From danno at umich.edu  Tue Jun  1 15:49:25 2010
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 15:49:25 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] [WLUG] building a nas device
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinqWZmFZeH0Kf8SJWuKIO10h0eddrBuqdv09WHQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4eaf1f5740f0228649079d41e608a9c7.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
	<20100531141703.GB93788@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<4C03E7E1.6020406@scalableinformatics.com>
	<20100601191534.GA55069@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<AANLkTinqWZmFZeH0Kf8SJWuKIO10h0eddrBuqdv09WHQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100601194924.GB55069@maniac.deathstar.org>

zfs is a filesystem, volume manager, and software raid all rolled
together.  it does full checksums on all data.  

it uses variable stripe width on its RAID5/6 variant, RAIDz/z2, so
it can avoid the RAID5 write hole and slow read-modify-write cycle
(notably, though, this comes at the expense of random read performance).

if you have super-important data or just a single disk, it can write
multiple copies.

snapshots are built in.

administration is a breeze.  

it can trivially make use of a fast device (ssd) as a read cache (L2ARC)
or write cache (ZIL).

it is awesome, although not without its warts.  

On Tue, Jun 01, 2010 at 03:24:46PM -0400, Ethan Allen wrote:
> Not to take this too far off topic but what makes ZFS an advantage of XFS? I
> have never used ZFS but since it was brought up here I thought I would ask.
> 
> On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 3:15 PM, Dan Pritts <danno at umich.edu> wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 12:46:25PM -0400, Joe Landman wrote:
> > > >Do not use RAID5 if you care about ALL of your data; you need double
> > > >redundancy (RAID6) with modern drives.  Why?  You will eventually
> > > >lose a drive.  During rebuild you are reasonably likely to have a
> > > >read error somewhere on another drive.  You may get lucky and this
> > > >is on free space, or it's data you decide you can live without
> > > >(e.g., if i lose one photo out of the 5000 i've taken, no big deal,
> > > >but if i lose them all i'd be sad).
> > >
> > > RAID6 or RAID10.
> >
> > with raid10 you still have a pretty good chance of data loss.
> >
> > http://blog.richardelling.com/2010/02/zfs-data-protection-comparison.html
> >
> > This is pretty much out of the realm of what the OP was looking for
> > though.
> >
> > > ZFS's future outside of commercial paid Solaris licenses is very much in
> > > doubt.
> >
> > one answer to this concern is that the existing code can't be taken
> > back; a freebsd system you build today will work just as well tomorrow.
> >
> > another is that it's possible oracle will give away zfs to gpl;
> > they are funding linux's btrfs.
> >
> > all that said it is certainly possible that future enhancements to
> > zfs will be proprietary.
> >
> > basically for carl's a single NAS this is not an issue.  i would
> > certainly be concerned before designing products around this though
> > :)
> >
> > danno
> > --
> > ***  Sent from linux-users at lugwash.org  ***  http://www.lugwash.org
> > to unsubscribe: `echo "unsubscribe" | mail linux-users-request at lugwash.org
> > `
> >

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From danno at umich.edu  Tue Jun  1 15:15:34 2010
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 15:15:34 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] [WLUG] building a nas device
In-Reply-To: <4C03E7E1.6020406@scalableinformatics.com>
References: <4eaf1f5740f0228649079d41e608a9c7.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
	<20100531141703.GB93788@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<4C03E7E1.6020406@scalableinformatics.com>
Message-ID: <20100601191534.GA55069@maniac.deathstar.org>

On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 12:46:25PM -0400, Joe Landman wrote:
> >Do not use RAID5 if you care about ALL of your data; you need double
> >redundancy (RAID6) with modern drives.  Why?  You will eventually
> >lose a drive.  During rebuild you are reasonably likely to have a
> >read error somewhere on another drive.  You may get lucky and this
> >is on free space, or it's data you decide you can live without
> >(e.g., if i lose one photo out of the 5000 i've taken, no big deal,
> >but if i lose them all i'd be sad).
> 
> RAID6 or RAID10.

with raid10 you still have a pretty good chance of data loss.

http://blog.richardelling.com/2010/02/zfs-data-protection-comparison.html

This is pretty much out of the realm of what the OP was looking for
though.  

> ZFS's future outside of commercial paid Solaris licenses is very much in 
> doubt.

one answer to this concern is that the existing code can't be taken
back; a freebsd system you build today will work just as well tomorrow.

another is that it's possible oracle will give away zfs to gpl;
they are funding linux's btrfs.

all that said it is certainly possible that future enhancements to
zfs will be proprietary.

basically for carl's a single NAS this is not an issue.  i would
certainly be concerned before designing products around this though
:)

danno


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Mon Jun  7 10:10:10 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 07:10:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Solaris 10 Priority Scheduling
Message-ID: <462713.81509.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi, 


We are facing a challenging issue.

We have performance issueson a multi CPU server. Our benchmark (sum of square-roots 1 - 1,000,000) runs 20 sec on a a multi cpu system. Yet it runs less than a sec on a single CPU system and on my desktop. 

When we found this we started to explore scheduling priorities.

If a process is running slow and needs to run faster on Solaris, what are odd options to tweek performance?
?
Where are SYS 60-99 processes assigned ?

David C. Lane



      

From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Mon Jun  7 11:01:21 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2010 11:01:21 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Solaris 10 Priority Scheduling
In-Reply-To: <462713.81509.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <462713.81509.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4C0D09C1.4070806@gmail.com>

David Lane wrote:
> Hi, 
> 
> 
> We are facing a challenging issue.
> 
> We have performance issueson a multi CPU server. Our benchmark (sum of square-roots 1 - 1,000,000) runs 20 sec on a a multi cpu system. Yet it runs less than a sec on a single CPU system and on my desktop. 
> 
> When we found this we started to explore scheduling priorities.
> 
> If a process is running slow and needs to run faster on Solaris, what are odd options to tweek performance?
>  
> Where are SYS 60-99 processes assigned ?
> 
> David C. Lane

I assume that this is on a system with ample CPU idle time
and the I/O channels are not saturated?


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Mon Jun  7 11:22:34 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 08:22:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Solaris 10 Priority Scheduling
In-Reply-To: <4C0D09C1.4070806@gmail.com>
References: <462713.81509.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4C0D09C1.4070806@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <97083.25583.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Yes there the other CPU's are idle. Yet we cant get the system to give a process more CPU resources, when nothing else is happening on the system.

David C. Lane

?



________________________________
From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Mon, June 7, 2010 11:01:21 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] OT: Solaris 10 Priority Scheduling

David Lane wrote:
> Hi, 
> 
> 
> We are facing a challenging issue.
> 
> We have performance issueson a multi CPU server. Our benchmark (sum of square-roots 1 - 1,000,000) runs 20 sec on a a multi cpu system. Yet it runs less than a sec on a single CPU system and on my desktop. 
> 
> When we found this we started to explore scheduling priorities.
> 
> If a process is running slow and needs to run faster on Solaris, what are odd options to tweek performance?
>? 
> Where are SYS 60-99 processes assigned ?
> 
> David C. Lane

I assume that this is on a system with ample CPU idle time
and the I/O channels are not saturated?
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      

From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Mon Jun  7 11:29:02 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2010 11:29:02 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Solaris 10 Priority Scheduling
In-Reply-To: <97083.25583.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <462713.81509.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<4C0D09C1.4070806@gmail.com>
	<97083.25583.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4C0D103E.8090901@gmail.com>

David Lane wrote:
> Yes there the other CPU's are idle. Yet we cant get the system to give a process more CPU resources, when nothing else is happening on the system.
> 

My bet is that the process is being migrated from core to core.

Solaris has a command to bind a process to one core, although it's
been too long since I used Solaris to remember exactly what command
that is.

To find that command, try these:

man -k cpu
man -k core
man -k bind


> David C. Lane
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Sent: Mon, June 7, 2010 11:01:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] OT: Solaris 10 Priority Scheduling
> 
> David Lane wrote:
>> Hi, 
>>
>>
>> We are facing a challenging issue.
>>
>> We have performance issueson a multi CPU server. Our benchmark (sum of square-roots 1 - 1,000,000) runs 20 sec on a a multi cpu system. Yet it runs less than a sec on a single CPU system and on my desktop. 
>>
>> When we found this we started to explore scheduling priorities.
>>
>> If a process is running slow and needs to run faster on Solaris, what are odd options to tweek performance?
>>   
>> Where are SYS 60-99 processes assigned ?
>>
>> David C. Lane
> 
> I assume that this is on a system with ample CPU idle time
> and the I/O channels are not saturated?
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Mon Jun  7 11:30:47 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2010 11:30:47 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Solaris 10 Priority Scheduling
In-Reply-To: <4C0D103E.8090901@gmail.com>
References: <462713.81509.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<4C0D09C1.4070806@gmail.com>
	<97083.25583.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4C0D103E.8090901@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C0D10A7.9000507@gmail.com>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> David Lane wrote:
>> Yes there the other CPU's are idle. Yet we cant get the system to give 
>> a process more CPU resources, when nothing else is happening on the 
>> system.
>>
> 
> My bet is that the process is being migrated from core to core.
> 
> Solaris has a command to bind a process to one core, although it's
> been too long since I used Solaris to remember exactly what command
> that is.
> 
> To find that command, try these:
> 
> man -k cpu
> man -k core
> man -k bind
> 


It appears to be the command "pbind"

<http://www.google.com/search?q=solaris+bind+process+cpu+OR+core&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=mozilla&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial>


> 
>> David C. Lane
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
>> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>> Sent: Mon, June 7, 2010 11:01:21 AM
>> Subject: Re: [mdlug] OT: Solaris 10 Priority Scheduling
>>
>> David Lane wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> We are facing a challenging issue.
>>>
>>> We have performance issueson a multi CPU server. Our benchmark (sum 
>>> of square-roots 1 - 1,000,000) runs 20 sec on a a multi cpu system. 
>>> Yet it runs less than a sec on a single CPU system and on my desktop.
>>> When we found this we started to explore scheduling priorities.
>>>
>>> If a process is running slow and needs to run faster on Solaris, what 
>>> are odd options to tweek performance?
>>>   Where are SYS 60-99 processes assigned ?
>>>
>>> David C. Lane
>>
>> I assume that this is on a system with ample CPU idle time
>> and the I/O channels are not saturated?



From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Mon Jun  7 11:38:01 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 08:38:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Solaris 10 Priority Scheduling
In-Reply-To: <4C0D10A7.9000507@gmail.com>
References: <462713.81509.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4C0D09C1.4070806@gmail.com>
	<97083.25583.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4C0D103E.8090901@gmail.com> <4C0D10A7.9000507@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <347697.22773.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

so with 24 cores can you set a side say 4 cores for a few server tasks?




________________________________
From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Mon, June 7, 2010 11:30:47 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] OT: Solaris 10 Priority Scheduling

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> David Lane wrote:
>> Yes there the other CPU's are idle. Yet we cant get the system to give 
>> a process more CPU resources, when nothing else is happening on the 
>> system.
>>
> 
> My bet is that the process is being migrated from core to core.
> 
> Solaris has a command to bind a process to one core, although it's
> been too long since I used Solaris to remember exactly what command
> that is.
> 
> To find that command, try these:
> 
> man -k cpu
> man -k core
> man -k bind
> 


It appears to be the command "pbind"

<http://www.google.com/search?q=solaris+bind+process+cpu+OR+core&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=mozilla&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial>


> 
>> David C. Lane
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
>> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>> Sent: Mon, June 7, 2010 11:01:21 AM
>> Subject: Re: [mdlug] OT: Solaris 10 Priority Scheduling
>>
>> David Lane wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> We are facing a challenging issue.
>>>
>>> We have performance issueson a multi CPU server. Our benchmark (sum 
>>> of square-roots 1 - 1,000,000) runs 20 sec on a a multi cpu system. 
>>> Yet it runs less than a sec on a single CPU system and on my desktop.
>>> When we found this we started to explore scheduling priorities.
>>>
>>> If a process is running slow and needs to run faster on Solaris, what 
>>> are odd options to tweek performance?
>>>? Where are SYS 60-99 processes assigned ?
>>>
>>> David C. Lane
>>
>> I assume that this is on a system with ample CPU idle time
>> and the I/O channels are not saturated?

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      

From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Mon Jun  7 11:43:47 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2010 11:43:47 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Solaris 10 Priority Scheduling
In-Reply-To: <347697.22773.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <462713.81509.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<4C0D09C1.4070806@gmail.com>	<97083.25583.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<4C0D103E.8090901@gmail.com>
	<4C0D10A7.9000507@gmail.com>
	<347697.22773.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4C0D13B3.3000206@gmail.com>

David Lane wrote:
> so with 24 cores can you set a side say 4 cores for a few server tasks?
> 

yes.

http://developers.sun.com/solaris/articles/solaris_processor.html
indicates to create a "processor set" using the parset command.

I think if you bind your benchmark process to a SINGLE core,
that you will get the fast speed again, because you won't
endure the overhead of the process being [wastefully in this
case] migrated from core to core to core to core ....


> ________________________________
> From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Sent: Mon, June 7, 2010 11:30:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] OT: Solaris 10 Priority Scheduling
> 
> Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>> David Lane wrote:
>>> Yes there the other CPU's are idle. Yet we cant get the system to give 
>>> a process more CPU resources, when nothing else is happening on the 
>>> system.
>>>
>> My bet is that the process is being migrated from core to core.
>>
>> Solaris has a command to bind a process to one core, although it's
>> been too long since I used Solaris to remember exactly what command
>> that is.
>>
>> To find that command, try these:
>>
>> man -k cpu
>> man -k core
>> man -k bind
>>
> 
> 
> It appears to be the command "pbind"
> 
> <http://www.google.com/search?q=solaris+bind+process+cpu+OR+core&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=mozilla&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial>
> 
> 
>>> David C. Lane
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
>>> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>>> Sent: Mon, June 7, 2010 11:01:21 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [mdlug] OT: Solaris 10 Priority Scheduling
>>>
>>> David Lane wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> We are facing a challenging issue.
>>>>
>>>> We have performance issueson a multi CPU server. Our benchmark (sum 
>>>> of square-roots 1 - 1,000,000) runs 20 sec on a a multi cpu system. 
>>>> Yet it runs less than a sec on a single CPU system and on my desktop.
>>>> When we found this we started to explore scheduling priorities.
>>>>
>>>> If a process is running slow and needs to run faster on Solaris, what 
>>>> are odd options to tweek performance?
>>>>   Where are SYS 60-99 processes assigned ?
>>>>
>>>> David C. Lane
>>> I assume that this is on a system with ample CPU idle time
>>> and the I/O channels are not saturated?
> 



From danno at umich.edu  Tue Jun  8 23:49:20 2010
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 23:49:20 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Solaris 10 Priority Scheduling
In-Reply-To: <462713.81509.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <462713.81509.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20100609034920.GA78633@maniac.deathstar.org>

you probably know this but just in case -

the ultrasparc t-series CPUs, the highly parallel ones, cores, have
limited floating-point performance.  IIRC each CPU has 8 cores, but
all 8 share a single floating-point unit.

if you're running a single copy of your benchmark on an otherwise
unloaded server, this shouldn't make any difference.

HTH

danno

On Mon, Jun 07, 2010 at 07:10:10AM -0700, David Lane wrote:
> Hi, 
> 
> 
> We are facing a challenging issue.
> 
> We have performance issueson a multi CPU server. Our benchmark (sum of square-roots 1 - 1,000,000) runs 20 sec on a a multi cpu system. Yet it runs less than a sec on a single CPU system and on my desktop. 
> 
> When we found this we started to explore scheduling priorities.
> 
> If a process is running slow and needs to run faster on Solaris, what are odd options to tweek performance?
> ?
> Where are SYS 60-99 processes assigned ?
> 
> David C. Lane
> 
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Wed Jun  9 13:23:20 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 10:23:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Solaris 10 Priority Scheduling
In-Reply-To: <20100609034920.GA78633@maniac.deathstar.org>
References: <462713.81509.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20100609034920.GA78633@maniac.deathstar.org>
Message-ID: <50762.76393.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

What I'm looking for now is getting the process to have more CPU resources.

How/Where would I assign a SYS 80 to a process?

David C. Lane 



________________________________
From: Dan Pritts <danno at umich.edu>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Tue, June 8, 2010 11:49:20 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] OT: Solaris 10 Priority Scheduling

you probably know this but just in case -

the ultrasparc t-series CPUs, the highly parallel ones, cores, have
limited floating-point performance.? IIRC each CPU has 8 cores, but
all 8 share a single floating-point unit.

if you're running a single copy of your benchmark on an otherwise
unloaded server, this shouldn't make any difference.

HTH

danno

On Mon, Jun 07, 2010 at 07:10:10AM -0700, David Lane wrote:
> Hi, 
> 
> 
> We are facing a challenging issue.
> 
> We have performance issueson a multi CPU server. Our benchmark (sum of square-roots 1 - 1,000,000) runs 20 sec on a a multi cpu system. Yet it runs less than a sec on a single CPU system and on my desktop. 
> 
> When we found this we started to explore scheduling priorities.
> 
> If a process is running slow and needs to run faster on Solaris, what are odd options to tweek performance?
> ?
> Where are SYS 60-99 processes assigned ?
> 
> David C. Lane
> 
> 
> 
>? ? ? 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      

From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Wed Jun  9 13:38:24 2010
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 13:38:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Solaris 10 Priority Scheduling
Message-ID: <21028048.1276105104889.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

David,

Not exactly an answer to your question, but I came across this page and thought it might be of some help.
http://www.c0t0d0s0.org/archives/4207-Less-known-Solaris-Features-Resource-Management-Part-4-Limiting-CPU-usage.html

-Mike

-----Original Message-----
>From: David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com>
>Sent: Jun 9, 2010 1:23 PM
>To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>Subject: Re: [mdlug] OT: Solaris 10 Priority Scheduling
>
>What I'm looking for now is getting the process to have more CPU resources.
>
>How/Where would I assign a SYS 80 to a process?
>
>David C. Lane 
>
>
>
>________________________________
>From: Dan Pritts <danno at umich.edu>
>To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>Sent: Tue, June 8, 2010 11:49:20 PM
>Subject: Re: [mdlug] OT: Solaris 10 Priority Scheduling
>
>you probably know this but just in case -
>
>the ultrasparc t-series CPUs, the highly parallel ones, cores, have
>limited floating-point performance.? IIRC each CPU has 8 cores, but
>all 8 share a single floating-point unit.
>
>if you're running a single copy of your benchmark on an otherwise
>unloaded server, this shouldn't make any difference.
>
>HTH
>
>danno
>
>On Mon, Jun 07, 2010 at 07:10:10AM -0700, David Lane wrote:
>> Hi, 
>> 
>> 
>> We are facing a challenging issue.
>> 
>> We have performance issueson a multi CPU server. Our benchmark (sum of square-roots 1 - 1,000,000) runs 20 sec on a a multi cpu system. Yet it runs less than a sec on a single CPU system and on my desktop. 
>> 
>> When we found this we started to explore scheduling priorities.
>> 
>> If a process is running slow and needs to run faster on Solaris, what are odd options to tweek performance?
>> ?
>> Where are SYS 60-99 processes assigned ?
>> 
>> David C. Lane
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>? ? ? 
>> _______________________________________________
>> mdlug mailing list
>> mdlug at mdlug.org
>> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>danno
>--
>dan pritts
>danno at umich.edu
>734-929-9770
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>
>
>      
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From gib at juno.com  Wed Jun  9 19:30:59 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 23:30:59 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] FW: Vmware/Linux Consultant Opportunity-Dearborn, MI
Message-ID: <20100609.193059.14029.0@webmail03.vgs.untd.com>



---------- Forwarded Message ----------
From: Ray Colby <Ray.Colby at us.logicalis.com>
To: "president at mdlug.org" <president at mdlug.org>
Subject: FW: Vmware/Linux Consultant Opportunity-Dearborn, MI
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 15:04:01 -0400

Hello,

I was forwarded your e-mail address form Dean Durant.  

