From rstaff at sprynet.com  Mon Feb  1 18:19:28 2010
From: rstaff at sprynet.com (Richard Staff)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 18:19:28 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20100129045905.02e56450@pop.gmail.com>
References: <21403502.1264693631506.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>	<1264695035.3270.12.camel@linux-m3mt>	<20100128185349.GA56543@maniac.deathstar.org>	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1001282035450.2377@banana.sluggo.net>
	<6.2.3.4.0.20100129045905.02e56450@pop.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B676180.8040208@sprynet.com>

Great subject/topic!!!
Many, many years ago I was using an accounting package for the Atari 800.
It was written in Atari Basic.
I was able to code modify it so it would do some things I wanted.
Then I had something for the Atari ST.
Then there was Quicken for Windows.
Then there was GnuCash for Linux.
I am now using KMyMoney.  It is a personal accounting program that is 
KDE based.
I like using KMyMoney for my personal financial income and expense tracking.
I do NOT print checks.  I do NOT run a business with it.  I do NOT 
create charts with it.
KMyMoney has a Quicken like flavor/behavior to it, but not Quicken's power.
I do print a report of account balances and a monthly expenses/income 
report.
I would think that if you want a professional quality accounting system, 
then you pay for it.
Dumb Question: Are there not Java based professional accounting systems 
available?
Dumb Thought:  A Java based application is likely to be multi-platform, 
Mac, Win, Linux.
Peace out, Rick
P.S.  I was using TurboTax for taxes, but switched to H&R Block TaxCut 
the year TurboTax dropped Win 98.
###
Drew wrote:
> I rather had the impression that spreadsheets were originally 
> designed for financial related work,
> like accounting. Never mind the fact that I have also found them 
> useful for engineering work. In
> Open Office I count roughly 60 functions in the Financial category. 
> If there's accounting work to
> do, Open Office should be suitable. (Printing checks is another 
> matter, but I'm sure that can be
> programmed.)
>
> At 08:48 PM 1/28/10, Michael Corral wrote:
>
>   
>> So you've gone from paying a person $150 to do what you could do yourself,
>> to paying $50 for software to do what you could do yourself.
>>
>> I've got that beat. I also use the full 1040 form, but I pay $0 and do
>> it all - get this! - *by hand*, with no software. Crazy, ain't it? :)
>>     
>
> That's the way I have done it, except one year that I used Online 
> TurboTimmy, er, Tax (sorry,
> too much Tickerforum) in the hope of getting a check from the State 
> sooner, which failed miserably
> due at least in part to there being no provision for providing 
> supporting documents with the online
> filing. I never saw what it was about a 1040, even with Schedule A 
> and B, that required "professional"
> help, though maybe it would be different if I were running a 
> business? It's all addition and subtraction
> with some multiplication after all, which even if they stopped 
> teaching it in elementary school,
> calculators can now be bought for one dollar. (Three orders of 
> magnitude cheaper than the first one
> I laid eyes on, in nominal dollars!)
>
> I never took "accounting" - sounded boring and uninteresting, so 
> maybe there's something esoteric
> about it that I missed. Would it really be that difficult for someone 
> used to, say, calculus and
> geometry?
>
> And I also fix my own car whenever possible. It has not been easy for 
> me during my life to convince
> people to hand money over to me, so I'm generally loathe to hand it 
> to other people unnecessarily.
>
>
> ----
>
> - Drew.
>   



From rmdion at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 22:59:18 2010
From: rmdion at gmail.com (Bob Dion)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 21:59:18 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20100129045905.02e56450@pop.gmail.com>
References: <21403502.1264693631506.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>	<1264695035.3270.12.camel@linux-m3mt>	<20100128185349.GA56543@maniac.deathstar.org>	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1001282035450.2377@banana.sluggo.net>
	<6.2.3.4.0.20100129045905.02e56450@pop.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B67A316.3090908@gmail.com>

There's more to filling out a 1040 then adding and subtracting. It's 
understanding tax law. and what if any credits and deductions you are 
entitled to.

Did you file a schedule M?

how about a child tax credit or earned income credit.

I'm currently working for Jackson Hewitt. people come into the office 
making any where from $10,000 and $30,000 and leave with a $3,000 to 
$7,000 check. It's worth it to these people to pay us $200 to prepare 
their return.

Bob



Drew wrote:
> I rather had the impression that spreadsheets were originally 
> designed for financial related work,
> like accounting. Never mind the fact that I have also found them 
> useful for engineering work. In
> Open Office I count roughly 60 functions in the Financial category. 
> If there's accounting work to
> do, Open Office should be suitable. (Printing checks is another 
> matter, but I'm sure that can be
> programmed.)
> 
> At 08:48 PM 1/28/10, Michael Corral wrote:
> 
>> So you've gone from paying a person $150 to do what you could do yourself,
>> to paying $50 for software to do what you could do yourself.
>>
>> I've got that beat. I also use the full 1040 form, but I pay $0 and do
>> it all - get this! - *by hand*, with no software. Crazy, ain't it? :)
> 
> That's the way I have done it, except one year that I used Online 
> TurboTimmy, er, Tax (sorry,
> too much Tickerforum) in the hope of getting a check from the State 
> sooner, which failed miserably
> due at least in part to there being no provision for providing 
> supporting documents with the online
> filing. I never saw what it was about a 1040, even with Schedule A 
> and B, that required "professional"
> help, though maybe it would be different if I were running a 
> business? It's all addition and subtraction
> with some multiplication after all, which even if they stopped 
> teaching it in elementary school,
> calculators can now be bought for one dollar. (Three orders of 
> magnitude cheaper than the first one
> I laid eyes on, in nominal dollars!)
> 
> I never took "accounting" - sounded boring and uninteresting, so 
> maybe there's something esoteric
> about it that I missed. Would it really be that difficult for someone 
> used to, say, calculus and
> geometry?
> 
> And I also fix my own car whenever possible. It has not been easy for 
> me during my life to convince
> people to hand money over to me, so I'm generally loathe to hand it 
> to other people unnecessarily.
> 
> 
> ----
> 
> - Drew.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 


From petertheplumber at att.net  Mon Feb  1 23:18:24 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 23:18:24 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <4B67A316.3090908@gmail.com>
References: <21403502.1264693631506.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<1264695035.3270.12.camel@linux-m3mt>
	<20100128185349.GA56543@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1001282035450.2377@banana.sluggo.net>
	<6.2.3.4.0.20100129045905.02e56450@pop.gmail.com>
	<4B67A316.3090908@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1265084304.17211.109.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

On Mon, 2010-02-01 at 21:59 -0600, Bob Dion wrote:
> There's more to filling out a 1040 then adding and subtracting. It's 
> understanding tax law. and what if any credits and deductions you are 
> entitled to.

	And that's why I have someone do mine. For the same reason I have
someone fix my car, my appliances, etc.

> Did you file a schedule M?
> 
> how about a child tax credit or earned income credit.
> 
> I'm currently working for Jackson Hewitt. people come into the office 
> making any where from $10,000 and $30,000 and leave with a $3,000 to 
> $7,000 check. It's worth it to these people to pay us $200 to prepare 
> their return.

	It's not that I can't, matter of fact I can do most of the things I
need done. I just can't do them as well or notice related things that
should be taken care of.
-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber



From robert.citek at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 23:33:45 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 23:33:45 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <1265084304.17211.109.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
References: <21403502.1264693631506.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<1264695035.3270.12.camel@linux-m3mt>
	<20100128185349.GA56543@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1001282035450.2377@banana.sluggo.net>
	<6.2.3.4.0.20100129045905.02e56450@pop.gmail.com>
	<4B67A316.3090908@gmail.com>
	<1265084304.17211.109.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <4145b6791002012033xc17a78flb9f6fab3ab0fb65c@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 11:18 PM, Peter Bart <petertheplumber at att.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 2010-02-01 at 21:59 -0600, Bob Dion wrote:
>> There's more to filling out a 1040 then adding and subtracting. It's
>> understanding tax law. and what if any credits and deductions you are
>> entitled to.
>
> And that's why I have someone do mine. For the same reason I have
> someone fix my car, my appliances, etc.

I lost track of where the topic changed, but my original question was
about accounting software not tax software.  One would use the
accounting software to help manage one's finances.  At the end of the
year, that software should also present the data to you in an
organized way for doing taxes, either for doing them yourself or for
having done by a tax professional.

To repost the last incarnation of the question: if a non-techie friend
was starting a small business and asked me what kind of accounting
software they should use under Linux, what should I recommend?

(yes, it's different from my original question, but closer to what I
meant to ask.)

Regards,
- Robert


From lugnuts at doehler.us  Tue Feb  2 00:44:13 2010
From: lugnuts at doehler.us (Joe Doehler)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 00:44:13 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <1264691697.3270.1.camel@linux-m3mt>
References: <4145b6791001262031s73568a47l88faa8399e1cd7b3@mail.gmail.com>	<201001272121.25472.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>	<c5df8cf61001271947k5a35cccboa8ba8ba73d155968@mail.gmail.com>
	<1264691697.3270.1.camel@linux-m3mt>
Message-ID: <4B67BBAD.3030404@doehler.us>

Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> On Wed, 2010-01-27 at 22:47 -0500, David Lee Lambert wrote:
>> I have almost 3 years of records entered with GNUCash, 
> 
> +1.  I've been using GNUCash since Ximian had their red-carpet service
> (how long is that? Yikes.) It is a great application.

I tried GNUCash for a little while a few years ago, but it did not work 
nearly as well for me as Quicken-for-Windows (QFW). In QFW, I enter the 
info for checks to go out (payee, amount, date), and it's done. QFW 
contacts the banks, who then does an EFT, or mails a printed check at 
their expense at the right time. On my end, no paper check to write or 
print, no stamp to buy. In this workflow, the check info is typed in 
once, and only once. No web site to log on to to either send money out, 
transfer, or download and import cleared transactions. Deposits, credit 
card transactions details and check numbers show up without me having to 
do anything. At reconciliation time, I just check if the bottom lines 
between the mailed statements and QFW match, and it's done.

The price to pay is a regular upgrade, as the protocols for contacting 
banks and credit card companies keep changing. It's worth it to me, in 
stamp savings alone. Perhaps things have changed, but I do not know of 
any open source software that can do all of this. I wish there were. If 
there is, please let us know.

Joe.



From carl at carltm.com  Tue Feb  2 20:29:35 2010
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 20:29:35 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] wow...
Message-ID: <dcaa158c0fa6fdce405e28fbce804ad0.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

My head is spinning.  I got an old Pentium III workstation
that barely ran Windows XP and thought I'd try installing
some cloud software on it just to see what it looks like.

I've already installed the cloud management software, and
as part of the configuration, they say to create and run
a xen virtual machine to verify that xen is properly installed.

That's where I'm at.  I'm installing the latest version of
CentOS on a headless VM that is installed on a headless
workstation with less than a gig of ram.  And it's working.
It simply amazes me how well Linux and xen can manage
resources!

c




From Stan at mcomputersolutions.com  Tue Feb  2 21:24:56 2010
From: Stan at mcomputersolutions.com (Stan Green)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 21:24:56 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791002012033xc17a78flb9f6fab3ab0fb65c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <21403502.1264693631506.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<1265084304.17211.109.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
	<4145b6791002012033xc17a78flb9f6fab3ab0fb65c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201002022124.56590.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>

OK since you ask, SAP on Linux does a great job for accounting. 

However is like asking what is the best car. (Chevy Camaro, of course.) Everyone 
has different requirements and taste. The first thing your friend needs to do 
is define what he wants an accounting package to do. Then take that data and 
look for a package to solve the problem. Picking a software package without a 
good understanding of the problem is like buying a car because someone else 
likes their's! Maybe their requirements are simple and something like GNUCash 
would work, or maybe the requirements are complex, like inventory and 
depreciation, so they need something more powerfull. You will not know until 
you get the requirements.

On a side note, if they are starting a business and know nothing about 
accounting, this is a big red flag. There is a reason people have to go to 
college to become an accountant. As a business owner, I would recommend they 
find a good accounting firm to guide them through the first few years. This 
would allow them to focus on the business rather on making sure they are 
following Generally Accepted Accounting Procedures (GAAP). Once they have a 
good understanding of the type of accounting they need then they can start 
looking to take on the work themselves. 


On Monday 01 February 2010 11:33:45 pm Robert Citek wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 11:18 PM, Peter Bart <petertheplumber at att.net> wrote:
> > On Mon, 2010-02-01 at 21:59 -0600, Bob Dion wrote:
> >> There's more to filling out a 1040 then adding and subtracting. It's
> >> understanding tax law. and what if any credits and deductions you are
> >> entitled to.
> >
> > And that's why I have someone do mine. For the same reason I have
> > someone fix my car, my appliances, etc.
>
> I lost track of where the topic changed, but my original question was
> about accounting software not tax software.  One would use the
> accounting software to help manage one's finances.  At the end of the
> year, that software should also present the data to you in an
> organized way for doing taxes, either for doing them yourself or for
> having done by a tax professional.
>
> To repost the last incarnation of the question: if a non-techie friend
> was starting a small business and asked me what kind of accounting
> software they should use under Linux, what should I recommend?
>
> (yes, it's different from my original question, but closer to what I
> meant to ask.)
>
> Regards,
> - Robert
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




From robert.citek at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 00:09:51 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 00:09:51 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] wow...
In-Reply-To: <dcaa158c0fa6fdce405e28fbce804ad0.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
References: <dcaa158c0fa6fdce405e28fbce804ad0.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <4145b6791002022109k4b30769dmdb80675262835cf@mail.gmail.com>

Are you keeping a blog on how you are doing this?  It would be a great read.

Regards,
- Robert

On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 8:29 PM, Carl T. Miller <carl at carltm.com> wrote:
> My head is spinning. ?I got an old Pentium III workstation
> that barely ran Windows XP and thought I'd try installing
> some cloud software on it just to see what it looks like.
>
> I've already installed the cloud management software, and
> as part of the configuration, they say to create and run
> a xen virtual machine to verify that xen is properly installed.
>
> That's where I'm at. ?I'm installing the latest version of
> CentOS on a headless VM that is installed on a headless
> workstation with less than a gig of ram. ?And it's working.
> It simply amazes me how well Linux and xen can manage
> resources!
>
> c


From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Wed Feb  3 08:48:26 2010
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 08:48:26 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] wow...
In-Reply-To: <dcaa158c0fa6fdce405e28fbce804ad0.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
References: <dcaa158c0fa6fdce405e28fbce804ad0.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE469021957C536@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

It's not just Xen, either - we have a messaging queue product running on several Linux servers here.  I was surprised to find out that the messaging software - a java app, keep in mind - was running on a host (Virtual Machine) with 256 MB RAM allocated to it!

A CentOS server running a java-based enterprise messaging queue processing production traffic - all on 256 MB RAM. 

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Carl T. Miller
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 8:30 PM
To: MDLUG List
Subject: [mdlug] wow...

My head is spinning.  I got an old Pentium III workstation
that barely ran Windows XP and thought I'd try installing
some cloud software on it just to see what it looks like.

I've already installed the cloud management software, and
as part of the configuration, they say to create and run
a xen virtual machine to verify that xen is properly installed.

That's where I'm at.  I'm installing the latest version of
CentOS on a headless VM that is installed on a headless
workstation with less than a gig of ram.  And it's working.
It simply amazes me how well Linux and xen can manage
resources!

c


_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From davidl at lmert.com  Wed Feb  3 10:29:44 2010
From: davidl at lmert.com (David Lee Lambert)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 10:29:44 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791002012033xc17a78flb9f6fab3ab0fb65c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <21403502.1264693631506.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<1264695035.3270.12.camel@linux-m3mt>
	<20100128185349.GA56543@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1001282035450.2377@banana.sluggo.net>
	<6.2.3.4.0.20100129045905.02e56450@pop.gmail.com>
	<4B67A316.3090908@gmail.com>
	<1265084304.17211.109.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
	<4145b6791002012033xc17a78flb9f6fab3ab0fb65c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c5df8cf61002030729g2b3fbbb3nb2038b5a76746542@mail.gmail.com>

I would still recommend GNUCash for the general ledger of a small business.
 In fact,  it might be better for that than for personal finance.

Another alternative would be to run QuickBooks ($$) under Wine.  From the
application database,  it sounds like it has some UI glitches but does run.
 I haven't used it myself.

On 1 February 2010 23:33, Robert Citek <robert.citek at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 11:18 PM, Peter Bart <petertheplumber at att.net>
> wrote:
> > On Mon, 2010-02-01 at 21:59 -0600, Bob Dion wrote:
> >> There's more to filling out a 1040 then adding and subtracting. It's
> >> understanding tax law. and what if any credits and deductions you are
> >> entitled to.
> >
> > And that's why I have someone do mine. For the same reason I have
> > someone fix my car, my appliances, etc.
>
> I lost track of where the topic changed, but my original question was
> about accounting software not tax software.  One would use the
> accounting software to help manage one's finances.  At the end of the
> year, that software should also present the data to you in an
> organized way for doing taxes, either for doing them yourself or for
> having done by a tax professional.
>
> To repost the last incarnation of the question: if a non-techie friend
> was starting a small business and asked me what kind of accounting
> software they should use under Linux, what should I recommend?
>
> (yes, it's different from my original question, but closer to what I
> meant to ask.)
>
> Regards,
> - Robert
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 11:50:54 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 11:50:54 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <201002022124.56590.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
References: <21403502.1264693631506.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<1265084304.17211.109.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
	<4145b6791002012033xc17a78flb9f6fab3ab0fb65c@mail.gmail.com>
	<201002022124.56590.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <4145b6791002030850t67344e3ev88ea714fd3fa4c03@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 9:24 PM, Stan Green <Stan at mcomputersolutions.com> wrote:
> OK since you ask, SAP on Linux does a great job for accounting.

Good to know and something to consider when the business really takes off.

> However is like asking what is the best car. (Chevy Camaro, of course.) Everyone
> has different requirements and taste. The first thing your friend needs to do
> is define what he wants an accounting package to do. Then take that data and
> look for a package to solve the problem. Picking a software package without a
> good understanding of the problem is like buying a car because someone else
> likes their's! Maybe their requirements are simple and something like GNUCash
> would work, or maybe the requirements are complex, like inventory and
> depreciation, so they need something more powerfull. You will not know until
> you get the requirements.

Excellent suggestion.  In fact, I like that for choosing any kind of
software not just accounting.

> On a side note, if they are starting a business and know nothing about
> accounting, this is a big red flag. There is a reason people have to go to
> college to become an accountant. As a business owner, I would recommend they
> find a good accounting firm to guide them through the first few years. This
> would allow them to focus on the business rather on making sure they are
> following Generally Accepted Accounting Procedures (GAAP). Once they have a
> good understanding of the type of accounting they need then they can start
> looking to take on the work themselves.

In other words, go with what the accountant recommends?

Actually, what most of my friends are doing is asking friends of
theirs that operate a similar line of business what they do.  "Joe
runs a coffee shop and uses XYZ software.  Since I want to run a
coffee shop, I'll use XYZ software, too.  If I run into any issues, I
can buzz Joe."  And those recommendations go beyond software into
other products and services.

Regards,
- Robert


From mdlug at wowway.com  Wed Feb  3 15:53:08 2010
From: mdlug at wowway.com (Dean Durant)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 15:53:08 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] a new place to meet
Message-ID: <685429888.11085261265230388495.JavaMail.root@md03.wow.synacor.com>

Hello, I have found a place that I think will be a good place to meet for at least as long as they are around. 


It is the Phoenix Cafe, 24918 John R Rd Hazel Park, MI 48030. 


First meeting will be Tuesday, Feb 9th, 7:00 until close, or whenever people want to leave. Close is at 11:00.   


I have already spoken to the owner, Hans. There is technically no fee to meet there. However I would like to give Hans something, he needs help keeping the place open.   But I will arrange for the initial donation to Hans because I want people to come and check it out.

The Phoenix is a performing art space, with bands on Friday and Saturday nights.   

There is wireless.   It's very quiet, almost dead on non-show nights.   

Some may remember that I tried something like this before.   The location wasn't really great, and I don't think I realized people would be there.   But I was sick that night, which rarely happens, just a bad turn of events.

I expect to be at this place in 6 days, at 7:00.   In nicer weather I can bike there, it's about 1.5 miles from my house.   Even if I am sick, I'll be there.     Parking is in the back.    The location is basically 10 mile and John R.   So I-696 is just a very short walk, I-75 is not far, Woodward is about 1.5 miles away.   

On the east side of John R, south of 696, there is a quick oil change place, then 10 mile.  Then a Thai restaurant, a sub shop, then this place.   

I'd like to do an install fest, using this hybrid google chrome/Suse hybrid distro that I've found.   I installed it on a spare at work.   It's nice.  I guess it's mostly Suse.   I tried to compile Chrome OS on this same box, that was the goal, had some problems.

I have a home machine, well two home machines, I need help with grub to do a dual boot on the newer machine.    Or I have an older box, it's showing some ATA timeouts on the CDROM, I think it's the mobo.   Maybe a USB bootable copy of the iso would work. 

Hans has some old monitors, giant old tanks, and other equipment but being as I am so close, I'll bring my home gear.  



If I can get this going as a regular thing, it might be possible to help Hans keep it open, I don't know, I guess he has the means to fund it for a while, and they do cover all their expenses and then some on show nights.  If I could run a unix/linux/MacOS/ipv6 consultancy out of there during the day, that would be great, but of course I have a very dull day job, probably not too likely.   Hans is a Mac guy, and he has heard of Open Source.  

 It's definitely a counter-cultural kind of place, the "Insane Palin Posse" may not like some of what they see but everyone is welcome.   

If you think you would like to come, please email me privately, or reply to the list, people always seem to.   Replying to the list would tell other people who all might be there.   

Hope to see folks, thanks, Dean









From gib at juno.com  Wed Feb  3 17:50:58 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 22:50:58 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  a new place to meet
Message-ID: <20100203.175058.6043.1@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>


Hey Dean, you might get better turn-out if you didn't schedule it the same night as Mug.org.

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Dean Durant <mdlug at wowway.com>
To: mdlug <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: [mdlug] a new place to meet
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 15:53:08 -0500 (EST)

Hello, I have found a place that I think will be a good place to meet for at least as long as they are around. 


It is the Phoenix Cafe, 24918 John R Rd Hazel Park, MI 48030. 


First meeting will be Tuesday, Feb 9th, 7:00 until close, or whenever people want to leave. Close is at 11:00.   


I have already spoken to the owner, Hans. There is technically no fee to meet there. However I would like to give Hans something, he needs help keeping the place open.   But I will arrange for the initial donation to Hans because I want people to come and check it out.

The Phoenix is a performing art space, with bands on Friday and Saturday nights.   

There is wireless.   It's very quiet, almost dead on non-show nights.   

Some may remember that I tried something like this before.   The location wasn't really great, and I don't think I realized people would be there.   But I was sick that night, which rarely happens, just a bad turn of events.

I expect to be at this place in 6 days, at 7:00.   In nicer weather I can bike there, it's about 1.5 miles from my house.   Even if I am sick, I'll be there.     Parking is in the back.    The location is basically 10 mile and John R.   So I-696 is just a very short walk, I-75 is not far, Woodward is about 1.5 miles away.   

On the east side of John R, south of 696, there is a quick oil change place, then 10 mile.  Then a Thai restaurant, a sub shop, then this place.   

I'd like to do an install fest, using this hybrid google chrome/Suse hybrid distro that I've found.   I installed it on a spare at work.   It's nice.  I guess it's mostly Suse.   I tried to compile Chrome OS on this same box, that was the goal, had some problems.

I have a home machine, well two home machines, I need help with grub to do a dual boot on the newer machine.    Or I have an older box, it's showing some ATA timeouts on the CDROM, I think it's the mobo.   Maybe a USB bootable copy of the iso would work. 

Hans has some old monitors, giant old tanks, and other equipment but being as I am so close, I'll bring my home gear.  



If I can get this going as a regular thing, it might be possible to help Hans keep it open, I don't know, I guess he has the means to fund it for a while, and they do cover all their expenses and then some on show nights.  If I could run a unix/linux/MacOS/ipv6 consultancy out of there during the day, that would be great, but of course I have a very dull day job, probably not too likely.   Hans is a Mac guy, and he has heard of Open Source.  

 It's definitely a counter-cultural kind of place, the "Insane Palin Posse" may not like some of what they see but everyone is welcome.   

If you think you would like to come, please email me privately, or reply to the list, people always seem to.   Replying to the list would tell other people who all might be there.   

Hope to see folks, thanks, Dean







_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


____________________________________________________________
Weight Loss Program
Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=m8t6zHKBZx6evwp3bsyC-QAAJz07QkQODMrtXujsdlflQzfUAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEUgAAAAA=


From bobdion at starline-ent.com  Thu Feb  4 09:05:28 2010
From: bobdion at starline-ent.com (bob dion)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 08:05:28 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791002012033xc17a78flb9f6fab3ab0fb65c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <21403502.1264693631506.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>	<1264695035.3270.12.camel@linux-m3mt>	<20100128185349.GA56543@maniac.deathstar.org>	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1001282035450.2377@banana.sluggo.net>	<6.2.3.4.0.20100129045905.02e56450@pop.gmail.com>	<4B67A316.3090908@gmail.com>	<1265084304.17211.109.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
	<4145b6791002012033xc17a78flb9f6fab3ab0fb65c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B6AD428.3030007@wideopenwest.com>

KMymoney can connect to your bank using the aqbanking plug-in

$$ there is quasar accounting
http://www.linuxcanada.com/

and

MyBooks from AppGen
http://www.appgen.com/site/mybooks_professional.htm

for more examples see here:

http://www.aaxnet.com/design/linuxacct.html

Currently I running a very old version of MYOB under Wine. When I stop 
being lazy I switching to KMymoney.

Bob

Robert Citek wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 11:18 PM, Peter Bart <petertheplumber at att.net> wrote:
>> On Mon, 2010-02-01 at 21:59 -0600, Bob Dion wrote:
>>> There's more to filling out a 1040 then adding and subtracting. It's
>>> understanding tax law. and what if any credits and deductions you are
>>> entitled to.
>> And that's why I have someone do mine. For the same reason I have
>> someone fix my car, my appliances, etc.
> 
> I lost track of where the topic changed, but my original question was
> about accounting software not tax software.  One would use the
> accounting software to help manage one's finances.  At the end of the
> year, that software should also present the data to you in an
> organized way for doing taxes, either for doing them yourself or for
> having done by a tax professional.
> 
> To repost the last incarnation of the question: if a non-techie friend
> was starting a small business and asked me what kind of accounting
> software they should use under Linux, what should I recommend?
> 
> (yes, it's different from my original question, but closer to what I
> meant to ask.)
> 
> Regards,
> - Robert
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 



From driveray at ameritech.net  Sat Feb  6 20:23:58 2010
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 20:23:58 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] No surprises here: Microsoft to Drop Linux,
 Unix Versions of Enterprise Search
Message-ID: <4B6E162E.4060006@ameritech.net>

<http://www.nytimes.com/external/idg/2010/02/05/05idg-microsoft-to-drop-linux-unix-versions-of-enterprise-86850.html>

...

After Microsoft bought Fast Search & Transfer in 2008, it said it would
continue offering and updating standalone versions of the company's ESP
platform for Linux and Unix, wrote Bjorn Olstad, CTO for Fast and a
Microsoft distinguished engineer. "Over the last two years, we?ve done
just that."

...


From driveray at ameritech.net  Sun Feb  7 04:27:08 2010
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 04:27:08 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Detroit VMUG Meeting Invitation
Message-ID: <4B6E876C.90303@ameritech.net>

MDLUGers:
VMWare UG meeting Thur 2/18.
Note, they serve dinner. Pretty good lasagna last time I went.
This kind of conflicts with LugWash (8:00 PM WCCC) but you could duck
out a little early if you wanted too.

> View this email on mobile devices
> http://app.connect.vmware.com/e/es.aspx?s=524&e=12556055&elq=64e8f9a594ac4c7780d0ccdb8b3f561a&OPENID=Mobile
> 
> Online version 
> http://app.connect.vmware.com/e/es.aspx?s=524&e=12556055&elq=64e8f9a594ac4c7780d0ccdb8b3f561a&OPENID=Mobile
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Detroit VMware User Group 
> Meeting Invitation
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
> Please join us for the upcoming Detroit VMware User Group meeting on Thursday, February 18th.
> Come to network and share ideas with an innovative group of VMware users as you learn how to get the most out of your VMware solutions.
> 
> Date: February 18, 2010
> Time: 5:30 p.m. - 8:00 p.m.
> 
> Location: 
> Wayne RESA 
> (Regional Educational Service Agency) 
> 33500 Van Born Road 
> Wayne, MI 48184
> 
> Directions:  http://tinyurl.com/4eo5wm
> To register: http://www.vmware.com/resources/communities/usergroup/events.html
> 
> Agenda 
> 
> 05:30 p.m. - Greetings - Dinner - Introduction
> 05:50 p.m. - VMware Updates - James Wheeler 
> 06:00 p.m. - Virtual Desktops - Brandon Sanders, Data Strategy
> 06:40 p.m. - VMware ThinApp Demo - Chris Everett, VMware
> 07:30 p.m. - Q&A, Group Discussion, Raffle, Meeting Wrap-Up
> 8:45 p.m. - Meeting Wrap-Up
> 
> Sponsored by Data Strategy
> 
> Register today to join us for this FREE informative event.  Space is limited, so respond as soon as possible to reserve your seat. 
> 
> The VMUG Team
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> VMware, Inc. 3401 Hillview Ave Palo Alto CA 94304 USA Tel 1-877-486-9273
> Copyright ? 2010 VMware, Inc. All rights reserved. VMware is a registered 
> trademark of VMware, Inc. 
> Thank you for registering with VMware. Any information that you provide to 
> VMware will be treated in accordance with our Privacy Policy:
> http://www.vmware.com/help/privacy.html?elq=64e8f9a594ac4c7780d0ccdb8b3f561a
> 
> To manage your profile and subscription preferences, please go to your VMware Profile here:
> http://info.vmware.com/forms/Profile?elq=64e8f9a594ac4c7780d0ccdb8b3f561a 
> 
> To UNSUBSCRIBE completely from VMware communications, please go to 
> http://info.vmware.com/content/opt-out?elq=64e8f9a594ac4c7780d0ccdb8b3f561a


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 17:47:09 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 17:47:09 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Another one from the family IT emergency broadcast service
Message-ID: <b02c40e91002091447u10405db9ub0f8a843d144919@mail.gmail.com>

I don't just need a spam filter, I need an IQ filter.

