From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Thu Dec  2 08:45:18 2010
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 08:45:18 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] pam_mkhomedir and NFS mounted home dirs *update*
References: <C5840664FDFB4E6983BC5C093E464974@homepc>
	<AANLkTikA99WRbTxYwh6uJKYaqwq-YHdK6JfGKyucBHYV@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7F0DDC5BF90148179AFEDB012F207954@homepc>

I found a work around for this issue.  On one of the servers in the 
management zone, I changed the exports to be "no_root_squash", and I added 
the pam_mkhomedir with the correct permissions.  Now the user just needs to 
login to that box first, and the home dirs get created successfully.

-Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeff Hanson" <jhansonxi at gmail.com>
To: "MDLUG's Main discussion list" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 12:24 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] pam_mkhomedir and NFS mounted home dirs


On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 10:54 PM, Michael ORourke
<mrorourke at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Lug Nuts,
>
> While setting up a LDAP server to authenticate user accounts, I decided to
> try and add a centralized NFS /home server too. But when I added the
> pam_mkhomedir directive to the /etc/pam.d/system-auth-ac file, the nfs
> mounted home dirs would get created as user nobody, which caused the
> directory to not be writeable by the user. After a bit of digging, I found
> that if I changed the exported home filesystem attributes from root_squash
> to no_root_squash, then the home dir would get created with the correct
> ownership and the user could now write to their home directory. However,
> for security reasons it is recommended that you do not mount the home
> directories with no_root_squash. So my other work around was to not use
> pam_mkhomedir and just create the home directories on the nfs server at 
> the
> same time I add an account in LDAP.
> I'm curious if anyone else has run into this problem before?
>

I think the issue with no_root_squash is that it is easy for anyone to
become root on another PC and connect as such to the export with the
default authentication (IP/UID).  They could just as easily connect as
an allowed UID and cause just as much damage unless everything is
root-owned non-writable.  If you are restricting it to use some real
authentication then it's not a problem.

On Ubuntu 9.10 with an 9.04 server I'm using root_squash for
everything except a tftp server root and /export pseudo-fs.  I've got
everything explicitly exported on separate dirs but that's probably
unnecessary with /export.  I'm just using libpam-mount on the client
to mount everything at login.

To verify what the exports are actually using check /var/lib/nfs/etab
as this will include the defaults assumed.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Thu Dec  2 10:47:29 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2010 10:47:29 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] pam_mkhomedir and NFS mounted home dirs *update*
In-Reply-To: <7F0DDC5BF90148179AFEDB012F207954@homepc>
References: <C5840664FDFB4E6983BC5C093E464974@homepc>	<AANLkTikA99WRbTxYwh6uJKYaqwq-YHdK6JfGKyucBHYV@mail.gmail.com>
	<7F0DDC5BF90148179AFEDB012F207954@homepc>
Message-ID: <4CF7BF91.9050808@gmail.com>

Michael ORourke wrote:
> I found a work around for this issue.  On one of the servers in the 
> management zone, I changed the exports to be "no_root_squash", and I added 
> the pam_mkhomedir with the correct permissions.  Now the user just needs to 
> login to that box first, and the home dirs get created successfully.
> 

That's not a work-around.. that's how it SHOULD be set up.

no_root_squash is a work-around to hide poor security.


From mark.stanislav at gmail.com  Fri Dec  3 14:39:17 2010
From: mark.stanislav at gmail.com (Mark Stanislav)
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 14:39:17 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Fwd: Job Opening for a Systems Administrator - Chicago,
	IL.
References: <5CF307D4969EB44EBAEDD4DD94098E6B01C259EC@rsmail01.redsalsa.com>
Message-ID: <E1F3D905-272B-4314-9292-471E476E4867@gmail.com>

Anyone want to get over to Chicago :)?

Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Vinod Kumar" <k_vinod at redsalsa.com>
> Date: December 3, 2010 2:31:38 PM EST
> To: <mark.stanislav at gmail.com>
> Subject: Job Opening for a Systems Administrator - Chicago, IL.
> 
> Hi,
> 
> This is Vinod Kumar from RedSalsa Technologies, Inc. We have an urgent job opening with our direct client.
> 
> The details of the position are as mentioned below:
> 
> Position        : Systems Administrator. 
> Location        : Chicago, IL. 
> Duration        : 6-12 months Contract.
> 
> Note: Weblogic Admin experience in addition to Systems Admin experience will be a major plus.
> 
> Position Summary:
> 
> Client is looking for an experienced System Administrator to join our dynamic team building large-scale SOA based systems.
> Candidates who have deep understanding and hands-on experience configuring, troubleshooting performance tuning large server environments and willing to administer a large server farm that uses several different open sources will be considered for this position.
> This is a hands-on position combining Linux system administration and Java/J2EE application and open source technologies administration.
> 
> Responsibilities:
> 
> Install and configure Red Hat Enterprise 5 and Solaris 10 in a 100+ server farm.
> Work with Information Systems group in providing deployment diagrams and help setting up and configuring the systems.
> Troubleshoot and resolve reported system problems.
> Perform system monitoring and performance tuning to meet required SLA and performance targets.
> Assist system and application architects during capacity planning activities.
> Document and explain implemented processes and configurations.
> Support development, testing, and operations teams during new system deployments.
> Evaluate and propose new tools and technologies to meet the needs of the organization.
> Work with network and system engineers to define optimum network configurations.
> Write scripts to automate application deployments and configurations.
> Provide weekly status reports to project managers describing accomplishments.
> Follow department quality assurance guidelines and processes.
> 
> Requirements:
> 
> 5+ years of experience administering Unix/Linux based systems. RHCE certification is a plus.
> Strong experience with RedHat Enterprise Linux .4 and Solaris 10 is a plus.
> Strong experience in building and configuring traffic heavy TCP/IP networks.
> Experience in using and setting up virtualized environments running on VMware.
> Experience in defining firewall and load balancing rules and configurations.
> Proven track record of administering large scale and high performance Internet applications.
> Ability to learn, apply and explain new tools and technologies quickly.
> Strong experience in performance tuning highly concurrent Java applications running on Linux and x86.
> Familiarity with popular JMS implementations such as JBoss Messaging Service and Apache Qpid.
> Working knowledge of JBoss Application Server and Tomcat.
> Working knowledge of Oracle Service Bus or Open Source Mule ESB is a big plus.
> Familiarity with Apache Hadoop, HDFS, HBase, Solr, and Lucene is a big plus.
> Familiarity with Oracle 10g/11g and PostgreSQL databases.
> Strong knowledge of Microsoft Word, Excel, Visio and UML modeling tools.
> Strong interpersonal, written and verbal communication skills.
> Creative, problem-solving approach with developed multi-tasking ability.
> Ability to effectively function in a fast-paced and constantly changing environment.
> 
> 
> If interested, please send a reply with your updated word format resume and the following details:
> 
> Full Name: 
> Phone Number: 
> Email ID: 
> Expected Payrate: 
> Availability: 
> Current Location: 
> Visa Status: 
> Relocation:
> 
> Awaiting your reply?
> 
> Thanks & Regards,
> Vinod Kumar | Sr. IT Recruiter
> RedSalsa Technologies Inc.
> 13800 Montfort Drive Suite 230
> Dallas, Texas 75240.
> Phone: 972.636.5239
> Fax: 972.503.7900
> k_vinod at redsalsa.com
> www.redsalsa.com
> 
> Note: We respect your on-line privacy. This is not an unsolicited mail. Under Bill 1618 Title III passed by the 105th US Congress this mail cannot be considered Spam as long as we include contact information and a method to be removed from our mailing list. If you are not interested in receiving our e-mails then please reply with a "REMOVE" in the subject line. Sorry for the inconvenience caused.
> 



From danno at umich.edu  Fri Dec  3 18:04:02 2010
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 18:04:02 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] pam_mkhomedir and NFS mounted home dirs *update*
In-Reply-To: <4CF7BF91.9050808@gmail.com>
References: <C5840664FDFB4E6983BC5C093E464974@homepc>	<AANLkTikA99WRbTxYwh6uJKYaqwq-YHdK6JfGKyucBHYV@mail.gmail.com>
	<7F0DDC5BF90148179AFEDB012F207954@homepc>
	<4CF7BF91.9050808@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA340A4C-9842-487E-8296-F74A38E3F76C@umich.edu>

feh, NFS (as generally deployed, perhaps not including NFS4) is swiss cheese anyway.

On Dec 2, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> no_root_squash is a work-around to hide poor security.



From gib at juno.com  Tue Dec  7 07:55:24 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2010 12:55:24 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] FYI: Ohio LinuxFest 2011
Message-ID: <20101207.075524.6980.0@webmail04.vgs.untd.com>


FYI
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
From: Kevin O'Brien <zwilnik at zwilnik.com>
To: larry at njlinux.org, president at cantonlinux.org, colugx at colug.net,  dharris9 at mix.wvu.edu, info at silug.org, ssharkey at lanshark.com,  DLUG-Contact at dma.org, info at luni.org, kluug at kent.edu,  stylinae at email.uc.edu, shaun at therabbithole.org, bryan at byhalia.net,  phillipw at neonlug.org, rmessner at neo.rr.com, eclug1 at gmail.com,  vorian at ubuntu.com, xohio at picrad.com, klug at cs.utk.edu,  appledaytonsig at dma.org, linux at sluug.org, rwcitek at alum.calberkeley.org,  kit at kitty.org, sgsax at ksu.edu, kclug at kclug.org, paulv at canonical.org,  froggy at notacon.org, sdaniels at tcmug.org,  announcements-subscribe at cojug.org, kulua at kulua.org,  JSanders at teamsol.com, lugorml at rochester.rr.com, supermegatron at gmail.com,  davem at solve.net, craig at schiffbauer.org, president at lccug.com,  mac2mac at raex.com, marvleventhal at mac.com, mark at slugbug.org,  discuss at mug.org, bob at newillmeister.com, ncmug_oh at mac.com,  webmaster at nooss.org, markymoon at mac.com, board at nopug.org,  gilbert.a.winter at grc.nasa.gov, zwilnik at zwilnik.com, samiam at gmail.com,  novalug at calypso.tux.org, pdavila at thelinuxlink.net, admin at wnylug.org,  mct at toren.net, info at wplug.org, schultmc at cinlug.org,  vceder at canterburyschool.org, petesbbq at covad.net, ndlug at nd.edu,  mdlug at mdlug.org, james.lacer at gmail.com, rozdyck at lugin.org,  three at threethirty.us, cavmen at comcast.net, chairman at trilug.org,  craig at polishcrap.com, crxssi at hotmail.com, dclug at tux.org,  eric at openthought.net, gholmer at ameritech.net, info at cdlug.net,  info at charlug.org, info at gtlug.org, jeff at elkner.net, jgleason at nylug.org,  kkleiner at mlug.missouri.edu, lclug at shanelambert.com, linux at wacug.org,  linux-user at egr.msu.edu, lugsb at ic.sunysb.edu,  nwclugadmin at harper.cc.il.us, plug at lists.wfu.edu, president at mdlug.org,  qclug at qclug.org, ripleymj at jmu.edu, ruben at mrbrklyn.com,  schmots at gmail.com, sean at dague.net, syrlug at syrlug.org, ultra at oakton.edu,  webmaster at stnylug.org, wsulug at gmail.com, ubuntu-us-mi at lists.ubuntu.com
Cc: Esther Filderman <mizmoose at gmail.com>
Subject: Ohio LinuxFest 2011
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2010 20:24:12 -0500

This is an update on Ohio LinuxFest 2011.

1. The dates are now set for Friday, 9/9/11 through Sunday 9/11/11, 
depending on which events you want to participate in. We are still 
working on lining up keynote speakers, but please feel free to mark your 
calendars now.

2. We are looking for some help from volunteers. If you have some time 
and talent to contribute, we'd love to hear from you. We have needs in a 
variety of positions, such as Security, Room checkers, T-shirt manager, 
Dot-org liaison, etc. You can find the full list, with more details, at 
https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ohiolinuxfest/index.php?title=WeNeedTo#Overall:_Staff 
. If you think you can help with one of these positions, drop me a line 
and I'll put you in touch with the right people at OLF.

3. Do you have suggestions for OLF 2011? Maybe something you want to see 
repeated, or not repeated? Please let me know. We at OLF want to offer 
the best Linux conference experience possible, but we need your help to 
make it so.

4. Finally, if you know of any LUGs or other Linux-oriented groups in 
your area that are new or otherwise not getting these messages, let me 
know. Keeping up with mailing addresses is a little tricky sometimes, 
but we want to keep everyone informed.

See you in 2011!

-- 
Kevin B. O'Brien
LUG Liaison, Ohio LinuxFest
kevin at ohiolinux.org

-- 
Kevin B. O'Brien         TANSTAAFL
zwilnik at zwilnik.com      Linux User #333216
____________________________________________________________
Amazon&#39;s Holiday Toy List
This Year&#39;s Hottest Toys & Games. Free Shipping When You Spend $75.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4cfe2ed52d65f5ac641st06vuc

From tony at bemushosting.com  Tue Dec  7 09:51:47 2010
From: tony at bemushosting.com (Tony Bemus)
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2010 09:51:47 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] MDlug December meeting
In-Reply-To: <20101207.075524.6980.0@webmail04.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20101207.075524.6980.0@webmail04.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <1291733507.6333.2.camel@bemus-remote>

Next Meeting is December 11, 2010
     This month our presentation is Introduction to Linux.  This is from
Kevin O'Brien's series of basic Linux presentations.  We are happy to
have Kevin as a guest speaker.  Kevin comes from our neighbor LUG
http://www.lugwash.org - LUGWASH

	As usual  MDLUG meets monthly at The Gaudior Academy in Inkster. At
12:30p to around 2:30p on the Second Saturday.  Gaudior Academy  is
Located at  27100 Avondale Avenue Inkster MI 48141.  Each meeting
usually begins with MDLUG business. A presentation may follow. Often
general discussions are the order of business. (Contact secretary at
mdlug.org to learn the requirements and volunteer to do a presentation.)
After the meeting, some of us usually go to a local restaurant.

Tony Bemus
secetary



From gib at juno.com  Tue Dec  7 18:54:43 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2010 23:54:43 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  MDlug December meeting
Message-ID: <20101207.185443.24545.0@webmail19.vgs.untd.com>

FYI

---------- Forwarded Message ----------
From: Tony Bemus <tony at bemushosting.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: [mdlug] MDlug December meeting
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2010 09:51:47 -0500

Next Meeting is December 11, 2010
     This month our presentation is Introduction to Linux.  This is from
Kevin O'Brien's series of basic Linux presentations.  We are happy to
have Kevin as a guest speaker.  Kevin comes from our neighbor LUG
http://www.lugwash.org - LUGWASH

	As usual  MDLUG meets monthly at The Gaudior Academy in Inkster. At
12:30p to around 2:30p on the Second Saturday.  Gaudior Academy  is
Located at  27100 Avondale Avenue Inkster MI 48141.  Each meeting
usually begins with MDLUG business. A presentation may follow. Often
general discussions are the order of business. (Contact secretary at
mdlug.org to learn the requirements and volunteer to do a presentation.)
After the meeting, some of us usually go to a local restaurant.

Tony Bemus
secetary

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


____________________________________________________________
Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance
If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4cfec985bf5d25cd8c2st04vuc


From gib at juno.com  Tue Dec  7 20:32:23 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2010 01:32:23 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] MDlug December meeting
Message-ID: <20101207.203223.23439.0@webmail01.vgs.untd.com>


Oh, and nominations for officers . . . 

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "gib at juno.com" <gib at juno.com>
To: discuss at mug.org, mdlug at mdlug.org, clyne at mich.com, richard55 at sbcglobal.net, audiotech50 at gmail.com, mdbader at flash.net
Subject: [mdlug]  MDlug December meeting
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2010 23:54:43 GMT

FYI

---------- Forwarded Message ----------
From: Tony Bemus <tony at bemushosting.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: [mdlug] MDlug December meeting
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2010 09:51:47 -0500

Next Meeting is December 11, 2010
     This month our presentation is Introduction to Linux.  This is from
Kevin O'Brien's series of basic Linux presentations.  We are happy to
have Kevin as a guest speaker.  Kevin comes from our neighbor LUG
http://www.lugwash.org - LUGWASH

	As usual  MDLUG meets monthly at The Gaudior Academy in Inkster. At
12:30p to around 2:30p on the Second Saturday.  Gaudior Academy  is
Located at  27100 Avondale Avenue Inkster MI 48141.  Each meeting
usually begins with MDLUG business. A presentation may follow. Often
general discussions are the order of business. (Contact secretary at
mdlug.org to learn the requirements and volunteer to do a presentation.)
After the meeting, some of us usually go to a local restaurant.

Tony Bemus
secetary

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


____________________________________________________________
Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance
If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4cfec985bf5d25cd8c2st04vuc
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




From tony at bemushosting.com  Wed Dec  8 10:48:26 2010
From: tony at bemushosting.com (Tony Bemus)
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2010 10:48:26 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] MDlug December meeting
In-Reply-To: <20101207.203223.23439.0@webmail01.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20101207.203223.23439.0@webmail01.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <1291823306.10206.13.camel@bemus-remote>

    As President Gib mentioned,  nominations will be herd at the
December and January meetings and also through this mailing list.  Just
remembered the nomination needs to be seconded and the nominee must
accept the nomination.  I also suggest that nominees to review the
bylaws for the job descriptions before accepting.
    Also for Elections we do accept proxy votes as long as I am notified
ahead of time.

For the Nominations and the elections here is the section from the
bylaws.(http://mdlug.org/bylaws.html  

VII. NOMINATION OF CANDIDATES
     A. Nomination of candidates for office shall be made any time prior
to the election, including at the meeting. All nominations must be
seconded (the nominee is not eligible to second themselves) and the
nominee must accept the nomination to be a candidate. Nominees need not
be present at the election.


VI. ELECTIONS
    A. MDLUG shall hold an annual election in January, performing such
business as required herein. The Secretary shall have supervision and
management of all elections.

    B. Officers shall be elected at a regular meeting of MDLUG by the
attending members. The attending members may cast votes for themselves
and may act as a proxy for others. In the case of a proxy vote, the
member wishing to have a proxy vote in his/her stead must notify the
Secretary in writing prior to the election. This notification may be in
the form of an email. The Secretary shall note the name of the member
asking to use a proxy and the name of the member who will cast the proxy
vote at the meeting. The Secretary shall oversee the specific details of
the election.

Tony Bemus
MDLUG Secretary


On Wed, 2010-12-08 at 01:32 +0000, gib at juno.com wrote:
> Oh, and nominations for officers . . . 
> 
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: "gib at juno.com" <gib at juno.com>
> To: discuss at mug.org, mdlug at mdlug.org, clyne at mich.com, richard55 at sbcglobal.net, audiotech50 at gmail.com, mdbader at flash.net
> Subject: [mdlug]  MDlug December meeting
> Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2010 23:54:43 GMT
> 
> FYI
> 
> ---------- Forwarded Message ----------
> From: Tony Bemus <tony at bemushosting.com>
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Subject: [mdlug] MDlug December meeting
> Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2010 09:51:47 -0500
> 
> Next Meeting is December 11, 2010
>      This month our presentation is Introduction to Linux.  This is from
> Kevin O'Brien's series of basic Linux presentations.  We are happy to
> have Kevin as a guest speaker.  Kevin comes from our neighbor LUG
> http://www.lugwash.org - LUGWASH
> 
> 	As usual  MDLUG meets monthly at The Gaudior Academy in Inkster. At
> 12:30p to around 2:30p on the Second Saturday.  Gaudior Academy  is
> Located at  27100 Avondale Avenue Inkster MI 48141.  Each meeting
> usually begins with MDLUG business. A presentation may follow. Often
> general discussions are the order of business. (Contact secretary at
> mdlug.org to learn the requirements and volunteer to do a presentation.)
> After the meeting, some of us usually go to a local restaurant.
> 
> Tony Bemus
> secetary
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance
> If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4cfec985bf5d25cd8c2st04vuc
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




From tony at bemushosting.com  Sat Dec 11 12:29:15 2010
From: tony at bemushosting.com (Tony Bemus)
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2010 12:29:15 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] MDlug December meeting
Message-ID: <0MFtvS-1PfAMw0yLm-00FOJ8@mrelay.perfora.net>

Running late, i will be there

Tony Bemus
Sent from my smartphone

-----Original Message-----
From: gib at juno.com <gib at juno.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2010 8:32 PM
To: mdlug at mdlug.org
Cc: richard55 at sbcglobal.net; clyne at mich.com; discuss at mug.org; mdlug at mdlug.org
Subject: Re: [mdlug] MDlug December meeting


Oh, and nominations for officers . . . 

