From not_email at comcast.net  Mon Aug  2 14:01:02 2010
From: not_email at comcast.net (Not Email)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2010 14:01:02 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Cheap Netbook
Message-ID: <1280772062.17695.18.camel@localhost>


Gib/All,

One suggestion: Be careful which one of these you get.  Some of them are
not easy to modify for Linux etc.  And specifications from Chinese goods
are most often less then accurate, (aka fictitious).

I have received the netbook, from a company in New York), and have Linux
installed and working.  It is a distribution of Debian ARM based on the
Android kernel.  There are numerous links and the like that would be
worth saving you time should you wish to build.  I will be on IRC over
the next week (handle DiveMichigan), during the day to share my results
as they are ongoing.  I currently have the following installed and
working from an SDHC 2Gb card:

1. ssh - both client and server (sshd).  Server is being a little shy
after other things have been installed.  I need to look at the problem.

2) Apache2 - runs well I have a few pages and can run it locally as we
discussed at the last meeting (time to install and set up under 15
minutes).  Used old pages I had and created 1 page with a note to you
all on it.  I may set it up on one of my IPs so you can get to it
remotely.

3) X11-Xwindows with 3 window managers, XWM, DWM, and Fluxbox (I also
installed X11 fonts, and X11 Auth).  I run it with startx rather then
booting into the X windows manager for everything at the moment.

I am working on more stuff since I have a little extra space on the 2Gb
SDMC card.

Robin



From gib at juno.com  Mon Aug  2 17:20:35 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 21:20:35 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  Cheap Netbook
Message-ID: <20100802.172035.18367.1@webmail07.vgs.untd.com>

Sounds cool. You should bring that to one of the meetings (either mug.org or mdlug.org) so we can get a look at it.

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Not Email <not_email at comcast.net>
To: mdlug at mdlug.org
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Cheap Netbook
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2010 14:01:02 -0400



Gib/All,

One suggestion: Be careful which one of these you get.  Some of them are
not easy to modify for Linux etc.  And specifications from Chinese goods
are most often less then accurate, (aka fictitious).

I have received the netbook, from a company in New York), and have Linux
installed and working.  It is a distribution of Debian ARM based on the
Android kernel.  There are numerous links and the like that would be
worth saving you time should you wish to build.  I will be on IRC over
the next week (handle DiveMichigan), during the day to share my results
as they are ongoing.  I currently have the following installed and
working from an SDHC 2Gb card:

1. ssh - both client and server (sshd).  Server is being a little shy
after other things have been installed.  I need to look at the problem.

2) Apache2 - runs well I have a few pages and can run it locally as we
discussed at the last meeting (time to install and set up under 15
minutes).  Used old pages I had and created 1 page with a note to you
all on it.  I may set it up on one of my IPs so you can get to it
remotely.

3) X11-Xwindows with 3 window managers, XWM, DWM, and Fluxbox (I also
installed X11 fonts, and X11 Auth).  I run it with startx rather then
booting into the X windows manager for everything at the moment.

I am working on more stuff since I have a little extra space on the 2Gb
SDMC card.

Robin

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


____________________________________________________________
2547% Penny Stock Picks?
Our last pick exploded 2547% - Join our free newsletter today!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4c57371a6116521bb9st04vuc


From cymed2 at yahoo.com  Thu Aug  5 14:15:01 2010
From: cymed2 at yahoo.com (Ching-Yi Hsieh)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 11:15:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] my laptop can't mount my file system (SuSE 11.1)
Message-ID: <913641.88150.qm@web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hello everyone,
My laptop can't mount the file system. The message  showed "fsck failed. Please 
repair manually any reboot." Please give me  some advice how to deal with it. 
Thanks a lot.

Ching-Yi


      

From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Aug  5 14:57:29 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 14:57:29 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] my laptop can't mount my file system (SuSE 11.1)
In-Reply-To: <913641.88150.qm@web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <913641.88150.qm@web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTim5wu=9c-eC94Sa1GHzijLQExBDq8JDcCokg0Ln@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 2:15 PM, Ching-Yi Hsieh <cymed2 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> My laptop can't mount the file system. The message ?showed "fsck failed. Please
> repair manually any reboot." Please give me ?some advice how to deal with it.

Boot a LiveCD (or USB), preferably the same distribution/version you
have installed.  Open a terminal and login as root ("sudo su" on
Ubuntu).  Then run fsck against the drive partiton (probably located
at /dev/sda1 or sdb1 or something).  Read the fsck manual page first
("man fsck").  You will probably want the -p option but it depends on
the problem and filesystem type.


From cymed2 at yahoo.com  Thu Aug  5 17:07:29 2010
From: cymed2 at yahoo.com (Ching-Yi Hsieh)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 14:07:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] my laptop can't mount my file system (SuSE 11.1)
	Urgent!!
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTim5wu=9c-eC94Sa1GHzijLQExBDq8JDcCokg0Ln@mail.gmail.com>
References: <913641.88150.qm@web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<AANLkTim5wu=9c-eC94Sa1GHzijLQExBDq8JDcCokg0Ln@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <407963.66577.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hello,
I put LiveCD in CD drive. It loaded Linux kernel directly and entered to the 
pre-installation interface. However, I don't want to re-install, but want to fix 
my problems. Now it is getting worse. I can't log in the root to do anything. 
Please give me some advice. This is urgent. I am willing to pay the labor fee to 
any of you to help me this. Thanks a lot.

Ching-Yi





________________________________
From: Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Thu, August 5, 2010 2:57:29 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] my laptop can't mount my file system (SuSE 11.1)

On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 2:15 PM, Ching-Yi Hsieh <cymed2 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> My laptop can't mount the file system. The message  showed "fsck failed. 
Please
> repair manually any reboot." Please give me  some advice how to deal with it.

Boot a LiveCD (or USB), preferably the same distribution/version you
have installed.  Open a terminal and login as root ("sudo su" on
Ubuntu).  Then run fsck against the drive partiton (probably located
at /dev/sda1 or sdb1 or something).  Read the fsck manual page first
("man fsck").  You will probably want the -p option but it depends on
the problem and filesystem type.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      

From carl at carltm.com  Thu Aug  5 17:39:57 2010
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 17:39:57 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] my laptop can't mount my file system (SuSE 11.1)
 Urgent!!
In-Reply-To: <407963.66577.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <913641.88150.qm@web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<AANLkTim5wu=9c-eC94Sa1GHzijLQExBDq8JDcCokg0Ln@mail.gmail.com>
	<407963.66577.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7b971b4ef4660322d0a3ef663b9e2e3c.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

Ching-Yi Hsieh wrote:
> Hello,
> I put LiveCD in CD drive. It loaded Linux kernel directly and entered to
> the
> pre-installation interface. However, I don't want to re-install, but want
> to fix
> my problems. Now it is getting worse. I can't log in the root to do
> anything.
> Please give me some advice. This is urgent. I am willing to pay the labor
> fee to
> any of you to help me this. Thanks a lot.

Hi Ching-Yi,

Have you tried typing "sudo su -" after booting from the LiveCD?
That might get you root access so you can work on the drive.

If that doesn't work, you might want to download the System Rescue
CD.  http://www.sysresccd.org/Download

Once you have a root shell, you'll want to run "fdisk -l" to make
sure the disk partitions appear correctly.  Then run "fsck -y /dev/XXX"
for each of the Linux partitions.

If the fdisk command doesn't show that you have good partitions,
you might want to get an expert to look at it.

c




From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Aug  5 17:48:39 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 17:48:39 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] my laptop can't mount my file system (SuSE 11.1)
	Urgent!!
In-Reply-To: <407963.66577.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <913641.88150.qm@web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<AANLkTim5wu=9c-eC94Sa1GHzijLQExBDq8JDcCokg0Ln@mail.gmail.com>
	<407963.66577.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikTK9xEHvd5brFYcoo+V3NjUbLTwCyduDME87Bf@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Ching-Yi Hsieh <cymed2 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hello,
> I put LiveCD in CD drive. It loaded Linux kernel directly and entered to the
> pre-installation interface. However, I don't want to re-install, but want to fix
> my problems. Now it is getting worse. I can't log in the root to do anything.
> Please give me some advice. This is urgent. I am willing to pay the labor fee to
> any of you to help me this. Thanks a lot.

What distribution of Linux are you using?  Ubuntu should boot have a
"Try" button which runs off of the CD.  I'm not sure about other
distros.


From drew4096 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  6 05:21:23 2010
From: drew4096 at gmail.com (Drew)
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2010 05:21:23 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] my laptop can't mount my file system (SuSE 11.1)
 Urgent!!
In-Reply-To: <407963.66577.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <913641.88150.qm@web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<AANLkTim5wu=9c-eC94Sa1GHzijLQExBDq8JDcCokg0Ln@mail.gmail.com>
	<407963.66577.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20100806051644.02a0ae70@pop.gmail.com>

At 05:07 PM 8/5/10, Ching-Yi Hsieh wrote:
>Hello,
>I put LiveCD in CD drive. It loaded Linux kernel directly and entered to the
>pre-installation interface. However, I don't want to re-install, but 
>want to fix
>my problems. Now it is getting worse. I can't log in the root to do anything.
>Please give me some advice. This is urgent. I am willing to pay the 
>labor fee to
>any of you to help me this. Thanks a lot.

Try a different Live CD, one that's meant to be a rescue disk. 
Myself, I've had success
with RIPLinux and Insert.

----

- Drew.



From tony at bemushosting.com  Fri Aug  6 08:15:55 2010
From: tony at bemushosting.com (tony at bemushosting.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 08:15:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] New Website Live!
In-Reply-To: <1280437036.2004.8.camel@bemus-remote>
References: <1280413144.26773.8.camel@bemus-remote>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1007291430320.4443@banana.sluggo.net>
	<1280431682.2004.3.camel@bemus-remote>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1007291548040.1867@banana.sluggo.net>
	<1280434708.2004.7.camel@bemus-remote>
	<1280437036.2004.8.camel@bemus-remote>
Message-ID: <1999625524.187411.1281096955635.JavaMail.open-xchange@oxusltgw11.schlund.de>

Ive made the new website live!? Please let me know if you have any problems.
I have made symlinks to the old website to try to make it backward compatable.?
?
Tony Bemus
MDLug.org webmaster

From petertheplumber at att.net  Fri Aug  6 08:40:09 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 08:40:09 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Used HP Printer Free
Message-ID: <20100806084009.390a42f6@Nokia-N800-43-7>

    Free to good home. HP C2009A printer w/10base-T jetdirect card.
    Manufactured date stamp August 1994 TR1. If anyone wants this I'll
    dumpster dive for it. It's dry on top of bagged construction debris
    and under a roof. No other warranties implied.

-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber
Sent from a mobile Internet Tablet


From petertheplumber at att.net  Fri Aug  6 08:56:45 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 08:56:45 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Used HP Printer Free
In-Reply-To: <20100806084009.390a42f6@Nokia-N800-43-7>
References: <20100806084009.390a42f6@Nokia-N800-43-7>
Message-ID: <20100806085645.79b9c95b@Nokia-N800-43-7>

On Fri, 6 Aug 2010 08:40:09 -0400
Peter Bart <petertheplumber at att.net> wrote:

>     Free to good home. HP C2009A printer w/10base-T jetdirect card.
>     Manufactured date stamp August 1994 TR1. If anyone wants this I'll
>     dumpster dive for it. It's dry on top of bagged construction
> debris and under a roof. No other warranties implied.
> 

    I should mention this is in a very tony section of Birmingham on old Woodward. I just liberated a Viewsonic flatscreen HDTV from the same pile in with a box for a new set and a bunch of moving boxes. FWIW

-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber
Sent from a mobile Internet Tablet


From gib at juno.com  Fri Aug  6 11:18:10 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 15:18:10 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  New Website Live!
Message-ID: <20100806.111810.24510.4@webmail22.vgs.untd.com>

Wow. Way cool.
I like the like the statement in the upper right about freedom and such.  Did you make that up?


---------- Original Message ----------
From: "tony at bemushosting.com" <tony at bemushosting.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: [mdlug] New Website Live!
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 08:15:55 -0400 (EDT)

Ive made the new website live!  Please let me know if you have any problems.
I have made symlinks to the old website to try to make it backward compatable. 
 
Tony Bemus
MDLug.org webmaster
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
____________________________________________________________
Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance
If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4c5c27f48fb435b4f4bst06vuc

From gib at juno.com  Fri Aug  6 11:20:15 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 15:20:15 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] my laptop can't mount my file system (SuSE 11.1) Urgent!!
Message-ID: <20100806.112015.24510.5@webmail22.vgs.untd.com>

I wish someone would do a presentation on this fix-it-disk thing.

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Carl T. Miller" <carl at carltm.com>
To: "MDLUG's Main discussion list" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: Re: [mdlug] my laptop can't mount my file system (SuSE 11.1) Urgent!!
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 17:39:57 -0400

Ching-Yi Hsieh wrote:
> Hello,
> I put LiveCD in CD drive. It loaded Linux kernel directly and entered to
> the
> pre-installation interface. However, I don't want to re-install, but want
> to fix
> my problems. Now it is getting worse. I can't log in the root to do
> anything.
> Please give me some advice. This is urgent. I am willing to pay the labor
> fee to
> any of you to help me this. Thanks a lot.

Hi Ching-Yi,

Have you tried typing "sudo su -" after booting from the LiveCD?
That might get you root access so you can work on the drive.

If that doesn't work, you might want to download the System Rescue
CD.  http://www.sysresccd.org/Download

Once you have a root shell, you'll want to run "fdisk -l" to make
sure the disk partitions appear correctly.  Then run "fsck -y /dev/XXX"
for each of the Linux partitions.

If the fdisk command doesn't show that you have good partitions,
you might want to get an expert to look at it.

c


_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
____________________________________________________________
Mortgage Rates Hit 3.25%
If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4c5c286f403355b5088st06vuc

From tesral at wowway.com  Fri Aug  6 11:15:28 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2010 11:15:28 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] New Website Live!
In-Reply-To: <1999625524.187411.1281096955635.JavaMail.open-xchange@oxusltgw11.schlund.de>
References: <1280413144.26773.8.camel@bemus-remote>	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1007291430320.4443@banana.sluggo.net>	<1280431682.2004.3.camel@bemus-remote>	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1007291548040.1867@banana.sluggo.net>	<1280434708.2004.7.camel@bemus-remote>	<1280437036.2004.8.camel@bemus-remote>
	<1999625524.187411.1281096955635.JavaMail.open-xchange@oxusltgw11.schlund.de>
Message-ID: <4C5C2710.80501@wowway.com>

tony at bemushosting.com wrote:
> Ive made the new website live!  Please let me know if you have any problems.
> I have made symlinks to the old website to try to make it backward compatable. 
>  
>   

So far looks good.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Those persons, or societies, easily offended need to be offended until they get over it.
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From tesral at wowway.com  Fri Aug  6 11:19:51 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2010 11:19:51 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Fic it disk.
In-Reply-To: <20100806.112015.24510.5@webmail22.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20100806.112015.24510.5@webmail22.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <4C5C2817.80408@wowway.com>

gib at juno.com wrote:
> I wish someone would do a presentation on this fix-it-disk thing.
>   

OK what is fix-it disk?

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Those persons, or societies, easily offended need to be offended until they get over it.
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From tony at bemushosting.com  Fri Aug  6 12:02:05 2010
From: tony at bemushosting.com (Tony Bemus)
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2010 12:02:05 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] New Website Live!
In-Reply-To: <20100806.111810.24510.4@webmail22.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20100806.111810.24510.4@webmail22.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <1281110525.2401.0.camel@tony-laptop>

Yes,  I did.

Tony


On Fri, 2010-08-06 at 15:18 +0000, gib at juno.com wrote:
> Wow. Way cool.
> I like the like the statement in the upper right about freedom and such.  Did you make that up?
> 
> 
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: "tony at bemushosting.com" <tony at bemushosting.com>
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Subject: [mdlug] New Website Live!
> Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 08:15:55 -0400 (EDT)
> 
> Ive made the new website live!  Please let me know if you have any problems.
> I have made symlinks to the old website to try to make it backward compatable. 
>  
> Tony Bemus
> MDLug.org webmaster
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> ____________________________________________________________
> Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance
> If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4c5c27f48fb435b4f4bst06vuc
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




From gib at juno.com  Fri Aug  6 13:51:32 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 17:51:32 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  New Website Live!
Message-ID: <20100806.135132.12475.1@webmail03.vgs.untd.com>

Cool . . . I want it on a t-shirt.

I clicked on the link for the ". . . more details" for the quote and you mispelled "novice". This is on the contact page:
http://mdlug.org/contact.html
If you need help with your linux problems the best way to contact the MDLug or the members is through our Mailling lists. We have lists that range from novis to experianced users and problems. We even have a list for General Discussions and non-linux related topics. 

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Tony Bemus <tony at bemushosting.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: Re: [mdlug] New Website Live!
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2010 12:02:05 -0400

Yes,  I did.

Tony


On Fri, 2010-08-06 at 15:18 +0000, gib at juno.com wrote:
> Wow. Way cool.
> I like the like the statement in the upper right about freedom and such.  Did you make that up?
> 
> 
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: "tony at bemushosting.com" <tony at bemushosting.com>
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Subject: [mdlug] New Website Live!
> Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 08:15:55 -0400 (EDT)
> 
> Ive made the new website live!  Please let me know if you have any problems.
> I have made symlinks to the old website to try to make it backward compatable. 
>  
> Tony Bemus
> MDLug.org webmaster
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> ____________________________________________________________
> Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance
> If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4c5c27f48fb435b4f4bst06vuc
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From gib at juno.com  Fri Aug  6 15:26:11 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 19:26:11 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] Your Design "mdlugorg" at CustomInk.com
Message-ID: <20100806.152611.26479.0@webmail05.vgs.untd.com>

New t-shirt.  I didn't have a copy of the logo . . .

---------- Forwarded Message ----------
From: "CustomInk.com" <service at customink.com>
To: gib at juno.com
Subject: Your Design "mdlugorg" at CustomInk.com
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 13:56:51 -0400

Your First Design: "mdlugorg"
Product: Gildan Ultra Cotton TRetrieve this Design Edit or Buy this Design Share this design onFacebook orTwitterFrom CustomInk you'll always get:Free Design & Art Help
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From gib at juno.com  Fri Aug  6 15:30:31 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 19:30:31 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  Fix it disk. - system rescue disk
Message-ID: <20100806.153031.26479.2@webmail05.vgs.untd.com>

I was just using non-specific wording. I was refering to the email that talked about the system rescue disk:

 
http://www.sysresccd.org/Download


---------- Original Message ----------
From: Garry Stahl <tesral at wowway.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: [mdlug] Fic it disk.
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2010 11:19:51 -0400

gib at juno.com wrote:
> I wish someone would do a presentation on this fix-it-disk thing.
>   

OK what is fix-it disk?

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Those persons, or societies, easily offended need to be offended until they get over it.
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
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Special Report: Shocking Auctions - iPads $13, iPhones $9, Cameras $8
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4c5c633196a352682dcst05vuc

From micorral at comcast.net  Fri Aug  6 15:46:20 2010
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 15:46:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] New Website Live!
In-Reply-To: <20100806.135132.12475.1@webmail03.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20100806.135132.12475.1@webmail03.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.1008061532260.4500@banana.sluggo.net>

2010-08-06, Monsieur gib at juno.com a ecrit:
> I clicked on the link for the ". . . more details" for the quote and you
> mispelled "novice". This is on the contact page:
> http://mdlug.org/contact.html

That wasn't the only *misspelled* (note the double s :) word. I've put
the corrections in square brackets:

> If you need help with your linux[Linux] problems the best way to contact
> the MDLug[MDLUG] or the members is through our Mailling[mailing] lists.
> We have lists that range from novis[novice] to experianced[experienced]
> users and problems. We even have a list for General Discussions and
> non-linux[Linux] related topics.

There are some additional errors on the rest of that page.

Some of this is easy to catch with a spell-checker, like aspell:

aspell -H check myfile.html

Tony really should run each HTML file through aspell.

Michael


From tesral at wowway.com  Fri Aug  6 17:03:43 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2010 17:03:43 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] New Website Live!
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.00.1008061532260.4500@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <20100806.135132.12475.1@webmail03.vgs.untd.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1008061532260.4500@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <4C5C78AF.1010605@wowway.com>

Michael Corral wrote:
>
> Tony really should run each HTML file through aspell.
>   
Have you ever run a raw HTML file through a spell checker?

I have the KDE spell checker turned on.  It's useful.


-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Those persons, or societies, easily offended need to be offended until they get over it.
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  6 18:18:55 2010
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 18:18:55 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Fic it disk.
In-Reply-To: <4C5C2817.80408@wowway.com>
References: <20100806.112015.24510.5@webmail22.vgs.untd.com>
	<4C5C2817.80408@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTik4FLhj604U-B9r2rjUvNfFSJUihL312AGs09ek@mail.gmail.com>

--- Garry Stahl wrote:

> gib at juno.com wrote:

>> I wish someone would do a presentation on this fix-it-disk thing.
> OK what is fix-it disk?

"System Rescue CD" is one.  The "Universal Boot CD" is another.  The
"Trinity Rescue Kit" is yet another.  They are all Linux-based
multi-purpose CDs with utilities that are useful for Windows, Linux,
or BSD systems, including some utilities that are specific to Windows.
 I would also include the Windows-based "Bart PE"  CD, though that one
is Windows-only.

System Rescue CD: http://www.sysresccd.org
Ultimate Boot CD: http://www.ultimatebootcd.com
Trinity Rescue Kit: <http://trinityhome.org/Home/index.php?wpid=1&front_id=12>

I use all four, to good effect.

~~ Michael Rudas
?? My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
?? My software blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com
?? My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/protop
?? http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey


From micorral at comcast.net  Sat Aug  7 01:44:57 2010
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 01:44:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] New Website Live!
In-Reply-To: <4C5C78AF.1010605@wowway.com>
References: <20100806.135132.12475.1@webmail03.vgs.untd.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1008061532260.4500@banana.sluggo.net>
	<4C5C78AF.1010605@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.1008070139470.5052@banana.sluggo.net>

2010-08-06, Monsieur Garry Stahl a ecrit:
> Michael Corral wrote:
>> Tony really should run each HTML file through aspell.
>>
> Have you ever run a raw HTML file through a spell checker?

Yes, all the time. Have you ever run aspell with the -H option,
as I mentioned in my original reply? :)

Michael


From raymond.s.mclaughlin at gmail.com  Sun Aug  8 17:46:41 2010
From: raymond.s.mclaughlin at gmail.com (Raymond S McLaughlin)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2010 17:46:41 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] New Website Live!
In-Reply-To: <1999625524.187411.1281096955635.JavaMail.open-xchange@oxusltgw11.schlund.de>
References: <1280413144.26773.8.camel@bemus-remote>	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1007291430320.4443@banana.sluggo.net>	<1280431682.2004.3.camel@bemus-remote>	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1007291548040.1867@banana.sluggo.net>	<1280434708.2004.7.camel@bemus-remote>	<1280437036.2004.8.camel@bemus-remote>
	<1999625524.187411.1281096955635.JavaMail.open-xchange@oxusltgw11.schlund.de>
Message-ID: <4C5F25C1.5030609@gmail.com>

tony at bemushosting.com wrote:
> Ive made the new website live!  Please let me know if you have any problems.
> I have made symlinks to the old website to try to make it backward compatable. 
>  
> Tony Bemus
> MDLug.org webmaster

When you moved the information on the old contacts page to the new
about.html you didn't adjust for the different paths to the officers'
pages. I fixed it.

Also I notice that you have turned on directory browsing Previously,
when a browser requested a directory (as opposed to a file) apache was
set up to deliver the index.html in that directory, or else an "Access
Forbidden!" message. I had done this as a privacy matter, to deter
"poking around" Now apache serves up a directory listing. This isn't a
big deal, I was just wondering if this was intentional, and what your
reason was.

Over all the new web site looks great! Good job Tony!

Regards
Raymond McLaughlin
Server Admin MDLUG


From petertheplumber at att.net  Sun Aug  8 20:35:53 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2010 20:35:53 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Help Updating Asus BIOS Using Afudos
Message-ID: <1281314153.4686.137.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

Hi,
	The particular model I have; T91MT; does not come with ez flash or
Linux. Since I blew away Windows in favor of UNR 10.04 I was a little
stuck. But here is what eventually succeeded for me. Download afudos and
the .rom bios file to ~/Downloads. Delete everything else in there or
use another location. Rename the .rom file from T91MT-ASUS-0601 to
T91MT.ROM. Please note use of all upper case.

Either on the system to be updated or another, please note instructions
assume Ubuntu/Debian is used.
>From <http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=318789>  M2: CD with
changes to include afudos. With help from
<http://wiki.eeeuser.com/howto:updatebios#upgrade_mechanisms>, the part
about afudos. Get afudos from here
<http://dlsvr01.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/flash/AFUDOS219.zip>. Alternatively
you can go to
http://support.asus.com/download/download.aspx?SLanguage=en-us, select
Desktop PC/Commercial/T5120 and then Search. Select DOS in the popup
box, expand bios utilities and you'll be able to download a later
version. I'm not sure exactly what part it plays but it's provided by
<http://www.freedos.org/>. I couldn't find just afudos there. Make sure
you don't copy a lot of other stuff into /tmp/cdr you don't want before
you unmount that directory. This may come from the users /home
directory.

code:
wget http://www.fdos.org/bootdisks/autogen/FDOEM.144.gz
gunzip FDOEM.144.gz
mkdir /tmp/cdr
sudo mount -t vfat -o loop FDOEM.144 /tmp/cdr
#sudo cp ~/Downloads/T91MT-ASUS-0601.rom /tmp/cdr
#sudo cp ~/Downloads/AFUDOS.exe /tmp/cdr
sudo cp ~/Downloads/* /tmp/cdr
sudo umount /tmp/cdr
sudo apt-get install mkisofs
mkisofs -o T91MT.iso -b FDOEM.144 FDOEM.144
cdrecord -v T91MT.iso

This should hopefully create a bootable .iso cd. Boot from cd and follow
directions at
http://support.asus.com/technicaldocuments/technicaldocuments_content.aspx?no=546&SLanguage=en-us. 

code:
afudos /iT91MT.ROM

This has fixed my resume problem, which I was inclined to believe it
would not based on Asus's changelog. But there you have it. To get my
Asus to boot from the external cd/dvd drive, during boot enter the bios
(F2), select boot>boot device priority. Make sure the external drive is
listed, esc to exit, exit saving changes (which were none), during
reboot enter boot selection by pressing esc and select the drive.

-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sun Aug  8 23:15:11 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 23:15:11 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Help Updating Asus BIOS Using Afudos
In-Reply-To: <1281314153.4686.137.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
References: <1281314153.4686.137.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikG3okTOqwdjcYBOPCpMhNBdkWk+GkpbqnEGc7p@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 8:35 PM, Peter Bart <petertheplumber at att.net> wrote:
> I'm not sure exactly what part it plays but it's provided by
> <http://www.freedos.org/>.

I have a loopback mounted floppy image of FreeDOS on my server that I
can netboot over PXE.  It's writable so I can just copy the ROM image
and update utility to it and then netboot the target to get a FreeDOS
prompt.  Saves from having to connect a floppy drive to the target.


From petertheplumber at att.net  Mon Aug  9 05:32:59 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 05:32:59 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Help Updating Asus BIOS Using Afudos
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikG3okTOqwdjcYBOPCpMhNBdkWk+GkpbqnEGc7p@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1281314153.4686.137.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
	<AANLkTikG3okTOqwdjcYBOPCpMhNBdkWk+GkpbqnEGc7p@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100809053259.16071e0e@Nokia-N800-43-7>

On Sun, 8 Aug 2010 23:15:11 -0400
Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 8:35 PM, Peter Bart <petertheplumber at att.net>
> wrote:
> > I'm not sure exactly what part it plays but it's provided by
> > <http://www.freedos.org/>.
> 
> I have a loopback mounted floppy image of FreeDOS on my server that I
> can netboot over PXE.  It's writable so I can just copy the ROM image
> and update utility to it and then netboot the target to get a FreeDOS
> prompt.  Saves from having to connect a floppy drive to the target.

Why didn't you say so?!? Make me go through all this by myself ;)

-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber
Sent from a mobile Internet Tablet


From tony at bemushosting.com  Mon Aug  9 07:47:07 2010
From: tony at bemushosting.com (Tony Bemus)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 07:47:07 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] New Website Live!
Message-ID: <0Lllpg-1PHUVx326S-00ZHnZ@mrelay.perfora.net>

I did turn on the directory listing because i made symlinks to the old website, trying to make it particialy backwards compatible.  Do you know of a better way?
Tony Bemus
Sent from my smartphone

-----Original Message-----
From: Raymond S McLaughlin <raymond.s.mclaughlin at gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 5:46 PM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: Re: [mdlug] New Website Live!

tony at bemushosting.com wrote:
> Ive made the new website live!  Please let me know if you have any problems.
> I have made symlinks to the old website to try to make it backward compatable. 
>  
> Tony Bemus
> MDLug.org webmaster

When you moved the information on the old contacts page to the new
about.html you didn't adjust for the different paths to the officers'
pages. I fixed it.

Also I notice that you have turned on directory browsing Previously,
when a browser requested a directory (as opposed to a file) apache was
set up to deliver the index.html in that directory, or else an "Access
Forbidden!" message. I had done this as a privacy matter, to deter
"poking around" Now apache serves up a directory listing. This isn't a
big deal, I was just wondering if this was intentional, and what your
reason was.

Over all the new web site looks great! Good job Tony!

Regards
Raymond McLaughlin
Server Admin MDLUG
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From gib at juno.com  Mon Aug  9 10:31:15 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 14:31:15 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  Help Updating Asus BIOS Using Afudos
Message-ID: <20100809.103115.4363.0@webmail20.vgs.untd.com>

You guys really should come to some of our meetings so you can show us this stuff.

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Peter Bart <petertheplumber at att.net>
To: Metro Detroit Linux Users Group <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Help Updating Asus BIOS Using Afudos
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 05:32:59 -0400

On Sun, 8 Aug 2010 23:15:11 -0400
Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 8:35 PM, Peter Bart <petertheplumber at att.net>
> wrote:
> > I'm not sure exactly what part it plays but it's provided by
> > <http://www.freedos.org/>.
> 
> I have a loopback mounted floppy image of FreeDOS on my server that I
> can netboot over PXE.  It's writable so I can just copy the ROM image
> and update utility to it and then netboot the target to get a FreeDOS
> prompt.  Saves from having to connect a floppy drive to the target.

Why didn't you say so?!? Make me go through all this by myself ;)

-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber
Sent from a mobile Internet Tablet
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
____________________________________________________________
PMP Certification Prep
100% Online PMP Exam Prep course from Villanova University. Learn More.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4c60115cd0adf2c074ast05vuc

From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Aug  9 20:19:49 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 20:19:49 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Help Updating Asus BIOS Using Afudos
In-Reply-To: <20100809.103115.4363.0@webmail20.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20100809.103115.4363.0@webmail20.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikj9LMat9Q97XNk20etRya=YB5r2EV5cX+=uy3Z@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 10:31 AM, gib at juno.com <gib at juno.com> wrote:
> You guys really should come to some of our meetings so you can show us this stuff.
>

I need to document it and create a system that is more portable than a
huge server.  I also need to get beyond the Debian-based distros and
get PXE working with some of the others.


From gib at juno.com  Tue Aug 10 10:27:33 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 14:27:33 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] Apache and Config for files outside of www dir
Message-ID: <20100810.102733.3861.0@webmail23.vgs.untd.com>

I'm trying to set up my web server to allow me to have the files on my large drive assessable.  I'm running into what, I assume, is a security issue that someone would be able help with.

I've got the server up and running with current Ubuntu. I've got my large drive with many files. I try setting up soft links to the large drive directory. I don't see why but I can't set up the directory security to allow group and other the read and execute.  

Directory on the small drive:
/var/www
This works fine.

I set up a new directory and set the permissions:
/media/mydrivename/mystuff
I do a soft link:
ln -s /var/www/mystuff  /media/mydrivename/mystuff
The higher level directory "/media/mydrivename" seems to have group and other without read and execute. Repeated attemps to chmod don't seem to resove the issue.
 
 
____________________________________________________________
3 Free Credit Scores
Access Your 2010 Credit Report and Free 3-Bureau Credit Scores Instantly!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4c616228c1eb163e50fst06vuc

From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Tue Aug 10 11:52:29 2010
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 11:52:29 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Apache and Config for files outside of www dir
In-Reply-To: <20100810.102733.3861.0@webmail23.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20100810.102733.3861.0@webmail23.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE469022FDBADB1@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

Instead of creating a soft link, you could, in your httpd.conf, do

Alias /mystuff/ /media/mydrivename/mystuff/

Then you might need a Directory entry for /mystuff/

<Directory /media/mydrivename/mystuff>
   Options Indexes
   AllowOverride None
   Order allow,deny
   Allow from all
</Directory>

You may need to tweak some of the directives in the <Directory></Directory> block, but that should be a relatively straightforward method of doing what you are trying to do.

Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of gib at juno.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 10:28 AM
To: mdlug at mdlug.org
Subject: [mdlug] Apache and Config for files outside of www dir

I'm trying to set up my web server to allow me to have the files on my large drive assessable.  I'm running into what, I assume, is a security issue that someone would be able help with.

I've got the server up and running with current Ubuntu. I've got my large drive with many files. I try setting up soft links to the large drive directory. I don't see why but I can't set up the directory security to allow group and other the read and execute.  

Directory on the small drive:
/var/www
This works fine.

I set up a new directory and set the permissions:
/media/mydrivename/mystuff
I do a soft link:
ln -s /var/www/mystuff  /media/mydrivename/mystuff
The higher level directory "/media/mydrivename" seems to have group and other without read and execute. Repeated attemps to chmod don't seem to resove the issue.
 
 
____________________________________________________________
3 Free Credit Scores
Access Your 2010 Credit Report and Free 3-Bureau Credit Scores Instantly!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4c616228c1eb163e50fst06vuc
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From raymond.s.mclaughlin at gmail.com  Tue Aug 10 15:50:17 2010
From: raymond.s.mclaughlin at gmail.com (Raymond S McLaughlin)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 15:50:17 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] New Website Live!
In-Reply-To: <0Lllpg-1PHUVx326S-00ZHnZ@mrelay.perfora.net>
References: <0Lllpg-1PHUVx326S-00ZHnZ@mrelay.perfora.net>
Message-ID: <4C61AD79.1090102@gmail.com>

Um, symlinks and directory listings are two separate things, afaik. The
old web site was highly dependent on symlinks while directory browsing
was turned off. I appreciate the effort, and it makes little difference.

Also, have you considered adding a counter so we can see just how many
(few) visitors we get?

Keep up the good work

Raymond McLaughlin
Server Admin MDLUG

Tony Bemus wrote:
> I did turn on the directory listing because i made symlinks to the old website, trying to make it particialy backwards compatible.  Do you know of a better way?
> Tony Bemus
> Sent from my smartphone
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Raymond S McLaughlin <raymond.s.mclaughlin at gmail.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 5:46 PM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] New Website Live!
> 
> When you moved the information on the old contacts page to the new
> about.html you didn't adjust for the different paths to the officers'
> pages. I fixed it.
> 
> Also I notice that you have turned on directory browsing Previously,
> when a browser requested a directory (as opposed to a file) apache was
> set up to deliver the index.html in that directory, or else an "Access
> Forbidden!" message. I had done this as a privacy matter, to deter
> "poking around" Now apache serves up a directory listing. This isn't a
> big deal, I was just wondering if this was intentional, and what your
> reason was.
> 
> Over all the new web site looks great! Good job Tony!
> 
> Regards
> Raymond McLaughlin
> Server Admin MDLUG



From tony at bemushosting.com  Tue Aug 10 19:09:57 2010
From: tony at bemushosting.com (Tony Bemus)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 19:09:57 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] New Website Live!
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.00.1008061532260.4500@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <20100806.135132.12475.1@webmail03.vgs.untd.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1008061532260.4500@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <1281481797.3121.1.camel@tony-laptop>

aspell is great!!  -H worked perfectly!!

Thank You Micheal!

Tony Bemus

On Fri, 2010-08-06 at 15:46 -0400, Michael Corral wrote:
> 2010-08-06, Monsieur gib at juno.com a ecrit:
> > I clicked on the link for the ". . . more details" for the quote and you
> > mispelled "novice". This is on the contact page:
> > http://mdlug.org/contact.html
> 
> That wasn't the only *misspelled* (note the double s :) word. I've put
> the corrections in square brackets:
> 
> > If you need help with your linux[Linux] problems the best way to contact
> > the MDLug[MDLUG] or the members is through our Mailling[mailing] lists.
> > We have lists that range from novis[novice] to experianced[experienced]
> > users and problems. We even have a list for General Discussions and
> > non-linux[Linux] related topics.
> 
> There are some additional errors on the rest of that page.
> 
> Some of this is easy to catch with a spell-checker, like aspell:
> 
> aspell -H check myfile.html
> 
> Tony really should run each HTML file through aspell.
> 
> Michael
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Wed Aug 11 13:31:30 2010
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Dr. Robert Meier)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 13:31:30 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] my laptop can't mount my file system (SuSE
	11.1)	Urgent!!
In-Reply-To: <407963.66577.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <913641.88150.qm@web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<AANLkTim5wu=9c-eC94Sa1GHzijLQExBDq8JDcCokg0Ln@mail.gmail.com>
	<407963.66577.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4C62DE72.8060305@bellsouth.net>

Ching-Yi,

 >>> On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 2:15 PM, Ching-Yi Hsieh<cymed2 at yahoo.com> 
wrote:
 >>> My laptop can't mount the file system.
 >>> The message  showed
 >>>  "fsck failed.  Please repair manually [and] reboot."
 >>> Please give me  some advice how to deal with it.
 >> On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 2:57:29 PM, Jeff Hanson<jhansonxi at gmail.com> wrote
 >> Boot a LiveCD (or USB),
 >> preferably the same distribution/version you have installed.
 >> Open a terminal and login as root ("sudo su" on > Ubuntu).
 >> Then run fsck against the drive [partition]
 >> (probably located at /dev/sda1 or sdb1 or something).
 >> Read the fsck manual page first ("man fsck").
 >> You will probably want the -p option
 >> but it depends on the problem and filesystem type.
> I put LiveCD in CD drive.
 > It loaded Linux kernel directly and entered to the pre-installation 
interface.
 > However, I don't want to re-install, but want to fix my problems.
 > Now it is getting worse. I can't log in the root to do anything.
> Please give me some advice. This is urgent.
 > I am willing to pay the labor fee to any of you to help me this. 
Thanks a lot.

I suspect the confusion lies in the phrase "Boot a LiveCD",
by which Jeff Hanson meant to use a rescue system.
Most distros include a "LiveCD" (or set of LiveCDs) that allows one to
   demo the distro without installing (usual default)
   install the distro
   self-test the media
   perform computer repair operations

A "LiveCD" used for repair purposes is also known as a "Rescue System".
Some distros use the demo as the rescue system.
Some distros (notably openSuSE) provide a more sophisticated rescue
system on a separate disk.  Some distros (notably TomsRtBoot) are
intended primarily as a rescue system.

If you cannot identify the menu(?) option to use the LiveCD as a rescue
system rather than an install, please identify the distro (e.g. Ubuntu,
Fedora, Mandriva, ...) that you are using, and someone familiar with
that distro should be able to tell you specifically where to find
the option (disk(?) and menu(?)).

Hopefully helpful,
--
Bob

Dr. Robert Meier


From petertheplumber at att.net  Thu Aug 12 09:33:56 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 09:33:56 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Help Updating Asus BIOS Using Afudos
In-Reply-To: <20100809.103115.4363.0@webmail20.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20100809.103115.4363.0@webmail20.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <20100812093356.6783c859@Nokia-N800-43-7>

On Mon, 9 Aug 2010 14:31:15 GMT
"gib at juno.com" <gib at juno.com> wrote:

> You guys really should come to some of our meetings so you can show
> us this stuff.
> 
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: Peter Bart <petertheplumber at att.net>
> To: Metro Detroit Linux Users Group <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Help Updating Asus BIOS Using Afudos
> Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 05:32:59 -0400
> 
> On Sun, 8 Aug 2010 23:15:11 -0400
> Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 8:35 PM, Peter Bart <petertheplumber at att.net>
> > wrote:
> > > I'm not sure exactly what part it plays but it's provided by
> > > <http://www.freedos.org/>.
> > 
> > I have a loopback mounted floppy image of FreeDOS on my server that
> > I can netboot over PXE.  It's writable so I can just copy the ROM
> > image and update utility to it and then netboot the target to get a
> > FreeDOS prompt.  Saves from having to connect a floppy drive to the
> > target.
> 
> Why didn't you say so?!? Make me go through all this by myself ;)
> 

    I'll make a point of it if there's interest.

-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber
Sent from a mobile Internet Tablet


From carl at carltm.com  Sun Aug 15 01:31:44 2010
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 01:31:44 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] How was the meeting?
Message-ID: <274ce906a1e7264ca2a397c1a1101966.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

Have you ever seen a magician make something disappear in
the blink of an eye?  That's what happened to me on Saturday.

I was really hoping to attend the meeting.  So how did it go?
How was the presentation?  Did Mat have anything entertaining
to complain about?

c




From tony at bemushosting.com  Sun Aug 15 01:41:12 2010
From: tony at bemushosting.com (Tony Bemus)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 01:41:12 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] How was the meeting?
Message-ID: <0MNaHi-1OqXZl0tDO-0079uW@mrelay.perfora.net>

Unfortunately Mat was not able to make the meeting.  In his absense his wife opened the room for us.  I sat in for him and gave his Tech Tip, Reseting the root password. Then I contunued on with my presentation on how to setup a LAMP server.  Notes for both is available on the new www.mdlug.org Site.  

Tony Bemus
Sent from my smartphone

-----Original Message-----
From: Carl T. Miller <carl at carltm.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 1:31 AM
To: MDLUG List <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: [mdlug] How was the meeting?

Have you ever seen a magician make something disappear in
the blink of an eye?  That's what happened to me on Saturday.

I was really hoping to attend the meeting.  So how did it go?
How was the presentation?  Did Mat have anything entertaining
to complain about?

c


_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From carl at carltm.com  Sun Aug 15 02:02:54 2010
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 02:02:54 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] How was the meeting?
In-Reply-To: <0MNaHi-1OqXZl0tDO-0079uW@mrelay.perfora.net>
References: <0MNaHi-1OqXZl0tDO-0079uW@mrelay.perfora.net>
Message-ID: <427304d9f24d7f982125ab89f0ec48f8.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

Very cool.  Thanks, Tony.

c


Tony Bemus wrote:
> Unfortunately Mat was not able to make the meeting.  In his absense his
> wife opened the room for us.  I sat in for him and gave his Tech Tip,
> Reseting the root password. Then I contunued on with my presentation on
> how to setup a LAMP server.  Notes for both is available on the new
> www.mdlug.org Site.
>
> Tony Bemus
> Sent from my smartphone
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carl T. Miller <carl at carltm.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 1:31 AM
> To: MDLUG List <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Subject: [mdlug] How was the meeting?
>
> Have you ever seen a magician make something disappear in
> the blink of an eye?  That's what happened to me on Saturday.
>
> I was really hoping to attend the meeting.  So how did it go?
> How was the presentation?  Did Mat have anything entertaining
> to complain about?
>
> c
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>




From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Sun Aug 15 17:45:34 2010
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Dr. Robert Meier)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 17:45:34 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Periodic backup software (dis)recommendations
Message-ID: <4C685FFE.8000701@bellsouth.net>

Data Specialists,

I'm configuring a new computer, and now is the time to consider
backup strategy.