==========================================
PLEASE CIRCULATE to your friends, family and contacts.

In the coming days,  Do not open any message with an attachment called:

Black in the White House,

Regardless of who sent you ... It is a virus that opens an Olympic
torch that burns the whole hard disk C of your computer.

This virus comes from a known person who you had in your list

Directions. . That's why you should send this message to all your contacts.

It is better to receive this email 25 times [than] to receive the
virus and open .. If you receive a message called: black in the white
house, even sent by a friend, do not open and shut down your machine
immediately. It is the worst virus announced by CNN.

A new virus has been discovered recently it has been classified by
Microsoft as the virus most destructive ever. This virus was
discovered yesterday afternoon by Mc Afee. And there is no repair yet
for this kind of virus. This virus simply destroys the Zero Sector of
the hard disk, where information vital function is stored.


From amajorov at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  9 18:30:24 2010
From: amajorov at yahoo.com (Allen Majorovic)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 15:30:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] Another one from the family IT emergency broadcast
	service
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e91002091447u10405db9ub0f8a843d144919@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <844313.91092.qm@web113308.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

According to snopes.com, urbanlegends.about.com, www.hoax-slayer.com and a couple of other such sites it's a hoax.

Allen

--- On Tue, 2/9/10, Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com>
Subject: [mdlug] Another one from the family IT emergency broadcast service
To: "MDLUG's Main discussion list" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Date: Tuesday, February 9, 2010, 5:47 PM

I don't just need a spam filter, I need an IQ filter.

==========================================
PLEASE CIRCULATE to your friends, family and contacts.

In the coming days,? Do not open any message with an attachment called:

Black in the White House,

Regardless of who sent you ... It is a virus that opens an Olympic
torch that burns the whole hard disk C of your computer.

This virus comes from a known person who you had in your list

Directions. . That's why you should send this message to all your contacts.

It is better to receive this email 25 times [than] to receive the
virus and open .. If you receive a message called: black in the white
house, even sent by a friend, do not open and shut down your machine
immediately. It is the worst virus announced by CNN.

A new virus has been discovered recently it has been classified by
Microsoft as the virus most destructive ever. This virus was
discovered yesterday afternoon by Mc Afee. And there is no repair yet
for this kind of virus. This virus simply destroys the Zero Sector of
the hard disk, where information vital function is stored.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      

From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 18:57:20 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 18:57:20 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Another one from the family IT emergency broadcast
	service
In-Reply-To: <844313.91092.qm@web113308.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <b02c40e91002091447u10405db9ub0f8a843d144919@mail.gmail.com>
	<844313.91092.qm@web113308.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e91002091557k560774fdv19f57fd0c7c5cbce@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 6:30 PM, Allen Majorovic <amajorov at yahoo.com> wrote:
> According to snopes.com, urbanlegends.about.com, www.hoax-slayer.com and a couple of other such sites it's a hoax.
>

I refer them to Snopes so often that I'm considering asking for a referral fee.


From alexc at disklessworkstations.com  Wed Feb 10 16:31:33 2010
From: alexc at disklessworkstations.com (Alex Colcernian)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:31:33 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Learn Linux Thin Client Software - LTSP Boot Camp
Message-ID: <4B7325B5.5000801@disklessworkstations.com>

Hello MDLUG Members,

I wanted to inform everyone about LTSP Boot Camp. LTSP (Linux Terminal 
Server Project) was founded back in 1999 alongside 
DisklessWorkstations.com. If your familiar with the project or its 
history, you already know it has grown considerably all over the world.

On March 22nd and 23rd we are hosting LTSP Boot Camp. LTSP Boot Camp is 
two day hands on, interactive training seminar. Attendees will learn 
everything there is to know about LTSP 5, specifically in Ubuntu 9.10. 
Hardware will be available for every individual attendee throughout the 
entire seminar.

More information can be found by visiting: 
http://www.DisklessWorkstations.com/ltspBootCamp.html

Thank You,

-- 
Alex Colcernian
Director - Marketing and Sales
DisklessWorkstations.com
Phone: 248.724.0701
Fax: 248.577.0201
Twitter: @AlexDLWS



From driveray at ameritech.net  Thu Feb 11 02:52:37 2010
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 02:52:37 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Reminder: MDLUG Sat Feb 13 Meeting - 2010 Officer Election
 and Bylaw Changes
Message-ID: <4B73B745.8030107@ameritech.net>

Mary Tomich <mailto:secretary at mdlug.org> wrote:

> Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 14:50:32 -0500
> From: marytee
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> 
> The next MDLUG general membership meeting will be on Saturday, February 
> 13, 2010 at 12:30PM at Gaudior Academy 27100 Avondale Avenue Inkster MI 
> 48141.
> 
> Meeting agenda is:
> 
> 1. Election of 2010 officers:
> 
> a. Nominations for 2010 MDLUG officers:
>     President - Gibson Nichols
>     Vice President  - Garry Stahl
>     Michael Persello  - Treasurer
>     Secretary - Tony Bemus
> 
>   (If you wish to vote by proxy, please notify the Secretary 
> (secretary at mdlug.org) via email prior to the meeting, with the following 
> information: (a.) Your Name; (b.) MDLUG member who will cast your proxy 
> vote;  (c.) Be sure and put 2010 MDLUG Officer proxy vote in the subject 
> line.
> 
> 
> 2. Vote on the following bylaw amendments:
> 
> a. Eliminate paper library by amending MDLUG bylaws ( Section V, 
> subsection A, part 6) to read: The librarian who collects, maintains, 
> and makes available to members freely distributable software.
> 
> b. Amend MDLUG bylaws, Section V Subsection A, to add part 7: Meeting 
> room logistics facilitator who manages the planning and set-up for the 
> MDLUG monthly meeting space.
> 
> c. Amend bylaws by adding Section V. Subsection C.: Appointed positions 
> may be held by an elected officer provided that he or she agrees to 
> assume the duties of the appointed position.
> 
> 
> 
> 3. Vote on the following motion:  Create Cafe Press Account to sell 
> MDLUG merchandise.
> 
> ------------------------
> 
> Following the business meeting we will have the following informational 
> sessions:
> 
> Tech Tip: "Don't rm, shred instead!" Presented by Mat Enders
> Quick tutorial on rsync presented by Mary Tomich
>  
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 



From driveray at ameritech.net  Thu Feb 11 03:03:24 2010
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 03:03:24 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Reminder: MDLUG Sat Feb 13 Meeting - 2010 Officer
 Election and Bylaw Changes
In-Reply-To: <4B73B745.8030107@ameritech.net>
References: <4B73B745.8030107@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <4B73B9CC.8080900@ameritech.net>

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Mary Tomich <mailto:secretary at mdlug.org> wrote:

>> 2. Vote on the following bylaw amendments:

The relevant section of the by-laws can be found here:
<http://mdlug.org/bylaws.html#APPOINTED_POSITIONS>

>> a. Eliminate paper library by amending MDLUG bylaws ( Section V, 
>> subsection A, part 6) to read: The librarian who collects, maintains, 
>> and makes available to members freely distributable software.

VA6 currently reads:
"The librarian who collects, maintains, and makes available to members
donated software and books."


>> b. Amend MDLUG bylaws, Section V Subsection A, to add part 7: Meeting 
>> room logistics facilitator who manages the planning and set-up for the 
>> MDLUG monthly meeting space.

The proposed 7 would be a new part.

>> c. Amend bylaws by adding Section V. Subsection C.: Appointed positions 
>> may be held by an elected officer provided that he or she agrees to 
>> assume the duties of the appointed position.

The proposed C would be a new subsection.


Raymond McLaughlin


From gib at juno.com  Thu Feb 11 20:42:03 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 01:42:03 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] Reminder: MDLUG Sat Feb 13 Meeting - 2010 Officer
	Election	 and Bylaw Changes
Message-ID: <20100211.204203.7718.0@webmail01.vgs.untd.com>


The Penguicon room party . . . did we want to talk about it?

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Raymond McLaughlin <driveray at ameritech.net>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Reminder: MDLUG Sat Feb 13 Meeting - 2010 Officer Election and Bylaw Changes
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 03:03:24 -0500

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Mary Tomich <mailto:secretary at mdlug.org> wrote:

>> 2. Vote on the following bylaw amendments:

The relevant section of the by-laws can be found here:
<http://mdlug.org/bylaws.html#APPOINTED_POSITIONS>

>> a. Eliminate paper library by amending MDLUG bylaws ( Section V, 
>> subsection A, part 6) to read: The librarian who collects, maintains, 
>> and makes available to members freely distributable software.

VA6 currently reads:
"The librarian who collects, maintains, and makes available to members
donated software and books."


>> b. Amend MDLUG bylaws, Section V Subsection A, to add part 7: Meeting 
>> room logistics facilitator who manages the planning and set-up for the 
>> MDLUG monthly meeting space.

The proposed 7 would be a new part.

>> c. Amend bylaws by adding Section V. Subsection C.: Appointed positions 
>> may be held by an elected officer provided that he or she agrees to 
>> assume the duties of the appointed position.

The proposed C would be a new subsection.


Raymond McLaughlin
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


____________________________________________________________
Diet Help
Cheap Diet Help Tips. Click here.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=ue_lVThD-J4JgRWqcxN4IAAAJz07QkQODMrtXujsdlflQzfUAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYQAAAAAA=


From gib at juno.com  Sat Feb 13 13:03:29 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 18:03:29 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] IRC for mdlug.org
Message-ID: <20100213.130329.17573.0@webmail24.vgs.untd.com>


I was just thinking of using the "mdlug.org" IRC channel freenode. 

____________________________________________________________
Nutrition
Improve your career health. Click now to study nutrition!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=ajYKLi_1_WB-EBsfQCFkggAAJz07QkQODMrtXujsdlflQzfUAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASQwAAAAA=


From bradmcmahon at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 12:55:44 2010
From: bradmcmahon at gmail.com (Bradley McMahon)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:55:44 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Penguicon call for talks
Message-ID: <9199bfb1002160955q3d1d5b43n7b42a54e9f785@mail.gmail.com>

Penguicon a SE Michigan Tech & SciFi con is coming up April 30th - May 2nd.

If your interested in giving a talk in or around the topics of
Costuming, Food, Video Games, Gaming, Green/Eco, Technology, Science,
DIY please reply to me offlist.

Why come to penguicon?:
- turn on, tune in, geek out
- free booze
- room parties
- hang out with fellow hacker, geeks, technophiles, infomaniacs, etc..
- learn a thing or two at the talks
Current guests: Larry Pesce (pauldotcom.com), Adrian "Irongeek"
Crenshaw, Shawn Powers (Linux Journal), blah blah a bunch more of
linux nerds


Why Talk?:
- Give three talks at the con (~3 hrs) and get a reduced entrance fee
- earn geek cred
- get access to certain vip areas

If you want more details check out penguicon.org

See you there,

-Brad McMahon
2010 Penguicon Tech programmer
and i3 member


From tesral at wowway.com  Wed Feb 17 11:09:09 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:09:09 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <9199bfb1002160955q3d1d5b43n7b42a54e9f785@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9199bfb1002160955q3d1d5b43n7b42a54e9f785@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>

I'm looking for any way to clear crashed Open Office without rebooting
the computer or restarting Xsever.  When the dang thing locks up it
locks, and I can't identify its processes in top to kill it. 

Any ideas? 

Open suse 11 with KDE.  Not a cli guru.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? -Mohandas K. Gandhi  
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From radkins at impelind.com  Wed Feb 17 11:28:56 2010
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins II)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:28:56 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>

The process should have something related to soffice.bin

Open up a terminal and type in the following:

ps -ef | grep soff

It should provide you a short list of any process with soff in the name,
which should be Open Office. Why soffice.bin you ask? It's a throwback to
when OpenOffice.org was Star Office.

The line should present you with the process name and the process ID.

To which you type in:

kill -9 <process number>

Which should kill the OpenOffice.org process.

-Rob
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Garry Stahl
> Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 11:09 AM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
> 
> I'm looking for any way to clear crashed Open Office without 
> rebooting the computer or restarting Xsever.  When the dang 
> thing locks up it locks, and I can't identify its processes 
> in top to kill it. 
> 
> Any ideas? 
> 
> Open suse 11 with KDE.  Not a cli guru.
> 
> --
> Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.
> 
> What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and 
> the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under 
> the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or 
> democracy? -Mohandas K. Gandhi Star Trek mort. Viva la Star 
> Trek admiraetur The Olde Phoenix Inn 
> http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com Metro Detroit Linux Users Group 
> http://www.mdlug.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 



From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Wed Feb 17 11:39:10 2010
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:39:10 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>
	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

killall -9 soffice.bin would do the trick, too.  :)  But only if you intend to... well, kill all soffice.bin processes. 

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Robert Adkins II
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 11:29 AM
To: 'MDLUG's Main discussion list'
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Office failures

The process should have something related to soffice.bin

Open up a terminal and type in the following:

ps -ef | grep soff

It should provide you a short list of any process with soff in the name,
which should be Open Office. Why soffice.bin you ask? It's a throwback to
when OpenOffice.org was Star Office.

The line should present you with the process name and the process ID.

To which you type in:

kill -9 <process number>

Which should kill the OpenOffice.org process.

-Rob
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Garry Stahl
> Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 11:09 AM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
> 
> I'm looking for any way to clear crashed Open Office without 
> rebooting the computer or restarting Xsever.  When the dang 
> thing locks up it locks, and I can't identify its processes 
> in top to kill it. 
> 
> Any ideas? 
> 
> Open suse 11 with KDE.  Not a cli guru.
> 
> --
> Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.
> 
> What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and 
> the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under 
> the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or 
> democracy? -Mohandas K. Gandhi Star Trek mort. Viva la Star 
> Trek admiraetur The Olde Phoenix Inn 
> http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com Metro Detroit Linux Users Group 
> http://www.mdlug.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From driveray at ameritech.net  Wed Feb 17 13:09:01 2010
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:09:01 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
Message-ID: <4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>

Wojtak, Greg wrote:
> killall -9 soffice.bin would do the trick, too.  :)
>But only if you intend to... well, kill all soffice.bin processes. 

Actually it would kill all soffice.bin processes that your current user
has permisions to kill. You *shouldn't* be able to kill processes of
other users. Of course this is of concern only on systems with multiple
concurrent users.

Raymond Mclaughlin



From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Wed Feb 17 13:33:55 2010
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:33:55 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>
	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B16D0A@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

Well, since my login id is 'root'...  ;) 

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Raymond McLaughlin
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 1:09 PM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Office failures

Wojtak, Greg wrote:
> killall -9 soffice.bin would do the trick, too.  :)
>But only if you intend to... well, kill all soffice.bin processes. 

Actually it would kill all soffice.bin processes that your current user
has permisions to kill. You *shouldn't* be able to kill processes of
other users. Of course this is of concern only on systems with multiple
concurrent users.

Raymond Mclaughlin

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 17 13:39:22 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:39:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>
	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <826576.32197.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

What is the difference between "kill -9" and "kill -15"




________________________________
From: Raymond McLaughlin <driveray at ameritech.net>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Wed, February 17, 2010 1:09:01 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Office failures

Wojtak, Greg wrote:
> killall -9 soffice.bin would do the trick, too.? :)
>But only if you intend to... well, kill all soffice.bin processes. 

Actually it would kill all soffice.bin processes that your current user
has permisions to kill. You *shouldn't* be able to kill processes of
other users. Of course this is of concern only on systems with multiple
concurrent users.

Raymond Mclaughlin

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      

From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 17 13:40:10 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:40:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B16D0A@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>
	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B16D0A@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
Message-ID: <474923.22596.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

What is the difference between "kill -9" and "kill -15"


David C. Lane 

?



________________________________
From: "Wojtak, Greg" <GregWojtak at quickenloans.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Wed, February 17, 2010 1:33:55 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Office failures

Well, since my login id is 'root'...? ;) 

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Raymond McLaughlin
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 1:09 PM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Office failures

Wojtak, Greg wrote:
> killall -9 soffice.bin would do the trick, too.? :)
>But only if you intend to... well, kill all soffice.bin processes. 

Actually it would kill all soffice.bin processes that your current user
has permisions to kill. You *shouldn't* be able to kill processes of
other users. Of course this is of concern only on systems with multiple
concurrent users.

Raymond Mclaughlin

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      

From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Wed Feb 17 13:57:51 2010
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:57:51 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Signals (was: Open Office failures)
In-Reply-To: <474923.22596.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com><20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com><9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com><4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net><9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B16D0A@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<474923.22596.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E03704665130@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: David Lane

> What is the difference between "kill -9" and "kill -15"

 On Linux, signal 15 is "SIGTERM", the "Terminate signal". By default,
if the application doesn't do anything, the OS will stop the program,
release its process ID, free its memory, etc. However, applications can
intercept this signal if they choose. Normally, an application that
intercepts this signal will then proceed to 'cleanly' shut down - safely
closing files, etc.

 However, if the application is in a bad state, this can go awry, and
the application doesn't shut down.

 Signal 9, on the other hand, is the "Kill signal". The OS doesn't give
the application any opportunity to intercept that signal. Instead, the
OS gets busy terminating the application with extreme prejudice. The
application gets no say in the matter, and doesn't get to close open
files cleanly or anything like that.

 So, "kill -15" is the equivalent of "Shut down, please." On the other
hand, "kill -9" is the equivalent of "Die sucker! *Bang*!"

 Note: sometimes even "kill -9" doesn't work. Generally this is a
symptom of either a bug in the kernel or some kind of hardware issue. If
the application is trying to read or write from a disk, for example, and
there's a hardware error that's hanging part of the kernel.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                                   (313)
227-2317

 "On two occasions I have been asked,  'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put
into
  the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' ...I am
not
    able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could
 provoke such a question." - Charles Babbage, inventor of the first
computer

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.



From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Wed Feb 17 13:59:15 2010
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:59:15 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <474923.22596.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>
	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B16D0A@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<474923.22596.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B16DCC@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

Technically, they can vary from system to system.  In practice, I haven't run across a UNIX or UNIX-like system where they are different.  Kill -9 sends a SIGKILL to the process, which is not trappable - that is, it is immediately killed off from the process table.  Kill -15 sends a SIGTERM which also tells the process to die off, but it is trappable and the process can therefore call a function to run cleanup before actually dying off.

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of David Lane
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 1:40 PM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Office failures

What is the difference between "kill -9" and "kill -15"


David C. Lane 

?



________________________________
From: "Wojtak, Greg" <GregWojtak at quickenloans.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Wed, February 17, 2010 1:33:55 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Office failures

Well, since my login id is 'root'...? ;) 

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Raymond McLaughlin
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 1:09 PM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Office failures

Wojtak, Greg wrote:
> killall -9 soffice.bin would do the trick, too.? :)
>But only if you intend to... well, kill all soffice.bin processes. 

Actually it would kill all soffice.bin processes that your current user
has permisions to kill. You *shouldn't* be able to kill processes of
other users. Of course this is of concern only on systems with multiple
concurrent users.

Raymond Mclaughlin

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 13:58:59 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:58:59 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <826576.32197.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>
	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>
	<826576.32197.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e91002171058s5beaad77m3ad2914bfb93d39f@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 1:39 PM, David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com> wrote:
> What is the difference between "kill -9" and "kill -15"

15 asks nicely.  9 doesn't.

KDE should have a graphical process monitor of some sort that you
could use to kill it instead.  On Ubuntu with Gnome it's System >
Administration > System Monitor > Processes.


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 17 14:08:21 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:08:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e91002171058s5beaad77m3ad2914bfb93d39f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>
	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>
	<826576.32197.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<b02c40e91002171058s5beaad77m3ad2914bfb93d39f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <403101.37185.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I remembered that But I was not sure the one that asked nicely.? 

Back to Open Office, when it runs into trouble are the JAVA resources an issue?


David C. Lane

?



________________________________
From: Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Wed, February 17, 2010 1:58:59 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Office failures

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 1:39 PM, David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com> wrote:
> What is the difference between "kill -9" and "kill -15"

15 asks nicely.? 9 doesn't.

KDE should have a graphical process monitor of some sort that you
could use to kill it instead.? On Ubuntu with Gnome it's System >
Administration > System Monitor > Processes.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      

From awilliam at opengroupware.us  Wed Feb 17 14:44:05 2010
From: awilliam at opengroupware.us (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:44:05 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <403101.37185.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>
	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>
	<826576.32197.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<b02c40e91002171058s5beaad77m3ad2914bfb93d39f@mail.gmail.com>
	<403101.37185.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1266435845.3321.5.camel@linux-m3mt>

On Wed, 2010-02-17 at 11:08 -0800, David Lane wrote:
> I remembered that But I was not sure the one that asked nicely.  
> Back to Open Office, when it runs into trouble are the JAVA resources an issue?

There is little point in blindly blaming any component.  You'd need to
use strace, lsof, fuser, and friends to try and narrow down the hung
component.

On the other hand recent versions of Open Office are very stable - so
the possibly exists that the problem isn't even Open Office but some
other component of your stack and the issue is merely manifesting in
Open Office.  OOo is a large and powerful application that pushes
underlying libraries and components pretty hard.

If you can repeat the hang run it under gdb and capture the stack.



From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 17 15:01:26 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:01:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <1266435845.3321.5.camel@linux-m3mt>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>
	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>
	<826576.32197.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<b02c40e91002171058s5beaad77m3ad2914bfb93d39f@mail.gmail.com>
	<403101.37185.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<1266435845.3321.5.camel@linux-m3mt>
Message-ID: <957807.77646.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Well that was the thing: I have used OO for quite some time on both Windows and linux and I have not had a problem.

When I did it was because of something else. I have a windows node that has both OO and office 2007 and I contenually use OO.

David C. Lane 




________________________________
From: Adam Tauno Williams <awilliam at opengroupware.us>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Wed, February 17, 2010 2:44:05 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Office failures

On Wed, 2010-02-17 at 11:08 -0800, David Lane wrote:
> I remembered that But I was not sure the one that asked nicely.? 
> Back to Open Office, when it runs into trouble are the JAVA resources an issue?

There is little point in blindly blaming any component.? You'd need to
use strace, lsof, fuser, and friends to try and narrow down the hung
component.

On the other hand recent versions of Open Office are very stable - so
the possibly exists that the problem isn't even Open Office but some
other component of your stack and the issue is merely manifesting in
Open Office.? OOo is a large and powerful application that pushes
underlying libraries and components pretty hard.

If you can repeat the hang run it under gdb and capture the stack.

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      

From tesral at wowway.com  Wed Feb 17 15:14:58 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:14:58 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <403101.37185.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>	<4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>	<826576.32197.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<b02c40e91002171058s5beaad77m3ad2914bfb93d39f@mail.gmail.com>
	<403101.37185.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4B7C4E42.6010305@wowway.com>

David Lane wrote:
> I remembered that But I was not sure the one that asked nicely.  
>
> Back to Open Office, when it runs into trouble are the JAVA resources an issue?
>
>
>   
I couldn't tell you and would not know how to check.  The symptom is a
total lock of Open Office.  Can't do anything with it can't close it. 
The rest of the computer sails along without a hitch.  I just have one
desktop I can't do anything with.  I usually end up ending the session. 
That does clear it out.

Java problems?  Would not surprise me.  Java is the weak link in OO.


-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? -Mohandas K. Gandhi  
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From tesral at wowway.com  Wed Feb 17 15:17:45 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:17:45 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <957807.77646.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>	<4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>	<826576.32197.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<b02c40e91002171058s5beaad77m3ad2914bfb93d39f@mail.gmail.com>	<403101.37185.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<1266435845.3321.5.camel@linux-m3mt>
	<957807.77646.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4B7C4EE9.7070606@wowway.com>

David Lane wrote:
> Well that was the thing: I have used OO for quite some time on both Windows and linux and I have not had a problem.
>
> When I did it was because of something else. I have a windows node that has both OO and office 2007 and I contenually use OO.
>   
Likewise.  Firefox is more likely to hang than OO.  But once in a while
it does.  I multitask a machine pretty hard coming form the Amiga side. 
Four desktops open and multiple windows in each. 


-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? -Mohandas K. Gandhi  
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From jrw32982 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 17 15:27:42 2010
From: jrw32982 at yahoo.com (John Wiersba)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:27:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <mailman.24.1266433501.4724.mdlug@mdlug.org>
References: <mailman.24.1266433501.4724.mdlug@mdlug.org>
Message-ID: <890241.42966.qm@web52705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

In general, it's a bad idea to run programs such as Open Office as root.

-- John Wiersba


Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:33:55 -0500
From: "Wojtak, Greg" <GregWojtak at quickenloans.com>
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Office failures
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Message-ID:
    <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B16D0A at EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
    
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Well, since my login id is 'root'...  ;) 



      

From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 17 15:29:04 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:29:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <4B7C4E42.6010305@wowway.com>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>
	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>
	<826576.32197.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<b02c40e91002171058s5beaad77m3ad2914bfb93d39f@mail.gmail.com>
	<403101.37185.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4B7C4E42.6010305@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <186490.70338.qm@web37907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

"top" could tell you what is using up cpu resources.

David C. Lane




________________________________
From: Garry Stahl <tesral at wowway.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Wed, February 17, 2010 3:14:58 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Office failures

David Lane wrote:
> I remembered that But I was not sure the one that asked nicely.? 
>
> Back to Open Office, when it runs into trouble are the JAVA resources an issue?
>
>
>? 
I couldn't tell you and would not know how to check.? The symptom is a
total lock of Open Office.? Can't do anything with it can't close it. 
The rest of the computer sails along without a hitch.? I just have one
desktop I can't do anything with.? I usually end up ending the session. 
That does clear it out.

Java problems?? Would not surprise me.? Java is the weak link in OO.


-- 
Garry? AKA? --Phoenix--? Rising above the Flames.

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? -Mohandas K. Gandhi? 
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      

From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 17 15:30:24 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:30:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <890241.42966.qm@web52705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.24.1266433501.4724.mdlug@mdlug.org>
	<890241.42966.qm@web52705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <830566.83533.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I think the goal was to kill other users.




________________________________
From: John Wiersba <jrw32982 at yahoo.com>
To: mdlug at mdlug.org
Sent: Wed, February 17, 2010 3:27:42 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Office failures

In general, it's a bad idea to run programs such as Open Office as root.

-- John Wiersba


Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:33:55 -0500
From: "Wojtak, Greg" <GregWojtak at quickenloans.com>
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Office failures
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Message-ID:
? ? <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B16D0A at EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
? ? 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Well, since my login id is 'root'...? ;) 



? ? ? 
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      

From dand at zifferent.net  Wed Feb 17 16:31:02 2010
From: dand at zifferent.net (Dan DeSloover)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:31:02 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <474923.22596.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>
	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B16D0A@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<474923.22596.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <40686.10.1.1.110.1266442262.squirrel@www.zifferent.net>

Oh about 6.

David Lane wrote:
> What is the difference between "kill -9" and "kill -15"
>
>
> David C. Lane
>
> ?
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "Wojtak, Greg" <GregWojtak at quickenloans.com>
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Sent: Wed, February 17, 2010 1:33:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Office failures
>
> Well, since my login id is 'root'...? ;)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
> Of Raymond McLaughlin
> Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 1:09 PM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Office failures
>
> Wojtak, Greg wrote:
>> killall -9 soffice.bin would do the trick, too.? :)
>>But only if you intend to... well, kill all soffice.bin processes.
>
> Actually it would kill all soffice.bin processes that your current user
> has permisions to kill. You *shouldn't* be able to kill processes of
> other users. Of course this is of concern only on systems with multiple
> concurrent users.
>
> Raymond Mclaughlin
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


----
Dan DeSloover



From dand at zifferent.net  Wed Feb 17 16:34:45 2010
From: dand at zifferent.net (Dan DeSloover)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:34:45 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <957807.77646.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>
	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>
	<826576.32197.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<b02c40e91002171058s5beaad77m3ad2914bfb93d39f@mail.gmail.com>
	<403101.37185.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<1266435845.3321.5.camel@linux-m3mt>
	<957807.77646.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <46900.10.1.1.110.1266442485.squirrel@www.zifferent.net>

Have you tried xkill?
Type
#xkill
and then point and click at the program that you want to die.
BTW are you running an X session logged in as root?


David Lane wrote:
> Well that was the thing: I have used OO for quite some time on both
> Windows and linux and I have not had a problem.
>
> When I did it was because of something else. I have a windows node that
> has both OO and office 2007 and I contenually use OO.
>
> David C. Lane
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Adam Tauno Williams <awilliam at opengroupware.us>
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Sent: Wed, February 17, 2010 2:44:05 PM
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Office failures
>
> On Wed, 2010-02-17 at 11:08 -0800, David Lane wrote:
>> I remembered that But I was not sure the one that asked nicely.?
>> Back to Open Office, when it runs into trouble are the JAVA resources an
>> issue?
>
> There is little point in blindly blaming any component.? You'd need to
> use strace, lsof, fuser, and friends to try and narrow down the hung
> component.
>
> On the other hand recent versions of Open Office are very stable - so
> the possibly exists that the problem isn't even Open Office but some
> other component of your stack and the issue is merely manifesting in
> Open Office.? OOo is a large and powerful application that pushes
> underlying libraries and components pretty hard.
>
> If you can repeat the hang run it under gdb and capture the stack.
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


----
Dan DeSloover



From tesral at wowway.com  Wed Feb 17 16:46:30 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:46:30 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <890241.42966.qm@web52705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.24.1266433501.4724.mdlug@mdlug.org>
	<890241.42966.qm@web52705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4B7C63B6.50207@wowway.com>

John Wiersba wrote:
> In general, it's a bad idea to run programs such as Open Office as root.
>   

In general isn't it a bad idea to run as root?  Something I never do
unless I need root.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? -Mohandas K. Gandhi  
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From bobdion at starline-ent.com  Wed Feb 17 22:01:25 2010
From: bobdion at starline-ent.com (bob dion)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 21:01:25 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e91002171058s5beaad77m3ad2914bfb93d39f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>	<4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>	<826576.32197.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<b02c40e91002171058s5beaad77m3ad2914bfb93d39f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B7CAD85.4010803@wideopenwest.com>


> KDE should have a graphical process monitor of some sort that you
> could use to kill it instead.  On Ubuntu with Gnome it's System >
> Administration > System Monitor > Processes.
>

In KDE press Ctrl-Esc to bring up the process table
press Ctrl-Alt-Esc to invoke xkill, press Esc again to cancel xkill.

and sometimes pressing Esc while clicking on the X icon window control 
will kill the program.

