From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Mon Dec  1 09:29:29 2008
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 09:29:29 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools
Message-ID: <268F49D5ADF245A0924E695327BE5CD8@AMD2000>

Lug nuts,

I'm looking for some recommendations, specifically for the CentOS 5.2 
distribution, for a centralized package management system or tools.  I've 
spent some time doing vaious Google searches, but haven't found what I was 
looking for aside from basic tools such as 'yum' and 'up2date', which are 
designed to run on a single host.  I was hoping that I would stumble upon 
some existing tools that could be leveraged in an existing environment.
What I would really like is:
* Gui tools (browser based).
* Internal centralized server (package repository).
* Centralized management (for development, QA, & production).
* Ability to schedule updates and manually push updates.
* Auditing capabilities (which servers have what packages installed).
* Ability to manage servers by group (e.g. Dev App servers).

Running 'yum -update' from cron on each server isn't a good strategy, 
especially when it comes to production systems.  I would like to have the 
capability to pull down patches to a centralized server, then push the 
patches/updates to the development/QA environment, and finally out to the 
production systems after testing is completed.
Is that too much to ask for.  :-)
Any suggestions/recommendations/ideas?

Thanks,
Mike 



From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Mon Dec  1 09:38:39 2008
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 09:38:39 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools
In-Reply-To: <268F49D5ADF245A0924E695327BE5CD8@AMD2000>
References: <268F49D5ADF245A0924E695327BE5CD8@AMD2000>
Message-ID: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06949009@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

Ah, the holy grail for CentOS/RHEL systems (aside from paying Red Hat
$13,000 a year for a satellite server!).

I am looking for the same thing (and I'm sure any other Linux Sysadmin
is) for years.  I'm still using the strategy of "install updates on dev
server, keep the rpm's that were downloaded, move them to test, then
production, and pray to God that the same packages are in sync across
all environments."  

Not very efficient.  I've been looking into building a yum server and
configuring the yum-updatesd to download the packages that I roll out.
A little better than using cron, but not by much.

I'd be interested to hear if you find anything.

Greg Wojtak

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Michael ORourke
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:29 AM
To: MDLUG's main mailing list
Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools

Lug nuts,

I'm looking for some recommendations, specifically for the CentOS 5.2 
distribution, for a centralized package management system or tools.
I've 
spent some time doing vaious Google searches, but haven't found what I
was 
looking for aside from basic tools such as 'yum' and 'up2date', which
are 
designed to run on a single host.  I was hoping that I would stumble
upon 
some existing tools that could be leveraged in an existing environment.
What I would really like is:
* Gui tools (browser based).
* Internal centralized server (package repository).
* Centralized management (for development, QA, & production).
* Ability to schedule updates and manually push updates.
* Auditing capabilities (which servers have what packages installed).
* Ability to manage servers by group (e.g. Dev App servers).

Running 'yum -update' from cron on each server isn't a good strategy, 
especially when it comes to production systems.  I would like to have
the 
capability to pull down patches to a centralized server, then push the 
patches/updates to the development/QA environment, and finally out to
the 
production systems after testing is completed.
Is that too much to ask for.  :-)
Any suggestions/recommendations/ideas?

Thanks,
Mike 

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Mon Dec  1 10:32:52 2008
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 10:32:52 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools
References: <268F49D5ADF245A0924E695327BE5CD8@AMD2000>
	<8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06949009@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
Message-ID: <BB748E0148D044A7B356D1327849B67A@AMD2000>

Here are some tools that I have found so far...

Auditing:
http://pakiti.sourceforge.net/

Yum/Apt repository tool:
http://dag.wieers.com/home-made/mrepo/

Install server:
https://fedorahosted.org/cobbler/

Centralized Package management:
http://current.tigris.org/

The last one, current, looks to be the most promising.  But it appears that 
it has not had any recent development for about 2 years now.  And with a 
project name of 'current', it's a bit difficult to find any additional info 
other than their own website.  :-)

-Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Wojtak, Greg
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools


Ah, the holy grail for CentOS/RHEL systems (aside from paying Red Hat
$13,000 a year for a satellite server!).

I am looking for the same thing (and I'm sure any other Linux Sysadmin
is) for years.  I'm still using the strategy of "install updates on dev
server, keep the rpm's that were downloaded, move them to test, then
production, and pray to God that the same packages are in sync across
all environments."

Not very efficient.  I've been looking into building a yum server and
configuring the yum-updatesd to download the packages that I roll out.
A little better than using cron, but not by much.

I'd be interested to hear if you find anything.

Greg Wojtak

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Michael ORourke
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:29 AM
To: MDLUG's main mailing list
Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools

Lug nuts,

I'm looking for some recommendations, specifically for the CentOS 5.2
distribution, for a centralized package management system or tools.
I've
spent some time doing vaious Google searches, but haven't found what I
was
looking for aside from basic tools such as 'yum' and 'up2date', which
are
designed to run on a single host.  I was hoping that I would stumble
upon
some existing tools that could be leveraged in an existing environment.
What I would really like is:
* Gui tools (browser based).
* Internal centralized server (package repository).
* Centralized management (for development, QA, & production).
* Ability to schedule updates and manually push updates.
* Auditing capabilities (which servers have what packages installed).
* Ability to manage servers by group (e.g. Dev App servers).

Running 'yum -update' from cron on each server isn't a good strategy,
especially when it comes to production systems.  I would like to have
the
capability to pull down patches to a centralized server, then push the
patches/updates to the development/QA environment, and finally out to
the
production systems after testing is completed.
Is that too much to ask for.  :-)
Any suggestions/recommendations/ideas?

Thanks,
Mike

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.12/1822 - Release Date: 12/1/2008 
8:23 AM 



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Mon Dec  1 14:45:21 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 14:45:21 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

A couple weeks ago, Windows XP stopped booting on my downstairs machine,
hanging when trying to load "MUP.sys". Since I only use it for games, I
wasn't too worried. I tried reinstalling a few times, without success.

This weekend I finally got time to take the computer apart and reseat
all the cables. Unfortunately, after that the computer refused to POST.
After some experimentation, I've determined that I can't boot if
anything's plugged into any of the SATA ports on the motherboard. I took
out the SATA adapters from my IDE drives and have them hooked up to the
IDE controller, but that means that my DVD burner has no port to hook
to. Still, I'm at least operational with Linux. Windows won't boot at
all, now it blue-screens even if the SATA controller is disabled.

(BTW, it's a good thing Ubuntu sets up the fstab to mount partitions
based on UUID instead of physical partition name. My drives went from
sda and sdb to hda and hdb, but everything worked fine anyway.)

 Anyway, I've started the warranty game, since I only bought the
motherboard in March. Microcenter.com sent me to ECS, and they are on
vacation until tomorrow. We'll see if they (as their warranty policy
seems to indicate) might try to send me back to Microcenter. :-/

Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                            (313) 227-2317

 "Naturally the common people don't want war... [but] it is always a
 simple matter to drag the people along... [T]ell them they are being
   attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and
  exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
                       - Hermann Goering
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Mon Dec  1 15:50:11 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 12:50:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

About a year ago I tried to install Windows XP on an ECS board with out success with SATA.  Linux did not like it either.  Now I stay away from ECS and use MSI, Intel, and ASUS.  I even installed a CD/DVD SATA drive for Suse Linux.  I know ECS makes a lot of boards but I know I can count on MSI, Intel, and ASUS.



________________________________
From: "Ingles, Raymond" <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com>
To: mdlug at mdlug.org
Sent: Monday, December 1, 2008 2:45:21 PM
Subject: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure

A couple weeks ago, Windows XP stopped booting on my downstairs machine,
hanging when trying to load "MUP.sys". Since I only use it for games, I
wasn't too worried. I tried reinstalling a few times, without success.

This weekend I finally got time to take the computer apart and reseat
all the cables. Unfortunately, after that the computer refused to POST.
After some experimentation, I've determined that I can't boot if
anything's plugged into any of the SATA ports on the motherboard. I took
out the SATA adapters from my IDE drives and have them hooked up to the
IDE controller, but that means that my DVD burner has no port to hook
to. Still, I'm at least operational with Linux. Windows won't boot at
all, now it blue-screens even if the SATA controller is disabled.

(BTW, it's a good thing Ubuntu sets up the fstab to mount partitions
based on UUID instead of physical partition name. My drives went from
sda and sdb to hda and hdb, but everything worked fine anyway.)

Anyway, I've started the warranty game, since I only bought the
motherboard in March. Microcenter.com sent me to ECS, and they are on
vacation until tomorrow. We'll see if they (as their warranty policy
seems to indicate) might try to send me back to Microcenter. :-/

Sincerely,

Ray Ingles                                            (313) 227-2317

"Naturally the common people don't want war... [but] it is always a
simple matter to drag the people along... [T]ell them they are being
   attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and
  exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
                       - Hermann Goering
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      

From thomas at redhat.com  Mon Dec  1 20:12:00 2008
From: thomas at redhat.com (thomas at redhat.com)
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 19:12:00 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools
In-Reply-To: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06949009@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
References: <268F49D5ADF245A0924E695327BE5CD8@AMD2000>
	<8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06949009@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
Message-ID: <49348B60.20009@redhat.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Look at Spacewalk, it's our community upstream project for Satellite.

http://www.redhat.com/spacewalk/

Wojtak, Greg wrote:
> Ah, the holy grail for CentOS/RHEL systems (aside from paying Red Hat
> $13,000 a year for a satellite server!).
>
> I am looking for the same thing (and I'm sure any other Linux Sysadmin
> is) for years.  I'm still using the strategy of "install updates on dev
> server, keep the rpm's that were downloaded, move them to test, then
> production, and pray to God that the same packages are in sync across
> all environments."
>
> Not very efficient.  I've been looking into building a yum server and
> configuring the yum-updatesd to download the packages that I roll out.
> A little better than using cron, but not by much.
>
> I'd be interested to hear if you find anything.
>
> Greg Wojtak
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
> Of Michael ORourke
> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:29 AM
> To: MDLUG's main mailing list
> Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools
>
> Lug nuts,
>
> I'm looking for some recommendations, specifically for the CentOS 5.2
> distribution, for a centralized package management system or tools.
> I've
> spent some time doing vaious Google searches, but haven't found what I
> was
> looking for aside from basic tools such as 'yum' and 'up2date', which
> are
> designed to run on a single host.  I was hoping that I would stumble
> upon
> some existing tools that could be leveraged in an existing environment.
> What I would really like is:
> * Gui tools (browser based).
> * Internal centralized server (package repository).
> * Centralized management (for development, QA, & production).
> * Ability to schedule updates and manually push updates.
> * Auditing capabilities (which servers have what packages installed).
> * Ability to manage servers by group (e.g. Dev App servers).
>
> Running 'yum -update' from cron on each server isn't a good strategy,
> especially when it comes to production systems.  I would like to have
> the
> capability to pull down patches to a centralized server, then push the
> patches/updates to the development/QA environment, and finally out to
> the
> production systems after testing is completed.
> Is that too much to ask for.  :-)
> Any suggestions/recommendations/ideas?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


- --
Thomas Cameron, RHCE, RHCX, CNE, MCSE, MCT
Solutions Architect Team Lead, Central Region
512-241-0774 office / 512-585-5631 cell / 512-857-1345 fax
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEARECAAYFAkk0i2AACgkQmzle50YHwaCeaQCeI0q7d8b1mfBS7WK9AXkavp+t
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=ir5P
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From z_mikowski at yahoo.com  Tue Dec  2 00:21:48 2008
From: z_mikowski at yahoo.com (Michael S. Mikowski)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 21:21:48 -0800
Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools
In-Reply-To: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06949009@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
References: <268F49D5ADF245A0924E695327BE5CD8@AMD2000>
	<8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06949009@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
Message-ID: <200812012121.48889.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>

cfengine?  I'm not sure of the feature set, but our systems group uses it for 
keeping configuration up to date for many hundreds of servers...

On Monday 01 December 2008 06:38:39 Wojtak, Greg wrote:
> Ah, the holy grail for CentOS/RHEL systems (aside from paying Red Hat
> $13,000 a year for a satellite server!).
>
> I am looking for the same thing (and I'm sure any other Linux Sysadmin
> is) for years.  I'm still using the strategy of "install updates on dev
> server, keep the rpm's that were downloaded, move them to test, then
> production, and pray to God that the same packages are in sync across
> all environments."
>
> Not very efficient.  I've been looking into building a yum server and
> configuring the yum-updatesd to download the packages that I roll out.
> A little better than using cron, but not by much.
>
> I'd be interested to hear if you find anything.
>
> Greg Wojtak
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
> Of Michael ORourke
> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:29 AM
> To: MDLUG's main mailing list
> Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools
>
> Lug nuts,
>
> I'm looking for some recommendations, specifically for the CentOS 5.2
> distribution, for a centralized package management system or tools.
> I've
> spent some time doing vaious Google searches, but haven't found what I
> was
> looking for aside from basic tools such as 'yum' and 'up2date', which
> are
> designed to run on a single host.  I was hoping that I would stumble
> upon
> some existing tools that could be leveraged in an existing environment.
> What I would really like is:
> * Gui tools (browser based).
> * Internal centralized server (package repository).
> * Centralized management (for development, QA, & production).
> * Ability to schedule updates and manually push updates.
> * Auditing capabilities (which servers have what packages installed).
> * Ability to manage servers by group (e.g. Dev App servers).
>
> Running 'yum -update' from cron on each server isn't a good strategy,
> especially when it comes to production systems.  I would like to have
> the
> capability to pull down patches to a centralized server, then push the
> patches/updates to the development/QA environment, and finally out to
> the
> production systems after testing is completed.
> Is that too much to ask for.  :-)
> Any suggestions/recommendations/ideas?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From mark at metrofindings.com  Tue Dec  2 10:07:44 2008
From: mark at metrofindings.com (Mark Kimsal)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 10:07:44 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools
In-Reply-To: <268F49D5ADF245A0924E695327BE5CD8@AMD2000>
References: <268F49D5ADF245A0924E695327BE5CD8@AMD2000>
Message-ID: <200812021007.44394.mark@metrofindings.com>

On Monday 01 December 08, Michael ORourke wrote:
> Lug nuts,
>
> I'm looking for some recommendations, specifically for the CentOS 5.2
> distribution, for a centralized package management system or tools.  I've
> spent some time doing vaious Google searches, but haven't found what I was
> looking for aside from basic tools such as 'yum' and 'up2date', which are
> designed to run on a single host.  
I know that urpmi has the ability to push package installation/updates across 
multiple hosts... but Mandriva is just a "newbie" OS.

> I was hoping that I would stumble upon 
> some existing tools that could be leveraged in an existing environment.
> What I would really like is:
> * Gui tools (browser based).
> * Internal centralized server (package repository).
> * Centralized management (for development, QA, & production).
> * Ability to schedule updates and manually push updates.
> * Auditing capabilities (which servers have what packages installed).
> * Ability to manage servers by group (e.g. Dev App servers).

Weird... they don't have stuff like that out?  Sounds pretty easy, except for 
the auditing, but not entirely impossible.   I'm already working on a virtual 
host configuration tool, I might be able to add in scheduled rpm installation 
too.  But, it would require a lot of planning and testing from other people.  
I think the biggest obstacle to an open source solution is lack of hardware: 
who has 10 servers they want to donate to test a new tool?  I can easily 
write something to modify apache, bind, postgres, and postfix config files on 
one machine... but I don't have a cluster of computers to make anything work 
across a cluster.


-- 
***************************************************************************
Electronic Mail is not secure, may not be read every day, and should not be 
used for urgent or sensitive issues.

Mark Kimsal
http://biz.metrofindings.com/
fax: 866-375-1590


From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Tue Dec  2 10:16:45 2008
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 10:16:45 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools
References: <268F49D5ADF245A0924E695327BE5CD8@AMD2000><8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06949009@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<49348B60.20009@redhat.com>
Message-ID: <36797E6B6EAA4086ACA44E24D55FA3DE@AMD2000>

Very cool!  Thanks for the link.  -Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: thomas at redhat.com 
  To: MDLUG's Main discussion list 
  Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 8:12 PM
  Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools


  -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
  Hash: SHA1

  Look at Spacewalk, it's our community upstream project for Satellite.

  http://www.redhat.com/spacewalk/

  Wojtak, Greg wrote:
  > Ah, the holy grail for CentOS/RHEL systems (aside from paying Red Hat
  > $13,000 a year for a satellite server!).
  >
  > I am looking for the same thing (and I'm sure any other Linux Sysadmin
  > is) for years.  I'm still using the strategy of "install updates on dev
  > server, keep the rpm's that were downloaded, move them to test, then
  > production, and pray to God that the same packages are in sync across
  > all environments."
  >
  > Not very efficient.  I've been looking into building a yum server and
  > configuring the yum-updatesd to download the packages that I roll out.
  > A little better than using cron, but not by much.
  >
  > I'd be interested to hear if you find anything.
  >
  > Greg Wojtak
  >
  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
  > Of Michael ORourke
  > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:29 AM
  > To: MDLUG's main mailing list
  > Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools
  >
  > Lug nuts,
  >
  > I'm looking for some recommendations, specifically for the CentOS 5.2
  > distribution, for a centralized package management system or tools.
  > I've
  > spent some time doing vaious Google searches, but haven't found what I
  > was
  > looking for aside from basic tools such as 'yum' and 'up2date', which
  > are
  > designed to run on a single host.  I was hoping that I would stumble
  > upon
  > some existing tools that could be leveraged in an existing environment.
  > What I would really like is:
  > * Gui tools (browser based).
  > * Internal centralized server (package repository).
  > * Centralized management (for development, QA, & production).
  > * Ability to schedule updates and manually push updates.
  > * Auditing capabilities (which servers have what packages installed).
  > * Ability to manage servers by group (e.g. Dev App servers).
  >
  > Running 'yum -update' from cron on each server isn't a good strategy,
  > especially when it comes to production systems.  I would like to have
  > the
  > capability to pull down patches to a centralized server, then push the
  > patches/updates to the development/QA environment, and finally out to
  > the
  > production systems after testing is completed.
  > Is that too much to ask for.  :-)
  > Any suggestions/recommendations/ideas?
  >
  > Thanks,
  > Mike
  >
  > _______________________________________________
  > mdlug mailing list
  > mdlug at mdlug.org
  > http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
  > _______________________________________________
  > mdlug mailing list
  > mdlug at mdlug.org
  > http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


  - --
  Thomas Cameron, RHCE, RHCX, CNE, MCSE, MCT
  Solutions Architect Team Lead, Central Region
  512-241-0774 office / 512-585-5631 cell / 512-857-1345 fax
  -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
  Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
  Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

  iEYEARECAAYFAkk0i2AACgkQmzle50YHwaCeaQCeI0q7d8b1mfBS7WK9AXkavp+t
  bFAAnj3DpayY3BLZsaT0N2tMeal+3PIr
  =ir5P
  -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
  _______________________________________________
  mdlug mailing list
  mdlug at mdlug.org
  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


------------------------------------------------------------------------------



  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 
  Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.12/1823 - Release Date: 12/1/2008 7:59 PM


From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Tue Dec  2 10:20:01 2008
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 10:20:01 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools
References: <268F49D5ADF245A0924E695327BE5CD8@AMD2000><8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06949009@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<200812012121.48889.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8C4AE515EB194378973C738B4CB0AAAD@AMD2000>

I was looking at that the other day.  Might be a little too much complexity 
for what I was looking for.  But I suppose it could be used to keep systems 
patched.  Thanks for the suggestion.

-Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Michael S. Mikowski
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 12:21 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools


cfengine?  I'm not sure of the feature set, but our systems group uses it 
for
keeping configuration up to date for many hundreds of servers...

On Monday 01 December 2008 06:38:39 Wojtak, Greg wrote:
> Ah, the holy grail for CentOS/RHEL systems (aside from paying Red Hat
> $13,000 a year for a satellite server!).
>
> I am looking for the same thing (and I'm sure any other Linux Sysadmin
> is) for years.  I'm still using the strategy of "install updates on dev
> server, keep the rpm's that were downloaded, move them to test, then
> production, and pray to God that the same packages are in sync across
> all environments."
>
> Not very efficient.  I've been looking into building a yum server and
> configuring the yum-updatesd to download the packages that I roll out.
> A little better than using cron, but not by much.
>
> I'd be interested to hear if you find anything.
>
> Greg Wojtak
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
> Of Michael ORourke
> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:29 AM
> To: MDLUG's main mailing list
> Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools
>
> Lug nuts,
>
> I'm looking for some recommendations, specifically for the CentOS 5.2
> distribution, for a centralized package management system or tools.
> I've
> spent some time doing vaious Google searches, but haven't found what I
> was
> looking for aside from basic tools such as 'yum' and 'up2date', which
> are
> designed to run on a single host.  I was hoping that I would stumble
> upon
> some existing tools that could be leveraged in an existing environment.
> What I would really like is:
> * Gui tools (browser based).
> * Internal centralized server (package repository).
> * Centralized management (for development, QA, & production).
> * Ability to schedule updates and manually push updates.
> * Auditing capabilities (which servers have what packages installed).
> * Ability to manage servers by group (e.g. Dev App servers).
>
> Running 'yum -update' from cron on each server isn't a good strategy,
> especially when it comes to production systems.  I would like to have
> the
> capability to pull down patches to a centralized server, then push the
> patches/updates to the development/QA environment, and finally out to
> the
> production systems after testing is completed.
> Is that too much to ask for.  :-)
> Any suggestions/recommendations/ideas?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.12/1823 - Release Date: 12/1/2008 
7:59 PM 



From john_re at fastmail.us  Wed Dec  3 06:46:24 2008
From: john_re at fastmail.us (john_re)
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 03:46:24 -0800
Subject: [mdlug] BerkeleyTIP Great progress VOIP November - Dec 6 = Improve
	VOIP
Message-ID: <1228304784.9864.1288012087@webmail.messagingengine.com>

We made GREAT progress with the November 1 meeting! :)  I really can't
believe how happy I am about it, & how far we advanced.

We went from in September having no online attendees,
to in October having 1 person remote on IRC, to in
November having 7 people around the US all in a VOIP conference!  It was
_fantastic_!  I was very impressed.  

I'm especially impressed with our online members, who basically took the
info I had in the VOIP data page, & found a conference #, set up a
conference, & got logged in, all while I was taking a short break!  :)

Besides two of us on VOIP in Berkeley, we had Oakland, San Fran, San
Jose, Washington state, & North Carolina.  Plus we had at least two
other person on IRC who didn't have time to get on VOIP.

It was so very enjoyable talking & listening to the guy in North
Carolina - he had a _very_ strong southern accent, & I _rarely_ get to
talk with someone with that accent.  It was so fun knowing I was
listening to someone who was _unmistakeably_ _not_ from the BayArea!

We had a UCB student join us on IRC from one of the dorms - he'd seen
the announcement I sent on the UCB SciPy list.

This is all doubly exciting, because I _still_ didn't even get the
announcements out until less than 24 hours before hand. Think how many
more people might see the announcement in time to join us if I get it
out 1 or two weeks ahead of time!

Good progress is me getting _this_ announcement out about 3 weeks
before the meeting to the BTIP groups.  My goal is to get announcements
to the "outside" mailing lists both this coming weekend (2 weeks) & the
following weekend (1 week ahead).  This will allow many more people to
schedule the December 6 meeting into their schedules.  :)

===================
December 6 Progress Opportunities:

Some things I might be doing:
Getting announcements out for the first (or first advanced) time to
Debian, GNU, FreeBSD, KDE, & maybe Ubuntu, Ekiga & Asterisk & 10
California LUG lists.

Based on discussion that we didn't have a way to see a list of who was
in the VOIP conference room, like in an IRC client, that is a possible
target for the December Programming party.  Maybe we can make some web
ap that can do that?  Or, some Python program which is like a IRC client
for VOIP conference rooms?  Perhaps we can modify the Ekiga sw?

Also, I'll try to notify the Ekiga & Asterisk people about this, in case
they'd like to help out.

Discussion might be about K-Ubuntu 8.10.

There's a new video from Christine Peterson about Open Source
Environment Sensing.  If you know of any new FSW videos, please email me
or the list so I can put them on the BTIPG video page.

Any comments or questions?      Hope to see you in person in Berkeley,
or VOIP conference with you all on Sat Dec 6.  :)

http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Wed Dec  3 12:58:31 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 12:58:31 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure
In-Reply-To: <834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: David Lane

> About a year ago I tried to install Windows XP on an ECS board with
out
> success with SATA.  Linux did not like it either.  Now I stay away
from
> ECS and use MSI, Intel, and ASUS.  I even installed a CD/DVD SATA
drive
> for Suse Linux.  I know ECS makes a lot of boards but I know I can
count
> on MSI, Intel, and ASUS.

 Well, ECS's warranty dept is slow to respond, but we'll see. In the
meantime, I hooked up my DVD-RW drive via my IDE-to-USB adapter, but
it's surprisingly slow. I've got it connected via USB 2.0, and I've
definitely gotten USB 2.0 speeds with hard drives before, but backing up
a DVD last night took about two hours instead of ~20 minutes. It could
also play a movie fine from the start, but slowed down to less than
realtime in a few minutes.

 Running a script to convert the movie to DIVX for my Treo, it started
out at 87fps, but quickly dropped to ~23fps. Has anyone else seen such
behavior?

Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                  (313) 227-2317

 "There are two kinds of people; those who finish what they
               start and so on." - Anonymous
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  3 13:10:25 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 10:10:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <688846.17218.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

A show of hands:

   Who is happy with MSI MotherBoards?

   Who is happy with Intel MotherBoards?

  Who is happy with ASUS MotherBoards?


Even if it is free I might not use it because I dont have time to mess with a board that is difficult to work with.

David C. Lane 



________________________________
From: "Ingles, Raymond" <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 3, 2008 12:58:31 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure

> From: David Lane

> About a year ago I tried to install Windows XP on an ECS board with
out
> success with SATA.  Linux did not like it either.  Now I stay away
from
> ECS and use MSI, Intel, and ASUS.  I even installed a CD/DVD SATA
drive
> for Suse Linux.  I know ECS makes a lot of boards but I know I can
count
> on MSI, Intel, and ASUS.

Well, ECS's warranty dept is slow to respond, but we'll see. In the
meantime, I hooked up my DVD-RW drive via my IDE-to-USB adapter, but
it's surprisingly slow. I've got it connected via USB 2.0, and I've
definitely gotten USB 2.0 speeds with hard drives before, but backing up
a DVD last night took about two hours instead of ~20 minutes. It could
also play a movie fine from the start, but slowed down to less than
realtime in a few minutes.

Running a script to convert the movie to DIVX for my Treo, it started
out at 87fps, but quickly dropped to ~23fps. Has anyone else seen such
behavior?

Sincerely,

Ray Ingles                                  (313) 227-2317

"There are two kinds of people; those who finish what they
               start and so on." - Anonymous
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      

From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  3 13:11:32 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 10:11:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<688846.17218.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <647403.51558.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

ECS board that is 




________________________________
From: David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 3, 2008 1:10:25 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure

A show of hands:

   Who is happy with MSI MotherBoards?

   Who is happy with Intel MotherBoards?

  Who is happy with ASUS MotherBoards?


Even if it is free I might not use it because I dont have time to mess with a board that is difficult to work with.

David C. Lane 



________________________________
From: "Ingles, Raymond" <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 3, 2008 12:58:31 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure

> From: David Lane

> About a year ago I tried to install Windows XP on an ECS board with
out
> success with SATA.  Linux did not like it either.  Now I stay away
from
> ECS and use MSI, Intel, and ASUS.  I even installed a CD/DVD SATA
drive
> for Suse Linux.  I know ECS makes a lot of boards but I know I can
count
> on MSI, Intel, and ASUS.

Well, ECS's warranty dept is slow to respond, but we'll see. In the
meantime, I hooked up my DVD-RW drive via my IDE-to-USB adapter, but
it's surprisingly slow. I've got it connected via USB 2.0, and I've
definitely gotten USB 2.0 speeds with hard drives before, but backing up
a DVD last night took about two hours instead of ~20 minutes. It could
also play a movie fine from the start, but slowed down to less than
realtime in a few minutes.

Running a script to convert the movie to DIVX for my Treo, it started
out at 87fps, but quickly dropped to ~23fps. Has anyone else seen such
behavior?

Sincerely,

Ray Ingles                                  (313) 227-2317

"There are two kinds of people; those who finish what they
               start and so on." - Anonymous
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      

From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Dec  3 15:13:09 2008
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 15:13:09 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure
In-Reply-To: <688846.17218.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<688846.17218.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4936E855.5070903@gmail.com>

David Lane wrote:
> A show of hands:
> 
>    Who is happy with MSI MotherBoards?

Had only one.  Problematic.

> 
>    Who is happy with Intel MotherBoards?
>
Never had one

>   Who is happy with ASUS MotherBoards?

Personally, I've had good success with motherboards from
a company called DFI (back in the 1990's, althought a guy
at the shop (Stone Computer) said they had problems with
them.

My last couple of motherboards have by Gigabyte.
Not a problem with either one.

My HP dv8330us laptop has been more of a pain (primarily
the touchpad spuriously taking input when I'm typing as
a deliberate tap, and moving the typing cursor to wherever
the mouse-cursor is located -- annoyance to no end, as
this usually happens when I'm ... answering e-mail.

In fact, it happened twice while typing this reply.

> 
> 
> Even if it is free I might not use it because I dont have time to mess with a board that is difficult to work with.
> 
> David C. Lane 
>


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Dec  3 15:29:35 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 15:29:35 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure
In-Reply-To: <4936E855.5070903@gmail.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<688846.17218.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4936E855.5070903@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90812031229j4b263565paf15ba1eeb3e4126@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 3:13 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Personally, I've had good success with motherboards from
> a company called DFI (back in the 1990's, althought a guy
> at the shop (Stone Computer) said they had problems with
> them.
>
> My last couple of motherboards have by Gigabyte.
> Not a problem with either one.

I've used a lot of brands/models over the years and had little
problems outside of bad caps.  I usually don't overclock.  The last
Gigabyte model I bought was a GA-MA770-DS3 for my AMD Phenom 9550
system.  The system has been very unstable.  The first MB/CPU/RAM was
sent back and replaced.  The replacements have been marginally better
but I still get occasional RAM corruption and have to power cycle the
system to correct it.  Since the CPU has an integrated memory
controller I don't know who to blame yet.  I waiting for a new ASUS
M3A78-EM to arrive to see if it works better.

> My HP dv8330us laptop has been more of a pain (primarily
> the touchpad spuriously taking input when I'm typing as
> a deliberate tap, and moving the typing cursor to wherever
> the mouse-cursor is located -- annoyance to no end, as
> this usually happens when I'm ... answering e-mail.

Does that use a Synaptics touchpad?
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=271052


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Wed Dec  3 15:46:37 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 15:46:37 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90812031229j4b263565paf15ba1eeb3e4126@mail.gmail.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp><834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com><319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp><688846.17218.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4936E855.5070903@gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90812031229j4b263565paf15ba1eeb3e4126@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24E@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Jeff Hanson

> I've used a lot of brands/models over the years and had little
> problems outside of bad caps.  I usually don't overclock.

 Just to be clear: I don't overclock, and whatever the problem with this
motherboard, it wasn't caused by overclocking. I haven't seen any
*visibly* bad caps, but...

Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                    (313) 227-2317

 "Many people would sooner die than think. In fact, they do."
                    - Bertrand Russell
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  3 16:05:31 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 13:05:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp><834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com><319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp><688846.17218.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4936E855.5070903@gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90812031229j4b263565paf15ba1eeb3e4126@mail.gmail.com>
	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24E@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <470201.90514.qm@web37902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

For installation and operations I gravitate to motherboards that give good performance.  

Early XP did not work well with SATA/SATA II BUT you can stop installation and load a driver from a floppy.

With Linux I have not really had problems loading the OS.  Except for that ECS board that I got from Fry's when I bought an E6600 Intel CPU.  I solved the problem by getting an MSI board.

For My Linux Note book computer the Wifi cards did not work until I got a 3COM card.

There is a reason I concluded that the ECS board was free, It might have had issues.

David 
  





________________________________
From: "Ingles, Raymond" <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 3, 2008 3:46:37 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure

> From: Jeff Hanson

> I've used a lot of brands/models over the years and had little
> problems outside of bad caps.  I usually don't overclock.

Just to be clear: I don't overclock, and whatever the problem with this
motherboard, it wasn't caused by overclocking. I haven't seen any
*visibly* bad caps, but...

Sincerely,

Ray Ingles                                    (313) 227-2317

"Many people would sooner die than think. In fact, they do."
                    - Bertrand Russell
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      

From tesral at comcast.net  Wed Dec  3 16:22:55 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 16:22:55 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure
In-Reply-To: <4936E855.5070903@gmail.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<688846.17218.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4936E855.5070903@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4936F8AF.2020800@comcast.net>


My current board is a XFX intel chip board.  No problem with it at all. 
Five SATA controllers of which two are in use.  I have an IDE DVD-ROM.

I can say nothing but good of the board.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Dec  3 16:36:48 2008
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 16:36:48 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90812031229j4b263565paf15ba1eeb3e4126@mail.gmail.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<688846.17218.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<4936E855.5070903@gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90812031229j4b263565paf15ba1eeb3e4126@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4936FBF0.1010201@gmail.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 3:13 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Personally, I've had good success with motherboards from
>> a company called DFI (back in the 1990's, althought a guy
>> at the shop (Stone Computer) said they had problems with
>> them.
>>
>> My last couple of motherboards have by Gigabyte.
>> Not a problem with either one.
> 
> I've used a lot of brands/models over the years and had little
> problems outside of bad caps.  I usually don't overclock.  The last

Yes.  Overclocking is asking for trouble.

Most over-clockers don't seem to understand how the electronics
industry works:

The do NOT set out to make a patch of parts to a specific
set of electrical specifications.  Instead, they make a bunch
of devices (resistors, capacitors, chips, whatever...) and
then TEST whatever comes out of the manufacturing process,
to see what specifications it meets.

In other words, if a CPU is in a 2.2 GHz box, that's because
it FAILED to run flawlessly when they cranked up the clock
to 2.33 GHz.


> Gigabyte model I bought was a GA-MA770-DS3 for my AMD Phenom 9550
> system.  The system has been very unstable.  The first MB/CPU/RAM was
> sent back and replaced.  The replacements have been marginally better
> but I still get occasional RAM corruption and have to power cycle the
> system to correct it.  Since the CPU has an integrated memory
> controller I don't know who to blame yet.  I waiting for a new ASUS
> M3A78-EM to arrive to see if it works better.

Wow, that sounds annoying.

> 
>> My HP dv8330us laptop has been more of a pain (primarily
>> the touchpad spuriously taking input when I'm typing as
>> a deliberate tap, and moving the typing cursor to wherever
>> the mouse-cursor is located -- annoyance to no end, as
>> this usually happens when I'm ... answering e-mail.
> 
> Does that use a Synaptics touchpad?

Yes, I believe so.

> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=271052

Ah.  Thank you!

pretty braindamaged thread though -- and overly gnome-ified. (UGH!)

1.  All he needed to do was say to put

	 syndaemon -i 1 -d

    in the GUI startup script

2. Obviously, the OP didn't read the man page all that well,
because the primary problem during typing is errant TAPS,
which is specifically addressed by the -t flag (while still
preserving the ability to do mouse-movements immediately
without waiting for the 1-second time-out; and -k and -K flags
address the needed to preserve the use of modifier keys (ctrl,
shift, etc.) when using the mouse without inducing the delay.


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Dec  3 16:51:29 2008
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 16:51:29 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure
In-Reply-To: <4936FBF0.1010201@gmail.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<688846.17218.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<4936E855.5070903@gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90812031229j4b263565paf15ba1eeb3e4126@mail.gmail.com>
	<4936FBF0.1010201@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4936FF61.8020108@gmail.com>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> Jeff Hanson wrote:
>> On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 3:13 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Personally, I've had good success with motherboards from
>>> a company called DFI (back in the 1990's, althought a guy
>>> at the shop (Stone Computer) said they had problems with
>>> them.
>>>
>>> My last couple of motherboards have by Gigabyte.
>>> Not a problem with either one.
>>
>> I've used a lot of brands/models over the years and had little
>> problems outside of bad caps.  I usually don't overclock.  The last
> 
> Yes.  Overclocking is asking for trouble.
> 
> Most over-clockers don't seem to understand how the electronics
> industry works:
> 
> The do NOT set out to make a patch of parts to a specific
> set of electrical specifications.  Instead, they make a bunch
> of devices (resistors, capacitors, chips, whatever...) and
> then TEST whatever comes out of the manufacturing process,
> to see what specifications it meets.
> 
> In other words, if a CPU is in a 2.2 GHz box, that's because
> it FAILED to run flawlessly when they cranked up the clock
> to 2.33 GHz.
> 
> 
>> Gigabyte model I bought was a GA-MA770-DS3 for my AMD Phenom 9550
>> system.  The system has been very unstable.  The first MB/CPU/RAM was
>> sent back and replaced.  The replacements have been marginally better
>> but I still get occasional RAM corruption and have to power cycle the
>> system to correct it.  Since the CPU has an integrated memory
>> controller I don't know who to blame yet.  I waiting for a new ASUS
>> M3A78-EM to arrive to see if it works better.
> 
> Wow, that sounds annoying.
> 
>>
>>> My HP dv8330us laptop has been more of a pain (primarily
>>> the touchpad spuriously taking input when I'm typing as
>>> a deliberate tap, and moving the typing cursor to wherever
>>> the mouse-cursor is located -- annoyance to no end, as
>>> this usually happens when I'm ... answering e-mail.
>>
>> Does that use a Synaptics touchpad?
> 
> Yes, I believe so.
> 
>> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=271052
> 
> Ah.  Thank you!
> 
> pretty braindamaged thread though -- and overly gnome-ified. (UGH!)
> 
> 1.  All he needed to do was say to put
> 
>      syndaemon -i 1 -d
> 
>    in the GUI startup script
> 
> 2. Obviously, the OP didn't read the man page all that well,
> because the primary problem during typing is errant TAPS,
> which is specifically addressed by the -t flag (while still
> preserving the ability to do mouse-movements immediately
> without waiting for the 1-second time-out; and -k and -K flags
> address the needed to preserve the use of modifier keys (ctrl,
> shift, etc.) when using the mouse without inducing the delay.
> 
>  From the man page:
> 
> SYNTAX
>     syndaemon [-i idle-time] [-d] [-p pid-file] [-t] [-k] [-K]
> 
> DESCRIPTION
>     Disabling the touchpad while  typing  avoids  unwanted
>     movements  of  the pointer that could lead to giving
>     focus to the wrong window.  This program needs
>     SHMConfig "on" in your XOrg/XFree86 Synaptics Touchpad
>     configuration.
> 
> OPTIONS
>     -i <idle-time>
>           How  many  seconds to wait after the last key press
>           before enabling the touchpad.  (default is 2.0s).
> 
>     -d    Start as a daemon, ie in the background.
> 
> 
>     -p <pid-file>
>              Create a pid file with the specified filename.
>           A pid file will only be created if the program
>           is started in daemon mode.
> 
>     -t    Only disable tapping and scrolling, not mouse
>           movements, in response to keyboard activity.
> 
>     -k    Ignore modifier keys when monitoring keyboard activity.
> 
>     -K    Like -k but also ignore Modifier+Key combos.
> 
> 
> Therefore:
> 
> syndaemon -i 1 -d -t -K
> 
> 
> Anyways, with KDE, I didn't even have to restart my desktop.
> I just started the deamon, and syndaemon took effect immediately!
> 
> 

Oh, added note:then

For KDE users, open a window, and copy/paste the
following commands into it.

$ cd ~/.kde/Autostart
$ mkdir ~/bin		# if you don't have one already.
$ F=~/bin/tame_touchpad
$ touch $F	# bring script file's path into existance 
$ chmod 755 $F		# set the proper mode
$ ln -s $F .		# now link it
$ cat > $F		# now write the script
#!/bin/bash

# synaptics touchpad deamon
# -d deamon mode
# -t while typing, noise-filter touchpad taps
# -K don't filter use of modifier keys + mouse-movement
# -i 1   interval from typing to touchpad use: 1 second
syndaemon -d -t -K -i 1

# manually type ctrl-D here

$ ./tame_touchpad




Or, without without the prompts, so you can just paste
it as one giant blob:


cd ~/.kde/Autostart
mkdir ~/bin
F=~/bin/tame_touchpad
touch $F
chmod 755 $F
ln -s $F .
cat > $F
#!/bin/bash

# synaptics touchpad deamon
# -d deamon mode
# -t while typing, noise-filter touchpad taps
# -K don't filter use of modifier keys + mouse-movement
# -i 1   interval from typing to touchpad use: 1 second
syndaemon -d -t -K -i 1


# now type ctrl-D and run the command ./tame_touchpad


From Stan at mcomputersolutions.com  Wed Dec  3 16:57:11 2008
From: Stan at mcomputersolutions.com (Stan Green)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 16:57:11 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Gigabit Ethernet - Worth it?
Message-ID: <200812031657.11234.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>

Oh ye experts of the network....

I do a lot of data transfer of large files (4gb - 40gb ) and large sets of 
data (100gb+). These transfers take some time. I'm thinking of upgrading some 
of the network to Gigabit Ethernet. I've read conflicting information about 
Gigabit Ethernet; some say it is faster and some say the PC is the 
bottleneck. My PC's tend to be a few (3-5) years old. I transfer data over 
both NFS and Samba. Most of the large files go over Samba. If I replace the 
NIC cards, cables and hub, should I expect to see a BIG difference in 
transfer speed?

Thanks,
Stan


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Dec  3 18:37:36 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 18:37:36 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Gigabit Ethernet - Worth it?
In-Reply-To: <200812031657.11234.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
References: <200812031657.11234.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90812031537i6eeb3be6r31086efb473703f2@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 4:57 PM, Stan Green <Stan at mcomputersolutions.com> wrote:
> Oh ye experts of the network....
>
> I do a lot of data transfer of large files (4gb - 40gb ) and large sets of
> data (100gb+). These transfers take some time. I'm thinking of upgrading some
> of the network to Gigabit Ethernet. I've read conflicting information about
> Gigabit Ethernet; some say it is faster and some say the PC is the
> bottleneck. My PC's tend to be a few (3-5) years old. I transfer data over
> both NFS and Samba. Most of the large files go over Samba. If I replace the
> NIC cards, cables and hub, should I expect to see a BIG difference in
> transfer speed?

It depends on where the bottlenecks are.  If it's your network then it
will help.  Using jumbo frames can also improve transfer rates but
your routers must be able to use them also.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumbo_Frame


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Wed Dec  3 19:44:09 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 19:44:09 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Gigabit Ethernet - Worth it?
In-Reply-To: <200812031657.11234.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
References: <200812031657.11234.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <1228351449.5031.10.camel@peter-notebook.site>


On Wed, 2008-12-03 at 16:57 -0500, Stan Green wrote:
> Oh ye experts of the network....
> 
> I do a lot of data transfer of large files (4gb - 40gb ) and large sets of 
> data (100gb+). These transfers take some time. I'm thinking of upgrading some 
> of the network to Gigabit Ethernet. I've read conflicting information about 
> Gigabit Ethernet; some say it is faster and some say the PC is the 
> bottleneck. My PC's tend to be a few (3-5) years old. I transfer data over 
> both NFS and Samba. Most of the large files go over Samba. If I replace the 
> NIC cards, cables and hub, should I expect to see a BIG difference in 
> transfer speed?

FWIW
	I just completed my small home network which is comprised of gigabit
devices and cables. If I can run some sort of data transfer to give you
an idea of the speed, I'd be more than happy to. If you're interested
I'll detail what I have and how it's wired.

Best Regards,
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From driveray at ameritech.net  Wed Dec  3 19:44:20 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 19:44:20 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure
In-Reply-To: <4936FBF0.1010201@gmail.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<688846.17218.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<4936E855.5070903@gmail.com>	<b02c40e90812031229j4b263565paf15ba1eeb3e4126@mail.gmail.com>
	<4936FBF0.1010201@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <493727E4.6070905@ameritech.net>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:

> Yes.  Overclocking is asking for trouble.
> 
> Most over-clockers don't seem to understand how the electronics
> industry works:
> 
> The do NOT set out to make a patch of parts to a specific
> set of electrical specifications.  Instead, they make a bunch
> of devices (resistors, capacitors, chips, whatever...) and
> then TEST whatever comes out of the manufacturing process,
> to see what specifications it meets.
> 
> In other words, if a CPU is in a 2.2 GHz box, that's because
> it FAILED to run flawlessly when they cranked up the clock
> to 2.33 GHz.

Not necessarily true. It is my understanding that they do not set out to 
make parts of each specific speed rating, They do set out to make parts 
that will fall within a specific range. A part marked as 2.2 GHz will 
have passed testing at that speed. It may, or may not have been test at 
higher speeds. If they already have as many 2.33GHz, or higher, chips as 
they expect to sell within a given time frame, then they just don't 
bother testing at higher speeds. If they are getting good yields you 
chip might, or might not, be able to function at a higher speed than it 
is marked.

I have long thought that, if they really cared about overclockers, they 
could use tiny fusible links or other irreversible indicators of the 
maximum speed a chip had been run at.




From micorral at comcast.net  Thu Dec  4 00:26:52 2008
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 00:26:52 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure
In-Reply-To: <688846.17218.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<688846.17218.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0812040022080.2451@banana.sluggo.net>

2008-12-03, Monsieur David Lane a ecrit:
>   Who is happy with MSI MotherBoards?

I'm using one now: K8T Neo2 v2.0 (MS-7094). I like it, it's been great.

>   Who is happy with Intel MotherBoards?

I've used several at work, they were decent, no problems.

>  Who is happy with ASUS MotherBoards?

I've never used one.

My favorite mobos have been Tyan. Rock solid, never any problems.

Michael


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Thu Dec  4 07:49:24 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 07:49:24 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure
In-Reply-To: <493727E4.6070905@ameritech.net>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<688846.17218.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<4936E855.5070903@gmail.com>	<b02c40e90812031229j4b263565paf15ba1eeb3e4126@mail.gmail.com><4936FBF0.1010201@gmail.com>
	<493727E4.6070905@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B250@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Raymond McLaughlin

> Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> > In other words, if a CPU is in a 2.2 GHz box, that's because
> > it FAILED to run flawlessly when they cranked up the clock
> > to 2.33 GHz.
> 
> Not necessarily true. It is my understanding that they do not set out
to
> make parts of each specific speed rating, They do set out to make
parts
> that will fall within a specific range. A part marked as 2.2 GHz will
> have passed testing at that speed. It may, or may not have been test
at
> higher speeds.

 Then there are the occasional cases like the Macintosh IIsi. Sold
running at 20MHz, but was designed as a 25MHz machine. (Apple didn't
want it to cut into sales of the IIci, which ran at 25MHz.) So a simple
bit of soldering to put in a new clock chip, and the machine was running
at 125%, with no stability issues at all.

Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                           (313) 227-2317

 "Capitalism works primarily because most of the ways that a company
  can be scum end up being extremely bad for business when there's
                   working competition." -rra
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Thu Dec  4 09:40:07 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 06:40:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] BEST SYSTEM CONFIG ? (ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA
	controller failure)
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<688846.17218.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0812040022080.2451@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <418007.24579.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

To save people heart burn how about posting on the web site once a quarter successful system configurations.

I don't think I'm the only one to be a fan of what work, and what works well.


David C. Lane 






________________________________
From: Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 12:26:52 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure

2008-12-03, Monsieur David Lane a ecrit:
>   Who is happy with MSI MotherBoards?

I'm using one now: K8T Neo2 v2.0 (MS-7094). I like it, it's been great.

>   Who is happy with Intel MotherBoards?

I've used several at work, they were decent, no problems.

>  Who is happy with ASUS MotherBoards?

I've never used one.

My favorite mobos have been Tyan. Rock solid, never any problems.

Michael
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      

From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Thu Dec  4 09:42:38 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 06:42:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] BEST SYSTEM CONFIG ? (ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA
	controller failure)
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<688846.17218.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0812040022080.2451@banana.sluggo.net>
	<418007.24579.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <311924.82235.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Or a "Successful Build Section." 

David C. Lane




________________________________
From: David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 9:40:07 AM
Subject: [mdlug] BEST SYSTEM CONFIG ? (ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure)

To save people heart burn how about posting on the web site once a quarter successful system configurations.

I don't think I'm the only one to be a fan of what work, and what works well.


David C. Lane 






________________________________
From: Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 12:26:52 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure

2008-12-03, Monsieur David Lane a ecrit:
>   Who is happy with MSI MotherBoards?

I'm using one now: K8T Neo2 v2.0 (MS-7094). I like it, it's been great.

>   Who is happy with Intel MotherBoards?

I've used several at work, they were decent, no problems.

>  Who is happy with ASUS MotherBoards?

I've never used one.

My favorite mobos have been Tyan. Rock solid, never any problems.

Michael
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      

From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Thu Dec  4 12:05:27 2008
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 12:05:27 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B250@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<688846.17218.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<4936E855.5070903@gmail.com>	<b02c40e90812031229j4b263565paf15ba1eeb3e4126@mail.gmail.com><4936FBF0.1010201@gmail.com>	<493727E4.6070905@ameritech.net>
	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B250@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <49380DD7.8000003@gmail.com>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>> From: Raymond McLaughlin
> 
>> Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>>> In other words, if a CPU is in a 2.2 GHz box, that's because
>>> it FAILED to run flawlessly when they cranked up the clock
>>> to 2.33 GHz.
>> Not necessarily true. It is my understanding that they do not set out
> to
>> make parts of each specific speed rating, They do set out to make
> parts
>> that will fall within a specific range. A part marked as 2.2 GHz will
>> have passed testing at that speed. It may, or may not have been test
> at
>> higher speeds.
> 
>  Then there are the occasional cases like the Macintosh IIsi. Sold
> running at 20MHz, but was designed as a 25MHz machine. (Apple didn't
> want it to cut into sales of the IIci, which ran at 25MHz.) So a simple
> bit of soldering to put in a new clock chip, and the machine was running
> at 125%, with no stability issues at all.

In any event, it was in fact a 20 MHz machine as sold.
Just like a Ford with a 383ci engine in it was in fact a
383 vehicle, even though you could drop in a 454ci engine.

> 
> Sincerely,
> 
>  Ray Ingles                                           (313) 227-2317
> 
>  "Capitalism works primarily because most of the ways that a company
>   can be scum end up being extremely bad for business when there's
>                    working competition." -rra

And that's why, in the long run, capitalism is friendlier
to "the little guy" than socialism.

In socialism, scummy companies can (and often do) continue
on indefinitely with government subsidies.  Krupp (of German
steel and warmaking fame) is a good example -- even while
doing rather nice things for their employees, Krupp became
quite scummy by the late 1800's.


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Thu Dec  4 12:06:30 2008
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 12:06:30 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] BEST SYSTEM CONFIG ? (ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA
 controller failure)
In-Reply-To: <418007.24579.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<688846.17218.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0812040022080.2451@banana.sluggo.net>
	<418007.24579.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49380E16.1030405@gmail.com>

David Lane wrote:
> To save people heart burn how about posting on the web site once a quarter successful system configurations.
> 
> I don't think I'm the only one to be a fan of what work, and what works well.
> 
> 

Make a fill-in-the-blank form :-)

> David C. Lane 


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Thu Dec  4 12:24:58 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 09:24:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] BEST SYSTEM CONFIG ? (ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA
	controller failure)
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<688846.17218.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0812040022080.2451@banana.sluggo.net>
	<418007.24579.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<49380E16.1030405@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <785132.65717.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I'll work on it.

David 




________________________________
From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 12:06:30 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] BEST SYSTEM CONFIG ? (ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure)

David Lane wrote:
> To save people heart burn how about posting on the web site once a quarter successful system configurations.
> 
> I don't think I'm the only one to be a fan of what work, and what works well.
> 
> 

Make a fill-in-the-blank form :-)

> David C. Lane 
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      

From tesral at comcast.net  Thu Dec  4 12:27:33 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 12:27:33 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] BEST SYSTEM CONFIG ? (ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA
 controller failure)
In-Reply-To: <49380E16.1030405@gmail.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<688846.17218.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0812040022080.2451@banana.sluggo.net>	<418007.24579.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<49380E16.1030405@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49381305.8000008@comcast.net>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> Make a fill-in-the-blank form :-)
>   

Let's see.

Phoenix -- running openSUSE 11
Antec 300 case
Corsair  TX750 power supply
XFX  nForce 680i LT
intel Core Duo 2.4 gig processor
Corsair pc6400 memory, 4 gig
Raedon G-force video card (I can't find the exact model right now.)
Older Auidgy Sound card.(from Gate)
Lite-on DVD burner.
2 500 gig Seagate SATA hard drives.



-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Thu Dec  4 13:01:21 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 10:01:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] BEST SYSTEM CONFIG ? (ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA
	controller failure)
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<688846.17218.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0812040022080.2451@banana.sluggo.net>
	<418007.24579.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<49380E16.1030405@gmail.com> <49381305.8000008@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <811272.79562.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Cool when I get Back in town I'll work on the Forms.

David 





________________________________
From: Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 12:27:33 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] BEST SYSTEM CONFIG ? (ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure)

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> Make a fill-in-the-blank form :-)
>  

Let's see.

Phoenix -- running openSUSE 11
Antec 300 case
Corsair  TX750 power supply
XFX  nForce 680i LT
intel Core Duo 2.4 gig processor
Corsair pc6400 memory, 4 gig
Raedon G-force video card (I can't find the exact model right now.)
Older Auidgy Sound card.(from Gate)
Lite-on DVD burner.
2 500 gig Seagate SATA hard drives.



-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      

From danno at umich.edu  Thu Dec  4 13:29:56 2008
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 13:29:56 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Gigabit Ethernet - Worth it?
In-Reply-To: <200812031657.11234.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
References: <200812031657.11234.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <20081204182956.GA64477@maniac.deathstar.org>

On Wed, Dec 03, 2008 at 04:57:11PM -0500, Stan Green wrote:
> Oh ye experts of the network....
> 
> I do a lot of data transfer of large files (4gb - 40gb ) and large sets of 
> data (100gb+). These transfers take some time. I'm thinking of upgrading some 
> of the network to Gigabit Ethernet. I've read conflicting information about 
> Gigabit Ethernet; some say it is faster and some say the PC is the 
> bottleneck. My PC's tend to be a few (3-5) years old. I transfer data over 
> both NFS and Samba. Most of the large files go over Samba. If I replace the 
> NIC cards, cables and hub, should I expect to see a BIG difference in 
> transfer speed?

First, using a file-transfer protocol rather than Samba will almost
certainly give you some improvement.  SMB and NFS are chatty protocols
and have lots of pauses rather than full-time data transfer.

e.g., SFTP or plain old FTP, which doesn't do encryption so will
use less CPU.  make sure to firewall appropriately if you use plain
FTP.

Assuming this is all on a LAN, you will see some improvement by moving
to gigabit ethernet, no matter what you buy.

for the best performance, buy "server" ethernet cards, e.g., intel
pro/1000 SERVER adapter (there are also pro/1000 desktop adapters).
They really are better, but cost more too.

I'm not sure whether you get benefit from a $40 intel desktop
card vs. a $15 no-name card.  

as another poster mentioned, using jumbo frames will help too;
with 9000 byte frames you have 6x the data per packet.  The cheapest
gear will not support jumbo frames.  all switches, ethernet cards
and your upstream router must support jumbos to use them.  You can
get around the upstream router limitation by having a separate lan
or vlan for the data transfers.

a TCP offload feature on the ethernet card might help, or it might
make things worse.  I have seen cases where it hurt, and disabling
it made a difference.


danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Thu Dec  4 13:57:15 2008
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 13:57:15 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Unix is a Four Letter Word: Unix
Message-ID: <4938280B.9090001@gmail.com>

And Vi is a Two Letter Abbreviation

<http://unix.t-a-y-l-o-r.com/Unix.html>
<http://unix.t-a-y-l-o-r.com/index.html>


From driveray at ameritech.net  Fri Dec  5 17:17:02 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 17:17:02 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] SEMCO Linux install fest Sunday, Feb 8, 2009
Message-ID: <4939A85E.3000201@ameritech.net>

MDLUGers:
The SouthEastern Michigan Computer Organization <http://www.semco.org/> 
will be having a Linux install fest for their members at their Sunday 
Feb 8  2009 meeting. I have volunteered to help co-ordinate this event, 
and we are calling for Linux literate people to help out.

SEMCO meets in an auditorium area on the campus of Arvin Meritor complex 
at 2135 W. Maple Road, in Troy. This is on the South side of Maple Rd. 
East of Coolidge, and West of Crooks. Parking is on the East side of the 
building, so you will need to enter off Maplelawn Drive. As Guests at 
Arvin Meritor we are required to sign in and wear name badges. First 
time visitors will need to arrive about 20 minutes early and get a badge 
at the security office prior to entering the meeting area.

Notice that SEMCO meets on the second Sunday of each month. This is 
usually the day following the second Saturday of the month, except in 
months that begin on Sunday. Such as this coming February. So MDLUG 
members will not have their whole weekend obliterated with meetings by 
participating.

Anyone who thinks they might be able to help out are requested to 
contact <mailto:president at mdlug.org> Please include SEMCO in the subject 
line.

Thanks
Raymond McLaughlin
President MDLUG


From driveray at ameritech.net  Fri Dec  5 18:51:28 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 18:51:28 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] President's mail bag
Message-ID: <4939BE80.4020804@ameritech.net>

Passed along without comment.


> 
> Good Afternoon,
> 
> I found your information on the Ann Arbor Women in Computing's website, I
> am hoping you can pass along the information below to
> students/colleagues/friends and family.  We are a Livonia based software
> company, currently expanding and looking for candidates in software
> development and implementation.  We are hosting a career fair next week,
> anyone is welcome to attend and discuss career opportunities with our
> company.  The information is below, you can also contact us at
> careers1 at workforcesoftware.com or (734)542-4100 and ask to be directed to
> the Recruiter.  
> 
> Announcing the 1st Annual Workforce Software Career Fair
>
> Wednesday December 10, 2008, 4-7pm.  Located at the Detroit Marriott
> Livonia, 17100 Laurel Park Drive North, Livonia, MI 48152
> 
> Workforce Software is having a career fair!  Due to our rapid expansion,
> we're hiring for multiple openings in Software Development and
> Implementation.  Experience levels needed range from entry to
> senior-level.  Specific opportunities are listed below.  If you, or anyone
> you know, are interested in an exciting career opportunity with a rapidly
> expanding software development company, mark your calendars for 4pm on
> Wednesday December 10th, 2008!  This Career Fair will offer you an
> opportunity to meet and discuss career opportunities with Workforce
> Software employees.  Please come prepared with a few copies of your
> resume.  Anyone is welcome- We hope to meet you next Wednesday!  
> 
> Workforce Software develops and implements web-based, enterprise
> application software for employee time and attendance. Our customers are
> large organizations who need to manage their workforce with an enterprise
> class web-based time and attendance system. Our solution is gaining
> widespread acceptance as the industry-leading solution for organizations
> wishing to automate their time and attendance processes. Our system has
> the right functionality and technology and we continue to make large
> investments in new functionality to maintain our market leading position.
> Positions we're currently hiring for include:  
> 
> Java Developers
> 
> Project Manager 
> 
> Project Manager Assistant 
> 
> Business Analyst 
> 
> Implementation Consultants
> 
> Junior Report Writer 
> Junior Quality Assurance Analyst
> 
> Quality Assurance Analyst
> 
> Telesales 
> 
> Support Analyst
> 
> For more information, please visit our website at
> www.workforcesoftware.com <http://www.workforcesoftware.com/> , or e-mail
> careers1 at workforcesoftware.com. 
>


From tesral at comcast.net  Fri Dec  5 23:47:58 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 23:47:58 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] SEMCO Linux install fest Sunday, Feb 8, 2009
In-Reply-To: <4939A85E.3000201@ameritech.net>
References: <4939A85E.3000201@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <493A03FE.7010005@comcast.net>

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> MDLUGers:
> The SouthEastern Michigan Computer Organization <http://www.semco.org/> 
> will be having a Linux install fest for their members at their Sunday 
> Feb 8  2009 meeting. I have volunteered to help co-ordinate this event, 
> and we are calling for Linux literate people to help out.
>
>   
It's further ahead than I usually plan but I'll pencil myself in. 