What tools and/or features do you (dis)recommend?



In the past, I used cprcdr because of the following features.
   o scriptable map of live namespace to cd
   o ls -R index of each cd retained and searchable in live space

TIA,
--
Bob


From mat.enders at gmail.com  Sun Aug 15 17:56:25 2010
From: mat.enders at gmail.com (mat.enders at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 21:56:25 +0000
Subject: [mdlug] Periodic backup software (dis)recommendations
Message-ID: <1738859730-1281909386-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-322113277-@bda326.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

My only backup strategy is rsync and cron
------Original Message------
From: Dr. Robert Meier
Sender: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
ReplyTo: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: [mdlug] Periodic backup software (dis)recommendations
Sent: Aug 15, 2010 17:45

Data Specialists,

I'm configuring a new computer, and now is the time to consider
backup strategy.

What tools and/or features do you (dis)recommend?



In the past, I used cprcdr because of the following features.
   o scriptable map of live namespace to cd
   o ls -R index of each cd retained and searchable in live space

TIA,
--
Bob
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


Sent on the Sprint? Now Network from my BlackBerry?

From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sun Aug 15 18:05:25 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 18:05:25 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Periodic backup software (dis)recommendations
In-Reply-To: <4C685FFE.8000701@bellsouth.net>
References: <4C685FFE.8000701@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimp-sC1zXD+DFz4oa8_S6VZ1VZO9-b06qtPVa2b@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Dr. Robert Meier
<list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Data Specialists,
>
> I'm configuring a new computer, and now is the time to consider
> backup strategy.
>
> What tools and/or features do you (dis)recommend?
>
>
>
> In the past, I used cprcdr because of the following features.
> ? o scriptable map of live namespace to cd
> ? o ls -R index of each cd retained and searchable in live space

I'm using BackupPC on a server but it's not the easiest thing to set
up.  My workstation has a bunch of NFS shares to it so they are backed
up there instead of a remote backup from my workstation.  I'm using a
RAID1 mirror and add a third drive occasionally.  After it syncs I
take it off-site.


From petertheplumber at att.net  Sun Aug 15 19:02:41 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 19:02:41 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Periodic backup software (dis)recommendations
In-Reply-To: <4C685FFE.8000701@bellsouth.net>
References: <4C685FFE.8000701@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <1281913361.4686.237.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

On Sun, 2010-08-15 at 17:45 -0400, Dr. Robert Meier wrote:
> Data Specialists,
> 
> I'm configuring a new computer, and now is the time to consider
> backup strategy.
> 
> What tools and/or features do you (dis)recommend?
> 
> 
> 
> In the past, I used cprcdr because of the following features.
>    o scriptable map of live namespace to cd
>    o ls -R index of each cd retained and searchable in live space
> 

Dear Bob,
	Back in Time is what I use, but I'm not sure if it does what you want
it to do. <http://backintime.le-web.org/>
-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber



From carl at carltm.com  Sun Aug 15 20:54:51 2010
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 20:54:51 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Periodic backup software (dis)recommendations
In-Reply-To: <1738859730-1281909386-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-322113277-@bda326.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <1738859730-1281909386-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-322113277-@bda326.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <ba8adf15f1729d269d26df84727c7769.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

I use and recommend backuppc.  It's like rsync and cron
on steroids.  And it lets you see the history of files
over time.

c


mat.enders at gmail.com wrote:
> My only backup strategy is rsync and cron
> ------Original Message------
> From: Dr. Robert Meier
> Sender: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> ReplyTo: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: [mdlug] Periodic backup software (dis)recommendations
> Sent: Aug 15, 2010 17:45
>
> Data Specialists,
>
> I'm configuring a new computer, and now is the time to consider
> backup strategy.
>
> What tools and/or features do you (dis)recommend?
>
>
>
> In the past, I used cprcdr because of the following features.
>    o scriptable map of live namespace to cd
>    o ls -R index of each cd retained and searchable in live space
>
> TIA,
> --
> Bob
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>
> Sent on the Sprint? Now Network from my BlackBerry?
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>




From relson at osagesoftware.com  Sun Aug 15 20:53:01 2010
From: relson at osagesoftware.com (David Relson)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 20:53:01 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Periodic backup software (dis)recommendations
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimp-sC1zXD+DFz4oa8_S6VZ1VZO9-b06qtPVa2b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4C685FFE.8000701@bellsouth.net>
	<AANLkTimp-sC1zXD+DFz4oa8_S6VZ1VZO9-b06qtPVa2b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100815205301.55de6cad@osage.osagesoftware.com>

On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 18:05:25 -0400
Jeff Hanson wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Dr. Robert Meier
> <list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > Data Specialists,
> >
> > I'm configuring a new computer, and now is the time to consider
> > backup strategy.
> >
> > What tools and/or features do you (dis)recommend?
> >
> >
> >
> > In the past, I used cprcdr because of the following features.
> > ? o scriptable map of live namespace to cd
> > ? o ls -R index of each cd retained and searchable in live space
> 
> I'm using BackupPC on a server but it's not the easiest thing to set
> up.  My workstation has a bunch of NFS shares to it so they are backed
> up there instead of a remote backup from my workstation.  I'm using a
> RAID1 mirror and add a third drive occasionally.  After it syncs I
> take it off-site.

I, too, use BackupPC.  I much like the way it automatically tracks full
and incremental backups and the way it pools the backup files.  With
its pooling, only a single copy of a file is kept so that multiple
backups of a file are linked to the single copy.  This saves a huge
amount of space.


From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Sun Aug 15 21:21:03 2010
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 21:21:03 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Periodic backup software (dis)recommendations
References: <4C685FFE.8000701@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <FA7FB3A37F8C4F0699DCC38096B8950B@homepc>

I implemented Amanda and have a dedicated drive that is configured with 50 
virtual tapes.  I arbitrarily choose 50 vtapes, not knowing exactly how much 
space was going to be needed for a full cycle of backups (I probably could 
have done a reasonably close calculation).  After running for about a year, 
the overall disk space utilitization averages 15%.  So I could easily bump 
up the number of vtapes to 200 without much worry.  But it don't seem to get 
any requests to restore files past 30 days, so I figure might as well leave 
it at 50.  And I have to say, dealing with vtapes is a LOT easier than real 
tapes.  But a bit more difficult to take off site.  :-)  Hmmm... maybe I 
should incorporate some removable media to synchronize with the latest full 
backup on a weekly basis that could be taken off site.  We have a fairly 
slow Internet pipe, so using an Internet based backup solution probably 
won't work.

-Mike


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dr. Robert Meier" <list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net>
To: "MDLUG's Main discussion list" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 5:45 PM
Subject: [mdlug] Periodic backup software (dis)recommendations


> Data Specialists,
>
> I'm configuring a new computer, and now is the time to consider
> backup strategy.
>
> What tools and/or features do you (dis)recommend?
>
>
>
> In the past, I used cprcdr because of the following features.
>   o scriptable map of live namespace to cd
>   o ls -R index of each cd retained and searchable in live space
>
> TIA,
> --
> Bob
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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14:35:00




From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Sun Aug 15 22:25:18 2010
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 22:25:18 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] non-bind DNS server
Message-ID: <3E718A533F6A47FBA20F89A6F21501DA@homepc>

Anyone out there using a DNS server, other than bind?  Maybe something with 
a web based GUI.

-Mike 




From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sun Aug 15 22:36:55 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 22:36:55 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] non-bind DNS server
In-Reply-To: <3E718A533F6A47FBA20F89A6F21501DA@homepc>
References: <3E718A533F6A47FBA20F89A6F21501DA@homepc>
Message-ID: <AANLkTim33-=TAmdH6RkQtPVctYETGO75duGzniwoU+t-@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 10:25 PM, Michael ORourke
<mrorourke at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Anyone out there using a DNS server, other than bind? ?Maybe something with
> a web based GUI.
>

Webmin supports BIND.


From jrw32982 at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 15 23:21:20 2010
From: jrw32982 at yahoo.com (John Wiersba)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 20:21:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Periodic backup software (dis)recommendations
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1281926228.4813.mdlug@mdlug.org>
References: <mailman.3.1281926228.4813.mdlug@mdlug.org>
Message-ID: <862144.19883.qm@web52707.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I would recommend backing up to an external disk or server, not using CD or 
DVDs.  There are many reasons to do so, one of which is the convenience of 
accessing your backup for restoring files or just exploring previous backup 
points.

Up until recently, I used a variation of rsync called rsnapshot (a perl script 
which calls rsync).  It keeps snapshots of your backed up data using hard links, 
so that unchanged files do not take up any extra disk space in subsequent 
snapshots.  


Now, I just use rsync directly with a little shell wrapper, for greater control 
over my specific requirements.  On modern systems rsync can handle the hard 
linking itself -- you just need to determine the directory to hard link to 
(namely, your most recent snapshot directory):

   /usr/bin/rsync -a    \
      --numeric-ids     \
      --relative        \
      --delete          \
      --delete-excluded \
      --link-dest=$PREV \
      $EXCLUDES         \
      $FROM             \
      $TO

You can add -x and -H if appropriate.  PREV is the previous snapshot directory, 
EXCLUDES is a list of exclude options (optional).  FROM is the source 
directory.  TO is the new snapshot location.


      

From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Mon Aug 16 08:49:28 2010
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 08:49:28 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] non-bind DNS server
In-Reply-To: <3E718A533F6A47FBA20F89A6F21501DA@homepc>
References: <3E718A533F6A47FBA20F89A6F21501DA@homepc>
Message-ID: <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690230117D72@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

I use djbdns all over the place in lieu of bind.  He's simplified the configuration while still maintaining all the functionality that I've needed.  I haven't found any good web-based admin tools (in fact, I took a shot at building one).  It's also supposed to be ultra-secure (the author even offers up "insurance" in the form of $5000 (I think) with a guarantee that if your system ever gets compromised, it won't be djbdns that was used as an attack vector).

Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Michael ORourke
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 10:25 PM
To: MDLUG's main mailing list
Subject: [mdlug] non-bind DNS server

Anyone out there using a DNS server, other than bind?  Maybe something with 
a web based GUI.

-Mike 


_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From gib at juno.com  Mon Aug 16 09:00:53 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 13:00:53 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] Periodic backup software (dis)recommendations -
	Presentation?
Message-ID: <20100816.090053.26851.0@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>

Seems like back up solutions may be a good topic for a future presentation.

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Michael ORourke" <mrorourke at earthlink.net>
To: "MDLUG's Main discussion list" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Periodic backup software (dis)recommendations
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 21:21:03 -0400

I implemented Amanda and have a dedicated drive that is configured with 50 
virtual tapes.  I arbitrarily choose 50 vtapes, not knowing exactly how much 
space was going to be needed for a full cycle of backups (I probably could 
have done a reasonably close calculation).  After running for about a year, 
the overall disk space utilitization averages 15%.  So I could easily bump 
up the number of vtapes to 200 without much worry.  But it don't seem to get 
any requests to restore files past 30 days, so I figure might as well leave 
it at 50.  And I have to say, dealing with vtapes is a LOT easier than real 
tapes.  But a bit more difficult to take off site.  :-)  Hmmm... maybe I 
should incorporate some removable media to synchronize with the latest full 
backup on a weekly basis that could be taken off site.  We have a fairly 
slow Internet pipe, so using an Internet based backup solution probably 
won't work.

-Mike


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dr. Robert Meier" <list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net>
To: "MDLUG's Main discussion list" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 5:45 PM
Subject: [mdlug] Periodic backup software (dis)recommendations


> Data Specialists,
>
> I'm configuring a new computer, and now is the time to consider
> backup strategy.
>
> What tools and/or features do you (dis)recommend?
>
>
>
> In the past, I used cprcdr because of the following features.
>   o scriptable map of live namespace to cd
>   o ls -R index of each cd retained and searchable in live space
>
> TIA,
> --
> Bob
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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From tesral at wowway.com  Mon Aug 16 10:10:58 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 10:10:58 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Periodic backup software (dis)recommendations
In-Reply-To: <862144.19883.qm@web52707.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.3.1281926228.4813.mdlug@mdlug.org>
	<862144.19883.qm@web52707.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4C6946F2.9040702@wowway.com>

John Wiersba wrote:
>
>    /usr/bin/rsync -a    \
>       --numeric-ids     \
>       --relative        \
>       --delete          \
>       --delete-excluded \
>       --link-dest=$PREV \
>       $EXCLUDES         \
>       $FROM             \
>       $TO
>
>   

Similar to the script I use as well.  Mine is even shorter. 

rsync -avz /home'user/ /backup/



-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Those persons, or societies, easily offended need to be offended until they get over it.
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From danno at umich.edu  Mon Aug 16 10:45:19 2010
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 10:45:19 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] non-bind DNS server
In-Reply-To: <3E718A533F6A47FBA20F89A6F21501DA@homepc>
References: <3E718A533F6A47FBA20F89A6F21501DA@homepc>
Message-ID: <20100816144519.GA80778@maniac.deathstar.org>

On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 10:25:18PM -0400, Michael ORourke wrote:
> Anyone out there using a DNS server, other than bind?  Maybe something with 
> a web based GUI.

I'm sure there are plenty of web GUIs for BIND.  

I have heard good things about "unbound" and "dnsmasq" if all you
need is a local caching server.

dnsmasq talks about being targeted to home networks, but I've talked
to sysadmins at commercial sites who liked it.

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From awilliam at opengroupware.us  Mon Aug 16 10:51:38 2010
From: awilliam at opengroupware.us (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 10:51:38 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] non-bind DNS server
In-Reply-To: <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690230117D72@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
References: <3E718A533F6A47FBA20F89A6F21501DA@homepc>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690230117D72@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
Message-ID: <1281970298.7351.10.camel@linux-yu4c.site>

On Mon, 2010-08-16 at 08:49 -0400, Wojtak, Greg wrote:
> I use djbdns all over the place in lieu of bind.  
> He's simplified the configuration while still maintaining all the functionality that I've needed. 

This has always been a claim of djbdns users.

I don't buy it - what about managing an ISC Bind DNS server is
complicated?  What *specifically* does djbdns simplify?

-- 
Adam Tauno Williams <awilliam at whitemice.org> LPIC-1, Novell CLA
<http://www.whitemiceconsulting.com>
OpenGroupware, Cyrus IMAPd, Postfix, OpenLDAP, Samba




From danno at umich.edu  Mon Aug 16 10:49:25 2010
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 10:49:25 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Periodic backup software (dis)recommendations
In-Reply-To: <ba8adf15f1729d269d26df84727c7769.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
References: <1738859730-1281909386-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-322113277-@bda326.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<ba8adf15f1729d269d26df84727c7769.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <20100816144925.GB80778@maniac.deathstar.org>

On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 08:54:51PM -0400, Carl T. Miller wrote:
> I use and recommend backuppc.  It's like rsync and cron
> on steroids.  And it lets you see the history of files
> over time.

I'm a fan of BackupPC too. 

Note, however, that it is difficult to replicate the backuppc
data store; it makes extensive use of hard links, so duplicating
the backuppc filesystem via traditional means takes FOREVER.

OTOH you can just use dd to dup the entire filesystem to another
disk.

This reminds me, make sure you use a filesystem with dynamic inode
allocation (xfs, jfs), or if you are stuck with ext3 make sure to
create the filesystem with lots of inodes, many more than
the default.

danno


From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Mon Aug 16 12:24:49 2010
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 12:24:49 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] non-bind DNS server
In-Reply-To: <1281970298.7351.10.camel@linux-yu4c.site>
References: <3E718A533F6A47FBA20F89A6F21501DA@homepc>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690230117D72@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<1281970298.7351.10.camel@linux-yu4c.site>
Message-ID: <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46902301185F6@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

The main thing I like that it takes care of for me is being able to create a PTR and an A record on one line in one configuration file.  Many BIND set ups that I have seen are horrendously ugly because the admin might have cleaned up an A record but did not remove the associated PTR.  While the steps needed to remove both records are not difficult or even really tedious, I just see that as one example of djbdns's configuration being a little more simple.  I'm not a djbdns bigot or anti-BIND either; I am just pointing out an alternative to bind that I have used.

Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Adam Tauno Williams
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 10:52 AM
To: mdlug at mdlug.org
Subject: Re: [mdlug] non-bind DNS server

On Mon, 2010-08-16 at 08:49 -0400, Wojtak, Greg wrote:
> I use djbdns all over the place in lieu of bind.  
> He's simplified the configuration while still maintaining all the functionality that I've needed. 

This has always been a claim of djbdns users.

I don't buy it - what about managing an ISC Bind DNS server is
complicated?  What *specifically* does djbdns simplify?

-- 
Adam Tauno Williams <awilliam at whitemice.org> LPIC-1, Novell CLA
<http://www.whitemiceconsulting.com>
OpenGroupware, Cyrus IMAPd, Postfix, OpenLDAP, Samba


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http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From gib at juno.com  Mon Aug 16 12:48:34 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 16:48:34 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  non-bind DNS server
Message-ID: <20100816.124834.9224.0@webmail04.vgs.untd.com>

You know, I've heard people talk about bind for years. But I don't recall many presentations about it.  Anyone?

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Adam Tauno Williams <awilliam at opengroupware.us>
To: mdlug at mdlug.org
Subject: Re: [mdlug] non-bind DNS server
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 10:51:38 -0400

On Mon, 2010-08-16 at 08:49 -0400, Wojtak, Greg wrote:
> I use djbdns all over the place in lieu of bind.  
> He's simplified the configuration while still maintaining all the functionality that I've needed. 

This has always been a claim of djbdns users.

I don't buy it - what about managing an ISC Bind DNS server is
complicated?  What *specifically* does djbdns simplify?

-- 
Adam Tauno Williams <awilliam at whitemice.org> LPIC-1, Novell CLA
<http://www.whitemiceconsulting.com>
OpenGroupware, Cyrus IMAPd, Postfix, OpenLDAP, Samba


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From dobwan at earthlink.net  Mon Aug 16 13:16:42 2010
From: dobwan at earthlink.net (Duane)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 13:16:42 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
Subject: [mdlug] Periodic backup software (dis)recommendations
Message-ID: <7323879.1281979003098.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Found a great article on the IBM Developer Works web site. The last part was extremely educational to me.
Duane
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/aix/library/au-spunix_rsync/index.html?ca=dgr-twtrDoRSYNCdth-AIX

-----Original Message-----
>From: John Wiersba <jrw32982 at yahoo.com>
>Sent: Aug 15, 2010 11:21 PM
>To: mdlug at mdlug.org
>Subject: Re: [mdlug] Periodic backup software (dis)recommendations
>
>I would recommend backing up to an external disk or server, not using CD or 
>DVDs.  There are many reasons to do so, one of which is the convenience of 
>accessing your backup for restoring files or just exploring previous backup 
>points.
>
>Up until recently, I used a variation of rsync called rsnapshot (a perl script 
>which calls rsync).  It keeps snapshots of your backed up data using hard links, 
>so that unchanged files do not take up any extra disk space in subsequent 
>snapshots.  
>
>
>Now, I just use rsync directly with a little shell wrapper, for greater control 
>over my specific requirements.  On modern systems rsync can handle the hard 
>linking itself -- you just need to determine the directory to hard link to 
>(namely, your most recent snapshot directory):
>
>   /usr/bin/rsync -a    \
>      --numeric-ids     \
>      --relative        \
>      --delete          \
>      --delete-excluded \
>      --link-dest=$PREV \
>      $EXCLUDES         \
>      $FROM             \
>      $TO
>
>You can add -x and -H if appropriate.  PREV is the previous snapshot directory, 
>EXCLUDES is a list of exclude options (optional).  FROM is the source 
>directory.  TO is the new snapshot location.
>
>
>      
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Aug 16 21:16:25 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 21:16:25 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Finding something for a cat
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=wutsF5e0Ze+U5NKykpZTwOtU2ROWQVi+k0H8O@mail.gmail.com>

I'm trying to save some typing with some kickstart config files but I
can't get find to work with cat properly.

Directory structure is as follows:
/srv/tftpboot/kickstart/ubuntu/10.10/
/srv/tftpboot/kickstart/ubuntu/10.04/
/srv/tftpboot/kickstart/ubuntu/9.10/
/srv/tftpboot/kickstart/kubuntu/10.10/
/srv/tftpboot/kickstart/kubuntu/10.04/
/srv/tftpboot/kickstart/kubuntu/9.10/
/srv/tftpboot/kickstart/xubuntu/10.10/
/srv/tftpboot/kickstart/xubuntu/10.04/
/srv/tftpboot/kickstart/xubuntu/9.10/

Each has these files:
alternate-i386-desktop.cfg
alternate-amd64-desktop.cfg

I have a text file of "standard" packages I need added with each of
these configurations to form a "standard" configuration:
/srv/tftpboot/kickstart/always_added_packages.txt

The result is just standard-alternate-i386-desktop.cfg or
alternate-amd64-desktop.cfg


From markmont at umich.edu  Mon Aug 16 21:28:09 2010
From: markmont at umich.edu (Mark Montague)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 21:28:09 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Finding something for a cat
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=wutsF5e0Ze+U5NKykpZTwOtU2ROWQVi+k0H8O@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=wutsF5e0Ze+U5NKykpZTwOtU2ROWQVi+k0H8O@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C69E5A9.3090708@umich.edu>

  On August 16, 2010 21:16 , Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com>  wrote:
> find . -type d -execdir cat '{}/alternate-i386-desktop.cfg'
> /srv/tftpboot/kickstart/always_added_packages.txt>{}/standard-alternate-i386-desktop.cfg'
> \;
>
> This results in "bash: {}/standard-alternate-i386-desktop.cfg: No such
> file or directory" as if the redirect char is causing a problem with
> find and it's not expanding the variable correctly.

Redirects are interpreted by the shell, not by find, and find does not 
invoke a shell for the commands it runs via the -exec action, it just 
passes individual arguments you give it to something like the execve() 
system call.  ("man 2 execve" for more information).

You can solve the problem by telling find to invoke a shell for you for 
each command -- the shell will then set up the I/O redirection before 
running the cat command.  Try the following (not tested):

find . -type d -execdir /bin/sh -c 'cat {}/alternate-i386-desktop.cfg /srv/tftpboot/kickstart/always_added_packages.txt>  {}/standard-alternate-i386-desktop.cfg' \;


Note the new position of the single quotes -- the entire cat command, 
including the {} substituions made by find, plus the redirection, are a 
single argument that gets passed to /bin/sh to run.

I hope this helps.

--
   Mark Montague
   mark at catseye.org



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Aug 16 21:33:51 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 21:33:51 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Finding something for a cat
In-Reply-To: <4C69E5A9.3090708@umich.edu>
References: <AANLkTi=wutsF5e0Ze+U5NKykpZTwOtU2ROWQVi+k0H8O@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C69E5A9.3090708@umich.edu>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinMWmNyicgAxHh_iHXr3RtwdM9KZjh0OHtkxTz3@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 9:28 PM, Mark Montague <markmont at umich.edu> wrote:
> Redirects are interpreted by the shell, not by find, and find does not
> invoke a shell for the commands it runs via the -exec action, it just passes
> individual arguments you give it to something like the execve() system call.
> ?("man 2 execve" for more information).
>
> You can solve the problem by telling find to invoke a shell for you for each
> command -- the shell will then set up the I/O redirection before running the
> cat command. ?Try the following (not tested):
>
> find . -type d -execdir /bin/sh -c 'cat {}/alternate-i386-desktop.cfg
> /srv/tftpboot/kickstart/always_added_packages.txt>
> ?{}/standard-alternate-i386-desktop.cfg' \;
>
>
> Note the new position of the single quotes -- the entire cat command,
> including the {} substituions made by find, plus the redirection, are a
> single argument that gets passed to /bin/sh to run.
>

I had a feeling that was the problem.  I was messing around with bash
to get the same thing with the eval command.  Looks like I had the
wrong one.  It works now.  Thanks.


From otakurider at gmail.com  Tue Aug 17 08:41:40 2010
From: otakurider at gmail.com (-)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 08:41:40 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Periodic backup software (dis)recommendations
In-Reply-To: <4C685FFE.8000701@bellsouth.net>
References: <4C685FFE.8000701@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinB=OGt6aR9jVuAkdrfLSf+SC9-FWNhAnAm9Q77@mail.gmail.com>

First question is what is your strategy for bare metal restore?  Check out
redobackup it allows for bare-metal restore, even clonezilla can be a
option.  Yes I know you can reinstall the OS then install a backup software
but, pop the restore CD (or cloned spare HDD) in take a book 10min break
then your back to a clean machine with your data backup software installed
and scripts configured for restore.  For the data restore I have good luck
with rsync  and Amanda from a external HDD.  I try to do back up the HDD in
three (three places) with one of the places off site.   I think HDD being
faster then tape is a better way to go.

Pat

-- "its never a true backup until its in three places" -



On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Dr. Robert Meier <
list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net> wrote:

> Data Specialists,
>
> I'm configuring a new computer, and now is the time to consider
> backup strategy.
>
> What tools and/or features do you (dis)recommend?
>
>
>
> In the past, I used cprcdr because of the following features.
>   o scriptable map of live namespace to cd
>   o ls -R index of each cd retained and searchable in live space
>
> TIA,
> --
> Bob
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From jrw32982 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 17 09:06:10 2010
From: jrw32982 at yahoo.com (John Wiersba)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 06:06:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Finding something for a cat
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5.1282048912.4813.mdlug@mdlug.org>
References: <mailman.5.1282048912.4813.mdlug@mdlug.org>
Message-ID: <859660.61239.qm@web52708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Why not just simplify things by avoiding -exec in find?  I almost always find 
that I can do what I want with a simple shell loop like the following.  It's so 
much easier to read than all the escaping and quoting you need in order to embed 
the command you need as an argument to find.

find . -type d |
while read dir ;do
   # Do whatever you want with each $dir
done


      

From jbroughton at twmi.rr.com  Tue Aug 17 09:21:18 2010
From: jbroughton at twmi.rr.com (Jim Broughton)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 09:21:18 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] non-bind DNS server
In-Reply-To: <20100816.124834.9224.0@webmail04.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20100816.124834.9224.0@webmail04.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <4C6A8CCE.6060604@twmi.rr.com>

Thats because Bind is seriously over complex for what it does.
I've been trying for years to wrap my brain around the Bind
DNS system and it still eludes me. I can write fairly complex
iptables firewalls while sleep walking but Bind throws me for a loop.
I have looked at but not used djbdns and it does seem a little less
complex than Bind.

Jim



gib at juno.com wrote:
> You know, I've heard people talk about bind for years. But I don't recall many presentations about it.  Anyone?
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: Adam Tauno Williams <awilliam at opengroupware.us>
> To: mdlug at mdlug.org
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] non-bind DNS server
> Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 10:51:38 -0400
>
> On Mon, 2010-08-16 at 08:49 -0400, Wojtak, Greg wrote:
>   
>> I use djbdns all over the place in lieu of bind.  
>> He's simplified the configuration while still maintaining all the functionality that I've needed. 
>>     
>
> This has always been a claim of djbdns users.
>
> I don't buy it - what about managing an ISC Bind DNS server is
> complicated?  What *specifically* does djbdns simplify?
>
>   



From danno at umich.edu  Tue Aug 17 10:37:44 2010
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 10:37:44 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Periodic backup software (dis)recommendations
In-Reply-To: <4C685FFE.8000701@bellsouth.net>
References: <4C685FFE.8000701@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <20100817143744.GA17767@maniac.deathstar.org>

On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 05:45:34PM -0400, Dr. Robert Meier wrote:
> I'm configuring a new computer, and now is the time to consider
> backup strategy.

Something I forgot to mention in my previous reply:

DO TEST RESTORES.

REGULARLY.

backups are easy.  RESTORES ARE HARD.

Test that every client can restore, or be damn sure that they are
so alike as for it to be a waste of time.  

a couple anecdotes from hard experience:

1) I managed a umich department that used a lot of NeXT workstations.
we backed them up with rdump to a tape drive on a central machine.
worked great, yada yada.

Somewhere along the line NeXT stopped making hardware and released
its OS for x86 machines.  A faculty member bought a PC preloaded
with nextstep and i added it to backups.  along we went, no problems.

He had a total disk failure.  we went to restore.  Whoops, dump
dumped raw filesystem data.  The filesystem was byte-order dependent.
The backup server was a 68030; the client an i486.  I have never
gone to figure out exacttly what went wrong, but there was data on
the tape from this box, just as had been logged.  The other data
on the tape, from 68k clients, restored fine, either locally on the
server or remotely on the client with rrestore.  Unfortunately, the
data on the tape from the i486 machine was not readable either
locally on the server (no big surprise, byte-order wrong), OR on
the client with rrestore.

Oops.

On the plus side, Ontrack got all his data back and it only cost
$1-2000 (1996 dollars, i don't recall exactly).  Given that it was
a year of his life, it was a bargain.


2) Another umich department.  This one happened to have a Sun.

I had set up backups to their local tape drive, and tested restores,
no problems.

I had a summer intern whose job it was to do local tech support
(which he did fine) and swap the tapes so backups occurred
regularly.  

At the end of the summer, both the intern and I left the U for
greener pastures.  

Soon after, I got a call from a former colleague who was trying to
do a restore.  I don't know exaclty what went wrong but the backups
were no good.

It was my fault, not the intern's.  I shouldn't have left this
important task to him with no supervision/verification it was getting
done right.



In each case, if i had properly tested restores, data loss would have
been prevented.


I hope my sad experience helps some of you.

danno


From radkins at impelind.com  Tue Aug 17 12:00:24 2010
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins II)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 12:00:24 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Backup Solutions
Message-ID: <442C847C722E41458448441239CCF7F2@Delta7>

I would like to review something that is a little more "automatic" than what
I am using right now.
 
What am I using right now? Custom scripts to copy data from the live server
to the back-up external Hard Drives, manually confirming the backups and
swapping out the external drives every couple of days.
 
What I would like to see/use is a simple GUI (For those times when I am on
vacation so that I can put the task into the hands of a "skilled" user.)
that can show what has been backed up, what needs to be backed up and may
have features for things like incremental backups and also some of kind of
basic version control so that if certain files that are updated daily
suddenly become irrevocably corrupt, there will be a copy at least 24 hours
old that can be restored.
 
Is there anything that features any of the above currently available either
OSS or commercially available for Linux? 


-- 

Regards, 
Rob



From gib at juno.com  Wed Aug 18 09:20:15 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 13:20:15 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] Mainstream News Media Article - Avoid Microsoft Office Cost
Message-ID: <20100818.092015.29886.0@webmail24.vgs.untd.com>

Just saw this and I thought it was interesting:
http://www.mainstreet.com/article/smart-spending/technology/5-ways-avoid-computer-sticker-shock-0?cm_ven=msnetzero

. . . there are ways to meet your word processing and spreadsheet needs without spending a dime. OpenOffice is a free, open-source office suite that includes a word processor, a spreadsheet maker and a presentation tool similar to PowerPoint.
____________________________________________________________
2010 Credit Scores
Click to View Your 2010 Credit Scores Now! All 3 Scores FREE !
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From danno at umich.edu  Wed Aug 18 09:56:08 2010
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 09:56:08 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Backup Solutions
In-Reply-To: <442C847C722E41458448441239CCF7F2@Delta7>
References: <442C847C722E41458448441239CCF7F2@Delta7>
Message-ID: <20100818135608.GA41117@maniac.deathstar.org>

definitely take a look at backuppc.

Note that it is basically a client/server sort of thing, rather than
a "back up a single host to an external drive" sort of thing, although
i think with the right configuration you could make it work that way.

On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 12:00:24PM -0400, Robert Adkins II wrote:
> I would like to review something that is a little more "automatic" than what
> I am using right now.
>  
> What am I using right now? Custom scripts to copy data from the live server
> to the back-up external Hard Drives, manually confirming the backups and
> swapping out the external drives every couple of days.
>  
> What I would like to see/use is a simple GUI (For those times when I am on
> vacation so that I can put the task into the hands of a "skilled" user.)
> that can show what has been backed up, what needs to be backed up and may
> have features for things like incremental backups and also some of kind of
> basic version control so that if certain files that are updated daily
> suddenly become irrevocably corrupt, there will be a copy at least 24 hours
> old that can be restored.
>  
> Is there anything that features any of the above currently available either
> OSS or commercially available for Linux? 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Regards, 
> Rob
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 18 13:30:28 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 10:30:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Microsoft Monopoly
Message-ID: <54305.24271.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

(OT; But it is on topic because Linux resources are being replaced by windows)
?
Recently I was informed that a Linux server is being replaced by a windows 2008 
server.? I started to think about ?Microsoft Monopoly? case. MS must have a very 
good legal team. 

?
But I still think that Microsoft is leveraging to move Linux out. I hate it when 
good performing resources are replaced by Windows Servers, ?Because it is easier 
to support.? If Microsoft were not ?anti-trust? the applications division would 
have ported MS Office to Linux. 

?
I buy and use MS products, sure but sometimes it is because I have to. Not 
because it is my first choice. MS leaves me with no other choices.? And that is 
why I feel MS is ?anti-trust.?
?
?
David C. Lane 


      

From jaketodd422 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 18 18:31:40 2010
From: jaketodd422 at gmail.com (Jacob Todd)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 18:31:40 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Microsoft Monopoly
In-Reply-To: <54305.24271.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <54305.24271.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20100818223140.GA14371@zoidberg.hsd1.mi.comcast.net>

On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 10:30:28AM -0700, David Lane wrote:
> (OT; But it is on topic because Linux resources are being replaced by windows)
> ?
> Recently I was informed that a Linux server is being replaced by a windows 2008 
> server.? I started to think about ?Microsoft Monopoly? case. MS must have a very 
> good legal team. 
So because someone choose to use Win2000 instead of Linux on a server, Microsoft
has a monopoly? There seems to be a flaw in your reasoning.

> But I still think that Microsoft is leveraging to move Linux out. I hate it when 
> good performing resources are replaced by Windows Servers, ?Because it is easier 
> to support.? If Microsoft were not ?anti-trust? the applications division would 
> have ported MS Office to Linux. 
This doesn't really make sense. Of course Microsoft is going to try to get people
to start using Windows server over Linux, Linux is one of Microsofts biggest
competetors in server environments. I don't understand the statement about
``anti-trust.'' It's a very ambiguous term.
?
> I buy and use MS products, sure but sometimes it is because I have to. Not 
> because it is my first choice. MS leaves me with no other choices.? And that is 
> why I feel MS is ?anti-trust.?
Microsoft does leave you with other choices, there's OO.o, LaTeX, troff, abiword,
kde's office software, et cetera. If there's something that these other systems
can't provide because Microsoft threatened to enforce their patents on the
authors, that is the fault of the State for providing monopolies in the first
place.
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From petertheplumber at att.net  Wed Aug 18 19:55:08 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 19:55:08 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Backup Solutions
In-Reply-To: <442C847C722E41458448441239CCF7F2@Delta7>
References: <442C847C722E41458448441239CCF7F2@Delta7>
Message-ID: <1282175708.19176.5.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

On Tue, 2010-08-17 at 12:00 -0400, Robert Adkins II wrote:
> I would like to review something that is a little more "automatic" than what
> I am using right now.
>  
> What am I using right now? Custom scripts to copy data from the live server
> to the back-up external Hard Drives, manually confirming the backups and
> swapping out the external drives every couple of days.
>  
> What I would like to see/use is a simple GUI (For those times when I am on
> vacation so that I can put the task into the hands of a "skilled" user.)
> that can show what has been backed up, what needs to be backed up and may
> have features for things like incremental backups and also some of kind of
> basic version control so that if certain files that are updated daily
> suddenly become irrevocably corrupt, there will be a copy at least 24 hours
> old that can be restored.
>  
> Is there anything that features any of the above currently available either
> OSS or commercially available for Linux? 
> 
> 
Back In Time is very simple to use. I use it to back up to external hard
drives. I believe it will do what you want.
<http://backintime.le-web.org/>
-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber



From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 18 20:26:23 2010
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 20:26:23 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Microsoft Monopoly
In-Reply-To: <54305.24271.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <54305.24271.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikS3tAMnvxpttREq_Ac0hwLXcUMrRmy_WCkywm8@mail.gmail.com>

--- David Lane wrote:

> Recently I was informed that a Linux server is being replaced by a windows 2008
> server.? I started to think about ?Microsoft Monopoly? case. MS must have a very
> good legal team.

The problem is not the "monopoly", it's the flawed perception that,
somehow, Windows severs are easier/cheaper/better than *nix servers.
The fact is that Internet-facing Windows servers are MUCH more
vulnerable to attack than Linux/BSD/Mac-based servers.  I don't have
the exact statistics in front of me, but from what I have seen, WAMP
servers (Windows/Apache/MySQL/PHP) are more vulnerable than LAMP
servers, with the Win/IIS server stack the most vulnerable of all to
attack.  This means that Windows servers cost users TWICE (or
more)--once for the OS, once for the added security and (to a high
probability) even more to clean up the mess after a successful attack;
not to mention the down time needed to reboot the system(s) after the
endless cycle of updates (that often cause more problems than they
solve).

You may find more about this here:
<http://uptime.netcraft.com/ex/pass/pass-faq.html>

~~ Michael Rudas
?? My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
?? My software blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com
?? My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/protop
?? http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey


From radkins at impelind.com  Thu Aug 19 10:55:19 2010
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins II)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 10:55:19 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Microsoft Monopoly
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikS3tAMnvxpttREq_Ac0hwLXcUMrRmy_WCkywm8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54305.24271.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<AANLkTikS3tAMnvxpttREq_Ac0hwLXcUMrRmy_WCkywm8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FB6C9534A0E943FA8A6E2D6861EDBAD3@Delta7>

> 
> --- David Lane wrote:
> 
> > Recently I was informed that a Linux server is being replaced by a 
> > windows 2008 server.? I started to think about ?Microsoft Monopoly? 
> > case. MS must have a very good legal team.
> 
> The problem is not the "monopoly", it's the flawed perception 
> that, somehow, Windows severs are easier/cheaper/better than 
> *nix servers.
> The fact is that Internet-facing Windows servers are MUCH 
> more vulnerable to attack than Linux/BSD/Mac-based servers.  
> I don't have the exact statistics in front of me, but from 
> what I have seen, WAMP servers (Windows/Apache/MySQL/PHP) are 
> more vulnerable than LAMP servers, with the Win/IIS server 
> stack the most vulnerable of all to attack.  This means that 
> Windows servers cost users TWICE (or more)--once for the OS, 
> once for the added security and (to a high
> probability) even more to clean up the mess after a 
> successful attack; not to mention the down time needed to 
> reboot the system(s) after the endless cycle of updates (that 
> often cause more problems than they solve).
> 
> You may find more about this here:
> <http://uptime.netcraft.com/ex/pass/pass-faq.html>
> 
> ~~ Michael Rudas
> ?? My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
> ?? My software blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com
> ?? My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/protop
> ?? http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey


  When it is said that it is "easier" to Administer a Windows Server than a
Linux server, what they really mean is that there are more people out in the
wilds of the job market that are "knowledgable" about Administrating Windows
than Linux systems. It has absolutely nothing to do with the actual
configuration or maintaining of the resulting systems.

  Modern Linux distros are in many ways as easy or easier to setup and
configure than comparable duty Windows servers/systems.

  -Rob



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Thu Aug 19 14:49:36 2010
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 14:49:36 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Microsoft Monopoly
In-Reply-To: <FB6C9534A0E943FA8A6E2D6861EDBAD3@Delta7>
References: <54305.24271.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com><AANLkTikS3tAMnvxpttREq_Ac0hwLXcUMrRmy_WCkywm8@mail.gmail.com>
	<FB6C9534A0E943FA8A6E2D6861EDBAD3@Delta7>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E037054ABAE4@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Robert Adkins II

>   When it is said that it is "easier" to Administer a Windows Server
than a
> Linux server, what they really mean is that there are more people out
in the
> wilds of the job market that are "knowledgable" about Administrating
Windows
> than Linux systems. It has absolutely nothing to do with the actual
> configuration or maintaining of the resulting systems.

 This reminded me of my .sig below:

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                     (313) 227-2317

 "Microsoft products are easy to administer. Anyone can do it!
 Even if you don't want them to..." - Jim Richardson, in COLA

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.



From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 19 11:22:56 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 08:22:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Microsoft Monopoly
In-Reply-To: <20100818223140.GA14371@zoidberg.hsd1.mi.comcast.net>
References: <54305.24271.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20100818223140.GA14371@zoidberg.hsd1.mi.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <360063.14479.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Oh, and Microsoft plays NICE?
?
I will agree that?MS's activities might not be "Anti-trust," but there close. 
One reason that there was an actual "Anti-trust" law suit was because they were 
close to forcing or "Leveraging" their own resources. And the thought of 
breaking them up would not have been a bad thing. Because if the applications 
division 

?
I would like to NOT have Windows in my home. But I have to use Visio and a few 
other windows based applications. I know if MS did port a few applications to 
Linux there would be those that will actually pay money for the applications.
?
So you are a Linux shop and you want to use Oracle that is no problem, same with 
UNIX, AIX, BSD and of course Windows. 

?
But lets say some yahoo wants MSSQL you cant just load it on one of your "UNIX" 
servers. (I work in education and there are a lot of applications that IT is 
forced to support because the ?That? platform is the only platform that the 
application is delivered.) So NOW you have to buy a new Windows server just for 
that application. 

?
I have seen many Unix shops become Windows shops in the past 6 years.? Microsoft 
is leveraging and my question is how much of it is in the spirit of competition. 
If there was not an AMD then Intel's prices would not be reasonable or "Cost 
effective". ?Without the competition that AMD offers, your $400 build would be 
800 or even 1200. With Microsoft your $400 build would be $600, oh you need an 
office product 749. ?
?
Lets think back, in the 90?s UNIX was the server environment, but the Microsoft 
resource that help make a dent in the server game was MS Visual Studio (eWeek). 
The cost UNIX programmers was way more than windows programmers. The bean 
counter pointed to the overall cost of a windows programmer in compared to a 
UNIX programmer.? Even though the windows applications were buggy the 
applications went forward. Leveraging MS resources was a good business strategy. 
?That is one reason that MS got there, But their size could be there issue.
?
BUT in ?Anti-trust? there is also a mass issue. And the choice to go with 
Microsoft is it?s mass, so that is what I?m hearing.? The MASS of Microsoft is 
influencing IT choices, not performance or security. 

