From robert.citek at gmail.com  Fri Jan  1 15:10:42 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 15:10:42 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] linux-friendly store in metro area
Message-ID: <4145b6791001011210n71ded6a2rfe6783f322fa9a14@mail.gmail.com>

I'm looking to purchase a new/refurbished machine for running Linux.
I recall several months ago someone mentioning a store in the Ann
Arbor/Detroit metro area that was either exclusively linux or with a
heavy linux emphasis.  What was the name of that store and where is it
located?

Regards,
- Robert


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Fri Jan  1 16:23:23 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 16:23:23 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] linux-friendly store in metro area
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791001011210n71ded6a2rfe6783f322fa9a14@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4145b6791001011210n71ded6a2rfe6783f322fa9a14@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e91001011323x768e46cev6fc11c1fc3ede272@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 3:10 PM, Robert Citek <robert.citek at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm looking to purchase a new/refurbished machine for running Linux.
> I recall several months ago someone mentioning a store in the Ann
> Arbor/Detroit metro area that was either exclusively linux or with a
> heavy linux emphasis. ?What was the name of that store and where is it
> located?

http://www.computerdirectcorp.com


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Fri Jan  1 20:29:54 2010
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 17:29:54 -0800
Subject: [mdlug] linux-friendly store in metro area
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e91001011323x768e46cev6fc11c1fc3ede272@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4145b6791001011210n71ded6a2rfe6783f322fa9a14@mail.gmail.com>
	<b02c40e91001011323x768e46cev6fc11c1fc3ede272@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b67fb0381001011729y45d8a231x645ff80f1f197757@mail.gmail.com>

-- Jeff Hanson wrote:

> --Robert Citek wrote:
>> I'm looking to purchase a new/refurbished machine for running Linux.
>> I recall several months ago someone mentioning a store in the Ann
>> Arbor/Detroit metro area that was either exclusively linux or with a
>> heavy linux emphasis. ?What was the name of that store and where is it
>> located?

http://www.computerdirectcorp.com

Yup.  They even have a rather large "Linux" banner hanging in front of
the store, outside.  I've talked to them; they're serious about it.

~~ Michael Rudas
    My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
    My (mostly Windows) software blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com
    My Protopage Linux links: <http://www.protopage.com/mprudas#Main/Linux_FOSS>


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Fri Jan  1 22:21:01 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 22:21:01 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] linux-friendly store in metro area
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0381001011729y45d8a231x645ff80f1f197757@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4145b6791001011210n71ded6a2rfe6783f322fa9a14@mail.gmail.com>
	<b02c40e91001011323x768e46cev6fc11c1fc3ede272@mail.gmail.com>
	<b67fb0381001011729y45d8a231x645ff80f1f197757@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4145b6791001011921t1fefd0en2cce6145955f635c@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 8:29 PM, Michael Rudas <audiotech50 at gmail.com> wrote:
> -- Jeff Hanson wrote:
>
>> --Robert Citek wrote:
>>> I'm looking to purchase a new/refurbished machine for running Linux.
>>> I recall several months ago someone mentioning a store in the Ann
>>> Arbor/Detroit metro area that was either exclusively linux or with a
>>> heavy linux emphasis. ?What was the name of that store and where is it
>>> located?
>
> http://www.computerdirectcorp.com
>
> Yup. ?They even have a rather large "Linux" banner hanging in front of
> the store, outside. ?I've talked to them; they're serious about it.

Thanks, Jeff and Michael. - Robert


From z_mikowski at yahoo.com  Sat Jan  2 01:23:21 2010
From: z_mikowski at yahoo.com (Michael S. Mikowski)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 22:23:21 -0800
Subject: [mdlug] linux-friendly store in metro area - DELL update
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791001011921t1fefd0en2cce6145955f635c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4145b6791001011210n71ded6a2rfe6783f322fa9a14@mail.gmail.com>
	<b67fb0381001011729y45d8a231x645ff80f1f197757@mail.gmail.com>
	<4145b6791001011921t1fefd0en2cce6145955f635c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201001012223.21338.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>

I will be looking into these guys.

FYI, For first time in 10 years I have been unable to configure a desired Linux 
system with Dell.

Good luck to anyone who tries to get /any/ Dell laptop with Linux.  At this 
point, they only offer crap hardware, hidden deep within the bowels of their 
site.  Go to dell.com and search for Ubuntu.  You'll find the maximum 
resolution on their Studio 15 Ubuntu offering is like 1440x768.  And it gets 
worse from there.

Last year I got an Ubuntu Dell Studio 15 with a 1920x1200 15.3" display, 
battery upgrade (6/8 cell), core2 duo T5750, 2 GB RAM, blue tooth, etc for 
~$685 before shipping. 

I did get someone from Small Business who offered me a Linux laptop with a 
1920x1200 monitor, without Windows 7 or all the marketing-ware crap.  It cost 
$10 /more/ than the MS tax version at  ~$930.

With Windows 7, Dell appears to have retreated from offering anything of value 
for Linux laptops, and has ensured a self-fulfilling prophecy by making Linux 
offerings only on shitty hardware and impossible to find.


On Friday 01 January 2010 07:21:01 pm Robert Citek wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 8:29 PM, Michael Rudas <audiotech50 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > -- Jeff Hanson wrote:
> >> --Robert Citek wrote:
> >>> I'm looking to purchase a new/refurbished machine for running Linux.
> >>> I recall several months ago someone mentioning a store in the Ann
> >>> Arbor/Detroit metro area that was either exclusively linux or with a
> >>> heavy linux emphasis.  What was the name of that store and where is it
> >>> located?
> >
> > http://www.computerdirectcorp.com
> >
> > Yup.  They even have a rather large "Linux" banner hanging in front of
> > the store, outside.  I've talked to them; they're serious about it.
> 
> Thanks, Jeff and Michael. - Robert
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 


From jbroughton at twmi.rr.com  Sat Jan  2 04:19:47 2010
From: jbroughton at twmi.rr.com (Jim Broughton)
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2010 04:19:47 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] linux-friendly store in metro area - DELL update
In-Reply-To: <201001012223.21338.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>
References: <4145b6791001011210n71ded6a2rfe6783f322fa9a14@mail.gmail.com>	<b67fb0381001011729y45d8a231x645ff80f1f197757@mail.gmail.com>	<4145b6791001011921t1fefd0en2cce6145955f635c@mail.gmail.com>
	<201001012223.21338.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4B3F0FB3.7010500@twmi.rr.com>

And this somehow surprises you? Dell was and always has
been a Microsoft shop/shill whatever. The only reason they
even breath a word about Linux is to get Microsoft to make
some sort of stupid concession in the next contract. Then we
start the cycle all over again until the next contract negotiations
start.
The only reason Dell even gives any lip service to Linux at all
is for the people who buy massive amounts of servers that
want  it. Linux on the desktop/laptop is not even on the
radar for most large computer makers.
Any computer made by a mega corp like Dell or HP is going
to be on the lowest level crappy hardware they can find.
I am constantly amazed by what I find inside Dell boxes.
Cheaply constructed cases with some great
amenities but  otherwise filled with cheap motherboards
and peripheral cards. I have not even thought of buying Dell since
I bought a laptop from them back in late 2003.

Jim



Michael S. Mikowski wrote:
> I will be looking into these guys.
>
> FYI, For first time in 10 years I have been unable to configure a desired Linux 
> system with Dell.
>
> Good luck to anyone who tries to get /any/ Dell laptop with Linux.  At this 
> point, they only offer crap hardware, hidden deep within the bowels of their 
> site.  Go to dell.com and search for Ubuntu.  You'll find the maximum 
> resolution on their Studio 15 Ubuntu offering is like 1440x768.  And it gets 
> worse from there.
>
> Last year I got an Ubuntu Dell Studio 15 with a 1920x1200 15.3" display, 
> battery upgrade (6/8 cell), core2 duo T5750, 2 GB RAM, blue tooth, etc for 
> ~$685 before shipping. 
>
> I did get someone from Small Business who offered me a Linux laptop with a 
> 1920x1200 monitor, without Windows 7 or all the marketing-ware crap.  It cost 
> $10 /more/ than the MS tax version at  ~$930.
>
> With Windows 7, Dell appears to have retreated from offering anything of value 
> for Linux laptops, and has ensured a self-fulfilling prophecy by making Linux 
> offerings only on shitty hardware and impossible to find.
>
>
>   




From rkannan at peoplepc.com  Sat Jan  2 09:41:04 2010
From: rkannan at peoplepc.com (R. Kannan)
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 09:41:04 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: [mdlug] linux-friendly store in metro area
Message-ID: <18479168.1262443265089.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net>


Iwas there last week. They had only two hardware configurations with Ubuntu Linux and did not have anyone to talk about customization.  Probably the Linux guy was out.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael Rudas <audiotech50 at gmail.com>
>Sent: Jan 1, 2010 8:29 PM
>To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>Subject: Re: [mdlug] linux-friendly store in metro area
>
>-- Jeff Hanson wrote:
>
>> --Robert Citek wrote:
>>> I'm looking to purchase a new/refurbished machine for running Linux.
>>> I recall several months ago someone mentioning a store in the Ann
>>> Arbor/Detroit metro area that was either exclusively linux or with a
>>> heavy linux emphasis.  What was the name of that store and where is it
>>> located?
>
>http://www.computerdirectcorp.com
>
>Yup.  They even have a rather large "Linux" banner hanging in front of
>the store, outside.  I've talked to them; they're serious about it.
>
>~~ Michael Rudas
>    My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
>    My (mostly Windows) software blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com
>    My Protopage Linux links: <http://www.protopage.com/mprudas#Main/Linux_FOSS>
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com


From jrw32982 at yahoo.com  Sat Jan  2 12:22:41 2010
From: jrw32982 at yahoo.com (John Wiersba)
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 09:22:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] Linux-friendly laptops
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1262451602.16315.mdlug@mdlug.org>
References: <mailman.1.1262451602.16315.mdlug@mdlug.org>
Message-ID: <167108.29424.qm@web52705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

When paying with your own money, in addition to a visit to Computer Direct, who would you recommend buying a laptop from, in order to get a reasonably priced (say $700 max), reasonably sturdy, linux-friendly laptop?  I don't mind a Windows license with it so I can set it up dual boot, but I would much prefer XP without all the DRM, though.  I'm thinking ahead for my daughter going to college next fall.  (If it were for me, I'd also require the Ctrl key in the lower left corner, i.e. no Thinkpads).

Thanks!
-- John Wiersba



      

From tesral at wowway.com  Sat Jan  2 12:46:28 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2010 12:46:28 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Linux-friendly laptops
In-Reply-To: <167108.29424.qm@web52705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.1.1262451602.16315.mdlug@mdlug.org>
	<167108.29424.qm@web52705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4B3F8674.8080704@wowway.com>

John Wiersba wrote:
> When paying with your own money, in addition to a visit to Computer Direct, who would you recommend buying a laptop from, in order to get a reasonably priced (say $700 max), reasonably sturdy, linux-friendly laptop?  I don't mind a Windows license with it so I can set it up dual boot, but I would much prefer XP without all the DRM, though.  I'm thinking ahead for my daughter going to college next fall.  (If it were for me, I'd also require the Ctrl key in the lower left corner, i.e. no Thinkpads).
>   


Think pads have the ctrl in the lower left.  I have a T-61.  Thinkpad is
a very Linux friendly machine too.  Tossing them is tossing one of your
best choices.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? -Mohandas K. Gandhi  
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From z_mikowski at yahoo.com  Sat Jan  2 12:49:16 2010
From: z_mikowski at yahoo.com (Michael Mikowski)
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 09:49:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] linux-friendly store in metro area - DELL update
In-Reply-To: <201001012223.21338.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>
References: <4145b6791001011210n71ded6a2rfe6783f322fa9a14@mail.gmail.com>
	<b67fb0381001011729y45d8a231x645ff80f1f197757@mail.gmail.com>
	<4145b6791001011921t1fefd0en2cce6145955f635c@mail.gmail.com>
	<201001012223.21338.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <894861.4546.qm@web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Today I (re?)discovered http://dell.com/ubuntu and found the new "official" studio 15 offering.

The $594 base price is actually very good, and the laptop is superior in every respect to the one that I purchased last year except for the screen, which is 1366x768 with an LED.  RAM jumps to 3GB from 2GB.  Throw in a 6 cell battery, and you are around $630.

So, its a good computer for a good price, and I'm a bit embarrassed by my last post; however, to be fair to myself :), none of the Dell service reps pointed me in the right direction, and finding the option is still far from obvious on the Dell site.


----- Original Message ----
From: Michael S. Mikowski <z_mikowski at yahoo.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Sat, January 2, 2010 1:23:21 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] linux-friendly store in metro area - DELL update


[FWIW] for first time in 10 years I have been unable to configure a desired Linux 
system with Dell.

Good luck to anyone who tries to get /any/ Dell laptop with Linux.  At this 
point, they only offer crap hardware, hidden deep within the bowels of their 
site.  Go to dell.com and search for Ubuntu.  You'll find the maximum 
resolution on their Studio 15 Ubuntu offering is like 1440x768.  And it gets 
worse from there.

[...]



From z_mikowski at yahoo.com  Sat Jan  2 12:58:12 2010
From: z_mikowski at yahoo.com (Michael Mikowski)
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 09:58:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] Linux-friendly laptops
In-Reply-To: <167108.29424.qm@web52705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.1.1262451602.16315.mdlug@mdlug.org>
	<167108.29424.qm@web52705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <998197.35719.qm@web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi John:

See my last post: dell.com/ubuntu and select the Studio 15.  Looks quite nice.  $594 default config.  I'd recommend upgrading to the 6 or 9 cell battery, and selecting the WLED option, which brings you around $630.  Nice!

Everything works out of the box, and it will work well with virtually all distros since all the HW is vetted for Ubuntu compatibility. When I got mine last year, I promptly did a clean install of the latest Kubuntu, and have had only minor hiccups since.

I only wish they'd bring back the higher resolution display option (which I got).  However, you might be able to sweet talk a Dell rep into one.  Thankfully, their support staff appear to once again be all US based.

Hope that helps.  Cheers, Mike



----- Original Message ----
From: John Wiersba <jrw32982 at yahoo.com>
To: mdlug at mdlug.org
Sent: Sat, January 2, 2010 12:22:41 PM
Subject: [mdlug] Linux-friendly laptops

When paying with your own money, in addition to a visit to Computer Direct, who would you recommend buying a laptop from, in order to get a reasonably priced (say $700 max), reasonably sturdy, linux-friendly laptop?  I don't mind a Windows license with it so I can set it up dual boot, but I would much prefer XP without all the DRM, though.  I'm thinking ahead for my daughter going to college next fall.  (If it were for me, I'd also require the Ctrl key in the lower left corner, i.e. no Thinkpads).

Thanks!
-- John Wiersba



      
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From skyefire at skyefire.org  Sat Jan  2 15:52:42 2010
From: skyefire at skyefire.org (David McMillan)
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2010 15:52:42 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Samba strangeness
Message-ID: <4B3FB21A.4030006@skyefire.org>


	Two items here.

	I've set up my personal file server (Jaunty) with a shared drive 
mounted locally as /archive1.  This drive is shared across the network 
using Samba.  I can access it from Windows and Linux machines on the 
network, but:

	1:  when trying to transfer large files, the connection just seems to 
stall out -- progress stops entirely.  Yet, transferring a similar-sized 
cluster of smaller files doesn't have the same problem.  Transfers *are* 
slower than I'd expect, but they don't choke.  Anybody know the best way 
to troubleshoot this kind of problem?  I've done lots of SMB shares 
(Windows and Linux) in the past, but this is a new problem for me.

	2:  The really weird one.  Only some files show up to the SMB clients. 
  It doesn't matter if the client is Windows or Linux, so the issue has 
to be on the server end.  For example, the /archive1/images directory 
contains a *lot* of files, and subdirs, but only a relative handful of 
the "root" files show up to SMB clients, and none of the subdirs.  I've 
checked the permissions on the files/subdirs that aren't showing up, and 
they're the same as on the files that *are* showing up.  Even chmod'ing 
all the files to 777 didn't change anything.  Aside from the file access 
permissions, what else could block files/subdirs from showing up to an 
SMB client?
	It's not just a browsing thing, either -- trying to cd directly to 
subdirs that I *know* are there generates a "no such directory" error.




From mat.enders at gmail.com  Sat Jan  2 17:35:26 2010
From: mat.enders at gmail.com (Mathew Enders)
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2010 17:35:26 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Samba strangeness
In-Reply-To: <4B3FB21A.4030006@skyefire.org>
References: <4B3FB21A.4030006@skyefire.org>
Message-ID: <4B3FCA2E.1010802@gmail.com>

David McMillan wrote:
> 	Two items here.
> 
> 	I've set up my personal file server (Jaunty) with a shared drive 
> mounted locally as /archive1.  This drive is shared across the network 
> using Samba.  I can access it from Windows and Linux machines on the 
> network, but:
> 
> 	1:  when trying to transfer large files, the connection just seems to 
> stall out -- progress stops entirely.  Yet, transferring a similar-sized 
> cluster of smaller files doesn't have the same problem.  Transfers *are* 
> slower than I'd expect, but they don't choke.  Anybody know the best way 
> to troubleshoot this kind of problem?  I've done lots of SMB shares 
> (Windows and Linux) in the past, but this is a new problem for me.
> 
> 	2:  The really weird one.  Only some files show up to the SMB clients. 
>   It doesn't matter if the client is Windows or Linux, so the issue has 
> to be on the server end.  For example, the /archive1/images directory 
> contains a *lot* of files, and subdirs, but only a relative handful of 
> the "root" files show up to SMB clients, and none of the subdirs.  I've 
> checked the permissions on the files/subdirs that aren't showing up, and 
> they're the same as on the files that *are* showing up.  Even chmod'ing 
> all the files to 777 didn't change anything.  Aside from the file access 
> permissions, what else could block files/subdirs from showing up to an 
> SMB client?
> 	It's not just a browsing thing, either -- trying to cd directly to 
> subdirs that I *know* are there generates a "no such directory" error.
> 
> 

Check the user and group ownership of the subdirectories.



From davidl at lmert.com  Sat Jan  2 22:50:56 2010
From: davidl at lmert.com (David Lee Lambert)
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2010 22:50:56 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Speaking of audio formats...
Message-ID: <4B401420.2060002@lmert.com>

Today I tried to rip the soundtrack from a DVD (actually, from the bonus 
material: music videos of the songs) using VLC.  "Media -> 
Convert/Save...", specify the right chapter, select an output format;  I 
tried several MPEG variants but kept getting error-messages, then 
selected Ogg Vorbis and got it to work. 

However,  what I obtained is four huge video files that only VLC can 
play;  about 200 MB for a 10-minute song.  Is there some way to 
re-encode just the audio tracks as MP3 or WMA, so I can copy them to a 
portable music player?

Working under Ubuntu Intrepid, but I played one of the files back using 
vlc under Debian Etch.

Also,  has anyone gotten some sort of streaming audio protocol to work 
over an SSH tunnel?

--
DLL


From davidl at lmert.com  Sat Jan  2 23:00:09 2010
From: davidl at lmert.com (David Lee Lambert)
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2010 23:00:09 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Samba strangeness
In-Reply-To: <4B3FCA2E.1010802@gmail.com>
References: <4B3FB21A.4030006@skyefire.org> <4B3FCA2E.1010802@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B401649.5000905@lmert.com>

Mathew Enders wrote:
> David McMillan wrote:
>   
>> 	Two items here.
>>
>> 	I've set up my personal file server (Jaunty) with a shared drive 
>> mounted locally as /archive1.  This drive is shared across the network 
>> using Samba.  I can access it from Windows and Linux machines on the 
>> network, but:
>>
>> 	1:  when trying to transfer large files, the connection just seems to 
>> stall out -- progress stops entirely.  Yet, transferring a similar-sized 
>> cluster of smaller files doesn't have the same problem.  Transfers *are* 
>> slower than I'd expect, but they don't choke.  Anybody know the best way 
>> to troubleshoot this kind of problem?  I've done lots of SMB shares 
>> (Windows and Linux) in the past, but this is a new problem for me.
>>
>>     
I've seen problems like this with a network cable that was frayed, or a 
PCMCIA network card that had been dropped, or mismatched full-duplex 
settings.  Samba has several TCP tuning parameters, which may help.  Do 
SSH, FTP or HTTP file transfers between those systems happen as fast as 
you expect?  SMB seems less resilient over an imperfect network, or with 
a slow host on either end, than other protocols.
>> 	2:  The really weird one.  Only some files show up to the SMB clients. 
>>   It doesn't matter if the client is Windows or Linux, so the issue has 
>> to be on the server end.  For example, the /archive1/images directory 
>> contains a *lot* of files, and subdirs, but only a relative handful of 
>> the "root" files show up to SMB clients, and none of the subdirs.  I've 
>> checked the permissions on the files/subdirs that aren't showing up, and 
>> they're the same as on the files that *are* showing up.  Even chmod'ing 
>> all the files to 777 didn't change anything.  Aside from the file access 
>> permissions, what else could block files/subdirs from showing up to an 
>> SMB client?
>> 	It's not just a browsing thing, either -- trying to cd directly to 
>> subdirs that I *know* are there generates a "no such directory" error.
>>
>>     
Following my suggestion above,  perhaps packets are being dropped from 
directory-listings;  but that's just a wild guess.  Samba has a lot of 
security options;  is there any pattern to the filenames that display 
problems?

--
DLL



From micorral at comcast.net  Sun Jan  3 01:44:19 2010
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 01:44:19 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Speaking of audio formats...
In-Reply-To: <4B401420.2060002@lmert.com>
References: <4B401420.2060002@lmert.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.1001030140450.8090@banana.sluggo.net>

2010-01-02, Monsieur David Lee Lambert a ecrit:
> Today I tried to rip the soundtrack from a DVD (actually, from the bonus
> material: music videos of the songs) using VLC.  "Media ->
> Convert/Save...", specify the right chapter, select an output format;  I
> tried several MPEG variants but kept getting error-messages, then
> selected Ogg Vorbis and got it to work.
>
> However,  what I obtained is four huge video files that only VLC can
> play;  about 200 MB for a 10-minute song.  Is there some way to
> re-encode just the audio tracks as MP3 or WMA, so I can copy them to a
> portable music player?

You could use mplayer to rip the audio portion of the video files as
WAV files, then encode those to MP3 or whatever you want:

mplayer <your_video_file> -ao pcm:file=myfile.wav -vo null

Michael


From carl at carltm.com  Sun Jan  3 05:20:29 2010
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 05:20:29 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Speaking of audio formats...
In-Reply-To: <4B401420.2060002@lmert.com>
References: <4B401420.2060002@lmert.com>
Message-ID: <434e322de6b544f79d927ef9dae1e493.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

David Lee Lambert wrote:
> However,  what I obtained is four huge video files that only VLC can
> play;  about 200 MB for a 10-minute song.  Is there some way to
> re-encode just the audio tracks as MP3 or WMA, so I can copy them to a
> portable music player?

Look at ffmpeg.  It can convert almost any type of multimedia
format into any other format.  And it supports multiple codecs
for use with formats that use encoding.

Try this first to see if you need to use settings other than
the defaults.

  ffmpeg -i video1.??? soundtrack1.mp3

c




From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Sun Jan  3 09:30:24 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2010 09:30:24 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Speaking of audio formats...
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.00.1001030140450.8090@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <4B401420.2060002@lmert.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1001030140450.8090@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <4B40AA00.9060805@gmail.com>

Michael Corral wrote:
> 2010-01-02, Monsieur David Lee Lambert a ecrit:
>> Today I tried to rip the soundtrack from a DVD (actually, from the bonus
>> material: music videos of the songs) using VLC.  "Media ->
>> Convert/Save...", specify the right chapter, select an output format;  I
>> tried several MPEG variants but kept getting error-messages, then
>> selected Ogg Vorbis and got it to work.
>>
>> However,  what I obtained is four huge video files that only VLC can
>> play;  about 200 MB for a 10-minute song.  Is there some way to
>> re-encode just the audio tracks as MP3 or WMA, so I can copy them to a
>> portable music player?
> 
> You could use mplayer to rip the audio portion of the video files as
> WAV files, then encode those to MP3 or whatever you want:
> 
> mplayer <your_video_file> -ao pcm:file=myfile.wav -vo null

I would suggest FLAC (LOSSLESS compression, as opposed to the
rather lossy compression of MP3), since a lot of digital audio
players DO recognize and play both .ogg and .flac files.



From brian at dangerbacon.com  Sun Jan  3 11:33:30 2010
From: brian at dangerbacon.com (Brian)
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 11:33:30 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Speaking of audio formats...
In-Reply-To: <6f64e9541001030829w11214ac5h1df30226cdf71a98@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B401420.2060002@lmert.com>
	<6f64e9541001030829w11214ac5h1df30226cdf71a98@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6f64e9541001030833h6063a4a4t39d66f25ec39c8b4@mail.gmail.com>

It kinda sounds to me like you encoded a 5 channel surround sound track.
Most lossy formats only support a left and right channel.  It also could be
24 bit audio instead of 16.  These would both cause the huge file size and
the lack of support by other codecs.

On Jan 2, 2010 11:00 PM, "David Lee Lambert" <davidl at lmert.com> wrote:

Today I tried to rip the soundtrack from a DVD (actually, from the bonus
material: music videos of the songs) using VLC.  "Media ->
Convert/Save...", specify the right chapter, select an output format;  I
tried several MPEG variants but kept getting error-messages, then
selected Ogg Vorbis and got it to work.

However,  what I obtained is four huge video files that only VLC can
play;  about 200 MB for a 10-minute song.  Is there some way to
re-encode just the audio tracks as MP3 or WMA, so I can copy them to a
portable music player?

Working under Ubuntu Intrepid, but I played one of the files back using
vlc under Debian Etch.

Also,  has anyone gotten some sort of streaming audio protocol to work
over an SSH tunnel?

--
DLL
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From skyefire at skyefire.org  Sun Jan  3 12:00:28 2010
From: skyefire at skyefire.org (David McMillan)
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2010 12:00:28 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Samba strangeness
In-Reply-To: <4B401649.5000905@lmert.com>
References: <4B3FB21A.4030006@skyefire.org> <4B3FCA2E.1010802@gmail.com>
	<4B401649.5000905@lmert.com>
Message-ID: <4B40CD2C.5060201@skyefire.org>

David Lee Lambert wrote:
> Mathew Enders wrote:
>> David McMillan wrote:
>>   
>>> 	Two items here.
>>>
>>> 	I've set up my personal file server (Jaunty) with a shared drive 
>>> mounted locally as /archive1.  This drive is shared across the network 
>>> using Samba.  I can access it from Windows and Linux machines on the 
>>> network, but:
>>>
>>> 	1:  when trying to transfer large files, the connection just seems to 
>>> stall out -- progress stops entirely.  Yet, transferring a similar-sized 
>>> cluster of smaller files doesn't have the same problem.  Transfers *are* 
>>> slower than I'd expect, but they don't choke.  Anybody know the best way 
>>> to troubleshoot this kind of problem?  I've done lots of SMB shares 
>>> (Windows and Linux) in the past, but this is a new problem for me.
>>>
>>>     
> I've seen problems like this with a network cable that was frayed, or a 
> PCMCIA network card that had been dropped, or mismatched full-duplex 
> settings.  Samba has several TCP tuning parameters, which may help.  Do 
> SSH, FTP or HTTP file transfers between those systems happen as fast as 
> you expect?  SMB seems less resilient over an imperfect network, or with 
> a slow host on either end, than other protocols.
>>> 	2:  The really weird one.  Only some files show up to the SMB clients. 
>>>   It doesn't matter if the client is Windows or Linux, so the issue has 
>>> to be on the server end.  For example, the /archive1/images directory 
>>> contains a *lot* of files, and subdirs, but only a relative handful of 
>>> the "root" files show up to SMB clients, and none of the subdirs.  I've 
>>> checked the permissions on the files/subdirs that aren't showing up, and 
>>> they're the same as on the files that *are* showing up.  Even chmod'ing 
>>> all the files to 777 didn't change anything.  Aside from the file access 
>>> permissions, what else could block files/subdirs from showing up to an 
>>> SMB client?
>>> 	It's not just a browsing thing, either -- trying to cd directly to 
>>> subdirs that I *know* are there generates a "no such directory" error.
>>>
>>>     
> Following my suggestion above,  perhaps packets are being dropped from 
> directory-listings;  but that's just a wild guess.  Samba has a lot of 
> security options;  is there any pattern to the filenames that display 
> problems?

	Not as far as I can tell -- I've checked the access permissions on all 
of them, and even gone so far as to do a chmod -R 777 on the entire 
drive just to see what would happen.  No dice.  The files that *do* show 
run the name gamut from 0-9 through a-z... hm.  It just hit me that all 
of the files I *can* see remotely start with either a number, a 
lowercase letter, or an underscore.  Nothing that starts with a capital 
letter shows up.
	...okay, I think I found it.  Don't know why it happened this way, but 
here goes:
	Under /archive1, I had both an 'Images' and an 'images' subdir (due to 
a typo a while back that I hadn't got around to cleaning up).  'Images' 
didn't have any subdirs, and only had a few files.  Both directories 
showed up to remote clients, but after some more detailed digging, it 
looks like, somehow, when I cd'd to 'images', I was actually ending up 
in 'Images'.  I can see why Windows might fail to see the difference 
between /archive1/images and /archive1/Images, and why it might default 
to the capitalized directory name, but why would even Linux clients do 
it?  Does Samba not differentiate between upper- and lower-case names?
	Anyway, moving all the images into one 'images' folder and deleting the 
extra one fixed the entire issue.

	Thanks!



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sun Jan  3 13:18:06 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 13:18:06 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Samba strangeness
In-Reply-To: <4B40CD2C.5060201@skyefire.org>
References: <4B3FB21A.4030006@skyefire.org> <4B3FCA2E.1010802@gmail.com>
	<4B401649.5000905@lmert.com> <4B40CD2C.5060201@skyefire.org>
Message-ID: <b02c40e91001031018m73f80104h47657814ce2ca057@mail.gmail.com>

Because Samba has to suppress case differences over SMB for Windows.
It probably doesn't differentiate between clients.

I suspect Wine has similar issues with Windows apps when there are two
files in the same location whose names differ by case only.  It's
annoying to deal with when you try to extract an update out of a zip
file that is intended to overwrite existing files in a directory but
the name cases differ.

On 1/3/10, David McMillan <skyefire at skyefire.org> wrote:
> David Lee Lambert wrote:
>> Mathew Enders wrote:
>>> David McMillan wrote:
>>>
>>>> 	Two items here.
>>>>
>>>> 	I've set up my personal file server (Jaunty) with a shared drive
>>>> mounted locally as /archive1.  This drive is shared across the network
>>>> using Samba.  I can access it from Windows and Linux machines on the
>>>> network, but:
>>>>
>>>> 	1:  when trying to transfer large files, the connection just seems to
>>>> stall out -- progress stops entirely.  Yet, transferring a similar-sized
>>>>
>>>> cluster of smaller files doesn't have the same problem.  Transfers *are*
>>>>
>>>> slower than I'd expect, but they don't choke.  Anybody know the best way
>>>>
>>>> to troubleshoot this kind of problem?  I've done lots of SMB shares
>>>> (Windows and Linux) in the past, but this is a new problem for me.
>>>>
>>>>
>> I've seen problems like this with a network cable that was frayed, or a
>> PCMCIA network card that had been dropped, or mismatched full-duplex
>> settings.  Samba has several TCP tuning parameters, which may help.  Do
>> SSH, FTP or HTTP file transfers between those systems happen as fast as
>> you expect?  SMB seems less resilient over an imperfect network, or with
>> a slow host on either end, than other protocols.
>>>> 	2:  The really weird one.  Only some files show up to the SMB clients.
>>>>   It doesn't matter if the client is Windows or Linux, so the issue has
>>>> to be on the server end.  For example, the /archive1/images directory
>>>> contains a *lot* of files, and subdirs, but only a relative handful of
>>>> the "root" files show up to SMB clients, and none of the subdirs.  I've
>>>> checked the permissions on the files/subdirs that aren't showing up, and
>>>>
>>>> they're the same as on the files that *are* showing up.  Even chmod'ing
>>>> all the files to 777 didn't change anything.  Aside from the file access
>>>>
>>>> permissions, what else could block files/subdirs from showing up to an
>>>> SMB client?
>>>> 	It's not just a browsing thing, either -- trying to cd directly to
>>>> subdirs that I *know* are there generates a "no such directory" error.
>>>>
>>>>
>> Following my suggestion above,  perhaps packets are being dropped from
>> directory-listings;  but that's just a wild guess.  Samba has a lot of
>> security options;  is there any pattern to the filenames that display
>> problems?
>
> 	Not as far as I can tell -- I've checked the access permissions on all
> of them, and even gone so far as to do a chmod -R 777 on the entire
> drive just to see what would happen.  No dice.  The files that *do* show
> run the name gamut from 0-9 through a-z... hm.  It just hit me that all
> of the files I *can* see remotely start with either a number, a
> lowercase letter, or an underscore.  Nothing that starts with a capital
> letter shows up.
> 	...okay, I think I found it.  Don't know why it happened this way, but
> here goes:
> 	Under /archive1, I had both an 'Images' and an 'images' subdir (due to
> a typo a while back that I hadn't got around to cleaning up).  'Images'
> didn't have any subdirs, and only had a few files.  Both directories
> showed up to remote clients, but after some more detailed digging, it
> looks like, somehow, when I cd'd to 'images', I was actually ending up
> in 'Images'.  I can see why Windows might fail to see the difference
> between /archive1/images and /archive1/Images, and why it might default
> to the capitalized directory name, but why would even Linux clients do
> it?  Does Samba not differentiate between upper- and lower-case names?
> 	Anyway, moving all the images into one 'images' folder and deleting the
> extra one fixed the entire issue.
>
> 	Thanks!
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From danno at umich.edu  Sun Jan  3 16:52:57 2010
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 16:52:57 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Speaking of audio formats...
In-Reply-To: <4B401420.2060002@lmert.com>
References: <4B401420.2060002@lmert.com>
Message-ID: <20100103215257.GA66246@maniac.deathstar.org>

it's tricky to rip DVDs from their native VOB files ; they are typically
not broken up into chapters or tracks, just all munged together
into a few huge VOB files.  So you can't just easily grab the audio
track out of the files you want from the command line.

My simplest suggestion is to use some standard dvd-ripper tool, as
if you wanted the audio AND video.  Then extract the audio you want
from the result.  I'd choose a crappy video codec (eg, xvid over
h.264) and low video framerate and bitrate, and maybe downscale the
video radically, which ought to result in fast video encoding.

Simplest to choose the audio format you want during this transcoding
process. 

To extract the audio from an avi file (or any other format your ffmpeg supports), you can use:

 ffmpeg -i foo.avi -acodec copy audiofile

If you were stuck with transcoding, you could

 ffmpeg -i foo.avi -acodec libmp3lame -ab 192 audiofile

I use Handbrake to do this on my mac but handbrake is available for
linux too.  I think on any platform but mac you need to de-css the DVD
first.  I'm sure there are other tools on linux for this.

The most recent version only does AAC audio, but previous versions
will do MP3.

Aaron K is right that in general a lossless format like flac is better,
all things being equal.  Note that the source material on a DVD is already 
lossy, though.  Transcoding it will degrade the quality, so there may be
a point in doing flac, but I probably wouldn't bother; if you want the best
quality find the songs on a CD.  

Of course, the simplest solution to your problem probably involves bittorrent.

re: streaming, there's no reason any tcp-based audio streaming protocol
won't work over an ssh tunnel.  You may need to increase buffering.

A plain ssh tunnel won't forward UDP.  You can work around this, eg:
  http://www.qcnetwork.com/vince/doc/divers/udp_over_ssh_tunnel.html

danno


On Sat, Jan 02, 2010 at 10:50:56PM -0500, David Lee Lambert wrote:
> Today I tried to rip the soundtrack from a DVD (actually, from the bonus 
> material: music videos of the songs) using VLC.  "Media -> 
> Convert/Save...", specify the right chapter, select an output format;  I 
> tried several MPEG variants but kept getting error-messages, then 
> selected Ogg Vorbis and got it to work. 
> 
> However,  what I obtained is four huge video files that only VLC can 
> play;  about 200 MB for a 10-minute song.  Is there some way to 
> re-encode just the audio tracks as MP3 or WMA, so I can copy them to a 
> portable music player?
> 
> Working under Ubuntu Intrepid, but I played one of the files back using 
> vlc under Debian Etch.
> 
> Also,  has anyone gotten some sort of streaming audio protocol to work 
> over an SSH tunnel?
> 
> --
> DLL
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From davidl at lmert.com  Sun Jan  3 18:06:28 2010
From: davidl at lmert.com (David Lee Lambert)
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2010 18:06:28 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Speaking of audio formats...
In-Reply-To: <434e322de6b544f79d927ef9dae1e493.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
References: <4B401420.2060002@lmert.com>
	<434e322de6b544f79d927ef9dae1e493.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <4B4122F4.6080502@lmert.com>

Carl T. Miller wrote:
> Look at ffmpeg.  It can convert almost any type of multimedia
> format into any other format.  And it supports multiple codecs
> for use with formats that use encoding.
>
> Try this first to see if you need to use settings other than
> the defaults.
>
>   ffmpeg -i video1.??? soundtrack1.mp3
>   
Thanks,  that's exactly what I needed. 

Responding to Aaron's suggestion to use FLAC:  I wanted to put one of 
the songs on my son's baby-proof portable music player,  which only 
accepts MP3 and WMA.  It works fine now.


--
DLL


From jrw32982 at yahoo.com  Sun Jan  3 18:16:10 2010
From: jrw32982 at yahoo.com (John Wiersba)
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 15:16:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] Linux-friendly laptops
In-Reply-To: <mailman.22.1262491229.4709.mdlug@mdlug.org>
References: <mailman.22.1262491229.4709.mdlug@mdlug.org>
Message-ID: <620113.80390.qm@web52708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


From tesral at wowway.com  Sun Jan  3 18:23:25 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2010 18:23:25 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Linux-friendly laptops
In-Reply-To: <620113.80390.qm@web52708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.22.1262491229.4709.mdlug@mdlug.org>
	<620113.80390.qm@web52708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4B4126ED.2000200@wowway.com>

John Wiersba wrote:
> >From the pictures I've seen (e.g. http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3708&review=ThinkPad+T61), the Thinkpad has a Fn key in the lower left corner.  The Ctrl key is next to it, but not in the corner.  Otherwise, Thinkpads sound like very nice machines indeed.  Any other suggestions besides a Thinkpad?
>   


It's THAT big an issue?  I use a standard keyboard and switch to that
keyboard all the time.  My brain seems flexible enough to handle it.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? -Mohandas K. Gandhi  
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Mon Jan  4 10:55:26 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 07:55:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] linux-friendly store in metro area
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791001011210n71ded6a2rfe6783f322fa9a14@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4145b6791001011210n71ded6a2rfe6783f322fa9a14@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <995425.77305.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Micro center has some for even 200.00





________________________________
From: Robert Citek <robert.citek at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Fri, January 1, 2010 3:10:42 PM
Subject: [mdlug] linux-friendly store in metro area

I'm looking to purchase a new/refurbished machine for running Linux.
I recall several months ago someone mentioning a store in the Ann
Arbor/Detroit metro area that was either exclusively linux or with a
heavy linux emphasis.  What was the name of that store and where is it
located?

Regards,
- Robert
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      

From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Mon Jan  4 20:21:36 2010
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net)
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 20:21:36 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Canonical, Ubuntu, and Partnet Agreement
Message-ID: <4B429420.6060904@bellsouth.net>

All,

I'm seeking opinions regarding experience (good, bad, or indifferent)
with Canonical, Inc. (http://www.canonical.com/) especially with regards 
to their partnership agreement and relation to Ubuntu.

TIA,
--
Bob


From gib at juno.com  Tue Jan  5 08:13:27 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 13:13:27 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] Record our MDLUG meetings and webcast/podcast them
Message-ID: <20100105.081327.25538.1@webmail02.vgs.untd.com>

 
While looking at a Ubuntu Local Group email concerning classes for Penguicon, I started thinking those classes should be recorded. I replied to the email with the suggestion. 
Then I thought, gee, maybe we can record our MDLUG meetings and webcast/podcast them.  This topic came up before and we had issues with the room lighting and such. 
But also we never say anything worth recording.  Maybe we can do a "un-meeting", select four topics from a list then discuss each of the four topics for 15 minutes for a total of an hour.
So, which topics would we be able to find to fill up 15 minutes of interesting recordings?
Can we try this in our meeting a few times then maybe do this again at Penguicon?
Can we also find software to webast and whiteboard . . . hey that would make an interesting 15 minute discussion.
____________________________________________________________
Diet Help
Cheap Diet Help Tips. Click here.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=holulP0e8mtBuYPZtXSP9QAAJz07QkQODMrtXujsdlflQzfUAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYQAAAAAA=

From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Tue Jan  5 08:58:29 2010
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 08:58:29 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Care and feeding of SATA drives
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441D89C@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>


 Back in late July I picked up a ~1TB SATA drive for my system,
primarily intended to store HDV from a new camcorder. Just before the
holidays I began to have problems accessing it, which got progressively
worse until I was rarely able to use it at all. ATA errors and so forth.
I did manage to back up the critical data to another drive, but I
figured I'd need to call in the warranty. Still, SMART showed no drive
problems, even in the extended offline test.

 Before trying to exchange it I opened up the case, replaced the SATA
cable, and reseated the power connector. And... presto. There have been
no problems for over a week now. I'm pretty happy about that. I'll keep
an eye on it for a time, but it really seems to be fixed at this point.

 I can't figure out what could happen to make a SATA cable and/or power
cable to go bad in six months, but that appears to have been the case.
Moral of the story: make very sure to replace/reseat cables *first* when
hardware trouble is suspected.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                     (313) 227-2317

   "I can't think of a worse way to wake up than discovering
                my head is in a jar." - Tagon
  "Try waking up with your head in a jar and having deja-vu."
                       - Der Trihs.
    - Schlock Mercenary, http://www.schlockmercenary.com/

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Tue Jan  5 09:23:04 2010
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 09:23:04 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Gotchas for upgrading Ubuntu to 9.10
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441D8AF@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>


 First off, I discovered that I needed to free up space in my root
partition to even attempt the upgrade. I ended up cleaning up the root
partition, but that wasn't enough. Next I copied it to a (larger) spare
partition, and diddling GRUB to boot from the copy. Then I upgraded
*that* partition. Things failed, however - the install CD couldn't see
my disks. But I'm getting ahead of myself.

 The two main drives were identical and, once upon a time, were part of
a RAID pair. Apparently some config information lingered on the drives
from that time, and this confused the RAID support in Ubuntu 9.10. I had
to run "sudo apt-get remove dmraid" to work around this. (Apparently
there's a way to clear the information from the disks - "dmraid -E" -
but I found that out later.) The install CD still failed to format or
otherwise work with the drives, though at least it could now see them.

 So, I copied the root partition, as I said. But there was a bug in
9.04's Grub2 config scripts - if it found two copies of 9.04 (an
admittedly unusual setup), the configuration would be generated
incorrectly, and it would always boot off the first partition, not the
copy, no matter what entry you picked. I had to learn about Grub2 and
generate a custom boot stanza to finally be able to boot up the copy of
9.04.

 Then I ran an in-place upgrade from 9.04 to 9.10. That worked... but it
wouldn't boot properly. I had to get to a recovery console, and remove
dmraid as detailed above. After that, it worked.

 Well, almost. It wouldn't mount the swap partitions. I discovered that
the UUIDs of the swap partitions had changed in the upgrade, but the
fstab had not been updated. I had to boot into 9.04, edit the 9.10 fstab
from there, and then I could *finally* boot into 9.10. Oy.

 Thankfully, after all that, things have been working fine. I'm pleased
with the out-of-the-box VDPAU support, and so forth. But man, that was a
painful upgrade.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                    (313) 227-2317

 Isn't it funny how Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson blame the
 actions of fanatical religious zealots on 'secular' groups?

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Tue Jan  5 10:27:53 2010
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 10:27:53 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Why I like Linux - bulk DV encoding
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441D8E0@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>


 We have a bunch of Digital8 tapes from our old camcorder - basically DV
video on Hi8 tapes. Over the holidays I finally got the gumption to
extract and convert them to something more modern. Fortunately, Linux is
ideal for this sort of thing.

 Using 'dvgrab', I can just hook the camcorder up via Firewire. I don't
even need to manually rewind the tapes before capturing; dvgrab has a
"-rewind" command that takes care of that. The command I've settled on
is:

 dvgrab -rewind -autosplit=28800 -timestamp dv-

 The 'autosplit' generates a new file if there's a gap of 8 hours or
longer between clips, and the 'timestamp' flag incorporates the time and
date into the filename. I just swap tapes every so often and it grabs
the video and saves it for me.

 Then, I used the 'h264enc' script to experiment with the best way to
convert the video to H264. I decided to deinterlace the video, and used
the 'ps3hq' (Playstation 3 High Quality) preset otherwise, so I could
play the files easily on our big TV via the PS3. Happily, the h264enc
has an option to write out its mencoder commands to a file, so I could
incorporate them into my own script with only slight editing of the
input and output filenames.

 Once I had a script that would encode a single file properly, I wrote a
second, wrapper script that would call the encoding script repeatedly
for all DV files in a given directory. (BTW, DV is not a well-compressed
codec - the H264 files are about 1/13th the size of the DV versions, and
nearly indistinguishable in quality.) Encoding the video takes a while -
even on an Athlon 64 X2 Windsor 5600+ (dual-core, 2.8GHz), it processes
at around 10fps - but is also 'fire and forget'.

 I plan on giving the old tapes to my parents to store at their house
for an offsite back-up. I'll keep the H264 files on my hard drive here,
and also back them up to DVD. Burned DVDs are hardly a reliable backup
mechanism, of course, but there's the 'par2' utility, which generates
redundant parity information for files. I plan on burning the DVDs with
~15% redundancy, so that they'll need to be fairly damaged/aged before
recovery is impossible.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                                (313)
227-2317

 "Deism has always struck me as rather pointless. A kind of religion
lite
  for people who want to try and be rational but are unable to let go of
       superstition entirely. It is a nicotine patch for the soul."
                            - Matt Penfold

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.



From fulner at alumni.nmu.edu  Tue Jan  5 17:26:19 2010
From: fulner at alumni.nmu.edu (Robert Jim Fulner)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 17:26:19 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source Development of new "Alternate Reality" product
Message-ID: <c768576f1001051426g6cb39162q220a133222f80235@mail.gmail.com>

OK,

So this just seems really weird to me, but the company I work for, Parrot,
Inc., is releasing a new "Alternative Reality Quadaracopter" called the
DRONE. Its some kind of toy/video game something that you can control from
an iPhone or iPod Touch.

I thought you all might be interested in it because they now have available
an Open SDK to allow other to make new "video games" for it. This certain I
would consider a whole new concept in the gaming word, one I don't pretend
to understand. But I thought you all might be interested in it.

http://www.parrot.com/parrot-ar-drone/en/project



**
--
Jim Fulner
The DetroitLibertyPenguin
Promoting Free Minds, Free Markets and Free Software
*and whenever possible Free Beer
*"For as long as one of your brothers is not free, none of you are free"
248-765-7458 (cell)
http://www.facebook.com/jim.fulner


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Tue Jan  5 19:06:24 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 19:06:24 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source Development of new "Alternate Reality"
	product
In-Reply-To: <c768576f1001051426g6cb39162q220a133222f80235@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c768576f1001051426g6cb39162q220a133222f80235@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e91001051606x2f57dd01lfec76f42b2ffdaea@mail.gmail.com>

Might be worth posting to the usual news outlets:

http://www.linuxdevices.com
http://lxer.com
http://www.linuxtoday.com

On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 5:26 PM, Robert Jim Fulner <fulner at alumni.nmu.edu> wrote:
> OK,
>
> So this just seems really weird to me, but the company I work for, Parrot,
> Inc., is releasing a new "Alternative Reality Quadaracopter" called the
> DRONE. Its some kind of toy/video game something that you can control from
> an iPhone or iPod Touch.
>
> I thought you all might be interested in it because they now have available
> an Open SDK to allow other to make new "video games" for it. This certain I
> would consider a whole new concept in the gaming word, one I don't pretend
> to understand. But I thought you all might be interested in it.
>
> http://www.parrot.com/parrot-ar-drone/en/project


From drew4096 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 11 05:11:27 2010
From: drew4096 at gmail.com (Drew)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 05:11:27 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>

I find myself with a lot of data to archive and back up - 120 GB of 
it, with possibly more to come at a
later date - and am considering DVDs and squashfs. Current DVD cost 
weighs in at 18 cents a disk
(Office Max), which is under 4 cents a gigabyte, which is less than 
half the cost of current terabyte
range hard drives as far as I know.

Still, before committing resources to this I thought it a good idea 
to consult the list on a couple of things.

Squashfs seems to give me compression down to from 66% to 77% of 
original size with most of the
files being PDFs. I had been hoping for something a bit better. Is 
there a way to specify better compression
methods? Is there a better filesystem to use? Or would I be better 
off using something like gzip or bz2?
I'd like to be able to mount these as loop devices.

Also, can an entire DVD be a squashfs filesystem? Or does it have to 
be wrapped in an iso?

----

- Drew.



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Jan 11 01:05:53 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 01:05:53 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e91001102205x7bee6499h3f398e139cd59427@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 5:11 AM, Drew <drew4096 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Squashfs seems to give me compression down to from 66% to 77% of
> original size with most of the
> files being PDFs. I had been hoping for something a bit better. Is
> there a way to specify better compression
> methods? Is there a better filesystem to use? Or would I be better
> off using something like gzip or bz2?
> I'd like to be able to mount these as loop devices.
>
> Also, can an entire DVD be a squashfs filesystem? Or does it have to
> be wrapped in an iso?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squashfs
http://tldp.org/HOWTO/SquashFS-HOWTO/mksqoverview.html#mksqoptions

Compression options are limited to gzip or lzma.

If you use file-based approach with gzip or bz2, use a separate file
for each source file.  Tar+anything is really slow for browsing as the
entire tar has to be extracted before opening.  I prefer 7zip for
large numbers of files in a single archive as it it very fast for
opening and browsing but it doesn't handle *nix file permissions.

Also consider damage potential.  You are likely to lose more data with
a damaged DVD using a single large archive or squashfs volume than
individual files.  Individual files are much easier to recover.  A
single file or filesytem will be somewhat more space efficient due to
less overhead (a single compression header instead of one for each
archive file).

Individual files also make it easier to incrementally add to the DVD.


From z_mikowski at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 11 01:27:27 2010
From: z_mikowski at yahoo.com (Michael Mikowski)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 22:27:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <781223.6150.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

At present pricing, I'd vote to buy a 1TB HD.  Recovery, access, and reliability would be much better, IMO.

Cheers, Mike




----- Original Message ----
From: Drew <drew4096 at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Mon, January 11, 2010 2:11:27 AM
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving

I find myself with a lot of data to archive and back up - 120 GB of 
it, with possibly more to come at a
later date - and am considering DVDs and squashfs. Current DVD cost 
weighs in at 18 cents a disk
(Office Max), which is under 4 cents a gigabyte, which is less than 
half the cost of current terabyte
range hard drives as far as I know.

Still, before committing resources to this I thought it a good idea 
to consult the list on a couple of things.

Squashfs seems to give me compression down to from 66% to 77% of 
original size with most of the
files being PDFs. I had been hoping for something a bit better. Is 
there a way to specify better compression
methods? Is there a better filesystem to use? Or would I be better 
off using something like gzip or bz2?
I'd like to be able to mount these as loop devices.

Also, can an entire DVD be a squashfs filesystem? Or does it have to 
be wrapped in an iso?

----

- Drew.

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 11 02:17:54 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 02:17:54 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B4AD0A2.10606@gmail.com>

Drew wrote:
> I find myself with a lot of data to archive and back up - 120 GB of 
> it, with possibly more to come at a
> later date - and am considering DVDs and squashfs. Current DVD cost 
> weighs in at 18 cents a disk
> (Office Max), which is under 4 cents a gigabyte, which is less than 
> half the cost of current terabyte
> range hard drives as far as I know.
> 
> Still, before committing resources to this I thought it a good idea 
> to consult the list on a couple of things.
> 
> Squashfs seems to give me compression down to from 66% to 77% of 
> original size with most of the
> files being PDFs. I had been hoping for something a bit better. Is 
> there a way to specify better compression
> methods? Is there a better filesystem to use? Or would I be better 
> off using something like gzip or bz2?
> I'd like to be able to mount these as loop devices.
> 
> Also, can an entire DVD be a squashfs filesystem? Or does it have to 
> be wrapped in an iso?

When ARCHIVING, the last thing you want is compression.
a 1-bit error can cause horrendous data loss.

And with burning DVD's... burning a DVD is literally
very heat-intensive (laser on it's highest setting).
Burning a bunch of DVD's, one after another, is a sure
way to shorten the lifespan of you DVD drive.

Buy a 250 - 500 GB disk (I find 2.5" laptop drives to
be the most convenient form factor for this) and put
it in an external USB case (E-sata is more expensive,
and with archives, controlling costs tends to be more
important than speed).


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 11 02:19:00 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 02:19:00 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <781223.6150.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
	<781223.6150.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4B4AD0E4.30107@gmail.com>

Michael Mikowski wrote:
> At present pricing, I'd vote to buy a 1TB HD.  Recovery, access, and reliability would be much better, IMO.
> 

Yep.  HD's don't get scratched like DVD's.



From john_re at fastmail.us  Mon Jan 11 07:13:25 2010
From: john_re at fastmail.us (giovanni_re)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 04:13:25 -0800
Subject: [mdlug] TONIGHT Join 5-6P Mon 11th - 1st Evening Meeting test IRC &
 VOIP online Linux at BerkeleyTIP-Global - for forwarding
Message-ID: <1263212005.4762.1354001243@webmail.messagingengine.com>

You're invited to the first test of the Global Linux bimonthly evening
meetings, BerkeleyTIP-Global.  :)

Join in tonight, Monday Jan 11, 5-6P Pacific, 8-9P Eastern, = Tues Jan
12 1A-2A UTC.
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/schedule

On #berkeleytip on irc.freenode.net,
& on voip - whatever is working - try btip server first.
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/remote-attendance

This will be an online only meeting - no in person meeting at UCB.

Hot topics:  Community Leadership Summit review of interesting sessions,
Spring 2010 efforts for UCB & all UC's & all college activities,
Upcoming KDE conference end of next week, for 1 week, in Los Angeles.

What do _you_ want to discuss?

==
Some people have asked for an evening meeting, because: a) they can't
make weekend meetings, b) they want more BTIP-Global. ;)

So, this will be a test, everyone invited, to see if we can make this
work.

==  BerkeleyTIP-Global is the Global All Free SW HW & Culture meeting
online via VOIP.
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/

Join the global mailing list, say "hi", & what you're interested in. :)
http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal

For Forwarding: You are invited to forward this announcement wherever it
might be appreciated.


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Mon Jan 11 11:15:10 2010
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:15:10 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441DF20@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Drew

> I find myself with a lot of data to archive and back up - 120 GB of
it, with possibly more to
> come at a later date - and am considering DVDs and squashfs.

 Burned optical media has a less-than-stellar reputation for reliability
in my experience.
Hard drives are generally held to be considerably more reliable,
long-term. If you wish to
use DVD media, however, see here:

 http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/12/11/1714232

 This article covers various brands of optical media and their projected
reliability.

> Is there a way to specify better compression methods? Is there a
better filesystem to use?
> Or would I be better off using something like gzip or bz2? I'd like to
be able to mount
> these as loop devices.

 What compression works best depends critically on the type of data
being compressed. I
suggest trying some different schemes and seeing what works best.
However, I'm not sure that
you can count on being able to loopback-mount gzipped files, while
squashfs is designed for
that. And already-compressed files (and PDFs usually have some internal
compression) don't
compress all that well, though.

 As others have noted, though, compression impacts reliability. Small
errors can be
catastrophic, especially when all the files are globbed into one big
block - if you can't
recover the whole package, you potentially lose multiple files.

 One solution is to add some redundancy... but that means more data to
store. The 'par2'
utility allows you to add redundancy in a controlled manner. Given a
partially-readable
file and the par2 redundancy files, you should be able to recover the
entire file...
so long as the damage isn't too severe.

> Also, can an entire DVD be a squashfs filesystem? Or does it have to
> be wrapped in an iso?

Based on my understanding, to write onto optical media needs a
filesystem format specifically
designed for that. So, either iso9660 or UDF.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                                  (313)
227-2317

 "A Georgia State University study shows that U.S. senators have an
uncanny
  knack for picking stocks that outpace the overall market. Professor
Alan
   Ziobrowski's analysis of senators' financial disclosure data found
that
   over a period of six years, the lawmakers outperformed the market by
12
      percent." - http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1751162

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.



From awilliam at opengroupware.us  Mon Jan 11 11:43:04 2010
From: awilliam at opengroupware.us (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:43:04 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1263228184.3247.9.camel@linux-m3mt>

On Mon, 2010-01-11 at 05:11 -0500, Drew wrote:
> I find myself with a lot of data to archive and back up - 120 GB of 
> it, with possibly more to come at a
> later date - and am considering DVDs and squashfs. Current DVD cost 
> weighs in at 18 cents a disk
> (Office Max), which is under 4 cents a gigabyte, which is less than 
> half the cost of current terabyte
> range hard drives as far as I know.

If you care about your data either (a) don't backup to DVD or (b) make 
multiple copies of each disc.