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "gib at juno.com" <gib at juno.com>
To: discuss at mug.org, mdlug at mdlug.org, clyne at mich.com, richard55 at sbcglobal.net, audiotech50 at gmail.com, mdbader at flash.net
Subject: [mdlug]  MDlug December meeting
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2010 23:54:43 GMT

FYI

---------- Forwarded Message ----------
From: Tony Bemus <tony at bemushosting.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: [mdlug] MDlug December meeting
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2010 09:51:47 -0500

Next Meeting is December 11, 2010
     This month our presentation is Introduction to Linux.  This is from
Kevin O'Brien's series of basic Linux presentations.  We are happy to
have Kevin as a guest speaker.  Kevin comes from our neighbor LUG
http://www.lugwash.org - LUGWASH

	As usual  MDLUG meets monthly at The Gaudior Academy in Inkster. At
12:30p to around 2:30p on the Second Saturday.  Gaudior Academy  is
Located at  27100 Avondale Avenue Inkster MI 48141.  Each meeting
usually begins with MDLUG business. A presentation may follow. Often
general discussions are the order of business. (Contact secretary at
mdlug.org to learn the requirements and volunteer to do a presentation.)
After the meeting, some of us usually go to a local restaurant.

Tony Bemus
secetary

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


____________________________________________________________
Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance
If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4cfec985bf5d25cd8c2st04vuc
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From gib at juno.com  Sat Dec 11 12:51:38 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2010 17:51:38 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] MDlug December meeting
Message-ID: <20101211.125138.1850.0@webmail20.vgs.untd.com>

Okay, we have delayed nominations.

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Tony Bemus <tony at bemushosting.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: Re: [mdlug] MDlug December meeting
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2010 12:29:15 -0500

Running late, i will be there

Tony Bemus
Sent from my smartphone

-----Original Message-----
From: gib at juno.com <gib at juno.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2010 8:32 PM
To: mdlug at mdlug.org
Cc: richard55 at sbcglobal.net; clyne at mich.com; discuss at mug.org; mdlug at mdlug.org
Subject: Re: [mdlug] MDlug December meeting


Oh, and nominations for officers . . . 

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "gib at juno.com" <gib at juno.com>
To: discuss at mug.org, mdlug at mdlug.org, clyne at mich.com, richard55 at sbcglobal.net, audiotech50 at gmail.com, mdbader at flash.net
Subject: [mdlug]  MDlug December meeting
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2010 23:54:43 GMT

FYI

---------- Forwarded Message ----------
From: Tony Bemus <tony at bemushosting.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: [mdlug] MDlug December meeting
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2010 09:51:47 -0500

Next Meeting is December 11, 2010
     This month our presentation is Introduction to Linux.  This is from
Kevin O'Brien's series of basic Linux presentations.  We are happy to
have Kevin as a guest speaker.  Kevin comes from our neighbor LUG
http://www.lugwash.org - LUGWASH

	As usual  MDLUG meets monthly at The Gaudior Academy in Inkster. At
12:30p to around 2:30p on the Second Saturday.  Gaudior Academy  is
Located at  27100 Avondale Avenue Inkster MI 48141.  Each meeting
usually begins with MDLUG business. A presentation may follow. Often
general discussions are the order of business. (Contact secretary at
mdlug.org to learn the requirements and volunteer to do a presentation.)
After the meeting, some of us usually go to a local restaurant.

Tony Bemus
secetary

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
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____________________________________________________________
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If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4cfec985bf5d25cd8c2st04vuc
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From tony at bemushosting.com  Mon Dec 13 10:05:09 2010
From: tony at bemushosting.com (Tony Bemus)
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 10:05:09 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Linux Talk Podcast
In-Reply-To: <20101211.125138.1850.0@webmail20.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20101211.125138.1850.0@webmail20.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <1292252709.2725.9.camel@bemus-remote>

With my family growing it is getting hard for me to get out of the house
to do some linux talk.  So I started looking for some podcasts.   here
are some that I am listening to and I thought you guys may be
interested:
http://lococast.net/  - Rick Harding and Craig Maloney from MUG/ Ubuntu
Michigan Loco

http://linuxoutlaws.com/ - good overall linux news and talk

http://www.linuxreality.com/ - No new episodes but the subjects look
really good.  I have not listened to them yet but I am thinking about
doing some presentations on the same subjects...  more to come later.

So what do you guys this about linux podcasts and do you have any you
like?

Tony Bemus




From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Mon Dec 13 11:30:55 2010
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 11:30:55 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Linux Talk Podcast
In-Reply-To: <1292252709.2725.9.camel@bemus-remote>
References: <20101211.125138.1850.0@webmail20.vgs.untd.com>
	<1292252709.2725.9.camel@bemus-remote>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=q19puodmRXsH6XS1ndiGCkCcLz1ZmFBHYxtzE@mail.gmail.com>

--- Tony Bemus wrote:

> With my family growing it is getting hard for me to get out of the house
> to do some Linux talk. ?So I started looking for some podcasts.
[...]

Here's another set you might like: The "Techrights" and "OpenBytes"
sites have a joint podcast series.

Techrights: http://techrights.org
OpenBytes: http://openbytes.wordpress.com
Podcasts: http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/TechBytes

~~ Michael Rudas
?? My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
?? My software blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com
?? My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/protop
?? http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey


From radkins at impelind.com  Mon Dec 13 14:00:52 2010
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins II)
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 14:00:52 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Major Malfunction -  Fileserver down
Message-ID: <2068FC396377447FB8664303866353E2@Delta7>

I received a call this morning that "Everything is down".
 
Turns out, that originally the Internet wasn't working and so, the logical
solution is go into the server closet with a proverbial hammer and beat the
living shit out of all of the equipment. (/end rant)
 
We have a router problem, the router needs to be power cycled, guess what
singular piece of equipment wasn't power cycled?
 
Instead, the Fileserver and the Email/Proxy Server were power cycled.
 
The Email/Proxy server came up, no problem.
 
The Fileserver is being incredibly stubborn. (OpenSuSe 11.1) It stated the
following: 
 
error on stat() /dev/disk/by-id/"The actual identifier of the disk,
including make and serial number"
 
Then it stated that essentially every single partition on that disk is
inaccessible.
 
I ran fsck and it mentioned the superblock being hosed. So, I got ahold of
TestDisk and ran that, which was able to determine all of the Superblock
locations and the block size. Ran fsck to replace the Superblock and it
seemed to do so quite fine and then wanted to repair a ton of inodes. Reran
fsck to double check things. Got a "clean" on each drive. Rebooted, same
error message as before.
 
I am beginning to think that this is referring to something specific with
the RAID1 setup, which is only used for the data drives, the OS is by
itself. The BIOS has the RAID1 set configured and the OS installation saw
the entire RAID as a single disk composed of both, installed fine and no
issues in operation.
 
I commented out the partitions in fstab, just to see if I could get the OS
to fully boot, ignoring the data drives, for the time being. Same error
message came up.
 
 So, there is something going on with the RAID setup and how the OS views
the RAID when booting. Any pointers/suggestion?
 
    Thanks,
    Rob


From gib at juno.com  Mon Dec 13 14:12:51 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 19:12:51 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  Linux Talk Podcast
Message-ID: <20101213.141251.9369.0@webmail05.vgs.untd.com>

Sounds great.

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Tony Bemus <tony at bemushosting.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: [mdlug] Linux Talk Podcast
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 10:05:09 -0500

With my family growing it is getting hard for me to get out of the house
to do some linux talk.  So I started looking for some podcasts.   here
are some that I am listening to and I thought you guys may be
interested:
http://lococast.net/  - Rick Harding and Craig Maloney from MUG/ Ubuntu
Michigan Loco

http://linuxoutlaws.com/ - good overall linux news and talk

http://www.linuxreality.com/ - No new episodes but the subjects look
really good.  I have not listened to them yet but I am thinking about
doing some presentations on the same subjects...  more to come later.

So what do you guys this about linux podcasts and do you have any you
like?

Tony Bemus


_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
____________________________________________________________
How to Stay Asleep
Cambridge Researchers have developed an all natural sleep aid just for you.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4d067093bc8f46bee6fst03vuc

From radkins at impelind.com  Mon Dec 13 14:35:48 2010
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins II)
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 14:35:48 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Major Malfunction -  Fileserver Up - Problem Solved
Message-ID: <A791472EB24A40D1A139C2F63D1F4B87@Delta7>

I need to get into the habit of writing out the issues AND what I have done
to this list more often and much sooner.
 
Putting myself into the position of explaining the issue ended up helping me
see what the damnable problem was from the get go.
 
The external backup Hard Drive wasn't connected to the server. Comment out
that drive in fstab and... it booted fine.
 
Looking at the logs, it does look like there were a series of issues across
the filesystems from the crude shutdown foisted upon the server and the
datafile RAID required a manual fsck to correct a number of those.
 
Thanks for reading.
 
Rob
 


  _____  

From: Robert Adkins II [mailto:radkins at impelind.com] 
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2010 2:01 PM
To: 'MDLUG's Main discussion list'
Subject: Major Malfunction - Fileserver down


I received a call this morning that "Everything is down".
 
Turns out, that originally the Internet wasn't working and so, the logical
solution is go into the server closet with a proverbial hammer and beat the
living shit out of all of the equipment. (/end rant)
 
We have a router problem, the router needs to be power cycled, guess what
singular piece of equipment wasn't power cycled?
 
Instead, the Fileserver and the Email/Proxy Server were power cycled.
 
The Email/Proxy server came up, no problem.
 
The Fileserver is being incredibly stubborn. (OpenSuSe 11.1) It stated the
following: 
 
error on stat() /dev/disk/by-id/"The actual identifier of the disk,
including make and serial number"
 
Then it stated that essentially every single partition on that disk is
inaccessible.
 
I ran fsck and it mentioned the superblock being hosed. So, I got ahold of
TestDisk and ran that, which was able to determine all of the Superblock
locations and the block size. Ran fsck to replace the Superblock and it
seemed to do so quite fine and then wanted to repair a ton of inodes. Reran
fsck to double check things. Got a "clean" on each drive. Rebooted, same
error message as before.
 
I am beginning to think that this is referring to something specific with
the RAID1 setup, which is only used for the data drives, the OS is by
itself. The BIOS has the RAID1 set configured and the OS installation saw
the entire RAID as a single disk composed of both, installed fine and no
issues in operation.
 
I commented out the partitions in fstab, just to see if I could get the OS
to fully boot, ignoring the data drives, for the time being. Same error
message came up.
 
 So, there is something going on with the RAID setup and how the OS views
the RAID when booting. Any pointers/suggestion?
 
    Thanks,
    Rob



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Dec 15 09:21:32 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 09:21:32 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] The financial & legal danger of wireless in the house...
Message-ID: <4D08CEEC.1070409@gmail.com>

A few years ago, I posted on the problems that could result
from using wireless networking in an apartment or house
(i.e. no "corporate veil" to protect you from personal
liability) & lot of people said I was nuts.

Now a retired engineer was sued for $300,000 by the MPAA
for downloading two movies that he's never even heard of.

Culprit, most likely, someone leaching off of the wireless
signal from his router.  Although the suit against him was
thrown out, it was NOT on technical or evidenciary grounds,
only because the MPAA filed in the federal court in Washington,
DC rather than in his district -- and the case was dismissed
WITHOUT prejudice, which means that the MPAA can refile
in another court, and he'll be facing a $300k lawsuit
once again.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/12/its-organized-crime-one-p2p-defendant-speaks-out.ars?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss

[While I discourage copyright infringement, I have absolutely
NO sympathy for the RIAA and the MPAA with their heavy
handed tactics and what amounts to an extortion racket.]


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Wed Dec 15 12:39:45 2010
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 12:39:45 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] The financial & legal danger of wireless in the house...
In-Reply-To: <4D08CEEC.1070409@gmail.com>
References: <4D08CEEC.1070409@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50F4BFBDC6001340B94E13C70E39F9B0123004@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Aaron Kulkis

> Now a retired engineer was sued for $300,000 by the MPAA
> for downloading two movies that he's never even heard of.

It's worth noting that 'really excellent' security is not strictly
necessary in this regard. Our wifi has a strong password, and is placed
in such a way that very little signal reaches off our property. But that
wouldn't stop the NSA... nor, necessarily, a nearby teenager with time
and a cantenna.

But there are, within range of our property, five other networks last I
checked, two of which were unencrypted. Unless an intruder was
specifically targeting us, there's no reason to go to the trouble of
breaking into our network when there's nearby low-hanging fruit.

The point being, just about *any* security is substantially better than
none *for this particular problem*.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                              (313) 227-2317

 "Once in a while you will stumble upon the truth but most of us manage
   to pick ourselves up and hurry along as if nothing had happened."
                       - Winston Churchill

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Dec 15 23:09:55 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 23:09:55 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] The financial & legal danger of wireless in the house...
In-Reply-To: <4D08CEEC.1070409@gmail.com>
References: <4D08CEEC.1070409@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTim0nXZRT74x8Q1Kqk70LNZ2WD4SueadO2S-xFgx@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 9:21 AM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
> A few years ago, I posted on the problems that could result
> from using wireless networking in an apartment or house
> (i.e. no "corporate veil" to protect you from personal
> liability) & lot of people said I was nuts.
>

A different opinion:
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/01/my_open_wireles.html

I have an open wireless connection through IPCop.  It's
bandwidth-limited in a very secure manner - an ISA Ethernet NIC.  I
did get a message from Charter about a music copyright violation
complaint from somebody.  Nobody on the internal network would have
been interested in the type of music that the claim referenced so I
knew it was from the WiFI (the traffic pattern indicated it also).
The claimed violation was detected in the early AM which matched the
traffic.  I simply plugged the cable modem into an appliance timer so
it shuts off between midnight and 6am.  More or less eliminated the
problem and keeps the address changing.


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 16 00:39:33 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 00:39:33 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] The financial & legal danger of wireless in the house...
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTim0nXZRT74x8Q1Kqk70LNZ2WD4SueadO2S-xFgx@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4D08CEEC.1070409@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTim0nXZRT74x8Q1Kqk70LNZ2WD4SueadO2S-xFgx@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D09A615.9020609@gmail.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 9:21 AM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> A few years ago, I posted on the problems that could result
>> from using wireless networking in an apartment or house
>> (i.e. no "corporate veil" to protect you from personal
>> liability) & lot of people said I was nuts.
>>
> 
> A different opinion:
> http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/01/my_open_wireles.html
> 
> I have an open wireless connection through IPCop.  It's
> bandwidth-limited in a very secure manner - an ISA Ethernet NIC.  I
> did get a message from Charter about a music copyright violation
> complaint from somebody.  Nobody on the internal network would have
> been interested in the type of music that the claim referenced so I
> knew it was from the WiFI (the traffic pattern indicated it also).


I.e. it was traced to YOUR IP ADDRESS.  You're lucky you
weren't dragged into court... or, since you haven't settled,
they're in the process of filing the papers in court against you.

> The claimed violation was detected in the early AM which matched the
> traffic.  I simply plugged the cable modem into an appliance timer so
> it shuts off between midnight and 6am.  More or less eliminated the
> problem and keeps the address changing.

Basically, you just admitted the problem... and unlike in a
business environment, YOU ARE *PERSONALLY* RESPONSIBLE for
what happens on your network.

If someone sues an incorporated business, and the business
only has assets of $10,000, that's all they can get.  If
they sue YOU, an individual -- you can spend the rest of
your life paying off the damage award.

And remember... copyright damages for this sort of thing
are way out of proportion compared to actually distributing
hard copies (of either copyrighted material or even
trademarked items).


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Dec 16 02:07:01 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 02:07:01 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] The financial & legal danger of wireless in the house...
In-Reply-To: <4D09A615.9020609@gmail.com>
References: <4D08CEEC.1070409@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTim0nXZRT74x8Q1Kqk70LNZ2WD4SueadO2S-xFgx@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D09A615.9020609@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimb44-Jvyu-mb98+F0=kmGYZKByPyYeKX8a7_NZ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 12:39 AM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I.e. it was traced to YOUR IP ADDRESS. ?You're lucky you
> weren't dragged into court... or, since you haven't settled,
> they're in the process of filing the papers in court against you.
>

It's been about two years now.  I'm not worried.  The lawsuits have
been challenged more and failing to accomplish anything.  There is an
established process of defeating them with court cases to match.  The
RIAA hasn't really been filing that many lately as it has cost way
more than they ever recovered as leaked documents have shown.


From rob.oliver80 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 16 10:12:02 2010
From: rob.oliver80 at gmail.com (Robert Oliver)
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 10:12:02 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] The financial & legal danger of wireless in the house...
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTim0nXZRT74x8Q1Kqk70LNZ2WD4SueadO2S-xFgx@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4D08CEEC.1070409@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTim0nXZRT74x8Q1Kqk70LNZ2WD4SueadO2S-xFgx@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimpj+sx0eo7eGGsSQUKbhNg1+g2kAfYrfv0HQoS@mail.gmail.com>

I keep  my wireless pretty locked down.  I change the SSIDs, default
usernames and passwords, and use WPA2.  The only thing I don't do is use a
hidden SSID, I think that tends to be more trouble than it's worth.

I think the benefits of having wireless in the home far out weigh the cons.
 In fact, depending on the business, I think the cons out weigh the benefits
in a business setting.  That's excluding "guest" wireless networks that are
separate from the company's network.  I'm talking wireless networks the
employees would be regularly connecting to in order to do their jobs.

Anyhow, just my $12 (damn inflation).

On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 11:09 PM, Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 9:21 AM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > A few years ago, I posted on the problems that could result
> > from using wireless networking in an apartment or house
> > (i.e. no "corporate veil" to protect you from personal
> > liability) & lot of people said I was nuts.
> >
>
> A different opinion:
> http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/01/my_open_wireles.html
>
> I have an open wireless connection through IPCop.  It's
> bandwidth-limited in a very secure manner - an ISA Ethernet NIC.  I
> did get a message from Charter about a music copyright violation
> complaint from somebody.  Nobody on the internal network would have
> been interested in the type of music that the claim referenced so I
> knew it was from the WiFI (the traffic pattern indicated it also).
> The claimed violation was detected in the early AM which matched the
> traffic.  I simply plugged the cable modem into an appliance timer so
> it shuts off between midnight and 6am.  More or less eliminated the
> problem and keeps the address changing.
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From tesral at wowway.com  Thu Dec 16 11:40:38 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 11:40:38 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] The financial & legal danger of wireless in the house...
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimpj+sx0eo7eGGsSQUKbhNg1+g2kAfYrfv0HQoS@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4D08CEEC.1070409@gmail.com>	<AANLkTim0nXZRT74x8Q1Kqk70LNZ2WD4SueadO2S-xFgx@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimpj+sx0eo7eGGsSQUKbhNg1+g2kAfYrfv0HQoS@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D0A4106.6040603@wowway.com>

Robert Oliver wrote:
> I keep  my wireless pretty locked down.  I change the SSIDs, default
> usernames and passwords, and use WPA2.  The only thing I don't do is use a
> hidden SSID, I think that tends to be more trouble than it's worth.
>
> I think the benefits of having wireless in the home far out weigh the cons.
>  In fact, depending on the business, I think the cons out weigh the benefits
> in a business setting.  That's excluding "guest" wireless networks that are
> separate from the company's network.  I'm talking wireless networks the
> employees would be regularly connecting to in order to do their jobs.
>   

As a home used I prefer wired.  Speed and security.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Those persons, or societies, easily offended need to be offended until they get over it.
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Dec 16 13:27:15 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 13:27:15 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] The financial & legal danger of wireless in the house...
In-Reply-To: <4D0A4106.6040603@wowway.com>
References: <4D08CEEC.1070409@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTim0nXZRT74x8Q1Kqk70LNZ2WD4SueadO2S-xFgx@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimpj+sx0eo7eGGsSQUKbhNg1+g2kAfYrfv0HQoS@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D0A4106.6040603@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikmqnqU8EvznNxLsYTx31vNxMNqbQ0TV-EEiRih@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 11:40 AM, Garry Stahl <tesral at wowway.com> wrote:
> As a home used I prefer wired. ?Speed and security.

