From driveray at ameritech.net  Mon Mar  2 07:10:59 2009
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 07:10:59 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] SEMCO looking for new meeting place
Message-ID: <49ABCCD3.6020204@ameritech.net>

MDLUGers:

It seems that our joint install fest was SEMCO's last meeting at the
ArvinMerator campus. I just received an email indicateing that "...
effective immediately ArvinMeritor Inc. no longer will be providing
non-business use of our facility ..."

It is tempting to scratch the paranoia itch with speculation about
strings being pulled to put the kibosh on their nascent interest in
promoting Linux, but since ArvinMeritor is an automotive supplier, it is
much more likely about cost cutting.

At any rate SEMCO is now looking for venues where they can hole their
regular meeting. I understand they are looking into the Engeneering
Society of Detroit location in Southfield.

Those who plan to attend should check their web site for updates. (I
just checked, it hasn't been updated, still shows meeting at AM. But I
have received emails about the situation from several of their officers.

Raymond McLaughlin


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Mon Mar  2 19:59:16 2009
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 19:59:16 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] SEMCO looking for new meeting place
In-Reply-To: <49ABCCD3.6020204@ameritech.net>
References: <49ABCCD3.6020204@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380903021659o3d905822m9e9b899f34b8ec67@mail.gmail.com>

--- Raymond McLaughlin wrote:

> It seems that our joint install fest was SEMCO's last meeting at the
> ArvinMerator campus. I just received an email indicateing that "...
> effective immediately ArvinMeritor Inc. no longer will be providing
> non-business use of our facility ..."

> At any rate SEMCO is now looking for venues where they can hole their
> regular meeting. I understand they are looking into the Engineering
> Society of Detroit location in Southfield.

Confirmed, per Mike Bader:

NEW MEETING LOCATION!
The Engineering Society of Detroit
20700 Civic Center Drive, Suite 450, 4th Floor
Southfield, MI 48076-4140
NOTE: Additional parking at the north side (back side) of the building.

Map: http://tinyurl.com/semco-new
full link: <http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=20700+Civic+Center+Dr+48076&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=27.643082,56.601563&ie=UTF8&ll=42.480089,-83.25006&spn=0.006267,0.013819&t=k&z=16>

~~ Michael Rudas
    My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
    My software blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com
    My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/3wt54n


From gib at juno.com  Mon Mar  2 20:59:21 2009
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 01:59:21 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] SEMCO looking for new meeting place
Message-ID: <20090302.205921.13158.4@webmail15.vgs.untd.com>


Cool, much closer for me.

-- Michael Rudas <audiotech50 at gmail.com> wrote:
--- Raymond McLaughlin wrote:

> It seems that our joint install fest was SEMCO's last meeting at the
> ArvinMerator campus. I just received an email indicateing that "...
> effective immediately ArvinMeritor Inc. no longer will be providing
> non-business use of our facility ..."

> At any rate SEMCO is now looking for venues where they can hole their
> regular meeting. I understand they are looking into the Engineering
> Society of Detroit location in Southfield.

Confirmed, per Mike Bader:

NEW MEETING LOCATION!
The Engineering Society of Detroit
20700 Civic Center Drive, Suite 450, 4th Floor
Southfield, MI 48076-4140
NOTE: Additional parking at the north side (back side) of the building.

Map: http://tinyurl.com/semco-new
full link: <http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=20700+Civic+Center+Dr+48076&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=27.643082,56.601563&ie=UTF8&ll=42.480089,-83.25006&spn=0.006267,0.013819&t=k&z=16>

~~ Michael Rudas
    My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
    My software blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com
    My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/3wt54n
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


____________________________________________________________
Get Medical Insurance quotes and compare plans. Click now.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/BLSrjnsHFU4KXPXZTTG8rEt1QbXtpsZNS8T9rqIK6vXPSnubZ7ND7tWOjks/


From gib at juno.com  Mon Mar  2 20:57:56 2009
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 01:57:56 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] [OpenStreetMap] Sarah M sent you a new message
Message-ID: <20090302.205756.13158.2@webmail15.vgs.untd.com>


Forwarded to those who may have an interest.

---------- Forwarded Message ----------
***************************************************************************
*                                                                         *
*                   Please do not reply to this email.                    *
*                Use the OpenStreetMap web site to reply.                 *
*                                                                         *
*               Bitte antworten Sie nicht auf diese E-Mail.               *
*          Verwenden Sie die OpenStreetMap Website zum Antworten.         *
*                                                                         *
*                 Por favor, no responda a este mensaje.                  *
*           Utilice el OpenStreetMap sitio web para responder.            *
*                                                                         *
*            S???il vous pla??t de ne pas r??pondre ?? ce message.             *
*           Utilisez le OpenStreetMap site Web pour y r??pondre.           *
*                                                                         *
***************************************************************************

Hi Gibson Nichols,

Sarah M has sent you a message through OpenStreetMap with the subject "Please help us improve OSM and be entered to win a GPS unit!":

==
Dear Gibson Nichols,

Hi I'm Sarah and I'm a community member of OpenStreetMap. I host OSM  events such as mapping parties, talks and social get-togethers in the USA where CloudMade is helping to build the OSM community. As you may  know the OSM community in Europe is very active. I am working hard to replicate that here in the US and you can be of real help building the community. Since you are a registered contributor to OSM, your input is of great value.

I really appreciate your time, please take a few minutes to answer a couple of simple questions here: http://tinyurl.com/c3sw3k

In exchange for your time, you will be eligible to win a Etrex Legend GPS unit.  We will be picking the GPS winner on March 16th, so be sure to fill out the form by then!

Thanks so much,

Sarah Manley


==

You can also read the message at http://www.openstreetmap.org/message/read/35713
and you can reply at http://www.openstreetmap.org/message/reply/35713

***************************************************************************
*                                                                         *
*                   Please do not reply to this email.                    *
*                Use the OpenStreetMap web site to reply.                 *
*                                                                         *
*               Bitte antworten Sie nicht auf diese E-Mail.               *
*          Verwenden Sie die OpenStreetMap Website zum Antworten.         *
*                                                                         *
*                 Por favor, no responda a este mensaje.                  *
*           Utilice el OpenStreetMap sitio web para responder.            *
*                                                                         *
*            S???il vous pla??t de ne pas r??pondre ?? ce message.             *
*           Utilisez le OpenStreetMap site Web pour y r??pondre.           *
*                                                                         *
***************************************************************************


____________________________________________________________
Click to get Medical Insurance options that meet your needs.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/BLSrjnsHFU4KbCjpxvqJLmnDrlg9YgUOdh9vgZ60gePqWAjXnQaAUIpn7oM/


From micorral at comcast.net  Mon Mar  2 21:11:37 2009
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 21:11:37 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] SEMCO looking for new meeting place
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380903021659o3d905822m9e9b899f34b8ec67@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49ABCCD3.6020204@ameritech.net>
	<b67fb0380903021659o3d905822m9e9b899f34b8ec67@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0903022109230.6846@banana.sluggo.net>

2009-03-02, Monsieur Michael Rudas a ecrit:
> NEW MEETING LOCATION!
> The Engineering Society of Detroit
> 20700 Civic Center Drive, Suite 450, 4th Floor
> Southfield, MI 48076-4140

Cool, that's about 3 minutes from my place.
I'm now almost half-tempted to attend.

Michael


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Tue Mar  3 23:25:40 2009
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 23:25:40 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] SEMCO looking for new meeting place
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380903021659o3d905822m9e9b899f34b8ec67@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49ABCCD3.6020204@ameritech.net>
	<b67fb0380903021659o3d905822m9e9b899f34b8ec67@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380903032025v1e014c1ehe75194de0988f0be@mail.gmail.com>

--- Michael Rudas wrote:
> --- Raymond McLaughlin wrote:

>> SEMCO is now looking for venues where they can hold their
>> regular meeting. I understand they are looking into the Engineering
>> Society of Detroit location in Southfield.

> Confirmed, per Mike Bader:
> NEW MEETING LOCATION!
> The Engineering Society of Detroit
> 20700 Civic Center Drive, Suite 450, 4th Floor
> Southfield, MI 48076-4140
> NOTE: Additional parking at the north side (back side) of the building.

> Map: http://tinyurl.com/semco-new

Also per MB, the times are the same as they were at the AM facility.

~~ Michael Rudas
    My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
    My software blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com
    My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/3wt54n


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Tue Mar  3 23:29:34 2009
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 23:29:34 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] "Linux Format" March issue available for download
Message-ID: <b67fb0380903032029x325451e4rc85ce948e6efae71@mail.gmail.com>

The "KDE issue" of "Linux Format" is available for download for a
limited 24 hour period.  The fun begins today at midnight GMT/UTC.
The magazine is in PDF format and the DVD is available as an ISO; both
are torrents.

<http://www.tuxradar.com/content/linux-format-free-download-24-hours-only>

... so it's available until 7 p.m. our time...

~~ Michael Rudas
    My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
    My software blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com
    My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/3wt54n


From micorral at comcast.net  Wed Mar  4 01:29:29 2009
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 01:29:29 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] "Linux Format" March issue available for download
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380903032029x325451e4rc85ce948e6efae71@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380903032029x325451e4rc85ce948e6efae71@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0903040125130.2785@banana.sluggo.net>

2009-03-03, Monsieur Michael Rudas a ecrit:
> The magazine is in PDF format and the DVD is available as an ISO; both
> are torrents.
>
> <http://www.tuxradar.com/content/linux-format-free-download-24-hours-only>

Heh, they put "Linux Format" in a zip file (linux_format_116.zip)!
Zip doesn't strike me as the most Linux-y of archive formats. :)

Michael


From set at pobox.com  Wed Mar  4 04:04:16 2009
From: set at pobox.com (Paul)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 04:04:16 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] "Linux Format" March issue available for download
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0903040125130.2785@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <b67fb0380903032029x325451e4rc85ce948e6efae71@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903040125130.2785@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <20090304090416.GC6073@squish.home.loc>

Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net>, on Wed Mar 04, 2009 [01:29:29 AM] said:
> 2009-03-03, Monsieur Michael Rudas a ecrit:
> > The magazine is in PDF format and the DVD is available as an ISO; both
> > are torrents.
> >
> > <http://www.tuxradar.com/content/linux-format-free-download-24-hours-only>
> 
> Heh, they put "Linux Format" in a zip file (linux_format_116.zip)!
> Zip doesn't strike me as the most Linux-y of archive formats. :)
> 
> Michael

	Hi;

	No doubt! No one would want to associate Linux with the likes
of Java JAR files, python .egg files, silverlight and that ilk. And
then there are ODF files, google earth, and mozilla firefox add-ons...
WAIT!@#

Paul
set at pobox.com

ps. its all about CPIO...


From driveray at ameritech.net  Wed Mar  4 07:37:51 2009
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 07:37:51 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] "Linux Format" March issue available for download
In-Reply-To: <20090304090416.GC6073@squish.home.loc>
References: <b67fb0380903032029x325451e4rc85ce948e6efae71@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903040125130.2785@banana.sluggo.net>
	<20090304090416.GC6073@squish.home.loc>
Message-ID: <49AE761F.3040306@ameritech.net>

Paul wrote:
> Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net>, on Wed Mar 04, 2009 [01:29:29 AM] said:
>> 2009-03-03, Monsieur Michael Rudas a ecrit:
>>> The magazine is in PDF format and the DVD is available as an ISO; both
>>> are torrents.
>>>
>>> <http://www.tuxradar.com/content/linux-format-free-download-24-hours-only>
>> Heh, they put "Linux Format" in a zip file (linux_format_116.zip)!
>> Zip doesn't strike me as the most Linux-y of archive formats. :)
>>
>> Michael
> 
> 	Hi;
> 
> 	No doubt! No one would want to associate Linux with the likes
> of Java JAR files, python .egg files, silverlight and that ilk. And
> then there are ODF files, google earth, and mozilla firefox add-ons...
> WAIT!@#
> 
> Paul
> set at pobox.com
> 
> ps. its all about CPIO...

Oh yes, the old Convoluted, Perverse, Insane, Obtuse archive format. I
have been learning a bit about that.
  "In copy-out mode, cpio copies files into an archive."
  "In copy-in mode, cpio copies files out of an archive"
Makes sense to me.


From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Wed Mar  4 08:36:06 2009
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 08:36:06 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] "Linux Format" March issue available for download
In-Reply-To: <49AE761F.3040306@ameritech.net>
References: <b67fb0380903032029x325451e4rc85ce948e6efae71@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903040125130.2785@banana.sluggo.net>
	<20090304090416.GC6073@squish.home.loc>
	<49AE761F.3040306@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46924332998@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

I get schooled by pax every time.

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Raymond McLaughlin
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:38 AM
To: mdlug at mdlug.org
Subject: Re: [mdlug] "Linux Format" March issue available for download

Paul wrote:
> Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net>, on Wed Mar 04, 2009 [01:29:29 AM] said:
>> 2009-03-03, Monsieur Michael Rudas a ecrit:
>>> The magazine is in PDF format and the DVD is available as an ISO; both
>>> are torrents.
>>>
>>> <http://www.tuxradar.com/content/linux-format-free-download-24-hours-only>
>> Heh, they put "Linux Format" in a zip file (linux_format_116.zip)!
>> Zip doesn't strike me as the most Linux-y of archive formats. :)
>>
>> Michael
> 
> 	Hi;
> 
> 	No doubt! No one would want to associate Linux with the likes
> of Java JAR files, python .egg files, silverlight and that ilk. And
> then there are ODF files, google earth, and mozilla firefox add-ons...
> WAIT!@#
> 
> Paul
> set at pobox.com
> 
> ps. its all about CPIO...

Oh yes, the old Convoluted, Perverse, Insane, Obtuse archive format. I
have been learning a bit about that.
  "In copy-out mode, cpio copies files into an archive."
  "In copy-in mode, cpio copies files out of an archive"
Makes sense to me.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From brian at dangerbacon.com  Wed Mar  4 08:50:24 2009
From: brian at dangerbacon.com (Brian)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 08:50:24 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] "Linux Format" March issue available for download
In-Reply-To: <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46924332998@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
References: <b67fb0380903032029x325451e4rc85ce948e6efae71@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903040125130.2785@banana.sluggo.net>
	<20090304090416.GC6073@squish.home.loc>
	<49AE761F.3040306@ameritech.net>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46924332998@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
Message-ID: <6f64e9540903040550i7ff2030fs19d46cd261d87e86@mail.gmail.com>

Those are all so weak, they should have released it as a shar!

On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 8:36 AM, Wojtak, Greg <GregWojtak at quickenloans.com>wrote:

> I get schooled by pax every time.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
> Of Raymond McLaughlin
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:38 AM
> To: mdlug at mdlug.org
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] "Linux Format" March issue available for download
>
> Paul wrote:
> > Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net>, on Wed Mar 04, 2009 [01:29:29 AM]
> said:
> >> 2009-03-03, Monsieur Michael Rudas a ecrit:
> >>> The magazine is in PDF format and the DVD is available as an ISO; both
> >>> are torrents.
> >>>
> >>> <
> http://www.tuxradar.com/content/linux-format-free-download-24-hours-only>
> >> Heh, they put "Linux Format" in a zip file (linux_format_116.zip)!
> >> Zip doesn't strike me as the most Linux-y of archive formats. :)
> >>
> >> Michael
> >
> >       Hi;
> >
> >       No doubt! No one would want to associate Linux with the likes
> > of Java JAR files, python .egg files, silverlight and that ilk. And
> > then there are ODF files, google earth, and mozilla firefox add-ons...
> > WAIT!@#
> >
> > Paul
> > set at pobox.com
> >
> > ps. its all about CPIO...
>
> Oh yes, the old Convoluted, Perverse, Insane, Obtuse archive format. I
> have been learning a bit about that.
>  "In copy-out mode, cpio copies files into an archive."
>  "In copy-in mode, cpio copies files out of an archive"
> Makes sense to me.
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>



-- 
Brian
"It's not stupid, it's advaaanced!" - Tallest Purple


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 08:57:47 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 08:57:47 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] "Linux Format" March issue available for download
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0903040125130.2785@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <b67fb0380903032029x325451e4rc85ce948e6efae71@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903040125130.2785@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <49AE88DB.8090204@gmail.com>

Michael Corral wrote:
> 2009-03-03, Monsieur Michael Rudas a ecrit:
>> The magazine is in PDF format and the DVD is available as an ISO; both
>> are torrents.
>>
>> <http://www.tuxradar.com/content/linux-format-free-download-24-hours-only>
> 
> Heh, they put "Linux Format" in a zip file (linux_format_116.zip)!
> Zip doesn't strike me as the most Linux-y of archive formats. :)

That's so those who don't yet have Linux can use it.

Suppose you're trying to MIGRATE to Linux, but have no Linux
machine available... then .zip is the best fileformat.


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 09:06:01 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 09:06:01 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] "Linux Format" March issue available for download
In-Reply-To: <20090304090416.GC6073@squish.home.loc>
References: <b67fb0380903032029x325451e4rc85ce948e6efae71@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903040125130.2785@banana.sluggo.net>
	<20090304090416.GC6073@squish.home.loc>
Message-ID: <49AE8AC9.4000502@gmail.com>

Paul wrote:
> Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net>, on Wed Mar 04, 2009 [01:29:29 AM] said:
>> 2009-03-03, Monsieur Michael Rudas a ecrit:
>>> The magazine is in PDF format and the DVD is available as an ISO; both
>>> are torrents.
>>>
>>> <http://www.tuxradar.com/content/linux-format-free-download-24-hours-only>
>> Heh, they put "Linux Format" in a zip file (linux_format_116.zip)!
>> Zip doesn't strike me as the most Linux-y of archive formats. :)
>>
>> Michael
> 
> 	Hi;
> 
> 	No doubt! No one would want to associate Linux with the likes
> of Java JAR files, python .egg files, silverlight and that ilk. And
> then there are ODF files, google earth, and mozilla firefox add-ons...
> WAIT!@#
> 
> Paul
> set at pobox.com
> 
> ps. its all about CPIO...

25 1/2 years of using *nix, including over a decade as a sysadmin
and systems engineer, and I've never once used cpio....

Probably because with tar, the file catalog is contained within
the tar file, whereas a cpio archive requires that all files
added to the archive be maintained in a separate list.


From john_re at fastmail.us  Wed Mar  4 09:19:32 2009
From: john_re at fastmail.us (john_re)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 06:19:32 -0800
Subject: [mdlug] Global Linux Meeting March 7 Sat BerkeleyTIP -Global - For
	Forwarding
Message-ID: <1236176372.7932.1303588033@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Hi Mark, MDLUGgers :)

Mark - (I've got the correct Mark, right?) Why don't you organize a
local simultaneous meeting this Saturday? Then a group of yall can join
in.  :)

Hey - ain't those /. folks not too far from you?  Any chance you got an
inside track to getting this meeting announced there?  ;)

====
Ekiga(Gnome meeting), Asterisk, Xen, Virtualbox, Debian 15 Years, Free
and Open Future, Amarok, ZFS, FreeBSD, Python, OLPC


=====  SCHEDULE
Schedule: All times Pacific Std Time = GMT -8H 
             ex: 10A PST = 1P Eastern ST
10 A    Begin:  Set up.  Get on IRC & VOIP
11 A    Ekiga3 talk LIVE
        INSTALLFEST begin
12 N    Asterisk, OLPC;
        PROGRAMMING PARTY: VOIP Conference client & server
 1 P    Xen, Virtualbox; GNOME
 2 P    KDE ? GUI; Macintosh
 3 P    Debian; BSD; College & University groups
 4 P    Free & Open Future; Culture; Hardware
 5 P    LIGHTNING TALKS
        Python; INetWebDev; Local Simultaneous Meetings Arrangements


=====  PHYSICAL LOCATION: UC Berkeley FREE SPEECH CAFE
At Moffitt Undergrad Library.
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=37.872558,-122.260795&spn=0.001776,0.002529&z=19
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/directions
BART: Berkeley Downtown Station.
Caltrain: Berkeley Station, bus up University to campus.
Car: 880 Freeway, University Exit.

=====  IRC & VOIP
Join IRC freenode.net #berkeleytip, & we'll help you get on VOIP
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/remote-attendance


===== Come to the: Great global meeting planned for this Saturday!  :)

Yes!  You can join in with the friendly global BTIP people - get a
headset & join the VOIP conference, from home, or wherever.  Hey -
invite your friends over & you can haz parte.  ;)

Be the first in your state - or country - to join in.  Since Chaitanya
joined from India in February, we have now officially moved up to
global.  :)

BerkeleyTIP - Global Monthly GNU(Linux), BSD & All Free SW HW & Culture
meeting.
Talks, Installfest, Potluck & ProgrammingParty
Educational, Productive, Social
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/


=====  TALKS:  11A LIVE, - DOWNLOAD & WATCH VIDEOS BEFORE
Ekiga 3 on KUbuntu 8.04 - Chaitanya Mehandru, LIVE 11AM PST = GMT -8H
Asterisk Free Software Telephone System - Paul Charles Leddy, NYLUG-08
Xen Virtualization - Ian Pratt, FOSDEM-08
Virtualbox, Achim Hasenmueller, FOSDEM-08
Debian, Bdale Garbee, FOSDEM-09
Free and Open Future - Mark Surman, FOSDEM-09
Amarok v2 - Akademy-08
Debian: 15 Years and Counting - Steve McIntyre, Debconf-08 - Keynote
ZFS for FreeBSD - Pawel Jakub Dawidek, MeetBSD-08
Python on the OLPC laptop -  Ed Cherlin, BayPIGgies-08

Links to the videos & more info here:
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/talk-videos
Suggestion:  Download & watch the videos _you_ are interested in
_before_ the meeting, so you can spend the scheduled topic time
_discussing_ that talk.

All the talk/video speakers are invited to join in for Q&A & discussion.
[Please pass that word on to the speakers, because I probably wont have
time to notify them individually.]

Thanks to all the speakerz, videographerz, & sponsoring groupiez.  :)
& doubble plus big thanks to David Fox, r noo talk/vid finder/scheduler.
 :)

==  LIGHTNING TALKS - 5PM - Sign up anytime.


=====  PROGRAMMING PARTY:
1) Help get Ekiga 3 compiled, running & packaged for KUbuntu8.04
2) Help get a local Asterisk VOIP conference server working.
3) Whatever _you_ are interested in - Email the list inviting us to join
on your project.  :)


=====  PEOPLE ARE TALKING:
Chris said:  the meeting went very well for Feb. 7.

Windsor said:  I am interested in Jack's
idea of focusing a group on promotion of Linux as a desktop operating
system and targeting perspective Linux users. I'm enthusiastic about
doing something to this effect, like hosting an install night, standing
in Sproul Plaza near a card table, etc..

David said:  the USB headset I ordered and will
pick up at the post office tomorrow - 
Markt9 (from virtual lug) told me that it was a very nice one. I can't
wait until I get the chance to try it live.

& Windsor says: I posted some guidelines for people editing the web
page. Also, (and I'm not trying to be a kill-joy) I think the smilies
should be left in IRC and private e-mails. Every time I see one on the
site I think of myspace.com or icanhazcheeseburger.com.

john_re says: Thanks for the tipz, everyone. - I'll keep 'em in mind. 
;)

ps: & more doubbble pluz big thanks to Windsor, for the new website
design.  :)

[Someone, call the doctor, got a case of love bipolar.  Staccato, roller
coaster, can't get off this riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide.]
http://equine-ranch.com/horseinfo.php?horseid=240482


=====  JOIN THE MAILING LIST
& say "Hi", where you're from, what you're interested in, & whatever
project you invite others to join in on.
http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal
Click "Join this group" on the right side of the page.


=====  FLYER
- Opportunity - Put 10 up so your friends will know.
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/home/March09_BTIPFlyer.odt?attredirects=0


====  FOR FORWARDING -
You are invited to forward this message anywhere appropriate.

C-ya there :)


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 10:33:14 2009
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 10:33:14 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Archive formats (was "Linux Format" March issue
	available for download)
Message-ID: <b02c40e90903040733s313ee980v1edae9e03468baf1@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/4/09, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Suppose you're trying to MIGRATE to Linux, but have no Linux
> machine available... then .zip is the best fileformat.

7-Zip is better.  It has a higher compression ratio.  Common Linux
archives tar/gz and tar/bzip2 are pathetically slow because they have
to be uncompressed first and then extract out the file listing from
the tar.  If I open a large archive like a Windows VMware image
(2-8GB) it can take 15 minutes just to get a file listing.  If I use
7-Zip it takes only seconds.  Extraction is faster also; I think that
most Linux tools extract the tar first and then its contents which
takes longer and uses up a lot of disk space.  Of course 7-Zip doesn't
support *nix file permissions but it's rarely an issue for me.


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 10:59:49 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 10:59:49 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Archive formats (was "Linux Format" March issue
 available for download)
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90903040733s313ee980v1edae9e03468baf1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e90903040733s313ee980v1edae9e03468baf1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49AEA575.6070001@gmail.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> On 3/4/09, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Suppose you're trying to MIGRATE to Linux, but have no Linux
>> machine available... then .zip is the best fileformat.
> 
> 7-Zip is better.  It has a higher compression ratio.  Common Linux
> archives tar/gz and tar/bzip2 are pathetically slow because they have
> to be uncompressed first and then extract out the file listing from
> the tar.

not at all:
tar xvf  somearchive.tar
tar xzvf somearchive.tar.gz


 

>     If I open a large archive like a Windows VMware image
> (2-8GB) it can take 15 minutes just to get a file listing.  If I use
> 7-Zip it takes only seconds.  Extraction is faster also; I think that

But who widespread is software which reads 7-zip archives,
not only on Linux, but most importantly, on Windows and OSX?

> most Linux tools extract the tar first and then its contents which
> takes longer and uses up a lot of disk space.  Of course 7-Zip doesn't
> support *nix file permissions but it's rarely an issue for me.

So in otherwords, it's has all of the disadvantages of
pkZIP format, with none of the installed base, although
it does extract faster -- which generally doesn't matter
because with compressed archives, the recipient generally
uses them once, and then either stores them, or removes
them from the system.

I think you're missing the big picture.


From tesral at wowway.com  Wed Mar  4 11:50:06 2009
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 11:50:06 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] "Linux Format" March issue available for download
In-Reply-To: <49AE761F.3040306@ameritech.net>
References: <b67fb0380903032029x325451e4rc85ce948e6efae71@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903040125130.2785@banana.sluggo.net>	<20090304090416.GC6073@squish.home.loc>
	<49AE761F.3040306@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <49AEB13E.2000408@wowway.com>

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Paul wrote:
>   
>> Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net>, on Wed Mar 04, 2009 [01:29:29 AM] said:
>>     
>>> 2009-03-03, Monsieur Michael Rudas a ecrit:
>>>       
>>>> The magazine is in PDF format and the DVD is available as an ISO; both
>>>> are torrents.
>>>>
>>>> <http://www.tuxradar.com/content/linux-format-free-download-24-hours-only>
>>>>         
>>> Heh, they put "Linux Format" in a zip file (linux_format_116.zip)!
>>> Zip doesn't strike me as the most Linux-y of archive formats. :)
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>       
>> 	Hi;
>>
>> 	No doubt! No one would want to associate Linux with the likes
>> of Java JAR files, python .egg files, silverlight and that ilk. And
>> then there are ODF files, google earth, and mozilla firefox add-ons...
>> WAIT!@#
>>
>> Paul
>> set at pobox.com
>>
>> ps. its all about CPIO...
>>     
>
> Oh yes, the old Convoluted, Perverse, Insane, Obtuse archive format. I
> have been learning a bit about that.
>   "In copy-out mode, cpio copies files into an archive."
>   "In copy-in mode, cpio copies files out of an archive"
> Makes sense to me.
>   

Sounds a bit like DMS.  Useful, but back ass-ward in the command line
syntax. 

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From tesral at wowway.com  Wed Mar  4 11:51:38 2009
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 11:51:38 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] "Linux Format" March issue available for download
In-Reply-To: <49AE88DB.8090204@gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380903032029x325451e4rc85ce948e6efae71@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903040125130.2785@banana.sluggo.net>
	<49AE88DB.8090204@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49AEB19A.30108@wowway.com>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> That's so those who don't yet have Linux can use it.
>
> Suppose you're trying to MIGRATE to Linux, but have no Linux
> machine available... then .zip is the best fileformat.
>   
I just felt the Earth shift, I'm agreeing with Aaron.  Zip is the most
common compression format and everyone but EVERYONE has it.


-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From radkins at impelind.com  Wed Mar  4 12:25:24 2009
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 12:25:24 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Archive formats (was "Linux Format" March issue
	available for download)
In-Reply-To: <49AEA575.6070001@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090304175044.BB531C0D8@impelind.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Kulkis
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 11:00 AM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Archive formats (was "Linux Format" 
> March issue available for download)
> 
> 
> But who widespread is software which reads 7-zip archives, 
> not only on Linux, but most importantly, on Windows and OSX?
> 

  7-zip runs on... everything. It's an open source program available for
quite a few platforms. Although, I must say that I never use its native
format. I use it to create and open up zip files, period.

-Rob



From bfotiu at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 12:57:23 2009
From: bfotiu at gmail.com (Brandon)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 12:57:23 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Archive formats (was "Linux Format" March
 issue	available for download)
In-Reply-To: <20090304175044.BB531C0D8@impelind.com>
References: <20090304175044.BB531C0D8@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <49AEC103.3060806@gmail.com>

Robert Adkins wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
>> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Kulkis
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 11:00 AM
>> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
>> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Archive formats (was "Linux Format" 
>> March issue available for download)
>>
>>
>> But who widespread is software which reads 7-zip archives, 
>> not only on Linux, but most importantly, on Windows and OSX?
>>
>>     
>
>   7-zip runs on... everything. It's an open source program available for
> quite a few platforms. Although, I must say that I never use its native
> format. I use it to create and open up zip files, period.
>
> -Rob
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>   


For whatever reason Microsoft made .zip files transparent to users (they 
just open as a folder would) and that's why it's what I use exclusively 
at work.  Of course I do use the 7-zip shell extension to make all my 
.zip files.  Try sending a .rar around here and you'll just get a bunch 
of blank stares.  Zip is fine in this case, especially since it's a one 
time use archive.

Brandon


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 14:12:16 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 14:12:16 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Archive formats (was "Linux Format" March issue
 available for download)
In-Reply-To: <20090304175044.BB531C0D8@impelind.com>
References: <20090304175044.BB531C0D8@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <49AED290.5090706@gmail.com>

Robert Adkins wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
>> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Kulkis
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 11:00 AM
>> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
>> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Archive formats (was "Linux Format" 
>> March issue available for download)
>>
>>
>> But who widespread is software which reads 7-zip archives, 
>> not only on Linux, but most importantly, on Windows and OSX?
>>
> 
>   7-zip runs on... everything.

But what's the installed base?

What percentage of users even know where to get 7-zip?

I'm not saying that it's a bad format -- only that it's
not appropriate for the purpose for which the archives
in question are being distributed.

The goal is to make the data as easily available to as
many people as possible, NOT to optimize decompression
time.

> It's an open source program available for
> quite a few platforms. Although, I must say that I never use its native
> format. I use it to create and open up zip files, period.
> 
> -Rob


From micorral at comcast.net  Wed Mar  4 15:28:05 2009
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 15:28:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] "Linux Format" March issue available for download
In-Reply-To: <20090304090416.GC6073@squish.home.loc>
References: <b67fb0380903032029x325451e4rc85ce948e6efae71@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903040125130.2785@banana.sluggo.net>
	<20090304090416.GC6073@squish.home.loc>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0903041515430.2182@banana.sluggo.net>

2009-03-04, Monsieur Paul a ecrit:
> Michael Corral, on Wed Mar 04, 2009 [01:29:29 AM] said:
>> Heh, they put "Linux Format" in a zip file (linux_format_116.zip)!
>> Zip doesn't strike me as the most Linux-y of archive formats. :)
>
> 	No doubt! No one would want to associate Linux with the likes
> of Java JAR files, python .egg files, silverlight and that ilk. And
> then there are ODF files, google earth, and mozilla firefox add-ons...
> WAIT!@#

Wow, that is strikingly similar to the third paragraph of the Wikipedia
article on the zip format, even preserving the order in which those
formats are mentioned!: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.zip

"Examples of this usage are Java JAR files, Python .egg files, SilverLight
.xap files...as well as OpenDocument and Office Open XML office formats...
Google Earth makes use of KMZ files...Mozilla Firefox Add-ons are zip
files with extension "xpi"."

You're ripping off the internets! :p

> ps. its all about CPIO...

But cpio has nothing on pax...

Michael


From micorral at comcast.net  Wed Mar  4 15:34:05 2009
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 15:34:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] "Linux Format" March issue available for download
In-Reply-To: <6f64e9540903040550i7ff2030fs19d46cd261d87e86@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380903032029x325451e4rc85ce948e6efae71@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903040125130.2785@banana.sluggo.net>
	<20090304090416.GC6073@squish.home.loc>
	<49AE761F.3040306@ameritech.net>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46924332998@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<6f64e9540903040550i7ff2030fs19d46cd261d87e86@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0903041533120.2741@banana.sluggo.net>

2009-03-04, Monsieur Brian a ecrit:
> Those are all so weak, they should have released it as a shar!

shar? Bah! That's for weaklings who can't handle ar, the UNIX archiver!

Michael


From tesral at wowway.com  Wed Mar  4 15:35:13 2009
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 15:35:13 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] "Linux Format" March issue available for download
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0903041533120.2741@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <b67fb0380903032029x325451e4rc85ce948e6efae71@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903040125130.2785@banana.sluggo.net>	<20090304090416.GC6073@squish.home.loc>	<49AE761F.3040306@ameritech.net>	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46924332998@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>	<6f64e9540903040550i7ff2030fs19d46cd261d87e86@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903041533120.2741@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <49AEE601.4050307@wowway.com>

Michael Corral wrote:
> 2009-03-04, Monsieur Brian a ecrit:
>   
>> Those are all so weak, they should have released it as a shar!
>>     
>
> shar? Bah! That's for weaklings who can't handle ar, the UNIX archiver!
>   

ZOO


-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From micorral at comcast.net  Wed Mar  4 15:38:06 2009
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 15:38:06 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] "Linux Format" March issue available for download
In-Reply-To: <49AE88DB.8090204@gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380903032029x325451e4rc85ce948e6efae71@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903040125130.2785@banana.sluggo.net>
	<49AE88DB.8090204@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0903041534420.2741@banana.sluggo.net>

2009-03-04, Monsieur Aaron Kulkis a ecrit:
> Michael Corral wrote:
>> Heh, they put "Linux Format" in a zip file (linux_format_116.zip)!
>> Zip doesn't strike me as the most Linux-y of archive formats. :)
>
> That's so those who don't yet have Linux can use it.

I know that you haven't used Windows since 1994, but WinZip (the most
widely-used zip software) has been able to handle tar.gz files since
forever. And of course Mac OS X users would have no trouble with tar.gz
either.

Michael


From micorral at comcast.net  Wed Mar  4 15:47:06 2009
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 15:47:06 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] "Linux Format" March issue available for download
In-Reply-To: <49AE8AC9.4000502@gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380903032029x325451e4rc85ce948e6efae71@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903040125130.2785@banana.sluggo.net>
	<20090304090416.GC6073@squish.home.loc>
	<49AE8AC9.4000502@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0903041540130.2839@banana.sluggo.net>

2009-03-04, Monsieur Aaron Kulkis a ecrit:
> Paul wrote:
>> ps. its all about CPIO...
>
> 25 1/2 years of using *nix, including over a decade as a sysadmin
> and systems engineer, and I've never once used cpio....

Then you haven't been paying attention. :) Since you use openSuse,
you are actually using cpio without knowing it. Try "rpm -e cpio"
and see what happens. RPM packages contain cpio archives.

Michael


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 16:31:46 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 16:31:46 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] "Linux Format" March issue available for download
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0903041534420.2741@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <b67fb0380903032029x325451e4rc85ce948e6efae71@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903040125130.2785@banana.sluggo.net>	<49AE88DB.8090204@gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903041534420.2741@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <49AEF342.8000005@gmail.com>

Michael Corral wrote:
> 2009-03-04, Monsieur Aaron Kulkis a ecrit:
>> Michael Corral wrote:
>>> Heh, they put "Linux Format" in a zip file (linux_format_116.zip)!
>>> Zip doesn't strike me as the most Linux-y of archive formats. :)
>> That's so those who don't yet have Linux can use it.
> 
> I know that you haven't used Windows

not by choice

> since 1994,

actually, I never had a computer at home until I built
one in 1997 (before then, I just used the computers at
work... not that there was much I needed a computer for
back in those days anyways)

> but WinZip (the most
> widely-used zip software) has been able to handle tar.gz files since
> forever. And of course Mac OS X users would have no trouble with tar.gz
> either.

I was talking about the 7zip software being not widely
installed.  But I can see your point on tar.gz.

I always find it ridiculous when I see something specifically
for Linux being distributed in .zip format.  Immediately makes
me suspect the source -- "recent immigrant from Windows -- proceed
with caution! They probably made many silly MS-based assumptions
about how things should be configured and operate."

> 
> Michael


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 17:02:30 2009
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 17:02:30 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Archive formats (was "Linux Format" March issue
	available for download)
In-Reply-To: <49AED290.5090706@gmail.com>
References: <20090304175044.BB531C0D8@impelind.com>
	<49AED290.5090706@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90903041402p152c4e96k244e516eb7269f21@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
> But what's the installed base?
>
> What percentage of users even know where to get 7-zip?
>
> I'm not saying that it's a bad format -- only that it's
> not appropriate for the purpose for which the archives
> in question are being distributed.

The .7z format is obviously not as popular as zip.  But zip is not a
great standard either as there have been different incompatible
implementations over the years (WinZip being responsible for a lot of
them).  My favorite are the ones that store full paths with the
filenames instead of a hierarchy so you end up with a single directory
of 100+ character filenames with forward slashes.  On the warez scene
I see mostly RAR and some bizarre combinations like RARs of zips.  ACE
is very rare.  Microsoft's archive format of choice was CAB.

But ARC was the original compression format on DOS and Phil Katz
cloned that first with PKARC before developing PKZip.  The popularity
of ARC didn't keep it on top.  If you had a zip file that you didn't
know how to open then you just asked someone for help.

> The goal is to make the data as easily available to as
> many people as possible, NOT to optimize decompression
> time.
>

So do you mail DOC and XLS files to people?  I don't.  If they need to
open my files then they can download OOo for free.  I only send DOC
and XLS when somebody is paying me to.  Clicking File > Save As and
having to select a format is more effort than I feel is necessary and
I expect to be compensated for it.

Since 7-Zip is free and has better compression and standardization
than any implementation of zip that I've tried then I don't have a
problem telling people to download it either.

I'm not going to let the popularity of one "industry standard" limit
my technological advancement using another.


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 18:18:47 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 18:18:47 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Archive formats (was "Linux Format" March issue
 available for download)
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90903041402p152c4e96k244e516eb7269f21@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090304175044.BB531C0D8@impelind.com>	<49AED290.5090706@gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90903041402p152c4e96k244e516eb7269f21@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49AF0C57.8040700@gmail.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> But what's the installed base?
>>
>> What percentage of users even know where to get 7-zip?
>>
>> I'm not saying that it's a bad format -- only that it's
>> not appropriate for the purpose for which the archives
>> in question are being distributed.
> 
> The .7z format is obviously not as popular as zip.  But zip is not a
> great standard either as there have been different incompatible
> implementations over the years (WinZip being responsible for a lot of
> them).  My favorite are the ones that store full paths with the
> filenames instead of a hierarchy so you end up with a single directory
> of 100+ character filenames with forward slashes.  On the warez scene
> I see mostly RAR and some bizarre combinations like RARs of zips.  ACE
> is very rare.  Microsoft's archive format of choice was CAB.
> 
> But ARC was the original compression format on DOS and Phil Katz
> cloned that first with PKARC before developing PKZip.  The popularity
> of ARC didn't keep it on top.  If you had a zip file that you didn't
> know how to open then you just asked someone for help.
> 
>> The goal is to make the data as easily available to as
>> many people as possible, NOT to optimize decompression
>> time.
>>
> 
> So do you mail DOC and XLS files to people?

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
The army, unfortunately, is standardized on .doc and .xls :-(,
although there is a movement afoot in the Pentagon to change that.

Someone has raised the point that giving the old Heave Ho to
MS Office would save the DOD substantial amounts of money which
could be better used for R&D to protect service personnel from
mines, IED's and EFP's.

>                                         I don't.  If they need to
> open my files then they can download OOo for free.  I only send DOC
> and XLS when somebody is paying me to.  Clicking File > Save As and
> having to select a format is more effort than I feel is necessary and
> I expect to be compensated for it.


Hahahah.

> 
> Since 7-Zip is free and has better compression and standardization
> than any implementation of zip that I've tried then I don't have a
> problem telling people to download it either.
> 
> I'm not going to let the popularity of one "industry standard" limit
> my technological advancement using another.

I have no problem with the idea or even spreading the use of
the .7z format.  What I'm saying is this -- don't erect
obscure barriers (a not-widely-known format) to information
that you want disseminated as widely as possible -- that's
just plain counter-productive.

The intent is that these downloads will be copied to the
computers of many Windows users... probably many who are
in locked-down Windows environments, in which only the
"lowest common denominator" type standards are used, and
the individual user's ability to load something like 7zip
to read the archive just plain old can't be relied upon.

It's basic communication -- speak in a language that your
audience understands.

If instead, I wrote this posting in Russian, NOBODY on
this list would understand what I was trying to say.
Same thing goes for distributing a download in an archive
format which most people don't know how to open up because
the required software is not on their computer, they don't
know where to get the software, and even if they did, a
large number couldn't install the software anyways because
their workplace desktop is locked down hard because Windows
inherently vulnerable to malware otherwise.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 18:36:33 2009
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 18:36:33 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Archive formats (was "Linux Format" March issue
	available for download)
In-Reply-To: <49AF0C57.8040700@gmail.com>
References: <20090304175044.BB531C0D8@impelind.com>
	<49AED290.5090706@gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90903041402p152c4e96k244e516eb7269f21@mail.gmail.com>
	<49AF0C57.8040700@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90903041536gda8735crf8f7082482f3f24b@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 6:18 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
> The intent is that these downloads will be copied to the
> computers of many Windows users... probably many who are
> in locked-down Windows environments, in which only the
> "lowest common denominator" type standards are used, and
> the individual user's ability to load something like 7zip
> to read the archive just plain old can't be relied upon.
>

Well it depends on the company.  If they're relying on the Windows
built-in archive support then it's a problem.  Many companies use
WinZip which supports it and so do most of the popular third-party
archivers (depending on the version):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_file_archivers#Archive_format_support

For the average Linux magazine reader the solution is only a Knoppix
or DSL CD away. :D


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 18:45:24 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 18:45:24 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Archive formats (was "Linux Format" March issue
 available for download)
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90903041536gda8735crf8f7082482f3f24b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090304175044.BB531C0D8@impelind.com>	<49AED290.5090706@gmail.com>	<b02c40e90903041402p152c4e96k244e516eb7269f21@mail.gmail.com>	<49AF0C57.8040700@gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90903041536gda8735crf8f7082482f3f24b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49AF1294.80209@gmail.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 6:18 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> The intent is that these downloads will be copied to the
>> computers of many Windows users... probably many who are
>> in locked-down Windows environments, in which only the
>> "lowest common denominator" type standards are used, and
>> the individual user's ability to load something like 7zip
>> to read the archive just plain old can't be relied upon.
>>
> 
> Well it depends on the company.

So, your proposing that the Linux Format wants their
archive read only by certain people, "depend[ing] on
the company" that they work at?

>  If they're relying on the Windows
> built-in archive support then it's a problem.

Which is precisely why the released it in .zip format,
and not a format normally associated with *nix.

>                                                 Many companies use
> WinZip which supports it and so do most of the popular third-party
> archivers (depending on the version):

Many do...and many others don't.

Large companies buy Winzip.  Smaller companies sometimes do
and sometimes don't, and many just use the .zip tool that
comes with baseline Windows -- and these businesses are the
very ones MOST EASILY converted to Linux -- because they
have fewer "must run Windows" applications.

> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_file_archivers#Archive_format_support
> 
> For the average Linux magazine reader the solution is only a Knoppix
> or DSL CD away. :D

Same problem -- most of these same computers, for company
data security reasons, have no optical drives, or the
optical drive is usable ONLY by a Windows Certified Button-Clicker,
as opposed to the luser who is a Windows Button-Clicker,
but not Certified at it.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 19:35:20 2009
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 19:35:20 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Archive formats (was "Linux Format" March issue
	available for download)
In-Reply-To: <49AF1294.80209@gmail.com>
References: <20090304175044.BB531C0D8@impelind.com>
	<49AED290.5090706@gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90903041402p152c4e96k244e516eb7269f21@mail.gmail.com>
	<49AF0C57.8040700@gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90903041536gda8735crf8f7082482f3f24b@mail.gmail.com>
	<49AF1294.80209@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90903041635u7a4629abkeadad47ef03d65aa@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 6:45 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Same problem -- most of these same computers, for company
> data security reasons, have no optical drives, or the
> optical drive is usable ONLY by a Windows Certified Button-Clicker,
> as opposed to the luser who is a Windows Button-Clicker,
> but not Certified at it.

True, but now we're really getting into improbable Linux Format
readers who work in a Windows environment that is locked down that
securely and don't have a less-secured computer and Internet
connection at home.


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 19:43:32 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 19:43:32 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Archive formats (was "Linux Format" March issue
 available for download)
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90903041402p152c4e96k244e516eb7269f21@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090304175044.BB531C0D8@impelind.com>	<49AED290.5090706@gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90903041402p152c4e96k244e516eb7269f21@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49AF2034.7040204@gmail.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> But what's the installed base?
>>
>> What percentage of users even know where to get 7-zip?
>>
>> I'm not saying that it's a bad format -- only that it's
>> not appropriate for the purpose for which the archives
>> in question are being distributed.
> 
> The .7z format is obviously not as popular as zip.  But zip is not a
> great standard either as there have been different incompatible
> implementations over the years (WinZip being responsible for a lot of
> them).  My favorite are the ones that store full paths with the
> filenames instead of a hierarchy so you end up with a single directory
> of 100+ character filenames with forward slashes.

Other than system software, people who make archives with
absolute pathnames should be beaten over the head with
their own computer so that they never do it again.

> On the warez scene
> I see mostly RAR and some bizarre combinations like RARs of zips.  ACE
> is very rare.  Microsoft's archive format of choice was CAB.

As I recall, RAR has the advantage of being easily divided
into smaller files

.rar => .rar00, .rar01, .rar02...

without the Unix command "split", which, for some strange reason,
has STILL not been discovered and migrated by the Windows world.
(nor it's complement, "cat" which can be used to re-concatenate
file chunks back into the original file)

RAR was extremely important when system memory sizes started
climbing, but the largest removable media was still the old
3.5" floppy. 


From tesral at wowway.com  Wed Mar  4 19:48:52 2009
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 19:48:52 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Archive formats (was "Linux Format" March issue
 available for download)
In-Reply-To: <49AF0C57.8040700@gmail.com>
References: <20090304175044.BB531C0D8@impelind.com>	<49AED290.5090706@gmail.com>	<b02c40e90903041402p152c4e96k244e516eb7269f21@mail.gmail.com>
	<49AF0C57.8040700@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49AF2174.2080407@wowway.com>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>
> If instead, I wrote this posting in Russian, NOBODY on
> this list would understand what I was trying to say.

?????????? ? ???? ??????????? ?????????.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 20:50:41 2009
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 20:50:41 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Archive formats (was "Linux Format" March issue
	available for download)
In-Reply-To: <49AF2034.7040204@gmail.com>
References: <20090304175044.BB531C0D8@impelind.com>
	<49AED290.5090706@gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90903041402p152c4e96k244e516eb7269f21@mail.gmail.com>
	<49AF2034.7040204@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90903041750i2508b057r6005a0f069a83d16@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
> As I recall, RAR has the advantage of being easily divided
> into smaller files
>
> .rar => .rar00, .rar01, .rar02...

Can be done with most current archive formats including zip.

> without the Unix command "split", which, for some strange reason,
> has STILL not been discovered and migrated by the Windows world.
> (nor it's complement, "cat" which can be used to re-concatenate
> file chunks back into the original file)

There's a bunch of third-party ones but nothing that's standard with the OS.

> RAR was extremely important when system memory sizes started
> climbing, but the largest removable media was still the old
> 3.5" floppy.

In the warez scene, file splitting is still used with online storage
accounts that have maximum file size limits.  It also used to be a way
to reduce reattempt costs if corruption occurred during transfer,
sometimes supplemented with Parchive:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parchive

Not as much an issue with a more stable Internet and protocols that
correct on the fly like BitTorrent.


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 20:56:29 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 20:56:29 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Archive formats (was "Linux Format" March issue
 available for download)
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90903041750i2508b057r6005a0f069a83d16@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090304175044.BB531C0D8@impelind.com>	<49AED290.5090706@gmail.com>	<b02c40e90903041402p152c4e96k244e516eb7269f21@mail.gmail.com>	<49AF2034.7040204@gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90903041750i2508b057r6005a0f069a83d16@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49AF314D.9040508@gmail.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> As I recall, RAR has the advantage of being easily divided
>> into smaller files
>>
>> .rar => .rar00, .rar01, .rar02...
> 
> Can be done with most current archive formats including zip.
> 
>> without the Unix command "split", which, for some strange reason,
>> has STILL not been discovered and migrated by the Windows world.
>> (nor it's complement, "cat" which can be used to re-concatenate
>> file chunks back into the original file)
> 
> There's a bunch of third-party ones but nothing that's standard with the OS.
> 
>> RAR was extremely important when system memory sizes started
>> climbing, but the largest removable media was still the old
>> 3.5" floppy.
> 
> In the warez scene, file splitting is still used with online storage
> accounts that have maximum file size limits.  It also used to be a way
> to reduce reattempt costs if corruption occurred during transfer,
> sometimes supplemented with Parchive:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parchive
> 
> Not as much an issue with a more stable Internet and protocols that
> correct on the fly like BitTorrent.

TCP connections are M-error-detecting/N-error-correcting
up to N and M bits per packet, where N and M are two
integer which I don't know off hand.  Both are greater
than 1, and M is approximately 2N (either 2N+1, or 2N-1,
I forget, because it's been a 21 years since I took
EE362, Discrete and Continuous Mathematics)


From ldaphelp at thuemmel.com  Wed Mar  4 22:56:59 2009
From: ldaphelp at thuemmel.com (Mark Thuemmel)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 22:56:59 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Global Linux Meeting March 7 Sat BerkeleyTIP -Global -
	For Forwarding
In-Reply-To: <1236176372.7932.1303588033@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1236176372.7932.1303588033@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <49AF4D8B.5000600@thuemmel.com>

Hi John,

I don't think I have much pull, but here is a go at it.....

John is in a LUG in CA that meets the first Saturday of each month.  I
found them interesting in that they try to use Ekiga to VOIP the
meeting.  I have joined in the last two months.  I was able to meet a
couple of people that shared my interest in Linux and chat with them
over my Linux box and USB headset with Ekiga.  The sound quality was
great, at least until a bunch a people get in with open mics.  But
showing up early let me participate in some good chat.

The BerkleleyTIP group was great, but I was dreaming of something a bit
more frequent than once a month.  I didn't think I could commit to the
first Saturday of each month, especially with Spring around the corner.
So I started www.virtuallug.com with the idea of Ekiga meet-ups on
Thursday nights at 9:00.

So, please consider joining the BerkleyTIP this Saturday and/or
www.virtuallug.com this Thursday for some extra Linux stuff.



john_re wrote:
> Hi Mark, MDLUGgers :)
> 
> Mark - (I've got the correct Mark, right?) Why don't you organize a
> local simultaneous meeting this Saturday? Then a group of yall can join
> in.  :)
> 
> Hey - ain't those /. folks not too far from you?  Any chance you got an
> inside track to getting this meeting announced there?  ;)
> 
> ====
> Ekiga(Gnome meeting), Asterisk, Xen, Virtualbox, Debian 15 Years, Free
> and Open Future, Amarok, ZFS, FreeBSD, Python, OLPC
> 
> 
> =====  SCHEDULE
> Schedule: All times Pacific Std Time = GMT -8H 
>              ex: 10A PST = 1P Eastern ST
> 10 A    Begin:  Set up.  Get on IRC & VOIP
> 11 A    Ekiga3 talk LIVE
>         INSTALLFEST begin
> 12 N    Asterisk, OLPC;
>         PROGRAMMING PARTY: VOIP Conference client & server
>  1 P    Xen, Virtualbox; GNOME
>  2 P    KDE ? GUI; Macintosh
>  3 P    Debian; BSD; College & University groups
>  4 P    Free & Open Future; Culture; Hardware
>  5 P    LIGHTNING TALKS
>         Python; INetWebDev; Local Simultaneous Meetings Arrangements
> 
> 
> =====  PHYSICAL LOCATION: UC Berkeley FREE SPEECH CAFE
> At Moffitt Undergrad Library.
> http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=37.872558,-122.260795&spn=0.001776,0.002529&z=19
> http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/directions
> BART: Berkeley Downtown Station.
> Caltrain: Berkeley Station, bus up University to campus.
> Car: 880 Freeway, University Exit.
> 
> =====  IRC & VOIP
> Join IRC freenode.net #berkeleytip, & we'll help you get on VOIP
> http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/remote-attendance
> 
> 
> ===== Come to the: Great global meeting planned for this Saturday!  :)
> 
> Yes!  You can join in with the friendly global BTIP people - get a
> headset & join the VOIP conference, from home, or wherever.  Hey -
> invite your friends over & you can haz parte.  ;)
> 
> Be the first in your state - or country - to join in.  Since Chaitanya
> joined from India in February, we have now officially moved up to
> global.  :)
> 
> BerkeleyTIP - Global Monthly GNU(Linux), BSD & All Free SW HW & Culture
> meeting.
> Talks, Installfest, Potluck & ProgrammingParty
> Educational, Productive, Social
> http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/
> 
> 
> =====  TALKS:  11A LIVE, - DOWNLOAD & WATCH VIDEOS BEFORE
> Ekiga 3 on KUbuntu 8.04 - Chaitanya Mehandru, LIVE 11AM PST = GMT -8H
> Asterisk Free Software Telephone System - Paul Charles Leddy, NYLUG-08
> Xen Virtualization - Ian Pratt, FOSDEM-08
> Virtualbox, Achim Hasenmueller, FOSDEM-08
> Debian, Bdale Garbee, FOSDEM-09
> Free and Open Future - Mark Surman, FOSDEM-09
> Amarok v2 - Akademy-08
> Debian: 15 Years and Counting - Steve McIntyre, Debconf-08 - Keynote
> ZFS for FreeBSD - Pawel Jakub Dawidek, MeetBSD-08
> Python on the OLPC laptop -  Ed Cherlin, BayPIGgies-08
> 
> Links to the videos & more info here:
> http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/talk-videos
> Suggestion:  Download & watch the videos _you_ are interested in
> _before_ the meeting, so you can spend the scheduled topic time
> _discussing_ that talk.
> 
> All the talk/video speakers are invited to join in for Q&A & discussion.
> [Please pass that word on to the speakers, because I probably wont have
> time to notify them individually.]
> 
> Thanks to all the speakerz, videographerz, & sponsoring groupiez.  :)
> & doubble plus big thanks to David Fox, r noo talk/vid finder/scheduler.
>  :)
> 
> ==  LIGHTNING TALKS - 5PM - Sign up anytime.
> 
> 
> =====  PROGRAMMING PARTY:
> 1) Help get Ekiga 3 compiled, running & packaged for KUbuntu8.04
> 2) Help get a local Asterisk VOIP conference server working.
> 3) Whatever _you_ are interested in - Email the list inviting us to join
> on your project.  :)
> 
> 
> =====  PEOPLE ARE TALKING:
> Chris said:  the meeting went very well for Feb. 7.
> 
> Windsor said:  I am interested in Jack's
> idea of focusing a group on promotion of Linux as a desktop operating
> system and targeting perspective Linux users. I'm enthusiastic about
> doing something to this effect, like hosting an install night, standing
> in Sproul Plaza near a card table, etc..
> 
> David said:  the USB headset I ordered and will
> pick up at the post office tomorrow - 
> Markt9 (from virtual lug) told me that it was a very nice one. I can't
> wait until I get the chance to try it live.
> 
> & Windsor says: I posted some guidelines for people editing the web
> page. Also, (and I'm not trying to be a kill-joy) I think the smilies
> should be left in IRC and private e-mails. Every time I see one on the
> site I think of myspace.com or icanhazcheeseburger.com.
> 
> john_re says: Thanks for the tipz, everyone. - I'll keep 'em in mind. 
> ;)
> 
> ps: & more doubbble pluz big thanks to Windsor, for the new website
> design.  :)
> 
> [Someone, call the doctor, got a case of love bipolar.  Staccato, roller
> coaster, can't get off this riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide.]
> http://equine-ranch.com/horseinfo.php?horseid=240482
> 
> 
> =====  JOIN THE MAILING LIST
> & say "Hi", where you're from, what you're interested in, & whatever
> project you invite others to join in on.
> http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal
> Click "Join this group" on the right side of the page.
> 
> 
> =====  FLYER
> - Opportunity - Put 10 up so your friends will know.
> http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/home/March09_BTIPFlyer.odt?attredirects=0
> 
> 
> ====  FOR FORWARDING -
> You are invited to forward this message anywhere appropriate.
> 
> C-ya there :)
> 



From john_re at fastmail.us  Thu Mar  5 01:33:27 2009
From: john_re at fastmail.us (john_re)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 22:33:27 -0800
Subject: [mdlug] Global Linux Meeting March 7 Sat BerkeleyTIP -Global -
 For Forwarding
In-Reply-To: <49AF4D8B.5000600@thuemmel.com>
References: <1236176372.7932.1303588033@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<49AF4D8B.5000600@thuemmel.com>
Message-ID: <1236234807.9495.1303734933@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Great Mark!  :)

I'm gonna try to make a spot in my schedule to connect with your
virtuallug meeting tomorrow - at least long enough to say "hi". :)  
IIgotItCorrectly: 9P Detroit = Eastern time = 6PM Pacific time.

One suggestion for you:  If you're gonna try to get online with BTIP, &
are able to commit yourself for any specific time, put in your message
that info, & find a public place (or your home if you prefer, but a
public place, like a wifi cafe, or a school, is often more convenient) &
just say "we're all gonna meet here - anyone who is interested."

This is my suggestion based on my understanding & internalization of
Evan Prodromou's BAD shotgun rules:
http://bad.debian.net/shotgun_rules.txt
[Props, Evan. ;)  ]

On Wed, 04 Mar 2009 22:56:59 -0500, "Mark Thuemmel"
<ldaphelp at thuemmel.com> said:
> Hi John,
> 
> I don't think I have much pull, but here is a go at it.....

It is not _us_ who has pull, merely our ideas & our efforts.  ;)
 

> 
> John is in a LUG in CA that meets the first Saturday of each month.  I
> found them interesting in that they try to use Ekiga to VOIP the
> meeting.  I have joined in the last two months.  I was able to meet a
> couple of people that shared my interest in Linux and chat with them
> over my Linux box and USB headset with Ekiga.  The sound quality was
> great, at least until a bunch a people get in with open mics.  But

BTIP members - note that last sentence - I think we need to implement
some sort of "push to talk" mechanism, for this VOIP conference to work
properly.  Is that possible in Ekiga?  Or, maybe using a headset "mute"
button? - at least for when each is not actively in a conversation.



> showing up early let me participate in some good chat.
> 
> The BerkleleyTIP group was great, but I was dreaming of something a bit
> more frequent than once a month.  I didn't think I could commit to the
> first Saturday of each month, especially with Spring around the corner.
> So I started www.virtuallug.com with the idea of Ekiga meet-ups on
> Thursday nights at 9:00.
> 
> So, please consider joining the BerkleyTIP this Saturday and/or
> www.virtuallug.com this Thursday for some extra Linux stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> john_re wrote:
> > Hi Mark, MDLUGgers :)
> > 
> > Mark - (I've got the correct Mark, right?) Why don't you organize a
> > local simultaneous meeting this Saturday? Then a group of yall can join
> > in.  :)
> > 
> > Hey - ain't those /. folks not too far from you?  Any chance you got an
> > inside track to getting this meeting announced there?  ;)
> > 
> > ====
> > Ekiga(Gnome meeting), Asterisk, Xen, Virtualbox, Debian 15 Years, Free
> > and Open Future, Amarok, ZFS, FreeBSD, Python, OLPC
> > 
> > 
> > =====  SCHEDULE
> > Schedule: All times Pacific Std Time = GMT -8H 
> >              ex: 10A PST = 1P Eastern ST
> > 10 A    Begin:  Set up.  Get on IRC & VOIP
> > 11 A    Ekiga3 talk LIVE
> >         INSTALLFEST begin
> > 12 N    Asterisk, OLPC;
> >         PROGRAMMING PARTY: VOIP Conference client & server
> >  1 P    Xen, Virtualbox; GNOME
> >  2 P    KDE &#8211; GUI; Macintosh


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Thu Mar  5 15:04:16 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 15:04:16 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] IT Legal case,
	and excellant photo of 1970's hard disk technology
Message-ID: <49B03040.3080004@gmail.com>

<http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/03/court-self-incrimination-privilege-stops-with-passwords.ars>


From tesral at wowway.com  Thu Mar  5 15:25:46 2009
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 15:25:46 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] IT Legal case,
 and excellant photo of 1970's hard disk technology
In-Reply-To: <49B03040.3080004@gmail.com>
References: <49B03040.3080004@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49B0354A.6040604@wowway.com>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> <http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/03/court-self-incrimination-privilege-stops-with-passwords.ars>
>   
Back in 97 I bought a pair of external SCSI drive boxes that had Fujitsu
1 gig drives in them,  5.25" full bay jobs.  Some time later one
failed.  I cracked it open and that is what it looked like.  The thing
had 12 platters.  The other one still works.


-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From radkins at impelind.com  Thu Mar  5 15:25:37 2009
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 15:25:37 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] IT Legal case,
	and excellant photo of 1970's hard disk technology
In-Reply-To: <49B03040.3080004@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090305205102.872AAC0D8@impelind.com>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Kulkis
> Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 3:04 PM
> To: mdlug at mdlug.org
> Subject: [mdlug] IT Legal case,and excellant photo of 1970's 
> hard disk technology
> 
> <http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/03/court-self-in
> crimination-privilege-stops-with-passwords.ars>
> _______________________________________________

	I wouldn't call this an "IT Case" so much as a criminal case
involving child subject pornography. Yes, it could have ramifications for
IT, yet in this particular case, the information is known to exist on the
laptop, as it was seen by the authorities before it became inaccessible.

	I am of the opinion, as it appears the judges involved in this
latest decision also happen to be, that if nothing was ever seen, then it
would be a 5th Amendment issue.

	-Rob



From set at pobox.com  Fri Mar  6 00:47:42 2009
From: set at pobox.com (Paul)
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 00:47:42 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] IT Legal case,
	and excellant photo of 1970's hard disk	technology
In-Reply-To: <49B0354A.6040604@wowway.com>
References: <49B03040.3080004@gmail.com> <49B0354A.6040604@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <20090306054742.GE6073@squish.home.loc>

Garry Stahl <tesral at wowway.com>, on Thu Mar 05, 2009 [03:25:46 PM] said:
> Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> > <http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/03/court-self-incrimination-privilege-stops-with-passwords.ars>
> >   
> Back in 97 I bought a pair of external SCSI drive boxes that had Fujitsu
> 1 gig drives in them,  5.25" full bay jobs.  Some time later one
> failed.  I cracked it open and that is what it looked like.  The thing
> had 12 platters.  The other one still works.
> 

	Hi;

	Actually; that looks like a drive with a removable disc pack.
You can see the heads have been retracted and the little rollers
compressed the opposing heads to draw away from the platters. The
ones I have seen like this were typically about the size of a washing
machine and the discs were 14" platters. Commonly found in dinosaur
pens.

Paul
set at pobox.com


From set at pobox.com  Fri Mar  6 00:57:03 2009
From: set at pobox.com (Paul)
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 00:57:03 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] IT Legal case,
	and excellant photo of 1970's hard disk	technology
In-Reply-To: <20090306054742.GE6073@squish.home.loc>
References: <49B03040.3080004@gmail.com> <49B0354A.6040604@wowway.com>
	<20090306054742.GE6073@squish.home.loc>
Message-ID: <20090306055703.GF6073@squish.home.loc>

Paul <set at pobox.com>, on Fri Mar 06, 2009 [12:47:42 AM] said:
> > Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> > > <http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/03/court-self-incrimination-privilege-stops-with-passwords.ars>
> > >   
> 	Hi;
> 
> 	Actually; that looks like a drive with a removable disc pack.
> You can see the heads have been retracted and the little rollers
> compressed the opposing heads to draw away from the platters. The
> ones I have seen like this were typically about the size of a washing
> machine and the discs were 14" platters. Commonly found in dinosaur
> pens.
> 

	Looking again, those rollers may be some sort of assembly
tool. Hard to tell. The thickness of the discs also look to be
way to thick proportionally for 14" platters. The discs are definitely
fairly old, as they look aluminum and have a ferric oxide coating.

Paul
set at pobox.com


From driveray at ameritech.net  Fri Mar  6 01:02:21 2009
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 01:02:21 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] President's mail bag: O'reilly news
Message-ID: <49B0BC6D.9020301@ameritech.net>

O'Reilly News for User Group Members
March 5, 2009

New Releases: Books, Short Cuts, and Rough Cuts

Get 35% off from O'Reilly, No Starch, Paraglyph, PC Publishing,
Pragmatic Bookshelf, Rocky Nook, SitePoint, or YoungJin books you
purchase directly from O'Reilly. Just use code "DSUG" when ordering
online or by phone 800-998-9938.

Free ground shipping on orders of $29.95 or more. See details.

Did you know you can request a free book or PDF to review for your
group? Ask your group leader for more information.

For book review writing tips and suggestions, go to:
http://ug.oreilly.com/bookreviews.html

New Releases: Books, Short Cuts, and Rough Cuts:

    * 97 Things Every Software Architect Should Know
    * Adobe Illustrator CS4 One-on-One
    * Agile Web Development with Rails, Third Edition (Pragmatic Bookshelf)
    * Apprenticeship Patterns
    * Architectural Photography (Rocky Nook)
    * Beautiful Teams
    * Build a Better Photograph (Rocky Nook)
    * Cisco Routers for the Desperate, Second Edition (No Starch)
    * Cocoa Programming (Pragmatic Bookshelf)
    * Computer Orchestration Tips and Tricks (PC Publishing)
    * Data Warehousing with SAP BW7 BI in SAP Netweaver 2004s (Rocky Nook)
    * Growing Software (No Starch)
    * iMovie '09 and iDVD: The Missing Manual
    * iWork '09: The Missing Manual: Rough Cuts Version
    * Java Web Services: Up and Running
    * Make: Technology on Your Time Volume 17
    * Manage Your Project Portfolio (Pragmatic Bookshelf)
    * Masterminds of Programming
    * Network Know-How (No Starch)
    * Palm webOS: Rough Cuts Version
    * Photoshop CS4 Photographer's Handbook (Rocky Nook)
    * Practical Digital Photomicrography (Hard Cover) (Rocky Nook)
    * Programming Entity Framework
    * Programming F#: Rough Cuts Version
    * Programming Ruby 1.9 (Pragmatic Bookshelf)
    * Programming Scala (Pragmatic Bookshelf)
    * Programming Scala: Rough Cuts Version
    * Programming the Semantic Web: Rough Cuts Version
    * Scanning Negatives and Slides, Second Edition (Rocky Nook)
    * Security Monitoring
    * Sexy Web Design (SitePoint)
    * Take Control of Running Windows on a Mac, Third Edition (TidBITS)
    * The Book of Inkscape (No Starch)
    * The Manga Guide to Electricity (No Starch)
    * The Nikon Creative Lighting System (Rocky Nook)
    * The Nikon D90 Companion



MAKE Magazine Subscriptions
makezine.comThe annual subscription price for four issues is $34.95.
When you subscribe with this link, you'll get a free issue--one plus
four more for $34.95. So subscribe for yourself or friends with this
great offer for UG Members: five volumes for the cost of four.