<quote source="WMOGAG">
The longevity of a burned CD is strongly influenced by environmental
factors. CDs used for backup should always be stored in clean jewel
cases [not sleeves!] at a reasonably constant 10?C - 15?C and 20% - 50%
relative humidity; even relatively brief periods of higher temperatures
can accelerate the aging of the media. Exposure to UV light also rapidly
decomposes the CD media; media should be stored in a dark place away
from sunlight. In general, optical media is a very poor choice as a
backup solution; claims that burned CDs should last for decades are
highly suspect.
</quote>

Tape is cheap, tape is reliable... buy a tape drive.

> Squashfs seems to give me compression down to from 66% to 77% of 
> original size with most of the
> files being PDFs. I had been hoping for something a bit better. Is 
> there a way to specify better compression
> methods? Is there a better filesystem to use? Or would I be better 
> off using something like gzip or bz2?
> I'd like to be able to mount these as loop devices.

PDFs are usually pre-compressed (internally).  I doubt anything is going
to give you much better than ~50% (you are lucky to be getting the rates
you are) except at very high CPU cost.

> Also, can an entire DVD be a squashfs filesystem? Or does it have to 
> be wrapped in an iso?

To be readable my anything 'normal' it must be an ISO.

-- 
OpenGroupware developer: awilliam at whitemice.org
<http://whitemiceconsulting.blogspot.com/>
OpenGroupare & Cyrus IMAPd documenation @
<http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/whitemice/wmogag/file_view>



From driveray at ameritech.net  Mon Jan 11 14:35:05 2010
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 14:35:05 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441DF20@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441DF20@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <4B4B7D69.1010702@ameritech.net>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>> From: Drew
> 
>> Also, can an entire DVD be a squashfs filesystem? Or does it have to
>> be wrapped in an iso?
> 
> Based on my understanding, to write onto optical media needs a
> filesystem format specifically
> designed for that. So, either iso9660 or UDF.
> 
>  Sincerely,
> 
>  Ray Ingles                                                  (313)
> 227-2317

Just for grims, mostly, I have tinkered with writing other formats to
optical media, and found it can work. The command line cdrecord, or the
later wodim, will write any binary blob you feed it to the media without
complaint. You can do the same with K3b. It will give you stern
warnings, but let you proceed if you insist that you know what you are
doing.

I have written ext3 and ntfs filesystems to DVD in this manner.

Here is a procedure I used for creating a 4GB encrypted data DVD:

1. Using K3B create a standard ISO of the filesystem.

2. Using cp make a copy of this ISO. This creates a binary file exactly
the right size to contain the encrypted ISO.
  $ cp  data.iso crypt.iso

3. Link the second ISO to a loopback device, with encryption:
  $ losetup -e blowfish256 /dev/loop7 crypt.iso
  Password: ************************

4. Write data.iso to crypt.iso through the encrypted loop device.
  $ dd if=data.iso of=/dev/loop7

5. After writing completes, disconnect the loop device.
  $ losetup -d /dev/loop7

6. Test your encrypted ISO:
  $ mount -o loop,encryption=blowfish256 crypt.iso mnt
  Password: *************************

7. Once you are sure certain that the encrypted ISO works use K3B to
write it to your media. As mentioned K3B will object, but should allow
you to do it.

Of course such media require manual mounting and root or sudo-root
permissions, as do steps 3-7 above. But for grins at least, it can be done.





From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Mon Jan 11 15:08:13 2010
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 15:08:13 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <4B4B7D69.1010702@ameritech.net>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441DF20@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<4B4B7D69.1010702@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46901EC894A80@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

It should work like any other block device... or rather, since Linux is Unix(-like), any *file*.

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Raymond McLaughlin
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 2:35 PM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>> From: Drew
> 
>> Also, can an entire DVD be a squashfs filesystem? Or does it have to
>> be wrapped in an iso?
> 
> Based on my understanding, to write onto optical media needs a
> filesystem format specifically
> designed for that. So, either iso9660 or UDF.
> 
>  Sincerely,
> 
>  Ray Ingles                                                  (313)
> 227-2317

Just for grims, mostly, I have tinkered with writing other formats to
optical media, and found it can work. The command line cdrecord, or the
later wodim, will write any binary blob you feed it to the media without
complaint. You can do the same with K3b. It will give you stern
warnings, but let you proceed if you insist that you know what you are
doing.

I have written ext3 and ntfs filesystems to DVD in this manner.

Here is a procedure I used for creating a 4GB encrypted data DVD:

1. Using K3B create a standard ISO of the filesystem.

2. Using cp make a copy of this ISO. This creates a binary file exactly
the right size to contain the encrypted ISO.
  $ cp  data.iso crypt.iso

3. Link the second ISO to a loopback device, with encryption:
  $ losetup -e blowfish256 /dev/loop7 crypt.iso
  Password: ************************

4. Write data.iso to crypt.iso through the encrypted loop device.
  $ dd if=data.iso of=/dev/loop7

5. After writing completes, disconnect the loop device.
  $ losetup -d /dev/loop7

6. Test your encrypted ISO:
  $ mount -o loop,encryption=blowfish256 crypt.iso mnt
  Password: *************************

7. Once you are sure certain that the encrypted ISO works use K3B to
write it to your media. As mentioned K3B will object, but should allow
you to do it.

Of course such media require manual mounting and root or sudo-root
permissions, as do steps 3-7 above. But for grins at least, it can be done.



_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Mon Jan 11 15:23:53 2010
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 15:23:53 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <4B4B7D69.1010702@ameritech.net>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com><319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441DF20@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<4B4B7D69.1010702@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441DF94@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Raymond McLaughlin
> Ingles, Raymond wrote:

> > Based on my understanding, to write onto optical media needs a
> > filesystem format specifically
> > designed for that. So, either iso9660 or UDF.

> Just for grims, mostly, I have tinkered with writing other formats to
> optical media, and found it can work. The command line cdrecord, or
the
> later wodim, will write any binary blob you feed it to the media
without
> complaint. You can do the same with K3b. It will give you stern
> warnings, but let you proceed if you insist that you know what you are
> doing.

 Doesn't that in essence create an iso9660 filesystem with one file the
binary blob?
Or have I misunderstood? (I wouldn't be surprised if I had...)

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                (313) 227-2317

         Microsoft Windows - The joke that kills.

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.



From driveray at ameritech.net  Mon Jan 11 15:43:28 2010
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 15:43:28 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441DF94@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com><319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441DF20@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<4B4B7D69.1010702@ameritech.net>
	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441DF94@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <4B4B8D70.4080101@ameritech.net>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>> From: Raymond McLaughlin
>> Ingles, Raymond wrote:
> 
>>> Based on my understanding, to write onto optical media needs a
>>> filesystem format specifically
>>> designed for that. So, either iso9660 or UDF.
> 
>> Just for grims, mostly, I have tinkered with writing other formats to
>> optical media, and found it can work. The command line cdrecord, or
> the
>> later wodim, will write any binary blob you feed it to the media
> without
>> complaint. You can do the same with K3b. It will give you stern
>> warnings, but let you proceed if you insist that you know what you are
>> doing.
> 
>  Doesn't that in essence create an iso9660 filesystem with one file the
> binary blob?
> Or have I misunderstood? (I wouldn't be surprised if I had...)

I guess I was not entirely clear. The crypt.iso is written to the disk
using K3B's "Tools--->Burn DVD iso image ..." feature, not the create
new data DVD feature.

>  Sincerely,
> 
>  Ray Ingles                                (313) 227-2317


From driveray at ameritech.net  Mon Jan 11 15:46:54 2010
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 15:46:54 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <4B4B8D70.4080101@ameritech.net>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com><319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441DF20@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<4B4B7D69.1010702@ameritech.net>	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441DF94@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<4B4B8D70.4080101@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <4B4B8E3E.3010703@ameritech.net>

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> 
> I guess I was not entirely clear. The crypt.iso is written to the disk
> using K3B's "Tools--->Burn DVD iso image ..." feature, not the create
> new data DVD feature.

When you select you encrypted blob as the iso image you will get a
warning the K3B doesn't think it is a proper ISO9660 image file. But it
will let you proceed with the burn if you insist.


From z_mikowski at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 11 16:29:26 2010
From: z_mikowski at yahoo.com (Michael Mikowski)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 13:29:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <4B4B8E3E.3010703@ameritech.net>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com><319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441DF20@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<4B4B7D69.1010702@ameritech.net>
	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441DF94@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<4B4B8D70.4080101@ameritech.net> <4B4B8E3E.3010703@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <837141.56844.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

FWIW, I would still look at disk-to-disk backup.  Check out the Bacula manual, which has a tutorial.  One could use a usb device or SATA drive, and the convenience, speed, reliability, restore times, etc. would be superior to trying to physically manage many DVDs.


Once you fill up a 1TB drive, you could probably set it in a vault and start a fresh one as a new volume.  However, you certainly would not need to swap your backup drive nearly as often as a DVD.  If my math is right, you would be swapping 100-200 DVD's before matching the capacity of a single 1TB drive.  And that is not considering the additional space for unused blocks on the DVD's.



----- Original Message ----
From: Raymond McLaughlin <driveray at ameritech.net>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Mon, January 11, 2010 12:46:54 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> 
> I guess I was not entirely clear. The crypt.iso is written to the disk
> using K3B's "Tools--->Burn DVD iso image ..." feature, not the create
> new data DVD feature.

When you select you encrypted blob as the iso image you will get a
warning the K3B doesn't think it is a proper ISO9660 image file. But it
will let you proceed with the burn if you insist.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From robert.citek at gmail.com  Tue Jan 12 07:03:05 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 07:03:05 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4145b6791001120403l692c7c7bra1fc399ad14a409a@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 5:11 AM, Drew <drew4096 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I find myself with a lot of data to archive and back up

Can you describe a couple of use-case scenarios?  That is, under what
conditions do you see yourself retrieving the data and for what
purpose?  For example, do you see yourself in a year or more from now
searching through DVDs to find the one PDF you are looking for?

Regards,
- Robert


From danno at umich.edu  Tue Jan 12 11:41:32 2010
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 11:41:32 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <1263228184.3247.9.camel@linux-m3mt>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
	<1263228184.3247.9.camel@linux-m3mt>
Message-ID: <20100112164132.GA91398@maniac.deathstar.org>

On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:43:04AM -0500, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> If you care about your data either (a) don't backup to DVD or (b) make 
> multiple copies of each disc.

also, use par2 on the DVDs.  

 http://parchive.sourceforge.net/

> Tape is cheap, tape is reliable... buy a tape drive.

Indeed.

as long as you can find a working drive for whatever tape format
you choose (hint, choose the market leader), tape is the most likely
thing to be readable 20 years from now.

this is one possible option:

  http://www.jakeludington.com/project_studio/20050828_backup_files_to_dv_camera.html

but i don't necessarily trust the idea; it's not clear to me that dv video media
is bit-level reliable.  It's not clear to me that it's not, either.

Hmm, this problem has been addressed:

  http://www.s.netic.de/gfiala/dvbackup.html


re: hard drives:

They are probably more reliable than burned DVDs.  Long-term, though,
they're nowhere near tape.

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Tue Jan 12 12:17:50 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 12:17:50 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <20100112164132.GA91398@maniac.deathstar.org>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
	<1263228184.3247.9.camel@linux-m3mt>
	<20100112164132.GA91398@maniac.deathstar.org>
Message-ID: <4145b6791001120917x69694cd8m7faddb5fd2ba8546@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Dan Pritts <danno at umich.edu> wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:43:04AM -0500, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
>> Tape is cheap, tape is reliable... buy a tape drive.
>
> Indeed.
>
> as long as you can find a working drive for whatever tape format
> you choose (hint, choose the market leader), tape is the most likely
> thing to be readable 20 years from now.

Is that a requirement?  That is, does the OP need to be able to read
the data in 20 years from now?

Regards,
- Robert


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Tue Jan 12 12:19:37 2010
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 12:19:37 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <20100112164132.GA91398@maniac.deathstar.org>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com><1263228184.3247.9.camel@linux-m3mt>
	<20100112164132.GA91398@maniac.deathstar.org>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E0CE@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Dan Pritts

> Hmm, this problem has been addressed:
> 
>   http://www.s.netic.de/gfiala/dvbackup.html

 Warning: after about 10 years, our DV camcorder (the older Digital-8
format, DV video on Hi8 tapes) has failed. It no longer reliably reads
tapes. We borrowed a neighbor's camcorder for my recent bulk DV
conversion. The tapes themselves, of course, were still quite readable.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                      (313) 227-2317

 "Hope costs. Once you concede that problems can be solved, you
  have to get up off your ***. Despair, by contrast, is cheap,
    self-powering, eliminates unwanted guilt, and requires -
            permits - no effort." - Spider Robinson

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.



From awilliam at opengroupware.us  Tue Jan 12 13:21:52 2010
From: awilliam at opengroupware.us (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 13:21:52 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791001120917x69694cd8m7faddb5fd2ba8546@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
	<1263228184.3247.9.camel@linux-m3mt>
	<20100112164132.GA91398@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<4145b6791001120917x69694cd8m7faddb5fd2ba8546@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1263320512.8469.1.camel@linux-m3mt>

On Tue, 2010-01-12 at 12:17 -0500, Robert Citek wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Dan Pritts <danno at umich.edu> wrote:
> > On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:43:04AM -0500, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> >> Tape is cheap, tape is reliable... buy a tape drive.
> > Indeed.
> > as long as you can find a working drive for whatever tape format
> > you choose (hint, choose the market leader), tape is the most likely
> > thing to be readable 20 years from now.
> Is that a requirement?  That is, does the OP need to be able to read
> the data in 20 years from now?

Hint: buy a second tape drive 5 years from now when that technology is
much cheaper.  Or go crazy and buy two.



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Tue Jan 12 14:48:39 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 14:48:39 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <1263320512.8469.1.camel@linux-m3mt>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
	<1263228184.3247.9.camel@linux-m3mt>
	<20100112164132.GA91398@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<4145b6791001120917x69694cd8m7faddb5fd2ba8546@mail.gmail.com>
	<1263320512.8469.1.camel@linux-m3mt>
Message-ID: <b02c40e91001121148u47918e15hd6b66514aab8a1c3@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Adam Tauno Williams
<awilliam at opengroupware.us> wrote:
>
> Hint: buy a second tape drive 5 years from now when that technology is
> much cheaper. ?Or go crazy and buy two.
>

Also keep a copy of the current PDF readers as the format will change
over the years and todays PDFs may not be compatible with the
applications of tomorrow.

Obviously this implies keeping a copy of the OS and support libraries.
 Since x86 may be long gone in ten years you should probably keep a PC
in storage to support the software and drives.

(this only sounds ridiculous to those who haven't been involved in
corporate data archiving)


From tesral at wowway.com  Tue Jan 12 15:19:42 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 15:19:42 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e91001121148u47918e15hd6b66514aab8a1c3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>	<1263228184.3247.9.camel@linux-m3mt>	<20100112164132.GA91398@maniac.deathstar.org>	<4145b6791001120917x69694cd8m7faddb5fd2ba8546@mail.gmail.com>	<1263320512.8469.1.camel@linux-m3mt>
	<b02c40e91001121148u47918e15hd6b66514aab8a1c3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B4CD95E.6030304@wowway.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> Also keep a copy of the current PDF readers as the format will change
> over the years and todays PDFs may not be compatible with the
> applications of tomorrow.
>
> Obviously this implies keeping a copy of the OS and support libraries.
>  Since x86 may be long gone in ten years you should probably keep a PC
> in storage to support the software and drives.
>
> (this only sounds ridiculous to those who haven't been involved in
> corporate data archiving)

There is a lot to be said for paper.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? -Mohandas K. Gandhi  
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From drew4096 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 13 00:42:51 2010
From: drew4096 at gmail.com (Drew)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 00:42:51 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791001120403l692c7c7bra1fc399ad14a409a@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
	<4145b6791001120403l692c7c7bra1fc399ad14a409a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20100113001909.02e24010@pop.gmail.com>

At 07:03 AM 1/12/10, Robert Citek wrote:
>Can you describe a couple of use-case scenarios?  That is, under what
>conditions do you see yourself retrieving the data and for what
>purpose?  For example, do you see yourself in a year or more from now
>searching through DVDs to find the one PDF you are looking for?

They are a bunch of books - enough to stock a small city library - 
sorted into directories
according to category. So yes, I  would  be often loading a labeled 
DVD in (and loop
mounting the big file on it if applicable) to read a particular book, 
or peruse the selection.

I do have, or will have, as soon as I'm sure everything has been 
moved from it or is not
needed, a spare 160 GB drive. (The old main system drive.) I could 
use that for regular
service, until I can afford Terabyte-size drives.

And I may not need as much space as I thought. I have been finding 
instances of duplication,
triplication, and quadruplication of content, including directories 
named after author Firstname
Lastname, and same author Lastname Firstname with mostly the same 
titles, and the same title
in multiple formats (pdf, txt, and html). I'm not sure just how much 
space is accounted for by this
duplication, but some of it at least can be recovered.

I have more cleaning up to do on it. The creator of this collection 
committed the cardinal
sin of using whitespace characters in all the file and directory 
names. I've written a script to
correct this, but I'll still be a while fixing things.

As for tape, I remember having recovery problems when I relied on it 
for backups, which drove me
to magneto-optical media, and then to CDR when it became affordable.

----

- Drew.



From micorral at comcast.net  Tue Jan 12 20:05:12 2010
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 20:05:12 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e91001121148u47918e15hd6b66514aab8a1c3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
	<1263228184.3247.9.camel@linux-m3mt>
	<20100112164132.GA91398@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<4145b6791001120917x69694cd8m7faddb5fd2ba8546@mail.gmail.com>
	<1263320512.8469.1.camel@linux-m3mt>
	<b02c40e91001121148u47918e15hd6b66514aab8a1c3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.1001121957490.2353@banana.sluggo.net>

2010-01-12, Monsieur Jeff Hanson a ecrit:
> Obviously this implies keeping a copy of the OS and support libraries.
> Since x86 may be long gone in ten years you should probably keep a PC
> in storage to support the software and drives.
>
> (this only sounds ridiculous to those who haven't been involved in
> corporate data archiving)

Good advice.

Even in Linux, there are some old X11 apps that will segfault with newer
versions of the Xorg server (e.g. Corel WordPerfect 8.1 for Linux).
I keep a Fedora Core 4 box around just to run that and a few other
old apps (including some libc5-based ones).

Michael


From jrw32982 at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 13 13:19:12 2010
From: jrw32982 at yahoo.com (John Wiersba)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 10:19:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1263402001.18115.mdlug@mdlug.org>
References: <mailman.1.1263402001.18115.mdlug@mdlug.org>
Message-ID: <616781.70147.qm@web52708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

> From: Garry Stahl <tesral at wowway.com>

>
> > Jeff Hanson wrote:
> > Also keep a copy of the current PDF readers as the format will change
> > over the years and todays PDFs may not be compatible with the
> > applications of tomorrow.
> >
> > Obviously this implies keeping a copy of the OS and support libraries.
> >  Since x86 may be long gone in ten years you should probably keep a PC
> > in storage to support the software and drives.
> >
> > (this only sounds ridiculous to those who haven't been involved in
> > corporate data archiving)
> 
> There is a lot to be said for paper.

And there's a lot to be said for ASCII (text) data.

-- John Wiersba



      

From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 13 17:20:46 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 17:20:46 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20100113001909.02e24010@pop.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>	<4145b6791001120403l692c7c7bra1fc399ad14a409a@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.0.20100113001909.02e24010@pop.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B4E473E.9000204@gmail.com>

Drew wrote:
> At 07:03 AM 1/12/10, Robert Citek wrote:
>> Can you describe a couple of use-case scenarios?  That is, under what
>> conditions do you see yourself retrieving the data and for what
>> purpose?  For example, do you see yourself in a year or more from now
>> searching through DVDs to find the one PDF you are looking for?
> 
> They are a bunch of books - enough to stock a small city library - 
> sorted into directories
> according to category. So yes, I  would  be often loading a labeled 
> DVD in (and loop
> mounting the big file on it if applicable) to read a particular book, 
> or peruse the selection.
> 
> I do have, or will have, as soon as I'm sure everything has been 
> moved from it or is not
> needed, a spare 160 GB drive. (The old main system drive.) I could 
> use that for regular
> service, until I can afford Terabyte-size drives.
> 
> And I may not need as much space as I thought. I have been finding 
> instances of duplication,
> triplication, and quadruplication of content, including directories 
> named after author Firstname
> Lastname, and same author Lastname Firstname with mostly the same 
> titles, and the same title
> in multiple formats (pdf, txt, and html). I'm not sure just how much 
> space is accounted for by this
> duplication, but some of it at least can be recovered.
> 
> I have more cleaning up to do on it. The creator of this collection 
> committed the cardinal
> sin of using whitespace characters in all the file and directory 
> names. I've written a script to
> correct this, but I'll still be a while fixing things.
> 
> As for tape, I remember having recovery problems when I relied on it 
> for backups, which drove me
> to magneto-optical media, and then to CDR when it became affordable.
> 

a 500 GB 2.5" drive in a USB carrier is about $100 these days.


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 13 18:06:30 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 18:06:30 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] MDLUG January meeting?
Message-ID: <4B4E51F6.7050505@gmail.com>

I haven't seen a notice yet

Is it this weekend?


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Wed Jan 13 18:22:10 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 18:22:10 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <4B4E473E.9000204@gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
	<4145b6791001120403l692c7c7bra1fc399ad14a409a@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.0.20100113001909.02e24010@pop.gmail.com>
	<4B4E473E.9000204@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4145b6791001131522x376a183ckacf2dce92b91cf21@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 5:20 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
> a 500 GB 2.5" drive in a USB carrier is about $100 these days.

Or if you want to go for the more industrial/geeky look, for that same
$100 you can get a 1TB drive ($80) and a SATA to USB dock ($20):

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4691121&CatId=2459

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4259603&CatId=2785

For comparison, here's the pricing for tape drives and tape cartridges:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?CatId=291

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?CatId=63

Regards,
- Robert


From mat.enders at gmail.com  Wed Jan 13 20:35:07 2010
From: mat.enders at gmail.com (Mathew Enders)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 20:35:07 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] MDLUG January meeting?
In-Reply-To: <4B4E51F6.7050505@gmail.com>
References: <4B4E51F6.7050505@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B4E74CB.5000405@gmail.com>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> I haven't seen a notice yet
> 
> Is it this weekend?
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 
It was last weekend


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 14 00:11:23 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 00:11:23 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] MDLUG January meeting?
In-Reply-To: <4B4E74CB.5000405@gmail.com>
References: <4B4E51F6.7050505@gmail.com> <4B4E74CB.5000405@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B4EA77B.7030909@gmail.com>

Mathew Enders wrote:
> Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>> I haven't seen a notice yet
>>
>> Is it this weekend?
>>
> It was last weekend

:-(


From awilliam at opengroupware.us  Thu Jan 14 06:41:27 2010
From: awilliam at opengroupware.us (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 06:41:27 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791001131522x376a183ckacf2dce92b91cf21@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
	<4145b6791001120403l692c7c7bra1fc399ad14a409a@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.0.20100113001909.02e24010@pop.gmail.com>
	<4B4E473E.9000204@gmail.com>
	<4145b6791001131522x376a183ckacf2dce92b91cf21@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1263469287.3166.2.camel@linux-m3mt>

On Wed, 2010-01-13 at 18:22 -0500, Robert Citek wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 5:20 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > a 500 GB 2.5" drive in a USB carrier is about $100 these days.
> 
> Or if you want to go for the more industrial/geeky look, for that same
> $100 you can get a 1TB drive ($80) and a SATA to USB dock ($20):

*One* hard drive is a really terrible archival strategy,  you need at
least mirrored pairs in dual drive caddies.  This doesn't remain a cheap
strategy for long.  Or else two caddies who perform dual backups to.

> For comparison, here's the pricing for tape drives and tape cartridges:
> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?CatId=291
> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?CatId=63

DAT4 drives and media can be gotten quite inexpensively, are durable,
and the media last a l-o-n-g time.




From robert.citek at gmail.com  Thu Jan 14 08:00:09 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 08:00:09 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <1263469287.3166.2.camel@linux-m3mt>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
	<4145b6791001120403l692c7c7bra1fc399ad14a409a@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.0.20100113001909.02e24010@pop.gmail.com>
	<4B4E473E.9000204@gmail.com>
	<4145b6791001131522x376a183ckacf2dce92b91cf21@mail.gmail.com>
	<1263469287.3166.2.camel@linux-m3mt>
Message-ID: <4145b6791001140500m46e374bbsa6f183f0c69c5dee@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 6:41 AM, Adam Tauno Williams
<awilliam at opengroupware.us> wrote:
> On Wed, 2010-01-13 at 18:22 -0500, Robert Citek wrote:
>> On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 5:20 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > a 500 GB 2.5" drive in a USB carrier is about $100 these days.
>>
>> Or if you want to go for the more industrial/geeky look, for that same
>> $100 you can get a 1TB drive ($80) and a SATA to USB dock ($20):
>
> *One* hard drive is a really terrible archival strategy,

*one* of anything is "bad" for archiving.  But that sisue has already
been addressed:

On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Adam Tauno Williams
<awilliam at opengroupware.us> wrote:
> Hint: buy a second tape drive 5 years from now when that technology is
> much cheaper.  Or go crazy and buy two.

sed -e 's/tape/hard/'

Regards,
- Robert


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Fri Jan 15 09:19:30 2010
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 09:19:30 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Laptop woes - Knoppix boots but Ubuntu doesn't?
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E47C@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>


 I'd thought my laptop was dead - it stopped booting one night and
nothing I tried managed a successful boot. I was looking into netbooks.
Post-xmas, we have the money assembled for one, but I took one last look
at the laptop we have. 

 I tried Ubuntu desktop live CDs (both 9.04 and 9.10), and it came up
with the basic splash screen... but attempting to boot the full kernel
failed - just a blinking cursor in the corner of the screen. On a whim,
I tried a Knoppix live DVD... and to my surprise I was able to boot to X
and everything. A bit of tweaking and I was even able to mount the hard
drive.

 So, something in the hardware has apparently failed in such a way that
Ubuntu won't boot but Knoppix will. Very strange. Anyone seen anything
like that? I'm going to try the Ubuntu "alternate install", which might
let me actually see the kernel messages on boot. I'm also going to try
some other distros, like OpenSUSE or Fedora. It'd be nice to resurrect
this thing.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                           (313) 227-2317

 "The computing industry is given 12 months to deploy a technology
 that does not exist and whose sole purpose is to protect profits.
 The car industry was allowed decades to deploy safety features such
    as seat belts and air bags that were designed to save lives."
   - Zeinfeld, on the SSSCA, a proposed law that would mandate all
 computers to prevent any file copying whatsoever unless explicitly
          approved by the entertainment conglomerates

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.



From petertheplumber at att.net  Fri Jan 15 15:28:22 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 15:28:22 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Adobe FileOpen Plugin Security Risk?
Message-ID: <1263587302.4604.32.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

Hi Everyone,
	Today I downloaded a manual from <http://www.techstreet.com/> that
required I install a plugin to be able to read it from
<http://plugin.fileopen.com/all.html>. As best as I can figure out it's
some sort of DRM. I ran the installer from the shell, and it had to be
root. Then I found <http://www.fileopen.com/pdf_plug_in_faq.php#a9>, but
I'd allready ran the installer. I know I should have checked a little
more thoroughly, but here I am. Below is the screen output from when I
ran the script, and I still have the installer script as well. It
doesn't look like I compromised my system, but this is not my area of
expertise. Anyone want to venture a guess? Anyone heard of this before?

plumber-notebook:/home/peter/Downloads/adobe/file_open_inst/FileOpenInstaller # /home/peter/Downloads/adobe/file_open_inst/FileOpenInstaller/commandline_installer.sh

*************** FileOpen Plug-in Installer ***************

Removing any old installation files...
Removing any previously installed plug-ins...
Trying to read Acrobat Reader version...
Path to executable : /usr/bin/acroread
Acrobat Reader version 8.1.7 found.
Checking if ./FileOpen.AR8.api exists...yes
Using FileOpen plug-in from current directory...
Checking if downloaded ./FileOpen.AR8.api exists...yes

Installing plug-in for current user...
Correcting permissions...
Installation was successful.
plumber-notebook:/home/peter/Downloads/adobe/file_open_inst/FileOpenInstaller # 



-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Fri Jan 15 15:46:30 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 15:46:30 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Laptop woes - Knoppix boots but Ubuntu doesn't?
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E47C@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E47C@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <b02c40e91001151246h6eaa5d93wef7c563605030f5@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 9:19 AM, Ingles, Raymond
<Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:
> ?So, something in the hardware has apparently failed in such a way that
> Ubuntu won't boot but Knoppix will. Very strange. Anyone seen anything
> like that? I'm going to try the Ubuntu "alternate install", which might
> let me actually see the kernel messages on boot. I'm also going to try
> some other distros, like OpenSUSE or Fedora. It'd be nice to resurrect
> this thing.

If it didn't break because of an update then run a RAM test.


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Fri Jan 15 16:01:24 2010
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 16:01:24 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Laptop woes - Knoppix boots but Ubuntu doesn't?
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e91001151246h6eaa5d93wef7c563605030f5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E47C@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<b02c40e91001151246h6eaa5d93wef7c563605030f5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E584@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

It got 40% through one pass last night, forgot to mention before. I'll let it run a full pass, but in my experience with dodgy RAM, if there's a problem it's usually found pretty quickly.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                            (313) 227-2317

 Microsoft complaining about the source license used by Linux is like
       the event horizon calling the kettle black. - Adam Barr

> 
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.

> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of
> Jeff Hanson
> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 3:47 PM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Laptop woes - Knoppix boots but Ubuntu doesn't?
> 
> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 9:19 AM, Ingles, Raymond
> <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:
> >  So, something in the hardware has apparently failed in such a way that
> > Ubuntu won't boot but Knoppix will. Very strange. Anyone seen anything
> > like that? I'm going to try the Ubuntu "alternate install", which might
> > let me actually see the kernel messages on boot. I'm also going to try
> > some other distros, like OpenSUSE or Fedora. It'd be nice to resurrect
> > this thing.
> 
> If it didn't break because of an update then run a RAM test.
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




From mat.enders at gmail.com  Fri Jan 15 17:48:47 2010
From: mat.enders at gmail.com (Mathew Enders)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 17:48:47 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Adobe FileOpen Plugin Security Risk?
In-Reply-To: <1263587302.4604.32.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
References: <1263587302.4604.32.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <4B50F0CF.6070206@gmail.com>

Peter Bart wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
> 	Today I downloaded a manual from <http://www.techstreet.com/> that
> required I install a plugin to be able to read it from
> <http://plugin.fileopen.com/all.html>. As best as I can figure out it's
> some sort of DRM. I ran the installer from the shell, and it had to be
> root. Then I found <http://www.fileopen.com/pdf_plug_in_faq.php#a9>, but
> I'd allready ran the installer. I know I should have checked a little
> more thoroughly, but here I am. Below is the screen output from when I
> ran the script, and I still have the installer script as well. It
> doesn't look like I compromised my system, but this is not my area of
> expertise. Anyone want to venture a guess? Anyone heard of this before?
> 
> plumber-notebook:/home/peter/Downloads/adobe/file_open_inst/FileOpenInstaller # /home/peter/Downloads/adobe/file_open_inst/FileOpenInstaller/commandline_installer.sh
> 
> *************** FileOpen Plug-in Installer ***************
> 
> Removing any old installation files...
> Removing any previously installed plug-ins...
> Trying to read Acrobat Reader version...
> Path to executable : /usr/bin/acroread
> Acrobat Reader version 8.1.7 found.
> Checking if ./FileOpen.AR8.api exists...yes
> Using FileOpen plug-in from current directory...
> Checking if downloaded ./FileOpen.AR8.api exists...yes
> 
> Installing plug-in for current user...
> Correcting permissions...
> Installation was successful.
> plumber-notebook:/home/peter/Downloads/adobe/file_open_inst/FileOpenInstaller # 
> 
> 
> 
It is definetly doing DRM but you are not exposed I do not believe it 
only runs with your limitded user permissions and just does a check at 
the publishers website.


From petertheplumber at att.net  Fri Jan 15 18:17:55 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 18:17:55 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Adobe FileOpen Plugin Security Risk?
In-Reply-To: <4B50F0CF.6070206@gmail.com>
References: <1263587302.4604.32.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
	<4B50F0CF.6070206@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1263597475.4604.34.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

On Fri, 2010-01-15 at 17:48 -0500, Mathew Enders wrote:
> Peter Bart wrote:
> > Hi Everyone,
> > 	Today I downloaded a manual from <http://www.techstreet.com/> that
> > required I install a plugin to be able to read it from
> > <http://plugin.fileopen.com/all.html>. As best as I can figure out it's
> > some sort of DRM. I ran the installer from the shell, and it had to be
> > root. Then I found <http://www.fileopen.com/pdf_plug_in_faq.php#a9>, but
> > I'd allready ran the installer. I know I should have checked a little
> > more thoroughly, but here I am. Below is the screen output from when I
> > ran the script, and I still have the installer script as well. It
> > doesn't look like I compromised my system, but this is not my area of
> > expertise. Anyone want to venture a guess? Anyone heard of this before?
> > 
> > plumber-notebook:/home/peter/Downloads/adobe/file_open_inst/FileOpenInstaller # /home/peter/Downloads/adobe/file_open_inst/FileOpenInstaller/commandline_installer.sh
> > 
> > *************** FileOpen Plug-in Installer ***************
> > 
> > Removing any old installation files...
> > Removing any previously installed plug-ins...
> > Trying to read Acrobat Reader version...
> > Path to executable : /usr/bin/acroread
> > Acrobat Reader version 8.1.7 found.
> > Checking if ./FileOpen.AR8.api exists...yes
> > Using FileOpen plug-in from current directory...
> > Checking if downloaded ./FileOpen.AR8.api exists...yes
> > 
> > Installing plug-in for current user...
> > Correcting permissions...
> > Installation was successful.
> > plumber-notebook:/home/peter/Downloads/adobe/file_open_inst/FileOpenInstaller # 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> It is definetly doing DRM but you are not exposed I do not believe it 
> only runs with your limitded user permissions and just does a check at 
> the publishers website.

	Thanks, I didn't see anything like installsecretrootkitandkeylogger in
the install script. But I wanted to check.

-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber



From drew4096 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 15 23:14:05 2010
From: drew4096 at gmail.com (Drew)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 23:14:05 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Laptop woes - Knoppix boots but Ubuntu doesn't?
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E47C@nasa-dtw-ex004.na
	sa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E47C@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20100115231128.02e58940@pop.gmail.com>

At 09:19 AM 1/15/10, Ingles, Raymond wrote:


>  So, something in the hardware has apparently failed in such a way that
>Ubuntu won't boot but Knoppix will. Very strange. Anyone seen anything
>like that?


I have found that my PC-OS Live Boot partition fails to boot if I 
have too many partitions on
the hard drive - Or at least, fails to start the GUI - while other 
versions of linux don't have
this problem.

----

- Drew.



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 15 18:52:15 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 18:52:15 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Laptop woes - Knoppix boots but Ubuntu doesn't?
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E584@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E47C@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<b02c40e91001151246h6eaa5d93wef7c563605030f5@mail.gmail.com>
	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E584@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <4B50FFAF.50602@gmail.com>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
> It got 40% through one pass last night, forgot to mention before. I'll let it run a full pass, but in my experience with dodgy RAM, if there's a problem it's usually found pretty quickly.
> 


You mean like at booting up....

Or do you mean "in the first few days as opposed to years later"
In which case, you would be only half right.



Electronic failure curves tend to look like this:

% failure
	|
	|
	|
	|                                -
	|                               / \
	|                              /   \
	|\                            /     \
	+_\_________________________- ___+___-___________>
					MTBF		time->
         ^                               ^
         |                               | 
         +--- marginal product           +-- Bulk of production
	 which manages to pass               which passes QC tests.
	 quality control tests.


>  Sincerely,
> 
>  Ray Ingles                                            (313) 227-2317
> 
>  Microsoft complaining about the source license used by Linux is like
>        the event horizon calling the kettle black. - Adam Barr
> 
> The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.
> 
>> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of
>> Jeff Hanson
>> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 3:47 PM
>> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
>> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Laptop woes - Knoppix boots but Ubuntu doesn't?
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 9:19 AM, Ingles, Raymond
>> <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:
>>>  So, something in the hardware has apparently failed in such a way that
>>> Ubuntu won't boot but Knoppix will. Very strange. Anyone seen anything
>>> like that? I'm going to try the Ubuntu "alternate install", which might
>>> let me actually see the kernel messages on boot. I'm also going to try
>>> some other distros, like OpenSUSE or Fedora. It'd be nice to resurrect
>>> this thing.
>> If it didn't break because of an update then run a RAM test.
>> _______________________________________________
>> mdlug mailing list
>> mdlug at mdlug.org
>> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From skyefire at skyefire.org  Sat Jan 16 16:35:00 2010
From: skyefire at skyefire.org (David McMillan)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 16:35:00 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Background task accessing web pages
Message-ID: <4B523104.3090703@skyefire.org>


   Hey, all.  I'm currently stuck in France, at a hotel (companny trip, 
hence cheap) whose internet is "free"... as long as I keep opening up 
their ad-page front-end every 10min and begging for free access again. 
Any download that lasts more than 10min just isn't happening.  I could 
live with that, but getting constantly logged off every 10min is 
annoying -- any page I access gets re-directed to the "click on this ad 
for free access" page, and I have to click on the link.  And THEN re-do 
my URL, b/c the free-access page doesn't redirect to my original 
destination.  Welcome to ad-supported internet, I guess.  And no, 
there's no way to "buy up" to uninterrupted access.

   So, my thought:  how hard could it be to start a background task 
(maybe a lynx session) that would periodically open the free-access 
login page and click the correct links?

   The sequence is this:  try to open a page, get redirected to the 
free-access page.  Click a button on the page.  Page directs to an 
advertisement.  Click on the advertisement, which triggers a 10min 
window of free access *and* opens a new tab/window linked to by the ad.



From carl at carltm.com  Sun Jan 17 12:03:59 2010
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 12:03:59 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Background task accessing web pages
In-Reply-To: <4B523104.3090703@skyefire.org>
References: <4B523104.3090703@skyefire.org>
Message-ID: <d1dea6636677ab685766ed3861a017e0.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

David McMillan wrote:
>    So, my thought:  how hard could it be to start a background task
> (maybe a lynx session) that would periodically open the free-access
> login page and click the correct links?
>
>    The sequence is this:  try to open a page, get redirected to the
> free-access page.  Click a button on the page.  Page directs to an
> advertisement.  Click on the advertisement, which triggers a 10min
> window of free access *and* opens a new tab/window linked to by the ad.

I would use wget for something like this.  Set up a temporary
directory somewhere since it will create a lot of files in a
lot of subdirectories.  It should be rather easy to do if there
are no cookies or sessions.  Check the man page for wget.  Just
reuse the same cookie file if needed.

c




From petertheplumber at att.net  Sun Jan 17 12:38:33 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 12:38:33 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] openSUSE 11.2 and XFCE was Speedy Older Pentium 3 on
 openSUSE 11.1
In-Reply-To: 014801ca608e$d0e39a00$72aace00$@org
Message-ID: <1263749913.4604.75.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

Hello Everyone,
	FWIW I loaded openSUSE 11.2 and XFCE onto an older T30 P4 Thinkpad the
other day. I was waiting for an urgent delivery, and had time to kill. I
accepted all the installation defaults, except for "automatic
configuration". It will suspend and shut down as user. I like the
minimalist interface, and of course it runs like the Roadrunner.
-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber



From carl at carltm.com  Sun Jan 17 13:17:36 2010
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 13:17:36 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] openSUSE 11.2 and XFCE was Speedy Older Pentium 3 on
 openSUSE 11.1
In-Reply-To: <1263749913.4604.75.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
References: <1263749913.4604.75.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <adf8b05a44cd893b6ff0ed3fef70e2ea.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

Peter Bart wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
> 	FWIW I loaded openSUSE 11.2 and XFCE onto an older T30 P4 Thinkpad the
> other day. I was waiting for an urgent delivery, and had time to kill. I
> accepted all the installation defaults, except for "automatic
> configuration". It will suspend and shut down as user. I like the
> minimalist interface, and of course it runs like the Roadrunner.

Cool.  So you're saying that version 11.2 runs even better than
version 11.1 did on your hardware?  Or was if fast before, but now
the shut down and suspend works for regular users?

c




From brian at dangerbacon.com  Sun Jan 17 13:36:41 2010
From: brian at dangerbacon.com (Brian)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 13:36:41 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Background task accessing web pages
In-Reply-To: <6f64e9541001171032q1b838c35k1da4fa0c5cddfcb2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B523104.3090703@skyefire.org>
	<d1dea6636677ab685766ed3861a017e0.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
	<6f64e9541001171032q1b838c35k1da4fa0c5cddfcb2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6f64e9541001171036s3faf2992x268a3ccc5f42107f@mail.gmail.com>

I would bet they use cookies to identify users so I doubt having another
browser getting the free browsing cookie would help much.  I would think the
best automatic way around it would be a small proxy program that would
automatically "click the ad" and store any cookie data that came back.  Or
you could look for flaws like hardcoded expiration times.

On Jan 17, 2010 12:04 PM, "Carl T. Miller" <carl at carltm.com> wrote:

David McMillan wrote: > So, my thought: how hard could it be to start a
background task > (maybe...
I would use wget for something like this.  Set up a temporary
directory somewhere since it will create a lot of files in a
lot of subdirectories.  It should be rather easy to do if there
are no cookies or sessions.  Check the man page for wget.  Just
reuse the same cookie file if needed.

c _______________________________________________ mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org http://mdlug...


From petertheplumber at att.net  Sun Jan 17 13:55:34 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 13:55:34 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] openSUSE 11.2 and XFCE was Speedy Older Pentium 3 on
 openSUSE 11.1
In-Reply-To: <adf8b05a44cd893b6ff0ed3fef70e2ea.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
References: <1263749913.4604.75.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
	<adf8b05a44cd893b6ff0ed3fef70e2ea.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <20100117135534.4a66b29d@Nokia-N800-43-7>

On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 13:17:36 -0500
"Carl T. Miller" <carl at carltm.com> wrote:

> Peter Bart wrote:
> > Hello Everyone,
> > 	FWIW I loaded openSUSE 11.2 and XFCE onto an older T30 P4
> > Thinkpad the other day. I was waiting for an urgent delivery, and
> > had time to kill. I accepted all the installation defaults, except
> > for "automatic configuration". It will suspend and shut down as
> > user. I like the minimalist interface, and of course it runs like
> > the Roadrunner.
> 
> Cool.  So you're saying that version 11.2 runs even better than
> version 11.1 did on your hardware?  Or was if fast before, but now
> the shut down and suspend works for regular users?
> 

I'm saying suspend and shutdown work for me now. I can't speak to
speed, the previous install went on an IBM T22. Which I think is a P1
or 2. This install went on a T30 P4. Also this time I went with the
default partitioning, not partitioning separate partitions myself. So I
can't really speak to any improvement, sorry. I can speak to the fact
it's extremely easy to setup. Of course it's very minimal, but
individual Gnome and KDE packages can be added. Such as Networkmanager,
etc.
-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber
Sent from a mobile Internet Tablet


From gib at juno.com  Sun Jan 17 14:27:43 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 19:27:43 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] Penguicon 2010 Room
Message-ID: <20100117.142743.1123.0@webmail03.vgs.untd.com>

In our officers meeting we decided that we would have a room at Penguicon this year. Any contributions form others will be fine.


____________________________________________________________
Nutrition
Improve your career health. Click now to study nutrition!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=qmeyvQBv1a5G_bkmXhRk0wAAJz07QkQODMrtXujsdlflQzfUAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASQwAAAAA=


From box at blogdetroit.com  Sun Jan 17 14:50:32 2010
From: box at blogdetroit.com (marytee)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 14:50:32 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] MDLUG February Meeting - 2010 Officer Election and Bylaw
	Changes
Message-ID: <4B536A08.2090707@blogdetroit.com>

The next MDLUG general membership meeting will be on Saturday, February 
13, 2010 at 12:30PM at Gaudior Academy 27100 Avondale Avenue Inkster MI 
48141.

Meeting agenda is:

1. Election of 2010 officers:

a. Nominations for 2010 MDLUG officers:
    President - Gibson Nichols
    Vice President  - Garry Stahl
    Michael Persello  - Treasurer
    Secretary - Tony Bemus

  (If you wish to vote by proxy, please notify the Secretary 
(secretary at mdlug.org) via email prior to the meeting, with the following 
information: (a.) Your Name; (b.) MDLUG member who will cast your proxy 
vote;  (c.) Be sure and put 2010 MDLUG Officer proxy vote in the subject 
line.


2. Vote on the following bylaw amendments:

a. Eliminate paper library by amending MDLUG bylaws ( Section V, 
subsection A, part 6) to read: The librarian who collects, maintains, 
and makes available to members freely distributable software.

b. Amend MDLUG bylaws, Section V Subsection A, to add part 7: Meeting 
room logistics facilitator who manages the planning and set-up for the 
MDLUG monthly meeting space.

c. Amend bylaws by adding Section V. Subsection C.: Appointed positions 
may be held by an elected officer provided that he or she agrees to 
assume the duties of the appointed position.



3. Vote on the following motion:  Create Cafe Press Account to sell 
MDLUG merchandise.

------------------------

Following the business meeting we will have the following informational 
sessions:

Tech Tip: "Don't rm, shred instead!" Presented by Mat Enders
Quick tutorial on rsync presented by Mary Tomich
 


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Mon Jan 18 07:58:31 2010
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 07:58:31 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Laptop woes - Knoppix boots but Ubuntu doesn't?
In-Reply-To: <4B50FFAF.50602@gmail.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E47C@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<b02c40e91001151246h6eaa5d93wef7c563605030f5@mail.gmail.com><319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E584@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<4B50FFAF.50602@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E5B0@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Aaron Kulkis

> Ingles, Raymond wrote:
> > It got 40% through one pass last night, forgot to mention before.
I'll let
> it run a full pass, but in my experience with dodgy RAM, if there's a
problem
> it's usually found pretty quickly.

> You mean like at booting up....

 More or less - I mean the memory testing program. In my experience, if
memtest86+ is going to find a RAM error at all, it finds it in less than
a minute. I still try to find time to run at least one full pass, but if
I'm in a hurry I'll let it run for a little while to see if it finds any
gross, obvious RAM problems.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                       (313) 227-2317

 If George Bush thinks "gay marriage" is such a big deal that he
 needs to muck with our Constitution, why didn't he push for it
             to be written into Iraq's new one?

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Mon Jan 18 08:06:21 2010
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 08:06:21 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Laptop woes - Knoppix boots but Ubuntu doesn't?
	(semi-SOLVED)
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E47C@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E47C@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E5B5@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Ingles, Raymond

>  So, something in the hardware has apparently failed in such a way
that
> Ubuntu won't boot but Knoppix will. Very strange. Anyone seen anything
> like that? I'm going to try the Ubuntu "alternate install", which
might
> let me actually see the kernel messages on boot. I'm also going to try
> some other distros, like OpenSUSE or Fedora. It'd be nice to resurrect
> this thing.

 Okay, a Knoppix version 5.x worked; a Knoppix version 6.x didn't.
Fedora 12 booted okay, but didn't see the trackpad, or the PS/2 mouse
I'd plugged in. Ubuntu 9.10 would boot from CD with the options
"acpi=off noapic nolapic", but would not boot from the hard disk with
those options.

 OpenSUSE 11.2 did boot from CD, and will reliably boot in "failsafe"
mode on the laptop. My wife can use it as a remote desktop client and I
was able to do some websurfing and such from it last night. That's all
we wanted from it (or a netbook) anyway, so for now it's good. Of
course, there's at least one other hardware problem now - the battery
seems to have died.

 We're going to give it a week before we declare the problem 'solved
enough'. If it makes it through the next week, I'm going to presume that
it's liable to survive at least another six months or so.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                               (313) 227-2317

 "Transported to a surreal landscape, a young girl kills
 the first woman she meets and then teams up with three
 complete strangers to kill again." - TV listing for the
    Wizard of Oz in the Marin Independent Journal

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 18 13:38:23 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 13:38:23 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Laptop woes - Knoppix boots but Ubuntu doesn't?
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E5B0@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E47C@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<b02c40e91001151246h6eaa5d93wef7c563605030f5@mail.gmail.com><319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E584@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<4B50FFAF.50602@gmail.com>
	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E5B0@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <4B54AA9F.6000404@gmail.com>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>> From: Aaron Kulkis
> 
>> Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>>> It got 40% through one pass last night, forgot to mention before.
> I'll let
>> it run a full pass, but in my experience with dodgy RAM, if there's a
> problem
>> it's usually found pretty quickly.
> 
>> You mean like at booting up....
> 
>  More or less - I mean the memory testing program. In my experience, if
> memtest86+ is going to find a RAM error at all, it finds it in less than
> a minute. I still try to find time to run at least one full pass, but if
> I'm in a hurry I'll let it run for a little while to see if it finds any
> gross, obvious RAM problems.

Not always.  I've had memory errors that didn't show up until
70% of memtest86+'s tests were performed.

If you look at all the ways that memory can be bad, you'll
understand why memtest86+ does more than just 3 or 4 passes
through the memory.  Each test is checking for a different
kind of flaw. (For example, the rotating 1's and rotating
0's tests for flaws in which the same bit from two adjacent
memory locations are short-circuited together.  If you just
write 0xAA and 0x55 to each memory address, you can find out
if adjacent bits in the SAME memory address are shorted
together, but you won't find out if say, bit 3 of memory
locations X and X-1 are shorted together).



> 
>  Sincerely,
> 
>  Ray Ingles                                       (313) 227-2317
> 
>  If George Bush thinks "gay marriage" is such a big deal that he
>  needs to muck with our Constitution, why didn't he push for it
>              to be written into Iraq's new one?
> 
> The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Tue Jan 19 08:31:51 2010
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 08:31:51 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Laptop woes - Knoppix boots but Ubuntu doesn't?
In-Reply-To: <4B54AA9F.6000404@gmail.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E47C@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<b02c40e91001151246h6eaa5d93wef7c563605030f5@mail.gmail.com><319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E584@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<4B50FFAF.50602@gmail.com><319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E5B0@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<4B54AA9F.6000404@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E70C@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Aaron Kulkis

> Ingles, Raymond wrote:
> >  More or less - I mean the memory testing program. In my experience,
if
> > memtest86+ is going to find a RAM error at all, it finds it in less
than
> > a minute.
 
> Not always.  I've had memory errors that didn't show up until
> 70% of memtest86+'s tests were performed.

 After getting burned by some bad RAM a couple years ago, I've been
doing more memtesting. I'll probably run into such a case sooner or
later. Fortunately, the laptop made it through a full pass or two a
couple days ago. Whatever the problem is, I don't think it's RAM.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                         (313) 227-2317

 "If decisive but massive killing actually stopped the other side,
      Israel would be as peaceful as Omaha by now." - elmegil

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.



From robert.citek at gmail.com  Tue Jan 19 10:24:57 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 10:24:57 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Laptop woes - Knoppix boots but Ubuntu doesn't?
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E47C@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E47C@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <4145b6791001190724g4c9445blbe63c2f9c06e0781@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 9:19 AM, Ingles, Raymond
<Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:
> ?I tried Ubuntu desktop live CDs (both 9.04 and 9.10), and it came up
> with the basic splash screen... but attempting to boot the full kernel
> failed - just a blinking cursor in the corner of the screen. On a whim,
> I tried a Knoppix live DVD... and to my surprise I was able to boot to X
> and everything. A bit of tweaking and I was even able to mount the hard
> drive.

Try booting the Ubuntu CD, pressing F4 to bring up the modes, and
selecting Safe Graphics Mode.  Also, press F6 and remove "quiet
splash" from the end of the boot command line.

See this page for more details:

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BootOptions

What make and model of laptop?

Regards,
- Robert


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Tue Jan 19 10:33:36 2010
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 10:33:36 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Laptop woes - Knoppix boots but Ubuntu doesn't?
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791001190724g4c9445blbe63c2f9c06e0781@mail.gmail.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E47C@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<4145b6791001190724g4c9445blbe63c2f9c06e0781@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E76D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Robert Citek

> Try booting the Ubuntu CD, pressing F4 to bring up the modes, and
> selecting Safe Graphics Mode.  Also, press F6 and remove "quiet
> splash" from the end of the boot command line.

 I'll try removing "quiet splash"; I might be able to see where it freezes up.

> What make and model of laptop?

Dell Inspiron 2650 model PP04L - which worked fine with Ubuntu before the Night The Laptop Died.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                    (313) 227-2317

 "Anyone else notice that the U.S. military did a bang-up job
   protecting Iraqi oil wells, but no one told them to make
                hospitals a priority?" - Me


The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.



From robert.citek at gmail.com  Tue Jan 19 14:47:37 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 14:47:37 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Laptop woes - Knoppix boots but Ubuntu doesn't?
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E76D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E47C@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<4145b6791001190724g4c9445blbe63c2f9c06e0781@mail.gmail.com>
	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E76D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <4145b6791001191147i7e68b153o62002a707406b80@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 10:33 AM, Ingles, Raymond
<Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:
> Dell Inspiron 2650 model PP04L - which worked fine with Ubuntu before the Night The Laptop Died.

If Ubuntu installed on it before and now it doesn't finish booting
from the Ubuntu CD, then it sounds like a hardware issue.  Given that
Knoppix boots, my guess would be something with the Ubuntu CD, the
CD-ROM, or the combination.  But it could be anything: flaky RAM,
flaky capacitor, flaky connection, etc.

Two quick tests that can be done with the Ubuntu CD:
- test memory -- fourth option down from the boot menu
- check cd for defects -- third option down from the boot menu

Good luck and let us know what you discover.

Regards,
- Robert


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Tue Jan 19 15:08:58 2010
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 15:08:58 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Laptop woes - Knoppix boots but Ubuntu doesn't?
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791001191147i7e68b153o62002a707406b80@mail.gmail.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E47C@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp><4145b6791001190724g4c9445blbe63c2f9c06e0781@mail.gmail.com><319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E76D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<4145b6791001191147i7e68b153o62002a707406b80@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E037045409BF@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Robert Citek


> If Ubuntu installed on it before and now it doesn't finish booting
> from the Ubuntu CD, then it sounds like a hardware issue.

 Yup:

  http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/2009-August/007213.html

> Two quick tests that can be done with the Ubuntu CD:
> - test memory -- fourth option down from the boot menu

 Done, no problems detected.

> - check cd for defects -- third option down from the boot menu

 Multiple CDs, both 9.04 and 9.10.

 It's a hardware thing. What I don't know (yet) is what kind of hardware
issue it is. I've noted that on OpenSUSE, it logs a few ATA 'device not
ready' errors before it finally boots. So far, this has not impacted
operation, but...

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                           (313) 227-2317

 "When a friend of mine quit his last job, the reason he gave in his
    notice was 'because Dilbert isn't funny anymore.' In his exit
   interview, he was asked what he meant by that." - Stefan Bethke

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.



From rmdion at gmail.com  Tue Jan 19 23:53:40 2010
From: rmdion at gmail.com (Bob Dion)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 22:53:40 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] Laptop woes - Knoppix boots but Ubuntu doesn't?
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E037045409BF@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E47C@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp><4145b6791001190724g4c9445blbe63c2f9c06e0781@mail.gmail.com><319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E76D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<4145b6791001191147i7e68b153o62002a707406b80@mail.gmail.com>
	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E037045409BF@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <4B568C54.7010801@gmail.com>

Anything flaky happen with the bios?

Bob

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>> From: Robert Citek
> 
> 
>> If Ubuntu installed on it before and now it doesn't finish booting
>> from the Ubuntu CD, then it sounds like a hardware issue.
> 
>  Yup:
> 
>   http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/2009-August/007213.html
> 
>> Two quick tests that can be done with the Ubuntu CD:
>> - test memory -- fourth option down from the boot menu
> 
>  Done, no problems detected.
> 
>> - check cd for defects -- third option down from the boot menu
> 
>  Multiple CDs, both 9.04 and 9.10.
> 
>  It's a hardware thing. What I don't know (yet) is what kind of hardware
> issue it is. I've noted that on OpenSUSE, it logs a few ATA 'device not
> ready' errors before it finally boots. So far, this has not impacted
> operation, but...
> 
>  Sincerely,
> 
>  Ray Ingles                                           (313) 227-2317
> 
>  "When a friend of mine quit his last job, the reason he gave in his
>     notice was 'because Dilbert isn't funny anymore.' In his exit
>    interview, he was asked what he meant by that." - Stefan Bethke
> 
> The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 


From z_mikowski at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 20 02:00:11 2010
From: z_mikowski at yahoo.com (Michael Mikowski)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 23:00:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] Laptop woes - Knoppix boots but Ubuntu doesn't?
In-Reply-To: <4B568C54.7010801@gmail.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E47C@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp><4145b6791001190724g4c9445blbe63c2f9c06e0781@mail.gmail.com><319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E76D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<4145b6791001191147i7e68b153o62002a707406b80@mail.gmail.com>
	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E037045409BF@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<4B568C54.7010801@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <571991.11018.qm@web53301.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

>  It's a hardware thing. What I don't know (yet) is what kind of hardware
> issue it is. I've noted that on OpenSUSE, it logs a few ATA 'device not
> ready' errors before it finally boots. So far, this has not impacted
> operation, but...
> 
Reseat the hard drive?



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Wed Jan 20 08:34:01 2010
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 08:34:01 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Laptop woes - Knoppix boots but Ubuntu doesn't?
In-Reply-To: <571991.11018.qm@web53301.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E47C@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp><4145b6791001190724g4c9445blbe63c2f9c06e0781@mail.gmail.com><319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E76D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp><4145b6791001191147i7e68b153o62002a707406b80@mail.gmail.com><319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E037045409BF@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp><4B568C54.7010801@gmail.com>
	<571991.11018.qm@web53301.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E03704540A34@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Michael Mikowski

> >  It's a hardware thing. What I don't know (yet) is what kind of
hardware
> > issue it is. I've noted that on OpenSUSE, it logs a few ATA 'device
not
> > ready' errors before it finally boots. So far, this has not impacted
> > operation, but...
> >
> Reseat the hard drive?