Bob


From micorral at comcast.net  Thu Feb 18 00:46:06 2010
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:46:06 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <403101.37185.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>
	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>
	<826576.32197.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<b02c40e91002171058s5beaad77m3ad2914bfb93d39f@mail.gmail.com>
	<403101.37185.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.1002180043420.2337@banana.sluggo.net>

2010-02-17, Monsieur David Lane a ecrit:
> Back to Open Office, when it runs into trouble are the JAVA resources
> an issue?

What "JAVA resources" are you talking about? Open Office is not a
Java application.

P.S. Note how I didn't use all uppercase letters for Java. :)

Michael


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 01:31:24 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 01:31:24 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.00.1002180043420.2337@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>
	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>
	<826576.32197.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<b02c40e91002171058s5beaad77m3ad2914bfb93d39f@mail.gmail.com>
	<403101.37185.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1002180043420.2337@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <b02c40e91002172231j59541f03re0432853b997bbef@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 12:46 AM, Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net> wrote:
> 2010-02-17, Monsieur David Lane a ecrit:
>> Back to Open Office, when it runs into trouble are the JAVA resources
>> an issue?
>
> What "JAVA resources" are you talking about? Open Office is not a
> Java application.
>

Base is a Java app.


From micorral at comcast.net  Thu Feb 18 02:09:16 2010
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 02:09:16 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e91002172231j59541f03re0432853b997bbef@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>
	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>
	<826576.32197.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<b02c40e91002171058s5beaad77m3ad2914bfb93d39f@mail.gmail.com>
	<403101.37185.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1002180043420.2337@banana.sluggo.net>
	<b02c40e91002172231j59541f03re0432853b997bbef@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.1002180157450.3668@banana.sluggo.net>

2010-02-18, Monsieur Jeff Hanson a ecrit:
> On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 12:46 AM, Michael Corral wrote:
>> 2010-02-17, Monsieur David Lane a ecrit:
>>> Back to Open Office, when it runs into trouble are the JAVA resources
>>> an issue?
>>
>> What "JAVA resources" are you talking about? Open Office is not a
>> Java application.
>
> Base is a Java app.

http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/FAQ_(Base)#Java

Short version: It can use Java, but can still run without it.
So I wouldn't call it a Java app.

And Writer, Calc, Impress, Draw, and Math are not Java apps at all.

I've run Open Office on machines without Java installed, and believe
me, it's more than capable of crashing on its own. :)

Michael


From carl at carltm.com  Thu Feb 18 06:01:56 2010
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 06:01:56 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] used servers for sale?
Message-ID: <a541d060071f6bb618a43fd9f364136f.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

I often use older servers for projects and this is the
first time I need something better than what I have on
hand.  I'm setting up a private cloud (yeah, I know that's
an oxymoron) and need two or three servers with a little
horsepower.  Where are the good sources of 1 to 3 year
old servers?

c




From billings at negate.org  Thu Feb 18 08:28:44 2010
From: billings at negate.org (Jonathan Billings)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 08:28:44 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.00.1002180043420.2337@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>
	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>
	<826576.32197.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<b02c40e91002171058s5beaad77m3ad2914bfb93d39f@mail.gmail.com>
	<403101.37185.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1002180043420.2337@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <20100218132843.GC2337@caen-gx755.engin.umich.edu>

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 12:46:06AM -0500, Michael Corral wrote:
>
> 2010-02-17, Monsieur David Lane a ecrit:
> > Back to Open Office, when it runs into trouble are the JAVA resources
> > an issue?
> 
> What "JAVA resources" are you talking about? Open Office is not a
> Java application.

One of the first things I do when I use OpenOffice on a new system is
turn off Java:

Just go to the Tools menu -> Options, then click on the "Java" subitem
under "OpenOffice.org" and unclick the "Use a java runtime
environment".  

I've found it speeds up OpenOffice applications.  (although this might
not be the case anymore with faster computers)

-- 
Jonathan Billings <billings at negate.org>


From smunro622 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 08:36:10 2010
From: smunro622 at gmail.com (stuart munro)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 08:36:10 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] used servers for sale?
In-Reply-To: <a541d060071f6bb618a43fd9f364136f.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
References: <a541d060071f6bb618a43fd9f364136f.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <37D4713C-F030-45DB-B6F6-56F08200CB27@gmail.com>

I use a company called stallard technologies

http://www.stikc.com/

I deal with matt crall he is a good  guy..


On Feb 18, 2010, at 6:01 AM, Carl T. Miller wrote:

> I often use older servers for projects and this is the
> first time I need something better than what I have on
> hand.  I'm setting up a private cloud (yeah, I know that's
> an oxymoron) and need two or three servers with a little
> horsepower.  Where are the good sources of 1 to 3 year
> old servers?
> 
> c
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 18 08:51:49 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 05:51:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <20100218132843.GC2337@caen-gx755.engin.umich.edu>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>
	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>
	<826576.32197.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<b02c40e91002171058s5beaad77m3ad2914bfb93d39f@mail.gmail.com>
	<403101.37185.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1002180043420.2337@banana.sluggo.net>
	<20100218132843.GC2337@caen-gx755.engin.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <401343.64100.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I will look at that. 

I'm a fan of compiling to binary. 

Some of the backgound resources in Education Admin Systems (Datatel) have Java elements that bog down the servers and the hardware is 
under powered. the vender chose Java because the Java runtime envornment is very portable. however there is a scaling issue. Many times the applications that we write are scaled after the fact. 

I run across a lot of schools that get hammered on the web because the Java processes are not running fast enough. 

I still hold on to my old 286 development standard, If you can make a process run fast on a 286 PC then that is good code. 

I love OO it does every thing that I need it to, almost (Visio: another thread.). It does take a while to load. 



David C. Lane 


________________________________
From: Jonathan Billings <billings at negate.org>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Thu, February 18, 2010 8:28:44 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Office failures

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 12:46:06AM -0500, Michael Corral wrote:
>
> 2010-02-17, Monsieur David Lane a ecrit:
> > Back to Open Office, when it runs into trouble are the JAVA resources
> > an issue?
> 
> What "JAVA resources" are you talking about? Open Office is not a
> Java application.

One of the first things I do when I use OpenOffice on a new system is
turn off Java:

Just go to the Tools menu -> Options, then click on the "Java" subitem
under "OpenOffice.org" and unclick the "Use a java runtime
environment".? 

I've found it speeds up OpenOffice applications.? (although this might
not be the case anymore with faster computers)

-- 
Jonathan Billings <billings at negate.org>
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      

From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 18 08:54:40 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 05:54:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] i7 i5 or i3
Message-ID: <149906.30660.qm@web37902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Can anyone share their?performance experence with the latest Intel i7, i5, or i3.
?
David C. Lane 


      

From dand at zifferent.net  Thu Feb 18 09:03:11 2010
From: dand at zifferent.net (Dan DeSloover)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:03:11 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <401343.64100.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>
	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>
	<826576.32197.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<b02c40e91002171058s5beaad77m3ad2914bfb93d39f@mail.gmail.com>
	<403101.37185.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1002180043420.2337@banana.sluggo.net>
	<20100218132843.GC2337@caen-gx755.engin.umich.edu>
	<401343.64100.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <24156.12.107.188.5.1266501791.squirrel@www.zifferent.net>

I've been using Open Office Draw as a Visio replacement, and it isn't half
bad. Certainly better than Kivio or Dia. It could use some refinement, but
it's the best I have on my Linux systems.

David Lane wrote:
> I will look at that.
>
> I'm a fan of compiling to binary.
>
> Some of the backgound resources in Education Admin Systems (Datatel) have
> Java elements that bog down the servers and the hardware is
> under powered. the vender chose Java because the Java runtime envornment
> is very portable. however there is a scaling issue. Many times the
> applications that we write are scaled after the fact.
>
> I run across a lot of schools that get hammered on the web because the
> Java processes are not running fast enough.
>
> I still hold on to my old 286 development standard, If you can make a
> process run fast on a 286 PC then that is good code.
>
> I love OO it does every thing that I need it to, almost (Visio: another
> thread.). It does take a while to load.
>
>
>
> David C. Lane
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Jonathan Billings <billings at negate.org>
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Sent: Thu, February 18, 2010 8:28:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Office failures
>
> On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 12:46:06AM -0500, Michael Corral wrote:
>>
>> 2010-02-17, Monsieur David Lane a ecrit:
>> > Back to Open Office, when it runs into trouble are the JAVA resources
>> > an issue?
>>
>> What "JAVA resources" are you talking about? Open Office is not a
>> Java application.
>
> One of the first things I do when I use OpenOffice on a new system is
> turn off Java:
>
> Just go to the Tools menu -> Options, then click on the "Java" subitem
> under "OpenOffice.org" and unclick the "Use a java runtime
> environment".?
>
> I've found it speeds up OpenOffice applications.? (although this might
> not be the case anymore with faster computers)
>
> --
> Jonathan Billings <billings at negate.org>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


----
Dan DeSloover



From dand at zifferent.net  Thu Feb 18 09:05:01 2010
From: dand at zifferent.net (Dan DeSloover)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:05:01 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] i7 i5 or i3
In-Reply-To: <149906.30660.qm@web37902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <149906.30660.qm@web37902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <29260.12.107.188.5.1266501901.squirrel@www.zifferent.net>


Recent article:
http://techreport.com/articles.x/18448

taken from Slashdot:
http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/10/02/16/2212220/Todays-Best-CPUs-Compared-To-a-Pentium-4?art_pos=1

David Lane wrote:
> Can anyone share their?performance experence with the latest Intel i7, i5,
> or i3.
> ?
> David C. Lane
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


----
Dan DeSloover



From gib at juno.com  Thu Feb 18 14:36:18 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:36:18 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] i7 i5 or i3
Message-ID: <20100218.143618.4864.1@webmail24.vgs.untd.com>

 
You may want to look at TomsHardware.com  they do a lot of benchmarks of CPUs.

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Dan DeSloover" <dand at zifferent.net>
To: "MDLUG's Main discussion list" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: Re: [mdlug] i7 i5 or i3
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:05:01 -0500 (EST)


Recent article:
http://techreport.com/articles.x/18448

taken from Slashdot:
http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/10/02/16/2212220/Todays-Best-CPUs-Compared-To-a-Pentium-4?art_pos=1

David Lane wrote:
> Can anyone share their performance experence with the latest Intel i7, i5,
> or i3.
>  
> David C. Lane
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


----
Dan DeSloover

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
____________________________________________________________
Small Business Tools
Click to find the latest solutions to enhance your small business.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=cmNgoqC5AZOII0UaMkK8SwAAJz07QkQODMrtXujsdlflQzfUAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARMQAAAAA=

From carl at carltm.com  Fri Feb 19 06:56:14 2010
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 06:56:14 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] used servers for sale?
In-Reply-To: <37D4713C-F030-45DB-B6F6-56F08200CB27@gmail.com>
References: <a541d060071f6bb618a43fd9f364136f.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
	<37D4713C-F030-45DB-B6F6-56F08200CB27@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <62ffd683d725913734cfebce5049c3a5.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

Thanks.  I was very impressed by their website, and
they had exactly what I wanted for less than I had
budgeted.  I'm happy.

c


stuart munro wrote:
> I use a company called stallard technologies
>
> http://www.stikc.com/
>
> I deal with matt crall he is a good  guy..
>
>
> On Feb 18, 2010, at 6:01 AM, Carl T. Miller wrote:
>
>> I often use older servers for projects and this is the
>> first time I need something better than what I have on
>> hand.  I'm setting up a private cloud (yeah, I know that's
>> an oxymoron) and need two or three servers with a little
>> horsepower.  Where are the good sources of 1 to 3 year
>> old servers?
>>
>> c
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mdlug mailing list
>> mdlug at mdlug.org
>> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>




From robert.citek at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 12:35:19 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:35:19 -0700
Subject: [mdlug] AT&T DSL -- ity, bitty rant
Message-ID: <4145b6791002190935j73f35a1bn26f1df70d04cdb8b@mail.gmail.com>

I just had AT&T DSL installed in my house.  What was different is that
I got the dry-loop, the kind that does not require phone service nor
do I need the filters as the jacks wouldn't be used for phones.  The
house was wired via a line splitter to go to three jacks in the house,
one in each of three rooms: kitchen, family room, and master bedroom.
The line splitter is in the basement and was not the modular kind but
rather the old screw-post kind.  What amazes me is that the tech from
AT&T cut the wires to all the jacks and then connected the kitchen
wires to the incoming line with wire connectors.  And not the screw
kind connectors, but the crimp kind.  Unlike the other jacks in the
house, the kitchen jack is a mounted at about shoulder level on a bare
wall with no shelf nor counter nor power outlet.  So now I have a
phone cable snaking across the wall and wall edges to the closest
power outlet about 15 feet away in the dining room instead of
someplace less conspicuous, e.g. the family room next to the
entertainment system.

Sure, I could go in the basement, splice cable, and rewire things the
way they should be, but I shouldn't have to.  That's like going to a
restaurant expecting good service and food, getting served a
half-baked chicken pot pie, and having to take the pie back into the
kitchen to finish baking it myself.

What's odd is that I have had AT&T DSL in the past.  Never had an
issue.  At that time I also had phone service on the same line, so
cutting wires wouldn't make sense.

Why would the AT&T tech cut the wires to the other rooms?  And if he
had to cut wires and had to choose, why didn't he ask me (I was in the
house the entire time)?  And if he would not ask, why keep the wires
live that lead to the most inconvenient place to put a DSL modem?

Mind boggling.

Regards,
- Robert


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 13:01:28 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:01:28 -0700
Subject: [mdlug] lightning talks?
Message-ID: <4145b6791002191001t5c7cbd52o66c5383457b8ad4b@mail.gmail.com>

I was browsing the YAPC::NA 2010 site (it's in Columbus, OH, June 21-23):

http://conferences.mongueurs.net/yn2010/

and noticed they have lightning talks again on the schedule.

Has mdlug ever had lightning talks for one of its meetings?  If so,
when are the next lightning talks scheduled?  For more info on
lightning talks:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_Talk

Regards,
- Robert


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 12:50:00 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 12:50:00 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] AT&T DSL -- ity, bitty rant
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791002190935j73f35a1bn26f1df70d04cdb8b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4145b6791002190935j73f35a1bn26f1df70d04cdb8b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B7ECF48.5070800@gmail.com>

Robert Citek wrote:
> I just had AT&T DSL installed in my house.  What was different is that
> I got the dry-loop, the kind that does not require phone service nor
> do I need the filters as the jacks wouldn't be used for phones.  The
> house was wired via a line splitter to go to three jacks in the house,
> one in each of three rooms: kitchen, family room, and master bedroom.
> The line splitter is in the basement and was not the modular kind but
> rather the old screw-post kind.  What amazes me is that the tech from
> AT&T cut the wires to all the jacks and then connected the kitchen
> wires to the incoming line with wire connectors.  And not the screw
> kind connectors, but the crimp kind.  Unlike the other jacks in the
> house, the kitchen jack is a mounted at about shoulder level on a bare
> wall with no shelf nor counter nor power outlet.  So now I have a
> phone cable snaking across the wall and wall edges to the closest
> power outlet about 15 feet away in the dining room instead of
> someplace less conspicuous, e.g. the family room next to the
> entertainment system.
> 
> Sure, I could go in the basement, splice cable, and rewire things the
> way they should be, but I shouldn't have to.  That's like going to a
> restaurant expecting good service and food, getting served a
> half-baked chicken pot pie, and having to take the pie back into the
> kitchen to finish baking it myself.
> 
> What's odd is that I have had AT&T DSL in the past.  Never had an
> issue.  At that time I also had phone service on the same line, so
> cutting wires wouldn't make sense.
> 
> Why would the AT&T tech cut the wires to the other rooms?  And if he
> had to cut wires and had to choose, why didn't he ask me (I was in the
> house the entire time)?  And if he would not ask, why keep the wires
> live that lead to the most inconvenient place to put a DSL modem?
> 
> Mind boggling.

1. Call AT&T and ask why they did that.
2. Then explain that the current situation is less than acceptable
3. And lastly, ask what they will do to make you happy.

Maybe they'll give you a month of free service or something
to compensate you for having to repair your indoor wiring.
[AT&T can do whatever they want to the outdoor wiring, and
will do whatever, without charging you, but repairing indoor
wiring, they charge you -- likewise, if they damage indoor
wiring, they are liable for the repair thereof.]


From gib at juno.com  Fri Feb 19 13:48:45 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:48:45 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  lightning talks?
Message-ID: <20100219.134845.26070.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>

 
Yes, we had lightning talks the past meeting.  We will be doing talks every month.
Gee, perhaps we should send out a note about them.
I did a short talk about something this past month that was recorded at "MUG.org" meeting that I then repeated at the "MDLUG.org" meeting.  It was about BerkeleyTIP, another group of people who enjoy technical topics.


---------- Original Message ----------
From: Robert Citek <robert.citek at gmail.com>
To: "MDLUG's Main discussion list" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: [mdlug] lightning talks?
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:01:28 -0700

I was browsing the YAPC::NA 2010 site (it's in Columbus, OH, June 21-23):

http://conferences.mongueurs.net/yn2010/

and noticed they have lightning talks again on the schedule.

Has mdlug ever had lightning talks for one of its meetings?  If so,
when are the next lightning talks scheduled?  For more info on
lightning talks:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_Talk

Regards,
- Robert
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

____________________________________________________________
Weight Loss Program
Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=PBIaDLm9pMrrMk9pxVGizgAAJz07QkQODMrtXujsdlflQzfUAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEUgAAAAA=

From gib at juno.com  Fri Feb 19 13:51:50 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:51:50 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  AT&T DSL -- ity, bitty rant
Message-ID: <20100219.135150.26070.1@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>

 
Yeah, when the AT&T tech installed my DSL he reused an old wire. He connected the wire from the DSL modem to my other phone lines backwards (from the phones to the DSL - okay that's hard to explain).

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: Re: [mdlug] AT&T DSL -- ity, bitty rant
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 12:50:00 -0500

Robert Citek wrote:
> I just had AT&T DSL installed in my house.  What was different is that
> I got the dry-loop, the kind that does not require phone service nor
> do I need the filters as the jacks wouldn't be used for phones.  The
> house was wired via a line splitter to go to three jacks in the house,
> one in each of three rooms: kitchen, family room, and master bedroom.
> The line splitter is in the basement and was not the modular kind but
> rather the old screw-post kind.  What amazes me is that the tech from
> AT&T cut the wires to all the jacks and then connected the kitchen
> wires to the incoming line with wire connectors.  And not the screw
> kind connectors, but the crimp kind.  Unlike the other jacks in the
> house, the kitchen jack is a mounted at about shoulder level on a bare
> wall with no shelf nor counter nor power outlet.  So now I have a
> phone cable snaking across the wall and wall edges to the closest
> power outlet about 15 feet away in the dining room instead of
> someplace less conspicuous, e.g. the family room next to the
> entertainment system.
> 
> Sure, I could go in the basement, splice cable, and rewire things the
> way they should be, but I shouldn't have to.  That's like going to a
> restaurant expecting good service and food, getting served a
> half-baked chicken pot pie, and having to take the pie back into the
> kitchen to finish baking it myself.
> 
> What's odd is that I have had AT&T DSL in the past.  Never had an
> issue.  At that time I also had phone service on the same line, so
> cutting wires wouldn't make sense.
> 
> Why would the AT&T tech cut the wires to the other rooms?  And if he
> had to cut wires and had to choose, why didn't he ask me (I was in the
> house the entire time)?  And if he would not ask, why keep the wires
> live that lead to the most inconvenient place to put a DSL modem?
> 
> Mind boggling.

1. Call AT&T and ask why they did that.
2. Then explain that the current situation is less than acceptable
3. And lastly, ask what they will do to make you happy.

Maybe they'll give you a month of free service or something
to compensate you for having to repair your indoor wiring.
[AT&T can do whatever they want to the outdoor wiring, and
will do whatever, without charging you, but repairing indoor
wiring, they charge you -- likewise, if they damage indoor
wiring, they are liable for the repair thereof.]
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

____________________________________________________________
Senior Assisted Living
Put your loved ones in good hands with quality senior assisted living. Click now!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=pwoJ9TGjcDiInDPFzdFJTgAAJz07QkQODMrtXujsdlflQzfUAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASUQAAAAA=

From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 23:52:57 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:52:57 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] lightning talks?
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791002191001t5c7cbd52o66c5383457b8ad4b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4145b6791002191001t5c7cbd52o66c5383457b8ad4b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B7F6AA9.4040408@gmail.com>

Robert Citek wrote:
> I was browsing the YAPC::NA 2010 site (it's in Columbus, OH, June 21-23):
> 
> http://conferences.mongueurs.net/yn2010/
> 
> and noticed they have lightning talks again on the schedule.
> 
> Has mdlug ever had lightning talks for one of its meetings?  If so,
> when are the next lightning talks scheduled?  For more info on
> lightning talks:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_Talk

When I go to a conference, I want presentations which explain
things deeply enough that I can get up and running with the
new idea.

The LAST thing I want at a conference is a bunch of 5-minute
presentations which cannot possibly go into a subject any
deeper than the typical article on arstechnica

In other words, as far as I'm concerned, the "Lightning Talk"
is a 25-cent word for a waste of the limited and valuable
space at a conference.


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 23:59:45 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:59:45 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] lightning talks?
In-Reply-To: <4B7F6AA9.4040408@gmail.com>
References: <4145b6791002191001t5c7cbd52o66c5383457b8ad4b@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B7F6AA9.4040408@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B7F6C41.7080500@gmail.com>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> Robert Citek wrote:
>> I was browsing the YAPC::NA 2010 site (it's in Columbus, OH, June 21-23):
>>
>> http://conferences.mongueurs.net/yn2010/
>>
>> and noticed they have lightning talks again on the schedule.
>>
>> Has mdlug ever had lightning talks for one of its meetings?  If so,
>> when are the next lightning talks scheduled?  For more info on
>> lightning talks:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_Talk
> 
> When I go to a conference, I want presentations which explain
> things deeply enough that I can get up and running with the
> new idea.
> 
> The LAST thing I want at a conference is a bunch of 5-minute
> presentations which cannot possibly go into a subject any
> deeper than the typical article on arstechnica
> 
> In other words, as far as I'm concerned, the "Lightning Talk"
> is a 25-cent word for a waste of the limited and valuable
> space at a conference.


Ooops, you were talking about meetings.  This being
Penguicon-planning season, and your original context
of conferences, I thought you were asking if we were
doing this at Penguicon.

A 5-10 minute presentation at a regular meeting is an ok
thing (I have NO idea why conference planners such as those
at YAPC::NA would include such things).


From jbroughton at twmi.rr.com  Sun Feb 21 19:57:38 2010
From: jbroughton at twmi.rr.com (Jim Broughton)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 19:57:38 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <4B7C4E42.6010305@wowway.com>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>	<4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>	<826576.32197.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<b02c40e91002171058s5beaad77m3ad2914bfb93d39f@mail.gmail.com>	<403101.37185.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4B7C4E42.6010305@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <4B81D682.1070505@twmi.rr.com>

Control + alt + esc   this is the xwindows kde  program kill sequence. 
When you do it you should get
a skull and crossbones icon in place of your mouse pointer. Move it over 
the offending
window and click the left mouse button. Enjoy the death of your 
offending program.

Jim



Garry Stahl wrote:
> David Lane wrote:
>   
>> I remembered that But I was not sure the one that asked nicely.  
>>
>> Back to Open Office, when it runs into trouble are the JAVA resources an issue?
>>
>>
>>   
>>     
> I couldn't tell you and would not know how to check.  The symptom is a
> total lock of Open Office.  Can't do anything with it can't close it. 
> The rest of the computer sails along without a hitch.  I just have one
> desktop I can't do anything with.  I usually end up ending the session. 
> That does clear it out.
>
> Java problems?  Would not surprise me.  Java is the weak link in OO.
>
>
>   



From petertheplumber at att.net  Sun Feb 21 21:04:32 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:04:32 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Gutted APC Battery Backups Free to Good Home
Message-ID: <1266804272.17211.1104.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

Hello Everyone,
	I have one ancient Back-UPS 250 that appears to be in working order;
other than the battery, and one late model Back-UPS XS 900 that is not.
The 250 works fine as a surge arrestor, but since the battery will no
longer hold a charge it won't provide power by itself. The 900 was
hopelessy overloaded by yours truly and now randomly indicates overload
condition, despite having nothing plugged into it. It also no longer has
a battery in it, I took that and rejuvenated another ancient Back-UPS I
have. Both units are going to be recycled unless someone wants them for
parts.
-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber



From jbroughton at twmi.rr.com  Sun Feb 21 21:27:56 2010
From: jbroughton at twmi.rr.com (Jim Broughton)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:27:56 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Gutted APC Battery Backups Free to Good Home
In-Reply-To: <1266804272.17211.1104.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
References: <1266804272.17211.1104.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <4B81EBAC.4020200@twmi.rr.com>

Why not replace the battery in the 250. take it to
Batteries Plus and get a replacement. It will be
a lot less expensive than buying a new battery
from the manufacturer of the UPS unit.

Jim



Peter Bart wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
> 	I have one ancient Back-UPS 250 that appears to be in working order;
> other than the battery, and one late model Back-UPS XS 900 that is not.
> The 250 works fine as a surge arrestor, but since the battery will no
> longer hold a charge it won't provide power by itself. The 900 was
> hopelessy overloaded by yours truly and now randomly indicates overload
> condition, despite having nothing plugged into it. It also no longer has
> a battery in it, I took that and rejuvenated another ancient Back-UPS I
> have. Both units are going to be recycled unless someone wants them for
> parts.
>   



From tesral at wowway.com  Sun Feb 21 21:30:14 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:30:14 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Gutted APC Battery Backups Free to Good Home
In-Reply-To: <1266804272.17211.1104.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
References: <1266804272.17211.1104.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <4B81EC36.6080102@wowway.com>

Peter Bart wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
> 	I have one ancient Back-UPS 250 that appears to be in working order;
> other than the battery, and one late model Back-UPS XS 900 that is not.
> The 250 works fine as a surge arrestor, but since the battery will no
> longer hold a charge it won't provide power by itself. The 900 was
> hopelessy overloaded by yours truly and now randomly indicates overload
> condition, despite having nothing plugged into it. It also no longer has
> a battery in it, I took that and rejuvenated another ancient Back-UPS I
> have. Both units are going to be recycled unless someone wants them for
> parts.
>   


What is the wattage on the units?  I will buy batteries if they can be
changed.  I've had a UPS where they made it damn near impossible.  I
need a UPS of 600 watts or better.  Maestro has no backup.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? -Mohandas K. Gandhi  
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From petertheplumber at att.net  Sun Feb 21 22:05:12 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 22:05:12 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Gutted APC Battery Backups Free to Good Home
In-Reply-To: <4B81EC36.6080102@wowway.com>
References: <1266804272.17211.1104.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
	<4B81EC36.6080102@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <1266807912.17211.1111.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

On Sun, 2010-02-21 at 21:30 -0500, Garry Stahl wrote:
> Peter Bart wrote:
> > Hello Everyone,
> > 	I have one ancient Back-UPS 250 that appears to be in working order;
> > other than the battery, and one late model Back-UPS XS 900 that is not.
> > The 250 works fine as a surge arrestor, but since the battery will no
> > longer hold a charge it won't provide power by itself. The 900 was
> > hopelessy overloaded by yours truly and now randomly indicates overload
> > condition, despite having nothing plugged into it. It also no longer has
> > a battery in it, I took that and rejuvenated another ancient Back-UPS I
> > have. Both units are going to be recycled unless someone wants them for
> > parts.
> >   
> 
> 
> What is the wattage on the units?  I will buy batteries if they can be
> changed.  I've had a UPS where they made it damn near impossible.  I
> need a UPS of 600 watts or better.  Maestro has no backup.
> 

Please note the larger one has issues!!
<http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=AP250>
<http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=BX900>
-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber



From gib at juno.com  Mon Feb 22 09:03:27 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:03:27 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] Summary BTIP meeting today - Re: Invitation,
	today: Global Linux/FSW m	tg. You coming? Sun 21 12N-3P Pac ific
	time
Message-ID: <20100222.090327.18301.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>

 
Some ideas here for collaboration between groups.  
I think it would be fun to see what we can do to involve remote people.
VOIP, IRC and webcast.


---------- Original Message ----------
From: "giovanni_re" <john_re at fastmail.us>
To: "gib at juno.com" <gib at juno.com>
Cc: sean at linux.ucla.edu, jessicamah at jessicamah.com, pacneil at linuxgeek.net, nbs at sonic.net
Subject: Summary BTIP meeting today - Re: Invitation, today: Global Linux/FSW mtg. You coming? Sun 21 12N-3P Pac ific time
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 20:34:37 -0800

On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 00:19:03 GMT, "gib at juno.com" <gib at juno.com> said:
> 
> Sorry, I didn't see this until just now.  

no problem - I know I got it out on short notice. ;)  Everyone is invited to join in every meeting. :)  Because I'm short on time, though i often wish to get announcements out early, I'm often unable to.  So, you can put the future dates into your calendar, & you'll know when the upcoming meetings are. :)
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/schedule


BTW, Bill & Neil & I were on IRC today.  I didn't have time to get up to campus & use voip.  Bill & Neil gave the standard moan & groan i'm used to hearing about how they like IRC & not voip.  I gave them my standard reply: they're so last millennium. ;)

Neil (who teaches linux classes online, using voip, & has an asterisk server!) mentioned how he doesn't like being tied to the computer by a headset for 15 minutes.  I suggested a bluetooth headset can solve that. :)

Hopefully Bill & Neil will be voip ready for next meeting (& mee too! ;) :) )

> 
> The presentation when well at MUG.org. I also did the presentation at
> mdlug.org.

I'd love to hear more about that. :)  Maybe at next btip meeting, Tuesday march 2, 8 days from today.  I'd like to find out if mug or mdlug are interested in having voip meetings there locally.  It would be great if they would schedule meetings simultaneous with BTIP, then everyone could join in.  --  & how did it come up as an idea to give a talk about the BTIP global voice meetings???  What was the inspiration, & the goal/purpose for that talk?  To just learn something new, or maybe to try to do your own voice meetings??