Subscribe at: http://www.makezine.com/go/ugsub

Upcoming Events
For more events, please see: events.oreilly.com


Lesa Snider King at Geek Girl Camp
Mar 7, 2009
Cape Cod Community College
Hyannis, MA
Author Lesa Snider King (Photoshop CS4: The Missing Manual) presents her
digital photography and Photoshop Elements workshop "How to Shoot & Edit
Like a Pro". She's also teaching "Graphic Secrets for Presenters" which
focuses on how to give better presentations by telling your story
through pictures, and how to use Photoshop or Elements to turn the
imagery you have into the imagery you need.

Joshua-Michele Ross Featured on "Press:Here"
Mar 8, 2009
Joshua-Michele Ross will be featured on "Press:Here," joined by John
Schwarz from USA Today and Sarah Lacey from Business Week and Yahoo. The
topic will be on Twitter--exploring questions such as what is the value
of Twitter to you personally, professionally, and to your brand.

Emerging Technology Conference (ETech)
Mar 9-11, 2009
Fairmont San Jose
San Jose, CA
Joshua-Michele RossThe O'Reilly Emerging Technology Conference (ETech)
centers on future technologies that truly matter. From robotics, health
care, and space travel to gaming, finance, and art, ETech explores
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those that have been on the horizon too long.

Dean Wampler at SD West
Mar 10-12, 2009
Santa Clara Convention Center
Santa Clara, CA
Author Dean Wampler (co-author of Programming Scala) is teaching a
tutorial on "The Seductions of Scala" and a class on "Better Ruby
through Functional Programming" at SD West 2009. The tutorial is March
10th and the class is March 12th.

Nancy Duarte Presenting at the Forum for Women Entrepreneurs & Executives
Mar 11, 2009
Menlo Park, CA
Nancy Duarte Nancy Duarte (slide:ology) will be presenting at the Forum
for Women Entrepreneurs & Executives (FWE&E). You'll gain insights into
story structures and the power that a well developed and delivered
presentation can have.

QCon London 2009
Mar 11-13, 2009
The Queen Elizabeth II Conference Centre
London, UK
The third annual London enterprise software development conference
designed for team leads, architects and project management is back!
There is no other event in the UK with similar opportunities for
learning, networking, and tracking innovation occurring in the Java,
.NET, Ruby, SOA, Agile, and architecture communities. Madness and fun!

Lesa Snider King at Geek Girl Camp
Mar 12, 2009
Lombardo's
Randolph, MA
Author Lesa Snider King (Photoshop CS4: The Missing Manual) presents her
digital photography and Photoshop Elements workshop "How to Shoot & Edit
Like a Pro". She's also teaching "Graphic Secrets for Presenters" which
focuses on how to give better presentations by telling your story
through pictures, and how to use Photoshop or Elements to turn the
imagery you have into the imagery you need.

Ken Lunde at Worldware Conference
Mar 17-19, 2009
Hilton Santa Clara
Santa Clara, CA
Author Ken Lunde (CJKV Information Processing) presents "GB 18030 ???
Regional Challenges in Internationalizing Software."

Wendy Chisholm and Matt May at SXSW
Mar 17, 2009
Room Day Stage, Austin Convention Center
Austin, TX
Authors Wendy Chisholm and Matt May read from and discuss Universal
Design for Web Applications.

Nancy Duarte Speaks at presentation//reboot
Mar 17-19, 2009
Duarte Design, 161 E. Evelyn Ave.
Mountain View, CA
Nancy Duarte (slide:ology) and Garr Reynolds host a six-hour seminar on
presentations. This seminar will transform you into a creative thinker
and change the way you prepare, design, and deliver your next
presentation. Choose from three different days, and register now--space
is limited.

Bill Scott at Mix09
Mar 18-20, 2009
The Venetian
Las Vegas, NV, USA
Author Bill Scott (Designing Web Interfaces: Principles and Patterns for
Rich Interaction) will be presenting "Interactive Prototyping with DHTML."

Nancy Duarte Honored at Silicon Valley's 2009 Women of Influence Awards
Mar 18, 2009
The Fairmont Hotel
San Jose, CA
Silicon Valley/San Jose Business Journal and El Camino Hospital will
recognize 100 outstanding women who exercise power and influence within
business, government, or nonprofits in Silicon Valley, and serve as role
models for future generations of leaders. Among the honorees is Nancy
Duarte, author of slide:ology. Registration is mandatory.

Stephen Johnson Gives a Class on Hands-on Digital Black and White Printing
Mar 19-22, 2009
Stephen Johnson Studios & Gallery
Pacifica, CA
Join Stephen Johnson (Stephen Johnson on Digital Photography) in his
studio for four days of hands-on printing instruction.

Dux Raymond Sy presents "7 Ways to Leverage SharePoint for Project
Management Success"
Mar 23, 2009
Sheraton Inner Harbor
Baltimore, MD, USA
SharePoint for PM Dux Raymond Sy (SharePoint for Project Management)
will present "7 Ways to Leverage SharePoint for Project Management
Success" at the SharePoint Conference.ORG. Acquire the practical
knowledge of how SharePoint can address common project management
challenges such as Inefficient communication among stakeholders, poor
document management practices, and undefined project collaboration
standards that can compromise project success.

Lesa Snider King at Photoshop World Boston
Mar 25, 2009
Hynes Convention Center
Boston, MA
Lesa Snider King (Photoshop CS4: The Missing Manual) presents "Graphic
Secrets: Combining Photos & Vectors." Learn how to easily combine
illustrations with photography in this super creative session. Glean the
secret to importing vectors into your document so you can experiment
with them as backgrounds, artful embellishments, ornamental photo
frames, and more -- all without losing an ounce of quality!

Dux Raymond Sy presents: "Empowering Your Organization with SharePoint:
An Executive Seminar"
Mar 30, 2009
Learning Tree Alexandria Education Center
Alexandria, VA
Over the course of one day, SharePoint expert Dux Raymond Sy (SharePoint
for Project Management) will detail the benefits SharePoint can deliver
to your organization through a combination of lecture, presentations and
demonstrations. This comprehensive, non-technical overview is designed
to help you assess how SharePoint Technologies can have a positive
effect on your company???s productivity and competitiveness.

"Using Drupal" Authors Present Lullabot Drupal Workshops
Mar 30-Apr 3, 2009
Biltmore Hotel
Providence, RI
Authors James Walker, Jeff Robbins, Angie Byron, and Nate Haug (Using
Drupal) will be leading a week of Drupal workshops in Providence, RI.

Conference News


Emerging Technology Conference Last Chance--Emerging Technology
Conference 2009
March 9-12, 2009 in San Jose, CA

Use code "et09usrg" when you register, and receive an additional 30% off
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O'Reilly Found, The Search Acquisition and Architecture Conference
O'Reilly Found, The Search Acquisition and Architecture Conference
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Use code "fo09usrg" when you register, and receive 15% off the
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Velocity 2009 Velocity 2009
June 22-24, 2009 in San Jose, CA

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RailsConf 2009 RailsConf 2009
May 4-7, 2009 in Las Vegas, NV
Co-presented by O'Reilly Media and Ruby Central


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April 20-23, 2009 in Santa Clara, CA
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OSCON 2009 OSCON 2009
July 20-24, 2009 in San Jose, CA

If you have ideas for speakers and topics please send them to:
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Ignite Logo Ignite
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Create your own Ignite in your area.

Upcoming Ignite events:

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Listen to the O'Reilly Week in Review
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Subversion Can Subversion help teams work better? Tell us and you could
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State of the Computer Book Market 2008
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    * Part 2: The Technologies
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Back in December, Dell reported that offers from its Dell Outlet Twitter
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Call For Makers: Maker Faire Bay Area 2009
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Sneak Peek at iWork '09 & Share Your Tips Contest
Currently available as a Rough Cut, the new book will teach you
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the web). Then, take a minute to share an iWork '09 tip and you could
win free access to iWork '09: The Missing Manual: Rough Cuts Version.

What You'll Find in "Ruby Best Practices"
When Ruby Best Practices first entered roughcuts, Gregory Brown passed
on a couple copies to some reviewers to see what they thought, and Peter
Cooper summed things up pretty accurately.
And here's a sample chapter "Mastering the Dynamic Toolkit" in PDF.

Ignite Launches Weekly Video Series Highlighting the Best of GeekCulture
Ignite captures the best of geek culture in a series of five-minute
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to "Hacking Chocolate" to "Transhuman Technology Trends." Imagine that
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smartest minds on the planet dealt with this situation as your host,
Brady Forrest, highlights a different talk from Ignites around the world.
Safari

Safari Books Online Optimizes for Top Mobile Devices
Safari Books Online Ubiquitous for Users On-the-Go Safari Books Online
is now fully optimized to support the top mobile devices in the United
States. The new website, m.safaribooksonline.com, optimizes Safari Books
Online's content and reading experience for the majority of mobile
phones (such as Nokia, BlackBerry, iPhone, and Windows Mobile), making
it possible for users to read while on-the-go.

ETech Preview: Creating Biological Legos
If you've gotten tired of hacking firewalls or cloud computing, maybe
it's time to try your hand with DNA. That's what Reshma Shetty is doing
with her Doctorate in Biological Engineering from MIT. Apart from her
crowning achievement of getting bacteria to smell like mint and bananas,
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recently helped found a company called Gingko BioWorks which is
developing enabling technologies to allow for rapid prototyping of
biological systems.

ETech Preview: Inside Factory China, An Interview with Andrew Huang
China has become the production workhorse of the consumer electronics
industry. Almost anything you pick up at a Best Buy first breathed life
across the Pacific Ocean. But what is it like to shepherd a product
through the design and production process? Andrew "bunnie" Huang has
done just that with the Chumby, a new internet appliance.
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From driveray at ameritech.net  Fri Mar  6 01:09:00 2009
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 01:09:00 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] O'reilly new, with links
Message-ID: <49B0BDFC.9@ameritech.net>

O'Reilly News for User Group Members
March 5, 2009

New Releases: Books, Short Cuts, and Rough Cuts

Get 35% off from O'Reilly, No Starch, Paraglyph, PC Publishing,
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      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596522698>
    * Adobe Illustrator CS4 One-on-One
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596515928>
    * Agile Web Development with Rails, Third Edition
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781934356166> (/Pragmatic
      Bookshelf/)
    * Apprenticeship Patterns
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596518387>
    * Architectural Photography
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781933952437> (/Rocky Nook/)
    * Beautiful Teams <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596518028>
    * Build a Better Photograph
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781933952185> (/Rocky Nook/)
    * Cisco Routers for the Desperate, Second Edition
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781593271930> (/No Starch/)
    * Cocoa Programming <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781934356302>
      (/Pragmatic Bookshelf/)
    * Computer Orchestration Tips and Tricks
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781906005054> (/PC Publishing/)
    * Data Warehousing with SAP BW7 BI in SAP Netweaver 2004s
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781933952406> (/Rocky Nook/)
    * Growing Software <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781593271831>
      (/No Starch/)
    * iMovie '09 and iDVD: The Missing Manual
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596801410>
    * iWork '09: The Missing Manual: Rough Cuts Version
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596801854>
    * Java Web Services: Up and Running
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596521127>
    * Make: Technology on Your Time Volume 17
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596155605>
    * Manage Your Project Portfolio
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781934356296> (/Pragmatic
      Bookshelf/)
    * Masterminds of Programming
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596515171>
    * Network Know-How <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781593271916>
      (/No Starch/)
    * Palm webOS: Rough Cuts Version
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596801816>
    * Photoshop CS4 Photographer's Handbook
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781933952420> (/Rocky Nook/)
    * Practical Digital Photomicrography (Hard Cover)
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781933952079> (/Rocky Nook/)
    * Programming Entity Framework
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596520281>
    * Programming F#: Rough Cuts Version
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596801359>
    * Programming Ruby 1.9
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781934356081> (/Pragmatic
      Bookshelf/)
    * Programming Scala <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781934356319>
      (/Pragmatic Bookshelf/)
    * Programming Scala: Rough Cuts Version
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596157746>
    * Programming the Semantic Web: Rough Cuts Version
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596802066>
    * Scanning Negatives and Slides, Second Edition
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781933952307> (/Rocky Nook/)
    * Security Monitoring <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596518165>
    * Sexy Web Design <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780980455236>
      (/SitePoint/)
    * Take Control of Running Windows on a Mac, Third Edition
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781933671536> (/TidBITS/)
    * The Book of Inkscape
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781593271817> (/No Starch/)
    * The Manga Guide to Electricity
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781593271978> (/No Starch/)
    * The Nikon Creative Lighting System
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781933952413> (/Rocky Nook/)
    * The Nikon D90 Companion
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596159870>



MAKE Magazine Subscriptions

makezine.com <http://makezine.com/magazine/>The annual subscription
price for four issues is $34.95. When you subscribe with this link,
you'll get a free issue--one plus four more for $34.95. So subscribe for
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Subscribe at: http://www.makezine.com/go/ugsub
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Upcoming Events

For more events, please see: events.oreilly.com
<http://events.oreilly.com/>


* Lesa Snider King at Geek Girl Camp <http://geekgirlcamp.com/> *
* Mar 7, 2009 *
Cape Cod Community College
Hyannis, MA
Author Lesa Snider King (*Photoshop CS4: The Missing Manual*
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596522964>) presents her digital
photography and Photoshop Elements workshop "How to Shoot & Edit Like a
Pro". She's also teaching "Graphic Secrets for Presenters" which focuses
on how to give better presentations by telling your story through
pictures, and how to use Photoshop or Elements to turn the imagery you
have into the imagery you need.

* Joshua-Michele Ross Featured on "Press:Here"
<http://www.pressheretv.com> *
* Mar 8, 2009 *
Joshua-Michele Ross <http://radar.oreilly.com/josh/> will be featured on
"Press:Here," joined by John Schwarz from USA Today and Sarah Lacey from
Business Week and Yahoo. The topic will be on Twitter--exploring
questions such as what is the value of Twitter to you personally,
professionally, and to your brand.

* Emerging Technology Conference (ETech)
<http://conferences.oreilly.com/etech> *
* Mar 9-11, 2009 *
Fairmont San Jose
San Jose, CA
Joshua-Michele Ross <http://radar.oreilly.com/josh/> The O'Reilly
Emerging Technology Conference (ETech) centers on future technologies
that truly matter. From robotics, health care, and space travel to
gaming, finance, and art, ETech explores promising technologies new to
the innovation horizon, and investigates those that have been on the
horizon too long.

* Dean Wampler at SD West
<https://www.cmpevents.com/SDw9/a.asp?option=G&V=3&id=447368> *
* Mar 10-12, 2009 *
Santa Clara Convention Center
Santa Clara, CA
Author Dean Wampler (co-author of *Programming Scala*
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596157746/index.html>) is teaching a
tutorial on "The Seductions of Scala" and a class on "Better Ruby
through Functional Programming" at SD West 2009. The tutorial is March
10th and the class is March 12th.

* Nancy Duarte Presenting at the Forum for Women Entrepreneurs &
Executives
<http://www.fwe.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=Calendar.eventDetail&eventID=144>
*
* Mar 11, 2009 *
Menlo Park, CA
Nancy Duarte <http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596522346/index.html> Nancy
Duarte (*slide:ology*
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596522346/index.html>) will be
presenting at the Forum for Women Entrepreneurs & Executives (FWE&E).
You'll gain insights into story structures and the power that a well
developed and delivered presentation can have.

* QCon London 2009 <http://qconlondon.com/> *
* Mar 11-13, 2009 *
The Queen Elizabeth II Conference Centre
London, UK
The third annual London enterprise software development conference
designed for team leads, architects and project management is back!
There is no other event in the UK with similar opportunities for
learning, networking, and tracking innovation occurring in the Java,
.NET, Ruby, SOA, Agile, and architecture communities. Madness and fun!

* Lesa Snider King at Geek Girl Camp <http://www.geekgirlcamp.com> *
* Mar 12, 2009 *
Lombardo's
Randolph, MA
Author Lesa Snider King (*Photoshop CS4: The Missing Manual*
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596522964>) presents her digital
photography and Photoshop Elements workshop "How to Shoot & Edit Like a
Pro". She's also teaching "Graphic Secrets for Presenters" which focuses
on how to give better presentations by telling your story through
pictures, and how to use Photoshop or Elements to turn the imagery you
have into the imagery you need.

* Ken Lunde at Worldware Conference <http://www.worldwareconference.com/> *
* Mar 17-19, 2009 *
Hilton Santa Clara
Santa Clara, CA
Author Ken Lunde (*CJKV Information Processing*
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596514471/index.html>) presents "GB
18030 ??? Regional Challenges in Internationalizing Software."

* Wendy Chisholm and Matt May at SXSW
<http://sxsw.com/interactive/talks/schedule?action=show&id=IAP0901357> *
* Mar 17, 2009 *
Room Day Stage, Austin Convention Center
Austin, TX
Authors Wendy Chisholm and Matt May read from and discuss *Universal
Design for Web Applications*
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596518738/index.html>.

* Nancy Duarte Speaks at presentation//reboot
<http://www.presentationreboot.com/> *
* Mar 17-19, 2009 *
Duarte Design, 161 E. Evelyn Ave.
Mountain View, CA
Nancy Duarte (*slide:ology*) and Garr Reynolds host a six-hour seminar
on presentations. This seminar will transform you into a creative
thinker and change the way you prepare, design, and deliver your next
presentation. Choose from three different days, and register now--space
is limited.

* Bill Scott at Mix09 <http://2009.visitmix.com/> *
* Mar 18-20, 2009 *
The Venetian
Las Vegas, NV, USA
Author Bill Scott (*Designing Web Interfaces: Principles and Patterns
for Rich Interaction
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596516253/index.html>*) will be
presenting "Interactive Prototyping with DHTML."

* Nancy Duarte Honored at Silicon Valley's 2009 Women of Influence
Awards <http://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/event/5433> *
* Mar 18, 2009 *
The Fairmont Hotel
San Jose, CA
Silicon Valley/San Jose Business Journal and El Camino Hospital will
recognize 100 outstanding women who exercise power and influence within
business, government, or nonprofits in Silicon Valley, and serve as role
models for future generations of leaders. Among the honorees is Nancy
Duarte, author of *slide:ology
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596522346/index.html>*. Registration is
mandatory.

* Stephen Johnson Gives a Class on Hands-on Digital Black and White
Printing <http://www.sjphoto.com/print_wkspHO_frameset.html> *
* Mar 19-22, 2009 *
Stephen Johnson Studios & Gallery
Pacifica, CA
Join Stephen Johnson (*Stephen Johnson on Digital Photography*
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/stephenjohnson>) in his studio for four
days of hands-on printing instruction.

* Dux Raymond Sy presents "7 Ways to Leverage SharePoint for Project
Management Success" <http://www.sharepointconference.org> *
* Mar 23, 2009 *
Sheraton Inner Harbor
Baltimore, MD, USA
SharePoint for PM <http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596520144/index.html>
Dux Raymond Sy (*SharePoint for Project Management
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596520144/index.html>*) will present "7
Ways to Leverage SharePoint for Project Management Success" at the
SharePoint Conference.ORG. Acquire the practical knowledge of how
SharePoint can address common project management challenges such as
Inefficient communication among stakeholders, poor document management
practices, and undefined project collaboration standards that can
compromise project success.

* Lesa Snider King at Photoshop World Boston
<http://www.photoshopworld.com/bonus.html> *
* Mar 25, 2009 *
Hynes Convention Center
Boston, MA
Lesa Snider King (*Photoshop CS4: The Missing Manual*
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596522964>) presents "Graphic
Secrets: Combining Photos & Vectors." Learn how to easily combine
illustrations with photography in this super creative session. Glean the
secret to importing vectors into your document so you can experiment
with them as backgrounds, artful embellishments, ornamental photo
frames, and more -- all without losing an ounce of quality!

* Dux Raymond Sy presents: "Empowering Your Organization with
SharePoint: An Executive Seminar" <http://go.meetdux.com/4czq> *
* Mar 30, 2009 *
Learning Tree Alexandria Education Center
Alexandria, VA
Over the course of one day, SharePoint expert Dux Raymond Sy
(*SharePoint for Project Management*
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596520144/index.html>) will detail the
benefits SharePoint can deliver to your organization through a
combination of lecture, presentations and demonstrations. This
comprehensive, non-technical overview is designed to help you assess how
SharePoint Technologies can have a positive effect on your company???s
productivity and competitiveness.

* "Using Drupal" Authors Present Lullabot Drupal Workshops
<http://www.lullabot.com/training> *
* Mar 30-Apr 3, 2009 *
Biltmore Hotel
Providence, RI
Authors James Walker, Jeff Robbins, Angie Byron, and Nate Haug (*Using
Drupal* <http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596515805/index.html>) will be
leading a week of Drupal workshops in Providence, RI.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Conference News



Emerging Technology Conference <http://conferences.oreilly.com/etech/>
Last Chance--Emerging Technology Conference 2009
<http://en.oreilly.com/et2009/public/register?CMP=ILC-conf_etech09&ATT=UG>
March 9-12, 2009 in San Jose, CA

Use code "et09usrg" when you register, and receive an additional 30% off
the registration price.

O'Reilly Found, The Search Acquisition and Architecture Conference
<http://conferences.oreilly.com/found> O'Reilly Found, The Search
Acquisition and Architecture Conference
<https://en.oreilly.com/rails2009/public/register>
June 9-11, 2009 in Burlingame, CA

Use code "fo09usrg" when you register, and receive 15% off the
registration price. Early registration ends on April 21.

Velocity 2009 <http://conferences.oreilly.com/velocity> Velocity 2009
<https://en.oreilly.com/velocity2009/public/register>
June 22-24, 2009 in San Jose, CA

Use code "vel09usrg" when you register, and receive 15% off the
registration price. Early registration ends on May 3.

RailsConf 2009 <http://www.railsconf.com> RailsConf 2009
<https://en.oreilly.com/rails2009/public/register>
May 4-7, 2009 in Las Vegas, NV
Co-presented by O'Reilly Media and Ruby Central


Use code "rc09usrg" when you register, and receive 10% off the
registration price. Early registration ends on March 16.

Where 2.0 Conference <http://conferences.oreilly.com/where> Where 2.0
2009
<https://en.oreilly.com/where2009/public/register?CMP=EMC-conf_where09_in&att=UG1>
May 19-21, 2009 in San Jose, CA

Use code "whr09usrg" when you register, and receive 15% off the
registration price. Early registration ends on March 31.

MySQL Conference & Expo <http://www.mysqlconf.com/> MySQL Conference &
Expo
<https://en.oreilly.com/mysql2009/public/register/?ATT=EM6&CMP=EMC-conf_my09_UG1>
April 20-23, 2009 in Santa Clara, CA
Co-presented by O'Reilly Media and MySQL

Use code "mys09usrg" when you register, and receive 15% off the
registration price. Early Registration Ends February 16.

Web 2.0 Expo San Francisco <http://www.web2expo.com/sf> Web 2.0 Expo San
Francisco <https://en.oreilly.com/webexsf2009/public/register>
March 31-April 3, 2009 in San Francisco, CA
Co-presented by O'Reilly Media and TechWeb

Use code "websf09ugp" when you register, and receive 15% off the
registration price. Or use code "websf09ug" and recieve $100 off or a
free expo hall pass.

OSCON 2009 <http://conferences.oreilly.com/oscon/> OSCON 2009
<http://conferences.oreilly.com/oscon>
July 20-24, 2009 in San Jose, CA

If you have ideas for speakers and topics please send them to:
oscon-idea at oreilly.com

Ignite Logo <http://ignite.oreilly.com/> Ignite <http://ignite.oreilly.com/>
If you had five minutes on stage what would you say? What if you only
got 20 slides and they rotated automatically after 15 seconds? Around
the world geeks have been putting together Ignite nights to show their
answers.
Create your own Ignite in your area.
<http://ignite.oreilly.com/faq/how-to.html>

Upcoming Ignite events:

    * Ignite Reno 1
      <http://ignite.oreilly.com/2009/02/ignite-reno-1.htmll>, March 7,
      148 West St. Reno, NV
    * Ignite Denver 2
      <http://ignite.oreilly.com/2009/01/howdy-folks.html>, March 11,
      Forest Room 5 , Denver, CO
    * Announcing Ignite Spatial 2
      <http://ignite.oreilly.com/2009/02/announcing-ignite-spatial-2.html>,
      March 11, 52 King St Sydney New South Wales, Australia
    * Ignite Boise
      <http://ignite.oreilly.com/2009/01/ignite-phoenix-3---feb-25th.html>,
      March 19, Egyptian Theater, 700 W. Main Street, Boise, ID
    * Ignite Salt Lake 2
      <http://ignite.oreilly.com/2009/01/ignite-salt-lake-2.html>, March
      26, 677 South 200 West, Orlando, FL

For more events, go to http://ignite.oreilly.com/
------------------------------------------------------------------------

O'Reilly School of Technology

OST *O'Reilly School of Technology Courses: UG Members Receive a 30%
Discount* <http://www.oreillyschool.com/?CMP=BAC-ostug>
O'Reilly School of Technology has opened its virtual doors with
educational offerings and certification for IT students looking to
further their careers or to launch one. As an O'Reilly User Group
member, you save on all the courses in the following University of
Illinois Certificate Series:

    * Java Programming
    * PHP/SQL Programming
    * Linux/Unix System Administration
    * Web Programming
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    * .NET Programming
    * Client-Side Web Programming featuring AJAX

In today's economy, it's crucial to stay competitive in Information
Technology. With the O'Reilly School of Technology, you can do just
that--at your own pace, with 1-to-1 instructor support, real tools, and
free books.


*New Java Programming Course*
<http://www.oreillyschool.com/courses/java1/?CMP=BAC-ostug> Java
Programming 1: Introduction to Java and the Eclipse Development
Environment! We are especially excited about this course, because it is
the first course to utilize Ellipse, our brand-new Learning Sandbox
built on the Eclipse open-source IDE. This is the first course in our
upcoming Java Programming Certificate Series. The Java Programming 2 and
3 courses will be released very soon as they are in their final editing
phases.

To redeem, use Promotion Code "ORALL1" good for a 30% discount, in Step
#2 of the enrollment process. Each course comes with a free O'Reilly
book and a 7-day money-back guarantee. Register online
<http://www.oreillyschool.com/?CMP=BAC-ostug>. (This discount may not be
combinable with other offers.)
------------------------------------------------------------------------

News from O'Reilly & Beyond

UG News

*Listen to the O'Reilly Week in Review*
<http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=299539249>
Get some O'Reilly on your iPod! Every week, we take the wisdom of
O'Reilly, and squeeze it down into a bite-sized podcast you can listen
to on the go. The O'Reilly Week in Review features excerpts from
interviews, tips from authors, roundtable discussions from the editors,
and a quiz that can score you a free O'Reilly book. Subscribe via iTunes
or search for "week in review" on the O'Reilly web site to listen from
your browser.

Subversion <http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596510336/index.html> *Can
Subversion help teams work better? Tell us and you could win one of 10
great prize packages!* <http://svnpack.com/>
Are you on a team that works with shared documents? If so, you know what
a headache version control can be. The good news is that there is a
remedy: Subversion, a simple yet powerful open-source document
management tool that streamlines the versioning process. O'Reilly,
Beanstalk, Versions, and CollabNet--four companies who make working with
Subversion even easier--want to hear your best stories about how
Subversion has or could help your team. Tell us your story by March 6,
2009 and enter to win one of 10 Prize Packages.

*State of the Computer Book Market 2008*
<http://radar.oreilly.com/2009/02/state-of-the-computer-book-mar-17.html>
As described in Computer Book Sales as a Technology Trend Indicator, and
our other posts on the State of the Computer Book Market we have an
updated series of posts that show the whole market's final 2008 numbers.

    * Part 2: The Technologies

<http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2008/02/state-of-the-computer-book-mar-20.html>
    * Part 3: The Publishers

<http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2008/03/state-of-the-computer-book-mar-21.html>
    * Part 4:The Languages

<http://radar.oreilly.com/2009/02/state-of-the-computer-book-mar-22.html>
    * Part 5: eBooks and Summary

<http://radar.oreilly.com/2009/02/state-of-the-computer-book-mar-24.html>

*Why Kindle Should Be An Open Book*
<http://www.forbes.com/2009/02/22/kindle-oreilly-ebooks-technology-breakthroughs_oreilly.html>
In O'Reilly Insights on Forbes.com, Tim O'Reilly boldly predicts that
"unless Amazon embraces open ebook standards like epub, which allow
readers to read books on a variety of devices, the Kindle will be gone
within two or three years." In the new column, O'Reilly explains why
he's thrown his support behind "epub and other open ebook standards,
providing our books as "ebook bundles" that give the reader the choice
of pdf (still the only viable choice for many highly formatted books
like our Head First series of "brain friendly" tutorials that even HTML
can't handle), epub, and mobi, an HTML-based predecessor to the Kindle
format that lacks digital rights management but that can be imported
into the Kindle."

*Deke McClelland's Martini Hour Visualization Contest Details*
<http://www.deke.com/content/martini-hour-visualization-contest-details>
The basic idea is simple; create a graphic that can be used to promote
Martini Hour that features some Deke, some Colleen, and some Martini or
other refreshing beverage. You can use the raw materials we have posted
in the dekeOnline Flickr group. Or you can use anything you like.
(Remember, Deke likes costumes and weapons.)

Twitter

*Twitter Drives Traffic, Sales: A Case Study*
<http://radar.oreilly.com/2009/02/twitter-drives-traffic-sales-a.html>
Back in December, Dell reported that offers from its Dell Outlet Twitter
account had led to more than $1 million in revenue. A small percentage
for a company that books $16B in revenue annually--but a nice number
nonetheless, particularly in a dreary economy. Question is: are they the
only ones?

*Call For Makers: Maker Faire Bay Area 2009*
<http://makerfaire.com/bayarea/2009/callformakers/>
We are now accepting entries for the Maker Faire Bay Area, May 30 and 31
at the San Mateo County Expo Center. This year's focus is Re-Make
America, inspired by President Obama's call for all of us to participate
in remaking America. We're looking to showcase "the risk-takers, the
doers, the makers of things."

*Sneak Peek at iWork '09 & Share Your Tips Contest*
<http://fyi.oreilly.com/2009/02/sneak-peek-at-iwork-09-the-mis.html>
Currently available as a Rough Cut, the new book will teach you
everything you need to know about Apple's incredible productivity
programs, including the Pages word-processor, the Numbers spreadsheet,
and the Keynote presentation program that Al Gore and Steve Jobs made
famous. Read an excerpt from Josh Clark's work in progress, (adapted for
the web). Then, take a minute to share an iWork '09 tip and you could
win free access to iWork '09: The Missing Manual: Rough Cuts Version.

*What You'll Find in "Ruby Best Practices"*
<http://blog.majesticseacreature.com/archives/2009.02/whats_in_rbp.html>
When Ruby Best Practices first entered roughcuts, Gregory Brown passed
on a couple copies to some reviewers to see what they thought, and Peter
Cooper summed things up pretty accurately.
*And here's a sample chapter "Mastering the Dynamic Toolkit" in PDF.*
<http://bit.ly/cNL3J>

*Ignite Launches Weekly Video Series Highlighting the Best of
GeekCulture*
<http://fyi.oreilly.com/2009/02/ignite-launches-weekly-video-s.html>
Ignite captures the best of geek culture in a series of five-minute
speed presentations on topics ranging from "The Best Way to Buy a Car"
to "Hacking Chocolate" to "Transhuman Technology Trends." Imagine that
you're on stage in front of an audience of hundreds of people, doing a
five-minute presentation using a slide deck that auto-forwards every 15
seconds, whether you're ready or not. What would you do? What would you
say? Could you stand the pressure? Every week, find out how some of the
smartest minds on the planet dealt with this situation as your host,
Brady Forrest, highlights a different talk from Ignites around the world.

Safari <http://www.safaribooksonline.com/>

*Safari Books Online Optimizes for Top Mobile Devices*
<http://www.safaribooksonline.com/Corporate/NewsEvents/pressReleaseDetail.php?page=2009_02_23>
Safari Books Online Ubiquitous for Users On-the-Go Safari Books Online
is now fully optimized to support the top mobile devices in the United
States. The new website, m.safaribooksonline.com, optimizes Safari Books
Online's content and reading experience for the majority of mobile
phones (such as Nokia, BlackBerry, iPhone, and Windows Mobile), making
it possible for users to read while on-the-go.

*ETech Preview: Creating Biological Legos*
<http://radar.oreilly.com/2009/02/etech-preview-creating-biologi.html>
If you've gotten tired of hacking firewalls or cloud computing, maybe
it's time to try your hand with DNA. That's what Reshma Shetty is doing
with her Doctorate in Biological Engineering from MIT. Apart from her
crowning achievement of getting bacteria to smell like mint and bananas,
she's also active in the developing field of synthetic biology and has
recently helped found a company called Gingko BioWorks which is
developing enabling technologies to allow for rapid prototyping of
biological systems.

*ETech Preview: Inside Factory China, An Interview with Andrew Huang*
<http://radar.oreilly.com/2009/02/etech-preview-inside-factory-c.html>
China has become the production workhorse of the consumer electronics
industry. Almost anything you pick up at a Best Buy first breathed life
across the Pacific Ocean. But what is it like to shepherd a product
through the design and production process? Andrew "bunnie" Huang has
done just that with the Chumby, a new internet appliance.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Until next time?
Marsee Henon <http://www.oreillynet.com/fyi/blog/marsee_henon/>
Spreading the knowledge of innovators.
<http://www.oreilly.com/>O'Reilly.com <http://www.oreilly.com>
You are receiving this email because you are a User Group contact with
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http://ug.oreilly.com/   http://ug.oreilly.com/creativemedia/


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Fri Mar  6 11:59:26 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 11:59:26 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] IT Legal case,
 and excellant photo of 1970's hard disk technology
In-Reply-To: <20090306054742.GE6073@squish.home.loc>
References: <49B03040.3080004@gmail.com> <49B0354A.6040604@wowway.com>
	<20090306054742.GE6073@squish.home.loc>
Message-ID: <49B1566E.2070604@gmail.com>

Paul wrote:
> Garry Stahl <tesral at wowway.com>, on Thu Mar 05, 2009 [03:25:46 PM] said:
>> Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>>> <http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/03/court-self-incrimination-privilege-stops-with-passwords.ars>
>>>   
>> Back in 97 I bought a pair of external SCSI drive boxes that had Fujitsu
>> 1 gig drives in them,  5.25" full bay jobs.  Some time later one
>> failed.  I cracked it open and that is what it looked like.  The thing
>> had 12 platters.  The other one still works.
>>
> 
> 	Hi;
> 
> 	Actually; that looks like a drive with a removable disc pack.
> You can see the heads have been retracted and the little rollers
> compressed the opposing heads to draw away from the platters. The
> ones I have seen like this were typically about the size of a washing
> machine and the discs were 14" platters. Commonly found in dinosaur
> pens.
> 

Precisely.
And it was pretty nasty when they suffered a head crash --
big lathe-like mark scraping away all of the magnetic media
(rust brown because..well, it was powdered rust).


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Sun Mar  8 16:45:20 2009
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 15:45:20 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Johnny Lee: Wii Remote hacks
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380902051316u4fdb5ffek170420c504029282@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380902051316u4fdb5ffek170420c504029282@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4145b6790903081345n6aac77eewd99b10a04e9790d6@mail.gmail.com>

I finally had a chance to play around with creating a wiiboard.  Here
are my notes for doing this under Ubuntu Intrepid Ibex 8.10:

http://groups.google.com/group/cwelug/msg/fdc31300fd432f7d

Regards,
- Robert

On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 4:16 PM, Michael Rudas <audiotech50 at gmail.com> wrote:
> This was a presentation from last year's TED conference that I missed
> prior to a posting to the SEMCO mailing list. ?Fascinating!
> <http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/johnny_lee_demos_wii_remote_hacks.html>


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Mon Mar  9 19:02:41 2009
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 19:02:41 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Parted Magic
Message-ID: <1236639761.26042.118.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

Hello Everyone,
	This probably comes as no surprise to everyone, but I was happily
surprised to see a utility included in the latest version of Parted
Magic that queries and lists all the hardware on the computer it's
running on. Since it runs completely from ram, you can use the cd drive
to burn whatever packages/drivers you may have downloaded. Copy and
paste from that utility to a web browser is so much easier than writing
everything down and using a different computer to do the downloading.

Best Regards,
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
Peter The Plumber



From peter at petertheplumber.net  Mon Mar  9 22:55:04 2009
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 22:55:04 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Parted Magic
In-Reply-To: <1236639761.26042.118.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
References: <1236639761.26042.118.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <1236653704.26042.143.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

On Mon, 2009-03-09 at 19:02 -0400, Peter Bart wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
> 	This probably comes as no surprise to everyone, but I was happily
> surprised to see a utility included in the latest version of Parted
> Magic that queries and lists all the hardware on the computer it's
> running on. Since it runs completely from ram, you can use the cd drive
> to burn whatever packages/drivers you may have downloaded. Copy and
> paste from that utility to a web browser is so much easier than writing
> everything down and using a different computer to do the downloading.

	Now, if I could just find something like that to connect to the water
meter that would tell me the brand and model of every connected faucet,
fixture and appurtenance in that house. 
<sigh>
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
Peter The Plumber



From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Mon Mar  9 23:13:00 2009
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Robert Meier)
Date: Mon,  9 Mar 2009 23:13:00 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] [Tech Support] OpenOffice-3.0.1 no dictionary
Message-ID: <20090310031300.79E8C20AAD0@starfox.local>

POEMs,

I just upgraded at work to openOffice-3.0.1 .
It seems to come up faster,
but I find that every word is reported as "not in dictorary".

No errors were reported during installation.
I first installed from rpm -i.
Noting the errant spellchecking, I then used rpm -e to remove the files
and tried again using .../setup.  (Same experience both times).

My dictionary selections
[Tools/options/Languages/Writing Aids/Available/Edit/...]
are English(US).

I have verified that
/opt/openoffice.org3/share/xtension/install/dict-en.oxt
is installed, looks correct (i.e. unzip -t reports an
apparently appropriate jar file), and is readable.

strace during startup indicates that no -dict- file is being openned.

openOffice-2.3(?) had a working dictionary and was removed with -e
before initial installation.



Anybody seen this before?
Anybody know the cause?
Anybody know the cure?
What am I missing?



TIA,
--
Bob

  "I used to think correlation implied causation.
   Then I took a class on statistics.  Now I don't.
   (Sounds like the class helped.)  Well, maybe."
    -- xkcd (http://www.xkcd.com/552/)


From z_mikowski at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 10 03:39:27 2009
From: z_mikowski at yahoo.com (Michael S. Mikowski)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 00:39:27 -0700
Subject: [mdlug] [Tech Support] OpenOffice-3.0.1 no dictionary
In-Reply-To: <20090310031300.79E8C20AAD0@starfox.local>
References: <20090310031300.79E8C20AAD0@starfox.local>
Message-ID: <200903100039.28011.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>

Hi Dr. Meier:

Seen Before: 
Yes, in OO 2.4.

Cause: 
My documents were not recognized as English (USA), but instead English 
(Zimbabwe).  I don't know how it happened, it just did.

Cure: 
I set the correct default language for documents:
Tools -> Options -> Language Settings -> Languages
Under the "Default Languages for documents", for the "Western" language I 
selected English (USA).  That language was the only option that had a little 
'ABC' icon next to the selection to signify a valid installed dictionary.

What you Are Missing:  
Possibly nothing I have written :)  All this may have changed in 3.0.1.

Good luck!

Sincerely,

Mike



On Monday 09 March 2009 20:13:00 Robert Meier wrote:
> POEMs,
>
> I just upgraded at work to openOffice-3.0.1 .
> It seems to come up faster,
> but I find that every word is reported as "not in dictorary".
>
> No errors were reported during installation.
> I first installed from rpm -i.
> Noting the errant spellchecking, I then used rpm -e to remove the files
> and tried again using .../setup.  (Same experience both times).
>
> My dictionary selections
> [Tools/options/Languages/Writing Aids/Available/Edit/...]
> are English(US).
>
> I have verified that
> /opt/openoffice.org3/share/xtension/install/dict-en.oxt
> is installed, looks correct (i.e. unzip -t reports an
> apparently appropriate jar file), and is readable.
>
> strace during startup indicates that no -dict- file is being openned.
>
> openOffice-2.3(?) had a working dictionary and was removed with -e
> before initial installation.
>
>
>
> Anybody seen this before?
> Anybody know the cause?
> Anybody know the cure?
> What am I missing?
>
>
>
> TIA,
> --
> Bob
>
>   "I used to think correlation implied causation.
>    Then I took a class on statistics.  Now I don't.
>    (Sounds like the class helped.)  Well, maybe."
>     -- xkcd (http://www.xkcd.com/552/)
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From driveray at ameritech.net  Tue Mar 10 10:53:46 2009
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 10:53:46 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] test
Message-ID: <49B67EFA.6090108@ameritech.net>

Is this thing still on?


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 10 11:21:50 2009
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 08:21:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] test
References: <49B67EFA.6090108@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <227220.9696.qm@web37907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Yes. 




________________________________
From: Raymond McLaughlin <driveray at ameritech.net>
To: "mdlug at mdlug.org" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:53:46 AM
Subject: [mdlug] test

Is this thing still on?
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      

From mbutler at judge.com  Tue Mar 10 12:16:40 2009
From: mbutler at judge.com (Margie J. Butler)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 12:16:40 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT Linux Admin. Opening in Metro Detroit- Direct Hire
Message-ID: <CBF62E34AEE1D744AB62F9E58E3BC266E54075@apollo.judge.com>

My client has a full time permanent position available for a Linux Admin with 3+ years experience. They are seeking someone with the skills listed below.  

 

Experience installing, administering, configuring and supporting Red Hat Enterprise Linux 4.6 & 5

Prior experience supporting a clustered Linux environment preferred

Assist in supporting and monitoring Oracle servers and JBoss Application Server Monitor database backups (this will not be the primary focus but any knowledge and or experience is helpful)

Perform routine test restores
Provide after hours support, as needed, for critical systems

Optimize SQL queries 

The ability to manage multiple assignments in a constantly changing environment
Create and maintain related system and process documentation?
Excellent verbal and written communications skills

 

Please contact me for salary and compensation information.

 

 

 

 

Margie Butler

Technical Recruiter 

 

2550 South Telegraph Road, Suite 100

Bloomfield Hills, MI 48302 

Direct:  (248) 409-1859

Phone: (248) 253-9500 Ext.1239 

Toll Free: 800-360-4474 x 1239

Fax: (248)  253-7100

www.judge.com <http://www.judge.com/> 

 

 

The Judge Group

Consulting * Staffing * Training

 Results through the Power of Experience

 

4Over 30 offices nationwide    4Over 2,500 professionals    4Over 38 years of experience                                     

 


From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Tue Mar 10 14:31:00 2009
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Robert Meier)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 14:31:00 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] [Solution] OpenOffice-3.0.1 no dictionary [Was: Re: [Tech
	Support] OpenOffice-3.0.1 no dictionary]
In-Reply-To: <20090310031300.79E8C20AAD0@starfox.local> (message from Robert
	Meier on Mon, 9 Mar 2009 23:13:00 -0400 (EDT))
References: <20090310031300.79E8C20AAD0@starfox.local>
Message-ID: <20090310183100.764DD20AAD1@starfox.local>

Michael,

Thank you for your help.

[For the record]

Problem:
> I just upgraded at work to openOffice-3.0.1 .
> It seems to come up faster,
> but I find that every word is reported as "not in dictorary".

Cause:
<UNCERTAIN>
An unidentified component of personal or system state,
not reflected in the menus nor owned by any openoffice or ooo rpm,
is unhandled during the upgrade to openOffice-3.0.1 .
</UNCERTAIN>

Workaround:
1. Remove all prior versions of openOffice.
   bash# rpm -e $(rpm -qa | grep ooo) $(rpm -qa | grep openoffice)
2. (Re)move all links to prior versions openOffice
   bash# find / -type l -print | while read l; do
           if ls -l "$l" grep /opt/openoffice; then
             rm "$l"
           fi
         done
3. (Re)move all openoffice directories
   bash# rm -rf /opt/openoffice*
4. (Re)move all personal openoffice configurations.
   bash> rm -rf ~/.openoffice*
5. Reinstall openoffice-3.0.1
   bash# mkdir -p /opt/openoffice/original
   bash# # Download openoffice-3.0.1*.tar.gz into /opt/openoffice/original
   bash# cd /opt/openoffice
   bash# tar -zxvf original/openoffice-3.0.1*.tar.gz
   bash# ./setup


Symptoms:   
> I set the correct default language for documents:
> Tools -> Options -> Language Settings -> Languages
> Under the "Default Languages for documents", for the "Western" language I 
> selected English (USA).  That language was the only option that had a little 
> 'ABC' icon next to the selection to signify a valid installed dictionary.

No effect.

> No errors were reported during installation.
> I first installed from rpm -i.
> Noting the errant spellchecking, I then used rpm -e to remove the files
> and tried again using .../setup.  (Same experience both times).
>
> My dictionary selections
> [Tools/options/Languages/Writing Aids/Available/Edit/...]
> are English(US).
>
> I have verified that
> /opt/openoffice.org3/share/xtension/install/dict-en.oxt
> is installed, looks correct (i.e. unzip -t reports an
> apparently appropriate jar file), and is readable.
>
> strace during startup indicates that no -dict- file is being openned.
>
> openOffice-2.3(?) had a working dictionary and was removed with -e
> before initial installation.


Reporting,
-- 
Bob

  "'Men have forgotten this truth,' said the fox.
   'But you must not forget it.
   You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed.'"
     -- Antoine de Saint-Exupery



From otakurider at gmail.com  Tue Mar 10 15:35:45 2009
From: otakurider at gmail.com (Gmail-otakurider)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 15:35:45 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] test
In-Reply-To: <49B67EFA.6090108@ameritech.net>
References: <49B67EFA.6090108@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <49B6C111.8020407@gmail.com>

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Is this thing still on?
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>   
yep got it


From unforgiven24 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 10 17:33:34 2009
From: unforgiven24 at gmail.com (Mike Ward)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 17:33:34 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] test
In-Reply-To: <49B6C111.8020407@gmail.com>
References: <49B67EFA.6090108@ameritech.net> <49B6C111.8020407@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5aa434200903101433t19dbb24ehc6b2d2ed72a2442a@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 3:35 PM, Gmail-otakurider <otakurider at gmail.com>wrote:

> Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> > Is this thing still on?
> > _______________________________________________
> > mdlug mailing list
> > mdlug at mdlug.org
> > http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> >
> >
> yep got it
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>

I didn't.


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 10 23:17:36 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 23:17:36 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] test
In-Reply-To: <49B67EFA.6090108@ameritech.net>
References: <49B67EFA.6090108@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <49B72D50.3080209@gmail.com>

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Is this thing still on?

Yeah, but it's got kind of a lot of static and a bit of feedback.


From MCMay at RGIS.com  Thu Mar 12 15:07:47 2009
From: MCMay at RGIS.com (May, Mat)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:07:47 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Questions about samba
In-Reply-To: <20090227190949.6aa5e297@osage.osagesoftware.com>
Message-ID: <E800CE2A661DB04E9CB6F0B7D91DF569010922F1@HQEX01.na.ad.rgis.com>

Hopefully you guys can help me out.  I have a file system on a Red Hat
Enterprise Linux system that I need to copy over to a Windows 2003
server.  I have created a samba share of the directory on the Linux
server and can access it from the Windows server, but because of some of
the file permission on the Linux side I am getting an "access denied"
error.

The permissions on the files in question are -rw------.  Does anyone
know of a switch or anything that I can do from the Windows side to give
me access to copy "root only" file?

Thanks for any help you can give.

Mathew May

System Support

Field Support Center

(248)608-8244

(248)656-6627 FAX

mcmay at rgis.com

www.rgisinv.com

 
NOTE: The information in this email may be confidential and legally
privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not
read, use or disseminate the information; please advise the sender
immediately by reply email and delete this message and any
attachments without retaining a copy. Although this email and any
attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect
that may affect any computer system into which it is received and
opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it
is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by RGIS, LLC for
any loss or damage arising in any way from its use.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Mar 12 16:00:43 2009
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:00:43 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Questions about samba
In-Reply-To: <E800CE2A661DB04E9CB6F0B7D91DF569010922F1@HQEX01.na.ad.rgis.com>
References: <20090227190949.6aa5e297@osage.osagesoftware.com>
	<E800CE2A661DB04E9CB6F0B7D91DF569010922F1@HQEX01.na.ad.rgis.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90903121300r3e54eba0nabbebe34b071efe7@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 3:07 PM, May, Mat <MCMay at rgis.com> wrote:
> Hopefully you guys can help me out. ?I have a file system on a Red Hat
> Enterprise Linux system that I need to copy over to a Windows 2003
> server. ?I have created a samba share of the directory on the Linux
> server and can access it from the Windows server, but because of some of
> the file permission on the Linux side I am getting an "access denied"
> error.
>
> The permissions on the files in question are -rw------. ?Does anyone
> know of a switch or anything that I can do from the Windows side to give
> me access to copy "root only" file?
>

Unless both systems are using a directory service like LDAP to
associate user accounts between them you have to give read permission
to others (-rw----r-) and probably set "map to guest = bad user" in
the smb.conf file.


From MCMay at RGIS.com  Thu Mar 12 16:34:31 2009
From: MCMay at RGIS.com (May, Mat)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:34:31 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Questions about samba
In-Reply-To: <E800CE2A661DB04E9CB6F0B7D91DF569010922F1@HQEX01.na.ad.rgis.com>
Message-ID: <E800CE2A661DB04E9CB6F0B7D91DF569010922F2@HQEX01.na.ad.rgis.com>

Before anyone else scratches their head over this one, or thinks to
themselves "that's a basic config," I got it all sorted out.

I added my Windows login name to the /etc/samba/smbusers file in the
"root" user line, than ran the "snmpasswd -a root" command, entered my
new password, restarted the smb service (for good measure) and was able
to copy all of my needed files to the Window server.

Mathew May

System Support

Field Support Center

(248)608-8244

(248)656-6627 FAX

mcmay at rgis.com

www.rgisinv.com

 

 


-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of May, Mat
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 3:08 PM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: [mdlug] Questions about samba

Hopefully you guys can help me out.  I have a file system on a Red Hat
Enterprise Linux system that I need to copy over to a Windows 2003
server.  I have created a samba share of the directory on the Linux
server and can access it from the Windows server, but because of some of
the file permission on the Linux side I am getting an "access denied"
error.

The permissions on the files in question are -rw------.  Does anyone
know of a switch or anything that I can do from the Windows side to give
me access to copy "root only" file?

Thanks for any help you can give.

Mathew May

System Support

Field Support Center

(248)608-8244

(248)656-6627 FAX

mcmay at rgis.com

www.rgisinv.com

 
NOTE: The information in this email may be confidential and legally
privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not
read, use or disseminate the information; please advise the sender
immediately by reply email and delete this message and any
attachments without retaining a copy. Although this email and any
attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect
that may affect any computer system into which it is received and
opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it
is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by RGIS, LLC for
any loss or damage arising in any way from its use.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From driveray at ameritech.net  Fri Mar 13 15:05:28 2009
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:05:28 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] MDLUG meeting tomorrow
Message-ID: <49BAAE78.2010208@ameritech.net>

MDLUGers:
MDLUG meeting tomorrow, same MDLUG time, same MDLUG channel:
<http://mdlug.org/meetings/meetings.html>

MDLUG has meetings, at 12:30 PM, on the second saturday of each month.

MDLUG meetings are at the Gaudior Academy 27100 Avondale, Inkster MI
48141. This is about a block east of Inkster Road, half a mile south of
Cherry Hill (gps://wgs-84/42N18.302/083W18.465).

On the business agenda will be some discussion of the MDLUG Penguicon
Party room.

If a technical topic has been selected I am unaware of it and it hasn't
been entered in the calender. So it looks like it'll be a "Linux Free
style".

Art Dries has expressed some interest in discussing filesystem security
or restoring/building a system from ground up. But he has no formal
presentation. Never the less this might serve as a starting point of
discussion.

Hope to see you all there.
Raymond McLaughlin
President MDLUG


From jjn at nuge.com  Sat Mar 14 14:39:25 2009
From: jjn at nuge.com (Jay Nugent)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 13:39:25 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] 15 years ago today
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0903141336580.29536-100000@home.nuge.com>



From: Linus Torvalds <Linus.Torvalds at helsinki.fi>
Newsgroups: 
comp.os.linux.announce,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Linux 1.0---A better UNIX than Windows NT
Followup-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Date: 14 Mar 1994 12:51:16 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki
Lines: 138
Approved: linux-announce at tc.cornell.edu (Lars Wirzenius)
Message-ID: <2m1mk4$qc9 at hydra.Helsinki.FI>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hydra.helsinki.fi
Summary: Linux 1.0 released
Keywords: Linux Kernel 1.0 Academy Awards
X-Moderator-Added-Keywords: universe, end of


Finally, here it is.  Almost on time (being just two years late is
peanuts in the OS industry), and better than ever:

 Linux kernel release 1.0

This release has no new major features compared to the pl15 kernels, but
contains lots and lots of bugfixes: all the major ones are gone, the
smaller ones are hidden better.  Hopefully there are no major new ones.

The Linux kernel can be found as source on most of the Linux ftp-sites
under the names

 linux-1.0.tar.gz  (full source)
 linux-1.0.patch.pl15.gz  (patch against linux-0.99pl15)
 linux-1.0.patch.alpha.gz (patch from linux-pre-1.0)

it should be available at least at the sites

 ftp.funet.fi:
  pub/OS/Linux/PEOPLE/Linus (now)
 sunsite.unc.ed:
  pub/Linux/Incoming  (now)
  pub/Linux/kernel  (soon)
 tsx-11.mit.edu:
  pub/linux/sources/system (soon)
 ftp.cs.helsinki.fi:
  pub/Software/Linux/Kernel (now)

This release finally moves Linux out of Beta status and is meant as a
base for distributions to build on.  It will neither change Linux'
status as FreeWare under the GPL, nor will it mean the end of
development on Linux.  In fact many new features where held back for
later releases so that 1.0 could become a well tested and hopefully
stable release.

The Linux kernel wouldn't be where it is today without the help of lots
of people: the kernel developers, the people who did user-level programs
making linux useful, and the brave and foolhardy people who risked their
harddisks and sanity to test it all out.  My thanks to you all.
(Editorial note: if you think this sounds too much like the Academy
Awards ceremony, just skip this: it's not getting any better.)

Thanks to people like Aaron Kushner, Danny ter Haar and the authors of
the AnwenderHandbuch (and others) who have helped me with hardware or
monetary donations (and to the Oxford Beer Trolls and others who took
care of the drinkware).  And thanks to Dirk, who helped me write this
announcement despite my lazyness ("hey, it's just another release, who
needs an announcement anyway?").

To make a long and boring story a bit shorter and boring, here is at
least a partial list of people who have been helping make Linux what it
is today.  Thanks to you all,

 Krishna Balasubramanian <balasub at cis.ohio-state.edu>
 Arindam Banerji <axb at cse.nd.edu>
 Peter Bauer <100136.3530 at compuserve.com>
 Fred Baumgarten <dc6iq at insu1.etec.uni-karlsruhe.de>
 Donald Becker <becker at super.org>
 Stephen R. van den Berg <berg at pool.informatik.rwth-aachen.de>
 Hennus Bergman <hennus at sky.nl.mugnet.org>
 Ross Biro <bir7 at leland.Stanford.Edu>
 Bill Bogstad <bogstad at cs.jhu.edu>
 John Boyd <boyd at cis.ohio-state.edu>
 Andries Brouwer <aeb at cwi.nl>
 Remy Card <Remy.Card at masi.ibp.fr>
 Ed Carp <ecarp at netcom.com>
 Raymond Chen <raymondc at microsoft.com>
 Alan Cox <iiitac at pyr.swan.ac.uk>
 Laurence Culhane <loz at holmes.demon.co.uk>
 Wayne Davison <davison at borland.com>
 Thomas Dunbar <tdunbar at vtaix.cc.vt.edu>
 Torsten Duwe <duwe at immd4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
 Drew Eckhardt <drew at cs.Colorado.EDU>
 Bjorn Ekwall <bj0rn at blox.se>
 Doug Evans <dje at cygnus.com>
 Rik Faith <faith at cs.unc.edu>
 Juergen Fischer <fischer at server.et-inf.fho-emden.de>
 Jeremy Fitzhardinge <jeremy at sw.oz.au>
 Ralf Flaxa <rfflaxa at immd4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
 Nigel Gamble <nigel%gamble.uucp at gate.net>
 Philip Gladstone <philipg at onsett.com>
 Bruno Haible <haible at ma2s2.mathematik.uni-karlsruhe.de>
 Andrew Haylett <ajh at gec-mrc.co.uk>
 Dirk Hohndel <hohndel at informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de>
 Nick Holloway <alfie at dcs.warwick.ac.uk>
 Ron Holt <ron at novell.com>
 Rob W. W. Hooft <hooft at EMBL-Heidelberg.DE>
 Michael K. Johnson <johnsonm at sunsite.unc.edu>
 Fred N. van Kempen <waltje at uwalt.nl.mugnet.org>
 Olaf Kirch <okir at monad.swb.de>
 Ian Kluft <ikluft at thunder.sbay.org>
 Rudolf Koenig <rfkoenig at immd4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
 Bas Laarhoven <bas at vimec.nl>
 Warner Losh <imp at boulder.parcplace.com>
 H.J. Lu <hjl at nynexst.com>
 Tuomas J. Lukka <Tuomas.Lukka at Helsinki.FI>
 Kai M"akisara <Kai.Makisara at vtt.fi>
 Pat Mackinlay <pat at it.com.au>
 John A. Martin <jmartin at csc.com>
 Bradley McLean <brad at bradpc.gaylord.com>
 Craig Metz <cmetz at tjhsst.edu>
 William (Bill) Metzenthen <billm at vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>
 Rick Miller <rick at discus.mil.wi.us>
 Corey Minyard <minyard at wf-rch.cirr.com>
 Eberhard Moenkeberg <emoenke at gwdg.de>
 Ian A. Murdock <imurdock at shell.portal.com>
 Johan Myreen <jem at vipunen.hut.fi>
 Stefan Probst <snprobst at immd4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
 Daniel Quinlan <quinlan at bucknell.edu>
 Florian La Roche <rzsfl at rz.uni-sb.de>
 Robert Sanders <gt8134b at prism.gatech.edu>
 Peter De Schrijver <stud11 at cc4.kuleuven.ac.be>
 Darren Senn <sinster at scintilla.santa-clara.ca.us>
 Chris Smith <csmith at convex.com>
 Drew Sullivan <drew at lethe.north.net>
 Tommy Thorn <Tommy.Thorn at daimi.aau.dk>
 Jon Tombs <jon at gtex02.us.es>
 Theodore Ts'o <tytso at mit.edu>
 Simmule Turner <simmy at digex.com>
 Stephen Tweedie <sct at dcs.ed.ac.uk>
 Thomas Uhl <uhl at sun1.rz.fh-heilbronn.de>
 Juergen Weigert <jnweiger at immd4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
 Matt Welsh <mdw at sunsite.unc.edu>
 Marco van Wieringen <mvw at mercury.mcs.nl.mugnet.org>
 Stephen D. Williams <sdw at lig.net>
 G\"unter Windau <gunter at mbfys.kun.nl>
 Lars Wirzenius <lars.wirzenius at helsinki.fi>
 Roger E. Wolff <wolff at dutecai.et.tudelft.nl>
 Frank Xia <qx at math.columbia.edu>
 Eric Youngdale <eric at tantalus.nrl.navy.mil>
 Orest Zborowski <orestz at microsoft.com>

A more detailed list with contact and description information can be
found in the CREDITS file that accompanies the kernel sources.

--
Mail submissions for comp.os.linux.announce to: 
linux-announce at tc.cornell.edu
PLEASE remember Keywords: and a short description of the software. 



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 14 21:03:14 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:03:14 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] WJR Internet Advisor program
Message-ID: <49BC53D2.2090303@gmail.com>

This is one of the "Weekend Experts" programs:
http://www.wjr.com/sectional.asp?id=6911
http://www.wjr.com/Sectional.asp?id=6427

They frequently have MacOS specialist on.

Any mention of Linux is treated as being extremely esoteric
and almost bizarre by the three primary hosts who, while nice
people, seem to have knowledge of nothing other than Windows.

Gary Baker is a high level CIO type, but has most of his
experience in the era of IBM Mainframe + proprietary *ix +
lots of pre-packaged MS "solutions" (polutions?) at the
desktop level.  He seems to be part of the "old guard" who
considers Linux to be an inferior competitor to HP-UX/Solaris/etc.

Ed Rudel is... well, a tinkerer who's experience is strictly
limited to MS products (other than using a Linux-based rescue
CD to repair self-destructed Windows systems).  He has about
10 years with EDS, but it all seems to be limited strictly
to Windows desktop support.

Primary host Foster Braun is a non-technical guy in his 60's,
who basically organizes the calls/keeps the show flowing, and
makes sure that jargon is explained so that listeners understand
technical answers.  The only reason he's aware of Linux is 
because it's mentioned by callers occasionally.  In many ways,
he represents the typical home user, whose knowledge in the
area is slim, and so prods the experts to make sure they
explain things to a satisfactory amount for non-technical listeners.

So, anyways, to get to my point:

Suppose we volunteered to field Linux questions -- and put
in that we are volunteers who can come in on a rotating
basis, and simultaneously, plug MDLUG ;-)


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 14 21:48:51 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:48:51 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] WJR Internet Advisor program
Message-ID: <49BC5E83.3040507@gmail.com>

This is one of the "Weekend Experts" programs:
http://www.wjr.com/sectional.asp?id=6911
http://www.wjr.com/Sectional.asp?id=6427

They frequently have MacOS specialist on.

Any mention of Linux is treated as being extremely esoteric
and almost bizarre by the three primary hosts who, while nice
people, seem to have knowledge of nothing other than Windows.

Gary Baker is a high level CIO type, but has most of his
experience in the era of IBM Mainframe + proprietary *ix +
lots of pre-packaged MS "solutions" (polutions?) at the
desktop level.  He seems to be part of the "old guard" who
considers Linux to be an inferior competitor to HP-UX/Solaris/etc.

Ed Rudel is... well, a tinkerer who's experience is strictly
limited to MS products (other than using a Linux-based rescue
CD to repair self-destructed Windows systems).  He has about
10 years with EDS, but it all seems to be limited strictly
to Windows desktop support.

Primary host Foster Braun is a non-technical guy in his 60's,
who basically organizes the calls/keeps the show flowing, and
makes sure that jargon is explained so that listeners understand
technical answers.  The only reason he's aware of Linux is 
because it's mentioned by callers occasionally.  In many ways,
he represents the typical home user, whose knowledge in the
area is slim, and so prods the experts to make sure they
explain things to a satisfactory amount for non-technical listeners.

So, anyways, to get to my point:

Suppose we volunteered to field Linux questions -- and put
in that we are volunteers who can come in on a rotating
basis, and simultaneously, plug MDLUG ;-)

We could definitely raise awareness of Linux and its very
advantageous performance/price ratio for small/medum sized
business owners.

[Don't expect to be paid -- only a core group of people on
any radio station are paid: the rest are volunteering their
time for one reason or another -- interning to learn the



From driveray at ameritech.net  Sat Mar 14 23:26:04 2009
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 23:26:04 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Laptop Hardware issues
In-Reply-To: <20090228141646.9A7C120AAD0@starfox.local>
References: <49A674B7.5020503@ameritech.net>	<20090226140846.D67C420AAD0@starfox.local>	<b67fb0380902261000l9fabd5dled537385129503ee@mail.gmail.com>	<49A6F3FD.4020406@ameritech.net>
	<20090228141646.9A7C120AAD0@starfox.local>
Message-ID: <49BC754C.5030300@ameritech.net>

One of the subjects that the discussion turned to at today's meeting was
this poor dead laptop. The discussion started
here:<http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/2009-February/006448.html>

Robert Meier wrote:
> Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
>> Michael Rudas wrote:
>>> Robert Meier wrote:
>>>> I suspect a bad power supply.
>>>
>>> As someone who has repaired hundreds of switching power supplies, I
>>> agree with Bob--the power supply is likely defective or marginal,
>>> probably a bad electrolytic capacitor.  ...
> 
>> By power supply do you mean the brick that I plug in the wall?
> 
> The power supply in question is the component that the "brick"
> plugs into on the laptop side.  It is likely to be an aluminum box
> with the socket to plug the "brick" into and several ribbon/zip
> cables with only 2, 3, or 4 conduits each.

Here is a picture of where the round power connector plugs into the
laptop:<http://mdlug.org/contacts/president/scripts+scraps/images/p1010042.html>
Not much in the way of components there. (The other side of that circuit
board has no components at all, save the plastic plug with the power
out.)  Also I doubt that any of these components are the source of the
problem, the battery charged with out problem. And when running (or
trying to run) off battery these parts aren't in the circuit.
Here's another shot that shows the cable that takes the power to the
mother board, it's the square plug.
<http://mdlug.org/contacts/president/scripts+scraps/images/p1010038.html>

And in this shot
<http://mdlug.org/contacts/president/scripts+scraps/images/p1010036.html>
you can see the white square connector that takes that square plug. Just
above that are the 6 tines that connect into the battery. I don't see
anything in this vicinity that looks like a "switching power supply"
such as you have described. Those "R45X 7126Q" components could be solid
state DC/DC  converters. Here's a better look at how they look at how
they are attached to the board.
<http://mdlug.org/contacts/president/scripts+scraps/images/p1010045.html>

It looks like a kind of tricky solder job, and I have no idea where to
get replacements. Just googling R45X and 7126Q separately finds  nothing
useful, and both terms in the same search finds nothing at all.


>  It is also likely
> to be a section of the motherboard, with the socket soldered
> to the motherboard, and larger than average traces in that area.
> In either manifestation its purpose is to isolate the computer
> (high-gain) circuitry from fluctuations due to varying load
> or line (brick) noise.

I would expect a modern "brick" to have pretty good noise suppression
built into it.

> 
> The computer circuitry only needs clean steady voltage,
> so attaching the motherboard feed lines to a "bench supply"
> will demonstrate whether or not the laptop power supply
> is indeed the problem.