 Two different hard drives (a 30GB and a 40GB), which both work when
hooked up via a USB drive adapter.

 I think it may be the ATA *controller* that's flaked out somewhat.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                    (313) 227-2317

 "Improvements succeeded each other so rapidly, that machines
 which had never been finished were abandoned in the hands of
 their makers, because new improvements had superceded their
             utility." - Charles Babbage, 1832

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.



From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 20 08:57:55 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 05:57:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] Open Suse Boxed ver. ???
Message-ID: <24949.84624.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

What is up with the boxed version of open suse 11.2? We normally get the version right away.


David C. Lane


      

From micorral at comcast.net  Wed Jan 20 12:00:06 2010
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 17:00:06 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [mdlug] [Hardware] Replacing an LCD backlight
In-Reply-To: <1813499031.11886631264006737971.JavaMail.root@sz0169a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1606166958.11887161264006806237.JavaMail.root@sz0169a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

Not Linux-related, just wondering if anyone here has ever replaced the
backlight tube/inverter on an LCD. For several months my Samsung SyncMaster
930B would be dim and flicker for several minutes when it gets powered on,
then it would come up to full brightness. But this morning it flickered
briefly then went black. I've checked the video and power cables, they're fine.

I looked up on the web to find that LCD backlights have a lifetime of about
40k hours, which is about 55 months. I've had mine for 56 months, and the 3-year
warranty has long since expired. I'm curious if it would cost more to have the
backlight replaced than just getting a new 19" (or larger) LCD. If anyone here
has any experience with this I'd appreciate any info you have. Thanks.

Michael


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Jan 20 17:45:40 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 17:45:40 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] [Hardware] Replacing an LCD backlight
In-Reply-To: <1606166958.11887161264006806237.JavaMail.root@sz0169a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
References: <1813499031.11886631264006737971.JavaMail.root@sz0169a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<1606166958.11887161264006806237.JavaMail.root@sz0169a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <b02c40e91001201445o4cc94867i8c3ee0fbea38ad3e@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net> wrote:
> Not Linux-related, just wondering if anyone here has ever replaced the
> backlight tube/inverter on an LCD. For several months my Samsung SyncMaster
> 930B would be dim and flicker for several minutes when it gets powered on,
> then it would come up to full brightness. But this morning it flickered
> briefly then went black. I've checked the video and power cables, they're fine.
>
> I looked up on the web to find that LCD backlights have a lifetime of about
> 40k hours, which is about 55 months. I've had mine for 56 months, and the 3-year
> warranty has long since expired. I'm curious if it would cost more to have the
> backlight replaced than just getting a new 19" (or larger) LCD. If anyone here
> has any experience with this I'd appreciate any info you have. Thanks.
>

That is a large amount of time.  Is your LCD on continuously?

It's possible that the inverter failed, not the bulb.


From petertheplumber at att.net  Wed Jan 20 18:30:41 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 18:30:41 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] [MOSG] Fw:  [Hardware] Replacing an LCD backlight
In-Reply-To: <4B577131.8020706@comcast.net>
References: <20100120155343.1202af87@Nokia-N800-43-7>
	<4B577131.8020706@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1264030241.4604.184.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

On Wed, 2010-01-20 at 16:10 -0500, Richard Zimmerman wrote:
> Yes and no... On the Thinkpad the backlight did go but, but turned out 
> to be a loose connection.
> 
> Richard
> 
> / On a sidebar the Thinkpad is still alive running a dual boot Vector 
> Linux 6.0 Standard Gold and Windows 7!
> // Has the famous memory slot problem again too
> /// Running on a 1g ram stick
> 
> 
> 
> On 1/20/2010 3:53 PM, Peter Bart wrote:
> >
> > Begin forwarded message:
> >
> > Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 17:00:06 +0000 (UTC)
> > From: Michael Corral<micorral at comcast.net>
> > To: mdlug at mdlug.org
> > Subject: [mdlug] [Hardware] Replacing an LCD backlight
> >
> >
> > Not Linux-related, just wondering if anyone here has ever replaced the
> > backlight tube/inverter on an LCD. For several months my Samsung
> > SyncMaster 930B would be dim and flicker for several minutes when it
> > gets powered on, then it would come up to full brightness. But this
> > morning it flickered briefly then went black. I've checked the video
> > and power cables, they're fine.
> >
> > I looked up on the web to find that LCD backlights have a lifetime of
> > about 40k hours, which is about 55 months. I've had mine for 56 months,
> > and the 3-year warranty has long since expired. I'm curious if it would
> > cost more to have the backlight replaced than just getting a new
> > 19" (or larger) LCD. If anyone here has any experience with this I'd
> > appreciate any info you have. Thanks.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > Richard,
> >      Didn't you do something like this with one of those Thinkpads?
> >    
> 

-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber



From Stan at mcomputersolutions.com  Wed Jan 20 20:48:11 2010
From: Stan at mcomputersolutions.com (Stan Green)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 20:48:11 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Looking for GIMP expert to do a presentation
Message-ID: <201001202048.12066.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>

There is an Open Source (i.e. more than just Linux) group starting up at Walsh 
College that is looking for people to present. One area I think they would be 
interested in is graphics editing. I can get around in GIMP, but am by no means 
an expert.

So, are there any GIMP experts that would have a Sat AM free in Feb or Mar to do 
this? 

Thanks,
Stan


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 20 23:25:09 2010
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 23:25:09 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] [Hardware] Replacing an LCD backlight
In-Reply-To: <1606166958.11887161264006806237.JavaMail.root@sz0169a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
References: <1813499031.11886631264006737971.JavaMail.root@sz0169a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<1606166958.11887161264006806237.JavaMail.root@sz0169a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <b67fb0381001202025k19f58e16i11ff41aa370f8e6e@mail.gmail.com>

--- Michael Corral wrote:

> Not Linux-related, just wondering if anyone here has ever replaced the
> backlight tube/inverter on an LCD. For several months my Samsung SyncMaster
> 930B would be dim and flicker for several minutes when it gets powered on,
> then it would come up to full brightness. But this morning it flickered
> briefly then went black. I've checked the video and power cables, they're fine.

As someone that has actually repaired monitors for a living, I would
say that you are probably better off replacing the monitor at this
point--both because of the long-term use that the old one has seen and
because a LOT of improvements have been made to LCD monitors in the
last 4 years.  In fact, I JUST bought my very first LCD monitor--with
an LED backlight (I held off partly because I am no fan of CCFL
backlights).  Though I still think that CRTs have an image advantage
over LCDs (more and truer colors, for example), I must say that I
really like my AOC 22" monitor overall and I'm happy that I got it.

~~ Michael Rudas
    My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
    My Linux/FOSS Protopage links:
<http://www.protopage.com/mprudas#Main/Linux_FOSS>


From micorral at comcast.net  Thu Jan 21 00:16:52 2010
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 00:16:52 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] [Hardware] Replacing an LCD backlight
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0381001202025k19f58e16i11ff41aa370f8e6e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1813499031.11886631264006737971.JavaMail.root@sz0169a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<1606166958.11887161264006806237.JavaMail.root@sz0169a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<b67fb0381001202025k19f58e16i11ff41aa370f8e6e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.1001210007350.3478@banana.sluggo.net>

2010-01-20, Monsieur Michael Rudas a ecrit:
> As someone that has actually repaired monitors for a living, I would
> say that you are probably better off replacing the monitor at this
> point--both because of the long-term use that the old one has seen and
> because a LOT of improvements have been made to LCD monitors in the
> last 4 years.

Yeah, I figured as much, so I ended up buying a 23" Acer LCD monitor
at Microcenter tonight for $170, which is about half the price that I
paid for the 19" Samsung LCD 5 years ago. I like it.

Michael


From tesral at wowway.com  Thu Jan 21 09:00:05 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 09:00:05 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] [Hardware] Replacing an LCD backlight
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0381001202025k19f58e16i11ff41aa370f8e6e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1813499031.11886631264006737971.JavaMail.root@sz0169a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>	<1606166958.11887161264006806237.JavaMail.root@sz0169a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<b67fb0381001202025k19f58e16i11ff41aa370f8e6e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B585DE5.9090508@wowway.com>

Michael Rudas wrote:
> As someone that has actually repaired monitors for a living, I would
> say that you are probably better off replacing the monitor at this
> point--both because of the long-term use that the old one has seen and
> because a LOT of improvements have been made to LCD monitors in the
> last 4 years.  In fact, I JUST bought my very first LCD monitor--with
> an LED backlight (I held off partly because I am no fan of CCFL
> backlights).  Though I still think that CRTs have an image advantage
> over LCDs (more and truer colors, for example), I must say that I
> really like my AOC 22" monitor overall and I'm happy that I got it.
>   
I don't know about the color thing.  I have excellent color perception
(Yes it was tested)  They look good to me.  What I do notice with some
is that the angle you view it at changes your perception of what is on
the screen.  My Thinkpad T-61 is bad for that.  The Acer 23" is not. 
Secondly CRTs I noticed vary from set to set on how things looked.  So
they were not that true.  NTSC  Never Twice Same Color.

That said, I'll second the recommendation.  I paid $150 for a 23 inch 
1920x1080 monitor that I have no complaints about.  It's the second LCD
I have had and blows the previous one (which was good) out of the
water.  The things have simply gotten too inexpensive to fix.  Outside
of a laptop, in which the computer is part of the deal I don't think I
would.  Stand alone monitors are dirt cheap for good quality.  Inside of
a laptop is to damn hot to work anyway.


-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? -Mohandas K. Gandhi  
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From tesral at wowway.com  Thu Jan 21 09:01:08 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 09:01:08 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] [Hardware] Replacing an LCD backlight
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.00.1001210007350.3478@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <1813499031.11886631264006737971.JavaMail.root@sz0169a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>	<1606166958.11887161264006806237.JavaMail.root@sz0169a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>	<b67fb0381001202025k19f58e16i11ff41aa370f8e6e@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1001210007350.3478@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <4B585E24.90801@wowway.com>

Michael Corral wrote:
> Yeah, I figured as much, so I ended up buying a 23" Acer LCD monitor
> at Microcenter tonight for $170, which is about half the price that I
> paid for the 19" Samsung LCD 5 years ago. I like it.
>   

Looks like you have the same model I do.  Sweet monitor.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? -Mohandas K. Gandhi  
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From robert.citek at gmail.com  Thu Jan 21 09:01:26 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 09:01:26 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] sharing a remote desktop between two remote users
Message-ID: <4145b6791001210601v656fc265i62a46274743f3ab7@mail.gmail.com>

How can one share a desktop between two remote users?

I have a headless machine which I routinely ssh into.  What I would
like to do is "remote desktop" into the headless machine and then
share that remote desktop with another remote user.  Is this possible
and, if so, what keywords should I be googling for?  Hits for "sharing
remote desktop" assume that you have a console desktop, which I do
not.

Thanks in advance for any pointers.

Regards,
- Robert


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 21 09:38:01 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 06:38:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] sharing a remote desktop between two remote users
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791001210601v656fc265i62a46274743f3ab7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4145b6791001210601v656fc265i62a46274743f3ab7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <207764.79875.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

There are also KVM switches, it is a simple solution.

David C. Lane 





________________________________
From: Robert Citek <robert.citek at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Thu, January 21, 2010 9:01:26 AM
Subject: [mdlug] sharing a remote desktop between two remote users

How can one share a desktop between two remote users?

I have a headless machine which I routinely ssh into.? What I would
like to do is "remote desktop" into the headless machine and then
share that remote desktop with another remote user.? Is this possible
and, if so, what keywords should I be googling for?? Hits for "sharing
remote desktop" assume that you have a console desktop, which I do
not.

Thanks in advance for any pointers.

Regards,
- Robert
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      

From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Thu Jan 21 10:21:20 2010
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 10:21:20 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] sharing a remote desktop between two remote users
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791001210601v656fc265i62a46274743f3ab7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4145b6791001210601v656fc265i62a46274743f3ab7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46901ED025D54@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

Vnc allows you to remote in and share out what you're doing.

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Robert Citek
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 9:01 AM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: [mdlug] sharing a remote desktop between two remote users

How can one share a desktop between two remote users?

I have a headless machine which I routinely ssh into.  What I would
like to do is "remote desktop" into the headless machine and then
share that remote desktop with another remote user.  Is this possible
and, if so, what keywords should I be googling for?  Hits for "sharing
remote desktop" assume that you have a console desktop, which I do
not.

Thanks in advance for any pointers.

Regards,
- Robert
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Thu Jan 21 11:06:53 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 11:06:53 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] sharing a remote desktop between two remote users
In-Reply-To: <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46901ED025D54@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
References: <4145b6791001210601v656fc265i62a46274743f3ab7@mail.gmail.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46901ED025D54@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
Message-ID: <4145b6791001210806p7cd7c6eaod902f3c79db836d@mail.gmail.com>

Any pointers to references which explain how to do this?

For example, this link suggests it can be done but doesn't explain how:

http://www.realvnc.com/vnc/how.html

Regards,
- Robert

On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 10:21 AM, Wojtak, Greg
<GregWojtak at quickenloans.com> wrote:
> Vnc allows you to remote in and share out what you're doing.


From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Thu Jan 21 11:23:47 2010
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 11:23:47 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] sharing a remote desktop between two remote users
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791001210806p7cd7c6eaod902f3c79db836d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4145b6791001210601v656fc265i62a46274743f3ab7@mail.gmail.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46901ED025D54@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4145b6791001210806p7cd7c6eaod902f3c79db836d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46901ED025FC3@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

I haven't done it in years, but I believe you start your remote session into the server normally.  IIRC, you need to set a password on the session which you will share with the person you want to shadow you.  Your shadow will then need to connect to the same server and desktop and use the password you've provided.

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Robert Citek
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 11:07 AM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] sharing a remote desktop between two remote users

Any pointers to references which explain how to do this?

For example, this link suggests it can be done but doesn't explain how:

http://www.realvnc.com/vnc/how.html

Regards,
- Robert

On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 10:21 AM, Wojtak, Greg
<GregWojtak at quickenloans.com> wrote:
> Vnc allows you to remote in and share out what you're doing.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Thu Jan 21 11:45:18 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 11:45:18 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] sharing a remote desktop between two remote users
In-Reply-To: <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46901ED025FC3@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
References: <4145b6791001210601v656fc265i62a46274743f3ab7@mail.gmail.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46901ED025D54@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4145b6791001210806p7cd7c6eaod902f3c79db836d@mail.gmail.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46901ED025FC3@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
Message-ID: <4145b6791001210845g11209296x3286b563b3c87327@mail.gmail.com>

The headless machine is running Ubuntu 9.04 x86_64 Server and local is
running Ubuntu 8.04 i386.

This is what I've tried so far.

On the headless machine:
$ sudo apt-get install tightvncserver
$ tightvncserver
create password

On the local machine:
Applications > Internet > Terminal Server Client
specified computer:port, VNC, and username
on clicking Connect, I entered the password I created for the VNC session

A window then appeared showing my remote desktop (not perfectly, but
good enough for now.)

Opened gedit on the remote desktop with Applications > Accessories >
Text Editor.  However, key entry is completely foobared.  Typing "abc"
produces "asd" and neither the backspace nor escape key works.  And
logging out doesn't quite complete -- there's just a blank desktop.

Regards,
- Robert

On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 11:23 AM, Wojtak, Greg
<GregWojtak at quickenloans.com> wrote:
> I haven't done it in years, but I believe you start your remote session into the server normally. ?IIRC, you need to set a password on the session which you will share with the person you want to shadow you. ?Your shadow will then need to connect to the same server and desktop and use the password you've provided.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Robert Citek
> Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 11:07 AM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] sharing a remote desktop between two remote users
>
> Any pointers to references which explain how to do this?
>
> For example, this link suggests it can be done but doesn't explain how:
>
> http://www.realvnc.com/vnc/how.html
>
> Regards,
> - Robert
>
> On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 10:21 AM, Wojtak, Greg
> <GregWojtak at quickenloans.com> wrote:
>> Vnc allows you to remote in and share out what you're doing.
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From ldaphelp at thuemmel.com  Thu Jan 21 15:08:43 2010
From: ldaphelp at thuemmel.com (Mark Thuemmel)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 15:08:43 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] sharing a remote desktop between two remote users
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791001210845g11209296x3286b563b3c87327@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4145b6791001210601v656fc265i62a46274743f3ab7@mail.gmail.com>	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46901ED025D54@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>	<4145b6791001210806p7cd7c6eaod902f3c79db836d@mail.gmail.com>	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46901ED025FC3@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4145b6791001210845g11209296x3286b563b3c87327@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B58B44B.2050808@thuemmel.com>

How about reset keyboard setting to default in gnome
(system-preferences-keyboard) and then restart vnc?

Robert Citek wrote:
> The headless machine is running Ubuntu 9.04 x86_64 Server and local is
> running Ubuntu 8.04 i386.
> 
> This is what I've tried so far.
> 
> On the headless machine:
> $ sudo apt-get install tightvncserver
> $ tightvncserver
> create password
> 
> On the local machine:
> Applications > Internet > Terminal Server Client
> specified computer:port, VNC, and username
> on clicking Connect, I entered the password I created for the VNC session
> 
> A window then appeared showing my remote desktop (not perfectly, but
> good enough for now.)
> 
> Opened gedit on the remote desktop with Applications > Accessories >
> Text Editor.  However, key entry is completely foobared.  Typing "abc"
> produces "asd" and neither the backspace nor escape key works.  And
> logging out doesn't quite complete -- there's just a blank desktop.
> 
> Regards,


From ldaphelp at thuemmel.com  Thu Jan 21 15:14:07 2010
From: ldaphelp at thuemmel.com (Mark Thuemmel)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 15:14:07 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] sharing a remote desktop between two remote users
In-Reply-To: <4B58B44B.2050808@thuemmel.com>
References: <4145b6791001210601v656fc265i62a46274743f3ab7@mail.gmail.com>	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46901ED025D54@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>	<4145b6791001210806p7cd7c6eaod902f3c79db836d@mail.gmail.com>	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46901ED025FC3@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>	<4145b6791001210845g11209296x3286b563b3c87327@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B58B44B.2050808@thuemmel.com>
Message-ID: <4B58B58F.7090601@thuemmel.com>

or maybe this:

Perhaps you can try this:

1. edit your $HOME/.vnc/xstartup
2. put the line "export XKL_XMODMAP_DISABLE=1" before your gnome-session.
3. restart vncserver.

credit to this link.
http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=190865#c7


Mark Thuemmel wrote:
> How about reset keyboard setting to default in gnome
> (system-preferences-keyboard) and then restart vnc?
> 
> Robert Citek wrote:
>> The headless machine is running Ubuntu 9.04 x86_64 Server and local is
>> running Ubuntu 8.04 i386.
>>
>> This is what I've tried so far.
>>
>> On the headless machine:
>> $ sudo apt-get install tightvncserver
>> $ tightvncserver
>> create password
>>
>> On the local machine:
>> Applications > Internet > Terminal Server Client
>> specified computer:port, VNC, and username
>> on clicking Connect, I entered the password I created for the VNC session
>>
>> A window then appeared showing my remote desktop (not perfectly, but
>> good enough for now.)
>>
>> Opened gedit on the remote desktop with Applications > Accessories >
>> Text Editor.  However, key entry is completely foobared.  Typing "abc"
>> produces "asd" and neither the backspace nor escape key works.  And
>> logging out doesn't quite complete -- there's just a blank desktop.
>>
>> Regards,
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 



From robert.citek at gmail.com  Thu Jan 21 16:10:55 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 16:10:55 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] sharing a remote desktop between two remote users
In-Reply-To: <4B58B58F.7090601@thuemmel.com>
References: <4145b6791001210601v656fc265i62a46274743f3ab7@mail.gmail.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46901ED025D54@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4145b6791001210806p7cd7c6eaod902f3c79db836d@mail.gmail.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46901ED025FC3@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4145b6791001210845g11209296x3286b563b3c87327@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B58B44B.2050808@thuemmel.com> <4B58B58F.7090601@thuemmel.com>
Message-ID: <4145b6791001211310x5e85a028g25d691945a6d7e0e@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks.  That worked well for the keyboard and seemed to make the
desktop look more like a standard Gnome desktop.

There are still a few more minor issues:

- logging out - doesn't seem to finish the sequence but rather hangs
at a blank desktop.  Workaround is to kill the vnc process:

$ cat .vnc/Ubuntu904-64bit\:1.pid | xargs kill

- resizing desktop window - it's just a few pixels too small.  I can
resize it smaller but not larger.  Workaround: scroll up/down and
left/right.

- maximizing desktop window - immediately closes the client connection
with an error.  Workaround: reconnect.

Those are minor annoyances which I can live with and address later.

The question is, how to share the desktop with another remote user?  I
tried connecting again using tsclient from the same machine, but that
didn't work.  It appears as though you can have only one tsclient
connection at a time to a remote server.  Will try from another
machine.

Regards,
- Robert

On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Mark Thuemmel <ldaphelp at thuemmel.com> wrote:
> or maybe this:
>
> Perhaps you can try this:
>
> 1. edit your $HOME/.vnc/xstartup
> 2. put the line "export XKL_XMODMAP_DISABLE=1" before your gnome-session.
> 3. restart vncserver.
>
> credit to this link.
> http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=190865#c7
>
>
> Mark Thuemmel wrote:
>> How about reset keyboard setting to default in gnome
>> (system-preferences-keyboard) and then restart vnc?
>>
>> Robert Citek wrote:
>>> The headless machine is running Ubuntu 9.04 x86_64 Server and local is
>>> running Ubuntu 8.04 i386.
>>>
>>> This is what I've tried so far.
>>>
>>> On the headless machine:
>>> $ sudo apt-get install tightvncserver
>>> $ tightvncserver
>>> create password
>>>
>>> On the local machine:
>>> Applications > Internet > Terminal Server Client
>>> specified computer:port, VNC, and username
>>> on clicking Connect, I entered the password I created for the VNC session
>>>
>>> A window then appeared showing my remote desktop (not perfectly, but
>>> good enough for now.)
>>>
>>> Opened gedit on the remote desktop with Applications > Accessories >
>>> Text Editor. ?However, key entry is completely foobared. ?Typing "abc"
>>> produces "asd" and neither the backspace nor escape key works. ?And
>>> logging out doesn't quite complete -- there's just a blank desktop.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>> _______________________________________________
>> mdlug mailing list
>> mdlug at mdlug.org
>> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Thu Jan 21 16:23:26 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 16:23:26 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] sharing a remote desktop between two remote users
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791001211310x5e85a028g25d691945a6d7e0e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4145b6791001210601v656fc265i62a46274743f3ab7@mail.gmail.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46901ED025D54@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4145b6791001210806p7cd7c6eaod902f3c79db836d@mail.gmail.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46901ED025FC3@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4145b6791001210845g11209296x3286b563b3c87327@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B58B44B.2050808@thuemmel.com> <4B58B58F.7090601@thuemmel.com>
	<4145b6791001211310x5e85a028g25d691945a6d7e0e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4145b6791001211323v42fab0f5ya069b05eee29db67@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Robert Citek <robert.citek at gmail.com> wrote:
> The question is, how to share the desktop with another remote user? ?I
> tried connecting again using tsclient from the same machine, but that
> didn't work. ?It appears as though you can have only one tsclient
> connection at a time to a remote server. ?Will try from another
> machine.

Discovered that I need to start the server in alwaysshared mode:

$ vncserver -alwaysshared

That worked ... at least good enough for now.

Regards,
- Robert


From tony at bemushosting.com  Thu Jan 21 18:04:29 2010
From: tony at bemushosting.com (Tony Bemus)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:04:29 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] sharing a remote desktop between two remote users
Message-ID: <0MIuiv-1NWA8D2Oyn-002Uc1@mrelay.perfora.net>

You could forward x through ssh then share your desktop (either your computer or the server) via VLC.

Tony Bemus
Sent from my smartphone

-----Original Message-----
From: David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 9:38 AM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: Re: [mdlug] sharing a remote desktop between two remote users

There are also KVM switches, it is a simple solution.

David C. Lane 





________________________________
From: Robert Citek <robert.citek at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Thu, January 21, 2010 9:01:26 AM
Subject: [mdlug] sharing a remote desktop between two remote users

How can one share a desktop between two remote users?

I have a headless machine which I routinely ssh into.? What I would
like to do is "remote desktop" into the headless machine and then
share that remote desktop with another remote user.? Is this possible
and, if so, what keywords should I be googling for?? Hits for "sharing
remote desktop" assume that you have a console desktop, which I do
not.

Thanks in advance for any pointers.

Regards,
- Robert
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 22 01:13:38 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 01:13:38 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Sumsing Turbo 3000 Cellphone
Message-ID: <4B594212.3050902@gmail.com>

Who needs an iPhone when you can have this?


<http://www.flixxy.com/sumsing-turbo-3000-cellphone.htm?r=0>


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Fri Jan 22 08:27:51 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 08:27:51 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] sharing a remote desktop between two remote users
In-Reply-To: <0MIuiv-1NWA8D2Oyn-002Uc1@mrelay.perfora.net>
References: <0MIuiv-1NWA8D2Oyn-002Uc1@mrelay.perfora.net>
Message-ID: <4145b6791001220527y7d5ccc83l3544ecf150ff44c6@mail.gmail.com>

I found this link:

http://www.nerdlogger.com/2008/01/stream-your-linuxwindowsmac-desktop-as.html

Is this what you mean?

Regards,
- Robert

On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 6:04 PM, Tony Bemus <tony at bemushosting.com> wrote:
> You could forward x through ssh then share your desktop (either your computer or the server) via VLC.


From petertheplumber at att.net  Fri Jan 22 09:13:31 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 09:13:31 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Sumsing Turbo 3000 Cellphone
In-Reply-To: <4B594212.3050902@gmail.com>
References: <4B594212.3050902@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100122091331.0cf33707@Nokia-N800-43-7>

On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 01:13:38 -0500
Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Who needs an iPhone when you can have this?
> 
> 
> <http://www.flixxy.com/sumsing-turbo-3000-cellphone.htm?r=0>

Haha, too funny!! I'm going to have to save that.

-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber
Sent from a mobile Internet Tablet


From fativi at gmail.com  Fri Jan 22 09:20:28 2010
From: fativi at gmail.com (Brian)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 09:20:28 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] sharing a remote desktop between two remote users
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791001220527y7d5ccc83l3544ecf150ff44c6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <0MIuiv-1NWA8D2Oyn-002Uc1@mrelay.perfora.net>
	<4145b6791001220527y7d5ccc83l3544ecf150ff44c6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6f64e9541001220620g2535fbfbmcc3409bf50d34670@mail.gmail.com>

I think Tony is referring to running "ssh -X <server>" so that ssh
will route X traffic you start from the server back to your local
machine.  This is a great trick for one off programs but I'd stick
with VNC for a full desktop since with a generic ssh X tunnel you
won't get the compression and optimizations that you'd get with VNC.

Neat link :)

On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 8:27 AM, Robert Citek <robert.citek at gmail.com> wrote:
> I found this link:
>
> http://www.nerdlogger.com/2008/01/stream-your-linuxwindowsmac-desktop-as.html
>
> Is this what you mean?
>
> Regards,
> - Robert
>
> On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 6:04 PM, Tony Bemus <tony at bemushosting.com> wrote:
>> You could forward x through ssh then share your desktop (either your computer or the server) via VLC.
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From tesral at wowway.com  Fri Jan 22 10:40:16 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 10:40:16 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Sumsing Turbo 3000 Cellphone
In-Reply-To: <4B594212.3050902@gmail.com>
References: <4B594212.3050902@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B59C6E0.2020600@wowway.com>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> Who needs an iPhone when you can have this?
>   

I'll take two.



-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? -Mohandas K. Gandhi  
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Fri Jan 22 15:26:25 2010
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 15:26:25 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Unencrypted remote X on OpenSuse 11.2?
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E03704540DDF@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>


 Now that the laptop is working (and the battery spontaneously works
again, interestingly; maybe 'cause I'm not explicitly turning ACPI off?)
I've been using it a little. I'd like to remotely display some X apps
from my desktop in the basement, over wifi, to the laptop. I know I can
"ssh -X yadda yadda", and that works... but it's a bit slow and laggy.

 Instead, I experimented with the old "xhost +<hostname>" and setting
the DISPLAY variable... but I get "Can't open display" errors, even
though things are definitely set up correctly. After some Googling, I
tried setting the X server option "DisallowTCP" to "false", and
rebooting... but no dice. I saw references in my Googles that recent X
servers have removed the ability to listen via TCP at the source level?
Is it really just *not possible* anymore to do straightforward remote X?

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                        (313) 227-2317

  "Rune Slot is the first culturally accurate depiction of what
   might have happened if one of the Vikings' slot machines had
     gone nuts, walked off with their Sorrowbringer, and then
 started murdering them. It's also got the best payouts in town!
       Though it might eat your soul." - Old Man Murray

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.



From danno at umich.edu  Fri Jan 22 17:35:31 2010
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 17:35:31 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Unencrypted remote X on OpenSuse 11.2?
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E03704540DDF@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E03704540DDF@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <20100122223531.GA50063@maniac.deathstar.org>

On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 03:26:25PM -0500, Ingles, Raymond wrote:
> from my desktop in the basement, over wifi, to the laptop. I know I can
> "ssh -X yadda yadda", and that works... but it's a bit slow and laggy.

my experience suggests that ssh encryption is not your problem, 
rather your wifi.  Try it over a hardwired connection.

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From davidl at lmert.com  Fri Jan 22 23:32:46 2010
From: davidl at lmert.com (David Lee Lambert)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 23:32:46 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] sharing a remote desktop between two remote users
In-Reply-To: <6f64e9541001220620g2535fbfbmcc3409bf50d34670@mail.gmail.com>
References: <0MIuiv-1NWA8D2Oyn-002Uc1@mrelay.perfora.net>
	<4145b6791001220527y7d5ccc83l3544ecf150ff44c6@mail.gmail.com>
	<6f64e9541001220620g2535fbfbmcc3409bf50d34670@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c5df8cf61001222032h78317808n21a1d17767925b72@mail.gmail.com>

It's possible to write an X windows program to talk to multiple servers at
once,  so that people can interact with it from multiple displays.  Emacs is
the only one I'm familiar with that actually takes advantage of that
feature.

VNC is great for actually sharing a desktop with someone,  but if a single
person is interacting with a graphical program on a remote server,
sometimes X over ssh (or X over ssh without compression, or X over straight
TCP;  gnome still has an XDMCP server) gives a better experience.  For one
thing,  you don't get the window-in-a-window effect.



--
DLL


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sat Jan 23 21:11:49 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 21:11:49 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] GNU sed weirdness
Message-ID: <b02c40e91001231811u11bbcc2ay598eb5b3ab769fdc@mail.gmail.com>

With GNU sed on Ubuntu 8.04 I'm wrote a simple script that takes in a
Windows full-path file listing and changes it to a Windows 7-zip
compression batch file.  It uses back references get the parent
directory path and filename.  There are several files that have the
same name but with different extensions and I just want to put all the
ones that match by filename into the same 7z file.  I wanted to use
variables for the 7-zip path, target directory, and compression
options.  Because of spaces in the directory and file names I need to
embed quotes.  To keep the sed command from getting really ugly I
split it up into a single-quoted search, double-quoted (because of
variable expansions) replacement for the variables followed by
single-quoted replacement for the back references.  The back
references \1 holds the directory path and \2 holds the filename
without extension.  What I though was the correct form looks like
this:

sed -n 's/\(.*\)\\\(.*\)\.idx/'"\"$compress_exe\" $compress_opts
\"$target_dir\\"'\2'".$compress_ext"'\" \"\1\\2.*\"/p' $1

Broken up:
sed -n 's/\(.*\)\\\(.*\)\.idx/'
"\"$compress_exe\" $compress_opts \"$target_dir\\"
'\2'
".$compress_ext"
'\" \"\1\\2.*\"/p' $1

Basic input is:
compress_exe='c:\\Program Files\\7-Zip\\7z.exe'
compress_ext='7z'
compress_opts='a -mx=7 -ms=on -wD:\\'
target_dir='D:\\archive'

filelist.txt ($1):
D:\data\20100123.idx (the directory contains several other files with
the same path/name but with different extensions)
...

Desired output is:
"c:\Program Files\7-Zip\7z.exe" a -mx=7 -ms=on -wD:\
"D:\archive\20100123.7z" "D:\data\20100123.*"

Not too complicated but it doesn't work.  I tried different quotes and
escape orders but always end up with:
"c:\Program Files\7-Zip\7z.exe" a -mx=7 -ms=on -wD:\ "D:\archive\2.7z"
"D:\data\20100123.*"

For some reason it seems that sed gets confused by the double-quoted
escaped backslash and the following single-quoted back reference \2.
Either it prints nothing or uses the back reference index literally.
The only way I could get it to work was to move the backslash into the
variable instead:

target_dir='D:\\archive\\'

sed -n 's/\(.*\)\\\(.*\)\.idx/'"\"$compress_exe\" $compress_opts
\"$target_dir"'\2'".$compress_ext"'\" \"\1\2.*\"/p' $1

This worked.  Is there something fundamental I'm overlooking with the
earlier version or is it a bug?


From devanhoe at gmail.com  Sat Jan 23 21:16:13 2010
From: devanhoe at gmail.com (Dennis VanHoey)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 21:16:13 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] GNU sed weirdness
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e91001231811u11bbcc2ay598eb5b3ab769fdc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e91001231811u11bbcc2ay598eb5b3ab769fdc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <615fa0ed1001231816p4f64215s31f01d3d1535151d@mail.gmail.com>

have you tried using the forward slash instead? (not that I have recently
used sed) but normally gnu tools will accept a forward slash and translate
it internally.

On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 9:11 PM, Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com> wrote:

> With GNU sed on Ubuntu 8.04 I'm wrote a simple script that takes in a
> Windows full-path file listing and changes it to a Windows 7-zip
> compression batch file.  It uses back references get the parent
> directory path and filename.  There are several files that have the
> same name but with different extensions and I just want to put all the
> ones that match by filename into the same 7z file.  I wanted to use
> variables for the 7-zip path, target directory, and compression
> options.  Because of spaces in the directory and file names I need to
> embed quotes.  To keep the sed command from getting really ugly I
> split it up into a single-quoted search, double-quoted (because of
> variable expansions) replacement for the variables followed by
> single-quoted replacement for the back references.  The back
> references \1 holds the directory path and \2 holds the filename
> without extension.  What I though was the correct form looks like
> this:
>
> sed -n 's/\(.*\)\\\(.*\)\.idx/'"\"$compress_exe\" $compress_opts
> \"$target_dir\\"'\2'".$compress_ext"'\" \"\1\\2.*\"/p' $1
>
> Broken up:
> sed -n 's/\(.*\)\\\(.*\)\.idx/'
> "\"$compress_exe\" $compress_opts \"$target_dir\\"
> '\2'
> ".$compress_ext"
> '\" \"\1\\2.*\"/p' $1
>
> Basic input is:
> compress_exe='c:\\Program Files\\7-Zip\\7z.exe'
> compress_ext='7z'
> compress_opts='a -mx=7 -ms=on -wD:\\'
> target_dir='D:\\archive'
>
> filelist.txt ($1):
> D:\data\20100123.idx (the directory contains several other files with
> the same path/name but with different extensions)
> ...
>
> Desired output is:
> "c:\Program Files\7-Zip\7z.exe" a -mx=7 -ms=on -wD:\
> "D:\archive\20100123.7z" "D:\data\20100123.*"
>
> Not too complicated but it doesn't work.  I tried different quotes and
> escape orders but always end up with:
> "c:\Program Files\7-Zip\7z.exe" a -mx=7 -ms=on -wD:\ "D:\archive\2.7z"
> "D:\data\20100123.*"
>
> For some reason it seems that sed gets confused by the double-quoted
> escaped backslash and the following single-quoted back reference \2.
> Either it prints nothing or uses the back reference index literally.
> The only way I could get it to work was to move the backslash into the
> variable instead:
>
> target_dir='D:\\archive\\'
>
> sed -n 's/\(.*\)\\\(.*\)\.idx/'"\"$compress_exe\" $compress_opts
> \"$target_dir"'\2'".$compress_ext"'\" \"\1\2.*\"/p' $1
>
> This worked.  Is there something fundamental I'm overlooking with the
> earlier version or is it a bug?
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From carl at carltm.com  Sat Jan 23 21:24:29 2010
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 21:24:29 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] GNU sed weirdness
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e91001231811u11bbcc2ay598eb5b3ab769fdc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e91001231811u11bbcc2ay598eb5b3ab769fdc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8da7b593c48874522fa7172ffc3f810d.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> without extension.  What I though was the correct form looks like
> this:
>
> sed -n 's/\(.*\)\\\(.*\)\.idx/'"\"$compress_exe\" $compress_opts
> \"$target_dir\\"'\2'".$compress_ext"'\" \"\1\\2.*\"/p' $1

I think the key part is the \1\\2 which I understand you
want to be \1 followed by a \ followed by \2.  If that's
right, it is being interpreted as \1, \\ and 2.  Try using
\1\\\2 and see it that gets the desired results.

c




From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sat Jan 23 21:32:53 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 21:32:53 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] GNU sed weirdness
In-Reply-To: <8da7b593c48874522fa7172ffc3f810d.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
References: <b02c40e91001231811u11bbcc2ay598eb5b3ab769fdc@mail.gmail.com>
	<8da7b593c48874522fa7172ffc3f810d.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e91001231832s4359f693q6e9dcd187c340445@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 9:24 PM, Carl T. Miller <carl at carltm.com> wrote:
> Jeff Hanson wrote:
>> without extension. ?What I though was the correct form looks like
>> this:
>>
>> sed -n 's/\(.*\)\\\(.*\)\.idx/'"\"$compress_exe\" $compress_opts
>> \"$target_dir\\"'\2'".$compress_ext"'\" \"\1\\2.*\"/p' $1
>
> I think the key part is the \1\\2 which I understand you
> want to be \1 followed by a \ followed by \2. ?If that's
> right, it is being interpreted as \1, \\ and 2. ?Try using
> \1\\\2 and see it that gets the desired results.
>

That was a typo I caught that just after I posted.  The earlier
$target_dir"'\2 section was the one I was having problems with.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sat Jan 23 21:33:57 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 21:33:57 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] GNU sed weirdness
In-Reply-To: <615fa0ed1001231816p4f64215s31f01d3d1535151d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e91001231811u11bbcc2ay598eb5b3ab769fdc@mail.gmail.com>
	<615fa0ed1001231816p4f64215s31f01d3d1535151d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e91001231833p792768cbo8ed97e8badf8e7b@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 9:16 PM, Dennis VanHoey <devanhoe at gmail.com> wrote:
> have you tried using the forward slash instead? (not that I have recently
> used sed) but normally gnu tools will accept a forward slash and translate
> it internally.
>

I'm not sure what you mean.  Use / as an escape?


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sat Jan 23 21:35:17 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 21:35:17 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] GNU sed weirdness
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e91001231832s4359f693q6e9dcd187c340445@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e91001231811u11bbcc2ay598eb5b3ab769fdc@mail.gmail.com>
	<8da7b593c48874522fa7172ffc3f810d.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
	<b02c40e91001231832s4359f693q6e9dcd187c340445@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e91001231835r3582e115je19193ca982d69d1@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 9:32 PM, Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 9:24 PM, Carl T. Miller <carl at carltm.com> wrote:
>> Jeff Hanson wrote:
>>> without extension. ?What I though was the correct form looks like
>>> this:
>>>
>>> sed -n 's/\(.*\)\\\(.*\)\.idx/'"\"$compress_exe\" $compress_opts
>>> \"$target_dir\\"'\2'".$compress_ext"'\" \"\1\\2.*\"/p' $1
>>
>> I think the key part is the \1\\2 which I understand you
>> want to be \1 followed by a \ followed by \2. ?If that's
>> right, it is being interpreted as \1, \\ and 2. ?Try using
>> \1\\\2 and see it that gets the desired results.
>>
>
> That was a typo I caught that just after I posted. ?The earlier
> $target_dir"'\2 section was the one I was having problems with.
>

I meant $target_dir\\"'\2'" (the other was my corrected version which
had the backslash in the variable instead)


From devanhoe at gmail.com  Sat Jan 23 21:54:07 2010
From: devanhoe at gmail.com (Dennis VanHoey)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 21:54:07 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] GNU sed weirdness
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e91001231833p792768cbo8ed97e8badf8e7b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e91001231811u11bbcc2ay598eb5b3ab769fdc@mail.gmail.com>
	<615fa0ed1001231816p4f64215s31f01d3d1535151d@mail.gmail.com>
	<b02c40e91001231833p792768cbo8ed97e8badf8e7b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <615fa0ed1001231854s78f61e45gce42a48bf9c4b8e8@mail.gmail.com>

no as a directory separator, if its practical.

On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 9:33 PM, Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 9:16 PM, Dennis VanHoey <devanhoe at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > have you tried using the forward slash instead? (not that I have recently
> > used sed) but normally gnu tools will accept a forward slash and
> translate
> > it internally.
> >
>
> I'm not sure what you mean.  Use / as an escape?
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From driveray at ameritech.net  Sun Jan 24 00:48:02 2010
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 00:48:02 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] GNU sed weirdness
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e91001231811u11bbcc2ay598eb5b3ab769fdc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e91001231811u11bbcc2ay598eb5b3ab769fdc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B5BDF12.90303@ameritech.net>

Jeff:
While I haven't parsed exactly what you are trying to do, I do have one
comment.

The "sed s" construct can use characters other than the forward slash as
its field delimiter. Strictly speaking, sed treats the first character
after the 's' as its delimiter. In practice some characters work better
than others. If I'm parsing strings with lots of slashes in the, like
path strings generated in Windows, I use '%' as it rarely appears in
filenames. Thus:

$ cat filelist.txt | sed s%.EXE%.exe%g >>filelist.tmp

should change all instances of '.EXE' to '.exe' in an input file full of
Windows generated filenames.

Since your example contains no '%'s this should help.

Raymond McLaughlin

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> With GNU sed on Ubuntu 8.04 I'm wrote a simple script that takes in a
> Windows full-path file listing and changes it to a Windows 7-zip
> compression batch file.  It uses back references get the parent
> directory path and filename.  There are several files that have the
> same name but with different extensions and I just want to put all the
> ones that match by filename into the same 7z file.  I wanted to use
> variables for the 7-zip path, target directory, and compression
> options.  Because of spaces in the directory and file names I need to
> embed quotes.  To keep the sed command from getting really ugly I
> split it up into a single-quoted search, double-quoted (because of
> variable expansions) replacement for the variables followed by
> single-quoted replacement for the back references.  The back
> references \1 holds the directory path and \2 holds the filename
> without extension.  What I though was the correct form looks like
> this:
> 
> sed -n 's/\(.*\)\\\(.*\)\.idx/'"\"$compress_exe\" $compress_opts
> \"$target_dir\\"'\2'".$compress_ext"'\" \"\1\\2.*\"/p' $1
> 
> Broken up:
> sed -n 's/\(.*\)\\\(.*\)\.idx/'
> "\"$compress_exe\" $compress_opts \"$target_dir\\"
> '\2'
> ".$compress_ext"
> '\" \"\1\\2.*\"/p' $1
> 
> Basic input is:
> compress_exe='c:\\Program Files\\7-Zip\\7z.exe'
> compress_ext='7z'
> compress_opts='a -mx=7 -ms=on -wD:\\'
> target_dir='D:\\archive'
> 
> filelist.txt ($1):
> D:\data\20100123.idx (the directory contains several other files with
> the same path/name but with different extensions)
> ...
> 
> Desired output is:
> "c:\Program Files\7-Zip\7z.exe" a -mx=7 -ms=on -wD:\
> "D:\archive\20100123.7z" "D:\data\20100123.*"
> 
> Not too complicated but it doesn't work.  I tried different quotes and
> escape orders but always end up with:
> "c:\Program Files\7-Zip\7z.exe" a -mx=7 -ms=on -wD:\ "D:\archive\2.7z"
> "D:\data\20100123.*"
> 
> For some reason it seems that sed gets confused by the double-quoted
> escaped backslash and the following single-quoted back reference \2.
> Either it prints nothing or uses the back reference index literally.
> The only way I could get it to work was to move the backslash into the
> variable instead:
> 
> target_dir='D:\\archive\\'
> 
> sed -n 's/\(.*\)\\\(.*\)\.idx/'"\"$compress_exe\" $compress_opts
> \"$target_dir"'\2'".$compress_ext"'\" \"\1\2.*\"/p' $1
> 
> This worked.  Is there something fundamental I'm overlooking with the
> earlier version or is it a bug?
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 



From driveray at ameritech.net  Sun Jan 24 01:08:08 2010
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 01:08:08 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] GNU sed weirdness
In-Reply-To: <4B5BDF12.90303@ameritech.net>
References: <b02c40e91001231811u11bbcc2ay598eb5b3ab769fdc@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B5BDF12.90303@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <4B5BE3C8.3050707@ameritech.net>

Looking again, it might not be much help. Sorry.

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Jeff:
> While I haven't parsed exactly what you are trying to do, I do have one
> comment.
> 
> The "sed s" construct can use characters other than the forward slash as
> its field delimiter. Strictly speaking, sed treats the first character
> after the 's' as its delimiter. In practice some characters work better
> than others. If I'm parsing strings with lots of slashes in the, like
> path strings generated in Windows, I use '%' as it rarely appears in
> filenames. Thus:
> 
> $ cat filelist.txt | sed s%.EXE%.exe%g >>filelist.tmp
> 
> should change all instances of '.EXE' to '.exe' in an input file full of
> Windows generated filenames.
> 
> Since your example contains no '%'s this should help.
> 
> Raymond McLaughlin
> 
> Jeff Hanson wrote:
>> With GNU sed on Ubuntu 8.04 I'm wrote a simple script that takes in a
>> Windows full-path file listing and changes it to a Windows 7-zip
>> compression batch file.  It uses back references get the parent
>> directory path and filename.  There are several files that have the
>> same name but with different extensions and I just want to put all the
>> ones that match by filename into the same 7z file.  I wanted to use
>> variables for the 7-zip path, target directory, and compression
>> options.  Because of spaces in the directory and file names I need to
>> embed quotes.  To keep the sed command from getting really ugly I
>> split it up into a single-quoted search, double-quoted (because of
>> variable expansions) replacement for the variables followed by
>> single-quoted replacement for the back references.  The back
>> references \1 holds the directory path and \2 holds the filename
>> without extension.  What I though was the correct form looks like
>> this:
>>
>> sed -n 's/\(.*\)\\\(.*\)\.idx/'"\"$compress_exe\" $compress_opts
>> \"$target_dir\\"'\2'".$compress_ext"'\" \"\1\\2.*\"/p' $1
>>
>> Broken up:
>> sed -n 's/\(.*\)\\\(.*\)\.idx/'
>> "\"$compress_exe\" $compress_opts \"$target_dir\\"
>> '\2'
>> ".$compress_ext"
>> '\" \"\1\\2.*\"/p' $1
>>
>> Basic input is:
>> compress_exe='c:\\Program Files\\7-Zip\\7z.exe'
>> compress_ext='7z'
>> compress_opts='a -mx=7 -ms=on -wD:\\'
>> target_dir='D:\\archive'
>>
>> filelist.txt ($1):
>> D:\data\20100123.idx (the directory contains several other files with
>> the same path/name but with different extensions)
>> ...
>>
>> Desired output is:
>> "c:\Program Files\7-Zip\7z.exe" a -mx=7 -ms=on -wD:\
>> "D:\archive\20100123.7z" "D:\data\20100123.*"
>>
>> Not too complicated but it doesn't work.  I tried different quotes and
>> escape orders but always end up with:
>> "c:\Program Files\7-Zip\7z.exe" a -mx=7 -ms=on -wD:\ "D:\archive\2.7z"
>> "D:\data\20100123.*"
>>
>> For some reason it seems that sed gets confused by the double-quoted
>> escaped backslash and the following single-quoted back reference \2.
>> Either it prints nothing or uses the back reference index literally.
>> The only way I could get it to work was to move the backslash into the
>> variable instead:
>>
>> target_dir='D:\\archive\\'
>>
>> sed -n 's/\(.*\)\\\(.*\)\.idx/'"\"$compress_exe\" $compress_opts
>> \"$target_dir"'\2'".$compress_ext"'\" \"\1\2.*\"/p' $1
>>
>> This worked.  Is there something fundamental I'm overlooking with the
>> earlier version or is it a bug?
>> _______________________________________________
>> mdlug mailing list
>> mdlug at mdlug.org
>> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sun Jan 24 01:31:28 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 01:31:28 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] GNU sed weirdness
In-Reply-To: <4B5BE3C8.3050707@ameritech.net>
References: <b02c40e91001231811u11bbcc2ay598eb5b3ab769fdc@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B5BDF12.90303@ameritech.net> <4B5BE3C8.3050707@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <b02c40e91001232231j5ecd4e5flecd47791f4d2617a@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 1:08 AM, Raymond McLaughlin
<driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
> Looking again, it might not be much help. Sorry.
>

Thanks for the tip but I thought of that and came to the same conclusion.


From driveray at ameritech.net  Sun Jan 24 01:39:38 2010
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 01:39:38 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] GNU sed weirdness
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e91001232231j5ecd4e5flecd47791f4d2617a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e91001231811u11bbcc2ay598eb5b3ab769fdc@mail.gmail.com>	<4B5BDF12.90303@ameritech.net>
	<4B5BE3C8.3050707@ameritech.net>
	<b02c40e91001232231j5ecd4e5flecd47791f4d2617a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B5BEB2A.3040402@ameritech.net>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 1:08 AM, Raymond McLaughlin
> <driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
>> Looking again, it might not be much help. Sorry.
>>
> 
> Thanks for the tip but I thought of that and came to the same conclusion.

Actually using % instead of / might make the delimiters stand out a bit
better, and would work as well.

I'm still looking at your command string. I'm not sure if or how word
wrap is messing with it.

sed -n 's/\(.*\)\\\(.*\)\.idx/'"\"$compress_exe\" $compress_opts
\"$target_dir\\"'\2'".$compress_ext"'\" \"\1\\2.*\"/p' $1


The first and second double quotes are in the construct: "\"

Are you quoting the backslash, or backslash escaping the second double
quote? if the latter, where is the "mate" to the first double quote?


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sun Jan 24 02:12:31 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 02:12:31 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] GNU sed weirdness
In-Reply-To: <4B5BEB2A.3040402@ameritech.net>
References: <b02c40e91001231811u11bbcc2ay598eb5b3ab769fdc@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B5BDF12.90303@ameritech.net> <4B5BE3C8.3050707@ameritech.net>
	<b02c40e91001232231j5ecd4e5flecd47791f4d2617a@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B5BEB2A.3040402@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <b02c40e91001232312hafca716l1bf4c5e3666e5f7b@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 1:39 AM, Raymond McLaughlin
<driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
> I'm still looking at your command string. I'm not sure if or how word
> wrap is messing with it.
>
> sed -n 's/\(.*\)\\\(.*\)\.idx/'"\"$compress_exe\" $compress_opts
> \"$target_dir\\"'\2'".$compress_ext"'\" \"\1\\2.*\"/p' $1
>
>
> The first and second double quotes are in the construct: "\"
>
> Are you quoting the backslash, or backslash escaping the second double
> quote? if the latter, where is the "mate" to the first double quote?

...idx/'"\"$compress_exe = replacement text starts with terminating
single quote followed by a double quoted section to allow variable
expansion.  The first item added to the output is an embedded double
quote as Windows needs the 7-zip path quoted because of spaces in the
path (i.e. "Program Files").  Then the path is added followed by
another embedded double quote, space, the 7-zip options and another
space.

\"$target_dir\\" = escaped double quote at the start of the target
(.7z) archive path, the path itself from the variable, followed by an
embedded (escaped) backslash.

'\2' = single quoted back-reference (#2 is the filename w/o
extension), with a closing single quote.  This is where sed seems to
get confused between the escaped backslash and the back reference.  I
can't remember all the quote combinations I tried and what the errors
were but this should have worked.

".$compress_ext" = period and 7-zip file extension (.7z).

The rest just reproduces the source file path and filename.  The
effect is to replace the original extension with an * so 7-Zip grabs
all the files with the same names and any extension.


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 24 03:23:14 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 03:23:14 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] GNU sed weirdness
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e91001231811u11bbcc2ay598eb5b3ab769fdc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e91001231811u11bbcc2ay598eb5b3ab769fdc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B5C0372.1080500@gmail.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> With GNU sed on Ubuntu 8.04 I'm wrote a simple script that takes in a
> Windows full-path file listing and changes it to a Windows 7-zip
> compression batch file.  It uses back references get the parent
> directory path and filename.  There are several files that have the
> same name but with different extensions and I just want to put all the
> ones that match by filename into the same 7z file.  I wanted to use
> variables for the 7-zip path, target directory, and compression
> options.  Because of spaces in the directory and file names I need to
> embed quotes.  To keep the sed command from getting really ugly I
> split it up into a single-quoted search, double-quoted (because of
> variable expansions) replacement for the variables followed by
> single-quoted replacement for the back references.  The back
> references \1 holds the directory path and \2 holds the filename
> without extension.  What I though was the correct form looks like
> this:
> 
> sed -n 's/\(.*\)\\\(.*\)\.idx/'"\"$compress_exe\" $compress_opts
> \"$target_dir\\"'\2'".$compress_ext"'\" \"\1\\2.*\"/p' $1
> 



> Broken up:
> sed -n 's/\(.*\)\\\(.*\)\.idx/'
> "\"$compress_exe\" $compress_opts \"$target_dir\\"
> '\2'
> ".$compress_ext"
> '\" \"\1\\2.*\"/p' $1

If in doubt, break the problem down instead of trying to do it
all in one fell swoop as a "one-liner"

One liners are one of the major reasons (the other
being the character set) for APL being a "write-only"
(i.e. unreadable.) language.

Perl suffers from the same problem -- too many perl
coders try to write programs to have the fewest number
of newlines rather than being readable (and hence,
debugable and maintainable and debugable.  Did I
mention debugable?).

You're hitting the outer-edge of sed-ness.
But you are smack dab in the middle of awk-ness.

So, I would suggest redoing this in AWK instead.

(I.e, rather than trying to beating your head trying
to use a pocket knife to whittle a piece of wood into
a smooth, round, baseball bat -- something techinically
possible, but very difficult, just put your piece of
wood on a lathe, and get the job done).

Excellent tutorials here:
<http://cm.bell-labs.com/7thEdMan/>

Volume 1 is the man pages we all know and love (sometimes)
Volume 2a and 2b are the tutorial sections.
<http://cm.bell-labs.com/7thEdMan/vol2/awk>

Download the PDF or postscript files to your
computer, and keep them for reference.
http://cm.bell-labs.com/7thEdMan/bswv7.html

PDF:
<http://cm.bell-labs.com/7thEdMan/v7vol1.pdf>
<http://cm.bell-labs.com/7thEdMan/v7vol2a.pdf>
<http://cm.bell-labs.com/7thEdMan/v7vol2b.pdf>

Postscript:
<http://cm.bell-labs.com/7thEdMan/v7vol1.ps.gz>
<http://cm.bell-labs.com/7thEdMan/v7vol2a.ps.gz>
<http://cm.bell-labs.com/7thEdMan/v7vol2b.ps.gz>


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 24 03:57:37 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 03:57:37 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: [opensuse-offtopic]  Very impressive website]
Message-ID: <4B5C0B81.9060204@gmail.com>



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [opensuse-offtopic]  Very impressive website
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 09:55:29 +0100
From: Per Jessen <per at computer.org>
Organization: Per Jessens personal news-server
To: opensuse-offtopic at opensuse.org

Load up the URL, then just wait, don't click anything:

http://producten.hema.nl/ 

A very impressive piece of work!


/Per Jessen, Z?rich


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sun Jan 24 13:43:40 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 13:43:40 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] GNU sed weirdness
In-Reply-To: <4B5C0372.1080500@gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e91001231811u11bbcc2ay598eb5b3ab769fdc@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B5C0372.1080500@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e91001241043k13ce228exc665f3b72670205a@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 3:23 AM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
> If in doubt, break the problem down instead of trying to do it
> all in one fell swoop as a "one-liner"
>

It isn't really a difficult sed script.

> You're hitting the outer-edge of sed-ness.
> But you are smack dab in the middle of awk-ness.
>
> So, I would suggest redoing this in AWK instead.
>

I used AWK once several years ago so I'm somewhat familiar with it's
capabilities.  For this task sed was almost overkill but due to the
strange behavior it was more difficult than what I expected.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sun Jan 24 13:55:19 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 13:55:19 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: [opensuse-offtopic] Very impressive website]
In-Reply-To: <4B5C0B81.9060204@gmail.com>
References: <4B5C0B81.9060204@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e91001241055g5f1b7cc1y7b8a90ae7cf27e94@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 3:57 AM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
> http://producten.hema.nl/

Nifty but would be distracting if it was an actual shopping site.


From amajorov at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 24 23:18:16 2010
From: amajorov at yahoo.com (Allen Majorovic)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 20:18:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] online backup
Message-ID: <3061.41187.qm@web32606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Lately I've been giving some thought to online backup and when an article popped up about a GUI front end for UbuntuOne I thought I'd give it a look.

In a nutshell you get 2 gig for free and 50 gig for $10 a month.

2 gig is kind of tight but $120 per year for a 50 gig hard drive, albeit a hard drive in a nuclear bomb-proof bunker surrounded by warding spells to keep away evil influences, seems kind of a lot. Anyone know of similar services with a bit more gentle ramp-up between "free" and "paid"?