?
Even though we know Linux out performs Windows in raw performance and security 
IT tech leaders are making a windows choice, and more than a few point to their 
size. Does anybody else see that trend?
?
David C. Lane 



________________________________
From: Jacob Todd <jaketodd422 at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Wed, August 18, 2010 6:31:40 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] OT: Microsoft Monopoly

On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 10:30:28AM -0700, David Lane wrote:
> (OT; But it is on topic because Linux resources are being replaced by windows)
> ?
> Recently I was informed that a Linux server is being replaced by a windows 2008 
>
> server.? I started to think about ?Microsoft Monopoly? case. MS must have a 
>very 
>
> good legal team. 
So because someone choose to use Win2000 instead of Linux on a server, Microsoft
has a monopoly? There seems to be a flaw in your reasoning.

> But I still think that Microsoft is leveraging to move Linux out. I hate it 
>when 
>
> good performing resources are replaced by Windows Servers, ?Because it is 
>easier 
>
> to support.? If Microsoft were not ?anti-trust? the applications division would 
>
> have ported MS Office to Linux. 
This doesn't really make sense. Of course Microsoft is going to try to get 
people
to start using Windows server over Linux, Linux is one of Microsofts biggest
competetors in server environments. I don't understand the statement about
``anti-trust.'' It's a very ambiguous term.
?
> I buy and use MS products, sure but sometimes it is because I have to. Not 
> because it is my first choice. MS leaves me with no other choices.? And that is 
>
> why I feel MS is ?anti-trust.?
Microsoft does leave you with other choices, there's OO.o, LaTeX, troff, 
abiword,
kde's office software, et cetera. If there's something that these other systems
can't provide because Microsoft threatened to enforce their patents on the
authors, that is the fault of the State for providing monopolies in the first
place.



      

From Stan at mcomputersolutions.com  Thu Aug 19 20:09:32 2010
From: Stan at mcomputersolutions.com (Stan Green)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 20:09:32 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Grub error 17
Message-ID: <201008192009.32702.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>

I moved my wife's computer form SUSE 11 to Debian Lenny. I took a minimal 
install approach and added what she needed. I had it almost done, just needed 
to get USB working for a normal user, as I could only mount one as root. (This 
is not the primary issue now! I'll come back to that later.)

So, I was messing around with dbus and hal configuration. Nothing was working so 
I put almost everything back the way it was (I missed a policy section in 
hal.conf that gave her user ID the same rights  as root.)  I then rebooted, but 
I forgot to take the USB flash drive out of the port.

So up come GRUB error 17. My web searching turned up that error 17 is: "This 
error is returned if the partition requested exists, but the filesystem type 
cannot be recognized by GRUB. "  I do not even get to the GRUB menu. After 
spending hours on line trying everthing I can find, I am pulling my (virtual) 
hair out. Using Knoppix, I have run GRUB setup on the first hardrive, I have 
done the fidisk to fix the partation table. I have run fsck on both the boot 
partition and the root partation.  Nothing has worked.

So, could I have messed up something with dbus or hal that would keep the 
machine from booting? Could leaving the USB drive in caused some change?

Is there anything else that might be keeping GRUB from recognizing the file 
system?

Thanks,
Stan


From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Fri Aug 20 00:55:18 2010
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Dr. Robert Meier)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 00:55:18 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Grub error 17
In-Reply-To: <201008192009.32702.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
References: <201008192009.32702.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <4C6E0AB6.4090101@bellsouth.net>

Stan,

I regret that I don't have a complete answer handy,
but I hope the following will help.

For further details, consider reading the lengthy exchange at
    http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=120802

I suspect, initrd, the ram disk boot loader[1],
was assembled at grub-install time
with a map of devices different from that at boot time.

<example>
grub was installed on a hard disk in one host,
where directing the bios to download from hd1
loaded the kernel from the hard disk,
and then the hard disk was placed in a different host,
where directing the bios to download from hd1
failed to load the kernel from the cd drive.
</example>

In your case I suspect the usb drive was installed when you
ran grub-install(?) to "setup grub" and its presence
altered the map of bios devices to unix devices
(e.g. hd0 vs hd1 mapped to /dev/hda vs /dev/usb0),
so that it differed from that reported by the bios
during a later boot.  As I would expect the bios
to map all non-removable devices exclusively or
before any removable devices, the only way I
can imagine your problem arising,
requires time-overlapping installation and removal
of an atapi (ide-scsi) or other such transient
device.



<hint>
If my assumptions are correct,
the deterministic solution is to boot an
appropriate[2] rescue system
(e.g. SuSE Rescue Disk) and "boot from hard disk",
thus bypassing the hard disk mbr and initrd.
You can then run grub-install with the correct
device map.
</hint>

<hint>
If my assumptions are correct,
a more practical approach is to repeatedly
   1. boot a rescue system
   2. mount the hard disk, and edit /boot/boot/device.map on hard disk
   3. shut down rescue system and remove live cd
   4. attempt to boot from hard disk (without rescue system)
   5. repeat steps 1-4 until 4 is successful
In step 2 of each repetition, try a different pairing of
   (hd0), (hd1), (hd2), ...
and
   /dev/hda, /dev/hdb, ...
I would expect a successful boot in less than 7 attempts.
(I would expect (hd0) /dev/hda to be most probable.)
</hint>



Once you have a successful build, I suggest that you
use grub to reinstall cleanly so that this vexing
problem does not bite again in future updates.



[1] initrd is a small operating system image used to load a kernel
that cannot be loaded by bios (usually too large or resident on
a device not supported by bios).

[2] Most simpler "rescue disk"s are merely and adjunct
to an installation, probably reboot via bios,
and would not be appropriate.  A better rescue disk will let
you select the bootable partition, act as a "chain loader",
and skip the bios "boot loader".



On 08/19/10 20:09, Stan Green wrote:
> I moved my wife's computer form SUSE 11 to Debian Lenny. I took a minimal
> install approach and added what she needed. I had it almost done, just needed
> to get USB working for a normal user, as I could only mount one as root. (This
> is not the primary issue now! I'll come back to that later.)
>
> So, I was messing around with dbus and hal configuration. Nothing was working so
> I put almost everything back the way it was (I missed a policy section in
> hal.conf that gave her user ID the same rights  as root.)  I then rebooted, but
> I forgot to take the USB flash drive out of the port.
>
> So up come GRUB error 17. My web searching turned up that error 17 is: "This
> error is returned if the partition requested exists, but the filesystem type
> cannot be recognized by GRUB. "  I do not even get to the GRUB menu. After
> spending hours on line trying everthing I can find, I am pulling my (virtual)
> hair out. Using Knoppix, I have run GRUB setup on the first hardrive, I have
> done the fidisk to fix the partation table. I have run fsck on both the boot
> partition and the root partation.  Nothing has worked.
>
> So, could I have messed up something with dbus or hal that would keep the
> machine from booting? Could leaving the USB drive in caused some change?

hal.  Yes, but AFAIK, another "mounted device removal" was required,
e.g. running kernel on atapi mounted partition.

> Is there anything else that might be keeping GRUB from recognizing the file
> system?

A purely coincidental disk corruption of the boot image
could have the same symptoms,
but fsck and grub setup should have corrected the corruption.

Hopefully helpful,
--
Bob


From petertheplumber at att.net  Fri Aug 20 07:17:59 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 07:17:59 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Microsoft Monopoly
In-Reply-To: <FB6C9534A0E943FA8A6E2D6861EDBAD3@Delta7>
References: <54305.24271.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<AANLkTikS3tAMnvxpttREq_Ac0hwLXcUMrRmy_WCkywm8@mail.gmail.com>
	<FB6C9534A0E943FA8A6E2D6861EDBAD3@Delta7>
Message-ID: <1282303079.19176.19.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

On Thu, 2010-08-19 at 10:55 -0400, Robert Adkins II wrote:
> > 
> > --- David Lane wrote:
> > 
> > > Recently I was informed that a Linux server is being replaced by a 
> > > windows 2008 server.  I started to think about ?Microsoft Monopoly? 
> > > case. MS must have a very good legal team.
> > 
> > The problem is not the "monopoly", it's the flawed perception 
> > that, somehow, Windows severs are easier/cheaper/better than 
> > *nix servers.
> > The fact is that Internet-facing Windows servers are MUCH 
> > more vulnerable to attack than Linux/BSD/Mac-based servers.  
> > I don't have the exact statistics in front of me, but from 
> > what I have seen, WAMP servers (Windows/Apache/MySQL/PHP) are 
> > more vulnerable than LAMP servers, with the Win/IIS server 
> > stack the most vulnerable of all to attack.  This means that 
> > Windows servers cost users TWICE (or more)--once for the OS, 
> > once for the added security and (to a high
> > probability) even more to clean up the mess after a 
> > successful attack; not to mention the down time needed to 
> > reboot the system(s) after the endless cycle of updates (that 
> > often cause more problems than they solve).
> > 
> > You may find more about this here:
> > <http://uptime.netcraft.com/ex/pass/pass-faq.html>
> > 
> > ~~ Michael Rudas
> >    My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
> >    My software blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com
> >    My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/protop
> >    http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey
> 
> 
>   When it is said that it is "easier" to Administer a Windows Server than a
> Linux server, what they really mean is that there are more people out in the
> wilds of the job market that are "knowledgable" about Administrating Windows
> than Linux systems. It has absolutely nothing to do with the actual
> configuration or maintaining of the resulting systems.
> 
>   Modern Linux distros are in many ways as easy or easier to setup and
> configure than comparable duty Windows servers/systems.
> 
>   -Rob

	Easier is almost never better. What Rob says about about Windows vs
*nix people can be said about almost any trade/occupation. For example
handyman vs licensed plumber. I don't get it as much anymore; because I
do mostly commercial/industrial work; but I can still hear "I can get
that at xxxxx for much less". Yes, but can you install and maintain it
correctly for a long and troublefree life? Do you want it to fail at a
critical time? See Murphys Law.
-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber



From awilliam at opengroupware.us  Fri Aug 20 08:27:05 2010
From: awilliam at opengroupware.us (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 08:27:05 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Microsoft Monopoly
In-Reply-To: <1282303079.19176.19.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
References: <54305.24271.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<AANLkTikS3tAMnvxpttREq_Ac0hwLXcUMrRmy_WCkywm8@mail.gmail.com>
	<FB6C9534A0E943FA8A6E2D6861EDBAD3@Delta7>
	<1282303079.19176.19.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <1282307225.4176.18.camel@linux-yu4c.site>

On Fri, 2010-08-20 at 07:17 -0400, Peter Bart wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-08-19 at 10:55 -0400, Robert Adkins II wrote:
> > > > Recently I was informed that a Linux server is being replaced by a 
> > > > windows 2008 server.  I started to think about ?Microsoft Monopoly? 
> > > > case. MS must have a very good legal team.
> > > The problem is not the "monopoly", it's the flawed perception 
> > > that, somehow, Windows severs are easier/cheaper/better than 
> > > *nix servers.

There are two problems with these types of discussions:

(a) what matters here is the *legal* definition of "monopoly".  Ones'
opinion about what constitutes a monopoly just don't matter.

(b) speaking of things as "better" is so vague as to be meaningless.

And lets compare setting up a LINUX host as a DC vs. setting up an SBS
instance as a DC?  Clearly setting up the LINUX host is, by any sane
definition, "harder".

> > > The fact is that Internet-facing Windows servers are MUCH 
> > > more vulnerable to attack than Linux/BSD/Mac-based servers.  
> > > I don't have the exact statistics in front of me, but from 
> > > what I have seen, WAMP servers (Windows/Apache/MySQL/PHP) are 
> > > more vulnerable than LAMP servers, with the Win/IIS server 
> > > stack the most vulnerable of all to attack.
> > When it is said that it is "easier" to Administer a Windows Server than a
> > Linux server, what they really mean is that there are more people out in the

IMO, what it really means is they-are-right.  I'm an Open Source
advocate and a UNIX/LINUX admin for ~15 years.  And I have no problem
admitting this in many regards.  The Open Source communities' insane [or
just lazy] addiction to the-txt-config-file is a serious hold-up for
LINUX deployment;  it means all admin tools, to the point that they even
exist, essentially *suck* and will eventually trash your config [acting
as anti-admin tools].  Fortunately with XML configuration, XDG, D-Bus,
etc... we are *finally* starting to move beyond the
idiot-who-thinks-sysadmin-is-proficiency-in-vi.

<rant>
Heck, even adding a CA certificate to a LINUX host's openssl [or is it
gnutls?] configuration is a stupidly arcane exercise.  So most LINUX
hosts I find [yes *most*] communicate either in-the-clear or with
certificate verification disabled.  All the while their "administrators"
jabber on about how much more secure LINUX is that Windows.  And the
response to the criticism is usually that interanet traffic is trusted.
Wow! [But do you need 802.1x authentication just to plug any laptop into
a switch?  Ha, no, you'll just get an address from DHCP.  Oh, right,
802.1x would require a working PKI configuration.... back to square
one].
</rant>

> > wilds of the job market that are "knowledgable" about Administrating Windows
> > than Linux systems. It has absolutely nothing to do with the actual
> > configuration or maintaining of the resulting systems.
> >   Modenn Linux distros are in many ways as easy or easier to setup and
> > configure than comparable duty Windows servers/systems.

And implied in the statement "in many ways as easy or easier" is the
statement "in many other ways as hard or harder".  Inherently these
kinds of statements negate themselves - they have no meaning, IMO.

> Easier is almost never better. What Rob says about about Windows vs
> *nix people can be said about almost any trade/occupation. For example
> handyman vs licensed plumber. I don't get it as much anymore; because I
> do mostly commercial/industrial work; but I can still hear "I can get
> that at xxxxx for much less". Yes, but can you install and maintain it
> correctly for a long and troublefree life?

TCO vs. what-it-costs-me-now; and age old conundrum.
-- 
Adam Tauno Williams <awilliam at whitemice.org> LPIC-1, Novell CLA
<http://www.whitemiceconsulting.com>
OpenGroupware, Cyrus IMAPd, Postfix, OpenLDAP, Samba



From billings at negate.org  Fri Aug 20 09:06:34 2010
From: billings at negate.org (Jonathan Billings)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 09:06:34 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Microsoft Monopoly
In-Reply-To: <1282307225.4176.18.camel@linux-yu4c.site>
References: <54305.24271.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<AANLkTikS3tAMnvxpttREq_Ac0hwLXcUMrRmy_WCkywm8@mail.gmail.com>
	<FB6C9534A0E943FA8A6E2D6861EDBAD3@Delta7>
	<1282303079.19176.19.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
	<1282307225.4176.18.camel@linux-yu4c.site>
Message-ID: <20100820130633.GC25863@caen-gx755.engin.umich.edu>

On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 08:27:05AM -0400, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> IMO, what it really means is they-are-right.  I'm an Open Source
> advocate and a UNIX/LINUX admin for ~15 years.  And I have no problem
> admitting this in many regards.  The Open Source communities' insane [or
> just lazy] addiction to the-txt-config-file is a serious hold-up for
> LINUX deployment;  it means all admin tools, to the point that they even
> exist, essentially *suck* and will eventually trash your config [acting
> as anti-admin tools].  Fortunately with XML configuration, XDG, D-Bus,
> etc... we are *finally* starting to move beyond the
> idiot-who-thinks-sysadmin-is-proficiency-in-vi.

Actually, I'm not sure that's a huge step in the right direction.
The windows registry shouldn't be held up as an example of the proper
way to centralize configuration.  At least with plain text, you can
put the configuration into proper version control and use a
configuration management tool to manage things centrally.

Perhaps I have "...[t]he Open Source communities' insane [or just
lazy] addiction to the-txt-config-file", but I find it easier to
manage centrally using current tools.  I don't believe it's insane or
lazy, that just comes off as elitist.  It's just the product of the
UNIX community it was spawned from.

I agree that it is annoying that every tool has it's own
domain-specific language (you hear me, sendmail?), but I'm not won
over by the Windows Registry.

> <rant>
> Heck, even adding a CA certificate to a LINUX host's openssl [or is it
> gnutls?] configuration is a stupidly arcane exercise.  So most LINUX
> hosts I find [yes *most*] communicate either in-the-clear or with
> certificate verification disabled.  All the while their "administrators"
> jabber on about how much more secure LINUX is that Windows.  And the
> response to the criticism is usually that interanet traffic is trusted.
> Wow! [But do you need 802.1x authentication just to plug any laptop into
> a switch?  Ha, no, you'll just get an address from DHCP.  Oh, right,
> 802.1x would require a working PKI configuration.... back to square
> one].
> </rant>

I'm annoyed that it's difficult to add a CA to the OS and make it work
universally.  It probably requires more of those insane, lazy text
files. 

> > > wilds of the job market that are "knowledgable" about Administrating Windows
> > > than Linux systems. It has absolutely nothing to do with the actual
> > > configuration or maintaining of the resulting systems.
> > >   Modenn Linux distros are in many ways as easy or easier to setup and
> > > configure than comparable duty Windows servers/systems.
> 
> And implied in the statement "in many ways as easy or easier" is the
> statement "in many other ways as hard or harder".  Inherently these
> kinds of statements negate themselves - they have no meaning, IMO.

In many ways, your comments make sense.

-- 
Jonathan Billings <billings at negate.org>


From awilliam at opengroupware.us  Fri Aug 20 09:26:40 2010
From: awilliam at opengroupware.us (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 09:26:40 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Microsoft Monopoly
In-Reply-To: <20100820130633.GC25863@caen-gx755.engin.umich.edu>
References: <54305.24271.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<AANLkTikS3tAMnvxpttREq_Ac0hwLXcUMrRmy_WCkywm8@mail.gmail.com>
	<FB6C9534A0E943FA8A6E2D6861EDBAD3@Delta7>
	<1282303079.19176.19.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
	<1282307225.4176.18.camel@linux-yu4c.site>
	<20100820130633.GC25863@caen-gx755.engin.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <1282310800.4176.30.camel@linux-yu4c.site>

On Fri, 2010-08-20 at 09:06 -0400, Jonathan Billings wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 08:27:05AM -0400, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> > IMO, what it really means is they-are-right.  I'm an Open Source
> > advocate and a UNIX/LINUX admin for ~15 years.  And I have no problem
> > admitting this in many regards.  The Open Source communities' insane [or
> > just lazy] addiction to the-txt-config-file is a serious hold-up for
> > LINUX deployment;  it means all admin tools, to the point that they even
> > exist, essentially *suck* and will eventually trash your config [acting
> > as anti-admin tools].  Fortunately with XML configuration, XDG, D-Bus,
> > etc... we are *finally* starting to move beyond the
> > idiot-who-thinks-sysadmin-is-proficiency-in-vi.
> Actually, I'm not sure that's a huge step in the right direction.
> The windows registry shouldn't be held up as an example of the proper
> way to centralize configuration.

This is arguing an implementation against the concept.  [And I haven't
seen a trashed windows registry in a long time anyway].  The mature
concept is Active Directory. 

>   At least with plain text, you can
> put the configuration into proper version control and use a
> configuration management tool to manage things centrally.

Sure, *you* can.  But that's just the point.  Everyone roll-your-own
solution to system administration isn't good system administration.  You
get hit by a bus.... and pity the poor fool who has to come in to manage
your systems.

> Perhaps I have "...[t]he Open Source communities' insane [or just
> lazy] addiction to the-txt-config-file", but I find it easier to
> manage centrally using current tools.  I don't believe it's insane or
> lazy, that just comes off as elitist. 

Ok, I'm elitist.  I don't have any problem with that.

> It's just the product of the UNIX community it was spawned from.
> I agree that it is annoying that every tool has it's own
> domain-specific language (you hear me, sendmail?), but I'm not won
> over by the Windows Registry.

Again, Windows Registry is merely an implementation.

> > <rant>
> > Heck, even adding a CA certificate to a LINUX host's openssl [or is it
> > gnutls?] configuration is a stupidly arcane exercise.  So most LINUX
> > hosts I find [yes *most*] communicate either in-the-clear or with
> > certificate verification disabled.  All the while their "administrators"
> > jabber on about how much more secure LINUX is that Windows.  And the
> > response to the criticism is usually that interanet traffic is trusted.
> > Wow! [But do you need 802.1x authentication just to plug any laptop into
> > a switch?  Ha, no, you'll just get an address from DHCP.  Oh, right,
> > 802.1x would require a working PKI configuration.... back to square
> > one].
> > </rant>
> I'm annoyed that it's difficult to add a CA to the OS and make it work
> universally. 

Yep.

>  It probably requires more of those insane, lazy text files. 

No, you have to run the command "/usr/bin/c_rehash"  Eh?  Wow, is that
poorly documented.  And it still won't work because just about every app
and service on UNIX/LINUX rolls-it-own certificate discovery solution.  

> > > > wilds of the job market that are "knowledgable" about Administrating Windows
> > > > than Linux systems. It has absolutely nothing to do with the actual
> > > > configuration or maintaining of the resulting systems.
> > > >   Modenn Linux distros are in many ways as easy or easier to setup and
> > > > configure than comparable duty Windows servers/systems.
> > And implied in the statement "in many ways as easy or easier" is the
> > statement "in many other ways as hard or harder".  Inherently these
> > kinds of statements negate themselves - they have no meaning, IMO.
> In many ways, your comments make sense.





From radkins at impelind.com  Fri Aug 20 10:20:01 2010
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins II)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 10:20:01 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Microsoft Monopoly
In-Reply-To: <1282310800.4176.30.camel@linux-yu4c.site>
References: <54305.24271.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com><AANLkTikS3tAMnvxpttREq_Ac0hwLXcUMrRmy_WCkywm8@mail.gmail.com><FB6C9534A0E943FA8A6E2D6861EDBAD3@Delta7><1282303079.19176.19.camel@plumber-notebook.site><1282307225.4176.18.camel@linux-yu4c.site><20100820130633.GC25863@caen-gx755.engin.umich.edu>
	<1282310800.4176.30.camel@linux-yu4c.site>
Message-ID: <E540465D86AB48FA94816DC96B1E4F44@Delta7>


> 
> This is arguing an implementation against the concept.  [And 
> I haven't seen a trashed windows registry in a long time 
> anyway].  The mature concept is Active Directory. 
> 

  You haven't seen it because Microsoft has developed "failsafes" to hide
corrupted registries from the user/admin space. It continually duplicates
the registry into a "safe zone" and will "quietly" restore good
configurations if it discoveres corruption in the registry.

  That is not an ideal solution in my book.

  The plain text files used on Linux/UNIX are more robust. One thing that I
have seen being put into play over the last 15 years that I have been
administrating Linux is a combination of the plain text, for robustness, and
a binary "stack" for speed. (Which is the only real advantage a clean
Windows Registry has over a clean Linux install for configuration access,
it's faster than reading plain text files.)

  As for Administration Tools, those are becoming better and easier to use
all of the time. In fact, some of them are really awesome in that you have
the same interface, whether you are looking at it via a GUI or via an SSH
Shell. (I'm talking about Yast2 on the SuSe platform, which has been
consistent between GUI and CLI for so many years that I can't remember when
it wasn't.)

  There's plenty of easy to use configuration tools for Linux, such as the
Webmin system and Yast2 as two prime examples.

  They both have GUI tools for building CA, and "Active Directory" setups.

> >   At least with plain text, you can
> > put the configuration into proper version control and use a 
> > configuration management tool to manage things centrally.
> 
> Sure, *you* can.  But that's just the point.  Everyone 
> roll-your-own solution to system administration isn't good 
> system administration.  You get hit by a bus.... and pity the 
> poor fool who has to come in to manage your systems.
> 

  The configuration file for Samba is the same, no matter what server you go
to. The only real differences are what it calls for external/internal
authentication, the names of shares and permissions. If someone who claims
to be fluent in Samba administration is unable to walk up, review the
configuration file itself or is unable to fire up Swat or Webmin or
what-have-you-GUI-tool and see what it is doing and how to manage it, then
they really aren't fluent in Samba, period.

  The same can be said for virtually any and all other services that you can
run on Linux. The concept of each admin building a completlely different and
unreadable by another admin configuration file on Linux is a dead concept.

  -Rob



From billings at negate.org  Fri Aug 20 13:16:03 2010
From: billings at negate.org (Jonathan Billings)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 13:16:03 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Microsoft Monopoly
In-Reply-To: <1282310800.4176.30.camel@linux-yu4c.site>
References: <54305.24271.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<AANLkTikS3tAMnvxpttREq_Ac0hwLXcUMrRmy_WCkywm8@mail.gmail.com>
	<FB6C9534A0E943FA8A6E2D6861EDBAD3@Delta7>
	<1282303079.19176.19.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
	<1282307225.4176.18.camel@linux-yu4c.site>
	<20100820130633.GC25863@caen-gx755.engin.umich.edu>
	<1282310800.4176.30.camel@linux-yu4c.site>
Message-ID: <20100820171602.GA2722@caen-gx755.engin.umich.edu>

On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 09:26:40AM -0400, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> >   At least with plain text, you can
> > put the configuration into proper version control and use a
> > configuration management tool to manage things centrally.
> 
> Sure, *you* can.  But that's just the point.  Everyone roll-your-own
> solution to system administration isn't good system administration.  You
> get hit by a bus.... and pity the poor fool who has to come in to manage
> your systems.

I disagree, using configuration management software *IS* good system
administration.  

The use of version control and a central configuration management
infrastructure is one of the reasons why it is easier for the "poor
fool" to take over.  Changes are documented, and they all come from a
central location.  Check out Puppet, CFengine, Bcfg2, Chef, Radmind,
etc. 

I've run into too many inexperienced sysadmins who just log in to
each system and configured them individually, or reinvented a
management infrastructure completely in their own private world.
Considering you've been a UNIX/Linux admin for 15 years, I'm sure
you've experienced the benefits of a properly managed infrastructure.
It's not reasonable to make a change per-system anymore, although I do
still use vi to edit files before checking them in to the VCS. 

--

I think the reason there is no central registry for all configuration
languages is due to the fact that Linux (and UNIX) has a considerable
amount of history using text files for configuration.  MS was able to
pull off a central registry largely because of it's absolute control
over the OS and it's office products.

On the other hand, there is a diverse source of open source software,
and getting everyone to agree on something like a central
configuration database is rather difficult.  This is why there are a
handful of very popular desktop environments, each with their own
unique capabilities.  It is the nature of an open environment. 

There have been attempts to create a generic configuration
infrastructure in the past (ASN.1? NetInfo?) and several current
implementations (XDG, GConf) but no unified interface.

I've actually found that Augeas (http://augeas.net/) is an interesting
solution to the many-text-config file problem.  It makes the settings
in configuration files available in a tree-like object that you can
manage from a single API, even from a shell script.


-- 
Jonathan Billings <billings at negate.org>


From jrw32982 at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 20 14:02:02 2010
From: jrw32982 at yahoo.com (John Wiersba)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 11:02:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Microsoft Monopoly
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1282320002.17228.mdlug@mdlug.org>
References: <mailman.1.1282320002.17228.mdlug@mdlug.org>
Message-ID: <965469.25341.qm@web52702.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 08:27:05AM -0400, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> IMO, what it really means is they-are-right.  I'm an Open Source
> advocate and a UNIX/LINUX admin for ~15 years.  And I have no problem
> admitting this in many regards.  The Open Source communities' insane [or
> just lazy] addiction to the-txt-config-file is a serious hold-up for
> LINUX deployment;  it means all admin tools, to the point that they even
> exist, essentially *suck* and will eventually trash your config [acting
> as anti-admin tools].  Fortunately with XML configuration, XDG, D-Bus,
> etc... we are *finally* starting to move beyond the
> idiot-who-thinks-sysadmin-is-proficiency-in-vi.

Not being a sysadmin, but having used unix/linux as my primary work/home 
environment for 18 years, I can say that text configuration files are *not* the 
problem and are, in many ways, *much* better than other solutions.  I, for one, 
am very happy about linux/unix's insane/lazy addiction to text config files.  It 
enables many things that are extremely hard to achieve with other approaches.  
Not to say that it doesn't have its drawbacks.  For many sysadmin functions, I 
suppose lack of standardization/centralization is a drawback.  As an aside, I 
don't know that anyone would think vi is the be-all-end-all of sysadmin 
proficiency.

As was said in subsequent comments, it's the fact that there are so many 
roll-your-own, under-documented formats that causes some things to be "harder" 
in the linux world.  The roll-your-own approach to computers is both a strength 
and a weakness, just as it is in biology and society in general.  But overall, I 
believe that it is much more robust and scalable than the-one-true-way approach.

It is in the domain of linux/unix distributions to provide for the tools and 
translation layers that make standardized/centralized administration possible 
and reduce the need to understand all the nuances of thousands of separate 
packages and their configuration formats.  Distributions can do the work to make 
their packages play well together.

Finally, I feel obligated to point out that the Windows registry is an 
abomination, both in concept and implementation.  As much as I am not impressed 
by most things Microsoft, I am still flabbergasted that such a poor design could 
make it into Windows.  Hopefully linux projects will stay far away from that 
approach.

-- John


      

From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 21 12:28:48 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 09:28:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Microsoft Monopoly
In-Reply-To: <1282303079.19176.19.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
References: <54305.24271.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<AANLkTikS3tAMnvxpttREq_Ac0hwLXcUMrRmy_WCkywm8@mail.gmail.com>
	<FB6C9534A0E943FA8A6E2D6861EDBAD3@Delta7>
	<1282303079.19176.19.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <794159.96846.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Peter,

That is my frustration. They are baking a big mistake by chosing the path of 
least resistance. then when the web services bottleneck and those systems are 
brought to their knees and the leadership hold IT responsable for the problems.

David C. Lane 




________________________________
From: Peter Bart <petertheplumber at att.net>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Fri, August 20, 2010 4:17:59 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] OT: Microsoft Monopoly

On Thu, 2010-08-19 at 10:55 -0400, Robert Adkins II wrote:
> > 
> > --- David Lane wrote:
> > 
> > > Recently I was informed that a Linux server is being replaced by a 
> > > windows 2008 server.? I started to think about ?Microsoft Monopoly? 
> > > case. MS must have a very good legal team.
> > 
> > The problem is not the "monopoly", it's the flawed perception 
> > that, somehow, Windows severs are easier/cheaper/better than 
> > *nix servers.
> > The fact is that Internet-facing Windows servers are MUCH 
> > more vulnerable to attack than Linux/BSD/Mac-based servers.? 
> > I don't have the exact statistics in front of me, but from 
> > what I have seen, WAMP servers (Windows/Apache/MySQL/PHP) are 
> > more vulnerable than LAMP servers, with the Win/IIS server 
> > stack the most vulnerable of all to attack.? This means that 
> > Windows servers cost users TWICE (or more)--once for the OS, 
> > once for the added security and (to a high
> > probability) even more to clean up the mess after a 
> > successful attack; not to mention the down time needed to 
> > reboot the system(s) after the endless cycle of updates (that 
> > often cause more problems than they solve).
> > 
> > You may find more about this here:
> > <http://uptime.netcraft.com/ex/pass/pass-faq.html>
> > 
> > ~~ Michael Rudas
> >? ? My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
> >? ? My software blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com
> >? ? My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/protop
> >? ? http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey
> 
> 
>? When it is said that it is "easier" to Administer a Windows Server than a
> Linux server, what they really mean is that there are more people out in the
> wilds of the job market that are "knowledgable" about Administrating Windows
> than Linux systems. It has absolutely nothing to do with the actual
> configuration or maintaining of the resulting systems.
> 
>? Modern Linux distros are in many ways as easy or easier to setup and
> configure than comparable duty Windows servers/systems.
> 
>? -Rob

??? Easier is almost never better. What Rob says about about Windows vs
*nix people can be said about almost any trade/occupation. For example
handyman vs licensed plumber. I don't get it as much anymore; because I
do mostly commercial/industrial work; but I can still hear "I can get
that at xxxxx for much less". Yes, but can you install and maintain it
correctly for a long and troublefree life? Do you want it to fail at a
critical time? See Murphys Law.
-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


      

From Stan at mcomputersolutions.com  Sat Aug 21 13:09:47 2010
From: Stan at mcomputersolutions.com (Stan Green)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 13:09:47 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Grub error 17
In-Reply-To: <4C6E0AB6.4090101@bellsouth.net>
References: <201008192009.32702.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
	<4C6E0AB6.4090101@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <201008211309.48083.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>

Thanks for the suggestion.

The USB drive was not in the machine when the system was installed, so there is 
no way GRUB could have seen it as a boot drive. 

The machine was booting fine until I messed with dbus and hal. This may or may 
not be related to the error 17.

Any other thoughts?

Thanks,
Stan

On Friday 20 August 2010 12:55:18 am Dr. Robert Meier wrote:
> Stan,
>
> I regret that I don't have a complete answer handy,
> but I hope the following will help.
>
> For further details, consider reading the lengthy exchange at
>     http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=120802
>
> I suspect, initrd, the ram disk boot loader[1],
> was assembled at grub-install time
> with a map of devices different from that at boot time.
>
> <example>
> grub was installed on a hard disk in one host,
> where directing the bios to download from hd1
> loaded the kernel from the hard disk,
> and then the hard disk was placed in a different host,
> where directing the bios to download from hd1
> failed to load the kernel from the cd drive.
> </example>
>
> In your case I suspect the usb drive was installed when you
> ran grub-install(?) to "setup grub" and its presence
> altered the map of bios devices to unix devices
> (e.g. hd0 vs hd1 mapped to /dev/hda vs /dev/usb0),
> so that it differed from that reported by the bios
> during a later boot.  As I would expect the bios
> to map all non-removable devices exclusively or
> before any removable devices, the only way I
> can imagine your problem arising,
> requires time-overlapping installation and removal
> of an atapi (ide-scsi) or other such transient
> device.
>
>
>
> <hint>
> If my assumptions are correct,
> the deterministic solution is to boot an
> appropriate[2] rescue system
> (e.g. SuSE Rescue Disk) and "boot from hard disk",
> thus bypassing the hard disk mbr and initrd.
> You can then run grub-install with the correct
> device map.
> </hint>
>
> <hint>
> If my assumptions are correct,
> a more practical approach is to repeatedly
>    1. boot a rescue system
>    2. mount the hard disk, and edit /boot/boot/device.map on hard disk
>    3. shut down rescue system and remove live cd
>    4. attempt to boot from hard disk (without rescue system)
>    5. repeat steps 1-4 until 4 is successful
> In step 2 of each repetition, try a different pairing of
>    (hd0), (hd1), (hd2), ...
> and
>    /dev/hda, /dev/hdb, ...
> I would expect a successful boot in less than 7 attempts.
> (I would expect (hd0) /dev/hda to be most probable.)
> </hint>
>
>
>
> Once you have a successful build, I suggest that you
> use grub to reinstall cleanly so that this vexing
> problem does not bite again in future updates.
>
>
>
> [1] initrd is a small operating system image used to load a kernel
> that cannot be loaded by bios (usually too large or resident on
> a device not supported by bios).
>
> [2] Most simpler "rescue disk"s are merely and adjunct
> to an installation, probably reboot via bios,
> and would not be appropriate.  A better rescue disk will let
> you select the bootable partition, act as a "chain loader",
> and skip the bios "boot loader".
>
> On 08/19/10 20:09, Stan Green wrote:
> > I moved my wife's computer form SUSE 11 to Debian Lenny. I took a minimal
> > install approach and added what she needed. I had it almost done, just
> > needed to get USB working for a normal user, as I could only mount one as
> > root. (This is not the primary issue now! I'll come back to that later.)
> >
> > So, I was messing around with dbus and hal configuration. Nothing was
> > working so I put almost everything back the way it was (I missed a policy
> > section in hal.conf that gave her user ID the same rights  as root.)  I
> > then rebooted, but I forgot to take the USB flash drive out of the port.
> >
> > So up come GRUB error 17. My web searching turned up that error 17 is:
> > "This error is returned if the partition requested exists, but the
> > filesystem type cannot be recognized by GRUB. "  I do not even get to the
> > GRUB menu. After spending hours on line trying everthing I can find, I am
> > pulling my (virtual) hair out. Using Knoppix, I have run GRUB setup on
> > the first hardrive, I have done the fidisk to fix the partation table. I
> > have run fsck on both the boot partition and the root partation.  Nothing
> > has worked.
> >
> > So, could I have messed up something with dbus or hal that would keep the
> > machine from booting? Could leaving the USB drive in caused some change?
>
> hal.  Yes, but AFAIK, another "mounted device removal" was required,
> e.g. running kernel on atapi mounted partition.
>
> > Is there anything else that might be keeping GRUB from recognizing the
> > file system?
>
> A purely coincidental disk corruption of the boot image
> could have the same symptoms,
> but fsck and grub setup should have corrected the corruption.
>
> Hopefully helpful,
> --
> Bob
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 21 13:38:55 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 10:38:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Microsoft Monopoly
In-Reply-To: <794159.96846.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <54305.24271.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<AANLkTikS3tAMnvxpttREq_Ac0hwLXcUMrRmy_WCkywm8@mail.gmail.com>
	<FB6C9534A0E943FA8A6E2D6861EDBAD3@Delta7>
	<1282303079.19176.19.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
	<794159.96846.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <447928.89052.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>






________________________________
From: David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com>
To: petertheplumber at att.net; MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Sat, August 21, 2010 9:28:48 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] OT: Microsoft Monopoly

Peter,

That is my frustration. They are MAKING a big mistake by chosing the path of 
least resistance. then when the web services bottleneck and those systems are 
brought to their knees and the leadership hold IT responsable for the problems.

David C. Lane 




________________________________
From: Peter Bart <petertheplumber at att.net>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Fri, August 20, 2010 4:17:59 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] OT: Microsoft Monopoly

On Thu, 2010-08-19 at 10:55 -0400, Robert Adkins II wrote:
> > 
> > --- David Lane wrote:
> > 
> > > Recently I was informed that a Linux server is being replaced by a 
> > > windows 2008 server.? I started to think about ?Microsoft Monopoly? 
> > > case. MS must have a very good legal team.
> > 
> > The problem is not the "monopoly", it's the flawed perception 
> > that, somehow, Windows severs are easier/cheaper/better than 
> > *nix servers.
> > The fact is that Internet-facing Windows servers are MUCH 
> > more vulnerable to attack than Linux/BSD/Mac-based servers.? 
> > I don't have the exact statistics in front of me, but from 
> > what I have seen, WAMP servers (Windows/Apache/MySQL/PHP) are 
> > more vulnerable than LAMP servers, with the Win/IIS server 
> > stack the most vulnerable of all to attack.? This means that 
> > Windows servers cost users TWICE (or more)--once for the OS, 
> > once for the added security and (to a high
> > probability) even more to clean up the mess after a 
> > successful attack; not to mention the down time needed to 
> > reboot the system(s) after the endless cycle of updates (that 
> > often cause more problems than they solve).
> > 
> > You may find more about this here:
> > <http://uptime.netcraft.com/ex/pass/pass-faq.html>
> > 
> > ~~ Michael Rudas
> >? ? My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
> >? ? My software blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com
> >? ? My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/protop
> >? ? http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey
> 
> 
>? When it is said that it is "easier" to Administer a Windows Server than a
> Linux server, what they really mean is that there are more people out in the
> wilds of the job market that are "knowledgable" about Administrating Windows
> than Linux systems. It has absolutely nothing to do with the actual
> configuration or maintaining of the resulting systems.
> 
>? Modern Linux distros are in many ways as easy or easier to setup and
> configure than comparable duty Windows servers/systems.
> 
>? -Rob

??? Easier is almost never better. What Rob says about about Windows vs
*nix people can be said about almost any trade/occupation. For example
handyman vs licensed plumber. I don't get it as much anymore; because I
do mostly commercial/industrial work; but I can still hear "I can get
that at xxxxx for much less". Yes, but can you install and maintain it
correctly for a long and troublefree life? Do you want it to fail at a
critical time? See Murphys Law.
-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


? ? ? 
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


      

From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sat Aug 21 15:33:25 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 15:33:25 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Grub error 17
In-Reply-To: <201008211309.48083.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
References: <201008192009.32702.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
	<4C6E0AB6.4090101@bellsouth.net>
	<201008211309.48083.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin1GVCtL=hJzOs5aQLsxRqoUBbzS8AKu_3kVjk=@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 1:09 PM, Stan Green <Stan at mcomputersolutions.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the suggestion.
>
> The USB drive was not in the machine when the system was installed, so there is
> no way GRUB could have seen it as a boot drive.
>
> The machine was booting fine until I messed with dbus and hal. This may or may
> not be related to the error 17.
>

Depending on BIOS settings the drive boot order/number may change if
another bootable drive is added (like a USB drive).  One solution is
to disable USB booting.  If Grub is installed when a USB drive is
connected during boot/POST then boot drive number it set in the MBR
will be wrong if the drive is removed later.

A similar situation involves RAID1 configurations when you want to be
able to boot from the second drive when the first fails.  You have to
install Grub to the second drive configured as if it was the first
otherwise it won't boot when the first is removed.


From Stan at mcomputersolutions.com  Sun Aug 22 21:05:51 2010
From: Stan at mcomputersolutions.com (Stan Green)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 21:05:51 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Grub error 17 (solved)
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTin1GVCtL=hJzOs5aQLsxRqoUBbzS8AKu_3kVjk=@mail.gmail.com>
References: <201008192009.32702.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
	<201008211309.48083.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
	<AANLkTin1GVCtL=hJzOs5aQLsxRqoUBbzS8AKu_3kVjk=@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201008222105.51819.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>

Thanks Jeff!

I think this is what happened. I have two hard drives and they were swapped, I 
assume by the BIOS. I also notices that Knoppix sees the drives in the reverse 
order from Debian. So in Knoppix, it looked fine. I fixed it by booting to 
SuperGrub and was able to find the issue and get the system working again.

Regards,
Stan

On Saturday 21 August 2010 03:33:25 pm you wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 1:09 PM, Stan Green <Stan at mcomputersolutions.com> 
wrote:
> > Thanks for the suggestion.
> >
> > The USB drive was not in the machine when the system was installed, so
> > there is no way GRUB could have seen it as a boot drive.
> >
> > The machine was booting fine until I messed with dbus and hal. This may
> > or may not be related to the error 17.
>
> Depending on BIOS settings the drive boot order/number may change if
> another bootable drive is added (like a USB drive).  One solution is
> to disable USB booting.  If Grub is installed when a USB drive is
> connected during boot/POST then boot drive number it set in the MBR
> will be wrong if the drive is removed later.
>
> A similar situation involves RAID1 configurations when you want to be
> able to boot from the second drive when the first fails.  You have to
> install Grub to the second drive configured as if it was the first
> otherwise it won't boot when the first is removed.




From elcarew at sbcglobal.net  Wed Aug 25 08:28:42 2010
From: elcarew at sbcglobal.net (Evan Carew)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 08:28:42 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Apache and Config for files outside of www dir
In-Reply-To: <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE469022FDBADB1@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
References: <20100810.102733.3861.0@webmail23.vgs.untd.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE469022FDBADB1@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
Message-ID: <4C750C7A.3060902@sbcglobal.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

You know, I'm interested in this topic as well. Professionally, I do web
development for FRY and Grandriver of Ann Arbor, and I had trouble
getting my new FC11 laptop config to work in an office environment the
way I wanted it to. A rather frustrating experience for someone who has
used Linux for the last 10 years. Much like the originator of this
thread, I wanted to do web development outside of /var/www, in this
case, my /home/me/Projects directory. I was under the impression that I
could use soft links, or aliases, but nothing worked. There was always
some security complaint from Apache. Out of frustration I eventually
ended up using NFS with the squash all parameter. That fixed it, but at
a performance cost I'm still not happy about. If anyone is currently
using an alternative method which actually works (example httpd.conf
would be appreciated) I think we could all benifit.

