From painbank at gmail.com  Sat Mar  1 12:41:51 2008
From: painbank at gmail.com (Rich Elswick)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 12:41:51 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] I'll Take one ... was Re: I found a 20 inch monitor today
Message-ID: <cafacd830803010941g7603004fxe9af719cdf4f95ed@mail.gmail.com>

Well, since so many of you have these massive CRTs and I don't, if you
just want to dump one or two, then I will take a couple.

Rich

On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 1:33 PM, Scott Webster Wood <treii28 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Yes, I knew it was coming the first time I saw that 'energy star' logo.  PC pc's!
>
>  Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>  > So far, it's doing well....although i'm not sure if the power
>  > consumption vs flat screens makes it a good idea to keep it
>  > or to give it up.
>  >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>       ____________________________________________________________________________________
>  Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
>  http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>  _______________________________________________
>  mdlug mailing list
>  mdlug at mdlug.org
>  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>



-- 
Rich Elswick
http://www.moyaentertainment.com

<a
href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/scacast"><img
src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/scacast.gif" style="border:0"
alt="The Pain Bank - SCA and WMA"/></a>


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Mon Mar  3 13:25:35 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 13:25:35 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Transfering /home with scp
Message-ID: <20080303132535.0f58b18f@Nokia-N800-26>

Hi Everyone,
	I'm finally at the point of transferring all my files to my new
notebook. The old one is a T30 Thinkpad running opensuse 10.3 and the
new one is a T61 Thinkpad running opensuse 10.3. Can I simply use scp
to copy the entire /home? Or are there files in /home that would be
specific to the hardware/operating system it's on? 
      If I do, I know I must use the -r flag to copy
directories recursivly, the -p flag to preserve ownership and
permissions. What about directories/files that allready exist and
should be replaced, such as /home/.evolution? I've read that cp and scp
are intentionally similar. The man page for cp lists -f as the flag to
be used to replace an existing file if it can't be written to. I don't
see the -f/force flag on scp's man page.  I'm somewhat at a loss on how
to do that part. Of course I could delete all the files in /home before
copying. But I've added programs on the new machine so that seems a
little much because I don't want to remove files that won't be replaced
and I might need.
    Would tar be a better, quicker option? ie Create the archive
of /home on the old machine,
burn
it to disc, then unpack it on the new machine? I tried to make an
archive of my /home several times but I think I wasn't patient enough
or used the wrong command because it either didn't work or was taking
several hours. On the other hand it appears that when unpacking an
archive it overwrites existing files of the same name in the directory
it's unpacked.
    There is probably another option I don't know about, so please
suggest it!

Best Regards, 

-- 
Peter The Plumber sm on the Road
State Licensed Plumber
State Certified Backflow Device Tester
Factory Trained Boiler Install/Service
<http://petertheplumber.net>
24h Service 313.215.5175

Don't sleep with a drip! Call a licensed and experienced plumber.


From mdlug3 at arb.net  Mon Mar  3 13:34:09 2008
From: mdlug3 at arb.net (Dave Arbogast)
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 13:34:09 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Transfering /home with scp
In-Reply-To: <20080303132535.0f58b18f@Nokia-N800-26>
References: <20080303132535.0f58b18f@Nokia-N800-26>
Message-ID: <47CC44A1.80606@arb.net>



Peter Bart wrote:

>Hi Everyone,
>	I'm finally at the point of transferring all my files to my new
>notebook. The old one is a T30 Thinkpad running opensuse 10.3 and the
>new one is a T61 Thinkpad running opensuse 10.3. Can I simply use scp
>to copy the entire /home? Or are there files in /home that would be
>specific to the hardware/operating system it's on? 
>      If I do, I know I must use the -r flag to copy
>directories recursivly, the -p flag to preserve ownership and
>permissions. What about directories/files that allready exist and
>should be replaced, such as /home/.evolution? I've read that cp and scp
>are intentionally similar. The man page for cp lists -f as the flag to
>be used to replace an existing file if it can't be written to. I don't
>see the -f/force flag on scp's man page.  I'm somewhat at a loss on how
>to do that part. Of course I could delete all the files in /home before
>copying. But I've added programs on the new machine so that seems a
>little much because I don't want to remove files that won't be replaced
>and I might need.
>    Would tar be a better, quicker option? ie Create the archive
>of /home on the old machine,
>burn
>it to disc, then unpack it on the new machine? I tried to make an
>archive of my /home several times but I think I wasn't patient enough
>or used the wrong command because it either didn't work or was taking
>several hours. On the other hand it appears that when unpacking an
>archive it overwrites existing files of the same name in the directory
>it's unpacked.
>    There is probably another option I don't know about, so please
>suggest it!
>
>Best Regards, 
>  
>
On a private network I would use SMB or NFS - this gives you better 
control of your structure, I think. Since neither is secure on a public 
network, be sure to disable when done ;-)

-dave


From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Mon Mar  3 13:37:44 2008
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 13:37:44 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Transfering /home with scp
In-Reply-To: <20080303132535.0f58b18f@Nokia-N800-26>
References: <20080303132535.0f58b18f@Nokia-N800-26>
Message-ID: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE0539956B@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

If I were you, I would do the following on the source machine:

# cd /home
# tar cpf - * | ssh -l root target_host '(cd /home; tar xpf - )'

Scp has some issues with maintaining permissions (or maybe it's
ownerships?).

Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Peter Bart
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 1:26 PM
To: MDLUG main discussion list
Subject: [mdlug] Transfering /home with scp

Hi Everyone,
	I'm finally at the point of transferring all my files to my new
notebook. The old one is a T30 Thinkpad running opensuse 10.3 and the
new one is a T61 Thinkpad running opensuse 10.3. Can I simply use scp
to copy the entire /home? Or are there files in /home that would be
specific to the hardware/operating system it's on? 
      If I do, I know I must use the -r flag to copy
directories recursivly, the -p flag to preserve ownership and
permissions. What about directories/files that allready exist and
should be replaced, such as /home/.evolution? I've read that cp and scp
are intentionally similar. The man page for cp lists -f as the flag to
be used to replace an existing file if it can't be written to. I don't
see the -f/force flag on scp's man page.  I'm somewhat at a loss on how
to do that part. Of course I could delete all the files in /home before
copying. But I've added programs on the new machine so that seems a
little much because I don't want to remove files that won't be replaced
and I might need.
    Would tar be a better, quicker option? ie Create the archive
of /home on the old machine,
burn
it to disc, then unpack it on the new machine? I tried to make an
archive of my /home several times but I think I wasn't patient enough
or used the wrong command because it either didn't work or was taking
several hours. On the other hand it appears that when unpacking an
archive it overwrites existing files of the same name in the directory
it's unpacked.
    There is probably another option I don't know about, so please
suggest it!

Best Regards, 

-- 
Peter The Plumber sm on the Road
State Licensed Plumber
State Certified Backflow Device Tester
Factory Trained Boiler Install/Service
<http://petertheplumber.net>
24h Service 313.215.5175

Don't sleep with a drip! Call a licensed and experienced plumber.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Mon Mar  3 13:34:11 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 13:34:11 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Backup Options
Message-ID: <20080303133411.18d4ff2b@Nokia-N800-26>

Hello again,
    Is tar a decent option to 'backup' ones /home? I've seen bacula,
but it seems a little much right now. I've thought about using some
program to create an image of my hard disk much like VMWare creates a
snapshot. I will probably look at that when I get roundtuit, right now
I need something quick and dirty while the roundtuit spins.

Best Regards,


-- 
Peter The Plumber sm on the Road
State Licensed Plumber
State Certified Backflow Device Tester
Factory Trained Boiler Install/Service
<http://petertheplumber.net>
24h Service 313.215.5175

Don't sleep with a drip! Call a licensed and experienced plumber.


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Mon Mar  3 14:36:17 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 14:36:17 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Backup Options
In-Reply-To: <20080303133411.18d4ff2b@Nokia-N800-26>
References: <20080303133411.18d4ff2b@Nokia-N800-26>
Message-ID: <47CC5331.5030006@hotpop.com>

Peter Bart wrote:
> Hello again,
>     Is tar a decent option to 'backup' ones /home? I've seen bacula,]
> but it seems a little much right now. I've thought about using some
> program to create an image of my hard disk much like VMWare creates a
> snapshot. I will probably look at that when I get roundtuit, right now
> I need something quick and dirty while the roundtuit spins.

Tar is adequate, but not perfect.
remember, tar = Tape ARchive.




From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Mon Mar  3 14:40:39 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 14:40:39 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Transfering /home with scp
In-Reply-To: <20080303132535.0f58b18f@Nokia-N800-26>
References: <20080303132535.0f58b18f@Nokia-N800-26>
Message-ID: <47CC5437.1090005@hotpop.com>

Peter Bart wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
> 	I'm finally at the point of transferring all my files to my new
> notebook. The old one is a T30 Thinkpad running opensuse 10.3 and the
> new one is a T61 Thinkpad running opensuse 10.3. Can I simply use scp
> to copy the entire /home? Or are there files in /home that would be
> specific to the hardware/operating system it's on? 

Why introduce the overhead of encryption between two laptops???

newlaptop # cd /
newlaptop # (rsh old_laptop (cd / && tar cvf - /home)) | tar xvf -

Or if you have a USB hard drive, just create a tar file
on that, then un-tar it onto the new laptop




From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Mar  3 16:35:01 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 16:35:01 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Transfering /home with scp
In-Reply-To: <47CC44A1.80606@arb.net>
References: <20080303132535.0f58b18f@Nokia-N800-26> <47CC44A1.80606@arb.net>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803031335h4c92ff81p7dc93dcfc247f9c3@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 1:34 PM, Dave Arbogast <mdlug3 at arb.net> wrote:
>  On a private network I would use SMB or NFS - this gives you better
>  control of your structure, I think. Since neither is secure on a public
>  network, be sure to disable when done ;-)

SMB enforces Windows file name limits so files with ":" and other
characters won't transfer.  Path length limits also apply.


From lnovak1 at ford.com  Mon Mar  3 17:00:24 2008
From: lnovak1 at ford.com (lnovak1 at ford.com)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 17:00:24 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Lou Novak asked us to send you this post from Engadget
Message-ID: <200803032200.m23M0OQJ014323@acblogs-lm103.websys.aol.com>


   From: [1]Engadget
   URL:
   [2]http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/02/microsoft-speculates-on-ad-suppo
   rted-sync/
   Sent from: [3]Lou Novak (lnovak1 at ford.com)
   Sent to: mdlug at mdlug.org
   Comments: Some speculation on the future of Sync, the system found in
   Ford products. No mention of vehicle control systems however.
     _________________________________________________________________

                 [4]Microsoft speculates on ad-supported Sync

  03-02-2008

   Apparently, Microsoft has plans for [5]Sync that extend beyond the
   standard voice-activation scheme they've got going right now. The
   company wants to deliver a wider range of network connectivity for
   in-car use, and they're debating the possibility of moving away from
   subscription-based services to an ad-funded scenario. What exactly
   does that mean? We'll let Martin Thall, general manager of Microsoft's
   Automotive Business Unit explain: "We know where you are and we know
   where you're headed," he says, seemingly unaware of the Orwellian
   implications. "We could target that advertising directly to your car."
   You getting that? Targeted ads. In your car. While you're driving.
   Apparently, execs don't think you'll mind being bombarded inside your
   vehicle because you're, "used to advertising in the car. We hear ads
   on the radio and see billboards on the road." Of course, this is
   speculation on future technologies, so nothing is set in ston e --
   hopefully someone comes to their senses before our hovercar interiors
   glitter with holographic spam.

References

   Visible links
   1. http://www.engadget.com/
   2. http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/02/microsoft-speculates-on-ad-supported-sync/
   3. mailto:lnovak1 at ford.com
   4. file://localhost/tmp/%PostURL
   5. http://www.engadget.com/tag/Sync/

   Hidden links:
   6. http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/02/microsoft-wants.html


From mdlug3 at arb.net  Mon Mar  3 17:47:36 2008
From: mdlug3 at arb.net (Dave Arbogast)
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 17:47:36 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Transfering /home with scp
In-Reply-To: <47CC5437.1090005@hotpop.com>
References: <20080303132535.0f58b18f@Nokia-N800-26>
	<47CC5437.1090005@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <47CC8008.9040606@arb.net>



Aaron Kulkis wrote:

>Peter Bart wrote:
>  
>
>>Hi Everyone,
>>	I'm finally at the point of transferring all my files to my new
>>notebook. The old one is a T30 Thinkpad running opensuse 10.3 and the
>>new one is a T61 Thinkpad running opensuse 10.3. Can I simply use scp
>>to copy the entire /home? Or are there files in /home that would be
>>specific to the hardware/operating system it's on? 
>>    
>>
>
>Why introduce the overhead of encryption between two laptops???
>
>newlaptop # cd /
>newlaptop # (rsh old_laptop (cd / && tar cvf - /home)) | tar xvf -
>
>Or if you have a USB hard drive, just create a tar file
>on that, then un-tar it onto the new laptop
>
>  
>
There's no encryption with NFS either. If you want to transfer 
_everthing_ without regard to what's on the new one, then Aaron is 
right. If you want to be selective, I'd do NFS.

-dave


From tesral at comcast.net  Mon Mar  3 17:56:07 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 17:56:07 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Lou Novak asked us to send you this post from Engadget
In-Reply-To: <200803032200.m23M0OQJ014323@acblogs-lm103.websys.aol.com>
References: <200803032200.m23M0OQJ014323@acblogs-lm103.websys.aol.com>
Message-ID: <47CC8207.2010206@comcast.net>

lnovak1 at ford.com wrote:
>    You getting that? Targeted ads. In your car. While you're driving.
>    Apparently, execs don't think you'll mind being bombarded inside your
>    vehicle because you're, "used to advertising in the car. We hear ads
>    on the radio and see billboards on the road." Of course, this is
>    speculation on future technologies, so nothing is set in ston e --
>    hopefully someone comes to their senses before our hovercar interiors
>    glitter with holographic spam.
>   

Remind me to put a screwdriver through that thing should I ever buy a
car so inflicted.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Mar  3 18:11:21 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 18:11:21 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Lou Novak asked us to send you this post from Engadget
In-Reply-To: <200803032200.m23M0OQJ014323@acblogs-lm103.websys.aol.com>
References: <200803032200.m23M0OQJ014323@acblogs-lm103.websys.aol.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803031511g39b509c7ne732bd31b57fb10e@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 5:00 PM,  <lnovak1 at ford.com> wrote:
>                  [4]Microsoft speculates on ad-supported Sync

I can see the potential in it.  The ECU could signal Sync that the
engine efficiency is lower than normal.  Sync could then suggest
solutions the driver can select from like "Gummout Anti-Virus for
ECUs".


From ebielaczyc at gmail.com  Mon Mar  3 21:52:50 2008
From: ebielaczyc at gmail.com (Ein Bielaczyc)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 21:52:50 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Transfering /home with scp
In-Reply-To: <20080303132535.0f58b18f@Nokia-N800-26>
References: <20080303132535.0f58b18f@Nokia-N800-26>
Message-ID: <ba6f3ba00803031852n77db3b46j1521b75995c683c0@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 1:25 PM, Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>         I'm finally at the point of transferring all my files to my new
>  notebook. The old one is a T30 Thinkpad running opensuse 10.3 and the
>  new one is a T61 Thinkpad running opensuse 10.3. Can I simply use scp
>  to copy the entire /home? Or are there files in /home that would be
>  specific to the hardware/operating system it's on?
>       If I do, I know I must use the -r flag to copy
>  directories recursivly, the -p flag to preserve ownership and
>  permissions. What about directories/files that allready exist and
>  should be replaced, such as /home/.evolution? I've read that cp and scp
>  are intentionally similar. The man page for cp lists -f as the flag to
>  be used to replace an existing file if it can't be written to. I don't
>  see the -f/force flag on scp's man page.  I'm somewhat at a loss on how
>  to do that part. Of course I could delete all the files in /home before
>  copying. But I've added programs on the new machine so that seems a
>  little much because I don't want to remove files that won't be replaced
>  and I might need.
>     Would tar be a better, quicker option? ie Create the archive
>  of /home on the old machine,
>  burn
>  it to disc, then unpack it on the new machine? I tried to make an
>  archive of my /home several times but I think I wasn't patient enough
>  or used the wrong command because it either didn't work or was taking
>  several hours. On the other hand it appears that when unpacking an
>  archive it overwrites existing files of the same name in the directory
>  it's unpacked.
>     There is probably another option I don't know about, so please
>  suggest it!
>
>  Best Regards,
>
>  --
>  Peter The Plumber sm on the Road
>  State Licensed Plumber
>  State Certified Backflow Device Tester
>  Factory Trained Boiler Install/Service
>  <http://petertheplumber.net>
>  24h Service 313.215.5175
>
>  Don't sleep with a drip! Call a licensed and experienced plumber.
>  _______________________________________________
>  mdlug mailing list
>  mdlug at mdlug.org
>  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>

I've had much success using rsync to transfer files. If security is a
concern rsync can employ the use of ssh to transfer data inside a
secure connection. If security is not a concern then I'd also
recommend NFS, as it is fairly easy to setup, and then use rsync to
transfer.

Just FYI, the following would sync "/home" on Old-Machine and New-Machine.

As root on Old-Machine:
       rsync -a -e ssh /home/ root at new-machine:/home/

There are many other options with rsync to control just what is, and
what isn't, transferred.

-- 
Ein Bielaczyc <ebielaczyc at gmail.com>

NOTICE: This E-mail (including attachments) is covered by the
Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C.2510-2521, is
confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention,
dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is
strictly  prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have
received the message in error, then delete it.


From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Mon Mar  3 23:36:22 2008
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Robert Meier)
Date: Mon,  3 Mar 2008 23:36:22 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Transfering /home with scp
In-Reply-To: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE0539956B@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	(GregWojtak@quickenloans.com)
References: <20080303132535.0f58b18f@Nokia-N800-26>
	<8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE0539956B@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
Message-ID: <20080304043622.9B283127CFB@starfox.local>

Peter,

> I'm finally at the point of transferring all my files to my new notebook.

I suggest using rsync(1).

I periodically burn a backup of my /home to cd, as routine.

> ... Can I simply use scp to copy the entire /home?

You can subject to some limits:
    1. Normal users, each have there own directory under /home.
       Consequently, if you have more than one user,
       each directory in home will have its own user and group.
       IIRC, scp will throw out this information.
       IIRC, tar will record owner information only for files it can read.
       IIRC, tar will write owner information only if run as root.
       IIRC, rsync preserves owner information in "archive" mode if able.
    2. Hard links are limited to a filesystem, and cannot be copied without
       tools not commonly supported.
       Consequently, if you have anything dependent on hard links,
       you'll have to relink those by hand.
       rsync -H will preserve hard-links where possible,
       but may take a loooong time.
       (If you don't know of anything dependent on hard links,
        then you probably don't have anything dependent on hard links.)
    3. unix knows users and groups by uid, and gid (integers) mapped
       for human use to names.
       Consequently, unless your /etc/passwd and /etc/group files map
       the same names to the same uids and gids, expect the
       human-readable names to change.

> Or are there files in /home that would be
> specific to the hardware/operating system it's on?

IMHO, there shouldn't be, but some packages have unnecessary dependencies.

> Would tar be a better, quicker option?

If you handle the uid/gid maps manually,
the tar suggestion would seem the simplest.
> # cd /home
> # tar cpf - * | ssh -l root target_host '(cd /home; tar xpf - )'

The encryption overhead of ssh, is probably less than 50% and
IMHO well worth the time saved avoiding potential network issues.

If you use sneaker net (bundle into tar file, burn to cd,
unpack from cd), you need enough space on the original disk to
hold an entire copy in the tar file.

If you burn a copy to cdrom, you have a backup in case something
happens to either your old or new hard disk.

> ... On the other hand it appears that when unpacking an archive
>  it overwrites existing files of the same name in the directory
> it's unpacked.

See -k option of tar(1).  See the -u flag of rsync(1).

Hopefully helpful,
-- 
Bob

  "There was no "before" the beginning of our universe,
   because once upon a time there was no time."
     -- John D. Barrow


From danno at umich.edu  Tue Mar  4 00:47:34 2008
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 00:47:34 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Backup Options
In-Reply-To: <20080303133411.18d4ff2b@Nokia-N800-26>
References: <20080303133411.18d4ff2b@Nokia-N800-26>
Message-ID: <20080304054734.GA31459@maniac.deathstar.org>

tar is a lot better than no backup.

a good, easy to implement scheme for snapshotted backup is described
here:

http://www.mikerubel.org/computers/rsync_snapshots/

On Mon, Mar 03, 2008 at 01:34:11PM -0500, Peter Bart wrote:
> Hello again,
>     Is tar a decent option to 'backup' ones /home? I've seen bacula,
> but it seems a little much right now. I've thought about using some
> program to create an image of my hard disk much like VMWare creates a
> snapshot. I will probably look at that when I get roundtuit, right now
> I need something quick and dirty while the roundtuit spins.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> 
> -- 
> Peter The Plumber sm on the Road
> State Licensed Plumber
> State Certified Backflow Device Tester
> Factory Trained Boiler Install/Service
> <http://petertheplumber.net>
> 24h Service 313.215.5175
> 
> Don't sleep with a drip! Call a licensed and experienced plumber.
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Tue Mar  4 02:53:16 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 02:53:16 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Transfering /home with scp
In-Reply-To: <ba6f3ba00803031852n77db3b46j1521b75995c683c0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20080303132535.0f58b18f@Nokia-N800-26>
	<ba6f3ba00803031852n77db3b46j1521b75995c683c0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47CCFFEC.6050209@hotpop.com>

Ein Bielaczyc wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 1:25 PM, Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:
>> Hi Everyone,
>>         I'm finally at the point of transferring all my files to my new
>>  notebook. The old one is a T30 Thinkpad running opensuse 10.3 and the
>>  new one is a T61 Thinkpad running opensuse 10.3. Can I simply use scp
>>  to copy the entire /home? Or are there files in /home that would be
>>  specific to the hardware/operating system it's on?
>>       If I do, I know I must use the -r flag to copy
>>  directories recursivly, the -p flag to preserve ownership and
>>  permissions. What about directories/files that allready exist and
>>  should be replaced, such as /home/.evolution? I've read that cp and scp
>>  are intentionally similar. The man page for cp lists -f as the flag to
>>  be used to replace an existing file if it can't be written to. I don't
>>  see the -f/force flag on scp's man page.  I'm somewhat at a loss on how
>>  to do that part. Of course I could delete all the files in /home before
>>  copying. But I've added programs on the new machine so that seems a
>>  little much because I don't want to remove files that won't be replaced
>>  and I might need.
>>     Would tar be a better, quicker option? ie Create the archive
>>  of /home on the old machine,
>>  burn
>>  it to disc, then unpack it on the new machine? I tried to make an
>>  archive of my /home several times but I think I wasn't patient enough
>>  or used the wrong command because it either didn't work or was taking
>>  several hours. On the other hand it appears that when unpacking an
>>  archive it overwrites existing files of the same name in the directory
>>  it's unpacked.
>>     There is probably another option I don't know about, so please
>>  suggest it!
>>
>>  Best Regards,
>>
>>  --
>>  Peter The Plumber sm on the Road
>>  State Licensed Plumber
>>  State Certified Backflow Device Tester
>>  Factory Trained Boiler Install/Service
>>  <http://petertheplumber.net>
>>  24h Service 313.215.5175
>>
>>  Don't sleep with a drip! Call a licensed and experienced plumber.
>>
> 
> I've had much success using rsync to transfer files. If security is a
> concern rsync can employ the use of ssh to transfer data inside a
> secure connection. If security is not a concern then I'd also
> recommend NFS, as it is fairly easy to setup, and then use rsync to
> transfer.

If security is a concern, he can plug both laptops into a hub
which is not connected to anything else.  Then there's no need
for ssh, or any other encryption, security BS.




From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Tue Mar  4 02:55:23 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 02:55:23 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Transfering /home with scp
In-Reply-To: <20080304043622.9B283127CFB@starfox.local>
References: <20080303132535.0f58b18f@Nokia-N800-26>	<8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE0539956B@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<20080304043622.9B283127CFB@starfox.local>
Message-ID: <47CD006B.80302@hotpop.com>

Robert Meier wrote:
> Peter,
> 
>> I'm finally at the point of transferring all my files to my new notebook.
> 
> I suggest using rsync(1).
> 
> I periodically burn a backup of my /home to cd, as routine.
> 
>> ... Can I simply use scp to copy the entire /home?
> 
> You can subject to some limits:
>     1. Normal users, each have there own directory under /home.
>        Consequently, if you have more than one user,
>        each directory in home will have its own user and group.
>        IIRC, scp will throw out this information.
>        IIRC, tar will record owner information only for files it can read.
>        IIRC, tar will write owner information only if run as root.
>        IIRC, rsync preserves owner information in "archive" mode if able.
>     2. Hard links are limited to a filesystem, and cannot be copied without
>        tools not commonly supported.
>        Consequently, if you have anything dependent on hard links,
>        you'll have to relink those by hand.
>        rsync -H will preserve hard-links where possible,
>        but may take a loooong time.
>        (If you don't know of anything dependent on hard links,
>         then you probably don't have anything dependent on hard links.)
>     3. unix knows users and groups by uid, and gid (integers) mapped
>        for human use to names.
>        Consequently, unless your /etc/passwd and /etc/group files map
>        the same names to the same uids and gids, expect the
>        human-readable names to change.
> 
>> Or are there files in /home that would be
>> specific to the hardware/operating system it's on?
> 
> IMHO, there shouldn't be, but some packages have unnecessary dependencies.
> 
>> Would tar be a better, quicker option?
> 
> If you handle the uid/gid maps manually,
> the tar suggestion would seem the simplest.
>> # cd /home
>> # tar cpf - * | ssh -l root target_host '(cd /home; tar xpf - )'
> 
> The encryption overhead of ssh, is probably less than 50% and
> IMHO well worth the time saved avoiding potential network issues.
> 

It's much simpler to simply connect the the two computers
to a hub which is not connected to anything else, or to
use a cross-over cable between the two.

Then the two machines are physically isolated from the rest
of the world, and no encryption is needed.




From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Tue Mar  4 08:21:53 2008
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Robert Meier)
Date: Tue,  4 Mar 2008 08:21:53 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Transfering /home with scp
In-Reply-To: <47CD006B.80302@hotpop.com> (message from Aaron Kulkis on Tue, 04
	Mar 2008 02:55:23 -0500)
References: <20080303132535.0f58b18f@Nokia-N800-26>	<8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE0539956B@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<20080304043622.9B283127CFB@starfox.local> <47CD006B.80302@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <20080304132153.8001C127CFD@starfox.local>

Aaron,

>>> # cd /home
>>> # tar cpf - * | ssh -l root target_host '(cd /home; tar xpf - )'

> It's much simpler to simply connect the the two computers
> to a hub which is not connected to anything else, or to
> use a cross-over cable between the two.

<UNTESTED>
bash# find /home -depth -print | cpio -ov |
>     rsh root at target_host '(cd /home; cpio -idv)'
</UNTESTED>

> Then the two machines are physically isolated from the rest
> of the world, and no encryption is needed.

Encryption is not needed for secure or isolated LAN transfer.

People suggest ssh because most distros supply it along with tools
for its easy configuration.  Because of internet security concerns,
most distros no longer provide rsh and other insecure (by default) tools.

AFAIK, opensuse-10.3, by default, supplies only ssh for scriptible
remote command execution.  IMHO, if you have more than one computer
in your LAN, I would expect you to frequently move small files
between them, and so rsh, and telnet soon become worth the effort
to install and care to use.

Hopefully helpful,
-- 
Bob

  "The saddest aspect of life right now,
   is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom."
     -- Isaac Asimov



From starline at wideopenwest.com  Tue Mar  4 08:52:41 2008
From: starline at wideopenwest.com (Bob Dion)
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 08:52:41 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Lou Novak asked us to send you this post from Engadget
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90803031511g39b509c7ne732bd31b57fb10e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200803032200.m23M0OQJ014323@acblogs-lm103.websys.aol.com>
	<b02c40e90803031511g39b509c7ne732bd31b57fb10e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47CD5429.2090807@wideopenwest.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 5:00 PM,  <lnovak1 at ford.com> wrote:
>>                  [4]Microsoft speculates on ad-supported Sync
> 
> I can see the potential in it.  The ECU could signal Sync that the
> engine efficiency is lower than normal.  Sync could then suggest
> solutions the driver can select from like "Gummout Anti-Virus for
> ECUs".

and here's an interesting article that showed up in the free press a 
couple weeks ago. Looks like MS up to their old tricks again, make 
someone else's system malfunction so they can replace it with their own.

Sync, navigation a bad match
Together they make iPod play frustrating

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080217/COL14/802170637/

BD


From gib at juno.com  Tue Mar  4 08:59:25 2008
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 13:59:25 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  Transfering /home with scp
Message-ID: <20080304.085925.24898.0@webmail07.vgs.untd.com>

 
Yeah, I saw that TV show last night: Terminator The Shara Conner Chronicles.  The bad cyborg from the future was just a memory chip but it was able to connect to a cell phone and dial out.

-- Aaron Kulkis <akulkis3 at hotpop.com> wrote:
Robert Meier wrote:
> Peter,
> 
>> I'm finally at the point of transferring all my files to my new notebook.
> 
> I suggest using rsync(1).
> 
> I periodically burn a backup of my /home to cd, as routine.
> 
>> ... Can I simply use scp to copy the entire /home?
> 
> You can subject to some limits:
>     1. Normal users, each have there own directory under /home.
>        Consequently, if you have more than one user,
>        each directory in home will have its own user and group.
>        IIRC, scp will throw out this information.
>        IIRC, tar will record owner information only for files it can read.
>        IIRC, tar will write owner information only if run as root.
>        IIRC, rsync preserves owner information in "archive" mode if able.
>     2. Hard links are limited to a filesystem, and cannot be copied without
>        tools not commonly supported.
>        Consequently, if you have anything dependent on hard links,
>        you'll have to relink those by hand.
>        rsync -H will preserve hard-links where possible,
>        but may take a loooong time.
>        (If you don't know of anything dependent on hard links,
>         then you probably don't have anything dependent on hard links.)
>     3. unix knows users and groups by uid, and gid (integers) mapped
>        for human use to names.
>        Consequently, unless your /etc/passwd and /etc/group files map
>        the same names to the same uids and gids, expect the
>        human-readable names to change.
> 
>> Or are there files in /home that would be
>> specific to the hardware/operating system it's on?
> 
> IMHO, there shouldn't be, but some packages have unnecessary dependencies.
> 
>> Would tar be a better, quicker option?
> 
> If you handle the uid/gid maps manually,
> the tar suggestion would seem the simplest.
>> # cd /home
>> # tar cpf - * | ssh -l root target_host '(cd /home; tar xpf - )'
> 
> The encryption overhead of ssh, is probably less than 50% and
> IMHO well worth the time saved avoiding potential network issues.
> 

It's much simpler to simply connect the the two computers
to a hub which is not connected to anything else, or to
use a cross-over cable between the two.

Then the two machines are physically isolated from the rest
of the world, and no encryption is needed.


_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


_____________________________________________________________
Click now to find a divorce attorney near you!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iiggZok0Ryr5VjeRJL8wlFVuEVHzc9SiaF6vScq7l1iEuiIOA/


From radkins at impelind.com  Tue Mar  4 09:13:50 2008
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 09:13:50 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Lou Novak asked us to send you this post from Engadget
In-Reply-To: <200803032200.m23M0OQJ014323@acblogs-lm103.websys.aol.com>
Message-ID: <20080304141324.F0F08C0CA@impelind.com>

I very nearly exclusively listen to NPR in my automobile.

I am very unused to listening to ads, if my automobile began to spit out
targeted ads, I would gut the entire automobile in order to remove whatever
is sending such advertisements to me and then replace it with something that
would benefit me.

As for what I'd do with the equipment, I'd probably hold onto it and see if
I could organize a large number of likewise minded individuals to
simultaneously ship all of the hardware to the offices/homes of Ford
Executives with a note sincerely advising them where they should shove the
attached equipment.

-Rob

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of lnovak1 at ford.com
> Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 5:00 PM
> To: mdlug at mdlug.org
> Subject: [mdlug] Lou Novak asked us to send you this post 
> from Engadget
> 
> 
>    From: [1]Engadget
>    URL:
>    
> [2]http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/02/microsoft-speculates-on-ad-suppo
>    rted-sync/
>    Sent from: [3]Lou Novak (lnovak1 at ford.com)
>    Sent to: mdlug at mdlug.org
>    Comments: Some speculation on the future of Sync, the 
> system found in
>    Ford products. No mention of vehicle control systems however.
>      _________________________________________________________________
> 
>                  [4]Microsoft speculates on ad-supported Sync
> 
>   03-02-2008
> 
>    Apparently, Microsoft has plans for [5]Sync that extend beyond the
>    standard voice-activation scheme they've got going right now. The
>    company wants to deliver a wider range of network connectivity for
>    in-car use, and they're debating the possibility of moving 
> away from
>    subscription-based services to an ad-funded scenario. What exactly
>    does that mean? We'll let Martin Thall, general manager of 
> Microsoft's
>    Automotive Business Unit explain: "We know where you are 
> and we know
>    where you're headed," he says, seemingly unaware of the Orwellian
>    implications. "We could target that advertising directly 
> to your car."
>    You getting that? Targeted ads. In your car. While you're driving.
>    Apparently, execs don't think you'll mind being bombarded 
> inside your
>    vehicle because you're, "used to advertising in the car. 
> We hear ads
>    on the radio and see billboards on the road." Of course, this is
>    speculation on future technologies, so nothing is set in ston e --
>    hopefully someone comes to their senses before our 
> hovercar interiors
>    glitter with holographic spam.
> 
> References
> 
>    Visible links
>    1. http://www.engadget.com/
>    2. 
> http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/02/microsoft-speculates-on-ad-
> supported-sync/
>    3. mailto:lnovak1 at ford.com
>    4. file://localhost/tmp/%PostURL
>    5. http://www.engadget.com/tag/Sync/
> 
>    Hidden links:
>    6. http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/02/microsoft-wants.html
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 



From tesral at comcast.net  Tue Mar  4 11:20:53 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 11:20:53 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Lou Novak asked us to send you this post from Engadget
In-Reply-To: <20080304141324.F0F08C0CA@impelind.com>
References: <20080304141324.F0F08C0CA@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <47CD76E5.10303@comcast.net>

Robert Adkins wrote:
> As for what I'd do with the equipment, I'd probably hold onto it and see if
> I could organize a large number of likewise minded individuals to
> simultaneously ship all of the hardware to the offices/homes of Ford
> Executives with a note sincerely advising them where they should shove the
> attached equipment.
>   

C.O.D.  I'm an NPR user too. 

I have another tactic as well.  "How much are you paying me to ride in
this car?  I don't listen to ads for nothing."

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From mdlug3 at arb.net  Tue Mar  4 11:39:50 2008
From: mdlug3 at arb.net (Dave Arbogast)
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 11:39:50 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Lou Novak asked us to send you this post from Engadget
In-Reply-To: <47CD5429.2090807@wideopenwest.com>
References: <200803032200.m23M0OQJ014323@acblogs-lm103.websys.aol.com>	<b02c40e90803031511g39b509c7ne732bd31b57fb10e@mail.gmail.com>
	<47CD5429.2090807@wideopenwest.com>
Message-ID: <47CD7B56.1010504@arb.net>



Bob Dion wrote:

>Jeff Hanson wrote:
>  
>
>>On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 5:00 PM,  <lnovak1 at ford.com> wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>                 [4]Microsoft speculates on ad-supported Sync
>>>      
>>>
>>I can see the potential in it.  The ECU could signal Sync that the
>>engine efficiency is lower than normal.  Sync could then suggest
>>solutions the driver can select from like "Gummout Anti-Virus for
>>ECUs".
>>    
>>
>
>and here's an interesting article that showed up in the free press a 
>couple weeks ago. Looks like MS up to their old tricks again, make 
>someone else's system malfunction so they can replace it with their own.
>
>Sync, navigation a bad match
>Together they make iPod play frustrating
>
>http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080217/COL14/802170637/
>
>BD
>______________
>
Notice the FreePress slurping a little info from you? Twice that page 
attempts to send data back a couple of times?

http://gcirm.dmp.gcion.com/RealMedia/ads/
http://js.revsci.net/gateway/gw.js?csid=J06575

-dave




From robert.citek at gmail.com  Tue Mar  4 12:34:31 2008
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 11:34:31 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] Transfering /home with scp
In-Reply-To: <20080303132535.0f58b18f@Nokia-N800-26>
References: <20080303132535.0f58b18f@Nokia-N800-26>
Message-ID: <4145b6790803040934g5844b671r871e079dc245cc95@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Peter,

On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 12:25 PM, Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:
>         I'm finally at the point of transferring all my files to my new
>  notebook. The old one is a T30 Thinkpad running opensuse 10.3 and the
>  new one is a T61 Thinkpad running opensuse 10.3. Can I simply use scp
>  to copy the entire /home?

You could, although as others have mentioned, rsync is probably a
better tool for the task.

> Or are there files in /home that would be
> specific to the hardware/operating system it's on?

Shouldn't be.  But it might be worth testing if you do esoteric work
with your laptop.

Some questions:

1) How big is /home on the T30?  df -hT /home
2) How big is /home on the T60?  df -hT /home
3) How do you plan to connect the two drives?  Ether network, wifi,
USB, Firewire, other?

Regards,
- Robert


From starline at wideopenwest.com  Tue Mar  4 17:38:42 2008
From: starline at wideopenwest.com (Bob Dion)
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 17:38:42 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Lou Novak asked us to send you this post from Engadget
In-Reply-To: <47CD7B56.1010504@arb.net>
References: <200803032200.m23M0OQJ014323@acblogs-lm103.websys.aol.com>	<b02c40e90803031511g39b509c7ne732bd31b57fb10e@mail.gmail.com>	<47CD5429.2090807@wideopenwest.com>
	<47CD7B56.1010504@arb.net>
Message-ID: <47CDCF72.9080707@wideopenwest.com>

Dave Arbogast wrote:
> 
> Bob Dion wrote:
> 
>> Jeff Hanson wrote:
>>  
>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 5:00 PM,  <lnovak1 at ford.com> wrote:
>>>    
>>>
>>>>                 [4]Microsoft speculates on ad-supported Sync
>>>>      
>>>>
>>> I can see the potential in it.  The ECU could signal Sync that the
>>> engine efficiency is lower than normal.  Sync could then suggest
>>> solutions the driver can select from like "Gummout Anti-Virus for
>>> ECUs".
>>>    
>>>
>> and here's an interesting article that showed up in the free press a 
>> couple weeks ago. Looks like MS up to their old tricks again, make 
>> someone else's system malfunction so they can replace it with their own.
>>
>> Sync, navigation a bad match
>> Together they make iPod play frustrating
>>
>> http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080217/COL14/802170637/
>>
>> BD
>> ______________
>>
> Notice the FreePress slurping a little info from you? Twice that page 
> attempts to send data back a couple of times?
> 
> http://gcirm.dmp.gcion.com/RealMedia/ads/
> http://js.revsci.net/gateway/gw.js?csid=J06575
> 
> -dave


How did you detect this?

I have ad blocker on so I didn't see the ads and I don't except cookies 
from third party servers.

BD


From mdlug3 at arb.net  Tue Mar  4 17:55:33 2008
From: mdlug3 at arb.net (Dave Arbogast)
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 17:55:33 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Lou Novak asked us to send you this post from Engadget
In-Reply-To: <47CDCF72.9080707@wideopenwest.com>
References: <200803032200.m23M0OQJ014323@acblogs-lm103.websys.aol.com>	<b02c40e90803031511g39b509c7ne732bd31b57fb10e@mail.gmail.com>	<47CD5429.2090807@wideopenwest.com>	<47CD7B56.1010504@arb.net>
	<47CDCF72.9080707@wideopenwest.com>
Message-ID: <47CDD365.40202@arb.net>



Bob Dion wrote:

>Dave Arbogast wrote:
>  
>
>>Bob Dion wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Jeff Hanson wrote:
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 5:00 PM,  <lnovak1 at ford.com> wrote:
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>                [4]Microsoft speculates on ad-supported Sync
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>I can see the potential in it.  The ECU could signal Sync that the
>>>>engine efficiency is lower than normal.  Sync could then suggest
>>>>solutions the driver can select from like "Gummout Anti-Virus for
>>>>ECUs".
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>and here's an interesting article that showed up in the free press a 
>>>couple weeks ago. Looks like MS up to their old tricks again, make 
>>>someone else's system malfunction so they can replace it with their own.
>>>
>>>Sync, navigation a bad match
>>>Together they make iPod play frustrating
>>>
>>>http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080217/COL14/802170637/
>>>
>>>BD
>>>______________
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>Notice the FreePress slurping a little info from you? Twice that page 
>>attempts to send data back a couple of times?
>>
>>http://gcirm.dmp.gcion.com/RealMedia/ads/
>>http://js.revsci.net/gateway/gw.js?csid=J06575
>>
>>-dave
>>    
>>
>
>
>How did you detect this?
>
>I have ad blocker on so I didn't see the ads and I don't except cookies 
>from third party servers.
>
>BD
>
my browser (Mozilla/5.0) does not have the security warnings turned off. 
So when I got 2 prompts that I was about to send unencrypted 
information, when all I did was load the link you sent us, I took notice 
and poked around the source for the domain I watched loading when it 
attempted to send back information to a host other than what I requested.

-dave


From starline at wideopenwest.com  Tue Mar  4 21:01:28 2008
From: starline at wideopenwest.com (Bob Dion)
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 21:01:28 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Lou Novak asked us to send you this post from Engadget
In-Reply-To: <47CDD365.40202@arb.net>
References: <200803032200.m23M0OQJ014323@acblogs-lm103.websys.aol.com>	<b02c40e90803031511g39b509c7ne732bd31b57fb10e@mail.gmail.com>	<47CD5429.2090807@wideopenwest.com>	<47CD7B56.1010504@arb.net>	<47CDCF72.9080707@wideopenwest.com>
	<47CDD365.40202@arb.net>
Message-ID: <47CDFEF8.3050000@wideopenwest.com>

Dave Arbogast wrote:
> 
> Bob Dion wrote:
> 
>> Dave Arbogast wrote:
>>  
>>
>>> Bob Dion wrote:
>>>
>>>    
>>>
>>>> Jeff Hanson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 5:00 PM,  <lnovak1 at ford.com> wrote:
>>>>>   
>>>>>
>>>>>        
>>>>>
>>>>>>                [4]Microsoft speculates on ad-supported Sync
>>>>>>     
>>>>>>
>>>>>>          
>>>>>>
>>>>> I can see the potential in it.  The ECU could signal Sync that the
>>>>> engine efficiency is lower than normal.  Sync could then suggest
>>>>> solutions the driver can select from like "Gummout Anti-Virus for
>>>>> ECUs".
>>>>>   
>>>>>
>>>>>        
>>>>>
>>>> and here's an interesting article that showed up in the free press a 
>>>> couple weeks ago. Looks like MS up to their old tricks again, make 
>>>> someone else's system malfunction so they can replace it with their own.
>>>>
>>>> Sync, navigation a bad match
>>>> Together they make iPod play frustrating
>>>>
>>>> http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080217/COL14/802170637/
>>>>
>>>> BD
>>>> ______________
>>>>
>>>>      
>>>>
>>> Notice the FreePress slurping a little info from you? Twice that page 
>>> attempts to send data back a couple of times?
>>>
>>> http://gcirm.dmp.gcion.com/RealMedia/ads/
>>> http://js.revsci.net/gateway/gw.js?csid=J06575
>>>
>>> -dave
>>>    
>>>
>>
>> How did you detect this?
>>
>> I have ad blocker on so I didn't see the ads and I don't except cookies 
>>from third party servers.
>> BD
>>
> my browser (Mozilla/5.0) does not have the security warnings turned off. 
> So when I got 2 prompts that I was about to send unencrypted 
> information, when all I did was load the link you sent us, I took notice 
> and poked around the source for the domain I watched loading when it 
> attempted to send back information to a host other than what I requested.
> 
> -dave

Thanks for the warning.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Mar  5 18:35:20 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 18:35:20 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Athens schools promote 'open source' computing
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803051535r9dc6e53x3719e1f21d601951@mail.gmail.com>

Has everyone seen this?  Anyone here involved or know someone who is
in that district's IT dept?

----------------------------------------
LANSING ? Athens Area Schools is spreading its wisdom on the use of
open source computer technology to educators around the state.

On Tuesday, representatives from Athens gave a presentation on their
open source experience at the 2008 Governor's Education Summit in
Lansing.

http://www.battlecreekenquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080305/NEWS01/803050312/1002/NEWS01

----------------------------------------

Note the naysayer who has already pooped on it.


From amajorov at sbcglobal.net  Wed Mar  5 19:10:56 2008
From: amajorov at sbcglobal.net (allen)
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 19:10:56 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Athens schools promote 'open source' computing
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90803051535r9dc6e53x3719e1f21d601951@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e90803051535r9dc6e53x3719e1f21d601951@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47CF3690.2000901@sbcglobal.net>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> Has everyone seen this?  Anyone here involved or know someone who is
> in that district's IT dept?
>
> ----------------------------------------
> LANSING ? Athens Area Schools is spreading its wisdom on the use of
> open source computer technology to educators around the state.
>
> On Tuesday, representatives from Athens gave a presentation on their
> open source experience at the 2008 Governor's Education Summit in
> Lansing.
>
> http://www.battlecreekenquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080305/NEWS01/803050312/1002/NEWS01
>
> ----------------------------------------
>
> Note the naysayer who has already pooped on it.
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>   
Interesting. I wonder who got the ball rolling and how many districts, 
statewide or nationwide, are also using Linux?

Allen


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Mar  5 19:21:18 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 19:21:18 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Meeting March 8?
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803051621n16b15b21h83f7597985c0ddf4@mail.gmail.com>

Topic?  Argue over the flyer?


From tesral at comcast.net  Wed Mar  5 20:32:37 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:32:37 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Meeting March 8?
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90803051621n16b15b21h83f7597985c0ddf4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e90803051621n16b15b21h83f7597985c0ddf4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47CF49B5.6090803@comcast.net>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> Topic?  Argue over the flyer?
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>   
I haven't gotten much useful in the suggestion department.  I guess I
fall back on my own meager skills.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Wed Mar  5 20:12:53 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:12:53 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Meeting March 8?
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90803051621n16b15b21h83f7597985c0ddf4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e90803051621n16b15b21h83f7597985c0ddf4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47CF4515.2030809@hotpop.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> Topic?  Argue over the flyer?

Let's make a flyer,
and then argue over the meeting topic :-)




From carl at carltm.com  Tue Mar  4 19:25:44 2008
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 19:25:44 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Position in Southfield
Message-ID: <11408.216.144.215.245.1204676744.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

A friend of mine knows of a position in Southfield for an experienced
Linux administrator.  Let me know if you're interested.

BS/BA Degree and 5-8 years experience with: RedHat Linux, Operating
System, Networking, NFS, SAN, SFTP, Oracle Applications 11i, Oracle
Database 10g, SFTP, PGP encryption, RAC, F5 Big IP experience, NetApp
Storage (volume creation/maintenance tasks) experience.

c




From gib at juno.com  Thu Mar  6 10:44:41 2008
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 15:44:41 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] Meeting March 8?
Message-ID: <20080306.104441.28620.0@webmail08.vgs.untd.com>

 
Penguicon.org options?

-- "Jeff Hanson" <jhansonxi at gmail.com> wrote:
Topic?  Argue over the flyer?
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


_____________________________________________________________
Free Information on the Best Online Banking. Click Here.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iiehKshTGzNMtqFFN3nkwsJheJIX32nRXU5JIREoMmyupbTAQ/


From mathew.enders at prodigy.net  Thu Mar  6 14:26:48 2008
From: mathew.enders at prodigy.net (Mathew Enders)
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 14:26:48 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Meeting March 8?
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90803051621n16b15b21h83f7597985c0ddf4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e90803051621n16b15b21h83f7597985c0ddf4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1204831608.6203.38.camel@laptop01>

On Wed, 2008-03-05 at 19:21 -0500, Jeff Hanson wrote:
> Topic?  Argue over the flyer?
> _______________________________________________

We have a presentation on digital photography



From driveray at ameritech.net  Fri Mar  7 02:58:27 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 02:58:27 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] MDLUG Meeting March 8
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90803051621n16b15b21h83f7597985c0ddf4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e90803051621n16b15b21h83f7597985c0ddf4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47D0F5A3.8050609@ameritech.net>

MDLUG meeting at The Gaudior Academy in Inkster this Saturday 1230p to
230p??? At Gaudior Academy 27100 Avondale Avenue Inkster MI 48141
Please park on south (street) side of building.

This month's meeting features a presentation on digital photography by
Bill Buchanan. Mr. Buchanan  <http://www.thepixelmeister.com/> is
Chairman of the Electronic Imaging Division of Detroit's Photographic
Guild <http://www.thephotoguild.org/home.htm>.

I saw Mr. Buchanan's presentation "Making Pictures as Opposed to Taking
Pictures" at the January SEMCO (South East Michigan Computer
Organization). I was impressed with the quality of the presentation, Mr.
Buchanan's knowledge of the subject, and the software agnosticism of his
presentation. He focused on camera features and functions, and
photographic techniques. When he did mention software he made it clear
that there was a wide variety of applications to choose from, and spoke
well of the GIMP.

After the (SEMCO) meeting I got one of his cards, and asked if he might
be willing to give his talk to us. After making further contact he
agreed. While not Linux specific (Mr. Buchanan currently uses an *cough*
other OS but has had some good experiences with Linux) I though that our
group would find his presentation informative, interesting, and a bit of
a change of pace.

I'm hoping for a good turn out.
See you all there
Raymond McLaughlin
President MDLUG


From otakurider at gmail.com  Fri Mar  7 11:29:24 2008
From: otakurider at gmail.com (-)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 11:29:24 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Position in Southfield
In-Reply-To: <11408.216.144.215.245.1204676744.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
References: <11408.216.144.215.245.1204676744.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <cd5131a50803070829u7d6beba6yd6d6882298acb66d@mail.gmail.com>

Looks interesting do you have any more info?

Thanks

On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 7:25 PM, Carl T. Miller <carl at carltm.com> wrote:

> A friend of mine knows of a position in Southfield for an experienced
> Linux administrator.  Let me know if you're interested.
>
> BS/BA Degree and 5-8 years experience with: RedHat Linux, Operating
> System, Networking, NFS, SAN, SFTP, Oracle Applications 11i, Oracle
> Database 10g, SFTP, PGP encryption, RAC, F5 Big IP experience, NetApp
> Storage (volume creation/maintenance tasks) experience.
>
> c
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  7 13:35:01 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 10:35:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] OpenSuse 11.0 Alpha
Message-ID: <443404.82983.qm@web37910.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Has any one installed it yet?

David C. Lane






      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ 


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Fri Mar  7 13:44:15 2008
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 12:44:15 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] OpenSuse 11.0 Alpha
In-Reply-To: <443404.82983.qm@web37910.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <443404.82983.qm@web37910.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4145b6790803071044l75411ad1w1657f78782913a6f@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 12:35 PM, David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Has any one installed it yet?

Doesn't seem to be available yet:

http://software.opensuse.org/

Or do you have a link?

Regards,
- Robert


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  7 14:44:58 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 11:44:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] OpenSuse 11.0 Alpha
Message-ID: <880201.13215.qm@web37914.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

You are right. I dont have a link. The Links dont currently work.

I'm happy to see that OpenSuse is continuing to press forward.

David 


----- Original Message ----
From: Robert Citek <robert.citek at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Friday, March 7, 2008 1:44:15 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] OpenSuse 11.0 Alpha

On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 12:35 PM, David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Has any one installed it yet?

Doesn't seem to be available yet:

http://software.opensuse.org/

Or do you have a link?

Regards,
- Robert
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug






      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  7 14:46:31 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 11:46:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] OpenSuse 11.0 Alpha
Message-ID: <692529.26732.qm@web37910.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

This is the development Ver.

http://en.opensuse.org/Development_Version


----- Original Message ----
From: Robert Citek <robert.citek at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Friday, March 7, 2008 1:44:15 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] OpenSuse 11.0 Alpha

On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 12:35 PM, David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Has any one installed it yet?

Doesn't seem to be available yet:

http://software.opensuse.org/

Or do you have a link?

Regards,
- Robert
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug






      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

From otakurider at gmail.com  Sat Mar  8 10:13:50 2008
From: otakurider at gmail.com (-)
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 10:13:50 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] missing today
Message-ID: <cd5131a50803080713v5e082bado3ed618b5d469b9a6@mail.gmail.com>

Not able to make it to meeting today.

Pat


From driveray at ameritech.net  Sun Mar  9 01:52:48 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2008 01:52:48 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Minutes of Saturday March 8 MDLUG meeting
Message-ID: <47D38940.4080706@ameritech.net>

MDLUGers:

The March 2008 meeting of MDLUG was held at The Gaudior Academy in
Inkster this afternoon Saturday 3/8. The doors opened shortly after
12:00pm, and the meeting came to "order" just before 1:00, with
President Raymond McLaughlin presiding.

A total of 10 people signed the sign-in sheet, but there were three rows
of tables, and at least 5 people per row, so actual attendance was at
least 15. Several people came in during the presentation.

This month's meeting featured a presentation on digital photography by
Bill Buchanan. Mr. Buchanan  <http://www.thepixelmeister.com/> is
president of of Detroit's Photographic Guild
<http://www.thephotoguild.org/home.htm>, as well as Chairman of the
Guild's Electronic Imaging Division. His presentation, was well received
by the group, with many questions and at least as many answers.

The Power Point version of this presentation will be posted to our web
site when it becomes available. It was largely similar to the
presentation, "Making Pictures as Opposed to Taking Pictures", that  Mr.
Buchanan gave to the January meeting of SEMCO (South East Michigan
Computer Organization). SEMCO provides a podcast of this meeting here:
<http://www.semco.org/Data/SP0801a.mp3>. Mr Buchanan's presentation
starts 44:10 into the 1:50:40 podcast, (a ~20MB file).

Additional useful links recommended by Mr Buchanan:
Digital Camera reviews:<http://dpreview.com/>
Steve's Digicams:<http://www.steves-digicams.com/>
and
Tim Grey: <http://timgrey.com/>

Other business discussed at the meeting: Garry announced that four of
the five remaining members of DCG (Downriver Computer Group, nee
Downriver Commodore Group) were in attendance, and that they had agreed
to consider their group to also be in meeting. He also announced that
DCG had revoked their dues requirements for membership, and invited all
present to join. This is part of their effort to keep their organization
running, membered, and preserve their 501(c) educational organizational
status. Additionally they have requested that an MDLUG-retro mailing
list be added to the club server. Server Admin. Raymond McLaughlin said
he would see to this in the coming month.

There was some discussion of future officer's meetings, to be discussed
among the officers and appointees.

As club Secretary Mary Tomich was not present these minutes were
prepared by the President.

Reporting
Raymond McLaughlin
President MDLUG



From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Sun Mar  9 03:49:46 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2008 03:49:46 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
Message-ID: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com>


   Level: Intermediate

Michael Stutz (stutz at dsl.org), Author, Consultant
  12 Dec 2006

Adopt 10 good habits that improve your UNIX? command line efficiency 
-- and break away from bad usage patterns in the process. This 
article takes you step-by-step through several good, but too often 
neglected, techniques for command-line operations. Learn about 
common errors and how to overcome them, so you can learn exactly why 
these UNIX habits are worth picking up.

Introduction

When you use a system often, you tend to fall into set usage 
patterns. Sometimes, you do not start the habit of doing things in 
the best possible way. Sometimes, you even pick up bad practices 
that lead to clutter and clumsiness. One of the best ways to correct 
such inadequacies is to conscientiously pick up good habits that 
counteract them. This article suggests 10 UNIX command-line habits 
worth picking up -- good habits that help you break many common 
usage foibles and make you more productive at the command line in 
the process. Each habit is described in more detail following the 
list of good habits.

<http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/aix/library/au-badunixhabits.html?ca=dgr-lnxw06tenunixtips&S_TACT=105AGX59&S_CMP=GR>




From driveray at ameritech.net  Sun Mar  9 17:23:43 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2008 17:23:43 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>    Level: Intermediate
> 
> Michael Stutz (stutz at dsl.org), Author, Consultant
>   12 Dec 2006
> 
> Adopt 10 good habits that improve your UNIX command line efficiency 
<Snip>
<http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/aix/library/au-badunixhabits.html?ca=dgr-lnxw06tenunixtips&S_TACT=105AGX59&S_CMP=GR>

This looks pretty good, but isn't quite as clear as it could be. For
instance, after introducing: the "&&" and "||"  control operators we are
given this, without explanation

  Listing 7. A combined example of good habit #3: Combining commands
with control operators
  ~ $ cd tmp/a/b/c || mkdir -p tmp/a/b/c && tar xvf -C tmp/a/b/c
~/archive.tar

So does execution stop if the cd command, or just skip the mkdir command
and move on to the tar command? I would guess the later is what would be
desired, but a sentence stating so would remove such guess work.

Also, the next listing doesn't work as advertised, at least not in BASH
on my system (OpenSuSE 10.3).

  Listing 8. Example of good habit #4: Quoting (and not quoting) a variable

  ~ $ ls tmp/
  a b
  ~ $ VAR="tmp/*"
  ~ $ echo $VAR
  tmp/a tmp/b
  ~ $ echo "$VAR"
  tmp/*
  ~ $ echo $VARa

  ~ $ echo "$VARa"

  ~ $ echo "${VAR}a"
  tmp/*a
  ~ $ echo ${VAR}a
  tmp/a

This all works the same for me, except that last one. On my system the
last two do the same thing:

  pts/1 $ echo "{$VAR}a"
  {tmp/*}a
  pts/1 $ echo {$VAR}a
  {tmp/*}a
  pts/1 $

I don't know if the author used a different shell, or has different
globbing options set, but I don't see just how that last one is even
supposed to work.

This article seems worth the read, but seems to need a little work.

Regards
Raymond McLaughlin



From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Sun Mar  9 18:06:46 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2008 18:06:46 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com> <47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <47D45F76.1040201@hotpop.com>

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>>    Level: Intermediate
>>
>> Michael Stutz (stutz at dsl.org), Author, Consultant
>>   12 Dec 2006
>>
>> Adopt 10 good habits that improve your UNIX command line efficiency 
> <Snip>
> <http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/aix/library/au-badunixhabits.html?ca=dgr-lnxw06tenunixtips&S_TACT=105AGX59&S_CMP=GR>
> 
> This looks pretty good, but isn't quite as clear as it could be. For
> instance, after introducing: the "&&" and "||"  control operators we are
> given this, without explanation
> 
>   Listing 7. A combined example of good habit #3: Combining commands
> with control operators
>   ~ $ cd tmp/a/b/c || mkdir -p tmp/a/b/c && tar xvf -C tmp/a/b/c
> ~/archive.tar




> 
> So does execution stop if the cd command, or just skip the mkdir command
> and move on to the tar command? I would guess the later is what would be
> desired, but a sentence stating so would remove such guess work.
> 


It has to do with logical shortcuts

In a logical OR expression ( || ), if the first term is true
(successful execution with no errors), then expression MUST
be true, and the second term doesn't need to be evaluated
(executed)... so it isn't.

For two commands, cmd1 and cmd2

        cmd 2
   || | T | F |
c ---+---+---+
m  T | T | T | <= cmd1 true, so expression is true.
d ---+---+---+
1  F | T | F | <= 1st cmd false, expression is indeterminate.
   ---+---+---+
so

cmd1 || _cmd2_to_run_only_if_cmd1_fails_


For
command1 || command2
read as: Do command1 OR (if you couldn't) do command2


Similarly for logical AND ( && ), if the first term is false,
the whole expression is false, and the second term doesn't
need to be evaluated (executed).

        Cmd 2
   && | T | F |
C ---+---+---+
m  T | T | F | <= 1st cmd true, expression is indeterminate.
d ---+---+---+
1  F | F | F | <= 1st cmd false,  so expression is false
   ---+---+---+

cmd1 && _cmd2_to_run_only_if_cmd1_succeeds_

for
command1 && command2
read as: do command1 AND (if successful) continue with Command2



The "ultimate" example here

cmdA && _cmdB_to_run_only_if_cmdA_fails || 
cmdC_to_run_only_if_either_cmdA_or_cmd_B_succeeds


> Also, the next listing doesn't work as advertised, at least not in BASH
> on my system (OpenSuSE 10.3).
> 
>   Listing 8. Example of good habit #4: Quoting (and not quoting) a variable
> 
>   ~ $ ls tmp/
>   a b
>   ~ $ VAR="tmp/*"
>   ~ $ echo $VAR
>   tmp/a tmp/b
>   ~ $ echo "$VAR"
>   tmp/*
>   ~ $ echo $VARa
> 
>   ~ $ echo "$VARa"
> 
>   ~ $ echo "${VAR}a"
>   tmp/*a
>   ~ $ echo ${VAR}a
>   tmp/a
> 
> This all works the same for me, except that last one. On my system the
> last two do the same thing:
> 
>   pts/1 $ echo "{$VAR}a"
>   {tmp/*}a
>   pts/1 $ echo {$VAR}a
>   {tmp/*}a
>   pts/1 $
> 
> I don't know if the author used a different shell, or has different
> globbing options set, but I don't see just how that last one is even
> supposed to work.

probably the file globbing setting.

> 
> This article seems worth the read, but seems to need a little work.
> 

Yeah, it's not quite as clear as it should be....

And the author really should have specified that some of
these things are most beneficial in shell-scripting than
for interactive use on the command line.

There's really no need for using || or &&
when using the shell on a commmand line, because you
can immediately see if the first command fails or
succeeds.

On the other hand, when giving helpful commands on a
mailing list... the && and || tools can be useful,
rather than "and if the directory isn't present, then
run mkdir...   to create it"

> Regards
> Raymond McLaughlin



From peter at petertheplumber.net  Sun Mar  9 21:55:24 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2008 21:55:24 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Transfering /home with scp
In-Reply-To: <ba6f3ba00803031852n77db3b46j1521b75995c683c0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20080303132535.0f58b18f@Nokia-N800-26>
	<ba6f3ba00803031852n77db3b46j1521b75995c683c0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1205114124.27006.4.camel@peter-notebook.site>


On Mon, 2008-03-03 at 21:52 -0500, Ein Bielaczyc wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 1:25 PM, Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:
> > Hi Everyone,
> >         I'm finally at the point of transferring all my files to my new
> >  notebook. The old one is a T30 Thinkpad running opensuse 10.3 and the
> >  new one is a T61 Thinkpad running opensuse 10.3. 

<snip>

> 
> I've had much success using rsync to transfer files. If security is a
> concern rsync can employ the use of ssh to transfer data inside a
> secure connection. If security is not a concern then I'd also
> recommend NFS, as it is fairly easy to setup, and then use rsync to
> transfer.
> 
> Just FYI, the following would sync "/home" on Old-Machine and New-Machine.
> 
> As root on Old-Machine:
>        rsync -a -e ssh /home/ root at new-machine:/home/
> 
> There are many other options with rsync to control just what is, and
> what isn't, transferred.

	Thank you all for your suggestions and advice. I ended up using the
above method along with the flags for viewing progress. Everything
worked magically and all was transferred in a matter of minutes!
Everything works as expected and I am now happily using my new laptop.

Best Regards,

-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From eaglecoach at wwnet.com  Mon Mar 10 00:41:57 2008
From: eaglecoach at wwnet.com (Robert Meier)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 00:41:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net> (message from Raymond McLaughlin
	on Sun, 09 Mar 2008 17:23:43 -0400)
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com> <47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>

Ray, Aaron,

>  ~ $ echo "${VAR}a"
>  tmp/*a
>  ~ $ echo ${VAR}a
>  tmp/a
>
> This all works the same for me, except that last one. On my system the
> last two do the same thing:
>
>  pts/1 $ echo "{$VAR}a"
>  {tmp/*}a
>  pts/1 $ echo {$VAR}a
>  {tmp/*}a
>  pts/1 $

> I don't know if the author used a different shell, or has different
> globbing options set, but I don't see just how that last one is even
> supposed to work.

The difference is the subtle difference between {$ and ${ .
The ${...} "quotes" the name inside which may have special variables, spaces,
...
{$ is treated as two separate tokens.
The { is just a character prepended to the word, and $... evaluates
the token that follows, which ends at the next space or special character.

  {$VAR}a is tokenized as '{'"$VAR"'}''a' .
  ${VAR}a is tokenized as "${VAR}"'a'



>[
> command || expression
> read as: Do command OR (if you couldn't) do expression
> command && expression
> read as: do command AND (if successful) continue with expression
>]

As Aaron's summary shows,
  || and && behave more like perl's
  unless(command) {expression} and if(command) {expression}
and less like true logical operators.



>> This article seems worth the read, but seems to need a little work.

> Yeah, it's not quite as clear as it should be....

I posted some suggestions to IBM.
I included also the conflict between xargs (hint 8)
which splits filenames with spaces and quoting (hint 4)
which maintains filenames.
I suggested using find ... | while read f; do ... "$f" ...; done
as more portable, flexible, and less error prone.

Thanks for the pointer,
-- 
Bob

  "Each problem that I solved became a rule,
   which served afterwards to solve other problems."
     -- Rene Descartes


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Mon Mar 10 01:22:45 2008
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 00:22:45 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com> <47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>
	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>
Message-ID: <4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 9, 2008 at 11:41 PM, Robert Meier <eaglecoach at wwnet.com> wrote:
>  I posted some suggestions to IBM.
>  I included also the conflict between xargs (hint 8)
>  which splits filenames with spaces and quoting (hint 4)
>  which maintains filenames.
>  I suggested using find ... | while read f; do ... "$f" ...; done
>  as more portable, flexible, and less error prone.

Alternatively, you can use the -print0 option to find and the -0
option to xargs.  Perhaps not as portable, but nevertheless useful.

As for the piping cat, I take that rule with a grain of salt.  For
instance, when I'm building up a series of command, I'll often start
with head or grep or similar to pare down date in a largefile.  Then
once I'm confident the pipeline will work, I'll substitute cat.  To
borrow the example on the page, this command:

$ head tmp/a/longfile.txt | grep and

may become this:

$ grep foo tmp/a/longfile.txt | grep and

before it becomes this:

$ cat tmp/a/longfile.txt | grep and

Another reason is that some commands generate different output when
piped vs. when used as arguments.  For example, contrast the output of
these commands:

$ cat /etc/passwd /etc/group | wc -l
$ wc -l /etc/passwd /etc/group

and these:

$ cat /etc/passwd /etc/group | grep root
$ grep root /etc/passwd /etc/group

Regards,
- Robert


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Mon Mar 10 01:52:30 2008
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 00:52:30 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <47D45F76.1040201@hotpop.com>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com> <47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>
	<47D45F76.1040201@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <4145b6790803092252w4af58dc2g75e7d605cc6c5461@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 9, 2008 at 5:06 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis3 at hotpop.com> wrote:
>  The "ultimate" example here
>
>  cmdA && _cmdB_to_run_only_if_cmdA_fails ||
>  cmdC_to_run_only_if_either_cmdA_or_cmd_B_succeeds

Did you mean to switch the operators:

cmdA || _cmdB_to_run_only_if_cmdA_fails &&
cmdC_to_run_only_if_either_cmdA_or_cmd_B_succeeds

For example:

$ true || true && echo yes
yes
$ true || false && echo yes
yes
$ false || true && echo yes
yes
$ false || false && echo yes

Or did you mean cmdC_to_run_only_if_either_cmdA_or_cmd_B_fail.

For example:

$ true && true || echo yes
$ true && false || echo yes
yes
$ false && true || echo yes
yes
$ false && false || echo yes
yes

Regards,
- Robert


From micorral at comcast.net  Mon Mar 10 03:19:16 2008
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 03:19:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com> <47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>
	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>
	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>

2008-03-10, Monsieur Robert Citek a ecrit:
> contrast the output of these commands:
>
> $ cat /etc/passwd /etc/group | grep root
> $ grep root /etc/passwd /etc/group

grep -h root /etc/passwd /etc/group

That will give the same output as the cat+pipe version.
So calling cat is unnecessary in this example, since the one grep
command does the same as two commands and a pipe.

In my experience I've found that calling cat is unnecessary about 95%
of the time.

Michael


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Mon Mar 10 03:01:01 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 03:01:01 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com>
	<47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>
	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47D4DCAD.1030706@hotpop.com>

Robert Citek wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 9, 2008 at 11:41 PM, Robert Meier <eaglecoach at wwnet.com> wrote:
>>  I posted some suggestions to IBM.
>>  I included also the conflict between xargs (hint 8)
>>  which splits filenames with spaces and quoting (hint 4)
>>  which maintains filenames.
>>  I suggested using find ... | while read f; do ... "$f" ...; done
>>  as more portable, flexible, and less error prone.
> 
> Alternatively, you can use the -print0 option to find and the -0
> option to xargs.  Perhaps not as portable, but nevertheless useful.
> 
> As for the piping cat, I take that rule with a grain of salt.  For
> instance, when I'm building up a series of command, I'll often start
> with head or grep or similar to pare down date in a largefile.  Then
> once I'm confident the pipeline will work, I'll substitute cat.  To
> borrow the example on the page, this command:
> 
> $ head tmp/a/longfile.txt | grep and
> 
> may become this:
> 
> $ grep foo tmp/a/longfile.txt | grep and
> 
> before it becomes this:
> 
> $ cat tmp/a/longfile.txt | grep and

Thats what the file redirect operator is for.

catting a single file, without flags, into a pipe
is nothing more than a waste of CPU cycles.


> 
> Another reason is that some commands generate different output when
> piped vs. when used as arguments.  For example, contrast the output of
> these commands:
> 
> $ cat /etc/passwd /etc/group | wc -l
> $ wc -l /etc/passwd /etc/group
> 
> and these:
> 
> $ cat /etc/passwd /etc/group | grep root
> $ grep root /etc/passwd /etc/group

cat (short for conCATenate files) is legitimately used
when the contents of 2 or more files need to be directed
to a pipe.

But for a single file...it's poor programming.






From robert.citek at gmail.com  Mon Mar 10 04:51:25 2008
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 03:51:25 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com> <47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>
	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>
	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <4145b6790803100151o14596023v46659d74fc842b57@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 2:19 AM, Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net> wrote:
> 2008-03-10, Monsieur Robert Citek a ecrit:
>
> > contrast the output of these commands:
>
> > $ cat /etc/passwd /etc/group | grep root
>  > $ grep root /etc/passwd /etc/group
>
>  grep -h root /etc/passwd /etc/group
>
>  That will give the same output as the cat+pipe version.
>  So calling cat is unnecessary in this example, since the one grep
>  command does the same as two commands and a pipe.

Agreed.

But my point was about not taking that rule (or any of the rules) as
dogma.  Sometimes maintaining a pattern is more important than
execution efficiency.  In many cases, I find the pattern "$prog1
$files | $prog2" easier and more consistent to work with.  So I'll use
it, regardless if $prog1 is cat or if $files expands to only one file.

Besides, if I'm worrying about execution efficiency, I should probably
be writing the program in C and not in shell.

Regards,
- Robert


From micorral at comcast.net  Mon Mar 10 05:37:22 2008
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 05:37:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <4145b6790803100151o14596023v46659d74fc842b57@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com> <47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>
	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>
	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>
	<4145b6790803100151o14596023v46659d74fc842b57@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100522570.8484@banana.sluggo.net>

2008-03-10, Monsieur Robert Citek a ecrit:
> But my point was about not taking that rule (or any of the rules) as
> dogma.  Sometimes maintaining a pattern is more important than
> execution efficiency. In many cases, I find the pattern "$prog1
> $files | $prog2" easier and more consistent to work with.  So I'll use
> it, regardless if $prog1 is cat or if $files expands to only one file.

Well, that pattern can get you into trouble. For example, do this
in bash:

x=hello
echo "goodbye" | read x
echo "${x}"

While I wouldn't make a "dogma" of not calling cat, neither would I
make a fetish of that "pattern" you like so much.

> Besides, if I'm worrying about execution efficiency, I should probably
> be writing the program in C and not in shell.

So efficiency of shell scripts doesn't matter? I think there are a lot
of sysadmins (and their bosses) who would disagree with that.

By that argument, you should write the program in assembly language,
not C. The point is, you should strive for efficiency no matter what
language is used. In the vast majority of cases, calling cat is not
efficient.

Michael


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Mon Mar 10 14:22:48 2008
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 13:22:48 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100522570.8484@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com> <47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>
	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>
	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>
	<4145b6790803100151o14596023v46659d74fc842b57@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100522570.8484@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <4145b6790803101122t3ad8b078w55e56a5d3bffacd@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 4:37 AM, Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net> wrote:
> The point is, you should strive for efficiency no matter what
> language is used. In the vast majority of cases, calling cat is not
> efficient.

OK.  In your world, execution efficiency is of utmost importance.  In
my world, it's just one of many factors to consider.  The nice thing
about Unix is that you have the choice.

Regards,
- Robert


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Mon Mar 10 03:40:36 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 03:40:36 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com>
	<47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <47D4E5F4.8090409@hotpop.com>

Michael Corral wrote:
> 2008-03-10, Monsieur Robert Citek a ecrit:
>> contrast the output of these commands:
>>
>> $ cat /etc/passwd /etc/group | grep root
>> $ grep root /etc/passwd /etc/group
> 
> grep -h root /etc/passwd /etc/group
> 
> That will give the same output as the cat+pipe version.
> So calling cat is unnecessary in this example, since the one grep
> command does the same as two commands and a pipe.
> 
> In my experience I've found that calling cat is unnecessary about 95%
> of the time.
> 

The only times cat is necessary...

1: you want the to use one of the flags of cat, such as:
    cat -n file1 | cmd
    to prepend each line with a line number.

2: Multiple files to be processed as a single input stream.

    cat file1 file2 [file3...] | cmd


For all other cases, if the command does not have the ability
to read from a file named as a command line argument, file
redirection ALWAYS works (it's set up by the shell)


$ cat file | cmd1 [flags and args here] | cmd2

is better done as

$ cmd [flags and args here] < file | cmd2

and you can EVEN do this

$ < file cmd1 [flags and args here] | cmd2


Anything else is Gratuitous Use of cat -- 5 yard penalty.




From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Mon Mar 10 14:54:54 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:54:54 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <4145b6790803100151o14596023v46659d74fc842b57@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com>
	<47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>
	<4145b6790803100151o14596023v46659d74fc842b57@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47D583FE.8020800@hotpop.com>

Robert Citek wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 2:19 AM, Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net> wrote:
>> 2008-03-10, Monsieur Robert Citek a ecrit:
>>
>>> contrast the output of these commands:
>>> $ cat /etc/passwd /etc/group | grep root
>>  > $ grep root /etc/passwd /etc/group
>>
>>  grep -h root /etc/passwd /etc/group
>>
>>  That will give the same output as the cat+pipe version.
>>  So calling cat is unnecessary in this example, since the one grep
>>  command does the same as two commands and a pipe.
> 
> Agreed.
> 
> But my point was about not taking that rule (or any of the rules) as
> dogma.
 >  Sometimes maintaining a pattern is more important than
> execution efficiency.  In many cases, I find the pattern "$prog1
> $files | $prog2" easier and more consistent to work with.  So I'll use
> it, regardless if $prog1 is cat or if $files expands to only one file.

That's small-minded.

Using
  $ cat file | command -flags | command2
to accomplish
  $ command -flags < file | command2
is just ludicrous.

And if it's that hard to read, then do it like this:
$ <file command -flags | command2


You write a shell script to do some task...

And then someone else writes a shell-script, which has a giant
for loop and calls your script in their script....

It's ridiculous cpu cycle waste...
An unnecessary fork() + exec()... all for the purpose of
reading a file, and moving the bytes from one buffer to
another to another, when the same thing can be accomplished
by simply using the facility which was specifically designed
to do that with far less over-head: namely file redirection.

> 
> Besides, if I'm worrying about execution efficiency, I should probably
> be writing the program in C and not in shell.

You never know how your code is going to be re-used by someone else.
Introducing NEEDLESS inefficiency is silly.

And there's not always an advantage to writing in C.
For one, you have to debug whatever you're doing, whereas
the building blocks of a shell-script consist of
well-debugged code.

Replicating an AWK or SED expression in C is not always
a trivial matter.




From cvweiss at gmail.com  Mon Mar 10 20:56:32 2008
From: cvweiss at gmail.com (Clinton V. Weiss)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:56:32 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <47D4E5F4.8090409@hotpop.com>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com>	<47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>
	<47D4E5F4.8090409@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <47D5D8C0.2060407@gmail.com>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> Michael Corral wrote:
>   
>> 2008-03-10, Monsieur Robert Citek a ecrit:
>>     
>>> contrast the output of these commands:
>>>
>>> $ cat /etc/passwd /etc/group | grep root
>>> $ grep root /etc/passwd /etc/group
>>>       
>> grep -h root /etc/passwd /etc/group
>>
>> That will give the same output as the cat+pipe version.
>> So calling cat is unnecessary in this example, since the one grep
>> command does the same as two commands and a pipe.
>>
>> In my experience I've found that calling cat is unnecessary about 95%
>> of the time.
>>
>>     
>
> The only times cat is necessary...
>
> 1: you want the to use one of the flags of cat, such as:
>     cat -n file1 | cmd
>     to prepend each line with a line number.
>
> 2: Multiple files to be processed as a single input stream.
>
>     cat file1 file2 [file3...] | cmd

3. I want to quickly read the contents of the file.

Clinton =)


From treii28 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 10 22:23:48 2008
From: treii28 at yahoo.com (Scott Webster Wood)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:23:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
Message-ID: <178268.81497.qm@web38015.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

And learning to use awk/sed well is silly when there's perl.

SW

----- Original Message ----
From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis3 at hotpop.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>

And there's not always an advantage to writing in C.
For one, you have to debug whatever you're doing, whereas
the building blocks of a shell-script consist of
well-debugged code.

Replicating an AWK or SED expression in C is not always
a trivial matter.


_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug





      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Tue Mar 11 07:12:40 2008
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 06:12:40 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <47D583FE.8020800@hotpop.com>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com> <47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>
	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>
	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>
	<4145b6790803100151o14596023v46659d74fc842b57@mail.gmail.com>
	<47D583FE.8020800@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <4145b6790803110412o13b8b92ei8eae05fe8e113f02@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 1:54 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis3 at hotpop.com> wrote:
>  You write a shell script to do some task...
>
>  And then someone else writes a shell-script, which has a giant
>  for loop and calls your script in their script....
>
>  It's ridiculous cpu cycle waste...

Figured I'd try to replicate the authors work

$ yes and | head -20000000 > tmp/a/longfile.txt

$ time grep -c and tmp/a/longfile.txt
20000000

real    0m2.142s
user    0m1.340s
sys     0m0.036s

$ time cat tmp/a/longfile.txt | grep -c and
20000000

real    0m1.383s
user    0m1.344s
sys     0m0.108s

$ yes and | head -2 > tmp/a/longfile.txt

$ time grep -c and tmp/a/longfile.txt
2

real    0m0.004s
user    0m0.004s
sys     0m0.000s

$ time cat tmp/a/longfile.txt | grep -c and
2

real    0m0.005s
user    0m0.008s
sys     0m0.000s

$ yes and | head -200000000 > tmp/a/longfile.txt

$ time grep -c and tmp/a/longfile.txt
200000000

real    0m24.169s
user    0m13.549s
sys     0m0.576s

$ time cat tmp/a/longfile.txt | grep -c and
200000000

real    0m20.297s
user    0m12.769s
sys     0m1.352s

20 million records, about 2 seconds.
2 records, about 5 milliseconds
200 million records, 25 seconds.

Most of my work is well under 200 million records.

BTW, this is my laptop running Ubuntu 7.10 with dual 2GHz cpus and 1
GB RAM.  Not a screamer by any stretch.

Regards,
- Robert


From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Tue Mar 11 08:37:00 2008
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Robert Meier)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 08:37:00 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <4145b6790803110412o13b8b92ei8eae05fe8e113f02@mail.gmail.com>
	(robert.citek@gmail.com)
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com> <47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>
	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>
	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>
	<4145b6790803100151o14596023v46659d74fc842b57@mail.gmail.com>
	<47D583FE.8020800@hotpop.com>
	<4145b6790803110412o13b8b92ei8eae05fe8e113f02@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080311123700.4FDBA127D3C@starfox.local>

Robert,

Good experiment.
> [
> $ yes and | head -$COUNT > tmp/a/longfile.txt
> ]

> [
> COUNT             2          20M       200M
>                            
> real(cat)         0m0.005s  -0m1.383s  -0m20.297s
> real(inline)     -0m0.004s   0m2.142s   0m24.169s

> user(cat)         0m0.008s   0m1.344s  -0m12.769s
> user(inline)     -0m0.004s  -0m1.340s   0m13.549s

> sys(cat)          0m0.000s   0m0.108s   0m1.352s
> sys(inline)       0m0.000s  -0m0.036s  -0m0.576s
> ...
> laptop running Ubuntu 7.10 with dual 2GHz cpus and 1GB RAM ...
> ]

Duplicated on my Dell Latitude, SuSE-10.1, single PentiumIII 850MHz, 256M RAM.

for COUNT in 2 20000000 200000000
do
  yes and | head -$COUNT > /local/tmp/a/longfile.txt
  time -p cat /local/tmp/a/longfile.txt | grep -c and
  time -p grep -c and /local/tmp/a/longfile.txt
  time -p < /local/tmp/a/longfile.txt grep -c and
done
2
real 0.00
user 0.00
sys 0.00
2
real 0.00
user 0.00
sys 0.00
2
real 0.00
user 0.00
sys 0.00
20000000
real 7.39
user 6.58
sys 0.43
20000000
real 6.71
user 6.41
sys 0.21
20000000
real 7.17
user 6.47
sys 0.30
200000000
real 76.21
user 64.78
sys 4.78
200000000
real 72.08
user 64.75
sys 2.67
200000000
real 68.81
user 64.16
sys 2.66

COUNT             2          20M       200M
                           
real(cat)         0.00       7.39      76.21
real(inline)      0.00      -6.71      72.08
real(redirect)    0.00       7.17     -68.81

user(cat)         0.00       6.58      64.78
user(inline)      0.00      -6.41      64.75
user(redirect)    0.00       6.47     -64.16

sys(cat)          0.00       0.43       4.78
sys(inline)       0.00      -0.21       2.67
sys(redirect)     0.00       0.30      -2.66

Mileage varies,
but in these two experiments,
not by more than 10%(of real) real, 3%(of real) user, 3%(of real) sys

Reporting,
-- 
Bob

  "The liberties of our country are worth defending at all hazards. We have
   received them from our worthy ancestors; they purchased them for us with
   toil, treasure and blood. It will bring an everlasting infamy on the
   present generation, enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them to be
   wrested from us...or be cheated out of them by the artifices of false and
   designing men."
	     -- Samuel Adams, 1771.



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Tue Mar 11 09:58:50 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 09:58:50 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Well, shucks - motherboard/CPU advice needed
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E03716549E@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

My main linux box is officially toast. Probably literally, something critical
overheated in there, it seems. It won't boot anymore, with two cpus or either
CPU alone. At this point it wouldn't be cost-effective to replace either the
motherboard or the CPUs by themselves... and if I'm replacing both I might as
well go whole hog and replace the guts with something new.

 Here's the problem. I have to do this as cheaply as feasible, and for that I
want to re-use my existing hardware insofar as possible. Unfortunately, this
puts certain constraints on what I can pick, since it's slightly older tech.

 The main issue is that it's PATA - in other words, ribbon cable IDE for the
drives. I have two 120GB hard drives, a DVD-ROM drive, and a DVD-RW drive. I
could lose the extra DVD drive, but I've gotta have the disks and the burner.
It's got an AGP video card, but any onboard Nvidia chipset these days would be
better than the card I have, so I'm not *too* worried about that.