Again I'm pretty sure I'm supplying the motherboard with steady, clean
power when I try to running from just the (fully charged) battery pack.

> Replacing the coil, diodes, or capacitor is usually an easy
> solder job, as they normally need only be "big enough" not
> "tuned".

Interestingly there isn't a single "can" type capacitor on the whole
board. Any power handling capacitors must be solid state. I'm not sure
what thet look like, but I think that's a couple of them just to the
right of the CMOS battery connection, with the distinct "+" signs on
them.
<http://mdlug.org/contacts/president/scripts+scraps/images/p1010052.html>

> Good luck,


Any more ideas?

Ray



From drew4096 at gmail.com  Sun Mar 15 16:17:42 2009
From: drew4096 at gmail.com (Drew)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:17:42 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Cheap laptop?
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20090315150527.02c609d0@pop.gmail.com>

I'm looking at an ad in today's ABC Warehouse weekly that claims that 
they're selling HP Notebook
computers (HPG70250US/34099) for $50. Yes, there is a single zero 
after the five. There does not
appear to be any fine print saying anything like "per month" or "with 
purchase of an uber-expensive
per-month service for several years". It's listed with a 17 inch 
screen, and Lightscribe (which implies
a DVD burner).

The downsides: It only has a "320mb" hard drive; and it has Windows Vista.

----

- Drew.



From peter at petertheplumber.net  Sun Mar 15 16:28:45 2009
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 16:28:45 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Cheap laptop?
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20090315150527.02c609d0@pop.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20090315150527.02c609d0@pop.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1237148925.26042.187.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

On Sun, 2009-03-15 at 15:17 -0500, Drew wrote:
> I'm looking at an ad in today's ABC Warehouse weekly that claims that 
> they're selling HP Notebook
> computers (HPG70250US/34099) for $50. Yes, there is a single zero 
> after the five. There does not
> appear to be any fine print saying anything like "per month" or "with 
> purchase of an uber-expensive
> per-month service for several years". It's listed with a 17 inch 
> screen, and Lightscribe (which implies
> a DVD burner).
> 
> The downsides: It only has a "320mb" hard drive; and it has Windows Vista.
> 

	If you have a paper copy, can I have it after you're done with it?
ABC's website lists that notebook for ?$679 After $50.00 Mail-In Rebate.
I'd buy several at that price!!!

<http://www.abcwarehouse.com/search.asp~searchstring~34099~count~1>

<http://www.abcwarehouse.com/search.asp~searchstring~HPG70250US~count~1>
                                    

Best Regards,
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
Peter The Plumber



From peter at petertheplumber.net  Sun Mar 15 16:40:14 2009
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 16:40:14 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Cheap laptop?
In-Reply-To: <1237148925.26042.187.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20090315150527.02c609d0@pop.gmail.com>
	<1237148925.26042.187.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <1237149614.26042.192.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

On Sun, 2009-03-15 at 16:28 -0400, Peter Bart wrote:
> On Sun, 2009-03-15 at 15:17 -0500, Drew wrote:
> > I'm looking at an ad in today's ABC Warehouse weekly that claims that 
> > they're selling HP Notebook
> > computers (HPG70250US/34099) for $50. Yes, there is a single zero 
> > after the five. There does not
> > appear to be any fine print saying anything like "per month" or "with 
> > purchase of an uber-expensive
> > per-month service for several years". It's listed with a 17 inch 
> > screen, and Lightscribe (which implies
> > a DVD burner).
> > 
> > The downsides: It only has a "320mb" hard drive; and it has Windows Vista.
> > 
> 
> 	If you have a paper copy, can I have it after you're done with it?
> ABC's website lists that notebook for ?$679 After $50.00 Mail-In Rebate.
> I'd buy several at that price!!!
> 
> <http://www.abcwarehouse.com/search.asp~searchstring~34099~count~1>
> 
> <http://www.abcwarehouse.com/search.asp~searchstring~HPG70250US~count~1>
>                                     

	It is in fact as Drew stated. It's a typo, either on purpose or
accident. The paper lists the model number and MB instead of GB for the
hard drive. I'd like to see Vista run on that one! The price is listed
in the paper as $50, no limit or restrictions. I'm going to try, but I
can allready tell you what they'll say........

Best Regards,

-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
Peter The Plumber



From c_malmsten at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 15 21:48:19 2009
From: c_malmsten at yahoo.com (CLMalmsten)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 18:48:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Thanks from a newbie
Message-ID: <928651.57907.qm@web56401.mail.re3.yahoo.com>


Hi all, just wanted to write in and let you know how much I appreciate your help yesterday. You taught me so much in so little time, and I walked out feeling like I'd taken a giant step towards *finally* installing a Linux OS. There's only so much a Google search can do for me - to be able to talk with and see real live Linux users meant a lot to me.

Thanks again,
Christy


      


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 19:20:59 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:20:59 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into Tech
	Industry
Message-ID: <49BEDEDB.5030809@gmail.com>

Oh
My
God

<http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/03/tempers-flare-as-recession-creeps-into.html>


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 21:12:04 2009
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 21:12:04 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into
	Tech Industry
In-Reply-To: <49BEDEDB.5030809@gmail.com>
References: <49BEDEDB.5030809@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90903161812y404dbeb9se9eb0ae6149be3f9@mail.gmail.com>

2009/3/16 Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>:
> Oh
> My
> God
>
> <http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/03/tempers-flare-as-recession-creeps-into.html>

Read that a week or so ago.  Glad he came out on top.  The marketing
basis of the company is not surprising.  The existence of Microsoft's
Live OneCare is proof enough.


From micorral at comcast.net  Mon Mar 16 22:00:24 2009
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 22:00:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into
 Tech Industry
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90903161812y404dbeb9se9eb0ae6149be3f9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49BEDEDB.5030809@gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90903161812y404dbeb9se9eb0ae6149be3f9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0903162148250.4642@banana.sluggo.net>

2009-03-16, Monsieur Jeff Hanson a ecrit:
> 2009/3/16 Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>:
>> <http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/03/tempers-flare-as-recession-creeps-into.html>
>
> Read that a week or so ago.  Glad he came out on top.

Well, according to him he came out on top. For all we know the other guy
could've beaten the snot out of him, and he's only now getting out of the
hospital to blog about it. :)

I think he made the whole thing up. The tip-off is usually when guys like
this start bragging about their fighting ability and/or martial arts
skills. It's just a little bit too much like Internet Tough Guy:
http://imgur.com/3JXUA
In fact, this guy seems to have a history of making things up, from what
I understand. Stories on the interweb are occasionally not true. :)

Michael


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 23:22:18 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 23:22:18 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into
 Tech Industry
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0903162148250.4642@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <49BEDEDB.5030809@gmail.com>	<b02c40e90903161812y404dbeb9se9eb0ae6149be3f9@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903162148250.4642@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <49BF176A.2020503@gmail.com>

Michael Corral wrote:
> 2009-03-16, Monsieur Jeff Hanson a ecrit:
>> 2009/3/16 Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>:
>>> <http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/03/tempers-flare-as-recession-creeps-into.html>
>> Read that a week or so ago.  Glad he came out on top.
> 
> Well, according to him he came out on top. For all we know the other guy
> could've beaten the snot out of him, and he's only now getting out of the
> hospital to blog about it. :)
> 
> I think he made the whole thing up. The tip-off is usually when guys like
> this start bragging about their fighting ability and/or martial arts
> skills.

Where was there any mention of that?
He just said that a junior-level field-tech got all pissed
because he sees Linux as the cause of declining "guaranteed
revenue" to service Windows, and a manager in the guy's
chain of supervision was in the van, too, called the guy off.

> It's just a little bit too much like Internet Tough Guy:
> http://imgur.com/3JXUA

Ha! Funny pic.

> In fact, this guy seems to have a history of making things up, from what
> I understand.

What else has he made up?

His previous brush with fame
<http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding-our-kids-back.html>
 turned out to be true.

> Stories on the interweb are occasionally not true. :)

Oftenso. Especially on Wikipedia.


From radkins at impelind.com  Tue Mar 17 09:27:39 2009
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:27:39 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into
	Tech Industry
In-Reply-To: <49BF176A.2020503@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090317135348.520BBC0D3@impelind.com>



> >> Read that a week or so ago.  Glad he came out on top.
> > 
> > Well, according to him he came out on top. For all we know 
> the other 
> > guy could've beaten the snot out of him, and he's only now 
> getting out 
> > of the hospital to blog about it. :)
> > 
> > I think he made the whole thing up. The tip-off is usually 
> when guys 
> > like this start bragging about their fighting ability 
> and/or martial 
> > arts skills.
> 
> Where was there any mention of that?
> He just said that a junior-level field-tech got all pissed 
> because he sees Linux as the cause of declining "guaranteed 
> revenue" to service Windows, and a manager in the guy's chain 
> of supervision was in the van, too, called the guy off.
> 

  He strongly implied that the confrontation turned physical and he had to
defend himself, thus protecting the only hair he has left (his ponytail). He
clearly stated that he was the only one to remain on his feet.

  While I can see some tempers flare over some stupid things, I am unsure
that some nerd herd employee would flip out like a Ninja and try to beat
someone at a gas station parking lot.

  -Rob



From driveray at ameritech.net  Tue Mar 17 11:07:02 2009
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 11:07:02 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into
 Tech Industry
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0903162148250.4642@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <49BEDEDB.5030809@gmail.com>	<b02c40e90903161812y404dbeb9se9eb0ae6149be3f9@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903162148250.4642@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <49BFBC96.4020507@ameritech.net>

Michael Corral wrote:

> I think he made the whole thing up. The tip-off is usually when guys like
> this start bragging about their fighting ability and/or martial arts
> skills. 

My impression was that he refrained from bragging out of concern about
potential litigation.


From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Wed Mar 18 00:23:04 2009
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Robert Meier)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 00:23:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Violence resulting from FUD [Was: Re: Blog of helios: ...]
In-Reply-To: <20090317135348.520BBC0D3@impelind.com> (radkins@impelind.com)
References: <20090317135348.520BBC0D3@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <20090318042304.B979320AAEB@starfox.local>

Rob,

> While I can see some tempers flare over some stupid things,
> I am unsure that some nerd herd employee would flip out
> like a Ninja and try to beat someone at a gas station parking lot.

I have seen similar things unfortunately,
up to and including credible threat of physical violence,
over use of non-Microsoft products,
that FUD incorrectly equated with virus propogation.

I have witnessed a father discipline their teenage child
(a week without internet?) for using "theft tools".

Reporting,
-- 
Bob

  "Each problem that I solved became a rule,
   which served afterwards to solve other problems."
     -- Rene Descartes



From gib at juno.com  Wed Mar 18 10:45:03 2009
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:45:03 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into Tech
	In	dustry
Message-ID: <20090318.104503.14856.1@webmail09.vgs.untd.com>

 
So, how do we enlist the help of people in the PC service industry?  
How can we find a way to help this person retain his job?

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
To: "mdlug at mdlug.org" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into Tech Industry
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:20:59 -0400

Oh
My
God

<http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/03/tempers-flare-as-recession-creeps-into.html>
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

____________________________________________________________
Free Fashion Design Education Information. Click now.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/BLSrjnsM7HZfBJ9mnPqiThZw0a6YeJmGDZzwafjM4aHPSczUtqbNIspDVA0/

From gib at juno.com  Wed Mar 18 11:26:06 2009
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:26:06 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into
	Tec	h In dustry
Message-ID: <20090318.112606.3446.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>

 
Perhaps this could be a meeting topic.  Could we send out invitations to people who work in PC support to meet with us to talk about Linux?
We could show them tools that will allow them to better support the PC diagnosis and repair.
We could help them to understand how they can provide better products to their customers.
I would suggest that it would only cost about $40 to put a classified ad in the local papers.

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "gib at juno.com" <gib at juno.com>
To: mdlug at mdlug.org
Cc: mdlug at mdlug.org
Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into Tech In dustry
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:45:03 GMT


 
So, how do we enlist the help of people in the PC service industry?  
How can we find a way to help this person retain his job?

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
To: "mdlug at mdlug.org" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into Tech Industry
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:20:59 -0400

Oh
My
God

<http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/03/tempers-flare-as-recession-creeps-into.html>
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

____________________________________________________________
Get educated.  Click here for Adult Education programs.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/BLSrjnsIn6KQ5pP9KTJ9eviiaa1qKgJIKRjYAbOMIB7aVw2379Og1qocHmQ/

From rkannan at peoplepc.com  Wed Mar 18 12:03:40 2009
From: rkannan at peoplepc.com (R. Kannan)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 12:03:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps
	into	Tec	h In dustry
Message-ID: <23091247.1237392221313.JavaMail.root@elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

If these guys wanted to learn Linux and adapt to change, they wouldn't be engaging in violence. 

If they are too lazy to learn something new and a predisposition against Linux, they would not be coming to MDLUG meeting anyway.

-----Original Message-----
>From: "gib at juno.com" <gib at juno.com>
>Sent: Mar 18, 2009 11:26 AM
>To: Undisclosed-recipients at null, null at null
>Subject: Re: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into	Tec	h In dustry
>
> 
>Perhaps this could be a meeting topic.  Could we send out invitations to people who work in PC support to meet with us to talk about Linux?
>We could show them tools that will allow them to better support the PC diagnosis and repair.
>We could help them to understand how they can provide better products to their customers.
>I would suggest that it would only cost about $40 to put a classified ad in the local papers.
>
>---------- Original Message ----------
>From: "gib at juno.com" <gib at juno.com>
>To: mdlug at mdlug.org
>Cc: mdlug at mdlug.org
>Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into Tech In dustry
>Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:45:03 GMT
>
>
> 
>So, how do we enlist the help of people in the PC service industry?  
>How can we find a way to help this person retain his job?
>
>---------- Original Message ----------
>From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
>To: "mdlug at mdlug.org" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into Tech Industry
>Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:20:59 -0400
>
>Oh
>My
>God
>
><http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/03/tempers-flare-as-recession-creeps-into.html>
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>____________________________________________________________
>Get educated.  Click here for Adult Education programs.
>http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/BLSrjnsIn6KQ5pP9KTJ9eviiaa1qKgJIKRjYAbOMIB7aVw2379Og1qocHmQ/
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 18 12:54:02 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 12:54:02 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into
 Tech In	dustry
In-Reply-To: <20090318.104503.14856.1@webmail09.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20090318.104503.14856.1@webmail09.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <49C1272A.7000408@gmail.com>

gib at juno.com wrote:
>  
> So, how do we enlist the help of people in the PC service industry?  

Personally, I don't care about them.  Their decision to partake
in a business model which can only be described as parasitic
it not my responsibility.  I don't think they'll ever get the
support of people whose primary work consists of carrying
around anti-virus and MS filesystem defraggers.

They perform NO value-added work, because, frankly, they don't
have the ability to do so in the computer industry.  Their
mentality is very similar to someone in a "featherbed" job
in a UAW plant -- they will fight, kicking and screaming, ANY
change to the system, because the current system means that
they get paid for not doing anything of actual value.

Lazy people LOVE "make work" situations in which efficiency
is specifically avoided, as opposed to an even semi-rational
system in which efficiency improvements are one of the goals.

> How can we find a way to help this person retain his job?

If he's too stubborn to learn to use something that's FREE,
that's his own, self-created problem.

> 
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
> To: "mdlug at mdlug.org" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into Tech Industry
> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:20:59 -0400
> 
> Oh
> My
> God
> 
> <http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/03/tempers-flare-as-recession-creeps-into.html>


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 18 12:56:12 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 12:56:12 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into
 Tec	h In dustry
In-Reply-To: <20090318.112606.3446.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20090318.112606.3446.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <49C127AC.7060504@gmail.com>

gib at juno.com wrote:
>  
> Perhaps this could be a meeting topic.  Could we send out invitations to people who work in PC support to meet with us to talk about Linux?
> We could show them tools that will allow them to better support the PC diagnosis and repair.
> We could help them to understand how they can provide better products to their customers.
> I would suggest that it would only cost about $40 to put a classified ad in the local papers.
> 

This is one of the reasons why I think we should be getting
Linux into the local school districts.

Imagine if every driver's education program in the country
was settling on one make of car, which was generally, and
specifically designed to be incompatible with all other
vehicles on the market?  Parents would throw a fit!!!

> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: "gib at juno.com" <gib at juno.com>
> To: mdlug at mdlug.org
> Cc: mdlug at mdlug.org
> Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into Tech In dustry
> Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:45:03 GMT
> 
> 
>  
> So, how do we enlist the help of people in the PC service industry?  
> How can we find a way to help this person retain his job?
> 
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
> To: "mdlug at mdlug.org" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into Tech Industry
> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:20:59 -0400
> 
> Oh
> My
> God
> 
> <http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/03/tempers-flare-as-recession-creeps-into.html>


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 18 15:10:43 2009
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 12:10:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into
	Tec h In dustry
References: <23091247.1237392221313.JavaMail.root@elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <68675.89051.qm@web37907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

At a site in California, I had a heated battle over Windows Vs. Linux on a project that I was in charge of.? I was a Regular staff and there was a contractor managing, My solution would have saved lots of money. Because we were going to flip a pc that was older and use MySQL. 

Instead I was FORCED to use Windows and MSSQL.? The project was a success but every once in a while the ODBC drivers would error out. I still had admin rights to that server, and when the admin staff said that it was my fault as a programmer I spent 3 days looking at my code, I accually made it run faster, but I never found what they were talking about.? 

I finally crossed linked the web and data servers and found that I was right in the first place. I showed what I did to find the problem, witch made that admin staff MAD because I had to do their job to show what was realy wrong.? needless to say I lost my admin rights to the TEST and LIVE servers.

Those that chose to move forward in the Linux Era, are generally more open to many different I.T. resources.? in the long run you are more of a resource then those that take the easy path of Windows. I have to admit I have a mixed envirnment at home both Windows and Linux.? I prefer Linux but I conceed that there are?many programs that are just just not available for Linux.? 

If My business got bigger I would use Linux as much as I could.? Accually I am, my web server is Linux (LAMP).? 

That is how Google got big.

David C. Lane




________________________________
From: R. Kannan <rkannan at peoplepc.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>; Undisclosed-recipients at null.mdlug.org; null at null.mdlug.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 12:03:40 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into Tec h In dustry

If these guys wanted to learn Linux and adapt to change, they wouldn't be engaging in violence. 

If they are too lazy to learn something new and a predisposition against Linux, they would not be coming to MDLUG meeting anyway.

-----Original Message-----
>From: "gib at juno.com" <gib at juno.com>
>Sent: Mar 18, 2009 11:26 AM
>To: Undisclosed-recipients at null, null at null
>Subject: Re: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into??? Tec??? h In dustry
>
> 
>Perhaps this could be a meeting topic.? Could we send out invitations to people who work in PC support to meet with us to talk about Linux?
>We could show them tools that will allow them to better support the PC diagnosis and repair.
>We could help them to understand how they can provide better products to their customers.
>I would suggest that it would only cost about $40 to put a classified ad in the local papers.
>
>---------- Original Message ----------
>From: "gib at juno.com" <gib at juno.com>
>To: mdlug at mdlug.org
>Cc: mdlug at mdlug.org
>Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into Tech In dustry
>Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:45:03 GMT
>
>
> 
>So, how do we enlist the help of people in the PC service industry?? 
>How can we find a way to help this person retain his job?
>
>---------- Original Message ----------
>From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
>To: "mdlug at mdlug.org" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into Tech Industry
>Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:20:59 -0400
>
>Oh
>My
>God
>
><http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/03/tempers-flare-as-recession-creeps-into.html>
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>____________________________________________________________
>Get educated.? Click here for Adult Education programs.
>http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/BLSrjnsIn6KQ5pP9KTJ9eviiaa1qKgJIKRjYAbOMIB7aVw2379Og1qocHmQ/
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      

From drew4096 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 18 15:50:46 2009
From: drew4096 at gmail.com (Drew)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:50:46 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into
 Tech In	dustry
In-Reply-To: <49C1272A.7000408@gmail.com>
References: <20090318.104503.14856.1@webmail09.vgs.untd.com>
	<49C1272A.7000408@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20090318144520.02c48200@pop.gmail.com>

At 11:54 AM 3/18/09, Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>Lazy people LOVE "make work" situations in which efficiency
>is specifically avoided, as opposed to an even semi-rational
>system in which efficiency improvements are one of the goals.

Hey, I'm lazy and I don't like that sort of make-work at all. I want 
more efficient
production everywhere in order to reduce the *need* for people (including me)
to work.

(How to keep everyone employed when the need for man-hours is severely reduced
this way? Simple. Cut the required work week to compensate for the increased
efficiency. I rather thought that was what more efficient production 
was *for*.)

----

- Drew.





From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 20 10:36:06 2009
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 07:36:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Video and Movie making tools.
Message-ID: <151880.21384.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi,

I'm having problems with my Premier Elements on my Windows box, and I'm looking for Video editing and movie making tools on linux. Is there any thing out there?

David C. Lane 



      

From painbank at gmail.com  Fri Mar 20 11:22:45 2009
From: painbank at gmail.com (Rich Elswick)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 11:22:45 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Video and Movie making tools.
In-Reply-To: <151880.21384.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <151880.21384.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cafacd830903200822p26533002jbec613b4815e6718@mail.gmail.com>

Cinelerra and Open Movie Editor are two I believe you may want to check out.

There are a few others too.

Rich

On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 10:36 AM, David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm having problems with my Premier Elements on my Windows box, and I'm
> looking for Video editing and movie making tools on linux. Is there any
> thing out there?
>
> David C. Lane
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>



-- 
Rich Elswick


From tony at bemushosting.com  Fri Mar 20 13:09:41 2009
From: tony at bemushosting.com (Tony Bemus)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 13:09:41 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Video and Movie making tools.
In-Reply-To: <cafacd830903200822p26533002jbec613b4815e6718@mail.gmail.com>
References: <151880.21384.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<cafacd830903200822p26533002jbec613b4815e6718@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49C3CDD5.3000007@bemushosting.com>

I use Kino and Qdvdauthor


Rich Elswick wrote:
> Cinelerra and Open Movie Editor are two I believe you may want to check out.
>
> There are a few others too.
>
> Rich
>
> On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 10:36 AM, David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>   
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm having problems with my Premier Elements on my Windows box, and I'm
>> looking for Video editing and movie making tools on linux. Is there any
>> thing out there?
>>
>> David C. Lane
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mdlug mailing list
>> mdlug at mdlug.org
>> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>>
>>     
>
>
>
>   


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 20 13:23:25 2009
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 10:23:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Video and Movie making tools.
In-Reply-To: <49C3CDD5.3000007@bemushosting.com>
References: <151880.21384.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<cafacd830903200822p26533002jbec613b4815e6718@mail.gmail.com>
	<49C3CDD5.3000007@bemushosting.com>
Message-ID: <337076.79785.qm@web37907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Do they render DVD's?




________________________________
From: Tony Bemus <tony at bemushosting.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 1:09:41 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Video and Movie making tools.

I use Kino and Qdvdauthor


Rich Elswick wrote:
> Cinelerra and Open Movie Editor are two I believe you may want to check out.
>
> There are a few others too.
>
> Rich
>
> On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 10:36 AM, David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>? 
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm having problems with my Premier Elements on my Windows box, and I'm
>> looking for Video editing and movie making tools on linux. Is there any
>> thing out there?
>>
>> David C. Lane
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mdlug mailing list
>> mdlug at mdlug.org
>> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>>
>>? ? 
>
>
>
>? 
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      

From painbank at gmail.com  Fri Mar 20 13:24:11 2009
From: painbank at gmail.com (Rich Elswick)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 13:24:11 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Video and Movie making tools.
In-Reply-To: <49C3CDD5.3000007@bemushosting.com>
References: <151880.21384.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<cafacd830903200822p26533002jbec613b4815e6718@mail.gmail.com>
	<49C3CDD5.3000007@bemushosting.com>
Message-ID: <cafacd830903201024l57f80dcbwaf5931e9d2a086d2@mail.gmail.com>

Of course you also may want to try out Ubunto Studio distro, which I believe
have all these and some.

Rich

On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Tony Bemus <tony at bemushosting.com> wrote:

> I use Kino and Qdvdauthor
>
>
> Rich Elswick wrote:
> > Cinelerra and Open Movie Editor are two I believe you may want to check
> out.
> >
> > There are a few others too.
> >
> > Rich
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 10:36 AM, David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I'm having problems with my Premier Elements on my Windows box, and I'm
> >> looking for Video editing and movie making tools on linux. Is there any
> >> thing out there?
> >>
> >> David C. Lane
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> mdlug mailing list
> >> mdlug at mdlug.org
> >> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>



-- 
Rich Elswick


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 20 13:33:29 2009
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 10:33:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Video and Movie making tools.
In-Reply-To: <cafacd830903201024l57f80dcbwaf5931e9d2a086d2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <151880.21384.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<cafacd830903200822p26533002jbec613b4815e6718@mail.gmail.com>
	<49C3CDD5.3000007@bemushosting.com>
	<cafacd830903201024l57f80dcbwaf5931e9d2a086d2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <584708.88332.qm@web37907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Okay I will look at my Suse Install Media.? To see what is there.? 

This may elemanate the need for one of my Windows box's. 

David 




________________________________
From: Rich Elswick <painbank at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 1:24:11 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Video and Movie making tools.

Of course you also may want to try out Ubunto Studio distro, which I believe
have all these and some.

Rich

On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Tony Bemus <tony at bemushosting.com> wrote:

> I use Kino and Qdvdauthor
>
>
> Rich Elswick wrote:
> > Cinelerra and Open Movie Editor are two I believe you may want to check
> out.
> >
> > There are a few others too.
> >
> > Rich
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 10:36 AM, David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I'm having problems with my Premier Elements on my Windows box, and I'm
> >> looking for Video editing and movie making tools on linux. Is there any
> >> thing out there?
> >>
> >> David C. Lane
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> mdlug mailing list
> >> mdlug at mdlug.org
> >> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>



-- 
Rich Elswick
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      

From painbank at gmail.com  Fri Mar 20 13:58:01 2009
From: painbank at gmail.com (Rich Elswick)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 13:58:01 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Video and Movie making tools.
In-Reply-To: <584708.88332.qm@web37907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <151880.21384.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<cafacd830903200822p26533002jbec613b4815e6718@mail.gmail.com>
	<49C3CDD5.3000007@bemushosting.com>
	<cafacd830903201024l57f80dcbwaf5931e9d2a086d2@mail.gmail.com>
	<584708.88332.qm@web37907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cafacd830903201058g6d7a328fwf0f0a3b665ece86e@mail.gmail.com>

Just make sure the editors can do all you want, since the linux video
editing tools, from my very limited experience, lag seriously behind the
professional tools for Windows and Macs out there.

Rich

On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 1:33 PM, David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Okay I will look at my Suse Install Media.  To see what is there.
>
> This may elemanate the need for one of my Windows box's.
>
> David
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Rich Elswick <painbank at gmail.com>
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 1:24:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Video and Movie making tools.
>
> Of course you also may want to try out Ubunto Studio distro, which I
> believe
> have all these and some.
>
> Rich
>
> On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Tony Bemus <tony at bemushosting.com> wrote:
>
> > I use Kino and Qdvdauthor
> >
> >
> > Rich Elswick wrote:
> > > Cinelerra and Open Movie Editor are two I believe you may want to check
> > out.
> > >
> > > There are a few others too.
> > >
> > > Rich
> > >
> > > On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 10:36 AM, David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >> Hi,
> > >>
> > >> I'm having problems with my Premier Elements on my Windows box, and
> I'm
> > >> looking for Video editing and movie making tools on linux. Is there
> any
> > >> thing out there?
> > >>
> > >> David C. Lane
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> mdlug mailing list
> > >> mdlug at mdlug.org
> > >> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > mdlug mailing list
> > mdlug at mdlug.org
> > http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Rich Elswick
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>



-- 
Rich Elswick


From driveray at ameritech.net  Fri Mar 20 14:36:49 2009
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 14:36:49 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Video and Movie making tools.
In-Reply-To: <584708.88332.qm@web37907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <151880.21384.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<cafacd830903200822p26533002jbec613b4815e6718@mail.gmail.com>	<49C3CDD5.3000007@bemushosting.com>	<cafacd830903201024l57f80dcbwaf5931e9d2a086d2@mail.gmail.com>
	<584708.88332.qm@web37907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49C3E241.6060508@ameritech.net>

David Lane wrote:
> Okay I will look at my Suse Install Media.  To see what is there.  
> 
> This may elemanate the need for one of my Windows box's. 
> 
> David 

If you are using SuSE/ OpenSUSE you should definitely add online
repositories to your software selection in YAST. Especciall the VideoLan
and Packman repos.




From drew4096 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 20 21:53:46 2009
From: drew4096 at gmail.com (Drew)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 20:53:46 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Booting CD images from a hard drive partition
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20090320194948.02c420d0@pop.gmail.com>

I wish to set aside one or more partitions on the new hard drive for 
holding a copy of
a Linux boot CD, such as Knoppix, PC-OS, or RIPLinux, to have a copy ready to
boot without needing to dig out the CD.

I've managed to get Grub, on the MBR and with its config files in 
/dev/sda2, to boot
into another copy of Grub on /dev/sda5 via rootnoverify / chainloader 
+1; with that copy of
grub giving a choice of kernels in Suse. I'm doing the same thing 
with the master Grub
for the CD image.

My menu.lst for the MBR Grub looks (partially) like this:

# Other bootable partition config begins
   title DOS on (/dev/hda1)
   rootnoverify (hd0,0)
   makeactive
   chainloader +1
   title SUSE on (/dev/hda5)
   rootnoverify (hd0,4)
# makeactive
   chainloader +1
   title RIPlinux on (/dev/hda6)
   rootnoverify (hd0,5)
# makeactive
   chainloader +1
# Other bootable partition config ends
# Linux bootable partition config begins
   title Linux on (/dev/hda5)
   root (hd0,4)
   kernel /boot/vmlinuz root=/dev/hda5 ro vga=normal
# Linux bootable partition config ends

Selecting the Suse option that uses the chainloader command works as 
expected. Presumably
it just jumps to the very beginning of /dev/hda5 where the other copy 
of Grub picks up and does
its thing. Now to get the RIPLinux option to do the same thing.

First attempt: Simply dd the CD onto the partition, then try to boot 
it. I got "isolinux.bin missing
or corrupt".

Next I tried map (cd) (hd0,5) and map (hd0,5) (cd) at which commands 
it choked. So I took them
out.

Then I copied the CD to a directory, changed all instances of (cd) to 
(hd0,5) in its boot/grub/menu.lst,
and made a new CD image with mkisofs, following the directions in 
boot/doc/isolinux.txt on the CD.
I dd'd that to the partition and tried booting it. Back to 
"isolinux.bin missing or corrupt".

I then processed the image with the 'isohybrid' script on the CD, 
then again dd'd it to the partition.
Same result. Also same result doing isohybrid on an unchanged iso copy.

Okay, what do I need to do to get it to find the isolinux.bin file?

BTW: I am aware that there is an "install to hard drive" option when 
the CD itself is booted. I'd
rather not use that if I can avoid it; I rather like the 'it's a 
fresh system every reboot' aspect of booting
from the CD. I just want to do it without actually using the CDROM drive.

----

- Drew.




From micorral at comcast.net  Fri Mar 20 22:42:49 2009
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 22:42:49 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Video and Movie making tools.
In-Reply-To: <151880.21384.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <151880.21384.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0903202242320.2985@banana.sluggo.net>

2009-03-20, Monsieur David Lane a ecrit:
> I'm having problems with my Premier Elements on my Windows box, and
> I'm looking for Video editing and movie making tools on linux. Is there
> any thing out there?

I use Emacs for video editing: http://1010.co.uk/gneve.html

Michael


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Fri Mar 20 23:10:45 2009
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 23:10:45 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Booting CD images from a hard drive partition
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20090320194948.02c420d0@pop.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20090320194948.02c420d0@pop.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90903202010p2aef2c6bu9cbcb264d62a3d5a@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 9:53 PM, Drew <drew4096 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I wish to set aside one or more partitions on the new hard drive for
> holding a copy of
> a Linux boot CD, such as Knoppix, PC-OS, or RIPLinux, to have a copy ready to
> boot without needing to dig out the CD.
>

I've never tried that. On my network I have a server with the ISO
images mounted.  I netboot with PXELinux from a TFTP server.  It then
loads my custom ubuntu-installer menus where I can select from several
different Ubuntu ISOs, Mandriva, Knoppix, DSL, and Parted Magic (the
latter two from huge initrds instead of ISOs).  The ISOs are accessed
over NFS.  For installations I have some basic kickstart configs for
Ubuntu which set some defaults for the "alternate" installers.  Works
pretty good with systems that can netboot.  Been meaning to document
this mess.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Fri Mar 20 23:15:22 2009
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 23:15:22 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Video and Movie making tools.
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0903202242320.2985@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <151880.21384.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903202242320.2985@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90903202015h510556f0v23264b7b92da1816@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 10:42 PM, Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net> wrote:
> I use Emacs for video editing: http://1010.co.uk/gneve.html
>

Wow.  I wouldn't be surprised if at some point integrated ext3/ext4
filesystem support is developed for emacs so that it doesn't need a
kernel anymore (just to reduce overhead).


From carl at carltm.com  Sat Mar 21 06:22:58 2009
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 06:22:58 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Booting CD images from a hard drive partition
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90903202010p2aef2c6bu9cbcb264d62a3d5a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20090320194948.02c420d0@pop.gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90903202010p2aef2c6bu9cbcb264d62a3d5a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51467.216.144.203.250.1237630979.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> I've never tried that. On my network I have a server with the ISO
> images mounted.  I netboot with PXELinux from a TFTP server.  It then
> loads my custom ubuntu-installer menus where I can select from several
> different Ubuntu ISOs, Mandriva, Knoppix, DSL, and Parted Magic (the
> latter two from huge initrds instead of ISOs).  The ISOs are accessed
> over NFS.  For installations I have some basic kickstart configs for
> Ubuntu which set some defaults for the "alternate" installers.  Works
> pretty good with systems that can netboot.  Been meaning to document
> this mess.

Yes, please do!  A couple of years ago I set up a network
booting environment that let me install Debian without needing
a boot floppy or cd.  I had the menu set up to boot normally
as defined in the BIOS or with the Debian installer image.  I
wasn't able to figure out how to add iso images to the mix.

c




From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Mon Mar 23 10:29:43 2009
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 10:29:43 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Booting CD images from a hard drive partition
In-Reply-To: <51467.216.144.203.250.1237630979.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20090320194948.02c420d0@pop.gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90903202010p2aef2c6bu9cbcb264d62a3d5a@mail.gmail.com>
	<51467.216.144.203.250.1237630979.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4692D10F875@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

I had a similar set up.  Being the lazy person I am, I had gotten it to the point where I could rack and cable up the server, power it on, then by the time I walked from the datacenter to my desk, the server would be installed and sitting at a prompt for me to ssh into it.

PXE + NFS Install + Kickstart = WIN


-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Carl T. Miller
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 6:23 AM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Booting CD images from a hard drive partition

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> I've never tried that. On my network I have a server with the ISO
> images mounted.  I netboot with PXELinux from a TFTP server.  It then
> loads my custom ubuntu-installer menus where I can select from several
> different Ubuntu ISOs, Mandriva, Knoppix, DSL, and Parted Magic (the
> latter two from huge initrds instead of ISOs).  The ISOs are accessed
> over NFS.  For installations I have some basic kickstart configs for
> Ubuntu which set some defaults for the "alternate" installers.  Works
> pretty good with systems that can netboot.  Been meaning to document
> this mess.

Yes, please do!  A couple of years ago I set up a network
booting environment that let me install Debian without needing
a boot floppy or cd.  I had the menu set up to boot normally
as defined in the BIOS or with the Debian installer image.  I
wasn't able to figure out how to add iso images to the mix.

c


_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 23 11:20:50 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 11:20:50 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Booting CD images from a hard drive partition
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20090320194948.02c420d0@pop.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20090320194948.02c420d0@pop.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49C7A8D2.6000602@gmail.com>

Drew wrote:
> I wish to set aside one or more partitions on the new hard drive for 
> holding a copy of
> a Linux boot CD, such as Knoppix, PC-OS, or RIPLinux, to have a copy ready to
> boot without needing to dig out the CD.
> 
> I've managed to get Grub, on the MBR and with its config files in 
> /dev/sda2, to boot
> into another copy of Grub on /dev/sda5 via rootnoverify / chainloader 
> +1; with that copy of
> grub giving a choice of kernels in Suse. I'm doing the same thing 
> with the master Grub
> for the CD image.
> 
> My menu.lst for the MBR Grub looks (partially) like this:
> 
> # Other bootable partition config begins
>    title DOS on (/dev/hda1)
>    rootnoverify (hd0,0)
>    makeactive
>    chainloader +1
>    title SUSE on (/dev/hda5)
>    rootnoverify (hd0,4)
> # makeactive
>    chainloader +1
>    title RIPlinux on (/dev/hda6)
>    rootnoverify (hd0,5)
> # makeactive
>    chainloader +1
> # Other bootable partition config ends
> # Linux bootable partition config begins
>    title Linux on (/dev/hda5)
>    root (hd0,4)
>    kernel /boot/vmlinuz root=/dev/hda5 ro vga=normal
> # Linux bootable partition config ends
> 
> Selecting the Suse option that uses the chainloader command works as 
> expected. Presumably
> it just jumps to the very beginning of /dev/hda5 where the other copy 
> of Grub picks up and does
> its thing. Now to get the RIPLinux option to do the same thing.
> 
> First attempt: Simply dd the CD onto the partition, then try to boot 
> it. I got "isolinux.bin missing
> or corrupt".
> 
> Next I tried map (cd) (hd0,5) and map (hd0,5) (cd) at which commands 
> it choked. So I took them
> out.
> 
> Then I copied the CD to a directory, changed all instances of (cd) to 
> (hd0,5) in its boot/grub/menu.lst,
> and made a new CD image with mkisofs, following the directions in 
> boot/doc/isolinux.txt on the CD.
> I dd'd that to the partition and tried booting it. Back to 
> "isolinux.bin missing or corrupt".
> 
> I then processed the image with the 'isohybrid' script on the CD, 
> then again dd'd it to the partition.
> Same result. Also same result doing isohybrid on an unchanged iso copy.
> 
> Okay, what do I need to do to get it to find the isolinux.bin file?
> 
> BTW: I am aware that there is an "install to hard drive" option when 
> the CD itself is booted. I'd
> rather not use that if I can avoid it; I rather like the 'it's a 
> fresh system every reboot' aspect of booting
> from the CD. I just want to do it without actually using the CDROM drive.
> 

Why not just copy the CONTENTS of the iso filesystem onto
a native filesystem (say, ext3) on a partition, and boot that?

You sound like someone who is says they want to get to the
top floor of a skyscraper and want to know what path to take
up the outside wall of a skyscraper, completely ignoring the
fact that there are staircases and elevators already in
place for precisely that purpose.

The solution is NOT to cram a square peg into a round hole.
use mkfs to create a filesystem on the partition, mount
the .iso file, and then boot that partition.

This is very simple.  The only thing difficult is your
insistence upon a really, REALLY sub-optimal choice of
configuration elements (i.e. using a .iso file as the
system to boot off of).  ISO's have a lot of limitations,
beyond the particular one you're facing at this point.


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 23 13:51:08 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 13:51:08 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Video and Movie making tools.
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90903202015h510556f0v23264b7b92da1816@mail.gmail.com>
References: <151880.21384.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903202242320.2985@banana.sluggo.net>
	<b02c40e90903202015h510556f0v23264b7b92da1816@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49C7CC0C.306@gmail.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 10:42 PM, Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net> wrote:
>> I use Emacs for video editing: http://1010.co.uk/gneve.html
>>
> 
> Wow.  I wouldn't be surprised if at some point integrated ext3/ext4
> filesystem support is developed for emacs so that it doesn't need a
> kernel anymore (just to reduce overhead).

emacs and "reduce overhead"

I never thought I would see "emacs" and "reduce overhead" in the same
sentance

[Back in the era of a-couple-of-megabyte" machines, emacs
was called "Eight megabytes always, continuously swapping."]


From z_mikowski at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 23 17:41:48 2009
From: z_mikowski at yahoo.com (Michael S. Mikowski)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 14:41:48 -0700
Subject: [mdlug] Booting CD images from a hard drive partition
In-Reply-To: <49C7A8D2.6000602@gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20090320194948.02c420d0@pop.gmail.com>
	<49C7A8D2.6000602@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200903231441.48501.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>

On Monday 23 March 2009 08:20:50 Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> Drew wrote:
> > I wish to set aside one or more partitions on the new hard drive for
> > holding a copy of
> > a Linux boot CD, such as Knoppix, PC-OS, or RIPLinux, to have a copy
> > ready to boot without needing to dig out the CD.
> > ...
> > BTW: I am aware that there is an "install to hard drive" option when
> > the CD itself is booted. I'd
> > rather not use that if I can avoid it; I rather like the 'it's a
> > fresh system every reboot' aspect of booting
> > from the CD. I just want to do it without actually using the CDROM drive.
>
> Why not just copy the CONTENTS of the iso filesystem onto
> a native filesystem (say, ext3) on a partition, and boot that?
>
> You sound like someone who is says they want to get to the
> top floor of a skyscraper and want to know what path to take
> up the outside wall of a skyscraper, completely ignoring the
> fact that there are staircases and elevators already in
> place for precisely that purpose.
>
> The solution is NOT to cram a square peg into a round hole.
> use mkfs to create a filesystem on the partition, mount
> the .iso file, and then boot that partition.
>
> This is very simple.  The only thing difficult is your
> insistence upon a really, REALLY sub-optimal choice of
> configuration elements (i.e. using a .iso file as the
> system to boot off of).  ISO's have a lot of limitations,
> beyond the particular one you're facing at this point.

It sounds to me like this should work.  In fact, this could be one way the 
developers test their live CD builds (the other, which I have used a few 
times, is to mount an iso image through a loopback device and use VMWare).

I think the key point is Drew wants the system to boot as if it is coming from 
the CD, e.g. use of a ramdisk instead of mounting file system, and all the 
other magic that occurs when the distro determines it is mounting off a 'live 
CD'.

The only problem I could see is if the copied iso contents start acting 
differently because on boot they recognize they are coming from a hard drive.  
But that seems unlikely.

Cheers, Mike






From micorral at comcast.net  Mon Mar 23 21:02:42 2009
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:02:42 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Video and Movie making tools.
In-Reply-To: <49C7CC0C.306@gmail.com>
References: <151880.21384.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903202242320.2985@banana.sluggo.net>
	<b02c40e90903202015h510556f0v23264b7b92da1816@mail.gmail.com>
	<49C7CC0C.306@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0903232058340.3747@banana.sluggo.net>

2009-03-23, Monsieur Aaron Kulkis a ecrit:
> Jeff Hanson wrote:
>> On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 10:42 PM, Michael Corral wrote:
>>> I use Emacs for video editing: http://1010.co.uk/gneve.html
>> Wow.  I wouldn't be surprised if at some point integrated ext3/ext4
>> filesystem support is developed for emacs so that it doesn't need a
>> kernel anymore (just to reduce overhead).
>
> [Back in the era of a-couple-of-megabyte" machines, emacs
> was called "Eight megabytes always, continuously swapping."]

It was "Eight megabytes and constantly swapping".
Get your anti-Emacs memes right! :)

By the way, that 8mb memory usage looks pretty good now.
In fact, Emacs actually uses less RAM then gedit these days. :)

Michael


From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Mon Mar 23 23:44:35 2009
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Robert Meier)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 23:44:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Eight Megabytes ... Swapping [Was: Re: Video and Movie
	making tools.]
In-Reply-To: <49C7CC0C.306@gmail.com> (message from Aaron Kulkis on Mon, 23
	Mar 2009 13:51:08 -0400)
References: <151880.21384.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903202242320.2985@banana.sluggo.net>
	<b02c40e90903202015h510556f0v23264b7b92da1816@mail.gmail.com>
	<49C7CC0C.306@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090324034435.96C4220AAEC@starfox.local>

Aaron, Michael,

>> Wow.  I wouldn't be surprised if at some point integrated ext3/ext4
>> filesystem support is developed for emacs so that it doesn't need a
>> kernel anymore (just to reduce overhead).

Will you settle for ext2 support statically linked,
and kernel used as a "boot loader" (to mount)?
http://www.informatimago.com/linux/emacs-on-user-mode-linux.html.

> emacs and "reduce overhead"
> I never thought I would see "emacs" and "reduce overhead"
> in the same sentance
> [Back in the era of a-couple-of-megabyte" machines,
> emacs was called "[Eight megabytes and constantly swapping]."]

See <version>/etc/JOKES in your favorite emacs for many more acronyms
bash> rpm -qf /usr/share/emacs/21.3/etc/JOKES
emacs-21.3-206
(Upon further request from those who haven't already installed emacs,
 I'll post an editted list on mdlug or mdlug-discuss.)

Many years ago at college, as a wheel (i.e. sysadmin) for Tamalpais,
a VAX 11/780, I received an order from above directing removal of emacs
as a resource hog from all campus computers.  I delayed[*]
and instrumented emacs and vi (i.e. wrapped in scripts that recorded
who used them, when and for how long).  After a month(quarter?) I
presented the findings, comparing students in the same class using
emacs and vi.  The system load and terminal time correlated well
with vi and emacs use.  IIRC, The emacs users raised system load
~50% higher than vi users.  The emacs users consumed about 1/3 the
terminal time.  Emacs users clearly consumed less overall resources,
than their vi counterparts.  Emacs was soon reinstalled where it
had been removed, and added to all new installations.

[*] Such delay was much easier then,
as disobedience based on professional judgement
carried no significant risk of unemployment,
whether events proved right or wrong.
Anyone then who fired a pilot because he judged it unsafe
to save time flying through rather than around a thunderstorm,
would risk unemployment.

Remembering,
-- 
Bob

  "And now here is my secret, a very simple secret;
   it is only with the heart that one can see rightly,
   what is essential is invisible to the eye."
     -- Antoine de Saint-Exupery




From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 24 17:45:28 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 17:45:28 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Video and Movie making tools.
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0903232058340.3747@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <151880.21384.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903202242320.2985@banana.sluggo.net>	<b02c40e90903202015h510556f0v23264b7b92da1816@mail.gmail.com>	<49C7CC0C.306@gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903232058340.3747@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <49C95478.5000207@gmail.com>

Michael Corral wrote:
> 2009-03-23, Monsieur Aaron Kulkis a ecrit:
>> Jeff Hanson wrote:
>>> On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 10:42 PM, Michael Corral wrote:
>>>> I use Emacs for video editing: http://1010.co.uk/gneve.html
>>> Wow.  I wouldn't be surprised if at some point integrated ext3/ext4
>>> filesystem support is developed for emacs so that it doesn't need a
>>> kernel anymore (just to reduce overhead).
>> [Back in the era of a-couple-of-megabyte" machines, emacs
>> was called "Eight megabytes always, continuously swapping."]
> 
> It was "Eight megabytes and constantly swapping".
> Get your anti-Emacs memes right! :)
> 
> By the way, that 8mb memory usage looks pretty good now.
> In fact, Emacs actually uses less RAM then gedit these days. :)


akulkis@(none):~> which vi emacs
/usr/bin/vi
/usr/bin/emacs
akulkis@(none):~> ls -al /usr/bin/{vi,emacs}
-rwxr-xr-t 1 root root 8966472 2008-09-11 22:14 /usr/bin/emacs
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root       8 2009-03-15 04:50 /usr/bin/vi -> /bin/vim
akulkis@(none):~> ls -al /bin/vim /usr/bin/emacs
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root      21 2009-03-15 04:50 /bin/vim -> /etc/alternatives/vim
-rwxr-xr-t 1 root root 8966472 2008-09-11 22:14 /usr/bin/emacs
akulkis@(none):~> ls -al /etc/alternatives/vim /usr/bin/emacs
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root      21 2009-03-15 04:51 /etc/alternatives/vim -> /usr/bin/vim-enhanced
-rwxr-xr-t 1 root root 8966472 2008-09-11 22:14 /usr/bin/emacs
akulkis@(none):~> ls -al /usr/bin/vim-enhanced /usr/bin/emacs
-rwxr-xr-t 1 root root 8966472 2008-09-11 22:14 /usr/bin/emacs
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 2301169 2009-02-26 10:12 /usr/bin/vim-enhanced
akulkis@(none):~>
akulkis@(none):~> uname -a
Linux (none) 2.6.22.19-0.1-default #1 SMP 2008-10-14 22:17:43 +0200 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
akulkis@(none):~> file /usr/bin/vim-enhanced /usr/bin/emacs
/usr/bin/vim-enhanced: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.4, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not stripped
/usr/bin/emacs:        sticky ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.4, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped
akulkis@(none):~>

I wonder how big they are on 32-bit architecture.
  

I don't know if you remember an old line editor, called
ed (which seemed to have been closely related to "edit",
the line editor on IBM mainframes, as the basic commands
and syntax were identical).....


oh wow... scary.  Someone actually DID port ed to Linux.
akulkis@(none):~> which ed
/usr/bin/ed
akulkis@(none):~> ls -al /usr/bin/ed
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 7 2008-12-17 14:22 /usr/bin/ed -> /bin/ed
akulkis@(none):~> ls -al /bin/ed
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 56656 2007-09-21 15:12 /bin/ed
akulkis@(none):~>


I'm guessing that somewhere, someone wrote a shell-script
which used ed in a non-interactive manner, and it was
easier to recompile ed than to rewrite the shell
script to use ex (the line-editor personality of vi).


Heh... I love the shell prompt:
"Ed, Man!  "

Also, note the 1980's location of vi (like most apps
developed as part of the BSD project): /usr/ucb/bin/vi

http://www.geocities.com/kensanata/ed.html

From: patl at athena.mit.edu (Patrick J. LoPresti)
Message-ID: <1991Jul11.031731.9260 at athena.mit.edu>
Subject: The True Path (long)
Date: 11 Jul 91 03:17:31 GMT
Newsgroups: alt.religion.emacs,alt.slack
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

When I log into my Xenix system with my 110 baud teletype, both vi
*and* Emacs are just too damn slow.  They print useless messages like,
'C-h for help' and '"foo" File is read only'.  So I use the editor
that doesn't waste my VALUABLE time.

Ed, man!  !man ed

ED(1)               UNIX Programmer's Manual                ED(1)

NAME
     ed - text editor

SYNOPSIS
     ed [ - ] [ -x ] [ name ]
DESCRIPTION
     Ed is the standard text editor.
---

Computer Scientists love ed, not just because it comes first
alphabetically, but because it's the standard.  Everyone else loves ed
because it's ED!

"Ed is the standard text editor."

And ed doesn't waste space on my Timex Sinclair.  Just look:

-rwxr-xr-x  1 root          24 Oct 29  1929 /bin/ed
-rwxr-xr-t  4 root     1310720 Jan  1  1970 /usr/ucb/vi
-rwxr-xr-x  1 root  5.89824e37 Oct 22  1990 /usr/bin/emacs

Of course, on the system *I* administrate, vi is symlinked to ed.
Emacs has been replaced by a shell script which 1) Generates a syslog
message at level LOG_EMERG; 2) reduces the user's disk quota by 100K;
and 3) RUNS ED!!!!!!

"Ed is the standard text editor."

Let's look at a typical novice's session with the mighty ed:

golem> ed

?
help
?
?
?
quit
?
exit
?
bye
?
hello? 
?
eat flaming death
?
^C
?
^C
?
^D
?

---
Note the consistent user interface and error reportage.  Ed is
generous enough to flag errors, yet prudent enough not to overwhelm
the novice with verbosity.

"Ed is the standard text editor."

Ed, the greatest WYGIWYG editor of all.

ED IS THE TRUE PATH TO NIRVANA!  ED HAS BEEN THE CHOICE OF EDUCATED
AND IGNORANT ALIKE FOR CENTURIES!  ED WILL NOT CORRUPT YOUR PRECIOUS
BODILY FLUIDS!!  ED IS THE STANDARD TEXT EDITOR!  ED MAKES THE SUN
SHINE AND THE BIRDS SING AND THE GRASS GREEN!!

When I use an editor, I don't want eight extra KILOBYTES of worthless
help screens and cursor positioning code!  I just want an EDitor!!
Not a "viitor".  Not a "emacsitor".  Those aren't even WORDS!!!! ED!
ED! ED IS THE STANDARD!!!

TEXT EDITOR.

When IBM, in its ever-present omnipotence, needed to base their
"edlin" on a UNIX standard, did they mimic vi?  No.  Emacs?  Surely
you jest.  They chose the most karmic editor of all.  The standard.

Ed is for those who can *remember* what they are working on.  If you
are an idiot, you should use Emacs.  If you are an Emacs, you should
not be vi.  If you use ED, you are on THE PATH TO REDEMPTION.  THE
SO-CALLED "VISUAL" EDITORS HAVE BEEN PLACED HERE BY ED TO TEMPT THE
FAITHLESS.  DO NOT GIVE IN!!!  THE MIGHTY ED HAS SPOKEN!!!

?


From jbroughton at twmi.rr.com  Tue Mar 24 21:55:33 2009
From: jbroughton at twmi.rr.com (Jim Broughton)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:55:33 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Printing a lousy #$%^&* envelope.
Message-ID: <49C98F15.3030107@twmi.rr.com>

I have been a linux user for about 10 years. I have never tried
to print an envelope under Slackware Linux using KDE and Cups.
I may never try again. Total failure. I am quite angry.
 My printing system consists of a Brother 5150D postscript laser
printer accessed over the network via a netgear printserver.
 The printer has 1 tray for 8.5x11-14 paper and a fold out manual feed tray
for envelopes and the like. It never fails to print 8.5x11 documents some
even quite complex and duplexed as well.
  Try as I might I cannot get this system to print a lousy #10 commercial
envelope. I have used Openoffice 2.4, 3.0, Koffice writer, Adobe PDF reader
(after sending the output to a pdf from OOO or Koffice writer).  I have 
tried
printing it stright up with the selection for the printer set to #10 
envelope,
I have tried setting margins, rotating 360deg in 90deg incriments. Nothing.
The closest it came was Adobe PDF reader put something on the envelope but
whoever programmed the PDF converter for KDE and OOO did not force
embeded/outlined fonts so it just prints boxes where the letters should be.
This sucks. It should be a no brainer. Anyone else have problems with
printing envelopes under Linux?

Jim

 


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Mar 25 00:16:05 2009
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 00:16:05 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Printing a lousy #$%^&* envelope.
In-Reply-To: <49C98F15.3030107@twmi.rr.com>
References: <49C98F15.3030107@twmi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90903242116t36b45f4av88dd2bb7c7d0a705@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 9:55 PM, Jim Broughton <jbroughton at twmi.rr.com> wrote:
> I have been a linux user for about 10 years. I have never tried
> to print an envelope under Slackware Linux using KDE and Cups.
> I may never try again. Total failure. I am quite angry.

Haven't tried it myself.  I have used gLables to print self-adhesive
address labels using a CSV export from a Calc spreadsheet as input.


From driveray at ameritech.net  Wed Mar 25 04:48:49 2009
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 04:48:49 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Printing a lousy #$%^&* envelope.
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90903242116t36b45f4av88dd2bb7c7d0a705@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49C98F15.3030107@twmi.rr.com>
	<b02c40e90903242116t36b45f4av88dd2bb7c7d0a705@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49C9EFF1.5070206@ameritech.net>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 9:55 PM, Jim Broughton <jbroughton at twmi.rr.com> wrote:
>> I have been a linux user for about 10 years. I have never tried
>> to print an envelope under Slackware Linux using KDE and Cups.
>> I may never try again. Total failure. I am quite angry.
> 
> Haven't tried it myself.  I have used gLables to print self-adhesive
> address labels using a CSV export from a Calc spreadsheet as input.


I haven't tried either, but I think I would have tried printing it as a
simple word processor document, or more likely a spreadsheet. If I
understood you correctly you are trying to print *a* (single) envelope?
Also you are having no trouble using the fold out paper tray, perse?

It seems like, if you didn't mind sacrificing a few sheets of plain
paper, you could have gotten the text you wanted placed where you wanted
it, relative to the leading edge of the page, and then just run an
envelope instead of plain paper.

Failing that I think I would have printed the address on plain paper and
then cut it (with scissors) and pasted it (with paste) on the envelope.
Scotch tape and clear packing tape also do well for holding such
improvised labels in place.

This is still more work than it should be, but I think you would have
had your envelope in the end. But I feel your pain.

Ray


From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Wed Mar 25 03:26:27 2009
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Robert Meier)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 03:26:27 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Printing a lousy #$%^&* envelope
Message-ID: <200903250326.28318.list1c30fe42@bellsouth.net>

Jim, Jeff,

>> I have been a linux user for about 10 years. I have never tried
>> to print an envelope under Slackware Linux using KDE and Cups.
>> ... Anyone else have problems with printing envelopes under Linux?
> Haven't tried it myself.  I have used gLables to print self-adhesive
> address labels using a CSV export from a Calc spreadsheet as input.

Too lazy to write addresses on envelopes, I've been paying bills
with self-printed envelopes for years using SuSE.

I too use glabels, but most of my envelopes are still printed with
envelope-0.625.noarch.rpm , a perl program that writes a postscript program.  
(The lack of upgrade to 1.0.0 shows how solid it has been for me.)

>> The closest it came was Adobe PDF reader put something on the envelope
>> but  whoever programmed the PDF converter for KDE and OOO did not force
>> embeded/outlined fonts so it just prints boxes where the letters should be.

If you are using ghostscript for pdf converter, you may simply need to install
your X fonts in ghostscript.


"ghostscript and cups

Printer fonts are configured separately from X fonts.
A ghostscript file, Fontmap maps xfonts to postscript fonts.

bash> cat /usr/share/ghostscript/7.05/Fontmap
 ...
(Fontmap.local) .runlibfile
...
bash> cat /usr/share/ghostscript/7.05/Fontmap.local
...
/POSTNET (/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/local/POSTNET.ttf) ;
...

CUPS (Common Unix Printing System) usually calls ghostscript.
However most distros configure cups to use -dPARANOIDSAFER
to prohibit using anything (including fonts) not compiled into gs.
This must be changed to -dSAFER to add fonts.
bash> cat /usr/lib/cups/filter/pstoraster
...
gsopts ... -dSAFER ...
...
" 
   -- excerpt from "How to Install X Fonts"

# Configuration for my printer.
bash> cat ~/.enveloperc
# ~/.enveloperc

# This file is interpreted in PERL, so it is case sensitive
# lines beginning with a '#' and blank lines are ignored.
# All paper Attributes and Margin Units are in INCHES.


# ------------------------------- Paper Attributes
$normalpaper = 11       # Use your printer's page size here
$normalwidth = 8.5      # Printer's page width.
$ewidth = 9.5           # Envelope Width
$eheight = 5.125        # Envelope Height



# ------------------------------- Margins
# For printers that center the envelope on the feeder or put it all the way
# to the right, you will need to make the top margin larger.
# The $feedleft, $feedcenter, and $feedright variables should take care of
# this.  Just add the proper one to $topmargin.
$feedleft = 0
$feedright = $normalwidth - $eheight
$feedcenter = $normalwidth/2 - $eheight/2

$leftmargin = 0.35
$topmargin = 0.25



# ------------------------------- General Settings
$international=1# use international characters
$flipflop = 1   # print envelopes with flap on left
$shiplabel = 0  # print labels in a single column for easy shipping labels
$barcode = 1    # include POSTNET barcode for Zip or Zip+4?
$fromfile = ""  # file to load default return address from



# ------------------------------- Default Label Attributes
$line1 = "Times-Roman-Bold 12"  # Label font attributes, first line
$linex = "Times-Roman 12"       # Label font attributes, other lines


# ------------------------------- Default Return Address Attributes
$return1 = "Helvetica-Bold 10"  # same as above
$returnx = "Helvetica 10"       # same as above
$international = 1              # support international characters



# One of a collection of envelope descriptions:
bash> cat ~/etc/letters/envelope/MDLUG.envelope
[options]
$return1 = "Courier-Bold 10"
$returnx = "Courier 10"

[from]
  .~.   Metro Detroit Linux User's Group
  /V\\   c/o Robert Meier
 // \\\\  2.6 Torvald Ln.
/(   )\\ Rochester, MI  48307
 ^`~'^
[to]
Ann Arbor Science Fiction Association
c/o Stan Lee
19100 Computer Museum Rd.
Lapeer, MI  48446

# To print an envelope:
bash> envelope ~/etc/letters/envelope/MDLUG.envelope | lpr

-- 
Bob

  "Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it,
   and I shall move the world."
     -- Archimedes
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From gib at juno.com  Wed Mar 25 13:48:44 2009
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 17:48:44 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
Message-ID: <20090325.134844.4004.1@webmail19.vgs.untd.com>

 
The Compuware contract with Ford may be ending.  Many people are being taken off of the Ford account.  So, Ford will be bringing in replacements. 
____________________________________________________________
Click to get free auto insurance quotes from top companies.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/BLSrjnsHEaB93DecmLkZDgsuqWWTnlaR5LkUOFDdoIuCjEKrjwPMwxKdRM8/

From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 26 01:01:54 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 01:01:54 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
In-Reply-To: <20090325.134844.4004.1@webmail19.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20090325.134844.4004.1@webmail19.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <49CB0C42.1030402@gmail.com>

gib at juno.com wrote:
>  
> The Compuware contract with Ford may be ending.  Many people are being taken off of the Ford account.  So, Ford will be bringing in replacements. 

Better not be from Wipro -- if so, all of Michigan
should be up in arms... literally.



From rkannan at peoplepc.com  Wed Mar 25 11:09:14 2009
From: rkannan at peoplepc.com (R. Kannan)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 11:09:14 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
Subject: [mdlug] Printing a lousy #$%^&* envelope.
Message-ID: <20900243.1237993755356.JavaMail.root@elwamui-huard.atl.sa.earthlink.net>


I have been able to print envelopes from Open Office to a HP Deskjet HP610C fine. I am only printing one envelope at a time if that makes a difference.
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jim Broughton <jbroughton at twmi.rr.com>
>Sent: Mar 24, 2009 9:55 PM
>To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>Subject: [mdlug] Printing a lousy #$%^&* envelope.
>
>I have been a linux user for about 10 years. I have never tried
>to print an envelope under Slackware Linux using KDE and Cups.
>I may never try again. Total failure. I am quite angry.
> My printing system consists of a Brother 5150D postscript laser
>printer accessed over the network via a netgear printserver.
> The printer has 1 tray for 8.5x11-14 paper and a fold out manual feed tray
>for envelopes and the like. It never fails to print 8.5x11 documents some
>even quite complex and duplexed as well.
>  Try as I might I cannot get this system to print a lousy #10 commercial
>envelope. I have used Openoffice 2.4, 3.0, Koffice writer, Adobe PDF reader
>(after sending the output to a pdf from OOO or Koffice writer).  I have 
>tried
>printing it stright up with the selection for the printer set to #10 
>envelope,
>I have tried setting margins, rotating 360deg in 90deg incriments. Nothing.
>The closest it came was Adobe PDF reader put something on the envelope but
>whoever programmed the PDF converter for KDE and OOO did not force
>embeded/outlined fonts so it just prints boxes where the letters should be.
>This sucks. It should be a no brainer. Anyone else have problems with
>printing envelopes under Linux?
>
>Jim
>
> 
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com


From micorral at comcast.net  Thu Mar 26 02:05:01 2009
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 02:05:01 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Printing a lousy #$%^&* envelope.
In-Reply-To: <49C98F15.3030107@twmi.rr.com>
References: <49C98F15.3030107@twmi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0903260202390.8320@banana.sluggo.net>

2009-03-24, Monsieur Jim Broughton a ecrit:
> My printing system consists of a Brother 5150D postscript laser
> printer accessed over the network via a netgear printserver.
> The printer has 1 tray for 8.5x11-14 paper and a fold out manual feed tray
> for envelopes and the like. It never fails to print 8.5x11 documents some
> even quite complex and duplexed as well.
[snip]
> This sucks. It should be a no brainer. Anyone else have problems with
> printing envelopes under Linux?

No problem here. I can print envelopes just fine in Fedora.
Here's a pic of how I printed a standard (C10) business envelope just
now, in StarOffice:
http://home.comcast.net/~micorral/envelope.png

In the Properties dialog, in the Device tab I set Manual Feed to True.
I started the whole thing by going to
File->New->Templates and Documents->Templates->Personal Correspondence
and Documents->Envelope.
For OpenOffice there should be something similar.

For my printer (HP Laserjet 4plus, via JetDirect), I have to push a bit
on the edge of the envelope to make sure the manual feeder grabs it. It
prints perfectly.

Michael


From z_mikowski at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 26 02:17:54 2009
From: z_mikowski at yahoo.com (Michael S. Mikowski)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 23:17:54 -0700
Subject: [mdlug] Printing a lousy #$%^&* envelope.
In-Reply-To: <49C98F15.3030107@twmi.rr.com>
References: <49C98F15.3030107@twmi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <200903252317.54550.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>

Ran into this today with my wife, who was getting frustrated.

She was trying to create an envelope use the 'insert envelope' option in 
writer.  This proved buggy.  This on an hp6310, which has excellent support in 
Linux (which is why I bought it!)

Here is what worked for OOo 2.4.  YMMV:
0. Skip 'insert envelope'.  Simply create a new document.

1. Pick format->page->page tab and under Format pick Env. #10, choose 
Landscape orientation.

2. Fill in your envelope

3. Print envelope.  In the printing dialog, click on 'Properties', and:
x paper size should show Env. #10
x leave orientation as protrait
x leave duplex as off
! On Paper Tray, pick envelope feeder.

Press ok and print.  Hopefully this will work for you!

Cheers, Mike





On Tuesday 24 March 2009 18:55:33 Jim Broughton wrote:
> l failure. I am quite angry.
>  My printing system consists of a Brother 5150D postscript laser
> printer accessed over the network via a netgear printserver.
>  The printer has 1 tray for 8.5x11-14 paper and a fold out manual feed tray
> for envelopes and the like. It never fails to print 8.5x11 documents some
> even quite complex and duplexed as well.
>   Try as I might I cannot get this system to print a lousy #10 commercial
> envelope. I have used Openoffice 2.4, 3.0, Koffice writer, Adobe PDF reader
> (after sending the output to a pdf from OOO or Koffice writer).  I have
> tried
> printing it stright up with the selection for the printer set to #10
> envelope,
> I have tried setting margins, rotating 360deg in 90deg incriments. Nothing.
> The closest it came was Adobe PDF reader put something on the envelope but
> whoever programmed the PDF converter for KDE and OOO did not force
> embeded/outlined fonts so it just prints boxes where the letters should be.
> This sucks. It should be a no brainer. Anyone else have problems with
> printing envelopes under Linux?
>
> Jim



From peter at petertheplumber.net  Thu Mar 26 03:23:05 2009
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 03:23:05 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Printing a lousy #$%^&* envelope.
In-Reply-To: <200903252317.54550.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>
References: <49C98F15.3030107@twmi.rr.com>
	<200903252317.54550.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1238052185.26042.291.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

On Wed, 2009-03-25 at 23:17 -0700, Michael S. Mikowski wrote:
> Ran into this today with my wife, who was getting frustrated.
> 
> She was trying to create an envelope use the 'insert envelope' option in 
> writer.  This proved buggy.  This on an hp6310, which has excellent support in 
> Linux (which is why I bought it!)