On 08/10/2010 11:52 AM, Wojtak, Greg wrote:
> Instead of creating a soft link, you could, in your httpd.conf, do
>
> Alias /mystuff/ /media/mydrivename/mystuff/
>
> Then you might need a Directory entry for /mystuff/
>
> <Directory /media/mydrivename/mystuff>
>    Options Indexes
>    AllowOverride None
>    Order allow,deny
>    Allow from all
> </Directory>
>
> You may need to tweak some of the directives in the
<Directory></Directory> block, but that should be a relatively
straightforward method of doing what you are trying to do.
>
> Greg
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On
Behalf Of gib at juno.com
> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 10:28 AM
> To: mdlug at mdlug.org
> Subject: [mdlug] Apache and Config for files outside of www dir
>
> I'm trying to set up my web server to allow me to have the files on my
large drive assessable.  I'm running into what, I assume, is a security
issue that someone would be able help with.
>
[snip]
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)

iEUEARECAAYFAkx1DHcACgkQpxCQXwV2bJCoaQCbBKPXHMMhMiXG0l4YFZKHX/r1
QKcAmNeenJX3pmGm8k/oH4BFXklMd/8=
=2DOm
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From fativi at gmail.com  Wed Aug 25 09:03:47 2010
From: fativi at gmail.com (Brian)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 09:03:47 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Apache and Config for files outside of www dir
In-Reply-To: <4C750C7A.3060902@sbcglobal.net>
References: <20100810.102733.3861.0@webmail23.vgs.untd.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE469022FDBADB1@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4C750C7A.3060902@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimdeqx1-nmkdk1-AyrNpQkBLbXnteCx_NtzsV8D@mail.gmail.com>

NFS to replace symlinks? That's a bit like swatting a fly with a scud missle
:) Honestly there shouldn't be any problems with using symlinks so long as
the apache config allows it and the user that runs apache has access to your
projects folder.

On Aug 25, 2010 8:35 AM, "Evan Carew" <elcarew at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> You know, I'm interested in this topic as well. Professionally, I do web
> development for FRY and Grandriver of Ann Arbor, and I had trouble
> getting my new FC11 laptop config to work in an office environment the
> way I wanted it to. A rather frustrating experience for someone who has
> used Linux for the last 10 years. Much like the originator of this
> thread, I wanted to do web development outside of /var/www, in this
> case, my /home/me/Projects directory. I was under the impression that I
> could use soft links, or aliases, but nothing worked. There was always
> some security complaint from Apache. Out of frustration I eventually
> ended up using NFS with the squash all parameter. That fixed it, but at
> a performance cost I'm still not happy about. If anyone is currently
> using an alternative method which actually works (example httpd.conf
> would be appreciated) I think we could all benifit.
>
> On 08/10/2010 11:52 AM, Wojtak, Greg wrote:
>> Instead of creating a soft link, you could, in your httpd.conf, do
>>
>> Alias /mystuff/ /media/mydrivename/mystuff/
>>
>> Then you might need a Directory entry for /mystuff/
>>
>> <Directory /media/mydrivename/mystuff>
>> Options Indexes
>> AllowOverride None
>> Order allow,deny
>> Allow from all
>> </Directory>
>>
>> You may need to tweak some of the directives in the
> <Directory></Directory> block, but that should be a relatively
> straightforward method of doing what you are trying to do.
>>
>> Greg
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On
> Behalf Of gib at juno.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 10:28 AM
>> To: mdlug at mdlug.org
>> Subject: [mdlug] Apache and Config for files outside of www dir
>>
>> I'm trying to set up my web server to allow me to have the files on my
> large drive assessable. I'm running into what, I assume, is a security
> issue that someone would be able help with.
>>
> [snip]
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iEUEARECAAYFAkx1DHcACgkQpxCQXwV2bJCoaQCbBKPXHMMhMiXG0l4YFZKHX/r1
> QKcAmNeenJX3pmGm8k/oH4BFXklMd/8=
> =2DOm
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From painbank at gmail.com  Wed Aug 25 09:59:52 2010
From: painbank at gmail.com (Rich Elswick)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 09:59:52 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Apache and Config for files outside of www dir
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimdeqx1-nmkdk1-AyrNpQkBLbXnteCx_NtzsV8D@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100810.102733.3861.0@webmail23.vgs.untd.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE469022FDBADB1@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4C750C7A.3060902@sbcglobal.net>
	<AANLkTimdeqx1-nmkdk1-AyrNpQkBLbXnteCx_NtzsV8D@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=WO5PvDhhKjQ4-N6TVjE=ws6iBmzUFe7igsQLN@mail.gmail.com>

Take a look at how Subversion and WebDav  does it as you can expose
your svn directories via WebDav (sp?) On Apache.

Rich

On 8/25/10, Brian <fativi at gmail.com> wrote:
> NFS to replace symlinks? That's a bit like swatting a fly with a scud missle
> :) Honestly there shouldn't be any problems with using symlinks so long as
> the apache config allows it and the user that runs apache has access to your
> projects folder.
>
> On Aug 25, 2010 8:35 AM, "Evan Carew" <elcarew at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> You know, I'm interested in this topic as well. Professionally, I do web
>> development for FRY and Grandriver of Ann Arbor, and I had trouble
>> getting my new FC11 laptop config to work in an office environment the
>> way I wanted it to. A rather frustrating experience for someone who has
>> used Linux for the last 10 years. Much like the originator of this
>> thread, I wanted to do web development outside of /var/www, in this
>> case, my /home/me/Projects directory. I was under the impression that I
>> could use soft links, or aliases, but nothing worked. There was always
>> some security complaint from Apache. Out of frustration I eventually
>> ended up using NFS with the squash all parameter. That fixed it, but at
>> a performance cost I'm still not happy about. If anyone is currently
>> using an alternative method which actually works (example httpd.conf
>> would be appreciated) I think we could all benifit.
>>
>> On 08/10/2010 11:52 AM, Wojtak, Greg wrote:
>>> Instead of creating a soft link, you could, in your httpd.conf, do
>>>
>>> Alias /mystuff/ /media/mydrivename/mystuff/
>>>
>>> Then you might need a Directory entry for /mystuff/
>>>
>>> <Directory /media/mydrivename/mystuff>
>>> Options Indexes
>>> AllowOverride None
>>> Order allow,deny
>>> Allow from all
>>> </Directory>
>>>
>>> You may need to tweak some of the directives in the
>> <Directory></Directory> block, but that should be a relatively
>> straightforward method of doing what you are trying to do.
>>>
>>> Greg
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On
>> Behalf Of gib at juno.com
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 10:28 AM
>>> To: mdlug at mdlug.org
>>> Subject: [mdlug] Apache and Config for files outside of www dir
>>>
>>> I'm trying to set up my web server to allow me to have the files on my
>> large drive assessable. I'm running into what, I assume, is a security
>> issue that someone would be able help with.
>>>
>> [snip]
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
>>
>> iEUEARECAAYFAkx1DHcACgkQpxCQXwV2bJCoaQCbBKPXHMMhMiXG0l4YFZKHX/r1
>> QKcAmNeenJX3pmGm8k/oH4BFXklMd/8=
>> =2DOm
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mdlug mailing list
>> mdlug at mdlug.org
>> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>

-- 
Sent from my mobile device

Rich Elswick


From gib at juno.com  Wed Aug 25 14:02:25 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 18:02:25 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] Fw: [ubuntu-us-mi] REMINDER - Global Jam *this* Saturday
Message-ID: <20100825.140225.18747.0@webmail07.vgs.untd.com>

FYI

---------- Forwarded Message ----------
From: Greg Grossmeier <greg at grossmeier.net>
To: Michigan Ubuntu Local Community Team <ubuntu-us-mi at lists.ubuntu.com>
Subject: [ubuntu-us-mi] REMINDER - Global Jam *this* Saturday
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 12:17:50 -0400

This is your friendly reminder to register for this weekend's Michigan 
edition of the Global Jam in downtown Ann Arbor.

All the details and registration information is here:
http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/321/detail/

To register just login (it uses your Launchpad account) the click on the 
"Register for this Event" link.

Hope to see you all there!

Greg

-- 
|       Greg Grossmeier |
| http://grossmeier.net |

-- 
ubuntu-us-mi mailing list
ubuntu-us-mi at lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-mi
____________________________________________________________
Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance
If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4c755ad3e208c88f375st04vuc

From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Wed Aug 25 18:23:06 2010
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Dr. Robert Meier)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 18:23:06 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Apache and Config for files outside of www dir
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=WO5PvDhhKjQ4-N6TVjE=ws6iBmzUFe7igsQLN@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100810.102733.3861.0@webmail23.vgs.untd.com>	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE469022FDBADB1@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>	<4C750C7A.3060902@sbcglobal.net>	<AANLkTimdeqx1-nmkdk1-AyrNpQkBLbXnteCx_NtzsV8D@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=WO5PvDhhKjQ4-N6TVjE=ws6iBmzUFe7igsQLN@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C7597CA.5030606@bellsouth.net>

Rich, Evan, Greg, ...

>> On Aug 25, 2010 8:35 AM, "Evan Carew" <elcarew at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> Much like the originator of this thread,
>>> I wanted to do web development outside of /var/www,
>>> in this case, my /home/me/Projects directory.
>>> I was under the impression that I could use soft links, or aliases, but nothing worked.

Symlink references cannot be integrity checked directly by apache
(The file name "/home/projects" and the delivered content can be
checked but not the intermediate contents.).

Consequently apache won't follow symlinks by default.

In concert with other features "Options FollowSymlinks" can direct the
server to use symlinks.

	---- /etc/apache2/httpd.conf.local ----
...
# Prepared Presentations
Alias /presentations/ "/home/presenter/presentations/speeches/"

<Directory "/home/presenter/presentations/speeches">
 Options Indexes MultiViews FollowSymLinks
 AllowOverride None
 Order allow,deny
 Allow from all
</Directory>
...
	---- /etc/apache2/httpd.conf.local ----

Alias <string-to-match> <replacement-string>
  - operates on URIs given to server
  - / leading and trailing / restrict match to a hierarchy
<Directory ...>
  - identifies namespace scope to which overrides are to be applied
Options ...
  - changes to apply in given scope
Indexes
  - if URI maps to a directory
  - and there is no index page (e.g. index.html)
  - return a virtual index page
  - rather than refuse delivery (i.e. apache default)
  - or return entire directory (HTML standard)
MultiViews
  - return page in requesters choice of format
  - (e.g. convert picture.gif file in directory to jpeg
     if URI is .../picture.jpg)
FollowSymLinks
  - chain access along soft links (i.e. normal unix behavior)
AllowOverride None
  - terminate change application chain for this scope
  - (i.e. ignore .htacces, etc. in directory)
Order allow,deny
  - expand by allow before restricting deny
Allow from all
  - deliver to any requester

See http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/sections.html for further details.

>>>> You may need to tweak some of the directives in the
>>> <Directory></Directory> block, but that should be a relatively
>>> straightforward method of doing what you are trying to do.

Hopefully helpful,
--
Bob


From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Thu Aug 26 02:07:26 2010
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Dr. Robert Meier)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 02:07:26 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] /sbin/route sending dns request for numeric addresses
Message-ID: <4C76049E.1080403@bellsouth.net>

Netters,

I recently installed openSuSE-11.2 on a laptop,
and would appreciate any help with a few problems.


1. /sbin/route takes ~75 seconds to report a 4-line routing table.
    Kernel IP routing table                             <- immediate
    Destination     Gateway         Genmask         ...    <- immediate
    192.168.xxx.0   *               255.255.255.0   ...    <- 15SEC
    link-local      *               255.255.0.0     ...    <- immediate
    loopback        *               255.0.0.0       ...    <- immediate
    default         192.168.1.254   0.0.0.0         ...    <- 25SEC
   immediate is less than 1sec
   15SEC and 25SEC seem excessive to me for these two lines
   No new lines appear in /var/log/message, /var/log/*, nor dmesg output

2. If ipv6 support is enabled
   yast2> [Networks Devices] [Network Settings] [Global Options]
          Enable IPv6: [<checked>]
   The network devices (only eth0 so far) never come up,
     and the route table contains only link-local and loopback lines.

3. software repositories fail to refresh
   yast2> [Software] [Software Repositories]
          [openSuSE-11.2-Oss] [Refresh/Refresh Now]
        reports fails to donwload
          http;//download.opensuse.org/
            distribution/11.2/repo/oss/media.1/media
        likewise for all (tds, utexas, ...) mirrors tried
          bash> curl -v <same uri>
        successfully retrieves apparently correct data.
   /var/log/messages only reiterates download failure.


To workaround problem 1,
   I added localdomain[192.168.xxx.0] and default[0.0.0.0]
     to /etc/networks
   and gateway[192.168.xxx.254] to /etc/hosts.
Why is this necessary?
strace /sbin/route reported a socket openned to 192.168.xxx.254:53
  and write 192.168.xxx.0 attempted twice.
Why does /sbin/route ask the dns server for an ip
  address for 192.168.xxx.0 which is already an
  ip address (as xxx is actually an integer)?

TIA,
--
Bob


From billings at negate.org  Thu Aug 26 08:39:56 2010
From: billings at negate.org (Jonathan Billings)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 08:39:56 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Apache and Config for files outside of www dir
In-Reply-To: <4C750C7A.3060902@sbcglobal.net>
References: <20100810.102733.3861.0@webmail23.vgs.untd.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE469022FDBADB1@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4C750C7A.3060902@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <20100826123956.GA13145@caen-gx755.engin.umich.edu>

On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 08:28:42AM -0400, Evan Carew wrote:
> ... I had trouble getting my new FC11 laptop config to work ...

Since you mentioned Fedora, I suspect the thing you were getting hung
up with was SELinux.  Fedora releases Apache and SELinux
configurations that are pretty locked down, denying the httpd
processes to read files, execute binaries and bind to ports outside of
a specific context.  This really helps secure the system, but at the
cost of confusing people who have been running web servers for a long
time.  Most likely, by moving the files into NFS, you changed the
SELinux attributes of the files you were reading to type nfs_t, which
means you probably have enabled http->nfs access, so the SELinux
boolean had httpd_use_nfs --> on.  Check out the getsebool and
setsebool man pages.

Unfortunately, a lot of people simply turn off SELinux when they
encounter it, which is unfortunate, because it can really save your
bacon if someone discovers a way to make your web server divulge
information it's not intended.  SELinux is powerful, but there has yet
to be a particularly user-friendly interface.

-- 
Jonathan Billings <billings at negate.org>


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Thu Aug 26 08:49:44 2010
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 08:49:44 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Cross-platform GUI suggestions
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E037054AC0D3@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

I'm planning on writing an app, potentially commercial, that needs to
run on Windows, Macs, and Linux. GUI development hasn't been my thing,
so I'm wondering... does anyone have any good suggestions for relatively
easy cross-platform GUI development tools? Ideally one that provides
"native look and feel" without too much fussing around?

Any suggestions (or warnings!) welcome...

 Ray Ingles                                               (313) 227-2317

 "When you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer;
          superstition ain't the way..." - Stevie Wonder


From mark.stanislav at gmail.com  Thu Aug 26 08:56:06 2010
From: mark.stanislav at gmail.com (Mark Stanislav)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 08:56:06 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Cross-platform GUI suggestions
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E037054AC0D3@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E037054AC0D3@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <3B32C901-D9D4-431A-AC65-D3DEFCD3AC00@gmail.com>

wxwidgets



On Aug 26, 2010, at 8:49 AM, "Ingles, Raymond" <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:

> I'm planning on writing an app, potentially commercial, that needs to
> run on Windows, Macs, and Linux. GUI development hasn't been my thing,
> so I'm wondering... does anyone have any good suggestions for relatively
> easy cross-platform GUI development tools? Ideally one that provides
> "native look and feel" without too much fussing around?
> 
> Any suggestions (or warnings!) welcome...
> 
> Ray Ingles                                               (313) 227-2317
> 
> "When you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer;
>          superstition ain't the way..." - Stevie Wonder
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From painbank at gmail.com  Thu Aug 26 09:52:12 2010
From: painbank at gmail.com (Rich Elswick)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 09:52:12 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Cross-platform GUI suggestions
In-Reply-To: <3B32C901-D9D4-431A-AC65-D3DEFCD3AC00@gmail.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E037054AC0D3@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<3B32C901-D9D4-431A-AC65-D3DEFCD3AC00@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimKUG6Tk_2tjWTiJsSFaRz-aR-MmwfunPvmHXSG@mail.gmail.com>

qt4 is now free, verse having to have paid for it in the past, although I
just started using it, so I am not sure how well it will work for you.

<glances at html5>

Rich

On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 8:56 AM, Mark Stanislav <mark.stanislav at gmail.com>wrote:

> wxwidgets
>
>
>
> On Aug 26, 2010, at 8:49 AM, "Ingles, Raymond" <
> Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm planning on writing an app, potentially commercial, that needs to
> > run on Windows, Macs, and Linux. GUI development hasn't been my thing,
> > so I'm wondering... does anyone have any good suggestions for relatively
> > easy cross-platform GUI development tools? Ideally one that provides
> > "native look and feel" without too much fussing around?
> >
> > Any suggestions (or warnings!) welcome...
> >
> > Ray Ingles                                               (313) 227-2317
> >
> > "When you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer;
> >          superstition ain't the way..." - Stevie Wonder
> > _______________________________________________
> > mdlug mailing list
> > mdlug at mdlug.org
> > http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>



-- 
Rich Elswick


From cvweiss at gmail.com  Thu Aug 26 10:57:10 2010
From: cvweiss at gmail.com (Clinton V. Weiss)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 10:57:10 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Cross-platform GUI suggestions
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimKUG6Tk_2tjWTiJsSFaRz-aR-MmwfunPvmHXSG@mail.gmail.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E037054AC0D3@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<3B32C901-D9D4-431A-AC65-D3DEFCD3AC00@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimKUG6Tk_2tjWTiJsSFaRz-aR-MmwfunPvmHXSG@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTine7Onqr4CtHUU4Bbfii4O=7vvs2gtPiLTVqnjm@mail.gmail.com>

I've written a few commercial apps with extensive GUI use in Java.  However,
this was about 5 years ago when JBuilder was strong and had it's awesome GUI
editor.  Today, I have yet to find a (free) Java GUI editor that can compare
to JBuilder's, so while you'll have excellent cross-platform compatibility
with Look and Feel that will easily match the system you're running on,
learning to do this from scratch will be difficult.

Clinton

-- 
Clinton V. Weiss
cvweiss at gmail.com


From steve at goodhall.info  Thu Aug 26 12:34:15 2010
From: steve at goodhall.info (Steve Goodhall)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 11:34:15 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Cross-platform GUI suggestions
Message-ID: <56499.1282840455@goodhall.info>

  BODY { font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px; }I
have had reasonably good experiences with NetBeans though I have to
admit it isn't JBuilder.  I don't necessarily agree that even doing if
from scratch is all that hard. It definitely beats doing GUI from
scratch in Visual Studio or Access by several miles.  To be fair to
Microsoft, .NET has stolen a lot of the Java concepts so it is
somewhat better than VB6.
 Regards, 
 Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP 
 248-505-5204 
 On Thu 26/08/10 10:57 AM , "Clinton V. Weiss" cvweiss at gmail.com
sent:
 I've written a few commercial apps with extensive GUI use in Java. 
However,
 this was about 5 years ago when JBuilder was strong and had it's
awesome GUI
 editor.  Today, I have yet to find a (free) Java GUI editor that can
compare
 to JBuilder's, so while you'll have excellent cross-platform
compatibility
 with Look and Feel that will easily match the system you're running
on,
 learning to do this from scratch will be difficult.
 Clinton
 -- 
 Clinton V. Weiss
 cvweiss at gmail.com [1]
 _______________________________________________
 mdlug mailing list
 mdlug at mdlug.org [2]
 http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
 

Links:
------
[1] mailto:cvweiss at gmail.com
[2] mailto:mdlug at mdlug.org


From gib at juno.com  Thu Aug 26 13:16:16 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 17:16:16 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] [Discuss] Linux Job Posting
Message-ID: <20100826.131616.18618.0@webmail23.vgs.untd.com>

FYI

---------- Forwarded Message ----------
From: Dave Robins <daverobins at intrepidcs.com>
To: discuss at mug.org
Subject: [Discuss] Linux Job Posting
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 11:33:49 -0400

Hey Everyone,

I mentioned this position at the last MUG meeting. See you at
LinuxFest. Here are the details:

Embedded Linux Engineer

Intrepid Control Systems is looking to add an embedded Linux engineer
as a key team member. All experience levels will be considered for a
fit and we are willing to train people who can learn quickly. Position
includes great benefits, a small team environment and opportunities
for travel.  While attitude is the best qualification for this
position, the following skills are most helpful -

Valuable Skills...
* Knowledge of uboot
* Compiling/Building of Linux Kernel for embedded devices
* C/C++ programming for Linux
* TCP/IP knowledge
* Linux Administration
* Linux drivers
* ARM architecture
* Source control like SVN, CVS and Git
* OpenEmbedded
* Android
* USB
* Java
* Electronics hardware knowledge
* OMAP ARM/DSP experience
* Project management
* Beagleboard architecture

Please contact us to discuss this opportunity at .

http://www.intrepidcs.com/employment.html


-- 
Very Truly Yours,
Dave Robins
President & Engineering Manager
Intrepid Control Systems, Inc.
5700 18 Mile Rd
Sterling Heights, Michigan 48314 USA
+1-586-731-7950
www.intrepidcs.com
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
Discuss at mug.org
http://www.mug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
____________________________________________________________
Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance
If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4c76a18623cbc9506e7st01vuc

From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Thu Aug 26 17:58:03 2010
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Dr. Robert Meier)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 17:58:03 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Cross-platform GUI suggestions
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTine7Onqr4CtHUU4Bbfii4O=7vvs2gtPiLTVqnjm@mail.gmail.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E037054AC0D3@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<3B32C901-D9D4-431A-AC65-D3DEFCD3AC00@gmail.com>	<AANLkTimKUG6Tk_2tjWTiJsSFaRz-aR-MmwfunPvmHXSG@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTine7Onqr4CtHUU4Bbfii4O=7vvs2gtPiLTVqnjm@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C76E36B.7030602@bellsouth.net>

Ray,

> I'm planning on writing an app, potentially commercial,
> that needs to run on Windows, Macs, and Linux.
> GUI development hasn't been my thing, so I'm wondering...
> does anyone have any good suggestions for relatively
> easy cross-platform GUI development tools?
> Ideally one that provides "native look and feel"
> without too much fussing around?

Just in case you've not already rejected it,
for platform indepedence I suggest a webapp,
and CodeIgniter apps are very easy to write.

CodeIgniter apps DO NOT have "native look and feel".

Hopefully helpful,
--
Bob



From davidl at lmert.com  Thu Aug 26 19:49:03 2010
From: davidl at lmert.com (David Lee Lambert)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 19:49:03 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Cross-platform GUI suggestions
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTine7Onqr4CtHUU4Bbfii4O=7vvs2gtPiLTVqnjm@mail.gmail.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E037054AC0D3@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<3B32C901-D9D4-431A-AC65-D3DEFCD3AC00@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimKUG6Tk_2tjWTiJsSFaRz-aR-MmwfunPvmHXSG@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTine7Onqr4CtHUU4Bbfii4O=7vvs2gtPiLTVqnjm@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinwf4NSkHYLwcULxyKDQGycwTikX0Y4z+ho2R8S@mail.gmail.com>

+1 for Java.

There used to be an OK drag-and-drop editor in NetBeans,  although it was
clunky on the hardware I had at the time.  I haven't used it in a while,
and I imagine any big or commercial application would soon outgrow the
confines of the GUI's drag-and-drop code generator.

IBM's Rational Application Developer (an expensive commercial product, based
on Eclipse; I use it on the job; by the way IBM is hiring programmers in
Lansing) has a "visual editor" for drag-and-drop code generation, but the
"visual editor" only barely works some of the time.  I wouldn't recommend it
as anything other than a learning tool.

MyEclipse claims to have a visual code-builder in their shareware add-on to
Eclipse,  but I haven't used that part of it.

Java Swing is easy enough to code by hand once you get the hang of it,  and
the Java tutorials on Sun's (now Oracle's) website are pretty good.  The one
third-party piece of code I would recommend is "RiverLayout",  if you can
find that;  it made making a well-behaved dialog-box a lot easier.

If you prefer perl to Java,  you could try perl/Tk;  but I don't know how
well that works on the Mac.

--
DLL

On 26 August 2010 10:57, Clinton V. Weiss <cvweiss at gmail.com> wrote:

> I've written a few commercial apps with extensive GUI use in Java.
>  However,
> this was about 5 years ago when JBuilder was strong and had it's awesome
> GUI
> editor.  Today, I have yet to find a (free) Java GUI editor that can
> compare
> to JBuilder's, so while you'll have excellent cross-platform compatibility
> with Look and Feel that will easily match the system you're running on,
> learning to do this from scratch will be difficult.
>
> Clinton
>
> --
> Clinton V. Weiss
> cvweiss at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 26 21:23:41 2010
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 21:23:41 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Cross-platform GUI suggestions
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E037054AC0D3@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E037054AC0D3@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=m=aRNuw-TWM__6QLjD62yx+tfm4aGH9xP9OjO@mail.gmail.com>

--- Raymond Ingles wrote:

> I'm planning on writing an app, potentially commercial, that needs to
> run on Windows, Macs, and Linux. GUI development hasn't been my thing,
> so I'm wondering... does anyone have any good suggestions for relatively
> easy cross-platform GUI development tools? Ideally one that provides
> "native look and feel" without too much fussing around?

VLC is cross-platform and uses some GUI toolkit.  It used to use
WxWidgets, now uses something else.  They mention what it is,
somewhere...

~~ Michael Rudas
?? My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
?? My software blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com
?? My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/protop
?? http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey


From amkowalczyk at gmail.com  Thu Aug 26 22:29:24 2010
From: amkowalczyk at gmail.com (amkowalczyk)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 22:29:24 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] command line programs in the mainstream press
Message-ID: <4C772304.4000402@gmail.com>

  Well, I call Lifehacker mainstream...  
http://lifehacker.com/5622340/who-needs-a-mouse-learn-to-use-the-command-line-for-almost-anything

Check out Star Wars IV in ascii "video"...


From rmdion at gmail.com  Sun Aug 29 20:46:05 2010
From: rmdion at gmail.com (Bob Dion)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 19:46:05 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT win antivirus
Message-ID: <4C7AFF4D.5040609@gmail.com>

Hi All,

So what free anti-virus software are people using these days?

Thanks, Bob


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sun Aug 29 20:54:07 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 20:54:07 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT win antivirus
In-Reply-To: <4C7AFF4D.5040609@gmail.com>
References: <4C7AFF4D.5040609@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimzoV=SqGU72o5Oc8Fp4EFHhFGrtb_L4q_j6Dj-@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 8:46 PM, Bob Dion <rmdion at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> So what free anti-virus software are people using these days?
>

AVG and AntiVir.  Run AVG without the link checking (very annoying in
web browsers).  Install AntiVir without the avguard on-access scanner
(to prevent problems with AVG on-access scanner).  Teach users to scan
every download with both.


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 29 21:56:12 2010
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 21:56:12 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT win antivirus
In-Reply-To: <4C7AFF4D.5040609@gmail.com>
References: <4C7AFF4D.5040609@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinuiZRBy9H3ocvH_1rbPKgpOEqanuEELObt7ifP@mail.gmail.com>

--- Bob Dion wrote:

> So what free anti-virus software are people using these days?

I have mostly been using Avast! and the Avira Rescue CD for cleanup.

~~ Michael Rudas
?? My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
?? My software blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com
?? My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/protop
?? http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 30 00:27:57 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 00:27:57 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT win antivirus
In-Reply-To: <4C7AFF4D.5040609@gmail.com>
References: <4C7AFF4D.5040609@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C7B334D.3020601@gmail.com>

Bob Dion wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> So what free anti-virus software are people using these days?
> 

Linux :-)


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 30 08:35:38 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 05:35:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] OT win antivirus
In-Reply-To: <4C7AFF4D.5040609@gmail.com>
References: <4C7AFF4D.5040609@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <695990.51722.qm@web37907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I have to say there are some things worth paying for and that would be to optain 
resources to protect your business and private resources. 


Then I HAVE to use a MS Windows pc I get something to protect my data and 
resources from intrusion.

As a secuity measure I do select Linux for many reasons one of them being 
security. It is a good idea to put Linux on your Internet facing resources.

David C. Lane



________________________________
From: Bob Dion <rmdion at gmail.com>
To: mdlug at mdlug.org
Sent: Sun, August 29, 2010 8:46:05 PM
Subject: [mdlug] OT win antivirus

Hi All,

So what free anti-virus software are people using these days?

Thanks, Bob
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      

From elcarew at sbcglobal.net  Mon Aug 30 09:33:49 2010
From: elcarew at sbcglobal.net (Evan Carew)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 09:33:49 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Cross-platform GUI suggestions
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E037054AC0D3@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E037054AC0D3@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <4C7BB33D.1030402@sbcglobal.net>

Ray,

I've written 2 commercial apps in Qt. One before it was free, and the
other after. Both apps were reasonably large and in both cases, some of
the development was done on MS Windows, and some on Linux. In the more
recent case, I couldn't really tell which platform I was developing on,
the level of integration was that good.

Of late, I've been doing a lot of web development, and decided to do my
latest app just to see how the two deployment models compared. I have to
say, with the issue of cross platform compatibility off the table (with
the exception of packaging), I'm wondering when we will start seeing
more applications being developed in the "older" client server model.
Developing an application with only one solution space is such a
peaceful experience.

Evan

On 08/26/2010 08:49 AM, Ingles, Raymond wrote:
> I'm planning on writing an app, potentially commercial, that needs to
> run on Windows, Macs, and Linux. GUI development hasn't been my thing,
> so I'm wondering... does anyone have any good suggestions for relatively
> easy cross-platform GUI development tools? Ideally one that provides
> "native look and feel" without too much fussing around?
>
> Any suggestions (or warnings!) welcome...
>
>  Ray Ingles                                               (313) 227-2317
>
>  "When you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer;
>           superstition ain't the way..." - Stevie Wonder
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>   



From elcarew at sbcglobal.net  Mon Aug 30 09:36:56 2010
From: elcarew at sbcglobal.net (Evan Carew)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 09:36:56 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Apache and Config for files outside of www dir
In-Reply-To: <4C7597CA.5030606@bellsouth.net>
References: <20100810.102733.3861.0@webmail23.vgs.untd.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE469022FDBADB1@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4C750C7A.3060902@sbcglobal.net>
	<AANLkTimdeqx1-nmkdk1-AyrNpQkBLbXnteCx_NtzsV8D@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=WO5PvDhhKjQ4-N6TVjE=ws6iBmzUFe7igsQLN@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C7597CA.5030606@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <4C7BB3F8.1070106@sbcglobal.net>

Yep, tried that. Didn't work. I'm wondering if the SE Linux settings
were getting in the way?

Evan

On 08/25/2010 06:23 PM, Dr. Robert Meier wrote:
> Rich, Evan, Greg, ...
>
>   
>>> On Aug 25, 2010 8:35 AM, "Evan Carew" <elcarew at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>       
>>>> Much like the originator of this thread,
>>>> I wanted to do web development outside of /var/www,
>>>> in this case, my /home/me/Projects directory.
>>>> I was under the impression that I could use soft links, or aliases, but nothing worked.
>>>>         
> Symlink references cannot be integrity checked directly by apache
> (The file name "/home/projects" and the delivered content can be
> checked but not the intermediate contents.).
>
> Consequently apache won't follow symlinks by default.
>
> In concert with other features "Options FollowSymlinks" can direct the
> server to use symlinks.
>
> 	---- /etc/apache2/httpd.conf.local ----
> ...
> # Prepared Presentations
> Alias /presentations/ "/home/presenter/presentations/speeches/"
>
> <Directory "/home/presenter/presentations/speeches">
>  Options Indexes MultiViews FollowSymLinks
>  AllowOverride None
>  Order allow,deny
>  Allow from all
> </Directory>
> ...
> 	---- /etc/apache2/httpd.conf.local ----
>
>   
[snip]


From billings at negate.org  Mon Aug 30 09:41:16 2010
From: billings at negate.org (Jonathan Billings)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 09:41:16 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Apache and Config for files outside of www dir
In-Reply-To: <4C7BB3F8.1070106@sbcglobal.net>
References: <20100810.102733.3861.0@webmail23.vgs.untd.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE469022FDBADB1@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4C750C7A.3060902@sbcglobal.net>
	<AANLkTimdeqx1-nmkdk1-AyrNpQkBLbXnteCx_NtzsV8D@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=WO5PvDhhKjQ4-N6TVjE=ws6iBmzUFe7igsQLN@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C7597CA.5030606@bellsouth.net> <4C7BB3F8.1070106@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <20100830134115.GC13145@caen-gx755.engin.umich.edu>

On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 09:36:56AM -0400, Evan Carew wrote:
>
> Yep, tried that. Didn't work. I'm wondering if the SE Linux settings
> were getting in the way?

I know on RHEL and Fedora, if you've got the auditd daemon running,
you can watch /var/log/audit/audit.log when you're hitting the web
page to see if SELinux is the root cause.

-- 
Jonathan Billings <billings at negate.org>


From elcarew at sbcglobal.net  Mon Aug 30 09:41:58 2010
From: elcarew at sbcglobal.net (Evan Carew)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 09:41:58 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Apache and Config for files outside of www dir
In-Reply-To: <20100826123956.GA13145@caen-gx755.engin.umich.edu>
References: <20100810.102733.3861.0@webmail23.vgs.untd.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE469022FDBADB1@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4C750C7A.3060902@sbcglobal.net>
	<20100826123956.GA13145@caen-gx755.engin.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <4C7BB526.4000002@sbcglobal.net>

Jonathan,

I think you've got it. Since I'm developing, and only accessing the
server from localhost, security isn't a concern. I suspect that there
are a lot of use cases for developers just like this, where the
developer simply gives up because he/she can't make it work out of the
box. I nearly gave up on FC linux in this case. For reasons related to
PPtP, I may be switching to Ubuntu anyway as their implementation works
much better than the FC equivalent. If Ubuntu gives me the same amount
of trouble as I got from FC11, I may be switching to Mac some time in 2011.

Evan

On 08/26/2010 08:39 AM, Jonathan Billings wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 08:28:42AM -0400, Evan Carew wrote:
>   
>> ... I had trouble getting my new FC11 laptop config to work ...
>>     
> Since you mentioned Fedora, I suspect the thing you were getting hung
> up with was SELinux.  Fedora releases Apache and SELinux
> configurations that are pretty locked down, denying the httpd
> processes to read files, execute binaries and bind to ports outside of
> a specific context.  This really helps secure the system, but at the
> cost of confusing people who have been running web servers for a long
> time.  Most likely, by moving the files into NFS, you changed the
> SELinux attributes of the files you were reading to type nfs_t, which
> means you probably have enabled http->nfs access, so the SELinux
> boolean had httpd_use_nfs --> on.  Check out the getsebool and
> setsebool man pages.
>
> Unfortunately, a lot of people simply turn off SELinux when they
> encounter it, which is unfortunate, because it can really save your
> bacon if someone discovers a way to make your web server divulge
> information it's not intended.  SELinux is powerful, but there has yet
> to be a particularly user-friendly interface.
>
>   



From billings at negate.org  Mon Aug 30 09:55:30 2010
From: billings at negate.org (Jonathan Billings)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 09:55:30 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Apache and Config for files outside of www dir
In-Reply-To: <4C7BB526.4000002@sbcglobal.net>
References: <20100810.102733.3861.0@webmail23.vgs.untd.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE469022FDBADB1@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4C750C7A.3060902@sbcglobal.net>
	<20100826123956.GA13145@caen-gx755.engin.umich.edu>
	<4C7BB526.4000002@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <20100830135530.GD13145@caen-gx755.engin.umich.edu>

On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 09:41:58AM -0400, Evan Carew wrote:
>
> Jonathan,
> 
> I think you've got it. Since I'm developing, and only accessing the
> server from localhost, security isn't a concern. I suspect that there
> are a lot of use cases for developers just like this, where the
> developer simply gives up because he/she can't make it work out of the
> box. I nearly gave up on FC linux in this case. For reasons related to
> PPtP, I may be switching to Ubuntu anyway as their implementation works
> much better than the FC equivalent. If Ubuntu gives me the same amount
> of trouble as I got from FC11, I may be switching to Mac some time in 2011.

Well, Ubuntu uses Yet Another Linux Security/Auditing layer called
AppArmor, which has it's own way of doing things too.

-- 
Jonathan Billings <billings at negate.org>


From radkins at impelind.com  Mon Aug 30 11:06:54 2010
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins II)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 11:06:54 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT win antivirus
In-Reply-To: <4C7AFF4D.5040609@gmail.com>
References: <4C7AFF4D.5040609@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F772CFDFB9964BAE97313F4C4B9C3587@Delta7>

On my home machines, I have been using Avast!

It's an excellent AV engine and has caught things a handful of times.
(Website attacks wherein a adserver has been hacked and is attempting to
push trojans out via banner ads for the most part.)


--

Regards,
Robert 
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Bob Dion
> Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 8:46 PM
> To: mdlug at mdlug.org
> Subject: [mdlug] OT win antivirus
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> So what free anti-virus software are people using these days?
> 
> Thanks, Bob
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 



From carl at carltm.com  Mon Aug 30 12:26:21 2010
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 12:26:21 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] anyone going the OLF?
Message-ID: <48d5cb7c3f554fe051f56dc606505091.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

Just wondering if anyone else is planning to go.

http://ohiolinux.org/

c




From awilliam at opengroupware.us  Mon Aug 30 13:34:14 2010
From: awilliam at opengroupware.us (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 13:34:14 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] anyone going the OLF?
In-Reply-To: <48d5cb7c3f554fe051f56dc606505091.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
References: <48d5cb7c3f554fe051f56dc606505091.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <1283189654.7544.8.camel@linux-yu4c.site>

On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 12:26 -0400, Carl T. Miller wrote:
> Just wondering if anyone else is planning to go.
> http://ohiolinux.org/

+1  BTW, registration closes 2010-09-01.



From carl at carltm.com  Mon Aug 30 15:33:03 2010
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 15:33:03 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] anyone going the OLF?
In-Reply-To: <1283189654.7544.8.camel@linux-yu4c.site>
References: <48d5cb7c3f554fe051f56dc606505091.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
	<1283189654.7544.8.camel@linux-yu4c.site>
Message-ID: <61b47bbd3b06d51a1672c26804964d66.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 12:26 -0400, Carl T. Miller wrote:
>> Just wondering if anyone else is planning to go.
>> http://ohiolinux.org/
>
> +1  BTW, registration closes 2010-09-01.


Adam, there's a free one day workshop being presented by
Zenoss.  If you're interested I'll send you registration
details.  It's on Friday, so it would conflict if you're
signed up for OLFU.

c




From blubdog at gmail.com  Tue Aug 31 08:57:27 2010
From: blubdog at gmail.com (Bruce Smith)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 08:57:27 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT win antivirus
In-Reply-To: <F772CFDFB9964BAE97313F4C4B9C3587@Delta7>
References: <4C7AFF4D.5040609@gmail.com>
	<F772CFDFB9964BAE97313F4C4B9C3587@Delta7>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=TqswEN1-bzzX56YYiasUggeUq_uzH-ZhxH1Xz@mail.gmail.com>

>> So what free anti-virus software are people using these days?

I did a informal speed comparison among free AV software in my Windows
VM's (just by feel, no real benchmarking software).

It appears to me that Microsoft Security Essentials runs the fastest
by far (i.e. slowed down the system the least).

I also know some Windows geeks, and a guy who does Windows PC helpdesk
professionally, who have switched from AVG and Avira to M$ Security
Essentials.  Also M$SE has no ads.

Someday I need to research commercial AV software.  I'd also be very
interested in a detailed comparison of what extra features are added
in commercial AV products.

?- BS


From rjclay at gmail.com  Tue Aug 31 12:09:19 2010
From: rjclay at gmail.com (Robert J. Clay)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 12:09:19 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT win antivirus
In-Reply-To: <4C7AFF4D.5040609@gmail.com>
References: <4C7AFF4D.5040609@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimrx8e+pr3Xc8ASYoAhyBaj2vHv5dKhn3HNH4AB@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 8:46 PM, Bob Dion <rmdion at gmail.com> wrote:
> So what free anti-virus software are people using these days?

   On MS Windows?   Currently;  clamwin, ClamAV for Windows.  (www.clamwin.com).





-- 
Robert J. Clay
rjclay at gmail.com


From awilliam at opengroupware.us  Tue Aug 31 13:31:09 2010
From: awilliam at opengroupware.us (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 13:31:09 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT win antivirus
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimrx8e+pr3Xc8ASYoAhyBaj2vHv5dKhn3HNH4AB@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4C7AFF4D.5040609@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimrx8e+pr3Xc8ASYoAhyBaj2vHv5dKhn3HNH4AB@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1283275869.3512.4.camel@linux-yu4c.site>

On Tue, 2010-08-31 at 12:09 -0400, Robert J. Clay wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 8:46 PM, Bob Dion <rmdion at gmail.com> wrote:
> > So what free anti-virus software are people using these days?
> On MS Windows?   Currently;  clamwin, ClamAV for Windows.  (www.clamwin.com).

+1 We use CLAMAV.  It starts a scan every night [via the very lame
Windows schedular] and if it finds anything [watch ERRORLEVEL (exit
status] it uses blat to send an e-mail.  Then we recall the machine and
reinstall it.



From not_email at comcast.net  Mon Aug  2 14:01:02 2010
From: not_email at comcast.net (Not Email)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2010 14:01:02 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Cheap Netbook
Message-ID: <1280772062.17695.18.camel@localhost>


Gib/All,

One suggestion: Be careful which one of these you get.  Some of them are
not easy to modify for Linux etc.  And specifications from Chinese goods
are most often less then accurate, (aka fictitious).

I have received the netbook, from a company in New York), and have Linux
installed and working.  It is a distribution of Debian ARM based on the
Android kernel.  There are numerous links and the like that would be
worth saving you time should you wish to build.  I will be on IRC over
the next week (handle DiveMichigan), during the day to share my results
as they are ongoing.  I currently have the following installed and
working from an SDHC 2Gb card:

1. ssh - both client and server (sshd).  Server is being a little shy
after other things have been installed.  I need to look at the problem.

2) Apache2 - runs well I have a few pages and can run it locally as we
discussed at the last meeting (time to install and set up under 15
minutes).  Used old pages I had and created 1 page with a note to you
all on it.  I may set it up on one of my IPs so you can get to it
remotely.

3) X11-Xwindows with 3 window managers, XWM, DWM, and Fluxbox (I also
installed X11 fonts, and X11 Auth).  I run it with startx rather then
booting into the X windows manager for everything at the moment.