Allen



      

From jrw32982 at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 24 23:40:40 2010
From: jrw32982 at yahoo.com (John Wiersba)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 20:40:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] GNU sed weirdness
Message-ID: <157317.29788.qm@web52706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Jeff,

I mostly agree with Aaron (quoted below).  But just because you can write unreadable perl doesn't mean that you have to.  I would suggest using perl to rewrite this as perl's towering strength is text manipulation.  In general, perl subsumes and unifies both sed and awk functionality.

The following shell script does what I interpret you want based on your original post.  Since you already have filelist.txt, you can skip the creation and removal of it and just use the perl command.  This script produces the following output:

"c:\Program Files\7-Zip\7z.exe" a -mx=7 -ms=on -wD:\ "D:\archive" "D:\data\20100123.*"

-- John Wiersba

cat <<EOF >filelist.txt
D:\data\20100123.idx
D:\data\20100123.dat
EOF

perl -e '
  for (@ARGV) {
     ($var, $val) = split /=/, $_, 2;
     $opt{$var} = $val;
  }
  $_ = <STDIN>;
  chomp;
  s/\.[^.]+\z/.*/;
  print qq{"$opt{compress_exe}" $opt{compress_opts} "$opt{target_dir}" "$_"\n};
  exit 0;

' compress_exe='c:\Program Files\7-Zip\7z.exe' \
  compress_ext='7z'                            \
  compress_opts='a -mx=7 -ms=on -wD:\'         \
  target_dir='D:\archive'                      \
  < filelist.txt
   
rm filelist.txt


-- John Wiersba


Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 03:23:14 -0500
From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [mdlug] GNU sed weirdness

If in doubt, break the problem down instead of trying to do it
all in one fell swoop as a "one-liner"

One liners are one of the major reasons (the other
being the character set) for APL being a "write-only"
(i.e. unreadable.) language.

Perl suffers from the same problem -- too many perl
coders try to write programs to have the fewest number
of newlines rather than being readable (and hence,
debugable and maintainable and debugable.  Did I
mention debugable?).

You're hitting the outer-edge of sed-ness.
But you are smack dab in the middle of awk-ness.

So, I would suggest redoing this in AWK instead.

(I.e, rather than trying to beating your head trying
to use a pocket knife to whittle a piece of wood into
a smooth, round, baseball bat -- something techinically
possible, but very difficult, just put your piece of
wood on a lathe, and get the job done).


      

From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Jan 25 01:33:44 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 01:33:44 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] GNU sed weirdness
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e91001242232r742ae6cbmb4750b80cc840960@mail.gmail.com>
References: <157317.29788.qm@web52706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<b02c40e91001242232r742ae6cbmb4750b80cc840960@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e91001242233j21dac70ah176363b91002ba50@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 11:40 PM, John Wiersba <jrw32982 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Jeff,
>
> I mostly agree with Aaron (quoted below).? But just because you can write
> unreadable perl doesn't mean that you have to.? I would suggest using perl
> to rewrite this as perl's towering strength is text manipulation.? In
> general, perl subsumes and unifies both sed and awk functionality.
>
> The following shell script does what I interpret you want based on your
> original post.? Since you already have filelist.txt, you can skip the
> creation and removal of it and just use the perl command.? This script
> produces the following output:
>
> "c:\Program Files\7-Zip\7z.exe" a -mx=7 -ms=on -wD:\ "D:\archive"
> "D:\data\20100123.*"
>
> -- John Wiersba
>
> cat <<EOF >filelist.txt
> D:\data\20100123.idx
> D:\data\20100123.dat
> EOF
>
> perl -e '
> ? for (@ARGV) {
> ???? ($var, $val) = split /=/, $_, 2;
> ???? $opt{$var} = $val;
> ? }
> ? $_ = <STDIN>;
> ? chomp;
> ? s/\.[^.]+\z/.*/;
> ? print qq{"$opt{compress_exe}" $opt{compress_opts} "$opt{target_dir}"
> "$_"\n};
> ? exit 0;
>
> ' compress_exe='c:\Program Files\7-Zip\7z.exe' \
> ? compress_ext='7z'??????????????????????????? \
> ? compress_opts='a -mx=7 -ms=on -wD:\'???????? \
> ? target_dir='D:\archive'????????????????????? \
> ? < filelist.txt
>
> rm filelist.txt
>
>

Interesting. ?Thanks for the help.


From tesral at wowway.com  Mon Jan 25 09:50:50 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 09:50:50 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] online backup
In-Reply-To: <3061.41187.qm@web32606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <3061.41187.qm@web32606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4B5DAFCA.7080704@wowway.com>

Allen Majorovic wrote:
> Lately I've been giving some thought to online backup and when an article popped up about a GUI front end for UbuntuOne I thought I'd give it a look.
>
> In a nutshell you get 2 gig for free and 50 gig for $10 a month.
>
> 2 gig is kind of tight but $120 per year for a 50 gig hard drive, albeit a hard drive in a nuclear bomb-proof bunker surrounded by warding spells to keep away evil influences, seems kind of a lot. Anyone know of similar services with a bit more gentle ramp-up between "free" and "paid"?
>   

That could go broke and vanish.

Pay $120 (if that much)  for a terabyte and a housing. 

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? -Mohandas K. Gandhi  
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From amajorov at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 25 10:40:41 2010
From: amajorov at yahoo.com (Allen Majorovic)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 07:40:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] online backup
In-Reply-To: <4B5DAFCA.7080704@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <135575.26911.qm@web32606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>



--- On Mon, 1/25/10, Garry Stahl <tesral at wowway.com> wrote:

That could go broke and vanish.

Pay $120 (if that much)? for a terabyte and a housing. 

-- 
Garry? AKA? --Phoenix--? Rising above the Flames.


Not an either/or. I've got a 120 gig drive in an external enclosure of which I use about 24 gig and that's for a full system back up and incremental backups. But I've got about seven or eight gig that I'm sufficiently anxiety-ridden about to want a belt to go with my suspenders.

Allen




      

From Stan at mcomputersolutions.com  Mon Jan 25 19:03:53 2010
From: Stan at mcomputersolutions.com (Stan Green)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 19:03:53 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] online backup
In-Reply-To: <135575.26911.qm@web32606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <135575.26911.qm@web32606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <201001251903.53508.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>

I have not used it myself, but http://www.adrive.com/ give you 50gb for free.

If you want a bigger player, and willing to pay for it, Amazon S3 (Simple 
Storage Service) http://aws.amazon.com/s3/ is $0.15 per GB. You pay only for 
what you use. It is not much cheaper if you are going to need the whole 50gb, 
but for less data, it does bring the cost down. But hurry, their no-transfer 
price ends 6/30/2010. 

On Monday 25 January 2010 10:40:41 am Allen Majorovic wrote:
> --- On Mon, 1/25/10, Garry Stahl <tesral at wowway.com> wrote:
>
> That could go broke and vanish.
>
> Pay $120 (if that much)? for a terabyte and a housing.




From mdlug at wowway.com  Tue Jan 26 15:47:02 2010
From: mdlug at wowway.com (Dean Durant)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 15:47:02 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] building the chrome OS
In-Reply-To: <1625901272.8472651264536915421.JavaMail.root@md03.wow.synacor.com>
Message-ID: <246403406.8482361264538822362.JavaMail.root@md03.wow.synacor.com>

Hello, has anyone tried this? 


I was following the instructions, got to this point in the instructions: 


cd ~/chromiumos/src/scripts 


and found there was no 'scripts'. 




I didn't find this anywhere either: ./make_chroot.sh 




I didn't find ./build_chrome.sh 


for: ./build_chrome.sh --chrome_dir ~/chromium 




Some instructions are debian specific: 



cat >karmic.list <<EOF 
deb http://build.chromium.org/buildbot/packages chromeos_dev main restricted 
deb-src http://build.chromium.org/buildbot/packages chromeos_dev main restricted 
EOF 


# Install karmic debootstrap 
sudo mv karmic.list /etc/apt/sources.list.d/karmic.list 
sudo apt-get update 
sudo apt-get install -y --force-yes debootstrap 


# Remove temporary sources.list entry, so you don't upgrade anything else 
sudo rm /etc/apt/sources.list.d/karmic.list 
sudo apt-get update 







Better to start over with debian or convert these steps to suse? 


I installed alien. 


I have this install CD that installs a suse-based distro with Chrome as the browser. 






Does it make more sense to use gclient or WebKitGit? Is one obsolete? 




Thanks, Dean 















From fulner at alumni.nmu.edu  Tue Jan 26 19:45:53 2010
From: fulner at alumni.nmu.edu (Robert Jim Fulner)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 19:45:53 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: [opensuse-offtopic] Very impressive, website]
Message-ID: <c768576f1001261645w465f71edh464b266aa5aff3c3@mail.gmail.com>

For a site from open source perspective, there sure is a lot of propitiatory
flash crap.

On a somewhat related notice, as I meant to send that derogatory comment a
while ago, is there any way we can integrate some kind of code in the mdlug
digest edition that makes it easier to reply to one section without having
to figure out copy/paste just that section. Those of us on the digest
already don't' feel like we have enough time, but would like to input every
once in a while. As I often to most of my email on my Android/Linux
phone(which is why I couldn't even see the page in question)  the whole copy
and paste of only certain sections can be quite difficult.

Of course as a lazy open source user, who just plays a developer on IRC, I
have no idea how to do that and want you to do it for me, but that's my two
cents, for what its worth, which seems to be less and less every day.
--
Jim Fulner
The DetroitLibertyPenguin
Promoting Free Minds, Free Markets and Free Software
*and whenever possible Free Beer
*"For as long as one of your brothers is not free, none of you are free"
248-765-7458 (cell)
http://www.facebook.com/jim.fulner


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Tue Jan 26 23:31:20 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 23:31:20 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
Message-ID: <4145b6791001262031s73568a47l88faa8399e1cd7b3@mail.gmail.com>

Those of you who use an Open Source accounting package on your linux
machines, what do you use and how do you like it?

There appear to be quite a few of them available:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_accounting_software#Free_and_open_source_software

Regards,
- Robert


From driveray at ameritech.net  Tue Jan 26 23:50:04 2010
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 23:50:04 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: [opensuse-offtopic] Very impressive, website]
In-Reply-To: <c768576f1001261645w465f71edh464b266aa5aff3c3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c768576f1001261645w465f71edh464b266aa5aff3c3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B5FC5FC.9080800@ameritech.net>

Robert Jim Fulner wrote:
> For a site from open source perspective, there sure is a lot of propitiatory
> flash crap.
> 
> On a somewhat related notice, as I meant to send that derogatory comment a
> while ago, is there any way we can integrate some kind of code in the mdlug
> digest edition that makes it easier to reply to one section without having
> to figure out copy/paste just that section. Those of us on the digest
> already don't' feel like we have enough time, but would like to input every
> once in a while.

As Server Admin, I don't see anything like this happening in the
foreseeable future. The whole point of the digest option, afaik is to
get one big blob of text rather than individual posts.

> As I often to most of my email on my Android/Linux
> phone(which is why I couldn't even see the page in question)  the whole copy
> and paste of only certain sections can be quite difficult.

Switching from digest to individual posts would be the most practical
solution.

> Of course as a lazy open source user, who just plays a developer on IRC, I
> have no idea how to do that and want you to do it for me, but that's my two
> cents, for what its worth, which seems to be less and less every day.
> --
> Jim Fulner
> The DetroitLibertyPenguin
> Promoting Free Minds, Free Markets and Free Software
> *and whenever possible Free Beer
> *"For as long as one of your brothers is not free, none of you are free"
> 248-765-7458 (cell)
> http://www.facebook.com/jim.fulner

Raymond McLaughlin


From tesral at wowway.com  Wed Jan 27 06:58:18 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 06:58:18 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: [opensuse-offtopic] Very impressive, website]
In-Reply-To: <4B5FC5FC.9080800@ameritech.net>
References: <c768576f1001261645w465f71edh464b266aa5aff3c3@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B5FC5FC.9080800@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <4B602A5A.5020005@wowway.com>

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Switching from digest to individual posts would be the most practical
> solution.
>   

It's not like the number of bytes is that much greater.  I would rather
deal with twenty e-mails than try and answer specific numbers of those
twenty e-mails in one blob.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? -Mohandas K. Gandhi  
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From gib at juno.com  Wed Jan 27 15:56:03 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 20:56:03 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] Generic ID owns application files or individual ID
Message-ID: <20100127.155603.27009.0@webmail03.vgs.untd.com>

Generic ID owns application files or individual ID
Do you typically use generic ID file ownership when you develop applications or do you have the source files owned by individual developers?  
____________________________________________________________
Diet Help
Cheap Diet Help Tips. Click here.
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From awilliam at opengroupware.us  Wed Jan 27 16:02:13 2010
From: awilliam at opengroupware.us (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 16:02:13 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Generic ID owns application files or individual ID
In-Reply-To: <20100127.155603.27009.0@webmail03.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20100127.155603.27009.0@webmail03.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <1264626133.3103.5.camel@linux-m3mt>

On Wed, 2010-01-27 at 20:56 +0000, gib at juno.com wrote:
> Generic ID owns application files or individual ID
> Do you typically use generic ID file ownership when you develop applications or do you have the source files owned by individual developers?  

Individual developers,  they all have their own repository.  Usually on
their own machines.

Use distributed version control (like Hg). You'll never want to go back
to subversion [or, *gag*, shared volumes].



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 27 18:57:22 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 18:57:22 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Technical Equipment
Message-ID: <4B60D2E2.2050807@gmail.com>

Noticed on e-bay that there's a LOT of government surplus
electronic testing/evaluation equipment out there --
digital oscilloscopes (single and dual trace) up to
the 100 MHz range and more, spectrum analyzers, etc.

Has the DRCC 501(c)3 non-profit status been acquired
by MDLUG yet?

If so, we might be able to get some of this equipment
under this grant, or one similar to it.

http://www.federalgrantswire.com/disposal-of-federal-surplus-real-property.html



From tesral at wowway.com  Wed Jan 27 19:15:30 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 19:15:30 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Technical Equipment
In-Reply-To: <4B60D2E2.2050807@gmail.com>
References: <4B60D2E2.2050807@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B60D722.3030205@wowway.com>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> Noticed on e-bay that there's a LOT of government surplus
> electronic testing/evaluation equipment out there --
> digital oscilloscopes (single and dual trace) up to
> the 100 MHz range and more, spectrum analyzers, etc.
>
> Has the DRCC 501(c)3 non-profit status been acquired
> by MDLUG yet?
>
> If so, we might be able to get some of this equipment
> under this grant, or one similar to it.
>
> http://www.federalgrantswire.com/disposal-of-federal-surplus-real-property.html
>   

The question asked of the dog after he caught the car....

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? -Mohandas K. Gandhi  
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From petertheplumber at att.net  Wed Jan 27 19:58:59 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 19:58:59 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Technical Equipment
In-Reply-To: <4B60D722.3030205@wowway.com>
References: <4B60D2E2.2050807@gmail.com>  <4B60D722.3030205@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <1264640339.4604.377.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

On Wed, 2010-01-27 at 19:15 -0500, Garry Stahl wrote:
> Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> > Noticed on e-bay that there's a LOT of government surplus
> > electronic testing/evaluation equipment out there --
> > digital oscilloscopes (single and dual trace) up to
> > the 100 MHz range and more, spectrum analyzers, etc.
> >
> > Has the DRCC 501(c)3 non-profit status been acquired
> > by MDLUG yet?
> >
> > If so, we might be able to get some of this equipment
> > under this grant, or one similar to it.
> >
> > http://www.federalgrantswire.com/disposal-of-federal-surplus-real-property.html
> >   
> 
> The question asked of the dog after he caught the car....

Why, we'll play with it!!!!!!!

-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber



From Stan at mcomputersolutions.com  Wed Jan 27 21:21:25 2010
From: Stan at mcomputersolutions.com (Stan Green)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 21:21:25 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791001262031s73568a47l88faa8399e1cd7b3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4145b6791001262031s73568a47l88faa8399e1cd7b3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201001272121.25472.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>

I've tried most of the ones marked as "personal". This is one area I think Linux 
is very weak! Not one of these programs even comes close to the power of 
Quicken. For example, when I was looked for a Quicken replacement, not one of 
them could print checks on blank stock. There is no way I am going back to hand 
writting checks! (Yes, I still pay most of my bill by check.)

So, if you are a Linux developer looking for something to do, build a Quicken 
killer and you will be famous!

Regards,
Stan

On Tuesday 26 January 2010 11:31:20 pm Robert Citek wrote:
> Those of you who use an Open Source accounting package on your linux
> machines, what do you use and how do you like it?
>
> There appear to be quite a few of them available:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_accounting_software#Free_and_ope
>n_source_software
>
> Regards,
> - Robert
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




From rkannan at peoplepc.com  Wed Jan 27 21:48:23 2010
From: rkannan at peoplepc.com (R. Kannan)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 21:48:23 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
Message-ID: <28090913.1264646904136.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

A related question:

With tax filing season around the corner, do any of the Tax preparation software sellers plan to support Linux? TurboTax, H&R, Tax Act, Anyone?


-----Original Message-----
>From: Stan Green <Stan at mcomputersolutions.com>
>Sent: Jan 27, 2010 9:21 PM
>To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
>
>I've tried most of the ones marked as "personal". This is one area I think Linux 
>is very weak! Not one of these programs even comes close to the power of 
>Quicken. For example, when I was looked for a Quicken replacement, not one of 
>them could print checks on blank stock. There is no way I am going back to hand 
>writting checks! (Yes, I still pay most of my bill by check.)
>
>So, if you are a Linux developer looking for something to do, build a Quicken 
>killer and you will be famous!
>
>Regards,
>Stan
>
>On Tuesday 26 January 2010 11:31:20 pm Robert Citek wrote:
>> Those of you who use an Open Source accounting package on your linux
>> machines, what do you use and how do you like it?
>>
>> There appear to be quite a few of them available:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_accounting_software#Free_and_ope
>>n_source_software
>>
>> Regards,
>> - Robert
>> _______________________________________________
>> mdlug mailing list
>> mdlug at mdlug.org
>> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 27 22:09:29 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 22:09:29 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Fair Competition Counseling and Investigation of Complaints
 (36.001) | Federal Grants Wire
Message-ID: <4B60FFE9.3030507@gmail.com>

Objectives
To prevent business practices that are anticompetitive or deceptive or unfair to consumers; to enhance informed consumer choice and public understanding of the competitive process; and to accomplish these missions without unduly burdening legitimate business activity.

Types of Assistance
Advisory Services and Counseling;
Investigation of Complaints.

Uses and Use Restrictions
To prevent consumer fraud and deception, anticompetitive mergers, and unfair and other anticompetitive business practices in the marketplace.

Eligibility Requirements

Applicant Eligibility
Assistance is available to the general public.

Beneficiary Eligibility
General public.

Credentials/Documentation
Complaints must contain facsimiles of questioned advertising, labeling or other practice, or a summary of any oral misrepresentation involved, together with name and address of the alleged offender.





Wow... looks like someone could get a grant giving full
time income work devoted to doing nothing more than
investigating anti-competitive practices of a certain
business with a street address of One Microsoft Way.

<http://www.federalgrantswire.com/fair-competition-counseling-and-investigation-of-complaints.html>


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Wed Jan 27 22:30:41 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 22:30:41 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <201001272121.25472.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
References: <4145b6791001262031s73568a47l88faa8399e1cd7b3@mail.gmail.com>
	<201001272121.25472.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <4145b6791001271930o7fac3338ra1b790eecf9a37e@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 9:21 PM, Stan Green <Stan at mcomputersolutions.com> wrote:
> I've tried most of the ones marked as "personal". This is one area I think Linux
> is very weak! Not one of these programs even comes close to the power of
> Quicken. For example, when I was looked for a Quicken replacement, not one of
> them could print checks on blank stock. There is no way I am going back to hand
> writting checks! (Yes, I still pay most of my bill by check.)

Can I assume that means you don't run any of the Open Source packages
and instead are using Quicken?  If so, how are you running Quicken,
e.g on a non-Linux machine, within Wine[1], something else?

http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=107

Regards,
- Robert


From Stan at mcomputersolutions.com  Wed Jan 27 22:41:31 2010
From: Stan at mcomputersolutions.com (Stan Green)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 22:41:31 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <28090913.1264646904136.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <28090913.1264646904136.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <201001272241.31130.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>

Are you kidding, H&R Block even dropped Win2K this year. They don't even support 
Win2K if you use their online version. (The do allow Firefox, but only on 
Windows XP or later. So much for the web being OS independent!) I was fighting 
with H&R block CS for over an hour on this. Linux is not even a blip on the 
radar to them.

I was very unhappy that I had to create a XP image in VMWare just to do my 
taxes! I would go back to paper if it was not shooting myself in the foot.

I can only assume the rest are about equal on this issue. TurboTax also dropped 
support for Win2K this year.

Regards,
Stan

On Wednesday 27 January 2010 09:48:23 pm R. Kannan wrote:
> A related question:
>
> With tax filing season around the corner, do any of the Tax preparation
> software sellers plan to support Linux? TurboTax, H&R, Tax Act, Anyone?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> >From: Stan Green <Stan at mcomputersolutions.com>
> >Sent: Jan 27, 2010 9:21 PM
> >To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> >Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
> >
> >I've tried most of the ones marked as "personal". This is one area I think
> > Linux is very weak! Not one of these programs even comes close to the
> > power of Quicken. For example, when I was looked for a Quicken
> > replacement, not one of them could print checks on blank stock. There is
> > no way I am going back to hand writting checks! (Yes, I still pay most of
> > my bill by check.)
> >
> >So, if you are a Linux developer looking for something to do, build a
> > Quicken killer and you will be famous!
> >
> >Regards,
> >Stan
> >
> >On Tuesday 26 January 2010 11:31:20 pm Robert Citek wrote:
> >> Those of you who use an Open Source accounting package on your linux
> >> machines, what do you use and how do you like it?
> >>
> >> There appear to be quite a few of them available:
> >>
> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_accounting_software#Free_and_
> >>ope n_source_software
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> - Robert
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> mdlug mailing list
> >> mdlug at mdlug.org
> >> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >mdlug mailing list
> >mdlug at mdlug.org
> >http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
> ________________________________________
> PeoplePC Online
> A better way to Internet
> http://www.peoplepc.com
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




From Stan at mcomputersolutions.com  Wed Jan 27 22:45:35 2010
From: Stan at mcomputersolutions.com (Stan Green)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 22:45:35 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791001271930o7fac3338ra1b790eecf9a37e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4145b6791001262031s73568a47l88faa8399e1cd7b3@mail.gmail.com>
	<201001272121.25472.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
	<4145b6791001271930o7fac3338ra1b790eecf9a37e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201001272245.35190.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>

I have run the open source version, but I always go back to Quicken.

I run Quicken 2004 and tax programs in VMWare Workstation 6.5. I was using 
Win2K, but H&R Block dropped Win2k, so I have to create an XP image for taxes 
this year.

On Wednesday 27 January 2010 10:30:41 pm Robert Citek wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 9:21 PM, Stan Green <Stan at mcomputersolutions.com> 
wrote:
> > I've tried most of the ones marked as "personal". This is one area I
> > think Linux is very weak! Not one of these programs even comes close to
> > the power of Quicken. For example, when I was looked for a Quicken
> > replacement, not one of them could print checks on blank stock. There is
> > no way I am going back to hand writting checks! (Yes, I still pay most of
> > my bill by check.)
>
> Can I assume that means you don't run any of the Open Source packages
> and instead are using Quicken?  If so, how are you running Quicken,
> e.g on a non-Linux machine, within Wine[1], something else?
>
> http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=107
>
> Regards,
> - Robert
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




From davidl at lmert.com  Wed Jan 27 22:47:52 2010
From: davidl at lmert.com (David Lee Lambert)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 22:47:52 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <201001272121.25472.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
References: <4145b6791001262031s73568a47l88faa8399e1cd7b3@mail.gmail.com>
	<201001272121.25472.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <c5df8cf61001271947k5a35cccboa8ba8ba73d155968@mail.gmail.com>

I have almost 3 years of records entered with GNUCash, and I mostly like
it.  I've never used it to print checks;  I write a few checks by hand,  but
pay most bills through my bank's website.  One time I wanted to analyze some
data further in a spreadsheet,  and wrote a perl script to parse the XML
data-file and extract what I was looking for.

2010/1/27 Stan Green <Stan at mcomputersolutions.com>

> I've tried most of the ones marked as "personal". This is one area I think
> Linux
> is very weak! Not one of these programs even comes close to the power of
> Quicken. For example, when I was looked for a Quicken replacement, not one
> of
> them could print checks on blank stock. There is no way I am going back to
> hand
> writting checks! (Yes, I still pay most of my bill by check.)
>
> So, if you are a Linux developer looking for something to do, build a
> Quicken
> killer and you will be famous!
>
> Regards,
> Stan
>
> On Tuesday 26 January 2010 11:31:20 pm Robert Citek wrote:
> > Those of you who use an Open Source accounting package on your linux
> > machines, what do you use and how do you like it?
> [...]
>


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Wed Jan 27 22:59:37 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 22:59:37 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <c5df8cf61001271947k5a35cccboa8ba8ba73d155968@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4145b6791001262031s73568a47l88faa8399e1cd7b3@mail.gmail.com>
	<201001272121.25472.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
	<c5df8cf61001271947k5a35cccboa8ba8ba73d155968@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4145b6791001271959x14a9c3fsda8e3c400497a1be@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 10:47 PM, David Lee Lambert <davidl at lmert.com> wrote:
> I have almost 3 years of records entered with GNUCash, and I mostly like
> it. ?I've never used it to print checks; ?I write a few checks by hand, ?but
> pay most bills through my bank's website. ?One time I wanted to analyze some
> data further in a spreadsheet, ?and wrote a perl script to parse the XML
> data-file and extract what I was looking for.

Is that because GnuCash was not able export data into common
spreadsheet formats, e.g. csv, .xls, .ods?

Regards,
- Robert


From tesral at wowway.com  Wed Jan 27 23:09:18 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 23:09:18 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Technical Equipment
In-Reply-To: <1264640339.4604.377.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
References: <4B60D2E2.2050807@gmail.com> <4B60D722.3030205@wowway.com>
	<1264640339.4604.377.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <4B610DEE.4080702@wowway.com>

Peter Bart wrote:
> Why, we'll play with it!!!!!!!
>
>   

Also, Where does this hardware get stored?  Who will be responsible for
it?  And so forth.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? -Mohandas K. Gandhi  
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From davidl at lmert.com  Wed Jan 27 23:17:41 2010
From: davidl at lmert.com (David Lee Lambert)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 23:17:41 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791001271959x14a9c3fsda8e3c400497a1be@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4145b6791001262031s73568a47l88faa8399e1cd7b3@mail.gmail.com>
	<201001272121.25472.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
	<c5df8cf61001271947k5a35cccboa8ba8ba73d155968@mail.gmail.com>
	<4145b6791001271959x14a9c3fsda8e3c400497a1be@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c5df8cf61001272017l1de936c1j4cb846901b32560c@mail.gmail.com>

Yes,  it doesn't have that feature.  The FAQ lists several alternatives,
none quite as satisfactory as what I'd like (select a subset of
accounts, result is a spreadsheet with date and memo columns plus one column
per account):

http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_How_can_I_export_data.3F

2010/1/27 Robert Citek <robert.citek at gmail.com>

> On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 10:47 PM, David Lee Lambert <davidl at lmert.com>
> wrote:
> > I have almost 3 years of records entered with GNUCash, and I mostly like
> > it.  I've never used it to print checks;  I write a few checks by hand,
>  but
> > pay most bills through my bank's website.  One time I wanted to analyze
> some
> > data further in a spreadsheet,  and wrote a perl script to parse the XML
> > data-file and extract what I was looking for.
>
> Is that because GnuCash was not able export data into common
> spreadsheet formats, e.g. csv, .xls, .ods?
>
> Regards,
> - Robert
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Thu Jan 28 00:24:21 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 00:24:21 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791001262031s73568a47l88faa8399e1cd7b3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4145b6791001262031s73568a47l88faa8399e1cd7b3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4145b6791001272124q5528606fiab29e5ae1a806d35@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 11:31 PM, Robert Citek <robert.citek at gmail.com> wrote:
> Those of you who use an Open Source accounting package on your linux
> machines, what do you use and how do you like it?

Let me broaden the question: of those of you that use any kind (open
source, proprietary, SaaS) accounting software on Linux, what
accounting software do you use?  What factors when into that decision?

A slight variation: if a non-techie friend was starting a business
(e.g. a dog day-care service) and asked you what kind of accounting
software to use under Linux, what would you recommend?  What factors
did you consider for the recommendation?

Regards,
- Robert


From driveray at ameritech.net  Thu Jan 28 00:53:35 2010
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 00:53:35 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Painfully simple ln -s command question
Message-ID: <4B61265F.4090404@ameritech.net>

MDLUGers:
I have been chasing this around for over an hour, the man page is no
help,  and it's bugging me.

I have a directory off my home:
   ~/bin .
This directory contains an executable:
   ~/bin/clearline .
I want to create a simlink in this directory that looks like this:
   bin/cln -> clearline

The simplest way to just do it is:
    $ cd bin
    $ ln -s clearline cln

But I should be able to do this with one command, from within my home
directory.

But this is what happens: the command
    $ ln -s bin/clearline  cln
results in a simlink to the right file, but in the current (home) directory.

The commands:
     $ln -s bin/clearline ~/bin/cln
and
     $ln -s bin/clearline ./bin/cln
results in malformed simlinks *in the ~/bin directory:
 bin/cln -> bin/clearline
that point to a file in a nonexistent subdirectory: ~/bin/bin .

The command:
    $ ln -s ~/bin/clearline  ~/bin/cln
does create a link to the right file, in the right directory, but it
takes the form:
    cln -> /home/rmclaughlin/bin/clearline
rather than the desired
    cln -> clearline .

I could have worked around this with a cd command and then the link
command, but it just bugs me that I can't come up with a working single
command sytax.

It's probably obvious, but I don't see it. Any help?

Raymond McLaughlin






From robert.citek at gmail.com  Thu Jan 28 01:00:54 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 01:00:54 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Painfully simple ln -s command question
In-Reply-To: <4B61265F.4090404@ameritech.net>
References: <4B61265F.4090404@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <4145b6791001272200r519fc470x7c9a30d5459aa579@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 12:53 AM, Raymond McLaughlin
<driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
> MDLUGers:
> I have been chasing this around for over an hour, the man page is no
> help, ?and it's bugging me.
>
> I have a directory off my home:
> ? ~/bin .
> This directory contains an executable:
> ? ~/bin/clearline .
> I want to create a simlink in this directory that looks like this:
> ? bin/cln -> clearline
>
> The simplest way to just do it is:
> ? ?$ cd bin
> ? ?$ ln -s clearline cln

$ ln -snf clearnline ~/bin/cln

Regards,
- Robert


From driveray at ameritech.net  Thu Jan 28 00:57:08 2010
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 00:57:08 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Painfully simple ln -s command question
In-Reply-To: <4B61265F.4090404@ameritech.net>
References: <4B61265F.4090404@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <4B612734.8000401@ameritech.net>

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
Typo in that explanation:

<snip>
> 
> The commands:
>      $ln -s bin/clearline  /bin/cln
                            ^
> and
>      $ln -s bin/clearline ./bin/cln
> results in malformed simlinks *in the ~/bin directory:
>  bin/cln -> bin/clearline
> that point to a file in a nonexistent subdirectory: ~/bin/bin .
<snip>



From driveray at ameritech.net  Thu Jan 28 01:14:59 2010
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 01:14:59 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Painfully simple ln -s command question
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791001272200r519fc470x7c9a30d5459aa579@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B61265F.4090404@ameritech.net>
	<4145b6791001272200r519fc470x7c9a30d5459aa579@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B612B63.6030000@ameritech.net>

Robert Citek wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 12:53 AM, Raymond McLaughlin
> <driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
>> MDLUGers:
>> I have been chasing this around for over an hour, the man page is no
>> help,  and it's bugging me.
>>
>> I have a directory off my home:
>>   ~/bin .
>> This directory contains an executable:
>>   ~/bin/clearline .
>> I want to create a symlink in this directory that looks like this:
>>   bin/cln -> clearline
>>
>> The simplest way to just do it is:
>>    $ cd bin
>>    $ ln -s clearline cln
> 
> $ ln -snf clearnline ~/bin/cln

Thanks for the rapid reply, it works.

I saw in the man page:
>       -n, --no-dereference
>               treat destination that is a symlink to a directory as if it were a normal file

but it seemed to be about symlinks to directories, and I was linking to
a regular file, so I didn't consider it. I guess I was confusing
"destination" with "target". The info page is more informative.

Thanks
Raymond McLaughlin








From robert.citek at gmail.com  Thu Jan 28 01:37:56 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 01:37:56 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Painfully simple ln -s command question
In-Reply-To: <4B612B63.6030000@ameritech.net>
References: <4B61265F.4090404@ameritech.net>
	<4145b6791001272200r519fc470x7c9a30d5459aa579@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B612B63.6030000@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <4145b6791001272237t6821c677va034f890e62e15a@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 1:14 AM, Raymond McLaughlin
<driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
> Robert Citek wrote:
>> On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 12:53 AM, Raymond McLaughlin
>>> The simplest way to just do it is:
>>> ? ?$ cd bin
>>> ? ?$ ln -s clearline cln
>>
>> $ ln -snf clearnline ~/bin/cln
>
> Thanks for the rapid reply, it works.

Glad to hear it worked for you.  Sorry about the typo in "clearline"

> I saw in the man page:
>> ? ? ? -n, --no-dereference
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? treat destination that is a symlink to a directory as if it were a normal file
>
> but it seemed to be about symlinks to directories, and I was linking to
> a regular file, so I didn't consider it.

"ln -snf" is just a habit of mine.  In your case -f and -n don't do
any harm and are extra.

> I guess I was confusing "destination" with "target". The info page is more informative.

Easy to do with ln.  ls shows the link from left to right:

cln -> clearline

which naturally makes one think that ln works in the same fashion (in
pseudo-code):

$ ln cln -> clearline

or

$ ln ~/bin/cln -> clearline

Regards,
- Robert


From driveray at ameritech.net  Thu Jan 28 01:42:31 2010
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 01:42:31 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Painfully simple ln -s command question
In-Reply-To: <4B612B63.6030000@ameritech.net>
References: <4B61265F.4090404@ameritech.net>	<4145b6791001272200r519fc470x7c9a30d5459aa579@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B612B63.6030000@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <4B6131D7.4020003@ameritech.net>

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Robert Citek wrote:
>> On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 12:53 AM, Raymond McLaughlin
>> <driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
>>> MDLUGers:
>>> I have been chasing this around for over an hour, the man page is no
>>> help,  and it's bugging me.
>>>
>>> I have a directory off my home:
>>>   ~/bin .
>>> This directory contains an executable:
>>>   ~/bin/clearline .
>>> I want to create a symlink in this directory that looks like this:
>>>   bin/cln -> clearline
>>>
>>> The simplest way to just do it is:
>>>    $ cd bin
>>>    $ ln -s clearline cln
>> $ ln -snf clearnline ~/bin/cln
> 
> Thanks for the rapid reply, it works.
> 
> I saw in the man page:
>>       -n, --no-dereference
>>               treat destination that is a symlink to a directory as if it were a normal file
> 
> but it seemed to be about symlinks to directories, and I was linking to
> a regular file, so I didn't consider it. I guess I was confusing
> "destination" with "target". The info page is more informative.

No in their usage "Target" is what could be called "Source" they use the
term "LINK_NAME" ot "LINKNAME" in the documentation. From the man page:
       ln [OPTION]... [-T] TARGET LINK_NAME
I will use this terminology from here on.

> 
> Thanks
> Raymond McLaughlin

Actually the commands:

    pts/3 $ ln -s clearline bin/cln
    pts/3 $ ln -sn clearline bin/cln
    pts/3 $ ln -sT clearline bin/cln

all work. (For simplicity I've ommitted your -f switch that forces
overwriting an existing file.) My error seems to have been inclusion of
the 'bin/' directory specification in the "TARGET". This is counter
intuitive to me. 'ln' looks at the LINK_NAME to determine where to find
the TARGET. Guess I'll have to retool my intuition.

Thanks again
Ray



From robert.citek at gmail.com  Thu Jan 28 02:14:16 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 02:14:16 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Painfully simple ln -s command question
In-Reply-To: <4B6131D7.4020003@ameritech.net>
References: <4B61265F.4090404@ameritech.net>
	<4145b6791001272200r519fc470x7c9a30d5459aa579@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B612B63.6030000@ameritech.net> <4B6131D7.4020003@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <4145b6791001272314n75d9cee0k6a6c86e7f6cc5f2e@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 1:42 AM, Raymond McLaughlin
<driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
> My error seems to have been inclusion of
> the 'bin/' directory specification in the "TARGET". This is counter
> intuitive to me. 'ln' looks at the LINK_NAME to determine where to find
> the TARGET. Guess I'll have to retool my intuition.

Maybe.  For example,

$ ln -s ~/bin/foo ~/bin/bar

I read this in four steps backwards (from right to left).  That is, ln will ...
1) create link called bar ...
2) in the ~/bin/ folder ...
3) pointing to a file foo ...
4) in the ~/bin/ folder

Another example,

$ ln -s ../bin/foo ~/bin/bar

ln will ...
1) create link called bar ...
2) in the ~/bin/ folder ...
3) pointing to a file foo ...
4) in the ../bin/ folder

Relative paths (./ or ../) in the TARGET are relative to the location
of the LINK_NAME.

Regards,
- Robert


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 28 08:25:33 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 05:25:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <201001272121.25472.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
References: <4145b6791001262031s73568a47l88faa8399e1cd7b3@mail.gmail.com>
	<201001272121.25472.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <206361.1727.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Have you looked at GNU Cash?




________________________________
From: Stan Green <Stan at mcomputersolutions.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Wed, January 27, 2010 9:21:25 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software

I've tried most of the ones marked as "personal". This is one area I think Linux 
is very weak! Not one of these programs even comes close to the power of 
Quicken. For example, when I was looked for a Quicken replacement, not one of 
them could print checks on blank stock. There is no way I am going back to hand 
writting checks! (Yes, I still pay most of my bill by check.)

So, if you are a Linux developer looking for something to do, build a Quicken 
killer and you will be famous!

Regards,
Stan

On Tuesday 26 January 2010 11:31:20 pm Robert Citek wrote:
> Those of you who use an Open Source accounting package on your linux
> machines, what do you use and how do you like it?
>
> There appear to be quite a few of them available:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_accounting_software#Free_and_ope
>n_source_software
>
> Regards,
> - Robert
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      

From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 28 10:01:24 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 10:01:24 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Painfully simple ln -s command question
In-Reply-To: <4B61265F.4090404@ameritech.net>
References: <4B61265F.4090404@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <4B61A6C4.6000905@gmail.com>

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> MDLUGers:
> I have been chasing this around for over an hour, the man page is no
> help,  and it's bugging me.
> 
> I have a directory off my home:
>    ~/bin .
> This directory contains an executable:
>    ~/bin/clearline .
> I want to create a simlink in this directory that looks like this:
>    bin/cln -> clearline
> 
> The simplest way to just do it is:
>     $ cd bin
>     $ ln -s clearline cln
> 
> But I should be able to do this with one command, from within my home
> directory.
> 
> But this is what happens: the command
>     $ ln -s bin/clearline  cln
> results in a simlink to the right file, but in the current (home) directory.
> 
> The commands:
>      $ln -s bin/clearline ~/bin/cln
> and
>      $ln -s bin/clearline ./bin/cln
> results in malformed simlinks *in the ~/bin directory:
>  bin/cln -> bin/clearline
> that point to a file in a nonexistent subdirectory: ~/bin/bin .
> 
> The command:
>     $ ln -s ~/bin/clearline  ~/bin/cln
> does create a link to the right file, in the right directory, but it
> takes the form:
>     cln -> /home/rmclaughlin/bin/clearline

ln -s works like this:

ln -s  $A $B

will result in the end of an ls -l listing like this:
   $B -> $A

So, from your home directory:

you want
   /bin/cln -> clearline

so

ln -s clearline /bin/cln

The way you were working was for "hard"
(non-symbolic) links.

> rather than the desired
>     cln -> clearline .
> 
> I could have worked around this with a cd command and then the link
> command, but it just bugs me that I can't come up with a working single
> command sytax.
> 
> It's probably obvious, but I don't see it. Any help?
> 
> Raymond McLaughlin


From awilliam at opengroupware.us  Thu Jan 28 10:14:57 2010
From: awilliam at opengroupware.us (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 10:14:57 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <c5df8cf61001271947k5a35cccboa8ba8ba73d155968@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4145b6791001262031s73568a47l88faa8399e1cd7b3@mail.gmail.com>
	<201001272121.25472.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
	<c5df8cf61001271947k5a35cccboa8ba8ba73d155968@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1264691697.3270.1.camel@linux-m3mt>

On Wed, 2010-01-27 at 22:47 -0500, David Lee Lambert wrote:
> I have almost 3 years of records entered with GNUCash, 

+1.  I've been using GNUCash since Ximian had their red-carpet service
(how long is that? Yikes.) It is a great application.


-- 
OpenGroupware developer: awilliam at whitemice.org
<http://whitemiceconsulting.blogspot.com/>
OpenGroupare & Cyrus IMAPd documenation @
<http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/whitemice/wmogag/file_view>



From awilliam at opengroupware.us  Thu Jan 28 10:20:44 2010
From: awilliam at opengroupware.us (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 10:20:44 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <201001272241.31130.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
References: <28090913.1264646904136.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<201001272241.31130.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <1264692044.3270.4.camel@linux-m3mt>

On Wed, 2010-01-27 at 22:41 -0500, Stan Green wrote:
> Are you kidding, H&R Block even dropped Win2K this year. They don't even support 
> Win2K if you use their online version. (The do allow Firefox, but only on 
> Windows XP or later. So much for the web being OS independent!) I was fighting 
> with H&R block CS for over an hour on this. Linux is not even a blip on the 
> radar to them.
> I was very unhappy that I had to create a XP image in VMWare just to do my 
> taxes! I would go back to paper if it was not shooting myself in the foot.
> I can only assume the rest are about equal on this issue. TurboTax also dropped 
> support for Win2K this year.

Makes sense Win2K is no longer supported.

I make an appointment at H&R, go there with all the paper work, the man
fills out the forms [in what really looks like a Borland OWL app!], and
then he hands me an envelope to stick the check in and mail.

When I get home I write the check, enter that into GNUcash, and mail the
envelope.

All 100% LINUX/GNOME compatible and hassle free.

-- 
OpenGroupware developer: awilliam at whitemice.org
<http://whitemiceconsulting.blogspot.com/>
OpenGroupare & Cyrus IMAPd documenation @
<http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/whitemice/wmogag/file_view>



From rkannan at peoplepc.com  Thu Jan 28 10:47:11 2010
From: rkannan at peoplepc.com (R. Kannan)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 10:47:11 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
Message-ID: <21403502.1264693631506.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>


Man you are missing out the fun of entering data, answering all those questions
and clicking on help :-) I feel sorry for you.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Adam Tauno Williams <awilliam at opengroupware.us>
>Sent: Jan 28, 2010 10:20 AM
>To: mdlug at mdlug.org
>Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
>
>On Wed, 2010-01-27 at 22:41 -0500, Stan Green wrote:
>> Are you kidding, H&R Block even dropped Win2K this year. They don't even support 
>> Win2K if you use their online version. (The do allow Firefox, but only on 
>> Windows XP or later. So much for the web being OS independent!) I was fighting 
>> with H&R block CS for over an hour on this. Linux is not even a blip on the 
>> radar to them.
>> I was very unhappy that I had to create a XP image in VMWare just to do my 
>> taxes! I would go back to paper if it was not shooting myself in the foot.
>> I can only assume the rest are about equal on this issue. TurboTax also dropped 
>> support for Win2K this year.
>
>Makes sense Win2K is no longer supported.
>
>I make an appointment at H&R, go there with all the paper work, the man
>fills out the forms [in what really looks like a Borland OWL app!], and
>then he hands me an envelope to stick the check in and mail.
>
>When I get home I write the check, enter that into GNUcash, and mail the
>envelope.
>
>All 100% LINUX/GNOME compatible and hassle free.
>
>-- 
>OpenGroupware developer: awilliam at whitemice.org
><http://whitemiceconsulting.blogspot.com/>
>OpenGroupare & Cyrus IMAPd documenation @
><http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/whitemice/wmogag/file_view>
>
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com


From awilliam at opengroupware.us  Thu Jan 28 11:10:35 2010
From: awilliam at opengroupware.us (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 11:10:35 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <21403502.1264693631506.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <21403502.1264693631506.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1264695035.3270.12.camel@linux-m3mt>

On Thu, 2010-01-28 at 10:47 -0500, R. Kannan wrote:
> Man you are missing out the fun of entering data, answering all those questions
> and clicking on help :-) I feel sorry for you.

Yep, personal-tax-software is a category I've never understood.
*Buying* a personal-tax-package is like paying to be locked naked in a
small cold damp room for several hours.  It seems obvious why there
isn't any Open Source *personal* tax software.... who would want to
spend their time writing that?  ...Yawn...   [There is Open Source ERP
software - but someone gets paid to develop that].

I work in IT - other people pay me to solve their IT issues.  I pay a
mechanic to fix my car, I pay a dentist to maintain my teeth, and I pay
an accountant to do my taxes.  All of them do what they do far more
quickly and effectively than I could perform those same tasks.

> >On Wed, 2010-01-27 at 22:41 -0500, Stan Green wrote:
> >> Are you kidding, H&R Block even dropped Win2K this year. They don't even support 
> >> Win2K if you use their online version. (The do allow Firefox, but only on 
> >> Windows XP or later. So much for the web being OS independent!) I was fighting 
> >> with H&R block CS for over an hour on this. Linux is not even a blip on the 
> >> radar to them.
> >> I was very unhappy that I had to create a XP image in VMWare just to do my 
> >> taxes! I would go back to paper if it was not shooting myself in the foot.
> >> I can only assume the rest are about equal on this issue. TurboTax also dropped 
> >> support for Win2K this year.
> >Makes sense Win2K is no longer supported.
> >I make an appointment at H&R, go there with all the paper work, the man
> >fills out the forms [in what really looks like a Borland OWL app!], and
> >then he hands me an envelope to stick the check in and mail.
> >When I get home I write the check, enter that into GNUcash, and mail the
> >envelope.
> >All 100% LINUX/GNOME compatible and hassle free.




From gib at juno.com  Thu Jan 28 11:11:10 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 16:11:10 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] mdlug] Technical Equipment
Message-ID: <20100128.111110.26094.2@webmail02.vgs.untd.com>

 
Some interesting computer grants too.
http://www.federalgrantswire.com/computer-and-information-science-and-engineering.html
http://www.federalgrantswire.com/education-technology-state-grants.html

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
To: "mdlug at mdlug.org" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: [mdlug] Technical Equipment
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 18:57:22 -0500

Noticed on e-bay that there's a LOT of government surplus
electronic testing/evaluation equipment out there --
digital oscilloscopes (single and dual trace) up to
the 100 MHz range and more, spectrum analyzers, etc.

Has the DRCC 501(c)3 non-profit status been acquired
by MDLUG yet?

If so, we might be able to get some of this equipment
under this grant, or one similar to it.

http://www.federalgrantswire.com/disposal-of-federal-surplus-real-property.html

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

____________________________________________________________
Weight Loss Program
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From danno at umich.edu  Thu Jan 28 13:53:49 2010
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 13:53:49 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <1264695035.3270.12.camel@linux-m3mt>
References: <21403502.1264693631506.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<1264695035.3270.12.camel@linux-m3mt>
Message-ID: <20100128185349.GA56543@maniac.deathstar.org>

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 11:10:35AM -0500, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> Yep, personal-tax-software is a category I've never understood.
> *Buying* a personal-tax-package is like paying to be locked naked in a
> small cold damp room for several hours.  It seems obvious why there

> I work in IT - other people pay me to solve their IT issues.  I pay a
> mechanic to fix my car, I pay a dentist to maintain my teeth, and I pay
> an accountant to do my taxes.  All of them do what they do far more
> quickly and effectively than I could perform those same tasks.

I paid someone to do my (not super complicated, but i need a 1040
not 1040A or EZ) taxes for a few years.

Then I realized that most of the work was collecting all the data,
and that I was paying them $150 to sit in front of turbotax for an
hour and mail me the results.  I was going in person to drop
everything off, which probably took an hour out of my day (as i
write this i realize i should have mailed it).

I now pay $50 for turbotax, spend the hour locked in a small cold damp room
(actually, my living room, listening to music), and i'm done.

Of course, I often fix my own car, too.  Not as much as I used to before
children, but some still.

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Thu Jan 28 15:17:52 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 15:17:52 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791001272124q5528606fiab29e5ae1a806d35@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4145b6791001262031s73568a47l88faa8399e1cd7b3@mail.gmail.com>
	<4145b6791001272124q5528606fiab29e5ae1a806d35@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4145b6791001281217u6de3e106lf2fd4e3fe075f4c2@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 12:24 AM, Robert Citek <robert.citek at gmail.com> wrote:
> A slight variation: if a non-techie friend was starting a business
> (e.g. a dog day-care service) and asked you what kind of accounting
> software to use under Linux, what would you recommend? ?What factors
> did you consider for the recommendation?

Let me add one degree of separation: if a non-techie friend was
starting a business (e.g. a dog day-care service) and asked me what
kind of accounting software they should use under Linux, what should I
recommend?  What factors should I consider for the recommendation?
One item that's on my list would be who I can refer them to if they
have questions.  Although I can help them with Linux issues, I know
next to nothing about accounting.

Regards,
- Robert


From micorral at comcast.net  Thu Jan 28 20:48:31 2010
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 20:48:31 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <20100128185349.GA56543@maniac.deathstar.org>
References: <21403502.1264693631506.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<1264695035.3270.12.camel@linux-m3mt>
	<20100128185349.GA56543@maniac.deathstar.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.1001282035450.2377@banana.sluggo.net>

2010-01-28, Monsieur Dan Pritts a ecrit:
> I paid someone to do my (not super complicated, but i need a 1040
> not 1040A or EZ) taxes for a few years.
>
> Then I realized that most of the work was collecting all the data,
> and that I was paying them $150 to sit in front of turbotax for an
> hour and mail me the results.  I was going in person to drop
> everything off, which probably took an hour out of my day (as i
> write this i realize i should have mailed it).
>
> I now pay $50 for turbotax, spend the hour locked in a small cold damp room
> (actually, my living room, listening to music), and i'm done.

So you've gone from paying a person $150 to do what you could do yourself,
to paying $50 for software to do what you could do yourself.

I've got that beat. I also use the full 1040 form, but I pay $0 and do
it all - get this! - *by hand*, with no software. Crazy, ain't it? :)

Michael


From Stan at mcomputersolutions.com  Thu Jan 28 20:56:01 2010
From: Stan at mcomputersolutions.com (Stan Green)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 20:56:01 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <21403502.1264693631506.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <21403502.1264693631506.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <201001282056.01351.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>

And don't forget paying 6 times what the software cost. (That is the last time I 
paid H&R Block do my taxes.)
:-)

On Thursday 28 January 2010 10:47:11 am R. Kannan wrote:
> Man you are missing out the fun of entering data, answering all those
> questions and clicking on help :-) I feel sorry for you.
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> >From: Adam Tauno Williams <awilliam at opengroupware.us>
> >Sent: Jan 28, 2010 10:20 AM
> >To: mdlug at mdlug.org
> >Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
> >
> >On Wed, 2010-01-27 at 22:41 -0500, Stan Green wrote:
> >> Are you kidding, H&R Block even dropped Win2K this year. They don't even
> >> support Win2K if you use their online version. (The do allow Firefox,
> >> but only on Windows XP or later. So much for the web being OS
> >> independent!) I was fighting with H&R block CS for over an hour on this.
> >> Linux is not even a blip on the radar to them.
> >> I was very unhappy that I had to create a XP image in VMWare just to do
> >> my taxes! I would go back to paper if it was not shooting myself in the
> >> foot. I can only assume the rest are about equal on this issue. TurboTax
> >> also dropped support for Win2K this year.
> >
> >Makes sense Win2K is no longer supported.
> >
> >I make an appointment at H&R, go there with all the paper work, the man
> >fills out the forms [in what really looks like a Borland OWL app!], and
> >then he hands me an envelope to stick the check in and mail.
> >
> >When I get home I write the check, enter that into GNUcash, and mail the
> >envelope.
> >
> >All 100% LINUX/GNOME compatible and hassle free.
> >
> >--
> >OpenGroupware developer: awilliam at whitemice.org
> ><http://whitemiceconsulting.blogspot.com/>
> >OpenGroupare & Cyrus IMAPd documenation @
> ><http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/whitemice/wmogag/file_view>
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >mdlug mailing list
> >mdlug at mdlug.org
> >http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
> ________________________________________
> PeoplePC Online
> A better way to Internet
> http://www.peoplepc.com
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




From drew4096 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 29 05:25:45 2010
From: drew4096 at gmail.com (Drew)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 05:25:45 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.00.1001282035450.2377@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <21403502.1264693631506.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<1264695035.3270.12.camel@linux-m3mt>
	<20100128185349.GA56543@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1001282035450.2377@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20100129045905.02e56450@pop.gmail.com>

I rather had the impression that spreadsheets were originally 
designed for financial related work,
like accounting. Never mind the fact that I have also found them 
useful for engineering work. In
Open Office I count roughly 60 functions in the Financial category. 
If there's accounting work to
do, Open Office should be suitable. (Printing checks is another 
matter, but I'm sure that can be
programmed.)

At 08:48 PM 1/28/10, Michael Corral wrote:

>So you've gone from paying a person $150 to do what you could do yourself,
>to paying $50 for software to do what you could do yourself.
>
>I've got that beat. I also use the full 1040 form, but I pay $0 and do
>it all - get this! - *by hand*, with no software. Crazy, ain't it? :)

That's the way I have done it, except one year that I used Online 
TurboTimmy, er, Tax (sorry,
too much Tickerforum) in the hope of getting a check from the State 
sooner, which failed miserably
due at least in part to there being no provision for providing 
supporting documents with the online
filing. I never saw what it was about a 1040, even with Schedule A 
and B, that required "professional"
help, though maybe it would be different if I were running a 
business? It's all addition and subtraction
with some multiplication after all, which even if they stopped 
teaching it in elementary school,
calculators can now be bought for one dollar. (Three orders of 
magnitude cheaper than the first one
I laid eyes on, in nominal dollars!)

I never took "accounting" - sounded boring and uninteresting, so 
maybe there's something esoteric
about it that I missed. Would it really be that difficult for someone 
used to, say, calculus and
geometry?

And I also fix my own car whenever possible. It has not been easy for 
me during my life to convince
people to hand money over to me, so I'm generally loathe to hand it 
to other people unnecessarily.


----

- Drew.



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 29 07:24:03 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 07:24:03 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] [mdlug-discuss] Rip Off Waiting To Happen
In-Reply-To: <1264760434.4604.435.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
References: <1264760434.4604.435.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <4B62D363.7040903@gmail.com>

Peter Bart wrote:
> Good Morning Everyone,
> 	So nothing quite gets my goat like getting ripped off. Twice today I
> was asked; after completing an online purchase; if I would like to get a
> coupon towards a future purchase. Of course I say! What's not really
> spelled out is you're buying a subscription that will cost far more than
> the piddly little coupon I wanted. This company "partners" with well
> known sites, but is a separate company. The are known as
> www.webloyalty.com www.shopperdiscountsandrewards.com
> www.reservationrewards.com www.buyerassurance.com
> www.travelvaluesplus.com www.walletshield.com www.completesavings.com.
> See for yourself, and be careful!!
> 
> <http://www.bbb.org/connecticut/business-reviews/buying-clubs-and-group-purchasing-service/webloyaltycom-in-norwalk-ct-77000102>
> <http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/providing-3rd-parties-with-credit-card-information-resulting-in-unauthoried-charges-c269252.html>
> <http://thehive.modbee.com/node/16794>
> <http://blog.consumerwebwatch.org/2009/06/webloyaltycom_faces_senate_scr_1.html>

Thanks Peter,
They have been added to the lits:

in /etc/hosts:
			#black-hole flash ads & ripoff artists

127.0.0.1  localhost	kulkilap	\
			c1.zedo.com c2.zedo.com c3.zedo.com \
			c4.zedo.com  c5.zedo.com \
			banners.adultfriendfinder.com \
			ad.yieldmanager.com \
			pagead2.googlesyndication.com \
			googleads.g.doublecklick.net \
			www.webloyalty.com \
			www.shopperdiscountsandrewards.com \
			www.reservationrewards.com \
			www.buyerassurance.com \
			www.travelvaluesplus.com \
			www.walletshield.com \
			www.completesavings.com 


From carl at carltm.com  Fri Jan 29 08:14:30 2010
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 08:14:30 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] heard of Eucalyptus?
Message-ID: <b567953885e53ddc83f1f922162f377f.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

I just heard that Eucalyptus can support HPC (High
Performance Clustering).  I went to their website
and spent half an hour reading about it.  Basically
they call it a cloud environment which can be used
to test apps before moving to a commercial cloud.

Has anyone else heard of this?  I'm wondering if
this can be set up for HA (High Availability) as
well, similar to how 3tera works.  Do you know of
any good sites about Eucalyptus and open source
cloud computing that don't assume you already know
about their product?

c




From robert.citek at gmail.com  Fri Jan  1 15:10:42 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 15:10:42 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] linux-friendly store in metro area
Message-ID: <4145b6791001011210n71ded6a2rfe6783f322fa9a14@mail.gmail.com>

I'm looking to purchase a new/refurbished machine for running Linux.
I recall several months ago someone mentioning a store in the Ann
Arbor/Detroit metro area that was either exclusively linux or with a
heavy linux emphasis.  What was the name of that store and where is it
located?