-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From tesral at comcast.net  Fri Dec  5 23:51:11 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 23:51:11 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] The Burn Box
Message-ID: <493A04BF.9050208@comcast.net>

OK< by now most peoiple know I am keeping a Distro Repository on my Hard
Drive for club use.

I need your help.  Keeping the beast current is an effort, you can
help.  If you download the latest update of your favorite distro, burn
an extra copy for me to rip.  That takes less time than downloading the
sucker.  Also if I have the various members looking out for there pet
distro I'm more likley to have the latest versions for club use.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From driveray at ameritech.net  Fri Dec  5 23:50:07 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 23:50:07 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] SEMCO Linux install fest Sunday, Feb 8, 2009
In-Reply-To: <493A03FE.7010005@comcast.net>
References: <4939A85E.3000201@ameritech.net> <493A03FE.7010005@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <493A047F.8070400@ameritech.net>

Garry Stahl wrote:
> Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
>> MDLUGers:
>> The SouthEastern Michigan Computer Organization <http://www.semco.org/> 
>> will be having a Linux install fest for their members at their Sunday 
>> Feb 8  2009 meeting. I have volunteered to help co-ordinate this event, 
>> and we are calling for Linux literate people to help out.
>>
>>   
> It's further ahead than I usually plan but I'll pencil myself in. 

Good. Just giving everybody plenty of lead time.


From gib at juno.com  Sun Dec  7 12:59:06 2008
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 17:59:06 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  SEMCO Linux install fest Sunday, Feb 8, 2009
Message-ID: <20081207.125906.16342.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>


I put this on my calendar but it is too far ahead for me to commit.

-- Raymond McLaughlin <driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
Garry Stahl wrote:
> Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
>> MDLUGers:
>> The SouthEastern Michigan Computer Organization <http://www.semco.org/> 
>> will be having a Linux install fest for their members at their Sunday 
>> Feb 8  2009 meeting. I have volunteered to help co-ordinate this event, 
>> and we are calling for Linux literate people to help out.
>>
>>   
> It's further ahead than I usually plan but I'll pencil myself in. 

Good. Just giving everybody plenty of lead time.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


____________________________________________________________
Love Graphic Design? Find a school near you. Click Now.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/PnY6rbv7SDAnmSSa06zotvnHG9Z5SkAgwKeluCnL1x03TkaIL7ctm/


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Sun Dec  7 13:22:34 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 13:22:34 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Upcoming Presentation / DD-WRT Router Firmware
Message-ID: <1228674154.8910.36.camel@peter-notebook.site>

Hello All,
	If there's any interest I could present on the dd-wrt router firmware
on a Linksys WRT54GL. It's no longer my primary router and I can easily
disconnect it and bring it in. My presentation would be basically
running through the configuration screens, which are many. I'm sure most
of the membership knows much more about the specifics, but show and tell
can be helpful at times.

Best Regards,
	
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From driveray at ameritech.net  Sun Dec  7 14:38:41 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 14:38:41 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Upcoming Presentation / DD-WRT Router Firmware
In-Reply-To: <1228674154.8910.36.camel@peter-notebook.site>
References: <1228674154.8910.36.camel@peter-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <493C2641.7070604@ameritech.net>

Peter Bart wrote:
> Hello All,
> 	If there's any interest I could present on the dd-wrt router firmware
> on a Linksys WRT54GL. It's no longer my primary router and I can easily
> disconnect it and bring it in. My presentation would be basically
> running through the configuration screens, which are many. I'm sure most
> of the membership knows much more about the specifics, but show and tell
> can be helpful at times.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 	

Sounds Interesting. Is this firmware that you flashed yourself, as 
opposed to OEM?


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Sun Dec  7 15:09:48 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 15:09:48 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Upcoming Presentation / DD-WRT Router Firmware
In-Reply-To: <493C2641.7070604@ameritech.net>
References: <1228674154.8910.36.camel@peter-notebook.site>
	<493C2641.7070604@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <1228680588.8910.43.camel@peter-notebook.site>


On Sun, 2008-12-07 at 14:38 -0500, Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Peter Bart wrote:
> > Hello All,
> > 	If there's any interest I could present on the dd-wrt router firmware
> > on a Linksys WRT54GL. It's no longer my primary router and I can easily
> > disconnect it and bring it in. My presentation would be basically
> > running through the configuration screens, which are many. I'm sure most
> > of the membership knows much more about the specifics, but show and tell
> > can be helpful at times.
> > 
> > Best Regards,
> > 	
> 
> Sounds Interesting. Is this firmware that you flashed yourself, as 
> opposed to OEM?

	It is in fact third party firmware I have flashed onto several routers
as well as upgraded the original router firmware from a previous dd-wrt
firmware.

<http://dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page>

	As I mentioned this would be more of a show and tell than anything
else. I simply follow the directions; most of the time; do this or don't
do that. So while I have a very basic understanding of things any of
your members will know much more about the nuts and bolts behind this
than I.

Best Regards,

-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From gib at juno.com  Sun Dec  7 19:22:36 2008
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 00:22:36 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  Upcoming Presentation / DD-WRT Router Firmware
Message-ID: <20081207.192236.27319.0@webmail01.vgs.untd.com>


I have a WRT54G and a WRT54GS.  I'll try to bring them both.

Also, I've asked some new members to a new organization to stop by. We hope to talk about this new group.  It's the Motor City Free Geeks:

http://MotorCityFreeGeek.com

- Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:


On Sun, 2008-12-07 at 14:38 -0500, Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Peter Bart wrote:
> > Hello All,
> > 	If there's any interest I could present on the dd-wrt router firmware
> > on a Linksys WRT54GL. It's no longer my primary router and I can easily
> > disconnect it and bring it in. My presentation would be basically
> > running through the configuration screens, which are many. I'm sure most
> > of the membership knows much more about the specifics, but show and tell
> > can be helpful at times.
> > 
> > Best Regards,
> > 	
> 
> Sounds Interesting. Is this firmware that you flashed yourself, as 
> opposed to OEM?

	It is in fact third party firmware I have flashed onto several routers
as well as upgraded the original router firmware from a previous dd-wrt
firmware.

<http://dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page>

	As I mentioned this would be more of a show and tell than anything
else. I simply follow the directions; most of the time; do this or don't
do that. So while I have a very basic understanding of things any of
your members will know much more about the nuts and bolts behind this
than I.

Best Regards,

-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


____________________________________________________________
Click for free quote on refinancing your mortgage.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/PnY6rbupltQuLdBWah1FfzzN8sEt584gG7SvYaOmpCcps1UV6ekj6/


From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Tue Dec  9 13:32:54 2008
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 13:32:54 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools
References: <268F49D5ADF245A0924E695327BE5CD8@AMD2000>
	<8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06949009@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
Message-ID: <C7A15735B50F43DA850528AE694CA070@AMD2000>

Greg,

You have any luck with Spacewalk?
It is not an easy tool to install and configure, that's for sure..  Also, the wiki docs seem a bit disorganized.  It took me several attempts to get it installed and working.  Then I had trouble with the channels.  Mainly adding clients to a channel.  I was finally able to add a client to a channel, populate it with a few RPMs, and push the RPMs to the client.  Also, I noticed that the rhnsd client daemon wakes up every 240 minutes (default) and checks the spacewalk server for any actions.  I had initially thought that was 240 seconds.  So an "apply now" action could really be hours later.

-Mike
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Wojtak, Greg 
  To: MDLUG's Main discussion list 
  Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:38 AM
  Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools


  Ah, the holy grail for CentOS/RHEL systems (aside from paying Red Hat
  $13,000 a year for a satellite server!).

  I am looking for the same thing (and I'm sure any other Linux Sysadmin
  is) for years.  I'm still using the strategy of "install updates on dev
  server, keep the rpm's that were downloaded, move them to test, then
  production, and pray to God that the same packages are in sync across
  all environments."  

  Not very efficient.  I've been looking into building a yum server and
  configuring the yum-updatesd to download the packages that I roll out.
  A little better than using cron, but not by much.

  I'd be interested to hear if you find anything.

  Greg Wojtak

  -----Original Message-----
  From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
  Of Michael ORourke
  Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:29 AM
  To: MDLUG's main mailing list
  Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools

  Lug nuts,

  I'm looking for some recommendations, specifically for the CentOS 5.2 
  distribution, for a centralized package management system or tools.
  I've 
  spent some time doing vaious Google searches, but haven't found what I
  was 
  looking for aside from basic tools such as 'yum' and 'up2date', which
  are 
  designed to run on a single host.  I was hoping that I would stumble
  upon 
  some existing tools that could be leveraged in an existing environment.
  What I would really like is:
  * Gui tools (browser based).
  * Internal centralized server (package repository).
  * Centralized management (for development, QA, & production).
  * Ability to schedule updates and manually push updates.
  * Auditing capabilities (which servers have what packages installed).
  * Ability to manage servers by group (e.g. Dev App servers).

  Running 'yum -update' from cron on each server isn't a good strategy, 
  especially when it comes to production systems.  I would like to have
  the 
  capability to pull down patches to a centralized server, then push the 
  patches/updates to the development/QA environment, and finally out to
  the 
  production systems after testing is completed.
  Is that too much to ask for.  :-)
  Any suggestions/recommendations/ideas?

  Thanks,
  Mike 

  _______________________________________________
  mdlug mailing list
  mdlug at mdlug.org
  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
  _______________________________________________
  mdlug mailing list
  mdlug at mdlug.org
  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


------------------------------------------------------------------------------



  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 
  Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.12/1822 - Release Date: 12/1/2008 8:23 AM


From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Tue Dec  9 14:04:55 2008
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 14:04:55 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools
In-Reply-To: <C7A15735B50F43DA850528AE694CA070@AMD2000>
References: <268F49D5ADF245A0924E695327BE5CD8@AMD2000><8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06949009@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<C7A15735B50F43DA850528AE694CA070@AMD2000>
Message-ID: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06949944@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

It sounds like we are having the same problems.  I can't get a channel
created - when I click on the Manage Entitlement Channels link it takes
me to the Overview page, so I had to use the python script to create the
channel manually.  Still no go, I can't get a client registered.  I
asked about it on the Spacewalk list but haven't heard back about that
particular issue.  How did you get a client registered?

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Michael ORourke
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:33 PM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools

Greg,

You have any luck with Spacewalk?
It is not an easy tool to install and configure, that's for sure..
Also, the wiki docs seem a bit disorganized.  It took me several
attempts to get it installed and working.  Then I had trouble with the
channels.  Mainly adding clients to a channel.  I was finally able to
add a client to a channel, populate it with a few RPMs, and push the
RPMs to the client.  Also, I noticed that the rhnsd client daemon wakes
up every 240 minutes (default) and checks the spacewalk server for any
actions.  I had initially thought that was 240 seconds.  So an "apply
now" action could really be hours later.

-Mike
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Wojtak, Greg 
  To: MDLUG's Main discussion list 
  Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:38 AM
  Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools


  Ah, the holy grail for CentOS/RHEL systems (aside from paying Red Hat
  $13,000 a year for a satellite server!).

  I am looking for the same thing (and I'm sure any other Linux Sysadmin
  is) for years.  I'm still using the strategy of "install updates on
dev
  server, keep the rpm's that were downloaded, move them to test, then
  production, and pray to God that the same packages are in sync across
  all environments."  

  Not very efficient.  I've been looking into building a yum server and
  configuring the yum-updatesd to download the packages that I roll out.
  A little better than using cron, but not by much.

  I'd be interested to hear if you find anything.

  Greg Wojtak

  -----Original Message-----
  From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On
Behalf
  Of Michael ORourke
  Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:29 AM
  To: MDLUG's main mailing list
  Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools

  Lug nuts,

  I'm looking for some recommendations, specifically for the CentOS 5.2 
  distribution, for a centralized package management system or tools.
  I've 
  spent some time doing vaious Google searches, but haven't found what I
  was 
  looking for aside from basic tools such as 'yum' and 'up2date', which
  are 
  designed to run on a single host.  I was hoping that I would stumble
  upon 
  some existing tools that could be leveraged in an existing
environment.
  What I would really like is:
  * Gui tools (browser based).
  * Internal centralized server (package repository).
  * Centralized management (for development, QA, & production).
  * Ability to schedule updates and manually push updates.
  * Auditing capabilities (which servers have what packages installed).
  * Ability to manage servers by group (e.g. Dev App servers).

  Running 'yum -update' from cron on each server isn't a good strategy, 
  especially when it comes to production systems.  I would like to have
  the 
  capability to pull down patches to a centralized server, then push the

  patches/updates to the development/QA environment, and finally out to
  the 
  production systems after testing is completed.
  Is that too much to ask for.  :-)
  Any suggestions/recommendations/ideas?

  Thanks,
  Mike 

  _______________________________________________
  mdlug mailing list
  mdlug at mdlug.org
  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
  _______________________________________________
  mdlug mailing list
  mdlug at mdlug.org
  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


------------------------------------------------------------------------
------



  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 
  Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.12/1822 - Release Date:
12/1/2008 8:23 AM
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Tue Dec  9 17:00:13 2008
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 17:00:13 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools
References: <268F49D5ADF245A0924E695327BE5CD8@AMD2000><8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06949009@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com><C7A15735B50F43DA850528AE694CA070@AMD2000>
	<8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06949944@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
Message-ID: <00472CAFC72D4F9F939640A46EE2DEAA@AMD2000>

I'm currently doing a reinstall, and I plan on taking better notes this time.
Strange thing, I was able to register a system with my spacewalk server, but I was not able to join any channels.  Until I created a channel manually with that script.  Were you able to register a client with your spacewalk server? 
I don't remember the exact steps I took to be able to register and join the channel, but I did have it working.  This time around, I should have some better notes that I can share regarding the proceedure.  Hopefully I can get it working again!  :-)

-Mike

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Wojtak, Greg 
  To: MDLUG's Main discussion list 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 2:04 PM
  Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools


  It sounds like we are having the same problems.  I can't get a channel
  created - when I click on the Manage Entitlement Channels link it takes
  me to the Overview page, so I had to use the python script to create the
  channel manually.  Still no go, I can't get a client registered.  I
  asked about it on the Spacewalk list but haven't heard back about that
  particular issue.  How did you get a client registered?

  -----Original Message-----
  From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
  Of Michael ORourke
  Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:33 PM
  To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
  Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools

  Greg,

  You have any luck with Spacewalk?
  It is not an easy tool to install and configure, that's for sure..
  Also, the wiki docs seem a bit disorganized.  It took me several
  attempts to get it installed and working.  Then I had trouble with the
  channels.  Mainly adding clients to a channel.  I was finally able to
  add a client to a channel, populate it with a few RPMs, and push the
  RPMs to the client.  Also, I noticed that the rhnsd client daemon wakes
  up every 240 minutes (default) and checks the spacewalk server for any
  actions.  I had initially thought that was 240 seconds.  So an "apply
  now" action could really be hours later.

  -Mike
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Wojtak, Greg 
    To: MDLUG's Main discussion list 
    Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:38 AM
    Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools


    Ah, the holy grail for CentOS/RHEL systems (aside from paying Red Hat
    $13,000 a year for a satellite server!).

    I am looking for the same thing (and I'm sure any other Linux Sysadmin
    is) for years.  I'm still using the strategy of "install updates on
  dev
    server, keep the rpm's that were downloaded, move them to test, then
    production, and pray to God that the same packages are in sync across
    all environments."  

    Not very efficient.  I've been looking into building a yum server and
    configuring the yum-updatesd to download the packages that I roll out.
    A little better than using cron, but not by much.

    I'd be interested to hear if you find anything.

    Greg Wojtak

    -----Original Message-----
    From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On
  Behalf
    Of Michael ORourke
    Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:29 AM
    To: MDLUG's main mailing list
    Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools

    Lug nuts,

    I'm looking for some recommendations, specifically for the CentOS 5.2 
    distribution, for a centralized package management system or tools.
    I've 
    spent some time doing vaious Google searches, but haven't found what I
    was 
    looking for aside from basic tools such as 'yum' and 'up2date', which
    are 
    designed to run on a single host.  I was hoping that I would stumble
    upon 
    some existing tools that could be leveraged in an existing
  environment.
    What I would really like is:
    * Gui tools (browser based).
    * Internal centralized server (package repository).
    * Centralized management (for development, QA, & production).
    * Ability to schedule updates and manually push updates.
    * Auditing capabilities (which servers have what packages installed).
    * Ability to manage servers by group (e.g. Dev App servers).

    Running 'yum -update' from cron on each server isn't a good strategy, 
    especially when it comes to production systems.  I would like to have
    the 
    capability to pull down patches to a centralized server, then push the

    patches/updates to the development/QA environment, and finally out to
    the 
    production systems after testing is completed.
    Is that too much to ask for.  :-)
    Any suggestions/recommendations/ideas?

    Thanks,
    Mike 

    _______________________________________________
    mdlug mailing list
    mdlug at mdlug.org
    http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
    _______________________________________________
    mdlug mailing list
    mdlug at mdlug.org
    http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
  ------



    No virus found in this incoming message.
    Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 
    Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.12/1822 - Release Date:
  12/1/2008 8:23 AM
  _______________________________________________
  mdlug mailing list
  mdlug at mdlug.org
  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
  _______________________________________________
  mdlug mailing list
  mdlug at mdlug.org
  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


------------------------------------------------------------------------------



  Internal Virus Database is out of date.
  Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 
  Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.14/1829 - Release Date: 12/4/2008 2:59 PM


From otakurider at gmail.com  Wed Dec 10 07:54:18 2008
From: otakurider at gmail.com (-)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 07:54:18 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Sad state of schools but hope may be with students
Message-ID: <cd5131a50812100454l5be0bad3s883463f35554e838@mail.gmail.com>

This may be already know but it was a interesting read - base link from
slashdot and digg


http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding-our-kids-back.html


From rkannan at peoplepc.com  Wed Dec 10 09:07:07 2008
From: rkannan at peoplepc.com (R. Kannan)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 09:07:07 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: [mdlug] Sad state of schools but hope may be with students
Message-ID: <24716557.1228918028217.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>


A few comments on this article seem to indicate that this story is made up. I cannot believe such stupidity exists among our teachers. Has the author of the story been proven to be not credible in the past?

-----Original Message-----
>From: - <otakurider at gmail.com>
>Sent: Dec 10, 2008 7:54 AM
>To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>Subject: [mdlug] Sad state of schools but hope may be with students
>
>This may be already know but it was a interesting read - base link from
>slashdot and digg
>
>
>http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding-our-kids-back.html
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com


From radkins at impelind.com  Wed Dec 10 09:22:55 2008
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 09:22:55 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Sad state of schools but hope may be with students
In-Reply-To: <24716557.1228918028217.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20081210143121.241F1C0C6@impelind.com>

I most certainly can believe that such rank stupidity exists within some
teachers.

I have personally experienced more than a few handfuls of teachers who have
exhibited such viewpoints and general ignorance of Information Technology.

One "shinging" example is an "instructor" I had at OCC for an Introduction
to Web Systems class. It was essentially a how to use Dreamweaver course.
The man was the most pig ignorant person that I have ever interacted with.

He actually told a story about how it's wise to use the right kind of fonts
on your webpage and then went on to tell the story about how his page looked
great on his computer, but the fonts were different on his girlfriend's
computer, which messed up the page's layout. So, he attempted to fix the
problem by buying her a new monitor, only to discover that wasn't the
problem.

He went on complaining about how he really disliked Dreamweaver and really
wanted to be teaching the class Frontpage, because "Microsoft is the best
thing in the world!" but he was forced to teach this class Dreamweaver. He
was happy that his other classes covered Frontpage.

This vile example of an instructor even proclaimed to the class that nobody
in the course would be receiving an A. The best grade he would ever give is
an A-, because he *knows* that nobody can ever be "perfect". This attitude
of his was something he lorded over the entire class for the entire
semester.

He really was clueless and believed that only Microsoft Products were usable
in the "Real World".

I have personally interacted with similarly clueless individuals and quite
frankly, it is perfectly believable that there exists such an instructor as
described in that Slashdot lniked article.

-Rob

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of R. Kannan
> Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 9:07 AM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Sad state of schools but hope may be 
> with students
> 
> 
> A few comments on this article seem to indicate that this 
> story is made up. I cannot believe such stupidity exists 
> among our teachers. Has the author of the story been proven 
> to be not credible in the past?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: - <otakurider at gmail.com>
> >Sent: Dec 10, 2008 7:54 AM
> >To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> >Subject: [mdlug] Sad state of schools but hope may be with students
> >
> >This may be already know but it was a interesting read - 
> base link from 
> >slashdot and digg
> >
> >
> >http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding-our-
> kids-back.
> >html _______________________________________________
> >mdlug mailing list
> >mdlug at mdlug.org
> >http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 
> 
> ________________________________________
> PeoplePC Online
> A better way to Internet
> http://www.peoplepc.com
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 



From mark at metrofindings.com  Wed Dec 10 10:36:34 2008
From: mark at metrofindings.com (Mark Kimsal)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 10:36:34 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Sad state of schools but hope may be with students
In-Reply-To: <24716557.1228918028217.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <24716557.1228918028217.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <200812101036.34226.mark@metrofindings.com>

On Wednesday 10 December 08, R. Kannan wrote:
> A few comments on this article seem to indicate that this story is made up.
> I cannot believe such stupidity exists among our teachers. Has the author
> of the story been proven to be not credible in the past?

Hah, you can tell it's 100% made up because there's a Windows users who thinks 
operating systems cost money.  The majority of technically under-educated 
people I know have no clue how much Windows costs, that you can buy it from 
the store, or that it is even separable from a computer.  POST tests, BIOS 
screens, boot logos and desktops all kind of blur together to make "the 
computer".  

The level of technical competence expressed by the teacher in question tips 
their hand too much.  A person with that much computer knowledge has probably 
heard of free (even discounting Free) software.

Basically, if you start throwing around the word "operating system", you can't 
be so out-of-it as to not have heard of Linux/FOSS.  The situation loses a 
lot of credibility with me at that point.

Add in the end of the letter, which suggests begging MS for old copies of 
Windows (which there's no way you could get even if you tried to pay for 
them), and you get a pretty poorly made up story... at least it seems that 
way to me.


On a related note... would confiscating all the CDs constitute a DoS attack on 
the kid's software?

> -----Original Message-----
>
> >From: - <otakurider at gmail.com>
> >Sent: Dec 10, 2008 7:54 AM
> >To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> >Subject: [mdlug] Sad state of schools but hope may be with students
> >
> >This may be already know but it was a interesting read - base link from
> >slashdot and digg
> >
> >
> >http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding-our-kids-back.htm
> >l _______________________________________________
> >mdlug mailing list
> >mdlug at mdlug.org
> >http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
> ________________________________________
> PeoplePC Online
> A better way to Internet
> http://www.peoplepc.com
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



-- 
***************************************************************************
Electronic Mail is not secure, may not be read every day, and should not be 
used for urgent or sensitive issues.

Mark Kimsal
http://biz.metrofindings.com/
fax: 866-375-1590


From newmaniese at gmail.com  Wed Dec 10 11:39:07 2008
From: newmaniese at gmail.com (Michael)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 11:39:07 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Sad state of schools but hope may be with students
In-Reply-To: <200812101036.34226.mark@metrofindings.com>
References: <24716557.1228918028217.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<200812101036.34226.mark@metrofindings.com>
Message-ID: <225acb190812100839n19380a85wc5c1983ba7bdba85@mail.gmail.com>

My wife is a teacher and they rely on Windows computers at school. When she
started working there they didn't have a decent word processor and so she
installed Open Office, everyone is thrilled. One of the main reasons that
the school doesn't do away with with the windows tax is purely because they
can find support for anything but.
She is young like me and therefore is asked when it comes to decisions on
the computer side of things. She is excited by the linux star gazer programs
and things like Firefox which can be programmed to only allow access to
certain sites and ad block and the works for enhancing the student
experience with computers.

I think it would be such an awesome service for a local linux group to get
together and roll together a Distribution and provide support to a
classroom. I know distributed upgrades and maintenance is so easy, that kind
of thing would really save a lot of time. I remember a lot of collaboration
ideas and backup thoughts from the OLPC that could easily be rolled out to
computers through out a network.

This has been an idea I have had for the last year or so and really think
that linux could make a huge push in schools where they are paying thousands
of dollars a year for support and limiting student's access to computers due
to spyware and the accidental porn site that kids/teachers tend to figure
out the fastest possible way to navigate to.

I would be really interested to get together with some tech savvy people and
possibly roll together a mock plan if a group were to want to support/roll
out software to elementary schools/classrooms. I don't know if it is
feasible; if people have the time to do something like this, but we all know
the benefits of linux and there is something to be said for volunteering for
our young people to have greater access to information.

Well that is my idea. It might be like the bulk of them and go nowhere, but
I really feel sorry for kids who are only allowed to go in the computer with
the teacher looking over their shoulder and feel like there is so much that
we could do to help out.

My 2c,

Michael


On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 10:36 AM, Mark Kimsal <mark at metrofindings.com>wrote:

> On Wednesday 10 December 08, R. Kannan wrote:
> > A few comments on this article seem to indicate that this story is made
> up.
> > I cannot believe such stupidity exists among our teachers. Has the author
> > of the story been proven to be not credible in the past?
>
> Hah, you can tell it's 100% made up because there's a Windows users who
> thinks
> operating systems cost money.  The majority of technically under-educated
> people I know have no clue how much Windows costs, that you can buy it from
> the store, or that it is even separable from a computer.  POST tests, BIOS
> screens, boot logos and desktops all kind of blur together to make "the
> computer".
>
> The level of technical competence expressed by the teacher in question tips
> their hand too much.  A person with that much computer knowledge has
> probably
> heard of free (even discounting Free) software.
>
> Basically, if you start throwing around the word "operating system", you
> can't
> be so out-of-it as to not have heard of Linux/FOSS.  The situation loses a
> lot of credibility with me at that point.
>
> Add in the end of the letter, which suggests begging MS for old copies of
> Windows (which there's no way you could get even if you tried to pay for
> them), and you get a pretty poorly made up story... at least it seems that
> way to me.
>
>
> On a related note... would confiscating all the CDs constitute a DoS attack
> on
> the kid's software?
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
> > >From: - <otakurider at gmail.com>
> > >Sent: Dec 10, 2008 7:54 AM
> > >To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> > >Subject: [mdlug] Sad state of schools but hope may be with students
> > >
> > >This may be already know but it was a interesting read - base link from
> > >slashdot and digg
> > >
> > >
> > >
> http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding-our-kids-back.htm
> > >l _______________________________________________
> > >mdlug mailing list
> > >mdlug at mdlug.org
> > >http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > PeoplePC Online
> > A better way to Internet
> > http://www.peoplepc.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > mdlug mailing list
> > mdlug at mdlug.org
> > http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>
>
> --
> ***************************************************************************
> Electronic Mail is not secure, may not be read every day, and should not be
> used for urgent or sensitive issues.
>
> Mark Kimsal
> http://biz.metrofindings.com/
> fax: 866-375-1590
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From mark at metrofindings.com  Wed Dec 10 12:03:29 2008
From: mark at metrofindings.com (Mark Kimsal)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:03:29 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Sad state of schools but hope may be with students
In-Reply-To: <225acb190812100839n19380a85wc5c1983ba7bdba85@mail.gmail.com>
References: <24716557.1228918028217.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<200812101036.34226.mark@metrofindings.com>
	<225acb190812100839n19380a85wc5c1983ba7bdba85@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200812101203.29279.mark@metrofindings.com>

On Wednesday 10 December 08, Michael wrote:
> My wife is a teacher and they rely on Windows computers at school. When she
> started working there they didn't have a decent word processor and so she
> installed Open Office, everyone is thrilled. One of the main reasons that
> the school doesn't do away with with the windows tax is purely because they
> can find support for anything but.
> She is young like me and therefore is asked when it comes to decisions on
> the computer side of things. She is excited by the linux star gazer
> programs and things like Firefox which can be programmed to only allow
> access to certain sites and ad block and the works for enhancing the
> student experience with computers.
>
> I think it would be such an awesome service for a local linux group to get
> together and roll together a Distribution and provide support to a
> classroom. I know distributed upgrades and maintenance is so easy, that
> kind of thing would really save a lot of time. I remember a lot of
> collaboration ideas and backup thoughts from the OLPC that could easily be
> rolled out to computers through out a network.

You have to figure out what the real IT road-blocks are.  I've suggested doing 
something like this two 2 schools and they both come back with a litany of 
Windows programs for which they need a direct cognate; some sort of content 
filtering, like net-nanny, some sort of firewall, anti-virus, 
ActiveDirectory, IE, Flash (before flash on linux was out), Shockwave (after 
flash on linux was out)...  As soon as you suggest a feasible alternative 
product, another "must-have" pops up that delays any serious talks about 
migrating.

The one school which actually got past all the software-hurdles couldn't 
migrate because they got free support from somebody who only knew MS, and I 
wouldn't provide free hardware and software support.

> This has been an idea I have had for the last year or so and really think
> that linux could make a huge push in schools where they are paying
> thousands of dollars a year for support and limiting student's access to
> computers due to spyware and the accidental porn site that kids/teachers
> tend to figure out the fastest possible way to navigate to.
>
> I would be really interested to get together with some tech savvy people
> and possibly roll together a mock plan if a group were to want to
> support/roll out software to elementary schools/classrooms. I don't know if
> it is feasible; if people have the time to do something like this, but we
> all know the benefits of linux and there is something to be said for
> volunteering for our young people to have greater access to information.

I don't think it would be truly feasible to have a group of volunteers manage 
a school's network.  At some point, somebody has to be by a phone to help 
with real problems.  If a local school system were to transfer the software 
licensing fees to an individual, or group of individuals for a 24/7 support 
contract, I don't think there would be any road blocks to a school using 
linux on their networks.

In my experience, the only roadblock to schools using open source is their 
inability, or unwillingness, to pay for support.  They'll gladly pay software 
licensing fees up front with no questions about how the closed source 
software works and then ask for free support when it breaks. But, they flip 
side I have yet to see... use free products and pay for support.  The usual 
story is because they don't have it in their budget... the budget is already 
full of licensing costs.

It's the classic argument of spend your budget locally on local experts... 
keep money in the state instead of sending it to Redmond... it's a win win 
for everybody.

That's just my experience trying to knock on doors and get schools to switch 
to Linux.

I have a real hard time believing that schools do a lot of real research on 
open source.  I used to go to OU and they migrated from blackboard to moodle 
while i was attending classes there.  I never got a call about logicampus.  
Even though there is only a short list of about 5 open source campus learning 
programs, and the developer of one was attending school at their own 
institution, I never got a call or an e-mail.


> Well that is my idea. It might be like the bulk of them and go nowhere, but
> I really feel sorry for kids who are only allowed to go in the computer
> with the teacher looking over their shoulder and feel like there is so much
> that we could do to help out.

As long as schools stay at arm's length from open source, neither your idea 
nor their institutions will go anywhere interesting.

> My 2c,
>
> Michael
>
> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 10:36 AM, Mark Kimsal <mark at metrofindings.com>wrote:
> > On Wednesday 10 December 08, R. Kannan wrote:
> > > A few comments on this article seem to indicate that this story is made
> >
> > up.
> >
> > > I cannot believe such stupidity exists among our teachers. Has the
> > > author of the story been proven to be not credible in the past?
> >
> > Hah, you can tell it's 100% made up because there's a Windows users who
> > thinks
> > operating systems cost money.  The majority of technically under-educated
> > people I know have no clue how much Windows costs, that you can buy it
> > from the store, or that it is even separable from a computer.  POST
> > tests, BIOS screens, boot logos and desktops all kind of blur together to
> > make "the computer".
> >
> > The level of technical competence expressed by the teacher in question
> > tips their hand too much.  A person with that much computer knowledge has
> > probably
> > heard of free (even discounting Free) software.
> >
> > Basically, if you start throwing around the word "operating system", you
> > can't
> > be so out-of-it as to not have heard of Linux/FOSS.  The situation loses
> > a lot of credibility with me at that point.
> >
> > Add in the end of the letter, which suggests begging MS for old copies of
> > Windows (which there's no way you could get even if you tried to pay for
> > them), and you get a pretty poorly made up story... at least it seems
> > that way to me.
> >
> >
> > On a related note... would confiscating all the CDs constitute a DoS
> > attack on
> > the kid's software?
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > >
> > > >From: - <otakurider at gmail.com>
> > > >Sent: Dec 10, 2008 7:54 AM
> > > >To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> > > >Subject: [mdlug] Sad state of schools but hope may be with students
> > > >
> > > >This may be already know but it was a interesting read - base link
> > > > from slashdot and digg
> >
> > http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding-our-kids-back.ht
> >m
> >
> > > >l _______________________________________________
> > > >mdlug mailing list
> > > >mdlug at mdlug.org
> > > >http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> > >
> > > ________________________________________
> > > PeoplePC Online
> > > A better way to Internet
> > > http://www.peoplepc.com
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > mdlug mailing list
> > > mdlug at mdlug.org
> > > http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> >
> > --
> > *************************************************************************
> >** Electronic Mail is not secure, may not be read every day, and should
> > not be used for urgent or sensitive issues.
> >
> > Mark Kimsal
> > http://biz.metrofindings.com/
> > fax: 866-375-1590
> > _______________________________________________
> > mdlug mailing list
> > mdlug at mdlug.org
> > http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



-- 
***************************************************************************
Electronic Mail is not secure, may not be read every day, and should not be 
used for urgent or sensitive issues.

Mark Kimsal
http://biz.metrofindings.com/
fax: 866-375-1590


From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Thu Dec 11 08:32:29 2008
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 08:32:29 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools *update*
References: <268F49D5ADF245A0924E695327BE5CD8@AMD2000><8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06949009@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com><C7A15735B50F43DA850528AE694CA070@AMD2000><8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06949944@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<00472CAFC72D4F9F939640A46EE2DEAA@AMD2000>
Message-ID: <E0D22DAEC3124E98A03D8C975B872EE5@AMD2000>

Okay...  here is what I did thus far.
1. Standard install, followed directions on the Wiki.
2. Created a new 'activation key' within Spacewalk GUI.
    Systems --> Activation Keys --> Create new key
    Using these values...
    Description: Default Key
    Key: <blank>
    Usage: <blank>
    Base Channels: Spacewalk Default
    Add-On Entitlements: <nothing checked>
    Universal Default: Checked
3. Created software channel using python script
    Example:
    create_channel.py --label "centos-5.2-i386" --name "CentOS 5.2 
32-bit" --summary "32-bit CentOS 5.2 channel"
4. Attempt to join a client to spacewalk (failed)
    Example:
    rhnreg_ks --verbose --force --activationkey="<default key created with 
spacewalk GUI " --serverUrl http://myspacewalk.server.local/XMLRPC
5. Disabled firewall on spacewalk server.
6. Retry the join (failed)
7. Admin --> Spacewalk Configuration --> Restart (takes about 5 minutes on 
our system)
8. Verify spacewalk is up and running, then retry join (Success!)

-Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Michael ORourke
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools


I'm currently doing a reinstall, and I plan on taking better notes this 
time.
Strange thing, I was able to register a system with my spacewalk server, but 
I was not able to join any channels.  Until I created a channel manually 
with that script.  Were you able to register a client with your spacewalk 
server?
I don't remember the exact steps I took to be able to register and join the 
channel, but I did have it working.  This time around, I should have some 
better notes that I can share regarding the proceedure.  Hopefully I can get 
it working again!  :-)

-Mike

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Wojtak, Greg
  To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
  Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 2:04 PM
  Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools


  It sounds like we are having the same problems.  I can't get a channel
  created - when I click on the Manage Entitlement Channels link it takes
  me to the Overview page, so I had to use the python script to create the
  channel manually.  Still no go, I can't get a client registered.  I
  asked about it on the Spacewalk list but haven't heard back about that
  particular issue.  How did you get a client registered?

  -----Original Message-----
  From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
  Of Michael ORourke
  Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:33 PM
  To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
  Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools

  Greg,

  You have any luck with Spacewalk?
  It is not an easy tool to install and configure, that's for sure..
  Also, the wiki docs seem a bit disorganized.  It took me several
  attempts to get it installed and working.  Then I had trouble with the
  channels.  Mainly adding clients to a channel.  I was finally able to
  add a client to a channel, populate it with a few RPMs, and push the
  RPMs to the client.  Also, I noticed that the rhnsd client daemon wakes
  up every 240 minutes (default) and checks the spacewalk server for any
  actions.  I had initially thought that was 240 seconds.  So an "apply
  now" action could really be hours later.

  -Mike
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Wojtak, Greg
    To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
    Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:38 AM
    Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools


    Ah, the holy grail for CentOS/RHEL systems (aside from paying Red Hat
    $13,000 a year for a satellite server!).

    I am looking for the same thing (and I'm sure any other Linux Sysadmin
    is) for years.  I'm still using the strategy of "install updates on
  dev
    server, keep the rpm's that were downloaded, move them to test, then
    production, and pray to God that the same packages are in sync across
    all environments."

    Not very efficient.  I've been looking into building a yum server and
    configuring the yum-updatesd to download the packages that I roll out.
    A little better than using cron, but not by much.

    I'd be interested to hear if you find anything.

    Greg Wojtak

    -----Original Message-----
    From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On
  Behalf
    Of Michael ORourke
    Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:29 AM
    To: MDLUG's main mailing list
    Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools

    Lug nuts,

    I'm looking for some recommendations, specifically for the CentOS 5.2
    distribution, for a centralized package management system or tools.
    I've
    spent some time doing vaious Google searches, but haven't found what I
    was
    looking for aside from basic tools such as 'yum' and 'up2date', which
    are
    designed to run on a single host.  I was hoping that I would stumble
    upon
    some existing tools that could be leveraged in an existing
  environment.
    What I would really like is:
    * Gui tools (browser based).
    * Internal centralized server (package repository).
    * Centralized management (for development, QA, & production).
    * Ability to schedule updates and manually push updates.
    * Auditing capabilities (which servers have what packages installed).
    * Ability to manage servers by group (e.g. Dev App servers).

    Running 'yum -update' from cron on each server isn't a good strategy,
    especially when it comes to production systems.  I would like to have
    the
    capability to pull down patches to a centralized server, then push the

    patches/updates to the development/QA environment, and finally out to
    the
    production systems after testing is completed.
    Is that too much to ask for.  :-)
    Any suggestions/recommendations/ideas?

    Thanks,
    Mike

    _______________________________________________
    mdlug mailing list
    mdlug at mdlug.org
    http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
    _______________________________________________
    mdlug mailing list
    mdlug at mdlug.org
    http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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    No virus found in this incoming message.
    Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
    Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.12/1822 - Release Date:
  12/1/2008 8:23 AM
  _______________________________________________
  mdlug mailing list
  mdlug at mdlug.org
  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
  _______________________________________________
  mdlug mailing list
  mdlug at mdlug.org
  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


------------------------------------------------------------------------------



  Internal Virus Database is out of date.
  Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
  Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.14/1829 - Release Date: 12/4/2008 
2:59 PM
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.14/1829 - Release Date: 12/4/2008 
2:59 PM 



From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Thu Dec 11 09:14:46 2008
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:14:46 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools *update*
In-Reply-To: <E0D22DAEC3124E98A03D8C975B872EE5@AMD2000>
References: <268F49D5ADF245A0924E695327BE5CD8@AMD2000><8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06949009@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com><C7A15735B50F43DA850528AE694CA070@AMD2000><8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06949944@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com><00472CAFC72D4F9F939640A46EE2DEAA@AMD2000>
	<E0D22DAEC3124E98A03D8C975B872EE5@AMD2000>
Message-ID: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06ACC112@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

I'll give her a go and let you know my results.  I was attempting to do
rhnreg_ks --activationkey="whatever"
--serverUrl=http://spacewalk.fqdn.com/XMLRPC --username=gwojtak
--password=<my password>

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Michael ORourke
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 8:32 AM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools *update*

Okay...  here is what I did thus far.
1. Standard install, followed directions on the Wiki.
2. Created a new 'activation key' within Spacewalk GUI.
    Systems --> Activation Keys --> Create new key
    Using these values...
    Description: Default Key
    Key: <blank>
    Usage: <blank>
    Base Channels: Spacewalk Default
    Add-On Entitlements: <nothing checked>
    Universal Default: Checked
3. Created software channel using python script
    Example:
    create_channel.py --label "centos-5.2-i386" --name "CentOS 5.2 
32-bit" --summary "32-bit CentOS 5.2 channel"
4. Attempt to join a client to spacewalk (failed)
    Example:
    rhnreg_ks --verbose --force --activationkey="<default key created
with 
spacewalk GUI " --serverUrl http://myspacewalk.server.local/XMLRPC
5. Disabled firewall on spacewalk server.
6. Retry the join (failed)
7. Admin --> Spacewalk Configuration --> Restart (takes about 5 minutes
on 
our system)
8. Verify spacewalk is up and running, then retry join (Success!)

-Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Michael ORourke
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools


I'm currently doing a reinstall, and I plan on taking better notes this 
time.
Strange thing, I was able to register a system with my spacewalk server,
but 
I was not able to join any channels.  Until I created a channel manually

with that script.  Were you able to register a client with your
spacewalk 
server?
I don't remember the exact steps I took to be able to register and join
the 
channel, but I did have it working.  This time around, I should have
some 
better notes that I can share regarding the proceedure.  Hopefully I can
get 
it working again!  :-)

-Mike

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Wojtak, Greg
  To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
  Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 2:04 PM
  Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools


  It sounds like we are having the same problems.  I can't get a channel
  created - when I click on the Manage Entitlement Channels link it
takes
  me to the Overview page, so I had to use the python script to create
the
  channel manually.  Still no go, I can't get a client registered.  I
  asked about it on the Spacewalk list but haven't heard back about that
  particular issue.  How did you get a client registered?

  -----Original Message-----
  From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On
Behalf
  Of Michael ORourke
  Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:33 PM
  To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
  Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools

  Greg,

  You have any luck with Spacewalk?
  It is not an easy tool to install and configure, that's for sure..
  Also, the wiki docs seem a bit disorganized.  It took me several
  attempts to get it installed and working.  Then I had trouble with the
  channels.  Mainly adding clients to a channel.  I was finally able to
  add a client to a channel, populate it with a few RPMs, and push the
  RPMs to the client.  Also, I noticed that the rhnsd client daemon
wakes
  up every 240 minutes (default) and checks the spacewalk server for any
  actions.  I had initially thought that was 240 seconds.  So an "apply
  now" action could really be hours later.

  -Mike
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Wojtak, Greg
    To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
    Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:38 AM
    Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools


    Ah, the holy grail for CentOS/RHEL systems (aside from paying Red
Hat
    $13,000 a year for a satellite server!).

    I am looking for the same thing (and I'm sure any other Linux
Sysadmin
    is) for years.  I'm still using the strategy of "install updates on
  dev
    server, keep the rpm's that were downloaded, move them to test, then
    production, and pray to God that the same packages are in sync
across
    all environments."

    Not very efficient.  I've been looking into building a yum server
and
    configuring the yum-updatesd to download the packages that I roll
out.
    A little better than using cron, but not by much.

    I'd be interested to hear if you find anything.

    Greg Wojtak

    -----Original Message-----
    From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On
  Behalf
    Of Michael ORourke
    Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:29 AM
    To: MDLUG's main mailing list
    Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools

    Lug nuts,

    I'm looking for some recommendations, specifically for the CentOS
5.2
    distribution, for a centralized package management system or tools.
    I've
    spent some time doing vaious Google searches, but haven't found what
I
    was
    looking for aside from basic tools such as 'yum' and 'up2date',
which
    are
    designed to run on a single host.  I was hoping that I would stumble
    upon
    some existing tools that could be leveraged in an existing
  environment.
    What I would really like is:
    * Gui tools (browser based).
    * Internal centralized server (package repository).
    * Centralized management (for development, QA, & production).
    * Ability to schedule updates and manually push updates.
    * Auditing capabilities (which servers have what packages
installed).
    * Ability to manage servers by group (e.g. Dev App servers).

    Running 'yum -update' from cron on each server isn't a good
strategy,
    especially when it comes to production systems.  I would like to
have
    the
    capability to pull down patches to a centralized server, then push
the

    patches/updates to the development/QA environment, and finally out
to
    the
    production systems after testing is completed.
    Is that too much to ask for.  :-)
    Any suggestions/recommendations/ideas?

    Thanks,
    Mike

    _______________________________________________
    mdlug mailing list
    mdlug at mdlug.org
    http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
    _______________________________________________
    mdlug mailing list
    mdlug at mdlug.org
    http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
  ------



    No virus found in this incoming message.
    Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
    Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.12/1822 - Release Date:
  12/1/2008 8:23 AM
  _______________________________________________
  mdlug mailing list
  mdlug at mdlug.org
  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
  _______________________________________________
  mdlug mailing list
  mdlug at mdlug.org
  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


------------------------------------------------------------------------
------



  Internal Virus Database is out of date.
  Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
  Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.14/1829 - Release Date:
12/4/2008 
2:59 PM
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.14/1829 - Release Date:
12/4/2008 
2:59 PM 

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Thu Dec 11 14:31:10 2008
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 14:31:10 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools *update*
In-Reply-To: <E0D22DAEC3124E98A03D8C975B872EE5@AMD2000>
References: <268F49D5ADF245A0924E695327BE5CD8@AMD2000><8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06949009@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com><C7A15735B50F43DA850528AE694CA070@AMD2000><8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06949944@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com><00472CAFC72D4F9F939640A46EE2DEAA@AMD2000>
	<E0D22DAEC3124E98A03D8C975B872EE5@AMD2000>
Message-ID: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06ACC1F4@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

Same results - one thing I did notice in the logs was:

rhnException: ('Could not initialize Oracle database connection',
'exceptions.RuntimeError', 'Unable to acquire Oracle environment
handle')

RHN 14734 2008/12/11 14:26:56 -04:00: ("DATABASE CONNECTION TO 'xe'
LOST", "Exception information: 'NoneType' object has no attribute
'cursor'")

This is from /etc/rhn/satellite-httpd/logs/error_log

Are you seeing the same thing?

Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Michael ORourke
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 8:32 AM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion 
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools *update*

Okay...  here is what I did thus far.
1. Standard install, followed directions on the Wiki.
2. Created a new 'activation key' within Spacewalk GUI.
    Systems --> Activation Keys --> Create new key
    Using these values...
    Description: Default Key
    Key: <blank>
    Usage: <blank>
    Base Channels: Spacewalk Default
    Add-On Entitlements: <nothing checked>
    Universal Default: Checked
3. Created software channel using python script
    Example:
    create_channel.py --label "centos-5.2-i386" --name "CentOS 5.2 
32-bit" --summary "32-bit CentOS 5.2 channel"
4. Attempt to join a client to spacewalk (failed)
    Example:
    rhnreg_ks --verbose --force --activationkey="<default key created
with 
spacewalk GUI " --serverUrl http://myspacewalk.server.local/XMLRPC
5. Disabled firewall on spacewalk server.
6. Retry the join (failed)
7. Admin --> Spacewalk Configuration --> Restart (takes about 5 minutes
on 
our system)
8. Verify spacewalk is up and running, then retry join (Success!)

-Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Michael ORourke
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools


I'm currently doing a reinstall, and I plan on taking better notes this 
time.
Strange thing, I was able to register a system with my spacewalk server,
but 
I was not able to join any channels.  Until I created a channel manually

with that script.  Were you able to register a client with your
spacewalk 
server?
I don't remember the exact steps I took to be able to register and join
the 
channel, but I did have it working.  This time around, I should have
some 
better notes that I can share regarding the proceedure.  Hopefully I can
get 
it working again!  :-)

-Mike

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Wojtak, Greg
  To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
  Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 2:04 PM
  Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools


  It sounds like we are having the same problems.  I can't get a channel
  created - when I click on the Manage Entitlement Channels link it
takes
  me to the Overview page, so I had to use the python script to create
the
  channel manually.  Still no go, I can't get a client registered.  I
  asked about it on the Spacewalk list but haven't heard back about that
  particular issue.  How did you get a client registered?

  -----Original Message-----
  From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On
Behalf
  Of Michael ORourke
  Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:33 PM
  To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
  Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools

  Greg,

  You have any luck with Spacewalk?
  It is not an easy tool to install and configure, that's for sure..
  Also, the wiki docs seem a bit disorganized.  It took me several
  attempts to get it installed and working.  Then I had trouble with the
  channels.  Mainly adding clients to a channel.  I was finally able to
  add a client to a channel, populate it with a few RPMs, and push the
  RPMs to the client.  Also, I noticed that the rhnsd client daemon
wakes
  up every 240 minutes (default) and checks the spacewalk server for any
  actions.  I had initially thought that was 240 seconds.  So an "apply
  now" action could really be hours later.

  -Mike
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Wojtak, Greg
    To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
    Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:38 AM
    Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools


    Ah, the holy grail for CentOS/RHEL systems (aside from paying Red
Hat
    $13,000 a year for a satellite server!).

    I am looking for the same thing (and I'm sure any other Linux
Sysadmin
    is) for years.  I'm still using the strategy of "install updates on
  dev
    server, keep the rpm's that were downloaded, move them to test, then
    production, and pray to God that the same packages are in sync
across
    all environments."

    Not very efficient.  I've been looking into building a yum server
and
    configuring the yum-updatesd to download the packages that I roll
out.
    A little better than using cron, but not by much.

    I'd be interested to hear if you find anything.

    Greg Wojtak

    -----Original Message-----
    From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On
  Behalf
    Of Michael ORourke
    Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:29 AM
    To: MDLUG's main mailing list
    Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools

    Lug nuts,

    I'm looking for some recommendations, specifically for the CentOS
5.2
    distribution, for a centralized package management system or tools.
    I've
    spent some time doing vaious Google searches, but haven't found what
I
    was
    looking for aside from basic tools such as 'yum' and 'up2date',
which
    are
    designed to run on a single host.  I was hoping that I would stumble
    upon
    some existing tools that could be leveraged in an existing
  environment.
    What I would really like is:
    * Gui tools (browser based).
    * Internal centralized server (package repository).
    * Centralized management (for development, QA, & production).
    * Ability to schedule updates and manually push updates.
    * Auditing capabilities (which servers have what packages
installed).
    * Ability to manage servers by group (e.g. Dev App servers).

    Running 'yum -update' from cron on each server isn't a good
strategy,
    especially when it comes to production systems.  I would like to
have
    the
    capability to pull down patches to a centralized server, then push
the

    patches/updates to the development/QA environment, and finally out
to
    the
    production systems after testing is completed.
    Is that too much to ask for.  :-)
    Any suggestions/recommendations/ideas?

    Thanks,
    Mike

    _______________________________________________
    mdlug mailing list
    mdlug at mdlug.org
    http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
    _______________________________________________
    mdlug mailing list
    mdlug at mdlug.org
    http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


 
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  12/1/2008 8:23 AM
  _______________________________________________
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  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
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From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Thu Dec 11 14:43:52 2008
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 14:43:52 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools *update*
Message-ID: <9885011.1229024633192.JavaMail.root@elwamui-sweet.atl.sa.earthlink.net>


Nope... The last few errors I see from that log are as follows:
RHN 14388 2008/12/11 11:52:03 -04:00: ('Server not subscribed to any channels', 1000010000)
RHN 14386 2008/12/11 12:52:03 -04:00: ('Server not subscribed to any channels', 1000010000)
RHN 14393 2008/12/11 12:52:09 -04:00: ('Server not subscribed to any channels', 1000010000)
RHN 14781 2008/12/11 13:52:01 -04:00: ('Server not subscribed to any channels', 1000010000)


From tesral at comcast.net  Thu Dec 11 14:54:04 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 14:54:04 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] This Saturday
In-Reply-To: <493A04BF.9050208@comcast.net>
References: <493A04BF.9050208@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <49416FDC.1050005@comcast.net>

Do we have an Agenda?


And a repeat.

OK; by now most people know I am keeping a Distro Repository on my
laptop for club use.

I need your help. Keeping the beast current is an effort, and you can
help. If you download the latest update of your favorite distro, burn an
extra copy for me to rip. That takes less time than downloading the
sucker. Also if I have the various members looking out for their pet
distro I'm more likley to have the latest versions for club use.


-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From gib at juno.com  Thu Dec 11 15:49:43 2008
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 20:49:43 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  This Saturday - MDLUG and Free Geek
Message-ID: <20081211.154943.561.0@webmail20.vgs.untd.com>

 
I'm hoping a few folks from Free Geek come in. I'm going to encourage them to stop by the MDLUG meeting.  Perhaps we can talk about the Free Geek concept.
The Free Geek group has a meeting at 10:30 AM Saturday at the Unity Church listed on the web site:
http://MotorCityFreeGeek.com 
Unity Church
28660 Five Mile 
On the North side of Five Mile a bit West of Inkster road. 
Just West of the nursing home. 


-- Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:
Do we have an Agenda?


And a repeat.

OK; by now most people know I am keeping a Distro Repository on my
laptop for club use.

I need your help. Keeping the beast current is an effort, and you can
help. If you download the latest update of your favorite distro, burn an
extra copy for me to rip. That takes less time than downloading the
sucker. Also if I have the various members looking out for their pet
distro I'm more likley to have the latest versions for club use.


-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

____________________________________________________________
Click here to double your salary by becoming a medical transcriber.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/PnY6rbu1Va57e8z8HyU0dBytN6nJj1g8Ta9rRBXO4RBMH3XZODMPa/

From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 11 17:31:00 2008
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:31:00 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] This Saturday
In-Reply-To: <49416FDC.1050005@comcast.net>
References: <493A04BF.9050208@comcast.net> <49416FDC.1050005@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380812111431h1cceb9ftda10ce84a56e26f@mail.gmail.com>

--- Garry Stahl wrote:

> OK; by now most people know I am keeping a Distro Repository on my
> laptop for club use.  I need your help. Keeping the beast current is an
> effort, and you can help. If you download the latest update of your
> favorite distro, burn an extra copy for me to rip.

I'll do better than that.  I plan on coming this week with my external
HD with ALL my ISOs on it.  If I make it you can copy what you need.
Name what you need now and I'll try to D/L it by Saturday if I don't
have it already

~~ Michael Rudas
    My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
    My blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com


From gib at juno.com  Thu Dec 11 20:46:02 2008
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 01:46:02 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  This Saturday
Message-ID: <20081211.204602.8768.0@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>


The most recent stable Ubuntu desktop.

-- "Michael Rudas" <audiotech50 at gmail.com> wrote:
--- Garry Stahl wrote:

> OK; by now most people know I am keeping a Distro Repository on my
> laptop for club use.  I need your help. Keeping the beast current is an
> effort, and you can help. If you download the latest update of your
> favorite distro, burn an extra copy for me to rip.

I'll do better than that.  I plan on coming this week with my external
HD with ALL my ISOs on it.  If I make it you can copy what you need.
Name what you need now and I'll try to D/L it by Saturday if I don't
have it already

~~ Michael Rudas
    My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
    My blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


____________________________________________________________
Get the Best Credit Offers - Apply Now!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/PnY6rbuoOzdobDrNqfRF4I5GOlAgljNyDADFF4VdYzoM4RREE8Fda/


From mdlug at wowway.com  Thu Dec 11 23:23:57 2008
From: mdlug at wowway.com (mdlug at wowway.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 22:23:57 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] sound card recommendation?
Message-ID: <20081212042143.M78065@wowway.com>

Hello, I'm looking for a sound card that above all, will be easy to install. 
 Nothing fancy, 2 speakers will do.  

And that's it really.   Thanks, Dean



From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 11 23:38:06 2008
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 23:38:06 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] The 40-year-old mouse
Message-ID: <b67fb0380812112038p5cb0663ewac29a69f0180bd12@mail.gmail.com>

"Celebrating the man who invented the mouse"
<http://www.physorg.com/news148238990.html>

Here's the video of that original ground-breaking event in two formats:
"Douglas Engelbart: The Mother of All Demos (long version)"
<http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8734787622017763097>

"Douglas Engelbart : The Mother of All Demos (1/9)"
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfIgzSoTMOs>

~~ Michael Rudas
    My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
    My blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 11 23:49:08 2008
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 23:49:08 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] sound card recommendation?
In-Reply-To: <20081212042143.M78065@wowway.com>
References: <20081212042143.M78065@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380812112049g77e935ddoa38bd63272fe7240@mail.gmail.com>

--- Dean wrote:

> Hello, I'm looking for a sound card that above all, will be easy to install.

Good soundcards that are easy to install include Creative Labs'
"SoundBlaster Live!" and the Ensoniq-based "SoundBlaster PCI" series
-- they are well-supported under Linux -- you can find good ones used
for as little as $5-10.  They have an advantage over other cheap sound
cards in that they actually have sound processing chips -- most cheap
cards and on-board sound processors use AC '97 codecs that use too
much CPU processing power.  While that's less of an issue now than it
used to be, I still HATE to use CPU cycles for things that are best
off-loaded to dedicated chips...

~~ Michael Rudas
    My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
    My blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Fri Dec 12 09:30:21 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 09:30:21 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] sound card recommendation?
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380812112049g77e935ddoa38bd63272fe7240@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20081212042143.M78065@wowway.com>
	<b67fb0380812112049g77e935ddoa38bd63272fe7240@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B256@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Michael Rudas

> --- Dean wrote:
> > Hello, I'm looking for a sound card that above all, will be easy to
> install.
> 
> Good soundcards that are easy to install include Creative Labs'
> "SoundBlaster Live!" and the Ensoniq-based "SoundBlaster PCI" series
> -- they are well-supported under Linux -- you can find good ones used
> for as little as $5-10.  They have an advantage over other cheap sound
> cards in that they actually have sound processing chips

 The SB Live boards have another nice feature - they support 'hardware
mixing' (or 'multi-open'). That is to say, they have hardware support
for taking multiple sound signals at the same time, and playing them all
at once. This allows multiple programs to play sounds at the same time.

 That's really the only area I can think of where Windows is better off
than Linux, for now. Windows has a sound API that handles mixing sounds
from multiple apps 'behind the scenes'. If the card does it in hardware,
Windows uses that; if not, Windows does it in software.

 Linux *can* do that... but unfortunately, there are multiple sound APIs
which deal with this in slightly different ways. :-/ ALSA and PulseAudio
mostly work together, but each has their own way of emulating OSS,
and...

 If the card can do hardware mixing, though, all the different sound
APIs can think they have the card all to themselves, and not fight over
who's writing to the card at any given moment. Linux sound will settle
down eventually, but it's taking longer than I'd hoped.

Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                          (313) 227-2317

 "If one is going to use standard units, one should do it right and
               use Kelvins. That way nobody is happy."
           - Linux Weekly News, on Fahrenheit vs. Celsius
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From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Fri Dec 12 10:17:24 2008
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 10:17:24 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] This Saturday
In-Reply-To: <49416FDC.1050005@comcast.net>
References: <493A04BF.9050208@comcast.net> <49416FDC.1050005@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <8aa4d8e50812120717m8498a2bi24762d45a0fde7b2@mail.gmail.com>

Just so everyone knows, openSuSE 11.1 is going to be released next week.

As per last time, KDE4 still is *NOT* ready for every day use (despite whatever
handwaving and other idiotic, self-contradicting claims are coming out of
Aaron Seigo's team... expect more back-pedalling as usual by these....
eh... proper descriptive words are not suitable for this list)

In any event, look for KDE3 (the KDE4-obsessed SuSE team is probably
going to put KDE3 in "other" :-/ )


On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 2:54 PM, Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:
> Do we have an Agenda?
>
>
> And a repeat.
>
> OK; by now most people know I am keeping a Distro Repository on my
> laptop for club use.
>
> I need your help. Keeping the beast current is an effort, and you can
> help. If you download the latest update of your favorite distro, burn an
> extra copy for me to rip. That takes less time than downloading the
> sucker. Also if I have the various members looking out for their pet
> distro I'm more likley to have the latest versions for club use.
>
>
> --
> Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.
>
> Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
> Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
> The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
> Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Fri Dec 12 10:28:08 2008
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 09:28:08 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] This Saturday - MDLUG and Free Geek
In-Reply-To: <20081211.154943.561.0@webmail20.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20081211.154943.561.0@webmail20.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <4145b6790812120728u6442b648yb57dd320e6a9b87@mail.gmail.com>

Is the MotorCityFreeGeek part of the FreeGeek family?  I ask because I
don't see the MCFG listed on the FreeGeek family page nor on
wikipedia:

http://www.freegeek.org/family.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Geek#Locations

Regards,
- Robert

On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 2:49 PM, gib at juno.com <gib at juno.com> wrote:
>
> I'm hoping a few folks from Free Geek come in. I'm going to encourage them to stop by the MDLUG meeting.  Perhaps we can talk about the Free Geek concept.
> The Free Geek group has a meeting at 10:30 AM Saturday at the Unity Church listed on the web site:
> http://MotorCityFreeGeek.com
> Unity Church
> 28660 Five Mile
> On the North side of Five Mile a bit West of Inkster road.
> Just West of the nursing home.
>
>
> -- Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:
> Do we have an Agenda?
>
>
> And a repeat.
>
> OK; by now most people know I am keeping a Distro Repository on my
> laptop for club use.
>
> I need your help. Keeping the beast current is an effort, and you can
> help. If you download the latest update of your favorite distro, burn an
> extra copy for me to rip. That takes less time than downloading the
> sucker. Also if I have the various members looking out for their pet
> distro I'm more likley to have the latest versions for club use.
>
>
> --
> Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.
>
> Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
> Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
> The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
> Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Click here to double your salary by becoming a medical transcriber.
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/PnY6rbu1Va57e8z8HyU0dBytN6nJj1g8Ta9rRBXO4RBMH3XZODMPa/
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 12 10:33:25 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 07:33:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] This Saturday
References: <493A04BF.9050208@comcast.net> <49416FDC.1050005@comcast.net>
	<8aa4d8e50812120717m8498a2bi24762d45a0fde7b2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <778812.37542.qm@web37902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I have not read up on it. are there any big ticket items on OpenSUSE 11.1?

David C. Lane 




________________________________
From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 10:17:24 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] This Saturday

Just so everyone knows, openSuSE 11.1 is going to be released next week.

As per last time, KDE4 still is *NOT* ready for every day use (despite whatever
handwaving and other idiotic, self-contradicting claims are coming out of
Aaron Seigo's team... expect more back-pedalling as usual by these....
eh... proper descriptive words are not suitable for this list)

In any event, look for KDE3 (the KDE4-obsessed SuSE team is probably
going to put KDE3 in "other" :-/ )


On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 2:54 PM, Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:
> Do we have an Agenda?
>
>
> And a repeat.
>
> OK; by now most people know I am keeping a Distro Repository on my
> laptop for club use.
>
> I need your help. Keeping the beast current is an effort, and you can
> help. If you download the latest update of your favorite distro, burn an
> extra copy for me to rip. That takes less time than downloading the
> sucker. Also if I have the various members looking out for their pet
> distro I'm more likley to have the latest versions for club use.
>
>
> --
> Garry? AKA? --Phoenix--? Rising above the Flames.
>
> Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
> Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
> The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
> Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      

From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Fri Dec 12 13:47:35 2008
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:47:35 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] This Saturday
In-Reply-To: <778812.37542.qm@web37902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <493A04BF.9050208@comcast.net> <49416FDC.1050005@comcast.net>
	<8aa4d8e50812120717m8498a2bi24762d45a0fde7b2@mail.gmail.com>
	<778812.37542.qm@web37902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8aa4d8e50812121047n36935680q4aab161cc509b17f@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 10:33 AM, David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I have not read up on it. are there any big ticket items on OpenSUSE 11.1?
>


http://www.opensuse.org/


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 12 15:05:35 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:05:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] This Saturday
References: <493A04BF.9050208@comcast.net> <49416FDC.1050005@comcast.net>
	<8aa4d8e50812120717m8498a2bi24762d45a0fde7b2@mail.gmail.com>
	<778812.37542.qm@web37902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<8aa4d8e50812121047n36935680q4aab161cc509b17f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <292154.39887.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I have 11.0.? when I upgraded the prev. install was wiped out. I'm waiting for 11.2. 

Now if someone knows the SUSEFirewall2, I would love to learn how to set that up for my home network.



David C. Lane 




________________________________
From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 1:47:35 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] This Saturday

On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 10:33 AM, David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I have not read up on it. are there any big ticket items on OpenSUSE 11.1?
>


http://www.opensuse.org/
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      

From gib at juno.com  Fri Dec 12 16:49:33 2008
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 21:49:33 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] This Saturday - MDLUG and Free Geek
Message-ID: <20081212.164933.22449.1@webmail16.vgs.untd.com>


Our intention is to be apart of the FreeGeek family.  We have not announced our intent yet.

-- "Robert Citek" <robert.citek at gmail.com> wrote:
Is the MotorCityFreeGeek part of the FreeGeek family?  I ask because I
don't see the MCFG listed on the FreeGeek family page nor on
wikipedia:

http://www.freegeek.org/family.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Geek#Locations

Regards,
- Robert

On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 2:49 PM, gib at juno.com <gib at juno.com> wrote:
>
> I'm hoping a few folks from Free Geek come in. I'm going to encourage them to stop by the MDLUG meeting.  Perhaps we can talk about the Free Geek concept.
> The Free Geek group has a meeting at 10:30 AM Saturday at the Unity Church listed on the web site:
> http://MotorCityFreeGeek.com
> Unity Church
> 28660 Five Mile
> On the North side of Five Mile a bit West of Inkster road.
> Just West of the nursing home.
>
>
> -- Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:
> Do we have an Agenda?
>
>
> And a repeat.
>
> OK; by now most people know I am keeping a Distro Repository on my
> laptop for club use.
>
> I need your help. Keeping the beast current is an effort, and you can
> help. If you download the latest update of your favorite distro, burn an
> extra copy for me to rip. That takes less time than downloading the
> sucker. Also if I have the various members looking out for their pet
> distro I'm more likley to have the latest versions for club use.
>
>
> --
> Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.
>
> Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
> Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
> The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
> Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Click here to double your salary by becoming a medical transcriber.
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/PnY6rbu1Va57e8z8HyU0dBytN6nJj1g8Ta9rRBXO4RBMH3XZODMPa/
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
_______________________________________________
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From gib at juno.com  Fri Dec 12 16:52:36 2008
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 21:52:36 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  sound card recommendation?
Message-ID: <20081212.165236.22449.2@webmail16.vgs.untd.com>


I have to suggest that I could not get Windows to handle both my microphone and guitar input at the same time.  Linux did it fine.  

-- "Ingles, Raymond" <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:
> From: Michael Rudas

> --- Dean wrote:
> > Hello, I'm looking for a sound card that above all, will be easy to
> install.
> 
> Good soundcards that are easy to install include Creative Labs'
> "SoundBlaster Live!" and the Ensoniq-based "SoundBlaster PCI" series
> -- they are well-supported under Linux -- you can find good ones used
> for as little as $5-10.  They have an advantage over other cheap sound
> cards in that they actually have sound processing chips

 The SB Live boards have another nice feature - they support 'hardware
mixing' (or 'multi-open'). That is to say, they have hardware support
for taking multiple sound signals at the same time, and playing them all
at once. This allows multiple programs to play sounds at the same time.

 That's really the only area I can think of where Windows is better off
than Linux, for now. Windows has a sound API that handles mixing sounds
from multiple apps 'behind the scenes'. If the card does it in hardware,
Windows uses that; if not, Windows does it in software.

 Linux *can* do that... but unfortunately, there are multiple sound APIs
which deal with this in slightly different ways. :-/ ALSA and PulseAudio
mostly work together, but each has their own way of emulating OSS,
and...

 If the card can do hardware mixing, though, all the different sound
APIs can think they have the card all to themselves, and not fight over
who's writing to the card at any given moment. Linux sound will settle
down eventually, but it's taking longer than I'd hoped.

Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                          (313) 227-2317

 "If one is going to use standard units, one should do it right and
               use Kelvins. That way nobody is happy."
           - Linux Weekly News, on Fahrenheit vs. Celsius
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.
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From driveray at ameritech.net  Fri Dec 12 17:17:33 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 17:17:33 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] This Saturday - MDLUG and Free Geek
In-Reply-To: <20081212.164933.22449.1@webmail16.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20081212.164933.22449.1@webmail16.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <4942E2FD.9020802@ameritech.net>

gib at juno.com wrote:
> Our intention is to be apart of the FreeGeek family.  We have not announced our intent yet.

I think you mean "... a part of ..." not "apart [from] ... " :-)


> -- "Robert Citek" <robert.citek at gmail.com> wrote:
> Is the MotorCityFreeGeek part of the FreeGeek family?  I ask because I
> don't see the MCFG listed on the FreeGeek family page nor on
> wikipedia:
> 
> http://www.freegeek.org/family.php
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Geek#Locations
> 
> Regards,
> - Robert
> 


From gib at juno.com  Sat Dec 13 08:31:48 2008
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 13:31:48 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] This Saturday - MDLUG and Free Geek
Message-ID: <20081213.083148.16469.0@webmail14.vgs.untd.com>


Yes, thank you.  I meant we intend to be a part of the Free Geek family.  Interesting how a typo, space (nothing really) can change the meaning.

-- Raymond McLaughlin <driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
gib at juno.com wrote:
> Our intention is to be apart of the FreeGeek family.  We have not announced our intent yet.

I think you mean "... a part of ..." not "apart [from] ... " :-)


> -- "Robert Citek" <robert.citek at gmail.com> wrote:
> Is the MotorCityFreeGeek part of the FreeGeek family?  I ask because I
> don't see the MCFG listed on the FreeGeek family page nor on
> wikipedia:
> 
> http://www.freegeek.org/family.php
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Geek#Locations
> 
> Regards,
> - Robert
> 
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


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From fulner at gmail.com  Sat Dec 13 11:10:11 2008
From: fulner at gmail.com (Robert Jim Fulner)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 11:10:11 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Problems with upgrade?
Message-ID: <c768576f0812130810v150d14d8ifd7bec3cea842b8f@mail.gmail.com>

Befor going to bed last night I set my pc to do an upgrade from
xubuntu 8.07 lts to 8.10. When I woke up this morning my screen was
dead. I can't wake it up, and turning off and on the monitor did
nothing. Would it be safe in this situation to hard boot the system or
is there a better alternative.

Jim

-- 
Sent from my mobile device


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sat Dec 13 12:08:56 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 12:08:56 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Problems with upgrade?
In-Reply-To: <c768576f0812130810v150d14d8ifd7bec3cea842b8f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c768576f0812130810v150d14d8ifd7bec3cea842b8f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90812130908tbcbd5f0r6face49d3cec29e1@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Robert Jim Fulner <fulner at gmail.com> wrote:
> Befor going to bed last night I set my pc to do an upgrade from
> xubuntu 8.07 lts to 8.10. When I woke up this morning my screen was
> dead. I can't wake it up, and turning off and on the monitor did
> nothing. Would it be safe in this situation to hard boot the system or
> is there a better alternative.

Best solution is to SSH in  from an other system and see what is
happening.  Next option is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 13 18:45:48 2008
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 18:45:48 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Problems with upgrade?
In-Reply-To: <c768576f0812130810v150d14d8ifd7bec3cea842b8f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c768576f0812130810v150d14d8ifd7bec3cea842b8f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380812131545t4fd03b5sce58f718a7f7ef18@mail.gmail.com>

--- Robert Jim Fulner wrote:

> Before going to bed last night I set my PC to do an upgrade from
> xubuntu 8.07 lts to 8.10. When I woke up this morning my screen was
> dead. I can't wake it up, and turning off and on the monitor did
> nothing. Would it be safe in this situation to hard boot the system or
> is there a better alternative?

It's EXTREMELY likely that your upgrade caused your video output to
switch to a signal that's out-of-band for your LCD monitor.  If you
still have a CRT monitor around, plug it in in place of your LCD and
switch the resolution and vertical scan rate to one that's compatible
with your current monitor.

~~ Michael Rudas
    My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
    My blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 13 19:55:10 2008
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 19:55:10 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Windows humor (plus)
Message-ID: <b67fb0380812131655n3ebecba2u4baec3736f313d8@mail.gmail.com>

Based on a request at today's meeting, I'm reposting links to a couple
of VERY funny Windows-related videos:

"The Matrix Runs On Windows -- Take the red pill. Get the blue screen."
<http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1886349>
"I hope you have cookies enabled." LOL

"Vista Sucks"
<http://blip.tv/file/340692>

Here's a couple that are NOT computer-related, but VERY amusing:

"Almost Transformers -- Whitegoods In Disguise"
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ma_Cwh9VW1E>

"Solid Potato Salad - The Ross Sisters"
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DJVSP3N5a4>
At about 60 seconds in, things get VERY strange...

~~ Michael Rudas
    My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
    My blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com


From fulner at gmail.com  Sun Dec 14 14:29:40 2008
From: fulner at gmail.com (Robert Jim Fulner)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 14:29:40 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Problems with upgrade?
Message-ID: <c768576f0812141129i3eedee88q2bc2981274fe455d@mail.gmail.com>

Of course, you assumed I had an LCD. Those cost $ so I don't have one. Every
component of my machine is at least 10 years old. Which is the real reason I
run Linux, and Xubuntu specifically. (I actually prefer the look feel, and
functionality of Mandriva, but XFCE is designed to be less intensive).

Anyway, when I told it to upgrade I never put in my password, so it never
started, and apparently it just gave up, when I rebooted everything was fine
and I had a note that the upgrade hadn't started.

I've always been hesitant about upgrades, you know the old "If it ain't
broke don't fix it." But all the forums I read say with Linux its incredibly
important  to stay as up to date as possible.

Jim

P.S. It was nice meeting many of you all yesterday.


From mdlug at wowway.com  Sun Dec 14 20:35:30 2008
From: mdlug at wowway.com (mdlug at wowway.com)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 19:35:30 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] wanted to buy - sound card
Message-ID: <20081215013302.M94296@wowway.com>


Hello, if anyone has a sound card that they are pretty sure works with Linux,
and they would be willing to sell it, if it is a basic or entry level, I will
buy it.   Mean, I don't need anything special.  I don't want to have to fight
with it though.    I spent time trying to get the built-in audio on a
"Winfast" mobo to work, and I don't think it's possible.  

Thanks, Dean

--
WOW! Homepage (http://www.wowway.com)



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Sun Dec 14 21:37:52 2008
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 21:37:52 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] wanted to buy - sound card
In-Reply-To: <20081215013302.M94296@wowway.com>
References: <20081215013302.M94296@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <4945C300.9040308@gmail.com>

mdlug at wowway.com wrote:
> Hello, if anyone has a sound card that they are pretty sure works with Linux,
> and they would be willing to sell it, if it is a basic or entry level, I will
> buy it.   Mean, I don't need anything special.  I don't want to have to fight
> with it though.    I spent time trying to get the built-in audio on a
> "Winfast" mobo to work, and I don't think it's possible.  
>

I might have a PCI sound card around.


From tony at bemushosting.com  Mon Dec 15 08:14:16 2008
From: tony at bemushosting.com (Tony Bemus)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 08:14:16 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] 486 processor
In-Reply-To: <4945C300.9040308@gmail.com>
References: <20081215013302.M94296@wowway.com>  <4945C300.9040308@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1229346856.23256.2.camel@bemus-tony>

At the meeting yesterday someone mentioned that they knew someone that
needed a 486 processor.

I just found one and it is free for who needs it.

Intel A80486SX-25 is the exact model that is printed on the processor.

-  
Tony Bemus




From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Mon Dec 15 09:16:04 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 09:16:04 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] sound card recommendation?
In-Reply-To: <20081212.165236.22449.2@webmail16.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20081212.165236.22449.2@webmail16.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B258@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: gib at juno.com

> I have to suggest that I could not get Windows to handle both my
> microphone and guitar input at the same time.  Linux did it fine.

 It's not that Linux has *bad* sound APIs. Linux just has *too many*
sound APIs that don't always play well together. At the very least,
you've got ALSA, PulseAudio, and JACK. Lots of apps that have been
around a while use older APIs, like OSS or ESD or aRTs or...

 Here's an article that talks about many of the APIs and their intended
usage:

 http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/guide-to-sound-apis.html

 This will settle down eventually, but I think we've got a couple more
years of pain to get through.

Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                         (313) 227-2317

  Republicans... preach our sacred duty to the army's morale and
  simultaneously cancel $15 billion in veteran's benefits and 60
 percent of federal education subsidies for servicemen's children.
      If you can't believe that, look it up. - Hal Crowther
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Mon Dec 15 09:22:00 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 09:22:00 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] wanted to buy - sound card
In-Reply-To: <20081215013302.M94296@wowway.com>
References: <20081215013302.M94296@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B259@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: mdlug at wowway.com

> Hello, if anyone has a sound card that they are pretty sure works with
> Linux, and they would be willing to sell it, if it is a basic or entry
> level, I will buy it.

 Like Aaron, I'll check tonight. I'm pretty sure I've got a couple basic
PCI sound cards laying around. You can have 'em for free.

Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                 (313) 227-2317

  "A troll is someone who, finding that no-one likes them,
  decides to pretend that it's on purpose." - Paul Crowley
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Mon Dec 15 10:22:59 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 10:22:59 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP vs Toshiba
Message-ID: <20081215102259.16d9caa4@Nokia-N800-23-14>

Good Morning All,
    I have a real dilema now that prices are coming down, apparently
quite a bit. I could replace the 17" Toshiba Satellite I just got last
year with a comparable 17" HP notebook for about 2/3 of what I paid last
year. The user has never really liked the Toshiba and neither have I. I
would most likely sell the Toshiba if I did buy the HP. I would be
moving to an AMD processor from an Intel but other than that pretty
much vanilla from what I've seen so far. Given that HP typically is
much friendlier to Linux than Toshiba I'm thinking this might be a good
move. Anybody have any thoughts on this? Any particular things I need
to steer clear of?

Best Regards,
-- 
?Peter The Plumber sm on the road

Sent from a mobile Internet Tablet


From muteid10t at gmail.com  Mon Dec 15 11:07:38 2008
From: muteid10t at gmail.com (Ron Blanchett)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 11:07:38 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP vs Toshiba
In-Reply-To: <20081215102259.16d9caa4@Nokia-N800-23-14>
References: <20081215102259.16d9caa4@Nokia-N800-23-14>
Message-ID: <52995d720812150807h7d355c35hc7e9ce47f3a2bd74@mail.gmail.com>

The only thing I would steer clear of is the Toshiba.


On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 10:22 AM, Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>wrote:

> Good Morning All,
>    I have a real dilema now that prices are coming down, apparently
> quite a bit. I could replace the 17" Toshiba Satellite I just got last
> year with a comparable 17" HP notebook for about 2/3 of what I paid last
> year. The user has never really liked the Toshiba and neither have I. I
> would most likely sell the Toshiba if I did buy the HP. I would be
> moving to an AMD processor from an Intel but other than that pretty
> much vanilla from what I've seen so far. Given that HP typically is
> much friendlier to Linux than Toshiba I'm thinking this might be a good
> move. Anybody have any thoughts on this? Any particular things I need
> to steer clear of?
>
> Best Regards,
> --
> ?Peter The Plumber sm on the road
>
> Sent from a mobile Internet Tablet
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




-- 

Bob Hope  - "I don't feel old. I don't feel anything till noon. That's when
it's time for my nap."

From peter at petertheplumber.net  Mon Dec 15 11:30:31 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 11:30:31 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP vs Toshiba
In-Reply-To: <52995d720812150807h7d355c35hc7e9ce47f3a2bd74@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20081215102259.16d9caa4@Nokia-N800-23-14>
	<52995d720812150807h7d355c35hc7e9ce47f3a2bd74@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20081215113031.4caead84@Nokia-N800-23-14>

On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 11:07:38 -0500
"Ron Blanchett" <muteid10t at gmail.com> wrote:

> The only thing I would steer clear of is the Toshiba.
> 

    For someone of my limited expertise, I would have to agree. There
are some fans of Toshiba that have Linux working well but not I. Which
is why I'm seriously thinking about biting the bullet. I have the
recovery discs, original box etc for the Toshiba, so I can restore it to
original as shipped condition and get rid of it.

Best Regards,

-- 
?Peter The Plumber sm on the road
Sent from a mobile Internet Tablet


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Mon Dec 15 11:38:54 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 11:38:54 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP printer working well
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B25B@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

I like that HP specifically makes Linux drivers available for most of
their printers and updates them. My parents old printer died, and
looking at circular deals, I had them pick up an HP C5580; the printer
itself worked out of the box, my father (who's not a computer type) had
no trouble. The scanner didn't work at first (they're running an older
Ubuntu) but I was able to download and install the latest HP Linux
drivers and it was quite straightforward.

 Just offering a datapoint.

Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                             (313) 227-2317

 "As it stands now, for the vast majority of the populace, selecting a
 leader is like deciding which dishwasher detergent to purchase at the
 grocery store. You have a couple of brands with big, flashy, colorful
      boxes, that smell the same, look the same, and are probably
           manufactured by the same company." - Dan J. Rempe
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 15 11:49:02 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 08:49:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] HP printer working well
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B25B@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <543824.5833.qm@web37907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Yes, I had lots of problems with other printers.? 

Yet there were 2 successes that I Experenced.

1.? Suse 7.0 a few years ago.? I loaded Suse 7.0 on an older IBM I was working on a project and I added a networked printer Xerox and it worked I just put in a like model because that one printer was not on the list.

2. I had Suse 10.3 and needed to print.? The Canon and lexmark printers that I had did not work.? So there was this HP DJ1415? At Big Lots. It worked great. 

I even saw an HP tool for Linux.? 

I just wish it was that easy for WiFi Cards.

David C. Lane 



________________________________
From: "Ingles, Raymond" <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com>
To: mdlug at mdlug.org
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 11:38:54 AM
Subject: [mdlug] HP printer working well

I like that HP specifically makes Linux drivers available for most of
their printers and updates them. My parents old printer died, and
looking at circular deals, I had them pick up an HP C5580; the printer
itself worked out of the box, my father (who's not a computer type) had
no trouble. The scanner didn't work at first (they're running an older
Ubuntu) but I was able to download and install the latest HP Linux
drivers and it was quite straightforward.

Just offering a datapoint.

Sincerely,

Ray Ingles? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? (313) 227-2317

"As it stands now, for the vast majority of the populace, selecting a
leader is like deciding which dishwasher detergent to purchase at the
grocery store. You have a couple of brands with big, flashy, colorful
? ? ? boxes, that smell the same, look the same, and are probably
? ? ? ? ? manufactured by the same company." - Dan J. Rempe
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      

From tesral at comcast.net  Mon Dec 15 11:50:32 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 11:50:32 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP vs Toshiba
In-Reply-To: <20081215102259.16d9caa4@Nokia-N800-23-14>
References: <20081215102259.16d9caa4@Nokia-N800-23-14>
Message-ID: <49468AD8.6030002@comcast.net>

Peter Bart wrote:
> Anybody have any thoughts on this? Any particular things I need
> to steer clear of?
>
> Best Regards,
>   

If it works, why fix it?  Unless the HP is a considerable horse power
improvement, why?  Is the Toshiba working?  Does it do the task?

What are you getting for you money other than a change in brand?

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From peter at petertheplumber.net  Mon Dec 15 11:57:52 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 11:57:52 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP printer working well
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B25B@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B25B@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <20081215115752.3a07cb22@Nokia-N800-23-14>

On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 11:38:54 -0500
"Ingles, Raymond" <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:

> I like that HP specifically makes Linux drivers available for most of
> their printers and updates them. My parents old printer died, and
> looking at circular deals, I had them pick up an HP C5580; the printer
> itself worked out of the box, my father (who's not a computer type)
> had no trouble. The scanner didn't work at first (they're running an
> older Ubuntu) but I was able to download and install the latest HP
> Linux drivers and it was quite straightforward.
> 
>  Just offering a datapoint.
> 
	
	Thanks Ray, I wish I had gone with the HP last year. My
hindsight is great but at least I know now. 

Best Regards,
 
-- 
___Peter The Plumber sm on the road

Sent from a mobile Internet Tablet


From driveray at ameritech.net  Mon Dec 15 12:19:37 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 12:19:37 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP printer working well
In-Reply-To: <20081215115752.3a07cb22@Nokia-N800-23-14>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B25B@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<20081215115752.3a07cb22@Nokia-N800-23-14>
Message-ID: <494691A9.6070900@ameritech.net>

Peter Bart wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 11:38:54 -0500
> "Ingles, Raymond" <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:
> 
>> I like that HP specifically makes Linux drivers available for most of
>> their printers and updates them. My parents old printer died, and
>> looking at circular deals, I had them pick up an HP C5580; the printer
>> itself worked out of the box, my father (who's not a computer type)
>> had no trouble. The scanner didn't work at first (they're running an
>> older Ubuntu) but I was able to download and install the latest HP
>> Linux drivers and it was quite straightforward.
>>
>>  Just offering a datapoint.
>>
> 	
> 	Thanks Ray, I wish I had gone with the HP last year. My
> hindsight is great but at least I know now. 
> 
> Best Regards,
>  

Last year I did go with an HP DV9000 series laptop. Everything but the 
Ricoh card reader work perfectly, until about 2 weeks after the the one 
year warranty expired. Then the NVidia video failed. I can boot to 
command line, but even there the text characters look "worm eaten" and 
sketchy. Most of the time X will not start, the error is:"could not 
initialize NVidia /dev/nvidia0" (or words very much like that.) Even the 
HP logo at the first power up splash, and the bois screens look "off".

I'm looking to get a second opinion, but I think I'll need to replace 
the motherboard. :(

Other than that, it worked great!

Raymond McLaughlin


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Mon Dec 15 12:53:48 2008
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 12:53:48 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP printer working well
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B25B@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B25B@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <494699AC.1030402@gmail.com>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
> I like that HP specifically makes Linux drivers available for most of
> their printers and updates them. My parents old printer died, and
> looking at circular deals, I had them pick up an HP C5580; the printer
> itself worked out of the box, my father (who's not a computer type) had
> no trouble. The scanner didn't work at first (they're running an older
> Ubuntu) but I was able to download and install the latest HP Linux
> drivers and it was quite straightforward.
> 
>  Just offering a datapoint.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 

I can also recommend Brother as having good Linux support
on the Company website.  I've also been happy with Epson,
even though they don't explicitly support Linux, they do
release their specs so that programmers can write proper
software.

In contrast, avoid Canon.  You'll be lucky to use any of
their equipment past 720x720dpi, and CcMmYK is out of the
question, as Canon's printer division thinks that they're
in the driver software business, not the printer business.

This is sad, because I've been using Canon photographic
equipment for close to 20 years.


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Mon Dec 15 14:19:53 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 14:19:53 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP vs Toshiba
In-Reply-To: <49468AD8.6030002@comcast.net>
References: <20081215102259.16d9caa4@Nokia-N800-23-14>
	<49468AD8.6030002@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20081215141953.0626e787@Nokia-N800-23-14>

On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 11:50:32 -0500
Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:

> Peter Bart wrote:
> > Anybody have any thoughts on this? Any particular things I need
> > to steer clear of?
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >   
> 
> If it works, why fix it?

	Because it doesn't fit the way the user uses it. The volume
thumb wheel is constantly inadvertently getting bumped and the touchpad
has allways been very touchy for ex.

>  Unless the HP is a considerable horse power
> improvement, why?  Is the Toshiba working?

    Not the way I feel it should. Suspend/resume have never worked, and
Toshiba does not seem very Linux friendly for ex. 

>  Does it do the task?

 No
> 
> What are you getting for you money other than a change in brand?
> 

    A larger community of Linux users from which to draw on for those
unavoidable problem areas. The Toshiba Linux community is almost non
existant. What is there is almost exclusively in another language.

Best Regards,
-- 
___Peter The Plumber sm on the road
State Licensed Master Plumber
State Certified Backflow Device Tester
Factory Trained Boiler Install/Service
NIOSH/OSHA/MIOSHA Trained Confined Space Entry

<http://petertheplumber.net>
24h Service 313.215.5175

Sent from a mobile Internet Tablet


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Mon Dec 15 14:28:42 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 14:28:42 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP printer working well
In-Reply-To: <494691A9.6070900@ameritech.net>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B25B@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<20081215115752.3a07cb22@Nokia-N800-23-14>
	<494691A9.6070900@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <20081215142842.40b3183b@Nokia-N800-23-14>

On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 12:19:37 -0500
Raymond McLaughlin <driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:

> Peter Bart wrote:
> > On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 11:38:54 -0500
> > "Ingles, Raymond" <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:
<snip>
> Last year I did go with an HP DV9000 series laptop. Everything but
> the Ricoh card reader work perfectly, until about 2 weeks after the
> the one year warranty expired. Then the NVidia video failed. I can
> boot to command line, but even there the text characters look "worm
> eaten" and sketchy. Most of the time X will not start, the error
> is:"could not initialize NVidia /dev/nvidia0" (or words very much
> like that.) Even the HP logo at the first power up splash, and the
> bois screens look "off".
> 
> I'm looking to get a second opinion, but I think I'll need to replace 
> the motherboard. :(

	That's a real bummer, maybe HP will stretch the warranty? That
would mean calling their customer diservice dept, I have my own horror
stories there. I was looking at a similar model last year but picked the
Toshiba. I'll have to look closely at the extended warranty if I do
switch.

Best Regards,
-- 
___Peter The Plumber sm on the road

Sent from a mobile Internet Tablet


From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Mon Dec 15 14:51:59 2008
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 14:51:59 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools *update*
References: <268F49D5ADF245A0924E695327BE5CD8@AMD2000><8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06949009@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com><C7A15735B50F43DA850528AE694CA070@AMD2000><8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06949944@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com><00472CAFC72D4F9F939640A46EE2DEAA@AMD2000><E0D22DAEC3124E98A03D8C975B872EE5@AMD2000>
	<8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06ACC1F4@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
Message-ID: <BB2C163C6A5A445CA3124D4C82E66883@AMD2000>

Greg,

Any success yet?  

I did notice something in the docs... they suggested creating an activation key and assign it to a base channel.  Which I did, and it worked.  However, I did a "--force" when I joined the base channel with the new key and it created a duplicate system entry in the spacewalk database.  Also, I installed and configured the osad client to enable remote activities to be scheduled immediately. Having duplicate server names did not initially cause a problem until I deleted one.  Which evidently was the one that was using some unique identifier that allowed osad to funtion properly.  After updating the server id on the client, I was able to get osad working again.

-Mike

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Wojtak, Greg 
  To: MDLUG's Main discussion list 
  Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 2:31 PM
  Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools *update*


  Same results - one thing I did notice in the logs was:

  rhnException: ('Could not initialize Oracle database connection',
  'exceptions.RuntimeError', 'Unable to acquire Oracle environment
  handle')

  RHN 14734 2008/12/11 14:26:56 -04:00: ("DATABASE CONNECTION TO 'xe'
  LOST", "Exception information: 'NoneType' object has no attribute
  'cursor'")

  This is from /etc/rhn/satellite-httpd/logs/error_log

  Are you seeing the same thing?

  Greg

  -----Original Message-----
  From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
  Of Michael ORourke
  Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 8:32 AM
  To: MDLUG's Main discussion 
  Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools *update*

  Okay...  here is what I did thus far.
  1. Standard install, followed directions on the Wiki.
  2. Created a new 'activation key' within Spacewalk GUI.
      Systems --> Activation Keys --> Create new key
      Using these values...
      Description: Default Key
      Key: <blank>
      Usage: <blank>
      Base Channels: Spacewalk Default
      Add-On Entitlements: <nothing checked>
      Universal Default: Checked
  3. Created software channel using python script
      Example:
      create_channel.py --label "centos-5.2-i386" --name "CentOS 5.2 
  32-bit" --summary "32-bit CentOS 5.2 channel"
  4. Attempt to join a client to spacewalk (failed)
      Example:
      rhnreg_ks --verbose --force --activationkey="<default key created
  with 
  spacewalk GUI " --serverUrl http://myspacewalk.server.local/XMLRPC
  5. Disabled firewall on spacewalk server.
  6. Retry the join (failed)
  7. Admin --> Spacewalk Configuration --> Restart (takes about 5 minutes
  on 
  our system)
  8. Verify spacewalk is up and running, then retry join (Success!)

  -Mike

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Michael ORourke
  To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
  Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 5:00 PM
  Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools


  I'm currently doing a reinstall, and I plan on taking better notes this 
  time.
  Strange thing, I was able to register a system with my spacewalk server,
  but 
  I was not able to join any channels.  Until I created a channel manually

  with that script.  Were you able to register a client with your
  spacewalk 
  server?
  I don't remember the exact steps I took to be able to register and join
  the 
  channel, but I did have it working.  This time around, I should have
  some 
  better notes that I can share regarding the proceedure.  Hopefully I can
  get 
  it working again!  :-)

  -Mike

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Wojtak, Greg
    To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
    Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 2:04 PM
    Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools


    It sounds like we are having the same problems.  I can't get a channel
    created - when I click on the Manage Entitlement Channels link it
  takes
    me to the Overview page, so I had to use the python script to create
  the
    channel manually.  Still no go, I can't get a client registered.  I
    asked about it on the Spacewalk list but haven't heard back about that
    particular issue.  How did you get a client registered?

    -----Original Message-----
    From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On
  Behalf
    Of Michael ORourke
    Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:33 PM
    To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
    Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools

    Greg,

    You have any luck with Spacewalk?
    It is not an easy tool to install and configure, that's for sure..
    Also, the wiki docs seem a bit disorganized.  It took me several
    attempts to get it installed and working.  Then I had trouble with the
    channels.  Mainly adding clients to a channel.  I was finally able to
    add a client to a channel, populate it with a few RPMs, and push the
    RPMs to the client.  Also, I noticed that the rhnsd client daemon
  wakes
    up every 240 minutes (default) and checks the spacewalk server for any
    actions.  I had initially thought that was 240 seconds.  So an "apply
    now" action could really be hours later.

    -Mike
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Wojtak, Greg
      To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
      Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:38 AM
      Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools


      Ah, the holy grail for CentOS/RHEL systems (aside from paying Red
  Hat
      $13,000 a year for a satellite server!).

      I am looking for the same thing (and I'm sure any other Linux
  Sysadmin
      is) for years.  I'm still using the strategy of "install updates on
    dev
      server, keep the rpm's that were downloaded, move them to test, then
      production, and pray to God that the same packages are in sync
  across
      all environments."

      Not very efficient.  I've been looking into building a yum server
  and
      configuring the yum-updatesd to download the packages that I roll
  out.
      A little better than using cron, but not by much.

      I'd be interested to hear if you find anything.

      Greg Wojtak

      -----Original Message-----
      From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On
    Behalf
      Of Michael ORourke
      Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:29 AM
      To: MDLUG's main mailing list
      Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools

      Lug nuts,

      I'm looking for some recommendations, specifically for the CentOS
  5.2
      distribution, for a centralized package management system or tools.
      I've
      spent some time doing vaious Google searches, but haven't found what
  I
      was
      looking for aside from basic tools such as 'yum' and 'up2date',
  which
      are
      designed to run on a single host.  I was hoping that I would stumble
      upon
      some existing tools that could be leveraged in an existing
    environment.
      What I would really like is:
      * Gui tools (browser based).
      * Internal centralized server (package repository).
      * Centralized management (for development, QA, & production).
      * Ability to schedule updates and manually push updates.
      * Auditing capabilities (which servers have what packages
  installed).
      * Ability to manage servers by group (e.g. Dev App servers).

      Running 'yum -update' from cron on each server isn't a good
  strategy,
      especially when it comes to production systems.  I would like to
  have
      the
      capability to pull down patches to a centralized server, then push
  the

      patches/updates to the development/QA environment, and finally out
  to
      the
      production systems after testing is completed.
      Is that too much to ask for.  :-)
      Any suggestions/recommendations/ideas?

      Thanks,
      Mike

      _______________________________________________
      mdlug mailing list
      mdlug at mdlug.org
      http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
      _______________________________________________
      mdlug mailing list
      mdlug at mdlug.org
      http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


   
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From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Mon Dec 15 18:21:09 2008
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 18:21:09 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP printer working well
In-Reply-To: <494691A9.6070900@ameritech.net>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B25B@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<20081215115752.3a07cb22@Nokia-N800-23-14>
	<494691A9.6070900@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380812151521u1c1f6aa9s340be974d8301bc5@mail.gmail.com>

--- Raymond McLaughlin wrote:

> Last year I did go with an HP DV9000 series laptop. Everything but the
> Ricoh card reader work perfectly, until about 2 weeks after the the one
> year warranty expired. Then the NVidia video failed. I can boot to
> command line, but even there the text characters look "worm eaten" and
> sketchy.

There's a known problem with certain nV laptop-graphics chips -- they
were improperly manufactured (a package-design error) that caused a
drastically-increased failure rate due to thermal cycling.  Several
manufacturers were stung by this; to my knowledge, nobody is taking
responsibility -- in fact, most manufacturers that used the affected
chipsets merely issued patches that force the cooling fans to run
continuously, thus causing the chips to fail AFTER the warranty
expires.  I'm not sure if there are any lawsuits over this, but there
SHOULD be...
"Summarizing the Nvidia problems with laptop chips overheating"
<http://news.cnet.com/8301-13554_3-10020782-33.html>

~~ Michael Rudas
    My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
    My blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com


From micorral at comcast.net  Mon Dec 15 23:02:43 2008
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 23:02:43 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] 486 processor
In-Reply-To: <1229346856.23256.2.camel@bemus-tony>
References: <20081215013302.M94296@wowway.com> <4945C300.9040308@gmail.com>
	<1229346856.23256.2.camel@bemus-tony>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0812152301450.2246@banana.sluggo.net>

2008-12-15, Monsieur Tony Bemus a ecrit:
> At the meeting yesterday someone mentioned that they knew someone that
> needed a 486 processor.
>
> Intel A80486SX-25 is the exact model that is printed on the processor.

Not even the dignity of a math co-processor! Aaargh.

Michael


From micorral at comcast.net  Tue Dec 16 00:02:14 2008
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 00:02:14 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] wanted to buy - sound card
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B259@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <20081215013302.M94296@wowway.com>
	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B259@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0812152359490.2246@banana.sluggo.net>

2008-12-15, Monsieur Ingles, Raymond a ecrit:
>> From: mdlug at wowway.com
>> Hello, if anyone has a sound card that they are pretty sure works with
>> Linux, and they would be willing to sell it, if it is a basic or entry
>> level, I will buy it.
>
> Like Aaron, I'll check tonight. I'm pretty sure I've got a couple basic
> PCI sound cards laying around. You can have 'em for free.

I have a few PCI sound cards I don't need either, and some ISA ones too.
They're available for free. I have way too much crap. :)

Michael


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Tue Dec 16 00:01:47 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 00:01:47 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP printer working well
In-Reply-To: <494691A9.6070900@ameritech.net>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B25B@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<20081215115752.3a07cb22@Nokia-N800-23-14>
	<494691A9.6070900@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90812152101k373fe4aasd20feb9ceb76d817@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 12:19 PM, Raymond McLaughlin
<driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
> Last year I did go with an HP DV9000 series laptop. Everything but the
> Ricoh card reader work perfectly, until about 2 weeks after the the one
> year warranty expired. Then the NVidia video failed. I can boot to
> command line, but even there the text characters look "worm eaten" and
> sketchy. Most of the time X will not start, the error is:"could not
> initialize NVidia /dev/nvidia0" (or words very much like that.) Even the
> HP logo at the first power up splash, and the bois screens look "off".
>
> I'm looking to get a second opinion, but I think I'll need to replace
> the motherboard. :(
>
> Other than that, it worked great!
>

You're not alone.  Just search with Google for "bad nvidia gpu".  It's
why I went with a Radeon for a recent purchase.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Tue Dec 16 00:09:25 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 00:09:25 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP printer working well
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B25B@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B25B@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90812152109n2712522fg5c1596964002b0b4@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 11:38 AM, Ingles, Raymond
<Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:
> I like that HP specifically makes Linux drivers available for most of
> their printers and updates them. My parents old printer died, and
> looking at circular deals, I had them pick up an HP C5580; the printer
> itself worked out of the box, my father (who's not a computer type) had
> no trouble. The scanner didn't work at first (they're running an older
> Ubuntu) but I was able to download and install the latest HP Linux
> drivers and it was quite straightforward.
>
>  Just offering a datapoint.
>

Lexmark's support for Linux is minimal but even if they were as good
as HP I wouldn't buy one.  Their paper handling is horrible.  Brother
and Samsung have good support.  My Brother MFC-440CN doesn't have
facsimile support under Linux but I don't need it.  The Samsung laser
printers I bought last year work well.  On Ubuntu I keep wasting time
finding and installing drivers for new hardware only to find out they
were already in the repo and all I had to do was plug it in.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Tue Dec 16 01:03:00 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 01:03:00 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP vs Toshiba
In-Reply-To: <20081215141953.0626e787@Nokia-N800-23-14>
References: <20081215102259.16d9caa4@Nokia-N800-23-14>
	<49468AD8.6030002@comcast.net>
	<20081215141953.0626e787@Nokia-N800-23-14>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90812152203r68db07a8o5e5da04bcb846ac2@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 2:19 PM, Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:
>        Because it doesn't fit the way the user uses it. The volume
> thumb wheel is constantly inadvertently getting bumped and the touchpad
> has allways been very touchy for ex.

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-laptop-and-netbook-25/how-to-disable-synaptics-touchpad-on-toshiba-satellite-655297/


>    Not the way I feel it should. Suspend/resume have never worked, and
> Toshiba does not seem very Linux friendly for ex.
>

My old M35X-S114 works pretty well.  With Ubuntu Intrepid I can
hibernate and suspend/resume although Pulse audio doesn't always
recover.  Video works much better than in Hardy which had a seriously
broken Intel driver.


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Tue Dec 16 06:10:22 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 06:10:22 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP vs Toshiba
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90812152203r68db07a8o5e5da04bcb846ac2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20081215102259.16d9caa4@Nokia-N800-23-14>
	<49468AD8.6030002@comcast.net>
	<20081215141953.0626e787@Nokia-N800-23-14>
	<b02c40e90812152203r68db07a8o5e5da04bcb846ac2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1229425822.13703.16.camel@peter-notebook.site>


On Tue, 2008-12-16 at 01:03 -0500, Jeff Hanson wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 2:19 PM, Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:
> >        Because it doesn't fit the way the user uses it. The volume
> > thumb wheel is constantly inadvertently getting bumped and the touchpad
> > has allways been very touchy for ex.
> 
> http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-laptop-and-netbook-25/how-to-disable-synaptics-touchpad-on-toshiba-satellite-655297/
> 

	Thanks for the link, but then I have no pointing device. Also, the
touchpad can be enabled/disabled via the hardware control center on
openSUSE. I wonder if it's the implementation of devices that varies
between manufacturers. I have the same brand touchpad in my Thinkpad and
it's always been rock solid. Go figure.

> >    Not the way I feel it should. Suspend/resume have never worked, and
> > Toshiba does not seem very Linux friendly for ex.
> >
> 
> My old M35X-S114 works pretty well.  With Ubuntu Intrepid I can
> hibernate and suspend/resume although Pulse audio doesn't always
> recover.  Video works much better than in Hardy which had a seriously
> broken Intel driver.

	Pretty well sums it up for me. On this machine I'm not going to accept
pretty well. I specifically shopped for mainstream, vanilla devices in
this notebook so I wouldn't have to settle. I don't use Ubuntu for the
same reason, sorry. It works great for a desktop when I tried it but not
a notebook.

Best Regards,
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From driveray at ameritech.net  Tue Dec 16 06:39:23 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 06:39:23 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP printer working well
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90812152109n2712522fg5c1596964002b0b4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B25B@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<b02c40e90812152109n2712522fg5c1596964002b0b4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4947936B.8040902@ameritech.net>

Jeff Hanson wrote:

> Lexmark's support for Linux is minimal but even if they were as good
> as HP I wouldn't buy one.  Their paper handling is horrible.  Brother
> and Samsung have good support.  My Brother MFC-440CN doesn't have
> facsimile support under Linux but I don't need it.

Are you talking about support for sending faxs from applications, i.e. 
the fax device appears as a printer? Or are you saying that computer 
support is needed to use it as a fax machine at all? I'm asking because 
I have seen printer/scanner/copier/fax devices made so cheaply that they 
had *no* stand alone functionality at all. They had to be connected to a 
running computer to do anything. I would avoid those like the plague!

> The Samsung laser
> printers I bought last year work well.  On Ubuntu I keep wasting time
> finding and installing drivers for new hardware only to find out they
> were already in the repo and all I had to do was plug it in.

Are you saying they were already in the repository and they would 
automatically install when you plugged it in, or do you mean they were 
already included in the distribution?



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Tue Dec 16 18:28:47 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 18:28:47 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP printer working well
In-Reply-To: <4947936B.8040902@ameritech.net>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B25B@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<b02c40e90812152109n2712522fg5c1596964002b0b4@mail.gmail.com>
	<4947936B.8040902@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90812161528x1977240eja480ba12da4bc4e9@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 6:39 AM, Raymond McLaughlin
<driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
> Jeff Hanson wrote:
>
>> Lexmark's support for Linux is minimal but even if they were as good
>> as HP I wouldn't buy one.  Their paper handling is horrible.  Brother
>> and Samsung have good support.  My Brother MFC-440CN doesn't have
>> facsimile support under Linux but I don't need it.
>
> Are you talking about support for sending faxs from applications, i.e.
> the fax device appears as a printer? Or are you saying that computer
> support is needed to use it as a fax machine at all? I'm asking because
> I have seen printer/scanner/copier/fax devices made so cheaply that they
> had *no* stand alone functionality at all. They had to be connected to a
> running computer to do anything. I would avoid those like the plague!

IIRC it doesn't require a PC for fax.  But there is no Linux support
for accessing the fax device.

The HPLIP fax utility is included with Ubuntu.

>> The Samsung laser
>> printers I bought last year work well.  On Ubuntu I keep wasting time
>> finding and installing drivers for new hardware only to find out they
>> were already in the repo and all I had to do was plug it in.
>
> Are you saying they were already in the repository and they would
> automatically install when you plugged it in, or do you mean they were
> already included in the distribution?

Basic support was in the repo and automatically installed:
http://www.openprinting.org/show_printer.cgi?recnum=Samsung-CLP-300

Samsung's closed driver is available from their web site and includes utils.

The HP C5180 I bought has a built-in web server that can run the scanner.

I don't use printers much so I can't remember all the details.  I also
have a pile of pre-owned models to test out but am to busy now.


From mdlug at wowway.com  Tue Dec 16 23:34:02 2008
From: mdlug at wowway.com (mdlug at wowway.com)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 22:34:02 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] getting sound to work besides aplay *.wav
Message-ID: <20081217042709.M16687@wowway.com>


Hello, so I bought a sound card.   I run Mepis, and I would save it picked up
the sound card right away. The sound card is a creative labs sound blaster
audigy SE.   Kmix sees it as a CA0106.  

If I run the command aplay -D default:CARD=CA0106  *.wav in a directory with
some .wav files, I can hear them.   

But no other sounds can be heard.   I have all the volume controls all the way up.

Is it going to be a big hassle to get like, basic internet sound working?

Like say streaming audio?  That's what I need.   

I've run through all the different controls in the various mepis system settings.
Nothing seems to help.  

Does anyone have any ideas?   Thanks

--
WOW! Homepage (http://www.wowway.com)



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Dec 17 01:23:44 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 01:23:44 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] getting sound to work besides aplay *.wav
In-Reply-To: <20081217042709.M16687@wowway.com>
References: <20081217042709.M16687@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90812162223j9e8544ew69e44d68af7251ce@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 11:34 PM,  <mdlug at wowway.com> wrote:
>
> Hello, so I bought a sound card.   I run Mepis, and I would save it picked up
> the sound card right away. The sound card is a creative labs sound blaster
> audigy SE.   Kmix sees it as a CA0106.
>
> If I run the command aplay -D default:CARD=CA0106  *.wav in a directory with
> some .wav files, I can hear them.
>
> But no other sounds can be heard.   I have all the volume controls all the way up.
>
> Is it going to be a big hassle to get like, basic internet sound working?
>
> Like say streaming audio?  That's what I need.
>
> I've run through all the different controls in the various mepis system settings.
> Nothing seems to help.
>
> Does anyone have any ideas?   Thanks
>

Do you have another sound device on the system that is being used
instead?  AC97?


From mdlug at wowway.com  Wed Dec 17 06:02:11 2008
From: mdlug at wowway.com (mdlug at wowway.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 05:02:11 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] getting sound to work besides aplay *.wav
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90812162223j9e8544ew69e44d68af7251ce@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20081217042709.M16687@wowway.com>
	<b02c40e90812162223j9e8544ew69e44d68af7251ce@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20081217110008.M58703@wowway.com>

On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 01:23:44 -0500, Jeff Hanson wrote

> Do you have another sound device on the system that is being used
> instead?  AC97?

Well, yes, the motherboard has a built-in Intel ICH and it has an AC97
component to it.   Do I need to disable that?  Thanks

> On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 11:34 PM,  <mdlug at wowway.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hello, so I bought a sound card.   I run Mepis, and I would save it picked up
> > the sound card right away. The sound card is a creative labs sound blaster
> > audigy SE.   Kmix sees it as a CA0106.
> >
> > If I run the command aplay -D default:CARD=CA0106  *.wav in a directory with
> > some .wav files, I can hear them.
> >
> > But no other sounds can be heard.   I have all the volume controls all the
way up.
> >
> > Is it going to be a big hassle to get like, basic internet sound working?
> >
> > Like say streaming audio?  That's what I need.
> >
> > I've run through all the different controls in the various mepis system
settings.
> > Nothing seems to help.
> >
> > Does anyone have any ideas?   Thanks
> >
> 

> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


--
WOW! Homepage (http://www.wowway.com)



From mdlug at wowway.com  Wed Dec 17 06:07:31 2008
From: mdlug at wowway.com (mdlug at wowway.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 05:07:31 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] a chown -R disaster recovery question
Message-ID: <20081217110220.M3799@wowway.com>

Hello, let's say I have a system where there are hundreds of users, with a
system of NIS-mapped home dirs such as this:

/filesystem/vol/users/user1
/filesystem/vol/users/user2
/filesystem/vol/users/user3 
...
/filesystem1/vol1/users/userX

and each user is owner of their own home dir.

Accidentally, I go through at the level of /filesystem/vol and 
I chmod -R user1 *   (I know, that was a mistake).

Is there a way to run back through that and chown everyone back?

Thanks, 


--
WOW! Homepage (http://www.wowway.com)



From mdlug at wowway.com  Wed Dec 17 06:07:58 2008
From: mdlug at wowway.com (mdlug at wowway.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 05:07:58 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] a chown -R disaster recovery question
Message-ID: <20081217110742.M71076@wowway.com>

Hello, let's say I have a system where there are hundreds of users, with a
system of NIS-mapped home dirs such as this:

/filesystem/vol/users/user1
/filesystem/vol/users/user2
/filesystem/vol/users/user3 
...
/filesystem1/vol1/users/userX

and each user is owner of their own home dir.

Accidentally, I go through at the level of /filesystem/vol and 
I chmod -R user1 *   (I know, that was a mistake).

Is there a way to run back through that and chown everyone back?

Thanks, 


--
WOW! Homepage (http://www.wowway.com)



From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Wed Dec 17 06:55:33 2008
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 06:55:33 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] a chown -R disaster recovery question
References: <20081217110742.M71076@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <00C4615FE8814247BFBAD5301671BA39@AMD2000>

Try this...

ls -1 /filesystem/vol/users | xargs -i chown -R {} /filesystem/vol/users/{}

Thats a "ls dash one" not a "ls dash el"

-Mike

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: mdlug at wowway.com 
  To: mdlug at mdlug.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 6:07 AM
  Subject: [mdlug] a chown -R disaster recovery question


  Hello, let's say I have a system where there are hundreds of users, with a
  system of NIS-mapped home dirs such as this:

  /filesystem/vol/users/user1
  /filesystem/vol/users/user2
  /filesystem/vol/users/user3 
  ...
  /filesystem1/vol1/users/userX

  and each user is owner of their own home dir.

  Accidentally, I go through at the level of /filesystem/vol and 
  I chmod -R user1 *   (I know, that was a mistake).

  Is there a way to run back through that and chown everyone back?

  Thanks, 


  --
  WOW! Homepage (http://www.wowway.com)

  _______________________________________________
  mdlug mailing list
  mdlug at mdlug.org
  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

From mdlug at wowway.com  Wed Dec 17 08:02:42 2008
From: mdlug at wowway.com (mdlug at wowway.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 07:02:42 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] chown -R recovery + sanity check
Message-ID: <20081217125844.M25957@wowway.com>

Hello again, one more thing:  Is there a way to do it so that I can stop and
check the results on first couple and then let it go?

This is what I was thinking, in psuedocode

For each entry in `ypcat passwd`
      $USERNAME = awk <awk command to extract username>
      chown -R $USERNAME $USERNAME
      pause;
      if OK continue else break
Done

Thanks again, Dean

Hello, let's say I have a system where there are hundreds of users, with a
system of NIS-mapped home dirs such as this:

/filesystem/vol/users/user1
/filesystem/vol/users/user2
/filesystem/vol/users/user3
...
/filesystem1/vol1/users/userX

and each user is owner of their own home dir.

Accidentally, I go through at the level of /filesystem/vol and
I chmod -R user1 *   (I know, that was a mistake).

Is there a way to run back through that and chown everyone back?



From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Wed Dec 17 08:26:02 2008
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 08:26:02 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] chown -R recovery + sanity check
References: <20081217125844.M25957@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <E5C1E5CD008C46198C322A8FAAB23F25@AMD2000>

Sure... you can do something like that, but the directory/file permissions are already broken.  So if you run the comand I suggested, and it fails, you are not any worse off.  :-)

-Mike
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: mdlug at wowway.com 
  To: mdlug at mdlug.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 8:02 AM
  Subject: [mdlug] chown -R recovery + sanity check


  Hello again, one more thing:  Is there a way to do it so that I can stop and
  check the results on first couple and then let it go?

  This is what I was thinking, in psuedocode

  For each entry in `ypcat passwd`
        $USERNAME = awk <awk command to extract username>
        chown -R $USERNAME $USERNAME
        pause;
        if OK continue else break
  Done

  Thanks again, Dean

  Hello, let's say I have a system where there are hundreds of users, with a
  system of NIS-mapped home dirs such as this:

  /filesystem/vol/users/user1
  /filesystem/vol/users/user2
  /filesystem/vol/users/user3
  ...
  /filesystem1/vol1/users/userX

  and each user is owner of their own home dir.

  Accidentally, I go through at the level of /filesystem/vol and
  I chmod -R user1 *   (I know, that was a mistake).

  Is there a way to run back through that and chown everyone back?

  _______________________________________________
  mdlug mailing list
  mdlug at mdlug.org
  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

From gib at juno.com  Wed Dec 17 09:47:39 2008
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 14:47:39 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] if programming languages were religions
Message-ID: <20081217.094739.21789.0@webmail04.vgs.untd.com>

 
http://www.aegisub.net/2008/12/if-programming-languages-were-religions.html
____________________________________________________________
Click for free information on accounting careers, $150 hour potential.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/PnY6rbttHTOC25XYoGFjtiqIeqigN6F6imE2JeekjIA3n0wRpDtPm/

From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 17 09:58:09 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 06:58:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] if programming languages were religions
References: <20081217.094739.21789.0@webmail04.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <111267.53344.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Yes that is very good.? 

and I'll throw my shoe at any one that does not agree. LOL


David C.Lnne 




________________________________
From: "gib at juno.com" <gib at juno.com>
To: mdlug at mdlug.org
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:47:39 AM
Subject: [mdlug] if programming languages were religions


http://www.aegisub.net/2008/12/if-programming-languages-were-religions.html
____________________________________________________________
Click for free information on accounting careers, $150 hour potential.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/PnY6rbttHTOC25XYoGFjtiqIeqigN6F6imE2JeekjIA3n0wRpDtPm/
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      

From peter at petertheplumber.net  Wed Dec 17 13:24:27 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 13:24:27 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP vs Toshiba
In-Reply-To: <20081215102259.16d9caa4@Nokia-N800-23-14>
References: <20081215102259.16d9caa4@Nokia-N800-23-14>
Message-ID: <20081217132427.2de8dc2e@Nokia-N800-23-14>

On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 10:22:59 -0500
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:

> Good Morning All,
>     I have a real dilema now that prices are coming down, apparently
> quite a bit. I could replace the 17" Toshiba Satellite I just got last
> year with a comparable 17" HP notebook for about 2/3 of what I paid
> last year. The user has never really liked the Toshiba and neither
> have I. I would most likely sell the Toshiba if I did buy the HP. I
> would be moving to an AMD processor from an Intel but other than that
> pretty much vanilla from what I've seen so far. Given that HP
> typically is much friendlier to Linux than Toshiba I'm thinking this
> might be a good move. Anybody have any thoughts on this? Any
> particular things I need to steer clear of?

	In case anyone's curios, I will not be selling a used Toshiba
dual core notebook this year. It came down to the fingerprint reader
I have now that I would have to give up if I switched. openSUSE 11 has
it even better integrated so that the user can swipe in from the
screensaver as well as login. That and my misadventures with rsync that
I need to clean up in /home should make the Toshiba much easier to use.
Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

Best Regards,


-- 
?Peter The Plumber sm on the road

Sent from a mobile Internet Tablet


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Dec 17 14:12:28 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 14:12:28 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] getting sound to work besides aplay *.wav
In-Reply-To: <20081217110008.M58703@wowway.com>
References: <20081217042709.M16687@wowway.com>
	<b02c40e90812162223j9e8544ew69e44d68af7251ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<20081217110008.M58703@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90812171112y547f7e4eqfc059af3267db825@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 6:02 AM,  <mdlug at wowway.com> wrote:
> Well, yes, the motherboard has a built-in Intel ICH and it has an AC97
> component to it.   Do I need to disable that?  Thanks

Wouldn't hurt unless you really need multiple sound devices.  Google
turned up this thread:
http://www.mepis.org/node/11336


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Dec 17 15:24:59 2008
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:24:59 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] getting sound to work besides aplay *.wav
In-Reply-To: <20081217110008.M58703@wowway.com>
References: <20081217042709.M16687@wowway.com>	<b02c40e90812162223j9e8544ew69e44d68af7251ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<20081217110008.M58703@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <4949601B.9010606@gmail.com>

mdlug at wowway.com wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 01:23:44 -0500, Jeff Hanson wrote
> 
>> Do you have another sound device on the system that is being used
>> instead?  AC97?
> 
> Well, yes, the motherboard has a built-in Intel ICH and it has an AC97
> component to it.   Do I need to disable that?