Real tinfoil-hat type prefer fiber with encryption as it's much more
difficult to intercept.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Dec 16 13:27:15 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 13:27:15 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] The financial & legal danger of wireless in the house...
In-Reply-To: <4D0A4106.6040603@wowway.com>
References: <4D08CEEC.1070409@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTim0nXZRT74x8Q1Kqk70LNZ2WD4SueadO2S-xFgx@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimpj+sx0eo7eGGsSQUKbhNg1+g2kAfYrfv0HQoS@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D0A4106.6040603@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikmqnqU8EvznNxLsYTx31vNxMNqbQ0TV-EEiRih@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 11:40 AM, Garry Stahl <tesral at wowway.com> wrote:
> As a home used I prefer wired. ?Speed and security.

Real tinfoil-hat type prefer fiber with encryption as it's much more
difficult to intercept.


From tesral at wowway.com  Thu Dec 16 13:40:48 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 13:40:48 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] The financial & legal danger of wireless in the house...
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikmqnqU8EvznNxLsYTx31vNxMNqbQ0TV-EEiRih@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4D08CEEC.1070409@gmail.com>	<AANLkTim0nXZRT74x8Q1Kqk70LNZ2WD4SueadO2S-xFgx@mail.gmail.com>	<AANLkTimpj+sx0eo7eGGsSQUKbhNg1+g2kAfYrfv0HQoS@mail.gmail.com>	<4D0A4106.6040603@wowway.com>
	<AANLkTikmqnqU8EvznNxLsYTx31vNxMNqbQ0TV-EEiRih@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D0A5D30.7070305@wowway.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:

> Real tinfoil-hat type prefer fiber with encryption as it's much more
> difficult to intercept.
>   

I must not have a tin foil hat.  But the guy downloading movies can't
"borrow" my wireless if it is turned off.  And cat 5 is much faster.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Those persons, or societies, easily offended need to be offended until they get over it.
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 16 14:40:02 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 14:40:02 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] The financial & legal danger of wireless in the house...
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikmqnqU8EvznNxLsYTx31vNxMNqbQ0TV-EEiRih@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4D08CEEC.1070409@gmail.com>	<AANLkTim0nXZRT74x8Q1Kqk70LNZ2WD4SueadO2S-xFgx@mail.gmail.com>	<AANLkTimpj+sx0eo7eGGsSQUKbhNg1+g2kAfYrfv0HQoS@mail.gmail.com>	<4D0A4106.6040603@wowway.com>
	<AANLkTikmqnqU8EvznNxLsYTx31vNxMNqbQ0TV-EEiRih@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D0A6B12.6070604@gmail.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 11:40 AM, Garry Stahl <tesral at wowway.com> wrote:
>> As a home used I prefer wired.  Speed and security.
> 
> Real tinfoil-hat type prefer fiber with encryption as it's much more
> difficult to intercept.

Ethernet is push-pull over twisted pairs.  As such, it
puts out negligible magnetic and electric potential fields.


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 16 14:40:37 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 14:40:37 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] The financial & legal danger of wireless in the house...
In-Reply-To: <4D0A5D30.7070305@wowway.com>
References: <4D08CEEC.1070409@gmail.com>	<AANLkTim0nXZRT74x8Q1Kqk70LNZ2WD4SueadO2S-xFgx@mail.gmail.com>	<AANLkTimpj+sx0eo7eGGsSQUKbhNg1+g2kAfYrfv0HQoS@mail.gmail.com>	<4D0A4106.6040603@wowway.com>	<AANLkTikmqnqU8EvznNxLsYTx31vNxMNqbQ0TV-EEiRih@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D0A5D30.7070305@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <4D0A6B35.3020109@gmail.com>

Garry Stahl wrote:
> Jeff Hanson wrote:
> 
>> Real tinfoil-hat type prefer fiber with encryption as it's much more
>> difficult to intercept.
>>   
> 
> I must not have a tin foil hat.  But the guy downloading movies can't

Or any other illegal activity....

> "borrow" my wireless if it is turned off.  And cat 5 is much faster.
> 



From mark.stanislav at gmail.com  Thu Dec 16 15:54:22 2010
From: mark.stanislav at gmail.com (Mark Stanislav)
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 15:54:22 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Fwd: Linux System Administrator position: Respond by
	12/16
References: <E97B2F6F2C260C4491CD0BB47486F5A619ECCD@MORPHEUS.local.epitecgroup.com>
Message-ID: <E28EBC11-3BD2-413A-B0F2-55921C097D04@gmail.com>

Feel free.

Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Alyssa Zotos (azotos at epitecgroup.com)" <azotos at epitecgroup.com>
> Date: December 16, 2010 3:33:53 PM EST
> To: "mark.stanislav at gmail.com" <mark.stanislav at gmail.com>
> Subject: Linux System Administrator position: Respond by 12/16
> 
> Mark,
> 
> My name is Alyssa Zotos and I represent The Epitec Group, a top tier IT staffing firm located in Southfield, Michigan.
> 
> I came across your name as someone that may be interested in a few positions that our organization currently has available. These are ?priority? to fill positions and our customer is looking to schedule interviews today. I will follow up with a phone call, but I wanted to make sure you receive some important details first:
> 
> 1. Linux system administrator
> 
> 2. SuSE Linux
> 
> 3. Solaris
> 
> 4. HP-UX
> 
> 5. Perl Scripting
> 
> 6. Shell Scripting
> 
> 7. Disaster recovery experience  
> 
> If you have the majority of the skills listed above, I would like the opportunity to speak with you today! Please let me know what time works best for you.
> 
> I also wanted to share with you some information about The Epitec Group. During the last three decades, we?ve continued to attract and retain people with the technological talent to move some of the greatest companies forward. These great companies depend on our industry expertise, award-winning processes and proprietary workforce support tools to help stimulate their growth. The most valuable assets our customers rely on at The Epitec Group are the innovative minds and energetic spirit of our talented people.
> 
> I am very excited about your background and look forward to speaking with you soon.
> 
> Respectfully,
> 
> Alyssa Zotos
> Genius Finder
> 
> THE EPITEC GROUP, INC. | 24800 Denso Dr. Suite 150 | Southfield, MI 48033
> DD (248) 595-0932 | P (248) 353-6800 | E azotos at epitecgroup.com | W www.epitecgroup.com
> 
> Describe your dream workplace to us, we'll listen.  Then, we'll place you there.  Fulfill your career desires today.
> 
> The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee(s) only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not use it, copy or reproduce in any form or disclose it to another party. If you received this email in error please notify the sender immediately and then kindly destroy it.
> 
>  
> 



From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 23 11:43:00 2010
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2010 11:43:00 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=F3CffYoqBGoxjA9QJA2opxi_DCpZpWhZXRqOH@mail.gmail.com>

Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?  The evidence says "yes"--in
the face of ARM processors running Android, Chrome, or iOS, is there a
future for Windows on x86 processors?
<http://www.digitimes.com/NewsShow/MailHome.asp?datePublish=2010/12/22&pages=PD&seq=217>
Somehow, I doubt that Windows on ARM is gonna fly...

~~ Michael Rudas
?? My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
?? My software blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com
?? My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/protop
?? http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Thu Dec 23 15:26:44 2010
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2010 15:26:44 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=F3CffYoqBGoxjA9QJA2opxi_DCpZpWhZXRqOH@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=F3CffYoqBGoxjA9QJA2opxi_DCpZpWhZXRqOH@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50F4BFBDC6001340B94E13C70E39F9B01232FD@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Michael Rudas

> Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?  The evidence says "yes"--in
> the face of ARM processors running Android, Chrome, or iOS, is there a
> future for Windows on x86 processors?

Microsoft won't go away, and they'll still be a big company. IBM owned
the 1970's and 1980's, then Microsoft took over from 1990's to now. IBM
isn't gone, and still makes plenty of money, they just stand astride the
industry like a colossus. Microsoft is well on the way to joining them.

For now, it looks like Google is best-poised to become the next
colossus, but there's still *some* room for someone else to jump in. I
don't *think* Apple can do it now, but it's not completely
inconceivable.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                               (313) 227-2317

   "They said there'd be snow at Christmas, they said there'd be peace
  on Earth. Halelujah Noel, be it heaven or hell; the Christmas we get,
 we deserve." - Emerson, Lake, & Palmer, 'I Believe In Father Christmas'

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Thu Dec 23 15:36:24 2010
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2010 15:36:24 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
In-Reply-To: <50F4BFBDC6001340B94E13C70E39F9B01232FD@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <AANLkTi=F3CffYoqBGoxjA9QJA2opxi_DCpZpWhZXRqOH@mail.gmail.com>
	<50F4BFBDC6001340B94E13C70E39F9B01232FD@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <50F4BFBDC6001340B94E13C70E39F9B0123301@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Ingles, Raymond
> IBM isn't gone, and still makes plenty of money, they just [DON'T]
stand astride the
> industry like a colossus.

Note the additional word. :/

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                               (313) 227-2317

   "They said there'd be snow at Christmas, they said there'd be peace
  on Earth. Halelujah Noel, be it heaven or hell; the Christmas we get,
 we deserve." - Emerson, Lake, & Palmer, 'I Believe In Father Christmas'


The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 23 15:41:33 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2010 15:41:33 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
In-Reply-To: <50F4BFBDC6001340B94E13C70E39F9B01232FD@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <AANLkTi=F3CffYoqBGoxjA9QJA2opxi_DCpZpWhZXRqOH@mail.gmail.com>
	<50F4BFBDC6001340B94E13C70E39F9B01232FD@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <4D13B3FD.2050404@gmail.com>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>> From: Michael Rudas
> 
>> Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?  The evidence says "yes"--in
>> the face of ARM processors running Android, Chrome, or iOS, is there a
>> future for Windows on x86 processors?
> 
> Microsoft won't go away, and they'll still be a big company. IBM owned
> the 1970's and 1980's, then Microsoft took over from 1990's to now. IBM
> isn't gone, and still makes plenty of money, they just stand astride the
> industry like a colossus. Microsoft is well on the way to joining them.
> 
> For now, it looks like Google is best-poised to become the next
> colossus, but there's still *some* room for someone else to jump in. I
> don't *think* Apple can do it now, but it's not completely
> inconceivable.
> 

Unlike IBM and Microsoft, web-sites have no capacity for customer lock-in.
If Google gains and maintains a monopoly, it will be by earning it.

Not just once, but EVERY SINGLE DAY.


From jaketodd422 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 23 16:15:07 2010
From: jaketodd422 at gmail.com (Jacob Todd)
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2010 16:15:07 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=F3CffYoqBGoxjA9QJA2opxi_DCpZpWhZXRqOH@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=F3CffYoqBGoxjA9QJA2opxi_DCpZpWhZXRqOH@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinbt4RADeKps7sJUYAsNhjs-wbz32_taN7=tQ-0@mail.gmail.com>

Seeing that there was no monopoly to begin with, no.


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Fri Dec 24 21:35:14 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 21:35:14 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinbt4RADeKps7sJUYAsNhjs-wbz32_taN7=tQ-0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=F3CffYoqBGoxjA9QJA2opxi_DCpZpWhZXRqOH@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinbt4RADeKps7sJUYAsNhjs-wbz32_taN7=tQ-0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D155862.502@gmail.com>

Jacob Todd wrote:
> Seeing that there was no monopoly to begin with, no.

1. Go into a retail store, and try to by a non-Apple
laptop without Windows on it.  If you can accomplish
this in the same amount of time as it takes to purchase
a laptop with Windows on it, I'll be surprised.

Shocked, in fact.


2. Call up Dell, Gateway, etc. and ask to buy a laptop
WITHOUT Windows installed on it and your purchase
price adjusted downwards by the cost of an OEM copy
of Windows.

If you can accomplish this task in the same amount of
time as purchasing identical hardware with Windows, then
your claim will be demonstrated.



From jaketodd422 at gmail.com  Fri Dec 24 21:59:28 2010
From: jaketodd422 at gmail.com (Jacob Todd)
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 21:59:28 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=ySb1g5+mCDUVh4mGn-mDAyXuakGAK7FvQF8+C@mail.gmail.com>

That's not a monopoly. A monopoly is when a firm has enough control over (a)
product(s) that it can determine terms in which individuals have access the
product. You can buy laptops, desktops, &c without windows on it, maybe not
from your favourite brand X, but you can buy computers without windows on
it.
On Dec 24, 2010 9:43 PM, "Aaron Kulkis" <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:


From smunro622 at gmail.com  Fri Dec 24 22:05:33 2010
From: smunro622 at gmail.com (Stuart Munro)
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 22:05:33 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=ySb1g5+mCDUVh4mGn-mDAyXuakGAK7FvQF8+C@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=ySb1g5+mCDUVh4mGn-mDAyXuakGAK7FvQF8+C@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimvd3QpX-RxWNyPMxK8DhTcyLS3BL4pKi2AAhcW@mail.gmail.com>

all you have to do is not accept the EULA and notify the supplier and they
will send you a check so you can buy your favorite X brand and not pay for
windows....
I took about 3 months to get eh check but i did get it...

On Fri, Dec 24, 2010 at 9:59 PM, Jacob Todd <jaketodd422 at gmail.com> wrote:

> That's not a monopoly. A monopoly is when a firm has enough control over
> (a)
> product(s) that it can determine terms in which individuals have access the
> product. You can buy laptops, desktops, &c without windows on it, maybe not
> from your favourite brand X, but you can buy computers without windows on
> it.
> On Dec 24, 2010 9:43 PM, "Aaron Kulkis" <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>



-- 
A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a "Yes"
merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble.
-- Mahatma Gandhi


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Fri Dec 24 23:19:28 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 23:19:28 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimvd3QpX-RxWNyPMxK8DhTcyLS3BL4pKi2AAhcW@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=ySb1g5+mCDUVh4mGn-mDAyXuakGAK7FvQF8+C@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimvd3QpX-RxWNyPMxK8DhTcyLS3BL4pKi2AAhcW@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D1570D0.5060708@gmail.com>

Stuart Munro wrote:
> all you have to do is not accept the EULA and notify the supplier and they
> will send you a check so you can buy your favorite X brand and not pay for
> windows....
> I took about 3 months to get eh check but i did get it...
> 

When you have to jump through such hoops to NOT buy something
then yes, the product which you do NOT WANT TO BUY is a monopoly.

Any reasonable person can see that.

> On Fri, Dec 24, 2010 at 9:59 PM, Jacob Todd <jaketodd422 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> That's not a monopoly. A monopoly is when a firm has enough control over
>> (a)
>> product(s) that it can determine terms in which individuals have access the
>> product. You can buy laptops, desktops, &c without windows on it, maybe not
>> from your favourite brand X, but you can buy computers without windows on
>> it.

Again, where can I buy a laptop without Windows on it..
WITHOUT having to beg for my money back?

>> On Dec 24, 2010 9:43 PM, "Aaron Kulkis" <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:


From tesral at wowway.com  Sat Dec 25 00:10:05 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2010 00:10:05 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
In-Reply-To: <4D1570D0.5060708@gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=ySb1g5+mCDUVh4mGn-mDAyXuakGAK7FvQF8+C@mail.gmail.com>	<AANLkTimvd3QpX-RxWNyPMxK8DhTcyLS3BL4pKi2AAhcW@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D1570D0.5060708@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D157CAD.3050403@wowway.com>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> When you have to jump through such hoops to NOT buy something
> then yes, the product which you do NOT WANT TO BUY is a monopoly.
>
> Any reasonable person can see that.
>   

Actually the US courts said so.  Dubya forced the justice department to
drop the court ordered judgment against Microsoft.  I have not forgotten
this.

Windows meets all the requirements for a monopoly in the legal sense. 

The hoops I had to jump through to get a non-windows laptop were pretty
amazing.  However I did.  I should not have to refuse a EULA and hope
for a refund on a product I do not want and do not need.  That is non
competitive as the courts decided. 

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Those persons, or societies, easily offended need to be offended until they get over it.
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From petertheplumber at att.net  Sat Dec 25 10:08:13 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2010 10:08:13 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
In-Reply-To: <4D1570D0.5060708@gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=ySb1g5+mCDUVh4mGn-mDAyXuakGAK7FvQF8+C@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimvd3QpX-RxWNyPMxK8DhTcyLS3BL4pKi2AAhcW@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D1570D0.5060708@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1293289693.4726.137.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

On Fri, 2010-12-24 at 23:19 -0500, Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> Stuart Munro wrote:
> > all you have to do is not accept the EULA and notify the supplier and they
> > will send you a check so you can buy your favorite X brand and not pay for
> > windows....
> > I took about 3 months to get eh check but i did get it...
> > 
> 
> When you have to jump through such hoops to NOT buy something
> then yes, the product which you do NOT WANT TO BUY is a monopoly.
> 
> Any reasonable person can see that.
> 
> > On Fri, Dec 24, 2010 at 9:59 PM, Jacob Todd <jaketodd422 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> That's not a monopoly. A monopoly is when a firm has enough control over
> >> (a)
> >> product(s) that it can determine terms in which individuals have access the
> >> product. You can buy laptops, desktops, &c without windows on it, maybe not
> >> from your favourite brand X, but you can buy computers without windows on
> >> it.
> 
> Again, where can I buy a laptop without Windows on it..
> WITHOUT having to beg for my money back?

<http://www.computerdirectcorp.com/cdproductcatalog/defaultfront.asp>
-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 25 10:37:57 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2010 10:37:57 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
In-Reply-To: <4D157CAD.3050403@wowway.com>
References: <AANLkTi=ySb1g5+mCDUVh4mGn-mDAyXuakGAK7FvQF8+C@mail.gmail.com>	<AANLkTimvd3QpX-RxWNyPMxK8DhTcyLS3BL4pKi2AAhcW@mail.gmail.com>	<4D1570D0.5060708@gmail.com>
	<4D157CAD.3050403@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <4D160FD5.5090909@gmail.com>

Garry Stahl wrote:
> Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>> When you have to jump through such hoops to NOT buy something
>> then yes, the product which you do NOT WANT TO BUY is a monopoly.
>>
>> Any reasonable person can see that.
>>   
> 
> Actually the US courts said so.  Dubya forced the justice department to
> drop the court ordered judgment against Microsoft.  I have not forgotten
> this.
> 
> Windows meets all the requirements for a monopoly in the legal sense. 
> 
> The hoops I had to jump through to get a non-windows laptop were pretty
> amazing.  However I did.  I should not have to refuse a EULA and hope
> for a refund on a product I do not want and do not need.  That is non
> competitive as the courts decided. 
> 

In fact, tortuous interference of trade, if any competent
civil litigator would take up such a case.