Also, in the MUG list, iirc, there was something about wanting to arrange speakers for live talks.  If everyone meets at the same time, there is less work to do for everyone, in total, in arranging speakers.  Or, in finding talk videos.  I don't currently have time to reliably find & list talks 1 week ahead of each month.  So, working together, & distributing that task, will enable a more reliable feed of talks to all our members. :)
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/talk-videos

I'll email mdlug & mug about that (ii can make time ;) ).

(er, actually, there's a special Lawrence Lessig meeting this Thursday, 3-430pm Pacific. everyone is welcome to join in. :)  )

==
I hope you all can join in at the next meeting, Tues eve mar 2.

:)

____________________________________________________________
Nutrition
Improve your career health. Click now to study nutrition!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=3MThlpBW4wx96Gok82TCIwAAJz07QkQODMrtXujsdlflQzfUAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASQwAAAAA=

From gib at juno.com  Mon Feb 22 20:05:33 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 01:05:33 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] Penguicon Party Room for MDLUG.org MUG.org
Message-ID: <20100222.200533.28147.0@webmail09.vgs.untd.com>

 Penguicon Party Room for MDLUG.org MUG.org
Penguicon Party Room for MDLUG.org SEMCO.org

We've reserved a party room for Penguicon.org 2010 for the MDLUG.org and SEMCO.org groups.

____________________________________________________________
Small Business Tools
Click to find the latest solutions to enhance your small business.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=0YApllVVrAOVH_TZg0j_ywAAJz07QkQODMrtXujsdlflQzfUAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARMQAAAAA=


From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Tue Feb 23 23:24:24 2010
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 23:24:24 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] nVidia SATA BIOS RAID
Message-ID: <16673920.1266985465196.JavaMail.root@elwamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

I have a Dell desktop system that I put into service as a server.
It has 3 SATA 640GB drives.
2 of the drives are setup as RAID1 leveraging the nVidia BIOS.  As you can see below, the system recognizes the RAID volume for /boot (notice the strange device name it assigns), the other filesystems (not shown) are under LVM control or standard partitioning (e.g. /dev/sdc1).  Also, there is a sata_nv driver that is loaded.

mike at serv1:~> df -h /boot
Filesystem            Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/mapper/nvidia_feggjfad_part1
                       69M   20M   46M  30% /boot

mike at serv1:~> lsmod | grep sata
sata_nv                21588  4
libata                161216  1 sata_nv

My question is simply, how do I query the status of the RAID set from the OS?  Since it is not actually software raid, I can't query /proc/mdstat.  I've poked around /proc quite a bit, but can't seem to find anything that looks helpful.  The OS can definetly see all 3 drives.

serv1:/proc/scsi # cat /proc/scsi/scsi
Attached devices:
Host: scsi0 Channel: 00 Id: 00 Lun: 00
  Vendor: ATA      Model: WDC WD6401AALS-0 Rev: 01.0
  Type:   Direct-Access                    ANSI  SCSI revision: 05
Host: scsi1 Channel: 00 Id: 00 Lun: 00
  Vendor: ATA      Model: WDC WD6401AALS-0 Rev: 01.0
  Type:   Direct-Access                    ANSI  SCSI revision: 05
Host: scsi2 Channel: 00 Id: 00 Lun: 00
  Vendor: TSSTcorp Model: CDRWDVD TS-H493A Rev: D200
  Type:   CD-ROM                           ANSI  SCSI revision: 05
Host: scsi3 Channel: 00 Id: 00 Lun: 00
  Vendor: ATA      Model: WDC WD6401AALS-0 Rev: 01.0
  Type:   Direct-Access                    ANSI  SCSI revision: 05

So it's not masking the devices from the OS (like some hardware raid controlers might).  From the Google searches that I have done, the nVidia Bios RAID is what is commonly referred to as "fake RAID".  Not a true hardware RAID implementation.  The good news is the OS does recognize the RAID volume that I created from the BIOS, but it would be very helpful to have some sort of utility to query the status of the RAID.

Anybody use this driver (sata_nv) and/or have some suggestions?

-Mike


From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Wed Feb 24 08:50:45 2010
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 08:50:45 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] nVidia SATA BIOS RAID
In-Reply-To: <16673920.1266985465196.JavaMail.root@elwamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <16673920.1266985465196.JavaMail.root@elwamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46902210D4A69@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

I've not used the nVidia RAID controller myself, but with other RAID controllers (Dell PERC, HP cciss), there were utilities that you could build and run that queried the device directly to get statistics and status.  Perhaps nVidia has something similar.

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Michael ORourke
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 11:24 PM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: [mdlug] nVidia SATA BIOS RAID

I have a Dell desktop system that I put into service as a server.
It has 3 SATA 640GB drives.
2 of the drives are setup as RAID1 leveraging the nVidia BIOS.  As you can see below, the system recognizes the RAID volume for /boot (notice the strange device name it assigns), the other filesystems (not shown) are under LVM control or standard partitioning (e.g. /dev/sdc1).  Also, there is a sata_nv driver that is loaded.

mike at serv1:~> df -h /boot
Filesystem            Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/mapper/nvidia_feggjfad_part1
                       69M   20M   46M  30% /boot

mike at serv1:~> lsmod | grep sata
sata_nv                21588  4
libata                161216  1 sata_nv

My question is simply, how do I query the status of the RAID set from the OS?  Since it is not actually software raid, I can't query /proc/mdstat.  I've poked around /proc quite a bit, but can't seem to find anything that looks helpful.  The OS can definetly see all 3 drives.

serv1:/proc/scsi # cat /proc/scsi/scsi
Attached devices:
Host: scsi0 Channel: 00 Id: 00 Lun: 00
  Vendor: ATA      Model: WDC WD6401AALS-0 Rev: 01.0
  Type:   Direct-Access                    ANSI  SCSI revision: 05
Host: scsi1 Channel: 00 Id: 00 Lun: 00
  Vendor: ATA      Model: WDC WD6401AALS-0 Rev: 01.0
  Type:   Direct-Access                    ANSI  SCSI revision: 05
Host: scsi2 Channel: 00 Id: 00 Lun: 00
  Vendor: TSSTcorp Model: CDRWDVD TS-H493A Rev: D200
  Type:   CD-ROM                           ANSI  SCSI revision: 05
Host: scsi3 Channel: 00 Id: 00 Lun: 00
  Vendor: ATA      Model: WDC WD6401AALS-0 Rev: 01.0
  Type:   Direct-Access                    ANSI  SCSI revision: 05

So it's not masking the devices from the OS (like some hardware raid controlers might).  From the Google searches that I have done, the nVidia Bios RAID is what is commonly referred to as "fake RAID".  Not a true hardware RAID implementation.  The good news is the OS does recognize the RAID volume that I created from the BIOS, but it would be very helpful to have some sort of utility to query the status of the RAID.

Anybody use this driver (sata_nv) and/or have some suggestions?

-Mike
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From gib at juno.com  Wed Feb 24 09:13:17 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 14:13:17 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] Fw: Agile Meeting
Message-ID: <20100224.091317.16405.1@webmail15.vgs.untd.com>

 
Opps, misspelled the email address.

---------- Forwarded Message ----------
From: "gib at juno.com" <gib at juno.com>
To: mdlub at mdlug.org,  discuss at mug.org
Subject: Agile Meeting
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 14:12:05 GMT


 
Agile is a process based app roch to managing IT work that stresses flexible quick phases. A meeting is set for each month for a group in the area:
http://agileenthusiasts.ning.com/events/mae-february-meeting
____________________________________________________________
Weight Loss Program
Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=AzKI0EKibYGhAcjw09dfcgAAJz07QkQODMrtXujsdlflQzfUAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEUgAAAAA=

From gib at juno.com  Wed Feb 24 20:39:30 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 01:39:30 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] penguicon ribbons for MDLUG.org
Message-ID: <20100224.203930.17087.0@webmail05.vgs.untd.com>


Do you have the old information for the ribbons for MDLUG.org? Or do we need to provide a fresh copy?

____________________________________________________________
Love Spell
Click here to light up your life with a love spell!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=5hVU_D3uMgk9Rg6oIcV9_AAAJz07QkQODMrtXujsdlflQzfUAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARwAAAAA=


From rkannan at peoplepc.com  Wed Feb 24 21:43:16 2010
From: rkannan at peoplepc.com (R. Kannan)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:43:16 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: [mdlug] Problems with the flash plug in install files
Message-ID: <8372501.1267065797250.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Hello,

I tried installing the latest flash plugin from install files at adobe site (as youtube seems to require the latest flash plugin now). First I tried the rpm version. It updated the following file

/usr/lib/flash-plugin/libflashplayer.so

with a new version with the datestamp 1/26/2010. This file is the target of the link from firefox/plugins directory.I restarted the browser again. No cigar with youtube. 

Next I tried the tar.gz file. Unzipping the file produced the same file with the same size/datestamp as above. It did not create a directory as given in the instructions at the Adobe site. Still no luck with youtube which keeps directing me to the adobe site.

Any ideas?

Thanks


________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 21:52:37 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:52:37 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Problems with the flash plug in install files
In-Reply-To: <8372501.1267065797250.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <8372501.1267065797250.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <b02c40e91002241852y3c5429d0uc0c6ceb64940f0a1@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 9:43 PM, R. Kannan <rkannan at peoplepc.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I tried installing the latest flash plugin from install files at adobe site (as youtube seems to require the latest flash plugin now). First I tried the rpm version. It updated the following file
>
> /usr/lib/flash-plugin/libflashplayer.so
>
> with a new version with the datestamp 1/26/2010. This file is the target of the link from firefox/plugins directory.I restarted the browser again. No cigar with youtube.
>
> Next I tried the tar.gz file. Unzipping the file produced the same file with the same size/datestamp as above. It did not create a directory as given in the instructions at the Adobe site. Still no luck with youtube which keeps directing me to the adobe site.
>

Which distro?
See if it shows up in Firefox by going to address: about:plugins


From raymond.s.mclaughlin at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 21:48:19 2010
From: raymond.s.mclaughlin at gmail.com (Raymond S McLaughlin)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:48:19 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Problems with the flash plug in install files
In-Reply-To: <8372501.1267065797250.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <8372501.1267065797250.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4B85E4F3.1080708@gmail.com>

R. Kannan wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I tried installing the latest flash plugin from install files at adobe site (as youtube seems to require the latest flash plugin now). First I tried the rpm version. It updated the following file
> 
> /usr/lib/flash-plugin/libflashplayer.so
> 
> with a new version with the datestamp 1/26/2010. This file is the target of the link from firefox/plugins directory.I restarted the browser again. No cigar with youtube. 
> 
> Next I tried the tar.gz file. Unzipping the file produced the same file with the same size/datestamp as above. It did not create a directory as given in the instructions at the Adobe site. Still no luck with youtube which keeps directing me to the adobe site.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Thanks


Look at the version number for the flash plugin shown at the URL:
about:plugins

I recall finding more than one version on a machine once, and the wrong
one was being run. I don't recall the details, but if you search your
system you might find more than one libflashplayer.so file.

I hope this helps
Raymond McLaughlin


From rkannan at peoplepc.com  Wed Feb 24 22:14:42 2010
From: rkannan at peoplepc.com (R. Kannan)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 22:14:42 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: [mdlug] Problems with the flash plug in install files
Message-ID: <12774738.1267067682819.JavaMail.root@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net>



The distro on the machine is SuSE.

First I checked the version of the plugin. The plugin version for the flash player shows up in 'about:plugins' as '10.0 r15' whereas the Adobe site where I downloaded shows 10.0.45.2 as the latest version that can be downloaded. Not sure why the instructions are so wrong.

Then I found here were two different libflashplayer.so files on the machine. The link

/usr/lib/firefox/plugins/libflashplayer.so is a link that points to /usr/lib/flash-plugin/libflashplayer.so which was updated when I installed.

There is also /usr/lib/firefox/plugins/libflashplayer.so which was older. I updated that file and now about:plugins shows the version as '10.0 r45' but youtube still complains :-(

Thanks for your help.



-----Original Message-----
>From: Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com>
>Sent: Feb 24, 2010 9:52 PM
>To: "R. Kannan" <rkannan at peoplepc.com>, MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>Subject: Re: [mdlug] Problems with the flash plug in install files
>
>On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 9:43 PM, R. Kannan <rkannan at peoplepc.com> wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I tried installing the latest flash plugin from install files at adobe site (as youtube seems to require the latest flash plugin now). First I tried the rpm version. It updated the following file
>>
>> /usr/lib/flash-plugin/libflashplayer.so
>>
>> with a new version with the datestamp 1/26/2010. This file is the target of the link from firefox/plugins directory.I restarted the browser again. No cigar with youtube.
>>
>> Next I tried the tar.gz file. Unzipping the file produced the same file with the same size/datestamp as above. It did not create a directory as given in the instructions at the Adobe site. Still no luck with youtube which keeps directing me to the adobe site.
>>
>
>Which distro?
>See if it shows up in Firefox by going to address: about:plugins


________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com


From tesral at wowway.com  Wed Feb 24 22:28:28 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 22:28:28 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Problems with the flash plug in install files
In-Reply-To: <4B85E4F3.1080708@gmail.com>
References: <8372501.1267065797250.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<4B85E4F3.1080708@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B85EE5C.1010001@wowway.com>

Raymond S McLaughlin wrote:
> Look at the version number for the flash plugin shown at the URL:
> about:plugins
>
> I recall finding more than one version on a machine once, and the wrong
> one was being run. I don't recall the details, but if you search your
> system you might find more than one libflashplayer.so file.
>
>   
It was mine if I recall.  The solution was to delete both ,and run the
install on the latest version.


-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? -Mohandas K. Gandhi  
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From set at pobox.com  Thu Feb 25 02:59:36 2010
From: set at pobox.com (Paul)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 02:59:36 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Problems with the flash plug in install files
In-Reply-To: <12774738.1267067682819.JavaMail.root@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <12774738.1267067682819.JavaMail.root@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20100225075935.GN3151@squish.home.loc>

"R. Kannan" <rkannan at peoplepc.com>, on Wed Feb 24, 2010 [10:14:42 PM] said:
> 
> There is also /usr/lib/firefox/plugins/libflashplayer.so which was older. I updated that file and now about:plugins shows the version as '10.0 r45' but youtube still complains :-(
> 
> Thanks for your help.
> 

	Hi;

	Hmm... my flash version reports as '10.0 r42' and the half
dozen random clips on youtube.com I clicked on worked fine. (for
whatever values of 'fine' flash ever works...)
	Do you have some sort of flash or cookie hate enabled?
Can you give a specific link to some flash content that does not
work?

Paul
set at pobox.com


From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Thu Feb 25 07:37:21 2010
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:37:21 -0600 (GMT-06:00)
Subject: [mdlug] nVidia SATA BIOS RAID
Message-ID: <25346150.1267101441936.JavaMail.root@mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

I was thinking the same thing, but so far I haven't found anything yet.  I probably should have done a little more research before using the nVidia drivers.


-----Original Message-----
>From: "Wojtak, Greg" <GregWojtak at quickenloans.com>
>Sent: Feb 24, 2010 7:50 AM
>To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>Subject: Re: [mdlug] nVidia SATA BIOS RAID
>
>I've not used the nVidia RAID controller myself, but with other RAID controllers (Dell PERC, HP cciss), there were utilities that you could build and run that queried the device directly to get statistics and status.  Perhaps nVidia has something similar.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Michael ORourke
>Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 11:24 PM
>To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
>Subject: [mdlug] nVidia SATA BIOS RAID
>
>I have a Dell desktop system that I put into service as a server.
>It has 3 SATA 640GB drives.
>2 of the drives are setup as RAID1 leveraging the nVidia BIOS.  As you can see below, the system recognizes the RAID volume for /boot (notice the strange device name it assigns), the other filesystems (not shown) are under LVM control or standard partitioning (e.g. /dev/sdc1).  Also, there is a sata_nv driver that is loaded.
>
>mike at serv1:~> df -h /boot
>Filesystem            Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
>/dev/mapper/nvidia_feggjfad_part1
>                       69M   20M   46M  30% /boot
>
>mike at serv1:~> lsmod | grep sata
>sata_nv                21588  4
>libata                161216  1 sata_nv
>
>My question is simply, how do I query the status of the RAID set from the OS?  Since it is not actually software raid, I can't query /proc/mdstat.  I've poked around /proc quite a bit, but can't seem to find anything that looks helpful.  The OS can definetly see all 3 drives.
>
>serv1:/proc/scsi # cat /proc/scsi/scsi
>Attached devices:
>Host: scsi0 Channel: 00 Id: 00 Lun: 00
>  Vendor: ATA      Model: WDC WD6401AALS-0 Rev: 01.0
>  Type:   Direct-Access                    ANSI  SCSI revision: 05
>Host: scsi1 Channel: 00 Id: 00 Lun: 00
>  Vendor: ATA      Model: WDC WD6401AALS-0 Rev: 01.0
>  Type:   Direct-Access                    ANSI  SCSI revision: 05
>Host: scsi2 Channel: 00 Id: 00 Lun: 00
>  Vendor: TSSTcorp Model: CDRWDVD TS-H493A Rev: D200
>  Type:   CD-ROM                           ANSI  SCSI revision: 05
>Host: scsi3 Channel: 00 Id: 00 Lun: 00
>  Vendor: ATA      Model: WDC WD6401AALS-0 Rev: 01.0
>  Type:   Direct-Access                    ANSI  SCSI revision: 05
>
>So it's not masking the devices from the OS (like some hardware raid controlers might).  From the Google searches that I have done, the nVidia Bios RAID is what is commonly referred to as "fake RAID".  Not a true hardware RAID implementation.  The good news is the OS does recognize the RAID volume that I created from the BIOS, but it would be very helpful to have some sort of utility to query the status of the RAID.
>
>Anybody use this driver (sata_nv) and/or have some suggestions?
>
>-Mike
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From rkannan at peoplepc.com  Thu Feb 25 08:37:56 2010
From: rkannan at peoplepc.com (R. Kannan)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:37:56 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: [mdlug] Problems with the flash plug in install files
Message-ID: <19640590.1267105076212.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net>


I will try it again and report back on any non-working youtube clips this evening when I get back home.

Thanks

-----Original Message-----
>From: Paul <set at pobox.com>
>Sent: Feb 25, 2010 2:59 AM
>To: mdlug at mdlug.org
>Subject: Re: [mdlug] Problems with the flash plug in install files
>
>"R. Kannan" <rkannan at peoplepc.com>, on Wed Feb 24, 2010 [10:14:42 PM] said:
>> 
>> There is also /usr/lib/firefox/plugins/libflashplayer.so which was older. I updated that file and now about:plugins shows the version as '10.0 r45' but youtube still complains :-(
>> 
>> Thanks for your help.
>> 
>
>	Hi;
>
>	Hmm... my flash version reports as '10.0 r42' and the half
>dozen random clips on youtube.com I clicked on worked fine. (for
>whatever values of 'fine' flash ever works...)
>	Do you have some sort of flash or cookie hate enabled?
>Can you give a specific link to some flash content that does not
>work?
>
>Paul
>set at pobox.com
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com


From gib at juno.com  Thu Feb 25 10:28:35 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:28:35 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  Problems with the flash plug in install files
Message-ID: <20100225.102835.29723.0@webmail01.vgs.untd.com>

 
Please note, I noticed a problem with you tube last night that had to do with a file not found message that was resolved by a reload.  So, I'd suggest you some problems are not due to the client.

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "R. Kannan" <rkannan at peoplepc.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>, mdlug at mdlug.org
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Problems with the flash plug in install files
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:37:56 -0500 (GMT-05:00)



I will try it again and report back on any non-working youtube clips this evening when I get back home.

Thanks

-----Original Message-----
>From: Paul <set at pobox.com>
>Sent: Feb 25, 2010 2:59 AM
>To: mdlug at mdlug.org
>Subject: Re: [mdlug] Problems with the flash plug in install files
>
>"R. Kannan" <rkannan at peoplepc.com>, on Wed Feb 24, 2010 [10:14:42 PM] said:
>> 
>> There is also /usr/lib/firefox/plugins/libflashplayer.so which was older. I updated that file and now about:plugins shows the version as '10.0 r45' but youtube still complains :-(
>> 
>> Thanks for your help.
>> 
>
> Hi;
>
> Hmm... my flash version reports as '10.0 r42' and the half
>dozen random clips on youtube.com I clicked on worked fine. (for
>whatever values of 'fine' flash ever works...)
> Do you have some sort of flash or cookie hate enabled?
>Can you give a specific link to some flash content that does not
>work?
>
>Paul
>set at pobox.com
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

____________________________________________________________
Stock Options
Click to learn about options trading and get the latest information.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=TPAwZNBMYpYrCEwGG2BN0QAAJz07QkQODMrtXujsdlflQzfUAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQlgAAAAA=

From rkannan at peoplepc.com  Thu Feb 25 18:53:54 2010
From: rkannan at peoplepc.com (R. Kannan)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:53:54 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: [mdlug] Problems with the flash plug in install files
Message-ID: <8442035.1267142034560.JavaMail.root@mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

I am still having rpoblems with this youtube clip for example,

http://www.youtube.com/watch#playnext=1&playnext_from=TL&videos=_v67h-swVnE&v=NU0KrXeIHl8

BTW, Not sure if it is because of my browser Firefox 3.5.

Thanks
-----Original Message-----
>From: "R. Kannan" <rkannan at peoplepc.com>
>Sent: Feb 25, 2010 8:37 AM
>To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>, mdlug at mdlug.org
>Subject: Re: [mdlug] Problems with the flash plug in install files
>
>
>I will try it again and report back on any non-working youtube clips this evening when I get back home.
>
>Thanks
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Paul <set at pobox.com>
>>Sent: Feb 25, 2010 2:59 AM
>>To: mdlug at mdlug.org
>>Subject: Re: [mdlug] Problems with the flash plug in install files
>>
>>"R. Kannan" <rkannan at peoplepc.com>, on Wed Feb 24, 2010 [10:14:42 PM] said:
>>> 
>>> There is also /usr/lib/firefox/plugins/libflashplayer.so which was older. I updated that file and now about:plugins shows the version as '10.0 r45' but youtube still complains :-(
>>> 
>>> Thanks for your help.
>>> 
>>
>>	Hi;
>>
>>	Hmm... my flash version reports as '10.0 r42' and the half
>>dozen random clips on youtube.com I clicked on worked fine. (for
>>whatever values of 'fine' flash ever works...)
>>	Do you have some sort of flash or cookie hate enabled?
>>Can you give a specific link to some flash content that does not
>>work?
>>
>>Paul
>>set at pobox.com
>>_______________________________________________
>>mdlug mailing list
>>mdlug at mdlug.org
>>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>
>________________________________________
>PeoplePC Online
>A better way to Internet
>http://www.peoplepc.com
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com


From gib at juno.com  Thu Feb 25 20:48:54 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 01:48:54 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] Problems with the flash plug in install files
Message-ID: <20100225.204854.28688.0@webmail01.vgs.untd.com>


Works fine for me.

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "R. Kannan" <rkannan at peoplepc.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Problems with the flash plug in install files
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:53:54 -0500 (GMT-05:00)

I am still having rpoblems with this youtube clip for example,

http://www.youtube.com/watch#playnext=1&playnext_from=TL&videos=_v67h-swVnE&v=NU0KrXeIHl8

BTW, Not sure if it is because of my browser Firefox 3.5.

Thanks
-----Original Message-----
>From: "R. Kannan" <rkannan at peoplepc.com>
>Sent: Feb 25, 2010 8:37 AM
>To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>, mdlug at mdlug.org
>Subject: Re: [mdlug] Problems with the flash plug in install files
>
>
>I will try it again and report back on any non-working youtube clips this evening when I get back home.
>
>Thanks
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Paul <set at pobox.com>
>>Sent: Feb 25, 2010 2:59 AM
>>To: mdlug at mdlug.org
>>Subject: Re: [mdlug] Problems with the flash plug in install files
>>
>>"R. Kannan" <rkannan at peoplepc.com>, on Wed Feb 24, 2010 [10:14:42 PM] said:
>>> 
>>> There is also /usr/lib/firefox/plugins/libflashplayer.so which was older. I updated that file and now about:plugins shows the version as '10.0 r45' but youtube still complains :-(
>>> 
>>> Thanks for your help.
>>> 
>>
>>	Hi;
>>
>>	Hmm... my flash version reports as '10.0 r42' and the half
>>dozen random clips on youtube.com I clicked on worked fine. (for
>>whatever values of 'fine' flash ever works...)
>>	Do you have some sort of flash or cookie hate enabled?
>>Can you give a specific link to some flash content that does not
>>work?
>>
>>Paul
>>set at pobox.com
>>_______________________________________________
>>mdlug mailing list
>>mdlug at mdlug.org
>>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>
>________________________________________
>PeoplePC Online
>A better way to Internet
>http://www.peoplepc.com
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



____________________________________________________________
Get Free Email with Video Mail & Video Chat!
http://www.juno.com/freeemail?refcd=JUTAGOUT1FREM0210


From micorral at comcast.net  Thu Feb 25 22:28:51 2010
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 22:28:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Problems with the flash plug in install files
In-Reply-To: <20100225.204854.28688.0@webmail01.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20100225.204854.28688.0@webmail01.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.1002252223350.2467@banana.sluggo.net>

2010-02-25, Monsieur gib at juno.com a ecrit:
>
> Works fine for me.

Works here too, in Firefox 3.5.1 under Fedora. I would say it works
fine, but I noticed a distinct lack of dancing bears in the video.

Michael


> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: "R. Kannan" <rkannan at peoplepc.com>
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Problems with the flash plug in install files
> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:53:54 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
>
> I am still having rpoblems with this youtube clip for example,
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch#playnext=1&playnext_from=TL&videos=_v67h-swVnE&v=NU0KrXeIHl8


From set at pobox.com  Fri Feb 26 00:22:53 2010
From: set at pobox.com (Paul)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 00:22:53 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Problems with the flash plug in install files
In-Reply-To: <8442035.1267142034560.JavaMail.root@mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <8442035.1267142034560.JavaMail.root@mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20100226052252.GO3151@squish.home.loc>

"R. Kannan" <rkannan at peoplepc.com>, on Thu Feb 25, 2010 [06:53:54 PM] said:
> I am still having rpoblems with this youtube clip for example,
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch#playnext=1&playnext_from=TL&videos=_v67h-swVnE&v=NU0KrXeIHl8
> 
> BTW, Not sure if it is because of my browser Firefox 3.5.
> 
> Thanks
	
	Hi;

	Well, works with seamonkey, arora, and firefox (3.5.6) here.

	Maybe scroll down in about:plugins and look at all your
plugins to make sure something else isnt also trying to handle
flash and 'winning'?

Paul
set at pobox.com


From carl at carltm.com  Fri Feb 26 09:06:17 2010
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:06:17 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Looking for GIMP expert to do a presentation
In-Reply-To: <201001202048.12066.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
References: <201001202048.12066.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <d590ca9cac33e9de23952e862c40321e.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

Stan Green wrote:
> There is an Open Source (i.e. more than just Linux) group starting up at
> Walsh
> College that is looking for people to present.

Stan, is this group open to the public?  Do they have
a website with more info?

c




From petertheplumber at att.net  Fri Feb 26 09:20:41 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:20:41 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Looking for GIMP expert to do a presentation
In-Reply-To: <d590ca9cac33e9de23952e862c40321e.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
References: <201001202048.12066.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
	<d590ca9cac33e9de23952e862c40321e.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <20100226092041.496e0c45@Nokia-N800-43-7>

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:06:17 -0500
"Carl T. Miller" <carl at carltm.com> wrote:

> Stan Green wrote:
> > There is an Open Source (i.e. more than just Linux) group starting
> > up at Walsh
> > College that is looking for people to present.
> 
> Stan, is this group open to the public?  Do they have
> a website with more info?

    I would like to know as well. Specifically I'd like to learn Gimp
    too.
-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber
Sent from a mobile Internet Tablet


From gib at juno.com  Fri Feb 26 13:52:38 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:52:38 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  OT: Looking for GIMP expert to do a presentation
Message-ID: <20100226.135238.20628.0@webmail23.vgs.untd.com>

 
I did a quick walk through of gimp in the mug.org meeting perhaps over a year ago.  Complicated software.  Coll stuff. 

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Peter Bart <petertheplumber at att.net>
To: mdlug at mdlug.org
Subject: Re: [mdlug] OT: Looking for GIMP expert to do a presentation
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:20:41 -0500

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:06:17 -0500
"Carl T. Miller" <carl at carltm.com> wrote:

> Stan Green wrote:
> > There is an Open Source (i.e. more than just Linux) group starting
> > up at Walsh
> > College that is looking for people to present.
> 
> Stan, is this group open to the public?  Do they have
> a website with more info?

   I would like to know as well. Specifically I'd like to learn Gimp
   too.
-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber
Sent from a mobile Internet Tablet
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

____________________________________________________________
Stock Options
Click to learn about options trading and get the latest information.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=2v60E2JCcuDj-DFKsfCbPgAAJz07QkQODMrtXujsdlflQzfUAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQlgAAAAA=

From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 14:08:12 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:08:12 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Looking for GIMP expert to do a presentation
In-Reply-To: <20100226.135238.20628.0@webmail23.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20100226.135238.20628.0@webmail23.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <4B881C1C.5040503@gmail.com>

gib at juno.com wrote:
>  
> I did a quick walk through of gimp

groan....


From trevor.jagoda at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 14:19:54 2010
From: trevor.jagoda at gmail.com (Trevor Jagoda)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:19:54 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Looking for GIMP expert to do a presentation
In-Reply-To: <4B881C1C.5040503@gmail.com>
References: <20100226.135238.20628.0@webmail23.vgs.untd.com>
	<4B881C1C.5040503@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5a2d44a91002261119x118443ebwacb725016c32db2f@mail.gmail.com>

A detailed GIMP presentation at PenguiCon would be pretty cool.