I am working on more stuff since I have a little extra space on the 2Gb
SDMC card.

Robin



From gib at juno.com  Mon Aug  2 17:20:35 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 21:20:35 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  Cheap Netbook
Message-ID: <20100802.172035.18367.1@webmail07.vgs.untd.com>

Sounds cool. You should bring that to one of the meetings (either mug.org or mdlug.org) so we can get a look at it.

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Not Email <not_email at comcast.net>
To: mdlug at mdlug.org
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Cheap Netbook
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2010 14:01:02 -0400



Gib/All,

One suggestion: Be careful which one of these you get.  Some of them are
not easy to modify for Linux etc.  And specifications from Chinese goods
are most often less then accurate, (aka fictitious).

I have received the netbook, from a company in New York), and have Linux
installed and working.  It is a distribution of Debian ARM based on the
Android kernel.  There are numerous links and the like that would be
worth saving you time should you wish to build.  I will be on IRC over
the next week (handle DiveMichigan), during the day to share my results
as they are ongoing.  I currently have the following installed and
working from an SDHC 2Gb card:

1. ssh - both client and server (sshd).  Server is being a little shy
after other things have been installed.  I need to look at the problem.

2) Apache2 - runs well I have a few pages and can run it locally as we
discussed at the last meeting (time to install and set up under 15
minutes).  Used old pages I had and created 1 page with a note to you
all on it.  I may set it up on one of my IPs so you can get to it
remotely.

3) X11-Xwindows with 3 window managers, XWM, DWM, and Fluxbox (I also
installed X11 fonts, and X11 Auth).  I run it with startx rather then
booting into the X windows manager for everything at the moment.

I am working on more stuff since I have a little extra space on the 2Gb
SDMC card.

Robin

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


____________________________________________________________
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Our last pick exploded 2547% - Join our free newsletter today!
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From cymed2 at yahoo.com  Thu Aug  5 14:15:01 2010
From: cymed2 at yahoo.com (Ching-Yi Hsieh)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 11:15:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] my laptop can't mount my file system (SuSE 11.1)
Message-ID: <913641.88150.qm@web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hello everyone,
My laptop can't mount the file system. The message  showed "fsck failed. Please 
repair manually any reboot." Please give me  some advice how to deal with it. 
Thanks a lot.

Ching-Yi


      


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Aug  5 14:57:29 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 14:57:29 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] my laptop can't mount my file system (SuSE 11.1)
In-Reply-To: <913641.88150.qm@web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <913641.88150.qm@web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTim5wu=9c-eC94Sa1GHzijLQExBDq8JDcCokg0Ln@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 2:15 PM, Ching-Yi Hsieh <cymed2 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> My laptop can't mount the file system. The message ?showed "fsck failed. Please
> repair manually any reboot." Please give me ?some advice how to deal with it.

Boot a LiveCD (or USB), preferably the same distribution/version you
have installed.  Open a terminal and login as root ("sudo su" on
Ubuntu).  Then run fsck against the drive partiton (probably located
at /dev/sda1 or sdb1 or something).  Read the fsck manual page first
("man fsck").  You will probably want the -p option but it depends on
the problem and filesystem type.


From cymed2 at yahoo.com  Thu Aug  5 17:07:29 2010
From: cymed2 at yahoo.com (Ching-Yi Hsieh)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 14:07:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] my laptop can't mount my file system (SuSE 11.1)
	Urgent!!
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTim5wu=9c-eC94Sa1GHzijLQExBDq8JDcCokg0Ln@mail.gmail.com>
References: <913641.88150.qm@web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<AANLkTim5wu=9c-eC94Sa1GHzijLQExBDq8JDcCokg0Ln@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <407963.66577.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hello,
I put LiveCD in CD drive. It loaded Linux kernel directly and entered to the 
pre-installation interface. However, I don't want to re-install, but want to fix 
my problems. Now it is getting worse. I can't log in the root to do anything. 
Please give me some advice. This is urgent. I am willing to pay the labor fee to 
any of you to help me this. Thanks a lot.

Ching-Yi





________________________________
From: Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Thu, August 5, 2010 2:57:29 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] my laptop can't mount my file system (SuSE 11.1)

On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 2:15 PM, Ching-Yi Hsieh <cymed2 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> My laptop can't mount the file system. The message  showed "fsck failed. 
Please
> repair manually any reboot." Please give me  some advice how to deal with it.

Boot a LiveCD (or USB), preferably the same distribution/version you
have installed.  Open a terminal and login as root ("sudo su" on
Ubuntu).  Then run fsck against the drive partiton (probably located
at /dev/sda1 or sdb1 or something).  Read the fsck manual page first
("man fsck").  You will probably want the -p option but it depends on
the problem and filesystem type.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      


From carl at carltm.com  Thu Aug  5 17:39:57 2010
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 17:39:57 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] my laptop can't mount my file system (SuSE 11.1)
 Urgent!!
In-Reply-To: <407963.66577.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <913641.88150.qm@web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<AANLkTim5wu=9c-eC94Sa1GHzijLQExBDq8JDcCokg0Ln@mail.gmail.com>
	<407963.66577.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7b971b4ef4660322d0a3ef663b9e2e3c.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

Ching-Yi Hsieh wrote:
> Hello,
> I put LiveCD in CD drive. It loaded Linux kernel directly and entered to
> the
> pre-installation interface. However, I don't want to re-install, but want
> to fix
> my problems. Now it is getting worse. I can't log in the root to do
> anything.
> Please give me some advice. This is urgent. I am willing to pay the labor
> fee to
> any of you to help me this. Thanks a lot.

Hi Ching-Yi,

Have you tried typing "sudo su -" after booting from the LiveCD?
That might get you root access so you can work on the drive.

If that doesn't work, you might want to download the System Rescue
CD.  http://www.sysresccd.org/Download

Once you have a root shell, you'll want to run "fdisk -l" to make
sure the disk partitions appear correctly.  Then run "fsck -y /dev/XXX"
for each of the Linux partitions.

If the fdisk command doesn't show that you have good partitions,
you might want to get an expert to look at it.

c




From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Aug  5 17:48:39 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 17:48:39 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] my laptop can't mount my file system (SuSE 11.1)
	Urgent!!
In-Reply-To: <407963.66577.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <913641.88150.qm@web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<AANLkTim5wu=9c-eC94Sa1GHzijLQExBDq8JDcCokg0Ln@mail.gmail.com>
	<407963.66577.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikTK9xEHvd5brFYcoo+V3NjUbLTwCyduDME87Bf@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Ching-Yi Hsieh <cymed2 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hello,
> I put LiveCD in CD drive. It loaded Linux kernel directly and entered to the
> pre-installation interface. However, I don't want to re-install, but want to fix
> my problems. Now it is getting worse. I can't log in the root to do anything.
> Please give me some advice. This is urgent. I am willing to pay the labor fee to
> any of you to help me this. Thanks a lot.

What distribution of Linux are you using?  Ubuntu should boot have a
"Try" button which runs off of the CD.  I'm not sure about other
distros.


From drew4096 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  6 05:21:23 2010
From: drew4096 at gmail.com (Drew)
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2010 05:21:23 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] my laptop can't mount my file system (SuSE 11.1)
 Urgent!!
In-Reply-To: <407963.66577.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <913641.88150.qm@web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<AANLkTim5wu=9c-eC94Sa1GHzijLQExBDq8JDcCokg0Ln@mail.gmail.com>
	<407963.66577.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20100806051644.02a0ae70@pop.gmail.com>

At 05:07 PM 8/5/10, Ching-Yi Hsieh wrote:
>Hello,
>I put LiveCD in CD drive. It loaded Linux kernel directly and entered to the
>pre-installation interface. However, I don't want to re-install, but 
>want to fix
>my problems. Now it is getting worse. I can't log in the root to do anything.
>Please give me some advice. This is urgent. I am willing to pay the 
>labor fee to
>any of you to help me this. Thanks a lot.

Try a different Live CD, one that's meant to be a rescue disk. 
Myself, I've had success
with RIPLinux and Insert.

----

- Drew.



From tony at bemushosting.com  Fri Aug  6 08:15:55 2010
From: tony at bemushosting.com (tony at bemushosting.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 08:15:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] New Website Live!
In-Reply-To: <1280437036.2004.8.camel@bemus-remote>
References: <1280413144.26773.8.camel@bemus-remote>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1007291430320.4443@banana.sluggo.net>
	<1280431682.2004.3.camel@bemus-remote>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1007291548040.1867@banana.sluggo.net>
	<1280434708.2004.7.camel@bemus-remote>
	<1280437036.2004.8.camel@bemus-remote>
Message-ID: <1999625524.187411.1281096955635.JavaMail.open-xchange@oxusltgw11.schlund.de>

Ive made the new website live!? Please let me know if you have any problems.
I have made symlinks to the old website to try to make it backward compatable.?
?
Tony Bemus
MDLug.org webmaster


From petertheplumber at att.net  Fri Aug  6 08:40:09 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 08:40:09 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Used HP Printer Free
Message-ID: <20100806084009.390a42f6@Nokia-N800-43-7>

    Free to good home. HP C2009A printer w/10base-T jetdirect card.
    Manufactured date stamp August 1994 TR1. If anyone wants this I'll
    dumpster dive for it. It's dry on top of bagged construction debris
    and under a roof. No other warranties implied.

-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber
Sent from a mobile Internet Tablet


From petertheplumber at att.net  Fri Aug  6 08:56:45 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 08:56:45 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Used HP Printer Free
In-Reply-To: <20100806084009.390a42f6@Nokia-N800-43-7>
References: <20100806084009.390a42f6@Nokia-N800-43-7>
Message-ID: <20100806085645.79b9c95b@Nokia-N800-43-7>

On Fri, 6 Aug 2010 08:40:09 -0400
Peter Bart <petertheplumber at att.net> wrote:

>     Free to good home. HP C2009A printer w/10base-T jetdirect card.
>     Manufactured date stamp August 1994 TR1. If anyone wants this I'll
>     dumpster dive for it. It's dry on top of bagged construction
> debris and under a roof. No other warranties implied.
> 

    I should mention this is in a very tony section of Birmingham on old Woodward. I just liberated a Viewsonic flatscreen HDTV from the same pile in with a box for a new set and a bunch of moving boxes. FWIW

-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber
Sent from a mobile Internet Tablet


From gib at juno.com  Fri Aug  6 11:18:10 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 15:18:10 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  New Website Live!
Message-ID: <20100806.111810.24510.4@webmail22.vgs.untd.com>

Wow. Way cool.
I like the like the statement in the upper right about freedom and such.  Did you make that up?


---------- Original Message ----------
From: "tony at bemushosting.com" <tony at bemushosting.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: [mdlug] New Website Live!
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 08:15:55 -0400 (EDT)

Ive made the new website live!  Please let me know if you have any problems.
I have made symlinks to the old website to try to make it backward compatable. 
 
Tony Bemus
MDLug.org webmaster
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
____________________________________________________________
Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance
If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4c5c27f48fb435b4f4bst06vuc


From gib at juno.com  Fri Aug  6 11:20:15 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 15:20:15 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] my laptop can't mount my file system (SuSE 11.1) Urgent!!
Message-ID: <20100806.112015.24510.5@webmail22.vgs.untd.com>

I wish someone would do a presentation on this fix-it-disk thing.

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Carl T. Miller" <carl at carltm.com>
To: "MDLUG's Main discussion list" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: Re: [mdlug] my laptop can't mount my file system (SuSE 11.1) Urgent!!
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 17:39:57 -0400

Ching-Yi Hsieh wrote:
> Hello,
> I put LiveCD in CD drive. It loaded Linux kernel directly and entered to
> the
> pre-installation interface. However, I don't want to re-install, but want
> to fix
> my problems. Now it is getting worse. I can't log in the root to do
> anything.
> Please give me some advice. This is urgent. I am willing to pay the labor
> fee to
> any of you to help me this. Thanks a lot.

Hi Ching-Yi,

Have you tried typing "sudo su -" after booting from the LiveCD?
That might get you root access so you can work on the drive.

If that doesn't work, you might want to download the System Rescue
CD.  http://www.sysresccd.org/Download

Once you have a root shell, you'll want to run "fdisk -l" to make
sure the disk partitions appear correctly.  Then run "fsck -y /dev/XXX"
for each of the Linux partitions.

If the fdisk command doesn't show that you have good partitions,
you might want to get an expert to look at it.

c


_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
____________________________________________________________
Mortgage Rates Hit 3.25%
If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4c5c286f403355b5088st06vuc


From tesral at wowway.com  Fri Aug  6 11:15:28 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2010 11:15:28 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] New Website Live!
In-Reply-To: <1999625524.187411.1281096955635.JavaMail.open-xchange@oxusltgw11.schlund.de>
References: <1280413144.26773.8.camel@bemus-remote>	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1007291430320.4443@banana.sluggo.net>	<1280431682.2004.3.camel@bemus-remote>	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1007291548040.1867@banana.sluggo.net>	<1280434708.2004.7.camel@bemus-remote>	<1280437036.2004.8.camel@bemus-remote>
	<1999625524.187411.1281096955635.JavaMail.open-xchange@oxusltgw11.schlund.de>
Message-ID: <4C5C2710.80501@wowway.com>

tony at bemushosting.com wrote:
> Ive made the new website live!  Please let me know if you have any problems.
> I have made symlinks to the old website to try to make it backward compatable. 
>  
>   

So far looks good.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Those persons, or societies, easily offended need to be offended until they get over it.
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From tesral at wowway.com  Fri Aug  6 11:19:51 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2010 11:19:51 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Fic it disk.
In-Reply-To: <20100806.112015.24510.5@webmail22.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20100806.112015.24510.5@webmail22.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <4C5C2817.80408@wowway.com>

gib at juno.com wrote:
> I wish someone would do a presentation on this fix-it-disk thing.
>   

OK what is fix-it disk?

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Those persons, or societies, easily offended need to be offended until they get over it.
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From tony at bemushosting.com  Fri Aug  6 12:02:05 2010
From: tony at bemushosting.com (Tony Bemus)
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2010 12:02:05 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] New Website Live!
In-Reply-To: <20100806.111810.24510.4@webmail22.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20100806.111810.24510.4@webmail22.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <1281110525.2401.0.camel@tony-laptop>

Yes,  I did.

Tony


On Fri, 2010-08-06 at 15:18 +0000, gib at juno.com wrote:
> Wow. Way cool.
> I like the like the statement in the upper right about freedom and such.  Did you make that up?
> 
> 
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: "tony at bemushosting.com" <tony at bemushosting.com>
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Subject: [mdlug] New Website Live!
> Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 08:15:55 -0400 (EDT)
> 
> Ive made the new website live!  Please let me know if you have any problems.
> I have made symlinks to the old website to try to make it backward compatable. 
>  
> Tony Bemus
> MDLug.org webmaster
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> ____________________________________________________________
> Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance
> If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4c5c27f48fb435b4f4bst06vuc
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




From gib at juno.com  Fri Aug  6 13:51:32 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 17:51:32 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  New Website Live!
Message-ID: <20100806.135132.12475.1@webmail03.vgs.untd.com>

Cool . . . I want it on a t-shirt.

I clicked on the link for the ". . . more details" for the quote and you mispelled "novice". This is on the contact page:
http://mdlug.org/contact.html
If you need help with your linux problems the best way to contact the MDLug or the members is through our Mailling lists. We have lists that range from novis to experianced users and problems. We even have a list for General Discussions and non-linux related topics. 

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Tony Bemus <tony at bemushosting.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: Re: [mdlug] New Website Live!
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2010 12:02:05 -0400

Yes,  I did.

Tony


On Fri, 2010-08-06 at 15:18 +0000, gib at juno.com wrote:
> Wow. Way cool.
> I like the like the statement in the upper right about freedom and such.  Did you make that up?
> 
> 
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: "tony at bemushosting.com" <tony at bemushosting.com>
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Subject: [mdlug] New Website Live!
> Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 08:15:55 -0400 (EDT)
> 
> Ive made the new website live!  Please let me know if you have any problems.
> I have made symlinks to the old website to try to make it backward compatable. 
>  
> Tony Bemus
> MDLug.org webmaster
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> ____________________________________________________________
> Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance
> If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4c5c27f48fb435b4f4bst06vuc
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From gib at juno.com  Fri Aug  6 15:26:11 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 19:26:11 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] Your Design "mdlugorg" at CustomInk.com
Message-ID: <20100806.152611.26479.0@webmail05.vgs.untd.com>

New t-shirt.  I didn't have a copy of the logo . . .

---------- Forwarded Message ----------
From: "CustomInk.com" <service at customink.com>
To: gib at juno.com
Subject: Your Design "mdlugorg" at CustomInk.com
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 13:56:51 -0400

Your First Design: "mdlugorg"
Product: Gildan Ultra Cotton TRetrieve this Design Edit or Buy this Design Share this design onFacebook orTwitterFrom CustomInk you'll always get:Free Design & Art Help
Our artists review every design for sizing, contrast, alignment and more.We Take Deadlines Seriously
Fast, free shipping with a guaranteed delivery date.Quality Guaranteed
We're so sure you'll love your order, we stand behind it with a money-back guarantee.Hassle-Free Uploads
Trust us with your design or logo &ndash; we promise a great print!Real People, Real Service
Call for anything &ndash; really! We're here to help 7 days a week.No Surprises
We'll send you a picture proof email of your final design on all orders of 6 or more.We hope you enjoyed designing at CustomInk. Please visit us again soon!Retrieve this Design Edit or Buy this Design
Need help with a design, getting a quote, or finding the right sizes?Talk to a Real Person:
1-800-293-4232
Mon-Fri: 9am - 9:30pm ET
Sat-Sun: 10am - 6pm ET 
Email:
service at customink.com

A helpful rep will get back to you ASAP.Our Story | Contact Us | Uncensored Reviews | Money-Back Guarantee | Ink of the Week
____________________________________________________________
Project Management Cert
Villanova PMP&#174 & CAPM&#174 Classes. Average Salary For PMPs is $100K
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4c5c6200655ed5a261fst03vuc


From gib at juno.com  Fri Aug  6 15:30:31 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 19:30:31 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  Fix it disk. - system rescue disk
Message-ID: <20100806.153031.26479.2@webmail05.vgs.untd.com>

I was just using non-specific wording. I was refering to the email that talked about the system rescue disk:

 
http://www.sysresccd.org/Download


---------- Original Message ----------
From: Garry Stahl <tesral at wowway.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: [mdlug] Fic it disk.
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2010 11:19:51 -0400

gib at juno.com wrote:
> I wish someone would do a presentation on this fix-it-disk thing.
>   

OK what is fix-it disk?

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Those persons, or societies, easily offended need to be offended until they get over it.
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
____________________________________________________________
TVs $20.38? Laptops $17.54?
Special Report: Shocking Auctions - iPads $13, iPhones $9, Cameras $8
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4c5c633196a352682dcst05vuc


From micorral at comcast.net  Fri Aug  6 15:46:20 2010
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 15:46:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] New Website Live!
In-Reply-To: <20100806.135132.12475.1@webmail03.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20100806.135132.12475.1@webmail03.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.1008061532260.4500@banana.sluggo.net>

2010-08-06, Monsieur gib at juno.com a ecrit:
> I clicked on the link for the ". . . more details" for the quote and you
> mispelled "novice". This is on the contact page:
> http://mdlug.org/contact.html

That wasn't the only *misspelled* (note the double s :) word. I've put
the corrections in square brackets:

> If you need help with your linux[Linux] problems the best way to contact
> the MDLug[MDLUG] or the members is through our Mailling[mailing] lists.
> We have lists that range from novis[novice] to experianced[experienced]
> users and problems. We even have a list for General Discussions and
> non-linux[Linux] related topics.

There are some additional errors on the rest of that page.

Some of this is easy to catch with a spell-checker, like aspell:

aspell -H check myfile.html

Tony really should run each HTML file through aspell.

Michael


From tesral at wowway.com  Fri Aug  6 17:03:43 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2010 17:03:43 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] New Website Live!
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.00.1008061532260.4500@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <20100806.135132.12475.1@webmail03.vgs.untd.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1008061532260.4500@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <4C5C78AF.1010605@wowway.com>

Michael Corral wrote:
>
> Tony really should run each HTML file through aspell.
>   
Have you ever run a raw HTML file through a spell checker?

I have the KDE spell checker turned on.  It's useful.


-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Those persons, or societies, easily offended need to be offended until they get over it.
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  6 18:18:55 2010
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 18:18:55 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Fic it disk.
In-Reply-To: <4C5C2817.80408@wowway.com>
References: <20100806.112015.24510.5@webmail22.vgs.untd.com>
	<4C5C2817.80408@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTik4FLhj604U-B9r2rjUvNfFSJUihL312AGs09ek@mail.gmail.com>

--- Garry Stahl wrote:

> gib at juno.com wrote:

>> I wish someone would do a presentation on this fix-it-disk thing.
> OK what is fix-it disk?

"System Rescue CD" is one.  The "Universal Boot CD" is another.  The
"Trinity Rescue Kit" is yet another.  They are all Linux-based
multi-purpose CDs with utilities that are useful for Windows, Linux,
or BSD systems, including some utilities that are specific to Windows.
 I would also include the Windows-based "Bart PE"  CD, though that one
is Windows-only.

System Rescue CD: http://www.sysresccd.org
Ultimate Boot CD: http://www.ultimatebootcd.com
Trinity Rescue Kit: <http://trinityhome.org/Home/index.php?wpid=1&front_id=12>

I use all four, to good effect.

~~ Michael Rudas
?? My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
?? My software blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com
?? My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/protop
?? http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey


From micorral at comcast.net  Sat Aug  7 01:44:57 2010
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 01:44:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] New Website Live!
In-Reply-To: <4C5C78AF.1010605@wowway.com>
References: <20100806.135132.12475.1@webmail03.vgs.untd.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1008061532260.4500@banana.sluggo.net>
	<4C5C78AF.1010605@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.1008070139470.5052@banana.sluggo.net>

2010-08-06, Monsieur Garry Stahl a ecrit:
> Michael Corral wrote:
>> Tony really should run each HTML file through aspell.
>>
> Have you ever run a raw HTML file through a spell checker?

Yes, all the time. Have you ever run aspell with the -H option,
as I mentioned in my original reply? :)

Michael


From raymond.s.mclaughlin at gmail.com  Sun Aug  8 17:46:41 2010
From: raymond.s.mclaughlin at gmail.com (Raymond S McLaughlin)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2010 17:46:41 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] New Website Live!
In-Reply-To: <1999625524.187411.1281096955635.JavaMail.open-xchange@oxusltgw11.schlund.de>
References: <1280413144.26773.8.camel@bemus-remote>	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1007291430320.4443@banana.sluggo.net>	<1280431682.2004.3.camel@bemus-remote>	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1007291548040.1867@banana.sluggo.net>	<1280434708.2004.7.camel@bemus-remote>	<1280437036.2004.8.camel@bemus-remote>
	<1999625524.187411.1281096955635.JavaMail.open-xchange@oxusltgw11.schlund.de>
Message-ID: <4C5F25C1.5030609@gmail.com>

tony at bemushosting.com wrote:
> Ive made the new website live!  Please let me know if you have any problems.
> I have made symlinks to the old website to try to make it backward compatable. 
>  
> Tony Bemus
> MDLug.org webmaster

When you moved the information on the old contacts page to the new
about.html you didn't adjust for the different paths to the officers'
pages. I fixed it.

Also I notice that you have turned on directory browsing Previously,
when a browser requested a directory (as opposed to a file) apache was
set up to deliver the index.html in that directory, or else an "Access
Forbidden!" message. I had done this as a privacy matter, to deter
"poking around" Now apache serves up a directory listing. This isn't a
big deal, I was just wondering if this was intentional, and what your
reason was.

Over all the new web site looks great! Good job Tony!

Regards
Raymond McLaughlin
Server Admin MDLUG


From petertheplumber at att.net  Sun Aug  8 20:35:53 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2010 20:35:53 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Help Updating Asus BIOS Using Afudos
Message-ID: <1281314153.4686.137.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

Hi,
	The particular model I have; T91MT; does not come with ez flash or
Linux. Since I blew away Windows in favor of UNR 10.04 I was a little
stuck. But here is what eventually succeeded for me. Download afudos and
the .rom bios file to ~/Downloads. Delete everything else in there or
use another location. Rename the .rom file from T91MT-ASUS-0601 to
T91MT.ROM. Please note use of all upper case.

Either on the system to be updated or another, please note instructions
assume Ubuntu/Debian is used.
>From <http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=318789>  M2: CD with
changes to include afudos. With help from
<http://wiki.eeeuser.com/howto:updatebios#upgrade_mechanisms>, the part
about afudos. Get afudos from here
<http://dlsvr01.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/flash/AFUDOS219.zip>. Alternatively
you can go to
http://support.asus.com/download/download.aspx?SLanguage=en-us, select
Desktop PC/Commercial/T5120 and then Search. Select DOS in the popup
box, expand bios utilities and you'll be able to download a later
version. I'm not sure exactly what part it plays but it's provided by
<http://www.freedos.org/>. I couldn't find just afudos there. Make sure
you don't copy a lot of other stuff into /tmp/cdr you don't want before
you unmount that directory. This may come from the users /home
directory.

code:
wget http://www.fdos.org/bootdisks/autogen/FDOEM.144.gz
gunzip FDOEM.144.gz
mkdir /tmp/cdr
sudo mount -t vfat -o loop FDOEM.144 /tmp/cdr
#sudo cp ~/Downloads/T91MT-ASUS-0601.rom /tmp/cdr
#sudo cp ~/Downloads/AFUDOS.exe /tmp/cdr
sudo cp ~/Downloads/* /tmp/cdr
sudo umount /tmp/cdr
sudo apt-get install mkisofs
mkisofs -o T91MT.iso -b FDOEM.144 FDOEM.144
cdrecord -v T91MT.iso

This should hopefully create a bootable .iso cd. Boot from cd and follow
directions at
http://support.asus.com/technicaldocuments/technicaldocuments_content.aspx?no=546&SLanguage=en-us. 

code:
afudos /iT91MT.ROM

This has fixed my resume problem, which I was inclined to believe it
would not based on Asus's changelog. But there you have it. To get my
Asus to boot from the external cd/dvd drive, during boot enter the bios
(F2), select boot>boot device priority. Make sure the external drive is
listed, esc to exit, exit saving changes (which were none), during
reboot enter boot selection by pressing esc and select the drive.

-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sun Aug  8 23:15:11 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 23:15:11 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Help Updating Asus BIOS Using Afudos
In-Reply-To: <1281314153.4686.137.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
References: <1281314153.4686.137.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikG3okTOqwdjcYBOPCpMhNBdkWk+GkpbqnEGc7p@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 8:35 PM, Peter Bart <petertheplumber at att.net> wrote:
> I'm not sure exactly what part it plays but it's provided by
> <http://www.freedos.org/>.

I have a loopback mounted floppy image of FreeDOS on my server that I
can netboot over PXE.  It's writable so I can just copy the ROM image
and update utility to it and then netboot the target to get a FreeDOS
prompt.  Saves from having to connect a floppy drive to the target.


From petertheplumber at att.net  Mon Aug  9 05:32:59 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 05:32:59 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Help Updating Asus BIOS Using Afudos
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikG3okTOqwdjcYBOPCpMhNBdkWk+GkpbqnEGc7p@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1281314153.4686.137.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
	<AANLkTikG3okTOqwdjcYBOPCpMhNBdkWk+GkpbqnEGc7p@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100809053259.16071e0e@Nokia-N800-43-7>

On Sun, 8 Aug 2010 23:15:11 -0400
Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 8:35 PM, Peter Bart <petertheplumber at att.net>
> wrote:
> > I'm not sure exactly what part it plays but it's provided by
> > <http://www.freedos.org/>.
> 
> I have a loopback mounted floppy image of FreeDOS on my server that I
> can netboot over PXE.  It's writable so I can just copy the ROM image
> and update utility to it and then netboot the target to get a FreeDOS
> prompt.  Saves from having to connect a floppy drive to the target.

Why didn't you say so?!? Make me go through all this by myself ;)

-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber
Sent from a mobile Internet Tablet


From tony at bemushosting.com  Mon Aug  9 07:47:07 2010
From: tony at bemushosting.com (Tony Bemus)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 07:47:07 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] New Website Live!
Message-ID: <0Lllpg-1PHUVx326S-00ZHnZ@mrelay.perfora.net>

I did turn on the directory listing because i made symlinks to the old website, trying to make it particialy backwards compatible.  Do you know of a better way?
Tony Bemus
Sent from my smartphone

-----Original Message-----
From: Raymond S McLaughlin <raymond.s.mclaughlin at gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 5:46 PM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: Re: [mdlug] New Website Live!

tony at bemushosting.com wrote:
> Ive made the new website live!  Please let me know if you have any problems.
> I have made symlinks to the old website to try to make it backward compatable. 
>  
> Tony Bemus
> MDLug.org webmaster

When you moved the information on the old contacts page to the new
about.html you didn't adjust for the different paths to the officers'
pages. I fixed it.

Also I notice that you have turned on directory browsing Previously,
when a browser requested a directory (as opposed to a file) apache was
set up to deliver the index.html in that directory, or else an "Access
Forbidden!" message. I had done this as a privacy matter, to deter
"poking around" Now apache serves up a directory listing. This isn't a
big deal, I was just wondering if this was intentional, and what your
reason was.

Over all the new web site looks great! Good job Tony!

Regards
Raymond McLaughlin
Server Admin MDLUG
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From gib at juno.com  Mon Aug  9 10:31:15 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 14:31:15 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  Help Updating Asus BIOS Using Afudos
Message-ID: <20100809.103115.4363.0@webmail20.vgs.untd.com>

You guys really should come to some of our meetings so you can show us this stuff.

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Peter Bart <petertheplumber at att.net>
To: Metro Detroit Linux Users Group <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Help Updating Asus BIOS Using Afudos
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 05:32:59 -0400

On Sun, 8 Aug 2010 23:15:11 -0400
Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 8:35 PM, Peter Bart <petertheplumber at att.net>
> wrote:
> > I'm not sure exactly what part it plays but it's provided by
> > <http://www.freedos.org/>.
> 
> I have a loopback mounted floppy image of FreeDOS on my server that I
> can netboot over PXE.  It's writable so I can just copy the ROM image
> and update utility to it and then netboot the target to get a FreeDOS
> prompt.  Saves from having to connect a floppy drive to the target.

Why didn't you say so?!? Make me go through all this by myself ;)

-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber
Sent from a mobile Internet Tablet
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
____________________________________________________________
PMP Certification Prep
100% Online PMP Exam Prep course from Villanova University. Learn More.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4c60115cd0adf2c074ast05vuc


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Aug  9 20:19:49 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 20:19:49 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Help Updating Asus BIOS Using Afudos
In-Reply-To: <20100809.103115.4363.0@webmail20.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20100809.103115.4363.0@webmail20.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikj9LMat9Q97XNk20etRya=YB5r2EV5cX+=uy3Z@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 10:31 AM, gib at juno.com <gib at juno.com> wrote:
> You guys really should come to some of our meetings so you can show us this stuff.
>

I need to document it and create a system that is more portable than a
huge server.  I also need to get beyond the Debian-based distros and
get PXE working with some of the others.


From gib at juno.com  Tue Aug 10 10:27:33 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 14:27:33 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] Apache and Config for files outside of www dir
Message-ID: <20100810.102733.3861.0@webmail23.vgs.untd.com>

I'm trying to set up my web server to allow me to have the files on my large drive assessable.  I'm running into what, I assume, is a security issue that someone would be able help with.

I've got the server up and running with current Ubuntu. I've got my large drive with many files. I try setting up soft links to the large drive directory. I don't see why but I can't set up the directory security to allow group and other the read and execute.  

Directory on the small drive:
/var/www
This works fine.

I set up a new directory and set the permissions:
/media/mydrivename/mystuff
I do a soft link:
ln -s /var/www/mystuff  /media/mydrivename/mystuff
The higher level directory "/media/mydrivename" seems to have group and other without read and execute. Repeated attemps to chmod don't seem to resove the issue.
 
 
____________________________________________________________
3 Free Credit Scores
Access Your 2010 Credit Report and Free 3-Bureau Credit Scores Instantly!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4c616228c1eb163e50fst06vuc


From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Tue Aug 10 11:52:29 2010
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 11:52:29 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Apache and Config for files outside of www dir
In-Reply-To: <20100810.102733.3861.0@webmail23.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20100810.102733.3861.0@webmail23.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE469022FDBADB1@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

Instead of creating a soft link, you could, in your httpd.conf, do

Alias /mystuff/ /media/mydrivename/mystuff/

Then you might need a Directory entry for /mystuff/

<Directory /media/mydrivename/mystuff>
   Options Indexes
   AllowOverride None
   Order allow,deny
   Allow from all
</Directory>

You may need to tweak some of the directives in the <Directory></Directory> block, but that should be a relatively straightforward method of doing what you are trying to do.

Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of gib at juno.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 10:28 AM
To: mdlug at mdlug.org
Subject: [mdlug] Apache and Config for files outside of www dir

I'm trying to set up my web server to allow me to have the files on my large drive assessable.  I'm running into what, I assume, is a security issue that someone would be able help with.

I've got the server up and running with current Ubuntu. I've got my large drive with many files. I try setting up soft links to the large drive directory. I don't see why but I can't set up the directory security to allow group and other the read and execute.  

Directory on the small drive:
/var/www
This works fine.

I set up a new directory and set the permissions:
/media/mydrivename/mystuff
I do a soft link:
ln -s /var/www/mystuff  /media/mydrivename/mystuff
The higher level directory "/media/mydrivename" seems to have group and other without read and execute. Repeated attemps to chmod don't seem to resove the issue.
 
 
____________________________________________________________
3 Free Credit Scores
Access Your 2010 Credit Report and Free 3-Bureau Credit Scores Instantly!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4c616228c1eb163e50fst06vuc
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From raymond.s.mclaughlin at gmail.com  Tue Aug 10 15:50:17 2010
From: raymond.s.mclaughlin at gmail.com (Raymond S McLaughlin)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 15:50:17 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] New Website Live!
In-Reply-To: <0Lllpg-1PHUVx326S-00ZHnZ@mrelay.perfora.net>
References: <0Lllpg-1PHUVx326S-00ZHnZ@mrelay.perfora.net>
Message-ID: <4C61AD79.1090102@gmail.com>

Um, symlinks and directory listings are two separate things, afaik. The
old web site was highly dependent on symlinks while directory browsing
was turned off. I appreciate the effort, and it makes little difference.

Also, have you considered adding a counter so we can see just how many
(few) visitors we get?

Keep up the good work

Raymond McLaughlin
Server Admin MDLUG

Tony Bemus wrote:
> I did turn on the directory listing because i made symlinks to the old website, trying to make it particialy backwards compatible.  Do you know of a better way?
> Tony Bemus
> Sent from my smartphone
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Raymond S McLaughlin <raymond.s.mclaughlin at gmail.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 5:46 PM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] New Website Live!
> 
> When you moved the information on the old contacts page to the new
> about.html you didn't adjust for the different paths to the officers'
> pages. I fixed it.
> 
> Also I notice that you have turned on directory browsing Previously,
> when a browser requested a directory (as opposed to a file) apache was
> set up to deliver the index.html in that directory, or else an "Access
> Forbidden!" message. I had done this as a privacy matter, to deter
> "poking around" Now apache serves up a directory listing. This isn't a
> big deal, I was just wondering if this was intentional, and what your
> reason was.
> 
> Over all the new web site looks great! Good job Tony!
> 
> Regards
> Raymond McLaughlin
> Server Admin MDLUG



From tony at bemushosting.com  Tue Aug 10 19:09:57 2010
From: tony at bemushosting.com (Tony Bemus)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 19:09:57 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] New Website Live!
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.00.1008061532260.4500@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <20100806.135132.12475.1@webmail03.vgs.untd.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.1008061532260.4500@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <1281481797.3121.1.camel@tony-laptop>

aspell is great!!  -H worked perfectly!!

Thank You Micheal!

Tony Bemus

On Fri, 2010-08-06 at 15:46 -0400, Michael Corral wrote:
> 2010-08-06, Monsieur gib at juno.com a ecrit:
> > I clicked on the link for the ". . . more details" for the quote and you
> > mispelled "novice". This is on the contact page:
> > http://mdlug.org/contact.html
> 
> That wasn't the only *misspelled* (note the double s :) word. I've put
> the corrections in square brackets:
> 
> > If you need help with your linux[Linux] problems the best way to contact
> > the MDLug[MDLUG] or the members is through our Mailling[mailing] lists.
> > We have lists that range from novis[novice] to experianced[experienced]
> > users and problems. We even have a list for General Discussions and
> > non-linux[Linux] related topics.
> 
> There are some additional errors on the rest of that page.
> 
> Some of this is easy to catch with a spell-checker, like aspell:
> 
> aspell -H check myfile.html
> 
> Tony really should run each HTML file through aspell.
> 
> Michael
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Wed Aug 11 13:31:30 2010
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Dr. Robert Meier)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 13:31:30 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] my laptop can't mount my file system (SuSE
	11.1)	Urgent!!
In-Reply-To: <407963.66577.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <913641.88150.qm@web53307.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<AANLkTim5wu=9c-eC94Sa1GHzijLQExBDq8JDcCokg0Ln@mail.gmail.com>
	<407963.66577.qm@web53303.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4C62DE72.8060305@bellsouth.net>

Ching-Yi,

 >>> On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 2:15 PM, Ching-Yi Hsieh<cymed2 at yahoo.com> 
wrote:
 >>> My laptop can't mount the file system.
 >>> The message  showed
 >>>  "fsck failed.  Please repair manually [and] reboot."
 >>> Please give me  some advice how to deal with it.
 >> On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 2:57:29 PM, Jeff Hanson<jhansonxi at gmail.com> wrote
 >> Boot a LiveCD (or USB),
 >> preferably the same distribution/version you have installed.
 >> Open a terminal and login as root ("sudo su" on > Ubuntu).
 >> Then run fsck against the drive [partition]
 >> (probably located at /dev/sda1 or sdb1 or something).
 >> Read the fsck manual page first ("man fsck").
 >> You will probably want the -p option
 >> but it depends on the problem and filesystem type.
> I put LiveCD in CD drive.
 > It loaded Linux kernel directly and entered to the pre-installation 
interface.
 > However, I don't want to re-install, but want to fix my problems.
 > Now it is getting worse. I can't log in the root to do anything.
> Please give me some advice. This is urgent.
 > I am willing to pay the labor fee to any of you to help me this. 
Thanks a lot.

I suspect the confusion lies in the phrase "Boot a LiveCD",
by which Jeff Hanson meant to use a rescue system.
Most distros include a "LiveCD" (or set of LiveCDs) that allows one to
   demo the distro without installing (usual default)
   install the distro
   self-test the media
   perform computer repair operations

A "LiveCD" used for repair purposes is also known as a "Rescue System".
Some distros use the demo as the rescue system.
Some distros (notably openSuSE) provide a more sophisticated rescue
system on a separate disk.  Some distros (notably TomsRtBoot) are
intended primarily as a rescue system.

If you cannot identify the menu(?) option to use the LiveCD as a rescue
system rather than an install, please identify the distro (e.g. Ubuntu,
Fedora, Mandriva, ...) that you are using, and someone familiar with
that distro should be able to tell you specifically where to find
the option (disk(?) and menu(?)).

Hopefully helpful,
--
Bob

Dr. Robert Meier


From petertheplumber at att.net  Thu Aug 12 09:33:56 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 09:33:56 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Help Updating Asus BIOS Using Afudos
In-Reply-To: <20100809.103115.4363.0@webmail20.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20100809.103115.4363.0@webmail20.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <20100812093356.6783c859@Nokia-N800-43-7>

On Mon, 9 Aug 2010 14:31:15 GMT
"gib at juno.com" <gib at juno.com> wrote:

> You guys really should come to some of our meetings so you can show
> us this stuff.
> 
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: Peter Bart <petertheplumber at att.net>
> To: Metro Detroit Linux Users Group <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Help Updating Asus BIOS Using Afudos
> Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 05:32:59 -0400
> 
> On Sun, 8 Aug 2010 23:15:11 -0400
> Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 8:35 PM, Peter Bart <petertheplumber at att.net>
> > wrote:
> > > I'm not sure exactly what part it plays but it's provided by
> > > <http://www.freedos.org/>.
> > 
> > I have a loopback mounted floppy image of FreeDOS on my server that
> > I can netboot over PXE.  It's writable so I can just copy the ROM
> > image and update utility to it and then netboot the target to get a
> > FreeDOS prompt.  Saves from having to connect a floppy drive to the
> > target.
> 
> Why didn't you say so?!? Make me go through all this by myself ;)
> 

    I'll make a point of it if there's interest.

-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber
Sent from a mobile Internet Tablet


From carl at carltm.com  Sun Aug 15 01:31:44 2010
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 01:31:44 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] How was the meeting?
Message-ID: <274ce906a1e7264ca2a397c1a1101966.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

Have you ever seen a magician make something disappear in
the blink of an eye?  That's what happened to me on Saturday.

I was really hoping to attend the meeting.  So how did it go?
How was the presentation?  Did Mat have anything entertaining
to complain about?

c




From tony at bemushosting.com  Sun Aug 15 01:41:12 2010
From: tony at bemushosting.com (Tony Bemus)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 01:41:12 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] How was the meeting?
Message-ID: <0MNaHi-1OqXZl0tDO-0079uW@mrelay.perfora.net>

Unfortunately Mat was not able to make the meeting.  In his absense his wife opened the room for us.  I sat in for him and gave his Tech Tip, Reseting the root password. Then I contunued on with my presentation on how to setup a LAMP server.  Notes for both is available on the new www.mdlug.org Site.  

Tony Bemus
Sent from my smartphone

-----Original Message-----
From: Carl T. Miller <carl at carltm.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 1:31 AM
To: MDLUG List <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: [mdlug] How was the meeting?

Have you ever seen a magician make something disappear in
the blink of an eye?  That's what happened to me on Saturday.

I was really hoping to attend the meeting.  So how did it go?
How was the presentation?  Did Mat have anything entertaining
to complain about?

c


_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From carl at carltm.com  Sun Aug 15 02:02:54 2010
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 02:02:54 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] How was the meeting?
In-Reply-To: <0MNaHi-1OqXZl0tDO-0079uW@mrelay.perfora.net>
References: <0MNaHi-1OqXZl0tDO-0079uW@mrelay.perfora.net>
Message-ID: <427304d9f24d7f982125ab89f0ec48f8.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

Very cool.  Thanks, Tony.

c


Tony Bemus wrote:
> Unfortunately Mat was not able to make the meeting.  In his absense his
> wife opened the room for us.  I sat in for him and gave his Tech Tip,
> Reseting the root password. Then I contunued on with my presentation on
> how to setup a LAMP server.  Notes for both is available on the new
> www.mdlug.org Site.
>
> Tony Bemus
> Sent from my smartphone
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carl T. Miller <carl at carltm.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 1:31 AM
> To: MDLUG List <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Subject: [mdlug] How was the meeting?
>
> Have you ever seen a magician make something disappear in
> the blink of an eye?  That's what happened to me on Saturday.
>
> I was really hoping to attend the meeting.  So how did it go?
> How was the presentation?  Did Mat have anything entertaining
> to complain about?
>
> c
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>




From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Sun Aug 15 17:45:34 2010
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Dr. Robert Meier)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 17:45:34 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Periodic backup software (dis)recommendations
Message-ID: <4C685FFE.8000701@bellsouth.net>

Data Specialists,

I'm configuring a new computer, and now is the time to consider
backup strategy.

