From wolfger at gmail.com  Fri Jun  1 07:32:17 2007
From: wolfger at gmail.com (Wolfger)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 07:32:17 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE!
Message-ID: <3b00b3330706010432q6a974415r469a306223debc4c@mail.gmail.com>

http://lolcode.com/home

-- 
Wolfger
http://wolfger.wordpress.com/
http://1fjordaroad.wordpress.com/
AOL IM: wolf4coyot
Yahoo!Messenger: wolfgersilberbaer
Skype: wolfger88


From radkins at impelind.com  Fri Jun  1 08:41:06 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 08:41:06 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE!
In-Reply-To: <3b00b3330706010432q6a974415r469a306223debc4c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3b00b3330706010432q6a974415r469a306223debc4c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <466013E2.2000208@impelind.com>

Is it wrong that I actually understand the "code"?

Wolfger wrote:
> http://lolcode.com/home
>
>   


From micorral at comcast.net  Fri Jun  1 10:35:59 2007
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 10:35:59 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Subject: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE!
Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.4.64.0706011034140.2540@w2zzzp0601.amer.corp.eds.com>

Wolfger a ecrit:
> http://lolcode.com/home

Well, it is more readable...

Michael


From ebradley01 at wowway.com  Fri Jun  1 13:10:40 2007
From: ebradley01 at wowway.com (ebradley01 at wowway.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 13:10:40 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] President's mail bag - Store to offer Linux preinstalled
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1180713601.11527.mdlug@mdlug.org>
References: <mailman.3.1180713601.11527.mdlug@mdlug.org>
Message-ID: <20070601170512.M9124@wowway.com>

<snip>

We are also considering offering preloaded laptops. Currently
I have an Ubuntu 7.04 system decked out with the full Compiz/Beryl 3D
desktop. The reaction to it has been overwhelmingly positive. It is
helping to show that Linux is ready for home use.

The Sytem Specs are:
AMD Athlon 64 3200+
1 GB DDR2 Memory
80 GB SATA2 Hard Drive
18X Dual Layer DVD Burner
MSI Nvidia 7300GT PCIe Card

We are selling the system for $399.

</snip>

This seems like a really good deal to me...at least, when taken at face-value.
 Anything other than the above specs that should be considered when pricing a
laptop for general usage purposes? (Internet, email, multimedia playback, no
games...)  

Just looking to get everyone's opinion...


Evan

--
"The road of life is rocky, and you may stumble too.  So while you point your
finger; someone else is judging you."  --Bob Marley


---------- Original Message -----------
From: mdlug-request at mdlug.org
To: mdlug at mdlug.org
Sent: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 12:00:01 -0400
Subject: mdlug Digest, Vol 10, Issue 1

> Send mdlug mailing list submissions to
> 	mdlug at mdlug.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	mdlug-request at mdlug.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	mdlug-owner at mdlug.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of mdlug digest..."
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Converting DVDs to play on a Palm (Ingles, Raymond)
>    2. President's mail bag - Store to offer Linux preinstalled
>       (Raymond McLaughlin)
>    3. Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE! (Wolfger)
>    4. Re: Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE! (Robert Adkins)
>    5. Re: Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE! (Michael Corral)
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 18:03:18 -0400
> From: "Ingles, Raymond" <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com>
> Subject: [mdlug] Converting DVDs to play on a Palm
> To: "Mdlug (E-mail)" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DAB at nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
> 	
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
>  I got a spare 512MB SD card and decided to try this out, since I'd 
> heard of people doing it. So, I did some googling and put together a 
> script or two to handle this.
> 
>  Basically, you use "mencoder" to read the DVD and convert it to 
> DIVX format, scaling the video to fit the 320x320 screen. I also 
> compress the audio to 128Kbit MP3 format, since I don't need a Dolby 
> soundtrack. :-> I've had very good results with a 224Mbit/sec video 
> rate. It looks quite good on the screen, better than VHS (certainly 
> richer color).
> 
>  Last night I converted the movie "Aliens". It's a 154-minute movie 
> in 16x9 format. It converted down to a 320x180 image, and takes up 
> 403MB on the card. That took approximately an hour and twenty 
> minutes on my dual-2GHz Athlon system. (If I used one-pass encoding 
> it would have been about half that.)
> 
> I let the movie run all the way through (two hours and 34 minutes) 
> today as the Treo 650 sat on my desk as I worked (with the sound 
> muted) and my battery went from 99% to 77%. Not bad.
> 
>  It's a toy, sure, but might be fun on a long trip. I could fit five 
> or six half-hour TV shows on my card easily. Anyway, if anyone's 
> interested, the script I use is below.
> 
>  Sincerely,
> 
>  Ray Ingles                                   (313) 227-2317
> 
>  "Computers let you make more mistakes faster than any other
>  invention in human history, with the possible exception of
>         handguns and tequila." - Mitch Radcliffe
> 
> ---begin dvd2palm.sh---
> #!/bin/sh
> 
> # Converts DVDs to AVI files suitable for viewing on a Palm w/TCPMP
> 
> # If you're skipping frames, increase FPS. If duplicating, decrease FPS.
> # Usual values are 24000/1001 (23.976), 24, 25 (PAL), 30000/1001 (29.97), 30.
> FPS=24000/1001
> 
> # My Palm has a 320x320 screen. If you have a 480x320 screen, try "480" here.
> SCALEW=320
> 
> # Set audio mode - these are arranged in decreasing order of likelyhood
> # to sync properly
> 
> # Full AC3 audio, takes up a fair amount of space.
> #AUDIO=copy
> # Constant bit rate MP3, the 'br' field sets the bit rate
> AUDIO="mp3lame -lameopts cbr:br=128"
> # Average bit rate MP3, the 'br' field sets the bit rate
> #AUDIO="mp3lame -lameopts abr:br=128"
> # Variable bit rate MP3, sometimes has sync problems
> #AUDIO="mp3lame -lameopts vbr=3"
> 
> # Set crop, if needed
> # Get these numbers by running the command: mplayer -ss 60 -vf
scale=320:-2,cropdetect dvd://[track number]
> #CROP=",crop=320:160:0:28"
> 
> # For mixed progressive/telecined content
> #PULLUP=",pullup,softskip"
> 
> # Set video bit rate, feel free to experiment here to see what fits
> VBITRATE=224
> #VBITRATE=336
> #VBITRATE=448
> 
> # Use DIVX
> DIVX="-ffourcc divx"
> 
> # These are the key parameters we gotta have from the user.
> # Spaces in the output file name are probably not a good idea.
> DVDTITLE=$1
> NEWNAME=$2.avi
> 
> # These are optional parameters that can be tweaked but have default values.
> # You might want to change the default to match your system.
> DVDDEV=${3:-"/dev/dvd"}
> # 128 is the default audio track on a DVD, usually
> AUDIOTRACK=${4:-128}
> 
> # Make sure we got the minimum info needed.
> if [ -z "${DVDTITLE}" -o -z "$2" ]; then
>  echo "Usage: " $0 " dvd-title output-name [dvd-device] [audio-
> track]" exit -1 fi
> 
> # Just in case one's left over from a previous encoding run.
> rm -rf divx2pass.log
> 
> # Two-pass encoding, takes longer but produces best quality for a given bitrate
> mencoder -dvd-device ${DVDDEV} dvd://${DVDTITLE} -aid ${AUDIOTRACK} -
> ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg4:vpass=1:vbi trate=${VBITRATE} -ofps 
> ${FPS} ${DIVX} -oac ${AUDIO} -vf scale=${SCALEW}:-2${CROP}${PULLUP} -
> o /dev/null
> 
> mencoder -dvd-device ${DVDDEV} dvd://${DVDTITLE} -aid ${AUDIOTRACK} -
> ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg4:vpass=2:vbi trate=${VBITRATE} -ofps 
> ${FPS} ${DIVX} -oac ${AUDIO} -vf scale=${SCALEW}:-2${CROP}${PULLUP} -
> o ${NEWNAME}
> 
> # Clean up after ourselves.
> rm -rf divx2pass.log
> ----end dvd2palm.sh----
> 
> The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee 
> only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you 
> are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy 
> or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in 
> error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 23:45:25 -0400
> From: Raymond McLaughlin <driveray at ameritech.net>
> Subject: [mdlug] President's mail bag - Store to offer Linux
> 	preinstalled
> To: "mdlug at mdlug.org" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Message-ID: <465F9655.8010007 at ameritech.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> Mr. Hughs,
> 
> Thank you for contacting me. I find your idea both intriguing and
> exciting. Right now I am swamped with other pressing business, but I
> hope to be able to provide more extensive input in the next few weeks.
> 
> For the time being I will pass your letter on to our membership. I must
> tell you that Computer Builders Warehouse got something of a bad
> reputation in our group a couple of years ago. If I recall they were
> promoting questionable MS 'facts' of some sort. I don't recall the
> details off hand. Your project could go a long ways toward changing this.
> 
> I hope to be able to drop by your store some time in the next few weeks.
> Is there any chance that your store could accommodate a "mini 
> meeting" of about a dozen people? Just a thought. In the mean time I 
> suggest that you join one or more of our mailing lists to get an 
> idea of our group's inclinations. Be warned that purely commercial 
> postings are considered spam, and greatly frowned upon.
> 
> I hope to see you soon
> Raymond McLaughlin
> President MDLUG
> 
> Rich Hughes wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello Mr. McLaughlin,
> > >
> > > My name is Rich Hughes, I manage the Computer Builders Warehouse store
> > > inside Great Lakes Crossing. I also run www.linuxtechdaily.com
> > > <http://www.linuxtechdaily.com> and have written for other Linux
> websites.
> > >
> > > I'm writing to announce to you and your group that my store in Great
> > > Lakes Crossing has been approved for a pilot program, offering Linux
> > > based systems. If it is successful it will expand to our other
> > > locations. We are also considering offering preloaded laptops. Currently
> > > I have an Ubuntu 7.04 system decked out with the full Compiz/Beryl 3D
> > > desktop. The reaction to it has been overwhelmingly positive. It is
> > > helping to show that Linux is ready for home use.
> > >
> > > The Sytem Specs are:
> > > AMD Athlon 64 3200+
> > > 1 GB DDR2 Memory
> > > 80 GB SATA2 Hard Drive
> > > 18X Dual Layer DVD Burner
> > > MSI Nvidia 7300GT PCIe Card
> > >
> > > We are selling the system for $399.  We have the ability to custom build
> > > any system and load any version of Linux on it, but are trying this
> > > combo out to see how it does. I believe our non-propriatery, open
> > > architecture systems are a perfect match for Free Software.
> > >
> > > Frankly, I'm asking for MDLUG's support. I think there is enormous
> > > potential for success here. With the failure of Vista, and the strides
> > > Linux is making, I think now is the time. I'd love to get your members
> > > out here into the store to check out this system.
> > >
> > > I'm also interested in feedback in what systems people might be
> > > interested in. Distro, system specs, etc...
> > > If anyone wants to check out our website www.cbwstores.com
> > > <http://www.cbwstores.com> , look at our stock and let me know what they
> > > would be interested in, I'd be happy to email back a coupon. My email is
> > > rhughes at cbwstores.com <mailto:rhughes at cbwstores.com> .
> > >
> > > I appreciate your time, I hope your group gets excited about this. I
> > > think it is a great opportunity for the community, and for our stores.
> > > Feel free to call at any time or drop me an email.
> > >
> > > Thank You,
> > >
> > > Rich Hughes
> > > Store Manager
> > >
> > > Computer Builders Warehouse
> > > Great Lakes Crossing
> > > 4354 Baldwin Road - Ste. 708
> > > Auburn Hills, MI 48326
> > > Tel: (248) 334-3061
> > > Fax: (248) 334-5373
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 07:32:17 -0400
> From: Wolfger <wolfger at gmail.com>
> Subject: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE!
> To: "MDLUG Main" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<3b00b3330706010432q6a974415r469a306223debc4c at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> http://lolcode.com/home
> 
> -- 
> Wolfger
> http://wolfger.wordpress.com/
> http://1fjordaroad.wordpress.com/
> AOL IM: wolf4coyot
> Yahoo!Messenger: wolfgersilberbaer
> Skype: wolfger88
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 08:41:06 -0400
> From: Robert Adkins <radkins at impelind.com>
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE!
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Message-ID: <466013E2.2000208 at impelind.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> Is it wrong that I actually understand the "code"?
> 
> Wolfger wrote:
> > http://lolcode.com/home
> >
> >
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 10:35:59 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
> From: Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE!
> To: MDLUG <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<Pine.WNT.4.64.0706011034140.2540 at w2zzzp0601.amer.corp.eds.com>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
> 
> Wolfger a ecrit:
> > http://lolcode.com/home
> 
> Well, it is more readable...
> 
> Michael
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 
> End of mdlug Digest, Vol 10, Issue 1
> ************************************
------- End of Original Message -------



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Fri Jun  1 13:32:01 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 13:32:01 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] President's mail bag - Store to offer Linux preinstalled
In-Reply-To: <20070601170512.M9124@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DB2@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>


> From: ebradley01 at wowway.com

>> We are also considering offering preloaded laptops.

>> We are selling the system for $399.

> This seems like a really good deal to me...at least, when 
> taken at face-value.

 I'm pretty sure that's for a *desktop*, not a laptop, and no monitor,
though I can see where the phrasing would be confusing. A laptop with
those specs at that price would be a ridiculously good value.

 Even so, I'd be tempted to pick up such a machine at that price.
That'd be a heck of a nice desktop machine.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                                 (313) 227-2317

 "I do not contribute anything material to the competitive landscape. I am
  there to give players of actual merit a break between epic struggles."
                                - Tycho

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. 


From god_of_lemmings at usol.com  Fri Jun  1 14:57:25 2007
From: god_of_lemmings at usol.com (God of Lemmings)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 14:57:25 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Fwd: President's mail bag - Store to offer Linux
	preinstalled
Message-ID: <2b422319b633d4c17beeda31dcc8fdeb@usol.com>


Note about the current nvidia video drivers:  The newer ones have a  
memory leak that nvidia has been
working on for a few months already, it appears when compositing is  
enabled, and such compositing
is required for Compiz and Beryl. You may wish to read about it at  
nvidia:s forums.



Begin forwarded message:

> From: ebradley01 at wowway.com
> Date: June 1, 2007 1:10:40 PM EST
> To: mdlug at mdlug.org
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] President's mail bag - Store to offer Linux  
> preinstalled
> Reply-To: "MDLUG's Main discussion list" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>
> <snip>
>
> We are also considering offering preloaded laptops. Currently
> I have an Ubuntu 7.04 system decked out with the full Compiz/Beryl 3D
> desktop. The reaction to it has been overwhelmingly positive. It is
> helping to show that Linux is ready for home use.
>
> The Sytem Specs are:
> AMD Athlon 64 3200+
> 1 GB DDR2 Memory
> 80 GB SATA2 Hard Drive
> 18X Dual Layer DVD Burner
> MSI Nvidia 7300GT PCIe Card
>
> We are selling the system for $399.
>
> </snip>
>
> This seems like a really good deal to me...at least, when taken at  
> face-value.
>  Anything other than the above specs that should be considered when  
> pricing a
> laptop for general usage purposes? (Internet, email, multimedia  
> playback, no
> games...)
>
> Just looking to get everyone's opinion...
>
>
> Evan
>
> --
> "The road of life is rocky, and you may stumble too.  So while you  
> point your
> finger; someone else is judging you."  --Bob Marley
>
>
> ---------- Original Message -----------
> From: mdlug-request at mdlug.org
> To: mdlug at mdlug.org
> Sent: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 12:00:01 -0400
> Subject: mdlug Digest, Vol 10, Issue 1
>
>> Send mdlug mailing list submissions to
>> 	mdlug at mdlug.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> 	http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> 	mdlug-request at mdlug.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> 	mdlug-owner at mdlug.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of mdlug digest..."
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>    1. Converting DVDs to play on a Palm (Ingles, Raymond)
>>    2. President's mail bag - Store to offer Linux preinstalled
>>       (Raymond McLaughlin)
>>    3. Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE! (Wolfger)
>>    4. Re: Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE! (Robert Adkins)
>>    5. Re: Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE! (Michael Corral)
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 18:03:18 -0400
>> From: "Ingles, Raymond" <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com>
>> Subject: [mdlug] Converting DVDs to play on a Palm
>> To: "Mdlug (E-mail)" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>> Message-ID:
>> 	<41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DAB at nasa-dtw- 
>> ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
>> 	
>> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>>  I got a spare 512MB SD card and decided to try this out, since I'd
>> heard of people doing it. So, I did some googling and put together a
>> script or two to handle this.
>>
>>  Basically, you use "mencoder" to read the DVD and convert it to
>> DIVX format, scaling the video to fit the 320x320 screen. I also
>> compress the audio to 128Kbit MP3 format, since I don't need a Dolby
>> soundtrack. :-> I've had very good results with a 224Mbit/sec video
>> rate. It looks quite good on the screen, better than VHS (certainly
>> richer color).
>>
>>  Last night I converted the movie "Aliens". It's a 154-minute movie
>> in 16x9 format. It converted down to a 320x180 image, and takes up
>> 403MB on the card. That took approximately an hour and twenty
>> minutes on my dual-2GHz Athlon system. (If I used one-pass encoding
>> it would have been about half that.)
>>
>> I let the movie run all the way through (two hours and 34 minutes)
>> today as the Treo 650 sat on my desk as I worked (with the sound
>> muted) and my battery went from 99% to 77%. Not bad.
>>
>>  It's a toy, sure, but might be fun on a long trip. I could fit five
>> or six half-hour TV shows on my card easily. Anyway, if anyone's
>> interested, the script I use is below.
>>
>>  Sincerely,
>>
>>  Ray Ingles                                   (313) 227-2317
>>
>>  "Computers let you make more mistakes faster than any other
>>  invention in human history, with the possible exception of
>>         handguns and tequila." - Mitch Radcliffe
>>
>> ---begin dvd2palm.sh---
>> #!/bin/sh
>>
>> # Converts DVDs to AVI files suitable for viewing on a Palm w/TCPMP
>>
>> # If you're skipping frames, increase FPS. If duplicating, decrease  
>> FPS.
>> # Usual values are 24000/1001 (23.976), 24, 25 (PAL), 30000/1001  
>> (29.97), 30.
>> FPS=24000/1001
>>
>> # My Palm has a 320x320 screen. If you have a 480x320 screen, try  
>> "480" here.
>> SCALEW=320
>>
>> # Set audio mode - these are arranged in decreasing order of  
>> likelyhood
>> # to sync properly
>>
>> # Full AC3 audio, takes up a fair amount of space.
>> #AUDIO=copy
>> # Constant bit rate MP3, the 'br' field sets the bit rate
>> AUDIO="mp3lame -lameopts cbr:br=128"
>> # Average bit rate MP3, the 'br' field sets the bit rate
>> #AUDIO="mp3lame -lameopts abr:br=128"
>> # Variable bit rate MP3, sometimes has sync problems
>> #AUDIO="mp3lame -lameopts vbr=3"
>>
>> # Set crop, if needed
>> # Get these numbers by running the command: mplayer -ss 60 -vf
> scale=320:-2,cropdetect dvd://[track number]
>> #CROP=",crop=320:160:0:28"
>>
>> # For mixed progressive/telecined content
>> #PULLUP=",pullup,softskip"
>>
>> # Set video bit rate, feel free to experiment here to see what fits
>> VBITRATE=224
>> #VBITRATE=336
>> #VBITRATE=448
>>
>> # Use DIVX
>> DIVX="-ffourcc divx"
>>
>> # These are the key parameters we gotta have from the user.
>> # Spaces in the output file name are probably not a good idea.
>> DVDTITLE=$1
>> NEWNAME=$2.avi
>>
>> # These are optional parameters that can be tweaked but have default  
>> values.
>> # You might want to change the default to match your system.
>> DVDDEV=${3:-"/dev/dvd"}
>> # 128 is the default audio track on a DVD, usually
>> AUDIOTRACK=${4:-128}
>>
>> # Make sure we got the minimum info needed.
>> if [ -z "${DVDTITLE}" -o -z "$2" ]; then
>>  echo "Usage: " $0 " dvd-title output-name [dvd-device] [audio-
>> track]" exit -1 fi
>>
>> # Just in case one's left over from a previous encoding run.
>> rm -rf divx2pass.log
>>
>> # Two-pass encoding, takes longer but produces best quality for a  
>> given bitrate
>> mencoder -dvd-device ${DVDDEV} dvd://${DVDTITLE} -aid ${AUDIOTRACK} -
>> ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg4:vpass=1:vbi trate=${VBITRATE} -ofps
>> ${FPS} ${DIVX} -oac ${AUDIO} -vf scale=${SCALEW}:-2${CROP}${PULLUP} -
>> o /dev/null
>>
>> mencoder -dvd-device ${DVDDEV} dvd://${DVDTITLE} -aid ${AUDIOTRACK} -
>> ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg4:vpass=2:vbi trate=${VBITRATE} -ofps
>> ${FPS} ${DIVX} -oac ${AUDIO} -vf scale=${SCALEW}:-2${CROP}${PULLUP} -
>> o ${NEWNAME}
>>
>> # Clean up after ourselves.
>> rm -rf divx2pass.log
>> ----end dvd2palm.sh----
>>
>> The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee
>> only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you
>> are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy
>> or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in
>> error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 23:45:25 -0400
>> From: Raymond McLaughlin <driveray at ameritech.net>
>> Subject: [mdlug] President's mail bag - Store to offer Linux
>> 	preinstalled
>> To: "mdlug at mdlug.org" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>> Message-ID: <465F9655.8010007 at ameritech.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> Mr. Hughs,
>>
>> Thank you for contacting me. I find your idea both intriguing and
>> exciting. Right now I am swamped with other pressing business, but I
>> hope to be able to provide more extensive input in the next few weeks.
>>
>> For the time being I will pass your letter on to our membership. I  
>> must
>> tell you that Computer Builders Warehouse got something of a bad
>> reputation in our group a couple of years ago. If I recall they were
>> promoting questionable MS 'facts' of some sort. I don't recall the
>> details off hand. Your project could go a long ways toward changing  
>> this.
>>
>> I hope to be able to drop by your store some time in the next few  
>> weeks.
>> Is there any chance that your store could accommodate a "mini
>> meeting" of about a dozen people? Just a thought. In the mean time I
>> suggest that you join one or more of our mailing lists to get an
>> idea of our group's inclinations. Be warned that purely commercial
>> postings are considered spam, and greatly frowned upon.
>>
>> I hope to see you soon
>> Raymond McLaughlin
>> President MDLUG
>>
>> Rich Hughes wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello Mr. McLaughlin,
>>>>
>>>> My name is Rich Hughes, I manage the Computer Builders Warehouse  
>>>> store
>>>> inside Great Lakes Crossing. I also run www.linuxtechdaily.com
>>>> <http://www.linuxtechdaily.com> and have written for other Linux
>> websites.
>>>>
>>>> I'm writing to announce to you and your group that my store in Great
>>>> Lakes Crossing has been approved for a pilot program, offering Linux
>>>> based systems. If it is successful it will expand to our other
>>>> locations. We are also considering offering preloaded laptops.  
>>>> Currently
>>>> I have an Ubuntu 7.04 system decked out with the full Compiz/Beryl  
>>>> 3D
>>>> desktop. The reaction to it has been overwhelmingly positive. It is
>>>> helping to show that Linux is ready for home use.
>>>>
>>>> The Sytem Specs are:
>>>> AMD Athlon 64 3200+
>>>> 1 GB DDR2 Memory
>>>> 80 GB SATA2 Hard Drive
>>>> 18X Dual Layer DVD Burner
>>>> MSI Nvidia 7300GT PCIe Card
>>>>
>>>> We are selling the system for $399.  We have the ability to custom  
>>>> build
>>>> any system and load any version of Linux on it, but are trying this
>>>> combo out to see how it does. I believe our non-propriatery, open
>>>> architecture systems are a perfect match for Free Software.
>>>>
>>>> Frankly, I'm asking for MDLUG's support. I think there is enormous
>>>> potential for success here. With the failure of Vista, and the  
>>>> strides
>>>> Linux is making, I think now is the time. I'd love to get your  
>>>> members
>>>> out here into the store to check out this system.
>>>>
>>>> I'm also interested in feedback in what systems people might be
>>>> interested in. Distro, system specs, etc...
>>>> If anyone wants to check out our website www.cbwstores.com
>>>> <http://www.cbwstores.com> , look at our stock and let me know what  
>>>> they
>>>> would be interested in, I'd be happy to email back a coupon. My  
>>>> email is
>>>> rhughes at cbwstores.com <mailto:rhughes at cbwstores.com> .
>>>>
>>>> I appreciate your time, I hope your group gets excited about this. I
>>>> think it is a great opportunity for the community, and for our  
>>>> stores.
>>>> Feel free to call at any time or drop me an email.
>>>>
>>>> Thank You,
>>>>
>>>> Rich Hughes
>>>> Store Manager
>>>>
>>>> Computer Builders Warehouse
>>>> Great Lakes Crossing
>>>> 4354 Baldwin Road - Ste. 708
>>>> Auburn Hills, MI 48326
>>>> Tel: (248) 334-3061
>>>> Fax: (248) 334-5373
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 07:32:17 -0400
>> From: Wolfger <wolfger at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE!
>> To: "MDLUG Main" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>> Message-ID:
>> 	<3b00b3330706010432q6a974415r469a306223debc4c at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> http://lolcode.com/home
>>
>> -- 
>> Wolfger
>> http://wolfger.wordpress.com/
>> http://1fjordaroad.wordpress.com/
>> AOL IM: wolf4coyot
>> Yahoo!Messenger: wolfgersilberbaer
>> Skype: wolfger88
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 08:41:06 -0400
>> From: Robert Adkins <radkins at impelind.com>
>> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE!
>> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>> Message-ID: <466013E2.2000208 at impelind.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> Is it wrong that I actually understand the "code"?
>>
>> Wolfger wrote:
>>> http://lolcode.com/home
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 10:35:59 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>> From: Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net>
>> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE!
>> To: MDLUG <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>> Message-ID:
>> 	<Pine.WNT.4.64.0706011034140.2540 at w2zzzp0601.amer.corp.eds.com>
>> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>>
>> Wolfger a ecrit:
>>> http://lolcode.com/home
>>
>> Well, it is more readable...
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mdlug mailing list
>> mdlug at mdlug.org
>> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>>
>> End of mdlug Digest, Vol 10, Issue 1
>> ************************************
> ------- End of Original Message -------
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 12941 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070601/ad22489e/attachment.bin>

From brian at detroitindustrial.org  Fri Jun  1 20:20:42 2007
From: brian at detroitindustrial.org (Brian Hurley)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 20:20:42 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE!
In-Reply-To: <466013E2.2000208@impelind.com>
References: <3b00b3330706010432q6a974415r469a306223debc4c@mail.gmail.com>
	<466013E2.2000208@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <200706012020.42264.brian@detroitindustrial.org>

On Friday 01 June 2007 08:41, Robert Adkins wrote:
> Is it wrong that I actually understand the "code"?

Yes.


-- 
Brian Hurley
Detroit Industrial Underground
www.detroitindustrial.org

Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out 
the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them.
--Frederick Douglass


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Fri Jun  1 23:22:47 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 23:22:47 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE!
In-Reply-To: <200706012020.42264.brian@detroitindustrial.org>
References: <3b00b3330706010432q6a974415r469a306223debc4c@mail.gmail.com>
	<466013E2.2000208@impelind.com>
	<200706012020.42264.brian@detroitindustrial.org>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706012022w10fae31di4be4e33cdf11376c@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/1/07, Brian Hurley <brian at detroitindustrial.org> wrote:
> On Friday 01 June 2007 08:41, Robert Adkins wrote:
> > Is it wrong that I actually understand the "code"?
>
> Yes.

I agree.  If everyone can read code then everyone would try to write
code.  Next thing you know some fool will try to clone Vista.
Obfuscation helps keep the n00bs out and increase the value (paycheck)
of real developers.


From tony at bemushosting.com  Sat Jun  2 00:13:25 2007
From: tony at bemushosting.com (Tony Bemus)
Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2007 00:13:25 -0400
Subject: [mdlug]  Video Capture and Editing App
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DAB@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DAB@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <1180757605.27149.8.camel@bemus-tony>

I am looking for some suggestions of a good video capture and editing
app.  I used Pinnacle Studio 8 (in my dark days of windows) and would
like some thing comparable.  I need to capture from a Firewire video
digital camera, I have all hardware needed ie. firewire card and hard
drive space.
Computer Info:
Ubuntu 7.04 Fiesty Fawn
Intel P4 2.4GHz
1280MB DDR ram
DL-DVD burner
200GB free hard drive space

Thanks
Tony



From fati at venerealinjection.com  Sat Jun  2 00:47:21 2007
From: fati at venerealinjection.com (Fati)
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 00:47:21 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Video Capture and Editing App
In-Reply-To: <1180757605.27149.8.camel@bemus-tony>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DAB@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<1180757605.27149.8.camel@bemus-tony>
Message-ID: <6f64e9540706012147p202c4528jb863ed193fe39f6@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/2/07, Tony Bemus <tony at bemushosting.com> wrote:
> I am looking for some suggestions of a good video capture and editing
> app.  I used Pinnacle Studio 8 (in my dark days of windows) and would
> like some thing comparable.  I need to capture from a Firewire video
> digital camera, I have all hardware needed ie. firewire card and hard
> drive space.
> Computer Info:
> Ubuntu 7.04 Fiesty Fawn
> Intel P4 2.4GHz
> 1280MB DDR ram
> DL-DVD burner
> 200GB free hard drive space
>
> Thanks
> Tony

Any video editing I've done has consisted of transcode, ffmpeg,
mencoder, and mpgtx.

For the more advanced GUI editing types cinerella
<http://heroinewarrior.com/cinelerra.php3> is quite nice.


-- 
Fati
"I don't know what weapons World War Three will be fought with, but
World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones."  - Albert
Einstein


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sat Jun  2 01:30:42 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 01:30:42 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Video Capture and Editing App
In-Reply-To: <1180757605.27149.8.camel@bemus-tony>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DAB@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<1180757605.27149.8.camel@bemus-tony>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706012230p1b22f954xeaa6dc87f33cd56f@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/2/07, Tony Bemus <tony at bemushosting.com> wrote:
> I am looking for some suggestions of a good video capture and editing
> app.  I used Pinnacle Studio 8 (in my dark days of windows) and would
> like some thing comparable.  I need to capture from a Firewire video
> digital camera, I have all hardware needed ie. firewire card and hard
> drive space.

I've been messing around with it a bit.  I was trying to get a Plextor
ConvertX working.  It supposedly works with MythTV but not much else
due to it's compressed video output.  I've bought a PCI card but
haven't tried it yet.  Here are some reviews and stuff I've collected.

http://liquidweather.net/howto/index.php?id=88
http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=07/03/15/0321242
http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=07/03/05/1949213
http://ubuntustudio.orghttp://ubuntustudio.org


From wolfger at gmail.com  Sat Jun  2 05:49:59 2007
From: wolfger at gmail.com (Wolfger)
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 05:49:59 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE!
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90706012022w10fae31di4be4e33cdf11376c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3b00b3330706010432q6a974415r469a306223debc4c@mail.gmail.com>
	<466013E2.2000208@impelind.com>
	<200706012020.42264.brian@detroitindustrial.org>
	<b02c40e90706012022w10fae31di4be4e33cdf11376c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3b00b3330706020249i68ca81a1wd595f0489540c734@mail.gmail.com>

There's even a book out, by O'RLY. :-D
http://icanhascheezburger.com/2007/06/01/lolcode/

-- 
Wolfger
http://wolfger.wordpress.com/
http://1fjordaroad.wordpress.com/
AOL IM: wolf4coyot
Yahoo!Messenger: wolfgersilberbaer
Skype: wolfger88


From carew at pobox.com  Sat Jun  2 09:29:24 2007
From: carew at pobox.com (Evan Carew)
Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2007 09:29:24 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] President's mail bag - Store to offer Linux preinstalled
In-Reply-To: <20070601170512.M9124@wowway.com>
References: <mailman.3.1180713601.11527.mdlug@mdlug.org>
	<20070601170512.M9124@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <466170B4.9010704@pobox.com>

I have a linux laptop from RCubed systems, one of the pioneers for
preloaded linux systems. I can't say enough about the joy of getting a
laptop out of the box that just works. Having said that, I'd wager that
even with these high end linux laptop integrators, integration of all of
the target laptop's hardware is not quite complete. In particular,
buttons don't always work, not all wifi capabilities always work,
external video options rarely work, and not all sleep modes work. So, I
would be curious as to how much integration work CBW was thinking of
putting into their laptop models.

Evan Carew

ebradley01 at wowway.com wrote:

><snip>
>
>We are also considering offering preloaded laptops. Currently
>I have an Ubuntu 7.04 system decked out with the full Compiz/Beryl 3D
>desktop. The reaction to it has been overwhelmingly positive. It is
>helping to show that Linux is ready for home use.
>
>The Sytem Specs are:
>AMD Athlon 64 3200+
>1 GB DDR2 Memory
>80 GB SATA2 Hard Drive
>18X Dual Layer DVD Burner
>MSI Nvidia 7300GT PCIe Card
>
>We are selling the system for $399.
>
></snip>
>
>This seems like a really good deal to me...at least, when taken at face-value.
> Anything other than the above specs that should be considered when pricing a
>laptop for general usage purposes? (Internet, email, multimedia playback, no
>games...)  
>
>Just looking to get everyone's opinion...
>
>
>Evan
>  
>
>


From jvartanian at gmail.com  Sat Jun  2 10:11:25 2007
From: jvartanian at gmail.com (Joseph Vartanian)
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 10:11:25 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE!
In-Reply-To: <466013E2.2000208@impelind.com>
References: <3b00b3330706010432q6a974415r469a306223debc4c@mail.gmail.com>
	<466013E2.2000208@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <dd889b430706020711p191a7ac8weae86a243cb622f1@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/1/07, Robert Adkins <radkins at impelind.com> wrote:
> Is it wrong that I actually understand the "code"?
>
> Wolfger wrote:
> > http://lolcode.com/home
> >


No, it's not wrong that you can read it.  This is actually much more
legible than some of the Perl code that people write.

-Joseph


From set at pobox.com  Sat Jun  2 21:26:12 2007
From: set at pobox.com (Paul)
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 21:26:12 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Video Capture and Editing App
In-Reply-To: <1180757605.27149.8.camel@bemus-tony>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DAB@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<1180757605.27149.8.camel@bemus-tony>
Message-ID: <20070603012612.GE5753@squish.home.loc>

Tony Bemus <tony at bemushosting.com>, on Sat Jun 02, 2007 [12:13:25 AM] said:
> I am looking for some suggestions of a good video capture and editing
> app.  I used Pinnacle Studio 8 (in my dark days of windows) and would
> like some thing comparable.  I need to capture from a Firewire video
> digital camera, I have all hardware needed ie. firewire card and hard
> drive space.
> Computer Info:
> Ubuntu 7.04 Fiesty Fawn
> Intel P4 2.4GHz
> 1280MB DDR ram
> DL-DVD burner
> 200GB free hard drive space
> 
> Thanks
> Tony

	Hi;

	I have no experience with this, but for your application, I
have heard that Kino is a good solution:

http://www.kinodv.org/

Paul
set at pobox.com


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Mon Jun  4 08:40:50 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 08:40:50 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE!
In-Reply-To: <dd889b430706020711p191a7ac8weae86a243cb622f1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DB7@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>


> From: Joseph Vartanian

> No, it's not wrong that you can read it.  This is actually much more
> legible than some of the Perl code that people write.

 The problem with Perl is that "There's more than one way to do it!" That's
a good thing in some ways, but like C++, most programmers end up using just
parts of the whole language, subsets. 

 For detailed thoughts on this, see here: http://www.faqs.org/docs/artu/ch04s02.html

 The key quote: "Some designs that are not compact have enough internal redundancy
of features that individual programmers end up carving out compact dialects
sufficient for that 80% of common tasks by choosing a working subset of the
language. Perl has this kind of pseudo-compactness, for example. Such designs have
a built-in trap; when two programmers try to communicate about a project, they may
find that differences in their working subsets are a significant barrier to
understanding and modifying the code."

 That's kept me from really working to learn Perl, despite its utility. So I asked
for this book for my birthday:

 http://www.amazon.com/Minimal-Perl-UNIX-Linux-People/dp/1932394508

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                      (313) 227-2317

     If the Bush administration can't sort New Orleans out,
               what are their chances in Iraq?

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. 


From tmorris at ugs.com  Mon Jun  4 09:06:41 2007
From: tmorris at ugs.com (Morris, Tim)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 08:06:41 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE!
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DB7@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E202E0D992@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>

That looks like a good book... I may pick one up myself. 

If you don't want to pay $45 for it, you can get it from half.com for
about $30 (used). 


--  Tim Morris - UGS PLM Software

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Ingles, Raymond
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 8:41 AM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE!


> From: Joseph Vartanian

> No, it's not wrong that you can read it.  This is actually much more 
> legible than some of the Perl code that people write.

 The problem with Perl is that "There's more than one way to do it!"
That's a good thing in some ways, but like C++, most programmers end up
using just parts of the whole language, subsets. 

 For detailed thoughts on this, see here:
http://www.faqs.org/docs/artu/ch04s02.html

 The key quote: "Some designs that are not compact have enough internal
redundancy of features that individual programmers end up carving out
compact dialects sufficient for that 80% of common tasks by choosing a
working subset of the language. Perl has this kind of
pseudo-compactness, for example. Such designs have a built-in trap; when
two programmers try to communicate about a project, they may find that
differences in their working subsets are a significant barrier to
understanding and modifying the code."

 That's kept me from really working to learn Perl, despite its utility.
So I asked for this book for my birthday:

 http://www.amazon.com/Minimal-Perl-UNIX-Linux-People/dp/1932394508

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                      (313) 227-2317

     If the Bush administration can't sort New Orleans out,
               what are their chances in Iraq?