On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:

> gib at juno.com wrote:
> >
> > I did a quick walk through of gimp
>
> groan....
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From rstaff at sprynet.com  Mon Feb  1 18:19:28 2010
From: rstaff at sprynet.com (Richard Staff)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 18:19:28 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20100129045905.02e56450@pop.gmail.com>
References: <21403502.1264693631506.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>	<1264695035.3270.12.camel@linux-m3mt>	<20100128185349.GA56543@maniac.deathstar.org>	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1001282035450.2377@banana.sluggo.net>
	<6.2.3.4.0.20100129045905.02e56450@pop.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B676180.8040208@sprynet.com>

Great subject/topic!!!
Many, many years ago I was using an accounting package for the Atari 800.
It was written in Atari Basic.
I was able to code modify it so it would do some things I wanted.
Then I had something for the Atari ST.
Then there was Quicken for Windows.
Then there was GnuCash for Linux.
I am now using KMyMoney.  It is a personal accounting program that is 
KDE based.
I like using KMyMoney for my personal financial income and expense tracking.
I do NOT print checks.  I do NOT run a business with it.  I do NOT 
create charts with it.
KMyMoney has a Quicken like flavor/behavior to it, but not Quicken's power.
I do print a report of account balances and a monthly expenses/income 
report.
I would think that if you want a professional quality accounting system, 
then you pay for it.
Dumb Question: Are there not Java based professional accounting systems 
available?
Dumb Thought:  A Java based application is likely to be multi-platform, 
Mac, Win, Linux.
Peace out, Rick
P.S.  I was using TurboTax for taxes, but switched to H&R Block TaxCut 
the year TurboTax dropped Win 98.
###
Drew wrote:
> I rather had the impression that spreadsheets were originally 
> designed for financial related work,
> like accounting. Never mind the fact that I have also found them 
> useful for engineering work. In
> Open Office I count roughly 60 functions in the Financial category. 
> If there's accounting work to
> do, Open Office should be suitable. (Printing checks is another 
> matter, but I'm sure that can be
> programmed.)
>
> At 08:48 PM 1/28/10, Michael Corral wrote:
>
>   
>> So you've gone from paying a person $150 to do what you could do yourself,
>> to paying $50 for software to do what you could do yourself.
>>
>> I've got that beat. I also use the full 1040 form, but I pay $0 and do
>> it all - get this! - *by hand*, with no software. Crazy, ain't it? :)
>>     
>
> That's the way I have done it, except one year that I used Online 
> TurboTimmy, er, Tax (sorry,
> too much Tickerforum) in the hope of getting a check from the State 
> sooner, which failed miserably
> due at least in part to there being no provision for providing 
> supporting documents with the online
> filing. I never saw what it was about a 1040, even with Schedule A 
> and B, that required "professional"
> help, though maybe it would be different if I were running a 
> business? It's all addition and subtraction
> with some multiplication after all, which even if they stopped 
> teaching it in elementary school,
> calculators can now be bought for one dollar. (Three orders of 
> magnitude cheaper than the first one
> I laid eyes on, in nominal dollars!)
>
> I never took "accounting" - sounded boring and uninteresting, so 
> maybe there's something esoteric
> about it that I missed. Would it really be that difficult for someone 
> used to, say, calculus and
> geometry?
>
> And I also fix my own car whenever possible. It has not been easy for 
> me during my life to convince
> people to hand money over to me, so I'm generally loathe to hand it 
> to other people unnecessarily.
>
>
> ----
>
> - Drew.
>   



From rmdion at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 22:59:18 2010
From: rmdion at gmail.com (Bob Dion)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 21:59:18 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20100129045905.02e56450@pop.gmail.com>
References: <21403502.1264693631506.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>	<1264695035.3270.12.camel@linux-m3mt>	<20100128185349.GA56543@maniac.deathstar.org>	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1001282035450.2377@banana.sluggo.net>
	<6.2.3.4.0.20100129045905.02e56450@pop.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B67A316.3090908@gmail.com>

There's more to filling out a 1040 then adding and subtracting. It's 
understanding tax law. and what if any credits and deductions you are 
entitled to.

Did you file a schedule M?

how about a child tax credit or earned income credit.

I'm currently working for Jackson Hewitt. people come into the office 
making any where from $10,000 and $30,000 and leave with a $3,000 to 
$7,000 check. It's worth it to these people to pay us $200 to prepare 
their return.

Bob



Drew wrote:
> I rather had the impression that spreadsheets were originally 
> designed for financial related work,
> like accounting. Never mind the fact that I have also found them 
> useful for engineering work. In
> Open Office I count roughly 60 functions in the Financial category. 
> If there's accounting work to
> do, Open Office should be suitable. (Printing checks is another 
> matter, but I'm sure that can be
> programmed.)
> 
> At 08:48 PM 1/28/10, Michael Corral wrote:
> 
>> So you've gone from paying a person $150 to do what you could do yourself,
>> to paying $50 for software to do what you could do yourself.
>>
>> I've got that beat. I also use the full 1040 form, but I pay $0 and do
>> it all - get this! - *by hand*, with no software. Crazy, ain't it? :)
> 
> That's the way I have done it, except one year that I used Online 
> TurboTimmy, er, Tax (sorry,
> too much Tickerforum) in the hope of getting a check from the State 
> sooner, which failed miserably
> due at least in part to there being no provision for providing 
> supporting documents with the online
> filing. I never saw what it was about a 1040, even with Schedule A 
> and B, that required "professional"
> help, though maybe it would be different if I were running a 
> business? It's all addition and subtraction
> with some multiplication after all, which even if they stopped 
> teaching it in elementary school,
> calculators can now be bought for one dollar. (Three orders of 
> magnitude cheaper than the first one
> I laid eyes on, in nominal dollars!)
> 
> I never took "accounting" - sounded boring and uninteresting, so 
> maybe there's something esoteric
> about it that I missed. Would it really be that difficult for someone 
> used to, say, calculus and
> geometry?
> 
> And I also fix my own car whenever possible. It has not been easy for 
> me during my life to convince
> people to hand money over to me, so I'm generally loathe to hand it 
> to other people unnecessarily.
> 
> 
> ----
> 
> - Drew.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 


From petertheplumber at att.net  Mon Feb  1 23:18:24 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 23:18:24 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <4B67A316.3090908@gmail.com>
References: <21403502.1264693631506.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<1264695035.3270.12.camel@linux-m3mt>
	<20100128185349.GA56543@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1001282035450.2377@banana.sluggo.net>
	<6.2.3.4.0.20100129045905.02e56450@pop.gmail.com>
	<4B67A316.3090908@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1265084304.17211.109.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

On Mon, 2010-02-01 at 21:59 -0600, Bob Dion wrote:
> There's more to filling out a 1040 then adding and subtracting. It's 
> understanding tax law. and what if any credits and deductions you are 
> entitled to.

	And that's why I have someone do mine. For the same reason I have
someone fix my car, my appliances, etc.

> Did you file a schedule M?
> 
> how about a child tax credit or earned income credit.
> 
> I'm currently working for Jackson Hewitt. people come into the office 
> making any where from $10,000 and $30,000 and leave with a $3,000 to 
> $7,000 check. It's worth it to these people to pay us $200 to prepare 
> their return.

	It's not that I can't, matter of fact I can do most of the things I
need done. I just can't do them as well or notice related things that
should be taken care of.
-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber



From robert.citek at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 23:33:45 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 23:33:45 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <1265084304.17211.109.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
References: <21403502.1264693631506.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<1264695035.3270.12.camel@linux-m3mt>
	<20100128185349.GA56543@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1001282035450.2377@banana.sluggo.net>
	<6.2.3.4.0.20100129045905.02e56450@pop.gmail.com>
	<4B67A316.3090908@gmail.com>
	<1265084304.17211.109.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <4145b6791002012033xc17a78flb9f6fab3ab0fb65c@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 11:18 PM, Peter Bart <petertheplumber at att.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 2010-02-01 at 21:59 -0600, Bob Dion wrote:
>> There's more to filling out a 1040 then adding and subtracting. It's
>> understanding tax law. and what if any credits and deductions you are
>> entitled to.
>
> And that's why I have someone do mine. For the same reason I have
> someone fix my car, my appliances, etc.

I lost track of where the topic changed, but my original question was
about accounting software not tax software.  One would use the
accounting software to help manage one's finances.  At the end of the
year, that software should also present the data to you in an
organized way for doing taxes, either for doing them yourself or for
having done by a tax professional.

To repost the last incarnation of the question: if a non-techie friend
was starting a small business and asked me what kind of accounting
software they should use under Linux, what should I recommend?

(yes, it's different from my original question, but closer to what I
meant to ask.)

Regards,
- Robert


From lugnuts at doehler.us  Tue Feb  2 00:44:13 2010
From: lugnuts at doehler.us (Joe Doehler)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 00:44:13 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <1264691697.3270.1.camel@linux-m3mt>
References: <4145b6791001262031s73568a47l88faa8399e1cd7b3@mail.gmail.com>	<201001272121.25472.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>	<c5df8cf61001271947k5a35cccboa8ba8ba73d155968@mail.gmail.com>
	<1264691697.3270.1.camel@linux-m3mt>
Message-ID: <4B67BBAD.3030404@doehler.us>

Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> On Wed, 2010-01-27 at 22:47 -0500, David Lee Lambert wrote:
>> I have almost 3 years of records entered with GNUCash, 
> 
> +1.  I've been using GNUCash since Ximian had their red-carpet service
> (how long is that? Yikes.) It is a great application.

I tried GNUCash for a little while a few years ago, but it did not work 
nearly as well for me as Quicken-for-Windows (QFW). In QFW, I enter the 
info for checks to go out (payee, amount, date), and it's done. QFW 
contacts the banks, who then does an EFT, or mails a printed check at 
their expense at the right time. On my end, no paper check to write or 
print, no stamp to buy. In this workflow, the check info is typed in 
once, and only once. No web site to log on to to either send money out, 
transfer, or download and import cleared transactions. Deposits, credit 
card transactions details and check numbers show up without me having to 
do anything. At reconciliation time, I just check if the bottom lines 
between the mailed statements and QFW match, and it's done.

The price to pay is a regular upgrade, as the protocols for contacting 
banks and credit card companies keep changing. It's worth it to me, in 
stamp savings alone. Perhaps things have changed, but I do not know of 
any open source software that can do all of this. I wish there were. If 
there is, please let us know.

Joe.



From carl at carltm.com  Tue Feb  2 20:29:35 2010
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 20:29:35 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] wow...
Message-ID: <dcaa158c0fa6fdce405e28fbce804ad0.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

My head is spinning.  I got an old Pentium III workstation
that barely ran Windows XP and thought I'd try installing
some cloud software on it just to see what it looks like.

I've already installed the cloud management software, and
as part of the configuration, they say to create and run
a xen virtual machine to verify that xen is properly installed.

That's where I'm at.  I'm installing the latest version of
CentOS on a headless VM that is installed on a headless
workstation with less than a gig of ram.  And it's working.
It simply amazes me how well Linux and xen can manage
resources!

c




From Stan at mcomputersolutions.com  Tue Feb  2 21:24:56 2010
From: Stan at mcomputersolutions.com (Stan Green)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 21:24:56 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791002012033xc17a78flb9f6fab3ab0fb65c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <21403502.1264693631506.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<1265084304.17211.109.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
	<4145b6791002012033xc17a78flb9f6fab3ab0fb65c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201002022124.56590.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>

OK since you ask, SAP on Linux does a great job for accounting. 

However is like asking what is the best car. (Chevy Camaro, of course.) Everyone 
has different requirements and taste. The first thing your friend needs to do 
is define what he wants an accounting package to do. Then take that data and 
look for a package to solve the problem. Picking a software package without a 
good understanding of the problem is like buying a car because someone else 
likes their's! Maybe their requirements are simple and something like GNUCash 
would work, or maybe the requirements are complex, like inventory and 
depreciation, so they need something more powerfull. You will not know until 
you get the requirements.

On a side note, if they are starting a business and know nothing about 
accounting, this is a big red flag. There is a reason people have to go to 
college to become an accountant. As a business owner, I would recommend they 
find a good accounting firm to guide them through the first few years. This 
would allow them to focus on the business rather on making sure they are 
following Generally Accepted Accounting Procedures (GAAP). Once they have a 
good understanding of the type of accounting they need then they can start 
looking to take on the work themselves. 


On Monday 01 February 2010 11:33:45 pm Robert Citek wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 11:18 PM, Peter Bart <petertheplumber at att.net> wrote:
> > On Mon, 2010-02-01 at 21:59 -0600, Bob Dion wrote:
> >> There's more to filling out a 1040 then adding and subtracting. It's
> >> understanding tax law. and what if any credits and deductions you are
> >> entitled to.
> >
> > And that's why I have someone do mine. For the same reason I have
> > someone fix my car, my appliances, etc.
>
> I lost track of where the topic changed, but my original question was
> about accounting software not tax software.  One would use the
> accounting software to help manage one's finances.  At the end of the
> year, that software should also present the data to you in an
> organized way for doing taxes, either for doing them yourself or for
> having done by a tax professional.
>
> To repost the last incarnation of the question: if a non-techie friend
> was starting a small business and asked me what kind of accounting
> software they should use under Linux, what should I recommend?
>
> (yes, it's different from my original question, but closer to what I
> meant to ask.)
>
> Regards,
> - Robert
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




From robert.citek at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 00:09:51 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 00:09:51 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] wow...
In-Reply-To: <dcaa158c0fa6fdce405e28fbce804ad0.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
References: <dcaa158c0fa6fdce405e28fbce804ad0.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <4145b6791002022109k4b30769dmdb80675262835cf@mail.gmail.com>

Are you keeping a blog on how you are doing this?  It would be a great read.

Regards,
- Robert

On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 8:29 PM, Carl T. Miller <carl at carltm.com> wrote:
> My head is spinning. ?I got an old Pentium III workstation
> that barely ran Windows XP and thought I'd try installing
> some cloud software on it just to see what it looks like.
>
> I've already installed the cloud management software, and
> as part of the configuration, they say to create and run
> a xen virtual machine to verify that xen is properly installed.
>
> That's where I'm at. ?I'm installing the latest version of
> CentOS on a headless VM that is installed on a headless
> workstation with less than a gig of ram. ?And it's working.
> It simply amazes me how well Linux and xen can manage
> resources!
>
> c


From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Wed Feb  3 08:48:26 2010
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 08:48:26 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] wow...
In-Reply-To: <dcaa158c0fa6fdce405e28fbce804ad0.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
References: <dcaa158c0fa6fdce405e28fbce804ad0.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE469021957C536@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

It's not just Xen, either - we have a messaging queue product running on several Linux servers here.  I was surprised to find out that the messaging software - a java app, keep in mind - was running on a host (Virtual Machine) with 256 MB RAM allocated to it!

A CentOS server running a java-based enterprise messaging queue processing production traffic - all on 256 MB RAM. 

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Carl T. Miller
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 8:30 PM
To: MDLUG List
Subject: [mdlug] wow...

My head is spinning.  I got an old Pentium III workstation
that barely ran Windows XP and thought I'd try installing
some cloud software on it just to see what it looks like.

I've already installed the cloud management software, and
as part of the configuration, they say to create and run
a xen virtual machine to verify that xen is properly installed.

That's where I'm at.  I'm installing the latest version of
CentOS on a headless VM that is installed on a headless
workstation with less than a gig of ram.  And it's working.
It simply amazes me how well Linux and xen can manage
resources!

c


_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From davidl at lmert.com  Wed Feb  3 10:29:44 2010
From: davidl at lmert.com (David Lee Lambert)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 10:29:44 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791002012033xc17a78flb9f6fab3ab0fb65c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <21403502.1264693631506.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<1264695035.3270.12.camel@linux-m3mt>
	<20100128185349.GA56543@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1001282035450.2377@banana.sluggo.net>
	<6.2.3.4.0.20100129045905.02e56450@pop.gmail.com>
	<4B67A316.3090908@gmail.com>
	<1265084304.17211.109.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
	<4145b6791002012033xc17a78flb9f6fab3ab0fb65c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c5df8cf61002030729g2b3fbbb3nb2038b5a76746542@mail.gmail.com>

I would still recommend GNUCash for the general ledger of a small business.
 In fact,  it might be better for that than for personal finance.

Another alternative would be to run QuickBooks ($$) under Wine.  From the
application database,  it sounds like it has some UI glitches but does run.
 I haven't used it myself.

On 1 February 2010 23:33, Robert Citek <robert.citek at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 11:18 PM, Peter Bart <petertheplumber at att.net>
> wrote:
> > On Mon, 2010-02-01 at 21:59 -0600, Bob Dion wrote:
> >> There's more to filling out a 1040 then adding and subtracting. It's
> >> understanding tax law. and what if any credits and deductions you are
> >> entitled to.
> >
> > And that's why I have someone do mine. For the same reason I have
> > someone fix my car, my appliances, etc.
>
> I lost track of where the topic changed, but my original question was
> about accounting software not tax software.  One would use the
> accounting software to help manage one's finances.  At the end of the
> year, that software should also present the data to you in an
> organized way for doing taxes, either for doing them yourself or for
> having done by a tax professional.
>
> To repost the last incarnation of the question: if a non-techie friend
> was starting a small business and asked me what kind of accounting
> software they should use under Linux, what should I recommend?
>
> (yes, it's different from my original question, but closer to what I
> meant to ask.)
>
> Regards,
> - Robert
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 11:50:54 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 11:50:54 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <201002022124.56590.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
References: <21403502.1264693631506.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<1265084304.17211.109.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
	<4145b6791002012033xc17a78flb9f6fab3ab0fb65c@mail.gmail.com>
	<201002022124.56590.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <4145b6791002030850t67344e3ev88ea714fd3fa4c03@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 9:24 PM, Stan Green <Stan at mcomputersolutions.com> wrote:
> OK since you ask, SAP on Linux does a great job for accounting.

Good to know and something to consider when the business really takes off.

> However is like asking what is the best car. (Chevy Camaro, of course.) Everyone
> has different requirements and taste. The first thing your friend needs to do
> is define what he wants an accounting package to do. Then take that data and
> look for a package to solve the problem. Picking a software package without a
> good understanding of the problem is like buying a car because someone else
> likes their's! Maybe their requirements are simple and something like GNUCash
> would work, or maybe the requirements are complex, like inventory and
> depreciation, so they need something more powerfull. You will not know until
> you get the requirements.

Excellent suggestion.  In fact, I like that for choosing any kind of
software not just accounting.

> On a side note, if they are starting a business and know nothing about
> accounting, this is a big red flag. There is a reason people have to go to
> college to become an accountant. As a business owner, I would recommend they
> find a good accounting firm to guide them through the first few years. This
> would allow them to focus on the business rather on making sure they are
> following Generally Accepted Accounting Procedures (GAAP). Once they have a
> good understanding of the type of accounting they need then they can start
> looking to take on the work themselves.

In other words, go with what the accountant recommends?

Actually, what most of my friends are doing is asking friends of
theirs that operate a similar line of business what they do.  "Joe
runs a coffee shop and uses XYZ software.  Since I want to run a
coffee shop, I'll use XYZ software, too.  If I run into any issues, I
can buzz Joe."  And those recommendations go beyond software into
other products and services.

Regards,
- Robert


From mdlug at wowway.com  Wed Feb  3 15:53:08 2010
From: mdlug at wowway.com (Dean Durant)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 15:53:08 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] a new place to meet
Message-ID: <685429888.11085261265230388495.JavaMail.root@md03.wow.synacor.com>

Hello, I have found a place that I think will be a good place to meet for at least as long as they are around. 


It is the Phoenix Cafe, 24918 John R Rd Hazel Park, MI 48030. 


First meeting will be Tuesday, Feb 9th, 7:00 until close, or whenever people want to leave. Close is at 11:00.   


I have already spoken to the owner, Hans. There is technically no fee to meet there. However I would like to give Hans something, he needs help keeping the place open.   But I will arrange for the initial donation to Hans because I want people to come and check it out.

The Phoenix is a performing art space, with bands on Friday and Saturday nights.   

There is wireless.   It's very quiet, almost dead on non-show nights.   

Some may remember that I tried something like this before.   The location wasn't really great, and I don't think I realized people would be there.   But I was sick that night, which rarely happens, just a bad turn of events.

I expect to be at this place in 6 days, at 7:00.   In nicer weather I can bike there, it's about 1.5 miles from my house.   Even if I am sick, I'll be there.     Parking is in the back.    The location is basically 10 mile and John R.   So I-696 is just a very short walk, I-75 is not far, Woodward is about 1.5 miles away.   

On the east side of John R, south of 696, there is a quick oil change place, then 10 mile.  Then a Thai restaurant, a sub shop, then this place.   

I'd like to do an install fest, using this hybrid google chrome/Suse hybrid distro that I've found.   I installed it on a spare at work.   It's nice.  I guess it's mostly Suse.   I tried to compile Chrome OS on this same box, that was the goal, had some problems.

I have a home machine, well two home machines, I need help with grub to do a dual boot on the newer machine.    Or I have an older box, it's showing some ATA timeouts on the CDROM, I think it's the mobo.   Maybe a USB bootable copy of the iso would work. 

Hans has some old monitors, giant old tanks, and other equipment but being as I am so close, I'll bring my home gear.  



If I can get this going as a regular thing, it might be possible to help Hans keep it open, I don't know, I guess he has the means to fund it for a while, and they do cover all their expenses and then some on show nights.  If I could run a unix/linux/MacOS/ipv6 consultancy out of there during the day, that would be great, but of course I have a very dull day job, probably not too likely.   Hans is a Mac guy, and he has heard of Open Source.  

 It's definitely a counter-cultural kind of place, the "Insane Palin Posse" may not like some of what they see but everyone is welcome.   

If you think you would like to come, please email me privately, or reply to the list, people always seem to.   Replying to the list would tell other people who all might be there.   

Hope to see folks, thanks, Dean









From gib at juno.com  Wed Feb  3 17:50:58 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 22:50:58 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  a new place to meet
Message-ID: <20100203.175058.6043.1@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>


Hey Dean, you might get better turn-out if you didn't schedule it the same night as Mug.org.

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Dean Durant <mdlug at wowway.com>
To: mdlug <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: [mdlug] a new place to meet
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 15:53:08 -0500 (EST)

Hello, I have found a place that I think will be a good place to meet for at least as long as they are around. 


It is the Phoenix Cafe, 24918 John R Rd Hazel Park, MI 48030. 


First meeting will be Tuesday, Feb 9th, 7:00 until close, or whenever people want to leave. Close is at 11:00.   


I have already spoken to the owner, Hans. There is technically no fee to meet there. However I would like to give Hans something, he needs help keeping the place open.   But I will arrange for the initial donation to Hans because I want people to come and check it out.

The Phoenix is a performing art space, with bands on Friday and Saturday nights.   

There is wireless.   It's very quiet, almost dead on non-show nights.   

Some may remember that I tried something like this before.   The location wasn't really great, and I don't think I realized people would be there.   But I was sick that night, which rarely happens, just a bad turn of events.

I expect to be at this place in 6 days, at 7:00.   In nicer weather I can bike there, it's about 1.5 miles from my house.   Even if I am sick, I'll be there.     Parking is in the back.    The location is basically 10 mile and John R.   So I-696 is just a very short walk, I-75 is not far, Woodward is about 1.5 miles away.   

On the east side of John R, south of 696, there is a quick oil change place, then 10 mile.  Then a Thai restaurant, a sub shop, then this place.   

I'd like to do an install fest, using this hybrid google chrome/Suse hybrid distro that I've found.   I installed it on a spare at work.   It's nice.  I guess it's mostly Suse.   I tried to compile Chrome OS on this same box, that was the goal, had some problems.

I have a home machine, well two home machines, I need help with grub to do a dual boot on the newer machine.    Or I have an older box, it's showing some ATA timeouts on the CDROM, I think it's the mobo.   Maybe a USB bootable copy of the iso would work. 

Hans has some old monitors, giant old tanks, and other equipment but being as I am so close, I'll bring my home gear.  



If I can get this going as a regular thing, it might be possible to help Hans keep it open, I don't know, I guess he has the means to fund it for a while, and they do cover all their expenses and then some on show nights.  If I could run a unix/linux/MacOS/ipv6 consultancy out of there during the day, that would be great, but of course I have a very dull day job, probably not too likely.   Hans is a Mac guy, and he has heard of Open Source.  

 It's definitely a counter-cultural kind of place, the "Insane Palin Posse" may not like some of what they see but everyone is welcome.   

If you think you would like to come, please email me privately, or reply to the list, people always seem to.   Replying to the list would tell other people who all might be there.   

Hope to see folks, thanks, Dean







_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


____________________________________________________________
Weight Loss Program
Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=m8t6zHKBZx6evwp3bsyC-QAAJz07QkQODMrtXujsdlflQzfUAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEUgAAAAA=


From bobdion at starline-ent.com  Thu Feb  4 09:05:28 2010
From: bobdion at starline-ent.com (bob dion)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 08:05:28 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] Open Source accounting software
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791002012033xc17a78flb9f6fab3ab0fb65c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <21403502.1264693631506.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>	<1264695035.3270.12.camel@linux-m3mt>	<20100128185349.GA56543@maniac.deathstar.org>	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1001282035450.2377@banana.sluggo.net>	<6.2.3.4.0.20100129045905.02e56450@pop.gmail.com>	<4B67A316.3090908@gmail.com>	<1265084304.17211.109.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
	<4145b6791002012033xc17a78flb9f6fab3ab0fb65c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B6AD428.3030007@wideopenwest.com>

KMymoney can connect to your bank using the aqbanking plug-in

$$ there is quasar accounting
http://www.linuxcanada.com/

and

MyBooks from AppGen
http://www.appgen.com/site/mybooks_professional.htm

for more examples see here:

http://www.aaxnet.com/design/linuxacct.html

Currently I running a very old version of MYOB under Wine. When I stop 
being lazy I switching to KMymoney.

Bob

Robert Citek wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 11:18 PM, Peter Bart <petertheplumber at att.net> wrote:
>> On Mon, 2010-02-01 at 21:59 -0600, Bob Dion wrote:
>>> There's more to filling out a 1040 then adding and subtracting. It's
>>> understanding tax law. and what if any credits and deductions you are
>>> entitled to.
>> And that's why I have someone do mine. For the same reason I have
>> someone fix my car, my appliances, etc.
> 
> I lost track of where the topic changed, but my original question was
> about accounting software not tax software.  One would use the
> accounting software to help manage one's finances.  At the end of the
> year, that software should also present the data to you in an
> organized way for doing taxes, either for doing them yourself or for
> having done by a tax professional.
> 
> To repost the last incarnation of the question: if a non-techie friend
> was starting a small business and asked me what kind of accounting
> software they should use under Linux, what should I recommend?
> 
> (yes, it's different from my original question, but closer to what I
> meant to ask.)
> 
> Regards,
> - Robert
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 



From driveray at ameritech.net  Sat Feb  6 20:23:58 2010
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 20:23:58 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] No surprises here: Microsoft to Drop Linux,
 Unix Versions of Enterprise Search
Message-ID: <4B6E162E.4060006@ameritech.net>

<http://www.nytimes.com/external/idg/2010/02/05/05idg-microsoft-to-drop-linux-unix-versions-of-enterprise-86850.html>

...

After Microsoft bought Fast Search & Transfer in 2008, it said it would
continue offering and updating standalone versions of the company's ESP
platform for Linux and Unix, wrote Bjorn Olstad, CTO for Fast and a
Microsoft distinguished engineer. "Over the last two years, we?ve done
just that."

...


From driveray at ameritech.net  Sun Feb  7 04:27:08 2010
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 04:27:08 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Detroit VMUG Meeting Invitation
Message-ID: <4B6E876C.90303@ameritech.net>

MDLUGers:
VMWare UG meeting Thur 2/18.
Note, they serve dinner. Pretty good lasagna last time I went.
This kind of conflicts with LugWash (8:00 PM WCCC) but you could duck
out a little early if you wanted too.

> View this email on mobile devices
> http://app.connect.vmware.com/e/es.aspx?s=524&e=12556055&elq=64e8f9a594ac4c7780d0ccdb8b3f561a&OPENID=Mobile
> 
> Online version 
> http://app.connect.vmware.com/e/es.aspx?s=524&e=12556055&elq=64e8f9a594ac4c7780d0ccdb8b3f561a&OPENID=Mobile
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Detroit VMware User Group 
> Meeting Invitation
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
> Please join us for the upcoming Detroit VMware User Group meeting on Thursday, February 18th.
> Come to network and share ideas with an innovative group of VMware users as you learn how to get the most out of your VMware solutions.
> 
> Date: February 18, 2010
> Time: 5:30 p.m. - 8:00 p.m.
> 
> Location: 
> Wayne RESA 
> (Regional Educational Service Agency) 
> 33500 Van Born Road 
> Wayne, MI 48184
> 
> Directions:  http://tinyurl.com/4eo5wm
> To register: http://www.vmware.com/resources/communities/usergroup/events.html
> 
> Agenda 
> 
> 05:30 p.m. - Greetings - Dinner - Introduction
> 05:50 p.m. - VMware Updates - James Wheeler 
> 06:00 p.m. - Virtual Desktops - Brandon Sanders, Data Strategy
> 06:40 p.m. - VMware ThinApp Demo - Chris Everett, VMware
> 07:30 p.m. - Q&A, Group Discussion, Raffle, Meeting Wrap-Up
> 8:45 p.m. - Meeting Wrap-Up
> 
> Sponsored by Data Strategy
> 
> Register today to join us for this FREE informative event.  Space is limited, so respond as soon as possible to reserve your seat. 
> 
> The VMUG Team
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> VMware, Inc. 3401 Hillview Ave Palo Alto CA 94304 USA Tel 1-877-486-9273
> Copyright ? 2010 VMware, Inc. All rights reserved. VMware is a registered 
> trademark of VMware, Inc. 
> Thank you for registering with VMware. Any information that you provide to 
> VMware will be treated in accordance with our Privacy Policy:
> http://www.vmware.com/help/privacy.html?elq=64e8f9a594ac4c7780d0ccdb8b3f561a
> 
> To manage your profile and subscription preferences, please go to your VMware Profile here:
> http://info.vmware.com/forms/Profile?elq=64e8f9a594ac4c7780d0ccdb8b3f561a 
> 
> To UNSUBSCRIBE completely from VMware communications, please go to 
> http://info.vmware.com/content/opt-out?elq=64e8f9a594ac4c7780d0ccdb8b3f561a


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 17:47:09 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 17:47:09 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Another one from the family IT emergency broadcast service
Message-ID: <b02c40e91002091447u10405db9ub0f8a843d144919@mail.gmail.com>

I don't just need a spam filter, I need an IQ filter.