What tools and/or features do you (dis)recommend?



In the past, I used cprcdr because of the following features.
   o scriptable map of live namespace to cd
   o ls -R index of each cd retained and searchable in live space

TIA,
--
Bob


From mat.enders at gmail.com  Sun Aug 15 17:56:25 2010
From: mat.enders at gmail.com (mat.enders at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 21:56:25 +0000
Subject: [mdlug] Periodic backup software (dis)recommendations
Message-ID: <1738859730-1281909386-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-322113277-@bda326.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

My only backup strategy is rsync and cron
------Original Message------
From: Dr. Robert Meier
Sender: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
ReplyTo: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: [mdlug] Periodic backup software (dis)recommendations
Sent: Aug 15, 2010 17:45

Data Specialists,

I'm configuring a new computer, and now is the time to consider
backup strategy.

What tools and/or features do you (dis)recommend?



In the past, I used cprcdr because of the following features.
   o scriptable map of live namespace to cd
   o ls -R index of each cd retained and searchable in live space

TIA,
--
Bob
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


Sent on the Sprint? Now Network from my BlackBerry?

From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sun Aug 15 18:05:25 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 18:05:25 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Periodic backup software (dis)recommendations
In-Reply-To: <4C685FFE.8000701@bellsouth.net>
References: <4C685FFE.8000701@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimp-sC1zXD+DFz4oa8_S6VZ1VZO9-b06qtPVa2b@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Dr. Robert Meier
<list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Data Specialists,
>
> I'm configuring a new computer, and now is the time to consider
> backup strategy.
>
> What tools and/or features do you (dis)recommend?
>
>
>
> In the past, I used cprcdr because of the following features.
> ? o scriptable map of live namespace to cd
> ? o ls -R index of each cd retained and searchable in live space

I'm using BackupPC on a server but it's not the easiest thing to set
up.  My workstation has a bunch of NFS shares to it so they are backed
up there instead of a remote backup from my workstation.  I'm using a
RAID1 mirror and add a third drive occasionally.  After it syncs I
take it off-site.


From petertheplumber at att.net  Sun Aug 15 19:02:41 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 19:02:41 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Periodic backup software (dis)recommendations
In-Reply-To: <4C685FFE.8000701@bellsouth.net>
References: <4C685FFE.8000701@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <1281913361.4686.237.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

On Sun, 2010-08-15 at 17:45 -0400, Dr. Robert Meier wrote:
> Data Specialists,
> 
> I'm configuring a new computer, and now is the time to consider
> backup strategy.
> 
> What tools and/or features do you (dis)recommend?
> 
> 
> 
> In the past, I used cprcdr because of the following features.
>    o scriptable map of live namespace to cd
>    o ls -R index of each cd retained and searchable in live space
> 

Dear Bob,
	Back in Time is what I use, but I'm not sure if it does what you want
it to do. <http://backintime.le-web.org/>
-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber



From carl at carltm.com  Sun Aug 15 20:54:51 2010
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 20:54:51 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Periodic backup software (dis)recommendations
In-Reply-To: <1738859730-1281909386-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-322113277-@bda326.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <1738859730-1281909386-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-322113277-@bda326.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <ba8adf15f1729d269d26df84727c7769.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

I use and recommend backuppc.  It's like rsync and cron
on steroids.  And it lets you see the history of files
over time.

c


mat.enders at gmail.com wrote:
> My only backup strategy is rsync and cron
> ------Original Message------
> From: Dr. Robert Meier
> Sender: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> ReplyTo: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: [mdlug] Periodic backup software (dis)recommendations
> Sent: Aug 15, 2010 17:45
>
> Data Specialists,
>
> I'm configuring a new computer, and now is the time to consider
> backup strategy.
>
> What tools and/or features do you (dis)recommend?
>
>
>
> In the past, I used cprcdr because of the following features.
>    o scriptable map of live namespace to cd
>    o ls -R index of each cd retained and searchable in live space
>
> TIA,
> --
> Bob
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>
> Sent on the Sprint? Now Network from my BlackBerry?
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>




From relson at osagesoftware.com  Sun Aug 15 20:53:01 2010
From: relson at osagesoftware.com (David Relson)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 20:53:01 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Periodic backup software (dis)recommendations
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimp-sC1zXD+DFz4oa8_S6VZ1VZO9-b06qtPVa2b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4C685FFE.8000701@bellsouth.net>
	<AANLkTimp-sC1zXD+DFz4oa8_S6VZ1VZO9-b06qtPVa2b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100815205301.55de6cad@osage.osagesoftware.com>

On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 18:05:25 -0400
Jeff Hanson wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Dr. Robert Meier
> <list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > Data Specialists,
> >
> > I'm configuring a new computer, and now is the time to consider
> > backup strategy.
> >
> > What tools and/or features do you (dis)recommend?
> >
> >
> >
> > In the past, I used cprcdr because of the following features.
> > ? o scriptable map of live namespace to cd
> > ? o ls -R index of each cd retained and searchable in live space
> 
> I'm using BackupPC on a server but it's not the easiest thing to set
> up.  My workstation has a bunch of NFS shares to it so they are backed
> up there instead of a remote backup from my workstation.  I'm using a
> RAID1 mirror and add a third drive occasionally.  After it syncs I
> take it off-site.

I, too, use BackupPC.  I much like the way it automatically tracks full
and incremental backups and the way it pools the backup files.  With
its pooling, only a single copy of a file is kept so that multiple
backups of a file are linked to the single copy.  This saves a huge
amount of space.


From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Sun Aug 15 21:21:03 2010
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 21:21:03 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Periodic backup software (dis)recommendations
References: <4C685FFE.8000701@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <FA7FB3A37F8C4F0699DCC38096B8950B@homepc>

I implemented Amanda and have a dedicated drive that is configured with 50 
virtual tapes.  I arbitrarily choose 50 vtapes, not knowing exactly how much 
space was going to be needed for a full cycle of backups (I probably could 
have done a reasonably close calculation).  After running for about a year, 
the overall disk space utilitization averages 15%.  So I could easily bump 
up the number of vtapes to 200 without much worry.  But it don't seem to get 
any requests to restore files past 30 days, so I figure might as well leave 
it at 50.  And I have to say, dealing with vtapes is a LOT easier than real 
tapes.  But a bit more difficult to take off site.  :-)  Hmmm... maybe I 
should incorporate some removable media to synchronize with the latest full 
backup on a weekly basis that could be taken off site.  We have a fairly 
slow Internet pipe, so using an Internet based backup solution probably 
won't work.

-Mike


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dr. Robert Meier" <list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net>
To: "MDLUG's Main discussion list" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 5:45 PM
Subject: [mdlug] Periodic backup software (dis)recommendations


> Data Specialists,
>
> I'm configuring a new computer, and now is the time to consider
> backup strategy.
>
> What tools and/or features do you (dis)recommend?
>
>
>
> In the past, I used cprcdr because of the following features.
>   o scriptable map of live namespace to cd
>   o ls -R index of each cd retained and searchable in live space
>
> TIA,
> --
> Bob
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3074 - Release Date: 08/15/10 
14:35:00




From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Sun Aug 15 22:25:18 2010
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 22:25:18 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] non-bind DNS server
Message-ID: <3E718A533F6A47FBA20F89A6F21501DA@homepc>

Anyone out there using a DNS server, other than bind?  Maybe something with 
a web based GUI.

-Mike 




From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sun Aug 15 22:36:55 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 22:36:55 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] non-bind DNS server
In-Reply-To: <3E718A533F6A47FBA20F89A6F21501DA@homepc>
References: <3E718A533F6A47FBA20F89A6F21501DA@homepc>
Message-ID: <AANLkTim33-=TAmdH6RkQtPVctYETGO75duGzniwoU+t-@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 10:25 PM, Michael ORourke
<mrorourke at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Anyone out there using a DNS server, other than bind? ?Maybe something with
> a web based GUI.
>

Webmin supports BIND.


From jrw32982 at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 15 23:21:20 2010
From: jrw32982 at yahoo.com (John Wiersba)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 20:21:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Periodic backup software (dis)recommendations
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1281926228.4813.mdlug@mdlug.org>
References: <mailman.3.1281926228.4813.mdlug@mdlug.org>
Message-ID: <862144.19883.qm@web52707.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I would recommend backing up to an external disk or server, not using CD or 
DVDs.  There are many reasons to do so, one of which is the convenience of 
accessing your backup for restoring files or just exploring previous backup 
points.

Up until recently, I used a variation of rsync called rsnapshot (a perl script 
which calls rsync).  It keeps snapshots of your backed up data using hard links, 
so that unchanged files do not take up any extra disk space in subsequent 
snapshots.  


Now, I just use rsync directly with a little shell wrapper, for greater control 
over my specific requirements.  On modern systems rsync can handle the hard 
linking itself -- you just need to determine the directory to hard link to 
(namely, your most recent snapshot directory):

   /usr/bin/rsync -a    \
      --numeric-ids     \
      --relative        \
      --delete          \
      --delete-excluded \
      --link-dest=$PREV \
      $EXCLUDES         \
      $FROM             \
      $TO

You can add -x and -H if appropriate.  PREV is the previous snapshot directory, 
EXCLUDES is a list of exclude options (optional).  FROM is the source 
directory.  TO is the new snapshot location.


      


From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Mon Aug 16 08:49:28 2010
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 08:49:28 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] non-bind DNS server
In-Reply-To: <3E718A533F6A47FBA20F89A6F21501DA@homepc>
References: <3E718A533F6A47FBA20F89A6F21501DA@homepc>
Message-ID: <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690230117D72@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

I use djbdns all over the place in lieu of bind.  He's simplified the configuration while still maintaining all the functionality that I've needed.  I haven't found any good web-based admin tools (in fact, I took a shot at building one).  It's also supposed to be ultra-secure (the author even offers up "insurance" in the form of $5000 (I think) with a guarantee that if your system ever gets compromised, it won't be djbdns that was used as an attack vector).

Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Michael ORourke
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 10:25 PM
To: MDLUG's main mailing list
Subject: [mdlug] non-bind DNS server

Anyone out there using a DNS server, other than bind?  Maybe something with 
a web based GUI.

-Mike 


_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From gib at juno.com  Mon Aug 16 09:00:53 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 13:00:53 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] Periodic backup software (dis)recommendations -
	Presentation?
Message-ID: <20100816.090053.26851.0@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>

Seems like back up solutions may be a good topic for a future presentation.

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Michael ORourke" <mrorourke at earthlink.net>
To: "MDLUG's Main discussion list" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Periodic backup software (dis)recommendations
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 21:21:03 -0400

I implemented Amanda and have a dedicated drive that is configured with 50 
virtual tapes.  I arbitrarily choose 50 vtapes, not knowing exactly how much 
space was going to be needed for a full cycle of backups (I probably could 
have done a reasonably close calculation).  After running for about a year, 
the overall disk space utilitization averages 15%.  So I could easily bump 
up the number of vtapes to 200 without much worry.  But it don't seem to get 
any requests to restore files past 30 days, so I figure might as well leave 
it at 50.  And I have to say, dealing with vtapes is a LOT easier than real 
tapes.  But a bit more difficult to take off site.  :-)  Hmmm... maybe I 
should incorporate some removable media to synchronize with the latest full 
backup on a weekly basis that could be taken off site.  We have a fairly 
slow Internet pipe, so using an Internet based backup solution probably 
won't work.

-Mike


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dr. Robert Meier" <list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net>
To: "MDLUG's Main discussion list" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 5:45 PM
Subject: [mdlug] Periodic backup software (dis)recommendations


> Data Specialists,
>
> I'm configuring a new computer, and now is the time to consider
> backup strategy.
>
> What tools and/or features do you (dis)recommend?
>
>
>
> In the past, I used cprcdr because of the following features.
>   o scriptable map of live namespace to cd
>   o ls -R index of each cd retained and searchable in live space
>
> TIA,
> --
> Bob
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3074 - Release Date: 08/15/10 
14:35:00


_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
____________________________________________________________
Online Six Sigma Training
Earn A Six Sigma Master Certificate Today From Villanova University.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4c69369a80a0c3d9138st05vuc


From tesral at wowway.com  Mon Aug 16 10:10:58 2010
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 10:10:58 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Periodic backup software (dis)recommendations
In-Reply-To: <862144.19883.qm@web52707.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.3.1281926228.4813.mdlug@mdlug.org>
	<862144.19883.qm@web52707.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4C6946F2.9040702@wowway.com>

John Wiersba wrote:
>
>    /usr/bin/rsync -a    \
>       --numeric-ids     \
>       --relative        \
>       --delete          \
>       --delete-excluded \
>       --link-dest=$PREV \
>       $EXCLUDES         \
>       $FROM             \
>       $TO
>
>   

Similar to the script I use as well.  Mine is even shorter. 

rsync -avz /home'user/ /backup/



-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Those persons, or societies, easily offended need to be offended until they get over it.
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From danno at umich.edu  Mon Aug 16 10:45:19 2010
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 10:45:19 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] non-bind DNS server
In-Reply-To: <3E718A533F6A47FBA20F89A6F21501DA@homepc>
References: <3E718A533F6A47FBA20F89A6F21501DA@homepc>
Message-ID: <20100816144519.GA80778@maniac.deathstar.org>

On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 10:25:18PM -0400, Michael ORourke wrote:
> Anyone out there using a DNS server, other than bind?  Maybe something with 
> a web based GUI.

I'm sure there are plenty of web GUIs for BIND.  

I have heard good things about "unbound" and "dnsmasq" if all you
need is a local caching server.

dnsmasq talks about being targeted to home networks, but I've talked
to sysadmins at commercial sites who liked it.

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From awilliam at opengroupware.us  Mon Aug 16 10:51:38 2010
From: awilliam at opengroupware.us (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 10:51:38 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] non-bind DNS server
In-Reply-To: <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690230117D72@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
References: <3E718A533F6A47FBA20F89A6F21501DA@homepc>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690230117D72@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
Message-ID: <1281970298.7351.10.camel@linux-yu4c.site>

On Mon, 2010-08-16 at 08:49 -0400, Wojtak, Greg wrote:
> I use djbdns all over the place in lieu of bind.  
> He's simplified the configuration while still maintaining all the functionality that I've needed. 

This has always been a claim of djbdns users.

I don't buy it - what about managing an ISC Bind DNS server is
complicated?  What *specifically* does djbdns simplify?

-- 
Adam Tauno Williams <awilliam at whitemice.org> LPIC-1, Novell CLA
<http://www.whitemiceconsulting.com>
OpenGroupware, Cyrus IMAPd, Postfix, OpenLDAP, Samba




From danno at umich.edu  Mon Aug 16 10:49:25 2010
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 10:49:25 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Periodic backup software (dis)recommendations
In-Reply-To: <ba8adf15f1729d269d26df84727c7769.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
References: <1738859730-1281909386-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-322113277-@bda326.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<ba8adf15f1729d269d26df84727c7769.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <20100816144925.GB80778@maniac.deathstar.org>

On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 08:54:51PM -0400, Carl T. Miller wrote:
> I use and recommend backuppc.  It's like rsync and cron
> on steroids.  And it lets you see the history of files
> over time.

I'm a fan of BackupPC too. 

Note, however, that it is difficult to replicate the backuppc
data store; it makes extensive use of hard links, so duplicating
the backuppc filesystem via traditional means takes FOREVER.

OTOH you can just use dd to dup the entire filesystem to another
disk.

This reminds me, make sure you use a filesystem with dynamic inode
allocation (xfs, jfs), or if you are stuck with ext3 make sure to
create the filesystem with lots of inodes, many more than
the default.

danno


From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Mon Aug 16 12:24:49 2010
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 12:24:49 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] non-bind DNS server
In-Reply-To: <1281970298.7351.10.camel@linux-yu4c.site>
References: <3E718A533F6A47FBA20F89A6F21501DA@homepc>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4690230117D72@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<1281970298.7351.10.camel@linux-yu4c.site>
Message-ID: <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46902301185F6@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

The main thing I like that it takes care of for me is being able to create a PTR and an A record on one line in one configuration file.  Many BIND set ups that I have seen are horrendously ugly because the admin might have cleaned up an A record but did not remove the associated PTR.  While the steps needed to remove both records are not difficult or even really tedious, I just see that as one example of djbdns's configuration being a little more simple.  I'm not a djbdns bigot or anti-BIND either; I am just pointing out an alternative to bind that I have used.

Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Adam Tauno Williams
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 10:52 AM
To: mdlug at mdlug.org
Subject: Re: [mdlug] non-bind DNS server

On Mon, 2010-08-16 at 08:49 -0400, Wojtak, Greg wrote:
> I use djbdns all over the place in lieu of bind.  
> He's simplified the configuration while still maintaining all the functionality that I've needed. 

This has always been a claim of djbdns users.

I don't buy it - what about managing an ISC Bind DNS server is
complicated?  What *specifically* does djbdns simplify?

-- 
Adam Tauno Williams <awilliam at whitemice.org> LPIC-1, Novell CLA
<http://www.whitemiceconsulting.com>
OpenGroupware, Cyrus IMAPd, Postfix, OpenLDAP, Samba


_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From gib at juno.com  Mon Aug 16 12:48:34 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 16:48:34 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  non-bind DNS server
Message-ID: <20100816.124834.9224.0@webmail04.vgs.untd.com>

You know, I've heard people talk about bind for years. But I don't recall many presentations about it.  Anyone?

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Adam Tauno Williams <awilliam at opengroupware.us>
To: mdlug at mdlug.org
Subject: Re: [mdlug] non-bind DNS server
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 10:51:38 -0400

On Mon, 2010-08-16 at 08:49 -0400, Wojtak, Greg wrote:
> I use djbdns all over the place in lieu of bind.  
> He's simplified the configuration while still maintaining all the functionality that I've needed. 

This has always been a claim of djbdns users.

I don't buy it - what about managing an ISC Bind DNS server is
complicated?  What *specifically* does djbdns simplify?

-- 
Adam Tauno Williams <awilliam at whitemice.org> LPIC-1, Novell CLA
<http://www.whitemiceconsulting.com>
OpenGroupware, Cyrus IMAPd, Postfix, OpenLDAP, Samba


_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
____________________________________________________________
Mortgage Rates Hit 3.25%
If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program
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From dobwan at earthlink.net  Mon Aug 16 13:16:42 2010
From: dobwan at earthlink.net (Duane)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 13:16:42 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
Subject: [mdlug] Periodic backup software (dis)recommendations
Message-ID: <7323879.1281979003098.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Found a great article on the IBM Developer Works web site. The last part was extremely educational to me.
Duane
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/aix/library/au-spunix_rsync/index.html?ca=dgr-twtrDoRSYNCdth-AIX

-----Original Message-----
>From: John Wiersba <jrw32982 at yahoo.com>
>Sent: Aug 15, 2010 11:21 PM
>To: mdlug at mdlug.org
>Subject: Re: [mdlug] Periodic backup software (dis)recommendations
>
>I would recommend backing up to an external disk or server, not using CD or 
>DVDs.  There are many reasons to do so, one of which is the convenience of 
>accessing your backup for restoring files or just exploring previous backup 
>points.
>
>Up until recently, I used a variation of rsync called rsnapshot (a perl script 
>which calls rsync).  It keeps snapshots of your backed up data using hard links, 
>so that unchanged files do not take up any extra disk space in subsequent 
>snapshots.  
>
>
>Now, I just use rsync directly with a little shell wrapper, for greater control 
>over my specific requirements.  On modern systems rsync can handle the hard 
>linking itself -- you just need to determine the directory to hard link to 
>(namely, your most recent snapshot directory):
>
>   /usr/bin/rsync -a    \
>      --numeric-ids     \
>      --relative        \
>      --delete          \
>      --delete-excluded \
>      --link-dest=$PREV \
>      $EXCLUDES         \
>      $FROM             \
>      $TO
>
>You can add -x and -H if appropriate.  PREV is the previous snapshot directory, 
>EXCLUDES is a list of exclude options (optional).  FROM is the source 
>directory.  TO is the new snapshot location.
>
>
>      
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Aug 16 21:16:25 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 21:16:25 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Finding something for a cat
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=wutsF5e0Ze+U5NKykpZTwOtU2ROWQVi+k0H8O@mail.gmail.com>

I'm trying to save some typing with some kickstart config files but I
can't get find to work with cat properly.

Directory structure is as follows:
/srv/tftpboot/kickstart/ubuntu/10.10/
/srv/tftpboot/kickstart/ubuntu/10.04/
/srv/tftpboot/kickstart/ubuntu/9.10/
/srv/tftpboot/kickstart/kubuntu/10.10/
/srv/tftpboot/kickstart/kubuntu/10.04/
/srv/tftpboot/kickstart/kubuntu/9.10/
/srv/tftpboot/kickstart/xubuntu/10.10/
/srv/tftpboot/kickstart/xubuntu/10.04/
/srv/tftpboot/kickstart/xubuntu/9.10/

Each has these files:
alternate-i386-desktop.cfg
alternate-amd64-desktop.cfg

I have a text file of "standard" packages I need added with each of
these configurations to form a "standard" configuration:
/srv/tftpboot/kickstart/always_added_packages.txt

The result is just standard-alternate-i386-desktop.cfg or
alternate-amd64-desktop.cfg

>From the kickstart directory:
find . -type d -execdir cat '{}/alternate-i386-desktop.cfg'
/srv/tftpboot/kickstart/always_added_packages.txt>{}/standard-alternate-i386-desktop.cfg'
\;

This results in "bash: {}/standard-alternate-i386-desktop.cfg: No such
file or directory" as if the redirect char is causing a problem with
find and it's not expanding the variable correctly.

This one:

find . -type d -execdir echo '{}/alternate-i386-desktop.cfg
/srv/tftpboot/kickstart/always_added_packages.txt>{}/standard-alternate-i386-desktop.cfg'
\; | xargs -0 cat

Results in a "No such file or directory" error from cat with what
looks like the correct arguments but they are taken as a huge single
argument.  I tried changing the IFS to \n\r but that didn't affect it.

Any ideas?


From markmont at umich.edu  Mon Aug 16 21:28:09 2010
From: markmont at umich.edu (Mark Montague)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 21:28:09 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Finding something for a cat
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=wutsF5e0Ze+U5NKykpZTwOtU2ROWQVi+k0H8O@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=wutsF5e0Ze+U5NKykpZTwOtU2ROWQVi+k0H8O@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C69E5A9.3090708@umich.edu>

  On August 16, 2010 21:16 , Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com>  wrote:
> find . -type d -execdir cat '{}/alternate-i386-desktop.cfg'
> /srv/tftpboot/kickstart/always_added_packages.txt>{}/standard-alternate-i386-desktop.cfg'
> \;
>
> This results in "bash: {}/standard-alternate-i386-desktop.cfg: No such
> file or directory" as if the redirect char is causing a problem with
> find and it's not expanding the variable correctly.

Redirects are interpreted by the shell, not by find, and find does not 
invoke a shell for the commands it runs via the -exec action, it just 
passes individual arguments you give it to something like the execve() 
system call.  ("man 2 execve" for more information).

You can solve the problem by telling find to invoke a shell for you for 
each command -- the shell will then set up the I/O redirection before 
running the cat command.  Try the following (not tested):

find . -type d -execdir /bin/sh -c 'cat {}/alternate-i386-desktop.cfg /srv/tftpboot/kickstart/always_added_packages.txt>  {}/standard-alternate-i386-desktop.cfg' \;


Note the new position of the single quotes -- the entire cat command, 
including the {} substituions made by find, plus the redirection, are a 
single argument that gets passed to /bin/sh to run.

I hope this helps.

--
   Mark Montague
   mark at catseye.org



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Aug 16 21:33:51 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 21:33:51 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Finding something for a cat
In-Reply-To: <4C69E5A9.3090708@umich.edu>
References: <AANLkTi=wutsF5e0Ze+U5NKykpZTwOtU2ROWQVi+k0H8O@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C69E5A9.3090708@umich.edu>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinMWmNyicgAxHh_iHXr3RtwdM9KZjh0OHtkxTz3@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 9:28 PM, Mark Montague <markmont at umich.edu> wrote:
> Redirects are interpreted by the shell, not by find, and find does not
> invoke a shell for the commands it runs via the -exec action, it just passes
> individual arguments you give it to something like the execve() system call.
> ?("man 2 execve" for more information).
>
> You can solve the problem by telling find to invoke a shell for you for each
> command -- the shell will then set up the I/O redirection before running the
> cat command. ?Try the following (not tested):
>
> find . -type d -execdir /bin/sh -c 'cat {}/alternate-i386-desktop.cfg
> /srv/tftpboot/kickstart/always_added_packages.txt>
> ?{}/standard-alternate-i386-desktop.cfg' \;
>
>
> Note the new position of the single quotes -- the entire cat command,
> including the {} substituions made by find, plus the redirection, are a
> single argument that gets passed to /bin/sh to run.
>

I had a feeling that was the problem.  I was messing around with bash
to get the same thing with the eval command.  Looks like I had the
wrong one.  It works now.  Thanks.


From otakurider at gmail.com  Tue Aug 17 08:41:40 2010
From: otakurider at gmail.com (-)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 08:41:40 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Periodic backup software (dis)recommendations
In-Reply-To: <4C685FFE.8000701@bellsouth.net>
References: <4C685FFE.8000701@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinB=OGt6aR9jVuAkdrfLSf+SC9-FWNhAnAm9Q77@mail.gmail.com>

First question is what is your strategy for bare metal restore?  Check out
redobackup it allows for bare-metal restore, even clonezilla can be a
option.  Yes I know you can reinstall the OS then install a backup software
but, pop the restore CD (or cloned spare HDD) in take a book 10min break
then your back to a clean machine with your data backup software installed
and scripts configured for restore.  For the data restore I have good luck
with rsync  and Amanda from a external HDD.  I try to do back up the HDD in
three (three places) with one of the places off site.   I think HDD being
faster then tape is a better way to go.

Pat

-- "its never a true backup until its in three places" -



On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Dr. Robert Meier <
list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net> wrote:

> Data Specialists,
>
> I'm configuring a new computer, and now is the time to consider
> backup strategy.
>
> What tools and/or features do you (dis)recommend?
>
>
>
> In the past, I used cprcdr because of the following features.
>   o scriptable map of live namespace to cd
>   o ls -R index of each cd retained and searchable in live space
>
> TIA,
> --
> Bob
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From jrw32982 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 17 09:06:10 2010
From: jrw32982 at yahoo.com (John Wiersba)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 06:06:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Finding something for a cat
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5.1282048912.4813.mdlug@mdlug.org>
References: <mailman.5.1282048912.4813.mdlug@mdlug.org>
Message-ID: <859660.61239.qm@web52708.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Why not just simplify things by avoiding -exec in find?  I almost always find 
that I can do what I want with a simple shell loop like the following.  It's so 
much easier to read than all the escaping and quoting you need in order to embed 
the command you need as an argument to find.

find . -type d |
while read dir ;do
   # Do whatever you want with each $dir
done


      


From jbroughton at twmi.rr.com  Tue Aug 17 09:21:18 2010
From: jbroughton at twmi.rr.com (Jim Broughton)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 09:21:18 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] non-bind DNS server
In-Reply-To: <20100816.124834.9224.0@webmail04.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20100816.124834.9224.0@webmail04.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <4C6A8CCE.6060604@twmi.rr.com>

Thats because Bind is seriously over complex for what it does.
I've been trying for years to wrap my brain around the Bind
DNS system and it still eludes me. I can write fairly complex
iptables firewalls while sleep walking but Bind throws me for a loop.
I have looked at but not used djbdns and it does seem a little less
complex than Bind.

Jim



gib at juno.com wrote:
> You know, I've heard people talk about bind for years. But I don't recall many presentations about it.  Anyone?
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: Adam Tauno Williams <awilliam at opengroupware.us>
> To: mdlug at mdlug.org
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] non-bind DNS server
> Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 10:51:38 -0400
>
> On Mon, 2010-08-16 at 08:49 -0400, Wojtak, Greg wrote:
>   
>> I use djbdns all over the place in lieu of bind.  
>> He's simplified the configuration while still maintaining all the functionality that I've needed. 
>>     
>
> This has always been a claim of djbdns users.
>
> I don't buy it - what about managing an ISC Bind DNS server is
> complicated?  What *specifically* does djbdns simplify?
>
>   



From danno at umich.edu  Tue Aug 17 10:37:44 2010
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 10:37:44 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Periodic backup software (dis)recommendations
In-Reply-To: <4C685FFE.8000701@bellsouth.net>
References: <4C685FFE.8000701@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <20100817143744.GA17767@maniac.deathstar.org>

On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 05:45:34PM -0400, Dr. Robert Meier wrote:
> I'm configuring a new computer, and now is the time to consider
> backup strategy.

Something I forgot to mention in my previous reply:

DO TEST RESTORES.

REGULARLY.

backups are easy.  RESTORES ARE HARD.

Test that every client can restore, or be damn sure that they are
so alike as for it to be a waste of time.  

a couple anecdotes from hard experience:

1) I managed a umich department that used a lot of NeXT workstations.
we backed them up with rdump to a tape drive on a central machine.
worked great, yada yada.

Somewhere along the line NeXT stopped making hardware and released
its OS for x86 machines.  A faculty member bought a PC preloaded
with nextstep and i added it to backups.  along we went, no problems.

He had a total disk failure.  we went to restore.  Whoops, dump
dumped raw filesystem data.  The filesystem was byte-order dependent.
The backup server was a 68030; the client an i486.  I have never
gone to figure out exacttly what went wrong, but there was data on
the tape from this box, just as had been logged.  The other data
on the tape, from 68k clients, restored fine, either locally on the
server or remotely on the client with rrestore.  Unfortunately, the
data on the tape from the i486 machine was not readable either
locally on the server (no big surprise, byte-order wrong), OR on
the client with rrestore.

Oops.

On the plus side, Ontrack got all his data back and it only cost
$1-2000 (1996 dollars, i don't recall exactly).  Given that it was
a year of his life, it was a bargain.


2) Another umich department.  This one happened to have a Sun.

I had set up backups to their local tape drive, and tested restores,
no problems.

I had a summer intern whose job it was to do local tech support
(which he did fine) and swap the tapes so backups occurred
regularly.  

At the end of the summer, both the intern and I left the U for
greener pastures.  

Soon after, I got a call from a former colleague who was trying to
do a restore.  I don't know exaclty what went wrong but the backups
were no good.

It was my fault, not the intern's.  I shouldn't have left this
important task to him with no supervision/verification it was getting
done right.



In each case, if i had properly tested restores, data loss would have
been prevented.


I hope my sad experience helps some of you.

danno


From radkins at impelind.com  Tue Aug 17 12:00:24 2010
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins II)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 12:00:24 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Backup Solutions
Message-ID: <442C847C722E41458448441239CCF7F2@Delta7>

I would like to review something that is a little more "automatic" than what
I am using right now.
 
What am I using right now? Custom scripts to copy data from the live server
to the back-up external Hard Drives, manually confirming the backups and
swapping out the external drives every couple of days.
 
What I would like to see/use is a simple GUI (For those times when I am on
vacation so that I can put the task into the hands of a "skilled" user.)
that can show what has been backed up, what needs to be backed up and may
have features for things like incremental backups and also some of kind of
basic version control so that if certain files that are updated daily
suddenly become irrevocably corrupt, there will be a copy at least 24 hours
old that can be restored.
 
Is there anything that features any of the above currently available either
OSS or commercially available for Linux? 


-- 

Regards, 
Rob



From gib at juno.com  Wed Aug 18 09:20:15 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 13:20:15 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] Mainstream News Media Article - Avoid Microsoft Office Cost
Message-ID: <20100818.092015.29886.0@webmail24.vgs.untd.com>

Just saw this and I thought it was interesting:
http://www.mainstreet.com/article/smart-spending/technology/5-ways-avoid-computer-sticker-shock-0?cm_ven=msnetzero

. . . there are ways to meet your word processing and spreadsheet needs without spending a dime. OpenOffice is a free, open-source office suite that includes a word processor, a spreadsheet maker and a presentation tool similar to PowerPoint.
____________________________________________________________
2010 Credit Scores
Click to View Your 2010 Credit Scores Now! All 3 Scores FREE !
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4c6bde79f29a8807cc1st01vuc


From danno at umich.edu  Wed Aug 18 09:56:08 2010
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 09:56:08 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Backup Solutions
In-Reply-To: <442C847C722E41458448441239CCF7F2@Delta7>
References: <442C847C722E41458448441239CCF7F2@Delta7>
Message-ID: <20100818135608.GA41117@maniac.deathstar.org>

definitely take a look at backuppc.

Note that it is basically a client/server sort of thing, rather than
a "back up a single host to an external drive" sort of thing, although
i think with the right configuration you could make it work that way.

On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 12:00:24PM -0400, Robert Adkins II wrote:
> I would like to review something that is a little more "automatic" than what
> I am using right now.
>  
> What am I using right now? Custom scripts to copy data from the live server
> to the back-up external Hard Drives, manually confirming the backups and
> swapping out the external drives every couple of days.
>  
> What I would like to see/use is a simple GUI (For those times when I am on
> vacation so that I can put the task into the hands of a "skilled" user.)
> that can show what has been backed up, what needs to be backed up and may
> have features for things like incremental backups and also some of kind of
> basic version control so that if certain files that are updated daily
> suddenly become irrevocably corrupt, there will be a copy at least 24 hours
> old that can be restored.
>  
> Is there anything that features any of the above currently available either
> OSS or commercially available for Linux? 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Regards, 
> Rob
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 18 13:30:28 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 10:30:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Microsoft Monopoly
Message-ID: <54305.24271.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

(OT; But it is on topic because Linux resources are being replaced by windows)
?
Recently I was informed that a Linux server is being replaced by a windows 2008 
server.? I started to think about ?Microsoft Monopoly? case. MS must have a very 
good legal team. 

?
But I still think that Microsoft is leveraging to move Linux out. I hate it when 
good performing resources are replaced by Windows Servers, ?Because it is easier 
to support.? If Microsoft were not ?anti-trust? the applications division would 
have ported MS Office to Linux. 

?
I buy and use MS products, sure but sometimes it is because I have to. Not 
because it is my first choice. MS leaves me with no other choices.? And that is 
why I feel MS is ?anti-trust.?
?
?
David C. Lane 


      


From jaketodd422 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 18 18:31:40 2010
From: jaketodd422 at gmail.com (Jacob Todd)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 18:31:40 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Microsoft Monopoly
In-Reply-To: <54305.24271.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <54305.24271.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20100818223140.GA14371@zoidberg.hsd1.mi.comcast.net>

On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 10:30:28AM -0700, David Lane wrote:
> (OT; But it is on topic because Linux resources are being replaced by windows)
> ?
> Recently I was informed that a Linux server is being replaced by a windows 2008 
> server.? I started to think about ?Microsoft Monopoly? case. MS must have a very 
> good legal team. 
So because someone choose to use Win2000 instead of Linux on a server, Microsoft
has a monopoly? There seems to be a flaw in your reasoning.

> But I still think that Microsoft is leveraging to move Linux out. I hate it when 
> good performing resources are replaced by Windows Servers, ?Because it is easier 
> to support.? If Microsoft were not ?anti-trust? the applications division would 
> have ported MS Office to Linux. 
This doesn't really make sense. Of course Microsoft is going to try to get people
to start using Windows server over Linux, Linux is one of Microsofts biggest
competetors in server environments. I don't understand the statement about
``anti-trust.'' It's a very ambiguous term.
?
> I buy and use MS products, sure but sometimes it is because I have to. Not 
> because it is my first choice. MS leaves me with no other choices.? And that is 
> why I feel MS is ?anti-trust.?
Microsoft does leave you with other choices, there's OO.o, LaTeX, troff, abiword,
kde's office software, et cetera. If there's something that these other systems
can't provide because Microsoft threatened to enforce their patents on the
authors, that is the fault of the State for providing monopolies in the first
place.
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From petertheplumber at att.net  Wed Aug 18 19:55:08 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 19:55:08 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Backup Solutions
In-Reply-To: <442C847C722E41458448441239CCF7F2@Delta7>
References: <442C847C722E41458448441239CCF7F2@Delta7>
Message-ID: <1282175708.19176.5.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

On Tue, 2010-08-17 at 12:00 -0400, Robert Adkins II wrote:
> I would like to review something that is a little more "automatic" than what
> I am using right now.
>  
> What am I using right now? Custom scripts to copy data from the live server
> to the back-up external Hard Drives, manually confirming the backups and
> swapping out the external drives every couple of days.
>  
> What I would like to see/use is a simple GUI (For those times when I am on
> vacation so that I can put the task into the hands of a "skilled" user.)
> that can show what has been backed up, what needs to be backed up and may
> have features for things like incremental backups and also some of kind of
> basic version control so that if certain files that are updated daily
> suddenly become irrevocably corrupt, there will be a copy at least 24 hours
> old that can be restored.
>  
> Is there anything that features any of the above currently available either
> OSS or commercially available for Linux? 
> 
> 
Back In Time is very simple to use. I use it to back up to external hard
drives. I believe it will do what you want.
<http://backintime.le-web.org/>
-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber



From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 18 20:26:23 2010
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 20:26:23 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Microsoft Monopoly
In-Reply-To: <54305.24271.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <54305.24271.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikS3tAMnvxpttREq_Ac0hwLXcUMrRmy_WCkywm8@mail.gmail.com>

--- David Lane wrote:

> Recently I was informed that a Linux server is being replaced by a windows 2008
> server.? I started to think about ?Microsoft Monopoly? case. MS must have a very
> good legal team.

The problem is not the "monopoly", it's the flawed perception that,
somehow, Windows severs are easier/cheaper/better than *nix servers.
The fact is that Internet-facing Windows servers are MUCH more
vulnerable to attack than Linux/BSD/Mac-based servers.  I don't have
the exact statistics in front of me, but from what I have seen, WAMP
servers (Windows/Apache/MySQL/PHP) are more vulnerable than LAMP
servers, with the Win/IIS server stack the most vulnerable of all to
attack.  This means that Windows servers cost users TWICE (or
more)--once for the OS, once for the added security and (to a high
probability) even more to clean up the mess after a successful attack;
not to mention the down time needed to reboot the system(s) after the
endless cycle of updates (that often cause more problems than they
solve).

You may find more about this here:
<http://uptime.netcraft.com/ex/pass/pass-faq.html>

~~ Michael Rudas
?? My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
?? My software blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com
?? My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/protop
?? http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey


From radkins at impelind.com  Thu Aug 19 10:55:19 2010
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins II)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 10:55:19 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Microsoft Monopoly
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikS3tAMnvxpttREq_Ac0hwLXcUMrRmy_WCkywm8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54305.24271.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<AANLkTikS3tAMnvxpttREq_Ac0hwLXcUMrRmy_WCkywm8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FB6C9534A0E943FA8A6E2D6861EDBAD3@Delta7>

> 
> --- David Lane wrote:
> 
> > Recently I was informed that a Linux server is being replaced by a 
> > windows 2008 server.? I started to think about ?Microsoft Monopoly? 
> > case. MS must have a very good legal team.
> 
> The problem is not the "monopoly", it's the flawed perception 
> that, somehow, Windows severs are easier/cheaper/better than 
> *nix servers.
> The fact is that Internet-facing Windows servers are MUCH 
> more vulnerable to attack than Linux/BSD/Mac-based servers.  
> I don't have the exact statistics in front of me, but from 
> what I have seen, WAMP servers (Windows/Apache/MySQL/PHP) are 
> more vulnerable than LAMP servers, with the Win/IIS server 
> stack the most vulnerable of all to attack.  This means that 
> Windows servers cost users TWICE (or more)--once for the OS, 
> once for the added security and (to a high
> probability) even more to clean up the mess after a 
> successful attack; not to mention the down time needed to 
> reboot the system(s) after the endless cycle of updates (that 
> often cause more problems than they solve).
> 
> You may find more about this here:
> <http://uptime.netcraft.com/ex/pass/pass-faq.html>
> 
> ~~ Michael Rudas
> ?? My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
> ?? My software blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com
> ?? My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/protop
> ?? http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey


  When it is said that it is "easier" to Administer a Windows Server than a
Linux server, what they really mean is that there are more people out in the
wilds of the job market that are "knowledgable" about Administrating Windows
than Linux systems. It has absolutely nothing to do with the actual
configuration or maintaining of the resulting systems.

  Modern Linux distros are in many ways as easy or easier to setup and
configure than comparable duty Windows servers/systems.

  -Rob



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Thu Aug 19 14:49:36 2010
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 14:49:36 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Microsoft Monopoly
In-Reply-To: <FB6C9534A0E943FA8A6E2D6861EDBAD3@Delta7>
References: <54305.24271.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com><AANLkTikS3tAMnvxpttREq_Ac0hwLXcUMrRmy_WCkywm8@mail.gmail.com>
	<FB6C9534A0E943FA8A6E2D6861EDBAD3@Delta7>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E037054ABAE4@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Robert Adkins II

>   When it is said that it is "easier" to Administer a Windows Server
than a
> Linux server, what they really mean is that there are more people out
in the
> wilds of the job market that are "knowledgable" about Administrating
Windows
> than Linux systems. It has absolutely nothing to do with the actual
> configuration or maintaining of the resulting systems.

 This reminded me of my .sig below:

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                     (313) 227-2317

 "Microsoft products are easy to administer. Anyone can do it!
 Even if you don't want them to..." - Jim Richardson, in COLA

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.



From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 19 11:22:56 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 08:22:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Microsoft Monopoly
In-Reply-To: <20100818223140.GA14371@zoidberg.hsd1.mi.comcast.net>
References: <54305.24271.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20100818223140.GA14371@zoidberg.hsd1.mi.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <360063.14479.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Oh, and Microsoft plays NICE?
?
I will agree that?MS's activities might not be "Anti-trust," but there close. 
One reason that there was an actual "Anti-trust" law suit was because they were 
close to forcing or "Leveraging" their own resources. And the thought of 
breaking them up would not have been a bad thing. Because if the applications 
division 

?
I would like to NOT have Windows in my home. But I have to use Visio and a few 
other windows based applications. I know if MS did port a few applications to 
Linux there would be those that will actually pay money for the applications.
?
So you are a Linux shop and you want to use Oracle that is no problem, same with 
UNIX, AIX, BSD and of course Windows. 

?
But lets say some yahoo wants MSSQL you cant just load it on one of your "UNIX" 
servers. (I work in education and there are a lot of applications that IT is 
forced to support because the ?That? platform is the only platform that the 
application is delivered.) So NOW you have to buy a new Windows server just for 
that application. 