Why would you disable hardware that you've already demonstrated
to be working?

Think, man, THINK!
[And no, I'm not being flippant...I truly mean it...
THINK through the problem, instead of flailing around
aimlessly]

  Thanks
> 
>> On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 11:34 PM,  <mdlug at wowway.com> wrote:
>>> Hello, so I bought a sound card.   I run Mepis, and I would save it picked up
>>> the sound card right away. The sound card is a creative labs sound blaster
>>> audigy SE.   Kmix sees it as a CA0106.
>>>
>>> If I run the command aplay -D default:CARD=CA0106  *.wav in a directory with
>>> some .wav files, I can hear them.
>>>
>>> But no other sounds can be heard.   I have all the volume controls all the
> way up.
>>> Is it going to be a big hassle to get like, basic internet sound working?
>>>
>>> Like say streaming audio?  That's what I need.
>>>
>>> I've run through all the different controls in the various mepis system
> settings.
>>> Nothing seems to help.
>>>
>>> Does anyone have any ideas?   Thanks
>>>


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Dec 17 15:33:50 2008
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:33:50 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] a chown -R disaster recovery question
In-Reply-To: <20081217110220.M3799@wowway.com>
References: <20081217110220.M3799@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <4949622E.4050905@gmail.com>

mdlug at wowway.com wrote:
> Hello, let's say I have a system where there are hundreds of users, with a
> system of NIS-mapped home dirs such as this:
> 
> /filesystem/vol/users/user1
> /filesystem/vol/users/user2
> /filesystem/vol/users/user3 
> ...
> /filesystem1/vol1/users/userX
> 
> and each user is owner of their own home dir.
> 
> Accidentally, I go through at the level of /filesystem/vol and 
> I chmod -R user1 *   (I know, that was a mistake).
> 
> Is there a way to run back through that and chown everyone back?
> 

Of course, you just use chown again.

#!/bin/bash
TRUNK=/filesystem/vol/users
chown __root?__  $TRUNK

cd $TRUNK
for USER in *
do
   chown -R $USER $USER
done
# end of shellscript.


Put the above text in a file,
chmod that file to mode 755
and then execute that file

for example, say you put it in a file called "chownback"
(put this in some place like /root/bin or /local/bin or /usr/local/bin)

cd /usr/local/bin
cat > chownback   ## cut & past the script text on the next line
                  # then use ctrl-D to end input
chmod 755 chownback
./chownback




From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Dec 17 15:53:43 2008
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:53:43 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP vs Toshiba
In-Reply-To: <20081217132427.2de8dc2e@Nokia-N800-23-14>
References: <20081215102259.16d9caa4@Nokia-N800-23-14>
	<20081217132427.2de8dc2e@Nokia-N800-23-14>
Message-ID: <494966D7.20205@gmail.com>

Peter Bart wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 10:22:59 -0500
> Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:
> 
>> Good Morning All,
>>     I have a real dilema now that prices are coming down, apparently
>> quite a bit. I could replace the 17" Toshiba Satellite I just got last
>> year with a comparable 17" HP notebook for about 2/3 of what I paid
>> last year. The user has never really liked the Toshiba and neither
>> have I. I would most likely sell the Toshiba if I did buy the HP. I
>> would be moving to an AMD processor from an Intel but other than that
>> pretty much vanilla from what I've seen so far. Given that HP
>> typically is much friendlier to Linux than Toshiba I'm thinking this
>> might be a good move. Anybody have any thoughts on this? Any
>> particular things I need to steer clear of?
> 
> 	In case anyone's curios, I will not be selling a used Toshiba
> dual core notebook this year. It came down to the fingerprint reader
> I have now that I would have to give up if I switched.

Why would you have to give up having a fingerprint reader?
Fingerprint readers are in the $20 - $30 range at Microcenter.

> openSUSE 11 has
> it even better integrated so that the user can swipe in from the
> screensaver as well as login. That and my misadventures with rsync that
> I need to clean up in /home should make the Toshiba much easier to use.
> Thanks everyone for your thoughts.
> 
> Best Regards,


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Wed Dec 17 17:24:55 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 17:24:55 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP vs Toshiba
In-Reply-To: <494966D7.20205@gmail.com>
References: <20081215102259.16d9caa4@Nokia-N800-23-14>
	<20081217132427.2de8dc2e@Nokia-N800-23-14>
	<494966D7.20205@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20081217172455.1ae538dc@Nokia-N800-23-14>

On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:53:43 -0500
Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Peter Bart wrote:
> > On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 10:22:59 -0500
> > Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:
<snip>
> 
> Why would you have to give up having a fingerprint reader?
> Fingerprint readers are in the $20 - $30 range at Microcenter.

	Not integrated readers.
-- 
___Peter The Plumber sm on the road
Sent from a mobile Internet Tablet


From brian at dangerbacon.com  Wed Dec 17 23:02:58 2008
From: brian at dangerbacon.com (Brian)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 23:02:58 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Sad state of schools but hope may be with students
In-Reply-To: <cd5131a50812100454l5be0bad3s883463f35554e838@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cd5131a50812100454l5be0bad3s883463f35554e838@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200812172302.58225.brian@dangerbacon.com>

On Wednesday 10 December 2008 07:54:18 am - wrote:
> This may be already know but it was a interesting read - base link from
> slashdot and digg
>
>
> http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding-our-kids-back.html
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

Hahahaha.  This could be the beginning of a new video used to scare nerdy 
teens straight, "GNU Madness!"

From the article:
" I along with many others tried Linux during college..."

But I didn't inhale!

-- 
Brian
Jabber/GTalk: brian at dangerbacon.com
"The whole world is a mess, and I just want to... rule it." - Dr. Horrible


From micorral at comcast.net  Wed Dec 17 23:23:15 2008
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 23:23:15 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] if programming languages were religions
In-Reply-To: <20081217.094739.21789.0@webmail04.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20081217.094739.21789.0@webmail04.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0812172321360.2322@banana.sluggo.net>

2008-12-17, Monsieur gib at juno.com a ecrit:
> http://www.aegisub.net/2008/12/if-programming-languages-were-religions.html

Heh, some python fanboy is loving all the attention his webpage
is getting! :)

Michael


From gib at juno.com  Thu Dec 18 08:19:05 2008
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 13:19:05 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] ArbCamp+08 - A geek meeting in AA tonight
Message-ID: <20081218.081905.19874.2@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>

 
A geek meeting in AA tonight:
http://a2geeks.org/display/geek/ArbCamp+08
____________________________________________________________
Internet Security Software - Click here.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/PnY6rbt0eJw2rC7prlrOMj5RGHQ4dH86RIV5z0z4kYxNw7EZ36EXy/

From gib at juno.com  Thu Dec 18 11:32:08 2008
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 16:32:08 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] ArbCamp+08 - A geek meeting in AA tonight
Message-ID: <20081218.113208.25557.0@webmail16.vgs.untd.com>

Oh, I see they are fully booked.  Oh well.

-- "gib at juno.com" <gib at juno.com> wrote:

A geek meeting in AA tonight:
http://a2geeks.org/display/geek/ArbCamp+08
____________________________________________________________
Internet Security Software - Click here.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/PnY6rbt0eJw2rC7prlrOMj5RGHQ4dH86RIV5z0z4kYxNw7EZ36EXy/
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From danno at umich.edu  Thu Dec 18 12:59:36 2008
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 12:59:36 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] ArbCamp+08 - A geek meeting in AA tonight
In-Reply-To: <20081218.113208.25557.0@webmail16.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20081218.113208.25557.0@webmail16.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <20081218175936.GB84473@maniac.deathstar.org>

On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 04:32:08PM +0000, gib at juno.com wrote:
> Oh, I see they are fully booked.  Oh well.
> 
> -- "gib at juno.com" <gib at juno.com> wrote:
> 
> A geek meeting in AA tonight:
> http://a2geeks.org/display/geek/ArbCamp+08

the page says:

ArbCamp open to ALL again, with our CHANGE OF VENUE

Thanks to SPARK, we will be able to accomodate EVERYONE who has
signed up - there is no more waitlist! Please join us, and invite
your friends to register here as well!

danno


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Thu Dec 18 13:53:02 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 13:53:02 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] getting sound to work besides aplay *.wav
In-Reply-To: <4949601B.9010606@gmail.com>
References: <20081217042709.M16687@wowway.com>	<b02c40e90812162223j9e8544ew69e44d68af7251ce@mail.gmail.com><20081217110008.M58703@wowway.com>
	<4949601B.9010606@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B25E@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Aaron Kulkis

> Why would you disable hardware that you've already demonstrated
> to be working?

 Because it's redundant now that he's got another, better sound card?

 This ties back into the Linux sound handling that I mentioned before.
It's not hard - for any *particular* sound API - to direct sound to a
particular card. Getting *all* the various sound APIs to agree on that
routing is much harder. If he's not doing things that need multiple
sound cards, then disabling the unused hardware prevents such conflicts,
like disabling onboard video if there's no monitor connected to it
helps.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                                 (313)
227-2317

 "In an illustrative recent study, subjects were asked their opinion
about
  a social welfare policy, which was described as being endorsed either
by
   Democrats or by Republicans. Although the subjects sincerely believed
   that their responses were based on the objective merits of the
policy,
   the major determinant of what they thought of the policy was in fact
  whether or not their favored political party was said to endorse it."
                - Paul Bloom and Deena Skolnick Weisberg
          (study at: http://content2.apa.org/journals/psp/85/5/808)
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From micorral at comcast.net  Thu Dec 18 18:16:13 2008
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 18:16:13 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] ArbCamp+08 - A geek meeting in AA tonight
In-Reply-To: <20081218.081905.19874.2@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20081218.081905.19874.2@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0812181814130.3105@banana.sluggo.net>

2008-12-18, Monsieur gib at juno.com a ecrit:
> A geek meeting in AA tonight

Ah, the circus is in town, cool. Will the bearded lady be there?

Michael


From lugnuts at doehler.us  Fri Dec 19 12:35:02 2008
From: lugnuts at doehler.us (Joe Doehler)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 12:35:02 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Fedora 10 Networking problems
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0812181814130.3105@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <20081218.081905.19874.2@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0812181814130.3105@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <E1LDjCa-0004Un-00@doehler.us>

My new install of Fedora-10 does not start the two network interfaces 
installed in the box. Both interfaces come up properly, manually, 
with "ifup ethx" after boot. Both 
"/etc/sysconfig/networking/devices/ifcfg-ethx" files contain the line 
"ONBOOT=yes", but that is obviously ignored.

/etc/sysconfig/network contains "NETWORKING=yes"

Where in Fedora-10 is the key statement that will bring the 
interfaces up at boot?

FYI, I disabled NetworkManager because I want static adresses for the 
interfaces.

TIA.
Joe.



From jmtaylor90 at gmail.com  Fri Dec 19 15:17:49 2008
From: jmtaylor90 at gmail.com (Jason Taylor)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 15:17:49 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Fedora 10 Networking problems
In-Reply-To: <E1LDjCa-0004Un-00@doehler.us>
References: <20081218.081905.19874.2@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0812181814130.3105@banana.sluggo.net>
	<E1LDjCa-0004Un-00@doehler.us>
Message-ID: <1229717869.3436.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Fri, 2008-12-19 at 12:35 -0500, Joe Doehler wrote:
> My new install of Fedora-10 does not start the two network interfaces 
> installed in the box. Both interfaces come up properly, manually, 
> with "ifup ethx" after boot. Both 
> "/etc/sysconfig/networking/devices/ifcfg-ethx" files contain the line 
> "ONBOOT=yes", but that is obviously ignored.
> 
> /etc/sysconfig/network contains "NETWORKING=yes"
> 
> Where in Fedora-10 is the key statement that will bring the 
> interfaces up at boot?
> 
> FYI, I disabled NetworkManager because I want static adresses for the 
> interfaces.
> 
> TIA.
> Joe.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

Did you set the flag for so the card(s) are not controlled by
NetworkManager?

-Jason
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From billings at negate.org  Fri Dec 19 15:22:11 2008
From: billings at negate.org (Jonathan Billings)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 15:22:11 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Fedora 10 Networking problems
In-Reply-To: <E1LDjCa-0004Un-00@doehler.us>
References: <20081218.081905.19874.2@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0812181814130.3105@banana.sluggo.net>
	<E1LDjCa-0004Un-00@doehler.us>
Message-ID: <20081219202211.GA671@rhea.lsait.lsa.umich.edu>

On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 12:35:02PM -0500, Joe Doehler wrote:
> Where in Fedora-10 is the key statement that will bring the 
> interfaces up at boot?
> 
> FYI, I disabled NetworkManager because I want static adresses for the 
> interfaces.

If you disabled the 'NetworkManager' service, did you enable the
'network' service?

-- 
Jonathan Billings <billings at negate.org>


From micorral at comcast.net  Fri Dec 19 17:18:12 2008
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 17:18:12 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Fedora 10 Networking problems
In-Reply-To: <E1LDjCa-0004Un-00@doehler.us>
References: <20081218.081905.19874.2@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0812181814130.3105@banana.sluggo.net>
	<E1LDjCa-0004Un-00@doehler.us>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0812191640270.2302@banana.sluggo.net>

2008-12-19, Monsieur Joe Doehler a ecrit:
> "/etc/sysconfig/networking/devices/ifcfg-ethx" files contain the line
> "ONBOOT=yes", but that is obviously ignored.
>
> /etc/sysconfig/network contains "NETWORKING=yes"
>
> Where in Fedora-10 is the key statement that will bring the
> interfaces up at boot?
>
> FYI, I disabled NetworkManager because I want static adresses for the
> interfaces.

Do your /etc/sysconfig/network-script/ifcfg-ethX files have the line
"NM_CONTROLLED=no" in them?

I always disable and uninstall NetworkManager just on principle. :)

FWIW, here's my /etc/sysconfig/network-script/ifcfg-eth0 from F10. I had
to manually edit it to get a static IP working (it's a known bug in F10),
and it does bring up eth0 at boot:

# Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL-8110SC/8169SC Gigabit Ethernet
DEVICE=eth0
HWADDR=00:18:bc:37:69:b4
ONBOOT=yes
BOOTPROTO=none
IPADDR=192.168.1.254
BROADCAST=192.168.1.255
NETMASK=255.255.255.0
NETWORK=192.168.1.0
GATEWAY=192.168.1.1
TYPE=Ethernet
USERCTL=no
IPV6INIT=no
PEERDNS=yes
DNS1=68.87.77.130
DNS2=68.87.72.130
DOMAIN=sothfd01.mi.comcast.net
NM_CONTROLLED=no

I also put this in /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/route-eth0:

GATEWAY0=19.168.1.1
NETMASK0=255.255.255.0
ADDRESS0=192.168.1.0

By the way, since the default installation for F10 is broken if you
want to use static IP's, there is a way to set up a static IP at
install time at the "boot:" prompt when using the install media:
boot: linux askmethod

Alternatively, you could set the network info at the boot prompt:
<http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/f10/en_US/ap-admin-options.html>
See section A.1.4, "Manually Configuring the Network Settings".

Michael


From lugnuts at doehler.us  Sat Dec 20 13:19:10 2008
From: lugnuts at doehler.us (Joe Doehler)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 13:19:10 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Fedora 10 Networking problems
In-Reply-To: <20081219202211.GA671@rhea.lsait.lsa.umich.edu>
References: <20081218.081905.19874.2@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0812181814130.3105@banana.sluggo.net>
	<E1LDjCa-0004Un-00@doehler.us>
	<20081219202211.GA671@rhea.lsait.lsa.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <E1LE6Ms-0006bR-00@doehler.us>

At 03:22 PM 12/19/2008, Jonathan wrote:
 >...
 >If you u disabled the 'NetworkManager' service, did you enable
 >the 'network' service?

I added a link in "rc3.d" as:
S98network --> ../init.d/network

The interfaces now start at boot up (thanks!), but the default route 
(via the gateway) is not found, even after editing the "ifcfg-ethx" 
files as Michael Corral suggested. All other parameters get set 
properly. Perhaps I should start the network earlier, with a lower 
sequence number?

To set the default route, I need to state, manually:
route add -net 0.0.0.0 netmask 0.0.0.0 gw 192.168.3.254 dev eth0

Somehow, this default route is not found by a network restart in 
spite of the gateway address being specified (and bound to eth0) in 
various files.

FWIW, the Fedora-10 GUI configuration utility is totally useless: it 
corrupts the interface configuration files beyond functionality.

With regards to "ifcfg-ethx", I find copies in these three directories:
/etc/sysconfig/networking/devices
/etc/sysconfig/networking/profiles/default
/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts

Which one has precedence? They seem to synch each other, but only 
more-or-less: it takes multiple boots before they are all sync'd. It 
seems awfully messy to have multiple files meant for the same purpose...

One further annoying problem that I have is that my gateway locks up 
when my Fedora-10 server boots. That gateway keeps working properly 
if I disconnect the Ethernet wire to the F-10 server while it boots. 
It is as if the booting system sniffs around in IPv6 mode before 
settling into IPv4. Is it a good idea to disable IPv6 entirely in 
this day and age? I'll return the favor of any answer by asking how 
to enable and configure IPv6 after I have installed Fedora-13 :-)

Joe.



From micorral at comcast.net  Sat Dec 20 16:11:28 2008
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 16:11:28 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Fedora 10 Networking problems
In-Reply-To: <E1LE6Ms-0006bR-00@doehler.us>
References: <20081218.081905.19874.2@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0812181814130.3105@banana.sluggo.net>
	<E1LDjCa-0004Un-00@doehler.us>
	<20081219202211.GA671@rhea.lsait.lsa.umich.edu>
	<E1LE6Ms-0006bR-00@doehler.us>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0812201558470.3945@banana.sluggo.net>

2008-12-20, Monsieur Joe Doehler a ecrit:
> I added a link in "rc3.d" as:
> S98network --> ../init.d/network
>
> The interfaces now start at boot up (thanks!), but the default route
> (via the gateway) is not found, even after editing the "ifcfg-ethx"
> files as Michael Corral suggested. All other parameters get set
> properly.

On my F10 system, the network service startup scripts start earlier:

rc2.d/S10network -> ../init.d/network
rc3.d/S10network -> ../init.d/network
rc4.d/S10network -> ../init.d/network
rc5.d/S10network -> ../init.d/network

rc0.d/K90network -> ../init.d/network
rc1.d/K90network -> ../init.d/network
rc6.d/K90network -> ../init.d/network

Also, did you edit the /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/route-eth0 as I
mentioned before? You didn't specifically mention that file. That file
and /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0 were all I had to edit
to get a static IP and default route to work in F10.

Michael


From jesse at salens.org  Sun Dec 21 01:11:57 2008
From: jesse at salens.org (Jesse J. Salens)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 01:11:57 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Fedora 10 Networking problems
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0812201558470.3945@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <20081218.081905.19874.2@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0812181814130.3105@banana.sluggo.net>
	<E1LDjCa-0004Un-00@doehler.us>
	<20081219202211.GA671@rhea.lsait.lsa.umich.edu>
	<E1LE6Ms-0006bR-00@doehler.us>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0812201558470.3945@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <1697a1580812202211t3c8a57f9o2a1214d93a551465@mail.gmail.com>

You might want to check /etc/sysconfig/network to see if there is any
GATEWAY= or GATEWAYDEV= statements. You can add the default gateway to this
file, which overrides the ethX for the default.

Also, instead of manually linking you can set network to run as "chkconfig
network on" and check with "chkconfig --list network".

On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 4:11 PM, Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net>wrote:

> 2008-12-20, Monsieur Joe Doehler a ecrit:
> > I added a link in "rc3.d" as:
> > S98network --> ../init.d/network
> >
> > The interfaces now start at boot up (thanks!), but the default route
> > (via the gateway) is not found, even after editing the "ifcfg-ethx"
> > files as Michael Corral suggested. All other parameters get set
> > properly.
>
> On my F10 system, the network service startup scripts start earlier:
>
> rc2.d/S10network -> ../init.d/network
> rc3.d/S10network -> ../init.d/network
> rc4.d/S10network -> ../init.d/network
> rc5.d/S10network -> ../init.d/network
>
> rc0.d/K90network -> ../init.d/network
> rc1.d/K90network -> ../init.d/network
> rc6.d/K90network -> ../init.d/network
>
> Also, did you edit the /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/route-eth0 as I
> mentioned before? You didn't specifically mention that file. That file
> and /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0 were all I had to edit
> to get a static IP and default route to work in F10.
>
> Michael
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From lugnuts at doehler.us  Sun Dec 21 14:55:02 2008
From: lugnuts at doehler.us (Joe Doehler)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 14:55:02 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Fedora 10 Networking problems
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0812201558470.3945@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <20081218.081905.19874.2@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0812181814130.3105@banana.sluggo.net>
	<E1LDjCa-0004Un-00@doehler.us>
	<20081219202211.GA671@rhea.lsait.lsa.umich.edu>
	<E1LE6Ms-0006bR-00@doehler.us>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0812201558470.3945@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <E1LEUd2-0000mp-00@doehler.us>

At 04:11 PM 12/20/2008, Michael wrote:
...
>On my F10 system, the network service startup scripts start earlier:
>
>rc2.d/S10network -> ../init.d/network
>rc3.d/S10network -> ../init.d/network
>rc4.d/S10network -> ../init.d/network
>rc5.d/S10network -> ../init.d/network
>
>rc0.d/K90network -> ../init.d/network
>rc1.d/K90network -> ../init.d/network
>rc6.d/K90network -> ../init.d/network
>
>Also, did you edit the /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/route-eth0 as I
>mentioned before? You didn't specifically mention that file. That file
>and /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0 were all I had to edit
>to get a static IP and default route to work in F10.
...

I changed the sequence numbers to duplicate yours (and that of my 
older Red Hat 7) and edited (all three existing versions of) 
"route-eth0" to read:

ADDRESS0=192.168.3.73        / Host IP
NETMASK0=255.255.255.255
ADDRESS1=192.168.3.254       / Gateway IP
NETMASK1=255.255.255.255
ADDRESS2=0.0.0.0             / Default route
NETMASK2=0.0.0.0
GATEWAY2=192.168.3.254

All entries appear to be necessary for the routing table to be 
correct after boot. RH-7 is certainly simpler and less messy...

I now have an Fedora 10 system that boots! Thanks, guys.

Joe.



From Stan at mcomputersolutions.com  Sun Dec 21 21:40:06 2008
From: Stan at mcomputersolutions.com (Stan Green)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 21:40:06 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] ext3 - fixing bad block in RAID 1 on root file system.
Message-ID: <200812212140.06308.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>

I have a ext3 file system, which is the root FS, on a RAID 1 array where one 
drive failed.  No problem, I replace it and the array starts to rebuild. It 
gets to 99% done and finds a bad block on the source drive. So, it starts 
over going into an endless rebuild loop. 

I booted to Knoppix and ran e2fsck -cc (Should this have been -c ?) on the 
partition,  /dev/hda1, (not the RAID array), but that did not work. The 
rebuild still found the bad block.

So, I need to some how mark the block bad (I have the number) so that the RAID 
rebuild will complete.

The system seems to run fine with the bad block, it just will not rebuild the 
RAID array. The distro is Fedora 6.

Any ideas here?

FYI: Yes I am replacing the source drive as soon as I get the the RAID array 
working again.

Thanks,
Stan


From jjn at nuge.com  Mon Dec 22 00:00:01 2008
From: jjn at nuge.com (Jay Nugent)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 00:00:01 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] ext3 - fixing bad block in RAID 1 on root file system.
In-Reply-To: <200812212140.06308.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0812212359110.1067-100000@home.nuge.com>

Greetings,

On Sun, 21 Dec 2008, Stan Green wrote:

> I have a ext3 file system, which is the root FS, on a RAID 1 array where one 
> drive failed.  No problem, I replace it and the array starts to rebuild. It 
> gets to 99% done and finds a bad block on the source drive. So, it starts 
> over going into an endless rebuild loop. 
> 
> I booted to Knoppix and ran e2fsck -cc (Should this have been -c ?) on the 
> partition,  /dev/hda1, (not the RAID array), but that did not work. The 
> rebuild still found the bad block.
> 
> So, I need to some how mark the block bad (I have the number) so that the RAID 
> rebuild will complete.
> 
> The system seems to run fine with the bad block, it just will not rebuild the 
> RAID array. The distro is Fedora 6.
> 
> Any ideas here?
> 
> FYI: Yes I am replacing the source drive as soon as I get the the RAID array 
> working again.

   /sbin/badblocks

   See the manpage for the syntax used to map out the bad blocks.

      --- Jay Nugent

+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Jay Nugent   jjn at nuge.com    (734)484-5105    (734)649-0850/Cell       |
|   Nugent Telecommunications  [www.nuge.com]                            |
|   Internet Consulting/Linux SysAdmin/Engineering & Design/ISP Reseller |
| ISP Monitoring [www.ispmonitor.org] ISP & Modem Performance Monitoring |
| Web-Pegasus    [www.webpegasus.com] Web Hosting/DNS Hosting/Shell Accts|
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 11:01pm  up 22 days,  7:11,  4 users,  load average: 0.35, 0.63, 0.34



From set at pobox.com  Mon Dec 22 00:41:18 2008
From: set at pobox.com (Paul)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 00:41:18 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] ext3 - fixing bad block in RAID 1 on root file system.
In-Reply-To: <200812212140.06308.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
References: <200812212140.06308.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <20081222054118.GA5936@squish.home.loc>

Stan Green <Stan at mcomputersolutions.com>, on Sun Dec 21, 2008 [09:40:06 PM] said:
> I have a ext3 file system, which is the root FS, on a RAID 1 array where one 
> drive failed.  No problem, I replace it and the array starts to rebuild. It 
> gets to 99% done and finds a bad block on the source drive. So, it starts 
> over going into an endless rebuild loop. 
> 
> I booted to Knoppix and ran e2fsck -cc (Should this have been -c ?) on the 
> partition,  /dev/hda1, (not the RAID array), but that did not work. The 
> rebuild still found the bad block.
> 
> So, I need to some how mark the block bad (I have the number) so that the RAID 
> rebuild will complete.
> 
> The system seems to run fine with the bad block, it just will not rebuild the 
> RAID array. The distro is Fedora 6.
> 
> Any ideas here?
> 

	Hi;

	Well, the raid rebuild is *probably* operating on a block level,
not the filesystem level, so informing the filesystem layer about
bad blocks wont help there. (ie. the raid system knows about groups
of disk sectors, not anything about the filesystem that lies on top.)
	If this data were real important, I would get a disk image
saved, do a backup of the filesystem to another disk, and *then*
reconstruct the raid. (easiest would just be to rsync to a fresh
disk, then reconstruct the raid)
	Im not familiar enough with the raid stuff to know if you can
just remove that group of sectors, but one thing you can do, is try
to get the drive to remap the bad sector. You can try writing to the
sector, and you can have the drive itself run self diagnostics and
perhaps repair itself.

	smartctl -t long /dev/hdx  <- have the disk test itself
	smartctl -a /dev/hdx | more   <- see what it thinks

	Writing the the bad sector/block can be done with dd, ie.
if you knew sector 99999 was bad, you could do:

#> dd if=/dev/hdx of=/dev/null skip=99999 count=1 bs=512

(this would read that sector, and an error would confirm it is the
right one--- maybe skip should be 99998...)

#> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hdx skip=99999 count=1 bs=512

(this would try to write to the sector: WARNING dont write to your
disk unless you know what you are doing.)

	I shouldnt really even describe using dd.... if you know
the *block* that is bad, you need to set bs=BLOCKSIZE

	[ The -cc option you mention does a read/write test, but it
will probably fail to do the write after the read fails....]


> FYI: Yes I am replacing the source drive as soon as I get the the RAID array 
> working again.
> 
	Seriously, just back up the filesystem to a fresh disk and
make a new mirror... Conventional Wisdom, is that bad sectors on a
modern (less that 10 years old) disk is usually an indicator of
impending death.
	
> Thanks,
> Stan


From billings at negate.org  Mon Dec 22 08:27:44 2008
From: billings at negate.org (Jonathan Billings)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 08:27:44 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Fedora 10 Networking problems
In-Reply-To: <E1LEUd2-0000mp-00@doehler.us>
References: <20081218.081905.19874.2@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0812181814130.3105@banana.sluggo.net>
	<E1LDjCa-0004Un-00@doehler.us>
	<20081219202211.GA671@rhea.lsait.lsa.umich.edu>
	<E1LE6Ms-0006bR-00@doehler.us>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0812201558470.3945@banana.sluggo.net>
	<E1LEUd2-0000mp-00@doehler.us>
Message-ID: <20081222132744.GA8723@rhea.lsait.lsa.umich.edu>

On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 02:55:02PM -0500, Joe Doehler wrote:
> I changed the sequence numbers to duplicate yours (and that of my 
> older Red Hat 7) and edited (all three existing versions of) 
> "route-eth0" to read:

For future reference, the appropriate way to do this is
'/sbin/chkconfig network on'.  chkconfig parses the init script for
the this information -- that's what the '# chkconfig: - 10 90' stands
for in the network init script.

-- 
Jonathan Billings <billings at negate.org>


From danno at umich.edu  Mon Dec 22 18:17:06 2008
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 18:17:06 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] ext3 - fixing bad block in RAID 1 on root file system.
In-Reply-To: <200812212140.06308.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
References: <200812212140.06308.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <20081222231706.GB95293@maniac.deathstar.org>

worst case, you can use dump & restore (or pick your favorite backup
& restore tools) to copy from the mostly-working drive to a new drive.
Should be able to keep going past errors.

while you are dorking with it, you might want to just build up a
fresh fedora 10 system and copy your user data off the existing
drive.

In the future to hopefully avoid this kind of problem, scrub
your RAIDs regularly:

   http://wiki.xdroop.com/space/Linux/Software+Raid+Scrub

Note that this applies for hardware raid as well as software raid,
although obviously it's a different process to scrub HW raid.

On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 09:40:06PM -0500, Stan Green wrote:
> I have a ext3 file system, which is the root FS, on a RAID 1 array where one 
> drive failed.  No problem, I replace it and the array starts to rebuild. It 
> gets to 99% done and finds a bad block on the source drive. So, it starts 
> over going into an endless rebuild loop. 
> 
> I booted to Knoppix and ran e2fsck -cc (Should this have been -c ?) on the 
> partition,  /dev/hda1, (not the RAID array), but that did not work. The 
> rebuild still found the bad block.
> 
> So, I need to some how mark the block bad (I have the number) so that the RAID 
> rebuild will complete.
> 
> The system seems to run fine with the bad block, it just will not rebuild the 
> RAID array. The distro is Fedora 6.
> 
> Any ideas here?
> 
> FYI: Yes I am replacing the source drive as soon as I get the the RAID array 
> working again.
> 
> Thanks,
> Stan
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From Stan at mcomputersolutions.com  Mon Dec 22 21:01:18 2008
From: Stan at mcomputersolutions.com (Stan Green)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 21:01:18 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] ext3 - fixing bad block in RAID 1 on root file system.
In-Reply-To: <20081222231706.GB95293@maniac.deathstar.org>
References: <200812212140.06308.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
	<20081222231706.GB95293@maniac.deathstar.org>
Message-ID: <200812222101.18199.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>

Thanks everyone for the help.

I got to thinking that if the rebuild was 99% done, maybe the data was all 
copied. I am happy to say it was. Knoppix to the rescue! 
So I set the partition back to linux (83) edited grub.conf, fstab, and 
mdadm.conf. Then ran grub to make the drive bootable. 

I'm happy to say the system is up and running, however only on one drive. New 
drives are in the mail.

I'm sure a scrub is in the furture of this and all my RAID boxes!

Regards,
Stan Green

On Monday 22 December 2008 18:17, you wrote:
> worst case, you can use dump & restore (or pick your favorite backup
> & restore tools) to copy from the mostly-working drive to a new drive.
> Should be able to keep going past errors.
>
> while you are dorking with it, you might want to just build up a
> fresh fedora 10 system and copy your user data off the existing
> drive.
>
> In the future to hopefully avoid this kind of problem, scrub
> your RAIDs regularly:
>
>    http://wiki.xdroop.com/space/Linux/Software+Raid+Scrub
>
> Note that this applies for hardware raid as well as software raid,
> although obviously it's a different process to scrub HW raid.
>
> On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 09:40:06PM -0500, Stan Green wrote:
> > I have a ext3 file system, which is the root FS, on a RAID 1 array where
> > one drive failed.  No problem, I replace it and the array starts to
> > rebuild. It gets to 99% done and finds a bad block on the source drive.
> > So, it starts over going into an endless rebuild loop.
> >
> > I booted to Knoppix and ran e2fsck -cc (Should this have been -c ?) on
> > the partition,  /dev/hda1, (not the RAID array), but that did not work.
> > The rebuild still found the bad block.
> >
> > So, I need to some how mark the block bad (I have the number) so that the
> > RAID rebuild will complete.
> >
> > The system seems to run fine with the bad block, it just will not rebuild
> > the RAID array. The distro is Fedora 6.
> >
> > Any ideas here?
> >
> > FYI: Yes I am replacing the source drive as soon as I get the the RAID
> > array working again.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Stan
> > _______________________________________________
> > mdlug mailing list
> > mdlug at mdlug.org
> > http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
> danno
> --
> dan pritts
> danno at umich.edu
> 734-929-9770


From fulner at gmail.com  Wed Dec 24 12:21:11 2008
From: fulner at gmail.com (Robert Jim Fulner)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 11:21:11 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] Battery memory issue
Message-ID: <c768576f0812240921l3f16c9c4l131b826c00ec1857@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings,

My wife has had her laptop about a year now. Even though I had
suggested otherwise she more or less has kept the machine plugged in
all the time.

Now that we are away on vacation the machine stays on for about 6
minutes not plugged in. Aside from buying a new battery, is there
anything we can do to improve functionality?

If it matters, she runs windoze vista home edition, and I boot DSL off
of usb when she's not looking. (she doesn't like me "penginizing" her
computer).

Jim

-- 
Sent from my mobile device


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Wed Dec 24 14:04:06 2008
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 14:04:06 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Battery memory issue
In-Reply-To: <c768576f0812240921l3f16c9c4l131b826c00ec1857@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c768576f0812240921l3f16c9c4l131b826c00ec1857@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380812241104o7598762ai6e2cac319ae658dc@mail.gmail.com>

 --- Robert Jim Fulner wrote:

> My wife has had her laptop about a year now. Even though I had
> suggested otherwise she more or less has kept the machine plugged in
> all the time.
> Now that we are away on vacation the machine stays on for about 6
> minutes not plugged in. Aside from buying a new battery, is there
> anything we can do to improve functionality?

Unfortunately, no.  Unlike the older nickel-cadmium (NiCd) batteries,
nickel-metal hydride (NiMH) and lithium-ion (Li-ion) batteries do NOT
exhibit memory effects -- dead is nearly always dead.  Except in
EXTREMELY rare instances, one a newer battery goes toes-up, there's
nothing that can restore it.  You may even find (especially with Li
batteries) that the battery itself has changed shape -- defective
cells often swell and cause noticeable bulging.

~~  Michael Rudas
    My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
    My blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Wed Dec 24 14:10:19 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 14:10:19 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Battery memory issue
In-Reply-To: <c768576f0812240921l3f16c9c4l131b826c00ec1857@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c768576f0812240921l3f16c9c4l131b826c00ec1857@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1230145819.10672.9.camel@peter-notebook.site>


On Wed, 2008-12-24 at 11:21 -0600, Robert Jim Fulner wrote:
> Greetings,
> 
> My wife has had her laptop about a year now. Even though I had
> suggested otherwise she more or less has kept the machine plugged in
> all the time.
> 
> Now that we are away on vacation the machine stays on for about 6
> minutes not plugged in. Aside from buying a new battery, is there
> anything we can do to improve functionality?
> 
> If it matters, she runs windoze vista home edition, and I boot DSL off
> of usb when she's not looking. (she doesn't like me "penginizing" her
> computer).
> 
> Jim

Dear Jim,
	From what I can see when I search "battery memory issues", you're wife
may have let the magic smoke escape the battery. Wikipedia says there
are many urban legends regarding reviving notebook batteries. These are
two of the sites that came up on the search
<http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm>,
<http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=91846> and they; as
well as almost all of the others; advise against leaving the battery in
while constantly connected. I feel your pain, I have one of those kind
of computers as well and I'm sure I'll be buying a new battery soon. I
usually "accidentally" unplug this notebook as a matter of course.
Matter of fact I think I'm going to do that right now.

Best Regards,

-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From tesral at comcast.net  Wed Dec 24 14:05:20 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 14:05:20 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Battery memory issue
In-Reply-To: <c768576f0812240921l3f16c9c4l131b826c00ec1857@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c768576f0812240921l3f16c9c4l131b826c00ec1857@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <495287F0.8080109@comcast.net>

Robert Jim Fulner wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> My wife has had her laptop about a year now. Even though I had
> suggested otherwise she more or less has kept the machine plugged in
> all the time.
>
> Now that we are away on vacation the machine stays on for about 6
> minutes not plugged in. Aside from buying a new battery, is there
> anything we can do to improve functionality?
>
> If it matters, she runs windoze vista home edition, and I boot DSL off
> of usb when she's not looking. (she doesn't like me "penginizing" her
> computer).
>   

We had one woman in DCG that was afraid of Linux, she actually cowered
away from a Knopix boot.  And this was someone that was once an active
Amiga user.

I don't do windows.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From peter at petertheplumber.net  Wed Dec 24 14:21:38 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 14:21:38 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Conditioned Behavior was Re:  Battery memory issue
In-Reply-To: <495287F0.8080109@comcast.net>
References: <c768576f0812240921l3f16c9c4l131b826c00ec1857@mail.gmail.com>
	<495287F0.8080109@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1230146498.10672.18.camel@peter-notebook.site>


On Wed, 2008-12-24 at 14:05 -0500, Garry Stahl wrote:
> Robert Jim Fulner wrote:
> > Greetings,
> >
> > My wife has had her laptop about a year now. Even though I had
> > suggested otherwise she more or less has kept the machine plugged in
> > all the time.
> >
> > Now that we are away on vacation the machine stays on for about 6
> > minutes not plugged in. Aside from buying a new battery, is there
> > anything we can do to improve functionality?
> >
> > If it matters, she runs windoze vista home edition, and I boot DSL off
> > of usb when she's not looking. (she doesn't like me "penginizing" her
> > computer).
> >   
> 
> We had one woman in DCG that was afraid of Linux, she actually cowered
> away from a Knopix boot.  And this was someone that was once an active
> Amiga user.
> 
> I don't do windows.

	I have my own snippet here. Our step daughter just came home with a new
cell phone wondering out loud how she was going to get music onto it.
Before I could even open my mouth she almost shouted it couldn't be done
with Linux because it said so right on the cd. So I copied a song to a
micro SD card, shoved it in her phone and played it for her.
	As an aside, I seem to have cemented my place as the crazy old man that
plays with penguins!

Best Regards,

-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From otakurider at gmail.com  Wed Dec 24 19:25:50 2008
From: otakurider at gmail.com (-)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 19:25:50 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] mondorescue fedora 10
Message-ID: <cd5131a50812241625x11b895a0k83657ea636703d6a@mail.gmail.com>

Anyone had good luck getting mindi/mondorescue installed from source on to
fedora 10 or do anyone have a location for the RPM.

During mindi built it tells me I need isolinux installed but the links seem
to be broke.


Thanks


From jjn at nuge.com  Sat Dec 27 10:24:17 2008
From: jjn at nuge.com (Jay Nugent)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 10:24:17 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Mac vs. Windows vs. Linux
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0812271023080.1067-100000@home.nuge.com>

Greetings,
   This was bound to happen...

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVOnFdMf0RU
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa1RCg-Ccp0


   Enjoy!
      --- Jay
             
In response to the issue about dumbing-down Amateur Radio, a fellow Ham 
said:    "Would you like fries with that emergency communication?"
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Jay Nugent   jjn at nuge.com    (734)484-5105    (734)649-0850/Cell       |
|   Nugent Telecommunications  [www.nuge.com]                            |
|   Internet Consulting/Linux SysAdmin/Engineering & Design/ISP Reseller |
| ISP Monitoring [www.ispmonitor.org] ISP & Modem Performance Monitoring |
| Web-Pegasus    [www.webpegasus.com] Web Hosting/DNS Hosting/Shell Accts|
| LinuxNIC, Inc. [www.linuxnic.net]   Registrar of the .linux TLD        |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 10:01am  up 27 days, 18:14,  4 users,  load average: 0.00, 0.02, 0.02




From tesral at comcast.net  Sat Dec 27 12:22:27 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 12:22:27 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Mac vs. Windows vs. Linux
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0812271023080.1067-100000@home.nuge.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0812271023080.1067-100000@home.nuge.com>
Message-ID: <49566453.7090408@comcast.net>

Jay Nugent wrote:
> Greetings,
>    This was bound to happen...
>
>       http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVOnFdMf0RU
>       http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa1RCg-Ccp0
>
>
>   

Those are ancient.  Cute, but ancient.


-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From drew4096 at gmail.com  Sun Dec 28 16:33:37 2008
From: drew4096 at gmail.com (Drew)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 16:33:37 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Hard drives
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20081228163137.02b7b610@pop.gmail.com>

Does anyone have anything good, bad, or ugly to say about this hard drive?

<http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0300550>

----

- Drew.



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Sun Dec 28 16:47:05 2008
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 16:47:05 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Hard drives
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20081228163137.02b7b610@pop.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20081228163137.02b7b610@pop.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8aa4d8e50812281347p3c5a424aq65724ca45625c1bf@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 4:33 PM, Drew <drew4096 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Does anyone have anything good, bad, or ugly to say about this hard drive?
>
> <http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0300550>
>

Not gonna work very well with the cover off and all sorts of gigantic
dust particles
10x bigger than the "flying height" of the heads getting between those heads
and the platters.

So, it's kind of expensive for a high-tech paperweight.
As a personal policy, I don't take the cover off until AFTER it's
stopped working.

:-)


From driveray at ameritech.net  Sun Dec 28 17:03:27 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 17:03:27 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Hard drives
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20081228163137.02b7b610@pop.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20081228163137.02b7b610@pop.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4957F7AF.40308@ameritech.net>

I never heard of Jupiter brand Hard drives before you pointed this out. 
A little googling found that they are produced by ExcelStor, apparently 
a new Chinese manufacturer <http://www.excelstor.com/en/index.asp>:

   ExcelStor Technology Ltd is a Hard Disk Drive Company found in the
   year of 2001. She manufactures her own hard disk drives in Shenzhen,
   China. She owns the state-of-art Clean room, Testing and Production
   facilities. The factory is managed by a team of professionals with
   at least a decade of disk drive manufacturing experience from USA,
   Singapore, Malaysia, etc. The factory is running with an objective
   of manufacturing excellence at all level of staff with uncompromising
   emphasis on quality performance. The factory has also a dedicated
   team of Continuation Engineering expertise who are focusing on
   continuous improvement of product performance, reliability and
   quality.

I wonder if calling the company "she" if purely a translation error, of 
if they are trying to appeal to the mostly male mind share in the tech 
market. :)

Drew wrote:
> Does anyone have anything good, bad, or ugly to say about this hard drive?
> 
> <http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0300550>
> 
> ----
> 
> - Drew.


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Sun Dec 28 17:27:20 2008
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 17:27:20 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Hard drives
In-Reply-To: <4957F7AF.40308@ameritech.net>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20081228163137.02b7b610@pop.gmail.com>
	<4957F7AF.40308@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <8aa4d8e50812281427g1d378e32g32a01e70a6bbc067@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 5:03 PM, Raymond McLaughlin
<driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
> I never heard of Jupiter brand Hard drives before you pointed this out.
> A little googling found that they are produced by ExcelStor, apparently
> a new Chinese manufacturer <http://www.excelstor.com/en/index.asp>:
>
>   ExcelStor Technology Ltd is a Hard Disk Drive Company found in the
>   year of 2001. She manufactures her own hard disk drives in Shenzhen,
>   China. She owns the state-of-art Clean room, Testing and Production
>   facilities. The factory is managed by a team of professionals with
>   at least a decade of disk drive manufacturing experience from USA,
>   Singapore, Malaysia, etc. The factory is running with an objective
>   of manufacturing excellence at all level of staff with uncompromising
>   emphasis on quality performance. The factory has also a dedicated
>   team of Continuation Engineering expertise who are focusing on
>   continuous improvement of product performance, reliability and
>   quality.
>
> I wonder if calling the company "she" if purely a translation error, of
> if they are trying to appeal to the mostly male mind share in the tech
> market. :)
>

Common translation error from over-gendered languages in which
even inanimate objects are male and female.


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Sun Dec 28 18:52:04 2008
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 18:52:04 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Hard drives
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20081228163137.02b7b610@pop.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20081228163137.02b7b610@pop.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380812281552r12673340q83278ab9156620ba@mail.gmail.com>

--- Drew wrote:

> Does anyone have anything good, bad, or ugly to say about this hard drive?
(ExelStor model J9250 "Jupiter 250")

As you may (or may not) know, I have been dealing with hard drives
since 1983 (even repairing several), so I'm pretty picky about HDs.

I bought one of these because it was IDE and cheap (~$45 out-the-door
sale price), then I researched the company.  As far as I can
determine, the management are mostly ex-IBM and Western Digital (the
"Jupiter" drive has EXACTLY the same geometry as the WD Caviar 250GB
IDE)  -- they have a U.S. R & D facility in MiniScribe's old Longmont
CO digs, and they have done OEM work for Hitachi Storage.

It's reasonably fast (7200 RPM spindle), runs quiet and cool, and
seems well-built.  I'm so pleased with it I bought another.  That's a
recommendation.

~~  Michael Rudas
    My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
    My blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com


From painbank at gmail.com  Mon Dec 29 09:42:12 2008
From: painbank at gmail.com (Rich Elswick)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 09:42:12 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Battery memory issue
In-Reply-To: <c768576f0812240921l3f16c9c4l131b826c00ec1857@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c768576f0812240921l3f16c9c4l131b826c00ec1857@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cafacd830812290642j4c575ea8ye39135ec30303999@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Jim,

If you want to know what the battery is capable of, then look at the
Amp-Hour (Ah) rating of the battery, then hook up a rig (seperate from the
laptop), use the appropriate charging and discharging strategy for you
battery type, charge it to 100% State of Charge (SOC), then dischage to to
0% SOC to get the present Ah rating of your battery.  NOTE: Monitor
everything very closely.  Perhaps even doing it in a detached garage,
perhaps even done outside.  Monitor the voltages and temperatures.  Then
after all that, look up the cost of a replacement battery and realize how
much time you just wasted and then buy a new one anyways. :)

DISCLAIMER: I am not responsible for anything you do based upon the
suggestions above, your actions are your own and therefore up for a
nominations to the Darwin Awards should something untoward happen.

Rich Elswick



On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 12:21 PM, Robert Jim Fulner <fulner at gmail.com>wrote:

> Greetings,
>
> My wife has had her laptop about a year now. Even though I had
> suggested otherwise she more or less has kept the machine plugged in
> all the time.
>
> Now that we are away on vacation the machine stays on for about 6
> minutes not plugged in. Aside from buying a new battery, is there
> anything we can do to improve functionality?
>
> If it matters, she runs windoze vista home edition, and I boot DSL off
> of usb when she's not looking. (she doesn't like me "penginizing" her
> computer).
>
> Jim
>
> --
> Sent from my mobile device
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>



-- 
Rich Elswick
http://www.moyaentertainment.com


From wolfger at gmail.com  Tue Dec 30 13:52:07 2008
From: wolfger at gmail.com (Wolfger)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 13:52:07 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Mac vs. Windows vs. Linux
In-Reply-To: <49566453.7090408@comcast.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0812271023080.1067-100000@home.nuge.com>
	<49566453.7090408@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <3b00b3330812301052o67529231h4c3d2f9560be666a@mail.gmail.com>

It's embarassing that they don't play properly on my Ubuntu box. Video
is choppy, sound isn't working right.


On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 12:22 PM, Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:
> Jay Nugent wrote:
>> Greetings,
>>    This was bound to happen...
>>
>>       http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVOnFdMf0RU
>>       http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa1RCg-Ccp0
>>
>>
>>
>
> Those are ancient.  Cute, but ancient.
>
>
> --
> Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.
>
> Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
> Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
> The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
> Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>



-- 
Wolfger
http://wolfger.wordpress.com/

The world is a mess, and I just... need to rule it.


From Stan at mcomputersolutions.com  Tue Dec 30 16:54:01 2008
From: Stan at mcomputersolutions.com (Stan Green)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 16:54:01 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Serializing ide controllers
Message-ID: <200812301654.01978.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>

I'm getting these errors like these in my system messages.

hdl: dma_intr: bad DMA status (dma_stat=75)
hdl: dma_intr: status=0x50 { DriveReady SeekComplete }
ide: failed opcode was: unknown

This is happening on more than one drive. (There are 11 drives in the system.)

A search of the internet turned up that trying serializing the ide controllers 
in the kernel parameters. The syntax suggested is:
ide0=serialize ide1=serialize ide2=serialize ide3=serialize ide4=serialize 
ide5=serialize

Given this, does this seem like a reasonable thing to do? If not, any other 
suggestions? Also what is the effect on performace by serializing?

Thanks,
Stan


From Stan at mcomputersolutions.com  Tue Dec 30 16:57:59 2008
From: Stan at mcomputersolutions.com (Stan Green)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 16:57:59 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Anyone using Darwin?
Message-ID: <200812301657.59546.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>

Is anyone using Darwin on Linux to stream mp4 videos on the web? I'm trying it 
out, but I'm not sure how to make it work.

Thanks,
Stan Green


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Tue Dec 30 22:39:40 2008
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 22:39:40 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Serializing ide controllers
In-Reply-To: <200812301654.01978.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
References: <200812301654.01978.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380812301939i4205ebf4t37b9acef9418012c@mail.gmail.com>

--- Stan Green wrote:

> I'm getting these errors like these in my system messages:
> hdl: dma_intr: bad DMA status (dma_stat=75)
> hdl: dma_intr: status=0x50 { DriveReady SeekComplete }
> ide: failed opcode was: unknown

> This is happening on more than one drive
>  (there are 11 drives in the system).

A search of the internet turned up trying to serialize the IDE
controllers in the kernel parameters. The syntax suggested is:
ide0=serialize ide1=serialize ide2=serialize ide3=serialize
ide4=serialize ide5=serialize

Given this, does this seem like a reasonable thing to do? If not, any
other suggestions? Also what is the effect on performance by
serializing?

You may find "smartmontools" useful here (it's in most repositories):
<http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net>

Due to the nature of IDE, if a drive is failing or otherwise balky the
problem is not always direct traceable to the faulty drive in a
multi-drive system.  The SMART tools may give you a better handle on
what's going on.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.M.A.R.T.>

~~ Michael Rudas
   My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
   My blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com


From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Tue Dec 30 23:05:22 2008
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Robert Meier)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 23:05:22 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Serializing ide controllers
In-Reply-To: <200812301654.01978.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com> (message from
	Stan Green on Tue, 30 Dec 2008 16:54:01 -0500)
References: <200812301654.01978.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <20081231040522.9B65F20AAAA@starfox.local>

Stan,

I hope the following, gleaned from google (not personal experience) will help.

> This is happening on more than one drive.
> (There are 11 drives in the system.)

An ordinary x386 machine has only 14 interrupts, (a limitation low enough
that has mandated programmer thriftiness from the 1980s).

Increases in cpu speed has reduced the time required to handle interrupts,
but increasing peripheral speed has increased the frequency of interrupts.
To date, cpu speed is clearly ahead, but losing its edge as processor
advances are slowed by physical limits, and peripheral speed catches up.

For typical systems with only 1 or two ide controllers, reserving typically
2 and sometimes an expensive 4 interrupts is sufficient to prevent any
drive requests from colliding.  With 11 drives, it is infeasible to reserve
an interrupt for each and frequent collisions are almost inevitable.


From mark at metrofindings.com  Wed Dec 31 10:31:30 2008
From: mark at metrofindings.com (Mark Kimsal)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 10:31:30 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Hard drives
Message-ID: <200812311031.30231.mark@metrofindings.com>



On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 17:27:20 -0500, "Aaron Kulkis" <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 5:03 PM, Raymond McLaughlin
> <driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
>> I never heard of Jupiter brand Hard drives before you pointed this out.
>> A little googling found that they are produced by ExcelStor, apparently
>> a new Chinese manufacturer <http://www.excelstor.com/en/index.asp>:
>>
>>   ExcelStor Technology Ltd is a Hard Disk Drive Company found in the
>>   year of 2001. She manufactures her own hard disk drives in Shenzhen,
>>   China. She owns the state-of-art Clean room, Testing and Production
>>   facilities. The factory is managed by a team of professionals with
>>   at least a decade of disk drive manufacturing experience from USA,
>>   Singapore, Malaysia, etc. The factory is running with an objective
>>   of manufacturing excellence at all level of staff with uncompromising
>>   emphasis on quality performance. The factory has also a dedicated
>>   team of Continuation Engineering expertise who are focusing on
>>   continuous improvement of product performance, reliability and
>>   quality.
>>
>> I wonder if calling the company "she" if purely a translation error, of
>> if they are trying to appeal to the mostly male mind share in the tech
>> market. :)
>>
> 
> Common translation error from over-gendered languages in which
> even inanimate objects are male and female.

That's usually for languages which have prominent gender, like romance 
languages and germanic languages.  Chinese has none, and English has gender 
limited to pronouns (and sometimes boats).  This is a common Chinese 
translation error because the pronouns - in mainland Chinese - "he", "she" 
and "it" are all pronounced the exact same ("ta"), the only difference is in 
the way they are written.  Getting he/she correct is really difficult for 
Chinese speakers because they don't have to think about those types of 
pronoun differences when speaking their own language.  Add to that, the fact 
that *sometimes* we refer to countries, ships, and cars as "she" or "her" 
(i.e. "her maiden voyage", "my homeland's mother tongue"), and you'll often 
hear Chinese people mixing up English he/she in everyday speech.

> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Dec 31 20:55:27 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 20:55:27 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Article: Hard to hear at holiday parties? Blame your brain
Message-ID: <b02c40e90812311755i238c03b8ya64177db1f3903e2@mail.gmail.com>

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081229/ap_on_he_me/sci_holiday_hearing_loss


From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Mon Dec  1 09:29:29 2008
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 09:29:29 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools
Message-ID: <268F49D5ADF245A0924E695327BE5CD8@AMD2000>

Lug nuts,

I'm looking for some recommendations, specifically for the CentOS 5.2 
distribution, for a centralized package management system or tools.  I've 
spent some time doing vaious Google searches, but haven't found what I was 
looking for aside from basic tools such as 'yum' and 'up2date', which are 
designed to run on a single host.  I was hoping that I would stumble upon 
some existing tools that could be leveraged in an existing environment.
What I would really like is:
* Gui tools (browser based).
* Internal centralized server (package repository).
* Centralized management (for development, QA, & production).
* Ability to schedule updates and manually push updates.
* Auditing capabilities (which servers have what packages installed).
* Ability to manage servers by group (e.g. Dev App servers).

Running 'yum -update' from cron on each server isn't a good strategy, 
especially when it comes to production systems.  I would like to have the 
capability to pull down patches to a centralized server, then push the 
patches/updates to the development/QA environment, and finally out to the 
production systems after testing is completed.
Is that too much to ask for.  :-)
Any suggestions/recommendations/ideas?

Thanks,
Mike 



From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Mon Dec  1 09:38:39 2008
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 09:38:39 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools
In-Reply-To: <268F49D5ADF245A0924E695327BE5CD8@AMD2000>
References: <268F49D5ADF245A0924E695327BE5CD8@AMD2000>
Message-ID: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06949009@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

Ah, the holy grail for CentOS/RHEL systems (aside from paying Red Hat
$13,000 a year for a satellite server!).

I am looking for the same thing (and I'm sure any other Linux Sysadmin
is) for years.  I'm still using the strategy of "install updates on dev
server, keep the rpm's that were downloaded, move them to test, then
production, and pray to God that the same packages are in sync across
all environments."  

Not very efficient.  I've been looking into building a yum server and
configuring the yum-updatesd to download the packages that I roll out.
A little better than using cron, but not by much.

I'd be interested to hear if you find anything.

Greg Wojtak

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Michael ORourke
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:29 AM
To: MDLUG's main mailing list
Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools

Lug nuts,

I'm looking for some recommendations, specifically for the CentOS 5.2 
distribution, for a centralized package management system or tools.
I've 
spent some time doing vaious Google searches, but haven't found what I
was 
looking for aside from basic tools such as 'yum' and 'up2date', which
are 
designed to run on a single host.  I was hoping that I would stumble
upon 
some existing tools that could be leveraged in an existing environment.
What I would really like is:
* Gui tools (browser based).
* Internal centralized server (package repository).
* Centralized management (for development, QA, & production).
* Ability to schedule updates and manually push updates.
* Auditing capabilities (which servers have what packages installed).
* Ability to manage servers by group (e.g. Dev App servers).

Running 'yum -update' from cron on each server isn't a good strategy, 
especially when it comes to production systems.  I would like to have
the 
capability to pull down patches to a centralized server, then push the 
patches/updates to the development/QA environment, and finally out to
the 
production systems after testing is completed.
Is that too much to ask for.  :-)
Any suggestions/recommendations/ideas?

Thanks,
Mike 

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Mon Dec  1 10:32:52 2008
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 10:32:52 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools
References: <268F49D5ADF245A0924E695327BE5CD8@AMD2000>
	<8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06949009@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
Message-ID: <BB748E0148D044A7B356D1327849B67A@AMD2000>

Here are some tools that I have found so far...

Auditing:
http://pakiti.sourceforge.net/

Yum/Apt repository tool:
http://dag.wieers.com/home-made/mrepo/

Install server:
https://fedorahosted.org/cobbler/

Centralized Package management:
http://current.tigris.org/

The last one, current, looks to be the most promising.  But it appears that 
it has not had any recent development for about 2 years now.  And with a 
project name of 'current', it's a bit difficult to find any additional info 
other than their own website.  :-)

-Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Wojtak, Greg
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools


Ah, the holy grail for CentOS/RHEL systems (aside from paying Red Hat
$13,000 a year for a satellite server!).

I am looking for the same thing (and I'm sure any other Linux Sysadmin
is) for years.  I'm still using the strategy of "install updates on dev
server, keep the rpm's that were downloaded, move them to test, then
production, and pray to God that the same packages are in sync across
all environments."

Not very efficient.  I've been looking into building a yum server and
configuring the yum-updatesd to download the packages that I roll out.
A little better than using cron, but not by much.

I'd be interested to hear if you find anything.