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only.
It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the
named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it,
or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify
us immediately and then destroy it. 
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From tmorris at ugs.com  Mon Jun  4 09:27:12 2007
From: tmorris at ugs.com (Morris, Tim)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 08:27:12 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Fwd: President's mail bag - Store to offer
	Linuxpreinstalled
In-Reply-To: <2b422319b633d4c17beeda31dcc8fdeb@usol.com>
Message-ID: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E202E0D9C7@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>

Are these computers available online? I'd like to check them out, but I
doubt I'll get out that way anytime soon. From the original post, I
don't think so :(
 
--  Tim Morris - UGS PLM Software
 

________________________________

From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of God of Lemmings
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 2:57 PM
To: mdlug at mdlug.org
Subject: [mdlug] Fwd: President's mail bag - Store to offer
Linuxpreinstalled




Note about the current nvidia video drivers: The newer ones have a
memory leak that nvidia has been 
working on for a few months already, it appears when compositing is
enabled, and such compositing 
is required for Compiz and Beryl. You may wish to read about it at
nvidia:s forums. 



Begin forwarded message: 


	From: ebradley01 at wowway.com 
	Date: June 1, 2007 1:10:40 PM EST 
	To: mdlug at mdlug.org 
	Subject: Re: [mdlug] President's mail bag - Store to offer Linux
preinstalled 
	Reply-To: "MDLUG's Main discussion list" <mdlug at mdlug.org> 

	<snip> 

	We are also considering offering preloaded laptops. Currently 
	I have an Ubuntu 7.04 system decked out with the full
Compiz/Beryl 3D 
	desktop. The reaction to it has been overwhelmingly positive. It
is 
	helping to show that Linux is ready for home use. 

	The Sytem Specs are: 
	AMD Athlon 64 3200+ 
	1 GB DDR2 Memory 
	80 GB SATA2 Hard Drive 
	18X Dual Layer DVD Burner 
	MSI Nvidia 7300GT PCIe Card 

	We are selling the system for $399. 

	</snip> 

	This seems like a really good deal to me...at least, when taken
at face-value. 
	Anything other than the above specs that should be considered
when pricing a 
	laptop for general usage purposes? (Internet, email, multimedia
playback, no 
	games...) 

	Just looking to get everyone's opinion... 


	Evan 

	-- 
	"The road of life is rocky, and you may stumble too. So while
you point your 
	finger; someone else is judging you." --Bob Marley 


	---------- Original Message ----------- 
	From: mdlug-request at mdlug.org 
	To: mdlug at mdlug.org 
	Sent: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 12:00:01 -0400 
	Subject: mdlug Digest, Vol 10, Issue 1 


		Send mdlug mailing list submissions to 
		mdlug at mdlug.org 

		To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web,
visit 
		http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug 
		or, via email, send a message with subject or body
'help' to 
		mdlug-request at mdlug.org 

		You can reach the person managing the list at 
		mdlug-owner at mdlug.org 

		When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is
more specific 
		than "Re: Contents of mdlug digest..." 

		Today's Topics: 

		1. Converting DVDs to play on a Palm (Ingles, Raymond) 
		2. President's mail bag - Store to offer Linux
preinstalled 
		(Raymond McLaughlin) 
		3. Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE! (Wolfger) 
		4. Re: Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE! (Robert
Adkins) 
		5. Re: Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE! (Michael
Corral) 

	
---------------------------------------------------------------------- 

		Message: 1 
		Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 18:03:18 -0400 
		From: "Ingles, Raymond" <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> 
		Subject: [mdlug] Converting DVDs to play on a Palm 
		To: "Mdlug (E-mail)" <mdlug at mdlug.org> 
		Message-ID: 
	
<41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DAB at nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>

		Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" 

		I got a spare 512MB SD card and decided to try this out,
since I'd 
		heard of people doing it. So, I did some googling and
put together a 
		script or two to handle this. 

		Basically, you use "mencoder" to read the DVD and
convert it to 
		DIVX format, scaling the video to fit the 320x320
screen. I also 
		compress the audio to 128Kbit MP3 format, since I don't
need a Dolby 
		soundtrack. :-> I've had very good results with a
224Mbit/sec video 
		rate. It looks quite good on the screen, better than VHS
(certainly 
		richer color). 

		Last night I converted the movie "Aliens". It's a
154-minute movie 
		in 16x9 format. It converted down to a 320x180 image,
and takes up 
		403MB on the card. That took approximately an hour and
twenty 
		minutes on my dual-2GHz Athlon system. (If I used
one-pass encoding 
		it would have been about half that.) 

		I let the movie run all the way through (two hours and
34 minutes) 
		today as the Treo 650 sat on my desk as I worked (with
the sound 
		muted) and my battery went from 99% to 77%. Not bad. 

		It's a toy, sure, but might be fun on a long trip. I
could fit five 
		or six half-hour TV shows on my card easily. Anyway, if
anyone's 
		interested, the script I use is below. 

		Sincerely, 

		Ray Ingles (313) 227-2317 

		"Computers let you make more mistakes faster than any
other 
		invention in human history, with the possible exception
of 
		handguns and tequila." - Mitch Radcliffe 

		---begin dvd2palm.sh--- 
		#!/bin/sh 

		# Converts DVDs to AVI files suitable for viewing on a
Palm w/TCPMP 

		# If you're skipping frames, increase FPS. If
duplicating, decrease FPS. 
		# Usual values are 24000/1001 (23.976), 24, 25 (PAL),
30000/1001 (29.97), 30. 
		FPS=24000/1001 

		# My Palm has a 320x320 screen. If you have a 480x320
screen, try "480" here. 
		SCALEW=320 

		# Set audio mode - these are arranged in decreasing
order of likelyhood 
		# to sync properly 

		# Full AC3 audio, takes up a fair amount of space. 
		#AUDIO=copy 
		# Constant bit rate MP3, the 'br' field sets the bit
rate 
		AUDIO="mp3lame -lameopts cbr:br=128" 
		# Average bit rate MP3, the 'br' field sets the bit rate

		#AUDIO="mp3lame -lameopts abr:br=128" 
		# Variable bit rate MP3, sometimes has sync problems 
		#AUDIO="mp3lame -lameopts vbr=3" 

		# Set crop, if needed 
		# Get these numbers by running the command: mplayer -ss
60 -vf 

	scale=320:-2,cropdetect dvd://[track number] 

		#CROP=",crop=320:160:0:28" 

		# For mixed progressive/telecined content 
		#PULLUP=",pullup,softskip" 

		# Set video bit rate, feel free to experiment here to
see what fits 
		VBITRATE=224 
		#VBITRATE=336 
		#VBITRATE=448 

		# Use DIVX 
		DIVX="-ffourcc divx" 

		# These are the key parameters we gotta have from the
user. 
		# Spaces in the output file name are probably not a good
idea. 
		DVDTITLE=$1 
		NEWNAME=$2.avi 

		# These are optional parameters that can be tweaked but
have default values. 
		# You might want to change the default to match your
system. 
		DVDDEV=${3:-"/dev/dvd"} 
		# 128 is the default audio track on a DVD, usually 
		AUDIOTRACK=${4:-128} 

		# Make sure we got the minimum info needed. 
		if [ -z "${DVDTITLE}" -o -z "$2" ]; then 
		echo "Usage: " $0 " dvd-title output-name [dvd-device]
[audio- 
		track]" exit -1 fi 

		# Just in case one's left over from a previous encoding
run. 
		rm -rf divx2pass.log 

		# Two-pass encoding, takes longer but produces best
quality for a given bitrate 
		mencoder -dvd-device ${DVDDEV} dvd://${DVDTITLE} -aid
${AUDIOTRACK} - 
		ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg4:vpass=1:vbi
trate=${VBITRATE} -ofps 
		${FPS} ${DIVX} -oac ${AUDIO} -vf
scale=${SCALEW}:-2${CROP}${PULLUP} - 
		o /dev/null 

		mencoder -dvd-device ${DVDDEV} dvd://${DVDTITLE} -aid
${AUDIOTRACK} - 
		ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg4:vpass=2:vbi
trate=${VBITRATE} -ofps 
		${FPS} ${DIVX} -oac ${AUDIO} -vf
scale=${SCALEW}:-2${CROP}${PULLUP} - 
		o ${NEWNAME} 

		# Clean up after ourselves. 
		rm -rf divx2pass.log 
		----end dvd2palm.sh---- 

		The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named
addressee 
		only. It contains information that may be confidential.
Unless you 
		are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you
may not copy 
		or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you
received it in 
		error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. 

		------------------------------ 

		Message: 2 
		Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 23:45:25 -0400 
		From: Raymond McLaughlin <driveray at ameritech.net> 
		Subject: [mdlug] President's mail bag - Store to offer
Linux 
		preinstalled 
		To: "mdlug at mdlug.org" <mdlug at mdlug.org> 
		Message-ID: <465F9655.8010007 at ameritech.net> 
		Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 

		Mr. Hughs, 

		Thank you for contacting me. I find your idea both
intriguing and 
		exciting. Right now I am swamped with other pressing
business, but I 
		hope to be able to provide more extensive input in the
next few weeks. 

		For the time being I will pass your letter on to our
membership. I must 
		tell you that Computer Builders Warehouse got something
of a bad 
		reputation in our group a couple of years ago. If I
recall they were 
		promoting questionable MS 'facts' of some sort. I don't
recall the 
		details off hand. Your project could go a long ways
toward changing this. 

		I hope to be able to drop by your store some time in the
next few weeks. 
		Is there any chance that your store could accommodate a
"mini 
		meeting" of about a dozen people? Just a thought. In the
mean time I 
		suggest that you join one or more of our mailing lists
to get an 
		idea of our group's inclinations. Be warned that purely
commercial 
		postings are considered spam, and greatly frowned upon. 

		I hope to see you soon 
		Raymond McLaughlin 
		President MDLUG 

		Rich Hughes wrote: 


				Hello Mr. McLaughlin, 

				My name is Rich Hughes, I manage the
Computer Builders Warehouse store 
				inside Great Lakes Crossing. I also run
www.linuxtechdaily.com 
				<http://www.linuxtechdaily.com> and have
written for other Linux 

		websites. 


				I'm writing to announce to you and your
group that my store in Great 
				Lakes Crossing has been approved for a
pilot program, offering Linux 
				based systems. If it is successful it
will expand to our other 
				locations. We are also considering
offering preloaded laptops. Currently 
				I have an Ubuntu 7.04 system decked out
with the full Compiz/Beryl 3D 
				desktop. The reaction to it has been
overwhelmingly positive. It is 
				helping to show that Linux is ready for
home use. 

				The Sytem Specs are: 
				AMD Athlon 64 3200+ 
				1 GB DDR2 Memory 
				80 GB SATA2 Hard Drive 
				18X Dual Layer DVD Burner 
				MSI Nvidia 7300GT PCIe Card 

				We are selling the system for $399. We
have the ability to custom build 
				any system and load any version of Linux
on it, but are trying this 
				combo out to see how it does. I believe
our non-propriatery, open 
				architecture systems are a perfect match
for Free Software. 

				Frankly, I'm asking for MDLUG's support.
I think there is enormous 
				potential for success here. With the
failure of Vista, and the strides 
				Linux is making, I think now is the
time. I'd love to get your members 
				out here into the store to check out
this system. 

				I'm also interested in feedback in what
systems people might be 
				interested in. Distro, system specs,
etc... 
				If anyone wants to check out our website
www.cbwstores.com 
				<http://www.cbwstores.com> , look at our
stock and let me know what they 
				would be interested in, I'd be happy to
email back a coupon. My email is 
				rhughes at cbwstores.com
<mailto:rhughes at cbwstores.com> . 

				I appreciate your time, I hope your
group gets excited about this. I 
				think it is a great opportunity for the
community, and for our stores. 
				Feel free to call at any time or drop me
an email. 

				Thank You, 

				Rich Hughes 
				Store Manager 

				Computer Builders Warehouse 
				Great Lakes Crossing 
				4354 Baldwin Road - Ste. 708 
				Auburn Hills, MI 48326 
				Tel: (248) 334-3061 
				Fax: (248) 334-5373 


		------------------------------ 

		Message: 3 
		Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 07:32:17 -0400 
		From: Wolfger <wolfger at gmail.com> 
		Subject: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE! 
		To: "MDLUG Main" <mdlug at mdlug.org> 
		Message-ID: 
	
<3b00b3330706010432q6a974415r469a306223debc4c at mail.gmail.com> 
		Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
format=flowed 

		http://lolcode.com/home 

		-- 
		Wolfger 
		http://wolfger.wordpress.com/ 
		http://1fjordaroad.wordpress.com/ 
		AOL IM: wolf4coyot 
		Yahoo!Messenger: wolfgersilberbaer 
		Skype: wolfger88 

		------------------------------ 

		Message: 4 
		Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 08:41:06 -0400 
		From: Robert Adkins <radkins at impelind.com> 
		Subject: Re: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to
LOLCODE! 
		To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org> 
		Message-ID: <466013E2.2000208 at impelind.com> 
		Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
format=flowed 

		Is it wrong that I actually understand the "code"? 

		Wolfger wrote: 

			http://lolcode.com/home 




		------------------------------ 

		Message: 5 
		Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 10:35:59 -0400 (Eastern Daylight
Time) 
		From: Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net> 
		Subject: Re: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to
LOLCODE! 
		To: MDLUG <mdlug at mdlug.org> 
		Message-ID: 
	
<Pine.WNT.4.64.0706011034140.2540 at w2zzzp0601.amer.corp.eds.com> 
		Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII;
format=flowed 

		Wolfger a ecrit: 

			http://lolcode.com/home 


		Well, it is more readable... 

		Michael 

		------------------------------ 

		_______________________________________________ 
		mdlug mailing list 
		mdlug at mdlug.org 
		http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug 

		End of mdlug Digest, Vol 10, Issue 1 
		************************************ 

	------- End of Original Message ------- 

	_______________________________________________ 
	mdlug mailing list 
	mdlug at mdlug.org 
	http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug 


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070604/3ed19d12/attachment.html>

From cvweiss at gmail.com  Mon Jun  4 09:31:59 2007
From: cvweiss at gmail.com (Clinton V. Weiss)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 09:31:59 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Converting DVDs to play on a Palm
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DAB@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DAB@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <f0e9fe590706040631j7fc15c45o8f38495bbf463186@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you!

-- 
Clinton V. Weiss
cvweiss at gmail.com


From cvweiss at gmail.com  Mon Jun  4 09:41:01 2007
From: cvweiss at gmail.com (Clinton V. Weiss)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 09:41:01 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] President's mail bag - Store to offer Linux preinstalled
In-Reply-To: <20070601170512.M9124@wowway.com>
References: <mailman.3.1180713601.11527.mdlug@mdlug.org>
	<20070601170512.M9124@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <f0e9fe590706040641q2d5e5236o2a4dbf5ce083b03d@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/1/07, ebradley01 at wowway.com <ebradley01 at wowway.com> wrote:
> <snip>
>
> We are also considering offering preloaded laptops. Currently
> I have an Ubuntu 7.04 system decked out with the full Compiz/Beryl 3D
> desktop. The reaction to it has been overwhelmingly positive. It is
> helping to show that Linux is ready for home use.
>
> The Sytem Specs are:
> AMD Athlon 64 3200+
> 1 GB DDR2 Memory
> 80 GB SATA2 Hard Drive
> 18X Dual Layer DVD Burner
> MSI Nvidia 7300GT PCIe Card
>
> We are selling the system for $399.
>
> </snip>
>
> This seems like a really good deal to me...at least, when taken at face-value.
>  Anything other than the above specs that should be considered when pricing a
> laptop for general usage purposes? (Internet, email, multimedia playback, no
> games...)
>
> Just looking to get everyone's opinion...
>
>
> Evan
>

This sounds way to good to be true.  Has anyone confirmed that this is
actually a laptop?  If it is, what size/resolution is the screen?

-- 
Clinton V. Weiss
cvweiss at gmail.com


From micorral at comcast.net  Mon Jun  4 09:49:22 2007
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 09:49:22 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Subject: [mdlug] President's mail bag - Store to offer Linux preinstalled
Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.4.64.0706040944500.3368@w2zzzp0601.amer.corp.eds.com>

Clinton V. Weiss a ecrit:
>> AMD Athlon 64 3200+
>> 1 GB DDR2 Memory
>> 80 GB SATA2 Hard Drive
>> 18X Dual Layer DVD Burner
>> MSI Nvidia 7300GT PCIe Card
>
> Has anyone confirmed that this is actually a laptop?

Let's see...an OEM PCIe video *card*...
It's not too hard to figure out. ;)

Michael


From cvweiss at gmail.com  Mon Jun  4 10:01:52 2007
From: cvweiss at gmail.com (Clinton V. Weiss)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 10:01:52 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] President's mail bag - Store to offer Linux preinstalled
In-Reply-To: <Pine.WNT.4.64.0706040944500.3368@w2zzzp0601.amer.corp.eds.com>
References: <Pine.WNT.4.64.0706040944500.3368@w2zzzp0601.amer.corp.eds.com>
Message-ID: <f0e9fe590706040701q3a8505d9t6349bd40d5f9273a@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/4/07, Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net> wrote:
> Let's see...an OEM PCIe video *card*...
> It's not too hard to figure out. ;)
>
> Michael

Hrm.. yeah.. duh on my part.. Guess I'm actually paying more attention
to my work today

-- 
Clinton V. Weiss
cvweiss at gmail.com


From wolfger at gmail.com  Mon Jun  4 10:49:49 2007
From: wolfger at gmail.com (Wolfger)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 10:49:49 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE!
In-Reply-To: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E202E0D992@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DB7@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E202E0D992@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
Message-ID: <3b00b3330706040749g18140733w4771af9d6478cdaa@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/4/07, Morris, Tim <tmorris at ugs.com> wrote:
> That looks like a good book... I may pick one up myself.
>
> If you don't want to pay $45 for it, you can get it from half.com for
> about $30 (used).

Did you follow the Amazon link provided? It's $29.67 brand new.
Seriously... used book dealers need to learn to compete with Amazon
better than that.

-- 
Wolfger
http://wolfger.wordpress.com/
http://1fjordaroad.wordpress.com/
AOL IM: wolf4coyot
Yahoo!Messenger: wolfgersilberbaer
Skype: wolfger88


From mdlug at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jun  4 11:52:34 2007
From: mdlug at sbcglobal.net (Dean Durant)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 08:52:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] network appliance cracked?
Message-ID: <548134.42048.qm@web81808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello, has anyone ever heard of a network appliance being cracked?   If root is not able to do rootly things, that's a very bad sign, right?   And yet, it is only one of three network appliances that is mounted on a solaris server, which appears to be fine.   Thanks in advance for any help anyone can offer.     

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070604/f03571b8/attachment.html>

From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Mon Jun  4 12:30:34 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 12:30:34 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Converting DVDs to play on a Palm
In-Reply-To: <f0e9fe590706040631j7fc15c45o8f38495bbf463186@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DBA@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>


> From: Clinton V. Weiss

> Thank you!

 BTW, the best free media player I've found for Palms is "The Core
Pocket Media Player" (TCPMP):

 http://picard.exceed.hu/tcpmp/test/

 Also, a bit of tweaking with that script would generate files suitable
for other purposes, like backing up a movie to CD. (For backing up to DVD,
I've had plenty of success with "k9copy". It can recode a movie on a 9GB
DVD so that it fits on a 4.7GB one, and usually the extra compression is
unnoticeable.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                                  (313) 227-2317

 "...apparently, the Department of Homeland Security has absolutely no plan
 for dealing with devastation on this scale, which is supposedly the thing
              we've all been worried about for four years."
                  - Tom Tomorrow, on hurricane Katrina

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. 