My name is Ray Colby and I am a Senior Recruiter with Logicalis.  Logicalis
> is an international provider of integrated Information and Communications
> technology (ICT) solutions, delivering secure, converged computing and
> communications infrastructure and services. I saw your resume on Dice.com.
>
>
>
> I am looking for a VMware/Linux/Websphere consultant for a client in
> Dearborn, MI.  Our client needs assistance with performance related issues
> with their VMware/Linux environment. The assignment will be for 30 days.
>
>
>
> Do you happen to know anyone looking for an opportunity that matches this
> skill set?  The rate for this opportunity is very good.
>

***PLEASE NOTE THE NEW OFFICE ADDRESS, TELEPHONE NUMBER AND FAX NUMBER***
 
Ray Colby
Senior Recruiter
Logicalis, Inc.
34505 W. Twelve Mile Road, Suite 210
Farmington Hills, MI  48331
Tel: 248-957-5725
Cell: 248-252-0058
Fax: 248-957-5601
ray.colby at us.logicalis.com 
www.us.logicalis.com
 
This email may contain confidential information. If you received it in error, please delete it and notify the sender.

-----Original Message-----
From: Dean Durant [mailto:omvegan at gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 3:01 PM
To: Ray Colby
Subject: Re: Vmware/Linux Consultant Opportunity-Dearborn, MI

try president at mdlug.org

On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 2:56 PM, Ray Colby <Ray.Colby at us.logicalis.com> wrote:
> Hello Dean,
>
>
>
> My name is Ray Colby and I am a Senior Recruiter with Logicalis.? Logicalis
> is?an international provider of integrated Information and Communications
> technology (ICT) solutions, delivering secure, converged computing and
> communications infrastructure and services.?I saw your resume on Dice.com.
>
>
>
> I am looking for a VMware/Linux/Websphere consultant for a client in
> Dearborn, MI.? Our client needs assistance with performance related issues
> with their VMware/Linux environment. The assignment will be for 30 days.
>
>
>
> Do you happen to know anyone looking for an opportunity that matches this
> skill set?? The rate for this opportunity is very good.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Ray
>
>
>
>
>
> ***PLEASE NOTE THE NEW OFFICE ADDRESS, TELEPHONE NUMBER AND FAX NUMBER***
>
>
>
> Ray Colby
>
> Senior Recruiter
>
> Logicalis, Inc.
>
> 34505 W. Twelve Mile Road, Suite 210
>
> Farmington Hills, MI? 48331
>
> Tel: 248-957-5725
>
> Cell: 248-252-0058
>
> Fax: 248-957-5601
>
> ray.colby at us.logicalis.com
>
> www.us.logicalis.com
>
>
>
> This email may contain confidential information. If you received it in
> error, please delete it and notify the sender.
>
>

____________________________________________________________
iPads&#174; for only $22.58?
Breaking News: iPads are being auctioned at 95% off retail. Learn how!
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From relson at osagesoftware.com  Wed Jun  9 22:03:28 2010
From: relson at osagesoftware.com (David Relson)
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 22:03:28 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] WTB: used Sun SunRay
Message-ID: <20100609220328.345a8737@osage.osagesoftware.com>

'day,

I'm looking for a used Sun SunRay 1, 1G, or 2FS to be purchased in the
next day or so.  It needs to be working and, preferably, be inexpensive.

If you've got one, please contact me.

Thank you.
 
David


From gib at juno.com  Sat Jun 12 17:59:24 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 21:59:24 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] Target has the $50 IM tool called zipit - hack to run Linux
Message-ID: <20100612.175924.8482.0@webmail19.vgs.untd.com>


The Zipit will be the subject of next month's MDLUG meeting.

We were looking for another topic as well.  We thought we'd cover programming concepts (what is data typing, structured programming  . . .).

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "gib at juno.com" <gib at juno.com>
To: mdlug at mdlug.org
Subject: [mdlug] Target has the $50 IM tool called zipit - hack to run Linux
Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 14:44:27 GMT

 
I our meeting Saturday we saw some folks with a zipit.  A $50 device they got from Target intended for teen IM.  But they said they were able to run Linux on it. 
http://www.target.com/dp/B00115PR2O/ref=sc_qi_img_viewdetails?ie=UTF8&title=view%20full%20details
____________________________________________________________
Penny Stock Jumping 2000%
Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today!
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_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




From mark.stanislav at gmail.com  Tue Jun 15 11:03:48 2010
From: mark.stanislav at gmail.com (Mark Stanislav)
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 11:03:48 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Linux Systems Administrator Opportunity
Message-ID: <AANLkTikYj6jb4bgp8-Ey0z2q88ndnXtQcH15N6hD4B5W@mail.gmail.com>

I was given the go-ahead by the recruiter to pass this on places. Hope
someone is interested!

-Mark

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Carmack, Carolyn <CarolynCarmack at technisource.com>
Date: Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 4:29 PM
Subject: Linux Systems Administrator Opportunity.
To: "mark.stanislav at gmail.com" <mark.stanislav at gmail.com>


Hi Mark,

My name is Carolyn Carmack and I am a Recruiter with Technisource in
Troy, MI.? I am currently working with a?company in Troy, MI that is
looking for a Linux Systems Administrator.? I ran across your resume
and would like to discuss this opportunity with you.? I have attached
a copy of the job description for your review.? Please take a look at
it and let me know if you are interested.

Thanks and have a great evening.

Carolyn Carmack
Administrator

Technisource
A Subsidiary of SFN Group

100 E. Big Beaver Suite 1000
Troy, MI 48083
Phone: 248-619-3713
Fax:???? 248-619-3919
carolyncarmack at technisource.com
www.technisource.com
www.sfngroup.com
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From mark.stanislav at gmail.com  Tue Jun 15 14:55:30 2010
From: mark.stanislav at gmail.com (Mark Stanislav)
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 14:55:30 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Linux Systems Administrator Opportunity
Message-ID: <AANLkTilm9P3-wb6y5DFIeDtsGt_B7EIgErwTc37DgRWK@mail.gmail.com>

...Apparently I am popular this week... Here's another one!

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Rob Geer <robg at mgmtbsolutions.com>
Date: Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 2:32 PM
Subject: Linux Systems Administrator Opportunity
To: mark.stanislav at gmail.com


Hi Mark,



I am currently working with a client in Ann Arbor who is looking for a
Linux Systems Administrator.? I was told you may have some contacts
interested in a possible opportunity and wanted to see if you might be
able to point me in the right direction.? I am including the job
description below and more information is available on our website at
www.mgmtbsolutions.com.

Requirements:


3-7 years hands-on experience in technical operations as a Linux
sysadmin (RedHat/Centos/Fedora-distributions preferred. Other flavors
a plus)
Rock solid Linux systems administration troubleshooting, automatic
scheduling (cron/at/GNUbatch), monitoring (Nagios), system
configuration, tuning & optimization, performance analysis, backups
and recovery
Expertise in Perl and shell scripting. Knowledge of Python or Ruby a plus
Basic SQL skills (PL/SQL). Relational database administration
experience (e.g. Oracle, PostgreSQL or MySQL).



Desired Skills:


Experience with high volume internet applications highly desired
Monitoring tools: Nagios, BigBrother, Splunk, Gomez, Keynote, Nimbus, Sitescope
Knowledge of Email Deliverability, Email Service Providers, spam
filtering technologies, DNS blacklists, feedback loops, whitelisting
and email protocols.
Commercial experience on administering scalable, multi-tenant,
on-demand SaaS solutions using open source technologies: Web (Apache,
Tomcat), Mail/SMTP (Postfix, sendmail, qmail), DNS/Bind, Perl, vsftpd
Familiarity with Java/JDK, Ant, Bugzilla, Subversion (SVN),
CruiseControl, rsync, ssh, Netapp (NFS), Cognos, screen, make
Networking Experience - TCP/IP, administration of networking hardware
(Cisco, SonicWall, etc.), network monitoring, routing, load Balancing,
firewalls

Thank you,



Here's to Valuing Relationships and Delivering Results,

Rob?Geer

Phone:?(616)?855-6315? ?? Email: robg at mgmtbsolutions.com
Web: http://www.mgmtbsolutions.com
LinkedIn Profile:?www.linkedin.com/in/robgeer
Twitter:? www.twitter.com/mgmtbsolutions
Facebook:? www.facebook.com/mgmtbsolutions


From gib at juno.com  Thu Jun 17 15:29:57 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 19:29:57 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] Free: phone wire
Message-ID: <20100617.152957.21043.0@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>

Does anyone need any phone wire?  A guy on my work team just sold his house. So, he is cleaning out the stuff.  He has a "half a spool" (a spool is 1,000 feet) of "silver lead" phone wire.  He said this is the good quality wire not the cheap beige color type.

____________________________________________________________
Get Free Email with Video Mail & Video Chat!
http://www.juno.com/freeemail?refcd=JUTAGOUT1FREM0210


From tony at bemushosting.com  Thu Jun 17 19:21:19 2010
From: tony at bemushosting.com (Tony Bemus)
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 19:21:19 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Free: phone wire
In-Reply-To: <20100617.152957.21043.0@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20100617.152957.21043.0@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <1276816879.2624.0.camel@tony-laptop>

is it cat 3 or cat 5?


On Thu, 2010-06-17 at 19:29 +0000, gib at juno.com wrote:
> Does anyone need any phone wire?  A guy on my work team just sold his house. So, he is cleaning out the stuff.  He has a "half a spool" (a spool is 1,000 feet) of "silver lead" phone wire.  He said this is the good quality wire not the cheap beige color type.
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> Get Free Email with Video Mail & Video Chat!
> http://www.juno.com/freeemail?refcd=JUTAGOUT1FREM0210
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




From gib at juno.com  Thu Jun 17 19:58:08 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 23:58:08 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] [Discuss] Re:  Free: phone wire
Message-ID: <20100617.195808.9731.1@webmail05.vgs.untd.com>


It's phone line not network.

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Tony Bemus <tony at bemushosting.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Cc: discuss at mug.org
Subject: [Discuss] Re: [mdlug] Free: phone wire
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 19:21:19 -0400

is it cat 3 or cat 5?


On Thu, 2010-06-17 at 19:29 +0000, gib at juno.com wrote:
> Does anyone need any phone wire?  A guy on my work team just sold his house. So, he is cleaning out the stuff.  He has a "half a spool" (a spool is 1,000 feet) of "silver lead" phone wire.  He said this is the good quality wire not the cheap beige color type.
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> Get Free Email with Video Mail & Video Chat!
> http://www.juno.com/freeemail?refcd=JUTAGOUT1FREM0210
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
Discuss at mug.org
http://www.mug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss


____________________________________________________________
Online Auction Tricks EXPOSED
Reporter Uncovers Shocking Online Auction Tricks!
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From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Thu Jun 17 21:48:35 2010
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 21:48:35 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] [Discuss] Re: Free: phone wire
In-Reply-To: <20100617.195808.9731.1@webmail05.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20100617.195808.9731.1@webmail05.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTilwu09BIx-C1uXnawyFkERX42nJD3OGyg22lhKG@mail.gmail.com>

--- Gib wrote:

>>> Does anyone need any phone wire?

>> is it cat 3 or cat 5?

> It's phone line, not network.

Actually, "Cat 3" applies to multiple-twisted-pair phone wire.  It
would be marked as such.

~~ Michael Rudas
   My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
   My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/protop
   http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey


From gib at juno.com  Wed Jun 23 20:04:36 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 00:04:36 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] FYI: Learning in the Linux Community
Message-ID: <20100623.200436.8724.0@webmail04.vgs.untd.com>


FYI

Please note: forwarded message attached

From: Don Davis <dd1263 at txstate.edu>
To: president at mdlug.org
Subject: Learning in the Linux Community
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 02:59:16 +0000


____________________________________________________________
TODAY: iPads for $23.74?
SPECIAL REPORT: iPads are being auctioned for an incredible 80% off!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4c22a13bbce6a1d3aast02vuc
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Subject: Learning in the Linux Community
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 02:59:16 +0000
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From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Thu Jun 24 14:32:09 2010
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 14:32:09 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] New distro, worth a look
Message-ID: <AANLkTim9PTkwKmcaKiL6NgyvrWSp1dThYwO4lPRIr55n@mail.gmail.com>

I just ran into a new-to-me distro that seems worthy.  It's called Xange:
http://xange.sf.net

It's based on Fedora with KDE 4.4 and the live CD looks pretty
complete, including VLC and Flash.  The ISO is nominally a bit large
for a standard 700MB CD, but it overburned with no problems using
ImgBurn under Windows (my favorite CD/DVD burning software for that
platform), so I suppose that K3B and Brasero should work fine, too.

~~ Michael Rudas
   My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
   My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/protop
   http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey


From danno at umich.edu  Fri Jun 25 00:09:52 2010
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 00:09:52 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] New distro, worth a look
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTim9PTkwKmcaKiL6NgyvrWSp1dThYwO4lPRIr55n@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTim9PTkwKmcaKiL6NgyvrWSp1dThYwO4lPRIr55n@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100625040952.GA69413@maniac.deathstar.org>

How is it better than standard fedora?  

On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 02:32:09PM -0400, Michael Rudas wrote:
> I just ran into a new-to-me distro that seems worthy.  It's called Xange:
> http://xange.sf.net
> 
> It's based on Fedora with KDE 4.4 and the live CD looks pretty
> complete, including VLC and Flash.  The ISO is nominally a bit large
> for a standard 700MB CD, but it overburned with no problems using
> ImgBurn under Windows (my favorite CD/DVD burning software for that
> platform), so I suppose that K3B and Brasero should work fine, too.
> 
> ~~ Michael Rudas
>    My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
>    My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/protop
>    http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From tesral at wowway.com  Fri Jun 25 00:15:29 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 00:15:29 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Webserver
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTim9PTkwKmcaKiL6NgyvrWSp1dThYwO4lPRIr55n@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTim9PTkwKmcaKiL6NgyvrWSp1dThYwO4lPRIr55n@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C242D61.7050006@wowway.com>

I am considering setting up one of my older computers as an Intranet web
server   Anything I need to do (other than obviously run Apache) and
connect it to the network? 

I'm not looking for Internet accessibility.  (Can't afford the fixed IP
for starters.)

I have never run a web server or configured one.  Yes, I'm still using
openSUSE and don't plan to stop.


-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Those persons, or societies, easily offended need to be offended until they get over it.
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From gib at juno.com  Fri Jun 25 07:39:29 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 11:39:29 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] [Discuss] detroitnet.org
Message-ID: <20100625.073929.2165.0@webmail01.vgs.untd.com>

FYI

---------- Forwarded Message ----------
From: "Jorge O. Castro" <jorge at ubuntu.com>
To: "For discussing Unix/Linux related topics" <discuss at mug.org>, Ubuntu Michigan Local Community Team <ubuntu-us-mi at lists.ubuntu.com>
Subject: [Discuss] detroitnet.org
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 22:26:56 -0400

Hi everyone,

I ran into this on twitter, this group called detroitnet.org. It's
basically a group of people who meet together to find jobs for people,
and to find people for jobs. Odd right? How could a geek group like
this exist without us knowing about it? Surely if someone was looking
for Linux geeks they would know to check out LUGs right? Well, maybe
not so much.

So on IRC I mentioned it to Craig and Rick and some others that I
might stop by and check it out, and it seemed really odd, it sounds
like the typical recruitment show thing or some lame "job fair" crap.
I decided to check it out today;  so I conned Ken from OU to come
along because I didn't want to go by myself, so we went down to
BlackFinn in Royal Oak to see what it's like. I met the guy who
started it, and as it ends up, the entire thing is an anti-"jobs fair
crap" affair. I met some serious people from serious companies looking
for serious Linux admins. I think members from LUGs around the area
could find this kind of thing useful to find good Linux work, and from
my initial meeting, it looks like there is plenty of demand for Linux
work out there.

Ok so, there were some headhunters, but overall it wasn't so bad.
They're apparently they're big on LinkedIn (I don't use it myself),
but there seemed to be plenty of interest for people with Linux
experience, so I thought I'd pass it along to people. I was frankly
shocked at the people looking for Linux talent who had never heard of
any of the local LUGs, so I think this is an excellent opportunity to
reach out to other geek groups in Detroit.

Unfortunately they seemed to be tied in to LinkedIn, however they have
a blog at http://www.detroitnet.org and the guy who runs it (Dave
Phillips) seems to be a solid dude running the whole thing. We should
collectively probably try to get these people more tied into the local
bits, I plan to do my part by participating in their events more (and
damn, I didn't bring my mug.org cards!)

Please feel free to cross post this to mdlug and washlug mailing lists...

--
jorge
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
Discuss at mug.org
http://www.mug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
____________________________________________________________
Refinance Now 4.0% FIXED!
$160,000 Mortgage for $633/mo. Free. No Obligation. Get 4 Quotes!
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From gib at juno.com  Fri Jun 25 11:11:20 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 15:11:20 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] [Discuss] detroitnet.org
Message-ID: <20100625.111120.29805.0@webmail24.vgs.untd.com>

I see their next event is a "Pink Slip Party" - Cool idea.  This will be July 15th at the Novi Post Bar. 

I think I may show up even though I have a job just for the fun of it. Or, you know, to promote the MDLUG.org group.

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Jorge O. Castro" <jorge at ubuntu.com>
To: "For discussing Unix/Linux related topics" <discuss at mug.org>, Ubuntu Michigan Local Community Team <ubuntu-us-mi at lists.ubuntu.com>
Subject: [Discuss] detroitnet.org
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 22:26:56 -0400

Hi everyone,

I ran into this on twitter, this group called detroitnet.org. It's
basically a group of people who meet together to find jobs for people,
and to find people for jobs. Odd right? How could a geek group like
this exist without us knowing about it? Surely if someone was looking
for Linux geeks they would know to check out LUGs right? Well, maybe
not so much.

So on IRC I mentioned it to Craig and Rick and some others that I
might stop by and check it out, and it seemed really odd, it sounds
like the typical recruitment show thing or some lame "job fair" crap.
I decided to check it out today;  so I conned Ken from OU to come
along because I didn't want to go by myself, so we went down to
BlackFinn in Royal Oak to see what it's like. I met the guy who
started it, and as it ends up, the entire thing is an anti-"jobs fair
crap" affair. I met some serious people from serious companies looking
for serious Linux admins. I think members from LUGs around the area
could find this kind of thing useful to find good Linux work, and from
my initial meeting, it looks like there is plenty of demand for Linux
work out there.

Ok so, there were some headhunters, but overall it wasn't so bad.
They're apparently they're big on LinkedIn (I don't use it myself),
but there seemed to be plenty of interest for people with Linux
experience, so I thought I'd pass it along to people. I was frankly
shocked at the people looking for Linux talent who had never heard of
any of the local LUGs, so I think this is an excellent opportunity to
reach out to other geek groups in Detroit.

Unfortunately they seemed to be tied in to LinkedIn, however they have
a blog at http://www.detroitnet.org and the guy who runs it (Dave
Phillips) seems to be a solid dude running the whole thing. We should
collectively probably try to get these people more tied into the local
bits, I plan to do my part by participating in their events more (and
damn, I didn't bring my mug.org cards!)

Please feel free to cross post this to mdlug and washlug mailing lists...

--
jorge
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
Discuss at mug.org
http://www.mug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
____________________________________________________________
Penny Stock Jumping 2000%
Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4c24c74e6de33503c50st04vuc

From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Fri Jun 25 11:31:54 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 11:31:54 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Webserver
In-Reply-To: <4C242D61.7050006@wowway.com>
References: <AANLkTim9PTkwKmcaKiL6NgyvrWSp1dThYwO4lPRIr55n@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C242D61.7050006@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <4C24CBEA.8010901@gmail.com>

Garry Stahl wrote:
> I am considering setting up one of my older computers as an Intranet web
> server   Anything I need to do (other than obviously run Apache) and
> connect it to the network? 
> 
> I'm not looking for Internet accessibility.  (Can't afford the fixed IP
> for starters.)
> 

If you want internet accessibility, configure your router to forward
all http requests to the 192.169.x.y IP that you assign to it.
[all 192.168....  addresses are never routable over the general
internet, as they are reserved space for private networks, such
as any household network].