Oh wait.  Digital Research already made that point and won the
case in the DR DOS suit.   (Despite MS dragging it out for 10
years)


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 25 10:38:14 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2010 10:38:14 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
In-Reply-To: <4D157CAD.3050403@wowway.com>
References: <AANLkTi=ySb1g5+mCDUVh4mGn-mDAyXuakGAK7FvQF8+C@mail.gmail.com>	<AANLkTimvd3QpX-RxWNyPMxK8DhTcyLS3BL4pKi2AAhcW@mail.gmail.com>	<4D1570D0.5060708@gmail.com>
	<4D157CAD.3050403@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <4D160FE6.3050408@gmail.com>

Garry Stahl wrote:
> Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>> When you have to jump through such hoops to NOT buy something
>> then yes, the product which you do NOT WANT TO BUY is a monopoly.
>>
>> Any reasonable person can see that.
>>   
> 
> Actually the US courts said so.  Dubya forced the justice department to
> drop the court ordered judgment against Microsoft.  I have not forgotten
> this.
> 
> Windows meets all the requirements for a monopoly in the legal sense. 
> 
> The hoops I had to jump through to get a non-windows laptop were pretty
> amazing.  However I did.  I should not have to refuse a EULA and hope
> for a refund on a product I do not want and do not need.  That is non
> competitive as the courts decided. 
> 

In fact, tortuous interference of trade, if any competent
civil litigator would take up such a case.

Oh wait.  Digital Research already made that point and won the
case in the DR DOS suit.   (Despite MS dragging it out for years
and years)


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 25 13:30:11 2010
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2010 13:30:11 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=F3CffYoqBGoxjA9QJA2opxi_DCpZpWhZXRqOH@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=F3CffYoqBGoxjA9QJA2opxi_DCpZpWhZXRqOH@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinpMN_ZqLK-cQ-XGEWf8d7PZhXVSn1za=5LtHrW@mail.gmail.com>

--- Michael Rudas wrote:

> Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
[...]
> Somehow, I doubt that Windows on ARM is gonna fly...

An issue with this that has not really been mentioned here is that not
only would ARM be a whole new ecosystem for MS (Windows Phone 7 barely
counts), but it would mean that anybody that creates third-party
software for Windows would have to create multiple binaries--a lack of
available third-party software could doom Windows-on-ARM almost from
the start.  Another mystery--exactly how MUCH of Windows is hard-coded
to the x86 architecture?  It can't ALL be written in high-level
languages.

~~ Michael Rudas
?? My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
?? My software blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com
?? My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/protop
?? http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey


From petertheplumber at att.net  Sat Dec 25 21:01:16 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2010 21:01:16 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Android Bluetooth Trouble Using In Car Volkwagen Handsfree
Message-ID: <1293328876.4726.516.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

Hello Everyone,
	I have a Samsung Galaxy S; aka Samsung Captivate SGH-I897; that I'm
trying to get to work with a 2011 Volkswagen Tiguan's mobile phone
package. The handset has firmware v2.1-update1. I can get the phone/car
bluetooth to pair and set each as trusted. The phone basic information
shows up in the drivers instrument cluster and the phone reports paired
as well. But that's where it ends. I can't make or receive calls via the
cars handsfree system. Incoming calls go to the handset. Attempting to
call out with the cars call buttons results in an error message on the
cars display. When I leave the car the phone becomes very sluggish to
operate, sometimes stopping responding at all. When I can see the screen
the bluetooth icon looks like it has white dots on either side of it. If
I can catch it in time, disabling bluetooth brings the phone back into
regular operation. If I don't, the only thing I can do is pop the
battery out.
	I've looked around a little and here's what I know. Volkwagen uses both
the Parrot and Volk-L bluetooth adapter. I do not yet know which I have.
There seems to be a bit of a problem with some Android handsets
connecting to some European made cars
<http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=4402&q=label%
3APriority-Medium&colspec=ID>. The same Samsung handset had full
functionality with an Alpine CDE-103BT that used Parrot's bluetooth
adapter. I can pair and use my Nokia E66 with the Volkwagen no problem.
	I've seen some references to a Parrot bluetooth kit working, but I
don't yet know which one. The Parrot CK3000 seems like a likely
contender <http://www.quickconnectproducts.com/Find/VWsteer2.htm>. I've
seen references in the android market to fixes
<http://www.androlib.com/android.application.com-phk-bluetoothfixrepairdonate-zmFDC.aspx>. It seems to require a rooted handset. I'm not opposed to that. I've seen a reference that an "unlocked" handset works <http://www.mytreg.com/index.php?/topic/7529-samsung-galaxy-s-rsap/page__view__findpost__p__68898>. I've seen a reference that a new bluetooth "module" is available from VW <http://www.mytreg.com/index.php?/topic/7529-samsung-galaxy-s-rsap/page__view__findpost__p__68593>.
	Ok so I'm overwhelmed, anyone have any suggestions?


-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber



From petertheplumber at att.net  Sun Dec 26 21:05:59 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2010 21:05:59 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Android Bluetooth Trouble Using In Car Volkwagen
 Handsfree Solved?
In-Reply-To: <1293328876.4726.516.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
References: <1293328876.4726.516.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <1293415559.4726.526.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

On Sat, 2010-12-25 at 21:01 -0500, Peter Bart wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
> 	I have a Samsung Galaxy S; aka Samsung Captivate SGH-I897; that I'm
> trying to get to work with a 2011 Volkswagen Tiguan's mobile phone
> package. The handset has firmware v2.1-update1. I can get the phone/car
> bluetooth to pair and set each as trusted. The phone basic information
> shows up in the drivers instrument cluster and the phone reports paired
> as well. But that's where it ends. I can't make or receive calls via the
> cars handsfree system. Incoming calls go to the handset. Attempting to
> call out with the cars call buttons results in an error message on the
> cars display. When I leave the car the phone becomes very sluggish to
> operate, sometimes stopping responding at all. When I can see the screen
> the bluetooth icon looks like it has white dots on either side of it. If
> I can catch it in time, disabling bluetooth brings the phone back into
> regular operation. If I don't, the only thing I can do is pop the
> battery out.
> 	I've looked around a little and here's what I know. Volkwagen uses both
> the Parrot and Volk-L bluetooth adapter. I do not yet know which I have.
> There seems to be a bit of a problem with some Android handsets
> connecting to some European made cars
> <http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=4402&q=label%
> 3APriority-Medium&colspec=ID>. The same Samsung handset had full
> functionality with an Alpine CDE-103BT that used Parrot's bluetooth
> adapter. I can pair and use my Nokia E66 with the Volkwagen no problem.
> 	I've seen some references to a Parrot bluetooth kit working, but I
> don't yet know which one. The Parrot CK3000 seems like a likely
> contender <http://www.quickconnectproducts.com/Find/VWsteer2.htm>. I've
> seen references in the android market to fixes
> <http://www.androlib.com/android.application.com-phk-bluetoothfixrepairdonate-zmFDC.aspx>. It seems to require a rooted handset. I'm not opposed to that. I've seen a reference that an "unlocked" handset works <http://www.mytreg.com/index.php?/topic/7529-samsung-galaxy-s-rsap/page__view__findpost__p__68898>. I've seen a reference that a new bluetooth "module" is available from VW <http://www.mytreg.com/index.php?/topic/7529-samsung-galaxy-s-rsap/page__view__findpost__p__68593>.
> 	Ok so I'm overwhelmed, anyone have any suggestions?
> 
> 
	This seems to have resolved itself???? I cleared all saved bluetooth
profiles from previous pairing attempts. I then initiated pairing from
the car, not the phone. It didn't take immediately, but after several
power cycles on the car it just worked. I'm still stumped. I do know
that now; in the bluetooth settings; under options of the VW Phone
device, Use for phone audio is checked and active. It never was before
and in fact refused to activate. The phonebook downloaded no problem and
I've checked it three times tonight. Each time shutting the car off and
getting the handset out of range. Each time the car found and connected
the handset w/o any problems. All functions appeared to work, calls were
placed and received. 
	Was it really that simple to fix? Anyone?
-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber



From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Mon Dec 27 08:51:08 2010
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 08:51:08 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] SEMCO SIG-Linux meeting reminder
Message-ID: <AANLkTimVoCg980T3hKVjMMHjktqBvViePR3yRUVLmTsS@mail.gmail.com>

Our next SEMCO SIG-Linux meeting has a new location, just north of our
most recent meeting locations.

We are now meeting at the "Motor City Free Geeks" facility at 1511
Jarvis (the corner of Jarvis and Wanda) in Ferndale.  There is a
traffic light at that corner.
<http://www.motorcityfreegeek.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=106&Itemid=55>
My planned presentation is "Starting with a lightweight Linux" and Ken
of "Motor City Free Geeks" will talk about electronics recycling--the
two topics are somewhat related.

You don't have to be a member of either group to attend the meeting,
but like-minded folks are always appreciated!

~~ Michael Rudas
?? My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
?? My software blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com
?? My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/protop
?? http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Mon Dec 27 08:55:26 2010
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 08:55:26 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] SEMCO SIG-Linux meeting (date & time)
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=VUFy7+GhGBaW_w3P8BdMY4M7kpmqhPuM6j-bU@mail.gmail.com>

Oops!  Addendum: The meeting is at 6:45 p.m. on Tuesday, December 28th.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Our next SEMCO SIG-Linux meeting has a new location, just north of our
most recent meeting locations.

We are now meeting at the "Motor City Free Geeks" facility at 1511
Jarvis (the corner of Jarvis and Wanda) in Ferndale.  There is a
traffic light at that corner.
<http://www.motorcityfreegeek.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=106&Itemid=55>
My planned presentation is "Starting with a lightweight Linux" and Ken
of "Motor City Free Geeks" will talk about electronics recycling--the
two topics are somewhat related.

You don't have to be a member of either group to attend the meeting,
but like-minded folks are always appreciated!

~~ Michael Rudas
   My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
   My software blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com
   My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/protop
   http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey


From radkins at impelind.com  Mon Dec 27 09:00:45 2010
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins II)
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 09:00:45 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinbt4RADeKps7sJUYAsNhjs-wbz32_taN7=tQ-0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=F3CffYoqBGoxjA9QJA2opxi_DCpZpWhZXRqOH@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinbt4RADeKps7sJUYAsNhjs-wbz32_taN7=tQ-0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7E0B62DF6D6741658BD7ED698E0099C2@Delta7>

Seriously?

After all this time and the legal findings that showed, not just in the US,
but in Europe, that Microsoft did indeed hold a monopoly on the market and
did indeed abuse their monopoly powers, there are those who will post to a
Linux Users Group list things like this?

It's bizarre. Extremely bizarre. Honestly, I don't give a crap that MS had a
monopoly or that they abused it. Just denying that it existed is like
denying the fact that the United States used Atomic Bombs on the Japanese in
WWII.

-Rob
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Jacob Todd
> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 4:15 PM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
> 
> Seeing that there was no monopoly to begin with, no.
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 



From jaketodd422 at gmail.com  Mon Dec 27 10:45:42 2010
From: jaketodd422 at gmail.com (Jacob Todd)
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 10:45:42 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
In-Reply-To: <7E0B62DF6D6741658BD7ED698E0099C2@Delta7>
References: <AANLkTi=F3CffYoqBGoxjA9QJA2opxi_DCpZpWhZXRqOH@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinbt4RADeKps7sJUYAsNhjs-wbz32_taN7=tQ-0@mail.gmail.com>
	<7E0B62DF6D6741658BD7ED698E0099C2@Delta7>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinj+cHH9aPqgedTXNWiO_jCRKjaogr9LSc+uOHP@mail.gmail.com>

No it's not. Any sane economist will tell you they didn't have a monopoly,
alart from the patent and copyright monopoly, which was established by the
gov't.

/thread
On Dec 27, 2010 9:01 AM, "Robert Adkins II" <radkins at impelind.com> wrote:
> Seriously?
>
> After all this time and the legal findings that showed, not just in the
US,
> but in Europe, that Microsoft did indeed hold a monopoly on the market and
> did indeed abuse their monopoly powers, there are those who will post to a
> Linux Users Group list things like this?
>
> It's bizarre. Extremely bizarre. Honestly, I don't give a crap that MS had
a
> monopoly or that they abused it. Just denying that it existed is like
> denying the fact that the United States used Atomic Bombs on the Japanese
in
> WWII.
>
> -Rob
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org
>> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Jacob Todd
>> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 4:15 PM
>> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
>> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
>>
>> Seeing that there was no monopoly to begin with, no.
>> _______________________________________________
>> mdlug mailing list
>> mdlug at mdlug.org
>> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From radkins at impelind.com  Mon Dec 27 12:20:01 2010
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins II)
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 12:20:01 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinj+cHH9aPqgedTXNWiO_jCRKjaogr9LSc+uOHP@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=F3CffYoqBGoxjA9QJA2opxi_DCpZpWhZXRqOH@mail.gmail.com><AANLkTinbt4RADeKps7sJUYAsNhjs-wbz32_taN7=tQ-0@mail.gmail.com><7E0B62DF6D6741658BD7ED698E0099C2@Delta7>
	<AANLkTinj+cHH9aPqgedTXNWiO_jCRKjaogr9LSc+uOHP@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <14ADCD2C039340859796E71B85B51024@Delta7>

Oh, so now any economist who disagrees or follows with the legal finding of
fact in the court case against Microsoft is suggested to be something other
than sane.

Ad hominem attacks do nothing to help your assertion.

The facts are that the courts found Microsoft to have a monopoly and also
that they abused that monopoly. End of story. 

Things have changed (a little) in the marketplace since then. Part of the
reason things have changed is partly due to the restrictions that have been
placed upon Microsoft, primarily in Europe. (I don't believe any such
restrictions have been placed on Microsoft in the US.)

-Rob



 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Jacob Todd
> Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 10:46 AM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
> 
> No it's not. Any sane economist will tell you they didn't 
> have a monopoly, alart from the patent and copyright 
> monopoly, which was established by the gov't.
> 
> /thread
> On Dec 27, 2010 9:01 AM, "Robert Adkins II" 
> <radkins at impelind.com> wrote:
> > Seriously?
> >
> > After all this time and the legal findings that showed, not just in 
> > the
> US,
> > but in Europe, that Microsoft did indeed hold a monopoly on 
> the market 
> > and did indeed abuse their monopoly powers, there are those 
> who will 
> > post to a Linux Users Group list things like this?
> >
> > It's bizarre. Extremely bizarre. Honestly, I don't give a 
> crap that MS 
> > had
> a
> > monopoly or that they abused it. Just denying that it 
> existed is like 
> > denying the fact that the United States used Atomic Bombs on the 
> > Japanese
> in
> > WWII.
> >
> > -Rob
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org
> >> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Jacob Todd
> >> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 4:15 PM
> >> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> >> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
> >>
> >> Seeing that there was no monopoly to begin with, no.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> mdlug mailing list
> >> mdlug at mdlug.org
> >> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > mdlug mailing list
> > mdlug at mdlug.org
> > http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 



From gib at juno.com  Tue Dec 28 10:31:51 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2010 15:31:51 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] SEMCO SIG-Linux meeting (date & time)
Message-ID: <20101228.103151.6000.0@webmail16.vgs.untd.com>

I'm out of town so I won't be able to make it.  Sound like a good meeting.

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Michael Rudas <audiotech50 at gmail.com>
To: "MDLUG's Main discussion list" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: [mdlug] SEMCO SIG-Linux meeting (date & time)
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 08:55:26 -0500

Oops!  Addendum: The meeting is at 6:45 p.m. on Tuesday, December 28th.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Our next SEMCO SIG-Linux meeting has a new location, just north of our
most recent meeting locations.

We are now meeting at the "Motor City Free Geeks" facility at 1511
Jarvis (the corner of Jarvis and Wanda) in Ferndale.  There is a
traffic light at that corner.
<http://www.motorcityfreegeek.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=106&Itemid=55>
My planned presentation is "Starting with a lightweight Linux" and Ken
of "Motor City Free Geeks" will talk about electronics recycling--the
two topics are somewhat related.

You don't have to be a member of either group to attend the meeting,
but like-minded folks are always appreciated!

~~ Michael Rudas
   My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
   My software blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com
   My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/protop
   http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


____________________________________________________________
Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance
If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4d1a0355a8efc92ba64st06vuc


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Tue Dec 28 18:31:51 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2010 18:31:51 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Recovering a stolen computer over the Internet
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikk-=CHwBTRk9Ugew04SFhF_7x7fTPpksxHbhCN@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikk-=CHwBTRk9Ugew04SFhF_7x7fTPpksxHbhCN@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTins_r2YrS4S9ujzYomkY5sLtMRBz7Y2nEAtpW4=@mail.gmail.com>

While this is a Mac system the use of SSH makes for an entertaining story:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4oB28ksiIo&feature=player_embedded


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Dec 29 18:34:54 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2010 18:34:54 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Need an iptables rule for bypassing a proxy
Message-ID: <AANLkTimA+e5x-g72yD7BU+xcJrynkX6Vr1OJ57wW07DD@mail.gmail.com>

I've got DansGuardian on 8080 -> Squid on 3128.  Firefox is set to use
8080 as its proxy.  I need a rule to bypass DG and connect to Squid
directly.  I tried this but it doesn't work:

iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -i lo -p tcp --dport 8080 -j REDIRECT
--to-port 3128

Didn't work with eth0 either.  Firefox reports it doesn't get a
response from the proxy.

The idea here is to bypass DG without having to change Firefox's proxy settings.

(I tried to post this to the mailing list at lugwash.org but their
server is down again.)


From jbroughton at twmi.rr.com  Fri Dec 31 19:08:18 2010
From: jbroughton at twmi.rr.com (Jim Broughton)
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 19:08:18 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Need an iptables rule for bypassing a proxy
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimA+e5x-g72yD7BU+xcJrynkX6Vr1OJ57wW07DD@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimA+e5x-g72yD7BU+xcJrynkX6Vr1OJ57wW07DD@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D1E7072.9040208@twmi.rr.com>

On 12/29/2010 06:34 PM, Jeff Hanson wrote:
> I've got DansGuardian on 8080 ->  Squid on 3128.  Firefox is set to use
> 8080 as its proxy.  I need a rule to bypass DG and connect to Squid
> directly.  I tried this but it doesn't work:
>
> iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -i lo -p tcp --dport 8080 -j REDIRECT
> --to-port 3128
>
> Didn't work with eth0 either.  Firefox reports it doesn't get a
> response from the proxy.
>
> The idea here is to bypass DG without having to change Firefox's proxy settings.
>
> (I tried to post this to the mailing list at lugwash.org but their
> server is down again.)
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
I think if you replace the -i lo with -s 192.168.0.x (or whatever you use as the
machines IP address) you should be all set.

The iptables command you have in your email executes with "-i lo" replaced
with "-s 192.168.0.24" (my machines local ip address for eth0) and returns
no errors. Give it a shot.

Of course I may be wrong but give it a try. If not we'll try something else.

Jim



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Fri Dec 31 20:22:26 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 20:22:26 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Need an iptables rule for bypassing a proxy
In-Reply-To: <4D1E7072.9040208@twmi.rr.com>
References: <AANLkTimA+e5x-g72yD7BU+xcJrynkX6Vr1OJ57wW07DD@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D1E7072.9040208@twmi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikyUw98RS+jVzZm6KE9yVnxJgumkFU4tpsysV8Y@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 7:08 PM, Jim Broughton <jbroughton at twmi.rr.com> wrote:
> I think if you replace the -i lo with -s 192.168.0.x (or whatever you use as
> the
> machines IP address) you should be all set.
>
> The iptables command you have in your email executes with "-i lo" replaced
> with "-s 192.168.0.24" (my machines local ip address for eth0) and returns
> no errors. Give it a shot.
>
> Of course I may be wrong but give it a try. If not we'll try something else.
>

Thanks.  I did get an answer from the Netfilter IRC that worked:
OUTPUT -p tcp -m tcp --dport 8080 -j REDIRECT --to-ports 3128

Basically I needed the output chain, not preroute.  This works locally
which solves my problem.  I'm not sure if it would work on a
firewall/proxy/router with a downstream PC.