From fati at venerealinjection.com  Mon Jun  4 13:07:02 2007
From: fati at venerealinjection.com (Fati)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 13:07:02 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] network appliance cracked?
In-Reply-To: <548134.42048.qm@web81808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <548134.42048.qm@web81808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6f64e9540706041007g315a3131i5f20af6ae5178901@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/4/07, Dean Durant <mdlug at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Hello, has anyone ever heard of a network appliance being cracked?

Anything that has been on a network I'm sure has been cracked at one
point or another, besides maybe qmail ;)

> is not able to do rootly things, that's a very bad sign, right?   And yet,
> it is only one of three network appliances that is mounted on a solaris
> server, which appears to be fine.   Thanks in advance for any help anyone
> can offer.

I don't understand completely, is this some kind of an NFS appliance?
What is a "rootly thing" to do?

-- 
Fati
"I don't know what weapons World War Three will be fought with, but
World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones."  - Albert
Einstein


From tmorris at ugs.com  Mon Jun  4 13:23:45 2007
From: tmorris at ugs.com (Morris, Tim)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 12:23:45 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE!
In-Reply-To: <3b00b3330706040749g18140733w4771af9d6478cdaa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E202E91F45@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>

The amazon page didn't load the first time I clicked. I looked it up on
barnesandnoble.com. $30 at amazon\borders is better than used, for
sure... I wonder if Borders has it in the store for $30? Doubt it.

--  Tim Morris - UGS PLM Software

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Wolfger
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 10:50 AM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE!

On 6/4/07, Morris, Tim <tmorris at ugs.com> wrote:
> That looks like a good book... I may pick one up myself.
>
> If you don't want to pay $45 for it, you can get it from half.com for 
> about $30 (used).

Did you follow the Amazon link provided? It's $29.67 brand new.
Seriously... used book dealers need to learn to compete with Amazon
better than that.

--
Wolfger
http://wolfger.wordpress.com/
http://1fjordaroad.wordpress.com/
AOL IM: wolf4coyot
Yahoo!Messenger: wolfgersilberbaer
Skype: wolfger88
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From fati at venerealinjection.com  Mon Jun  4 15:43:46 2007
From: fati at venerealinjection.com (Fati)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 15:43:46 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE!
In-Reply-To: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E202E91F45@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
References: <3b00b3330706040749g18140733w4771af9d6478cdaa@mail.gmail.com>
	<B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E202E91F45@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
Message-ID: <6f64e9540706041243i7f8dd9f6gcaf4c963bea73414@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/4/07, Morris, Tim <tmorris at ugs.com> wrote:
> The amazon page didn't load the first time I clicked. I looked it up on
> barnesandnoble.com. $30 at amazon\borders is better than used, for
> sure... I wonder if Borders has it in the store for $30? Doubt it.
>

I'd be surprised if Borders had it in the store period.

-- 
Fati
"I don't know what weapons World War Three will be fought with, but
World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones."  - Albert
Einstein


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Jun  4 21:25:09 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 21:25:09 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Xandros joins M$ "preferred Linux distro" list
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706041825g13b98fbcp3a593bbc099a4018@mail.gmail.com>

I'm going to buy it right now so I am IP compliant! (and you thought
IP was just a networking term) :P
www.tgdaily.com/content/view/32317/118/


From mathew.enders at prodigy.net  Tue Jun  5 06:55:41 2007
From: mathew.enders at prodigy.net (Mathew Enders)
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 06:55:41 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Xandros joins M$ "preferred Linux distro" list
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90706041825g13b98fbcp3a593bbc099a4018@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e90706041825g13b98fbcp3a593bbc099a4018@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1181040941.5608.29.camel@daddymobile>

On Mon, 2007-06-04 at 21:25 -0400, Jeff Hanson wrote:
> I'm going to buy it right now so I am IP compliant! (and you thought
> IP was just a networking term) :P
> www.tgdaily.com/content/view/32317/118/
> _______________________________________________

I think MS just also gave their FUD on IP infringement with this
statement:

Microsoft also addressed intellectual property rights as part of the
agreement: According to a press release, the company guarantees that
Xandros technologies ?are compliant with Microsoft's intellectual
property.?

Doesn't that statement also include all linux distrobutions since they
are basically all distributing the same thing just bundled up diffrent
and sometimes with some distro unique tools added in.



From bob at whizdomsoft.com  Tue Jun  5 07:53:57 2007
From: bob at whizdomsoft.com (Robert G. Brown)
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 11:53:57 +0000
Subject: [mdlug] Xandros joins M$ "preferred Linux distro" list
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 05 Jun 2007 06:55:41 -0400."
	<1181040941.5608.29.camel@daddymobile> 
Message-ID: <200706051153.l55BrvJc004487@groucho-dva.whizdomsoft.com>

On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 06:55:41 -0400, Mathew Enders <mathew.enders at prodigy.net> wrote:

>Doesn't that statement also include all linux distrobutions since they
>are basically all distributing the same thing just bundled up diffrent
>and sometimes with some distro unique tools added in.

Unfortunately, these things are not hashed out on the "basics". The
Microsoft approach here in interesting....

1. Use the "stick" of FUD and threats of litigation if others don't
   come to the table.
2. Use the "carrot" of cooperation and immunity from litigation as
   the benefit of coming to terms.
3. Insert compatibility tools to expand the reach of an "embrace and
   extend" approach.

The first action drives off potential Linux customers and deprives
Linux distributors of what some may term "the high ground".

The second motivates many distributors to gain legitimacy and acceptance
in he broader market.

The third, probably the most dangerous, will create a fault line between
those who come  to agreements with MS, and those who don't.

							Regards,
							---> RGB <---


From bobdion at starline-ent.com  Tue Jun  5 09:37:38 2007
From: bobdion at starline-ent.com (bob dion)
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 09:37:38 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Xandros joins M$ "preferred Linux distro" list
In-Reply-To: <200706051153.l55BrvJc004487@groucho-dva.whizdomsoft.com>
References: <200706051153.l55BrvJc004487@groucho-dva.whizdomsoft.com>
Message-ID: <46656722.6080704@starline-ent.com>

Robert G. Brown wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 06:55:41 -0400, Mathew Enders <mathew.enders at prodigy.net> wrote:
> 
>> Doesn't that statement also include all linux distrobutions since they
>> are basically all distributing the same thing just bundled up diffrent
>> and sometimes with some distro unique tools added in.
> 
> Unfortunately, these things are not hashed out on the "basics". The
> Microsoft approach here in interesting....
> 
> 1. Use the "stick" of FUD and threats of litigation if others don't
>    come to the table.
> 2. Use the "carrot" of cooperation and immunity from litigation as
>    the benefit of coming to terms.
> 3. Insert compatibility tools to expand the reach of an "embrace and
>    extend" approach.
> 
> The first action drives off potential Linux customers and deprives
> Linux distributors of what some may term "the high ground".
> 
> The second motivates many distributors to gain legitimacy and acceptance
> in he broader market.
> 
> The third, probably the most dangerous, will create a fault line between
> those who come  to agreements with MS, and those who don't.
> 

So Microsoft it-self has become a cancer.

BD


From rherrell at twmi.rr.com  Tue Jun  5 13:43:52 2007
From: rherrell at twmi.rr.com (Richard Herrell)
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 13:43:52 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Association for Women in Computing Job Fair - PreReg
 Required - Sat Jun 9 - 9:00AM-3:00PM - UM Dearborn
Message-ID: <4665A0D8.7050802@twmi.rr.com>

Association for Women in Computing Job Fair 
Attendance is free for job seekers!

Open to all.     Pre-registration required.     Resumes required.

Career in transition? Just starting out? Looking for a new job? 

Come to the AWC Job Fair to be held at the University of Michigan -
Dearborn June 9th.. Pre-registration is required, along with a copy of
your resume. Career Development workshops will be available throughout
the day. You can register for the workshops on the day of the event, so
get there early!

JOB FAIR GOALS

Further the professional development and advancement of women in
technology
Promote communication among women in technology
Promote the education of women of all ages in technology
The AWC Job Fair is open to professional men and women in any career
path, at all career levels, from entry to executive level.
 
Job Fair
 Schedule
 Sponsors
 
When:
June 9, 2007 9 AM - 3 PM

Where:
University of Michigan - Dearborn - University Center (click here for
map) - Kochoff Hall (UC on the map) - 4901 Evergreen, Dearborn MI 48128

Contact:
Contact: Kathleen Salai
Email: jobs-vp at awc-aa.org

 
9:00 AM - 10:00 AM 
Employer set up
First Breakout Session 

Karen White
Robert Half Technologies

IT Compensation Trends in 2007 
What can organizations expect when hiring IT professionals? What are
realistic compensation and benefits expectations? What job titles saw
the highest increases over last year? What skills do the most highly
sought after IT professionals possess? This presentation offers answers
to these questions along with other helpful tips.

10:00 AM - 2:00 PM
Employer/Attendee
Networking


2:00 PM - 3:00 PM
Employer break down
Second Breakout Session

Mary Ellen Dolan 
Dolan and Associates, LLC 

Interviewing Skills
Getting the interview is an initial step in the hiring process, but
being successful in that interview is most critical to being selected.
Therefore, we will explore some interview techniques from creating the
right first impression to asking for the next step in the selection
process. 




From wolfger at gmail.com  Tue Jun  5 17:09:40 2007
From: wolfger at gmail.com (Wolfger)
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 17:09:40 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Xandros joins M$ "preferred Linux distro" list
In-Reply-To: <46656722.6080704@starline-ent.com>
References: <200706051153.l55BrvJc004487@groucho-dva.whizdomsoft.com>
	<46656722.6080704@starline-ent.com>
Message-ID: <3b00b3330706051409m13d7c08amc10d09483ee6e40b@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/5/07, bob dion <bobdion at starline-ent.com> wrote:
>
> So Microsoft it-self has become a cancer.

What do you mean "has become"? I'd just say "is". Has been for a while.

-- 
Wolfger
http://wolfger.wordpress.com/
http://1fjordaroad.wordpress.com/
AOL IM: wolf4coyot
Yahoo!Messenger: wolfgersilberbaer
Skype: wolfger88


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Tue Jun  5 21:24:02 2007
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 21:24:02 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Xandros joins M$ "preferred Linux distro" list
In-Reply-To: <3b00b3330706051409m13d7c08amc10d09483ee6e40b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200706051153.l55BrvJc004487@groucho-dva.whizdomsoft.com>
	<46656722.6080704@starline-ent.com>
	<3b00b3330706051409m13d7c08amc10d09483ee6e40b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380706051824o4e13b771i6e99723ef573fb7@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/5/07, Wolfger wrote:

> On 6/5/07, bob dion wrote:
> > So Microsoft itself has become a cancer.
> What do you mean "has become"? I'd just say "is". Has been for a while.

Ever since BillG dumpster-dived DEC source code to create Altair
BASIC-- so since FOREVER.

-- Mikey


From micorral at comcast.net  Tue Jun  5 21:31:47 2007
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 21:31:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Xandros joins M$ "preferred Linux distro" list
In-Reply-To: <3b00b3330706051409m13d7c08amc10d09483ee6e40b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200706051153.l55BrvJc004487@groucho-dva.whizdomsoft.com>
	<46656722.6080704@starline-ent.com>
	<3b00b3330706051409m13d7c08amc10d09483ee6e40b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.0.99.0706052130150.2107@banana.sluggo.net>

2007-06-05, Monsieur Wolfger a ecrit:
> On 6/5/07, bob dion <bobdion at starline-ent.com> wrote:
>> So Microsoft it-self has become a cancer.
> What do you mean "has become"? I'd just say "is". Has been for a while.

Me, I'm still trying to figure out the hidden meaning of the hyphen
in "it-self"...

Michael


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Wed Jun  6 01:26:12 2007
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 01:26:12 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Linux in schools (from Canada)
Message-ID: <b67fb0380706052226w7156898arf68757b4b53290dc@mail.gmail.com>

I thought I'd share this wonderful Linux-in-schools story from
Kamloops BC, via Marcel Gagn?'s WFTL-LUG list:

http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=07/05/25/1536219

-- Mikey


From driveray at ameritech.net  Wed Jun  6 05:52:44 2007
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 05:52:44 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] O.T. Another Vista horror story
Message-ID: <466683EC.1000803@ameritech.net>

I came across this haven't finished it yet but had to share.
A professional writer is suddenly forced to use a Vista machine.
Warning *much* strong language. (Misnomer that, really. Often indicative
of a weak vocabulary.)

<http://www.johnringo.com/Abyss/OMFG.pdf>


From wolfger at gmail.com  Wed Jun  6 08:25:30 2007
From: wolfger at gmail.com (Wolfger)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 08:25:30 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] ah... much better!
Message-ID: <3b00b3330706060525y4ef043cfk6bd9530196e789b1@mail.gmail.com>

Have you ever been annoyed by the KDE popup box announcing a crash?
Well, things are looking to get much better (looking) with KDE4!
http://fbsd.za.net/2007/06/04/kde4-crashes-applications-beautifully/

-- 
Wolfger
http://wolfger.wordpress.com/
http://1fjordaroad.wordpress.com/
AOL IM: wolf4coyot
Yahoo!Messenger: wolfgersilberbaer
Skype: wolfger88


From radkins at impelind.com  Wed Jun  6 08:30:09 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 08:30:09 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] O.T. Another Vista horror story
In-Reply-To: <466683EC.1000803@ameritech.net>
References: <466683EC.1000803@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <4666A8D1.3090305@impelind.com>

    Computer frustrations do tend to take the most educated and 
otherwise well together people and convert them into raving expletive 
spewing blithering dunderheads...

    With that said, this guy was really getting hammered by those 
Digital Restrictions Management crap.

    I do my best to avoid that by purchasing physical CDs and then 
ripping to MP3 or another format and intend to always do so. (Hopefully, 
that won't change anytime soon...)

    -Rob

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> I came across this haven't finished it yet but had to share.
> A professional writer is suddenly forced to use a Vista machine.
> Warning *much* strong language. (Misnomer that, really. Often indicative
> of a weak vocabulary.)
>
> <http://www.johnringo.com/Abyss/OMFG.pdf>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>   


From bobdion at starline-ent.com  Wed Jun  6 10:27:40 2007
From: bobdion at starline-ent.com (Bob Dion)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 10:27:40 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT - no good deed unpunished
Message-ID: <4666C45C.3030103@starline-ent.com>

More evidence that working with MS is dangerous.


http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/06/05/microsoft_mvp_threats/

BD



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Wed Jun  6 10:30:30 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 10:30:30 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] O.T. Another Vista horror story
In-Reply-To: <466683EC.1000803@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DC2@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>


> From: Raymond McLaughlin


> Warning *much* strong language. (Misnomer that, really. Often 
> indicative of a weak vocabulary.)

 "Profanity is the last refuge of inarticulate mother$&@*ers." :->

> <http://www.johnringo.com/Abyss/OMFG.pdf>

 I picked my specific .sig because it's so appropriate to this case:

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                             (313) 227-2317

 "Trying to make bits uncopyable is like trying to make water not wet.
  The sooner people accept this, and build business models that take
  this into account, the sooner people will start making money again."
                          - Bruce Schneier

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. 


From cvweiss at gmail.com  Wed Jun  6 10:34:57 2007
From: cvweiss at gmail.com (Clinton V. Weiss)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 10:34:57 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] O.T. Another Vista horror story
In-Reply-To: <466683EC.1000803@ameritech.net>
References: <466683EC.1000803@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <f0e9fe590706060734m1d956767i70dbd18f4b2818a2@mail.gmail.com>

I've always ripped my music from my CD's I purchase or just downloaded
them from a p2p (and eventually bought the CD).  Or lately I just
listen to a lot of internet radio.  I have *never* bought my music
online.  Because of this behavior, I never truly understood what
people have against DRM, as it has never directly affected me.

After reading this I am very grateful for not buying into DRM'ed
music, and even more grateful that it hasn't affected me.  What a
*expletive* pain in the *expletive* it is just to transfer your own
*expletive* files from one *expletive* computer to another *expletive*
computer.  Of course, the expletives are out of respect for the author
and the hassle he is enduring.  What's sad, is he isn't done yet.
He'll have more computers in the future, and unless he re-purchases
all of his music, he must go through all of this again.

Here's to finally understanding the pain that DRM is, and hoping to
never have to deal with it myself *raises coffee*


-- 
Clinton V. Weiss
cvweiss at gmail.com


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Wed Jun  6 10:36:49 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 10:36:49 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] O.T. Another Vista horror story
In-Reply-To: <f0e9fe590706060734m1d956767i70dbd18f4b2818a2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DC3@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>


> From: Clinton V. Weiss

> Here's to finally understanding the pain that DRM is, and hoping to
> never have to deal with it myself *raises coffee*

 One more apropos .sig quote:

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                           (313) 227-2317

 "DRM 'manages access' in the same way that jail 'manages freedom.'"
                         - Mr. Chaotica

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. 


From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Wed Jun  6 11:25:43 2007
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 11:25:43 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT - no good deed unpunished
In-Reply-To: <4666C45C.3030103@starline-ent.com>
Message-ID: <C28C4A37.3894A%GregWojtak@quickenloans.com>

Well, 1600 has come and gone in the UK.  I wonder what the outcome was?


On 6/6/07 10:27 AM, "Bob Dion" <bobdion at starline-ent.com> wrote:

> More evidence that working with MS is dangerous.
> 
> 
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/06/05/microsoft_mvp_threats/
> 
> BD
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Wed Jun  6 11:29:36 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 11:29:36 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT - no good deed unpunished
In-Reply-To: <4666C45C.3030103@starline-ent.com>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DC6@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>


> From: Bob Dion

> More evidence that working with MS is dangerous.
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/06/05/microsoft_mvp_threats/

 When Windows was getting started, they were handing out developer tools
like candy. That's one of the reasons OS/2 tanked - the developer tools
cost many hundreds of dollars because IBM was used to charging mainframe
prices - which you can do when you have people locked in. MS needed to
build support for Windows so they made it very easy and inexpensive to
develop for. They recognized that encouraging more applications for their
platform would make it more attractive to people shopping for operating
systems.

 Of course, now Windows is a huge market with a lot of lock-in. So now
they want to be able to 'leverage' that to extract money from developers.
So they are 'monetizing' their development tools. And so things happen
like the above.

 It's not surprising, but it's just as big a mistake as IBM made. Linux
is taking off and from what I've seen almost every budding programmer
has at least *some* Linux experience. I think MS is going for a short-term
profit and screwing themselves out of long-term platform viability.

 (Of course, given the state of Vista, many of the managers at MS may
have seen the writing on the wall there and are just working to boost
their numbers while they can...)

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                                 (313) 227-2317

 "In an illustrative recent study, subjects were asked their opinion about
  a social welfare policy, which was described as being endorsed either by
   Democrats or by Republicans. Although the subjects sincerely believed
   that their responses were based on the objective merits of the policy,
   the major determinant of what they thought of the policy was in fact
  whether or not their favored political party was said to endorse it."
                - Paul Bloom and Deena Skolnick Weisberg

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. 