> I have never run a web server or configured one.  Yes, I'm still using
> openSUSE and don't plan to stop.
> 
> 




From jjn at nuge.com  Fri Jun 25 20:33:16 2010
From: jjn at nuge.com (Jay Nugent)
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 20:33:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] MM: Youtube Wins - MP3tunes (and Apple?) Cheer (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.1006252033020.877-100000@home.nuge.com>


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 12:03:41 -0700
From: Michael Robertson <noreply at michaelrobertson.com>
To: jjn at nuge.com
Subject: MM: Youtube Wins - MP3tunes (and Apple?) Cheer

If this message is not displaying properly, visit www.michaelrobertson.com to launch it in your browser.

---------------------------------
Youtube Wins - MP3tunes (and Apple?) Cheer
---------------------------------

Youtube prevailed [1] in their billion dollar battle with Viacom who had accused them of copyright infringement. While Google (Youtube's parent), is surely pleased so are others who have similar services or are contemplating them. Here's some reasons to cheer this new legal development:

The law gives responsible net companies protection from copyright liability.

Youtube's defense is a law called the DMCA [2] which protects companies on the net who engage in fundamental operations like caching data, operating search engines and storing material for users. They get this protection if they act responsibly by responding to takedown notices sent to them. This ruling affirms that words in the law are clear and they mean what they say.

All arguments about why Youtube wasn't protected were soundly rejected.

Viacom complained that Youtube does replication, transmittal and display which are not "storage". The Judge found that Viacom was defining "storage" too narrowly and that "providing access to information and material" was "basic, vital and salutary function". [He didn't explicitly say but he implied that storage would be meaningless if you couldn't retrieve the information once stored.]

Viacom said that Youtube didn't remove repeat infringers but the court found their policies to be reasonable.

Viacom stated that Youtube received a financial benefit directly attributed to the infringing activity but the Judge expounded that Youtube had to know of a "particular case" of infringing activity which they did not and therefore they did not receive a direct benefit.

Viacom protested that Youtube removes only the material in a takedown notice and not other clips that might infringe the same work. The Judge quoted extensively how takedown requests must include a URL or other specific information to locate the work.

West coast and East coast courts have reached nearly identical conclusions.

The Youtube case closely mirrors the Veoh ruling which involved a video hosting site based in San Diego. Universal Music Group sued Veoh for copyright infringement for hosting video files and Veoh used as their defense the DMCA. The Judge found in Veoh's favor [3] in the 9th district (covering California). The Youtube case was in the 2nd district (covering New York) so there's similar thinking across the country. In fact the NY case cited the Veoh case 9 times.

More positive precedence for other net companies (like MP3tunes) accused of copyright infringement.

Major record label EMI is accusing my company MP3tunes of copyright infringement for both our cloud music storage and our search engine Sideload.com [4]. EMI's arguments parallel Viacom's against Youtube. Since we're in the same court house as the Youtube case we can now reference the Youtube ruling in our case which will bolster our position.

Others considering cloud music and video have been reticent but should now be emboldened.

I recently got a call from a reporter who was working on a story about how the legal uncertainty around music and video lockers was preventing many companies from investing in this area. That's understandable given the pending suits but the Youtube ruling adds clarity to the picture. I expect to see several new entrants - perhaps even Apple who needs a cloud music service to get music to all of their i devices without cabling up to the aging PC as an intermediary as they do now.

Appeals are on the horizon.

Precedence is definitely building with the Veoh victory [3] and now Youtube's triumph [1]. However, the losing side in both cases has vowed to appeal. UMG has filed the initial appellate brief [5] but it was rejected as too long and they are in the process of refiling a shortened version. One would hope the appellate court has a similar analysis of these issues. With so much at stake for technology companies and media companies it's not unreasonable to project that one of these cases ends up in front of the US Supreme Court.

MP3tunes case filings are due in August, ruling later this year on personal cloud music?

After about 3 years we're nearly at a stage where the Judge gets an opportunity to hand down a ruling in the MP3tunes case (similar to what the Judge did with Youtube and Veoh). EMI has consistently asked for delays which has elongated the process (and made it more expensive). I think they hoped that it would exhaust our conviction or money as it often has with small digital music companies forcing a crushing settlement (imeem) or shutdown/bankruptcy (multiply, seeqpod). The delay has not shaken our resolve. We'll continue to battle for the right for personal cloud music. Thanks to all the MP3tunes customers who support us.

--MR
michael at michaelrobertson.com

p.s. - MP3tunes is now offering 10GB free lockers. Sign-up on the invite list [6] to get yours.

---------------------------------
Links in this edition:
---------------------------------

1. http://www.scribd.com/doc/33505175/Youtube-Wins-Case-Against-Viacom
2. http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html#512
3. http://www.scribd.com/doc/9746279/UMG-v-Veoh-PSJ-Order
4. http://www.sideload.com/
5. http://www.scribd.com/doc/32546835/UMG-v-Veoh-9th-Opening-Brief
6. http://www.mp3tunes.com/invite

To discuss this topic with others, click here! http://michaelrobertson.yuku.com/topic/453


The views expressed herein are those of Michael Robertson and do not necessarily reflect the views of any of his affiliated companies.

This email was sent to jjn at nuge.com. Please be sure to use this email address when updating your mailing list options. If you do not wish to receive further communications you may change your mailing list options by going to http://michaelrobertson.com/manage.php 

Please do not reply to this email. To get help, please visit http://michaelrobertson.com/contact.php


We are located at 5960 Cornerstone Ct. Suite 100, San Diego, CA, 92121


All company and product names may be the trademarks of their respective owners.
(c) 2010. All rights reserved. 



From elcarew at sbcglobal.net  Sat Jun 26 09:30:27 2010
From: elcarew at sbcglobal.net (Evan Carew)
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2010 09:30:27 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Webserver
In-Reply-To: <4C24CBEA.8010901@gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTim9PTkwKmcaKiL6NgyvrWSp1dThYwO4lPRIr55n@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C242D61.7050006@wowway.com> <4C24CBEA.8010901@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C2600F3.2020107@sbcglobal.net>

Aaron,

If you want a fixed IP, do what many of us do, and go to one of those
dynamic DNS services. They'll provide you with a DNS listing for about
15.00 per year. Then, all you do, is have your router communicate with
it so your most current IP address is kept up to date in your listing.
Most routers have this as an option.


On 06/25/2010 11:31 AM, Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> Garry Stahl wrote:
>   
>> I am considering setting up one of my older computers as an Intranet web
>> server   Anything I need to do (other than obviously run Apache) and
>> connect it to the network? 
>>
>> I'm not looking for Internet accessibility.  (Can't afford the fixed IP
>> for starters.)
>>
>>     
>   



From raymond.s.mclaughlin at gmail.com  Sat Jun 26 16:19:20 2010
From: raymond.s.mclaughlin at gmail.com (Raymond S McLaughlin)
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2010 16:19:20 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] MM: Youtube Wins - MP3tunes (and Apple?) Cheer (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.1006252033020.877-100000@home.nuge.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.1006252033020.877-100000@home.nuge.com>
Message-ID: <4C2660C8.9020907@gmail.com>

Yay!
<SNIP>


From carl at carltm.com  Sun Jun 27 07:12:56 2010
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 07:12:56 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Webserver
In-Reply-To: <4C242D61.7050006@wowway.com>
References: <AANLkTim9PTkwKmcaKiL6NgyvrWSp1dThYwO4lPRIr55n@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C242D61.7050006@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <37d83cf0d85acd20739d38abc6985f2b.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

Garry Stahl wrote:
> I am considering setting up one of my older computers as an Intranet web
> server   Anything I need to do (other than obviously run Apache) and
> connect it to the network?

That's pretty much it, unless you want to give others the
ability to manage files or if you need other components
such as php, mysql or ssl.  If you're running a firewall
just check that port 80 is open.

> I'm not looking for Internet accessibility.  (Can't afford the fixed IP
> for starters.)

There are some inexpensive web hosting sites if you want
to do that.

> I have never run a web server or configured one.  Yes, I'm still using
> openSUSE and don't plan to stop.

OpenSUSE should have everything you need to get it going.
Good luck!

c




From petertheplumber at att.net  Mon Jun 28 16:48:33 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 16:48:33 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] What Distro f/Asus T91MT Touchscreen w/GMA500 Chip
Message-ID: <20100628164833.60fef7f3@Nokia-N800-43-7>

Hi Everyone,
    Has anyone gotten single touch touch screen working on an Asus T91(MT)? I've been trying to get UNR  9.10 working to my satisfaction on one with a GMA500 chip and I get close but no cigar. I got the touchscreen working but then found out I can't suspend with a mounted sd card, and that's where I had /swap. I reinstalled putting /swap on the ssd  but now wireless won't wake up from suspend even with the backport modules. I'm okay with the low resolution  for now, but not with the slow as mollasses UNR menu. I've seen tantalizing references to Mandriva coming with support for the GMA500, but not evtouch. Could be all I have to do is install it from from the repo's? Of course there's openSUSE to consider, but I haven't looked real hard.  I'm ready to trade the finger friendly UNR menu for anything that works. I  can allways supersize the toolbar. Or do I simply need to pull on my tinfoil hat tighter? Anyone care to comment?

Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber
Sent from a mobile Internet Tablet


From petertheplumber at att.net  Mon Jun 28 16:57:02 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 16:57:02 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Intel GMA500 No Love f/Linux
Message-ID: <20100628165702.0902f28b@Nokia-N800-43-7>

    How Intel can put out something like the GMA500 chip; while working
    on Moblin and now Meego; is beyond me. What a mess!
<http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/how-kick-your-friends-face-gma500>
<http://forums.opensuse.org/news/tech-news/424370-warning-please-don-t-buy-intel-gma500.html>
-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber
Sent from a mobile Internet Tablet


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Mon Jun 28 18:11:48 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 18:11:48 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Intel GMA500 No Love f/Linux
In-Reply-To: <20100628165702.0902f28b@Nokia-N800-43-7>
References: <20100628165702.0902f28b@Nokia-N800-43-7>
Message-ID: <4C291E24.1090003@gmail.com>

Peter Bart wrote:
>     How Intel can put out something like the GMA500 chip; while working
>     on Moblin and now Meego; is beyond me. What a mess!
> <http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/how-kick-your-friends-face-gma500>
> <http://forums.opensuse.org/news/tech-news/424370-warning-please-don-t-buy-intel-gma500.html>

Intel's strategy has always been "if you can't make a better
CPU than the competition [cyrix, AMD, etc.], then muddy the
waters and confuse the customers."


From jbroughton at twmi.rr.com  Mon Jun 28 20:21:56 2010
From: jbroughton at twmi.rr.com (Jim Broughton)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 20:21:56 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] KDE 4
Message-ID: <4C293CA4.1000608@twmi.rr.com>

I just recently installed Slackware 13.1 and have my second look
at the KDE 4 series desktop. I am appalled at what I see.
After 3 years thats all they have to show. I think that they should have
gone with a dual track, refining 3.5 while putting 4 into usable shape. 
While
KDE 4  looks pretty it is harder to configure than the older 3.5 series
I was used to under Slack 12.2. It lacks a lot the programs that
were available under 3.5. The default menu system just plain sucks.
I guess their objective was to dumb it down a bit for the normal user 
but at the
same time the fallout has been that a power user is left with a system that
just plain is not fun to use or configure.
I have kept in mind that Slackware does a minimal amount of
configuration work on the desktop software so that what you see is pretty
much what the KDE team released. I was so annoyed by it I downgraded
(upgraded?) my Laptop to the XFCE desktop. I will probably have to
compile/build KDE 3.5 for it.  Anyone else here using KDE 4 for
your desktop? Opinions?


Jim



From jbroughton at twmi.rr.com  Mon Jun 28 20:29:29 2010
From: jbroughton at twmi.rr.com (Jim Broughton)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 20:29:29 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] [MDLUG] KDE 4
Message-ID: <4C293E69.1090104@twmi.rr.com>

I just recently installed Slackware 13.1 and have my second look
at the KDE 4 series desktop. I am appalled at what I see.
After 3 years thats all they have to show. I think that they should have
gone with a dual track, refining 3.5 while putting 4 into usable shape.
While
KDE 4  looks pretty it is harder to configure than the older 3.5 series
I was used to under Slack 12.2. It lacks a lot the programs that
were available under 3.5. The default menu system just plain sucks.
I guess their objective was to dumb it down a bit for the normal user
but at the
same time the fallout has been that a power user is left with a system that
just plain is not fun to use or configure.
I have kept in mind that Slackware does a minimal amount of
configuration work on the desktop software so that what you see is pretty
much what the KDE team released. I was so annoyed by it I downgraded
(upgraded?) my Laptop to the XFCE desktop. I will probably have to
compile/build KDE 3.5 for it.  Anyone else here using KDE 4 for
your desktop? Opinions?


Jim




From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Jun 28 20:34:36 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 20:34:36 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] KDE 4
In-Reply-To: <4C293CA4.1000608@twmi.rr.com>
References: <4C293CA4.1000608@twmi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTilVu3nT3inw3uMalh4qQfCfUmpfU3G1jIij_1zr@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 8:21 PM, Jim Broughton <jbroughton at twmi.rr.com> wrote:
> I was so annoyed by it I downgraded
> (upgraded?) my Laptop to the XFCE desktop. I will probably have to
> compile/build KDE 3.5 for it. ?Anyone else here using KDE 4 for
> your desktop? Opinions?
>

My mother was using KDE 3.5 (since Mandrake) and when I updated it
Kubuntu 9.04 (Jaunty Jackalope) she didn't like it.  I changed the
desktop to XFCE and she's happy now.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Jun 28 20:36:49 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 20:36:49 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] KDE 4
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTilVu3nT3inw3uMalh4qQfCfUmpfU3G1jIij_1zr@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4C293CA4.1000608@twmi.rr.com>
	<AANLkTilVu3nT3inw3uMalh4qQfCfUmpfU3G1jIij_1zr@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTils6USq93UIDxcJEPLjBo52Pfv-7LIGmlPDFh84@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 8:34 PM, Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com> wrote:
> My mother was using KDE 3.5 (since Mandrake) and when I updated it
> Kubuntu 9.04 (Jaunty Jackalope) she didn't like it. ?I changed the
> desktop to XFCE and she's happy now.
>

For the record, I use Gnome on Ubuntu.  It was the default when I
switched form Mandriva.  I've found it easier to use.  I'm a power
user but I don't like to spend a lot of time tweaking a desktop for
marginal increases in productivity.


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Mon Jun 28 22:37:30 2010
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 22:37:30 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] KDE 4
In-Reply-To: <4C293CA4.1000608@twmi.rr.com>
References: <4C293CA4.1000608@twmi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTilSFTSJT_6oX5lDjlhU60PXCDspSG1Rl1YqaNRP@mail.gmail.com>

--- Jim Broughton wrote:

> I just recently installed Slackware 13.1 and have my second look
> at the KDE 4 series desktop. I am appalled at what I see.

What rev level of KDE 4?  Current is 4.4.3 -- earlier versions are not
as polished -- but, frankly, I like KDE 4 just fine and prefer it over
GNOME.  I use it every day, just as I have used every version of KDE 3
from v3.0 forward.

Is it perfect? No, but I am learning to tweak it to suit my needs.
Progress IS progress, after all.

~~ Michael Rudas
   My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
   My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/protop
   http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Mon Jun 28 23:04:15 2010
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 23:04:15 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Intel GMA500 No Love f/Linux
In-Reply-To: <20100628165702.0902f28b@Nokia-N800-43-7>
References: <20100628165702.0902f28b@Nokia-N800-43-7>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinF8cfE0vU1glSs3MwP4cdGg2NM0onvCEp0-OOV@mail.gmail.com>

--- Peter Bart wrote:

> How Intel can put out something like the GMA500 chip; while working
> on Moblin and now Meego; is beyond me. What a mess!

This kind of thing is one of the many reasons that I use and recommend
AMD instead.  I've NEVER trusted Intel in the 30+ years I've worked
with CPUs.  I do realize that most current netbooks use either Intel
or ARM variants (including the upcoming nVidia Tegra series) but there
are AMD-based netbooks and tablets on the way.

~~ Michael Rudas
   My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
   My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/protop
   http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Mon Jun 28 23:33:18 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 23:33:18 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] KDE 4
In-Reply-To: <4C293CA4.1000608@twmi.rr.com>
References: <4C293CA4.1000608@twmi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <4C29697E.2010802@gmail.com>

Jim Broughton wrote:
> I just recently installed Slackware 13.1 and have my second look
> at the KDE 4 series desktop. I am appalled at what I see.
> After 3 years thats all they have to show. I think that they should have
> gone with a dual track, refining 3.5 while putting 4 into usable shape. 
> While
> KDE 4  looks pretty it is harder to configure than the older 3.5 series
> I was used to under Slack 12.2. It lacks a lot the programs that
> were available under 3.5. The default menu system just plain sucks.
> I guess their objective was to dumb it down a bit for the normal user 
> but at the
> same time the fallout has been that a power user is left with a system that
> just plain is not fun to use or configure.
> I have kept in mind that Slackware does a minimal amount of
> configuration work on the desktop software so that what you see is pretty
> much what the KDE team released. I was so annoyed by it I downgraded
> (upgraded?) my Laptop to the XFCE desktop. I will probably have to
> compile/build KDE 3.5 for it.  Anyone else here using KDE 4 for
> your desktop? Opinions?

project leader Aaron Segio is a pathological liar, and I will never trust
ANYTHING associated with this man.

For instance, the KDE team propaganda, lead by Segio, state
that KDE4 was a complete rewrite from the bottom up -- this
being the excuse for normal desktop interactions which we have
all come to know and love in KDE 3.5..

...and yet segio (too cool for capital letters) stated on his
blog words to the effect of "finally, after a lot of work, I've
ripped all the desktop icons code out of KDE4" 

What code is there to "rip out" if their story that they
were "building from the ground up" were true, and they were
not re-using KDE 3.5 code.

Additionally, many of the photos that the man PUTS ON HIS
OWN website indicate a total jack*** with a completely
flippant attitude.

KDE is becoming the NetBSD of the Linux world. :-(


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Jun 28 23:39:37 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 23:39:37 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Intel GMA500 No Love f/Linux
In-Reply-To: <20100628165702.0902f28b@Nokia-N800-43-7>
References: <20100628165702.0902f28b@Nokia-N800-43-7>
Message-ID: <AANLkTiliOS7bEy3mGgjFlhmbEwHeuE7kUfAscvLE_qPM@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 4:57 PM, Peter Bart <petertheplumber at att.net> wrote:
>    How Intel can put out something like the GMA500 chip; while working
>    on Moblin and now Meego; is beyond me. What a mess!
> <http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/how-kick-your-friends-face-gma500>
> <http://forums.opensuse.org/news/tech-news/424370-warning-please-don-t-buy-intel-gma500.html>
>

Simple analysis:
Intel 3D is garbage.
AMD and Nvidia have 3D chipsets but are competitors.
PowerVR was their solution.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_GMA#GMA_500

It could have been a SiS or Via/S3 solution which are just as bad:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S3_Chrome
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Integrated_Systems


From jbroughton at twmi.rr.com  Mon Jun 28 23:48:43 2010
From: jbroughton at twmi.rr.com (Jim Broughton)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 23:48:43 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] KDE 4
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTilSFTSJT_6oX5lDjlhU60PXCDspSG1Rl1YqaNRP@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4C293CA4.1000608@twmi.rr.com>
	<AANLkTilSFTSJT_6oX5lDjlhU60PXCDspSG1Rl1YqaNRP@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C296D1B.3060409@twmi.rr.com>

Progress just for the sake of progress is not progressive. :-)
It is KDE 4.4.3. Or was. It's gone now. The KDE team will
have to polish this turd a bit more before I will find it useful.
I have been a KDE user since version 1.1. Ages ago.