==========================================
PLEASE CIRCULATE to your friends, family and contacts.

In the coming days,  Do not open any message with an attachment called:

Black in the White House,

Regardless of who sent you ... It is a virus that opens an Olympic
torch that burns the whole hard disk C of your computer.

This virus comes from a known person who you had in your list

Directions. . That's why you should send this message to all your contacts.

It is better to receive this email 25 times [than] to receive the
virus and open .. If you receive a message called: black in the white
house, even sent by a friend, do not open and shut down your machine
immediately. It is the worst virus announced by CNN.

A new virus has been discovered recently it has been classified by
Microsoft as the virus most destructive ever. This virus was
discovered yesterday afternoon by Mc Afee. And there is no repair yet
for this kind of virus. This virus simply destroys the Zero Sector of
the hard disk, where information vital function is stored.


From amajorov at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  9 18:30:24 2010
From: amajorov at yahoo.com (Allen Majorovic)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 15:30:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] Another one from the family IT emergency broadcast
	service
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e91002091447u10405db9ub0f8a843d144919@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <844313.91092.qm@web113308.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

According to snopes.com, urbanlegends.about.com, www.hoax-slayer.com and a couple of other such sites it's a hoax.

Allen

--- On Tue, 2/9/10, Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com>
Subject: [mdlug] Another one from the family IT emergency broadcast service
To: "MDLUG's Main discussion list" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Date: Tuesday, February 9, 2010, 5:47 PM

I don't just need a spam filter, I need an IQ filter.

==========================================
PLEASE CIRCULATE to your friends, family and contacts.

In the coming days,? Do not open any message with an attachment called:

Black in the White House,

Regardless of who sent you ... It is a virus that opens an Olympic
torch that burns the whole hard disk C of your computer.

This virus comes from a known person who you had in your list

Directions. . That's why you should send this message to all your contacts.

It is better to receive this email 25 times [than] to receive the
virus and open .. If you receive a message called: black in the white
house, even sent by a friend, do not open and shut down your machine
immediately. It is the worst virus announced by CNN.

A new virus has been discovered recently it has been classified by
Microsoft as the virus most destructive ever. This virus was
discovered yesterday afternoon by Mc Afee. And there is no repair yet
for this kind of virus. This virus simply destroys the Zero Sector of
the hard disk, where information vital function is stored.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 18:57:20 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 18:57:20 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Another one from the family IT emergency broadcast
	service
In-Reply-To: <844313.91092.qm@web113308.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <b02c40e91002091447u10405db9ub0f8a843d144919@mail.gmail.com>
	<844313.91092.qm@web113308.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e91002091557k560774fdv19f57fd0c7c5cbce@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 6:30 PM, Allen Majorovic <amajorov at yahoo.com> wrote:
> According to snopes.com, urbanlegends.about.com, www.hoax-slayer.com and a couple of other such sites it's a hoax.
>

I refer them to Snopes so often that I'm considering asking for a referral fee.


From alexc at disklessworkstations.com  Wed Feb 10 16:31:33 2010
From: alexc at disklessworkstations.com (Alex Colcernian)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:31:33 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Learn Linux Thin Client Software - LTSP Boot Camp
Message-ID: <4B7325B5.5000801@disklessworkstations.com>

Hello MDLUG Members,

I wanted to inform everyone about LTSP Boot Camp. LTSP (Linux Terminal 
Server Project) was founded back in 1999 alongside 
DisklessWorkstations.com. If your familiar with the project or its 
history, you already know it has grown considerably all over the world.

On March 22nd and 23rd we are hosting LTSP Boot Camp. LTSP Boot Camp is 
two day hands on, interactive training seminar. Attendees will learn 
everything there is to know about LTSP 5, specifically in Ubuntu 9.10. 
Hardware will be available for every individual attendee throughout the 
entire seminar.

More information can be found by visiting: 
http://www.DisklessWorkstations.com/ltspBootCamp.html

Thank You,

-- 
Alex Colcernian
Director - Marketing and Sales
DisklessWorkstations.com
Phone: 248.724.0701
Fax: 248.577.0201
Twitter: @AlexDLWS



From driveray at ameritech.net  Thu Feb 11 02:52:37 2010
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 02:52:37 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Reminder: MDLUG Sat Feb 13 Meeting - 2010 Officer Election
 and Bylaw Changes
Message-ID: <4B73B745.8030107@ameritech.net>

Mary Tomich <mailto:secretary at mdlug.org> wrote:

> Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 14:50:32 -0500
> From: marytee
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> 
> The next MDLUG general membership meeting will be on Saturday, February 
> 13, 2010 at 12:30PM at Gaudior Academy 27100 Avondale Avenue Inkster MI 
> 48141.
> 
> Meeting agenda is:
> 
> 1. Election of 2010 officers:
> 
> a. Nominations for 2010 MDLUG officers:
>     President - Gibson Nichols
>     Vice President  - Garry Stahl
>     Michael Persello  - Treasurer
>     Secretary - Tony Bemus
> 
>   (If you wish to vote by proxy, please notify the Secretary 
> (secretary at mdlug.org) via email prior to the meeting, with the following 
> information: (a.) Your Name; (b.) MDLUG member who will cast your proxy 
> vote;  (c.) Be sure and put 2010 MDLUG Officer proxy vote in the subject 
> line.
> 
> 
> 2. Vote on the following bylaw amendments:
> 
> a. Eliminate paper library by amending MDLUG bylaws ( Section V, 
> subsection A, part 6) to read: The librarian who collects, maintains, 
> and makes available to members freely distributable software.
> 
> b. Amend MDLUG bylaws, Section V Subsection A, to add part 7: Meeting 
> room logistics facilitator who manages the planning and set-up for the 
> MDLUG monthly meeting space.
> 
> c. Amend bylaws by adding Section V. Subsection C.: Appointed positions 
> may be held by an elected officer provided that he or she agrees to 
> assume the duties of the appointed position.
> 
> 
> 
> 3. Vote on the following motion:  Create Cafe Press Account to sell 
> MDLUG merchandise.
> 
> ------------------------
> 
> Following the business meeting we will have the following informational 
> sessions:
> 
> Tech Tip: "Don't rm, shred instead!" Presented by Mat Enders
> Quick tutorial on rsync presented by Mary Tomich
>  
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 



From driveray at ameritech.net  Thu Feb 11 03:03:24 2010
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 03:03:24 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Reminder: MDLUG Sat Feb 13 Meeting - 2010 Officer
 Election and Bylaw Changes
In-Reply-To: <4B73B745.8030107@ameritech.net>
References: <4B73B745.8030107@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <4B73B9CC.8080900@ameritech.net>

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Mary Tomich <mailto:secretary at mdlug.org> wrote:

>> 2. Vote on the following bylaw amendments:

The relevant section of the by-laws can be found here:
<http://mdlug.org/bylaws.html#APPOINTED_POSITIONS>

>> a. Eliminate paper library by amending MDLUG bylaws ( Section V, 
>> subsection A, part 6) to read: The librarian who collects, maintains, 
>> and makes available to members freely distributable software.

VA6 currently reads:
"The librarian who collects, maintains, and makes available to members
donated software and books."


>> b. Amend MDLUG bylaws, Section V Subsection A, to add part 7: Meeting 
>> room logistics facilitator who manages the planning and set-up for the 
>> MDLUG monthly meeting space.

The proposed 7 would be a new part.

>> c. Amend bylaws by adding Section V. Subsection C.: Appointed positions 
>> may be held by an elected officer provided that he or she agrees to 
>> assume the duties of the appointed position.

The proposed C would be a new subsection.


Raymond McLaughlin


From gib at juno.com  Thu Feb 11 20:42:03 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 01:42:03 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] Reminder: MDLUG Sat Feb 13 Meeting - 2010 Officer
	Election	 and Bylaw Changes
Message-ID: <20100211.204203.7718.0@webmail01.vgs.untd.com>


The Penguicon room party . . . did we want to talk about it?

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Raymond McLaughlin <driveray at ameritech.net>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Reminder: MDLUG Sat Feb 13 Meeting - 2010 Officer Election and Bylaw Changes
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 03:03:24 -0500

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Mary Tomich <mailto:secretary at mdlug.org> wrote:

>> 2. Vote on the following bylaw amendments:

The relevant section of the by-laws can be found here:
<http://mdlug.org/bylaws.html#APPOINTED_POSITIONS>

>> a. Eliminate paper library by amending MDLUG bylaws ( Section V, 
>> subsection A, part 6) to read: The librarian who collects, maintains, 
>> and makes available to members freely distributable software.

VA6 currently reads:
"The librarian who collects, maintains, and makes available to members
donated software and books."


>> b. Amend MDLUG bylaws, Section V Subsection A, to add part 7: Meeting 
>> room logistics facilitator who manages the planning and set-up for the 
>> MDLUG monthly meeting space.

The proposed 7 would be a new part.

>> c. Amend bylaws by adding Section V. Subsection C.: Appointed positions 
>> may be held by an elected officer provided that he or she agrees to 
>> assume the duties of the appointed position.

The proposed C would be a new subsection.


Raymond McLaughlin
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


____________________________________________________________
Diet Help
Cheap Diet Help Tips. Click here.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=ue_lVThD-J4JgRWqcxN4IAAAJz07QkQODMrtXujsdlflQzfUAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYQAAAAAA=


From gib at juno.com  Sat Feb 13 13:03:29 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 18:03:29 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] IRC for mdlug.org
Message-ID: <20100213.130329.17573.0@webmail24.vgs.untd.com>


I was just thinking of using the "mdlug.org" IRC channel freenode. 

____________________________________________________________
Nutrition
Improve your career health. Click now to study nutrition!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=ajYKLi_1_WB-EBsfQCFkggAAJz07QkQODMrtXujsdlflQzfUAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASQwAAAAA=


From bradmcmahon at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 12:55:44 2010
From: bradmcmahon at gmail.com (Bradley McMahon)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:55:44 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Penguicon call for talks
Message-ID: <9199bfb1002160955q3d1d5b43n7b42a54e9f785@mail.gmail.com>

Penguicon a SE Michigan Tech & SciFi con is coming up April 30th - May 2nd.

If your interested in giving a talk in or around the topics of
Costuming, Food, Video Games, Gaming, Green/Eco, Technology, Science,
DIY please reply to me offlist.

Why come to penguicon?:
- turn on, tune in, geek out
- free booze
- room parties
- hang out with fellow hacker, geeks, technophiles, infomaniacs, etc..
- learn a thing or two at the talks
Current guests: Larry Pesce (pauldotcom.com), Adrian "Irongeek"
Crenshaw, Shawn Powers (Linux Journal), blah blah a bunch more of
linux nerds


Why Talk?:
- Give three talks at the con (~3 hrs) and get a reduced entrance fee
- earn geek cred
- get access to certain vip areas

If you want more details check out penguicon.org

See you there,

-Brad McMahon
2010 Penguicon Tech programmer
and i3 member


From tesral at wowway.com  Wed Feb 17 11:09:09 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:09:09 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <9199bfb1002160955q3d1d5b43n7b42a54e9f785@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9199bfb1002160955q3d1d5b43n7b42a54e9f785@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>

I'm looking for any way to clear crashed Open Office without rebooting
the computer or restarting Xsever.  When the dang thing locks up it
locks, and I can't identify its processes in top to kill it. 

Any ideas? 

Open suse 11 with KDE.  Not a cli guru.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? -Mohandas K. Gandhi  
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From radkins at impelind.com  Wed Feb 17 11:28:56 2010
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins II)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:28:56 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>

The process should have something related to soffice.bin

Open up a terminal and type in the following:

ps -ef | grep soff

It should provide you a short list of any process with soff in the name,
which should be Open Office. Why soffice.bin you ask? It's a throwback to
when OpenOffice.org was Star Office.

The line should present you with the process name and the process ID.

To which you type in:

kill -9 <process number>

Which should kill the OpenOffice.org process.

-Rob
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Garry Stahl
> Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 11:09 AM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
> 
> I'm looking for any way to clear crashed Open Office without 
> rebooting the computer or restarting Xsever.  When the dang 
> thing locks up it locks, and I can't identify its processes 
> in top to kill it. 
> 
> Any ideas? 
> 
> Open suse 11 with KDE.  Not a cli guru.
> 
> --
> Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.
> 
> What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and 
> the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under 
> the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or 
> democracy? -Mohandas K. Gandhi Star Trek mort. Viva la Star 
> Trek admiraetur The Olde Phoenix Inn 
> http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com Metro Detroit Linux Users Group 
> http://www.mdlug.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 



From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Wed Feb 17 11:39:10 2010
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:39:10 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>
	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

killall -9 soffice.bin would do the trick, too.  :)  But only if you intend to... well, kill all soffice.bin processes. 

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Robert Adkins II
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 11:29 AM
To: 'MDLUG's Main discussion list'
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Office failures

The process should have something related to soffice.bin

Open up a terminal and type in the following:

ps -ef | grep soff

It should provide you a short list of any process with soff in the name,
which should be Open Office. Why soffice.bin you ask? It's a throwback to
when OpenOffice.org was Star Office.

The line should present you with the process name and the process ID.

To which you type in:

kill -9 <process number>

Which should kill the OpenOffice.org process.

-Rob
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Garry Stahl
> Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 11:09 AM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
> 
> I'm looking for any way to clear crashed Open Office without 
> rebooting the computer or restarting Xsever.  When the dang 
> thing locks up it locks, and I can't identify its processes 
> in top to kill it. 
> 
> Any ideas? 
> 
> Open suse 11 with KDE.  Not a cli guru.
> 
> --
> Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.
> 
> What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and 
> the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under 
> the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or 
> democracy? -Mohandas K. Gandhi Star Trek mort. Viva la Star 
> Trek admiraetur The Olde Phoenix Inn 
> http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com Metro Detroit Linux Users Group 
> http://www.mdlug.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From driveray at ameritech.net  Wed Feb 17 13:09:01 2010
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:09:01 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
Message-ID: <4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>

Wojtak, Greg wrote:
> killall -9 soffice.bin would do the trick, too.  :)
>But only if you intend to... well, kill all soffice.bin processes. 

Actually it would kill all soffice.bin processes that your current user
has permisions to kill. You *shouldn't* be able to kill processes of
other users. Of course this is of concern only on systems with multiple
concurrent users.

Raymond Mclaughlin



From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Wed Feb 17 13:33:55 2010
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:33:55 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>
	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B16D0A@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

Well, since my login id is 'root'...  ;) 

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Raymond McLaughlin
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 1:09 PM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Office failures

Wojtak, Greg wrote:
> killall -9 soffice.bin would do the trick, too.  :)
>But only if you intend to... well, kill all soffice.bin processes. 

Actually it would kill all soffice.bin processes that your current user
has permisions to kill. You *shouldn't* be able to kill processes of
other users. Of course this is of concern only on systems with multiple
concurrent users.

Raymond Mclaughlin

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 17 13:39:22 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:39:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>
	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <826576.32197.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

What is the difference between "kill -9" and "kill -15"




________________________________
From: Raymond McLaughlin <driveray at ameritech.net>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Wed, February 17, 2010 1:09:01 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Office failures

Wojtak, Greg wrote:
> killall -9 soffice.bin would do the trick, too.? :)
>But only if you intend to... well, kill all soffice.bin processes. 

Actually it would kill all soffice.bin processes that your current user
has permisions to kill. You *shouldn't* be able to kill processes of
other users. Of course this is of concern only on systems with multiple
concurrent users.

Raymond Mclaughlin

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 17 13:40:10 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:40:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B16D0A@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>
	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B16D0A@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
Message-ID: <474923.22596.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

What is the difference between "kill -9" and "kill -15"


David C. Lane 

?



________________________________
From: "Wojtak, Greg" <GregWojtak at quickenloans.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Wed, February 17, 2010 1:33:55 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Office failures

Well, since my login id is 'root'...? ;) 

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Raymond McLaughlin
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 1:09 PM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Office failures

Wojtak, Greg wrote:
> killall -9 soffice.bin would do the trick, too.? :)
>But only if you intend to... well, kill all soffice.bin processes. 

Actually it would kill all soffice.bin processes that your current user
has permisions to kill. You *shouldn't* be able to kill processes of
other users. Of course this is of concern only on systems with multiple
concurrent users.

Raymond Mclaughlin

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Wed Feb 17 13:57:51 2010
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:57:51 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Signals (was: Open Office failures)
In-Reply-To: <474923.22596.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com><20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com><9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com><4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net><9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B16D0A@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<474923.22596.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E03704665130@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: David Lane

> What is the difference between "kill -9" and "kill -15"

 On Linux, signal 15 is "SIGTERM", the "Terminate signal". By default,
if the application doesn't do anything, the OS will stop the program,
release its process ID, free its memory, etc. However, applications can
intercept this signal if they choose. Normally, an application that
intercepts this signal will then proceed to 'cleanly' shut down - safely
closing files, etc.

 However, if the application is in a bad state, this can go awry, and
the application doesn't shut down.

 Signal 9, on the other hand, is the "Kill signal". The OS doesn't give
the application any opportunity to intercept that signal. Instead, the
OS gets busy terminating the application with extreme prejudice. The
application gets no say in the matter, and doesn't get to close open
files cleanly or anything like that.

 So, "kill -15" is the equivalent of "Shut down, please." On the other
hand, "kill -9" is the equivalent of "Die sucker! *Bang*!"

 Note: sometimes even "kill -9" doesn't work. Generally this is a
symptom of either a bug in the kernel or some kind of hardware issue. If
the application is trying to read or write from a disk, for example, and
there's a hardware error that's hanging part of the kernel.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                                   (313)
227-2317

 "On two occasions I have been asked,  'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put
into
  the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' ...I am
not
    able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could
 provoke such a question." - Charles Babbage, inventor of the first
computer

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.



From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Wed Feb 17 13:59:15 2010
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:59:15 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <474923.22596.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>
	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B16D0A@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<474923.22596.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B16DCC@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

Technically, they can vary from system to system.  In practice, I haven't run across a UNIX or UNIX-like system where they are different.  Kill -9 sends a SIGKILL to the process, which is not trappable - that is, it is immediately killed off from the process table.  Kill -15 sends a SIGTERM which also tells the process to die off, but it is trappable and the process can therefore call a function to run cleanup before actually dying off.

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of David Lane
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 1:40 PM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Office failures

What is the difference between "kill -9" and "kill -15"


David C. Lane 

?



________________________________
From: "Wojtak, Greg" <GregWojtak at quickenloans.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Wed, February 17, 2010 1:33:55 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Office failures

Well, since my login id is 'root'...? ;) 

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Raymond McLaughlin
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 1:09 PM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Office failures

Wojtak, Greg wrote:
> killall -9 soffice.bin would do the trick, too.? :)
>But only if you intend to... well, kill all soffice.bin processes. 

Actually it would kill all soffice.bin processes that your current user
has permisions to kill. You *shouldn't* be able to kill processes of
other users. Of course this is of concern only on systems with multiple
concurrent users.

Raymond Mclaughlin

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 13:58:59 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:58:59 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <826576.32197.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>
	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>
	<826576.32197.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e91002171058s5beaad77m3ad2914bfb93d39f@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 1:39 PM, David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com> wrote:
> What is the difference between "kill -9" and "kill -15"

15 asks nicely.  9 doesn't.

KDE should have a graphical process monitor of some sort that you
could use to kill it instead.  On Ubuntu with Gnome it's System >
Administration > System Monitor > Processes.


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 17 14:08:21 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:08:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e91002171058s5beaad77m3ad2914bfb93d39f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>
	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>
	<826576.32197.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<b02c40e91002171058s5beaad77m3ad2914bfb93d39f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <403101.37185.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I remembered that But I was not sure the one that asked nicely.? 

Back to Open Office, when it runs into trouble are the JAVA resources an issue?


David C. Lane

?



________________________________
From: Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Wed, February 17, 2010 1:58:59 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Office failures

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 1:39 PM, David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com> wrote:
> What is the difference between "kill -9" and "kill -15"

15 asks nicely.? 9 doesn't.

KDE should have a graphical process monitor of some sort that you
could use to kill it instead.? On Ubuntu with Gnome it's System >
Administration > System Monitor > Processes.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      


From awilliam at opengroupware.us  Wed Feb 17 14:44:05 2010
From: awilliam at opengroupware.us (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:44:05 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <403101.37185.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>
	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>
	<826576.32197.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<b02c40e91002171058s5beaad77m3ad2914bfb93d39f@mail.gmail.com>
	<403101.37185.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1266435845.3321.5.camel@linux-m3mt>

On Wed, 2010-02-17 at 11:08 -0800, David Lane wrote:
> I remembered that But I was not sure the one that asked nicely.  
> Back to Open Office, when it runs into trouble are the JAVA resources an issue?

There is little point in blindly blaming any component.  You'd need to
use strace, lsof, fuser, and friends to try and narrow down the hung
component.

On the other hand recent versions of Open Office are very stable - so
the possibly exists that the problem isn't even Open Office but some
other component of your stack and the issue is merely manifesting in
Open Office.  OOo is a large and powerful application that pushes
underlying libraries and components pretty hard.

If you can repeat the hang run it under gdb and capture the stack.



From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 17 15:01:26 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:01:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <1266435845.3321.5.camel@linux-m3mt>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>
	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>
	<826576.32197.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<b02c40e91002171058s5beaad77m3ad2914bfb93d39f@mail.gmail.com>
	<403101.37185.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<1266435845.3321.5.camel@linux-m3mt>
Message-ID: <957807.77646.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Well that was the thing: I have used OO for quite some time on both Windows and linux and I have not had a problem.

When I did it was because of something else. I have a windows node that has both OO and office 2007 and I contenually use OO.

David C. Lane 




________________________________
From: Adam Tauno Williams <awilliam at opengroupware.us>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Wed, February 17, 2010 2:44:05 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Office failures

On Wed, 2010-02-17 at 11:08 -0800, David Lane wrote:
> I remembered that But I was not sure the one that asked nicely.? 
> Back to Open Office, when it runs into trouble are the JAVA resources an issue?

There is little point in blindly blaming any component.? You'd need to
use strace, lsof, fuser, and friends to try and narrow down the hung
component.

On the other hand recent versions of Open Office are very stable - so
the possibly exists that the problem isn't even Open Office but some
other component of your stack and the issue is merely manifesting in
Open Office.? OOo is a large and powerful application that pushes
underlying libraries and components pretty hard.

If you can repeat the hang run it under gdb and capture the stack.

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      


From tesral at wowway.com  Wed Feb 17 15:14:58 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:14:58 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <403101.37185.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>	<4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>	<826576.32197.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<b02c40e91002171058s5beaad77m3ad2914bfb93d39f@mail.gmail.com>
	<403101.37185.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4B7C4E42.6010305@wowway.com>

David Lane wrote:
> I remembered that But I was not sure the one that asked nicely.  
>
> Back to Open Office, when it runs into trouble are the JAVA resources an issue?
>
>
>   
I couldn't tell you and would not know how to check.  The symptom is a
total lock of Open Office.  Can't do anything with it can't close it. 
The rest of the computer sails along without a hitch.  I just have one
desktop I can't do anything with.  I usually end up ending the session. 
That does clear it out.

Java problems?  Would not surprise me.  Java is the weak link in OO.


-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? -Mohandas K. Gandhi  
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From tesral at wowway.com  Wed Feb 17 15:17:45 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:17:45 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <957807.77646.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>	<4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>	<826576.32197.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<b02c40e91002171058s5beaad77m3ad2914bfb93d39f@mail.gmail.com>	<403101.37185.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<1266435845.3321.5.camel@linux-m3mt>
	<957807.77646.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4B7C4EE9.7070606@wowway.com>

David Lane wrote:
> Well that was the thing: I have used OO for quite some time on both Windows and linux and I have not had a problem.
>
> When I did it was because of something else. I have a windows node that has both OO and office 2007 and I contenually use OO.
>   
Likewise.  Firefox is more likely to hang than OO.  But once in a while
it does.  I multitask a machine pretty hard coming form the Amiga side. 
Four desktops open and multiple windows in each. 


-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? -Mohandas K. Gandhi  
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From jrw32982 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 17 15:27:42 2010
From: jrw32982 at yahoo.com (John Wiersba)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:27:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <mailman.24.1266433501.4724.mdlug@mdlug.org>
References: <mailman.24.1266433501.4724.mdlug@mdlug.org>
Message-ID: <890241.42966.qm@web52705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

In general, it's a bad idea to run programs such as Open Office as root.

-- John Wiersba


Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:33:55 -0500
From: "Wojtak, Greg" <GregWojtak at quickenloans.com>
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Office failures
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Message-ID:
    <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B16D0A at EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
    
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Well, since my login id is 'root'...  ;) 



      


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 17 15:29:04 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:29:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <4B7C4E42.6010305@wowway.com>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>
	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>
	<826576.32197.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<b02c40e91002171058s5beaad77m3ad2914bfb93d39f@mail.gmail.com>
	<403101.37185.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4B7C4E42.6010305@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <186490.70338.qm@web37907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

"top" could tell you what is using up cpu resources.

David C. Lane




________________________________
From: Garry Stahl <tesral at wowway.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Wed, February 17, 2010 3:14:58 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Office failures

David Lane wrote:
> I remembered that But I was not sure the one that asked nicely.? 
>
> Back to Open Office, when it runs into trouble are the JAVA resources an issue?
>
>
>? 
I couldn't tell you and would not know how to check.? The symptom is a
total lock of Open Office.? Can't do anything with it can't close it. 
The rest of the computer sails along without a hitch.? I just have one
desktop I can't do anything with.? I usually end up ending the session. 
That does clear it out.

Java problems?? Would not surprise me.? Java is the weak link in OO.


-- 
Garry? AKA? --Phoenix--? Rising above the Flames.

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? -Mohandas K. Gandhi? 
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 17 15:30:24 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:30:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <890241.42966.qm@web52705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.24.1266433501.4724.mdlug@mdlug.org>
	<890241.42966.qm@web52705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <830566.83533.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I think the goal was to kill other users.




________________________________
From: John Wiersba <jrw32982 at yahoo.com>
To: mdlug at mdlug.org
Sent: Wed, February 17, 2010 3:27:42 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Office failures

In general, it's a bad idea to run programs such as Open Office as root.

-- John Wiersba


Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:33:55 -0500
From: "Wojtak, Greg" <GregWojtak at quickenloans.com>
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Office failures
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Message-ID:
? ? <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B16D0A at EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
? ? 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Well, since my login id is 'root'...? ;) 



? ? ? 
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      


From dand at zifferent.net  Wed Feb 17 16:31:02 2010
From: dand at zifferent.net (Dan DeSloover)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:31:02 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <474923.22596.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>
	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B16D0A@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<474923.22596.qm@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <40686.10.1.1.110.1266442262.squirrel@www.zifferent.net>

Oh about 6.

David Lane wrote:
> What is the difference between "kill -9" and "kill -15"
>
>
> David C. Lane
>
> ?
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "Wojtak, Greg" <GregWojtak at quickenloans.com>
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Sent: Wed, February 17, 2010 1:33:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Office failures
>
> Well, since my login id is 'root'...? ;)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
> Of Raymond McLaughlin
> Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 1:09 PM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Office failures
>
> Wojtak, Greg wrote:
>> killall -9 soffice.bin would do the trick, too.? :)
>>But only if you intend to... well, kill all soffice.bin processes.
>
> Actually it would kill all soffice.bin processes that your current user
> has permisions to kill. You *shouldn't* be able to kill processes of
> other users. Of course this is of concern only on systems with multiple
> concurrent users.
>
> Raymond Mclaughlin
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


----
Dan DeSloover



From dand at zifferent.net  Wed Feb 17 16:34:45 2010
From: dand at zifferent.net (Dan DeSloover)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:34:45 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <957807.77646.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>
	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>
	<826576.32197.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<b02c40e91002171058s5beaad77m3ad2914bfb93d39f@mail.gmail.com>
	<403101.37185.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<1266435845.3321.5.camel@linux-m3mt>
	<957807.77646.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <46900.10.1.1.110.1266442485.squirrel@www.zifferent.net>

Have you tried xkill?
Type
#xkill
and then point and click at the program that you want to die.
BTW are you running an X session logged in as root?


David Lane wrote:
> Well that was the thing: I have used OO for quite some time on both
> Windows and linux and I have not had a problem.
>
> When I did it was because of something else. I have a windows node that
> has both OO and office 2007 and I contenually use OO.
>
> David C. Lane
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Adam Tauno Williams <awilliam at opengroupware.us>
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Sent: Wed, February 17, 2010 2:44:05 PM
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Office failures
>
> On Wed, 2010-02-17 at 11:08 -0800, David Lane wrote:
>> I remembered that But I was not sure the one that asked nicely.?
>> Back to Open Office, when it runs into trouble are the JAVA resources an
>> issue?
>
> There is little point in blindly blaming any component.? You'd need to
> use strace, lsof, fuser, and friends to try and narrow down the hung
> component.
>
> On the other hand recent versions of Open Office are very stable - so
> the possibly exists that the problem isn't even Open Office but some
> other component of your stack and the issue is merely manifesting in
> Open Office.? OOo is a large and powerful application that pushes
> underlying libraries and components pretty hard.
>
> If you can repeat the hang run it under gdb and capture the stack.
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


----
Dan DeSloover



From tesral at wowway.com  Wed Feb 17 16:46:30 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:46:30 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <890241.42966.qm@web52705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.24.1266433501.4724.mdlug@mdlug.org>
	<890241.42966.qm@web52705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4B7C63B6.50207@wowway.com>

John Wiersba wrote:
> In general, it's a bad idea to run programs such as Open Office as root.
>   

In general isn't it a bad idea to run as root?  Something I never do
unless I need root.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? -Mohandas K. Gandhi  
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From bobdion at starline-ent.com  Wed Feb 17 22:01:25 2010
From: bobdion at starline-ent.com (bob dion)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 21:01:25 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e91002171058s5beaad77m3ad2914bfb93d39f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>	<4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>	<826576.32197.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<b02c40e91002171058s5beaad77m3ad2914bfb93d39f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B7CAD85.4010803@wideopenwest.com>


> KDE should have a graphical process monitor of some sort that you
> could use to kill it instead.  On Ubuntu with Gnome it's System >
> Administration > System Monitor > Processes.
>

In KDE press Ctrl-Esc to bring up the process table
press Ctrl-Alt-Esc to invoke xkill, press Esc again to cancel xkill.

and sometimes pressing Esc while clicking on the X icon window control 
will kill the program.