Regards,
- Robert


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Fri Jan  1 16:23:23 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 16:23:23 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] linux-friendly store in metro area
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791001011210n71ded6a2rfe6783f322fa9a14@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4145b6791001011210n71ded6a2rfe6783f322fa9a14@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e91001011323x768e46cev6fc11c1fc3ede272@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 3:10 PM, Robert Citek <robert.citek at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm looking to purchase a new/refurbished machine for running Linux.
> I recall several months ago someone mentioning a store in the Ann
> Arbor/Detroit metro area that was either exclusively linux or with a
> heavy linux emphasis. ?What was the name of that store and where is it
> located?

http://www.computerdirectcorp.com


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Fri Jan  1 20:29:54 2010
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 17:29:54 -0800
Subject: [mdlug] linux-friendly store in metro area
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e91001011323x768e46cev6fc11c1fc3ede272@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4145b6791001011210n71ded6a2rfe6783f322fa9a14@mail.gmail.com>
	<b02c40e91001011323x768e46cev6fc11c1fc3ede272@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b67fb0381001011729y45d8a231x645ff80f1f197757@mail.gmail.com>

-- Jeff Hanson wrote:

> --Robert Citek wrote:
>> I'm looking to purchase a new/refurbished machine for running Linux.
>> I recall several months ago someone mentioning a store in the Ann
>> Arbor/Detroit metro area that was either exclusively linux or with a
>> heavy linux emphasis. ?What was the name of that store and where is it
>> located?

http://www.computerdirectcorp.com

Yup.  They even have a rather large "Linux" banner hanging in front of
the store, outside.  I've talked to them; they're serious about it.

~~ Michael Rudas
    My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
    My (mostly Windows) software blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com
    My Protopage Linux links: <http://www.protopage.com/mprudas#Main/Linux_FOSS>


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Fri Jan  1 22:21:01 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 22:21:01 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] linux-friendly store in metro area
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0381001011729y45d8a231x645ff80f1f197757@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4145b6791001011210n71ded6a2rfe6783f322fa9a14@mail.gmail.com>
	<b02c40e91001011323x768e46cev6fc11c1fc3ede272@mail.gmail.com>
	<b67fb0381001011729y45d8a231x645ff80f1f197757@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4145b6791001011921t1fefd0en2cce6145955f635c@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 8:29 PM, Michael Rudas <audiotech50 at gmail.com> wrote:
> -- Jeff Hanson wrote:
>
>> --Robert Citek wrote:
>>> I'm looking to purchase a new/refurbished machine for running Linux.
>>> I recall several months ago someone mentioning a store in the Ann
>>> Arbor/Detroit metro area that was either exclusively linux or with a
>>> heavy linux emphasis. ?What was the name of that store and where is it
>>> located?
>
> http://www.computerdirectcorp.com
>
> Yup. ?They even have a rather large "Linux" banner hanging in front of
> the store, outside. ?I've talked to them; they're serious about it.

Thanks, Jeff and Michael. - Robert


From z_mikowski at yahoo.com  Sat Jan  2 01:23:21 2010
From: z_mikowski at yahoo.com (Michael S. Mikowski)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 22:23:21 -0800
Subject: [mdlug] linux-friendly store in metro area - DELL update
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791001011921t1fefd0en2cce6145955f635c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4145b6791001011210n71ded6a2rfe6783f322fa9a14@mail.gmail.com>
	<b67fb0381001011729y45d8a231x645ff80f1f197757@mail.gmail.com>
	<4145b6791001011921t1fefd0en2cce6145955f635c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201001012223.21338.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>

I will be looking into these guys.

FYI, For first time in 10 years I have been unable to configure a desired Linux 
system with Dell.

Good luck to anyone who tries to get /any/ Dell laptop with Linux.  At this 
point, they only offer crap hardware, hidden deep within the bowels of their 
site.  Go to dell.com and search for Ubuntu.  You'll find the maximum 
resolution on their Studio 15 Ubuntu offering is like 1440x768.  And it gets 
worse from there.

Last year I got an Ubuntu Dell Studio 15 with a 1920x1200 15.3" display, 
battery upgrade (6/8 cell), core2 duo T5750, 2 GB RAM, blue tooth, etc for 
~$685 before shipping. 

I did get someone from Small Business who offered me a Linux laptop with a 
1920x1200 monitor, without Windows 7 or all the marketing-ware crap.  It cost 
$10 /more/ than the MS tax version at  ~$930.

With Windows 7, Dell appears to have retreated from offering anything of value 
for Linux laptops, and has ensured a self-fulfilling prophecy by making Linux 
offerings only on shitty hardware and impossible to find.


On Friday 01 January 2010 07:21:01 pm Robert Citek wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 8:29 PM, Michael Rudas <audiotech50 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > -- Jeff Hanson wrote:
> >> --Robert Citek wrote:
> >>> I'm looking to purchase a new/refurbished machine for running Linux.
> >>> I recall several months ago someone mentioning a store in the Ann
> >>> Arbor/Detroit metro area that was either exclusively linux or with a
> >>> heavy linux emphasis.  What was the name of that store and where is it
> >>> located?
> >
> > http://www.computerdirectcorp.com
> >
> > Yup.  They even have a rather large "Linux" banner hanging in front of
> > the store, outside.  I've talked to them; they're serious about it.
> 
> Thanks, Jeff and Michael. - Robert
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 


From jbroughton at twmi.rr.com  Sat Jan  2 04:19:47 2010
From: jbroughton at twmi.rr.com (Jim Broughton)
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2010 04:19:47 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] linux-friendly store in metro area - DELL update
In-Reply-To: <201001012223.21338.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>
References: <4145b6791001011210n71ded6a2rfe6783f322fa9a14@mail.gmail.com>	<b67fb0381001011729y45d8a231x645ff80f1f197757@mail.gmail.com>	<4145b6791001011921t1fefd0en2cce6145955f635c@mail.gmail.com>
	<201001012223.21338.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4B3F0FB3.7010500@twmi.rr.com>

And this somehow surprises you? Dell was and always has
been a Microsoft shop/shill whatever. The only reason they
even breath a word about Linux is to get Microsoft to make
some sort of stupid concession in the next contract. Then we
start the cycle all over again until the next contract negotiations
start.
The only reason Dell even gives any lip service to Linux at all
is for the people who buy massive amounts of servers that
want  it. Linux on the desktop/laptop is not even on the
radar for most large computer makers.
Any computer made by a mega corp like Dell or HP is going
to be on the lowest level crappy hardware they can find.
I am constantly amazed by what I find inside Dell boxes.
Cheaply constructed cases with some great
amenities but  otherwise filled with cheap motherboards
and peripheral cards. I have not even thought of buying Dell since
I bought a laptop from them back in late 2003.

Jim



Michael S. Mikowski wrote:
> I will be looking into these guys.
>
> FYI, For first time in 10 years I have been unable to configure a desired Linux 
> system with Dell.
>
> Good luck to anyone who tries to get /any/ Dell laptop with Linux.  At this 
> point, they only offer crap hardware, hidden deep within the bowels of their 
> site.  Go to dell.com and search for Ubuntu.  You'll find the maximum 
> resolution on their Studio 15 Ubuntu offering is like 1440x768.  And it gets 
> worse from there.
>
> Last year I got an Ubuntu Dell Studio 15 with a 1920x1200 15.3" display, 
> battery upgrade (6/8 cell), core2 duo T5750, 2 GB RAM, blue tooth, etc for 
> ~$685 before shipping. 
>
> I did get someone from Small Business who offered me a Linux laptop with a 
> 1920x1200 monitor, without Windows 7 or all the marketing-ware crap.  It cost 
> $10 /more/ than the MS tax version at  ~$930.
>
> With Windows 7, Dell appears to have retreated from offering anything of value 
> for Linux laptops, and has ensured a self-fulfilling prophecy by making Linux 
> offerings only on shitty hardware and impossible to find.
>
>
>   




From rkannan at peoplepc.com  Sat Jan  2 09:41:04 2010
From: rkannan at peoplepc.com (R. Kannan)
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 09:41:04 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: [mdlug] linux-friendly store in metro area
Message-ID: <18479168.1262443265089.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net>


Iwas there last week. They had only two hardware configurations with Ubuntu Linux and did not have anyone to talk about customization.  Probably the Linux guy was out.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael Rudas <audiotech50 at gmail.com>
>Sent: Jan 1, 2010 8:29 PM
>To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>Subject: Re: [mdlug] linux-friendly store in metro area
>
>-- Jeff Hanson wrote:
>
>> --Robert Citek wrote:
>>> I'm looking to purchase a new/refurbished machine for running Linux.
>>> I recall several months ago someone mentioning a store in the Ann
>>> Arbor/Detroit metro area that was either exclusively linux or with a
>>> heavy linux emphasis.  What was the name of that store and where is it
>>> located?
>
>http://www.computerdirectcorp.com
>
>Yup.  They even have a rather large "Linux" banner hanging in front of
>the store, outside.  I've talked to them; they're serious about it.
>
>~~ Michael Rudas
>    My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
>    My (mostly Windows) software blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com
>    My Protopage Linux links: <http://www.protopage.com/mprudas#Main/Linux_FOSS>
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com


From jrw32982 at yahoo.com  Sat Jan  2 12:22:41 2010
From: jrw32982 at yahoo.com (John Wiersba)
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 09:22:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] Linux-friendly laptops
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1262451602.16315.mdlug@mdlug.org>
References: <mailman.1.1262451602.16315.mdlug@mdlug.org>
Message-ID: <167108.29424.qm@web52705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

When paying with your own money, in addition to a visit to Computer Direct, who would you recommend buying a laptop from, in order to get a reasonably priced (say $700 max), reasonably sturdy, linux-friendly laptop?  I don't mind a Windows license with it so I can set it up dual boot, but I would much prefer XP without all the DRM, though.  I'm thinking ahead for my daughter going to college next fall.  (If it were for me, I'd also require the Ctrl key in the lower left corner, i.e. no Thinkpads).

Thanks!
-- John Wiersba



      


From tesral at wowway.com  Sat Jan  2 12:46:28 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2010 12:46:28 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Linux-friendly laptops
In-Reply-To: <167108.29424.qm@web52705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.1.1262451602.16315.mdlug@mdlug.org>
	<167108.29424.qm@web52705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4B3F8674.8080704@wowway.com>

John Wiersba wrote:
> When paying with your own money, in addition to a visit to Computer Direct, who would you recommend buying a laptop from, in order to get a reasonably priced (say $700 max), reasonably sturdy, linux-friendly laptop?  I don't mind a Windows license with it so I can set it up dual boot, but I would much prefer XP without all the DRM, though.  I'm thinking ahead for my daughter going to college next fall.  (If it were for me, I'd also require the Ctrl key in the lower left corner, i.e. no Thinkpads).
>   


Think pads have the ctrl in the lower left.  I have a T-61.  Thinkpad is
a very Linux friendly machine too.  Tossing them is tossing one of your
best choices.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? -Mohandas K. Gandhi  
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From z_mikowski at yahoo.com  Sat Jan  2 12:49:16 2010
From: z_mikowski at yahoo.com (Michael Mikowski)
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 09:49:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] linux-friendly store in metro area - DELL update
In-Reply-To: <201001012223.21338.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>
References: <4145b6791001011210n71ded6a2rfe6783f322fa9a14@mail.gmail.com>
	<b67fb0381001011729y45d8a231x645ff80f1f197757@mail.gmail.com>
	<4145b6791001011921t1fefd0en2cce6145955f635c@mail.gmail.com>
	<201001012223.21338.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <894861.4546.qm@web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Today I (re?)discovered http://dell.com/ubuntu and found the new "official" studio 15 offering.

The $594 base price is actually very good, and the laptop is superior in every respect to the one that I purchased last year except for the screen, which is 1366x768 with an LED.  RAM jumps to 3GB from 2GB.  Throw in a 6 cell battery, and you are around $630.

So, its a good computer for a good price, and I'm a bit embarrassed by my last post; however, to be fair to myself :), none of the Dell service reps pointed me in the right direction, and finding the option is still far from obvious on the Dell site.


----- Original Message ----
From: Michael S. Mikowski <z_mikowski at yahoo.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Sat, January 2, 2010 1:23:21 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] linux-friendly store in metro area - DELL update


[FWIW] for first time in 10 years I have been unable to configure a desired Linux 
system with Dell.

Good luck to anyone who tries to get /any/ Dell laptop with Linux.  At this 
point, they only offer crap hardware, hidden deep within the bowels of their 
site.  Go to dell.com and search for Ubuntu.  You'll find the maximum 
resolution on their Studio 15 Ubuntu offering is like 1440x768.  And it gets 
worse from there.

[...]



From z_mikowski at yahoo.com  Sat Jan  2 12:58:12 2010
From: z_mikowski at yahoo.com (Michael Mikowski)
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 09:58:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] Linux-friendly laptops
In-Reply-To: <167108.29424.qm@web52705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.1.1262451602.16315.mdlug@mdlug.org>
	<167108.29424.qm@web52705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <998197.35719.qm@web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi John:

See my last post: dell.com/ubuntu and select the Studio 15.  Looks quite nice.  $594 default config.  I'd recommend upgrading to the 6 or 9 cell battery, and selecting the WLED option, which brings you around $630.  Nice!

Everything works out of the box, and it will work well with virtually all distros since all the HW is vetted for Ubuntu compatibility. When I got mine last year, I promptly did a clean install of the latest Kubuntu, and have had only minor hiccups since.

I only wish they'd bring back the higher resolution display option (which I got).  However, you might be able to sweet talk a Dell rep into one.  Thankfully, their support staff appear to once again be all US based.

Hope that helps.  Cheers, Mike



----- Original Message ----
From: John Wiersba <jrw32982 at yahoo.com>
To: mdlug at mdlug.org
Sent: Sat, January 2, 2010 12:22:41 PM
Subject: [mdlug] Linux-friendly laptops

When paying with your own money, in addition to a visit to Computer Direct, who would you recommend buying a laptop from, in order to get a reasonably priced (say $700 max), reasonably sturdy, linux-friendly laptop?  I don't mind a Windows license with it so I can set it up dual boot, but I would much prefer XP without all the DRM, though.  I'm thinking ahead for my daughter going to college next fall.  (If it were for me, I'd also require the Ctrl key in the lower left corner, i.e. no Thinkpads).

Thanks!
-- John Wiersba



      
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From skyefire at skyefire.org  Sat Jan  2 15:52:42 2010
From: skyefire at skyefire.org (David McMillan)
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2010 15:52:42 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Samba strangeness
Message-ID: <4B3FB21A.4030006@skyefire.org>


	Two items here.

	I've set up my personal file server (Jaunty) with a shared drive 
mounted locally as /archive1.  This drive is shared across the network 
using Samba.  I can access it from Windows and Linux machines on the 
network, but:

	1:  when trying to transfer large files, the connection just seems to 
stall out -- progress stops entirely.  Yet, transferring a similar-sized 
cluster of smaller files doesn't have the same problem.  Transfers *are* 
slower than I'd expect, but they don't choke.  Anybody know the best way 
to troubleshoot this kind of problem?  I've done lots of SMB shares 
(Windows and Linux) in the past, but this is a new problem for me.

	2:  The really weird one.  Only some files show up to the SMB clients. 
  It doesn't matter if the client is Windows or Linux, so the issue has 
to be on the server end.  For example, the /archive1/images directory 
contains a *lot* of files, and subdirs, but only a relative handful of 
the "root" files show up to SMB clients, and none of the subdirs.  I've 
checked the permissions on the files/subdirs that aren't showing up, and 
they're the same as on the files that *are* showing up.  Even chmod'ing 
all the files to 777 didn't change anything.  Aside from the file access 
permissions, what else could block files/subdirs from showing up to an 
SMB client?
	It's not just a browsing thing, either -- trying to cd directly to 
subdirs that I *know* are there generates a "no such directory" error.




From mat.enders at gmail.com  Sat Jan  2 17:35:26 2010
From: mat.enders at gmail.com (Mathew Enders)
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2010 17:35:26 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Samba strangeness
In-Reply-To: <4B3FB21A.4030006@skyefire.org>
References: <4B3FB21A.4030006@skyefire.org>
Message-ID: <4B3FCA2E.1010802@gmail.com>

David McMillan wrote:
> 	Two items here.
> 
> 	I've set up my personal file server (Jaunty) with a shared drive 
> mounted locally as /archive1.  This drive is shared across the network 
> using Samba.  I can access it from Windows and Linux machines on the 
> network, but:
> 
> 	1:  when trying to transfer large files, the connection just seems to 
> stall out -- progress stops entirely.  Yet, transferring a similar-sized 
> cluster of smaller files doesn't have the same problem.  Transfers *are* 
> slower than I'd expect, but they don't choke.  Anybody know the best way 
> to troubleshoot this kind of problem?  I've done lots of SMB shares 
> (Windows and Linux) in the past, but this is a new problem for me.
> 
> 	2:  The really weird one.  Only some files show up to the SMB clients. 
>   It doesn't matter if the client is Windows or Linux, so the issue has 
> to be on the server end.  For example, the /archive1/images directory 
> contains a *lot* of files, and subdirs, but only a relative handful of 
> the "root" files show up to SMB clients, and none of the subdirs.  I've 
> checked the permissions on the files/subdirs that aren't showing up, and 
> they're the same as on the files that *are* showing up.  Even chmod'ing 
> all the files to 777 didn't change anything.  Aside from the file access 
> permissions, what else could block files/subdirs from showing up to an 
> SMB client?
> 	It's not just a browsing thing, either -- trying to cd directly to 
> subdirs that I *know* are there generates a "no such directory" error.
> 
> 

Check the user and group ownership of the subdirectories.



From davidl at lmert.com  Sat Jan  2 22:50:56 2010
From: davidl at lmert.com (David Lee Lambert)
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2010 22:50:56 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Speaking of audio formats...
Message-ID: <4B401420.2060002@lmert.com>

Today I tried to rip the soundtrack from a DVD (actually, from the bonus 
material: music videos of the songs) using VLC.  "Media -> 
Convert/Save...", specify the right chapter, select an output format;  I 
tried several MPEG variants but kept getting error-messages, then 
selected Ogg Vorbis and got it to work. 

However,  what I obtained is four huge video files that only VLC can 
play;  about 200 MB for a 10-minute song.  Is there some way to 
re-encode just the audio tracks as MP3 or WMA, so I can copy them to a 
portable music player?

Working under Ubuntu Intrepid, but I played one of the files back using 
vlc under Debian Etch.

Also,  has anyone gotten some sort of streaming audio protocol to work 
over an SSH tunnel?

--
DLL


From davidl at lmert.com  Sat Jan  2 23:00:09 2010
From: davidl at lmert.com (David Lee Lambert)
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2010 23:00:09 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Samba strangeness
In-Reply-To: <4B3FCA2E.1010802@gmail.com>
References: <4B3FB21A.4030006@skyefire.org> <4B3FCA2E.1010802@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B401649.5000905@lmert.com>

Mathew Enders wrote:
> David McMillan wrote:
>   
>> 	Two items here.
>>
>> 	I've set up my personal file server (Jaunty) with a shared drive 
>> mounted locally as /archive1.  This drive is shared across the network 
>> using Samba.  I can access it from Windows and Linux machines on the 
>> network, but:
>>
>> 	1:  when trying to transfer large files, the connection just seems to 
>> stall out -- progress stops entirely.  Yet, transferring a similar-sized 
>> cluster of smaller files doesn't have the same problem.  Transfers *are* 
>> slower than I'd expect, but they don't choke.  Anybody know the best way 
>> to troubleshoot this kind of problem?  I've done lots of SMB shares 
>> (Windows and Linux) in the past, but this is a new problem for me.
>>
>>     
I've seen problems like this with a network cable that was frayed, or a 
PCMCIA network card that had been dropped, or mismatched full-duplex 
settings.  Samba has several TCP tuning parameters, which may help.  Do 
SSH, FTP or HTTP file transfers between those systems happen as fast as 
you expect?  SMB seems less resilient over an imperfect network, or with 
a slow host on either end, than other protocols.
>> 	2:  The really weird one.  Only some files show up to the SMB clients. 
>>   It doesn't matter if the client is Windows or Linux, so the issue has 
>> to be on the server end.  For example, the /archive1/images directory 
>> contains a *lot* of files, and subdirs, but only a relative handful of 
>> the "root" files show up to SMB clients, and none of the subdirs.  I've 
>> checked the permissions on the files/subdirs that aren't showing up, and 
>> they're the same as on the files that *are* showing up.  Even chmod'ing 
>> all the files to 777 didn't change anything.  Aside from the file access 
>> permissions, what else could block files/subdirs from showing up to an 
>> SMB client?
>> 	It's not just a browsing thing, either -- trying to cd directly to 
>> subdirs that I *know* are there generates a "no such directory" error.
>>
>>     
Following my suggestion above,  perhaps packets are being dropped from 
directory-listings;  but that's just a wild guess.  Samba has a lot of 
security options;  is there any pattern to the filenames that display 
problems?

--
DLL



From micorral at comcast.net  Sun Jan  3 01:44:19 2010
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 01:44:19 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Speaking of audio formats...
In-Reply-To: <4B401420.2060002@lmert.com>
References: <4B401420.2060002@lmert.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.1001030140450.8090@banana.sluggo.net>

2010-01-02, Monsieur David Lee Lambert a ecrit:
> Today I tried to rip the soundtrack from a DVD (actually, from the bonus
> material: music videos of the songs) using VLC.  "Media ->
> Convert/Save...", specify the right chapter, select an output format;  I
> tried several MPEG variants but kept getting error-messages, then
> selected Ogg Vorbis and got it to work.
>
> However,  what I obtained is four huge video files that only VLC can
> play;  about 200 MB for a 10-minute song.  Is there some way to
> re-encode just the audio tracks as MP3 or WMA, so I can copy them to a
> portable music player?

You could use mplayer to rip the audio portion of the video files as
WAV files, then encode those to MP3 or whatever you want:

mplayer <your_video_file> -ao pcm:file=myfile.wav -vo null

Michael


From carl at carltm.com  Sun Jan  3 05:20:29 2010
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 05:20:29 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Speaking of audio formats...
In-Reply-To: <4B401420.2060002@lmert.com>
References: <4B401420.2060002@lmert.com>
Message-ID: <434e322de6b544f79d927ef9dae1e493.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

David Lee Lambert wrote:
> However,  what I obtained is four huge video files that only VLC can
> play;  about 200 MB for a 10-minute song.  Is there some way to
> re-encode just the audio tracks as MP3 or WMA, so I can copy them to a
> portable music player?

Look at ffmpeg.  It can convert almost any type of multimedia
format into any other format.  And it supports multiple codecs
for use with formats that use encoding.

Try this first to see if you need to use settings other than
the defaults.

  ffmpeg -i video1.??? soundtrack1.mp3

c




From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Sun Jan  3 09:30:24 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2010 09:30:24 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Speaking of audio formats...
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.00.1001030140450.8090@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <4B401420.2060002@lmert.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1001030140450.8090@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <4B40AA00.9060805@gmail.com>

Michael Corral wrote:
> 2010-01-02, Monsieur David Lee Lambert a ecrit:
>> Today I tried to rip the soundtrack from a DVD (actually, from the bonus
>> material: music videos of the songs) using VLC.  "Media ->
>> Convert/Save...", specify the right chapter, select an output format;  I
>> tried several MPEG variants but kept getting error-messages, then
>> selected Ogg Vorbis and got it to work.
>>
>> However,  what I obtained is four huge video files that only VLC can
>> play;  about 200 MB for a 10-minute song.  Is there some way to
>> re-encode just the audio tracks as MP3 or WMA, so I can copy them to a
>> portable music player?
> 
> You could use mplayer to rip the audio portion of the video files as
> WAV files, then encode those to MP3 or whatever you want:
> 
> mplayer <your_video_file> -ao pcm:file=myfile.wav -vo null

I would suggest FLAC (LOSSLESS compression, as opposed to the
rather lossy compression of MP3), since a lot of digital audio
players DO recognize and play both .ogg and .flac files.



From brian at dangerbacon.com  Sun Jan  3 11:33:30 2010
From: brian at dangerbacon.com (Brian)
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 11:33:30 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Speaking of audio formats...
In-Reply-To: <6f64e9541001030829w11214ac5h1df30226cdf71a98@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B401420.2060002@lmert.com>
	<6f64e9541001030829w11214ac5h1df30226cdf71a98@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6f64e9541001030833h6063a4a4t39d66f25ec39c8b4@mail.gmail.com>

It kinda sounds to me like you encoded a 5 channel surround sound track.
Most lossy formats only support a left and right channel.  It also could be
24 bit audio instead of 16.  These would both cause the huge file size and
the lack of support by other codecs.

On Jan 2, 2010 11:00 PM, "David Lee Lambert" <davidl at lmert.com> wrote:

Today I tried to rip the soundtrack from a DVD (actually, from the bonus
material: music videos of the songs) using VLC.  "Media ->
Convert/Save...", specify the right chapter, select an output format;  I
tried several MPEG variants but kept getting error-messages, then
selected Ogg Vorbis and got it to work.

However,  what I obtained is four huge video files that only VLC can
play;  about 200 MB for a 10-minute song.  Is there some way to
re-encode just the audio tracks as MP3 or WMA, so I can copy them to a
portable music player?

Working under Ubuntu Intrepid, but I played one of the files back using
vlc under Debian Etch.

Also,  has anyone gotten some sort of streaming audio protocol to work
over an SSH tunnel?

--
DLL
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From skyefire at skyefire.org  Sun Jan  3 12:00:28 2010
From: skyefire at skyefire.org (David McMillan)
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2010 12:00:28 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Samba strangeness
In-Reply-To: <4B401649.5000905@lmert.com>
References: <4B3FB21A.4030006@skyefire.org> <4B3FCA2E.1010802@gmail.com>
	<4B401649.5000905@lmert.com>
Message-ID: <4B40CD2C.5060201@skyefire.org>

David Lee Lambert wrote:
> Mathew Enders wrote:
>> David McMillan wrote:
>>   
>>> 	Two items here.
>>>
>>> 	I've set up my personal file server (Jaunty) with a shared drive 
>>> mounted locally as /archive1.  This drive is shared across the network 
>>> using Samba.  I can access it from Windows and Linux machines on the 
>>> network, but:
>>>
>>> 	1:  when trying to transfer large files, the connection just seems to 
>>> stall out -- progress stops entirely.  Yet, transferring a similar-sized 
>>> cluster of smaller files doesn't have the same problem.  Transfers *are* 
>>> slower than I'd expect, but they don't choke.  Anybody know the best way 
>>> to troubleshoot this kind of problem?  I've done lots of SMB shares 
>>> (Windows and Linux) in the past, but this is a new problem for me.
>>>
>>>     
> I've seen problems like this with a network cable that was frayed, or a 
> PCMCIA network card that had been dropped, or mismatched full-duplex 
> settings.  Samba has several TCP tuning parameters, which may help.  Do 
> SSH, FTP or HTTP file transfers between those systems happen as fast as 
> you expect?  SMB seems less resilient over an imperfect network, or with 
> a slow host on either end, than other protocols.
>>> 	2:  The really weird one.  Only some files show up to the SMB clients. 
>>>   It doesn't matter if the client is Windows or Linux, so the issue has 
>>> to be on the server end.  For example, the /archive1/images directory 
>>> contains a *lot* of files, and subdirs, but only a relative handful of 
>>> the "root" files show up to SMB clients, and none of the subdirs.  I've 
>>> checked the permissions on the files/subdirs that aren't showing up, and 
>>> they're the same as on the files that *are* showing up.  Even chmod'ing 
>>> all the files to 777 didn't change anything.  Aside from the file access 
>>> permissions, what else could block files/subdirs from showing up to an 
>>> SMB client?
>>> 	It's not just a browsing thing, either -- trying to cd directly to 
>>> subdirs that I *know* are there generates a "no such directory" error.
>>>
>>>     
> Following my suggestion above,  perhaps packets are being dropped from 
> directory-listings;  but that's just a wild guess.  Samba has a lot of 
> security options;  is there any pattern to the filenames that display 
> problems?

	Not as far as I can tell -- I've checked the access permissions on all 
of them, and even gone so far as to do a chmod -R 777 on the entire 
drive just to see what would happen.  No dice.  The files that *do* show 
run the name gamut from 0-9 through a-z... hm.  It just hit me that all 
of the files I *can* see remotely start with either a number, a 
lowercase letter, or an underscore.  Nothing that starts with a capital 
letter shows up.
	...okay, I think I found it.  Don't know why it happened this way, but 
here goes:
	Under /archive1, I had both an 'Images' and an 'images' subdir (due to 
a typo a while back that I hadn't got around to cleaning up).  'Images' 
didn't have any subdirs, and only had a few files.  Both directories 
showed up to remote clients, but after some more detailed digging, it 
looks like, somehow, when I cd'd to 'images', I was actually ending up 
in 'Images'.  I can see why Windows might fail to see the difference 
between /archive1/images and /archive1/Images, and why it might default 
to the capitalized directory name, but why would even Linux clients do 
it?  Does Samba not differentiate between upper- and lower-case names?
	Anyway, moving all the images into one 'images' folder and deleting the 
extra one fixed the entire issue.

	Thanks!



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sun Jan  3 13:18:06 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 13:18:06 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Samba strangeness
In-Reply-To: <4B40CD2C.5060201@skyefire.org>
References: <4B3FB21A.4030006@skyefire.org> <4B3FCA2E.1010802@gmail.com>
	<4B401649.5000905@lmert.com> <4B40CD2C.5060201@skyefire.org>
Message-ID: <b02c40e91001031018m73f80104h47657814ce2ca057@mail.gmail.com>

Because Samba has to suppress case differences over SMB for Windows.
It probably doesn't differentiate between clients.

I suspect Wine has similar issues with Windows apps when there are two
files in the same location whose names differ by case only.  It's
annoying to deal with when you try to extract an update out of a zip
file that is intended to overwrite existing files in a directory but
the name cases differ.

On 1/3/10, David McMillan <skyefire at skyefire.org> wrote:
> David Lee Lambert wrote:
>> Mathew Enders wrote:
>>> David McMillan wrote:
>>>
>>>> 	Two items here.
>>>>
>>>> 	I've set up my personal file server (Jaunty) with a shared drive
>>>> mounted locally as /archive1.  This drive is shared across the network
>>>> using Samba.  I can access it from Windows and Linux machines on the
>>>> network, but:
>>>>
>>>> 	1:  when trying to transfer large files, the connection just seems to
>>>> stall out -- progress stops entirely.  Yet, transferring a similar-sized
>>>>
>>>> cluster of smaller files doesn't have the same problem.  Transfers *are*
>>>>
>>>> slower than I'd expect, but they don't choke.  Anybody know the best way
>>>>
>>>> to troubleshoot this kind of problem?  I've done lots of SMB shares
>>>> (Windows and Linux) in the past, but this is a new problem for me.
>>>>
>>>>
>> I've seen problems like this with a network cable that was frayed, or a
>> PCMCIA network card that had been dropped, or mismatched full-duplex
>> settings.  Samba has several TCP tuning parameters, which may help.  Do
>> SSH, FTP or HTTP file transfers between those systems happen as fast as
>> you expect?  SMB seems less resilient over an imperfect network, or with
>> a slow host on either end, than other protocols.
>>>> 	2:  The really weird one.  Only some files show up to the SMB clients.
>>>>   It doesn't matter if the client is Windows or Linux, so the issue has
>>>> to be on the server end.  For example, the /archive1/images directory
>>>> contains a *lot* of files, and subdirs, but only a relative handful of
>>>> the "root" files show up to SMB clients, and none of the subdirs.  I've
>>>> checked the permissions on the files/subdirs that aren't showing up, and
>>>>
>>>> they're the same as on the files that *are* showing up.  Even chmod'ing
>>>> all the files to 777 didn't change anything.  Aside from the file access
>>>>
>>>> permissions, what else could block files/subdirs from showing up to an
>>>> SMB client?
>>>> 	It's not just a browsing thing, either -- trying to cd directly to
>>>> subdirs that I *know* are there generates a "no such directory" error.
>>>>
>>>>
>> Following my suggestion above,  perhaps packets are being dropped from
>> directory-listings;  but that's just a wild guess.  Samba has a lot of
>> security options;  is there any pattern to the filenames that display
>> problems?
>
> 	Not as far as I can tell -- I've checked the access permissions on all
> of them, and even gone so far as to do a chmod -R 777 on the entire
> drive just to see what would happen.  No dice.  The files that *do* show
> run the name gamut from 0-9 through a-z... hm.  It just hit me that all
> of the files I *can* see remotely start with either a number, a
> lowercase letter, or an underscore.  Nothing that starts with a capital
> letter shows up.
> 	...okay, I think I found it.  Don't know why it happened this way, but
> here goes:
> 	Under /archive1, I had both an 'Images' and an 'images' subdir (due to
> a typo a while back that I hadn't got around to cleaning up).  'Images'
> didn't have any subdirs, and only had a few files.  Both directories
> showed up to remote clients, but after some more detailed digging, it
> looks like, somehow, when I cd'd to 'images', I was actually ending up
> in 'Images'.  I can see why Windows might fail to see the difference
> between /archive1/images and /archive1/Images, and why it might default
> to the capitalized directory name, but why would even Linux clients do
> it?  Does Samba not differentiate between upper- and lower-case names?
> 	Anyway, moving all the images into one 'images' folder and deleting the
> extra one fixed the entire issue.
>
> 	Thanks!
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From danno at umich.edu  Sun Jan  3 16:52:57 2010
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 16:52:57 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Speaking of audio formats...
In-Reply-To: <4B401420.2060002@lmert.com>
References: <4B401420.2060002@lmert.com>
Message-ID: <20100103215257.GA66246@maniac.deathstar.org>

it's tricky to rip DVDs from their native VOB files ; they are typically
not broken up into chapters or tracks, just all munged together
into a few huge VOB files.  So you can't just easily grab the audio
track out of the files you want from the command line.

My simplest suggestion is to use some standard dvd-ripper tool, as
if you wanted the audio AND video.  Then extract the audio you want
from the result.  I'd choose a crappy video codec (eg, xvid over
h.264) and low video framerate and bitrate, and maybe downscale the
video radically, which ought to result in fast video encoding.

Simplest to choose the audio format you want during this transcoding
process. 

To extract the audio from an avi file (or any other format your ffmpeg supports), you can use:

 ffmpeg -i foo.avi -acodec copy audiofile

If you were stuck with transcoding, you could

 ffmpeg -i foo.avi -acodec libmp3lame -ab 192 audiofile

I use Handbrake to do this on my mac but handbrake is available for
linux too.  I think on any platform but mac you need to de-css the DVD
first.  I'm sure there are other tools on linux for this.

The most recent version only does AAC audio, but previous versions
will do MP3.

Aaron K is right that in general a lossless format like flac is better,
all things being equal.  Note that the source material on a DVD is already 
lossy, though.  Transcoding it will degrade the quality, so there may be
a point in doing flac, but I probably wouldn't bother; if you want the best
quality find the songs on a CD.  

Of course, the simplest solution to your problem probably involves bittorrent.

re: streaming, there's no reason any tcp-based audio streaming protocol
won't work over an ssh tunnel.  You may need to increase buffering.

A plain ssh tunnel won't forward UDP.  You can work around this, eg:
  http://www.qcnetwork.com/vince/doc/divers/udp_over_ssh_tunnel.html

danno


On Sat, Jan 02, 2010 at 10:50:56PM -0500, David Lee Lambert wrote:
> Today I tried to rip the soundtrack from a DVD (actually, from the bonus 
> material: music videos of the songs) using VLC.  "Media -> 
> Convert/Save...", specify the right chapter, select an output format;  I 
> tried several MPEG variants but kept getting error-messages, then 
> selected Ogg Vorbis and got it to work. 
> 
> However,  what I obtained is four huge video files that only VLC can 
> play;  about 200 MB for a 10-minute song.  Is there some way to 
> re-encode just the audio tracks as MP3 or WMA, so I can copy them to a 
> portable music player?
> 
> Working under Ubuntu Intrepid, but I played one of the files back using 
> vlc under Debian Etch.
> 
> Also,  has anyone gotten some sort of streaming audio protocol to work 
> over an SSH tunnel?
> 
> --
> DLL
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From davidl at lmert.com  Sun Jan  3 18:06:28 2010
From: davidl at lmert.com (David Lee Lambert)
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2010 18:06:28 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Speaking of audio formats...
In-Reply-To: <434e322de6b544f79d927ef9dae1e493.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
References: <4B401420.2060002@lmert.com>
	<434e322de6b544f79d927ef9dae1e493.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <4B4122F4.6080502@lmert.com>

Carl T. Miller wrote:
> Look at ffmpeg.  It can convert almost any type of multimedia
> format into any other format.  And it supports multiple codecs
> for use with formats that use encoding.
>
> Try this first to see if you need to use settings other than
> the defaults.
>
>   ffmpeg -i video1.??? soundtrack1.mp3
>   
Thanks,  that's exactly what I needed. 

Responding to Aaron's suggestion to use FLAC:  I wanted to put one of 
the songs on my son's baby-proof portable music player,  which only 
accepts MP3 and WMA.  It works fine now.


--
DLL


From jrw32982 at yahoo.com  Sun Jan  3 18:16:10 2010
From: jrw32982 at yahoo.com (John Wiersba)
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 15:16:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] Linux-friendly laptops
In-Reply-To: <mailman.22.1262491229.4709.mdlug@mdlug.org>
References: <mailman.22.1262491229.4709.mdlug@mdlug.org>
Message-ID: <620113.80390.qm@web52708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

>From the pictures I've seen (e.g. http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3708&review=ThinkPad+T61), the Thinkpad has a Fn key in the lower left corner.  The Ctrl key is next to it, but not in the corner.  Otherwise, Thinkpads sound like very nice machines indeed.  Any other suggestions besides a Thinkpad?


Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2010 12:46:28 -0500
From: Garry Stahl <tesral at wowway.com>
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Linux-friendly laptops
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Message-ID: <4B3F8674.8080704 at wowway.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Think pads have the ctrl in the lower left.  I have a T-61.  Thinkpad is
a very Linux friendly machine too.  Tossing them is tossing one of your
best choices.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.



      


From tesral at wowway.com  Sun Jan  3 18:23:25 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2010 18:23:25 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Linux-friendly laptops
In-Reply-To: <620113.80390.qm@web52708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.22.1262491229.4709.mdlug@mdlug.org>
	<620113.80390.qm@web52708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4B4126ED.2000200@wowway.com>

John Wiersba wrote:
> >From the pictures I've seen (e.g. http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3708&review=ThinkPad+T61), the Thinkpad has a Fn key in the lower left corner.  The Ctrl key is next to it, but not in the corner.  Otherwise, Thinkpads sound like very nice machines indeed.  Any other suggestions besides a Thinkpad?
>   


It's THAT big an issue?  I use a standard keyboard and switch to that
keyboard all the time.  My brain seems flexible enough to handle it.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? -Mohandas K. Gandhi  
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Mon Jan  4 10:55:26 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 07:55:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] linux-friendly store in metro area
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791001011210n71ded6a2rfe6783f322fa9a14@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4145b6791001011210n71ded6a2rfe6783f322fa9a14@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <995425.77305.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Micro center has some for even 200.00





________________________________
From: Robert Citek <robert.citek at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Fri, January 1, 2010 3:10:42 PM
Subject: [mdlug] linux-friendly store in metro area

I'm looking to purchase a new/refurbished machine for running Linux.
I recall several months ago someone mentioning a store in the Ann
Arbor/Detroit metro area that was either exclusively linux or with a
heavy linux emphasis.  What was the name of that store and where is it
located?

Regards,
- Robert
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      


From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Mon Jan  4 20:21:36 2010
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net)
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 20:21:36 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Canonical, Ubuntu, and Partnet Agreement
Message-ID: <4B429420.6060904@bellsouth.net>

All,

I'm seeking opinions regarding experience (good, bad, or indifferent)
with Canonical, Inc. (http://www.canonical.com/) especially with regards 
to their partnership agreement and relation to Ubuntu.

TIA,
--
Bob


From gib at juno.com  Tue Jan  5 08:13:27 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 13:13:27 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] Record our MDLUG meetings and webcast/podcast them
Message-ID: <20100105.081327.25538.1@webmail02.vgs.untd.com>

 
While looking at a Ubuntu Local Group email concerning classes for Penguicon, I started thinking those classes should be recorded. I replied to the email with the suggestion. 
Then I thought, gee, maybe we can record our MDLUG meetings and webcast/podcast them.  This topic came up before and we had issues with the room lighting and such. 
But also we never say anything worth recording.  Maybe we can do a "un-meeting", select four topics from a list then discuss each of the four topics for 15 minutes for a total of an hour.
So, which topics would we be able to find to fill up 15 minutes of interesting recordings?
Can we try this in our meeting a few times then maybe do this again at Penguicon?
Can we also find software to webast and whiteboard . . . hey that would make an interesting 15 minute discussion.
____________________________________________________________
Diet Help
Cheap Diet Help Tips. Click here.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=holulP0e8mtBuYPZtXSP9QAAJz07QkQODMrtXujsdlflQzfUAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYQAAAAAA=


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Tue Jan  5 08:58:29 2010
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 08:58:29 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Care and feeding of SATA drives
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441D89C@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>


 Back in late July I picked up a ~1TB SATA drive for my system,
primarily intended to store HDV from a new camcorder. Just before the
holidays I began to have problems accessing it, which got progressively
worse until I was rarely able to use it at all. ATA errors and so forth.
I did manage to back up the critical data to another drive, but I
figured I'd need to call in the warranty. Still, SMART showed no drive
problems, even in the extended offline test.

 Before trying to exchange it I opened up the case, replaced the SATA
cable, and reseated the power connector. And... presto. There have been
no problems for over a week now. I'm pretty happy about that. I'll keep
an eye on it for a time, but it really seems to be fixed at this point.

 I can't figure out what could happen to make a SATA cable and/or power
cable to go bad in six months, but that appears to have been the case.
Moral of the story: make very sure to replace/reseat cables *first* when
hardware trouble is suspected.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                     (313) 227-2317

   "I can't think of a worse way to wake up than discovering
                my head is in a jar." - Tagon
  "Try waking up with your head in a jar and having deja-vu."
                       - Der Trihs.
    - Schlock Mercenary, http://www.schlockmercenary.com/

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Tue Jan  5 09:23:04 2010
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 09:23:04 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Gotchas for upgrading Ubuntu to 9.10
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441D8AF@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>


 First off, I discovered that I needed to free up space in my root
partition to even attempt the upgrade. I ended up cleaning up the root
partition, but that wasn't enough. Next I copied it to a (larger) spare
partition, and diddling GRUB to boot from the copy. Then I upgraded
*that* partition. Things failed, however - the install CD couldn't see
my disks. But I'm getting ahead of myself.

 The two main drives were identical and, once upon a time, were part of
a RAID pair. Apparently some config information lingered on the drives
from that time, and this confused the RAID support in Ubuntu 9.10. I had
to run "sudo apt-get remove dmraid" to work around this. (Apparently
there's a way to clear the information from the disks - "dmraid -E" -
but I found that out later.) The install CD still failed to format or
otherwise work with the drives, though at least it could now see them.

 So, I copied the root partition, as I said. But there was a bug in
9.04's Grub2 config scripts - if it found two copies of 9.04 (an
admittedly unusual setup), the configuration would be generated
incorrectly, and it would always boot off the first partition, not the
copy, no matter what entry you picked. I had to learn about Grub2 and
generate a custom boot stanza to finally be able to boot up the copy of
9.04.

 Then I ran an in-place upgrade from 9.04 to 9.10. That worked... but it
wouldn't boot properly. I had to get to a recovery console, and remove
dmraid as detailed above. After that, it worked.

 Well, almost. It wouldn't mount the swap partitions. I discovered that
the UUIDs of the swap partitions had changed in the upgrade, but the
fstab had not been updated. I had to boot into 9.04, edit the 9.10 fstab
from there, and then I could *finally* boot into 9.10. Oy.

 Thankfully, after all that, things have been working fine. I'm pleased
with the out-of-the-box VDPAU support, and so forth. But man, that was a
painful upgrade.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                    (313) 227-2317

 Isn't it funny how Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson blame the
 actions of fanatical religious zealots on 'secular' groups?

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Tue Jan  5 10:27:53 2010
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 10:27:53 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Why I like Linux - bulk DV encoding
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441D8E0@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>


 We have a bunch of Digital8 tapes from our old camcorder - basically DV
video on Hi8 tapes. Over the holidays I finally got the gumption to
extract and convert them to something more modern. Fortunately, Linux is
ideal for this sort of thing.

 Using 'dvgrab', I can just hook the camcorder up via Firewire. I don't
even need to manually rewind the tapes before capturing; dvgrab has a
"-rewind" command that takes care of that. The command I've settled on
is:

 dvgrab -rewind -autosplit=28800 -timestamp dv-

 The 'autosplit' generates a new file if there's a gap of 8 hours or
longer between clips, and the 'timestamp' flag incorporates the time and
date into the filename. I just swap tapes every so often and it grabs
the video and saves it for me.

 Then, I used the 'h264enc' script to experiment with the best way to
convert the video to H264. I decided to deinterlace the video, and used
the 'ps3hq' (Playstation 3 High Quality) preset otherwise, so I could
play the files easily on our big TV via the PS3. Happily, the h264enc
has an option to write out its mencoder commands to a file, so I could
incorporate them into my own script with only slight editing of the
input and output filenames.

 Once I had a script that would encode a single file properly, I wrote a
second, wrapper script that would call the encoding script repeatedly
for all DV files in a given directory. (BTW, DV is not a well-compressed
codec - the H264 files are about 1/13th the size of the DV versions, and
nearly indistinguishable in quality.) Encoding the video takes a while -
even on an Athlon 64 X2 Windsor 5600+ (dual-core, 2.8GHz), it processes
at around 10fps - but is also 'fire and forget'.

 I plan on giving the old tapes to my parents to store at their house
for an offsite back-up. I'll keep the H264 files on my hard drive here,
and also back them up to DVD. Burned DVDs are hardly a reliable backup
mechanism, of course, but there's the 'par2' utility, which generates
redundant parity information for files. I plan on burning the DVDs with
~15% redundancy, so that they'll need to be fairly damaged/aged before
recovery is impossible.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                                (313)
227-2317

 "Deism has always struck me as rather pointless. A kind of religion
lite
  for people who want to try and be rational but are unable to let go of
       superstition entirely. It is a nicotine patch for the soul."
                            - Matt Penfold

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.



From fulner at alumni.nmu.edu  Tue Jan  5 17:26:19 2010
From: fulner at alumni.nmu.edu (Robert Jim Fulner)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 17:26:19 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source Development of new "Alternate Reality" product
Message-ID: <c768576f1001051426g6cb39162q220a133222f80235@mail.gmail.com>

OK,

So this just seems really weird to me, but the company I work for, Parrot,
Inc., is releasing a new "Alternative Reality Quadaracopter" called the
DRONE. Its some kind of toy/video game something that you can control from
an iPhone or iPod Touch.

I thought you all might be interested in it because they now have available
an Open SDK to allow other to make new "video games" for it. This certain I
would consider a whole new concept in the gaming word, one I don't pretend
to understand. But I thought you all might be interested in it.

http://www.parrot.com/parrot-ar-drone/en/project



**
--
Jim Fulner
The DetroitLibertyPenguin
Promoting Free Minds, Free Markets and Free Software
*and whenever possible Free Beer
*"For as long as one of your brothers is not free, none of you are free"
248-765-7458 (cell)
http://www.facebook.com/jim.fulner


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Tue Jan  5 19:06:24 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 19:06:24 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source Development of new "Alternate Reality"
	product
In-Reply-To: <c768576f1001051426g6cb39162q220a133222f80235@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c768576f1001051426g6cb39162q220a133222f80235@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e91001051606x2f57dd01lfec76f42b2ffdaea@mail.gmail.com>

Might be worth posting to the usual news outlets:

http://www.linuxdevices.com
http://lxer.com
http://www.linuxtoday.com

On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 5:26 PM, Robert Jim Fulner <fulner at alumni.nmu.edu> wrote:
> OK,
>
> So this just seems really weird to me, but the company I work for, Parrot,
> Inc., is releasing a new "Alternative Reality Quadaracopter" called the
> DRONE. Its some kind of toy/video game something that you can control from
> an iPhone or iPod Touch.
>
> I thought you all might be interested in it because they now have available
> an Open SDK to allow other to make new "video games" for it. This certain I
> would consider a whole new concept in the gaming word, one I don't pretend
> to understand. But I thought you all might be interested in it.
>
> http://www.parrot.com/parrot-ar-drone/en/project


From drew4096 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 11 05:11:27 2010
From: drew4096 at gmail.com (Drew)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 05:11:27 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>

I find myself with a lot of data to archive and back up - 120 GB of 
it, with possibly more to come at a
later date - and am considering DVDs and squashfs. Current DVD cost 
weighs in at 18 cents a disk
(Office Max), which is under 4 cents a gigabyte, which is less than 
half the cost of current terabyte
range hard drives as far as I know.

Still, before committing resources to this I thought it a good idea 
to consult the list on a couple of things.

Squashfs seems to give me compression down to from 66% to 77% of 
original size with most of the
files being PDFs. I had been hoping for something a bit better. Is 
there a way to specify better compression
methods? Is there a better filesystem to use? Or would I be better 
off using something like gzip or bz2?
I'd like to be able to mount these as loop devices.

Also, can an entire DVD be a squashfs filesystem? Or does it have to 
be wrapped in an iso?

----

- Drew.



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Jan 11 01:05:53 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 01:05:53 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e91001102205x7bee6499h3f398e139cd59427@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 5:11 AM, Drew <drew4096 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Squashfs seems to give me compression down to from 66% to 77% of
> original size with most of the
> files being PDFs. I had been hoping for something a bit better. Is
> there a way to specify better compression
> methods? Is there a better filesystem to use? Or would I be better
> off using something like gzip or bz2?
> I'd like to be able to mount these as loop devices.
>
> Also, can an entire DVD be a squashfs filesystem? Or does it have to
> be wrapped in an iso?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squashfs
http://tldp.org/HOWTO/SquashFS-HOWTO/mksqoverview.html#mksqoptions

Compression options are limited to gzip or lzma.

If you use file-based approach with gzip or bz2, use a separate file
for each source file.  Tar+anything is really slow for browsing as the
entire tar has to be extracted before opening.  I prefer 7zip for
large numbers of files in a single archive as it it very fast for
opening and browsing but it doesn't handle *nix file permissions.

Also consider damage potential.  You are likely to lose more data with
a damaged DVD using a single large archive or squashfs volume than
individual files.  Individual files are much easier to recover.  A
single file or filesytem will be somewhat more space efficient due to
less overhead (a single compression header instead of one for each
archive file).

Individual files also make it easier to incrementally add to the DVD.


From z_mikowski at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 11 01:27:27 2010
From: z_mikowski at yahoo.com (Michael Mikowski)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 22:27:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <781223.6150.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

At present pricing, I'd vote to buy a 1TB HD.  Recovery, access, and reliability would be much better, IMO.

Cheers, Mike




----- Original Message ----
From: Drew <drew4096 at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Mon, January 11, 2010 2:11:27 AM
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving

I find myself with a lot of data to archive and back up - 120 GB of 
it, with possibly more to come at a
later date - and am considering DVDs and squashfs. Current DVD cost 
weighs in at 18 cents a disk
(Office Max), which is under 4 cents a gigabyte, which is less than 
half the cost of current terabyte
range hard drives as far as I know.

Still, before committing resources to this I thought it a good idea 
to consult the list on a couple of things.

Squashfs seems to give me compression down to from 66% to 77% of 
original size with most of the
files being PDFs. I had been hoping for something a bit better. Is 
there a way to specify better compression
methods? Is there a better filesystem to use? Or would I be better 
off using something like gzip or bz2?
I'd like to be able to mount these as loop devices.

Also, can an entire DVD be a squashfs filesystem? Or does it have to 
be wrapped in an iso?

----

- Drew.

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 11 02:17:54 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 02:17:54 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B4AD0A2.10606@gmail.com>

Drew wrote:
> I find myself with a lot of data to archive and back up - 120 GB of 
> it, with possibly more to come at a
> later date - and am considering DVDs and squashfs. Current DVD cost 
> weighs in at 18 cents a disk
> (Office Max), which is under 4 cents a gigabyte, which is less than 
> half the cost of current terabyte
> range hard drives as far as I know.
> 
> Still, before committing resources to this I thought it a good idea 
> to consult the list on a couple of things.
> 
> Squashfs seems to give me compression down to from 66% to 77% of 
> original size with most of the
> files being PDFs. I had been hoping for something a bit better. Is 
> there a way to specify better compression
> methods? Is there a better filesystem to use? Or would I be better 
> off using something like gzip or bz2?
> I'd like to be able to mount these as loop devices.
> 
> Also, can an entire DVD be a squashfs filesystem? Or does it have to 
> be wrapped in an iso?

When ARCHIVING, the last thing you want is compression.
a 1-bit error can cause horrendous data loss.

And with burning DVD's... burning a DVD is literally
very heat-intensive (laser on it's highest setting).
Burning a bunch of DVD's, one after another, is a sure
way to shorten the lifespan of you DVD drive.

Buy a 250 - 500 GB disk (I find 2.5" laptop drives to
be the most convenient form factor for this) and put
it in an external USB case (E-sata is more expensive,
and with archives, controlling costs tends to be more
important than speed).


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 11 02:19:00 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 02:19:00 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <781223.6150.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
	<781223.6150.qm@web53302.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4B4AD0E4.30107@gmail.com>

Michael Mikowski wrote:
> At present pricing, I'd vote to buy a 1TB HD.  Recovery, access, and reliability would be much better, IMO.
> 

Yep.  HD's don't get scratched like DVD's.



From john_re at fastmail.us  Mon Jan 11 07:13:25 2010
From: john_re at fastmail.us (giovanni_re)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 04:13:25 -0800
Subject: [mdlug] TONIGHT Join 5-6P Mon 11th - 1st Evening Meeting test IRC &
 VOIP online Linux at BerkeleyTIP-Global - for forwarding
Message-ID: <1263212005.4762.1354001243@webmail.messagingengine.com>

You're invited to the first test of the Global Linux bimonthly evening
meetings, BerkeleyTIP-Global.  :)

Join in tonight, Monday Jan 11, 5-6P Pacific, 8-9P Eastern, = Tues Jan
12 1A-2A UTC.
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/schedule

On #berkeleytip on irc.freenode.net,
& on voip - whatever is working - try btip server first.
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/remote-attendance

This will be an online only meeting - no in person meeting at UCB.

Hot topics:  Community Leadership Summit review of interesting sessions,
Spring 2010 efforts for UCB & all UC's & all college activities,
Upcoming KDE conference end of next week, for 1 week, in Los Angeles.

What do _you_ want to discuss?

==
Some people have asked for an evening meeting, because: a) they can't
make weekend meetings, b) they want more BTIP-Global. ;)

So, this will be a test, everyone invited, to see if we can make this
work.

==  BerkeleyTIP-Global is the Global All Free SW HW & Culture meeting
online via VOIP.
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/

Join the global mailing list, say "hi", & what you're interested in. :)
http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal

For Forwarding: You are invited to forward this announcement wherever it
might be appreciated.


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Mon Jan 11 11:15:10 2010
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:15:10 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441DF20@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Drew

> I find myself with a lot of data to archive and back up - 120 GB of
it, with possibly more to
> come at a later date - and am considering DVDs and squashfs.

 Burned optical media has a less-than-stellar reputation for reliability
in my experience.
Hard drives are generally held to be considerably more reliable,
long-term. If you wish to
use DVD media, however, see here:

 http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/12/11/1714232

 This article covers various brands of optical media and their projected
reliability.

> Is there a way to specify better compression methods? Is there a
better filesystem to use?
> Or would I be better off using something like gzip or bz2? I'd like to
be able to mount
> these as loop devices.

 What compression works best depends critically on the type of data
being compressed. I
suggest trying some different schemes and seeing what works best.
However, I'm not sure that
you can count on being able to loopback-mount gzipped files, while
squashfs is designed for
that. And already-compressed files (and PDFs usually have some internal
compression) don't
compress all that well, though.

 As others have noted, though, compression impacts reliability. Small
errors can be
catastrophic, especially when all the files are globbed into one big
block - if you can't
recover the whole package, you potentially lose multiple files.

 One solution is to add some redundancy... but that means more data to
store. The 'par2'
utility allows you to add redundancy in a controlled manner. Given a
partially-readable
file and the par2 redundancy files, you should be able to recover the
entire file...
so long as the damage isn't too severe.

> Also, can an entire DVD be a squashfs filesystem? Or does it have to
> be wrapped in an iso?

Based on my understanding, to write onto optical media needs a
filesystem format specifically
designed for that. So, either iso9660 or UDF.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                                  (313)
227-2317

 "A Georgia State University study shows that U.S. senators have an
uncanny
  knack for picking stocks that outpace the overall market. Professor
Alan
   Ziobrowski's analysis of senators' financial disclosure data found
that
   over a period of six years, the lawmakers outperformed the market by
12
      percent." - http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1751162

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.



From awilliam at opengroupware.us  Mon Jan 11 11:43:04 2010
From: awilliam at opengroupware.us (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:43:04 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1263228184.3247.9.camel@linux-m3mt>

On Mon, 2010-01-11 at 05:11 -0500, Drew wrote:
> I find myself with a lot of data to archive and back up - 120 GB of 
> it, with possibly more to come at a
> later date - and am considering DVDs and squashfs. Current DVD cost 
> weighs in at 18 cents a disk
> (Office Max), which is under 4 cents a gigabyte, which is less than 
> half the cost of current terabyte
> range hard drives as far as I know.

If you care about your data either (a) don't backup to DVD or (b) make 
multiple copies of each disc.