 I need firewire to pull data off our camcorder, either built onto the
motherboard or else a PCI slot so I can put in my existing firewire card. I
also have a SoundBlaster Live that I want to keep using - it's pretty good at
sound capture and I doubt if onboard sound would do as well.

 To sum up:

 Gotta have:
   - at least one parallel ATA hookup, ideally two
   - firewire or PCI slot
   - AGP slot or onboard NVIDIA graphics

 Strongly desired:
   - SBLive audio, either built-in or another PCI slot
   - PCI Express slot for upgradable video later

 I'd like a dual-core or better CPU, and if I could re-use the RAM I have
that'd be nice. (I think it's PC2100 ECC RAM.) But RAM's pretty cheap now,
I've heard.

 Anyway, any advice? Places to look, exceptional deals right now, etc?

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                              (313) 227-2317

 "There is a fine line between being on to something and on something."
                          -Friar Broccoli
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From xstep64 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 11 11:13:44 2008
From: xstep64 at gmail.com (Mike)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 11:13:44 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Linux Foundation
Message-ID: <1205248424.7390.6.camel@xstep-desktop>

The Linux Foundation is looking for a new community manager.  I would
love that position but I really don't think anyone outside of the
working groups have a chance.  Wouldn't the job be offered to someone
within the foundation?

I guess anyone of us could send a resume and cross some fingers?



From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 11 11:16:30 2008
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 11:16:30 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Well, shucks - motherboard/CPU advice needed
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E03716549E@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E03716549E@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380803110816u5068087mec9340400e6cfd5a@mail.gmail.com>

--- Raymond Ingles wrote:

> My main linux box is officially toast.
>   The main issue is that it's PATA - in other words, ribbon cable IDE for the
>  drives. I have two 120GB hard drives, a DVD-ROM drive, and a DVD-RW drive. I
>  could lose the extra DVD drive, but I've gotta have the disks and the burner.
>  It's got an AGP video card, but any onboard Nvidia chipset these days would be
>  better than the card I have, so I'm not *too* worried about that.
>
>   I need firewire to pull data off our camcorder, either built onto the
>  motherboard or else a PCI slot so I can put in my existing firewire card. I
>  also have a SoundBlaster Live that I want to keep using - it's pretty good at
>  sound capture and I doubt if onboard sound would do as well.
>   Gotta have:
>    - at least one parallel ATA hookup, ideally two
>    - FireWire or PCI slot
>    - AGP slot or on-board nVidia graphics
>
>   Strongly desired:
>    - SBLive audio, either built-in or another PCI slot
>    - PCI Express slot for upgradeable video later.

You're not going to be able to re-use your DDR RAM -- new MBs use DDR2
-- but in all other respects, you should be OK.  Many current MBs have
a mix of PCI and PCI Express slots, as well as two ATA headers to go
along with the SATA interface.

There are a variety of MBs available at Micro Center that should fill
your needs.  Something like this:
<http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0259059>

You could put in a SATA-in/ATA-out adapter on the burner to gain that
extra interface free.  I, too, like having both a DVD-ROM and a DVD
burner in my systems:
<http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0266720>

~~ Mikey


From tesral at comcast.net  Tue Mar 11 11:18:41 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 11:18:41 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Well, shucks - motherboard/CPU advice needed
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E03716549E@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E03716549E@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <47D6A2D1.9020105@comcast.net>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>  Gotta have:
>    - at least one parallel ATA hookup, ideally two
>    - firewire or PCI slot
>    - AGP slot or onboard NVIDIA graphics
>
>  Strongly desired:
>    - SBLive audio, either built-in or another PCI slot
>    - PCI Express slot for upgradable video later
>   
Ray if you need it I have an extra PCI ATA 133 card.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From mathew.enders at prodigy.net  Tue Mar 11 11:47:44 2008
From: mathew.enders at prodigy.net (Mathew Enders)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 11:47:44 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <4145b6790803110412o13b8b92ei8eae05fe8e113f02@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com> <47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>
	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>
	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>
	<4145b6790803100151o14596023v46659d74fc842b57@mail.gmail.com>
	<47D583FE.8020800@hotpop.com>
	<4145b6790803110412o13b8b92ei8eae05fe8e113f02@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1205250464.5851.17.camel@laptop01>

On Tue, 2008-03-11 at 06:12 -0500, Robert Citek wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 1:54 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis3 at hotpop.com> wrote:
> >  <SNIP>
> 
> BTW, this is my laptop running Ubuntu 7.10 with dual 2GHz cpus and 1
> GB RAM.  Not a screamer by any stretch.

My laptop is a 500Mhz Celeron with 512MB of ram so screamer would be a
relative term



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Tue Mar 11 13:01:36 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 13:01:36 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Well, shucks - motherboard/CPU advice needed
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380803110816u5068087mec9340400e6cfd5a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E03716549F@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Michael Rudas

> There are a variety of MBs available at Micro Center that should fill
> your needs.  Something like this:
> <http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0259059>

 That looks pretty reasonable indeed, though there's one sticking point:

> You could put in a SATA-in/ATA-out adapter on the burner to gain that extra
> interface free.  I, too, like having both a DVD-ROM and a DVD burner in my systems:
> <http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0266720>

 Just so I'm clear: would that adapter allow me to hook up two drives to one
SATA plug? I mean, technically I have four drives, two HDs and two DVD drives.
The one onboard IDE header will support two of those drives.

 Would that adapter allow me to hook up two more drives, or do I need
one adapter per drive? As I said, I can live without the other DVD drive,
but it'd be nice to have... if not, I could take Garry up on his offer of a
PCI IDE controller, but I'd have to give up the SBLive (only two PCI slots
on that board).

 If I got that MB, I'd probably pair it with these:
 http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0256275
 http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0253284

 CPU is midrange, but dual-core (I'd miss SMP if I didn't have it :-> ) and
the memory is maxed out (I wasn't feeling cramped in 1GB, really). Should be
adequate for my needs for some time to come.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                              (313) 227-2317

 "One man's 'magic' is another man's 'engineering'. 'Supernatural' is a
                    null word." - Robert Heinlein
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Tue Mar 11 13:12:30 2008
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 12:12:30 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <1205250464.5851.17.camel@laptop01>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com> <47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>
	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>
	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>
	<4145b6790803100151o14596023v46659d74fc842b57@mail.gmail.com>
	<47D583FE.8020800@hotpop.com>
	<4145b6790803110412o13b8b92ei8eae05fe8e113f02@mail.gmail.com>
	<1205250464.5851.17.camel@laptop01>
Message-ID: <4145b6790803111012q24a8bf6bxfbf9e223b92cf15@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 10:47 AM, Mathew Enders
<mathew.enders at prodigy.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 2008-03-11 at 06:12 -0500, Robert Citek wrote:
>  > BTW, this is my laptop running Ubuntu 7.10 with dual 2GHz cpus and 1
>  > GB RAM.  Not a screamer by any stretch.
>
>  My laptop is a 500Mhz Celeron with 512MB of ram so screamer would be a
>  relative term

Good point.  So I tried it on a different machine.

Hardware:

400 MHz Celeron
64 MB RAM
3 GB HDD

Script, slightly modified from Robert (couldn't do the 200MM because I
didn't have enough free disk space):

(
mkdir -p tmp/a/
tmpfile=tmp/a/longfile.txt
for COUNT in 2 20000000; do
  yes and | head -$COUNT > $tmpfile
  time -p grep -c and $tmpfile
  time -p < $tmpfile grep -c and
  time -p cat $tmpfile | grep -c and
done \
>& output.txt
)

Results:

2
real 0.05
user 0.02
sys 0.00
2
real 0.03
user 0.02
sys 0.00
2
real 0.06
user 0.04
sys 0.02
20000000
real 21.31
user 13.60
sys 0.78
20000000
real 19.71
user 13.40
sys 0.90
20000000
real 19.14
user 13.96
sys 1.67

Conclusion:

1) For the 95% of the time where cat+pipe is inefficient, it doesn't
matter.  So, don't worry about it.

2) Do the experiment yourself to verify the data.  Don't believe
everything you read on the internet.

3) 87.4% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

Regards,
- Robert


From micorral at comcast.net  Tue Mar 11 14:44:59 2008
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 14:44:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <4145b6790803111012q24a8bf6bxfbf9e223b92cf15@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com> <47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>
	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>
	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>
	<4145b6790803100151o14596023v46659d74fc842b57@mail.gmail.com>
	<47D583FE.8020800@hotpop.com>
	<4145b6790803110412o13b8b92ei8eae05fe8e113f02@mail.gmail.com>
	<1205250464.5851.17.camel@laptop01>
	<4145b6790803111012q24a8bf6bxfbf9e223b92cf15@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.1.00.0803111424220.2247@banana.sluggo.net>

2008-03-11, Monsieur Robert Citek a ecrit:
> (
> mkdir -p tmp/a/
> tmpfile=tmp/a/longfile.txt
> for COUNT in 2 20000000; do
>  yes and | head -$COUNT > $tmpfile
>  time -p grep -c and $tmpfile
>  time -p < $tmpfile grep -c and
>  time -p cat $tmpfile | grep -c and
> done \
>> & output.txt
> )

Here are my results (this is on an AMD X2 3700+ 2.2GHz w/1GB RAM, in
Fedora 7 with a 2.6.24.2 kernel):

$ yes and | head -20000000 > tmp/a/longfile.txt

$ time grep -c and tmp/a/longfile.txt
20000000

real    0m1.848s
user    0m1.736s
sys     0m0.053s

$ time cat tmp/a/longfile.txt | grep -c and
20000000

real    0m1.977s
user    0m1.802s
sys     0m0.104s

So the one grep beats the cat+pipe to grep.
Thank you for helping me to make my point, I appreciate it. :)

> 1) For the 95% of the time where cat+pipe is inefficient, it doesn't
> matter.  So, don't worry about it.

I recall saying that it was *unnecessary* 95% of the time, but who
said that it was *inefficient* 95% of the time? There's a difference,
you know. ;)

> 2) Do the experiment yourself to verify the data.  Don't believe
> everything you read on the internet.

Absolutely, couldn't agree more.

> 3) 87.4% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

I'd agree with that about 79.6% of the time.

Out of curioisty, I appended the string "lametest" twice to that
longfile.txt file, then grepped for "me" both ways:

$ time grep -c me tmp/a/longfile.txt
2

real    0m0.243s
user    0m0.180s
sys     0m0.045s

$ time cat tmp/a/longfile.txt | grep -c me
2

real    0m0.316s
user    0m0.196s
sys     0m0.102s

Single grep wins again.

Of course, real-world tests would be preferable.

Michael


From driveray at ameritech.net  Tue Mar 11 16:47:26 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 16:47:26 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Linux Foundation
In-Reply-To: <1205248424.7390.6.camel@xstep-desktop>
References: <1205248424.7390.6.camel@xstep-desktop>
Message-ID: <47D6EFDE.6020501@ameritech.net>

Mike wrote:
> The Linux Foundation is looking for a new community manager.  I would
> love that position but I really don't think anyone outside of the
> working groups have a chance.  Wouldn't the job be offered to someone
> within the foundation?
> 
> I guess anyone of us could send a resume and cross some fingers?


Can you post a link to an announcement of this opening?



From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Tue Mar 11 17:08:36 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 17:08:36 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <4145b6790803110412o13b8b92ei8eae05fe8e113f02@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com>
	<47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>	<4145b6790803100151o14596023v46659d74fc842b57@mail.gmail.com>	<47D583FE.8020800@hotpop.com>
	<4145b6790803110412o13b8b92ei8eae05fe8e113f02@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47D6F4D4.6060102@hotpop.com>

Robert Citek wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 1:54 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis3 at hotpop.com> wrote:
>>  You write a shell script to do some task...
>>
>>  And then someone else writes a shell-script, which has a giant
>>  for loop and calls your script in their script....
>>
>>  It's ridiculous cpu cycle waste...
> 
> Figured I'd try to replicate the authors work
> 
> $ yes and | head -20000000 > tmp/a/longfile.txt
> 
> $ time grep -c and tmp/a/longfile.txt
> 20000000
> 
> real    0m2.142s
> user    0m1.340s
> sys     0m0.036s
> 
> $ time cat tmp/a/longfile.txt | grep -c and
> 20000000
> 
> real    0m1.383s
> user    0m1.344s
> sys     0m0.108s
> 

System time went from 0.036s to 0.108s.
That's a factor of 3.



From jcbender at bendorius.com  Tue Mar 11 17:17:56 2008
From: jcbender at bendorius.com (Joseph C. Bender)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 17:17:56 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Well, shucks - motherboard/CPU advice needed
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E03716549F@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E03716549F@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <47D6F704.3070307@bendorius.com>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>> From: Michael Rudas
> 

>  Just so I'm clear: would that adapter allow me to hook up two drives to one
> SATA plug? I mean, technically I have four drives, two HDs and two DVD drives.
> The one onboard IDE header will support two of those drives.
> 
	Not generally.  Usually it's one converter, one drive.

	My thought is that if you're really wanting to keep those two disks 
around, put the SATA-IDE converters on the hard disks and run the DVD 
drives master/slave on the IDE channel.

	But if you can cough up an extra $120 or so, just get a pair of 160GB 
SATA drives and be done with it.  If you're not getting a motherboard 
these days that doesn't have at least 4 SATA ports on it, you're wasting 
your money.


From xstep64 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 11 17:32:56 2008
From: xstep64 at gmail.com (Mike)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 17:32:56 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Linux Foundation/link
In-Reply-To: <47D6EFDE.6020501@ameritech.net>
References: <1205248424.7390.6.camel@xstep-desktop>
	<47D6EFDE.6020501@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <1205271176.7390.10.camel@xstep-desktop>

http://www.linux-foundation.org/en/Jobs#Linux_Foundation_Community_Manager

On Tue, 2008-03-11 at 16:47 -0400, Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Mike wrote:
> > The Linux Foundation is looking for a new community manager.  I would
> > love that position but I really don't think anyone outside of the
> > working groups have a chance.  Wouldn't the job be offered to someone
> > within the foundation?
> > 
> > I guess anyone of us could send a resume and cross some fingers?
> 
> 
> Can you post a link to an announcement of this opening?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Tue Mar 11 00:58:04 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 00:58:04 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <178268.81497.qm@web38015.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <178268.81497.qm@web38015.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <47D6115C.8000204@hotpop.com>

Scott Webster Wood wrote:
> And learning to use awk/sed well is silly when there's perl.
> 

That depends.

akulkis at kulkix:~> ls -al /usr/bin/perl /bin/{gawk,sed}
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root  242592 2006-05-02 04:19 /bin/gawk
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root   40932 2006-04-22 21:49 /bin/sed
-rwxr-xr-x 3 root root 1160484 2006-04-22 20:38 /usr/bin/perl

George Goble used to refer to people who had really
long .cshrc, .login, or .profile files as users with
their own /vm{$USERNAME}.

(where {$USERNAME} is substituted appropriately).

On a relatively fast machine, I had a 30 line .cshrc,
which he always referred to as /vmkulkis.



[For those who don't get it... "vm" is the traditional
prefix for all Unix kernels which support virtual memory...
this goes back to at least /vmunix on 4.1 BSD, and probably
even earlier (since Unix was ported to the IBM 370 before
it as ported to the VAX-11].

> SW
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis3 at hotpop.com>
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> 
> And there's not always an advantage to writing in C.
> For one, you have to debug whatever you're doing, whereas
> the building blocks of a shell-script consist of
> well-debugged code.
> 
> Replicating an AWK or SED expression in C is not always
> a trivial matter.
> 





From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Tue Mar 11 17:34:06 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 17:34:06 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Well, shucks - motherboard/CPU advice needed
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E03716549E@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E03716549E@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <47D6FACE.7080506@hotpop.com>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
> My main linux box is officially toast. Probably literally,
 > something critical overheated in there, it seems. It won't
 > boot anymore, with two cpus or either CPU alone. At this
 > point it wouldn't be cost-effective to replace either the
> motherboard or the CPUs by themselves... and if I'm replacing
 > both I might as well go whole hog and replace the guts with
 > something new.

As long as you're buying new hardware... throw in a cheap
graphics card and try booting it again.  I've used this method
twice to revive what *seemed* to be dead MB/CPU.

For some strange reason, a dead graphics card can prevent
a system from booting.

> 
>  Here's the problem. I have to do this as cheaply as feasible,
 > and for that I want to re-use my existing hardware insofar as
 > possible. Unfortunately, this puts certain constraints on what
 > I can pick, since it's slightly older tech.
> 
>  The main issue is that it's PATA - in other words, ribbon
 > cable IDE for the drives. I have two 120GB hard drives, a
 > DVD-ROM drive, and a DVD-RW drive. I could lose the extra
 > DVD drive, but I've gotta have the disks and the burner.
 >
> It's got an AGP video card, but any onboard Nvidia chipset
 > these days would be better than the card I have, so I'm not
 > *too* worried about that.

Most modern motherboards will have only one IDE connecter.
However, Microcenter carries PATA/SATA converters, such as
these:

Attach a PATA drive to a SATA cable:
http://www.724deal.com/18-inch-ide-to-ata-interface-converter-card-727.html

Attach a SATA drive to a PATA cable:
http://www.724deal.com/parallel-pata-to-serial-sata-hard-disk-converter-643.html

> 
>  I need firewire to pull data off our camcorder, either
 > built onto the motherboard or else a PCI slot so I can put
 > in my existing firewire card. I also have a SoundBlaster
 > Live that I want to keep using - it's pretty good at sound
 > capture and I doubt if onboard sound would do as well.
> 
>  To sum up:
> 
>  Gotta have:
>    - at least one parallel ATA hookup, ideally two

Or some $8 SATA/PATA converters.

>    - firewire or PCI slot
>    - AGP slot or onboard NVIDIA graphics

AGP slots are very rare on modern motherboards.
You're going to be seeing PCI-E x16

> 
>  Strongly desired:
>    - SBLive audio, either built-in or another PCI slot
>    - PCI Express slot for upgradable video later
> 
>  I'd like a dual-core or better CPU, and if I could re-use

Dual core Athlons are reasonably priced. (AM2 slot)
If you get a motherboard labelled AM2+, you can later
upgrade to a quad-core Phenom when the prices drop to
reasonable levels.


 > the RAM I have that'd be nice. (I think it's PC2100 ECC RAM.)
 > But RAM's pretty cheap now, I've heard.

DDR2 is Ridiculously cheap -- like $30/GB

> 
>  Anyway, any advice? Places to look, exceptional deals right now, etc?
> 

Microcenter always has something on sale, and I believe they still
have a sale going on some MB's.

Also, be prepared to upgrade your CPU fan to something costing
$30 or more, and or getting out a Dremel tool with some cut-off
wheels to put another fan or two blowing into the case.

I recently performed this operation on a tower I'd like to
keep instead of spending another $200 or so.  Now I have a
nice 120mm fan blowing right across all my 3.2 hard drive bays.




From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Tue Mar 11 00:46:37 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 00:46:37 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <47D5D8C0.2060407@gmail.com>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com>	<47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>	<47D4E5F4.8090409@hotpop.com>
	<47D5D8C0.2060407@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47D60EAD.8070304@hotpop.com>

Clinton V. Weiss wrote:
> Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>> Michael Corral wrote:
>>   
>>> 2008-03-10, Monsieur Robert Citek a ecrit:
>>>     
>>>> contrast the output of these commands:
>>>>
>>>> $ cat /etc/passwd /etc/group | grep root
>>>> $ grep root /etc/passwd /etc/group
>>>>       
>>> grep -h root /etc/passwd /etc/group
>>>
>>> That will give the same output as the cat+pipe version.
>>> So calling cat is unnecessary in this example, since the one grep
>>> command does the same as two commands and a pipe.
>>>
>>> In my experience I've found that calling cat is unnecessary about 95%
>>> of the time.
>>>
>>>     
>> The only times cat is necessary...
>>
>> 1: you want the to use one of the flags of cat, such as:
>>     cat -n file1 | cmd
>>     to prepend each line with a line number.
>>
>> 2: Multiple files to be processed as a single input stream.
>>
>>     cat file1 file2 [file3...] | cmd
> 
> 3. I want to quickly read the contents of the file.
> 
> Clinton =)

That would be true in 1983.
However, since then has come the invention
of both more....and less, too!

more file
or  cmd | more


less file
or  cmd | less]


(Less allows you to page backwards through piped input).




From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Tue Mar 11 18:05:12 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 18:05:12 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Well, shucks - motherboard/CPU advice needed
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E03716549F@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E03716549F@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <47D70218.6030609@hotpop.com>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>> From: Michael Rudas
> 
>> There are a variety of MBs available at Micro Center that should fill
>> your needs.  Something like this:
>> <http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0259059>
> 
>  That looks pretty reasonable indeed, though there's one sticking point:
> 
>> You could put in a SATA-in/ATA-out adapter on the burner to gain that extra
>> interface free.  I, too, like having both a DVD-ROM and a DVD burner in my systems:
>> <http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0266720>
> 
>  Just so I'm clear: would that adapter allow me to hook up two drives to one
> SATA plug?

1 SATA plug controls one SATA drive.
Typically, a modern SATA motherboard has 4 or 6 SATA plugs.

 > I mean, technically I have four drives, two HDs and two DVD drives.
> The one onboard IDE header will support two of those drives.

No, these adapter connect directly to the PATA hard drive, with
a SATA plug on the outboard side.
You would probably need 2 of them, because most decent MB's have
one IDE cable connector. (I noticed that the MB's with two IDE
connectors tend to be getting quite old in design...)

> 
>  Would that adapter allow me to hook up two more drives, or do I need
> one adapter per drive?

One adapter per drive.

 > As I said, I can live without the other DVD drive,
> but it'd be nice to have... if not, I could take Garry up on his offer of a
> PCI IDE controller, but I'd have to give up the SBLive (only two PCI slots
> on that board).
> 
>  If I got that MB, I'd probably pair it with these:
>  http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0256275
>  http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0253284
> 
>  CPU is midrange, but dual-core (I'd miss SMP if I didn't have it :-> ) and
> the memory is maxed out (I wasn't feeling cramped in 1GB, really). Should be
> adequate for my needs for some time to come.

I recently purchased this, with the intention of it having a 5 year 
lifespan (I can upgrade to Phenom, and it has a 16 GB memory capacity):

http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0278565

http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0278566



Both have
Socket AM2+ (Sempron/Athlon 65/Athlon 64x2/Athlon 64 FX/PHENOM FX)
Mem capacity:		16 GB
Sound:		Realtek ALC889A High Definition CODEC Audio Chipset
		with connectors to support stereo and SPDIFF for 7.1
Ethernet:		10/100/1000
Graphics slots:		(2) PCI-express 2.0 x16 with ATI Crossfire
PCI-express x1:		3 slots
PCI:			(2) 32-bit PCI bus mastering slots.		Other connectors:	More 
than you could possibly want,
			with ample USB 2.0
Other Internal connectors: More internal headrs than I know
			what to do with, with every interface I've
			heard of in the last 10 years present
			(except SCSI).

Primary differences:
				SATA	ATA Crossfire
                                 plugs	support
GA-MA790FX-DS5 AM2+	$209     6     	16x
GA-MA790X-DS4 AM2+	$109     4	8x



I opted for the DS5 (more disk drive connectors is always good!)

The price is probably higher than what you're looking for,
but in return, you've got a board which shouldn't become
obsolescent for quite some time.

This is the first time I've purchased a motherboard costing
more than $100... and frankly, it's because I look at it
this way... I could spend $100 less, but then in 3 years,
when the price of Quad-cores drop, I would have to go out
and buy ANOTHER motherboard, go through all the hassle
of swapping motherboards again...blah blah blah.
So I spent a few extra dollars now, so that when the price
of the Phenom drops, I can just pop off the fan, swap the
CPU, replace the fan, and re-boot.




From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Tue Mar 11 18:07:49 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 18:07:49 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Linux Foundation
In-Reply-To: <1205248424.7390.6.camel@xstep-desktop>
References: <1205248424.7390.6.camel@xstep-desktop>
Message-ID: <47D702B5.5060109@hotpop.com>

Mike wrote:
> The Linux Foundation is looking for a new community manager.  I would
> love that position but I really don't think anyone outside of the
> working groups have a chance.  Wouldn't the job be offered to someone
> within the foundation?

If they've made it public outside the foundation, then the odds
are that they aren't restricting their search to people within
the foundation.

> 
> I guess anyone of us could send a resume and cross some fingers?

Why not?

What are they gonna do -- put an IED in your driveway for
sending in a resume?




From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Tue Mar 11 21:27:18 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 21:27:18 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <47D6F4D4.6060102@hotpop.com>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com>	<47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>	<4145b6790803100151o14596023v46659d74fc842b57@mail.gmail.com>	<47D583FE.8020800@hotpop.com>	<4145b6790803110412o13b8b92ei8eae05fe8e113f02@mail.gmail.com>
	<47D6F4D4.6060102@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <47D73176.60408@hotpop.com>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> Robert Citek wrote:
>> On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 1:54 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis3 at hotpop.com> wrote:
>>>  You write a shell script to do some task...
>>>
>>>  And then someone else writes a shell-script, which has a giant
>>>  for loop and calls your script in their script....
>>>
>>>  It's ridiculous cpu cycle waste...
>> Figured I'd try to replicate the authors work
>>
>> $ yes and | head -20000000 > tmp/a/longfile.txt
>>
>> $ time grep -c and tmp/a/longfile.txt
>> 20000000
>>
>> real    0m2.142s
>> user    0m1.340s
>> sys     0m0.036s
>>
>> $ time cat tmp/a/longfile.txt | grep -c and
>> 20000000
>>
>> real    0m1.383s
>> user    0m1.344s
>> sys     0m0.108s
>>
> 
> System time went from 0.036s to 0.108s.
> That's a factor of 3.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_strange_units_of_measurement#Light-nanosecond




From driveray at ameritech.net  Wed Mar 12 00:06:04 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 00:06:04 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <47D60EAD.8070304@hotpop.com>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com>	<47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>	<47D4E5F4.8090409@hotpop.com>	<47D5D8C0.2060407@gmail.com>
	<47D60EAD.8070304@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <47D756AC.1080504@ameritech.net>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> Clinton V. Weiss wrote:
>
>> 3. I want to quickly read the contents of the file.
>>
>> Clinton =)
> 
> That would be true in 1983.
> However, since then has come the invention
> of both more....and less, too!
> 
> more file
> or  cmd | more
> 
> 
> less file
> or  cmd | less]
> 
> 
> (Less allows you to page backwards through piped input).

How ever, a pager such as less requires you to exit before you can
continue to work, and is not suitable for piping. I use both, my choice
depending on the context, expected size of out put, and ultimate intention.

For instance, if I'm working in a graphical console with a large scroll
back buffer I might just cat a file, and scroll back and forth with my
mouse, perhaps selecting parts of the text for some copy/paste
operation. Also, the "cat file | " syntax might be less direct than the
redirect syntax, but I'm inclined to use "cat file" to see the content
of a file, and then "<Up Arrow> | ..." to avoid retyping a (possibly
long) file descriptor.

Both less and cat can be useful tools. I would give some thought to
efficiency in writing a script, but at the command line I would opt for
less typing.




From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Wed Mar 12 00:32:45 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 00:32:45 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <47D756AC.1080504@ameritech.net>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com>	<47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>	<47D4E5F4.8090409@hotpop.com>	<47D5D8C0.2060407@gmail.com>	<47D60EAD.8070304@hotpop.com>
	<47D756AC.1080504@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <47D75CED.1000701@hotpop.com>

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>> Clinton V. Weiss wrote:
>>
>>> 3. I want to quickly read the contents of the file.
>>>
>>> Clinton =)
>> That would be true in 1983.
>> However, since then has come the invention
>> of both more....and less, too!
>>
>> more file
>> or  cmd | more
>>
>>
>> less file
>> or  cmd | less]
>>
>>
>> (Less allows you to page backwards through piped input).
> 
> How ever, a pager such as less requires you to exit before you can
> continue to work, and is not suitable for piping. I use both, my choice
> depending on the context, expected size of out put, and ultimate intention.
> 

Yes.. less erases it's display from the screen before exiting,
which can be annoying when trying to refer to a man page and
build a command line... I always end up opening a second
tty window.

> For instance, if I'm working in a graphical console with a large scroll
> back buffer I might just cat a file, and scroll back and forth with my
> mouse, perhaps selecting parts of the text for some copy/paste
> operation. Also, the "cat file | " syntax might be less direct than the
> redirect syntax, but I'm inclined to use "cat file" to see the content
> of a file, and then "<Up Arrow> | ..." to avoid retyping a (possibly
> long) file descriptor.
> 
> Both less and cat can be useful tools. I would give some thought to
> efficiency in writing a script, but at the command line I would opt for
> less typing.

Ever notice that after thousands of repetitions, some
commands just seem to get typed out automatically without
even thinking about it?

For example, I'm in such a habit from years of using "more"
that if I don't pause momentarily to type "less"... I won't.

Then there's the going back and forth between BSD and SysV
style ps...

in college, I used
ps guax

most of the business world systems use System V ps...
ps -efl

Fortunately, Linux (gnu) ps recognizes both ... if
you use a -flags style, it assumes SystemV flags...
if you don't use a -, then it assumes BSD flags.






From driveray at ameritech.net  Wed Mar 12 01:01:12 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 01:01:12 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <47D75CED.1000701@hotpop.com>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com>	<47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>	<47D4E5F4.8090409@hotpop.com>	<47D5D8C0.2060407@gmail.com>	<47D60EAD.8070304@hotpop.com>	<47D756AC.1080504@ameritech.net>
	<47D75CED.1000701@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <47D76398.7080105@ameritech.net>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
>>
>> How ever, a pager such as less requires you to exit before you can
>> continue to work, and is not suitable for piping. I use both, my choice
>> depending on the context, expected size of out put, and ultimate intention.
> 
> Yes.. less erases it's display from the screen before exiting,
> which can be annoying when trying to refer to a man page and
> build a command line

Some displays yes, some no. This depends on your terminal settings. It
can be over ridden with "less -X" at the command line. For man pages,
you can use "man -P less\ -X command" as desired, or put "alias man='man
-P less\ -X' " somewhere in your startup scripts.


>>... I always end up opening a second tty window.

That work too.


> Ever notice that after thousands of repetitions, some
> commands just seem to get typed out automatically without
> even thinking about it?

Along with "less -X" there's "less -S" which suppresses line folding.
Makes log files with long lines much more readable.

> For example, I'm in such a habit from years of using "more"
> that if I don't pause momentarily to type "less"... I won't.

You could set an alias for this too.



From driveray at ameritech.net  Wed Mar 12 01:13:57 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 01:13:57 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com> <47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>
	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>
Message-ID: <47D76695.609@ameritech.net>

Robert Meier wrote:
> Ray, Aaron,
> 
>>  ~ $ echo "${VAR}a"
>>  tmp/*a
>>  ~ $ echo ${VAR}a
>>  tmp/a
>>
>> This all works the same for me, except that last one. On my system the
>> last two do the same thing:
>>
>>  pts/1 $ echo "{$VAR}a"
>>  {tmp/*}a
>>  pts/1 $ echo {$VAR}a
>>  {tmp/*}a
>>  pts/1 $
> 
>> I don't know if the author used a different shell, or has different
>> globbing options set, but I don't see just how that last one is even
>> supposed to work.
> 
> The difference is the subtle difference between {$ and ${ .
> The ${...} "quotes" the name inside which may have special variables, spaces,

As they say say in Springfield "Duoh!" It was right there, and I didn't
see it.


> {$ is treated as two separate tokens.
> The { is just a character prepended to the word, and $... evaluates
> the token that follows, which ends at the next space or special character.
> 
>   {$VAR}a is tokenized as '{'"$VAR"'}''a' .
>   ${VAR}a is tokenized as "${VAR}"'a'

Yes, thanks for clarifying.

>>> This article seems worth the read, but seems to need a little work.
> 
>> Yeah, it's not quite as clear as it should be....
> 
> I posted some suggestions to IBM.
> I included also the conflict between xargs (hint 8)
> which splits filenames with spaces and quoting (hint 4)
> which maintains filenames.

I'll keep an eye out for those. I haven't gotten that far yet, this
article is fairly challenging reading for me.

> I suggested using find ... | while read f; do ... "$f" ...; done
> as more portable, flexible, and less error prone.
> 
> Thanks for the pointer,




From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Wed Mar 12 02:12:42 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 02:12:42 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <47D76398.7080105@ameritech.net>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com>	<47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>	<47D4E5F4.8090409@hotpop.com>	<47D5D8C0.2060407@gmail.com>	<47D60EAD.8070304@hotpop.com>	<47D756AC.1080504@ameritech.net>	<47D75CED.1000701@hotpop.com>
	<47D76398.7080105@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <47D7745A.4070707@hotpop.com>

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>> Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
>>> How ever, a pager such as less requires you to exit before you can
>>> continue to work, and is not suitable for piping. I use both, my choice
>>> depending on the context, expected size of out put, and ultimate intention.
>> Yes.. less erases it's display from the screen before exiting,
>> which can be annoying when trying to refer to a man page and
>> build a command line
> 
> Some displays yes, some no. This depends on your terminal settings. It
> can be over ridden with "less -X" at the command line. For man pages,
> you can use "man -P less\ -X command" as desired, or put "alias man='man
> -P less\ -X' " somewhere in your startup scripts.
> 
> 
>>> ... I always end up opening a second tty window.
> 
> That work too.
> 
> 
>> Ever notice that after thousands of repetitions, some
>> commands just seem to get typed out automatically without
>> even thinking about it?
> 
> Along with "less -X" there's "less -S" which suppresses line folding.
> Makes log files with long lines much more readable.
> 
>> For example, I'm in such a habit from years of using "more"
>> that if I don't pause momentarily to type "less"... I won't.
> 
> You could set an alias for this too.

I used to use lots and lots of aliases when I was in college.

Then I found that in the commercial world, it can become
a pain in the neck...as you get used to having your
aliases...and then when you're working in some other
environment... poof... now you're typing things that
don't work the way you want them to (if at all)

but your man alias is one worth using...




From driveray at ameritech.net  Wed Mar 12 03:47:42 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 03:47:42 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <47D7745A.4070707@hotpop.com>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com>	<47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>	<47D4E5F4.8090409@hotpop.com>	<47D5D8C0.2060407@gmail.com>	<47D60EAD.8070304@hotpop.com>	<47D756AC.1080504@ameritech.net>	<47D75CED.1000701@hotpop.com>	<47D76398.7080105@ameritech.net>
	<47D7745A.4070707@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <47D78A9E.7090008@ameritech.net>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> 
> I used to use lots and lots of aliases when I was in college.
> 
> Then I found that in the commercial world, it can become
> a pain in the neck...as you get used to having your
> aliases...and then when you're working in some other
> environment... poof... now you're typing things that
> don't work the way you want them to (if at all)

And don't forget sometimes different shells, or regular vi instead of
vim. Working in different environments requires flexibility. It might
help to have your preferred startup files on a thumb drive, or available
over the network.

In this vein, this command:
  w3m mdlug.org/contacts/president/scripts+scraps/home/.bashrc
will send the file to standard output, but
  w3m mdlug.org/contacts/president/scripts+scraps/home/.bashrc |source -
will not source this stdout.
It seems there should be a way to do this just using pipes, but I
haven't been able to do it without writing to a local file first.
Hmmm.

> but your man alias is one worth using...


From micorral at comcast.net  Wed Mar 12 04:23:33 2008
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 04:23:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <47D78A9E.7090008@ameritech.net>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com> <47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>
	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>
	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>
	<47D4E5F4.8090409@hotpop.com>
	<47D5D8C0.2060407@gmail.com> <47D60EAD.8070304@hotpop.com>
	<47D756AC.1080504@ameritech.net> <47D75CED.1000701@hotpop.com>
	<47D76398.7080105@ameritech.net> <47D7745A.4070707@hotpop.com>
	<47D78A9E.7090008@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.1.00.0803120407170.8080@banana.sluggo.net>

2008-03-12, Monsieur Raymond McLaughlin a ecrit:
> In this vein, this command:
>  w3m mdlug.org/contacts/president/scripts+scraps/home/.bashrc
> will send the file to standard output, but
>  w3m mdlug.org/contacts/president/scripts+scraps/home/.bashrc |source -
> will not source this stdout.
> It seems there should be a way to do this just using pipes, but I
> haven't been able to do it without writing to a local file first.

See my previous post with the example of how using a pipe can sometimes
give unexpected results in bash. You could probably use coprocesses to
do the trick, but bash doesn't have those yet, IIRC (ksh93 does, though).

Even if you do my 'x=a; echo "b"|read x; echo $x' example in bash and
then in zsh, you'll see the difference.

Michael


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Wed Mar 12 04:52:46 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 04:52:46 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <47D78A9E.7090008@ameritech.net>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com>	<47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>	<47D4E5F4.8090409@hotpop.com>	<47D5D8C0.2060407@gmail.com>	<47D60EAD.8070304@hotpop.com>	<47D756AC.1080504@ameritech.net>	<47D75CED.1000701@hotpop.com>	<47D76398.7080105@ameritech.net>	<47D7745A.4070707@hotpop.com>
	<47D78A9E.7090008@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <47D799DE.1060005@hotpop.com>

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>> I used to use lots and lots of aliases when I was in college.
>>
>> Then I found that in the commercial world, it can become
>> a pain in the neck...as you get used to having your
>> aliases...and then when you're working in some other
>> environment... poof... now you're typing things that
>> don't work the way you want them to (if at all)
> 
> And don't forget sometimes different shells, or regular vi instead of
> vim. Working in different environments requires flexibility. It might
> help to have your preferred startup files on a thumb drive, or available
> over the network.
> 
> In this vein, this command:
>   w3m mdlug.org/contacts/president/scripts+scraps/home/.bashrc
> will send the file to standard output, but
>   w3m mdlug.org/contacts/president/scripts+scraps/home/.bashrc |source -
> will not source this stdout.

Can source actually accept input on stdin?

(file redirection ( < ) and piped data both show up on stdin).

> It seems there should be a way to do this just using pipes, but I
> haven't been able to do it without writing to a local file first.
> Hmmm.
> 
>> but your man alias is one worth using...



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Wed Mar 12 07:48:40 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 07:48:40 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Well, shucks - motherboard/CPU advice needed
In-Reply-To: <47D70218.6030609@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654A4@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Aaron Kulkis
> 1 SATA plug controls one SATA drive.

 Kinda what I thought. Oh, well, not a huge deal.

> The price is probably higher than what you're looking for,
> but in return, you've got a board which shouldn't become
> obsolescent for quite some time.

 Yeah, but the price is even higher than that, because with no onboard
video I'd need to pick up a PCI Express video card, too. We have four
kids, every penny counts.

 I think I'll price out what it'd take to get a MB w/onboard graphics,
and what it'd take to get a more expandable MB, and see if I can sell the
wife on the higher-priced option. :->

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                                  (313) 227-2317

 "[T]he U.S. film industry, in the midst of the worst box-office slump in
   20 years, looks for possible explanations as to why Americans are not
    flocking to movie theaters. In a totally unrelated development, The
  Adventures of Sharkboy and Lavagirl opens nationwide, to be followed in
 coming months by The Dukes of Hazzard and Deuce Bigalow, European Gigolo."
                             - Dave Barry
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Wed Mar 12 07:53:21 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 07:53:21 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Well, shucks - motherboard/CPU advice needed
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654A4@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654A5@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Ingles, Raymond

>  Yeah, but the price is even higher than that, because with no onboard
> video I'd need to pick up a PCI Express video card, too. We have four
> kids, every penny counts.

 And I just noticed the advanced MBs have a couple extra power plugs - EATX
and an extra PCIe power connector. Throw a new power supply into the mix. :-/

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                            (313) 227-2317

 Microsoft complaining about the source license used by Linux is like
       the event horizon calling the kettle black. - Adam Barr
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From tesral at comcast.net  Wed Mar 12 07:59:17 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 07:59:17 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Well, shucks - motherboard/CPU advice needed
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654A4@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654A4@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <47D7C595.3080202@comcast.net>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>  Yeah, but the price is even higher than that, because with no onboard
> video I'd need to pick up a PCI Express video card, too. We have four
> kids, every penny counts.
>
>  I think I'll price out what it'd take to get a MB w/onboard graphics,
> and what it'd take to get a more expandable MB, and see if I can sell the
> wife on the higher-priced option. :->
>   

I didn't think you could get a MB without on board video and sound these
days.  I prefer a separate video cards as the on board digs into your
system RAM for the display.  Not being a twitch gamer I don't need the
latest (Gate has a G Force 4, a bit dated these days)

BTW, if you want to haul that box over Thursday I have a few video cards
we could try and see if Aaron is right.  I also have a PSU tester. 
Hardware is us.  I might not know my way around the command line, but I
can build a box.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From tesral at comcast.net  Wed Mar 12 08:02:37 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 08:02:37 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Well, shucks - motherboard/CPU advice needed
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654A5@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654A5@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <47D7C65D.3060904@comcast.net>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>  And I just noticed the advanced MBs have a couple extra power plugs - EATX
> and an extra PCIe power connector. Throw a new power supply into the mix. :-/
>   
A better PSU us never a bad investment.  I have one box here with a 600 Watt, Gate has 500 watt and needs it.

Maestro had to have a late model PSU, it has SATA drives and needs the SATA power plug.


-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Wed Mar 12 08:15:25 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 08:15:25 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Well, shucks - motherboard/CPU advice needed
In-Reply-To: <47D7C595.3080202@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654A6@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Garry Stahl
> >  I think I'll price out what it'd take to get a MB w/onboard graphics,
> > and what it'd take to get a more expandable MB, and see if I can sell the
> > wife on the higher-priced option. :->

 Ya know, I think I can. Here's what it looks like (after rebates):

 Same CPU and memory for both:
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0253284
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0256275

 $170 total.

 Cheap MB option:
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0259059
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0266720

 $65 (MB) + 2x$20 (SATA adapters) = $105

 Expandable MB option (assuming I use the PCI IDE controller you so
generously offered):
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0278891
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0281134

 $55 (MB) + $80 (pretty *nice* video) = $135

 So, $275 for the one, $305 for the other. Now, this is after rebates and
before shipping, but even so - $30 for better performance now and *much*
better future-proofing? Should be a no-brainer.

> I prefer a separate video cards as the on board digs into your
> system RAM for the display.  Not being a twitch gamer I don't need the
> latest (Gate has a G Force 4, a bit dated these days)

 Me, too, but I was laboring under the assumption that it saved a significant
amount of cash. Doesn't look to be the case.
 
> BTW, if you want to haul that box over Thursday I have a few video cards
> we could try and see if Aaron is right.

 I've got a couple of spare AGP and PCI video cards myself, I might give
that a whirl.

> I also have a PSU tester.

 That would be quite useful, the problem is the four kids I mentioned before.
Plus my wife is recovering from surgery (she's fine, thankfully) so I've got
to be around. I honestly don't think it's the power supply, though.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                          (313) 227-2317

 "If atheism is a religion, then not collecting stamps is a hobby."
                          - Anonymous
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From driveray at ameritech.net  Wed Mar 12 15:11:29 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:11:29 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <47D799DE.1060005@hotpop.com>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com>	<47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>	<47D4E5F4.8090409@hotpop.com>	<47D5D8C0.2060407@gmail.com>	<47D60EAD.8070304@hotpop.com>	<47D756AC.1080504@ameritech.net>	<47D75CED.1000701@hotpop.com>	<47D76398.7080105@ameritech.net>	<47D7745A.4070707@hotpop.com>	<47D78A9E.7090008@ameritech.net>
	<47D799DE.1060005@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <47D82AE1.7000109@ameritech.net>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> Raymond McLaughlin wrote:

>> In this vein, this command:
>>   w3m mdlug.org/contacts/president/scripts+scraps/home/.bashrc
>> will send the file to standard output, but
>>   w3m mdlug.org/contacts/president/scripts+scraps/home/.bashrc |source -
>> will not source this stdout.
> 
> Can source actually accept input on stdin?

Maybe not.

> (file redirection ( < ) and piped data both show up on stdin).

Unless they are redirected, or piped, to anothe command. But source
doesn't seem to work that way.



From lnovak1 at ford.com  Wed Mar 12 15:57:52 2008
From: lnovak1 at ford.com (Novak, Louis (L.M.))
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:57:52 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] local data recovery service
In-Reply-To: <47D38940.4080706@ameritech.net>
References: <47D38940.4080706@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <E037466F30DD454FA3F82C941DFF92E10B4BEA83@na1fcm10.dearborn.ford.com>


Hey Folks,

Anyone have any experience or recommendations on a local data
recovery service for a failed drive?

more (or less) 'lack of backup admonishments' > /dev/null

Thanks in advance,

-- 
Louis Novak  lnovak1 at ford.com   (313)248-6788 
Ford Motor Co., IT Learning & Organizational Development
Eco-Tip: Bottled water is a waste of money and resources. Drink tap
water from a reusable container. 
Make this tip go viral, add it to your email signature.
Ask me about my Mercury Mariner Hybrid  



-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Raymond McLaughlin
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 1:53 AM
To: mdlug at mdlug.org
Subject: [mdlug] Minutes of Saturday March 8 MDLUG meeting

MDLUGers:

The March 2008 meeting of MDLUG was held at The Gaudior Academy in
Inkster this afternoon Saturday 3/8. The doors opened shortly after
12:00pm, and the meeting came to "order" just before 1:00, with
President Raymond McLaughlin presiding.

A total of 10 people signed the sign-in sheet, but there were three rows
of tables, and at least 5 people per row, so actual attendance was at
least 15. Several people came in during the presentation.

This month's meeting featured a presentation on digital photography by
Bill Buchanan. Mr. Buchanan  <http://www.thepixelmeister.com/> is
president of of Detroit's Photographic Guild
<http://www.thephotoguild.org/home.htm>, as well as Chairman of the
Guild's Electronic Imaging Division. His presentation, was well received
by the group, with many questions and at least as many answers.

The Power Point version of this presentation will be posted to our web
site when it becomes available. It was largely similar to the
presentation, "Making Pictures as Opposed to Taking Pictures", that  Mr.
Buchanan gave to the January meeting of SEMCO (South East Michigan
Computer Organization). SEMCO provides a podcast of this meeting here:
<http://www.semco.org/Data/SP0801a.mp3>. Mr Buchanan's presentation
starts 44:10 into the 1:50:40 podcast, (a ~20MB file).

Additional useful links recommended by Mr Buchanan:
Digital Camera reviews:<http://dpreview.com/>
Steve's Digicams:<http://www.steves-digicams.com/>
and
Tim Grey: <http://timgrey.com/>

Other business discussed at the meeting: Garry announced that four of
the five remaining members of DCG (Downriver Computer Group, nee
Downriver Commodore Group) were in attendance, and that they had agreed
to consider their group to also be in meeting. He also announced that
DCG had revoked their dues requirements for membership, and invited all
present to join. This is part of their effort to keep their organization
running, membered, and preserve their 501(c) educational organizational
status. Additionally they have requested that an MDLUG-retro mailing
list be added to the club server. Server Admin. Raymond McLaughlin said
he would see to this in the coming month.

There was some discussion of future officer's meetings, to be discussed
among the officers and appointees.

As club Secretary Mary Tomich was not present these minutes were
prepared by the President.

Reporting
Raymond McLaughlin
President MDLUG

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From tesral at comcast.net  Wed Mar 12 19:31:13 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 19:31:13 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] DCG Robot and Retro SIG
Message-ID: <47D867C1.6000401@comcast.net>

A last minute reminder about the Meeting at my place tomorrow.  e-mail
or call for RSVP we have limited room.  313-846-9145

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From peter at petertheplumber.net  Wed Mar 12 21:17:33 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 21:17:33 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] local data recovery service
In-Reply-To: <E037466F30DD454FA3F82C941DFF92E10B4BEA83@na1fcm10.dearborn.ford.com>
References: <47D38940.4080706@ameritech.net>
	<E037466F30DD454FA3F82C941DFF92E10B4BEA83@na1fcm10.dearborn.ford.com>
Message-ID: <1205371053.4336.15.camel@peter-notebook.site>


On Wed, 2008-03-12 at 15:57 -0400, Novak, Louis (L.M.) wrote:
> Hey Folks,
> 
> Anyone have any experience or recommendations on a local data
> recovery service for a failed drive?
> 
> more (or less) 'lack of backup admonishments' > /dev/null
> 
> Thanks in advance,

Louis,
	I'm not sure this is what you're looking for because you said service,
but here it is FWIW. If the drive is in a box with a bootable cd drive
any live cd might let you access the the files on the failed drive. From
there you can scp, rsync, cp, etc. If that doesn/t work something like
Parted Magic
<http://partedmagic.com/wiki/PartedMagic.php?n=Main.PartedMagic> has
testdisk and several other recovery tools. Possibly something like Super
Grub Disk <http://www.supergrubdisk.org/index.php>?

Good Luck

-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Wed Mar 12 22:30:14 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 22:30:14 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Regular Expressions Cheat Sheet
Message-ID: <47D891B6.4030404@hotpop.com>


<http://www.ilovejackdaniels.com/cheat-sheets/regular-expressions-cheat-sheet/>




From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Thu Mar 13 02:32:38 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 02:32:38 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Well, shucks - motherboard/CPU advice needed
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654A5@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654A5@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <47D8CA86.7020606@hotpop.com>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>> From: Ingles, Raymond
> 
>>  Yeah, but the price is even higher than that, because with no onboard
>> video I'd need to pick up a PCI Express video card, too. We have four
>> kids, every penny counts.
> 
>  And I just noticed the advanced MBs have a couple extra power plugs - EATX
> and an extra PCIe power connector. Throw a new power supply into the mix. :-/

You can buy adapters for cheap...or if you can wait until after
the weekend, I can give you a set for free.


The motherboard I mentioned can use either ATX or EATX power 
supplies.  I foolishly purchased a couple of adapters before
reading the manual which notes that they are unnecessary, as
long as my PS can put out the required power.




From painbank at gmail.com  Thu Mar 13 07:09:48 2008
From: painbank at gmail.com (Rich Elswick)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 07:09:48 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] local data recovery service
In-Reply-To: <1205371053.4336.15.camel@peter-notebook.site>
References: <47D38940.4080706@ameritech.net>
	<E037466F30DD454FA3F82C941DFF92E10B4BEA83@na1fcm10.dearborn.ford.com>
	<1205371053.4336.15.camel@peter-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <cafacd830803130409i788829e3yd86eaa0f618e66c7@mail.gmail.com>

Are you referring to actually pulling data off the bytes on the hard drive?

As you might not see the data through a normal command line terminal.

Rich

On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 9:17 PM, Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
wrote:

>
> On Wed, 2008-03-12 at 15:57 -0400, Novak, Louis (L.M.) wrote:
> > Hey Folks,
> >
> > Anyone have any experience or recommendations on a local data
> > recovery service for a failed drive?
> >
> > more (or less) 'lack of backup admonishments' > /dev/null
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
>
> Louis,
>        I'm not sure this is what you're looking for because you said
> service,
> but here it is FWIW. If the drive is in a box with a bootable cd drive
> any live cd might let you access the the files on the failed drive. From
> there you can scp, rsync, cp, etc. If that doesn/t work something like
> Parted Magic
> <http://partedmagic.com/wiki/PartedMagic.php?n=Main.PartedMagic> has
> testdisk and several other recovery tools. Possibly something like Super
> Grub Disk <http://www.supergrubdisk.org/index.php>?
>
> Good Luck
>
> --
> Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
> http://petertheplumber.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>



-- 
Rich Elswick
http://www.moyaentertainment.com

<a
href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/scacast"><img src="
http://feeds.feedburner.com/scacast.gif" style="border:0" alt="The Pain Bank
- SCA and WMA"/></a>


From wolfger at gmail.com  Thu Mar 13 08:27:18 2008
From: wolfger at gmail.com (Wolfger)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 08:27:18 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Regular Expressions Cheat Sheet
In-Reply-To: <47D891B6.4030404@hotpop.com>
References: <47D891B6.4030404@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <3b00b3330803130527x4fbd2647k50202dc40e018394@mail.gmail.com>

Awesome. Thanks!

On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 10:30 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis3 at hotpop.com> wrote:
>
>  <http://www.ilovejackdaniels.com/cheat-sheets/regular-expressions-cheat-sheet/>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  mdlug mailing list
>  mdlug at mdlug.org
>  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>



-- 
Wolfger
http://wolfger.wordpress.com/
AOL IM: wolf4coyot
Yahoo!Messenger: wolfgersilberbaer


From lnovak1 at ford.com  Thu Mar 13 09:33:58 2008
From: lnovak1 at ford.com (Novak, Louis (L.M.))
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 09:33:58 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] local data recovery service
In-Reply-To: <cafacd830803130409i788829e3yd86eaa0f618e66c7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47D38940.4080706@ameritech.net><E037466F30DD454FA3F82C941DFF92E10B4BEA83@na1fcm10.dearborn.ford.com><1205371053.4336.15.camel@peter-notebook.site>
	<cafacd830803130409i788829e3yd86eaa0f618e66c7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E037466F30DD454FA3F82C941DFF92E10B4BEA88@na1fcm10.dearborn.ford.com>


More details:

Windows (sigh) won't boot. Boot reports hard disk error 7
The Dell disk utility reports read and time-out errors.

Using an Ubuntu Live CD the drive is visible but does not mount 
as a secondary drive. 

I can try the software mentioned in another post, though I was looking
for a professional service such as this one located in Livonia:
www.ineeddatarecovery.com

Anyone have any experience with them or others in the area?

Thanks in advance.

-- 
Louis Novak  lnovak1 at ford.com   (313)248-6788 
Ford Motor Co., IT Learning & Organizational Development
Eco-Tip: Bottled water is a waste of money and resources. Drink tap
water from a reusable container. 
Make this tip go viral, add it to your email signature.
Ask me about my Mercury Mariner Hybrid  



-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Rich Elswick
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 7:10 AM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] local data recovery service

Are you referring to actually pulling data off the bytes on the hard
drive?

As you might not see the data through a normal command line terminal.

Rich

On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 9:17 PM, Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
wrote:

>
> On Wed, 2008-03-12 at 15:57 -0400, Novak, Louis (L.M.) wrote:
> > Hey Folks,
> >
> > Anyone have any experience or recommendations on a local data
> > recovery service for a failed drive?
> >
> > more (or less) 'lack of backup admonishments' > /dev/null
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
>
> Louis,
>        I'm not sure this is what you're looking for because you said
> service,
> but here it is FWIW. If the drive is in a box with a bootable cd drive
> any live cd might let you access the the files on the failed drive.
From
> there you can scp, rsync, cp, etc. If that doesn/t work something like
> Parted Magic
> <http://partedmagic.com/wiki/PartedMagic.php?n=Main.PartedMagic> has
> testdisk and several other recovery tools. Possibly something like
Super
> Grub Disk <http://www.supergrubdisk.org/index.php>?
>
> Good Luck
>
> --
> Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
> http://petertheplumber.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>



-- 
Rich Elswick
http://www.moyaentertainment.com

<a
href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/scacast"><img src="
http://feeds.feedburner.com/scacast.gif" style="border:0" alt="The Pain
Bank
- SCA and WMA"/></a>
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From mathew.enders at prodigy.net  Thu Mar 13 10:51:34 2008
From: mathew.enders at prodigy.net (Mathew Enders)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 10:51:34 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT WIN XP to be OS for OLPC
Message-ID: <1205419894.5851.67.camel@laptop01>

-------- Forwarded Message --------
> > To: The WFTL LUG <wftl-lug at salmar.com>
> > Subject: [Wftl-lug] OLPC; end of the dream
> > Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:55:44 -0400
> > 
> > Hello everyone,
> > 
> > Like the subject line. Here's another. "Negroponte says Windows XP should be a
> > vailable on the XO in less than 60 days." Follow yon friendly link for a nice 
> > story about this 'interesting' development.
> > 
> >    http://tinyurl.com/2jrlg2
> > 
> > Your thoughts?
> > 
> 



From drew4096 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 13 12:44:49 2008
From: drew4096 at gmail.com (Drew)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 11:44:49 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Regular Expressions Cheat Sheet
In-Reply-To: <47D891B6.4030404@hotpop.com>
References: <47D891B6.4030404@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20080313114417.030b5a40@pop.gmail.com>

At 09:30 PM 3/12/08, Aaron Kulkis wrote:

><http://www.ilovejackdaniels.com/cheat-sheets/regular-expressions-cheat-sheet/>

Interesting host name there...

----

- Drew.



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Mar 13 12:28:51 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 12:28:51 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT WIN XP to be OS for OLPC
In-Reply-To: <1205419894.5851.67.camel@laptop01>
References: <1205419894.5851.67.camel@laptop01>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803130928o1712b391kc3c2f138216ba55b@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 10:51 AM, Mathew Enders
<mathew.enders at prodigy.net> wrote:
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>  > > To: The WFTL LUG <wftl-lug at salmar.com>
>  > > Subject: [Wftl-lug] OLPC; end of the dream
>  > > Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:55:44 -0400
>  > >
>  > > Hello everyone,
>  > >
>  > > Like the subject line. Here's another. "Negroponte says Windows XP should be a
>  > > vailable on the XO in less than 60 days." Follow yon friendly link for a nice
>  > > story about this 'interesting' development.
>  > >
>  > >    http://tinyurl.com/2jrlg2
>  > >
>  > > Your thoughts?

Any technical education involving computers needs to include realistic
training on security.  The Linux-based OLPC doesn't accommodate virus
development and anti-virus security which makes up a large portion of
the IT industry.

XP is a more familiar interface for adult users.

Clicking an exe to install an application makes for an easier
deployment method for adware which is important to the future success
of the OLPC.  Advertisement-subsidised services like Internet access
are a proven revenue model.  Just think of how many laptops could be
funded by Viagra ads?


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Mar 13 12:34:18 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 12:34:18 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] local data recovery service
In-Reply-To: <E037466F30DD454FA3F82C941DFF92E10B4BEA88@na1fcm10.dearborn.ford.com>
References: <47D38940.4080706@ameritech.net>
	<E037466F30DD454FA3F82C941DFF92E10B4BEA83@na1fcm10.dearborn.ford.com>
	<1205371053.4336.15.camel@peter-notebook.site>
	<cafacd830803130409i788829e3yd86eaa0f618e66c7@mail.gmail.com>
	<E037466F30DD454FA3F82C941DFF92E10B4BEA88@na1fcm10.dearborn.ford.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803130934o4ae39d0at862bfcd7956c17eb@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 9:33 AM, Novak, Louis (L.M.) <lnovak1 at ford.com> wrote:
>
>  More details:
>
>  Windows (sigh) won't boot. Boot reports hard disk error 7
>  The Dell disk utility reports read and time-out errors.
>
>  Using an Ubuntu Live CD the drive is visible but does not mount
>  as a secondary drive.

That would imply an electronics or motor failure.  Fixing the
electronics requires a matching PCB.  Fixing the motor requires a
clean room ($$$$$$$).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_recovery


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Thu Mar 13 03:34:43 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 03:34:43 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <47D82AE1.7000109@ameritech.net>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com>	<47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>	<47D4E5F4.8090409@hotpop.com>	<47D5D8C0.2060407@gmail.com>	<47D60EAD.8070304@hotpop.com>	<47D756AC.1080504@ameritech.net>	<47D75CED.1000701@hotpop.com>	<47D76398.7080105@ameritech.net>	<47D7745A.4070707@hotpop.com>	<47D78A9E.7090008@ameritech.net>	<47D799DE.1060005@hotpop.com>
	<47D82AE1.7000109@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <47D8D913.2030501@hotpop.com>

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>> Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> 
>>> In this vein, this command:
>>>   w3m mdlug.org/contacts/president/scripts+scraps/home/.bashrc
>>> will send the file to standard output, but
>>>   w3m mdlug.org/contacts/president/scripts+scraps/home/.bashrc |source -
>>> will not source this stdout.
>> Can source actually accept input on stdin?
> 
> Maybe not.
> 
>> (file redirection ( < ) and piped data both show up on stdin).
> 
> Unless they are redirected, or piped, to anothe command. But source
> doesn't seem to work that way.

$ TMPFILE=/tmp/$$; w3m \
mdlug.org/contacts/president/scripts+scraps/home/.bashrc \
  > ${TMPFILE} &&  source ${TMPFILE}; rm ${TMPFILE}





From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Thu Mar 13 05:18:39 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 05:18:39 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] local data recovery service
In-Reply-To: <E037466F30DD454FA3F82C941DFF92E10B4BEA83@na1fcm10.dearborn.ford.com>
References: <47D38940.4080706@ameritech.net>
	<E037466F30DD454FA3F82C941DFF92E10B4BEA83@na1fcm10.dearborn.ford.com>
Message-ID: <47D8F16F.6010207@hotpop.com>

Novak, Louis (L.M.) wrote:
> Hey Folks,
> 
> Anyone have any experience or recommendations on a local data
> recovery service for a failed drive?
> 

Have you tried dd_rescue?


> more (or less) 'lack of backup admonishments' > /dev/null
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 





From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Thu Mar 13 13:27:00 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 13:27:00 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT WIN XP to be OS for OLPC
In-Reply-To: <1205419894.5851.67.camel@laptop01>
References: <1205419894.5851.67.camel@laptop01>
Message-ID: <47D963E4.8030403@hotpop.com>

Mathew Enders wrote:
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>>> To: The WFTL LUG <wftl-lug at salmar.com>
>>> Subject: [Wftl-lug] OLPC; end of the dream
>>> Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:55:44 -0400
>>>
>>> Hello everyone,
>>>
>>> Like the subject line. Here's another. "Negroponte says Windows XP should be a
>>> vailable on the XO in less than 60 days." Follow yon friendly link for a nice 
>>> story about this 'interesting' development.
>>>
>>>    http://tinyurl.com/2jrlg2
>>>
>>> Your thoughts?

Fear in Redmond.




From treii28 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 13 14:07:01 2008
From: treii28 at yahoo.com (Scott Webster Wood)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 11:07:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] local data recovery service
Message-ID: <795996.27510.qm@web38015.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Yeah, I have a laptop drive that started 'clicking' - the process made further complex with the fact it's a laptop drive and thus the inner workings are smaller and some shops can't deal with them.  Most places quoted me prices 'starting' in the $600-1200 range and all had big disclaimers that this was just a base quote.

SW

----- Original Message ----
From: Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 11:34:18 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] local data recovery service

On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 9:33 AM, Novak, Louis (L.M.) <lnovak1 at ford.com> wrote:
>
>  More details:
>
>  Windows (sigh) won't boot. Boot reports hard disk error 7
>  The Dell disk utility reports read and time-out errors.
>
>  Using an Ubuntu Live CD the drive is visible but does not mount
>  as a secondary drive.

That would imply an electronics or motor failure.  Fixing the
electronics requires a matching PCB.  Fixing the motor requires a
clean room ($$$$$$$).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_recovery
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug





      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ 



From danno at umich.edu  Thu Mar 13 14:12:06 2008
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 14:12:06 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Well, shucks - motherboard/CPU advice needed
In-Reply-To: <47D6FACE.7080506@hotpop.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E03716549E@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<47D6FACE.7080506@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <20080313181206.GA54382@maniac.deathstar.org>

> Attach a PATA drive to a SATA cable:
> http://www.724deal.com/18-inch-ide-to-ata-interface-converter-card-727.html

this isn't actually what you describe it as, it's a converter
for a laptop hard disk to a standard sized PATA connector.
i'm sure they have the right part for a similar price to
the below.

> 
> Attach a SATA drive to a PATA cable:
> http://www.724deal.com/parallel-pata-to-serial-sata-hard-disk-converter-643.html

since ray mentioned every little bit counts, i'll suggest
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=sata+ide+adapter&category0=

which shows them for $5.50 shipped.  I've bought simliar items 
from hong kong sellers before with good results.


for motherboards, I like this board:

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131174

which has basically everything on it you might ever want, including
firewire, for $80, and is from a good manufacturer (says the guy
with the flakey-under-linux pc chips mobo and the dead epox mobo
from my previous round of purchases).  Note it has ATI graphics,
not nvidia.

or this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131172
same, except no HDMI, for $70.

or better yet,
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131172R
the no-hdmi board "open box" for $38.

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From radkins at impelind.com  Thu Mar 13 14:22:05 2008
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 14:22:05 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] local data recovery service
In-Reply-To: <795996.27510.qm@web38015.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20080313182137.26FB2C0C6@impelind.com>

	I (recently) spent roughly 3 hours lightly tapping on a laptop hard
drive as a ghosted it to a replacement laptop hard drive. The hard drive
would get "stuck" after a few moments of operation and if left idle, this
would cause the OS or whatever operation that was being performed to kick
out a fatal error message.

	The light tapping "loosened" up the drive and kept it spinning long
enough for the ghost process to play out.

	No, it wasn't fun.

	Would I do it again? If I must, then I must.

	Did it actually end up saving me time? Heck yeah, installing Windows
XP Pro from scratch, along with all the drivers, patches, applications and
then patches for those applications would have taken me nearly 5 hours.

	-Rob


> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Scott Webster Wood
> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 2:07 PM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] local data recovery service
> 
> Yeah, I have a laptop drive that started 'clicking' - the 
> process made further complex with the fact it's a laptop 
> drive and thus the inner workings are smaller and some shops 
> can't deal with them.  Most places quoted me prices 
> 'starting' in the $600-1200 range and all had big disclaimers 
> that this was just a base quote.
> 
> SW
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com>
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 11:34:18 AM
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] local data recovery service
> 
> On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 9:33 AM, Novak, Louis (L.M.) 
> <lnovak1 at ford.com> wrote:
> >
> >  More details:
> >
> >  Windows (sigh) won't boot. Boot reports hard disk error 7  
> The Dell 
> > disk utility reports read and time-out errors.
> >
> >  Using an Ubuntu Live CD the drive is visible but does not 
> mount  as a 
> > secondary drive.
> 
> That would imply an electronics or motor failure.  Fixing the 
> electronics requires a matching PCB.  Fixing the motor 
> requires a clean room ($$$$$$$).
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_recovery
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>       
> ______________________________________________________________
> ______________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 



From mdlug3 at arb.net  Thu Mar 13 14:30:48 2008
From: mdlug3 at arb.net (Dave Arbogast)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 14:30:48 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] local data recovery service
In-Reply-To: <20080313182137.26FB2C0C6@impelind.com>
References: <20080313182137.26FB2C0C6@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <47D972D8.6000601@arb.net>

When Sony sold Apple all those drives with contaminated spindle bearing 
grease, we were the warranty shop that replaced them. I thought of a 
similar technique to recover the data for the customers. Using a cable 
extender for the bus and the power, I had the drive exterior to the 
computer with the replacement drive also on the bus but another address. 
Then. holding it on the end furthest from the spindle, I would hit it 
with my hand at startup in the plane of the disk platters. Do the 
physics, the inertia of the platters closes to my other hand - the new 
pivoting point for the mass, was different from the mass of the platters 
furthest from my hand. I was able to recover all the data for all the 
drives we did after that point.

I've done the same thing on several laptops with "clicking" drives. I've 
also had a few dozen with failed PCB that replacing the PCB allowed full 
recovery. I've never had a motor fail to spin after this technique, 
heads, or servo fail, but I'm sure it happens.

-dave
Robert Adkins wrote:

>	I (recently) spent roughly 3 hours lightly tapping on a laptop hard
>drive as a ghosted it to a replacement laptop hard drive. The hard drive
>would get "stuck" after a few moments of operation and if left idle, this
>would cause the OS or whatever operation that was being performed to kick
>out a fatal error message.
>
>	The light tapping "loosened" up the drive and kept it spinning long
>enough for the ghost process to play out.
>
>	No, it wasn't fun.
>
>	Would I do it again? If I must, then I must.
>
>	Did it actually end up saving me time? Heck yeah, installing Windows
>XP Pro from scratch, along with all the drivers, patches, applications and
>then patches for those applications would have taken me nearly 5 hours.
>
>	-Rob
>
>
>  
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
>>[mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Scott Webster Wood
>>Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 2:07 PM
>>To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
>>Subject: Re: [mdlug] local data recovery service
>>
>>Yeah, I have a laptop drive that started 'clicking' - the 
>>process made further complex with the fact it's a laptop 
>>drive and thus the inner workings are smaller and some shops 
>>can't deal with them.  Most places quoted me prices 
>>'starting' in the $600-1200 range and all had big disclaimers 
>>that this was just a base quote.
>>
>>SW
>>
>>----- Original Message ----
>>From: Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com>
>>To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>>Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 11:34:18 AM
>>Subject: Re: [mdlug] local data recovery service
>>
>>On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 9:33 AM, Novak, Louis (L.M.) 
>><lnovak1 at ford.com> wrote:
>>    
>>
>>> More details:
>>>
>>> Windows (sigh) won't boot. Boot reports hard disk error 7  
>>>      
>>>
>>The Dell 
>>    
>>
>>>disk utility reports read and time-out errors.
>>>
>>> Using an Ubuntu Live CD the drive is visible but does not 
>>>      
>>>
>>mount  as a 
>>    
>>
>>>secondary drive.
>>>      
>>>
>>That would imply an electronics or motor failure.  Fixing the 
>>electronics requires a matching PCB.  Fixing the motor 
>>requires a clean room ($$$$$$$).
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_recovery
>>_______________________________________________
>>mdlug mailing list
>>mdlug at mdlug.org
>>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>      
>>______________________________________________________________
>>______________________
>>Be a better friend, newshound, and
>>know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  
>>http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ 
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>mdlug mailing list
>>mdlug at mdlug.org
>>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>>
>>    
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>  
>


From gib at juno.com  Thu Mar 13 15:39:46 2008
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 19:39:46 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] DCG Robot and Retro SIG
Message-ID: <20080313.153946.27152.0@webmail30.vgs.untd.com>

 
Details such as the time would help me.  I don't recall you address either (suppose I could look it up).  Can you email me direct if posting the address is a concern?

-- Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:
A last minute reminder about the Meeting at my place tomorrow.  e-mail
or call for RSVP we have limited room.  313-846-9145

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


_____________________________________________________________
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http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/REAK6ZpRpIqHozb7QI4rSR2ednc9cEVXTL45P61K3YSlhfePJsczvm/


From tesral at comcast.net  Thu Mar 13 17:09:01 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 17:09:01 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] DCG Robot and Retro SIG
In-Reply-To: <20080313.153946.27152.0@webmail30.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20080313.153946.27152.0@webmail30.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <47D997ED.6090504@comcast.net>

gib at juno.com wrote:
>  
> Details such as the time would help me.  I don't recall you address either (suppose I could look it up).  Can you email me direct if posting the address is a concern?
>
> -- Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:
> A last minute reminder about the Meeting at my place tomorrow.  e-mail
> or call for RSVP we have limited room.  313-846-9145
>
>   
7:00  6940 Mead Dearborn, Mi.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From relson at osagesoftware.com  Thu Mar 13 21:48:23 2008
From: relson at osagesoftware.com (David Relson)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 21:48:23 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Well, shucks - motherboard/CPU advice needed
In-Reply-To: <20080313181206.GA54382@maniac.deathstar.org>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E03716549E@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<47D6FACE.7080506@hotpop.com>
	<20080313181206.GA54382@maniac.deathstar.org>
Message-ID: <20080313214823.3b18be2b@osage.osagesoftware.com>

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 14:12:06 -0400
Dan Pritts wrote:

...[snip]...

> for motherboards, I like this board:
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131174
> 
> which has basically everything on it you might ever want, including
> firewire, for $80, and is from a good manufacturer (says the guy
> with the flakey-under-linux pc chips mobo and the dead epox mobo
> from my previous round of purchases).  Note it has ATI graphics,
> not nvidia.
> 
> or this:
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131172
> same, except no HDMI, for $70.

I'm running this board and it's working quite well.  When I got it, the
SB600's USB didn't play nice with Linux so I installed a PCI USB card.
 I don't know if the kernel has caught up to the chip, or not.

David


From codeshepherd at gmail.com  Thu Mar 13 18:53:11 2008
From: codeshepherd at gmail.com (Deepan Chakravarthy)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 04:23:11 +0530
Subject: [mdlug] mplayer full screen
Message-ID: <a803558d0803131553i182c56eh6ab46a3d91e77f5b@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
  When I play movies in my Fedora 8 system using mplayer, the movie is
rendered only in a small portion of the screen. Even with full screen
option, it does not render in full screen. How do I fix it ?

-- 
Facebook Sudoku App: http://apps.facebook.com/sudokusolver/
Sudoku Solver: http://www.sudoku-solver.net


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 14 09:52:10 2008
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 09:52:10 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Security website hacked to spread malware
Message-ID: <b67fb0380803140652y3851b80fv7b0d20ab8933edc2@mail.gmail.com>

Schadenfreude is a powerful thing...

"Security website hacked to spread malware"
<http://www.techworld.com/news/index.cfm?newsID=11718&printerfriendly=1>

The moral: when your "dog food" contains Microsoft ingredients, it's
time to switch your diet.

~~ Mikey


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Fri Mar 14 10:45:06 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:45:06 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Well, shucks - motherboard/CPU advice needed
In-Reply-To: <20080313214823.3b18be2b@osage.osagesoftware.com>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654B5@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: David Relson

> I'm running this board and it's working quite well.  When I got it, the
> SB600's USB didn't play nice with Linux so I installed a PCI USB card.
>  I don't know if the kernel has caught up to the chip, or not.

 Well, I ended up ordering the ECS A770M-A board. Cheap enough, and I just
don't trust ATI's drivers enough (yet). I can put a quad-core CPU in there
later, and the board supports up to 32GB RAM, which "ought to be enough for
anybody". :->

 The only downside I saw in reviews was that some of the chips on the
motherboard can run hot. But my case has plenty of fans (actually quite
noisy, really) so I'm not too worried about airflow. Plus, the new CPU
dissipates less heat than the two CPUs I had in there before.

 The only irritating thing is that MicroCenter took my order for memory,
and then said it was 'out of stock' and canceled that part of the order.
I ordered a different 2GB deal for about the same price, but that means
they get some extra shipping out of me. And, according to FedEx tracking,
the MB, CPU, and video card will arrive Saturday, but the memory won't
arrive until *next* Saturday, when we'll be on vacation. Oy.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                          (313) 227-2317

 "In the 1980s capitalism triumphed over communism. In the 1990s it
            triumphed over democracy." - David Korten
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Fri Mar 14 19:20:19 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 19:20:19 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] mplayer full screen
In-Reply-To: <a803558d0803131553i182c56eh6ab46a3d91e77f5b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a803558d0803131553i182c56eh6ab46a3d91e77f5b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803141620g288f641dw4fed0706fcd6a40c@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 6:53 PM, Deepan Chakravarthy
<codeshepherd at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>   When I play movies in my Fedora 8 system using mplayer, the movie is
>  rendered only in a small portion of the screen. Even with full screen
>  option, it does not render in full screen. How do I fix it ?

Try launching it from a terminal and see if there are any
display-related warnings.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Fri Mar 14 19:23:44 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 19:23:44 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Security website hacked to spread malware
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380803140652y3851b80fv7b0d20ab8933edc2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380803140652y3851b80fv7b0d20ab8933edc2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803141623i72f72c34g794b450801ba513e@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 9:52 AM, Michael Rudas <audiotech50 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Schadenfreude is a powerful thing...
>
>  "Security website hacked to spread malware"
>  <http://www.techworld.com/news/index.cfm?newsID=11718&printerfriendly=1>
>
>  The moral: when your "dog food" contains Microsoft ingredients, it's
>  time to switch your diet.

They've been to busy dealing with ClamAV:
http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.php?story=20080125135544713


From driveray at ameritech.net  Fri Mar 14 19:49:47 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 19:49:47 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] mplayer full screen
In-Reply-To: <a803558d0803131553i182c56eh6ab46a3d91e77f5b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a803558d0803131553i182c56eh6ab46a3d91e77f5b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47DB0F1B.8010007@ameritech.net>

Deepan Chakravarthy wrote:
> Hi,
>   When I play movies in my Fedora 8 system using mplayer, the movie is
> rendered only in a small portion of the screen. Even with full screen
> option, it does not render in full screen. How do I fix it ?
> 

Are you actually using mplayer (command line) or the gui extension gmlayer?

Either way you might try changing the video driver that the player is
using. In the gui program, click on the "wrench" button on the far left
of the player panel. The warning "Please remember that you need to
restart playback for some options to take effect!" is better understood
to mean you should exit and restart the player for changes to take effect.

On the video tab yu should see a list of available video drivers for
mplayer to use. My list look like this:
> xv
> x11
> gl
> gl2
> dfbmga
> xvidix
> xvmc
On my laptop I have xv selected. It works well so I don't fool with it.
Of course your mileage may vary.

Your selection of driver can affect both several things beside the "full
screen" behavior, such as the ability of screen capture programs to take
screen shot's of playing video.

I hope this helps
Raymond McLaughlin




From gib at juno.com  Fri Mar 14 22:34:07 2008
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 02:34:07 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] DCG Robot and Retro SIG
Message-ID: <20080314.223407.3705.0@webmail01.vgs.untd.com>


Missed it by that much.

Sorry I arrived a day late since I saw the note a day after you sent it.

-- Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:
A last minute reminder about the Meeting at my place tomorrow.  e-mail
or call for RSVP we have limited room.  313-846-9145

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

_____________________________________________________________
Need local Internet advertising for your business? Click Here.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iifVn1cGckdubnhJtTki9su2QwXs6BByNL54a0pZPY6epXgDC/




From gib at juno.com  Fri Mar 14 22:44:46 2008
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 02:44:46 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  DCG Robot and Retro SIG - Robots at Wayne State
Message-ID: <20080314.224446.3705.1@webmail01.vgs.untd.com>


Robots at Wayne State
Robot story:
http://www.mitechnews.com/articles.asp?Id=8406

-- Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:
A last minute reminder about the Meeting at my place tomorrow.  e-mail
or call for RSVP we have limited room.  313-846-9145

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

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From gib at juno.com  Fri Mar 14 22:47:33 2008
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 02:47:33 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] mplayer full screen
Message-ID: <20080314.224733.3705.2@webmail01.vgs.untd.com>


I started having this same problem when I put in a different video card. I'm using the command line:
mplayer filename -vo x11
But ya know, I just learned to live with it.

-- Raymond McLaughlin <driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
Deepan Chakravarthy wrote:
> Hi,
>   When I play movies in my Fedora 8 system using mplayer, the movie is
> rendered only in a small portion of the screen. Even with full screen
> option, it does not render in full screen. How do I fix it ?
> 

Are you actually using mplayer (command line) or the gui extension gmlayer?

Either way you might try changing the video driver that the player is
using. In the gui program, click on the "wrench" button on the far left
of the player panel. The warning "Please remember that you need to
restart playback for some options to take effect!" is better understood
to mean you should exit and restart the player for changes to take effect.

On the video tab yu should see a list of available video drivers for
mplayer to use. My list look like this:
> xv
> x11
> gl
> gl2
> dfbmga
> xvidix
> xvmc
On my laptop I have xv selected. It works well so I don't fool with it.
Of course your mileage may vary.

Your selection of driver can affect both several things beside the "full
screen" behavior, such as the ability of screen capture programs to take
screen shot's of playing video.

I hope this helps
Raymond McLaughlin


_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

_____________________________________________________________
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From gib at juno.com  Fri Mar 14 22:56:55 2008
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 02:56:55 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] mplayer full screen
Message-ID: <20080314.225655.6889.0@webmail07.vgs.untd.com>


Oh, hey - I tried that gmplayer.  I got an additional box displayed that includes controls like on a tape player (forward back . . .). But no wrench.

-- Raymond McLaughlin <driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
Deepan Chakravarthy wrote:
> Hi,
>   When I play movies in my Fedora 8 system using mplayer, the movie is
> rendered only in a small portion of the screen. Even with full screen
> option, it does not render in full screen. How do I fix it ?
> 

Are you actually using mplayer (command line) or the gui extension gmlayer?

Either way you might try changing the video driver that the player is
using. In the gui program, click on the "wrench" button on the far left
of the player panel. The warning "Please remember that you need to
restart playback for some options to take effect!" is better understood
to mean you should exit and restart the player for changes to take effect.

On the video tab yu should see a list of available video drivers for
mplayer to use. My list look like this:
> xv
> x11
> gl
> gl2
> dfbmga
> xvidix
> xvmc
On my laptop I have xv selected. It works well so I don't fool with it.
Of course your mileage may vary.

Your selection of driver can affect both several things beside the "full
screen" behavior, such as the ability of screen capture programs to take
screen shot's of playing video.

I hope this helps
Raymond McLaughlin


_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

_____________________________________________________________
Energy Saving Heating and Cooling Systems. Click for free information.
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From driveray at ameritech.net  Fri Mar 14 23:25:26 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 23:25:26 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] mplayer full screen
In-Reply-To: <20080314.225655.6889.0@webmail07.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20080314.225655.6889.0@webmail07.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <47DB41A6.6070505@ameritech.net>

gib at juno.com wrote:
> Oh, hey - I tried that gmplayer.  I got an additional box displayed that
> includes controls like on a tape player (forward back . . .)
> But no wrench.

There are different skins, but the the default fits your description. At
the far right is a round button with a large upright "X" which closes
the player. At the far left is a similarly situated round button with a
floating "x chromosome" looking thing. I interpret this as a double end
wrench. It opens the preferences dialog.

> I started having this same problem when I put in a different video card.
> I'm using the command line: mplayer filename -vo x11 
> But ya know, I just learned to live with it.

You could try "mplayer -vo xv" for instancem, and see how you like the
results. And if you want to avoid having to type in extra command line,
you can put you preferences in your personal config file. It's
interesting that mplayer seems to keep two config files: one for the gui
version (~/.mplayer.gui.conf) and one for the command line version
(~/.mplayer/config). This is especially funny because, on my system at
least, /usr/bin/gmplayer is a symlink to /usr/bin/mplayer!

Any clearer?





From gib at juno.com  Sat Mar 15 12:01:13 2008
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 16:01:13 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  mplayer full screen
Message-ID: <20080315.120113.8990.0@webmail24.vgs.untd.com>


Thank you Ray. Your instructions are clear I just don't have the wrench.  Also I don't have the xv driver.  Tried the xv option and I got a clear error message indicating that I should run xvinfo.  I ran xvinfo it said that I had no driver.  

I tried installing the latest driver for the video card when I installed the card.  Too much like going to the dentist (painful).  I'd need to make sure I had the right environment, compiler . . .

If I wanted this to be like work I'd come up with a plan to get the proper software.

-- Raymond McLaughlin <driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
gib at juno.com wrote:
> Oh, hey - I tried that gmplayer.  I got an additional box displayed that
> includes controls like on a tape player (forward back . . .)
> But no wrench.

There are different skins, but the the default fits your description. At
the far right is a round button with a large upright "X" which closes
the player. At the far left is a similarly situated round button with a
floating "x chromosome" looking thing. I interpret this as a double end
wrench. It opens the preferences dialog.

> I started having this same problem when I put in a different video card.
> I'm using the command line: mplayer filename -vo x11 
> But ya know, I just learned to live with it.

You could try "mplayer -vo xv" for instancem, and see how you like the
results. And if you want to avoid having to type in extra command line,
you can put you preferences in your personal config file. It's
interesting that mplayer seems to keep two config files: one for the gui
version (~/.mplayer.gui.conf) and one for the command line version
(~/.mplayer/config). This is especially funny because, on my system at
least, /usr/bin/gmplayer is a symlink to /usr/bin/mplayer!

Any clearer?



_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

_____________________________________________________________
Looking for insurance? Compare and save today. Click here.
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From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 15 14:54:46 2008
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 14:54:46 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Weather-info options
Message-ID: <b67fb0380803151154o4ca3b20fwb2af780d61aacfc5@mail.gmail.com>

This is mostly for our North American-based list members.

Severe weather is a concern this time of year.  For years, I have been
using the advertising-supported WeatherBug and an ad-free alternative,
Weather Pulse under Microsoft Windows -- but was not aware of
alternatives under Linux, so I decided to take a look at The Weather
Channel and AccuWeather.

Of course, you can always go to their respective websites to view
current conditions:
<http://www.weatherbug.com>
<http://www.accuweather.com>
<http://www.weather.com>
but that's a bit of a hassle.