From micorral at comcast.net  Wed Jun  6 11:41:50 2007
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 11:41:50 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Subject: [mdlug] OT - no good deed unpunished
Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.4.64.0706061135330.796@w2zzzp0601.amer.corp.eds.com>

Bob Dion a ecrit:
> More evidence that working with MS is dangerous.
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/06/05/microsoft_mvp_threats/

s/dangerous/stupid/

Hopefully that guy has learned a lesson from this. I actually
don't feel too sorry for him, since he's developing a
closed-source product for a proprietary application from an
evil corporation. He got what he deserved, IMO.

Michael


From unforgiven24 at gmail.com  Wed Jun  6 11:51:40 2007
From: unforgiven24 at gmail.com (Mike Ward)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 11:51:40 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] ah... much better!
In-Reply-To: <3b00b3330706060525y4ef043cfk6bd9530196e789b1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3b00b3330706060525y4ef043cfk6bd9530196e789b1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5aa434200706060851y6c6bf6b4v3b386e925d9ed518@mail.gmail.com>

I refuse to run bloaty eye candy so my apps look neater when they
crash. It's not common anyway.

But with that disclaimer, that is kind of cool :)

- Mike


On 6/6/07, Wolfger <wolfger at gmail.com> wrote:
> Have you ever been annoyed by the KDE popup box announcing a crash?
> Well, things are looking to get much better (looking) with KDE4!
> http://fbsd.za.net/2007/06/04/kde4-crashes-applications-beautifully/
>
> --
> Wolfger
> http://wolfger.wordpress.com/
> http://1fjordaroad.wordpress.com/
> AOL IM: wolf4coyot
> Yahoo!Messenger: wolfgersilberbaer
> Skype: wolfger88
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Wed Jun  6 11:53:58 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 11:53:58 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] ISA modems, NIC
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33D9C@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DC7@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Ingles, Raymond

 I can't make the meeting, but if someone wants to come to Farmington Hills
to pick them up, they're available.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                                     (313) 227-2317

 "There is no distinction in nature between microevolution and macroevolution.
 Macroevolution is just larger quantities of microevolution over much longer
 times. It's like saying that there's 'microwalking' which is what I do from
 the car park to the office every morning, and down to the shops on weekends,
 and that can result in changes of my location over time on a small scale; but
 the idea that people, over tens of thousands of years walked out of central
 Africa into Europe, then over to Asia, across to North America and into South
 America - that's 'macrowalking' and it's impossible. God must have put them
                        there." - Anthony Steele

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. 


From tesral at comcast.net  Wed Jun  6 12:08:54 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 12:08:54 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Linux in schools (from Canada)
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380706052226w7156898arf68757b4b53290dc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380706052226w7156898arf68757b4b53290dc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4666DC16.4020906@comcast.net>

Michael Rudas wrote:
> I thought I'd share this wonderful Linux-in-schools story from
> Kamloops BC, via Marcel Gagn?'s WFTL-LUG list:
>
>   
That looks like the way to do that.

BTW, do we have an agenda for Saturday?


-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From z_mikowski at yahoo.com  Wed Jun  6 13:26:02 2007
From: z_mikowski at yahoo.com (Michael S. Mikowski)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 10:26:02 -0700
Subject: [mdlug] ah... much better!
In-Reply-To: <3b00b3330706060525y4ef043cfk6bd9530196e789b1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3b00b3330706060525y4ef043cfk6bd9530196e789b1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200706061026.02432.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>

On Wednesday 06 June 2007, Wolfger wrote:
> Have you ever been annoyed by the KDE popup box announcing a crash?
> Well, things are looking to get much better (looking) with KDE4!
> http://fbsd.za.net/2007/06/04/kde4-crashes-applications-beautifully/

Take a look at the kwin stuff for kde4.

http://dot.kde.org/1180541665/

This looks awesome!

-- 
Mike
www.dynaorg.com


From driveray at ameritech.net  Wed Jun  6 13:47:10 2007
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 13:47:10 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] O.T. Another Vista horror story
In-Reply-To: <f0e9fe590706060734m1d956767i70dbd18f4b2818a2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <466683EC.1000803@ameritech.net>
	<f0e9fe590706060734m1d956767i70dbd18f4b2818a2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4666F31E.6000409@ameritech.net>

Clinton V. Weiss wrote:

> Because of this behavior, I never truly understood what
> people have against DRM, as it has never directly affected me.

I've always understood DRM this way, "Western civilization was nice
while it lasted." My reasoning is this: one of the harbingers of modern
western civilization was the translation of the Bible into the common
tongues, particularly English. The powers that were in those days wanted
to suppress this for perfectly justified (in their own opinion) reasons.
Prior to the printing press they were able to do so, afterwards, there
were too many copies to hunt down. Had those powers been able to
instantly make all those printed Bibles unreadable they, of course,
would have. But they couldn't, and so the forces leading to mass
literacy and enlightenment began to gain momentum.

In our age, as electronic media are replacing printed media, the
mechanisms of DRM hand this very power to ill-defined authorities. Even
if you accept the enforcement of copy rights as a justification for DRM,
implementing it implies far greater trust than I have for any
authorities I can think of. It is not, in my opinion, a start down a
slippery slope, but rather a step off a sheer cliff face.

Under a DRM regime, asserting your right to read, which is supposedly
implicit in the right of free expression, devolves literally to asking
permission to read several million times per second. With one "NO"
vetoing millions of yeses.

But perhaps I exaggerate.

> After reading this I am very grateful for not buying into DRM'ed
> music, and even more grateful that it hasn't affected me.  What a
> *expletive* pain in the *expletive* it is just to transfer your own
> *expletive* files from one *expletive* computer to another *expletive*
> computer.  Of course, the expletives are out of respect for the author
> and the hassle he is enduring.  What's sad, is he isn't done yet.
> He'll have more computers in the future, and unless he re-purchases
> all of his music, he must go through all of this again.

The "final solution" to his problem that they (MS tech Cathy and he)
came up with was to burn audio CDs from his tunes (at the first
opportunity) and then rip mp3's from them. *Lots* of CDs.

> Here's to finally understanding the pain that DRM is, and hoping to
> never have to deal with it myself *raises coffee*

Here here. (Or is that hear hear?)

Raymond McLaughlin



From rborromeo at the5spot.com  Wed Jun  6 17:34:17 2007
From: rborromeo at the5spot.com (rborromeo at the5spot.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 17:34:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] ah... much better!
In-Reply-To: <200706061026.02432.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>
References: <3b00b3330706060525y4ef043cfk6bd9530196e789b1@mail.gmail.com>
	<200706061026.02432.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1720.209.124.37.20.1181165657.squirrel@209.124.37.10>

> On Wednesday 06 June 2007, Wolfger wrote:
>> Have you ever been annoyed by the KDE popup box announcing a crash?
>> Well, things are looking to get much better (looking) with KDE4!
>> http://fbsd.za.net/2007/06/04/kde4-crashes-applications-beautifully/
>
> Take a look at the kwin stuff for kde4.
>
> http://dot.kde.org/1180541665/
>
> This looks awesome!
>
> --
> Mike
> www.dynaorg.com

Face it the GUI war was over with Jaguar. The KDE stuff looks like a cheap
knock off of Expose + Quicksilver.



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Jun  6 18:36:47 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 18:36:47 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Patents on software fixes
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706061536y18357f75v9abfdb197baf046e@mail.gmail.com>

Let M$ reap the rewards of the IP mess they help create:
www.theregister.co.uk/2007/06/06/security_fix_patent/


From fativi at gmail.com  Thu Jun  7 00:30:52 2007
From: fativi at gmail.com (Brian)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 00:30:52 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] O.T. Another Vista horror story
In-Reply-To: <4666F31E.6000409@ameritech.net>
References: <466683EC.1000803@ameritech.net>
	<f0e9fe590706060734m1d956767i70dbd18f4b2818a2@mail.gmail.com>
	<4666F31E.6000409@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <6f64e9540706062130t10469d5aq5c62e68277962fa8@mail.gmail.com>

> The "final solution" to his problem that they (MS tech Cathy and he)
> came up with was to burn audio CDs from his tunes (at the first
> opportunity) and then rip mp3's from them. *Lots* of CDs.
>

Not to mention plenty of audio signal degradation :/

-- 
Fati
"It's not stupid, it's advaaanced!" - Tallest Purple


From micorral at comcast.net  Thu Jun  7 01:41:48 2007
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 01:41:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] ah... much better!
In-Reply-To: <3b00b3330706060525y4ef043cfk6bd9530196e789b1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3b00b3330706060525y4ef043cfk6bd9530196e789b1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.0.99.0706070136360.2205@banana.sluggo.net>

2007-06-06, Monsieur Wolfger a ecrit:
> Have you ever been annoyed by the KDE popup box announcing a crash?
> Well, things are looking to get much better (looking) with KDE4!
> http://fbsd.za.net/2007/06/04/kde4-crashes-applications-beautifully/

What bugs me about this is that the user's system is using Spanish
as the language, yet the KDE crash message is in English. Is KDE's
internationalization support that poor? That's not too impressive.

Michael


From fativi at gmail.com  Thu Jun  7 01:58:38 2007
From: fativi at gmail.com (Brian)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 01:58:38 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] ah... much better!
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.0.99.0706070136360.2205@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <3b00b3330706060525y4ef043cfk6bd9530196e789b1@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.0.99.0706070136360.2205@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <6f64e9540706062258h51505134yd48f3b35b1510959@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/7/07, Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net> wrote:
> 2007-06-06, Monsieur Wolfger a ecrit:
> > Have you ever been annoyed by the KDE popup box announcing a crash?
> > Well, things are looking to get much better (looking) with KDE4!
> > http://fbsd.za.net/2007/06/04/kde4-crashes-applications-beautifully/
>
> What bugs me about this is that the user's system is using Spanish
> as the language, yet the KDE crash message is in English. Is KDE's
> internationalization support that poor? That's not too impressive.
>
It's not a real screen shot of a working system, it's a gimp mock-up
of what they want to do.


-- 
Fati
"It's not stupid, it's advaaanced!" - Tallest Purple


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Thu Jun  7 07:46:40 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 07:46:40 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] ah... much better!
In-Reply-To: <1720.209.124.37.20.1181165657.squirrel@209.124.37.10>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DCB@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>


> From: rborromeo at the5spot.com

> Face it the GUI war was over with Jaguar. The KDE stuff looks 
> like a cheap knock off of Expose + Quicksilver.

 I'm minded of the Hyundai commercial where they admit that their car can't
park itself like a Lexus, but at less than half the price you can afford to
have someone park it for you.

 http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTM0OCwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzd

 "Mac OS X has some amazing capabilities, but you spend a lot of money.
Indeed, it seems the preferred method for solving Mac computer problems is
to buy your way out of it. Slow computer? Buy a new one. Want to convert a
file? Buy a utility. Want to do simple tasks? Buy a commercial program.
Peripherals don't work? Buy replacements."

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                            (313) 227-2317

 It is easier to be a "humanitarian" than to render your own country
   its proper due; it is easier to be a "patriot" than to make your
   community a better place to live in; it is easier to be a "civic
 leader" than to treat your own family with loving understanding; for
       the smaller the focus of attention, the harder the task.
                        -- Sydney J. Harris

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. 


From micorral at comcast.net  Thu Jun  7 11:37:21 2007
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 11:37:21 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Subject: [mdlug] ah... much better!
Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.4.64.0706071132180.3528@w2zzzp0601.amer.corp.eds.com>

Brian a ecrit:
>On 6/7/07, Michael Corral wrote:
>> 2007-06-06, Monsieur Wolfger a ecrit:
>>> Have you ever been annoyed by the KDE popup box announcing a crash?
>>> Well, things are looking to get much better (looking) with KDE4!
>>> http://fbsd.za.net/2007/06/04/kde4-crashes-applications-beautifully/
>>
>> What bugs me about this is that the user's system is using Spanish
>> as the language, yet the KDE crash message is in English. Is KDE's
>> internationalization support that poor? That's not too impressive.
>
> It's not a real screen shot of a working system, it's a gimp mock-up
> of what they want to do.

Well, couldn't they have mocked it up with the same language? ;)

I still think the best crash notice was from the old Macs with the
picture of a bomb. Too bad those occurred so frequently. :)

Michael


From tmorris at ugs.com  Thu Jun  7 12:09:39 2007
From: tmorris at ugs.com (Morris, Tim)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 11:09:39 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] ah... much better!
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DCB@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E202E92DB0@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>

I love this!

"If you have an iSight camera - like the MacBook did, it will ask you to
take a picture of yourself to be used as the login (and, if you use any
IM programs, your avatar). For this reason, be aware that clothing is
not optional when booting up a Mac for the first time." 


--  Tim Morris - UGS PLM Software

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Ingles, Raymond
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 7:47 AM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] ah... much better!


> From: rborromeo at the5spot.com

> Face it the GUI war was over with Jaguar. The KDE stuff looks like a 
> cheap knock off of Expose + Quicksilver.

 I'm minded of the Hyundai commercial where they admit that their car
can't park itself like a Lexus, but at less than half the price you can
afford to have someone park it for you.

 
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTM0OCwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzd

 "Mac OS X has some amazing capabilities, but you spend a lot of money.
Indeed, it seems the preferred method for solving Mac computer problems
is to buy your way out of it. Slow computer? Buy a new one. Want to
convert a file? Buy a utility. Want to do simple tasks? Buy a commercial
program.
Peripherals don't work? Buy replacements."

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                            (313) 227-2317

 It is easier to be a "humanitarian" than to render your own country
   its proper due; it is easier to be a "patriot" than to make your
   community a better place to live in; it is easier to be a "civic
leader" than to treat your own family with loving understanding; for
       the smaller the focus of attention, the harder the task.
                        -- Sydney J. Harris

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only.
It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the
named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it,
or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify
us immediately and then destroy it. 
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From millerc at cantonpl.org  Thu Jun  7 20:00:31 2007
From: millerc at cantonpl.org (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 20:00:31 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Topic for next meeting
Message-ID: <1927.216.144.215.245.1181260831.squirrel@mail.cantonpl.org>

Do we have a topic for the next meeting?

I thought it might be fun to try to set up and test a
Samba server for the school.  Mat, will you be there
and will we be able to access the file server through
ssh?  If so, you might have a working domain controller
by the end of the meeting.

c






From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Jun  7 23:57:01 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 23:57:01 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] O.T. Another Vista horror story
In-Reply-To: <466683EC.1000803@ameritech.net>
References: <466683EC.1000803@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706072057s4f0b5964k72f699f9f16e2dec@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/6/07, Raymond McLaughlin <driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
> I came across this haven't finished it yet but had to share.
> A professional writer is suddenly forced to use a Vista machine.
> Warning *much* strong language. (Misnomer that, really. Often indicative
> of a weak vocabulary.)

Its so wonderful to read about the joy that Micro$oft's technology
bestows upon computer users.  It brings tears to my eyes.


From mathew.enders at prodigy.net  Fri Jun  8 08:56:58 2007
From: mathew.enders at prodigy.net (Mathew Enders)
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 08:56:58 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Topic for next meeting
In-Reply-To: <1927.216.144.215.245.1181260831.squirrel@mail.cantonpl.org>
References: <1927.216.144.215.245.1181260831.squirrel@mail.cantonpl.org>
Message-ID: <1181307418.5608.45.camel@daddymobile>

On Thu, 2007-06-07 at 20:00 -0400, Carl T. Miller wrote:
> Do we have a topic for the next meeting?
> 
> I thought it might be fun to try to set up and test a
> Samba server for the school.  Mat, will you be there
> and will we be able to access the file server through
> ssh?  If so, you might have a working domain controller
> by the end of the meeting.

Carl In will be there and I want to do this however I do not have the
machine yet.  I will use the machiune from the mobile computing cart and
we can see if we can get it set up.  Then when I get the computer I was
going to use for the Samba server I will use it as the mobile computer.
This sounds like great Idea for a group project I will bring the Samba
documentatioin on using it as a primary domain controller.



From millerc at cantonpl.org  Fri Jun  8 09:27:03 2007
From: millerc at cantonpl.org (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 09:27:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Topic for next meeting
In-Reply-To: <1181307418.5608.45.camel@daddymobile>
References: <1927.216.144.215.245.1181260831.squirrel@mail.cantonpl.org>
	<1181307418.5608.45.camel@daddymobile>
Message-ID: <54362.66.51.146.97.1181309223.squirrel@mail.cantonpl.org>

Mathew Enders wrote:
> Carl In will be there and I want to do this however I do not have the
> machine yet.  I will use the machiune from the mobile computing cart and
> we can see if we can get it set up.  Then when I get the computer I was
> going to use for the Samba server I will use it as the mobile computer.
> This sounds like great Idea for a group project I will bring the Samba
> documentatioin on using it as a primary domain controller.

That sounds good.  We can set up the domain, create a few
user accounts, share home directories and set up one or
two common shared directories.  If we have time, we can
try to figure out how to save profiles and set users'
My Documents folders to be their home directories.

c




From otakurider at gmail.com  Fri Jun  8 09:39:47 2007
From: otakurider at gmail.com (-)
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 09:39:47 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Remote access "lights out" vis serial port.
Message-ID: <cd5131a50706080639m3442315fqcbdc3ec9b26e3e03@mail.gmail.com>

I have a group of machines that are not in a place that is easy to get to if
there is issues and the company does not want to pay for roving techs to
reboot or watch as the machines boot, or pay for KVM switches.

So question is.
Looking for some options to access my dell machines running Red Hat (multi
versions)  using the serial port.  I know Dell sells some remote management
cards but the hardware is so old that they do not have cards that will
work.

Some "like to haves" would be - Viewing boot up cycle, able to reboot
machine when nic cards are down,  X-windows over serial,  access to bios
changes.  I believe anything with low level hardware access most likely is
not possible via serial port but maybe some one has some ideas.

Thanks

VP
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070608/14c2dc47/attachment.html>

From tmorris at ugs.com  Fri Jun  8 09:48:19 2007
From: tmorris at ugs.com (Morris, Tim)
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 08:48:19 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Serial I/O Card
Message-ID: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E202F16BB4@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>

Greetings all!
 
I have been tasked with (possibly) setting up a serial console server
for a few of our Sun racks. I'm planning on building a linux-rack-pc to
use as the master system (and connecting to the Suns using picocom or
something). I was wondering if any of you have experiences with the Syba
SD-PCI-6S PCI-based 6-port serial IO card.

<http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815124025>

Any alternatives are also welcome. Currently we have a total of about 6
(V440s) per rack, but I was thinking of buying 2 cards for
expandability, or possibly 2 4-port cards. 

Any insights or suggestions are welcomed!
 
 
--------------------------------------------------
Tim Morris
Systems Engineer
Siemens Automation and Drives
UGS PLM Software


From danno at umich.edu  Fri Jun  8 10:30:52 2007
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 10:30:52 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Remote access "lights out" vis serial port.
In-Reply-To: <cd5131a50706080639m3442315fqcbdc3ec9b26e3e03@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cd5131a50706080639m3442315fqcbdc3ec9b26e3e03@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070608143052.GA64374@maniac.deathstar.org>

if you have poweredge servers most of them have the option to send
the BIOS output to the serial port.  With some of the older servers
it required a bios update.