From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Thu Dec  2 08:45:18 2010
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 08:45:18 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] pam_mkhomedir and NFS mounted home dirs *update*
References: <C5840664FDFB4E6983BC5C093E464974@homepc>
	<AANLkTikA99WRbTxYwh6uJKYaqwq-YHdK6JfGKyucBHYV@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7F0DDC5BF90148179AFEDB012F207954@homepc>

I found a work around for this issue.  On one of the servers in the 
management zone, I changed the exports to be "no_root_squash", and I added 
the pam_mkhomedir with the correct permissions.  Now the user just needs to 
login to that box first, and the home dirs get created successfully.

-Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeff Hanson" <jhansonxi at gmail.com>
To: "MDLUG's Main discussion list" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 12:24 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] pam_mkhomedir and NFS mounted home dirs


On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 10:54 PM, Michael ORourke
<mrorourke at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Lug Nuts,
>
> While setting up a LDAP server to authenticate user accounts, I decided to
> try and add a centralized NFS /home server too. But when I added the
> pam_mkhomedir directive to the /etc/pam.d/system-auth-ac file, the nfs
> mounted home dirs would get created as user nobody, which caused the
> directory to not be writeable by the user. After a bit of digging, I found
> that if I changed the exported home filesystem attributes from root_squash
> to no_root_squash, then the home dir would get created with the correct
> ownership and the user could now write to their home directory. However,
> for security reasons it is recommended that you do not mount the home
> directories with no_root_squash. So my other work around was to not use
> pam_mkhomedir and just create the home directories on the nfs server at 
> the
> same time I add an account in LDAP.
> I'm curious if anyone else has run into this problem before?
>

I think the issue with no_root_squash is that it is easy for anyone to
become root on another PC and connect as such to the export with the
default authentication (IP/UID).  They could just as easily connect as
an allowed UID and cause just as much damage unless everything is
root-owned non-writable.  If you are restricting it to use some real
authentication then it's not a problem.

On Ubuntu 9.10 with an 9.04 server I'm using root_squash for
everything except a tftp server root and /export pseudo-fs.  I've got
everything explicitly exported on separate dirs but that's probably
unnecessary with /export.  I'm just using libpam-mount on the client
to mount everything at login.

To verify what the exports are actually using check /var/lib/nfs/etab
as this will include the defaults assumed.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


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From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Thu Dec  2 10:47:29 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2010 10:47:29 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] pam_mkhomedir and NFS mounted home dirs *update*
In-Reply-To: <7F0DDC5BF90148179AFEDB012F207954@homepc>
References: <C5840664FDFB4E6983BC5C093E464974@homepc>	<AANLkTikA99WRbTxYwh6uJKYaqwq-YHdK6JfGKyucBHYV@mail.gmail.com>
	<7F0DDC5BF90148179AFEDB012F207954@homepc>
Message-ID: <4CF7BF91.9050808@gmail.com>

Michael ORourke wrote:
> I found a work around for this issue.  On one of the servers in the 
> management zone, I changed the exports to be "no_root_squash", and I added 
> the pam_mkhomedir with the correct permissions.  Now the user just needs to 
> login to that box first, and the home dirs get created successfully.
> 

That's not a work-around.. that's how it SHOULD be set up.

no_root_squash is a work-around to hide poor security.


From mark.stanislav at gmail.com  Fri Dec  3 14:39:17 2010
From: mark.stanislav at gmail.com (Mark Stanislav)
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 14:39:17 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Fwd: Job Opening for a Systems Administrator - Chicago,
	IL.
References: <5CF307D4969EB44EBAEDD4DD94098E6B01C259EC@rsmail01.redsalsa.com>
Message-ID: <E1F3D905-272B-4314-9292-471E476E4867@gmail.com>

Anyone want to get over to Chicago :)?

Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Vinod Kumar" <k_vinod at redsalsa.com>
> Date: December 3, 2010 2:31:38 PM EST
> To: <mark.stanislav at gmail.com>
> Subject: Job Opening for a Systems Administrator - Chicago, IL.
> 
> Hi,
> 
> This is Vinod Kumar from RedSalsa Technologies, Inc. We have an urgent job opening with our direct client.
> 
> The details of the position are as mentioned below:
> 
> Position        : Systems Administrator. 
> Location        : Chicago, IL. 
> Duration        : 6-12 months Contract.
> 
> Note: Weblogic Admin experience in addition to Systems Admin experience will be a major plus.
> 
> Position Summary:
> 
> Client is looking for an experienced System Administrator to join our dynamic team building large-scale SOA based systems.
> Candidates who have deep understanding and hands-on experience configuring, troubleshooting performance tuning large server environments and willing to administer a large server farm that uses several different open sources will be considered for this position.
> This is a hands-on position combining Linux system administration and Java/J2EE application and open source technologies administration.
> 
> Responsibilities:
> 
> Install and configure Red Hat Enterprise 5 and Solaris 10 in a 100+ server farm.
> Work with Information Systems group in providing deployment diagrams and help setting up and configuring the systems.
> Troubleshoot and resolve reported system problems.
> Perform system monitoring and performance tuning to meet required SLA and performance targets.
> Assist system and application architects during capacity planning activities.
> Document and explain implemented processes and configurations.
> Support development, testing, and operations teams during new system deployments.
> Evaluate and propose new tools and technologies to meet the needs of the organization.
> Work with network and system engineers to define optimum network configurations.
> Write scripts to automate application deployments and configurations.
> Provide weekly status reports to project managers describing accomplishments.
> Follow department quality assurance guidelines and processes.
> 
> Requirements:
> 
> 5+ years of experience administering Unix/Linux based systems. RHCE certification is a plus.
> Strong experience with RedHat Enterprise Linux .4 and Solaris 10 is a plus.
> Strong experience in building and configuring traffic heavy TCP/IP networks.
> Experience in using and setting up virtualized environments running on VMware.
> Experience in defining firewall and load balancing rules and configurations.
> Proven track record of administering large scale and high performance Internet applications.
> Ability to learn, apply and explain new tools and technologies quickly.
> Strong experience in performance tuning highly concurrent Java applications running on Linux and x86.
> Familiarity with popular JMS implementations such as JBoss Messaging Service and Apache Qpid.
> Working knowledge of JBoss Application Server and Tomcat.
> Working knowledge of Oracle Service Bus or Open Source Mule ESB is a big plus.
> Familiarity with Apache Hadoop, HDFS, HBase, Solr, and Lucene is a big plus.
> Familiarity with Oracle 10g/11g and PostgreSQL databases.
> Strong knowledge of Microsoft Word, Excel, Visio and UML modeling tools.
> Strong interpersonal, written and verbal communication skills.
> Creative, problem-solving approach with developed multi-tasking ability.
> Ability to effectively function in a fast-paced and constantly changing environment.
> 
> 
> If interested, please send a reply with your updated word format resume and the following details:
> 
> Full Name: 
> Phone Number: 
> Email ID: 
> Expected Payrate: 
> Availability: 
> Current Location: 
> Visa Status: 
> Relocation:
> 
> Awaiting your reply?
> 
> Thanks & Regards,
> Vinod Kumar | Sr. IT Recruiter
> RedSalsa Technologies Inc.
> 13800 Montfort Drive Suite 230
> Dallas, Texas 75240.
> Phone: 972.636.5239
> Fax: 972.503.7900
> k_vinod at redsalsa.com
> www.redsalsa.com
> 
> Note: We respect your on-line privacy. This is not an unsolicited mail. Under Bill 1618 Title III passed by the 105th US Congress this mail cannot be considered Spam as long as we include contact information and a method to be removed from our mailing list. If you are not interested in receiving our e-mails then please reply with a "REMOVE" in the subject line. Sorry for the inconvenience caused.
> 



From danno at umich.edu  Fri Dec  3 18:04:02 2010
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 18:04:02 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] pam_mkhomedir and NFS mounted home dirs *update*
In-Reply-To: <4CF7BF91.9050808@gmail.com>
References: <C5840664FDFB4E6983BC5C093E464974@homepc>	<AANLkTikA99WRbTxYwh6uJKYaqwq-YHdK6JfGKyucBHYV@mail.gmail.com>
	<7F0DDC5BF90148179AFEDB012F207954@homepc>
	<4CF7BF91.9050808@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA340A4C-9842-487E-8296-F74A38E3F76C@umich.edu>

feh, NFS (as generally deployed, perhaps not including NFS4) is swiss cheese anyway.

On Dec 2, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> no_root_squash is a work-around to hide poor security.



From gib at juno.com  Tue Dec  7 07:55:24 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2010 12:55:24 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] FYI: Ohio LinuxFest 2011
Message-ID: <20101207.075524.6980.0@webmail04.vgs.untd.com>


FYI
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
From: Kevin O'Brien <zwilnik at zwilnik.com>
To: larry at njlinux.org, president at cantonlinux.org, colugx at colug.net,  dharris9 at mix.wvu.edu, info at silug.org, ssharkey at lanshark.com,  DLUG-Contact at dma.org, info at luni.org, kluug at kent.edu,  stylinae at email.uc.edu, shaun at therabbithole.org, bryan at byhalia.net,  phillipw at neonlug.org, rmessner at neo.rr.com, eclug1 at gmail.com,  vorian at ubuntu.com, xohio at picrad.com, klug at cs.utk.edu,  appledaytonsig at dma.org, linux at sluug.org, rwcitek at alum.calberkeley.org,  kit at kitty.org, sgsax at ksu.edu, kclug at kclug.org, paulv at canonical.org,  froggy at notacon.org, sdaniels at tcmug.org,  announcements-subscribe at cojug.org, kulua at kulua.org,  JSanders at teamsol.com, lugorml at rochester.rr.com, supermegatron at gmail.com,  davem at solve.net, craig at schiffbauer.org, president at lccug.com,  mac2mac at raex.com, marvleventhal at mac.com, mark at slugbug.org,  discuss at mug.org, bob at newillmeister.com, ncmug_oh at mac.com,  webmaster at nooss.org, markymoon at mac.com, board at nopug.org,  gilbert.a.winter at grc.nasa.gov, zwilnik at zwilnik.com, samiam at gmail.com,  novalug at calypso.tux.org, pdavila at thelinuxlink.net, admin at wnylug.org,  mct at toren.net, info at wplug.org, schultmc at cinlug.org,  vceder at canterburyschool.org, petesbbq at covad.net, ndlug at nd.edu,  mdlug at mdlug.org, james.lacer at gmail.com, rozdyck at lugin.org,  three at threethirty.us, cavmen at comcast.net, chairman at trilug.org,  craig at polishcrap.com, crxssi at hotmail.com, dclug at tux.org,  eric at openthought.net, gholmer at ameritech.net, info at cdlug.net,  info at charlug.org, info at gtlug.org, jeff at elkner.net, jgleason at nylug.org,  kkleiner at mlug.missouri.edu, lclug at shanelambert.com, linux at wacug.org,  linux-user at egr.msu.edu, lugsb at ic.sunysb.edu,  nwclugadmin at harper.cc.il.us, plug at lists.wfu.edu, president at mdlug.org,  qclug at qclug.org, ripleymj at jmu.edu, ruben at mrbrklyn.com,  schmots at gmail.com, sean at dague.net, syrlug at syrlug.org, ultra at oakton.edu,  webmaster at stnylug.org, wsulug at gmail.com, ubuntu-us-mi at lists.ubuntu.com
Cc: Esther Filderman <mizmoose at gmail.com>
Subject: Ohio LinuxFest 2011
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2010 20:24:12 -0500

This is an update on Ohio LinuxFest 2011.

1. The dates are now set for Friday, 9/9/11 through Sunday 9/11/11, 
depending on which events you want to participate in. We are still 
working on lining up keynote speakers, but please feel free to mark your 
calendars now.

2. We are looking for some help from volunteers. If you have some time 
and talent to contribute, we'd love to hear from you. We have needs in a 
variety of positions, such as Security, Room checkers, T-shirt manager, 
Dot-org liaison, etc. You can find the full list, with more details, at 
https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ohiolinuxfest/index.php?title=WeNeedTo#Overall:_Staff 
. If you think you can help with one of these positions, drop me a line 
and I'll put you in touch with the right people at OLF.

3. Do you have suggestions for OLF 2011? Maybe something you want to see 
repeated, or not repeated? Please let me know. We at OLF want to offer 
the best Linux conference experience possible, but we need your help to 
make it so.

4. Finally, if you know of any LUGs or other Linux-oriented groups in 
your area that are new or otherwise not getting these messages, let me 
know. Keeping up with mailing addresses is a little tricky sometimes, 
but we want to keep everyone informed.

See you in 2011!

-- 
Kevin B. O'Brien
LUG Liaison, Ohio LinuxFest
kevin at ohiolinux.org

-- 
Kevin B. O'Brien         TANSTAAFL
zwilnik at zwilnik.com      Linux User #333216
____________________________________________________________
Amazon&#39;s Holiday Toy List
This Year&#39;s Hottest Toys & Games. Free Shipping When You Spend $75.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4cfe2ed52d65f5ac641st06vuc


From tony at bemushosting.com  Tue Dec  7 09:51:47 2010
From: tony at bemushosting.com (Tony Bemus)
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2010 09:51:47 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] MDlug December meeting
In-Reply-To: <20101207.075524.6980.0@webmail04.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20101207.075524.6980.0@webmail04.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <1291733507.6333.2.camel@bemus-remote>

Next Meeting is December 11, 2010
     This month our presentation is Introduction to Linux.  This is from
Kevin O'Brien's series of basic Linux presentations.  We are happy to
have Kevin as a guest speaker.  Kevin comes from our neighbor LUG
http://www.lugwash.org - LUGWASH

	As usual  MDLUG meets monthly at The Gaudior Academy in Inkster. At
12:30p to around 2:30p on the Second Saturday.  Gaudior Academy  is
Located at  27100 Avondale Avenue Inkster MI 48141.  Each meeting
usually begins with MDLUG business. A presentation may follow. Often
general discussions are the order of business. (Contact secretary at
mdlug.org to learn the requirements and volunteer to do a presentation.)
After the meeting, some of us usually go to a local restaurant.

Tony Bemus
secetary



From gib at juno.com  Tue Dec  7 18:54:43 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2010 23:54:43 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  MDlug December meeting
Message-ID: <20101207.185443.24545.0@webmail19.vgs.untd.com>

FYI

---------- Forwarded Message ----------
From: Tony Bemus <tony at bemushosting.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: [mdlug] MDlug December meeting
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2010 09:51:47 -0500

Next Meeting is December 11, 2010
     This month our presentation is Introduction to Linux.  This is from
Kevin O'Brien's series of basic Linux presentations.  We are happy to
have Kevin as a guest speaker.  Kevin comes from our neighbor LUG
http://www.lugwash.org - LUGWASH

	As usual  MDLUG meets monthly at The Gaudior Academy in Inkster. At
12:30p to around 2:30p on the Second Saturday.  Gaudior Academy  is
Located at  27100 Avondale Avenue Inkster MI 48141.  Each meeting
usually begins with MDLUG business. A presentation may follow. Often
general discussions are the order of business. (Contact secretary at
mdlug.org to learn the requirements and volunteer to do a presentation.)
After the meeting, some of us usually go to a local restaurant.

Tony Bemus
secetary

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


____________________________________________________________
Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance
If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4cfec985bf5d25cd8c2st04vuc


From gib at juno.com  Tue Dec  7 20:32:23 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2010 01:32:23 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] MDlug December meeting
Message-ID: <20101207.203223.23439.0@webmail01.vgs.untd.com>


Oh, and nominations for officers . . . 

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "gib at juno.com" <gib at juno.com>
To: discuss at mug.org, mdlug at mdlug.org, clyne at mich.com, richard55 at sbcglobal.net, audiotech50 at gmail.com, mdbader at flash.net
Subject: [mdlug]  MDlug December meeting
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2010 23:54:43 GMT

FYI

---------- Forwarded Message ----------
From: Tony Bemus <tony at bemushosting.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: [mdlug] MDlug December meeting
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2010 09:51:47 -0500

Next Meeting is December 11, 2010
     This month our presentation is Introduction to Linux.  This is from
Kevin O'Brien's series of basic Linux presentations.  We are happy to
have Kevin as a guest speaker.  Kevin comes from our neighbor LUG
http://www.lugwash.org - LUGWASH

	As usual  MDLUG meets monthly at The Gaudior Academy in Inkster. At
12:30p to around 2:30p on the Second Saturday.  Gaudior Academy  is
Located at  27100 Avondale Avenue Inkster MI 48141.  Each meeting
usually begins with MDLUG business. A presentation may follow. Often
general discussions are the order of business. (Contact secretary at
mdlug.org to learn the requirements and volunteer to do a presentation.)
After the meeting, some of us usually go to a local restaurant.

Tony Bemus
secetary

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


____________________________________________________________
Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance
If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4cfec985bf5d25cd8c2st04vuc
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




From tony at bemushosting.com  Wed Dec  8 10:48:26 2010
From: tony at bemushosting.com (Tony Bemus)
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2010 10:48:26 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] MDlug December meeting
In-Reply-To: <20101207.203223.23439.0@webmail01.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20101207.203223.23439.0@webmail01.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <1291823306.10206.13.camel@bemus-remote>

    As President Gib mentioned,  nominations will be herd at the
December and January meetings and also through this mailing list.  Just
remembered the nomination needs to be seconded and the nominee must
accept the nomination.  I also suggest that nominees to review the
bylaws for the job descriptions before accepting.
    Also for Elections we do accept proxy votes as long as I am notified
ahead of time.

For the Nominations and the elections here is the section from the
bylaws.(http://mdlug.org/bylaws.html  

VII. NOMINATION OF CANDIDATES
     A. Nomination of candidates for office shall be made any time prior
to the election, including at the meeting. All nominations must be
seconded (the nominee is not eligible to second themselves) and the
nominee must accept the nomination to be a candidate. Nominees need not
be present at the election.


VI. ELECTIONS
    A. MDLUG shall hold an annual election in January, performing such
business as required herein. The Secretary shall have supervision and
management of all elections.

    B. Officers shall be elected at a regular meeting of MDLUG by the
attending members. The attending members may cast votes for themselves
and may act as a proxy for others. In the case of a proxy vote, the
member wishing to have a proxy vote in his/her stead must notify the
Secretary in writing prior to the election. This notification may be in
the form of an email. The Secretary shall note the name of the member
asking to use a proxy and the name of the member who will cast the proxy
vote at the meeting. The Secretary shall oversee the specific details of
the election.

Tony Bemus
MDLUG Secretary


On Wed, 2010-12-08 at 01:32 +0000, gib at juno.com wrote:
> Oh, and nominations for officers . . . 
> 
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: "gib at juno.com" <gib at juno.com>
> To: discuss at mug.org, mdlug at mdlug.org, clyne at mich.com, richard55 at sbcglobal.net, audiotech50 at gmail.com, mdbader at flash.net
> Subject: [mdlug]  MDlug December meeting
> Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2010 23:54:43 GMT
> 
> FYI
> 
> ---------- Forwarded Message ----------
> From: Tony Bemus <tony at bemushosting.com>
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Subject: [mdlug] MDlug December meeting
> Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2010 09:51:47 -0500
> 
> Next Meeting is December 11, 2010
>      This month our presentation is Introduction to Linux.  This is from
> Kevin O'Brien's series of basic Linux presentations.  We are happy to
> have Kevin as a guest speaker.  Kevin comes from our neighbor LUG
> http://www.lugwash.org - LUGWASH
> 
> 	As usual  MDLUG meets monthly at The Gaudior Academy in Inkster. At
> 12:30p to around 2:30p on the Second Saturday.  Gaudior Academy  is
> Located at  27100 Avondale Avenue Inkster MI 48141.  Each meeting
> usually begins with MDLUG business. A presentation may follow. Often
> general discussions are the order of business. (Contact secretary at
> mdlug.org to learn the requirements and volunteer to do a presentation.)
> After the meeting, some of us usually go to a local restaurant.
> 
> Tony Bemus
> secetary
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance
> If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4cfec985bf5d25cd8c2st04vuc
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




From tony at bemushosting.com  Sat Dec 11 12:29:15 2010
From: tony at bemushosting.com (Tony Bemus)
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2010 12:29:15 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] MDlug December meeting
Message-ID: <0MFtvS-1PfAMw0yLm-00FOJ8@mrelay.perfora.net>

Running late, i will be there

Tony Bemus
Sent from my smartphone

-----Original Message-----
From: gib at juno.com <gib at juno.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2010 8:32 PM
To: mdlug at mdlug.org
Cc: richard55 at sbcglobal.net; clyne at mich.com; discuss at mug.org; mdlug at mdlug.org
Subject: Re: [mdlug] MDlug December meeting


Oh, and nominations for officers . . . 