Fortunately, The Weather Channel and AccuWeather both provide free
downloads and services.  For those of us that run Linux or Mac OS X,
both services provide Firefox extensions.  Since Firefox extensions
are OS-agnostic, they run fine in any environment that supports
Firefox. Both also offer a variety of toolbars and widgets for a
variety of environments.
<http://www.accuweather.com/downloadcenter.asp>
<http://www.weather.com/services/downloads/index.html>

~~ Mikey


From escalated at gmail.com  Sat Mar 15 15:09:47 2008
From: escalated at gmail.com (merc)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 15:09:47 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Weather-info options
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380803151154o4ca3b20fwb2af780d61aacfc5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380803151154o4ca3b20fwb2af780d61aacfc5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9852fbe30803151209v6a2691b4wee42dc86386868c1@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Mar 15, 2008 at 2:54 PM, Michael Rudas <audiotech50 at gmail.com> wrote:
> This is mostly for our North American-based list members.
>
>  Severe weather is a concern this time of year.  For years, I have been
>  using the advertising-supported WeatherBug and an ad-free alternative,
>  Weather Pulse under Microsoft Windows -- but was not aware of
>  alternatives under Linux, so I decided to take a look at The Weather
>  Channel and AccuWeather.
>
>  Of course, you can always go to their respective websites to view
>  current conditions:
>  <http://www.weatherbug.com>
>  <http://www.accuweather.com>
>  <http://www.weather.com>
>  but that's a bit of a hassle.
>
>  Fortunately, The Weather Channel and AccuWeather both provide free
>  downloads and services.  For those of us that run Linux or Mac OS X,
>  both services provide Firefox extensions.  Since Firefox extensions
>  are OS-agnostic, they run fine in any environment that supports
>  Firefox. Both also offer a variety of toolbars and widgets for a
>  variety of environments.
>  <http://www.accuweather.com/downloadcenter.asp>
>  <http://www.weather.com/services/downloads/index.html>
>
>  ~~ Mikey
>  _______________________________________________
>  mdlug mailing list
>  mdlug at mdlug.org
>  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>

I've been using an extension called forecast fox for as long as i can
remember, does a bunch of things(radar,severe weather alerts etc..)
and is super configurable.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/398


From relson at osagesoftware.com  Sat Mar 15 17:18:06 2008
From: relson at osagesoftware.com (David Relson)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 17:18:06 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] FIRST Robotics [was: DCG Robot and Retro SIG - Robots at
 Wayne State ]
In-Reply-To: <20080314.224446.3705.1@webmail01.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20080314.224446.3705.1@webmail01.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <20080315171806.55c0f4f3@osage.osagesoftware.com>

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 02:44:46 GMT
gib at juno.com wrote:

> 
> Robots at Wayne State
> Robot story:
> http://www.mitechnews.com/articles.asp?Id=8406
 
..[snip]....

The article is about the FIRST Robotics competition, specifically the
Detroit Regional this weekend.

In two weeks the Great Lakes Regional will be held at EMU's Convocation
Center in Ypsilanti.  It's a 3 day event with:

Thursday - uncrating the robots, last minute tests and fixes, etc

Friday   - qualifying rounds

Saturday AM - qualifying rounds and creation of the 8 alliances for the
finals

Saturday PM - the finals

If you've never been to a FIRST Robotics competion, you've missed a
great time -- lots of activity, creativity, energy, noise, kids,
robots, etc, etc.

My son Eric was on the Ann Arbor Pioneer team for 3 years (as a high
schooler) and has been a mentor for the last 2 years (as a college
engineering student).

There's much more info at the FIRST website, www.usfirst.org

Enjoy!

David


From jcbender at bendorius.com  Sat Mar 15 17:51:43 2008
From: jcbender at bendorius.com (Joseph C. Bender)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 17:51:43 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Weather-info options
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380803151154o4ca3b20fwb2af780d61aacfc5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380803151154o4ca3b20fwb2af780d61aacfc5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47DC44EF.2090700@bendorius.com>

Michael Rudas wrote:
> This is mostly for our North American-based list members.
> 
> Severe weather is a concern this time of year.  For years, I have been
> using the advertising-supported WeatherBug and an ad-free alternative,
> Weather Pulse under Microsoft Windows -- but was not aware of
> alternatives under Linux, so I decided to take a look at The Weather
> Channel and AccuWeather.
 >
	Or just get the XML/RSS straight from the people actually issuing the 
warnings:

http://www.weather.gov/alerts/

Updated every two minutes.



From driveray at ameritech.net  Sat Mar 15 19:09:09 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 19:09:09 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Weather-info options
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380803151154o4ca3b20fwb2af780d61aacfc5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380803151154o4ca3b20fwb2af780d61aacfc5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47DC5715.8040403@ameritech.net>

Michael Rudas wrote:
> This is mostly for our North American-based list members.
> 
> Severe weather is a concern this time of year.  For years, I have been
> using the advertising-supported WeatherBug and an ad-free alternative,
> Weather Pulse under Microsoft Windows -- but was not aware of
> alternatives under Linux, 

> ~~ Mikey

If you want something like the WeatherBug KDE provides an addon called
KWeather that sits on a task bar and report weather conditions at your
chosen weather station, typically an airport. The one feature it lacks
has to do with the barometer. It reports the current reading, but not
the delta or direction of change.

Ray


From micorral at comcast.net  Sat Mar 15 20:28:24 2008
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 20:28:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Weather-info options
In-Reply-To: <9852fbe30803151209v6a2691b4wee42dc86386868c1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380803151154o4ca3b20fwb2af780d61aacfc5@mail.gmail.com>
	<9852fbe30803151209v6a2691b4wee42dc86386868c1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.1.00.0803152026420.3067@banana.sluggo.net>

2008-03-15, Monsieur merc a ecrit:
> I've been using an extension called forecast fox for as long as i can
> remember, does a bunch of things(radar,severe weather alerts etc..)
> and is super configurable.

Same here, forecastfox is nice.
On my desktop I also use wmweather, a WindowMaker dockapp.

Michael


From codeshepherd at gmail.com  Sun Mar 16 05:26:59 2008
From: codeshepherd at gmail.com (Deepan)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 14:56:59 +0530
Subject: [mdlug] mplayer full screen
Message-ID: <3978497cd7a5e7374fe703ce77195a75@localhost.localdomain>


   Hi All,
   I am running Fedora core 7. When I play movies with mplayer, it does
   not play in full screen. Even if I press f for full screen, it plays
   the movie only in the center portion of the screen. I also tried
   mplayer -vo xv movie.avi .. It plays in full screen, but dies after
   sometime saying my system is too slow. I guess is has some thing to do
   with the video cards.. is there a fix ?
   Regards
   Deepan
   Facebook Sudoku Solver: http://apps.facebook.com/sudokusolver/
   Sudoku Solver: http://www.sudoku-solver.net/
   Home Page: http://www.codeshepherd/


From codeshepherd at gmail.com  Sun Mar 16 05:42:03 2008
From: codeshepherd at gmail.com (Deepan)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 15:12:03 +0530
Subject: [mdlug] [OT]Facebook app
Message-ID: <58a4cf91ec77fd0665e1b641444095cd@localhost.localdomain>

Hi All,

I just wrote a facebook application for playing
Sudoku.
 
Those interested..  
http://apps.facebook.com/sudokusolver/ 

For non-facebook users:
http://www.sudoku-solver.net/ 

Regards 

Deepan 





From driveray at ameritech.net  Sun Mar 16 09:17:02 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 09:17:02 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] mplayer full screen
In-Reply-To: <3978497cd7a5e7374fe703ce77195a75@localhost.localdomain>
References: <3978497cd7a5e7374fe703ce77195a75@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <47DD1DCE.3040205@ameritech.net>

Deepan wrote:
>    Hi All,
>    I am running Fedora core 7. When I play movies with mplayer, it does
>    not play in full screen. Even if I press f for full screen, it plays
>    the movie only in the center portion of the screen. I also tried
>    mplayer -vo xv movie.avi .. It plays in full screen, but dies after
>    sometime saying my system is too slow. I guess is has some thing to do
>    with the video cards.. is there a fix ?

Get a faster computer? Besides this there are several things worth
trying. First, you might try other drivers. If you have an open-GL video
card you might try "-vo gl". The gl driver hasn't worked well for me,
but I don't have any experience with Fedora, so your experience could
differ.

Another thing you can do is shutdown as many other programs as you can
before starting mplayer. In fact, if you are using gnome or KDE it would
probably be worth while to log out and select a lighter weight window
manager. TWM and WM2 are about the lightest available. Again I have no
experience with Fedora, so I can't help much here.

It might help some to give mplayer higher priority when you run it:
    nice -19 mplayer -vo <driver> movie.avi

One other option, though it is quite a bit of trouble, is to obtain the
source code for mplayer, then configure and compile it your self.
Situations like this are one case where it helps to run binaries that
are compiled explicitly for your hardware. I have seen this make the
difference between DVDs being barely playable, and playing well, on a
500 MHz Pentium III laptop.

I hope this helps
Raymond McLaughlin

>    Regards
>    Deepan



From driveray at ameritech.net  Sun Mar 16 09:22:12 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 09:22:12 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] mplayer full screen
In-Reply-To: <47DD1DCE.3040205@ameritech.net>
References: <3978497cd7a5e7374fe703ce77195a75@localhost.localdomain>
	<47DD1DCE.3040205@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <47DD1F04.30207@ameritech.net>

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:

> It might help some to give mplayer higher priority when you run it:
>     nice -19 mplayer -vo <driver> movie.avi

I meant to add that you might more traction with this if you "su -" to
root before you do this. I think the system would limit how much
priority an ordinary user can give a process.



From driveray at ameritech.net  Sun Mar 16 09:59:50 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 09:59:50 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Washtenaw LUG meeting next Thursday 3-19
Message-ID: <47DD27D6.9060308@ameritech.net>

Date/Time:
Thursday, March 20th at 8:00 PM

Location:
Washtenaw Community College
4800 E.Huron River Drive
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Room BE-270

Introduction: ls, The Basics of list
Presented by: Kenneth Coe
Main-Topic: The Care and Feeding of Servers : Part 1
Presented by: Mike Bernson


From driveray at ameritech.net  Sun Mar 16 10:01:00 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 10:01:00 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Washtenaw LUG meeting next Thursday 3-20
In-Reply-To: <47DD27D6.9060308@ameritech.net>
References: <47DD27D6.9060308@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <47DD281C.7090001@ameritech.net>

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Date/Time:
> Thursday, March 20th at 8:00 PM
> 
> Location:
> Washtenaw Community College
> 4800 E.Huron River Drive
> Ann Arbor, Michigan
> Room BE-270
> 
> Introduction: ls, The Basics of list
> Presented by: Kenneth Coe
> Main-Topic: The Care and Feeding of Servers : Part 1
> Presented by: Mike Bernson
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 



From codeshepherd at gmail.com  Sun Mar 16 11:57:21 2008
From: codeshepherd at gmail.com (Deepan Chakravarthy)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 21:27:21 +0530
Subject: [mdlug] mplayer full screen
In-Reply-To: <47DD1F04.30207@ameritech.net>
References: <3978497cd7a5e7374fe703ce77195a75@localhost.localdomain>
	<47DD1DCE.3040205@ameritech.net> <47DD1F04.30207@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <a803558d0803160857i2849cc5ajf26980ba4109a9fa@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 6:52 PM, Raymond McLaughlin <driveray at ameritech.net>
wrote:

> Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
>
> > It might help some to give mplayer higher priority when you run it:
> >     nice -19 mplayer -vo <driver> movie.avi
>
> I meant to add that you might more traction with this if you "su -" to
> root before you do this. I think the system would limit how much
> priority an ordinary user can give a process.
> lspci throws the following.. how do I find info about drivers ?
> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. UniChrome Pro
> IGP (rev 01)
>
> I will also try nice..
>

-- 
Facebook Sudoku App: http://apps.facebook.com/sudokusolver/
Sudoku Solver: http://www.sudoku-solver.net


From codeshepherd at gmail.com  Sun Mar 16 11:54:29 2008
From: codeshepherd at gmail.com (Deepan)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 21:24:29 +0530
Subject: [mdlug] HP Laptop Mic
Message-ID: <60c644b3135d198b5f32693f8e213e26@localhost.localdomain>

Hi All,
I have Fc 6 on a HP Pavllion dv 6000. I am able to
listen to music on the built in speakers.The
inbuilt mic doesn't work and when connecting
external speakers I don't get the sound on the
external speakers  thought my built in speakers
continue to work. After searching on the internet,
came to  know I had to upgrade alsa drivers. I
downloaded the latest version and  alsa-drivers
and als-libs and did as mentioned in the README.
But  /proc/asound/version still shows me the old
version. What have I missed ? Do I need to 
recompile the kernel ?
Regards 
Deepan 
Facebook Sudoku Solver:
http://apps.facebook.com/sudokusolver/ 
Sudoku Solver: http://www.sudoku-solver.net/ 
Home Page: http://www.codeshepherd/ 




From peter at petertheplumber.net  Sun Mar 16 14:47:01 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 14:47:01 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Weather-info options
In-Reply-To: <47DC5715.8040403@ameritech.net>
References: <b67fb0380803151154o4ca3b20fwb2af780d61aacfc5@mail.gmail.com>
	<47DC5715.8040403@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <1205693221.32187.4.camel@peter-notebook.site>


On Sat, 2008-03-15 at 19:09 -0400, Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Michael Rudas wrote:
> > This is mostly for our North American-based list members.
> > 
> > Severe weather is a concern this time of year.  For years, I have been
> > using the advertising-supported WeatherBug and an ad-free alternative,
> > Weather Pulse under Microsoft Windows -- but was not aware of
> > alternatives under Linux, 
> 
> > ~~ Mikey
> 
> If you want something like the WeatherBug KDE provides an addon called
> KWeather that sits on a task bar and report weather conditions at your
> chosen weather station, typically an airport. The one feature it lacks
> has to do with the barometer. It reports the current reading, but not
> the delta or direction of change.
> 

Gnome has the same, I think it gets it's information from weather.com.
You can configure it to show quite a bit of information including a
radar map. Right click the panel you want to add this to; add to panel;
and select it from the list.

Best Regards,
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From peter at petertheplumber.net  Sun Mar 16 14:58:29 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 14:58:29 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Another Google Project Almost Creepy
Message-ID: <1205693909.32187.12.camel@peter-notebook.site>

Hi Everyone,
 I found this the other day <http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl>.
Enter an address; for example Gaudior Academy at 27100 Avondale Avenue
Inkster MI; and up pops a window with a picture of the location. You can
then pan, zoom and drive up and down the street on your computer. You
can even pan way down and see parts of the car used to record this. Some
can be interesting, I have my work van in the drive way with my head
buried in the side door and you know what sticking out. Whatever was
happening at the instant of capture is now recorded forever. Based on my
house I would say it was done last year late in the summer, not quite
fall.

Best Regards,
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sun Mar 16 15:45:31 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 15:45:31 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] HP Laptop Mic
In-Reply-To: <60c644b3135d198b5f32693f8e213e26@localhost.localdomain>
References: <60c644b3135d198b5f32693f8e213e26@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803161245y3c5dddf5ha8304f1f2dee63a2@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Deepan <codeshepherd at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>  I have Fc 6 on a HP Pavllion dv 6000. I am able to
>  listen to music on the built in speakers.The
>  inbuilt mic doesn't work and when connecting
>  external speakers I don't get the sound on the
>  external speakers  thought my built in speakers
>  continue to work. After searching on the internet,
>  came to  know I had to upgrade alsa drivers. I
>  downloaded the latest version and  alsa-drivers
>  and als-libs and did as mentioned in the README.
>  But  /proc/asound/version still shows me the old
>  version. What have I missed ? Do I need to
>  recompile the kernel ?

You probably don't need to recompile the kernel although I have never
tried to build ALSA.  Have a look at this:
http://alsa.opensrc.org/index.php/Quick_Install


From relson at osagesoftware.com  Sun Mar 16 16:50:55 2008
From: relson at osagesoftware.com (David Relson)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 16:50:55 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] HP Laptop Mic
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90803161245y3c5dddf5ha8304f1f2dee63a2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <60c644b3135d198b5f32693f8e213e26@localhost.localdomain>
	<b02c40e90803161245y3c5dddf5ha8304f1f2dee63a2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080316165055.6d8c8b13@osage.osagesoftware.com>

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 15:45:31 -0400
Jeff Hanson wrote:

> On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Deepan <codeshepherd at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >  I have Fc 6 on a HP Pavllion dv 6000. I am able to
> >  listen to music on the built in speakers.The
> >  inbuilt mic doesn't work and when connecting
> >  external speakers I don't get the sound on the
> >  external speakers  thought my built in speakers
> >  continue to work. After searching on the internet,
> >  came to  know I had to upgrade alsa drivers. I
> >  downloaded the latest version and  alsa-drivers
> >  and als-libs and did as mentioned in the README.
> >  But  /proc/asound/version still shows me the old
> >  version. What have I missed ? Do I need to
> >  recompile the kernel ?
> 
> You probably don't need to recompile the kernel although I have never
> tried to build ALSA.  Have a look at this:
> http://alsa.opensrc.org/index.php/Quick_Install

It seems to me that, whether the kernel has ALSA support included or
not, is of some importance.  The following command will (likely) be
informative:

 zcat /proc/config | grep ALSA

HTH,

David


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sun Mar 16 18:09:42 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 18:09:42 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] mplayer full screen
In-Reply-To: <3978497cd7a5e7374fe703ce77195a75@localhost.localdomain>
References: <3978497cd7a5e7374fe703ce77195a75@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803161509o5454c755kc157c784ae744a57@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 5:26 AM, Deepan <codeshepherd at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>    Hi All,
>    I am running Fedora core 7. When I play movies with mplayer, it does
>    not play in full screen. Even if I press f for full screen, it plays
>    the movie only in the center portion of the screen. I also tried
>    mplayer -vo xv movie.avi .. It plays in full screen, but dies after
>    sometime saying my system is too slow. I guess is has some thing to do
>    with the video cards.. is there a fix ?

If you have an older system try other players like VLC which may have
less overhead.  I can't remember how much the players take advantage
of hardware video acceleration but check your drivers with glxgears
and glxinfo to see if OpenGL is working and configured correctly.


From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Sun Mar 16 19:31:22 2008
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Robert Meier)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 19:31:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] HP Laptop Mic
In-Reply-To: <60c644b3135d198b5f32693f8e213e26@localhost.localdomain> (message
	from Deepan on Sun, 16 Mar 2008 21:24:29 +0530)
References: <60c644b3135d198b5f32693f8e213e26@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20080316233122.CAA0C19E614@starfox.local>

Deepan,

> I have ...
> I am able to listen to music on the built in speakers.
> The [builtin] mic doesn't work and when connecting
> external speakers I don't get the sound on the
> external speakers [, though] my built in speakers
> continue to work. ...

I would be surprised if changing software had any impact at all.

Every laptop I've seen, has a player-style speaker jack
(usu. 1.5mm stereo) with 5 wires on the motherboard.
When no plug is in the jack, the sound card output is directed
to the builtin speakers.  When a plug is inserted into the jack,
it mechanically disconnects the builtin speakers, and connects
the output to the tip and rings on the plug.

If you are still hearing the sound on the builtin speakers,
I would guess that your plug is not mechanically fitting into
the jack (probable), or that the jack is broken (less probable).

I have seen laptops and players that require longer speaker plugs
to reach past thicker walls that provide sturdiness.  Usually if the jack
is broken (i.e. by forcing a too-large plug into it), the builtin
speakers are permanently disconnected.

Additionally, to avoid feedback, my laptop and many other appliances
disable the builtin microphone when the builtin speakers are wired
into the circuit.

I suggest that you try a diffent set of speakers with longer plug,
or use an adapter with a longer plug.

Hopefully helpful,
-- 
Bob

  "All that is necessory for the triumph of evil,
   is that enough good men do nothing."
     -- Edmund Burke



From ebielaczyc at gmail.com  Sun Mar 16 21:21:13 2008
From: ebielaczyc at gmail.com (Ein Bielaczyc)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 21:21:13 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Another Google Project Almost Creepy
In-Reply-To: <1205693909.32187.12.camel@peter-notebook.site>
References: <1205693909.32187.12.camel@peter-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <ba6f3ba00803161821n44bc2143pee0dd0e695991268@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 2:58 PM, Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>   I found this the other day <http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl>.
>  Enter an address; for example Gaudior Academy at 27100 Avondale Avenue
>  Inkster MI; and up pops a window with a picture of the location. You can
>  then pan, zoom and drive up and down the street on your computer. You
>  can even pan way down and see parts of the car used to record this. Some
>  can be interesting, I have my work van in the drive way with my head
>  buried in the side door and you know what sticking out. Whatever was
>  happening at the instant of capture is now recorded forever. Based on my
>  house I would say it was done last year late in the summer, not quite
>  fall.
>
>  Best Regards,
>  --
>  Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
>  http://petertheplumber.net
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  mdlug mailing list
>  mdlug at mdlug.org
>  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>

I vote creepy.

-- 
Ein Bielaczyc <ebielaczyc at gmail.com>

NOTICE: This E-mail (including attachments) is covered by the
Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C.2510-2521, is
confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention,
dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is
strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received
the message in error, then delete it.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sun Mar 16 23:17:16 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 23:17:16 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Another Google Project Almost Creepy
In-Reply-To: <ba6f3ba00803161821n44bc2143pee0dd0e695991268@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1205693909.32187.12.camel@peter-notebook.site>
	<ba6f3ba00803161821n44bc2143pee0dd0e695991268@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803162017i30665ae5t80b479101d986799@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 9:21 PM, Ein Bielaczyc <ebielaczyc at gmail.com> wrote:
>  I vote creepy.

Really makes the ICBM address obsolete.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICBM_address


From cvweiss at gmail.com  Mon Mar 17 01:04:19 2008
From: cvweiss at gmail.com (Clinton V. Weiss)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 01:04:19 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Another Google Project Almost Creepy
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90803162017i30665ae5t80b479101d986799@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1205693909.32187.12.camel@peter-notebook.site>	<ba6f3ba00803161821n44bc2143pee0dd0e695991268@mail.gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90803162017i30665ae5t80b479101d986799@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47DDFBD3.6030609@gmail.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 9:21 PM, Ein Bielaczyc <ebielaczyc at gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>>  I vote creepy.
>>     
>
> Really makes the ICBM address obsolete.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICBM_address
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>   
I never knew about the ICBM address, but then again I didn't discover 
the internet until 92 or so, and even then it was limited through a 
university account.

Funny how some people added "Don't shoot!" to their ICBM signature, I 
think I would have added:
"Do you want to play a game?"

Clinton


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 17 09:09:49 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 06:09:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
Message-ID: <700572.70720.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I have had a Lexmark printer, It did not work for Linux. 
I have had a Canon Pixma Printer, It did not work for Lunix. 

I do know that HP has tools for OpenSuse, and I walk in to a Big LOTS, and there is a Deskjet D1415  for $26.00. There are similar models selling at Best Buy, and other stores for 69.00.  The only thing you have to deal with is that it does not come with is that you need to get black ink, it just comes with color.

David C. Lane 






      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Mon Mar 17 09:33:57 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 09:33:57 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
In-Reply-To: <700572.70720.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654BF@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: David Lane

> I do know that HP has tools for OpenSuse, and I walk in to a 
> Big LOTS, and there is a Deskjet D1415  for $26.00.

 Lots of companies are starting to understand the benefits of open source. I just
attended a presentation here at Compuware a few days ago that showed some people
here "get it" - Compuware's been working with the Eclipse foundation for a long
time.

 Linux is only a part of open source, but the more open source stuff there is, the
more useful it becomes. There won't be a "Year of the Linux Desktop" - it'll just
keep growing, slowly and inexorably, and then it'll be a common part of the
landscape and no one will give it a second thought.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                   (313) 227-2317

   "Kids cost nothing to make, and what with the Internet,
     they practically raise themselves!" - Homer Simpson
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Mon Mar 17 10:22:42 2008
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 09:22:42 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Another Google Project Almost Creepy
In-Reply-To: <1205693909.32187.12.camel@peter-notebook.site>
References: <1205693909.32187.12.camel@peter-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <4145b6790803170722t1f583a65ga8cadc59947ac5ec@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 1:58 PM, Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:
>   I found this the other day <http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl>.
>  Enter an address; for example Gaudior Academy at 27100 Avondale Avenue
>  Inkster MI; and up pops a window with a picture of the location. You can
>  then pan, zoom and drive up and down the street on your computer.

It's called Google Street View:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Street_View

Some interesting sites with Google Street view:

http://mashable.com/2007/05/31/top-15-google-street-view-sightings/

Regards,
- Robert


From brian at dangerbacon.com  Mon Mar 17 13:12:28 2008
From: brian at dangerbacon.com (Brian)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 13:12:28 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] mplayer full screen
In-Reply-To: <3978497cd7a5e7374fe703ce77195a75@localhost.localdomain>
References: <3978497cd7a5e7374fe703ce77195a75@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <6f64e9540803171012g68d7483et6116001b34f3be94@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 5:26 AM, Deepan <codeshepherd at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>   Hi All,
>   I am running Fedora core 7. When I play movies with mplayer, it does
>   not play in full screen. Even if I press f for full screen, it plays
>   the movie only in the center portion of the screen. I also tried
>   mplayer -vo xv movie.avi .. It plays in full screen, but dies after
>   sometime saying my system is too slow. I guess is has some thing to do
>   with the video cards.. is there a fix ?
> <http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug>
>

Try running this with the -framedrop option.


-- 
Brian
"It's not stupid, it's advaaanced!" - Tallest Purple


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 17 15:23:26 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 12:23:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Score one for Novell
Message-ID: <190288.44585.qm@web37907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/newstex/AFX-0013-23832161.htm






      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Mar 17 15:33:40 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 15:33:40 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Score one for Novell
In-Reply-To: <190288.44585.qm@web37907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <190288.44585.qm@web37907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803171233y73f5d29dmd56e182342bb6992@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 3:23 PM, David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com> wrote:
> http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/newstex/AFX-0013-23832161.htm

Oh, this is the other Novell that didn't sign up for the patent
indemnification FUD. ;)


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Mar 17 15:58:05 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 15:58:05 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
In-Reply-To: <700572.70720.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <700572.70720.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803171258h1c00f355t59edcb8fbb1c3b27@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 9:09 AM, David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I have had a Lexmark printer, It did not work for Linux.
>  I have had a Canon Pixma Printer, It did not work for Lunix.

I never liked Lexmark printers.  The ones I've used had bad paper
handling and always skewed the printing.  Their Linux SDK only
supports a few models.  I'm not sure if their other models require
binary blobs that aren't in the SDK or no independant developers like
their products enough to bother adding support for them.

>  I do know that HP has tools for OpenSuse, and I walk in to a Big LOTS, and there is a Deskjet D1415  for $26.00. There are similar models selling at Best Buy, and other stores for 69.00.  The only thing you have to deal with is that it does not come with is that you need to get black ink, it just comes with color.

That model isn't listed on HP's support site.  Maybe it's an OEM
model.  I only found a forum post at Ubuntu about it not printing
correctly.


From mdlug3 at arb.net  Mon Mar 17 16:12:44 2008
From: mdlug3 at arb.net (Dave Arbogast)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 16:12:44 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90803171258h1c00f355t59edcb8fbb1c3b27@mail.gmail.com>
References: <700572.70720.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<b02c40e90803171258h1c00f355t59edcb8fbb1c3b27@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47DED0BC.70506@arb.net>



Jeff Hanson wrote:

>On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 9:09 AM, David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>I have had a Lexmark printer, It did not work for Linux.
>> I have had a Canon Pixma Printer, It did not work for Lunix.
>>    
>>
>
>I never liked Lexmark printers.  The ones I've used had bad paper
>handling and always skewed the printing.  Their Linux SDK only
>supports a few models.  I'm not sure if their other models require
>binary blobs that aren't in the SDK or no independant developers like
>their products enough to bother adding support for them.
>
>  
>
>> I do know that HP has tools for OpenSuse, and I walk in to a Big LOTS, and there is a Deskjet D1415  for $26.00. There are similar models selling at Best Buy, and other stores for 69.00.  The only thing you have to deal with is that it does not come with is that you need to get black ink, it just comes with color.
>>    
>>
>
>That model isn't listed on HP's support site.  Maybe it's an OEM
>model.  I only found a forum post at Ubuntu about it not printing
>correctly.
>____________
>
My Lexmark is a color laser printer on the net with postscript, so works 
well with Linux. It also has great quality so I am very happy with it. 
Ink jets are like a cell phone - the device is almost free but the use 
of it will cost you dearly. (Ink, especially if it has a chip in the 
cartridge so you need to buy a zapper and hope it resets it when you 
refill it)


-dave


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 17 16:22:50 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 13:22:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
Message-ID: <741685.4091.qm@web37911.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

The great thing about HP is that you can put a printer setting in the Model Family.  And it will still work.  

That worked with Xerox too. 

I'm doing back flips because I am just printing.  NOTHING worked before.

There are some Canon support but I was not able to get my Canon Pixma to work.

I had to print to .pdf file them print from Windows, that is not fun. :(

David 


----- Original Message ----
From: Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 3:58:05 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?

On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 9:09 AM, David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I have had a Lexmark printer, It did not work for Linux.
>  I have had a Canon Pixma Printer, It did not work for Lunix.

I never liked Lexmark printers.  The ones I've used had bad paper
handling and always skewed the printing.  Their Linux SDK only
supports a few models.  I'm not sure if their other models require
binary blobs that aren't in the SDK or no independant developers like
their products enough to bother adding support for them.

>  I do know that HP has tools for OpenSuse, and I walk in to a Big LOTS, and there is a Deskjet D1415  for $26.00. There are similar models selling at Best Buy, and other stores for 69.00.  The only thing you have to deal with is that it does not come with is that you need to get black ink, it just comes with color.

That model isn't listed on HP's support site.  Maybe it's an OEM
model.  I only found a forum post at Ubuntu about it not printing
correctly.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug






      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 17 16:25:00 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 13:25:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
Message-ID: <621057.53149.qm@web37915.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I'll have to look in to that.  I have a USB d-link Net server But that lexmark did not work with Linux or the d-link server.

David 


----- Original Message ----
From: Dave Arbogast <mdlug3 at arb.net>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 4:12:44 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?



Jeff Hanson wrote:

>On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 9:09 AM, David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>I have had a Lexmark printer, It did not work for Linux.
>> I have had a Canon Pixma Printer, It did not work for Lunix.
>>    
>>
>
>I never liked Lexmark printers.  The ones I've used had bad paper
>handling and always skewed the printing.  Their Linux SDK only
>supports a few models.  I'm not sure if their other models require
>binary blobs that aren't in the SDK or no independant developers like
>their products enough to bother adding support for them.
>
>  
>
>> I do know that HP has tools for OpenSuse, and I walk in to a Big LOTS, and there is a Deskjet D1415  for $26.00. There are similar models selling at Best Buy, and other stores for 69.00.  The only thing you have to deal with is that it does not come with is that you need to get black ink, it just comes with color.
>>    
>>
>
>That model isn't listed on HP's support site.  Maybe it's an OEM
>model.  I only found a forum post at Ubuntu about it not printing
>correctly.
>____________
>
My Lexmark is a color laser printer on the net with postscript, so works 
well with Linux. It also has great quality so I am very happy with it. 
Ink jets are like a cell phone - the device is almost free but the use 
of it will cost you dearly. (Ink, especially if it has a chip in the 
cartridge so you need to buy a zapper and hope it resets it when you 
refill it)


-dave
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug






      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

From tcameron at redhat.com  Mon Mar 17 17:25:27 2008
From: tcameron at redhat.com (Thomas Cameron (Red Hat))
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 16:25:27 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
In-Reply-To: <700572.70720.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <700572.70720.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <47DEE1C7.6090909@redhat.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

David Lane wrote:
| I have had a Lexmark printer, It did not work for Linux.
| I have had a Canon Pixma Printer, It did not work for Lunix.
|
| I do know that HP has tools for OpenSuse, and I walk in to a Big LOTS,
and there is a Deskjet D1415  for $26.00. There are similar models
selling at Best Buy, and other stores for 69.00.  The only thing you
have to deal with is that it does not come with is that you need to get
black ink, it just comes with color.

I have been looking for a fast black and white printer for home and I've
learned a couple of things...

You have to be *really* careful about buying a "cheap" printer.  In many
cases the printer vendors have learned Gilette's lesson - give away the
razor and charge for the blades.  You can get printers for next to
nothing these days, but the ink can kick your butt in cost.  Expensive
cartridges that don't last very long to not make a cheap printer.  :-(

I haven't really looked at that printer for ink prices, just a word to
the wise.
- --
Thomas Cameron, RHCE, RHCX, CNE, MCSE, MCT
Solutions Architect Team Lead, Central Region
512-241-0774 office / 512-585-5631 cell / 512-857-1345 fax

Red Hat rated #1 in value by CIOs for four years running:
http://www.redhat.com/about/news/prarchive/2007/CIO_Insight_Study.html
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFH3uHHmzle50YHwaARAp8fAJ4nlVQRjLVvEahYaq0Ck//eZy5zEACbBDXk
3ee04qunCjX8BTkviEiK9oQ=
=2OsA
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From tcameron at redhat.com  Mon Mar 17 17:32:39 2008
From: tcameron at redhat.com (Thomas Cameron (Red Hat))
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 16:32:39 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] mplayer full screen
In-Reply-To: <a803558d0803131553i182c56eh6ab46a3d91e77f5b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a803558d0803131553i182c56eh6ab46a3d91e77f5b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47DEE377.6000201@redhat.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Deepan Chakravarthy wrote:
| Hi,
|   When I play movies in my Fedora 8 system using mplayer, the movie is
| rendered only in a small portion of the screen. Even with full screen
| option, it does not render in full screen. How do I fix it ?
|

Rename your ~/.mplayer directory to something like ~/.mplayer.old and
retry it.  Mplayer will set some defaults based on what your display is
like.  If you've changed your display, you might want to start over fresh.

- --
Thomas Cameron, RHCE, RHCX, CNE, MCSE, MCT
Solutions Architect Team Lead, Central Region
512-241-0774 office / 512-585-5631 cell / 512-857-1345 fax

Red Hat rated #1 in value by CIOs for four years running:
http://www.redhat.com/about/news/prarchive/2007/CIO_Insight_Study.html
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFH3uN3mzle50YHwaARAklSAKCA2Ju6ESXduIy3kFTKEJAKpeBNsgCcCJn3
yT5z+ISLEIGDrpaRYv9X9Sg=
=YV0v
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 17 17:58:28 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 14:58:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
Message-ID: <720951.14149.qm@web37915.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

For printers your cost is the ink. 

Digital Photography has made it cost less.  

But As I said before I had a really tough time finding a printer that would work with My Linux Stations.

FYI I: just got an email from MicroCenter and it looks like they are liquidating  CompUSA's stock.  The thing is, I scout  out resources so that when I do buy I know what I'm buying and I know what the Market is doing.  Yes, There were a few buys that I was not 100% happy with that is were we learn.  

I'm happy I found newegg.com to cross reference Prices an model numbers.  

----- Original Message ----
From: Thomas Cameron (Red Hat) <tcameron at redhat.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 5:25:27 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

David Lane wrote:
| I have had a Lexmark printer, It did not work for Linux.
| I have had a Canon Pixma Printer, It did not work for Lunix.
|
| I do know that HP has tools for OpenSuse, and I walk in to a Big LOTS,
and there is a Deskjet D1415  for $26.00. There are similar models
selling at Best Buy, and other stores for 69.00.  The only thing you
have to deal with is that it does not come with is that you need to get
black ink, it just comes with color.

I have been looking for a fast black and white printer for home and I've
learned a couple of things...

You have to be *really* careful about buying a "cheap" printer.  In many
cases the printer vendors have learned Gilette's lesson - give away the
razor and charge for the blades.  You can get printers for next to
nothing these days, but the ink can kick your butt in cost.  Expensive
cartridges that don't last very long to not make a cheap printer.  :-(

I haven't really looked at that printer for ink prices, just a word to
the wise.
- --
Thomas Cameron, RHCE, RHCX, CNE, MCSE, MCT
Solutions Architect Team Lead, Central Region
512-241-0774 office / 512-585-5631 cell / 512-857-1345 fax

Red Hat rated #1 in value by CIOs for four years running:
http://www.redhat.com/about/news/prarchive/2007/CIO_Insight_Study.html
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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3ee04qunCjX8BTkviEiK9oQ=
=2OsA
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_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug






      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Mon Mar 17 18:43:18 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:43:18 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
In-Reply-To: <700572.70720.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <700572.70720.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <47DEF406.7020300@hotpop.com>

David Lane wrote:
> I have had a Lexmark printer, It did not work for Linux. 
> I have had a Canon Pixma Printer, It did not work for Lunix. 
> 
> I do know that HP has tools for OpenSuse, and I walk in to a Big LOTS, and there is a Deskjet D1415  for $26.00. There are similar models selling at Best Buy, and other stores for 69.00.  The only thing you have to deal with is that it does not come with is that you need to get black ink, it just comes with color.
> 

Which Big Lots?




From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 17 18:51:45 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 15:51:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
Message-ID: <570605.11064.qm@web37909.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I'm currently in New York. But It looks like they get the same stock and spread it across the nation.

I normally check once a week or 2 weeks.  you can find good deals on paper and photo paper too.

David 

----- Original Message ----
From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis3 at hotpop.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 6:43:18 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?

David Lane wrote:
> I have had a Lexmark printer, It did not work for Linux. 
> I have had a Canon Pixma Printer, It did not work for Lunix. 
> 
> I do know that HP has tools for OpenSuse, and I walk in to a Big LOTS, and there is a Deskjet D1415  for $26.00. There are similar models selling at Best Buy, and other stores for 69.00.  The only thing you have to deal with is that it does not come with is that you need to get black ink, it just comes with color.
> 

Which Big Lots?


_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug





__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From jbroughton at twmi.rr.com  Mon Mar 17 20:40:58 2008
From: jbroughton at twmi.rr.com (Jim)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 20:40:58 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Anyone familiar with Qmail. I need some help.
Message-ID: <47DF0F9A.60707@twmi.rr.com>

I run a Qmail server using netqmail-1.05. This server has been running 
along fine until
about the last 3 months. Now I find myself in a never ending pit of 
spam. I have firewalled off about 10 different
countries in there entirety. I have throttled NEW email connections to 
about 3 per minute per IP address
via the firewall. I use spamdyke to handle the RBL DNS block lists as 
well as local blocklists.  For some reason
and I am not sure why I am still getting a gazillion bounces.  What is 
weird  is  is that  these  bounces are not
even targeted at my  domain. I call them bounce spam. I have been over 
my qmail configs files till I cannot stand looking
at them. For some reason my system is not rejecting these emails but is 
instead feeding them into the bounce facility.
It's driving me nuts as it pretty much hangs up outgoing mail while 
qmail-remote trys to send out the bounces. Sometimes thousands at a time 
are hung up in the queue not to mention the thousands of double bounces 
that are in my mailbox as well. I can delete the messages in the queue 
but this wipes out legitimate outgoing email as well.
Has anyone seen this problem or have experience with it? I'm baffled.


Jim B.




From jbroughton at twmi.rr.com  Mon Mar 17 21:03:33 2008
From: jbroughton at twmi.rr.com (Jim)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 21:03:33 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Anyone familiar with Qmail. I need some help.
In-Reply-To: <47DF0F9A.60707@twmi.rr.com>
References: <47DF0F9A.60707@twmi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <47DF14E5.9060208@twmi.rr.com>

Jim wrote:
> I run a Qmail server using netqmail-1.05. This server has been running 
> along fine until
> about the last 3 months. Now I find myself in a never ending pit of 
> spam. I have firewalled off about 10 different
> countries in there entirety. I have throttled NEW email connections to 
> about 3 per minute per IP address
> via the firewall. I use spamdyke to handle the RBL DNS block lists as 
> well as local blocklists.  For some reason
> and I am not sure why I am still getting a gazillion bounces.  What is 
> weird  is  is that  these  bounces are not
> even targeted at my  domain. I call them bounce spam. I have been over 
> my qmail configs files till I cannot stand looking
> at them. For some reason my system is not rejecting these emails but is 
> instead feeding them into the bounce facility.
> It's driving me nuts as it pretty much hangs up outgoing mail while 
> qmail-remote trys to send out the bounces. Sometimes thousands at a time 
> are hung up in the queue not to mention the thousands of double bounces 
> that are in my mailbox as well. I can delete the messages in the queue 
> but this wipes out legitimate outgoing email as well.
> Has anyone seen this problem or have experience with it? I'm baffled.
>
>
> Jim B.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>   
Oh yes and I have made sure that the system is NOT an OPEN relay.

Jim B.



From ebielaczyc at gmail.com  Mon Mar 17 21:13:32 2008
From: ebielaczyc at gmail.com (Ein Bielaczyc)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 21:13:32 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Anyone familiar with Qmail. I need some help.
In-Reply-To: <47DF14E5.9060208@twmi.rr.com>
References: <47DF0F9A.60707@twmi.rr.com> <47DF14E5.9060208@twmi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <ba6f3ba00803171813x96fc08dja3ed109cd114aa70@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 9:03 PM, Jim <jbroughton at twmi.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Jim wrote:
>  > I run a Qmail server using netqmail-1.05. This server has been running
>  > along fine until
>  > about the last 3 months. Now I find myself in a never ending pit of
>  > spam. I have firewalled off about 10 different
>  > countries in there entirety. I have throttled NEW email connections to
>  > about 3 per minute per IP address
>  > via the firewall. I use spamdyke to handle the RBL DNS block lists as
>  > well as local blocklists.  For some reason
>  > and I am not sure why I am still getting a gazillion bounces.  What is
>  > weird  is  is that  these  bounces are not
>  > even targeted at my  domain. I call them bounce spam. I have been over
>  > my qmail configs files till I cannot stand looking
>  > at them. For some reason my system is not rejecting these emails but is
>  > instead feeding them into the bounce facility.
>  > It's driving me nuts as it pretty much hangs up outgoing mail while
>  > qmail-remote trys to send out the bounces. Sometimes thousands at a time
>  > are hung up in the queue not to mention the thousands of double bounces
>  > that are in my mailbox as well. I can delete the messages in the queue
>  > but this wipes out legitimate outgoing email as well.
>  > Has anyone seen this problem or have experience with it? I'm baffled.
>  >
>  Oh yes and I have made sure that the system is NOT an OPEN relay.
>
>
>
>  Jim B.

I have some experience with Qmail. I've run with Qmail-Toaster for
sometime. Though I've never used SpamDyke I have seriously considered
it as the Toaster doesn't yet have GreyListing support.

But I think more information is necessary. Can you send copies of your
tcp.smtp rules, and excerpts from the appropriate logs showing message
processing.

It doesn't make much sense that Qmail would accept a message for a
domain it shouldn't. At least that's not a situation I've ever
experienced.


-- 
Ein Bielaczyc <ebielaczyc at gmail.com>

NOTICE: This E-mail (including attachments) is covered by the
Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C.2510-2521, is
confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention,
dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is
strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received
the message in error, then delete it.


From tony at bemushosting.com  Mon Mar 17 21:21:18 2008
From: tony at bemushosting.com (Tony Bemus)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 21:21:18 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
In-Reply-To: <570605.11064.qm@web37909.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <570605.11064.qm@web37909.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1205803278.15168.31.camel@bemus-tony.bemus>

I would be careful with this printer.  A quick google search found a
Ubuntu user that had a problem with the same printer.
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=707482

I normal will only use HP printer,  Mine is a HP PSC2110 and it worked
with out me having to do anything!  Ubuntu 7.10 recognized it and
installed everything and I can scan and print.

Just my thoughts

Tony Bemus



On Mon, 2008-03-17 at 15:51 -0700, David Lane wrote:

> I'm currently in New York. But It looks like they get the same stock and spread it across the nation.
> 
> I normally check once a week or 2 weeks.  you can find good deals on paper and photo paper too.
> 
> David 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis3 at hotpop.com>
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 6:43:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
> 
> David Lane wrote:
> > I have had a Lexmark printer, It did not work for Linux. 
> > I have had a Canon Pixma Printer, It did not work for Lunix. 
> > 
> > I do know that HP has tools for OpenSuse, and I walk in to a Big LOTS, and there is a Deskjet D1415  for $26.00. There are similar models selling at Best Buy, and other stores for 69.00.  The only thing you have to deal with is that it does not come with is that you need to get black ink, it just comes with color.
> > 
> 
> Which Big Lots?
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From micorral at comcast.net  Mon Mar 17 22:24:59 2008
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 22:24:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
In-Reply-To: <47DEE1C7.6090909@redhat.com>
References: <700572.70720.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<47DEE1C7.6090909@redhat.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.1.00.0803172213050.11230@banana.sluggo.net>

2008-03-17, Monsieur Thomas Cameron (Red Hat) a ecrit:
> I have been looking for a fast black and white printer for home and I've
> learned a couple of things...
>
> You have to be *really* careful about buying a "cheap" printer.

The old HP laserjets are still the best for black&white, IMO.

I got an old HP Laserjet 4 Plus from work for free, they scrapped it
because we got some of those new big Xerox printer/copier/fax things.
I've been using it for over a year now, it's been great. The print
quality is so good. And you can get cheap ink cartridges for it on the
interweb (about 1/3 the official retail price). I've seen some local
places selling old used HP laserjets for cheap, I think that's the way
to go.

Michael


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Mon Mar 17 21:27:01 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 21:27:01 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
In-Reply-To: <47DEE1C7.6090909@redhat.com>
References: <700572.70720.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<47DEE1C7.6090909@redhat.com>
Message-ID: <47DF1A65.5000908@hotpop.com>

Thomas Cameron (Red Hat) wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> David Lane wrote:
> | I have had a Lexmark printer, It did not work for Linux.
> | I have had a Canon Pixma Printer, It did not work for Lunix.
> |
> | I do know that HP has tools for OpenSuse, and I walk in to a Big LOTS,
> and there is a Deskjet D1415  for $26.00. There are similar models
> selling at Best Buy, and other stores for 69.00.  The only thing you
> have to deal with is that it does not come with is that you need to get
> black ink, it just comes with color.
> 
> I have been looking for a fast black and white printer for home and I've
> learned a couple of things...
> 
> You have to be *really* careful about buying a "cheap" printer.  In many
> cases the printer vendors have learned Gilette's lesson - give away the
> razor and charge for the blades.  You can get printers for next to
> nothing these days, but the ink can kick your butt in cost.  Expensive
> cartridges that don't last very long to not make a cheap printer.  :-(
> 
> I haven't really looked at that printer for ink prices, just a word to
> the wise.

For fast black and white, I would look into a used laser printer.
Toner powder is cheap.




From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Mon Mar 17 22:29:17 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 22:29:17 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Anyone familiar with Qmail. I need some help.
In-Reply-To: <47DF0F9A.60707@twmi.rr.com>
References: <47DF0F9A.60707@twmi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <47DF28FD.3000305@hotpop.com>

Jim wrote:
> I run a Qmail server using netqmail-1.05. This server has been running 
> along fine until
> about the last 3 months. Now I find myself in a never ending pit of 
> spam. I have firewalled off about 10 different
> countries in there entirety. I have throttled NEW email connections to 
> about 3 per minute per IP address
> via the firewall. I use spamdyke to handle the RBL DNS block lists as 
> well as local blocklists.  For some reason
> and I am not sure why I am still getting a gazillion bounces.  What is 
> weird  is  is that  these  bounces are not
> even targeted at my  domain. I call them bounce spam. I have been over 
> my qmail configs files till I cannot stand looking
> at them. For some reason my system is not rejecting these emails but is 
> instead feeding them into the bounce facility.
> It's driving me nuts as it pretty much hangs up outgoing mail while 
> qmail-remote trys to send out the bounces. Sometimes thousands at a time 
> are hung up in the queue not to mention the thousands of double bounces 
> that are in my mailbox as well. I can delete the messages in the queue 
> but this wipes out legitimate outgoing email as well.
> Has anyone seen this problem or have experience with it? I'm baffled.
> 

I sympathize with you Jim...but frankly, the formatting
on this whole thing makes it aggravating as heck to read.
Especially the lines that are too long
and then take up half a line before going onto the next
line in the middle of a paragraph
It's really really SUPER annoying to just about everyone.
So set your line length to about the 65-70 character range.
The lack of paragraph breaks (or even indentations)
also impede reader comprehension.

In the future, please keep in mind that the purpose of
writing to the list is for others to read your message,
and then write and format so that it's as easy as possible
for the rest of us to read what you wrote.

Otherwise, all you're doing is wasting your own time.




From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 17 23:46:43 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 20:46:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
Message-ID: <276720.92793.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Currently I have My eyes on the HP 2605nd Color Laser Duplexing Networked. 

I have tp plan for it because it runs from 449 - 499. 

David 


----- Original Message ----
From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis3 at hotpop.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 9:27:01 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?

Thomas Cameron (Red Hat) wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> David Lane wrote:
> | I have had a Lexmark printer, It did not work for Linux.
> | I have had a Canon Pixma Printer, It did not work for Lunix.
> |
> | I do know that HP has tools for OpenSuse, and I walk in to a Big LOTS,
> and there is a Deskjet D1415  for $26.00. There are similar models
> selling at Best Buy, and other stores for 69.00.  The only thing you
> have to deal with is that it does not come with is that you need to get
> black ink, it just comes with color.
> 
> I have been looking for a fast black and white printer for home and I've
> learned a couple of things...
> 
> You have to be *really* careful about buying a "cheap" printer.  In many
> cases the printer vendors have learned Gilette's lesson - give away the
> razor and charge for the blades.  You can get printers for next to
> nothing these days, but the ink can kick your butt in cost.  Expensive
> cartridges that don't last very long to not make a cheap printer.  :-(
> 
> I haven't really looked at that printer for ink prices, just a word to
> the wise.

For fast black and white, I would look into a used laser printer.
Toner powder is cheap.


_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

From brian at dangerbacon.com  Tue Mar 18 00:30:53 2008
From: brian at dangerbacon.com (Brian)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 00:30:53 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
In-Reply-To: <1205803278.15168.31.camel@bemus-tony.bemus>
References: <570605.11064.qm@web37909.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<1205803278.15168.31.camel@bemus-tony.bemus>
Message-ID: <200803180030.56282.brian@dangerbacon.com>

On Monday 17 March 2008 09:21:18 pm Tony Bemus wrote:
> I would be careful with this printer.  A quick google search found a
> Ubuntu user that had a problem with the same printer.
> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=707482
>
> I normal will only use HP printer,  Mine is a HP PSC2110 and it worked
> with out me having to do anything!  Ubuntu 7.10 recognized it and
> installed everything and I can scan and print.
>

Seconded, everything works perfectly with my HP PSC2410 as well.

-- 
Brian
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From tcameron at redhat.com  Tue Mar 18 00:31:51 2008
From: tcameron at redhat.com (Thomas Cameron (Red Hat))
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 23:31:51 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.1.00.0803172213050.11230@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <700572.70720.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<47DEE1C7.6090909@redhat.com>
	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803172213050.11230@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <47DF45B7.2090009@redhat.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Michael Corral wrote:
| 2008-03-17, Monsieur Thomas Cameron (Red Hat) a ecrit:
|> I have been looking for a fast black and white printer for home and I've
|> learned a couple of things...
|>
|> You have to be *really* careful about buying a "cheap" printer.
|
| The old HP laserjets are still the best for black&white, IMO.
|
| I got an old HP Laserjet 4 Plus from work for free, they scrapped it
| because we got some of those new big Xerox printer/copier/fax things.
| I've been using it for over a year now, it's been great. The print
| quality is so good. And you can get cheap ink cartridges for it on the
| interweb (about 1/3 the official retail price). I've seen some local
| places selling old used HP laserjets for cheap, I think that's the way
| to go.

I actually have an ancient LaserJet 4.  When I use the Linux Printing
Project PPD for it it is painfully slow - like 4ppm.  I read others were
having speed issues and "downgraded" to the LaserJet 3 definition to
speed it up.  I tried it and I am getting better speed, like 8-12 ppm
but I am interested in the new printers that do like 30-40 ppm black and
white.  The LaserJet 4 will never go that fast.
- --
Thomas Cameron, RHCE, RHCX, CNE, MCSE, MCT
Solutions Architect Team Lead, Central Region
512-241-0774 office / 512-585-5631 cell / 512-857-1345 fax

Red Hat rated #1 in value by CIOs for four years running:
http://www.redhat.com/about/news/prarchive/2007/CIO_Insight_Study.html
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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fmVTpGVRMIfvhGeKGeOYBvo=
=vAec
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From tesral at comcast.net  Tue Mar 18 01:10:59 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 01:10:59 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Forensic tools for photo manipulation
Message-ID: <47DF4EE3.2090308@comcast.net>

In light of our recent presentation an interesting if not totally
informative article on the direction digital forensic tools are heading.

http://www.technologyreview.com/Infotech/20423/?a=f

"Tools that analyze lighting are particularly useful because "lighting
is hard to fake" without leaving a trace, says Micah Kimo Johnson
<http://www.mit.edu/%7Ekimo/home/index.html>, a researcher in the brain-
and cognitive-sciences department at MIT, whose work includes designing
tools for digital forensics."

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From carl at carltm.com  Tue Mar 18 05:58:51 2008
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 05:58:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Anyone familiar with Qmail. I need some help.
In-Reply-To: <47DF0F9A.60707@twmi.rr.com>
References: <47DF0F9A.60707@twmi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <26518.216.144.215.245.1205834331.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

Jim wrote:
> I run a Qmail server using netqmail-1.05. This server has been running
> along fine until
> about the last 3 months. Now I find myself in a never ending pit of
> spam.

Jim, do you have any kind of web based form that generates
email?  What may be happening is that someone is sending
bad data to that form to generate email that appears to
come from other domains.  The remote server would send
qmail an undeliverable message, perhaps mentioning either
the fake source domain or the intended destination domain.
You would then receive the bounced mail message.

You may want to set up a sniffer to see what all connections
are leaving your server.

c




From peter at petertheplumber.net  Tue Mar 18 06:26:15 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 06:26:15 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
In-Reply-To: <276720.92793.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <276720.92793.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1205835975.29597.4.camel@peter-notebook.site>


On Mon, 2008-03-17 at 20:46 -0700, David Lane wrote:
> Currently I have My eyes on the HP 2605nd Color Laser Duplexing Networked. 
> 
> I have tp plan for it because it runs from 449 - 499. 
> 
> David 

Oooooooooh, shiney pretty I want ;) But seriously, my next one will be a
color laser. After spitting up the bucks for a Brother mono laser with
sheet feeder years ago, I'm never going back. Toner is cheap but I've
never replaced a cartridge yet. I would look at Brother again only
because they do provide drivers in rpm and deb and detailed instructions
on how to install. It's not as painless as HP though.

Best Regards,
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From relson at osagesoftware.com  Tue Mar 18 07:29:28 2008
From: relson at osagesoftware.com (David Relson)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 07:29:28 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
In-Reply-To: <1205835975.29597.4.camel@peter-notebook.site>
References: <276720.92793.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<1205835975.29597.4.camel@peter-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <20080318072928.19e62736@osage.osagesoftware.com>

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 06:26:15 -0400
Peter Bart wrote:

> 
> On Mon, 2008-03-17 at 20:46 -0700, David Lane wrote:
> > Currently I have My eyes on the HP 2605nd Color Laser Duplexing
> > Networked. 
> > 
> > I have tp plan for it because it runs from 449 - 499. 
> > 
> > David 
> 
> Oooooooooh, shiney pretty I want ;) But seriously, my next one will
> be a color laser. After spitting up the bucks for a Brother mono
> laser with sheet feeder years ago, I'm never going back. Toner is
> cheap but I've never replaced a cartridge yet. I would look at
> Brother again only because they do provide drivers in rpm and deb and
> detailed instructions on how to install. It's not as painless as HP
> though.

I've got a Brother networked black & white printer.  It works well
except for printing envelopes which feed in skewed.  

My old LaserJet did much better on envelopes but didn't have Linux
drivers hence was (generally) less useful.


From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Tue Mar 18 08:29:04 2008
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 08:29:04 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Export homedirs via NFS and Samba?
Message-ID: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE054BA50B@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

Is this a common setup?  I have an NFS/Samba server set up.  I am
currently exporting users' home directories.  I want the users to be
able to mount their home directories on UNIX or Windows, but here is the
issue I am having.  The server is joined to the domain MI.  I can export
/home/gwojtak via NFS just fine.  I can export [homes] in Samba just
fine.  The problem comes up with permissions - UNIX, of course just sets
ownership to gwojtak on newly created files.  If I try to access my home
directory via Samba, it is getting the expected winbind mangling,
'MI+gwojtak' and permission is denied to even pull up the UNC.  Changing
the ownership on the Samba server on /home/gwojtak to MI+gwojtak makes
it work properly on Windows, but then breaks NFS ownerships.

Is this not a good setup?  What am I doing wrong, or should I not even
be doing this?  It seems to me that this would be a common
implementation?  This is a Red HATE Enterprise Linux 5.1 server.


Thanks!

-- 
Greg Wojtak
http://www.yesthatsright.net/


From radkins at impelind.com  Tue Mar 18 08:32:38 2008
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 08:32:38 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Export homedirs via NFS and Samba?
In-Reply-To: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE054BA50B@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
Message-ID: <20080318123208.B5CEFC0CA@impelind.com>

Use Access Control Lists.

The Filesystem should definitely support that, just tweak that on the server
to support both the UNIX and the Domain permissions and away you go. (Or at
least, that's the theory...)

-Rob


> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Wojtak, Greg
> Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 8:29 AM
> To: mdlug at mdlug.org
> Subject: [mdlug] Export homedirs via NFS and Samba?
> 
> Is this a common setup?  I have an NFS/Samba server set up.  
> I am currently exporting users' home directories.  I want the 
> users to be able to mount their home directories on UNIX or 
> Windows, but here is the issue I am having.  The server is 
> joined to the domain MI.  I can export /home/gwojtak via NFS 
> just fine.  I can export [homes] in Samba just fine.  The 
> problem comes up with permissions - UNIX, of course just sets 
> ownership to gwojtak on newly created files.  If I try to 
> access my home directory via Samba, it is getting the 
> expected winbind mangling, 'MI+gwojtak' and permission is 
> denied to even pull up the UNC.  Changing the ownership on 
> the Samba server on /home/gwojtak to MI+gwojtak makes it work 
> properly on Windows, but then breaks NFS ownerships.
> 
> Is this not a good setup?  What am I doing wrong, or should I 
> not even be doing this?  It seems to me that this would be a 
> common implementation?  This is a Red HATE Enterprise Linux 
> 5.1 server.
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> --
> Greg Wojtak
> http://www.yesthatsright.net/
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 



From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 18 09:18:28 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 06:18:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
Message-ID: <267508.61070.qm@web37902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Duplex printing is important you save a bit of paper.  And there are a few cheaper laser printers that go fast the 1022 comes to mind.

David 


----- Original Message ----
From: Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 6:26:15 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?


On Mon, 2008-03-17 at 20:46 -0700, David Lane wrote:
> Currently I have My eyes on the HP 2605nd Color Laser Duplexing Networked. 
> 
> I have tp plan for it because it runs from 449 - 499. 
> 
> David 

Oooooooooh, shiney pretty I want ;) But seriously, my next one will be a
color laser. After spitting up the bucks for a Brother mono laser with
sheet feeder years ago, I'm never going back. Toner is cheap but I've
never replaced a cartridge yet. I would look at Brother again only
because they do provide drivers in rpm and deb and detailed instructions
on how to install. It's not as painless as HP though.

Best Regards,
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug






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From wolfger at gmail.com  Tue Mar 18 10:01:15 2008
From: wolfger at gmail.com (Wolfger)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 10:01:15 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Fwd: [Detroit-pm] Summer of Perl -- call for student
	proposals
In-Reply-To: <47DFB6F5.7060709@techrg.com>
References: <47DFB6F5.7060709@techrg.com>
Message-ID: <3b00b3330803180701g78f5ef46n6921e6f819e90381@mail.gmail.com>

FYI, if anybody is interested, or knows people in college who are interested.


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Bill Hess <bhess at techrg.com>
Date: Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 8:35 AM
Subject: [Detroit-pm] [pm_groups] Summer of Perl -- call for student proposals
To: detroit-pm at pm.org


Hi all,  Please forward this to your groups.  (Also feel free to break
 into a discussion as to whether or how students are involved in the
 perl community, what we can do to connect with more universities and
 etc.)


 The Perl Foundation is participating in Google's 2008 Summer of Code(tm)
 and we have a lot of capable, willing mentors looking forward to working
 with some talented, driven students.  So, we would like you to help
 find those students (and quickly -- the students must apply before
 March 24th.)

 This is a rare opportunity for students to get a chance to get a paid
 summer of hacking on exciting projects like Parrot, Perl 6, Moose,
 Jifty, SVK, Catalyst, or their very own Perl modules or applications.
 It also brings new talent into the community and gives the student a
 hefty "real world" experience with a knowledgable mentor.  Further,
 employers love to see this sort of demonstration of teamwork, handling
 deadlines, communication skills, resourcefulness and etc.

 We're looking for promising students who are interested in open source
 (or maybe you know someone who *should* be interested in open source.)
 Knowledge of Perl is optional if the project is Parrot-related.  The
 student doesn't need to be an expert in the problem domain (after all,
 learning is part of the process), but should bring a big pile of
 creativity, problem-solving skills, and determination.

 Students should review the page of suggested projects, but are
 encouraged to bring their own proposals (those are often the best.)
 The most important first step is getting in touch with the community
 and discussing their project idea with potential mentors.

   http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl5/index.cgi?gsoc2008_projects

 Additional information and links can be found here.

   http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl5/index.cgi?gsoc2008

 Google has posted some flyers if you happen to have a university
 bulletin board or hallway handy:

   http://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code/wiki/GsocFlyers

 Additional info:

   http://code.google.com/soc/2008/
   http://code.google.com/soc/2008/faqs.html

 (Note that google has particular requirements to do with the fact that
 they are paying the students.  The student must be able to show their
 eligibility regarding enrollment and employability.)

 Remember, the Perl community draws talent from many fields, so if you
 came to Perl from a non-computer-science major and still have contacts
 in that department from your university, it is probably worth
 mentioning to them.

 Thanks,
 Eric
 --
 Request pm.org Technical Support via support at pm.org

 pm_groups mailing list
 pm_groups at pm.org
 http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pm_groups

 _______________________________________________
 Detroit-pm mailing list
 Detroit-pm at pm.org
 http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/detroit-pm



-- 
Wolfger
http://wolfger.wordpress.com/
AOL IM: wolf4coyot
Yahoo!Messenger: wolfgersilberbaer


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Tue Mar 18 13:24:58 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:24:58 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] New MB passes the smoke test
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654C7@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

Got the parts assembled last night. I've given up on the SB Live, at least for
now - the Geforce 8600 GT video card's heatsink/fan sticks out far enough to
cover the neighboring PCI slot. I still don't have all the drives hooked up
yet (Garry, you still have that IDE controller?) but it boots and, with only one
CPU fan, is noticeably quieter than the old system.

 I was using an Ubuntu 7.10 live CD to test things, and there were a couple of
problems. It didn't get a network address (a bit of Googling indicates I can just
'restart' the networking and it should work) and apparently there's a bug in the
'powernowd' daemon that throttles the CPUs at all times. Both issues should be
workable. I still have to run memtest86 for a while, and make sure the RAM is
good - I got bitten badly by faulty laptop RAM once - but it looks good.

 I've got a spare 16GB partition I can install to for now, until I get both
drives going and can juggle some space around. Can't wait to get things really
going and do a test of the 3D card. :->

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                 (313) 227-2317

 The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable
  operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying
          to take over the world.  - Drakmere
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Tue Mar 18 13:54:58 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:54:58 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
In-Reply-To: <1205835975.29597.4.camel@peter-notebook.site>
References: <276720.92793.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<1205835975.29597.4.camel@peter-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803181054w78a25a41n6b8106bce0da8143@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 6:26 AM, Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:
>  Oooooooooh, shiney pretty I want ;) But seriously, my next one will be a
>  color laser. After spitting up the bucks for a Brother mono laser with
>  sheet feeder years ago, I'm never going back. Toner is cheap but I've
>  never replaced a cartridge yet. I would look at Brother again only
>  because they do provide drivers in rpm and deb and detailed instructions
>  on how to install. It's not as painless as HP though.

The printers I bought last fall during the Black Friday sales all worked well:
http://jhansonxi.blogspot.com/2007/11/my-linux-aspected-black-friday-assault.html

The Brother and HP inkjets had network support so they were easy.  I
had some trouble with getting the Samsung CLP-300 working on Ubuntu
Gutsy but Hardy has a open-source driver and all I did was plug it in.
 Color quality was adequate but all I've done so far is print a couple
of Penguicon posters.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Tue Mar 18 13:59:58 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:59:58 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] [OT]Facebook app
In-Reply-To: <58a4cf91ec77fd0665e1b641444095cd@localhost.localdomain>
References: <58a4cf91ec77fd0665e1b641444095cd@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803181059v5fe41b0fl7efb6d6716be4e91@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 5:42 AM, Deepan <codeshepherd at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
>  I just wrote a facebook application for playing
>  Sudoku.
>
>  Those interested..
>  http://apps.facebook.com/sudokusolver/
>
>  For non-facebook users:
>  http://www.sudoku-solver.net/

Nifty.  Now just make a 3D version.


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 18 14:01:32 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 11:01:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
Message-ID: <326095.40724.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

The photo Quality of the $26.00 HP was great.  

David 


----- Original Message ----
From: Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 1:54:58 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?

On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 6:26 AM, Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:
>  Oooooooooh, shiney pretty I want ;) But seriously, my next one will be a
>  color laser. After spitting up the bucks for a Brother mono laser with
>  sheet feeder years ago, I'm never going back. Toner is cheap but I've
>  never replaced a cartridge yet. I would look at Brother again only
>  because they do provide drivers in rpm and deb and detailed instructions
>  on how to install. It's not as painless as HP though.

The printers I bought last fall during the Black Friday sales all worked well:
http://jhansonxi.blogspot.com/2007/11/my-linux-aspected-black-friday-assault.html

The Brother and HP inkjets had network support so they were easy.  I
had some trouble with getting the Samsung CLP-300 working on Ubuntu
Gutsy but Hardy has a open-source driver and all I did was plug it in.
 Color quality was adequate but all I've done so far is print a couple
of Penguicon posters.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug






      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

From tcameron at redhat.com  Tue Mar 18 15:21:19 2008
From: tcameron at redhat.com (Thomas Cameron (Red Hat))
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:21:19 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Export homedirs via NFS and Samba?
In-Reply-To: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE054BA50B@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
References: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE054BA50B@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
Message-ID: <47E0162F.1070408@redhat.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Wojtak, Greg wrote:
| Is this a common setup?  I have an NFS/Samba server set up.  I am
| currently exporting users' home directories.  I want the users to be
| able to mount their home directories on UNIX or Windows, but here is the
| issue I am having.  The server is joined to the domain MI.  I can export
| /home/gwojtak via NFS just fine.  I can export [homes] in Samba just
| fine.  The problem comes up with permissions - UNIX, of course just sets
| ownership to gwojtak on newly created files.  If I try to access my home
| directory via Samba, it is getting the expected winbind mangling,
| 'MI+gwojtak' and permission is denied to even pull up the UNC.  Changing
| the ownership on the Samba server on /home/gwojtak to MI+gwojtak makes
| it work properly on Windows, but then breaks NFS ownerships.
|
| Is this not a good setup?  What am I doing wrong, or should I not even
| be doing this?  It seems to me that this would be a common
| implementation?  This is a Red HATE Enterprise Linux 5.1 server.

It's "Red Hat," not "Red HATE."

See http://people.redhat.com/tcameron for a step by step on how to set
up Samba and AD with ACLs on the filesystem.  It was written with Red
Hat Enterprise Linux 4 but it still works the same on Red Hat Enterprise
Linux 5.x.
- --
Thomas Cameron, RHCE, RHCX, CNE, MCSE, MCT
Solutions Architect Team Lead, Central Region
512-241-0774 office / 512-585-5631 cell / 512-857-1345 fax

Red Hat rated #1 in value by CIOs for four years running:
http://www.redhat.com/about/news/prarchive/2007/CIO_Insight_Study.html
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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=ZrgA
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Tue Mar 18 16:08:37 2008
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 16:08:37 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Export homedirs via NFS and Samba?
In-Reply-To: <47E0162F.1070408@redhat.com>
References: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE054BA50B@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<47E0162F.1070408@redhat.com>
Message-ID: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE054BA601@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

'It's "Red Hat," not "Red HATE."'

Apologies - inside joke between a friend of mine and me and I typed it
inadvertently.

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Thomas Cameron (Red Hat)
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 3:21 PM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Export homedirs via NFS and Samba?

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Wojtak, Greg wrote:
| Is this a common setup?  I have an NFS/Samba server set up.  I am
| currently exporting users' home directories.  I want the users to be
| able to mount their home directories on UNIX or Windows, but here is
the
| issue I am having.  The server is joined to the domain MI.  I can
export
| /home/gwojtak via NFS just fine.  I can export [homes] in Samba just
| fine.  The problem comes up with permissions - UNIX, of course just
sets
| ownership to gwojtak on newly created files.  If I try to access my
home
| directory via Samba, it is getting the expected winbind mangling,
| 'MI+gwojtak' and permission is denied to even pull up the UNC.
Changing
| the ownership on the Samba server on /home/gwojtak to MI+gwojtak makes
| it work properly on Windows, but then breaks NFS ownerships.
|
| Is this not a good setup?  What am I doing wrong, or should I not even
| be doing this?  It seems to me that this would be a common
| implementation?  This is a Red HATE Enterprise Linux 5.1 server.

It's "Red Hat," not "Red HATE."

See http://people.redhat.com/tcameron for a step by step on how to set
up Samba and AD with ACLs on the filesystem.  It was written with Red
Hat Enterprise Linux 4 but it still works the same on Red Hat Enterprise
Linux 5.x.
- --
Thomas Cameron, RHCE, RHCX, CNE, MCSE, MCT
Solutions Architect Team Lead, Central Region
512-241-0774 office / 512-585-5631 cell / 512-857-1345 fax

Red Hat rated #1 in value by CIOs for four years running:
http://www.redhat.com/about/news/prarchive/2007/CIO_Insight_Study.html
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFH4BYumzle50YHwaARAnmzAKCtqNVF07LrKQH4iUecKif9xqJAKACgof8h
PkZqM8LnBucaJONQo63FJDs=
=ZrgA
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From Bhaskar at anitej.com  Tue Mar 18 18:28:30 2008
From: Bhaskar at anitej.com (Bhaskar Navaneetham)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:28:30 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Export homedirs via NFS and Samba?
In-Reply-To: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE054BA50B@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
References: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE054BA50B@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
Message-ID: <14d67c8d0803181528y7ce81e45o285ce725380e2186@mail.gmail.com>

In my experience with redhat 4.0 Enterprise, the winbind is mandatory to
keep the hybrid network such as you have. but the unfortunate part to me
even though  i have premium support, redhat is not useful ( or the engineer
may be ). So my suggestion try with winbind or if its absolutely critical,
call the redhat team to help for your by blocking their minimal support.

Best of luck.

Bhaskar

On 18/03/2008, Wojtak, Greg <GregWojtak at quickenloans.com> wrote:
>
> Is this a common setup?  I have an NFS/Samba server set up.  I am
> currently exporting users' home directories.  I want the users to be
> able to mount their home directories on UNIX or Windows, but here is the
> issue I am having.  The server is joined to the domain MI.  I can export
> /home/gwojtak via NFS just fine.  I can export [homes] in Samba just
> fine.  The problem comes up with permissions - UNIX, of course just sets
> ownership to gwojtak on newly created files.  If I try to access my home
> directory via Samba, it is getting the expected winbind mangling,
> 'MI+gwojtak' and permission is denied to even pull up the UNC.  Changing
> the ownership on the Samba server on /home/gwojtak to MI+gwojtak makes
> it work properly on Windows, but then breaks NFS ownerships.
>
> Is this not a good setup?  What am I doing wrong, or should I not even
> be doing this?  It seems to me that this would be a common
> implementation?  This is a Red HATE Enterprise Linux 5.1 server.
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> --
> Greg Wojtak
> http://www.yesthatsright.net/
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Tue Mar 18 19:39:49 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 19:39:49 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
In-Reply-To: <20080318072928.19e62736@osage.osagesoftware.com>
References: <276720.92793.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<1205835975.29597.4.camel@peter-notebook.site>
	<20080318072928.19e62736@osage.osagesoftware.com>
Message-ID: <1205883589.29597.28.camel@peter-notebook.site>


On Tue, 2008-03-18 at 07:29 -0400, David Relson wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 06:26:15 -0400
> Peter Bart wrote:
> 
> > 
> > On Mon, 2008-03-17 at 20:46 -0700, David Lane wrote:
> > > Currently I have My eyes on the HP 2605nd Color Laser Duplexing
> > > Networked. 
> > > 
> > > I have tp plan for it because it runs from 449 - 499. 
> > > 
> > > David 
> > 
> > Oooooooooh, shiney pretty I want ;) But seriously, my next one will
> > be a color laser. After spitting up the bucks for a Brother mono
> > laser with sheet feeder years ago, I'm never going back. Toner is
> > cheap but I've never replaced a cartridge yet. I would look at
> > Brother again only because they do provide drivers in rpm and deb and
> > detailed instructions on how to install. It's not as painless as HP
> > though.
> 
> I've got a Brother networked black & white printer.  It works well
> except for printing envelopes which feed in skewed.  
> 
> My old LaserJet did much better on envelopes but didn't have Linux
> drivers hence was (generally) less useful.

	I've go a Brother DCP7020 that does okay on envelopes. I only
occasionally print an envelope so I use the sheet feed slot in the
front, not the tray for those. I'll get another multi or all in one
machine again. I love that scanner built in! I paid less than $200
several years ago and it's still going. I did replace a toner cartridge
once after all. I might go through a case and a half to two cases of
paper per year.


-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From lamber45 at msu.edu  Tue Mar 18 20:39:04 2008
From: lamber45 at msu.edu (David Lee Lambert)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 20:39:04 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Export homedirs via NFS and Samba?
References: <20080318123208.B5CEFC0CA@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <006901c88959$a2d9da60$090fa8c0@lmert.com>

Yes, that's a common setup, but if Greg has UNIX accounts for all users 
already,  why does he need winbind?

The "winbind trusted domains only" and "winbind trusted domains only" 
parameters sound like they might solve this kind of problem;  but I've never 
needed to use winbind.

Another possibility,  if his personal account is the only one with this 
problem,  is to edit /etc/passwd and change the uid for "gwojtak" to the one 
winbindd generated for "MI+gwojtak".  I have a computer where I sometimes 
want my home-directory to be local and sometimes want it to come in over 
NFS,  so I have a line in /etc/passwd "dLocal:1024:..." and a local path in 
the "home" column and another line "davidl:1024:...".


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert Adkins" <radkins at impelind.com>
To: "'MDLUG's Main discussion list'" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Export homedirs via NFS and Samba?


> Use Access Control Lists.
>
> The Filesystem should definitely support that, just tweak that on the 
> server
> to support both the UNIX and the Domain permissions and away you go. (Or 
> at
> least, that's the theory...)
>
> -Rob
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org
>> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Wojtak, Greg
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 8:29 AM
>> To: mdlug at mdlug.org
>> Subject: [mdlug] Export homedirs via NFS and Samba?
>>
>> Is this a common setup?  I have an NFS/Samba server set up.
>> I am currently exporting users' home directories.  I want the
>> users to be able to mount their home directories on UNIX or
>> Windows, but here is the issue I am having.  The server is
>> joined to the domain MI.  I can export /home/gwojtak via NFS
>> just fine.  I can export [homes] in Samba just fine.  The
>> problem comes up with permissions - UNIX, of course just sets
>> ownership to gwojtak on newly created files.  If I try to
>> access my home directory via Samba, it is getting the
>> expected winbind mangling, 'MI+gwojtak' and permission is
>> denied to even pull up the UNC.  Changing the ownership on
>> the Samba server on /home/gwojtak to MI+gwojtak makes it work
>> properly on Windows, but then breaks NFS ownerships.
>>
>> Is this not a good setup?  What am I doing wrong, or should I
>> not even be doing this?  It seems to me that this would be a
>> common implementation?  This is a Red HATE Enterprise Linux
>> 5.1 server.
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> --
>> Greg Wojtak
>> http://www.yesthatsright.net/
>> _______________________________________________
>> mdlug mailing list
>> mdlug at mdlug.org
>> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
> 



From lamber45 at msu.edu  Tue Mar 18 20:39:45 2008
From: lamber45 at msu.edu (David Lee Lambert)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 20:39:45 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Export homedirs via NFS and Samba?
References: <20080318123208.B5CEFC0CA@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <006a01c88959$baea96d0$090fa8c0@lmert.com>

Yes, that's a common setup, but if Greg has UNIX accounts for all users 
already,  why does he need winbind?

The "winbind trusted domains only" and "winbind trusted domains only" 
parameters sound like they might solve this kind of problem;  but I've never 
needed to use winbind.

Another possibility,  if his personal account is the only one with this 
problem,  is to edit /etc/passwd and change the uid for "gwojtak" to the one 
winbindd generated for "MI+gwojtak".  I have a computer where I sometimes 
want my home-directory to be local and sometimes want it to come in over 
NFS,  so I have a line in /etc/passwd "dLocal:1024:..." and a local path in 
the "home" column and another line "davidl:1024:...".


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert Adkins" <radkins at impelind.com>
To: "'MDLUG's Main discussion list'" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Export homedirs via NFS and Samba?


> Use Access Control Lists.
>
> The Filesystem should definitely support that, just tweak that on the 
> server
> to support both the UNIX and the Domain permissions and away you go. (Or 
> at
> least, that's the theory...)
>
> -Rob
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org
>> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Wojtak, Greg
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 8:29 AM
>> To: mdlug at mdlug.org
>> Subject: [mdlug] Export homedirs via NFS and Samba?
>>
>> Is this a common setup?  I have an NFS/Samba server set up.
>> I am currently exporting users' home directories.  I want the
>> users to be able to mount their home directories on UNIX or
>> Windows, but here is the issue I am having.  The server is
>> joined to the domain MI.  I can export /home/gwojtak via NFS
>> just fine.  I can export [homes] in Samba just fine.  The
>> problem comes up with permissions - UNIX, of course just sets
>> ownership to gwojtak on newly created files.  If I try to
>> access my home directory via Samba, it is getting the
>> expected winbind mangling, 'MI+gwojtak' and permission is
>> denied to even pull up the UNC.  Changing the ownership on
>> the Samba server on /home/gwojtak to MI+gwojtak makes it work
>> properly on Windows, but then breaks NFS ownerships.
>>
>> Is this not a good setup?  What am I doing wrong, or should I
>> not even be doing this?  It seems to me that this would be a
>> common implementation?  This is a Red HATE Enterprise Linux
>> 5.1 server.
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> --
>> Greg Wojtak
>> http://www.yesthatsright.net/
>> _______________________________________________
>> mdlug mailing list
>> mdlug at mdlug.org
>> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
> 



From jbroughton at twmi.rr.com  Tue Mar 18 23:17:39 2008
From: jbroughton at twmi.rr.com (Jim)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 23:17:39 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Anyone familiar with Qmail. I need some help.
In-Reply-To: <26518.216.144.215.245.1205834331.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
References: <47DF0F9A.60707@twmi.rr.com>
	<26518.216.144.215.245.1205834331.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <47E085D3.9050505@twmi.rr.com>

Carl T. Miller wrote:
> Jim wrote:
>   
>> I run a Qmail server using netqmail-1.05. This server has been running
>> along fine until
>> about the last 3 months. Now I find myself in a never ending pit of
>> spam.
>>     
>
> Jim, do you have any kind of web based form that generates
> email?  What may be happening is that someone is sending
> bad data to that form to generate email that appears to
> come from other domains.  The remote server would send
> qmail an undeliverable message, perhaps mentioning either
> the fake source domain or the intended destination domain.
> You would then receive the bounced mail message.
>
> You may want to set up a sniffer to see what all connections
> are leaving your server.
>
> c
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>   
Thanks I had not thought of that. It is a definite possibility.
I did however spot a small yet possible error in my tcp.smtp file.
I also throttled port 25 to 3 hits per minute per ip address.
Since this is in a small business 3 hits per minute should be ok.
With these fixes in place email hits today fell off considerably.
Less than 200 hits that actualy got through to the qmail-smtpd server
software verses around 10000+ a day before that. I also had to
get my server ip removed from 2 rbl lists because of this crap.
If you thought spam was aggravating as a user it is far more so
as a server admin.


  Thanks to all that replied. Is this formatting better Aaron?

Jim B.