The oldest server I'm sure has this is a 2450.  

what i typicallly do is 
 a) set this in the BIOS but tell it not to redirect after boot
 b) tell grub to use a serial console
 c) run a getty on the serial port

I also have separate power controllers so i can reboot a wedged machine.  

To do X over a serial connection you'd need to configure PPP; it makes things
more complicated but it's possible.  

On Fri, Jun 08, 2007 at 09:39:47AM -0400, - wrote:
> I have a group of machines that are not in a place that is easy to get to if
> there is issues and the company does not want to pay for roving techs to
> reboot or watch as the machines boot, or pay for KVM switches.
> 
> So question is.
> Looking for some options to access my dell machines running Red Hat (multi
> versions)  using the serial port.  I know Dell sells some remote management
> cards but the hardware is so old that they do not have cards that will
> work.
> 
> Some "like to haves" would be - Viewing boot up cycle, able to reboot
> machine when nic cards are down,  X-windows over serial,  access to bios
> changes.  I believe anything with low level hardware access most likely is
> not possible via serial port but maybe some one has some ideas.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> VP

> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From danno at umich.edu  Fri Jun  8 10:32:16 2007
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 10:32:16 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Serial I/O Card
In-Reply-To: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E202F16BB4@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
References: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E202F16BB4@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
Message-ID: <20070608143216.GB64374@maniac.deathstar.org>

They're not cheap, but i'd recommend a dedicated terminal server
like a cyclades or digi; much less hassle, much easier to set up,
needs less maintenance.  

Make sure whatever you buy is "sun break safe".  

On Fri, Jun 08, 2007 at 08:48:19AM -0500, Morris, Tim wrote:
> Greetings all!
>  
> I have been tasked with (possibly) setting up a serial console server
> for a few of our Sun racks. I'm planning on building a linux-rack-pc to
> use as the master system (and connecting to the Suns using picocom or
> something). I was wondering if any of you have experiences with the Syba
> SD-PCI-6S PCI-based 6-port serial IO card.
> 
> <http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815124025>
> 
> Any alternatives are also welcome. Currently we have a total of about 6
> (V440s) per rack, but I was thinking of buying 2 cards for
> expandability, or possibly 2 4-port cards. 
> 
> Any insights or suggestions are welcomed!
>  
>  
> --------------------------------------------------
> Tim Morris
> Systems Engineer
> Siemens Automation and Drives
> UGS PLM Software
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Fri Jun  8 16:49:40 2007
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 16:49:40 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Serial I/O Card
References: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E202F16BB4@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
	<20070608143216.GB64374@maniac.deathstar.org>
Message-ID: <002001c7aa0e$89373830$6401a8c0@AMD2000>

Tim,

You really didn't say about how many machines total you were trying to hook 
up.  But from the sounds of it, you might have a few cabinets of 6 
servers...?  I would definetly look into a Cyclades box (which run on 
Linux).  I just did a search on eBay and saw a couple of them listed for 
~$500 with at least 16 ports.

-Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dan Pritts" <danno at umich.edu>
To: "MDLUG's Main discussion list" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 10:32 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Serial I/O Card


> They're not cheap, but i'd recommend a dedicated terminal server
> like a cyclades or digi; much less hassle, much easier to set up,
> needs less maintenance.
>
> Make sure whatever you buy is "sun break safe".
>
> On Fri, Jun 08, 2007 at 08:48:19AM -0500, Morris, Tim wrote:
>> Greetings all!
>>
>> I have been tasked with (possibly) setting up a serial console server
>> for a few of our Sun racks. I'm planning on building a linux-rack-pc to
>> use as the master system (and connecting to the Suns using picocom or
>> something). I was wondering if any of you have experiences with the Syba
>> SD-PCI-6S PCI-based 6-port serial IO card.
>>
>> <http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815124025>
>>
>> Any alternatives are also welcome. Currently we have a total of about 6
>> (V440s) per rack, but I was thinking of buying 2 cards for
>> expandability, or possibly 2 4-port cards.
>>
>> Any insights or suggestions are welcomed!
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> Tim Morris
>> Systems Engineer
>> Siemens Automation and Drives
>> UGS PLM Software
>> _______________________________________________
>> mdlug mailing list
>> mdlug at mdlug.org
>> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
> danno
> --
> dan pritts
> danno at umich.edu
> 734-929-9770
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.8.11/838 - Release Date: 6/7/2007 
> 2:21 PM
>
> 



From markmont at umich.edu  Fri Jun  8 18:19:14 2007
From: markmont at umich.edu (Mark Montague)
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 18:19:14 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Linux jobs at the University of Michigan
Message-ID: <4669D5E2.4080206@umich.edu>


The University of Michigan has three jobs available in one of it's
central IT infrastructure departments.  The department has over 650
servers, nearly all of which run Linux (and the fewer-than-a-dozen that
do not are being moved to Linux as quickly as possible).


Web Applications Developer (entry-level to mid-level)
50% PHP developer, 50% DBA (MySQL and/or Oracle).
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~markmont/job1.html


Linux Developer (senior level)
C and Perl development, TCP/IP socket programming, Linux kernel support,
Kerberos, LDAP, AFS.
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~markmont/job2.html


Backup and Storage Specialist (senior level)
IBM/Tivoli TSM, large scale storage management (over 200 TB), scripting,
system administration.
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~markmont/job3.html


Feel free to forward this information to anyone else who you think may
be interested.

                 Mark Montague
                 ITCS Web/Database Production Team
                 The University of Michigan
                 markmont at umich.edu


-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: smime.p7s
Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature
Size: 4502 bytes
Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070608/3f252712/attachment.bin>

From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Fri Jun  8 20:41:00 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 20:41:00 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Remote access "lights out" vis serial port.
In-Reply-To: <cd5131a50706080639m3442315fqcbdc3ec9b26e3e03@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cd5131a50706080639m3442315fqcbdc3ec9b26e3e03@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706081741q1a5da00bm5139ec5e42568206@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/8/07, - <otakurider at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have a group of machines that are not in a place that is easy to get to if
> there is issues and the company does not want to pay for roving techs to
> reboot or watch as the machines boot, or pay for KVM switches.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-of-band_management
www.howtoforge.com/setting_up_a_serial_console


From dobwan at earthlink.net  Mon Jun 11 18:52:15 2007
From: dobwan at earthlink.net (Duane Brown)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 18:52:15 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] [Discuss] tuesday mtg with John Terpstra
In-Reply-To: <466DB177.8020509@McQuil.com>
References: <466DB177.8020509@McQuil.com>
Message-ID: <466DD21F.4090001@earthlink.net>

WAA HOO, this is exactly what my selfish little (ok not so little) self 
was hoping for.

Duane

Jim McQuillan wrote:
> I picked up John Terpstra from the airport today.  Had a very 
> interesting talk with him about what's going on within AMD and some 
> other things he's doing.
>
> For those of you who are interested in the chatter about a Linux based 
> multimedia system, you'll find Johns talk tomorrow night quite 
> interesting.
>
> He's brought with him an AMD prototype Home media center system.  This 
> thing is pretty cool.  Set top box on steroids type thing.  He'll give 
> us a demo tomorrow night.
>
> Hope to see you all there.  6:30pm, Tuesday, June 12th at the 
> Farmington community library.
>
> Jim McQuillan
> jam at Ltsp.org
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at mug.org
> http://www.mug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>



From davidl at lmert.com  Mon Jun 11 22:45:21 2007
From: davidl at lmert.com (David Lee Lambert)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 22:45:21 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Going price for LCD TV set?
Message-ID: <200706112245.24358.davidl@lmert.com>

I have a friend who is moving halfway across the country and has offered to 
sell me his LCD TV,  but I have no idea what price I ought to offer him.  I 
don't know the exact specifications,  but it looked like it's about 40" 
diagonally,  LCD,  DVD aspect-ratio,  in good condition.  I ran a quick 
search on ebay but only found a lot of "wholesale buyers guides".  What is a 
fair price for a used thin-panel TV of that size,  in reasonably good 
condition? 

-- 
David Lee Lambert ... Software Developer
Cell phone: +1 586-873-8813 ; alt. email <as4109 at wayne.edu> or 
<lamber45 at msu.edu>
GPG key at http://www.lmert.com/keyring.txt


From drew4096 at gmail.com  Mon Jun 11 22:37:25 2007
From: drew4096 at gmail.com (Drew)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 22:37:25 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Scantool report
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20070611223552.0357e520@pop.gmail.com>

     The Scantool arrived today.

     It did not need to be soldered; and it included copious quantities of
cable, though I did have to make up a nullmodem as the device I intended
to run it on was a Palm. I got it without the fancy box, saving me $15
off the price; I'm making my own box for it.

     I had already had the OBD software on the Palm, so all that was
necessary was to make up the nullmodem, hook everything together, and
plug it in to the OBD port. Soon as the ignition was turned on I got
readings, including mass air flow, ranging from 6 grams per second at
idle, to well over 100 grams per second under high boost. There were
also readings of fuel trim, usually around zero; engine RPM, air and
coolant temperature, and vehicle speed.

     The Palm app has menu options for data recording, though I've yet
to figure out exactly where it puts this recording or how to get to it.

     I even managed to clear a trouble code, something about a catalyst
inefficiency, and got the Check Engine light turned off.

     The main glitch is that the vehicle speed readout from the OBD port
doesn't agree with either the speedometer or reality. When I have the
speed set to 40 MPH (which I have already determined is actually 46 MPH),
the VSS readout says I'm going 35. I would like to find out why, and
if possible establish that the MAF sensor is telling the truth.

     As stated I did not need soldering assistance after all. But what
I would like, whenever convenient, is if someone could bring along a
laptop to run the other software on, and ride along with me to see if
it reports the same numbers that the Palm version does. I have all the
necessary cables; and of course a nullmodem would not be necessary
in this case.

----

- Drew.



From davidl at lmert.com  Mon Jun 11 22:55:47 2007
From: davidl at lmert.com (David Lee Lambert)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 22:55:47 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] network appliance cracked?
In-Reply-To: <6f64e9540706041007g315a3131i5f20af6ae5178901@mail.gmail.com>
References: <548134.42048.qm@web81808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<6f64e9540706041007g315a3131i5f20af6ae5178901@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200706112255.48719.davidl@lmert.com>

On Monday 04 June 2007 13:07, Fati wrote:
> On 6/4/07, Dean Durant <mdlug at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > Hello, has anyone ever heard of a network appliance being cracked?
>
> [...]
> I don't understand completely, is this some kind of an NFS appliance?
> What is a "rootly thing" to do?

There is a company called "Network Appliance";  I seem to remember that the 
MSU Computer Science department uses one of their products as a fileserver 
for all the research groups.  Their flagship product has been around for 12 
years or more.  It talks SMB, NFS and NCP,  and has a custom Unix-like 
filesystem on top of RAID and battery backup.  They were one of the early NAS 
vendors,  before you could buy NAS-in-a-brick.  I've never personally owned 
one :)  .

-- 
David Lee Lambert ... Software Developer
Cell phone: +1 586-873-8813 ; alt. email <as4109 at wayne.edu> or 
<lamber45 at msu.edu>
GPG key at http://www.lmert.com/keyring.txt


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Tue Jun 12 01:25:59 2007
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 01:25:59 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Going price for LCD TV set?
In-Reply-To: <200706112245.24358.davidl@lmert.com>
References: <200706112245.24358.davidl@lmert.com>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380706112225m1cca718dg261c4e09a8ede9bc@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/11/07, David Lee Lambert wrote:

> I have a friend who is moving halfway across the country and has offered to
> sell me his LCD TV,  but I have no idea what price I ought to offer him.  I
> don't know the exact specifications,  but it looked like it's about 40"
> diagonally,  LCD,  DVD aspect-ratio,  in good condition.

Important information, missing:

1. Brand & model number (most of the rest can be determined from this).
2. Actual pixel resolution.
3. Is it 4:3 or 16:9 aspect ratio?  You say "DVD"-- but that's TOTALLY
meaningless.
4. Age and hours of use on set.
5. Types and numbers of video inputs.
6. Type(s) of tuner(s).

ALL of these factors are VERY important when considering resale value.

-- Mikey


From cvweiss at gmail.com  Tue Jun 12 07:52:14 2007
From: cvweiss at gmail.com (Clinton V. Weiss)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 07:52:14 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.
Message-ID: <f0e9fe590706120452s221e52d9lac19c2be3a15801b@mail.gmail.com>

(I'm not affiliated with this company at all - I'm just truly impressed)

Interesting storage system, lets you pop in/out drives at a whim to
replace dead drives or increase storage:

http://www.drobo.com/products_demo.aspx

Does anyone know of any other self-containing alternatives that are
this efficient?  This definitely seems worthwhile, but I'm not liking
the price tag.

-- 
Clinton V. Weiss
cvweiss at gmail.com


From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Tue Jun 12 08:59:50 2007
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 08:59:50 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.
References: <f0e9fe590706120452s221e52d9lac19c2be3a15801b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c7acf1$901f88b0$6401a8c0@AMD2000>

According to Jim Shaw (marketing person doing the demo), he described it as 
the worlds first "storage robot".  Where is the mechanical arm that changes 
the drives for you?  Doesn't seem to have any "robotic" features that I 
could see.  Maybe a better description would be, "the most user-friendly 
storage device" or "most intelligent storage device".  Looks like the price 
reflects that fact too.  Pretty much a no-brainer as far as storage arrays 
go.  Very cool.

-Mike


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Clinton V. Weiss" <cvweiss at gmail.com>
To: "MDLUG's Main discussion list" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 7:52 AM
Subject: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.


> (I'm not affiliated with this company at all - I'm just truly impressed)
>
> Interesting storage system, lets you pop in/out drives at a whim to
> replace dead drives or increase storage:
>
> http://www.drobo.com/products_demo.aspx
>
> Does anyone know of any other self-containing alternatives that are
> this efficient?  This definitely seems worthwhile, but I'm not liking
> the price tag.
>
> -- 
> Clinton V. Weiss
> cvweiss at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.8.11/838 - Release Date: 6/7/2007 
> 2:21 PM
>
> 



From tmorris at ugs.com  Tue Jun 12 09:05:10 2007
From: tmorris at ugs.com (Morris, Tim)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 08:05:10 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Going price for LCD TV set?
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380706112225m1cca718dg261c4e09a8ede9bc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E202F175CA@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>

As a reference, I believe Costco has the Vizio 42" GV42L for $1100. This
is a cheaper set than most, so if your friend wants to sell you a Sony,
obviously there needs to be a price adjustment. Of course, that is the
Brand-spanking-new price, so "used" would most likely be at least half
that, if not less. Your best bet is to check the classifieds for the
area and find something comparable to what they are offering.


--  Tim Morris - UGS PLM Software

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Michael Rudas
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 1:26 AM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Going price for LCD TV set?

On 6/11/07, David Lee Lambert wrote:

> I have a friend who is moving halfway across the country and has 
> offered to sell me his LCD TV,  but I have no idea what price I ought 
> to offer him.  I don't know the exact specifications,  but it looked
like it's about 40"
> diagonally,  LCD,  DVD aspect-ratio,  in good condition.

Important information, missing:

1. Brand & model number (most of the rest can be determined from this).
2. Actual pixel resolution.
3. Is it 4:3 or 16:9 aspect ratio?  You say "DVD"-- but that's TOTALLY
meaningless.
4. Age and hours of use on set.
5. Types and numbers of video inputs.
6. Type(s) of tuner(s).

ALL of these factors are VERY important when considering resale value.

-- Mikey
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From tmorris at ugs.com  Tue Jun 12 09:57:03 2007
From: tmorris at ugs.com (Morris, Tim)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 08:57:03 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.
In-Reply-To: <000f01c7acf1$901f88b0$6401a8c0@AMD2000>
Message-ID: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E202F17658@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>

According to dictionary.com, a robot is:
1.	a machine that resembles a human and does mechanical, routine
tasks on command.
2.	a person who acts and responds in a mechanical, routine manner,
usually subject to another's will; automaton.
3.	any machine or mechanical device that operates automatically
with humanlike skill. -adjective
4.	operating automatically: a robot train operating between airline
terminals. 

The drobo does meet the 3rd and 4th definitions ;)


--  Tim Morris - UGS PLM Software

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Michael ORourke
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 9:00 AM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.

According to Jim Shaw (marketing person doing the demo), he described it
as the worlds first "storage robot".  Where is the mechanical arm that
changes the drives for you?  Doesn't seem to have any "robotic" features
that I could see.  Maybe a better description would be, "the most
user-friendly storage device" or "most intelligent storage device".
Looks like the price reflects that fact too.  Pretty much a no-brainer
as far as storage arrays go.  Very cool.

-Mike


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Clinton V. Weiss" <cvweiss at gmail.com>
To: "MDLUG's Main discussion list" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 7:52 AM
Subject: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.


> (I'm not affiliated with this company at all - I'm just truly
impressed)
>
> Interesting storage system, lets you pop in/out drives at a whim to
> replace dead drives or increase storage:
>
> http://www.drobo.com/products_demo.aspx
>
> Does anyone know of any other self-containing alternatives that are
> this efficient?  This definitely seems worthwhile, but I'm not liking
> the price tag.
>
> -- 
> Clinton V. Weiss
> cvweiss at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.8.11/838 - Release Date:
6/7/2007 
> 2:21 PM
>
> 

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From radkins at impelind.com  Tue Jun 12 10:21:14 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:21:14 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Going price for LCD TV set?
In-Reply-To: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E202F175CA@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
References: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E202F175CA@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
Message-ID: <466EABDA.7050609@impelind.com>

    Does it have HDMI capability?

    If so, as a Sony, it's likely got a decent quality HDMI processing unit.

    If it's an El-Cheapo brand from a warehouse store, it might have a 
sub-par or JUST barely adequate HDMI processor. Sure, it will work, most 
of the time...

    Then it might start missing some of those insanely stupid DRM 
Handshakes that those assha.. er uh.. sorry, slipping into rant mode...

    It might start hicupping on some of the DRM Handshakes that are 
supposed to happen every few seconds between the TV and the HD device 
you have feeding it. If that happens, you'll be looking at a wonderfully 
blank screen, which certainly "helps" you as the consumer to have the 
"rights" to watch the movie you purchased on your wholly unmodified 
personal entertainment equipment...