Bob


From micorral at comcast.net  Thu Feb 18 00:46:06 2010
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:46:06 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <403101.37185.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>
	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>
	<826576.32197.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<b02c40e91002171058s5beaad77m3ad2914bfb93d39f@mail.gmail.com>
	<403101.37185.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.1002180043420.2337@banana.sluggo.net>

2010-02-17, Monsieur David Lane a ecrit:
> Back to Open Office, when it runs into trouble are the JAVA resources
> an issue?

What "JAVA resources" are you talking about? Open Office is not a
Java application.

P.S. Note how I didn't use all uppercase letters for Java. :)

Michael


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 01:31:24 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 01:31:24 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.00.1002180043420.2337@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>
	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>
	<826576.32197.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<b02c40e91002171058s5beaad77m3ad2914bfb93d39f@mail.gmail.com>
	<403101.37185.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1002180043420.2337@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <b02c40e91002172231j59541f03re0432853b997bbef@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 12:46 AM, Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net> wrote:
> 2010-02-17, Monsieur David Lane a ecrit:
>> Back to Open Office, when it runs into trouble are the JAVA resources
>> an issue?
>
> What "JAVA resources" are you talking about? Open Office is not a
> Java application.
>

Base is a Java app.


From micorral at comcast.net  Thu Feb 18 02:09:16 2010
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 02:09:16 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e91002172231j59541f03re0432853b997bbef@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>
	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>
	<826576.32197.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<b02c40e91002171058s5beaad77m3ad2914bfb93d39f@mail.gmail.com>
	<403101.37185.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1002180043420.2337@banana.sluggo.net>
	<b02c40e91002172231j59541f03re0432853b997bbef@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.1002180157450.3668@banana.sluggo.net>

2010-02-18, Monsieur Jeff Hanson a ecrit:
> On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 12:46 AM, Michael Corral wrote:
>> 2010-02-17, Monsieur David Lane a ecrit:
>>> Back to Open Office, when it runs into trouble are the JAVA resources
>>> an issue?
>>
>> What "JAVA resources" are you talking about? Open Office is not a
>> Java application.
>
> Base is a Java app.

http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/FAQ_(Base)#Java

Short version: It can use Java, but can still run without it.
So I wouldn't call it a Java app.

And Writer, Calc, Impress, Draw, and Math are not Java apps at all.

I've run Open Office on machines without Java installed, and believe
me, it's more than capable of crashing on its own. :)

Michael


From carl at carltm.com  Thu Feb 18 06:01:56 2010
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 06:01:56 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] used servers for sale?
Message-ID: <a541d060071f6bb618a43fd9f364136f.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

I often use older servers for projects and this is the
first time I need something better than what I have on
hand.  I'm setting up a private cloud (yeah, I know that's
an oxymoron) and need two or three servers with a little
horsepower.  Where are the good sources of 1 to 3 year
old servers?

c




From billings at negate.org  Thu Feb 18 08:28:44 2010
From: billings at negate.org (Jonathan Billings)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 08:28:44 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.00.1002180043420.2337@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>
	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>
	<826576.32197.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<b02c40e91002171058s5beaad77m3ad2914bfb93d39f@mail.gmail.com>
	<403101.37185.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1002180043420.2337@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <20100218132843.GC2337@caen-gx755.engin.umich.edu>

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 12:46:06AM -0500, Michael Corral wrote:
>
> 2010-02-17, Monsieur David Lane a ecrit:
> > Back to Open Office, when it runs into trouble are the JAVA resources
> > an issue?
> 
> What "JAVA resources" are you talking about? Open Office is not a
> Java application.

One of the first things I do when I use OpenOffice on a new system is
turn off Java:

Just go to the Tools menu -> Options, then click on the "Java" subitem
under "OpenOffice.org" and unclick the "Use a java runtime
environment".  

I've found it speeds up OpenOffice applications.  (although this might
not be the case anymore with faster computers)

-- 
Jonathan Billings <billings at negate.org>


From smunro622 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 08:36:10 2010
From: smunro622 at gmail.com (stuart munro)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 08:36:10 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] used servers for sale?
In-Reply-To: <a541d060071f6bb618a43fd9f364136f.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
References: <a541d060071f6bb618a43fd9f364136f.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <37D4713C-F030-45DB-B6F6-56F08200CB27@gmail.com>

I use a company called stallard technologies

http://www.stikc.com/

I deal with matt crall he is a good  guy..


On Feb 18, 2010, at 6:01 AM, Carl T. Miller wrote:

> I often use older servers for projects and this is the
> first time I need something better than what I have on
> hand.  I'm setting up a private cloud (yeah, I know that's
> an oxymoron) and need two or three servers with a little
> horsepower.  Where are the good sources of 1 to 3 year
> old servers?
> 
> c
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 18 08:51:49 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 05:51:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <20100218132843.GC2337@caen-gx755.engin.umich.edu>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>
	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>
	<826576.32197.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<b02c40e91002171058s5beaad77m3ad2914bfb93d39f@mail.gmail.com>
	<403101.37185.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1002180043420.2337@banana.sluggo.net>
	<20100218132843.GC2337@caen-gx755.engin.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <401343.64100.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I will look at that. 

I'm a fan of compiling to binary. 

Some of the backgound resources in Education Admin Systems (Datatel) have Java elements that bog down the servers and the hardware is 
under powered. the vender chose Java because the Java runtime envornment is very portable. however there is a scaling issue. Many times the applications that we write are scaled after the fact. 

I run across a lot of schools that get hammered on the web because the Java processes are not running fast enough. 

I still hold on to my old 286 development standard, If you can make a process run fast on a 286 PC then that is good code. 

I love OO it does every thing that I need it to, almost (Visio: another thread.). It does take a while to load. 



David C. Lane 


________________________________
From: Jonathan Billings <billings at negate.org>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Thu, February 18, 2010 8:28:44 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Office failures

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 12:46:06AM -0500, Michael Corral wrote:
>
> 2010-02-17, Monsieur David Lane a ecrit:
> > Back to Open Office, when it runs into trouble are the JAVA resources
> > an issue?
> 
> What "JAVA resources" are you talking about? Open Office is not a
> Java application.

One of the first things I do when I use OpenOffice on a new system is
turn off Java:

Just go to the Tools menu -> Options, then click on the "Java" subitem
under "OpenOffice.org" and unclick the "Use a java runtime
environment".? 

I've found it speeds up OpenOffice applications.? (although this might
not be the case anymore with faster computers)

-- 
Jonathan Billings <billings at negate.org>
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 18 08:54:40 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 05:54:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] i7 i5 or i3
Message-ID: <149906.30660.qm@web37902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Can anyone share their?performance experence with the latest Intel i7, i5, or i3.
?
David C. Lane 


      


From dand at zifferent.net  Thu Feb 18 09:03:11 2010
From: dand at zifferent.net (Dan DeSloover)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:03:11 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <401343.64100.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>
	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>
	<826576.32197.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<b02c40e91002171058s5beaad77m3ad2914bfb93d39f@mail.gmail.com>
	<403101.37185.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1002180043420.2337@banana.sluggo.net>
	<20100218132843.GC2337@caen-gx755.engin.umich.edu>
	<401343.64100.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <24156.12.107.188.5.1266501791.squirrel@www.zifferent.net>

I've been using Open Office Draw as a Visio replacement, and it isn't half
bad. Certainly better than Kivio or Dia. It could use some refinement, but
it's the best I have on my Linux systems.

David Lane wrote:
> I will look at that.
>
> I'm a fan of compiling to binary.
>
> Some of the backgound resources in Education Admin Systems (Datatel) have
> Java elements that bog down the servers and the hardware is
> under powered. the vender chose Java because the Java runtime envornment
> is very portable. however there is a scaling issue. Many times the
> applications that we write are scaled after the fact.
>
> I run across a lot of schools that get hammered on the web because the
> Java processes are not running fast enough.
>
> I still hold on to my old 286 development standard, If you can make a
> process run fast on a 286 PC then that is good code.
>
> I love OO it does every thing that I need it to, almost (Visio: another
> thread.). It does take a while to load.
>
>
>
> David C. Lane
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Jonathan Billings <billings at negate.org>
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Sent: Thu, February 18, 2010 8:28:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Open Office failures
>
> On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 12:46:06AM -0500, Michael Corral wrote:
>>
>> 2010-02-17, Monsieur David Lane a ecrit:
>> > Back to Open Office, when it runs into trouble are the JAVA resources
>> > an issue?
>>
>> What "JAVA resources" are you talking about? Open Office is not a
>> Java application.
>
> One of the first things I do when I use OpenOffice on a new system is
> turn off Java:
>
> Just go to the Tools menu -> Options, then click on the "Java" subitem
> under "OpenOffice.org" and unclick the "Use a java runtime
> environment".?
>
> I've found it speeds up OpenOffice applications.? (although this might
> not be the case anymore with faster computers)
>
> --
> Jonathan Billings <billings at negate.org>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


----
Dan DeSloover



From dand at zifferent.net  Thu Feb 18 09:05:01 2010
From: dand at zifferent.net (Dan DeSloover)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:05:01 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] i7 i5 or i3
In-Reply-To: <149906.30660.qm@web37902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <149906.30660.qm@web37902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <29260.12.107.188.5.1266501901.squirrel@www.zifferent.net>


Recent article:
http://techreport.com/articles.x/18448

taken from Slashdot:
http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/10/02/16/2212220/Todays-Best-CPUs-Compared-To-a-Pentium-4?art_pos=1

David Lane wrote:
> Can anyone share their?performance experence with the latest Intel i7, i5,
> or i3.
> ?
> David C. Lane
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


----
Dan DeSloover



From gib at juno.com  Thu Feb 18 14:36:18 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:36:18 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] i7 i5 or i3
Message-ID: <20100218.143618.4864.1@webmail24.vgs.untd.com>

 
You may want to look at TomsHardware.com  they do a lot of benchmarks of CPUs.

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Dan DeSloover" <dand at zifferent.net>
To: "MDLUG's Main discussion list" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: Re: [mdlug] i7 i5 or i3
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:05:01 -0500 (EST)


Recent article:
http://techreport.com/articles.x/18448

taken from Slashdot:
http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/10/02/16/2212220/Todays-Best-CPUs-Compared-To-a-Pentium-4?art_pos=1

David Lane wrote:
> Can anyone share their performance experence with the latest Intel i7, i5,
> or i3.
>  
> David C. Lane
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


----
Dan DeSloover

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
____________________________________________________________
Small Business Tools
Click to find the latest solutions to enhance your small business.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=cmNgoqC5AZOII0UaMkK8SwAAJz07QkQODMrtXujsdlflQzfUAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARMQAAAAA=


From carl at carltm.com  Fri Feb 19 06:56:14 2010
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 06:56:14 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] used servers for sale?
In-Reply-To: <37D4713C-F030-45DB-B6F6-56F08200CB27@gmail.com>
References: <a541d060071f6bb618a43fd9f364136f.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
	<37D4713C-F030-45DB-B6F6-56F08200CB27@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <62ffd683d725913734cfebce5049c3a5.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

Thanks.  I was very impressed by their website, and
they had exactly what I wanted for less than I had
budgeted.  I'm happy.

c


stuart munro wrote:
> I use a company called stallard technologies
>
> http://www.stikc.com/
>
> I deal with matt crall he is a good  guy..
>
>
> On Feb 18, 2010, at 6:01 AM, Carl T. Miller wrote:
>
>> I often use older servers for projects and this is the
>> first time I need something better than what I have on
>> hand.  I'm setting up a private cloud (yeah, I know that's
>> an oxymoron) and need two or three servers with a little
>> horsepower.  Where are the good sources of 1 to 3 year
>> old servers?
>>
>> c
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mdlug mailing list
>> mdlug at mdlug.org
>> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>




From robert.citek at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 12:35:19 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:35:19 -0700
Subject: [mdlug] AT&T DSL -- ity, bitty rant
Message-ID: <4145b6791002190935j73f35a1bn26f1df70d04cdb8b@mail.gmail.com>

I just had AT&T DSL installed in my house.  What was different is that
I got the dry-loop, the kind that does not require phone service nor
do I need the filters as the jacks wouldn't be used for phones.  The
house was wired via a line splitter to go to three jacks in the house,
one in each of three rooms: kitchen, family room, and master bedroom.
The line splitter is in the basement and was not the modular kind but
rather the old screw-post kind.  What amazes me is that the tech from
AT&T cut the wires to all the jacks and then connected the kitchen
wires to the incoming line with wire connectors.  And not the screw
kind connectors, but the crimp kind.  Unlike the other jacks in the
house, the kitchen jack is a mounted at about shoulder level on a bare
wall with no shelf nor counter nor power outlet.  So now I have a
phone cable snaking across the wall and wall edges to the closest
power outlet about 15 feet away in the dining room instead of
someplace less conspicuous, e.g. the family room next to the
entertainment system.

Sure, I could go in the basement, splice cable, and rewire things the
way they should be, but I shouldn't have to.  That's like going to a
restaurant expecting good service and food, getting served a
half-baked chicken pot pie, and having to take the pie back into the
kitchen to finish baking it myself.

What's odd is that I have had AT&T DSL in the past.  Never had an
issue.  At that time I also had phone service on the same line, so
cutting wires wouldn't make sense.

Why would the AT&T tech cut the wires to the other rooms?  And if he
had to cut wires and had to choose, why didn't he ask me (I was in the
house the entire time)?  And if he would not ask, why keep the wires
live that lead to the most inconvenient place to put a DSL modem?

Mind boggling.

Regards,
- Robert


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 13:01:28 2010
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:01:28 -0700
Subject: [mdlug] lightning talks?
Message-ID: <4145b6791002191001t5c7cbd52o66c5383457b8ad4b@mail.gmail.com>

I was browsing the YAPC::NA 2010 site (it's in Columbus, OH, June 21-23):

http://conferences.mongueurs.net/yn2010/

and noticed they have lightning talks again on the schedule.

Has mdlug ever had lightning talks for one of its meetings?  If so,
when are the next lightning talks scheduled?  For more info on
lightning talks:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_Talk

Regards,
- Robert


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 12:50:00 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 12:50:00 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] AT&T DSL -- ity, bitty rant
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791002190935j73f35a1bn26f1df70d04cdb8b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4145b6791002190935j73f35a1bn26f1df70d04cdb8b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B7ECF48.5070800@gmail.com>

Robert Citek wrote:
> I just had AT&T DSL installed in my house.  What was different is that
> I got the dry-loop, the kind that does not require phone service nor
> do I need the filters as the jacks wouldn't be used for phones.  The
> house was wired via a line splitter to go to three jacks in the house,
> one in each of three rooms: kitchen, family room, and master bedroom.
> The line splitter is in the basement and was not the modular kind but
> rather the old screw-post kind.  What amazes me is that the tech from
> AT&T cut the wires to all the jacks and then connected the kitchen
> wires to the incoming line with wire connectors.  And not the screw
> kind connectors, but the crimp kind.  Unlike the other jacks in the
> house, the kitchen jack is a mounted at about shoulder level on a bare
> wall with no shelf nor counter nor power outlet.  So now I have a
> phone cable snaking across the wall and wall edges to the closest
> power outlet about 15 feet away in the dining room instead of
> someplace less conspicuous, e.g. the family room next to the
> entertainment system.
> 
> Sure, I could go in the basement, splice cable, and rewire things the
> way they should be, but I shouldn't have to.  That's like going to a
> restaurant expecting good service and food, getting served a
> half-baked chicken pot pie, and having to take the pie back into the
> kitchen to finish baking it myself.
> 
> What's odd is that I have had AT&T DSL in the past.  Never had an
> issue.  At that time I also had phone service on the same line, so
> cutting wires wouldn't make sense.
> 
> Why would the AT&T tech cut the wires to the other rooms?  And if he
> had to cut wires and had to choose, why didn't he ask me (I was in the
> house the entire time)?  And if he would not ask, why keep the wires
> live that lead to the most inconvenient place to put a DSL modem?
> 
> Mind boggling.

1. Call AT&T and ask why they did that.
2. Then explain that the current situation is less than acceptable
3. And lastly, ask what they will do to make you happy.

Maybe they'll give you a month of free service or something
to compensate you for having to repair your indoor wiring.
[AT&T can do whatever they want to the outdoor wiring, and
will do whatever, without charging you, but repairing indoor
wiring, they charge you -- likewise, if they damage indoor
wiring, they are liable for the repair thereof.]


From gib at juno.com  Fri Feb 19 13:48:45 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:48:45 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  lightning talks?
Message-ID: <20100219.134845.26070.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>

 
Yes, we had lightning talks the past meeting.  We will be doing talks every month.
Gee, perhaps we should send out a note about them.
I did a short talk about something this past month that was recorded at "MUG.org" meeting that I then repeated at the "MDLUG.org" meeting.  It was about BerkeleyTIP, another group of people who enjoy technical topics.


---------- Original Message ----------
From: Robert Citek <robert.citek at gmail.com>
To: "MDLUG's Main discussion list" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: [mdlug] lightning talks?
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:01:28 -0700

I was browsing the YAPC::NA 2010 site (it's in Columbus, OH, June 21-23):

http://conferences.mongueurs.net/yn2010/

and noticed they have lightning talks again on the schedule.

Has mdlug ever had lightning talks for one of its meetings?  If so,
when are the next lightning talks scheduled?  For more info on
lightning talks:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_Talk

Regards,
- Robert
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

____________________________________________________________
Weight Loss Program
Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=PBIaDLm9pMrrMk9pxVGizgAAJz07QkQODMrtXujsdlflQzfUAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEUgAAAAA=


From gib at juno.com  Fri Feb 19 13:51:50 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:51:50 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  AT&T DSL -- ity, bitty rant
Message-ID: <20100219.135150.26070.1@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>

 
Yeah, when the AT&T tech installed my DSL he reused an old wire. He connected the wire from the DSL modem to my other phone lines backwards (from the phones to the DSL - okay that's hard to explain).

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: Re: [mdlug] AT&T DSL -- ity, bitty rant
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 12:50:00 -0500

Robert Citek wrote:
> I just had AT&T DSL installed in my house.  What was different is that
> I got the dry-loop, the kind that does not require phone service nor
> do I need the filters as the jacks wouldn't be used for phones.  The
> house was wired via a line splitter to go to three jacks in the house,
> one in each of three rooms: kitchen, family room, and master bedroom.
> The line splitter is in the basement and was not the modular kind but
> rather the old screw-post kind.  What amazes me is that the tech from
> AT&T cut the wires to all the jacks and then connected the kitchen
> wires to the incoming line with wire connectors.  And not the screw
> kind connectors, but the crimp kind.  Unlike the other jacks in the
> house, the kitchen jack is a mounted at about shoulder level on a bare
> wall with no shelf nor counter nor power outlet.  So now I have a
> phone cable snaking across the wall and wall edges to the closest
> power outlet about 15 feet away in the dining room instead of
> someplace less conspicuous, e.g. the family room next to the
> entertainment system.
> 
> Sure, I could go in the basement, splice cable, and rewire things the
> way they should be, but I shouldn't have to.  That's like going to a
> restaurant expecting good service and food, getting served a
> half-baked chicken pot pie, and having to take the pie back into the
> kitchen to finish baking it myself.
> 
> What's odd is that I have had AT&T DSL in the past.  Never had an
> issue.  At that time I also had phone service on the same line, so
> cutting wires wouldn't make sense.
> 
> Why would the AT&T tech cut the wires to the other rooms?  And if he
> had to cut wires and had to choose, why didn't he ask me (I was in the
> house the entire time)?  And if he would not ask, why keep the wires
> live that lead to the most inconvenient place to put a DSL modem?
> 
> Mind boggling.

1. Call AT&T and ask why they did that.
2. Then explain that the current situation is less than acceptable
3. And lastly, ask what they will do to make you happy.

Maybe they'll give you a month of free service or something
to compensate you for having to repair your indoor wiring.
[AT&T can do whatever they want to the outdoor wiring, and
will do whatever, without charging you, but repairing indoor
wiring, they charge you -- likewise, if they damage indoor
wiring, they are liable for the repair thereof.]
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

____________________________________________________________
Senior Assisted Living
Put your loved ones in good hands with quality senior assisted living. Click now!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=pwoJ9TGjcDiInDPFzdFJTgAAJz07QkQODMrtXujsdlflQzfUAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASUQAAAAA=


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 23:52:57 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:52:57 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] lightning talks?
In-Reply-To: <4145b6791002191001t5c7cbd52o66c5383457b8ad4b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4145b6791002191001t5c7cbd52o66c5383457b8ad4b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B7F6AA9.4040408@gmail.com>

Robert Citek wrote:
> I was browsing the YAPC::NA 2010 site (it's in Columbus, OH, June 21-23):
> 
> http://conferences.mongueurs.net/yn2010/
> 
> and noticed they have lightning talks again on the schedule.
> 
> Has mdlug ever had lightning talks for one of its meetings?  If so,
> when are the next lightning talks scheduled?  For more info on
> lightning talks:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_Talk

When I go to a conference, I want presentations which explain
things deeply enough that I can get up and running with the
new idea.

The LAST thing I want at a conference is a bunch of 5-minute
presentations which cannot possibly go into a subject any
deeper than the typical article on arstechnica

In other words, as far as I'm concerned, the "Lightning Talk"
is a 25-cent word for a waste of the limited and valuable
space at a conference.


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 23:59:45 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:59:45 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] lightning talks?
In-Reply-To: <4B7F6AA9.4040408@gmail.com>
References: <4145b6791002191001t5c7cbd52o66c5383457b8ad4b@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B7F6AA9.4040408@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B7F6C41.7080500@gmail.com>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> Robert Citek wrote:
>> I was browsing the YAPC::NA 2010 site (it's in Columbus, OH, June 21-23):
>>
>> http://conferences.mongueurs.net/yn2010/
>>
>> and noticed they have lightning talks again on the schedule.
>>
>> Has mdlug ever had lightning talks for one of its meetings?  If so,
>> when are the next lightning talks scheduled?  For more info on
>> lightning talks:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_Talk
> 
> When I go to a conference, I want presentations which explain
> things deeply enough that I can get up and running with the
> new idea.
> 
> The LAST thing I want at a conference is a bunch of 5-minute
> presentations which cannot possibly go into a subject any
> deeper than the typical article on arstechnica
> 
> In other words, as far as I'm concerned, the "Lightning Talk"
> is a 25-cent word for a waste of the limited and valuable
> space at a conference.


Ooops, you were talking about meetings.  This being
Penguicon-planning season, and your original context
of conferences, I thought you were asking if we were
doing this at Penguicon.

A 5-10 minute presentation at a regular meeting is an ok
thing (I have NO idea why conference planners such as those
at YAPC::NA would include such things).


From jbroughton at twmi.rr.com  Sun Feb 21 19:57:38 2010
From: jbroughton at twmi.rr.com (Jim Broughton)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 19:57:38 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Open Office failures
In-Reply-To: <4B7C4E42.6010305@wowway.com>
References: <4B7C14A5.8040307@wowway.com>	<20100217163939.23D6D4C051@impelind.com>	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690220B1697E@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>	<4B7C30BD.4070708@ameritech.net>	<826576.32197.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<b02c40e91002171058s5beaad77m3ad2914bfb93d39f@mail.gmail.com>	<403101.37185.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4B7C4E42.6010305@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <4B81D682.1070505@twmi.rr.com>

Control + alt + esc   this is the xwindows kde  program kill sequence. 
When you do it you should get
a skull and crossbones icon in place of your mouse pointer. Move it over 
the offending
window and click the left mouse button. Enjoy the death of your 
offending program.

Jim



Garry Stahl wrote:
> David Lane wrote:
>   
>> I remembered that But I was not sure the one that asked nicely.  
>>
>> Back to Open Office, when it runs into trouble are the JAVA resources an issue?
>>
>>
>>   
>>     
> I couldn't tell you and would not know how to check.  The symptom is a
> total lock of Open Office.  Can't do anything with it can't close it. 
> The rest of the computer sails along without a hitch.  I just have one
> desktop I can't do anything with.  I usually end up ending the session. 
> That does clear it out.
>
> Java problems?  Would not surprise me.  Java is the weak link in OO.
>
>
>   



From petertheplumber at att.net  Sun Feb 21 21:04:32 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:04:32 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Gutted APC Battery Backups Free to Good Home
Message-ID: <1266804272.17211.1104.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

Hello Everyone,
	I have one ancient Back-UPS 250 that appears to be in working order;
other than the battery, and one late model Back-UPS XS 900 that is not.
The 250 works fine as a surge arrestor, but since the battery will no
longer hold a charge it won't provide power by itself. The 900 was
hopelessy overloaded by yours truly and now randomly indicates overload
condition, despite having nothing plugged into it. It also no longer has
a battery in it, I took that and rejuvenated another ancient Back-UPS I
have. Both units are going to be recycled unless someone wants them for
parts.
-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber



From jbroughton at twmi.rr.com  Sun Feb 21 21:27:56 2010
From: jbroughton at twmi.rr.com (Jim Broughton)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:27:56 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Gutted APC Battery Backups Free to Good Home
In-Reply-To: <1266804272.17211.1104.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
References: <1266804272.17211.1104.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <4B81EBAC.4020200@twmi.rr.com>

Why not replace the battery in the 250. take it to
Batteries Plus and get a replacement. It will be
a lot less expensive than buying a new battery
from the manufacturer of the UPS unit.

Jim



Peter Bart wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
> 	I have one ancient Back-UPS 250 that appears to be in working order;
> other than the battery, and one late model Back-UPS XS 900 that is not.
> The 250 works fine as a surge arrestor, but since the battery will no
> longer hold a charge it won't provide power by itself. The 900 was
> hopelessy overloaded by yours truly and now randomly indicates overload
> condition, despite having nothing plugged into it. It also no longer has
> a battery in it, I took that and rejuvenated another ancient Back-UPS I
> have. Both units are going to be recycled unless someone wants them for
> parts.
>   



From tesral at wowway.com  Sun Feb 21 21:30:14 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:30:14 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Gutted APC Battery Backups Free to Good Home
In-Reply-To: <1266804272.17211.1104.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
References: <1266804272.17211.1104.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <4B81EC36.6080102@wowway.com>

Peter Bart wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
> 	I have one ancient Back-UPS 250 that appears to be in working order;
> other than the battery, and one late model Back-UPS XS 900 that is not.
> The 250 works fine as a surge arrestor, but since the battery will no
> longer hold a charge it won't provide power by itself. The 900 was
> hopelessy overloaded by yours truly and now randomly indicates overload
> condition, despite having nothing plugged into it. It also no longer has
> a battery in it, I took that and rejuvenated another ancient Back-UPS I
> have. Both units are going to be recycled unless someone wants them for
> parts.
>   


What is the wattage on the units?  I will buy batteries if they can be
changed.  I've had a UPS where they made it damn near impossible.  I
need a UPS of 600 watts or better.  Maestro has no backup.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? -Mohandas K. Gandhi  
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From petertheplumber at att.net  Sun Feb 21 22:05:12 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 22:05:12 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Gutted APC Battery Backups Free to Good Home
In-Reply-To: <4B81EC36.6080102@wowway.com>
References: <1266804272.17211.1104.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
	<4B81EC36.6080102@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <1266807912.17211.1111.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

On Sun, 2010-02-21 at 21:30 -0500, Garry Stahl wrote:
> Peter Bart wrote:
> > Hello Everyone,
> > 	I have one ancient Back-UPS 250 that appears to be in working order;
> > other than the battery, and one late model Back-UPS XS 900 that is not.
> > The 250 works fine as a surge arrestor, but since the battery will no
> > longer hold a charge it won't provide power by itself. The 900 was
> > hopelessy overloaded by yours truly and now randomly indicates overload
> > condition, despite having nothing plugged into it. It also no longer has
> > a battery in it, I took that and rejuvenated another ancient Back-UPS I
> > have. Both units are going to be recycled unless someone wants them for
> > parts.
> >   
> 
> 
> What is the wattage on the units?  I will buy batteries if they can be
> changed.  I've had a UPS where they made it damn near impossible.  I
> need a UPS of 600 watts or better.  Maestro has no backup.
> 

Please note the larger one has issues!!
<http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=AP250>
<http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=BX900>
-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber



From gib at juno.com  Mon Feb 22 09:03:27 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:03:27 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] Summary BTIP meeting today - Re: Invitation,
	today: Global Linux/FSW m	tg. You coming? Sun 21 12N-3P Pac ific
	time
Message-ID: <20100222.090327.18301.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>

 
Some ideas here for collaboration between groups.  
I think it would be fun to see what we can do to involve remote people.
VOIP, IRC and webcast.


---------- Original Message ----------
From: "giovanni_re" <john_re at fastmail.us>
To: "gib at juno.com" <gib at juno.com>
Cc: sean at linux.ucla.edu, jessicamah at jessicamah.com, pacneil at linuxgeek.net, nbs at sonic.net
Subject: Summary BTIP meeting today - Re: Invitation, today: Global Linux/FSW mtg. You coming? Sun 21 12N-3P Pac ific time
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 20:34:37 -0800

On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 00:19:03 GMT, "gib at juno.com" <gib at juno.com> said:
> 
> Sorry, I didn't see this until just now.  

no problem - I know I got it out on short notice. ;)  Everyone is invited to join in every meeting. :)  Because I'm short on time, though i often wish to get announcements out early, I'm often unable to.  So, you can put the future dates into your calendar, & you'll know when the upcoming meetings are. :)
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/schedule


BTW, Bill & Neil & I were on IRC today.  I didn't have time to get up to campus & use voip.  Bill & Neil gave the standard moan & groan i'm used to hearing about how they like IRC & not voip.  I gave them my standard reply: they're so last millennium. ;)

Neil (who teaches linux classes online, using voip, & has an asterisk server!) mentioned how he doesn't like being tied to the computer by a headset for 15 minutes.  I suggested a bluetooth headset can solve that. :)

Hopefully Bill & Neil will be voip ready for next meeting (& mee too! ;) :) )

> 
> The presentation when well at MUG.org. I also did the presentation at
> mdlug.org.