From driveray at ameritech.net  Wed Mar 19 00:56:25 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 00:56:25 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] President's Mail bag
Message-ID: <47E09CF9.3080400@ameritech.net>

Passed along without comment

> Hi Raymond,
>  
> My name is Neftali Millan, Technical Recruiter for  Sapphire Technologies.
> I specialize in networking with the top 10% of Engineering Professionals 
> in North America. I was informed that I would be able to find experts in 
> the field at this user group. I am conducting a search currently for a 
> Senior Embedded Linux Software Engineer to take on a permanent position 
> in Rochester Hills, MI. The opportunity involves working directly for a 
> stable organization that is demonstrating tremendous growth and stability.
> I would appreciate any direction you could point me in. 
> Regards,
> 
> Neftali Millan
> Technical Recruiter 
> Sapphire Technologies
> 2800 Livernois Rd Suite 560
> Troy, MI 48083
>  
> Office: (248) 528-1200  ext. 2160 
> Fax: (248) 528-3103
>  
> 
> REFER YOUR FRIENDS AND MAKE MONEY!!!
> 
> Checkout the details of our New & Improved Referral Bonus Plan on Sapphire.com
> 
> $500 for the first referral
> 
> $750 for the second referral
> 
> $1000 for the third + referral
>  
>  
>  
>  


From driveray at ameritech.net  Wed Mar 19 03:14:20 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 03:14:20 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] BIOS viruses ? Oh my!
Message-ID: <47E0BD4C.2060003@ameritech.net>

MDLUGers:

I came across this on another list, and thought it extra-ordinary enough
to pass all here. This concludes a thread



> On Thu, 2008-03-06 at 15:36 -0500, Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
>> > john-thomas richards wrote:
>>> > > On Tue, Nov 20, 2007 at 03:18:01PM -0500, john-thomas richards wrote:
>>>> > >> I am helping a friend with his non-profit's computer (he runs an inner-city
>>> > > [snip]
>>> > > 
>>> > > After pouring much time into this, it has been determined that this
>>> > > (and the other two) motherboard has a very special and very specific
>>> > > failure that keeps it from booting a GUI.  (Mad props to Greg F. for
>>> > > all his help.  He is a Very. Smart. Guy.  Thank you!)  So my friend
>>> > > with the non-profit ministry has some nice hardware but no
>>> > > motherboards.  He was recently offered some more computers by another
>>> > > donor so I thought, hey, why not make a nice server out of the
>>> > > hardware?  To cut this short, dual-Pentium III motherboards are a rare
>>> > > find these days (nada on eBay).  Any of you guys have one (I have the
>>> > > processors  :-)  for sale?
>> > 
>> > Please forgive me if you've already "been there and done that", but have
>> > you tried installing Linux on these things? I know you need Windows
>> > eventually, but if you can get a light enough weight Linux up and into
>> > graphical mode, a VMWare Player session could provide you with the
>> > Windows functionality you need. Pentium IIIs are kind of at the low end
>> > of what will run XP in a VM. But, as I said, a light weight (i.e. low
>> > resource demanding) Linux should be able to leave plenty for office work
>> >  in an XP VM. In this case more RAM is really better than a second CPU.
>> > Pentium IIIs start at (I think) 500MHz. I hope you  have at least 750's.
> 
> Just to let everyone know... I have a beaten these machines from nearly
> every way possible.
> 
> The only thing that works is a Linux Distro that DOES NOT change the
> Video Mode... and then only until a reboot and only until it sets
> "console fonts". Only the older installs got to a point of login. but
> eventually DPMS blanking would lock it up.
> 
> For the record, here are the things I did:
>       * updated the BIOS, which brought back most functionality for a
>         while, until a hard lock froze everything up... which turned out
>         to be DPMS screen blanking
>       * Tried an 800MHz PentiumIII Coppermine processor, a 1GHz
>         PentiumIII processor, a 1.13GHz PentiumIII processor
>       * Completely different RAM, motherboard capable of 2 sticks,
>         everywhere from 32MB to 1GB, different speeds
>       * Hard Drives in sizes from 2GB through 120GB, ATA-3 through ATA-6
>       * 4 CD-Drives, 2 DVD drives
>       * Video cards: Matrox AGP and PCI cards, ATI Rage 128 through
>         Radeon 7500, nVidia nv8 through nv27 chipsets, S3 cards, Diamond
>         PCI and others
>       * New NICs: about 15 different 3Com cards, 10 different Intel E100
>         cards, numerous D-Link, many different other chipsets as well.
>       * three different power supplies.
> 
> And here are the things I ran to see what I could find:
> 
>       * KNOPPIX in text mode
>       * LIVE-CDs out the wazoo
>       * 5 different rescue CDs and the myriad of diags they had, any
>         that change the Video mode locked hard.
>       * 7 different Distros of Linux and BSDs and a myrid of versions:
>               * Debian v2.0 through current SID
>               * Redhat V4.0 through v9.0
>               * CentOS v2.1 through v5.1
>               * Turbolinux Only one version...
>               * Slackware Pro(1996) through 11
>               * FreeBSD 3.5, 4.11, 5.5, 6.3 but not 7.
>               * NetBSD 1.4.3, 1.5.3, 1.6.2, 2.1, 3.1
> 
> 
> Now, my feeling here is that these machine when running Windows came
> across a site that was probably compromised and the compromiser had it
> in for any IBM hardware. Created a BIOS hack and got it to load via
> Active-Hex via Infernal Exploiter or Lookout... voila, unfixable
> machine.
> 
> Since these machine were probably in used one after another as they
> failed... all going to the same place, well they all broke the same way.
> 
> Side story:
> I had an experience one time with some serious IBM Servers with a 5
> channel IBM-ServeRAID card in it. IBM replaced the drives, the DASD, the
> cage backplanes the processors the memory, pretty much everything except
> the RAID Controller.
> 
> IBM eventually replaced the whole machine with a newer faster machine.
> Five weeks later they finally got back to me, stating that they finally
> changed out the $7K RAID controller, there was a Firmware Virus in it.
> It was very specific. And the way the thing got on there was when the
> original image of Windows on the machine hadn't been updated and when to
> some type of a spoof "IBM" site (of which there were many at the time)
> and it installed an update using IE v4. something.
> 
> Summary:
> So... I do know that many people have a serious attitude towards IBM. so
> it is possible these Netvistas fall into that category, they were
> work-horses for MANY companies, which ticked many people off. And
> there-in I believe is what happened.
> 
> Now these machine are well made, look decent, are quiet enough and
> easily dealt with. except the motherboard is very specifically borkened.
> 
> Sooo... there you go.
> -- greg at gregfolkert.net PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05 Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74 E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0 Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA 29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Wed Mar 19 09:50:03 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:50:03 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] BIOS viruses ? Oh my!
In-Reply-To: <47E0BD4C.2060003@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654CD@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Raymond McLaughlin
> >>> > > On Tue, Nov 20, 2007 at 03:18:01PM -0500, john-thomas 
> richards wrote:
> >>> > > After pouring much time into this, it has been determined that this
> >>> > > (and the other two) motherboard has a very special and very specific
> >>> > > failure that keeps it from booting a GUI.

> > Now, my feeling here is that these machine when running Windows came
> > across a site that was probably compromised and the compromiser had it
> > in for any IBM hardware. Created a BIOS hack and got it to load via
> > Active-Hex via Infernal Exploiter or Lookout... voila, unfixable
> > machine.

 And not cleared by a BIOS update? I won't say it's impossible, but I'd guess
it more likely that there was a bad production run - perhaps a dodgy capacitor
was used. Switching video modes is a lot harder on a monitor than a video
processor, but it still does draw some current and would send some surges into
the lines. Normally this wouldn't be a problem, but if the filters on the lines
didn't handle the ringing, or allowed some signal to leak onto other lines...

 That'd be the kind of thing that'd take a while to show up, but in a batch
of machines that were all used in similar ways, they might flake out the same
way at roughly the same time.

 One possible thing to try - a video mode switch without a monitor connected?
That'd change the load significantly... these things might make useful
headless servers if that were the case.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                             (313) 227-2317

  "Real faith, you see, leads us to deeper reflection and not -- not
 ever -- to the thing we as humans so very much want: Easy certainty."
                           - Jim Wallis
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Wed Mar 19 10:00:06 2008
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 10:00:06 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Export homedirs via NFS and Samba?
In-Reply-To: <006a01c88959$baea96d0$090fa8c0@lmert.com>
References: <20080318123208.B5CEFC0CA@impelind.com>
	<006a01c88959$baea96d0$090fa8c0@lmert.com>
Message-ID: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE054BA679@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

Solution found?!

I am still using winbind.  In my [homes] section, I have the following:

[homes]
        comment = Home Directories
        browseable = no
        writable = yes
        force user = %S


I added the force user to force the UNIX permissions to be the name of
the service, in this case the username and name of the home directories
match up.

Comments?  I'm curious what other people think of this - limitations
(other than the obvious of having the username have to match the home
directory name).

Thanks!

Greg
http://www.yesthatsright.net/

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of David Lee Lambert
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 8:40 PM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Export homedirs via NFS and Samba?

Yes, that's a common setup, but if Greg has UNIX accounts for all users 
already,  why does he need winbind?

The "winbind trusted domains only" and "winbind trusted domains only" 
parameters sound like they might solve this kind of problem;  but I've
never 
needed to use winbind.

Another possibility,  if his personal account is the only one with this 
problem,  is to edit /etc/passwd and change the uid for "gwojtak" to the
one 
winbindd generated for "MI+gwojtak".  I have a computer where I
sometimes 
want my home-directory to be local and sometimes want it to come in over

NFS,  so I have a line in /etc/passwd "dLocal:1024:..." and a local path
in 
the "home" column and another line "davidl:1024:...".


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert Adkins" <radkins at impelind.com>
To: "'MDLUG's Main discussion list'" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Export homedirs via NFS and Samba?


> Use Access Control Lists.
>
> The Filesystem should definitely support that, just tweak that on the 
> server
> to support both the UNIX and the Domain permissions and away you go.
(Or 
> at
> least, that's the theory...)
>
> -Rob
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org
>> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Wojtak, Greg
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 8:29 AM
>> To: mdlug at mdlug.org
>> Subject: [mdlug] Export homedirs via NFS and Samba?
>>
>> Is this a common setup?  I have an NFS/Samba server set up.
>> I am currently exporting users' home directories.  I want the
>> users to be able to mount their home directories on UNIX or
>> Windows, but here is the issue I am having.  The server is
>> joined to the domain MI.  I can export /home/gwojtak via NFS
>> just fine.  I can export [homes] in Samba just fine.  The
>> problem comes up with permissions - UNIX, of course just sets
>> ownership to gwojtak on newly created files.  If I try to
>> access my home directory via Samba, it is getting the
>> expected winbind mangling, 'MI+gwojtak' and permission is
>> denied to even pull up the UNC.  Changing the ownership on
>> the Samba server on /home/gwojtak to MI+gwojtak makes it work
>> properly on Windows, but then breaks NFS ownerships.
>>
>> Is this not a good setup?  What am I doing wrong, or should I
>> not even be doing this?  It seems to me that this would be a
>> common implementation?  This is a Red HATE Enterprise Linux
>> 5.1 server.
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> --
>> Greg Wojtak
>> http://www.yesthatsright.net/
>> _______________________________________________
>> mdlug mailing list
>> mdlug at mdlug.org
>> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
> 

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From rrclark at rrclark.net  Wed Mar 19 14:22:21 2008
From: rrclark at rrclark.net (Rich Clark <rrclark@rrclark.net>)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:22:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] BIOS viruses ? Oh my!
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654CD@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654CD@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.1.00.0803191416470.15046@rich.private.rrclark.net>

On Wed, 19 Mar 2008, Ingles, Raymond wrote:

>> From: Raymond McLaughlin
>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 20, 2007 at 03:18:01PM -0500, john-thomas
>> richards wrote:
>>>>>>> After pouring much time into this, it has been determined that this
>>>>>>> (and the other two) motherboard has a very special and very specific
>>>>>>> failure that keeps it from booting a GUI.
>
>>> Now, my feeling here is that these machine when running Windows came
>>> across a site that was probably compromised and the compromiser had it
>>> in for any IBM hardware. Created a BIOS hack and got it to load via
>>> Active-Hex via Infernal Exploiter or Lookout... voila, unfixable
>>> machine.
>
> And not cleared by a BIOS update? I won't say it's impossible, but I'd guess
> it more likely that there was a bad production run - perhaps a dodgy capacitor
> was used. Switching video modes is a lot harder on a monitor than a video
> processor, but it still does draw some current and would send some surges into
> the lines. Normally this wouldn't be a problem, but if the filters on the lines
> didn't handle the ringing, or allowed some signal to leak onto other lines...
>
> That'd be the kind of thing that'd take a while to show up, but in a batch
> of machines that were all used in similar ways, they might flake out the same
> way at roughly the same time.
>
> One possible thing to try - a video mode switch without a monitor connected?
> That'd change the load significantly... these things might make useful
> headless servers if that were the case.

You have to take into account the age of the hardware, too. Correct me if 
I'm wrong, but PIII processors and associated hardware were brand spanking 
new and fresh to market in 1997-1998 and only stayed on market for about 
4-5 years. We're talking about 10 years age for most of that gear, and 
even with them sitting on a shelf unpowered and boxed/wrapped capacitors 
are going to corrode, leak and dry out.

I think someone's pulling your leg about the BIOS virus, though. I haven't 
heard anything credible about a BIOS virus since about 1992 or 1993.


From tesral at comcast.net  Wed Mar 19 16:11:49 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 16:11:49 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] BIOS viruses ? Oh my!
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.1.00.0803191416470.15046@rich.private.rrclark.net>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654CD@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<alpine.LRH.1.00.0803191416470.15046@rich.private.rrclark.net>
Message-ID: <47E17385.7010705@comcast.net>

Rich Clark <rrclark at rrclark.net> wrote:
> You have to take into account the age of the hardware, too. Correct me if 
> I'm wrong, but PIII processors and associated hardware were brand spanking 
> new and fresh to market in 1997-1998 and only stayed on market for about 
> 4-5 years. We're talking about 10 years age for most of that gear, and 
> even with them sitting on a shelf unpowered and boxed/wrapped capacitors 
> are going to corrode, leak and dry out.
>
> I think someone's pulling your leg about the BIOS virus, though. I haven't 
> heard anything credible about a BIOS virus since about 1992 or 1993.
>   

And the PIII boards were bad for bad caps.  I lost one to no less that
six blown caps on one board.



-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Wed Mar 19 16:14:56 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 16:14:56 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: [opensuse-offtopic] Help Bruce get on the board of
	OSI]
Message-ID: <47E17440.7090903@hotpop.com>



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [opensuse-offtopic] Help Bruce get on the board of OSI
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:48:50 -0500
From: JB2 <yonaton at localnet.com>
To: opensuse-offtopic at opensuse.org


--------------------
I need you to help me protect Open Source. Would you please visit
<http://techp.org/p/7/>
read the message there, and sign it?


     Many Thanks,

     Bruce Perens

Bruce Perens / 1563 Solano Ave. / PMB 349 / Berkeley CA 94707 USA /
--------------------


-- 
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little 
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
         Benjamin Franklin

Religion - it's not just for breakfast anymore...murderers,
dictators, child  molesters and all other similar ilk use
it daily too!




From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Wed Mar 19 16:26:14 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 16:26:14 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] New MB passes the smoke test
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654C7@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654D2@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Ingles, Raymond

> It didn't get a network address (a bit of Googling  indicates I can just
> 'restart' the networking and it should work) and apparently 
> there's a bug in the 'powernowd' daemon that throttles the CPUs at all times.

 Well, restarting the network didn't work. What worked was plugging the network
cable directly into the Linksys firewall instead of a 10/100 hub. The hub itself
may be bad - the Windows box my wife uses didn't work on the net when plugged
into the hub.

 Anyone heard of a problem with gigabit cards making 10/100 hubs flake out?

 Fortunately, the powernowd thing has apparently been fixed - the CPU frequency
scaled quite well, as it should.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                                    (313) 227-2317

 "I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of the freedom of the
 people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent
             and sudden usurpations." - James Madison, 1788
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From tesral at comcast.net  Wed Mar 19 16:34:27 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 16:34:27 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] New MB passes the smoke test
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654D2@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654D2@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <47E178D3.6040804@comcast.net>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>> From: Ingles, Raymond
>>     
>
>   
>> It didn't get a network address (a bit of Googling  indicates I can just
>> 'restart' the networking and it should work) and apparently 
>> there's a bug in the 'powernowd' daemon that throttles the CPUs at all times.
>>     
>
>  Well, restarting the network didn't work. What worked was plugging the network
> cable directly into the Linksys firewall instead of a 10/100 hub. The hub itself
> may be bad - the Windows box my wife uses didn't work on the net when plugged
> into the hub.
>
>  Anyone heard of a problem with gigabit cards making 10/100 hubs flake out?
>
>  Fortunately, the powernowd thing has apparently been fixed - the CPU frequency
> scaled quite well, as it should.
>   

Hey they break. I had to replace my last year.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From tesral at comcast.net  Wed Mar 19 16:35:09 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 16:35:09 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: [opensuse-offtopic] Help Bruce get on the board
 of	OSI]
In-Reply-To: <47E17440.7090903@hotpop.com>
References: <47E17440.7090903@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <47E178FD.3080004@comcast.net>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [opensuse-offtopic] Help Bruce get on the board of OSI
> Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:48:50 -0500
> From: JB2 <yonaton at localnet.com>
> To: opensuse-offtopic at opensuse.org
>
>
> --------------------
> I need you to help me protect Open Source. Would you please visit
> <http://techp.org/p/7/>
> read the message there, and sign it?
>
>
>      Many Thanks,
>
>      Bruce Perens
>
> Bruce Perens / 1563 Solano Ave. / PMB 349 / Berkeley CA 94707 USA /
> --------------------
>
>
>   
Details, reasons?

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Wed Mar 19 16:53:58 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 16:53:58 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: [opensuse-offtopic] Help Bruce get on the board
 of	OSI]
In-Reply-To: <47E178FD.3080004@comcast.net>
References: <47E17440.7090903@hotpop.com> <47E178FD.3080004@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <47E17D66.5010002@hotpop.com>

Garry Stahl wrote:
> Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: [opensuse-offtopic] Help Bruce get on the board of OSI
>> Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:48:50 -0500
>> From: JB2 <yonaton at localnet.com>
>> To: opensuse-offtopic at opensuse.org
>> --------------------
>> I need you to help me protect Open Source. Would you please visit
>> <http://techp.org/p/7/>  read the message there, and sign it?
>>
>>      Many Thanks,
>>      Bruce Perens
>>
>> Bruce Perens / 1563 Solano Ave. / PMB 349 / Berkeley CA 94707 USA /
>> --------------------
>>   
> Details, reasons?
>


All I know is what's in the link.





From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Wed Mar 19 17:01:56 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 17:01:56 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] BIOS viruses ? Oh my!
In-Reply-To: <47E17385.7010705@comcast.net>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654CD@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<alpine.LRH.1.00.0803191416470.15046@rich.private.rrclark.net>
	<47E17385.7010705@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <47E17F44.8020804@hotpop.com>

Garry Stahl wrote:
> Rich Clark <rrclark at rrclark.net> wrote:
>> You have to take into account the age of the hardware, too. Correct me if 
>> I'm wrong, but PIII processors and associated hardware were brand spanking 
>> new and fresh to market in 1997-1998 and only stayed on market for about 
>> 4-5 years. We're talking about 10 years age for most of that gear, and 
>> even with them sitting on a shelf unpowered and boxed/wrapped capacitors 
>> are going to corrode, leak and dry out.
>>
>> I think someone's pulling your leg about the BIOS virus, though. I haven't 
>> heard anything credible about a BIOS virus since about 1992 or 1993.
>>   
> 
> And the PIII boards were bad for bad caps.  I lost one to no less that
> six blown caps on one board.

During that era, I had an MB go bad.

I was disappointed when I looked for bad caps and couldn't
find any, as I definitely would have preferred replacing a
few leaky caps to replacing the whole MB.




From codeshepherd at gmail.com  Wed Mar 19 18:07:31 2008
From: codeshepherd at gmail.com (Deepan)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 03:37:31 +0530
Subject: [mdlug] Sendmail configuration
Message-ID: <a60aae67997b8cf34315570040913e9b@localhost.localdomain>

Hi All,
I am using sendmail via php mail function to send
emails. However few servers reject my mails with
the error 'Sender address rejected: Domain not
found', since mails from my server are sent as
email at localhost.localdomain. How do I change this
to a valid domain name ? We only own a public IP.
we dont really have a domain name, is it possible
to use IP ? 
Regards
Deepan
Facebook Sudoku Solver:
http://apps.facebook.com/sudokusolver/ 
Sudoku Solver: http://www.sudoku-solver.net/ 
Home Page: http://www.codeshepherd/ 




From peter at petertheplumber.net  Wed Mar 19 19:30:18 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 19:30:18 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] New MB passes the smoke test
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654D2@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654D2@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <1205969418.19082.1.camel@peter-notebook.site>


On Wed, 2008-03-19 at 16:26 -0400, Ingles, Raymond wrote:
> > From: Ingles, Raymond
> 
> > It didn't get a network address (a bit of Googling  indicates I can just
> > 'restart' the networking and it should work) and apparently 
> > there's a bug in the 'powernowd' daemon that throttles the CPUs at all times.
> 
>  Well, restarting the network didn't work. What worked was plugging the network
> cable directly into the Linksys firewall instead of a 10/100 hub. The hub itself
> may be bad - the Windows box my wife uses didn't work on the net when plugged
> into the hub.
> 
>  Anyone heard of a problem with gigabit cards making 10/100 hubs flake out?
> 
>  Fortunately, the powernowd thing has apparently been fixed - the CPU frequency
> scaled quite well, as it should.
> 
>  Sincerely,
> 
>  Ray Ingles                                                    (313) 227-2317

	Glad to hear things are working out!

-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Wed Mar 19 19:17:04 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 19:17:04 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Sendmail configuration
In-Reply-To: <a60aae67997b8cf34315570040913e9b@localhost.localdomain>
References: <a60aae67997b8cf34315570040913e9b@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <47E19EF0.3090404@hotpop.com>

Deepan wrote:
> Hi All,
> I am using sendmail via php mail function to send
> emails. However few servers reject my mails with
> the error 'Sender address rejected: Domain not
> found', since mails from my server are sent as
> email at localhost.localdomain. How do I change this
> to a valid domain name ? We only own a public IP.
> we dont really have a domain name, is it possible
> to use IP ?

Tangential comment:

First rule of sendmail debugging -- go download and
install the latest version of sendmail before
doing anything else.




From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Wed Mar 19 21:52:57 2008
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 21:52:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Sendmail configuration
Message-ID: <7405866.1205977977954.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

-----Original Message-----
>From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis3 at hotpop.com>
>Sent: Mar 19, 2008 7:17 PM
>To: Deepan <codeshepherd at gmail.com>, MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>Subject: Re: [mdlug] Sendmail configuration
>
>Deepan wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> I am using sendmail via php mail function to send
>> emails. However few servers reject my mails with
>> the error 'Sender address rejected: Domain not
>> found', since mails from my server are sent as
>> email at localhost.localdomain. How do I change this
>> to a valid domain name ? We only own a public IP.
>> we dont really have a domain name, is it possible
>> to use IP ?
>
>Tangential comment:
>
>First rule of sendmail debugging -- go download and
>install the latest version of sendmail before
>doing anything else.
>

Slightly better suggestion...
Dump Sendmail and replace with something less pathological, such as Postfix.  But if you are a masochist, then download and compile the latest version of Sendmail.

-Mike


From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Wed Mar 19 22:54:21 2008
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Robert Meier)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 22:54:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Sendmail configuration
In-Reply-To: <47E19EF0.3090404@hotpop.com> (message from Aaron Kulkis on Wed, 
	19 Mar 2008 19:17:04 -0400)
References: <a60aae67997b8cf34315570040913e9b@localhost.localdomain>
	<47E19EF0.3090404@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <20080320025421.02C77127D3E@starfox.local>

Deepan,

> First rule of sendmail debugging -- go download and
> install the latest version of sendmail before
> doing anything else.

Second rule of sendmail debugging -- read RFC 2822, and then the
comments (not the code) in the sendmail.cf file.

After the above, you will probably want to use your distributions
mail transport agent configurator (e.g. yast2 mail for SuSE)
rather than change the domain setting "Dj" (j for ??? ) directly.

>> However [a] few servers reject my mails with
>> the error 'Sender address rejected: Domain not
>> found' since mails from my server are sent as
> email at localhost.localdomain.

localhost.* is not a valid host identifier,
it is a reserved name for the host where it is being used.
Like ip address 0.0.0.0 or "resident" on a smail envelope,
it is only a placeholder.

These servers are trying to cut down internet spam by
rejecting mail sent anonymously.

> We only own a public IP [address].

Your domain name is normally that of your ISP.
(If in doubt, ask your ISP.)

> We dont really have a domain name, is it possible to use IP [address]? 

You can use your IP address, but sites that reject anonymous mail
(e.g. localhost.*), will probably also reject any ip address
without an MX record.

Hopefully helpful,
-- 
Bob

  "Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that,
   once it is competently programmed and working smoothly,
   it is completely honest."
     -- Isaac Asimov


From tesral at comcast.net  Thu Mar 20 13:32:07 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 13:32:07 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] USB dilemma
Message-ID: <47E29F97.4060103@comcast.net>

Okay.  the problem is solved, but I am wondering what caused it.

I have a four gig flash drive.  It was slightly corrupted in that it has
several files that would not delete as they "didn't exist" but were
still there.  I reformatted the drive in Suse 9.3 with fat 32.

Since then every time I plugged that drive in the USB port it locked the
computer solid.  Reset button required.  Other flash drives did not do
this.   I could boot the computer with the drive in place and it would
work.  I could remove it no problem

I put the drive into the XP box, no problem.  I reformatted it with the
XP tools and the problem vanished.

Does anyone have an idea WHY?

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Thu Mar 20 14:34:35 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 14:34:35 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] USB dilemma
In-Reply-To: <47E29F97.4060103@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654D9@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Garry Stahl

> I reformatted the drive in Suse 9.3 with fat 32. Since then every time
> I plugged that drive in the USB port it locked the computer solid.
[...]
> I put the drive into the XP box, no problem.  I reformatted it with the
> XP tools and the problem vanished.
> 
> Does anyone have an idea WHY?

 Did you change the partition type in the partition table? I could see if it was
labeled ntfs or ext3 but contained fat32, it might trigger a bug. Windows
doesn't support much of anything in terms of filesystems, so it might not be
as senstive to the partition type.

 Just a guess...

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                          (313) 227-2317

  One of the real motives for the invasion of Iraq was to give the
   world a demonstration of American power. It's a measure of how
 badly things have gone that now we're told we can't leave because
 that would be a demonstration of American weakness. - Paul Krugman
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Mar 20 15:20:09 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 15:20:09 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] USB dilemma
In-Reply-To: <47E29F97.4060103@comcast.net>
References: <47E29F97.4060103@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803201220n48e1626ex1864f451722affa6@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 1:32 PM, Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:
> Okay.  the problem is solved, but I am wondering what caused it.
>
>  I have a four gig flash drive.  It was slightly corrupted in that it has
>  several files that would not delete as they "didn't exist" but were
>  still there.  I reformatted the drive in Suse 9.3 with fat 32.
>
>  Since then every time I plugged that drive in the USB port it locked the
>  computer solid.  Reset button required.  Other flash drives did not do
>  this.   I could boot the computer with the drive in place and it would
>  work.  I could remove it no problem

Did you try the magic SysRq keys (Alt-SysRq-REISUB)?  That would tell
you if the Kernel actually locked vs. just X.  Normally if the kernel
panics then it flashes the keyboard keys repeatedly.  You could also
try to SSH in from another system.

I'm having problems with a SanDisk Cruzer 4GB USB flash drive.  I
formatted it ext3 and created a subdirectory with 777 permissions so I
could read/write from any account on any system.  ext3 is better than
vfat because it's more efficient (vfat has ridiculously large cluster
sizes on 4GB) and can handle characters the vfat can't (like colons).
But on some PCs I tried it with I couldn't copy files off
successfully.  Nautilus (Ubuntu Gutsy) would abort and the drive would
unmount.  I haven't figured out that one yet.

Interestingly, the SanDisk packaging shows the penguin for Linux
compatibility but for Vista its a sticker.


From Stan at mcomputersolutions.com  Thu Mar 20 19:48:03 2008
From: Stan at mcomputersolutions.com (Stan Green)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 19:48:03 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] USB dilemma
In-Reply-To: <47E29F97.4060103@comcast.net>
References: <47E29F97.4060103@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <200803201948.03233.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>

By any chance are you running lm_sensors? I just had a lock-up issue with an 
8GB USB drive and SuSE 10.1. I had recently turn on lm_sensors and so I 
turned it back off and I have not experienced any more lock-ups. I did not do 
any further research on the issue. I just decide I needed my USB drive more 
than sensors.

HTH,
Stan Green

On Thursday 20 March 2008 13:32, Garry Stahl wrote:
> Okay.  the problem is solved, but I am wondering what caused it.
>
> I have a four gig flash drive.  It was slightly corrupted in that it has
> several files that would not delete as they "didn't exist" but were
> still there.  I reformatted the drive in Suse 9.3 with fat 32.
>
> Since then every time I plugged that drive in the USB port it locked the
> computer solid.  Reset button required.  Other flash drives did not do
> this.   I could boot the computer with the drive in place and it would
> work.  I could remove it no problem
>
> I put the drive into the XP box, no problem.  I reformatted it with the
> XP tools and the problem vanished.
>
> Does anyone have an idea WHY?


From rrclark at rrclark.net  Sat Mar 22 07:29:15 2008
From: rrclark at rrclark.net (Rich Clark <rrclark@rrclark.net>)
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 07:29:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Sendmail configuration
In-Reply-To: <a60aae67997b8cf34315570040913e9b@localhost.localdomain>
References: <a60aae67997b8cf34315570040913e9b@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.1.00.0803220726510.3803@rich.private.rrclark.net>

On Thu, 20 Mar 2008, Deepan wrote:

> Hi All,
> I am using sendmail via php mail function to send
> emails. However few servers reject my mails with
> the error 'Sender address rejected: Domain not
> found', since mails from my server are sent as
> email at localhost.localdomain. How do I change this
> to a valid domain name ? We only own a public IP.
> we dont really have a domain name, is it possible
> to use IP ?

Personally, my postfix server rejects anything that can't say helo with a 
resolvable FQDN.

This link may be helpful:

http://www.sendmail.org/m4/site_config.html


From mdlug3 at arb.net  Sat Mar 22 11:53:20 2008
From: mdlug3 at arb.net (Dave Arbogast)
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 11:53:20 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Sendmail configuration
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.1.00.0803220726510.3803@rich.private.rrclark.net>
References: <a60aae67997b8cf34315570040913e9b@localhost.localdomain>
	<alpine.LRH.1.00.0803220726510.3803@rich.private.rrclark.net>
Message-ID: <47E52B70.8050401@arb.net>



Rich Clark <rrclark at rrclark.net> wrote:

>On Thu, 20 Mar 2008, Deepan wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Hi All,
>>I am using sendmail via php mail function to send
>>emails. However few servers reject my mails with
>>the error 'Sender address rejected: Domain not
>>found', since mails from my server are sent as
>>email at localhost.localdomain. How do I change this
>>to a valid domain name ? We only own a public IP.
>>we dont really have a domain name, is it possible
>>to use IP ?
>>    
>>
>
>Personally, my postfix server rejects anything that can't say helo with a 
>resolvable FQDN.
>
>This link may be helpful:
>
>http://www.sendmail.org/m4/site_config.html
>
I used to host commercial accounts with Sendmail... until 1999 or so. 
When I migrated to Postfix it was painless and has been ever since. 
Check out the stats for both - Postfix can process the same volume as 
Sendmail with half the resources. Postfix is much simpler to configure, 
etc...

But to answer your question specifically, your problem is most likely 
not a sendmail problem but the fact that your email server is on an IP 
address that does not have a corresponding reverse DNS entry....

If your SMTP server is on www.codeshepherd.com - it translated forward 
to 83.145.216.65 and this has a reverse DNS of whitedwarf.kaski-net.net 
- they do not match so many mail servers including my own will not 
accept this as it appears you are a SPAMMER...

-dave


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 24 00:19:59 2008
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 00:19:59 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] The ULTIMATE Unix cheat-sheet
Message-ID: <b67fb0380803232119i64d9b545te7a67dc19fc35e95@mail.gmail.com>

Found on <http://www.fsdaily.com> -- this is a follow-up to an earlier
cheat-sheet post I made.  This one sorta trumps the other one, though
all are valuable...

***  Unix Toolbox  **"
"This document is a collection of Unix/Linux/BSD commands and tasks
which are useful for IT work or for advanced users. This is a
practical guide with concise explanations, however the reader is
supposed to know what s/he is doing."
<http://cb.vu/unixtoolbox.xhtml>

~~ Mikey


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 25 12:21:01 2008
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:21:01 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Phun - 2D physics sandbox
Message-ID: <b67fb0380803250921h2491c6eco74b265bfbcc764eb@mail.gmail.com>

This is not ENTIRELY OT -- there's a Linux version -- but I think this
is a pretty entertaining piece of software.  Check out the video!

"Phun is meant to be a playground where people can be creative. It can
also be used as an educational tool to learn about physics concepts
such as restitution and friction."
<http://www.phun.at>

~~ Mikey


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Tue Mar 25 12:35:26 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:35:26 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Phun - 2D physics sandbox
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380803250921h2491c6eco74b265bfbcc764eb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380803250921h2491c6eco74b265bfbcc764eb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803250935w34422f7awf4e319d41df01959@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 12:21 PM, Michael Rudas <audiotech50 at gmail.com> wrote:
> This is not ENTIRELY OT -- there's a Linux version -- but I think this
>  is a pretty entertaining piece of software.  Check out the video!

Nifty application but the license needs more detail:
http://phun.cs.umu.se/wiki/Download

"Phun is free for non-commercial use. This means you can download it,
copy it etc, just don't make money using it (don't sell it or use it
for promotional puposes, but it's ok for you to use it at work while
your boss isn't looking)."

In the forums there is some discussion about the license and a
possible package for the OLPC.  There is a similar app planned for the
OLPC:  http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Elements


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Tue Mar 25 13:32:48 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:32:48 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Phun - 2D physics sandbox
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380803250921h2491c6eco74b265bfbcc764eb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380803250921h2491c6eco74b265bfbcc764eb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47E93740.2010703@hotpop.com>

Michael Rudas wrote:
> This is not ENTIRELY OT -- there's a Linux version -- but I think this
> is a pretty entertaining piece of software.  Check out the video!
> 
> "Phun is meant to be a playground where people can be creative. It can
> also be used as an educational tool to learn about physics concepts
> such as restitution and friction."
> <http://www.phun.at>

A few weeks ago, I saw another youtube video that showed a
white-board at MIT that does this.

It's nice to see that the software is available without
buying a $10,000 electronic blackboard.




From driveray at ameritech.net  Thu Mar 27 11:15:51 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 11:15:51 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] President's Mail bag -O'Reilly News for User Group Members
Message-ID: <47EBBA27.6080000@ameritech.net>

O'Reilly News for User Group Members
March 25, 2008

New Releases: Books, Short Cuts, and Rough Cuts

Get 35% off from O'Reilly, No Starch, Paraglyph, PC Publishing,
Pragmatic Bookshelf, Rocky Nook, SitePoint, or YoungJin books you
purchase directly from O'Reilly. Just use code "DSUG" when ordering
online or by phone 800-998-9938.

Free ground shipping on orders of $29.95 or more. See details.

Did you know you can request a free book or PDF to review for your
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For book review writing tips and suggestions, go to:
http://ug.oreilly.com/bookreviews.html

New Releases: Books, Short Cuts, and Rough Cuts:

    * Programming Amazon Web Services
    * Ferret
    * The Digital Photography Companion
    * LINQ Pocket Reference
    * ScreenOS Cookbook
    * iPhone Open Application Development
    * Java Pocket Guide
    * C# 3.0 Pocket Reference, Second Edition
    * Switching to the Mac: The Missing Manual, Leopard Edition
    * Office 2008 for Macintosh: The Missing Manual, Fourth Edition
    * Take Control of Switching to the Mac (TidBITS)
    * ADO.NET 3.5 Cookbook, Second Edition
    * Digital Photography from the Ground Up (Rocky Nook)
    * Head First Servlets and JSP, Second Edition
    * Making Things Happen
    * JUNOS Enterprise Routing
    * Windows Server 2008: The Definitive Guide
    * Photoshop Elements 6 for Mac: The Missing Manual
    * The ThoughtWorks Anthology (Pragmatic Bookshelf)
    * The Principles of Project Management (SitePoint)
    * The Photograph (Hard Cover) (Rocky Nook)
    * Visual Communication in Digital Design (Young Jin)
    * Building a Server with FreeBSD 7 (No Starch)
    * Groovy Recipes (Pragmatic Bookshelf)
    * Audio Editing with Adobe Audition, Second Edition (PC Publishing)
    * Rails for PHP Developers (Pragmatic Bookshelf)
    * Wicked Cool PHP (No Starch)
    * The Ultimate CSS Reference (Hard Cover) (SitePoint)
    * The LEGO MINDSTORMS NXT Zoo! (No Starch)
    * Desktop GIS (Pragmatic Bookshelf)
    * CRAFT: Volume 06
    * SEO for Book Publishers: Beyond Book Search
    * XML for Publishers
    * Making Mobile Work
    * Digitizing Your Backlist
    * Essential Silverlight 2 Up-to-Date
    * Take Control of Permissions in Leopard (TidBITS)
    * Learning Flex 3 Rough Cut


MAKE Magazine Subscriptions
makezine.comThe annual subscription price for four issues is $34.95.
When you subscribe with this link, you'll get a free issue--one plus
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great offer for UG Members: five volumes for the cost of four.

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Webcast: Five Ways to Make Your Photos Look Better
Mar 27, 2008

Five Ways to Make Your Photos Look Better

In this webcast, Derrick Story, digital photographer, blogger, and
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Thousands of pictures are recorded every day. Many of these shots are
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Derrick shows you five ways to make your pictures look a cut above those
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Attendance is limited, so register now. We'll send you a reminder before
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Mar 27-28, 2008
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Mar 30-Apr 3, 2008
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Sean Duggan Presents an All-Day Workshop: "Selections & Masking in Adobe
Photoshop CS3" 	cover image
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Sean Duggan Presents a Weekend Seminar: "Creative Collage with Adobe
Photoshop CS3"
Apr 12-13, 2008
Outreach College, University of Hawaii at Manoa
Honolulu, HI
Sean Duggan (The Creative Digital Darkroom) focuses on exploring the art
of the photographic composite with Adobe Photoshop CS3. Explorations
range from simple collages, to combining two exposures of the same scene
to control contrast, to the creation of surreal, photo-realistic flights
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Objects to preserve flexibility of transformed elements; creating a
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Allison Randal at LugRadio Live USA 2008
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The Metreon Theater
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MySQL Conference & Expo
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MySQL Conference & Expo 2008

Sean Duggan Presents a Hands-on Workshop: "Camera Raw 4 & Adobe Bridge
Workflow"
Apr 14, 2008
Outreach College, University of Hawaii at Manoa
Honolulu, HI
Sean Duggan's (The Creative Digital Darkroom) hands-on workshop delves
into the raw processing combo of Adobe Bridge CS3 and Adobe Camera Raw
4.1 in Photoshop CS3. Every feature in the eight tabbed panels of the
Camera Raw dialog is explored and fully explained to help you get the
most from your raw files. Also covers speeding up the raw workflow using
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Raw and High Dynamic Range (HDR) imaging.

Eric Meyer at MinneWebCon 2008
Apr 14, 2008
McNamara Alumni Center, Twin Cities Campus, University of Minnesota
Minneapolis, MN

Eric Meyer
Author Eric Meyer (CSS: The Definitive Guide, 3rd Ed. & CSS Pocket
Reference, 3rd Ed.) will be speaking at MinneWebCon 2008, located at the
University of Minnesota in the Twin Cities. This conference will deliver
a practical blend of technical and creative information from industry
practitioners and educators.

Derrick Story at NCMUG
Apr 15, 2008
Rohnert Park, CA
Author Derrick Story (The Digital Photography Companion, iPhoto 8: The
Missing Manual, and Digital Photography Hacks) presents "Digital
Photography Tips, Tricks, and Stunts." North Coast Mac Users Group.

FOWD - Future of Web Design
Apr 17-18, 2008
Kensington Town Hall
London, UK
Join the industry's leading and most inspirational designers for some
class A inspiration and practical advice. Putting the 'design' back into
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Derrick Story at Northbay Adobe User Group
Apr 28, 2008
Rm 1999 in Bech Hall
Santa Rosa Junior College, CA
Author Derrick Story (The Digital Photography Companion, iPhoto 8: The
Missing Manual, and Digital Photography Hacks) presents Adobe Camera Raw.

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News from O'Reilly & Beyond

UG News

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TechEd 2008: Get Involved with Birds-of-a-Feather
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LinuxWorld Now Accepting Applications Birds-of-a-Feather Topics and .org
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Virtual Worlds: A Business Guide
by Ben Lorica, Roger Magoulas, and the O'Reilly Radar Team

What's the real business opportunity in Second Life and other virtual
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The Facebook Application Ecosytem: Why Some Thrive--and Most Don't
by Shelly D. Farnham, Ph.D

What do the killer apps on the Facebook platform have in common? What
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Using Zend Studio for PHP Programming
Most programmers are familiar with Eclipse, and PHP programmers are
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Aperture 2 Features 101-103 with Joe Schorr
Apple's web page says, "Aperture 2 delivers over 100 dramatic, new
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Reverse Callback Templating
Many programmers know of the two main systems of templating. One embeds
actual source code into the template. The other provides a mini language
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Audio Insights from the 2008 Game Developers Conference
To hear the future of audio, listen to video games. Interactive Audio
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Blogs
Windows IT Evangelist Matt Hester interviews Laurel Ackerman about
O'Reilly's new Up-to-Date Series at SXSW
MAKE Magazine highlighted on NPR: Digital DIY
Head First or Head Rush?
Julie Lerman blogs about writing her first book for O'Reilly
Quality Begs for Object-Orientation
The Dangers of The Death March Mentality
Find Some Serenity on Your Mac
Anton Security Tip of the Week #14: More access_log Fun: What Are You
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Windows Mobile Weekly Roundup
Pocket These Tips from Derrick Story
Jolting the Industry Again

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Spreading the knowledge of innovators.O'Reilly.com
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From driveray at ameritech.net  Thu Mar 27 10:25:32 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 10:25:32 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] President's Mail bag -O'Reilly News for User Group Members
Message-ID: <47EBAE5C.5090905@ameritech.net>

O'Reilly News for User Group Members
March 25, 2008

New Releases: Books, Short Cuts, and Rough Cuts

Get 35% off from O'Reilly, No Starch, Paraglyph, PC Publishing,
Pragmatic Bookshelf, Rocky Nook, SitePoint, or YoungJin books you
purchase directly from O'Reilly. Just use code "DSUG" when ordering
online or by phone 800-998-9938.

Free ground shipping on orders of $29.95 or more. See details.

Did you know you can request a free book or PDF to review for your
group? Ask your group leader for more information.
For book review writing tips and suggestions, go to:
http://ug.oreilly.com/bookreviews.html

New Releases: Books, Short Cuts, and Rough Cuts:

    * Programming Amazon Web Services
    * Ferret
    * The Digital Photography Companion
    * LINQ Pocket Reference
    * ScreenOS Cookbook
    * iPhone Open Application Development
    * Java Pocket Guide
    * C# 3.0 Pocket Reference, Second Edition
    * Switching to the Mac: The Missing Manual, Leopard Edition
    * Office 2008 for Macintosh: The Missing Manual, Fourth Edition
    * Take Control of Switching to the Mac (TidBITS)
    * ADO.NET 3.5 Cookbook, Second Edition
    * Digital Photography from the Ground Up (Rocky Nook)
    * Head First Servlets and JSP, Second Edition
    * Making Things Happen
    * JUNOS Enterprise Routing
    * Windows Server 2008: The Definitive Guide
    * Photoshop Elements 6 for Mac: The Missing Manual
    * The ThoughtWorks Anthology (Pragmatic Bookshelf)
    * The Principles of Project Management (SitePoint)
    * The Photograph (Hard Cover) (Rocky Nook)
    * Visual Communication in Digital Design (Young Jin)
    * Building a Server with FreeBSD 7 (No Starch)
    * Groovy Recipes (Pragmatic Bookshelf)
    * Audio Editing with Adobe Audition, Second Edition (PC Publishing)
    * Rails for PHP Developers (Pragmatic Bookshelf)
    * Wicked Cool PHP (No Starch)
    * The Ultimate CSS Reference (Hard Cover) (SitePoint)
    * The LEGO MINDSTORMS NXT Zoo! (No Starch)
    * Desktop GIS (Pragmatic Bookshelf)
    * CRAFT: Volume 06
    * SEO for Book Publishers: Beyond Book Search
    * XML for Publishers
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From driveray at ameritech.net  Thu Mar 27 13:31:12 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 13:31:12 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] List sure is quiet
Message-ID: <47EBD9E0.9040106@ameritech.net>

Is this thing on?


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 27 13:53:17 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 10:53:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] List sure is quiet
In-Reply-To: <47EBD9E0.9040106@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <763843.86909.qm@web37912.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Spring Break.

I know I have not seen the list for about 5 days.

Raymond McLaughlin <driveray at ameritech.net> wrote: Is this thing on?
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


       
---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 27 13:56:45 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 10:56:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Q9300 & Lower Cost CPU's & More Cache
Message-ID: <919816.70918.qm@web37902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

On Newegg.com there is a Q9300 for 289.

And other CPU's are dropping.  This is very cool.

I'm looking at an intra-net server and the cost just got less.

David C. Lane 


       
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing.   Make Yahoo your homepage.

From tesral at comcast.net  Thu Mar 27 14:51:01 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 14:51:01 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] List sure is quiet
In-Reply-To: <47EBD9E0.9040106@ameritech.net>
References: <47EBD9E0.9040106@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <47EBEC95.8080700@comcast.net>

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Is this thing on?
>
>   
No, I have been off all week.  The only computer related thing I did was
plug a new CD burner into Gate, the old one was failing.  Yet one more
original part gone.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Mar 27 18:10:50 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:10:50 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Q9300 & Lower Cost CPU's & More Cach
In-Reply-To: <919816.70918.qm@web37902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <919816.70918.qm@web37902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803271510o31fac778mf027b8fdfb06da44@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 1:56 PM, David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Newegg.com there is a Q9300 for 289.
>
>  And other CPU's are dropping.  This is very cool.
>
>  I'm looking at an intra-net server and the cost just got less.
>
>  David C. Lane

Microcenter deal:

Processor & Memory Bundle
OEM Intel(R) Core? 2 Quad processor Q9300 - 552109

? 2.5GHz, 6MB L2 Cache
? 1333MHz Front Side Bus
? Built 45 nanometer technology
? 3 year warranty

$299.99
LIMIT ONE PER CUSTOMER

OCZ 2GB DDR2-800 Gold Kit (PC-6400) 240 Pins
(2 modules) - 549121

? Unbuffered
? Non-ECC
? Heat Spreader Heatsink

FREE with Q9300 Purchase


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Thu Mar 27 20:29:45 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:29:45 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] List sure is quiet
In-Reply-To: <47EBD9E0.9040106@ameritech.net>
References: <47EBD9E0.9040106@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <47EC3BF9.8060504@hotpop.com>

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Is this thing on?

Not sure...

Awfully dark, too.




From mdlug at sbcglobal.net  Thu Mar 27 20:49:19 2008
From: mdlug at sbcglobal.net (Dean Durant)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:49:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] nvidia fx 3700 800x600 only?
Message-ID: <921067.5792.qm@web81806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello, does anyone have any experience with this card, nvidia quadro fx 3700?
 
 nividia apparently has a universal driver for all or many of their video cards for linux.      This is Redhat EL 4 Update 6, an HP workstation.   It came preconfigured with 64 bit XP on it, and I was able to test the graphics card.   It did like 1920x1600 or something like that.   512 MB ram. 
 
 HP even has a driver for it.   I downloaded the driver, and finally got it to work (after too much struggle).     The driver seems to install OK.    But I only get 800x600, no higher.   Is there something else I have to do?     Probably modify, what is it, the X11.conf, or Xserv.conf?   Is there a howto for that?
 
 Does anyone have any experience with this card?   How about nvidia in general?     Thanks, Dean 
 

From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Mar 27 21:32:56 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 21:32:56 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] nvidia fx 3700 800x600 only?
In-Reply-To: <921067.5792.qm@web81806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <921067.5792.qm@web81806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803271832p5ba50e06rec593592bc615c7@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 8:49 PM, Dean Durant <mdlug at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>   Does anyone have any experience with this card?   How about nvidia in general?     Thanks, Dean

I've never used a Quadro but I suspect it's not much different from
other Nvidia card installations and under Fedora it is probably
similar to the Enterprise version.  Check out these threads:

http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=183139
http://fedorasolved.org/video-solutions/nvidia-yum-livna


From rrclark at rrclark.net  Fri Mar 28 08:30:01 2008
From: rrclark at rrclark.net (Rich Clark <rrclark@rrclark.net>)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 08:30:01 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] nvidia fx 3700 800x600 only?
In-Reply-To: <921067.5792.qm@web81806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <921067.5792.qm@web81806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.1.00.0803280829270.18377@rich.private.rrclark.net>

On Thu, 27 Mar 2008, Dean Durant wrote:

> Hello, does anyone have any experience with this card, nvidia quadro fx 
> 3700?
>
> nividia apparently has a universal driver for all or many of their video 
> cards for linux.  This is Redhat EL 4 Update 6, an HP workstation.  It 
> came preconfigured with 64 bit XP on it, and I was able to test the 
> graphics card.  It did like 1920x1600 or something like that.  512 MB 
> ram.
>
> HP even has a driver for it.  I downloaded the driver, and finally got 
> it to work (after too much struggle).  The driver seems to install OK. 
> But I only get 800x600, no higher.  Is there something else I have to 
> do?  Probably modify, what is it, the X11.conf, or Xserv.conf?  Is there 
> a howto for that?
>
> Does anyone have any experience with this card?  How about nvidia in 
> general?

Sounds like you need to define some mode lines for the monitor or better 
identify the monitor in your xorg.conf.


From tony at bemushosting.com  Fri Mar 28 09:28:55 2008
From: tony at bemushosting.com (Tony Bemus)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 09:28:55 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] nvidia fx 3700 800x600 only?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.1.00.0803280829270.18377@rich.private.rrclark.net>
References: <921067.5792.qm@web81806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.LRH.1.00.0803280829270.18377@rich.private.rrclark.net>
Message-ID: <1206710935.5754.4.camel@bemus-tony.bemus>

I don't have experience with that card specifically,  but with my nvidia
card the drivers installed the "nvidia-settings" package and that can
help you configure your display settings.  you may need to be as root or
su,  but in a terminal window enter nvidia-settings and a gui window
will open,  and it will edit your xorg.conf file for your.  if you have
some settings in the file you may want to backup the file first.

cp /etc/X11/xorg.conf xorgconf.bak

Tony Bemus



On Fri, 2008-03-28 at 08:30 -0400, Rich Clark wrote:

> On Thu, 27 Mar 2008, Dean Durant wrote:
> 
> > Hello, does anyone have any experience with this card, nvidia quadro fx 
> > 3700?
> >
> > nividia apparently has a universal driver for all or many of their video 
> > cards for linux.  This is Redhat EL 4 Update 6, an HP workstation.  It 
> > came preconfigured with 64 bit XP on it, and I was able to test the 
> > graphics card.  It did like 1920x1600 or something like that.  512 MB 
> > ram.
> >
> > HP even has a driver for it.  I downloaded the driver, and finally got 
> > it to work (after too much struggle).  The driver seems to install OK. 
> > But I only get 800x600, no higher.  Is there something else I have to 
> > do?  Probably modify, what is it, the X11.conf, or Xserv.conf?  Is there 
> > a howto for that?
> >
> > Does anyone have any experience with this card?  How about nvidia in 
> > general?
> 
> Sounds like you need to define some mode lines for the monitor or better 
> identify the monitor in your xorg.conf.
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 28 09:39:51 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 06:39:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] IPCOP: Still having problems
Message-ID: <121063.65770.qm@web37912.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

The early part of implementing IPCOP when well.  But I'm having problems with NIC cards.


1. The RED-GREEN works fine I was able to serf in internet , after the station DHCP'd the proper address. 
2. How ever the instant I add another network interface for a RED-GREEN-ORANGE I cant see the.


Solutions: 
1. Intel 10/100/1000 Duel j45 port card. on Newegg it is 159.99 
    This might work since there is one irq and address for the system to resolve.

2. Update the BIOS, this is an ECS board, I have have problems with it before.  

3. Get a different Motherboard.

4. Change the Address and IRQ in current NIC cards. 
    I like this option because it is practical, but How is that done.  I think this is the problem the NIC cards are conflicting.

Any thoughts would be helpful.

David C. Lane 









      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Fri Mar 28 12:39:04 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 12:39:04 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] IPCOP: Still having problems
In-Reply-To: <121063.65770.qm@web37912.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <121063.65770.qm@web37912.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803280939t66f1c7a1ocebd9d9ef5d6e8bc@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 9:39 AM, David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com> wrote:
> The early part of implementing IPCOP when well.  But I'm having problems with NIC cards.
>
>
>  1. The RED-GREEN works fine I was able to serf in internet , after the station DHCP'd the proper address.
>  2. How ever the instant I add another network interface for a RED-GREEN-ORANGE I cant see the.

Sounds like a routing or firewall issue.

>  Solutions:
>  1. Intel 10/100/1000 Duel j45 port card. on Newegg it is 159.99
>     This might work since there is one irq and address for the system to resolve.
>
>  2. Update the BIOS, this is an ECS board, I have have problems with it before.
>
>  3. Get a different Motherboard.
>
>  4. Change the Address and IRQ in current NIC cards.
>     I like this option because it is practical, but How is that done.  I think this is the problem the NIC cards are conflicting.
>

I have an old K6/2-350MHz with six NICs (5 PCI and 1 ISA) and they're
all different makes.  Obviously some are sharing IRQs even though I
disabled every other preripheral including the AGP video IRQ and the
second IDE interface.  They all work although they aren't seeing much
of a load currently.  I'm using the Extra Interfaces add-on:
http://www.ban-solms.de/t/IPCop-xtiface.html

One difference with my setup is that all the cards were installed when
I installed IPCop.  I then figured out which card was assigned to
which interface and marked it accordingly.  Because of  the age of the
BIOS I am also forcing ACPI on.

I would try updating the BIOS first because it doesn't cost anything.


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Fri Mar 28 22:25:46 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 22:25:46 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: [opensuse-offtopic] Adobe Unleashes Photoshop
	Free-for-All]
Message-ID: <47EDA8AA.9020802@hotpop.com>



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [opensuse-offtopic] Adobe Unleashes Photoshop Free-for-All
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 21:20:09 -0400
From: Fred A. Miller <fmiller at lightlink.com>
Reply-To: fmiller at lightlink.com
To: opensuse-offtopic <opensuse-offtopic at opensuse.org>

Adobe Unleashes Photoshop Free-for-All
------------------------------------------------------------

If a picture is worth a thousand words, what does it cost to
edit the picture with Photoshop? As of right now, the only cost
is Internet access with a modern Web browser. Adobe Systems has
launched an online photo editing tool that's free to anyone who
wants to edit, store, sort and show off their digital photos --
up to 2 GB worth.

See the Full Story:
http://www.technewsworld.com/story/62324.html

-- 
"Security" in Windows comes from patching a sieve.




From danno at umich.edu  Sat Mar 29 09:11:42 2008
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 09:11:42 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: [opensuse-offtopic] Adobe Unleashes Photoshop
	Free-for-All]
In-Reply-To: <47EDA8AA.9020802@hotpop.com>
References: <47EDA8AA.9020802@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <20080329131142.GA51383@maniac.deathstar.org>

I played with this the other night.

It's a big flash applet.  It's remarkable how much it can do.

flash is certainly not trouble-free but it seems like it is delivering
on the run-everywhere promise that java made 10 years ago.

On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 10:25:46PM -0400, Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> 
> 
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [opensuse-offtopic] Adobe Unleashes Photoshop Free-for-All
> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 21:20:09 -0400
> From: Fred A. Miller <fmiller at lightlink.com>
> Reply-To: fmiller at lightlink.com
> To: opensuse-offtopic <opensuse-offtopic at opensuse.org>
> 
> Adobe Unleashes Photoshop Free-for-All
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> If a picture is worth a thousand words, what does it cost to
> edit the picture with Photoshop? As of right now, the only cost
> is Internet access with a modern Web browser. Adobe Systems has
> launched an online photo editing tool that's free to anyone who
> wants to edit, store, sort and show off their digital photos --
> up to 2 GB worth.
> 
> See the Full Story:
> http://www.technewsworld.com/story/62324.html
> 
> -- 
> "Security" in Windows comes from patching a sieve.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 29 12:21:52 2008
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 12:21:52 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Knoppix 5.3.1 is out!
Message-ID: <b67fb0380803290921o144946fdh79bf99b0c3c639cd@mail.gmail.com>

DVD-only this time, apparently...

<http://distrowatch.com/?newsid=04817>

~~ Mikey


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sat Mar 29 12:59:41 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 12:59:41 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Knoppix 5.3.1 is out!
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380803290921o144946fdh79bf99b0c3c639cd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380803290921o144946fdh79bf99b0c3c639cd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803290959m24d3b6a7ud35cec7461b1c040@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 12:21 PM, Michael Rudas <audiotech50 at gmail.com> wrote:
> DVD-only this time, apparently...
>
>  <http://distrowatch.com/?newsid=04817>

It will be out later.  I prefer the CD over the DVD for the systems I
work with.  Early comments and a review:
http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28596&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20

I wonder if they will come out with a BD version next time with the
entire Debian repos.


From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Sat Mar 29 21:23:35 2008
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Robert Meier)
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 21:23:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] daily(weekly) mail
Message-ID: <20080330012335.93197127CF9@starfox.local>

Editors,

I'm looking to send mail periodically (weekly?) to a small (<20) group.
I'm looking to learn if anyone knows any existing tools to help.
The required features include:
    o queueing of unapproved submissions by mail
    o easy ability to view and approve/reject submissions
    o moderator notification (by mail) of submissions
    o ability of moderator to schedule mail for future transmission (typ. +1wk)
    o unattended transmission of approved mail at scheduled time (+/- 1hr)
    o warning to moderator if there is no mail scheduled (e.g. for next week)

For the near term, a single mail group (managed elsewhere) will be the
sole recipient.
Later the ability of receivers to add/remove themselves mail list style
would be useful.

My understanding is that majordomo could handle part of the requirements,
but not scheduling of individual mail,
nor warning of schedule gaps.

Before writing my own cronjobs,
I was hoping there might be existing tools for this task.

TIA,
-- 
Bob

  "An engineer reports to the gates of hell and is let in.
   Pretty soon the engineer gets dissatisfied with the level of comfort
   in hell, and starts designing and building improvements.
   After a while they've got air conditioning and flush toilets and
   escalators, and the engineer is a pretty popular guy.
   One day God calls Satan on the telephone and says with a sneer,
   'So, how's it going down there in hell?'
   Satan replies, 'Hey, things are going great.
   We've  got air conditioning and flush toilets and escalators, and
   there's no telling what this engineer is going to come up with next.'  
   God replies, 'What??? You've got an engineer?
   That's a mistake -- he should never have gone down there;
   send him up here.'
   Satan says, 'No way. I like having an engineer on the staff,
   and I'm keeping him.'
   God says, 'Send him back up here or I'll sue.'
   Satan laughs uproariously and answers, 'Yeah, right.
   And  just where are YOU going to get a lawyer?'"
	-- unknown


From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Sat Mar 29 21:34:22 2008
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Robert Meier)
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 21:34:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Recent pwn-2-own Security Contest
Message-ID: <20080330013422.A18D4127CFA@starfox.local>


http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com/2008/03/ubuntu-beats-osx-and-vista-in-pwn-2-own.html

Both Windows and OSX were exploited during the competition, however the
Ubuntu machine remained secure ;)

Reporting,
-- 
Bob

  "Nothing has such power to broaden the mind,
   as the ability to investigate systematically and truly,
   all that comes under thy observation in life."
     -- Marcus Aurelius



From otakurider at gmail.com  Sun Mar 30 10:47:45 2008
From: otakurider at gmail.com (-)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 10:47:45 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Annoying error
Message-ID: <cd5131a50803300747i6860afb6m69e0b3bbdeabb12e@mail.gmail.com>

I have this error some times when closing out of some GTK+ use apps -
pidgin, Evolution calendar, also in xsession-errors file some times.   It
dos not cause a issues that I can see with the apps or system stability.
searching results kind of vague talks about dbus bug in network manager app
but I have not install the app.


libnm_glib_nm_state_cb: dbus returned an error.
  (org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown) The name
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager was not provided by any .service files



I am running Fedora 8, 1G ram using gnome as desktop with Desktop effects
enabled,  Also using Nvidi card duel ,monitor setup.


Thanks

Pat


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Sun Mar 30 20:04:10 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 20:04:10 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Is ATT Playing Traffic Cop??
Message-ID: <1206921850.24841.78.camel@peter-notebook.site>

Hello To Those Left Behind,
	I tried today to send a short .avi file to my brother in law depicting
me trying out my new fountain pens. I have ATT DSL service and I could
not send it for anything. Either wireless, wired, nothing. The second I
removed the .avi file away it went. Does anyone else have this problem
as well? I send pictures all the time, which are usually relatively
small. I wonder if it has to do with the size? Yes, this is probably the
first time I ever sent a movie via email.

Best Regards,
	
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From newmaniese at gmail.com  Sun Mar 30 20:41:33 2008
From: newmaniese at gmail.com (Michael)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 20:41:33 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Is ATT Playing Traffic Cop??
In-Reply-To: <1206921850.24841.78.camel@peter-notebook.site>
References: <1206921850.24841.78.camel@peter-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <225acb190803301741p12e711ddvc0703ef41da004d1@mail.gmail.com>

What was the size of the file? What mail carrier were you trying to
send it from (gmail, att, yahoo, etc.)? What program were you sending
it from(Webmail, Thunderbird, etc.)?

My bet is that the file was just to big and your mail program didn't
know what to do with the file. Video over e-mail is a bit of a task
for e-mail. Gmail has the most transfer for email and that is around
17-20 mb. With hotmail before I left I think I had less than 2 mb
maxium. At work I think I have a even smaller limit.

I wouldn't put it past ATT to throttle and block some internet traffic
(heck they gave the government my phone records), but it would be way
too scandalous for them to block all movie files.

Let's get the bottom of this one quickly,
Michael


On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 8:04 PM, Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:
> Hello To Those Left Behind,
>         I tried today to send a short .avi file to my brother in law depicting
>  me trying out my new fountain pens. I have ATT DSL service and I could
>  not send it for anything. Either wireless, wired, nothing. The second I
>  removed the .avi file away it went. Does anyone else have this problem
>  as well? I send pictures all the time, which are usually relatively
>  small. I wonder if it has to do with the size? Yes, this is probably the
>  first time I ever sent a movie via email.
>
>  Best Regards,
>
>  --
>  Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
>  http://petertheplumber.net
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  mdlug mailing list
>  mdlug at mdlug.org
>  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Sun Mar 30 22:37:24 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 22:37:24 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Is ATT Playing Traffic Cop??
In-Reply-To: <225acb190803301741p12e711ddvc0703ef41da004d1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1206921850.24841.78.camel@peter-notebook.site>
	<225acb190803301741p12e711ddvc0703ef41da004d1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1206931044.24841.89.camel@peter-notebook.site>


On Sun, 2008-03-30 at 20:41 -0400, Michael wrote:
> What was the size of the file? What mail carrier were you trying to
> send it from (gmail, att, yahoo, etc.)? What program were you sending
> it from(Webmail, Thunderbird, etc.)?
> 
> My bet is that the file was just to big and your mail program didn't
> know what to do with the file. Video over e-mail is a bit of a task
> for e-mail. Gmail has the most transfer for email and that is around
> 17-20 mb. With hotmail before I left I think I had less than 2 mb
> maxium. At work I think I have a even smaller limit.
> 
> I wouldn't put it past ATT to throttle and block some internet traffic
> (heck they gave the government my phone records), but it would be way
> too scandalous for them to block all movie files.
> 
> Let's get the bottom of this one quickly,
> Michael
> 
> 
> On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 8:04 PM, Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:
> > Hello To Those Left Behind,
> >         I tried today to send a short .avi file to my brother in law depicting
> >  me trying out my new fountain pens. I have ATT DSL service and I could
> >  not send it for anything. Either wireless, wired, nothing. The second I
> >  removed the .avi file away it went. Does anyone else have this problem
> >  as well? I send pictures all the time, which are usually relatively
> >  small. I wonder if it has to do with the size? Yes, this is probably the
> >  first time I ever sent a movie via email.
> >
> >  

	The client is Evolution on openSUSE 10.3, the provider is ATT. The file
itself was roughly 80mb.

Best Regards,
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 31 01:27:41 2008
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 01:27:41 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Is ATT Playing Traffic Cop??
In-Reply-To: <1206921850.24841.78.camel@peter-notebook.site>
References: <1206921850.24841.78.camel@peter-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380803302227u49445edx4f3f180fb83e3146@mail.gmail.com>

--- Peter Bart wrote:

>   I tried today to send a short .avi file to my brother in law depicting
>  me trying out my new fountain pens. I have ATT DSL service and I could
>  not send it for anything. Either wireless, wired, nothing.

80MB is too big -- there's a 20 MB limit on file attachments.  Find an
upload service that lets you host a file, then link to it, or split it
into chunks.

You might also try Pando, which is a cross between attachments and
BitTorrent.  I have not tried it, but there IS a Linux client
available.

~~ Mikey


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Mon Mar 31 02:40:44 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 02:40:44 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Is ATT Playing Traffic Cop??
In-Reply-To: <1206931044.24841.89.camel@peter-notebook.site>
References: <1206921850.24841.78.camel@peter-notebook.site>	<225acb190803301741p12e711ddvc0703ef41da004d1@mail.gmail.com>
	<1206931044.24841.89.camel@peter-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <47F0876C.10207@hotpop.com>

Peter Bart wrote:
> On Sun, 2008-03-30 at 20:41 -0400, Michael wrote:
>> What was the size of the file? What mail carrier were you trying to
>> send it from (gmail, att, yahoo, etc.)? What program were you sending
>> it from(Webmail, Thunderbird, etc.)?
>>
>> My bet is that the file was just to big and your mail program didn't
>> know what to do with the file. Video over e-mail is a bit of a task
>> for e-mail. Gmail has the most transfer for email and that is around
>> 17-20 mb. With hotmail before I left I think I had less than 2 mb
>> maxium. At work I think I have a even smaller limit.
>>
>> I wouldn't put it past ATT to throttle and block some internet traffic
>> (heck they gave the government my phone records), but it would be way
>> too scandalous for them to block all movie files.
>>
>> Let's get the bottom of this one quickly,
>> Michael
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 8:04 PM, Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:
>>> Hello To Those Left Behind,
>>>         I tried today to send a short .avi file to my brother in law depicting
>>>  me trying out my new fountain pens. I have ATT DSL service and I could
>>>  not send it for anything. Either wireless, wired, nothing. The second I
>>>  removed the .avi file away it went. Does anyone else have this problem
>>>  as well? I send pictures all the time, which are usually relatively
>>>  small. I wonder if it has to do with the size? Yes, this is probably the
>>>  first time I ever sent a movie via email.
>>>
>>>  
> 
> 	The client is Evolution on openSUSE 10.3, the provider is ATT.
 > The file itself was roughly 80mb.
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That's your problem right there.



> 
> Best Regards,





From wolfger at gmail.com  Mon Mar 31 08:17:48 2008
From: wolfger at gmail.com (Wolfger)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 08:17:48 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] daily(weekly) mail
In-Reply-To: <20080330012335.93197127CF9@starfox.local>
References: <20080330012335.93197127CF9@starfox.local>
Message-ID: <3b00b3330803310517x63a252edrc3afc81dd85bf64f@mail.gmail.com>

I think you'll be writing some cron jobs... Most group blogging
software will let you schedule posts, but I've never heard of mailing
list software scheduling posts like that. It's...
un-mailing-list-like.

On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 9:23 PM, Robert Meier
<list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Editors,
>
>  I'm looking to send mail periodically (weekly?) to a small (<20) group.
>  I'm looking to learn if anyone knows any existing tools to help.
>  The required features include:
>     o queueing of unapproved submissions by mail
>     o easy ability to view and approve/reject submissions
>     o moderator notification (by mail) of submissions
>     o ability of moderator to schedule mail for future transmission (typ. +1wk)
>     o unattended transmission of approved mail at scheduled time (+/- 1hr)
>     o warning to moderator if there is no mail scheduled (e.g. for next week)
>
>  For the near term, a single mail group (managed elsewhere) will be the
>  sole recipient.
>  Later the ability of receivers to add/remove themselves mail list style
>  would be useful.
>
>  My understanding is that majordomo could handle part of the requirements,
>  but not scheduling of individual mail,
>  nor warning of schedule gaps.
>
>  Before writing my own cronjobs,
>  I was hoping there might be existing tools for this task.
>
>  TIA,
>  --
>  Bob
>
>   "An engineer reports to the gates of hell and is let in.
>    Pretty soon the engineer gets dissatisfied with the level of comfort
>    in hell, and starts designing and building improvements.
>    After a while they've got air conditioning and flush toilets and
>    escalators, and the engineer is a pretty popular guy.
>    One day God calls Satan on the telephone and says with a sneer,
>    'So, how's it going down there in hell?'
>    Satan replies, 'Hey, things are going great.
>    We've  got air conditioning and flush toilets and escalators, and
>    there's no telling what this engineer is going to come up with next.'
>    God replies, 'What??? You've got an engineer?
>    That's a mistake -- he should never have gone down there;
>    send him up here.'
>    Satan says, 'No way. I like having an engineer on the staff,
>    and I'm keeping him.'
>    God says, 'Send him back up here or I'll sue.'
>    Satan laughs uproariously and answers, 'Yeah, right.
>    And  just where are YOU going to get a lawyer?'"
>         -- unknown
>  _______________________________________________
>  mdlug mailing list
>  mdlug at mdlug.org
>  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>



-- 
Wolfger
http://wolfger.wordpress.com/
AOL IM: wolf4coyot
Yahoo!Messenger: wolfgersilberbaer


From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Mon Mar 31 08:09:54 2008
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 08:09:54 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Annoying error
In-Reply-To: <cd5131a50803300747i6860afb6m69e0b3bbdeabb12e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cd5131a50803300747i6860afb6m69e0b3bbdeabb12e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE055F7B10@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>


From gib at juno.com  Mon Mar 31 09:05:33 2008
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 13:05:33 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] Penguicon
Message-ID: <20080331.090533.7251.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>

 
Penguicon is coming up fast.  Do we have any plans?

_____________________________________________________________
Click for a free comparison on healthcare coverage and save 100's.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iifSj0iMq0dwjqHtCT1hZizNcBUmE5saXpPd2YbsWKsbcCCnK/


From radkins at impelind.com  Mon Mar 31 09:20:57 2008
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 09:20:57 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Is ATT Playing Traffic Cop??
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380803302227u49445edx4f3f180fb83e3146@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080331132027.AFE33C0CF@impelind.com>

> 
> 80MB is too big -- there's a 20 MB limit on file attachments. 
>  Find an upload service that lets you host a file, then link 
> to it, or split it into chunks.
> 

  The 20MB limit is not a hard limit, it is dependent upon the receiving
email server's setup.

  We have some customers that want to send us single files that even when
zipped are just over 20mb. So, I upped the limit on receivable file sizes to
just over 20mb and we receive their email with no problem.

	-Rob



From tesral at comcast.net  Mon Mar 31 10:21:39 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 10:21:39 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Penguicon
In-Reply-To: <20080331.090533.7251.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20080331.090533.7251.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <47F0F373.20406@comcast.net>

gib at juno.com wrote:
>  
> Penguicon is coming up fast.  Do we have any plans?
>
>   

I will be there.


-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Mar 31 11:15:41 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 11:15:41 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Penguicon
In-Reply-To: <20080331.090533.7251.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20080331.090533.7251.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803310815odbd7f70w4eac3582b3984233@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 9:05 AM, gib at juno.com <gib at juno.com> wrote:
>
>  Penguicon is coming up fast.  Do we have any plans?

I will be there with a few friends from Alpena.


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Mon Mar 31 16:34:18 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 16:34:18 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] DEFCON at Big Lots for $6, too.
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654E1@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

A while back I posted about finding Introversion Software's game Darwinia at
Big Lots for $6. While on vacation last week, I found DEFCON at a Kentucky
Big Lots, also for $6. I snapped it up immediately. Introversion makes good,
unusual, thoughtful games and I'd been meaning to get DEFCON at some point
anyway, having played the demo.

 It's based on the simulation contained within the movie "WarGames". The look
is very similar, and the idea is the same - conduct a global thermonuclear
war, and lose the least.

 All of their games can be played on Linux, with first-class ports. You can
download the DEFCON demo here:

 http://www.everybody-dies.com/downloads/

 All you need to convert it to a full version is the authorization code
found on the manual of a boxed set. It ran beautifully at full speed and
resolution on my laptop (1024x768, Geforce2Go 16MB).

 At $6, it's a steal. I'm pretty sure it'll be at at least a few Big Lots
in Michigan, too.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                 (313) 227-2317

  Modern deductive method: 1) Devise hypothesis. 2) Apply
 for grant.  3) Perform experiments. 4) Revise hypothesis.
     5) Backdate revised hypothesis. 6) Publish.
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 31 18:09:01 2008
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 18:09:01 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Is ATT Playing Traffic Cop??
In-Reply-To: <20080331132027.AFE33C0CF@impelind.com>
References: <b67fb0380803302227u49445edx4f3f180fb83e3146@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080331132027.AFE33C0CF@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380803311509g2b89168eqbe1f6bec58024af6@mail.gmail.com>

--- Robert Adkins wrote:

>> 80MB is too big -- there's a 20 MB limit on file attachments.
>>  Find an upload service that lets you host a file, then link
>> to it, or split it into chunks.

>  The 20MB limit is not a hard limit, it is dependent upon the receiving
>  email server's setup.

WRONG.  AT&T & Yahoo! paid e-mail accounts have a hard limit of 20MB
per e-mail on outbound attachments -- free accounts have a 10MB limit.
 I've been an Ameritech/SBC/AT&T DSL customer for about 7 years.

~~ Mikey


From mdlug3 at arb.net  Mon Mar 31 19:44:55 2008
From: mdlug3 at arb.net (Dave Arbogast)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 19:44:55 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Is ATT Playing Traffic Cop??
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380803311509g2b89168eqbe1f6bec58024af6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380803302227u49445edx4f3f180fb83e3146@mail.gmail.com>	<20080331132027.AFE33C0CF@impelind.com>
	<b67fb0380803311509g2b89168eqbe1f6bec58024af6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47F17777.7060108@arb.net>

Hi Mikey, you might want to shop around...  I was a Speakeasy DSL 
customer for years... Then last year I took the Bait and Switch for 
Comcast Commercial internet (falsely claimed 10m down and 256k up) . I 
quickly found they were traffic shaping my traffic to Vonage. Their 
boarder routers would add latency of up to 3 seconds to my little 8kps 
packets to vonage and flat out drop a large under of  packets to vonage. 
Customer support was always "the solution is to buy our internet phone 
service." I dumped them and moved 2 blocks, but they kept billing me 
until the bill hit $505 for service I did not have and I filed a 
complaint with the MPSC....

Then I shopped Covad resellers and found DSL had gone to 6m down and 
786k up for less than I was paying for 1.5m down and 384k up.  WOW !!!!  
Speakeasy is a Covad reseller and they never mentioned my service could 
be many times faster for less money.

-dave

Michael Rudas wrote:

>--- Robert Adkins wrote:
>
>  
>
>>>80MB is too big -- there's a 20 MB limit on file attachments.
>>> Find an upload service that lets you host a file, then link
>>>to it, or split it into chunks.
>>>      
>>>
>
>  
>
>> The 20MB limit is not a hard limit, it is dependent upon the receiving
>> email server's setup.
>>    
>>
>
>WRONG.  AT&T & Yahoo! paid e-mail accounts have a hard limit of 20MB
>per e-mail on outbound attachments -- free accounts have a 10MB limit.
> I've been an Ameritech/SBC/AT&T DSL customer for about 7 years.
>
>~~ Mikey
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>  
>


From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Mon Mar 31 23:25:53 2008
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Robert Meier)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 23:25:53 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] (dis)recommendations for blogging software [Was:
	daily(weekly) mail]
In-Reply-To: <3b00b3330803310517x63a252edrc3afc81dd85bf64f@mail.gmail.com>
	(message from Wolfger on Mon, 31 Mar 2008 08:17:48 -0400)
References: <20080330012335.93197127CF9@starfox.local>
	<3b00b3330803310517x63a252edrc3afc81dd85bf64f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080401032553.53DC019E619@starfox.local>

Wolfger,

>> I'm looking to send mail periodically (weekly?) to a small (<20) group.
>> I'm looking to learn if anyone knows any existing tools to help.
>> The required features include:
>>    o queueing of unapproved submissions by mail
>>    o easy ability to view and approve/reject submissions
>>    o moderator notification (by mail) of submissions
>>    o moderator ability to schedule mail for future transmission (typ. +1wk)
>>    o unattended transmission of approved mail at scheduled time (+/- 1hr)
>>    o warning to moderator if there is no mail scheduled (e.g. for next week)
> I think you'll be writing some cron jobs...

So I figured, but thought it worth asking.

What blogging software (and features) do people (dis)recommend?

Inquiring minds want to know,
-- 
Bob

  "The process of scientific discovery is,
   in effect, a continual flight from wonder."
     -- Albert Einstein


From painbank at gmail.com  Sat Mar  1 12:41:51 2008
From: painbank at gmail.com (Rich Elswick)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 12:41:51 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] I'll Take one ... was Re: I found a 20 inch monitor today
Message-ID: <cafacd830803010941g7603004fxe9af719cdf4f95ed@mail.gmail.com>

Well, since so many of you have these massive CRTs and I don't, if you
just want to dump one or two, then I will take a couple.

Rich

On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 1:33 PM, Scott Webster Wood <treii28 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Yes, I knew it was coming the first time I saw that 'energy star' logo.  PC pc's!
>
>  Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>  > So far, it's doing well....although i'm not sure if the power
>  > consumption vs flat screens makes it a good idea to keep it
>  > or to give it up.
>  >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>       ____________________________________________________________________________________
>  Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
>  http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>  _______________________________________________
>  mdlug mailing list
>  mdlug at mdlug.org
>  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>



-- 
Rich Elswick
http://www.moyaentertainment.com

<a
href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/scacast"><img
src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/scacast.gif" style="border:0"
alt="The Pain Bank - SCA and WMA"/></a>


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Mon Mar  3 13:25:35 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 13:25:35 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Transfering /home with scp
Message-ID: <20080303132535.0f58b18f@Nokia-N800-26>

Hi Everyone,
	I'm finally at the point of transferring all my files to my new
notebook. The old one is a T30 Thinkpad running opensuse 10.3 and the
new one is a T61 Thinkpad running opensuse 10.3. Can I simply use scp
to copy the entire /home? Or are there files in /home that would be
specific to the hardware/operating system it's on? 
      If I do, I know I must use the -r flag to copy
directories recursivly, the -p flag to preserve ownership and
permissions. What about directories/files that allready exist and
should be replaced, such as /home/.evolution? I've read that cp and scp
are intentionally similar. The man page for cp lists -f as the flag to
be used to replace an existing file if it can't be written to. I don't
see the -f/force flag on scp's man page.  I'm somewhat at a loss on how
to do that part. Of course I could delete all the files in /home before
copying. But I've added programs on the new machine so that seems a
little much because I don't want to remove files that won't be replaced
and I might need.
    Would tar be a better, quicker option? ie Create the archive
of /home on the old machine,
burn
it to disc, then unpack it on the new machine? I tried to make an
archive of my /home several times but I think I wasn't patient enough
or used the wrong command because it either didn't work or was taking
several hours. On the other hand it appears that when unpacking an
archive it overwrites existing files of the same name in the directory
it's unpacked.
    There is probably another option I don't know about, so please
suggest it!

Best Regards, 

-- 
Peter The Plumber sm on the Road
State Licensed Plumber
State Certified Backflow Device Tester
Factory Trained Boiler Install/Service
<http://petertheplumber.net>
24h Service 313.215.5175

Don't sleep with a drip! Call a licensed and experienced plumber.


From mdlug3 at arb.net  Mon Mar  3 13:34:09 2008
From: mdlug3 at arb.net (Dave Arbogast)
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 13:34:09 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Transfering /home with scp
In-Reply-To: <20080303132535.0f58b18f@Nokia-N800-26>
References: <20080303132535.0f58b18f@Nokia-N800-26>
Message-ID: <47CC44A1.80606@arb.net>



Peter Bart wrote:

>Hi Everyone,
>	I'm finally at the point of transferring all my files to my new
>notebook. The old one is a T30 Thinkpad running opensuse 10.3 and the
>new one is a T61 Thinkpad running opensuse 10.3. Can I simply use scp
>to copy the entire /home? Or are there files in /home that would be
>specific to the hardware/operating system it's on? 
>      If I do, I know I must use the -r flag to copy
>directories recursivly, the -p flag to preserve ownership and
>permissions. What about directories/files that allready exist and
>should be replaced, such as /home/.evolution? I've read that cp and scp
>are intentionally similar. The man page for cp lists -f as the flag to
>be used to replace an existing file if it can't be written to. I don't
>see the -f/force flag on scp's man page.  I'm somewhat at a loss on how
>to do that part. Of course I could delete all the files in /home before
>copying. But I've added programs on the new machine so that seems a
>little much because I don't want to remove files that won't be replaced
>and I might need.
>    Would tar be a better, quicker option? ie Create the archive
>of /home on the old machine,
>burn
>it to disc, then unpack it on the new machine? I tried to make an
>archive of my /home several times but I think I wasn't patient enough
>or used the wrong command because it either didn't work or was taking
>several hours. On the other hand it appears that when unpacking an
>archive it overwrites existing files of the same name in the directory
>it's unpacked.
>    There is probably another option I don't know about, so please
>suggest it!
>
>Best Regards, 
>  
>
On a private network I would use SMB or NFS - this gives you better 
control of your structure, I think. Since neither is secure on a public 
network, be sure to disable when done ;-)

-dave


From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Mon Mar  3 13:37:44 2008
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 13:37:44 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Transfering /home with scp
In-Reply-To: <20080303132535.0f58b18f@Nokia-N800-26>
References: <20080303132535.0f58b18f@Nokia-N800-26>
Message-ID: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE0539956B@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

If I were you, I would do the following on the source machine:

# cd /home
# tar cpf - * | ssh -l root target_host '(cd /home; tar xpf - )'

Scp has some issues with maintaining permissions (or maybe it's
ownerships?).

Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Peter Bart
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 1:26 PM
To: MDLUG main discussion list
Subject: [mdlug] Transfering /home with scp

Hi Everyone,
	I'm finally at the point of transferring all my files to my new
notebook. The old one is a T30 Thinkpad running opensuse 10.3 and the
new one is a T61 Thinkpad running opensuse 10.3. Can I simply use scp
to copy the entire /home? Or are there files in /home that would be
specific to the hardware/operating system it's on? 
      If I do, I know I must use the -r flag to copy
directories recursivly, the -p flag to preserve ownership and
permissions. What about directories/files that allready exist and
should be replaced, such as /home/.evolution? I've read that cp and scp
are intentionally similar. The man page for cp lists -f as the flag to
be used to replace an existing file if it can't be written to. I don't
see the -f/force flag on scp's man page.  I'm somewhat at a loss on how
to do that part. Of course I could delete all the files in /home before
copying. But I've added programs on the new machine so that seems a
little much because I don't want to remove files that won't be replaced
and I might need.
    Would tar be a better, quicker option? ie Create the archive
of /home on the old machine,
burn
it to disc, then unpack it on the new machine? I tried to make an
archive of my /home several times but I think I wasn't patient enough
or used the wrong command because it either didn't work or was taking
several hours. On the other hand it appears that when unpacking an
archive it overwrites existing files of the same name in the directory
it's unpacked.
    There is probably another option I don't know about, so please
suggest it!

Best Regards, 

-- 
Peter The Plumber sm on the Road
State Licensed Plumber
State Certified Backflow Device Tester
Factory Trained Boiler Install/Service
<http://petertheplumber.net>
24h Service 313.215.5175

Don't sleep with a drip! Call a licensed and experienced plumber.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Mon Mar  3 13:34:11 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 13:34:11 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Backup Options
Message-ID: <20080303133411.18d4ff2b@Nokia-N800-26>

Hello again,
    Is tar a decent option to 'backup' ones /home? I've seen bacula,
but it seems a little much right now. I've thought about using some
program to create an image of my hard disk much like VMWare creates a
snapshot. I will probably look at that when I get roundtuit, right now
I need something quick and dirty while the roundtuit spins.

Best Regards,


-- 
Peter The Plumber sm on the Road
State Licensed Plumber
State Certified Backflow Device Tester
Factory Trained Boiler Install/Service
<http://petertheplumber.net>
24h Service 313.215.5175

Don't sleep with a drip! Call a licensed and experienced plumber.


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Mon Mar  3 14:36:17 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 14:36:17 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Backup Options
In-Reply-To: <20080303133411.18d4ff2b@Nokia-N800-26>
References: <20080303133411.18d4ff2b@Nokia-N800-26>
Message-ID: <47CC5331.5030006@hotpop.com>

Peter Bart wrote:
> Hello again,
>     Is tar a decent option to 'backup' ones /home? I've seen bacula,]
> but it seems a little much right now. I've thought about using some
> program to create an image of my hard disk much like VMWare creates a
> snapshot. I will probably look at that when I get roundtuit, right now
> I need something quick and dirty while the roundtuit spins.

Tar is adequate, but not perfect.
remember, tar = Tape ARchive.




From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Mon Mar  3 14:40:39 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 14:40:39 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Transfering /home with scp
In-Reply-To: <20080303132535.0f58b18f@Nokia-N800-26>
References: <20080303132535.0f58b18f@Nokia-N800-26>
Message-ID: <47CC5437.1090005@hotpop.com>

Peter Bart wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
> 	I'm finally at the point of transferring all my files to my new
> notebook. The old one is a T30 Thinkpad running opensuse 10.3 and the
> new one is a T61 Thinkpad running opensuse 10.3. Can I simply use scp
> to copy the entire /home? Or are there files in /home that would be
> specific to the hardware/operating system it's on? 