	I'm not so sure it's the fault of the printer. I have a Brother HL404cn
and it took me a few minutes using OO 3.0.1. It's never been easy.


> 
> Here is what worked for OOo 2.4.  YMMV:
> 0. Skip 'insert envelope'.  Simply create a new document.
> 
> 1. Pick format->page->page tab and under Format pick Env. #10, choose 
> Landscape orientation.
> 
> 2. Fill in your envelope
> 
> 3. Print envelope.  In the printing dialog, click on 'Properties', and:
> x paper size should show Env. #10
> x leave orientation as protrait
> x leave duplex as off
> ! On Paper Tray, pick envelope feeder.
> 

	Interesting, if I do that then the text goes the wrong way on the
envelope.


> On Tuesday 24 March 2009 18:55:33 Jim Broughton wrote:
> > l failure. I am quite angry.
> >  My printing system consists of a Brother 5150D postscript laser
> > printer accessed over the network via a netgear printserver.
> >  The printer has 1 tray for 8.5x11-14 paper and a fold out manual feed tray
> > for envelopes and the like. It never fails to print 8.5x11 documents some
> > even quite complex and duplexed as well.
> >   Try as I might I cannot get this system to print a lousy #10 commercial
> > envelope. I have used Openoffice 2.4, 3.0, Koffice writer, Adobe PDF reader
> > (after sending the output to a pdf from OOO or Koffice writer).  I have
> > tried
> > printing it stright up with the selection for the printer set to #10
> > envelope,
> > I have tried setting margins, rotating 360deg in 90deg incriments. Nothing.
> > The closest it came was Adobe PDF reader put something on the envelope but
> > whoever programmed the PDF converter for KDE and OOO did not force
> > embeded/outlined fonts so it just prints boxes where the letters should be.
> > This sucks. It should be a no brainer. Anyone else have problems with
> > printing envelopes under Linux?
> >

	I do so feel your pain. It's just one of those things. Here's what I
did. Bear in mind I'm also using a Brother with a fold out paper tray,
when the guides are adjusted the envelope sits in the middle. The side
to be printed is up and the flap is to the left. <Insert> <Envelope>,
under the format tab Addressee position from left set to 4.28" and from
top 2.08". Sender position from left set to 0.39" and from top 0.39".
Size format is Env. 10 which should be 9.50" x 4.13". Under the printer
tab, envelope orientation it shows me several different pictograms. I
use the one showing the envelope feeding with the short edge, and to the
far right of the ?tray?. Yes I know mine feeds in the middle. I select
print from bottom and shift right 1.50" and shift down 2.00". All those
settings appear to be saved so you shouldn't have to enter them again.
Just click insert envelope; fill in sender and recipient; and you're
there.

<soapbox warning>
	Do I feel that I should be able to select a No 10 envelope, how I feed
my envelope and be done. Certainly! But I don't know what has to go on
behind the scenes for that to happen. I just had the pleasure of setting
up; hopefully correctly; a dual boot XP/Linux notebook. XP did not
recognize anything, including the sata hard drive and the Realtek
ethernet adapter. I'd much rather spend my time formatting an envelope
than loading drivers! 

Best Regards,
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
Peter The Plumber



From z_mikowski at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 26 04:15:46 2009
From: z_mikowski at yahoo.com (Michael S. Mikowski)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 01:15:46 -0700
Subject: [mdlug] Printing a lousy #$%^&* envelope.
In-Reply-To: <1238052185.26042.291.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
References: <49C98F15.3030107@twmi.rr.com>
	<200903252317.54550.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>
	<1238052185.26042.291.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <200903260115.46881.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>

On Thursday 26 March 2009 00:23:05 Peter Bart wrote:
> On Wed, 2009-03-25 at 23:17 -0700, Michael S. Mikowski wrote:
> > Ran into this today with my wife, who was getting frustrated.
> >
> > She was trying to create an envelope use the 'insert envelope' option in
> > writer.  This proved buggy.  This on an hp6310, which has excellent
> > support in Linux (which is why I bought it!)

> 	I'm not so sure it's the fault of the printer. I have a Brother HL404cn
> and it took me a few minutes using OO 3.0.1. It's never been easy.

Agreed.

> > Here is what worked for OOo 2.4.  YMMV:
> > 0. Skip 'insert envelope'.  Simply create a new document.
> >
> > 1. Pick format->page->page tab and under Format pick Env. #10, choose
> > Landscape orientation.
> >
> > 2. Fill in your envelope
> >
> > 3. Print envelope.  In the printing dialog, click on 'Properties', and:
> > x paper size should show Env. #10
> > x leave orientation as protrait
> > x leave duplex as off
> > ! On Paper Tray, pick envelope feeder.
>
> 	Interesting, if I do that then the text goes the wrong way on the
> envelope.

That is what my wife was seeing too, assuming you mean 90 degrees off.  Perhaps 
in OOo3.01 one might need to change the orientation on the print dialog.  But 
leaving it in portrait mode is what worked in OOo2.4. 

Cheers, Mike


From radkins at impelind.com  Thu Mar 26 09:07:02 2009
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:07:02 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
In-Reply-To: <49CB0C42.1030402@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090326133348.C3DFDC0D3@impelind.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Kulkis
> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 1:02 AM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
> 
> gib at juno.com wrote:
> >  
> > The Compuware contract with Ford may be ending.  Many 
> people are being taken off of the Ford account.  So, Ford 
> will be bringing in replacements. 
> 
> Better not be from Wipro -- if so, all of Michigan should be 
> up in arms... literally.
> 

  This could be opening up a can of worms, but why?

  I do not know anything of this Wipro you speak of.

	-Rob



From micorral at comcast.net  Wed Mar 25 01:19:33 2009
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 01:19:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Printing a lousy #$%^&* envelope.
In-Reply-To: <49C98F15.3030107@twmi.rr.com>
References: <49C98F15.3030107@twmi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0903250101230.5778@banana.sluggo.net>

2009-03-24, Monsieur Jim Broughton a ecrit:
> My printing system consists of a Brother 5150D postscript laser
> printer accessed over the network via a netgear printserver.
> The printer has 1 tray for 8.5x11-14 paper and a fold out manual feed tray
> for envelopes and the like. It never fails to print 8.5x11 documents some
> even quite complex and duplexed as well.
[snip]
> This sucks. It should be a no brainer. Anyone else have problems with
> printing envelopes under Linux?

No problem here. I can print envelopes just fine in Fedora.
Here's a pic of how I printed a standard (C10) business envelope just
now, in StarOffice:
http://home.comcast.net/~micorral/envelope.png

In the Properties dialog, in the Device tab I set Manual Feed to True.
I started the whole thing by going to
File->New->Templates and Documents->Templates->Personal Correspondence
and Documents->Envelope.
For OpenOffice there should be something similar.

For my printer (HP Laserjet 4plus, via JetDirect), I have to push a bit
on the edge of the envelope to make sure the manual feeder grabs it. It
prints perfectly.

Michael


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Thu Mar 26 11:04:08 2009
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:04:08 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Printing a lousy #$%^&* envelope.
In-Reply-To: <200903260115.46881.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>
References: <49C98F15.3030107@twmi.rr.com>
	<200903252317.54550.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>
	<1238052185.26042.291.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
	<200903260115.46881.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1238079848.26042.304.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

On Thu, 2009-03-26 at 01:15 -0700, Michael S. Mikowski wrote:
> On Thursday 26 March 2009 00:23:05 Peter Bart wrote:
> > On Wed, 2009-03-25 at 23:17 -0700, Michael S. Mikowski wrote:
> > > Ran into this today with my wife, who was getting frustrated.
> > >
> > > She was trying to create an envelope use the 'insert envelope' option in
> > > writer.  
> 
> > > Here is what worked for OOo 2.4.  YMMV:
> > > 0. Skip 'insert envelope'.  Simply create a new document.
> > >
> > > 1. Pick format->page->page tab and under Format pick Env. #10, choose
> > > Landscape orientation.
> > >
> > > 2. Fill in your envelope
> > >
> > > 3. Print envelope.  In the printing dialog, click on 'Properties', and:
> > > x paper size should show Env. #10
> > > x leave orientation as protrait
> > > x leave duplex as off
> > > ! On Paper Tray, pick envelope feeder.
> >
> > 	Interesting, if I do that then the text goes the wrong way on the
> > envelope.
> 
> That is what my wife was seeing too, assuming you mean 90 degrees off.  Perhaps 
> in OOo3.01 one might need to change the orientation on the print dialog.  But 
> leaving it in portrait mode is what worked in OOo2.4. 

	Yes, 90 deg off. If I change it to landscape, then I can't feed my
envelope. Hmmm, I know I should be able to but it's not working for me
this way. Regardless; once I had it set up to print using <Insert>
<Envelope>; OO places the sender and recipient fields automatically. The
data stays from the last time I used it, so I don't have to fill in my
information. It did take me seven envelopes, the same or more pieces of
scrap paper and about an hour though.

Best Regards,
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
Peter The Plumber



From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 26 11:10:33 2009
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 08:10:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Printing a lousy #$%^&* envelope.
In-Reply-To: <1238079848.26042.304.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
References: <49C98F15.3030107@twmi.rr.com>
	<200903252317.54550.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>
	<1238052185.26042.291.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
	<200903260115.46881.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>
	<1238079848.26042.304.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <83404.80877.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

When printing in OO I normally do a blank test sheet on plain paper.? That will let me know how things will turn out.

David C. Lane 



________________________________
From: Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
To: MDLUG Main List <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 11:04:08 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Printing a lousy #$%^&* envelope.

On Thu, 2009-03-26 at 01:15 -0700, Michael S. Mikowski wrote:
> On Thursday 26 March 2009 00:23:05 Peter Bart wrote:
> > On Wed, 2009-03-25 at 23:17 -0700, Michael S. Mikowski wrote:
> > > Ran into this today with my wife, who was getting frustrated.
> > >
> > > She was trying to create an envelope use the 'insert envelope' option in
> > > writer.? 
> 
> > > Here is what worked for OOo 2.4.? YMMV:
> > > 0. Skip 'insert envelope'.? Simply create a new document.
> > >
> > > 1. Pick format->page->page tab and under Format pick Env. #10, choose
> > > Landscape orientation.
> > >
> > > 2. Fill in your envelope
> > >
> > > 3. Print envelope.? In the printing dialog, click on 'Properties', and:
> > > x paper size should show Env. #10
> > > x leave orientation as protrait
> > > x leave duplex as off
> > > ! On Paper Tray, pick envelope feeder.
> >
> > ??? Interesting, if I do that then the text goes the wrong way on the
> > envelope.
> 
> That is what my wife was seeing too, assuming you mean 90 degrees off.? Perhaps 
> in OOo3.01 one might need to change the orientation on the print dialog.? But 
> leaving it in portrait mode is what worked in OOo2.4. 

??? Yes, 90 deg off. If I change it to landscape, then I can't feed my
envelope. Hmmm, I know I should be able to but it's not working for me
this way. Regardless; once I had it set up to print using <Insert>
<Envelope>; OO places the sender and recipient fields automatically. The
data stays from the last time I used it, so I don't have to fill in my
information. It did take me seven envelopes, the same or more pieces of
scrap paper and about an hour though.

Best Regards,
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
Peter The Plumber

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      

From peter at petertheplumber.net  Thu Mar 26 11:14:50 2009
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:14:50 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
In-Reply-To: <20090326133348.C3DFDC0D3@impelind.com>
References: <20090326133348.C3DFDC0D3@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <1238080490.26042.310.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

On Thu, 2009-03-26 at 09:07 -0400, Robert Adkins wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> > [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Kulkis
> > Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 1:02 AM
> > To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> > Subject: Re: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
> > 
> > gib at juno.com wrote:
> > >  
> > > The Compuware contract with Ford may be ending.  Many 
> > people are being taken off of the Ford account.  So, Ford 
> > will be bringing in replacements. 
> > 
> > Better not be from Wipro -- if so, all of Michigan should be 
> > up in arms... literally.
> > 
> 
>   This could be opening up a can of worms, but why?
> 
>   I do not know anything of this Wipro you speak of.

	I'm guessing because it's a very large Indian owned company. Having
just spent way to much time on the phone to India sorting out an ATT dsl
outage, I would agree.

Best Regards
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
Peter The Plumber



From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 26 11:23:49 2009
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 08:23:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
In-Reply-To: <1238080490.26042.310.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
References: <20090326133348.C3DFDC0D3@impelind.com>
	<1238080490.26042.310.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <299598.70007.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I have to share that there are IT opening in Colleges and Universities, I 
Have been working in education for years.? 

I know there is a stigma that Education Admin tech is not cutting edge,
Yes but I have been employed during the hard time.? 

David C. Lane





________________________________
From: Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 11:14:50 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available

On Thu, 2009-03-26 at 09:07 -0400, Robert Adkins wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> > [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Kulkis
> > Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 1:02 AM
> > To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> > Subject: Re: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
> > 
> > gib at juno.com wrote:
> > >? 
> > > The Compuware contract with Ford may be ending.? Many 
> > people are being taken off of the Ford account.? So, Ford 
> > will be bringing in replacements. 
> > 
> > Better not be from Wipro -- if so, all of Michigan should be 
> > up in arms... literally.
> > 
> 
>? This could be opening up a can of worms, but why?
> 
>? I do not know anything of this Wipro you speak of.

??? I'm guessing because it's a very large Indian owned company. Having
just spent way to much time on the phone to India sorting out an ATT dsl
outage, I would agree.

Best Regards
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
Peter The Plumber

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      

From peter at petertheplumber.net  Thu Mar 26 11:36:11 2009
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:36:11 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
In-Reply-To: <299598.70007.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20090326133348.C3DFDC0D3@impelind.com>
	<1238080490.26042.310.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
	<299598.70007.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1238081771.26042.323.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

On Thu, 2009-03-26 at 08:23 -0700, David Lane wrote:
> I have to share that there are IT opening in Colleges and
> Universities, I 
> Have been working in education for years.  
>  
> I know there is a stigma that Education Admin tech is not cutting
> edge,
> Yes but I have been employed during the hard time.  
>  
> 
	It's better than some other stigmas you could have ;) Having an income
stream here and now would be a good thing. 

Best Regards,

-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
Peter The Plumber



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 26 12:16:11 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 12:16:11 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
In-Reply-To: <20090326133348.C3DFDC0D3@impelind.com>
References: <20090326133348.C3DFDC0D3@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <49CBAA4B.8080508@gmail.com>

Robert Adkins wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
>> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Kulkis
>> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 1:02 AM
>> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
>> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
>>
>> gib at juno.com wrote:
>>>  
>>> The Compuware contract with Ford may be ending.  Many 
>> people are being taken off of the Ford account.  So, Ford 
>> will be bringing in replacements. 
>>
>> Better not be from Wipro -- if so, all of Michigan should be 
>> up in arms... literally.
>>
> 
>   This could be opening up a can of worms, but why?
> 
>   I do not know anything of this Wipro you speak of.

You've heard stories of people being told that they're
going to be layed off, and that their separation benefits
are dependent upon training their replacements from India?

In almost all cases, that's Wipro.  They are the number
one abuser of the H1-B visa program.

About 10 years ago, when I first heard that the H1-B program
was being abused, I didn't believe it...but then I started
seeing more and more evidence that supports the accusation.
It's being used to displace American IT workers, not
supplement, which is the purpose of the program.




From radkins at impelind.com  Thu Mar 26 12:13:47 2009
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 12:13:47 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
In-Reply-To: <49CBAA4B.8080508@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090326164034.38917C0D3@impelind.com>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Kulkis
> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 12:16 PM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
> 
> Robert Adkins wrote:
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org
> >> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Kulkis
> >> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 1:02 AM
> >> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> >> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
> >>
> >> gib at juno.com wrote:
> >>>  
> >>> The Compuware contract with Ford may be ending.  Many
> >> people are being taken off of the Ford account.  So, Ford will be 
> >> bringing in replacements.
> >>
> >> Better not be from Wipro -- if so, all of Michigan should be up in 
> >> arms... literally.
> >>
> > 
> >   This could be opening up a can of worms, but why?
> > 
> >   I do not know anything of this Wipro you speak of.
> 
> You've heard stories of people being told that they're going 
> to be layed off, and that their separation benefits are 
> dependent upon training their replacements from India?
> 
> In almost all cases, that's Wipro.  They are the number one 
> abuser of the H1-B visa program.
> 
> About 10 years ago, when I first heard that the H1-B program 
> was being abused, I didn't believe it...but then I started 
> seeing more and more evidence that supports the accusation.
> It's being used to displace American IT workers, not 
> supplement, which is the purpose of the program.
> 

  Thank you. To talk more of this would be sliding deep into politics and
this is not the place to do that.

  -Rob



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 26 13:41:28 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 13:41:28 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
In-Reply-To: <20090326133348.C3DFDC0D3@impelind.com>
References: <20090326133348.C3DFDC0D3@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <49CBBE48.4010006@gmail.com>

Robert Adkins wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
>> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Kulkis
>> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 1:02 AM
>> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
>> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
>>
>> gib at juno.com wrote:
>>>  
>>> The Compuware contract with Ford may be ending.  Many 
>> people are being taken off of the Ford account.  So, Ford 
>> will be bringing in replacements. 
>>
>> Better not be from Wipro -- if so, all of Michigan should be 
>> up in arms... literally.
>>
> 
>   This could be opening up a can of worms, but why?
> 
>   I do not know anything of this Wipro you speak of.

You've heard stories of people being told that they're
going to be layed off, and that their separation benefits
are dependent upon training their replacements from India?

In almost all cases, that's Wipro or a similar company.
They are the number one abuser of the H1-B visa program,
using it to displace citizens, which is in contradiction
with U.S. law.

About 10 years ago, when I first heard that the H1-B program
was being abused, I didn't believe it...but then I started
seeing more and more evidence that supports the accusation.
It's being used to displace American IT workers, not
supplement, which is the purpose of the program.


Watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU

	Immigration attorneys from Cohen & Grigsby explains how
	they assist employers in running classified ads with the
	goal of NOT finding any qualified applicants, and the
	steps they go through to disqualify even the most
	qualified Americans in order to secure green cards for
	H-1b workers. See what Bush and Congress really mean by a
	"shortage of skilled U.S. workers." Microsoft, Oracle,
	Hewlett-Packard, and thousands of other companies are
	running fake ads in Sunday newspapers across the country
	each week.

	[This was originally put up by the law firm advocating
	this illegal (fraud) tactic themselves]

	Lawrence M. Lebowitz, VP of Marketing - Cohen & Grigsby
	giving a presentation on how to specifically AVOID getting
	any annoying job Applications by U.S. citizens so as to
	(fraudulently -- by conducting an employee search in bad
	faith) justify applying for H1-B slots.


Recently, an economic official in the Indian government
made a statement that they consider cramming as many
of their own citizens into our H1-B program to be an
essential part of the Indian government's long term
economic plan (for one, they are bringing back a large
body of knowledge of both business practices AND also
every project outsourced to India becomes one in which
the Indian engineers gain enough knowledge about it to
take off and replicate the project themselves -- Motorola
recently (and STUPIDLY, I might add)  got burned doing
this.  Idiot managers trying to save a few $, or inflate
the headcount of subordinates on their resumes)


ICE crackdowns are starting  (finally after 10 years!)

www.ice.gov/pi/nr/0902/090212desmoines.htm

	The H-1B Fraud Rate: Over 20%, Says USCIS
	For those just joining us, the H-1B program is
	a provision in U.S. immigration law which brings
	65,000 educated workers (mostly tech guys from
	India) to the U.S. each year, with regulatory
	restrictions in place to ensure:

	1. H-1Bs can only be hired for jobs where 'no
	qualified American can be found' and
	2. H-1Bs must be paid market rates so as not
	to depress tech salaries.

	Critics argue neither provision ever gets enforced,
	and in practice H-1Bs compete directly against
	American citizens at cut-rate prices, making life
	miserable for IT workers.

        [SMOKING GUN HERE:]
	The issue leaped back into the spotlight when Senator
	Chuck Grassley (R-IA) called Microsoft (MSFT) on the
	carpet for advocating for an expansion of the H-1B
	program mere weeks before beginning thousands of
	company-wide layoffs.

	[Here we are in the midst of a recession, in which
	IT talent has around a 10% unemployment rate, and
	this year's H1-B allotment was, as usual, consumed
	in ONE DAY].



Fortunately, enforcement is starting to take place:


Federal government started doing investigations about 2
years ago; arrests are starting to take place:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/bw/20090311/bs_bw/mar2009db20090310197597
	[excerpt]

	Part of that growth includes the U.S. headquarters of
	Pacific West, an IT consulting firm that employs both
	U.S. and H-1B visa workers from overseas. It is
	there, in a nondescript six-story office building at
	2600 Aurora Ave., that dozens of skilled workers,
	mostly from India, were supposed to be working in
	2004 and 2005.

	But according to a federal lawsuit filed on Dec. 16 in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Iowa, some of those who came to work for Pacific West didn't get to enjoy the town's charms, or the computer programing or engineering jobs they expected to fill. A federal grand jury charges that in fact many of the workers wound up on the East and West coasts, working for companies that had nothing to do with technology.

	Coordinated Federal Investigation

	Two Pacific West executives, Vishnu Reddy and Chockalingam Palaniappan -- also referred to as "Chuck Pal" in court documents -- are charged with filing false documents with the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services and U.S. Labor Dept. to take advantage of the lower wage requirements in Iowa.

	Critics of the worker-visa system have long claimed
	it is gamed by companies to replace skilled U.S.
	workers with lower-paid foreigners. But the
	allegations against executives at Pacific West -- as
	well as those at four other companies under
	investigation -- reveal the mechanics of a specific
	scheme that allegedly allowed employers to
	fraudulently cheat H-1B visa workers of their proper
	wage rates. Lawsuits have been brought against
	individual companies for H-1B visa fraud in the past,
	but allegations against Pacific West and other
	Iowa-based companies point to what may have become a
	common scheme to underpay H-1B visa workers by
	misrepresenting their geographic work location.

	[Translation: Violating the relavent immigration law,
	they were paying the H1-B workers BELOW the 50th
	percentile/prevailing wage rate -- which means that
	they weren't brought in for any specific skill, but
	just so management could reduce payroll costs].

	Details of this alleged fraud emerged as the U.S.
	Attorney for the Southern District of Iowa announced
	the arrest of 13 people in six states connected with
	five IT services companies, and the indictment of one
	company, Vision Systems Group, following a
	coordinated federal investigation. Vision Systems
	Group was ordered to forfeit $7.4 million that it
	allegedly obtained through fraudulent means. Three
	other technology companies -- Worldwide Software
	Services and Sana Systems, both based in Clinton,
	Iowa; and Venurisoft of Clive, Iowa -- remain under
	investigation for document fraud, prosecutors said.
	Vision Systems Group, Worldwide Software Services,
	and Sana Systems did not return phone calls and
	e-mail messages seeking comment.



www.ice.gov/pi/nr/0902/090212desmoines.htm

(excerpt below)

	Federal authorities, with assistance from state
	and local law 	enforcement, served search
	warrants at addresses in Urbandale and Clive,
	Iowa; in Santa Clara, Rancho Cucamonga and
	Arcadia, Calif.; and in South Plainfield, N.J.

	This investigation involves companies that sponsor
	primarily H-1B non-immigrants, or temporary workers
	in specialty occupations that require a particular
	expertise. The companies that are the subject of
	this investigation have asserted that the foreign
	workers have been brought to the U.S. to fill
	existing vacancies. However, the companies allegedly
	have not always had jobs available for these workers,
	thereby placing them in non-pay status after they
	arrive in the United States. In some cases, the
	foreign workers have allegedly been placed in jobs
	and locations not previously certified by the
	Department of Labor, displacing qualified American
	workers and violating prevailing wage laws.

	The companies and foreign workers have allegedly
	submitted false statements and documents in support
	of their visa petitions. The false statements and
	documents were mailed or wired to state and federal
	agencies in support of the visa applications. The
	companies are suspected of visa fraud, mail fraud,
	wire fraud, money laundering and conspiracy.

	"The foreign labor certification programs are
	designed to permit U.S. employers to hire foreign
	workers to fill jobs essential to American
	businesses," said Daniel R. Petrole, deputy
	inspector general, U.S. Department of Labor.
	"Our agency remains resolute in its commitment
	with its law enforcement partners to investigate
	fraud committed against these Department of Labor
	programs."

	U.S. businesses use the H-1B program to employ
	foreign workers in specialty occupations that
	require theoretical or technical expertise in
	specialized fields, such as scientists, engineers,
	or computer programmers. As part of the H-1B
	program, the Department of Homeland Security (DHS)
	and the Department of Labor (DOL) require U.S.
	employers to meet specific labor conditions to
	ensure that American workers are not adversely
	impacted, while the DOL's Wage and Hour Division
	safeguards the treatment and compensation of H-1B
	workers. Congress sets a numerical cap for the
	admission of skilled workers into the U.S. The
	current H-1B cap is set at 65,000 visas per
	fiscal year. H-1B aliens can work in the United
	States for three years, with an option for an
	additional three years (for a maximum of six years).

	Those arrested Wednesday by ICE agents include:

	1. Shiva Neeli, arrested in Boston, Mass.;
		charged with conspiracy and mail fraud.
	2. Ramakrishna Maguluri, arrested in Atlanta, Ga.;
		charged with conspiracy and mail fraud.
	3. Villiappan Subbaiah, arrested in Dallas, Texas;
		charged with conspiracy and mail fraud.
	4. Suresh Pola, arrested in Pennsylvania;
		charged with conspiracy and mail fraud.
	5. Vishnu Reddy, arrested in Los Angeles, Calif.;
		charged with conspiracy, mail fraud and
		wire fraud.
	6. Chockalingam Palaniappan, arrested in San Jose,
		Calif.; charged with conspiracy, mail fraud
		and wire fraud.
	7. Vijay Myneni, arrested in San Jose, Calif.;
		charged with conspiracy and mail fraud.
	8. Venkata Guduru, arrested in New Jersey;
		charged with conspiracy and mail fraud.
	9. Praveen Andapally, arrested in New Jersey;
		charged with conspiracy, mail fraud,
		wire fraud, and making false statements
		in an immigration matter.
	10. Amit Justa, arrested in New Jersey; charged
		with conspiracy and mail fraud.
	11. Karambir Yadav, arrested in Louisville, Ky.;
		charged with conspiracy and mail fraud.

Other cases


http://www.happyschoolsblog.com/7-arrested-h1b-visa-fraud/

http://www.clintonherald.com/homepage/local_story_043100615.html?keyword=leadpicturestory

http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=24114

Newjersey followed by Mass now - few more people arrested for immigration fraud
Federal, state and local authorities are tightening the noose on H1-B fraud schemes in the United States, where the Customs and Immigration Service claims 1 in 5 H1-B visas are obtained under false pretenses. New Jersey and Massachusetts are the most recent focus of H1-B fraud scams.


http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Government-...SM03032009STR3

In the scheme, four men were charged Dec. 4 with producing
documents falsely stating that H1-B visa applicants had a
job with the Commonwealth when, in fact, they did not.
Richard Schwartz, a now former Massachusetts' employee,
signed the documents and is charged with one count of
visa fraud, which brings penalties of up to five years
in prison time and a $250,000 fine.

Sridhar Reddy, Sudha Rani and Venkat Naidu are also charged
with one count of visa fraud. Reddy and Rani face additional
charges of visa fraud totalling up to 15 years of prison. 



----
Some additional ideas on how to make this program almost or 100% fraud free. All H1B/L1B applicants will have to clear exams like TOEFL/GRE/GMAT/SAT or something on their lines and score above a certain number. Only then will they get a visa. Of course, it goes along with other stringent measures proposed like proof of a "genuine" job et al. To avoid fraud, the exams should be conducted like they are with an F1 so no one can game the system by having someone else appear for the exam. This way the pseudo-IT frauds (like the ones who did NIIT after BA/BSc) will be vetted and thrown out in the application stage itself. I am not being arrogant here but I'm also tired of being categorized with these people inspite of having a Computer Engineering degree (4-YEAR) from a reputed college.

I myself have appeared for one of these exams and scored well. So I am not scared of these, neither should be the genuine candidates. What say?

---

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/03/fbi-arrests-dc.html

	FBI Arrests DC Official

	March 12, 2009 11:23 AM

	Before the crack of dawn Thursday morning, more than
	a half-dozen cars and SUVs full of FBI agents pulled
	up to the northwest, Washington, DC, home of Yusuf
	Acar, the head of IT Technology in the Washington
	DC city government's Office of the Chief Technology
	Officer.

	The FBI agents, wearing bullet proof vests, presented
	a search warrant to Acar, handcuffed him and arrested
	him.

	They then began searching his home. Acar's
	mother-in-law came to take away his three young
	children while his wife remained in their house.

	Also this morning, agents began searching the office
	of the Chief Technology Officer.

	Vivek Kundra -- who last week was appointed Chief
	Information Officer by the Obama administration -- is
	Acar's former boss, having served as the city's Chief
	Technology Officer until early February.

	No other information was forthcoming from the FBI.

	-- jpt
	User Comments

	I'm from India and would not give a second thought
	on the involvement of Mr.Kundra in this bribery. It's
	the way we spoiled our country and its disheartening
	to know that these people are spreading this epidemic
	all over the world. If the one that gave bribe is an
	indian, for sure he would have given it taking this
	guy into "consideration".

	Please don't deport them back to India. They will
	bribe here and become free.

	We already have enough corrupt politicians and
	businessmen. WE DON'T NEED MORE.


Widespread resume "enhancement" has been a characteristic of H1-B abuse, and oftentimes disastrous off-shore outsourcing projects involving India and IT.  Then comes THIS:

http://seeker.dice.com/olc/thread.jspa?messageID=96313
	I found my resume with another person's name on it.

	I have heard of this, and even dealt with some *ahem*
	offshore individuals trying to game the interview
	process for gathering marketplace information.
	But I never thought I would see an *ahem* offshore
	name using my resume.

	Can anyone spot the change in writing style, or
	formatting?  Or the fact that the person was employed
	at a company in CO from March 2007 - Present and a
	company in IL from Aug 2007 to December 2007.

	Here is the copy,

	<http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/res/989968402.html>

	and another resume with the same reference to

	Business Analyst/Programmer, Sapphire Technologies & Air
	Methods Corp - (Mar 2007 - Present)

	<http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/res/989476579.html>

	Here is a google search result with at least two results
	using the phrase above.

	<http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Business+Analyst/Programmer,+Sapphire+Technologies+%26+Air+Methods+Corp+-+(Mar+2007+-+Present)%22&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7GGIH&filter=0>

	Resume mill? I cannot overstate fact. Fake listings? Of course. 

http://seeker.dice.com/olc/thread.jspa?messageID=80012
SKundu    	Posts: 28	Registered: 2/26/07
	
	Re: 8 months on bench with SAP ABAP what to do
	Posted: Jul 12, 2008 4:27 PM
	in response to: Sap is sucking me 		

	In my previous company, I worked with many H1B visa
	holders .One of them was arrested by US Immigration
	Department. Later on we learned what was happened to him

	- In fact , the highest degree he had - Indian High
	  School Diploma.
	- He had no real job experience.
	- He did false job experiences , false Master's degree
	  on his resume.

	Technically this is a US Immigration Fraud (obtaining H1B
	visa through false resume, false degree)

	Somehow US Govenment found the fact & he was arrested
	& sent to prison.

	Many H1B's are doing fraud with US Immigration Department
	(www.uscis.gov) in these days & randomly they are checking
	H1B's papers. 

	-----
	CSCS		Posts: 5	Registered: 6/14/08
	Hey, I read from other forums about how to get the very
	first job after paid and got certified from some SAP
	training programs in Canada. What was being told was you
	can just use school projects as your professional
	experience and the school will provide proof for you.

	So these canadians found jobs in US via TN visa with real
	world experience and certifications all from the same
	school.

	The most recent story was a gal added 3 years "experience" 
	to her resume and landed an SAP support job starting in
	June, of course along with her certification. I believe
	her job is in US.

	---

	pjam1976	Posts: 4,285	Registered: 6/19/07

	Yeah and a guy who pretends some documents and forum
	chatter equates to 5 years of SAP experience is somebody
	who earned the right to get a job? Give me a break. I
	guess you can equate best and the brightest to the best 
	at lying on their resume according to your logic. That's
	meritocracy. A place where you can't check on a H1B's real
	experience so you assume it's legit. Except half the time
	anymore it's far from the truth.

	There is nothing wrong with working hard to get what you
	want. But somebody who pretends he spent 5 years doing SAP 
	when the reality is he spent 0 years doing SAP isn't
	somebody working hard to earn that job. They only got it
	because they lied and were an H1B. I wouldn't call that
	meritocracy at all.

	If it's easy for you to assume that US Citizens who aren't 
	working are lazy and outdated and can't keep their skills
	up to date... I guess it would be easy to assume that the
	H1Bs are the dumb ones who couldn't find an IT job in
	India. That's the problem when you throw stereotypes
	around. It goes both ways.


From radkins at impelind.com  Thu Mar 26 13:49:46 2009
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 13:49:46 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
In-Reply-To: <49CBBE48.4010006@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090326181634.705DCC0D3@impelind.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Kulkis
> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 1:41 PM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
> 
> You've heard stories of people being told that they're going 
> to be layed off, and that their separation benefits are 
> dependent upon training their replacements from India?
> 
> In almost all cases, that's Wipro  ... (Snip off the rest)

  Aaron,

	I am impressed at how quickly you have joined up with us "Liberals"
and the Democratic Party in making government work once more for the people
and the workers than for the few at the top and major corporations.

	-Rob

	P.S. That's just some "getting your goat" Aaron, I tell the same
thing to my "Hardcore Republican" family members who have been jumping on
the "Government that Works and is for the People" bandwagon. It trips them
up to no end.



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 26 14:05:51 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 14:05:51 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
In-Reply-To: <20090326181634.705DCC0D3@impelind.com>
References: <20090326181634.705DCC0D3@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <49CBC3FF.7030102@gmail.com>

Robert Adkins wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
>> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Kulkis
>> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 1:41 PM
>> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
>> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
>>
>> You've heard stories of people being told that they're going 
>> to be layed off, and that their separation benefits are 
>> dependent upon training their replacements from India?
>>
>> In almost all cases, that's Wipro  ... (Snip off the rest)
> 
>   Aaron,
> 
> 	I am impressed at how quickly you have joined up with us "Liberals"
> and the Democratic Party in making government work once more for the people
> and the workers than for the few at the top and major corporations.
> 

The current system encourages management practices which are
destructive to both stock-holder value AND long term national
security by completely destroying all incentives for high
school kids to even go into technological lines of work.

If we don't have our own engineers, then we end up like Saudi
Arabia...completely dependent on foreign contractors to do
anything, and utterly incapable of building the hardware
necessary for national defence.

> 	-Rob
> 
> 	P.S. That's just some "getting your goat" Aaron, I tell the same
> thing to my "Hardcore Republican" family members who have been jumping on
> the "Government that Works and is for the People" bandwagon. It trips them
> up to no end.

Actually, I'm a libertarian/constitutionalist.  And I'm very
pro-immigration, too. But I'm completely against ANY sort of fraud,
chicanery, and especially complete violation of immigration laws
(such as the agriculture industry relies on, rather than petitioning
Congress to get the law regarding agricultural labor changed to
something which is more workable, like the old Bracero program)

If a law is bad - I don't believe in ignoring it -- I believe
in getting it changed -- That's how our system is supposed to
work (if a bad law is widely disobeyed, and never enforced, then
it never gets changed -- which means it stays on the books, and
is constantly a Sword of Damocles hanging over the head of all
otherwise law-abiding citizens)


From jbroughton at twmi.rr.com  Thu Mar 26 18:34:55 2009
From: jbroughton at twmi.rr.com (Jim Broughton)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 18:34:55 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Printing a lousy #$%^&* envelope.
In-Reply-To: <200903252317.54550.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>
References: <49C98F15.3030107@twmi.rr.com>
	<200903252317.54550.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49CC030F.9080503@twmi.rr.com>

This did not work. It is what I tried first and about a 4 or 5 more
times because my brain did not seem to register the fact that it just
was not going to work this way.

Jim



Michael S. Mikowski wrote:
> Ran into this today with my wife, who was getting frustrated.
>
> She was trying to create an envelope use the 'insert envelope' option in 
> writer.  This proved buggy.  This on an hp6310, which has excellent support in 
> Linux (which is why I bought it!)
>
> Here is what worked for OOo 2.4.  YMMV:
> 0. Skip 'insert envelope'.  Simply create a new document.
>
> 1. Pick format->page->page tab and under Format pick Env. #10, choose 
> Landscape orientation.
>
> 2. Fill in your envelope
>
> 3. Print envelope.  In the printing dialog, click on 'Properties', and:
> x paper size should show Env. #10
> x leave orientation as protrait
> x leave duplex as off
> ! On Paper Tray, pick envelope feeder.
>
> Press ok and print.  Hopefully this will work for you!
>
> Cheers, Mike
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday 24 March 2009 18:55:33 Jim Broughton wrote:
>   
>> l failure. I am quite angry.
>>  My printing system consists of a Brother 5150D postscript laser
>> printer accessed over the network via a netgear printserver.
>>  The printer has 1 tray for 8.5x11-14 paper and a fold out manual feed tray
>> for envelopes and the like. It never fails to print 8.5x11 documents some
>> even quite complex and duplexed as well.
>>   Try as I might I cannot get this system to print a lousy #10 commercial
>> envelope. I have used Openoffice 2.4, 3.0, Koffice writer, Adobe PDF reader
>> (after sending the output to a pdf from OOO or Koffice writer).  I have
>> tried
>> printing it stright up with the selection for the printer set to #10
>> envelope,
>> I have tried setting margins, rotating 360deg in 90deg incriments. Nothing.
>> The closest it came was Adobe PDF reader put something on the envelope but
>> whoever programmed the PDF converter for KDE and OOO did not force
>> embeded/outlined fonts so it just prints boxes where the letters should be.
>> This sucks. It should be a no brainer. Anyone else have problems with
>> printing envelopes under Linux?
>>
>> Jim
>>     
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>   



From jbroughton at twmi.rr.com  Thu Mar 26 20:51:49 2009
From: jbroughton at twmi.rr.com (Jim Broughton)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 20:51:49 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Printing a lousy #$%^&* envelope.
In-Reply-To: <49C9EFF1.5070206@ameritech.net>
References: <49C98F15.3030107@twmi.rr.com>	<b02c40e90903242116t36b45f4av88dd2bb7c7d0a705@mail.gmail.com>
	<49C9EFF1.5070206@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <49CC2325.6050303@twmi.rr.com>

  I don't usually print envelopes on printers hooked to computers.
I thought just this one time I would try it. I could have stopped after
the first 4 or 5 tries but by then I had gotten to worked up and
faced with a problem that is pissing me off I tend to get single tracked.
It's just that I had never tried it before. Shame on me for thinking it
would be a breeze.
  The folks up in the graphics department where I work run envelopes
through a color copier that acts just like a color printer and they do
it all the time. Funny thing is I have never tried it with Windows XP
and M$ office nor on a Mac with whatever they use.

Jim


Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Jeff Hanson wrote:
>   
>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 9:55 PM, Jim Broughton <jbroughton at twmi.rr.com> wrote:
>>     
>>> I have been a linux user for about 10 years. I have never tried
>>> to print an envelope under Slackware Linux using KDE and Cups.
>>> I may never try again. Total failure. I am quite angry.
>>>       
>> Haven't tried it myself.  I have used gLables to print self-adhesive
>> address labels using a CSV export from a Calc spreadsheet as input.
>>     
>
>
> I haven't tried either, but I think I would have tried printing it as a
> simple word processor document, or more likely a spreadsheet. If I
> understood you correctly you are trying to print *a* (single) envelope?
> Also you are having no trouble using the fold out paper tray, perse?
>
> It seems like, if you didn't mind sacrificing a few sheets of plain
> paper, you could have gotten the text you wanted placed where you wanted
> it, relative to the leading edge of the page, and then just run an
> envelope instead of plain paper.
>
> Failing that I think I would have printed the address on plain paper and
> then cut it (with scissors) and pasted it (with paste) on the envelope.
> Scotch tape and clear packing tape also do well for holding such
> improvised labels in place.
>
> This is still more work than it should be, but I think you would have
> had your envelope in the end. But I feel your pain.
>
> Ray
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>   



From starline at wideopenwest.com  Fri Mar 27 08:56:38 2009
From: starline at wideopenwest.com (bob dion)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 08:56:38 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Printing a lousy #$%^&* envelope.
In-Reply-To: <49C98F15.3030107@twmi.rr.com>
References: <49C98F15.3030107@twmi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <49CCCD06.2050703@wideopenwest.com>

I followed the how-to on an Open Office site to print env.

http://openoffice.blogs.com/openoffice/2005/12/printing_envelo.html

You need to set the paper type in the printer config/options to env for 
it to work.

So I setup an extra copy of my printer in cups to just print env.

Hope this helps
BD



Jim Broughton wrote:
> I have been a linux user for about 10 years. I have never tried
> to print an envelope under Slackware Linux using KDE and Cups.
> I may never try again. Total failure. I am quite angry.
>  My printing system consists of a Brother 5150D postscript laser
> printer accessed over the network via a netgear printserver.
>  The printer has 1 tray for 8.5x11-14 paper and a fold out manual feed tray
> for envelopes and the like. It never fails to print 8.5x11 documents some
> even quite complex and duplexed as well.
>   Try as I might I cannot get this system to print a lousy #10 commercial
> envelope. I have used Openoffice 2.4, 3.0, Koffice writer, Adobe PDF reader
> (after sending the output to a pdf from OOO or Koffice writer).  I have 
> tried
> printing it stright up with the selection for the printer set to #10 
> envelope,
> I have tried setting margins, rotating 360deg in 90deg incriments. Nothing.
> The closest it came was Adobe PDF reader put something on the envelope but
> whoever programmed the PDF converter for KDE and OOO did not force
> embeded/outlined fonts so it just prints boxes where the letters should be.
> This sucks. It should be a no brainer. Anyone else have problems with
> printing envelopes under Linux?
> 
> Jim




From newmaniese at gmail.com  Fri Mar 27 15:52:25 2009
From: newmaniese at gmail.com (Michael)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 15:52:25 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Help: Changing open file limits on Ubuntu 8.04
Message-ID: <225acb190903271252h607913e0l8a06ee88197d5c5@mail.gmail.com>

Hey all;
I am at my wits end on this problem on one of my Web servers that also hosts
my NFS mounts. I am asking here out of last resort because my Google-fu has
failed me.

It appears as though I am running out of available open file descriptors.
The current set up is only allowing 1024. My big user: www-data is also
under the same limits. This is causing quite a bit of latency on the server,
which might come under quite a bit of load.

So far, I have made sure to place in /etc/security/limits.conf:


*   hard    nofile  65536
*   soft    nofile  65536


I also updated sysctl.conf:


fs.file-max = 65536


After sysctl -p I can

$ cat /proc/sys/fs/file-max
65536


but ulimit -n still reads 1024. And trying to set it leads to errors:

$ ulimit -n 65536
-bash: ulimit: open files: cannot modify limit: Operation not permitted


In the end I really need this increased for all users, including the
www-data process. I am really having difficulty here.

Thanks for any help,

Michael


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Fri Mar 27 16:20:22 2009
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 16:20:22 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Help: Changing open file limits on Ubuntu 8.04
In-Reply-To: <225acb190903271252h607913e0l8a06ee88197d5c5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <225acb190903271252h607913e0l8a06ee88197d5c5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90903271320t1d05c9f8td66e8d61828e25d8@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 3:52 PM, Michael <newmaniese at gmail.com> wrote:
> -bash: ulimit: open files: cannot modify limit: Operation not permitted

I searched with Google for "ulimit: open files: cannot modify limit:
Operation not permitted" and found some articles at ittoolbox.com and
linuxquestions.org.  Looks like there are a couple of other limits to
take into account.


From muteid10t at gmail.com  Fri Mar 27 16:54:11 2009
From: muteid10t at gmail.com (Ron Blanchett)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 16:54:11 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Help: Changing open file limits on Ubuntu 8.04
In-Reply-To: <225acb190903271252h607913e0l8a06ee88197d5c5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <225acb190903271252h607913e0l8a06ee88197d5c5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52995d720903271354n612dbebbx44f12bb6ed8b25bf@mail.gmail.com>

You are running 'ulimit -n 65536' as root right.




On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 3:52 PM, Michael <newmaniese at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hey all;
> I am at my wits end on this problem on one of my Web servers that also
> hosts
> my NFS mounts. I am asking here out of last resort because my Google-fu has
> failed me.
>
> It appears as though I am running out of available open file descriptors.
> The current set up is only allowing 1024. My big user: www-data is also
> under the same limits. This is causing quite a bit of latency on the
> server,
> which might come under quite a bit of load.
>
> So far, I have made sure to place in /etc/security/limits.conf:
>
>
> *   hard    nofile  65536
> *   soft    nofile  65536
>
>
> I also updated sysctl.conf:
>
>
> fs.file-max = 65536
>
>
> After sysctl -p I can
>
> $ cat /proc/sys/fs/file-max
> 65536
>
>
> but ulimit -n still reads 1024. And trying to set it leads to errors:
>
> $ ulimit -n 65536
> -bash: ulimit: open files: cannot modify limit: Operation not permitted
>
>
> In the end I really need this increased for all users, including the
> www-data process. I am really having difficulty here.
>
> Thanks for any help,
>
> Michael
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From newmaniese at gmail.com  Fri Mar 27 17:21:43 2009
From: newmaniese at gmail.com (Michael)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 17:21:43 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Help: Changing open file limits on Ubuntu 8.04
In-Reply-To: <52995d720903271354n612dbebbx44f12bb6ed8b25bf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <225acb190903271252h607913e0l8a06ee88197d5c5@mail.gmail.com>
	<52995d720903271354n612dbebbx44f12bb6ed8b25bf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <225acb190903271421k5faaeb2du8966d8fa3ab46a37@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 4:54 PM, Ron Blanchett <muteid10t at gmail.com> wrote:

> You are running 'ulimit -n 65536' as root right.
>
>
When I run ulimit as root I am able to change root's available file
descriptors:

# ulimit -n 65536
# ulimit -n
65536

but this doesn't trickle down into the other users. I am really confused
about this, not too used to need to tune the kernel parameters. I really
need this raised for the other users on the system as well.

Thanks again,

Michael


From jbroughton at twmi.rr.com  Fri Mar 27 18:25:38 2009
From: jbroughton at twmi.rr.com (Jim Broughton)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 18:25:38 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Help: Changing open file limits on Ubuntu 8.04
In-Reply-To: <225acb190903271252h607913e0l8a06ee88197d5c5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <225acb190903271252h607913e0l8a06ee88197d5c5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49CD5262.1050709@twmi.rr.com>

Here ya go. I think this explains limits.conf quite well.

http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/libs/pam/Linux-PAM-html/sag-pam_limits.html

Notice how the USERS must be addressed within this file. Not just a 
global setting.

Cheers, Jim.


Michael wrote:
> Hey all;
> I am at my wits end on this problem on one of my Web servers that also hosts
> my NFS mounts. I am asking here out of last resort because my Google-fu has
> failed me.
>
> It appears as though I am running out of available open file descriptors.
> The current set up is only allowing 1024. My big user: www-data is also
> under the same limits. This is causing quite a bit of latency on the server,
> which might come under quite a bit of load.
>
> So far, I have made sure to place in /etc/security/limits.conf:
>
>
> *   hard    nofile  65536
> *   soft    nofile  65536
>
>
> I also updated sysctl.conf:
>
>
> fs.file-max = 65536
>
>
> After sysctl -p I can
>
> $ cat /proc/sys/fs/file-max
> 65536
>
>
> but ulimit -n still reads 1024. And trying to set it leads to errors:
>
> $ ulimit -n 65536
> -bash: ulimit: open files: cannot modify limit: Operation not permitted
>
>
> In the end I really need this increased for all users, including the
> www-data process. I am really having difficulty here.
>
> Thanks for any help,
>
> Michael
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>   



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 27 18:28:29 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 18:28:29 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Help: Changing open file limits on Ubuntu 8.04
In-Reply-To: <225acb190903271252h607913e0l8a06ee88197d5c5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <225acb190903271252h607913e0l8a06ee88197d5c5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49CD530D.6040905@gmail.com>

Michael wrote:
> Hey all;
> I am at my wits end on this problem on one of my Web servers that also hosts
> my NFS mounts. I am asking here out of last resort because my Google-fu has
> failed me.
> 
> It appears as though I am running out of available open file descriptors.
> The current set up is only allowing 1024. My big user: www-data is also
> under the same limits. This is causing quite a bit of latency on the server,
> which might come under quite a bit of load.
> 
> So far, I have made sure to place in /etc/security/limits.conf:
> 
> 
> *   hard    nofile  65536
> *   soft    nofile  65536
> 
> 
> I also updated sysctl.conf:
> 
> 
> fs.file-max = 65536
> 
> 
> After sysctl -p I can
> 
> $ cat /proc/sys/fs/file-max
> 65536
> 
> 
> but ulimit -n still reads 1024. And trying to set it leads to errors:
> 

Non-root users can only LOWER their ulimits.

For the new limits to take effect, I believe you'll have to reboot.

> $ ulimit -n 65536
> -bash: ulimit: open files: cannot modify limit: Operation not permitted



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 27 18:29:58 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 18:29:58 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Help: Changing open file limits on Ubuntu 8.04
In-Reply-To: <225acb190903271421k5faaeb2du8966d8fa3ab46a37@mail.gmail.com>
References: <225acb190903271252h607913e0l8a06ee88197d5c5@mail.gmail.com>	<52995d720903271354n612dbebbx44f12bb6ed8b25bf@mail.gmail.com>
	<225acb190903271421k5faaeb2du8966d8fa3ab46a37@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49CD5366.5020109@gmail.com>

Michael wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 4:54 PM, Ron Blanchett <muteid10t at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> You are running 'ulimit -n 65536' as root right.
>>
>>
> When I run ulimit as root I am able to change root's available file
> descriptors:
> 
> # ulimit -n 65536
> # ulimit -n
> 65536
> 
> but this doesn't trickle down into the other users. I am really confused
> about this, not too used to need to tune the kernel parameters. I really
> need this raised for the other users on the system as well.

ulimit applies ONLY to the current shell, and all child
(grandchild, etc.) processes.  It does not effect sibling,
parent, cousin, aunt, etc. processes


From newmaniese at gmail.com  Fri Mar 27 19:05:29 2009
From: newmaniese at gmail.com (Michael)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 19:05:29 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Help: Changing open file limits on Ubuntu 8.04
In-Reply-To: <49CD5366.5020109@gmail.com>
References: <225acb190903271252h607913e0l8a06ee88197d5c5@mail.gmail.com>
	<52995d720903271354n612dbebbx44f12bb6ed8b25bf@mail.gmail.com>
	<225acb190903271421k5faaeb2du8966d8fa3ab46a37@mail.gmail.com>
	<49CD5366.5020109@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <225acb190903271605q9512798t276308311ca04c05@mail.gmail.com>

>
>
> ulimit applies ONLY to the current shell, and all child
> (grandchild, etc.) processes.  It does not effect sibling,
> parent, cousin, aunt, etc. processes
>

So how would one up the number of available open files for www-data, which
is only being used by nginx? I could really care less about the shell.

I have done the PAM and ssh stuffs mentioned earlier.

I also have hard rebooted (granted it was 190 days ago) and didn't get
anywhere, but if we think it would work after the changes that I have made,
I guess I am willing to give it a try.

The symptoms of the issue appear are slow reads and writes to the nfs
drives, Empty files sometimes being returned and an error in the Nginx logs,
which read "Too many open files" despite the settings for nginx which has
the file limits at a huge number.


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 28 06:18:55 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 06:18:55 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Help: Changing open file limits on Ubuntu 8.04
In-Reply-To: <225acb190903271605q9512798t276308311ca04c05@mail.gmail.com>
References: <225acb190903271252h607913e0l8a06ee88197d5c5@mail.gmail.com>	<52995d720903271354n612dbebbx44f12bb6ed8b25bf@mail.gmail.com>	<225acb190903271421k5faaeb2du8966d8fa3ab46a37@mail.gmail.com>	<49CD5366.5020109@gmail.com>
	<225acb190903271605q9512798t276308311ca04c05@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49CDF98F.3000608@gmail.com>

Michael wrote:
>>
>> ulimit applies ONLY to the current shell, and all child
>> (grandchild, etc.) processes.  It does not effect sibling,
>> parent, cousin, aunt, etc. processes
>>
> 
> So how would one up the number of available open files for www-data, which
> is only being used by nginx? I could really care less about the shell.

But all processes that you run are children of some shell or another.

The simplest solution is up the limits in the file you mentioned
in /etc, and then reboot the machine.  This will start init
with higher ulimits, and give all children similarly high limits.

> 
> I have done the PAM and ssh stuffs mentioned earlier.
> 
> I also have hard rebooted (granted it was 190 days ago) and didn't get
> anywhere, but if we think it would work after the changes that I have made,
> I guess I am willing to give it a try.
> 
> The symptoms of the issue appear are slow reads and writes to the nfs
> drives, Empty files sometimes being returned and an error in the Nginx logs,
> which read "Too many open files" despite the settings for nginx which has
> the file limits at a huge number.


See above


From rkannan at peoplepc.com  Sat Mar 28 17:52:17 2009
From: rkannan at peoplepc.com (R. Kannan)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 17:52:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] How to make minicom read AT commands from a file
Message-ID: <2987806.1238277137615.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Hello,

I cannot find this in the minicom man page. I want minicom to read and send AT commands from a file to a serial port device (phone). I used to know this. Does anyone know how this can be done?

TIA

________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sat Mar 28 17:57:19 2009
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 17:57:19 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] How to make minicom read AT commands from a file
In-Reply-To: <2987806.1238277137615.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <2987806.1238277137615.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90903281457x5cca6f88md213ef7edbcb9e25@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 5:52 PM, R. Kannan <rkannan at peoplepc.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I cannot find this in the minicom man page. I want minicom to read and send AT commands from a file to a serial port device (phone). I used to know this. Does anyone know how this can be done?
>

http://linux.die.net/man/1/minicom

Could also try cu and kermit.


From rkannan at peoplepc.com  Sat Mar 28 19:19:16 2009
From: rkannan at peoplepc.com (R. Kannan)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 19:19:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] How to make minicom read AT commands from a file
Message-ID: <24804776.1238282356424.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Thanks for the link to man pages. As I said, I already read the man pages, there does not seem to be an option to read AT commands from a file. I know I have done this before but cannot remember how.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com>
>Sent: Mar 28, 2009 5:57 PM
>To: "R. Kannan" <rkannan at peoplepc.com>, MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>Subject: Re: [mdlug] How to make minicom read AT commands from a file
>
>On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 5:52 PM, R. Kannan <rkannan at peoplepc.com> wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I cannot find this in the minicom man page. I want minicom to read and send AT commands from a file to a serial port device (phone). I used to know this. Does anyone know how this can be done?
>>
>
>http://linux.die.net/man/1/minicom
>
>Could also try cu and kermit.


________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com


From mdlug3 at arb.net  Sat Mar 28 18:59:09 2009
From: mdlug3 at arb.net (dave)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 18:59:09 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
In-Reply-To: <20090325.134844.4004.1@webmail19.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20090325.134844.4004.1@webmail19.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <49CEABBD.9000709@arb.net>

It is true... Compuware approached Ford and said they need to increase 
the workers level - saying they are working above their pay grade and 
that the billable rate would need to increase across the board. Ford 
said, sorry, no cash for promotions and raises for Ford employees or 
"agency". So, Compuware told their people to pack their bags. Some are 
already gone, some have until Tuesday....

I guess compuware executive must not be following the auto industry ;-) 
Even GAZ is about to fold tent and the owner was the second richest man 
in Russia only a few months ago.

gib at juno.com wrote:

> 
>The Compuware contract with Ford may be ending.  Many people are being taken off of the Ford account.  So, Ford will be bringing in replacements. 
>____________________________________________________________
>Click to get free auto insurance quotes from top companies.
>http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/BLSrjnsHEaB93DecmLkZDgsuqWWTnlaR5LkUOFDdoIuCjEKrjwPMwxKdRM8/
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>  
>



From mdlug3 at arb.net  Sat Mar 28 19:02:23 2009
From: mdlug3 at arb.net (dave)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 19:02:23 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
In-Reply-To: <49CBAA4B.8080508@gmail.com>
References: <20090326133348.C3DFDC0D3@impelind.com>
	<49CBAA4B.8080508@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49CEAC7F.5010608@arb.net>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:

>Robert Adkins wrote:
>  
>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
>>>[mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Kulkis
>>>Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 1:02 AM
>>>To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
>>>Subject: Re: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
>>>
>>>gib at juno.com wrote:
>>>      
>>>
>>>> 
>>>>The Compuware contract with Ford may be ending.  Many 
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>people are being taken off of the Ford account.  So, Ford 
>>>will be bringing in replacements. 
>>>
>>>Better not be from Wipro -- if so, all of Michigan should be 
>>>up in arms... literally.
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>  This could be opening up a can of worms, but why?
>>
>>  I do not know anything of this Wipro you speak of.
>>    
>>
>
>You've heard stories of people being told that they're
>going to be layed off, and that their separation benefits
>are dependent upon training their replacements from India?
>
>In almost all cases, that's Wipro.  They are the number
>one abuser of the H1-B visa program.
>
>About 10 years ago, when I first heard that the H1-B program
>was being abused, I didn't believe it...but then I started
>seeing more and more evidence that supports the accusation.
>It's being used to displace American IT workers, not
>supplement, which is the purpose of the program.
>  
>

So far, I have not seen any replacements, from India nor anyplace else. 
I have started to get query from other Pimp houses drooling over the 
open requisitions. The fact that Ford HR posted open req's says this is 
not a move to send jobs off shore or to any specific company.


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 28 20:15:21 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 20:15:21 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
In-Reply-To: <49CEABBD.9000709@arb.net>
References: <20090325.134844.4004.1@webmail19.vgs.untd.com>
	<49CEABBD.9000709@arb.net>
Message-ID: <49CEBD99.5080902@gmail.com>

dave wrote:
> It is true... Compuware approached Ford and said they need to increase 
> the workers level - saying they are working above their pay grade and 
> that the billable rate would need to increase across the board. Ford 
> said, sorry, no cash for promotions and raises for Ford employees or 
> "agency". So, Compuware told their people to pack their bags. Some are 
> already gone, some have until Tuesday....
> 
> I guess compuware executive must not be following the auto industry ;-) 
> Even GAZ is about to fold tent and the owner was the second richest man 
> in Russia only a few months ago.
> 

Currently, every single automaker on the planet is on financial
life support after 3 decades of concerted attack by the
enviro-statists (people driving cars = freedom).


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 28 20:17:44 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 20:17:44 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
In-Reply-To: <49CEAC7F.5010608@arb.net>
References: <20090326133348.C3DFDC0D3@impelind.com>	<49CBAA4B.8080508@gmail.com>
	<49CEAC7F.5010608@arb.net>
Message-ID: <49CEBE28.4090301@gmail.com>

dave wrote:
> Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> 
>> Robert Adkins wrote:
>>  
>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
>>>> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Kulkis
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 1:02 AM
>>>> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
>>>> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
>>>>
>>>> gib at juno.com wrote:
>>>>      
>>>>
>>>>> The Compuware contract with Ford may be ending.  Many 
>>>>>        
>>>>>
>>>> people are being taken off of the Ford account.  So, Ford 
>>>> will be bringing in replacements. 
>>>>
>>>> Better not be from Wipro -- if so, all of Michigan should be 
>>>> up in arms... literally.
>>>>
>>>>      
>>>>
>>>  This could be opening up a can of worms, but why?
>>>
>>>  I do not know anything of this Wipro you speak of.
>>>    
>>>
>> You've heard stories of people being told that they're
>> going to be layed off, and that their separation benefits
>> are dependent upon training their replacements from India?
>>
>> In almost all cases, that's Wipro.  They are the number
>> one abuser of the H1-B visa program.
>>
>> About 10 years ago, when I first heard that the H1-B program
>> was being abused, I didn't believe it...but then I started
>> seeing more and more evidence that supports the accusation.
>> It's being used to displace American IT workers, not
>> supplement, which is the purpose of the program.
>>  
>>
> 
> So far, I have not seen any replacements, from India nor anyplace else. 
> I have started to get query from other Pimp houses drooling over the 
> open requisitions. The fact that Ford HR posted open req's says this is 
> not a move to send jobs off shore or to any specific company.

That's good, then.  From your post 3 minutes before this one,
it appears that it's just a reaction to the Compuware exec's
attempt to squeeze blood from a turnip.


From tesral at wowway.com  Sat Mar 28 20:35:32 2009
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 20:35:32 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
In-Reply-To: <49CEBE28.4090301@gmail.com>
References: <20090326133348.C3DFDC0D3@impelind.com>	<49CBAA4B.8080508@gmail.com>	<49CEAC7F.5010608@arb.net>
	<49CEBE28.4090301@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49CEC254.2060605@wowway.com>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> That's good, then.  From your post 3 minutes before this one,
> it appears that it's just a reaction to the Compuware exec's
> attempt to squeeze blood from a turnip.
>
>   
trying again

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From billings at negate.org  Sat Mar 28 20:50:45 2009
From: billings at negate.org (Jonathan Billings)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 20:50:45 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] How to make minicom read AT commands from a file
In-Reply-To: <2987806.1238277137615.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <2987806.1238277137615.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20090329005045.GC2889@meson.local>

On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 05:52:17PM -0400, R. Kannan wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I cannot find this in the minicom man page. I want minicom to read
> and send AT commands from a file to a serial port device (phone). I
> used to know this. Does anyone know how this can be done? 

This might not be the way you were doing it, but it should work:

Hit C-a S (send file), choose 'ascii' and then choose the file with
the AT commands.

There's actually a command for doing this kind of thing automatically,
called 'chat'.  It might sound familiar to folks who used linux with
dial-up networking because it was how a lot of people set up PPP and
SLIP dial-up.  It should be included with a distro's PPP packages.

-- 
Jonathan Billings <billings at negate.org>


From jjn at nuge.com  Sun Mar 29 05:18:01 2009
From: jjn at nuge.com (Jay Nugent)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 04:18:01 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] How to make minicom read AT commands from a file
In-Reply-To: <20090329005045.GC2889@meson.local>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0903290416411.4094-100000@home.nuge.com>

Greetings,

On Sat, 28 Mar 2009, Jonathan Billings wrote:

> On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 05:52:17PM -0400, R. Kannan wrote:
> > Hello,
> > 
> > I cannot find this in the minicom man page. I want minicom to read
> > and send AT commands from a file to a serial port device (phone). I
> > used to know this. Does anyone know how this can be done? 
> 
> This might not be the way you were doing it, but it should work:
> 
> Hit C-a S (send file), choose 'ascii' and then choose the file with
> the AT commands.
> 
> There's actually a command for doing this kind of thing automatically,
> called 'chat'.  It might sound familiar to folks who used linux with
> dial-up networking because it was how a lot of people set up PPP and
> SLIP dial-up.  It should be included with a distro's PPP packages.

   And inside CHAT, the thing that does the exchange of sending AT 
commands and reading back the result codes ("OK") was a program called 
EXPECT.

      --- Jay

Train how you will Operate, and you will Operate how you were Trained.
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Jay Nugent   jjn at nuge.com    (734)484-5105    (734)649-0850/Cell       |
|   Nugent Telecommunications  [www.nuge.com]                            |
|   Internet Consulting/Linux SysAdmin/Engineering & Design/ISP Reseller |
| ISP Monitoring [www.ispmonitor.org] ISP & Modem Performance Monitoring |
| Web-Pegasus    [www.webpegasus.com] Web Hosting/DNS Hosting/Shell Accts|
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
  4:01am  up 4 days,  1:08,  4 users,  load average: 0.06, 0.04, 0.01



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Sun Mar 29 05:03:48 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 05:03:48 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] How to make minicom read AT commands from a file
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0903290416411.4094-100000@home.nuge.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0903290416411.4094-100000@home.nuge.com>
Message-ID: <49CF3974.2020200@gmail.com>

Jay Nugent wrote:
> Greetings,
> 
> On Sat, 28 Mar 2009, Jonathan Billings wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 05:52:17PM -0400, R. Kannan wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I cannot find this in the minicom man page. I want minicom to read
>>> and send AT commands from a file to a serial port device (phone). I
>>> used to know this. Does anyone know how this can be done? 
>> This might not be the way you were doing it, but it should work:
>>
>> Hit C-a S (send file), choose 'ascii' and then choose the file with
>> the AT commands.
>>
>> There's actually a command for doing this kind of thing automatically,
>> called 'chat'.  It might sound familiar to folks who used linux with
>> dial-up networking because it was how a lot of people set up PPP and
>> SLIP dial-up.  It should be included with a distro's PPP packages.
> 
>    And inside CHAT, the thing that does the exchange of sending AT 
> commands and reading back the result codes ("OK") was a program called 
> EXPECT.

expect is an interpreted language, and is just called from inside CHAT.

man expect(1)

NAME
       expect - programmed dialogue with interactive programs, Version 5

SYNOPSIS
       expect [ -dDinN ] [ -c cmds ] [ [ -[f|b] ] cmdfile ] [ args ]

INTRODUCTION
       Expect is a program that "talks" to other interactive programs
       according  to  a  script.   Following the script, Expect knows
       what can be expected from  a  program  and  what  the  correct
       response  should be.  An interpreted language provides branch-
       ing and high-level control structures to direct the  dialogue.
       In  addition,  the user can take control and interact directly
       when desired, afterward returning control to the script.

       Expectk is a mixture of Expect and Tk.  It behaves  just  like
       Expect  and  Tk's wish.  Expect can also be used directly in C
       or C++ (that is, without Tcl).  See libexpect(3).

       The name "Expect" comes from the idea of send/expect sequences
       popularized  by uucp, kermit and other modem control programs.
       However unlike uucp, Expect is generalized so that it  can  be
       run as a user-level command with any program and task in mind.
       Expect can actually talk to several programs at the same time.

       For example, here are some things Expect can do:

              ?   Cause  your  computer to dial you back, so that you
                  can login without paying for the call.

              ?   Start a game (e.g., rogue) and if the optimal  con-
                  figuration  doesn't  appear,  restart it (again and
                  again) until it does, then  hand  over  control  to
                  you.

              ?   Run  fsck, and in response to its questions, answer
                  "yes", "no" or give control back to you,  based  on
                  predetermined criteria.

              ?   Connect  to another network or BBS (e.g., MCI Mail,
                  CompuServe) and automatically retrieve your mail so
                  that  it  appears  as  if it was originally sent to
                  your local system.

              ?   Carry environment variables, current directory,  or
                  any kind of information across rlogin, telnet, tip,
                  su, chgrp, etc.

       There are a variety of reasons why the  shell  cannot  perform
       these  tasks.   (Try,  you'll  see.)   All  are  possible with
       Expect.

   .....