Now that I have messed with things a bit. I have found that I could
install the 3.5.10 version of KDE from the Slackware 12.2 version disks on a
13.1 install. Provided you delete all of qt4 and kde 4.4.3. Yes it runs
just beautifully thank you very much. I have not tested all the apps under
it just the ones I used and they all function as intended.
HOWEVER this is on a 32bit system with a pentium 4 processor.
 The 64 bit version of the Slackware 13.1 install I have in testing on my
Desktop machine will require a rather lengthy compile session with
the KDE 3.5.10 source code plus a few libraries that KDE4 does not use.
There is of course a companion 64 Slack alike system made by a separate
developer maybe his 12.2 64 bit version will install on 13.1.
Might have to give that a try.

Jim


Michael Rudas wrote:
>  --- Jim Broughton wrote:
>
> > I just recently installed Slackware 13.1 and have my second look at
> > the KDE 4 series desktop. I am appalled at what I see.
>
>  What rev level of KDE 4?  Current is 4.4.3 -- earlier versions are
>  not as polished -- but, frankly, I like KDE 4 just fine and prefer it
>  over GNOME.  I use it every day, just as I have used every version of
>  KDE 3 from v3.0 forward.
>
>  Is it perfect? No, but I am learning to tweak it to suit my needs.
>  Progress IS progress, after all.
>
>  ~~ Michael Rudas My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com My Protopage
>  links: http://TinyURL.com/protop http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey
>  _______________________________________________ mdlug mailing list
>  mdlug at mdlug.org http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>




From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Mon Jun 28 23:51:00 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 23:51:00 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Intel GMA500 No Love f/Linux
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinF8cfE0vU1glSs3MwP4cdGg2NM0onvCEp0-OOV@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100628165702.0902f28b@Nokia-N800-43-7>
	<AANLkTinF8cfE0vU1glSs3MwP4cdGg2NM0onvCEp0-OOV@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C296DA4.3040600@gmail.com>

Michael Rudas wrote:
> --- Peter Bart wrote:
> 
>> How Intel can put out something like the GMA500 chip; while working
>> on Moblin and now Meego; is beyond me. What a mess!
> 
> This kind of thing is one of the many reasons that I use and recommend
> AMD instead.  I've NEVER trusted Intel in the 30+ years I've worked
> with CPUs.  I do realize that most current netbooks use either Intel
> or ARM variants (including the upcoming nVidia Tegra series) but there
> are AMD-based netbooks and tablets on the way.
>

I remember seeing some data books for product offering by
Intel and AMD back in the mid-80's.  Advanced Micro-Devices
certainly live up to their audacious name compared to Intel's
run-of-the-mill slop.

It's too bad the Motorola 68x00 series died a premature death
due to not inferior hardware, but due to the criminal actions of
Microsoft, and MS-DOS and MS-Windows running only on Intel CPUs.


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Mon Jun 28 23:52:15 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 23:52:15 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] KDE 4
In-Reply-To: <4C296D1B.3060409@twmi.rr.com>
References: <4C293CA4.1000608@twmi.rr.com>	<AANLkTilSFTSJT_6oX5lDjlhU60PXCDspSG1Rl1YqaNRP@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C296D1B.3060409@twmi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <4C296DEF.8020004@gmail.com>

Jim Broughton wrote:
> Progress just for the sake of progress is not progressive. :-)
> It is KDE 4.4.3. Or was. It's gone now. The KDE team will
> have to polish this turd a bit more before I will find it useful.
> I have been a KDE user since version 1.1. Ages ago.
> 
> Now that I have messed with things a bit. I have found that I could
> install the 3.5.10 version of KDE from the Slackware 12.2 version disks on a
> 13.1 install. Provided you delete all of qt4 and kde 4.4.3. Yes it runs
> just beautifully thank you very much. I have not tested all the apps under
> it just the ones I used and they all function as intended.
> HOWEVER this is on a 32bit system with a pentium 4 processor.
>  The 64 bit version of the Slackware 13.1 install I have in testing on my
> Desktop machine will require a rather lengthy compile session with
> the KDE 3.5.10 source code plus a few libraries that KDE4 does not use.
> There is of course a companion 64 Slack alike system made by a separate
> developer maybe his 12.2 64 bit version will install on 13.1.
> Might have to give that a try.
> 

Please keep us informed of the results.

> Jim
> 
> 
> Michael Rudas wrote:
>>  --- Jim Broughton wrote:
>>
>>> I just recently installed Slackware 13.1 and have my second look at
>>> the KDE 4 series desktop. I am appalled at what I see.
>>  What rev level of KDE 4?  Current is 4.4.3 -- earlier versions are
>>  not as polished -- but, frankly, I like KDE 4 just fine and prefer it
>>  over GNOME.  I use it every day, just as I have used every version of
>>  KDE 3 from v3.0 forward.
>>
>>  Is it perfect? No, but I am learning to tweak it to suit my needs.
>>  Progress IS progress, after all.
>>
>>  ~~ Michael Rudas My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com My Protopage
>>  links: http://TinyURL.com/protop http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey
>>  _______________________________________________ mdlug mailing list
>>  mdlug at mdlug.org http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Tue Jun 29 00:47:35 2010
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 00:47:35 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Intel GMA500 No Love f/Linux
In-Reply-To: <4C296DA4.3040600@gmail.com>
References: <20100628165702.0902f28b@Nokia-N800-43-7>
	<AANLkTinF8cfE0vU1glSs3MwP4cdGg2NM0onvCEp0-OOV@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C296DA4.3040600@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTiktmTk_Lk6PJybtiyr2Eu820WnlbkiRH75-j5XY@mail.gmail.com>

--- Aaron Kulkis wrote:

> I remember seeing some data books for product offering by
> Intel and AMD back in the mid-80's. ?Advanced Micro-Devices
> certainly live up to their audacious name compared to Intel's
> run-of-the-mill slop.

Jerry Sanders, founder of Advanced Micro Devices, was one of the
"Traitorous 8" that William Shockley hired to create the Shockley
Transistor Company in the mid-'50s (the single act that created
Silicon Valley).  After they left Fairchild Semiconductor as a group
to form Intelligent Electronics (later Intel), Sanders had a falling
out with the others and formed AMD as much to spite the others as
anything else.  This is one reason why the relationship between the
two companies has been so rancorous at times.

> It's too bad the Motorola 68x00 series died a premature death
> due to not inferior hardware, but due to the criminal actions of
> Microsoft, and MS-DOS and MS-Windows running only on Intel CPUs.

Ummmm, no.  The 680x0 series died because it wasn't scalable. Due to
architectural limitations (mostly timing issues), chips wouldn't run
with a clock speed faster than about 50MHz or so.  The follow-on 880x0
RISC series failed in the marketplace, but when pieces of it were
combined with IBM's RISC technology, it became the PowerPC series of
CPUs.

I'm just glad that Linux is scalable and flexible enough to run on
almost anything.

~~ Michael Rudas
   My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
   My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/protop
   http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Tue Jun 29 08:45:44 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 05:45:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Intel GMA500 No Love f/Linux
In-Reply-To: <4C296DA4.3040600@gmail.com>
References: <20100628165702.0902f28b@Nokia-N800-43-7>
	<AANLkTinF8cfE0vU1glSs3MwP4cdGg2NM0onvCEp0-OOV@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C296DA4.3040600@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <604602.65242.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Well, Intel needs a competitor to keep them honest, AMD is the reason that we have 64 bit for under $100.



________________________________
From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Mon, June 28, 2010 11:51:00 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Intel GMA500 No Love f/Linux

Michael Rudas wrote:
> --- Peter Bart wrote:
> 
>> How Intel can put out something like the GMA500 chip; while working
>> on Moblin and now Meego; is beyond me. What a mess!
> 
> This kind of thing is one of the many reasons that I use and recommend
> AMD instead.? I've NEVER trusted Intel in the 30+ years I've worked
> with CPUs.? I do realize that most current netbooks use either Intel
> or ARM variants (including the upcoming nVidia Tegra series) but there
> are AMD-based netbooks and tablets on the way.
>

I remember seeing some data books for product offering by
Intel and AMD back in the mid-80's.? Advanced Micro-Devices
certainly live up to their audacious name compared to Intel's
run-of-the-mill slop.

It's too bad the Motorola 68x00 series died a premature death
due to not inferior hardware, but due to the criminal actions of
Microsoft, and MS-DOS and MS-Windows running only on Intel CPUs.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      

From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Tue Jun 29 09:05:28 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 06:05:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] KDE 4
In-Reply-To: <4C296DEF.8020004@gmail.com>
References: <4C293CA4.1000608@twmi.rr.com>
	<AANLkTilSFTSJT_6oX5lDjlhU60PXCDspSG1Rl1YqaNRP@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C296D1B.3060409@twmi.rr.com> <4C296DEF.8020004@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <603058.54323.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I use KDE. I hope that the team keeps in mind that people are on windows because they have it seems, no other choice.

And with the flop of vista I'm surprized that we did not get more migration to Linux KDE or Gnome.

David C. Lane 



________________________________
From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Mon, June 28, 2010 11:52:15 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] KDE 4

Jim Broughton wrote:
> Progress just for the sake of progress is not progressive. :-)
> It is KDE 4.4.3. Or was. It's gone now. The KDE team will
> have to polish this turd a bit more before I will find it useful.
> I have been a KDE user since version 1.1. Ages ago.
> 
> Now that I have messed with things a bit. I have found that I could
> install the 3.5.10 version of KDE from the Slackware 12.2 version disks on a
> 13.1 install. Provided you delete all of qt4 and kde 4.4.3. Yes it runs
> just beautifully thank you very much. I have not tested all the apps under
> it just the ones I used and they all function as intended.
> HOWEVER this is on a 32bit system with a pentium 4 processor.
>? The 64 bit version of the Slackware 13.1 install I have in testing on my
> Desktop machine will require a rather lengthy compile session with
> the KDE 3.5.10 source code plus a few libraries that KDE4 does not use.
> There is of course a companion 64 Slack alike system made by a separate
> developer maybe his 12.2 64 bit version will install on 13.1.
> Might have to give that a try.
> 

Please keep us informed of the results.

> Jim
> 
> 
> Michael Rudas wrote:
>>? --- Jim Broughton wrote:
>>
>>> I just recently installed Slackware 13.1 and have my second look at
>>> the KDE 4 series desktop. I am appalled at what I see.
>>? What rev level of KDE 4?? Current is 4.4.3 -- earlier versions are
>>? not as polished -- but, frankly, I like KDE 4 just fine and prefer it
>>? over GNOME.? I use it every day, just as I have used every version of
>>? KDE 3 from v3.0 forward.
>>
>>? Is it perfect? No, but I am learning to tweak it to suit my needs.
>>? Progress IS progress, after all.
>>
>>? ~~ Michael Rudas My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com My Protopage
>>? links: http://TinyURL.com/protop http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey
>>? _______________________________________________ mdlug mailing list
>>? mdlug at mdlug.org http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      

From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Tue Jun 29 09:07:53 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 06:07:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Intel GMA500 No Love f/Linux
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTiktmTk_Lk6PJybtiyr2Eu820WnlbkiRH75-j5XY@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100628165702.0902f28b@Nokia-N800-43-7>
	<AANLkTinF8cfE0vU1glSs3MwP4cdGg2NM0onvCEp0-OOV@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C296DA4.3040600@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTiktmTk_Lk6PJybtiyr2Eu820WnlbkiRH75-j5XY@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <252326.22672.qm@web37902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Yes, and one thing that made Intel Big was that they showed Engineers how to use their chips in theirs designs. 

There is a book call "Marketing high technology" it is a good read. 

David C. Lane 

?



________________________________
From: Michael Rudas <audiotech50 at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 12:47:35 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Intel GMA500 No Love f/Linux

--- Aaron Kulkis wrote:

> I remember seeing some data books for product offering by
> Intel and AMD back in the mid-80's. ?Advanced Micro-Devices
> certainly live up to their audacious name compared to Intel's
> run-of-the-mill slop.

Jerry Sanders, founder of Advanced Micro Devices, was one of the
"Traitorous 8" that William Shockley hired to create the Shockley
Transistor Company in the mid-'50s (the single act that created
Silicon Valley).? After they left Fairchild Semiconductor as a group
to form Intelligent Electronics (later Intel), Sanders had a falling
out with the others and formed AMD as much to spite the others as
anything else.? This is one reason why the relationship between the
two companies has been so rancorous at times.

> It's too bad the Motorola 68x00 series died a premature death
> due to not inferior hardware, but due to the criminal actions of
> Microsoft, and MS-DOS and MS-Windows running only on Intel CPUs.

Ummmm, no.? The 680x0 series died because it wasn't scalable. Due to
architectural limitations (mostly timing issues), chips wouldn't run
with a clock speed faster than about 50MHz or so.? The follow-on 880x0
RISC series failed in the marketplace, but when pieces of it were
combined with IBM's RISC technology, it became the PowerPC series of
CPUs.

I'm just glad that Linux is scalable and flexible enough to run on
almost anything.

~~ Michael Rudas
? My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
? My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/protop
? http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      

From Stan at mcomputersolutions.com  Tue Jun 29 22:18:15 2010
From: Stan at mcomputersolutions.com (Stan Green)
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 22:18:15 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] KDE 4
In-Reply-To: <4C29697E.2010802@gmail.com>
References: <4C293CA4.1000608@twmi.rr.com> <4C29697E.2010802@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201006292218.15781.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>

I run KDE 3.5 on my desktop and on my wife's PC I have KDE 4.x. (It is SUSE 11, 
which does not ship with KDE 3.5.)

The one major thing that was a huge pain was no desktop icons! In KDE 3.5 I can 
create a symbolic link on the desktop. This way she can open her documents and 
not care where they are on the file system. (She modifies a few documents on a 
regular basis.)  I did find a work-around by making the desktop display the 
contents of a folder. I them put the symbolic links in the folder and I have 
desktop icons back. I guess Segio did not get rid of all the desktop icon code. 

Stan


On Monday 28 June 2010 11:33:18 pm Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> Jim Broughton wrote:
> > I just recently installed Slackware 13.1 and have my second look
> > at the KDE 4 series desktop. I am appalled at what I see.
> > After 3 years thats all they have to show. I think that they should have
> > gone with a dual track, refining 3.5 while putting 4 into usable shape.
> > While
> > KDE 4  looks pretty it is harder to configure than the older 3.5 series
> > I was used to under Slack 12.2. It lacks a lot the programs that
> > were available under 3.5. The default menu system just plain sucks.
> > I guess their objective was to dumb it down a bit for the normal user
> > but at the
> > same time the fallout has been that a power user is left with a system
> > that just plain is not fun to use or configure.
> > I have kept in mind that Slackware does a minimal amount of
> > configuration work on the desktop software so that what you see is pretty
> > much what the KDE team released. I was so annoyed by it I downgraded
> > (upgraded?) my Laptop to the XFCE desktop. I will probably have to
> > compile/build KDE 3.5 for it.  Anyone else here using KDE 4 for
> > your desktop? Opinions?
>
> project leader Aaron Segio is a pathological liar, and I will never trust
> ANYTHING associated with this man.
>
> For instance, the KDE team propaganda, lead by Segio, state
> that KDE4 was a complete rewrite from the bottom up -- this
> being the excuse for normal desktop interactions which we have
> all come to know and love in KDE 3.5..
>
> ...and yet segio (too cool for capital letters) stated on his
> blog words to the effect of "finally, after a lot of work, I've
> ripped all the desktop icons code out of KDE4"
>
> What code is there to "rip out" if their story that they
> were "building from the ground up" were true, and they were
> not re-using KDE 3.5 code.
>
> Additionally, many of the photos that the man PUTS ON HIS
> OWN website indicate a total jack*** with a completely
> flippant attitude.
>
> KDE is becoming the NetBSD of the Linux world. :-(
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Jun 30 01:20:14 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 01:20:14 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] KDE 4
In-Reply-To: <201006292218.15781.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
References: <4C293CA4.1000608@twmi.rr.com> <4C29697E.2010802@gmail.com>
	<201006292218.15781.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <4C2AD40E.3040907@gmail.com>

Stan Green wrote:
> I run KDE 3.5 on my desktop and on my wife's PC I have KDE 4.x. (It is SUSE 11, 
> which does not ship with KDE 3.5.)
> 
> The one major thing that was a huge pain was no desktop icons! In KDE 3.5 I can 
> create a symbolic link on the desktop. This way she can open her documents and 
> not care where they are on the file system. (She modifies a few documents on a 
> regular basis.)  I did find a work-around by making the desktop display the 
> contents of a folder. I them put the symbolic links in the folder and I have 
> desktop icons back. I guess Segio did not get rid of all the desktop icon code. 
> 

The KDE 4 team, did so, and VERY begrudgingly, after several
MONTHS of berating emails on the opensuse mailing lists
[Many KDE devs subscribe to the opensuse list.  This is how
I'm aware of the lying.  The swore up and down that 4.0 was
"ready for the desktop user" ... all of use who tested it
said in no uncertain terms, that it was alpha-ware crap and
should NOT in any way, shape or form, be indicated on the
openSUSE 11.0 release as anything other than extremely
incomplete and unstable, so that newbies wouldn't install
it (hey, 4.0 must be better than 3.5, right!?!?!) thinking
that it represents the typical quality of Linux software.

But they did, anyways.  The whole KDE 4 project has been
notable for the incredible levels of dishonesty from the
devs, [[which they finally admitted about 15 months ago]].
If they can't be honest with their most ardent supporters,
and in fact, lie to us, in writing, repeatedly, even AFTER
being called out on it ... I cannot trust this crowd one bit.

And I will not trust them until Segio and others are
removed from the KDE team.

And that really sucks, because I find Gnome to be an
extremely ugly, inflexible crap written by a bunch with
an MS-like "we know better than you" attitude ("the
'average user' should want it this way, therefore so
should you, so don't bother looking to customize it")
The problem is, the "average user" is a myth.



> Stan
> 
> 
> On Monday 28 June 2010 11:33:18 pm Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>> Jim Broughton wrote:
>>> I just recently installed Slackware 13.1 and have my second look
>>> at the KDE 4 series desktop. I am appalled at what I see.
>>> After 3 years thats all they have to show. I think that they should have
>>> gone with a dual track, refining 3.5 while putting 4 into usable shape.
>>> While
>>> KDE 4  looks pretty it is harder to configure than the older 3.5 series
>>> I was used to under Slack 12.2. It lacks a lot the programs that
>>> were available under 3.5. The default menu system just plain sucks.
>>> I guess their objective was to dumb it down a bit for the normal user
>>> but at the
>>> same time the fallout has been that a power user is left with a system
>>> that just plain is not fun to use or configure.
>>> I have kept in mind that Slackware does a minimal amount of
>>> configuration work on the desktop software so that what you see is pretty
>>> much what the KDE team released. I was so annoyed by it I downgraded
>>> (upgraded?) my Laptop to the XFCE desktop. I will probably have to
>>> compile/build KDE 3.5 for it.  Anyone else here using KDE 4 for
>>> your desktop? Opinions?
>> project leader Aaron Segio is a pathological liar, and I will never trust
>> ANYTHING associated with this man.
>>
>> For instance, the KDE team propaganda, lead by Segio, state
>> that KDE4 was a complete rewrite from the bottom up -- this
>> being the excuse for normal desktop interactions which we have
>> all come to know and love in KDE 3.5..
>>
>> ...and yet segio (too cool for capital letters) stated on his
>> blog words to the effect of "finally, after a lot of work, I've
>> ripped all the desktop icons code out of KDE4"
>>
>> What code is there to "rip out" if their story that they
>> were "building from the ground up" were true, and they were
>> not re-using KDE 3.5 code.
>>
>> Additionally, many of the photos that the man PUTS ON HIS
>> OWN website indicate a total jack*** with a completely
>> flippant attitude.
>>
>> KDE is becoming the NetBSD of the Linux world. :-(
>> _______________________________________________
>> mdlug mailing list
>> mdlug at mdlug.org
>> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From danno at umich.edu  Tue Jun  1 15:49:25 2010
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 15:49:25 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] [WLUG] building a nas device
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinqWZmFZeH0Kf8SJWuKIO10h0eddrBuqdv09WHQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4eaf1f5740f0228649079d41e608a9c7.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
	<20100531141703.GB93788@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<4C03E7E1.6020406@scalableinformatics.com>
	<20100601191534.GA55069@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<AANLkTinqWZmFZeH0Kf8SJWuKIO10h0eddrBuqdv09WHQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100601194924.GB55069@maniac.deathstar.org>

zfs is a filesystem, volume manager, and software raid all rolled
together.  it does full checksums on all data.  

it uses variable stripe width on its RAID5/6 variant, RAIDz/z2, so
it can avoid the RAID5 write hole and slow read-modify-write cycle
(notably, though, this comes at the expense of random read performance).

if you have super-important data or just a single disk, it can write
multiple copies.

snapshots are built in.

administration is a breeze.  

it can trivially make use of a fast device (ssd) as a read cache (L2ARC)
or write cache (ZIL).

it is awesome, although not without its warts.  