Why introduce the overhead of encryption between two laptops???

newlaptop # cd /
newlaptop # (rsh old_laptop (cd / && tar cvf - /home)) | tar xvf -

Or if you have a USB hard drive, just create a tar file
on that, then un-tar it onto the new laptop




From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Mar  3 16:35:01 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 16:35:01 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Transfering /home with scp
In-Reply-To: <47CC44A1.80606@arb.net>
References: <20080303132535.0f58b18f@Nokia-N800-26> <47CC44A1.80606@arb.net>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803031335h4c92ff81p7dc93dcfc247f9c3@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 1:34 PM, Dave Arbogast <mdlug3 at arb.net> wrote:
>  On a private network I would use SMB or NFS - this gives you better
>  control of your structure, I think. Since neither is secure on a public
>  network, be sure to disable when done ;-)

SMB enforces Windows file name limits so files with ":" and other
characters won't transfer.  Path length limits also apply.


From lnovak1 at ford.com  Mon Mar  3 17:00:24 2008
From: lnovak1 at ford.com (lnovak1 at ford.com)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 17:00:24 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Lou Novak asked us to send you this post from Engadget
Message-ID: <200803032200.m23M0OQJ014323@acblogs-lm103.websys.aol.com>


   From: [1]Engadget
   URL:
   [2]http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/02/microsoft-speculates-on-ad-suppo
   rted-sync/
   Sent from: [3]Lou Novak (lnovak1 at ford.com)
   Sent to: mdlug at mdlug.org
   Comments: Some speculation on the future of Sync, the system found in
   Ford products. No mention of vehicle control systems however.
     _________________________________________________________________

                 [4]Microsoft speculates on ad-supported Sync

  03-02-2008

   Apparently, Microsoft has plans for [5]Sync that extend beyond the
   standard voice-activation scheme they've got going right now. The
   company wants to deliver a wider range of network connectivity for
   in-car use, and they're debating the possibility of moving away from
   subscription-based services to an ad-funded scenario. What exactly
   does that mean? We'll let Martin Thall, general manager of Microsoft's
   Automotive Business Unit explain: "We know where you are and we know
   where you're headed," he says, seemingly unaware of the Orwellian
   implications. "We could target that advertising directly to your car."
   You getting that? Targeted ads. In your car. While you're driving.
   Apparently, execs don't think you'll mind being bombarded inside your
   vehicle because you're, "used to advertising in the car. We hear ads
   on the radio and see billboards on the road." Of course, this is
   speculation on future technologies, so nothing is set in ston e --
   hopefully someone comes to their senses before our hovercar interiors
   glitter with holographic spam.

References

   Visible links
   1. http://www.engadget.com/
   2. http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/02/microsoft-speculates-on-ad-supported-sync/
   3. mailto:lnovak1 at ford.com
   4. file://localhost/tmp/%PostURL
   5. http://www.engadget.com/tag/Sync/

   Hidden links:
   6. http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/02/microsoft-wants.html


From mdlug3 at arb.net  Mon Mar  3 17:47:36 2008
From: mdlug3 at arb.net (Dave Arbogast)
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 17:47:36 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Transfering /home with scp
In-Reply-To: <47CC5437.1090005@hotpop.com>
References: <20080303132535.0f58b18f@Nokia-N800-26>
	<47CC5437.1090005@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <47CC8008.9040606@arb.net>



Aaron Kulkis wrote:

>Peter Bart wrote:
>  
>
>>Hi Everyone,
>>	I'm finally at the point of transferring all my files to my new
>>notebook. The old one is a T30 Thinkpad running opensuse 10.3 and the
>>new one is a T61 Thinkpad running opensuse 10.3. Can I simply use scp
>>to copy the entire /home? Or are there files in /home that would be
>>specific to the hardware/operating system it's on? 
>>    
>>
>
>Why introduce the overhead of encryption between two laptops???
>
>newlaptop # cd /
>newlaptop # (rsh old_laptop (cd / && tar cvf - /home)) | tar xvf -
>
>Or if you have a USB hard drive, just create a tar file
>on that, then un-tar it onto the new laptop
>
>  
>
There's no encryption with NFS either. If you want to transfer 
_everthing_ without regard to what's on the new one, then Aaron is 
right. If you want to be selective, I'd do NFS.

-dave


From tesral at comcast.net  Mon Mar  3 17:56:07 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 17:56:07 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Lou Novak asked us to send you this post from Engadget
In-Reply-To: <200803032200.m23M0OQJ014323@acblogs-lm103.websys.aol.com>
References: <200803032200.m23M0OQJ014323@acblogs-lm103.websys.aol.com>
Message-ID: <47CC8207.2010206@comcast.net>

lnovak1 at ford.com wrote:
>    You getting that? Targeted ads. In your car. While you're driving.
>    Apparently, execs don't think you'll mind being bombarded inside your
>    vehicle because you're, "used to advertising in the car. We hear ads
>    on the radio and see billboards on the road." Of course, this is
>    speculation on future technologies, so nothing is set in ston e --
>    hopefully someone comes to their senses before our hovercar interiors
>    glitter with holographic spam.
>   

Remind me to put a screwdriver through that thing should I ever buy a
car so inflicted.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Mar  3 18:11:21 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 18:11:21 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Lou Novak asked us to send you this post from Engadget
In-Reply-To: <200803032200.m23M0OQJ014323@acblogs-lm103.websys.aol.com>
References: <200803032200.m23M0OQJ014323@acblogs-lm103.websys.aol.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803031511g39b509c7ne732bd31b57fb10e@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 5:00 PM,  <lnovak1 at ford.com> wrote:
>                  [4]Microsoft speculates on ad-supported Sync

I can see the potential in it.  The ECU could signal Sync that the
engine efficiency is lower than normal.  Sync could then suggest
solutions the driver can select from like "Gummout Anti-Virus for
ECUs".


From ebielaczyc at gmail.com  Mon Mar  3 21:52:50 2008
From: ebielaczyc at gmail.com (Ein Bielaczyc)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 21:52:50 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Transfering /home with scp
In-Reply-To: <20080303132535.0f58b18f@Nokia-N800-26>
References: <20080303132535.0f58b18f@Nokia-N800-26>
Message-ID: <ba6f3ba00803031852n77db3b46j1521b75995c683c0@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 1:25 PM, Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>         I'm finally at the point of transferring all my files to my new
>  notebook. The old one is a T30 Thinkpad running opensuse 10.3 and the
>  new one is a T61 Thinkpad running opensuse 10.3. Can I simply use scp
>  to copy the entire /home? Or are there files in /home that would be
>  specific to the hardware/operating system it's on?
>       If I do, I know I must use the -r flag to copy
>  directories recursivly, the -p flag to preserve ownership and
>  permissions. What about directories/files that allready exist and
>  should be replaced, such as /home/.evolution? I've read that cp and scp
>  are intentionally similar. The man page for cp lists -f as the flag to
>  be used to replace an existing file if it can't be written to. I don't
>  see the -f/force flag on scp's man page.  I'm somewhat at a loss on how
>  to do that part. Of course I could delete all the files in /home before
>  copying. But I've added programs on the new machine so that seems a
>  little much because I don't want to remove files that won't be replaced
>  and I might need.
>     Would tar be a better, quicker option? ie Create the archive
>  of /home on the old machine,
>  burn
>  it to disc, then unpack it on the new machine? I tried to make an
>  archive of my /home several times but I think I wasn't patient enough
>  or used the wrong command because it either didn't work or was taking
>  several hours. On the other hand it appears that when unpacking an
>  archive it overwrites existing files of the same name in the directory
>  it's unpacked.
>     There is probably another option I don't know about, so please
>  suggest it!
>
>  Best Regards,
>
>  --
>  Peter The Plumber sm on the Road
>  State Licensed Plumber
>  State Certified Backflow Device Tester
>  Factory Trained Boiler Install/Service
>  <http://petertheplumber.net>
>  24h Service 313.215.5175
>
>  Don't sleep with a drip! Call a licensed and experienced plumber.
>  _______________________________________________
>  mdlug mailing list
>  mdlug at mdlug.org
>  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>

I've had much success using rsync to transfer files. If security is a
concern rsync can employ the use of ssh to transfer data inside a
secure connection. If security is not a concern then I'd also
recommend NFS, as it is fairly easy to setup, and then use rsync to
transfer.

Just FYI, the following would sync "/home" on Old-Machine and New-Machine.

As root on Old-Machine:
       rsync -a -e ssh /home/ root at new-machine:/home/

There are many other options with rsync to control just what is, and
what isn't, transferred.

-- 
Ein Bielaczyc <ebielaczyc at gmail.com>

NOTICE: This E-mail (including attachments) is covered by the
Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C.2510-2521, is
confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention,
dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is
strictly  prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have
received the message in error, then delete it.


From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Mon Mar  3 23:36:22 2008
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Robert Meier)
Date: Mon,  3 Mar 2008 23:36:22 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Transfering /home with scp
In-Reply-To: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE0539956B@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	(GregWojtak@quickenloans.com)
References: <20080303132535.0f58b18f@Nokia-N800-26>
	<8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE0539956B@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
Message-ID: <20080304043622.9B283127CFB@starfox.local>

Peter,

> I'm finally at the point of transferring all my files to my new notebook.

I suggest using rsync(1).

I periodically burn a backup of my /home to cd, as routine.

> ... Can I simply use scp to copy the entire /home?

You can subject to some limits:
    1. Normal users, each have there own directory under /home.
       Consequently, if you have more than one user,
       each directory in home will have its own user and group.
       IIRC, scp will throw out this information.
       IIRC, tar will record owner information only for files it can read.
       IIRC, tar will write owner information only if run as root.
       IIRC, rsync preserves owner information in "archive" mode if able.
    2. Hard links are limited to a filesystem, and cannot be copied without
       tools not commonly supported.
       Consequently, if you have anything dependent on hard links,
       you'll have to relink those by hand.
       rsync -H will preserve hard-links where possible,
       but may take a loooong time.
       (If you don't know of anything dependent on hard links,
        then you probably don't have anything dependent on hard links.)
    3. unix knows users and groups by uid, and gid (integers) mapped
       for human use to names.
       Consequently, unless your /etc/passwd and /etc/group files map
       the same names to the same uids and gids, expect the
       human-readable names to change.

> Or are there files in /home that would be
> specific to the hardware/operating system it's on?

IMHO, there shouldn't be, but some packages have unnecessary dependencies.

> Would tar be a better, quicker option?

If you handle the uid/gid maps manually,
the tar suggestion would seem the simplest.
> # cd /home
> # tar cpf - * | ssh -l root target_host '(cd /home; tar xpf - )'

The encryption overhead of ssh, is probably less than 50% and
IMHO well worth the time saved avoiding potential network issues.

If you use sneaker net (bundle into tar file, burn to cd,
unpack from cd), you need enough space on the original disk to
hold an entire copy in the tar file.

If you burn a copy to cdrom, you have a backup in case something
happens to either your old or new hard disk.

> ... On the other hand it appears that when unpacking an archive
>  it overwrites existing files of the same name in the directory
> it's unpacked.

See -k option of tar(1).  See the -u flag of rsync(1).

Hopefully helpful,
-- 
Bob

  "There was no "before" the beginning of our universe,
   because once upon a time there was no time."
     -- John D. Barrow


From danno at umich.edu  Tue Mar  4 00:47:34 2008
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 00:47:34 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Backup Options
In-Reply-To: <20080303133411.18d4ff2b@Nokia-N800-26>
References: <20080303133411.18d4ff2b@Nokia-N800-26>
Message-ID: <20080304054734.GA31459@maniac.deathstar.org>

tar is a lot better than no backup.

a good, easy to implement scheme for snapshotted backup is described
here:

http://www.mikerubel.org/computers/rsync_snapshots/

On Mon, Mar 03, 2008 at 01:34:11PM -0500, Peter Bart wrote:
> Hello again,
>     Is tar a decent option to 'backup' ones /home? I've seen bacula,
> but it seems a little much right now. I've thought about using some
> program to create an image of my hard disk much like VMWare creates a
> snapshot. I will probably look at that when I get roundtuit, right now
> I need something quick and dirty while the roundtuit spins.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> 
> -- 
> Peter The Plumber sm on the Road
> State Licensed Plumber
> State Certified Backflow Device Tester
> Factory Trained Boiler Install/Service
> <http://petertheplumber.net>
> 24h Service 313.215.5175
> 
> Don't sleep with a drip! Call a licensed and experienced plumber.
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Tue Mar  4 02:53:16 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 02:53:16 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Transfering /home with scp
In-Reply-To: <ba6f3ba00803031852n77db3b46j1521b75995c683c0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20080303132535.0f58b18f@Nokia-N800-26>
	<ba6f3ba00803031852n77db3b46j1521b75995c683c0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47CCFFEC.6050209@hotpop.com>

Ein Bielaczyc wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 1:25 PM, Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:
>> Hi Everyone,
>>         I'm finally at the point of transferring all my files to my new
>>  notebook. The old one is a T30 Thinkpad running opensuse 10.3 and the
>>  new one is a T61 Thinkpad running opensuse 10.3. Can I simply use scp
>>  to copy the entire /home? Or are there files in /home that would be
>>  specific to the hardware/operating system it's on?
>>       If I do, I know I must use the -r flag to copy
>>  directories recursivly, the -p flag to preserve ownership and
>>  permissions. What about directories/files that allready exist and
>>  should be replaced, such as /home/.evolution? I've read that cp and scp
>>  are intentionally similar. The man page for cp lists -f as the flag to
>>  be used to replace an existing file if it can't be written to. I don't
>>  see the -f/force flag on scp's man page.  I'm somewhat at a loss on how
>>  to do that part. Of course I could delete all the files in /home before
>>  copying. But I've added programs on the new machine so that seems a
>>  little much because I don't want to remove files that won't be replaced
>>  and I might need.
>>     Would tar be a better, quicker option? ie Create the archive
>>  of /home on the old machine,
>>  burn
>>  it to disc, then unpack it on the new machine? I tried to make an
>>  archive of my /home several times but I think I wasn't patient enough
>>  or used the wrong command because it either didn't work or was taking
>>  several hours. On the other hand it appears that when unpacking an
>>  archive it overwrites existing files of the same name in the directory
>>  it's unpacked.
>>     There is probably another option I don't know about, so please
>>  suggest it!
>>
>>  Best Regards,
>>
>>  --
>>  Peter The Plumber sm on the Road
>>  State Licensed Plumber
>>  State Certified Backflow Device Tester
>>  Factory Trained Boiler Install/Service
>>  <http://petertheplumber.net>
>>  24h Service 313.215.5175
>>
>>  Don't sleep with a drip! Call a licensed and experienced plumber.
>>
> 
> I've had much success using rsync to transfer files. If security is a
> concern rsync can employ the use of ssh to transfer data inside a
> secure connection. If security is not a concern then I'd also
> recommend NFS, as it is fairly easy to setup, and then use rsync to
> transfer.

If security is a concern, he can plug both laptops into a hub
which is not connected to anything else.  Then there's no need
for ssh, or any other encryption, security BS.




From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Tue Mar  4 02:55:23 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 02:55:23 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Transfering /home with scp
In-Reply-To: <20080304043622.9B283127CFB@starfox.local>
References: <20080303132535.0f58b18f@Nokia-N800-26>	<8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE0539956B@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<20080304043622.9B283127CFB@starfox.local>
Message-ID: <47CD006B.80302@hotpop.com>

Robert Meier wrote:
> Peter,
> 
>> I'm finally at the point of transferring all my files to my new notebook.
> 
> I suggest using rsync(1).
> 
> I periodically burn a backup of my /home to cd, as routine.
> 
>> ... Can I simply use scp to copy the entire /home?
> 
> You can subject to some limits:
>     1. Normal users, each have there own directory under /home.
>        Consequently, if you have more than one user,
>        each directory in home will have its own user and group.
>        IIRC, scp will throw out this information.
>        IIRC, tar will record owner information only for files it can read.
>        IIRC, tar will write owner information only if run as root.
>        IIRC, rsync preserves owner information in "archive" mode if able.
>     2. Hard links are limited to a filesystem, and cannot be copied without
>        tools not commonly supported.
>        Consequently, if you have anything dependent on hard links,
>        you'll have to relink those by hand.
>        rsync -H will preserve hard-links where possible,
>        but may take a loooong time.
>        (If you don't know of anything dependent on hard links,
>         then you probably don't have anything dependent on hard links.)
>     3. unix knows users and groups by uid, and gid (integers) mapped
>        for human use to names.
>        Consequently, unless your /etc/passwd and /etc/group files map
>        the same names to the same uids and gids, expect the
>        human-readable names to change.
> 
>> Or are there files in /home that would be
>> specific to the hardware/operating system it's on?
> 
> IMHO, there shouldn't be, but some packages have unnecessary dependencies.
> 
>> Would tar be a better, quicker option?
> 
> If you handle the uid/gid maps manually,
> the tar suggestion would seem the simplest.
>> # cd /home
>> # tar cpf - * | ssh -l root target_host '(cd /home; tar xpf - )'
> 
> The encryption overhead of ssh, is probably less than 50% and
> IMHO well worth the time saved avoiding potential network issues.
> 

It's much simpler to simply connect the the two computers
to a hub which is not connected to anything else, or to
use a cross-over cable between the two.

Then the two machines are physically isolated from the rest
of the world, and no encryption is needed.




From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Tue Mar  4 08:21:53 2008
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Robert Meier)
Date: Tue,  4 Mar 2008 08:21:53 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Transfering /home with scp
In-Reply-To: <47CD006B.80302@hotpop.com> (message from Aaron Kulkis on Tue, 04
	Mar 2008 02:55:23 -0500)
References: <20080303132535.0f58b18f@Nokia-N800-26>	<8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE0539956B@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<20080304043622.9B283127CFB@starfox.local> <47CD006B.80302@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <20080304132153.8001C127CFD@starfox.local>

Aaron,

>>> # cd /home
>>> # tar cpf - * | ssh -l root target_host '(cd /home; tar xpf - )'

> It's much simpler to simply connect the the two computers
> to a hub which is not connected to anything else, or to
> use a cross-over cable between the two.

<UNTESTED>
bash# find /home -depth -print | cpio -ov |
>     rsh root at target_host '(cd /home; cpio -idv)'
</UNTESTED>

> Then the two machines are physically isolated from the rest
> of the world, and no encryption is needed.

Encryption is not needed for secure or isolated LAN transfer.

People suggest ssh because most distros supply it along with tools
for its easy configuration.  Because of internet security concerns,
most distros no longer provide rsh and other insecure (by default) tools.

AFAIK, opensuse-10.3, by default, supplies only ssh for scriptible
remote command execution.  IMHO, if you have more than one computer
in your LAN, I would expect you to frequently move small files
between them, and so rsh, and telnet soon become worth the effort
to install and care to use.

Hopefully helpful,
-- 
Bob

  "The saddest aspect of life right now,
   is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom."
     -- Isaac Asimov



From starline at wideopenwest.com  Tue Mar  4 08:52:41 2008
From: starline at wideopenwest.com (Bob Dion)
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 08:52:41 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Lou Novak asked us to send you this post from Engadget
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90803031511g39b509c7ne732bd31b57fb10e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200803032200.m23M0OQJ014323@acblogs-lm103.websys.aol.com>
	<b02c40e90803031511g39b509c7ne732bd31b57fb10e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47CD5429.2090807@wideopenwest.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 5:00 PM,  <lnovak1 at ford.com> wrote:
>>                  [4]Microsoft speculates on ad-supported Sync
> 
> I can see the potential in it.  The ECU could signal Sync that the
> engine efficiency is lower than normal.  Sync could then suggest
> solutions the driver can select from like "Gummout Anti-Virus for
> ECUs".

and here's an interesting article that showed up in the free press a 
couple weeks ago. Looks like MS up to their old tricks again, make 
someone else's system malfunction so they can replace it with their own.

Sync, navigation a bad match
Together they make iPod play frustrating

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080217/COL14/802170637/

BD


From gib at juno.com  Tue Mar  4 08:59:25 2008
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 13:59:25 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  Transfering /home with scp
Message-ID: <20080304.085925.24898.0@webmail07.vgs.untd.com>

 
Yeah, I saw that TV show last night: Terminator The Shara Conner Chronicles.  The bad cyborg from the future was just a memory chip but it was able to connect to a cell phone and dial out.

-- Aaron Kulkis <akulkis3 at hotpop.com> wrote:
Robert Meier wrote:
> Peter,
> 
>> I'm finally at the point of transferring all my files to my new notebook.
> 
> I suggest using rsync(1).
> 
> I periodically burn a backup of my /home to cd, as routine.
> 
>> ... Can I simply use scp to copy the entire /home?
> 
> You can subject to some limits:
>     1. Normal users, each have there own directory under /home.
>        Consequently, if you have more than one user,
>        each directory in home will have its own user and group.
>        IIRC, scp will throw out this information.
>        IIRC, tar will record owner information only for files it can read.
>        IIRC, tar will write owner information only if run as root.
>        IIRC, rsync preserves owner information in "archive" mode if able.
>     2. Hard links are limited to a filesystem, and cannot be copied without
>        tools not commonly supported.
>        Consequently, if you have anything dependent on hard links,
>        you'll have to relink those by hand.
>        rsync -H will preserve hard-links where possible,
>        but may take a loooong time.
>        (If you don't know of anything dependent on hard links,
>         then you probably don't have anything dependent on hard links.)
>     3. unix knows users and groups by uid, and gid (integers) mapped
>        for human use to names.
>        Consequently, unless your /etc/passwd and /etc/group files map
>        the same names to the same uids and gids, expect the
>        human-readable names to change.
> 
>> Or are there files in /home that would be
>> specific to the hardware/operating system it's on?
> 
> IMHO, there shouldn't be, but some packages have unnecessary dependencies.
> 
>> Would tar be a better, quicker option?
> 
> If you handle the uid/gid maps manually,
> the tar suggestion would seem the simplest.
>> # cd /home
>> # tar cpf - * | ssh -l root target_host '(cd /home; tar xpf - )'
> 
> The encryption overhead of ssh, is probably less than 50% and
> IMHO well worth the time saved avoiding potential network issues.
> 

It's much simpler to simply connect the the two computers
to a hub which is not connected to anything else, or to
use a cross-over cable between the two.

Then the two machines are physically isolated from the rest
of the world, and no encryption is needed.


_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


_____________________________________________________________
Click now to find a divorce attorney near you!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iiggZok0Ryr5VjeRJL8wlFVuEVHzc9SiaF6vScq7l1iEuiIOA/


From radkins at impelind.com  Tue Mar  4 09:13:50 2008
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 09:13:50 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Lou Novak asked us to send you this post from Engadget
In-Reply-To: <200803032200.m23M0OQJ014323@acblogs-lm103.websys.aol.com>
Message-ID: <20080304141324.F0F08C0CA@impelind.com>

I very nearly exclusively listen to NPR in my automobile.

I am very unused to listening to ads, if my automobile began to spit out
targeted ads, I would gut the entire automobile in order to remove whatever
is sending such advertisements to me and then replace it with something that
would benefit me.

As for what I'd do with the equipment, I'd probably hold onto it and see if
I could organize a large number of likewise minded individuals to
simultaneously ship all of the hardware to the offices/homes of Ford
Executives with a note sincerely advising them where they should shove the
attached equipment.

-Rob

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of lnovak1 at ford.com
> Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 5:00 PM
> To: mdlug at mdlug.org
> Subject: [mdlug] Lou Novak asked us to send you this post 
> from Engadget
> 
> 
>    From: [1]Engadget
>    URL:
>    
> [2]http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/02/microsoft-speculates-on-ad-suppo
>    rted-sync/
>    Sent from: [3]Lou Novak (lnovak1 at ford.com)
>    Sent to: mdlug at mdlug.org
>    Comments: Some speculation on the future of Sync, the 
> system found in
>    Ford products. No mention of vehicle control systems however.
>      _________________________________________________________________
> 
>                  [4]Microsoft speculates on ad-supported Sync
> 
>   03-02-2008
> 
>    Apparently, Microsoft has plans for [5]Sync that extend beyond the
>    standard voice-activation scheme they've got going right now. The
>    company wants to deliver a wider range of network connectivity for
>    in-car use, and they're debating the possibility of moving 
> away from
>    subscription-based services to an ad-funded scenario. What exactly
>    does that mean? We'll let Martin Thall, general manager of 
> Microsoft's
>    Automotive Business Unit explain: "We know where you are 
> and we know
>    where you're headed," he says, seemingly unaware of the Orwellian
>    implications. "We could target that advertising directly 
> to your car."
>    You getting that? Targeted ads. In your car. While you're driving.
>    Apparently, execs don't think you'll mind being bombarded 
> inside your
>    vehicle because you're, "used to advertising in the car. 
> We hear ads
>    on the radio and see billboards on the road." Of course, this is
>    speculation on future technologies, so nothing is set in ston e --
>    hopefully someone comes to their senses before our 
> hovercar interiors
>    glitter with holographic spam.
> 
> References
> 
>    Visible links
>    1. http://www.engadget.com/
>    2. 
> http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/02/microsoft-speculates-on-ad-
> supported-sync/
>    3. mailto:lnovak1 at ford.com
>    4. file://localhost/tmp/%PostURL
>    5. http://www.engadget.com/tag/Sync/
> 
>    Hidden links:
>    6. http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/02/microsoft-wants.html
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 



From tesral at comcast.net  Tue Mar  4 11:20:53 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 11:20:53 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Lou Novak asked us to send you this post from Engadget
In-Reply-To: <20080304141324.F0F08C0CA@impelind.com>
References: <20080304141324.F0F08C0CA@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <47CD76E5.10303@comcast.net>

Robert Adkins wrote:
> As for what I'd do with the equipment, I'd probably hold onto it and see if
> I could organize a large number of likewise minded individuals to
> simultaneously ship all of the hardware to the offices/homes of Ford
> Executives with a note sincerely advising them where they should shove the
> attached equipment.
>   

C.O.D.  I'm an NPR user too. 

I have another tactic as well.  "How much are you paying me to ride in
this car?  I don't listen to ads for nothing."

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From mdlug3 at arb.net  Tue Mar  4 11:39:50 2008
From: mdlug3 at arb.net (Dave Arbogast)
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 11:39:50 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Lou Novak asked us to send you this post from Engadget
In-Reply-To: <47CD5429.2090807@wideopenwest.com>
References: <200803032200.m23M0OQJ014323@acblogs-lm103.websys.aol.com>	<b02c40e90803031511g39b509c7ne732bd31b57fb10e@mail.gmail.com>
	<47CD5429.2090807@wideopenwest.com>
Message-ID: <47CD7B56.1010504@arb.net>



Bob Dion wrote:

>Jeff Hanson wrote:
>  
>
>>On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 5:00 PM,  <lnovak1 at ford.com> wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>                 [4]Microsoft speculates on ad-supported Sync
>>>      
>>>
>>I can see the potential in it.  The ECU could signal Sync that the
>>engine efficiency is lower than normal.  Sync could then suggest
>>solutions the driver can select from like "Gummout Anti-Virus for
>>ECUs".
>>    
>>
>
>and here's an interesting article that showed up in the free press a 
>couple weeks ago. Looks like MS up to their old tricks again, make 
>someone else's system malfunction so they can replace it with their own.
>
>Sync, navigation a bad match
>Together they make iPod play frustrating
>
>http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080217/COL14/802170637/
>
>BD
>______________
>
Notice the FreePress slurping a little info from you? Twice that page 
attempts to send data back a couple of times?

http://gcirm.dmp.gcion.com/RealMedia/ads/
http://js.revsci.net/gateway/gw.js?csid=J06575

-dave




From robert.citek at gmail.com  Tue Mar  4 12:34:31 2008
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 11:34:31 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] Transfering /home with scp
In-Reply-To: <20080303132535.0f58b18f@Nokia-N800-26>
References: <20080303132535.0f58b18f@Nokia-N800-26>
Message-ID: <4145b6790803040934g5844b671r871e079dc245cc95@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Peter,

On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 12:25 PM, Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:
>         I'm finally at the point of transferring all my files to my new
>  notebook. The old one is a T30 Thinkpad running opensuse 10.3 and the
>  new one is a T61 Thinkpad running opensuse 10.3. Can I simply use scp
>  to copy the entire /home?

You could, although as others have mentioned, rsync is probably a
better tool for the task.

> Or are there files in /home that would be
> specific to the hardware/operating system it's on?

Shouldn't be.  But it might be worth testing if you do esoteric work
with your laptop.

Some questions:

1) How big is /home on the T30?  df -hT /home
2) How big is /home on the T60?  df -hT /home
3) How do you plan to connect the two drives?  Ether network, wifi,
USB, Firewire, other?

Regards,
- Robert


From starline at wideopenwest.com  Tue Mar  4 17:38:42 2008
From: starline at wideopenwest.com (Bob Dion)
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 17:38:42 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Lou Novak asked us to send you this post from Engadget
In-Reply-To: <47CD7B56.1010504@arb.net>
References: <200803032200.m23M0OQJ014323@acblogs-lm103.websys.aol.com>	<b02c40e90803031511g39b509c7ne732bd31b57fb10e@mail.gmail.com>	<47CD5429.2090807@wideopenwest.com>
	<47CD7B56.1010504@arb.net>
Message-ID: <47CDCF72.9080707@wideopenwest.com>

Dave Arbogast wrote:
> 
> Bob Dion wrote:
> 
>> Jeff Hanson wrote:
>>  
>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 5:00 PM,  <lnovak1 at ford.com> wrote:
>>>    
>>>
>>>>                 [4]Microsoft speculates on ad-supported Sync
>>>>      
>>>>
>>> I can see the potential in it.  The ECU could signal Sync that the
>>> engine efficiency is lower than normal.  Sync could then suggest
>>> solutions the driver can select from like "Gummout Anti-Virus for
>>> ECUs".
>>>    
>>>
>> and here's an interesting article that showed up in the free press a 
>> couple weeks ago. Looks like MS up to their old tricks again, make 
>> someone else's system malfunction so they can replace it with their own.
>>
>> Sync, navigation a bad match
>> Together they make iPod play frustrating
>>
>> http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080217/COL14/802170637/
>>
>> BD
>> ______________
>>
> Notice the FreePress slurping a little info from you? Twice that page 
> attempts to send data back a couple of times?
> 
> http://gcirm.dmp.gcion.com/RealMedia/ads/
> http://js.revsci.net/gateway/gw.js?csid=J06575
> 
> -dave


How did you detect this?

I have ad blocker on so I didn't see the ads and I don't except cookies 
from third party servers.

BD


From mdlug3 at arb.net  Tue Mar  4 17:55:33 2008
From: mdlug3 at arb.net (Dave Arbogast)
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 17:55:33 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Lou Novak asked us to send you this post from Engadget
In-Reply-To: <47CDCF72.9080707@wideopenwest.com>
References: <200803032200.m23M0OQJ014323@acblogs-lm103.websys.aol.com>	<b02c40e90803031511g39b509c7ne732bd31b57fb10e@mail.gmail.com>	<47CD5429.2090807@wideopenwest.com>	<47CD7B56.1010504@arb.net>
	<47CDCF72.9080707@wideopenwest.com>
Message-ID: <47CDD365.40202@arb.net>



Bob Dion wrote:

>Dave Arbogast wrote:
>  
>
>>Bob Dion wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Jeff Hanson wrote:
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 5:00 PM,  <lnovak1 at ford.com> wrote:
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>                [4]Microsoft speculates on ad-supported Sync
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>I can see the potential in it.  The ECU could signal Sync that the
>>>>engine efficiency is lower than normal.  Sync could then suggest
>>>>solutions the driver can select from like "Gummout Anti-Virus for
>>>>ECUs".
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>and here's an interesting article that showed up in the free press a 
>>>couple weeks ago. Looks like MS up to their old tricks again, make 
>>>someone else's system malfunction so they can replace it with their own.
>>>
>>>Sync, navigation a bad match
>>>Together they make iPod play frustrating
>>>
>>>http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080217/COL14/802170637/
>>>
>>>BD
>>>______________
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>Notice the FreePress slurping a little info from you? Twice that page 
>>attempts to send data back a couple of times?
>>
>>http://gcirm.dmp.gcion.com/RealMedia/ads/
>>http://js.revsci.net/gateway/gw.js?csid=J06575
>>
>>-dave
>>    
>>
>
>
>How did you detect this?
>
>I have ad blocker on so I didn't see the ads and I don't except cookies 
>from third party servers.
>
>BD
>
my browser (Mozilla/5.0) does not have the security warnings turned off. 
So when I got 2 prompts that I was about to send unencrypted 
information, when all I did was load the link you sent us, I took notice 
and poked around the source for the domain I watched loading when it 
attempted to send back information to a host other than what I requested.

-dave


From starline at wideopenwest.com  Tue Mar  4 21:01:28 2008
From: starline at wideopenwest.com (Bob Dion)
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 21:01:28 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Lou Novak asked us to send you this post from Engadget
In-Reply-To: <47CDD365.40202@arb.net>
References: <200803032200.m23M0OQJ014323@acblogs-lm103.websys.aol.com>	<b02c40e90803031511g39b509c7ne732bd31b57fb10e@mail.gmail.com>	<47CD5429.2090807@wideopenwest.com>	<47CD7B56.1010504@arb.net>	<47CDCF72.9080707@wideopenwest.com>
	<47CDD365.40202@arb.net>
Message-ID: <47CDFEF8.3050000@wideopenwest.com>

Dave Arbogast wrote:
> 
> Bob Dion wrote:
> 
>> Dave Arbogast wrote:
>>  
>>
>>> Bob Dion wrote:
>>>
>>>    
>>>
>>>> Jeff Hanson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 5:00 PM,  <lnovak1 at ford.com> wrote:
>>>>>   
>>>>>
>>>>>        
>>>>>
>>>>>>                [4]Microsoft speculates on ad-supported Sync
>>>>>>     
>>>>>>
>>>>>>          
>>>>>>
>>>>> I can see the potential in it.  The ECU could signal Sync that the
>>>>> engine efficiency is lower than normal.  Sync could then suggest
>>>>> solutions the driver can select from like "Gummout Anti-Virus for
>>>>> ECUs".
>>>>>   
>>>>>
>>>>>        
>>>>>
>>>> and here's an interesting article that showed up in the free press a 
>>>> couple weeks ago. Looks like MS up to their old tricks again, make 
>>>> someone else's system malfunction so they can replace it with their own.
>>>>
>>>> Sync, navigation a bad match
>>>> Together they make iPod play frustrating
>>>>
>>>> http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080217/COL14/802170637/
>>>>
>>>> BD
>>>> ______________
>>>>
>>>>      
>>>>
>>> Notice the FreePress slurping a little info from you? Twice that page 
>>> attempts to send data back a couple of times?
>>>
>>> http://gcirm.dmp.gcion.com/RealMedia/ads/
>>> http://js.revsci.net/gateway/gw.js?csid=J06575
>>>
>>> -dave
>>>    
>>>
>>
>> How did you detect this?
>>
>> I have ad blocker on so I didn't see the ads and I don't except cookies 
>>from third party servers.
>> BD
>>
> my browser (Mozilla/5.0) does not have the security warnings turned off. 
> So when I got 2 prompts that I was about to send unencrypted 
> information, when all I did was load the link you sent us, I took notice 
> and poked around the source for the domain I watched loading when it 
> attempted to send back information to a host other than what I requested.
> 
> -dave

Thanks for the warning.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Mar  5 18:35:20 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 18:35:20 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Athens schools promote 'open source' computing
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803051535r9dc6e53x3719e1f21d601951@mail.gmail.com>

Has everyone seen this?  Anyone here involved or know someone who is
in that district's IT dept?

----------------------------------------
LANSING ? Athens Area Schools is spreading its wisdom on the use of
open source computer technology to educators around the state.

On Tuesday, representatives from Athens gave a presentation on their
open source experience at the 2008 Governor's Education Summit in
Lansing.

http://www.battlecreekenquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080305/NEWS01/803050312/1002/NEWS01

----------------------------------------

Note the naysayer who has already pooped on it.


From amajorov at sbcglobal.net  Wed Mar  5 19:10:56 2008
From: amajorov at sbcglobal.net (allen)
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 19:10:56 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Athens schools promote 'open source' computing
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90803051535r9dc6e53x3719e1f21d601951@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e90803051535r9dc6e53x3719e1f21d601951@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47CF3690.2000901@sbcglobal.net>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> Has everyone seen this?  Anyone here involved or know someone who is
> in that district's IT dept?
>
> ----------------------------------------
> LANSING ? Athens Area Schools is spreading its wisdom on the use of
> open source computer technology to educators around the state.
>
> On Tuesday, representatives from Athens gave a presentation on their
> open source experience at the 2008 Governor's Education Summit in
> Lansing.
>
> http://www.battlecreekenquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080305/NEWS01/803050312/1002/NEWS01
>
> ----------------------------------------
>
> Note the naysayer who has already pooped on it.
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>   
Interesting. I wonder who got the ball rolling and how many districts, 
statewide or nationwide, are also using Linux?

Allen


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Mar  5 19:21:18 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 19:21:18 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Meeting March 8?
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803051621n16b15b21h83f7597985c0ddf4@mail.gmail.com>

Topic?  Argue over the flyer?


From tesral at comcast.net  Wed Mar  5 20:32:37 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:32:37 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Meeting March 8?
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90803051621n16b15b21h83f7597985c0ddf4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e90803051621n16b15b21h83f7597985c0ddf4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47CF49B5.6090803@comcast.net>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> Topic?  Argue over the flyer?
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>   
I haven't gotten much useful in the suggestion department.  I guess I
fall back on my own meager skills.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Wed Mar  5 20:12:53 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:12:53 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Meeting March 8?
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90803051621n16b15b21h83f7597985c0ddf4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e90803051621n16b15b21h83f7597985c0ddf4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47CF4515.2030809@hotpop.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> Topic?  Argue over the flyer?

Let's make a flyer,
and then argue over the meeting topic :-)




From carl at carltm.com  Tue Mar  4 19:25:44 2008
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 19:25:44 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Position in Southfield
Message-ID: <11408.216.144.215.245.1204676744.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

A friend of mine knows of a position in Southfield for an experienced
Linux administrator.  Let me know if you're interested.

BS/BA Degree and 5-8 years experience with: RedHat Linux, Operating
System, Networking, NFS, SAN, SFTP, Oracle Applications 11i, Oracle
Database 10g, SFTP, PGP encryption, RAC, F5 Big IP experience, NetApp
Storage (volume creation/maintenance tasks) experience.

c




From gib at juno.com  Thu Mar  6 10:44:41 2008
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 15:44:41 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] Meeting March 8?
Message-ID: <20080306.104441.28620.0@webmail08.vgs.untd.com>

 
Penguicon.org options?

-- "Jeff Hanson" <jhansonxi at gmail.com> wrote:
Topic?  Argue over the flyer?
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


_____________________________________________________________
Free Information on the Best Online Banking. Click Here.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iiehKshTGzNMtqFFN3nkwsJheJIX32nRXU5JIREoMmyupbTAQ/


From mathew.enders at prodigy.net  Thu Mar  6 14:26:48 2008
From: mathew.enders at prodigy.net (Mathew Enders)
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 14:26:48 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Meeting March 8?
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90803051621n16b15b21h83f7597985c0ddf4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e90803051621n16b15b21h83f7597985c0ddf4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1204831608.6203.38.camel@laptop01>

On Wed, 2008-03-05 at 19:21 -0500, Jeff Hanson wrote:
> Topic?  Argue over the flyer?
> _______________________________________________

We have a presentation on digital photography



From driveray at ameritech.net  Fri Mar  7 02:58:27 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 02:58:27 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] MDLUG Meeting March 8
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90803051621n16b15b21h83f7597985c0ddf4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e90803051621n16b15b21h83f7597985c0ddf4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47D0F5A3.8050609@ameritech.net>

MDLUG meeting at The Gaudior Academy in Inkster this Saturday 1230p to
230p??? At Gaudior Academy 27100 Avondale Avenue Inkster MI 48141
Please park on south (street) side of building.

This month's meeting features a presentation on digital photography by
Bill Buchanan. Mr. Buchanan  <http://www.thepixelmeister.com/> is
Chairman of the Electronic Imaging Division of Detroit's Photographic
Guild <http://www.thephotoguild.org/home.htm>.

I saw Mr. Buchanan's presentation "Making Pictures as Opposed to Taking
Pictures" at the January SEMCO (South East Michigan Computer
Organization). I was impressed with the quality of the presentation, Mr.
Buchanan's knowledge of the subject, and the software agnosticism of his
presentation. He focused on camera features and functions, and
photographic techniques. When he did mention software he made it clear
that there was a wide variety of applications to choose from, and spoke
well of the GIMP.

After the (SEMCO) meeting I got one of his cards, and asked if he might
be willing to give his talk to us. After making further contact he
agreed. While not Linux specific (Mr. Buchanan currently uses an *cough*
other OS but has had some good experiences with Linux) I though that our
group would find his presentation informative, interesting, and a bit of
a change of pace.

I'm hoping for a good turn out.
See you all there
Raymond McLaughlin
President MDLUG


From otakurider at gmail.com  Fri Mar  7 11:29:24 2008
From: otakurider at gmail.com (-)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 11:29:24 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Position in Southfield
In-Reply-To: <11408.216.144.215.245.1204676744.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
References: <11408.216.144.215.245.1204676744.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <cd5131a50803070829u7d6beba6yd6d6882298acb66d@mail.gmail.com>

Looks interesting do you have any more info?

Thanks

On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 7:25 PM, Carl T. Miller <carl at carltm.com> wrote:

> A friend of mine knows of a position in Southfield for an experienced
> Linux administrator.  Let me know if you're interested.
>
> BS/BA Degree and 5-8 years experience with: RedHat Linux, Operating
> System, Networking, NFS, SAN, SFTP, Oracle Applications 11i, Oracle
> Database 10g, SFTP, PGP encryption, RAC, F5 Big IP experience, NetApp
> Storage (volume creation/maintenance tasks) experience.
>
> c
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  7 13:35:01 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 10:35:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] OpenSuse 11.0 Alpha
Message-ID: <443404.82983.qm@web37910.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Has any one installed it yet?

David C. Lane






      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ 


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Fri Mar  7 13:44:15 2008
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 12:44:15 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] OpenSuse 11.0 Alpha
In-Reply-To: <443404.82983.qm@web37910.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <443404.82983.qm@web37910.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4145b6790803071044l75411ad1w1657f78782913a6f@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 12:35 PM, David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Has any one installed it yet?

Doesn't seem to be available yet:

http://software.opensuse.org/

Or do you have a link?

Regards,
- Robert


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  7 14:44:58 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 11:44:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] OpenSuse 11.0 Alpha
Message-ID: <880201.13215.qm@web37914.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

You are right. I dont have a link. The Links dont currently work.

I'm happy to see that OpenSuse is continuing to press forward.

David 


----- Original Message ----
From: Robert Citek <robert.citek at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Friday, March 7, 2008 1:44:15 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] OpenSuse 11.0 Alpha

On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 12:35 PM, David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Has any one installed it yet?

Doesn't seem to be available yet:

http://software.opensuse.org/

Or do you have a link?

Regards,
- Robert
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug






      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  7 14:46:31 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 11:46:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] OpenSuse 11.0 Alpha
Message-ID: <692529.26732.qm@web37910.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

This is the development Ver.

http://en.opensuse.org/Development_Version


----- Original Message ----
From: Robert Citek <robert.citek at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Friday, March 7, 2008 1:44:15 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] OpenSuse 11.0 Alpha

On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 12:35 PM, David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Has any one installed it yet?

Doesn't seem to be available yet:

http://software.opensuse.org/

Or do you have a link?

Regards,
- Robert
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug






      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


From otakurider at gmail.com  Sat Mar  8 10:13:50 2008
From: otakurider at gmail.com (-)
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 10:13:50 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] missing today
Message-ID: <cd5131a50803080713v5e082bado3ed618b5d469b9a6@mail.gmail.com>

Not able to make it to meeting today.

Pat


From driveray at ameritech.net  Sun Mar  9 01:52:48 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2008 01:52:48 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Minutes of Saturday March 8 MDLUG meeting
Message-ID: <47D38940.4080706@ameritech.net>

MDLUGers:

The March 2008 meeting of MDLUG was held at The Gaudior Academy in
Inkster this afternoon Saturday 3/8. The doors opened shortly after
12:00pm, and the meeting came to "order" just before 1:00, with
President Raymond McLaughlin presiding.

A total of 10 people signed the sign-in sheet, but there were three rows
of tables, and at least 5 people per row, so actual attendance was at
least 15. Several people came in during the presentation.

This month's meeting featured a presentation on digital photography by
Bill Buchanan. Mr. Buchanan  <http://www.thepixelmeister.com/> is
president of of Detroit's Photographic Guild
<http://www.thephotoguild.org/home.htm>, as well as Chairman of the
Guild's Electronic Imaging Division. His presentation, was well received
by the group, with many questions and at least as many answers.

The Power Point version of this presentation will be posted to our web
site when it becomes available. It was largely similar to the
presentation, "Making Pictures as Opposed to Taking Pictures", that  Mr.
Buchanan gave to the January meeting of SEMCO (South East Michigan
Computer Organization). SEMCO provides a podcast of this meeting here:
<http://www.semco.org/Data/SP0801a.mp3>. Mr Buchanan's presentation
starts 44:10 into the 1:50:40 podcast, (a ~20MB file).

Additional useful links recommended by Mr Buchanan:
Digital Camera reviews:<http://dpreview.com/>
Steve's Digicams:<http://www.steves-digicams.com/>
and
Tim Grey: <http://timgrey.com/>

Other business discussed at the meeting: Garry announced that four of
the five remaining members of DCG (Downriver Computer Group, nee
Downriver Commodore Group) were in attendance, and that they had agreed
to consider their group to also be in meeting. He also announced that
DCG had revoked their dues requirements for membership, and invited all
present to join. This is part of their effort to keep their organization
running, membered, and preserve their 501(c) educational organizational
status. Additionally they have requested that an MDLUG-retro mailing
list be added to the club server. Server Admin. Raymond McLaughlin said
he would see to this in the coming month.

There was some discussion of future officer's meetings, to be discussed
among the officers and appointees.

As club Secretary Mary Tomich was not present these minutes were
prepared by the President.

Reporting
Raymond McLaughlin
President MDLUG



From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Sun Mar  9 03:49:46 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2008 03:49:46 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
Message-ID: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com>


   Level: Intermediate

Michael Stutz (stutz at dsl.org), Author, Consultant
  12 Dec 2006

Adopt 10 good habits that improve your UNIX? command line efficiency 
-- and break away from bad usage patterns in the process. This 
article takes you step-by-step through several good, but too often 
neglected, techniques for command-line operations. Learn about 
common errors and how to overcome them, so you can learn exactly why 
these UNIX habits are worth picking up.

Introduction

When you use a system often, you tend to fall into set usage 
patterns. Sometimes, you do not start the habit of doing things in 
the best possible way. Sometimes, you even pick up bad practices 
that lead to clutter and clumsiness. One of the best ways to correct 
such inadequacies is to conscientiously pick up good habits that 
counteract them. This article suggests 10 UNIX command-line habits 
worth picking up -- good habits that help you break many common 
usage foibles and make you more productive at the command line in 
the process. Each habit is described in more detail following the 
list of good habits.

<http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/aix/library/au-badunixhabits.html?ca=dgr-lnxw06tenunixtips&S_TACT=105AGX59&S_CMP=GR>




From driveray at ameritech.net  Sun Mar  9 17:23:43 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2008 17:23:43 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>    Level: Intermediate
> 
> Michael Stutz (stutz at dsl.org), Author, Consultant
>   12 Dec 2006
> 
> Adopt 10 good habits that improve your UNIX command line efficiency 
<Snip>
<http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/aix/library/au-badunixhabits.html?ca=dgr-lnxw06tenunixtips&S_TACT=105AGX59&S_CMP=GR>

This looks pretty good, but isn't quite as clear as it could be. For
instance, after introducing: the "&&" and "||"  control operators we are
given this, without explanation

  Listing 7. A combined example of good habit #3: Combining commands
with control operators
  ~ $ cd tmp/a/b/c || mkdir -p tmp/a/b/c && tar xvf -C tmp/a/b/c
~/archive.tar

So does execution stop if the cd command, or just skip the mkdir command
and move on to the tar command? I would guess the later is what would be
desired, but a sentence stating so would remove such guess work.

Also, the next listing doesn't work as advertised, at least not in BASH
on my system (OpenSuSE 10.3).

  Listing 8. Example of good habit #4: Quoting (and not quoting) a variable

  ~ $ ls tmp/
  a b
  ~ $ VAR="tmp/*"
  ~ $ echo $VAR
  tmp/a tmp/b
  ~ $ echo "$VAR"
  tmp/*
  ~ $ echo $VARa

  ~ $ echo "$VARa"

  ~ $ echo "${VAR}a"
  tmp/*a
  ~ $ echo ${VAR}a
  tmp/a

This all works the same for me, except that last one. On my system the
last two do the same thing:

  pts/1 $ echo "{$VAR}a"
  {tmp/*}a
  pts/1 $ echo {$VAR}a
  {tmp/*}a
  pts/1 $

I don't know if the author used a different shell, or has different
globbing options set, but I don't see just how that last one is even
supposed to work.

This article seems worth the read, but seems to need a little work.

Regards
Raymond McLaughlin



From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Sun Mar  9 18:06:46 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2008 18:06:46 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com> <47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <47D45F76.1040201@hotpop.com>

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>>    Level: Intermediate
>>
>> Michael Stutz (stutz at dsl.org), Author, Consultant
>>   12 Dec 2006
>>
>> Adopt 10 good habits that improve your UNIX command line efficiency 
> <Snip>
> <http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/aix/library/au-badunixhabits.html?ca=dgr-lnxw06tenunixtips&S_TACT=105AGX59&S_CMP=GR>
> 
> This looks pretty good, but isn't quite as clear as it could be. For
> instance, after introducing: the "&&" and "||"  control operators we are
> given this, without explanation
> 
>   Listing 7. A combined example of good habit #3: Combining commands
> with control operators
>   ~ $ cd tmp/a/b/c || mkdir -p tmp/a/b/c && tar xvf -C tmp/a/b/c
> ~/archive.tar




> 
> So does execution stop if the cd command, or just skip the mkdir command
> and move on to the tar command? I would guess the later is what would be
> desired, but a sentence stating so would remove such guess work.
> 


It has to do with logical shortcuts

In a logical OR expression ( || ), if the first term is true
(successful execution with no errors), then expression MUST
be true, and the second term doesn't need to be evaluated
(executed)... so it isn't.

For two commands, cmd1 and cmd2

        cmd 2
   || | T | F |
c ---+---+---+
m  T | T | T | <= cmd1 true, so expression is true.
d ---+---+---+
1  F | T | F | <= 1st cmd false, expression is indeterminate.
   ---+---+---+
so

cmd1 || _cmd2_to_run_only_if_cmd1_fails_


For
command1 || command2
read as: Do command1 OR (if you couldn't) do command2


Similarly for logical AND ( && ), if the first term is false,
the whole expression is false, and the second term doesn't
need to be evaluated (executed).

        Cmd 2
   && | T | F |
C ---+---+---+
m  T | T | F | <= 1st cmd true, expression is indeterminate.
d ---+---+---+
1  F | F | F | <= 1st cmd false,  so expression is false
   ---+---+---+

cmd1 && _cmd2_to_run_only_if_cmd1_succeeds_

for
command1 && command2
read as: do command1 AND (if successful) continue with Command2



The "ultimate" example here

cmdA && _cmdB_to_run_only_if_cmdA_fails || 
cmdC_to_run_only_if_either_cmdA_or_cmd_B_succeeds


> Also, the next listing doesn't work as advertised, at least not in BASH
> on my system (OpenSuSE 10.3).
> 
>   Listing 8. Example of good habit #4: Quoting (and not quoting) a variable
> 
>   ~ $ ls tmp/
>   a b
>   ~ $ VAR="tmp/*"
>   ~ $ echo $VAR
>   tmp/a tmp/b
>   ~ $ echo "$VAR"
>   tmp/*
>   ~ $ echo $VARa
> 
>   ~ $ echo "$VARa"
> 
>   ~ $ echo "${VAR}a"
>   tmp/*a
>   ~ $ echo ${VAR}a
>   tmp/a
> 
> This all works the same for me, except that last one. On my system the
> last two do the same thing:
> 
>   pts/1 $ echo "{$VAR}a"
>   {tmp/*}a
>   pts/1 $ echo {$VAR}a
>   {tmp/*}a
>   pts/1 $
> 
> I don't know if the author used a different shell, or has different
> globbing options set, but I don't see just how that last one is even
> supposed to work.

probably the file globbing setting.

> 
> This article seems worth the read, but seems to need a little work.
> 

Yeah, it's not quite as clear as it should be....

And the author really should have specified that some of
these things are most beneficial in shell-scripting than
for interactive use on the command line.

There's really no need for using || or &&
when using the shell on a commmand line, because you
can immediately see if the first command fails or
succeeds.

On the other hand, when giving helpful commands on a
mailing list... the && and || tools can be useful,
rather than "and if the directory isn't present, then
run mkdir...   to create it"

> Regards
> Raymond McLaughlin



From peter at petertheplumber.net  Sun Mar  9 21:55:24 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2008 21:55:24 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Transfering /home with scp
In-Reply-To: <ba6f3ba00803031852n77db3b46j1521b75995c683c0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20080303132535.0f58b18f@Nokia-N800-26>
	<ba6f3ba00803031852n77db3b46j1521b75995c683c0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1205114124.27006.4.camel@peter-notebook.site>


On Mon, 2008-03-03 at 21:52 -0500, Ein Bielaczyc wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 1:25 PM, Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:
> > Hi Everyone,
> >         I'm finally at the point of transferring all my files to my new
> >  notebook. The old one is a T30 Thinkpad running opensuse 10.3 and the
> >  new one is a T61 Thinkpad running opensuse 10.3. 

<snip>

> 
> I've had much success using rsync to transfer files. If security is a
> concern rsync can employ the use of ssh to transfer data inside a
> secure connection. If security is not a concern then I'd also
> recommend NFS, as it is fairly easy to setup, and then use rsync to
> transfer.
> 
> Just FYI, the following would sync "/home" on Old-Machine and New-Machine.
> 
> As root on Old-Machine:
>        rsync -a -e ssh /home/ root at new-machine:/home/
> 
> There are many other options with rsync to control just what is, and
> what isn't, transferred.

	Thank you all for your suggestions and advice. I ended up using the
above method along with the flags for viewing progress. Everything
worked magically and all was transferred in a matter of minutes!
Everything works as expected and I am now happily using my new laptop.

Best Regards,

-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From eaglecoach at wwnet.com  Mon Mar 10 00:41:57 2008
From: eaglecoach at wwnet.com (Robert Meier)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 00:41:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net> (message from Raymond McLaughlin
	on Sun, 09 Mar 2008 17:23:43 -0400)
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com> <47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>

Ray, Aaron,

>  ~ $ echo "${VAR}a"
>  tmp/*a
>  ~ $ echo ${VAR}a
>  tmp/a
>
> This all works the same for me, except that last one. On my system the
> last two do the same thing:
>
>  pts/1 $ echo "{$VAR}a"
>  {tmp/*}a
>  pts/1 $ echo {$VAR}a
>  {tmp/*}a
>  pts/1 $

> I don't know if the author used a different shell, or has different
> globbing options set, but I don't see just how that last one is even
> supposed to work.

The difference is the subtle difference between {$ and ${ .
The ${...} "quotes" the name inside which may have special variables, spaces,
...
{$ is treated as two separate tokens.
The { is just a character prepended to the word, and $... evaluates
the token that follows, which ends at the next space or special character.

  {$VAR}a is tokenized as '{'"$VAR"'}''a' .
  ${VAR}a is tokenized as "${VAR}"'a'



>[
> command || expression
> read as: Do command OR (if you couldn't) do expression
> command && expression
> read as: do command AND (if successful) continue with expression
>]

As Aaron's summary shows,
  || and && behave more like perl's
  unless(command) {expression} and if(command) {expression}
and less like true logical operators.



>> This article seems worth the read, but seems to need a little work.

> Yeah, it's not quite as clear as it should be....

I posted some suggestions to IBM.
I included also the conflict between xargs (hint 8)
which splits filenames with spaces and quoting (hint 4)
which maintains filenames.
I suggested using find ... | while read f; do ... "$f" ...; done
as more portable, flexible, and less error prone.

Thanks for the pointer,
-- 
Bob

  "Each problem that I solved became a rule,
   which served afterwards to solve other problems."
     -- Rene Descartes


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Mon Mar 10 01:22:45 2008
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 00:22:45 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com> <47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>
	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>
Message-ID: <4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 9, 2008 at 11:41 PM, Robert Meier <eaglecoach at wwnet.com> wrote:
>  I posted some suggestions to IBM.
>  I included also the conflict between xargs (hint 8)
>  which splits filenames with spaces and quoting (hint 4)
>  which maintains filenames.
>  I suggested using find ... | while read f; do ... "$f" ...; done
>  as more portable, flexible, and less error prone.

Alternatively, you can use the -print0 option to find and the -0
option to xargs.  Perhaps not as portable, but nevertheless useful.

As for the piping cat, I take that rule with a grain of salt.  For
instance, when I'm building up a series of command, I'll often start
with head or grep or similar to pare down date in a largefile.  Then
once I'm confident the pipeline will work, I'll substitute cat.  To
borrow the example on the page, this command:

$ head tmp/a/longfile.txt | grep and

may become this:

$ grep foo tmp/a/longfile.txt | grep and

before it becomes this:

$ cat tmp/a/longfile.txt | grep and

Another reason is that some commands generate different output when
piped vs. when used as arguments.  For example, contrast the output of
these commands:

$ cat /etc/passwd /etc/group | wc -l
$ wc -l /etc/passwd /etc/group

and these:

$ cat /etc/passwd /etc/group | grep root
$ grep root /etc/passwd /etc/group

Regards,
- Robert


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Mon Mar 10 01:52:30 2008
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 00:52:30 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <47D45F76.1040201@hotpop.com>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com> <47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>
	<47D45F76.1040201@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <4145b6790803092252w4af58dc2g75e7d605cc6c5461@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 9, 2008 at 5:06 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis3 at hotpop.com> wrote:
>  The "ultimate" example here
>
>  cmdA && _cmdB_to_run_only_if_cmdA_fails ||
>  cmdC_to_run_only_if_either_cmdA_or_cmd_B_succeeds

Did you mean to switch the operators:

cmdA || _cmdB_to_run_only_if_cmdA_fails &&
cmdC_to_run_only_if_either_cmdA_or_cmd_B_succeeds

For example:

$ true || true && echo yes
yes
$ true || false && echo yes
yes
$ false || true && echo yes
yes
$ false || false && echo yes

Or did you mean cmdC_to_run_only_if_either_cmdA_or_cmd_B_fail.

For example:

$ true && true || echo yes
$ true && false || echo yes
yes
$ false && true || echo yes
yes
$ false && false || echo yes
yes

Regards,
- Robert


From micorral at comcast.net  Mon Mar 10 03:19:16 2008
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 03:19:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com> <47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>
	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>
	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>

2008-03-10, Monsieur Robert Citek a ecrit:
> contrast the output of these commands:
>
> $ cat /etc/passwd /etc/group | grep root
> $ grep root /etc/passwd /etc/group

grep -h root /etc/passwd /etc/group

That will give the same output as the cat+pipe version.
So calling cat is unnecessary in this example, since the one grep
command does the same as two commands and a pipe.

In my experience I've found that calling cat is unnecessary about 95%
of the time.

Michael


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Mon Mar 10 03:01:01 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 03:01:01 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com>
	<47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>
	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47D4DCAD.1030706@hotpop.com>

Robert Citek wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 9, 2008 at 11:41 PM, Robert Meier <eaglecoach at wwnet.com> wrote:
>>  I posted some suggestions to IBM.
>>  I included also the conflict between xargs (hint 8)
>>  which splits filenames with spaces and quoting (hint 4)
>>  which maintains filenames.
>>  I suggested using find ... | while read f; do ... "$f" ...; done
>>  as more portable, flexible, and less error prone.
> 
> Alternatively, you can use the -print0 option to find and the -0
> option to xargs.  Perhaps not as portable, but nevertheless useful.
> 
> As for the piping cat, I take that rule with a grain of salt.  For
> instance, when I'm building up a series of command, I'll often start
> with head or grep or similar to pare down date in a largefile.  Then
> once I'm confident the pipeline will work, I'll substitute cat.  To
> borrow the example on the page, this command:
> 
> $ head tmp/a/longfile.txt | grep and
> 
> may become this:
> 
> $ grep foo tmp/a/longfile.txt | grep and
> 
> before it becomes this:
> 
> $ cat tmp/a/longfile.txt | grep and

Thats what the file redirect operator is for.

catting a single file, without flags, into a pipe
is nothing more than a waste of CPU cycles.


> 
> Another reason is that some commands generate different output when
> piped vs. when used as arguments.  For example, contrast the output of
> these commands:
> 
> $ cat /etc/passwd /etc/group | wc -l
> $ wc -l /etc/passwd /etc/group
> 
> and these:
> 
> $ cat /etc/passwd /etc/group | grep root
> $ grep root /etc/passwd /etc/group

cat (short for conCATenate files) is legitimately used
when the contents of 2 or more files need to be directed
to a pipe.

But for a single file...it's poor programming.






From robert.citek at gmail.com  Mon Mar 10 04:51:25 2008
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 03:51:25 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com> <47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>
	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>
	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <4145b6790803100151o14596023v46659d74fc842b57@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 2:19 AM, Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net> wrote:
> 2008-03-10, Monsieur Robert Citek a ecrit:
>
> > contrast the output of these commands:
>
> > $ cat /etc/passwd /etc/group | grep root
>  > $ grep root /etc/passwd /etc/group
>
>  grep -h root /etc/passwd /etc/group
>
>  That will give the same output as the cat+pipe version.
>  So calling cat is unnecessary in this example, since the one grep
>  command does the same as two commands and a pipe.

Agreed.

But my point was about not taking that rule (or any of the rules) as
dogma.  Sometimes maintaining a pattern is more important than
execution efficiency.  In many cases, I find the pattern "$prog1
$files | $prog2" easier and more consistent to work with.  So I'll use
it, regardless if $prog1 is cat or if $files expands to only one file.

Besides, if I'm worrying about execution efficiency, I should probably
be writing the program in C and not in shell.

Regards,
- Robert


From micorral at comcast.net  Mon Mar 10 05:37:22 2008
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 05:37:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <4145b6790803100151o14596023v46659d74fc842b57@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com> <47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>
	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>
	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>
	<4145b6790803100151o14596023v46659d74fc842b57@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100522570.8484@banana.sluggo.net>

2008-03-10, Monsieur Robert Citek a ecrit:
> But my point was about not taking that rule (or any of the rules) as
> dogma.  Sometimes maintaining a pattern is more important than
> execution efficiency. In many cases, I find the pattern "$prog1
> $files | $prog2" easier and more consistent to work with.  So I'll use
> it, regardless if $prog1 is cat or if $files expands to only one file.

Well, that pattern can get you into trouble. For example, do this
in bash:

x=hello
echo "goodbye" | read x
echo "${x}"

While I wouldn't make a "dogma" of not calling cat, neither would I
make a fetish of that "pattern" you like so much.

> Besides, if I'm worrying about execution efficiency, I should probably
> be writing the program in C and not in shell.

So efficiency of shell scripts doesn't matter? I think there are a lot
of sysadmins (and their bosses) who would disagree with that.

By that argument, you should write the program in assembly language,
not C. The point is, you should strive for efficiency no matter what
language is used. In the vast majority of cases, calling cat is not
efficient.

Michael


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Mon Mar 10 14:22:48 2008
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 13:22:48 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100522570.8484@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com> <47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>
	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>
	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>
	<4145b6790803100151o14596023v46659d74fc842b57@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100522570.8484@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <4145b6790803101122t3ad8b078w55e56a5d3bffacd@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 4:37 AM, Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net> wrote:
> The point is, you should strive for efficiency no matter what
> language is used. In the vast majority of cases, calling cat is not
> efficient.

OK.  In your world, execution efficiency is of utmost importance.  In
my world, it's just one of many factors to consider.  The nice thing
about Unix is that you have the choice.

Regards,
- Robert


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Mon Mar 10 03:40:36 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 03:40:36 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com>
	<47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <47D4E5F4.8090409@hotpop.com>

Michael Corral wrote:
> 2008-03-10, Monsieur Robert Citek a ecrit:
>> contrast the output of these commands:
>>
>> $ cat /etc/passwd /etc/group | grep root
>> $ grep root /etc/passwd /etc/group
> 
> grep -h root /etc/passwd /etc/group
> 
> That will give the same output as the cat+pipe version.
> So calling cat is unnecessary in this example, since the one grep
> command does the same as two commands and a pipe.
> 
> In my experience I've found that calling cat is unnecessary about 95%
> of the time.
> 

The only times cat is necessary...

1: you want the to use one of the flags of cat, such as:
    cat -n file1 | cmd
    to prepend each line with a line number.

2: Multiple files to be processed as a single input stream.

    cat file1 file2 [file3...] | cmd


For all other cases, if the command does not have the ability
to read from a file named as a command line argument, file
redirection ALWAYS works (it's set up by the shell)


$ cat file | cmd1 [flags and args here] | cmd2

is better done as

$ cmd [flags and args here] < file | cmd2

and you can EVEN do this

$ < file cmd1 [flags and args here] | cmd2


Anything else is Gratuitous Use of cat -- 5 yard penalty.




From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Mon Mar 10 14:54:54 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:54:54 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <4145b6790803100151o14596023v46659d74fc842b57@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com>
	<47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>
	<4145b6790803100151o14596023v46659d74fc842b57@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47D583FE.8020800@hotpop.com>

Robert Citek wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 2:19 AM, Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net> wrote:
>> 2008-03-10, Monsieur Robert Citek a ecrit:
>>
>>> contrast the output of these commands:
>>> $ cat /etc/passwd /etc/group | grep root
>>  > $ grep root /etc/passwd /etc/group
>>
>>  grep -h root /etc/passwd /etc/group
>>
>>  That will give the same output as the cat+pipe version.
>>  So calling cat is unnecessary in this example, since the one grep
>>  command does the same as two commands and a pipe.
> 
> Agreed.
> 
> But my point was about not taking that rule (or any of the rules) as
> dogma.
 >  Sometimes maintaining a pattern is more important than
> execution efficiency.  In many cases, I find the pattern "$prog1
> $files | $prog2" easier and more consistent to work with.  So I'll use
> it, regardless if $prog1 is cat or if $files expands to only one file.

That's small-minded.

Using
  $ cat file | command -flags | command2
to accomplish
  $ command -flags < file | command2
is just ludicrous.

And if it's that hard to read, then do it like this:
$ <file command -flags | command2


You write a shell script to do some task...

And then someone else writes a shell-script, which has a giant
for loop and calls your script in their script....

It's ridiculous cpu cycle waste...
An unnecessary fork() + exec()... all for the purpose of
reading a file, and moving the bytes from one buffer to
another to another, when the same thing can be accomplished
by simply using the facility which was specifically designed
to do that with far less over-head: namely file redirection.

> 
> Besides, if I'm worrying about execution efficiency, I should probably
> be writing the program in C and not in shell.

You never know how your code is going to be re-used by someone else.
Introducing NEEDLESS inefficiency is silly.

And there's not always an advantage to writing in C.
For one, you have to debug whatever you're doing, whereas
the building blocks of a shell-script consist of
well-debugged code.

Replicating an AWK or SED expression in C is not always
a trivial matter.




From cvweiss at gmail.com  Mon Mar 10 20:56:32 2008
From: cvweiss at gmail.com (Clinton V. Weiss)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:56:32 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <47D4E5F4.8090409@hotpop.com>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com>	<47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>
	<47D4E5F4.8090409@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <47D5D8C0.2060407@gmail.com>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> Michael Corral wrote:
>   
>> 2008-03-10, Monsieur Robert Citek a ecrit:
>>     
>>> contrast the output of these commands:
>>>
>>> $ cat /etc/passwd /etc/group | grep root
>>> $ grep root /etc/passwd /etc/group
>>>       
>> grep -h root /etc/passwd /etc/group
>>
>> That will give the same output as the cat+pipe version.
>> So calling cat is unnecessary in this example, since the one grep
>> command does the same as two commands and a pipe.
>>
>> In my experience I've found that calling cat is unnecessary about 95%
>> of the time.
>>
>>     
>
> The only times cat is necessary...
>
> 1: you want the to use one of the flags of cat, such as:
>     cat -n file1 | cmd
>     to prepend each line with a line number.
>
> 2: Multiple files to be processed as a single input stream.
>
>     cat file1 file2 [file3...] | cmd

3. I want to quickly read the contents of the file.

Clinton =)


From treii28 at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 10 22:23:48 2008
From: treii28 at yahoo.com (Scott Webster Wood)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:23:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
Message-ID: <178268.81497.qm@web38015.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

And learning to use awk/sed well is silly when there's perl.

SW

----- Original Message ----
From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis3 at hotpop.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>

And there's not always an advantage to writing in C.
For one, you have to debug whatever you're doing, whereas
the building blocks of a shell-script consist of
well-debugged code.

Replicating an AWK or SED expression in C is not always
a trivial matter.


_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug





      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Tue Mar 11 07:12:40 2008
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 06:12:40 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <47D583FE.8020800@hotpop.com>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com> <47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>
	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>
	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>
	<4145b6790803100151o14596023v46659d74fc842b57@mail.gmail.com>
	<47D583FE.8020800@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <4145b6790803110412o13b8b92ei8eae05fe8e113f02@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 1:54 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis3 at hotpop.com> wrote:
>  You write a shell script to do some task...
>
>  And then someone else writes a shell-script, which has a giant
>  for loop and calls your script in their script....
>
>  It's ridiculous cpu cycle waste...

Figured I'd try to replicate the authors work

$ yes and | head -20000000 > tmp/a/longfile.txt

$ time grep -c and tmp/a/longfile.txt
20000000

real    0m2.142s
user    0m1.340s
sys     0m0.036s

$ time cat tmp/a/longfile.txt | grep -c and
20000000

real    0m1.383s
user    0m1.344s
sys     0m0.108s

$ yes and | head -2 > tmp/a/longfile.txt

$ time grep -c and tmp/a/longfile.txt
2

real    0m0.004s
user    0m0.004s
sys     0m0.000s

$ time cat tmp/a/longfile.txt | grep -c and
2

real    0m0.005s
user    0m0.008s
sys     0m0.000s

$ yes and | head -200000000 > tmp/a/longfile.txt

$ time grep -c and tmp/a/longfile.txt
200000000

real    0m24.169s
user    0m13.549s
sys     0m0.576s

$ time cat tmp/a/longfile.txt | grep -c and
200000000

real    0m20.297s
user    0m12.769s
sys     0m1.352s

20 million records, about 2 seconds.
2 records, about 5 milliseconds
200 million records, 25 seconds.

Most of my work is well under 200 million records.

BTW, this is my laptop running Ubuntu 7.10 with dual 2GHz cpus and 1
GB RAM.  Not a screamer by any stretch.

Regards,
- Robert


From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Tue Mar 11 08:37:00 2008
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Robert Meier)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 08:37:00 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <4145b6790803110412o13b8b92ei8eae05fe8e113f02@mail.gmail.com>
	(robert.citek@gmail.com)
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com> <47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>
	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>
	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>
	<4145b6790803100151o14596023v46659d74fc842b57@mail.gmail.com>
	<47D583FE.8020800@hotpop.com>
	<4145b6790803110412o13b8b92ei8eae05fe8e113f02@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080311123700.4FDBA127D3C@starfox.local>

Robert,

Good experiment.
> [
> $ yes and | head -$COUNT > tmp/a/longfile.txt
> ]

> [
> COUNT             2          20M       200M
>                            
> real(cat)         0m0.005s  -0m1.383s  -0m20.297s
> real(inline)     -0m0.004s   0m2.142s   0m24.169s

> user(cat)         0m0.008s   0m1.344s  -0m12.769s
> user(inline)     -0m0.004s  -0m1.340s   0m13.549s

> sys(cat)          0m0.000s   0m0.108s   0m1.352s
> sys(inline)       0m0.000s  -0m0.036s  -0m0.576s
> ...
> laptop running Ubuntu 7.10 with dual 2GHz cpus and 1GB RAM ...
> ]

Duplicated on my Dell Latitude, SuSE-10.1, single PentiumIII 850MHz, 256M RAM.

for COUNT in 2 20000000 200000000
do
  yes and | head -$COUNT > /local/tmp/a/longfile.txt
  time -p cat /local/tmp/a/longfile.txt | grep -c and
  time -p grep -c and /local/tmp/a/longfile.txt
  time -p < /local/tmp/a/longfile.txt grep -c and
done
2
real 0.00
user 0.00
sys 0.00
2
real 0.00
user 0.00
sys 0.00
2
real 0.00
user 0.00
sys 0.00
20000000
real 7.39
user 6.58
sys 0.43
20000000
real 6.71
user 6.41
sys 0.21
20000000
real 7.17
user 6.47
sys 0.30
200000000
real 76.21
user 64.78
sys 4.78
200000000
real 72.08
user 64.75
sys 2.67
200000000
real 68.81
user 64.16
sys 2.66

COUNT             2          20M       200M
                           
real(cat)         0.00       7.39      76.21
real(inline)      0.00      -6.71      72.08
real(redirect)    0.00       7.17     -68.81

user(cat)         0.00       6.58      64.78
user(inline)      0.00      -6.41      64.75
user(redirect)    0.00       6.47     -64.16

sys(cat)          0.00       0.43       4.78
sys(inline)       0.00      -0.21       2.67
sys(redirect)     0.00       0.30      -2.66

Mileage varies,
but in these two experiments,
not by more than 10%(of real) real, 3%(of real) user, 3%(of real) sys

Reporting,
-- 
Bob

  "The liberties of our country are worth defending at all hazards. We have
   received them from our worthy ancestors; they purchased them for us with
   toil, treasure and blood. It will bring an everlasting infamy on the
   present generation, enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them to be
   wrested from us...or be cheated out of them by the artifices of false and
   designing men."
	     -- Samuel Adams, 1771.



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Tue Mar 11 09:58:50 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 09:58:50 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Well, shucks - motherboard/CPU advice needed
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E03716549E@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

My main linux box is officially toast. Probably literally, something critical
overheated in there, it seems. It won't boot anymore, with two cpus or either
CPU alone. At this point it wouldn't be cost-effective to replace either the
motherboard or the CPUs by themselves... and if I'm replacing both I might as
well go whole hog and replace the guts with something new.

 Here's the problem. I have to do this as cheaply as feasible, and for that I
want to re-use my existing hardware insofar as possible. Unfortunately, this
puts certain constraints on what I can pick, since it's slightly older tech.

 The main issue is that it's PATA - in other words, ribbon cable IDE for the
drives. I have two 120GB hard drives, a DVD-ROM drive, and a DVD-RW drive. I
could lose the extra DVD drive, but I've gotta have the disks and the burner.
It's got an AGP video card, but any onboard Nvidia chipset these days would be
better than the card I have, so I'm not *too* worried about that.

 I need firewire to pull data off our camcorder, either built onto the
motherboard or else a PCI slot so I can put in my existing firewire card. I
also have a SoundBlaster Live that I want to keep using - it's pretty good at
sound capture and I doubt if onboard sound would do as well.

 To sum up:

 Gotta have:
   - at least one parallel ATA hookup, ideally two
   - firewire or PCI slot
   - AGP slot or onboard NVIDIA graphics

 Strongly desired:
   - SBLive audio, either built-in or another PCI slot
   - PCI Express slot for upgradable video later

 I'd like a dual-core or better CPU, and if I could re-use the RAM I have
that'd be nice. (I think it's PC2100 ECC RAM.) But RAM's pretty cheap now,
I've heard.

 Anyway, any advice? Places to look, exceptional deals right now, etc?

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                              (313) 227-2317

 "There is a fine line between being on to something and on something."
                          -Friar Broccoli
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From xstep64 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 11 11:13:44 2008
From: xstep64 at gmail.com (Mike)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 11:13:44 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Linux Foundation
Message-ID: <1205248424.7390.6.camel@xstep-desktop>

The Linux Foundation is looking for a new community manager.  I would
love that position but I really don't think anyone outside of the
working groups have a chance.  Wouldn't the job be offered to someone
within the foundation?

I guess anyone of us could send a resume and cross some fingers?



From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 11 11:16:30 2008
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 11:16:30 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Well, shucks - motherboard/CPU advice needed
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E03716549E@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E03716549E@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380803110816u5068087mec9340400e6cfd5a@mail.gmail.com>

--- Raymond Ingles wrote:

> My main linux box is officially toast.
>   The main issue is that it's PATA - in other words, ribbon cable IDE for the
>  drives. I have two 120GB hard drives, a DVD-ROM drive, and a DVD-RW drive. I
>  could lose the extra DVD drive, but I've gotta have the disks and the burner.
>  It's got an AGP video card, but any onboard Nvidia chipset these days would be
>  better than the card I have, so I'm not *too* worried about that.
>
>   I need firewire to pull data off our camcorder, either built onto the
>  motherboard or else a PCI slot so I can put in my existing firewire card. I
>  also have a SoundBlaster Live that I want to keep using - it's pretty good at
>  sound capture and I doubt if onboard sound would do as well.
>   Gotta have:
>    - at least one parallel ATA hookup, ideally two
>    - FireWire or PCI slot
>    - AGP slot or on-board nVidia graphics
>
>   Strongly desired:
>    - SBLive audio, either built-in or another PCI slot
>    - PCI Express slot for upgradeable video later.

You're not going to be able to re-use your DDR RAM -- new MBs use DDR2
-- but in all other respects, you should be OK.  Many current MBs have
a mix of PCI and PCI Express slots, as well as two ATA headers to go
along with the SATA interface.

There are a variety of MBs available at Micro Center that should fill
your needs.  Something like this:
<http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0259059>

You could put in a SATA-in/ATA-out adapter on the burner to gain that
extra interface free.  I, too, like having both a DVD-ROM and a DVD
burner in my systems:
<http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0266720>

~~ Mikey


From tesral at comcast.net  Tue Mar 11 11:18:41 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 11:18:41 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Well, shucks - motherboard/CPU advice needed
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E03716549E@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E03716549E@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <47D6A2D1.9020105@comcast.net>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>  Gotta have:
>    - at least one parallel ATA hookup, ideally two
>    - firewire or PCI slot
>    - AGP slot or onboard NVIDIA graphics
>
>  Strongly desired:
>    - SBLive audio, either built-in or another PCI slot
>    - PCI Express slot for upgradable video later
>   
Ray if you need it I have an extra PCI ATA 133 card.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From mathew.enders at prodigy.net  Tue Mar 11 11:47:44 2008
From: mathew.enders at prodigy.net (Mathew Enders)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 11:47:44 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <4145b6790803110412o13b8b92ei8eae05fe8e113f02@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com> <47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>
	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>
	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>
	<4145b6790803100151o14596023v46659d74fc842b57@mail.gmail.com>
	<47D583FE.8020800@hotpop.com>
	<4145b6790803110412o13b8b92ei8eae05fe8e113f02@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1205250464.5851.17.camel@laptop01>

On Tue, 2008-03-11 at 06:12 -0500, Robert Citek wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 1:54 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis3 at hotpop.com> wrote:
> >  <SNIP>
> 
> BTW, this is my laptop running Ubuntu 7.10 with dual 2GHz cpus and 1
> GB RAM.  Not a screamer by any stretch.

My laptop is a 500Mhz Celeron with 512MB of ram so screamer would be a
relative term



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Tue Mar 11 13:01:36 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 13:01:36 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Well, shucks - motherboard/CPU advice needed
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380803110816u5068087mec9340400e6cfd5a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E03716549F@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Michael Rudas

> There are a variety of MBs available at Micro Center that should fill
> your needs.  Something like this:
> <http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0259059>

 That looks pretty reasonable indeed, though there's one sticking point:

> You could put in a SATA-in/ATA-out adapter on the burner to gain that extra
> interface free.  I, too, like having both a DVD-ROM and a DVD burner in my systems:
> <http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0266720>

 Just so I'm clear: would that adapter allow me to hook up two drives to one
SATA plug? I mean, technically I have four drives, two HDs and two DVD drives.
The one onboard IDE header will support two of those drives.

 Would that adapter allow me to hook up two more drives, or do I need
one adapter per drive? As I said, I can live without the other DVD drive,
but it'd be nice to have... if not, I could take Garry up on his offer of a
PCI IDE controller, but I'd have to give up the SBLive (only two PCI slots
on that board).

 If I got that MB, I'd probably pair it with these:
 http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0256275
 http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0253284

 CPU is midrange, but dual-core (I'd miss SMP if I didn't have it :-> ) and
the memory is maxed out (I wasn't feeling cramped in 1GB, really). Should be
adequate for my needs for some time to come.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                              (313) 227-2317

 "One man's 'magic' is another man's 'engineering'. 'Supernatural' is a
                    null word." - Robert Heinlein
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Tue Mar 11 13:12:30 2008
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 12:12:30 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <1205250464.5851.17.camel@laptop01>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com> <47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>
	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>
	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>
	<4145b6790803100151o14596023v46659d74fc842b57@mail.gmail.com>
	<47D583FE.8020800@hotpop.com>
	<4145b6790803110412o13b8b92ei8eae05fe8e113f02@mail.gmail.com>
	<1205250464.5851.17.camel@laptop01>
Message-ID: <4145b6790803111012q24a8bf6bxfbf9e223b92cf15@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 10:47 AM, Mathew Enders
<mathew.enders at prodigy.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 2008-03-11 at 06:12 -0500, Robert Citek wrote:
>  > BTW, this is my laptop running Ubuntu 7.10 with dual 2GHz cpus and 1
>  > GB RAM.  Not a screamer by any stretch.
>
>  My laptop is a 500Mhz Celeron with 512MB of ram so screamer would be a
>  relative term

Good point.  So I tried it on a different machine.

Hardware:

400 MHz Celeron
64 MB RAM
3 GB HDD

Script, slightly modified from Robert (couldn't do the 200MM because I
didn't have enough free disk space):

(
mkdir -p tmp/a/
tmpfile=tmp/a/longfile.txt
for COUNT in 2 20000000; do
  yes and | head -$COUNT > $tmpfile
  time -p grep -c and $tmpfile
  time -p < $tmpfile grep -c and
  time -p cat $tmpfile | grep -c and
done \
>& output.txt
)

Results:

2
real 0.05
user 0.02
sys 0.00
2
real 0.03
user 0.02
sys 0.00
2
real 0.06
user 0.04
sys 0.02
20000000
real 21.31
user 13.60
sys 0.78
20000000
real 19.71
user 13.40
sys 0.90
20000000
real 19.14
user 13.96
sys 1.67

Conclusion:

1) For the 95% of the time where cat+pipe is inefficient, it doesn't
matter.  So, don't worry about it.

2) Do the experiment yourself to verify the data.  Don't believe
everything you read on the internet.

3) 87.4% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

Regards,
- Robert


From micorral at comcast.net  Tue Mar 11 14:44:59 2008
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 14:44:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <4145b6790803111012q24a8bf6bxfbf9e223b92cf15@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com> <47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>
	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>
	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>
	<4145b6790803100151o14596023v46659d74fc842b57@mail.gmail.com>
	<47D583FE.8020800@hotpop.com>
	<4145b6790803110412o13b8b92ei8eae05fe8e113f02@mail.gmail.com>
	<1205250464.5851.17.camel@laptop01>
	<4145b6790803111012q24a8bf6bxfbf9e223b92cf15@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.1.00.0803111424220.2247@banana.sluggo.net>

2008-03-11, Monsieur Robert Citek a ecrit:
> (
> mkdir -p tmp/a/
> tmpfile=tmp/a/longfile.txt
> for COUNT in 2 20000000; do
>  yes and | head -$COUNT > $tmpfile
>  time -p grep -c and $tmpfile
>  time -p < $tmpfile grep -c and
>  time -p cat $tmpfile | grep -c and
> done \
>> & output.txt
> )

Here are my results (this is on an AMD X2 3700+ 2.2GHz w/1GB RAM, in
Fedora 7 with a 2.6.24.2 kernel):

$ yes and | head -20000000 > tmp/a/longfile.txt

$ time grep -c and tmp/a/longfile.txt
20000000

real    0m1.848s
user    0m1.736s
sys     0m0.053s

$ time cat tmp/a/longfile.txt | grep -c and
20000000

real    0m1.977s
user    0m1.802s
sys     0m0.104s

So the one grep beats the cat+pipe to grep.
Thank you for helping me to make my point, I appreciate it. :)

> 1) For the 95% of the time where cat+pipe is inefficient, it doesn't
> matter.  So, don't worry about it.