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "gib at juno.com" <gib at juno.com>
To: discuss at mug.org, mdlug at mdlug.org, clyne at mich.com, richard55 at sbcglobal.net, audiotech50 at gmail.com, mdbader at flash.net
Subject: [mdlug]  MDlug December meeting
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2010 23:54:43 GMT

FYI

---------- Forwarded Message ----------
From: Tony Bemus <tony at bemushosting.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: [mdlug] MDlug December meeting
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2010 09:51:47 -0500

Next Meeting is December 11, 2010
     This month our presentation is Introduction to Linux.  This is from
Kevin O'Brien's series of basic Linux presentations.  We are happy to
have Kevin as a guest speaker.  Kevin comes from our neighbor LUG
http://www.lugwash.org - LUGWASH

	As usual  MDLUG meets monthly at The Gaudior Academy in Inkster. At
12:30p to around 2:30p on the Second Saturday.  Gaudior Academy  is
Located at  27100 Avondale Avenue Inkster MI 48141.  Each meeting
usually begins with MDLUG business. A presentation may follow. Often
general discussions are the order of business. (Contact secretary at
mdlug.org to learn the requirements and volunteer to do a presentation.)
After the meeting, some of us usually go to a local restaurant.

Tony Bemus
secetary

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


____________________________________________________________
Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance
If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4cfec985bf5d25cd8c2st04vuc
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From gib at juno.com  Sat Dec 11 12:51:38 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2010 17:51:38 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] MDlug December meeting
Message-ID: <20101211.125138.1850.0@webmail20.vgs.untd.com>

Okay, we have delayed nominations.

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Tony Bemus <tony at bemushosting.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: Re: [mdlug] MDlug December meeting
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2010 12:29:15 -0500

Running late, i will be there

Tony Bemus
Sent from my smartphone

-----Original Message-----
From: gib at juno.com <gib at juno.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2010 8:32 PM
To: mdlug at mdlug.org
Cc: richard55 at sbcglobal.net; clyne at mich.com; discuss at mug.org; mdlug at mdlug.org
Subject: Re: [mdlug] MDlug December meeting


Oh, and nominations for officers . . . 

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "gib at juno.com" <gib at juno.com>
To: discuss at mug.org, mdlug at mdlug.org, clyne at mich.com, richard55 at sbcglobal.net, audiotech50 at gmail.com, mdbader at flash.net
Subject: [mdlug]  MDlug December meeting
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2010 23:54:43 GMT

FYI

---------- Forwarded Message ----------
From: Tony Bemus <tony at bemushosting.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: [mdlug] MDlug December meeting
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2010 09:51:47 -0500

Next Meeting is December 11, 2010
     This month our presentation is Introduction to Linux.  This is from
Kevin O'Brien's series of basic Linux presentations.  We are happy to
have Kevin as a guest speaker.  Kevin comes from our neighbor LUG
http://www.lugwash.org - LUGWASH

	As usual  MDLUG meets monthly at The Gaudior Academy in Inkster. At
12:30p to around 2:30p on the Second Saturday.  Gaudior Academy  is
Located at  27100 Avondale Avenue Inkster MI 48141.  Each meeting
usually begins with MDLUG business. A presentation may follow. Often
general discussions are the order of business. (Contact secretary at
mdlug.org to learn the requirements and volunteer to do a presentation.)
After the meeting, some of us usually go to a local restaurant.

Tony Bemus
secetary

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


____________________________________________________________
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If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program
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_______________________________________________
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http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


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http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

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http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




From tony at bemushosting.com  Mon Dec 13 10:05:09 2010
From: tony at bemushosting.com (Tony Bemus)
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 10:05:09 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Linux Talk Podcast
In-Reply-To: <20101211.125138.1850.0@webmail20.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20101211.125138.1850.0@webmail20.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <1292252709.2725.9.camel@bemus-remote>

With my family growing it is getting hard for me to get out of the house
to do some linux talk.  So I started looking for some podcasts.   here
are some that I am listening to and I thought you guys may be
interested:
http://lococast.net/  - Rick Harding and Craig Maloney from MUG/ Ubuntu
Michigan Loco

http://linuxoutlaws.com/ - good overall linux news and talk

http://www.linuxreality.com/ - No new episodes but the subjects look
really good.  I have not listened to them yet but I am thinking about
doing some presentations on the same subjects...  more to come later.

So what do you guys this about linux podcasts and do you have any you
like?

Tony Bemus




From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Mon Dec 13 11:30:55 2010
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 11:30:55 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Linux Talk Podcast
In-Reply-To: <1292252709.2725.9.camel@bemus-remote>
References: <20101211.125138.1850.0@webmail20.vgs.untd.com>
	<1292252709.2725.9.camel@bemus-remote>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=q19puodmRXsH6XS1ndiGCkCcLz1ZmFBHYxtzE@mail.gmail.com>

--- Tony Bemus wrote:

> With my family growing it is getting hard for me to get out of the house
> to do some Linux talk. ?So I started looking for some podcasts.
[...]

Here's another set you might like: The "Techrights" and "OpenBytes"
sites have a joint podcast series.

Techrights: http://techrights.org
OpenBytes: http://openbytes.wordpress.com
Podcasts: http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/TechBytes

~~ Michael Rudas
?? My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
?? My software blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com
?? My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/protop
?? http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey


From radkins at impelind.com  Mon Dec 13 14:00:52 2010
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins II)
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 14:00:52 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Major Malfunction -  Fileserver down
Message-ID: <2068FC396377447FB8664303866353E2@Delta7>

I received a call this morning that "Everything is down".
 
Turns out, that originally the Internet wasn't working and so, the logical
solution is go into the server closet with a proverbial hammer and beat the
living shit out of all of the equipment. (/end rant)
 
We have a router problem, the router needs to be power cycled, guess what
singular piece of equipment wasn't power cycled?
 
Instead, the Fileserver and the Email/Proxy Server were power cycled.
 
The Email/Proxy server came up, no problem.
 
The Fileserver is being incredibly stubborn. (OpenSuSe 11.1) It stated the
following: 
 
error on stat() /dev/disk/by-id/"The actual identifier of the disk,
including make and serial number"
 
Then it stated that essentially every single partition on that disk is
inaccessible.
 
I ran fsck and it mentioned the superblock being hosed. So, I got ahold of
TestDisk and ran that, which was able to determine all of the Superblock
locations and the block size. Ran fsck to replace the Superblock and it
seemed to do so quite fine and then wanted to repair a ton of inodes. Reran
fsck to double check things. Got a "clean" on each drive. Rebooted, same
error message as before.
 
I am beginning to think that this is referring to something specific with
the RAID1 setup, which is only used for the data drives, the OS is by
itself. The BIOS has the RAID1 set configured and the OS installation saw
the entire RAID as a single disk composed of both, installed fine and no
issues in operation.
 
I commented out the partitions in fstab, just to see if I could get the OS
to fully boot, ignoring the data drives, for the time being. Same error
message came up.
 
 So, there is something going on with the RAID setup and how the OS views
the RAID when booting. Any pointers/suggestion?
 
    Thanks,
    Rob


From gib at juno.com  Mon Dec 13 14:12:51 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 19:12:51 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  Linux Talk Podcast
Message-ID: <20101213.141251.9369.0@webmail05.vgs.untd.com>

Sounds great.

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Tony Bemus <tony at bemushosting.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: [mdlug] Linux Talk Podcast
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 10:05:09 -0500

With my family growing it is getting hard for me to get out of the house
to do some linux talk.  So I started looking for some podcasts.   here
are some that I am listening to and I thought you guys may be
interested:
http://lococast.net/  - Rick Harding and Craig Maloney from MUG/ Ubuntu
Michigan Loco

http://linuxoutlaws.com/ - good overall linux news and talk

http://www.linuxreality.com/ - No new episodes but the subjects look
really good.  I have not listened to them yet but I am thinking about
doing some presentations on the same subjects...  more to come later.

So what do you guys this about linux podcasts and do you have any you
like?

Tony Bemus


_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
____________________________________________________________
How to Stay Asleep
Cambridge Researchers have developed an all natural sleep aid just for you.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4d067093bc8f46bee6fst03vuc


From radkins at impelind.com  Mon Dec 13 14:35:48 2010
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins II)
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 14:35:48 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Major Malfunction -  Fileserver Up - Problem Solved
Message-ID: <A791472EB24A40D1A139C2F63D1F4B87@Delta7>

I need to get into the habit of writing out the issues AND what I have done
to this list more often and much sooner.
 
Putting myself into the position of explaining the issue ended up helping me
see what the damnable problem was from the get go.
 
The external backup Hard Drive wasn't connected to the server. Comment out
that drive in fstab and... it booted fine.
 
Looking at the logs, it does look like there were a series of issues across
the filesystems from the crude shutdown foisted upon the server and the
datafile RAID required a manual fsck to correct a number of those.
 
Thanks for reading.
 
Rob
 


  _____  

From: Robert Adkins II [mailto:radkins at impelind.com] 
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2010 2:01 PM
To: 'MDLUG's Main discussion list'
Subject: Major Malfunction - Fileserver down


I received a call this morning that "Everything is down".
 
Turns out, that originally the Internet wasn't working and so, the logical
solution is go into the server closet with a proverbial hammer and beat the
living shit out of all of the equipment. (/end rant)
 
We have a router problem, the router needs to be power cycled, guess what
singular piece of equipment wasn't power cycled?
 
Instead, the Fileserver and the Email/Proxy Server were power cycled.
 
The Email/Proxy server came up, no problem.
 
The Fileserver is being incredibly stubborn. (OpenSuSe 11.1) It stated the
following: 
 
error on stat() /dev/disk/by-id/"The actual identifier of the disk,
including make and serial number"
 
Then it stated that essentially every single partition on that disk is
inaccessible.
 
I ran fsck and it mentioned the superblock being hosed. So, I got ahold of
TestDisk and ran that, which was able to determine all of the Superblock
locations and the block size. Ran fsck to replace the Superblock and it
seemed to do so quite fine and then wanted to repair a ton of inodes. Reran
fsck to double check things. Got a "clean" on each drive. Rebooted, same
error message as before.
 
I am beginning to think that this is referring to something specific with
the RAID1 setup, which is only used for the data drives, the OS is by
itself. The BIOS has the RAID1 set configured and the OS installation saw
the entire RAID as a single disk composed of both, installed fine and no
issues in operation.
 
I commented out the partitions in fstab, just to see if I could get the OS
to fully boot, ignoring the data drives, for the time being. Same error
message came up.
 
 So, there is something going on with the RAID setup and how the OS views
the RAID when booting. Any pointers/suggestion?
 
    Thanks,
    Rob



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Dec 15 09:21:32 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 09:21:32 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] The financial & legal danger of wireless in the house...
Message-ID: <4D08CEEC.1070409@gmail.com>

A few years ago, I posted on the problems that could result
from using wireless networking in an apartment or house
(i.e. no "corporate veil" to protect you from personal
liability) & lot of people said I was nuts.

Now a retired engineer was sued for $300,000 by the MPAA
for downloading two movies that he's never even heard of.

Culprit, most likely, someone leaching off of the wireless
signal from his router.  Although the suit against him was
thrown out, it was NOT on technical or evidenciary grounds,
only because the MPAA filed in the federal court in Washington,
DC rather than in his district -- and the case was dismissed
WITHOUT prejudice, which means that the MPAA can refile
in another court, and he'll be facing a $300k lawsuit
once again.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/12/its-organized-crime-one-p2p-defendant-speaks-out.ars?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss

[While I discourage copyright infringement, I have absolutely
NO sympathy for the RIAA and the MPAA with their heavy
handed tactics and what amounts to an extortion racket.]


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Wed Dec 15 12:39:45 2010
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 12:39:45 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] The financial & legal danger of wireless in the house...
In-Reply-To: <4D08CEEC.1070409@gmail.com>
References: <4D08CEEC.1070409@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50F4BFBDC6001340B94E13C70E39F9B0123004@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Aaron Kulkis

> Now a retired engineer was sued for $300,000 by the MPAA
> for downloading two movies that he's never even heard of.

It's worth noting that 'really excellent' security is not strictly
necessary in this regard. Our wifi has a strong password, and is placed
in such a way that very little signal reaches off our property. But that
wouldn't stop the NSA... nor, necessarily, a nearby teenager with time
and a cantenna.

But there are, within range of our property, five other networks last I
checked, two of which were unencrypted. Unless an intruder was
specifically targeting us, there's no reason to go to the trouble of
breaking into our network when there's nearby low-hanging fruit.

The point being, just about *any* security is substantially better than
none *for this particular problem*.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                              (313) 227-2317

 "Once in a while you will stumble upon the truth but most of us manage
   to pick ourselves up and hurry along as if nothing had happened."
                       - Winston Churchill

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Dec 15 23:09:55 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 23:09:55 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] The financial & legal danger of wireless in the house...
In-Reply-To: <4D08CEEC.1070409@gmail.com>
References: <4D08CEEC.1070409@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTim0nXZRT74x8Q1Kqk70LNZ2WD4SueadO2S-xFgx@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 9:21 AM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
> A few years ago, I posted on the problems that could result
> from using wireless networking in an apartment or house
> (i.e. no "corporate veil" to protect you from personal
> liability) & lot of people said I was nuts.
>

A different opinion:
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/01/my_open_wireles.html

I have an open wireless connection through IPCop.  It's
bandwidth-limited in a very secure manner - an ISA Ethernet NIC.  I
did get a message from Charter about a music copyright violation
complaint from somebody.  Nobody on the internal network would have
been interested in the type of music that the claim referenced so I
knew it was from the WiFI (the traffic pattern indicated it also).
The claimed violation was detected in the early AM which matched the
traffic.  I simply plugged the cable modem into an appliance timer so
it shuts off between midnight and 6am.  More or less eliminated the
problem and keeps the address changing.


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 16 00:39:33 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 00:39:33 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] The financial & legal danger of wireless in the house...
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTim0nXZRT74x8Q1Kqk70LNZ2WD4SueadO2S-xFgx@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4D08CEEC.1070409@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTim0nXZRT74x8Q1Kqk70LNZ2WD4SueadO2S-xFgx@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D09A615.9020609@gmail.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 9:21 AM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> A few years ago, I posted on the problems that could result
>> from using wireless networking in an apartment or house
>> (i.e. no "corporate veil" to protect you from personal
>> liability) & lot of people said I was nuts.
>>
> 
> A different opinion:
> http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/01/my_open_wireles.html
> 
> I have an open wireless connection through IPCop.  It's
> bandwidth-limited in a very secure manner - an ISA Ethernet NIC.  I
> did get a message from Charter about a music copyright violation
> complaint from somebody.  Nobody on the internal network would have
> been interested in the type of music that the claim referenced so I
> knew it was from the WiFI (the traffic pattern indicated it also).


I.e. it was traced to YOUR IP ADDRESS.  You're lucky you
weren't dragged into court... or, since you haven't settled,
they're in the process of filing the papers in court against you.

> The claimed violation was detected in the early AM which matched the
> traffic.  I simply plugged the cable modem into an appliance timer so
> it shuts off between midnight and 6am.  More or less eliminated the
> problem and keeps the address changing.

Basically, you just admitted the problem... and unlike in a
business environment, YOU ARE *PERSONALLY* RESPONSIBLE for
what happens on your network.

If someone sues an incorporated business, and the business
only has assets of $10,000, that's all they can get.  If
they sue YOU, an individual -- you can spend the rest of
your life paying off the damage award.

And remember... copyright damages for this sort of thing
are way out of proportion compared to actually distributing
hard copies (of either copyrighted material or even
trademarked items).


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Dec 16 02:07:01 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 02:07:01 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] The financial & legal danger of wireless in the house...
In-Reply-To: <4D09A615.9020609@gmail.com>
References: <4D08CEEC.1070409@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTim0nXZRT74x8Q1Kqk70LNZ2WD4SueadO2S-xFgx@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D09A615.9020609@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimb44-Jvyu-mb98+F0=kmGYZKByPyYeKX8a7_NZ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 12:39 AM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I.e. it was traced to YOUR IP ADDRESS. ?You're lucky you
> weren't dragged into court... or, since you haven't settled,
> they're in the process of filing the papers in court against you.
>

It's been about two years now.  I'm not worried.  The lawsuits have
been challenged more and failing to accomplish anything.  There is an
established process of defeating them with court cases to match.  The
RIAA hasn't really been filing that many lately as it has cost way
more than they ever recovered as leaked documents have shown.


From rob.oliver80 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 16 10:12:02 2010
From: rob.oliver80 at gmail.com (Robert Oliver)
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 10:12:02 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] The financial & legal danger of wireless in the house...
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTim0nXZRT74x8Q1Kqk70LNZ2WD4SueadO2S-xFgx@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4D08CEEC.1070409@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTim0nXZRT74x8Q1Kqk70LNZ2WD4SueadO2S-xFgx@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimpj+sx0eo7eGGsSQUKbhNg1+g2kAfYrfv0HQoS@mail.gmail.com>

I keep  my wireless pretty locked down.  I change the SSIDs, default
usernames and passwords, and use WPA2.  The only thing I don't do is use a
hidden SSID, I think that tends to be more trouble than it's worth.

I think the benefits of having wireless in the home far out weigh the cons.
 In fact, depending on the business, I think the cons out weigh the benefits
in a business setting.  That's excluding "guest" wireless networks that are
separate from the company's network.  I'm talking wireless networks the
employees would be regularly connecting to in order to do their jobs.

Anyhow, just my $12 (damn inflation).

On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 11:09 PM, Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 9:21 AM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > A few years ago, I posted on the problems that could result
> > from using wireless networking in an apartment or house
> > (i.e. no "corporate veil" to protect you from personal
> > liability) & lot of people said I was nuts.
> >
>
> A different opinion:
> http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/01/my_open_wireles.html
>
> I have an open wireless connection through IPCop.  It's
> bandwidth-limited in a very secure manner - an ISA Ethernet NIC.  I
> did get a message from Charter about a music copyright violation
> complaint from somebody.  Nobody on the internal network would have
> been interested in the type of music that the claim referenced so I
> knew it was from the WiFI (the traffic pattern indicated it also).
> The claimed violation was detected in the early AM which matched the
> traffic.  I simply plugged the cable modem into an appliance timer so
> it shuts off between midnight and 6am.  More or less eliminated the
> problem and keeps the address changing.
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From tesral at wowway.com  Thu Dec 16 11:40:38 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 11:40:38 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] The financial & legal danger of wireless in the house...
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimpj+sx0eo7eGGsSQUKbhNg1+g2kAfYrfv0HQoS@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4D08CEEC.1070409@gmail.com>	<AANLkTim0nXZRT74x8Q1Kqk70LNZ2WD4SueadO2S-xFgx@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimpj+sx0eo7eGGsSQUKbhNg1+g2kAfYrfv0HQoS@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D0A4106.6040603@wowway.com>

Robert Oliver wrote:
> I keep  my wireless pretty locked down.  I change the SSIDs, default
> usernames and passwords, and use WPA2.  The only thing I don't do is use a
> hidden SSID, I think that tends to be more trouble than it's worth.
>
> I think the benefits of having wireless in the home far out weigh the cons.
>  In fact, depending on the business, I think the cons out weigh the benefits
> in a business setting.  That's excluding "guest" wireless networks that are
> separate from the company's network.  I'm talking wireless networks the
> employees would be regularly connecting to in order to do their jobs.
>   

As a home used I prefer wired.  Speed and security.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Those persons, or societies, easily offended need to be offended until they get over it.
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Dec 16 13:27:15 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 13:27:15 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] The financial & legal danger of wireless in the house...
In-Reply-To: <4D0A4106.6040603@wowway.com>
References: <4D08CEEC.1070409@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTim0nXZRT74x8Q1Kqk70LNZ2WD4SueadO2S-xFgx@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimpj+sx0eo7eGGsSQUKbhNg1+g2kAfYrfv0HQoS@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D0A4106.6040603@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikmqnqU8EvznNxLsYTx31vNxMNqbQ0TV-EEiRih@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 11:40 AM, Garry Stahl <tesral at wowway.com> wrote:
> As a home used I prefer wired. ?Speed and security.