?
I have seen many Unix shops become Windows shops in the past 6 years.? Microsoft 
is leveraging and my question is how much of it is in the spirit of competition. 
If there was not an AMD then Intel's prices would not be reasonable or "Cost 
effective". ?Without the competition that AMD offers, your $400 build would be 
800 or even 1200. With Microsoft your $400 build would be $600, oh you need an 
office product 749. ?
?
Lets think back, in the 90?s UNIX was the server environment, but the Microsoft 
resource that help make a dent in the server game was MS Visual Studio (eWeek). 
The cost UNIX programmers was way more than windows programmers. The bean 
counter pointed to the overall cost of a windows programmer in compared to a 
UNIX programmer.? Even though the windows applications were buggy the 
applications went forward. Leveraging MS resources was a good business strategy. 
?That is one reason that MS got there, But their size could be there issue.
?
BUT in ?Anti-trust? there is also a mass issue. And the choice to go with 
Microsoft is it?s mass, so that is what I?m hearing.? The MASS of Microsoft is 
influencing IT choices, not performance or security. 

?
Even though we know Linux out performs Windows in raw performance and security 
IT tech leaders are making a windows choice, and more than a few point to their 
size. Does anybody else see that trend?
?
David C. Lane 



________________________________
From: Jacob Todd <jaketodd422 at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Wed, August 18, 2010 6:31:40 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] OT: Microsoft Monopoly

On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 10:30:28AM -0700, David Lane wrote:
> (OT; But it is on topic because Linux resources are being replaced by windows)
> ?
> Recently I was informed that a Linux server is being replaced by a windows 2008 
>
> server.? I started to think about ?Microsoft Monopoly? case. MS must have a 
>very 
>
> good legal team. 
So because someone choose to use Win2000 instead of Linux on a server, Microsoft
has a monopoly? There seems to be a flaw in your reasoning.

> But I still think that Microsoft is leveraging to move Linux out. I hate it 
>when 
>
> good performing resources are replaced by Windows Servers, ?Because it is 
>easier 
>
> to support.? If Microsoft were not ?anti-trust? the applications division would 
>
> have ported MS Office to Linux. 
This doesn't really make sense. Of course Microsoft is going to try to get 
people
to start using Windows server over Linux, Linux is one of Microsofts biggest
competetors in server environments. I don't understand the statement about
``anti-trust.'' It's a very ambiguous term.
?
> I buy and use MS products, sure but sometimes it is because I have to. Not 
> because it is my first choice. MS leaves me with no other choices.? And that is 
>
> why I feel MS is ?anti-trust.?
Microsoft does leave you with other choices, there's OO.o, LaTeX, troff, 
abiword,
kde's office software, et cetera. If there's something that these other systems
can't provide because Microsoft threatened to enforce their patents on the
authors, that is the fault of the State for providing monopolies in the first
place.



      


From Stan at mcomputersolutions.com  Thu Aug 19 20:09:32 2010
From: Stan at mcomputersolutions.com (Stan Green)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 20:09:32 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Grub error 17
Message-ID: <201008192009.32702.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>

I moved my wife's computer form SUSE 11 to Debian Lenny. I took a minimal 
install approach and added what she needed. I had it almost done, just needed 
to get USB working for a normal user, as I could only mount one as root. (This 
is not the primary issue now! I'll come back to that later.)

So, I was messing around with dbus and hal configuration. Nothing was working so 
I put almost everything back the way it was (I missed a policy section in 
hal.conf that gave her user ID the same rights  as root.)  I then rebooted, but 
I forgot to take the USB flash drive out of the port.

So up come GRUB error 17. My web searching turned up that error 17 is: "This 
error is returned if the partition requested exists, but the filesystem type 
cannot be recognized by GRUB. "  I do not even get to the GRUB menu. After 
spending hours on line trying everthing I can find, I am pulling my (virtual) 
hair out. Using Knoppix, I have run GRUB setup on the first hardrive, I have 
done the fidisk to fix the partation table. I have run fsck on both the boot 
partition and the root partation.  Nothing has worked.

So, could I have messed up something with dbus or hal that would keep the 
machine from booting? Could leaving the USB drive in caused some change?

Is there anything else that might be keeping GRUB from recognizing the file 
system?

Thanks,
Stan


From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Fri Aug 20 00:55:18 2010
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Dr. Robert Meier)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 00:55:18 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Grub error 17
In-Reply-To: <201008192009.32702.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
References: <201008192009.32702.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <4C6E0AB6.4090101@bellsouth.net>

Stan,

I regret that I don't have a complete answer handy,
but I hope the following will help.

For further details, consider reading the lengthy exchange at
    http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=120802

I suspect, initrd, the ram disk boot loader[1],
was assembled at grub-install time
with a map of devices different from that at boot time.

<example>
grub was installed on a hard disk in one host,
where directing the bios to download from hd1
loaded the kernel from the hard disk,
and then the hard disk was placed in a different host,
where directing the bios to download from hd1
failed to load the kernel from the cd drive.
</example>

In your case I suspect the usb drive was installed when you
ran grub-install(?) to "setup grub" and its presence
altered the map of bios devices to unix devices
(e.g. hd0 vs hd1 mapped to /dev/hda vs /dev/usb0),
so that it differed from that reported by the bios
during a later boot.  As I would expect the bios
to map all non-removable devices exclusively or
before any removable devices, the only way I
can imagine your problem arising,
requires time-overlapping installation and removal
of an atapi (ide-scsi) or other such transient
device.



<hint>
If my assumptions are correct,
the deterministic solution is to boot an
appropriate[2] rescue system
(e.g. SuSE Rescue Disk) and "boot from hard disk",
thus bypassing the hard disk mbr and initrd.
You can then run grub-install with the correct
device map.
</hint>

<hint>
If my assumptions are correct,
a more practical approach is to repeatedly
   1. boot a rescue system
   2. mount the hard disk, and edit /boot/boot/device.map on hard disk
   3. shut down rescue system and remove live cd
   4. attempt to boot from hard disk (without rescue system)
   5. repeat steps 1-4 until 4 is successful
In step 2 of each repetition, try a different pairing of
   (hd0), (hd1), (hd2), ...
and
   /dev/hda, /dev/hdb, ...
I would expect a successful boot in less than 7 attempts.
(I would expect (hd0) /dev/hda to be most probable.)
</hint>



Once you have a successful build, I suggest that you
use grub to reinstall cleanly so that this vexing
problem does not bite again in future updates.



[1] initrd is a small operating system image used to load a kernel
that cannot be loaded by bios (usually too large or resident on
a device not supported by bios).

[2] Most simpler "rescue disk"s are merely and adjunct
to an installation, probably reboot via bios,
and would not be appropriate.  A better rescue disk will let
you select the bootable partition, act as a "chain loader",
and skip the bios "boot loader".



On 08/19/10 20:09, Stan Green wrote:
> I moved my wife's computer form SUSE 11 to Debian Lenny. I took a minimal
> install approach and added what she needed. I had it almost done, just needed
> to get USB working for a normal user, as I could only mount one as root. (This
> is not the primary issue now! I'll come back to that later.)
>
> So, I was messing around with dbus and hal configuration. Nothing was working so
> I put almost everything back the way it was (I missed a policy section in
> hal.conf that gave her user ID the same rights  as root.)  I then rebooted, but
> I forgot to take the USB flash drive out of the port.
>
> So up come GRUB error 17. My web searching turned up that error 17 is: "This
> error is returned if the partition requested exists, but the filesystem type
> cannot be recognized by GRUB. "  I do not even get to the GRUB menu. After
> spending hours on line trying everthing I can find, I am pulling my (virtual)
> hair out. Using Knoppix, I have run GRUB setup on the first hardrive, I have
> done the fidisk to fix the partation table. I have run fsck on both the boot
> partition and the root partation.  Nothing has worked.
>
> So, could I have messed up something with dbus or hal that would keep the
> machine from booting? Could leaving the USB drive in caused some change?

hal.  Yes, but AFAIK, another "mounted device removal" was required,
e.g. running kernel on atapi mounted partition.

> Is there anything else that might be keeping GRUB from recognizing the file
> system?

A purely coincidental disk corruption of the boot image
could have the same symptoms,
but fsck and grub setup should have corrected the corruption.

Hopefully helpful,
--
Bob


From petertheplumber at att.net  Fri Aug 20 07:17:59 2010
From: petertheplumber at att.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 07:17:59 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Microsoft Monopoly
In-Reply-To: <FB6C9534A0E943FA8A6E2D6861EDBAD3@Delta7>
References: <54305.24271.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<AANLkTikS3tAMnvxpttREq_Ac0hwLXcUMrRmy_WCkywm8@mail.gmail.com>
	<FB6C9534A0E943FA8A6E2D6861EDBAD3@Delta7>
Message-ID: <1282303079.19176.19.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

On Thu, 2010-08-19 at 10:55 -0400, Robert Adkins II wrote:
> > 
> > --- David Lane wrote:
> > 
> > > Recently I was informed that a Linux server is being replaced by a 
> > > windows 2008 server.  I started to think about ?Microsoft Monopoly? 
> > > case. MS must have a very good legal team.
> > 
> > The problem is not the "monopoly", it's the flawed perception 
> > that, somehow, Windows severs are easier/cheaper/better than 
> > *nix servers.
> > The fact is that Internet-facing Windows servers are MUCH 
> > more vulnerable to attack than Linux/BSD/Mac-based servers.  
> > I don't have the exact statistics in front of me, but from 
> > what I have seen, WAMP servers (Windows/Apache/MySQL/PHP) are 
> > more vulnerable than LAMP servers, with the Win/IIS server 
> > stack the most vulnerable of all to attack.  This means that 
> > Windows servers cost users TWICE (or more)--once for the OS, 
> > once for the added security and (to a high
> > probability) even more to clean up the mess after a 
> > successful attack; not to mention the down time needed to 
> > reboot the system(s) after the endless cycle of updates (that 
> > often cause more problems than they solve).
> > 
> > You may find more about this here:
> > <http://uptime.netcraft.com/ex/pass/pass-faq.html>
> > 
> > ~~ Michael Rudas
> >    My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
> >    My software blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com
> >    My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/protop
> >    http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey
> 
> 
>   When it is said that it is "easier" to Administer a Windows Server than a
> Linux server, what they really mean is that there are more people out in the
> wilds of the job market that are "knowledgable" about Administrating Windows
> than Linux systems. It has absolutely nothing to do with the actual
> configuration or maintaining of the resulting systems.
> 
>   Modern Linux distros are in many ways as easy or easier to setup and
> configure than comparable duty Windows servers/systems.
> 
>   -Rob

	Easier is almost never better. What Rob says about about Windows vs
*nix people can be said about almost any trade/occupation. For example
handyman vs licensed plumber. I don't get it as much anymore; because I
do mostly commercial/industrial work; but I can still hear "I can get
that at xxxxx for much less". Yes, but can you install and maintain it
correctly for a long and troublefree life? Do you want it to fail at a
critical time? See Murphys Law.
-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber



From awilliam at opengroupware.us  Fri Aug 20 08:27:05 2010
From: awilliam at opengroupware.us (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 08:27:05 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Microsoft Monopoly
In-Reply-To: <1282303079.19176.19.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
References: <54305.24271.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<AANLkTikS3tAMnvxpttREq_Ac0hwLXcUMrRmy_WCkywm8@mail.gmail.com>
	<FB6C9534A0E943FA8A6E2D6861EDBAD3@Delta7>
	<1282303079.19176.19.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <1282307225.4176.18.camel@linux-yu4c.site>

On Fri, 2010-08-20 at 07:17 -0400, Peter Bart wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-08-19 at 10:55 -0400, Robert Adkins II wrote:
> > > > Recently I was informed that a Linux server is being replaced by a 
> > > > windows 2008 server.  I started to think about ?Microsoft Monopoly? 
> > > > case. MS must have a very good legal team.
> > > The problem is not the "monopoly", it's the flawed perception 
> > > that, somehow, Windows severs are easier/cheaper/better than 
> > > *nix servers.

There are two problems with these types of discussions:

(a) what matters here is the *legal* definition of "monopoly".  Ones'
opinion about what constitutes a monopoly just don't matter.

(b) speaking of things as "better" is so vague as to be meaningless.

And lets compare setting up a LINUX host as a DC vs. setting up an SBS
instance as a DC?  Clearly setting up the LINUX host is, by any sane
definition, "harder".

> > > The fact is that Internet-facing Windows servers are MUCH 
> > > more vulnerable to attack than Linux/BSD/Mac-based servers.  
> > > I don't have the exact statistics in front of me, but from 
> > > what I have seen, WAMP servers (Windows/Apache/MySQL/PHP) are 
> > > more vulnerable than LAMP servers, with the Win/IIS server 
> > > stack the most vulnerable of all to attack.
> > When it is said that it is "easier" to Administer a Windows Server than a
> > Linux server, what they really mean is that there are more people out in the

IMO, what it really means is they-are-right.  I'm an Open Source
advocate and a UNIX/LINUX admin for ~15 years.  And I have no problem
admitting this in many regards.  The Open Source communities' insane [or
just lazy] addiction to the-txt-config-file is a serious hold-up for
LINUX deployment;  it means all admin tools, to the point that they even
exist, essentially *suck* and will eventually trash your config [acting
as anti-admin tools].  Fortunately with XML configuration, XDG, D-Bus,
etc... we are *finally* starting to move beyond the
idiot-who-thinks-sysadmin-is-proficiency-in-vi.

<rant>
Heck, even adding a CA certificate to a LINUX host's openssl [or is it
gnutls?] configuration is a stupidly arcane exercise.  So most LINUX
hosts I find [yes *most*] communicate either in-the-clear or with
certificate verification disabled.  All the while their "administrators"
jabber on about how much more secure LINUX is that Windows.  And the
response to the criticism is usually that interanet traffic is trusted.
Wow! [But do you need 802.1x authentication just to plug any laptop into
a switch?  Ha, no, you'll just get an address from DHCP.  Oh, right,
802.1x would require a working PKI configuration.... back to square
one].
</rant>

> > wilds of the job market that are "knowledgable" about Administrating Windows
> > than Linux systems. It has absolutely nothing to do with the actual
> > configuration or maintaining of the resulting systems.
> >   Modenn Linux distros are in many ways as easy or easier to setup and
> > configure than comparable duty Windows servers/systems.

And implied in the statement "in many ways as easy or easier" is the
statement "in many other ways as hard or harder".  Inherently these
kinds of statements negate themselves - they have no meaning, IMO.

> Easier is almost never better. What Rob says about about Windows vs
> *nix people can be said about almost any trade/occupation. For example
> handyman vs licensed plumber. I don't get it as much anymore; because I
> do mostly commercial/industrial work; but I can still hear "I can get
> that at xxxxx for much less". Yes, but can you install and maintain it
> correctly for a long and troublefree life?

TCO vs. what-it-costs-me-now; and age old conundrum.
-- 
Adam Tauno Williams <awilliam at whitemice.org> LPIC-1, Novell CLA
<http://www.whitemiceconsulting.com>
OpenGroupware, Cyrus IMAPd, Postfix, OpenLDAP, Samba



From billings at negate.org  Fri Aug 20 09:06:34 2010
From: billings at negate.org (Jonathan Billings)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 09:06:34 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Microsoft Monopoly
In-Reply-To: <1282307225.4176.18.camel@linux-yu4c.site>
References: <54305.24271.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<AANLkTikS3tAMnvxpttREq_Ac0hwLXcUMrRmy_WCkywm8@mail.gmail.com>
	<FB6C9534A0E943FA8A6E2D6861EDBAD3@Delta7>
	<1282303079.19176.19.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
	<1282307225.4176.18.camel@linux-yu4c.site>
Message-ID: <20100820130633.GC25863@caen-gx755.engin.umich.edu>

On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 08:27:05AM -0400, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> IMO, what it really means is they-are-right.  I'm an Open Source
> advocate and a UNIX/LINUX admin for ~15 years.  And I have no problem
> admitting this in many regards.  The Open Source communities' insane [or
> just lazy] addiction to the-txt-config-file is a serious hold-up for
> LINUX deployment;  it means all admin tools, to the point that they even
> exist, essentially *suck* and will eventually trash your config [acting
> as anti-admin tools].  Fortunately with XML configuration, XDG, D-Bus,
> etc... we are *finally* starting to move beyond the
> idiot-who-thinks-sysadmin-is-proficiency-in-vi.

Actually, I'm not sure that's a huge step in the right direction.
The windows registry shouldn't be held up as an example of the proper
way to centralize configuration.  At least with plain text, you can
put the configuration into proper version control and use a
configuration management tool to manage things centrally.

Perhaps I have "...[t]he Open Source communities' insane [or just
lazy] addiction to the-txt-config-file", but I find it easier to
manage centrally using current tools.  I don't believe it's insane or
lazy, that just comes off as elitist.  It's just the product of the
UNIX community it was spawned from.

I agree that it is annoying that every tool has it's own
domain-specific language (you hear me, sendmail?), but I'm not won
over by the Windows Registry.

> <rant>
> Heck, even adding a CA certificate to a LINUX host's openssl [or is it
> gnutls?] configuration is a stupidly arcane exercise.  So most LINUX
> hosts I find [yes *most*] communicate either in-the-clear or with
> certificate verification disabled.  All the while their "administrators"
> jabber on about how much more secure LINUX is that Windows.  And the
> response to the criticism is usually that interanet traffic is trusted.
> Wow! [But do you need 802.1x authentication just to plug any laptop into
> a switch?  Ha, no, you'll just get an address from DHCP.  Oh, right,
> 802.1x would require a working PKI configuration.... back to square
> one].
> </rant>

I'm annoyed that it's difficult to add a CA to the OS and make it work
universally.  It probably requires more of those insane, lazy text
files. 

> > > wilds of the job market that are "knowledgable" about Administrating Windows
> > > than Linux systems. It has absolutely nothing to do with the actual
> > > configuration or maintaining of the resulting systems.
> > >   Modenn Linux distros are in many ways as easy or easier to setup and
> > > configure than comparable duty Windows servers/systems.
> 
> And implied in the statement "in many ways as easy or easier" is the
> statement "in many other ways as hard or harder".  Inherently these
> kinds of statements negate themselves - they have no meaning, IMO.

In many ways, your comments make sense.

-- 
Jonathan Billings <billings at negate.org>


From awilliam at opengroupware.us  Fri Aug 20 09:26:40 2010
From: awilliam at opengroupware.us (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 09:26:40 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Microsoft Monopoly
In-Reply-To: <20100820130633.GC25863@caen-gx755.engin.umich.edu>
References: <54305.24271.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<AANLkTikS3tAMnvxpttREq_Ac0hwLXcUMrRmy_WCkywm8@mail.gmail.com>
	<FB6C9534A0E943FA8A6E2D6861EDBAD3@Delta7>
	<1282303079.19176.19.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
	<1282307225.4176.18.camel@linux-yu4c.site>
	<20100820130633.GC25863@caen-gx755.engin.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <1282310800.4176.30.camel@linux-yu4c.site>

On Fri, 2010-08-20 at 09:06 -0400, Jonathan Billings wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 08:27:05AM -0400, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> > IMO, what it really means is they-are-right.  I'm an Open Source
> > advocate and a UNIX/LINUX admin for ~15 years.  And I have no problem
> > admitting this in many regards.  The Open Source communities' insane [or
> > just lazy] addiction to the-txt-config-file is a serious hold-up for
> > LINUX deployment;  it means all admin tools, to the point that they even
> > exist, essentially *suck* and will eventually trash your config [acting
> > as anti-admin tools].  Fortunately with XML configuration, XDG, D-Bus,
> > etc... we are *finally* starting to move beyond the
> > idiot-who-thinks-sysadmin-is-proficiency-in-vi.
> Actually, I'm not sure that's a huge step in the right direction.
> The windows registry shouldn't be held up as an example of the proper
> way to centralize configuration.

This is arguing an implementation against the concept.  [And I haven't
seen a trashed windows registry in a long time anyway].  The mature
concept is Active Directory. 

>   At least with plain text, you can
> put the configuration into proper version control and use a
> configuration management tool to manage things centrally.

Sure, *you* can.  But that's just the point.  Everyone roll-your-own
solution to system administration isn't good system administration.  You
get hit by a bus.... and pity the poor fool who has to come in to manage
your systems.

> Perhaps I have "...[t]he Open Source communities' insane [or just
> lazy] addiction to the-txt-config-file", but I find it easier to
> manage centrally using current tools.  I don't believe it's insane or
> lazy, that just comes off as elitist. 

Ok, I'm elitist.  I don't have any problem with that.

> It's just the product of the UNIX community it was spawned from.
> I agree that it is annoying that every tool has it's own
> domain-specific language (you hear me, sendmail?), but I'm not won
> over by the Windows Registry.

Again, Windows Registry is merely an implementation.

> > <rant>
> > Heck, even adding a CA certificate to a LINUX host's openssl [or is it
> > gnutls?] configuration is a stupidly arcane exercise.  So most LINUX
> > hosts I find [yes *most*] communicate either in-the-clear or with
> > certificate verification disabled.  All the while their "administrators"
> > jabber on about how much more secure LINUX is that Windows.  And the
> > response to the criticism is usually that interanet traffic is trusted.
> > Wow! [But do you need 802.1x authentication just to plug any laptop into
> > a switch?  Ha, no, you'll just get an address from DHCP.  Oh, right,
> > 802.1x would require a working PKI configuration.... back to square
> > one].
> > </rant>
> I'm annoyed that it's difficult to add a CA to the OS and make it work
> universally. 

Yep.

>  It probably requires more of those insane, lazy text files. 

No, you have to run the command "/usr/bin/c_rehash"  Eh?  Wow, is that
poorly documented.  And it still won't work because just about every app
and service on UNIX/LINUX rolls-it-own certificate discovery solution.  

> > > > wilds of the job market that are "knowledgable" about Administrating Windows
> > > > than Linux systems. It has absolutely nothing to do with the actual
> > > > configuration or maintaining of the resulting systems.
> > > >   Modenn Linux distros are in many ways as easy or easier to setup and
> > > > configure than comparable duty Windows servers/systems.
> > And implied in the statement "in many ways as easy or easier" is the
> > statement "in many other ways as hard or harder".  Inherently these
> > kinds of statements negate themselves - they have no meaning, IMO.
> In many ways, your comments make sense.





From radkins at impelind.com  Fri Aug 20 10:20:01 2010
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins II)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 10:20:01 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Microsoft Monopoly
In-Reply-To: <1282310800.4176.30.camel@linux-yu4c.site>
References: <54305.24271.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com><AANLkTikS3tAMnvxpttREq_Ac0hwLXcUMrRmy_WCkywm8@mail.gmail.com><FB6C9534A0E943FA8A6E2D6861EDBAD3@Delta7><1282303079.19176.19.camel@plumber-notebook.site><1282307225.4176.18.camel@linux-yu4c.site><20100820130633.GC25863@caen-gx755.engin.umich.edu>
	<1282310800.4176.30.camel@linux-yu4c.site>
Message-ID: <E540465D86AB48FA94816DC96B1E4F44@Delta7>


> 
> This is arguing an implementation against the concept.  [And 
> I haven't seen a trashed windows registry in a long time 
> anyway].  The mature concept is Active Directory. 
> 

  You haven't seen it because Microsoft has developed "failsafes" to hide
corrupted registries from the user/admin space. It continually duplicates
the registry into a "safe zone" and will "quietly" restore good
configurations if it discoveres corruption in the registry.

  That is not an ideal solution in my book.

  The plain text files used on Linux/UNIX are more robust. One thing that I
have seen being put into play over the last 15 years that I have been
administrating Linux is a combination of the plain text, for robustness, and
a binary "stack" for speed. (Which is the only real advantage a clean
Windows Registry has over a clean Linux install for configuration access,
it's faster than reading plain text files.)

  As for Administration Tools, those are becoming better and easier to use
all of the time. In fact, some of them are really awesome in that you have
the same interface, whether you are looking at it via a GUI or via an SSH
Shell. (I'm talking about Yast2 on the SuSe platform, which has been
consistent between GUI and CLI for so many years that I can't remember when
it wasn't.)

  There's plenty of easy to use configuration tools for Linux, such as the
Webmin system and Yast2 as two prime examples.

  They both have GUI tools for building CA, and "Active Directory" setups.

> >   At least with plain text, you can
> > put the configuration into proper version control and use a 
> > configuration management tool to manage things centrally.
> 
> Sure, *you* can.  But that's just the point.  Everyone 
> roll-your-own solution to system administration isn't good 
> system administration.  You get hit by a bus.... and pity the 
> poor fool who has to come in to manage your systems.
> 

  The configuration file for Samba is the same, no matter what server you go
to. The only real differences are what it calls for external/internal
authentication, the names of shares and permissions. If someone who claims
to be fluent in Samba administration is unable to walk up, review the
configuration file itself or is unable to fire up Swat or Webmin or
what-have-you-GUI-tool and see what it is doing and how to manage it, then
they really aren't fluent in Samba, period.

  The same can be said for virtually any and all other services that you can
run on Linux. The concept of each admin building a completlely different and
unreadable by another admin configuration file on Linux is a dead concept.

  -Rob



From billings at negate.org  Fri Aug 20 13:16:03 2010
From: billings at negate.org (Jonathan Billings)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 13:16:03 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Microsoft Monopoly
In-Reply-To: <1282310800.4176.30.camel@linux-yu4c.site>
References: <54305.24271.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<AANLkTikS3tAMnvxpttREq_Ac0hwLXcUMrRmy_WCkywm8@mail.gmail.com>
	<FB6C9534A0E943FA8A6E2D6861EDBAD3@Delta7>
	<1282303079.19176.19.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
	<1282307225.4176.18.camel@linux-yu4c.site>
	<20100820130633.GC25863@caen-gx755.engin.umich.edu>
	<1282310800.4176.30.camel@linux-yu4c.site>
Message-ID: <20100820171602.GA2722@caen-gx755.engin.umich.edu>

On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 09:26:40AM -0400, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> >   At least with plain text, you can
> > put the configuration into proper version control and use a
> > configuration management tool to manage things centrally.
> 
> Sure, *you* can.  But that's just the point.  Everyone roll-your-own
> solution to system administration isn't good system administration.  You
> get hit by a bus.... and pity the poor fool who has to come in to manage
> your systems.

I disagree, using configuration management software *IS* good system
administration.  

The use of version control and a central configuration management
infrastructure is one of the reasons why it is easier for the "poor
fool" to take over.  Changes are documented, and they all come from a
central location.  Check out Puppet, CFengine, Bcfg2, Chef, Radmind,
etc. 

I've run into too many inexperienced sysadmins who just log in to
each system and configured them individually, or reinvented a
management infrastructure completely in their own private world.
Considering you've been a UNIX/Linux admin for 15 years, I'm sure
you've experienced the benefits of a properly managed infrastructure.
It's not reasonable to make a change per-system anymore, although I do
still use vi to edit files before checking them in to the VCS. 

--

I think the reason there is no central registry for all configuration
languages is due to the fact that Linux (and UNIX) has a considerable
amount of history using text files for configuration.  MS was able to
pull off a central registry largely because of it's absolute control
over the OS and it's office products.

On the other hand, there is a diverse source of open source software,
and getting everyone to agree on something like a central
configuration database is rather difficult.  This is why there are a
handful of very popular desktop environments, each with their own
unique capabilities.  It is the nature of an open environment. 

There have been attempts to create a generic configuration
infrastructure in the past (ASN.1? NetInfo?) and several current
implementations (XDG, GConf) but no unified interface.

I've actually found that Augeas (http://augeas.net/) is an interesting
solution to the many-text-config file problem.  It makes the settings
in configuration files available in a tree-like object that you can
manage from a single API, even from a shell script.


-- 
Jonathan Billings <billings at negate.org>


From jrw32982 at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 20 14:02:02 2010
From: jrw32982 at yahoo.com (John Wiersba)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 11:02:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Microsoft Monopoly
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1282320002.17228.mdlug@mdlug.org>
References: <mailman.1.1282320002.17228.mdlug@mdlug.org>
Message-ID: <965469.25341.qm@web52702.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 08:27:05AM -0400, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> IMO, what it really means is they-are-right.  I'm an Open Source
> advocate and a UNIX/LINUX admin for ~15 years.  And I have no problem
> admitting this in many regards.  The Open Source communities' insane [or
> just lazy] addiction to the-txt-config-file is a serious hold-up for
> LINUX deployment;  it means all admin tools, to the point that they even
> exist, essentially *suck* and will eventually trash your config [acting
> as anti-admin tools].  Fortunately with XML configuration, XDG, D-Bus,
> etc... we are *finally* starting to move beyond the
> idiot-who-thinks-sysadmin-is-proficiency-in-vi.

Not being a sysadmin, but having used unix/linux as my primary work/home 
environment for 18 years, I can say that text configuration files are *not* the 
problem and are, in many ways, *much* better than other solutions.  I, for one, 
am very happy about linux/unix's insane/lazy addiction to text config files.  It 
enables many things that are extremely hard to achieve with other approaches.  
Not to say that it doesn't have its drawbacks.  For many sysadmin functions, I 
suppose lack of standardization/centralization is a drawback.  As an aside, I 
don't know that anyone would think vi is the be-all-end-all of sysadmin 
proficiency.

As was said in subsequent comments, it's the fact that there are so many 
roll-your-own, under-documented formats that causes some things to be "harder" 
in the linux world.  The roll-your-own approach to computers is both a strength 
and a weakness, just as it is in biology and society in general.  But overall, I 
believe that it is much more robust and scalable than the-one-true-way approach.

It is in the domain of linux/unix distributions to provide for the tools and 
translation layers that make standardized/centralized administration possible 
and reduce the need to understand all the nuances of thousands of separate 
packages and their configuration formats.  Distributions can do the work to make 
their packages play well together.

Finally, I feel obligated to point out that the Windows registry is an 
abomination, both in concept and implementation.  As much as I am not impressed 
by most things Microsoft, I am still flabbergasted that such a poor design could 
make it into Windows.  Hopefully linux projects will stay far away from that 
approach.

-- John


      


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 21 12:28:48 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 09:28:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Microsoft Monopoly
In-Reply-To: <1282303079.19176.19.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
References: <54305.24271.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<AANLkTikS3tAMnvxpttREq_Ac0hwLXcUMrRmy_WCkywm8@mail.gmail.com>
	<FB6C9534A0E943FA8A6E2D6861EDBAD3@Delta7>
	<1282303079.19176.19.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <794159.96846.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Peter,

That is my frustration. They are baking a big mistake by chosing the path of 
least resistance. then when the web services bottleneck and those systems are 
brought to their knees and the leadership hold IT responsable for the problems.

David C. Lane 




________________________________
From: Peter Bart <petertheplumber at att.net>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Fri, August 20, 2010 4:17:59 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] OT: Microsoft Monopoly

On Thu, 2010-08-19 at 10:55 -0400, Robert Adkins II wrote:
> > 
> > --- David Lane wrote:
> > 
> > > Recently I was informed that a Linux server is being replaced by a 
> > > windows 2008 server.? I started to think about ?Microsoft Monopoly? 
> > > case. MS must have a very good legal team.
> > 
> > The problem is not the "monopoly", it's the flawed perception 
> > that, somehow, Windows severs are easier/cheaper/better than 
> > *nix servers.
> > The fact is that Internet-facing Windows servers are MUCH 
> > more vulnerable to attack than Linux/BSD/Mac-based servers.? 
> > I don't have the exact statistics in front of me, but from 
> > what I have seen, WAMP servers (Windows/Apache/MySQL/PHP) are 
> > more vulnerable than LAMP servers, with the Win/IIS server 
> > stack the most vulnerable of all to attack.? This means that 
> > Windows servers cost users TWICE (or more)--once for the OS, 
> > once for the added security and (to a high
> > probability) even more to clean up the mess after a 
> > successful attack; not to mention the down time needed to 
> > reboot the system(s) after the endless cycle of updates (that 
> > often cause more problems than they solve).
> > 
> > You may find more about this here:
> > <http://uptime.netcraft.com/ex/pass/pass-faq.html>
> > 
> > ~~ Michael Rudas
> >? ? My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
> >? ? My software blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com
> >? ? My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/protop
> >? ? http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey
> 
> 
>? When it is said that it is "easier" to Administer a Windows Server than a
> Linux server, what they really mean is that there are more people out in the
> wilds of the job market that are "knowledgable" about Administrating Windows
> than Linux systems. It has absolutely nothing to do with the actual
> configuration or maintaining of the resulting systems.
> 
>? Modern Linux distros are in many ways as easy or easier to setup and
> configure than comparable duty Windows servers/systems.
> 
>? -Rob

??? Easier is almost never better. What Rob says about about Windows vs
*nix people can be said about almost any trade/occupation. For example
handyman vs licensed plumber. I don't get it as much anymore; because I
do mostly commercial/industrial work; but I can still hear "I can get
that at xxxxx for much less". Yes, but can you install and maintain it
correctly for a long and troublefree life? Do you want it to fail at a
critical time? See Murphys Law.
-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


      


From Stan at mcomputersolutions.com  Sat Aug 21 13:09:47 2010
From: Stan at mcomputersolutions.com (Stan Green)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 13:09:47 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Grub error 17
In-Reply-To: <4C6E0AB6.4090101@bellsouth.net>
References: <201008192009.32702.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
	<4C6E0AB6.4090101@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <201008211309.48083.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>

Thanks for the suggestion.

The USB drive was not in the machine when the system was installed, so there is 
no way GRUB could have seen it as a boot drive. 

The machine was booting fine until I messed with dbus and hal. This may or may 
not be related to the error 17.

Any other thoughts?

Thanks,
Stan

On Friday 20 August 2010 12:55:18 am Dr. Robert Meier wrote:
> Stan,
>
> I regret that I don't have a complete answer handy,
> but I hope the following will help.
>
> For further details, consider reading the lengthy exchange at
>     http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=120802
>
> I suspect, initrd, the ram disk boot loader[1],
> was assembled at grub-install time
> with a map of devices different from that at boot time.
>
> <example>
> grub was installed on a hard disk in one host,
> where directing the bios to download from hd1
> loaded the kernel from the hard disk,
> and then the hard disk was placed in a different host,
> where directing the bios to download from hd1
> failed to load the kernel from the cd drive.
> </example>
>
> In your case I suspect the usb drive was installed when you
> ran grub-install(?) to "setup grub" and its presence
> altered the map of bios devices to unix devices
> (e.g. hd0 vs hd1 mapped to /dev/hda vs /dev/usb0),
> so that it differed from that reported by the bios
> during a later boot.  As I would expect the bios
> to map all non-removable devices exclusively or
> before any removable devices, the only way I
> can imagine your problem arising,
> requires time-overlapping installation and removal
> of an atapi (ide-scsi) or other such transient
> device.
>
>
>
> <hint>
> If my assumptions are correct,
> the deterministic solution is to boot an
> appropriate[2] rescue system
> (e.g. SuSE Rescue Disk) and "boot from hard disk",
> thus bypassing the hard disk mbr and initrd.
> You can then run grub-install with the correct
> device map.
> </hint>
>
> <hint>
> If my assumptions are correct,
> a more practical approach is to repeatedly
>    1. boot a rescue system
>    2. mount the hard disk, and edit /boot/boot/device.map on hard disk
>    3. shut down rescue system and remove live cd
>    4. attempt to boot from hard disk (without rescue system)
>    5. repeat steps 1-4 until 4 is successful
> In step 2 of each repetition, try a different pairing of
>    (hd0), (hd1), (hd2), ...
> and
>    /dev/hda, /dev/hdb, ...
> I would expect a successful boot in less than 7 attempts.
> (I would expect (hd0) /dev/hda to be most probable.)
> </hint>
>
>
>
> Once you have a successful build, I suggest that you
> use grub to reinstall cleanly so that this vexing
> problem does not bite again in future updates.
>
>
>
> [1] initrd is a small operating system image used to load a kernel
> that cannot be loaded by bios (usually too large or resident on
> a device not supported by bios).
>
> [2] Most simpler "rescue disk"s are merely and adjunct
> to an installation, probably reboot via bios,
> and would not be appropriate.  A better rescue disk will let
> you select the bootable partition, act as a "chain loader",
> and skip the bios "boot loader".
>
> On 08/19/10 20:09, Stan Green wrote:
> > I moved my wife's computer form SUSE 11 to Debian Lenny. I took a minimal
> > install approach and added what she needed. I had it almost done, just
> > needed to get USB working for a normal user, as I could only mount one as
> > root. (This is not the primary issue now! I'll come back to that later.)
> >
> > So, I was messing around with dbus and hal configuration. Nothing was
> > working so I put almost everything back the way it was (I missed a policy
> > section in hal.conf that gave her user ID the same rights  as root.)  I
> > then rebooted, but I forgot to take the USB flash drive out of the port.
> >
> > So up come GRUB error 17. My web searching turned up that error 17 is:
> > "This error is returned if the partition requested exists, but the
> > filesystem type cannot be recognized by GRUB. "  I do not even get to the
> > GRUB menu. After spending hours on line trying everthing I can find, I am
> > pulling my (virtual) hair out. Using Knoppix, I have run GRUB setup on
> > the first hardrive, I have done the fidisk to fix the partation table. I
> > have run fsck on both the boot partition and the root partation.  Nothing
> > has worked.
> >
> > So, could I have messed up something with dbus or hal that would keep the
> > machine from booting? Could leaving the USB drive in caused some change?
>
> hal.  Yes, but AFAIK, another "mounted device removal" was required,
> e.g. running kernel on atapi mounted partition.
>
> > Is there anything else that might be keeping GRUB from recognizing the
> > file system?
>
> A purely coincidental disk corruption of the boot image
> could have the same symptoms,
> but fsck and grub setup should have corrected the corruption.
>
> Hopefully helpful,
> --
> Bob
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 21 13:38:55 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 10:38:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Microsoft Monopoly
In-Reply-To: <794159.96846.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <54305.24271.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<AANLkTikS3tAMnvxpttREq_Ac0hwLXcUMrRmy_WCkywm8@mail.gmail.com>
	<FB6C9534A0E943FA8A6E2D6861EDBAD3@Delta7>
	<1282303079.19176.19.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
	<794159.96846.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <447928.89052.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>






________________________________
From: David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com>
To: petertheplumber at att.net; MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Sat, August 21, 2010 9:28:48 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] OT: Microsoft Monopoly

Peter,

That is my frustration. They are MAKING a big mistake by chosing the path of 
least resistance. then when the web services bottleneck and those systems are 
brought to their knees and the leadership hold IT responsable for the problems.

David C. Lane 




________________________________
From: Peter Bart <petertheplumber at att.net>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Fri, August 20, 2010 4:17:59 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] OT: Microsoft Monopoly

On Thu, 2010-08-19 at 10:55 -0400, Robert Adkins II wrote:
> > 
> > --- David Lane wrote:
> > 
> > > Recently I was informed that a Linux server is being replaced by a 
> > > windows 2008 server.? I started to think about ?Microsoft Monopoly? 
> > > case. MS must have a very good legal team.
> > 
> > The problem is not the "monopoly", it's the flawed perception 
> > that, somehow, Windows severs are easier/cheaper/better than 
> > *nix servers.
> > The fact is that Internet-facing Windows servers are MUCH 
> > more vulnerable to attack than Linux/BSD/Mac-based servers.? 
> > I don't have the exact statistics in front of me, but from 
> > what I have seen, WAMP servers (Windows/Apache/MySQL/PHP) are 
> > more vulnerable than LAMP servers, with the Win/IIS server 
> > stack the most vulnerable of all to attack.? This means that 
> > Windows servers cost users TWICE (or more)--once for the OS, 
> > once for the added security and (to a high
> > probability) even more to clean up the mess after a 
> > successful attack; not to mention the down time needed to 
> > reboot the system(s) after the endless cycle of updates (that 
> > often cause more problems than they solve).
> > 
> > You may find more about this here:
> > <http://uptime.netcraft.com/ex/pass/pass-faq.html>
> > 
> > ~~ Michael Rudas
> >? ? My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
> >? ? My software blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com
> >? ? My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/protop
> >? ? http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey
> 
> 
>? When it is said that it is "easier" to Administer a Windows Server than a
> Linux server, what they really mean is that there are more people out in the
> wilds of the job market that are "knowledgable" about Administrating Windows
> than Linux systems. It has absolutely nothing to do with the actual
> configuration or maintaining of the resulting systems.
> 
>? Modern Linux distros are in many ways as easy or easier to setup and
> configure than comparable duty Windows servers/systems.
> 
>? -Rob

??? Easier is almost never better. What Rob says about about Windows vs
*nix people can be said about almost any trade/occupation. For example
handyman vs licensed plumber. I don't get it as much anymore; because I
do mostly commercial/industrial work; but I can still hear "I can get
that at xxxxx for much less". Yes, but can you install and maintain it
correctly for a long and troublefree life? Do you want it to fail at a
critical time? See Murphys Law.
-- 
Best Regards,

Peter The Plumber

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


? ? ? 
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


      


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sat Aug 21 15:33:25 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 15:33:25 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Grub error 17
In-Reply-To: <201008211309.48083.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
References: <201008192009.32702.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
	<4C6E0AB6.4090101@bellsouth.net>
	<201008211309.48083.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin1GVCtL=hJzOs5aQLsxRqoUBbzS8AKu_3kVjk=@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 1:09 PM, Stan Green <Stan at mcomputersolutions.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the suggestion.
>
> The USB drive was not in the machine when the system was installed, so there is
> no way GRUB could have seen it as a boot drive.
>
> The machine was booting fine until I messed with dbus and hal. This may or may
> not be related to the error 17.
>

Depending on BIOS settings the drive boot order/number may change if
another bootable drive is added (like a USB drive).  One solution is
to disable USB booting.  If Grub is installed when a USB drive is
connected during boot/POST then boot drive number it set in the MBR
will be wrong if the drive is removed later.

A similar situation involves RAID1 configurations when you want to be
able to boot from the second drive when the first fails.  You have to
install Grub to the second drive configured as if it was the first
otherwise it won't boot when the first is removed.


From Stan at mcomputersolutions.com  Sun Aug 22 21:05:51 2010
From: Stan at mcomputersolutions.com (Stan Green)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 21:05:51 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Grub error 17 (solved)
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTin1GVCtL=hJzOs5aQLsxRqoUBbzS8AKu_3kVjk=@mail.gmail.com>
References: <201008192009.32702.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
	<201008211309.48083.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
	<AANLkTin1GVCtL=hJzOs5aQLsxRqoUBbzS8AKu_3kVjk=@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201008222105.51819.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>

Thanks Jeff!

I think this is what happened. I have two hard drives and they were swapped, I 
assume by the BIOS. I also notices that Knoppix sees the drives in the reverse 
order from Debian. So in Knoppix, it looked fine. I fixed it by booting to 
SuperGrub and was able to find the issue and get the system working again.

Regards,
Stan

On Saturday 21 August 2010 03:33:25 pm you wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 1:09 PM, Stan Green <Stan at mcomputersolutions.com> 
wrote:
> > Thanks for the suggestion.
> >
> > The USB drive was not in the machine when the system was installed, so
> > there is no way GRUB could have seen it as a boot drive.
> >
> > The machine was booting fine until I messed with dbus and hal. This may
> > or may not be related to the error 17.
>
> Depending on BIOS settings the drive boot order/number may change if
> another bootable drive is added (like a USB drive).  One solution is
> to disable USB booting.  If Grub is installed when a USB drive is
> connected during boot/POST then boot drive number it set in the MBR
> will be wrong if the drive is removed later.
>
> A similar situation involves RAID1 configurations when you want to be
> able to boot from the second drive when the first fails.  You have to
> install Grub to the second drive configured as if it was the first
> otherwise it won't boot when the first is removed.