From billings at negate.org  Sun Mar 29 12:06:41 2009
From: billings at negate.org (Jonathan Billings)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 12:06:41 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] How to make minicom read AT commands from a file
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0903290416411.4094-100000@home.nuge.com>
References: <20090329005045.GC2889@meson.local>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0903290416411.4094-100000@home.nuge.com>
Message-ID: <20090329160641.GD2889@meson.local>

On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 04:18:01AM -0500, Jay Nugent wrote:
>    And inside CHAT, the thing that does the exchange of sending AT 
> commands and reading back the result codes ("OK") was a program called 
> EXPECT.

Perhaps you used a different 'chat' than me, but the 'chat' I've used
has always been it's own C program, similar to 'expect' but different
syntax.  (I recall expect was in TCL, correct me if I'm wrong.)  You
could certainly get similar results with 'expect' and something like
'cu'.  

-- 
Jonathan Billings <billings at negate.org>


From mdlug3 at arb.net  Sun Mar 29 14:12:20 2009
From: mdlug3 at arb.net (dave)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 14:12:20 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
In-Reply-To: <49CEBE28.4090301@gmail.com>
References: <20090326133348.C3DFDC0D3@impelind.com>	<49CBAA4B.8080508@gmail.com>	<49CEAC7F.5010608@arb.net>
	<49CEBE28.4090301@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49CFBA04.9040101@arb.net>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:

>dave wrote:
>  
>
>>Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Robert Adkins wrote:
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
>>>>>[mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Kulkis
>>>>>Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 1:02 AM
>>>>>To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
>>>>>Subject: Re: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
>>>>>
>>>>>gib at juno.com wrote:
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>The Compuware contract with Ford may be ending.  Many 
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>people are being taken off of the Ford account.  So, Ford 
>>>>>will be bringing in replacements. 
>>>>>
>>>>>Better not be from Wipro -- if so, all of Michigan should be 
>>>>>up in arms... literally.
>>>>>
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>> This could be opening up a can of worms, but why?
>>>>
>>>> I do not know anything of this Wipro you speak of.
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>You've heard stories of people being told that they're
>>>going to be layed off, and that their separation benefits
>>>are dependent upon training their replacements from India?
>>>
>>>In almost all cases, that's Wipro.  They are the number
>>>one abuser of the H1-B visa program.
>>>
>>>About 10 years ago, when I first heard that the H1-B program
>>>was being abused, I didn't believe it...but then I started
>>>seeing more and more evidence that supports the accusation.
>>>It's being used to displace American IT workers, not
>>>supplement, which is the purpose of the program.
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>So far, I have not seen any replacements, from India nor anyplace else. 
>>I have started to get query from other Pimp houses drooling over the 
>>open requisitions. The fact that Ford HR posted open req's says this is 
>>not a move to send jobs off shore or to any specific company.
>>    
>>
>
>That's good, then.  From your post 3 minutes before this one,
>it appears that it's just a reaction to the Compuware exec's
>attempt to squeeze blood from a turnip.
>

Yeah, that's my take. Ford like Chrysler owns a software house in Cinai 
(spelling?) India. So, if they wanted to off shore IT jobs, it would be 
a no brainer.


From ldaphelp at thuemmel.com  Sun Mar 29 14:46:00 2009
From: ldaphelp at thuemmel.com (Mark Thuemmel)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 14:46:00 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] How to make minicom read AT commands from a file
In-Reply-To: <2987806.1238277137615.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <2987806.1238277137615.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <49CFC1E8.4040403@thuemmel.com>

R. Kannan wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I cannot find this in the minicom man page. I want minicom to read and send AT commands from a file to a serial port device (phone). I used to know this. Does anyone know how this can be done?
> 

minicom -S nameofyourScript

 can send commands to the modem.  That is assuming you need more than
the standard modem int string.

http://linux.die.net/man/1/runscript


From driveray at ameritech.net  Mon Mar  2 07:10:59 2009
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 07:10:59 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] SEMCO looking for new meeting place
Message-ID: <49ABCCD3.6020204@ameritech.net>

MDLUGers:

It seems that our joint install fest was SEMCO's last meeting at the
ArvinMerator campus. I just received an email indicateing that "...
effective immediately ArvinMeritor Inc. no longer will be providing
non-business use of our facility ..."

It is tempting to scratch the paranoia itch with speculation about
strings being pulled to put the kibosh on their nascent interest in
promoting Linux, but since ArvinMeritor is an automotive supplier, it is
much more likely about cost cutting.

At any rate SEMCO is now looking for venues where they can hole their
regular meeting. I understand they are looking into the Engeneering
Society of Detroit location in Southfield.

Those who plan to attend should check their web site for updates. (I
just checked, it hasn't been updated, still shows meeting at AM. But I
have received emails about the situation from several of their officers.

Raymond McLaughlin


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Mon Mar  2 19:59:16 2009
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 19:59:16 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] SEMCO looking for new meeting place
In-Reply-To: <49ABCCD3.6020204@ameritech.net>
References: <49ABCCD3.6020204@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380903021659o3d905822m9e9b899f34b8ec67@mail.gmail.com>

--- Raymond McLaughlin wrote:

> It seems that our joint install fest was SEMCO's last meeting at the
> ArvinMerator campus. I just received an email indicateing that "...
> effective immediately ArvinMeritor Inc. no longer will be providing
> non-business use of our facility ..."

> At any rate SEMCO is now looking for venues where they can hole their
> regular meeting. I understand they are looking into the Engineering
> Society of Detroit location in Southfield.

Confirmed, per Mike Bader:

NEW MEETING LOCATION!
The Engineering Society of Detroit
20700 Civic Center Drive, Suite 450, 4th Floor
Southfield, MI 48076-4140
NOTE: Additional parking at the north side (back side) of the building.

Map: http://tinyurl.com/semco-new
full link: <http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=20700+Civic+Center+Dr+48076&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=27.643082,56.601563&ie=UTF8&ll=42.480089,-83.25006&spn=0.006267,0.013819&t=k&z=16>

~~ Michael Rudas
    My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
    My software blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com
    My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/3wt54n


From gib at juno.com  Mon Mar  2 20:59:21 2009
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 01:59:21 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] SEMCO looking for new meeting place
Message-ID: <20090302.205921.13158.4@webmail15.vgs.untd.com>


Cool, much closer for me.

-- Michael Rudas <audiotech50 at gmail.com> wrote:
--- Raymond McLaughlin wrote:

> It seems that our joint install fest was SEMCO's last meeting at the
> ArvinMerator campus. I just received an email indicateing that "...
> effective immediately ArvinMeritor Inc. no longer will be providing
> non-business use of our facility ..."

> At any rate SEMCO is now looking for venues where they can hole their
> regular meeting. I understand they are looking into the Engineering
> Society of Detroit location in Southfield.

Confirmed, per Mike Bader:

NEW MEETING LOCATION!
The Engineering Society of Detroit
20700 Civic Center Drive, Suite 450, 4th Floor
Southfield, MI 48076-4140
NOTE: Additional parking at the north side (back side) of the building.

Map: http://tinyurl.com/semco-new
full link: <http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=20700+Civic+Center+Dr+48076&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=27.643082,56.601563&ie=UTF8&ll=42.480089,-83.25006&spn=0.006267,0.013819&t=k&z=16>

~~ Michael Rudas
    My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
    My software blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com
    My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/3wt54n
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


____________________________________________________________
Get Medical Insurance quotes and compare plans. Click now.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/BLSrjnsHFU4KXPXZTTG8rEt1QbXtpsZNS8T9rqIK6vXPSnubZ7ND7tWOjks/


From gib at juno.com  Mon Mar  2 20:57:56 2009
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 01:57:56 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] [OpenStreetMap] Sarah M sent you a new message
Message-ID: <20090302.205756.13158.2@webmail15.vgs.untd.com>


Forwarded to those who may have an interest.

---------- Forwarded Message ----------
***************************************************************************
*                                                                         *
*                   Please do not reply to this email.                    *
*                Use the OpenStreetMap web site to reply.                 *
*                                                                         *
*               Bitte antworten Sie nicht auf diese E-Mail.               *
*          Verwenden Sie die OpenStreetMap Website zum Antworten.         *
*                                                                         *
*                 Por favor, no responda a este mensaje.                  *
*           Utilice el OpenStreetMap sitio web para responder.            *
*                                                                         *
*            S???il vous pla??t de ne pas r??pondre ?? ce message.             *
*           Utilisez le OpenStreetMap site Web pour y r??pondre.           *
*                                                                         *
***************************************************************************

Hi Gibson Nichols,

Sarah M has sent you a message through OpenStreetMap with the subject "Please help us improve OSM and be entered to win a GPS unit!":

==
Dear Gibson Nichols,

Hi I'm Sarah and I'm a community member of OpenStreetMap. I host OSM  events such as mapping parties, talks and social get-togethers in the USA where CloudMade is helping to build the OSM community. As you may  know the OSM community in Europe is very active. I am working hard to replicate that here in the US and you can be of real help building the community. Since you are a registered contributor to OSM, your input is of great value.

I really appreciate your time, please take a few minutes to answer a couple of simple questions here: http://tinyurl.com/c3sw3k

In exchange for your time, you will be eligible to win a Etrex Legend GPS unit.  We will be picking the GPS winner on March 16th, so be sure to fill out the form by then!

Thanks so much,

Sarah Manley


==

You can also read the message at http://www.openstreetmap.org/message/read/35713
and you can reply at http://www.openstreetmap.org/message/reply/35713

***************************************************************************
*                                                                         *
*                   Please do not reply to this email.                    *
*                Use the OpenStreetMap web site to reply.                 *
*                                                                         *
*               Bitte antworten Sie nicht auf diese E-Mail.               *
*          Verwenden Sie die OpenStreetMap Website zum Antworten.         *
*                                                                         *
*                 Por favor, no responda a este mensaje.                  *
*           Utilice el OpenStreetMap sitio web para responder.            *
*                                                                         *
*            S???il vous pla??t de ne pas r??pondre ?? ce message.             *
*           Utilisez le OpenStreetMap site Web pour y r??pondre.           *
*                                                                         *
***************************************************************************


____________________________________________________________
Click to get Medical Insurance options that meet your needs.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/BLSrjnsHFU4KbCjpxvqJLmnDrlg9YgUOdh9vgZ60gePqWAjXnQaAUIpn7oM/


From micorral at comcast.net  Mon Mar  2 21:11:37 2009
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 21:11:37 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] SEMCO looking for new meeting place
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380903021659o3d905822m9e9b899f34b8ec67@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49ABCCD3.6020204@ameritech.net>
	<b67fb0380903021659o3d905822m9e9b899f34b8ec67@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0903022109230.6846@banana.sluggo.net>

2009-03-02, Monsieur Michael Rudas a ecrit:
> NEW MEETING LOCATION!
> The Engineering Society of Detroit
> 20700 Civic Center Drive, Suite 450, 4th Floor
> Southfield, MI 48076-4140

Cool, that's about 3 minutes from my place.
I'm now almost half-tempted to attend.

Michael


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Tue Mar  3 23:25:40 2009
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 23:25:40 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] SEMCO looking for new meeting place
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380903021659o3d905822m9e9b899f34b8ec67@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49ABCCD3.6020204@ameritech.net>
	<b67fb0380903021659o3d905822m9e9b899f34b8ec67@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380903032025v1e014c1ehe75194de0988f0be@mail.gmail.com>

--- Michael Rudas wrote:
> --- Raymond McLaughlin wrote:

>> SEMCO is now looking for venues where they can hold their
>> regular meeting. I understand they are looking into the Engineering
>> Society of Detroit location in Southfield.

> Confirmed, per Mike Bader:
> NEW MEETING LOCATION!
> The Engineering Society of Detroit
> 20700 Civic Center Drive, Suite 450, 4th Floor
> Southfield, MI 48076-4140
> NOTE: Additional parking at the north side (back side) of the building.

> Map: http://tinyurl.com/semco-new

Also per MB, the times are the same as they were at the AM facility.

~~ Michael Rudas
    My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
    My software blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com
    My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/3wt54n


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Tue Mar  3 23:29:34 2009
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 23:29:34 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] "Linux Format" March issue available for download
Message-ID: <b67fb0380903032029x325451e4rc85ce948e6efae71@mail.gmail.com>

The "KDE issue" of "Linux Format" is available for download for a
limited 24 hour period.  The fun begins today at midnight GMT/UTC.
The magazine is in PDF format and the DVD is available as an ISO; both
are torrents.

<http://www.tuxradar.com/content/linux-format-free-download-24-hours-only>

... so it's available until 7 p.m. our time...

~~ Michael Rudas
    My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
    My software blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com
    My Protopage links: http://TinyURL.com/3wt54n


From micorral at comcast.net  Wed Mar  4 01:29:29 2009
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 01:29:29 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] "Linux Format" March issue available for download
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380903032029x325451e4rc85ce948e6efae71@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380903032029x325451e4rc85ce948e6efae71@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0903040125130.2785@banana.sluggo.net>

2009-03-03, Monsieur Michael Rudas a ecrit:
> The magazine is in PDF format and the DVD is available as an ISO; both
> are torrents.
>
> <http://www.tuxradar.com/content/linux-format-free-download-24-hours-only>

Heh, they put "Linux Format" in a zip file (linux_format_116.zip)!
Zip doesn't strike me as the most Linux-y of archive formats. :)

Michael


From set at pobox.com  Wed Mar  4 04:04:16 2009
From: set at pobox.com (Paul)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 04:04:16 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] "Linux Format" March issue available for download
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0903040125130.2785@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <b67fb0380903032029x325451e4rc85ce948e6efae71@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903040125130.2785@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <20090304090416.GC6073@squish.home.loc>

Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net>, on Wed Mar 04, 2009 [01:29:29 AM] said:
> 2009-03-03, Monsieur Michael Rudas a ecrit:
> > The magazine is in PDF format and the DVD is available as an ISO; both
> > are torrents.
> >
> > <http://www.tuxradar.com/content/linux-format-free-download-24-hours-only>
> 
> Heh, they put "Linux Format" in a zip file (linux_format_116.zip)!
> Zip doesn't strike me as the most Linux-y of archive formats. :)
> 
> Michael

	Hi;

	No doubt! No one would want to associate Linux with the likes
of Java JAR files, python .egg files, silverlight and that ilk. And
then there are ODF files, google earth, and mozilla firefox add-ons...
WAIT!@#

Paul
set at pobox.com

ps. its all about CPIO...


From driveray at ameritech.net  Wed Mar  4 07:37:51 2009
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 07:37:51 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] "Linux Format" March issue available for download
In-Reply-To: <20090304090416.GC6073@squish.home.loc>
References: <b67fb0380903032029x325451e4rc85ce948e6efae71@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903040125130.2785@banana.sluggo.net>
	<20090304090416.GC6073@squish.home.loc>
Message-ID: <49AE761F.3040306@ameritech.net>

Paul wrote:
> Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net>, on Wed Mar 04, 2009 [01:29:29 AM] said:
>> 2009-03-03, Monsieur Michael Rudas a ecrit:
>>> The magazine is in PDF format and the DVD is available as an ISO; both
>>> are torrents.
>>>
>>> <http://www.tuxradar.com/content/linux-format-free-download-24-hours-only>
>> Heh, they put "Linux Format" in a zip file (linux_format_116.zip)!
>> Zip doesn't strike me as the most Linux-y of archive formats. :)
>>
>> Michael
> 
> 	Hi;
> 
> 	No doubt! No one would want to associate Linux with the likes
> of Java JAR files, python .egg files, silverlight and that ilk. And
> then there are ODF files, google earth, and mozilla firefox add-ons...
> WAIT!@#
> 
> Paul
> set at pobox.com
> 
> ps. its all about CPIO...

Oh yes, the old Convoluted, Perverse, Insane, Obtuse archive format. I
have been learning a bit about that.
  "In copy-out mode, cpio copies files into an archive."
  "In copy-in mode, cpio copies files out of an archive"
Makes sense to me.


From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Wed Mar  4 08:36:06 2009
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 08:36:06 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] "Linux Format" March issue available for download
In-Reply-To: <49AE761F.3040306@ameritech.net>
References: <b67fb0380903032029x325451e4rc85ce948e6efae71@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903040125130.2785@banana.sluggo.net>
	<20090304090416.GC6073@squish.home.loc>
	<49AE761F.3040306@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46924332998@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

I get schooled by pax every time.

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Raymond McLaughlin
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:38 AM
To: mdlug at mdlug.org
Subject: Re: [mdlug] "Linux Format" March issue available for download

Paul wrote:
> Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net>, on Wed Mar 04, 2009 [01:29:29 AM] said:
>> 2009-03-03, Monsieur Michael Rudas a ecrit:
>>> The magazine is in PDF format and the DVD is available as an ISO; both
>>> are torrents.
>>>
>>> <http://www.tuxradar.com/content/linux-format-free-download-24-hours-only>
>> Heh, they put "Linux Format" in a zip file (linux_format_116.zip)!
>> Zip doesn't strike me as the most Linux-y of archive formats. :)
>>
>> Michael
> 
> 	Hi;
> 
> 	No doubt! No one would want to associate Linux with the likes
> of Java JAR files, python .egg files, silverlight and that ilk. And
> then there are ODF files, google earth, and mozilla firefox add-ons...
> WAIT!@#
> 
> Paul
> set at pobox.com
> 
> ps. its all about CPIO...

Oh yes, the old Convoluted, Perverse, Insane, Obtuse archive format. I
have been learning a bit about that.
  "In copy-out mode, cpio copies files into an archive."
  "In copy-in mode, cpio copies files out of an archive"
Makes sense to me.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From brian at dangerbacon.com  Wed Mar  4 08:50:24 2009
From: brian at dangerbacon.com (Brian)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 08:50:24 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] "Linux Format" March issue available for download
In-Reply-To: <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46924332998@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
References: <b67fb0380903032029x325451e4rc85ce948e6efae71@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903040125130.2785@banana.sluggo.net>
	<20090304090416.GC6073@squish.home.loc>
	<49AE761F.3040306@ameritech.net>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46924332998@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
Message-ID: <6f64e9540903040550i7ff2030fs19d46cd261d87e86@mail.gmail.com>

Those are all so weak, they should have released it as a shar!

On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 8:36 AM, Wojtak, Greg <GregWojtak at quickenloans.com>wrote:

> I get schooled by pax every time.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
> Of Raymond McLaughlin
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:38 AM
> To: mdlug at mdlug.org
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] "Linux Format" March issue available for download
>
> Paul wrote:
> > Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net>, on Wed Mar 04, 2009 [01:29:29 AM]
> said:
> >> 2009-03-03, Monsieur Michael Rudas a ecrit:
> >>> The magazine is in PDF format and the DVD is available as an ISO; both
> >>> are torrents.
> >>>
> >>> <
> http://www.tuxradar.com/content/linux-format-free-download-24-hours-only>
> >> Heh, they put "Linux Format" in a zip file (linux_format_116.zip)!
> >> Zip doesn't strike me as the most Linux-y of archive formats. :)
> >>
> >> Michael
> >
> >       Hi;
> >
> >       No doubt! No one would want to associate Linux with the likes
> > of Java JAR files, python .egg files, silverlight and that ilk. And
> > then there are ODF files, google earth, and mozilla firefox add-ons...
> > WAIT!@#
> >
> > Paul
> > set at pobox.com
> >
> > ps. its all about CPIO...
>
> Oh yes, the old Convoluted, Perverse, Insane, Obtuse archive format. I
> have been learning a bit about that.
>  "In copy-out mode, cpio copies files into an archive."
>  "In copy-in mode, cpio copies files out of an archive"
> Makes sense to me.
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>



-- 
Brian
"It's not stupid, it's advaaanced!" - Tallest Purple


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 08:57:47 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 08:57:47 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] "Linux Format" March issue available for download
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0903040125130.2785@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <b67fb0380903032029x325451e4rc85ce948e6efae71@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903040125130.2785@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <49AE88DB.8090204@gmail.com>

Michael Corral wrote:
> 2009-03-03, Monsieur Michael Rudas a ecrit:
>> The magazine is in PDF format and the DVD is available as an ISO; both
>> are torrents.
>>
>> <http://www.tuxradar.com/content/linux-format-free-download-24-hours-only>
> 
> Heh, they put "Linux Format" in a zip file (linux_format_116.zip)!
> Zip doesn't strike me as the most Linux-y of archive formats. :)

That's so those who don't yet have Linux can use it.

Suppose you're trying to MIGRATE to Linux, but have no Linux
machine available... then .zip is the best fileformat.


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 09:06:01 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 09:06:01 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] "Linux Format" March issue available for download
In-Reply-To: <20090304090416.GC6073@squish.home.loc>
References: <b67fb0380903032029x325451e4rc85ce948e6efae71@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903040125130.2785@banana.sluggo.net>
	<20090304090416.GC6073@squish.home.loc>
Message-ID: <49AE8AC9.4000502@gmail.com>

Paul wrote:
> Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net>, on Wed Mar 04, 2009 [01:29:29 AM] said:
>> 2009-03-03, Monsieur Michael Rudas a ecrit:
>>> The magazine is in PDF format and the DVD is available as an ISO; both
>>> are torrents.
>>>
>>> <http://www.tuxradar.com/content/linux-format-free-download-24-hours-only>
>> Heh, they put "Linux Format" in a zip file (linux_format_116.zip)!
>> Zip doesn't strike me as the most Linux-y of archive formats. :)
>>
>> Michael
> 
> 	Hi;
> 
> 	No doubt! No one would want to associate Linux with the likes
> of Java JAR files, python .egg files, silverlight and that ilk. And
> then there are ODF files, google earth, and mozilla firefox add-ons...
> WAIT!@#
> 
> Paul
> set at pobox.com
> 
> ps. its all about CPIO...

25 1/2 years of using *nix, including over a decade as a sysadmin
and systems engineer, and I've never once used cpio....

Probably because with tar, the file catalog is contained within
the tar file, whereas a cpio archive requires that all files
added to the archive be maintained in a separate list.


From john_re at fastmail.us  Wed Mar  4 09:19:32 2009
From: john_re at fastmail.us (john_re)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 06:19:32 -0800
Subject: [mdlug] Global Linux Meeting March 7 Sat BerkeleyTIP -Global - For
	Forwarding
Message-ID: <1236176372.7932.1303588033@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Hi Mark, MDLUGgers :)

Mark - (I've got the correct Mark, right?) Why don't you organize a
local simultaneous meeting this Saturday? Then a group of yall can join
in.  :)

Hey - ain't those /. folks not too far from you?  Any chance you got an
inside track to getting this meeting announced there?  ;)

====
Ekiga(Gnome meeting), Asterisk, Xen, Virtualbox, Debian 15 Years, Free
and Open Future, Amarok, ZFS, FreeBSD, Python, OLPC


=====  SCHEDULE
Schedule: All times Pacific Std Time = GMT -8H 
             ex: 10A PST = 1P Eastern ST
10 A    Begin:  Set up.  Get on IRC & VOIP
11 A    Ekiga3 talk LIVE
        INSTALLFEST begin
12 N    Asterisk, OLPC;
        PROGRAMMING PARTY: VOIP Conference client & server
 1 P    Xen, Virtualbox; GNOME
 2 P    KDE ? GUI; Macintosh
 3 P    Debian; BSD; College & University groups
 4 P    Free & Open Future; Culture; Hardware
 5 P    LIGHTNING TALKS
        Python; INetWebDev; Local Simultaneous Meetings Arrangements


=====  PHYSICAL LOCATION: UC Berkeley FREE SPEECH CAFE
At Moffitt Undergrad Library.
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=37.872558,-122.260795&spn=0.001776,0.002529&z=19
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/directions
BART: Berkeley Downtown Station.
Caltrain: Berkeley Station, bus up University to campus.
Car: 880 Freeway, University Exit.

=====  IRC & VOIP
Join IRC freenode.net #berkeleytip, & we'll help you get on VOIP
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/remote-attendance


===== Come to the: Great global meeting planned for this Saturday!  :)

Yes!  You can join in with the friendly global BTIP people - get a
headset & join the VOIP conference, from home, or wherever.  Hey -
invite your friends over & you can haz parte.  ;)

Be the first in your state - or country - to join in.  Since Chaitanya
joined from India in February, we have now officially moved up to
global.  :)

BerkeleyTIP - Global Monthly GNU(Linux), BSD & All Free SW HW & Culture
meeting.
Talks, Installfest, Potluck & ProgrammingParty
Educational, Productive, Social
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/


=====  TALKS:  11A LIVE, - DOWNLOAD & WATCH VIDEOS BEFORE
Ekiga 3 on KUbuntu 8.04 - Chaitanya Mehandru, LIVE 11AM PST = GMT -8H
Asterisk Free Software Telephone System - Paul Charles Leddy, NYLUG-08
Xen Virtualization - Ian Pratt, FOSDEM-08
Virtualbox, Achim Hasenmueller, FOSDEM-08
Debian, Bdale Garbee, FOSDEM-09
Free and Open Future - Mark Surman, FOSDEM-09
Amarok v2 - Akademy-08
Debian: 15 Years and Counting - Steve McIntyre, Debconf-08 - Keynote
ZFS for FreeBSD - Pawel Jakub Dawidek, MeetBSD-08
Python on the OLPC laptop -  Ed Cherlin, BayPIGgies-08

Links to the videos & more info here:
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/talk-videos
Suggestion:  Download & watch the videos _you_ are interested in
_before_ the meeting, so you can spend the scheduled topic time
_discussing_ that talk.

All the talk/video speakers are invited to join in for Q&A & discussion.
[Please pass that word on to the speakers, because I probably wont have
time to notify them individually.]

Thanks to all the speakerz, videographerz, & sponsoring groupiez.  :)
& doubble plus big thanks to David Fox, r noo talk/vid finder/scheduler.
 :)

==  LIGHTNING TALKS - 5PM - Sign up anytime.


=====  PROGRAMMING PARTY:
1) Help get Ekiga 3 compiled, running & packaged for KUbuntu8.04
2) Help get a local Asterisk VOIP conference server working.
3) Whatever _you_ are interested in - Email the list inviting us to join
on your project.  :)


=====  PEOPLE ARE TALKING:
Chris said:  the meeting went very well for Feb. 7.

Windsor said:  I am interested in Jack's
idea of focusing a group on promotion of Linux as a desktop operating
system and targeting perspective Linux users. I'm enthusiastic about
doing something to this effect, like hosting an install night, standing
in Sproul Plaza near a card table, etc..

David said:  the USB headset I ordered and will
pick up at the post office tomorrow - 
Markt9 (from virtual lug) told me that it was a very nice one. I can't
wait until I get the chance to try it live.

& Windsor says: I posted some guidelines for people editing the web
page. Also, (and I'm not trying to be a kill-joy) I think the smilies
should be left in IRC and private e-mails. Every time I see one on the
site I think of myspace.com or icanhazcheeseburger.com.

john_re says: Thanks for the tipz, everyone. - I'll keep 'em in mind. 
;)

ps: & more doubbble pluz big thanks to Windsor, for the new website
design.  :)

[Someone, call the doctor, got a case of love bipolar.  Staccato, roller
coaster, can't get off this riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide.]
http://equine-ranch.com/horseinfo.php?horseid=240482


=====  JOIN THE MAILING LIST
& say "Hi", where you're from, what you're interested in, & whatever
project you invite others to join in on.
http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal
Click "Join this group" on the right side of the page.


=====  FLYER
- Opportunity - Put 10 up so your friends will know.
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/home/March09_BTIPFlyer.odt?attredirects=0


====  FOR FORWARDING -
You are invited to forward this message anywhere appropriate.

C-ya there :)


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 10:33:14 2009
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 10:33:14 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Archive formats (was "Linux Format" March issue
	available for download)
Message-ID: <b02c40e90903040733s313ee980v1edae9e03468baf1@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/4/09, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Suppose you're trying to MIGRATE to Linux, but have no Linux
> machine available... then .zip is the best fileformat.

7-Zip is better.  It has a higher compression ratio.  Common Linux
archives tar/gz and tar/bzip2 are pathetically slow because they have
to be uncompressed first and then extract out the file listing from
the tar.  If I open a large archive like a Windows VMware image
(2-8GB) it can take 15 minutes just to get a file listing.  If I use
7-Zip it takes only seconds.  Extraction is faster also; I think that
most Linux tools extract the tar first and then its contents which
takes longer and uses up a lot of disk space.  Of course 7-Zip doesn't
support *nix file permissions but it's rarely an issue for me.


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 10:59:49 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 10:59:49 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Archive formats (was "Linux Format" March issue
 available for download)
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90903040733s313ee980v1edae9e03468baf1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e90903040733s313ee980v1edae9e03468baf1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49AEA575.6070001@gmail.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> On 3/4/09, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Suppose you're trying to MIGRATE to Linux, but have no Linux
>> machine available... then .zip is the best fileformat.
> 
> 7-Zip is better.  It has a higher compression ratio.  Common Linux
> archives tar/gz and tar/bzip2 are pathetically slow because they have
> to be uncompressed first and then extract out the file listing from
> the tar.

not at all:
tar xvf  somearchive.tar
tar xzvf somearchive.tar.gz


 

>     If I open a large archive like a Windows VMware image
> (2-8GB) it can take 15 minutes just to get a file listing.  If I use
> 7-Zip it takes only seconds.  Extraction is faster also; I think that

But who widespread is software which reads 7-zip archives,
not only on Linux, but most importantly, on Windows and OSX?

> most Linux tools extract the tar first and then its contents which
> takes longer and uses up a lot of disk space.  Of course 7-Zip doesn't
> support *nix file permissions but it's rarely an issue for me.

So in otherwords, it's has all of the disadvantages of
pkZIP format, with none of the installed base, although
it does extract faster -- which generally doesn't matter
because with compressed archives, the recipient generally
uses them once, and then either stores them, or removes
them from the system.

I think you're missing the big picture.


From tesral at wowway.com  Wed Mar  4 11:50:06 2009
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 11:50:06 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] "Linux Format" March issue available for download
In-Reply-To: <49AE761F.3040306@ameritech.net>
References: <b67fb0380903032029x325451e4rc85ce948e6efae71@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903040125130.2785@banana.sluggo.net>	<20090304090416.GC6073@squish.home.loc>
	<49AE761F.3040306@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <49AEB13E.2000408@wowway.com>

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Paul wrote:
>   
>> Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net>, on Wed Mar 04, 2009 [01:29:29 AM] said:
>>     
>>> 2009-03-03, Monsieur Michael Rudas a ecrit:
>>>       
>>>> The magazine is in PDF format and the DVD is available as an ISO; both
>>>> are torrents.
>>>>
>>>> <http://www.tuxradar.com/content/linux-format-free-download-24-hours-only>
>>>>         
>>> Heh, they put "Linux Format" in a zip file (linux_format_116.zip)!
>>> Zip doesn't strike me as the most Linux-y of archive formats. :)
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>       
>> 	Hi;
>>
>> 	No doubt! No one would want to associate Linux with the likes
>> of Java JAR files, python .egg files, silverlight and that ilk. And
>> then there are ODF files, google earth, and mozilla firefox add-ons...
>> WAIT!@#
>>
>> Paul
>> set at pobox.com
>>
>> ps. its all about CPIO...
>>     
>
> Oh yes, the old Convoluted, Perverse, Insane, Obtuse archive format. I
> have been learning a bit about that.
>   "In copy-out mode, cpio copies files into an archive."
>   "In copy-in mode, cpio copies files out of an archive"
> Makes sense to me.
>   

Sounds a bit like DMS.  Useful, but back ass-ward in the command line
syntax. 

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From tesral at wowway.com  Wed Mar  4 11:51:38 2009
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 11:51:38 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] "Linux Format" March issue available for download
In-Reply-To: <49AE88DB.8090204@gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380903032029x325451e4rc85ce948e6efae71@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903040125130.2785@banana.sluggo.net>
	<49AE88DB.8090204@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49AEB19A.30108@wowway.com>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> That's so those who don't yet have Linux can use it.
>
> Suppose you're trying to MIGRATE to Linux, but have no Linux
> machine available... then .zip is the best fileformat.
>   
I just felt the Earth shift, I'm agreeing with Aaron.  Zip is the most
common compression format and everyone but EVERYONE has it.


-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From radkins at impelind.com  Wed Mar  4 12:25:24 2009
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 12:25:24 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Archive formats (was "Linux Format" March issue
	available for download)
In-Reply-To: <49AEA575.6070001@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090304175044.BB531C0D8@impelind.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Kulkis
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 11:00 AM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Archive formats (was "Linux Format" 
> March issue available for download)
> 
> 
> But who widespread is software which reads 7-zip archives, 
> not only on Linux, but most importantly, on Windows and OSX?
> 

  7-zip runs on... everything. It's an open source program available for
quite a few platforms. Although, I must say that I never use its native
format. I use it to create and open up zip files, period.

-Rob



From bfotiu at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 12:57:23 2009
From: bfotiu at gmail.com (Brandon)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 12:57:23 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Archive formats (was "Linux Format" March
 issue	available for download)
In-Reply-To: <20090304175044.BB531C0D8@impelind.com>
References: <20090304175044.BB531C0D8@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <49AEC103.3060806@gmail.com>

Robert Adkins wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
>> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Kulkis
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 11:00 AM
>> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
>> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Archive formats (was "Linux Format" 
>> March issue available for download)
>>
>>
>> But who widespread is software which reads 7-zip archives, 
>> not only on Linux, but most importantly, on Windows and OSX?
>>
>>     
>
>   7-zip runs on... everything. It's an open source program available for
> quite a few platforms. Although, I must say that I never use its native
> format. I use it to create and open up zip files, period.
>
> -Rob
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>   


For whatever reason Microsoft made .zip files transparent to users (they 
just open as a folder would) and that's why it's what I use exclusively 
at work.  Of course I do use the 7-zip shell extension to make all my 
.zip files.  Try sending a .rar around here and you'll just get a bunch 
of blank stares.  Zip is fine in this case, especially since it's a one 
time use archive.

Brandon


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 14:12:16 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 14:12:16 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Archive formats (was "Linux Format" March issue
 available for download)
In-Reply-To: <20090304175044.BB531C0D8@impelind.com>
References: <20090304175044.BB531C0D8@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <49AED290.5090706@gmail.com>

Robert Adkins wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
>> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Kulkis
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 11:00 AM
>> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
>> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Archive formats (was "Linux Format" 
>> March issue available for download)
>>
>>
>> But who widespread is software which reads 7-zip archives, 
>> not only on Linux, but most importantly, on Windows and OSX?
>>
> 
>   7-zip runs on... everything.

But what's the installed base?

What percentage of users even know where to get 7-zip?

I'm not saying that it's a bad format -- only that it's
not appropriate for the purpose for which the archives
in question are being distributed.

The goal is to make the data as easily available to as
many people as possible, NOT to optimize decompression
time.

> It's an open source program available for
> quite a few platforms. Although, I must say that I never use its native
> format. I use it to create and open up zip files, period.
> 
> -Rob


From micorral at comcast.net  Wed Mar  4 15:28:05 2009
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 15:28:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] "Linux Format" March issue available for download
In-Reply-To: <20090304090416.GC6073@squish.home.loc>
References: <b67fb0380903032029x325451e4rc85ce948e6efae71@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903040125130.2785@banana.sluggo.net>
	<20090304090416.GC6073@squish.home.loc>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0903041515430.2182@banana.sluggo.net>

2009-03-04, Monsieur Paul a ecrit:
> Michael Corral, on Wed Mar 04, 2009 [01:29:29 AM] said:
>> Heh, they put "Linux Format" in a zip file (linux_format_116.zip)!
>> Zip doesn't strike me as the most Linux-y of archive formats. :)
>
> 	No doubt! No one would want to associate Linux with the likes
> of Java JAR files, python .egg files, silverlight and that ilk. And
> then there are ODF files, google earth, and mozilla firefox add-ons...
> WAIT!@#

Wow, that is strikingly similar to the third paragraph of the Wikipedia
article on the zip format, even preserving the order in which those
formats are mentioned!: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.zip

"Examples of this usage are Java JAR files, Python .egg files, SilverLight
.xap files...as well as OpenDocument and Office Open XML office formats...
Google Earth makes use of KMZ files...Mozilla Firefox Add-ons are zip
files with extension "xpi"."

You're ripping off the internets! :p

> ps. its all about CPIO...

But cpio has nothing on pax...

Michael


From micorral at comcast.net  Wed Mar  4 15:34:05 2009
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 15:34:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] "Linux Format" March issue available for download
In-Reply-To: <6f64e9540903040550i7ff2030fs19d46cd261d87e86@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380903032029x325451e4rc85ce948e6efae71@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903040125130.2785@banana.sluggo.net>
	<20090304090416.GC6073@squish.home.loc>
	<49AE761F.3040306@ameritech.net>
	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46924332998@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<6f64e9540903040550i7ff2030fs19d46cd261d87e86@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0903041533120.2741@banana.sluggo.net>

2009-03-04, Monsieur Brian a ecrit:
> Those are all so weak, they should have released it as a shar!

shar? Bah! That's for weaklings who can't handle ar, the UNIX archiver!

Michael


From tesral at wowway.com  Wed Mar  4 15:35:13 2009
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 15:35:13 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] "Linux Format" March issue available for download
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0903041533120.2741@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <b67fb0380903032029x325451e4rc85ce948e6efae71@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903040125130.2785@banana.sluggo.net>	<20090304090416.GC6073@squish.home.loc>	<49AE761F.3040306@ameritech.net>	<9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE46924332998@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>	<6f64e9540903040550i7ff2030fs19d46cd261d87e86@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903041533120.2741@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <49AEE601.4050307@wowway.com>

Michael Corral wrote:
> 2009-03-04, Monsieur Brian a ecrit:
>   
>> Those are all so weak, they should have released it as a shar!
>>     
>
> shar? Bah! That's for weaklings who can't handle ar, the UNIX archiver!
>   

ZOO


-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From micorral at comcast.net  Wed Mar  4 15:38:06 2009
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 15:38:06 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] "Linux Format" March issue available for download
In-Reply-To: <49AE88DB.8090204@gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380903032029x325451e4rc85ce948e6efae71@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903040125130.2785@banana.sluggo.net>
	<49AE88DB.8090204@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0903041534420.2741@banana.sluggo.net>

2009-03-04, Monsieur Aaron Kulkis a ecrit:
> Michael Corral wrote:
>> Heh, they put "Linux Format" in a zip file (linux_format_116.zip)!
>> Zip doesn't strike me as the most Linux-y of archive formats. :)
>
> That's so those who don't yet have Linux can use it.

I know that you haven't used Windows since 1994, but WinZip (the most
widely-used zip software) has been able to handle tar.gz files since
forever. And of course Mac OS X users would have no trouble with tar.gz
either.

Michael


From micorral at comcast.net  Wed Mar  4 15:47:06 2009
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 15:47:06 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] "Linux Format" March issue available for download
In-Reply-To: <49AE8AC9.4000502@gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380903032029x325451e4rc85ce948e6efae71@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903040125130.2785@banana.sluggo.net>
	<20090304090416.GC6073@squish.home.loc>
	<49AE8AC9.4000502@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0903041540130.2839@banana.sluggo.net>

2009-03-04, Monsieur Aaron Kulkis a ecrit:
> Paul wrote:
>> ps. its all about CPIO...
>
> 25 1/2 years of using *nix, including over a decade as a sysadmin
> and systems engineer, and I've never once used cpio....

Then you haven't been paying attention. :) Since you use openSuse,
you are actually using cpio without knowing it. Try "rpm -e cpio"
and see what happens. RPM packages contain cpio archives.

Michael


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 16:31:46 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 16:31:46 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] "Linux Format" March issue available for download
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0903041534420.2741@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <b67fb0380903032029x325451e4rc85ce948e6efae71@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903040125130.2785@banana.sluggo.net>	<49AE88DB.8090204@gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903041534420.2741@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <49AEF342.8000005@gmail.com>

Michael Corral wrote:
> 2009-03-04, Monsieur Aaron Kulkis a ecrit:
>> Michael Corral wrote:
>>> Heh, they put "Linux Format" in a zip file (linux_format_116.zip)!
>>> Zip doesn't strike me as the most Linux-y of archive formats. :)
>> That's so those who don't yet have Linux can use it.
> 
> I know that you haven't used Windows

not by choice

> since 1994,

actually, I never had a computer at home until I built
one in 1997 (before then, I just used the computers at
work... not that there was much I needed a computer for
back in those days anyways)

> but WinZip (the most
> widely-used zip software) has been able to handle tar.gz files since
> forever. And of course Mac OS X users would have no trouble with tar.gz
> either.

I was talking about the 7zip software being not widely
installed.  But I can see your point on tar.gz.

I always find it ridiculous when I see something specifically
for Linux being distributed in .zip format.  Immediately makes
me suspect the source -- "recent immigrant from Windows -- proceed
with caution! They probably made many silly MS-based assumptions
about how things should be configured and operate."

> 
> Michael


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 17:02:30 2009
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 17:02:30 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Archive formats (was "Linux Format" March issue
	available for download)
In-Reply-To: <49AED290.5090706@gmail.com>
References: <20090304175044.BB531C0D8@impelind.com>
	<49AED290.5090706@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90903041402p152c4e96k244e516eb7269f21@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
> But what's the installed base?
>
> What percentage of users even know where to get 7-zip?
>
> I'm not saying that it's a bad format -- only that it's
> not appropriate for the purpose for which the archives
> in question are being distributed.

The .7z format is obviously not as popular as zip.  But zip is not a
great standard either as there have been different incompatible
implementations over the years (WinZip being responsible for a lot of
them).  My favorite are the ones that store full paths with the
filenames instead of a hierarchy so you end up with a single directory
of 100+ character filenames with forward slashes.  On the warez scene
I see mostly RAR and some bizarre combinations like RARs of zips.  ACE
is very rare.  Microsoft's archive format of choice was CAB.

But ARC was the original compression format on DOS and Phil Katz
cloned that first with PKARC before developing PKZip.  The popularity
of ARC didn't keep it on top.  If you had a zip file that you didn't
know how to open then you just asked someone for help.

> The goal is to make the data as easily available to as
> many people as possible, NOT to optimize decompression
> time.
>

So do you mail DOC and XLS files to people?  I don't.  If they need to
open my files then they can download OOo for free.  I only send DOC
and XLS when somebody is paying me to.  Clicking File > Save As and
having to select a format is more effort than I feel is necessary and
I expect to be compensated for it.

Since 7-Zip is free and has better compression and standardization
than any implementation of zip that I've tried then I don't have a
problem telling people to download it either.

I'm not going to let the popularity of one "industry standard" limit
my technological advancement using another.


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 18:18:47 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 18:18:47 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Archive formats (was "Linux Format" March issue
 available for download)
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90903041402p152c4e96k244e516eb7269f21@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090304175044.BB531C0D8@impelind.com>	<49AED290.5090706@gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90903041402p152c4e96k244e516eb7269f21@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49AF0C57.8040700@gmail.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> But what's the installed base?
>>
>> What percentage of users even know where to get 7-zip?
>>
>> I'm not saying that it's a bad format -- only that it's
>> not appropriate for the purpose for which the archives
>> in question are being distributed.
> 
> The .7z format is obviously not as popular as zip.  But zip is not a
> great standard either as there have been different incompatible
> implementations over the years (WinZip being responsible for a lot of
> them).  My favorite are the ones that store full paths with the
> filenames instead of a hierarchy so you end up with a single directory
> of 100+ character filenames with forward slashes.  On the warez scene
> I see mostly RAR and some bizarre combinations like RARs of zips.  ACE
> is very rare.  Microsoft's archive format of choice was CAB.
> 
> But ARC was the original compression format on DOS and Phil Katz
> cloned that first with PKARC before developing PKZip.  The popularity
> of ARC didn't keep it on top.  If you had a zip file that you didn't
> know how to open then you just asked someone for help.
> 
>> The goal is to make the data as easily available to as
>> many people as possible, NOT to optimize decompression
>> time.
>>
> 
> So do you mail DOC and XLS files to people?

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
The army, unfortunately, is standardized on .doc and .xls :-(,
although there is a movement afoot in the Pentagon to change that.

Someone has raised the point that giving the old Heave Ho to
MS Office would save the DOD substantial amounts of money which
could be better used for R&D to protect service personnel from
mines, IED's and EFP's.

>                                         I don't.  If they need to
> open my files then they can download OOo for free.  I only send DOC
> and XLS when somebody is paying me to.  Clicking File > Save As and
> having to select a format is more effort than I feel is necessary and
> I expect to be compensated for it.


Hahahah.

> 
> Since 7-Zip is free and has better compression and standardization
> than any implementation of zip that I've tried then I don't have a
> problem telling people to download it either.
> 
> I'm not going to let the popularity of one "industry standard" limit
> my technological advancement using another.

I have no problem with the idea or even spreading the use of
the .7z format.  What I'm saying is this -- don't erect
obscure barriers (a not-widely-known format) to information
that you want disseminated as widely as possible -- that's
just plain counter-productive.

The intent is that these downloads will be copied to the
computers of many Windows users... probably many who are
in locked-down Windows environments, in which only the
"lowest common denominator" type standards are used, and
the individual user's ability to load something like 7zip
to read the archive just plain old can't be relied upon.

It's basic communication -- speak in a language that your
audience understands.

If instead, I wrote this posting in Russian, NOBODY on
this list would understand what I was trying to say.
Same thing goes for distributing a download in an archive
format which most people don't know how to open up because
the required software is not on their computer, they don't
know where to get the software, and even if they did, a
large number couldn't install the software anyways because
their workplace desktop is locked down hard because Windows
inherently vulnerable to malware otherwise.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 18:36:33 2009
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 18:36:33 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Archive formats (was "Linux Format" March issue
	available for download)
In-Reply-To: <49AF0C57.8040700@gmail.com>
References: <20090304175044.BB531C0D8@impelind.com>
	<49AED290.5090706@gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90903041402p152c4e96k244e516eb7269f21@mail.gmail.com>
	<49AF0C57.8040700@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90903041536gda8735crf8f7082482f3f24b@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 6:18 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
> The intent is that these downloads will be copied to the
> computers of many Windows users... probably many who are
> in locked-down Windows environments, in which only the
> "lowest common denominator" type standards are used, and
> the individual user's ability to load something like 7zip
> to read the archive just plain old can't be relied upon.
>

Well it depends on the company.  If they're relying on the Windows
built-in archive support then it's a problem.  Many companies use
WinZip which supports it and so do most of the popular third-party
archivers (depending on the version):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_file_archivers#Archive_format_support

For the average Linux magazine reader the solution is only a Knoppix
or DSL CD away. :D


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 18:45:24 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 18:45:24 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Archive formats (was "Linux Format" March issue
 available for download)
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90903041536gda8735crf8f7082482f3f24b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090304175044.BB531C0D8@impelind.com>	<49AED290.5090706@gmail.com>	<b02c40e90903041402p152c4e96k244e516eb7269f21@mail.gmail.com>	<49AF0C57.8040700@gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90903041536gda8735crf8f7082482f3f24b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49AF1294.80209@gmail.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 6:18 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> The intent is that these downloads will be copied to the
>> computers of many Windows users... probably many who are
>> in locked-down Windows environments, in which only the
>> "lowest common denominator" type standards are used, and
>> the individual user's ability to load something like 7zip
>> to read the archive just plain old can't be relied upon.
>>
> 
> Well it depends on the company.

So, your proposing that the Linux Format wants their
archive read only by certain people, "depend[ing] on
the company" that they work at?

>  If they're relying on the Windows
> built-in archive support then it's a problem.

Which is precisely why the released it in .zip format,
and not a format normally associated with *nix.

>                                                 Many companies use
> WinZip which supports it and so do most of the popular third-party
> archivers (depending on the version):

Many do...and many others don't.

Large companies buy Winzip.  Smaller companies sometimes do
and sometimes don't, and many just use the .zip tool that
comes with baseline Windows -- and these businesses are the
very ones MOST EASILY converted to Linux -- because they
have fewer "must run Windows" applications.

> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_file_archivers#Archive_format_support
> 
> For the average Linux magazine reader the solution is only a Knoppix
> or DSL CD away. :D

Same problem -- most of these same computers, for company
data security reasons, have no optical drives, or the
optical drive is usable ONLY by a Windows Certified Button-Clicker,
as opposed to the luser who is a Windows Button-Clicker,
but not Certified at it.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 19:35:20 2009
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 19:35:20 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Archive formats (was "Linux Format" March issue
	available for download)
In-Reply-To: <49AF1294.80209@gmail.com>
References: <20090304175044.BB531C0D8@impelind.com>
	<49AED290.5090706@gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90903041402p152c4e96k244e516eb7269f21@mail.gmail.com>
	<49AF0C57.8040700@gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90903041536gda8735crf8f7082482f3f24b@mail.gmail.com>
	<49AF1294.80209@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90903041635u7a4629abkeadad47ef03d65aa@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 6:45 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Same problem -- most of these same computers, for company
> data security reasons, have no optical drives, or the
> optical drive is usable ONLY by a Windows Certified Button-Clicker,
> as opposed to the luser who is a Windows Button-Clicker,
> but not Certified at it.

True, but now we're really getting into improbable Linux Format
readers who work in a Windows environment that is locked down that
securely and don't have a less-secured computer and Internet
connection at home.


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 19:43:32 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 19:43:32 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Archive formats (was "Linux Format" March issue
 available for download)
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90903041402p152c4e96k244e516eb7269f21@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090304175044.BB531C0D8@impelind.com>	<49AED290.5090706@gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90903041402p152c4e96k244e516eb7269f21@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49AF2034.7040204@gmail.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> But what's the installed base?
>>
>> What percentage of users even know where to get 7-zip?
>>
>> I'm not saying that it's a bad format -- only that it's
>> not appropriate for the purpose for which the archives
>> in question are being distributed.
> 
> The .7z format is obviously not as popular as zip.  But zip is not a
> great standard either as there have been different incompatible
> implementations over the years (WinZip being responsible for a lot of
> them).  My favorite are the ones that store full paths with the
> filenames instead of a hierarchy so you end up with a single directory
> of 100+ character filenames with forward slashes.

Other than system software, people who make archives with
absolute pathnames should be beaten over the head with
their own computer so that they never do it again.

> On the warez scene
> I see mostly RAR and some bizarre combinations like RARs of zips.  ACE
> is very rare.  Microsoft's archive format of choice was CAB.

As I recall, RAR has the advantage of being easily divided
into smaller files

.rar => .rar00, .rar01, .rar02...

without the Unix command "split", which, for some strange reason,
has STILL not been discovered and migrated by the Windows world.
(nor it's complement, "cat" which can be used to re-concatenate
file chunks back into the original file)

RAR was extremely important when system memory sizes started
climbing, but the largest removable media was still the old
3.5" floppy. 


From tesral at wowway.com  Wed Mar  4 19:48:52 2009
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 19:48:52 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Archive formats (was "Linux Format" March issue
 available for download)
In-Reply-To: <49AF0C57.8040700@gmail.com>
References: <20090304175044.BB531C0D8@impelind.com>	<49AED290.5090706@gmail.com>	<b02c40e90903041402p152c4e96k244e516eb7269f21@mail.gmail.com>
	<49AF0C57.8040700@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49AF2174.2080407@wowway.com>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>
> If instead, I wrote this posting in Russian, NOBODY on
> this list would understand what I was trying to say.

?????????? ? ???? ??????????? ?????????.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 20:50:41 2009
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 20:50:41 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Archive formats (was "Linux Format" March issue
	available for download)
In-Reply-To: <49AF2034.7040204@gmail.com>
References: <20090304175044.BB531C0D8@impelind.com>
	<49AED290.5090706@gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90903041402p152c4e96k244e516eb7269f21@mail.gmail.com>
	<49AF2034.7040204@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90903041750i2508b057r6005a0f069a83d16@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
> As I recall, RAR has the advantage of being easily divided
> into smaller files
>
> .rar => .rar00, .rar01, .rar02...

Can be done with most current archive formats including zip.

> without the Unix command "split", which, for some strange reason,
> has STILL not been discovered and migrated by the Windows world.
> (nor it's complement, "cat" which can be used to re-concatenate
> file chunks back into the original file)

There's a bunch of third-party ones but nothing that's standard with the OS.

> RAR was extremely important when system memory sizes started
> climbing, but the largest removable media was still the old
> 3.5" floppy.

In the warez scene, file splitting is still used with online storage
accounts that have maximum file size limits.  It also used to be a way
to reduce reattempt costs if corruption occurred during transfer,
sometimes supplemented with Parchive:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parchive

Not as much an issue with a more stable Internet and protocols that
correct on the fly like BitTorrent.


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 20:56:29 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 20:56:29 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Archive formats (was "Linux Format" March issue
 available for download)
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90903041750i2508b057r6005a0f069a83d16@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090304175044.BB531C0D8@impelind.com>	<49AED290.5090706@gmail.com>	<b02c40e90903041402p152c4e96k244e516eb7269f21@mail.gmail.com>	<49AF2034.7040204@gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90903041750i2508b057r6005a0f069a83d16@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49AF314D.9040508@gmail.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> As I recall, RAR has the advantage of being easily divided
>> into smaller files
>>
>> .rar => .rar00, .rar01, .rar02...
> 
> Can be done with most current archive formats including zip.
> 
>> without the Unix command "split", which, for some strange reason,
>> has STILL not been discovered and migrated by the Windows world.
>> (nor it's complement, "cat" which can be used to re-concatenate
>> file chunks back into the original file)
> 
> There's a bunch of third-party ones but nothing that's standard with the OS.
> 
>> RAR was extremely important when system memory sizes started
>> climbing, but the largest removable media was still the old
>> 3.5" floppy.
> 
> In the warez scene, file splitting is still used with online storage
> accounts that have maximum file size limits.  It also used to be a way
> to reduce reattempt costs if corruption occurred during transfer,
> sometimes supplemented with Parchive:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parchive
> 
> Not as much an issue with a more stable Internet and protocols that
> correct on the fly like BitTorrent.

TCP connections are M-error-detecting/N-error-correcting
up to N and M bits per packet, where N and M are two
integer which I don't know off hand.  Both are greater
than 1, and M is approximately 2N (either 2N+1, or 2N-1,
I forget, because it's been a 21 years since I took
EE362, Discrete and Continuous Mathematics)


From ldaphelp at thuemmel.com  Wed Mar  4 22:56:59 2009
From: ldaphelp at thuemmel.com (Mark Thuemmel)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 22:56:59 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Global Linux Meeting March 7 Sat BerkeleyTIP -Global -
	For Forwarding
In-Reply-To: <1236176372.7932.1303588033@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1236176372.7932.1303588033@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <49AF4D8B.5000600@thuemmel.com>

Hi John,

I don't think I have much pull, but here is a go at it.....

John is in a LUG in CA that meets the first Saturday of each month.  I
found them interesting in that they try to use Ekiga to VOIP the
meeting.  I have joined in the last two months.  I was able to meet a
couple of people that shared my interest in Linux and chat with them
over my Linux box and USB headset with Ekiga.  The sound quality was
great, at least until a bunch a people get in with open mics.  But
showing up early let me participate in some good chat.

The BerkleleyTIP group was great, but I was dreaming of something a bit
more frequent than once a month.  I didn't think I could commit to the
first Saturday of each month, especially with Spring around the corner.
So I started www.virtuallug.com with the idea of Ekiga meet-ups on
Thursday nights at 9:00.

So, please consider joining the BerkleyTIP this Saturday and/or
www.virtuallug.com this Thursday for some extra Linux stuff.



john_re wrote:
> Hi Mark, MDLUGgers :)
> 
> Mark - (I've got the correct Mark, right?) Why don't you organize a
> local simultaneous meeting this Saturday? Then a group of yall can join
> in.  :)
> 
> Hey - ain't those /. folks not too far from you?  Any chance you got an
> inside track to getting this meeting announced there?  ;)
> 
> ====
> Ekiga(Gnome meeting), Asterisk, Xen, Virtualbox, Debian 15 Years, Free
> and Open Future, Amarok, ZFS, FreeBSD, Python, OLPC
> 
> 
> =====  SCHEDULE
> Schedule: All times Pacific Std Time = GMT -8H 
>              ex: 10A PST = 1P Eastern ST
> 10 A    Begin:  Set up.  Get on IRC & VOIP
> 11 A    Ekiga3 talk LIVE
>         INSTALLFEST begin
> 12 N    Asterisk, OLPC;
>         PROGRAMMING PARTY: VOIP Conference client & server
>  1 P    Xen, Virtualbox; GNOME
>  2 P    KDE ? GUI; Macintosh
>  3 P    Debian; BSD; College & University groups
>  4 P    Free & Open Future; Culture; Hardware
>  5 P    LIGHTNING TALKS
>         Python; INetWebDev; Local Simultaneous Meetings Arrangements
> 
> 
> =====  PHYSICAL LOCATION: UC Berkeley FREE SPEECH CAFE
> At Moffitt Undergrad Library.
> http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=37.872558,-122.260795&spn=0.001776,0.002529&z=19
> http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/directions
> BART: Berkeley Downtown Station.
> Caltrain: Berkeley Station, bus up University to campus.
> Car: 880 Freeway, University Exit.
> 
> =====  IRC & VOIP
> Join IRC freenode.net #berkeleytip, & we'll help you get on VOIP
> http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/remote-attendance
> 
> 
> ===== Come to the: Great global meeting planned for this Saturday!  :)
> 
> Yes!  You can join in with the friendly global BTIP people - get a
> headset & join the VOIP conference, from home, or wherever.  Hey -
> invite your friends over & you can haz parte.  ;)
> 
> Be the first in your state - or country - to join in.  Since Chaitanya
> joined from India in February, we have now officially moved up to
> global.  :)
> 
> BerkeleyTIP - Global Monthly GNU(Linux), BSD & All Free SW HW & Culture
> meeting.
> Talks, Installfest, Potluck & ProgrammingParty
> Educational, Productive, Social
> http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/
> 
> 
> =====  TALKS:  11A LIVE, - DOWNLOAD & WATCH VIDEOS BEFORE
> Ekiga 3 on KUbuntu 8.04 - Chaitanya Mehandru, LIVE 11AM PST = GMT -8H
> Asterisk Free Software Telephone System - Paul Charles Leddy, NYLUG-08
> Xen Virtualization - Ian Pratt, FOSDEM-08
> Virtualbox, Achim Hasenmueller, FOSDEM-08
> Debian, Bdale Garbee, FOSDEM-09
> Free and Open Future - Mark Surman, FOSDEM-09
> Amarok v2 - Akademy-08
> Debian: 15 Years and Counting - Steve McIntyre, Debconf-08 - Keynote
> ZFS for FreeBSD - Pawel Jakub Dawidek, MeetBSD-08
> Python on the OLPC laptop -  Ed Cherlin, BayPIGgies-08
> 
> Links to the videos & more info here:
> http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/talk-videos
> Suggestion:  Download & watch the videos _you_ are interested in
> _before_ the meeting, so you can spend the scheduled topic time
> _discussing_ that talk.
> 
> All the talk/video speakers are invited to join in for Q&A & discussion.
> [Please pass that word on to the speakers, because I probably wont have
> time to notify them individually.]
> 
> Thanks to all the speakerz, videographerz, & sponsoring groupiez.  :)
> & doubble plus big thanks to David Fox, r noo talk/vid finder/scheduler.
>  :)
> 
> ==  LIGHTNING TALKS - 5PM - Sign up anytime.
> 
> 
> =====  PROGRAMMING PARTY:
> 1) Help get Ekiga 3 compiled, running & packaged for KUbuntu8.04
> 2) Help get a local Asterisk VOIP conference server working.
> 3) Whatever _you_ are interested in - Email the list inviting us to join
> on your project.  :)
> 
> 
> =====  PEOPLE ARE TALKING:
> Chris said:  the meeting went very well for Feb. 7.
> 
> Windsor said:  I am interested in Jack's
> idea of focusing a group on promotion of Linux as a desktop operating
> system and targeting perspective Linux users. I'm enthusiastic about
> doing something to this effect, like hosting an install night, standing
> in Sproul Plaza near a card table, etc..
> 
> David said:  the USB headset I ordered and will
> pick up at the post office tomorrow - 
> Markt9 (from virtual lug) told me that it was a very nice one. I can't
> wait until I get the chance to try it live.
> 
> & Windsor says: I posted some guidelines for people editing the web
> page. Also, (and I'm not trying to be a kill-joy) I think the smilies
> should be left in IRC and private e-mails. Every time I see one on the
> site I think of myspace.com or icanhazcheeseburger.com.
> 
> john_re says: Thanks for the tipz, everyone. - I'll keep 'em in mind. 
> ;)
> 
> ps: & more doubbble pluz big thanks to Windsor, for the new website
> design.  :)
> 
> [Someone, call the doctor, got a case of love bipolar.  Staccato, roller
> coaster, can't get off this riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide.]
> http://equine-ranch.com/horseinfo.php?horseid=240482
> 
> 
> =====  JOIN THE MAILING LIST
> & say "Hi", where you're from, what you're interested in, & whatever
> project you invite others to join in on.
> http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal
> Click "Join this group" on the right side of the page.
> 
> 
> =====  FLYER
> - Opportunity - Put 10 up so your friends will know.
> http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/home/March09_BTIPFlyer.odt?attredirects=0
> 
> 
> ====  FOR FORWARDING -
> You are invited to forward this message anywhere appropriate.
> 
> C-ya there :)
> 



From john_re at fastmail.us  Thu Mar  5 01:33:27 2009
From: john_re at fastmail.us (john_re)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 22:33:27 -0800
Subject: [mdlug] Global Linux Meeting March 7 Sat BerkeleyTIP -Global -
 For Forwarding
In-Reply-To: <49AF4D8B.5000600@thuemmel.com>
References: <1236176372.7932.1303588033@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<49AF4D8B.5000600@thuemmel.com>
Message-ID: <1236234807.9495.1303734933@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Great Mark!  :)

I'm gonna try to make a spot in my schedule to connect with your
virtuallug meeting tomorrow - at least long enough to say "hi". :)  
IIgotItCorrectly: 9P Detroit = Eastern time = 6PM Pacific time.

One suggestion for you:  If you're gonna try to get online with BTIP, &
are able to commit yourself for any specific time, put in your message
that info, & find a public place (or your home if you prefer, but a
public place, like a wifi cafe, or a school, is often more convenient) &
just say "we're all gonna meet here - anyone who is interested."

This is my suggestion based on my understanding & internalization of
Evan Prodromou's BAD shotgun rules:
http://bad.debian.net/shotgun_rules.txt
[Props, Evan. ;)  ]

On Wed, 04 Mar 2009 22:56:59 -0500, "Mark Thuemmel"
<ldaphelp at thuemmel.com> said:
> Hi John,
> 
> I don't think I have much pull, but here is a go at it.....

It is not _us_ who has pull, merely our ideas & our efforts.  ;)
 

> 
> John is in a LUG in CA that meets the first Saturday of each month.  I
> found them interesting in that they try to use Ekiga to VOIP the
> meeting.  I have joined in the last two months.  I was able to meet a
> couple of people that shared my interest in Linux and chat with them
> over my Linux box and USB headset with Ekiga.  The sound quality was
> great, at least until a bunch a people get in with open mics.  But

BTIP members - note that last sentence - I think we need to implement
some sort of "push to talk" mechanism, for this VOIP conference to work
properly.  Is that possible in Ekiga?  Or, maybe using a headset "mute"
button? - at least for when each is not actively in a conversation.



> showing up early let me participate in some good chat.
> 
> The BerkleleyTIP group was great, but I was dreaming of something a bit
> more frequent than once a month.  I didn't think I could commit to the
> first Saturday of each month, especially with Spring around the corner.
> So I started www.virtuallug.com with the idea of Ekiga meet-ups on
> Thursday nights at 9:00.
> 
> So, please consider joining the BerkleyTIP this Saturday and/or
> www.virtuallug.com this Thursday for some extra Linux stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> john_re wrote:
> > Hi Mark, MDLUGgers :)
> > 
> > Mark - (I've got the correct Mark, right?) Why don't you organize a
> > local simultaneous meeting this Saturday? Then a group of yall can join
> > in.  :)
> > 
> > Hey - ain't those /. folks not too far from you?  Any chance you got an
> > inside track to getting this meeting announced there?  ;)
> > 
> > ====
> > Ekiga(Gnome meeting), Asterisk, Xen, Virtualbox, Debian 15 Years, Free
> > and Open Future, Amarok, ZFS, FreeBSD, Python, OLPC
> > 
> > 
> > =====  SCHEDULE
> > Schedule: All times Pacific Std Time = GMT -8H 
> >              ex: 10A PST = 1P Eastern ST
> > 10 A    Begin:  Set up.  Get on IRC & VOIP
> > 11 A    Ekiga3 talk LIVE
> >         INSTALLFEST begin
> > 12 N    Asterisk, OLPC;
> >         PROGRAMMING PARTY: VOIP Conference client & server
> >  1 P    Xen, Virtualbox; GNOME
> >  2 P    KDE &#8211; GUI; Macintosh


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Thu Mar  5 15:04:16 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 15:04:16 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] IT Legal case,
	and excellant photo of 1970's hard disk technology
Message-ID: <49B03040.3080004@gmail.com>

<http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/03/court-self-incrimination-privilege-stops-with-passwords.ars>


From tesral at wowway.com  Thu Mar  5 15:25:46 2009
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 15:25:46 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] IT Legal case,
 and excellant photo of 1970's hard disk technology
In-Reply-To: <49B03040.3080004@gmail.com>
References: <49B03040.3080004@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49B0354A.6040604@wowway.com>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> <http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/03/court-self-incrimination-privilege-stops-with-passwords.ars>
>   
Back in 97 I bought a pair of external SCSI drive boxes that had Fujitsu
1 gig drives in them,  5.25" full bay jobs.  Some time later one
failed.  I cracked it open and that is what it looked like.  The thing
had 12 platters.  The other one still works.


-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From radkins at impelind.com  Thu Mar  5 15:25:37 2009
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 15:25:37 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] IT Legal case,
	and excellant photo of 1970's hard disk technology
In-Reply-To: <49B03040.3080004@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090305205102.872AAC0D8@impelind.com>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Kulkis
> Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 3:04 PM
> To: mdlug at mdlug.org
> Subject: [mdlug] IT Legal case,and excellant photo of 1970's 
> hard disk technology
> 
> <http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/03/court-self-in
> crimination-privilege-stops-with-passwords.ars>
> _______________________________________________

	I wouldn't call this an "IT Case" so much as a criminal case
involving child subject pornography. Yes, it could have ramifications for
IT, yet in this particular case, the information is known to exist on the
laptop, as it was seen by the authorities before it became inaccessible.

	I am of the opinion, as it appears the judges involved in this
latest decision also happen to be, that if nothing was ever seen, then it
would be a 5th Amendment issue.

	-Rob



From set at pobox.com  Fri Mar  6 00:47:42 2009
From: set at pobox.com (Paul)
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 00:47:42 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] IT Legal case,
	and excellant photo of 1970's hard disk	technology
In-Reply-To: <49B0354A.6040604@wowway.com>
References: <49B03040.3080004@gmail.com> <49B0354A.6040604@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <20090306054742.GE6073@squish.home.loc>

Garry Stahl <tesral at wowway.com>, on Thu Mar 05, 2009 [03:25:46 PM] said:
> Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> > <http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/03/court-self-incrimination-privilege-stops-with-passwords.ars>
> >   
> Back in 97 I bought a pair of external SCSI drive boxes that had Fujitsu
> 1 gig drives in them,  5.25" full bay jobs.  Some time later one
> failed.  I cracked it open and that is what it looked like.  The thing
> had 12 platters.  The other one still works.
> 

	Hi;

	Actually; that looks like a drive with a removable disc pack.
You can see the heads have been retracted and the little rollers
compressed the opposing heads to draw away from the platters. The
ones I have seen like this were typically about the size of a washing
machine and the discs were 14" platters. Commonly found in dinosaur
pens.