<quote source="WMOGAG">
The longevity of a burned CD is strongly influenced by environmental
factors. CDs used for backup should always be stored in clean jewel
cases [not sleeves!] at a reasonably constant 10?C - 15?C and 20% - 50%
relative humidity; even relatively brief periods of higher temperatures
can accelerate the aging of the media. Exposure to UV light also rapidly
decomposes the CD media; media should be stored in a dark place away
from sunlight. In general, optical media is a very poor choice as a
backup solution; claims that burned CDs should last for decades are
highly suspect.
</quote>

Tape is cheap, tape is reliable... buy a tape drive.

> Squashfs seems to give me compression down to from 66% to 77% of 
> original size with most of the
> files being PDFs. I had been hoping for something a bit better. Is 
> there a way to specify better compression
> methods? Is there a better filesystem to use? Or would I be better 
> off using something like gzip or bz2?
> I'd like to be able to mount these as loop devices.

PDFs are usually pre-compressed (internally).  I doubt anything is going
to give you much better than ~50% (you are lucky to be getting the rates
you are) except at very high CPU cost.

> Also, can an entire DVD be a squashfs filesystem? Or does it have to 
> be wrapped in an iso?

To be readable my anything 'normal' it must be an ISO.

-- 
OpenGroupware developer: awilliam at whitemice.org
<http://whitemiceconsulting.blogspot.com/>
OpenGroupare & Cyrus IMAPd documenation @
<http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/whitemice/wmogag/file_view>



From driveray at ameritech.net  Mon Jan 11 14:35:05 2010
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 14:35:05 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441DF20@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441DF20@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <4B4B7D69.1010702@ameritech.net>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>> From: Drew
> 
>> Also, can an entire DVD be a squashfs filesystem? Or does it have to
>> be wrapped in an iso?
> 
> Based on my understanding, to write onto optical media needs a
> filesystem format specifically
> designed for that. So, either iso9660 or UDF.
> 
>  Sincerely,
> 
>  Ray Ingles                                                  (313)
> 227-2317

Just for grims, mostly, I have tinkered with writing other formats to
optical media, and found it can work. The command line cdrecord, or the
later wodim, will write any binary blob you feed it to the media without
complaint. You can do the same with K3b. It will give you stern
warnings, but let you proceed if you insist that you know what you are
doing.

I have written ext3 and ntfs filesystems to DVD in this manner.

Here is a procedure I used for creating a 4GB encrypted data DVD:

1. Using K3B create a standard ISO of the filesystem.

2. Using cp make a copy of this ISO. This creates a binary file exactly
the right size to contain the encrypted ISO.
  $ cp  data.iso crypt.iso

3. Link the second ISO to a loopback device, with encryption:
  $ losetup -e blowfish256 /dev/loop7 crypt.iso
  Password: ************************

4. Write data.iso to crypt.iso through the encrypted loop device.
  $ dd if=data.iso of=/dev/loop7

5. After writing completes, disconnect the loop device.
  $ losetup -d /dev/loop7

6. Test your encrypted ISO:
  $ mount -o loop,encryption=blowfish256 crypt.iso mnt
  Password: *************************

7. Once you are sure certain that the encrypted ISO works use K3B to
write it to your media. As mentioned K3B will object, but should allow
you to do it.

Of course such media require manual mounting and root or sudo-root
permissions, as do steps 3-7 above. But for grins at least, it can be done.





From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Mon Jan 11 15:08:13 2010
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 15:08:13 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <4B4B7D69.1010702@ameritech.net>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441DF20@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<4B4B7D69.1010702@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46901EC894A80@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

It should work like any other block device... or rather, since Linux is Unix(-like), any *file*.

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Raymond McLaughlin
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 2:35 PM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>> From: Drew
> 
>> Also, can an entire DVD be a squashfs filesystem? Or does it have to
>> be wrapped in an iso?
> 
> Based on my understanding, to write onto optical media needs a
> filesystem format specifically
> designed for that. So, either iso9660 or UDF.
> 
>  Sincerely,
> 
>  Ray Ingles                                                  (313)
> 227-2317

Just for grims, mostly, I have tinkered with writing other formats to
optical media, and found it can work. The command line cdrecord, or the
later wodim, will write any binary blob you feed it to the media without
complaint. You can do the same with K3b. It will give you stern
warnings, but let you proceed if you insist that you know what you are
doing.

I have written ext3 and ntfs filesystems to DVD in this manner.

Here is a procedure I used for creating a 4GB encrypted data DVD:

1. Using K3B create a standard ISO of the filesystem.

2. Using cp make a copy of this ISO. This creates a binary file exactly
the right size to contain the encrypted ISO.
  $ cp  data.iso crypt.iso

3. Link the second ISO to a loopback device, with encryption:
  $ losetup -e blowfish256 /dev/loop7 crypt.iso
  Password: ************************

4. Write data.iso to crypt.iso through the encrypted loop device.
  $ dd if=data.iso of=/dev/loop7

5. After writing completes, disconnect the loop device.
  $ losetup -d /dev/loop7

6. Test your encrypted ISO:
  $ mount -o loop,encryption=blowfish256 crypt.iso mnt
  Password: *************************

7. Once you are sure certain that the encrypted ISO works use K3B to
write it to your media. As mentioned K3B will object, but should allow
you to do it.

Of course such media require manual mounting and root or sudo-root
permissions, as do steps 3-7 above. But for grins at least, it can be done.



_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Mon Jan 11 15:23:53 2010
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 15:23:53 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <4B4B7D69.1010702@ameritech.net>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com><319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441DF20@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<4B4B7D69.1010702@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441DF94@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Raymond McLaughlin
> Ingles, Raymond wrote:

> > Based on my understanding, to write onto optical media needs a
> > filesystem format specifically
> > designed for that. So, either iso9660 or UDF.

> Just for grims, mostly, I have tinkered with writing other formats to
> optical media, and found it can work. The command line cdrecord, or
the
> later wodim, will write any binary blob you feed it to the media
without
> complaint. You can do the same with K3b. It will give you stern
> warnings, but let you proceed if you insist that you know what you are
> doing.

 Doesn't that in essence create an iso9660 filesystem with one file the
binary blob?
Or have I misunderstood? (I wouldn't be surprised if I had...)

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                (313) 227-2317

         Microsoft Windows - The joke that kills.

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.



From driveray at ameritech.net  Mon Jan 11 15:43:28 2010
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 15:43:28 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441DF94@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com><319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441DF20@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<4B4B7D69.1010702@ameritech.net>
	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441DF94@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <4B4B8D70.4080101@ameritech.net>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>> From: Raymond McLaughlin
>> Ingles, Raymond wrote:
> 
>>> Based on my understanding, to write onto optical media needs a
>>> filesystem format specifically
>>> designed for that. So, either iso9660 or UDF.
> 
>> Just for grims, mostly, I have tinkered with writing other formats to
>> optical media, and found it can work. The command line cdrecord, or
> the
>> later wodim, will write any binary blob you feed it to the media
> without
>> complaint. You can do the same with K3b. It will give you stern
>> warnings, but let you proceed if you insist that you know what you are
>> doing.
> 
>  Doesn't that in essence create an iso9660 filesystem with one file the
> binary blob?
> Or have I misunderstood? (I wouldn't be surprised if I had...)

I guess I was not entirely clear. The crypt.iso is written to the disk
using K3B's "Tools--->Burn DVD iso image ..." feature, not the create
new data DVD feature.

>  Sincerely,
> 
>  Ray Ingles                                (313) 227-2317


From driveray at ameritech.net  Mon Jan 11 15:46:54 2010
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 15:46:54 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <4B4B8D70.4080101@ameritech.net>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com><319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441DF20@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<4B4B7D69.1010702@ameritech.net>	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441DF94@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<4B4B8D70.4080101@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <4B4B8E3E.3010703@ameritech.net>

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> 
> I guess I was not entirely clear. The crypt.iso is written to the disk
> using K3B's "Tools--->Burn DVD iso image ..." feature, not the create
> new data DVD feature.

When you select you encrypted blob as the iso image you will get a
warning the K3B doesn't think it is a proper ISO9660 image file. But it
will let you proceed with the burn if you insist.


From z_mikowski at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 11 16:29:26 2010
From: z_mikowski at yahoo.com (Michael Mikowski)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 13:29:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <4B4B8E3E.3010703@ameritech.net>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com><319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441DF20@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<4B4B7D69.1010702@ameritech.net>
	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441DF94@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<4B4B8D70.4080101@ameritech.net> <4B4B8E3E.3010703@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <837141.56844.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

FWIW, I would still look at disk-to-disk backup.  Check out the Bacula manual, which has a tutorial.  One could use a usb device or SATA drive, and the convenience, speed, reliability, restore times, etc. would be superior to trying to physically manage many DVDs.


Once you fill up a 1TB drive, you could probably set it in a vault and start a fresh one as a new volume.  However, you certainly would not need to swap your backup drive nearly as often as a DVD.  If my math is right, you would be swapping 100-200 DVD's before matching the capacity of a single 1TB drive.  And that is not considering the additional space for unused blocks on the DVD's.



----- Original Message ----
From: Raymond McLaughlin <driveray at ameritech.net>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Mon, January 11, 2010 12:46:54 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> 
> I guess I was not entirely clear. The crypt.iso is written to the disk
> using K3B's "Tools--->Burn DVD iso image ..." feature, not the create
> new data DVD feature.

When you select you encrypted blob as the iso image you will get a
warning the K3B doesn't think it is a proper ISO9660 image file. But it
will let you proceed with the burn if you insist.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From robert.citek at gmail.com  Tue Jan 12 07:03:05 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 07:03:05 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4145b6791001120403l692c7c7bra1fc399ad14a409a@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 5:11 AM, Drew <drew4096 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I find myself with a lot of data to archive and back up

Can you describe a couple of use-case scenarios?  That is, under what
conditions do you see yourself retrieving the data and for what
purpose?  For example, do you see yourself in a year or more from now
searching through DVDs to find the one PDF you are looking for?

Regards,
- Robert


From danno at umich.edu  Tue Jan 12 11:41:32 2010
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 11:41:32 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <1263228184.3247.9.camel@linux-m3mt>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
	<1263228184.3247.9.camel@linux-m3mt>
Message-ID: <20100112164132.GA91398@maniac.deathstar.org>

On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:43:04AM -0500, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> If you care about your data either (a) don't backup to DVD or (b) make 
> multiple copies of each disc.

also, use par2 on the DVDs.  

 http://parchive.sourceforge.net/

> Tape is cheap, tape is reliable... buy a tape drive.

Indeed.

as long as you can find a working drive for whatever tape format
you choose (hint, choose the market leader), tape is the most likely
thing to be readable 20 years from now.

this is one possible option:

  http://www.jakeludington.com/project_studio/20050828_backup_files_to_dv_camera.html

but i don't necessarily trust the idea; it's not clear to me that dv video media
is bit-level reliable.  It's not clear to me that it's not, either.

Hmm, this problem has been addressed:

  http://www.s.netic.de/gfiala/dvbackup.html


re: hard drives:

They are probably more reliable than burned DVDs.  Long-term, though,
they're nowhere near tape.

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Tue Jan 12 12:17:50 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 12:17:50 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <20100112164132.GA91398@maniac.deathstar.org>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
	<1263228184.3247.9.camel@linux-m3mt>
	<20100112164132.GA91398@maniac.deathstar.org>
Message-ID: <4145b6791001120917x69694cd8m7faddb5fd2ba8546@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Dan Pritts <danno at umich.edu> wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:43:04AM -0500, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
>> Tape is cheap, tape is reliable... buy a tape drive.
>
> Indeed.
>
> as long as you can find a working drive for whatever tape format
> you choose (hint, choose the market leader), tape is the most likely
> thing to be readable 20 years from now.

Is that a requirement?  That is, does the OP need to be able to read
the data in 20 years from now?

Regards,
- Robert


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Tue Jan 12 12:19:37 2010
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 12:19:37 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <20100112164132.GA91398@maniac.deathstar.org>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com><1263228184.3247.9.camel@linux-m3mt>
	<20100112164132.GA91398@maniac.deathstar.org>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E0CE@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Dan Pritts

> Hmm, this problem has been addressed:
> 
>   http://www.s.netic.de/gfiala/dvbackup.html

 Warning: after about 10 years, our DV camcorder (the older Digital-8
format, DV video on Hi8 tapes) has failed. It no longer reliably reads
tapes. We borrowed a neighbor's camcorder for my recent bulk DV
conversion. The tapes themselves, of course, were still quite readable.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                      (313) 227-2317

 "Hope costs. Once you concede that problems can be solved, you
  have to get up off your ***. Despair, by contrast, is cheap,
    self-powering, eliminates unwanted guilt, and requires -
            permits - no effort." - Spider Robinson

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.



From awilliam at opengroupware.us  Tue Jan 12 13:21:52 2010
From: awilliam at opengroupware.us (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 13:21:52 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791001120917x69694cd8m7faddb5fd2ba8546@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
	<1263228184.3247.9.camel@linux-m3mt>
	<20100112164132.GA91398@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<4145b6791001120917x69694cd8m7faddb5fd2ba8546@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1263320512.8469.1.camel@linux-m3mt>

On Tue, 2010-01-12 at 12:17 -0500, Robert Citek wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Dan Pritts <danno at umich.edu> wrote:
> > On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:43:04AM -0500, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> >> Tape is cheap, tape is reliable... buy a tape drive.
> > Indeed.
> > as long as you can find a working drive for whatever tape format
> > you choose (hint, choose the market leader), tape is the most likely
> > thing to be readable 20 years from now.
> Is that a requirement?  That is, does the OP need to be able to read
> the data in 20 years from now?

Hint: buy a second tape drive 5 years from now when that technology is
much cheaper.  Or go crazy and buy two.



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Tue Jan 12 14:48:39 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 14:48:39 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <1263320512.8469.1.camel@linux-m3mt>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
	<1263228184.3247.9.camel@linux-m3mt>
	<20100112164132.GA91398@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<4145b6791001120917x69694cd8m7faddb5fd2ba8546@mail.gmail.com>
	<1263320512.8469.1.camel@linux-m3mt>
Message-ID: <b02c40e91001121148u47918e15hd6b66514aab8a1c3@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Adam Tauno Williams
<awilliam at opengroupware.us> wrote:
>
> Hint: buy a second tape drive 5 years from now when that technology is
> much cheaper. ?Or go crazy and buy two.
>

Also keep a copy of the current PDF readers as the format will change
over the years and todays PDFs may not be compatible with the
applications of tomorrow.

Obviously this implies keeping a copy of the OS and support libraries.
 Since x86 may be long gone in ten years you should probably keep a PC
in storage to support the software and drives.

(this only sounds ridiculous to those who haven't been involved in
corporate data archiving)


From tesral at wowway.com  Tue Jan 12 15:19:42 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 15:19:42 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e91001121148u47918e15hd6b66514aab8a1c3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>	<1263228184.3247.9.camel@linux-m3mt>	<20100112164132.GA91398@maniac.deathstar.org>	<4145b6791001120917x69694cd8m7faddb5fd2ba8546@mail.gmail.com>	<1263320512.8469.1.camel@linux-m3mt>
	<b02c40e91001121148u47918e15hd6b66514aab8a1c3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B4CD95E.6030304@wowway.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> Also keep a copy of the current PDF readers as the format will change
> over the years and todays PDFs may not be compatible with the
> applications of tomorrow.
>
> Obviously this implies keeping a copy of the OS and support libraries.
>  Since x86 may be long gone in ten years you should probably keep a PC
> in storage to support the software and drives.
>
> (this only sounds ridiculous to those who haven't been involved in
> corporate data archiving)

There is a lot to be said for paper.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? -Mohandas K. Gandhi  
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From drew4096 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 13 00:42:51 2010
From: drew4096 at gmail.com (Drew)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 00:42:51 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791001120403l692c7c7bra1fc399ad14a409a@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
	<4145b6791001120403l692c7c7bra1fc399ad14a409a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20100113001909.02e24010@pop.gmail.com>

At 07:03 AM 1/12/10, Robert Citek wrote:
>Can you describe a couple of use-case scenarios?  That is, under what
>conditions do you see yourself retrieving the data and for what
>purpose?  For example, do you see yourself in a year or more from now
>searching through DVDs to find the one PDF you are looking for?

They are a bunch of books - enough to stock a small city library - 
sorted into directories
according to category. So yes, I  would  be often loading a labeled 
DVD in (and loop
mounting the big file on it if applicable) to read a particular book, 
or peruse the selection.

I do have, or will have, as soon as I'm sure everything has been 
moved from it or is not
needed, a spare 160 GB drive. (The old main system drive.) I could 
use that for regular
service, until I can afford Terabyte-size drives.

And I may not need as much space as I thought. I have been finding 
instances of duplication,
triplication, and quadruplication of content, including directories 
named after author Firstname
Lastname, and same author Lastname Firstname with mostly the same 
titles, and the same title
in multiple formats (pdf, txt, and html). I'm not sure just how much 
space is accounted for by this
duplication, but some of it at least can be recovered.

I have more cleaning up to do on it. The creator of this collection 
committed the cardinal
sin of using whitespace characters in all the file and directory 
names. I've written a script to
correct this, but I'll still be a while fixing things.

As for tape, I remember having recovery problems when I relied on it 
for backups, which drove me
to magneto-optical media, and then to CDR when it became affordable.

----

- Drew.



From micorral at comcast.net  Tue Jan 12 20:05:12 2010
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 20:05:12 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e91001121148u47918e15hd6b66514aab8a1c3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
	<1263228184.3247.9.camel@linux-m3mt>
	<20100112164132.GA91398@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<4145b6791001120917x69694cd8m7faddb5fd2ba8546@mail.gmail.com>
	<1263320512.8469.1.camel@linux-m3mt>
	<b02c40e91001121148u47918e15hd6b66514aab8a1c3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.1001121957490.2353@banana.sluggo.net>

2010-01-12, Monsieur Jeff Hanson a ecrit:
> Obviously this implies keeping a copy of the OS and support libraries.
> Since x86 may be long gone in ten years you should probably keep a PC
> in storage to support the software and drives.
>
> (this only sounds ridiculous to those who haven't been involved in
> corporate data archiving)

Good advice.

Even in Linux, there are some old X11 apps that will segfault with newer
versions of the Xorg server (e.g. Corel WordPerfect 8.1 for Linux).
I keep a Fedora Core 4 box around just to run that and a few other
old apps (including some libc5-based ones).

Michael


From jrw32982 at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 13 13:19:12 2010
From: jrw32982 at yahoo.com (John Wiersba)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 10:19:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1263402001.18115.mdlug@mdlug.org>
References: <mailman.1.1263402001.18115.mdlug@mdlug.org>
Message-ID: <616781.70147.qm@web52708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

> From: Garry Stahl <tesral at wowway.com>

>
> > Jeff Hanson wrote:
> > Also keep a copy of the current PDF readers as the format will change
> > over the years and todays PDFs may not be compatible with the
> > applications of tomorrow.
> >
> > Obviously this implies keeping a copy of the OS and support libraries.
> >  Since x86 may be long gone in ten years you should probably keep a PC
> > in storage to support the software and drives.
> >
> > (this only sounds ridiculous to those who haven't been involved in
> > corporate data archiving)
> 
> There is a lot to be said for paper.

And there's a lot to be said for ASCII (text) data.

-- John Wiersba



      


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 13 17:20:46 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 17:20:46 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20100113001909.02e24010@pop.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>	<4145b6791001120403l692c7c7bra1fc399ad14a409a@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.0.20100113001909.02e24010@pop.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B4E473E.9000204@gmail.com>

Drew wrote:
> At 07:03 AM 1/12/10, Robert Citek wrote:
>> Can you describe a couple of use-case scenarios?  That is, under what
>> conditions do you see yourself retrieving the data and for what
>> purpose?  For example, do you see yourself in a year or more from now
>> searching through DVDs to find the one PDF you are looking for?
> 
> They are a bunch of books - enough to stock a small city library - 
> sorted into directories
> according to category. So yes, I  would  be often loading a labeled 
> DVD in (and loop
> mounting the big file on it if applicable) to read a particular book, 
> or peruse the selection.
> 
> I do have, or will have, as soon as I'm sure everything has been 
> moved from it or is not
> needed, a spare 160 GB drive. (The old main system drive.) I could 
> use that for regular
> service, until I can afford Terabyte-size drives.
> 
> And I may not need as much space as I thought. I have been finding 
> instances of duplication,
> triplication, and quadruplication of content, including directories 
> named after author Firstname
> Lastname, and same author Lastname Firstname with mostly the same 
> titles, and the same title
> in multiple formats (pdf, txt, and html). I'm not sure just how much 
> space is accounted for by this
> duplication, but some of it at least can be recovered.
> 
> I have more cleaning up to do on it. The creator of this collection 
> committed the cardinal
> sin of using whitespace characters in all the file and directory 
> names. I've written a script to
> correct this, but I'll still be a while fixing things.
> 
> As for tape, I remember having recovery problems when I relied on it 
> for backups, which drove me
> to magneto-optical media, and then to CDR when it became affordable.
> 

a 500 GB 2.5" drive in a USB carrier is about $100 these days.


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 13 18:06:30 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 18:06:30 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] MDLUG January meeting?
Message-ID: <4B4E51F6.7050505@gmail.com>

I haven't seen a notice yet

Is it this weekend?


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Wed Jan 13 18:22:10 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 18:22:10 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <4B4E473E.9000204@gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
	<4145b6791001120403l692c7c7bra1fc399ad14a409a@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.0.20100113001909.02e24010@pop.gmail.com>
	<4B4E473E.9000204@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4145b6791001131522x376a183ckacf2dce92b91cf21@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 5:20 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
> a 500 GB 2.5" drive in a USB carrier is about $100 these days.

Or if you want to go for the more industrial/geeky look, for that same
$100 you can get a 1TB drive ($80) and a SATA to USB dock ($20):

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4691121&CatId=2459

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4259603&CatId=2785

For comparison, here's the pricing for tape drives and tape cartridges:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?CatId=291

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?CatId=63

Regards,
- Robert


From mat.enders at gmail.com  Wed Jan 13 20:35:07 2010
From: mat.enders at gmail.com (Mathew Enders)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 20:35:07 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] MDLUG January meeting?
In-Reply-To: <4B4E51F6.7050505@gmail.com>
References: <4B4E51F6.7050505@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B4E74CB.5000405@gmail.com>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> I haven't seen a notice yet
> 
> Is it this weekend?
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 
It was last weekend


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 14 00:11:23 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 00:11:23 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] MDLUG January meeting?
In-Reply-To: <4B4E74CB.5000405@gmail.com>
References: <4B4E51F6.7050505@gmail.com> <4B4E74CB.5000405@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B4EA77B.7030909@gmail.com>

Mathew Enders wrote:
> Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>> I haven't seen a notice yet
>>
>> Is it this weekend?
>>
> It was last weekend

:-(


From awilliam at opengroupware.us  Thu Jan 14 06:41:27 2010
From: awilliam at opengroupware.us (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 06:41:27 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791001131522x376a183ckacf2dce92b91cf21@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
	<4145b6791001120403l692c7c7bra1fc399ad14a409a@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.0.20100113001909.02e24010@pop.gmail.com>
	<4B4E473E.9000204@gmail.com>
	<4145b6791001131522x376a183ckacf2dce92b91cf21@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1263469287.3166.2.camel@linux-m3mt>

On Wed, 2010-01-13 at 18:22 -0500, Robert Citek wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 5:20 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > a 500 GB 2.5" drive in a USB carrier is about $100 these days.
> 
> Or if you want to go for the more industrial/geeky look, for that same
> $100 you can get a 1TB drive ($80) and a SATA to USB dock ($20):

*One* hard drive is a really terrible archival strategy,  you need at
least mirrored pairs in dual drive caddies.  This doesn't remain a cheap
strategy for long.  Or else two caddies who perform dual backups to.

> For comparison, here's the pricing for tape drives and tape cartridges:
> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?CatId=291
> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?CatId=63

DAT4 drives and media can be gotten quite inexpensively, are durable,
and the media last a l-o-n-g time.




From robert.citek at gmail.com  Thu Jan 14 08:00:09 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 08:00:09 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Compression and Archiving
In-Reply-To: <1263469287.3166.2.camel@linux-m3mt>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20100111045412.02e1e360@pop.gmail.com>
	<4145b6791001120403l692c7c7bra1fc399ad14a409a@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.3.4.0.20100113001909.02e24010@pop.gmail.com>
	<4B4E473E.9000204@gmail.com>
	<4145b6791001131522x376a183ckacf2dce92b91cf21@mail.gmail.com>
	<1263469287.3166.2.camel@linux-m3mt>
Message-ID: <4145b6791001140500m46e374bbsa6f183f0c69c5dee@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 6:41 AM, Adam Tauno Williams
<awilliam at opengroupware.us> wrote:
> On Wed, 2010-01-13 at 18:22 -0500, Robert Citek wrote:
>> On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 5:20 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > a 500 GB 2.5" drive in a USB carrier is about $100 these days.
>>
>> Or if you want to go for the more industrial/geeky look, for that same
>> $100 you can get a 1TB drive ($80) and a SATA to USB dock ($20):
>
> *One* hard drive is a really terrible archival strategy,

*one* of anything is "bad" for archiving.  But that sisue has already
been addressed:

On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Adam Tauno Williams
<awilliam at opengroupware.us> wrote:
> Hint: buy a second tape drive 5 years from now when that technology is
> much cheaper.  Or go crazy and buy two.

sed -e 's/tape/hard/'

Regards,
- Robert


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Fri Jan 15 09:19:30 2010
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 09:19:30 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Laptop woes - Knoppix boots but Ubuntu doesn't?
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E47C@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>


 I'd thought my laptop was dead - it stopped booting one night and
nothing I tried managed a successful boot. I was looking into netbooks.
Post-xmas, we have the money assembled for one, but I took one last look
at the laptop we have. 

 I tried Ubuntu desktop live CDs (both 9.04 and 9.10), and it came up
with the basic splash screen... but attempting to boot the full kernel
failed - just a blinking cursor in the corner of the screen. On a whim,
I tried a Knoppix live DVD... and to my surprise I was able to boot to X
and everything. A bit of tweaking and I was even able to mount the hard
drive.

 So, something in the hardware has apparently failed in such a way that
Ubuntu won't boot but Knoppix will. Very strange. Anyone seen anything
like that? I'm going to try the Ubuntu "alternate install", which might
let me actually see the kernel messages on boot. I'm also going to try
some other distros, like OpenSUSE or Fedora. It'd be nice to resurrect
this thing.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                           (313) 227-2317

 "The computing industry is given 12 months to deploy a technology
 that does not exist and whose sole purpose is to protect profits.
 The car industry was allowed decades to deploy safety features such
    as seat belts and air bags that were designed to save lives."
   - Zeinfeld, on the SSSCA, a proposed law that would mandate all
 computers to prevent any file copying whatsoever unless explicitly
          approved by the entertainment conglomerates

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.



From petertheplumber at att.net  Fri Jan 15 15:28:22 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 15:28:22 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Adobe FileOpen Plugin Security Risk?
Message-ID: <1263587302.4604.32.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

Hi Everyone,
	Today I downloaded a manual from <http://www.techstreet.com/> that
required I install a plugin to be able to read it from
<http://plugin.fileopen.com/all.html>. As best as I can figure out it's
some sort of DRM. I ran the installer from the shell, and it had to be
root. Then I found <http://www.fileopen.com/pdf_plug_in_faq.php#a9>, but
I'd allready ran the installer. I know I should have checked a little
more thoroughly, but here I am. Below is the screen output from when I
ran the script, and I still have the installer script as well. It
doesn't look like I compromised my system, but this is not my area of
expertise. Anyone want to venture a guess? Anyone heard of this before?

plumber-notebook:/home/peter/Downloads/adobe/file_open_inst/FileOpenInstaller # /home/peter/Downloads/adobe/file_open_inst/FileOpenInstaller/commandline_installer.sh

*************** FileOpen Plug-in Installer ***************

Removing any old installation files...
Removing any previously installed plug-ins...
Trying to read Acrobat Reader version...
Path to executable : /usr/bin/acroread
Acrobat Reader version 8.1.7 found.
Checking if ./FileOpen.AR8.api exists...yes
Using FileOpen plug-in from current directory...
Checking if downloaded ./FileOpen.AR8.api exists...yes

Installing plug-in for current user...
Correcting permissions...
Installation was successful.
plumber-notebook:/home/peter/Downloads/adobe/file_open_inst/FileOpenInstaller # 



-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Fri Jan 15 15:46:30 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 15:46:30 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Laptop woes - Knoppix boots but Ubuntu doesn't?
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E47C@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E47C@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <b02c40e91001151246h6eaa5d93wef7c563605030f5@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 9:19 AM, Ingles, Raymond
<Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:
> ?So, something in the hardware has apparently failed in such a way that
> Ubuntu won't boot but Knoppix will. Very strange. Anyone seen anything
> like that? I'm going to try the Ubuntu "alternate install", which might
> let me actually see the kernel messages on boot. I'm also going to try
> some other distros, like OpenSUSE or Fedora. It'd be nice to resurrect
> this thing.

If it didn't break because of an update then run a RAM test.


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Fri Jan 15 16:01:24 2010
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 16:01:24 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Laptop woes - Knoppix boots but Ubuntu doesn't?
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e91001151246h6eaa5d93wef7c563605030f5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E47C@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<b02c40e91001151246h6eaa5d93wef7c563605030f5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E584@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

It got 40% through one pass last night, forgot to mention before. I'll let it run a full pass, but in my experience with dodgy RAM, if there's a problem it's usually found pretty quickly.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                            (313) 227-2317

 Microsoft complaining about the source license used by Linux is like
       the event horizon calling the kettle black. - Adam Barr

> 
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.

> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of
> Jeff Hanson
> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 3:47 PM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Laptop woes - Knoppix boots but Ubuntu doesn't?
> 
> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 9:19 AM, Ingles, Raymond
> <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:
> >  So, something in the hardware has apparently failed in such a way that
> > Ubuntu won't boot but Knoppix will. Very strange. Anyone seen anything
> > like that? I'm going to try the Ubuntu "alternate install", which might
> > let me actually see the kernel messages on boot. I'm also going to try
> > some other distros, like OpenSUSE or Fedora. It'd be nice to resurrect
> > this thing.
> 
> If it didn't break because of an update then run a RAM test.
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




From mat.enders at gmail.com  Fri Jan 15 17:48:47 2010
From: mat.enders at gmail.com (Mathew Enders)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 17:48:47 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Adobe FileOpen Plugin Security Risk?
In-Reply-To: <1263587302.4604.32.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
References: <1263587302.4604.32.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <4B50F0CF.6070206@gmail.com>

Peter Bart wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
> 	Today I downloaded a manual from <http://www.techstreet.com/> that
> required I install a plugin to be able to read it from
> <http://plugin.fileopen.com/all.html>. As best as I can figure out it's
> some sort of DRM. I ran the installer from the shell, and it had to be
> root. Then I found <http://www.fileopen.com/pdf_plug_in_faq.php#a9>, but
> I'd allready ran the installer. I know I should have checked a little
> more thoroughly, but here I am. Below is the screen output from when I
> ran the script, and I still have the installer script as well. It
> doesn't look like I compromised my system, but this is not my area of
> expertise. Anyone want to venture a guess? Anyone heard of this before?
> 
> plumber-notebook:/home/peter/Downloads/adobe/file_open_inst/FileOpenInstaller # /home/peter/Downloads/adobe/file_open_inst/FileOpenInstaller/commandline_installer.sh
> 
> *************** FileOpen Plug-in Installer ***************
> 
> Removing any old installation files...
> Removing any previously installed plug-ins...
> Trying to read Acrobat Reader version...
> Path to executable : /usr/bin/acroread
> Acrobat Reader version 8.1.7 found.
> Checking if ./FileOpen.AR8.api exists...yes
> Using FileOpen plug-in from current directory...
> Checking if downloaded ./FileOpen.AR8.api exists...yes
> 
> Installing plug-in for current user...
> Correcting permissions...
> Installation was successful.
> plumber-notebook:/home/peter/Downloads/adobe/file_open_inst/FileOpenInstaller # 
> 
> 
> 
It is definetly doing DRM but you are not exposed I do not believe it 
only runs with your limitded user permissions and just does a check at 
the publishers website.


From petertheplumber at att.net  Fri Jan 15 18:17:55 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 18:17:55 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Adobe FileOpen Plugin Security Risk?
In-Reply-To: <4B50F0CF.6070206@gmail.com>
References: <1263587302.4604.32.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
	<4B50F0CF.6070206@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1263597475.4604.34.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

On Fri, 2010-01-15 at 17:48 -0500, Mathew Enders wrote:
> Peter Bart wrote:
> > Hi Everyone,
> > 	Today I downloaded a manual from <http://www.techstreet.com/> that
> > required I install a plugin to be able to read it from
> > <http://plugin.fileopen.com/all.html>. As best as I can figure out it's
> > some sort of DRM. I ran the installer from the shell, and it had to be
> > root. Then I found <http://www.fileopen.com/pdf_plug_in_faq.php#a9>, but
> > I'd allready ran the installer. I know I should have checked a little
> > more thoroughly, but here I am. Below is the screen output from when I
> > ran the script, and I still have the installer script as well. It
> > doesn't look like I compromised my system, but this is not my area of
> > expertise. Anyone want to venture a guess? Anyone heard of this before?
> > 
> > plumber-notebook:/home/peter/Downloads/adobe/file_open_inst/FileOpenInstaller # /home/peter/Downloads/adobe/file_open_inst/FileOpenInstaller/commandline_installer.sh
> > 
> > *************** FileOpen Plug-in Installer ***************
> > 
> > Removing any old installation files...
> > Removing any previously installed plug-ins...
> > Trying to read Acrobat Reader version...
> > Path to executable : /usr/bin/acroread
> > Acrobat Reader version 8.1.7 found.
> > Checking if ./FileOpen.AR8.api exists...yes
> > Using FileOpen plug-in from current directory...
> > Checking if downloaded ./FileOpen.AR8.api exists...yes
> > 
> > Installing plug-in for current user...
> > Correcting permissions...
> > Installation was successful.
> > plumber-notebook:/home/peter/Downloads/adobe/file_open_inst/FileOpenInstaller # 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> It is definetly doing DRM but you are not exposed I do not believe it 
> only runs with your limitded user permissions and just does a check at 
> the publishers website.

	Thanks, I didn't see anything like installsecretrootkitandkeylogger in
the install script. But I wanted to check.

-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber



From drew4096 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 15 23:14:05 2010
From: drew4096 at gmail.com (Drew)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 23:14:05 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Laptop woes - Knoppix boots but Ubuntu doesn't?
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E47C@nasa-dtw-ex004.na
	sa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E47C@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20100115231128.02e58940@pop.gmail.com>

At 09:19 AM 1/15/10, Ingles, Raymond wrote:


>  So, something in the hardware has apparently failed in such a way that
>Ubuntu won't boot but Knoppix will. Very strange. Anyone seen anything
>like that?


I have found that my PC-OS Live Boot partition fails to boot if I 
have too many partitions on
the hard drive - Or at least, fails to start the GUI - while other 
versions of linux don't have
this problem.

----

- Drew.



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 15 18:52:15 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 18:52:15 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Laptop woes - Knoppix boots but Ubuntu doesn't?
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E584@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E47C@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<b02c40e91001151246h6eaa5d93wef7c563605030f5@mail.gmail.com>
	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E584@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <4B50FFAF.50602@gmail.com>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
> It got 40% through one pass last night, forgot to mention before. I'll let it run a full pass, but in my experience with dodgy RAM, if there's a problem it's usually found pretty quickly.
> 


You mean like at booting up....

Or do you mean "in the first few days as opposed to years later"
In which case, you would be only half right.



Electronic failure curves tend to look like this:

% failure
	|
	|
	|
	|                                -
	|                               / \
	|                              /   \
	|\                            /     \
	+_\_________________________- ___+___-___________>
					MTBF		time->
         ^                               ^
         |                               | 
         +--- marginal product           +-- Bulk of production
	 which manages to pass               which passes QC tests.
	 quality control tests.


>  Sincerely,
> 
>  Ray Ingles                                            (313) 227-2317
> 
>  Microsoft complaining about the source license used by Linux is like
>        the event horizon calling the kettle black. - Adam Barr
> 
> The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.
> 
>> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of
>> Jeff Hanson
>> Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 3:47 PM
>> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
>> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Laptop woes - Knoppix boots but Ubuntu doesn't?
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 9:19 AM, Ingles, Raymond
>> <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:
>>>  So, something in the hardware has apparently failed in such a way that
>>> Ubuntu won't boot but Knoppix will. Very strange. Anyone seen anything
>>> like that? I'm going to try the Ubuntu "alternate install", which might
>>> let me actually see the kernel messages on boot. I'm also going to try
>>> some other distros, like OpenSUSE or Fedora. It'd be nice to resurrect
>>> this thing.
>> If it didn't break because of an update then run a RAM test.
>> _______________________________________________
>> mdlug mailing list
>> mdlug at mdlug.org
>> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From skyefire at skyefire.org  Sat Jan 16 16:35:00 2010
From: skyefire at skyefire.org (David McMillan)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 16:35:00 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Background task accessing web pages
Message-ID: <4B523104.3090703@skyefire.org>


   Hey, all.  I'm currently stuck in France, at a hotel (companny trip, 
hence cheap) whose internet is "free"... as long as I keep opening up 
their ad-page front-end every 10min and begging for free access again. 
Any download that lasts more than 10min just isn't happening.  I could 
live with that, but getting constantly logged off every 10min is 
annoying -- any page I access gets re-directed to the "click on this ad 
for free access" page, and I have to click on the link.  And THEN re-do 
my URL, b/c the free-access page doesn't redirect to my original 
destination.  Welcome to ad-supported internet, I guess.  And no, 
there's no way to "buy up" to uninterrupted access.

   So, my thought:  how hard could it be to start a background task 
(maybe a lynx session) that would periodically open the free-access 
login page and click the correct links?

   The sequence is this:  try to open a page, get redirected to the 
free-access page.  Click a button on the page.  Page directs to an 
advertisement.  Click on the advertisement, which triggers a 10min 
window of free access *and* opens a new tab/window linked to by the ad.



From carl at carltm.com  Sun Jan 17 12:03:59 2010
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 12:03:59 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Background task accessing web pages
In-Reply-To: <4B523104.3090703@skyefire.org>
References: <4B523104.3090703@skyefire.org>
Message-ID: <d1dea6636677ab685766ed3861a017e0.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

David McMillan wrote:
>    So, my thought:  how hard could it be to start a background task
> (maybe a lynx session) that would periodically open the free-access
> login page and click the correct links?
>
>    The sequence is this:  try to open a page, get redirected to the
> free-access page.  Click a button on the page.  Page directs to an
> advertisement.  Click on the advertisement, which triggers a 10min
> window of free access *and* opens a new tab/window linked to by the ad.

I would use wget for something like this.  Set up a temporary
directory somewhere since it will create a lot of files in a
lot of subdirectories.  It should be rather easy to do if there
are no cookies or sessions.  Check the man page for wget.  Just
reuse the same cookie file if needed.

c




From petertheplumber at att.net  Sun Jan 17 12:38:33 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 12:38:33 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] openSUSE 11.2 and XFCE was Speedy Older Pentium 3 on
 openSUSE 11.1
In-Reply-To: 014801ca608e$d0e39a00$72aace00$@org
Message-ID: <1263749913.4604.75.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

Hello Everyone,
	FWIW I loaded openSUSE 11.2 and XFCE onto an older T30 P4 Thinkpad the
other day. I was waiting for an urgent delivery, and had time to kill. I
accepted all the installation defaults, except for "automatic
configuration". It will suspend and shut down as user. I like the
minimalist interface, and of course it runs like the Roadrunner.
-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber



From carl at carltm.com  Sun Jan 17 13:17:36 2010
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 13:17:36 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] openSUSE 11.2 and XFCE was Speedy Older Pentium 3 on
 openSUSE 11.1
In-Reply-To: <1263749913.4604.75.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
References: <1263749913.4604.75.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <adf8b05a44cd893b6ff0ed3fef70e2ea.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

Peter Bart wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
> 	FWIW I loaded openSUSE 11.2 and XFCE onto an older T30 P4 Thinkpad the
> other day. I was waiting for an urgent delivery, and had time to kill. I
> accepted all the installation defaults, except for "automatic
> configuration". It will suspend and shut down as user. I like the
> minimalist interface, and of course it runs like the Roadrunner.

Cool.  So you're saying that version 11.2 runs even better than
version 11.1 did on your hardware?  Or was if fast before, but now
the shut down and suspend works for regular users?

c




From brian at dangerbacon.com  Sun Jan 17 13:36:41 2010
From: brian at dangerbacon.com (Brian)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 13:36:41 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Background task accessing web pages
In-Reply-To: <6f64e9541001171032q1b838c35k1da4fa0c5cddfcb2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B523104.3090703@skyefire.org>
	<d1dea6636677ab685766ed3861a017e0.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
	<6f64e9541001171032q1b838c35k1da4fa0c5cddfcb2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6f64e9541001171036s3faf2992x268a3ccc5f42107f@mail.gmail.com>

I would bet they use cookies to identify users so I doubt having another
browser getting the free browsing cookie would help much.  I would think the
best automatic way around it would be a small proxy program that would
automatically "click the ad" and store any cookie data that came back.  Or
you could look for flaws like hardcoded expiration times.

On Jan 17, 2010 12:04 PM, "Carl T. Miller" <carl at carltm.com> wrote:

David McMillan wrote: > So, my thought: how hard could it be to start a
background task > (maybe...
I would use wget for something like this.  Set up a temporary
directory somewhere since it will create a lot of files in a
lot of subdirectories.  It should be rather easy to do if there
are no cookies or sessions.  Check the man page for wget.  Just
reuse the same cookie file if needed.

c _______________________________________________ mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org http://mdlug...


From petertheplumber at att.net  Sun Jan 17 13:55:34 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 13:55:34 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] openSUSE 11.2 and XFCE was Speedy Older Pentium 3 on
 openSUSE 11.1
In-Reply-To: <adf8b05a44cd893b6ff0ed3fef70e2ea.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
References: <1263749913.4604.75.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
	<adf8b05a44cd893b6ff0ed3fef70e2ea.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <20100117135534.4a66b29d@Nokia-N800-43-7>

On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 13:17:36 -0500
"Carl T. Miller" <carl at carltm.com> wrote:

> Peter Bart wrote:
> > Hello Everyone,
> > 	FWIW I loaded openSUSE 11.2 and XFCE onto an older T30 P4
> > Thinkpad the other day. I was waiting for an urgent delivery, and
> > had time to kill. I accepted all the installation defaults, except
> > for "automatic configuration". It will suspend and shut down as
> > user. I like the minimalist interface, and of course it runs like
> > the Roadrunner.
> 
> Cool.  So you're saying that version 11.2 runs even better than
> version 11.1 did on your hardware?  Or was if fast before, but now
> the shut down and suspend works for regular users?
> 

I'm saying suspend and shutdown work for me now. I can't speak to
speed, the previous install went on an IBM T22. Which I think is a P1
or 2. This install went on a T30 P4. Also this time I went with the
default partitioning, not partitioning separate partitions myself. So I
can't really speak to any improvement, sorry. I can speak to the fact
it's extremely easy to setup. Of course it's very minimal, but
individual Gnome and KDE packages can be added. Such as Networkmanager,
etc.
-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber
Sent from a mobile Internet Tablet


From gib at juno.com  Sun Jan 17 14:27:43 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 19:27:43 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] Penguicon 2010 Room
Message-ID: <20100117.142743.1123.0@webmail03.vgs.untd.com>

In our officers meeting we decided that we would have a room at Penguicon this year. Any contributions form others will be fine.


____________________________________________________________
Nutrition
Improve your career health. Click now to study nutrition!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=qmeyvQBv1a5G_bkmXhRk0wAAJz07QkQODMrtXujsdlflQzfUAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASQwAAAAA=


From box at blogdetroit.com  Sun Jan 17 14:50:32 2010
From: box at blogdetroit.com (marytee)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 14:50:32 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] MDLUG February Meeting - 2010 Officer Election and Bylaw
	Changes
Message-ID: <4B536A08.2090707@blogdetroit.com>

The next MDLUG general membership meeting will be on Saturday, February 
13, 2010 at 12:30PM at Gaudior Academy 27100 Avondale Avenue Inkster MI 
48141.

Meeting agenda is:

1. Election of 2010 officers:

a. Nominations for 2010 MDLUG officers:
    President - Gibson Nichols
    Vice President  - Garry Stahl
    Michael Persello  - Treasurer
    Secretary - Tony Bemus

  (If you wish to vote by proxy, please notify the Secretary 
(secretary at mdlug.org) via email prior to the meeting, with the following 
information: (a.) Your Name; (b.) MDLUG member who will cast your proxy 
vote;  (c.) Be sure and put 2010 MDLUG Officer proxy vote in the subject 
line.


2. Vote on the following bylaw amendments:

a. Eliminate paper library by amending MDLUG bylaws ( Section V, 
subsection A, part 6) to read: The librarian who collects, maintains, 
and makes available to members freely distributable software.

b. Amend MDLUG bylaws, Section V Subsection A, to add part 7: Meeting 
room logistics facilitator who manages the planning and set-up for the 
MDLUG monthly meeting space.

c. Amend bylaws by adding Section V. Subsection C.: Appointed positions 
may be held by an elected officer provided that he or she agrees to 
assume the duties of the appointed position.



3. Vote on the following motion:  Create Cafe Press Account to sell 
MDLUG merchandise.

------------------------

Following the business meeting we will have the following informational 
sessions:

Tech Tip: "Don't rm, shred instead!" Presented by Mat Enders
Quick tutorial on rsync presented by Mary Tomich
 


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Mon Jan 18 07:58:31 2010
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 07:58:31 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Laptop woes - Knoppix boots but Ubuntu doesn't?
In-Reply-To: <4B50FFAF.50602@gmail.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E47C@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<b02c40e91001151246h6eaa5d93wef7c563605030f5@mail.gmail.com><319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E584@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<4B50FFAF.50602@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E5B0@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Aaron Kulkis

> Ingles, Raymond wrote:
> > It got 40% through one pass last night, forgot to mention before.
I'll let
> it run a full pass, but in my experience with dodgy RAM, if there's a
problem
> it's usually found pretty quickly.

> You mean like at booting up....

 More or less - I mean the memory testing program. In my experience, if
memtest86+ is going to find a RAM error at all, it finds it in less than
a minute. I still try to find time to run at least one full pass, but if
I'm in a hurry I'll let it run for a little while to see if it finds any
gross, obvious RAM problems.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                       (313) 227-2317

 If George Bush thinks "gay marriage" is such a big deal that he
 needs to muck with our Constitution, why didn't he push for it
             to be written into Iraq's new one?

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Mon Jan 18 08:06:21 2010
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 08:06:21 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Laptop woes - Knoppix boots but Ubuntu doesn't?
	(semi-SOLVED)
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E47C@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E47C@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E5B5@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Ingles, Raymond

>  So, something in the hardware has apparently failed in such a way
that
> Ubuntu won't boot but Knoppix will. Very strange. Anyone seen anything
> like that? I'm going to try the Ubuntu "alternate install", which
might
> let me actually see the kernel messages on boot. I'm also going to try
> some other distros, like OpenSUSE or Fedora. It'd be nice to resurrect
> this thing.

 Okay, a Knoppix version 5.x worked; a Knoppix version 6.x didn't.
Fedora 12 booted okay, but didn't see the trackpad, or the PS/2 mouse
I'd plugged in. Ubuntu 9.10 would boot from CD with the options
"acpi=off noapic nolapic", but would not boot from the hard disk with
those options.

 OpenSUSE 11.2 did boot from CD, and will reliably boot in "failsafe"
mode on the laptop. My wife can use it as a remote desktop client and I
was able to do some websurfing and such from it last night. That's all
we wanted from it (or a netbook) anyway, so for now it's good. Of
course, there's at least one other hardware problem now - the battery
seems to have died.

 We're going to give it a week before we declare the problem 'solved
enough'. If it makes it through the next week, I'm going to presume that
it's liable to survive at least another six months or so.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                               (313) 227-2317

 "Transported to a surreal landscape, a young girl kills
 the first woman she meets and then teams up with three
 complete strangers to kill again." - TV listing for the
    Wizard of Oz in the Marin Independent Journal

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 18 13:38:23 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 13:38:23 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Laptop woes - Knoppix boots but Ubuntu doesn't?
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E5B0@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E47C@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<b02c40e91001151246h6eaa5d93wef7c563605030f5@mail.gmail.com><319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E584@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<4B50FFAF.50602@gmail.com>
	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E5B0@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <4B54AA9F.6000404@gmail.com>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>> From: Aaron Kulkis
> 
>> Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>>> It got 40% through one pass last night, forgot to mention before.
> I'll let
>> it run a full pass, but in my experience with dodgy RAM, if there's a
> problem
>> it's usually found pretty quickly.
> 
>> You mean like at booting up....
> 
>  More or less - I mean the memory testing program. In my experience, if
> memtest86+ is going to find a RAM error at all, it finds it in less than
> a minute. I still try to find time to run at least one full pass, but if
> I'm in a hurry I'll let it run for a little while to see if it finds any
> gross, obvious RAM problems.

Not always.  I've had memory errors that didn't show up until
70% of memtest86+'s tests were performed.

If you look at all the ways that memory can be bad, you'll
understand why memtest86+ does more than just 3 or 4 passes
through the memory.  Each test is checking for a different
kind of flaw. (For example, the rotating 1's and rotating
0's tests for flaws in which the same bit from two adjacent
memory locations are short-circuited together.  If you just
write 0xAA and 0x55 to each memory address, you can find out
if adjacent bits in the SAME memory address are shorted
together, but you won't find out if say, bit 3 of memory
locations X and X-1 are shorted together).



> 
>  Sincerely,
> 
>  Ray Ingles                                       (313) 227-2317
> 
>  If George Bush thinks "gay marriage" is such a big deal that he
>  needs to muck with our Constitution, why didn't he push for it
>              to be written into Iraq's new one?
> 
> The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Tue Jan 19 08:31:51 2010
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 08:31:51 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Laptop woes - Knoppix boots but Ubuntu doesn't?
In-Reply-To: <4B54AA9F.6000404@gmail.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E47C@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<b02c40e91001151246h6eaa5d93wef7c563605030f5@mail.gmail.com><319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E584@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<4B50FFAF.50602@gmail.com><319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E5B0@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<4B54AA9F.6000404@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E70C@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Aaron Kulkis

> Ingles, Raymond wrote:
> >  More or less - I mean the memory testing program. In my experience,
if
> > memtest86+ is going to find a RAM error at all, it finds it in less
than
> > a minute.
 
> Not always.  I've had memory errors that didn't show up until
> 70% of memtest86+'s tests were performed.

 After getting burned by some bad RAM a couple years ago, I've been
doing more memtesting. I'll probably run into such a case sooner or
later. Fortunately, the laptop made it through a full pass or two a
couple days ago. Whatever the problem is, I don't think it's RAM.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                         (313) 227-2317

 "If decisive but massive killing actually stopped the other side,
      Israel would be as peaceful as Omaha by now." - elmegil

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.



From robert.citek at gmail.com  Tue Jan 19 10:24:57 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 10:24:57 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Laptop woes - Knoppix boots but Ubuntu doesn't?
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E47C@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E47C@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <4145b6791001190724g4c9445blbe63c2f9c06e0781@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 9:19 AM, Ingles, Raymond
<Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:
> ?I tried Ubuntu desktop live CDs (both 9.04 and 9.10), and it came up
> with the basic splash screen... but attempting to boot the full kernel
> failed - just a blinking cursor in the corner of the screen. On a whim,
> I tried a Knoppix live DVD... and to my surprise I was able to boot to X
> and everything. A bit of tweaking and I was even able to mount the hard
> drive.

Try booting the Ubuntu CD, pressing F4 to bring up the modes, and
selecting Safe Graphics Mode.  Also, press F6 and remove "quiet
splash" from the end of the boot command line.

See this page for more details:

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BootOptions

What make and model of laptop?

Regards,
- Robert


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Tue Jan 19 10:33:36 2010
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 10:33:36 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Laptop woes - Knoppix boots but Ubuntu doesn't?
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791001190724g4c9445blbe63c2f9c06e0781@mail.gmail.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E47C@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<4145b6791001190724g4c9445blbe63c2f9c06e0781@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E76D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Robert Citek

> Try booting the Ubuntu CD, pressing F4 to bring up the modes, and
> selecting Safe Graphics Mode.  Also, press F6 and remove "quiet
> splash" from the end of the boot command line.

 I'll try removing "quiet splash"; I might be able to see where it freezes up.

> What make and model of laptop?

Dell Inspiron 2650 model PP04L - which worked fine with Ubuntu before the Night The Laptop Died.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                    (313) 227-2317

 "Anyone else notice that the U.S. military did a bang-up job
   protecting Iraqi oil wells, but no one told them to make
                hospitals a priority?" - Me


The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.



From robert.citek at gmail.com  Tue Jan 19 14:47:37 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 14:47:37 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Laptop woes - Knoppix boots but Ubuntu doesn't?
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E76D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E47C@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<4145b6791001190724g4c9445blbe63c2f9c06e0781@mail.gmail.com>
	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E76D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <4145b6791001191147i7e68b153o62002a707406b80@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 10:33 AM, Ingles, Raymond
<Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:
> Dell Inspiron 2650 model PP04L - which worked fine with Ubuntu before the Night The Laptop Died.

If Ubuntu installed on it before and now it doesn't finish booting
from the Ubuntu CD, then it sounds like a hardware issue.  Given that
Knoppix boots, my guess would be something with the Ubuntu CD, the
CD-ROM, or the combination.  But it could be anything: flaky RAM,
flaky capacitor, flaky connection, etc.

Two quick tests that can be done with the Ubuntu CD:
- test memory -- fourth option down from the boot menu
- check cd for defects -- third option down from the boot menu

Good luck and let us know what you discover.

Regards,
- Robert


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Tue Jan 19 15:08:58 2010
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 15:08:58 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Laptop woes - Knoppix boots but Ubuntu doesn't?
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791001191147i7e68b153o62002a707406b80@mail.gmail.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E47C@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp><4145b6791001190724g4c9445blbe63c2f9c06e0781@mail.gmail.com><319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E76D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<4145b6791001191147i7e68b153o62002a707406b80@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E037045409BF@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Robert Citek


> If Ubuntu installed on it before and now it doesn't finish booting
> from the Ubuntu CD, then it sounds like a hardware issue.

 Yup:

  http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/2009-August/007213.html

> Two quick tests that can be done with the Ubuntu CD:
> - test memory -- fourth option down from the boot menu

 Done, no problems detected.

> - check cd for defects -- third option down from the boot menu

 Multiple CDs, both 9.04 and 9.10.

 It's a hardware thing. What I don't know (yet) is what kind of hardware
issue it is. I've noted that on OpenSUSE, it logs a few ATA 'device not
ready' errors before it finally boots. So far, this has not impacted
operation, but...

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                           (313) 227-2317

 "When a friend of mine quit his last job, the reason he gave in his
    notice was 'because Dilbert isn't funny anymore.' In his exit
   interview, he was asked what he meant by that." - Stefan Bethke

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.



From rmdion at gmail.com  Tue Jan 19 23:53:40 2010
From: rmdion at gmail.com (Bob Dion)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 22:53:40 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] Laptop woes - Knoppix boots but Ubuntu doesn't?
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E037045409BF@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E47C@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp><4145b6791001190724g4c9445blbe63c2f9c06e0781@mail.gmail.com><319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E76D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<4145b6791001191147i7e68b153o62002a707406b80@mail.gmail.com>
	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E037045409BF@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <4B568C54.7010801@gmail.com>

Anything flaky happen with the bios?

Bob

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>> From: Robert Citek
> 
> 
>> If Ubuntu installed on it before and now it doesn't finish booting
>> from the Ubuntu CD, then it sounds like a hardware issue.
> 
>  Yup:
> 
>   http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/2009-August/007213.html
> 
>> Two quick tests that can be done with the Ubuntu CD:
>> - test memory -- fourth option down from the boot menu
> 
>  Done, no problems detected.
> 
>> - check cd for defects -- third option down from the boot menu
> 
>  Multiple CDs, both 9.04 and 9.10.
> 
>  It's a hardware thing. What I don't know (yet) is what kind of hardware
> issue it is. I've noted that on OpenSUSE, it logs a few ATA 'device not
> ready' errors before it finally boots. So far, this has not impacted
> operation, but...
> 
>  Sincerely,
> 
>  Ray Ingles                                           (313) 227-2317
> 
>  "When a friend of mine quit his last job, the reason he gave in his
>     notice was 'because Dilbert isn't funny anymore.' In his exit
>    interview, he was asked what he meant by that." - Stefan Bethke
> 
> The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 


From z_mikowski at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 20 02:00:11 2010
From: z_mikowski at yahoo.com (Michael Mikowski)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 23:00:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] Laptop woes - Knoppix boots but Ubuntu doesn't?
In-Reply-To: <4B568C54.7010801@gmail.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E47C@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp><4145b6791001190724g4c9445blbe63c2f9c06e0781@mail.gmail.com><319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E76D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<4145b6791001191147i7e68b153o62002a707406b80@mail.gmail.com>
	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E037045409BF@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<4B568C54.7010801@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <571991.11018.qm@web53301.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

>  It's a hardware thing. What I don't know (yet) is what kind of hardware
> issue it is. I've noted that on OpenSUSE, it logs a few ATA 'device not
> ready' errors before it finally boots. So far, this has not impacted
> operation, but...
> 
Reseat the hard drive?