    -Rob

Morris, Tim wrote:
> As a reference, I believe Costco has the Vizio 42" GV42L for $1100. This
> is a cheaper set than most, so if your friend wants to sell you a Sony,
> obviously there needs to be a price adjustment. Of course, that is the
> Brand-spanking-new price, so "used" would most likely be at least half
> that, if not less. Your best bet is to check the classifieds for the
> area and find something comparable to what they are offering.
>
>
> --  Tim Morris - UGS PLM Software
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
> Of Michael Rudas
> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 1:26 AM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Going price for LCD TV set?
>
> On 6/11/07, David Lee Lambert wrote:
>
>   
>> I have a friend who is moving halfway across the country and has 
>> offered to sell me his LCD TV,  but I have no idea what price I ought 
>> to offer him.  I don't know the exact specifications,  but it looked
>>     
> like it's about 40"
>   
>> diagonally,  LCD,  DVD aspect-ratio,  in good condition.
>>     
>
> Important information, missing:
>
> 1. Brand & model number (most of the rest can be determined from this).
> 2. Actual pixel resolution.
> 3. Is it 4:3 or 16:9 aspect ratio?  You say "DVD"-- but that's TOTALLY
> meaningless.
> 4. Age and hours of use on set.
> 5. Types and numbers of video inputs.
> 6. Type(s) of tuner(s).
>
> ALL of these factors are VERY important when considering resale value.
>
> -- Mikey
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>   


From tesral at comcast.net  Tue Jun 12 12:59:29 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 12:59:29 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.
In-Reply-To: <f0e9fe590706120452s221e52d9lac19c2be3a15801b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f0e9fe590706120452s221e52d9lac19c2be3a15801b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <466ED0F1.8070303@comcast.net>

Clinton V. Weiss wrote:
> (I'm not affiliated with this company at all - I'm just truly impressed)
>
> Interesting storage system, lets you pop in/out drives at a whim to
> replace dead drives or increase storage:
>
> http://www.drobo.com/products_demo.aspx
>
> Does anyone know of any other self-containing alternatives that are
> this efficient?  This definitely seems worthwhile, but I'm not liking
> the price tag.
>
>   
I see what you mean about price.  And as usual, no Linux support.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From rborromeo at the5spot.com  Tue Jun 12 15:32:04 2007
From: rborromeo at the5spot.com (rborromeo at the5spot.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 15:32:04 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.
References: <f0e9fe590706120452s221e52d9lac19c2be3a15801b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <059e01c7ad28$67d07400$0300c80a@terzo>

> (I'm not affiliated with this company at all - I'm just truly impressed)
>
> Interesting storage system, lets you pop in/out drives at a whim to
> replace dead drives or increase storage:
>
> http://www.drobo.com/products_demo.aspx
>
> Does anyone know of any other self-containing alternatives that are
> this efficient?  This definitely seems worthwhile, but I'm not liking
> the price tag.
>


Not quite the same but does the trick  LVM + eSATA RAID it's a poor mans 
AX100 



From fativi at gmail.com  Tue Jun 12 16:07:34 2007
From: fativi at gmail.com (Brian)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 16:07:34 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.
In-Reply-To: <466ED0F1.8070303@comcast.net>
References: <f0e9fe590706120452s221e52d9lac19c2be3a15801b@mail.gmail.com>
	<466ED0F1.8070303@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <6f64e9540706121307o5e0c8acx9c97a9122df22115@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/12/07, Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:
> I see what you mean about price.  And as usual, no Linux support.
>
> --
> Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.
>

Actually, browsing through google, I found this post on their forums
rumoring their work for releasing tools for Linux.  It would seem that
it doesn't require windows/mac for functionality necessarily but for
monitoring and for the LED's to blink properly ;)  That price tag does
suck though.

http://www.drobospace.com/forum/thread/10402/What-happens-under-Linux-/

-- 
Fati
"It's not stupid, it's advaaanced!" - Tallest Purple


From cvweiss at gmail.com  Tue Jun 12 16:45:53 2007
From: cvweiss at gmail.com (Clinton V. Weiss)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 16:45:53 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.
In-Reply-To: <6f64e9540706121307o5e0c8acx9c97a9122df22115@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f0e9fe590706120452s221e52d9lac19c2be3a15801b@mail.gmail.com>
	<466ED0F1.8070303@comcast.net>
	<6f64e9540706121307o5e0c8acx9c97a9122df22115@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f0e9fe590706121345j2e6645bldb6b9de4c42663c5@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/12/07, Brian <fativi at gmail.com> wrote:
> Actually, browsing through google, I found this post on their forums
> rumoring their work for releasing tools for Linux.  It would seem that
> it doesn't require windows/mac for functionality necessarily but for
> monitoring and for the LED's to blink properly ;)  That price tag does
> suck though.
>

If it requires the computer itself to figure out which LED's need to
blink/light up/etc., then I don't want it anymore.

-- 
Clinton V. Weiss
cvweiss at gmail.com


From tesral at comcast.net  Tue Jun 12 16:56:31 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 16:56:31 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.
In-Reply-To: <f0e9fe590706121345j2e6645bldb6b9de4c42663c5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f0e9fe590706120452s221e52d9lac19c2be3a15801b@mail.gmail.com>	<466ED0F1.8070303@comcast.net>	<6f64e9540706121307o5e0c8acx9c97a9122df22115@mail.gmail.com>
	<f0e9fe590706121345j2e6645bldb6b9de4c42663c5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <466F087F.8030808@comcast.net>

Clinton V. Weiss wrote:
> If it requires the computer itself to figure out which LED's need to
> blink/light up/etc., then I don't want it anymore.
>
>   
It's hardly independent and automatic, is it?

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Tue Jun 12 17:57:32 2007
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 17:57:32 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.
References: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E202F17658@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
Message-ID: <005001c7ad3c$ade04e70$6401a8c0@AMD2000>

Well it would definetly qualify for #4.  So according to dictionary.com, I 
guess it is a robot.
However, I think "user-friendly storage device" would be a better 
description.
Just my $.02 worth.
Too bad it's not supported under Linux (yet).

-Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Morris, Tim" <tmorris at ugs.com>
To: "MDLUG's Main discussion list" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.


> According to dictionary.com, a robot is:
> 1. a machine that resembles a human and does mechanical, routine
> tasks on command.
> 2. a person who acts and responds in a mechanical, routine manner,
> usually subject to another's will; automaton.
> 3. any machine or mechanical device that operates automatically
> with humanlike skill. -adjective
> 4. operating automatically: a robot train operating between airline
> terminals.
>
> The drobo does meet the 3rd and 4th definitions ;)
>
>
> --  Tim Morris - UGS PLM Software
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
> Of Michael ORourke
> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 9:00 AM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.
>
> According to Jim Shaw (marketing person doing the demo), he described it
> as the worlds first "storage robot".  Where is the mechanical arm that
> changes the drives for you?  Doesn't seem to have any "robotic" features
> that I could see.  Maybe a better description would be, "the most
> user-friendly storage device" or "most intelligent storage device".
> Looks like the price reflects that fact too.  Pretty much a no-brainer
> as far as storage arrays go.  Very cool.
>
> -Mike
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Clinton V. Weiss" <cvweiss at gmail.com>
> To: "MDLUG's Main discussion list" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 7:52 AM
> Subject: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.
>
>
>> (I'm not affiliated with this company at all - I'm just truly
> impressed)
>>
>> Interesting storage system, lets you pop in/out drives at a whim to
>> replace dead drives or increase storage:
>>
>> http://www.drobo.com/products_demo.aspx
>>
>> Does anyone know of any other self-containing alternatives that are
>> this efficient?  This definitely seems worthwhile, but I'm not liking
>> the price tag.
>>
>> -- 
>> Clinton V. Weiss
>> cvweiss at gmail.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> mdlug mailing list
>> mdlug at mdlug.org
>> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.8.11/838 - Release Date:
> 6/7/2007
>> 2:21 PM
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.8.11/838 - Release Date: 6/7/2007 
> 2:21 PM
>
> 



From jvartanian at gmail.com  Tue Jun 12 18:02:48 2007
From: jvartanian at gmail.com (Joseph Vartanian)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 18:02:48 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Going price for LCD TV set?
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380706112225m1cca718dg261c4e09a8ede9bc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200706112245.24358.davidl@lmert.com>
	<b67fb0380706112225m1cca718dg261c4e09a8ede9bc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dd889b430706121502h5e30b8f6n7d18f636b1aaca6@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/12/07, Michael Rudas <audiotech50 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 6/11/07, David Lee Lambert wrote:
>
> > I have a friend who is moving halfway across the country and has offered to
> > sell me his LCD TV,  but I have no idea what price I ought to offer him.  I
> > don't know the exact specifications,  but it looked like it's about 40"
> > diagonally,  LCD,  DVD aspect-ratio,  in good condition.
>
> Important information, missing:
>
> 1. Brand & model number (most of the rest can be determined from this).
> 2. Actual pixel resolution.
> 3. Is it 4:3 or 16:9 aspect ratio?  You say "DVD"-- but that's TOTALLY
> meaningless.
> 4. Age and hours of use on set.
> 5. Types and numbers of video inputs.
> 6. Type(s) of tuner(s).
>
> ALL of these factors are VERY important when considering resale value.
>

Good points there.  All of these are important things to consider, but
there is one more thing to consider...picture quality.  There are now
lots of low priced LCD and plasma TVs that look great on paper, but
have absolutely horrible pictures.  The screens are not all created
equal...nowhere near equal.  People want less expensive TV's with all
the bells and whistles, and companies are going to cut as may corners
as possible to manufacture them.  The worst I ever saw was a $700 37"
LCD that was so slow that I could notice the frames changing.  I
wouldn't have believed it if I had not seen it myself.

Basically, when buying an LCD TV, make sure that you worry about the
quality of the actual LCD part of it before anything else.  Go look at
the thing and see how good its picture is.

-Joseph


-Joseph


From linux at ksimachine.com  Tue Jun 12 19:13:19 2007
From: linux at ksimachine.com (Joe St.Clair)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 19:13:19 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.
In-Reply-To: <f0e9fe590706120452s221e52d9lac19c2be3a15801b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f0e9fe590706120452s221e52d9lac19c2be3a15801b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <466F288F.1080209@ksimachine.com>

I just ordered a Promise NS4300N.  It is fairly new, but supports
Windows, Linus/Unix and Mac.
I got it for $389.79 with out drives.  I am putting (4) 750gig Seagate
drives in it.

It has FTP/SMB/CIFS/AFP/NFS Network Protocols Support, RAID 0,1,5,10.
It also has USB HDDs, Printer and UPS Support.

Here is the link to the Promise page.

http://www.promise.com/product/product_detail_eng.asp?product_id=177

Joseph St.Clair

Clinton V. Weiss wrote:
> (I'm not affiliated with this company at all - I'm just truly impressed)
>
> Interesting storage system, lets you pop in/out drives at a whim to
> replace dead drives or increase storage:
>
> http://www.drobo.com/products_demo.aspx
>
> Does anyone know of any other self-containing alternatives that are
> this efficient?  This definitely seems worthwhile, but I'm not liking
> the price tag.
>
>   



From tesral at comcast.net  Tue Jun 12 23:43:34 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 23:43:34 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.
In-Reply-To: <466F288F.1080209@ksimachine.com>
References: <f0e9fe590706120452s221e52d9lac19c2be3a15801b@mail.gmail.com>
	<466F288F.1080209@ksimachine.com>
Message-ID: <466F67E6.9080701@comcast.net>

Joe St.Clair wrote:
> I just ordered a Promise NS4300N.  It is fairly new, but supports
> Windows, Linus/Unix and Mac.
> I got it for $389.79 with out drives.  I am putting (4) 750gig Seagate
> drives in it.
>
> It has FTP/SMB/CIFS/AFP/NFS Network Protocols Support, RAID 0,1,5,10.
> It also has USB HDDs, Printer and UPS Support.
>
> Here is the link to the Promise page.
>
> http://www.promise.com/product/product_detail_eng.asp?product_id=177
>   

Damn...  Drool all over the keyboard.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From eaglecoach at wwnet.com  Tue Jun 12 22:19:15 2007
From: eaglecoach at wwnet.com (Dr. Robert J. Meier)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 22:19:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Scantool report
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20070611223552.0357e520@pop.gmail.com> (message from
	Drew on Mon, 11 Jun 2007 22:37:25 -0400)
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20070611223552.0357e520@pop.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070613021915.EF68A20AA5A@starfox.local>

Drew,

> The Scantool arrived today. ...
> As stated I did not need soldering assistance after all. ...
> Soon as the ignition was turned on I got readings, ...

Great.
[I've been pleased with my modem.]

> I had already had the OBD software on the Palm, ...

What software do you use?
How much does it cost?

TIA,
--
Bob


From danno at umich.edu  Thu Jun 14 11:15:26 2007
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 11:15:26 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.
In-Reply-To: <466F288F.1080209@ksimachine.com>
References: <f0e9fe590706120452s221e52d9lac19c2be3a15801b@mail.gmail.com>
	<466F288F.1080209@ksimachine.com>
Message-ID: <20070614151526.GA74452@maniac.deathstar.org>

Looks very interesting.  know anything about the hardware,
how hackable it is, etc?

On Tue, Jun 12, 2007 at 07:13:19PM -0400, Joe St.Clair wrote:
> I just ordered a Promise NS4300N.  It is fairly new, but supports
> Windows, Linus/Unix and Mac.
> I got it for $389.79 with out drives.  I am putting (4) 750gig Seagate
> drives in it.
> 
> It has FTP/SMB/CIFS/AFP/NFS Network Protocols Support, RAID 0,1,5,10.
> It also has USB HDDs, Printer and UPS Support.
> 
> Here is the link to the Promise page.
> 
> http://www.promise.com/product/product_detail_eng.asp?product_id=177
> 
> Joseph St.Clair
> 
> Clinton V. Weiss wrote:
> > (I'm not affiliated with this company at all - I'm just truly impressed)
> >
> > Interesting storage system, lets you pop in/out drives at a whim to
> > replace dead drives or increase storage:
> >
> > http://www.drobo.com/products_demo.aspx
> >
> > Does anyone know of any other self-containing alternatives that are
> > this efficient?  This definitely seems worthwhile, but I'm not liking
> > the price tag.
> >
> >   
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From tesral at comcast.net  Thu Jun 14 11:35:07 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 11:35:07 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.
In-Reply-To: <20070614151526.GA74452@maniac.deathstar.org>
References: <f0e9fe590706120452s221e52d9lac19c2be3a15801b@mail.gmail.com>	<466F288F.1080209@ksimachine.com>
	<20070614151526.GA74452@maniac.deathstar.org>
Message-ID: <4671602B.3040304@comcast.net>

Dan Pritts wrote:
> Looks very interesting.  know anything about the hardware,
> how hackable it is, etc?
>   

That's a geek.  The first thing we want to know about any hardware is: 
"How can I break it better?"

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From cvweiss at gmail.com  Thu Jun 14 13:33:00 2007
From: cvweiss at gmail.com (Clinton V. Weiss)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 13:33:00 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.
In-Reply-To: <4671602B.3040304@comcast.net>
References: <f0e9fe590706120452s221e52d9lac19c2be3a15801b@mail.gmail.com>
	<466F288F.1080209@ksimachine.com>
	<20070614151526.GA74452@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<4671602B.3040304@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <f0e9fe590706141033p587d82degbfc9ecb5d575311b@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/14/07, Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> That's a geek.  The first thing we want to know about any hardware is:
> "How can I break it better?"


Do I still get to be a geek if I'm always trying to break code to make it
better?

-- 
Clinton V. Weiss
cvweiss at gmail.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070614/a7ec6042/attachment.html>

From tesral at comcast.net  Thu Jun 14 13:50:54 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 13:50:54 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.
In-Reply-To: <f0e9fe590706141033p587d82degbfc9ecb5d575311b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f0e9fe590706120452s221e52d9lac19c2be3a15801b@mail.gmail.com>	<466F288F.1080209@ksimachine.com>	<20070614151526.GA74452@maniac.deathstar.org>	<4671602B.3040304@comcast.net>
	<f0e9fe590706141033p587d82degbfc9ecb5d575311b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46717FFE.8070609@comcast.net>

Clinton V. Weiss wrote:
> On 6/14/07, *Garry Stahl* <tesral at comcast.net
> <mailto:tesral at comcast.net>> wrote:
>
>
>     That's a geek.  The first thing we want to know about any hardware is:
>     "How can I break it better?"
>
>
> Do I still get to be a geek if I'm always trying to break code to make
> it better?

Like you have to ask.


-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Thu Jun 14 13:51:47 2007
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 13:51:47 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.
References: <f0e9fe590706120452s221e52d9lac19c2be3a15801b@mail.gmail.com><466F288F.1080209@ksimachine.com><20070614151526.GA74452@maniac.deathstar.org><4671602B.3040304@comcast.net>
	<f0e9fe590706141033p587d82degbfc9ecb5d575311b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <006d01c7aeac$ade36f80$6401a8c0@AMD2000>

No, then you are a "hacker".  :-)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Clinton V. Weiss" <cvweiss at gmail.com>
To: "MDLUG's Main discussion list" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 1:33 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.


> On 6/14/07, Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> That's a geek.  The first thing we want to know about any hardware is:
>> "How can I break it better?"
>
>
> Do I still get to be a geek if I'm always trying to break code to make it
> better?
>
> -- 
> Clinton V. Weiss
> cvweiss at gmail.com
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.8.16/849 - Release Date: 6/14/2007 
12:44 PM



From ebradley01 at wowway.com  Fri Jun 15 16:55:05 2007
From: ebradley01 at wowway.com (ebradley01 at wowway.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 16:55:05 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Openmoko:  Open Source Mobile-Device Platform
Message-ID: <20070615205211.M68482@wowway.com>

Openmoko is a completely open-source OS platform for mobile devices.  It still
seems to be in its infancy; but the very idea of a totally open cell-phone
platform is worth keeping an eye on.

http://www.openmoko.org/


Evan
--
"The road of life is rocky, and you may stumble too.  So while you point your
finger; someone else is judging you."  --Bob Marley



From rrclark at rrclark.net  Sat Jun 16 17:48:26 2007
From: rrclark at rrclark.net (Rich Clark <rrclark@rrclark.net>)
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 17:48:26 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Xandros joins M$ "preferred Linux distro" list
In-Reply-To: <3b00b3330706051409m13d7c08amc10d09483ee6e40b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200706051153.l55BrvJc004487@groucho-dva.whizdomsoft.com>
	<46656722.6080704@starline-ent.com>
	<3b00b3330706051409m13d7c08amc10d09483ee6e40b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.0.81.0706161747360.11099@rich.rrclark.net>

On Tue, 5 Jun 2007, Wolfger wrote:

> On 6/5/07, bob dion <bobdion at starline-ent.com> wrote:
> >
> > So Microsoft it-self has become a cancer.
> 
> What do you mean "has become"? I'd just say "is". Has been for a while.

Further refinement:  :s/while/long, long time/


From Stan at mcomputersolutions.com  Wed Jun 20 22:33:16 2007
From: Stan at mcomputersolutions.com (Stan Green)
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:33:16 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Test
Message-ID: <200706202233.16980.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>

I have not seen anything in two days. 

Is this thing on?

Stan Green


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Jun 20 22:41:10 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:41:10 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Test
In-Reply-To: <200706202233.16980.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
References: <200706202233.16980.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706201941r3aec3ba0qdb0920a9973e8291@mail.gmail.com>

No. :D

On 6/20/07, Stan Green <Stan at mcomputersolutions.com> wrote:
> I have not seen anything in two days.
>
> Is this thing on?
>
> Stan Green
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From tesral at comcast.net  Thu Jun 21 00:31:13 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 00:31:13 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Test
In-Reply-To: <200706202233.16980.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
References: <200706202233.16980.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <4679FF11.8000003@comcast.net>

Stan Green wrote:
> I have not seen anything in two days. 
>
> Is this thing on?
>   

No.  You did not see this message.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Thu Jun 21 08:28:00 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 08:28:00 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] NTFS-3g
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DE9@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>


 So, it's alleged that Linux finally has safe read-write access to NTFS
filesystems with the "third generation NTFS driver":

 http://www.ntfs-3g.org/

 I haven't bothered with this, but it'd be nice if it does, in fact,
work. Anyone here tried it? Any problems, or just good vibes?