Paul
set at pobox.com


From set at pobox.com  Fri Mar  6 00:57:03 2009
From: set at pobox.com (Paul)
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 00:57:03 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] IT Legal case,
	and excellant photo of 1970's hard disk	technology
In-Reply-To: <20090306054742.GE6073@squish.home.loc>
References: <49B03040.3080004@gmail.com> <49B0354A.6040604@wowway.com>
	<20090306054742.GE6073@squish.home.loc>
Message-ID: <20090306055703.GF6073@squish.home.loc>

Paul <set at pobox.com>, on Fri Mar 06, 2009 [12:47:42 AM] said:
> > Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> > > <http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/03/court-self-incrimination-privilege-stops-with-passwords.ars>
> > >   
> 	Hi;
> 
> 	Actually; that looks like a drive with a removable disc pack.
> You can see the heads have been retracted and the little rollers
> compressed the opposing heads to draw away from the platters. The
> ones I have seen like this were typically about the size of a washing
> machine and the discs were 14" platters. Commonly found in dinosaur
> pens.
> 

	Looking again, those rollers may be some sort of assembly
tool. Hard to tell. The thickness of the discs also look to be
way to thick proportionally for 14" platters. The discs are definitely
fairly old, as they look aluminum and have a ferric oxide coating.

Paul
set at pobox.com


From driveray at ameritech.net  Fri Mar  6 01:02:21 2009
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 01:02:21 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] President's mail bag: O'reilly news
Message-ID: <49B0BC6D.9020301@ameritech.net>

O'Reilly News for User Group Members
March 5, 2009

New Releases: Books, Short Cuts, and Rough Cuts

Get 35% off from O'Reilly, No Starch, Paraglyph, PC Publishing,
Pragmatic Bookshelf, Rocky Nook, SitePoint, or YoungJin books you
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Free ground shipping on orders of $29.95 or more. See details.

Did you know you can request a free book or PDF to review for your
group? Ask your group leader for more information.

For book review writing tips and suggestions, go to:
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New Releases: Books, Short Cuts, and Rough Cuts:

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    * Apprenticeship Patterns
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Upcoming Events
For more events, please see: events.oreilly.com


Lesa Snider King at Geek Girl Camp
Mar 7, 2009
Cape Cod Community College
Hyannis, MA
Author Lesa Snider King (Photoshop CS4: The Missing Manual) presents her
digital photography and Photoshop Elements workshop "How to Shoot & Edit
Like a Pro". She's also teaching "Graphic Secrets for Presenters" which
focuses on how to give better presentations by telling your story
through pictures, and how to use Photoshop or Elements to turn the
imagery you have into the imagery you need.

Joshua-Michele Ross Featured on "Press:Here"
Mar 8, 2009
Joshua-Michele Ross will be featured on "Press:Here," joined by John
Schwarz from USA Today and Sarah Lacey from Business Week and Yahoo. The
topic will be on Twitter--exploring questions such as what is the value
of Twitter to you personally, professionally, and to your brand.

Emerging Technology Conference (ETech)
Mar 9-11, 2009
Fairmont San Jose
San Jose, CA
Joshua-Michele RossThe O'Reilly Emerging Technology Conference (ETech)
centers on future technologies that truly matter. From robotics, health
care, and space travel to gaming, finance, and art, ETech explores
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those that have been on the horizon too long.

Dean Wampler at SD West
Mar 10-12, 2009
Santa Clara Convention Center
Santa Clara, CA
Author Dean Wampler (co-author of Programming Scala) is teaching a
tutorial on "The Seductions of Scala" and a class on "Better Ruby
through Functional Programming" at SD West 2009. The tutorial is March
10th and the class is March 12th.

Nancy Duarte Presenting at the Forum for Women Entrepreneurs & Executives
Mar 11, 2009
Menlo Park, CA
Nancy Duarte Nancy Duarte (slide:ology) will be presenting at the Forum
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QCon London 2009
Mar 11-13, 2009
The Queen Elizabeth II Conference Centre
London, UK
The third annual London enterprise software development conference
designed for team leads, architects and project management is back!
There is no other event in the UK with similar opportunities for
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Lesa Snider King at Geek Girl Camp
Mar 12, 2009
Lombardo's
Randolph, MA
Author Lesa Snider King (Photoshop CS4: The Missing Manual) presents her
digital photography and Photoshop Elements workshop "How to Shoot & Edit
Like a Pro". She's also teaching "Graphic Secrets for Presenters" which
focuses on how to give better presentations by telling your story
through pictures, and how to use Photoshop or Elements to turn the
imagery you have into the imagery you need.

Ken Lunde at Worldware Conference
Mar 17-19, 2009
Hilton Santa Clara
Santa Clara, CA
Author Ken Lunde (CJKV Information Processing) presents "GB 18030 ???
Regional Challenges in Internationalizing Software."

Wendy Chisholm and Matt May at SXSW
Mar 17, 2009
Room Day Stage, Austin Convention Center
Austin, TX
Authors Wendy Chisholm and Matt May read from and discuss Universal
Design for Web Applications.

Nancy Duarte Speaks at presentation//reboot
Mar 17-19, 2009
Duarte Design, 161 E. Evelyn Ave.
Mountain View, CA
Nancy Duarte (slide:ology) and Garr Reynolds host a six-hour seminar on
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Mar 18-20, 2009
The Venetian
Las Vegas, NV, USA
Author Bill Scott (Designing Web Interfaces: Principles and Patterns for
Rich Interaction) will be presenting "Interactive Prototyping with DHTML."

Nancy Duarte Honored at Silicon Valley's 2009 Women of Influence Awards
Mar 18, 2009
The Fairmont Hotel
San Jose, CA
Silicon Valley/San Jose Business Journal and El Camino Hospital will
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Stephen Johnson Gives a Class on Hands-on Digital Black and White Printing
Mar 19-22, 2009
Stephen Johnson Studios & Gallery
Pacifica, CA
Join Stephen Johnson (Stephen Johnson on Digital Photography) in his
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Dux Raymond Sy presents "7 Ways to Leverage SharePoint for Project
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Mar 23, 2009
Sheraton Inner Harbor
Baltimore, MD, USA
SharePoint for PM Dux Raymond Sy (SharePoint for Project Management)
will present "7 Ways to Leverage SharePoint for Project Management
Success" at the SharePoint Conference.ORG. Acquire the practical
knowledge of how SharePoint can address common project management
challenges such as Inefficient communication among stakeholders, poor
document management practices, and undefined project collaboration
standards that can compromise project success.

Lesa Snider King at Photoshop World Boston
Mar 25, 2009
Hynes Convention Center
Boston, MA
Lesa Snider King (Photoshop CS4: The Missing Manual) presents "Graphic
Secrets: Combining Photos & Vectors." Learn how to easily combine
illustrations with photography in this super creative session. Glean the
secret to importing vectors into your document so you can experiment
with them as backgrounds, artful embellishments, ornamental photo
frames, and more -- all without losing an ounce of quality!

Dux Raymond Sy presents: "Empowering Your Organization with SharePoint:
An Executive Seminar"
Mar 30, 2009
Learning Tree Alexandria Education Center
Alexandria, VA
Over the course of one day, SharePoint expert Dux Raymond Sy (SharePoint
for Project Management) will detail the benefits SharePoint can deliver
to your organization through a combination of lecture, presentations and
demonstrations. This comprehensive, non-technical overview is designed
to help you assess how SharePoint Technologies can have a positive
effect on your company???s productivity and competitiveness.

"Using Drupal" Authors Present Lullabot Drupal Workshops
Mar 30-Apr 3, 2009
Biltmore Hotel
Providence, RI
Authors James Walker, Jeff Robbins, Angie Byron, and Nate Haug (Using
Drupal) will be leading a week of Drupal workshops in Providence, RI.

Conference News


Emerging Technology Conference Last Chance--Emerging Technology
Conference 2009
March 9-12, 2009 in San Jose, CA

Use code "et09usrg" when you register, and receive an additional 30% off
the registration price.

O'Reilly Found, The Search Acquisition and Architecture Conference
O'Reilly Found, The Search Acquisition and Architecture Conference
June 9-11, 2009 in Burlingame, CA

Use code "fo09usrg" when you register, and receive 15% off the
registration price. Early registration ends on April 21.

Velocity 2009 Velocity 2009
June 22-24, 2009 in San Jose, CA

Use code "vel09usrg" when you register, and receive 15% off the
registration price. Early registration ends on May 3.

RailsConf 2009 RailsConf 2009
May 4-7, 2009 in Las Vegas, NV
Co-presented by O'Reilly Media and Ruby Central


Use code "rc09usrg" when you register, and receive 10% off the
registration price. Early registration ends on March 16.

Where 2.0 Conference Where 2.0 2009
May 19-21, 2009 in San Jose, CA

Use code "whr09usrg" when you register, and receive 15% off the
registration price. Early registration ends on March 31.

MySQL Conference & Expo MySQL Conference & Expo
April 20-23, 2009 in Santa Clara, CA
Co-presented by O'Reilly Media and MySQL

Use code "mys09usrg" when you register, and receive 15% off the
registration price. Early Registration Ends February 16.

Web 2.0 Expo San Francisco Web 2.0 Expo San Francisco
March 31-April 3, 2009 in San Francisco, CA
Co-presented by O'Reilly Media and TechWeb

Use code "websf09ugp" when you register, and receive 15% off the
registration price. Or use code "websf09ug" and recieve $100 off or a
free expo hall pass.

OSCON 2009 OSCON 2009
July 20-24, 2009 in San Jose, CA

If you have ideas for speakers and topics please send them to:
oscon-idea at oreilly.com

Ignite Logo Ignite
If you had five minutes on stage what would you say? What if you only
got 20 slides and they rotated automatically after 15 seconds? Around
the world geeks have been putting together Ignite nights to show their
answers.
Create your own Ignite in your area.

Upcoming Ignite events:

    * Ignite Reno 1, March 7, 148 West St. Reno, NV
    * Ignite Denver 2, March 11, Forest Room 5 , Denver, CO
    * Announcing Ignite Spatial 2, March 11, 52 King St Sydney New South
Wales, Australia
    * Ignite Boise, March 19, Egyptian Theater, 700 W. Main Street,
Boise, ID
    * Ignite Salt Lake 2, March 26, 677 South 200 West, Orlando, FL

For more events, go to http://ignite.oreilly.com/

O'Reilly School of Technology

OST O'Reilly School of Technology Courses: UG Members Receive a 30% Discount
O'Reilly School of Technology has opened its virtual doors with
educational offerings and certification for IT students looking to
further their careers or to launch one. As an O'Reilly User Group
member, you save on all the courses in the following University of
Illinois Certificate Series:

    * Java Programming
    * PHP/SQL Programming
    * Linux/Unix System Administration
    * Web Programming
    * Open Source Programming
    * .NET Programming
    * Client-Side Web Programming featuring AJAX

In today's economy, it's crucial to stay competitive in Information
Technology. With the O'Reilly School of Technology, you can do just
that--at your own pace, with 1-to-1 instructor support, real tools, and
free books.

New Java Programming Course Java Programming 1: Introduction to Java and
the Eclipse Development Environment! We are especially excited about
this course, because it is the first course to utilize Ellipse, our
brand-new Learning Sandbox built on the Eclipse open-source IDE. This is
the first course in our upcoming Java Programming Certificate Series.
The Java Programming 2 and 3 courses will be released very soon as they
are in their final editing phases.

To redeem, use Promotion Code "ORALL1" good for a 30% discount, in Step
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News from O'Reilly & Beyond

UG News

Listen to the O'Reilly Week in Review
Get some O'Reilly on your iPod! Every week, we take the wisdom of
O'Reilly, and squeeze it down into a bite-sized podcast you can listen
to on the go. The O'Reilly Week in Review features excerpts from
interviews, tips from authors, roundtable discussions from the editors,
and a quiz that can score you a free O'Reilly book. Subscribe via iTunes
or search for "week in review" on the O'Reilly web site to listen from
your browser.

Subversion Can Subversion help teams work better? Tell us and you could
win one of 10 great prize packages!
Are you on a team that works with shared documents? If so, you know what
a headache version control can be. The good news is that there is a
remedy: Subversion, a simple yet powerful open-source document
management tool that streamlines the versioning process. O'Reilly,
Beanstalk, Versions, and CollabNet--four companies who make working with
Subversion even easier--want to hear your best stories about how
Subversion has or could help your team. Tell us your story by March 6,
2009 and enter to win one of 10 Prize Packages.

State of the Computer Book Market 2008
As described in Computer Book Sales as a Technology Trend Indicator, and
our other posts on the State of the Computer Book Market we have an
updated series of posts that show the whole market's final 2008 numbers.

    * Part 2: The Technologies
    * Part 3: The Publishers
    * Part 4:The Languages
    * Part 5: eBooks and Summary

Why Kindle Should Be An Open Book
In O'Reilly Insights on Forbes.com, Tim O'Reilly boldly predicts that
"unless Amazon embraces open ebook standards like epub, which allow
readers to read books on a variety of devices, the Kindle will be gone
within two or three years." In the new column, O'Reilly explains why
he's thrown his support behind "epub and other open ebook standards,
providing our books as "ebook bundles" that give the reader the choice
of pdf (still the only viable choice for many highly formatted books
like our Head First series of "brain friendly" tutorials that even HTML
can't handle), epub, and mobi, an HTML-based predecessor to the Kindle
format that lacks digital rights management but that can be imported
into the Kindle."

Deke McClelland's Martini Hour Visualization Contest Details
The basic idea is simple; create a graphic that can be used to promote
Martini Hour that features some Deke, some Colleen, and some Martini or
other refreshing beverage. You can use the raw materials we have posted
in the dekeOnline Flickr group. Or you can use anything you like.
(Remember, Deke likes costumes and weapons.)
Twitter

Twitter Drives Traffic, Sales: A Case Study
Back in December, Dell reported that offers from its Dell Outlet Twitter
account had led to more than $1 million in revenue. A small percentage
for a company that books $16B in revenue annually--but a nice number
nonetheless, particularly in a dreary economy. Question is: are they the
only ones?

Call For Makers: Maker Faire Bay Area 2009
We are now accepting entries for the Maker Faire Bay Area, May 30 and 31
at the San Mateo County Expo Center. This year's focus is Re-Make
America, inspired by President Obama's call for all of us to participate
in remaking America. We're looking to showcase "the risk-takers, the
doers, the makers of things."

Sneak Peek at iWork '09 & Share Your Tips Contest
Currently available as a Rough Cut, the new book will teach you
everything you need to know about Apple's incredible productivity
programs, including the Pages word-processor, the Numbers spreadsheet,
and the Keynote presentation program that Al Gore and Steve Jobs made
famous. Read an excerpt from Josh Clark's work in progress, (adapted for
the web). Then, take a minute to share an iWork '09 tip and you could
win free access to iWork '09: The Missing Manual: Rough Cuts Version.

What You'll Find in "Ruby Best Practices"
When Ruby Best Practices first entered roughcuts, Gregory Brown passed
on a couple copies to some reviewers to see what they thought, and Peter
Cooper summed things up pretty accurately.
And here's a sample chapter "Mastering the Dynamic Toolkit" in PDF.

Ignite Launches Weekly Video Series Highlighting the Best of GeekCulture
Ignite captures the best of geek culture in a series of five-minute
speed presentations on topics ranging from "The Best Way to Buy a Car"
to "Hacking Chocolate" to "Transhuman Technology Trends." Imagine that
you're on stage in front of an audience of hundreds of people, doing a
five-minute presentation using a slide deck that auto-forwards every 15
seconds, whether you're ready or not. What would you do? What would you
say? Could you stand the pressure? Every week, find out how some of the
smartest minds on the planet dealt with this situation as your host,
Brady Forrest, highlights a different talk from Ignites around the world.
Safari

Safari Books Online Optimizes for Top Mobile Devices
Safari Books Online Ubiquitous for Users On-the-Go Safari Books Online
is now fully optimized to support the top mobile devices in the United
States. The new website, m.safaribooksonline.com, optimizes Safari Books
Online's content and reading experience for the majority of mobile
phones (such as Nokia, BlackBerry, iPhone, and Windows Mobile), making
it possible for users to read while on-the-go.

ETech Preview: Creating Biological Legos
If you've gotten tired of hacking firewalls or cloud computing, maybe
it's time to try your hand with DNA. That's what Reshma Shetty is doing
with her Doctorate in Biological Engineering from MIT. Apart from her
crowning achievement of getting bacteria to smell like mint and bananas,
she's also active in the developing field of synthetic biology and has
recently helped found a company called Gingko BioWorks which is
developing enabling technologies to allow for rapid prototyping of
biological systems.

ETech Preview: Inside Factory China, An Interview with Andrew Huang
China has become the production workhorse of the consumer electronics
industry. Almost anything you pick up at a Best Buy first breathed life
across the Pacific Ocean. But what is it like to shepherd a product
through the design and production process? Andrew "bunnie" Huang has
done just that with the Chumby, a new internet appliance.
Until next time?
Marsee Henon
Spreading the knowledge of innovators.O'Reilly.com
You are receiving this email because you are a User Group contact with
O'Reilly Media. If you would like to stop receiving these newsletters or
announcements from O'Reilly, send an email to marsee at oreilly.com

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From driveray at ameritech.net  Fri Mar  6 01:09:00 2009
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 01:09:00 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] O'reilly new, with links
Message-ID: <49B0BDFC.9@ameritech.net>

O'Reilly News for User Group Members
March 5, 2009

New Releases: Books, Short Cuts, and Rough Cuts

Get 35% off from O'Reilly, No Starch, Paraglyph, PC Publishing,
Pragmatic Bookshelf, Rocky Nook, SitePoint, or YoungJin books you
purchase directly from O'Reilly.* Just use code "DSUG"* when ordering
online <http://www.oreilly.com/store/> or by phone 800-998-9938.

*Free ground shipping* on orders of $29.95 or more. See details
<http://www.oreilly.com/news/freeshipping_0703.html>.

Did you know you can request a free book or PDF to review for your
group? Ask your group leader for more information.

For book review writing tips and suggestions, go to:
http://ug.oreilly.com/bookreviews.html
<http://ug.oreilly.com/bookreviews.html>

New Releases: Books, Short Cuts, and Rough Cuts:

    * 97 Things Every Software Architect Should Know
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596522698>
    * Adobe Illustrator CS4 One-on-One
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596515928>
    * Agile Web Development with Rails, Third Edition
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781934356166> (/Pragmatic
      Bookshelf/)
    * Apprenticeship Patterns
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596518387>
    * Architectural Photography
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781933952437> (/Rocky Nook/)
    * Beautiful Teams <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596518028>
    * Build a Better Photograph
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781933952185> (/Rocky Nook/)
    * Cisco Routers for the Desperate, Second Edition
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781593271930> (/No Starch/)
    * Cocoa Programming <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781934356302>
      (/Pragmatic Bookshelf/)
    * Computer Orchestration Tips and Tricks
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781906005054> (/PC Publishing/)
    * Data Warehousing with SAP BW7 BI in SAP Netweaver 2004s
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781933952406> (/Rocky Nook/)
    * Growing Software <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781593271831>
      (/No Starch/)
    * iMovie '09 and iDVD: The Missing Manual
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596801410>
    * iWork '09: The Missing Manual: Rough Cuts Version
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596801854>
    * Java Web Services: Up and Running
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596521127>
    * Make: Technology on Your Time Volume 17
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596155605>
    * Manage Your Project Portfolio
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781934356296> (/Pragmatic
      Bookshelf/)
    * Masterminds of Programming
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596515171>
    * Network Know-How <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781593271916>
      (/No Starch/)
    * Palm webOS: Rough Cuts Version
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596801816>
    * Photoshop CS4 Photographer's Handbook
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781933952420> (/Rocky Nook/)
    * Practical Digital Photomicrography (Hard Cover)
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781933952079> (/Rocky Nook/)
    * Programming Entity Framework
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596520281>
    * Programming F#: Rough Cuts Version
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596801359>
    * Programming Ruby 1.9
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781934356081> (/Pragmatic
      Bookshelf/)
    * Programming Scala <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781934356319>
      (/Pragmatic Bookshelf/)
    * Programming Scala: Rough Cuts Version
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596157746>
    * Programming the Semantic Web: Rough Cuts Version
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596802066>
    * Scanning Negatives and Slides, Second Edition
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781933952307> (/Rocky Nook/)
    * Security Monitoring <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596518165>
    * Sexy Web Design <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780980455236>
      (/SitePoint/)
    * Take Control of Running Windows on a Mac, Third Edition
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781933671536> (/TidBITS/)
    * The Book of Inkscape
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781593271817> (/No Starch/)
    * The Manga Guide to Electricity
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781593271978> (/No Starch/)
    * The Nikon Creative Lighting System
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9781933952413> (/Rocky Nook/)
    * The Nikon D90 Companion
      <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596159870>



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makezine.com <http://makezine.com/magazine/>The annual subscription
price for four issues is $34.95. When you subscribe with this link,
you'll get a free issue--one plus four more for $34.95. So subscribe for
yourself or friends with this great offer for UG Members: five volumes
for the cost of four.

Subscribe at: http://www.makezine.com/go/ugsub
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Upcoming Events

For more events, please see: events.oreilly.com
<http://events.oreilly.com/>


* Lesa Snider King at Geek Girl Camp <http://geekgirlcamp.com/> *
* Mar 7, 2009 *
Cape Cod Community College
Hyannis, MA
Author Lesa Snider King (*Photoshop CS4: The Missing Manual*
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596522964>) presents her digital
photography and Photoshop Elements workshop "How to Shoot & Edit Like a
Pro". She's also teaching "Graphic Secrets for Presenters" which focuses
on how to give better presentations by telling your story through
pictures, and how to use Photoshop or Elements to turn the imagery you
have into the imagery you need.

* Joshua-Michele Ross Featured on "Press:Here"
<http://www.pressheretv.com> *
* Mar 8, 2009 *
Joshua-Michele Ross <http://radar.oreilly.com/josh/> will be featured on
"Press:Here," joined by John Schwarz from USA Today and Sarah Lacey from
Business Week and Yahoo. The topic will be on Twitter--exploring
questions such as what is the value of Twitter to you personally,
professionally, and to your brand.

* Emerging Technology Conference (ETech)
<http://conferences.oreilly.com/etech> *
* Mar 9-11, 2009 *
Fairmont San Jose
San Jose, CA
Joshua-Michele Ross <http://radar.oreilly.com/josh/> The O'Reilly
Emerging Technology Conference (ETech) centers on future technologies
that truly matter. From robotics, health care, and space travel to
gaming, finance, and art, ETech explores promising technologies new to
the innovation horizon, and investigates those that have been on the
horizon too long.

* Dean Wampler at SD West
<https://www.cmpevents.com/SDw9/a.asp?option=G&V=3&id=447368> *
* Mar 10-12, 2009 *
Santa Clara Convention Center
Santa Clara, CA
Author Dean Wampler (co-author of *Programming Scala*
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596157746/index.html>) is teaching a
tutorial on "The Seductions of Scala" and a class on "Better Ruby
through Functional Programming" at SD West 2009. The tutorial is March
10th and the class is March 12th.

* Nancy Duarte Presenting at the Forum for Women Entrepreneurs &
Executives
<http://www.fwe.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=Calendar.eventDetail&eventID=144>
*
* Mar 11, 2009 *
Menlo Park, CA
Nancy Duarte <http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596522346/index.html> Nancy
Duarte (*slide:ology*
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596522346/index.html>) will be
presenting at the Forum for Women Entrepreneurs & Executives (FWE&E).
You'll gain insights into story structures and the power that a well
developed and delivered presentation can have.

* QCon London 2009 <http://qconlondon.com/> *
* Mar 11-13, 2009 *
The Queen Elizabeth II Conference Centre
London, UK
The third annual London enterprise software development conference
designed for team leads, architects and project management is back!
There is no other event in the UK with similar opportunities for
learning, networking, and tracking innovation occurring in the Java,
.NET, Ruby, SOA, Agile, and architecture communities. Madness and fun!

* Lesa Snider King at Geek Girl Camp <http://www.geekgirlcamp.com> *
* Mar 12, 2009 *
Lombardo's
Randolph, MA
Author Lesa Snider King (*Photoshop CS4: The Missing Manual*
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596522964>) presents her digital
photography and Photoshop Elements workshop "How to Shoot & Edit Like a
Pro". She's also teaching "Graphic Secrets for Presenters" which focuses
on how to give better presentations by telling your story through
pictures, and how to use Photoshop or Elements to turn the imagery you
have into the imagery you need.

* Ken Lunde at Worldware Conference <http://www.worldwareconference.com/> *
* Mar 17-19, 2009 *
Hilton Santa Clara
Santa Clara, CA
Author Ken Lunde (*CJKV Information Processing*
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596514471/index.html>) presents "GB
18030 ??? Regional Challenges in Internationalizing Software."

* Wendy Chisholm and Matt May at SXSW
<http://sxsw.com/interactive/talks/schedule?action=show&id=IAP0901357> *
* Mar 17, 2009 *
Room Day Stage, Austin Convention Center
Austin, TX
Authors Wendy Chisholm and Matt May read from and discuss *Universal
Design for Web Applications*
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596518738/index.html>.

* Nancy Duarte Speaks at presentation//reboot
<http://www.presentationreboot.com/> *
* Mar 17-19, 2009 *
Duarte Design, 161 E. Evelyn Ave.
Mountain View, CA
Nancy Duarte (*slide:ology*) and Garr Reynolds host a six-hour seminar
on presentations. This seminar will transform you into a creative
thinker and change the way you prepare, design, and deliver your next
presentation. Choose from three different days, and register now--space
is limited.

* Bill Scott at Mix09 <http://2009.visitmix.com/> *
* Mar 18-20, 2009 *
The Venetian
Las Vegas, NV, USA
Author Bill Scott (*Designing Web Interfaces: Principles and Patterns
for Rich Interaction
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596516253/index.html>*) will be
presenting "Interactive Prototyping with DHTML."

* Nancy Duarte Honored at Silicon Valley's 2009 Women of Influence
Awards <http://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/event/5433> *
* Mar 18, 2009 *
The Fairmont Hotel
San Jose, CA
Silicon Valley/San Jose Business Journal and El Camino Hospital will
recognize 100 outstanding women who exercise power and influence within
business, government, or nonprofits in Silicon Valley, and serve as role
models for future generations of leaders. Among the honorees is Nancy
Duarte, author of *slide:ology
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596522346/index.html>*. Registration is
mandatory.

* Stephen Johnson Gives a Class on Hands-on Digital Black and White
Printing <http://www.sjphoto.com/print_wkspHO_frameset.html> *
* Mar 19-22, 2009 *
Stephen Johnson Studios & Gallery
Pacifica, CA
Join Stephen Johnson (*Stephen Johnson on Digital Photography*
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/stephenjohnson>) in his studio for four
days of hands-on printing instruction.

* Dux Raymond Sy presents "7 Ways to Leverage SharePoint for Project
Management Success" <http://www.sharepointconference.org> *
* Mar 23, 2009 *
Sheraton Inner Harbor
Baltimore, MD, USA
SharePoint for PM <http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596520144/index.html>
Dux Raymond Sy (*SharePoint for Project Management
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596520144/index.html>*) will present "7
Ways to Leverage SharePoint for Project Management Success" at the
SharePoint Conference.ORG. Acquire the practical knowledge of how
SharePoint can address common project management challenges such as
Inefficient communication among stakeholders, poor document management
practices, and undefined project collaboration standards that can
compromise project success.

* Lesa Snider King at Photoshop World Boston
<http://www.photoshopworld.com/bonus.html> *
* Mar 25, 2009 *
Hynes Convention Center
Boston, MA
Lesa Snider King (*Photoshop CS4: The Missing Manual*
<http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596522964>) presents "Graphic
Secrets: Combining Photos & Vectors." Learn how to easily combine
illustrations with photography in this super creative session. Glean the
secret to importing vectors into your document so you can experiment
with them as backgrounds, artful embellishments, ornamental photo
frames, and more -- all without losing an ounce of quality!

* Dux Raymond Sy presents: "Empowering Your Organization with
SharePoint: An Executive Seminar" <http://go.meetdux.com/4czq> *
* Mar 30, 2009 *
Learning Tree Alexandria Education Center
Alexandria, VA
Over the course of one day, SharePoint expert Dux Raymond Sy
(*SharePoint for Project Management*
<http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596520144/index.html>) will detail the
benefits SharePoint can deliver to your organization through a
combination of lecture, presentations and demonstrations. This
comprehensive, non-technical overview is designed to help you assess how
SharePoint Technologies can have a positive effect on your company???s
productivity and competitiveness.

* "Using Drupal" Authors Present Lullabot Drupal Workshops
<http://www.lullabot.com/training> *
* Mar 30-Apr 3, 2009 *
Biltmore Hotel
Providence, RI
Authors James Walker, Jeff Robbins, Angie Byron, and Nate Haug (*Using
Drupal* <http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596515805/index.html>) will be
leading a week of Drupal workshops in Providence, RI.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Conference News



Emerging Technology Conference <http://conferences.oreilly.com/etech/>
Last Chance--Emerging Technology Conference 2009
<http://en.oreilly.com/et2009/public/register?CMP=ILC-conf_etech09&ATT=UG>
March 9-12, 2009 in San Jose, CA

Use code "et09usrg" when you register, and receive an additional 30% off
the registration price.

O'Reilly Found, The Search Acquisition and Architecture Conference
<http://conferences.oreilly.com/found> O'Reilly Found, The Search
Acquisition and Architecture Conference
<https://en.oreilly.com/rails2009/public/register>
June 9-11, 2009 in Burlingame, CA

Use code "fo09usrg" when you register, and receive 15% off the
registration price. Early registration ends on April 21.

Velocity 2009 <http://conferences.oreilly.com/velocity> Velocity 2009
<https://en.oreilly.com/velocity2009/public/register>
June 22-24, 2009 in San Jose, CA

Use code "vel09usrg" when you register, and receive 15% off the
registration price. Early registration ends on May 3.

RailsConf 2009 <http://www.railsconf.com> RailsConf 2009
<https://en.oreilly.com/rails2009/public/register>
May 4-7, 2009 in Las Vegas, NV
Co-presented by O'Reilly Media and Ruby Central


Use code "rc09usrg" when you register, and receive 10% off the
registration price. Early registration ends on March 16.

Where 2.0 Conference <http://conferences.oreilly.com/where> Where 2.0
2009
<https://en.oreilly.com/where2009/public/register?CMP=EMC-conf_where09_in&att=UG1>
May 19-21, 2009 in San Jose, CA

Use code "whr09usrg" when you register, and receive 15% off the
registration price. Early registration ends on March 31.

MySQL Conference & Expo <http://www.mysqlconf.com/> MySQL Conference &
Expo
<https://en.oreilly.com/mysql2009/public/register/?ATT=EM6&CMP=EMC-conf_my09_UG1>
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From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Fri Mar  6 11:59:26 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 11:59:26 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] IT Legal case,
 and excellant photo of 1970's hard disk technology
In-Reply-To: <20090306054742.GE6073@squish.home.loc>
References: <49B03040.3080004@gmail.com> <49B0354A.6040604@wowway.com>
	<20090306054742.GE6073@squish.home.loc>
Message-ID: <49B1566E.2070604@gmail.com>

Paul wrote:
> Garry Stahl <tesral at wowway.com>, on Thu Mar 05, 2009 [03:25:46 PM] said:
>> Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>>> <http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/03/court-self-incrimination-privilege-stops-with-passwords.ars>
>>>   
>> Back in 97 I bought a pair of external SCSI drive boxes that had Fujitsu
>> 1 gig drives in them,  5.25" full bay jobs.  Some time later one
>> failed.  I cracked it open and that is what it looked like.  The thing
>> had 12 platters.  The other one still works.
>>
> 
> 	Hi;
> 
> 	Actually; that looks like a drive with a removable disc pack.
> You can see the heads have been retracted and the little rollers
> compressed the opposing heads to draw away from the platters. The
> ones I have seen like this were typically about the size of a washing
> machine and the discs were 14" platters. Commonly found in dinosaur
> pens.
> 

Precisely.
And it was pretty nasty when they suffered a head crash --
big lathe-like mark scraping away all of the magnetic media
(rust brown because..well, it was powdered rust).


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Sun Mar  8 16:45:20 2009
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 15:45:20 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Johnny Lee: Wii Remote hacks
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380902051316u4fdb5ffek170420c504029282@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380902051316u4fdb5ffek170420c504029282@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4145b6790903081345n6aac77eewd99b10a04e9790d6@mail.gmail.com>

I finally had a chance to play around with creating a wiiboard.  Here
are my notes for doing this under Ubuntu Intrepid Ibex 8.10:

http://groups.google.com/group/cwelug/msg/fdc31300fd432f7d

Regards,
- Robert

On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 4:16 PM, Michael Rudas <audiotech50 at gmail.com> wrote:
> This was a presentation from last year's TED conference that I missed
> prior to a posting to the SEMCO mailing list. ?Fascinating!
> <http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/johnny_lee_demos_wii_remote_hacks.html>


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Mon Mar  9 19:02:41 2009
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 19:02:41 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Parted Magic
Message-ID: <1236639761.26042.118.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

Hello Everyone,
	This probably comes as no surprise to everyone, but I was happily
surprised to see a utility included in the latest version of Parted
Magic that queries and lists all the hardware on the computer it's
running on. Since it runs completely from ram, you can use the cd drive
to burn whatever packages/drivers you may have downloaded. Copy and
paste from that utility to a web browser is so much easier than writing
everything down and using a different computer to do the downloading.

Best Regards,
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
Peter The Plumber



From peter at petertheplumber.net  Mon Mar  9 22:55:04 2009
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 22:55:04 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Parted Magic
In-Reply-To: <1236639761.26042.118.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
References: <1236639761.26042.118.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <1236653704.26042.143.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

On Mon, 2009-03-09 at 19:02 -0400, Peter Bart wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
> 	This probably comes as no surprise to everyone, but I was happily
> surprised to see a utility included in the latest version of Parted
> Magic that queries and lists all the hardware on the computer it's
> running on. Since it runs completely from ram, you can use the cd drive
> to burn whatever packages/drivers you may have downloaded. Copy and
> paste from that utility to a web browser is so much easier than writing
> everything down and using a different computer to do the downloading.

	Now, if I could just find something like that to connect to the water
meter that would tell me the brand and model of every connected faucet,
fixture and appurtenance in that house. 
<sigh>
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
Peter The Plumber



From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Mon Mar  9 23:13:00 2009
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Robert Meier)
Date: Mon,  9 Mar 2009 23:13:00 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] [Tech Support] OpenOffice-3.0.1 no dictionary
Message-ID: <20090310031300.79E8C20AAD0@starfox.local>

POEMs,

I just upgraded at work to openOffice-3.0.1 .
It seems to come up faster,
but I find that every word is reported as "not in dictorary".

No errors were reported during installation.
I first installed from rpm -i.
Noting the errant spellchecking, I then used rpm -e to remove the files
and tried again using .../setup.  (Same experience both times).

My dictionary selections
[Tools/options/Languages/Writing Aids/Available/Edit/...]
are English(US).

I have verified that
/opt/openoffice.org3/share/xtension/install/dict-en.oxt
is installed, looks correct (i.e. unzip -t reports an
apparently appropriate jar file), and is readable.

strace during startup indicates that no -dict- file is being openned.

openOffice-2.3(?) had a working dictionary and was removed with -e
before initial installation.



Anybody seen this before?
Anybody know the cause?
Anybody know the cure?
What am I missing?



TIA,
--
Bob

  "I used to think correlation implied causation.
   Then I took a class on statistics.  Now I don't.
   (Sounds like the class helped.)  Well, maybe."
    -- xkcd (http://www.xkcd.com/552/)


From z_mikowski at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 10 03:39:27 2009
From: z_mikowski at yahoo.com (Michael S. Mikowski)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 00:39:27 -0700
Subject: [mdlug] [Tech Support] OpenOffice-3.0.1 no dictionary
In-Reply-To: <20090310031300.79E8C20AAD0@starfox.local>
References: <20090310031300.79E8C20AAD0@starfox.local>
Message-ID: <200903100039.28011.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>

Hi Dr. Meier:

Seen Before: 
Yes, in OO 2.4.

Cause: 
My documents were not recognized as English (USA), but instead English 
(Zimbabwe).  I don't know how it happened, it just did.

Cure: 
I set the correct default language for documents:
Tools -> Options -> Language Settings -> Languages
Under the "Default Languages for documents", for the "Western" language I 
selected English (USA).  That language was the only option that had a little 
'ABC' icon next to the selection to signify a valid installed dictionary.

What you Are Missing:  
Possibly nothing I have written :)  All this may have changed in 3.0.1.

Good luck!

Sincerely,

Mike



On Monday 09 March 2009 20:13:00 Robert Meier wrote:
> POEMs,
>
> I just upgraded at work to openOffice-3.0.1 .
> It seems to come up faster,
> but I find that every word is reported as "not in dictorary".
>
> No errors were reported during installation.
> I first installed from rpm -i.
> Noting the errant spellchecking, I then used rpm -e to remove the files
> and tried again using .../setup.  (Same experience both times).
>
> My dictionary selections
> [Tools/options/Languages/Writing Aids/Available/Edit/...]
> are English(US).
>
> I have verified that
> /opt/openoffice.org3/share/xtension/install/dict-en.oxt
> is installed, looks correct (i.e. unzip -t reports an
> apparently appropriate jar file), and is readable.
>
> strace during startup indicates that no -dict- file is being openned.
>
> openOffice-2.3(?) had a working dictionary and was removed with -e
> before initial installation.
>
>
>
> Anybody seen this before?
> Anybody know the cause?
> Anybody know the cure?
> What am I missing?
>
>
>
> TIA,
> --
> Bob
>
>   "I used to think correlation implied causation.
>    Then I took a class on statistics.  Now I don't.
>    (Sounds like the class helped.)  Well, maybe."
>     -- xkcd (http://www.xkcd.com/552/)
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From driveray at ameritech.net  Tue Mar 10 10:53:46 2009
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 10:53:46 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] test
Message-ID: <49B67EFA.6090108@ameritech.net>

Is this thing still on?


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 10 11:21:50 2009
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 08:21:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] test
References: <49B67EFA.6090108@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <227220.9696.qm@web37907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Yes. 




________________________________
From: Raymond McLaughlin <driveray at ameritech.net>
To: "mdlug at mdlug.org" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:53:46 AM
Subject: [mdlug] test

Is this thing still on?
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      


From mbutler at judge.com  Tue Mar 10 12:16:40 2009
From: mbutler at judge.com (Margie J. Butler)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 12:16:40 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT Linux Admin. Opening in Metro Detroit- Direct Hire
Message-ID: <CBF62E34AEE1D744AB62F9E58E3BC266E54075@apollo.judge.com>

My client has a full time permanent position available for a Linux Admin with 3+ years experience. They are seeking someone with the skills listed below.  

 

Experience installing, administering, configuring and supporting Red Hat Enterprise Linux 4.6 & 5

Prior experience supporting a clustered Linux environment preferred

Assist in supporting and monitoring Oracle servers and JBoss Application Server Monitor database backups (this will not be the primary focus but any knowledge and or experience is helpful)

Perform routine test restores
Provide after hours support, as needed, for critical systems

Optimize SQL queries 

The ability to manage multiple assignments in a constantly changing environment
Create and maintain related system and process documentation?
Excellent verbal and written communications skills

 

Please contact me for salary and compensation information.

 

 

 

 

Margie Butler

Technical Recruiter 

 

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Bloomfield Hills, MI 48302 

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Phone: (248) 253-9500 Ext.1239 

Toll Free: 800-360-4474 x 1239

Fax: (248)  253-7100

www.judge.com <http://www.judge.com/> 

 

 

The Judge Group

Consulting * Staffing * Training

 Results through the Power of Experience

 

4Over 30 offices nationwide    4Over 2,500 professionals    4Over 38 years of experience                                     

 


From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Tue Mar 10 14:31:00 2009
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Robert Meier)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 14:31:00 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] [Solution] OpenOffice-3.0.1 no dictionary [Was: Re: [Tech
	Support] OpenOffice-3.0.1 no dictionary]
In-Reply-To: <20090310031300.79E8C20AAD0@starfox.local> (message from Robert
	Meier on Mon, 9 Mar 2009 23:13:00 -0400 (EDT))
References: <20090310031300.79E8C20AAD0@starfox.local>
Message-ID: <20090310183100.764DD20AAD1@starfox.local>

Michael,

Thank you for your help.

[For the record]

Problem:
> I just upgraded at work to openOffice-3.0.1 .
> It seems to come up faster,
> but I find that every word is reported as "not in dictorary".

Cause:
<UNCERTAIN>
An unidentified component of personal or system state,
not reflected in the menus nor owned by any openoffice or ooo rpm,
is unhandled during the upgrade to openOffice-3.0.1 .
</UNCERTAIN>

Workaround:
1. Remove all prior versions of openOffice.
   bash# rpm -e $(rpm -qa | grep ooo) $(rpm -qa | grep openoffice)
2. (Re)move all links to prior versions openOffice
   bash# find / -type l -print | while read l; do
           if ls -l "$l" grep /opt/openoffice; then
             rm "$l"
           fi
         done
3. (Re)move all openoffice directories
   bash# rm -rf /opt/openoffice*
4. (Re)move all personal openoffice configurations.
   bash> rm -rf ~/.openoffice*
5. Reinstall openoffice-3.0.1
   bash# mkdir -p /opt/openoffice/original
   bash# # Download openoffice-3.0.1*.tar.gz into /opt/openoffice/original
   bash# cd /opt/openoffice
   bash# tar -zxvf original/openoffice-3.0.1*.tar.gz
   bash# ./setup


Symptoms:   
> I set the correct default language for documents:
> Tools -> Options -> Language Settings -> Languages
> Under the "Default Languages for documents", for the "Western" language I 
> selected English (USA).  That language was the only option that had a little 
> 'ABC' icon next to the selection to signify a valid installed dictionary.

No effect.

> No errors were reported during installation.
> I first installed from rpm -i.
> Noting the errant spellchecking, I then used rpm -e to remove the files
> and tried again using .../setup.  (Same experience both times).
>
> My dictionary selections
> [Tools/options/Languages/Writing Aids/Available/Edit/...]
> are English(US).
>
> I have verified that
> /opt/openoffice.org3/share/xtension/install/dict-en.oxt
> is installed, looks correct (i.e. unzip -t reports an
> apparently appropriate jar file), and is readable.
>
> strace during startup indicates that no -dict- file is being openned.
>
> openOffice-2.3(?) had a working dictionary and was removed with -e
> before initial installation.


Reporting,
-- 
Bob

  "'Men have forgotten this truth,' said the fox.
   'But you must not forget it.
   You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed.'"
     -- Antoine de Saint-Exupery



From otakurider at gmail.com  Tue Mar 10 15:35:45 2009
From: otakurider at gmail.com (Gmail-otakurider)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 15:35:45 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] test
In-Reply-To: <49B67EFA.6090108@ameritech.net>
References: <49B67EFA.6090108@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <49B6C111.8020407@gmail.com>

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Is this thing still on?
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>   
yep got it


From unforgiven24 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 10 17:33:34 2009
From: unforgiven24 at gmail.com (Mike Ward)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 17:33:34 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] test
In-Reply-To: <49B6C111.8020407@gmail.com>
References: <49B67EFA.6090108@ameritech.net> <49B6C111.8020407@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5aa434200903101433t19dbb24ehc6b2d2ed72a2442a@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 3:35 PM, Gmail-otakurider <otakurider at gmail.com>wrote:

> Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> > Is this thing still on?
> > _______________________________________________
> > mdlug mailing list
> > mdlug at mdlug.org
> > http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> >
> >
> yep got it
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>

I didn't.


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 10 23:17:36 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 23:17:36 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] test
In-Reply-To: <49B67EFA.6090108@ameritech.net>
References: <49B67EFA.6090108@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <49B72D50.3080209@gmail.com>

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Is this thing still on?

Yeah, but it's got kind of a lot of static and a bit of feedback.


From MCMay at RGIS.com  Thu Mar 12 15:07:47 2009
From: MCMay at RGIS.com (May, Mat)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:07:47 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Questions about samba
In-Reply-To: <20090227190949.6aa5e297@osage.osagesoftware.com>
Message-ID: <E800CE2A661DB04E9CB6F0B7D91DF569010922F1@HQEX01.na.ad.rgis.com>

Hopefully you guys can help me out.  I have a file system on a Red Hat
Enterprise Linux system that I need to copy over to a Windows 2003
server.  I have created a samba share of the directory on the Linux
server and can access it from the Windows server, but because of some of
the file permission on the Linux side I am getting an "access denied"
error.

The permissions on the files in question are -rw------.  Does anyone
know of a switch or anything that I can do from the Windows side to give
me access to copy "root only" file?

Thanks for any help you can give.

Mathew May

System Support

Field Support Center

(248)608-8244

(248)656-6627 FAX

mcmay at rgis.com

www.rgisinv.com

 
NOTE: The information in this email may be confidential and legally
privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not
read, use or disseminate the information; please advise the sender
immediately by reply email and delete this message and any
attachments without retaining a copy. Although this email and any
attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect
that may affect any computer system into which it is received and
opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it
is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by RGIS, LLC for
any loss or damage arising in any way from its use.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Mar 12 16:00:43 2009
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:00:43 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Questions about samba
In-Reply-To: <E800CE2A661DB04E9CB6F0B7D91DF569010922F1@HQEX01.na.ad.rgis.com>
References: <20090227190949.6aa5e297@osage.osagesoftware.com>
	<E800CE2A661DB04E9CB6F0B7D91DF569010922F1@HQEX01.na.ad.rgis.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90903121300r3e54eba0nabbebe34b071efe7@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 3:07 PM, May, Mat <MCMay at rgis.com> wrote:
> Hopefully you guys can help me out. ?I have a file system on a Red Hat
> Enterprise Linux system that I need to copy over to a Windows 2003
> server. ?I have created a samba share of the directory on the Linux
> server and can access it from the Windows server, but because of some of
> the file permission on the Linux side I am getting an "access denied"
> error.
>
> The permissions on the files in question are -rw------. ?Does anyone
> know of a switch or anything that I can do from the Windows side to give
> me access to copy "root only" file?
>

Unless both systems are using a directory service like LDAP to
associate user accounts between them you have to give read permission
to others (-rw----r-) and probably set "map to guest = bad user" in
the smb.conf file.


From MCMay at RGIS.com  Thu Mar 12 16:34:31 2009
From: MCMay at RGIS.com (May, Mat)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:34:31 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Questions about samba
In-Reply-To: <E800CE2A661DB04E9CB6F0B7D91DF569010922F1@HQEX01.na.ad.rgis.com>
Message-ID: <E800CE2A661DB04E9CB6F0B7D91DF569010922F2@HQEX01.na.ad.rgis.com>

Before anyone else scratches their head over this one, or thinks to
themselves "that's a basic config," I got it all sorted out.

I added my Windows login name to the /etc/samba/smbusers file in the
"root" user line, than ran the "snmpasswd -a root" command, entered my
new password, restarted the smb service (for good measure) and was able
to copy all of my needed files to the Window server.

Mathew May

System Support

Field Support Center

(248)608-8244

(248)656-6627 FAX

mcmay at rgis.com

www.rgisinv.com

 

 


-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of May, Mat
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 3:08 PM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: [mdlug] Questions about samba

Hopefully you guys can help me out.  I have a file system on a Red Hat
Enterprise Linux system that I need to copy over to a Windows 2003
server.  I have created a samba share of the directory on the Linux
server and can access it from the Windows server, but because of some of
the file permission on the Linux side I am getting an "access denied"
error.

The permissions on the files in question are -rw------.  Does anyone
know of a switch or anything that I can do from the Windows side to give
me access to copy "root only" file?

Thanks for any help you can give.

Mathew May

System Support

Field Support Center

(248)608-8244

(248)656-6627 FAX

mcmay at rgis.com

www.rgisinv.com

 
NOTE: The information in this email may be confidential and legally
privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not
read, use or disseminate the information; please advise the sender
immediately by reply email and delete this message and any
attachments without retaining a copy. Although this email and any
attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect
that may affect any computer system into which it is received and
opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it
is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by RGIS, LLC for
any loss or damage arising in any way from its use.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From driveray at ameritech.net  Fri Mar 13 15:05:28 2009
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:05:28 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] MDLUG meeting tomorrow
Message-ID: <49BAAE78.2010208@ameritech.net>

MDLUGers:
MDLUG meeting tomorrow, same MDLUG time, same MDLUG channel:
<http://mdlug.org/meetings/meetings.html>

MDLUG has meetings, at 12:30 PM, on the second saturday of each month.

MDLUG meetings are at the Gaudior Academy 27100 Avondale, Inkster MI
48141. This is about a block east of Inkster Road, half a mile south of
Cherry Hill (gps://wgs-84/42N18.302/083W18.465).

On the business agenda will be some discussion of the MDLUG Penguicon
Party room.

If a technical topic has been selected I am unaware of it and it hasn't
been entered in the calender. So it looks like it'll be a "Linux Free
style".

Art Dries has expressed some interest in discussing filesystem security
or restoring/building a system from ground up. But he has no formal
presentation. Never the less this might serve as a starting point of
discussion.

Hope to see you all there.
Raymond McLaughlin
President MDLUG


From jjn at nuge.com  Sat Mar 14 14:39:25 2009
From: jjn at nuge.com (Jay Nugent)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 13:39:25 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] 15 years ago today
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0903141336580.29536-100000@home.nuge.com>



From: Linus Torvalds <Linus.Torvalds at helsinki.fi>
Newsgroups: 
comp.os.linux.announce,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Linux 1.0---A better UNIX than Windows NT
Followup-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Date: 14 Mar 1994 12:51:16 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki
Lines: 138
Approved: linux-announce at tc.cornell.edu (Lars Wirzenius)
Message-ID: <2m1mk4$qc9 at hydra.Helsinki.FI>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hydra.helsinki.fi
Summary: Linux 1.0 released
Keywords: Linux Kernel 1.0 Academy Awards
X-Moderator-Added-Keywords: universe, end of


Finally, here it is.  Almost on time (being just two years late is
peanuts in the OS industry), and better than ever:

 Linux kernel release 1.0

This release has no new major features compared to the pl15 kernels, but
contains lots and lots of bugfixes: all the major ones are gone, the
smaller ones are hidden better.  Hopefully there are no major new ones.

The Linux kernel can be found as source on most of the Linux ftp-sites
under the names

 linux-1.0.tar.gz  (full source)
 linux-1.0.patch.pl15.gz  (patch against linux-0.99pl15)
 linux-1.0.patch.alpha.gz (patch from linux-pre-1.0)

it should be available at least at the sites

 ftp.funet.fi:
  pub/OS/Linux/PEOPLE/Linus (now)
 sunsite.unc.ed:
  pub/Linux/Incoming  (now)
  pub/Linux/kernel  (soon)
 tsx-11.mit.edu:
  pub/linux/sources/system (soon)
 ftp.cs.helsinki.fi:
  pub/Software/Linux/Kernel (now)

This release finally moves Linux out of Beta status and is meant as a
base for distributions to build on.  It will neither change Linux'
status as FreeWare under the GPL, nor will it mean the end of
development on Linux.  In fact many new features where held back for
later releases so that 1.0 could become a well tested and hopefully
stable release.

The Linux kernel wouldn't be where it is today without the help of lots
of people: the kernel developers, the people who did user-level programs
making linux useful, and the brave and foolhardy people who risked their
harddisks and sanity to test it all out.  My thanks to you all.
(Editorial note: if you think this sounds too much like the Academy
Awards ceremony, just skip this: it's not getting any better.)

Thanks to people like Aaron Kushner, Danny ter Haar and the authors of
the AnwenderHandbuch (and others) who have helped me with hardware or
monetary donations (and to the Oxford Beer Trolls and others who took
care of the drinkware).  And thanks to Dirk, who helped me write this
announcement despite my lazyness ("hey, it's just another release, who
needs an announcement anyway?").

To make a long and boring story a bit shorter and boring, here is at
least a partial list of people who have been helping make Linux what it
is today.  Thanks to you all,

 Krishna Balasubramanian <balasub at cis.ohio-state.edu>
 Arindam Banerji <axb at cse.nd.edu>
 Peter Bauer <100136.3530 at compuserve.com>
 Fred Baumgarten <dc6iq at insu1.etec.uni-karlsruhe.de>
 Donald Becker <becker at super.org>
 Stephen R. van den Berg <berg at pool.informatik.rwth-aachen.de>
 Hennus Bergman <hennus at sky.nl.mugnet.org>
 Ross Biro <bir7 at leland.Stanford.Edu>
 Bill Bogstad <bogstad at cs.jhu.edu>
 John Boyd <boyd at cis.ohio-state.edu>
 Andries Brouwer <aeb at cwi.nl>
 Remy Card <Remy.Card at masi.ibp.fr>
 Ed Carp <ecarp at netcom.com>
 Raymond Chen <raymondc at microsoft.com>
 Alan Cox <iiitac at pyr.swan.ac.uk>
 Laurence Culhane <loz at holmes.demon.co.uk>
 Wayne Davison <davison at borland.com>
 Thomas Dunbar <tdunbar at vtaix.cc.vt.edu>
 Torsten Duwe <duwe at immd4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
 Drew Eckhardt <drew at cs.Colorado.EDU>
 Bjorn Ekwall <bj0rn at blox.se>
 Doug Evans <dje at cygnus.com>
 Rik Faith <faith at cs.unc.edu>
 Juergen Fischer <fischer at server.et-inf.fho-emden.de>
 Jeremy Fitzhardinge <jeremy at sw.oz.au>
 Ralf Flaxa <rfflaxa at immd4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
 Nigel Gamble <nigel%gamble.uucp at gate.net>
 Philip Gladstone <philipg at onsett.com>
 Bruno Haible <haible at ma2s2.mathematik.uni-karlsruhe.de>
 Andrew Haylett <ajh at gec-mrc.co.uk>
 Dirk Hohndel <hohndel at informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de>
 Nick Holloway <alfie at dcs.warwick.ac.uk>
 Ron Holt <ron at novell.com>
 Rob W. W. Hooft <hooft at EMBL-Heidelberg.DE>
 Michael K. Johnson <johnsonm at sunsite.unc.edu>
 Fred N. van Kempen <waltje at uwalt.nl.mugnet.org>
 Olaf Kirch <okir at monad.swb.de>
 Ian Kluft <ikluft at thunder.sbay.org>
 Rudolf Koenig <rfkoenig at immd4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
 Bas Laarhoven <bas at vimec.nl>
 Warner Losh <imp at boulder.parcplace.com>
 H.J. Lu <hjl at nynexst.com>
 Tuomas J. Lukka <Tuomas.Lukka at Helsinki.FI>
 Kai M"akisara <Kai.Makisara at vtt.fi>
 Pat Mackinlay <pat at it.com.au>
 John A. Martin <jmartin at csc.com>
 Bradley McLean <brad at bradpc.gaylord.com>
 Craig Metz <cmetz at tjhsst.edu>
 William (Bill) Metzenthen <billm at vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>
 Rick Miller <rick at discus.mil.wi.us>
 Corey Minyard <minyard at wf-rch.cirr.com>
 Eberhard Moenkeberg <emoenke at gwdg.de>
 Ian A. Murdock <imurdock at shell.portal.com>
 Johan Myreen <jem at vipunen.hut.fi>
 Stefan Probst <snprobst at immd4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
 Daniel Quinlan <quinlan at bucknell.edu>
 Florian La Roche <rzsfl at rz.uni-sb.de>
 Robert Sanders <gt8134b at prism.gatech.edu>
 Peter De Schrijver <stud11 at cc4.kuleuven.ac.be>
 Darren Senn <sinster at scintilla.santa-clara.ca.us>
 Chris Smith <csmith at convex.com>
 Drew Sullivan <drew at lethe.north.net>
 Tommy Thorn <Tommy.Thorn at daimi.aau.dk>
 Jon Tombs <jon at gtex02.us.es>
 Theodore Ts'o <tytso at mit.edu>
 Simmule Turner <simmy at digex.com>
 Stephen Tweedie <sct at dcs.ed.ac.uk>
 Thomas Uhl <uhl at sun1.rz.fh-heilbronn.de>
 Juergen Weigert <jnweiger at immd4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
 Matt Welsh <mdw at sunsite.unc.edu>
 Marco van Wieringen <mvw at mercury.mcs.nl.mugnet.org>
 Stephen D. Williams <sdw at lig.net>
 G\"unter Windau <gunter at mbfys.kun.nl>
 Lars Wirzenius <lars.wirzenius at helsinki.fi>
 Roger E. Wolff <wolff at dutecai.et.tudelft.nl>
 Frank Xia <qx at math.columbia.edu>
 Eric Youngdale <eric at tantalus.nrl.navy.mil>
 Orest Zborowski <orestz at microsoft.com>

A more detailed list with contact and description information can be
found in the CREDITS file that accompanies the kernel sources.

--
Mail submissions for comp.os.linux.announce to: 
linux-announce at tc.cornell.edu
PLEASE remember Keywords: and a short description of the software. 



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 14 21:03:14 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:03:14 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] WJR Internet Advisor program
Message-ID: <49BC53D2.2090303@gmail.com>

This is one of the "Weekend Experts" programs:
http://www.wjr.com/sectional.asp?id=6911
http://www.wjr.com/Sectional.asp?id=6427

They frequently have MacOS specialist on.

Any mention of Linux is treated as being extremely esoteric
and almost bizarre by the three primary hosts who, while nice
people, seem to have knowledge of nothing other than Windows.

Gary Baker is a high level CIO type, but has most of his
experience in the era of IBM Mainframe + proprietary *ix +
lots of pre-packaged MS "solutions" (polutions?) at the
desktop level.  He seems to be part of the "old guard" who
considers Linux to be an inferior competitor to HP-UX/Solaris/etc.

Ed Rudel is... well, a tinkerer who's experience is strictly
limited to MS products (other than using a Linux-based rescue
CD to repair self-destructed Windows systems).  He has about
10 years with EDS, but it all seems to be limited strictly
to Windows desktop support.

Primary host Foster Braun is a non-technical guy in his 60's,
who basically organizes the calls/keeps the show flowing, and
makes sure that jargon is explained so that listeners understand
technical answers.  The only reason he's aware of Linux is 
because it's mentioned by callers occasionally.  In many ways,
he represents the typical home user, whose knowledge in the
area is slim, and so prods the experts to make sure they
explain things to a satisfactory amount for non-technical listeners.

So, anyways, to get to my point:

Suppose we volunteered to field Linux questions -- and put
in that we are volunteers who can come in on a rotating
basis, and simultaneously, plug MDLUG ;-)


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 14 21:48:51 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:48:51 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] WJR Internet Advisor program
Message-ID: <49BC5E83.3040507@gmail.com>

This is one of the "Weekend Experts" programs:
http://www.wjr.com/sectional.asp?id=6911
http://www.wjr.com/Sectional.asp?id=6427

They frequently have MacOS specialist on.

Any mention of Linux is treated as being extremely esoteric
and almost bizarre by the three primary hosts who, while nice
people, seem to have knowledge of nothing other than Windows.

Gary Baker is a high level CIO type, but has most of his
experience in the era of IBM Mainframe + proprietary *ix +
lots of pre-packaged MS "solutions" (polutions?) at the
desktop level.  He seems to be part of the "old guard" who
considers Linux to be an inferior competitor to HP-UX/Solaris/etc.

Ed Rudel is... well, a tinkerer who's experience is strictly
limited to MS products (other than using a Linux-based rescue
CD to repair self-destructed Windows systems).  He has about
10 years with EDS, but it all seems to be limited strictly
to Windows desktop support.

Primary host Foster Braun is a non-technical guy in his 60's,
who basically organizes the calls/keeps the show flowing, and
makes sure that jargon is explained so that listeners understand
technical answers.  The only reason he's aware of Linux is 
because it's mentioned by callers occasionally.  In many ways,
he represents the typical home user, whose knowledge in the
area is slim, and so prods the experts to make sure they
explain things to a satisfactory amount for non-technical listeners.

So, anyways, to get to my point:

Suppose we volunteered to field Linux questions -- and put
in that we are volunteers who can come in on a rotating
basis, and simultaneously, plug MDLUG ;-)

We could definitely raise awareness of Linux and its very
advantageous performance/price ratio for small/medum sized
business owners.

[Don't expect to be paid -- only a core group of people on
any radio station are paid: the rest are volunteering their
time for one reason or another -- interning to learn the



From driveray at ameritech.net  Sat Mar 14 23:26:04 2009
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 23:26:04 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Laptop Hardware issues
In-Reply-To: <20090228141646.9A7C120AAD0@starfox.local>
References: <49A674B7.5020503@ameritech.net>	<20090226140846.D67C420AAD0@starfox.local>	<b67fb0380902261000l9fabd5dled537385129503ee@mail.gmail.com>	<49A6F3FD.4020406@ameritech.net>
	<20090228141646.9A7C120AAD0@starfox.local>
Message-ID: <49BC754C.5030300@ameritech.net>

One of the subjects that the discussion turned to at today's meeting was
this poor dead laptop. The discussion started
here:<http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/2009-February/006448.html>

Robert Meier wrote:
> Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
>> Michael Rudas wrote:
>>> Robert Meier wrote:
>>>> I suspect a bad power supply.
>>>
>>> As someone who has repaired hundreds of switching power supplies, I
>>> agree with Bob--the power supply is likely defective or marginal,
>>> probably a bad electrolytic capacitor.  ...
> 
>> By power supply do you mean the brick that I plug in the wall?
> 
> The power supply in question is the component that the "brick"
> plugs into on the laptop side.  It is likely to be an aluminum box
> with the socket to plug the "brick" into and several ribbon/zip
> cables with only 2, 3, or 4 conduits each.

Here is a picture of where the round power connector plugs into the
laptop:<http://mdlug.org/contacts/president/scripts+scraps/images/p1010042.html>
Not much in the way of components there. (The other side of that circuit
board has no components at all, save the plastic plug with the power
out.)  Also I doubt that any of these components are the source of the
problem, the battery charged with out problem. And when running (or
trying to run) off battery these parts aren't in the circuit.
Here's another shot that shows the cable that takes the power to the
mother board, it's the square plug.
<http://mdlug.org/contacts/president/scripts+scraps/images/p1010038.html>

And in this shot
<http://mdlug.org/contacts/president/scripts+scraps/images/p1010036.html>
you can see the white square connector that takes that square plug. Just
above that are the 6 tines that connect into the battery. I don't see
anything in this vicinity that looks like a "switching power supply"
such as you have described. Those "R45X 7126Q" components could be solid
state DC/DC  converters. Here's a better look at how they look at how
they are attached to the board.
<http://mdlug.org/contacts/president/scripts+scraps/images/p1010045.html>

It looks like a kind of tricky solder job, and I have no idea where to
get replacements. Just googling R45X and 7126Q separately finds  nothing
useful, and both terms in the same search finds nothing at all.


>  It is also likely
> to be a section of the motherboard, with the socket soldered
> to the motherboard, and larger than average traces in that area.
> In either manifestation its purpose is to isolate the computer
> (high-gain) circuitry from fluctuations due to varying load
> or line (brick) noise.

I would expect a modern "brick" to have pretty good noise suppression
built into it.

> 
> The computer circuitry only needs clean steady voltage,
> so attaching the motherboard feed lines to a "bench supply"
> will demonstrate whether or not the laptop power supply
> is indeed the problem.

Again I'm pretty sure I'm supplying the motherboard with steady, clean
power when I try to running from just the (fully charged) battery pack.

> Replacing the coil, diodes, or capacitor is usually an easy
> solder job, as they normally need only be "big enough" not
> "tuned".

Interestingly there isn't a single "can" type capacitor on the whole
board. Any power handling capacitors must be solid state. I'm not sure
what thet look like, but I think that's a couple of them just to the
right of the CMOS battery connection, with the distinct "+" signs on
them.
<http://mdlug.org/contacts/president/scripts+scraps/images/p1010052.html>

> Good luck,


Any more ideas?

Ray



From drew4096 at gmail.com  Sun Mar 15 16:17:42 2009
From: drew4096 at gmail.com (Drew)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:17:42 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Cheap laptop?
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20090315150527.02c609d0@pop.gmail.com>

I'm looking at an ad in today's ABC Warehouse weekly that claims that 
they're selling HP Notebook
computers (HPG70250US/34099) for $50. Yes, there is a single zero 
after the five. There does not
appear to be any fine print saying anything like "per month" or "with 
purchase of an uber-expensive
per-month service for several years". It's listed with a 17 inch 
screen, and Lightscribe (which implies
a DVD burner).

The downsides: It only has a "320mb" hard drive; and it has Windows Vista.

----

- Drew.



From peter at petertheplumber.net  Sun Mar 15 16:28:45 2009
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 16:28:45 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Cheap laptop?
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20090315150527.02c609d0@pop.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20090315150527.02c609d0@pop.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1237148925.26042.187.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

On Sun, 2009-03-15 at 15:17 -0500, Drew wrote:
> I'm looking at an ad in today's ABC Warehouse weekly that claims that 
> they're selling HP Notebook
> computers (HPG70250US/34099) for $50. Yes, there is a single zero 
> after the five. There does not
> appear to be any fine print saying anything like "per month" or "with 
> purchase of an uber-expensive
> per-month service for several years". It's listed with a 17 inch 
> screen, and Lightscribe (which implies
> a DVD burner).
> 
> The downsides: It only has a "320mb" hard drive; and it has Windows Vista.
> 

	If you have a paper copy, can I have it after you're done with it?
ABC's website lists that notebook for ?$679 After $50.00 Mail-In Rebate.
I'd buy several at that price!!!

<http://www.abcwarehouse.com/search.asp~searchstring~34099~count~1>

<http://www.abcwarehouse.com/search.asp~searchstring~HPG70250US~count~1>
                                    

Best Regards,
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
Peter The Plumber



From peter at petertheplumber.net  Sun Mar 15 16:40:14 2009
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 16:40:14 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Cheap laptop?
In-Reply-To: <1237148925.26042.187.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20090315150527.02c609d0@pop.gmail.com>
	<1237148925.26042.187.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <1237149614.26042.192.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

On Sun, 2009-03-15 at 16:28 -0400, Peter Bart wrote:
> On Sun, 2009-03-15 at 15:17 -0500, Drew wrote:
> > I'm looking at an ad in today's ABC Warehouse weekly that claims that 
> > they're selling HP Notebook
> > computers (HPG70250US/34099) for $50. Yes, there is a single zero 
> > after the five. There does not
> > appear to be any fine print saying anything like "per month" or "with 
> > purchase of an uber-expensive
> > per-month service for several years". It's listed with a 17 inch 
> > screen, and Lightscribe (which implies
> > a DVD burner).
> > 
> > The downsides: It only has a "320mb" hard drive; and it has Windows Vista.
> > 
> 
> 	If you have a paper copy, can I have it after you're done with it?
> ABC's website lists that notebook for ?$679 After $50.00 Mail-In Rebate.
> I'd buy several at that price!!!
> 
> <http://www.abcwarehouse.com/search.asp~searchstring~34099~count~1>
> 
> <http://www.abcwarehouse.com/search.asp~searchstring~HPG70250US~count~1>
>                                     

	It is in fact as Drew stated. It's a typo, either on purpose or
accident. The paper lists the model number and MB instead of GB for the
hard drive. I'd like to see Vista run on that one! The price is listed
in the paper as $50, no limit or restrictions. I'm going to try, but I
can allready tell you what they'll say........