I recall saying that it was *unnecessary* 95% of the time, but who
said that it was *inefficient* 95% of the time? There's a difference,
you know. ;)

> 2) Do the experiment yourself to verify the data.  Don't believe
> everything you read on the internet.

Absolutely, couldn't agree more.

> 3) 87.4% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

I'd agree with that about 79.6% of the time.

Out of curioisty, I appended the string "lametest" twice to that
longfile.txt file, then grepped for "me" both ways:

$ time grep -c me tmp/a/longfile.txt
2

real    0m0.243s
user    0m0.180s
sys     0m0.045s

$ time cat tmp/a/longfile.txt | grep -c me
2

real    0m0.316s
user    0m0.196s
sys     0m0.102s

Single grep wins again.

Of course, real-world tests would be preferable.

Michael


From driveray at ameritech.net  Tue Mar 11 16:47:26 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 16:47:26 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Linux Foundation
In-Reply-To: <1205248424.7390.6.camel@xstep-desktop>
References: <1205248424.7390.6.camel@xstep-desktop>
Message-ID: <47D6EFDE.6020501@ameritech.net>

Mike wrote:
> The Linux Foundation is looking for a new community manager.  I would
> love that position but I really don't think anyone outside of the
> working groups have a chance.  Wouldn't the job be offered to someone
> within the foundation?
> 
> I guess anyone of us could send a resume and cross some fingers?


Can you post a link to an announcement of this opening?



From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Tue Mar 11 17:08:36 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 17:08:36 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <4145b6790803110412o13b8b92ei8eae05fe8e113f02@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com>
	<47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>	<4145b6790803100151o14596023v46659d74fc842b57@mail.gmail.com>	<47D583FE.8020800@hotpop.com>
	<4145b6790803110412o13b8b92ei8eae05fe8e113f02@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47D6F4D4.6060102@hotpop.com>

Robert Citek wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 1:54 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis3 at hotpop.com> wrote:
>>  You write a shell script to do some task...
>>
>>  And then someone else writes a shell-script, which has a giant
>>  for loop and calls your script in their script....
>>
>>  It's ridiculous cpu cycle waste...
> 
> Figured I'd try to replicate the authors work
> 
> $ yes and | head -20000000 > tmp/a/longfile.txt
> 
> $ time grep -c and tmp/a/longfile.txt
> 20000000
> 
> real    0m2.142s
> user    0m1.340s
> sys     0m0.036s
> 
> $ time cat tmp/a/longfile.txt | grep -c and
> 20000000
> 
> real    0m1.383s
> user    0m1.344s
> sys     0m0.108s
> 

System time went from 0.036s to 0.108s.
That's a factor of 3.



From jcbender at bendorius.com  Tue Mar 11 17:17:56 2008
From: jcbender at bendorius.com (Joseph C. Bender)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 17:17:56 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Well, shucks - motherboard/CPU advice needed
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E03716549F@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E03716549F@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <47D6F704.3070307@bendorius.com>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>> From: Michael Rudas
> 

>  Just so I'm clear: would that adapter allow me to hook up two drives to one
> SATA plug? I mean, technically I have four drives, two HDs and two DVD drives.
> The one onboard IDE header will support two of those drives.
> 
	Not generally.  Usually it's one converter, one drive.

	My thought is that if you're really wanting to keep those two disks 
around, put the SATA-IDE converters on the hard disks and run the DVD 
drives master/slave on the IDE channel.

	But if you can cough up an extra $120 or so, just get a pair of 160GB 
SATA drives and be done with it.  If you're not getting a motherboard 
these days that doesn't have at least 4 SATA ports on it, you're wasting 
your money.


From xstep64 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 11 17:32:56 2008
From: xstep64 at gmail.com (Mike)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 17:32:56 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Linux Foundation/link
In-Reply-To: <47D6EFDE.6020501@ameritech.net>
References: <1205248424.7390.6.camel@xstep-desktop>
	<47D6EFDE.6020501@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <1205271176.7390.10.camel@xstep-desktop>

http://www.linux-foundation.org/en/Jobs#Linux_Foundation_Community_Manager

On Tue, 2008-03-11 at 16:47 -0400, Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Mike wrote:
> > The Linux Foundation is looking for a new community manager.  I would
> > love that position but I really don't think anyone outside of the
> > working groups have a chance.  Wouldn't the job be offered to someone
> > within the foundation?
> > 
> > I guess anyone of us could send a resume and cross some fingers?
> 
> 
> Can you post a link to an announcement of this opening?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Tue Mar 11 00:58:04 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 00:58:04 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <178268.81497.qm@web38015.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <178268.81497.qm@web38015.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <47D6115C.8000204@hotpop.com>

Scott Webster Wood wrote:
> And learning to use awk/sed well is silly when there's perl.
> 

That depends.

akulkis at kulkix:~> ls -al /usr/bin/perl /bin/{gawk,sed}
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root  242592 2006-05-02 04:19 /bin/gawk
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root   40932 2006-04-22 21:49 /bin/sed
-rwxr-xr-x 3 root root 1160484 2006-04-22 20:38 /usr/bin/perl

George Goble used to refer to people who had really
long .cshrc, .login, or .profile files as users with
their own /vm{$USERNAME}.

(where {$USERNAME} is substituted appropriately).

On a relatively fast machine, I had a 30 line .cshrc,
which he always referred to as /vmkulkis.



[For those who don't get it... "vm" is the traditional
prefix for all Unix kernels which support virtual memory...
this goes back to at least /vmunix on 4.1 BSD, and probably
even earlier (since Unix was ported to the IBM 370 before
it as ported to the VAX-11].

> SW
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis3 at hotpop.com>
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> 
> And there's not always an advantage to writing in C.
> For one, you have to debug whatever you're doing, whereas
> the building blocks of a shell-script consist of
> well-debugged code.
> 
> Replicating an AWK or SED expression in C is not always
> a trivial matter.
> 





From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Tue Mar 11 17:34:06 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 17:34:06 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Well, shucks - motherboard/CPU advice needed
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E03716549E@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E03716549E@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <47D6FACE.7080506@hotpop.com>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
> My main linux box is officially toast. Probably literally,
 > something critical overheated in there, it seems. It won't
 > boot anymore, with two cpus or either CPU alone. At this
 > point it wouldn't be cost-effective to replace either the
> motherboard or the CPUs by themselves... and if I'm replacing
 > both I might as well go whole hog and replace the guts with
 > something new.

As long as you're buying new hardware... throw in a cheap
graphics card and try booting it again.  I've used this method
twice to revive what *seemed* to be dead MB/CPU.

For some strange reason, a dead graphics card can prevent
a system from booting.

> 
>  Here's the problem. I have to do this as cheaply as feasible,
 > and for that I want to re-use my existing hardware insofar as
 > possible. Unfortunately, this puts certain constraints on what
 > I can pick, since it's slightly older tech.
> 
>  The main issue is that it's PATA - in other words, ribbon
 > cable IDE for the drives. I have two 120GB hard drives, a
 > DVD-ROM drive, and a DVD-RW drive. I could lose the extra
 > DVD drive, but I've gotta have the disks and the burner.
 >
> It's got an AGP video card, but any onboard Nvidia chipset
 > these days would be better than the card I have, so I'm not
 > *too* worried about that.

Most modern motherboards will have only one IDE connecter.
However, Microcenter carries PATA/SATA converters, such as
these:

Attach a PATA drive to a SATA cable:
http://www.724deal.com/18-inch-ide-to-ata-interface-converter-card-727.html

Attach a SATA drive to a PATA cable:
http://www.724deal.com/parallel-pata-to-serial-sata-hard-disk-converter-643.html

> 
>  I need firewire to pull data off our camcorder, either
 > built onto the motherboard or else a PCI slot so I can put
 > in my existing firewire card. I also have a SoundBlaster
 > Live that I want to keep using - it's pretty good at sound
 > capture and I doubt if onboard sound would do as well.
> 
>  To sum up:
> 
>  Gotta have:
>    - at least one parallel ATA hookup, ideally two

Or some $8 SATA/PATA converters.

>    - firewire or PCI slot
>    - AGP slot or onboard NVIDIA graphics

AGP slots are very rare on modern motherboards.
You're going to be seeing PCI-E x16

> 
>  Strongly desired:
>    - SBLive audio, either built-in or another PCI slot
>    - PCI Express slot for upgradable video later
> 
>  I'd like a dual-core or better CPU, and if I could re-use

Dual core Athlons are reasonably priced. (AM2 slot)
If you get a motherboard labelled AM2+, you can later
upgrade to a quad-core Phenom when the prices drop to
reasonable levels.


 > the RAM I have that'd be nice. (I think it's PC2100 ECC RAM.)
 > But RAM's pretty cheap now, I've heard.

DDR2 is Ridiculously cheap -- like $30/GB

> 
>  Anyway, any advice? Places to look, exceptional deals right now, etc?
> 

Microcenter always has something on sale, and I believe they still
have a sale going on some MB's.

Also, be prepared to upgrade your CPU fan to something costing
$30 or more, and or getting out a Dremel tool with some cut-off
wheels to put another fan or two blowing into the case.

I recently performed this operation on a tower I'd like to
keep instead of spending another $200 or so.  Now I have a
nice 120mm fan blowing right across all my 3.2 hard drive bays.




From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Tue Mar 11 00:46:37 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 00:46:37 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <47D5D8C0.2060407@gmail.com>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com>	<47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>	<47D4E5F4.8090409@hotpop.com>
	<47D5D8C0.2060407@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47D60EAD.8070304@hotpop.com>

Clinton V. Weiss wrote:
> Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>> Michael Corral wrote:
>>   
>>> 2008-03-10, Monsieur Robert Citek a ecrit:
>>>     
>>>> contrast the output of these commands:
>>>>
>>>> $ cat /etc/passwd /etc/group | grep root
>>>> $ grep root /etc/passwd /etc/group
>>>>       
>>> grep -h root /etc/passwd /etc/group
>>>
>>> That will give the same output as the cat+pipe version.
>>> So calling cat is unnecessary in this example, since the one grep
>>> command does the same as two commands and a pipe.
>>>
>>> In my experience I've found that calling cat is unnecessary about 95%
>>> of the time.
>>>
>>>     
>> The only times cat is necessary...
>>
>> 1: you want the to use one of the flags of cat, such as:
>>     cat -n file1 | cmd
>>     to prepend each line with a line number.
>>
>> 2: Multiple files to be processed as a single input stream.
>>
>>     cat file1 file2 [file3...] | cmd
> 
> 3. I want to quickly read the contents of the file.
> 
> Clinton =)

That would be true in 1983.
However, since then has come the invention
of both more....and less, too!

more file
or  cmd | more


less file
or  cmd | less]


(Less allows you to page backwards through piped input).




From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Tue Mar 11 18:05:12 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 18:05:12 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Well, shucks - motherboard/CPU advice needed
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E03716549F@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E03716549F@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <47D70218.6030609@hotpop.com>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>> From: Michael Rudas
> 
>> There are a variety of MBs available at Micro Center that should fill
>> your needs.  Something like this:
>> <http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0259059>
> 
>  That looks pretty reasonable indeed, though there's one sticking point:
> 
>> You could put in a SATA-in/ATA-out adapter on the burner to gain that extra
>> interface free.  I, too, like having both a DVD-ROM and a DVD burner in my systems:
>> <http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0266720>
> 
>  Just so I'm clear: would that adapter allow me to hook up two drives to one
> SATA plug?

1 SATA plug controls one SATA drive.
Typically, a modern SATA motherboard has 4 or 6 SATA plugs.

 > I mean, technically I have four drives, two HDs and two DVD drives.
> The one onboard IDE header will support two of those drives.

No, these adapter connect directly to the PATA hard drive, with
a SATA plug on the outboard side.
You would probably need 2 of them, because most decent MB's have
one IDE cable connector. (I noticed that the MB's with two IDE
connectors tend to be getting quite old in design...)

> 
>  Would that adapter allow me to hook up two more drives, or do I need
> one adapter per drive?

One adapter per drive.

 > As I said, I can live without the other DVD drive,
> but it'd be nice to have... if not, I could take Garry up on his offer of a
> PCI IDE controller, but I'd have to give up the SBLive (only two PCI slots
> on that board).
> 
>  If I got that MB, I'd probably pair it with these:
>  http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0256275
>  http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0253284
> 
>  CPU is midrange, but dual-core (I'd miss SMP if I didn't have it :-> ) and
> the memory is maxed out (I wasn't feeling cramped in 1GB, really). Should be
> adequate for my needs for some time to come.

I recently purchased this, with the intention of it having a 5 year 
lifespan (I can upgrade to Phenom, and it has a 16 GB memory capacity):

http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0278565

http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0278566



Both have
Socket AM2+ (Sempron/Athlon 65/Athlon 64x2/Athlon 64 FX/PHENOM FX)
Mem capacity:		16 GB
Sound:		Realtek ALC889A High Definition CODEC Audio Chipset
		with connectors to support stereo and SPDIFF for 7.1
Ethernet:		10/100/1000
Graphics slots:		(2) PCI-express 2.0 x16 with ATI Crossfire
PCI-express x1:		3 slots
PCI:			(2) 32-bit PCI bus mastering slots.		Other connectors:	More 
than you could possibly want,
			with ample USB 2.0
Other Internal connectors: More internal headrs than I know
			what to do with, with every interface I've
			heard of in the last 10 years present
			(except SCSI).

Primary differences:
				SATA	ATA Crossfire
                                 plugs	support
GA-MA790FX-DS5 AM2+	$209     6     	16x
GA-MA790X-DS4 AM2+	$109     4	8x



I opted for the DS5 (more disk drive connectors is always good!)

The price is probably higher than what you're looking for,
but in return, you've got a board which shouldn't become
obsolescent for quite some time.

This is the first time I've purchased a motherboard costing
more than $100... and frankly, it's because I look at it
this way... I could spend $100 less, but then in 3 years,
when the price of Quad-cores drop, I would have to go out
and buy ANOTHER motherboard, go through all the hassle
of swapping motherboards again...blah blah blah.
So I spent a few extra dollars now, so that when the price
of the Phenom drops, I can just pop off the fan, swap the
CPU, replace the fan, and re-boot.




From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Tue Mar 11 18:07:49 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 18:07:49 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Linux Foundation
In-Reply-To: <1205248424.7390.6.camel@xstep-desktop>
References: <1205248424.7390.6.camel@xstep-desktop>
Message-ID: <47D702B5.5060109@hotpop.com>

Mike wrote:
> The Linux Foundation is looking for a new community manager.  I would
> love that position but I really don't think anyone outside of the
> working groups have a chance.  Wouldn't the job be offered to someone
> within the foundation?

If they've made it public outside the foundation, then the odds
are that they aren't restricting their search to people within
the foundation.

> 
> I guess anyone of us could send a resume and cross some fingers?

Why not?

What are they gonna do -- put an IED in your driveway for
sending in a resume?




From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Tue Mar 11 21:27:18 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 21:27:18 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <47D6F4D4.6060102@hotpop.com>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com>	<47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>	<4145b6790803100151o14596023v46659d74fc842b57@mail.gmail.com>	<47D583FE.8020800@hotpop.com>	<4145b6790803110412o13b8b92ei8eae05fe8e113f02@mail.gmail.com>
	<47D6F4D4.6060102@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <47D73176.60408@hotpop.com>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> Robert Citek wrote:
>> On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 1:54 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis3 at hotpop.com> wrote:
>>>  You write a shell script to do some task...
>>>
>>>  And then someone else writes a shell-script, which has a giant
>>>  for loop and calls your script in their script....
>>>
>>>  It's ridiculous cpu cycle waste...
>> Figured I'd try to replicate the authors work
>>
>> $ yes and | head -20000000 > tmp/a/longfile.txt
>>
>> $ time grep -c and tmp/a/longfile.txt
>> 20000000
>>
>> real    0m2.142s
>> user    0m1.340s
>> sys     0m0.036s
>>
>> $ time cat tmp/a/longfile.txt | grep -c and
>> 20000000
>>
>> real    0m1.383s
>> user    0m1.344s
>> sys     0m0.108s
>>
> 
> System time went from 0.036s to 0.108s.
> That's a factor of 3.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_strange_units_of_measurement#Light-nanosecond




From driveray at ameritech.net  Wed Mar 12 00:06:04 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 00:06:04 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <47D60EAD.8070304@hotpop.com>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com>	<47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>	<47D4E5F4.8090409@hotpop.com>	<47D5D8C0.2060407@gmail.com>
	<47D60EAD.8070304@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <47D756AC.1080504@ameritech.net>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> Clinton V. Weiss wrote:
>
>> 3. I want to quickly read the contents of the file.
>>
>> Clinton =)
> 
> That would be true in 1983.
> However, since then has come the invention
> of both more....and less, too!
> 
> more file
> or  cmd | more
> 
> 
> less file
> or  cmd | less]
> 
> 
> (Less allows you to page backwards through piped input).

How ever, a pager such as less requires you to exit before you can
continue to work, and is not suitable for piping. I use both, my choice
depending on the context, expected size of out put, and ultimate intention.

For instance, if I'm working in a graphical console with a large scroll
back buffer I might just cat a file, and scroll back and forth with my
mouse, perhaps selecting parts of the text for some copy/paste
operation. Also, the "cat file | " syntax might be less direct than the
redirect syntax, but I'm inclined to use "cat file" to see the content
of a file, and then "<Up Arrow> | ..." to avoid retyping a (possibly
long) file descriptor.

Both less and cat can be useful tools. I would give some thought to
efficiency in writing a script, but at the command line I would opt for
less typing.




From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Wed Mar 12 00:32:45 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 00:32:45 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <47D756AC.1080504@ameritech.net>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com>	<47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>	<47D4E5F4.8090409@hotpop.com>	<47D5D8C0.2060407@gmail.com>	<47D60EAD.8070304@hotpop.com>
	<47D756AC.1080504@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <47D75CED.1000701@hotpop.com>

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>> Clinton V. Weiss wrote:
>>
>>> 3. I want to quickly read the contents of the file.
>>>
>>> Clinton =)
>> That would be true in 1983.
>> However, since then has come the invention
>> of both more....and less, too!
>>
>> more file
>> or  cmd | more
>>
>>
>> less file
>> or  cmd | less]
>>
>>
>> (Less allows you to page backwards through piped input).
> 
> How ever, a pager such as less requires you to exit before you can
> continue to work, and is not suitable for piping. I use both, my choice
> depending on the context, expected size of out put, and ultimate intention.
> 

Yes.. less erases it's display from the screen before exiting,
which can be annoying when trying to refer to a man page and
build a command line... I always end up opening a second
tty window.

> For instance, if I'm working in a graphical console with a large scroll
> back buffer I might just cat a file, and scroll back and forth with my
> mouse, perhaps selecting parts of the text for some copy/paste
> operation. Also, the "cat file | " syntax might be less direct than the
> redirect syntax, but I'm inclined to use "cat file" to see the content
> of a file, and then "<Up Arrow> | ..." to avoid retyping a (possibly
> long) file descriptor.
> 
> Both less and cat can be useful tools. I would give some thought to
> efficiency in writing a script, but at the command line I would opt for
> less typing.

Ever notice that after thousands of repetitions, some
commands just seem to get typed out automatically without
even thinking about it?

For example, I'm in such a habit from years of using "more"
that if I don't pause momentarily to type "less"... I won't.

Then there's the going back and forth between BSD and SysV
style ps...

in college, I used
ps guax

most of the business world systems use System V ps...
ps -efl

Fortunately, Linux (gnu) ps recognizes both ... if
you use a -flags style, it assumes SystemV flags...
if you don't use a -, then it assumes BSD flags.






From driveray at ameritech.net  Wed Mar 12 01:01:12 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 01:01:12 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <47D75CED.1000701@hotpop.com>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com>	<47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>	<47D4E5F4.8090409@hotpop.com>	<47D5D8C0.2060407@gmail.com>	<47D60EAD.8070304@hotpop.com>	<47D756AC.1080504@ameritech.net>
	<47D75CED.1000701@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <47D76398.7080105@ameritech.net>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
>>
>> How ever, a pager such as less requires you to exit before you can
>> continue to work, and is not suitable for piping. I use both, my choice
>> depending on the context, expected size of out put, and ultimate intention.
> 
> Yes.. less erases it's display from the screen before exiting,
> which can be annoying when trying to refer to a man page and
> build a command line

Some displays yes, some no. This depends on your terminal settings. It
can be over ridden with "less -X" at the command line. For man pages,
you can use "man -P less\ -X command" as desired, or put "alias man='man
-P less\ -X' " somewhere in your startup scripts.


>>... I always end up opening a second tty window.

That work too.


> Ever notice that after thousands of repetitions, some
> commands just seem to get typed out automatically without
> even thinking about it?

Along with "less -X" there's "less -S" which suppresses line folding.
Makes log files with long lines much more readable.

> For example, I'm in such a habit from years of using "more"
> that if I don't pause momentarily to type "less"... I won't.

You could set an alias for this too.



From driveray at ameritech.net  Wed Mar 12 01:13:57 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 01:13:57 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com> <47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>
	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>
Message-ID: <47D76695.609@ameritech.net>

Robert Meier wrote:
> Ray, Aaron,
> 
>>  ~ $ echo "${VAR}a"
>>  tmp/*a
>>  ~ $ echo ${VAR}a
>>  tmp/a
>>
>> This all works the same for me, except that last one. On my system the
>> last two do the same thing:
>>
>>  pts/1 $ echo "{$VAR}a"
>>  {tmp/*}a
>>  pts/1 $ echo {$VAR}a
>>  {tmp/*}a
>>  pts/1 $
> 
>> I don't know if the author used a different shell, or has different
>> globbing options set, but I don't see just how that last one is even
>> supposed to work.
> 
> The difference is the subtle difference between {$ and ${ .
> The ${...} "quotes" the name inside which may have special variables, spaces,

As they say say in Springfield "Duoh!" It was right there, and I didn't
see it.


> {$ is treated as two separate tokens.
> The { is just a character prepended to the word, and $... evaluates
> the token that follows, which ends at the next space or special character.
> 
>   {$VAR}a is tokenized as '{'"$VAR"'}''a' .
>   ${VAR}a is tokenized as "${VAR}"'a'

Yes, thanks for clarifying.

>>> This article seems worth the read, but seems to need a little work.
> 
>> Yeah, it's not quite as clear as it should be....
> 
> I posted some suggestions to IBM.
> I included also the conflict between xargs (hint 8)
> which splits filenames with spaces and quoting (hint 4)
> which maintains filenames.

I'll keep an eye out for those. I haven't gotten that far yet, this
article is fairly challenging reading for me.

> I suggested using find ... | while read f; do ... "$f" ...; done
> as more portable, flexible, and less error prone.
> 
> Thanks for the pointer,




From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Wed Mar 12 02:12:42 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 02:12:42 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <47D76398.7080105@ameritech.net>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com>	<47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>	<47D4E5F4.8090409@hotpop.com>	<47D5D8C0.2060407@gmail.com>	<47D60EAD.8070304@hotpop.com>	<47D756AC.1080504@ameritech.net>	<47D75CED.1000701@hotpop.com>
	<47D76398.7080105@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <47D7745A.4070707@hotpop.com>

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>> Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
>>> How ever, a pager such as less requires you to exit before you can
>>> continue to work, and is not suitable for piping. I use both, my choice
>>> depending on the context, expected size of out put, and ultimate intention.
>> Yes.. less erases it's display from the screen before exiting,
>> which can be annoying when trying to refer to a man page and
>> build a command line
> 
> Some displays yes, some no. This depends on your terminal settings. It
> can be over ridden with "less -X" at the command line. For man pages,
> you can use "man -P less\ -X command" as desired, or put "alias man='man
> -P less\ -X' " somewhere in your startup scripts.
> 
> 
>>> ... I always end up opening a second tty window.
> 
> That work too.
> 
> 
>> Ever notice that after thousands of repetitions, some
>> commands just seem to get typed out automatically without
>> even thinking about it?
> 
> Along with "less -X" there's "less -S" which suppresses line folding.
> Makes log files with long lines much more readable.
> 
>> For example, I'm in such a habit from years of using "more"
>> that if I don't pause momentarily to type "less"... I won't.
> 
> You could set an alias for this too.

I used to use lots and lots of aliases when I was in college.

Then I found that in the commercial world, it can become
a pain in the neck...as you get used to having your
aliases...and then when you're working in some other
environment... poof... now you're typing things that
don't work the way you want them to (if at all)

but your man alias is one worth using...




From driveray at ameritech.net  Wed Mar 12 03:47:42 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 03:47:42 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <47D7745A.4070707@hotpop.com>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com>	<47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>	<47D4E5F4.8090409@hotpop.com>	<47D5D8C0.2060407@gmail.com>	<47D60EAD.8070304@hotpop.com>	<47D756AC.1080504@ameritech.net>	<47D75CED.1000701@hotpop.com>	<47D76398.7080105@ameritech.net>
	<47D7745A.4070707@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <47D78A9E.7090008@ameritech.net>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> 
> I used to use lots and lots of aliases when I was in college.
> 
> Then I found that in the commercial world, it can become
> a pain in the neck...as you get used to having your
> aliases...and then when you're working in some other
> environment... poof... now you're typing things that
> don't work the way you want them to (if at all)

And don't forget sometimes different shells, or regular vi instead of
vim. Working in different environments requires flexibility. It might
help to have your preferred startup files on a thumb drive, or available
over the network.

In this vein, this command:
  w3m mdlug.org/contacts/president/scripts+scraps/home/.bashrc
will send the file to standard output, but
  w3m mdlug.org/contacts/president/scripts+scraps/home/.bashrc |source -
will not source this stdout.
It seems there should be a way to do this just using pipes, but I
haven't been able to do it without writing to a local file first.
Hmmm.

> but your man alias is one worth using...


From micorral at comcast.net  Wed Mar 12 04:23:33 2008
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 04:23:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <47D78A9E.7090008@ameritech.net>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com> <47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>
	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>
	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>
	<47D4E5F4.8090409@hotpop.com>
	<47D5D8C0.2060407@gmail.com> <47D60EAD.8070304@hotpop.com>
	<47D756AC.1080504@ameritech.net> <47D75CED.1000701@hotpop.com>
	<47D76398.7080105@ameritech.net> <47D7745A.4070707@hotpop.com>
	<47D78A9E.7090008@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.1.00.0803120407170.8080@banana.sluggo.net>

2008-03-12, Monsieur Raymond McLaughlin a ecrit:
> In this vein, this command:
>  w3m mdlug.org/contacts/president/scripts+scraps/home/.bashrc
> will send the file to standard output, but
>  w3m mdlug.org/contacts/president/scripts+scraps/home/.bashrc |source -
> will not source this stdout.
> It seems there should be a way to do this just using pipes, but I
> haven't been able to do it without writing to a local file first.

See my previous post with the example of how using a pipe can sometimes
give unexpected results in bash. You could probably use coprocesses to
do the trick, but bash doesn't have those yet, IIRC (ksh93 does, though).

Even if you do my 'x=a; echo "b"|read x; echo $x' example in bash and
then in zsh, you'll see the difference.

Michael


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Wed Mar 12 04:52:46 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 04:52:46 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <47D78A9E.7090008@ameritech.net>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com>	<47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>	<47D4E5F4.8090409@hotpop.com>	<47D5D8C0.2060407@gmail.com>	<47D60EAD.8070304@hotpop.com>	<47D756AC.1080504@ameritech.net>	<47D75CED.1000701@hotpop.com>	<47D76398.7080105@ameritech.net>	<47D7745A.4070707@hotpop.com>
	<47D78A9E.7090008@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <47D799DE.1060005@hotpop.com>

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>> I used to use lots and lots of aliases when I was in college.
>>
>> Then I found that in the commercial world, it can become
>> a pain in the neck...as you get used to having your
>> aliases...and then when you're working in some other
>> environment... poof... now you're typing things that
>> don't work the way you want them to (if at all)
> 
> And don't forget sometimes different shells, or regular vi instead of
> vim. Working in different environments requires flexibility. It might
> help to have your preferred startup files on a thumb drive, or available
> over the network.
> 
> In this vein, this command:
>   w3m mdlug.org/contacts/president/scripts+scraps/home/.bashrc
> will send the file to standard output, but
>   w3m mdlug.org/contacts/president/scripts+scraps/home/.bashrc |source -
> will not source this stdout.

Can source actually accept input on stdin?

(file redirection ( < ) and piped data both show up on stdin).

> It seems there should be a way to do this just using pipes, but I
> haven't been able to do it without writing to a local file first.
> Hmmm.
> 
>> but your man alias is one worth using...



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Wed Mar 12 07:48:40 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 07:48:40 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Well, shucks - motherboard/CPU advice needed
In-Reply-To: <47D70218.6030609@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654A4@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Aaron Kulkis
> 1 SATA plug controls one SATA drive.

 Kinda what I thought. Oh, well, not a huge deal.

> The price is probably higher than what you're looking for,
> but in return, you've got a board which shouldn't become
> obsolescent for quite some time.

 Yeah, but the price is even higher than that, because with no onboard
video I'd need to pick up a PCI Express video card, too. We have four
kids, every penny counts.

 I think I'll price out what it'd take to get a MB w/onboard graphics,
and what it'd take to get a more expandable MB, and see if I can sell the
wife on the higher-priced option. :->

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                                  (313) 227-2317

 "[T]he U.S. film industry, in the midst of the worst box-office slump in
   20 years, looks for possible explanations as to why Americans are not
    flocking to movie theaters. In a totally unrelated development, The
  Adventures of Sharkboy and Lavagirl opens nationwide, to be followed in
 coming months by The Dukes of Hazzard and Deuce Bigalow, European Gigolo."
                             - Dave Barry
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Wed Mar 12 07:53:21 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 07:53:21 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Well, shucks - motherboard/CPU advice needed
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654A4@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654A5@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Ingles, Raymond

>  Yeah, but the price is even higher than that, because with no onboard
> video I'd need to pick up a PCI Express video card, too. We have four
> kids, every penny counts.

 And I just noticed the advanced MBs have a couple extra power plugs - EATX
and an extra PCIe power connector. Throw a new power supply into the mix. :-/

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                            (313) 227-2317

 Microsoft complaining about the source license used by Linux is like
       the event horizon calling the kettle black. - Adam Barr
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From tesral at comcast.net  Wed Mar 12 07:59:17 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 07:59:17 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Well, shucks - motherboard/CPU advice needed
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654A4@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654A4@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <47D7C595.3080202@comcast.net>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>  Yeah, but the price is even higher than that, because with no onboard
> video I'd need to pick up a PCI Express video card, too. We have four
> kids, every penny counts.
>
>  I think I'll price out what it'd take to get a MB w/onboard graphics,
> and what it'd take to get a more expandable MB, and see if I can sell the
> wife on the higher-priced option. :->
>   

I didn't think you could get a MB without on board video and sound these
days.  I prefer a separate video cards as the on board digs into your
system RAM for the display.  Not being a twitch gamer I don't need the
latest (Gate has a G Force 4, a bit dated these days)

BTW, if you want to haul that box over Thursday I have a few video cards
we could try and see if Aaron is right.  I also have a PSU tester. 
Hardware is us.  I might not know my way around the command line, but I
can build a box.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From tesral at comcast.net  Wed Mar 12 08:02:37 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 08:02:37 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Well, shucks - motherboard/CPU advice needed
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654A5@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654A5@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <47D7C65D.3060904@comcast.net>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>  And I just noticed the advanced MBs have a couple extra power plugs - EATX
> and an extra PCIe power connector. Throw a new power supply into the mix. :-/
>   
A better PSU us never a bad investment.  I have one box here with a 600 Watt, Gate has 500 watt and needs it.

Maestro had to have a late model PSU, it has SATA drives and needs the SATA power plug.


-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Wed Mar 12 08:15:25 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 08:15:25 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Well, shucks - motherboard/CPU advice needed
In-Reply-To: <47D7C595.3080202@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654A6@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Garry Stahl
> >  I think I'll price out what it'd take to get a MB w/onboard graphics,
> > and what it'd take to get a more expandable MB, and see if I can sell the
> > wife on the higher-priced option. :->

 Ya know, I think I can. Here's what it looks like (after rebates):

 Same CPU and memory for both:
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0253284
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0256275

 $170 total.

 Cheap MB option:
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0259059
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0266720

 $65 (MB) + 2x$20 (SATA adapters) = $105

 Expandable MB option (assuming I use the PCI IDE controller you so
generously offered):
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0278891
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0281134

 $55 (MB) + $80 (pretty *nice* video) = $135

 So, $275 for the one, $305 for the other. Now, this is after rebates and
before shipping, but even so - $30 for better performance now and *much*
better future-proofing? Should be a no-brainer.

> I prefer a separate video cards as the on board digs into your
> system RAM for the display.  Not being a twitch gamer I don't need the
> latest (Gate has a G Force 4, a bit dated these days)

 Me, too, but I was laboring under the assumption that it saved a significant
amount of cash. Doesn't look to be the case.
 
> BTW, if you want to haul that box over Thursday I have a few video cards
> we could try and see if Aaron is right.

 I've got a couple of spare AGP and PCI video cards myself, I might give
that a whirl.

> I also have a PSU tester.

 That would be quite useful, the problem is the four kids I mentioned before.
Plus my wife is recovering from surgery (she's fine, thankfully) so I've got
to be around. I honestly don't think it's the power supply, though.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                          (313) 227-2317

 "If atheism is a religion, then not collecting stamps is a hobby."
                          - Anonymous
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From driveray at ameritech.net  Wed Mar 12 15:11:29 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:11:29 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <47D799DE.1060005@hotpop.com>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com>	<47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>	<47D4E5F4.8090409@hotpop.com>	<47D5D8C0.2060407@gmail.com>	<47D60EAD.8070304@hotpop.com>	<47D756AC.1080504@ameritech.net>	<47D75CED.1000701@hotpop.com>	<47D76398.7080105@ameritech.net>	<47D7745A.4070707@hotpop.com>	<47D78A9E.7090008@ameritech.net>
	<47D799DE.1060005@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <47D82AE1.7000109@ameritech.net>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> Raymond McLaughlin wrote:

>> In this vein, this command:
>>   w3m mdlug.org/contacts/president/scripts+scraps/home/.bashrc
>> will send the file to standard output, but
>>   w3m mdlug.org/contacts/president/scripts+scraps/home/.bashrc |source -
>> will not source this stdout.
> 
> Can source actually accept input on stdin?

Maybe not.

> (file redirection ( < ) and piped data both show up on stdin).

Unless they are redirected, or piped, to anothe command. But source
doesn't seem to work that way.



From lnovak1 at ford.com  Wed Mar 12 15:57:52 2008
From: lnovak1 at ford.com (Novak, Louis (L.M.))
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:57:52 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] local data recovery service
In-Reply-To: <47D38940.4080706@ameritech.net>
References: <47D38940.4080706@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <E037466F30DD454FA3F82C941DFF92E10B4BEA83@na1fcm10.dearborn.ford.com>


Hey Folks,

Anyone have any experience or recommendations on a local data
recovery service for a failed drive?

more (or less) 'lack of backup admonishments' > /dev/null

Thanks in advance,

-- 
Louis Novak  lnovak1 at ford.com   (313)248-6788 
Ford Motor Co., IT Learning & Organizational Development
Eco-Tip: Bottled water is a waste of money and resources. Drink tap
water from a reusable container. 
Make this tip go viral, add it to your email signature.
Ask me about my Mercury Mariner Hybrid  



-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Raymond McLaughlin
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 1:53 AM
To: mdlug at mdlug.org
Subject: [mdlug] Minutes of Saturday March 8 MDLUG meeting

MDLUGers:

The March 2008 meeting of MDLUG was held at The Gaudior Academy in
Inkster this afternoon Saturday 3/8. The doors opened shortly after
12:00pm, and the meeting came to "order" just before 1:00, with
President Raymond McLaughlin presiding.

A total of 10 people signed the sign-in sheet, but there were three rows
of tables, and at least 5 people per row, so actual attendance was at
least 15. Several people came in during the presentation.

This month's meeting featured a presentation on digital photography by
Bill Buchanan. Mr. Buchanan  <http://www.thepixelmeister.com/> is
president of of Detroit's Photographic Guild
<http://www.thephotoguild.org/home.htm>, as well as Chairman of the
Guild's Electronic Imaging Division. His presentation, was well received
by the group, with many questions and at least as many answers.

The Power Point version of this presentation will be posted to our web
site when it becomes available. It was largely similar to the
presentation, "Making Pictures as Opposed to Taking Pictures", that  Mr.
Buchanan gave to the January meeting of SEMCO (South East Michigan
Computer Organization). SEMCO provides a podcast of this meeting here:
<http://www.semco.org/Data/SP0801a.mp3>. Mr Buchanan's presentation
starts 44:10 into the 1:50:40 podcast, (a ~20MB file).

Additional useful links recommended by Mr Buchanan:
Digital Camera reviews:<http://dpreview.com/>
Steve's Digicams:<http://www.steves-digicams.com/>
and
Tim Grey: <http://timgrey.com/>

Other business discussed at the meeting: Garry announced that four of
the five remaining members of DCG (Downriver Computer Group, nee
Downriver Commodore Group) were in attendance, and that they had agreed
to consider their group to also be in meeting. He also announced that
DCG had revoked their dues requirements for membership, and invited all
present to join. This is part of their effort to keep their organization
running, membered, and preserve their 501(c) educational organizational
status. Additionally they have requested that an MDLUG-retro mailing
list be added to the club server. Server Admin. Raymond McLaughlin said
he would see to this in the coming month.

There was some discussion of future officer's meetings, to be discussed
among the officers and appointees.

As club Secretary Mary Tomich was not present these minutes were
prepared by the President.

Reporting
Raymond McLaughlin
President MDLUG

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From tesral at comcast.net  Wed Mar 12 19:31:13 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 19:31:13 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] DCG Robot and Retro SIG
Message-ID: <47D867C1.6000401@comcast.net>

A last minute reminder about the Meeting at my place tomorrow.  e-mail
or call for RSVP we have limited room.  313-846-9145

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From peter at petertheplumber.net  Wed Mar 12 21:17:33 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 21:17:33 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] local data recovery service
In-Reply-To: <E037466F30DD454FA3F82C941DFF92E10B4BEA83@na1fcm10.dearborn.ford.com>
References: <47D38940.4080706@ameritech.net>
	<E037466F30DD454FA3F82C941DFF92E10B4BEA83@na1fcm10.dearborn.ford.com>
Message-ID: <1205371053.4336.15.camel@peter-notebook.site>


On Wed, 2008-03-12 at 15:57 -0400, Novak, Louis (L.M.) wrote:
> Hey Folks,
> 
> Anyone have any experience or recommendations on a local data
> recovery service for a failed drive?
> 
> more (or less) 'lack of backup admonishments' > /dev/null
> 
> Thanks in advance,

Louis,
	I'm not sure this is what you're looking for because you said service,
but here it is FWIW. If the drive is in a box with a bootable cd drive
any live cd might let you access the the files on the failed drive. From
there you can scp, rsync, cp, etc. If that doesn/t work something like
Parted Magic
<http://partedmagic.com/wiki/PartedMagic.php?n=Main.PartedMagic> has
testdisk and several other recovery tools. Possibly something like Super
Grub Disk <http://www.supergrubdisk.org/index.php>?

Good Luck

-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Wed Mar 12 22:30:14 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 22:30:14 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Regular Expressions Cheat Sheet
Message-ID: <47D891B6.4030404@hotpop.com>


<http://www.ilovejackdaniels.com/cheat-sheets/regular-expressions-cheat-sheet/>




From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Thu Mar 13 02:32:38 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 02:32:38 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Well, shucks - motherboard/CPU advice needed
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654A5@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654A5@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <47D8CA86.7020606@hotpop.com>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>> From: Ingles, Raymond
> 
>>  Yeah, but the price is even higher than that, because with no onboard
>> video I'd need to pick up a PCI Express video card, too. We have four
>> kids, every penny counts.
> 
>  And I just noticed the advanced MBs have a couple extra power plugs - EATX
> and an extra PCIe power connector. Throw a new power supply into the mix. :-/

You can buy adapters for cheap...or if you can wait until after
the weekend, I can give you a set for free.


The motherboard I mentioned can use either ATX or EATX power 
supplies.  I foolishly purchased a couple of adapters before
reading the manual which notes that they are unnecessary, as
long as my PS can put out the required power.




From painbank at gmail.com  Thu Mar 13 07:09:48 2008
From: painbank at gmail.com (Rich Elswick)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 07:09:48 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] local data recovery service
In-Reply-To: <1205371053.4336.15.camel@peter-notebook.site>
References: <47D38940.4080706@ameritech.net>
	<E037466F30DD454FA3F82C941DFF92E10B4BEA83@na1fcm10.dearborn.ford.com>
	<1205371053.4336.15.camel@peter-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <cafacd830803130409i788829e3yd86eaa0f618e66c7@mail.gmail.com>

Are you referring to actually pulling data off the bytes on the hard drive?

As you might not see the data through a normal command line terminal.

Rich

On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 9:17 PM, Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
wrote:

>
> On Wed, 2008-03-12 at 15:57 -0400, Novak, Louis (L.M.) wrote:
> > Hey Folks,
> >
> > Anyone have any experience or recommendations on a local data
> > recovery service for a failed drive?
> >
> > more (or less) 'lack of backup admonishments' > /dev/null
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
>
> Louis,
>        I'm not sure this is what you're looking for because you said
> service,
> but here it is FWIW. If the drive is in a box with a bootable cd drive
> any live cd might let you access the the files on the failed drive. From
> there you can scp, rsync, cp, etc. If that doesn/t work something like
> Parted Magic
> <http://partedmagic.com/wiki/PartedMagic.php?n=Main.PartedMagic> has
> testdisk and several other recovery tools. Possibly something like Super
> Grub Disk <http://www.supergrubdisk.org/index.php>?
>
> Good Luck
>
> --
> Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
> http://petertheplumber.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>



-- 
Rich Elswick
http://www.moyaentertainment.com

<a
href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/scacast"><img src="
http://feeds.feedburner.com/scacast.gif" style="border:0" alt="The Pain Bank
- SCA and WMA"/></a>


From wolfger at gmail.com  Thu Mar 13 08:27:18 2008
From: wolfger at gmail.com (Wolfger)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 08:27:18 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Regular Expressions Cheat Sheet
In-Reply-To: <47D891B6.4030404@hotpop.com>
References: <47D891B6.4030404@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <3b00b3330803130527x4fbd2647k50202dc40e018394@mail.gmail.com>

Awesome. Thanks!

On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 10:30 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis3 at hotpop.com> wrote:
>
>  <http://www.ilovejackdaniels.com/cheat-sheets/regular-expressions-cheat-sheet/>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  mdlug mailing list
>  mdlug at mdlug.org
>  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>



-- 
Wolfger
http://wolfger.wordpress.com/
AOL IM: wolf4coyot
Yahoo!Messenger: wolfgersilberbaer


From lnovak1 at ford.com  Thu Mar 13 09:33:58 2008
From: lnovak1 at ford.com (Novak, Louis (L.M.))
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 09:33:58 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] local data recovery service
In-Reply-To: <cafacd830803130409i788829e3yd86eaa0f618e66c7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47D38940.4080706@ameritech.net><E037466F30DD454FA3F82C941DFF92E10B4BEA83@na1fcm10.dearborn.ford.com><1205371053.4336.15.camel@peter-notebook.site>
	<cafacd830803130409i788829e3yd86eaa0f618e66c7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E037466F30DD454FA3F82C941DFF92E10B4BEA88@na1fcm10.dearborn.ford.com>


More details:

Windows (sigh) won't boot. Boot reports hard disk error 7
The Dell disk utility reports read and time-out errors.

Using an Ubuntu Live CD the drive is visible but does not mount 
as a secondary drive. 

I can try the software mentioned in another post, though I was looking
for a professional service such as this one located in Livonia:
www.ineeddatarecovery.com

Anyone have any experience with them or others in the area?

Thanks in advance.

-- 
Louis Novak  lnovak1 at ford.com   (313)248-6788 
Ford Motor Co., IT Learning & Organizational Development
Eco-Tip: Bottled water is a waste of money and resources. Drink tap
water from a reusable container. 
Make this tip go viral, add it to your email signature.
Ask me about my Mercury Mariner Hybrid  



-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Rich Elswick
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 7:10 AM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] local data recovery service

Are you referring to actually pulling data off the bytes on the hard
drive?

As you might not see the data through a normal command line terminal.

Rich

On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 9:17 PM, Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
wrote:

>
> On Wed, 2008-03-12 at 15:57 -0400, Novak, Louis (L.M.) wrote:
> > Hey Folks,
> >
> > Anyone have any experience or recommendations on a local data
> > recovery service for a failed drive?
> >
> > more (or less) 'lack of backup admonishments' > /dev/null
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
>
> Louis,
>        I'm not sure this is what you're looking for because you said
> service,
> but here it is FWIW. If the drive is in a box with a bootable cd drive
> any live cd might let you access the the files on the failed drive.
From
> there you can scp, rsync, cp, etc. If that doesn/t work something like
> Parted Magic
> <http://partedmagic.com/wiki/PartedMagic.php?n=Main.PartedMagic> has
> testdisk and several other recovery tools. Possibly something like
Super
> Grub Disk <http://www.supergrubdisk.org/index.php>?
>
> Good Luck
>
> --
> Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
> http://petertheplumber.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>



-- 
Rich Elswick
http://www.moyaentertainment.com

<a
href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/scacast"><img src="
http://feeds.feedburner.com/scacast.gif" style="border:0" alt="The Pain
Bank
- SCA and WMA"/></a>
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From mathew.enders at prodigy.net  Thu Mar 13 10:51:34 2008
From: mathew.enders at prodigy.net (Mathew Enders)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 10:51:34 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT WIN XP to be OS for OLPC
Message-ID: <1205419894.5851.67.camel@laptop01>

-------- Forwarded Message --------
> > To: The WFTL LUG <wftl-lug at salmar.com>
> > Subject: [Wftl-lug] OLPC; end of the dream
> > Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:55:44 -0400
> > 
> > Hello everyone,
> > 
> > Like the subject line. Here's another. "Negroponte says Windows XP should be a
> > vailable on the XO in less than 60 days." Follow yon friendly link for a nice 
> > story about this 'interesting' development.
> > 
> >    http://tinyurl.com/2jrlg2
> > 
> > Your thoughts?
> > 
> 



From drew4096 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 13 12:44:49 2008
From: drew4096 at gmail.com (Drew)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 11:44:49 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Regular Expressions Cheat Sheet
In-Reply-To: <47D891B6.4030404@hotpop.com>
References: <47D891B6.4030404@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20080313114417.030b5a40@pop.gmail.com>

At 09:30 PM 3/12/08, Aaron Kulkis wrote:

><http://www.ilovejackdaniels.com/cheat-sheets/regular-expressions-cheat-sheet/>

Interesting host name there...

----

- Drew.



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Mar 13 12:28:51 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 12:28:51 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT WIN XP to be OS for OLPC
In-Reply-To: <1205419894.5851.67.camel@laptop01>
References: <1205419894.5851.67.camel@laptop01>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803130928o1712b391kc3c2f138216ba55b@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 10:51 AM, Mathew Enders
<mathew.enders at prodigy.net> wrote:
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>  > > To: The WFTL LUG <wftl-lug at salmar.com>
>  > > Subject: [Wftl-lug] OLPC; end of the dream
>  > > Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:55:44 -0400
>  > >
>  > > Hello everyone,
>  > >
>  > > Like the subject line. Here's another. "Negroponte says Windows XP should be a
>  > > vailable on the XO in less than 60 days." Follow yon friendly link for a nice
>  > > story about this 'interesting' development.
>  > >
>  > >    http://tinyurl.com/2jrlg2
>  > >
>  > > Your thoughts?

Any technical education involving computers needs to include realistic
training on security.  The Linux-based OLPC doesn't accommodate virus
development and anti-virus security which makes up a large portion of
the IT industry.

XP is a more familiar interface for adult users.

Clicking an exe to install an application makes for an easier
deployment method for adware which is important to the future success
of the OLPC.  Advertisement-subsidised services like Internet access
are a proven revenue model.  Just think of how many laptops could be
funded by Viagra ads?


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Mar 13 12:34:18 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 12:34:18 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] local data recovery service
In-Reply-To: <E037466F30DD454FA3F82C941DFF92E10B4BEA88@na1fcm10.dearborn.ford.com>
References: <47D38940.4080706@ameritech.net>
	<E037466F30DD454FA3F82C941DFF92E10B4BEA83@na1fcm10.dearborn.ford.com>
	<1205371053.4336.15.camel@peter-notebook.site>
	<cafacd830803130409i788829e3yd86eaa0f618e66c7@mail.gmail.com>
	<E037466F30DD454FA3F82C941DFF92E10B4BEA88@na1fcm10.dearborn.ford.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803130934o4ae39d0at862bfcd7956c17eb@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 9:33 AM, Novak, Louis (L.M.) <lnovak1 at ford.com> wrote:
>
>  More details:
>
>  Windows (sigh) won't boot. Boot reports hard disk error 7
>  The Dell disk utility reports read and time-out errors.
>
>  Using an Ubuntu Live CD the drive is visible but does not mount
>  as a secondary drive.

That would imply an electronics or motor failure.  Fixing the
electronics requires a matching PCB.  Fixing the motor requires a
clean room ($$$$$$$).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_recovery


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Thu Mar 13 03:34:43 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 03:34:43 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] UNIX tips: Learn 10 good UNIX usage habits
In-Reply-To: <47D82AE1.7000109@ameritech.net>
References: <47D3969A.4000901@hotpop.com>	<47D4555F.2050209@ameritech.net>	<20080310044157.49B51127D3C@starfox.local>	<4145b6790803092222p476edc1by947fd5df5fab271d@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803100309370.6342@banana.sluggo.net>	<47D4E5F4.8090409@hotpop.com>	<47D5D8C0.2060407@gmail.com>	<47D60EAD.8070304@hotpop.com>	<47D756AC.1080504@ameritech.net>	<47D75CED.1000701@hotpop.com>	<47D76398.7080105@ameritech.net>	<47D7745A.4070707@hotpop.com>	<47D78A9E.7090008@ameritech.net>	<47D799DE.1060005@hotpop.com>
	<47D82AE1.7000109@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <47D8D913.2030501@hotpop.com>

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>> Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> 
>>> In this vein, this command:
>>>   w3m mdlug.org/contacts/president/scripts+scraps/home/.bashrc
>>> will send the file to standard output, but
>>>   w3m mdlug.org/contacts/president/scripts+scraps/home/.bashrc |source -
>>> will not source this stdout.
>> Can source actually accept input on stdin?
> 
> Maybe not.
> 
>> (file redirection ( < ) and piped data both show up on stdin).
> 
> Unless they are redirected, or piped, to anothe command. But source
> doesn't seem to work that way.

$ TMPFILE=/tmp/$$; w3m \
mdlug.org/contacts/president/scripts+scraps/home/.bashrc \
  > ${TMPFILE} &&  source ${TMPFILE}; rm ${TMPFILE}





From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Thu Mar 13 05:18:39 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 05:18:39 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] local data recovery service
In-Reply-To: <E037466F30DD454FA3F82C941DFF92E10B4BEA83@na1fcm10.dearborn.ford.com>
References: <47D38940.4080706@ameritech.net>
	<E037466F30DD454FA3F82C941DFF92E10B4BEA83@na1fcm10.dearborn.ford.com>
Message-ID: <47D8F16F.6010207@hotpop.com>

Novak, Louis (L.M.) wrote:
> Hey Folks,
> 
> Anyone have any experience or recommendations on a local data
> recovery service for a failed drive?
> 

Have you tried dd_rescue?


> more (or less) 'lack of backup admonishments' > /dev/null
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 





From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Thu Mar 13 13:27:00 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 13:27:00 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT WIN XP to be OS for OLPC
In-Reply-To: <1205419894.5851.67.camel@laptop01>
References: <1205419894.5851.67.camel@laptop01>
Message-ID: <47D963E4.8030403@hotpop.com>

Mathew Enders wrote:
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>>> To: The WFTL LUG <wftl-lug at salmar.com>
>>> Subject: [Wftl-lug] OLPC; end of the dream
>>> Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:55:44 -0400
>>>
>>> Hello everyone,
>>>
>>> Like the subject line. Here's another. "Negroponte says Windows XP should be a
>>> vailable on the XO in less than 60 days." Follow yon friendly link for a nice 
>>> story about this 'interesting' development.
>>>
>>>    http://tinyurl.com/2jrlg2
>>>
>>> Your thoughts?

Fear in Redmond.




From treii28 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 13 14:07:01 2008
From: treii28 at yahoo.com (Scott Webster Wood)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 11:07:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] local data recovery service
Message-ID: <795996.27510.qm@web38015.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Yeah, I have a laptop drive that started 'clicking' - the process made further complex with the fact it's a laptop drive and thus the inner workings are smaller and some shops can't deal with them.  Most places quoted me prices 'starting' in the $600-1200 range and all had big disclaimers that this was just a base quote.

SW

----- Original Message ----
From: Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 11:34:18 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] local data recovery service

On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 9:33 AM, Novak, Louis (L.M.) <lnovak1 at ford.com> wrote:
>
>  More details:
>
>  Windows (sigh) won't boot. Boot reports hard disk error 7
>  The Dell disk utility reports read and time-out errors.
>
>  Using an Ubuntu Live CD the drive is visible but does not mount
>  as a secondary drive.

That would imply an electronics or motor failure.  Fixing the
electronics requires a matching PCB.  Fixing the motor requires a
clean room ($$$$$$$).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_recovery
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug





      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ 



From danno at umich.edu  Thu Mar 13 14:12:06 2008
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 14:12:06 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Well, shucks - motherboard/CPU advice needed
In-Reply-To: <47D6FACE.7080506@hotpop.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E03716549E@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<47D6FACE.7080506@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <20080313181206.GA54382@maniac.deathstar.org>

> Attach a PATA drive to a SATA cable:
> http://www.724deal.com/18-inch-ide-to-ata-interface-converter-card-727.html

this isn't actually what you describe it as, it's a converter
for a laptop hard disk to a standard sized PATA connector.
i'm sure they have the right part for a similar price to
the below.

> 
> Attach a SATA drive to a PATA cable:
> http://www.724deal.com/parallel-pata-to-serial-sata-hard-disk-converter-643.html

since ray mentioned every little bit counts, i'll suggest
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=sata+ide+adapter&category0=

which shows them for $5.50 shipped.  I've bought simliar items 
from hong kong sellers before with good results.


for motherboards, I like this board:

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131174

which has basically everything on it you might ever want, including
firewire, for $80, and is from a good manufacturer (says the guy
with the flakey-under-linux pc chips mobo and the dead epox mobo
from my previous round of purchases).  Note it has ATI graphics,
not nvidia.

or this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131172
same, except no HDMI, for $70.

or better yet,
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131172R
the no-hdmi board "open box" for $38.

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From radkins at impelind.com  Thu Mar 13 14:22:05 2008
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 14:22:05 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] local data recovery service
In-Reply-To: <795996.27510.qm@web38015.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20080313182137.26FB2C0C6@impelind.com>

	I (recently) spent roughly 3 hours lightly tapping on a laptop hard
drive as a ghosted it to a replacement laptop hard drive. The hard drive
would get "stuck" after a few moments of operation and if left idle, this
would cause the OS or whatever operation that was being performed to kick
out a fatal error message.

	The light tapping "loosened" up the drive and kept it spinning long
enough for the ghost process to play out.

	No, it wasn't fun.

	Would I do it again? If I must, then I must.

	Did it actually end up saving me time? Heck yeah, installing Windows
XP Pro from scratch, along with all the drivers, patches, applications and
then patches for those applications would have taken me nearly 5 hours.

	-Rob


> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Scott Webster Wood
> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 2:07 PM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] local data recovery service
> 
> Yeah, I have a laptop drive that started 'clicking' - the 
> process made further complex with the fact it's a laptop 
> drive and thus the inner workings are smaller and some shops 
> can't deal with them.  Most places quoted me prices 
> 'starting' in the $600-1200 range and all had big disclaimers 
> that this was just a base quote.
> 
> SW
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com>
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 11:34:18 AM
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] local data recovery service
> 
> On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 9:33 AM, Novak, Louis (L.M.) 
> <lnovak1 at ford.com> wrote:
> >
> >  More details:
> >
> >  Windows (sigh) won't boot. Boot reports hard disk error 7  
> The Dell 
> > disk utility reports read and time-out errors.
> >
> >  Using an Ubuntu Live CD the drive is visible but does not 
> mount  as a 
> > secondary drive.
> 
> That would imply an electronics or motor failure.  Fixing the 
> electronics requires a matching PCB.  Fixing the motor 
> requires a clean room ($$$$$$$).
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_recovery
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>       
> ______________________________________________________________
> ______________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 



From mdlug3 at arb.net  Thu Mar 13 14:30:48 2008
From: mdlug3 at arb.net (Dave Arbogast)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 14:30:48 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] local data recovery service
In-Reply-To: <20080313182137.26FB2C0C6@impelind.com>
References: <20080313182137.26FB2C0C6@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <47D972D8.6000601@arb.net>

When Sony sold Apple all those drives with contaminated spindle bearing 
grease, we were the warranty shop that replaced them. I thought of a 
similar technique to recover the data for the customers. Using a cable 
extender for the bus and the power, I had the drive exterior to the 
computer with the replacement drive also on the bus but another address. 
Then. holding it on the end furthest from the spindle, I would hit it 
with my hand at startup in the plane of the disk platters. Do the 
physics, the inertia of the platters closes to my other hand - the new 
pivoting point for the mass, was different from the mass of the platters 
furthest from my hand. I was able to recover all the data for all the 
drives we did after that point.

I've done the same thing on several laptops with "clicking" drives. I've 
also had a few dozen with failed PCB that replacing the PCB allowed full 
recovery. I've never had a motor fail to spin after this technique, 
heads, or servo fail, but I'm sure it happens.

-dave
Robert Adkins wrote:

>	I (recently) spent roughly 3 hours lightly tapping on a laptop hard
>drive as a ghosted it to a replacement laptop hard drive. The hard drive
>would get "stuck" after a few moments of operation and if left idle, this
>would cause the OS or whatever operation that was being performed to kick
>out a fatal error message.
>
>	The light tapping "loosened" up the drive and kept it spinning long
>enough for the ghost process to play out.
>
>	No, it wasn't fun.
>
>	Would I do it again? If I must, then I must.
>
>	Did it actually end up saving me time? Heck yeah, installing Windows
>XP Pro from scratch, along with all the drivers, patches, applications and
>then patches for those applications would have taken me nearly 5 hours.
>
>	-Rob
>
>
>  
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
>>[mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Scott Webster Wood
>>Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 2:07 PM
>>To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
>>Subject: Re: [mdlug] local data recovery service
>>
>>Yeah, I have a laptop drive that started 'clicking' - the 
>>process made further complex with the fact it's a laptop 
>>drive and thus the inner workings are smaller and some shops 
>>can't deal with them.  Most places quoted me prices 
>>'starting' in the $600-1200 range and all had big disclaimers 
>>that this was just a base quote.
>>
>>SW
>>
>>----- Original Message ----
>>From: Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com>
>>To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>>Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 11:34:18 AM
>>Subject: Re: [mdlug] local data recovery service
>>
>>On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 9:33 AM, Novak, Louis (L.M.) 
>><lnovak1 at ford.com> wrote:
>>    
>>
>>> More details:
>>>
>>> Windows (sigh) won't boot. Boot reports hard disk error 7  
>>>      
>>>
>>The Dell 
>>    
>>
>>>disk utility reports read and time-out errors.
>>>
>>> Using an Ubuntu Live CD the drive is visible but does not 
>>>      
>>>
>>mount  as a 
>>    
>>
>>>secondary drive.
>>>      
>>>
>>That would imply an electronics or motor failure.  Fixing the 
>>electronics requires a matching PCB.  Fixing the motor 
>>requires a clean room ($$$$$$$).
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_recovery
>>_______________________________________________
>>mdlug mailing list
>>mdlug at mdlug.org
>>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>      
>>______________________________________________________________
>>______________________
>>Be a better friend, newshound, and
>>know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  
>>http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ 
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>mdlug mailing list
>>mdlug at mdlug.org
>>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>>
>>    
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>  
>


From gib at juno.com  Thu Mar 13 15:39:46 2008
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 19:39:46 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] DCG Robot and Retro SIG
Message-ID: <20080313.153946.27152.0@webmail30.vgs.untd.com>

 
Details such as the time would help me.  I don't recall you address either (suppose I could look it up).  Can you email me direct if posting the address is a concern?

-- Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:
A last minute reminder about the Meeting at my place tomorrow.  e-mail
or call for RSVP we have limited room.  313-846-9145

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


_____________________________________________________________
Click here to find travel and cruise franchise opportunities.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/REAK6ZpRpIqHozb7QI4rSR2ednc9cEVXTL45P61K3YSlhfePJsczvm/


From tesral at comcast.net  Thu Mar 13 17:09:01 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 17:09:01 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] DCG Robot and Retro SIG
In-Reply-To: <20080313.153946.27152.0@webmail30.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20080313.153946.27152.0@webmail30.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <47D997ED.6090504@comcast.net>

gib at juno.com wrote:
>  
> Details such as the time would help me.  I don't recall you address either (suppose I could look it up).  Can you email me direct if posting the address is a concern?
>
> -- Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:
> A last minute reminder about the Meeting at my place tomorrow.  e-mail
> or call for RSVP we have limited room.  313-846-9145
>
>   
7:00  6940 Mead Dearborn, Mi.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From relson at osagesoftware.com  Thu Mar 13 21:48:23 2008
From: relson at osagesoftware.com (David Relson)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 21:48:23 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Well, shucks - motherboard/CPU advice needed
In-Reply-To: <20080313181206.GA54382@maniac.deathstar.org>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E03716549E@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<47D6FACE.7080506@hotpop.com>
	<20080313181206.GA54382@maniac.deathstar.org>
Message-ID: <20080313214823.3b18be2b@osage.osagesoftware.com>

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 14:12:06 -0400
Dan Pritts wrote:

...[snip]...

> for motherboards, I like this board:
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131174
> 
> which has basically everything on it you might ever want, including
> firewire, for $80, and is from a good manufacturer (says the guy
> with the flakey-under-linux pc chips mobo and the dead epox mobo
> from my previous round of purchases).  Note it has ATI graphics,
> not nvidia.
> 
> or this:
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131172
> same, except no HDMI, for $70.

I'm running this board and it's working quite well.  When I got it, the
SB600's USB didn't play nice with Linux so I installed a PCI USB card.
 I don't know if the kernel has caught up to the chip, or not.

David


From codeshepherd at gmail.com  Thu Mar 13 18:53:11 2008
From: codeshepherd at gmail.com (Deepan Chakravarthy)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 04:23:11 +0530
Subject: [mdlug] mplayer full screen
Message-ID: <a803558d0803131553i182c56eh6ab46a3d91e77f5b@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
  When I play movies in my Fedora 8 system using mplayer, the movie is
rendered only in a small portion of the screen. Even with full screen
option, it does not render in full screen. How do I fix it ?

-- 
Facebook Sudoku App: http://apps.facebook.com/sudokusolver/
Sudoku Solver: http://www.sudoku-solver.net


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 14 09:52:10 2008
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 09:52:10 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Security website hacked to spread malware
Message-ID: <b67fb0380803140652y3851b80fv7b0d20ab8933edc2@mail.gmail.com>

Schadenfreude is a powerful thing...

"Security website hacked to spread malware"
<http://www.techworld.com/news/index.cfm?newsID=11718&printerfriendly=1>

The moral: when your "dog food" contains Microsoft ingredients, it's
time to switch your diet.

~~ Mikey


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Fri Mar 14 10:45:06 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:45:06 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Well, shucks - motherboard/CPU advice needed
In-Reply-To: <20080313214823.3b18be2b@osage.osagesoftware.com>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654B5@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: David Relson

> I'm running this board and it's working quite well.  When I got it, the
> SB600's USB didn't play nice with Linux so I installed a PCI USB card.
>  I don't know if the kernel has caught up to the chip, or not.

 Well, I ended up ordering the ECS A770M-A board. Cheap enough, and I just
don't trust ATI's drivers enough (yet). I can put a quad-core CPU in there
later, and the board supports up to 32GB RAM, which "ought to be enough for
anybody". :->

 The only downside I saw in reviews was that some of the chips on the
motherboard can run hot. But my case has plenty of fans (actually quite
noisy, really) so I'm not too worried about airflow. Plus, the new CPU
dissipates less heat than the two CPUs I had in there before.

 The only irritating thing is that MicroCenter took my order for memory,
and then said it was 'out of stock' and canceled that part of the order.
I ordered a different 2GB deal for about the same price, but that means
they get some extra shipping out of me. And, according to FedEx tracking,
the MB, CPU, and video card will arrive Saturday, but the memory won't
arrive until *next* Saturday, when we'll be on vacation. Oy.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                          (313) 227-2317

 "In the 1980s capitalism triumphed over communism. In the 1990s it
            triumphed over democracy." - David Korten
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Fri Mar 14 19:20:19 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 19:20:19 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] mplayer full screen
In-Reply-To: <a803558d0803131553i182c56eh6ab46a3d91e77f5b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a803558d0803131553i182c56eh6ab46a3d91e77f5b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803141620g288f641dw4fed0706fcd6a40c@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 6:53 PM, Deepan Chakravarthy
<codeshepherd at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>   When I play movies in my Fedora 8 system using mplayer, the movie is
>  rendered only in a small portion of the screen. Even with full screen
>  option, it does not render in full screen. How do I fix it ?

Try launching it from a terminal and see if there are any
display-related warnings.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Fri Mar 14 19:23:44 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 19:23:44 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Security website hacked to spread malware
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380803140652y3851b80fv7b0d20ab8933edc2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380803140652y3851b80fv7b0d20ab8933edc2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803141623i72f72c34g794b450801ba513e@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 9:52 AM, Michael Rudas <audiotech50 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Schadenfreude is a powerful thing...
>
>  "Security website hacked to spread malware"
>  <http://www.techworld.com/news/index.cfm?newsID=11718&printerfriendly=1>
>
>  The moral: when your "dog food" contains Microsoft ingredients, it's
>  time to switch your diet.

They've been to busy dealing with ClamAV:
http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.php?story=20080125135544713


From driveray at ameritech.net  Fri Mar 14 19:49:47 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 19:49:47 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] mplayer full screen
In-Reply-To: <a803558d0803131553i182c56eh6ab46a3d91e77f5b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a803558d0803131553i182c56eh6ab46a3d91e77f5b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47DB0F1B.8010007@ameritech.net>

Deepan Chakravarthy wrote:
> Hi,
>   When I play movies in my Fedora 8 system using mplayer, the movie is
> rendered only in a small portion of the screen. Even with full screen
> option, it does not render in full screen. How do I fix it ?
> 

Are you actually using mplayer (command line) or the gui extension gmlayer?

Either way you might try changing the video driver that the player is
using. In the gui program, click on the "wrench" button on the far left
of the player panel. The warning "Please remember that you need to
restart playback for some options to take effect!" is better understood
to mean you should exit and restart the player for changes to take effect.

On the video tab yu should see a list of available video drivers for
mplayer to use. My list look like this:
> xv
> x11
> gl
> gl2
> dfbmga
> xvidix
> xvmc
On my laptop I have xv selected. It works well so I don't fool with it.
Of course your mileage may vary.

Your selection of driver can affect both several things beside the "full
screen" behavior, such as the ability of screen capture programs to take
screen shot's of playing video.

I hope this helps
Raymond McLaughlin




From gib at juno.com  Fri Mar 14 22:34:07 2008
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 02:34:07 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] DCG Robot and Retro SIG
Message-ID: <20080314.223407.3705.0@webmail01.vgs.untd.com>


Missed it by that much.

Sorry I arrived a day late since I saw the note a day after you sent it.

-- Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:
A last minute reminder about the Meeting at my place tomorrow.  e-mail
or call for RSVP we have limited room.  313-846-9145

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

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From gib at juno.com  Fri Mar 14 22:44:46 2008
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 02:44:46 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  DCG Robot and Retro SIG - Robots at Wayne State
Message-ID: <20080314.224446.3705.1@webmail01.vgs.untd.com>


Robots at Wayne State
Robot story:
http://www.mitechnews.com/articles.asp?Id=8406

-- Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:
A last minute reminder about the Meeting at my place tomorrow.  e-mail
or call for RSVP we have limited room.  313-846-9145

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

_____________________________________________________________
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From gib at juno.com  Fri Mar 14 22:47:33 2008
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 02:47:33 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] mplayer full screen
Message-ID: <20080314.224733.3705.2@webmail01.vgs.untd.com>


I started having this same problem when I put in a different video card. I'm using the command line:
mplayer filename -vo x11
But ya know, I just learned to live with it.

-- Raymond McLaughlin <driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
Deepan Chakravarthy wrote:
> Hi,
>   When I play movies in my Fedora 8 system using mplayer, the movie is
> rendered only in a small portion of the screen. Even with full screen
> option, it does not render in full screen. How do I fix it ?
> 

Are you actually using mplayer (command line) or the gui extension gmlayer?

Either way you might try changing the video driver that the player is
using. In the gui program, click on the "wrench" button on the far left
of the player panel. The warning "Please remember that you need to
restart playback for some options to take effect!" is better understood
to mean you should exit and restart the player for changes to take effect.

On the video tab yu should see a list of available video drivers for
mplayer to use. My list look like this:
> xv
> x11
> gl
> gl2
> dfbmga
> xvidix
> xvmc
On my laptop I have xv selected. It works well so I don't fool with it.
Of course your mileage may vary.

Your selection of driver can affect both several things beside the "full
screen" behavior, such as the ability of screen capture programs to take
screen shot's of playing video.

I hope this helps
Raymond McLaughlin


_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

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From gib at juno.com  Fri Mar 14 22:56:55 2008
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 02:56:55 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] mplayer full screen
Message-ID: <20080314.225655.6889.0@webmail07.vgs.untd.com>


Oh, hey - I tried that gmplayer.  I got an additional box displayed that includes controls like on a tape player (forward back . . .). But no wrench.

-- Raymond McLaughlin <driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
Deepan Chakravarthy wrote:
> Hi,
>   When I play movies in my Fedora 8 system using mplayer, the movie is
> rendered only in a small portion of the screen. Even with full screen
> option, it does not render in full screen. How do I fix it ?
> 

Are you actually using mplayer (command line) or the gui extension gmlayer?

Either way you might try changing the video driver that the player is
using. In the gui program, click on the "wrench" button on the far left
of the player panel. The warning "Please remember that you need to
restart playback for some options to take effect!" is better understood
to mean you should exit and restart the player for changes to take effect.

On the video tab yu should see a list of available video drivers for
mplayer to use. My list look like this:
> xv
> x11
> gl
> gl2
> dfbmga
> xvidix
> xvmc
On my laptop I have xv selected. It works well so I don't fool with it.
Of course your mileage may vary.

Your selection of driver can affect both several things beside the "full
screen" behavior, such as the ability of screen capture programs to take
screen shot's of playing video.

I hope this helps
Raymond McLaughlin


_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

_____________________________________________________________
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From driveray at ameritech.net  Fri Mar 14 23:25:26 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 23:25:26 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] mplayer full screen
In-Reply-To: <20080314.225655.6889.0@webmail07.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20080314.225655.6889.0@webmail07.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <47DB41A6.6070505@ameritech.net>

gib at juno.com wrote:
> Oh, hey - I tried that gmplayer.  I got an additional box displayed that
> includes controls like on a tape player (forward back . . .)
> But no wrench.

There are different skins, but the the default fits your description. At
the far right is a round button with a large upright "X" which closes
the player. At the far left is a similarly situated round button with a
floating "x chromosome" looking thing. I interpret this as a double end
wrench. It opens the preferences dialog.

> I started having this same problem when I put in a different video card.
> I'm using the command line: mplayer filename -vo x11 
> But ya know, I just learned to live with it.

You could try "mplayer -vo xv" for instancem, and see how you like the
results. And if you want to avoid having to type in extra command line,
you can put you preferences in your personal config file. It's
interesting that mplayer seems to keep two config files: one for the gui
version (~/.mplayer.gui.conf) and one for the command line version
(~/.mplayer/config). This is especially funny because, on my system at
least, /usr/bin/gmplayer is a symlink to /usr/bin/mplayer!

Any clearer?





From gib at juno.com  Sat Mar 15 12:01:13 2008
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 16:01:13 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  mplayer full screen
Message-ID: <20080315.120113.8990.0@webmail24.vgs.untd.com>


Thank you Ray. Your instructions are clear I just don't have the wrench.  Also I don't have the xv driver.  Tried the xv option and I got a clear error message indicating that I should run xvinfo.  I ran xvinfo it said that I had no driver.  

I tried installing the latest driver for the video card when I installed the card.  Too much like going to the dentist (painful).  I'd need to make sure I had the right environment, compiler . . .

If I wanted this to be like work I'd come up with a plan to get the proper software.

-- Raymond McLaughlin <driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
gib at juno.com wrote:
> Oh, hey - I tried that gmplayer.  I got an additional box displayed that
> includes controls like on a tape player (forward back . . .)
> But no wrench.

There are different skins, but the the default fits your description. At
the far right is a round button with a large upright "X" which closes
the player. At the far left is a similarly situated round button with a
floating "x chromosome" looking thing. I interpret this as a double end
wrench. It opens the preferences dialog.

> I started having this same problem when I put in a different video card.
> I'm using the command line: mplayer filename -vo x11 
> But ya know, I just learned to live with it.

You could try "mplayer -vo xv" for instancem, and see how you like the
results. And if you want to avoid having to type in extra command line,
you can put you preferences in your personal config file. It's
interesting that mplayer seems to keep two config files: one for the gui
version (~/.mplayer.gui.conf) and one for the command line version
(~/.mplayer/config). This is especially funny because, on my system at
least, /usr/bin/gmplayer is a symlink to /usr/bin/mplayer!

Any clearer?



_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

_____________________________________________________________
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From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 15 14:54:46 2008
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 14:54:46 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Weather-info options
Message-ID: <b67fb0380803151154o4ca3b20fwb2af780d61aacfc5@mail.gmail.com>

This is mostly for our North American-based list members.

Severe weather is a concern this time of year.  For years, I have been
using the advertising-supported WeatherBug and an ad-free alternative,
Weather Pulse under Microsoft Windows -- but was not aware of
alternatives under Linux, so I decided to take a look at The Weather
Channel and AccuWeather.

Of course, you can always go to their respective websites to view
current conditions:
<http://www.weatherbug.com>
<http://www.accuweather.com>
<http://www.weather.com>
but that's a bit of a hassle.

Fortunately, The Weather Channel and AccuWeather both provide free
downloads and services.  For those of us that run Linux or Mac OS X,
both services provide Firefox extensions.  Since Firefox extensions
are OS-agnostic, they run fine in any environment that supports
Firefox. Both also offer a variety of toolbars and widgets for a
variety of environments.
<http://www.accuweather.com/downloadcenter.asp>
<http://www.weather.com/services/downloads/index.html>

~~ Mikey


From escalated at gmail.com  Sat Mar 15 15:09:47 2008
From: escalated at gmail.com (merc)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 15:09:47 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Weather-info options
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380803151154o4ca3b20fwb2af780d61aacfc5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380803151154o4ca3b20fwb2af780d61aacfc5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9852fbe30803151209v6a2691b4wee42dc86386868c1@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Mar 15, 2008 at 2:54 PM, Michael Rudas <audiotech50 at gmail.com> wrote:
> This is mostly for our North American-based list members.
>
>  Severe weather is a concern this time of year.  For years, I have been
>  using the advertising-supported WeatherBug and an ad-free alternative,
>  Weather Pulse under Microsoft Windows -- but was not aware of
>  alternatives under Linux, so I decided to take a look at The Weather
>  Channel and AccuWeather.
>
>  Of course, you can always go to their respective websites to view
>  current conditions:
>  <http://www.weatherbug.com>
>  <http://www.accuweather.com>
>  <http://www.weather.com>
>  but that's a bit of a hassle.
>
>  Fortunately, The Weather Channel and AccuWeather both provide free
>  downloads and services.  For those of us that run Linux or Mac OS X,
>  both services provide Firefox extensions.  Since Firefox extensions
>  are OS-agnostic, they run fine in any environment that supports
>  Firefox. Both also offer a variety of toolbars and widgets for a
>  variety of environments.
>  <http://www.accuweather.com/downloadcenter.asp>
>  <http://www.weather.com/services/downloads/index.html>
>
>  ~~ Mikey
>  _______________________________________________
>  mdlug mailing list
>  mdlug at mdlug.org
>  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>

I've been using an extension called forecast fox for as long as i can
remember, does a bunch of things(radar,severe weather alerts etc..)
and is super configurable.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/398


From relson at osagesoftware.com  Sat Mar 15 17:18:06 2008
From: relson at osagesoftware.com (David Relson)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 17:18:06 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] FIRST Robotics [was: DCG Robot and Retro SIG - Robots at
 Wayne State ]
In-Reply-To: <20080314.224446.3705.1@webmail01.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20080314.224446.3705.1@webmail01.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <20080315171806.55c0f4f3@osage.osagesoftware.com>

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 02:44:46 GMT
gib at juno.com wrote:

> 
> Robots at Wayne State
> Robot story:
> http://www.mitechnews.com/articles.asp?Id=8406
 
..[snip]....

The article is about the FIRST Robotics competition, specifically the
Detroit Regional this weekend.

In two weeks the Great Lakes Regional will be held at EMU's Convocation
Center in Ypsilanti.  It's a 3 day event with:

Thursday - uncrating the robots, last minute tests and fixes, etc

Friday   - qualifying rounds

Saturday AM - qualifying rounds and creation of the 8 alliances for the
finals

Saturday PM - the finals

If you've never been to a FIRST Robotics competion, you've missed a
great time -- lots of activity, creativity, energy, noise, kids,
robots, etc, etc.

My son Eric was on the Ann Arbor Pioneer team for 3 years (as a high
schooler) and has been a mentor for the last 2 years (as a college
engineering student).

There's much more info at the FIRST website, www.usfirst.org

Enjoy!

David


From jcbender at bendorius.com  Sat Mar 15 17:51:43 2008
From: jcbender at bendorius.com (Joseph C. Bender)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 17:51:43 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Weather-info options
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380803151154o4ca3b20fwb2af780d61aacfc5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380803151154o4ca3b20fwb2af780d61aacfc5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47DC44EF.2090700@bendorius.com>

Michael Rudas wrote:
> This is mostly for our North American-based list members.
> 
> Severe weather is a concern this time of year.  For years, I have been
> using the advertising-supported WeatherBug and an ad-free alternative,
> Weather Pulse under Microsoft Windows -- but was not aware of
> alternatives under Linux, so I decided to take a look at The Weather
> Channel and AccuWeather.
 >
	Or just get the XML/RSS straight from the people actually issuing the 
warnings:

http://www.weather.gov/alerts/

Updated every two minutes.



From driveray at ameritech.net  Sat Mar 15 19:09:09 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 19:09:09 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Weather-info options
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380803151154o4ca3b20fwb2af780d61aacfc5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380803151154o4ca3b20fwb2af780d61aacfc5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47DC5715.8040403@ameritech.net>

Michael Rudas wrote:
> This is mostly for our North American-based list members.
> 
> Severe weather is a concern this time of year.  For years, I have been
> using the advertising-supported WeatherBug and an ad-free alternative,
> Weather Pulse under Microsoft Windows -- but was not aware of
> alternatives under Linux, 

> ~~ Mikey

If you want something like the WeatherBug KDE provides an addon called
KWeather that sits on a task bar and report weather conditions at your
chosen weather station, typically an airport. The one feature it lacks
has to do with the barometer. It reports the current reading, but not
the delta or direction of change.

Ray


From micorral at comcast.net  Sat Mar 15 20:28:24 2008
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 20:28:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Weather-info options
In-Reply-To: <9852fbe30803151209v6a2691b4wee42dc86386868c1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380803151154o4ca3b20fwb2af780d61aacfc5@mail.gmail.com>
	<9852fbe30803151209v6a2691b4wee42dc86386868c1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.1.00.0803152026420.3067@banana.sluggo.net>

2008-03-15, Monsieur merc a ecrit:
> I've been using an extension called forecast fox for as long as i can
> remember, does a bunch of things(radar,severe weather alerts etc..)
> and is super configurable.

Same here, forecastfox is nice.
On my desktop I also use wmweather, a WindowMaker dockapp.

Michael


From codeshepherd at gmail.com  Sun Mar 16 05:26:59 2008
From: codeshepherd at gmail.com (Deepan)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 14:56:59 +0530
Subject: [mdlug] mplayer full screen
Message-ID: <3978497cd7a5e7374fe703ce77195a75@localhost.localdomain>


   Hi All,
   I am running Fedora core 7. When I play movies with mplayer, it does
   not play in full screen. Even if I press f for full screen, it plays
   the movie only in the center portion of the screen. I also tried
   mplayer -vo xv movie.avi .. It plays in full screen, but dies after
   sometime saying my system is too slow. I guess is has some thing to do
   with the video cards.. is there a fix ?
   Regards
   Deepan
   Facebook Sudoku Solver: http://apps.facebook.com/sudokusolver/
   Sudoku Solver: http://www.sudoku-solver.net/
   Home Page: http://www.codeshepherd/


From codeshepherd at gmail.com  Sun Mar 16 05:42:03 2008
From: codeshepherd at gmail.com (Deepan)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 15:12:03 +0530
Subject: [mdlug] [OT]Facebook app
Message-ID: <58a4cf91ec77fd0665e1b641444095cd@localhost.localdomain>

Hi All,

I just wrote a facebook application for playing
Sudoku.
 
Those interested..  
http://apps.facebook.com/sudokusolver/ 

For non-facebook users:
http://www.sudoku-solver.net/ 

Regards 

Deepan 





From driveray at ameritech.net  Sun Mar 16 09:17:02 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 09:17:02 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] mplayer full screen
In-Reply-To: <3978497cd7a5e7374fe703ce77195a75@localhost.localdomain>
References: <3978497cd7a5e7374fe703ce77195a75@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <47DD1DCE.3040205@ameritech.net>

Deepan wrote:
>    Hi All,
>    I am running Fedora core 7. When I play movies with mplayer, it does
>    not play in full screen. Even if I press f for full screen, it plays
>    the movie only in the center portion of the screen. I also tried
>    mplayer -vo xv movie.avi .. It plays in full screen, but dies after
>    sometime saying my system is too slow. I guess is has some thing to do
>    with the video cards.. is there a fix ?

Get a faster computer? Besides this there are several things worth
trying. First, you might try other drivers. If you have an open-GL video
card you might try "-vo gl". The gl driver hasn't worked well for me,
but I don't have any experience with Fedora, so your experience could
differ.

Another thing you can do is shutdown as many other programs as you can
before starting mplayer. In fact, if you are using gnome or KDE it would
probably be worth while to log out and select a lighter weight window
manager. TWM and WM2 are about the lightest available. Again I have no
experience with Fedora, so I can't help much here.

It might help some to give mplayer higher priority when you run it:
    nice -19 mplayer -vo <driver> movie.avi

One other option, though it is quite a bit of trouble, is to obtain the
source code for mplayer, then configure and compile it your self.
Situations like this are one case where it helps to run binaries that
are compiled explicitly for your hardware. I have seen this make the
difference between DVDs being barely playable, and playing well, on a
500 MHz Pentium III laptop.

I hope this helps
Raymond McLaughlin

>    Regards
>    Deepan



From driveray at ameritech.net  Sun Mar 16 09:22:12 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 09:22:12 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] mplayer full screen
In-Reply-To: <47DD1DCE.3040205@ameritech.net>
References: <3978497cd7a5e7374fe703ce77195a75@localhost.localdomain>
	<47DD1DCE.3040205@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <47DD1F04.30207@ameritech.net>

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:

> It might help some to give mplayer higher priority when you run it:
>     nice -19 mplayer -vo <driver> movie.avi

I meant to add that you might more traction with this if you "su -" to
root before you do this. I think the system would limit how much
priority an ordinary user can give a process.