I'd love to hear more about that. :)  Maybe at next btip meeting, Tuesday march 2, 8 days from today.  I'd like to find out if mug or mdlug are interested in having voip meetings there locally.  It would be great if they would schedule meetings simultaneous with BTIP, then everyone could join in.  --  & how did it come up as an idea to give a talk about the BTIP global voice meetings???  What was the inspiration, & the goal/purpose for that talk?  To just learn something new, or maybe to try to do your own voice meetings??

Also, in the MUG list, iirc, there was something about wanting to arrange speakers for live talks.  If everyone meets at the same time, there is less work to do for everyone, in total, in arranging speakers.  Or, in finding talk videos.  I don't currently have time to reliably find & list talks 1 week ahead of each month.  So, working together, & distributing that task, will enable a more reliable feed of talks to all our members. :)
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/talk-videos

I'll email mdlug & mug about that (ii can make time ;) ).

(er, actually, there's a special Lawrence Lessig meeting this Thursday, 3-430pm Pacific. everyone is welcome to join in. :)  )

==
I hope you all can join in at the next meeting, Tues eve mar 2.

:)

____________________________________________________________
Nutrition
Improve your career health. Click now to study nutrition!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=3MThlpBW4wx96Gok82TCIwAAJz07QkQODMrtXujsdlflQzfUAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASQwAAAAA=


From gib at juno.com  Mon Feb 22 20:05:33 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 01:05:33 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] Penguicon Party Room for MDLUG.org MUG.org
Message-ID: <20100222.200533.28147.0@webmail09.vgs.untd.com>

 Penguicon Party Room for MDLUG.org MUG.org
Penguicon Party Room for MDLUG.org SEMCO.org

We've reserved a party room for Penguicon.org 2010 for the MDLUG.org and SEMCO.org groups.

____________________________________________________________
Small Business Tools
Click to find the latest solutions to enhance your small business.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=0YApllVVrAOVH_TZg0j_ywAAJz07QkQODMrtXujsdlflQzfUAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARMQAAAAA=


From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Tue Feb 23 23:24:24 2010
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 23:24:24 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] nVidia SATA BIOS RAID
Message-ID: <16673920.1266985465196.JavaMail.root@elwamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

I have a Dell desktop system that I put into service as a server.
It has 3 SATA 640GB drives.
2 of the drives are setup as RAID1 leveraging the nVidia BIOS.  As you can see below, the system recognizes the RAID volume for /boot (notice the strange device name it assigns), the other filesystems (not shown) are under LVM control or standard partitioning (e.g. /dev/sdc1).  Also, there is a sata_nv driver that is loaded.

mike at serv1:~> df -h /boot
Filesystem            Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/mapper/nvidia_feggjfad_part1
                       69M   20M   46M  30% /boot

mike at serv1:~> lsmod | grep sata
sata_nv                21588  4
libata                161216  1 sata_nv

My question is simply, how do I query the status of the RAID set from the OS?  Since it is not actually software raid, I can't query /proc/mdstat.  I've poked around /proc quite a bit, but can't seem to find anything that looks helpful.  The OS can definetly see all 3 drives.

serv1:/proc/scsi # cat /proc/scsi/scsi
Attached devices:
Host: scsi0 Channel: 00 Id: 00 Lun: 00
  Vendor: ATA      Model: WDC WD6401AALS-0 Rev: 01.0
  Type:   Direct-Access                    ANSI  SCSI revision: 05
Host: scsi1 Channel: 00 Id: 00 Lun: 00
  Vendor: ATA      Model: WDC WD6401AALS-0 Rev: 01.0
  Type:   Direct-Access                    ANSI  SCSI revision: 05
Host: scsi2 Channel: 00 Id: 00 Lun: 00
  Vendor: TSSTcorp Model: CDRWDVD TS-H493A Rev: D200
  Type:   CD-ROM                           ANSI  SCSI revision: 05
Host: scsi3 Channel: 00 Id: 00 Lun: 00
  Vendor: ATA      Model: WDC WD6401AALS-0 Rev: 01.0
  Type:   Direct-Access                    ANSI  SCSI revision: 05

So it's not masking the devices from the OS (like some hardware raid controlers might).  From the Google searches that I have done, the nVidia Bios RAID is what is commonly referred to as "fake RAID".  Not a true hardware RAID implementation.  The good news is the OS does recognize the RAID volume that I created from the BIOS, but it would be very helpful to have some sort of utility to query the status of the RAID.

Anybody use this driver (sata_nv) and/or have some suggestions?

-Mike


From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Wed Feb 24 08:50:45 2010
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 08:50:45 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] nVidia SATA BIOS RAID
In-Reply-To: <16673920.1266985465196.JavaMail.root@elwamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <16673920.1266985465196.JavaMail.root@elwamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46902210D4A69@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

I've not used the nVidia RAID controller myself, but with other RAID controllers (Dell PERC, HP cciss), there were utilities that you could build and run that queried the device directly to get statistics and status.  Perhaps nVidia has something similar.

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Michael ORourke
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 11:24 PM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: [mdlug] nVidia SATA BIOS RAID

I have a Dell desktop system that I put into service as a server.
It has 3 SATA 640GB drives.
2 of the drives are setup as RAID1 leveraging the nVidia BIOS.  As you can see below, the system recognizes the RAID volume for /boot (notice the strange device name it assigns), the other filesystems (not shown) are under LVM control or standard partitioning (e.g. /dev/sdc1).  Also, there is a sata_nv driver that is loaded.

mike at serv1:~> df -h /boot
Filesystem            Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/mapper/nvidia_feggjfad_part1
                       69M   20M   46M  30% /boot

mike at serv1:~> lsmod | grep sata
sata_nv                21588  4
libata                161216  1 sata_nv

My question is simply, how do I query the status of the RAID set from the OS?  Since it is not actually software raid, I can't query /proc/mdstat.  I've poked around /proc quite a bit, but can't seem to find anything that looks helpful.  The OS can definetly see all 3 drives.

serv1:/proc/scsi # cat /proc/scsi/scsi
Attached devices:
Host: scsi0 Channel: 00 Id: 00 Lun: 00
  Vendor: ATA      Model: WDC WD6401AALS-0 Rev: 01.0
  Type:   Direct-Access                    ANSI  SCSI revision: 05
Host: scsi1 Channel: 00 Id: 00 Lun: 00
  Vendor: ATA      Model: WDC WD6401AALS-0 Rev: 01.0
  Type:   Direct-Access                    ANSI  SCSI revision: 05
Host: scsi2 Channel: 00 Id: 00 Lun: 00
  Vendor: TSSTcorp Model: CDRWDVD TS-H493A Rev: D200
  Type:   CD-ROM                           ANSI  SCSI revision: 05
Host: scsi3 Channel: 00 Id: 00 Lun: 00
  Vendor: ATA      Model: WDC WD6401AALS-0 Rev: 01.0
  Type:   Direct-Access                    ANSI  SCSI revision: 05

So it's not masking the devices from the OS (like some hardware raid controlers might).  From the Google searches that I have done, the nVidia Bios RAID is what is commonly referred to as "fake RAID".  Not a true hardware RAID implementation.  The good news is the OS does recognize the RAID volume that I created from the BIOS, but it would be very helpful to have some sort of utility to query the status of the RAID.

Anybody use this driver (sata_nv) and/or have some suggestions?

-Mike
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From gib at juno.com  Wed Feb 24 09:13:17 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 14:13:17 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] Fw: Agile Meeting
Message-ID: <20100224.091317.16405.1@webmail15.vgs.untd.com>

 
Opps, misspelled the email address.

---------- Forwarded Message ----------
From: "gib at juno.com" <gib at juno.com>
To: mdlub at mdlug.org,  discuss at mug.org
Subject: Agile Meeting
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 14:12:05 GMT


 
Agile is a process based app roch to managing IT work that stresses flexible quick phases. A meeting is set for each month for a group in the area:
http://agileenthusiasts.ning.com/events/mae-february-meeting
____________________________________________________________
Weight Loss Program
Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=AzKI0EKibYGhAcjw09dfcgAAJz07QkQODMrtXujsdlflQzfUAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEUgAAAAA=


From gib at juno.com  Wed Feb 24 20:39:30 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 01:39:30 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] penguicon ribbons for MDLUG.org
Message-ID: <20100224.203930.17087.0@webmail05.vgs.untd.com>


Do you have the old information for the ribbons for MDLUG.org? Or do we need to provide a fresh copy?

____________________________________________________________
Love Spell
Click here to light up your life with a love spell!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=5hVU_D3uMgk9Rg6oIcV9_AAAJz07QkQODMrtXujsdlflQzfUAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARwAAAAA=


From rkannan at peoplepc.com  Wed Feb 24 21:43:16 2010
From: rkannan at peoplepc.com (R. Kannan)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:43:16 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: [mdlug] Problems with the flash plug in install files
Message-ID: <8372501.1267065797250.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Hello,

I tried installing the latest flash plugin from install files at adobe site (as youtube seems to require the latest flash plugin now). First I tried the rpm version. It updated the following file

/usr/lib/flash-plugin/libflashplayer.so

with a new version with the datestamp 1/26/2010. This file is the target of the link from firefox/plugins directory.I restarted the browser again. No cigar with youtube. 

Next I tried the tar.gz file. Unzipping the file produced the same file with the same size/datestamp as above. It did not create a directory as given in the instructions at the Adobe site. Still no luck with youtube which keeps directing me to the adobe site.

Any ideas?

Thanks


________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 21:52:37 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:52:37 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Problems with the flash plug in install files
In-Reply-To: <8372501.1267065797250.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <8372501.1267065797250.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <b02c40e91002241852y3c5429d0uc0c6ceb64940f0a1@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 9:43 PM, R. Kannan <rkannan at peoplepc.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I tried installing the latest flash plugin from install files at adobe site (as youtube seems to require the latest flash plugin now). First I tried the rpm version. It updated the following file
>
> /usr/lib/flash-plugin/libflashplayer.so
>
> with a new version with the datestamp 1/26/2010. This file is the target of the link from firefox/plugins directory.I restarted the browser again. No cigar with youtube.
>
> Next I tried the tar.gz file. Unzipping the file produced the same file with the same size/datestamp as above. It did not create a directory as given in the instructions at the Adobe site. Still no luck with youtube which keeps directing me to the adobe site.
>

Which distro?
See if it shows up in Firefox by going to address: about:plugins


From raymond.s.mclaughlin at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 21:48:19 2010
From: raymond.s.mclaughlin at gmail.com (Raymond S McLaughlin)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:48:19 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Problems with the flash plug in install files
In-Reply-To: <8372501.1267065797250.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <8372501.1267065797250.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4B85E4F3.1080708@gmail.com>

R. Kannan wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I tried installing the latest flash plugin from install files at adobe site (as youtube seems to require the latest flash plugin now). First I tried the rpm version. It updated the following file
> 
> /usr/lib/flash-plugin/libflashplayer.so
> 
> with a new version with the datestamp 1/26/2010. This file is the target of the link from firefox/plugins directory.I restarted the browser again. No cigar with youtube. 
> 
> Next I tried the tar.gz file. Unzipping the file produced the same file with the same size/datestamp as above. It did not create a directory as given in the instructions at the Adobe site. Still no luck with youtube which keeps directing me to the adobe site.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Thanks


Look at the version number for the flash plugin shown at the URL:
about:plugins

I recall finding more than one version on a machine once, and the wrong
one was being run. I don't recall the details, but if you search your
system you might find more than one libflashplayer.so file.

I hope this helps
Raymond McLaughlin


From rkannan at peoplepc.com  Wed Feb 24 22:14:42 2010
From: rkannan at peoplepc.com (R. Kannan)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 22:14:42 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: [mdlug] Problems with the flash plug in install files
Message-ID: <12774738.1267067682819.JavaMail.root@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net>



The distro on the machine is SuSE.

First I checked the version of the plugin. The plugin version for the flash player shows up in 'about:plugins' as '10.0 r15' whereas the Adobe site where I downloaded shows 10.0.45.2 as the latest version that can be downloaded. Not sure why the instructions are so wrong.

Then I found here were two different libflashplayer.so files on the machine. The link

/usr/lib/firefox/plugins/libflashplayer.so is a link that points to /usr/lib/flash-plugin/libflashplayer.so which was updated when I installed.

There is also /usr/lib/firefox/plugins/libflashplayer.so which was older. I updated that file and now about:plugins shows the version as '10.0 r45' but youtube still complains :-(

Thanks for your help.



-----Original Message-----
>From: Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com>
>Sent: Feb 24, 2010 9:52 PM
>To: "R. Kannan" <rkannan at peoplepc.com>, MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>Subject: Re: [mdlug] Problems with the flash plug in install files
>
>On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 9:43 PM, R. Kannan <rkannan at peoplepc.com> wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I tried installing the latest flash plugin from install files at adobe site (as youtube seems to require the latest flash plugin now). First I tried the rpm version. It updated the following file
>>
>> /usr/lib/flash-plugin/libflashplayer.so
>>
>> with a new version with the datestamp 1/26/2010. This file is the target of the link from firefox/plugins directory.I restarted the browser again. No cigar with youtube.
>>
>> Next I tried the tar.gz file. Unzipping the file produced the same file with the same size/datestamp as above. It did not create a directory as given in the instructions at the Adobe site. Still no luck with youtube which keeps directing me to the adobe site.
>>
>
>Which distro?
>See if it shows up in Firefox by going to address: about:plugins


________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com


From tesral at wowway.com  Wed Feb 24 22:28:28 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 22:28:28 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Problems with the flash plug in install files
In-Reply-To: <4B85E4F3.1080708@gmail.com>
References: <8372501.1267065797250.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<4B85E4F3.1080708@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B85EE5C.1010001@wowway.com>

Raymond S McLaughlin wrote:
> Look at the version number for the flash plugin shown at the URL:
> about:plugins
>
> I recall finding more than one version on a machine once, and the wrong
> one was being run. I don't recall the details, but if you search your
> system you might find more than one libflashplayer.so file.
>
>   
It was mine if I recall.  The solution was to delete both ,and run the
install on the latest version.


-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? -Mohandas K. Gandhi  
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From set at pobox.com  Thu Feb 25 02:59:36 2010
From: set at pobox.com (Paul)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 02:59:36 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Problems with the flash plug in install files
In-Reply-To: <12774738.1267067682819.JavaMail.root@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <12774738.1267067682819.JavaMail.root@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20100225075935.GN3151@squish.home.loc>

"R. Kannan" <rkannan at peoplepc.com>, on Wed Feb 24, 2010 [10:14:42 PM] said:
> 
> There is also /usr/lib/firefox/plugins/libflashplayer.so which was older. I updated that file and now about:plugins shows the version as '10.0 r45' but youtube still complains :-(
> 
> Thanks for your help.
> 

	Hi;

	Hmm... my flash version reports as '10.0 r42' and the half
dozen random clips on youtube.com I clicked on worked fine. (for
whatever values of 'fine' flash ever works...)
	Do you have some sort of flash or cookie hate enabled?
Can you give a specific link to some flash content that does not
work?

Paul
set at pobox.com


From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Thu Feb 25 07:37:21 2010
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:37:21 -0600 (GMT-06:00)
Subject: [mdlug] nVidia SATA BIOS RAID
Message-ID: <25346150.1267101441936.JavaMail.root@mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

I was thinking the same thing, but so far I haven't found anything yet.  I probably should have done a little more research before using the nVidia drivers.


-----Original Message-----
>From: "Wojtak, Greg" <GregWojtak at quickenloans.com>
>Sent: Feb 24, 2010 7:50 AM
>To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>Subject: Re: [mdlug] nVidia SATA BIOS RAID
>
>I've not used the nVidia RAID controller myself, but with other RAID controllers (Dell PERC, HP cciss), there were utilities that you could build and run that queried the device directly to get statistics and status.  Perhaps nVidia has something similar.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Michael ORourke
>Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 11:24 PM
>To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
>Subject: [mdlug] nVidia SATA BIOS RAID
>
>I have a Dell desktop system that I put into service as a server.
>It has 3 SATA 640GB drives.
>2 of the drives are setup as RAID1 leveraging the nVidia BIOS.  As you can see below, the system recognizes the RAID volume for /boot (notice the strange device name it assigns), the other filesystems (not shown) are under LVM control or standard partitioning (e.g. /dev/sdc1).  Also, there is a sata_nv driver that is loaded.
>
>mike at serv1:~> df -h /boot
>Filesystem            Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
>/dev/mapper/nvidia_feggjfad_part1
>                       69M   20M   46M  30% /boot
>
>mike at serv1:~> lsmod | grep sata
>sata_nv                21588  4
>libata                161216  1 sata_nv
>
>My question is simply, how do I query the status of the RAID set from the OS?  Since it is not actually software raid, I can't query /proc/mdstat.  I've poked around /proc quite a bit, but can't seem to find anything that looks helpful.  The OS can definetly see all 3 drives.
>
>serv1:/proc/scsi # cat /proc/scsi/scsi
>Attached devices:
>Host: scsi0 Channel: 00 Id: 00 Lun: 00
>  Vendor: ATA      Model: WDC WD6401AALS-0 Rev: 01.0
>  Type:   Direct-Access                    ANSI  SCSI revision: 05
>Host: scsi1 Channel: 00 Id: 00 Lun: 00
>  Vendor: ATA      Model: WDC WD6401AALS-0 Rev: 01.0
>  Type:   Direct-Access                    ANSI  SCSI revision: 05
>Host: scsi2 Channel: 00 Id: 00 Lun: 00
>  Vendor: TSSTcorp Model: CDRWDVD TS-H493A Rev: D200
>  Type:   CD-ROM                           ANSI  SCSI revision: 05
>Host: scsi3 Channel: 00 Id: 00 Lun: 00
>  Vendor: ATA      Model: WDC WD6401AALS-0 Rev: 01.0
>  Type:   Direct-Access                    ANSI  SCSI revision: 05
>
>So it's not masking the devices from the OS (like some hardware raid controlers might).  From the Google searches that I have done, the nVidia Bios RAID is what is commonly referred to as "fake RAID".  Not a true hardware RAID implementation.  The good news is the OS does recognize the RAID volume that I created from the BIOS, but it would be very helpful to have some sort of utility to query the status of the RAID.
>
>Anybody use this driver (sata_nv) and/or have some suggestions?
>
>-Mike
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From rkannan at peoplepc.com  Thu Feb 25 08:37:56 2010
From: rkannan at peoplepc.com (R. Kannan)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:37:56 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: [mdlug] Problems with the flash plug in install files
Message-ID: <19640590.1267105076212.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net>


I will try it again and report back on any non-working youtube clips this evening when I get back home.

Thanks

-----Original Message-----
>From: Paul <set at pobox.com>
>Sent: Feb 25, 2010 2:59 AM
>To: mdlug at mdlug.org
>Subject: Re: [mdlug] Problems with the flash plug in install files
>
>"R. Kannan" <rkannan at peoplepc.com>, on Wed Feb 24, 2010 [10:14:42 PM] said:
>> 
>> There is also /usr/lib/firefox/plugins/libflashplayer.so which was older. I updated that file and now about:plugins shows the version as '10.0 r45' but youtube still complains :-(
>> 
>> Thanks for your help.
>> 
>
>	Hi;
>
>	Hmm... my flash version reports as '10.0 r42' and the half
>dozen random clips on youtube.com I clicked on worked fine. (for
>whatever values of 'fine' flash ever works...)
>	Do you have some sort of flash or cookie hate enabled?
>Can you give a specific link to some flash content that does not
>work?
>
>Paul
>set at pobox.com
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com


From gib at juno.com  Thu Feb 25 10:28:35 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:28:35 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  Problems with the flash plug in install files
Message-ID: <20100225.102835.29723.0@webmail01.vgs.untd.com>

 
Please note, I noticed a problem with you tube last night that had to do with a file not found message that was resolved by a reload.  So, I'd suggest you some problems are not due to the client.

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "R. Kannan" <rkannan at peoplepc.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>, mdlug at mdlug.org
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Problems with the flash plug in install files
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:37:56 -0500 (GMT-05:00)



I will try it again and report back on any non-working youtube clips this evening when I get back home.

Thanks

-----Original Message-----
>From: Paul <set at pobox.com>
>Sent: Feb 25, 2010 2:59 AM
>To: mdlug at mdlug.org
>Subject: Re: [mdlug] Problems with the flash plug in install files
>
>"R. Kannan" <rkannan at peoplepc.com>, on Wed Feb 24, 2010 [10:14:42 PM] said:
>> 
>> There is also /usr/lib/firefox/plugins/libflashplayer.so which was older. I updated that file and now about:plugins shows the version as '10.0 r45' but youtube still complains :-(
>> 
>> Thanks for your help.
>> 
>
> Hi;
>
> Hmm... my flash version reports as '10.0 r42' and the half
>dozen random clips on youtube.com I clicked on worked fine. (for
>whatever values of 'fine' flash ever works...)
> Do you have some sort of flash or cookie hate enabled?
>Can you give a specific link to some flash content that does not
>work?
>
>Paul
>set at pobox.com
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

____________________________________________________________
Stock Options
Click to learn about options trading and get the latest information.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=TPAwZNBMYpYrCEwGG2BN0QAAJz07QkQODMrtXujsdlflQzfUAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQlgAAAAA=


From rkannan at peoplepc.com  Thu Feb 25 18:53:54 2010
From: rkannan at peoplepc.com (R. Kannan)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:53:54 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: [mdlug] Problems with the flash plug in install files
Message-ID: <8442035.1267142034560.JavaMail.root@mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

I am still having rpoblems with this youtube clip for example,

http://www.youtube.com/watch#playnext=1&playnext_from=TL&videos=_v67h-swVnE&v=NU0KrXeIHl8

BTW, Not sure if it is because of my browser Firefox 3.5.

Thanks
-----Original Message-----
>From: "R. Kannan" <rkannan at peoplepc.com>
>Sent: Feb 25, 2010 8:37 AM
>To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>, mdlug at mdlug.org
>Subject: Re: [mdlug] Problems with the flash plug in install files
>
>
>I will try it again and report back on any non-working youtube clips this evening when I get back home.
>
>Thanks
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Paul <set at pobox.com>
>>Sent: Feb 25, 2010 2:59 AM
>>To: mdlug at mdlug.org
>>Subject: Re: [mdlug] Problems with the flash plug in install files
>>
>>"R. Kannan" <rkannan at peoplepc.com>, on Wed Feb 24, 2010 [10:14:42 PM] said:
>>> 
>>> There is also /usr/lib/firefox/plugins/libflashplayer.so which was older. I updated that file and now about:plugins shows the version as '10.0 r45' but youtube still complains :-(
>>> 
>>> Thanks for your help.
>>> 
>>
>>	Hi;
>>
>>	Hmm... my flash version reports as '10.0 r42' and the half
>>dozen random clips on youtube.com I clicked on worked fine. (for
>>whatever values of 'fine' flash ever works...)
>>	Do you have some sort of flash or cookie hate enabled?
>>Can you give a specific link to some flash content that does not
>>work?
>>
>>Paul
>>set at pobox.com
>>_______________________________________________
>>mdlug mailing list
>>mdlug at mdlug.org
>>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>
>________________________________________
>PeoplePC Online
>A better way to Internet
>http://www.peoplepc.com
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com


From gib at juno.com  Thu Feb 25 20:48:54 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 01:48:54 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] Problems with the flash plug in install files
Message-ID: <20100225.204854.28688.0@webmail01.vgs.untd.com>


Works fine for me.

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "R. Kannan" <rkannan at peoplepc.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Problems with the flash plug in install files
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:53:54 -0500 (GMT-05:00)

I am still having rpoblems with this youtube clip for example,

http://www.youtube.com/watch#playnext=1&playnext_from=TL&videos=_v67h-swVnE&v=NU0KrXeIHl8

BTW, Not sure if it is because of my browser Firefox 3.5.

Thanks
-----Original Message-----
>From: "R. Kannan" <rkannan at peoplepc.com>
>Sent: Feb 25, 2010 8:37 AM
>To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>, mdlug at mdlug.org
>Subject: Re: [mdlug] Problems with the flash plug in install files
>
>
>I will try it again and report back on any non-working youtube clips this evening when I get back home.
>
>Thanks
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Paul <set at pobox.com>
>>Sent: Feb 25, 2010 2:59 AM
>>To: mdlug at mdlug.org
>>Subject: Re: [mdlug] Problems with the flash plug in install files
>>
>>"R. Kannan" <rkannan at peoplepc.com>, on Wed Feb 24, 2010 [10:14:42 PM] said:
>>> 
>>> There is also /usr/lib/firefox/plugins/libflashplayer.so which was older. I updated that file and now about:plugins shows the version as '10.0 r45' but youtube still complains :-(
>>> 
>>> Thanks for your help.
>>> 
>>
>>	Hi;
>>
>>	Hmm... my flash version reports as '10.0 r42' and the half
>>dozen random clips on youtube.com I clicked on worked fine. (for
>>whatever values of 'fine' flash ever works...)
>>	Do you have some sort of flash or cookie hate enabled?
>>Can you give a specific link to some flash content that does not
>>work?
>>
>>Paul
>>set at pobox.com
>>_______________________________________________
>>mdlug mailing list
>>mdlug at mdlug.org
>>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>
>________________________________________
>PeoplePC Online
>A better way to Internet
>http://www.peoplepc.com
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



____________________________________________________________
Get Free Email with Video Mail & Video Chat!
http://www.juno.com/freeemail?refcd=JUTAGOUT1FREM0210


From micorral at comcast.net  Thu Feb 25 22:28:51 2010
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 22:28:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Problems with the flash plug in install files
In-Reply-To: <20100225.204854.28688.0@webmail01.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20100225.204854.28688.0@webmail01.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.1002252223350.2467@banana.sluggo.net>

2010-02-25, Monsieur gib at juno.com a ecrit:
>
> Works fine for me.

Works here too, in Firefox 3.5.1 under Fedora. I would say it works
fine, but I noticed a distinct lack of dancing bears in the video.

Michael


> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: "R. Kannan" <rkannan at peoplepc.com>
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Problems with the flash plug in install files
> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:53:54 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
>
> I am still having rpoblems with this youtube clip for example,
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch#playnext=1&playnext_from=TL&videos=_v67h-swVnE&v=NU0KrXeIHl8


From set at pobox.com  Fri Feb 26 00:22:53 2010
From: set at pobox.com (Paul)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 00:22:53 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Problems with the flash plug in install files
In-Reply-To: <8442035.1267142034560.JavaMail.root@mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <8442035.1267142034560.JavaMail.root@mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20100226052252.GO3151@squish.home.loc>

"R. Kannan" <rkannan at peoplepc.com>, on Thu Feb 25, 2010 [06:53:54 PM] said:
> I am still having rpoblems with this youtube clip for example,
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch#playnext=1&playnext_from=TL&videos=_v67h-swVnE&v=NU0KrXeIHl8
> 
> BTW, Not sure if it is because of my browser Firefox 3.5.
> 
> Thanks
	
	Hi;

	Well, works with seamonkey, arora, and firefox (3.5.6) here.

	Maybe scroll down in about:plugins and look at all your
plugins to make sure something else isnt also trying to handle
flash and 'winning'?

Paul
set at pobox.com


From carl at carltm.com  Fri Feb 26 09:06:17 2010
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:06:17 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Looking for GIMP expert to do a presentation
In-Reply-To: <201001202048.12066.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
References: <201001202048.12066.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <d590ca9cac33e9de23952e862c40321e.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

Stan Green wrote:
> There is an Open Source (i.e. more than just Linux) group starting up at
> Walsh
> College that is looking for people to present.

Stan, is this group open to the public?  Do they have
a website with more info?

c




From petertheplumber at att.net  Fri Feb 26 09:20:41 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:20:41 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Looking for GIMP expert to do a presentation
In-Reply-To: <d590ca9cac33e9de23952e862c40321e.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
References: <201001202048.12066.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
	<d590ca9cac33e9de23952e862c40321e.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <20100226092041.496e0c45@Nokia-N800-43-7>

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:06:17 -0500
"Carl T. Miller" <carl at carltm.com> wrote:

> Stan Green wrote:
> > There is an Open Source (i.e. more than just Linux) group starting
> > up at Walsh
> > College that is looking for people to present.
> 
> Stan, is this group open to the public?  Do they have
> a website with more info?

    I would like to know as well. Specifically I'd like to learn Gimp
    too.
-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber
Sent from a mobile Internet Tablet


From gib at juno.com  Fri Feb 26 13:52:38 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:52:38 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  OT: Looking for GIMP expert to do a presentation
Message-ID: <20100226.135238.20628.0@webmail23.vgs.untd.com>

 
I did a quick walk through of gimp in the mug.org meeting perhaps over a year ago.  Complicated software.  Coll stuff. 

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Peter Bart <petertheplumber at att.net>
To: mdlug at mdlug.org
Subject: Re: [mdlug] OT: Looking for GIMP expert to do a presentation
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:20:41 -0500

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:06:17 -0500
"Carl T. Miller" <carl at carltm.com> wrote:

> Stan Green wrote:
> > There is an Open Source (i.e. more than just Linux) group starting
> > up at Walsh
> > College that is looking for people to present.
> 
> Stan, is this group open to the public?  Do they have
> a website with more info?

   I would like to know as well. Specifically I'd like to learn Gimp
   too.
-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber
Sent from a mobile Internet Tablet
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

____________________________________________________________
Stock Options
Click to learn about options trading and get the latest information.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=2v60E2JCcuDj-DFKsfCbPgAAJz07QkQODMrtXujsdlflQzfUAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQlgAAAAA=


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 14:08:12 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:08:12 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Looking for GIMP expert to do a presentation
In-Reply-To: <20100226.135238.20628.0@webmail23.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20100226.135238.20628.0@webmail23.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <4B881C1C.5040503@gmail.com>

gib at juno.com wrote:
>  
> I did a quick walk through of gimp

groan....


From trevor.jagoda at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 14:19:54 2010
From: trevor.jagoda at gmail.com (Trevor Jagoda)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:19:54 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Looking for GIMP expert to do a presentation
In-Reply-To: <4B881C1C.5040503@gmail.com>
References: <20100226.135238.20628.0@webmail23.vgs.untd.com>
	<4B881C1C.5040503@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5a2d44a91002261119x118443ebwacb725016c32db2f@mail.gmail.com>

A detailed GIMP presentation at PenguiCon would be pretty cool.



On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:

> gib at juno.com wrote:
> >
> > I did a quick walk through of gimp
>
> groan....
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