Best Regards,

-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
Peter The Plumber



From c_malmsten at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 15 21:48:19 2009
From: c_malmsten at yahoo.com (CLMalmsten)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 18:48:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Thanks from a newbie
Message-ID: <928651.57907.qm@web56401.mail.re3.yahoo.com>


Hi all, just wanted to write in and let you know how much I appreciate your help yesterday. You taught me so much in so little time, and I walked out feeling like I'd taken a giant step towards *finally* installing a Linux OS. There's only so much a Google search can do for me - to be able to talk with and see real live Linux users meant a lot to me.

Thanks again,
Christy


      


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 19:20:59 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:20:59 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into Tech
	Industry
Message-ID: <49BEDEDB.5030809@gmail.com>

Oh
My
God

<http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/03/tempers-flare-as-recession-creeps-into.html>


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 21:12:04 2009
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 21:12:04 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into
	Tech Industry
In-Reply-To: <49BEDEDB.5030809@gmail.com>
References: <49BEDEDB.5030809@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90903161812y404dbeb9se9eb0ae6149be3f9@mail.gmail.com>

2009/3/16 Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>:
> Oh
> My
> God
>
> <http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/03/tempers-flare-as-recession-creeps-into.html>

Read that a week or so ago.  Glad he came out on top.  The marketing
basis of the company is not surprising.  The existence of Microsoft's
Live OneCare is proof enough.


From micorral at comcast.net  Mon Mar 16 22:00:24 2009
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 22:00:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into
 Tech Industry
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90903161812y404dbeb9se9eb0ae6149be3f9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49BEDEDB.5030809@gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90903161812y404dbeb9se9eb0ae6149be3f9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0903162148250.4642@banana.sluggo.net>

2009-03-16, Monsieur Jeff Hanson a ecrit:
> 2009/3/16 Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>:
>> <http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/03/tempers-flare-as-recession-creeps-into.html>
>
> Read that a week or so ago.  Glad he came out on top.

Well, according to him he came out on top. For all we know the other guy
could've beaten the snot out of him, and he's only now getting out of the
hospital to blog about it. :)

I think he made the whole thing up. The tip-off is usually when guys like
this start bragging about their fighting ability and/or martial arts
skills. It's just a little bit too much like Internet Tough Guy:
http://imgur.com/3JXUA
In fact, this guy seems to have a history of making things up, from what
I understand. Stories on the interweb are occasionally not true. :)

Michael


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 23:22:18 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 23:22:18 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into
 Tech Industry
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0903162148250.4642@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <49BEDEDB.5030809@gmail.com>	<b02c40e90903161812y404dbeb9se9eb0ae6149be3f9@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903162148250.4642@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <49BF176A.2020503@gmail.com>

Michael Corral wrote:
> 2009-03-16, Monsieur Jeff Hanson a ecrit:
>> 2009/3/16 Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>:
>>> <http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/03/tempers-flare-as-recession-creeps-into.html>
>> Read that a week or so ago.  Glad he came out on top.
> 
> Well, according to him he came out on top. For all we know the other guy
> could've beaten the snot out of him, and he's only now getting out of the
> hospital to blog about it. :)
> 
> I think he made the whole thing up. The tip-off is usually when guys like
> this start bragging about their fighting ability and/or martial arts
> skills.

Where was there any mention of that?
He just said that a junior-level field-tech got all pissed
because he sees Linux as the cause of declining "guaranteed
revenue" to service Windows, and a manager in the guy's
chain of supervision was in the van, too, called the guy off.

> It's just a little bit too much like Internet Tough Guy:
> http://imgur.com/3JXUA

Ha! Funny pic.

> In fact, this guy seems to have a history of making things up, from what
> I understand.

What else has he made up?

His previous brush with fame
<http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding-our-kids-back.html>
 turned out to be true.

> Stories on the interweb are occasionally not true. :)

Oftenso. Especially on Wikipedia.


From radkins at impelind.com  Tue Mar 17 09:27:39 2009
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:27:39 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into
	Tech Industry
In-Reply-To: <49BF176A.2020503@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090317135348.520BBC0D3@impelind.com>



> >> Read that a week or so ago.  Glad he came out on top.
> > 
> > Well, according to him he came out on top. For all we know 
> the other 
> > guy could've beaten the snot out of him, and he's only now 
> getting out 
> > of the hospital to blog about it. :)
> > 
> > I think he made the whole thing up. The tip-off is usually 
> when guys 
> > like this start bragging about their fighting ability 
> and/or martial 
> > arts skills.
> 
> Where was there any mention of that?
> He just said that a junior-level field-tech got all pissed 
> because he sees Linux as the cause of declining "guaranteed 
> revenue" to service Windows, and a manager in the guy's chain 
> of supervision was in the van, too, called the guy off.
> 

  He strongly implied that the confrontation turned physical and he had to
defend himself, thus protecting the only hair he has left (his ponytail). He
clearly stated that he was the only one to remain on his feet.

  While I can see some tempers flare over some stupid things, I am unsure
that some nerd herd employee would flip out like a Ninja and try to beat
someone at a gas station parking lot.

  -Rob



From driveray at ameritech.net  Tue Mar 17 11:07:02 2009
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 11:07:02 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into
 Tech Industry
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0903162148250.4642@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <49BEDEDB.5030809@gmail.com>	<b02c40e90903161812y404dbeb9se9eb0ae6149be3f9@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903162148250.4642@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <49BFBC96.4020507@ameritech.net>

Michael Corral wrote:

> I think he made the whole thing up. The tip-off is usually when guys like
> this start bragging about their fighting ability and/or martial arts
> skills. 

My impression was that he refrained from bragging out of concern about
potential litigation.


From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Wed Mar 18 00:23:04 2009
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Robert Meier)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 00:23:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Violence resulting from FUD [Was: Re: Blog of helios: ...]
In-Reply-To: <20090317135348.520BBC0D3@impelind.com> (radkins@impelind.com)
References: <20090317135348.520BBC0D3@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <20090318042304.B979320AAEB@starfox.local>

Rob,

> While I can see some tempers flare over some stupid things,
> I am unsure that some nerd herd employee would flip out
> like a Ninja and try to beat someone at a gas station parking lot.

I have seen similar things unfortunately,
up to and including credible threat of physical violence,
over use of non-Microsoft products,
that FUD incorrectly equated with virus propogation.

I have witnessed a father discipline their teenage child
(a week without internet?) for using "theft tools".

Reporting,
-- 
Bob

  "Each problem that I solved became a rule,
   which served afterwards to solve other problems."
     -- Rene Descartes



From gib at juno.com  Wed Mar 18 10:45:03 2009
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:45:03 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into Tech
	In	dustry
Message-ID: <20090318.104503.14856.1@webmail09.vgs.untd.com>

 
So, how do we enlist the help of people in the PC service industry?  
How can we find a way to help this person retain his job?

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
To: "mdlug at mdlug.org" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into Tech Industry
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:20:59 -0400

Oh
My
God

<http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/03/tempers-flare-as-recession-creeps-into.html>
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

____________________________________________________________
Free Fashion Design Education Information. Click now.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/BLSrjnsM7HZfBJ9mnPqiThZw0a6YeJmGDZzwafjM4aHPSczUtqbNIspDVA0/


From gib at juno.com  Wed Mar 18 11:26:06 2009
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:26:06 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into
	Tec	h In dustry
Message-ID: <20090318.112606.3446.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>

 
Perhaps this could be a meeting topic.  Could we send out invitations to people who work in PC support to meet with us to talk about Linux?
We could show them tools that will allow them to better support the PC diagnosis and repair.
We could help them to understand how they can provide better products to their customers.
I would suggest that it would only cost about $40 to put a classified ad in the local papers.

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "gib at juno.com" <gib at juno.com>
To: mdlug at mdlug.org
Cc: mdlug at mdlug.org
Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into Tech In dustry
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:45:03 GMT


 
So, how do we enlist the help of people in the PC service industry?  
How can we find a way to help this person retain his job?

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
To: "mdlug at mdlug.org" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into Tech Industry
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:20:59 -0400

Oh
My
God

<http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/03/tempers-flare-as-recession-creeps-into.html>
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

____________________________________________________________
Get educated.  Click here for Adult Education programs.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/BLSrjnsIn6KQ5pP9KTJ9eviiaa1qKgJIKRjYAbOMIB7aVw2379Og1qocHmQ/


From rkannan at peoplepc.com  Wed Mar 18 12:03:40 2009
From: rkannan at peoplepc.com (R. Kannan)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 12:03:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps
	into	Tec	h In dustry
Message-ID: <23091247.1237392221313.JavaMail.root@elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

If these guys wanted to learn Linux and adapt to change, they wouldn't be engaging in violence. 

If they are too lazy to learn something new and a predisposition against Linux, they would not be coming to MDLUG meeting anyway.

-----Original Message-----
>From: "gib at juno.com" <gib at juno.com>
>Sent: Mar 18, 2009 11:26 AM
>To: Undisclosed-recipients at null, null at null
>Subject: Re: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into	Tec	h In dustry
>
> 
>Perhaps this could be a meeting topic.  Could we send out invitations to people who work in PC support to meet with us to talk about Linux?
>We could show them tools that will allow them to better support the PC diagnosis and repair.
>We could help them to understand how they can provide better products to their customers.
>I would suggest that it would only cost about $40 to put a classified ad in the local papers.
>
>---------- Original Message ----------
>From: "gib at juno.com" <gib at juno.com>
>To: mdlug at mdlug.org
>Cc: mdlug at mdlug.org
>Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into Tech In dustry
>Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:45:03 GMT
>
>
> 
>So, how do we enlist the help of people in the PC service industry?  
>How can we find a way to help this person retain his job?
>
>---------- Original Message ----------
>From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
>To: "mdlug at mdlug.org" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into Tech Industry
>Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:20:59 -0400
>
>Oh
>My
>God
>
><http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/03/tempers-flare-as-recession-creeps-into.html>
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>____________________________________________________________
>Get educated.  Click here for Adult Education programs.
>http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/BLSrjnsIn6KQ5pP9KTJ9eviiaa1qKgJIKRjYAbOMIB7aVw2379Og1qocHmQ/
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 18 12:54:02 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 12:54:02 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into
 Tech In	dustry
In-Reply-To: <20090318.104503.14856.1@webmail09.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20090318.104503.14856.1@webmail09.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <49C1272A.7000408@gmail.com>

gib at juno.com wrote:
>  
> So, how do we enlist the help of people in the PC service industry?  

Personally, I don't care about them.  Their decision to partake
in a business model which can only be described as parasitic
it not my responsibility.  I don't think they'll ever get the
support of people whose primary work consists of carrying
around anti-virus and MS filesystem defraggers.

They perform NO value-added work, because, frankly, they don't
have the ability to do so in the computer industry.  Their
mentality is very similar to someone in a "featherbed" job
in a UAW plant -- they will fight, kicking and screaming, ANY
change to the system, because the current system means that
they get paid for not doing anything of actual value.

Lazy people LOVE "make work" situations in which efficiency
is specifically avoided, as opposed to an even semi-rational
system in which efficiency improvements are one of the goals.

> How can we find a way to help this person retain his job?

If he's too stubborn to learn to use something that's FREE,
that's his own, self-created problem.

> 
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
> To: "mdlug at mdlug.org" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into Tech Industry
> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:20:59 -0400
> 
> Oh
> My
> God
> 
> <http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/03/tempers-flare-as-recession-creeps-into.html>


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 18 12:56:12 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 12:56:12 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into
 Tec	h In dustry
In-Reply-To: <20090318.112606.3446.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20090318.112606.3446.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <49C127AC.7060504@gmail.com>

gib at juno.com wrote:
>  
> Perhaps this could be a meeting topic.  Could we send out invitations to people who work in PC support to meet with us to talk about Linux?
> We could show them tools that will allow them to better support the PC diagnosis and repair.
> We could help them to understand how they can provide better products to their customers.
> I would suggest that it would only cost about $40 to put a classified ad in the local papers.
> 

This is one of the reasons why I think we should be getting
Linux into the local school districts.

Imagine if every driver's education program in the country
was settling on one make of car, which was generally, and
specifically designed to be incompatible with all other
vehicles on the market?  Parents would throw a fit!!!

> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: "gib at juno.com" <gib at juno.com>
> To: mdlug at mdlug.org
> Cc: mdlug at mdlug.org
> Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into Tech In dustry
> Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:45:03 GMT
> 
> 
>  
> So, how do we enlist the help of people in the PC service industry?  
> How can we find a way to help this person retain his job?
> 
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
> To: "mdlug at mdlug.org" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into Tech Industry
> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:20:59 -0400
> 
> Oh
> My
> God
> 
> <http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/03/tempers-flare-as-recession-creeps-into.html>


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 18 15:10:43 2009
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 12:10:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into
	Tec h In dustry
References: <23091247.1237392221313.JavaMail.root@elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <68675.89051.qm@web37907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

At a site in California, I had a heated battle over Windows Vs. Linux on a project that I was in charge of.? I was a Regular staff and there was a contractor managing, My solution would have saved lots of money. Because we were going to flip a pc that was older and use MySQL. 

Instead I was FORCED to use Windows and MSSQL.? The project was a success but every once in a while the ODBC drivers would error out. I still had admin rights to that server, and when the admin staff said that it was my fault as a programmer I spent 3 days looking at my code, I accually made it run faster, but I never found what they were talking about.? 

I finally crossed linked the web and data servers and found that I was right in the first place. I showed what I did to find the problem, witch made that admin staff MAD because I had to do their job to show what was realy wrong.? needless to say I lost my admin rights to the TEST and LIVE servers.

Those that chose to move forward in the Linux Era, are generally more open to many different I.T. resources.? in the long run you are more of a resource then those that take the easy path of Windows. I have to admit I have a mixed envirnment at home both Windows and Linux.? I prefer Linux but I conceed that there are?many programs that are just just not available for Linux.? 

If My business got bigger I would use Linux as much as I could.? Accually I am, my web server is Linux (LAMP).? 

That is how Google got big.

David C. Lane




________________________________
From: R. Kannan <rkannan at peoplepc.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>; Undisclosed-recipients at null.mdlug.org; null at null.mdlug.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 12:03:40 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into Tec h In dustry

If these guys wanted to learn Linux and adapt to change, they wouldn't be engaging in violence. 

If they are too lazy to learn something new and a predisposition against Linux, they would not be coming to MDLUG meeting anyway.

-----Original Message-----
>From: "gib at juno.com" <gib at juno.com>
>Sent: Mar 18, 2009 11:26 AM
>To: Undisclosed-recipients at null, null at null
>Subject: Re: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into??? Tec??? h In dustry
>
> 
>Perhaps this could be a meeting topic.? Could we send out invitations to people who work in PC support to meet with us to talk about Linux?
>We could show them tools that will allow them to better support the PC diagnosis and repair.
>We could help them to understand how they can provide better products to their customers.
>I would suggest that it would only cost about $40 to put a classified ad in the local papers.
>
>---------- Original Message ----------
>From: "gib at juno.com" <gib at juno.com>
>To: mdlug at mdlug.org
>Cc: mdlug at mdlug.org
>Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into Tech In dustry
>Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:45:03 GMT
>
>
> 
>So, how do we enlist the help of people in the PC service industry?? 
>How can we find a way to help this person retain his job?
>
>---------- Original Message ----------
>From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
>To: "mdlug at mdlug.org" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into Tech Industry
>Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:20:59 -0400
>
>Oh
>My
>God
>
><http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/03/tempers-flare-as-recession-creeps-into.html>
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>____________________________________________________________
>Get educated.? Click here for Adult Education programs.
>http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/BLSrjnsIn6KQ5pP9KTJ9eviiaa1qKgJIKRjYAbOMIB7aVw2379Og1qocHmQ/
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      


From drew4096 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 18 15:50:46 2009
From: drew4096 at gmail.com (Drew)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:50:46 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Blog of helios: Tempers Flare as Recession Creeps into
 Tech In	dustry
In-Reply-To: <49C1272A.7000408@gmail.com>
References: <20090318.104503.14856.1@webmail09.vgs.untd.com>
	<49C1272A.7000408@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20090318144520.02c48200@pop.gmail.com>

At 11:54 AM 3/18/09, Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>Lazy people LOVE "make work" situations in which efficiency
>is specifically avoided, as opposed to an even semi-rational
>system in which efficiency improvements are one of the goals.

Hey, I'm lazy and I don't like that sort of make-work at all. I want 
more efficient
production everywhere in order to reduce the *need* for people (including me)
to work.

(How to keep everyone employed when the need for man-hours is severely reduced
this way? Simple. Cut the required work week to compensate for the increased
efficiency. I rather thought that was what more efficient production 
was *for*.)

----

- Drew.





From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 20 10:36:06 2009
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 07:36:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Video and Movie making tools.
Message-ID: <151880.21384.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi,

I'm having problems with my Premier Elements on my Windows box, and I'm looking for Video editing and movie making tools on linux. Is there any thing out there?

David C. Lane 



      


From painbank at gmail.com  Fri Mar 20 11:22:45 2009
From: painbank at gmail.com (Rich Elswick)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 11:22:45 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Video and Movie making tools.
In-Reply-To: <151880.21384.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <151880.21384.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cafacd830903200822p26533002jbec613b4815e6718@mail.gmail.com>

Cinelerra and Open Movie Editor are two I believe you may want to check out.

There are a few others too.

Rich

On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 10:36 AM, David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm having problems with my Premier Elements on my Windows box, and I'm
> looking for Video editing and movie making tools on linux. Is there any
> thing out there?
>
> David C. Lane
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>



-- 
Rich Elswick


From tony at bemushosting.com  Fri Mar 20 13:09:41 2009
From: tony at bemushosting.com (Tony Bemus)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 13:09:41 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Video and Movie making tools.
In-Reply-To: <cafacd830903200822p26533002jbec613b4815e6718@mail.gmail.com>
References: <151880.21384.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<cafacd830903200822p26533002jbec613b4815e6718@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49C3CDD5.3000007@bemushosting.com>

I use Kino and Qdvdauthor


Rich Elswick wrote:
> Cinelerra and Open Movie Editor are two I believe you may want to check out.
>
> There are a few others too.
>
> Rich
>
> On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 10:36 AM, David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>   
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm having problems with my Premier Elements on my Windows box, and I'm
>> looking for Video editing and movie making tools on linux. Is there any
>> thing out there?
>>
>> David C. Lane
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mdlug mailing list
>> mdlug at mdlug.org
>> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>>
>>     
>
>
>
>   


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 20 13:23:25 2009
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 10:23:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Video and Movie making tools.
In-Reply-To: <49C3CDD5.3000007@bemushosting.com>
References: <151880.21384.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<cafacd830903200822p26533002jbec613b4815e6718@mail.gmail.com>
	<49C3CDD5.3000007@bemushosting.com>
Message-ID: <337076.79785.qm@web37907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Do they render DVD's?




________________________________
From: Tony Bemus <tony at bemushosting.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 1:09:41 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Video and Movie making tools.

I use Kino and Qdvdauthor


Rich Elswick wrote:
> Cinelerra and Open Movie Editor are two I believe you may want to check out.
>
> There are a few others too.
>
> Rich
>
> On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 10:36 AM, David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>? 
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm having problems with my Premier Elements on my Windows box, and I'm
>> looking for Video editing and movie making tools on linux. Is there any
>> thing out there?
>>
>> David C. Lane
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mdlug mailing list
>> mdlug at mdlug.org
>> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>>
>>? ? 
>
>
>
>? 
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      


From painbank at gmail.com  Fri Mar 20 13:24:11 2009
From: painbank at gmail.com (Rich Elswick)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 13:24:11 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Video and Movie making tools.
In-Reply-To: <49C3CDD5.3000007@bemushosting.com>
References: <151880.21384.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<cafacd830903200822p26533002jbec613b4815e6718@mail.gmail.com>
	<49C3CDD5.3000007@bemushosting.com>
Message-ID: <cafacd830903201024l57f80dcbwaf5931e9d2a086d2@mail.gmail.com>

Of course you also may want to try out Ubunto Studio distro, which I believe
have all these and some.

Rich

On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Tony Bemus <tony at bemushosting.com> wrote:

> I use Kino and Qdvdauthor
>
>
> Rich Elswick wrote:
> > Cinelerra and Open Movie Editor are two I believe you may want to check
> out.
> >
> > There are a few others too.
> >
> > Rich
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 10:36 AM, David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I'm having problems with my Premier Elements on my Windows box, and I'm
> >> looking for Video editing and movie making tools on linux. Is there any
> >> thing out there?
> >>
> >> David C. Lane
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> mdlug mailing list
> >> mdlug at mdlug.org
> >> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>



-- 
Rich Elswick


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 20 13:33:29 2009
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 10:33:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Video and Movie making tools.
In-Reply-To: <cafacd830903201024l57f80dcbwaf5931e9d2a086d2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <151880.21384.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<cafacd830903200822p26533002jbec613b4815e6718@mail.gmail.com>
	<49C3CDD5.3000007@bemushosting.com>
	<cafacd830903201024l57f80dcbwaf5931e9d2a086d2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <584708.88332.qm@web37907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Okay I will look at my Suse Install Media.? To see what is there.? 

This may elemanate the need for one of my Windows box's. 

David 




________________________________
From: Rich Elswick <painbank at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 1:24:11 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Video and Movie making tools.

Of course you also may want to try out Ubunto Studio distro, which I believe
have all these and some.

Rich

On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Tony Bemus <tony at bemushosting.com> wrote:

> I use Kino and Qdvdauthor
>
>
> Rich Elswick wrote:
> > Cinelerra and Open Movie Editor are two I believe you may want to check
> out.
> >
> > There are a few others too.
> >
> > Rich
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 10:36 AM, David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I'm having problems with my Premier Elements on my Windows box, and I'm
> >> looking for Video editing and movie making tools on linux. Is there any
> >> thing out there?
> >>
> >> David C. Lane
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> mdlug mailing list
> >> mdlug at mdlug.org
> >> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>



-- 
Rich Elswick
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      


From painbank at gmail.com  Fri Mar 20 13:58:01 2009
From: painbank at gmail.com (Rich Elswick)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 13:58:01 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Video and Movie making tools.
In-Reply-To: <584708.88332.qm@web37907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <151880.21384.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<cafacd830903200822p26533002jbec613b4815e6718@mail.gmail.com>
	<49C3CDD5.3000007@bemushosting.com>
	<cafacd830903201024l57f80dcbwaf5931e9d2a086d2@mail.gmail.com>
	<584708.88332.qm@web37907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cafacd830903201058g6d7a328fwf0f0a3b665ece86e@mail.gmail.com>

Just make sure the editors can do all you want, since the linux video
editing tools, from my very limited experience, lag seriously behind the
professional tools for Windows and Macs out there.

Rich

On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 1:33 PM, David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Okay I will look at my Suse Install Media.  To see what is there.
>
> This may elemanate the need for one of my Windows box's.
>
> David
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Rich Elswick <painbank at gmail.com>
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 1:24:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Video and Movie making tools.
>
> Of course you also may want to try out Ubunto Studio distro, which I
> believe
> have all these and some.
>
> Rich
>
> On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Tony Bemus <tony at bemushosting.com> wrote:
>
> > I use Kino and Qdvdauthor
> >
> >
> > Rich Elswick wrote:
> > > Cinelerra and Open Movie Editor are two I believe you may want to check
> > out.
> > >
> > > There are a few others too.
> > >
> > > Rich
> > >
> > > On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 10:36 AM, David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >> Hi,
> > >>
> > >> I'm having problems with my Premier Elements on my Windows box, and
> I'm
> > >> looking for Video editing and movie making tools on linux. Is there
> any
> > >> thing out there?
> > >>
> > >> David C. Lane
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> mdlug mailing list
> > >> mdlug at mdlug.org
> > >> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > mdlug mailing list
> > mdlug at mdlug.org
> > http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Rich Elswick
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>



-- 
Rich Elswick


From driveray at ameritech.net  Fri Mar 20 14:36:49 2009
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 14:36:49 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Video and Movie making tools.
In-Reply-To: <584708.88332.qm@web37907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <151880.21384.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<cafacd830903200822p26533002jbec613b4815e6718@mail.gmail.com>	<49C3CDD5.3000007@bemushosting.com>	<cafacd830903201024l57f80dcbwaf5931e9d2a086d2@mail.gmail.com>
	<584708.88332.qm@web37907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49C3E241.6060508@ameritech.net>

David Lane wrote:
> Okay I will look at my Suse Install Media.  To see what is there.  
> 
> This may elemanate the need for one of my Windows box's. 
> 
> David 

If you are using SuSE/ OpenSUSE you should definitely add online
repositories to your software selection in YAST. Especciall the VideoLan
and Packman repos.




From drew4096 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 20 21:53:46 2009
From: drew4096 at gmail.com (Drew)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 20:53:46 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Booting CD images from a hard drive partition
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20090320194948.02c420d0@pop.gmail.com>

I wish to set aside one or more partitions on the new hard drive for 
holding a copy of
a Linux boot CD, such as Knoppix, PC-OS, or RIPLinux, to have a copy ready to
boot without needing to dig out the CD.

I've managed to get Grub, on the MBR and with its config files in 
/dev/sda2, to boot
into another copy of Grub on /dev/sda5 via rootnoverify / chainloader 
+1; with that copy of
grub giving a choice of kernels in Suse. I'm doing the same thing 
with the master Grub
for the CD image.

My menu.lst for the MBR Grub looks (partially) like this:

# Other bootable partition config begins
   title DOS on (/dev/hda1)
   rootnoverify (hd0,0)
   makeactive
   chainloader +1
   title SUSE on (/dev/hda5)
   rootnoverify (hd0,4)
# makeactive
   chainloader +1
   title RIPlinux on (/dev/hda6)
   rootnoverify (hd0,5)
# makeactive
   chainloader +1
# Other bootable partition config ends
# Linux bootable partition config begins
   title Linux on (/dev/hda5)
   root (hd0,4)
   kernel /boot/vmlinuz root=/dev/hda5 ro vga=normal
# Linux bootable partition config ends

Selecting the Suse option that uses the chainloader command works as 
expected. Presumably
it just jumps to the very beginning of /dev/hda5 where the other copy 
of Grub picks up and does
its thing. Now to get the RIPLinux option to do the same thing.

First attempt: Simply dd the CD onto the partition, then try to boot 
it. I got "isolinux.bin missing
or corrupt".

Next I tried map (cd) (hd0,5) and map (hd0,5) (cd) at which commands 
it choked. So I took them
out.

Then I copied the CD to a directory, changed all instances of (cd) to 
(hd0,5) in its boot/grub/menu.lst,
and made a new CD image with mkisofs, following the directions in 
boot/doc/isolinux.txt on the CD.
I dd'd that to the partition and tried booting it. Back to 
"isolinux.bin missing or corrupt".

I then processed the image with the 'isohybrid' script on the CD, 
then again dd'd it to the partition.
Same result. Also same result doing isohybrid on an unchanged iso copy.

Okay, what do I need to do to get it to find the isolinux.bin file?

BTW: I am aware that there is an "install to hard drive" option when 
the CD itself is booted. I'd
rather not use that if I can avoid it; I rather like the 'it's a 
fresh system every reboot' aspect of booting
from the CD. I just want to do it without actually using the CDROM drive.

----

- Drew.




From micorral at comcast.net  Fri Mar 20 22:42:49 2009
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 22:42:49 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Video and Movie making tools.
In-Reply-To: <151880.21384.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <151880.21384.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0903202242320.2985@banana.sluggo.net>

2009-03-20, Monsieur David Lane a ecrit:
> I'm having problems with my Premier Elements on my Windows box, and
> I'm looking for Video editing and movie making tools on linux. Is there
> any thing out there?

I use Emacs for video editing: http://1010.co.uk/gneve.html

Michael


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Fri Mar 20 23:10:45 2009
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 23:10:45 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Booting CD images from a hard drive partition
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20090320194948.02c420d0@pop.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20090320194948.02c420d0@pop.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90903202010p2aef2c6bu9cbcb264d62a3d5a@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 9:53 PM, Drew <drew4096 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I wish to set aside one or more partitions on the new hard drive for
> holding a copy of
> a Linux boot CD, such as Knoppix, PC-OS, or RIPLinux, to have a copy ready to
> boot without needing to dig out the CD.
>

I've never tried that. On my network I have a server with the ISO
images mounted.  I netboot with PXELinux from a TFTP server.  It then
loads my custom ubuntu-installer menus where I can select from several
different Ubuntu ISOs, Mandriva, Knoppix, DSL, and Parted Magic (the
latter two from huge initrds instead of ISOs).  The ISOs are accessed
over NFS.  For installations I have some basic kickstart configs for
Ubuntu which set some defaults for the "alternate" installers.  Works
pretty good with systems that can netboot.  Been meaning to document
this mess.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Fri Mar 20 23:15:22 2009
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 23:15:22 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Video and Movie making tools.
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0903202242320.2985@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <151880.21384.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903202242320.2985@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90903202015h510556f0v23264b7b92da1816@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 10:42 PM, Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net> wrote:
> I use Emacs for video editing: http://1010.co.uk/gneve.html
>

Wow.  I wouldn't be surprised if at some point integrated ext3/ext4
filesystem support is developed for emacs so that it doesn't need a
kernel anymore (just to reduce overhead).


From carl at carltm.com  Sat Mar 21 06:22:58 2009
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 06:22:58 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Booting CD images from a hard drive partition
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90903202010p2aef2c6bu9cbcb264d62a3d5a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20090320194948.02c420d0@pop.gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90903202010p2aef2c6bu9cbcb264d62a3d5a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51467.216.144.203.250.1237630979.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> I've never tried that. On my network I have a server with the ISO
> images mounted.  I netboot with PXELinux from a TFTP server.  It then
> loads my custom ubuntu-installer menus where I can select from several
> different Ubuntu ISOs, Mandriva, Knoppix, DSL, and Parted Magic (the
> latter two from huge initrds instead of ISOs).  The ISOs are accessed
> over NFS.  For installations I have some basic kickstart configs for
> Ubuntu which set some defaults for the "alternate" installers.  Works
> pretty good with systems that can netboot.  Been meaning to document
> this mess.

Yes, please do!  A couple of years ago I set up a network
booting environment that let me install Debian without needing
a boot floppy or cd.  I had the menu set up to boot normally
as defined in the BIOS or with the Debian installer image.  I
wasn't able to figure out how to add iso images to the mix.

c




From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Mon Mar 23 10:29:43 2009
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 10:29:43 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Booting CD images from a hard drive partition
In-Reply-To: <51467.216.144.203.250.1237630979.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20090320194948.02c420d0@pop.gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90903202010p2aef2c6bu9cbcb264d62a3d5a@mail.gmail.com>
	<51467.216.144.203.250.1237630979.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <9FB6372000B099469B46478B643EE4692D10F875@EXCCRVS1.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

I had a similar set up.  Being the lazy person I am, I had gotten it to the point where I could rack and cable up the server, power it on, then by the time I walked from the datacenter to my desk, the server would be installed and sitting at a prompt for me to ssh into it.

PXE + NFS Install + Kickstart = WIN


-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Carl T. Miller
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 6:23 AM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Booting CD images from a hard drive partition

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> I've never tried that. On my network I have a server with the ISO
> images mounted.  I netboot with PXELinux from a TFTP server.  It then
> loads my custom ubuntu-installer menus where I can select from several
> different Ubuntu ISOs, Mandriva, Knoppix, DSL, and Parted Magic (the
> latter two from huge initrds instead of ISOs).  The ISOs are accessed
> over NFS.  For installations I have some basic kickstart configs for
> Ubuntu which set some defaults for the "alternate" installers.  Works
> pretty good with systems that can netboot.  Been meaning to document
> this mess.

Yes, please do!  A couple of years ago I set up a network
booting environment that let me install Debian without needing
a boot floppy or cd.  I had the menu set up to boot normally
as defined in the BIOS or with the Debian installer image.  I
wasn't able to figure out how to add iso images to the mix.

c


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mdlug mailing list
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http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 23 11:20:50 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 11:20:50 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Booting CD images from a hard drive partition
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20090320194948.02c420d0@pop.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20090320194948.02c420d0@pop.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49C7A8D2.6000602@gmail.com>

Drew wrote:
> I wish to set aside one or more partitions on the new hard drive for 
> holding a copy of
> a Linux boot CD, such as Knoppix, PC-OS, or RIPLinux, to have a copy ready to
> boot without needing to dig out the CD.
> 
> I've managed to get Grub, on the MBR and with its config files in 
> /dev/sda2, to boot
> into another copy of Grub on /dev/sda5 via rootnoverify / chainloader 
> +1; with that copy of
> grub giving a choice of kernels in Suse. I'm doing the same thing 
> with the master Grub
> for the CD image.
> 
> My menu.lst for the MBR Grub looks (partially) like this:
> 
> # Other bootable partition config begins
>    title DOS on (/dev/hda1)
>    rootnoverify (hd0,0)
>    makeactive
>    chainloader +1
>    title SUSE on (/dev/hda5)
>    rootnoverify (hd0,4)
> # makeactive
>    chainloader +1
>    title RIPlinux on (/dev/hda6)
>    rootnoverify (hd0,5)
> # makeactive
>    chainloader +1
> # Other bootable partition config ends
> # Linux bootable partition config begins
>    title Linux on (/dev/hda5)
>    root (hd0,4)
>    kernel /boot/vmlinuz root=/dev/hda5 ro vga=normal
> # Linux bootable partition config ends
> 
> Selecting the Suse option that uses the chainloader command works as 
> expected. Presumably
> it just jumps to the very beginning of /dev/hda5 where the other copy 
> of Grub picks up and does
> its thing. Now to get the RIPLinux option to do the same thing.
> 
> First attempt: Simply dd the CD onto the partition, then try to boot 
> it. I got "isolinux.bin missing
> or corrupt".
> 
> Next I tried map (cd) (hd0,5) and map (hd0,5) (cd) at which commands 
> it choked. So I took them
> out.
> 
> Then I copied the CD to a directory, changed all instances of (cd) to 
> (hd0,5) in its boot/grub/menu.lst,
> and made a new CD image with mkisofs, following the directions in 
> boot/doc/isolinux.txt on the CD.
> I dd'd that to the partition and tried booting it. Back to 
> "isolinux.bin missing or corrupt".
> 
> I then processed the image with the 'isohybrid' script on the CD, 
> then again dd'd it to the partition.
> Same result. Also same result doing isohybrid on an unchanged iso copy.
> 
> Okay, what do I need to do to get it to find the isolinux.bin file?
> 
> BTW: I am aware that there is an "install to hard drive" option when 
> the CD itself is booted. I'd
> rather not use that if I can avoid it; I rather like the 'it's a 
> fresh system every reboot' aspect of booting
> from the CD. I just want to do it without actually using the CDROM drive.
> 

Why not just copy the CONTENTS of the iso filesystem onto
a native filesystem (say, ext3) on a partition, and boot that?

You sound like someone who is says they want to get to the
top floor of a skyscraper and want to know what path to take
up the outside wall of a skyscraper, completely ignoring the
fact that there are staircases and elevators already in
place for precisely that purpose.

The solution is NOT to cram a square peg into a round hole.
use mkfs to create a filesystem on the partition, mount
the .iso file, and then boot that partition.

This is very simple.  The only thing difficult is your
insistence upon a really, REALLY sub-optimal choice of
configuration elements (i.e. using a .iso file as the
system to boot off of).  ISO's have a lot of limitations,
beyond the particular one you're facing at this point.


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 23 13:51:08 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 13:51:08 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Video and Movie making tools.
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90903202015h510556f0v23264b7b92da1816@mail.gmail.com>
References: <151880.21384.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903202242320.2985@banana.sluggo.net>
	<b02c40e90903202015h510556f0v23264b7b92da1816@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49C7CC0C.306@gmail.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 10:42 PM, Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net> wrote:
>> I use Emacs for video editing: http://1010.co.uk/gneve.html
>>
> 
> Wow.  I wouldn't be surprised if at some point integrated ext3/ext4
> filesystem support is developed for emacs so that it doesn't need a
> kernel anymore (just to reduce overhead).

emacs and "reduce overhead"

I never thought I would see "emacs" and "reduce overhead" in the same
sentance

[Back in the era of a-couple-of-megabyte" machines, emacs
was called "Eight megabytes always, continuously swapping."]


From z_mikowski at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 23 17:41:48 2009
From: z_mikowski at yahoo.com (Michael S. Mikowski)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 14:41:48 -0700
Subject: [mdlug] Booting CD images from a hard drive partition
In-Reply-To: <49C7A8D2.6000602@gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20090320194948.02c420d0@pop.gmail.com>
	<49C7A8D2.6000602@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200903231441.48501.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>

On Monday 23 March 2009 08:20:50 Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> Drew wrote:
> > I wish to set aside one or more partitions on the new hard drive for
> > holding a copy of
> > a Linux boot CD, such as Knoppix, PC-OS, or RIPLinux, to have a copy
> > ready to boot without needing to dig out the CD.
> > ...
> > BTW: I am aware that there is an "install to hard drive" option when
> > the CD itself is booted. I'd
> > rather not use that if I can avoid it; I rather like the 'it's a
> > fresh system every reboot' aspect of booting
> > from the CD. I just want to do it without actually using the CDROM drive.
>
> Why not just copy the CONTENTS of the iso filesystem onto
> a native filesystem (say, ext3) on a partition, and boot that?
>
> You sound like someone who is says they want to get to the
> top floor of a skyscraper and want to know what path to take
> up the outside wall of a skyscraper, completely ignoring the
> fact that there are staircases and elevators already in
> place for precisely that purpose.
>
> The solution is NOT to cram a square peg into a round hole.
> use mkfs to create a filesystem on the partition, mount
> the .iso file, and then boot that partition.
>
> This is very simple.  The only thing difficult is your
> insistence upon a really, REALLY sub-optimal choice of
> configuration elements (i.e. using a .iso file as the
> system to boot off of).  ISO's have a lot of limitations,
> beyond the particular one you're facing at this point.

It sounds to me like this should work.  In fact, this could be one way the 
developers test their live CD builds (the other, which I have used a few 
times, is to mount an iso image through a loopback device and use VMWare).

I think the key point is Drew wants the system to boot as if it is coming from 
the CD, e.g. use of a ramdisk instead of mounting file system, and all the 
other magic that occurs when the distro determines it is mounting off a 'live 
CD'.

The only problem I could see is if the copied iso contents start acting 
differently because on boot they recognize they are coming from a hard drive.  
But that seems unlikely.

Cheers, Mike






From micorral at comcast.net  Mon Mar 23 21:02:42 2009
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:02:42 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Video and Movie making tools.
In-Reply-To: <49C7CC0C.306@gmail.com>
References: <151880.21384.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903202242320.2985@banana.sluggo.net>
	<b02c40e90903202015h510556f0v23264b7b92da1816@mail.gmail.com>
	<49C7CC0C.306@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0903232058340.3747@banana.sluggo.net>

2009-03-23, Monsieur Aaron Kulkis a ecrit:
> Jeff Hanson wrote:
>> On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 10:42 PM, Michael Corral wrote:
>>> I use Emacs for video editing: http://1010.co.uk/gneve.html
>> Wow.  I wouldn't be surprised if at some point integrated ext3/ext4
>> filesystem support is developed for emacs so that it doesn't need a
>> kernel anymore (just to reduce overhead).
>
> [Back in the era of a-couple-of-megabyte" machines, emacs
> was called "Eight megabytes always, continuously swapping."]

It was "Eight megabytes and constantly swapping".
Get your anti-Emacs memes right! :)

By the way, that 8mb memory usage looks pretty good now.
In fact, Emacs actually uses less RAM then gedit these days. :)

Michael


From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Mon Mar 23 23:44:35 2009
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Robert Meier)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 23:44:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Eight Megabytes ... Swapping [Was: Re: Video and Movie
	making tools.]
In-Reply-To: <49C7CC0C.306@gmail.com> (message from Aaron Kulkis on Mon, 23
	Mar 2009 13:51:08 -0400)
References: <151880.21384.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903202242320.2985@banana.sluggo.net>
	<b02c40e90903202015h510556f0v23264b7b92da1816@mail.gmail.com>
	<49C7CC0C.306@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090324034435.96C4220AAEC@starfox.local>

Aaron, Michael,

>> Wow.  I wouldn't be surprised if at some point integrated ext3/ext4
>> filesystem support is developed for emacs so that it doesn't need a
>> kernel anymore (just to reduce overhead).

Will you settle for ext2 support statically linked,
and kernel used as a "boot loader" (to mount)?
http://www.informatimago.com/linux/emacs-on-user-mode-linux.html.

> emacs and "reduce overhead"
> I never thought I would see "emacs" and "reduce overhead"
> in the same sentance
> [Back in the era of a-couple-of-megabyte" machines,
> emacs was called "[Eight megabytes and constantly swapping]."]

See <version>/etc/JOKES in your favorite emacs for many more acronyms
bash> rpm -qf /usr/share/emacs/21.3/etc/JOKES
emacs-21.3-206
(Upon further request from those who haven't already installed emacs,
 I'll post an editted list on mdlug or mdlug-discuss.)

Many years ago at college, as a wheel (i.e. sysadmin) for Tamalpais,
a VAX 11/780, I received an order from above directing removal of emacs
as a resource hog from all campus computers.  I delayed[*]
and instrumented emacs and vi (i.e. wrapped in scripts that recorded
who used them, when and for how long).  After a month(quarter?) I
presented the findings, comparing students in the same class using
emacs and vi.  The system load and terminal time correlated well
with vi and emacs use.  IIRC, The emacs users raised system load
~50% higher than vi users.  The emacs users consumed about 1/3 the
terminal time.  Emacs users clearly consumed less overall resources,
than their vi counterparts.  Emacs was soon reinstalled where it
had been removed, and added to all new installations.

[*] Such delay was much easier then,
as disobedience based on professional judgement
carried no significant risk of unemployment,
whether events proved right or wrong.
Anyone then who fired a pilot because he judged it unsafe
to save time flying through rather than around a thunderstorm,
would risk unemployment.

Remembering,
-- 
Bob

  "And now here is my secret, a very simple secret;
   it is only with the heart that one can see rightly,
   what is essential is invisible to the eye."
     -- Antoine de Saint-Exupery




From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 24 17:45:28 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 17:45:28 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Video and Movie making tools.
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0903232058340.3747@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <151880.21384.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903202242320.2985@banana.sluggo.net>	<b02c40e90903202015h510556f0v23264b7b92da1816@mail.gmail.com>	<49C7CC0C.306@gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0903232058340.3747@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <49C95478.5000207@gmail.com>

Michael Corral wrote:
> 2009-03-23, Monsieur Aaron Kulkis a ecrit:
>> Jeff Hanson wrote:
>>> On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 10:42 PM, Michael Corral wrote:
>>>> I use Emacs for video editing: http://1010.co.uk/gneve.html
>>> Wow.  I wouldn't be surprised if at some point integrated ext3/ext4
>>> filesystem support is developed for emacs so that it doesn't need a
>>> kernel anymore (just to reduce overhead).
>> [Back in the era of a-couple-of-megabyte" machines, emacs
>> was called "Eight megabytes always, continuously swapping."]
> 
> It was "Eight megabytes and constantly swapping".
> Get your anti-Emacs memes right! :)
> 
> By the way, that 8mb memory usage looks pretty good now.
> In fact, Emacs actually uses less RAM then gedit these days. :)


akulkis@(none):~> which vi emacs
/usr/bin/vi
/usr/bin/emacs
akulkis@(none):~> ls -al /usr/bin/{vi,emacs}
-rwxr-xr-t 1 root root 8966472 2008-09-11 22:14 /usr/bin/emacs
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root       8 2009-03-15 04:50 /usr/bin/vi -> /bin/vim
akulkis@(none):~> ls -al /bin/vim /usr/bin/emacs
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root      21 2009-03-15 04:50 /bin/vim -> /etc/alternatives/vim
-rwxr-xr-t 1 root root 8966472 2008-09-11 22:14 /usr/bin/emacs
akulkis@(none):~> ls -al /etc/alternatives/vim /usr/bin/emacs
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root      21 2009-03-15 04:51 /etc/alternatives/vim -> /usr/bin/vim-enhanced
-rwxr-xr-t 1 root root 8966472 2008-09-11 22:14 /usr/bin/emacs
akulkis@(none):~> ls -al /usr/bin/vim-enhanced /usr/bin/emacs
-rwxr-xr-t 1 root root 8966472 2008-09-11 22:14 /usr/bin/emacs
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 2301169 2009-02-26 10:12 /usr/bin/vim-enhanced
akulkis@(none):~>
akulkis@(none):~> uname -a
Linux (none) 2.6.22.19-0.1-default #1 SMP 2008-10-14 22:17:43 +0200 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
akulkis@(none):~> file /usr/bin/vim-enhanced /usr/bin/emacs
/usr/bin/vim-enhanced: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.4, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not stripped
/usr/bin/emacs:        sticky ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.4, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped
akulkis@(none):~>

I wonder how big they are on 32-bit architecture.
  

I don't know if you remember an old line editor, called
ed (which seemed to have been closely related to "edit",
the line editor on IBM mainframes, as the basic commands
and syntax were identical).....


oh wow... scary.  Someone actually DID port ed to Linux.
akulkis@(none):~> which ed
/usr/bin/ed
akulkis@(none):~> ls -al /usr/bin/ed
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 7 2008-12-17 14:22 /usr/bin/ed -> /bin/ed
akulkis@(none):~> ls -al /bin/ed
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 56656 2007-09-21 15:12 /bin/ed
akulkis@(none):~>


I'm guessing that somewhere, someone wrote a shell-script
which used ed in a non-interactive manner, and it was
easier to recompile ed than to rewrite the shell
script to use ex (the line-editor personality of vi).


Heh... I love the shell prompt:
"Ed, Man!  "

Also, note the 1980's location of vi (like most apps
developed as part of the BSD project): /usr/ucb/bin/vi

http://www.geocities.com/kensanata/ed.html

From: patl at athena.mit.edu (Patrick J. LoPresti)
Message-ID: <1991Jul11.031731.9260 at athena.mit.edu>
Subject: The True Path (long)
Date: 11 Jul 91 03:17:31 GMT
Newsgroups: alt.religion.emacs,alt.slack
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

When I log into my Xenix system with my 110 baud teletype, both vi
*and* Emacs are just too damn slow.  They print useless messages like,
'C-h for help' and '"foo" File is read only'.  So I use the editor
that doesn't waste my VALUABLE time.

Ed, man!  !man ed

ED(1)               UNIX Programmer's Manual                ED(1)

NAME
     ed - text editor

SYNOPSIS
     ed [ - ] [ -x ] [ name ]
DESCRIPTION
     Ed is the standard text editor.
---

Computer Scientists love ed, not just because it comes first
alphabetically, but because it's the standard.  Everyone else loves ed
because it's ED!

"Ed is the standard text editor."

And ed doesn't waste space on my Timex Sinclair.  Just look:

-rwxr-xr-x  1 root          24 Oct 29  1929 /bin/ed
-rwxr-xr-t  4 root     1310720 Jan  1  1970 /usr/ucb/vi
-rwxr-xr-x  1 root  5.89824e37 Oct 22  1990 /usr/bin/emacs

Of course, on the system *I* administrate, vi is symlinked to ed.
Emacs has been replaced by a shell script which 1) Generates a syslog
message at level LOG_EMERG; 2) reduces the user's disk quota by 100K;
and 3) RUNS ED!!!!!!

"Ed is the standard text editor."

Let's look at a typical novice's session with the mighty ed:

golem> ed

?
help
?
?
?
quit
?
exit
?
bye
?
hello? 
?
eat flaming death
?
^C
?
^C
?
^D
?

---
Note the consistent user interface and error reportage.  Ed is
generous enough to flag errors, yet prudent enough not to overwhelm
the novice with verbosity.

"Ed is the standard text editor."

Ed, the greatest WYGIWYG editor of all.

ED IS THE TRUE PATH TO NIRVANA!  ED HAS BEEN THE CHOICE OF EDUCATED
AND IGNORANT ALIKE FOR CENTURIES!  ED WILL NOT CORRUPT YOUR PRECIOUS
BODILY FLUIDS!!  ED IS THE STANDARD TEXT EDITOR!  ED MAKES THE SUN
SHINE AND THE BIRDS SING AND THE GRASS GREEN!!

When I use an editor, I don't want eight extra KILOBYTES of worthless
help screens and cursor positioning code!  I just want an EDitor!!
Not a "viitor".  Not a "emacsitor".  Those aren't even WORDS!!!! ED!
ED! ED IS THE STANDARD!!!

TEXT EDITOR.

When IBM, in its ever-present omnipotence, needed to base their
"edlin" on a UNIX standard, did they mimic vi?  No.  Emacs?  Surely
you jest.  They chose the most karmic editor of all.  The standard.

Ed is for those who can *remember* what they are working on.  If you
are an idiot, you should use Emacs.  If you are an Emacs, you should
not be vi.  If you use ED, you are on THE PATH TO REDEMPTION.  THE
SO-CALLED "VISUAL" EDITORS HAVE BEEN PLACED HERE BY ED TO TEMPT THE
FAITHLESS.  DO NOT GIVE IN!!!  THE MIGHTY ED HAS SPOKEN!!!

?


From jbroughton at twmi.rr.com  Tue Mar 24 21:55:33 2009
From: jbroughton at twmi.rr.com (Jim Broughton)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:55:33 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Printing a lousy #$%^&* envelope.
Message-ID: <49C98F15.3030107@twmi.rr.com>

I have been a linux user for about 10 years. I have never tried
to print an envelope under Slackware Linux using KDE and Cups.
I may never try again. Total failure. I am quite angry.
 My printing system consists of a Brother 5150D postscript laser
printer accessed over the network via a netgear printserver.
 The printer has 1 tray for 8.5x11-14 paper and a fold out manual feed tray
for envelopes and the like. It never fails to print 8.5x11 documents some
even quite complex and duplexed as well.
  Try as I might I cannot get this system to print a lousy #10 commercial
envelope. I have used Openoffice 2.4, 3.0, Koffice writer, Adobe PDF reader
(after sending the output to a pdf from OOO or Koffice writer).  I have 
tried
printing it stright up with the selection for the printer set to #10 
envelope,
I have tried setting margins, rotating 360deg in 90deg incriments. Nothing.
The closest it came was Adobe PDF reader put something on the envelope but
whoever programmed the PDF converter for KDE and OOO did not force
embeded/outlined fonts so it just prints boxes where the letters should be.
This sucks. It should be a no brainer. Anyone else have problems with
printing envelopes under Linux?

Jim

 


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Mar 25 00:16:05 2009
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 00:16:05 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Printing a lousy #$%^&* envelope.
In-Reply-To: <49C98F15.3030107@twmi.rr.com>
References: <49C98F15.3030107@twmi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90903242116t36b45f4av88dd2bb7c7d0a705@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 9:55 PM, Jim Broughton <jbroughton at twmi.rr.com> wrote:
> I have been a linux user for about 10 years. I have never tried
> to print an envelope under Slackware Linux using KDE and Cups.
> I may never try again. Total failure. I am quite angry.

Haven't tried it myself.  I have used gLables to print self-adhesive
address labels using a CSV export from a Calc spreadsheet as input.


From driveray at ameritech.net  Wed Mar 25 04:48:49 2009
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 04:48:49 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Printing a lousy #$%^&* envelope.
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90903242116t36b45f4av88dd2bb7c7d0a705@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49C98F15.3030107@twmi.rr.com>
	<b02c40e90903242116t36b45f4av88dd2bb7c7d0a705@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49C9EFF1.5070206@ameritech.net>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 9:55 PM, Jim Broughton <jbroughton at twmi.rr.com> wrote:
>> I have been a linux user for about 10 years. I have never tried
>> to print an envelope under Slackware Linux using KDE and Cups.
>> I may never try again. Total failure. I am quite angry.
> 
> Haven't tried it myself.  I have used gLables to print self-adhesive
> address labels using a CSV export from a Calc spreadsheet as input.


I haven't tried either, but I think I would have tried printing it as a
simple word processor document, or more likely a spreadsheet. If I
understood you correctly you are trying to print *a* (single) envelope?
Also you are having no trouble using the fold out paper tray, perse?

It seems like, if you didn't mind sacrificing a few sheets of plain
paper, you could have gotten the text you wanted placed where you wanted
it, relative to the leading edge of the page, and then just run an
envelope instead of plain paper.

Failing that I think I would have printed the address on plain paper and
then cut it (with scissors) and pasted it (with paste) on the envelope.
Scotch tape and clear packing tape also do well for holding such
improvised labels in place.

This is still more work than it should be, but I think you would have
had your envelope in the end. But I feel your pain.

Ray


From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Wed Mar 25 03:26:27 2009
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Robert Meier)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 03:26:27 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Printing a lousy #$%^&* envelope
Message-ID: <200903250326.28318.list1c30fe42@bellsouth.net>

Jim, Jeff,

>> I have been a linux user for about 10 years. I have never tried
>> to print an envelope under Slackware Linux using KDE and Cups.
>> ... Anyone else have problems with printing envelopes under Linux?
> Haven't tried it myself.  I have used gLables to print self-adhesive
> address labels using a CSV export from a Calc spreadsheet as input.

Too lazy to write addresses on envelopes, I've been paying bills
with self-printed envelopes for years using SuSE.

I too use glabels, but most of my envelopes are still printed with
envelope-0.625.noarch.rpm , a perl program that writes a postscript program.  
(The lack of upgrade to 1.0.0 shows how solid it has been for me.)

>> The closest it came was Adobe PDF reader put something on the envelope
>> but  whoever programmed the PDF converter for KDE and OOO did not force
>> embeded/outlined fonts so it just prints boxes where the letters should be.

If you are using ghostscript for pdf converter, you may simply need to install
your X fonts in ghostscript.


"ghostscript and cups

Printer fonts are configured separately from X fonts.
A ghostscript file, Fontmap maps xfonts to postscript fonts.

bash> cat /usr/share/ghostscript/7.05/Fontmap
 ...
(Fontmap.local) .runlibfile
...
bash> cat /usr/share/ghostscript/7.05/Fontmap.local
...
/POSTNET (/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/local/POSTNET.ttf) ;
...

CUPS (Common Unix Printing System) usually calls ghostscript.
However most distros configure cups to use -dPARANOIDSAFER
to prohibit using anything (including fonts) not compiled into gs.
This must be changed to -dSAFER to add fonts.
bash> cat /usr/lib/cups/filter/pstoraster
...
gsopts ... -dSAFER ...
...
" 
   -- excerpt from "How to Install X Fonts"

# Configuration for my printer.
bash> cat ~/.enveloperc
# ~/.enveloperc

# This file is interpreted in PERL, so it is case sensitive
# lines beginning with a '#' and blank lines are ignored.
# All paper Attributes and Margin Units are in INCHES.


# ------------------------------- Paper Attributes
$normalpaper = 11       # Use your printer's page size here
$normalwidth = 8.5      # Printer's page width.
$ewidth = 9.5           # Envelope Width
$eheight = 5.125        # Envelope Height



# ------------------------------- Margins
# For printers that center the envelope on the feeder or put it all the way
# to the right, you will need to make the top margin larger.
# The $feedleft, $feedcenter, and $feedright variables should take care of
# this.  Just add the proper one to $topmargin.
$feedleft = 0
$feedright = $normalwidth - $eheight
$feedcenter = $normalwidth/2 - $eheight/2

$leftmargin = 0.35
$topmargin = 0.25



# ------------------------------- General Settings
$international=1# use international characters
$flipflop = 1   # print envelopes with flap on left
$shiplabel = 0  # print labels in a single column for easy shipping labels
$barcode = 1    # include POSTNET barcode for Zip or Zip+4?
$fromfile = ""  # file to load default return address from



# ------------------------------- Default Label Attributes
$line1 = "Times-Roman-Bold 12"  # Label font attributes, first line
$linex = "Times-Roman 12"       # Label font attributes, other lines


# ------------------------------- Default Return Address Attributes
$return1 = "Helvetica-Bold 10"  # same as above
$returnx = "Helvetica 10"       # same as above
$international = 1              # support international characters



# One of a collection of envelope descriptions:
bash> cat ~/etc/letters/envelope/MDLUG.envelope
[options]
$return1 = "Courier-Bold 10"
$returnx = "Courier 10"

[from]
  .~.   Metro Detroit Linux User's Group
  /V\\   c/o Robert Meier
 // \\\\  2.6 Torvald Ln.
/(   )\\ Rochester, MI  48307
 ^`~'^
[to]
Ann Arbor Science Fiction Association
c/o Stan Lee
19100 Computer Museum Rd.
Lapeer, MI  48446

# To print an envelope:
bash> envelope ~/etc/letters/envelope/MDLUG.envelope | lpr

-- 
Bob

  "Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it,
   and I shall move the world."
     -- Archimedes
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From gib at juno.com  Wed Mar 25 13:48:44 2009
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 17:48:44 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
Message-ID: <20090325.134844.4004.1@webmail19.vgs.untd.com>

 
The Compuware contract with Ford may be ending.  Many people are being taken off of the Ford account.  So, Ford will be bringing in replacements. 
____________________________________________________________
Click to get free auto insurance quotes from top companies.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/BLSrjnsHEaB93DecmLkZDgsuqWWTnlaR5LkUOFDdoIuCjEKrjwPMwxKdRM8/


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 26 01:01:54 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 01:01:54 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
In-Reply-To: <20090325.134844.4004.1@webmail19.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20090325.134844.4004.1@webmail19.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <49CB0C42.1030402@gmail.com>

gib at juno.com wrote:
>  
> The Compuware contract with Ford may be ending.  Many people are being taken off of the Ford account.  So, Ford will be bringing in replacements. 

Better not be from Wipro -- if so, all of Michigan
should be up in arms... literally.



From rkannan at peoplepc.com  Wed Mar 25 11:09:14 2009
From: rkannan at peoplepc.com (R. Kannan)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 11:09:14 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
Subject: [mdlug] Printing a lousy #$%^&* envelope.
Message-ID: <20900243.1237993755356.JavaMail.root@elwamui-huard.atl.sa.earthlink.net>


I have been able to print envelopes from Open Office to a HP Deskjet HP610C fine. I am only printing one envelope at a time if that makes a difference.
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jim Broughton <jbroughton at twmi.rr.com>
>Sent: Mar 24, 2009 9:55 PM
>To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>Subject: [mdlug] Printing a lousy #$%^&* envelope.
>
>I have been a linux user for about 10 years. I have never tried
>to print an envelope under Slackware Linux using KDE and Cups.
>I may never try again. Total failure. I am quite angry.
> My printing system consists of a Brother 5150D postscript laser
>printer accessed over the network via a netgear printserver.
> The printer has 1 tray for 8.5x11-14 paper and a fold out manual feed tray
>for envelopes and the like. It never fails to print 8.5x11 documents some
>even quite complex and duplexed as well.
>  Try as I might I cannot get this system to print a lousy #10 commercial
>envelope. I have used Openoffice 2.4, 3.0, Koffice writer, Adobe PDF reader
>(after sending the output to a pdf from OOO or Koffice writer).  I have 
>tried
>printing it stright up with the selection for the printer set to #10 
>envelope,
>I have tried setting margins, rotating 360deg in 90deg incriments. Nothing.
>The closest it came was Adobe PDF reader put something on the envelope but
>whoever programmed the PDF converter for KDE and OOO did not force
>embeded/outlined fonts so it just prints boxes where the letters should be.
>This sucks. It should be a no brainer. Anyone else have problems with
>printing envelopes under Linux?
>
>Jim
>
> 
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com


From micorral at comcast.net  Thu Mar 26 02:05:01 2009
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 02:05:01 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Printing a lousy #$%^&* envelope.
In-Reply-To: <49C98F15.3030107@twmi.rr.com>
References: <49C98F15.3030107@twmi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0903260202390.8320@banana.sluggo.net>

2009-03-24, Monsieur Jim Broughton a ecrit:
> My printing system consists of a Brother 5150D postscript laser
> printer accessed over the network via a netgear printserver.
> The printer has 1 tray for 8.5x11-14 paper and a fold out manual feed tray
> for envelopes and the like. It never fails to print 8.5x11 documents some
> even quite complex and duplexed as well.
[snip]
> This sucks. It should be a no brainer. Anyone else have problems with
> printing envelopes under Linux?

No problem here. I can print envelopes just fine in Fedora.
Here's a pic of how I printed a standard (C10) business envelope just
now, in StarOffice:
http://home.comcast.net/~micorral/envelope.png

In the Properties dialog, in the Device tab I set Manual Feed to True.
I started the whole thing by going to
File->New->Templates and Documents->Templates->Personal Correspondence
and Documents->Envelope.
For OpenOffice there should be something similar.

For my printer (HP Laserjet 4plus, via JetDirect), I have to push a bit
on the edge of the envelope to make sure the manual feeder grabs it. It
prints perfectly.

Michael


From z_mikowski at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 26 02:17:54 2009
From: z_mikowski at yahoo.com (Michael S. Mikowski)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 23:17:54 -0700
Subject: [mdlug] Printing a lousy #$%^&* envelope.
In-Reply-To: <49C98F15.3030107@twmi.rr.com>
References: <49C98F15.3030107@twmi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <200903252317.54550.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>

Ran into this today with my wife, who was getting frustrated.

She was trying to create an envelope use the 'insert envelope' option in 
writer.  This proved buggy.  This on an hp6310, which has excellent support in 
Linux (which is why I bought it!)

Here is what worked for OOo 2.4.  YMMV:
0. Skip 'insert envelope'.  Simply create a new document.

1. Pick format->page->page tab and under Format pick Env. #10, choose 
Landscape orientation.

2. Fill in your envelope

3. Print envelope.  In the printing dialog, click on 'Properties', and:
x paper size should show Env. #10
x leave orientation as protrait
x leave duplex as off
! On Paper Tray, pick envelope feeder.

Press ok and print.  Hopefully this will work for you!

Cheers, Mike





On Tuesday 24 March 2009 18:55:33 Jim Broughton wrote:
> l failure. I am quite angry.
>  My printing system consists of a Brother 5150D postscript laser
> printer accessed over the network via a netgear printserver.
>  The printer has 1 tray for 8.5x11-14 paper and a fold out manual feed tray
> for envelopes and the like. It never fails to print 8.5x11 documents some
> even quite complex and duplexed as well.
>   Try as I might I cannot get this system to print a lousy #10 commercial
> envelope. I have used Openoffice 2.4, 3.0, Koffice writer, Adobe PDF reader
> (after sending the output to a pdf from OOO or Koffice writer).  I have
> tried
> printing it stright up with the selection for the printer set to #10
> envelope,
> I have tried setting margins, rotating 360deg in 90deg incriments. Nothing.
> The closest it came was Adobe PDF reader put something on the envelope but
> whoever programmed the PDF converter for KDE and OOO did not force
> embeded/outlined fonts so it just prints boxes where the letters should be.
> This sucks. It should be a no brainer. Anyone else have problems with
> printing envelopes under Linux?
>
> Jim



From peter at petertheplumber.net  Thu Mar 26 03:23:05 2009
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 03:23:05 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Printing a lousy #$%^&* envelope.
In-Reply-To: <200903252317.54550.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>
References: <49C98F15.3030107@twmi.rr.com>
	<200903252317.54550.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1238052185.26042.291.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

On Wed, 2009-03-25 at 23:17 -0700, Michael S. Mikowski wrote:
> Ran into this today with my wife, who was getting frustrated.
> 
> She was trying to create an envelope use the 'insert envelope' option in 
> writer.  This proved buggy.  This on an hp6310, which has excellent support in 
> Linux (which is why I bought it!)

	I'm not so sure it's the fault of the printer. I have a Brother HL404cn
and it took me a few minutes using OO 3.0.1. It's never been easy.


> 
> Here is what worked for OOo 2.4.  YMMV:
> 0. Skip 'insert envelope'.  Simply create a new document.
> 
> 1. Pick format->page->page tab and under Format pick Env. #10, choose 
> Landscape orientation.
> 
> 2. Fill in your envelope
> 
> 3. Print envelope.  In the printing dialog, click on 'Properties', and:
> x paper size should show Env. #10
> x leave orientation as protrait
> x leave duplex as off
> ! On Paper Tray, pick envelope feeder.
> 

	Interesting, if I do that then the text goes the wrong way on the
envelope.


> On Tuesday 24 March 2009 18:55:33 Jim Broughton wrote:
> > l failure. I am quite angry.
> >  My printing system consists of a Brother 5150D postscript laser
> > printer accessed over the network via a netgear printserver.
> >  The printer has 1 tray for 8.5x11-14 paper and a fold out manual feed tray
> > for envelopes and the like. It never fails to print 8.5x11 documents some
> > even quite complex and duplexed as well.
> >   Try as I might I cannot get this system to print a lousy #10 commercial
> > envelope. I have used Openoffice 2.4, 3.0, Koffice writer, Adobe PDF reader
> > (after sending the output to a pdf from OOO or Koffice writer).  I have
> > tried
> > printing it stright up with the selection for the printer set to #10
> > envelope,
> > I have tried setting margins, rotating 360deg in 90deg incriments. Nothing.
> > The closest it came was Adobe PDF reader put something on the envelope but
> > whoever programmed the PDF converter for KDE and OOO did not force
> > embeded/outlined fonts so it just prints boxes where the letters should be.
> > This sucks. It should be a no brainer. Anyone else have problems with
> > printing envelopes under Linux?
> >

	I do so feel your pain. It's just one of those things. Here's what I
did. Bear in mind I'm also using a Brother with a fold out paper tray,
when the guides are adjusted the envelope sits in the middle. The side
to be printed is up and the flap is to the left. <Insert> <Envelope>,
under the format tab Addressee position from left set to 4.28" and from
top 2.08". Sender position from left set to 0.39" and from top 0.39".
Size format is Env. 10 which should be 9.50" x 4.13". Under the printer
tab, envelope orientation it shows me several different pictograms. I
use the one showing the envelope feeding with the short edge, and to the
far right of the ?tray?. Yes I know mine feeds in the middle. I select
print from bottom and shift right 1.50" and shift down 2.00". All those
settings appear to be saved so you shouldn't have to enter them again.
Just click insert envelope; fill in sender and recipient; and you're
there.

<soapbox warning>
	Do I feel that I should be able to select a No 10 envelope, how I feed
my envelope and be done. Certainly! But I don't know what has to go on
behind the scenes for that to happen. I just had the pleasure of setting
up; hopefully correctly; a dual boot XP/Linux notebook. XP did not
recognize anything, including the sata hard drive and the Realtek
ethernet adapter. I'd much rather spend my time formatting an envelope
than loading drivers! 

Best Regards,
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
Peter The Plumber



From z_mikowski at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 26 04:15:46 2009
From: z_mikowski at yahoo.com (Michael S. Mikowski)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 01:15:46 -0700
Subject: [mdlug] Printing a lousy #$%^&* envelope.
In-Reply-To: <1238052185.26042.291.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
References: <49C98F15.3030107@twmi.rr.com>
	<200903252317.54550.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>
	<1238052185.26042.291.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <200903260115.46881.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>

On Thursday 26 March 2009 00:23:05 Peter Bart wrote:
> On Wed, 2009-03-25 at 23:17 -0700, Michael S. Mikowski wrote:
> > Ran into this today with my wife, who was getting frustrated.
> >
> > She was trying to create an envelope use the 'insert envelope' option in
> > writer.  This proved buggy.  This on an hp6310, which has excellent
> > support in Linux (which is why I bought it!)