Greg Wojtak

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Michael ORourke
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:29 AM
To: MDLUG's main mailing list
Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools

Lug nuts,

I'm looking for some recommendations, specifically for the CentOS 5.2
distribution, for a centralized package management system or tools.
I've
spent some time doing vaious Google searches, but haven't found what I
was
looking for aside from basic tools such as 'yum' and 'up2date', which
are
designed to run on a single host.  I was hoping that I would stumble
upon
some existing tools that could be leveraged in an existing environment.
What I would really like is:
* Gui tools (browser based).
* Internal centralized server (package repository).
* Centralized management (for development, QA, & production).
* Ability to schedule updates and manually push updates.
* Auditing capabilities (which servers have what packages installed).
* Ability to manage servers by group (e.g. Dev App servers).

Running 'yum -update' from cron on each server isn't a good strategy,
especially when it comes to production systems.  I would like to have
the
capability to pull down patches to a centralized server, then push the
patches/updates to the development/QA environment, and finally out to
the
production systems after testing is completed.
Is that too much to ask for.  :-)
Any suggestions/recommendations/ideas?

Thanks,
Mike

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.12/1822 - Release Date: 12/1/2008 
8:23 AM 



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Mon Dec  1 14:45:21 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 14:45:21 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

A couple weeks ago, Windows XP stopped booting on my downstairs machine,
hanging when trying to load "MUP.sys". Since I only use it for games, I
wasn't too worried. I tried reinstalling a few times, without success.

This weekend I finally got time to take the computer apart and reseat
all the cables. Unfortunately, after that the computer refused to POST.
After some experimentation, I've determined that I can't boot if
anything's plugged into any of the SATA ports on the motherboard. I took
out the SATA adapters from my IDE drives and have them hooked up to the
IDE controller, but that means that my DVD burner has no port to hook
to. Still, I'm at least operational with Linux. Windows won't boot at
all, now it blue-screens even if the SATA controller is disabled.

(BTW, it's a good thing Ubuntu sets up the fstab to mount partitions
based on UUID instead of physical partition name. My drives went from
sda and sdb to hda and hdb, but everything worked fine anyway.)

 Anyway, I've started the warranty game, since I only bought the
motherboard in March. Microcenter.com sent me to ECS, and they are on
vacation until tomorrow. We'll see if they (as their warranty policy
seems to indicate) might try to send me back to Microcenter. :-/

Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                            (313) 227-2317

 "Naturally the common people don't want war... [but] it is always a
 simple matter to drag the people along... [T]ell them they are being
   attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and
  exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
                       - Hermann Goering
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Mon Dec  1 15:50:11 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 12:50:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

About a year ago I tried to install Windows XP on an ECS board with out success with SATA.  Linux did not like it either.  Now I stay away from ECS and use MSI, Intel, and ASUS.  I even installed a CD/DVD SATA drive for Suse Linux.  I know ECS makes a lot of boards but I know I can count on MSI, Intel, and ASUS.



________________________________
From: "Ingles, Raymond" <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com>
To: mdlug at mdlug.org
Sent: Monday, December 1, 2008 2:45:21 PM
Subject: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure

A couple weeks ago, Windows XP stopped booting on my downstairs machine,
hanging when trying to load "MUP.sys". Since I only use it for games, I
wasn't too worried. I tried reinstalling a few times, without success.

This weekend I finally got time to take the computer apart and reseat
all the cables. Unfortunately, after that the computer refused to POST.
After some experimentation, I've determined that I can't boot if
anything's plugged into any of the SATA ports on the motherboard. I took
out the SATA adapters from my IDE drives and have them hooked up to the
IDE controller, but that means that my DVD burner has no port to hook
to. Still, I'm at least operational with Linux. Windows won't boot at
all, now it blue-screens even if the SATA controller is disabled.

(BTW, it's a good thing Ubuntu sets up the fstab to mount partitions
based on UUID instead of physical partition name. My drives went from
sda and sdb to hda and hdb, but everything worked fine anyway.)

Anyway, I've started the warranty game, since I only bought the
motherboard in March. Microcenter.com sent me to ECS, and they are on
vacation until tomorrow. We'll see if they (as their warranty policy
seems to indicate) might try to send me back to Microcenter. :-/

Sincerely,

Ray Ingles                                            (313) 227-2317

"Naturally the common people don't want war... [but] it is always a
simple matter to drag the people along... [T]ell them they are being
   attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and
  exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
                       - Hermann Goering
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      


From thomas at redhat.com  Mon Dec  1 20:12:00 2008
From: thomas at redhat.com (thomas at redhat.com)
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 19:12:00 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools
In-Reply-To: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06949009@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
References: <268F49D5ADF245A0924E695327BE5CD8@AMD2000>
	<8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06949009@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
Message-ID: <49348B60.20009@redhat.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Look at Spacewalk, it's our community upstream project for Satellite.

http://www.redhat.com/spacewalk/

Wojtak, Greg wrote:
> Ah, the holy grail for CentOS/RHEL systems (aside from paying Red Hat
> $13,000 a year for a satellite server!).
>
> I am looking for the same thing (and I'm sure any other Linux Sysadmin
> is) for years.  I'm still using the strategy of "install updates on dev
> server, keep the rpm's that were downloaded, move them to test, then
> production, and pray to God that the same packages are in sync across
> all environments."
>
> Not very efficient.  I've been looking into building a yum server and
> configuring the yum-updatesd to download the packages that I roll out.
> A little better than using cron, but not by much.
>
> I'd be interested to hear if you find anything.
>
> Greg Wojtak
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
> Of Michael ORourke
> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:29 AM
> To: MDLUG's main mailing list
> Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools
>
> Lug nuts,
>
> I'm looking for some recommendations, specifically for the CentOS 5.2
> distribution, for a centralized package management system or tools.
> I've
> spent some time doing vaious Google searches, but haven't found what I
> was
> looking for aside from basic tools such as 'yum' and 'up2date', which
> are
> designed to run on a single host.  I was hoping that I would stumble
> upon
> some existing tools that could be leveraged in an existing environment.
> What I would really like is:
> * Gui tools (browser based).
> * Internal centralized server (package repository).
> * Centralized management (for development, QA, & production).
> * Ability to schedule updates and manually push updates.
> * Auditing capabilities (which servers have what packages installed).
> * Ability to manage servers by group (e.g. Dev App servers).
>
> Running 'yum -update' from cron on each server isn't a good strategy,
> especially when it comes to production systems.  I would like to have
> the
> capability to pull down patches to a centralized server, then push the
> patches/updates to the development/QA environment, and finally out to
> the
> production systems after testing is completed.
> Is that too much to ask for.  :-)
> Any suggestions/recommendations/ideas?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


- --
Thomas Cameron, RHCE, RHCX, CNE, MCSE, MCT
Solutions Architect Team Lead, Central Region
512-241-0774 office / 512-585-5631 cell / 512-857-1345 fax
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEARECAAYFAkk0i2AACgkQmzle50YHwaCeaQCeI0q7d8b1mfBS7WK9AXkavp+t
bFAAnj3DpayY3BLZsaT0N2tMeal+3PIr
=ir5P
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From z_mikowski at yahoo.com  Tue Dec  2 00:21:48 2008
From: z_mikowski at yahoo.com (Michael S. Mikowski)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 21:21:48 -0800
Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools
In-Reply-To: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06949009@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
References: <268F49D5ADF245A0924E695327BE5CD8@AMD2000>
	<8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06949009@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
Message-ID: <200812012121.48889.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>

cfengine?  I'm not sure of the feature set, but our systems group uses it for 
keeping configuration up to date for many hundreds of servers...

On Monday 01 December 2008 06:38:39 Wojtak, Greg wrote:
> Ah, the holy grail for CentOS/RHEL systems (aside from paying Red Hat
> $13,000 a year for a satellite server!).
>
> I am looking for the same thing (and I'm sure any other Linux Sysadmin
> is) for years.  I'm still using the strategy of "install updates on dev
> server, keep the rpm's that were downloaded, move them to test, then
> production, and pray to God that the same packages are in sync across
> all environments."
>
> Not very efficient.  I've been looking into building a yum server and
> configuring the yum-updatesd to download the packages that I roll out.
> A little better than using cron, but not by much.
>
> I'd be interested to hear if you find anything.
>
> Greg Wojtak
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
> Of Michael ORourke
> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:29 AM
> To: MDLUG's main mailing list
> Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools
>
> Lug nuts,
>
> I'm looking for some recommendations, specifically for the CentOS 5.2
> distribution, for a centralized package management system or tools.
> I've
> spent some time doing vaious Google searches, but haven't found what I
> was
> looking for aside from basic tools such as 'yum' and 'up2date', which
> are
> designed to run on a single host.  I was hoping that I would stumble
> upon
> some existing tools that could be leveraged in an existing environment.
> What I would really like is:
> * Gui tools (browser based).
> * Internal centralized server (package repository).
> * Centralized management (for development, QA, & production).
> * Ability to schedule updates and manually push updates.
> * Auditing capabilities (which servers have what packages installed).
> * Ability to manage servers by group (e.g. Dev App servers).
>
> Running 'yum -update' from cron on each server isn't a good strategy,
> especially when it comes to production systems.  I would like to have
> the
> capability to pull down patches to a centralized server, then push the
> patches/updates to the development/QA environment, and finally out to
> the
> production systems after testing is completed.
> Is that too much to ask for.  :-)
> Any suggestions/recommendations/ideas?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From mark at metrofindings.com  Tue Dec  2 10:07:44 2008
From: mark at metrofindings.com (Mark Kimsal)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 10:07:44 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools
In-Reply-To: <268F49D5ADF245A0924E695327BE5CD8@AMD2000>
References: <268F49D5ADF245A0924E695327BE5CD8@AMD2000>
Message-ID: <200812021007.44394.mark@metrofindings.com>

On Monday 01 December 08, Michael ORourke wrote:
> Lug nuts,
>
> I'm looking for some recommendations, specifically for the CentOS 5.2
> distribution, for a centralized package management system or tools.  I've
> spent some time doing vaious Google searches, but haven't found what I was
> looking for aside from basic tools such as 'yum' and 'up2date', which are
> designed to run on a single host.  
I know that urpmi has the ability to push package installation/updates across 
multiple hosts... but Mandriva is just a "newbie" OS.

> I was hoping that I would stumble upon 
> some existing tools that could be leveraged in an existing environment.
> What I would really like is:
> * Gui tools (browser based).
> * Internal centralized server (package repository).
> * Centralized management (for development, QA, & production).
> * Ability to schedule updates and manually push updates.
> * Auditing capabilities (which servers have what packages installed).
> * Ability to manage servers by group (e.g. Dev App servers).

Weird... they don't have stuff like that out?  Sounds pretty easy, except for 
the auditing, but not entirely impossible.   I'm already working on a virtual 
host configuration tool, I might be able to add in scheduled rpm installation 
too.  But, it would require a lot of planning and testing from other people.  
I think the biggest obstacle to an open source solution is lack of hardware: 
who has 10 servers they want to donate to test a new tool?  I can easily 
write something to modify apache, bind, postgres, and postfix config files on 
one machine... but I don't have a cluster of computers to make anything work 
across a cluster.


-- 
***************************************************************************
Electronic Mail is not secure, may not be read every day, and should not be 
used for urgent or sensitive issues.

Mark Kimsal
http://biz.metrofindings.com/
fax: 866-375-1590


From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Tue Dec  2 10:16:45 2008
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 10:16:45 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools
References: <268F49D5ADF245A0924E695327BE5CD8@AMD2000><8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06949009@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<49348B60.20009@redhat.com>
Message-ID: <36797E6B6EAA4086ACA44E24D55FA3DE@AMD2000>

Very cool!  Thanks for the link.  -Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: thomas at redhat.com 
  To: MDLUG's Main discussion list 
  Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 8:12 PM
  Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools


  -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
  Hash: SHA1

  Look at Spacewalk, it's our community upstream project for Satellite.

  http://www.redhat.com/spacewalk/

  Wojtak, Greg wrote:
  > Ah, the holy grail for CentOS/RHEL systems (aside from paying Red Hat
  > $13,000 a year for a satellite server!).
  >
  > I am looking for the same thing (and I'm sure any other Linux Sysadmin
  > is) for years.  I'm still using the strategy of "install updates on dev
  > server, keep the rpm's that were downloaded, move them to test, then
  > production, and pray to God that the same packages are in sync across
  > all environments."
  >
  > Not very efficient.  I've been looking into building a yum server and
  > configuring the yum-updatesd to download the packages that I roll out.
  > A little better than using cron, but not by much.
  >
  > I'd be interested to hear if you find anything.
  >
  > Greg Wojtak
  >
  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
  > Of Michael ORourke
  > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:29 AM
  > To: MDLUG's main mailing list
  > Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools
  >
  > Lug nuts,
  >
  > I'm looking for some recommendations, specifically for the CentOS 5.2
  > distribution, for a centralized package management system or tools.
  > I've
  > spent some time doing vaious Google searches, but haven't found what I
  > was
  > looking for aside from basic tools such as 'yum' and 'up2date', which
  > are
  > designed to run on a single host.  I was hoping that I would stumble
  > upon
  > some existing tools that could be leveraged in an existing environment.
  > What I would really like is:
  > * Gui tools (browser based).
  > * Internal centralized server (package repository).
  > * Centralized management (for development, QA, & production).
  > * Ability to schedule updates and manually push updates.
  > * Auditing capabilities (which servers have what packages installed).
  > * Ability to manage servers by group (e.g. Dev App servers).
  >
  > Running 'yum -update' from cron on each server isn't a good strategy,
  > especially when it comes to production systems.  I would like to have
  > the
  > capability to pull down patches to a centralized server, then push the
  > patches/updates to the development/QA environment, and finally out to
  > the
  > production systems after testing is completed.
  > Is that too much to ask for.  :-)
  > Any suggestions/recommendations/ideas?
  >
  > Thanks,
  > Mike
  >
  > _______________________________________________
  > mdlug mailing list
  > mdlug at mdlug.org
  > http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
  > _______________________________________________
  > mdlug mailing list
  > mdlug at mdlug.org
  > http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


  - --
  Thomas Cameron, RHCE, RHCX, CNE, MCSE, MCT
  Solutions Architect Team Lead, Central Region
  512-241-0774 office / 512-585-5631 cell / 512-857-1345 fax
  -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
  Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
  Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

  iEYEARECAAYFAkk0i2AACgkQmzle50YHwaCeaQCeI0q7d8b1mfBS7WK9AXkavp+t
  bFAAnj3DpayY3BLZsaT0N2tMeal+3PIr
  =ir5P
  -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
  _______________________________________________
  mdlug mailing list
  mdlug at mdlug.org
  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


------------------------------------------------------------------------------



  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 
  Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.12/1823 - Release Date: 12/1/2008 7:59 PM


From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Tue Dec  2 10:20:01 2008
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 10:20:01 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools
References: <268F49D5ADF245A0924E695327BE5CD8@AMD2000><8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06949009@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<200812012121.48889.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8C4AE515EB194378973C738B4CB0AAAD@AMD2000>

I was looking at that the other day.  Might be a little too much complexity 
for what I was looking for.  But I suppose it could be used to keep systems 
patched.  Thanks for the suggestion.

-Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Michael S. Mikowski
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 12:21 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools


cfengine?  I'm not sure of the feature set, but our systems group uses it 
for
keeping configuration up to date for many hundreds of servers...

On Monday 01 December 2008 06:38:39 Wojtak, Greg wrote:
> Ah, the holy grail for CentOS/RHEL systems (aside from paying Red Hat
> $13,000 a year for a satellite server!).
>
> I am looking for the same thing (and I'm sure any other Linux Sysadmin
> is) for years.  I'm still using the strategy of "install updates on dev
> server, keep the rpm's that were downloaded, move them to test, then
> production, and pray to God that the same packages are in sync across
> all environments."
>
> Not very efficient.  I've been looking into building a yum server and
> configuring the yum-updatesd to download the packages that I roll out.
> A little better than using cron, but not by much.
>
> I'd be interested to hear if you find anything.
>
> Greg Wojtak
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
> Of Michael ORourke
> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:29 AM
> To: MDLUG's main mailing list
> Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools
>
> Lug nuts,
>
> I'm looking for some recommendations, specifically for the CentOS 5.2
> distribution, for a centralized package management system or tools.
> I've
> spent some time doing vaious Google searches, but haven't found what I
> was
> looking for aside from basic tools such as 'yum' and 'up2date', which
> are
> designed to run on a single host.  I was hoping that I would stumble
> upon
> some existing tools that could be leveraged in an existing environment.
> What I would really like is:
> * Gui tools (browser based).
> * Internal centralized server (package repository).
> * Centralized management (for development, QA, & production).
> * Ability to schedule updates and manually push updates.
> * Auditing capabilities (which servers have what packages installed).
> * Ability to manage servers by group (e.g. Dev App servers).
>
> Running 'yum -update' from cron on each server isn't a good strategy,
> especially when it comes to production systems.  I would like to have
> the
> capability to pull down patches to a centralized server, then push the
> patches/updates to the development/QA environment, and finally out to
> the
> production systems after testing is completed.
> Is that too much to ask for.  :-)
> Any suggestions/recommendations/ideas?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.12/1823 - Release Date: 12/1/2008 
7:59 PM 



From john_re at fastmail.us  Wed Dec  3 06:46:24 2008
From: john_re at fastmail.us (john_re)
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 03:46:24 -0800
Subject: [mdlug] BerkeleyTIP Great progress VOIP November - Dec 6 = Improve
	VOIP
Message-ID: <1228304784.9864.1288012087@webmail.messagingengine.com>

We made GREAT progress with the November 1 meeting! :)  I really can't
believe how happy I am about it, & how far we advanced.

We went from in September having no online attendees,
to in October having 1 person remote on IRC, to in
November having 7 people around the US all in a VOIP conference!  It was
_fantastic_!  I was very impressed.  

I'm especially impressed with our online members, who basically took the
info I had in the VOIP data page, & found a conference #, set up a
conference, & got logged in, all while I was taking a short break!  :)

Besides two of us on VOIP in Berkeley, we had Oakland, San Fran, San
Jose, Washington state, & North Carolina.  Plus we had at least two
other person on IRC who didn't have time to get on VOIP.

It was so very enjoyable talking & listening to the guy in North
Carolina - he had a _very_ strong southern accent, & I _rarely_ get to
talk with someone with that accent.  It was so fun knowing I was
listening to someone who was _unmistakeably_ _not_ from the BayArea!

We had a UCB student join us on IRC from one of the dorms - he'd seen
the announcement I sent on the UCB SciPy list.

This is all doubly exciting, because I _still_ didn't even get the
announcements out until less than 24 hours before hand. Think how many
more people might see the announcement in time to join us if I get it
out 1 or two weeks ahead of time!

Good progress is me getting _this_ announcement out about 3 weeks
before the meeting to the BTIP groups.  My goal is to get announcements
to the "outside" mailing lists both this coming weekend (2 weeks) & the
following weekend (1 week ahead).  This will allow many more people to
schedule the December 6 meeting into their schedules.  :)

===================
December 6 Progress Opportunities:

Some things I might be doing:
Getting announcements out for the first (or first advanced) time to
Debian, GNU, FreeBSD, KDE, & maybe Ubuntu, Ekiga & Asterisk & 10
California LUG lists.

Based on discussion that we didn't have a way to see a list of who was
in the VOIP conference room, like in an IRC client, that is a possible
target for the December Programming party.  Maybe we can make some web
ap that can do that?  Or, some Python program which is like a IRC client
for VOIP conference rooms?  Perhaps we can modify the Ekiga sw?

Also, I'll try to notify the Ekiga & Asterisk people about this, in case
they'd like to help out.

Discussion might be about K-Ubuntu 8.10.

There's a new video from Christine Peterson about Open Source
Environment Sensing.  If you know of any new FSW videos, please email me
or the list so I can put them on the BTIPG video page.

Any comments or questions?      Hope to see you in person in Berkeley,
or VOIP conference with you all on Sat Dec 6.  :)

http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Wed Dec  3 12:58:31 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 12:58:31 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure
In-Reply-To: <834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: David Lane

> About a year ago I tried to install Windows XP on an ECS board with
out
> success with SATA.  Linux did not like it either.  Now I stay away
from
> ECS and use MSI, Intel, and ASUS.  I even installed a CD/DVD SATA
drive
> for Suse Linux.  I know ECS makes a lot of boards but I know I can
count
> on MSI, Intel, and ASUS.

 Well, ECS's warranty dept is slow to respond, but we'll see. In the
meantime, I hooked up my DVD-RW drive via my IDE-to-USB adapter, but
it's surprisingly slow. I've got it connected via USB 2.0, and I've
definitely gotten USB 2.0 speeds with hard drives before, but backing up
a DVD last night took about two hours instead of ~20 minutes. It could
also play a movie fine from the start, but slowed down to less than
realtime in a few minutes.

 Running a script to convert the movie to DIVX for my Treo, it started
out at 87fps, but quickly dropped to ~23fps. Has anyone else seen such
behavior?

Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                  (313) 227-2317

 "There are two kinds of people; those who finish what they
               start and so on." - Anonymous
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  3 13:10:25 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 10:10:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <688846.17218.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

A show of hands:

   Who is happy with MSI MotherBoards?

   Who is happy with Intel MotherBoards?

  Who is happy with ASUS MotherBoards?


Even if it is free I might not use it because I dont have time to mess with a board that is difficult to work with.

David C. Lane 



________________________________
From: "Ingles, Raymond" <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 3, 2008 12:58:31 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure

> From: David Lane

> About a year ago I tried to install Windows XP on an ECS board with
out
> success with SATA.  Linux did not like it either.  Now I stay away
from
> ECS and use MSI, Intel, and ASUS.  I even installed a CD/DVD SATA
drive
> for Suse Linux.  I know ECS makes a lot of boards but I know I can
count
> on MSI, Intel, and ASUS.

Well, ECS's warranty dept is slow to respond, but we'll see. In the
meantime, I hooked up my DVD-RW drive via my IDE-to-USB adapter, but
it's surprisingly slow. I've got it connected via USB 2.0, and I've
definitely gotten USB 2.0 speeds with hard drives before, but backing up
a DVD last night took about two hours instead of ~20 minutes. It could
also play a movie fine from the start, but slowed down to less than
realtime in a few minutes.

Running a script to convert the movie to DIVX for my Treo, it started
out at 87fps, but quickly dropped to ~23fps. Has anyone else seen such
behavior?

Sincerely,

Ray Ingles                                  (313) 227-2317

"There are two kinds of people; those who finish what they
               start and so on." - Anonymous
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  3 13:11:32 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 10:11:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<688846.17218.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <647403.51558.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

ECS board that is 




________________________________
From: David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 3, 2008 1:10:25 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure

A show of hands:

   Who is happy with MSI MotherBoards?

   Who is happy with Intel MotherBoards?

  Who is happy with ASUS MotherBoards?


Even if it is free I might not use it because I dont have time to mess with a board that is difficult to work with.

David C. Lane 



________________________________
From: "Ingles, Raymond" <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 3, 2008 12:58:31 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure

> From: David Lane

> About a year ago I tried to install Windows XP on an ECS board with
out
> success with SATA.  Linux did not like it either.  Now I stay away
from
> ECS and use MSI, Intel, and ASUS.  I even installed a CD/DVD SATA
drive
> for Suse Linux.  I know ECS makes a lot of boards but I know I can
count
> on MSI, Intel, and ASUS.

Well, ECS's warranty dept is slow to respond, but we'll see. In the
meantime, I hooked up my DVD-RW drive via my IDE-to-USB adapter, but
it's surprisingly slow. I've got it connected via USB 2.0, and I've
definitely gotten USB 2.0 speeds with hard drives before, but backing up
a DVD last night took about two hours instead of ~20 minutes. It could
also play a movie fine from the start, but slowed down to less than
realtime in a few minutes.

Running a script to convert the movie to DIVX for my Treo, it started
out at 87fps, but quickly dropped to ~23fps. Has anyone else seen such
behavior?

Sincerely,

Ray Ingles                                  (313) 227-2317

"There are two kinds of people; those who finish what they
               start and so on." - Anonymous
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Dec  3 15:13:09 2008
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 15:13:09 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure
In-Reply-To: <688846.17218.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<688846.17218.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4936E855.5070903@gmail.com>

David Lane wrote:
> A show of hands:
> 
>    Who is happy with MSI MotherBoards?

Had only one.  Problematic.

> 
>    Who is happy with Intel MotherBoards?
>
Never had one

>   Who is happy with ASUS MotherBoards?

Personally, I've had good success with motherboards from
a company called DFI (back in the 1990's, althought a guy
at the shop (Stone Computer) said they had problems with
them.

My last couple of motherboards have by Gigabyte.
Not a problem with either one.

My HP dv8330us laptop has been more of a pain (primarily
the touchpad spuriously taking input when I'm typing as
a deliberate tap, and moving the typing cursor to wherever
the mouse-cursor is located -- annoyance to no end, as
this usually happens when I'm ... answering e-mail.

In fact, it happened twice while typing this reply.

> 
> 
> Even if it is free I might not use it because I dont have time to mess with a board that is difficult to work with.
> 
> David C. Lane 
>


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Dec  3 15:29:35 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 15:29:35 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure
In-Reply-To: <4936E855.5070903@gmail.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<688846.17218.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4936E855.5070903@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90812031229j4b263565paf15ba1eeb3e4126@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 3:13 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Personally, I've had good success with motherboards from
> a company called DFI (back in the 1990's, althought a guy
> at the shop (Stone Computer) said they had problems with
> them.
>
> My last couple of motherboards have by Gigabyte.
> Not a problem with either one.

I've used a lot of brands/models over the years and had little
problems outside of bad caps.  I usually don't overclock.  The last
Gigabyte model I bought was a GA-MA770-DS3 for my AMD Phenom 9550
system.  The system has been very unstable.  The first MB/CPU/RAM was
sent back and replaced.  The replacements have been marginally better
but I still get occasional RAM corruption and have to power cycle the
system to correct it.  Since the CPU has an integrated memory
controller I don't know who to blame yet.  I waiting for a new ASUS
M3A78-EM to arrive to see if it works better.

> My HP dv8330us laptop has been more of a pain (primarily
> the touchpad spuriously taking input when I'm typing as
> a deliberate tap, and moving the typing cursor to wherever
> the mouse-cursor is located -- annoyance to no end, as
> this usually happens when I'm ... answering e-mail.

Does that use a Synaptics touchpad?
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=271052


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Wed Dec  3 15:46:37 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 15:46:37 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90812031229j4b263565paf15ba1eeb3e4126@mail.gmail.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp><834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com><319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp><688846.17218.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4936E855.5070903@gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90812031229j4b263565paf15ba1eeb3e4126@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24E@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Jeff Hanson

> I've used a lot of brands/models over the years and had little
> problems outside of bad caps.  I usually don't overclock.

 Just to be clear: I don't overclock, and whatever the problem with this
motherboard, it wasn't caused by overclocking. I haven't seen any
*visibly* bad caps, but...

Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                    (313) 227-2317

 "Many people would sooner die than think. In fact, they do."
                    - Bertrand Russell
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  3 16:05:31 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 13:05:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp><834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com><319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp><688846.17218.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4936E855.5070903@gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90812031229j4b263565paf15ba1eeb3e4126@mail.gmail.com>
	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24E@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <470201.90514.qm@web37902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

For installation and operations I gravitate to motherboards that give good performance.  

Early XP did not work well with SATA/SATA II BUT you can stop installation and load a driver from a floppy.

With Linux I have not really had problems loading the OS.  Except for that ECS board that I got from Fry's when I bought an E6600 Intel CPU.  I solved the problem by getting an MSI board.

For My Linux Note book computer the Wifi cards did not work until I got a 3COM card.

There is a reason I concluded that the ECS board was free, It might have had issues.

David 
  





________________________________
From: "Ingles, Raymond" <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 3, 2008 3:46:37 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure

> From: Jeff Hanson

> I've used a lot of brands/models over the years and had little
> problems outside of bad caps.  I usually don't overclock.

Just to be clear: I don't overclock, and whatever the problem with this
motherboard, it wasn't caused by overclocking. I haven't seen any
*visibly* bad caps, but...

Sincerely,

Ray Ingles                                    (313) 227-2317

"Many people would sooner die than think. In fact, they do."
                    - Bertrand Russell
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      


From tesral at comcast.net  Wed Dec  3 16:22:55 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 16:22:55 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure
In-Reply-To: <4936E855.5070903@gmail.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<688846.17218.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4936E855.5070903@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4936F8AF.2020800@comcast.net>


My current board is a XFX intel chip board.  No problem with it at all. 
Five SATA controllers of which two are in use.  I have an IDE DVD-ROM.

I can say nothing but good of the board.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Dec  3 16:36:48 2008
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 16:36:48 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90812031229j4b263565paf15ba1eeb3e4126@mail.gmail.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<688846.17218.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<4936E855.5070903@gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90812031229j4b263565paf15ba1eeb3e4126@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4936FBF0.1010201@gmail.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 3:13 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Personally, I've had good success with motherboards from
>> a company called DFI (back in the 1990's, althought a guy
>> at the shop (Stone Computer) said they had problems with
>> them.
>>
>> My last couple of motherboards have by Gigabyte.
>> Not a problem with either one.
> 
> I've used a lot of brands/models over the years and had little
> problems outside of bad caps.  I usually don't overclock.  The last

Yes.  Overclocking is asking for trouble.

Most over-clockers don't seem to understand how the electronics
industry works:

The do NOT set out to make a patch of parts to a specific
set of electrical specifications.  Instead, they make a bunch
of devices (resistors, capacitors, chips, whatever...) and
then TEST whatever comes out of the manufacturing process,
to see what specifications it meets.

In other words, if a CPU is in a 2.2 GHz box, that's because
it FAILED to run flawlessly when they cranked up the clock
to 2.33 GHz.


> Gigabyte model I bought was a GA-MA770-DS3 for my AMD Phenom 9550
> system.  The system has been very unstable.  The first MB/CPU/RAM was
> sent back and replaced.  The replacements have been marginally better
> but I still get occasional RAM corruption and have to power cycle the
> system to correct it.  Since the CPU has an integrated memory
> controller I don't know who to blame yet.  I waiting for a new ASUS
> M3A78-EM to arrive to see if it works better.

Wow, that sounds annoying.

> 
>> My HP dv8330us laptop has been more of a pain (primarily
>> the touchpad spuriously taking input when I'm typing as
>> a deliberate tap, and moving the typing cursor to wherever
>> the mouse-cursor is located -- annoyance to no end, as
>> this usually happens when I'm ... answering e-mail.
> 
> Does that use a Synaptics touchpad?

Yes, I believe so.

> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=271052

Ah.  Thank you!

pretty braindamaged thread though -- and overly gnome-ified. (UGH!)

1.  All he needed to do was say to put

	 syndaemon -i 1 -d

    in the GUI startup script

2. Obviously, the OP didn't read the man page all that well,
because the primary problem during typing is errant TAPS,
which is specifically addressed by the -t flag (while still
preserving the ability to do mouse-movements immediately
without waiting for the 1-second time-out; and -k and -K flags
address the needed to preserve the use of modifier keys (ctrl,
shift, etc.) when using the mouse without inducing the delay.

>From the man page:

SYNTAX
	syndaemon [-i idle-time] [-d] [-p pid-file] [-t] [-k] [-K]

DESCRIPTION
	Disabling the touchpad while  typing  avoids  unwanted
	movements  of  the pointer that could lead to giving
	focus to the wrong window.  This program needs
	SHMConfig "on" in your XOrg/XFree86 Synaptics Touchpad
	configuration.

OPTIONS
	-i <idle-time>
	      How  many  seconds to wait after the last key press
	      before enabling the touchpad.  (default is 2.0s).

	-d    Start as a daemon, ie in the background.


	-p <pid-file>
              Create a pid file with the specified filename.
	      A pid file will only be created if the program
	      is started in daemon mode.

	-t    Only disable tapping and scrolling, not mouse
	      movements, in response to keyboard activity.

	-k    Ignore modifier keys when monitoring keyboard activity.

	-K    Like -k but also ignore Modifier+Key combos.


Therefore:

 syndaemon -i 1 -d -t -K


Anyways, with KDE, I didn't even have to restart my desktop.
I just started the deamon, and syndaemon took effect immediately!




From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Dec  3 16:51:29 2008
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 16:51:29 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure
In-Reply-To: <4936FBF0.1010201@gmail.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<688846.17218.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<4936E855.5070903@gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90812031229j4b263565paf15ba1eeb3e4126@mail.gmail.com>
	<4936FBF0.1010201@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4936FF61.8020108@gmail.com>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> Jeff Hanson wrote:
>> On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 3:13 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Personally, I've had good success with motherboards from
>>> a company called DFI (back in the 1990's, althought a guy
>>> at the shop (Stone Computer) said they had problems with
>>> them.
>>>
>>> My last couple of motherboards have by Gigabyte.
>>> Not a problem with either one.
>>
>> I've used a lot of brands/models over the years and had little
>> problems outside of bad caps.  I usually don't overclock.  The last
> 
> Yes.  Overclocking is asking for trouble.
> 
> Most over-clockers don't seem to understand how the electronics
> industry works:
> 
> The do NOT set out to make a patch of parts to a specific
> set of electrical specifications.  Instead, they make a bunch
> of devices (resistors, capacitors, chips, whatever...) and
> then TEST whatever comes out of the manufacturing process,
> to see what specifications it meets.
> 
> In other words, if a CPU is in a 2.2 GHz box, that's because
> it FAILED to run flawlessly when they cranked up the clock
> to 2.33 GHz.
> 
> 
>> Gigabyte model I bought was a GA-MA770-DS3 for my AMD Phenom 9550
>> system.  The system has been very unstable.  The first MB/CPU/RAM was
>> sent back and replaced.  The replacements have been marginally better
>> but I still get occasional RAM corruption and have to power cycle the
>> system to correct it.  Since the CPU has an integrated memory
>> controller I don't know who to blame yet.  I waiting for a new ASUS
>> M3A78-EM to arrive to see if it works better.
> 
> Wow, that sounds annoying.
> 
>>
>>> My HP dv8330us laptop has been more of a pain (primarily
>>> the touchpad spuriously taking input when I'm typing as
>>> a deliberate tap, and moving the typing cursor to wherever
>>> the mouse-cursor is located -- annoyance to no end, as
>>> this usually happens when I'm ... answering e-mail.
>>
>> Does that use a Synaptics touchpad?
> 
> Yes, I believe so.
> 
>> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=271052
> 
> Ah.  Thank you!
> 
> pretty braindamaged thread though -- and overly gnome-ified. (UGH!)
> 
> 1.  All he needed to do was say to put
> 
>      syndaemon -i 1 -d
> 
>    in the GUI startup script
> 
> 2. Obviously, the OP didn't read the man page all that well,
> because the primary problem during typing is errant TAPS,
> which is specifically addressed by the -t flag (while still
> preserving the ability to do mouse-movements immediately
> without waiting for the 1-second time-out; and -k and -K flags
> address the needed to preserve the use of modifier keys (ctrl,
> shift, etc.) when using the mouse without inducing the delay.
> 
>  From the man page:
> 
> SYNTAX
>     syndaemon [-i idle-time] [-d] [-p pid-file] [-t] [-k] [-K]
> 
> DESCRIPTION
>     Disabling the touchpad while  typing  avoids  unwanted
>     movements  of  the pointer that could lead to giving
>     focus to the wrong window.  This program needs
>     SHMConfig "on" in your XOrg/XFree86 Synaptics Touchpad
>     configuration.
> 
> OPTIONS
>     -i <idle-time>
>           How  many  seconds to wait after the last key press
>           before enabling the touchpad.  (default is 2.0s).
> 
>     -d    Start as a daemon, ie in the background.
> 
> 
>     -p <pid-file>
>              Create a pid file with the specified filename.
>           A pid file will only be created if the program
>           is started in daemon mode.
> 
>     -t    Only disable tapping and scrolling, not mouse
>           movements, in response to keyboard activity.
> 
>     -k    Ignore modifier keys when monitoring keyboard activity.
> 
>     -K    Like -k but also ignore Modifier+Key combos.
> 
> 
> Therefore:
> 
> syndaemon -i 1 -d -t -K
> 
> 
> Anyways, with KDE, I didn't even have to restart my desktop.
> I just started the deamon, and syndaemon took effect immediately!
> 
> 

Oh, added note:then

For KDE users, open a window, and copy/paste the
following commands into it.

$ cd ~/.kde/Autostart
$ mkdir ~/bin		# if you don't have one already.
$ F=~/bin/tame_touchpad
$ touch $F	# bring script file's path into existance 
$ chmod 755 $F		# set the proper mode
$ ln -s $F .		# now link it
$ cat > $F		# now write the script
#!/bin/bash

# synaptics touchpad deamon
# -d deamon mode
# -t while typing, noise-filter touchpad taps
# -K don't filter use of modifier keys + mouse-movement
# -i 1   interval from typing to touchpad use: 1 second
syndaemon -d -t -K -i 1

# manually type ctrl-D here

$ ./tame_touchpad




Or, without without the prompts, so you can just paste
it as one giant blob:


cd ~/.kde/Autostart
mkdir ~/bin
F=~/bin/tame_touchpad
touch $F
chmod 755 $F
ln -s $F .
cat > $F
#!/bin/bash

# synaptics touchpad deamon
# -d deamon mode
# -t while typing, noise-filter touchpad taps
# -K don't filter use of modifier keys + mouse-movement
# -i 1   interval from typing to touchpad use: 1 second
syndaemon -d -t -K -i 1


# now type ctrl-D and run the command ./tame_touchpad


From Stan at mcomputersolutions.com  Wed Dec  3 16:57:11 2008
From: Stan at mcomputersolutions.com (Stan Green)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 16:57:11 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Gigabit Ethernet - Worth it?
Message-ID: <200812031657.11234.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>

Oh ye experts of the network....

I do a lot of data transfer of large files (4gb - 40gb ) and large sets of 
data (100gb+). These transfers take some time. I'm thinking of upgrading some 
of the network to Gigabit Ethernet. I've read conflicting information about 
Gigabit Ethernet; some say it is faster and some say the PC is the 
bottleneck. My PC's tend to be a few (3-5) years old. I transfer data over 
both NFS and Samba. Most of the large files go over Samba. If I replace the 
NIC cards, cables and hub, should I expect to see a BIG difference in 
transfer speed?

Thanks,
Stan


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Dec  3 18:37:36 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 18:37:36 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Gigabit Ethernet - Worth it?
In-Reply-To: <200812031657.11234.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
References: <200812031657.11234.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90812031537i6eeb3be6r31086efb473703f2@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 4:57 PM, Stan Green <Stan at mcomputersolutions.com> wrote:
> Oh ye experts of the network....
>
> I do a lot of data transfer of large files (4gb - 40gb ) and large sets of
> data (100gb+). These transfers take some time. I'm thinking of upgrading some
> of the network to Gigabit Ethernet. I've read conflicting information about
> Gigabit Ethernet; some say it is faster and some say the PC is the
> bottleneck. My PC's tend to be a few (3-5) years old. I transfer data over
> both NFS and Samba. Most of the large files go over Samba. If I replace the
> NIC cards, cables and hub, should I expect to see a BIG difference in
> transfer speed?

It depends on where the bottlenecks are.  If it's your network then it
will help.  Using jumbo frames can also improve transfer rates but
your routers must be able to use them also.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumbo_Frame


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Wed Dec  3 19:44:09 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 19:44:09 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Gigabit Ethernet - Worth it?
In-Reply-To: <200812031657.11234.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
References: <200812031657.11234.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <1228351449.5031.10.camel@peter-notebook.site>


On Wed, 2008-12-03 at 16:57 -0500, Stan Green wrote:
> Oh ye experts of the network....
> 
> I do a lot of data transfer of large files (4gb - 40gb ) and large sets of 
> data (100gb+). These transfers take some time. I'm thinking of upgrading some 
> of the network to Gigabit Ethernet. I've read conflicting information about 
> Gigabit Ethernet; some say it is faster and some say the PC is the 
> bottleneck. My PC's tend to be a few (3-5) years old. I transfer data over 
> both NFS and Samba. Most of the large files go over Samba. If I replace the 
> NIC cards, cables and hub, should I expect to see a BIG difference in 
> transfer speed?

FWIW
	I just completed my small home network which is comprised of gigabit
devices and cables. If I can run some sort of data transfer to give you
an idea of the speed, I'd be more than happy to. If you're interested
I'll detail what I have and how it's wired.

Best Regards,
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From driveray at ameritech.net  Wed Dec  3 19:44:20 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 19:44:20 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure
In-Reply-To: <4936FBF0.1010201@gmail.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<688846.17218.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<4936E855.5070903@gmail.com>	<b02c40e90812031229j4b263565paf15ba1eeb3e4126@mail.gmail.com>
	<4936FBF0.1010201@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <493727E4.6070905@ameritech.net>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:

> Yes.  Overclocking is asking for trouble.
> 
> Most over-clockers don't seem to understand how the electronics
> industry works:
> 
> The do NOT set out to make a patch of parts to a specific
> set of electrical specifications.  Instead, they make a bunch
> of devices (resistors, capacitors, chips, whatever...) and
> then TEST whatever comes out of the manufacturing process,
> to see what specifications it meets.
> 
> In other words, if a CPU is in a 2.2 GHz box, that's because
> it FAILED to run flawlessly when they cranked up the clock
> to 2.33 GHz.

Not necessarily true. It is my understanding that they do not set out to 
make parts of each specific speed rating, They do set out to make parts 
that will fall within a specific range. A part marked as 2.2 GHz will 
have passed testing at that speed. It may, or may not have been test at 
higher speeds. If they already have as many 2.33GHz, or higher, chips as 
they expect to sell within a given time frame, then they just don't 
bother testing at higher speeds. If they are getting good yields you 
chip might, or might not, be able to function at a higher speed than it 
is marked.

I have long thought that, if they really cared about overclockers, they 
could use tiny fusible links or other irreversible indicators of the 
maximum speed a chip had been run at.




From micorral at comcast.net  Thu Dec  4 00:26:52 2008
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 00:26:52 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure
In-Reply-To: <688846.17218.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<688846.17218.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0812040022080.2451@banana.sluggo.net>

2008-12-03, Monsieur David Lane a ecrit:
>   Who is happy with MSI MotherBoards?

I'm using one now: K8T Neo2 v2.0 (MS-7094). I like it, it's been great.

>   Who is happy with Intel MotherBoards?

I've used several at work, they were decent, no problems.

>  Who is happy with ASUS MotherBoards?

I've never used one.

My favorite mobos have been Tyan. Rock solid, never any problems.

Michael


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Thu Dec  4 07:49:24 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 07:49:24 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure
In-Reply-To: <493727E4.6070905@ameritech.net>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<688846.17218.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<4936E855.5070903@gmail.com>	<b02c40e90812031229j4b263565paf15ba1eeb3e4126@mail.gmail.com><4936FBF0.1010201@gmail.com>
	<493727E4.6070905@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B250@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Raymond McLaughlin

> Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> > In other words, if a CPU is in a 2.2 GHz box, that's because
> > it FAILED to run flawlessly when they cranked up the clock
> > to 2.33 GHz.
> 
> Not necessarily true. It is my understanding that they do not set out
to
> make parts of each specific speed rating, They do set out to make
parts
> that will fall within a specific range. A part marked as 2.2 GHz will
> have passed testing at that speed. It may, or may not have been test
at
> higher speeds.

 Then there are the occasional cases like the Macintosh IIsi. Sold
running at 20MHz, but was designed as a 25MHz machine. (Apple didn't
want it to cut into sales of the IIci, which ran at 25MHz.) So a simple
bit of soldering to put in a new clock chip, and the machine was running
at 125%, with no stability issues at all.

Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                           (313) 227-2317

 "Capitalism works primarily because most of the ways that a company
  can be scum end up being extremely bad for business when there's
                   working competition." -rra
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Thu Dec  4 09:40:07 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 06:40:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] BEST SYSTEM CONFIG ? (ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA
	controller failure)
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<688846.17218.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0812040022080.2451@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <418007.24579.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

To save people heart burn how about posting on the web site once a quarter successful system configurations.

I don't think I'm the only one to be a fan of what work, and what works well.


David C. Lane 






________________________________
From: Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 12:26:52 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure

2008-12-03, Monsieur David Lane a ecrit:
>   Who is happy with MSI MotherBoards?

I'm using one now: K8T Neo2 v2.0 (MS-7094). I like it, it's been great.

>   Who is happy with Intel MotherBoards?

I've used several at work, they were decent, no problems.

>  Who is happy with ASUS MotherBoards?

I've never used one.

My favorite mobos have been Tyan. Rock solid, never any problems.

Michael
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Thu Dec  4 09:42:38 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 06:42:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] BEST SYSTEM CONFIG ? (ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA
	controller failure)
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<688846.17218.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0812040022080.2451@banana.sluggo.net>
	<418007.24579.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <311924.82235.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Or a "Successful Build Section." 

David C. Lane




________________________________
From: David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 9:40:07 AM
Subject: [mdlug] BEST SYSTEM CONFIG ? (ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure)

To save people heart burn how about posting on the web site once a quarter successful system configurations.

I don't think I'm the only one to be a fan of what work, and what works well.


David C. Lane 






________________________________
From: Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 12:26:52 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure

2008-12-03, Monsieur David Lane a ecrit:
>   Who is happy with MSI MotherBoards?

I'm using one now: K8T Neo2 v2.0 (MS-7094). I like it, it's been great.

>   Who is happy with Intel MotherBoards?

I've used several at work, they were decent, no problems.

>  Who is happy with ASUS MotherBoards?

I've never used one.

My favorite mobos have been Tyan. Rock solid, never any problems.

Michael
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Thu Dec  4 12:05:27 2008
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 12:05:27 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B250@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<688846.17218.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<4936E855.5070903@gmail.com>	<b02c40e90812031229j4b263565paf15ba1eeb3e4126@mail.gmail.com><4936FBF0.1010201@gmail.com>	<493727E4.6070905@ameritech.net>
	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B250@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <49380DD7.8000003@gmail.com>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>> From: Raymond McLaughlin
> 
>> Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>>> In other words, if a CPU is in a 2.2 GHz box, that's because
>>> it FAILED to run flawlessly when they cranked up the clock
>>> to 2.33 GHz.
>> Not necessarily true. It is my understanding that they do not set out
> to
>> make parts of each specific speed rating, They do set out to make
> parts
>> that will fall within a specific range. A part marked as 2.2 GHz will
>> have passed testing at that speed. It may, or may not have been test
> at
>> higher speeds.
> 
>  Then there are the occasional cases like the Macintosh IIsi. Sold
> running at 20MHz, but was designed as a 25MHz machine. (Apple didn't
> want it to cut into sales of the IIci, which ran at 25MHz.) So a simple
> bit of soldering to put in a new clock chip, and the machine was running
> at 125%, with no stability issues at all.

In any event, it was in fact a 20 MHz machine as sold.
Just like a Ford with a 383ci engine in it was in fact a
383 vehicle, even though you could drop in a 454ci engine.

> 
> Sincerely,
> 
>  Ray Ingles                                           (313) 227-2317
> 
>  "Capitalism works primarily because most of the ways that a company
>   can be scum end up being extremely bad for business when there's
>                    working competition." -rra

And that's why, in the long run, capitalism is friendlier
to "the little guy" than socialism.

In socialism, scummy companies can (and often do) continue
on indefinitely with government subsidies.  Krupp (of German
steel and warmaking fame) is a good example -- even while
doing rather nice things for their employees, Krupp became
quite scummy by the late 1800's.


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Thu Dec  4 12:06:30 2008
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 12:06:30 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] BEST SYSTEM CONFIG ? (ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA
 controller failure)
In-Reply-To: <418007.24579.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<688846.17218.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0812040022080.2451@banana.sluggo.net>
	<418007.24579.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49380E16.1030405@gmail.com>

David Lane wrote:
> To save people heart burn how about posting on the web site once a quarter successful system configurations.
> 
> I don't think I'm the only one to be a fan of what work, and what works well.
> 
> 

Make a fill-in-the-blank form :-)

> David C. Lane 


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Thu Dec  4 12:24:58 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 09:24:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] BEST SYSTEM CONFIG ? (ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA
	controller failure)
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<688846.17218.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0812040022080.2451@banana.sluggo.net>
	<418007.24579.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<49380E16.1030405@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <785132.65717.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I'll work on it.

David 




________________________________
From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 12:06:30 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] BEST SYSTEM CONFIG ? (ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure)

David Lane wrote:
> To save people heart burn how about posting on the web site once a quarter successful system configurations.
> 
> I don't think I'm the only one to be a fan of what work, and what works well.
> 
> 

Make a fill-in-the-blank form :-)

> David C. Lane 
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      


From tesral at comcast.net  Thu Dec  4 12:27:33 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 12:27:33 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] BEST SYSTEM CONFIG ? (ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA
 controller failure)
In-Reply-To: <49380E16.1030405@gmail.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<688846.17218.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0812040022080.2451@banana.sluggo.net>	<418007.24579.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<49380E16.1030405@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49381305.8000008@comcast.net>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> Make a fill-in-the-blank form :-)
>   

Let's see.

Phoenix -- running openSUSE 11
Antec 300 case
Corsair  TX750 power supply
XFX  nForce 680i LT
intel Core Duo 2.4 gig processor
Corsair pc6400 memory, 4 gig
Raedon G-force video card (I can't find the exact model right now.)
Older Auidgy Sound card.(from Gate)
Lite-on DVD burner.
2 500 gig Seagate SATA hard drives.



-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Thu Dec  4 13:01:21 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 10:01:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] BEST SYSTEM CONFIG ? (ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA
	controller failure)
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B245@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<834646.22736.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B24D@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<688846.17218.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0812040022080.2451@banana.sluggo.net>
	<418007.24579.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<49380E16.1030405@gmail.com> <49381305.8000008@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <811272.79562.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Cool when I get Back in town I'll work on the Forms.

David 





________________________________
From: Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 12:27:33 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] BEST SYSTEM CONFIG ? (ECS A770M-A motherboard SATA controller failure)

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> Make a fill-in-the-blank form :-)
>  

Let's see.

Phoenix -- running openSUSE 11
Antec 300 case
Corsair  TX750 power supply
XFX  nForce 680i LT
intel Core Duo 2.4 gig processor
Corsair pc6400 memory, 4 gig
Raedon G-force video card (I can't find the exact model right now.)
Older Auidgy Sound card.(from Gate)
Lite-on DVD burner.
2 500 gig Seagate SATA hard drives.



-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      


From danno at umich.edu  Thu Dec  4 13:29:56 2008
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 13:29:56 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Gigabit Ethernet - Worth it?
In-Reply-To: <200812031657.11234.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
References: <200812031657.11234.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <20081204182956.GA64477@maniac.deathstar.org>

On Wed, Dec 03, 2008 at 04:57:11PM -0500, Stan Green wrote:
> Oh ye experts of the network....
> 
> I do a lot of data transfer of large files (4gb - 40gb ) and large sets of 
> data (100gb+). These transfers take some time. I'm thinking of upgrading some 
> of the network to Gigabit Ethernet. I've read conflicting information about 
> Gigabit Ethernet; some say it is faster and some say the PC is the 
> bottleneck. My PC's tend to be a few (3-5) years old. I transfer data over 
> both NFS and Samba. Most of the large files go over Samba. If I replace the 
> NIC cards, cables and hub, should I expect to see a BIG difference in 
> transfer speed?

First, using a file-transfer protocol rather than Samba will almost
certainly give you some improvement.  SMB and NFS are chatty protocols
and have lots of pauses rather than full-time data transfer.

e.g., SFTP or plain old FTP, which doesn't do encryption so will
use less CPU.  make sure to firewall appropriately if you use plain
FTP.

Assuming this is all on a LAN, you will see some improvement by moving
to gigabit ethernet, no matter what you buy.

for the best performance, buy "server" ethernet cards, e.g., intel
pro/1000 SERVER adapter (there are also pro/1000 desktop adapters).
They really are better, but cost more too.

I'm not sure whether you get benefit from a $40 intel desktop
card vs. a $15 no-name card.  

as another poster mentioned, using jumbo frames will help too;
with 9000 byte frames you have 6x the data per packet.  The cheapest
gear will not support jumbo frames.  all switches, ethernet cards
and your upstream router must support jumbos to use them.  You can
get around the upstream router limitation by having a separate lan
or vlan for the data transfers.

a TCP offload feature on the ethernet card might help, or it might
make things worse.  I have seen cases where it hurt, and disabling
it made a difference.


danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Thu Dec  4 13:57:15 2008
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 13:57:15 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Unix is a Four Letter Word: Unix
Message-ID: <4938280B.9090001@gmail.com>

And Vi is a Two Letter Abbreviation

<http://unix.t-a-y-l-o-r.com/Unix.html>
<http://unix.t-a-y-l-o-r.com/index.html>


From driveray at ameritech.net  Fri Dec  5 17:17:02 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 17:17:02 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] SEMCO Linux install fest Sunday, Feb 8, 2009
Message-ID: <4939A85E.3000201@ameritech.net>

MDLUGers:
The SouthEastern Michigan Computer Organization <http://www.semco.org/> 
will be having a Linux install fest for their members at their Sunday 
Feb 8  2009 meeting. I have volunteered to help co-ordinate this event, 
and we are calling for Linux literate people to help out.

SEMCO meets in an auditorium area on the campus of Arvin Meritor complex 
at 2135 W. Maple Road, in Troy. This is on the South side of Maple Rd. 
East of Coolidge, and West of Crooks. Parking is on the East side of the 
building, so you will need to enter off Maplelawn Drive. As Guests at 
Arvin Meritor we are required to sign in and wear name badges. First 
time visitors will need to arrive about 20 minutes early and get a badge 
at the security office prior to entering the meeting area.

Notice that SEMCO meets on the second Sunday of each month. This is 
usually the day following the second Saturday of the month, except in 
months that begin on Sunday. Such as this coming February. So MDLUG 
members will not have their whole weekend obliterated with meetings by 
participating.

Anyone who thinks they might be able to help out are requested to 
contact <mailto:president at mdlug.org> Please include SEMCO in the subject 
line.

Thanks
Raymond McLaughlin
President MDLUG


From driveray at ameritech.net  Fri Dec  5 18:51:28 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 18:51:28 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] President's mail bag
Message-ID: <4939BE80.4020804@ameritech.net>

Passed along without comment.


> 
> Good Afternoon,
> 
> I found your information on the Ann Arbor Women in Computing's website, I
> am hoping you can pass along the information below to
> students/colleagues/friends and family.  We are a Livonia based software
> company, currently expanding and looking for candidates in software
> development and implementation.  We are hosting a career fair next week,
> anyone is welcome to attend and discuss career opportunities with our
> company.  The information is below, you can also contact us at
> careers1 at workforcesoftware.com or (734)542-4100 and ask to be directed to
> the Recruiter.  
> 
> Announcing the 1st Annual Workforce Software Career Fair
>
> Wednesday December 10, 2008, 4-7pm.  Located at the Detroit Marriott
> Livonia, 17100 Laurel Park Drive North, Livonia, MI 48152
> 
> Workforce Software is having a career fair!  Due to our rapid expansion,
> we're hiring for multiple openings in Software Development and
> Implementation.  Experience levels needed range from entry to
> senior-level.  Specific opportunities are listed below.  If you, or anyone
> you know, are interested in an exciting career opportunity with a rapidly
> expanding software development company, mark your calendars for 4pm on
> Wednesday December 10th, 2008!  This Career Fair will offer you an
> opportunity to meet and discuss career opportunities with Workforce
> Software employees.  Please come prepared with a few copies of your
> resume.  Anyone is welcome- We hope to meet you next Wednesday!  
> 
> Workforce Software develops and implements web-based, enterprise
> application software for employee time and attendance. Our customers are
> large organizations who need to manage their workforce with an enterprise
> class web-based time and attendance system. Our solution is gaining
> widespread acceptance as the industry-leading solution for organizations
> wishing to automate their time and attendance processes. Our system has
> the right functionality and technology and we continue to make large
> investments in new functionality to maintain our market leading position.
> Positions we're currently hiring for include:  
> 
> Java Developers
> 
> Project Manager 
> 
> Project Manager Assistant 
> 
> Business Analyst 
> 
> Implementation Consultants
> 
> Junior Report Writer 
> Junior Quality Assurance Analyst
> 
> Quality Assurance Analyst
> 
> Telesales 
> 
> Support Analyst
> 
> For more information, please visit our website at
> www.workforcesoftware.com <http://www.workforcesoftware.com/> , or e-mail
> careers1 at workforcesoftware.com. 
>


From tesral at comcast.net  Fri Dec  5 23:47:58 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 23:47:58 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] SEMCO Linux install fest Sunday, Feb 8, 2009
In-Reply-To: <4939A85E.3000201@ameritech.net>
References: <4939A85E.3000201@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <493A03FE.7010005@comcast.net>

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> MDLUGers:
> The SouthEastern Michigan Computer Organization <http://www.semco.org/> 
> will be having a Linux install fest for their members at their Sunday 
> Feb 8  2009 meeting. I have volunteered to help co-ordinate this event, 
> and we are calling for Linux literate people to help out.
>
>   
It's further ahead than I usually plan but I'll pencil myself in. 


-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From tesral at comcast.net  Fri Dec  5 23:51:11 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 23:51:11 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] The Burn Box
Message-ID: <493A04BF.9050208@comcast.net>

OK< by now most peoiple know I am keeping a Distro Repository on my Hard
Drive for club use.

I need your help.  Keeping the beast current is an effort, you can
help.  If you download the latest update of your favorite distro, burn
an extra copy for me to rip.  That takes less time than downloading the
sucker.  Also if I have the various members looking out for there pet
distro I'm more likley to have the latest versions for club use.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From driveray at ameritech.net  Fri Dec  5 23:50:07 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 23:50:07 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] SEMCO Linux install fest Sunday, Feb 8, 2009
In-Reply-To: <493A03FE.7010005@comcast.net>
References: <4939A85E.3000201@ameritech.net> <493A03FE.7010005@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <493A047F.8070400@ameritech.net>

Garry Stahl wrote:
> Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
>> MDLUGers:
>> The SouthEastern Michigan Computer Organization <http://www.semco.org/> 
>> will be having a Linux install fest for their members at their Sunday 
>> Feb 8  2009 meeting. I have volunteered to help co-ordinate this event, 
>> and we are calling for Linux literate people to help out.
>>
>>   
> It's further ahead than I usually plan but I'll pencil myself in. 

Good. Just giving everybody plenty of lead time.


From gib at juno.com  Sun Dec  7 12:59:06 2008
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 17:59:06 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  SEMCO Linux install fest Sunday, Feb 8, 2009
Message-ID: <20081207.125906.16342.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>


I put this on my calendar but it is too far ahead for me to commit.

-- Raymond McLaughlin <driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
Garry Stahl wrote:
> Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
>> MDLUGers:
>> The SouthEastern Michigan Computer Organization <http://www.semco.org/> 
>> will be having a Linux install fest for their members at their Sunday 
>> Feb 8  2009 meeting. I have volunteered to help co-ordinate this event, 
>> and we are calling for Linux literate people to help out.
>>
>>   
> It's further ahead than I usually plan but I'll pencil myself in. 

Good. Just giving everybody plenty of lead time.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


____________________________________________________________
Love Graphic Design? Find a school near you. Click Now.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/PnY6rbv7SDAnmSSa06zotvnHG9Z5SkAgwKeluCnL1x03TkaIL7ctm/


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Sun Dec  7 13:22:34 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 13:22:34 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Upcoming Presentation / DD-WRT Router Firmware
Message-ID: <1228674154.8910.36.camel@peter-notebook.site>

Hello All,
	If there's any interest I could present on the dd-wrt router firmware
on a Linksys WRT54GL. It's no longer my primary router and I can easily
disconnect it and bring it in. My presentation would be basically
running through the configuration screens, which are many. I'm sure most
of the membership knows much more about the specifics, but show and tell
can be helpful at times.