On Tue, Jun 01, 2010 at 03:24:46PM -0400, Ethan Allen wrote:
> Not to take this too far off topic but what makes ZFS an advantage of XFS? I
> have never used ZFS but since it was brought up here I thought I would ask.
> 
> On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 3:15 PM, Dan Pritts <danno at umich.edu> wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 12:46:25PM -0400, Joe Landman wrote:
> > > >Do not use RAID5 if you care about ALL of your data; you need double
> > > >redundancy (RAID6) with modern drives.  Why?  You will eventually
> > > >lose a drive.  During rebuild you are reasonably likely to have a
> > > >read error somewhere on another drive.  You may get lucky and this
> > > >is on free space, or it's data you decide you can live without
> > > >(e.g., if i lose one photo out of the 5000 i've taken, no big deal,
> > > >but if i lose them all i'd be sad).
> > >
> > > RAID6 or RAID10.
> >
> > with raid10 you still have a pretty good chance of data loss.
> >
> > http://blog.richardelling.com/2010/02/zfs-data-protection-comparison.html
> >
> > This is pretty much out of the realm of what the OP was looking for
> > though.
> >
> > > ZFS's future outside of commercial paid Solaris licenses is very much in
> > > doubt.
> >
> > one answer to this concern is that the existing code can't be taken
> > back; a freebsd system you build today will work just as well tomorrow.
> >
> > another is that it's possible oracle will give away zfs to gpl;
> > they are funding linux's btrfs.
> >
> > all that said it is certainly possible that future enhancements to
> > zfs will be proprietary.
> >
> > basically for carl's a single NAS this is not an issue.  i would
> > certainly be concerned before designing products around this though
> > :)
> >
> > danno
> > --
> > ***  Sent from linux-users at lugwash.org  ***  http://www.lugwash.org
> > to unsubscribe: `echo "unsubscribe" | mail linux-users-request at lugwash.org
> > `
> >

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From danno at umich.edu  Tue Jun  1 15:15:34 2010
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 15:15:34 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] [WLUG] building a nas device
In-Reply-To: <4C03E7E1.6020406@scalableinformatics.com>
References: <4eaf1f5740f0228649079d41e608a9c7.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
	<20100531141703.GB93788@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<4C03E7E1.6020406@scalableinformatics.com>
Message-ID: <20100601191534.GA55069@maniac.deathstar.org>

On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 12:46:25PM -0400, Joe Landman wrote:
> >Do not use RAID5 if you care about ALL of your data; you need double
> >redundancy (RAID6) with modern drives.  Why?  You will eventually
> >lose a drive.  During rebuild you are reasonably likely to have a
> >read error somewhere on another drive.  You may get lucky and this
> >is on free space, or it's data you decide you can live without
> >(e.g., if i lose one photo out of the 5000 i've taken, no big deal,
> >but if i lose them all i'd be sad).
> 
> RAID6 or RAID10.

with raid10 you still have a pretty good chance of data loss.

http://blog.richardelling.com/2010/02/zfs-data-protection-comparison.html

This is pretty much out of the realm of what the OP was looking for
though.  

> ZFS's future outside of commercial paid Solaris licenses is very much in 
> doubt.

one answer to this concern is that the existing code can't be taken
back; a freebsd system you build today will work just as well tomorrow.

another is that it's possible oracle will give away zfs to gpl;
they are funding linux's btrfs.

all that said it is certainly possible that future enhancements to
zfs will be proprietary.

basically for carl's a single NAS this is not an issue.  i would
certainly be concerned before designing products around this though
:)

danno


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Mon Jun  7 10:10:10 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 07:10:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Solaris 10 Priority Scheduling
Message-ID: <462713.81509.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi, 


We are facing a challenging issue.

We have performance issueson a multi CPU server. Our benchmark (sum of square-roots 1 - 1,000,000) runs 20 sec on a a multi cpu system. Yet it runs less than a sec on a single CPU system and on my desktop. 

When we found this we started to explore scheduling priorities.

If a process is running slow and needs to run faster on Solaris, what are odd options to tweek performance?
?
Where are SYS 60-99 processes assigned ?

David C. Lane



      


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Mon Jun  7 11:01:21 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2010 11:01:21 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Solaris 10 Priority Scheduling
In-Reply-To: <462713.81509.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <462713.81509.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4C0D09C1.4070806@gmail.com>

David Lane wrote:
> Hi, 
> 
> 
> We are facing a challenging issue.
> 
> We have performance issueson a multi CPU server. Our benchmark (sum of square-roots 1 - 1,000,000) runs 20 sec on a a multi cpu system. Yet it runs less than a sec on a single CPU system and on my desktop. 
> 
> When we found this we started to explore scheduling priorities.
> 
> If a process is running slow and needs to run faster on Solaris, what are odd options to tweek performance?
>  
> Where are SYS 60-99 processes assigned ?
> 
> David C. Lane

I assume that this is on a system with ample CPU idle time
and the I/O channels are not saturated?


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Mon Jun  7 11:22:34 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 08:22:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Solaris 10 Priority Scheduling
In-Reply-To: <4C0D09C1.4070806@gmail.com>
References: <462713.81509.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4C0D09C1.4070806@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <97083.25583.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Yes there the other CPU's are idle. Yet we cant get the system to give a process more CPU resources, when nothing else is happening on the system.

David C. Lane

?



________________________________
From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Mon, June 7, 2010 11:01:21 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] OT: Solaris 10 Priority Scheduling

David Lane wrote:
> Hi, 
> 
> 
> We are facing a challenging issue.
> 
> We have performance issueson a multi CPU server. Our benchmark (sum of square-roots 1 - 1,000,000) runs 20 sec on a a multi cpu system. Yet it runs less than a sec on a single CPU system and on my desktop. 
> 
> When we found this we started to explore scheduling priorities.
> 
> If a process is running slow and needs to run faster on Solaris, what are odd options to tweek performance?
>? 
> Where are SYS 60-99 processes assigned ?
> 
> David C. Lane

I assume that this is on a system with ample CPU idle time
and the I/O channels are not saturated?
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Mon Jun  7 11:29:02 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2010 11:29:02 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Solaris 10 Priority Scheduling
In-Reply-To: <97083.25583.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <462713.81509.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<4C0D09C1.4070806@gmail.com>
	<97083.25583.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4C0D103E.8090901@gmail.com>

David Lane wrote:
> Yes there the other CPU's are idle. Yet we cant get the system to give a process more CPU resources, when nothing else is happening on the system.
> 

My bet is that the process is being migrated from core to core.

Solaris has a command to bind a process to one core, although it's
been too long since I used Solaris to remember exactly what command
that is.

To find that command, try these:

man -k cpu
man -k core
man -k bind


> David C. Lane
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Sent: Mon, June 7, 2010 11:01:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] OT: Solaris 10 Priority Scheduling
> 
> David Lane wrote:
>> Hi, 
>>
>>
>> We are facing a challenging issue.
>>
>> We have performance issueson a multi CPU server. Our benchmark (sum of square-roots 1 - 1,000,000) runs 20 sec on a a multi cpu system. Yet it runs less than a sec on a single CPU system and on my desktop. 
>>
>> When we found this we started to explore scheduling priorities.
>>
>> If a process is running slow and needs to run faster on Solaris, what are odd options to tweek performance?
>>   
>> Where are SYS 60-99 processes assigned ?
>>
>> David C. Lane
> 
> I assume that this is on a system with ample CPU idle time
> and the I/O channels are not saturated?
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Mon Jun  7 11:30:47 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2010 11:30:47 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Solaris 10 Priority Scheduling
In-Reply-To: <4C0D103E.8090901@gmail.com>
References: <462713.81509.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<4C0D09C1.4070806@gmail.com>
	<97083.25583.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4C0D103E.8090901@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C0D10A7.9000507@gmail.com>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> David Lane wrote:
>> Yes there the other CPU's are idle. Yet we cant get the system to give 
>> a process more CPU resources, when nothing else is happening on the 
>> system.
>>
> 
> My bet is that the process is being migrated from core to core.
> 
> Solaris has a command to bind a process to one core, although it's
> been too long since I used Solaris to remember exactly what command
> that is.
> 
> To find that command, try these:
> 
> man -k cpu
> man -k core
> man -k bind
> 


It appears to be the command "pbind"

<http://www.google.com/search?q=solaris+bind+process+cpu+OR+core&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=mozilla&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial>


> 
>> David C. Lane
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
>> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>> Sent: Mon, June 7, 2010 11:01:21 AM
>> Subject: Re: [mdlug] OT: Solaris 10 Priority Scheduling
>>
>> David Lane wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> We are facing a challenging issue.
>>>
>>> We have performance issueson a multi CPU server. Our benchmark (sum 
>>> of square-roots 1 - 1,000,000) runs 20 sec on a a multi cpu system. 
>>> Yet it runs less than a sec on a single CPU system and on my desktop.
>>> When we found this we started to explore scheduling priorities.
>>>
>>> If a process is running slow and needs to run faster on Solaris, what 
>>> are odd options to tweek performance?
>>>   Where are SYS 60-99 processes assigned ?
>>>
>>> David C. Lane
>>
>> I assume that this is on a system with ample CPU idle time
>> and the I/O channels are not saturated?



From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Mon Jun  7 11:38:01 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 08:38:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Solaris 10 Priority Scheduling
In-Reply-To: <4C0D10A7.9000507@gmail.com>
References: <462713.81509.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4C0D09C1.4070806@gmail.com>
	<97083.25583.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4C0D103E.8090901@gmail.com> <4C0D10A7.9000507@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <347697.22773.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

so with 24 cores can you set a side say 4 cores for a few server tasks?




________________________________
From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Mon, June 7, 2010 11:30:47 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] OT: Solaris 10 Priority Scheduling

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> David Lane wrote:
>> Yes there the other CPU's are idle. Yet we cant get the system to give 
>> a process more CPU resources, when nothing else is happening on the 
>> system.
>>
> 
> My bet is that the process is being migrated from core to core.
> 
> Solaris has a command to bind a process to one core, although it's
> been too long since I used Solaris to remember exactly what command
> that is.
> 
> To find that command, try these:
> 
> man -k cpu
> man -k core
> man -k bind
> 


It appears to be the command "pbind"

<http://www.google.com/search?q=solaris+bind+process+cpu+OR+core&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=mozilla&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial>


> 
>> David C. Lane
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
>> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>> Sent: Mon, June 7, 2010 11:01:21 AM
>> Subject: Re: [mdlug] OT: Solaris 10 Priority Scheduling
>>
>> David Lane wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> We are facing a challenging issue.
>>>
>>> We have performance issueson a multi CPU server. Our benchmark (sum 
>>> of square-roots 1 - 1,000,000) runs 20 sec on a a multi cpu system. 
>>> Yet it runs less than a sec on a single CPU system and on my desktop.
>>> When we found this we started to explore scheduling priorities.
>>>
>>> If a process is running slow and needs to run faster on Solaris, what 
>>> are odd options to tweek performance?
>>>? Where are SYS 60-99 processes assigned ?
>>>
>>> David C. Lane
>>
>> I assume that this is on a system with ample CPU idle time
>> and the I/O channels are not saturated?

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Mon Jun  7 11:43:47 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2010 11:43:47 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Solaris 10 Priority Scheduling
In-Reply-To: <347697.22773.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <462713.81509.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<4C0D09C1.4070806@gmail.com>	<97083.25583.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<4C0D103E.8090901@gmail.com>
	<4C0D10A7.9000507@gmail.com>
	<347697.22773.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4C0D13B3.3000206@gmail.com>

David Lane wrote:
> so with 24 cores can you set a side say 4 cores for a few server tasks?
> 

yes.

http://developers.sun.com/solaris/articles/solaris_processor.html
indicates to create a "processor set" using the parset command.

I think if you bind your benchmark process to a SINGLE core,
that you will get the fast speed again, because you won't
endure the overhead of the process being [wastefully in this
case] migrated from core to core to core to core ....


> ________________________________
> From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Sent: Mon, June 7, 2010 11:30:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] OT: Solaris 10 Priority Scheduling
> 
> Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>> David Lane wrote:
>>> Yes there the other CPU's are idle. Yet we cant get the system to give 
>>> a process more CPU resources, when nothing else is happening on the 
>>> system.
>>>
>> My bet is that the process is being migrated from core to core.
>>
>> Solaris has a command to bind a process to one core, although it's
>> been too long since I used Solaris to remember exactly what command
>> that is.
>>
>> To find that command, try these:
>>
>> man -k cpu
>> man -k core
>> man -k bind
>>
> 
> 
> It appears to be the command "pbind"
> 
> <http://www.google.com/search?q=solaris+bind+process+cpu+OR+core&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=mozilla&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial>
> 
> 
>>> David C. Lane
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
>>> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>>> Sent: Mon, June 7, 2010 11:01:21 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [mdlug] OT: Solaris 10 Priority Scheduling
>>>
>>> David Lane wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> We are facing a challenging issue.
>>>>
>>>> We have performance issueson a multi CPU server. Our benchmark (sum 
>>>> of square-roots 1 - 1,000,000) runs 20 sec on a a multi cpu system. 
>>>> Yet it runs less than a sec on a single CPU system and on my desktop.
>>>> When we found this we started to explore scheduling priorities.
>>>>
>>>> If a process is running slow and needs to run faster on Solaris, what 
>>>> are odd options to tweek performance?
>>>>   Where are SYS 60-99 processes assigned ?
>>>>
>>>> David C. Lane
>>> I assume that this is on a system with ample CPU idle time
>>> and the I/O channels are not saturated?
> 



From danno at umich.edu  Tue Jun  8 23:49:20 2010
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 23:49:20 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Solaris 10 Priority Scheduling
In-Reply-To: <462713.81509.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <462713.81509.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20100609034920.GA78633@maniac.deathstar.org>

you probably know this but just in case -

the ultrasparc t-series CPUs, the highly parallel ones, cores, have
limited floating-point performance.  IIRC each CPU has 8 cores, but
all 8 share a single floating-point unit.

if you're running a single copy of your benchmark on an otherwise
unloaded server, this shouldn't make any difference.

HTH

danno

On Mon, Jun 07, 2010 at 07:10:10AM -0700, David Lane wrote:
> Hi, 
> 
> 
> We are facing a challenging issue.
> 
> We have performance issueson a multi CPU server. Our benchmark (sum of square-roots 1 - 1,000,000) runs 20 sec on a a multi cpu system. Yet it runs less than a sec on a single CPU system and on my desktop. 
> 
> When we found this we started to explore scheduling priorities.
> 
> If a process is running slow and needs to run faster on Solaris, what are odd options to tweek performance?
> ?
> Where are SYS 60-99 processes assigned ?
> 
> David C. Lane
> 
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Wed Jun  9 13:23:20 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 10:23:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Solaris 10 Priority Scheduling
In-Reply-To: <20100609034920.GA78633@maniac.deathstar.org>
References: <462713.81509.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20100609034920.GA78633@maniac.deathstar.org>
Message-ID: <50762.76393.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

What I'm looking for now is getting the process to have more CPU resources.

How/Where would I assign a SYS 80 to a process?

David C. Lane 



________________________________
From: Dan Pritts <danno at umich.edu>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Tue, June 8, 2010 11:49:20 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] OT: Solaris 10 Priority Scheduling

you probably know this but just in case -

the ultrasparc t-series CPUs, the highly parallel ones, cores, have
limited floating-point performance.? IIRC each CPU has 8 cores, but
all 8 share a single floating-point unit.

if you're running a single copy of your benchmark on an otherwise
unloaded server, this shouldn't make any difference.

HTH

danno

On Mon, Jun 07, 2010 at 07:10:10AM -0700, David Lane wrote:
> Hi, 
> 
> 
> We are facing a challenging issue.
> 
> We have performance issueson a multi CPU server. Our benchmark (sum of square-roots 1 - 1,000,000) runs 20 sec on a a multi cpu system. Yet it runs less than a sec on a single CPU system and on my desktop. 
> 
> When we found this we started to explore scheduling priorities.
> 
> If a process is running slow and needs to run faster on Solaris, what are odd options to tweek performance?
> ?
> Where are SYS 60-99 processes assigned ?
> 
> David C. Lane
> 
> 
> 
>? ? ? 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      


From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Wed Jun  9 13:38:24 2010
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 13:38:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Solaris 10 Priority Scheduling
Message-ID: <21028048.1276105104889.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

David,

Not exactly an answer to your question, but I came across this page and thought it might be of some help.
http://www.c0t0d0s0.org/archives/4207-Less-known-Solaris-Features-Resource-Management-Part-4-Limiting-CPU-usage.html

-Mike

-----Original Message-----
>From: David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com>
>Sent: Jun 9, 2010 1:23 PM
>To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>Subject: Re: [mdlug] OT: Solaris 10 Priority Scheduling
>
>What I'm looking for now is getting the process to have more CPU resources.
>
>How/Where would I assign a SYS 80 to a process?
>
>David C. Lane 
>
>
>
>________________________________
>From: Dan Pritts <danno at umich.edu>
>To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>Sent: Tue, June 8, 2010 11:49:20 PM
>Subject: Re: [mdlug] OT: Solaris 10 Priority Scheduling
>
>you probably know this but just in case -
>
>the ultrasparc t-series CPUs, the highly parallel ones, cores, have
>limited floating-point performance.? IIRC each CPU has 8 cores, but
>all 8 share a single floating-point unit.
>
>if you're running a single copy of your benchmark on an otherwise
>unloaded server, this shouldn't make any difference.
>
>HTH
>
>danno
>
>On Mon, Jun 07, 2010 at 07:10:10AM -0700, David Lane wrote:
>> Hi, 
>> 
>> 
>> We are facing a challenging issue.
>> 
>> We have performance issueson a multi CPU server. Our benchmark (sum of square-roots 1 - 1,000,000) runs 20 sec on a a multi cpu system. Yet it runs less than a sec on a single CPU system and on my desktop. 
>> 
>> When we found this we started to explore scheduling priorities.
>> 
>> If a process is running slow and needs to run faster on Solaris, what are odd options to tweek performance?
>> ?
>> Where are SYS 60-99 processes assigned ?
>> 
>> David C. Lane
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>? ? ? 
>> _______________________________________________
>> mdlug mailing list
>> mdlug at mdlug.org
>> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>danno
>--
>dan pritts
>danno at umich.edu
>734-929-9770
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>
>
>      
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From gib at juno.com  Wed Jun  9 19:30:59 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 23:30:59 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] FW: Vmware/Linux Consultant Opportunity-Dearborn, MI
Message-ID: <20100609.193059.14029.0@webmail03.vgs.untd.com>



---------- Forwarded Message ----------
From: Ray Colby <Ray.Colby at us.logicalis.com>
To: "president at mdlug.org" <president at mdlug.org>
Subject: FW: Vmware/Linux Consultant Opportunity-Dearborn, MI
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 15:04:01 -0400

Hello,

I was forwarded your e-mail address form Dean Durant.  