From elcarew at sbcglobal.net  Wed Aug 25 08:28:42 2010
From: elcarew at sbcglobal.net (Evan Carew)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 08:28:42 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Apache and Config for files outside of www dir
In-Reply-To: <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE469022FDBADB1@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
References: <20100810.102733.3861.0@webmail23.vgs.untd.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE469022FDBADB1@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
Message-ID: <4C750C7A.3060902@sbcglobal.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

You know, I'm interested in this topic as well. Professionally, I do web
development for FRY and Grandriver of Ann Arbor, and I had trouble
getting my new FC11 laptop config to work in an office environment the
way I wanted it to. A rather frustrating experience for someone who has
used Linux for the last 10 years. Much like the originator of this
thread, I wanted to do web development outside of /var/www, in this
case, my /home/me/Projects directory. I was under the impression that I
could use soft links, or aliases, but nothing worked. There was always
some security complaint from Apache. Out of frustration I eventually
ended up using NFS with the squash all parameter. That fixed it, but at
a performance cost I'm still not happy about. If anyone is currently
using an alternative method which actually works (example httpd.conf
would be appreciated) I think we could all benifit.

On 08/10/2010 11:52 AM, Wojtak, Greg wrote:
> Instead of creating a soft link, you could, in your httpd.conf, do
>
> Alias /mystuff/ /media/mydrivename/mystuff/
>
> Then you might need a Directory entry for /mystuff/
>
> <Directory /media/mydrivename/mystuff>
>    Options Indexes
>    AllowOverride None
>    Order allow,deny
>    Allow from all
> </Directory>
>
> You may need to tweak some of the directives in the
<Directory></Directory> block, but that should be a relatively
straightforward method of doing what you are trying to do.
>
> Greg
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On
Behalf Of gib at juno.com
> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 10:28 AM
> To: mdlug at mdlug.org
> Subject: [mdlug] Apache and Config for files outside of www dir
>
> I'm trying to set up my web server to allow me to have the files on my
large drive assessable.  I'm running into what, I assume, is a security
issue that someone would be able help with.
>
[snip]
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)

iEUEARECAAYFAkx1DHcACgkQpxCQXwV2bJCoaQCbBKPXHMMhMiXG0l4YFZKHX/r1
QKcAmNeenJX3pmGm8k/oH4BFXklMd/8=
=2DOm
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From fativi at gmail.com  Wed Aug 25 09:03:47 2010
From: fativi at gmail.com (Brian)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 09:03:47 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Apache and Config for files outside of www dir
In-Reply-To: <4C750C7A.3060902@sbcglobal.net>
References: <20100810.102733.3861.0@webmail23.vgs.untd.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE469022FDBADB1@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4C750C7A.3060902@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimdeqx1-nmkdk1-AyrNpQkBLbXnteCx_NtzsV8D@mail.gmail.com>

NFS to replace symlinks? That's a bit like swatting a fly with a scud missle
:) Honestly there shouldn't be any problems with using symlinks so long as
the apache config allows it and the user that runs apache has access to your
projects folder.

On Aug 25, 2010 8:35 AM, "Evan Carew" <elcarew at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> You know, I'm interested in this topic as well. Professionally, I do web
> development for FRY and Grandriver of Ann Arbor, and I had trouble
> getting my new FC11 laptop config to work in an office environment the
> way I wanted it to. A rather frustrating experience for someone who has
> used Linux for the last 10 years. Much like the originator of this
> thread, I wanted to do web development outside of /var/www, in this
> case, my /home/me/Projects directory. I was under the impression that I
> could use soft links, or aliases, but nothing worked. There was always
> some security complaint from Apache. Out of frustration I eventually
> ended up using NFS with the squash all parameter. That fixed it, but at
> a performance cost I'm still not happy about. If anyone is currently
> using an alternative method which actually works (example httpd.conf
> would be appreciated) I think we could all benifit.
>
> On 08/10/2010 11:52 AM, Wojtak, Greg wrote:
>> Instead of creating a soft link, you could, in your httpd.conf, do
>>
>> Alias /mystuff/ /media/mydrivename/mystuff/
>>
>> Then you might need a Directory entry for /mystuff/
>>
>> <Directory /media/mydrivename/mystuff>
>> Options Indexes
>> AllowOverride None
>> Order allow,deny
>> Allow from all
>> </Directory>
>>
>> You may need to tweak some of the directives in the
> <Directory></Directory> block, but that should be a relatively
> straightforward method of doing what you are trying to do.
>>
>> Greg
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On
> Behalf Of gib at juno.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 10:28 AM
>> To: mdlug at mdlug.org
>> Subject: [mdlug] Apache and Config for files outside of www dir
>>
>> I'm trying to set up my web server to allow me to have the files on my
> large drive assessable. I'm running into what, I assume, is a security
> issue that someone would be able help with.
>>
> [snip]
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iEUEARECAAYFAkx1DHcACgkQpxCQXwV2bJCoaQCbBKPXHMMhMiXG0l4YFZKHX/r1
> QKcAmNeenJX3pmGm8k/oH4BFXklMd/8=
> =2DOm
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From painbank at gmail.com  Wed Aug 25 09:59:52 2010
From: painbank at gmail.com (Rich Elswick)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 09:59:52 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Apache and Config for files outside of www dir
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimdeqx1-nmkdk1-AyrNpQkBLbXnteCx_NtzsV8D@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100810.102733.3861.0@webmail23.vgs.untd.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE469022FDBADB1@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4C750C7A.3060902@sbcglobal.net>
	<AANLkTimdeqx1-nmkdk1-AyrNpQkBLbXnteCx_NtzsV8D@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=WO5PvDhhKjQ4-N6TVjE=ws6iBmzUFe7igsQLN@mail.gmail.com>

Take a look at how Subversion and WebDav  does it as you can expose
your svn directories via WebDav (sp?) On Apache.

Rich

On 8/25/10, Brian <fativi at gmail.com> wrote:
> NFS to replace symlinks? That's a bit like swatting a fly with a scud missle
> :) Honestly there shouldn't be any problems with using symlinks so long as
> the apache config allows it and the user that runs apache has access to your
> projects folder.
>
> On Aug 25, 2010 8:35 AM, "Evan Carew" <elcarew at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> You know, I'm interested in this topic as well. Professionally, I do web
>> development for FRY and Grandriver of Ann Arbor, and I had trouble
>> getting my new FC11 laptop config to work in an office environment the
>> way I wanted it to. A rather frustrating experience for someone who has
>> used Linux for the last 10 years. Much like the originator of this
>> thread, I wanted to do web development outside of /var/www, in this
>> case, my /home/me/Projects directory. I was under the impression that I
>> could use soft links, or aliases, but nothing worked. There was always
>> some security complaint from Apache. Out of frustration I eventually
>> ended up using NFS with the squash all parameter. That fixed it, but at
>> a performance cost I'm still not happy about. If anyone is currently
>> using an alternative method which actually works (example httpd.conf
>> would be appreciated) I think we could all benifit.
>>
>> On 08/10/2010 11:52 AM, Wojtak, Greg wrote:
>>> Instead of creating a soft link, you could, in your httpd.conf, do
>>>
>>> Alias /mystuff/ /media/mydrivename/mystuff/
>>>
>>> Then you might need a Directory entry for /mystuff/
>>>
>>> <Directory /media/mydrivename/mystuff>
>>> Options Indexes
>>> AllowOverride None
>>> Order allow,deny
>>> Allow from all
>>> </Directory>
>>>
>>> You may need to tweak some of the directives in the
>> <Directory></Directory> block, but that should be a relatively
>> straightforward method of doing what you are trying to do.
>>>
>>> Greg
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On
>> Behalf Of gib at juno.com
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 10:28 AM
>>> To: mdlug at mdlug.org
>>> Subject: [mdlug] Apache and Config for files outside of www dir
>>>
>>> I'm trying to set up my web server to allow me to have the files on my
>> large drive assessable. I'm running into what, I assume, is a security
>> issue that someone would be able help with.
>>>
>> [snip]
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
>>
>> iEUEARECAAYFAkx1DHcACgkQpxCQXwV2bJCoaQCbBKPXHMMhMiXG0l4YFZKHX/r1
>> QKcAmNeenJX3pmGm8k/oH4BFXklMd/8=
>> =2DOm
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mdlug mailing list
>> mdlug at mdlug.org
>> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>

-- 
Sent from my mobile device

Rich Elswick


From gib at juno.com  Wed Aug 25 14:02:25 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 18:02:25 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] Fw: [ubuntu-us-mi] REMINDER - Global Jam *this* Saturday
Message-ID: <20100825.140225.18747.0@webmail07.vgs.untd.com>

FYI

---------- Forwarded Message ----------
From: Greg Grossmeier <greg at grossmeier.net>
To: Michigan Ubuntu Local Community Team <ubuntu-us-mi at lists.ubuntu.com>
Subject: [ubuntu-us-mi] REMINDER - Global Jam *this* Saturday
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 12:17:50 -0400

This is your friendly reminder to register for this weekend's Michigan 
edition of the Global Jam in downtown Ann Arbor.

All the details and registration information is here:
http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/321/detail/

To register just login (it uses your Launchpad account) the click on the 
"Register for this Event" link.

Hope to see you all there!

Greg

-- 
|       Greg Grossmeier |
| http://grossmeier.net |

-- 
ubuntu-us-mi mailing list
ubuntu-us-mi at lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-mi
____________________________________________________________
Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance
If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4c755ad3e208c88f375st04vuc


From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Wed Aug 25 18:23:06 2010
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Dr. Robert Meier)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 18:23:06 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Apache and Config for files outside of www dir
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=WO5PvDhhKjQ4-N6TVjE=ws6iBmzUFe7igsQLN@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100810.102733.3861.0@webmail23.vgs.untd.com>	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE469022FDBADB1@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>	<4C750C7A.3060902@sbcglobal.net>	<AANLkTimdeqx1-nmkdk1-AyrNpQkBLbXnteCx_NtzsV8D@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=WO5PvDhhKjQ4-N6TVjE=ws6iBmzUFe7igsQLN@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C7597CA.5030606@bellsouth.net>

Rich, Evan, Greg, ...

>> On Aug 25, 2010 8:35 AM, "Evan Carew" <elcarew at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> Much like the originator of this thread,
>>> I wanted to do web development outside of /var/www,
>>> in this case, my /home/me/Projects directory.
>>> I was under the impression that I could use soft links, or aliases, but nothing worked.

Symlink references cannot be integrity checked directly by apache
(The file name "/home/projects" and the delivered content can be
checked but not the intermediate contents.).

Consequently apache won't follow symlinks by default.

In concert with other features "Options FollowSymlinks" can direct the
server to use symlinks.

	---- /etc/apache2/httpd.conf.local ----
...
# Prepared Presentations
Alias /presentations/ "/home/presenter/presentations/speeches/"

<Directory "/home/presenter/presentations/speeches">
 Options Indexes MultiViews FollowSymLinks
 AllowOverride None
 Order allow,deny
 Allow from all
</Directory>
...
	---- /etc/apache2/httpd.conf.local ----

Alias <string-to-match> <replacement-string>
  - operates on URIs given to server
  - / leading and trailing / restrict match to a hierarchy
<Directory ...>
  - identifies namespace scope to which overrides are to be applied
Options ...
  - changes to apply in given scope
Indexes
  - if URI maps to a directory
  - and there is no index page (e.g. index.html)
  - return a virtual index page
  - rather than refuse delivery (i.e. apache default)
  - or return entire directory (HTML standard)
MultiViews
  - return page in requesters choice of format
  - (e.g. convert picture.gif file in directory to jpeg
     if URI is .../picture.jpg)
FollowSymLinks
  - chain access along soft links (i.e. normal unix behavior)
AllowOverride None
  - terminate change application chain for this scope
  - (i.e. ignore .htacces, etc. in directory)
Order allow,deny
  - expand by allow before restricting deny
Allow from all
  - deliver to any requester

See http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/sections.html for further details.

>>>> You may need to tweak some of the directives in the
>>> <Directory></Directory> block, but that should be a relatively
>>> straightforward method of doing what you are trying to do.

Hopefully helpful,
--
Bob


From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Thu Aug 26 02:07:26 2010
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Dr. Robert Meier)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 02:07:26 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] /sbin/route sending dns request for numeric addresses
Message-ID: <4C76049E.1080403@bellsouth.net>

Netters,

I recently installed openSuSE-11.2 on a laptop,
and would appreciate any help with a few problems.


1. /sbin/route takes ~75 seconds to report a 4-line routing table.
    Kernel IP routing table                             <- immediate
    Destination     Gateway         Genmask         ...    <- immediate
    192.168.xxx.0   *               255.255.255.0   ...    <- 15SEC
    link-local      *               255.255.0.0     ...    <- immediate
    loopback        *               255.0.0.0       ...    <- immediate
    default         192.168.1.254   0.0.0.0         ...    <- 25SEC
   immediate is less than 1sec
   15SEC and 25SEC seem excessive to me for these two lines
   No new lines appear in /var/log/message, /var/log/*, nor dmesg output

2. If ipv6 support is enabled
   yast2> [Networks Devices] [Network Settings] [Global Options]
          Enable IPv6: [<checked>]
   The network devices (only eth0 so far) never come up,
     and the route table contains only link-local and loopback lines.

3. software repositories fail to refresh
   yast2> [Software] [Software Repositories]
          [openSuSE-11.2-Oss] [Refresh/Refresh Now]
        reports fails to donwload
          http;//download.opensuse.org/
            distribution/11.2/repo/oss/media.1/media
        likewise for all (tds, utexas, ...) mirrors tried
          bash> curl -v <same uri>
        successfully retrieves apparently correct data.
   /var/log/messages only reiterates download failure.


To workaround problem 1,
   I added localdomain[192.168.xxx.0] and default[0.0.0.0]
     to /etc/networks
   and gateway[192.168.xxx.254] to /etc/hosts.
Why is this necessary?
strace /sbin/route reported a socket openned to 192.168.xxx.254:53
  and write 192.168.xxx.0 attempted twice.
Why does /sbin/route ask the dns server for an ip
  address for 192.168.xxx.0 which is already an
  ip address (as xxx is actually an integer)?

TIA,
--
Bob


From billings at negate.org  Thu Aug 26 08:39:56 2010
From: billings at negate.org (Jonathan Billings)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 08:39:56 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Apache and Config for files outside of www dir
In-Reply-To: <4C750C7A.3060902@sbcglobal.net>
References: <20100810.102733.3861.0@webmail23.vgs.untd.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE469022FDBADB1@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4C750C7A.3060902@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <20100826123956.GA13145@caen-gx755.engin.umich.edu>

On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 08:28:42AM -0400, Evan Carew wrote:
> ... I had trouble getting my new FC11 laptop config to work ...

Since you mentioned Fedora, I suspect the thing you were getting hung
up with was SELinux.  Fedora releases Apache and SELinux
configurations that are pretty locked down, denying the httpd
processes to read files, execute binaries and bind to ports outside of
a specific context.  This really helps secure the system, but at the
cost of confusing people who have been running web servers for a long
time.  Most likely, by moving the files into NFS, you changed the
SELinux attributes of the files you were reading to type nfs_t, which
means you probably have enabled http->nfs access, so the SELinux
boolean had httpd_use_nfs --> on.  Check out the getsebool and
setsebool man pages.

Unfortunately, a lot of people simply turn off SELinux when they
encounter it, which is unfortunate, because it can really save your
bacon if someone discovers a way to make your web server divulge
information it's not intended.  SELinux is powerful, but there has yet
to be a particularly user-friendly interface.

-- 
Jonathan Billings <billings at negate.org>


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Thu Aug 26 08:49:44 2010
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 08:49:44 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Cross-platform GUI suggestions
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E037054AC0D3@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

I'm planning on writing an app, potentially commercial, that needs to
run on Windows, Macs, and Linux. GUI development hasn't been my thing,
so I'm wondering... does anyone have any good suggestions for relatively
easy cross-platform GUI development tools? Ideally one that provides
"native look and feel" without too much fussing around?

Any suggestions (or warnings!) welcome...

 Ray Ingles                                               (313) 227-2317

 "When you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer;
          superstition ain't the way..." - Stevie Wonder


From mark.stanislav at gmail.com  Thu Aug 26 08:56:06 2010
From: mark.stanislav at gmail.com (Mark Stanislav)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 08:56:06 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Cross-platform GUI suggestions
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E037054AC0D3@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E037054AC0D3@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <3B32C901-D9D4-431A-AC65-D3DEFCD3AC00@gmail.com>

wxwidgets



On Aug 26, 2010, at 8:49 AM, "Ingles, Raymond" <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:

> I'm planning on writing an app, potentially commercial, that needs to
> run on Windows, Macs, and Linux. GUI development hasn't been my thing,
> so I'm wondering... does anyone have any good suggestions for relatively
> easy cross-platform GUI development tools? Ideally one that provides
> "native look and feel" without too much fussing around?
> 
> Any suggestions (or warnings!) welcome...
> 
> Ray Ingles                                               (313) 227-2317
> 
> "When you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer;
>          superstition ain't the way..." - Stevie Wonder
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From painbank at gmail.com  Thu Aug 26 09:52:12 2010
From: painbank at gmail.com (Rich Elswick)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 09:52:12 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Cross-platform GUI suggestions
In-Reply-To: <3B32C901-D9D4-431A-AC65-D3DEFCD3AC00@gmail.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E037054AC0D3@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<3B32C901-D9D4-431A-AC65-D3DEFCD3AC00@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimKUG6Tk_2tjWTiJsSFaRz-aR-MmwfunPvmHXSG@mail.gmail.com>

qt4 is now free, verse having to have paid for it in the past, although I
just started using it, so I am not sure how well it will work for you.

<glances at html5>

Rich

On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 8:56 AM, Mark Stanislav <mark.stanislav at gmail.com>wrote:

> wxwidgets
>
>
>
> On Aug 26, 2010, at 8:49 AM, "Ingles, Raymond" <
> Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm planning on writing an app, potentially commercial, that needs to
> > run on Windows, Macs, and Linux. GUI development hasn't been my thing,
> > so I'm wondering... does anyone have any good suggestions for relatively
> > easy cross-platform GUI development tools? Ideally one that provides
> > "native look and feel" without too much fussing around?
> >
> > Any suggestions (or warnings!) welcome...
> >
> > Ray Ingles                                               (313) 227-2317
> >
> > "When you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer;
> >          superstition ain't the way..." - Stevie Wonder
> > _______________________________________________
> > mdlug mailing list
> > mdlug at mdlug.org
> > http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>



-- 
Rich Elswick


From cvweiss at gmail.com  Thu Aug 26 10:57:10 2010
From: cvweiss at gmail.com (Clinton V. Weiss)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 10:57:10 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Cross-platform GUI suggestions
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimKUG6Tk_2tjWTiJsSFaRz-aR-MmwfunPvmHXSG@mail.gmail.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E037054AC0D3@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<3B32C901-D9D4-431A-AC65-D3DEFCD3AC00@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimKUG6Tk_2tjWTiJsSFaRz-aR-MmwfunPvmHXSG@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTine7Onqr4CtHUU4Bbfii4O=7vvs2gtPiLTVqnjm@mail.gmail.com>

I've written a few commercial apps with extensive GUI use in Java.  However,
this was about 5 years ago when JBuilder was strong and had it's awesome GUI
editor.  Today, I have yet to find a (free) Java GUI editor that can compare
to JBuilder's, so while you'll have excellent cross-platform compatibility
with Look and Feel that will easily match the system you're running on,
learning to do this from scratch will be difficult.

Clinton

-- 
Clinton V. Weiss
cvweiss at gmail.com


From steve at goodhall.info  Thu Aug 26 12:34:15 2010
From: steve at goodhall.info (Steve Goodhall)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 11:34:15 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Cross-platform GUI suggestions
Message-ID: <56499.1282840455@goodhall.info>

  BODY { font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px; }I
have had reasonably good experiences with NetBeans though I have to
admit it isn't JBuilder.  I don't necessarily agree that even doing if
from scratch is all that hard. It definitely beats doing GUI from
scratch in Visual Studio or Access by several miles.  To be fair to
Microsoft, .NET has stolen a lot of the Java concepts so it is
somewhat better than VB6.
 Regards, 
 Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP 
 248-505-5204 
 On Thu 26/08/10 10:57 AM , "Clinton V. Weiss" cvweiss at gmail.com
sent:
 I've written a few commercial apps with extensive GUI use in Java. 
However,
 this was about 5 years ago when JBuilder was strong and had it's
awesome GUI
 editor.  Today, I have yet to find a (free) Java GUI editor that can
compare
 to JBuilder's, so while you'll have excellent cross-platform
compatibility
 with Look and Feel that will easily match the system you're running
on,
 learning to do this from scratch will be difficult.
 Clinton
 -- 
 Clinton V. Weiss
 cvweiss at gmail.com [1]
 _______________________________________________
 mdlug mailing list
 mdlug at mdlug.org [2]
 http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
 

Links:
------
[1] mailto:cvweiss at gmail.com
[2] mailto:mdlug at mdlug.org


From gib at juno.com  Thu Aug 26 13:16:16 2010
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 17:16:16 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] [Discuss] Linux Job Posting
Message-ID: <20100826.131616.18618.0@webmail23.vgs.untd.com>

FYI

---------- Forwarded Message ----------
From: Dave Robins <daverobins at intrepidcs.com>
To: discuss at mug.org
Subject: [Discuss] Linux Job Posting
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 11:33:49 -0400

Hey Everyone,

I mentioned this position at the last MUG meeting. See you at
LinuxFest. Here are the details:

Embedded Linux Engineer

Intrepid Control Systems is looking to add an embedded Linux engineer
as a key team member. All experience levels will be considered for a
fit and we are willing to train people who can learn quickly. Position
includes great benefits, a small team environment and opportunities
for travel.  While attitude is the best qualification for this
position, the following skills are most helpful -

Valuable Skills...
* Knowledge of uboot
* Compiling/Building of Linux Kernel for embedded devices
* C/C++ programming for Linux
* TCP/IP knowledge
* Linux Administration
* Linux drivers
* ARM architecture
* Source control like SVN, CVS and Git
* OpenEmbedded
* Android
* USB
* Java
* Electronics hardware knowledge
* OMAP ARM/DSP experience
* Project management
* Beagleboard architecture

Please contact us to discuss this opportunity at .

http://www.intrepidcs.com/employment.html


-- 
Very Truly Yours,
Dave Robins
President & Engineering Manager
Intrepid Control Systems, Inc.
5700 18 Mile Rd
Sterling Heights, Michigan 48314 USA
+1-586-731-7950
www.intrepidcs.com
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
Discuss at mug.org
http://www.mug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
____________________________________________________________
Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance
If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4c76a18623cbc9506e7st01vuc


From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Thu Aug 26 17:58:03 2010
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Dr. Robert Meier)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 17:58:03 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Cross-platform GUI suggestions
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTine7Onqr4CtHUU4Bbfii4O=7vvs2gtPiLTVqnjm@mail.gmail.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E037054AC0D3@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<3B32C901-D9D4-431A-AC65-D3DEFCD3AC00@gmail.com>	<AANLkTimKUG6Tk_2tjWTiJsSFaRz-aR-MmwfunPvmHXSG@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTine7Onqr4CtHUU4Bbfii4O=7vvs2gtPiLTVqnjm@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C76E36B.7030602@bellsouth.net>

Ray,

> I'm planning on writing an app, potentially commercial,
> that needs to run on Windows, Macs, and Linux.
> GUI development hasn't been my thing, so I'm wondering...
> does anyone have any good suggestions for relatively
> easy cross-platform GUI development tools?
> Ideally one that provides "native look and feel"
> without too much fussing around?

Just in case you've not already rejected it,
for platform indepedence I suggest a webapp,
and CodeIgniter apps are very easy to write.

CodeIgniter apps DO NOT have "native look and feel".

Hopefully helpful,
--
Bob



From davidl at lmert.com  Thu Aug 26 19:49:03 2010
From: davidl at lmert.com (David Lee Lambert)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 19:49:03 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Cross-platform GUI suggestions
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTine7Onqr4CtHUU4Bbfii4O=7vvs2gtPiLTVqnjm@mail.gmail.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E037054AC0D3@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<3B32C901-D9D4-431A-AC65-D3DEFCD3AC00@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimKUG6Tk_2tjWTiJsSFaRz-aR-MmwfunPvmHXSG@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTine7Onqr4CtHUU4Bbfii4O=7vvs2gtPiLTVqnjm@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinwf4NSkHYLwcULxyKDQGycwTikX0Y4z+ho2R8S@mail.gmail.com>

+1 for Java.

There used to be an OK drag-and-drop editor in NetBeans,  although it was
clunky on the hardware I had at the time.  I haven't used it in a while,
and I imagine any big or commercial application would soon outgrow the
confines of the GUI's drag-and-drop code generator.

IBM's Rational Application Developer (an expensive commercial product, based
on Eclipse; I use it on the job; by the way IBM is hiring programmers in
Lansing) has a "visual editor" for drag-and-drop code generation, but the
"visual editor" only barely works some of the time.  I wouldn't recommend it
as anything other than a learning tool.

MyEclipse claims to have a visual code-builder in their shareware add-on to
Eclipse,  but I haven't used that part of it.

Java Swing is easy enough to code by hand once you get the hang of it,  and
the Java tutorials on Sun's (now Oracle's) website are pretty good.  The one
third-party piece of code I would recommend is "RiverLayout",  if you can
find that;  it made making a well-behaved dialog-box a lot easier.

If you prefer perl to Java,  you could try perl/Tk;  but I don't know how
well that works on the Mac.

--
DLL

On 26 August 2010 10:57, Clinton V. Weiss <cvweiss at gmail.com> wrote:

> I've written a few commercial apps with extensive GUI use in Java.
>  However,
> this was about 5 years ago when JBuilder was strong and had it's awesome
> GUI
> editor.  Today, I have yet to find a (free) Java GUI editor that can
> compare
> to JBuilder's, so while you'll have excellent cross-platform compatibility
> with Look and Feel that will easily match the system you're running on,
> learning to do this from scratch will be difficult.
>
> Clinton
>
> --
> Clinton V. Weiss
> cvweiss at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 26 21:23:41 2010
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 21:23:41 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Cross-platform GUI suggestions
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E037054AC0D3@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E037054AC0D3@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=m=aRNuw-TWM__6QLjD62yx+tfm4aGH9xP9OjO@mail.gmail.com>

--- Raymond Ingles wrote:

> I'm planning on writing an app, potentially commercial, that needs to
> run on Windows, Macs, and Linux. GUI development hasn't been my thing,
> so I'm wondering... does anyone have any good suggestions for relatively
> easy cross-platform GUI development tools? Ideally one that provides
> "native look and feel" without too much fussing around?

VLC is cross-platform and uses some GUI toolkit.  It used to use
WxWidgets, now uses something else.  They mention what it is,
somewhere...

~~ Michael Rudas
?? My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
?? My software blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com
?? My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/protop
?? http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey


From amkowalczyk at gmail.com  Thu Aug 26 22:29:24 2010
From: amkowalczyk at gmail.com (amkowalczyk)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 22:29:24 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] command line programs in the mainstream press
Message-ID: <4C772304.4000402@gmail.com>

  Well, I call Lifehacker mainstream...  
http://lifehacker.com/5622340/who-needs-a-mouse-learn-to-use-the-command-line-for-almost-anything

Check out Star Wars IV in ascii "video"...


From rmdion at gmail.com  Sun Aug 29 20:46:05 2010
From: rmdion at gmail.com (Bob Dion)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 19:46:05 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT win antivirus
Message-ID: <4C7AFF4D.5040609@gmail.com>

Hi All,

So what free anti-virus software are people using these days?

Thanks, Bob


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sun Aug 29 20:54:07 2010
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 20:54:07 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT win antivirus
In-Reply-To: <4C7AFF4D.5040609@gmail.com>
References: <4C7AFF4D.5040609@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimzoV=SqGU72o5Oc8Fp4EFHhFGrtb_L4q_j6Dj-@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 8:46 PM, Bob Dion <rmdion at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> So what free anti-virus software are people using these days?
>

AVG and AntiVir.  Run AVG without the link checking (very annoying in
web browsers).  Install AntiVir without the avguard on-access scanner
(to prevent problems with AVG on-access scanner).  Teach users to scan
every download with both.


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 29 21:56:12 2010
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 21:56:12 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT win antivirus
In-Reply-To: <4C7AFF4D.5040609@gmail.com>
References: <4C7AFF4D.5040609@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinuiZRBy9H3ocvH_1rbPKgpOEqanuEELObt7ifP@mail.gmail.com>

--- Bob Dion wrote:

> So what free anti-virus software are people using these days?

I have mostly been using Avast! and the Avira Rescue CD for cleanup.

~~ Michael Rudas
?? My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
?? My software blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com
?? My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/protop
?? http://www.Facebook.com/ScienceMikey


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 30 00:27:57 2010
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 00:27:57 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT win antivirus
In-Reply-To: <4C7AFF4D.5040609@gmail.com>
References: <4C7AFF4D.5040609@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C7B334D.3020601@gmail.com>

Bob Dion wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> So what free anti-virus software are people using these days?
> 

Linux :-)


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 30 08:35:38 2010
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 05:35:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] OT win antivirus
In-Reply-To: <4C7AFF4D.5040609@gmail.com>
References: <4C7AFF4D.5040609@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <695990.51722.qm@web37907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I have to say there are some things worth paying for and that would be to optain 
resources to protect your business and private resources. 


Then I HAVE to use a MS Windows pc I get something to protect my data and 
resources from intrusion.

As a secuity measure I do select Linux for many reasons one of them being 
security. It is a good idea to put Linux on your Internet facing resources.

David C. Lane



________________________________
From: Bob Dion <rmdion at gmail.com>
To: mdlug at mdlug.org
Sent: Sun, August 29, 2010 8:46:05 PM
Subject: [mdlug] OT win antivirus

Hi All,

So what free anti-virus software are people using these days?

Thanks, Bob
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      


From elcarew at sbcglobal.net  Mon Aug 30 09:33:49 2010
From: elcarew at sbcglobal.net (Evan Carew)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 09:33:49 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Cross-platform GUI suggestions
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E037054AC0D3@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E037054AC0D3@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <4C7BB33D.1030402@sbcglobal.net>

Ray,

I've written 2 commercial apps in Qt. One before it was free, and the
other after. Both apps were reasonably large and in both cases, some of
the development was done on MS Windows, and some on Linux. In the more
recent case, I couldn't really tell which platform I was developing on,
the level of integration was that good.

Of late, I've been doing a lot of web development, and decided to do my
latest app just to see how the two deployment models compared. I have to
say, with the issue of cross platform compatibility off the table (with
the exception of packaging), I'm wondering when we will start seeing
more applications being developed in the "older" client server model.
Developing an application with only one solution space is such a
peaceful experience.

Evan

On 08/26/2010 08:49 AM, Ingles, Raymond wrote:
> I'm planning on writing an app, potentially commercial, that needs to
> run on Windows, Macs, and Linux. GUI development hasn't been my thing,
> so I'm wondering... does anyone have any good suggestions for relatively
> easy cross-platform GUI development tools? Ideally one that provides
> "native look and feel" without too much fussing around?
>
> Any suggestions (or warnings!) welcome...
>
>  Ray Ingles                                               (313) 227-2317
>
>  "When you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer;
>           superstition ain't the way..." - Stevie Wonder
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>   



From elcarew at sbcglobal.net  Mon Aug 30 09:36:56 2010
From: elcarew at sbcglobal.net (Evan Carew)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 09:36:56 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Apache and Config for files outside of www dir
In-Reply-To: <4C7597CA.5030606@bellsouth.net>
References: <20100810.102733.3861.0@webmail23.vgs.untd.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE469022FDBADB1@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4C750C7A.3060902@sbcglobal.net>
	<AANLkTimdeqx1-nmkdk1-AyrNpQkBLbXnteCx_NtzsV8D@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=WO5PvDhhKjQ4-N6TVjE=ws6iBmzUFe7igsQLN@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C7597CA.5030606@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <4C7BB3F8.1070106@sbcglobal.net>

Yep, tried that. Didn't work. I'm wondering if the SE Linux settings
were getting in the way?

Evan

On 08/25/2010 06:23 PM, Dr. Robert Meier wrote:
> Rich, Evan, Greg, ...
>
>   
>>> On Aug 25, 2010 8:35 AM, "Evan Carew" <elcarew at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>       
>>>> Much like the originator of this thread,
>>>> I wanted to do web development outside of /var/www,
>>>> in this case, my /home/me/Projects directory.
>>>> I was under the impression that I could use soft links, or aliases, but nothing worked.
>>>>         
> Symlink references cannot be integrity checked directly by apache
> (The file name "/home/projects" and the delivered content can be
> checked but not the intermediate contents.).
>
> Consequently apache won't follow symlinks by default.
>
> In concert with other features "Options FollowSymlinks" can direct the
> server to use symlinks.
>
> 	---- /etc/apache2/httpd.conf.local ----
> ...
> # Prepared Presentations
> Alias /presentations/ "/home/presenter/presentations/speeches/"
>
> <Directory "/home/presenter/presentations/speeches">
>  Options Indexes MultiViews FollowSymLinks
>  AllowOverride None
>  Order allow,deny
>  Allow from all
> </Directory>
> ...
> 	---- /etc/apache2/httpd.conf.local ----
>
>   
[snip]


From billings at negate.org  Mon Aug 30 09:41:16 2010
From: billings at negate.org (Jonathan Billings)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 09:41:16 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Apache and Config for files outside of www dir
In-Reply-To: <4C7BB3F8.1070106@sbcglobal.net>
References: <20100810.102733.3861.0@webmail23.vgs.untd.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE469022FDBADB1@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4C750C7A.3060902@sbcglobal.net>
	<AANLkTimdeqx1-nmkdk1-AyrNpQkBLbXnteCx_NtzsV8D@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=WO5PvDhhKjQ4-N6TVjE=ws6iBmzUFe7igsQLN@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C7597CA.5030606@bellsouth.net> <4C7BB3F8.1070106@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <20100830134115.GC13145@caen-gx755.engin.umich.edu>

On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 09:36:56AM -0400, Evan Carew wrote:
>
> Yep, tried that. Didn't work. I'm wondering if the SE Linux settings
> were getting in the way?

I know on RHEL and Fedora, if you've got the auditd daemon running,
you can watch /var/log/audit/audit.log when you're hitting the web
page to see if SELinux is the root cause.

-- 
Jonathan Billings <billings at negate.org>


From elcarew at sbcglobal.net  Mon Aug 30 09:41:58 2010
From: elcarew at sbcglobal.net (Evan Carew)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 09:41:58 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Apache and Config for files outside of www dir
In-Reply-To: <20100826123956.GA13145@caen-gx755.engin.umich.edu>
References: <20100810.102733.3861.0@webmail23.vgs.untd.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE469022FDBADB1@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4C750C7A.3060902@sbcglobal.net>
	<20100826123956.GA13145@caen-gx755.engin.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <4C7BB526.4000002@sbcglobal.net>

Jonathan,

I think you've got it. Since I'm developing, and only accessing the
server from localhost, security isn't a concern. I suspect that there
are a lot of use cases for developers just like this, where the
developer simply gives up because he/she can't make it work out of the
box. I nearly gave up on FC linux in this case. For reasons related to
PPtP, I may be switching to Ubuntu anyway as their implementation works
much better than the FC equivalent. If Ubuntu gives me the same amount
of trouble as I got from FC11, I may be switching to Mac some time in 2011.

Evan

On 08/26/2010 08:39 AM, Jonathan Billings wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 08:28:42AM -0400, Evan Carew wrote:
>   
>> ... I had trouble getting my new FC11 laptop config to work ...
>>     
> Since you mentioned Fedora, I suspect the thing you were getting hung
> up with was SELinux.  Fedora releases Apache and SELinux
> configurations that are pretty locked down, denying the httpd
> processes to read files, execute binaries and bind to ports outside of
> a specific context.  This really helps secure the system, but at the
> cost of confusing people who have been running web servers for a long
> time.  Most likely, by moving the files into NFS, you changed the
> SELinux attributes of the files you were reading to type nfs_t, which
> means you probably have enabled http->nfs access, so the SELinux
> boolean had httpd_use_nfs --> on.  Check out the getsebool and
> setsebool man pages.
>
> Unfortunately, a lot of people simply turn off SELinux when they
> encounter it, which is unfortunate, because it can really save your
> bacon if someone discovers a way to make your web server divulge
> information it's not intended.  SELinux is powerful, but there has yet
> to be a particularly user-friendly interface.
>
>   



From billings at negate.org  Mon Aug 30 09:55:30 2010
From: billings at negate.org (Jonathan Billings)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 09:55:30 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Apache and Config for files outside of www dir
In-Reply-To: <4C7BB526.4000002@sbcglobal.net>
References: <20100810.102733.3861.0@webmail23.vgs.untd.com>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE469022FDBADB1@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<4C750C7A.3060902@sbcglobal.net>
	<20100826123956.GA13145@caen-gx755.engin.umich.edu>
	<4C7BB526.4000002@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <20100830135530.GD13145@caen-gx755.engin.umich.edu>

On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 09:41:58AM -0400, Evan Carew wrote:
>
> Jonathan,
> 
> I think you've got it. Since I'm developing, and only accessing the
> server from localhost, security isn't a concern. I suspect that there
> are a lot of use cases for developers just like this, where the
> developer simply gives up because he/she can't make it work out of the
> box. I nearly gave up on FC linux in this case. For reasons related to
> PPtP, I may be switching to Ubuntu anyway as their implementation works
> much better than the FC equivalent. If Ubuntu gives me the same amount
> of trouble as I got from FC11, I may be switching to Mac some time in 2011.

Well, Ubuntu uses Yet Another Linux Security/Auditing layer called
AppArmor, which has it's own way of doing things too.

-- 
Jonathan Billings <billings at negate.org>


From radkins at impelind.com  Mon Aug 30 11:06:54 2010
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins II)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 11:06:54 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT win antivirus
In-Reply-To: <4C7AFF4D.5040609@gmail.com>
References: <4C7AFF4D.5040609@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F772CFDFB9964BAE97313F4C4B9C3587@Delta7>

On my home machines, I have been using Avast!

It's an excellent AV engine and has caught things a handful of times.
(Website attacks wherein a adserver has been hacked and is attempting to
push trojans out via banner ads for the most part.)


--

Regards,
Robert 
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Bob Dion
> Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 8:46 PM
> To: mdlug at mdlug.org
> Subject: [mdlug] OT win antivirus
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> So what free anti-virus software are people using these days?
> 
> Thanks, Bob
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 



From carl at carltm.com  Mon Aug 30 12:26:21 2010
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 12:26:21 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] anyone going the OLF?
Message-ID: <48d5cb7c3f554fe051f56dc606505091.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

Just wondering if anyone else is planning to go.

http://ohiolinux.org/

c




From awilliam at opengroupware.us  Mon Aug 30 13:34:14 2010
From: awilliam at opengroupware.us (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 13:34:14 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] anyone going the OLF?
In-Reply-To: <48d5cb7c3f554fe051f56dc606505091.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
References: <48d5cb7c3f554fe051f56dc606505091.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <1283189654.7544.8.camel@linux-yu4c.site>

On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 12:26 -0400, Carl T. Miller wrote:
> Just wondering if anyone else is planning to go.
> http://ohiolinux.org/

+1  BTW, registration closes 2010-09-01.



From carl at carltm.com  Mon Aug 30 15:33:03 2010
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 15:33:03 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] anyone going the OLF?
In-Reply-To: <1283189654.7544.8.camel@linux-yu4c.site>
References: <48d5cb7c3f554fe051f56dc606505091.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
	<1283189654.7544.8.camel@linux-yu4c.site>
Message-ID: <61b47bbd3b06d51a1672c26804964d66.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 12:26 -0400, Carl T. Miller wrote:
>> Just wondering if anyone else is planning to go.
>> http://ohiolinux.org/
>
> +1  BTW, registration closes 2010-09-01.


Adam, there's a free one day workshop being presented by
Zenoss.  If you're interested I'll send you registration
details.  It's on Friday, so it would conflict if you're
signed up for OLFU.

c




From blubdog at gmail.com  Tue Aug 31 08:57:27 2010
From: blubdog at gmail.com (Bruce Smith)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 08:57:27 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT win antivirus
In-Reply-To: <F772CFDFB9964BAE97313F4C4B9C3587@Delta7>
References: <4C7AFF4D.5040609@gmail.com>
	<F772CFDFB9964BAE97313F4C4B9C3587@Delta7>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=TqswEN1-bzzX56YYiasUggeUq_uzH-ZhxH1Xz@mail.gmail.com>

>> So what free anti-virus software are people using these days?

I did a informal speed comparison among free AV software in my Windows
VM's (just by feel, no real benchmarking software).

It appears to me that Microsoft Security Essentials runs the fastest
by far (i.e. slowed down the system the least).

I also know some Windows geeks, and a guy who does Windows PC helpdesk
professionally, who have switched from AVG and Avira to M$ Security
Essentials.  Also M$SE has no ads.

Someday I need to research commercial AV software.  I'd also be very
interested in a detailed comparison of what extra features are added
in commercial AV products.

?- BS


From rjclay at gmail.com  Tue Aug 31 12:09:19 2010
From: rjclay at gmail.com (Robert J. Clay)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 12:09:19 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT win antivirus
In-Reply-To: <4C7AFF4D.5040609@gmail.com>
References: <4C7AFF4D.5040609@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimrx8e+pr3Xc8ASYoAhyBaj2vHv5dKhn3HNH4AB@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 8:46 PM, Bob Dion <rmdion at gmail.com> wrote:
> So what free anti-virus software are people using these days?

   On MS Windows?   Currently;  clamwin, ClamAV for Windows.  (www.clamwin.com).





-- 
Robert J. Clay
rjclay at gmail.com


From awilliam at opengroupware.us  Tue Aug 31 13:31:09 2010
From: awilliam at opengroupware.us (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 13:31:09 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT win antivirus
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimrx8e+pr3Xc8ASYoAhyBaj2vHv5dKhn3HNH4AB@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4C7AFF4D.5040609@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimrx8e+pr3Xc8ASYoAhyBaj2vHv5dKhn3HNH4AB@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1283275869.3512.4.camel@linux-yu4c.site>

On Tue, 2010-08-31 at 12:09 -0400, Robert J. Clay wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 8:46 PM, Bob Dion <rmdion at gmail.com> wrote:
> > So what free anti-virus software are people using these days?
> On MS Windows?   Currently;  clamwin, ClamAV for Windows.  (www.clamwin.com).

+1 We use CLAMAV.  It starts a scan every night [via the very lame
Windows schedular] and if it finds anything [watch ERRORLEVEL (exit
status] it uses blat to send an e-mail.  Then we recall the machine and
reinstall it.