Best Regards,
	
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From driveray at ameritech.net  Sun Dec  7 14:38:41 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 14:38:41 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Upcoming Presentation / DD-WRT Router Firmware
In-Reply-To: <1228674154.8910.36.camel@peter-notebook.site>
References: <1228674154.8910.36.camel@peter-notebook.site>
Message-ID: <493C2641.7070604@ameritech.net>

Peter Bart wrote:
> Hello All,
> 	If there's any interest I could present on the dd-wrt router firmware
> on a Linksys WRT54GL. It's no longer my primary router and I can easily
> disconnect it and bring it in. My presentation would be basically
> running through the configuration screens, which are many. I'm sure most
> of the membership knows much more about the specifics, but show and tell
> can be helpful at times.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 	

Sounds Interesting. Is this firmware that you flashed yourself, as 
opposed to OEM?


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Sun Dec  7 15:09:48 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 15:09:48 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Upcoming Presentation / DD-WRT Router Firmware
In-Reply-To: <493C2641.7070604@ameritech.net>
References: <1228674154.8910.36.camel@peter-notebook.site>
	<493C2641.7070604@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <1228680588.8910.43.camel@peter-notebook.site>


On Sun, 2008-12-07 at 14:38 -0500, Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Peter Bart wrote:
> > Hello All,
> > 	If there's any interest I could present on the dd-wrt router firmware
> > on a Linksys WRT54GL. It's no longer my primary router and I can easily
> > disconnect it and bring it in. My presentation would be basically
> > running through the configuration screens, which are many. I'm sure most
> > of the membership knows much more about the specifics, but show and tell
> > can be helpful at times.
> > 
> > Best Regards,
> > 	
> 
> Sounds Interesting. Is this firmware that you flashed yourself, as 
> opposed to OEM?

	It is in fact third party firmware I have flashed onto several routers
as well as upgraded the original router firmware from a previous dd-wrt
firmware.

<http://dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page>

	As I mentioned this would be more of a show and tell than anything
else. I simply follow the directions; most of the time; do this or don't
do that. So while I have a very basic understanding of things any of
your members will know much more about the nuts and bolts behind this
than I.

Best Regards,

-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From gib at juno.com  Sun Dec  7 19:22:36 2008
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 00:22:36 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  Upcoming Presentation / DD-WRT Router Firmware
Message-ID: <20081207.192236.27319.0@webmail01.vgs.untd.com>


I have a WRT54G and a WRT54GS.  I'll try to bring them both.

Also, I've asked some new members to a new organization to stop by. We hope to talk about this new group.  It's the Motor City Free Geeks:

http://MotorCityFreeGeek.com

- Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:


On Sun, 2008-12-07 at 14:38 -0500, Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Peter Bart wrote:
> > Hello All,
> > 	If there's any interest I could present on the dd-wrt router firmware
> > on a Linksys WRT54GL. It's no longer my primary router and I can easily
> > disconnect it and bring it in. My presentation would be basically
> > running through the configuration screens, which are many. I'm sure most
> > of the membership knows much more about the specifics, but show and tell
> > can be helpful at times.
> > 
> > Best Regards,
> > 	
> 
> Sounds Interesting. Is this firmware that you flashed yourself, as 
> opposed to OEM?

	It is in fact third party firmware I have flashed onto several routers
as well as upgraded the original router firmware from a previous dd-wrt
firmware.

<http://dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page>

	As I mentioned this would be more of a show and tell than anything
else. I simply follow the directions; most of the time; do this or don't
do that. So while I have a very basic understanding of things any of
your members will know much more about the nuts and bolts behind this
than I.

Best Regards,

-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


____________________________________________________________
Click for free quote on refinancing your mortgage.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/PnY6rbupltQuLdBWah1FfzzN8sEt584gG7SvYaOmpCcps1UV6ekj6/


From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Tue Dec  9 13:32:54 2008
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 13:32:54 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools
References: <268F49D5ADF245A0924E695327BE5CD8@AMD2000>
	<8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06949009@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
Message-ID: <C7A15735B50F43DA850528AE694CA070@AMD2000>

Greg,

You have any luck with Spacewalk?
It is not an easy tool to install and configure, that's for sure..  Also, the wiki docs seem a bit disorganized.  It took me several attempts to get it installed and working.  Then I had trouble with the channels.  Mainly adding clients to a channel.  I was finally able to add a client to a channel, populate it with a few RPMs, and push the RPMs to the client.  Also, I noticed that the rhnsd client daemon wakes up every 240 minutes (default) and checks the spacewalk server for any actions.  I had initially thought that was 240 seconds.  So an "apply now" action could really be hours later.

-Mike
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Wojtak, Greg 
  To: MDLUG's Main discussion list 
  Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:38 AM
  Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools


  Ah, the holy grail for CentOS/RHEL systems (aside from paying Red Hat
  $13,000 a year for a satellite server!).

  I am looking for the same thing (and I'm sure any other Linux Sysadmin
  is) for years.  I'm still using the strategy of "install updates on dev
  server, keep the rpm's that were downloaded, move them to test, then
  production, and pray to God that the same packages are in sync across
  all environments."  

  Not very efficient.  I've been looking into building a yum server and
  configuring the yum-updatesd to download the packages that I roll out.
  A little better than using cron, but not by much.

  I'd be interested to hear if you find anything.

  Greg Wojtak

  -----Original Message-----
  From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
  Of Michael ORourke
  Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:29 AM
  To: MDLUG's main mailing list
  Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools

  Lug nuts,

  I'm looking for some recommendations, specifically for the CentOS 5.2 
  distribution, for a centralized package management system or tools.
  I've 
  spent some time doing vaious Google searches, but haven't found what I
  was 
  looking for aside from basic tools such as 'yum' and 'up2date', which
  are 
  designed to run on a single host.  I was hoping that I would stumble
  upon 
  some existing tools that could be leveraged in an existing environment.
  What I would really like is:
  * Gui tools (browser based).
  * Internal centralized server (package repository).
  * Centralized management (for development, QA, & production).
  * Ability to schedule updates and manually push updates.
  * Auditing capabilities (which servers have what packages installed).
  * Ability to manage servers by group (e.g. Dev App servers).

  Running 'yum -update' from cron on each server isn't a good strategy, 
  especially when it comes to production systems.  I would like to have
  the 
  capability to pull down patches to a centralized server, then push the 
  patches/updates to the development/QA environment, and finally out to
  the 
  production systems after testing is completed.
  Is that too much to ask for.  :-)
  Any suggestions/recommendations/ideas?

  Thanks,
  Mike 

  _______________________________________________
  mdlug mailing list
  mdlug at mdlug.org
  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
  _______________________________________________
  mdlug mailing list
  mdlug at mdlug.org
  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


------------------------------------------------------------------------------



  No virus found in this incoming message.
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From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Tue Dec  9 14:04:55 2008
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 14:04:55 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools
In-Reply-To: <C7A15735B50F43DA850528AE694CA070@AMD2000>
References: <268F49D5ADF245A0924E695327BE5CD8@AMD2000><8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06949009@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<C7A15735B50F43DA850528AE694CA070@AMD2000>
Message-ID: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06949944@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

It sounds like we are having the same problems.  I can't get a channel
created - when I click on the Manage Entitlement Channels link it takes
me to the Overview page, so I had to use the python script to create the
channel manually.  Still no go, I can't get a client registered.  I
asked about it on the Spacewalk list but haven't heard back about that
particular issue.  How did you get a client registered?

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Michael ORourke
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:33 PM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools

Greg,

You have any luck with Spacewalk?
It is not an easy tool to install and configure, that's for sure..
Also, the wiki docs seem a bit disorganized.  It took me several
attempts to get it installed and working.  Then I had trouble with the
channels.  Mainly adding clients to a channel.  I was finally able to
add a client to a channel, populate it with a few RPMs, and push the
RPMs to the client.  Also, I noticed that the rhnsd client daemon wakes
up every 240 minutes (default) and checks the spacewalk server for any
actions.  I had initially thought that was 240 seconds.  So an "apply
now" action could really be hours later.

-Mike
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Wojtak, Greg 
  To: MDLUG's Main discussion list 
  Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:38 AM
  Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools


  Ah, the holy grail for CentOS/RHEL systems (aside from paying Red Hat
  $13,000 a year for a satellite server!).

  I am looking for the same thing (and I'm sure any other Linux Sysadmin
  is) for years.  I'm still using the strategy of "install updates on
dev
  server, keep the rpm's that were downloaded, move them to test, then
  production, and pray to God that the same packages are in sync across
  all environments."  

  Not very efficient.  I've been looking into building a yum server and
  configuring the yum-updatesd to download the packages that I roll out.
  A little better than using cron, but not by much.

  I'd be interested to hear if you find anything.

  Greg Wojtak

  -----Original Message-----
  From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On
Behalf
  Of Michael ORourke
  Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:29 AM
  To: MDLUG's main mailing list
  Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools

  Lug nuts,

  I'm looking for some recommendations, specifically for the CentOS 5.2 
  distribution, for a centralized package management system or tools.
  I've 
  spent some time doing vaious Google searches, but haven't found what I
  was 
  looking for aside from basic tools such as 'yum' and 'up2date', which
  are 
  designed to run on a single host.  I was hoping that I would stumble
  upon 
  some existing tools that could be leveraged in an existing
environment.
  What I would really like is:
  * Gui tools (browser based).
  * Internal centralized server (package repository).
  * Centralized management (for development, QA, & production).
  * Ability to schedule updates and manually push updates.
  * Auditing capabilities (which servers have what packages installed).
  * Ability to manage servers by group (e.g. Dev App servers).

  Running 'yum -update' from cron on each server isn't a good strategy, 
  especially when it comes to production systems.  I would like to have
  the 
  capability to pull down patches to a centralized server, then push the

  patches/updates to the development/QA environment, and finally out to
  the 
  production systems after testing is completed.
  Is that too much to ask for.  :-)
  Any suggestions/recommendations/ideas?

  Thanks,
  Mike 

  _______________________________________________
  mdlug mailing list
  mdlug at mdlug.org
  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
  _______________________________________________
  mdlug mailing list
  mdlug at mdlug.org
  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


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  Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 
  Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.12/1822 - Release Date:
12/1/2008 8:23 AM
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Tue Dec  9 17:00:13 2008
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 17:00:13 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools
References: <268F49D5ADF245A0924E695327BE5CD8@AMD2000><8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06949009@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com><C7A15735B50F43DA850528AE694CA070@AMD2000>
	<8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06949944@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
Message-ID: <00472CAFC72D4F9F939640A46EE2DEAA@AMD2000>

I'm currently doing a reinstall, and I plan on taking better notes this time.
Strange thing, I was able to register a system with my spacewalk server, but I was not able to join any channels.  Until I created a channel manually with that script.  Were you able to register a client with your spacewalk server? 
I don't remember the exact steps I took to be able to register and join the channel, but I did have it working.  This time around, I should have some better notes that I can share regarding the proceedure.  Hopefully I can get it working again!  :-)

-Mike

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Wojtak, Greg 
  To: MDLUG's Main discussion list 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 2:04 PM
  Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools


  It sounds like we are having the same problems.  I can't get a channel
  created - when I click on the Manage Entitlement Channels link it takes
  me to the Overview page, so I had to use the python script to create the
  channel manually.  Still no go, I can't get a client registered.  I
  asked about it on the Spacewalk list but haven't heard back about that
  particular issue.  How did you get a client registered?

  -----Original Message-----
  From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
  Of Michael ORourke
  Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:33 PM
  To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
  Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools

  Greg,

  You have any luck with Spacewalk?
  It is not an easy tool to install and configure, that's for sure..
  Also, the wiki docs seem a bit disorganized.  It took me several
  attempts to get it installed and working.  Then I had trouble with the
  channels.  Mainly adding clients to a channel.  I was finally able to
  add a client to a channel, populate it with a few RPMs, and push the
  RPMs to the client.  Also, I noticed that the rhnsd client daemon wakes
  up every 240 minutes (default) and checks the spacewalk server for any
  actions.  I had initially thought that was 240 seconds.  So an "apply
  now" action could really be hours later.

  -Mike
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Wojtak, Greg 
    To: MDLUG's Main discussion list 
    Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:38 AM
    Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools


    Ah, the holy grail for CentOS/RHEL systems (aside from paying Red Hat
    $13,000 a year for a satellite server!).

    I am looking for the same thing (and I'm sure any other Linux Sysadmin
    is) for years.  I'm still using the strategy of "install updates on
  dev
    server, keep the rpm's that were downloaded, move them to test, then
    production, and pray to God that the same packages are in sync across
    all environments."  

    Not very efficient.  I've been looking into building a yum server and
    configuring the yum-updatesd to download the packages that I roll out.
    A little better than using cron, but not by much.

    I'd be interested to hear if you find anything.

    Greg Wojtak

    -----Original Message-----
    From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On
  Behalf
    Of Michael ORourke
    Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:29 AM
    To: MDLUG's main mailing list
    Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools

    Lug nuts,

    I'm looking for some recommendations, specifically for the CentOS 5.2 
    distribution, for a centralized package management system or tools.
    I've 
    spent some time doing vaious Google searches, but haven't found what I
    was 
    looking for aside from basic tools such as 'yum' and 'up2date', which
    are 
    designed to run on a single host.  I was hoping that I would stumble
    upon 
    some existing tools that could be leveraged in an existing
  environment.
    What I would really like is:
    * Gui tools (browser based).
    * Internal centralized server (package repository).
    * Centralized management (for development, QA, & production).
    * Ability to schedule updates and manually push updates.
    * Auditing capabilities (which servers have what packages installed).
    * Ability to manage servers by group (e.g. Dev App servers).

    Running 'yum -update' from cron on each server isn't a good strategy, 
    especially when it comes to production systems.  I would like to have
    the 
    capability to pull down patches to a centralized server, then push the

    patches/updates to the development/QA environment, and finally out to
    the 
    production systems after testing is completed.
    Is that too much to ask for.  :-)
    Any suggestions/recommendations/ideas?

    Thanks,
    Mike 

    _______________________________________________
    mdlug mailing list
    mdlug at mdlug.org
    http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
    _______________________________________________
    mdlug mailing list
    mdlug at mdlug.org
    http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
  ------



    No virus found in this incoming message.
    Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 
    Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.12/1822 - Release Date:
  12/1/2008 8:23 AM
  _______________________________________________
  mdlug mailing list
  mdlug at mdlug.org
  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
  _______________________________________________
  mdlug mailing list
  mdlug at mdlug.org
  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


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  Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 
  Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.14/1829 - Release Date: 12/4/2008 2:59 PM


From otakurider at gmail.com  Wed Dec 10 07:54:18 2008
From: otakurider at gmail.com (-)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 07:54:18 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Sad state of schools but hope may be with students
Message-ID: <cd5131a50812100454l5be0bad3s883463f35554e838@mail.gmail.com>

This may be already know but it was a interesting read - base link from
slashdot and digg


http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding-our-kids-back.html


From rkannan at peoplepc.com  Wed Dec 10 09:07:07 2008
From: rkannan at peoplepc.com (R. Kannan)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 09:07:07 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: [mdlug] Sad state of schools but hope may be with students
Message-ID: <24716557.1228918028217.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>


A few comments on this article seem to indicate that this story is made up. I cannot believe such stupidity exists among our teachers. Has the author of the story been proven to be not credible in the past?

-----Original Message-----
>From: - <otakurider at gmail.com>
>Sent: Dec 10, 2008 7:54 AM
>To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>Subject: [mdlug] Sad state of schools but hope may be with students
>
>This may be already know but it was a interesting read - base link from
>slashdot and digg
>
>
>http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding-our-kids-back.html
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com


From radkins at impelind.com  Wed Dec 10 09:22:55 2008
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 09:22:55 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Sad state of schools but hope may be with students
In-Reply-To: <24716557.1228918028217.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20081210143121.241F1C0C6@impelind.com>

I most certainly can believe that such rank stupidity exists within some
teachers.

I have personally experienced more than a few handfuls of teachers who have
exhibited such viewpoints and general ignorance of Information Technology.

One "shinging" example is an "instructor" I had at OCC for an Introduction
to Web Systems class. It was essentially a how to use Dreamweaver course.
The man was the most pig ignorant person that I have ever interacted with.

He actually told a story about how it's wise to use the right kind of fonts
on your webpage and then went on to tell the story about how his page looked
great on his computer, but the fonts were different on his girlfriend's
computer, which messed up the page's layout. So, he attempted to fix the
problem by buying her a new monitor, only to discover that wasn't the
problem.

He went on complaining about how he really disliked Dreamweaver and really
wanted to be teaching the class Frontpage, because "Microsoft is the best
thing in the world!" but he was forced to teach this class Dreamweaver. He
was happy that his other classes covered Frontpage.

This vile example of an instructor even proclaimed to the class that nobody
in the course would be receiving an A. The best grade he would ever give is
an A-, because he *knows* that nobody can ever be "perfect". This attitude
of his was something he lorded over the entire class for the entire
semester.

He really was clueless and believed that only Microsoft Products were usable
in the "Real World".

I have personally interacted with similarly clueless individuals and quite
frankly, it is perfectly believable that there exists such an instructor as
described in that Slashdot lniked article.

-Rob

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of R. Kannan
> Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 9:07 AM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Sad state of schools but hope may be 
> with students
> 
> 
> A few comments on this article seem to indicate that this 
> story is made up. I cannot believe such stupidity exists 
> among our teachers. Has the author of the story been proven 
> to be not credible in the past?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: - <otakurider at gmail.com>
> >Sent: Dec 10, 2008 7:54 AM
> >To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> >Subject: [mdlug] Sad state of schools but hope may be with students
> >
> >This may be already know but it was a interesting read - 
> base link from 
> >slashdot and digg
> >
> >
> >http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding-our-
> kids-back.
> >html _______________________________________________
> >mdlug mailing list
> >mdlug at mdlug.org
> >http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 
> 
> ________________________________________
> PeoplePC Online
> A better way to Internet
> http://www.peoplepc.com
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 



From mark at metrofindings.com  Wed Dec 10 10:36:34 2008
From: mark at metrofindings.com (Mark Kimsal)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 10:36:34 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Sad state of schools but hope may be with students
In-Reply-To: <24716557.1228918028217.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <24716557.1228918028217.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <200812101036.34226.mark@metrofindings.com>

On Wednesday 10 December 08, R. Kannan wrote:
> A few comments on this article seem to indicate that this story is made up.
> I cannot believe such stupidity exists among our teachers. Has the author
> of the story been proven to be not credible in the past?

Hah, you can tell it's 100% made up because there's a Windows users who thinks 
operating systems cost money.  The majority of technically under-educated 
people I know have no clue how much Windows costs, that you can buy it from 
the store, or that it is even separable from a computer.  POST tests, BIOS 
screens, boot logos and desktops all kind of blur together to make "the 
computer".  

The level of technical competence expressed by the teacher in question tips 
their hand too much.  A person with that much computer knowledge has probably 
heard of free (even discounting Free) software.

Basically, if you start throwing around the word "operating system", you can't 
be so out-of-it as to not have heard of Linux/FOSS.  The situation loses a 
lot of credibility with me at that point.

Add in the end of the letter, which suggests begging MS for old copies of 
Windows (which there's no way you could get even if you tried to pay for 
them), and you get a pretty poorly made up story... at least it seems that 
way to me.


On a related note... would confiscating all the CDs constitute a DoS attack on 
the kid's software?

> -----Original Message-----
>
> >From: - <otakurider at gmail.com>
> >Sent: Dec 10, 2008 7:54 AM
> >To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> >Subject: [mdlug] Sad state of schools but hope may be with students
> >
> >This may be already know but it was a interesting read - base link from
> >slashdot and digg
> >
> >
> >http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding-our-kids-back.htm
> >l _______________________________________________
> >mdlug mailing list
> >mdlug at mdlug.org
> >http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
> ________________________________________
> PeoplePC Online
> A better way to Internet
> http://www.peoplepc.com
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



-- 
***************************************************************************
Electronic Mail is not secure, may not be read every day, and should not be 
used for urgent or sensitive issues.

Mark Kimsal
http://biz.metrofindings.com/
fax: 866-375-1590


From newmaniese at gmail.com  Wed Dec 10 11:39:07 2008
From: newmaniese at gmail.com (Michael)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 11:39:07 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Sad state of schools but hope may be with students
In-Reply-To: <200812101036.34226.mark@metrofindings.com>
References: <24716557.1228918028217.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<200812101036.34226.mark@metrofindings.com>
Message-ID: <225acb190812100839n19380a85wc5c1983ba7bdba85@mail.gmail.com>

My wife is a teacher and they rely on Windows computers at school. When she
started working there they didn't have a decent word processor and so she
installed Open Office, everyone is thrilled. One of the main reasons that
the school doesn't do away with with the windows tax is purely because they
can find support for anything but.
She is young like me and therefore is asked when it comes to decisions on
the computer side of things. She is excited by the linux star gazer programs
and things like Firefox which can be programmed to only allow access to
certain sites and ad block and the works for enhancing the student
experience with computers.

I think it would be such an awesome service for a local linux group to get
together and roll together a Distribution and provide support to a
classroom. I know distributed upgrades and maintenance is so easy, that kind
of thing would really save a lot of time. I remember a lot of collaboration
ideas and backup thoughts from the OLPC that could easily be rolled out to
computers through out a network.

This has been an idea I have had for the last year or so and really think
that linux could make a huge push in schools where they are paying thousands
of dollars a year for support and limiting student's access to computers due
to spyware and the accidental porn site that kids/teachers tend to figure
out the fastest possible way to navigate to.

I would be really interested to get together with some tech savvy people and
possibly roll together a mock plan if a group were to want to support/roll
out software to elementary schools/classrooms. I don't know if it is
feasible; if people have the time to do something like this, but we all know
the benefits of linux and there is something to be said for volunteering for
our young people to have greater access to information.

Well that is my idea. It might be like the bulk of them and go nowhere, but
I really feel sorry for kids who are only allowed to go in the computer with
the teacher looking over their shoulder and feel like there is so much that
we could do to help out.

My 2c,

Michael


On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 10:36 AM, Mark Kimsal <mark at metrofindings.com>wrote:

> On Wednesday 10 December 08, R. Kannan wrote:
> > A few comments on this article seem to indicate that this story is made
> up.
> > I cannot believe such stupidity exists among our teachers. Has the author
> > of the story been proven to be not credible in the past?
>
> Hah, you can tell it's 100% made up because there's a Windows users who
> thinks
> operating systems cost money.  The majority of technically under-educated
> people I know have no clue how much Windows costs, that you can buy it from
> the store, or that it is even separable from a computer.  POST tests, BIOS
> screens, boot logos and desktops all kind of blur together to make "the
> computer".
>
> The level of technical competence expressed by the teacher in question tips
> their hand too much.  A person with that much computer knowledge has
> probably
> heard of free (even discounting Free) software.
>
> Basically, if you start throwing around the word "operating system", you
> can't
> be so out-of-it as to not have heard of Linux/FOSS.  The situation loses a
> lot of credibility with me at that point.
>
> Add in the end of the letter, which suggests begging MS for old copies of
> Windows (which there's no way you could get even if you tried to pay for
> them), and you get a pretty poorly made up story... at least it seems that
> way to me.
>
>
> On a related note... would confiscating all the CDs constitute a DoS attack
> on
> the kid's software?
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
> > >From: - <otakurider at gmail.com>
> > >Sent: Dec 10, 2008 7:54 AM
> > >To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> > >Subject: [mdlug] Sad state of schools but hope may be with students
> > >
> > >This may be already know but it was a interesting read - base link from
> > >slashdot and digg
> > >
> > >
> > >
> http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding-our-kids-back.htm
> > >l _______________________________________________
> > >mdlug mailing list
> > >mdlug at mdlug.org
> > >http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > PeoplePC Online
> > A better way to Internet
> > http://www.peoplepc.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > mdlug mailing list
> > mdlug at mdlug.org
> > http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>
>
> --
> ***************************************************************************
> Electronic Mail is not secure, may not be read every day, and should not be
> used for urgent or sensitive issues.
>
> Mark Kimsal
> http://biz.metrofindings.com/
> fax: 866-375-1590
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From mark at metrofindings.com  Wed Dec 10 12:03:29 2008
From: mark at metrofindings.com (Mark Kimsal)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:03:29 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Sad state of schools but hope may be with students
In-Reply-To: <225acb190812100839n19380a85wc5c1983ba7bdba85@mail.gmail.com>
References: <24716557.1228918028217.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<200812101036.34226.mark@metrofindings.com>
	<225acb190812100839n19380a85wc5c1983ba7bdba85@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200812101203.29279.mark@metrofindings.com>

On Wednesday 10 December 08, Michael wrote:
> My wife is a teacher and they rely on Windows computers at school. When she
> started working there they didn't have a decent word processor and so she
> installed Open Office, everyone is thrilled. One of the main reasons that
> the school doesn't do away with with the windows tax is purely because they
> can find support for anything but.
> She is young like me and therefore is asked when it comes to decisions on
> the computer side of things. She is excited by the linux star gazer
> programs and things like Firefox which can be programmed to only allow
> access to certain sites and ad block and the works for enhancing the
> student experience with computers.
>
> I think it would be such an awesome service for a local linux group to get
> together and roll together a Distribution and provide support to a
> classroom. I know distributed upgrades and maintenance is so easy, that
> kind of thing would really save a lot of time. I remember a lot of
> collaboration ideas and backup thoughts from the OLPC that could easily be
> rolled out to computers through out a network.

You have to figure out what the real IT road-blocks are.  I've suggested doing 
something like this two 2 schools and they both come back with a litany of 
Windows programs for which they need a direct cognate; some sort of content 
filtering, like net-nanny, some sort of firewall, anti-virus, 
ActiveDirectory, IE, Flash (before flash on linux was out), Shockwave (after 
flash on linux was out)...  As soon as you suggest a feasible alternative 
product, another "must-have" pops up that delays any serious talks about 
migrating.

The one school which actually got past all the software-hurdles couldn't 
migrate because they got free support from somebody who only knew MS, and I 
wouldn't provide free hardware and software support.

> This has been an idea I have had for the last year or so and really think
> that linux could make a huge push in schools where they are paying
> thousands of dollars a year for support and limiting student's access to
> computers due to spyware and the accidental porn site that kids/teachers
> tend to figure out the fastest possible way to navigate to.
>
> I would be really interested to get together with some tech savvy people
> and possibly roll together a mock plan if a group were to want to
> support/roll out software to elementary schools/classrooms. I don't know if
> it is feasible; if people have the time to do something like this, but we
> all know the benefits of linux and there is something to be said for
> volunteering for our young people to have greater access to information.

I don't think it would be truly feasible to have a group of volunteers manage 
a school's network.  At some point, somebody has to be by a phone to help 
with real problems.  If a local school system were to transfer the software 
licensing fees to an individual, or group of individuals for a 24/7 support 
contract, I don't think there would be any road blocks to a school using 
linux on their networks.

In my experience, the only roadblock to schools using open source is their 
inability, or unwillingness, to pay for support.  They'll gladly pay software 
licensing fees up front with no questions about how the closed source 
software works and then ask for free support when it breaks. But, they flip 
side I have yet to see... use free products and pay for support.  The usual 
story is because they don't have it in their budget... the budget is already 
full of licensing costs.

It's the classic argument of spend your budget locally on local experts... 
keep money in the state instead of sending it to Redmond... it's a win win 
for everybody.

That's just my experience trying to knock on doors and get schools to switch 
to Linux.

I have a real hard time believing that schools do a lot of real research on 
open source.  I used to go to OU and they migrated from blackboard to moodle 
while i was attending classes there.  I never got a call about logicampus.  
Even though there is only a short list of about 5 open source campus learning 
programs, and the developer of one was attending school at their own 
institution, I never got a call or an e-mail.


> Well that is my idea. It might be like the bulk of them and go nowhere, but
> I really feel sorry for kids who are only allowed to go in the computer
> with the teacher looking over their shoulder and feel like there is so much
> that we could do to help out.

As long as schools stay at arm's length from open source, neither your idea 
nor their institutions will go anywhere interesting.

> My 2c,
>
> Michael
>
> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 10:36 AM, Mark Kimsal <mark at metrofindings.com>wrote:
> > On Wednesday 10 December 08, R. Kannan wrote:
> > > A few comments on this article seem to indicate that this story is made
> >
> > up.
> >
> > > I cannot believe such stupidity exists among our teachers. Has the
> > > author of the story been proven to be not credible in the past?
> >
> > Hah, you can tell it's 100% made up because there's a Windows users who
> > thinks
> > operating systems cost money.  The majority of technically under-educated
> > people I know have no clue how much Windows costs, that you can buy it
> > from the store, or that it is even separable from a computer.  POST
> > tests, BIOS screens, boot logos and desktops all kind of blur together to
> > make "the computer".
> >
> > The level of technical competence expressed by the teacher in question
> > tips their hand too much.  A person with that much computer knowledge has
> > probably
> > heard of free (even discounting Free) software.
> >
> > Basically, if you start throwing around the word "operating system", you
> > can't
> > be so out-of-it as to not have heard of Linux/FOSS.  The situation loses
> > a lot of credibility with me at that point.
> >
> > Add in the end of the letter, which suggests begging MS for old copies of
> > Windows (which there's no way you could get even if you tried to pay for
> > them), and you get a pretty poorly made up story... at least it seems
> > that way to me.
> >
> >
> > On a related note... would confiscating all the CDs constitute a DoS
> > attack on
> > the kid's software?
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > >
> > > >From: - <otakurider at gmail.com>
> > > >Sent: Dec 10, 2008 7:54 AM
> > > >To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> > > >Subject: [mdlug] Sad state of schools but hope may be with students
> > > >
> > > >This may be already know but it was a interesting read - base link
> > > > from slashdot and digg
> >
> > http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding-our-kids-back.ht
> >m
> >
> > > >l _______________________________________________
> > > >mdlug mailing list
> > > >mdlug at mdlug.org
> > > >http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> > >
> > > ________________________________________
> > > PeoplePC Online
> > > A better way to Internet
> > > http://www.peoplepc.com
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > mdlug mailing list
> > > mdlug at mdlug.org
> > > http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> >
> > --
> > *************************************************************************
> >** Electronic Mail is not secure, may not be read every day, and should
> > not be used for urgent or sensitive issues.
> >
> > Mark Kimsal
> > http://biz.metrofindings.com/
> > fax: 866-375-1590
> > _______________________________________________
> > mdlug mailing list
> > mdlug at mdlug.org
> > http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



-- 
***************************************************************************
Electronic Mail is not secure, may not be read every day, and should not be 
used for urgent or sensitive issues.

Mark Kimsal
http://biz.metrofindings.com/
fax: 866-375-1590


From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Thu Dec 11 08:32:29 2008
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 08:32:29 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools *update*
References: <268F49D5ADF245A0924E695327BE5CD8@AMD2000><8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06949009@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com><C7A15735B50F43DA850528AE694CA070@AMD2000><8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06949944@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<00472CAFC72D4F9F939640A46EE2DEAA@AMD2000>
Message-ID: <E0D22DAEC3124E98A03D8C975B872EE5@AMD2000>

Okay...  here is what I did thus far.
1. Standard install, followed directions on the Wiki.
2. Created a new 'activation key' within Spacewalk GUI.
    Systems --> Activation Keys --> Create new key
    Using these values...
    Description: Default Key
    Key: <blank>
    Usage: <blank>
    Base Channels: Spacewalk Default
    Add-On Entitlements: <nothing checked>
    Universal Default: Checked
3. Created software channel using python script
    Example:
    create_channel.py --label "centos-5.2-i386" --name "CentOS 5.2 
32-bit" --summary "32-bit CentOS 5.2 channel"
4. Attempt to join a client to spacewalk (failed)
    Example:
    rhnreg_ks --verbose --force --activationkey="<default key created with 
spacewalk GUI " --serverUrl http://myspacewalk.server.local/XMLRPC
5. Disabled firewall on spacewalk server.
6. Retry the join (failed)
7. Admin --> Spacewalk Configuration --> Restart (takes about 5 minutes on 
our system)
8. Verify spacewalk is up and running, then retry join (Success!)

-Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Michael ORourke
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools


I'm currently doing a reinstall, and I plan on taking better notes this 
time.
Strange thing, I was able to register a system with my spacewalk server, but 
I was not able to join any channels.  Until I created a channel manually 
with that script.  Were you able to register a client with your spacewalk 
server?
I don't remember the exact steps I took to be able to register and join the 
channel, but I did have it working.  This time around, I should have some 
better notes that I can share regarding the proceedure.  Hopefully I can get 
it working again!  :-)

-Mike

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Wojtak, Greg
  To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
  Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 2:04 PM
  Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools


  It sounds like we are having the same problems.  I can't get a channel
  created - when I click on the Manage Entitlement Channels link it takes
  me to the Overview page, so I had to use the python script to create the
  channel manually.  Still no go, I can't get a client registered.  I
  asked about it on the Spacewalk list but haven't heard back about that
  particular issue.  How did you get a client registered?

  -----Original Message-----
  From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
  Of Michael ORourke
  Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:33 PM
  To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
  Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools

  Greg,

  You have any luck with Spacewalk?
  It is not an easy tool to install and configure, that's for sure..
  Also, the wiki docs seem a bit disorganized.  It took me several
  attempts to get it installed and working.  Then I had trouble with the
  channels.  Mainly adding clients to a channel.  I was finally able to
  add a client to a channel, populate it with a few RPMs, and push the
  RPMs to the client.  Also, I noticed that the rhnsd client daemon wakes
  up every 240 minutes (default) and checks the spacewalk server for any
  actions.  I had initially thought that was 240 seconds.  So an "apply
  now" action could really be hours later.

  -Mike
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Wojtak, Greg
    To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
    Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:38 AM
    Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools


    Ah, the holy grail for CentOS/RHEL systems (aside from paying Red Hat
    $13,000 a year for a satellite server!).

    I am looking for the same thing (and I'm sure any other Linux Sysadmin
    is) for years.  I'm still using the strategy of "install updates on
  dev
    server, keep the rpm's that were downloaded, move them to test, then
    production, and pray to God that the same packages are in sync across
    all environments."

    Not very efficient.  I've been looking into building a yum server and
    configuring the yum-updatesd to download the packages that I roll out.
    A little better than using cron, but not by much.

    I'd be interested to hear if you find anything.

    Greg Wojtak

    -----Original Message-----
    From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On
  Behalf
    Of Michael ORourke
    Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:29 AM
    To: MDLUG's main mailing list
    Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools

    Lug nuts,

    I'm looking for some recommendations, specifically for the CentOS 5.2
    distribution, for a centralized package management system or tools.
    I've
    spent some time doing vaious Google searches, but haven't found what I
    was
    looking for aside from basic tools such as 'yum' and 'up2date', which
    are
    designed to run on a single host.  I was hoping that I would stumble
    upon
    some existing tools that could be leveraged in an existing
  environment.
    What I would really like is:
    * Gui tools (browser based).
    * Internal centralized server (package repository).
    * Centralized management (for development, QA, & production).
    * Ability to schedule updates and manually push updates.
    * Auditing capabilities (which servers have what packages installed).
    * Ability to manage servers by group (e.g. Dev App servers).

    Running 'yum -update' from cron on each server isn't a good strategy,
    especially when it comes to production systems.  I would like to have
    the
    capability to pull down patches to a centralized server, then push the

    patches/updates to the development/QA environment, and finally out to
    the
    production systems after testing is completed.
    Is that too much to ask for.  :-)
    Any suggestions/recommendations/ideas?

    Thanks,
    Mike

    _______________________________________________
    mdlug mailing list
    mdlug at mdlug.org
    http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
    _______________________________________________
    mdlug mailing list
    mdlug at mdlug.org
    http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
  ------



    No virus found in this incoming message.
    Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
    Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.12/1822 - Release Date:
  12/1/2008 8:23 AM
  _______________________________________________
  mdlug mailing list
  mdlug at mdlug.org
  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
  _______________________________________________
  mdlug mailing list
  mdlug at mdlug.org
  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


------------------------------------------------------------------------------



  Internal Virus Database is out of date.
  Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
  Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.14/1829 - Release Date: 12/4/2008 
2:59 PM
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.14/1829 - Release Date: 12/4/2008 
2:59 PM 



From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Thu Dec 11 09:14:46 2008
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:14:46 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools *update*
In-Reply-To: <E0D22DAEC3124E98A03D8C975B872EE5@AMD2000>
References: <268F49D5ADF245A0924E695327BE5CD8@AMD2000><8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06949009@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com><C7A15735B50F43DA850528AE694CA070@AMD2000><8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06949944@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com><00472CAFC72D4F9F939640A46EE2DEAA@AMD2000>
	<E0D22DAEC3124E98A03D8C975B872EE5@AMD2000>
Message-ID: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06ACC112@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

I'll give her a go and let you know my results.  I was attempting to do
rhnreg_ks --activationkey="whatever"
--serverUrl=http://spacewalk.fqdn.com/XMLRPC --username=gwojtak
--password=<my password>

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Michael ORourke
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 8:32 AM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools *update*

Okay...  here is what I did thus far.
1. Standard install, followed directions on the Wiki.
2. Created a new 'activation key' within Spacewalk GUI.
    Systems --> Activation Keys --> Create new key
    Using these values...
    Description: Default Key
    Key: <blank>
    Usage: <blank>
    Base Channels: Spacewalk Default
    Add-On Entitlements: <nothing checked>
    Universal Default: Checked
3. Created software channel using python script
    Example:
    create_channel.py --label "centos-5.2-i386" --name "CentOS 5.2 
32-bit" --summary "32-bit CentOS 5.2 channel"
4. Attempt to join a client to spacewalk (failed)
    Example:
    rhnreg_ks --verbose --force --activationkey="<default key created
with 
spacewalk GUI " --serverUrl http://myspacewalk.server.local/XMLRPC
5. Disabled firewall on spacewalk server.
6. Retry the join (failed)
7. Admin --> Spacewalk Configuration --> Restart (takes about 5 minutes
on 
our system)
8. Verify spacewalk is up and running, then retry join (Success!)

-Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Michael ORourke
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools


I'm currently doing a reinstall, and I plan on taking better notes this 
time.
Strange thing, I was able to register a system with my spacewalk server,
but 
I was not able to join any channels.  Until I created a channel manually

with that script.  Were you able to register a client with your
spacewalk 
server?
I don't remember the exact steps I took to be able to register and join
the 
channel, but I did have it working.  This time around, I should have
some 
better notes that I can share regarding the proceedure.  Hopefully I can
get 
it working again!  :-)

-Mike

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Wojtak, Greg
  To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
  Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 2:04 PM
  Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools


  It sounds like we are having the same problems.  I can't get a channel
  created - when I click on the Manage Entitlement Channels link it
takes
  me to the Overview page, so I had to use the python script to create
the
  channel manually.  Still no go, I can't get a client registered.  I
  asked about it on the Spacewalk list but haven't heard back about that
  particular issue.  How did you get a client registered?

  -----Original Message-----
  From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On
Behalf
  Of Michael ORourke
  Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:33 PM
  To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
  Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools

  Greg,

  You have any luck with Spacewalk?
  It is not an easy tool to install and configure, that's for sure..
  Also, the wiki docs seem a bit disorganized.  It took me several
  attempts to get it installed and working.  Then I had trouble with the
  channels.  Mainly adding clients to a channel.  I was finally able to
  add a client to a channel, populate it with a few RPMs, and push the
  RPMs to the client.  Also, I noticed that the rhnsd client daemon
wakes
  up every 240 minutes (default) and checks the spacewalk server for any
  actions.  I had initially thought that was 240 seconds.  So an "apply
  now" action could really be hours later.

  -Mike
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Wojtak, Greg
    To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
    Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:38 AM
    Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools


    Ah, the holy grail for CentOS/RHEL systems (aside from paying Red
Hat
    $13,000 a year for a satellite server!).

    I am looking for the same thing (and I'm sure any other Linux
Sysadmin
    is) for years.  I'm still using the strategy of "install updates on
  dev
    server, keep the rpm's that were downloaded, move them to test, then
    production, and pray to God that the same packages are in sync
across
    all environments."

    Not very efficient.  I've been looking into building a yum server
and
    configuring the yum-updatesd to download the packages that I roll
out.
    A little better than using cron, but not by much.

    I'd be interested to hear if you find anything.

    Greg Wojtak

    -----Original Message-----
    From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On
  Behalf
    Of Michael ORourke
    Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:29 AM
    To: MDLUG's main mailing list
    Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools

    Lug nuts,

    I'm looking for some recommendations, specifically for the CentOS
5.2
    distribution, for a centralized package management system or tools.
    I've
    spent some time doing vaious Google searches, but haven't found what
I
    was
    looking for aside from basic tools such as 'yum' and 'up2date',
which
    are
    designed to run on a single host.  I was hoping that I would stumble
    upon
    some existing tools that could be leveraged in an existing
  environment.
    What I would really like is:
    * Gui tools (browser based).
    * Internal centralized server (package repository).
    * Centralized management (for development, QA, & production).
    * Ability to schedule updates and manually push updates.
    * Auditing capabilities (which servers have what packages
installed).
    * Ability to manage servers by group (e.g. Dev App servers).

    Running 'yum -update' from cron on each server isn't a good
strategy,
    especially when it comes to production systems.  I would like to
have
    the
    capability to pull down patches to a centralized server, then push
the

    patches/updates to the development/QA environment, and finally out
to
    the
    production systems after testing is completed.
    Is that too much to ask for.  :-)
    Any suggestions/recommendations/ideas?

    Thanks,
    Mike

    _______________________________________________
    mdlug mailing list
    mdlug at mdlug.org
    http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
    _______________________________________________
    mdlug mailing list
    mdlug at mdlug.org
    http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
  ------



    No virus found in this incoming message.
    Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
    Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.12/1822 - Release Date:
  12/1/2008 8:23 AM
  _______________________________________________
  mdlug mailing list
  mdlug at mdlug.org
  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
  _______________________________________________
  mdlug mailing list
  mdlug at mdlug.org
  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


------------------------------------------------------------------------
------



  Internal Virus Database is out of date.
  Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
  Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.14/1829 - Release Date:
12/4/2008 
2:59 PM
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.14/1829 - Release Date:
12/4/2008 
2:59 PM 

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Thu Dec 11 14:31:10 2008
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 14:31:10 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools *update*
In-Reply-To: <E0D22DAEC3124E98A03D8C975B872EE5@AMD2000>
References: <268F49D5ADF245A0924E695327BE5CD8@AMD2000><8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06949009@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com><C7A15735B50F43DA850528AE694CA070@AMD2000><8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06949944@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com><00472CAFC72D4F9F939640A46EE2DEAA@AMD2000>
	<E0D22DAEC3124E98A03D8C975B872EE5@AMD2000>
Message-ID: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06ACC1F4@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

Same results - one thing I did notice in the logs was:

rhnException: ('Could not initialize Oracle database connection',
'exceptions.RuntimeError', 'Unable to acquire Oracle environment
handle')

RHN 14734 2008/12/11 14:26:56 -04:00: ("DATABASE CONNECTION TO 'xe'
LOST", "Exception information: 'NoneType' object has no attribute
'cursor'")

This is from /etc/rhn/satellite-httpd/logs/error_log

Are you seeing the same thing?

Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Michael ORourke
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 8:32 AM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion 
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools *update*

Okay...  here is what I did thus far.
1. Standard install, followed directions on the Wiki.
2. Created a new 'activation key' within Spacewalk GUI.
    Systems --> Activation Keys --> Create new key
    Using these values...
    Description: Default Key
    Key: <blank>
    Usage: <blank>
    Base Channels: Spacewalk Default
    Add-On Entitlements: <nothing checked>
    Universal Default: Checked
3. Created software channel using python script
    Example:
    create_channel.py --label "centos-5.2-i386" --name "CentOS 5.2 
32-bit" --summary "32-bit CentOS 5.2 channel"
4. Attempt to join a client to spacewalk (failed)
    Example:
    rhnreg_ks --verbose --force --activationkey="<default key created
with 
spacewalk GUI " --serverUrl http://myspacewalk.server.local/XMLRPC
5. Disabled firewall on spacewalk server.
6. Retry the join (failed)
7. Admin --> Spacewalk Configuration --> Restart (takes about 5 minutes
on 
our system)
8. Verify spacewalk is up and running, then retry join (Success!)

-Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Michael ORourke
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools


I'm currently doing a reinstall, and I plan on taking better notes this 
time.
Strange thing, I was able to register a system with my spacewalk server,
but 
I was not able to join any channels.  Until I created a channel manually

with that script.  Were you able to register a client with your
spacewalk 
server?
I don't remember the exact steps I took to be able to register and join
the 
channel, but I did have it working.  This time around, I should have
some 
better notes that I can share regarding the proceedure.  Hopefully I can
get 
it working again!  :-)

-Mike

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Wojtak, Greg
  To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
  Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 2:04 PM
  Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools


  It sounds like we are having the same problems.  I can't get a channel
  created - when I click on the Manage Entitlement Channels link it
takes
  me to the Overview page, so I had to use the python script to create
the
  channel manually.  Still no go, I can't get a client registered.  I
  asked about it on the Spacewalk list but haven't heard back about that
  particular issue.  How did you get a client registered?

  -----Original Message-----
  From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On
Behalf
  Of Michael ORourke
  Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:33 PM
  To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
  Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools

  Greg,

  You have any luck with Spacewalk?
  It is not an easy tool to install and configure, that's for sure..
  Also, the wiki docs seem a bit disorganized.  It took me several
  attempts to get it installed and working.  Then I had trouble with the
  channels.  Mainly adding clients to a channel.  I was finally able to
  add a client to a channel, populate it with a few RPMs, and push the
  RPMs to the client.  Also, I noticed that the rhnsd client daemon
wakes
  up every 240 minutes (default) and checks the spacewalk server for any
  actions.  I had initially thought that was 240 seconds.  So an "apply
  now" action could really be hours later.

  -Mike
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Wojtak, Greg
    To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
    Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:38 AM
    Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools


    Ah, the holy grail for CentOS/RHEL systems (aside from paying Red
Hat
    $13,000 a year for a satellite server!).

    I am looking for the same thing (and I'm sure any other Linux
Sysadmin
    is) for years.  I'm still using the strategy of "install updates on
  dev
    server, keep the rpm's that were downloaded, move them to test, then
    production, and pray to God that the same packages are in sync
across
    all environments."

    Not very efficient.  I've been looking into building a yum server
and
    configuring the yum-updatesd to download the packages that I roll
out.
    A little better than using cron, but not by much.

    I'd be interested to hear if you find anything.

    Greg Wojtak

    -----Original Message-----
    From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On
  Behalf
    Of Michael ORourke
    Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:29 AM
    To: MDLUG's main mailing list
    Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools

    Lug nuts,

    I'm looking for some recommendations, specifically for the CentOS
5.2
    distribution, for a centralized package management system or tools.
    I've
    spent some time doing vaious Google searches, but haven't found what
I
    was
    looking for aside from basic tools such as 'yum' and 'up2date',
which
    are
    designed to run on a single host.  I was hoping that I would stumble
    upon
    some existing tools that could be leveraged in an existing
  environment.
    What I would really like is:
    * Gui tools (browser based).
    * Internal centralized server (package repository).
    * Centralized management (for development, QA, & production).
    * Ability to schedule updates and manually push updates.
    * Auditing capabilities (which servers have what packages
installed).
    * Ability to manage servers by group (e.g. Dev App servers).

    Running 'yum -update' from cron on each server isn't a good
strategy,
    especially when it comes to production systems.  I would like to
have
    the
    capability to pull down patches to a centralized server, then push
the

    patches/updates to the development/QA environment, and finally out
to
    the
    production systems after testing is completed.
    Is that too much to ask for.  :-)
    Any suggestions/recommendations/ideas?

    Thanks,
    Mike

    _______________________________________________
    mdlug mailing list
    mdlug at mdlug.org
    http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
    _______________________________________________
    mdlug mailing list
    mdlug at mdlug.org
    http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
  ------



    No virus found in this incoming message.
    Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
    Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.12/1822 - Release Date:
  12/1/2008 8:23 AM
  _______________________________________________
  mdlug mailing list
  mdlug at mdlug.org
  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
  _______________________________________________
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  mdlug at mdlug.org
  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


------------------------------------------------------------------------
------



  Internal Virus Database is out of date.
  Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
  Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.14/1829 - Release Date:
12/4/2008 
2:59 PM
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
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http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.14/1829 - Release Date:
12/4/2008 
2:59 PM 

_______________________________________________
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From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Thu Dec 11 14:43:52 2008
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 14:43:52 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools *update*
Message-ID: <9885011.1229024633192.JavaMail.root@elwamui-sweet.atl.sa.earthlink.net>


Nope... The last few errors I see from that log are as follows:
RHN 14388 2008/12/11 11:52:03 -04:00: ('Server not subscribed to any channels', 1000010000)
RHN 14386 2008/12/11 12:52:03 -04:00: ('Server not subscribed to any channels', 1000010000)
RHN 14393 2008/12/11 12:52:09 -04:00: ('Server not subscribed to any channels', 1000010000)
RHN 14781 2008/12/11 13:52:01 -04:00: ('Server not subscribed to any channels', 1000010000)

>From the sound of your error, I would look closer at the Oracle client settings.  Did you update the oracle parameters per the wiki and restart the oracle instance?

-Mike


-----Original Message-----
>From: "Wojtak, Greg" <GregWojtak at quickenloans.com>
>Sent: Dec 11, 2008 2:31 PM
>To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools *update*
>
>Same results - one thing I did notice in the logs was:
>
>rhnException: ('Could not initialize Oracle database connection',
>'exceptions.RuntimeError', 'Unable to acquire Oracle environment
>handle')
>
>RHN 14734 2008/12/11 14:26:56 -04:00: ("DATABASE CONNECTION TO 'xe'
>LOST", "Exception information: 'NoneType' object has no attribute
>'cursor'")
>
>This is from /etc/rhn/satellite-httpd/logs/error_log
>
>Are you seeing the same thing?
>
>Greg
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
>Of Michael ORourke
>Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 8:32 AM
>To: MDLUG's Main discussion 
>Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools *update*
>
>Okay...  here is what I did thus far.
>1. Standard install, followed directions on the Wiki.
>2. Created a new 'activation key' within Spacewalk GUI.
>    Systems --> Activation Keys --> Create new key
>    Using these values...
>    Description: Default Key
>    Key: <blank>
>    Usage: <blank>
>    Base Channels: Spacewalk Default
>    Add-On Entitlements: <nothing checked>
>    Universal Default: Checked
>3. Created software channel using python script
>    Example:
>    create_channel.py --label "centos-5.2-i386" --name "CentOS 5.2 
>32-bit" --summary "32-bit CentOS 5.2 channel"
>4. Attempt to join a client to spacewalk (failed)
>    Example:
>    rhnreg_ks --verbose --force --activationkey="<default key created
>with 
>spacewalk GUI " --serverUrl http://myspacewalk.server.local/XMLRPC
>5. Disabled firewall on spacewalk server.
>6. Retry the join (failed)
>7. Admin --> Spacewalk Configuration --> Restart (takes about 5 minutes
>on 
>our system)
>8. Verify spacewalk is up and running, then retry join (Success!)
>
>-Mike
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Michael ORourke
>To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
>Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 5:00 PM
>Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools
>
>
>I'm currently doing a reinstall, and I plan on taking better notes this 
>time.
>Strange thing, I was able to register a system with my spacewalk server,
>but 
>I was not able to join any channels.  Until I created a channel manually
>
>with that script.  Were you able to register a client with your
>spacewalk 
>server?
>I don't remember the exact steps I took to be able to register and join
>the 
>channel, but I did have it working.  This time around, I should have
>some 
>better notes that I can share regarding the proceedure.  Hopefully I can
>get 
>it working again!  :-)
>
>-Mike
>
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: Wojtak, Greg
>  To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
>  Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 2:04 PM
>  Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools
>
>
>  It sounds like we are having the same problems.  I can't get a channel
>  created - when I click on the Manage Entitlement Channels link it
>takes
>  me to the Overview page, so I had to use the python script to create
>the
>  channel manually.  Still no go, I can't get a client registered.  I
>  asked about it on the Spacewalk list but haven't heard back about that
>  particular issue.  How did you get a client registered?
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On
>Behalf
>  Of Michael ORourke
>  Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:33 PM
>  To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
>  Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools
>
>  Greg,
>
>  You have any luck with Spacewalk?
>  It is not an easy tool to install and configure, that's for sure..
>  Also, the wiki docs seem a bit disorganized.  It took me several
>  attempts to get it installed and working.  Then I had trouble with the
>  channels.  Mainly adding clients to a channel.  I was finally able to
>  add a client to a channel, populate it with a few RPMs, and push the
>  RPMs to the client.  Also, I noticed that the rhnsd client daemon
>wakes
>  up every 240 minutes (default) and checks the spacewalk server for any
>  actions.  I had initially thought that was 240 seconds.  So an "apply
>  now" action could really be hours later.
>
>  -Mike
>    ----- Original Message ----- 
>    From: Wojtak, Greg
>    To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
>    Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:38 AM
>    Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools
>
>
>    Ah, the holy grail for CentOS/RHEL systems (aside from paying Red
>Hat
>    $13,000 a year for a satellite server!).
>
>    I am looking for the same thing (and I'm sure any other Linux
>Sysadmin
>    is) for years.  I'm still using the strategy of "install updates on
>  dev
>    server, keep the rpm's that were downloaded, move them to test, then
>    production, and pray to God that the same packages are in sync
>across
>    all environments."
>
>    Not very efficient.  I've been looking into building a yum server
>and
>    configuring the yum-updatesd to download the packages that I roll
>out.
>    A little better than using cron, but not by much.
>
>    I'd be interested to hear if you find anything.
>
>    Greg Wojtak
>
>    -----Original Message-----
>    From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On
>  Behalf
>    Of Michael ORourke
>    Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:29 AM
>    To: MDLUG's main mailing list
>    Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools
>
>    Lug nuts,
>
>    I'm looking for some recommendations, specifically for the CentOS
>5.2
>    distribution, for a centralized package management system or tools.
>    I've
>    spent some time doing vaious Google searches, but haven't found what
>I
>    was
>    looking for aside from basic tools such as 'yum' and 'up2date',
>which
>    are
>    designed to run on a single host.  I was hoping that I would stumble
>    upon
>    some existing tools that could be leveraged in an existing
>  environment.
>    What I would really like is:
>    * Gui tools (browser based).
>    * Internal centralized server (package repository).
>    * Centralized management (for development, QA, & production).
>    * Ability to schedule updates and manually push updates.
>    * Auditing capabilities (which servers have what packages
>installed).
>    * Ability to manage servers by group (e.g. Dev App servers).
>
>    Running 'yum -update' from cron on each server isn't a good
>strategy,
>    especially when it comes to production systems.  I would like to
>have
>    the
>    capability to pull down patches to a centralized server, then push
>the
>
>    patches/updates to the development/QA environment, and finally out
>to
>    the
>    production systems after testing is completed.
>    Is that too much to ask for.  :-)
>    Any suggestions/recommendations/ideas?
>
>    Thanks,
>    Mike
>
>    _______________________________________________
>    mdlug mailing list
>    mdlug at mdlug.org
>    http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>    _______________________________________________
>    mdlug mailing list
>    mdlug at mdlug.org
>    http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>
> 
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  ------
>
>
>
>    No virus found in this incoming message.
>    Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>    Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.12/1822 - Release Date:
>  12/1/2008 8:23 AM
>  _______________________________________________
>  mdlug mailing list
>  mdlug at mdlug.org
>  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>  _______________________________________________
>  mdlug mailing list
>  mdlug at mdlug.org
>  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------
>
>
>
>  Internal Virus Database is out of date.
>  Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>  Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.14/1829 - Release Date:
>12/4/2008 
>2:59 PM
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>
>
>
>Internal Virus Database is out of date.
>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.14/1829 - Release Date:
>12/4/2008 
>2:59 PM 
>
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From tesral at comcast.net  Thu Dec 11 14:54:04 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 14:54:04 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] This Saturday
In-Reply-To: <493A04BF.9050208@comcast.net>
References: <493A04BF.9050208@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <49416FDC.1050005@comcast.net>

Do we have an Agenda?


And a repeat.

OK; by now most people know I am keeping a Distro Repository on my
laptop for club use.

I need your help. Keeping the beast current is an effort, and you can
help. If you download the latest update of your favorite distro, burn an
extra copy for me to rip. That takes less time than downloading the
sucker. Also if I have the various members looking out for their pet
distro I'm more likley to have the latest versions for club use.


-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From gib at juno.com  Thu Dec 11 15:49:43 2008
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 20:49:43 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  This Saturday - MDLUG and Free Geek
Message-ID: <20081211.154943.561.0@webmail20.vgs.untd.com>

 
I'm hoping a few folks from Free Geek come in. I'm going to encourage them to stop by the MDLUG meeting.  Perhaps we can talk about the Free Geek concept.
The Free Geek group has a meeting at 10:30 AM Saturday at the Unity Church listed on the web site:
http://MotorCityFreeGeek.com 
Unity Church
28660 Five Mile 
On the North side of Five Mile a bit West of Inkster road. 
Just West of the nursing home. 


-- Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:
Do we have an Agenda?


And a repeat.

OK; by now most people know I am keeping a Distro Repository on my
laptop for club use.

I need your help. Keeping the beast current is an effort, and you can
help. If you download the latest update of your favorite distro, burn an
extra copy for me to rip. That takes less time than downloading the
sucker. Also if I have the various members looking out for their pet
distro I'm more likley to have the latest versions for club use.


-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

____________________________________________________________
Click here to double your salary by becoming a medical transcriber.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/PnY6rbu1Va57e8z8HyU0dBytN6nJj1g8Ta9rRBXO4RBMH3XZODMPa/


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 11 17:31:00 2008
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:31:00 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] This Saturday
In-Reply-To: <49416FDC.1050005@comcast.net>
References: <493A04BF.9050208@comcast.net> <49416FDC.1050005@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380812111431h1cceb9ftda10ce84a56e26f@mail.gmail.com>

--- Garry Stahl wrote:

> OK; by now most people know I am keeping a Distro Repository on my
> laptop for club use.  I need your help. Keeping the beast current is an
> effort, and you can help. If you download the latest update of your
> favorite distro, burn an extra copy for me to rip.

I'll do better than that.  I plan on coming this week with my external
HD with ALL my ISOs on it.  If I make it you can copy what you need.
Name what you need now and I'll try to D/L it by Saturday if I don't
have it already

~~ Michael Rudas
    My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
    My blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com


From gib at juno.com  Thu Dec 11 20:46:02 2008
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 01:46:02 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  This Saturday
Message-ID: <20081211.204602.8768.0@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>


The most recent stable Ubuntu desktop.

-- "Michael Rudas" <audiotech50 at gmail.com> wrote:
--- Garry Stahl wrote:

> OK; by now most people know I am keeping a Distro Repository on my
> laptop for club use.  I need your help. Keeping the beast current is an
> effort, and you can help. If you download the latest update of your
> favorite distro, burn an extra copy for me to rip.

I'll do better than that.  I plan on coming this week with my external
HD with ALL my ISOs on it.  If I make it you can copy what you need.
Name what you need now and I'll try to D/L it by Saturday if I don't
have it already

~~ Michael Rudas
    My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
    My blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


____________________________________________________________
Get the Best Credit Offers - Apply Now!
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From mdlug at wowway.com  Thu Dec 11 23:23:57 2008
From: mdlug at wowway.com (mdlug at wowway.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 22:23:57 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] sound card recommendation?
Message-ID: <20081212042143.M78065@wowway.com>

Hello, I'm looking for a sound card that above all, will be easy to install. 
 Nothing fancy, 2 speakers will do.  