My name is Ray Colby and I am a Senior Recruiter with Logicalis.  Logicalis
> is an international provider of integrated Information and Communications
> technology (ICT) solutions, delivering secure, converged computing and
> communications infrastructure and services. I saw your resume on Dice.com.
>
>
>
> I am looking for a VMware/Linux/Websphere consultant for a client in
> Dearborn, MI.  Our client needs assistance with performance related issues
> with their VMware/Linux environment. The assignment will be for 30 days.
>
>
>
> Do you happen to know anyone looking for an opportunity that matches this
> skill set?  The rate for this opportunity is very good.
>

***PLEASE NOTE THE NEW OFFICE ADDRESS, TELEPHONE NUMBER AND FAX NUMBER***
 
Ray Colby
Senior Recruiter
Logicalis, Inc.
34505 W. Twelve Mile Road, Suite 210
Farmington Hills, MI  48331
Tel: 248-957-5725
Cell: 248-252-0058
Fax: 248-957-5601
ray.colby at us.logicalis.com 
www.us.logicalis.com
 
This email may contain confidential information. If you received it in error, please delete it and notify the sender.

-----Original Message-----
From: Dean Durant [mailto:omvegan at gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 3:01 PM
To: Ray Colby
Subject: Re: Vmware/Linux Consultant Opportunity-Dearborn, MI

try president at mdlug.org

On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 2:56 PM, Ray Colby <Ray.Colby at us.logicalis.com> wrote:
> Hello Dean,
>
>
>
> My name is Ray Colby and I am a Senior Recruiter with Logicalis.? Logicalis
> is?an international provider of integrated Information and Communications
> technology (ICT) solutions, delivering secure, converged computing and
> communications infrastructure and services.?I saw your resume on Dice.com.
>
>
>
> I am looking for a VMware/Linux/Websphere consultant for a client in
> Dearborn, MI.? Our client needs assistance with performance related issues
> with their VMware/Linux environment. The assignment will be for 30 days.
>
>
>
> Do you happen to know anyone looking for an opportunity that matches this
> skill set?? The rate for this opportunity is very good.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Ray
>
>
>
>
>
> ***PLEASE NOTE THE NEW OFFICE ADDRESS, TELEPHONE NUMBER AND FAX NUMBER***
>
>
>
> Ray Colby
>
> Senior Recruiter
>
> Logicalis, Inc.
>
> 34505 W. Twelve Mile Road, Suite 210
>
> Farmington Hills, MI? 48331
>
> Tel: 248-957-5725
>
> Cell: 248-252-0058
>
> Fax: 248-957-5601
>
> ray.colby at us.logicalis.com
>
> www.us.logicalis.com
>
>
>
> This email may contain confidential information. If you received it in
> error, please delete it and notify the sender.
>
>

____________________________________________________________
iPads&#174; for only $22.58?
Breaking News: iPads are being auctioned at 95% off retail. Learn how!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4c10246e90570352f1bst02vuc


From relson at osagesoftware.com  Wed Jun  9 22:03:28 2010
From: relson at osagesoftware.com (David Relson)
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 22:03:28 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] WTB: used Sun SunRay
Message-ID: <20100609220328.345a8737@osage.osagesoftware.com>

'day,

I'm looking for a used Sun SunRay 1, 1G, or 2FS to be purchased in the
next day or so.  It needs to be working and, preferably, be inexpensive.

If you've got one, please contact me.

Thank you.
 
David


From gib at juno.com  Sat Jun 12 17:59:24 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 21:59:24 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] Target has the $50 IM tool called zipit - hack to run Linux
Message-ID: <20100612.175924.8482.0@webmail19.vgs.untd.com>


The Zipit will be the subject of next month's MDLUG meeting.

We were looking for another topic as well.  We thought we'd cover programming concepts (what is data typing, structured programming  . . .).

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "gib at juno.com" <gib at juno.com>
To: mdlug at mdlug.org
Subject: [mdlug] Target has the $50 IM tool called zipit - hack to run Linux
Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 14:44:27 GMT

 
I our meeting Saturday we saw some folks with a zipit.  A $50 device they got from Target intended for teen IM.  But they said they were able to run Linux on it. 
http://www.target.com/dp/B00115PR2O/ref=sc_qi_img_viewdetails?ie=UTF8&title=view%20full%20details
____________________________________________________________
Penny Stock Jumping 2000%
Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today!
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_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




From mark.stanislav at gmail.com  Tue Jun 15 11:03:48 2010
From: mark.stanislav at gmail.com (Mark Stanislav)
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 11:03:48 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Linux Systems Administrator Opportunity
Message-ID: <AANLkTikYj6jb4bgp8-Ey0z2q88ndnXtQcH15N6hD4B5W@mail.gmail.com>

I was given the go-ahead by the recruiter to pass this on places. Hope
someone is interested!

-Mark

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Carmack, Carolyn <CarolynCarmack at technisource.com>
Date: Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 4:29 PM
Subject: Linux Systems Administrator Opportunity.
To: "mark.stanislav at gmail.com" <mark.stanislav at gmail.com>


Hi Mark,

My name is Carolyn Carmack and I am a Recruiter with Technisource in
Troy, MI.? I am currently working with a?company in Troy, MI that is
looking for a Linux Systems Administrator.? I ran across your resume
and would like to discuss this opportunity with you.? I have attached
a copy of the job description for your review.? Please take a look at
it and let me know if you are interested.

Thanks and have a great evening.

Carolyn Carmack
Administrator

Technisource
A Subsidiary of SFN Group

100 E. Big Beaver Suite 1000
Troy, MI 48083
Phone: 248-619-3713
Fax:???? 248-619-3919
carolyncarmack at technisource.com
www.technisource.com
www.sfngroup.com
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From mark.stanislav at gmail.com  Tue Jun 15 14:55:30 2010
From: mark.stanislav at gmail.com (Mark Stanislav)
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 14:55:30 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Linux Systems Administrator Opportunity
Message-ID: <AANLkTilm9P3-wb6y5DFIeDtsGt_B7EIgErwTc37DgRWK@mail.gmail.com>

...Apparently I am popular this week... Here's another one!

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Rob Geer <robg at mgmtbsolutions.com>
Date: Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 2:32 PM
Subject: Linux Systems Administrator Opportunity
To: mark.stanislav at gmail.com


Hi Mark,



I am currently working with a client in Ann Arbor who is looking for a
Linux Systems Administrator.? I was told you may have some contacts
interested in a possible opportunity and wanted to see if you might be
able to point me in the right direction.? I am including the job
description below and more information is available on our website at
www.mgmtbsolutions.com.

Requirements:


3-7 years hands-on experience in technical operations as a Linux
sysadmin (RedHat/Centos/Fedora-distributions preferred. Other flavors
a plus)
Rock solid Linux systems administration troubleshooting, automatic
scheduling (cron/at/GNUbatch), monitoring (Nagios), system
configuration, tuning & optimization, performance analysis, backups
and recovery
Expertise in Perl and shell scripting. Knowledge of Python or Ruby a plus
Basic SQL skills (PL/SQL). Relational database administration
experience (e.g. Oracle, PostgreSQL or MySQL).



Desired Skills:


Experience with high volume internet applications highly desired
Monitoring tools: Nagios, BigBrother, Splunk, Gomez, Keynote, Nimbus, Sitescope
Knowledge of Email Deliverability, Email Service Providers, spam
filtering technologies, DNS blacklists, feedback loops, whitelisting
and email protocols.
Commercial experience on administering scalable, multi-tenant,
on-demand SaaS solutions using open source technologies: Web (Apache,
Tomcat), Mail/SMTP (Postfix, sendmail, qmail), DNS/Bind, Perl, vsftpd
Familiarity with Java/JDK, Ant, Bugzilla, Subversion (SVN),
CruiseControl, rsync, ssh, Netapp (NFS), Cognos, screen, make
Networking Experience - TCP/IP, administration of networking hardware
(Cisco, SonicWall, etc.), network monitoring, routing, load Balancing,
firewalls

Thank you,



Here's to Valuing Relationships and Delivering Results,

Rob?Geer

Phone:?(616)?855-6315? ?? Email: robg at mgmtbsolutions.com
Web: http://www.mgmtbsolutions.com
LinkedIn Profile:?www.linkedin.com/in/robgeer
Twitter:? www.twitter.com/mgmtbsolutions
Facebook:? www.facebook.com/mgmtbsolutions


From gib at juno.com  Thu Jun 17 15:29:57 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 19:29:57 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] Free: phone wire
Message-ID: <20100617.152957.21043.0@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>

Does anyone need any phone wire?  A guy on my work team just sold his house. So, he is cleaning out the stuff.  He has a "half a spool" (a spool is 1,000 feet) of "silver lead" phone wire.  He said this is the good quality wire not the cheap beige color type.

____________________________________________________________
Get Free Email with Video Mail & Video Chat!
http://www.juno.com/freeemail?refcd=JUTAGOUT1FREM0210


From tony at bemushosting.com  Thu Jun 17 19:21:19 2010
From: tony at bemushosting.com (Tony Bemus)
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 19:21:19 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Free: phone wire
In-Reply-To: <20100617.152957.21043.0@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20100617.152957.21043.0@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <1276816879.2624.0.camel@tony-laptop>

is it cat 3 or cat 5?


On Thu, 2010-06-17 at 19:29 +0000, gib at juno.com wrote:
> Does anyone need any phone wire?  A guy on my work team just sold his house. So, he is cleaning out the stuff.  He has a "half a spool" (a spool is 1,000 feet) of "silver lead" phone wire.  He said this is the good quality wire not the cheap beige color type.
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> Get Free Email with Video Mail & Video Chat!
> http://www.juno.com/freeemail?refcd=JUTAGOUT1FREM0210
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




From gib at juno.com  Thu Jun 17 19:58:08 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 23:58:08 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] [Discuss] Re:  Free: phone wire
Message-ID: <20100617.195808.9731.1@webmail05.vgs.untd.com>


It's phone line not network.

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Tony Bemus <tony at bemushosting.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Cc: discuss at mug.org
Subject: [Discuss] Re: [mdlug] Free: phone wire
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 19:21:19 -0400

is it cat 3 or cat 5?


On Thu, 2010-06-17 at 19:29 +0000, gib at juno.com wrote:
> Does anyone need any phone wire?  A guy on my work team just sold his house. So, he is cleaning out the stuff.  He has a "half a spool" (a spool is 1,000 feet) of "silver lead" phone wire.  He said this is the good quality wire not the cheap beige color type.
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> Get Free Email with Video Mail & Video Chat!
> http://www.juno.com/freeemail?refcd=JUTAGOUT1FREM0210
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
Discuss at mug.org
http://www.mug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss


____________________________________________________________
Online Auction Tricks EXPOSED
Reporter Uncovers Shocking Online Auction Tricks!
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From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Thu Jun 17 21:48:35 2010
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 21:48:35 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] [Discuss] Re: Free: phone wire
In-Reply-To: <20100617.195808.9731.1@webmail05.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20100617.195808.9731.1@webmail05.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTilwu09BIx-C1uXnawyFkERX42nJD3OGyg22lhKG@mail.gmail.com>

--- Gib wrote:

>>> Does anyone need any phone wire?

>> is it cat 3 or cat 5?

> It's phone line, not network.

Actually, "Cat 3" applies to multiple-twisted-pair phone wire.  It
would be marked as such.

~~ Michael Rudas
   My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
   My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/protop
   http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey


From gib at juno.com  Wed Jun 23 20:04:36 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 00:04:36 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] FYI: Learning in the Linux Community
Message-ID: <20100623.200436.8724.0@webmail04.vgs.untd.com>


FYI

Please note: forwarded message attached

From: Don Davis <dd1263 at txstate.edu>
To: president at mdlug.org
Subject: Learning in the Linux Community
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 02:59:16 +0000


____________________________________________________________
TODAY: iPads for $23.74?
SPECIAL REPORT: iPads are being auctioned for an incredible 80% off!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4c22a13bbce6a1d3aast02vuc
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From: Don Davis <dd1263 at txstate.edu>
Subject: Learning in the Linux Community
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 02:59:16 +0000
Size: 4437
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From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Thu Jun 24 14:32:09 2010
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 14:32:09 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] New distro, worth a look
Message-ID: <AANLkTim9PTkwKmcaKiL6NgyvrWSp1dThYwO4lPRIr55n@mail.gmail.com>

I just ran into a new-to-me distro that seems worthy.  It's called Xange:
http://xange.sf.net

It's based on Fedora with KDE 4.4 and the live CD looks pretty
complete, including VLC and Flash.  The ISO is nominally a bit large
for a standard 700MB CD, but it overburned with no problems using
ImgBurn under Windows (my favorite CD/DVD burning software for that
platform), so I suppose that K3B and Brasero should work fine, too.

~~ Michael Rudas
   My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
   My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/protop
   http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey


From danno at umich.edu  Fri Jun 25 00:09:52 2010
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 00:09:52 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] New distro, worth a look
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTim9PTkwKmcaKiL6NgyvrWSp1dThYwO4lPRIr55n@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTim9PTkwKmcaKiL6NgyvrWSp1dThYwO4lPRIr55n@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100625040952.GA69413@maniac.deathstar.org>

How is it better than standard fedora?  

On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 02:32:09PM -0400, Michael Rudas wrote:
> I just ran into a new-to-me distro that seems worthy.  It's called Xange:
> http://xange.sf.net
> 
> It's based on Fedora with KDE 4.4 and the live CD looks pretty
> complete, including VLC and Flash.  The ISO is nominally a bit large
> for a standard 700MB CD, but it overburned with no problems using
> ImgBurn under Windows (my favorite CD/DVD burning software for that
> platform), so I suppose that K3B and Brasero should work fine, too.
> 
> ~~ Michael Rudas
>    My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
>    My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/protop
>    http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From tesral at wowway.com  Fri Jun 25 00:15:29 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 00:15:29 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Webserver
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTim9PTkwKmcaKiL6NgyvrWSp1dThYwO4lPRIr55n@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTim9PTkwKmcaKiL6NgyvrWSp1dThYwO4lPRIr55n@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C242D61.7050006@wowway.com>

I am considering setting up one of my older computers as an Intranet web
server   Anything I need to do (other than obviously run Apache) and
connect it to the network? 

I'm not looking for Internet accessibility.  (Can't afford the fixed IP
for starters.)

I have never run a web server or configured one.  Yes, I'm still using
openSUSE and don't plan to stop.


-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Those persons, or societies, easily offended need to be offended until they get over it.
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From gib at juno.com  Fri Jun 25 07:39:29 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 11:39:29 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] [Discuss] detroitnet.org
Message-ID: <20100625.073929.2165.0@webmail01.vgs.untd.com>

FYI

---------- Forwarded Message ----------
From: "Jorge O. Castro" <jorge at ubuntu.com>
To: "For discussing Unix/Linux related topics" <discuss at mug.org>, Ubuntu Michigan Local Community Team <ubuntu-us-mi at lists.ubuntu.com>
Subject: [Discuss] detroitnet.org
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 22:26:56 -0400

Hi everyone,

I ran into this on twitter, this group called detroitnet.org. It's
basically a group of people who meet together to find jobs for people,
and to find people for jobs. Odd right? How could a geek group like
this exist without us knowing about it? Surely if someone was looking
for Linux geeks they would know to check out LUGs right? Well, maybe
not so much.

So on IRC I mentioned it to Craig and Rick and some others that I
might stop by and check it out, and it seemed really odd, it sounds
like the typical recruitment show thing or some lame "job fair" crap.
I decided to check it out today;  so I conned Ken from OU to come
along because I didn't want to go by myself, so we went down to
BlackFinn in Royal Oak to see what it's like. I met the guy who
started it, and as it ends up, the entire thing is an anti-"jobs fair
crap" affair. I met some serious people from serious companies looking
for serious Linux admins. I think members from LUGs around the area
could find this kind of thing useful to find good Linux work, and from
my initial meeting, it looks like there is plenty of demand for Linux
work out there.

Ok so, there were some headhunters, but overall it wasn't so bad.
They're apparently they're big on LinkedIn (I don't use it myself),
but there seemed to be plenty of interest for people with Linux
experience, so I thought I'd pass it along to people. I was frankly
shocked at the people looking for Linux talent who had never heard of
any of the local LUGs, so I think this is an excellent opportunity to
reach out to other geek groups in Detroit.

Unfortunately they seemed to be tied in to LinkedIn, however they have
a blog at http://www.detroitnet.org and the guy who runs it (Dave
Phillips) seems to be a solid dude running the whole thing. We should
collectively probably try to get these people more tied into the local
bits, I plan to do my part by participating in their events more (and
damn, I didn't bring my mug.org cards!)

Please feel free to cross post this to mdlug and washlug mailing lists...

--
jorge
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
Discuss at mug.org
http://www.mug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
____________________________________________________________
Refinance Now 4.0% FIXED!
$160,000 Mortgage for $633/mo. Free. No Obligation. Get 4 Quotes!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4c2495b691e30543fest01vuc


From gib at juno.com  Fri Jun 25 11:11:20 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 15:11:20 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] [Discuss] detroitnet.org
Message-ID: <20100625.111120.29805.0@webmail24.vgs.untd.com>

I see their next event is a "Pink Slip Party" - Cool idea.  This will be July 15th at the Novi Post Bar. 

I think I may show up even though I have a job just for the fun of it. Or, you know, to promote the MDLUG.org group.

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Jorge O. Castro" <jorge at ubuntu.com>
To: "For discussing Unix/Linux related topics" <discuss at mug.org>, Ubuntu Michigan Local Community Team <ubuntu-us-mi at lists.ubuntu.com>
Subject: [Discuss] detroitnet.org
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 22:26:56 -0400

Hi everyone,

I ran into this on twitter, this group called detroitnet.org. It's
basically a group of people who meet together to find jobs for people,
and to find people for jobs. Odd right? How could a geek group like
this exist without us knowing about it? Surely if someone was looking
for Linux geeks they would know to check out LUGs right? Well, maybe
not so much.

So on IRC I mentioned it to Craig and Rick and some others that I
might stop by and check it out, and it seemed really odd, it sounds
like the typical recruitment show thing or some lame "job fair" crap.
I decided to check it out today;  so I conned Ken from OU to come
along because I didn't want to go by myself, so we went down to
BlackFinn in Royal Oak to see what it's like. I met the guy who
started it, and as it ends up, the entire thing is an anti-"jobs fair
crap" affair. I met some serious people from serious companies looking
for serious Linux admins. I think members from LUGs around the area
could find this kind of thing useful to find good Linux work, and from
my initial meeting, it looks like there is plenty of demand for Linux
work out there.

Ok so, there were some headhunters, but overall it wasn't so bad.
They're apparently they're big on LinkedIn (I don't use it myself),
but there seemed to be plenty of interest for people with Linux
experience, so I thought I'd pass it along to people. I was frankly
shocked at the people looking for Linux talent who had never heard of
any of the local LUGs, so I think this is an excellent opportunity to
reach out to other geek groups in Detroit.

Unfortunately they seemed to be tied in to LinkedIn, however they have
a blog at http://www.detroitnet.org and the guy who runs it (Dave
Phillips) seems to be a solid dude running the whole thing. We should
collectively probably try to get these people more tied into the local
bits, I plan to do my part by participating in their events more (and
damn, I didn't bring my mug.org cards!)

Please feel free to cross post this to mdlug and washlug mailing lists...

--
jorge
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
Discuss at mug.org
http://www.mug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
____________________________________________________________
Penny Stock Jumping 2000%
Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4c24c74e6de33503c50st04vuc


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Fri Jun 25 11:31:54 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 11:31:54 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Webserver
In-Reply-To: <4C242D61.7050006@wowway.com>
References: <AANLkTim9PTkwKmcaKiL6NgyvrWSp1dThYwO4lPRIr55n@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C242D61.7050006@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <4C24CBEA.8010901@gmail.com>

Garry Stahl wrote:
> I am considering setting up one of my older computers as an Intranet web
> server   Anything I need to do (other than obviously run Apache) and
> connect it to the network? 
> 
> I'm not looking for Internet accessibility.  (Can't afford the fixed IP
> for starters.)
> 

If you want internet accessibility, configure your router to forward
all http requests to the 192.169.x.y IP that you assign to it.
[all 192.168....  addresses are never routable over the general
internet, as they are reserved space for private networks, such
as any household network].