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Wed Jan 20 08:34:01 2010
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 08:34:01 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Laptop woes - Knoppix boots but Ubuntu doesn't?
In-Reply-To: <571991.11018.qm@web53301.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E47C@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp><4145b6791001190724g4c9445blbe63c2f9c06e0781@mail.gmail.com><319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370441E76D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp><4145b6791001191147i7e68b153o62002a707406b80@mail.gmail.com><319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E037045409BF@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp><4B568C54.7010801@gmail.com>
	<571991.11018.qm@web53301.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E03704540A34@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Michael Mikowski

> >  It's a hardware thing. What I don't know (yet) is what kind of
hardware
> > issue it is. I've noted that on OpenSUSE, it logs a few ATA 'device
not
> > ready' errors before it finally boots. So far, this has not impacted
> > operation, but...
> >
> Reseat the hard drive?

 Two different hard drives (a 30GB and a 40GB), which both work when
hooked up via a USB drive adapter.

 I think it may be the ATA *controller* that's flaked out somewhat.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                    (313) 227-2317

 "Improvements succeeded each other so rapidly, that machines
 which had never been finished were abandoned in the hands of
 their makers, because new improvements had superceded their
             utility." - Charles Babbage, 1832

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.



From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 20 08:57:55 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 05:57:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] Open Suse Boxed ver. ???
Message-ID: <24949.84624.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

What is up with the boxed version of open suse 11.2? We normally get the version right away.


David C. Lane


      


From micorral at comcast.net  Wed Jan 20 12:00:06 2010
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 17:00:06 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [mdlug] [Hardware] Replacing an LCD backlight
In-Reply-To: <1813499031.11886631264006737971.JavaMail.root@sz0169a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1606166958.11887161264006806237.JavaMail.root@sz0169a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

Not Linux-related, just wondering if anyone here has ever replaced the
backlight tube/inverter on an LCD. For several months my Samsung SyncMaster
930B would be dim and flicker for several minutes when it gets powered on,
then it would come up to full brightness. But this morning it flickered
briefly then went black. I've checked the video and power cables, they're fine.

I looked up on the web to find that LCD backlights have a lifetime of about
40k hours, which is about 55 months. I've had mine for 56 months, and the 3-year
warranty has long since expired. I'm curious if it would cost more to have the
backlight replaced than just getting a new 19" (or larger) LCD. If anyone here
has any experience with this I'd appreciate any info you have. Thanks.

Michael


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Jan 20 17:45:40 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 17:45:40 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] [Hardware] Replacing an LCD backlight
In-Reply-To: <1606166958.11887161264006806237.JavaMail.root@sz0169a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
References: <1813499031.11886631264006737971.JavaMail.root@sz0169a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<1606166958.11887161264006806237.JavaMail.root@sz0169a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <b02c40e91001201445o4cc94867i8c3ee0fbea38ad3e@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net> wrote:
> Not Linux-related, just wondering if anyone here has ever replaced the
> backlight tube/inverter on an LCD. For several months my Samsung SyncMaster
> 930B would be dim and flicker for several minutes when it gets powered on,
> then it would come up to full brightness. But this morning it flickered
> briefly then went black. I've checked the video and power cables, they're fine.
>
> I looked up on the web to find that LCD backlights have a lifetime of about
> 40k hours, which is about 55 months. I've had mine for 56 months, and the 3-year
> warranty has long since expired. I'm curious if it would cost more to have the
> backlight replaced than just getting a new 19" (or larger) LCD. If anyone here
> has any experience with this I'd appreciate any info you have. Thanks.
>

That is a large amount of time.  Is your LCD on continuously?

It's possible that the inverter failed, not the bulb.


From petertheplumber at att.net  Wed Jan 20 18:30:41 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 18:30:41 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] [MOSG] Fw:  [Hardware] Replacing an LCD backlight
In-Reply-To: <4B577131.8020706@comcast.net>
References: <20100120155343.1202af87@Nokia-N800-43-7>
	<4B577131.8020706@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1264030241.4604.184.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

On Wed, 2010-01-20 at 16:10 -0500, Richard Zimmerman wrote:
> Yes and no... On the Thinkpad the backlight did go but, but turned out 
> to be a loose connection.
> 
> Richard
> 
> / On a sidebar the Thinkpad is still alive running a dual boot Vector 
> Linux 6.0 Standard Gold and Windows 7!
> // Has the famous memory slot problem again too
> /// Running on a 1g ram stick
> 
> 
> 
> On 1/20/2010 3:53 PM, Peter Bart wrote:
> >
> > Begin forwarded message:
> >
> > Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 17:00:06 +0000 (UTC)
> > From: Michael Corral<micorral at comcast.net>
> > To: mdlug at mdlug.org
> > Subject: [mdlug] [Hardware] Replacing an LCD backlight
> >
> >
> > Not Linux-related, just wondering if anyone here has ever replaced the
> > backlight tube/inverter on an LCD. For several months my Samsung
> > SyncMaster 930B would be dim and flicker for several minutes when it
> > gets powered on, then it would come up to full brightness. But this
> > morning it flickered briefly then went black. I've checked the video
> > and power cables, they're fine.
> >
> > I looked up on the web to find that LCD backlights have a lifetime of
> > about 40k hours, which is about 55 months. I've had mine for 56 months,
> > and the 3-year warranty has long since expired. I'm curious if it would
> > cost more to have the backlight replaced than just getting a new
> > 19" (or larger) LCD. If anyone here has any experience with this I'd
> > appreciate any info you have. Thanks.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > Richard,
> >      Didn't you do something like this with one of those Thinkpads?
> >    
> 

-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber



From Stan at mcomputersolutions.com  Wed Jan 20 20:48:11 2010
From: Stan at mcomputersolutions.com (Stan Green)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 20:48:11 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Looking for GIMP expert to do a presentation
Message-ID: <201001202048.12066.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>

There is an Open Source (i.e. more than just Linux) group starting up at Walsh 
College that is looking for people to present. One area I think they would be 
interested in is graphics editing. I can get around in GIMP, but am by no means 
an expert.

So, are there any GIMP experts that would have a Sat AM free in Feb or Mar to do 
this? 

Thanks,
Stan


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 20 23:25:09 2010
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 23:25:09 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] [Hardware] Replacing an LCD backlight
In-Reply-To: <1606166958.11887161264006806237.JavaMail.root@sz0169a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
References: <1813499031.11886631264006737971.JavaMail.root@sz0169a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<1606166958.11887161264006806237.JavaMail.root@sz0169a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <b67fb0381001202025k19f58e16i11ff41aa370f8e6e@mail.gmail.com>

--- Michael Corral wrote:

> Not Linux-related, just wondering if anyone here has ever replaced the
> backlight tube/inverter on an LCD. For several months my Samsung SyncMaster
> 930B would be dim and flicker for several minutes when it gets powered on,
> then it would come up to full brightness. But this morning it flickered
> briefly then went black. I've checked the video and power cables, they're fine.

As someone that has actually repaired monitors for a living, I would
say that you are probably better off replacing the monitor at this
point--both because of the long-term use that the old one has seen and
because a LOT of improvements have been made to LCD monitors in the
last 4 years.  In fact, I JUST bought my very first LCD monitor--with
an LED backlight (I held off partly because I am no fan of CCFL
backlights).  Though I still think that CRTs have an image advantage
over LCDs (more and truer colors, for example), I must say that I
really like my AOC 22" monitor overall and I'm happy that I got it.

~~ Michael Rudas
    My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
    My Linux/FOSS Protopage links:
<http://www.protopage.com/mprudas#Main/Linux_FOSS>


From micorral at comcast.net  Thu Jan 21 00:16:52 2010
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 00:16:52 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] [Hardware] Replacing an LCD backlight
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0381001202025k19f58e16i11ff41aa370f8e6e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1813499031.11886631264006737971.JavaMail.root@sz0169a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<1606166958.11887161264006806237.JavaMail.root@sz0169a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<b67fb0381001202025k19f58e16i11ff41aa370f8e6e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.1001210007350.3478@banana.sluggo.net>

2010-01-20, Monsieur Michael Rudas a ecrit:
> As someone that has actually repaired monitors for a living, I would
> say that you are probably better off replacing the monitor at this
> point--both because of the long-term use that the old one has seen and
> because a LOT of improvements have been made to LCD monitors in the
> last 4 years.

Yeah, I figured as much, so I ended up buying a 23" Acer LCD monitor
at Microcenter tonight for $170, which is about half the price that I
paid for the 19" Samsung LCD 5 years ago. I like it.

Michael


From tesral at wowway.com  Thu Jan 21 09:00:05 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 09:00:05 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] [Hardware] Replacing an LCD backlight
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0381001202025k19f58e16i11ff41aa370f8e6e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1813499031.11886631264006737971.JavaMail.root@sz0169a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>	<1606166958.11887161264006806237.JavaMail.root@sz0169a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<b67fb0381001202025k19f58e16i11ff41aa370f8e6e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B585DE5.9090508@wowway.com>

Michael Rudas wrote:
> As someone that has actually repaired monitors for a living, I would
> say that you are probably better off replacing the monitor at this
> point--both because of the long-term use that the old one has seen and
> because a LOT of improvements have been made to LCD monitors in the
> last 4 years.  In fact, I JUST bought my very first LCD monitor--with
> an LED backlight (I held off partly because I am no fan of CCFL
> backlights).  Though I still think that CRTs have an image advantage
> over LCDs (more and truer colors, for example), I must say that I
> really like my AOC 22" monitor overall and I'm happy that I got it.
>   
I don't know about the color thing.  I have excellent color perception
(Yes it was tested)  They look good to me.  What I do notice with some
is that the angle you view it at changes your perception of what is on
the screen.  My Thinkpad T-61 is bad for that.  The Acer 23" is not. 
Secondly CRTs I noticed vary from set to set on how things looked.  So
they were not that true.  NTSC  Never Twice Same Color.

That said, I'll second the recommendation.  I paid $150 for a 23 inch 
1920x1080 monitor that I have no complaints about.  It's the second LCD
I have had and blows the previous one (which was good) out of the
water.  The things have simply gotten too inexpensive to fix.  Outside
of a laptop, in which the computer is part of the deal I don't think I
would.  Stand alone monitors are dirt cheap for good quality.  Inside of
a laptop is to damn hot to work anyway.


-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? -Mohandas K. Gandhi  
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From tesral at wowway.com  Thu Jan 21 09:01:08 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 09:01:08 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] [Hardware] Replacing an LCD backlight
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.00.1001210007350.3478@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <1813499031.11886631264006737971.JavaMail.root@sz0169a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>	<1606166958.11887161264006806237.JavaMail.root@sz0169a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>	<b67fb0381001202025k19f58e16i11ff41aa370f8e6e@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1001210007350.3478@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <4B585E24.90801@wowway.com>

Michael Corral wrote:
> Yeah, I figured as much, so I ended up buying a 23" Acer LCD monitor
> at Microcenter tonight for $170, which is about half the price that I
> paid for the 19" Samsung LCD 5 years ago. I like it.
>   

Looks like you have the same model I do.  Sweet monitor.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? -Mohandas K. Gandhi  
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From robert.citek at gmail.com  Thu Jan 21 09:01:26 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 09:01:26 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] sharing a remote desktop between two remote users
Message-ID: <4145b6791001210601v656fc265i62a46274743f3ab7@mail.gmail.com>

How can one share a desktop between two remote users?

I have a headless machine which I routinely ssh into.  What I would
like to do is "remote desktop" into the headless machine and then
share that remote desktop with another remote user.  Is this possible
and, if so, what keywords should I be googling for?  Hits for "sharing
remote desktop" assume that you have a console desktop, which I do
not.

Thanks in advance for any pointers.

Regards,
- Robert


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 21 09:38:01 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 06:38:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] sharing a remote desktop between two remote users
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791001210601v656fc265i62a46274743f3ab7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4145b6791001210601v656fc265i62a46274743f3ab7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <207764.79875.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

There are also KVM switches, it is a simple solution.

David C. Lane 





________________________________
From: Robert Citek <robert.citek at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Thu, January 21, 2010 9:01:26 AM
Subject: [mdlug] sharing a remote desktop between two remote users

How can one share a desktop between two remote users?

I have a headless machine which I routinely ssh into.? What I would
like to do is "remote desktop" into the headless machine and then
share that remote desktop with another remote user.? Is this possible
and, if so, what keywords should I be googling for?? Hits for "sharing
remote desktop" assume that you have a console desktop, which I do
not.

Thanks in advance for any pointers.

Regards,
- Robert
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      


From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Thu Jan 21 10:21:20 2010
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 10:21:20 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] sharing a remote desktop between two remote users
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791001210601v656fc265i62a46274743f3ab7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4145b6791001210601v656fc265i62a46274743f3ab7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46901ED025D54@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

Vnc allows you to remote in and share out what you're doing.

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Robert Citek
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 9:01 AM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: [mdlug] sharing a remote desktop between two remote users

How can one share a desktop between two remote users?

I have a headless machine which I routinely ssh into.  What I would
like to do is "remote desktop" into the headless machine and then
share that remote desktop with another remote user.  Is this possible
and, if so, what keywords should I be googling for?  Hits for "sharing
remote desktop" assume that you have a console desktop, which I do
not.

Thanks in advance for any pointers.

Regards,
- Robert
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Thu Jan 21 11:06:53 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 11:06:53 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] sharing a remote desktop between two remote users
In-Reply-To: <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46901ED025D54@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
References: <4145b6791001210601v656fc265i62a46274743f3ab7@mail.gmail.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46901ED025D54@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
Message-ID: <4145b6791001210806p7cd7c6eaod902f3c79db836d@mail.gmail.com>

Any pointers to references which explain how to do this?

For example, this link suggests it can be done but doesn't explain how:

http://www.realvnc.com/vnc/how.html

Regards,
- Robert

On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 10:21 AM, Wojtak, Greg
<GregWojtak at quickenloans.com> wrote:
> Vnc allows you to remote in and share out what you're doing.


From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Thu Jan 21 11:23:47 2010
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 11:23:47 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] sharing a remote desktop between two remote users
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791001210806p7cd7c6eaod902f3c79db836d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4145b6791001210601v656fc265i62a46274743f3ab7@mail.gmail.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46901ED025D54@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4145b6791001210806p7cd7c6eaod902f3c79db836d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46901ED025FC3@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

I haven't done it in years, but I believe you start your remote session into the server normally.  IIRC, you need to set a password on the session which you will share with the person you want to shadow you.  Your shadow will then need to connect to the same server and desktop and use the password you've provided.

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Robert Citek
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 11:07 AM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] sharing a remote desktop between two remote users

Any pointers to references which explain how to do this?

For example, this link suggests it can be done but doesn't explain how:

http://www.realvnc.com/vnc/how.html

Regards,
- Robert

On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 10:21 AM, Wojtak, Greg
<GregWojtak at quickenloans.com> wrote:
> Vnc allows you to remote in and share out what you're doing.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Thu Jan 21 11:45:18 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 11:45:18 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] sharing a remote desktop between two remote users
In-Reply-To: <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46901ED025FC3@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
References: <4145b6791001210601v656fc265i62a46274743f3ab7@mail.gmail.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46901ED025D54@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4145b6791001210806p7cd7c6eaod902f3c79db836d@mail.gmail.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46901ED025FC3@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
Message-ID: <4145b6791001210845g11209296x3286b563b3c87327@mail.gmail.com>

The headless machine is running Ubuntu 9.04 x86_64 Server and local is
running Ubuntu 8.04 i386.

This is what I've tried so far.

On the headless machine:
$ sudo apt-get install tightvncserver
$ tightvncserver
create password

On the local machine:
Applications > Internet > Terminal Server Client
specified computer:port, VNC, and username
on clicking Connect, I entered the password I created for the VNC session

A window then appeared showing my remote desktop (not perfectly, but
good enough for now.)

Opened gedit on the remote desktop with Applications > Accessories >
Text Editor.  However, key entry is completely foobared.  Typing "abc"
produces "asd" and neither the backspace nor escape key works.  And
logging out doesn't quite complete -- there's just a blank desktop.

Regards,
- Robert

On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 11:23 AM, Wojtak, Greg
<GregWojtak at quickenloans.com> wrote:
> I haven't done it in years, but I believe you start your remote session into the server normally. ?IIRC, you need to set a password on the session which you will share with the person you want to shadow you. ?Your shadow will then need to connect to the same server and desktop and use the password you've provided.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Robert Citek
> Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 11:07 AM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] sharing a remote desktop between two remote users
>
> Any pointers to references which explain how to do this?
>
> For example, this link suggests it can be done but doesn't explain how:
>
> http://www.realvnc.com/vnc/how.html
>
> Regards,
> - Robert
>
> On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 10:21 AM, Wojtak, Greg
> <GregWojtak at quickenloans.com> wrote:
>> Vnc allows you to remote in and share out what you're doing.
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From ldaphelp at thuemmel.com  Thu Jan 21 15:08:43 2010
From: ldaphelp at thuemmel.com (Mark Thuemmel)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 15:08:43 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] sharing a remote desktop between two remote users
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791001210845g11209296x3286b563b3c87327@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4145b6791001210601v656fc265i62a46274743f3ab7@mail.gmail.com>	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46901ED025D54@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>	<4145b6791001210806p7cd7c6eaod902f3c79db836d@mail.gmail.com>	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46901ED025FC3@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4145b6791001210845g11209296x3286b563b3c87327@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B58B44B.2050808@thuemmel.com>

How about reset keyboard setting to default in gnome
(system-preferences-keyboard) and then restart vnc?

Robert Citek wrote:
> The headless machine is running Ubuntu 9.04 x86_64 Server and local is
> running Ubuntu 8.04 i386.
> 
> This is what I've tried so far.
> 
> On the headless machine:
> $ sudo apt-get install tightvncserver
> $ tightvncserver
> create password
> 
> On the local machine:
> Applications > Internet > Terminal Server Client
> specified computer:port, VNC, and username
> on clicking Connect, I entered the password I created for the VNC session
> 
> A window then appeared showing my remote desktop (not perfectly, but
> good enough for now.)
> 
> Opened gedit on the remote desktop with Applications > Accessories >
> Text Editor.  However, key entry is completely foobared.  Typing "abc"
> produces "asd" and neither the backspace nor escape key works.  And
> logging out doesn't quite complete -- there's just a blank desktop.
> 
> Regards,


From ldaphelp at thuemmel.com  Thu Jan 21 15:14:07 2010
From: ldaphelp at thuemmel.com (Mark Thuemmel)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 15:14:07 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] sharing a remote desktop between two remote users
In-Reply-To: <4B58B44B.2050808@thuemmel.com>
References: <4145b6791001210601v656fc265i62a46274743f3ab7@mail.gmail.com>	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46901ED025D54@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>	<4145b6791001210806p7cd7c6eaod902f3c79db836d@mail.gmail.com>	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46901ED025FC3@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>	<4145b6791001210845g11209296x3286b563b3c87327@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B58B44B.2050808@thuemmel.com>
Message-ID: <4B58B58F.7090601@thuemmel.com>

or maybe this:

Perhaps you can try this:

1. edit your $HOME/.vnc/xstartup
2. put the line "export XKL_XMODMAP_DISABLE=1" before your gnome-session.
3. restart vncserver.

credit to this link.
http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=190865#c7


Mark Thuemmel wrote:
> How about reset keyboard setting to default in gnome
> (system-preferences-keyboard) and then restart vnc?
> 
> Robert Citek wrote:
>> The headless machine is running Ubuntu 9.04 x86_64 Server and local is
>> running Ubuntu 8.04 i386.
>>
>> This is what I've tried so far.
>>
>> On the headless machine:
>> $ sudo apt-get install tightvncserver
>> $ tightvncserver
>> create password
>>
>> On the local machine:
>> Applications > Internet > Terminal Server Client
>> specified computer:port, VNC, and username
>> on clicking Connect, I entered the password I created for the VNC session
>>
>> A window then appeared showing my remote desktop (not perfectly, but
>> good enough for now.)
>>
>> Opened gedit on the remote desktop with Applications > Accessories >
>> Text Editor.  However, key entry is completely foobared.  Typing "abc"
>> produces "asd" and neither the backspace nor escape key works.  And
>> logging out doesn't quite complete -- there's just a blank desktop.
>>
>> Regards,
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 



From robert.citek at gmail.com  Thu Jan 21 16:10:55 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 16:10:55 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] sharing a remote desktop between two remote users
In-Reply-To: <4B58B58F.7090601@thuemmel.com>
References: <4145b6791001210601v656fc265i62a46274743f3ab7@mail.gmail.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46901ED025D54@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4145b6791001210806p7cd7c6eaod902f3c79db836d@mail.gmail.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46901ED025FC3@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4145b6791001210845g11209296x3286b563b3c87327@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B58B44B.2050808@thuemmel.com> <4B58B58F.7090601@thuemmel.com>
Message-ID: <4145b6791001211310x5e85a028g25d691945a6d7e0e@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks.  That worked well for the keyboard and seemed to make the
desktop look more like a standard Gnome desktop.

There are still a few more minor issues:

- logging out - doesn't seem to finish the sequence but rather hangs
at a blank desktop.  Workaround is to kill the vnc process:

$ cat .vnc/Ubuntu904-64bit\:1.pid | xargs kill

- resizing desktop window - it's just a few pixels too small.  I can
resize it smaller but not larger.  Workaround: scroll up/down and
left/right.

- maximizing desktop window - immediately closes the client connection
with an error.  Workaround: reconnect.

Those are minor annoyances which I can live with and address later.

The question is, how to share the desktop with another remote user?  I
tried connecting again using tsclient from the same machine, but that
didn't work.  It appears as though you can have only one tsclient
connection at a time to a remote server.  Will try from another
machine.

Regards,
- Robert

On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Mark Thuemmel <ldaphelp at thuemmel.com> wrote:
> or maybe this:
>
> Perhaps you can try this:
>
> 1. edit your $HOME/.vnc/xstartup
> 2. put the line "export XKL_XMODMAP_DISABLE=1" before your gnome-session.
> 3. restart vncserver.
>
> credit to this link.
> http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=190865#c7
>
>
> Mark Thuemmel wrote:
>> How about reset keyboard setting to default in gnome
>> (system-preferences-keyboard) and then restart vnc?
>>
>> Robert Citek wrote:
>>> The headless machine is running Ubuntu 9.04 x86_64 Server and local is
>>> running Ubuntu 8.04 i386.
>>>
>>> This is what I've tried so far.
>>>
>>> On the headless machine:
>>> $ sudo apt-get install tightvncserver
>>> $ tightvncserver
>>> create password
>>>
>>> On the local machine:
>>> Applications > Internet > Terminal Server Client
>>> specified computer:port, VNC, and username
>>> on clicking Connect, I entered the password I created for the VNC session
>>>
>>> A window then appeared showing my remote desktop (not perfectly, but
>>> good enough for now.)
>>>
>>> Opened gedit on the remote desktop with Applications > Accessories >
>>> Text Editor. ?However, key entry is completely foobared. ?Typing "abc"
>>> produces "asd" and neither the backspace nor escape key works. ?And
>>> logging out doesn't quite complete -- there's just a blank desktop.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>> _______________________________________________
>> mdlug mailing list
>> mdlug at mdlug.org
>> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Thu Jan 21 16:23:26 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 16:23:26 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] sharing a remote desktop between two remote users
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791001211310x5e85a028g25d691945a6d7e0e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4145b6791001210601v656fc265i62a46274743f3ab7@mail.gmail.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46901ED025D54@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4145b6791001210806p7cd7c6eaod902f3c79db836d@mail.gmail.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46901ED025FC3@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4145b6791001210845g11209296x3286b563b3c87327@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B58B44B.2050808@thuemmel.com> <4B58B58F.7090601@thuemmel.com>
	<4145b6791001211310x5e85a028g25d691945a6d7e0e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4145b6791001211323v42fab0f5ya069b05eee29db67@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Robert Citek <robert.citek at gmail.com> wrote:
> The question is, how to share the desktop with another remote user? ?I
> tried connecting again using tsclient from the same machine, but that
> didn't work. ?It appears as though you can have only one tsclient
> connection at a time to a remote server. ?Will try from another
> machine.

Discovered that I need to start the server in alwaysshared mode:

$ vncserver -alwaysshared

That worked ... at least good enough for now.

Regards,
- Robert


From tony at bemushosting.com  Thu Jan 21 18:04:29 2010
From: tony at bemushosting.com (Tony Bemus)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:04:29 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] sharing a remote desktop between two remote users
Message-ID: <0MIuiv-1NWA8D2Oyn-002Uc1@mrelay.perfora.net>

You could forward x through ssh then share your desktop (either your computer or the server) via VLC.

Tony Bemus
Sent from my smartphone

-----Original Message-----
From: David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 9:38 AM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: Re: [mdlug] sharing a remote desktop between two remote users

There are also KVM switches, it is a simple solution.

David C. Lane 





________________________________
From: Robert Citek <robert.citek at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Thu, January 21, 2010 9:01:26 AM
Subject: [mdlug] sharing a remote desktop between two remote users

How can one share a desktop between two remote users?

I have a headless machine which I routinely ssh into.? What I would
like to do is "remote desktop" into the headless machine and then
share that remote desktop with another remote user.? Is this possible
and, if so, what keywords should I be googling for?? Hits for "sharing
remote desktop" assume that you have a console desktop, which I do
not.

Thanks in advance for any pointers.

Regards,
- Robert
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 22 01:13:38 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 01:13:38 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Sumsing Turbo 3000 Cellphone
Message-ID: <4B594212.3050902@gmail.com>

Who needs an iPhone when you can have this?


<http://www.flixxy.com/sumsing-turbo-3000-cellphone.htm?r=0>


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Fri Jan 22 08:27:51 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 08:27:51 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] sharing a remote desktop between two remote users
In-Reply-To: <0MIuiv-1NWA8D2Oyn-002Uc1@mrelay.perfora.net>
References: <0MIuiv-1NWA8D2Oyn-002Uc1@mrelay.perfora.net>
Message-ID: <4145b6791001220527y7d5ccc83l3544ecf150ff44c6@mail.gmail.com>

I found this link:

http://www.nerdlogger.com/2008/01/stream-your-linuxwindowsmac-desktop-as.html

Is this what you mean?

Regards,
- Robert

On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 6:04 PM, Tony Bemus <tony at bemushosting.com> wrote:
> You could forward x through ssh then share your desktop (either your computer or the server) via VLC.


From petertheplumber at att.net  Fri Jan 22 09:13:31 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 09:13:31 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Sumsing Turbo 3000 Cellphone
In-Reply-To: <4B594212.3050902@gmail.com>
References: <4B594212.3050902@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100122091331.0cf33707@Nokia-N800-43-7>

On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 01:13:38 -0500
Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Who needs an iPhone when you can have this?
> 
> 
> <http://www.flixxy.com/sumsing-turbo-3000-cellphone.htm?r=0>

Haha, too funny!! I'm going to have to save that.

-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber
Sent from a mobile Internet Tablet


From fativi at gmail.com  Fri Jan 22 09:20:28 2010
From: fativi at gmail.com (Brian)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 09:20:28 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] sharing a remote desktop between two remote users
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791001220527y7d5ccc83l3544ecf150ff44c6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <0MIuiv-1NWA8D2Oyn-002Uc1@mrelay.perfora.net>
	<4145b6791001220527y7d5ccc83l3544ecf150ff44c6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6f64e9541001220620g2535fbfbmcc3409bf50d34670@mail.gmail.com>

I think Tony is referring to running "ssh -X <server>" so that ssh
will route X traffic you start from the server back to your local
machine.  This is a great trick for one off programs but I'd stick
with VNC for a full desktop since with a generic ssh X tunnel you
won't get the compression and optimizations that you'd get with VNC.

Neat link :)

On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 8:27 AM, Robert Citek <robert.citek at gmail.com> wrote:
> I found this link:
>
> http://www.nerdlogger.com/2008/01/stream-your-linuxwindowsmac-desktop-as.html
>
> Is this what you mean?
>
> Regards,
> - Robert
>
> On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 6:04 PM, Tony Bemus <tony at bemushosting.com> wrote:
>> You could forward x through ssh then share your desktop (either your computer or the server) via VLC.
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From tesral at wowway.com  Fri Jan 22 10:40:16 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 10:40:16 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Sumsing Turbo 3000 Cellphone
In-Reply-To: <4B594212.3050902@gmail.com>
References: <4B594212.3050902@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B59C6E0.2020600@wowway.com>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> Who needs an iPhone when you can have this?
>   

I'll take two.



-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? -Mohandas K. Gandhi  
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Fri Jan 22 15:26:25 2010
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 15:26:25 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Unencrypted remote X on OpenSuse 11.2?
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E03704540DDF@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>


 Now that the laptop is working (and the battery spontaneously works
again, interestingly; maybe 'cause I'm not explicitly turning ACPI off?)
I've been using it a little. I'd like to remotely display some X apps
from my desktop in the basement, over wifi, to the laptop. I know I can
"ssh -X yadda yadda", and that works... but it's a bit slow and laggy.

 Instead, I experimented with the old "xhost +<hostname>" and setting
the DISPLAY variable... but I get "Can't open display" errors, even
though things are definitely set up correctly. After some Googling, I
tried setting the X server option "DisallowTCP" to "false", and
rebooting... but no dice. I saw references in my Googles that recent X
servers have removed the ability to listen via TCP at the source level?
Is it really just *not possible* anymore to do straightforward remote X?

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                        (313) 227-2317

  "Rune Slot is the first culturally accurate depiction of what
   might have happened if one of the Vikings' slot machines had
     gone nuts, walked off with their Sorrowbringer, and then
 started murdering them. It's also got the best payouts in town!
       Though it might eat your soul." - Old Man Murray

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.



From danno at umich.edu  Fri Jan 22 17:35:31 2010
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 17:35:31 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Unencrypted remote X on OpenSuse 11.2?
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E03704540DDF@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E03704540DDF@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <20100122223531.GA50063@maniac.deathstar.org>

On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 03:26:25PM -0500, Ingles, Raymond wrote:
> from my desktop in the basement, over wifi, to the laptop. I know I can
> "ssh -X yadda yadda", and that works... but it's a bit slow and laggy.

my experience suggests that ssh encryption is not your problem, 
rather your wifi.  Try it over a hardwired connection.

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From davidl at lmert.com  Fri Jan 22 23:32:46 2010
From: davidl at lmert.com (David Lee Lambert)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 23:32:46 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] sharing a remote desktop between two remote users
In-Reply-To: <6f64e9541001220620g2535fbfbmcc3409bf50d34670@mail.gmail.com>
References: <0MIuiv-1NWA8D2Oyn-002Uc1@mrelay.perfora.net>
	<4145b6791001220527y7d5ccc83l3544ecf150ff44c6@mail.gmail.com>
	<6f64e9541001220620g2535fbfbmcc3409bf50d34670@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c5df8cf61001222032h78317808n21a1d17767925b72@mail.gmail.com>

It's possible to write an X windows program to talk to multiple servers at
once,  so that people can interact with it from multiple displays.  Emacs is
the only one I'm familiar with that actually takes advantage of that
feature.

VNC is great for actually sharing a desktop with someone,  but if a single
person is interacting with a graphical program on a remote server,
sometimes X over ssh (or X over ssh without compression, or X over straight
TCP;  gnome still has an XDMCP server) gives a better experience.  For one
thing,  you don't get the window-in-a-window effect.



--
DLL


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sat Jan 23 21:11:49 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 21:11:49 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] GNU sed weirdness
Message-ID: <b02c40e91001231811u11bbcc2ay598eb5b3ab769fdc@mail.gmail.com>

With GNU sed on Ubuntu 8.04 I'm wrote a simple script that takes in a
Windows full-path file listing and changes it to a Windows 7-zip
compression batch file.  It uses back references get the parent
directory path and filename.  There are several files that have the
same name but with different extensions and I just want to put all the
ones that match by filename into the same 7z file.  I wanted to use
variables for the 7-zip path, target directory, and compression
options.  Because of spaces in the directory and file names I need to
embed quotes.  To keep the sed command from getting really ugly I
split it up into a single-quoted search, double-quoted (because of
variable expansions) replacement for the variables followed by
single-quoted replacement for the back references.  The back
references \1 holds the directory path and \2 holds the filename
without extension.  What I though was the correct form looks like
this:

sed -n 's/\(.*\)\\\(.*\)\.idx/'"\"$compress_exe\" $compress_opts
\"$target_dir\\"'\2'".$compress_ext"'\" \"\1\\2.*\"/p' $1

Broken up:
sed -n 's/\(.*\)\\\(.*\)\.idx/'
"\"$compress_exe\" $compress_opts \"$target_dir\\"
'\2'
".$compress_ext"
'\" \"\1\\2.*\"/p' $1

Basic input is:
compress_exe='c:\\Program Files\\7-Zip\\7z.exe'
compress_ext='7z'
compress_opts='a -mx=7 -ms=on -wD:\\'
target_dir='D:\\archive'

filelist.txt ($1):
D:\data\20100123.idx (the directory contains several other files with
the same path/name but with different extensions)
...

Desired output is:
"c:\Program Files\7-Zip\7z.exe" a -mx=7 -ms=on -wD:\
"D:\archive\20100123.7z" "D:\data\20100123.*"

Not too complicated but it doesn't work.  I tried different quotes and
escape orders but always end up with:
"c:\Program Files\7-Zip\7z.exe" a -mx=7 -ms=on -wD:\ "D:\archive\2.7z"
"D:\data\20100123.*"

For some reason it seems that sed gets confused by the double-quoted
escaped backslash and the following single-quoted back reference \2.
Either it prints nothing or uses the back reference index literally.
The only way I could get it to work was to move the backslash into the
variable instead:

target_dir='D:\\archive\\'

sed -n 's/\(.*\)\\\(.*\)\.idx/'"\"$compress_exe\" $compress_opts
\"$target_dir"'\2'".$compress_ext"'\" \"\1\2.*\"/p' $1

This worked.  Is there something fundamental I'm overlooking with the
earlier version or is it a bug?


From devanhoe at gmail.com  Sat Jan 23 21:16:13 2010
From: devanhoe at gmail.com (Dennis VanHoey)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 21:16:13 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] GNU sed weirdness
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e91001231811u11bbcc2ay598eb5b3ab769fdc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e91001231811u11bbcc2ay598eb5b3ab769fdc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <615fa0ed1001231816p4f64215s31f01d3d1535151d@mail.gmail.com>

have you tried using the forward slash instead? (not that I have recently
used sed) but normally gnu tools will accept a forward slash and translate
it internally.

On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 9:11 PM, Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com> wrote:

> With GNU sed on Ubuntu 8.04 I'm wrote a simple script that takes in a
> Windows full-path file listing and changes it to a Windows 7-zip
> compression batch file.  It uses back references get the parent
> directory path and filename.  There are several files that have the
> same name but with different extensions and I just want to put all the
> ones that match by filename into the same 7z file.  I wanted to use
> variables for the 7-zip path, target directory, and compression
> options.  Because of spaces in the directory and file names I need to
> embed quotes.  To keep the sed command from getting really ugly I
> split it up into a single-quoted search, double-quoted (because of
> variable expansions) replacement for the variables followed by
> single-quoted replacement for the back references.  The back
> references \1 holds the directory path and \2 holds the filename
> without extension.  What I though was the correct form looks like
> this:
>
> sed -n 's/\(.*\)\\\(.*\)\.idx/'"\"$compress_exe\" $compress_opts
> \"$target_dir\\"'\2'".$compress_ext"'\" \"\1\\2.*\"/p' $1
>
> Broken up:
> sed -n 's/\(.*\)\\\(.*\)\.idx/'
> "\"$compress_exe\" $compress_opts \"$target_dir\\"
> '\2'
> ".$compress_ext"
> '\" \"\1\\2.*\"/p' $1
>
> Basic input is:
> compress_exe='c:\\Program Files\\7-Zip\\7z.exe'
> compress_ext='7z'
> compress_opts='a -mx=7 -ms=on -wD:\\'
> target_dir='D:\\archive'
>
> filelist.txt ($1):
> D:\data\20100123.idx (the directory contains several other files with
> the same path/name but with different extensions)
> ...
>
> Desired output is:
> "c:\Program Files\7-Zip\7z.exe" a -mx=7 -ms=on -wD:\
> "D:\archive\20100123.7z" "D:\data\20100123.*"
>
> Not too complicated but it doesn't work.  I tried different quotes and
> escape orders but always end up with:
> "c:\Program Files\7-Zip\7z.exe" a -mx=7 -ms=on -wD:\ "D:\archive\2.7z"
> "D:\data\20100123.*"
>
> For some reason it seems that sed gets confused by the double-quoted
> escaped backslash and the following single-quoted back reference \2.
> Either it prints nothing or uses the back reference index literally.
> The only way I could get it to work was to move the backslash into the
> variable instead:
>
> target_dir='D:\\archive\\'
>
> sed -n 's/\(.*\)\\\(.*\)\.idx/'"\"$compress_exe\" $compress_opts
> \"$target_dir"'\2'".$compress_ext"'\" \"\1\2.*\"/p' $1
>
> This worked.  Is there something fundamental I'm overlooking with the
> earlier version or is it a bug?
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From carl at carltm.com  Sat Jan 23 21:24:29 2010
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 21:24:29 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] GNU sed weirdness
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e91001231811u11bbcc2ay598eb5b3ab769fdc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e91001231811u11bbcc2ay598eb5b3ab769fdc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8da7b593c48874522fa7172ffc3f810d.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> without extension.  What I though was the correct form looks like
> this:
>
> sed -n 's/\(.*\)\\\(.*\)\.idx/'"\"$compress_exe\" $compress_opts
> \"$target_dir\\"'\2'".$compress_ext"'\" \"\1\\2.*\"/p' $1

I think the key part is the \1\\2 which I understand you
want to be \1 followed by a \ followed by \2.  If that's
right, it is being interpreted as \1, \\ and 2.  Try using
\1\\\2 and see it that gets the desired results.

c




From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sat Jan 23 21:32:53 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 21:32:53 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] GNU sed weirdness
In-Reply-To: <8da7b593c48874522fa7172ffc3f810d.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
References: <b02c40e91001231811u11bbcc2ay598eb5b3ab769fdc@mail.gmail.com>
	<8da7b593c48874522fa7172ffc3f810d.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e91001231832s4359f693q6e9dcd187c340445@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 9:24 PM, Carl T. Miller <carl at carltm.com> wrote:
> Jeff Hanson wrote:
>> without extension. ?What I though was the correct form looks like
>> this:
>>
>> sed -n 's/\(.*\)\\\(.*\)\.idx/'"\"$compress_exe\" $compress_opts
>> \"$target_dir\\"'\2'".$compress_ext"'\" \"\1\\2.*\"/p' $1
>
> I think the key part is the \1\\2 which I understand you
> want to be \1 followed by a \ followed by \2. ?If that's
> right, it is being interpreted as \1, \\ and 2. ?Try using
> \1\\\2 and see it that gets the desired results.
>

That was a typo I caught that just after I posted.  The earlier
$target_dir"'\2 section was the one I was having problems with.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sat Jan 23 21:33:57 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 21:33:57 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] GNU sed weirdness
In-Reply-To: <615fa0ed1001231816p4f64215s31f01d3d1535151d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e91001231811u11bbcc2ay598eb5b3ab769fdc@mail.gmail.com>
	<615fa0ed1001231816p4f64215s31f01d3d1535151d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e91001231833p792768cbo8ed97e8badf8e7b@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 9:16 PM, Dennis VanHoey <devanhoe at gmail.com> wrote:
> have you tried using the forward slash instead? (not that I have recently
> used sed) but normally gnu tools will accept a forward slash and translate
> it internally.
>

I'm not sure what you mean.  Use / as an escape?


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sat Jan 23 21:35:17 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 21:35:17 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] GNU sed weirdness
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e91001231832s4359f693q6e9dcd187c340445@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e91001231811u11bbcc2ay598eb5b3ab769fdc@mail.gmail.com>
	<8da7b593c48874522fa7172ffc3f810d.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
	<b02c40e91001231832s4359f693q6e9dcd187c340445@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e91001231835r3582e115je19193ca982d69d1@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 9:32 PM, Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 9:24 PM, Carl T. Miller <carl at carltm.com> wrote:
>> Jeff Hanson wrote:
>>> without extension. ?What I though was the correct form looks like
>>> this:
>>>
>>> sed -n 's/\(.*\)\\\(.*\)\.idx/'"\"$compress_exe\" $compress_opts
>>> \"$target_dir\\"'\2'".$compress_ext"'\" \"\1\\2.*\"/p' $1
>>
>> I think the key part is the \1\\2 which I understand you
>> want to be \1 followed by a \ followed by \2. ?If that's
>> right, it is being interpreted as \1, \\ and 2. ?Try using
>> \1\\\2 and see it that gets the desired results.
>>
>
> That was a typo I caught that just after I posted. ?The earlier
> $target_dir"'\2 section was the one I was having problems with.
>

I meant $target_dir\\"'\2'" (the other was my corrected version which
had the backslash in the variable instead)


From devanhoe at gmail.com  Sat Jan 23 21:54:07 2010
From: devanhoe at gmail.com (Dennis VanHoey)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 21:54:07 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] GNU sed weirdness
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e91001231833p792768cbo8ed97e8badf8e7b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e91001231811u11bbcc2ay598eb5b3ab769fdc@mail.gmail.com>
	<615fa0ed1001231816p4f64215s31f01d3d1535151d@mail.gmail.com>
	<b02c40e91001231833p792768cbo8ed97e8badf8e7b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <615fa0ed1001231854s78f61e45gce42a48bf9c4b8e8@mail.gmail.com>

no as a directory separator, if its practical.

On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 9:33 PM, Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 9:16 PM, Dennis VanHoey <devanhoe at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > have you tried using the forward slash instead? (not that I have recently
> > used sed) but normally gnu tools will accept a forward slash and
> translate
> > it internally.
> >
>
> I'm not sure what you mean.  Use / as an escape?
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From driveray at ameritech.net  Sun Jan 24 00:48:02 2010
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 00:48:02 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] GNU sed weirdness
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e91001231811u11bbcc2ay598eb5b3ab769fdc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e91001231811u11bbcc2ay598eb5b3ab769fdc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B5BDF12.90303@ameritech.net>

Jeff:
While I haven't parsed exactly what you are trying to do, I do have one
comment.

The "sed s" construct can use characters other than the forward slash as
its field delimiter. Strictly speaking, sed treats the first character
after the 's' as its delimiter. In practice some characters work better
than others. If I'm parsing strings with lots of slashes in the, like
path strings generated in Windows, I use '%' as it rarely appears in
filenames. Thus:

$ cat filelist.txt | sed s%.EXE%.exe%g >>filelist.tmp

should change all instances of '.EXE' to '.exe' in an input file full of
Windows generated filenames.

Since your example contains no '%'s this should help.

Raymond McLaughlin

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> With GNU sed on Ubuntu 8.04 I'm wrote a simple script that takes in a
> Windows full-path file listing and changes it to a Windows 7-zip
> compression batch file.  It uses back references get the parent
> directory path and filename.  There are several files that have the
> same name but with different extensions and I just want to put all the
> ones that match by filename into the same 7z file.  I wanted to use
> variables for the 7-zip path, target directory, and compression
> options.  Because of spaces in the directory and file names I need to
> embed quotes.  To keep the sed command from getting really ugly I
> split it up into a single-quoted search, double-quoted (because of
> variable expansions) replacement for the variables followed by
> single-quoted replacement for the back references.  The back
> references \1 holds the directory path and \2 holds the filename
> without extension.  What I though was the correct form looks like
> this:
> 
> sed -n 's/\(.*\)\\\(.*\)\.idx/'"\"$compress_exe\" $compress_opts
> \"$target_dir\\"'\2'".$compress_ext"'\" \"\1\\2.*\"/p' $1
> 
> Broken up:
> sed -n 's/\(.*\)\\\(.*\)\.idx/'
> "\"$compress_exe\" $compress_opts \"$target_dir\\"
> '\2'
> ".$compress_ext"
> '\" \"\1\\2.*\"/p' $1
> 
> Basic input is:
> compress_exe='c:\\Program Files\\7-Zip\\7z.exe'
> compress_ext='7z'
> compress_opts='a -mx=7 -ms=on -wD:\\'
> target_dir='D:\\archive'
> 
> filelist.txt ($1):
> D:\data\20100123.idx (the directory contains several other files with
> the same path/name but with different extensions)
> ...
> 
> Desired output is:
> "c:\Program Files\7-Zip\7z.exe" a -mx=7 -ms=on -wD:\
> "D:\archive\20100123.7z" "D:\data\20100123.*"
> 
> Not too complicated but it doesn't work.  I tried different quotes and
> escape orders but always end up with:
> "c:\Program Files\7-Zip\7z.exe" a -mx=7 -ms=on -wD:\ "D:\archive\2.7z"
> "D:\data\20100123.*"
> 
> For some reason it seems that sed gets confused by the double-quoted
> escaped backslash and the following single-quoted back reference \2.
> Either it prints nothing or uses the back reference index literally.
> The only way I could get it to work was to move the backslash into the
> variable instead:
> 
> target_dir='D:\\archive\\'
> 
> sed -n 's/\(.*\)\\\(.*\)\.idx/'"\"$compress_exe\" $compress_opts
> \"$target_dir"'\2'".$compress_ext"'\" \"\1\2.*\"/p' $1
> 
> This worked.  Is there something fundamental I'm overlooking with the
> earlier version or is it a bug?
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 



From driveray at ameritech.net  Sun Jan 24 01:08:08 2010
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 01:08:08 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] GNU sed weirdness
In-Reply-To: <4B5BDF12.90303@ameritech.net>
References: <b02c40e91001231811u11bbcc2ay598eb5b3ab769fdc@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B5BDF12.90303@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <4B5BE3C8.3050707@ameritech.net>

Looking again, it might not be much help. Sorry.

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Jeff:
> While I haven't parsed exactly what you are trying to do, I do have one
> comment.
> 
> The "sed s" construct can use characters other than the forward slash as
> its field delimiter. Strictly speaking, sed treats the first character
> after the 's' as its delimiter. In practice some characters work better
> than others. If I'm parsing strings with lots of slashes in the, like
> path strings generated in Windows, I use '%' as it rarely appears in
> filenames. Thus:
> 
> $ cat filelist.txt | sed s%.EXE%.exe%g >>filelist.tmp
> 
> should change all instances of '.EXE' to '.exe' in an input file full of
> Windows generated filenames.
> 
> Since your example contains no '%'s this should help.
> 
> Raymond McLaughlin
> 
> Jeff Hanson wrote:
>> With GNU sed on Ubuntu 8.04 I'm wrote a simple script that takes in a
>> Windows full-path file listing and changes it to a Windows 7-zip
>> compression batch file.  It uses back references get the parent
>> directory path and filename.  There are several files that have the
>> same name but with different extensions and I just want to put all the
>> ones that match by filename into the same 7z file.  I wanted to use
>> variables for the 7-zip path, target directory, and compression
>> options.  Because of spaces in the directory and file names I need to
>> embed quotes.  To keep the sed command from getting really ugly I
>> split it up into a single-quoted search, double-quoted (because of
>> variable expansions) replacement for the variables followed by
>> single-quoted replacement for the back references.  The back
>> references \1 holds the directory path and \2 holds the filename
>> without extension.  What I though was the correct form looks like
>> this:
>>
>> sed -n 's/\(.*\)\\\(.*\)\.idx/'"\"$compress_exe\" $compress_opts
>> \"$target_dir\\"'\2'".$compress_ext"'\" \"\1\\2.*\"/p' $1
>>
>> Broken up:
>> sed -n 's/\(.*\)\\\(.*\)\.idx/'
>> "\"$compress_exe\" $compress_opts \"$target_dir\\"
>> '\2'
>> ".$compress_ext"
>> '\" \"\1\\2.*\"/p' $1
>>
>> Basic input is:
>> compress_exe='c:\\Program Files\\7-Zip\\7z.exe'
>> compress_ext='7z'
>> compress_opts='a -mx=7 -ms=on -wD:\\'
>> target_dir='D:\\archive'
>>
>> filelist.txt ($1):
>> D:\data\20100123.idx (the directory contains several other files with
>> the same path/name but with different extensions)
>> ...
>>
>> Desired output is:
>> "c:\Program Files\7-Zip\7z.exe" a -mx=7 -ms=on -wD:\
>> "D:\archive\20100123.7z" "D:\data\20100123.*"
>>
>> Not too complicated but it doesn't work.  I tried different quotes and
>> escape orders but always end up with:
>> "c:\Program Files\7-Zip\7z.exe" a -mx=7 -ms=on -wD:\ "D:\archive\2.7z"
>> "D:\data\20100123.*"
>>
>> For some reason it seems that sed gets confused by the double-quoted
>> escaped backslash and the following single-quoted back reference \2.
>> Either it prints nothing or uses the back reference index literally.
>> The only way I could get it to work was to move the backslash into the
>> variable instead:
>>
>> target_dir='D:\\archive\\'
>>
>> sed -n 's/\(.*\)\\\(.*\)\.idx/'"\"$compress_exe\" $compress_opts
>> \"$target_dir"'\2'".$compress_ext"'\" \"\1\2.*\"/p' $1
>>
>> This worked.  Is there something fundamental I'm overlooking with the
>> earlier version or is it a bug?
>> _______________________________________________
>> mdlug mailing list
>> mdlug at mdlug.org
>> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sun Jan 24 01:31:28 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 01:31:28 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] GNU sed weirdness
In-Reply-To: <4B5BE3C8.3050707@ameritech.net>
References: <b02c40e91001231811u11bbcc2ay598eb5b3ab769fdc@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B5BDF12.90303@ameritech.net> <4B5BE3C8.3050707@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <b02c40e91001232231j5ecd4e5flecd47791f4d2617a@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 1:08 AM, Raymond McLaughlin
<driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
> Looking again, it might not be much help. Sorry.
>

Thanks for the tip but I thought of that and came to the same conclusion.


From driveray at ameritech.net  Sun Jan 24 01:39:38 2010
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 01:39:38 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] GNU sed weirdness
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e91001232231j5ecd4e5flecd47791f4d2617a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e91001231811u11bbcc2ay598eb5b3ab769fdc@mail.gmail.com>	<4B5BDF12.90303@ameritech.net>
	<4B5BE3C8.3050707@ameritech.net>
	<b02c40e91001232231j5ecd4e5flecd47791f4d2617a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B5BEB2A.3040402@ameritech.net>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 1:08 AM, Raymond McLaughlin
> <driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
>> Looking again, it might not be much help. Sorry.
>>
> 
> Thanks for the tip but I thought of that and came to the same conclusion.

Actually using % instead of / might make the delimiters stand out a bit
better, and would work as well.

I'm still looking at your command string. I'm not sure if or how word
wrap is messing with it.

sed -n 's/\(.*\)\\\(.*\)\.idx/'"\"$compress_exe\" $compress_opts
\"$target_dir\\"'\2'".$compress_ext"'\" \"\1\\2.*\"/p' $1


The first and second double quotes are in the construct: "\"

Are you quoting the backslash, or backslash escaping the second double
quote? if the latter, where is the "mate" to the first double quote?


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sun Jan 24 02:12:31 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 02:12:31 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] GNU sed weirdness
In-Reply-To: <4B5BEB2A.3040402@ameritech.net>
References: <b02c40e91001231811u11bbcc2ay598eb5b3ab769fdc@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B5BDF12.90303@ameritech.net> <4B5BE3C8.3050707@ameritech.net>
	<b02c40e91001232231j5ecd4e5flecd47791f4d2617a@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B5BEB2A.3040402@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <b02c40e91001232312hafca716l1bf4c5e3666e5f7b@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 1:39 AM, Raymond McLaughlin
<driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
> I'm still looking at your command string. I'm not sure if or how word
> wrap is messing with it.
>
> sed -n 's/\(.*\)\\\(.*\)\.idx/'"\"$compress_exe\" $compress_opts
> \"$target_dir\\"'\2'".$compress_ext"'\" \"\1\\2.*\"/p' $1
>
>
> The first and second double quotes are in the construct: "\"
>
> Are you quoting the backslash, or backslash escaping the second double
> quote? if the latter, where is the "mate" to the first double quote?

...idx/'"\"$compress_exe = replacement text starts with terminating
single quote followed by a double quoted section to allow variable
expansion.  The first item added to the output is an embedded double
quote as Windows needs the 7-zip path quoted because of spaces in the
path (i.e. "Program Files").  Then the path is added followed by
another embedded double quote, space, the 7-zip options and another
space.

\"$target_dir\\" = escaped double quote at the start of the target
(.7z) archive path, the path itself from the variable, followed by an
embedded (escaped) backslash.

'\2' = single quoted back-reference (#2 is the filename w/o
extension), with a closing single quote.  This is where sed seems to
get confused between the escaped backslash and the back reference.  I
can't remember all the quote combinations I tried and what the errors
were but this should have worked.

".$compress_ext" = period and 7-zip file extension (.7z).

The rest just reproduces the source file path and filename.  The
effect is to replace the original extension with an * so 7-Zip grabs
all the files with the same names and any extension.


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 24 03:23:14 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 03:23:14 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] GNU sed weirdness
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e91001231811u11bbcc2ay598eb5b3ab769fdc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e91001231811u11bbcc2ay598eb5b3ab769fdc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B5C0372.1080500@gmail.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> With GNU sed on Ubuntu 8.04 I'm wrote a simple script that takes in a
> Windows full-path file listing and changes it to a Windows 7-zip
> compression batch file.  It uses back references get the parent
> directory path and filename.  There are several files that have the
> same name but with different extensions and I just want to put all the
> ones that match by filename into the same 7z file.  I wanted to use
> variables for the 7-zip path, target directory, and compression
> options.  Because of spaces in the directory and file names I need to
> embed quotes.  To keep the sed command from getting really ugly I
> split it up into a single-quoted search, double-quoted (because of
> variable expansions) replacement for the variables followed by
> single-quoted replacement for the back references.  The back
> references \1 holds the directory path and \2 holds the filename
> without extension.  What I though was the correct form looks like
> this:
> 
> sed -n 's/\(.*\)\\\(.*\)\.idx/'"\"$compress_exe\" $compress_opts
> \"$target_dir\\"'\2'".$compress_ext"'\" \"\1\\2.*\"/p' $1
> 



> Broken up:
> sed -n 's/\(.*\)\\\(.*\)\.idx/'
> "\"$compress_exe\" $compress_opts \"$target_dir\\"
> '\2'
> ".$compress_ext"
> '\" \"\1\\2.*\"/p' $1

If in doubt, break the problem down instead of trying to do it
all in one fell swoop as a "one-liner"

One liners are one of the major reasons (the other
being the character set) for APL being a "write-only"
(i.e. unreadable.) language.

Perl suffers from the same problem -- too many perl
coders try to write programs to have the fewest number
of newlines rather than being readable (and hence,
debugable and maintainable and debugable.  Did I
mention debugable?).

You're hitting the outer-edge of sed-ness.
But you are smack dab in the middle of awk-ness.

So, I would suggest redoing this in AWK instead.

(I.e, rather than trying to beating your head trying
to use a pocket knife to whittle a piece of wood into
a smooth, round, baseball bat -- something techinically
possible, but very difficult, just put your piece of
wood on a lathe, and get the job done).

Excellent tutorials here:
<http://cm.bell-labs.com/7thEdMan/>

Volume 1 is the man pages we all know and love (sometimes)
Volume 2a and 2b are the tutorial sections.
<http://cm.bell-labs.com/7thEdMan/vol2/awk>

Download the PDF or postscript files to your
computer, and keep them for reference.
http://cm.bell-labs.com/7thEdMan/bswv7.html

PDF:
<http://cm.bell-labs.com/7thEdMan/v7vol1.pdf>
<http://cm.bell-labs.com/7thEdMan/v7vol2a.pdf>
<http://cm.bell-labs.com/7thEdMan/v7vol2b.pdf>

Postscript:
<http://cm.bell-labs.com/7thEdMan/v7vol1.ps.gz>
<http://cm.bell-labs.com/7thEdMan/v7vol2a.ps.gz>
<http://cm.bell-labs.com/7thEdMan/v7vol2b.ps.gz>


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 24 03:57:37 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 03:57:37 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: [opensuse-offtopic]  Very impressive website]
Message-ID: <4B5C0B81.9060204@gmail.com>



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [opensuse-offtopic]  Very impressive website
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 09:55:29 +0100
From: Per Jessen <per at computer.org>
Organization: Per Jessens personal news-server
To: opensuse-offtopic at opensuse.org

Load up the URL, then just wait, don't click anything:

http://producten.hema.nl/ 

A very impressive piece of work!


/Per Jessen, Z?rich


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sun Jan 24 13:43:40 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 13:43:40 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] GNU sed weirdness
In-Reply-To: <4B5C0372.1080500@gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e91001231811u11bbcc2ay598eb5b3ab769fdc@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B5C0372.1080500@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e91001241043k13ce228exc665f3b72670205a@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 3:23 AM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
> If in doubt, break the problem down instead of trying to do it
> all in one fell swoop as a "one-liner"
>

It isn't really a difficult sed script.

> You're hitting the outer-edge of sed-ness.
> But you are smack dab in the middle of awk-ness.
>
> So, I would suggest redoing this in AWK instead.
>

I used AWK once several years ago so I'm somewhat familiar with it's
capabilities.  For this task sed was almost overkill but due to the
strange behavior it was more difficult than what I expected.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sun Jan 24 13:55:19 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 13:55:19 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: [opensuse-offtopic] Very impressive website]
In-Reply-To: <4B5C0B81.9060204@gmail.com>
References: <4B5C0B81.9060204@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e91001241055g5f1b7cc1y7b8a90ae7cf27e94@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 3:57 AM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
> http://producten.hema.nl/

Nifty but would be distracting if it was an actual shopping site.


From amajorov at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 24 23:18:16 2010
From: amajorov at yahoo.com (Allen Majorovic)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 20:18:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] online backup
Message-ID: <3061.41187.qm@web32606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Lately I've been giving some thought to online backup and when an article popped up about a GUI front end for UbuntuOne I thought I'd give it a look.

In a nutshell you get 2 gig for free and 50 gig for $10 a month.