And that's it really.   Thanks, Dean



From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 11 23:38:06 2008
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 23:38:06 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] The 40-year-old mouse
Message-ID: <b67fb0380812112038p5cb0663ewac29a69f0180bd12@mail.gmail.com>

"Celebrating the man who invented the mouse"
<http://www.physorg.com/news148238990.html>

Here's the video of that original ground-breaking event in two formats:
"Douglas Engelbart: The Mother of All Demos (long version)"
<http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8734787622017763097>

"Douglas Engelbart : The Mother of All Demos (1/9)"
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfIgzSoTMOs>

~~ Michael Rudas
    My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
    My blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 11 23:49:08 2008
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 23:49:08 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] sound card recommendation?
In-Reply-To: <20081212042143.M78065@wowway.com>
References: <20081212042143.M78065@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380812112049g77e935ddoa38bd63272fe7240@mail.gmail.com>

--- Dean wrote:

> Hello, I'm looking for a sound card that above all, will be easy to install.

Good soundcards that are easy to install include Creative Labs'
"SoundBlaster Live!" and the Ensoniq-based "SoundBlaster PCI" series
-- they are well-supported under Linux -- you can find good ones used
for as little as $5-10.  They have an advantage over other cheap sound
cards in that they actually have sound processing chips -- most cheap
cards and on-board sound processors use AC '97 codecs that use too
much CPU processing power.  While that's less of an issue now than it
used to be, I still HATE to use CPU cycles for things that are best
off-loaded to dedicated chips...

~~ Michael Rudas
    My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
    My blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Fri Dec 12 09:30:21 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 09:30:21 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] sound card recommendation?
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380812112049g77e935ddoa38bd63272fe7240@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20081212042143.M78065@wowway.com>
	<b67fb0380812112049g77e935ddoa38bd63272fe7240@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B256@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Michael Rudas

> --- Dean wrote:
> > Hello, I'm looking for a sound card that above all, will be easy to
> install.
> 
> Good soundcards that are easy to install include Creative Labs'
> "SoundBlaster Live!" and the Ensoniq-based "SoundBlaster PCI" series
> -- they are well-supported under Linux -- you can find good ones used
> for as little as $5-10.  They have an advantage over other cheap sound
> cards in that they actually have sound processing chips

 The SB Live boards have another nice feature - they support 'hardware
mixing' (or 'multi-open'). That is to say, they have hardware support
for taking multiple sound signals at the same time, and playing them all
at once. This allows multiple programs to play sounds at the same time.

 That's really the only area I can think of where Windows is better off
than Linux, for now. Windows has a sound API that handles mixing sounds
from multiple apps 'behind the scenes'. If the card does it in hardware,
Windows uses that; if not, Windows does it in software.

 Linux *can* do that... but unfortunately, there are multiple sound APIs
which deal with this in slightly different ways. :-/ ALSA and PulseAudio
mostly work together, but each has their own way of emulating OSS,
and...

 If the card can do hardware mixing, though, all the different sound
APIs can think they have the card all to themselves, and not fight over
who's writing to the card at any given moment. Linux sound will settle
down eventually, but it's taking longer than I'd hoped.

Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                          (313) 227-2317

 "If one is going to use standard units, one should do it right and
               use Kelvins. That way nobody is happy."
           - Linux Weekly News, on Fahrenheit vs. Celsius
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Fri Dec 12 10:17:24 2008
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 10:17:24 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] This Saturday
In-Reply-To: <49416FDC.1050005@comcast.net>
References: <493A04BF.9050208@comcast.net> <49416FDC.1050005@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <8aa4d8e50812120717m8498a2bi24762d45a0fde7b2@mail.gmail.com>

Just so everyone knows, openSuSE 11.1 is going to be released next week.

As per last time, KDE4 still is *NOT* ready for every day use (despite whatever
handwaving and other idiotic, self-contradicting claims are coming out of
Aaron Seigo's team... expect more back-pedalling as usual by these....
eh... proper descriptive words are not suitable for this list)

In any event, look for KDE3 (the KDE4-obsessed SuSE team is probably
going to put KDE3 in "other" :-/ )


On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 2:54 PM, Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:
> Do we have an Agenda?
>
>
> And a repeat.
>
> OK; by now most people know I am keeping a Distro Repository on my
> laptop for club use.
>
> I need your help. Keeping the beast current is an effort, and you can
> help. If you download the latest update of your favorite distro, burn an
> extra copy for me to rip. That takes less time than downloading the
> sucker. Also if I have the various members looking out for their pet
> distro I'm more likley to have the latest versions for club use.
>
>
> --
> Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.
>
> Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
> Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
> The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
> Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From robert.citek at gmail.com  Fri Dec 12 10:28:08 2008
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 09:28:08 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] This Saturday - MDLUG and Free Geek
In-Reply-To: <20081211.154943.561.0@webmail20.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20081211.154943.561.0@webmail20.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <4145b6790812120728u6442b648yb57dd320e6a9b87@mail.gmail.com>

Is the MotorCityFreeGeek part of the FreeGeek family?  I ask because I
don't see the MCFG listed on the FreeGeek family page nor on
wikipedia:

http://www.freegeek.org/family.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Geek#Locations

Regards,
- Robert

On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 2:49 PM, gib at juno.com <gib at juno.com> wrote:
>
> I'm hoping a few folks from Free Geek come in. I'm going to encourage them to stop by the MDLUG meeting.  Perhaps we can talk about the Free Geek concept.
> The Free Geek group has a meeting at 10:30 AM Saturday at the Unity Church listed on the web site:
> http://MotorCityFreeGeek.com
> Unity Church
> 28660 Five Mile
> On the North side of Five Mile a bit West of Inkster road.
> Just West of the nursing home.
>
>
> -- Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:
> Do we have an Agenda?
>
>
> And a repeat.
>
> OK; by now most people know I am keeping a Distro Repository on my
> laptop for club use.
>
> I need your help. Keeping the beast current is an effort, and you can
> help. If you download the latest update of your favorite distro, burn an
> extra copy for me to rip. That takes less time than downloading the
> sucker. Also if I have the various members looking out for their pet
> distro I'm more likley to have the latest versions for club use.
>
>
> --
> Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.
>
> Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
> Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
> The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
> Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Click here to double your salary by becoming a medical transcriber.
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/PnY6rbu1Va57e8z8HyU0dBytN6nJj1g8Ta9rRBXO4RBMH3XZODMPa/
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 12 10:33:25 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 07:33:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] This Saturday
References: <493A04BF.9050208@comcast.net> <49416FDC.1050005@comcast.net>
	<8aa4d8e50812120717m8498a2bi24762d45a0fde7b2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <778812.37542.qm@web37902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I have not read up on it. are there any big ticket items on OpenSUSE 11.1?

David C. Lane 




________________________________
From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 10:17:24 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] This Saturday

Just so everyone knows, openSuSE 11.1 is going to be released next week.

As per last time, KDE4 still is *NOT* ready for every day use (despite whatever
handwaving and other idiotic, self-contradicting claims are coming out of
Aaron Seigo's team... expect more back-pedalling as usual by these....
eh... proper descriptive words are not suitable for this list)

In any event, look for KDE3 (the KDE4-obsessed SuSE team is probably
going to put KDE3 in "other" :-/ )


On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 2:54 PM, Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:
> Do we have an Agenda?
>
>
> And a repeat.
>
> OK; by now most people know I am keeping a Distro Repository on my
> laptop for club use.
>
> I need your help. Keeping the beast current is an effort, and you can
> help. If you download the latest update of your favorite distro, burn an
> extra copy for me to rip. That takes less time than downloading the
> sucker. Also if I have the various members looking out for their pet
> distro I'm more likley to have the latest versions for club use.
>
>
> --
> Garry? AKA? --Phoenix--? Rising above the Flames.
>
> Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
> Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
> The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
> Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Fri Dec 12 13:47:35 2008
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:47:35 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] This Saturday
In-Reply-To: <778812.37542.qm@web37902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <493A04BF.9050208@comcast.net> <49416FDC.1050005@comcast.net>
	<8aa4d8e50812120717m8498a2bi24762d45a0fde7b2@mail.gmail.com>
	<778812.37542.qm@web37902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8aa4d8e50812121047n36935680q4aab161cc509b17f@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 10:33 AM, David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I have not read up on it. are there any big ticket items on OpenSUSE 11.1?
>


http://www.opensuse.org/


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 12 15:05:35 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:05:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] This Saturday
References: <493A04BF.9050208@comcast.net> <49416FDC.1050005@comcast.net>
	<8aa4d8e50812120717m8498a2bi24762d45a0fde7b2@mail.gmail.com>
	<778812.37542.qm@web37902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<8aa4d8e50812121047n36935680q4aab161cc509b17f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <292154.39887.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I have 11.0.? when I upgraded the prev. install was wiped out. I'm waiting for 11.2. 

Now if someone knows the SUSEFirewall2, I would love to learn how to set that up for my home network.



David C. Lane 




________________________________
From: Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 1:47:35 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] This Saturday

On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 10:33 AM, David Lane <dcl400m at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I have not read up on it. are there any big ticket items on OpenSUSE 11.1?
>


http://www.opensuse.org/
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      


From gib at juno.com  Fri Dec 12 16:49:33 2008
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 21:49:33 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] This Saturday - MDLUG and Free Geek
Message-ID: <20081212.164933.22449.1@webmail16.vgs.untd.com>


Our intention is to be apart of the FreeGeek family.  We have not announced our intent yet.

-- "Robert Citek" <robert.citek at gmail.com> wrote:
Is the MotorCityFreeGeek part of the FreeGeek family?  I ask because I
don't see the MCFG listed on the FreeGeek family page nor on
wikipedia:

http://www.freegeek.org/family.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Geek#Locations

Regards,
- Robert

On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 2:49 PM, gib at juno.com <gib at juno.com> wrote:
>
> I'm hoping a few folks from Free Geek come in. I'm going to encourage them to stop by the MDLUG meeting.  Perhaps we can talk about the Free Geek concept.
> The Free Geek group has a meeting at 10:30 AM Saturday at the Unity Church listed on the web site:
> http://MotorCityFreeGeek.com
> Unity Church
> 28660 Five Mile
> On the North side of Five Mile a bit West of Inkster road.
> Just West of the nursing home.
>
>
> -- Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:
> Do we have an Agenda?
>
>
> And a repeat.
>
> OK; by now most people know I am keeping a Distro Repository on my
> laptop for club use.
>
> I need your help. Keeping the beast current is an effort, and you can
> help. If you download the latest update of your favorite distro, burn an
> extra copy for me to rip. That takes less time than downloading the
> sucker. Also if I have the various members looking out for their pet
> distro I'm more likley to have the latest versions for club use.
>
>
> --
> Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.
>
> Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
> Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
> The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
> Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Click here to double your salary by becoming a medical transcriber.
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/PnY6rbu1Va57e8z8HyU0dBytN6nJj1g8Ta9rRBXO4RBMH3XZODMPa/
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




From gib at juno.com  Fri Dec 12 16:52:36 2008
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 21:52:36 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  sound card recommendation?
Message-ID: <20081212.165236.22449.2@webmail16.vgs.untd.com>


I have to suggest that I could not get Windows to handle both my microphone and guitar input at the same time.  Linux did it fine.  

-- "Ingles, Raymond" <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:
> From: Michael Rudas

> --- Dean wrote:
> > Hello, I'm looking for a sound card that above all, will be easy to
> install.
> 
> Good soundcards that are easy to install include Creative Labs'
> "SoundBlaster Live!" and the Ensoniq-based "SoundBlaster PCI" series
> -- they are well-supported under Linux -- you can find good ones used
> for as little as $5-10.  They have an advantage over other cheap sound
> cards in that they actually have sound processing chips

 The SB Live boards have another nice feature - they support 'hardware
mixing' (or 'multi-open'). That is to say, they have hardware support
for taking multiple sound signals at the same time, and playing them all
at once. This allows multiple programs to play sounds at the same time.

 That's really the only area I can think of where Windows is better off
than Linux, for now. Windows has a sound API that handles mixing sounds
from multiple apps 'behind the scenes'. If the card does it in hardware,
Windows uses that; if not, Windows does it in software.

 Linux *can* do that... but unfortunately, there are multiple sound APIs
which deal with this in slightly different ways. :-/ ALSA and PulseAudio
mostly work together, but each has their own way of emulating OSS,
and...

 If the card can do hardware mixing, though, all the different sound
APIs can think they have the card all to themselves, and not fight over
who's writing to the card at any given moment. Linux sound will settle
down eventually, but it's taking longer than I'd hoped.

Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                          (313) 227-2317

 "If one is going to use standard units, one should do it right and
               use Kelvins. That way nobody is happy."
           - Linux Weekly News, on Fahrenheit vs. Celsius
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.
_______________________________________________
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____________________________________________________________
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From driveray at ameritech.net  Fri Dec 12 17:17:33 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 17:17:33 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] This Saturday - MDLUG and Free Geek
In-Reply-To: <20081212.164933.22449.1@webmail16.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20081212.164933.22449.1@webmail16.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <4942E2FD.9020802@ameritech.net>

gib at juno.com wrote:
> Our intention is to be apart of the FreeGeek family.  We have not announced our intent yet.

I think you mean "... a part of ..." not "apart [from] ... " :-)


> -- "Robert Citek" <robert.citek at gmail.com> wrote:
> Is the MotorCityFreeGeek part of the FreeGeek family?  I ask because I
> don't see the MCFG listed on the FreeGeek family page nor on
> wikipedia:
> 
> http://www.freegeek.org/family.php
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Geek#Locations
> 
> Regards,
> - Robert
> 


From gib at juno.com  Sat Dec 13 08:31:48 2008
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 13:31:48 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] This Saturday - MDLUG and Free Geek
Message-ID: <20081213.083148.16469.0@webmail14.vgs.untd.com>


Yes, thank you.  I meant we intend to be a part of the Free Geek family.  Interesting how a typo, space (nothing really) can change the meaning.

-- Raymond McLaughlin <driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
gib at juno.com wrote:
> Our intention is to be apart of the FreeGeek family.  We have not announced our intent yet.

I think you mean "... a part of ..." not "apart [from] ... " :-)


> -- "Robert Citek" <robert.citek at gmail.com> wrote:
> Is the MotorCityFreeGeek part of the FreeGeek family?  I ask because I
> don't see the MCFG listed on the FreeGeek family page nor on
> wikipedia:
> 
> http://www.freegeek.org/family.php
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Geek#Locations
> 
> Regards,
> - Robert
> 
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


____________________________________________________________
Be more successful with these great CRM solutions. Click now!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/PnY6rbvXafcxg6XS6D3KiobcxXvhwdxATcplreC2YJgbowM1ZdjiE/


From fulner at gmail.com  Sat Dec 13 11:10:11 2008
From: fulner at gmail.com (Robert Jim Fulner)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 11:10:11 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Problems with upgrade?
Message-ID: <c768576f0812130810v150d14d8ifd7bec3cea842b8f@mail.gmail.com>

Befor going to bed last night I set my pc to do an upgrade from
xubuntu 8.07 lts to 8.10. When I woke up this morning my screen was
dead. I can't wake it up, and turning off and on the monitor did
nothing. Would it be safe in this situation to hard boot the system or
is there a better alternative.

Jim

-- 
Sent from my mobile device


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sat Dec 13 12:08:56 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 12:08:56 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Problems with upgrade?
In-Reply-To: <c768576f0812130810v150d14d8ifd7bec3cea842b8f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c768576f0812130810v150d14d8ifd7bec3cea842b8f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90812130908tbcbd5f0r6face49d3cec29e1@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Robert Jim Fulner <fulner at gmail.com> wrote:
> Befor going to bed last night I set my pc to do an upgrade from
> xubuntu 8.07 lts to 8.10. When I woke up this morning my screen was
> dead. I can't wake it up, and turning off and on the monitor did
> nothing. Would it be safe in this situation to hard boot the system or
> is there a better alternative.

Best solution is to SSH in  from an other system and see what is
happening.  Next option is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 13 18:45:48 2008
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 18:45:48 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Problems with upgrade?
In-Reply-To: <c768576f0812130810v150d14d8ifd7bec3cea842b8f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c768576f0812130810v150d14d8ifd7bec3cea842b8f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380812131545t4fd03b5sce58f718a7f7ef18@mail.gmail.com>

--- Robert Jim Fulner wrote:

> Before going to bed last night I set my PC to do an upgrade from
> xubuntu 8.07 lts to 8.10. When I woke up this morning my screen was
> dead. I can't wake it up, and turning off and on the monitor did
> nothing. Would it be safe in this situation to hard boot the system or
> is there a better alternative?

It's EXTREMELY likely that your upgrade caused your video output to
switch to a signal that's out-of-band for your LCD monitor.  If you
still have a CRT monitor around, plug it in in place of your LCD and
switch the resolution and vertical scan rate to one that's compatible
with your current monitor.

~~ Michael Rudas
    My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
    My blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 13 19:55:10 2008
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 19:55:10 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Windows humor (plus)
Message-ID: <b67fb0380812131655n3ebecba2u4baec3736f313d8@mail.gmail.com>

Based on a request at today's meeting, I'm reposting links to a couple
of VERY funny Windows-related videos:

"The Matrix Runs On Windows -- Take the red pill. Get the blue screen."
<http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1886349>
"I hope you have cookies enabled." LOL

"Vista Sucks"
<http://blip.tv/file/340692>

Here's a couple that are NOT computer-related, but VERY amusing:

"Almost Transformers -- Whitegoods In Disguise"
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ma_Cwh9VW1E>

"Solid Potato Salad - The Ross Sisters"
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DJVSP3N5a4>
At about 60 seconds in, things get VERY strange...

~~ Michael Rudas
    My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
    My blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com


From fulner at gmail.com  Sun Dec 14 14:29:40 2008
From: fulner at gmail.com (Robert Jim Fulner)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 14:29:40 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Problems with upgrade?
Message-ID: <c768576f0812141129i3eedee88q2bc2981274fe455d@mail.gmail.com>

Of course, you assumed I had an LCD. Those cost $ so I don't have one. Every
component of my machine is at least 10 years old. Which is the real reason I
run Linux, and Xubuntu specifically. (I actually prefer the look feel, and
functionality of Mandriva, but XFCE is designed to be less intensive).

Anyway, when I told it to upgrade I never put in my password, so it never
started, and apparently it just gave up, when I rebooted everything was fine
and I had a note that the upgrade hadn't started.

I've always been hesitant about upgrades, you know the old "If it ain't
broke don't fix it." But all the forums I read say with Linux its incredibly
important  to stay as up to date as possible.

Jim

P.S. It was nice meeting many of you all yesterday.


From mdlug at wowway.com  Sun Dec 14 20:35:30 2008
From: mdlug at wowway.com (mdlug at wowway.com)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 19:35:30 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] wanted to buy - sound card
Message-ID: <20081215013302.M94296@wowway.com>


Hello, if anyone has a sound card that they are pretty sure works with Linux,
and they would be willing to sell it, if it is a basic or entry level, I will
buy it.   Mean, I don't need anything special.  I don't want to have to fight
with it though.    I spent time trying to get the built-in audio on a
"Winfast" mobo to work, and I don't think it's possible.  

Thanks, Dean

--
WOW! Homepage (http://www.wowway.com)



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Sun Dec 14 21:37:52 2008
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 21:37:52 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] wanted to buy - sound card
In-Reply-To: <20081215013302.M94296@wowway.com>
References: <20081215013302.M94296@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <4945C300.9040308@gmail.com>

mdlug at wowway.com wrote:
> Hello, if anyone has a sound card that they are pretty sure works with Linux,
> and they would be willing to sell it, if it is a basic or entry level, I will
> buy it.   Mean, I don't need anything special.  I don't want to have to fight
> with it though.    I spent time trying to get the built-in audio on a
> "Winfast" mobo to work, and I don't think it's possible.  
>

I might have a PCI sound card around.


From tony at bemushosting.com  Mon Dec 15 08:14:16 2008
From: tony at bemushosting.com (Tony Bemus)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 08:14:16 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] 486 processor
In-Reply-To: <4945C300.9040308@gmail.com>
References: <20081215013302.M94296@wowway.com>  <4945C300.9040308@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1229346856.23256.2.camel@bemus-tony>

At the meeting yesterday someone mentioned that they knew someone that
needed a 486 processor.

I just found one and it is free for who needs it.

Intel A80486SX-25 is the exact model that is printed on the processor.

-  
Tony Bemus




From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Mon Dec 15 09:16:04 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 09:16:04 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] sound card recommendation?
In-Reply-To: <20081212.165236.22449.2@webmail16.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20081212.165236.22449.2@webmail16.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B258@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: gib at juno.com

> I have to suggest that I could not get Windows to handle both my
> microphone and guitar input at the same time.  Linux did it fine.

 It's not that Linux has *bad* sound APIs. Linux just has *too many*
sound APIs that don't always play well together. At the very least,
you've got ALSA, PulseAudio, and JACK. Lots of apps that have been
around a while use older APIs, like OSS or ESD or aRTs or...

 Here's an article that talks about many of the APIs and their intended
usage:

 http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/guide-to-sound-apis.html

 This will settle down eventually, but I think we've got a couple more
years of pain to get through.

Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                         (313) 227-2317

  Republicans... preach our sacred duty to the army's morale and
  simultaneously cancel $15 billion in veteran's benefits and 60
 percent of federal education subsidies for servicemen's children.
      If you can't believe that, look it up. - Hal Crowther
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Mon Dec 15 09:22:00 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 09:22:00 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] wanted to buy - sound card
In-Reply-To: <20081215013302.M94296@wowway.com>
References: <20081215013302.M94296@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B259@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: mdlug at wowway.com

> Hello, if anyone has a sound card that they are pretty sure works with
> Linux, and they would be willing to sell it, if it is a basic or entry
> level, I will buy it.

 Like Aaron, I'll check tonight. I'm pretty sure I've got a couple basic
PCI sound cards laying around. You can have 'em for free.

Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                 (313) 227-2317

  "A troll is someone who, finding that no-one likes them,
  decides to pretend that it's on purpose." - Paul Crowley
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Mon Dec 15 10:22:59 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 10:22:59 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP vs Toshiba
Message-ID: <20081215102259.16d9caa4@Nokia-N800-23-14>

Good Morning All,
    I have a real dilema now that prices are coming down, apparently
quite a bit. I could replace the 17" Toshiba Satellite I just got last
year with a comparable 17" HP notebook for about 2/3 of what I paid last
year. The user has never really liked the Toshiba and neither have I. I
would most likely sell the Toshiba if I did buy the HP. I would be
moving to an AMD processor from an Intel but other than that pretty
much vanilla from what I've seen so far. Given that HP typically is
much friendlier to Linux than Toshiba I'm thinking this might be a good
move. Anybody have any thoughts on this? Any particular things I need
to steer clear of?

Best Regards,
-- 
?Peter The Plumber sm on the road

Sent from a mobile Internet Tablet


From muteid10t at gmail.com  Mon Dec 15 11:07:38 2008
From: muteid10t at gmail.com (Ron Blanchett)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 11:07:38 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP vs Toshiba
In-Reply-To: <20081215102259.16d9caa4@Nokia-N800-23-14>
References: <20081215102259.16d9caa4@Nokia-N800-23-14>
Message-ID: <52995d720812150807h7d355c35hc7e9ce47f3a2bd74@mail.gmail.com>

The only thing I would steer clear of is the Toshiba.


On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 10:22 AM, Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>wrote:

> Good Morning All,
>    I have a real dilema now that prices are coming down, apparently
> quite a bit. I could replace the 17" Toshiba Satellite I just got last
> year with a comparable 17" HP notebook for about 2/3 of what I paid last
> year. The user has never really liked the Toshiba and neither have I. I
> would most likely sell the Toshiba if I did buy the HP. I would be
> moving to an AMD processor from an Intel but other than that pretty
> much vanilla from what I've seen so far. Given that HP typically is
> much friendlier to Linux than Toshiba I'm thinking this might be a good
> move. Anybody have any thoughts on this? Any particular things I need
> to steer clear of?
>
> Best Regards,
> --
> ?Peter The Plumber sm on the road
>
> Sent from a mobile Internet Tablet
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




-- 

Bob Hope  - "I don't feel old. I don't feel anything till noon. That's when
it's time for my nap."

From peter at petertheplumber.net  Mon Dec 15 11:30:31 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 11:30:31 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP vs Toshiba
In-Reply-To: <52995d720812150807h7d355c35hc7e9ce47f3a2bd74@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20081215102259.16d9caa4@Nokia-N800-23-14>
	<52995d720812150807h7d355c35hc7e9ce47f3a2bd74@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20081215113031.4caead84@Nokia-N800-23-14>

On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 11:07:38 -0500
"Ron Blanchett" <muteid10t at gmail.com> wrote:

> The only thing I would steer clear of is the Toshiba.
> 

    For someone of my limited expertise, I would have to agree. There
are some fans of Toshiba that have Linux working well but not I. Which
is why I'm seriously thinking about biting the bullet. I have the
recovery discs, original box etc for the Toshiba, so I can restore it to
original as shipped condition and get rid of it.

Best Regards,

-- 
?Peter The Plumber sm on the road
Sent from a mobile Internet Tablet


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Mon Dec 15 11:38:54 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 11:38:54 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP printer working well
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B25B@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

I like that HP specifically makes Linux drivers available for most of
their printers and updates them. My parents old printer died, and
looking at circular deals, I had them pick up an HP C5580; the printer
itself worked out of the box, my father (who's not a computer type) had
no trouble. The scanner didn't work at first (they're running an older
Ubuntu) but I was able to download and install the latest HP Linux
drivers and it was quite straightforward.

 Just offering a datapoint.

Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                             (313) 227-2317

 "As it stands now, for the vast majority of the populace, selecting a
 leader is like deciding which dishwasher detergent to purchase at the
 grocery store. You have a couple of brands with big, flashy, colorful
      boxes, that smell the same, look the same, and are probably
           manufactured by the same company." - Dan J. Rempe
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 15 11:49:02 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 08:49:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] HP printer working well
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B25B@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <543824.5833.qm@web37907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Yes, I had lots of problems with other printers.? 

Yet there were 2 successes that I Experenced.

1.? Suse 7.0 a few years ago.? I loaded Suse 7.0 on an older IBM I was working on a project and I added a networked printer Xerox and it worked I just put in a like model because that one printer was not on the list.

2. I had Suse 10.3 and needed to print.? The Canon and lexmark printers that I had did not work.? So there was this HP DJ1415? At Big Lots. It worked great. 

I even saw an HP tool for Linux.? 

I just wish it was that easy for WiFi Cards.

David C. Lane 



________________________________
From: "Ingles, Raymond" <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com>
To: mdlug at mdlug.org
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 11:38:54 AM
Subject: [mdlug] HP printer working well

I like that HP specifically makes Linux drivers available for most of
their printers and updates them. My parents old printer died, and
looking at circular deals, I had them pick up an HP C5580; the printer
itself worked out of the box, my father (who's not a computer type) had
no trouble. The scanner didn't work at first (they're running an older
Ubuntu) but I was able to download and install the latest HP Linux
drivers and it was quite straightforward.

Just offering a datapoint.

Sincerely,

Ray Ingles? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? (313) 227-2317

"As it stands now, for the vast majority of the populace, selecting a
leader is like deciding which dishwasher detergent to purchase at the
grocery store. You have a couple of brands with big, flashy, colorful
? ? ? boxes, that smell the same, look the same, and are probably
? ? ? ? ? manufactured by the same company." - Dan J. Rempe
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



      


From tesral at comcast.net  Mon Dec 15 11:50:32 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 11:50:32 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP vs Toshiba
In-Reply-To: <20081215102259.16d9caa4@Nokia-N800-23-14>
References: <20081215102259.16d9caa4@Nokia-N800-23-14>
Message-ID: <49468AD8.6030002@comcast.net>

Peter Bart wrote:
> Anybody have any thoughts on this? Any particular things I need
> to steer clear of?
>
> Best Regards,
>   

If it works, why fix it?  Unless the HP is a considerable horse power
improvement, why?  Is the Toshiba working?  Does it do the task?

What are you getting for you money other than a change in brand?

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From peter at petertheplumber.net  Mon Dec 15 11:57:52 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 11:57:52 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP printer working well
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B25B@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B25B@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <20081215115752.3a07cb22@Nokia-N800-23-14>

On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 11:38:54 -0500
"Ingles, Raymond" <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:

> I like that HP specifically makes Linux drivers available for most of
> their printers and updates them. My parents old printer died, and
> looking at circular deals, I had them pick up an HP C5580; the printer
> itself worked out of the box, my father (who's not a computer type)
> had no trouble. The scanner didn't work at first (they're running an
> older Ubuntu) but I was able to download and install the latest HP
> Linux drivers and it was quite straightforward.
> 
>  Just offering a datapoint.
> 
	
	Thanks Ray, I wish I had gone with the HP last year. My
hindsight is great but at least I know now. 

Best Regards,
 
-- 
___Peter The Plumber sm on the road

Sent from a mobile Internet Tablet


From driveray at ameritech.net  Mon Dec 15 12:19:37 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 12:19:37 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP printer working well
In-Reply-To: <20081215115752.3a07cb22@Nokia-N800-23-14>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B25B@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<20081215115752.3a07cb22@Nokia-N800-23-14>
Message-ID: <494691A9.6070900@ameritech.net>

Peter Bart wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 11:38:54 -0500
> "Ingles, Raymond" <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:
> 
>> I like that HP specifically makes Linux drivers available for most of
>> their printers and updates them. My parents old printer died, and
>> looking at circular deals, I had them pick up an HP C5580; the printer
>> itself worked out of the box, my father (who's not a computer type)
>> had no trouble. The scanner didn't work at first (they're running an
>> older Ubuntu) but I was able to download and install the latest HP
>> Linux drivers and it was quite straightforward.
>>
>>  Just offering a datapoint.
>>
> 	
> 	Thanks Ray, I wish I had gone with the HP last year. My
> hindsight is great but at least I know now. 
> 
> Best Regards,
>  

Last year I did go with an HP DV9000 series laptop. Everything but the 
Ricoh card reader work perfectly, until about 2 weeks after the the one 
year warranty expired. Then the NVidia video failed. I can boot to 
command line, but even there the text characters look "worm eaten" and 
sketchy. Most of the time X will not start, the error is:"could not 
initialize NVidia /dev/nvidia0" (or words very much like that.) Even the 
HP logo at the first power up splash, and the bois screens look "off".

I'm looking to get a second opinion, but I think I'll need to replace 
the motherboard. :(

Other than that, it worked great!

Raymond McLaughlin


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Mon Dec 15 12:53:48 2008
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 12:53:48 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP printer working well
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B25B@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B25B@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <494699AC.1030402@gmail.com>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
> I like that HP specifically makes Linux drivers available for most of
> their printers and updates them. My parents old printer died, and
> looking at circular deals, I had them pick up an HP C5580; the printer
> itself worked out of the box, my father (who's not a computer type) had
> no trouble. The scanner didn't work at first (they're running an older
> Ubuntu) but I was able to download and install the latest HP Linux
> drivers and it was quite straightforward.
> 
>  Just offering a datapoint.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 

I can also recommend Brother as having good Linux support
on the Company website.  I've also been happy with Epson,
even though they don't explicitly support Linux, they do
release their specs so that programmers can write proper
software.

In contrast, avoid Canon.  You'll be lucky to use any of
their equipment past 720x720dpi, and CcMmYK is out of the
question, as Canon's printer division thinks that they're
in the driver software business, not the printer business.

This is sad, because I've been using Canon photographic
equipment for close to 20 years.


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Mon Dec 15 14:19:53 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 14:19:53 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP vs Toshiba
In-Reply-To: <49468AD8.6030002@comcast.net>
References: <20081215102259.16d9caa4@Nokia-N800-23-14>
	<49468AD8.6030002@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20081215141953.0626e787@Nokia-N800-23-14>

On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 11:50:32 -0500
Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:

> Peter Bart wrote:
> > Anybody have any thoughts on this? Any particular things I need
> > to steer clear of?
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >   
> 
> If it works, why fix it?

	Because it doesn't fit the way the user uses it. The volume
thumb wheel is constantly inadvertently getting bumped and the touchpad
has allways been very touchy for ex.

>  Unless the HP is a considerable horse power
> improvement, why?  Is the Toshiba working?

    Not the way I feel it should. Suspend/resume have never worked, and
Toshiba does not seem very Linux friendly for ex. 

>  Does it do the task?

 No
> 
> What are you getting for you money other than a change in brand?
> 

    A larger community of Linux users from which to draw on for those
unavoidable problem areas. The Toshiba Linux community is almost non
existant. What is there is almost exclusively in another language.

Best Regards,
-- 
___Peter The Plumber sm on the road
State Licensed Master Plumber
State Certified Backflow Device Tester
Factory Trained Boiler Install/Service
NIOSH/OSHA/MIOSHA Trained Confined Space Entry

<http://petertheplumber.net>
24h Service 313.215.5175

Sent from a mobile Internet Tablet


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Mon Dec 15 14:28:42 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 14:28:42 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP printer working well
In-Reply-To: <494691A9.6070900@ameritech.net>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B25B@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<20081215115752.3a07cb22@Nokia-N800-23-14>
	<494691A9.6070900@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <20081215142842.40b3183b@Nokia-N800-23-14>

On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 12:19:37 -0500
Raymond McLaughlin <driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:

> Peter Bart wrote:
> > On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 11:38:54 -0500
> > "Ingles, Raymond" <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:
<snip>
> Last year I did go with an HP DV9000 series laptop. Everything but
> the Ricoh card reader work perfectly, until about 2 weeks after the
> the one year warranty expired. Then the NVidia video failed. I can
> boot to command line, but even there the text characters look "worm
> eaten" and sketchy. Most of the time X will not start, the error
> is:"could not initialize NVidia /dev/nvidia0" (or words very much
> like that.) Even the HP logo at the first power up splash, and the
> bois screens look "off".
> 
> I'm looking to get a second opinion, but I think I'll need to replace 
> the motherboard. :(

	That's a real bummer, maybe HP will stretch the warranty? That
would mean calling their customer diservice dept, I have my own horror
stories there. I was looking at a similar model last year but picked the
Toshiba. I'll have to look closely at the extended warranty if I do
switch.

Best Regards,
-- 
___Peter The Plumber sm on the road

Sent from a mobile Internet Tablet


From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Mon Dec 15 14:51:59 2008
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 14:51:59 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools *update*
References: <268F49D5ADF245A0924E695327BE5CD8@AMD2000><8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06949009@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com><C7A15735B50F43DA850528AE694CA070@AMD2000><8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06949944@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com><00472CAFC72D4F9F939640A46EE2DEAA@AMD2000><E0D22DAEC3124E98A03D8C975B872EE5@AMD2000>
	<8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE06ACC1F4@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
Message-ID: <BB2C163C6A5A445CA3124D4C82E66883@AMD2000>

Greg,

Any success yet?  

I did notice something in the docs... they suggested creating an activation key and assign it to a base channel.  Which I did, and it worked.  However, I did a "--force" when I joined the base channel with the new key and it created a duplicate system entry in the spacewalk database.  Also, I installed and configured the osad client to enable remote activities to be scheduled immediately. Having duplicate server names did not initially cause a problem until I deleted one.  Which evidently was the one that was using some unique identifier that allowed osad to funtion properly.  After updating the server id on the client, I was able to get osad working again.

-Mike

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Wojtak, Greg 
  To: MDLUG's Main discussion list 
  Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 2:31 PM
  Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools *update*


  Same results - one thing I did notice in the logs was:

  rhnException: ('Could not initialize Oracle database connection',
  'exceptions.RuntimeError', 'Unable to acquire Oracle environment
  handle')

  RHN 14734 2008/12/11 14:26:56 -04:00: ("DATABASE CONNECTION TO 'xe'
  LOST", "Exception information: 'NoneType' object has no attribute
  'cursor'")

  This is from /etc/rhn/satellite-httpd/logs/error_log

  Are you seeing the same thing?

  Greg

  -----Original Message-----
  From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
  Of Michael ORourke
  Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 8:32 AM
  To: MDLUG's Main discussion 
  Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools *update*

  Okay...  here is what I did thus far.
  1. Standard install, followed directions on the Wiki.
  2. Created a new 'activation key' within Spacewalk GUI.
      Systems --> Activation Keys --> Create new key
      Using these values...
      Description: Default Key
      Key: <blank>
      Usage: <blank>
      Base Channels: Spacewalk Default
      Add-On Entitlements: <nothing checked>
      Universal Default: Checked
  3. Created software channel using python script
      Example:
      create_channel.py --label "centos-5.2-i386" --name "CentOS 5.2 
  32-bit" --summary "32-bit CentOS 5.2 channel"
  4. Attempt to join a client to spacewalk (failed)
      Example:
      rhnreg_ks --verbose --force --activationkey="<default key created
  with 
  spacewalk GUI " --serverUrl http://myspacewalk.server.local/XMLRPC
  5. Disabled firewall on spacewalk server.
  6. Retry the join (failed)
  7. Admin --> Spacewalk Configuration --> Restart (takes about 5 minutes
  on 
  our system)
  8. Verify spacewalk is up and running, then retry join (Success!)

  -Mike

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Michael ORourke
  To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
  Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 5:00 PM
  Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools


  I'm currently doing a reinstall, and I plan on taking better notes this 
  time.
  Strange thing, I was able to register a system with my spacewalk server,
  but 
  I was not able to join any channels.  Until I created a channel manually

  with that script.  Were you able to register a client with your
  spacewalk 
  server?
  I don't remember the exact steps I took to be able to register and join
  the 
  channel, but I did have it working.  This time around, I should have
  some 
  better notes that I can share regarding the proceedure.  Hopefully I can
  get 
  it working again!  :-)

  -Mike

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Wojtak, Greg
    To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
    Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 2:04 PM
    Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools


    It sounds like we are having the same problems.  I can't get a channel
    created - when I click on the Manage Entitlement Channels link it
  takes
    me to the Overview page, so I had to use the python script to create
  the
    channel manually.  Still no go, I can't get a client registered.  I
    asked about it on the Spacewalk list but haven't heard back about that
    particular issue.  How did you get a client registered?

    -----Original Message-----
    From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On
  Behalf
    Of Michael ORourke
    Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:33 PM
    To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
    Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools

    Greg,

    You have any luck with Spacewalk?
    It is not an easy tool to install and configure, that's for sure..
    Also, the wiki docs seem a bit disorganized.  It took me several
    attempts to get it installed and working.  Then I had trouble with the
    channels.  Mainly adding clients to a channel.  I was finally able to
    add a client to a channel, populate it with a few RPMs, and push the
    RPMs to the client.  Also, I noticed that the rhnsd client daemon
  wakes
    up every 240 minutes (default) and checks the spacewalk server for any
    actions.  I had initially thought that was 240 seconds.  So an "apply
    now" action could really be hours later.

    -Mike
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Wojtak, Greg
      To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
      Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:38 AM
      Subject: Re: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools


      Ah, the holy grail for CentOS/RHEL systems (aside from paying Red
  Hat
      $13,000 a year for a satellite server!).

      I am looking for the same thing (and I'm sure any other Linux
  Sysadmin
      is) for years.  I'm still using the strategy of "install updates on
    dev
      server, keep the rpm's that were downloaded, move them to test, then
      production, and pray to God that the same packages are in sync
  across
      all environments."

      Not very efficient.  I've been looking into building a yum server
  and
      configuring the yum-updatesd to download the packages that I roll
  out.
      A little better than using cron, but not by much.

      I'd be interested to hear if you find anything.

      Greg Wojtak

      -----Original Message-----
      From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On
    Behalf
      Of Michael ORourke
      Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:29 AM
      To: MDLUG's main mailing list
      Subject: [mdlug] Centralized package management tools

      Lug nuts,

      I'm looking for some recommendations, specifically for the CentOS
  5.2
      distribution, for a centralized package management system or tools.
      I've
      spent some time doing vaious Google searches, but haven't found what
  I
      was
      looking for aside from basic tools such as 'yum' and 'up2date',
  which
      are
      designed to run on a single host.  I was hoping that I would stumble
      upon
      some existing tools that could be leveraged in an existing
    environment.
      What I would really like is:
      * Gui tools (browser based).
      * Internal centralized server (package repository).
      * Centralized management (for development, QA, & production).
      * Ability to schedule updates and manually push updates.
      * Auditing capabilities (which servers have what packages
  installed).
      * Ability to manage servers by group (e.g. Dev App servers).

      Running 'yum -update' from cron on each server isn't a good
  strategy,
      especially when it comes to production systems.  I would like to
  have
      the
      capability to pull down patches to a centralized server, then push
  the

      patches/updates to the development/QA environment, and finally out
  to
      the
      production systems after testing is completed.
      Is that too much to ask for.  :-)
      Any suggestions/recommendations/ideas?

      Thanks,
      Mike

      _______________________________________________
      mdlug mailing list
      mdlug at mdlug.org
      http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
      _______________________________________________
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      mdlug at mdlug.org
      http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


   
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From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Mon Dec 15 18:21:09 2008
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 18:21:09 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP printer working well
In-Reply-To: <494691A9.6070900@ameritech.net>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B25B@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<20081215115752.3a07cb22@Nokia-N800-23-14>
	<494691A9.6070900@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380812151521u1c1f6aa9s340be974d8301bc5@mail.gmail.com>

--- Raymond McLaughlin wrote:

> Last year I did go with an HP DV9000 series laptop. Everything but the
> Ricoh card reader work perfectly, until about 2 weeks after the the one
> year warranty expired. Then the NVidia video failed. I can boot to
> command line, but even there the text characters look "worm eaten" and
> sketchy.

There's a known problem with certain nV laptop-graphics chips -- they
were improperly manufactured (a package-design error) that caused a
drastically-increased failure rate due to thermal cycling.  Several
manufacturers were stung by this; to my knowledge, nobody is taking
responsibility -- in fact, most manufacturers that used the affected
chipsets merely issued patches that force the cooling fans to run
continuously, thus causing the chips to fail AFTER the warranty
expires.  I'm not sure if there are any lawsuits over this, but there
SHOULD be...
"Summarizing the Nvidia problems with laptop chips overheating"
<http://news.cnet.com/8301-13554_3-10020782-33.html>

~~ Michael Rudas
    My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
    My blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com


From micorral at comcast.net  Mon Dec 15 23:02:43 2008
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 23:02:43 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] 486 processor
In-Reply-To: <1229346856.23256.2.camel@bemus-tony>
References: <20081215013302.M94296@wowway.com> <4945C300.9040308@gmail.com>
	<1229346856.23256.2.camel@bemus-tony>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0812152301450.2246@banana.sluggo.net>

2008-12-15, Monsieur Tony Bemus a ecrit:
> At the meeting yesterday someone mentioned that they knew someone that
> needed a 486 processor.
>
> Intel A80486SX-25 is the exact model that is printed on the processor.

Not even the dignity of a math co-processor! Aaargh.

Michael


From micorral at comcast.net  Tue Dec 16 00:02:14 2008
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 00:02:14 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] wanted to buy - sound card
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B259@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <20081215013302.M94296@wowway.com>
	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B259@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0812152359490.2246@banana.sluggo.net>

2008-12-15, Monsieur Ingles, Raymond a ecrit:
>> From: mdlug at wowway.com
>> Hello, if anyone has a sound card that they are pretty sure works with
>> Linux, and they would be willing to sell it, if it is a basic or entry
>> level, I will buy it.
>
> Like Aaron, I'll check tonight. I'm pretty sure I've got a couple basic
> PCI sound cards laying around. You can have 'em for free.

I have a few PCI sound cards I don't need either, and some ISA ones too.
They're available for free. I have way too much crap. :)

Michael


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Tue Dec 16 00:01:47 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 00:01:47 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP printer working well
In-Reply-To: <494691A9.6070900@ameritech.net>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B25B@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<20081215115752.3a07cb22@Nokia-N800-23-14>
	<494691A9.6070900@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90812152101k373fe4aasd20feb9ceb76d817@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 12:19 PM, Raymond McLaughlin
<driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
> Last year I did go with an HP DV9000 series laptop. Everything but the
> Ricoh card reader work perfectly, until about 2 weeks after the the one
> year warranty expired. Then the NVidia video failed. I can boot to
> command line, but even there the text characters look "worm eaten" and
> sketchy. Most of the time X will not start, the error is:"could not
> initialize NVidia /dev/nvidia0" (or words very much like that.) Even the
> HP logo at the first power up splash, and the bois screens look "off".
>
> I'm looking to get a second opinion, but I think I'll need to replace
> the motherboard. :(
>
> Other than that, it worked great!
>

You're not alone.  Just search with Google for "bad nvidia gpu".  It's
why I went with a Radeon for a recent purchase.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Tue Dec 16 00:09:25 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 00:09:25 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP printer working well
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B25B@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B25B@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90812152109n2712522fg5c1596964002b0b4@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 11:38 AM, Ingles, Raymond
<Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:
> I like that HP specifically makes Linux drivers available for most of
> their printers and updates them. My parents old printer died, and
> looking at circular deals, I had them pick up an HP C5580; the printer
> itself worked out of the box, my father (who's not a computer type) had
> no trouble. The scanner didn't work at first (they're running an older
> Ubuntu) but I was able to download and install the latest HP Linux
> drivers and it was quite straightforward.
>
>  Just offering a datapoint.
>

Lexmark's support for Linux is minimal but even if they were as good
as HP I wouldn't buy one.  Their paper handling is horrible.  Brother
and Samsung have good support.  My Brother MFC-440CN doesn't have
facsimile support under Linux but I don't need it.  The Samsung laser
printers I bought last year work well.  On Ubuntu I keep wasting time
finding and installing drivers for new hardware only to find out they
were already in the repo and all I had to do was plug it in.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Tue Dec 16 01:03:00 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 01:03:00 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP vs Toshiba
In-Reply-To: <20081215141953.0626e787@Nokia-N800-23-14>
References: <20081215102259.16d9caa4@Nokia-N800-23-14>
	<49468AD8.6030002@comcast.net>
	<20081215141953.0626e787@Nokia-N800-23-14>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90812152203r68db07a8o5e5da04bcb846ac2@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 2:19 PM, Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:
>        Because it doesn't fit the way the user uses it. The volume
> thumb wheel is constantly inadvertently getting bumped and the touchpad
> has allways been very touchy for ex.

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-laptop-and-netbook-25/how-to-disable-synaptics-touchpad-on-toshiba-satellite-655297/


>    Not the way I feel it should. Suspend/resume have never worked, and
> Toshiba does not seem very Linux friendly for ex.
>

My old M35X-S114 works pretty well.  With Ubuntu Intrepid I can
hibernate and suspend/resume although Pulse audio doesn't always
recover.  Video works much better than in Hardy which had a seriously
broken Intel driver.


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Tue Dec 16 06:10:22 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 06:10:22 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP vs Toshiba
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90812152203r68db07a8o5e5da04bcb846ac2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20081215102259.16d9caa4@Nokia-N800-23-14>
	<49468AD8.6030002@comcast.net>
	<20081215141953.0626e787@Nokia-N800-23-14>
	<b02c40e90812152203r68db07a8o5e5da04bcb846ac2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1229425822.13703.16.camel@peter-notebook.site>


On Tue, 2008-12-16 at 01:03 -0500, Jeff Hanson wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 2:19 PM, Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:
> >        Because it doesn't fit the way the user uses it. The volume
> > thumb wheel is constantly inadvertently getting bumped and the touchpad
> > has allways been very touchy for ex.
> 
> http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-laptop-and-netbook-25/how-to-disable-synaptics-touchpad-on-toshiba-satellite-655297/
> 

	Thanks for the link, but then I have no pointing device. Also, the
touchpad can be enabled/disabled via the hardware control center on
openSUSE. I wonder if it's the implementation of devices that varies
between manufacturers. I have the same brand touchpad in my Thinkpad and
it's always been rock solid. Go figure.

> >    Not the way I feel it should. Suspend/resume have never worked, and
> > Toshiba does not seem very Linux friendly for ex.
> >
> 
> My old M35X-S114 works pretty well.  With Ubuntu Intrepid I can
> hibernate and suspend/resume although Pulse audio doesn't always
> recover.  Video works much better than in Hardy which had a seriously
> broken Intel driver.

	Pretty well sums it up for me. On this machine I'm not going to accept
pretty well. I specifically shopped for mainstream, vanilla devices in
this notebook so I wouldn't have to settle. I don't use Ubuntu for the
same reason, sorry. It works great for a desktop when I tried it but not
a notebook.

Best Regards,
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From driveray at ameritech.net  Tue Dec 16 06:39:23 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 06:39:23 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP printer working well
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90812152109n2712522fg5c1596964002b0b4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B25B@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<b02c40e90812152109n2712522fg5c1596964002b0b4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4947936B.8040902@ameritech.net>

Jeff Hanson wrote:

> Lexmark's support for Linux is minimal but even if they were as good
> as HP I wouldn't buy one.  Their paper handling is horrible.  Brother
> and Samsung have good support.  My Brother MFC-440CN doesn't have
> facsimile support under Linux but I don't need it.

Are you talking about support for sending faxs from applications, i.e. 
the fax device appears as a printer? Or are you saying that computer 
support is needed to use it as a fax machine at all? I'm asking because 
I have seen printer/scanner/copier/fax devices made so cheaply that they 
had *no* stand alone functionality at all. They had to be connected to a 
running computer to do anything. I would avoid those like the plague!

> The Samsung laser
> printers I bought last year work well.  On Ubuntu I keep wasting time
> finding and installing drivers for new hardware only to find out they
> were already in the repo and all I had to do was plug it in.

Are you saying they were already in the repository and they would 
automatically install when you plugged it in, or do you mean they were 
already included in the distribution?



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Tue Dec 16 18:28:47 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 18:28:47 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP printer working well
In-Reply-To: <4947936B.8040902@ameritech.net>
References: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B25B@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<b02c40e90812152109n2712522fg5c1596964002b0b4@mail.gmail.com>
	<4947936B.8040902@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90812161528x1977240eja480ba12da4bc4e9@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 6:39 AM, Raymond McLaughlin
<driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
> Jeff Hanson wrote:
>
>> Lexmark's support for Linux is minimal but even if they were as good
>> as HP I wouldn't buy one.  Their paper handling is horrible.  Brother
>> and Samsung have good support.  My Brother MFC-440CN doesn't have
>> facsimile support under Linux but I don't need it.
>
> Are you talking about support for sending faxs from applications, i.e.
> the fax device appears as a printer? Or are you saying that computer
> support is needed to use it as a fax machine at all? I'm asking because
> I have seen printer/scanner/copier/fax devices made so cheaply that they
> had *no* stand alone functionality at all. They had to be connected to a
> running computer to do anything. I would avoid those like the plague!

IIRC it doesn't require a PC for fax.  But there is no Linux support
for accessing the fax device.

The HPLIP fax utility is included with Ubuntu.

>> The Samsung laser
>> printers I bought last year work well.  On Ubuntu I keep wasting time
>> finding and installing drivers for new hardware only to find out they
>> were already in the repo and all I had to do was plug it in.
>
> Are you saying they were already in the repository and they would
> automatically install when you plugged it in, or do you mean they were
> already included in the distribution?

Basic support was in the repo and automatically installed:
http://www.openprinting.org/show_printer.cgi?recnum=Samsung-CLP-300

Samsung's closed driver is available from their web site and includes utils.

The HP C5180 I bought has a built-in web server that can run the scanner.

I don't use printers much so I can't remember all the details.  I also
have a pile of pre-owned models to test out but am to busy now.


From mdlug at wowway.com  Tue Dec 16 23:34:02 2008
From: mdlug at wowway.com (mdlug at wowway.com)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 22:34:02 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] getting sound to work besides aplay *.wav
Message-ID: <20081217042709.M16687@wowway.com>


Hello, so I bought a sound card.   I run Mepis, and I would save it picked up
the sound card right away. The sound card is a creative labs sound blaster
audigy SE.   Kmix sees it as a CA0106.  

If I run the command aplay -D default:CARD=CA0106  *.wav in a directory with
some .wav files, I can hear them.   

But no other sounds can be heard.   I have all the volume controls all the way up.

Is it going to be a big hassle to get like, basic internet sound working?

Like say streaming audio?  That's what I need.   

I've run through all the different controls in the various mepis system settings.
Nothing seems to help.  

Does anyone have any ideas?   Thanks

--
WOW! Homepage (http://www.wowway.com)



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Dec 17 01:23:44 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 01:23:44 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] getting sound to work besides aplay *.wav
In-Reply-To: <20081217042709.M16687@wowway.com>
References: <20081217042709.M16687@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90812162223j9e8544ew69e44d68af7251ce@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 11:34 PM,  <mdlug at wowway.com> wrote:
>
> Hello, so I bought a sound card.   I run Mepis, and I would save it picked up
> the sound card right away. The sound card is a creative labs sound blaster
> audigy SE.   Kmix sees it as a CA0106.
>
> If I run the command aplay -D default:CARD=CA0106  *.wav in a directory with
> some .wav files, I can hear them.
>
> But no other sounds can be heard.   I have all the volume controls all the way up.
>
> Is it going to be a big hassle to get like, basic internet sound working?
>
> Like say streaming audio?  That's what I need.
>
> I've run through all the different controls in the various mepis system settings.
> Nothing seems to help.
>
> Does anyone have any ideas?   Thanks
>

Do you have another sound device on the system that is being used
instead?  AC97?


From mdlug at wowway.com  Wed Dec 17 06:02:11 2008
From: mdlug at wowway.com (mdlug at wowway.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 05:02:11 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] getting sound to work besides aplay *.wav
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90812162223j9e8544ew69e44d68af7251ce@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20081217042709.M16687@wowway.com>
	<b02c40e90812162223j9e8544ew69e44d68af7251ce@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20081217110008.M58703@wowway.com>

On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 01:23:44 -0500, Jeff Hanson wrote

> Do you have another sound device on the system that is being used
> instead?  AC97?

Well, yes, the motherboard has a built-in Intel ICH and it has an AC97
component to it.   Do I need to disable that?  Thanks

> On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 11:34 PM,  <mdlug at wowway.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hello, so I bought a sound card.   I run Mepis, and I would save it picked up
> > the sound card right away. The sound card is a creative labs sound blaster
> > audigy SE.   Kmix sees it as a CA0106.
> >
> > If I run the command aplay -D default:CARD=CA0106  *.wav in a directory with
> > some .wav files, I can hear them.
> >
> > But no other sounds can be heard.   I have all the volume controls all the
way up.
> >
> > Is it going to be a big hassle to get like, basic internet sound working?
> >
> > Like say streaming audio?  That's what I need.
> >
> > I've run through all the different controls in the various mepis system
settings.
> > Nothing seems to help.
> >
> > Does anyone have any ideas?   Thanks
> >
> 

> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


--
WOW! Homepage (http://www.wowway.com)



From mdlug at wowway.com  Wed Dec 17 06:07:31 2008
From: mdlug at wowway.com (mdlug at wowway.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 05:07:31 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] a chown -R disaster recovery question
Message-ID: <20081217110220.M3799@wowway.com>

Hello, let's say I have a system where there are hundreds of users, with a
system of NIS-mapped home dirs such as this:

/filesystem/vol/users/user1
/filesystem/vol/users/user2
/filesystem/vol/users/user3 
...
/filesystem1/vol1/users/userX

and each user is owner of their own home dir.

Accidentally, I go through at the level of /filesystem/vol and 
I chmod -R user1 *   (I know, that was a mistake).

Is there a way to run back through that and chown everyone back?

Thanks, 


--
WOW! Homepage (http://www.wowway.com)



From mdlug at wowway.com  Wed Dec 17 06:07:58 2008
From: mdlug at wowway.com (mdlug at wowway.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 05:07:58 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] a chown -R disaster recovery question
Message-ID: <20081217110742.M71076@wowway.com>

Hello, let's say I have a system where there are hundreds of users, with a
system of NIS-mapped home dirs such as this:

/filesystem/vol/users/user1
/filesystem/vol/users/user2
/filesystem/vol/users/user3 
...
/filesystem1/vol1/users/userX

and each user is owner of their own home dir.

Accidentally, I go through at the level of /filesystem/vol and 
I chmod -R user1 *   (I know, that was a mistake).

Is there a way to run back through that and chown everyone back?

Thanks, 


--
WOW! Homepage (http://www.wowway.com)



From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Wed Dec 17 06:55:33 2008
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 06:55:33 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] a chown -R disaster recovery question
References: <20081217110742.M71076@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <00C4615FE8814247BFBAD5301671BA39@AMD2000>

Try this...

ls -1 /filesystem/vol/users | xargs -i chown -R {} /filesystem/vol/users/{}

Thats a "ls dash one" not a "ls dash el"

-Mike

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: mdlug at wowway.com 
  To: mdlug at mdlug.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 6:07 AM
  Subject: [mdlug] a chown -R disaster recovery question


  Hello, let's say I have a system where there are hundreds of users, with a
  system of NIS-mapped home dirs such as this:

  /filesystem/vol/users/user1
  /filesystem/vol/users/user2
  /filesystem/vol/users/user3 
  ...
  /filesystem1/vol1/users/userX

  and each user is owner of their own home dir.

  Accidentally, I go through at the level of /filesystem/vol and 
  I chmod -R user1 *   (I know, that was a mistake).

  Is there a way to run back through that and chown everyone back?

  Thanks, 


  --
  WOW! Homepage (http://www.wowway.com)

  _______________________________________________
  mdlug mailing list
  mdlug at mdlug.org
  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From mdlug at wowway.com  Wed Dec 17 08:02:42 2008
From: mdlug at wowway.com (mdlug at wowway.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 07:02:42 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] chown -R recovery + sanity check
Message-ID: <20081217125844.M25957@wowway.com>

Hello again, one more thing:  Is there a way to do it so that I can stop and
check the results on first couple and then let it go?

This is what I was thinking, in psuedocode

For each entry in `ypcat passwd`
      $USERNAME = awk <awk command to extract username>
      chown -R $USERNAME $USERNAME
      pause;
      if OK continue else break
Done

Thanks again, Dean

Hello, let's say I have a system where there are hundreds of users, with a
system of NIS-mapped home dirs such as this:

/filesystem/vol/users/user1
/filesystem/vol/users/user2
/filesystem/vol/users/user3
...
/filesystem1/vol1/users/userX

and each user is owner of their own home dir.

Accidentally, I go through at the level of /filesystem/vol and
I chmod -R user1 *   (I know, that was a mistake).

Is there a way to run back through that and chown everyone back?



From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Wed Dec 17 08:26:02 2008
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 08:26:02 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] chown -R recovery + sanity check
References: <20081217125844.M25957@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <E5C1E5CD008C46198C322A8FAAB23F25@AMD2000>

Sure... you can do something like that, but the directory/file permissions are already broken.  So if you run the comand I suggested, and it fails, you are not any worse off.  :-)

-Mike
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: mdlug at wowway.com 
  To: mdlug at mdlug.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 8:02 AM
  Subject: [mdlug] chown -R recovery + sanity check


  Hello again, one more thing:  Is there a way to do it so that I can stop and
  check the results on first couple and then let it go?

  This is what I was thinking, in psuedocode

  For each entry in `ypcat passwd`
        $USERNAME = awk <awk command to extract username>
        chown -R $USERNAME $USERNAME
        pause;
        if OK continue else break
  Done

  Thanks again, Dean

  Hello, let's say I have a system where there are hundreds of users, with a
  system of NIS-mapped home dirs such as this:

  /filesystem/vol/users/user1
  /filesystem/vol/users/user2
  /filesystem/vol/users/user3
  ...
  /filesystem1/vol1/users/userX

  and each user is owner of their own home dir.