> I have never run a web server or configured one.  Yes, I'm still using
> openSUSE and don't plan to stop.
> 
> 




From jjn at nuge.com  Fri Jun 25 20:33:16 2010
From: jjn at nuge.com (Jay Nugent)
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 20:33:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] MM: Youtube Wins - MP3tunes (and Apple?) Cheer (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.1006252033020.877-100000@home.nuge.com>


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 12:03:41 -0700
From: Michael Robertson <noreply at michaelrobertson.com>
To: jjn at nuge.com
Subject: MM: Youtube Wins - MP3tunes (and Apple?) Cheer

If this message is not displaying properly, visit www.michaelrobertson.com to launch it in your browser.

---------------------------------
Youtube Wins - MP3tunes (and Apple?) Cheer
---------------------------------

Youtube prevailed [1] in their billion dollar battle with Viacom who had accused them of copyright infringement. While Google (Youtube's parent), is surely pleased so are others who have similar services or are contemplating them. Here's some reasons to cheer this new legal development:

The law gives responsible net companies protection from copyright liability.

Youtube's defense is a law called the DMCA [2] which protects companies on the net who engage in fundamental operations like caching data, operating search engines and storing material for users. They get this protection if they act responsibly by responding to takedown notices sent to them. This ruling affirms that words in the law are clear and they mean what they say.

All arguments about why Youtube wasn't protected were soundly rejected.

Viacom complained that Youtube does replication, transmittal and display which are not "storage". The Judge found that Viacom was defining "storage" too narrowly and that "providing access to information and material" was "basic, vital and salutary function". [He didn't explicitly say but he implied that storage would be meaningless if you couldn't retrieve the information once stored.]

Viacom said that Youtube didn't remove repeat infringers but the court found their policies to be reasonable.

Viacom stated that Youtube received a financial benefit directly attributed to the infringing activity but the Judge expounded that Youtube had to know of a "particular case" of infringing activity which they did not and therefore they did not receive a direct benefit.

Viacom protested that Youtube removes only the material in a takedown notice and not other clips that might infringe the same work. The Judge quoted extensively how takedown requests must include a URL or other specific information to locate the work.

West coast and East coast courts have reached nearly identical conclusions.

The Youtube case closely mirrors the Veoh ruling which involved a video hosting site based in San Diego. Universal Music Group sued Veoh for copyright infringement for hosting video files and Veoh used as their defense the DMCA. The Judge found in Veoh's favor [3] in the 9th district (covering California). The Youtube case was in the 2nd district (covering New York) so there's similar thinking across the country. In fact the NY case cited the Veoh case 9 times.

More positive precedence for other net companies (like MP3tunes) accused of copyright infringement.

Major record label EMI is accusing my company MP3tunes of copyright infringement for both our cloud music storage and our search engine Sideload.com [4]. EMI's arguments parallel Viacom's against Youtube. Since we're in the same court house as the Youtube case we can now reference the Youtube ruling in our case which will bolster our position.

Others considering cloud music and video have been reticent but should now be emboldened.

I recently got a call from a reporter who was working on a story about how the legal uncertainty around music and video lockers was preventing many companies from investing in this area. That's understandable given the pending suits but the Youtube ruling adds clarity to the picture. I expect to see several new entrants - perhaps even Apple who needs a cloud music service to get music to all of their i devices without cabling up to the aging PC as an intermediary as they do now.

Appeals are on the horizon.

Precedence is definitely building with the Veoh victory [3] and now Youtube's triumph [1]. However, the losing side in both cases has vowed to appeal. UMG has filed the initial appellate brief [5] but it was rejected as too long and they are in the process of refiling a shortened version. One would hope the appellate court has a similar analysis of these issues. With so much at stake for technology companies and media companies it's not unreasonable to project that one of these cases ends up in front of the US Supreme Court.

MP3tunes case filings are due in August, ruling later this year on personal cloud music?

After about 3 years we're nearly at a stage where the Judge gets an opportunity to hand down a ruling in the MP3tunes case (similar to what the Judge did with Youtube and Veoh). EMI has consistently asked for delays which has elongated the process (and made it more expensive). I think they hoped that it would exhaust our conviction or money as it often has with small digital music companies forcing a crushing settlement (imeem) or shutdown/bankruptcy (multiply, seeqpod). The delay has not shaken our resolve. We'll continue to battle for the right for personal cloud music. Thanks to all the MP3tunes customers who support us.

--MR
michael at michaelrobertson.com

p.s. - MP3tunes is now offering 10GB free lockers. Sign-up on the invite list [6] to get yours.

---------------------------------
Links in this edition:
---------------------------------

1. http://www.scribd.com/doc/33505175/Youtube-Wins-Case-Against-Viacom
2. http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html#512
3. http://www.scribd.com/doc/9746279/UMG-v-Veoh-PSJ-Order
4. http://www.sideload.com/
5. http://www.scribd.com/doc/32546835/UMG-v-Veoh-9th-Opening-Brief
6. http://www.mp3tunes.com/invite

To discuss this topic with others, click here! http://michaelrobertson.yuku.com/topic/453


The views expressed herein are those of Michael Robertson and do not necessarily reflect the views of any of his affiliated companies.

This email was sent to jjn at nuge.com. Please be sure to use this email address when updating your mailing list options. If you do not wish to receive further communications you may change your mailing list options by going to http://michaelrobertson.com/manage.php 

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(c) 2010. All rights reserved. 



From elcarew at sbcglobal.net  Sat Jun 26 09:30:27 2010
From: elcarew at sbcglobal.net (Evan Carew)
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2010 09:30:27 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Webserver
In-Reply-To: <4C24CBEA.8010901@gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTim9PTkwKmcaKiL6NgyvrWSp1dThYwO4lPRIr55n@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C242D61.7050006@wowway.com> <4C24CBEA.8010901@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C2600F3.2020107@sbcglobal.net>

Aaron,

If you want a fixed IP, do what many of us do, and go to one of those
dynamic DNS services. They'll provide you with a DNS listing for about
15.00 per year. Then, all you do, is have your router communicate with
it so your most current IP address is kept up to date in your listing.
Most routers have this as an option.


On 06/25/2010 11:31 AM, Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> Garry Stahl wrote:
>   
>> I am considering setting up one of my older computers as an Intranet web
>> server   Anything I need to do (other than obviously run Apache) and
>> connect it to the network? 
>>
>> I'm not looking for Internet accessibility.  (Can't afford the fixed IP
>> for starters.)
>>
>>     
>   



From raymond.s.mclaughlin at gmail.com  Sat Jun 26 16:19:20 2010
From: raymond.s.mclaughlin at gmail.com (Raymond S McLaughlin)
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2010 16:19:20 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] MM: Youtube Wins - MP3tunes (and Apple?) Cheer (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.1006252033020.877-100000@home.nuge.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.1006252033020.877-100000@home.nuge.com>
Message-ID: <4C2660C8.9020907@gmail.com>

Yay!
<SNIP>


From carl at carltm.com  Sun Jun 27 07:12:56 2010
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 07:12:56 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Webserver
In-Reply-To: <4C242D61.7050006@wowway.com>
References: <AANLkTim9PTkwKmcaKiL6NgyvrWSp1dThYwO4lPRIr55n@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C242D61.7050006@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <37d83cf0d85acd20739d38abc6985f2b.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

Garry Stahl wrote:
> I am considering setting up one of my older computers as an Intranet web
> server   Anything I need to do (other than obviously run Apache) and
> connect it to the network?

That's pretty much it, unless you want to give others the
ability to manage files or if you need other components
such as php, mysql or ssl.  If you're running a firewall
just check that port 80 is open.

> I'm not looking for Internet accessibility.  (Can't afford the fixed IP
> for starters.)

There are some inexpensive web hosting sites if you want
to do that.

> I have never run a web server or configured one.  Yes, I'm still using
> openSUSE and don't plan to stop.

OpenSUSE should have everything you need to get it going.
Good luck!

c




From petertheplumber at att.net  Mon Jun 28 16:48:33 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 16:48:33 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] What Distro f/Asus T91MT Touchscreen w/GMA500 Chip
Message-ID: <20100628164833.60fef7f3@Nokia-N800-43-7>

Hi Everyone,
    Has anyone gotten single touch touch screen working on an Asus T91(MT)? I've been trying to get UNR  9.10 working to my satisfaction on one with a GMA500 chip and I get close but no cigar. I got the touchscreen working but then found out I can't suspend with a mounted sd card, and that's where I had /swap. I reinstalled putting /swap on the ssd  but now wireless won't wake up from suspend even with the backport modules. I'm okay with the low resolution  for now, but not with the slow as mollasses UNR menu. I've seen tantalizing references to Mandriva coming with support for the GMA500, but not evtouch. Could be all I have to do is install it from from the repo's? Of course there's openSUSE to consider, but I haven't looked real hard.  I'm ready to trade the finger friendly UNR menu for anything that works. I  can allways supersize the toolbar. Or do I simply need to pull on my tinfoil hat tighter? Anyone care to comment?

Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber
Sent from a mobile Internet Tablet


From petertheplumber at att.net  Mon Jun 28 16:57:02 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 16:57:02 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Intel GMA500 No Love f/Linux
Message-ID: <20100628165702.0902f28b@Nokia-N800-43-7>

    How Intel can put out something like the GMA500 chip; while working
    on Moblin and now Meego; is beyond me. What a mess!
<http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/how-kick-your-friends-face-gma500>
<http://forums.opensuse.org/news/tech-news/424370-warning-please-don-t-buy-intel-gma500.html>
-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber
Sent from a mobile Internet Tablet


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Mon Jun 28 18:11:48 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 18:11:48 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Intel GMA500 No Love f/Linux
In-Reply-To: <20100628165702.0902f28b@Nokia-N800-43-7>
References: <20100628165702.0902f28b@Nokia-N800-43-7>
Message-ID: <4C291E24.1090003@gmail.com>

Peter Bart wrote:
>     How Intel can put out something like the GMA500 chip; while working
>     on Moblin and now Meego; is beyond me. What a mess!
> <http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/how-kick-your-friends-face-gma500>
> <http://forums.opensuse.org/news/tech-news/424370-warning-please-don-t-buy-intel-gma500.html>

Intel's strategy has always been "if you can't make a better
CPU than the competition [cyrix, AMD, etc.], then muddy the
waters and confuse the customers."


From jbroughton at twmi.rr.com  Mon Jun 28 20:21:56 2010
From: jbroughton at twmi.rr.com (Jim Broughton)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 20:21:56 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] KDE 4
Message-ID: <4C293CA4.1000608@twmi.rr.com>

I just recently installed Slackware 13.1 and have my second look
at the KDE 4 series desktop. I am appalled at what I see.
After 3 years thats all they have to show. I think that they should have
gone with a dual track, refining 3.5 while putting 4 into usable shape. 
While
KDE 4  looks pretty it is harder to configure than the older 3.5 series
I was used to under Slack 12.2. It lacks a lot the programs that
were available under 3.5. The default menu system just plain sucks.
I guess their objective was to dumb it down a bit for the normal user 
but at the
same time the fallout has been that a power user is left with a system that
just plain is not fun to use or configure.
I have kept in mind that Slackware does a minimal amount of
configuration work on the desktop software so that what you see is pretty
much what the KDE team released. I was so annoyed by it I downgraded
(upgraded?) my Laptop to the XFCE desktop. I will probably have to
compile/build KDE 3.5 for it.  Anyone else here using KDE 4 for
your desktop? Opinions?


Jim



From jbroughton at twmi.rr.com  Mon Jun 28 20:29:29 2010
From: jbroughton at twmi.rr.com (Jim Broughton)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 20:29:29 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] [MDLUG] KDE 4
Message-ID: <4C293E69.1090104@twmi.rr.com>

I just recently installed Slackware 13.1 and have my second look
at the KDE 4 series desktop. I am appalled at what I see.
After 3 years thats all they have to show. I think that they should have
gone with a dual track, refining 3.5 while putting 4 into usable shape.
While
KDE 4  looks pretty it is harder to configure than the older 3.5 series
I was used to under Slack 12.2. It lacks a lot the programs that
were available under 3.5. The default menu system just plain sucks.
I guess their objective was to dumb it down a bit for the normal user
but at the
same time the fallout has been that a power user is left with a system that
just plain is not fun to use or configure.
I have kept in mind that Slackware does a minimal amount of
configuration work on the desktop software so that what you see is pretty
much what the KDE team released. I was so annoyed by it I downgraded
(upgraded?) my Laptop to the XFCE desktop. I will probably have to
compile/build KDE 3.5 for it.  Anyone else here using KDE 4 for
your desktop? Opinions?


Jim




From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Jun 28 20:34:36 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 20:34:36 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] KDE 4
In-Reply-To: <4C293CA4.1000608@twmi.rr.com>
References: <4C293CA4.1000608@twmi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTilVu3nT3inw3uMalh4qQfCfUmpfU3G1jIij_1zr@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 8:21 PM, Jim Broughton <jbroughton at twmi.rr.com> wrote:
> I was so annoyed by it I downgraded
> (upgraded?) my Laptop to the XFCE desktop. I will probably have to
> compile/build KDE 3.5 for it. ?Anyone else here using KDE 4 for
> your desktop? Opinions?
>

My mother was using KDE 3.5 (since Mandrake) and when I updated it
Kubuntu 9.04 (Jaunty Jackalope) she didn't like it.  I changed the
desktop to XFCE and she's happy now.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Jun 28 20:36:49 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 20:36:49 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] KDE 4
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTilVu3nT3inw3uMalh4qQfCfUmpfU3G1jIij_1zr@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4C293CA4.1000608@twmi.rr.com>
	<AANLkTilVu3nT3inw3uMalh4qQfCfUmpfU3G1jIij_1zr@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTils6USq93UIDxcJEPLjBo52Pfv-7LIGmlPDFh84@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 8:34 PM, Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com> wrote:
> My mother was using KDE 3.5 (since Mandrake) and when I updated it
> Kubuntu 9.04 (Jaunty Jackalope) she didn't like it. ?I changed the
> desktop to XFCE and she's happy now.
>

For the record, I use Gnome on Ubuntu.  It was the default when I
switched form Mandriva.  I've found it easier to use.  I'm a power
user but I don't like to spend a lot of time tweaking a desktop for
marginal increases in productivity.


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Mon Jun 28 22:37:30 2010
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 22:37:30 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] KDE 4
In-Reply-To: <4C293CA4.1000608@twmi.rr.com>
References: <4C293CA4.1000608@twmi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTilSFTSJT_6oX5lDjlhU60PXCDspSG1Rl1YqaNRP@mail.gmail.com>

--- Jim Broughton wrote:

> I just recently installed Slackware 13.1 and have my second look
> at the KDE 4 series desktop. I am appalled at what I see.

What rev level of KDE 4?  Current is 4.4.3 -- earlier versions are not
as polished -- but, frankly, I like KDE 4 just fine and prefer it over
GNOME.  I use it every day, just as I have used every version of KDE 3
from v3.0 forward.

Is it perfect? No, but I am learning to tweak it to suit my needs.
Progress IS progress, after all.

~~ Michael Rudas
   My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
   My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/protop
   http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Mon Jun 28 23:04:15 2010
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 23:04:15 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Intel GMA500 No Love f/Linux
In-Reply-To: <20100628165702.0902f28b@Nokia-N800-43-7>
References: <20100628165702.0902f28b@Nokia-N800-43-7>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinF8cfE0vU1glSs3MwP4cdGg2NM0onvCEp0-OOV@mail.gmail.com>

--- Peter Bart wrote:

> How Intel can put out something like the GMA500 chip; while working
> on Moblin and now Meego; is beyond me. What a mess!

This kind of thing is one of the many reasons that I use and recommend
AMD instead.  I've NEVER trusted Intel in the 30+ years I've worked
with CPUs.  I do realize that most current netbooks use either Intel
or ARM variants (including the upcoming nVidia Tegra series) but there
are AMD-based netbooks and tablets on the way.

~~ Michael Rudas
   My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
   My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/protop
   http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Mon Jun 28 23:33:18 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 23:33:18 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] KDE 4
In-Reply-To: <4C293CA4.1000608@twmi.rr.com>
References: <4C293CA4.1000608@twmi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <4C29697E.2010802@gmail.com>

Jim Broughton wrote:
> I just recently installed Slackware 13.1 and have my second look
> at the KDE 4 series desktop. I am appalled at what I see.
> After 3 years thats all they have to show. I think that they should have
> gone with a dual track, refining 3.5 while putting 4 into usable shape. 
> While
> KDE 4  looks pretty it is harder to configure than the older 3.5 series
> I was used to under Slack 12.2. It lacks a lot the programs that
> were available under 3.5. The default menu system just plain sucks.
> I guess their objective was to dumb it down a bit for the normal user 
> but at the
> same time the fallout has been that a power user is left with a system that
> just plain is not fun to use or configure.
> I have kept in mind that Slackware does a minimal amount of
> configuration work on the desktop software so that what you see is pretty
> much what the KDE team released. I was so annoyed by it I downgraded
> (upgraded?) my Laptop to the XFCE desktop. I will probably have to
> compile/build KDE 3.5 for it.  Anyone else here using KDE 4 for
> your desktop? Opinions?

project leader Aaron Segio is a pathological liar, and I will never trust
ANYTHING associated with this man.

For instance, the KDE team propaganda, lead by Segio, state
that KDE4 was a complete rewrite from the bottom up -- this
being the excuse for normal desktop interactions which we have
all come to know and love in KDE 3.5..

...and yet segio (too cool for capital letters) stated on his
blog words to the effect of "finally, after a lot of work, I've
ripped all the desktop icons code out of KDE4" 

What code is there to "rip out" if their story that they
were "building from the ground up" were true, and they were
not re-using KDE 3.5 code.

Additionally, many of the photos that the man PUTS ON HIS
OWN website indicate a total jack*** with a completely
flippant attitude.

KDE is becoming the NetBSD of the Linux world. :-(


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Jun 28 23:39:37 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 23:39:37 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Intel GMA500 No Love f/Linux
In-Reply-To: <20100628165702.0902f28b@Nokia-N800-43-7>
References: <20100628165702.0902f28b@Nokia-N800-43-7>
Message-ID: <AANLkTiliOS7bEy3mGgjFlhmbEwHeuE7kUfAscvLE_qPM@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 4:57 PM, Peter Bart <petertheplumber at att.net> wrote:
>    How Intel can put out something like the GMA500 chip; while working
>    on Moblin and now Meego; is beyond me. What a mess!
> <http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/how-kick-your-friends-face-gma500>
> <http://forums.opensuse.org/news/tech-news/424370-warning-please-don-t-buy-intel-gma500.html>
>

Simple analysis:
Intel 3D is garbage.
AMD and Nvidia have 3D chipsets but are competitors.
PowerVR was their solution.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_GMA#GMA_500

It could have been a SiS or Via/S3 solution which are just as bad:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S3_Chrome
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Integrated_Systems


From jbroughton at twmi.rr.com  Mon Jun 28 23:48:43 2010
From: jbroughton at twmi.rr.com (Jim Broughton)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 23:48:43 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] KDE 4
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTilSFTSJT_6oX5lDjlhU60PXCDspSG1Rl1YqaNRP@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4C293CA4.1000608@twmi.rr.com>
	<AANLkTilSFTSJT_6oX5lDjlhU60PXCDspSG1Rl1YqaNRP@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C296D1B.3060409@twmi.rr.com>

Progress just for the sake of progress is not progressive. :-)
It is KDE 4.4.3. Or was. It's gone now. The KDE team will
have to polish this turd a bit more before I will find it useful.
I have been a KDE user since version 1.1. Ages ago.