> 	I'm not so sure it's the fault of the printer. I have a Brother HL404cn
> and it took me a few minutes using OO 3.0.1. It's never been easy.

Agreed.

> > Here is what worked for OOo 2.4.  YMMV:
> > 0. Skip 'insert envelope'.  Simply create a new document.
> >
> > 1. Pick format->page->page tab and under Format pick Env. #10, choose
> > Landscape orientation.
> >
> > 2. Fill in your envelope
> >
> > 3. Print envelope.  In the printing dialog, click on 'Properties', and:
> > x paper size should show Env. #10
> > x leave orientation as protrait
> > x leave duplex as off
> > ! On Paper Tray, pick envelope feeder.
>
> 	Interesting, if I do that then the text goes the wrong way on the
> envelope.

That is what my wife was seeing too, assuming you mean 90 degrees off.  Perhaps 
in OOo3.01 one might need to change the orientation on the print dialog.  But 
leaving it in portrait mode is what worked in OOo2.4. 

Cheers, Mike


From radkins at impelind.com  Thu Mar 26 09:07:02 2009
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:07:02 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
In-Reply-To: <49CB0C42.1030402@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090326133348.C3DFDC0D3@impelind.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Kulkis
> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 1:02 AM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
> 
> gib at juno.com wrote:
> >  
> > The Compuware contract with Ford may be ending.  Many 
> people are being taken off of the Ford account.  So, Ford 
> will be bringing in replacements. 
> 
> Better not be from Wipro -- if so, all of Michigan should be 
> up in arms... literally.
> 

  This could be opening up a can of worms, but why?

  I do not know anything of this Wipro you speak of.

	-Rob



From micorral at comcast.net  Wed Mar 25 01:19:33 2009
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 01:19:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Printing a lousy #$%^&* envelope.
In-Reply-To: <49C98F15.3030107@twmi.rr.com>
References: <49C98F15.3030107@twmi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0903250101230.5778@banana.sluggo.net>

2009-03-24, Monsieur Jim Broughton a ecrit:
> My printing system consists of a Brother 5150D postscript laser
> printer accessed over the network via a netgear printserver.
> The printer has 1 tray for 8.5x11-14 paper and a fold out manual feed tray
> for envelopes and the like. It never fails to print 8.5x11 documents some
> even quite complex and duplexed as well.
[snip]
> This sucks. It should be a no brainer. Anyone else have problems with
> printing envelopes under Linux?

No problem here. I can print envelopes just fine in Fedora.
Here's a pic of how I printed a standard (C10) business envelope just
now, in StarOffice:
http://home.comcast.net/~micorral/envelope.png

In the Properties dialog, in the Device tab I set Manual Feed to True.
I started the whole thing by going to
File->New->Templates and Documents->Templates->Personal Correspondence
and Documents->Envelope.
For OpenOffice there should be something similar.

For my printer (HP Laserjet 4plus, via JetDirect), I have to push a bit
on the edge of the envelope to make sure the manual feeder grabs it. It
prints perfectly.

Michael


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Thu Mar 26 11:04:08 2009
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:04:08 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Printing a lousy #$%^&* envelope.
In-Reply-To: <200903260115.46881.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>
References: <49C98F15.3030107@twmi.rr.com>
	<200903252317.54550.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>
	<1238052185.26042.291.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
	<200903260115.46881.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1238079848.26042.304.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

On Thu, 2009-03-26 at 01:15 -0700, Michael S. Mikowski wrote:
> On Thursday 26 March 2009 00:23:05 Peter Bart wrote:
> > On Wed, 2009-03-25 at 23:17 -0700, Michael S. Mikowski wrote:
> > > Ran into this today with my wife, who was getting frustrated.
> > >
> > > She was trying to create an envelope use the 'insert envelope' option in
> > > writer.  
> 
> > > Here is what worked for OOo 2.4.  YMMV:
> > > 0. Skip 'insert envelope'.  Simply create a new document.
> > >
> > > 1. Pick format->page->page tab and under Format pick Env. #10, choose
> > > Landscape orientation.
> > >
> > > 2. Fill in your envelope
> > >
> > > 3. Print envelope.  In the printing dialog, click on 'Properties', and:
> > > x paper size should show Env. #10
> > > x leave orientation as protrait
> > > x leave duplex as off
> > > ! On Paper Tray, pick envelope feeder.
> >
> > 	Interesting, if I do that then the text goes the wrong way on the
> > envelope.
> 
> That is what my wife was seeing too, assuming you mean 90 degrees off.  Perhaps 
> in OOo3.01 one might need to change the orientation on the print dialog.  But 
> leaving it in portrait mode is what worked in OOo2.4. 

	Yes, 90 deg off. If I change it to landscape, then I can't feed my
envelope. Hmmm, I know I should be able to but it's not working for me
this way. Regardless; once I had it set up to print using <Insert>
<Envelope>; OO places the sender and recipient fields automatically. The
data stays from the last time I used it, so I don't have to fill in my
information. It did take me seven envelopes, the same or more pieces of
scrap paper and about an hour though.

Best Regards,
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
Peter The Plumber



From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 26 11:10:33 2009
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 08:10:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Printing a lousy #$%^&* envelope.
In-Reply-To: <1238079848.26042.304.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
References: <49C98F15.3030107@twmi.rr.com>
	<200903252317.54550.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>
	<1238052185.26042.291.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
	<200903260115.46881.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>
	<1238079848.26042.304.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <83404.80877.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

When printing in OO I normally do a blank test sheet on plain paper.? That will let me know how things will turn out.

David C. Lane 



________________________________
From: Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
To: MDLUG Main List <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 11:04:08 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Printing a lousy #$%^&* envelope.

On Thu, 2009-03-26 at 01:15 -0700, Michael S. Mikowski wrote:
> On Thursday 26 March 2009 00:23:05 Peter Bart wrote:
> > On Wed, 2009-03-25 at 23:17 -0700, Michael S. Mikowski wrote:
> > > Ran into this today with my wife, who was getting frustrated.
> > >
> > > She was trying to create an envelope use the 'insert envelope' option in
> > > writer.? 
> 
> > > Here is what worked for OOo 2.4.? YMMV:
> > > 0. Skip 'insert envelope'.? Simply create a new document.
> > >
> > > 1. Pick format->page->page tab and under Format pick Env. #10, choose
> > > Landscape orientation.
> > >
> > > 2. Fill in your envelope
> > >
> > > 3. Print envelope.? In the printing dialog, click on 'Properties', and:
> > > x paper size should show Env. #10
> > > x leave orientation as protrait
> > > x leave duplex as off
> > > ! On Paper Tray, pick envelope feeder.
> >
> > ??? Interesting, if I do that then the text goes the wrong way on the
> > envelope.
> 
> That is what my wife was seeing too, assuming you mean 90 degrees off.? Perhaps 
> in OOo3.01 one might need to change the orientation on the print dialog.? But 
> leaving it in portrait mode is what worked in OOo2.4. 

??? Yes, 90 deg off. If I change it to landscape, then I can't feed my
envelope. Hmmm, I know I should be able to but it's not working for me
this way. Regardless; once I had it set up to print using <Insert>
<Envelope>; OO places the sender and recipient fields automatically. The
data stays from the last time I used it, so I don't have to fill in my
information. It did take me seven envelopes, the same or more pieces of
scrap paper and about an hour though.

Best Regards,
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
Peter The Plumber

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Thu Mar 26 11:14:50 2009
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:14:50 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
In-Reply-To: <20090326133348.C3DFDC0D3@impelind.com>
References: <20090326133348.C3DFDC0D3@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <1238080490.26042.310.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

On Thu, 2009-03-26 at 09:07 -0400, Robert Adkins wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> > [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Kulkis
> > Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 1:02 AM
> > To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> > Subject: Re: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
> > 
> > gib at juno.com wrote:
> > >  
> > > The Compuware contract with Ford may be ending.  Many 
> > people are being taken off of the Ford account.  So, Ford 
> > will be bringing in replacements. 
> > 
> > Better not be from Wipro -- if so, all of Michigan should be 
> > up in arms... literally.
> > 
> 
>   This could be opening up a can of worms, but why?
> 
>   I do not know anything of this Wipro you speak of.

	I'm guessing because it's a very large Indian owned company. Having
just spent way to much time on the phone to India sorting out an ATT dsl
outage, I would agree.

Best Regards
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
Peter The Plumber



From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 26 11:23:49 2009
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 08:23:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
In-Reply-To: <1238080490.26042.310.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
References: <20090326133348.C3DFDC0D3@impelind.com>
	<1238080490.26042.310.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <299598.70007.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I have to share that there are IT opening in Colleges and Universities, I 
Have been working in education for years.? 

I know there is a stigma that Education Admin tech is not cutting edge,
Yes but I have been employed during the hard time.? 

David C. Lane





________________________________
From: Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 11:14:50 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available

On Thu, 2009-03-26 at 09:07 -0400, Robert Adkins wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> > [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Kulkis
> > Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 1:02 AM
> > To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> > Subject: Re: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
> > 
> > gib at juno.com wrote:
> > >? 
> > > The Compuware contract with Ford may be ending.? Many 
> > people are being taken off of the Ford account.? So, Ford 
> > will be bringing in replacements. 
> > 
> > Better not be from Wipro -- if so, all of Michigan should be 
> > up in arms... literally.
> > 
> 
>? This could be opening up a can of worms, but why?
> 
>? I do not know anything of this Wipro you speak of.

??? I'm guessing because it's a very large Indian owned company. Having
just spent way to much time on the phone to India sorting out an ATT dsl
outage, I would agree.

Best Regards
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
Peter The Plumber

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Thu Mar 26 11:36:11 2009
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:36:11 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
In-Reply-To: <299598.70007.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20090326133348.C3DFDC0D3@impelind.com>
	<1238080490.26042.310.camel@plumber-notebook.site>
	<299598.70007.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1238081771.26042.323.camel@plumber-notebook.site>

On Thu, 2009-03-26 at 08:23 -0700, David Lane wrote:
> I have to share that there are IT opening in Colleges and
> Universities, I 
> Have been working in education for years.  
>  
> I know there is a stigma that Education Admin tech is not cutting
> edge,
> Yes but I have been employed during the hard time.  
>  
> 
	It's better than some other stigmas you could have ;) Having an income
stream here and now would be a good thing. 

Best Regards,

-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
Peter The Plumber



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 26 12:16:11 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 12:16:11 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
In-Reply-To: <20090326133348.C3DFDC0D3@impelind.com>
References: <20090326133348.C3DFDC0D3@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <49CBAA4B.8080508@gmail.com>

Robert Adkins wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
>> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Kulkis
>> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 1:02 AM
>> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
>> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
>>
>> gib at juno.com wrote:
>>>  
>>> The Compuware contract with Ford may be ending.  Many 
>> people are being taken off of the Ford account.  So, Ford 
>> will be bringing in replacements. 
>>
>> Better not be from Wipro -- if so, all of Michigan should be 
>> up in arms... literally.
>>
> 
>   This could be opening up a can of worms, but why?
> 
>   I do not know anything of this Wipro you speak of.

You've heard stories of people being told that they're
going to be layed off, and that their separation benefits
are dependent upon training their replacements from India?

In almost all cases, that's Wipro.  They are the number
one abuser of the H1-B visa program.

About 10 years ago, when I first heard that the H1-B program
was being abused, I didn't believe it...but then I started
seeing more and more evidence that supports the accusation.
It's being used to displace American IT workers, not
supplement, which is the purpose of the program.




From radkins at impelind.com  Thu Mar 26 12:13:47 2009
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 12:13:47 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
In-Reply-To: <49CBAA4B.8080508@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090326164034.38917C0D3@impelind.com>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Kulkis
> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 12:16 PM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
> 
> Robert Adkins wrote:
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org
> >> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Kulkis
> >> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 1:02 AM
> >> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> >> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
> >>
> >> gib at juno.com wrote:
> >>>  
> >>> The Compuware contract with Ford may be ending.  Many
> >> people are being taken off of the Ford account.  So, Ford will be 
> >> bringing in replacements.
> >>
> >> Better not be from Wipro -- if so, all of Michigan should be up in 
> >> arms... literally.
> >>
> > 
> >   This could be opening up a can of worms, but why?
> > 
> >   I do not know anything of this Wipro you speak of.
> 
> You've heard stories of people being told that they're going 
> to be layed off, and that their separation benefits are 
> dependent upon training their replacements from India?
> 
> In almost all cases, that's Wipro.  They are the number one 
> abuser of the H1-B visa program.
> 
> About 10 years ago, when I first heard that the H1-B program 
> was being abused, I didn't believe it...but then I started 
> seeing more and more evidence that supports the accusation.
> It's being used to displace American IT workers, not 
> supplement, which is the purpose of the program.
> 

  Thank you. To talk more of this would be sliding deep into politics and
this is not the place to do that.

  -Rob



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 26 13:41:28 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 13:41:28 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
In-Reply-To: <20090326133348.C3DFDC0D3@impelind.com>
References: <20090326133348.C3DFDC0D3@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <49CBBE48.4010006@gmail.com>

Robert Adkins wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
>> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Kulkis
>> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 1:02 AM
>> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
>> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
>>
>> gib at juno.com wrote:
>>>  
>>> The Compuware contract with Ford may be ending.  Many 
>> people are being taken off of the Ford account.  So, Ford 
>> will be bringing in replacements. 
>>
>> Better not be from Wipro -- if so, all of Michigan should be 
>> up in arms... literally.
>>
> 
>   This could be opening up a can of worms, but why?
> 
>   I do not know anything of this Wipro you speak of.

You've heard stories of people being told that they're
going to be layed off, and that their separation benefits
are dependent upon training their replacements from India?

In almost all cases, that's Wipro or a similar company.
They are the number one abuser of the H1-B visa program,
using it to displace citizens, which is in contradiction
with U.S. law.

About 10 years ago, when I first heard that the H1-B program
was being abused, I didn't believe it...but then I started
seeing more and more evidence that supports the accusation.
It's being used to displace American IT workers, not
supplement, which is the purpose of the program.


Watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU

	Immigration attorneys from Cohen & Grigsby explains how
	they assist employers in running classified ads with the
	goal of NOT finding any qualified applicants, and the
	steps they go through to disqualify even the most
	qualified Americans in order to secure green cards for
	H-1b workers. See what Bush and Congress really mean by a
	"shortage of skilled U.S. workers." Microsoft, Oracle,
	Hewlett-Packard, and thousands of other companies are
	running fake ads in Sunday newspapers across the country
	each week.

	[This was originally put up by the law firm advocating
	this illegal (fraud) tactic themselves]

	Lawrence M. Lebowitz, VP of Marketing - Cohen & Grigsby
	giving a presentation on how to specifically AVOID getting
	any annoying job Applications by U.S. citizens so as to
	(fraudulently -- by conducting an employee search in bad
	faith) justify applying for H1-B slots.


Recently, an economic official in the Indian government
made a statement that they consider cramming as many
of their own citizens into our H1-B program to be an
essential part of the Indian government's long term
economic plan (for one, they are bringing back a large
body of knowledge of both business practices AND also
every project outsourced to India becomes one in which
the Indian engineers gain enough knowledge about it to
take off and replicate the project themselves -- Motorola
recently (and STUPIDLY, I might add)  got burned doing
this.  Idiot managers trying to save a few $, or inflate
the headcount of subordinates on their resumes)


ICE crackdowns are starting  (finally after 10 years!)

www.ice.gov/pi/nr/0902/090212desmoines.htm

	The H-1B Fraud Rate: Over 20%, Says USCIS
	For those just joining us, the H-1B program is
	a provision in U.S. immigration law which brings
	65,000 educated workers (mostly tech guys from
	India) to the U.S. each year, with regulatory
	restrictions in place to ensure:

	1. H-1Bs can only be hired for jobs where 'no
	qualified American can be found' and
	2. H-1Bs must be paid market rates so as not
	to depress tech salaries.

	Critics argue neither provision ever gets enforced,
	and in practice H-1Bs compete directly against
	American citizens at cut-rate prices, making life
	miserable for IT workers.

        [SMOKING GUN HERE:]
	The issue leaped back into the spotlight when Senator
	Chuck Grassley (R-IA) called Microsoft (MSFT) on the
	carpet for advocating for an expansion of the H-1B
	program mere weeks before beginning thousands of
	company-wide layoffs.

	[Here we are in the midst of a recession, in which
	IT talent has around a 10% unemployment rate, and
	this year's H1-B allotment was, as usual, consumed
	in ONE DAY].



Fortunately, enforcement is starting to take place:


Federal government started doing investigations about 2
years ago; arrests are starting to take place:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/bw/20090311/bs_bw/mar2009db20090310197597
	[excerpt]

	Part of that growth includes the U.S. headquarters of
	Pacific West, an IT consulting firm that employs both
	U.S. and H-1B visa workers from overseas. It is
	there, in a nondescript six-story office building at
	2600 Aurora Ave., that dozens of skilled workers,
	mostly from India, were supposed to be working in
	2004 and 2005.

	But according to a federal lawsuit filed on Dec. 16 in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Iowa, some of those who came to work for Pacific West didn't get to enjoy the town's charms, or the computer programing or engineering jobs they expected to fill. A federal grand jury charges that in fact many of the workers wound up on the East and West coasts, working for companies that had nothing to do with technology.

	Coordinated Federal Investigation

	Two Pacific West executives, Vishnu Reddy and Chockalingam Palaniappan -- also referred to as "Chuck Pal" in court documents -- are charged with filing false documents with the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services and U.S. Labor Dept. to take advantage of the lower wage requirements in Iowa.

	Critics of the worker-visa system have long claimed
	it is gamed by companies to replace skilled U.S.
	workers with lower-paid foreigners. But the
	allegations against executives at Pacific West -- as
	well as those at four other companies under
	investigation -- reveal the mechanics of a specific
	scheme that allegedly allowed employers to
	fraudulently cheat H-1B visa workers of their proper
	wage rates. Lawsuits have been brought against
	individual companies for H-1B visa fraud in the past,
	but allegations against Pacific West and other
	Iowa-based companies point to what may have become a
	common scheme to underpay H-1B visa workers by
	misrepresenting their geographic work location.

	[Translation: Violating the relavent immigration law,
	they were paying the H1-B workers BELOW the 50th
	percentile/prevailing wage rate -- which means that
	they weren't brought in for any specific skill, but
	just so management could reduce payroll costs].

	Details of this alleged fraud emerged as the U.S.
	Attorney for the Southern District of Iowa announced
	the arrest of 13 people in six states connected with
	five IT services companies, and the indictment of one
	company, Vision Systems Group, following a
	coordinated federal investigation. Vision Systems
	Group was ordered to forfeit $7.4 million that it
	allegedly obtained through fraudulent means. Three
	other technology companies -- Worldwide Software
	Services and Sana Systems, both based in Clinton,
	Iowa; and Venurisoft of Clive, Iowa -- remain under
	investigation for document fraud, prosecutors said.
	Vision Systems Group, Worldwide Software Services,
	and Sana Systems did not return phone calls and
	e-mail messages seeking comment.



www.ice.gov/pi/nr/0902/090212desmoines.htm

(excerpt below)

	Federal authorities, with assistance from state
	and local law 	enforcement, served search
	warrants at addresses in Urbandale and Clive,
	Iowa; in Santa Clara, Rancho Cucamonga and
	Arcadia, Calif.; and in South Plainfield, N.J.

	This investigation involves companies that sponsor
	primarily H-1B non-immigrants, or temporary workers
	in specialty occupations that require a particular
	expertise. The companies that are the subject of
	this investigation have asserted that the foreign
	workers have been brought to the U.S. to fill
	existing vacancies. However, the companies allegedly
	have not always had jobs available for these workers,
	thereby placing them in non-pay status after they
	arrive in the United States. In some cases, the
	foreign workers have allegedly been placed in jobs
	and locations not previously certified by the
	Department of Labor, displacing qualified American
	workers and violating prevailing wage laws.

	The companies and foreign workers have allegedly
	submitted false statements and documents in support
	of their visa petitions. The false statements and
	documents were mailed or wired to state and federal
	agencies in support of the visa applications. The
	companies are suspected of visa fraud, mail fraud,
	wire fraud, money laundering and conspiracy.

	"The foreign labor certification programs are
	designed to permit U.S. employers to hire foreign
	workers to fill jobs essential to American
	businesses," said Daniel R. Petrole, deputy
	inspector general, U.S. Department of Labor.
	"Our agency remains resolute in its commitment
	with its law enforcement partners to investigate
	fraud committed against these Department of Labor
	programs."

	U.S. businesses use the H-1B program to employ
	foreign workers in specialty occupations that
	require theoretical or technical expertise in
	specialized fields, such as scientists, engineers,
	or computer programmers. As part of the H-1B
	program, the Department of Homeland Security (DHS)
	and the Department of Labor (DOL) require U.S.
	employers to meet specific labor conditions to
	ensure that American workers are not adversely
	impacted, while the DOL's Wage and Hour Division
	safeguards the treatment and compensation of H-1B
	workers. Congress sets a numerical cap for the
	admission of skilled workers into the U.S. The
	current H-1B cap is set at 65,000 visas per
	fiscal year. H-1B aliens can work in the United
	States for three years, with an option for an
	additional three years (for a maximum of six years).

	Those arrested Wednesday by ICE agents include:

	1. Shiva Neeli, arrested in Boston, Mass.;
		charged with conspiracy and mail fraud.
	2. Ramakrishna Maguluri, arrested in Atlanta, Ga.;
		charged with conspiracy and mail fraud.
	3. Villiappan Subbaiah, arrested in Dallas, Texas;
		charged with conspiracy and mail fraud.
	4. Suresh Pola, arrested in Pennsylvania;
		charged with conspiracy and mail fraud.
	5. Vishnu Reddy, arrested in Los Angeles, Calif.;
		charged with conspiracy, mail fraud and
		wire fraud.
	6. Chockalingam Palaniappan, arrested in San Jose,
		Calif.; charged with conspiracy, mail fraud
		and wire fraud.
	7. Vijay Myneni, arrested in San Jose, Calif.;
		charged with conspiracy and mail fraud.
	8. Venkata Guduru, arrested in New Jersey;
		charged with conspiracy and mail fraud.
	9. Praveen Andapally, arrested in New Jersey;
		charged with conspiracy, mail fraud,
		wire fraud, and making false statements
		in an immigration matter.
	10. Amit Justa, arrested in New Jersey; charged
		with conspiracy and mail fraud.
	11. Karambir Yadav, arrested in Louisville, Ky.;
		charged with conspiracy and mail fraud.

Other cases


http://www.happyschoolsblog.com/7-arrested-h1b-visa-fraud/

http://www.clintonherald.com/homepage/local_story_043100615.html?keyword=leadpicturestory

http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=24114

Newjersey followed by Mass now - few more people arrested for immigration fraud
Federal, state and local authorities are tightening the noose on H1-B fraud schemes in the United States, where the Customs and Immigration Service claims 1 in 5 H1-B visas are obtained under false pretenses. New Jersey and Massachusetts are the most recent focus of H1-B fraud scams.


http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Government-...SM03032009STR3

In the scheme, four men were charged Dec. 4 with producing
documents falsely stating that H1-B visa applicants had a
job with the Commonwealth when, in fact, they did not.
Richard Schwartz, a now former Massachusetts' employee,
signed the documents and is charged with one count of
visa fraud, which brings penalties of up to five years
in prison time and a $250,000 fine.

Sridhar Reddy, Sudha Rani and Venkat Naidu are also charged
with one count of visa fraud. Reddy and Rani face additional
charges of visa fraud totalling up to 15 years of prison. 



----
Some additional ideas on how to make this program almost or 100% fraud free. All H1B/L1B applicants will have to clear exams like TOEFL/GRE/GMAT/SAT or something on their lines and score above a certain number. Only then will they get a visa. Of course, it goes along with other stringent measures proposed like proof of a "genuine" job et al. To avoid fraud, the exams should be conducted like they are with an F1 so no one can game the system by having someone else appear for the exam. This way the pseudo-IT frauds (like the ones who did NIIT after BA/BSc) will be vetted and thrown out in the application stage itself. I am not being arrogant here but I'm also tired of being categorized with these people inspite of having a Computer Engineering degree (4-YEAR) from a reputed college.

I myself have appeared for one of these exams and scored well. So I am not scared of these, neither should be the genuine candidates. What say?

---

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/03/fbi-arrests-dc.html

	FBI Arrests DC Official

	March 12, 2009 11:23 AM

	Before the crack of dawn Thursday morning, more than
	a half-dozen cars and SUVs full of FBI agents pulled
	up to the northwest, Washington, DC, home of Yusuf
	Acar, the head of IT Technology in the Washington
	DC city government's Office of the Chief Technology
	Officer.

	The FBI agents, wearing bullet proof vests, presented
	a search warrant to Acar, handcuffed him and arrested
	him.

	They then began searching his home. Acar's
	mother-in-law came to take away his three young
	children while his wife remained in their house.

	Also this morning, agents began searching the office
	of the Chief Technology Officer.

	Vivek Kundra -- who last week was appointed Chief
	Information Officer by the Obama administration -- is
	Acar's former boss, having served as the city's Chief
	Technology Officer until early February.

	No other information was forthcoming from the FBI.

	-- jpt
	User Comments

	I'm from India and would not give a second thought
	on the involvement of Mr.Kundra in this bribery. It's
	the way we spoiled our country and its disheartening
	to know that these people are spreading this epidemic
	all over the world. If the one that gave bribe is an
	indian, for sure he would have given it taking this
	guy into "consideration".

	Please don't deport them back to India. They will
	bribe here and become free.

	We already have enough corrupt politicians and
	businessmen. WE DON'T NEED MORE.


Widespread resume "enhancement" has been a characteristic of H1-B abuse, and oftentimes disastrous off-shore outsourcing projects involving India and IT.  Then comes THIS:

http://seeker.dice.com/olc/thread.jspa?messageID=96313
	I found my resume with another person's name on it.

	I have heard of this, and even dealt with some *ahem*
	offshore individuals trying to game the interview
	process for gathering marketplace information.
	But I never thought I would see an *ahem* offshore
	name using my resume.

	Can anyone spot the change in writing style, or
	formatting?  Or the fact that the person was employed
	at a company in CO from March 2007 - Present and a
	company in IL from Aug 2007 to December 2007.

	Here is the copy,

	<http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/res/989968402.html>

	and another resume with the same reference to

	Business Analyst/Programmer, Sapphire Technologies & Air
	Methods Corp - (Mar 2007 - Present)

	<http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/res/989476579.html>

	Here is a google search result with at least two results
	using the phrase above.

	<http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Business+Analyst/Programmer,+Sapphire+Technologies+%26+Air+Methods+Corp+-+(Mar+2007+-+Present)%22&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7GGIH&filter=0>

	Resume mill? I cannot overstate fact. Fake listings? Of course. 

http://seeker.dice.com/olc/thread.jspa?messageID=80012
SKundu    	Posts: 28	Registered: 2/26/07
	
	Re: 8 months on bench with SAP ABAP what to do
	Posted: Jul 12, 2008 4:27 PM
	in response to: Sap is sucking me 		

	In my previous company, I worked with many H1B visa
	holders .One of them was arrested by US Immigration
	Department. Later on we learned what was happened to him

	- In fact , the highest degree he had - Indian High
	  School Diploma.
	- He had no real job experience.
	- He did false job experiences , false Master's degree
	  on his resume.

	Technically this is a US Immigration Fraud (obtaining H1B
	visa through false resume, false degree)

	Somehow US Govenment found the fact & he was arrested
	& sent to prison.

	Many H1B's are doing fraud with US Immigration Department
	(www.uscis.gov) in these days & randomly they are checking
	H1B's papers. 

	-----
	CSCS		Posts: 5	Registered: 6/14/08
	Hey, I read from other forums about how to get the very
	first job after paid and got certified from some SAP
	training programs in Canada. What was being told was you
	can just use school projects as your professional
	experience and the school will provide proof for you.

	So these canadians found jobs in US via TN visa with real
	world experience and certifications all from the same
	school.

	The most recent story was a gal added 3 years "experience" 
	to her resume and landed an SAP support job starting in
	June, of course along with her certification. I believe
	her job is in US.

	---

	pjam1976	Posts: 4,285	Registered: 6/19/07

	Yeah and a guy who pretends some documents and forum
	chatter equates to 5 years of SAP experience is somebody
	who earned the right to get a job? Give me a break. I
	guess you can equate best and the brightest to the best 
	at lying on their resume according to your logic. That's
	meritocracy. A place where you can't check on a H1B's real
	experience so you assume it's legit. Except half the time
	anymore it's far from the truth.

	There is nothing wrong with working hard to get what you
	want. But somebody who pretends he spent 5 years doing SAP 
	when the reality is he spent 0 years doing SAP isn't
	somebody working hard to earn that job. They only got it
	because they lied and were an H1B. I wouldn't call that
	meritocracy at all.

	If it's easy for you to assume that US Citizens who aren't 
	working are lazy and outdated and can't keep their skills
	up to date... I guess it would be easy to assume that the
	H1Bs are the dumb ones who couldn't find an IT job in
	India. That's the problem when you throw stereotypes
	around. It goes both ways.


From radkins at impelind.com  Thu Mar 26 13:49:46 2009
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 13:49:46 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
In-Reply-To: <49CBBE48.4010006@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090326181634.705DCC0D3@impelind.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Kulkis
> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 1:41 PM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
> 
> You've heard stories of people being told that they're going 
> to be layed off, and that their separation benefits are 
> dependent upon training their replacements from India?
> 
> In almost all cases, that's Wipro  ... (Snip off the rest)

  Aaron,

	I am impressed at how quickly you have joined up with us "Liberals"
and the Democratic Party in making government work once more for the people
and the workers than for the few at the top and major corporations.

	-Rob

	P.S. That's just some "getting your goat" Aaron, I tell the same
thing to my "Hardcore Republican" family members who have been jumping on
the "Government that Works and is for the People" bandwagon. It trips them
up to no end.



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 26 14:05:51 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 14:05:51 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
In-Reply-To: <20090326181634.705DCC0D3@impelind.com>
References: <20090326181634.705DCC0D3@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <49CBC3FF.7030102@gmail.com>

Robert Adkins wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
>> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Kulkis
>> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 1:41 PM
>> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
>> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
>>
>> You've heard stories of people being told that they're going 
>> to be layed off, and that their separation benefits are 
>> dependent upon training their replacements from India?
>>
>> In almost all cases, that's Wipro  ... (Snip off the rest)
> 
>   Aaron,
> 
> 	I am impressed at how quickly you have joined up with us "Liberals"
> and the Democratic Party in making government work once more for the people
> and the workers than for the few at the top and major corporations.
> 

The current system encourages management practices which are
destructive to both stock-holder value AND long term national
security by completely destroying all incentives for high
school kids to even go into technological lines of work.

If we don't have our own engineers, then we end up like Saudi
Arabia...completely dependent on foreign contractors to do
anything, and utterly incapable of building the hardware
necessary for national defence.

> 	-Rob
> 
> 	P.S. That's just some "getting your goat" Aaron, I tell the same
> thing to my "Hardcore Republican" family members who have been jumping on
> the "Government that Works and is for the People" bandwagon. It trips them
> up to no end.

Actually, I'm a libertarian/constitutionalist.  And I'm very
pro-immigration, too. But I'm completely against ANY sort of fraud,
chicanery, and especially complete violation of immigration laws
(such as the agriculture industry relies on, rather than petitioning
Congress to get the law regarding agricultural labor changed to
something which is more workable, like the old Bracero program)

If a law is bad - I don't believe in ignoring it -- I believe
in getting it changed -- That's how our system is supposed to
work (if a bad law is widely disobeyed, and never enforced, then
it never gets changed -- which means it stays on the books, and
is constantly a Sword of Damocles hanging over the head of all
otherwise law-abiding citizens)


From jbroughton at twmi.rr.com  Thu Mar 26 18:34:55 2009
From: jbroughton at twmi.rr.com (Jim Broughton)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 18:34:55 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Printing a lousy #$%^&* envelope.
In-Reply-To: <200903252317.54550.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>
References: <49C98F15.3030107@twmi.rr.com>
	<200903252317.54550.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49CC030F.9080503@twmi.rr.com>

This did not work. It is what I tried first and about a 4 or 5 more
times because my brain did not seem to register the fact that it just
was not going to work this way.

Jim



Michael S. Mikowski wrote:
> Ran into this today with my wife, who was getting frustrated.
>
> She was trying to create an envelope use the 'insert envelope' option in 
> writer.  This proved buggy.  This on an hp6310, which has excellent support in 
> Linux (which is why I bought it!)
>
> Here is what worked for OOo 2.4.  YMMV:
> 0. Skip 'insert envelope'.  Simply create a new document.
>
> 1. Pick format->page->page tab and under Format pick Env. #10, choose 
> Landscape orientation.
>
> 2. Fill in your envelope
>
> 3. Print envelope.  In the printing dialog, click on 'Properties', and:
> x paper size should show Env. #10
> x leave orientation as protrait
> x leave duplex as off
> ! On Paper Tray, pick envelope feeder.
>
> Press ok and print.  Hopefully this will work for you!
>
> Cheers, Mike
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday 24 March 2009 18:55:33 Jim Broughton wrote:
>   
>> l failure. I am quite angry.
>>  My printing system consists of a Brother 5150D postscript laser
>> printer accessed over the network via a netgear printserver.
>>  The printer has 1 tray for 8.5x11-14 paper and a fold out manual feed tray
>> for envelopes and the like. It never fails to print 8.5x11 documents some
>> even quite complex and duplexed as well.
>>   Try as I might I cannot get this system to print a lousy #10 commercial
>> envelope. I have used Openoffice 2.4, 3.0, Koffice writer, Adobe PDF reader
>> (after sending the output to a pdf from OOO or Koffice writer).  I have
>> tried
>> printing it stright up with the selection for the printer set to #10
>> envelope,
>> I have tried setting margins, rotating 360deg in 90deg incriments. Nothing.
>> The closest it came was Adobe PDF reader put something on the envelope but
>> whoever programmed the PDF converter for KDE and OOO did not force
>> embeded/outlined fonts so it just prints boxes where the letters should be.
>> This sucks. It should be a no brainer. Anyone else have problems with
>> printing envelopes under Linux?
>>
>> Jim
>>     
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>   



From jbroughton at twmi.rr.com  Thu Mar 26 20:51:49 2009
From: jbroughton at twmi.rr.com (Jim Broughton)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 20:51:49 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Printing a lousy #$%^&* envelope.
In-Reply-To: <49C9EFF1.5070206@ameritech.net>
References: <49C98F15.3030107@twmi.rr.com>	<b02c40e90903242116t36b45f4av88dd2bb7c7d0a705@mail.gmail.com>
	<49C9EFF1.5070206@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <49CC2325.6050303@twmi.rr.com>

  I don't usually print envelopes on printers hooked to computers.
I thought just this one time I would try it. I could have stopped after
the first 4 or 5 tries but by then I had gotten to worked up and
faced with a problem that is pissing me off I tend to get single tracked.
It's just that I had never tried it before. Shame on me for thinking it
would be a breeze.
  The folks up in the graphics department where I work run envelopes
through a color copier that acts just like a color printer and they do
it all the time. Funny thing is I have never tried it with Windows XP
and M$ office nor on a Mac with whatever they use.

Jim


Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Jeff Hanson wrote:
>   
>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 9:55 PM, Jim Broughton <jbroughton at twmi.rr.com> wrote:
>>     
>>> I have been a linux user for about 10 years. I have never tried
>>> to print an envelope under Slackware Linux using KDE and Cups.
>>> I may never try again. Total failure. I am quite angry.
>>>       
>> Haven't tried it myself.  I have used gLables to print self-adhesive
>> address labels using a CSV export from a Calc spreadsheet as input.
>>     
>
>
> I haven't tried either, but I think I would have tried printing it as a
> simple word processor document, or more likely a spreadsheet. If I
> understood you correctly you are trying to print *a* (single) envelope?
> Also you are having no trouble using the fold out paper tray, perse?
>
> It seems like, if you didn't mind sacrificing a few sheets of plain
> paper, you could have gotten the text you wanted placed where you wanted
> it, relative to the leading edge of the page, and then just run an
> envelope instead of plain paper.
>
> Failing that I think I would have printed the address on plain paper and
> then cut it (with scissors) and pasted it (with paste) on the envelope.
> Scotch tape and clear packing tape also do well for holding such
> improvised labels in place.
>
> This is still more work than it should be, but I think you would have
> had your envelope in the end. But I feel your pain.
>
> Ray
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>   



From starline at wideopenwest.com  Fri Mar 27 08:56:38 2009
From: starline at wideopenwest.com (bob dion)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 08:56:38 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Printing a lousy #$%^&* envelope.
In-Reply-To: <49C98F15.3030107@twmi.rr.com>
References: <49C98F15.3030107@twmi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <49CCCD06.2050703@wideopenwest.com>

I followed the how-to on an Open Office site to print env.

http://openoffice.blogs.com/openoffice/2005/12/printing_envelo.html

You need to set the paper type in the printer config/options to env for 
it to work.

So I setup an extra copy of my printer in cups to just print env.

Hope this helps
BD



Jim Broughton wrote:
> I have been a linux user for about 10 years. I have never tried
> to print an envelope under Slackware Linux using KDE and Cups.
> I may never try again. Total failure. I am quite angry.
>  My printing system consists of a Brother 5150D postscript laser
> printer accessed over the network via a netgear printserver.
>  The printer has 1 tray for 8.5x11-14 paper and a fold out manual feed tray
> for envelopes and the like. It never fails to print 8.5x11 documents some
> even quite complex and duplexed as well.
>   Try as I might I cannot get this system to print a lousy #10 commercial
> envelope. I have used Openoffice 2.4, 3.0, Koffice writer, Adobe PDF reader
> (after sending the output to a pdf from OOO or Koffice writer).  I have 
> tried
> printing it stright up with the selection for the printer set to #10 
> envelope,
> I have tried setting margins, rotating 360deg in 90deg incriments. Nothing.
> The closest it came was Adobe PDF reader put something on the envelope but
> whoever programmed the PDF converter for KDE and OOO did not force
> embeded/outlined fonts so it just prints boxes where the letters should be.
> This sucks. It should be a no brainer. Anyone else have problems with
> printing envelopes under Linux?
> 
> Jim




From newmaniese at gmail.com  Fri Mar 27 15:52:25 2009
From: newmaniese at gmail.com (Michael)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 15:52:25 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Help: Changing open file limits on Ubuntu 8.04
Message-ID: <225acb190903271252h607913e0l8a06ee88197d5c5@mail.gmail.com>

Hey all;
I am at my wits end on this problem on one of my Web servers that also hosts
my NFS mounts. I am asking here out of last resort because my Google-fu has
failed me.

It appears as though I am running out of available open file descriptors.
The current set up is only allowing 1024. My big user: www-data is also
under the same limits. This is causing quite a bit of latency on the server,
which might come under quite a bit of load.

So far, I have made sure to place in /etc/security/limits.conf:


*   hard    nofile  65536
*   soft    nofile  65536


I also updated sysctl.conf:


fs.file-max = 65536


After sysctl -p I can

$ cat /proc/sys/fs/file-max
65536


but ulimit -n still reads 1024. And trying to set it leads to errors:

$ ulimit -n 65536
-bash: ulimit: open files: cannot modify limit: Operation not permitted


In the end I really need this increased for all users, including the
www-data process. I am really having difficulty here.

Thanks for any help,

Michael


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Fri Mar 27 16:20:22 2009
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 16:20:22 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Help: Changing open file limits on Ubuntu 8.04
In-Reply-To: <225acb190903271252h607913e0l8a06ee88197d5c5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <225acb190903271252h607913e0l8a06ee88197d5c5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90903271320t1d05c9f8td66e8d61828e25d8@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 3:52 PM, Michael <newmaniese at gmail.com> wrote:
> -bash: ulimit: open files: cannot modify limit: Operation not permitted

I searched with Google for "ulimit: open files: cannot modify limit:
Operation not permitted" and found some articles at ittoolbox.com and
linuxquestions.org.  Looks like there are a couple of other limits to
take into account.


From muteid10t at gmail.com  Fri Mar 27 16:54:11 2009
From: muteid10t at gmail.com (Ron Blanchett)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 16:54:11 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Help: Changing open file limits on Ubuntu 8.04
In-Reply-To: <225acb190903271252h607913e0l8a06ee88197d5c5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <225acb190903271252h607913e0l8a06ee88197d5c5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52995d720903271354n612dbebbx44f12bb6ed8b25bf@mail.gmail.com>

You are running 'ulimit -n 65536' as root right.




On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 3:52 PM, Michael <newmaniese at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hey all;
> I am at my wits end on this problem on one of my Web servers that also
> hosts
> my NFS mounts. I am asking here out of last resort because my Google-fu has
> failed me.
>
> It appears as though I am running out of available open file descriptors.
> The current set up is only allowing 1024. My big user: www-data is also
> under the same limits. This is causing quite a bit of latency on the
> server,
> which might come under quite a bit of load.
>
> So far, I have made sure to place in /etc/security/limits.conf:
>
>
> *   hard    nofile  65536
> *   soft    nofile  65536
>
>
> I also updated sysctl.conf:
>
>
> fs.file-max = 65536
>
>
> After sysctl -p I can
>
> $ cat /proc/sys/fs/file-max
> 65536
>
>
> but ulimit -n still reads 1024. And trying to set it leads to errors:
>
> $ ulimit -n 65536
> -bash: ulimit: open files: cannot modify limit: Operation not permitted
>
>
> In the end I really need this increased for all users, including the
> www-data process. I am really having difficulty here.
>
> Thanks for any help,
>
> Michael
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From newmaniese at gmail.com  Fri Mar 27 17:21:43 2009
From: newmaniese at gmail.com (Michael)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 17:21:43 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Help: Changing open file limits on Ubuntu 8.04
In-Reply-To: <52995d720903271354n612dbebbx44f12bb6ed8b25bf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <225acb190903271252h607913e0l8a06ee88197d5c5@mail.gmail.com>
	<52995d720903271354n612dbebbx44f12bb6ed8b25bf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <225acb190903271421k5faaeb2du8966d8fa3ab46a37@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 4:54 PM, Ron Blanchett <muteid10t at gmail.com> wrote:

> You are running 'ulimit -n 65536' as root right.
>
>
When I run ulimit as root I am able to change root's available file
descriptors:

# ulimit -n 65536
# ulimit -n
65536

but this doesn't trickle down into the other users. I am really confused
about this, not too used to need to tune the kernel parameters. I really
need this raised for the other users on the system as well.

Thanks again,

Michael


From jbroughton at twmi.rr.com  Fri Mar 27 18:25:38 2009
From: jbroughton at twmi.rr.com (Jim Broughton)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 18:25:38 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Help: Changing open file limits on Ubuntu 8.04
In-Reply-To: <225acb190903271252h607913e0l8a06ee88197d5c5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <225acb190903271252h607913e0l8a06ee88197d5c5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49CD5262.1050709@twmi.rr.com>

Here ya go. I think this explains limits.conf quite well.

http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/libs/pam/Linux-PAM-html/sag-pam_limits.html

Notice how the USERS must be addressed within this file. Not just a 
global setting.

Cheers, Jim.


Michael wrote:
> Hey all;
> I am at my wits end on this problem on one of my Web servers that also hosts
> my NFS mounts. I am asking here out of last resort because my Google-fu has
> failed me.
>
> It appears as though I am running out of available open file descriptors.
> The current set up is only allowing 1024. My big user: www-data is also
> under the same limits. This is causing quite a bit of latency on the server,
> which might come under quite a bit of load.
>
> So far, I have made sure to place in /etc/security/limits.conf:
>
>
> *   hard    nofile  65536
> *   soft    nofile  65536
>
>
> I also updated sysctl.conf:
>
>
> fs.file-max = 65536
>
>
> After sysctl -p I can
>
> $ cat /proc/sys/fs/file-max
> 65536
>
>
> but ulimit -n still reads 1024. And trying to set it leads to errors:
>
> $ ulimit -n 65536
> -bash: ulimit: open files: cannot modify limit: Operation not permitted
>
>
> In the end I really need this increased for all users, including the
> www-data process. I am really having difficulty here.
>
> Thanks for any help,
>
> Michael
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>   



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 27 18:28:29 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 18:28:29 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Help: Changing open file limits on Ubuntu 8.04
In-Reply-To: <225acb190903271252h607913e0l8a06ee88197d5c5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <225acb190903271252h607913e0l8a06ee88197d5c5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49CD530D.6040905@gmail.com>

Michael wrote:
> Hey all;
> I am at my wits end on this problem on one of my Web servers that also hosts
> my NFS mounts. I am asking here out of last resort because my Google-fu has
> failed me.
> 
> It appears as though I am running out of available open file descriptors.
> The current set up is only allowing 1024. My big user: www-data is also
> under the same limits. This is causing quite a bit of latency on the server,
> which might come under quite a bit of load.
> 
> So far, I have made sure to place in /etc/security/limits.conf:
> 
> 
> *   hard    nofile  65536
> *   soft    nofile  65536
> 
> 
> I also updated sysctl.conf:
> 
> 
> fs.file-max = 65536
> 
> 
> After sysctl -p I can
> 
> $ cat /proc/sys/fs/file-max
> 65536
> 
> 
> but ulimit -n still reads 1024. And trying to set it leads to errors:
> 

Non-root users can only LOWER their ulimits.

For the new limits to take effect, I believe you'll have to reboot.

> $ ulimit -n 65536
> -bash: ulimit: open files: cannot modify limit: Operation not permitted



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 27 18:29:58 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 18:29:58 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Help: Changing open file limits on Ubuntu 8.04
In-Reply-To: <225acb190903271421k5faaeb2du8966d8fa3ab46a37@mail.gmail.com>
References: <225acb190903271252h607913e0l8a06ee88197d5c5@mail.gmail.com>	<52995d720903271354n612dbebbx44f12bb6ed8b25bf@mail.gmail.com>
	<225acb190903271421k5faaeb2du8966d8fa3ab46a37@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49CD5366.5020109@gmail.com>

Michael wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 4:54 PM, Ron Blanchett <muteid10t at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> You are running 'ulimit -n 65536' as root right.
>>
>>
> When I run ulimit as root I am able to change root's available file
> descriptors:
> 
> # ulimit -n 65536
> # ulimit -n
> 65536
> 
> but this doesn't trickle down into the other users. I am really confused
> about this, not too used to need to tune the kernel parameters. I really
> need this raised for the other users on the system as well.

ulimit applies ONLY to the current shell, and all child
(grandchild, etc.) processes.  It does not effect sibling,
parent, cousin, aunt, etc. processes


From newmaniese at gmail.com  Fri Mar 27 19:05:29 2009
From: newmaniese at gmail.com (Michael)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 19:05:29 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Help: Changing open file limits on Ubuntu 8.04
In-Reply-To: <49CD5366.5020109@gmail.com>
References: <225acb190903271252h607913e0l8a06ee88197d5c5@mail.gmail.com>
	<52995d720903271354n612dbebbx44f12bb6ed8b25bf@mail.gmail.com>
	<225acb190903271421k5faaeb2du8966d8fa3ab46a37@mail.gmail.com>
	<49CD5366.5020109@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <225acb190903271605q9512798t276308311ca04c05@mail.gmail.com>

>
>
> ulimit applies ONLY to the current shell, and all child
> (grandchild, etc.) processes.  It does not effect sibling,
> parent, cousin, aunt, etc. processes
>

So how would one up the number of available open files for www-data, which
is only being used by nginx? I could really care less about the shell.

I have done the PAM and ssh stuffs mentioned earlier.

I also have hard rebooted (granted it was 190 days ago) and didn't get
anywhere, but if we think it would work after the changes that I have made,
I guess I am willing to give it a try.

The symptoms of the issue appear are slow reads and writes to the nfs
drives, Empty files sometimes being returned and an error in the Nginx logs,
which read "Too many open files" despite the settings for nginx which has
the file limits at a huge number.


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 28 06:18:55 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 06:18:55 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Help: Changing open file limits on Ubuntu 8.04
In-Reply-To: <225acb190903271605q9512798t276308311ca04c05@mail.gmail.com>
References: <225acb190903271252h607913e0l8a06ee88197d5c5@mail.gmail.com>	<52995d720903271354n612dbebbx44f12bb6ed8b25bf@mail.gmail.com>	<225acb190903271421k5faaeb2du8966d8fa3ab46a37@mail.gmail.com>	<49CD5366.5020109@gmail.com>
	<225acb190903271605q9512798t276308311ca04c05@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49CDF98F.3000608@gmail.com>

Michael wrote:
>>
>> ulimit applies ONLY to the current shell, and all child
>> (grandchild, etc.) processes.  It does not effect sibling,
>> parent, cousin, aunt, etc. processes
>>
> 
> So how would one up the number of available open files for www-data, which
> is only being used by nginx? I could really care less about the shell.

But all processes that you run are children of some shell or another.

The simplest solution is up the limits in the file you mentioned
in /etc, and then reboot the machine.  This will start init
with higher ulimits, and give all children similarly high limits.

> 
> I have done the PAM and ssh stuffs mentioned earlier.
> 
> I also have hard rebooted (granted it was 190 days ago) and didn't get
> anywhere, but if we think it would work after the changes that I have made,
> I guess I am willing to give it a try.
> 
> The symptoms of the issue appear are slow reads and writes to the nfs
> drives, Empty files sometimes being returned and an error in the Nginx logs,
> which read "Too many open files" despite the settings for nginx which has
> the file limits at a huge number.


See above


From rkannan at peoplepc.com  Sat Mar 28 17:52:17 2009
From: rkannan at peoplepc.com (R. Kannan)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 17:52:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] How to make minicom read AT commands from a file
Message-ID: <2987806.1238277137615.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Hello,

I cannot find this in the minicom man page. I want minicom to read and send AT commands from a file to a serial port device (phone). I used to know this. Does anyone know how this can be done?

TIA

________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sat Mar 28 17:57:19 2009
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 17:57:19 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] How to make minicom read AT commands from a file
In-Reply-To: <2987806.1238277137615.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <2987806.1238277137615.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90903281457x5cca6f88md213ef7edbcb9e25@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 5:52 PM, R. Kannan <rkannan at peoplepc.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I cannot find this in the minicom man page. I want minicom to read and send AT commands from a file to a serial port device (phone). I used to know this. Does anyone know how this can be done?
>

http://linux.die.net/man/1/minicom

Could also try cu and kermit.


From rkannan at peoplepc.com  Sat Mar 28 19:19:16 2009
From: rkannan at peoplepc.com (R. Kannan)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 19:19:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] How to make minicom read AT commands from a file
Message-ID: <24804776.1238282356424.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Thanks for the link to man pages. As I said, I already read the man pages, there does not seem to be an option to read AT commands from a file. I know I have done this before but cannot remember how.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com>
>Sent: Mar 28, 2009 5:57 PM
>To: "R. Kannan" <rkannan at peoplepc.com>, MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>Subject: Re: [mdlug] How to make minicom read AT commands from a file
>
>On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 5:52 PM, R. Kannan <rkannan at peoplepc.com> wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I cannot find this in the minicom man page. I want minicom to read and send AT commands from a file to a serial port device (phone). I used to know this. Does anyone know how this can be done?
>>
>
>http://linux.die.net/man/1/minicom
>
>Could also try cu and kermit.


________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com


From mdlug3 at arb.net  Sat Mar 28 18:59:09 2009
From: mdlug3 at arb.net (dave)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 18:59:09 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
In-Reply-To: <20090325.134844.4004.1@webmail19.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20090325.134844.4004.1@webmail19.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <49CEABBD.9000709@arb.net>

It is true... Compuware approached Ford and said they need to increase 
the workers level - saying they are working above their pay grade and 
that the billable rate would need to increase across the board. Ford 
said, sorry, no cash for promotions and raises for Ford employees or 
"agency". So, Compuware told their people to pack their bags. Some are 
already gone, some have until Tuesday....

I guess compuware executive must not be following the auto industry ;-) 
Even GAZ is about to fold tent and the owner was the second richest man 
in Russia only a few months ago.

gib at juno.com wrote:

> 
>The Compuware contract with Ford may be ending.  Many people are being taken off of the Ford account.  So, Ford will be bringing in replacements. 
>____________________________________________________________
>Click to get free auto insurance quotes from top companies.
>http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/BLSrjnsHEaB93DecmLkZDgsuqWWTnlaR5LkUOFDdoIuCjEKrjwPMwxKdRM8/
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>  
>



From mdlug3 at arb.net  Sat Mar 28 19:02:23 2009
From: mdlug3 at arb.net (dave)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 19:02:23 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
In-Reply-To: <49CBAA4B.8080508@gmail.com>
References: <20090326133348.C3DFDC0D3@impelind.com>
	<49CBAA4B.8080508@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49CEAC7F.5010608@arb.net>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:

>Robert Adkins wrote:
>  
>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
>>>[mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Kulkis
>>>Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 1:02 AM
>>>To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
>>>Subject: Re: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
>>>
>>>gib at juno.com wrote:
>>>      
>>>
>>>> 
>>>>The Compuware contract with Ford may be ending.  Many 
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>people are being taken off of the Ford account.  So, Ford 
>>>will be bringing in replacements. 
>>>
>>>Better not be from Wipro -- if so, all of Michigan should be 
>>>up in arms... literally.
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>  This could be opening up a can of worms, but why?
>>
>>  I do not know anything of this Wipro you speak of.
>>    
>>
>
>You've heard stories of people being told that they're
>going to be layed off, and that their separation benefits
>are dependent upon training their replacements from India?
>
>In almost all cases, that's Wipro.  They are the number
>one abuser of the H1-B visa program.
>
>About 10 years ago, when I first heard that the H1-B program
>was being abused, I didn't believe it...but then I started
>seeing more and more evidence that supports the accusation.
>It's being used to displace American IT workers, not
>supplement, which is the purpose of the program.
>  
>

So far, I have not seen any replacements, from India nor anyplace else. 
I have started to get query from other Pimp houses drooling over the 
open requisitions. The fact that Ford HR posted open req's says this is 
not a move to send jobs off shore or to any specific company.


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 28 20:15:21 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 20:15:21 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
In-Reply-To: <49CEABBD.9000709@arb.net>
References: <20090325.134844.4004.1@webmail19.vgs.untd.com>
	<49CEABBD.9000709@arb.net>
Message-ID: <49CEBD99.5080902@gmail.com>

dave wrote:
> It is true... Compuware approached Ford and said they need to increase 
> the workers level - saying they are working above their pay grade and 
> that the billable rate would need to increase across the board. Ford 
> said, sorry, no cash for promotions and raises for Ford employees or 
> "agency". So, Compuware told their people to pack their bags. Some are 
> already gone, some have until Tuesday....
> 
> I guess compuware executive must not be following the auto industry ;-) 
> Even GAZ is about to fold tent and the owner was the second richest man 
> in Russia only a few months ago.
> 

Currently, every single automaker on the planet is on financial
life support after 3 decades of concerted attack by the
enviro-statists (people driving cars = freedom).


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 28 20:17:44 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 20:17:44 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
In-Reply-To: <49CEAC7F.5010608@arb.net>
References: <20090326133348.C3DFDC0D3@impelind.com>	<49CBAA4B.8080508@gmail.com>
	<49CEAC7F.5010608@arb.net>
Message-ID: <49CEBE28.4090301@gmail.com>

dave wrote:
> Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> 
>> Robert Adkins wrote:
>>  
>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
>>>> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Kulkis
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 1:02 AM
>>>> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
>>>> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
>>>>
>>>> gib at juno.com wrote:
>>>>      
>>>>
>>>>> The Compuware contract with Ford may be ending.  Many 
>>>>>        
>>>>>
>>>> people are being taken off of the Ford account.  So, Ford 
>>>> will be bringing in replacements. 
>>>>
>>>> Better not be from Wipro -- if so, all of Michigan should be 
>>>> up in arms... literally.
>>>>
>>>>      
>>>>
>>>  This could be opening up a can of worms, but why?
>>>
>>>  I do not know anything of this Wipro you speak of.
>>>    
>>>
>> You've heard stories of people being told that they're
>> going to be layed off, and that their separation benefits
>> are dependent upon training their replacements from India?
>>
>> In almost all cases, that's Wipro.  They are the number
>> one abuser of the H1-B visa program.
>>
>> About 10 years ago, when I first heard that the H1-B program
>> was being abused, I didn't believe it...but then I started
>> seeing more and more evidence that supports the accusation.
>> It's being used to displace American IT workers, not
>> supplement, which is the purpose of the program.
>>  
>>
> 
> So far, I have not seen any replacements, from India nor anyplace else. 
> I have started to get query from other Pimp houses drooling over the 
> open requisitions. The fact that Ford HR posted open req's says this is 
> not a move to send jobs off shore or to any specific company.

That's good, then.  From your post 3 minutes before this one,
it appears that it's just a reaction to the Compuware exec's
attempt to squeeze blood from a turnip.


From tesral at wowway.com  Sat Mar 28 20:35:32 2009
From: tesral at wowway.com (Garry Stahl)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 20:35:32 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
In-Reply-To: <49CEBE28.4090301@gmail.com>
References: <20090326133348.C3DFDC0D3@impelind.com>	<49CBAA4B.8080508@gmail.com>	<49CEAC7F.5010608@arb.net>
	<49CEBE28.4090301@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49CEC254.2060605@wowway.com>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> That's good, then.  From your post 3 minutes before this one,
> it appears that it's just a reaction to the Compuware exec's
> attempt to squeeze blood from a turnip.
>
>   
trying again

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From billings at negate.org  Sat Mar 28 20:50:45 2009
From: billings at negate.org (Jonathan Billings)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 20:50:45 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] How to make minicom read AT commands from a file
In-Reply-To: <2987806.1238277137615.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <2987806.1238277137615.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20090329005045.GC2889@meson.local>

On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 05:52:17PM -0400, R. Kannan wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I cannot find this in the minicom man page. I want minicom to read
> and send AT commands from a file to a serial port device (phone). I
> used to know this. Does anyone know how this can be done? 

This might not be the way you were doing it, but it should work:

Hit C-a S (send file), choose 'ascii' and then choose the file with
the AT commands.

There's actually a command for doing this kind of thing automatically,
called 'chat'.  It might sound familiar to folks who used linux with
dial-up networking because it was how a lot of people set up PPP and
SLIP dial-up.  It should be included with a distro's PPP packages.

-- 
Jonathan Billings <billings at negate.org>


From jjn at nuge.com  Sun Mar 29 05:18:01 2009
From: jjn at nuge.com (Jay Nugent)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 04:18:01 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] How to make minicom read AT commands from a file
In-Reply-To: <20090329005045.GC2889@meson.local>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0903290416411.4094-100000@home.nuge.com>

Greetings,

On Sat, 28 Mar 2009, Jonathan Billings wrote:

> On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 05:52:17PM -0400, R. Kannan wrote:
> > Hello,
> > 
> > I cannot find this in the minicom man page. I want minicom to read
> > and send AT commands from a file to a serial port device (phone). I
> > used to know this. Does anyone know how this can be done? 
> 
> This might not be the way you were doing it, but it should work:
> 
> Hit C-a S (send file), choose 'ascii' and then choose the file with
> the AT commands.
> 
> There's actually a command for doing this kind of thing automatically,
> called 'chat'.  It might sound familiar to folks who used linux with
> dial-up networking because it was how a lot of people set up PPP and
> SLIP dial-up.  It should be included with a distro's PPP packages.

   And inside CHAT, the thing that does the exchange of sending AT 
commands and reading back the result codes ("OK") was a program called 
EXPECT.

      --- Jay

Train how you will Operate, and you will Operate how you were Trained.
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Jay Nugent   jjn at nuge.com    (734)484-5105    (734)649-0850/Cell       |
|   Nugent Telecommunications  [www.nuge.com]                            |
|   Internet Consulting/Linux SysAdmin/Engineering & Design/ISP Reseller |
| ISP Monitoring [www.ispmonitor.org] ISP & Modem Performance Monitoring |
| Web-Pegasus    [www.webpegasus.com] Web Hosting/DNS Hosting/Shell Accts|
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
  4:01am  up 4 days,  1:08,  4 users,  load average: 0.06, 0.04, 0.01



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Sun Mar 29 05:03:48 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 05:03:48 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] How to make minicom read AT commands from a file
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0903290416411.4094-100000@home.nuge.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0903290416411.4094-100000@home.nuge.com>
Message-ID: <49CF3974.2020200@gmail.com>

Jay Nugent wrote:
> Greetings,
> 
> On Sat, 28 Mar 2009, Jonathan Billings wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 05:52:17PM -0400, R. Kannan wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I cannot find this in the minicom man page. I want minicom to read
>>> and send AT commands from a file to a serial port device (phone). I
>>> used to know this. Does anyone know how this can be done? 
>> This might not be the way you were doing it, but it should work:
>>
>> Hit C-a S (send file), choose 'ascii' and then choose the file with
>> the AT commands.
>>
>> There's actually a command for doing this kind of thing automatically,
>> called 'chat'.  It might sound familiar to folks who used linux with
>> dial-up networking because it was how a lot of people set up PPP and
>> SLIP dial-up.  It should be included with a distro's PPP packages.
> 
>    And inside CHAT, the thing that does the exchange of sending AT 
> commands and reading back the result codes ("OK") was a program called 
> EXPECT.

expect is an interpreted language, and is just called from inside CHAT.

man expect(1)

NAME
       expect - programmed dialogue with interactive programs, Version 5

SYNOPSIS
       expect [ -dDinN ] [ -c cmds ] [ [ -[f|b] ] cmdfile ] [ args ]

INTRODUCTION
       Expect is a program that "talks" to other interactive programs
       according  to  a  script.   Following the script, Expect knows
       what can be expected from  a  program  and  what  the  correct
       response  should be.  An interpreted language provides branch-
       ing and high-level control structures to direct the  dialogue.
       In  addition,  the user can take control and interact directly
       when desired, afterward returning control to the script.

       Expectk is a mixture of Expect and Tk.  It behaves  just  like
       Expect  and  Tk's wish.  Expect can also be used directly in C
       or C++ (that is, without Tcl).  See libexpect(3).

       The name "Expect" comes from the idea of send/expect sequences
       popularized  by uucp, kermit and other modem control programs.
       However unlike uucp, Expect is generalized so that it  can  be
       run as a user-level command with any program and task in mind.
       Expect can actually talk to several programs at the same time.

       For example, here are some things Expect can do:

              ?   Cause  your  computer to dial you back, so that you
                  can login without paying for the call.

              ?   Start a game (e.g., rogue) and if the optimal  con-
                  figuration  doesn't  appear,  restart it (again and
                  again) until it does, then  hand  over  control  to
                  you.

              ?   Run  fsck, and in response to its questions, answer
                  "yes", "no" or give control back to you,  based  on
                  predetermined criteria.

              ?   Connect  to another network or BBS (e.g., MCI Mail,
                  CompuServe) and automatically retrieve your mail so
                  that  it  appears  as  if it was originally sent to
                  your local system.

              ?   Carry environment variables, current directory,  or
                  any kind of information across rlogin, telnet, tip,
                  su, chgrp, etc.

       There are a variety of reasons why the  shell  cannot  perform
       these  tasks.   (Try,  you'll  see.)   All  are  possible with
       Expect.

   .....


From billings at negate.org  Sun Mar 29 12:06:41 2009
From: billings at negate.org (Jonathan Billings)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 12:06:41 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] How to make minicom read AT commands from a file
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0903290416411.4094-100000@home.nuge.com>
References: <20090329005045.GC2889@meson.local>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0903290416411.4094-100000@home.nuge.com>
Message-ID: <20090329160641.GD2889@meson.local>

On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 04:18:01AM -0500, Jay Nugent wrote:
>    And inside CHAT, the thing that does the exchange of sending AT 
> commands and reading back the result codes ("OK") was a program called 
> EXPECT.

Perhaps you used a different 'chat' than me, but the 'chat' I've used
has always been it's own C program, similar to 'expect' but different
syntax.  (I recall expect was in TCL, correct me if I'm wrong.)  You
could certainly get similar results with 'expect' and something like
'cu'.  

-- 
Jonathan Billings <billings at negate.org>


From mdlug3 at arb.net  Sun Mar 29 14:12:20 2009
From: mdlug3 at arb.net (dave)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 14:12:20 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
In-Reply-To: <49CEBE28.4090301@gmail.com>
References: <20090326133348.C3DFDC0D3@impelind.com>	<49CBAA4B.8080508@gmail.com>	<49CEAC7F.5010608@arb.net>
	<49CEBE28.4090301@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49CFBA04.9040101@arb.net>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:

>dave wrote:
>  
>
>>Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Robert Adkins wrote:
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
>>>>>[mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Kulkis
>>>>>Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 1:02 AM
>>>>>To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
>>>>>Subject: Re: [mdlug] Compuware - Ford - Jobs Available
>>>>>
>>>>>gib at juno.com wrote:
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>The Compuware contract with Ford may be ending.  Many 
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>people are being taken off of the Ford account.  So, Ford 
>>>>>will be bringing in replacements. 
>>>>>
>>>>>Better not be from Wipro -- if so, all of Michigan should be 
>>>>>up in arms... literally.
>>>>>
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>> This could be opening up a can of worms, but why?
>>>>
>>>> I do not know anything of this Wipro you speak of.
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>You've heard stories of people being told that they're
>>>going to be layed off, and that their separation benefits
>>>are dependent upon training their replacements from India?
>>>
>>>In almost all cases, that's Wipro.  They are the number
>>>one abuser of the H1-B visa program.
>>>
>>>About 10 years ago, when I first heard that the H1-B program
>>>was being abused, I didn't believe it...but then I started
>>>seeing more and more evidence that supports the accusation.
>>>It's being used to displace American IT workers, not
>>>supplement, which is the purpose of the program.
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>So far, I have not seen any replacements, from India nor anyplace else. 
>>I have started to get query from other Pimp houses drooling over the 
>>open requisitions. The fact that Ford HR posted open req's says this is 
>>not a move to send jobs off shore or to any specific company.
>>    
>>
>
>That's good, then.  From your post 3 minutes before this one,
>it appears that it's just a reaction to the Compuware exec's
>attempt to squeeze blood from a turnip.
>

Yeah, that's my take. Ford like Chrysler owns a software house in Cinai 
(spelling?) India. So, if they wanted to off shore IT jobs, it would be 
a no brainer.


From ldaphelp at thuemmel.com  Sun Mar 29 14:46:00 2009
From: ldaphelp at thuemmel.com (Mark Thuemmel)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 14:46:00 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] How to make minicom read AT commands from a file
In-Reply-To: <2987806.1238277137615.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <2987806.1238277137615.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <49CFC1E8.4040403@thuemmel.com>

R. Kannan wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I cannot find this in the minicom man page. I want minicom to read and send AT commands from a file to a serial port device (phone). I used to know this. Does anyone know how this can be done?
> 

minicom -S nameofyourScript

 can send commands to the modem.  That is assuming you need more than
the standard modem int string.

http://linux.die.net/man/1/runscript