From driveray at ameritech.net  Sun Mar 16 09:59:50 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 09:59:50 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Washtenaw LUG meeting next Thursday 3-19
Message-ID: <47DD27D6.9060308@ameritech.net>

Date/Time:
Thursday, March 20th at 8:00 PM

Location:
Washtenaw Community College
4800 E.Huron River Drive
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Room BE-270

Introduction: ls, The Basics of list
Presented by: Kenneth Coe
Main-Topic: The Care and Feeding of Servers : Part 1
Presented by: Mike Bernson


From driveray at ameritech.net  Sun Mar 16 10:01:00 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 10:01:00 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Washtenaw LUG meeting next Thursday 3-20
In-Reply-To: <47DD27D6.9060308@ameritech.net>
References: <47DD27D6.9060308@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <47DD281C.7090001@ameritech.net>

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Date/Time:
> Thursday, March 20th at 8:00 PM
> 
> Location:
> Washtenaw Community College
> 4800 E.Huron River Drive
> Ann Arbor, Michigan
> Room BE-270
> 
> Introduction: ls, The Basics of list
> Presented by: Kenneth Coe
> Main-Topic: The Care and Feeding of Servers : Part 1
> Presented by: Mike Bernson
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 



From codeshepherd at gmail.com  Sun Mar 16 11:57:21 2008
From: codeshepherd at gmail.com (Deepan Chakravarthy)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 21:27:21 +0530
Subject: [mdlug] mplayer full screen
In-Reply-To: <47DD1F04.30207@ameritech.net>
References: <3978497cd7a5e7374fe703ce77195a75@localhost.localdomain>
	<47DD1DCE.3040205@ameritech.net> <47DD1F04.30207@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <a803558d0803160857i2849cc5ajf26980ba4109a9fa@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 6:52 PM, Raymond McLaughlin <driveray at ameritech.net>
wrote:

> Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
>
> > It might help some to give mplayer higher priority when you run it:
> >     nice -19 mplayer -vo <driver> movie.avi
>
> I meant to add that you might more traction with this if you "su -" to
> root before you do this. I think the system would limit how much
> priority an ordinary user can give a process.
> lspci throws the following.. how do I find info about drivers ?
> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. UniChrome Pro
> IGP (rev 01)
>
> I will also try nice..
>

-- 
Facebook Sudoku App: http://apps.facebook.com/sudokusolver/
Sudoku Solver: http://www.sudoku-solver.net


From codeshepherd at gmail.com  Sun Mar 16 11:54:29 2008
From: codeshepherd at gmail.com (Deepan)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 21:24:29 +0530
Subject: [mdlug] HP Laptop Mic
Message-ID: <60c644b3135d198b5f32693f8e213e26@localhost.localdomain>

Hi All,
I have Fc 6 on a HP Pavllion dv 6000. I am able to
listen to music on the built in speakers.The
inbuilt mic doesn't work and when connecting
external speakers I don't get the sound on the
external speakers  thought my built in speakers
continue to work. After searching on the internet,
came to  know I had to upgrade alsa drivers. I
downloaded the latest version and  alsa-drivers
and als-libs and did as mentioned in the README.
But  /proc/asound/version still shows me the old
version. What have I missed ? Do I need to 
recompile the kernel ?
Regards 
Deepan 
Facebook Sudoku Solver:
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Home Page: http://www.codeshepherd/ 




From peter at petertheplumber.net  Sun Mar 16 14:47:01 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 14:47:01 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Weather-info options
In-Reply-To: <47DC5715.8040403@ameritech.net>
References: <b67fb0380803151154o4ca3b20fwb2af780d61aacfc5@mail.gmail.com>
	<47DC5715.8040403@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <1205693221.32187.4.camel@peter-notebook.site>


On Sat, 2008-03-15 at 19:09 -0400, Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Michael Rudas wrote:
> > This is mostly for our North American-based list members.
> > 
> > Severe weather is a concern this time of year.  For years, I have been
> > using the advertising-supported WeatherBug and an ad-free alternative,
> > Weather Pulse under Microsoft Windows -- but was not aware of
> > alternatives under Linux, 
> 
> > ~~ Mikey
> 
> If you want something like the WeatherBug KDE provides an addon called
> KWeather that sits on a task bar and report weather conditions at your
> chosen weather station, typically an airport. The one feature it lacks
> has to do with the barometer. It reports the current reading, but not
> the delta or direction of change.
> 

Gnome has the same, I think it gets it's information from weather.com.
You can configure it to show quite a bit of information including a
radar map. Right click the panel you want to add this to; add to panel;
and select it from the list.

Best Regards,
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From peter at petertheplumber.net  Sun Mar 16 14:58:29 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 14:58:29 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Another Google Project Almost Creepy
Message-ID: <1205693909.32187.12.camel@peter-notebook.site>

Hi Everyone,
 I found this the other day <http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl>.
Enter an address; for example Gaudior Academy at 27100 Avondale Avenue
Inkster MI; and up pops a window with a picture of the location. You can
then pan, zoom and drive up and down the street on your computer. You
can even pan way down and see parts of the car used to record this. Some
can be interesting, I have my work van in the drive way with my head
buried in the side door and you know what sticking out. Whatever was
happening at the instant of capture is now recorded forever. Based on my
house I would say it was done last year late in the summer, not quite
fall.

Best Regards,
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sun Mar 16 15:45:31 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 15:45:31 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] HP Laptop Mic
In-Reply-To: <60c644b3135d198b5f32693f8e213e26@localhost.localdomain>
References: <60c644b3135d198b5f32693f8e213e26@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803161245y3c5dddf5ha8304f1f2dee63a2@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Deepan <codeshepherd at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>  I have Fc 6 on a HP Pavllion dv 6000. I am able to
>  listen to music on the built in speakers.The
>  inbuilt mic doesn't work and when connecting
>  external speakers I don't get the sound on the
>  external speakers  thought my built in speakers
>  continue to work. After searching on the internet,
>  came to  know I had to upgrade alsa drivers. I
>  downloaded the latest version and  alsa-drivers
>  and als-libs and did as mentioned in the README.
>  But  /proc/asound/version still shows me the old
>  version. What have I missed ? Do I need to
>  recompile the kernel ?

You probably don't need to recompile the kernel although I have never
tried to build ALSA.  Have a look at this:
http://alsa.opensrc.org/index.php/Quick_Install


From relson at osagesoftware.com  Sun Mar 16 16:50:55 2008
From: relson at osagesoftware.com (David Relson)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 16:50:55 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] HP Laptop Mic
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90803161245y3c5dddf5ha8304f1f2dee63a2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <60c644b3135d198b5f32693f8e213e26@localhost.localdomain>
	<b02c40e90803161245y3c5dddf5ha8304f1f2dee63a2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080316165055.6d8c8b13@osage.osagesoftware.com>

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 15:45:31 -0400
Jeff Hanson wrote:

> On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Deepan <codeshepherd at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >  I have Fc 6 on a HP Pavllion dv 6000. I am able to
> >  listen to music on the built in speakers.The
> >  inbuilt mic doesn't work and when connecting
> >  external speakers I don't get the sound on the
> >  external speakers  thought my built in speakers
> >  continue to work. After searching on the internet,
> >  came to  know I had to upgrade alsa drivers. I
> >  downloaded the latest version and  alsa-drivers
> >  and als-libs and did as mentioned in the README.
> >  But  /proc/asound/version still shows me the old
> >  version. What have I missed ? Do I need to
> >  recompile the kernel ?
> 
> You probably don't need to recompile the kernel although I have never
> tried to build ALSA.  Have a look at this:
> http://alsa.opensrc.org/index.php/Quick_Install

It seems to me that, whether the kernel has ALSA support included or
not, is of some importance.  The following command will (likely) be
informative:

 zcat /proc/config | grep ALSA

HTH,

David


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sun Mar 16 18:09:42 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 18:09:42 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] mplayer full screen
In-Reply-To: <3978497cd7a5e7374fe703ce77195a75@localhost.localdomain>
References: <3978497cd7a5e7374fe703ce77195a75@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803161509o5454c755kc157c784ae744a57@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 5:26 AM, Deepan <codeshepherd at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>    Hi All,
>    I am running Fedora core 7. When I play movies with mplayer, it does
>    not play in full screen. Even if I press f for full screen, it plays
>    the movie only in the center portion of the screen. I also tried
>    mplayer -vo xv movie.avi .. It plays in full screen, but dies after
>    sometime saying my system is too slow. I guess is has some thing to do
>    with the video cards.. is there a fix ?

If you have an older system try other players like VLC which may have
less overhead.  I can't remember how much the players take advantage
of hardware video acceleration but check your drivers with glxgears
and glxinfo to see if OpenGL is working and configured correctly.


From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Sun Mar 16 19:31:22 2008
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Robert Meier)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 19:31:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] HP Laptop Mic
In-Reply-To: <60c644b3135d198b5f32693f8e213e26@localhost.localdomain> (message
	from Deepan on Sun, 16 Mar 2008 21:24:29 +0530)
References: <60c644b3135d198b5f32693f8e213e26@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20080316233122.CAA0C19E614@starfox.local>

Deepan,

> I have ...
> I am able to listen to music on the built in speakers.
> The [builtin] mic doesn't work and when connecting
> external speakers I don't get the sound on the
> external speakers [, though] my built in speakers
> continue to work. ...

I would be surprised if changing software had any impact at all.

Every laptop I've seen, has a player-style speaker jack
(usu. 1.5mm stereo) with 5 wires on the motherboard.
When no plug is in the jack, the sound card output is directed
to the builtin speakers.  When a plug is inserted into the jack,
it mechanically disconnects the builtin speakers, and connects
the output to the tip and rings on the plug.

If you are still hearing the sound on the builtin speakers,
I would guess that your plug is not mechanically fitting into
the jack (probable), or that the jack is broken (less probable).

I have seen laptops and players that require longer speaker plugs
to reach past thicker walls that provide sturdiness.  Usually if the jack
is broken (i.e. by forcing a too-large plug into it), the builtin
speakers are permanently disconnected.

Additionally, to avoid feedback, my laptop and many other appliances
disable the builtin microphone when the builtin speakers are wired
into the circuit.

I suggest that you try a diffent set of speakers with longer plug,
or use an adapter with a longer plug.

Hopefully helpful,
-- 
Bob

  "All that is necessory for the triumph of evil,
   is that enough good men do nothing."
     -- Edmund Burke



From ebielaczyc at gmail.com  Sun Mar 16 21:21:13 2008
From: ebielaczyc at gmail.com (Ein Bielaczyc)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 21:21:13 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Another Google Project Almost Creepy
In-Reply-To: <1205693909.32187.12.camel@peter-notebook.site>
References: <1205693909.32187.12.camel@peter-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <ba6f3ba00803161821n44bc2143pee0dd0e695991268@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 2:58 PM, Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>   I found this the other day <http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl>.
>  Enter an address; for example Gaudior Academy at 27100 Avondale Avenue
>  Inkster MI; and up pops a window with a picture of the location. You can
>  then pan, zoom and drive up and down the street on your computer. You
>  can even pan way down and see parts of the car used to record this. Some
>  can be interesting, I have my work van in the drive way with my head
>  buried in the side door and you know what sticking out. Whatever was
>  happening at the instant of capture is now recorded forever. Based on my
>  house I would say it was done last year late in the summer, not quite
>  fall.
>
>  Best Regards,
>  --
>  Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
>  http://petertheplumber.net
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  mdlug mailing list
>  mdlug at mdlug.org
>  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>

I vote creepy.

-- 
Ein Bielaczyc <ebielaczyc at gmail.com>

NOTICE: This E-mail (including attachments) is covered by the
Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C.2510-2521, is
confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention,
dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is
strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received
the message in error, then delete it.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sun Mar 16 23:17:16 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 23:17:16 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Another Google Project Almost Creepy
In-Reply-To: <ba6f3ba00803161821n44bc2143pee0dd0e695991268@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1205693909.32187.12.camel@peter-notebook.site>
	<ba6f3ba00803161821n44bc2143pee0dd0e695991268@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803162017i30665ae5t80b479101d986799@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 9:21 PM, Ein Bielaczyc <ebielaczyc at gmail.com> wrote:
>  I vote creepy.

Really makes the ICBM address obsolete.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICBM_address


From cvweiss at gmail.com  Mon Mar 17 01:04:19 2008
From: cvweiss at gmail.com (Clinton V. Weiss)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 01:04:19 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Another Google Project Almost Creepy
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90803162017i30665ae5t80b479101d986799@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1205693909.32187.12.camel@peter-notebook.site>	<ba6f3ba00803161821n44bc2143pee0dd0e695991268@mail.gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90803162017i30665ae5t80b479101d986799@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47DDFBD3.6030609@gmail.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 9:21 PM, Ein Bielaczyc <ebielaczyc at gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>>  I vote creepy.
>>     
>
> Really makes the ICBM address obsolete.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICBM_address
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>   
I never knew about the ICBM address, but then again I didn't discover 
the internet until 92 or so, and even then it was limited through a 
university account.

Funny how some people added "Don't shoot!" to their ICBM signature, I 
think I would have added:
"Do you want to play a game?"

Clinton


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 17 09:09:49 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 06:09:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
Message-ID: <700572.70720.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I have had a Lexmark printer, It did not work for Linux. 
I have had a Canon Pixma Printer, It did not work for Lunix. 

I do know that HP has tools for OpenSuse, and I walk in to a Big LOTS, and there is a Deskjet D1415  for $26.00. There are similar models selling at Best Buy, and other stores for 69.00.  The only thing you have to deal with is that it does not come with is that you need to get black ink, it just comes with color.

David C. Lane 






      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Mon Mar 17 09:33:57 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 09:33:57 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
In-Reply-To: <700572.70720.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654BF@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: David Lane

> I do know that HP has tools for OpenSuse, and I walk in to a 
> Big LOTS, and there is a Deskjet D1415  for $26.00.

 Lots of companies are starting to understand the benefits of open source. I just
attended a presentation here at Compuware a few days ago that showed some people
here "get it" - Compuware's been working with the Eclipse foundation for a long
time.

 Linux is only a part of open source, but the more open source stuff there is, the
more useful it becomes. There won't be a "Year of the Linux Desktop" - it'll just
keep growing, slowly and inexorably, and then it'll be a common part of the
landscape and no one will give it a second thought.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                   (313) 227-2317

   "Kids cost nothing to make, and what with the Internet,
     they practically raise themselves!" - Homer Simpson
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Mon Mar 17 10:22:42 2008
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 09:22:42 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Another Google Project Almost Creepy
In-Reply-To: <1205693909.32187.12.camel@peter-notebook.site>
References: <1205693909.32187.12.camel@peter-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <4145b6790803170722t1f583a65ga8cadc59947ac5ec@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 1:58 PM, Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:
>   I found this the other day <http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl>.
>  Enter an address; for example Gaudior Academy at 27100 Avondale Avenue
>  Inkster MI; and up pops a window with a picture of the location. You can
>  then pan, zoom and drive up and down the street on your computer.

It's called Google Street View:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Street_View

Some interesting sites with Google Street view:

http://mashable.com/2007/05/31/top-15-google-street-view-sightings/

Regards,
- Robert


From brian at dangerbacon.com  Mon Mar 17 13:12:28 2008
From: brian at dangerbacon.com (Brian)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 13:12:28 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] mplayer full screen
In-Reply-To: <3978497cd7a5e7374fe703ce77195a75@localhost.localdomain>
References: <3978497cd7a5e7374fe703ce77195a75@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <6f64e9540803171012g68d7483et6116001b34f3be94@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 5:26 AM, Deepan <codeshepherd at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>   Hi All,
>   I am running Fedora core 7. When I play movies with mplayer, it does
>   not play in full screen. Even if I press f for full screen, it plays
>   the movie only in the center portion of the screen. I also tried
>   mplayer -vo xv movie.avi .. It plays in full screen, but dies after
>   sometime saying my system is too slow. I guess is has some thing to do
>   with the video cards.. is there a fix ?
> <http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug>
>

Try running this with the -framedrop option.


-- 
Brian
"It's not stupid, it's advaaanced!" - Tallest Purple


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 17 15:23:26 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 12:23:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Score one for Novell
Message-ID: <190288.44585.qm@web37907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/newstex/AFX-0013-23832161.htm






      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Mar 17 15:33:40 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 15:33:40 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Score one for Novell
In-Reply-To: <190288.44585.qm@web37907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <190288.44585.qm@web37907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803171233y73f5d29dmd56e182342bb6992@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 3:23 PM, David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com> wrote:
> http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/newstex/AFX-0013-23832161.htm

Oh, this is the other Novell that didn't sign up for the patent
indemnification FUD. ;)


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Mar 17 15:58:05 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 15:58:05 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
In-Reply-To: <700572.70720.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <700572.70720.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803171258h1c00f355t59edcb8fbb1c3b27@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 9:09 AM, David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I have had a Lexmark printer, It did not work for Linux.
>  I have had a Canon Pixma Printer, It did not work for Lunix.

I never liked Lexmark printers.  The ones I've used had bad paper
handling and always skewed the printing.  Their Linux SDK only
supports a few models.  I'm not sure if their other models require
binary blobs that aren't in the SDK or no independant developers like
their products enough to bother adding support for them.

>  I do know that HP has tools for OpenSuse, and I walk in to a Big LOTS, and there is a Deskjet D1415  for $26.00. There are similar models selling at Best Buy, and other stores for 69.00.  The only thing you have to deal with is that it does not come with is that you need to get black ink, it just comes with color.

That model isn't listed on HP's support site.  Maybe it's an OEM
model.  I only found a forum post at Ubuntu about it not printing
correctly.


From mdlug3 at arb.net  Mon Mar 17 16:12:44 2008
From: mdlug3 at arb.net (Dave Arbogast)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 16:12:44 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90803171258h1c00f355t59edcb8fbb1c3b27@mail.gmail.com>
References: <700572.70720.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<b02c40e90803171258h1c00f355t59edcb8fbb1c3b27@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47DED0BC.70506@arb.net>



Jeff Hanson wrote:

>On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 9:09 AM, David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>I have had a Lexmark printer, It did not work for Linux.
>> I have had a Canon Pixma Printer, It did not work for Lunix.
>>    
>>
>
>I never liked Lexmark printers.  The ones I've used had bad paper
>handling and always skewed the printing.  Their Linux SDK only
>supports a few models.  I'm not sure if their other models require
>binary blobs that aren't in the SDK or no independant developers like
>their products enough to bother adding support for them.
>
>  
>
>> I do know that HP has tools for OpenSuse, and I walk in to a Big LOTS, and there is a Deskjet D1415  for $26.00. There are similar models selling at Best Buy, and other stores for 69.00.  The only thing you have to deal with is that it does not come with is that you need to get black ink, it just comes with color.
>>    
>>
>
>That model isn't listed on HP's support site.  Maybe it's an OEM
>model.  I only found a forum post at Ubuntu about it not printing
>correctly.
>____________
>
My Lexmark is a color laser printer on the net with postscript, so works 
well with Linux. It also has great quality so I am very happy with it. 
Ink jets are like a cell phone - the device is almost free but the use 
of it will cost you dearly. (Ink, especially if it has a chip in the 
cartridge so you need to buy a zapper and hope it resets it when you 
refill it)


-dave


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 17 16:22:50 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 13:22:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
Message-ID: <741685.4091.qm@web37911.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

The great thing about HP is that you can put a printer setting in the Model Family.  And it will still work.  

That worked with Xerox too. 

I'm doing back flips because I am just printing.  NOTHING worked before.

There are some Canon support but I was not able to get my Canon Pixma to work.

I had to print to .pdf file them print from Windows, that is not fun. :(

David 


----- Original Message ----
From: Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 3:58:05 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?

On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 9:09 AM, David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I have had a Lexmark printer, It did not work for Linux.
>  I have had a Canon Pixma Printer, It did not work for Lunix.

I never liked Lexmark printers.  The ones I've used had bad paper
handling and always skewed the printing.  Their Linux SDK only
supports a few models.  I'm not sure if their other models require
binary blobs that aren't in the SDK or no independant developers like
their products enough to bother adding support for them.

>  I do know that HP has tools for OpenSuse, and I walk in to a Big LOTS, and there is a Deskjet D1415  for $26.00. There are similar models selling at Best Buy, and other stores for 69.00.  The only thing you have to deal with is that it does not come with is that you need to get black ink, it just comes with color.

That model isn't listed on HP's support site.  Maybe it's an OEM
model.  I only found a forum post at Ubuntu about it not printing
correctly.
_______________________________________________
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mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug






      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 17 16:25:00 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 13:25:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
Message-ID: <621057.53149.qm@web37915.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I'll have to look in to that.  I have a USB d-link Net server But that lexmark did not work with Linux or the d-link server.

David 


----- Original Message ----
From: Dave Arbogast <mdlug3 at arb.net>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 4:12:44 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?



Jeff Hanson wrote:

>On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 9:09 AM, David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>I have had a Lexmark printer, It did not work for Linux.
>> I have had a Canon Pixma Printer, It did not work for Lunix.
>>    
>>
>
>I never liked Lexmark printers.  The ones I've used had bad paper
>handling and always skewed the printing.  Their Linux SDK only
>supports a few models.  I'm not sure if their other models require
>binary blobs that aren't in the SDK or no independant developers like
>their products enough to bother adding support for them.
>
>  
>
>> I do know that HP has tools for OpenSuse, and I walk in to a Big LOTS, and there is a Deskjet D1415  for $26.00. There are similar models selling at Best Buy, and other stores for 69.00.  The only thing you have to deal with is that it does not come with is that you need to get black ink, it just comes with color.
>>    
>>
>
>That model isn't listed on HP's support site.  Maybe it's an OEM
>model.  I only found a forum post at Ubuntu about it not printing
>correctly.
>____________
>
My Lexmark is a color laser printer on the net with postscript, so works 
well with Linux. It also has great quality so I am very happy with it. 
Ink jets are like a cell phone - the device is almost free but the use 
of it will cost you dearly. (Ink, especially if it has a chip in the 
cartridge so you need to buy a zapper and hope it resets it when you 
refill it)


-dave
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug






      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping


From tcameron at redhat.com  Mon Mar 17 17:25:27 2008
From: tcameron at redhat.com (Thomas Cameron (Red Hat))
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 16:25:27 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
In-Reply-To: <700572.70720.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <700572.70720.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <47DEE1C7.6090909@redhat.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

David Lane wrote:
| I have had a Lexmark printer, It did not work for Linux.
| I have had a Canon Pixma Printer, It did not work for Lunix.
|
| I do know that HP has tools for OpenSuse, and I walk in to a Big LOTS,
and there is a Deskjet D1415  for $26.00. There are similar models
selling at Best Buy, and other stores for 69.00.  The only thing you
have to deal with is that it does not come with is that you need to get
black ink, it just comes with color.

I have been looking for a fast black and white printer for home and I've
learned a couple of things...

You have to be *really* careful about buying a "cheap" printer.  In many
cases the printer vendors have learned Gilette's lesson - give away the
razor and charge for the blades.  You can get printers for next to
nothing these days, but the ink can kick your butt in cost.  Expensive
cartridges that don't last very long to not make a cheap printer.  :-(

I haven't really looked at that printer for ink prices, just a word to
the wise.
- --
Thomas Cameron, RHCE, RHCX, CNE, MCSE, MCT
Solutions Architect Team Lead, Central Region
512-241-0774 office / 512-585-5631 cell / 512-857-1345 fax

Red Hat rated #1 in value by CIOs for four years running:
http://www.redhat.com/about/news/prarchive/2007/CIO_Insight_Study.html
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFH3uHHmzle50YHwaARAp8fAJ4nlVQRjLVvEahYaq0Ck//eZy5zEACbBDXk
3ee04qunCjX8BTkviEiK9oQ=
=2OsA
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From tcameron at redhat.com  Mon Mar 17 17:32:39 2008
From: tcameron at redhat.com (Thomas Cameron (Red Hat))
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 16:32:39 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] mplayer full screen
In-Reply-To: <a803558d0803131553i182c56eh6ab46a3d91e77f5b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a803558d0803131553i182c56eh6ab46a3d91e77f5b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47DEE377.6000201@redhat.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Deepan Chakravarthy wrote:
| Hi,
|   When I play movies in my Fedora 8 system using mplayer, the movie is
| rendered only in a small portion of the screen. Even with full screen
| option, it does not render in full screen. How do I fix it ?
|

Rename your ~/.mplayer directory to something like ~/.mplayer.old and
retry it.  Mplayer will set some defaults based on what your display is
like.  If you've changed your display, you might want to start over fresh.

- --
Thomas Cameron, RHCE, RHCX, CNE, MCSE, MCT
Solutions Architect Team Lead, Central Region
512-241-0774 office / 512-585-5631 cell / 512-857-1345 fax

Red Hat rated #1 in value by CIOs for four years running:
http://www.redhat.com/about/news/prarchive/2007/CIO_Insight_Study.html
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFH3uN3mzle50YHwaARAklSAKCA2Ju6ESXduIy3kFTKEJAKpeBNsgCcCJn3
yT5z+ISLEIGDrpaRYv9X9Sg=
=YV0v
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 17 17:58:28 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 14:58:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
Message-ID: <720951.14149.qm@web37915.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

For printers your cost is the ink. 

Digital Photography has made it cost less.  

But As I said before I had a really tough time finding a printer that would work with My Linux Stations.

FYI I: just got an email from MicroCenter and it looks like they are liquidating  CompUSA's stock.  The thing is, I scout  out resources so that when I do buy I know what I'm buying and I know what the Market is doing.  Yes, There were a few buys that I was not 100% happy with that is were we learn.  

I'm happy I found newegg.com to cross reference Prices an model numbers.  

----- Original Message ----
From: Thomas Cameron (Red Hat) <tcameron at redhat.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 5:25:27 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

David Lane wrote:
| I have had a Lexmark printer, It did not work for Linux.
| I have had a Canon Pixma Printer, It did not work for Lunix.
|
| I do know that HP has tools for OpenSuse, and I walk in to a Big LOTS,
and there is a Deskjet D1415  for $26.00. There are similar models
selling at Best Buy, and other stores for 69.00.  The only thing you
have to deal with is that it does not come with is that you need to get
black ink, it just comes with color.

I have been looking for a fast black and white printer for home and I've
learned a couple of things...

You have to be *really* careful about buying a "cheap" printer.  In many
cases the printer vendors have learned Gilette's lesson - give away the
razor and charge for the blades.  You can get printers for next to
nothing these days, but the ink can kick your butt in cost.  Expensive
cartridges that don't last very long to not make a cheap printer.  :-(

I haven't really looked at that printer for ink prices, just a word to
the wise.
- --
Thomas Cameron, RHCE, RHCX, CNE, MCSE, MCT
Solutions Architect Team Lead, Central Region
512-241-0774 office / 512-585-5631 cell / 512-857-1345 fax

Red Hat rated #1 in value by CIOs for four years running:
http://www.redhat.com/about/news/prarchive/2007/CIO_Insight_Study.html
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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3ee04qunCjX8BTkviEiK9oQ=
=2OsA
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug






      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Mon Mar 17 18:43:18 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:43:18 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
In-Reply-To: <700572.70720.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <700572.70720.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <47DEF406.7020300@hotpop.com>

David Lane wrote:
> I have had a Lexmark printer, It did not work for Linux. 
> I have had a Canon Pixma Printer, It did not work for Lunix. 
> 
> I do know that HP has tools for OpenSuse, and I walk in to a Big LOTS, and there is a Deskjet D1415  for $26.00. There are similar models selling at Best Buy, and other stores for 69.00.  The only thing you have to deal with is that it does not come with is that you need to get black ink, it just comes with color.
> 

Which Big Lots?




From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 17 18:51:45 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 15:51:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
Message-ID: <570605.11064.qm@web37909.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I'm currently in New York. But It looks like they get the same stock and spread it across the nation.

I normally check once a week or 2 weeks.  you can find good deals on paper and photo paper too.

David 

----- Original Message ----
From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis3 at hotpop.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 6:43:18 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?

David Lane wrote:
> I have had a Lexmark printer, It did not work for Linux. 
> I have had a Canon Pixma Printer, It did not work for Lunix. 
> 
> I do know that HP has tools for OpenSuse, and I walk in to a Big LOTS, and there is a Deskjet D1415  for $26.00. There are similar models selling at Best Buy, and other stores for 69.00.  The only thing you have to deal with is that it does not come with is that you need to get black ink, it just comes with color.
> 

Which Big Lots?


_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug





__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From jbroughton at twmi.rr.com  Mon Mar 17 20:40:58 2008
From: jbroughton at twmi.rr.com (Jim)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 20:40:58 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Anyone familiar with Qmail. I need some help.
Message-ID: <47DF0F9A.60707@twmi.rr.com>

I run a Qmail server using netqmail-1.05. This server has been running 
along fine until
about the last 3 months. Now I find myself in a never ending pit of 
spam. I have firewalled off about 10 different
countries in there entirety. I have throttled NEW email connections to 
about 3 per minute per IP address
via the firewall. I use spamdyke to handle the RBL DNS block lists as 
well as local blocklists.  For some reason
and I am not sure why I am still getting a gazillion bounces.  What is 
weird  is  is that  these  bounces are not
even targeted at my  domain. I call them bounce spam. I have been over 
my qmail configs files till I cannot stand looking
at them. For some reason my system is not rejecting these emails but is 
instead feeding them into the bounce facility.
It's driving me nuts as it pretty much hangs up outgoing mail while 
qmail-remote trys to send out the bounces. Sometimes thousands at a time 
are hung up in the queue not to mention the thousands of double bounces 
that are in my mailbox as well. I can delete the messages in the queue 
but this wipes out legitimate outgoing email as well.
Has anyone seen this problem or have experience with it? I'm baffled.


Jim B.




From jbroughton at twmi.rr.com  Mon Mar 17 21:03:33 2008
From: jbroughton at twmi.rr.com (Jim)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 21:03:33 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Anyone familiar with Qmail. I need some help.
In-Reply-To: <47DF0F9A.60707@twmi.rr.com>
References: <47DF0F9A.60707@twmi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <47DF14E5.9060208@twmi.rr.com>

Jim wrote:
> I run a Qmail server using netqmail-1.05. This server has been running 
> along fine until
> about the last 3 months. Now I find myself in a never ending pit of 
> spam. I have firewalled off about 10 different
> countries in there entirety. I have throttled NEW email connections to 
> about 3 per minute per IP address
> via the firewall. I use spamdyke to handle the RBL DNS block lists as 
> well as local blocklists.  For some reason
> and I am not sure why I am still getting a gazillion bounces.  What is 
> weird  is  is that  these  bounces are not
> even targeted at my  domain. I call them bounce spam. I have been over 
> my qmail configs files till I cannot stand looking
> at them. For some reason my system is not rejecting these emails but is 
> instead feeding them into the bounce facility.
> It's driving me nuts as it pretty much hangs up outgoing mail while 
> qmail-remote trys to send out the bounces. Sometimes thousands at a time 
> are hung up in the queue not to mention the thousands of double bounces 
> that are in my mailbox as well. I can delete the messages in the queue 
> but this wipes out legitimate outgoing email as well.
> Has anyone seen this problem or have experience with it? I'm baffled.
>
>
> Jim B.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>   
Oh yes and I have made sure that the system is NOT an OPEN relay.

Jim B.



From ebielaczyc at gmail.com  Mon Mar 17 21:13:32 2008
From: ebielaczyc at gmail.com (Ein Bielaczyc)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 21:13:32 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Anyone familiar with Qmail. I need some help.
In-Reply-To: <47DF14E5.9060208@twmi.rr.com>
References: <47DF0F9A.60707@twmi.rr.com> <47DF14E5.9060208@twmi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <ba6f3ba00803171813x96fc08dja3ed109cd114aa70@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 9:03 PM, Jim <jbroughton at twmi.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Jim wrote:
>  > I run a Qmail server using netqmail-1.05. This server has been running
>  > along fine until
>  > about the last 3 months. Now I find myself in a never ending pit of
>  > spam. I have firewalled off about 10 different
>  > countries in there entirety. I have throttled NEW email connections to
>  > about 3 per minute per IP address
>  > via the firewall. I use spamdyke to handle the RBL DNS block lists as
>  > well as local blocklists.  For some reason
>  > and I am not sure why I am still getting a gazillion bounces.  What is
>  > weird  is  is that  these  bounces are not
>  > even targeted at my  domain. I call them bounce spam. I have been over
>  > my qmail configs files till I cannot stand looking
>  > at them. For some reason my system is not rejecting these emails but is
>  > instead feeding them into the bounce facility.
>  > It's driving me nuts as it pretty much hangs up outgoing mail while
>  > qmail-remote trys to send out the bounces. Sometimes thousands at a time
>  > are hung up in the queue not to mention the thousands of double bounces
>  > that are in my mailbox as well. I can delete the messages in the queue
>  > but this wipes out legitimate outgoing email as well.
>  > Has anyone seen this problem or have experience with it? I'm baffled.
>  >
>  Oh yes and I have made sure that the system is NOT an OPEN relay.
>
>
>
>  Jim B.

I have some experience with Qmail. I've run with Qmail-Toaster for
sometime. Though I've never used SpamDyke I have seriously considered
it as the Toaster doesn't yet have GreyListing support.

But I think more information is necessary. Can you send copies of your
tcp.smtp rules, and excerpts from the appropriate logs showing message
processing.

It doesn't make much sense that Qmail would accept a message for a
domain it shouldn't. At least that's not a situation I've ever
experienced.


-- 
Ein Bielaczyc <ebielaczyc at gmail.com>

NOTICE: This E-mail (including attachments) is covered by the
Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C.2510-2521, is
confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention,
dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is
strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received
the message in error, then delete it.


From tony at bemushosting.com  Mon Mar 17 21:21:18 2008
From: tony at bemushosting.com (Tony Bemus)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 21:21:18 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
In-Reply-To: <570605.11064.qm@web37909.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <570605.11064.qm@web37909.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1205803278.15168.31.camel@bemus-tony.bemus>

I would be careful with this printer.  A quick google search found a
Ubuntu user that had a problem with the same printer.
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=707482

I normal will only use HP printer,  Mine is a HP PSC2110 and it worked
with out me having to do anything!  Ubuntu 7.10 recognized it and
installed everything and I can scan and print.

Just my thoughts

Tony Bemus



On Mon, 2008-03-17 at 15:51 -0700, David Lane wrote:

> I'm currently in New York. But It looks like they get the same stock and spread it across the nation.
> 
> I normally check once a week or 2 weeks.  you can find good deals on paper and photo paper too.
> 
> David 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis3 at hotpop.com>
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 6:43:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
> 
> David Lane wrote:
> > I have had a Lexmark printer, It did not work for Linux. 
> > I have had a Canon Pixma Printer, It did not work for Lunix. 
> > 
> > I do know that HP has tools for OpenSuse, and I walk in to a Big LOTS, and there is a Deskjet D1415  for $26.00. There are similar models selling at Best Buy, and other stores for 69.00.  The only thing you have to deal with is that it does not come with is that you need to get black ink, it just comes with color.
> > 
> 
> Which Big Lots?
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From micorral at comcast.net  Mon Mar 17 22:24:59 2008
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 22:24:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
In-Reply-To: <47DEE1C7.6090909@redhat.com>
References: <700572.70720.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<47DEE1C7.6090909@redhat.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.1.00.0803172213050.11230@banana.sluggo.net>

2008-03-17, Monsieur Thomas Cameron (Red Hat) a ecrit:
> I have been looking for a fast black and white printer for home and I've
> learned a couple of things...
>
> You have to be *really* careful about buying a "cheap" printer.

The old HP laserjets are still the best for black&white, IMO.

I got an old HP Laserjet 4 Plus from work for free, they scrapped it
because we got some of those new big Xerox printer/copier/fax things.
I've been using it for over a year now, it's been great. The print
quality is so good. And you can get cheap ink cartridges for it on the
interweb (about 1/3 the official retail price). I've seen some local
places selling old used HP laserjets for cheap, I think that's the way
to go.

Michael


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Mon Mar 17 21:27:01 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 21:27:01 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
In-Reply-To: <47DEE1C7.6090909@redhat.com>
References: <700572.70720.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<47DEE1C7.6090909@redhat.com>
Message-ID: <47DF1A65.5000908@hotpop.com>

Thomas Cameron (Red Hat) wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> David Lane wrote:
> | I have had a Lexmark printer, It did not work for Linux.
> | I have had a Canon Pixma Printer, It did not work for Lunix.
> |
> | I do know that HP has tools for OpenSuse, and I walk in to a Big LOTS,
> and there is a Deskjet D1415  for $26.00. There are similar models
> selling at Best Buy, and other stores for 69.00.  The only thing you
> have to deal with is that it does not come with is that you need to get
> black ink, it just comes with color.
> 
> I have been looking for a fast black and white printer for home and I've
> learned a couple of things...
> 
> You have to be *really* careful about buying a "cheap" printer.  In many
> cases the printer vendors have learned Gilette's lesson - give away the
> razor and charge for the blades.  You can get printers for next to
> nothing these days, but the ink can kick your butt in cost.  Expensive
> cartridges that don't last very long to not make a cheap printer.  :-(
> 
> I haven't really looked at that printer for ink prices, just a word to
> the wise.

For fast black and white, I would look into a used laser printer.
Toner powder is cheap.




From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Mon Mar 17 22:29:17 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 22:29:17 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Anyone familiar with Qmail. I need some help.
In-Reply-To: <47DF0F9A.60707@twmi.rr.com>
References: <47DF0F9A.60707@twmi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <47DF28FD.3000305@hotpop.com>

Jim wrote:
> I run a Qmail server using netqmail-1.05. This server has been running 
> along fine until
> about the last 3 months. Now I find myself in a never ending pit of 
> spam. I have firewalled off about 10 different
> countries in there entirety. I have throttled NEW email connections to 
> about 3 per minute per IP address
> via the firewall. I use spamdyke to handle the RBL DNS block lists as 
> well as local blocklists.  For some reason
> and I am not sure why I am still getting a gazillion bounces.  What is 
> weird  is  is that  these  bounces are not
> even targeted at my  domain. I call them bounce spam. I have been over 
> my qmail configs files till I cannot stand looking
> at them. For some reason my system is not rejecting these emails but is 
> instead feeding them into the bounce facility.
> It's driving me nuts as it pretty much hangs up outgoing mail while 
> qmail-remote trys to send out the bounces. Sometimes thousands at a time 
> are hung up in the queue not to mention the thousands of double bounces 
> that are in my mailbox as well. I can delete the messages in the queue 
> but this wipes out legitimate outgoing email as well.
> Has anyone seen this problem or have experience with it? I'm baffled.
> 

I sympathize with you Jim...but frankly, the formatting
on this whole thing makes it aggravating as heck to read.
Especially the lines that are too long
and then take up half a line before going onto the next
line in the middle of a paragraph
It's really really SUPER annoying to just about everyone.
So set your line length to about the 65-70 character range.
The lack of paragraph breaks (or even indentations)
also impede reader comprehension.

In the future, please keep in mind that the purpose of
writing to the list is for others to read your message,
and then write and format so that it's as easy as possible
for the rest of us to read what you wrote.

Otherwise, all you're doing is wasting your own time.




From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 17 23:46:43 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 20:46:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
Message-ID: <276720.92793.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Currently I have My eyes on the HP 2605nd Color Laser Duplexing Networked. 

I have tp plan for it because it runs from 449 - 499. 

David 


----- Original Message ----
From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis3 at hotpop.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 9:27:01 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?

Thomas Cameron (Red Hat) wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> David Lane wrote:
> | I have had a Lexmark printer, It did not work for Linux.
> | I have had a Canon Pixma Printer, It did not work for Lunix.
> |
> | I do know that HP has tools for OpenSuse, and I walk in to a Big LOTS,
> and there is a Deskjet D1415  for $26.00. There are similar models
> selling at Best Buy, and other stores for 69.00.  The only thing you
> have to deal with is that it does not come with is that you need to get
> black ink, it just comes with color.
> 
> I have been looking for a fast black and white printer for home and I've
> learned a couple of things...
> 
> You have to be *really* careful about buying a "cheap" printer.  In many
> cases the printer vendors have learned Gilette's lesson - give away the
> razor and charge for the blades.  You can get printers for next to
> nothing these days, but the ink can kick your butt in cost.  Expensive
> cartridges that don't last very long to not make a cheap printer.  :-(
> 
> I haven't really looked at that printer for ink prices, just a word to
> the wise.

For fast black and white, I would look into a used laser printer.
Toner powder is cheap.


_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


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From brian at dangerbacon.com  Tue Mar 18 00:30:53 2008
From: brian at dangerbacon.com (Brian)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 00:30:53 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
In-Reply-To: <1205803278.15168.31.camel@bemus-tony.bemus>
References: <570605.11064.qm@web37909.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<1205803278.15168.31.camel@bemus-tony.bemus>
Message-ID: <200803180030.56282.brian@dangerbacon.com>

On Monday 17 March 2008 09:21:18 pm Tony Bemus wrote:
> I would be careful with this printer.  A quick google search found a
> Ubuntu user that had a problem with the same printer.
> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=707482
>
> I normal will only use HP printer,  Mine is a HP PSC2110 and it worked
> with out me having to do anything!  Ubuntu 7.10 recognized it and
> installed everything and I can scan and print.
>

Seconded, everything works perfectly with my HP PSC2410 as well.

-- 
Brian
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From tcameron at redhat.com  Tue Mar 18 00:31:51 2008
From: tcameron at redhat.com (Thomas Cameron (Red Hat))
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 23:31:51 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.1.00.0803172213050.11230@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <700572.70720.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<47DEE1C7.6090909@redhat.com>
	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0803172213050.11230@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <47DF45B7.2090009@redhat.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Michael Corral wrote:
| 2008-03-17, Monsieur Thomas Cameron (Red Hat) a ecrit:
|> I have been looking for a fast black and white printer for home and I've
|> learned a couple of things...
|>
|> You have to be *really* careful about buying a "cheap" printer.
|
| The old HP laserjets are still the best for black&white, IMO.
|
| I got an old HP Laserjet 4 Plus from work for free, they scrapped it
| because we got some of those new big Xerox printer/copier/fax things.
| I've been using it for over a year now, it's been great. The print
| quality is so good. And you can get cheap ink cartridges for it on the
| interweb (about 1/3 the official retail price). I've seen some local
| places selling old used HP laserjets for cheap, I think that's the way
| to go.

I actually have an ancient LaserJet 4.  When I use the Linux Printing
Project PPD for it it is painfully slow - like 4ppm.  I read others were
having speed issues and "downgraded" to the LaserJet 3 definition to
speed it up.  I tried it and I am getting better speed, like 8-12 ppm
but I am interested in the new printers that do like 30-40 ppm black and
white.  The LaserJet 4 will never go that fast.
- --
Thomas Cameron, RHCE, RHCX, CNE, MCSE, MCT
Solutions Architect Team Lead, Central Region
512-241-0774 office / 512-585-5631 cell / 512-857-1345 fax

Red Hat rated #1 in value by CIOs for four years running:
http://www.redhat.com/about/news/prarchive/2007/CIO_Insight_Study.html
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFH30W3mzle50YHwaARAnm7AJ9EyX4fuaiYzLzWVeINcQzjFWTxYgCdH4u+
fmVTpGVRMIfvhGeKGeOYBvo=
=vAec
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From tesral at comcast.net  Tue Mar 18 01:10:59 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 01:10:59 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Forensic tools for photo manipulation
Message-ID: <47DF4EE3.2090308@comcast.net>

In light of our recent presentation an interesting if not totally
informative article on the direction digital forensic tools are heading.

http://www.technologyreview.com/Infotech/20423/?a=f

"Tools that analyze lighting are particularly useful because "lighting
is hard to fake" without leaving a trace, says Micah Kimo Johnson
<http://www.mit.edu/%7Ekimo/home/index.html>, a researcher in the brain-
and cognitive-sciences department at MIT, whose work includes designing
tools for digital forensics."

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From carl at carltm.com  Tue Mar 18 05:58:51 2008
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 05:58:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Anyone familiar with Qmail. I need some help.
In-Reply-To: <47DF0F9A.60707@twmi.rr.com>
References: <47DF0F9A.60707@twmi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <26518.216.144.215.245.1205834331.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

Jim wrote:
> I run a Qmail server using netqmail-1.05. This server has been running
> along fine until
> about the last 3 months. Now I find myself in a never ending pit of
> spam.

Jim, do you have any kind of web based form that generates
email?  What may be happening is that someone is sending
bad data to that form to generate email that appears to
come from other domains.  The remote server would send
qmail an undeliverable message, perhaps mentioning either
the fake source domain or the intended destination domain.
You would then receive the bounced mail message.

You may want to set up a sniffer to see what all connections
are leaving your server.

c




From peter at petertheplumber.net  Tue Mar 18 06:26:15 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 06:26:15 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
In-Reply-To: <276720.92793.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <276720.92793.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1205835975.29597.4.camel@peter-notebook.site>


On Mon, 2008-03-17 at 20:46 -0700, David Lane wrote:
> Currently I have My eyes on the HP 2605nd Color Laser Duplexing Networked. 
> 
> I have tp plan for it because it runs from 449 - 499. 
> 
> David 

Oooooooooh, shiney pretty I want ;) But seriously, my next one will be a
color laser. After spitting up the bucks for a Brother mono laser with
sheet feeder years ago, I'm never going back. Toner is cheap but I've
never replaced a cartridge yet. I would look at Brother again only
because they do provide drivers in rpm and deb and detailed instructions
on how to install. It's not as painless as HP though.

Best Regards,
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From relson at osagesoftware.com  Tue Mar 18 07:29:28 2008
From: relson at osagesoftware.com (David Relson)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 07:29:28 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
In-Reply-To: <1205835975.29597.4.camel@peter-notebook.site>
References: <276720.92793.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<1205835975.29597.4.camel@peter-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <20080318072928.19e62736@osage.osagesoftware.com>

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 06:26:15 -0400
Peter Bart wrote:

> 
> On Mon, 2008-03-17 at 20:46 -0700, David Lane wrote:
> > Currently I have My eyes on the HP 2605nd Color Laser Duplexing
> > Networked. 
> > 
> > I have tp plan for it because it runs from 449 - 499. 
> > 
> > David 
> 
> Oooooooooh, shiney pretty I want ;) But seriously, my next one will
> be a color laser. After spitting up the bucks for a Brother mono
> laser with sheet feeder years ago, I'm never going back. Toner is
> cheap but I've never replaced a cartridge yet. I would look at
> Brother again only because they do provide drivers in rpm and deb and
> detailed instructions on how to install. It's not as painless as HP
> though.

I've got a Brother networked black & white printer.  It works well
except for printing envelopes which feed in skewed.  

My old LaserJet did much better on envelopes but didn't have Linux
drivers hence was (generally) less useful.


From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Tue Mar 18 08:29:04 2008
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 08:29:04 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Export homedirs via NFS and Samba?
Message-ID: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE054BA50B@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

Is this a common setup?  I have an NFS/Samba server set up.  I am
currently exporting users' home directories.  I want the users to be
able to mount their home directories on UNIX or Windows, but here is the
issue I am having.  The server is joined to the domain MI.  I can export
/home/gwojtak via NFS just fine.  I can export [homes] in Samba just
fine.  The problem comes up with permissions - UNIX, of course just sets
ownership to gwojtak on newly created files.  If I try to access my home
directory via Samba, it is getting the expected winbind mangling,
'MI+gwojtak' and permission is denied to even pull up the UNC.  Changing
the ownership on the Samba server on /home/gwojtak to MI+gwojtak makes
it work properly on Windows, but then breaks NFS ownerships.

Is this not a good setup?  What am I doing wrong, or should I not even
be doing this?  It seems to me that this would be a common
implementation?  This is a Red HATE Enterprise Linux 5.1 server.


Thanks!

-- 
Greg Wojtak
http://www.yesthatsright.net/


From radkins at impelind.com  Tue Mar 18 08:32:38 2008
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 08:32:38 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Export homedirs via NFS and Samba?
In-Reply-To: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE054BA50B@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
Message-ID: <20080318123208.B5CEFC0CA@impelind.com>

Use Access Control Lists.

The Filesystem should definitely support that, just tweak that on the server
to support both the UNIX and the Domain permissions and away you go. (Or at
least, that's the theory...)

-Rob


> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Wojtak, Greg
> Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 8:29 AM
> To: mdlug at mdlug.org
> Subject: [mdlug] Export homedirs via NFS and Samba?
> 
> Is this a common setup?  I have an NFS/Samba server set up.  
> I am currently exporting users' home directories.  I want the 
> users to be able to mount their home directories on UNIX or 
> Windows, but here is the issue I am having.  The server is 
> joined to the domain MI.  I can export /home/gwojtak via NFS 
> just fine.  I can export [homes] in Samba just fine.  The 
> problem comes up with permissions - UNIX, of course just sets 
> ownership to gwojtak on newly created files.  If I try to 
> access my home directory via Samba, it is getting the 
> expected winbind mangling, 'MI+gwojtak' and permission is 
> denied to even pull up the UNC.  Changing the ownership on 
> the Samba server on /home/gwojtak to MI+gwojtak makes it work 
> properly on Windows, but then breaks NFS ownerships.
> 
> Is this not a good setup?  What am I doing wrong, or should I 
> not even be doing this?  It seems to me that this would be a 
> common implementation?  This is a Red HATE Enterprise Linux 
> 5.1 server.
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> --
> Greg Wojtak
> http://www.yesthatsright.net/
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 



From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 18 09:18:28 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 06:18:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
Message-ID: <267508.61070.qm@web37902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Duplex printing is important you save a bit of paper.  And there are a few cheaper laser printers that go fast the 1022 comes to mind.

David 


----- Original Message ----
From: Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 6:26:15 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?


On Mon, 2008-03-17 at 20:46 -0700, David Lane wrote:
> Currently I have My eyes on the HP 2605nd Color Laser Duplexing Networked. 
> 
> I have tp plan for it because it runs from 449 - 499. 
> 
> David 

Oooooooooh, shiney pretty I want ;) But seriously, my next one will be a
color laser. After spitting up the bucks for a Brother mono laser with
sheet feeder years ago, I'm never going back. Toner is cheap but I've
never replaced a cartridge yet. I would look at Brother again only
because they do provide drivers in rpm and deb and detailed instructions
on how to install. It's not as painless as HP though.

Best Regards,
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug






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From wolfger at gmail.com  Tue Mar 18 10:01:15 2008
From: wolfger at gmail.com (Wolfger)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 10:01:15 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Fwd: [Detroit-pm] Summer of Perl -- call for student
	proposals
In-Reply-To: <47DFB6F5.7060709@techrg.com>
References: <47DFB6F5.7060709@techrg.com>
Message-ID: <3b00b3330803180701g78f5ef46n6921e6f819e90381@mail.gmail.com>

FYI, if anybody is interested, or knows people in college who are interested.


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Bill Hess <bhess at techrg.com>
Date: Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 8:35 AM
Subject: [Detroit-pm] [pm_groups] Summer of Perl -- call for student proposals
To: detroit-pm at pm.org


Hi all,  Please forward this to your groups.  (Also feel free to break
 into a discussion as to whether or how students are involved in the
 perl community, what we can do to connect with more universities and
 etc.)


 The Perl Foundation is participating in Google's 2008 Summer of Code(tm)
 and we have a lot of capable, willing mentors looking forward to working
 with some talented, driven students.  So, we would like you to help
 find those students (and quickly -- the students must apply before
 March 24th.)

 This is a rare opportunity for students to get a chance to get a paid
 summer of hacking on exciting projects like Parrot, Perl 6, Moose,
 Jifty, SVK, Catalyst, or their very own Perl modules or applications.
 It also brings new talent into the community and gives the student a
 hefty "real world" experience with a knowledgable mentor.  Further,
 employers love to see this sort of demonstration of teamwork, handling
 deadlines, communication skills, resourcefulness and etc.

 We're looking for promising students who are interested in open source
 (or maybe you know someone who *should* be interested in open source.)
 Knowledge of Perl is optional if the project is Parrot-related.  The
 student doesn't need to be an expert in the problem domain (after all,
 learning is part of the process), but should bring a big pile of
 creativity, problem-solving skills, and determination.

 Students should review the page of suggested projects, but are
 encouraged to bring their own proposals (those are often the best.)
 The most important first step is getting in touch with the community
 and discussing their project idea with potential mentors.

   http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl5/index.cgi?gsoc2008_projects

 Additional information and links can be found here.

   http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl5/index.cgi?gsoc2008

 Google has posted some flyers if you happen to have a university
 bulletin board or hallway handy:

   http://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code/wiki/GsocFlyers

 Additional info:

   http://code.google.com/soc/2008/
   http://code.google.com/soc/2008/faqs.html

 (Note that google has particular requirements to do with the fact that
 they are paying the students.  The student must be able to show their
 eligibility regarding enrollment and employability.)

 Remember, the Perl community draws talent from many fields, so if you
 came to Perl from a non-computer-science major and still have contacts
 in that department from your university, it is probably worth
 mentioning to them.

 Thanks,
 Eric
 --
 Request pm.org Technical Support via support at pm.org

 pm_groups mailing list
 pm_groups at pm.org
 http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/pm_groups

 _______________________________________________
 Detroit-pm mailing list
 Detroit-pm at pm.org
 http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/detroit-pm



-- 
Wolfger
http://wolfger.wordpress.com/
AOL IM: wolf4coyot
Yahoo!Messenger: wolfgersilberbaer


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Tue Mar 18 13:24:58 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:24:58 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] New MB passes the smoke test
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654C7@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

Got the parts assembled last night. I've given up on the SB Live, at least for
now - the Geforce 8600 GT video card's heatsink/fan sticks out far enough to
cover the neighboring PCI slot. I still don't have all the drives hooked up
yet (Garry, you still have that IDE controller?) but it boots and, with only one
CPU fan, is noticeably quieter than the old system.

 I was using an Ubuntu 7.10 live CD to test things, and there were a couple of
problems. It didn't get a network address (a bit of Googling indicates I can just
'restart' the networking and it should work) and apparently there's a bug in the
'powernowd' daemon that throttles the CPUs at all times. Both issues should be
workable. I still have to run memtest86 for a while, and make sure the RAM is
good - I got bitten badly by faulty laptop RAM once - but it looks good.

 I've got a spare 16GB partition I can install to for now, until I get both
drives going and can juggle some space around. Can't wait to get things really
going and do a test of the 3D card. :->

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                 (313) 227-2317

 The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable
  operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying
          to take over the world.  - Drakmere
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Tue Mar 18 13:54:58 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:54:58 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
In-Reply-To: <1205835975.29597.4.camel@peter-notebook.site>
References: <276720.92793.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<1205835975.29597.4.camel@peter-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803181054w78a25a41n6b8106bce0da8143@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 6:26 AM, Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:
>  Oooooooooh, shiney pretty I want ;) But seriously, my next one will be a
>  color laser. After spitting up the bucks for a Brother mono laser with
>  sheet feeder years ago, I'm never going back. Toner is cheap but I've
>  never replaced a cartridge yet. I would look at Brother again only
>  because they do provide drivers in rpm and deb and detailed instructions
>  on how to install. It's not as painless as HP though.

The printers I bought last fall during the Black Friday sales all worked well:
http://jhansonxi.blogspot.com/2007/11/my-linux-aspected-black-friday-assault.html

The Brother and HP inkjets had network support so they were easy.  I
had some trouble with getting the Samsung CLP-300 working on Ubuntu
Gutsy but Hardy has a open-source driver and all I did was plug it in.
 Color quality was adequate but all I've done so far is print a couple
of Penguicon posters.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Tue Mar 18 13:59:58 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:59:58 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] [OT]Facebook app
In-Reply-To: <58a4cf91ec77fd0665e1b641444095cd@localhost.localdomain>
References: <58a4cf91ec77fd0665e1b641444095cd@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803181059v5fe41b0fl7efb6d6716be4e91@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 5:42 AM, Deepan <codeshepherd at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
>  I just wrote a facebook application for playing
>  Sudoku.
>
>  Those interested..
>  http://apps.facebook.com/sudokusolver/
>
>  For non-facebook users:
>  http://www.sudoku-solver.net/

Nifty.  Now just make a 3D version.


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 18 14:01:32 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 11:01:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
Message-ID: <326095.40724.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

The photo Quality of the $26.00 HP was great.  

David 


----- Original Message ----
From: Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 1:54:58 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?

On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 6:26 AM, Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:
>  Oooooooooh, shiney pretty I want ;) But seriously, my next one will be a
>  color laser. After spitting up the bucks for a Brother mono laser with
>  sheet feeder years ago, I'm never going back. Toner is cheap but I've
>  never replaced a cartridge yet. I would look at Brother again only
>  because they do provide drivers in rpm and deb and detailed instructions
>  on how to install. It's not as painless as HP though.

The printers I bought last fall during the Black Friday sales all worked well:
http://jhansonxi.blogspot.com/2007/11/my-linux-aspected-black-friday-assault.html

The Brother and HP inkjets had network support so they were easy.  I
had some trouble with getting the Samsung CLP-300 working on Ubuntu
Gutsy but Hardy has a open-source driver and all I did was plug it in.
 Color quality was adequate but all I've done so far is print a couple
of Penguicon posters.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug






      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


From tcameron at redhat.com  Tue Mar 18 15:21:19 2008
From: tcameron at redhat.com (Thomas Cameron (Red Hat))
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:21:19 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Export homedirs via NFS and Samba?
In-Reply-To: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE054BA50B@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
References: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE054BA50B@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
Message-ID: <47E0162F.1070408@redhat.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Wojtak, Greg wrote:
| Is this a common setup?  I have an NFS/Samba server set up.  I am
| currently exporting users' home directories.  I want the users to be
| able to mount their home directories on UNIX or Windows, but here is the
| issue I am having.  The server is joined to the domain MI.  I can export
| /home/gwojtak via NFS just fine.  I can export [homes] in Samba just
| fine.  The problem comes up with permissions - UNIX, of course just sets
| ownership to gwojtak on newly created files.  If I try to access my home
| directory via Samba, it is getting the expected winbind mangling,
| 'MI+gwojtak' and permission is denied to even pull up the UNC.  Changing
| the ownership on the Samba server on /home/gwojtak to MI+gwojtak makes
| it work properly on Windows, but then breaks NFS ownerships.
|
| Is this not a good setup?  What am I doing wrong, or should I not even
| be doing this?  It seems to me that this would be a common
| implementation?  This is a Red HATE Enterprise Linux 5.1 server.

It's "Red Hat," not "Red HATE."

See http://people.redhat.com/tcameron for a step by step on how to set
up Samba and AD with ACLs on the filesystem.  It was written with Red
Hat Enterprise Linux 4 but it still works the same on Red Hat Enterprise
Linux 5.x.
- --
Thomas Cameron, RHCE, RHCX, CNE, MCSE, MCT
Solutions Architect Team Lead, Central Region
512-241-0774 office / 512-585-5631 cell / 512-857-1345 fax

Red Hat rated #1 in value by CIOs for four years running:
http://www.redhat.com/about/news/prarchive/2007/CIO_Insight_Study.html
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From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Tue Mar 18 16:08:37 2008
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 16:08:37 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Export homedirs via NFS and Samba?
In-Reply-To: <47E0162F.1070408@redhat.com>
References: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE054BA50B@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<47E0162F.1070408@redhat.com>
Message-ID: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE054BA601@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

'It's "Red Hat," not "Red HATE."'

Apologies - inside joke between a friend of mine and me and I typed it
inadvertently.

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Thomas Cameron (Red Hat)
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 3:21 PM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Export homedirs via NFS and Samba?

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Wojtak, Greg wrote:
| Is this a common setup?  I have an NFS/Samba server set up.  I am
| currently exporting users' home directories.  I want the users to be
| able to mount their home directories on UNIX or Windows, but here is
the
| issue I am having.  The server is joined to the domain MI.  I can
export
| /home/gwojtak via NFS just fine.  I can export [homes] in Samba just
| fine.  The problem comes up with permissions - UNIX, of course just
sets
| ownership to gwojtak on newly created files.  If I try to access my
home
| directory via Samba, it is getting the expected winbind mangling,
| 'MI+gwojtak' and permission is denied to even pull up the UNC.
Changing
| the ownership on the Samba server on /home/gwojtak to MI+gwojtak makes
| it work properly on Windows, but then breaks NFS ownerships.
|
| Is this not a good setup?  What am I doing wrong, or should I not even
| be doing this?  It seems to me that this would be a common
| implementation?  This is a Red HATE Enterprise Linux 5.1 server.

It's "Red Hat," not "Red HATE."

See http://people.redhat.com/tcameron for a step by step on how to set
up Samba and AD with ACLs on the filesystem.  It was written with Red
Hat Enterprise Linux 4 but it still works the same on Red Hat Enterprise
Linux 5.x.
- --
Thomas Cameron, RHCE, RHCX, CNE, MCSE, MCT
Solutions Architect Team Lead, Central Region
512-241-0774 office / 512-585-5631 cell / 512-857-1345 fax

Red Hat rated #1 in value by CIOs for four years running:
http://www.redhat.com/about/news/prarchive/2007/CIO_Insight_Study.html
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_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From Bhaskar at anitej.com  Tue Mar 18 18:28:30 2008
From: Bhaskar at anitej.com (Bhaskar Navaneetham)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:28:30 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Export homedirs via NFS and Samba?
In-Reply-To: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE054BA50B@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
References: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE054BA50B@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
Message-ID: <14d67c8d0803181528y7ce81e45o285ce725380e2186@mail.gmail.com>

In my experience with redhat 4.0 Enterprise, the winbind is mandatory to
keep the hybrid network such as you have. but the unfortunate part to me
even though  i have premium support, redhat is not useful ( or the engineer
may be ). So my suggestion try with winbind or if its absolutely critical,
call the redhat team to help for your by blocking their minimal support.

Best of luck.

Bhaskar

On 18/03/2008, Wojtak, Greg <GregWojtak at quickenloans.com> wrote:
>
> Is this a common setup?  I have an NFS/Samba server set up.  I am
> currently exporting users' home directories.  I want the users to be
> able to mount their home directories on UNIX or Windows, but here is the
> issue I am having.  The server is joined to the domain MI.  I can export
> /home/gwojtak via NFS just fine.  I can export [homes] in Samba just
> fine.  The problem comes up with permissions - UNIX, of course just sets
> ownership to gwojtak on newly created files.  If I try to access my home
> directory via Samba, it is getting the expected winbind mangling,
> 'MI+gwojtak' and permission is denied to even pull up the UNC.  Changing
> the ownership on the Samba server on /home/gwojtak to MI+gwojtak makes
> it work properly on Windows, but then breaks NFS ownerships.
>
> Is this not a good setup?  What am I doing wrong, or should I not even
> be doing this?  It seems to me that this would be a common
> implementation?  This is a Red HATE Enterprise Linux 5.1 server.
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> --
> Greg Wojtak
> http://www.yesthatsright.net/
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Tue Mar 18 19:39:49 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 19:39:49 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] HP Linux Printer At Big LOTS?
In-Reply-To: <20080318072928.19e62736@osage.osagesoftware.com>
References: <276720.92793.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<1205835975.29597.4.camel@peter-notebook.site>
	<20080318072928.19e62736@osage.osagesoftware.com>
Message-ID: <1205883589.29597.28.camel@peter-notebook.site>


On Tue, 2008-03-18 at 07:29 -0400, David Relson wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 06:26:15 -0400
> Peter Bart wrote:
> 
> > 
> > On Mon, 2008-03-17 at 20:46 -0700, David Lane wrote:
> > > Currently I have My eyes on the HP 2605nd Color Laser Duplexing
> > > Networked. 
> > > 
> > > I have tp plan for it because it runs from 449 - 499. 
> > > 
> > > David 
> > 
> > Oooooooooh, shiney pretty I want ;) But seriously, my next one will
> > be a color laser. After spitting up the bucks for a Brother mono
> > laser with sheet feeder years ago, I'm never going back. Toner is
> > cheap but I've never replaced a cartridge yet. I would look at
> > Brother again only because they do provide drivers in rpm and deb and
> > detailed instructions on how to install. It's not as painless as HP
> > though.
> 
> I've got a Brother networked black & white printer.  It works well
> except for printing envelopes which feed in skewed.  
> 
> My old LaserJet did much better on envelopes but didn't have Linux
> drivers hence was (generally) less useful.

	I've go a Brother DCP7020 that does okay on envelopes. I only
occasionally print an envelope so I use the sheet feed slot in the
front, not the tray for those. I'll get another multi or all in one
machine again. I love that scanner built in! I paid less than $200
several years ago and it's still going. I did replace a toner cartridge
once after all. I might go through a case and a half to two cases of
paper per year.


-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From lamber45 at msu.edu  Tue Mar 18 20:39:04 2008
From: lamber45 at msu.edu (David Lee Lambert)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 20:39:04 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Export homedirs via NFS and Samba?
References: <20080318123208.B5CEFC0CA@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <006901c88959$a2d9da60$090fa8c0@lmert.com>

Yes, that's a common setup, but if Greg has UNIX accounts for all users 
already,  why does he need winbind?

The "winbind trusted domains only" and "winbind trusted domains only" 
parameters sound like they might solve this kind of problem;  but I've never 
needed to use winbind.

Another possibility,  if his personal account is the only one with this 
problem,  is to edit /etc/passwd and change the uid for "gwojtak" to the one 
winbindd generated for "MI+gwojtak".  I have a computer where I sometimes 
want my home-directory to be local and sometimes want it to come in over 
NFS,  so I have a line in /etc/passwd "dLocal:1024:..." and a local path in 
the "home" column and another line "davidl:1024:...".


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert Adkins" <radkins at impelind.com>
To: "'MDLUG's Main discussion list'" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Export homedirs via NFS and Samba?


> Use Access Control Lists.
>
> The Filesystem should definitely support that, just tweak that on the 
> server
> to support both the UNIX and the Domain permissions and away you go. (Or 
> at
> least, that's the theory...)
>
> -Rob
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org
>> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Wojtak, Greg
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 8:29 AM
>> To: mdlug at mdlug.org
>> Subject: [mdlug] Export homedirs via NFS and Samba?
>>
>> Is this a common setup?  I have an NFS/Samba server set up.
>> I am currently exporting users' home directories.  I want the
>> users to be able to mount their home directories on UNIX or
>> Windows, but here is the issue I am having.  The server is
>> joined to the domain MI.  I can export /home/gwojtak via NFS
>> just fine.  I can export [homes] in Samba just fine.  The
>> problem comes up with permissions - UNIX, of course just sets
>> ownership to gwojtak on newly created files.  If I try to
>> access my home directory via Samba, it is getting the
>> expected winbind mangling, 'MI+gwojtak' and permission is
>> denied to even pull up the UNC.  Changing the ownership on
>> the Samba server on /home/gwojtak to MI+gwojtak makes it work
>> properly on Windows, but then breaks NFS ownerships.
>>
>> Is this not a good setup?  What am I doing wrong, or should I
>> not even be doing this?  It seems to me that this would be a
>> common implementation?  This is a Red HATE Enterprise Linux
>> 5.1 server.
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> --
>> Greg Wojtak
>> http://www.yesthatsright.net/
>> _______________________________________________
>> mdlug mailing list
>> mdlug at mdlug.org
>> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
> 



From lamber45 at msu.edu  Tue Mar 18 20:39:45 2008
From: lamber45 at msu.edu (David Lee Lambert)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 20:39:45 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Export homedirs via NFS and Samba?
References: <20080318123208.B5CEFC0CA@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <006a01c88959$baea96d0$090fa8c0@lmert.com>

Yes, that's a common setup, but if Greg has UNIX accounts for all users 
already,  why does he need winbind?

The "winbind trusted domains only" and "winbind trusted domains only" 
parameters sound like they might solve this kind of problem;  but I've never 
needed to use winbind.

Another possibility,  if his personal account is the only one with this 
problem,  is to edit /etc/passwd and change the uid for "gwojtak" to the one 
winbindd generated for "MI+gwojtak".  I have a computer where I sometimes 
want my home-directory to be local and sometimes want it to come in over 
NFS,  so I have a line in /etc/passwd "dLocal:1024:..." and a local path in 
the "home" column and another line "davidl:1024:...".


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert Adkins" <radkins at impelind.com>
To: "'MDLUG's Main discussion list'" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Export homedirs via NFS and Samba?


> Use Access Control Lists.
>
> The Filesystem should definitely support that, just tweak that on the 
> server
> to support both the UNIX and the Domain permissions and away you go. (Or 
> at
> least, that's the theory...)
>
> -Rob
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org
>> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Wojtak, Greg
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 8:29 AM
>> To: mdlug at mdlug.org
>> Subject: [mdlug] Export homedirs via NFS and Samba?
>>
>> Is this a common setup?  I have an NFS/Samba server set up.
>> I am currently exporting users' home directories.  I want the
>> users to be able to mount their home directories on UNIX or
>> Windows, but here is the issue I am having.  The server is
>> joined to the domain MI.  I can export /home/gwojtak via NFS
>> just fine.  I can export [homes] in Samba just fine.  The
>> problem comes up with permissions - UNIX, of course just sets
>> ownership to gwojtak on newly created files.  If I try to
>> access my home directory via Samba, it is getting the
>> expected winbind mangling, 'MI+gwojtak' and permission is
>> denied to even pull up the UNC.  Changing the ownership on
>> the Samba server on /home/gwojtak to MI+gwojtak makes it work
>> properly on Windows, but then breaks NFS ownerships.
>>
>> Is this not a good setup?  What am I doing wrong, or should I
>> not even be doing this?  It seems to me that this would be a
>> common implementation?  This is a Red HATE Enterprise Linux
>> 5.1 server.
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> --
>> Greg Wojtak
>> http://www.yesthatsright.net/
>> _______________________________________________
>> mdlug mailing list
>> mdlug at mdlug.org
>> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
> 



From jbroughton at twmi.rr.com  Tue Mar 18 23:17:39 2008
From: jbroughton at twmi.rr.com (Jim)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 23:17:39 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Anyone familiar with Qmail. I need some help.
In-Reply-To: <26518.216.144.215.245.1205834331.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
References: <47DF0F9A.60707@twmi.rr.com>
	<26518.216.144.215.245.1205834331.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <47E085D3.9050505@twmi.rr.com>

Carl T. Miller wrote:
> Jim wrote:
>   
>> I run a Qmail server using netqmail-1.05. This server has been running
>> along fine until
>> about the last 3 months. Now I find myself in a never ending pit of
>> spam.
>>     
>
> Jim, do you have any kind of web based form that generates
> email?  What may be happening is that someone is sending
> bad data to that form to generate email that appears to
> come from other domains.  The remote server would send
> qmail an undeliverable message, perhaps mentioning either
> the fake source domain or the intended destination domain.
> You would then receive the bounced mail message.
>
> You may want to set up a sniffer to see what all connections
> are leaving your server.
>
> c
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>   
Thanks I had not thought of that. It is a definite possibility.
I did however spot a small yet possible error in my tcp.smtp file.
I also throttled port 25 to 3 hits per minute per ip address.
Since this is in a small business 3 hits per minute should be ok.
With these fixes in place email hits today fell off considerably.
Less than 200 hits that actualy got through to the qmail-smtpd server
software verses around 10000+ a day before that. I also had to
get my server ip removed from 2 rbl lists because of this crap.
If you thought spam was aggravating as a user it is far more so
as a server admin.


  Thanks to all that replied. Is this formatting better Aaron?

Jim B.



From driveray at ameritech.net  Wed Mar 19 00:56:25 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 00:56:25 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] President's Mail bag
Message-ID: <47E09CF9.3080400@ameritech.net>

Passed along without comment

> Hi Raymond,
>  
> My name is Neftali Millan, Technical Recruiter for  Sapphire Technologies.
> I specialize in networking with the top 10% of Engineering Professionals 
> in North America. I was informed that I would be able to find experts in 
> the field at this user group. I am conducting a search currently for a 
> Senior Embedded Linux Software Engineer to take on a permanent position 
> in Rochester Hills, MI. The opportunity involves working directly for a 
> stable organization that is demonstrating tremendous growth and stability.
> I would appreciate any direction you could point me in. 
> Regards,
> 
> Neftali Millan
> Technical Recruiter 
> Sapphire Technologies
> 2800 Livernois Rd Suite 560
> Troy, MI 48083
>  
> Office: (248) 528-1200  ext. 2160 
> Fax: (248) 528-3103
>  
> 
> REFER YOUR FRIENDS AND MAKE MONEY!!!
> 
> Checkout the details of our New & Improved Referral Bonus Plan on Sapphire.com
> 
> $500 for the first referral
> 
> $750 for the second referral
> 
> $1000 for the third + referral
>  
>  
>  
>  


From driveray at ameritech.net  Wed Mar 19 03:14:20 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 03:14:20 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] BIOS viruses ? Oh my!
Message-ID: <47E0BD4C.2060003@ameritech.net>

MDLUGers:

I came across this on another list, and thought it extra-ordinary enough
to pass all here. This concludes a thread



> On Thu, 2008-03-06 at 15:36 -0500, Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
>> > john-thomas richards wrote:
>>> > > On Tue, Nov 20, 2007 at 03:18:01PM -0500, john-thomas richards wrote:
>>>> > >> I am helping a friend with his non-profit's computer (he runs an inner-city
>>> > > [snip]
>>> > > 
>>> > > After pouring much time into this, it has been determined that this
>>> > > (and the other two) motherboard has a very special and very specific
>>> > > failure that keeps it from booting a GUI.  (Mad props to Greg F. for
>>> > > all his help.  He is a Very. Smart. Guy.  Thank you!)  So my friend
>>> > > with the non-profit ministry has some nice hardware but no
>>> > > motherboards.  He was recently offered some more computers by another
>>> > > donor so I thought, hey, why not make a nice server out of the
>>> > > hardware?  To cut this short, dual-Pentium III motherboards are a rare
>>> > > find these days (nada on eBay).  Any of you guys have one (I have the
>>> > > processors  :-)  for sale?
>> > 
>> > Please forgive me if you've already "been there and done that", but have
>> > you tried installing Linux on these things? I know you need Windows
>> > eventually, but if you can get a light enough weight Linux up and into
>> > graphical mode, a VMWare Player session could provide you with the
>> > Windows functionality you need. Pentium IIIs are kind of at the low end
>> > of what will run XP in a VM. But, as I said, a light weight (i.e. low
>> > resource demanding) Linux should be able to leave plenty for office work
>> >  in an XP VM. In this case more RAM is really better than a second CPU.
>> > Pentium IIIs start at (I think) 500MHz. I hope you  have at least 750's.
> 
> Just to let everyone know... I have a beaten these machines from nearly
> every way possible.
> 
> The only thing that works is a Linux Distro that DOES NOT change the
> Video Mode... and then only until a reboot and only until it sets
> "console fonts". Only the older installs got to a point of login. but
> eventually DPMS blanking would lock it up.
> 
> For the record, here are the things I did:
>       * updated the BIOS, which brought back most functionality for a
>         while, until a hard lock froze everything up... which turned out
>         to be DPMS screen blanking
>       * Tried an 800MHz PentiumIII Coppermine processor, a 1GHz
>         PentiumIII processor, a 1.13GHz PentiumIII processor
>       * Completely different RAM, motherboard capable of 2 sticks,
>         everywhere from 32MB to 1GB, different speeds
>       * Hard Drives in sizes from 2GB through 120GB, ATA-3 through ATA-6
>       * 4 CD-Drives, 2 DVD drives
>       * Video cards: Matrox AGP and PCI cards, ATI Rage 128 through
>         Radeon 7500, nVidia nv8 through nv27 chipsets, S3 cards, Diamond
>         PCI and others
>       * New NICs: about 15 different 3Com cards, 10 different Intel E100
>         cards, numerous D-Link, many different other chipsets as well.
>       * three different power supplies.
> 
> And here are the things I ran to see what I could find:
> 
>       * KNOPPIX in text mode
>       * LIVE-CDs out the wazoo
>       * 5 different rescue CDs and the myriad of diags they had, any
>         that change the Video mode locked hard.
>       * 7 different Distros of Linux and BSDs and a myrid of versions:
>               * Debian v2.0 through current SID
>               * Redhat V4.0 through v9.0
>               * CentOS v2.1 through v5.1
>               * Turbolinux Only one version...
>               * Slackware Pro(1996) through 11
>               * FreeBSD 3.5, 4.11, 5.5, 6.3 but not 7.
>               * NetBSD 1.4.3, 1.5.3, 1.6.2, 2.1, 3.1
> 
> 
> Now, my feeling here is that these machine when running Windows came
> across a site that was probably compromised and the compromiser had it
> in for any IBM hardware. Created a BIOS hack and got it to load via
> Active-Hex via Infernal Exploiter or Lookout... voila, unfixable
> machine.
> 
> Since these machine were probably in used one after another as they
> failed... all going to the same place, well they all broke the same way.
> 
> Side story:
> I had an experience one time with some serious IBM Servers with a 5
> channel IBM-ServeRAID card in it. IBM replaced the drives, the DASD, the
> cage backplanes the processors the memory, pretty much everything except
> the RAID Controller.
> 
> IBM eventually replaced the whole machine with a newer faster machine.
> Five weeks later they finally got back to me, stating that they finally
> changed out the $7K RAID controller, there was a Firmware Virus in it.
> It was very specific. And the way the thing got on there was when the
> original image of Windows on the machine hadn't been updated and when to
> some type of a spoof "IBM" site (of which there were many at the time)
> and it installed an update using IE v4. something.
> 
> Summary:
> So... I do know that many people have a serious attitude towards IBM. so
> it is possible these Netvistas fall into that category, they were
> work-horses for MANY companies, which ticked many people off. And
> there-in I believe is what happened.
> 
> Now these machine are well made, look decent, are quiet enough and
> easily dealt with. except the motherboard is very specifically borkened.
> 
> Sooo... there you go.
> -- greg at gregfolkert.net PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05 Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74 E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0 Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA 29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Wed Mar 19 09:50:03 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:50:03 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] BIOS viruses ? Oh my!
In-Reply-To: <47E0BD4C.2060003@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654CD@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Raymond McLaughlin
> >>> > > On Tue, Nov 20, 2007 at 03:18:01PM -0500, john-thomas 
> richards wrote:
> >>> > > After pouring much time into this, it has been determined that this
> >>> > > (and the other two) motherboard has a very special and very specific
> >>> > > failure that keeps it from booting a GUI.

> > Now, my feeling here is that these machine when running Windows came
> > across a site that was probably compromised and the compromiser had it
> > in for any IBM hardware. Created a BIOS hack and got it to load via
> > Active-Hex via Infernal Exploiter or Lookout... voila, unfixable
> > machine.

 And not cleared by a BIOS update? I won't say it's impossible, but I'd guess
it more likely that there was a bad production run - perhaps a dodgy capacitor
was used. Switching video modes is a lot harder on a monitor than a video
processor, but it still does draw some current and would send some surges into
the lines. Normally this wouldn't be a problem, but if the filters on the lines
didn't handle the ringing, or allowed some signal to leak onto other lines...

 That'd be the kind of thing that'd take a while to show up, but in a batch
of machines that were all used in similar ways, they might flake out the same
way at roughly the same time.

 One possible thing to try - a video mode switch without a monitor connected?
That'd change the load significantly... these things might make useful
headless servers if that were the case.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                             (313) 227-2317

  "Real faith, you see, leads us to deeper reflection and not -- not
 ever -- to the thing we as humans so very much want: Easy certainty."
                           - Jim Wallis
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Wed Mar 19 10:00:06 2008
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 10:00:06 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Export homedirs via NFS and Samba?
In-Reply-To: <006a01c88959$baea96d0$090fa8c0@lmert.com>
References: <20080318123208.B5CEFC0CA@impelind.com>
	<006a01c88959$baea96d0$090fa8c0@lmert.com>
Message-ID: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE054BA679@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

Solution found?!

I am still using winbind.  In my [homes] section, I have the following:

[homes]
        comment = Home Directories
        browseable = no
        writable = yes
        force user = %S


I added the force user to force the UNIX permissions to be the name of
the service, in this case the username and name of the home directories
match up.

Comments?  I'm curious what other people think of this - limitations
(other than the obvious of having the username have to match the home
directory name).

Thanks!

Greg
http://www.yesthatsright.net/

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of David Lee Lambert
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 8:40 PM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Export homedirs via NFS and Samba?

Yes, that's a common setup, but if Greg has UNIX accounts for all users 
already,  why does he need winbind?

The "winbind trusted domains only" and "winbind trusted domains only" 
parameters sound like they might solve this kind of problem;  but I've
never 
needed to use winbind.

Another possibility,  if his personal account is the only one with this 
problem,  is to edit /etc/passwd and change the uid for "gwojtak" to the
one 
winbindd generated for "MI+gwojtak".  I have a computer where I
sometimes 
want my home-directory to be local and sometimes want it to come in over

NFS,  so I have a line in /etc/passwd "dLocal:1024:..." and a local path
in 
the "home" column and another line "davidl:1024:...".


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert Adkins" <radkins at impelind.com>
To: "'MDLUG's Main discussion list'" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Export homedirs via NFS and Samba?


> Use Access Control Lists.
>
> The Filesystem should definitely support that, just tweak that on the 
> server
> to support both the UNIX and the Domain permissions and away you go.
(Or 
> at
> least, that's the theory...)
>
> -Rob
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org
>> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Wojtak, Greg
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 8:29 AM
>> To: mdlug at mdlug.org
>> Subject: [mdlug] Export homedirs via NFS and Samba?
>>
>> Is this a common setup?  I have an NFS/Samba server set up.
>> I am currently exporting users' home directories.  I want the
>> users to be able to mount their home directories on UNIX or
>> Windows, but here is the issue I am having.  The server is
>> joined to the domain MI.  I can export /home/gwojtak via NFS
>> just fine.  I can export [homes] in Samba just fine.  The
>> problem comes up with permissions - UNIX, of course just sets
>> ownership to gwojtak on newly created files.  If I try to
>> access my home directory via Samba, it is getting the
>> expected winbind mangling, 'MI+gwojtak' and permission is
>> denied to even pull up the UNC.  Changing the ownership on
>> the Samba server on /home/gwojtak to MI+gwojtak makes it work
>> properly on Windows, but then breaks NFS ownerships.
>>
>> Is this not a good setup?  What am I doing wrong, or should I
>> not even be doing this?  It seems to me that this would be a
>> common implementation?  This is a Red HATE Enterprise Linux
>> 5.1 server.
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> --
>> Greg Wojtak
>> http://www.yesthatsright.net/
>> _______________________________________________
>> mdlug mailing list
>> mdlug at mdlug.org
>> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
> 

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From rrclark at rrclark.net  Wed Mar 19 14:22:21 2008
From: rrclark at rrclark.net (Rich Clark <rrclark@rrclark.net>)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:22:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] BIOS viruses ? Oh my!
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654CD@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654CD@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.1.00.0803191416470.15046@rich.private.rrclark.net>

On Wed, 19 Mar 2008, Ingles, Raymond wrote:

>> From: Raymond McLaughlin
>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 20, 2007 at 03:18:01PM -0500, john-thomas
>> richards wrote:
>>>>>>> After pouring much time into this, it has been determined that this
>>>>>>> (and the other two) motherboard has a very special and very specific
>>>>>>> failure that keeps it from booting a GUI.
>
>>> Now, my feeling here is that these machine when running Windows came
>>> across a site that was probably compromised and the compromiser had it
>>> in for any IBM hardware. Created a BIOS hack and got it to load via
>>> Active-Hex via Infernal Exploiter or Lookout... voila, unfixable
>>> machine.
>
> And not cleared by a BIOS update? I won't say it's impossible, but I'd guess
> it more likely that there was a bad production run - perhaps a dodgy capacitor
> was used. Switching video modes is a lot harder on a monitor than a video
> processor, but it still does draw some current and would send some surges into
> the lines. Normally this wouldn't be a problem, but if the filters on the lines
> didn't handle the ringing, or allowed some signal to leak onto other lines...
>
> That'd be the kind of thing that'd take a while to show up, but in a batch
> of machines that were all used in similar ways, they might flake out the same
> way at roughly the same time.
>
> One possible thing to try - a video mode switch without a monitor connected?
> That'd change the load significantly... these things might make useful
> headless servers if that were the case.