Real tinfoil-hat type prefer fiber with encryption as it's much more
difficult to intercept.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Dec 16 13:27:15 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 13:27:15 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] The financial & legal danger of wireless in the house...
In-Reply-To: <4D0A4106.6040603@wowway.com>
References: <4D08CEEC.1070409@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTim0nXZRT74x8Q1Kqk70LNZ2WD4SueadO2S-xFgx@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimpj+sx0eo7eGGsSQUKbhNg1+g2kAfYrfv0HQoS@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D0A4106.6040603@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikmqnqU8EvznNxLsYTx31vNxMNqbQ0TV-EEiRih@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 11:40 AM, Garry Stahl <tesral at wowway.com> wrote:
> As a home used I prefer wired. ?Speed and security.

Real tinfoil-hat type prefer fiber with encryption as it's much more
difficult to intercept.


From tesral at wowway.com  Thu Dec 16 13:40:48 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 13:40:48 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] The financial & legal danger of wireless in the house...
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikmqnqU8EvznNxLsYTx31vNxMNqbQ0TV-EEiRih@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4D08CEEC.1070409@gmail.com>	<AANLkTim0nXZRT74x8Q1Kqk70LNZ2WD4SueadO2S-xFgx@mail.gmail.com>	<AANLkTimpj+sx0eo7eGGsSQUKbhNg1+g2kAfYrfv0HQoS@mail.gmail.com>	<4D0A4106.6040603@wowway.com>
	<AANLkTikmqnqU8EvznNxLsYTx31vNxMNqbQ0TV-EEiRih@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D0A5D30.7070305@wowway.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:

> Real tinfoil-hat type prefer fiber with encryption as it's much more
> difficult to intercept.
>   

I must not have a tin foil hat.  But the guy downloading movies can't
"borrow" my wireless if it is turned off.  And cat 5 is much faster.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Those persons, or societies, easily offended need to be offended until they get over it.
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 16 14:40:02 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 14:40:02 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] The financial & legal danger of wireless in the house...
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikmqnqU8EvznNxLsYTx31vNxMNqbQ0TV-EEiRih@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4D08CEEC.1070409@gmail.com>	<AANLkTim0nXZRT74x8Q1Kqk70LNZ2WD4SueadO2S-xFgx@mail.gmail.com>	<AANLkTimpj+sx0eo7eGGsSQUKbhNg1+g2kAfYrfv0HQoS@mail.gmail.com>	<4D0A4106.6040603@wowway.com>
	<AANLkTikmqnqU8EvznNxLsYTx31vNxMNqbQ0TV-EEiRih@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D0A6B12.6070604@gmail.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 11:40 AM, Garry Stahl <tesral at wowway.com> wrote:
>> As a home used I prefer wired.  Speed and security.
> 
> Real tinfoil-hat type prefer fiber with encryption as it's much more
> difficult to intercept.

Ethernet is push-pull over twisted pairs.  As such, it
puts out negligible magnetic and electric potential fields.


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 16 14:40:37 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 14:40:37 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] The financial & legal danger of wireless in the house...
In-Reply-To: <4D0A5D30.7070305@wowway.com>
References: <4D08CEEC.1070409@gmail.com>	<AANLkTim0nXZRT74x8Q1Kqk70LNZ2WD4SueadO2S-xFgx@mail.gmail.com>	<AANLkTimpj+sx0eo7eGGsSQUKbhNg1+g2kAfYrfv0HQoS@mail.gmail.com>	<4D0A4106.6040603@wowway.com>	<AANLkTikmqnqU8EvznNxLsYTx31vNxMNqbQ0TV-EEiRih@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D0A5D30.7070305@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <4D0A6B35.3020109@gmail.com>

Garry Stahl wrote:
> Jeff Hanson wrote:
> 
>> Real tinfoil-hat type prefer fiber with encryption as it's much more
>> difficult to intercept.
>>   
> 
> I must not have a tin foil hat.  But the guy downloading movies can't

Or any other illegal activity....

> "borrow" my wireless if it is turned off.  And cat 5 is much faster.
> 



From mark.stanislav at gmail.com  Thu Dec 16 15:54:22 2010
From: mark.stanislav at gmail.com (Mark Stanislav)
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 15:54:22 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Fwd: Linux System Administrator position: Respond by
	12/16
References: <E97B2F6F2C260C4491CD0BB47486F5A619ECCD@MORPHEUS.local.epitecgroup.com>
Message-ID: <E28EBC11-3BD2-413A-B0F2-55921C097D04@gmail.com>

Feel free.

Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Alyssa Zotos (azotos at epitecgroup.com)" <azotos at epitecgroup.com>
> Date: December 16, 2010 3:33:53 PM EST
> To: "mark.stanislav at gmail.com" <mark.stanislav at gmail.com>
> Subject: Linux System Administrator position: Respond by 12/16
> 
> Mark,
> 
> My name is Alyssa Zotos and I represent The Epitec Group, a top tier IT staffing firm located in Southfield, Michigan.
> 
> I came across your name as someone that may be interested in a few positions that our organization currently has available. These are ?priority? to fill positions and our customer is looking to schedule interviews today. I will follow up with a phone call, but I wanted to make sure you receive some important details first:
> 
> 1. Linux system administrator
> 
> 2. SuSE Linux
> 
> 3. Solaris
> 
> 4. HP-UX
> 
> 5. Perl Scripting
> 
> 6. Shell Scripting
> 
> 7. Disaster recovery experience  
> 
> If you have the majority of the skills listed above, I would like the opportunity to speak with you today! Please let me know what time works best for you.
> 
> I also wanted to share with you some information about The Epitec Group. During the last three decades, we?ve continued to attract and retain people with the technological talent to move some of the greatest companies forward. These great companies depend on our industry expertise, award-winning processes and proprietary workforce support tools to help stimulate their growth. The most valuable assets our customers rely on at The Epitec Group are the innovative minds and energetic spirit of our talented people.
> 
> I am very excited about your background and look forward to speaking with you soon.
> 
> Respectfully,
> 
> Alyssa Zotos
> Genius Finder
> 
> THE EPITEC GROUP, INC. | 24800 Denso Dr. Suite 150 | Southfield, MI 48033
> DD (248) 595-0932 | P (248) 353-6800 | E azotos at epitecgroup.com | W www.epitecgroup.com
> 
> Describe your dream workplace to us, we'll listen.  Then, we'll place you there.  Fulfill your career desires today.
> 
> The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee(s) only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not use it, copy or reproduce in any form or disclose it to another party. If you received this email in error please notify the sender immediately and then kindly destroy it.
> 
>  
> 



From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 23 11:43:00 2010
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2010 11:43:00 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=F3CffYoqBGoxjA9QJA2opxi_DCpZpWhZXRqOH@mail.gmail.com>

Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?  The evidence says "yes"--in
the face of ARM processors running Android, Chrome, or iOS, is there a
future for Windows on x86 processors?
<http://www.digitimes.com/NewsShow/MailHome.asp?datePublish=2010/12/22&pages=PD&seq=217>
Somehow, I doubt that Windows on ARM is gonna fly...

~~ Michael Rudas
?? My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
?? My software blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com
?? My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/protop
?? http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Thu Dec 23 15:26:44 2010
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2010 15:26:44 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=F3CffYoqBGoxjA9QJA2opxi_DCpZpWhZXRqOH@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=F3CffYoqBGoxjA9QJA2opxi_DCpZpWhZXRqOH@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50F4BFBDC6001340B94E13C70E39F9B01232FD@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Michael Rudas

> Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?  The evidence says "yes"--in
> the face of ARM processors running Android, Chrome, or iOS, is there a
> future for Windows on x86 processors?

Microsoft won't go away, and they'll still be a big company. IBM owned
the 1970's and 1980's, then Microsoft took over from 1990's to now. IBM
isn't gone, and still makes plenty of money, they just stand astride the
industry like a colossus. Microsoft is well on the way to joining them.

For now, it looks like Google is best-poised to become the next
colossus, but there's still *some* room for someone else to jump in. I
don't *think* Apple can do it now, but it's not completely
inconceivable.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                               (313) 227-2317

   "They said there'd be snow at Christmas, they said there'd be peace
  on Earth. Halelujah Noel, be it heaven or hell; the Christmas we get,
 we deserve." - Emerson, Lake, & Palmer, 'I Believe In Father Christmas'

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Thu Dec 23 15:36:24 2010
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2010 15:36:24 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
In-Reply-To: <50F4BFBDC6001340B94E13C70E39F9B01232FD@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <AANLkTi=F3CffYoqBGoxjA9QJA2opxi_DCpZpWhZXRqOH@mail.gmail.com>
	<50F4BFBDC6001340B94E13C70E39F9B01232FD@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <50F4BFBDC6001340B94E13C70E39F9B0123301@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Ingles, Raymond
> IBM isn't gone, and still makes plenty of money, they just [DON'T]
stand astride the
> industry like a colossus.

Note the additional word. :/

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                               (313) 227-2317

   "They said there'd be snow at Christmas, they said there'd be peace
  on Earth. Halelujah Noel, be it heaven or hell; the Christmas we get,
 we deserve." - Emerson, Lake, & Palmer, 'I Believe In Father Christmas'


The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 23 15:41:33 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2010 15:41:33 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
In-Reply-To: <50F4BFBDC6001340B94E13C70E39F9B01232FD@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <AANLkTi=F3CffYoqBGoxjA9QJA2opxi_DCpZpWhZXRqOH@mail.gmail.com>
	<50F4BFBDC6001340B94E13C70E39F9B01232FD@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <4D13B3FD.2050404@gmail.com>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>> From: Michael Rudas
> 
>> Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?  The evidence says "yes"--in
>> the face of ARM processors running Android, Chrome, or iOS, is there a
>> future for Windows on x86 processors?
> 
> Microsoft won't go away, and they'll still be a big company. IBM owned
> the 1970's and 1980's, then Microsoft took over from 1990's to now. IBM
> isn't gone, and still makes plenty of money, they just stand astride the
> industry like a colossus. Microsoft is well on the way to joining them.
> 
> For now, it looks like Google is best-poised to become the next
> colossus, but there's still *some* room for someone else to jump in. I
> don't *think* Apple can do it now, but it's not completely
> inconceivable.
> 

Unlike IBM and Microsoft, web-sites have no capacity for customer lock-in.
If Google gains and maintains a monopoly, it will be by earning it.

Not just once, but EVERY SINGLE DAY.


From jaketodd422 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 23 16:15:07 2010
From: jaketodd422 at gmail.com (Jacob Todd)
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2010 16:15:07 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=F3CffYoqBGoxjA9QJA2opxi_DCpZpWhZXRqOH@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=F3CffYoqBGoxjA9QJA2opxi_DCpZpWhZXRqOH@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinbt4RADeKps7sJUYAsNhjs-wbz32_taN7=tQ-0@mail.gmail.com>

Seeing that there was no monopoly to begin with, no.


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Fri Dec 24 21:35:14 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 21:35:14 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinbt4RADeKps7sJUYAsNhjs-wbz32_taN7=tQ-0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=F3CffYoqBGoxjA9QJA2opxi_DCpZpWhZXRqOH@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinbt4RADeKps7sJUYAsNhjs-wbz32_taN7=tQ-0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D155862.502@gmail.com>

Jacob Todd wrote:
> Seeing that there was no monopoly to begin with, no.

1. Go into a retail store, and try to by a non-Apple
laptop without Windows on it.  If you can accomplish
this in the same amount of time as it takes to purchase
a laptop with Windows on it, I'll be surprised.

Shocked, in fact.


2. Call up Dell, Gateway, etc. and ask to buy a laptop
WITHOUT Windows installed on it and your purchase
price adjusted downwards by the cost of an OEM copy
of Windows.

If you can accomplish this task in the same amount of
time as purchasing identical hardware with Windows, then
your claim will be demonstrated.



From jaketodd422 at gmail.com  Fri Dec 24 21:59:28 2010
From: jaketodd422 at gmail.com (Jacob Todd)
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 21:59:28 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=ySb1g5+mCDUVh4mGn-mDAyXuakGAK7FvQF8+C@mail.gmail.com>

That's not a monopoly. A monopoly is when a firm has enough control over (a)
product(s) that it can determine terms in which individuals have access the
product. You can buy laptops, desktops, &c without windows on it, maybe not
from your favourite brand X, but you can buy computers without windows on
it.
On Dec 24, 2010 9:43 PM, "Aaron Kulkis" <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:


From smunro622 at gmail.com  Fri Dec 24 22:05:33 2010
From: smunro622 at gmail.com (Stuart Munro)
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 22:05:33 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=ySb1g5+mCDUVh4mGn-mDAyXuakGAK7FvQF8+C@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=ySb1g5+mCDUVh4mGn-mDAyXuakGAK7FvQF8+C@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimvd3QpX-RxWNyPMxK8DhTcyLS3BL4pKi2AAhcW@mail.gmail.com>

all you have to do is not accept the EULA and notify the supplier and they
will send you a check so you can buy your favorite X brand and not pay for
windows....
I took about 3 months to get eh check but i did get it...

On Fri, Dec 24, 2010 at 9:59 PM, Jacob Todd <jaketodd422 at gmail.com> wrote:

> That's not a monopoly. A monopoly is when a firm has enough control over
> (a)
> product(s) that it can determine terms in which individuals have access the
> product. You can buy laptops, desktops, &c without windows on it, maybe not
> from your favourite brand X, but you can buy computers without windows on
> it.
> On Dec 24, 2010 9:43 PM, "Aaron Kulkis" <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>



-- 
A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a "Yes"
merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble.
-- Mahatma Gandhi


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Fri Dec 24 23:19:28 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 23:19:28 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimvd3QpX-RxWNyPMxK8DhTcyLS3BL4pKi2AAhcW@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=ySb1g5+mCDUVh4mGn-mDAyXuakGAK7FvQF8+C@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimvd3QpX-RxWNyPMxK8DhTcyLS3BL4pKi2AAhcW@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D1570D0.5060708@gmail.com>

Stuart Munro wrote:
> all you have to do is not accept the EULA and notify the supplier and they
> will send you a check so you can buy your favorite X brand and not pay for
> windows....
> I took about 3 months to get eh check but i did get it...
> 

When you have to jump through such hoops to NOT buy something
then yes, the product which you do NOT WANT TO BUY is a monopoly.

Any reasonable person can see that.

> On Fri, Dec 24, 2010 at 9:59 PM, Jacob Todd <jaketodd422 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> That's not a monopoly. A monopoly is when a firm has enough control over
>> (a)
>> product(s) that it can determine terms in which individuals have access the
>> product. You can buy laptops, desktops, &c without windows on it, maybe not
>> from your favourite brand X, but you can buy computers without windows on
>> it.

Again, where can I buy a laptop without Windows on it..
WITHOUT having to beg for my money back?

>> On Dec 24, 2010 9:43 PM, "Aaron Kulkis" <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:


From tesral at wowway.com  Sat Dec 25 00:10:05 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2010 00:10:05 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
In-Reply-To: <4D1570D0.5060708@gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=ySb1g5+mCDUVh4mGn-mDAyXuakGAK7FvQF8+C@mail.gmail.com>	<AANLkTimvd3QpX-RxWNyPMxK8DhTcyLS3BL4pKi2AAhcW@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D1570D0.5060708@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D157CAD.3050403@wowway.com>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> When you have to jump through such hoops to NOT buy something
> then yes, the product which you do NOT WANT TO BUY is a monopoly.
>
> Any reasonable person can see that.
>   

Actually the US courts said so.  Dubya forced the justice department to
drop the court ordered judgment against Microsoft.  I have not forgotten
this.

Windows meets all the requirements for a monopoly in the legal sense. 

The hoops I had to jump through to get a non-windows laptop were pretty
amazing.  However I did.  I should not have to refuse a EULA and hope
for a refund on a product I do not want and do not need.  That is non
competitive as the courts decided. 

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Those persons, or societies, easily offended need to be offended until they get over it.
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From petertheplumber at att.net  Sat Dec 25 10:08:13 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2010 10:08:13 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
In-Reply-To: <4D1570D0.5060708@gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=ySb1g5+mCDUVh4mGn-mDAyXuakGAK7FvQF8+C@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimvd3QpX-RxWNyPMxK8DhTcyLS3BL4pKi2AAhcW@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D1570D0.5060708@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1293289693.4726.137.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

On Fri, 2010-12-24 at 23:19 -0500, Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> Stuart Munro wrote:
> > all you have to do is not accept the EULA and notify the supplier and they
> > will send you a check so you can buy your favorite X brand and not pay for
> > windows....
> > I took about 3 months to get eh check but i did get it...
> > 
> 
> When you have to jump through such hoops to NOT buy something
> then yes, the product which you do NOT WANT TO BUY is a monopoly.
> 
> Any reasonable person can see that.
> 
> > On Fri, Dec 24, 2010 at 9:59 PM, Jacob Todd <jaketodd422 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> That's not a monopoly. A monopoly is when a firm has enough control over
> >> (a)
> >> product(s) that it can determine terms in which individuals have access the
> >> product. You can buy laptops, desktops, &c without windows on it, maybe not
> >> from your favourite brand X, but you can buy computers without windows on
> >> it.
> 
> Again, where can I buy a laptop without Windows on it..
> WITHOUT having to beg for my money back?

<http://www.computerdirectcorp.com/cdproductcatalog/defaultfront.asp>
-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 25 10:37:57 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2010 10:37:57 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
In-Reply-To: <4D157CAD.3050403@wowway.com>
References: <AANLkTi=ySb1g5+mCDUVh4mGn-mDAyXuakGAK7FvQF8+C@mail.gmail.com>	<AANLkTimvd3QpX-RxWNyPMxK8DhTcyLS3BL4pKi2AAhcW@mail.gmail.com>	<4D1570D0.5060708@gmail.com>
	<4D157CAD.3050403@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <4D160FD5.5090909@gmail.com>

Garry Stahl wrote:
> Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>> When you have to jump through such hoops to NOT buy something
>> then yes, the product which you do NOT WANT TO BUY is a monopoly.
>>
>> Any reasonable person can see that.
>>   
> 
> Actually the US courts said so.  Dubya forced the justice department to
> drop the court ordered judgment against Microsoft.  I have not forgotten
> this.
> 
> Windows meets all the requirements for a monopoly in the legal sense. 
> 
> The hoops I had to jump through to get a non-windows laptop were pretty
> amazing.  However I did.  I should not have to refuse a EULA and hope
> for a refund on a product I do not want and do not need.  That is non
> competitive as the courts decided. 
> 

In fact, tortuous interference of trade, if any competent
civil litigator would take up such a case.