  Accidentally, I go through at the level of /filesystem/vol and
  I chmod -R user1 *   (I know, that was a mistake).

  Is there a way to run back through that and chown everyone back?

  _______________________________________________
  mdlug mailing list
  mdlug at mdlug.org
  http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From gib at juno.com  Wed Dec 17 09:47:39 2008
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 14:47:39 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] if programming languages were religions
Message-ID: <20081217.094739.21789.0@webmail04.vgs.untd.com>

 
http://www.aegisub.net/2008/12/if-programming-languages-were-religions.html
____________________________________________________________
Click for free information on accounting careers, $150 hour potential.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/PnY6rbttHTOC25XYoGFjtiqIeqigN6F6imE2JeekjIA3n0wRpDtPm/


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 17 09:58:09 2008
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 06:58:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] if programming languages were religions
References: <20081217.094739.21789.0@webmail04.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <111267.53344.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Yes that is very good.? 

and I'll throw my shoe at any one that does not agree. LOL


David C.Lnne 




________________________________
From: "gib at juno.com" <gib at juno.com>
To: mdlug at mdlug.org
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:47:39 AM
Subject: [mdlug] if programming languages were religions


http://www.aegisub.net/2008/12/if-programming-languages-were-religions.html
____________________________________________________________
Click for free information on accounting careers, $150 hour potential.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/PnY6rbttHTOC25XYoGFjtiqIeqigN6F6imE2JeekjIA3n0wRpDtPm/
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From peter at petertheplumber.net  Wed Dec 17 13:24:27 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 13:24:27 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP vs Toshiba
In-Reply-To: <20081215102259.16d9caa4@Nokia-N800-23-14>
References: <20081215102259.16d9caa4@Nokia-N800-23-14>
Message-ID: <20081217132427.2de8dc2e@Nokia-N800-23-14>

On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 10:22:59 -0500
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:

> Good Morning All,
>     I have a real dilema now that prices are coming down, apparently
> quite a bit. I could replace the 17" Toshiba Satellite I just got last
> year with a comparable 17" HP notebook for about 2/3 of what I paid
> last year. The user has never really liked the Toshiba and neither
> have I. I would most likely sell the Toshiba if I did buy the HP. I
> would be moving to an AMD processor from an Intel but other than that
> pretty much vanilla from what I've seen so far. Given that HP
> typically is much friendlier to Linux than Toshiba I'm thinking this
> might be a good move. Anybody have any thoughts on this? Any
> particular things I need to steer clear of?

	In case anyone's curios, I will not be selling a used Toshiba
dual core notebook this year. It came down to the fingerprint reader
I have now that I would have to give up if I switched. openSUSE 11 has
it even better integrated so that the user can swipe in from the
screensaver as well as login. That and my misadventures with rsync that
I need to clean up in /home should make the Toshiba much easier to use.
Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

Best Regards,


-- 
?Peter The Plumber sm on the road

Sent from a mobile Internet Tablet


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Dec 17 14:12:28 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 14:12:28 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] getting sound to work besides aplay *.wav
In-Reply-To: <20081217110008.M58703@wowway.com>
References: <20081217042709.M16687@wowway.com>
	<b02c40e90812162223j9e8544ew69e44d68af7251ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<20081217110008.M58703@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90812171112y547f7e4eqfc059af3267db825@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 6:02 AM,  <mdlug at wowway.com> wrote:
> Well, yes, the motherboard has a built-in Intel ICH and it has an AC97
> component to it.   Do I need to disable that?  Thanks

Wouldn't hurt unless you really need multiple sound devices.  Google
turned up this thread:
http://www.mepis.org/node/11336


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Dec 17 15:24:59 2008
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:24:59 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] getting sound to work besides aplay *.wav
In-Reply-To: <20081217110008.M58703@wowway.com>
References: <20081217042709.M16687@wowway.com>	<b02c40e90812162223j9e8544ew69e44d68af7251ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<20081217110008.M58703@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <4949601B.9010606@gmail.com>

mdlug at wowway.com wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 01:23:44 -0500, Jeff Hanson wrote
> 
>> Do you have another sound device on the system that is being used
>> instead?  AC97?
> 
> Well, yes, the motherboard has a built-in Intel ICH and it has an AC97
> component to it.   Do I need to disable that?

Why would you disable hardware that you've already demonstrated
to be working?

Think, man, THINK!
[And no, I'm not being flippant...I truly mean it...
THINK through the problem, instead of flailing around
aimlessly]

  Thanks
> 
>> On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 11:34 PM,  <mdlug at wowway.com> wrote:
>>> Hello, so I bought a sound card.   I run Mepis, and I would save it picked up
>>> the sound card right away. The sound card is a creative labs sound blaster
>>> audigy SE.   Kmix sees it as a CA0106.
>>>
>>> If I run the command aplay -D default:CARD=CA0106  *.wav in a directory with
>>> some .wav files, I can hear them.
>>>
>>> But no other sounds can be heard.   I have all the volume controls all the
> way up.
>>> Is it going to be a big hassle to get like, basic internet sound working?
>>>
>>> Like say streaming audio?  That's what I need.
>>>
>>> I've run through all the different controls in the various mepis system
> settings.
>>> Nothing seems to help.
>>>
>>> Does anyone have any ideas?   Thanks
>>>


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Dec 17 15:33:50 2008
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:33:50 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] a chown -R disaster recovery question
In-Reply-To: <20081217110220.M3799@wowway.com>
References: <20081217110220.M3799@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <4949622E.4050905@gmail.com>

mdlug at wowway.com wrote:
> Hello, let's say I have a system where there are hundreds of users, with a
> system of NIS-mapped home dirs such as this:
> 
> /filesystem/vol/users/user1
> /filesystem/vol/users/user2
> /filesystem/vol/users/user3 
> ...
> /filesystem1/vol1/users/userX
> 
> and each user is owner of their own home dir.
> 
> Accidentally, I go through at the level of /filesystem/vol and 
> I chmod -R user1 *   (I know, that was a mistake).
> 
> Is there a way to run back through that and chown everyone back?
> 

Of course, you just use chown again.

#!/bin/bash
TRUNK=/filesystem/vol/users
chown __root?__  $TRUNK

cd $TRUNK
for USER in *
do
   chown -R $USER $USER
done
# end of shellscript.


Put the above text in a file,
chmod that file to mode 755
and then execute that file

for example, say you put it in a file called "chownback"
(put this in some place like /root/bin or /local/bin or /usr/local/bin)

cd /usr/local/bin
cat > chownback   ## cut & past the script text on the next line
                  # then use ctrl-D to end input
chmod 755 chownback
./chownback




From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Wed Dec 17 15:53:43 2008
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:53:43 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP vs Toshiba
In-Reply-To: <20081217132427.2de8dc2e@Nokia-N800-23-14>
References: <20081215102259.16d9caa4@Nokia-N800-23-14>
	<20081217132427.2de8dc2e@Nokia-N800-23-14>
Message-ID: <494966D7.20205@gmail.com>

Peter Bart wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 10:22:59 -0500
> Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:
> 
>> Good Morning All,
>>     I have a real dilema now that prices are coming down, apparently
>> quite a bit. I could replace the 17" Toshiba Satellite I just got last
>> year with a comparable 17" HP notebook for about 2/3 of what I paid
>> last year. The user has never really liked the Toshiba and neither
>> have I. I would most likely sell the Toshiba if I did buy the HP. I
>> would be moving to an AMD processor from an Intel but other than that
>> pretty much vanilla from what I've seen so far. Given that HP
>> typically is much friendlier to Linux than Toshiba I'm thinking this
>> might be a good move. Anybody have any thoughts on this? Any
>> particular things I need to steer clear of?
> 
> 	In case anyone's curios, I will not be selling a used Toshiba
> dual core notebook this year. It came down to the fingerprint reader
> I have now that I would have to give up if I switched.

Why would you have to give up having a fingerprint reader?
Fingerprint readers are in the $20 - $30 range at Microcenter.

> openSUSE 11 has
> it even better integrated so that the user can swipe in from the
> screensaver as well as login. That and my misadventures with rsync that
> I need to clean up in /home should make the Toshiba much easier to use.
> Thanks everyone for your thoughts.
> 
> Best Regards,


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Wed Dec 17 17:24:55 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 17:24:55 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] HP vs Toshiba
In-Reply-To: <494966D7.20205@gmail.com>
References: <20081215102259.16d9caa4@Nokia-N800-23-14>
	<20081217132427.2de8dc2e@Nokia-N800-23-14>
	<494966D7.20205@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20081217172455.1ae538dc@Nokia-N800-23-14>

On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:53:43 -0500
Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Peter Bart wrote:
> > On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 10:22:59 -0500
> > Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:
<snip>
> 
> Why would you have to give up having a fingerprint reader?
> Fingerprint readers are in the $20 - $30 range at Microcenter.

	Not integrated readers.
-- 
___Peter The Plumber sm on the road
Sent from a mobile Internet Tablet


From brian at dangerbacon.com  Wed Dec 17 23:02:58 2008
From: brian at dangerbacon.com (Brian)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 23:02:58 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Sad state of schools but hope may be with students
In-Reply-To: <cd5131a50812100454l5be0bad3s883463f35554e838@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cd5131a50812100454l5be0bad3s883463f35554e838@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200812172302.58225.brian@dangerbacon.com>

On Wednesday 10 December 2008 07:54:18 am - wrote:
> This may be already know but it was a interesting read - base link from
> slashdot and digg
>
>
> http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding-our-kids-back.html
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

Hahahaha.  This could be the beginning of a new video used to scare nerdy 
teens straight, "GNU Madness!"

From the article:
" I along with many others tried Linux during college..."

But I didn't inhale!

-- 
Brian
Jabber/GTalk: brian at dangerbacon.com
"The whole world is a mess, and I just want to... rule it." - Dr. Horrible


From micorral at comcast.net  Wed Dec 17 23:23:15 2008
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 23:23:15 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] if programming languages were religions
In-Reply-To: <20081217.094739.21789.0@webmail04.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20081217.094739.21789.0@webmail04.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0812172321360.2322@banana.sluggo.net>

2008-12-17, Monsieur gib at juno.com a ecrit:
> http://www.aegisub.net/2008/12/if-programming-languages-were-religions.html

Heh, some python fanboy is loving all the attention his webpage
is getting! :)

Michael


From gib at juno.com  Thu Dec 18 08:19:05 2008
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 13:19:05 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] ArbCamp+08 - A geek meeting in AA tonight
Message-ID: <20081218.081905.19874.2@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>

 
A geek meeting in AA tonight:
http://a2geeks.org/display/geek/ArbCamp+08
____________________________________________________________
Internet Security Software - Click here.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/PnY6rbt0eJw2rC7prlrOMj5RGHQ4dH86RIV5z0z4kYxNw7EZ36EXy/


From gib at juno.com  Thu Dec 18 11:32:08 2008
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 16:32:08 GMT
Subject: [mdlug] ArbCamp+08 - A geek meeting in AA tonight
Message-ID: <20081218.113208.25557.0@webmail16.vgs.untd.com>

Oh, I see they are fully booked.  Oh well.

-- "gib at juno.com" <gib at juno.com> wrote:

A geek meeting in AA tonight:
http://a2geeks.org/display/geek/ArbCamp+08
____________________________________________________________
Internet Security Software - Click here.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/PnY6rbt0eJw2rC7prlrOMj5RGHQ4dH86RIV5z0z4kYxNw7EZ36EXy/
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From danno at umich.edu  Thu Dec 18 12:59:36 2008
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 12:59:36 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] ArbCamp+08 - A geek meeting in AA tonight
In-Reply-To: <20081218.113208.25557.0@webmail16.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20081218.113208.25557.0@webmail16.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <20081218175936.GB84473@maniac.deathstar.org>

On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 04:32:08PM +0000, gib at juno.com wrote:
> Oh, I see they are fully booked.  Oh well.
> 
> -- "gib at juno.com" <gib at juno.com> wrote:
> 
> A geek meeting in AA tonight:
> http://a2geeks.org/display/geek/ArbCamp+08

the page says:

ArbCamp open to ALL again, with our CHANGE OF VENUE

Thanks to SPARK, we will be able to accomodate EVERYONE who has
signed up - there is no more waitlist! Please join us, and invite
your friends to register here as well!

danno


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Thu Dec 18 13:53:02 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 13:53:02 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] getting sound to work besides aplay *.wav
In-Reply-To: <4949601B.9010606@gmail.com>
References: <20081217042709.M16687@wowway.com>	<b02c40e90812162223j9e8544ew69e44d68af7251ce@mail.gmail.com><20081217110008.M58703@wowway.com>
	<4949601B.9010606@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B25E@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Aaron Kulkis

> Why would you disable hardware that you've already demonstrated
> to be working?

 Because it's redundant now that he's got another, better sound card?

 This ties back into the Linux sound handling that I mentioned before.
It's not hard - for any *particular* sound API - to direct sound to a
particular card. Getting *all* the various sound APIs to agree on that
routing is much harder. If he's not doing things that need multiple
sound cards, then disabling the unused hardware prevents such conflicts,
like disabling onboard video if there's no monitor connected to it
helps.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                                 (313)
227-2317

 "In an illustrative recent study, subjects were asked their opinion
about
  a social welfare policy, which was described as being endorsed either
by
   Democrats or by Republicans. Although the subjects sincerely believed
   that their responses were based on the objective merits of the
policy,
   the major determinant of what they thought of the policy was in fact
  whether or not their favored political party was said to endorse it."
                - Paul Bloom and Deena Skolnick Weisberg
          (study at: http://content2.apa.org/journals/psp/85/5/808)
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From micorral at comcast.net  Thu Dec 18 18:16:13 2008
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 18:16:13 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] ArbCamp+08 - A geek meeting in AA tonight
In-Reply-To: <20081218.081905.19874.2@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20081218.081905.19874.2@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0812181814130.3105@banana.sluggo.net>

2008-12-18, Monsieur gib at juno.com a ecrit:
> A geek meeting in AA tonight

Ah, the circus is in town, cool. Will the bearded lady be there?

Michael


From lugnuts at doehler.us  Fri Dec 19 12:35:02 2008
From: lugnuts at doehler.us (Joe Doehler)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 12:35:02 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Fedora 10 Networking problems
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0812181814130.3105@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <20081218.081905.19874.2@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0812181814130.3105@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <E1LDjCa-0004Un-00@doehler.us>

My new install of Fedora-10 does not start the two network interfaces 
installed in the box. Both interfaces come up properly, manually, 
with "ifup ethx" after boot. Both 
"/etc/sysconfig/networking/devices/ifcfg-ethx" files contain the line 
"ONBOOT=yes", but that is obviously ignored.

/etc/sysconfig/network contains "NETWORKING=yes"

Where in Fedora-10 is the key statement that will bring the 
interfaces up at boot?

FYI, I disabled NetworkManager because I want static adresses for the 
interfaces.

TIA.
Joe.



From jmtaylor90 at gmail.com  Fri Dec 19 15:17:49 2008
From: jmtaylor90 at gmail.com (Jason Taylor)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 15:17:49 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Fedora 10 Networking problems
In-Reply-To: <E1LDjCa-0004Un-00@doehler.us>
References: <20081218.081905.19874.2@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0812181814130.3105@banana.sluggo.net>
	<E1LDjCa-0004Un-00@doehler.us>
Message-ID: <1229717869.3436.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Fri, 2008-12-19 at 12:35 -0500, Joe Doehler wrote:
> My new install of Fedora-10 does not start the two network interfaces 
> installed in the box. Both interfaces come up properly, manually, 
> with "ifup ethx" after boot. Both 
> "/etc/sysconfig/networking/devices/ifcfg-ethx" files contain the line 
> "ONBOOT=yes", but that is obviously ignored.
> 
> /etc/sysconfig/network contains "NETWORKING=yes"
> 
> Where in Fedora-10 is the key statement that will bring the 
> interfaces up at boot?
> 
> FYI, I disabled NetworkManager because I want static adresses for the 
> interfaces.
> 
> TIA.
> Joe.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

Did you set the flag for so the card(s) are not controlled by
NetworkManager?

-Jason
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From billings at negate.org  Fri Dec 19 15:22:11 2008
From: billings at negate.org (Jonathan Billings)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 15:22:11 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Fedora 10 Networking problems
In-Reply-To: <E1LDjCa-0004Un-00@doehler.us>
References: <20081218.081905.19874.2@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0812181814130.3105@banana.sluggo.net>
	<E1LDjCa-0004Un-00@doehler.us>
Message-ID: <20081219202211.GA671@rhea.lsait.lsa.umich.edu>

On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 12:35:02PM -0500, Joe Doehler wrote:
> Where in Fedora-10 is the key statement that will bring the 
> interfaces up at boot?
> 
> FYI, I disabled NetworkManager because I want static adresses for the 
> interfaces.

If you disabled the 'NetworkManager' service, did you enable the
'network' service?

-- 
Jonathan Billings <billings at negate.org>


From micorral at comcast.net  Fri Dec 19 17:18:12 2008
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 17:18:12 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Fedora 10 Networking problems
In-Reply-To: <E1LDjCa-0004Un-00@doehler.us>
References: <20081218.081905.19874.2@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0812181814130.3105@banana.sluggo.net>
	<E1LDjCa-0004Un-00@doehler.us>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0812191640270.2302@banana.sluggo.net>

2008-12-19, Monsieur Joe Doehler a ecrit:
> "/etc/sysconfig/networking/devices/ifcfg-ethx" files contain the line
> "ONBOOT=yes", but that is obviously ignored.
>
> /etc/sysconfig/network contains "NETWORKING=yes"
>
> Where in Fedora-10 is the key statement that will bring the
> interfaces up at boot?
>
> FYI, I disabled NetworkManager because I want static adresses for the
> interfaces.

Do your /etc/sysconfig/network-script/ifcfg-ethX files have the line
"NM_CONTROLLED=no" in them?

I always disable and uninstall NetworkManager just on principle. :)

FWIW, here's my /etc/sysconfig/network-script/ifcfg-eth0 from F10. I had
to manually edit it to get a static IP working (it's a known bug in F10),
and it does bring up eth0 at boot:

# Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL-8110SC/8169SC Gigabit Ethernet
DEVICE=eth0
HWADDR=00:18:bc:37:69:b4
ONBOOT=yes
BOOTPROTO=none
IPADDR=192.168.1.254
BROADCAST=192.168.1.255
NETMASK=255.255.255.0
NETWORK=192.168.1.0
GATEWAY=192.168.1.1
TYPE=Ethernet
USERCTL=no
IPV6INIT=no
PEERDNS=yes
DNS1=68.87.77.130
DNS2=68.87.72.130
DOMAIN=sothfd01.mi.comcast.net
NM_CONTROLLED=no

I also put this in /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/route-eth0:

GATEWAY0=19.168.1.1
NETMASK0=255.255.255.0
ADDRESS0=192.168.1.0

By the way, since the default installation for F10 is broken if you
want to use static IP's, there is a way to set up a static IP at
install time at the "boot:" prompt when using the install media:
boot: linux askmethod

Alternatively, you could set the network info at the boot prompt:
<http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/f10/en_US/ap-admin-options.html>
See section A.1.4, "Manually Configuring the Network Settings".

Michael


From lugnuts at doehler.us  Sat Dec 20 13:19:10 2008
From: lugnuts at doehler.us (Joe Doehler)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 13:19:10 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Fedora 10 Networking problems
In-Reply-To: <20081219202211.GA671@rhea.lsait.lsa.umich.edu>
References: <20081218.081905.19874.2@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0812181814130.3105@banana.sluggo.net>
	<E1LDjCa-0004Un-00@doehler.us>
	<20081219202211.GA671@rhea.lsait.lsa.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <E1LE6Ms-0006bR-00@doehler.us>

At 03:22 PM 12/19/2008, Jonathan wrote:
 >...
 >If you u disabled the 'NetworkManager' service, did you enable
 >the 'network' service?

I added a link in "rc3.d" as:
S98network --> ../init.d/network

The interfaces now start at boot up (thanks!), but the default route 
(via the gateway) is not found, even after editing the "ifcfg-ethx" 
files as Michael Corral suggested. All other parameters get set 
properly. Perhaps I should start the network earlier, with a lower 
sequence number?

To set the default route, I need to state, manually:
route add -net 0.0.0.0 netmask 0.0.0.0 gw 192.168.3.254 dev eth0

Somehow, this default route is not found by a network restart in 
spite of the gateway address being specified (and bound to eth0) in 
various files.

FWIW, the Fedora-10 GUI configuration utility is totally useless: it 
corrupts the interface configuration files beyond functionality.

With regards to "ifcfg-ethx", I find copies in these three directories:
/etc/sysconfig/networking/devices
/etc/sysconfig/networking/profiles/default
/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts

Which one has precedence? They seem to synch each other, but only 
more-or-less: it takes multiple boots before they are all sync'd. It 
seems awfully messy to have multiple files meant for the same purpose...

One further annoying problem that I have is that my gateway locks up 
when my Fedora-10 server boots. That gateway keeps working properly 
if I disconnect the Ethernet wire to the F-10 server while it boots. 
It is as if the booting system sniffs around in IPv6 mode before 
settling into IPv4. Is it a good idea to disable IPv6 entirely in 
this day and age? I'll return the favor of any answer by asking how 
to enable and configure IPv6 after I have installed Fedora-13 :-)

Joe.



From micorral at comcast.net  Sat Dec 20 16:11:28 2008
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 16:11:28 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Fedora 10 Networking problems
In-Reply-To: <E1LE6Ms-0006bR-00@doehler.us>
References: <20081218.081905.19874.2@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0812181814130.3105@banana.sluggo.net>
	<E1LDjCa-0004Un-00@doehler.us>
	<20081219202211.GA671@rhea.lsait.lsa.umich.edu>
	<E1LE6Ms-0006bR-00@doehler.us>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0812201558470.3945@banana.sluggo.net>

2008-12-20, Monsieur Joe Doehler a ecrit:
> I added a link in "rc3.d" as:
> S98network --> ../init.d/network
>
> The interfaces now start at boot up (thanks!), but the default route
> (via the gateway) is not found, even after editing the "ifcfg-ethx"
> files as Michael Corral suggested. All other parameters get set
> properly.

On my F10 system, the network service startup scripts start earlier:

rc2.d/S10network -> ../init.d/network
rc3.d/S10network -> ../init.d/network
rc4.d/S10network -> ../init.d/network
rc5.d/S10network -> ../init.d/network

rc0.d/K90network -> ../init.d/network
rc1.d/K90network -> ../init.d/network
rc6.d/K90network -> ../init.d/network

Also, did you edit the /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/route-eth0 as I
mentioned before? You didn't specifically mention that file. That file
and /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0 were all I had to edit
to get a static IP and default route to work in F10.

Michael


From jesse at salens.org  Sun Dec 21 01:11:57 2008
From: jesse at salens.org (Jesse J. Salens)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 01:11:57 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Fedora 10 Networking problems
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0812201558470.3945@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <20081218.081905.19874.2@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0812181814130.3105@banana.sluggo.net>
	<E1LDjCa-0004Un-00@doehler.us>
	<20081219202211.GA671@rhea.lsait.lsa.umich.edu>
	<E1LE6Ms-0006bR-00@doehler.us>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0812201558470.3945@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <1697a1580812202211t3c8a57f9o2a1214d93a551465@mail.gmail.com>

You might want to check /etc/sysconfig/network to see if there is any
GATEWAY= or GATEWAYDEV= statements. You can add the default gateway to this
file, which overrides the ethX for the default.

Also, instead of manually linking you can set network to run as "chkconfig
network on" and check with "chkconfig --list network".

On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 4:11 PM, Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net>wrote:

> 2008-12-20, Monsieur Joe Doehler a ecrit:
> > I added a link in "rc3.d" as:
> > S98network --> ../init.d/network
> >
> > The interfaces now start at boot up (thanks!), but the default route
> > (via the gateway) is not found, even after editing the "ifcfg-ethx"
> > files as Michael Corral suggested. All other parameters get set
> > properly.
>
> On my F10 system, the network service startup scripts start earlier:
>
> rc2.d/S10network -> ../init.d/network
> rc3.d/S10network -> ../init.d/network
> rc4.d/S10network -> ../init.d/network
> rc5.d/S10network -> ../init.d/network
>
> rc0.d/K90network -> ../init.d/network
> rc1.d/K90network -> ../init.d/network
> rc6.d/K90network -> ../init.d/network
>
> Also, did you edit the /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/route-eth0 as I
> mentioned before? You didn't specifically mention that file. That file
> and /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0 were all I had to edit
> to get a static IP and default route to work in F10.
>
> Michael
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From lugnuts at doehler.us  Sun Dec 21 14:55:02 2008
From: lugnuts at doehler.us (Joe Doehler)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 14:55:02 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Fedora 10 Networking problems
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0812201558470.3945@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <20081218.081905.19874.2@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0812181814130.3105@banana.sluggo.net>
	<E1LDjCa-0004Un-00@doehler.us>
	<20081219202211.GA671@rhea.lsait.lsa.umich.edu>
	<E1LE6Ms-0006bR-00@doehler.us>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0812201558470.3945@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <E1LEUd2-0000mp-00@doehler.us>

At 04:11 PM 12/20/2008, Michael wrote:
...
>On my F10 system, the network service startup scripts start earlier:
>
>rc2.d/S10network -> ../init.d/network
>rc3.d/S10network -> ../init.d/network
>rc4.d/S10network -> ../init.d/network
>rc5.d/S10network -> ../init.d/network
>
>rc0.d/K90network -> ../init.d/network
>rc1.d/K90network -> ../init.d/network
>rc6.d/K90network -> ../init.d/network
>
>Also, did you edit the /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/route-eth0 as I
>mentioned before? You didn't specifically mention that file. That file
>and /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0 were all I had to edit
>to get a static IP and default route to work in F10.
...

I changed the sequence numbers to duplicate yours (and that of my 
older Red Hat 7) and edited (all three existing versions of) 
"route-eth0" to read:

ADDRESS0=192.168.3.73        / Host IP
NETMASK0=255.255.255.255
ADDRESS1=192.168.3.254       / Gateway IP
NETMASK1=255.255.255.255
ADDRESS2=0.0.0.0             / Default route
NETMASK2=0.0.0.0
GATEWAY2=192.168.3.254

All entries appear to be necessary for the routing table to be 
correct after boot. RH-7 is certainly simpler and less messy...

I now have an Fedora 10 system that boots! Thanks, guys.

Joe.



From Stan at mcomputersolutions.com  Sun Dec 21 21:40:06 2008
From: Stan at mcomputersolutions.com (Stan Green)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 21:40:06 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] ext3 - fixing bad block in RAID 1 on root file system.
Message-ID: <200812212140.06308.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>

I have a ext3 file system, which is the root FS, on a RAID 1 array where one 
drive failed.  No problem, I replace it and the array starts to rebuild. It 
gets to 99% done and finds a bad block on the source drive. So, it starts 
over going into an endless rebuild loop. 

I booted to Knoppix and ran e2fsck -cc (Should this have been -c ?) on the 
partition,  /dev/hda1, (not the RAID array), but that did not work. The 
rebuild still found the bad block.

So, I need to some how mark the block bad (I have the number) so that the RAID 
rebuild will complete.

The system seems to run fine with the bad block, it just will not rebuild the 
RAID array. The distro is Fedora 6.

Any ideas here?

FYI: Yes I am replacing the source drive as soon as I get the the RAID array 
working again.

Thanks,
Stan


From jjn at nuge.com  Mon Dec 22 00:00:01 2008
From: jjn at nuge.com (Jay Nugent)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 00:00:01 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] ext3 - fixing bad block in RAID 1 on root file system.
In-Reply-To: <200812212140.06308.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0812212359110.1067-100000@home.nuge.com>

Greetings,

On Sun, 21 Dec 2008, Stan Green wrote:

> I have a ext3 file system, which is the root FS, on a RAID 1 array where one 
> drive failed.  No problem, I replace it and the array starts to rebuild. It 
> gets to 99% done and finds a bad block on the source drive. So, it starts 
> over going into an endless rebuild loop. 
> 
> I booted to Knoppix and ran e2fsck -cc (Should this have been -c ?) on the 
> partition,  /dev/hda1, (not the RAID array), but that did not work. The 
> rebuild still found the bad block.
> 
> So, I need to some how mark the block bad (I have the number) so that the RAID 
> rebuild will complete.
> 
> The system seems to run fine with the bad block, it just will not rebuild the 
> RAID array. The distro is Fedora 6.
> 
> Any ideas here?
> 
> FYI: Yes I am replacing the source drive as soon as I get the the RAID array 
> working again.

   /sbin/badblocks

   See the manpage for the syntax used to map out the bad blocks.

      --- Jay Nugent

+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Jay Nugent   jjn at nuge.com    (734)484-5105    (734)649-0850/Cell       |
|   Nugent Telecommunications  [www.nuge.com]                            |
|   Internet Consulting/Linux SysAdmin/Engineering & Design/ISP Reseller |
| ISP Monitoring [www.ispmonitor.org] ISP & Modem Performance Monitoring |
| Web-Pegasus    [www.webpegasus.com] Web Hosting/DNS Hosting/Shell Accts|
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 11:01pm  up 22 days,  7:11,  4 users,  load average: 0.35, 0.63, 0.34



From set at pobox.com  Mon Dec 22 00:41:18 2008
From: set at pobox.com (Paul)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 00:41:18 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] ext3 - fixing bad block in RAID 1 on root file system.
In-Reply-To: <200812212140.06308.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
References: <200812212140.06308.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <20081222054118.GA5936@squish.home.loc>

Stan Green <Stan at mcomputersolutions.com>, on Sun Dec 21, 2008 [09:40:06 PM] said:
> I have a ext3 file system, which is the root FS, on a RAID 1 array where one 
> drive failed.  No problem, I replace it and the array starts to rebuild. It 
> gets to 99% done and finds a bad block on the source drive. So, it starts 
> over going into an endless rebuild loop. 
> 
> I booted to Knoppix and ran e2fsck -cc (Should this have been -c ?) on the 
> partition,  /dev/hda1, (not the RAID array), but that did not work. The 
> rebuild still found the bad block.
> 
> So, I need to some how mark the block bad (I have the number) so that the RAID 
> rebuild will complete.
> 
> The system seems to run fine with the bad block, it just will not rebuild the 
> RAID array. The distro is Fedora 6.
> 
> Any ideas here?
> 

	Hi;

	Well, the raid rebuild is *probably* operating on a block level,
not the filesystem level, so informing the filesystem layer about
bad blocks wont help there. (ie. the raid system knows about groups
of disk sectors, not anything about the filesystem that lies on top.)
	If this data were real important, I would get a disk image
saved, do a backup of the filesystem to another disk, and *then*
reconstruct the raid. (easiest would just be to rsync to a fresh
disk, then reconstruct the raid)
	Im not familiar enough with the raid stuff to know if you can
just remove that group of sectors, but one thing you can do, is try
to get the drive to remap the bad sector. You can try writing to the
sector, and you can have the drive itself run self diagnostics and
perhaps repair itself.

	smartctl -t long /dev/hdx  <- have the disk test itself
	smartctl -a /dev/hdx | more   <- see what it thinks

	Writing the the bad sector/block can be done with dd, ie.
if you knew sector 99999 was bad, you could do:

#> dd if=/dev/hdx of=/dev/null skip=99999 count=1 bs=512

(this would read that sector, and an error would confirm it is the
right one--- maybe skip should be 99998...)

#> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hdx skip=99999 count=1 bs=512

(this would try to write to the sector: WARNING dont write to your
disk unless you know what you are doing.)

	I shouldnt really even describe using dd.... if you know
the *block* that is bad, you need to set bs=BLOCKSIZE

	[ The -cc option you mention does a read/write test, but it
will probably fail to do the write after the read fails....]


> FYI: Yes I am replacing the source drive as soon as I get the the RAID array 
> working again.
> 
	Seriously, just back up the filesystem to a fresh disk and
make a new mirror... Conventional Wisdom, is that bad sectors on a
modern (less that 10 years old) disk is usually an indicator of
impending death.
	
> Thanks,
> Stan


From billings at negate.org  Mon Dec 22 08:27:44 2008
From: billings at negate.org (Jonathan Billings)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 08:27:44 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Fedora 10 Networking problems
In-Reply-To: <E1LEUd2-0000mp-00@doehler.us>
References: <20081218.081905.19874.2@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0812181814130.3105@banana.sluggo.net>
	<E1LDjCa-0004Un-00@doehler.us>
	<20081219202211.GA671@rhea.lsait.lsa.umich.edu>
	<E1LE6Ms-0006bR-00@doehler.us>
	<alpine.LFD.2.00.0812201558470.3945@banana.sluggo.net>
	<E1LEUd2-0000mp-00@doehler.us>
Message-ID: <20081222132744.GA8723@rhea.lsait.lsa.umich.edu>

On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 02:55:02PM -0500, Joe Doehler wrote:
> I changed the sequence numbers to duplicate yours (and that of my 
> older Red Hat 7) and edited (all three existing versions of) 
> "route-eth0" to read:

For future reference, the appropriate way to do this is
'/sbin/chkconfig network on'.  chkconfig parses the init script for
the this information -- that's what the '# chkconfig: - 10 90' stands
for in the network init script.

-- 
Jonathan Billings <billings at negate.org>


From danno at umich.edu  Mon Dec 22 18:17:06 2008
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 18:17:06 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] ext3 - fixing bad block in RAID 1 on root file system.
In-Reply-To: <200812212140.06308.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
References: <200812212140.06308.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <20081222231706.GB95293@maniac.deathstar.org>

worst case, you can use dump & restore (or pick your favorite backup
& restore tools) to copy from the mostly-working drive to a new drive.
Should be able to keep going past errors.

while you are dorking with it, you might want to just build up a
fresh fedora 10 system and copy your user data off the existing
drive.

In the future to hopefully avoid this kind of problem, scrub
your RAIDs regularly:

   http://wiki.xdroop.com/space/Linux/Software+Raid+Scrub

Note that this applies for hardware raid as well as software raid,
although obviously it's a different process to scrub HW raid.

On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 09:40:06PM -0500, Stan Green wrote:
> I have a ext3 file system, which is the root FS, on a RAID 1 array where one 
> drive failed.  No problem, I replace it and the array starts to rebuild. It 
> gets to 99% done and finds a bad block on the source drive. So, it starts 
> over going into an endless rebuild loop. 
> 
> I booted to Knoppix and ran e2fsck -cc (Should this have been -c ?) on the 
> partition,  /dev/hda1, (not the RAID array), but that did not work. The 
> rebuild still found the bad block.
> 
> So, I need to some how mark the block bad (I have the number) so that the RAID 
> rebuild will complete.
> 
> The system seems to run fine with the bad block, it just will not rebuild the 
> RAID array. The distro is Fedora 6.
> 
> Any ideas here?
> 
> FYI: Yes I am replacing the source drive as soon as I get the the RAID array 
> working again.
> 
> Thanks,
> Stan
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From Stan at mcomputersolutions.com  Mon Dec 22 21:01:18 2008
From: Stan at mcomputersolutions.com (Stan Green)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 21:01:18 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] ext3 - fixing bad block in RAID 1 on root file system.
In-Reply-To: <20081222231706.GB95293@maniac.deathstar.org>
References: <200812212140.06308.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
	<20081222231706.GB95293@maniac.deathstar.org>
Message-ID: <200812222101.18199.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>

Thanks everyone for the help.

I got to thinking that if the rebuild was 99% done, maybe the data was all 
copied. I am happy to say it was. Knoppix to the rescue! 
So I set the partition back to linux (83) edited grub.conf, fstab, and 
mdadm.conf. Then ran grub to make the drive bootable. 

I'm happy to say the system is up and running, however only on one drive. New 
drives are in the mail.

I'm sure a scrub is in the furture of this and all my RAID boxes!

Regards,
Stan Green

On Monday 22 December 2008 18:17, you wrote:
> worst case, you can use dump & restore (or pick your favorite backup
> & restore tools) to copy from the mostly-working drive to a new drive.
> Should be able to keep going past errors.
>
> while you are dorking with it, you might want to just build up a
> fresh fedora 10 system and copy your user data off the existing
> drive.
>
> In the future to hopefully avoid this kind of problem, scrub
> your RAIDs regularly:
>
>    http://wiki.xdroop.com/space/Linux/Software+Raid+Scrub
>
> Note that this applies for hardware raid as well as software raid,
> although obviously it's a different process to scrub HW raid.
>
> On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 09:40:06PM -0500, Stan Green wrote:
> > I have a ext3 file system, which is the root FS, on a RAID 1 array where
> > one drive failed.  No problem, I replace it and the array starts to
> > rebuild. It gets to 99% done and finds a bad block on the source drive.
> > So, it starts over going into an endless rebuild loop.
> >
> > I booted to Knoppix and ran e2fsck -cc (Should this have been -c ?) on
> > the partition,  /dev/hda1, (not the RAID array), but that did not work.
> > The rebuild still found the bad block.
> >
> > So, I need to some how mark the block bad (I have the number) so that the
> > RAID rebuild will complete.
> >
> > The system seems to run fine with the bad block, it just will not rebuild
> > the RAID array. The distro is Fedora 6.
> >
> > Any ideas here?
> >
> > FYI: Yes I am replacing the source drive as soon as I get the the RAID
> > array working again.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Stan
> > _______________________________________________
> > mdlug mailing list
> > mdlug at mdlug.org
> > http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
> danno
> --
> dan pritts
> danno at umich.edu
> 734-929-9770


From fulner at gmail.com  Wed Dec 24 12:21:11 2008
From: fulner at gmail.com (Robert Jim Fulner)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 11:21:11 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] Battery memory issue
Message-ID: <c768576f0812240921l3f16c9c4l131b826c00ec1857@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings,

My wife has had her laptop about a year now. Even though I had
suggested otherwise she more or less has kept the machine plugged in
all the time.

Now that we are away on vacation the machine stays on for about 6
minutes not plugged in. Aside from buying a new battery, is there
anything we can do to improve functionality?

If it matters, she runs windoze vista home edition, and I boot DSL off
of usb when she's not looking. (she doesn't like me "penginizing" her
computer).

Jim

-- 
Sent from my mobile device


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Wed Dec 24 14:04:06 2008
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 14:04:06 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Battery memory issue
In-Reply-To: <c768576f0812240921l3f16c9c4l131b826c00ec1857@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c768576f0812240921l3f16c9c4l131b826c00ec1857@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380812241104o7598762ai6e2cac319ae658dc@mail.gmail.com>

 --- Robert Jim Fulner wrote:

> My wife has had her laptop about a year now. Even though I had
> suggested otherwise she more or less has kept the machine plugged in
> all the time.
> Now that we are away on vacation the machine stays on for about 6
> minutes not plugged in. Aside from buying a new battery, is there
> anything we can do to improve functionality?

Unfortunately, no.  Unlike the older nickel-cadmium (NiCd) batteries,
nickel-metal hydride (NiMH) and lithium-ion (Li-ion) batteries do NOT
exhibit memory effects -- dead is nearly always dead.  Except in
EXTREMELY rare instances, one a newer battery goes toes-up, there's
nothing that can restore it.  You may even find (especially with Li
batteries) that the battery itself has changed shape -- defective
cells often swell and cause noticeable bulging.

~~  Michael Rudas
    My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
    My blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Wed Dec 24 14:10:19 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 14:10:19 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Battery memory issue
In-Reply-To: <c768576f0812240921l3f16c9c4l131b826c00ec1857@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c768576f0812240921l3f16c9c4l131b826c00ec1857@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1230145819.10672.9.camel@peter-notebook.site>


On Wed, 2008-12-24 at 11:21 -0600, Robert Jim Fulner wrote:
> Greetings,
> 
> My wife has had her laptop about a year now. Even though I had
> suggested otherwise she more or less has kept the machine plugged in
> all the time.
> 
> Now that we are away on vacation the machine stays on for about 6
> minutes not plugged in. Aside from buying a new battery, is there
> anything we can do to improve functionality?
> 
> If it matters, she runs windoze vista home edition, and I boot DSL off
> of usb when she's not looking. (she doesn't like me "penginizing" her
> computer).
> 
> Jim

Dear Jim,
	From what I can see when I search "battery memory issues", you're wife
may have let the magic smoke escape the battery. Wikipedia says there
are many urban legends regarding reviving notebook batteries. These are
two of the sites that came up on the search
<http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm>,
<http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=91846> and they; as
well as almost all of the others; advise against leaving the battery in
while constantly connected. I feel your pain, I have one of those kind
of computers as well and I'm sure I'll be buying a new battery soon. I
usually "accidentally" unplug this notebook as a matter of course.
Matter of fact I think I'm going to do that right now.

Best Regards,

-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From tesral at comcast.net  Wed Dec 24 14:05:20 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 14:05:20 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Battery memory issue
In-Reply-To: <c768576f0812240921l3f16c9c4l131b826c00ec1857@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c768576f0812240921l3f16c9c4l131b826c00ec1857@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <495287F0.8080109@comcast.net>

Robert Jim Fulner wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> My wife has had her laptop about a year now. Even though I had
> suggested otherwise she more or less has kept the machine plugged in
> all the time.
>
> Now that we are away on vacation the machine stays on for about 6
> minutes not plugged in. Aside from buying a new battery, is there
> anything we can do to improve functionality?
>
> If it matters, she runs windoze vista home edition, and I boot DSL off
> of usb when she's not looking. (she doesn't like me "penginizing" her
> computer).
>   

We had one woman in DCG that was afraid of Linux, she actually cowered
away from a Knopix boot.  And this was someone that was once an active
Amiga user.

I don't do windows.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From peter at petertheplumber.net  Wed Dec 24 14:21:38 2008
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 14:21:38 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Conditioned Behavior was Re:  Battery memory issue
In-Reply-To: <495287F0.8080109@comcast.net>
References: <c768576f0812240921l3f16c9c4l131b826c00ec1857@mail.gmail.com>
	<495287F0.8080109@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1230146498.10672.18.camel@peter-notebook.site>


On Wed, 2008-12-24 at 14:05 -0500, Garry Stahl wrote:
> Robert Jim Fulner wrote:
> > Greetings,
> >
> > My wife has had her laptop about a year now. Even though I had
> > suggested otherwise she more or less has kept the machine plugged in
> > all the time.
> >
> > Now that we are away on vacation the machine stays on for about 6
> > minutes not plugged in. Aside from buying a new battery, is there
> > anything we can do to improve functionality?
> >
> > If it matters, she runs windoze vista home edition, and I boot DSL off
> > of usb when she's not looking. (she doesn't like me "penginizing" her
> > computer).
> >   
> 
> We had one woman in DCG that was afraid of Linux, she actually cowered
> away from a Knopix boot.  And this was someone that was once an active
> Amiga user.
> 
> I don't do windows.

	I have my own snippet here. Our step daughter just came home with a new
cell phone wondering out loud how she was going to get music onto it.
Before I could even open my mouth she almost shouted it couldn't be done
with Linux because it said so right on the cd. So I copied a song to a
micro SD card, shoved it in her phone and played it for her.
	As an aside, I seem to have cemented my place as the crazy old man that
plays with penguins!

Best Regards,

-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From otakurider at gmail.com  Wed Dec 24 19:25:50 2008
From: otakurider at gmail.com (-)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 19:25:50 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] mondorescue fedora 10
Message-ID: <cd5131a50812241625x11b895a0k83657ea636703d6a@mail.gmail.com>

Anyone had good luck getting mindi/mondorescue installed from source on to
fedora 10 or do anyone have a location for the RPM.

During mindi built it tells me I need isolinux installed but the links seem
to be broke.


Thanks


From jjn at nuge.com  Sat Dec 27 10:24:17 2008
From: jjn at nuge.com (Jay Nugent)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 10:24:17 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Mac vs. Windows vs. Linux
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0812271023080.1067-100000@home.nuge.com>

Greetings,
   This was bound to happen...

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVOnFdMf0RU
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa1RCg-Ccp0


   Enjoy!
      --- Jay
             
In response to the issue about dumbing-down Amateur Radio, a fellow Ham 
said:    "Would you like fries with that emergency communication?"
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Jay Nugent   jjn at nuge.com    (734)484-5105    (734)649-0850/Cell       |
|   Nugent Telecommunications  [www.nuge.com]                            |
|   Internet Consulting/Linux SysAdmin/Engineering & Design/ISP Reseller |
| ISP Monitoring [www.ispmonitor.org] ISP & Modem Performance Monitoring |
| Web-Pegasus    [www.webpegasus.com] Web Hosting/DNS Hosting/Shell Accts|
| LinuxNIC, Inc. [www.linuxnic.net]   Registrar of the .linux TLD        |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 10:01am  up 27 days, 18:14,  4 users,  load average: 0.00, 0.02, 0.02




From tesral at comcast.net  Sat Dec 27 12:22:27 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 12:22:27 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Mac vs. Windows vs. Linux
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0812271023080.1067-100000@home.nuge.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0812271023080.1067-100000@home.nuge.com>
Message-ID: <49566453.7090408@comcast.net>

Jay Nugent wrote:
> Greetings,
>    This was bound to happen...
>
>       http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVOnFdMf0RU
>       http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa1RCg-Ccp0
>
>
>   

Those are ancient.  Cute, but ancient.


-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From drew4096 at gmail.com  Sun Dec 28 16:33:37 2008
From: drew4096 at gmail.com (Drew)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 16:33:37 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Hard drives
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20081228163137.02b7b610@pop.gmail.com>

Does anyone have anything good, bad, or ugly to say about this hard drive?

<http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0300550>

----

- Drew.



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Sun Dec 28 16:47:05 2008
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 16:47:05 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Hard drives
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20081228163137.02b7b610@pop.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20081228163137.02b7b610@pop.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8aa4d8e50812281347p3c5a424aq65724ca45625c1bf@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 4:33 PM, Drew <drew4096 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Does anyone have anything good, bad, or ugly to say about this hard drive?
>
> <http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0300550>
>

Not gonna work very well with the cover off and all sorts of gigantic
dust particles
10x bigger than the "flying height" of the heads getting between those heads
and the platters.

So, it's kind of expensive for a high-tech paperweight.
As a personal policy, I don't take the cover off until AFTER it's
stopped working.

:-)


From driveray at ameritech.net  Sun Dec 28 17:03:27 2008
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 17:03:27 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Hard drives
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20081228163137.02b7b610@pop.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20081228163137.02b7b610@pop.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4957F7AF.40308@ameritech.net>

I never heard of Jupiter brand Hard drives before you pointed this out. 
A little googling found that they are produced by ExcelStor, apparently 
a new Chinese manufacturer <http://www.excelstor.com/en/index.asp>:

   ExcelStor Technology Ltd is a Hard Disk Drive Company found in the
   year of 2001. She manufactures her own hard disk drives in Shenzhen,
   China. She owns the state-of-art Clean room, Testing and Production
   facilities. The factory is managed by a team of professionals with
   at least a decade of disk drive manufacturing experience from USA,
   Singapore, Malaysia, etc. The factory is running with an objective
   of manufacturing excellence at all level of staff with uncompromising
   emphasis on quality performance. The factory has also a dedicated
   team of Continuation Engineering expertise who are focusing on
   continuous improvement of product performance, reliability and
   quality.

I wonder if calling the company "she" if purely a translation error, of 
if they are trying to appeal to the mostly male mind share in the tech 
market. :)

Drew wrote:
> Does anyone have anything good, bad, or ugly to say about this hard drive?
> 
> <http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0300550>
> 
> ----
> 
> - Drew.


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Sun Dec 28 17:27:20 2008
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 17:27:20 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Hard drives
In-Reply-To: <4957F7AF.40308@ameritech.net>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20081228163137.02b7b610@pop.gmail.com>
	<4957F7AF.40308@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <8aa4d8e50812281427g1d378e32g32a01e70a6bbc067@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 5:03 PM, Raymond McLaughlin
<driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
> I never heard of Jupiter brand Hard drives before you pointed this out.
> A little googling found that they are produced by ExcelStor, apparently
> a new Chinese manufacturer <http://www.excelstor.com/en/index.asp>:
>
>   ExcelStor Technology Ltd is a Hard Disk Drive Company found in the
>   year of 2001. She manufactures her own hard disk drives in Shenzhen,
>   China. She owns the state-of-art Clean room, Testing and Production
>   facilities. The factory is managed by a team of professionals with
>   at least a decade of disk drive manufacturing experience from USA,
>   Singapore, Malaysia, etc. The factory is running with an objective
>   of manufacturing excellence at all level of staff with uncompromising
>   emphasis on quality performance. The factory has also a dedicated
>   team of Continuation Engineering expertise who are focusing on
>   continuous improvement of product performance, reliability and
>   quality.
>
> I wonder if calling the company "she" if purely a translation error, of
> if they are trying to appeal to the mostly male mind share in the tech
> market. :)
>

Common translation error from over-gendered languages in which
even inanimate objects are male and female.


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Sun Dec 28 18:52:04 2008
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 18:52:04 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Hard drives
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20081228163137.02b7b610@pop.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20081228163137.02b7b610@pop.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380812281552r12673340q83278ab9156620ba@mail.gmail.com>

--- Drew wrote:

> Does anyone have anything good, bad, or ugly to say about this hard drive?
(ExelStor model J9250 "Jupiter 250")

As you may (or may not) know, I have been dealing with hard drives
since 1983 (even repairing several), so I'm pretty picky about HDs.

I bought one of these because it was IDE and cheap (~$45 out-the-door
sale price), then I researched the company.  As far as I can
determine, the management are mostly ex-IBM and Western Digital (the
"Jupiter" drive has EXACTLY the same geometry as the WD Caviar 250GB
IDE)  -- they have a U.S. R & D facility in MiniScribe's old Longmont
CO digs, and they have done OEM work for Hitachi Storage.

It's reasonably fast (7200 RPM spindle), runs quiet and cool, and
seems well-built.  I'm so pleased with it I bought another.  That's a
recommendation.

~~  Michael Rudas
    My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
    My blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com


From painbank at gmail.com  Mon Dec 29 09:42:12 2008
From: painbank at gmail.com (Rich Elswick)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 09:42:12 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Battery memory issue
In-Reply-To: <c768576f0812240921l3f16c9c4l131b826c00ec1857@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c768576f0812240921l3f16c9c4l131b826c00ec1857@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cafacd830812290642j4c575ea8ye39135ec30303999@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Jim,

If you want to know what the battery is capable of, then look at the
Amp-Hour (Ah) rating of the battery, then hook up a rig (seperate from the
laptop), use the appropriate charging and discharging strategy for you
battery type, charge it to 100% State of Charge (SOC), then dischage to to
0% SOC to get the present Ah rating of your battery.  NOTE: Monitor
everything very closely.  Perhaps even doing it in a detached garage,
perhaps even done outside.  Monitor the voltages and temperatures.  Then
after all that, look up the cost of a replacement battery and realize how
much time you just wasted and then buy a new one anyways. :)

DISCLAIMER: I am not responsible for anything you do based upon the
suggestions above, your actions are your own and therefore up for a
nominations to the Darwin Awards should something untoward happen.

Rich Elswick



On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 12:21 PM, Robert Jim Fulner <fulner at gmail.com>wrote:

> Greetings,
>
> My wife has had her laptop about a year now. Even though I had
> suggested otherwise she more or less has kept the machine plugged in
> all the time.
>
> Now that we are away on vacation the machine stays on for about 6
> minutes not plugged in. Aside from buying a new battery, is there
> anything we can do to improve functionality?
>
> If it matters, she runs windoze vista home edition, and I boot DSL off
> of usb when she's not looking. (she doesn't like me "penginizing" her
> computer).
>
> Jim
>
> --
> Sent from my mobile device
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>



-- 
Rich Elswick
http://www.moyaentertainment.com


From wolfger at gmail.com  Tue Dec 30 13:52:07 2008
From: wolfger at gmail.com (Wolfger)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 13:52:07 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Mac vs. Windows vs. Linux
In-Reply-To: <49566453.7090408@comcast.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0812271023080.1067-100000@home.nuge.com>
	<49566453.7090408@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <3b00b3330812301052o67529231h4c3d2f9560be666a@mail.gmail.com>

It's embarassing that they don't play properly on my Ubuntu box. Video
is choppy, sound isn't working right.


On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 12:22 PM, Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:
> Jay Nugent wrote:
>> Greetings,
>>    This was bound to happen...
>>
>>       http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVOnFdMf0RU
>>       http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa1RCg-Ccp0
>>
>>
>>
>
> Those are ancient.  Cute, but ancient.
>
>
> --
> Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.
>
> Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
> Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
> The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
> Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>



-- 
Wolfger
http://wolfger.wordpress.com/

The world is a mess, and I just... need to rule it.


From Stan at mcomputersolutions.com  Tue Dec 30 16:54:01 2008
From: Stan at mcomputersolutions.com (Stan Green)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 16:54:01 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Serializing ide controllers
Message-ID: <200812301654.01978.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>

I'm getting these errors like these in my system messages.

hdl: dma_intr: bad DMA status (dma_stat=75)
hdl: dma_intr: status=0x50 { DriveReady SeekComplete }
ide: failed opcode was: unknown

This is happening on more than one drive. (There are 11 drives in the system.)

A search of the internet turned up that trying serializing the ide controllers 
in the kernel parameters. The syntax suggested is:
ide0=serialize ide1=serialize ide2=serialize ide3=serialize ide4=serialize 
ide5=serialize

Given this, does this seem like a reasonable thing to do? If not, any other 
suggestions? Also what is the effect on performace by serializing?

Thanks,
Stan


From Stan at mcomputersolutions.com  Tue Dec 30 16:57:59 2008
From: Stan at mcomputersolutions.com (Stan Green)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 16:57:59 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Anyone using Darwin?
Message-ID: <200812301657.59546.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>

Is anyone using Darwin on Linux to stream mp4 videos on the web? I'm trying it 
out, but I'm not sure how to make it work.

Thanks,
Stan Green


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Tue Dec 30 22:39:40 2008
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 22:39:40 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Serializing ide controllers
In-Reply-To: <200812301654.01978.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
References: <200812301654.01978.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380812301939i4205ebf4t37b9acef9418012c@mail.gmail.com>

--- Stan Green wrote:

> I'm getting these errors like these in my system messages:
> hdl: dma_intr: bad DMA status (dma_stat=75)
> hdl: dma_intr: status=0x50 { DriveReady SeekComplete }
> ide: failed opcode was: unknown

> This is happening on more than one drive
>  (there are 11 drives in the system).

A search of the internet turned up trying to serialize the IDE
controllers in the kernel parameters. The syntax suggested is:
ide0=serialize ide1=serialize ide2=serialize ide3=serialize
ide4=serialize ide5=serialize

Given this, does this seem like a reasonable thing to do? If not, any
other suggestions? Also what is the effect on performance by
serializing?

You may find "smartmontools" useful here (it's in most repositories):
<http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net>

Due to the nature of IDE, if a drive is failing or otherwise balky the
problem is not always direct traceable to the faulty drive in a
multi-drive system.  The SMART tools may give you a better handle on
what's going on.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.M.A.R.T.>

~~ Michael Rudas
   My home page: http://MRudas.2Ya.com
   My blog: http://FaveSoft.blogspot.com


From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Tue Dec 30 23:05:22 2008
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Robert Meier)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 23:05:22 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Serializing ide controllers
In-Reply-To: <200812301654.01978.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com> (message from
	Stan Green on Tue, 30 Dec 2008 16:54:01 -0500)
References: <200812301654.01978.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <20081231040522.9B65F20AAAA@starfox.local>

Stan,

I hope the following, gleaned from google (not personal experience) will help.

> This is happening on more than one drive.
> (There are 11 drives in the system.)

An ordinary x386 machine has only 14 interrupts, (a limitation low enough
that has mandated programmer thriftiness from the 1980s).

Increases in cpu speed has reduced the time required to handle interrupts,
but increasing peripheral speed has increased the frequency of interrupts.
To date, cpu speed is clearly ahead, but losing its edge as processor
advances are slowed by physical limits, and peripheral speed catches up.

For typical systems with only 1 or two ide controllers, reserving typically
2 and sometimes an expensive 4 interrupts is sufficient to prevent any
drive requests from colliding.  With 11 drives, it is infeasible to reserve
an interrupt for each and frequent collisions are almost inevitable.

>From googling, I understand that the serialize option directs the ide
drivers to poll the devices that share an interrupt and to service each
interrupt sequentially.  This avoids collisions (in like manner to CDMA
radiotelephony) but requires that each hard disk wait for its neighbors
sharing the "party line" interrupt.  Unless your disks are nearly
always seeking, I doubt you'll notice the difference.  If this is a high
occupancy server, intended to maximize disk throughput, this might limit
your maximum throughput to half.

My casual search did not locate a current reference,
but as linux is sometimes used for disk farms, I suspect that you
(or someone else) may find a disk driver (or even a specialized distro)
that more intelligently coordinates a large number of attached disks.

Hopefully helpful,
-- 
Bob

  "People think computers will keep them from making mistakes.
   They're wrong. With computers you make mistakes faster."
     -- Adam Osborne


From mark at metrofindings.com  Wed Dec 31 10:31:30 2008
From: mark at metrofindings.com (Mark Kimsal)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 10:31:30 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Hard drives
Message-ID: <200812311031.30231.mark@metrofindings.com>



On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 17:27:20 -0500, "Aaron Kulkis" <akulkis00 at gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 5:03 PM, Raymond McLaughlin
> <driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
>> I never heard of Jupiter brand Hard drives before you pointed this out.
>> A little googling found that they are produced by ExcelStor, apparently
>> a new Chinese manufacturer <http://www.excelstor.com/en/index.asp>:
>>
>>   ExcelStor Technology Ltd is a Hard Disk Drive Company found in the
>>   year of 2001. She manufactures her own hard disk drives in Shenzhen,
>>   China. She owns the state-of-art Clean room, Testing and Production
>>   facilities. The factory is managed by a team of professionals with
>>   at least a decade of disk drive manufacturing experience from USA,
>>   Singapore, Malaysia, etc. The factory is running with an objective
>>   of manufacturing excellence at all level of staff with uncompromising
>>   emphasis on quality performance. The factory has also a dedicated
>>   team of Continuation Engineering expertise who are focusing on
>>   continuous improvement of product performance, reliability and
>>   quality.
>>
>> I wonder if calling the company "she" if purely a translation error, of
>> if they are trying to appeal to the mostly male mind share in the tech
>> market. :)
>>
> 
> Common translation error from over-gendered languages in which
> even inanimate objects are male and female.

That's usually for languages which have prominent gender, like romance 
languages and germanic languages.  Chinese has none, and English has gender 
limited to pronouns (and sometimes boats).  This is a common Chinese 
translation error because the pronouns - in mainland Chinese - "he", "she" 
and "it" are all pronounced the exact same ("ta"), the only difference is in 
the way they are written.  Getting he/she correct is really difficult for 
Chinese speakers because they don't have to think about those types of 
pronoun differences when speaking their own language.  Add to that, the fact 
that *sometimes* we refer to countries, ships, and cars as "she" or "her" 
(i.e. "her maiden voyage", "my homeland's mother tongue"), and you'll often 
hear Chinese people mixing up English he/she in everyday speech.

> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Dec 31 20:55:27 2008
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 20:55:27 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Article: Hard to hear at holiday parties? Blame your brain
Message-ID: <b02c40e90812311755i238c03b8ya64177db1f3903e2@mail.gmail.com>

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081229/ap_on_he_me/sci_holiday_hearing_loss