You have to take into account the age of the hardware, too. Correct me if 
I'm wrong, but PIII processors and associated hardware were brand spanking 
new and fresh to market in 1997-1998 and only stayed on market for about 
4-5 years. We're talking about 10 years age for most of that gear, and 
even with them sitting on a shelf unpowered and boxed/wrapped capacitors 
are going to corrode, leak and dry out.

I think someone's pulling your leg about the BIOS virus, though. I haven't 
heard anything credible about a BIOS virus since about 1992 or 1993.


From tesral at comcast.net  Wed Mar 19 16:11:49 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 16:11:49 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] BIOS viruses ? Oh my!
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.1.00.0803191416470.15046@rich.private.rrclark.net>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654CD@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<alpine.LRH.1.00.0803191416470.15046@rich.private.rrclark.net>
Message-ID: <47E17385.7010705@comcast.net>

Rich Clark <rrclark at rrclark.net> wrote:
> You have to take into account the age of the hardware, too. Correct me if 
> I'm wrong, but PIII processors and associated hardware were brand spanking 
> new and fresh to market in 1997-1998 and only stayed on market for about 
> 4-5 years. We're talking about 10 years age for most of that gear, and 
> even with them sitting on a shelf unpowered and boxed/wrapped capacitors 
> are going to corrode, leak and dry out.
>
> I think someone's pulling your leg about the BIOS virus, though. I haven't 
> heard anything credible about a BIOS virus since about 1992 or 1993.
>   

And the PIII boards were bad for bad caps.  I lost one to no less that
six blown caps on one board.



-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Wed Mar 19 16:14:56 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 16:14:56 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: [opensuse-offtopic] Help Bruce get on the board of
	OSI]
Message-ID: <47E17440.7090903@hotpop.com>



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [opensuse-offtopic] Help Bruce get on the board of OSI
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:48:50 -0500
From: JB2 <yonaton at localnet.com>
To: opensuse-offtopic at opensuse.org


--------------------
I need you to help me protect Open Source. Would you please visit
<http://techp.org/p/7/>
read the message there, and sign it?


     Many Thanks,

     Bruce Perens

Bruce Perens / 1563 Solano Ave. / PMB 349 / Berkeley CA 94707 USA /
--------------------


-- 
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little 
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
         Benjamin Franklin

Religion - it's not just for breakfast anymore...murderers,
dictators, child  molesters and all other similar ilk use
it daily too!




From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Wed Mar 19 16:26:14 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 16:26:14 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] New MB passes the smoke test
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654C7@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654D2@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Ingles, Raymond

> It didn't get a network address (a bit of Googling  indicates I can just
> 'restart' the networking and it should work) and apparently 
> there's a bug in the 'powernowd' daemon that throttles the CPUs at all times.

 Well, restarting the network didn't work. What worked was plugging the network
cable directly into the Linksys firewall instead of a 10/100 hub. The hub itself
may be bad - the Windows box my wife uses didn't work on the net when plugged
into the hub.

 Anyone heard of a problem with gigabit cards making 10/100 hubs flake out?

 Fortunately, the powernowd thing has apparently been fixed - the CPU frequency
scaled quite well, as it should.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                                    (313) 227-2317

 "I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of the freedom of the
 people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent
             and sudden usurpations." - James Madison, 1788
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From tesral at comcast.net  Wed Mar 19 16:34:27 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 16:34:27 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] New MB passes the smoke test
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654D2@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654D2@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <47E178D3.6040804@comcast.net>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>> From: Ingles, Raymond
>>     
>
>   
>> It didn't get a network address (a bit of Googling  indicates I can just
>> 'restart' the networking and it should work) and apparently 
>> there's a bug in the 'powernowd' daemon that throttles the CPUs at all times.
>>     
>
>  Well, restarting the network didn't work. What worked was plugging the network
> cable directly into the Linksys firewall instead of a 10/100 hub. The hub itself
> may be bad - the Windows box my wife uses didn't work on the net when plugged
> into the hub.
>
>  Anyone heard of a problem with gigabit cards making 10/100 hubs flake out?
>
>  Fortunately, the powernowd thing has apparently been fixed - the CPU frequency
> scaled quite well, as it should.
>   

Hey they break. I had to replace my last year.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From tesral at comcast.net  Wed Mar 19 16:35:09 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 16:35:09 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: [opensuse-offtopic] Help Bruce get on the board
 of	OSI]
In-Reply-To: <47E17440.7090903@hotpop.com>
References: <47E17440.7090903@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <47E178FD.3080004@comcast.net>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [opensuse-offtopic] Help Bruce get on the board of OSI
> Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:48:50 -0500
> From: JB2 <yonaton at localnet.com>
> To: opensuse-offtopic at opensuse.org
>
>
> --------------------
> I need you to help me protect Open Source. Would you please visit
> <http://techp.org/p/7/>
> read the message there, and sign it?
>
>
>      Many Thanks,
>
>      Bruce Perens
>
> Bruce Perens / 1563 Solano Ave. / PMB 349 / Berkeley CA 94707 USA /
> --------------------
>
>
>   
Details, reasons?

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Wed Mar 19 16:53:58 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 16:53:58 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: [opensuse-offtopic] Help Bruce get on the board
 of	OSI]
In-Reply-To: <47E178FD.3080004@comcast.net>
References: <47E17440.7090903@hotpop.com> <47E178FD.3080004@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <47E17D66.5010002@hotpop.com>

Garry Stahl wrote:
> Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: [opensuse-offtopic] Help Bruce get on the board of OSI
>> Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:48:50 -0500
>> From: JB2 <yonaton at localnet.com>
>> To: opensuse-offtopic at opensuse.org
>> --------------------
>> I need you to help me protect Open Source. Would you please visit
>> <http://techp.org/p/7/>  read the message there, and sign it?
>>
>>      Many Thanks,
>>      Bruce Perens
>>
>> Bruce Perens / 1563 Solano Ave. / PMB 349 / Berkeley CA 94707 USA /
>> --------------------
>>   
> Details, reasons?
>


All I know is what's in the link.





From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Wed Mar 19 17:01:56 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 17:01:56 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] BIOS viruses ? Oh my!
In-Reply-To: <47E17385.7010705@comcast.net>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654CD@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<alpine.LRH.1.00.0803191416470.15046@rich.private.rrclark.net>
	<47E17385.7010705@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <47E17F44.8020804@hotpop.com>

Garry Stahl wrote:
> Rich Clark <rrclark at rrclark.net> wrote:
>> You have to take into account the age of the hardware, too. Correct me if 
>> I'm wrong, but PIII processors and associated hardware were brand spanking 
>> new and fresh to market in 1997-1998 and only stayed on market for about 
>> 4-5 years. We're talking about 10 years age for most of that gear, and 
>> even with them sitting on a shelf unpowered and boxed/wrapped capacitors 
>> are going to corrode, leak and dry out.
>>
>> I think someone's pulling your leg about the BIOS virus, though. I haven't 
>> heard anything credible about a BIOS virus since about 1992 or 1993.
>>   
> 
> And the PIII boards were bad for bad caps.  I lost one to no less that
> six blown caps on one board.

During that era, I had an MB go bad.

I was disappointed when I looked for bad caps and couldn't
find any, as I definitely would have preferred replacing a
few leaky caps to replacing the whole MB.




From codeshepherd at gmail.com  Wed Mar 19 18:07:31 2008
From: codeshepherd at gmail.com (Deepan)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 03:37:31 +0530
Subject: [mdlug] Sendmail configuration
Message-ID: <a60aae67997b8cf34315570040913e9b@localhost.localdomain>

Hi All,
I am using sendmail via php mail function to send
emails. However few servers reject my mails with
the error 'Sender address rejected: Domain not
found', since mails from my server are sent as
email at localhost.localdomain. How do I change this
to a valid domain name ? We only own a public IP.
we dont really have a domain name, is it possible
to use IP ? 
Regards
Deepan
Facebook Sudoku Solver:
http://apps.facebook.com/sudokusolver/ 
Sudoku Solver: http://www.sudoku-solver.net/ 
Home Page: http://www.codeshepherd/ 




From peter at petertheplumber.net  Wed Mar 19 19:30:18 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 19:30:18 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] New MB passes the smoke test
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654D2@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654D2@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <1205969418.19082.1.camel@peter-notebook.site>


On Wed, 2008-03-19 at 16:26 -0400, Ingles, Raymond wrote:
> > From: Ingles, Raymond
> 
> > It didn't get a network address (a bit of Googling  indicates I can just
> > 'restart' the networking and it should work) and apparently 
> > there's a bug in the 'powernowd' daemon that throttles the CPUs at all times.
> 
>  Well, restarting the network didn't work. What worked was plugging the network
> cable directly into the Linksys firewall instead of a 10/100 hub. The hub itself
> may be bad - the Windows box my wife uses didn't work on the net when plugged
> into the hub.
> 
>  Anyone heard of a problem with gigabit cards making 10/100 hubs flake out?
> 
>  Fortunately, the powernowd thing has apparently been fixed - the CPU frequency
> scaled quite well, as it should.
> 
>  Sincerely,
> 
>  Ray Ingles                                                    (313) 227-2317

	Glad to hear things are working out!

-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Wed Mar 19 19:17:04 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 19:17:04 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Sendmail configuration
In-Reply-To: <a60aae67997b8cf34315570040913e9b@localhost.localdomain>
References: <a60aae67997b8cf34315570040913e9b@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <47E19EF0.3090404@hotpop.com>

Deepan wrote:
> Hi All,
> I am using sendmail via php mail function to send
> emails. However few servers reject my mails with
> the error 'Sender address rejected: Domain not
> found', since mails from my server are sent as
> email at localhost.localdomain. How do I change this
> to a valid domain name ? We only own a public IP.
> we dont really have a domain name, is it possible
> to use IP ?

Tangential comment:

First rule of sendmail debugging -- go download and
install the latest version of sendmail before
doing anything else.




From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Wed Mar 19 21:52:57 2008
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 21:52:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Sendmail configuration
Message-ID: <7405866.1205977977954.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

-----Original Message-----
>From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis3 at hotpop.com>
>Sent: Mar 19, 2008 7:17 PM
>To: Deepan <codeshepherd at gmail.com>, MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>Subject: Re: [mdlug] Sendmail configuration
>
>Deepan wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> I am using sendmail via php mail function to send
>> emails. However few servers reject my mails with
>> the error 'Sender address rejected: Domain not
>> found', since mails from my server are sent as
>> email at localhost.localdomain. How do I change this
>> to a valid domain name ? We only own a public IP.
>> we dont really have a domain name, is it possible
>> to use IP ?
>
>Tangential comment:
>
>First rule of sendmail debugging -- go download and
>install the latest version of sendmail before
>doing anything else.
>

Slightly better suggestion...
Dump Sendmail and replace with something less pathological, such as Postfix.  But if you are a masochist, then download and compile the latest version of Sendmail.

-Mike


From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Wed Mar 19 22:54:21 2008
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Robert Meier)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 22:54:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Sendmail configuration
In-Reply-To: <47E19EF0.3090404@hotpop.com> (message from Aaron Kulkis on Wed, 
	19 Mar 2008 19:17:04 -0400)
References: <a60aae67997b8cf34315570040913e9b@localhost.localdomain>
	<47E19EF0.3090404@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <20080320025421.02C77127D3E@starfox.local>

Deepan,

> First rule of sendmail debugging -- go download and
> install the latest version of sendmail before
> doing anything else.

Second rule of sendmail debugging -- read RFC 2822, and then the
comments (not the code) in the sendmail.cf file.

After the above, you will probably want to use your distributions
mail transport agent configurator (e.g. yast2 mail for SuSE)
rather than change the domain setting "Dj" (j for ??? ) directly.

>> However [a] few servers reject my mails with
>> the error 'Sender address rejected: Domain not
>> found' since mails from my server are sent as
> email at localhost.localdomain.

localhost.* is not a valid host identifier,
it is a reserved name for the host where it is being used.
Like ip address 0.0.0.0 or "resident" on a smail envelope,
it is only a placeholder.

These servers are trying to cut down internet spam by
rejecting mail sent anonymously.

> We only own a public IP [address].

Your domain name is normally that of your ISP.
(If in doubt, ask your ISP.)

> We dont really have a domain name, is it possible to use IP [address]? 

You can use your IP address, but sites that reject anonymous mail
(e.g. localhost.*), will probably also reject any ip address
without an MX record.

Hopefully helpful,
-- 
Bob

  "Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that,
   once it is competently programmed and working smoothly,
   it is completely honest."
     -- Isaac Asimov


From tesral at comcast.net  Thu Mar 20 13:32:07 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 13:32:07 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] USB dilemma
Message-ID: <47E29F97.4060103@comcast.net>

Okay.  the problem is solved, but I am wondering what caused it.

I have a four gig flash drive.  It was slightly corrupted in that it has
several files that would not delete as they "didn't exist" but were
still there.  I reformatted the drive in Suse 9.3 with fat 32.

Since then every time I plugged that drive in the USB port it locked the
computer solid.  Reset button required.  Other flash drives did not do
this.   I could boot the computer with the drive in place and it would
work.  I could remove it no problem

I put the drive into the XP box, no problem.  I reformatted it with the
XP tools and the problem vanished.

Does anyone have an idea WHY?

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Thu Mar 20 14:34:35 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 14:34:35 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] USB dilemma
In-Reply-To: <47E29F97.4060103@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654D9@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Garry Stahl

> I reformatted the drive in Suse 9.3 with fat 32. Since then every time
> I plugged that drive in the USB port it locked the computer solid.
[...]
> I put the drive into the XP box, no problem.  I reformatted it with the
> XP tools and the problem vanished.
> 
> Does anyone have an idea WHY?

 Did you change the partition type in the partition table? I could see if it was
labeled ntfs or ext3 but contained fat32, it might trigger a bug. Windows
doesn't support much of anything in terms of filesystems, so it might not be
as senstive to the partition type.

 Just a guess...

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                          (313) 227-2317

  One of the real motives for the invasion of Iraq was to give the
   world a demonstration of American power. It's a measure of how
 badly things have gone that now we're told we can't leave because
 that would be a demonstration of American weakness. - Paul Krugman
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Mar 20 15:20:09 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 15:20:09 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] USB dilemma
In-Reply-To: <47E29F97.4060103@comcast.net>
References: <47E29F97.4060103@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803201220n48e1626ex1864f451722affa6@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 1:32 PM, Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:
> Okay.  the problem is solved, but I am wondering what caused it.
>
>  I have a four gig flash drive.  It was slightly corrupted in that it has
>  several files that would not delete as they "didn't exist" but were
>  still there.  I reformatted the drive in Suse 9.3 with fat 32.
>
>  Since then every time I plugged that drive in the USB port it locked the
>  computer solid.  Reset button required.  Other flash drives did not do
>  this.   I could boot the computer with the drive in place and it would
>  work.  I could remove it no problem

Did you try the magic SysRq keys (Alt-SysRq-REISUB)?  That would tell
you if the Kernel actually locked vs. just X.  Normally if the kernel
panics then it flashes the keyboard keys repeatedly.  You could also
try to SSH in from another system.

I'm having problems with a SanDisk Cruzer 4GB USB flash drive.  I
formatted it ext3 and created a subdirectory with 777 permissions so I
could read/write from any account on any system.  ext3 is better than
vfat because it's more efficient (vfat has ridiculously large cluster
sizes on 4GB) and can handle characters the vfat can't (like colons).
But on some PCs I tried it with I couldn't copy files off
successfully.  Nautilus (Ubuntu Gutsy) would abort and the drive would
unmount.  I haven't figured out that one yet.

Interestingly, the SanDisk packaging shows the penguin for Linux
compatibility but for Vista its a sticker.


From Stan at mcomputersolutions.com  Thu Mar 20 19:48:03 2008
From: Stan at mcomputersolutions.com (Stan Green)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 19:48:03 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] USB dilemma
In-Reply-To: <47E29F97.4060103@comcast.net>
References: <47E29F97.4060103@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <200803201948.03233.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>

By any chance are you running lm_sensors? I just had a lock-up issue with an 
8GB USB drive and SuSE 10.1. I had recently turn on lm_sensors and so I 
turned it back off and I have not experienced any more lock-ups. I did not do 
any further research on the issue. I just decide I needed my USB drive more 
than sensors.

HTH,
Stan Green

On Thursday 20 March 2008 13:32, Garry Stahl wrote:
> Okay.  the problem is solved, but I am wondering what caused it.
>
> I have a four gig flash drive.  It was slightly corrupted in that it has
> several files that would not delete as they "didn't exist" but were
> still there.  I reformatted the drive in Suse 9.3 with fat 32.
>
> Since then every time I plugged that drive in the USB port it locked the
> computer solid.  Reset button required.  Other flash drives did not do
> this.   I could boot the computer with the drive in place and it would
> work.  I could remove it no problem
>
> I put the drive into the XP box, no problem.  I reformatted it with the
> XP tools and the problem vanished.
>
> Does anyone have an idea WHY?


From rrclark at rrclark.net  Sat Mar 22 07:29:15 2008
From: rrclark at rrclark.net (Rich Clark <rrclark@rrclark.net>)
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 07:29:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Sendmail configuration
In-Reply-To: <a60aae67997b8cf34315570040913e9b@localhost.localdomain>
References: <a60aae67997b8cf34315570040913e9b@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.1.00.0803220726510.3803@rich.private.rrclark.net>

On Thu, 20 Mar 2008, Deepan wrote:

> Hi All,
> I am using sendmail via php mail function to send
> emails. However few servers reject my mails with
> the error 'Sender address rejected: Domain not
> found', since mails from my server are sent as
> email at localhost.localdomain. How do I change this
> to a valid domain name ? We only own a public IP.
> we dont really have a domain name, is it possible
> to use IP ?

Personally, my postfix server rejects anything that can't say helo with a 
resolvable FQDN.

This link may be helpful:

http://www.sendmail.org/m4/site_config.html


From mdlug3 at arb.net  Sat Mar 22 11:53:20 2008
From: mdlug3 at arb.net (Dave Arbogast)
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 11:53:20 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Sendmail configuration
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.1.00.0803220726510.3803@rich.private.rrclark.net>
References: <a60aae67997b8cf34315570040913e9b@localhost.localdomain>
	<alpine.LRH.1.00.0803220726510.3803@rich.private.rrclark.net>
Message-ID: <47E52B70.8050401@arb.net>



Rich Clark <rrclark at rrclark.net> wrote:

>On Thu, 20 Mar 2008, Deepan wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Hi All,
>>I am using sendmail via php mail function to send
>>emails. However few servers reject my mails with
>>the error 'Sender address rejected: Domain not
>>found', since mails from my server are sent as
>>email at localhost.localdomain. How do I change this
>>to a valid domain name ? We only own a public IP.
>>we dont really have a domain name, is it possible
>>to use IP ?
>>    
>>
>
>Personally, my postfix server rejects anything that can't say helo with a 
>resolvable FQDN.
>
>This link may be helpful:
>
>http://www.sendmail.org/m4/site_config.html
>
I used to host commercial accounts with Sendmail... until 1999 or so. 
When I migrated to Postfix it was painless and has been ever since. 
Check out the stats for both - Postfix can process the same volume as 
Sendmail with half the resources. Postfix is much simpler to configure, 
etc...

But to answer your question specifically, your problem is most likely 
not a sendmail problem but the fact that your email server is on an IP 
address that does not have a corresponding reverse DNS entry....

If your SMTP server is on www.codeshepherd.com - it translated forward 
to 83.145.216.65 and this has a reverse DNS of whitedwarf.kaski-net.net 
- they do not match so many mail servers including my own will not 
accept this as it appears you are a SPAMMER...

-dave


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 24 00:19:59 2008
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 00:19:59 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] The ULTIMATE Unix cheat-sheet
Message-ID: <b67fb0380803232119i64d9b545te7a67dc19fc35e95@mail.gmail.com>

Found on <http://www.fsdaily.com> -- this is a follow-up to an earlier
cheat-sheet post I made.  This one sorta trumps the other one, though
all are valuable...

***  Unix Toolbox  **"
"This document is a collection of Unix/Linux/BSD commands and tasks
which are useful for IT work or for advanced users. This is a
practical guide with concise explanations, however the reader is
supposed to know what s/he is doing."
<http://cb.vu/unixtoolbox.xhtml>

~~ Mikey


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 25 12:21:01 2008
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:21:01 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Phun - 2D physics sandbox
Message-ID: <b67fb0380803250921h2491c6eco74b265bfbcc764eb@mail.gmail.com>

This is not ENTIRELY OT -- there's a Linux version -- but I think this
is a pretty entertaining piece of software.  Check out the video!

"Phun is meant to be a playground where people can be creative. It can
also be used as an educational tool to learn about physics concepts
such as restitution and friction."
<http://www.phun.at>

~~ Mikey


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Tue Mar 25 12:35:26 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:35:26 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Phun - 2D physics sandbox
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380803250921h2491c6eco74b265bfbcc764eb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380803250921h2491c6eco74b265bfbcc764eb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803250935w34422f7awf4e319d41df01959@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 12:21 PM, Michael Rudas <audiotech50 at gmail.com> wrote:
> This is not ENTIRELY OT -- there's a Linux version -- but I think this
>  is a pretty entertaining piece of software.  Check out the video!

Nifty application but the license needs more detail:
http://phun.cs.umu.se/wiki/Download

"Phun is free for non-commercial use. This means you can download it,
copy it etc, just don't make money using it (don't sell it or use it
for promotional puposes, but it's ok for you to use it at work while
your boss isn't looking)."

In the forums there is some discussion about the license and a
possible package for the OLPC.  There is a similar app planned for the
OLPC:  http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Elements


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Tue Mar 25 13:32:48 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:32:48 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Phun - 2D physics sandbox
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380803250921h2491c6eco74b265bfbcc764eb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380803250921h2491c6eco74b265bfbcc764eb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47E93740.2010703@hotpop.com>

Michael Rudas wrote:
> This is not ENTIRELY OT -- there's a Linux version -- but I think this
> is a pretty entertaining piece of software.  Check out the video!
> 
> "Phun is meant to be a playground where people can be creative. It can
> also be used as an educational tool to learn about physics concepts
> such as restitution and friction."
> <http://www.phun.at>

A few weeks ago, I saw another youtube video that showed a
white-board at MIT that does this.

It's nice to see that the software is available without
buying a $10,000 electronic blackboard.




From driveray at ameritech.net  Thu Mar 27 11:15:51 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 11:15:51 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] President's Mail bag -O'Reilly News for User Group Members
Message-ID: <47EBBA27.6080000@ameritech.net>

O'Reilly News for User Group Members
March 25, 2008

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operating web sites that are fast, reliable, and always up. We're
bringing together people from around the world who are doing the best
performance work, to improve the experience of web users worldwide.
Pages will be faster. Sites will have higher up-time. Companies will
achieve more with less. The next cool startup will be able to more
quickly scale to serve a larger audience, globally. Velocity is the key
for crossing over from cool Web 2.0 features to sustainable web sites.
Use code "vel08usgr" when you register, and receive 15% off the
registration price. Early registration discount is available until May
5. Click here to register for the conference.

O'Reilly Web 2.0 Conference Web 2.0 Expo
September 16-19, 2008 in New York, NY
The Call for Participation is now open. Web 2.0 Expo is for the builders
of the next generation web: designers, developers, entrepreneurs,
marketers, business strategists, and venture capitalists. O'Reilly and
CMP are seeking the best and brightest in the Web 2.0 universe to show
the world how the next Internet Revolution is being designed and delivered.
To submit a proposal to speak at Web 2.0 Expo, go to:
http://en.oreilly.com/webexny2008/public/cfp/18

O'Reilly School of Technology

OST O'Reilly School of Technology Courses: UG Members Receive a 30% Discount
O'Reilly School of Technology has opened its virtual doors with
educational offerings and certification for IT students looking to
further their careers or to launch one. As an O'Reilly User Group
member, you save on all the courses in the following University of
Illinois Certificate Series:

    * PHP/SQL Programming
    * Linux/Unix System Administration
    * Web Programming
    * Open Source Programming
    * .NET Programming
    * Client-Side Web Programming featuring AJAX

(This discount is not combinable with other offers.)
To redeem, use Promotion Code "ORALL1" good for a 30% discount, in Step
#2 of the enrollment process. Each course comes with a free O'Reilly
book and a 7-day money-back guarantee. Register online. (This discount
may not be combinable with other offers.)

News from O'Reilly & Beyond

UG News

LugRadio Live USA 2008 comes to San Francisco
Featuring over 35 speakers and 40 exhibitors, LugRadio Live USA 2008
brings the popular UK conference to San Francisco, combining an
incredibly unique, social, and fun atmosphere to cover a range of
subjects in and around Open Source, digital rights, technology and more.
At only $10 for the full weekend, LugRadio Live USA 2008 is well within
anyone's reach, and if you encourage people to pre-register, you can win
an Asus EEEPC or Neuros OSD, O'Reilly books, and more. Want to share
this event on your website?

TechEd 2008: Get Involved with Birds-of-a-Feather
INETA is once again coordinating the Birds-of-a-Feather (BOF) sessions
at TechEd 2008. THey have extended the deadline for topic submissions to
Wed 4/2/2008 and the voting deadline to Monday, April 7.

LinuxFest Northwest 2008
LinuxFest Northwest is happening in April, the 26th and 27th. LFNW is an
annual, international, technical event focused on Linux and OpenSource
software that attracts around 1,000-2,000 attendees each year, the
majority from Canada, Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, and
California. Online registration is available for Presenters/Speakers.

LinuxWorld Now Accepting Applications Birds-of-a-Feather Topics and .org
Projects
If you'd like to lead a BOF discussion, submit an idea for a session by
Monday, May 5.

The .org Pavilion is your opportunity to exhibit your free open source
software and open source projects. They're looking for projects that
produce great software and can host an informative, helpful exhibit. The
deadline for submitting is Friday, April 11.

Two new research reports: "Virtual Worlds: A Business Guide" and "The
Facebook Application System" have been published by O'Reilly Radar.
Very limited review copies are available.

Virtual Worlds: A Business Guide
by Ben Lorica, Roger Magoulas, and the O'Reilly Radar Team

What's the real business opportunity in Second Life and other virtual
worlds? What trends and innovations point the way to success? Why have
some high-profile virtual worlds flopped? You'll find answers in this
report.

The Facebook Application Ecosytem: Why Some Thrive--and Most Don't
by Shelly D. Farnham, Ph.D

What do the killer apps on the Facebook platform have in common? What
must you build into your application if you want Facebook users to adopt
it--and pass it on to their friends? Get this report and find out.

Head First Caption Contest
The Head First team is extending the caption contest that was in our
puzzle book at SDWest and SXSW onto the Head First Labs site. For the
next two months, readers can submit their questions and have a chance to
win $200 in O'Reilly products. If you're familiar with Head First books,
you know each chapter starts with a retro picture and humorous caption.
Send us your suggestions for amusing or educational Head First-related
captions for three of our favorite images and we'll enter you in a
drawing to win $200 of O'Reilly products. The winner will be announced
in May Head First newsletter.

DIY O'Reilly Gear
Create Your Own Calendar, Shirt, Notebook, Poster...In just three easy
steps you can create one of a kind calendars, greeting cards, keychains,
luggage tags, magnets, mousepads, mugs, notebooks, postcards, posters,
shirts, hoodies, and stickers adorned with your favorite O'Reilly animals.

Articles

Step by Step: Configuring SSL Under Apache
This is the first in a new series of ONLamp articles you'll be seeing
over the next few months. They aren't breaking news about the hottest
new technologies, they're step by step guides to common but sometimes
complicated procedures you may have to tackle. In the first installment,
Juliet Kemp gives us a checklist that should have your Apache server
running SSL in nothing flat.

Using Zend Studio for PHP Programming
Most programmers are familiar with Eclipse, and PHP programmers are
familiar with Zend Studio. But, like two great tastes that taste good
together, the two have now been combined into a single tool. Learn how
you can use Zend Studio to make your PHP programming more productive.

Aperture 2 Features 101-103 with Joe Schorr
Apple's web page says, "Aperture 2 delivers over 100 dramatic, new
features." And still there are a few terrific ones they forgot to put on
the list. In this podcast, Derrick Story chats with Joe Schorr, Senior
Product Manager for Aperture, to uncover a few of these hidden gems.

Reverse Callback Templating
Many programmers know of the two main systems of templating. One embeds
actual source code into the template. The other provides a mini language
with loops, conditionals, and other control structures. There is a third
way--a reverse callback system. James Robson explains this
best-of-both-worlds approach by demonstrating Perl's Template::Recall
module.

Audio Insights from the 2008 Game Developers Conference
To hear the future of audio, listen to video games. Interactive Audio
expert Kurt Heiden did just that at the Game Developers Conference. He
brings you what the experts at GDC 2008 had to say about the state of
audio in games, and then dives into some of the technology advancements
that are changing the interactive audio landscape.

For more articles, go to: http://www.oreillynet.com/

Blogs
Windows IT Evangelist Matt Hester interviews Laurel Ackerman about
O'Reilly's new Up-to-Date Series at SXSW
MAKE Magazine highlighted on NPR: Digital DIY
Head First or Head Rush?
Julie Lerman blogs about writing her first book for O'Reilly
Quality Begs for Object-Orientation
The Dangers of The Death March Mentality
Find Some Serenity on Your Mac
Anton Security Tip of the Week #14: More access_log Fun: What Are You
Not GETting?
Windows Mobile Weekly Roundup
Pocket These Tips from Derrick Story
Jolting the Industry Again

For more blogs, go to: http://www.oreillynet.com/blogs/
Until next time?
Marsee Henon
Spreading the knowledge of innovators.O'Reilly.com
O'Reilly Media, Inc. 1005 Gravenstein Highway North, Sebastopol, CA 95472
http://ug.oreilly.com/   http://ug.oreilly.com/creativemedia/



From driveray at ameritech.net  Thu Mar 27 10:25:32 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 10:25:32 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] President's Mail bag -O'Reilly News for User Group Members
Message-ID: <47EBAE5C.5090905@ameritech.net>

O'Reilly News for User Group Members
March 25, 2008

New Releases: Books, Short Cuts, and Rough Cuts

Get 35% off from O'Reilly, No Starch, Paraglyph, PC Publishing,
Pragmatic Bookshelf, Rocky Nook, SitePoint, or YoungJin books you
purchase directly from O'Reilly. Just use code "DSUG" when ordering
online or by phone 800-998-9938.

Free ground shipping on orders of $29.95 or more. See details.

Did you know you can request a free book or PDF to review for your
group? Ask your group leader for more information.
For book review writing tips and suggestions, go to:
http://ug.oreilly.com/bookreviews.html

New Releases: Books, Short Cuts, and Rough Cuts:

    * Programming Amazon Web Services
    * Ferret
    * The Digital Photography Companion
    * LINQ Pocket Reference
    * ScreenOS Cookbook
    * iPhone Open Application Development
    * Java Pocket Guide
    * C# 3.0 Pocket Reference, Second Edition
    * Switching to the Mac: The Missing Manual, Leopard Edition
    * Office 2008 for Macintosh: The Missing Manual, Fourth Edition
    * Take Control of Switching to the Mac (TidBITS)
    * ADO.NET 3.5 Cookbook, Second Edition
    * Digital Photography from the Ground Up (Rocky Nook)
    * Head First Servlets and JSP, Second Edition
    * Making Things Happen
    * JUNOS Enterprise Routing
    * Windows Server 2008: The Definitive Guide
    * Photoshop Elements 6 for Mac: The Missing Manual
    * The ThoughtWorks Anthology (Pragmatic Bookshelf)
    * The Principles of Project Management (SitePoint)
    * The Photograph (Hard Cover) (Rocky Nook)
    * Visual Communication in Digital Design (Young Jin)
    * Building a Server with FreeBSD 7 (No Starch)
    * Groovy Recipes (Pragmatic Bookshelf)
    * Audio Editing with Adobe Audition, Second Edition (PC Publishing)
    * Rails for PHP Developers (Pragmatic Bookshelf)
    * Wicked Cool PHP (No Starch)
    * The Ultimate CSS Reference (Hard Cover) (SitePoint)
    * The LEGO MINDSTORMS NXT Zoo! (No Starch)
    * Desktop GIS (Pragmatic Bookshelf)
    * CRAFT: Volume 06
    * SEO for Book Publishers: Beyond Book Search
    * XML for Publishers
    * Making Mobile Work
    * Digitizing Your Backlist
    * Essential Silverlight 2 Up-to-Date
    * Take Control of Permissions in Leopard (TidBITS)
    * Learning Flex 3 Rough Cut


MAKE Magazine Subscriptions
makezine.comThe annual subscription price for four issues is $34.95.
When you subscribe with this link, you'll get a free issue--one plus
four more for $34.95. So subscribe for yourself or friends with this
great offer for UG Members: five volumes for the cost of four.

Subscribe at: http://www.makezine.com/go/ugsub

Craft Magazine Subscriptions
craftzine.com The annual subscription price for four issues is $34.95.
When you subscribe with this link, you'll get a free issue--one plus
four more for $34.95. So subscribe for yourself or friends with this
great offer for charter subscribers: five volumes for the cost of four.

Subscribe at: http://www.craftzine.com/go/craftug

Upcoming Events
For more events, please see: events.oreilly.com


Webcast: Five Ways to Make Your Photos Look Better
Mar 27, 2008

Five Ways to Make Your Photos Look Better

In this webcast, Derrick Story, digital photographer, blogger, and
author of The Digital Photography Companion, gives you the tools to
capture the high quality pictures you've always wanted--photos that will
distinguish your work from others.

Thousands of pictures are recorded every day. Many of these shots are
personal and not meant to be viewed as art. But what if you could
capture the world everyone else sees, but in a more beautiful way?
Derrick shows you five ways to make your pictures look a cut above those
snapshots we typically see.

Attendance is limited, so register now. We'll send you a reminder before
the webcast.
Jonathan Zdziarski at the MIT Spam Conference
Mar 27-28, 2008
MIT Stata Center
Cambridge, MA
Jonathan Zdziarski, leading iPhone app developer and author of iPhone
Open Application Development, presents "Adaptive Language Parsing."

Jesse Liberty at VSLive! San Francisco
Mar 30-Apr 3, 2008
Moscone Convention Center West
San Francisco, CA
Author Jesse Liberty (Programming .NET 3.5 and Learning ASP.NET with
AJAX) will be Presenting "Intro to Silverlight 2" and "Silverlight and
Data."

O'Reilly Sponsor at MuleCon 2008 	MuleCon
Apr 1-2, 2008
Hilton Financial District
San Francisco, CA
MuleCon 2008 is the second annual Mule User Conference, bringing
together Mule experts, developers and users from around the world, along
with executives and engineers of MuleSource, the creators of Mule and
the company behind the technology.

O'Reilly at PhotoShop World Orlando 2008
Apr 3-4, 2008
Orange County Convention Center
Orlando, FL
Visit the O'Reilly booth #115 at PhotoShop World Orlando. Come join the
revolution with a FREE Tech Pass!

Dru Lavigne Speaks at Flourish
Apr 4-5, 2008
Chicago, IL
Dru Lavigne (BSD Hacks) will be speaking at Flourish in Chicago, IL from
April 4-5, 2008. She will be speaking on women in open source, as well
as manning the BSD booth and proctoring the BSDA exam. Keep an eye out
for her!

Sean Duggan Presents an All-Day Workshop: "Selections & Masking in Adobe
Photoshop CS3" 	cover image
Apr 11, 2008
Outreach College, University of Hawaii at Manoa
Honolulu, HI
Sean Duggan's (The Creative Digital Darkroom) day-long seminar will
focus on essential Photoshop concepts and techniques for creating
accurate selections, alpha channels and layer masks for precision
control in the modification of photographic images.

Brandon Schauer at Information Architecture Summit 2008
Apr 12-14, 2008
Miami, FL
The Information Architecture Summit is the premier gathering place for
information architects. Everyone who touches on IA is welcome to share
and learn. This year your peers and industry experts will speak about
how topics such as social networking, gaming, patterns, tagging,
taxonomies, and a wide range of IA tools and techniques can help as
users ???experience information." Brandon Schauer (co-author of Subject
to Change will be presenting on the topic of "The Long Wow."

Sean Duggan Presents a Weekend Seminar: "Creative Collage with Adobe
Photoshop CS3"
Apr 12-13, 2008
Outreach College, University of Hawaii at Manoa
Honolulu, HI
Sean Duggan (The Creative Digital Darkroom) focuses on exploring the art
of the photographic composite with Adobe Photoshop CS3. Explorations
range from simple collages, to combining two exposures of the same scene
to control contrast, to the creation of surreal, photo-realistic flights
of fancy. Topics include masking and knockout techniques; layers and
layer groups; simple collages based on image overlays, blend modes, and
opacity; precision collage control with layer masks; image
transformation tools including Free Transform and Warp; using Smart
Objects to preserve flexibility of transformed elements; creating a
collage from different source photos; multi-exposure composites to
control contrast; and matching color and lighting between images.

Allison Randal at LugRadio Live USA 2008
Apr 12-13, 2008
The Metreon Theater
San Francisco, CA
LugRadioAuthor and OSCON Program Chair Allison Randal will be presenting
"Linux Kernel." Featuring over 35 speakers and 40 exhibitors, LugRadio
Live USA 2008 brings the popular UK conference to San Francisco,
combining an incredibly unique, social and fun atmosphere to cover a
range of subjects in and around Open Source, digital rights, technology
and more. Stop by the O'Reilly booth and say hi.

MySQL Conference & Expo
Apr 14-17, 2008
Santa Clara, CA
Co-presented by O'Reilly Media and MySQL AB, the friendly, professional
atmosphere of the MySQL Conference & Expo brings together developers,
users, and database administrators, reflecting MySQL's wide-ranging
appeal and capabilities.

MySQL Conference & Expo 2008

Sean Duggan Presents a Hands-on Workshop: "Camera Raw 4 & Adobe Bridge
Workflow"
Apr 14, 2008
Outreach College, University of Hawaii at Manoa
Honolulu, HI
Sean Duggan's (The Creative Digital Darkroom) hands-on workshop delves
into the raw processing combo of Adobe Bridge CS3 and Adobe Camera Raw
4.1 in Photoshop CS3. Every feature in the eight tabbed panels of the
Camera Raw dialog is explored and fully explained to help you get the
most from your raw files. Also covers speeding up the raw workflow using
batch processing capabilities and saved presets, and specialized
techniques that are only available with raw files such as Dual Process
Raw and High Dynamic Range (HDR) imaging.

Eric Meyer at MinneWebCon 2008
Apr 14, 2008
McNamara Alumni Center, Twin Cities Campus, University of Minnesota
Minneapolis, MN

Eric Meyer
Author Eric Meyer (CSS: The Definitive Guide, 3rd Ed. & CSS Pocket
Reference, 3rd Ed.) will be speaking at MinneWebCon 2008, located at the
University of Minnesota in the Twin Cities. This conference will deliver
a practical blend of technical and creative information from industry
practitioners and educators.

Derrick Story at NCMUG
Apr 15, 2008
Rohnert Park, CA
Author Derrick Story (The Digital Photography Companion, iPhoto 8: The
Missing Manual, and Digital Photography Hacks) presents "Digital
Photography Tips, Tricks, and Stunts." North Coast Mac Users Group.

FOWD - Future of Web Design
Apr 17-18, 2008
Kensington Town Hall
London, UK
Join the industry's leading and most inspirational designers for some
class A inspiration and practical advice. Putting the 'design' back into
web design, FOWD brings you a packed day of sessions on the entire
design process - from inspiration to build, project management and
evolution. You will enjoy a live Photoshop tennis session, where top
designers create from scratch on the stage. At breaks, stop by the
O'Reilly booth to say hi, and check out our great new books.

Web 2.0 Expo
San Francisco 	Web 2.0 Expo 2008
Apr 22-25, 2008
San Francisco, CA
Co-produced by O'Reilly Media and CMP Technology, the annual gathering
of technical, design, marketing, and business professionals, Web 2.0
Expo events bring together the innovators and industry figures building
the next generation web.

Derrick Story at Northbay Adobe User Group
Apr 28, 2008
Rm 1999 in Bech Hall
Santa Rosa Junior College, CA
Author Derrick Story (The Digital Photography Companion, iPhoto 8: The
Missing Manual, and Digital Photography Hacks) presents Adobe Camera Raw.

Conference News
O'Reilly 2008 MySQL Conference & Expo Registration is Open 2008 MySQL
Conference & Expo Registration is Open
April 14-17, 2008 in Santa Clara, CA
The largest gathering of MySQL developers, users, and DBAs worldwide,
the event reflects MySQL's wide-ranging appeal and capabilities. The
open atmosphere of the MySQL Conference & Expo helps IT professionals
and community members to create the best database applications, tools,
and software through expert instruction, hands-on tutorials, readily
available MySQL developers, and guru business advice.
Use code "mys08usrg" when you register, and receive 15% off the
registration price. Early registration discount deadline ends February
26. Click here to register for the conference.

O'Reilly Web Expo SF Conference Web Expo SF Registration is Open
April 22-25, 2008 in San Francisco, CA
A companion event to the Web 2.0 Summit, Web 2.0 Expo is an expanded,
inclusive gathering for the technology and business communities through
a combined conference and trade show.
Use code "websf08ug" when you register, and receive 15% off the early
registration price. Click here to register for the conference.

O'Reilly Where 2.0 2008 is Open Registration for Where 2.0 2008 is Open
May 12-14, 2008 in Burlingame, CA
At the O'Reilly Where 2.0 Conference, we expose the tools pushing the
boundaries of the location frontier, track the emergence of new business
models and services, and spend time examining new sources of data and
the platforms for collecting them.
Use code "whr08usrg" when you register, and receive 15% off the
registration price. Click here to register for the conference.

O'Reilly Registration for RailsConf 2008 is Open Registration for
RailsConf 2008 is Open
May 29-June 1, 2008 in Portland, OR
Co-produced by Ruby Central and O'Reilly Media, RailsConf is "the" event
for the growing Rails Community--the largest official gathering
dedicatedto everything Rails. If you're passionate about Rails and what
it helps you achieve--or if you're curious about how Rails can help you
create web applications better and faster--this conference is the place
to be. Early registration discount is available until April 10.
Use code "rc08usrg" when you register, and receive 15% off the
registration price. Click here to register for the conference.

O'Reilly GSP East Conference Registration for the O'Reilly GSP East
Conference is Open
June 9-11, 2008 in Washington, DC
GSP is the premier conference for developers and marketers building and
distributing apps for MySpace, Facebook, OpenSocial, and other social
networking platforms. Over three days of tutorials, sessions, and
keynotes, participants will explore how to reach online communities
using new and established social networking platforms and applications.
Use code "gspe08usrg" when you register, and receive 15% off the
registration price. Click here to register for the conference.

O'Reilly Velocity Conference Registration for the O'Reilly Velocity
Conference is Open
June 23-24, 2008 in Burlingame, CA
Velocity is designed to deliver the best information on building and
operating web sites that are fast, reliable, and always up. We're
bringing together people from around the world who are doing the best
performance work, to improve the experience of web users worldwide.
Pages will be faster. Sites will have higher up-time. Companies will
achieve more with less. The next cool startup will be able to more
quickly scale to serve a larger audience, globally. Velocity is the key
for crossing over from cool Web 2.0 features to sustainable web sites.
Use code "vel08usgr" when you register, and receive 15% off the
registration price. Early registration discount is available until May
5. Click here to register for the conference.

O'Reilly Web 2.0 Conference Web 2.0 Expo
September 16-19, 2008 in New York, NY
The Call for Participation is now open. Web 2.0 Expo is for the builders
of the next generation web: designers, developers, entrepreneurs,
marketers, business strategists, and venture capitalists. O'Reilly and
CMP are seeking the best and brightest in the Web 2.0 universe to show
the world how the next Internet Revolution is being designed and delivered.
To submit a proposal to speak at Web 2.0 Expo, go to:
http://en.oreilly.com/webexny2008/public/cfp/18

O'Reilly School of Technology

OST O'Reilly School of Technology Courses: UG Members Receive a 30% Discount
O'Reilly School of Technology has opened its virtual doors with
educational offerings and certification for IT students looking to
further their careers or to launch one. As an O'Reilly User Group
member, you save on all the courses in the following University of
Illinois Certificate Series:

    * PHP/SQL Programming
    * Linux/Unix System Administration
    * Web Programming
    * Open Source Programming
    * .NET Programming
    * Client-Side Web Programming featuring AJAX

(This discount is not combinable with other offers.)
To redeem, use Promotion Code "ORALL1" good for a 30% discount, in Step
#2 of the enrollment process. Each course comes with a free O'Reilly
book and a 7-day money-back guarantee. Register online. (This discount
may not be combinable with other offers.)

News from O'Reilly & Beyond

UG News

LugRadio Live USA 2008 comes to San Francisco
Featuring over 35 speakers and 40 exhibitors, LugRadio Live USA 2008
brings the popular UK conference to San Francisco, combining an
incredibly unique, social, and fun atmosphere to cover a range of
subjects in and around Open Source, digital rights, technology and more.
At only $10 for the full weekend, LugRadio Live USA 2008 is well within
anyone's reach, and if you encourage people to pre-register, you can win
an Asus EEEPC or Neuros OSD, O'Reilly books, and more. Want to share
this event on your website?

TechEd 2008: Get Involved with Birds-of-a-Feather
INETA is once again coordinating the Birds-of-a-Feather (BOF) sessions
at TechEd 2008. THey have extended the deadline for topic submissions to
Wed 4/2/2008 and the voting deadline to Monday, April 7.

LinuxFest Northwest 2008
LinuxFest Northwest is happening in April, the 26th and 27th. LFNW is an
annual, international, technical event focused on Linux and OpenSource
software that attracts around 1,000-2,000 attendees each year, the
majority from Canada, Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, and
California. Online registration is available for Presenters/Speakers.

LinuxWorld Now Accepting Applications Birds-of-a-Feather Topics and .org
Projects
If you'd like to lead a BOF discussion, submit an idea for a session by
Monday, May 5.

The .org Pavilion is your opportunity to exhibit your free open source
software and open source projects. They're looking for projects that
produce great software and can host an informative, helpful exhibit. The
deadline for submitting is Friday, April 11.

Two new research reports: "Virtual Worlds: A Business Guide" and "The
Facebook Application System" have been published by O'Reilly Radar.
Very limited review copies are available.

Virtual Worlds: A Business Guide
by Ben Lorica, Roger Magoulas, and the O'Reilly Radar Team

What's the real business opportunity in Second Life and other virtual
worlds? What trends and innovations point the way to success? Why have
some high-profile virtual worlds flopped? You'll find answers in this
report.

The Facebook Application Ecosytem: Why Some Thrive--and Most Don't
by Shelly D. Farnham, Ph.D

What do the killer apps on the Facebook platform have in common? What
must you build into your application if you want Facebook users to adopt
it--and pass it on to their friends? Get this report and find out.

Head First Caption Contest
The Head First team is extending the caption contest that was in our
puzzle book at SDWest and SXSW onto the Head First Labs site. For the
next two months, readers can submit their questions and have a chance to
win $200 in O'Reilly products. If you're familiar with Head First books,
you know each chapter starts with a retro picture and humorous caption.
Send us your suggestions for amusing or educational Head First-related
captions for three of our favorite images and we'll enter you in a
drawing to win $200 of O'Reilly products. The winner will be announced
in May Head First newsletter.

DIY O'Reilly Gear
Create Your Own Calendar, Shirt, Notebook, Poster...In just three easy
steps you can create one of a kind calendars, greeting cards, keychains,
luggage tags, magnets, mousepads, mugs, notebooks, postcards, posters,
shirts, hoodies, and stickers adorned with your favorite O'Reilly animals.

Articles

Step by Step: Configuring SSL Under Apache
This is the first in a new series of ONLamp articles you'll be seeing
over the next few months. They aren't breaking news about the hottest
new technologies, they're step by step guides to common but sometimes
complicated procedures you may have to tackle. In the first installment,
Juliet Kemp gives us a checklist that should have your Apache server
running SSL in nothing flat.

Using Zend Studio for PHP Programming
Most programmers are familiar with Eclipse, and PHP programmers are
familiar with Zend Studio. But, like two great tastes that taste good
together, the two have now been combined into a single tool. Learn how
you can use Zend Studio to make your PHP programming more productive.

Aperture 2 Features 101-103 with Joe Schorr
Apple's web page says, "Aperture 2 delivers over 100 dramatic, new
features." And still there are a few terrific ones they forgot to put on
the list. In this podcast, Derrick Story chats with Joe Schorr, Senior
Product Manager for Aperture, to uncover a few of these hidden gems.

Reverse Callback Templating
Many programmers know of the two main systems of templating. One embeds
actual source code into the template. The other provides a mini language
with loops, conditionals, and other control structures. There is a third
way--a reverse callback system. James Robson explains this
best-of-both-worlds approach by demonstrating Perl's Template::Recall
module.

Audio Insights from the 2008 Game Developers Conference
To hear the future of audio, listen to video games. Interactive Audio
expert Kurt Heiden did just that at the Game Developers Conference. He
brings you what the experts at GDC 2008 had to say about the state of
audio in games, and then dives into some of the technology advancements
that are changing the interactive audio landscape.

For more articles, go to: http://www.oreillynet.com/

Blogs
Windows IT Evangelist Matt Hester interviews Laurel Ackerman about
O'Reilly's new Up-to-Date Series at SXSW
MAKE Magazine highlighted on NPR: Digital DIY
Head First or Head Rush?
Julie Lerman blogs about writing her first book for O'Reilly
Quality Begs for Object-Orientation
The Dangers of The Death March Mentality
Find Some Serenity on Your Mac
Anton Security Tip of the Week #14: More access_log Fun: What Are You
Not GETting?
Windows Mobile Weekly Roundup
Pocket These Tips from Derrick Story
Jolting the Industry Again

For more blogs, go to: http://www.oreillynet.com/blogs/
Until next time?
Marsee Henon
Spreading the knowledge of innovators.O'Reilly.com
O'Reilly Media, Inc. 1005 Gravenstein Highway North, Sebastopol, CA 95472
http://ug.oreilly.com/   http://ug.oreilly.com/creativemedia/


From driveray at ameritech.net  Thu Mar 27 13:31:12 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 13:31:12 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] List sure is quiet
Message-ID: <47EBD9E0.9040106@ameritech.net>

Is this thing on?


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 27 13:53:17 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 10:53:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] List sure is quiet
In-Reply-To: <47EBD9E0.9040106@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <763843.86909.qm@web37912.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Spring Break.

I know I have not seen the list for about 5 days.

Raymond McLaughlin <driveray at ameritech.net> wrote: Is this thing on?
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


       
---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 27 13:56:45 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 10:56:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Q9300 & Lower Cost CPU's & More Cache
Message-ID: <919816.70918.qm@web37902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

On Newegg.com there is a Q9300 for 289.

And other CPU's are dropping.  This is very cool.

I'm looking at an intra-net server and the cost just got less.

David C. Lane 


       
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing.   Make Yahoo your homepage.


From tesral at comcast.net  Thu Mar 27 14:51:01 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 14:51:01 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] List sure is quiet
In-Reply-To: <47EBD9E0.9040106@ameritech.net>
References: <47EBD9E0.9040106@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <47EBEC95.8080700@comcast.net>

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Is this thing on?
>
>   
No, I have been off all week.  The only computer related thing I did was
plug a new CD burner into Gate, the old one was failing.  Yet one more
original part gone.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Mar 27 18:10:50 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:10:50 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Q9300 & Lower Cost CPU's & More Cach
In-Reply-To: <919816.70918.qm@web37902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <919816.70918.qm@web37902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803271510o31fac778mf027b8fdfb06da44@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 1:56 PM, David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Newegg.com there is a Q9300 for 289.
>
>  And other CPU's are dropping.  This is very cool.
>
>  I'm looking at an intra-net server and the cost just got less.
>
>  David C. Lane

Microcenter deal:

Processor & Memory Bundle
OEM Intel(R) Core? 2 Quad processor Q9300 - 552109

? 2.5GHz, 6MB L2 Cache
? 1333MHz Front Side Bus
? Built 45 nanometer technology
? 3 year warranty

$299.99
LIMIT ONE PER CUSTOMER

OCZ 2GB DDR2-800 Gold Kit (PC-6400) 240 Pins
(2 modules) - 549121

? Unbuffered
? Non-ECC
? Heat Spreader Heatsink

FREE with Q9300 Purchase


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Thu Mar 27 20:29:45 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:29:45 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] List sure is quiet
In-Reply-To: <47EBD9E0.9040106@ameritech.net>
References: <47EBD9E0.9040106@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <47EC3BF9.8060504@hotpop.com>

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Is this thing on?

Not sure...

Awfully dark, too.




From mdlug at sbcglobal.net  Thu Mar 27 20:49:19 2008
From: mdlug at sbcglobal.net (Dean Durant)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:49:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] nvidia fx 3700 800x600 only?
Message-ID: <921067.5792.qm@web81806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello, does anyone have any experience with this card, nvidia quadro fx 3700?
 
 nividia apparently has a universal driver for all or many of their video cards for linux.      This is Redhat EL 4 Update 6, an HP workstation.   It came preconfigured with 64 bit XP on it, and I was able to test the graphics card.   It did like 1920x1600 or something like that.   512 MB ram. 
 
 HP even has a driver for it.   I downloaded the driver, and finally got it to work (after too much struggle).     The driver seems to install OK.    But I only get 800x600, no higher.   Is there something else I have to do?     Probably modify, what is it, the X11.conf, or Xserv.conf?   Is there a howto for that?
 
 Does anyone have any experience with this card?   How about nvidia in general?     Thanks, Dean 
 


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Mar 27 21:32:56 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 21:32:56 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] nvidia fx 3700 800x600 only?
In-Reply-To: <921067.5792.qm@web81806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <921067.5792.qm@web81806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803271832p5ba50e06rec593592bc615c7@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 8:49 PM, Dean Durant <mdlug at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>   Does anyone have any experience with this card?   How about nvidia in general?     Thanks, Dean

I've never used a Quadro but I suspect it's not much different from
other Nvidia card installations and under Fedora it is probably
similar to the Enterprise version.  Check out these threads:

http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=183139
http://fedorasolved.org/video-solutions/nvidia-yum-livna


From rrclark at rrclark.net  Fri Mar 28 08:30:01 2008
From: rrclark at rrclark.net (Rich Clark <rrclark@rrclark.net>)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 08:30:01 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] nvidia fx 3700 800x600 only?
In-Reply-To: <921067.5792.qm@web81806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <921067.5792.qm@web81806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.1.00.0803280829270.18377@rich.private.rrclark.net>

On Thu, 27 Mar 2008, Dean Durant wrote:

> Hello, does anyone have any experience with this card, nvidia quadro fx 
> 3700?
>
> nividia apparently has a universal driver for all or many of their video 
> cards for linux.  This is Redhat EL 4 Update 6, an HP workstation.  It 
> came preconfigured with 64 bit XP on it, and I was able to test the 
> graphics card.  It did like 1920x1600 or something like that.  512 MB 
> ram.
>
> HP even has a driver for it.  I downloaded the driver, and finally got 
> it to work (after too much struggle).  The driver seems to install OK. 
> But I only get 800x600, no higher.  Is there something else I have to 
> do?  Probably modify, what is it, the X11.conf, or Xserv.conf?  Is there 
> a howto for that?
>
> Does anyone have any experience with this card?  How about nvidia in 
> general?

Sounds like you need to define some mode lines for the monitor or better 
identify the monitor in your xorg.conf.


From tony at bemushosting.com  Fri Mar 28 09:28:55 2008
From: tony at bemushosting.com (Tony Bemus)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 09:28:55 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] nvidia fx 3700 800x600 only?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.1.00.0803280829270.18377@rich.private.rrclark.net>
References: <921067.5792.qm@web81806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.LRH.1.00.0803280829270.18377@rich.private.rrclark.net>
Message-ID: <1206710935.5754.4.camel@bemus-tony.bemus>

I don't have experience with that card specifically,  but with my nvidia
card the drivers installed the "nvidia-settings" package and that can
help you configure your display settings.  you may need to be as root or
su,  but in a terminal window enter nvidia-settings and a gui window
will open,  and it will edit your xorg.conf file for your.  if you have
some settings in the file you may want to backup the file first.

cp /etc/X11/xorg.conf xorgconf.bak

Tony Bemus



On Fri, 2008-03-28 at 08:30 -0400, Rich Clark wrote:

> On Thu, 27 Mar 2008, Dean Durant wrote:
> 
> > Hello, does anyone have any experience with this card, nvidia quadro fx 
> > 3700?
> >
> > nividia apparently has a universal driver for all or many of their video 
> > cards for linux.  This is Redhat EL 4 Update 6, an HP workstation.  It 
> > came preconfigured with 64 bit XP on it, and I was able to test the 
> > graphics card.  It did like 1920x1600 or something like that.  512 MB 
> > ram.
> >
> > HP even has a driver for it.  I downloaded the driver, and finally got 
> > it to work (after too much struggle).  The driver seems to install OK. 
> > But I only get 800x600, no higher.  Is there something else I have to 
> > do?  Probably modify, what is it, the X11.conf, or Xserv.conf?  Is there 
> > a howto for that?
> >
> > Does anyone have any experience with this card?  How about nvidia in 
> > general?
> 
> Sounds like you need to define some mode lines for the monitor or better 
> identify the monitor in your xorg.conf.
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 28 09:39:51 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 06:39:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] IPCOP: Still having problems
Message-ID: <121063.65770.qm@web37912.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

The early part of implementing IPCOP when well.  But I'm having problems with NIC cards.


1. The RED-GREEN works fine I was able to serf in internet , after the station DHCP'd the proper address. 
2. How ever the instant I add another network interface for a RED-GREEN-ORANGE I cant see the.


Solutions: 
1. Intel 10/100/1000 Duel j45 port card. on Newegg it is 159.99 
    This might work since there is one irq and address for the system to resolve.

2. Update the BIOS, this is an ECS board, I have have problems with it before.  

3. Get a different Motherboard.

4. Change the Address and IRQ in current NIC cards. 
    I like this option because it is practical, but How is that done.  I think this is the problem the NIC cards are conflicting.

Any thoughts would be helpful.

David C. Lane 









      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Fri Mar 28 12:39:04 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 12:39:04 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] IPCOP: Still having problems
In-Reply-To: <121063.65770.qm@web37912.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <121063.65770.qm@web37912.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803280939t66f1c7a1ocebd9d9ef5d6e8bc@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 9:39 AM, David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com> wrote:
> The early part of implementing IPCOP when well.  But I'm having problems with NIC cards.
>
>
>  1. The RED-GREEN works fine I was able to serf in internet , after the station DHCP'd the proper address.
>  2. How ever the instant I add another network interface for a RED-GREEN-ORANGE I cant see the.

Sounds like a routing or firewall issue.

>  Solutions:
>  1. Intel 10/100/1000 Duel j45 port card. on Newegg it is 159.99
>     This might work since there is one irq and address for the system to resolve.
>
>  2. Update the BIOS, this is an ECS board, I have have problems with it before.
>
>  3. Get a different Motherboard.
>
>  4. Change the Address and IRQ in current NIC cards.
>     I like this option because it is practical, but How is that done.  I think this is the problem the NIC cards are conflicting.
>

I have an old K6/2-350MHz with six NICs (5 PCI and 1 ISA) and they're
all different makes.  Obviously some are sharing IRQs even though I
disabled every other preripheral including the AGP video IRQ and the
second IDE interface.  They all work although they aren't seeing much
of a load currently.  I'm using the Extra Interfaces add-on:
http://www.ban-solms.de/t/IPCop-xtiface.html

One difference with my setup is that all the cards were installed when
I installed IPCop.  I then figured out which card was assigned to
which interface and marked it accordingly.  Because of  the age of the
BIOS I am also forcing ACPI on.

I would try updating the BIOS first because it doesn't cost anything.


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Fri Mar 28 22:25:46 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 22:25:46 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: [opensuse-offtopic] Adobe Unleashes Photoshop
	Free-for-All]
Message-ID: <47EDA8AA.9020802@hotpop.com>



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [opensuse-offtopic] Adobe Unleashes Photoshop Free-for-All
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 21:20:09 -0400
From: Fred A. Miller <fmiller at lightlink.com>
Reply-To: fmiller at lightlink.com
To: opensuse-offtopic <opensuse-offtopic at opensuse.org>

Adobe Unleashes Photoshop Free-for-All
------------------------------------------------------------

If a picture is worth a thousand words, what does it cost to
edit the picture with Photoshop? As of right now, the only cost
is Internet access with a modern Web browser. Adobe Systems has
launched an online photo editing tool that's free to anyone who
wants to edit, store, sort and show off their digital photos --
up to 2 GB worth.

See the Full Story:
http://www.technewsworld.com/story/62324.html

-- 
"Security" in Windows comes from patching a sieve.




From danno at umich.edu  Sat Mar 29 09:11:42 2008
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 09:11:42 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: [opensuse-offtopic] Adobe Unleashes Photoshop
	Free-for-All]
In-Reply-To: <47EDA8AA.9020802@hotpop.com>
References: <47EDA8AA.9020802@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <20080329131142.GA51383@maniac.deathstar.org>

I played with this the other night.

It's a big flash applet.  It's remarkable how much it can do.

flash is certainly not trouble-free but it seems like it is delivering
on the run-everywhere promise that java made 10 years ago.

On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 10:25:46PM -0400, Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> 
> 
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [opensuse-offtopic] Adobe Unleashes Photoshop Free-for-All
> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 21:20:09 -0400
> From: Fred A. Miller <fmiller at lightlink.com>
> Reply-To: fmiller at lightlink.com
> To: opensuse-offtopic <opensuse-offtopic at opensuse.org>
> 
> Adobe Unleashes Photoshop Free-for-All
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> If a picture is worth a thousand words, what does it cost to
> edit the picture with Photoshop? As of right now, the only cost
> is Internet access with a modern Web browser. Adobe Systems has
> launched an online photo editing tool that's free to anyone who
> wants to edit, store, sort and show off their digital photos --
> up to 2 GB worth.
> 
> See the Full Story:
> http://www.technewsworld.com/story/62324.html
> 
> -- 
> "Security" in Windows comes from patching a sieve.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 29 12:21:52 2008
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 12:21:52 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Knoppix 5.3.1 is out!
Message-ID: <b67fb0380803290921o144946fdh79bf99b0c3c639cd@mail.gmail.com>

DVD-only this time, apparently...

<http://distrowatch.com/?newsid=04817>

~~ Mikey


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sat Mar 29 12:59:41 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 12:59:41 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Knoppix 5.3.1 is out!
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380803290921o144946fdh79bf99b0c3c639cd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380803290921o144946fdh79bf99b0c3c639cd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803290959m24d3b6a7ud35cec7461b1c040@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 12:21 PM, Michael Rudas <audiotech50 at gmail.com> wrote:
> DVD-only this time, apparently...
>
>  <http://distrowatch.com/?newsid=04817>

It will be out later.  I prefer the CD over the DVD for the systems I
work with.  Early comments and a review:
http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28596&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20

I wonder if they will come out with a BD version next time with the
entire Debian repos.


From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Sat Mar 29 21:23:35 2008
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Robert Meier)
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 21:23:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] daily(weekly) mail
Message-ID: <20080330012335.93197127CF9@starfox.local>

Editors,

I'm looking to send mail periodically (weekly?) to a small (<20) group.
I'm looking to learn if anyone knows any existing tools to help.
The required features include:
    o queueing of unapproved submissions by mail
    o easy ability to view and approve/reject submissions
    o moderator notification (by mail) of submissions
    o ability of moderator to schedule mail for future transmission (typ. +1wk)
    o unattended transmission of approved mail at scheduled time (+/- 1hr)
    o warning to moderator if there is no mail scheduled (e.g. for next week)

For the near term, a single mail group (managed elsewhere) will be the
sole recipient.
Later the ability of receivers to add/remove themselves mail list style
would be useful.

My understanding is that majordomo could handle part of the requirements,
but not scheduling of individual mail,
nor warning of schedule gaps.

Before writing my own cronjobs,
I was hoping there might be existing tools for this task.

TIA,
-- 
Bob

  "An engineer reports to the gates of hell and is let in.
   Pretty soon the engineer gets dissatisfied with the level of comfort
   in hell, and starts designing and building improvements.
   After a while they've got air conditioning and flush toilets and
   escalators, and the engineer is a pretty popular guy.
   One day God calls Satan on the telephone and says with a sneer,
   'So, how's it going down there in hell?'
   Satan replies, 'Hey, things are going great.
   We've  got air conditioning and flush toilets and escalators, and
   there's no telling what this engineer is going to come up with next.'  
   God replies, 'What??? You've got an engineer?
   That's a mistake -- he should never have gone down there;
   send him up here.'
   Satan says, 'No way. I like having an engineer on the staff,
   and I'm keeping him.'
   God says, 'Send him back up here or I'll sue.'
   Satan laughs uproariously and answers, 'Yeah, right.
   And  just where are YOU going to get a lawyer?'"
	-- unknown


From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Sat Mar 29 21:34:22 2008
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Robert Meier)
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 21:34:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Recent pwn-2-own Security Contest
Message-ID: <20080330013422.A18D4127CFA@starfox.local>


http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com/2008/03/ubuntu-beats-osx-and-vista-in-pwn-2-own.html

Both Windows and OSX were exploited during the competition, however the
Ubuntu machine remained secure ;)

Reporting,
-- 
Bob

  "Nothing has such power to broaden the mind,
   as the ability to investigate systematically and truly,
   all that comes under thy observation in life."
     -- Marcus Aurelius



From otakurider at gmail.com  Sun Mar 30 10:47:45 2008
From: otakurider at gmail.com (-)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 10:47:45 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Annoying error
Message-ID: <cd5131a50803300747i6860afb6m69e0b3bbdeabb12e@mail.gmail.com>

I have this error some times when closing out of some GTK+ use apps -
pidgin, Evolution calendar, also in xsession-errors file some times.   It
dos not cause a issues that I can see with the apps or system stability.
searching results kind of vague talks about dbus bug in network manager app
but I have not install the app.


libnm_glib_nm_state_cb: dbus returned an error.
  (org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown) The name
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager was not provided by any .service files



I am running Fedora 8, 1G ram using gnome as desktop with Desktop effects
enabled,  Also using Nvidi card duel ,monitor setup.


Thanks

Pat


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Sun Mar 30 20:04:10 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 20:04:10 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Is ATT Playing Traffic Cop??
Message-ID: <1206921850.24841.78.camel@peter-notebook.site>

Hello To Those Left Behind,
	I tried today to send a short .avi file to my brother in law depicting
me trying out my new fountain pens. I have ATT DSL service and I could
not send it for anything. Either wireless, wired, nothing. The second I
removed the .avi file away it went. Does anyone else have this problem
as well? I send pictures all the time, which are usually relatively
small. I wonder if it has to do with the size? Yes, this is probably the
first time I ever sent a movie via email.

Best Regards,
	
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From newmaniese at gmail.com  Sun Mar 30 20:41:33 2008
From: newmaniese at gmail.com (Michael)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 20:41:33 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Is ATT Playing Traffic Cop??
In-Reply-To: <1206921850.24841.78.camel@peter-notebook.site>
References: <1206921850.24841.78.camel@peter-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <225acb190803301741p12e711ddvc0703ef41da004d1@mail.gmail.com>

What was the size of the file? What mail carrier were you trying to
send it from (gmail, att, yahoo, etc.)? What program were you sending
it from(Webmail, Thunderbird, etc.)?

My bet is that the file was just to big and your mail program didn't
know what to do with the file. Video over e-mail is a bit of a task
for e-mail. Gmail has the most transfer for email and that is around
17-20 mb. With hotmail before I left I think I had less than 2 mb
maxium. At work I think I have a even smaller limit.

I wouldn't put it past ATT to throttle and block some internet traffic
(heck they gave the government my phone records), but it would be way
too scandalous for them to block all movie files.

Let's get the bottom of this one quickly,
Michael


On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 8:04 PM, Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:
> Hello To Those Left Behind,
>         I tried today to send a short .avi file to my brother in law depicting
>  me trying out my new fountain pens. I have ATT DSL service and I could
>  not send it for anything. Either wireless, wired, nothing. The second I
>  removed the .avi file away it went. Does anyone else have this problem
>  as well? I send pictures all the time, which are usually relatively
>  small. I wonder if it has to do with the size? Yes, this is probably the
>  first time I ever sent a movie via email.
>
>  Best Regards,
>
>  --
>  Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
>  http://petertheplumber.net
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  mdlug mailing list
>  mdlug at mdlug.org
>  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Sun Mar 30 22:37:24 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 22:37:24 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Is ATT Playing Traffic Cop??
In-Reply-To: <225acb190803301741p12e711ddvc0703ef41da004d1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1206921850.24841.78.camel@peter-notebook.site>
	<225acb190803301741p12e711ddvc0703ef41da004d1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1206931044.24841.89.camel@peter-notebook.site>


On Sun, 2008-03-30 at 20:41 -0400, Michael wrote:
> What was the size of the file? What mail carrier were you trying to
> send it from (gmail, att, yahoo, etc.)? What program were you sending
> it from(Webmail, Thunderbird, etc.)?
> 
> My bet is that the file was just to big and your mail program didn't
> know what to do with the file. Video over e-mail is a bit of a task
> for e-mail. Gmail has the most transfer for email and that is around
> 17-20 mb. With hotmail before I left I think I had less than 2 mb
> maxium. At work I think I have a even smaller limit.
> 
> I wouldn't put it past ATT to throttle and block some internet traffic
> (heck they gave the government my phone records), but it would be way
> too scandalous for them to block all movie files.
> 
> Let's get the bottom of this one quickly,
> Michael
> 
> 
> On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 8:04 PM, Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:
> > Hello To Those Left Behind,
> >         I tried today to send a short .avi file to my brother in law depicting
> >  me trying out my new fountain pens. I have ATT DSL service and I could
> >  not send it for anything. Either wireless, wired, nothing. The second I
> >  removed the .avi file away it went. Does anyone else have this problem
> >  as well? I send pictures all the time, which are usually relatively
> >  small. I wonder if it has to do with the size? Yes, this is probably the
> >  first time I ever sent a movie via email.
> >
> >  

	The client is Evolution on openSUSE 10.3, the provider is ATT. The file
itself was roughly 80mb.

Best Regards,
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 31 01:27:41 2008
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 01:27:41 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Is ATT Playing Traffic Cop??
In-Reply-To: <1206921850.24841.78.camel@peter-notebook.site>
References: <1206921850.24841.78.camel@peter-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380803302227u49445edx4f3f180fb83e3146@mail.gmail.com>

--- Peter Bart wrote:

>   I tried today to send a short .avi file to my brother in law depicting
>  me trying out my new fountain pens. I have ATT DSL service and I could
>  not send it for anything. Either wireless, wired, nothing.

80MB is too big -- there's a 20 MB limit on file attachments.  Find an
upload service that lets you host a file, then link to it, or split it
into chunks.

You might also try Pando, which is a cross between attachments and
BitTorrent.  I have not tried it, but there IS a Linux client
available.

~~ Mikey


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Mon Mar 31 02:40:44 2008
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 02:40:44 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Is ATT Playing Traffic Cop??
In-Reply-To: <1206931044.24841.89.camel@peter-notebook.site>
References: <1206921850.24841.78.camel@peter-notebook.site>	<225acb190803301741p12e711ddvc0703ef41da004d1@mail.gmail.com>
	<1206931044.24841.89.camel@peter-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <47F0876C.10207@hotpop.com>

Peter Bart wrote:
> On Sun, 2008-03-30 at 20:41 -0400, Michael wrote:
>> What was the size of the file? What mail carrier were you trying to
>> send it from (gmail, att, yahoo, etc.)? What program were you sending
>> it from(Webmail, Thunderbird, etc.)?
>>
>> My bet is that the file was just to big and your mail program didn't
>> know what to do with the file. Video over e-mail is a bit of a task
>> for e-mail. Gmail has the most transfer for email and that is around
>> 17-20 mb. With hotmail before I left I think I had less than 2 mb
>> maxium. At work I think I have a even smaller limit.
>>
>> I wouldn't put it past ATT to throttle and block some internet traffic
>> (heck they gave the government my phone records), but it would be way
>> too scandalous for them to block all movie files.
>>
>> Let's get the bottom of this one quickly,
>> Michael
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 8:04 PM, Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:
>>> Hello To Those Left Behind,
>>>         I tried today to send a short .avi file to my brother in law depicting
>>>  me trying out my new fountain pens. I have ATT DSL service and I could
>>>  not send it for anything. Either wireless, wired, nothing. The second I
>>>  removed the .avi file away it went. Does anyone else have this problem
>>>  as well? I send pictures all the time, which are usually relatively
>>>  small. I wonder if it has to do with the size? Yes, this is probably the
>>>  first time I ever sent a movie via email.
>>>
>>>  
> 
> 	The client is Evolution on openSUSE 10.3, the provider is ATT.
 > The file itself was roughly 80mb.
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That's your problem right there.



> 
> Best Regards,





From wolfger at gmail.com  Mon Mar 31 08:17:48 2008
From: wolfger at gmail.com (Wolfger)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 08:17:48 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] daily(weekly) mail
In-Reply-To: <20080330012335.93197127CF9@starfox.local>
References: <20080330012335.93197127CF9@starfox.local>
Message-ID: <3b00b3330803310517x63a252edrc3afc81dd85bf64f@mail.gmail.com>

I think you'll be writing some cron jobs... Most group blogging
software will let you schedule posts, but I've never heard of mailing
list software scheduling posts like that. It's...
un-mailing-list-like.

On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 9:23 PM, Robert Meier
<list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Editors,
>
>  I'm looking to send mail periodically (weekly?) to a small (<20) group.
>  I'm looking to learn if anyone knows any existing tools to help.
>  The required features include:
>     o queueing of unapproved submissions by mail
>     o easy ability to view and approve/reject submissions
>     o moderator notification (by mail) of submissions
>     o ability of moderator to schedule mail for future transmission (typ. +1wk)
>     o unattended transmission of approved mail at scheduled time (+/- 1hr)
>     o warning to moderator if there is no mail scheduled (e.g. for next week)
>
>  For the near term, a single mail group (managed elsewhere) will be the
>  sole recipient.
>  Later the ability of receivers to add/remove themselves mail list style
>  would be useful.
>
>  My understanding is that majordomo could handle part of the requirements,
>  but not scheduling of individual mail,
>  nor warning of schedule gaps.
>
>  Before writing my own cronjobs,
>  I was hoping there might be existing tools for this task.
>
>  TIA,
>  --
>  Bob
>
>   "An engineer reports to the gates of hell and is let in.
>    Pretty soon the engineer gets dissatisfied with the level of comfort
>    in hell, and starts designing and building improvements.
>    After a while they've got air conditioning and flush toilets and
>    escalators, and the engineer is a pretty popular guy.
>    One day God calls Satan on the telephone and says with a sneer,
>    'So, how's it going down there in hell?'
>    Satan replies, 'Hey, things are going great.
>    We've  got air conditioning and flush toilets and escalators, and
>    there's no telling what this engineer is going to come up with next.'
>    God replies, 'What??? You've got an engineer?
>    That's a mistake -- he should never have gone down there;
>    send him up here.'
>    Satan says, 'No way. I like having an engineer on the staff,
>    and I'm keeping him.'
>    God says, 'Send him back up here or I'll sue.'
>    Satan laughs uproariously and answers, 'Yeah, right.
>    And  just where are YOU going to get a lawyer?'"
>         -- unknown
>  _______________________________________________
>  mdlug mailing list
>  mdlug at mdlug.org
>  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>



-- 
Wolfger
http://wolfger.wordpress.com/
AOL IM: wolf4coyot
Yahoo!Messenger: wolfgersilberbaer


From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Mon Mar 31 08:09:54 2008
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 08:09:54 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Annoying error
In-Reply-To: <cd5131a50803300747i6860afb6m69e0b3bbdeabb12e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cd5131a50803300747i6860afb6m69e0b3bbdeabb12e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE055F7B10@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

>From the error, my first question would be, "Do you have NetworkManager
installed and running?"  Maybe try re-installing it?

Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of -
Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 10:48 AM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: [mdlug] Annoying error

I have this error some times when closing out of some GTK+ use apps -
pidgin, Evolution calendar, also in xsession-errors file some times.
It
dos not cause a issues that I can see with the apps or system stability.
searching results kind of vague talks about dbus bug in network manager
app
but I have not install the app.


libnm_glib_nm_state_cb: dbus returned an error.
  (org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown) The name
org.freedesktop.NetworkManager was not provided by any .service files



I am running Fedora 8, 1G ram using gnome as desktop with Desktop
effects
enabled,  Also using Nvidi card duel ,monitor setup.


Thanks

Pat
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From gib at juno.com  Mon Mar 31 09:05:33 2008
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 13:05:33 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] Penguicon
Message-ID: <20080331.090533.7251.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>

 
Penguicon is coming up fast.  Do we have any plans?

_____________________________________________________________
Click for a free comparison on healthcare coverage and save 100's.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iifSj0iMq0dwjqHtCT1hZizNcBUmE5saXpPd2YbsWKsbcCCnK/


From radkins at impelind.com  Mon Mar 31 09:20:57 2008
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 09:20:57 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Is ATT Playing Traffic Cop??
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380803302227u49445edx4f3f180fb83e3146@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080331132027.AFE33C0CF@impelind.com>

> 
> 80MB is too big -- there's a 20 MB limit on file attachments. 
>  Find an upload service that lets you host a file, then link 
> to it, or split it into chunks.
> 

  The 20MB limit is not a hard limit, it is dependent upon the receiving
email server's setup.

  We have some customers that want to send us single files that even when
zipped are just over 20mb. So, I upped the limit on receivable file sizes to
just over 20mb and we receive their email with no problem.

	-Rob



From tesral at comcast.net  Mon Mar 31 10:21:39 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 10:21:39 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Penguicon
In-Reply-To: <20080331.090533.7251.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20080331.090533.7251.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <47F0F373.20406@comcast.net>

gib at juno.com wrote:
>  
> Penguicon is coming up fast.  Do we have any plans?
>
>   

I will be there.


-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Mar 31 11:15:41 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 11:15:41 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Penguicon
In-Reply-To: <20080331.090533.7251.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20080331.090533.7251.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90803310815odbd7f70w4eac3582b3984233@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 9:05 AM, gib at juno.com <gib at juno.com> wrote:
>
>  Penguicon is coming up fast.  Do we have any plans?

I will be there with a few friends from Alpena.


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Mon Mar 31 16:34:18 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 16:34:18 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] DEFCON at Big Lots for $6, too.
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0371654E1@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

A while back I posted about finding Introversion Software's game Darwinia at
Big Lots for $6. While on vacation last week, I found DEFCON at a Kentucky
Big Lots, also for $6. I snapped it up immediately. Introversion makes good,
unusual, thoughtful games and I'd been meaning to get DEFCON at some point
anyway, having played the demo.

 It's based on the simulation contained within the movie "WarGames". The look
is very similar, and the idea is the same - conduct a global thermonuclear
war, and lose the least.

 All of their games can be played on Linux, with first-class ports. You can
download the DEFCON demo here:

 http://www.everybody-dies.com/downloads/

 All you need to convert it to a full version is the authorization code
found on the manual of a boxed set. It ran beautifully at full speed and
resolution on my laptop (1024x768, Geforce2Go 16MB).

 At $6, it's a steal. I'm pretty sure it'll be at at least a few Big Lots
in Michigan, too.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                 (313) 227-2317

  Modern deductive method: 1) Devise hypothesis. 2) Apply
 for grant.  3) Perform experiments. 4) Revise hypothesis.
     5) Backdate revised hypothesis. 6) Publish.
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 31 18:09:01 2008
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 18:09:01 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Is ATT Playing Traffic Cop??
In-Reply-To: <20080331132027.AFE33C0CF@impelind.com>
References: <b67fb0380803302227u49445edx4f3f180fb83e3146@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080331132027.AFE33C0CF@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380803311509g2b89168eqbe1f6bec58024af6@mail.gmail.com>

--- Robert Adkins wrote:

>> 80MB is too big -- there's a 20 MB limit on file attachments.
>>  Find an upload service that lets you host a file, then link
>> to it, or split it into chunks.

>  The 20MB limit is not a hard limit, it is dependent upon the receiving
>  email server's setup.

WRONG.  AT&T & Yahoo! paid e-mail accounts have a hard limit of 20MB
per e-mail on outbound attachments -- free accounts have a 10MB limit.
 I've been an Ameritech/SBC/AT&T DSL customer for about 7 years.

~~ Mikey


From mdlug3 at arb.net  Mon Mar 31 19:44:55 2008
From: mdlug3 at arb.net (Dave Arbogast)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 19:44:55 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Is ATT Playing Traffic Cop??
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380803311509g2b89168eqbe1f6bec58024af6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380803302227u49445edx4f3f180fb83e3146@mail.gmail.com>	<20080331132027.AFE33C0CF@impelind.com>
	<b67fb0380803311509g2b89168eqbe1f6bec58024af6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47F17777.7060108@arb.net>

Hi Mikey, you might want to shop around...  I was a Speakeasy DSL 
customer for years... Then last year I took the Bait and Switch for 
Comcast Commercial internet (falsely claimed 10m down and 256k up) . I 
quickly found they were traffic shaping my traffic to Vonage. Their 
boarder routers would add latency of up to 3 seconds to my little 8kps 
packets to vonage and flat out drop a large under of  packets to vonage. 
Customer support was always "the solution is to buy our internet phone 
service." I dumped them and moved 2 blocks, but they kept billing me 
until the bill hit $505 for service I did not have and I filed a 
complaint with the MPSC....

Then I shopped Covad resellers and found DSL had gone to 6m down and 
786k up for less than I was paying for 1.5m down and 384k up.  WOW !!!!  
Speakeasy is a Covad reseller and they never mentioned my service could 
be many times faster for less money.

-dave

Michael Rudas wrote:

>--- Robert Adkins wrote:
>
>  
>
>>>80MB is too big -- there's a 20 MB limit on file attachments.
>>> Find an upload service that lets you host a file, then link
>>>to it, or split it into chunks.
>>>      
>>>
>
>  
>
>> The 20MB limit is not a hard limit, it is dependent upon the receiving
>> email server's setup.
>>    
>>
>
>WRONG.  AT&T & Yahoo! paid e-mail accounts have a hard limit of 20MB
>per e-mail on outbound attachments -- free accounts have a 10MB limit.
> I've been an Ameritech/SBC/AT&T DSL customer for about 7 years.
>
>~~ Mikey
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>  
>


From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Mon Mar 31 23:25:53 2008
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Robert Meier)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 23:25:53 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] (dis)recommendations for blogging software [Was:
	daily(weekly) mail]
In-Reply-To: <3b00b3330803310517x63a252edrc3afc81dd85bf64f@mail.gmail.com>
	(message from Wolfger on Mon, 31 Mar 2008 08:17:48 -0400)
References: <20080330012335.93197127CF9@starfox.local>
	<3b00b3330803310517x63a252edrc3afc81dd85bf64f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080401032553.53DC019E619@starfox.local>

Wolfger,

>> I'm looking to send mail periodically (weekly?) to a small (<20) group.
>> I'm looking to learn if anyone knows any existing tools to help.
>> The required features include:
>>    o queueing of unapproved submissions by mail
>>    o easy ability to view and approve/reject submissions
>>    o moderator notification (by mail) of submissions
>>    o moderator ability to schedule mail for future transmission (typ. +1wk)
>>    o unattended transmission of approved mail at scheduled time (+/- 1hr)
>>    o warning to moderator if there is no mail scheduled (e.g. for next week)
> I think you'll be writing some cron jobs...

So I figured, but thought it worth asking.

What blogging software (and features) do people (dis)recommend?

Inquiring minds want to know,
-- 
Bob

  "The process of scientific discovery is,
   in effect, a continual flight from wonder."
     -- Albert Einstein