2 gig is kind of tight but $120 per year for a 50 gig hard drive, albeit a hard drive in a nuclear bomb-proof bunker surrounded by warding spells to keep away evil influences, seems kind of a lot. Anyone know of similar services with a bit more gentle ramp-up between "free" and "paid"?

Allen



      


From jrw32982 at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 24 23:40:40 2010
From: jrw32982 at yahoo.com (John Wiersba)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 20:40:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] GNU sed weirdness
Message-ID: <157317.29788.qm@web52706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Jeff,

I mostly agree with Aaron (quoted below).  But just because you can write unreadable perl doesn't mean that you have to.  I would suggest using perl to rewrite this as perl's towering strength is text manipulation.  In general, perl subsumes and unifies both sed and awk functionality.

The following shell script does what I interpret you want based on your original post.  Since you already have filelist.txt, you can skip the creation and removal of it and just use the perl command.  This script produces the following output:

"c:\Program Files\7-Zip\7z.exe" a -mx=7 -ms=on -wD:\ "D:\archive" "D:\data\20100123.*"

-- John Wiersba

cat <<EOF >filelist.txt
D:\data\20100123.idx
D:\data\20100123.dat
EOF

perl -e '
  for (@ARGV) {
     ($var, $val) = split /=/, $_, 2;
     $opt{$var} = $val;
  }
  $_ = <STDIN>;
  chomp;
  s/\.[^.]+\z/.*/;
  print qq{"$opt{compress_exe}" $opt{compress_opts} "$opt{target_dir}" "$_"\n};
  exit 0;

' compress_exe='c:\Program Files\7-Zip\7z.exe' \
  compress_ext='7z'                            \
  compress_opts='a -mx=7 -ms=on -wD:\'         \
  target_dir='D:\archive'                      \
  < filelist.txt
   
rm filelist.txt


-- John Wiersba


Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 03:23:14 -0500
From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [mdlug] GNU sed weirdness

If in doubt, break the problem down instead of trying to do it
all in one fell swoop as a "one-liner"

One liners are one of the major reasons (the other
being the character set) for APL being a "write-only"
(i.e. unreadable.) language.

Perl suffers from the same problem -- too many perl
coders try to write programs to have the fewest number
of newlines rather than being readable (and hence,
debugable and maintainable and debugable.  Did I
mention debugable?).

You're hitting the outer-edge of sed-ness.
But you are smack dab in the middle of awk-ness.

So, I would suggest redoing this in AWK instead.

(I.e, rather than trying to beating your head trying
to use a pocket knife to whittle a piece of wood into
a smooth, round, baseball bat -- something techinically
possible, but very difficult, just put your piece of
wood on a lathe, and get the job done).


      


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Jan 25 01:33:44 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 01:33:44 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] GNU sed weirdness
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e91001242232r742ae6cbmb4750b80cc840960@mail.gmail.com>
References: <157317.29788.qm@web52706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<b02c40e91001242232r742ae6cbmb4750b80cc840960@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e91001242233j21dac70ah176363b91002ba50@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 11:40 PM, John Wiersba <jrw32982 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Jeff,
>
> I mostly agree with Aaron (quoted below).? But just because you can write
> unreadable perl doesn't mean that you have to.? I would suggest using perl
> to rewrite this as perl's towering strength is text manipulation.? In
> general, perl subsumes and unifies both sed and awk functionality.
>
> The following shell script does what I interpret you want based on your
> original post.? Since you already have filelist.txt, you can skip the
> creation and removal of it and just use the perl command.? This script
> produces the following output:
>
> "c:\Program Files\7-Zip\7z.exe" a -mx=7 -ms=on -wD:\ "D:\archive"
> "D:\data\20100123.*"
>
> -- John Wiersba
>
> cat <<EOF >filelist.txt
> D:\data\20100123.idx
> D:\data\20100123.dat
> EOF
>
> perl -e '
> ? for (@ARGV) {
> ???? ($var, $val) = split /=/, $_, 2;
> ???? $opt{$var} = $val;
> ? }
> ? $_ = <STDIN>;
> ? chomp;
> ? s/\.[^.]+\z/.*/;
> ? print qq{"$opt{compress_exe}" $opt{compress_opts} "$opt{target_dir}"
> "$_"\n};
> ? exit 0;
>
> ' compress_exe='c:\Program Files\7-Zip\7z.exe' \
> ? compress_ext='7z'??????????????????????????? \
> ? compress_opts='a -mx=7 -ms=on -wD:\'???????? \
> ? target_dir='D:\archive'????????????????????? \
> ? < filelist.txt
>
> rm filelist.txt
>
>

Interesting. ?Thanks for the help.


From tesral at wowway.com  Mon Jan 25 09:50:50 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 09:50:50 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] online backup
In-Reply-To: <3061.41187.qm@web32606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <3061.41187.qm@web32606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4B5DAFCA.7080704@wowway.com>

Allen Majorovic wrote:
> Lately I've been giving some thought to online backup and when an article popped up about a GUI front end for UbuntuOne I thought I'd give it a look.
>
> In a nutshell you get 2 gig for free and 50 gig for $10 a month.
>
> 2 gig is kind of tight but $120 per year for a 50 gig hard drive, albeit a hard drive in a nuclear bomb-proof bunker surrounded by warding spells to keep away evil influences, seems kind of a lot. Anyone know of similar services with a bit more gentle ramp-up between "free" and "paid"?
>   

That could go broke and vanish.

Pay $120 (if that much)  for a terabyte and a housing. 

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? -Mohandas K. Gandhi  
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From amajorov at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 25 10:40:41 2010
From: amajorov at yahoo.com (Allen Majorovic)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 07:40:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] online backup
In-Reply-To: <4B5DAFCA.7080704@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <135575.26911.qm@web32606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>



--- On Mon, 1/25/10, Garry Stahl <tesral at wowway.com> wrote:

That could go broke and vanish.

Pay $120 (if that much)? for a terabyte and a housing. 

-- 
Garry? AKA? --Phoenix--? Rising above the Flames.


Not an either/or. I've got a 120 gig drive in an external enclosure of which I use about 24 gig and that's for a full system back up and incremental backups. But I've got about seven or eight gig that I'm sufficiently anxiety-ridden about to want a belt to go with my suspenders.

Allen




      


From Stan at mcomputersolutions.com  Mon Jan 25 19:03:53 2010
From: Stan at mcomputersolutions.com (Stan Green)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 19:03:53 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] online backup
In-Reply-To: <135575.26911.qm@web32606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <135575.26911.qm@web32606.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <201001251903.53508.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>

I have not used it myself, but http://www.adrive.com/ give you 50gb for free.

If you want a bigger player, and willing to pay for it, Amazon S3 (Simple 
Storage Service) http://aws.amazon.com/s3/ is $0.15 per GB. You pay only for 
what you use. It is not much cheaper if you are going to need the whole 50gb, 
but for less data, it does bring the cost down. But hurry, their no-transfer 
price ends 6/30/2010. 

On Monday 25 January 2010 10:40:41 am Allen Majorovic wrote:
> --- On Mon, 1/25/10, Garry Stahl <tesral at wowway.com> wrote:
>
> That could go broke and vanish.
>
> Pay $120 (if that much)? for a terabyte and a housing.




From mdlug at wowway.com  Tue Jan 26 15:47:02 2010
From: mdlug at wowway.com (Dean Durant)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 15:47:02 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] building the chrome OS
In-Reply-To: <1625901272.8472651264536915421.JavaMail.root@md03.wow.synacor.com>
Message-ID: <246403406.8482361264538822362.JavaMail.root@md03.wow.synacor.com>

Hello, has anyone tried this? 


I was following the instructions, got to this point in the instructions: 


cd ~/chromiumos/src/scripts 


and found there was no 'scripts'. 




I didn't find this anywhere either: ./make_chroot.sh 




I didn't find ./build_chrome.sh 


for: ./build_chrome.sh --chrome_dir ~/chromium 




Some instructions are debian specific: 



cat >karmic.list <<EOF 
deb http://build.chromium.org/buildbot/packages chromeos_dev main restricted 
deb-src http://build.chromium.org/buildbot/packages chromeos_dev main restricted 
EOF 


# Install karmic debootstrap 
sudo mv karmic.list /etc/apt/sources.list.d/karmic.list 
sudo apt-get update 
sudo apt-get install -y --force-yes debootstrap 


# Remove temporary sources.list entry, so you don't upgrade anything else 
sudo rm /etc/apt/sources.list.d/karmic.list 
sudo apt-get update 







Better to start over with debian or convert these steps to suse? 


I installed alien. 


I have this install CD that installs a suse-based distro with Chrome as the browser. 






Does it make more sense to use gclient or WebKitGit? Is one obsolete? 




Thanks, Dean 















From fulner at alumni.nmu.edu  Tue Jan 26 19:45:53 2010
From: fulner at alumni.nmu.edu (Robert Jim Fulner)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 19:45:53 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: [opensuse-offtopic] Very impressive, website]
Message-ID: <c768576f1001261645w465f71edh464b266aa5aff3c3@mail.gmail.com>

For a site from open source perspective, there sure is a lot of propitiatory
flash crap.

On a somewhat related notice, as I meant to send that derogatory comment a
while ago, is there any way we can integrate some kind of code in the mdlug
digest edition that makes it easier to reply to one section without having
to figure out copy/paste just that section. Those of us on the digest
already don't' feel like we have enough time, but would like to input every
once in a while. As I often to most of my email on my Android/Linux
phone(which is why I couldn't even see the page in question)  the whole copy
and paste of only certain sections can be quite difficult.

Of course as a lazy open source user, who just plays a developer on IRC, I
have no idea how to do that and want you to do it for me, but that's my two
cents, for what its worth, which seems to be less and less every day.
--
Jim Fulner
The DetroitLibertyPenguin
Promoting Free Minds, Free Markets and Free Software
*and whenever possible Free Beer
*"For as long as one of your brothers is not free, none of you are free"
248-765-7458 (cell)
http://www.facebook.com/jim.fulner


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Tue Jan 26 23:31:20 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 23:31:20 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
Message-ID: <4145b6791001262031s73568a47l88faa8399e1cd7b3@mail.gmail.com>

Those of you who use an Open Source accounting package on your linux
machines, what do you use and how do you like it?

There appear to be quite a few of them available:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_accounting_software#Free_and_open_source_software

Regards,
- Robert


From driveray at ameritech.net  Tue Jan 26 23:50:04 2010
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 23:50:04 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: [opensuse-offtopic] Very impressive, website]
In-Reply-To: <c768576f1001261645w465f71edh464b266aa5aff3c3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c768576f1001261645w465f71edh464b266aa5aff3c3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B5FC5FC.9080800@ameritech.net>

Robert Jim Fulner wrote:
> For a site from open source perspective, there sure is a lot of propitiatory
> flash crap.
> 
> On a somewhat related notice, as I meant to send that derogatory comment a
> while ago, is there any way we can integrate some kind of code in the mdlug
> digest edition that makes it easier to reply to one section without having
> to figure out copy/paste just that section. Those of us on the digest
> already don't' feel like we have enough time, but would like to input every
> once in a while.

As Server Admin, I don't see anything like this happening in the
foreseeable future. The whole point of the digest option, afaik is to
get one big blob of text rather than individual posts.

> As I often to most of my email on my Android/Linux
> phone(which is why I couldn't even see the page in question)  the whole copy
> and paste of only certain sections can be quite difficult.

Switching from digest to individual posts would be the most practical
solution.

> Of course as a lazy open source user, who just plays a developer on IRC, I
> have no idea how to do that and want you to do it for me, but that's my two
> cents, for what its worth, which seems to be less and less every day.
> --
> Jim Fulner
> The DetroitLibertyPenguin
> Promoting Free Minds, Free Markets and Free Software
> *and whenever possible Free Beer
> *"For as long as one of your brothers is not free, none of you are free"
> 248-765-7458 (cell)
> http://www.facebook.com/jim.fulner

Raymond McLaughlin


From tesral at wowway.com  Wed Jan 27 06:58:18 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 06:58:18 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: [opensuse-offtopic] Very impressive, website]
In-Reply-To: <4B5FC5FC.9080800@ameritech.net>
References: <c768576f1001261645w465f71edh464b266aa5aff3c3@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B5FC5FC.9080800@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <4B602A5A.5020005@wowway.com>

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Switching from digest to individual posts would be the most practical
> solution.
>   

It's not like the number of bytes is that much greater.  I would rather
deal with twenty e-mails than try and answer specific numbers of those
twenty e-mails in one blob.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? -Mohandas K. Gandhi  
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From gib at juno.com  Wed Jan 27 15:56:03 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 20:56:03 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] Generic ID owns application files or individual ID
Message-ID: <20100127.155603.27009.0@webmail03.vgs.untd.com>

Generic ID owns application files or individual ID
Do you typically use generic ID file ownership when you develop applications or do you have the source files owned by individual developers?  
____________________________________________________________
Diet Help
Cheap Diet Help Tips. Click here.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=hJ8vFHCrij8N9xFFJBxDBgAAJz07QkQODMrtXujsdlflQzfUAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYQAAAAAA=


From awilliam at opengroupware.us  Wed Jan 27 16:02:13 2010
From: awilliam at opengroupware.us (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 16:02:13 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Generic ID owns application files or individual ID
In-Reply-To: <20100127.155603.27009.0@webmail03.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20100127.155603.27009.0@webmail03.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <1264626133.3103.5.camel@linux-m3mt>

On Wed, 2010-01-27 at 20:56 +0000, gib at juno.com wrote:
> Generic ID owns application files or individual ID
> Do you typically use generic ID file ownership when you develop applications or do you have the source files owned by individual developers?  

Individual developers,  they all have their own repository.  Usually on
their own machines.

Use distributed version control (like Hg). You'll never want to go back
to subversion [or, *gag*, shared volumes].



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 27 18:57:22 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 18:57:22 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Technical Equipment
Message-ID: <4B60D2E2.2050807@gmail.com>

Noticed on e-bay that there's a LOT of government surplus
electronic testing/evaluation equipment out there --
digital oscilloscopes (single and dual trace) up to
the 100 MHz range and more, spectrum analyzers, etc.

Has the DRCC 501(c)3 non-profit status been acquired
by MDLUG yet?

If so, we might be able to get some of this equipment
under this grant, or one similar to it.

http://www.federalgrantswire.com/disposal-of-federal-surplus-real-property.html



From tesral at wowway.com  Wed Jan 27 19:15:30 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 19:15:30 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Technical Equipment
In-Reply-To: <4B60D2E2.2050807@gmail.com>
References: <4B60D2E2.2050807@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B60D722.3030205@wowway.com>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> Noticed on e-bay that there's a LOT of government surplus
> electronic testing/evaluation equipment out there --
> digital oscilloscopes (single and dual trace) up to
> the 100 MHz range and more, spectrum analyzers, etc.
>
> Has the DRCC 501(c)3 non-profit status been acquired
> by MDLUG yet?
>
> If so, we might be able to get some of this equipment
> under this grant, or one similar to it.
>
> http://www.federalgrantswire.com/disposal-of-federal-surplus-real-property.html
>   

The question asked of the dog after he caught the car....

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? -Mohandas K. Gandhi  
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From petertheplumber at att.net  Wed Jan 27 19:58:59 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 19:58:59 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Technical Equipment
In-Reply-To: <4B60D722.3030205@wowway.com>
References: <4B60D2E2.2050807@gmail.com>  <4B60D722.3030205@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <1264640339.4604.377.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

On Wed, 2010-01-27 at 19:15 -0500, Garry Stahl wrote:
> Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> > Noticed on e-bay that there's a LOT of government surplus
> > electronic testing/evaluation equipment out there --
> > digital oscilloscopes (single and dual trace) up to
> > the 100 MHz range and more, spectrum analyzers, etc.
> >
> > Has the DRCC 501(c)3 non-profit status been acquired
> > by MDLUG yet?
> >
> > If so, we might be able to get some of this equipment
> > under this grant, or one similar to it.
> >
> > http://www.federalgrantswire.com/disposal-of-federal-surplus-real-property.html
> >   
> 
> The question asked of the dog after he caught the car....

Why, we'll play with it!!!!!!!

-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber



From Stan at mcomputersolutions.com  Wed Jan 27 21:21:25 2010
From: Stan at mcomputersolutions.com (Stan Green)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 21:21:25 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791001262031s73568a47l88faa8399e1cd7b3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4145b6791001262031s73568a47l88faa8399e1cd7b3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201001272121.25472.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>

I've tried most of the ones marked as "personal". This is one area I think Linux 
is very weak! Not one of these programs even comes close to the power of 
Quicken. For example, when I was looked for a Quicken replacement, not one of 
them could print checks on blank stock. There is no way I am going back to hand 
writting checks! (Yes, I still pay most of my bill by check.)

So, if you are a Linux developer looking for something to do, build a Quicken 
killer and you will be famous!

Regards,
Stan

On Tuesday 26 January 2010 11:31:20 pm Robert Citek wrote:
> Those of you who use an Open Source accounting package on your linux
> machines, what do you use and how do you like it?
>
> There appear to be quite a few of them available:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_accounting_software#Free_and_ope
>n_source_software
>
> Regards,
> - Robert
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




From rkannan at peoplepc.com  Wed Jan 27 21:48:23 2010
From: rkannan at peoplepc.com (R. Kannan)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 21:48:23 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
Message-ID: <28090913.1264646904136.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

A related question:

With tax filing season around the corner, do any of the Tax preparation software sellers plan to support Linux? TurboTax, H&R, Tax Act, Anyone?


-----Original Message-----
>From: Stan Green <Stan at mcomputersolutions.com>
>Sent: Jan 27, 2010 9:21 PM
>To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
>
>I've tried most of the ones marked as "personal". This is one area I think Linux 
>is very weak! Not one of these programs even comes close to the power of 
>Quicken. For example, when I was looked for a Quicken replacement, not one of 
>them could print checks on blank stock. There is no way I am going back to hand 
>writting checks! (Yes, I still pay most of my bill by check.)
>
>So, if you are a Linux developer looking for something to do, build a Quicken 
>killer and you will be famous!
>
>Regards,
>Stan
>
>On Tuesday 26 January 2010 11:31:20 pm Robert Citek wrote:
>> Those of you who use an Open Source accounting package on your linux
>> machines, what do you use and how do you like it?
>>
>> There appear to be quite a few of them available:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_accounting_software#Free_and_ope
>>n_source_software
>>
>> Regards,
>> - Robert
>> _______________________________________________
>> mdlug mailing list
>> mdlug at mdlug.org
>> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 27 22:09:29 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 22:09:29 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Fair Competition Counseling and Investigation of Complaints
 (36.001) | Federal Grants Wire
Message-ID: <4B60FFE9.3030507@gmail.com>

Objectives
To prevent business practices that are anticompetitive or deceptive or unfair to consumers; to enhance informed consumer choice and public understanding of the competitive process; and to accomplish these missions without unduly burdening legitimate business activity.

Types of Assistance
Advisory Services and Counseling;
Investigation of Complaints.

Uses and Use Restrictions
To prevent consumer fraud and deception, anticompetitive mergers, and unfair and other anticompetitive business practices in the marketplace.

Eligibility Requirements

Applicant Eligibility
Assistance is available to the general public.

Beneficiary Eligibility
General public.

Credentials/Documentation
Complaints must contain facsimiles of questioned advertising, labeling or other practice, or a summary of any oral misrepresentation involved, together with name and address of the alleged offender.





Wow... looks like someone could get a grant giving full
time income work devoted to doing nothing more than
investigating anti-competitive practices of a certain
business with a street address of One Microsoft Way.

<http://www.federalgrantswire.com/fair-competition-counseling-and-investigation-of-complaints.html>


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Wed Jan 27 22:30:41 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 22:30:41 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <201001272121.25472.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
References: <4145b6791001262031s73568a47l88faa8399e1cd7b3@mail.gmail.com>
	<201001272121.25472.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <4145b6791001271930o7fac3338ra1b790eecf9a37e@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 9:21 PM, Stan Green <Stan at mcomputersolutions.com> wrote:
> I've tried most of the ones marked as "personal". This is one area I think Linux
> is very weak! Not one of these programs even comes close to the power of
> Quicken. For example, when I was looked for a Quicken replacement, not one of
> them could print checks on blank stock. There is no way I am going back to hand
> writting checks! (Yes, I still pay most of my bill by check.)

Can I assume that means you don't run any of the Open Source packages
and instead are using Quicken?  If so, how are you running Quicken,
e.g on a non-Linux machine, within Wine[1], something else?

http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=107

Regards,
- Robert


From Stan at mcomputersolutions.com  Wed Jan 27 22:41:31 2010
From: Stan at mcomputersolutions.com (Stan Green)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 22:41:31 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <28090913.1264646904136.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <28090913.1264646904136.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <201001272241.31130.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>

Are you kidding, H&R Block even dropped Win2K this year. They don't even support 
Win2K if you use their online version. (The do allow Firefox, but only on 
Windows XP or later. So much for the web being OS independent!) I was fighting 
with H&R block CS for over an hour on this. Linux is not even a blip on the 
radar to them.

I was very unhappy that I had to create a XP image in VMWare just to do my 
taxes! I would go back to paper if it was not shooting myself in the foot.

I can only assume the rest are about equal on this issue. TurboTax also dropped 
support for Win2K this year.

Regards,
Stan

On Wednesday 27 January 2010 09:48:23 pm R. Kannan wrote:
> A related question:
>
> With tax filing season around the corner, do any of the Tax preparation
> software sellers plan to support Linux? TurboTax, H&R, Tax Act, Anyone?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> >From: Stan Green <Stan at mcomputersolutions.com>
> >Sent: Jan 27, 2010 9:21 PM
> >To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> >Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
> >
> >I've tried most of the ones marked as "personal". This is one area I think
> > Linux is very weak! Not one of these programs even comes close to the
> > power of Quicken. For example, when I was looked for a Quicken
> > replacement, not one of them could print checks on blank stock. There is
> > no way I am going back to hand writting checks! (Yes, I still pay most of
> > my bill by check.)
> >
> >So, if you are a Linux developer looking for something to do, build a
> > Quicken killer and you will be famous!
> >
> >Regards,
> >Stan
> >
> >On Tuesday 26 January 2010 11:31:20 pm Robert Citek wrote:
> >> Those of you who use an Open Source accounting package on your linux
> >> machines, what do you use and how do you like it?
> >>
> >> There appear to be quite a few of them available:
> >>
> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_accounting_software#Free_and_
> >>ope n_source_software
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> - Robert
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> mdlug mailing list
> >> mdlug at mdlug.org
> >> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >mdlug mailing list
> >mdlug at mdlug.org
> >http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
> ________________________________________
> PeoplePC Online
> A better way to Internet
> http://www.peoplepc.com
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




From Stan at mcomputersolutions.com  Wed Jan 27 22:45:35 2010
From: Stan at mcomputersolutions.com (Stan Green)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 22:45:35 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791001271930o7fac3338ra1b790eecf9a37e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4145b6791001262031s73568a47l88faa8399e1cd7b3@mail.gmail.com>
	<201001272121.25472.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
	<4145b6791001271930o7fac3338ra1b790eecf9a37e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201001272245.35190.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>

I have run the open source version, but I always go back to Quicken.

I run Quicken 2004 and tax programs in VMWare Workstation 6.5. I was using 
Win2K, but H&R Block dropped Win2k, so I have to create an XP image for taxes 
this year.

On Wednesday 27 January 2010 10:30:41 pm Robert Citek wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 9:21 PM, Stan Green <Stan at mcomputersolutions.com> 
wrote:
> > I've tried most of the ones marked as "personal". This is one area I
> > think Linux is very weak! Not one of these programs even comes close to
> > the power of Quicken. For example, when I was looked for a Quicken
> > replacement, not one of them could print checks on blank stock. There is
> > no way I am going back to hand writting checks! (Yes, I still pay most of
> > my bill by check.)
>
> Can I assume that means you don't run any of the Open Source packages
> and instead are using Quicken?  If so, how are you running Quicken,
> e.g on a non-Linux machine, within Wine[1], something else?
>
> http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=107
>
> Regards,
> - Robert
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




From davidl at lmert.com  Wed Jan 27 22:47:52 2010
From: davidl at lmert.com (David Lee Lambert)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 22:47:52 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <201001272121.25472.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
References: <4145b6791001262031s73568a47l88faa8399e1cd7b3@mail.gmail.com>
	<201001272121.25472.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <c5df8cf61001271947k5a35cccboa8ba8ba73d155968@mail.gmail.com>

I have almost 3 years of records entered with GNUCash, and I mostly like
it.  I've never used it to print checks;  I write a few checks by hand,  but
pay most bills through my bank's website.  One time I wanted to analyze some
data further in a spreadsheet,  and wrote a perl script to parse the XML
data-file and extract what I was looking for.

2010/1/27 Stan Green <Stan at mcomputersolutions.com>

> I've tried most of the ones marked as "personal". This is one area I think
> Linux
> is very weak! Not one of these programs even comes close to the power of
> Quicken. For example, when I was looked for a Quicken replacement, not one
> of
> them could print checks on blank stock. There is no way I am going back to
> hand
> writting checks! (Yes, I still pay most of my bill by check.)
>
> So, if you are a Linux developer looking for something to do, build a
> Quicken
> killer and you will be famous!
>
> Regards,
> Stan
>
> On Tuesday 26 January 2010 11:31:20 pm Robert Citek wrote:
> > Those of you who use an Open Source accounting package on your linux
> > machines, what do you use and how do you like it?
> [...]
>


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Wed Jan 27 22:59:37 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 22:59:37 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <c5df8cf61001271947k5a35cccboa8ba8ba73d155968@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4145b6791001262031s73568a47l88faa8399e1cd7b3@mail.gmail.com>
	<201001272121.25472.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
	<c5df8cf61001271947k5a35cccboa8ba8ba73d155968@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4145b6791001271959x14a9c3fsda8e3c400497a1be@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 10:47 PM, David Lee Lambert <davidl at lmert.com> wrote:
> I have almost 3 years of records entered with GNUCash, and I mostly like
> it. ?I've never used it to print checks; ?I write a few checks by hand, ?but
> pay most bills through my bank's website. ?One time I wanted to analyze some
> data further in a spreadsheet, ?and wrote a perl script to parse the XML
> data-file and extract what I was looking for.

Is that because GnuCash was not able export data into common
spreadsheet formats, e.g. csv, .xls, .ods?

Regards,
- Robert


From tesral at wowway.com  Wed Jan 27 23:09:18 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 23:09:18 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Technical Equipment
In-Reply-To: <1264640339.4604.377.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
References: <4B60D2E2.2050807@gmail.com> <4B60D722.3030205@wowway.com>
	<1264640339.4604.377.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <4B610DEE.4080702@wowway.com>

Peter Bart wrote:
> Why, we'll play with it!!!!!!!
>
>   

Also, Where does this hardware get stored?  Who will be responsible for
it?  And so forth.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? -Mohandas K. Gandhi  
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From davidl at lmert.com  Wed Jan 27 23:17:41 2010
From: davidl at lmert.com (David Lee Lambert)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 23:17:41 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791001271959x14a9c3fsda8e3c400497a1be@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4145b6791001262031s73568a47l88faa8399e1cd7b3@mail.gmail.com>
	<201001272121.25472.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
	<c5df8cf61001271947k5a35cccboa8ba8ba73d155968@mail.gmail.com>
	<4145b6791001271959x14a9c3fsda8e3c400497a1be@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c5df8cf61001272017l1de936c1j4cb846901b32560c@mail.gmail.com>

Yes,  it doesn't have that feature.  The FAQ lists several alternatives,
none quite as satisfactory as what I'd like (select a subset of
accounts, result is a spreadsheet with date and memo columns plus one column
per account):

http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_How_can_I_export_data.3F

2010/1/27 Robert Citek <robert.citek at gmail.com>

> On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 10:47 PM, David Lee Lambert <davidl at lmert.com>
> wrote:
> > I have almost 3 years of records entered with GNUCash, and I mostly like
> > it.  I've never used it to print checks;  I write a few checks by hand,
>  but
> > pay most bills through my bank's website.  One time I wanted to analyze
> some
> > data further in a spreadsheet,  and wrote a perl script to parse the XML
> > data-file and extract what I was looking for.
>
> Is that because GnuCash was not able export data into common
> spreadsheet formats, e.g. csv, .xls, .ods?
>
> Regards,
> - Robert
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Thu Jan 28 00:24:21 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 00:24:21 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791001262031s73568a47l88faa8399e1cd7b3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4145b6791001262031s73568a47l88faa8399e1cd7b3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4145b6791001272124q5528606fiab29e5ae1a806d35@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 11:31 PM, Robert Citek <robert.citek at gmail.com> wrote:
> Those of you who use an Open Source accounting package on your linux
> machines, what do you use and how do you like it?

Let me broaden the question: of those of you that use any kind (open
source, proprietary, SaaS) accounting software on Linux, what
accounting software do you use?  What factors when into that decision?

A slight variation: if a non-techie friend was starting a business
(e.g. a dog day-care service) and asked you what kind of accounting
software to use under Linux, what would you recommend?  What factors
did you consider for the recommendation?

Regards,
- Robert


From driveray at ameritech.net  Thu Jan 28 00:53:35 2010
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 00:53:35 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Painfully simple ln -s command question
Message-ID: <4B61265F.4090404@ameritech.net>

MDLUGers:
I have been chasing this around for over an hour, the man page is no
help,  and it's bugging me.

I have a directory off my home:
   ~/bin .
This directory contains an executable:
   ~/bin/clearline .
I want to create a simlink in this directory that looks like this:
   bin/cln -> clearline

The simplest way to just do it is:
    $ cd bin
    $ ln -s clearline cln

But I should be able to do this with one command, from within my home
directory.

But this is what happens: the command
    $ ln -s bin/clearline  cln
results in a simlink to the right file, but in the current (home) directory.

The commands:
     $ln -s bin/clearline ~/bin/cln
and
     $ln -s bin/clearline ./bin/cln
results in malformed simlinks *in the ~/bin directory:
 bin/cln -> bin/clearline
that point to a file in a nonexistent subdirectory: ~/bin/bin .

The command:
    $ ln -s ~/bin/clearline  ~/bin/cln
does create a link to the right file, in the right directory, but it
takes the form:
    cln -> /home/rmclaughlin/bin/clearline
rather than the desired
    cln -> clearline .

I could have worked around this with a cd command and then the link
command, but it just bugs me that I can't come up with a working single
command sytax.

It's probably obvious, but I don't see it. Any help?

Raymond McLaughlin






From robert.citek at gmail.com  Thu Jan 28 01:00:54 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 01:00:54 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Painfully simple ln -s command question
In-Reply-To: <4B61265F.4090404@ameritech.net>
References: <4B61265F.4090404@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <4145b6791001272200r519fc470x7c9a30d5459aa579@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 12:53 AM, Raymond McLaughlin
<driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
> MDLUGers:
> I have been chasing this around for over an hour, the man page is no
> help, ?and it's bugging me.
>
> I have a directory off my home:
> ? ~/bin .
> This directory contains an executable:
> ? ~/bin/clearline .
> I want to create a simlink in this directory that looks like this:
> ? bin/cln -> clearline
>
> The simplest way to just do it is:
> ? ?$ cd bin
> ? ?$ ln -s clearline cln

$ ln -snf clearnline ~/bin/cln

Regards,
- Robert


From driveray at ameritech.net  Thu Jan 28 00:57:08 2010
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 00:57:08 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Painfully simple ln -s command question
In-Reply-To: <4B61265F.4090404@ameritech.net>
References: <4B61265F.4090404@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <4B612734.8000401@ameritech.net>

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
Typo in that explanation:

<snip>
> 
> The commands:
>      $ln -s bin/clearline  /bin/cln
                            ^
> and
>      $ln -s bin/clearline ./bin/cln
> results in malformed simlinks *in the ~/bin directory:
>  bin/cln -> bin/clearline
> that point to a file in a nonexistent subdirectory: ~/bin/bin .
<snip>



From driveray at ameritech.net  Thu Jan 28 01:14:59 2010
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 01:14:59 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Painfully simple ln -s command question
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791001272200r519fc470x7c9a30d5459aa579@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B61265F.4090404@ameritech.net>
	<4145b6791001272200r519fc470x7c9a30d5459aa579@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B612B63.6030000@ameritech.net>

Robert Citek wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 12:53 AM, Raymond McLaughlin
> <driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
>> MDLUGers:
>> I have been chasing this around for over an hour, the man page is no
>> help,  and it's bugging me.
>>
>> I have a directory off my home:
>>   ~/bin .
>> This directory contains an executable:
>>   ~/bin/clearline .
>> I want to create a symlink in this directory that looks like this:
>>   bin/cln -> clearline
>>
>> The simplest way to just do it is:
>>    $ cd bin
>>    $ ln -s clearline cln
> 
> $ ln -snf clearnline ~/bin/cln

Thanks for the rapid reply, it works.

I saw in the man page:
>       -n, --no-dereference
>               treat destination that is a symlink to a directory as if it were a normal file

but it seemed to be about symlinks to directories, and I was linking to
a regular file, so I didn't consider it. I guess I was confusing
"destination" with "target". The info page is more informative.

Thanks
Raymond McLaughlin








From robert.citek at gmail.com  Thu Jan 28 01:37:56 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 01:37:56 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Painfully simple ln -s command question
In-Reply-To: <4B612B63.6030000@ameritech.net>
References: <4B61265F.4090404@ameritech.net>
	<4145b6791001272200r519fc470x7c9a30d5459aa579@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B612B63.6030000@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <4145b6791001272237t6821c677va034f890e62e15a@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 1:14 AM, Raymond McLaughlin
<driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
> Robert Citek wrote:
>> On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 12:53 AM, Raymond McLaughlin
>>> The simplest way to just do it is:
>>> ? ?$ cd bin
>>> ? ?$ ln -s clearline cln
>>
>> $ ln -snf clearnline ~/bin/cln
>
> Thanks for the rapid reply, it works.

Glad to hear it worked for you.  Sorry about the typo in "clearline"

> I saw in the man page:
>> ? ? ? -n, --no-dereference
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? treat destination that is a symlink to a directory as if it were a normal file
>
> but it seemed to be about symlinks to directories, and I was linking to
> a regular file, so I didn't consider it.

"ln -snf" is just a habit of mine.  In your case -f and -n don't do
any harm and are extra.

> I guess I was confusing "destination" with "target". The info page is more informative.

Easy to do with ln.  ls shows the link from left to right:

cln -> clearline

which naturally makes one think that ln works in the same fashion (in
pseudo-code):

$ ln cln -> clearline

or

$ ln ~/bin/cln -> clearline

Regards,
- Robert


From driveray at ameritech.net  Thu Jan 28 01:42:31 2010
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 01:42:31 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Painfully simple ln -s command question
In-Reply-To: <4B612B63.6030000@ameritech.net>
References: <4B61265F.4090404@ameritech.net>	<4145b6791001272200r519fc470x7c9a30d5459aa579@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B612B63.6030000@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <4B6131D7.4020003@ameritech.net>

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Robert Citek wrote:
>> On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 12:53 AM, Raymond McLaughlin
>> <driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
>>> MDLUGers:
>>> I have been chasing this around for over an hour, the man page is no
>>> help,  and it's bugging me.
>>>
>>> I have a directory off my home:
>>>   ~/bin .
>>> This directory contains an executable:
>>>   ~/bin/clearline .
>>> I want to create a symlink in this directory that looks like this:
>>>   bin/cln -> clearline
>>>
>>> The simplest way to just do it is:
>>>    $ cd bin
>>>    $ ln -s clearline cln
>> $ ln -snf clearnline ~/bin/cln
> 
> Thanks for the rapid reply, it works.
> 
> I saw in the man page:
>>       -n, --no-dereference
>>               treat destination that is a symlink to a directory as if it were a normal file
> 
> but it seemed to be about symlinks to directories, and I was linking to
> a regular file, so I didn't consider it. I guess I was confusing
> "destination" with "target". The info page is more informative.

No in their usage "Target" is what could be called "Source" they use the
term "LINK_NAME" ot "LINKNAME" in the documentation. From the man page:
       ln [OPTION]... [-T] TARGET LINK_NAME
I will use this terminology from here on.

> 
> Thanks
> Raymond McLaughlin

Actually the commands:

    pts/3 $ ln -s clearline bin/cln
    pts/3 $ ln -sn clearline bin/cln
    pts/3 $ ln -sT clearline bin/cln

all work. (For simplicity I've ommitted your -f switch that forces
overwriting an existing file.) My error seems to have been inclusion of
the 'bin/' directory specification in the "TARGET". This is counter
intuitive to me. 'ln' looks at the LINK_NAME to determine where to find
the TARGET. Guess I'll have to retool my intuition.

Thanks again
Ray



From robert.citek at gmail.com  Thu Jan 28 02:14:16 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 02:14:16 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Painfully simple ln -s command question
In-Reply-To: <4B6131D7.4020003@ameritech.net>
References: <4B61265F.4090404@ameritech.net>
	<4145b6791001272200r519fc470x7c9a30d5459aa579@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B612B63.6030000@ameritech.net> <4B6131D7.4020003@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <4145b6791001272314n75d9cee0k6a6c86e7f6cc5f2e@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 1:42 AM, Raymond McLaughlin
<driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
> My error seems to have been inclusion of
> the 'bin/' directory specification in the "TARGET". This is counter
> intuitive to me. 'ln' looks at the LINK_NAME to determine where to find
> the TARGET. Guess I'll have to retool my intuition.

Maybe.  For example,

$ ln -s ~/bin/foo ~/bin/bar

I read this in four steps backwards (from right to left).  That is, ln will ...
1) create link called bar ...
2) in the ~/bin/ folder ...
3) pointing to a file foo ...
4) in the ~/bin/ folder

Another example,

$ ln -s ../bin/foo ~/bin/bar

ln will ...
1) create link called bar ...
2) in the ~/bin/ folder ...
3) pointing to a file foo ...
4) in the ../bin/ folder

Relative paths (./ or ../) in the TARGET are relative to the location
of the LINK_NAME.

Regards,
- Robert


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 28 08:25:33 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 05:25:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <201001272121.25472.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
References: <4145b6791001262031s73568a47l88faa8399e1cd7b3@mail.gmail.com>
	<201001272121.25472.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <206361.1727.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Have you looked at GNU Cash?




________________________________
From: Stan Green <Stan at mcomputersolutions.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Wed, January 27, 2010 9:21:25 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software

I've tried most of the ones marked as "personal". This is one area I think Linux 
is very weak! Not one of these programs even comes close to the power of 
Quicken. For example, when I was looked for a Quicken replacement, not one of 
them could print checks on blank stock. There is no way I am going back to hand 
writting checks! (Yes, I still pay most of my bill by check.)

So, if you are a Linux developer looking for something to do, build a Quicken 
killer and you will be famous!

Regards,
Stan

On Tuesday 26 January 2010 11:31:20 pm Robert Citek wrote:
> Those of you who use an Open Source accounting package on your linux
> machines, what do you use and how do you like it?
>
> There appear to be quite a few of them available:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_accounting_software#Free_and_ope
>n_source_software
>
> Regards,
> - Robert
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 28 10:01:24 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 10:01:24 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Painfully simple ln -s command question
In-Reply-To: <4B61265F.4090404@ameritech.net>
References: <4B61265F.4090404@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <4B61A6C4.6000905@gmail.com>

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> MDLUGers:
> I have been chasing this around for over an hour, the man page is no
> help,  and it's bugging me.
> 
> I have a directory off my home:
>    ~/bin .
> This directory contains an executable:
>    ~/bin/clearline .
> I want to create a simlink in this directory that looks like this:
>    bin/cln -> clearline
> 
> The simplest way to just do it is:
>     $ cd bin
>     $ ln -s clearline cln
> 
> But I should be able to do this with one command, from within my home
> directory.
> 
> But this is what happens: the command
>     $ ln -s bin/clearline  cln
> results in a simlink to the right file, but in the current (home) directory.
> 
> The commands:
>      $ln -s bin/clearline ~/bin/cln
> and
>      $ln -s bin/clearline ./bin/cln
> results in malformed simlinks *in the ~/bin directory:
>  bin/cln -> bin/clearline
> that point to a file in a nonexistent subdirectory: ~/bin/bin .
> 
> The command:
>     $ ln -s ~/bin/clearline  ~/bin/cln
> does create a link to the right file, in the right directory, but it
> takes the form:
>     cln -> /home/rmclaughlin/bin/clearline

ln -s works like this:

ln -s  $A $B

will result in the end of an ls -l listing like this:
   $B -> $A

So, from your home directory:

you want
   /bin/cln -> clearline

so

ln -s clearline /bin/cln

The way you were working was for "hard"
(non-symbolic) links.

> rather than the desired
>     cln -> clearline .
> 
> I could have worked around this with a cd command and then the link
> command, but it just bugs me that I can't come up with a working single
> command sytax.
> 
> It's probably obvious, but I don't see it. Any help?
> 
> Raymond McLaughlin


From awilliam at opengroupware.us  Thu Jan 28 10:14:57 2010
From: awilliam at opengroupware.us (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 10:14:57 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <c5df8cf61001271947k5a35cccboa8ba8ba73d155968@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4145b6791001262031s73568a47l88faa8399e1cd7b3@mail.gmail.com>
	<201001272121.25472.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
	<c5df8cf61001271947k5a35cccboa8ba8ba73d155968@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1264691697.3270.1.camel@linux-m3mt>

On Wed, 2010-01-27 at 22:47 -0500, David Lee Lambert wrote:
> I have almost 3 years of records entered with GNUCash, 

+1.  I've been using GNUCash since Ximian had their red-carpet service
(how long is that? Yikes.) It is a great application.


-- 
OpenGroupware developer: awilliam at whitemice.org
<http://whitemiceconsulting.blogspot.com/>
OpenGroupare & Cyrus IMAPd documenation @
<http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/whitemice/wmogag/file_view>



From awilliam at opengroupware.us  Thu Jan 28 10:20:44 2010
From: awilliam at opengroupware.us (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 10:20:44 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <201001272241.31130.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
References: <28090913.1264646904136.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<201001272241.31130.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <1264692044.3270.4.camel@linux-m3mt>

On Wed, 2010-01-27 at 22:41 -0500, Stan Green wrote:
> Are you kidding, H&R Block even dropped Win2K this year. They don't even support 
> Win2K if you use their online version. (The do allow Firefox, but only on 
> Windows XP or later. So much for the web being OS independent!) I was fighting 
> with H&R block CS for over an hour on this. Linux is not even a blip on the 
> radar to them.
> I was very unhappy that I had to create a XP image in VMWare just to do my 
> taxes! I would go back to paper if it was not shooting myself in the foot.
> I can only assume the rest are about equal on this issue. TurboTax also dropped 
> support for Win2K this year.

Makes sense Win2K is no longer supported.

I make an appointment at H&R, go there with all the paper work, the man
fills out the forms [in what really looks like a Borland OWL app!], and
then he hands me an envelope to stick the check in and mail.

When I get home I write the check, enter that into GNUcash, and mail the
envelope.

All 100% LINUX/GNOME compatible and hassle free.

-- 
OpenGroupware developer: awilliam at whitemice.org
<http://whitemiceconsulting.blogspot.com/>
OpenGroupare & Cyrus IMAPd documenation @
<http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/whitemice/wmogag/file_view>



From rkannan at peoplepc.com  Thu Jan 28 10:47:11 2010
From: rkannan at peoplepc.com (R. Kannan)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 10:47:11 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
Message-ID: <21403502.1264693631506.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>


Man you are missing out the fun of entering data, answering all those questions
and clicking on help :-) I feel sorry for you.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Adam Tauno Williams <awilliam at opengroupware.us>
>Sent: Jan 28, 2010 10:20 AM
>To: mdlug at mdlug.org
>Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
>
>On Wed, 2010-01-27 at 22:41 -0500, Stan Green wrote:
>> Are you kidding, H&R Block even dropped Win2K this year. They don't even support 
>> Win2K if you use their online version. (The do allow Firefox, but only on 
>> Windows XP or later. So much for the web being OS independent!) I was fighting 
>> with H&R block CS for over an hour on this. Linux is not even a blip on the 
>> radar to them.
>> I was very unhappy that I had to create a XP image in VMWare just to do my 
>> taxes! I would go back to paper if it was not shooting myself in the foot.
>> I can only assume the rest are about equal on this issue. TurboTax also dropped 
>> support for Win2K this year.
>
>Makes sense Win2K is no longer supported.
>
>I make an appointment at H&R, go there with all the paper work, the man
>fills out the forms [in what really looks like a Borland OWL app!], and
>then he hands me an envelope to stick the check in and mail.
>
>When I get home I write the check, enter that into GNUcash, and mail the
>envelope.
>
>All 100% LINUX/GNOME compatible and hassle free.
>
>-- 
>OpenGroupware developer: awilliam at whitemice.org
><http://whitemiceconsulting.blogspot.com/>
>OpenGroupare & Cyrus IMAPd documenation @
><http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/whitemice/wmogag/file_view>
>
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com


From awilliam at opengroupware.us  Thu Jan 28 11:10:35 2010
From: awilliam at opengroupware.us (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 11:10:35 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <21403502.1264693631506.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <21403502.1264693631506.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1264695035.3270.12.camel@linux-m3mt>

On Thu, 2010-01-28 at 10:47 -0500, R. Kannan wrote:
> Man you are missing out the fun of entering data, answering all those questions
> and clicking on help :-) I feel sorry for you.

Yep, personal-tax-software is a category I've never understood.
*Buying* a personal-tax-package is like paying to be locked naked in a
small cold damp room for several hours.  It seems obvious why there
isn't any Open Source *personal* tax software.... who would want to
spend their time writing that?  ...Yawn...   [There is Open Source ERP
software - but someone gets paid to develop that].

I work in IT - other people pay me to solve their IT issues.  I pay a
mechanic to fix my car, I pay a dentist to maintain my teeth, and I pay
an accountant to do my taxes.  All of them do what they do far more
quickly and effectively than I could perform those same tasks.

> >On Wed, 2010-01-27 at 22:41 -0500, Stan Green wrote:
> >> Are you kidding, H&R Block even dropped Win2K this year. They don't even support 
> >> Win2K if you use their online version. (The do allow Firefox, but only on 
> >> Windows XP or later. So much for the web being OS independent!) I was fighting 
> >> with H&R block CS for over an hour on this. Linux is not even a blip on the 
> >> radar to them.
> >> I was very unhappy that I had to create a XP image in VMWare just to do my 
> >> taxes! I would go back to paper if it was not shooting myself in the foot.
> >> I can only assume the rest are about equal on this issue. TurboTax also dropped 
> >> support for Win2K this year.
> >Makes sense Win2K is no longer supported.
> >I make an appointment at H&R, go there with all the paper work, the man
> >fills out the forms [in what really looks like a Borland OWL app!], and
> >then he hands me an envelope to stick the check in and mail.
> >When I get home I write the check, enter that into GNUcash, and mail the
> >envelope.
> >All 100% LINUX/GNOME compatible and hassle free.




From gib at juno.com  Thu Jan 28 11:11:10 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 16:11:10 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] mdlug] Technical Equipment
Message-ID: <20100128.111110.26094.2@webmail02.vgs.untd.com>

 
Some interesting computer grants too.
http://www.federalgrantswire.com/computer-and-information-science-and-engineering.html
http://www.federalgrantswire.com/education-technology-state-grants.html

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
To: "mdlug at mdlug.org" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: [mdlug] Technical Equipment
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 18:57:22 -0500

Noticed on e-bay that there's a LOT of government surplus
electronic testing/evaluation equipment out there --
digital oscilloscopes (single and dual trace) up to
the 100 MHz range and more, spectrum analyzers, etc.

Has the DRCC 501(c)3 non-profit status been acquired
by MDLUG yet?

If so, we might be able to get some of this equipment
under this grant, or one similar to it.

http://www.federalgrantswire.com/disposal-of-federal-surplus-real-property.html

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

____________________________________________________________
Weight Loss Program
Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here!
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From danno at umich.edu  Thu Jan 28 13:53:49 2010
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 13:53:49 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <1264695035.3270.12.camel@linux-m3mt>
References: <21403502.1264693631506.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<1264695035.3270.12.camel@linux-m3mt>
Message-ID: <20100128185349.GA56543@maniac.deathstar.org>

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 11:10:35AM -0500, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> Yep, personal-tax-software is a category I've never understood.
> *Buying* a personal-tax-package is like paying to be locked naked in a
> small cold damp room for several hours.  It seems obvious why there

> I work in IT - other people pay me to solve their IT issues.  I pay a
> mechanic to fix my car, I pay a dentist to maintain my teeth, and I pay
> an accountant to do my taxes.  All of them do what they do far more
> quickly and effectively than I could perform those same tasks.

I paid someone to do my (not super complicated, but i need a 1040
not 1040A or EZ) taxes for a few years.

Then I realized that most of the work was collecting all the data,
and that I was paying them $150 to sit in front of turbotax for an
hour and mail me the results.  I was going in person to drop
everything off, which probably took an hour out of my day (as i
write this i realize i should have mailed it).

I now pay $50 for turbotax, spend the hour locked in a small cold damp room
(actually, my living room, listening to music), and i'm done.

Of course, I often fix my own car, too.  Not as much as I used to before
children, but some still.

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Thu Jan 28 15:17:52 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 15:17:52 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791001272124q5528606fiab29e5ae1a806d35@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4145b6791001262031s73568a47l88faa8399e1cd7b3@mail.gmail.com>
	<4145b6791001272124q5528606fiab29e5ae1a806d35@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4145b6791001281217u6de3e106lf2fd4e3fe075f4c2@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 12:24 AM, Robert Citek <robert.citek at gmail.com> wrote:
> A slight variation: if a non-techie friend was starting a business
> (e.g. a dog day-care service) and asked you what kind of accounting
> software to use under Linux, what would you recommend? ?What factors
> did you consider for the recommendation?

Let me add one degree of separation: if a non-techie friend was
starting a business (e.g. a dog day-care service) and asked me what
kind of accounting software they should use under Linux, what should I
recommend?  What factors should I consider for the recommendation?
One item that's on my list would be who I can refer them to if they
have questions.  Although I can help them with Linux issues, I know
next to nothing about accounting.

Regards,
- Robert


From micorral at comcast.net  Thu Jan 28 20:48:31 2010
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 20:48:31 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <20100128185349.GA56543@maniac.deathstar.org>
References: <21403502.1264693631506.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<1264695035.3270.12.camel@linux-m3mt>
	<20100128185349.GA56543@maniac.deathstar.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.1001282035450.2377@banana.sluggo.net>

2010-01-28, Monsieur Dan Pritts a ecrit:
> I paid someone to do my (not super complicated, but i need a 1040
> not 1040A or EZ) taxes for a few years.
>
> Then I realized that most of the work was collecting all the data,
> and that I was paying them $150 to sit in front of turbotax for an
> hour and mail me the results.  I was going in person to drop
> everything off, which probably took an hour out of my day (as i
> write this i realize i should have mailed it).
>
> I now pay $50 for turbotax, spend the hour locked in a small cold damp room
> (actually, my living room, listening to music), and i'm done.

So you've gone from paying a person $150 to do what you could do yourself,
to paying $50 for software to do what you could do yourself.

I've got that beat. I also use the full 1040 form, but I pay $0 and do
it all - get this! - *by hand*, with no software. Crazy, ain't it? :)

Michael


From Stan at mcomputersolutions.com  Thu Jan 28 20:56:01 2010
From: Stan at mcomputersolutions.com (Stan Green)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 20:56:01 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <21403502.1264693631506.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <21403502.1264693631506.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <201001282056.01351.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>

And don't forget paying 6 times what the software cost. (That is the last time I 
paid H&R Block do my taxes.)
:-)

On Thursday 28 January 2010 10:47:11 am R. Kannan wrote:
> Man you are missing out the fun of entering data, answering all those
> questions and clicking on help :-) I feel sorry for you.
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> >From: Adam Tauno Williams <awilliam at opengroupware.us>
> >Sent: Jan 28, 2010 10:20 AM
> >To: mdlug at mdlug.org
> >Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
> >
> >On Wed, 2010-01-27 at 22:41 -0500, Stan Green wrote:
> >> Are you kidding, H&R Block even dropped Win2K this year. They don't even
> >> support Win2K if you use their online version. (The do allow Firefox,
> >> but only on Windows XP or later. So much for the web being OS
> >> independent!) I was fighting with H&R block CS for over an hour on this.
> >> Linux is not even a blip on the radar to them.
> >> I was very unhappy that I had to create a XP image in VMWare just to do
> >> my taxes! I would go back to paper if it was not shooting myself in the
> >> foot. I can only assume the rest are about equal on this issue. TurboTax
> >> also dropped support for Win2K this year.
> >
> >Makes sense Win2K is no longer supported.
> >
> >I make an appointment at H&R, go there with all the paper work, the man
> >fills out the forms [in what really looks like a Borland OWL app!], and
> >then he hands me an envelope to stick the check in and mail.
> >
> >When I get home I write the check, enter that into GNUcash, and mail the
> >envelope.
> >
> >All 100% LINUX/GNOME compatible and hassle free.
> >
> >--
> >OpenGroupware developer: awilliam at whitemice.org
> ><http://whitemiceconsulting.blogspot.com/>
> >OpenGroupare & Cyrus IMAPd documenation @
> ><http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/whitemice/wmogag/file_view>
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >mdlug mailing list
> >mdlug at mdlug.org
> >http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
> ________________________________________
> PeoplePC Online
> A better way to Internet
> http://www.peoplepc.com
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




From drew4096 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 29 05:25:45 2010
From: drew4096 at gmail.com (Drew)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 05:25:45 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.00.1001282035450.2377@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <21403502.1264693631506.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<1264695035.3270.12.camel@linux-m3mt>
	<20100128185349.GA56543@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1001282035450.2377@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20100129045905.02e56450@pop.gmail.com>

I rather had the impression that spreadsheets were originally 
designed for financial related work,
like accounting. Never mind the fact that I have also found them 
useful for engineering work. In
Open Office I count roughly 60 functions in the Financial category. 
If there's accounting work to
do, Open Office should be suitable. (Printing checks is another 
matter, but I'm sure that can be
programmed.)

At 08:48 PM 1/28/10, Michael Corral wrote:

>So you've gone from paying a person $150 to do what you could do yourself,
>to paying $50 for software to do what you could do yourself.
>
>I've got that beat. I also use the full 1040 form, but I pay $0 and do
>it all - get this! - *by hand*, with no software. Crazy, ain't it? :)

That's the way I have done it, except one year that I used Online 
TurboTimmy, er, Tax (sorry,
too much Tickerforum) in the hope of getting a check from the State 
sooner, which failed miserably
due at least in part to there being no provision for providing 
supporting documents with the online
filing. I never saw what it was about a 1040, even with Schedule A 
and B, that required "professional"
help, though maybe it would be different if I were running a 
business? It's all addition and subtraction
with some multiplication after all, which even if they stopped 
teaching it in elementary school,
calculators can now be bought for one dollar. (Three orders of 
magnitude cheaper than the first one
I laid eyes on, in nominal dollars!)

I never took "accounting" - sounded boring and uninteresting, so 
maybe there's something esoteric
about it that I missed. Would it really be that difficult for someone 
used to, say, calculus and
geometry?

And I also fix my own car whenever possible. It has not been easy for 
me during my life to convince
people to hand money over to me, so I'm generally loathe to hand it 
to other people unnecessarily.


----

- Drew.



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 29 07:24:03 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 07:24:03 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] [mdlug-discuss] Rip Off Waiting To Happen
In-Reply-To: <1264760434.4604.435.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
References: <1264760434.4604.435.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <4B62D363.7040903@gmail.com>

Peter Bart wrote:
> Good Morning Everyone,
> 	So nothing quite gets my goat like getting ripped off. Twice today I
> was asked; after completing an online purchase; if I would like to get a
> coupon towards a future purchase. Of course I say! What's not really
> spelled out is you're buying a subscription that will cost far more than
> the piddly little coupon I wanted. This company "partners" with well
> known sites, but is a separate company. The are known as
> www.webloyalty.com www.shopperdiscountsandrewards.com
> www.reservationrewards.com www.buyerassurance.com
> www.travelvaluesplus.com www.walletshield.com www.completesavings.com.
> See for yourself, and be careful!!
> 
> <http://www.bbb.org/connecticut/business-reviews/buying-clubs-and-group-purchasing-service/webloyaltycom-in-norwalk-ct-77000102>
> <http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/providing-3rd-parties-with-credit-card-information-resulting-in-unauthoried-charges-c269252.html>
> <http://thehive.modbee.com/node/16794>
> <http://blog.consumerwebwatch.org/2009/06/webloyaltycom_faces_senate_scr_1.html>

Thanks Peter,
They have been added to the lits:

in /etc/hosts:
			#black-hole flash ads & ripoff artists

127.0.0.1  localhost	kulkilap	\
			c1.zedo.com c2.zedo.com c3.zedo.com \
			c4.zedo.com  c5.zedo.com \
			banners.adultfriendfinder.com \
			ad.yieldmanager.com \
			pagead2.googlesyndication.com \
			googleads.g.doublecklick.net \
			www.webloyalty.com \
			www.shopperdiscountsandrewards.com \
			www.reservationrewards.com \
			www.buyerassurance.com \
			www.travelvaluesplus.com \
			www.walletshield.com \
			www.completesavings.com 


From carl at carltm.com  Fri Jan 29 08:14:30 2010
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 08:14:30 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] heard of Eucalyptus?
Message-ID: <b567953885e53ddc83f1f922162f377f.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

I just heard that Eucalyptus can support HPC (High
Performance Clustering).  I went to their website
and spent half an hour reading about it.  Basically
they call it a cloud environment which can be used
to test apps before moving to a commercial cloud.

Has anyone else heard of this?  I'm wondering if
this can be set up for HA (High Availability) as
well, similar to how 3tera works.  Do you know of
any good sites about Eucalyptus and open source
cloud computing that don't assume you already know
about their product?

c