Now that I have messed with things a bit. I have found that I could
install the 3.5.10 version of KDE from the Slackware 12.2 version disks on a
13.1 install. Provided you delete all of qt4 and kde 4.4.3. Yes it runs
just beautifully thank you very much. I have not tested all the apps under
it just the ones I used and they all function as intended.
HOWEVER this is on a 32bit system with a pentium 4 processor.
 The 64 bit version of the Slackware 13.1 install I have in testing on my
Desktop machine will require a rather lengthy compile session with
the KDE 3.5.10 source code plus a few libraries that KDE4 does not use.
There is of course a companion 64 Slack alike system made by a separate
developer maybe his 12.2 64 bit version will install on 13.1.
Might have to give that a try.

Jim


Michael Rudas wrote:
>  --- Jim Broughton wrote:
>
> > I just recently installed Slackware 13.1 and have my second look at
> > the KDE 4 series desktop. I am appalled at what I see.
>
>  What rev level of KDE 4?  Current is 4.4.3 -- earlier versions are
>  not as polished -- but, frankly, I like KDE 4 just fine and prefer it
>  over GNOME.  I use it every day, just as I have used every version of
>  KDE 3 from v3.0 forward.
>
>  Is it perfect? No, but I am learning to tweak it to suit my needs.
>  Progress IS progress, after all.
>
>  ~~ Michael Rudas My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com My Protopage
>  links: http://TinyURL.com/protop http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey
>  _______________________________________________ mdlug mailing list
>  mdlug at mdlug.org http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>




From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Mon Jun 28 23:51:00 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 23:51:00 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Intel GMA500 No Love f/Linux
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinF8cfE0vU1glSs3MwP4cdGg2NM0onvCEp0-OOV@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100628165702.0902f28b@Nokia-N800-43-7>
	<AANLkTinF8cfE0vU1glSs3MwP4cdGg2NM0onvCEp0-OOV@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C296DA4.3040600@gmail.com>

Michael Rudas wrote:
> --- Peter Bart wrote:
> 
>> How Intel can put out something like the GMA500 chip; while working
>> on Moblin and now Meego; is beyond me. What a mess!
> 
> This kind of thing is one of the many reasons that I use and recommend
> AMD instead.  I've NEVER trusted Intel in the 30+ years I've worked
> with CPUs.  I do realize that most current netbooks use either Intel
> or ARM variants (including the upcoming nVidia Tegra series) but there
> are AMD-based netbooks and tablets on the way.
>

I remember seeing some data books for product offering by
Intel and AMD back in the mid-80's.  Advanced Micro-Devices
certainly live up to their audacious name compared to Intel's
run-of-the-mill slop.

It's too bad the Motorola 68x00 series died a premature death
due to not inferior hardware, but due to the criminal actions of
Microsoft, and MS-DOS and MS-Windows running only on Intel CPUs.


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Mon Jun 28 23:52:15 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 23:52:15 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] KDE 4
In-Reply-To: <4C296D1B.3060409@twmi.rr.com>
References: <4C293CA4.1000608@twmi.rr.com>	<AANLkTilSFTSJT_6oX5lDjlhU60PXCDspSG1Rl1YqaNRP@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C296D1B.3060409@twmi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <4C296DEF.8020004@gmail.com>

Jim Broughton wrote:
> Progress just for the sake of progress is not progressive. :-)
> It is KDE 4.4.3. Or was. It's gone now. The KDE team will
> have to polish this turd a bit more before I will find it useful.
> I have been a KDE user since version 1.1. Ages ago.
> 
> Now that I have messed with things a bit. I have found that I could
> install the 3.5.10 version of KDE from the Slackware 12.2 version disks on a
> 13.1 install. Provided you delete all of qt4 and kde 4.4.3. Yes it runs
> just beautifully thank you very much. I have not tested all the apps under
> it just the ones I used and they all function as intended.
> HOWEVER this is on a 32bit system with a pentium 4 processor.
>  The 64 bit version of the Slackware 13.1 install I have in testing on my
> Desktop machine will require a rather lengthy compile session with
> the KDE 3.5.10 source code plus a few libraries that KDE4 does not use.
> There is of course a companion 64 Slack alike system made by a separate
> developer maybe his 12.2 64 bit version will install on 13.1.
> Might have to give that a try.
> 

Please keep us informed of the results.

> Jim
> 
> 
> Michael Rudas wrote:
>>  --- Jim Broughton wrote:
>>
>>> I just recently installed Slackware 13.1 and have my second look at
>>> the KDE 4 series desktop. I am appalled at what I see.
>>  What rev level of KDE 4?  Current is 4.4.3 -- earlier versions are
>>  not as polished -- but, frankly, I like KDE 4 just fine and prefer it
>>  over GNOME.  I use it every day, just as I have used every version of
>>  KDE 3 from v3.0 forward.
>>
>>  Is it perfect? No, but I am learning to tweak it to suit my needs.
>>  Progress IS progress, after all.
>>
>>  ~~ Michael Rudas My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com My Protopage
>>  links: http://TinyURL.com/protop http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey
>>  _______________________________________________ mdlug mailing list
>>  mdlug at mdlug.org http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Tue Jun 29 00:47:35 2010
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 00:47:35 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Intel GMA500 No Love f/Linux
In-Reply-To: <4C296DA4.3040600@gmail.com>
References: <20100628165702.0902f28b@Nokia-N800-43-7>
	<AANLkTinF8cfE0vU1glSs3MwP4cdGg2NM0onvCEp0-OOV@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C296DA4.3040600@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTiktmTk_Lk6PJybtiyr2Eu820WnlbkiRH75-j5XY@mail.gmail.com>

--- Aaron Kulkis wrote:

> I remember seeing some data books for product offering by
> Intel and AMD back in the mid-80's. ?Advanced Micro-Devices
> certainly live up to their audacious name compared to Intel's
> run-of-the-mill slop.

Jerry Sanders, founder of Advanced Micro Devices, was one of the
"Traitorous 8" that William Shockley hired to create the Shockley
Transistor Company in the mid-'50s (the single act that created
Silicon Valley).  After they left Fairchild Semiconductor as a group
to form Intelligent Electronics (later Intel), Sanders had a falling
out with the others and formed AMD as much to spite the others as
anything else.  This is one reason why the relationship between the
two companies has been so rancorous at times.

> It's too bad the Motorola 68x00 series died a premature death
> due to not inferior hardware, but due to the criminal actions of
> Microsoft, and MS-DOS and MS-Windows running only on Intel CPUs.

Ummmm, no.  The 680x0 series died because it wasn't scalable. Due to
architectural limitations (mostly timing issues), chips wouldn't run
with a clock speed faster than about 50MHz or so.  The follow-on 880x0
RISC series failed in the marketplace, but when pieces of it were
combined with IBM's RISC technology, it became the PowerPC series of
CPUs.

I'm just glad that Linux is scalable and flexible enough to run on
almost anything.

~~ Michael Rudas
   My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
   My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/protop
   http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Tue Jun 29 08:45:44 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 05:45:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Intel GMA500 No Love f/Linux
In-Reply-To: <4C296DA4.3040600@gmail.com>
References: <20100628165702.0902f28b@Nokia-N800-43-7>
	<AANLkTinF8cfE0vU1glSs3MwP4cdGg2NM0onvCEp0-OOV@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C296DA4.3040600@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <604602.65242.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Well, Intel needs a competitor to keep them honest, AMD is the reason that we have 64 bit for under $100.



________________________________
From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Mon, June 28, 2010 11:51:00 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Intel GMA500 No Love f/Linux

Michael Rudas wrote:
> --- Peter Bart wrote:
> 
>> How Intel can put out something like the GMA500 chip; while working
>> on Moblin and now Meego; is beyond me. What a mess!
> 
> This kind of thing is one of the many reasons that I use and recommend
> AMD instead.? I've NEVER trusted Intel in the 30+ years I've worked
> with CPUs.? I do realize that most current netbooks use either Intel
> or ARM variants (including the upcoming nVidia Tegra series) but there
> are AMD-based netbooks and tablets on the way.
>

I remember seeing some data books for product offering by
Intel and AMD back in the mid-80's.? Advanced Micro-Devices
certainly live up to their audacious name compared to Intel's
run-of-the-mill slop.

It's too bad the Motorola 68x00 series died a premature death
due to not inferior hardware, but due to the criminal actions of
Microsoft, and MS-DOS and MS-Windows running only on Intel CPUs.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Tue Jun 29 09:05:28 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 06:05:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] KDE 4
In-Reply-To: <4C296DEF.8020004@gmail.com>
References: <4C293CA4.1000608@twmi.rr.com>
	<AANLkTilSFTSJT_6oX5lDjlhU60PXCDspSG1Rl1YqaNRP@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C296D1B.3060409@twmi.rr.com> <4C296DEF.8020004@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <603058.54323.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I use KDE. I hope that the team keeps in mind that people are on windows because they have it seems, no other choice.

And with the flop of vista I'm surprized that we did not get more migration to Linux KDE or Gnome.

David C. Lane 



________________________________
From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Mon, June 28, 2010 11:52:15 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] KDE 4

Jim Broughton wrote:
> Progress just for the sake of progress is not progressive. :-)
> It is KDE 4.4.3. Or was. It's gone now. The KDE team will
> have to polish this turd a bit more before I will find it useful.
> I have been a KDE user since version 1.1. Ages ago.
> 
> Now that I have messed with things a bit. I have found that I could
> install the 3.5.10 version of KDE from the Slackware 12.2 version disks on a
> 13.1 install. Provided you delete all of qt4 and kde 4.4.3. Yes it runs
> just beautifully thank you very much. I have not tested all the apps under
> it just the ones I used and they all function as intended.
> HOWEVER this is on a 32bit system with a pentium 4 processor.
>? The 64 bit version of the Slackware 13.1 install I have in testing on my
> Desktop machine will require a rather lengthy compile session with
> the KDE 3.5.10 source code plus a few libraries that KDE4 does not use.
> There is of course a companion 64 Slack alike system made by a separate
> developer maybe his 12.2 64 bit version will install on 13.1.
> Might have to give that a try.
> 

Please keep us informed of the results.

> Jim
> 
> 
> Michael Rudas wrote:
>>? --- Jim Broughton wrote:
>>
>>> I just recently installed Slackware 13.1 and have my second look at
>>> the KDE 4 series desktop. I am appalled at what I see.
>>? What rev level of KDE 4?? Current is 4.4.3 -- earlier versions are
>>? not as polished -- but, frankly, I like KDE 4 just fine and prefer it
>>? over GNOME.? I use it every day, just as I have used every version of
>>? KDE 3 from v3.0 forward.
>>
>>? Is it perfect? No, but I am learning to tweak it to suit my needs.
>>? Progress IS progress, after all.
>>
>>? ~~ Michael Rudas My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com My Protopage
>>? links: http://TinyURL.com/protop http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey
>>? _______________________________________________ mdlug mailing list
>>? mdlug at mdlug.org http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Tue Jun 29 09:07:53 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 06:07:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Intel GMA500 No Love f/Linux
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTiktmTk_Lk6PJybtiyr2Eu820WnlbkiRH75-j5XY@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100628165702.0902f28b@Nokia-N800-43-7>
	<AANLkTinF8cfE0vU1glSs3MwP4cdGg2NM0onvCEp0-OOV@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C296DA4.3040600@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTiktmTk_Lk6PJybtiyr2Eu820WnlbkiRH75-j5XY@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <252326.22672.qm@web37902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Yes, and one thing that made Intel Big was that they showed Engineers how to use their chips in theirs designs. 

There is a book call "Marketing high technology" it is a good read. 

David C. Lane 

?



________________________________
From: Michael Rudas <audiotech50 at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Tue, June 29, 2010 12:47:35 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Intel GMA500 No Love f/Linux

--- Aaron Kulkis wrote:

> I remember seeing some data books for product offering by
> Intel and AMD back in the mid-80's. ?Advanced Micro-Devices
> certainly live up to their audacious name compared to Intel's
> run-of-the-mill slop.

Jerry Sanders, founder of Advanced Micro Devices, was one of the
"Traitorous 8" that William Shockley hired to create the Shockley
Transistor Company in the mid-'50s (the single act that created
Silicon Valley).? After they left Fairchild Semiconductor as a group
to form Intelligent Electronics (later Intel), Sanders had a falling
out with the others and formed AMD as much to spite the others as
anything else.? This is one reason why the relationship between the
two companies has been so rancorous at times.

> It's too bad the Motorola 68x00 series died a premature death
> due to not inferior hardware, but due to the criminal actions of
> Microsoft, and MS-DOS and MS-Windows running only on Intel CPUs.

Ummmm, no.? The 680x0 series died because it wasn't scalable. Due to
architectural limitations (mostly timing issues), chips wouldn't run
with a clock speed faster than about 50MHz or so.? The follow-on 880x0
RISC series failed in the marketplace, but when pieces of it were
combined with IBM's RISC technology, it became the PowerPC series of
CPUs.

I'm just glad that Linux is scalable and flexible enough to run on
almost anything.

~~ Michael Rudas
? My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
? My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/protop
? http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      


From Stan at mcomputersolutions.com  Tue Jun 29 22:18:15 2010
From: Stan at mcomputersolutions.com (Stan Green)
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 22:18:15 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] KDE 4
In-Reply-To: <4C29697E.2010802@gmail.com>
References: <4C293CA4.1000608@twmi.rr.com> <4C29697E.2010802@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201006292218.15781.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>

I run KDE 3.5 on my desktop and on my wife's PC I have KDE 4.x. (It is SUSE 11, 
which does not ship with KDE 3.5.)

The one major thing that was a huge pain was no desktop icons! In KDE 3.5 I can 
create a symbolic link on the desktop. This way she can open her documents and 
not care where they are on the file system. (She modifies a few documents on a 
regular basis.)  I did find a work-around by making the desktop display the 
contents of a folder. I them put the symbolic links in the folder and I have 
desktop icons back. I guess Segio did not get rid of all the desktop icon code. 

Stan


On Monday 28 June 2010 11:33:18 pm Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> Jim Broughton wrote:
> > I just recently installed Slackware 13.1 and have my second look
> > at the KDE 4 series desktop. I am appalled at what I see.
> > After 3 years thats all they have to show. I think that they should have
> > gone with a dual track, refining 3.5 while putting 4 into usable shape.
> > While
> > KDE 4  looks pretty it is harder to configure than the older 3.5 series
> > I was used to under Slack 12.2. It lacks a lot the programs that
> > were available under 3.5. The default menu system just plain sucks.
> > I guess their objective was to dumb it down a bit for the normal user
> > but at the
> > same time the fallout has been that a power user is left with a system
> > that just plain is not fun to use or configure.
> > I have kept in mind that Slackware does a minimal amount of
> > configuration work on the desktop software so that what you see is pretty
> > much what the KDE team released. I was so annoyed by it I downgraded
> > (upgraded?) my Laptop to the XFCE desktop. I will probably have to
> > compile/build KDE 3.5 for it.  Anyone else here using KDE 4 for
> > your desktop? Opinions?
>
> project leader Aaron Segio is a pathological liar, and I will never trust
> ANYTHING associated with this man.
>
> For instance, the KDE team propaganda, lead by Segio, state
> that KDE4 was a complete rewrite from the bottom up -- this
> being the excuse for normal desktop interactions which we have
> all come to know and love in KDE 3.5..
>
> ...and yet segio (too cool for capital letters) stated on his
> blog words to the effect of "finally, after a lot of work, I've
> ripped all the desktop icons code out of KDE4"
>
> What code is there to "rip out" if their story that they
> were "building from the ground up" were true, and they were
> not re-using KDE 3.5 code.
>
> Additionally, many of the photos that the man PUTS ON HIS
> OWN website indicate a total jack*** with a completely
> flippant attitude.
>
> KDE is becoming the NetBSD of the Linux world. :-(
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Jun 30 01:20:14 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 01:20:14 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] KDE 4
In-Reply-To: <201006292218.15781.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
References: <4C293CA4.1000608@twmi.rr.com> <4C29697E.2010802@gmail.com>
	<201006292218.15781.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <4C2AD40E.3040907@gmail.com>

Stan Green wrote:
> I run KDE 3.5 on my desktop and on my wife's PC I have KDE 4.x. (It is SUSE 11, 
> which does not ship with KDE 3.5.)
> 
> The one major thing that was a huge pain was no desktop icons! In KDE 3.5 I can 
> create a symbolic link on the desktop. This way she can open her documents and 
> not care where they are on the file system. (She modifies a few documents on a 
> regular basis.)  I did find a work-around by making the desktop display the 
> contents of a folder. I them put the symbolic links in the folder and I have 
> desktop icons back. I guess Segio did not get rid of all the desktop icon code. 
> 

The KDE 4 team, did so, and VERY begrudgingly, after several
MONTHS of berating emails on the opensuse mailing lists
[Many KDE devs subscribe to the opensuse list.  This is how
I'm aware of the lying.  The swore up and down that 4.0 was
"ready for the desktop user" ... all of use who tested it
said in no uncertain terms, that it was alpha-ware crap and
should NOT in any way, shape or form, be indicated on the
openSUSE 11.0 release as anything other than extremely
incomplete and unstable, so that newbies wouldn't install
it (hey, 4.0 must be better than 3.5, right!?!?!) thinking
that it represents the typical quality of Linux software.

But they did, anyways.  The whole KDE 4 project has been
notable for the incredible levels of dishonesty from the
devs, [[which they finally admitted about 15 months ago]].
If they can't be honest with their most ardent supporters,
and in fact, lie to us, in writing, repeatedly, even AFTER
being called out on it ... I cannot trust this crowd one bit.

And I will not trust them until Segio and others are
removed from the KDE team.

And that really sucks, because I find Gnome to be an
extremely ugly, inflexible crap written by a bunch with
an MS-like "we know better than you" attitude ("the
'average user' should want it this way, therefore so
should you, so don't bother looking to customize it")
The problem is, the "average user" is a myth.



> Stan
> 
> 
> On Monday 28 June 2010 11:33:18 pm Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>> Jim Broughton wrote:
>>> I just recently installed Slackware 13.1 and have my second look
>>> at the KDE 4 series desktop. I am appalled at what I see.
>>> After 3 years thats all they have to show. I think that they should have
>>> gone with a dual track, refining 3.5 while putting 4 into usable shape.
>>> While
>>> KDE 4  looks pretty it is harder to configure than the older 3.5 series
>>> I was used to under Slack 12.2. It lacks a lot the programs that
>>> were available under 3.5. The default menu system just plain sucks.
>>> I guess their objective was to dumb it down a bit for the normal user
>>> but at the
>>> same time the fallout has been that a power user is left with a system
>>> that just plain is not fun to use or configure.
>>> I have kept in mind that Slackware does a minimal amount of
>>> configuration work on the desktop software so that what you see is pretty
>>> much what the KDE team released. I was so annoyed by it I downgraded
>>> (upgraded?) my Laptop to the XFCE desktop. I will probably have to
>>> compile/build KDE 3.5 for it.  Anyone else here using KDE 4 for
>>> your desktop? Opinions?
>> project leader Aaron Segio is a pathological liar, and I will never trust
>> ANYTHING associated with this man.
>>
>> For instance, the KDE team propaganda, lead by Segio, state
>> that KDE4 was a complete rewrite from the bottom up -- this
>> being the excuse for normal desktop interactions which we have
>> all come to know and love in KDE 3.5..
>>
>> ...and yet segio (too cool for capital letters) stated on his
>> blog words to the effect of "finally, after a lot of work, I've
>> ripped all the desktop icons code out of KDE4"
>>
>> What code is there to "rip out" if their story that they
>> were "building from the ground up" were true, and they were
>> not re-using KDE 3.5 code.
>>
>> Additionally, many of the photos that the man PUTS ON HIS
>> OWN website indicate a total jack*** with a completely
>> flippant attitude.
>>
>> KDE is becoming the NetBSD of the Linux world. :-(
>> _______________________________________________
>> mdlug mailing list
>> mdlug at mdlug.org
>> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