Oh wait.  Digital Research already made that point and won the
case in the DR DOS suit.   (Despite MS dragging it out for 10
years)


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 25 10:38:14 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2010 10:38:14 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
In-Reply-To: <4D157CAD.3050403@wowway.com>
References: <AANLkTi=ySb1g5+mCDUVh4mGn-mDAyXuakGAK7FvQF8+C@mail.gmail.com>	<AANLkTimvd3QpX-RxWNyPMxK8DhTcyLS3BL4pKi2AAhcW@mail.gmail.com>	<4D1570D0.5060708@gmail.com>
	<4D157CAD.3050403@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <4D160FE6.3050408@gmail.com>

Garry Stahl wrote:
> Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>> When you have to jump through such hoops to NOT buy something
>> then yes, the product which you do NOT WANT TO BUY is a monopoly.
>>
>> Any reasonable person can see that.
>>   
> 
> Actually the US courts said so.  Dubya forced the justice department to
> drop the court ordered judgment against Microsoft.  I have not forgotten
> this.
> 
> Windows meets all the requirements for a monopoly in the legal sense. 
> 
> The hoops I had to jump through to get a non-windows laptop were pretty
> amazing.  However I did.  I should not have to refuse a EULA and hope
> for a refund on a product I do not want and do not need.  That is non
> competitive as the courts decided. 
> 

In fact, tortuous interference of trade, if any competent
civil litigator would take up such a case.

Oh wait.  Digital Research already made that point and won the
case in the DR DOS suit.   (Despite MS dragging it out for years
and years)


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 25 13:30:11 2010
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2010 13:30:11 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=F3CffYoqBGoxjA9QJA2opxi_DCpZpWhZXRqOH@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=F3CffYoqBGoxjA9QJA2opxi_DCpZpWhZXRqOH@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinpMN_ZqLK-cQ-XGEWf8d7PZhXVSn1za=5LtHrW@mail.gmail.com>

--- Michael Rudas wrote:

> Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
[...]
> Somehow, I doubt that Windows on ARM is gonna fly...

An issue with this that has not really been mentioned here is that not
only would ARM be a whole new ecosystem for MS (Windows Phone 7 barely
counts), but it would mean that anybody that creates third-party
software for Windows would have to create multiple binaries--a lack of
available third-party software could doom Windows-on-ARM almost from
the start.  Another mystery--exactly how MUCH of Windows is hard-coded
to the x86 architecture?  It can't ALL be written in high-level
languages.

~~ Michael Rudas
?? My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
?? My software blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com
?? My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/protop
?? http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey


From petertheplumber at att.net  Sat Dec 25 21:01:16 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2010 21:01:16 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Android Bluetooth Trouble Using In Car Volkwagen Handsfree
Message-ID: <1293328876.4726.516.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

Hello Everyone,
	I have a Samsung Galaxy S; aka Samsung Captivate SGH-I897; that I'm
trying to get to work with a 2011 Volkswagen Tiguan's mobile phone
package. The handset has firmware v2.1-update1. I can get the phone/car
bluetooth to pair and set each as trusted. The phone basic information
shows up in the drivers instrument cluster and the phone reports paired
as well. But that's where it ends. I can't make or receive calls via the
cars handsfree system. Incoming calls go to the handset. Attempting to
call out with the cars call buttons results in an error message on the
cars display. When I leave the car the phone becomes very sluggish to
operate, sometimes stopping responding at all. When I can see the screen
the bluetooth icon looks like it has white dots on either side of it. If
I can catch it in time, disabling bluetooth brings the phone back into
regular operation. If I don't, the only thing I can do is pop the
battery out.
	I've looked around a little and here's what I know. Volkwagen uses both
the Parrot and Volk-L bluetooth adapter. I do not yet know which I have.
There seems to be a bit of a problem with some Android handsets
connecting to some European made cars
<http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=4402&q=label%
3APriority-Medium&colspec=ID>. The same Samsung handset had full
functionality with an Alpine CDE-103BT that used Parrot's bluetooth
adapter. I can pair and use my Nokia E66 with the Volkwagen no problem.
	I've seen some references to a Parrot bluetooth kit working, but I
don't yet know which one. The Parrot CK3000 seems like a likely
contender <http://www.quickconnectproducts.com/Find/VWsteer2.htm>. I've
seen references in the android market to fixes
<http://www.androlib.com/android.application.com-phk-bluetoothfixrepairdonate-zmFDC.aspx>. It seems to require a rooted handset. I'm not opposed to that. I've seen a reference that an "unlocked" handset works <http://www.mytreg.com/index.php?/topic/7529-samsung-galaxy-s-rsap/page__view__findpost__p__68898>. I've seen a reference that a new bluetooth "module" is available from VW <http://www.mytreg.com/index.php?/topic/7529-samsung-galaxy-s-rsap/page__view__findpost__p__68593>.
	Ok so I'm overwhelmed, anyone have any suggestions?


-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber



From petertheplumber at att.net  Sun Dec 26 21:05:59 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2010 21:05:59 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Android Bluetooth Trouble Using In Car Volkwagen
 Handsfree Solved?
In-Reply-To: <1293328876.4726.516.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
References: <1293328876.4726.516.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <1293415559.4726.526.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

On Sat, 2010-12-25 at 21:01 -0500, Peter Bart wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
> 	I have a Samsung Galaxy S; aka Samsung Captivate SGH-I897; that I'm
> trying to get to work with a 2011 Volkswagen Tiguan's mobile phone
> package. The handset has firmware v2.1-update1. I can get the phone/car
> bluetooth to pair and set each as trusted. The phone basic information
> shows up in the drivers instrument cluster and the phone reports paired
> as well. But that's where it ends. I can't make or receive calls via the
> cars handsfree system. Incoming calls go to the handset. Attempting to
> call out with the cars call buttons results in an error message on the
> cars display. When I leave the car the phone becomes very sluggish to
> operate, sometimes stopping responding at all. When I can see the screen
> the bluetooth icon looks like it has white dots on either side of it. If
> I can catch it in time, disabling bluetooth brings the phone back into
> regular operation. If I don't, the only thing I can do is pop the
> battery out.
> 	I've looked around a little and here's what I know. Volkwagen uses both
> the Parrot and Volk-L bluetooth adapter. I do not yet know which I have.
> There seems to be a bit of a problem with some Android handsets
> connecting to some European made cars
> <http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=4402&q=label%
> 3APriority-Medium&colspec=ID>. The same Samsung handset had full
> functionality with an Alpine CDE-103BT that used Parrot's bluetooth
> adapter. I can pair and use my Nokia E66 with the Volkwagen no problem.
> 	I've seen some references to a Parrot bluetooth kit working, but I
> don't yet know which one. The Parrot CK3000 seems like a likely
> contender <http://www.quickconnectproducts.com/Find/VWsteer2.htm>. I've
> seen references in the android market to fixes
> <http://www.androlib.com/android.application.com-phk-bluetoothfixrepairdonate-zmFDC.aspx>. It seems to require a rooted handset. I'm not opposed to that. I've seen a reference that an "unlocked" handset works <http://www.mytreg.com/index.php?/topic/7529-samsung-galaxy-s-rsap/page__view__findpost__p__68898>. I've seen a reference that a new bluetooth "module" is available from VW <http://www.mytreg.com/index.php?/topic/7529-samsung-galaxy-s-rsap/page__view__findpost__p__68593>.
> 	Ok so I'm overwhelmed, anyone have any suggestions?
> 
> 
	This seems to have resolved itself???? I cleared all saved bluetooth
profiles from previous pairing attempts. I then initiated pairing from
the car, not the phone. It didn't take immediately, but after several
power cycles on the car it just worked. I'm still stumped. I do know
that now; in the bluetooth settings; under options of the VW Phone
device, Use for phone audio is checked and active. It never was before
and in fact refused to activate. The phonebook downloaded no problem and
I've checked it three times tonight. Each time shutting the car off and
getting the handset out of range. Each time the car found and connected
the handset w/o any problems. All functions appeared to work, calls were
placed and received. 
	Was it really that simple to fix? Anyone?
-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber



From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Mon Dec 27 08:51:08 2010
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 08:51:08 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] SEMCO SIG-Linux meeting reminder
Message-ID: <AANLkTimVoCg980T3hKVjMMHjktqBvViePR3yRUVLmTsS@mail.gmail.com>

Our next SEMCO SIG-Linux meeting has a new location, just north of our
most recent meeting locations.

We are now meeting at the "Motor City Free Geeks" facility at 1511
Jarvis (the corner of Jarvis and Wanda) in Ferndale.  There is a
traffic light at that corner.
<http://www.motorcityfreegeek.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=106&Itemid=55>
My planned presentation is "Starting with a lightweight Linux" and Ken
of "Motor City Free Geeks" will talk about electronics recycling--the
two topics are somewhat related.

You don't have to be a member of either group to attend the meeting,
but like-minded folks are always appreciated!

~~ Michael Rudas
?? My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
?? My software blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com
?? My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/protop
?? http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Mon Dec 27 08:55:26 2010
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 08:55:26 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] SEMCO SIG-Linux meeting (date & time)
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=VUFy7+GhGBaW_w3P8BdMY4M7kpmqhPuM6j-bU@mail.gmail.com>

Oops!  Addendum: The meeting is at 6:45 p.m. on Tuesday, December 28th.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Our next SEMCO SIG-Linux meeting has a new location, just north of our
most recent meeting locations.

We are now meeting at the "Motor City Free Geeks" facility at 1511
Jarvis (the corner of Jarvis and Wanda) in Ferndale.  There is a
traffic light at that corner.
<http://www.motorcityfreegeek.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=106&Itemid=55>
My planned presentation is "Starting with a lightweight Linux" and Ken
of "Motor City Free Geeks" will talk about electronics recycling--the
two topics are somewhat related.

You don't have to be a member of either group to attend the meeting,
but like-minded folks are always appreciated!

~~ Michael Rudas
   My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
   My software blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com
   My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/protop
   http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey


From radkins at impelind.com  Mon Dec 27 09:00:45 2010
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins II)
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 09:00:45 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinbt4RADeKps7sJUYAsNhjs-wbz32_taN7=tQ-0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=F3CffYoqBGoxjA9QJA2opxi_DCpZpWhZXRqOH@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinbt4RADeKps7sJUYAsNhjs-wbz32_taN7=tQ-0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7E0B62DF6D6741658BD7ED698E0099C2@Delta7>

Seriously?

After all this time and the legal findings that showed, not just in the US,
but in Europe, that Microsoft did indeed hold a monopoly on the market and
did indeed abuse their monopoly powers, there are those who will post to a
Linux Users Group list things like this?

It's bizarre. Extremely bizarre. Honestly, I don't give a crap that MS had a
monopoly or that they abused it. Just denying that it existed is like
denying the fact that the United States used Atomic Bombs on the Japanese in
WWII.

-Rob
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Jacob Todd
> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 4:15 PM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
> 
> Seeing that there was no monopoly to begin with, no.
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 



From jaketodd422 at gmail.com  Mon Dec 27 10:45:42 2010
From: jaketodd422 at gmail.com (Jacob Todd)
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 10:45:42 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
In-Reply-To: <7E0B62DF6D6741658BD7ED698E0099C2@Delta7>
References: <AANLkTi=F3CffYoqBGoxjA9QJA2opxi_DCpZpWhZXRqOH@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinbt4RADeKps7sJUYAsNhjs-wbz32_taN7=tQ-0@mail.gmail.com>
	<7E0B62DF6D6741658BD7ED698E0099C2@Delta7>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinj+cHH9aPqgedTXNWiO_jCRKjaogr9LSc+uOHP@mail.gmail.com>

No it's not. Any sane economist will tell you they didn't have a monopoly,
alart from the patent and copyright monopoly, which was established by the
gov't.

/thread
On Dec 27, 2010 9:01 AM, "Robert Adkins II" <radkins at impelind.com> wrote:
> Seriously?
>
> After all this time and the legal findings that showed, not just in the
US,
> but in Europe, that Microsoft did indeed hold a monopoly on the market and
> did indeed abuse their monopoly powers, there are those who will post to a
> Linux Users Group list things like this?
>
> It's bizarre. Extremely bizarre. Honestly, I don't give a crap that MS had
a
> monopoly or that they abused it. Just denying that it existed is like
> denying the fact that the United States used Atomic Bombs on the Japanese
in
> WWII.
>
> -Rob
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org
>> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Jacob Todd
>> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 4:15 PM
>> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
>> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
>>
>> Seeing that there was no monopoly to begin with, no.
>> _______________________________________________
>> mdlug mailing list
>> mdlug at mdlug.org
>> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From radkins at impelind.com  Mon Dec 27 12:20:01 2010
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins II)
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 12:20:01 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinj+cHH9aPqgedTXNWiO_jCRKjaogr9LSc+uOHP@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=F3CffYoqBGoxjA9QJA2opxi_DCpZpWhZXRqOH@mail.gmail.com><AANLkTinbt4RADeKps7sJUYAsNhjs-wbz32_taN7=tQ-0@mail.gmail.com><7E0B62DF6D6741658BD7ED698E0099C2@Delta7>
	<AANLkTinj+cHH9aPqgedTXNWiO_jCRKjaogr9LSc+uOHP@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <14ADCD2C039340859796E71B85B51024@Delta7>

Oh, so now any economist who disagrees or follows with the legal finding of
fact in the court case against Microsoft is suggested to be something other
than sane.

Ad hominem attacks do nothing to help your assertion.

The facts are that the courts found Microsoft to have a monopoly and also
that they abused that monopoly. End of story. 

Things have changed (a little) in the marketplace since then. Part of the
reason things have changed is partly due to the restrictions that have been
placed upon Microsoft, primarily in Europe. (I don't believe any such
restrictions have been placed on Microsoft in the US.)

-Rob



 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Jacob Todd
> Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 10:46 AM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
> 
> No it's not. Any sane economist will tell you they didn't 
> have a monopoly, alart from the patent and copyright 
> monopoly, which was established by the gov't.
> 
> /thread
> On Dec 27, 2010 9:01 AM, "Robert Adkins II" 
> <radkins at impelind.com> wrote:
> > Seriously?
> >
> > After all this time and the legal findings that showed, not just in 
> > the
> US,
> > but in Europe, that Microsoft did indeed hold a monopoly on 
> the market 
> > and did indeed abuse their monopoly powers, there are those 
> who will 
> > post to a Linux Users Group list things like this?
> >
> > It's bizarre. Extremely bizarre. Honestly, I don't give a 
> crap that MS 
> > had
> a
> > monopoly or that they abused it. Just denying that it 
> existed is like 
> > denying the fact that the United States used Atomic Bombs on the 
> > Japanese
> in
> > WWII.
> >
> > -Rob
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org
> >> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Jacob Todd
> >> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 4:15 PM
> >> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> >> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Is the "Wintel" monopoly slipping away?
> >>
> >> Seeing that there was no monopoly to begin with, no.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> mdlug mailing list
> >> mdlug at mdlug.org
> >> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > mdlug mailing list
> > mdlug at mdlug.org
> > http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 



From gib at juno.com  Tue Dec 28 10:31:51 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2010 15:31:51 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] SEMCO SIG-Linux meeting (date & time)
Message-ID: <20101228.103151.6000.0@webmail16.vgs.untd.com>

I'm out of town so I won't be able to make it.  Sound like a good meeting.

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Michael Rudas <audiotech50 at gmail.com>
To: "MDLUG's Main discussion list" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: [mdlug] SEMCO SIG-Linux meeting (date & time)
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 08:55:26 -0500

Oops!  Addendum: The meeting is at 6:45 p.m. on Tuesday, December 28th.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Our next SEMCO SIG-Linux meeting has a new location, just north of our
most recent meeting locations.

We are now meeting at the "Motor City Free Geeks" facility at 1511
Jarvis (the corner of Jarvis and Wanda) in Ferndale.  There is a
traffic light at that corner.
<http://www.motorcityfreegeek.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=106&Itemid=55>
My planned presentation is "Starting with a lightweight Linux" and Ken
of "Motor City Free Geeks" will talk about electronics recycling--the
two topics are somewhat related.

You don't have to be a member of either group to attend the meeting,
but like-minded folks are always appreciated!

~~ Michael Rudas
   My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
   My software blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com
   My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/protop
   http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


____________________________________________________________
Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance
If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4d1a0355a8efc92ba64st06vuc


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Tue Dec 28 18:31:51 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2010 18:31:51 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Recovering a stolen computer over the Internet
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikk-=CHwBTRk9Ugew04SFhF_7x7fTPpksxHbhCN@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikk-=CHwBTRk9Ugew04SFhF_7x7fTPpksxHbhCN@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTins_r2YrS4S9ujzYomkY5sLtMRBz7Y2nEAtpW4=@mail.gmail.com>

While this is a Mac system the use of SSH makes for an entertaining story:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4oB28ksiIo&feature=player_embedded


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Dec 29 18:34:54 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2010 18:34:54 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Need an iptables rule for bypassing a proxy
Message-ID: <AANLkTimA+e5x-g72yD7BU+xcJrynkX6Vr1OJ57wW07DD@mail.gmail.com>

I've got DansGuardian on 8080 -> Squid on 3128.  Firefox is set to use
8080 as its proxy.  I need a rule to bypass DG and connect to Squid
directly.  I tried this but it doesn't work:

iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -i lo -p tcp --dport 8080 -j REDIRECT
--to-port 3128

Didn't work with eth0 either.  Firefox reports it doesn't get a
response from the proxy.

The idea here is to bypass DG without having to change Firefox's proxy settings.

(I tried to post this to the mailing list at lugwash.org but their
server is down again.)


From jbroughton at twmi.rr.com  Fri Dec 31 19:08:18 2010
From: jbroughton at twmi.rr.com (Jim Broughton)
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 19:08:18 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Need an iptables rule for bypassing a proxy
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimA+e5x-g72yD7BU+xcJrynkX6Vr1OJ57wW07DD@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimA+e5x-g72yD7BU+xcJrynkX6Vr1OJ57wW07DD@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D1E7072.9040208@twmi.rr.com>

On 12/29/2010 06:34 PM, Jeff Hanson wrote:
> I've got DansGuardian on 8080 ->  Squid on 3128.  Firefox is set to use
> 8080 as its proxy.  I need a rule to bypass DG and connect to Squid
> directly.  I tried this but it doesn't work:
>
> iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -i lo -p tcp --dport 8080 -j REDIRECT
> --to-port 3128
>
> Didn't work with eth0 either.  Firefox reports it doesn't get a
> response from the proxy.
>
> The idea here is to bypass DG without having to change Firefox's proxy settings.
>
> (I tried to post this to the mailing list at lugwash.org but their
> server is down again.)
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
I think if you replace the -i lo with -s 192.168.0.x (or whatever you use as the
machines IP address) you should be all set.

The iptables command you have in your email executes with "-i lo" replaced
with "-s 192.168.0.24" (my machines local ip address for eth0) and returns
no errors. Give it a shot.

Of course I may be wrong but give it a try. If not we'll try something else.

Jim



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Fri Dec 31 20:22:26 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 20:22:26 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Need an iptables rule for bypassing a proxy
In-Reply-To: <4D1E7072.9040208@twmi.rr.com>
References: <AANLkTimA+e5x-g72yD7BU+xcJrynkX6Vr1OJ57wW07DD@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D1E7072.9040208@twmi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikyUw98RS+jVzZm6KE9yVnxJgumkFU4tpsysV8Y@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 7:08 PM, Jim Broughton <jbroughton at twmi.rr.com> wrote:
> I think if you replace the -i lo with -s 192.168.0.x (or whatever you use as
> the
> machines IP address) you should be all set.
>
> The iptables command you have in your email executes with "-i lo" replaced
> with "-s 192.168.0.24" (my machines local ip address for eth0) and returns
> no errors. Give it a shot.
>
> Of course I may be wrong but give it a try. If not we'll try something else.
>

Thanks.  I did get an answer from the Netfilter IRC that worked:
OUTPUT -p tcp -m tcp --dport 8080 -j REDIRECT --to-ports 3128

Basically I needed the output chain, not preroute.  This works locally
which solves my problem.  I'm not sure if it would work on a
firewall/proxy/router with a downstream PC.