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                              (313) 227-2317

 "We're seeing crazy uptime numbers now, like three months, six months.
   I fully expect we'll see a year of uptime when Windows .NET Server
     2003 is finished," - Jeff Stucky, Microsoft.com operations team
           (Unix systems regularly see multi-year uptimes.)

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. 


From wolfger at gmail.com  Thu Jun 21 08:47:21 2007
From: wolfger at gmail.com (Wolfger)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 08:47:21 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] NTFS-3g
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DE9@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DE9@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <3b00b3330706210547j346648d8i6f4931e7a8cce05@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/21/07, Ingles, Raymond <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:
>
>
> So, it's alleged that Linux finally has safe read-write access to NTFS
> filesystems with the "third generation NTFS driver":
>
> http://www.ntfs-3g.org/
>
> I haven't bothered with this, but it'd be nice if it does, in fact,
> work. Anyone here tried it? Any problems, or just good vibes?
>

I have used it under Mepis 6.5 and it worked great. The only complaint I
have is that whenever I accessed my XP partition with this, the next time I
booted into XP it wanted to do a disk check. The disk checks never turned up
any issues, though. Of course, I have since removed my need of this by
removing my XP partition...

-- 
Wolfger
http://wolfger.wordpress.com/
http://1fjordaroad.wordpress.com/
AOL IM: wolf4coyot
Yahoo!Messenger: wolfgersilberbaer
Skype: wolfger88
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070621/0803b441/attachment.html>

From ebradley01 at wowway.com  Thu Jun 21 14:16:31 2007
From: ebradley01 at wowway.com (ebradley01 at wowway.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 14:16:31 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] NTFS-3g
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1182441602.27799.mdlug@mdlug.org>
References: <mailman.1.1182441602.27799.mdlug@mdlug.org>
Message-ID: <20070621180323.M62258@wowway.com>

I too have used ntfs-3g under Mepis 6.5, and it worked great for me as well. 
I used it with a Seagate FreeAgent USB external hard drive.  The system
noticed that I'd plugged in the drive and it automatically used 'ntfs-3g' as
the file system type.

I did, however, eventually have to move the Freeagent to my XP box since it's
AutoSpinDown feature is hard-coded to 15 minutes; after which it refuses to
spin back up and only gives I/O Errors whenever you try to read/write to it. 
I found a fix online, but I couldn't seem to get it to work on my Mepis system
(due to my ineptitude, not the system itself ;) ) and I just found it easier
to plug it into my XP box and share it on the network.


Just in case anyone's curious, here's the fix I mentioned:

http://tinyurl.com/2exfuv


Evan

--
"The road of life is rocky, and you may stumble too.  So while you point your
finger; someone else is judging you."  --Bob Marley


---------- Original Message -----------
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 08:28:00 -0400
> From: "Ingles, Raymond" <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com>
> Subject: [mdlug] NTFS-3g
> To: "Mdlug (E-mail)" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DE9 at nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
> 	
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
>  So, it's alleged that Linux finally has safe read-write access to NTFS
> filesystems with the "third generation NTFS driver":
> 
>  http://www.ntfs-3g.org/
> 
>  I haven't bothered with this, but it'd be nice if it does, in fact,
> work. Anyone here tried it? Any problems, or just good vibes?
> 
>  Sincerely,
> 
>  Ray Ingles                                              (313) 227-2317
> 
>  "We're seeing crazy uptime numbers now, like three months, six months.
>    I fully expect we'll see a year of uptime when Windows .NET Server
>      2003 is finished," - Jeff Stucky, Microsoft.com operations team
>            (Unix systems regularly see multi-year uptimes.)
> 
> The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee 
> only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you 
> are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy 
> or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in 
> error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.
> 
> ------------------------------
------- End of Original Message -------



From dcs.galco at gmail.com  Thu Jun 21 15:37:03 2007
From: dcs.galco at gmail.com (Deepak Chandrashekar)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 15:37:03 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] NTFS-3G
Message-ID: <bd2841150706211237p5059124cob9dab20c3b1dc1b9@mail.gmail.com>

I have used NTFS-3G. So, far it's pretty stable and the performance is very
good.
It uses FUSE.

Caveats:
       Have a recent kernel (> 2.6.20) to use the  kernel FUSE module or use
the latest FUSE distribution and build the kernel module externally.

-Deepak
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070621/da117e2e/attachment.html>

From tesral at comcast.net  Thu Jun 21 16:03:02 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:03:02 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Networking
Message-ID: <467AD976.2000809@comcast.net>

I have a Linux box and an XP box on a peer to peer network.  I want the
two to talk as seamlessly as possible.
\
How to do?

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Jun 21 16:40:11 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:40:11 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Networking
In-Reply-To: <467AD976.2000809@comcast.net>
References: <467AD976.2000809@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706211340n381a491g56b9afc8ea262e66@mail.gmail.com>

Install samba.  In /etc/samba/smb.conf find and modify or add in the
global section:

    map to guest = bad user
   guest account = nobody
   invalid users = root
   create mask = 0666
   directory mask = 0777

Then just use whatever tool you need to set up shared folders with
write access.  I normally create a /home/public folder for network
sharing and a non-shared /home/local for local r/w for all users.

This setup needs a firewall and secure wireless since samba will let
the whole world access the share.  Make sure the other user home
directories are not browseable from the network.

On 6/21/07, Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:
> I have a Linux box and an XP box on a peer to peer network.  I want the
> two to talk as seamlessly as possible.
> \
> How to do?
>
> --
> Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.
>
> Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
> Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
> The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From cvweiss at gmail.com  Thu Jun 21 16:45:18 2007
From: cvweiss at gmail.com (Clinton V. Weiss)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:45:18 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Networking
In-Reply-To: <467AD976.2000809@comcast.net>
References: <467AD976.2000809@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <f0e9fe590706211345w367ab683l90f5c65d3088da0e@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/21/07, Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:
> I have a Linux box and an XP box on a peer to peer network.  I want the
> two to talk as seamlessly as possible.
> \
> How to do?

Give each of them some speakers, a microphone, a text to speech
program, a speech to text program.  Now start them up, call the linux
box Louis and the XP box Jane, and they should be talking in no time!

Be forewarned, Jane isn't as intelligent as Louis, so expect Jane to
bring down the quality of the conversation.

-- 
Clinton V. Weiss
cvweiss at gmail.com


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Thu Jun 21 22:35:05 2007
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 22:35:05 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] NTFS-3g
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DE9@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DE9@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380706211935w1d87dab1ge1331fa66cb1cfe0@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/21/07, Raymond Ingles wrote:
>
>  So, it's alleged that Linux finally has safe read-write access to NTFS
> filesystems with the "third generation NTFS driver":
>
>  I haven't bothered with this, but it'd be nice if it does, in fact,
> work. Anyone here tried it? Any problems, or just good vibes?

I have used it extensively; it's enabled by default under Knoppix
5.1.1 live CD/DVD-- when I installed the DVD to the hard drive, there
were minor HAL issues, but I fixed those.  I've not experienced
disk-check problems going back-and forth with either my dual-boot
Lin/Win XP setup or live CD/Win XP usage.  It's a bit slower than
writing to vfat or ext3 file systems, since it uses HAL + FUSE as a
transitional layer, but it works just fine-- no errors or lost data in
~5 months heavy use on both internal and USB-connected drives.

In Krusader, NTFS partitions are shown as (fuseblk) and full
read/write access is allowed.

-- Mikey


From rrclark at rrclark.net  Fri Jun 22 18:38:08 2007
From: rrclark at rrclark.net (Rich Clark <rrclark@rrclark.net>)
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 18:38:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Networking
In-Reply-To: <467AD976.2000809@comcast.net>
References: <467AD976.2000809@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.0.81.0706221837590.486@rich.rrclark.net>

On Thu, 21 Jun 2007, Garry Stahl wrote:

> I have a Linux box and an XP box on a peer to peer network.  I want the
> two to talk as seamlessly as possible.
> \
> How to do?

Samba.


From zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com  Sat Jun 23 12:55:26 2007
From: zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com (M. D. Krauss)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 12:55:26 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Rox Stallion
Message-ID: <20070623125526.7573e830@tessa.long>

Hi all,

I recently noticed rox-app-stallion in the Debian/Rox repository at:

deb ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/rox4debian binary/

It is apparently a Gecko-based browser designed to integrate with the
Rox desktop.  I wanted to see what it was like, so I apt-get installed
it, but it won't run.

So, okay, I just wanted to get an idea about it, so I went to the web
to find some screen-shots or such.  I can't find any evidence, even on
Google Groups, that there is any such program in existence.  I even
checked some open-source development pages (such as Sourceforge) for the
project - nada.

Does anyone know anything about this?

Thanks,
Matthew



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sat Jun 23 19:57:33 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 19:57:33 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Charter Communications clueless tech support
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706231657t7a0751bbwa400850969305581@mail.gmail.com>

I contacted Charter's Internet customer service through their online
chat to find out the upstream speed of their 10Mbps package.  The chat
window has a very short scrollback buffer but I saved the important
part:

Jomar:   Do you mean to say that you are having a slow speed?

Jomar:   Is that what you mean?

Jeff Hanson:   I am considering upgrading to 10Mbps package from 5Mbps
package. The 5Mbps package has 512Kbps upstream speed. What is 10Mbps
upstream bandwidth?

Jomar:   One gigabyte upstream bandwith for ten meg internet package.

Jomar:   One gigabyte upstream bandwidth for ten meg internet package.

Jomar:   Is there anything else I can help you with today?

https://www.charter.com/order/OfferDetail.aspx?OfferID=25800&ProductItem=

It seemed too good to be true so I used their contact form to clarify:
----------------
Via the live chat, I asked one of your agents, Jomar, about the
upstream bandwidth of the 10Mbps package.  Jomar replied that it was
8Gbps.  I was going to reply but the session timed out while I was
momentarily incapacitated due to laughter.  Could an agent with
technical expertise answer this question?

PS.  I would like to offer my training services to Charter Internet
support personnel at a rate of $50USD/hour/individual.  A few hours of
basic Internet technology review would greatly increase the
effectiveness of your support staff.  If you are interested please
contact me at the above address.
----------------
I got a reply later that it was 1Mbps up.  With the no-TV bonus charge
it's $79.99/mo.


From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Sat Jun 23 20:02:11 2007
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 20:02:11 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Charter Communications clueless tech support
References: <b02c40e90706231657t7a0751bbwa400850969305581@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <02b301c7b5f2$e9f1cec0$6401a8c0@AMD2000>

Sounds like he got his bits and bytes mixed up.  :-)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeff Hanson" <jhansonxi at gmail.com>
To: "MDLUG's Main discussion list" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2007 7:57 PM
Subject: [mdlug] Charter Communications clueless tech support


>I contacted Charter's Internet customer service through their online
> chat to find out the upstream speed of their 10Mbps package.  The chat
> window has a very short scrollback buffer but I saved the important
> part:
>
> Jomar:   Do you mean to say that you are having a slow speed?
>
> Jomar:   Is that what you mean?
>
> Jeff Hanson:   I am considering upgrading to 10Mbps package from 5Mbps
> package. The 5Mbps package has 512Kbps upstream speed. What is 10Mbps
> upstream bandwidth?
>
> Jomar:   One gigabyte upstream bandwith for ten meg internet package.
>
> Jomar:   One gigabyte upstream bandwidth for ten meg internet package.
>
> Jomar:   Is there anything else I can help you with today?
>
> https://www.charter.com/order/OfferDetail.aspx?OfferID=25800&ProductItem=
>
> It seemed too good to be true so I used their contact form to clarify:
> ----------------
> Via the live chat, I asked one of your agents, Jomar, about the
> upstream bandwidth of the 10Mbps package.  Jomar replied that it was
> 8Gbps.  I was going to reply but the session timed out while I was
> momentarily incapacitated due to laughter.  Could an agent with
> technical expertise answer this question?
>
> PS.  I would like to offer my training services to Charter Internet
> support personnel at a rate of $50USD/hour/individual.  A few hours of
> basic Internet technology review would greatly increase the
> effectiveness of your support staff.  If you are interested please
> contact me at the above address.
> ----------------
> I got a reply later that it was 1Mbps up.  With the no-TV bonus charge
> it's $79.99/mo.
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.9.4/860 - Release Date: 6/21/2007 
> 5:53 PM
>
> 



From zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com  Sun Jun 24 00:59:14 2007
From: zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com (M. D. Krauss)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 00:59:14 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Charter Communications clueless tech support
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90706231657t7a0751bbwa400850969305581@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e90706231657t7a0751bbwa400850969305581@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070624005914.0715c42b@tessa.long>

On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 19:57:33 -0400
"Jeff Hanson" <jhansonxi at gmail.com> wrote:

/snip bizarre tech-support story

> PS.  I would like to offer my training services to Charter Internet
> support personnel at a rate of $50USD/hour/individual.  A few hours of
> basic Internet technology review would greatly increase the
> effectiveness of your support staff.  If you are interested please
> contact me at the above address.
> ----------------
> I got a reply later that it was 1Mbps up.  With the no-TV bonus charge
> it's $79.99/mo.

Yes, but did they take you up on your offer?


From freemancomputer at yahoo.com  Sun Jun 24 01:20:05 2007
From: freemancomputer at yahoo.com (jack freeman)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 22:20:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Charter Communications clueless tech support
Message-ID: <810768.52268.qm@web55511.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

I been dealing with linksys tech support over the last few months about my router dropping connections. Each time I have to enplane what telnet and ports are. Then I have to tell them why its not a port forwarding problem. Then they like to disconnect me. It as amusing at first now its just getting annoying.

----- Original Message ----
From: Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2007 6:57:33 PM
Subject: [mdlug] Charter Communications clueless tech support

I contacted Charter's Internet customer service through their online
chat to find out the upstream speed of their 10Mbps package.  The chat
window has a very short scrollback buffer but I saved the important
part:

Jomar:   Do you mean to say that you are having a slow speed?

Jomar:   Is that what you mean?

Jeff Hanson:   I am considering upgrading to 10Mbps package from 5Mbps
package. The 5Mbps package has 512Kbps upstream speed. What is 10Mbps
upstream bandwidth?

Jomar:   One gigabyte upstream bandwith for ten meg internet package.

Jomar:   One gigabyte upstream bandwidth for ten meg internet package.

Jomar:   Is there anything else I can help you with today?

https://www.charter.com/order/OfferDetail.aspx?OfferID=25800&ProductItem=

It seemed too good to be true so I used their contact form to clarify:
----------------
Via the live chat, I asked one of your agents, Jomar, about the
upstream bandwidth of the 10Mbps package.  Jomar replied that it was
8Gbps.  I was going to reply but the session timed out while I was
momentarily incapacitated due to laughter.  Could an agent with
technical expertise answer this question?

PS.  I would like to offer my training services to Charter Internet
support personnel at a rate of $50USD/hour/individual.  A few hours of
basic Internet technology review would greatly increase the
effectiveness of your support staff.  If you are interested please
contact me at the above address.
----------------
I got a reply later that it was 1Mbps up.  With the no-TV bonus charge
it's $79.99/mo.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug







      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Shape Yahoo! in your own image.  Join our Network Research Panel today!   http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070623/fc51d5ad/attachment.html>

From zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com  Sun Jun 24 03:03:40 2007
From: zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com (M. D. Krauss)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 03:03:40 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Charter Communications clueless tech support
In-Reply-To: <810768.52268.qm@web55511.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <810768.52268.qm@web55511.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20070624030340.1c54abe4@tessa.long>

On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 22:20:05 -0700 (PDT)
jack freeman <freemancomputer at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I been dealing with linksys tech support over the last few months
> about my router dropping connections. Each time I have to enplane
> what telnet and ports are. Then I have to tell them why its not a
> port forwarding problem. Then they like to disconnect me. It as
> amusing at first now its just getting annoying.

Ugh.

Have you tried updating the firmware?  Or failing that, a
factory-reset?

Good luck,
Matthew


From freemancomputer at yahoo.com  Sun Jun 24 03:30:38 2007
From: freemancomputer at yahoo.com (jack freeman)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 00:30:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Charter Communications clueless tech support
Message-ID: <580748.89154.qm@web55511.mail.re4.yahoo.com>



----- Original Message ----
From: M. D. Krauss <zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com>
To: mdlug at mdlug.org
Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 2:03:40 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Charter Communications clueless tech support

On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 22:20:05 -0700 (PDT)
jack freeman <freemancomputer at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I been dealing with linksys tech support over the last few months
> about my router dropping connections. Each time I have to enplane
> what telnet and ports are. Then I have to tell them why its not a
> port forwarding problem. Then they like to disconnect me. It as
> amusing at first now its just getting annoying.

Ugh.

Have you tried updating the firmware?  Or failing that, a
factory-reset?

Good luck,
Matthew



Those were the first things that i did, there finely getting around to sending me a new one. Just annoys me that even when you ask for there supervisor that person knows even less. 
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug







       
____________________________________________________________________________________Ready for the edge of your seat? 
Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. 
http://tv.yahoo.com/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070624/b7ea0b73/attachment.html>

From rjclay at gmail.com  Sun Jun 24 08:34:47 2007
From: rjclay at gmail.com (Robert J. Clay)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 08:34:47 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Rox Stallion
In-Reply-To: <20070623125526.7573e830@tessa.long>
References: <20070623125526.7573e830@tessa.long>
Message-ID: <a379574a0706240534k7c70b3a1xda881bc2a37d6a6f@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/23/07, M. D. Krauss <zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I recently noticed rox-app-stallion in the Debian/Rox repository at:
>
> deb ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/rox4debian binary/
>
> It is apparently a Gecko-based browser designed to integrate with the
> Rox desktop.  I wanted to see what it was like, so I apt-get installed
> it, but it won't run.

     What does that mean, "won't run"?


> So, okay, I just wanted to get an idea about it, so I went to the web
> to find some screen-shots or such.  I can't find any evidence, even on
> Google Groups, that there is any such program in existence.  I even
> checked some open-source development pages (such as Sourceforge) for the
> project - nada.

    What did you search for?  I had no problems finding information
about it;  where I mostly looked was at  rox.sourceforge.net, with
Debian specific information at
http://rox.sourceforge.net/desktop/Debian...


-- 
Robert J. Clay
rjclay at gmail.com


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sun Jun 24 11:22:10 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 11:22:10 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Charter Communications clueless tech support
In-Reply-To: <580748.89154.qm@web55511.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <580748.89154.qm@web55511.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706240822k28a890a6qed7fdc48ecd69497@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/24/07, jack freeman <freemancomputer at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Those were the first things that i did, there finely getting around to
> sending me a new one. Just annoys me that even when you ask for there
> supervisor that person knows even less.

People are not promoted to management because they know anything.

I once had a Motorola cordless phone with an intermittent connection
problem.  I exchanged about a dozen E-mails with their tech support
(in India I think) who insisted that it was interference with an
appliance, even though it was at a farmhouse in a rural area with no
wireless networks around.  I eventually realized that my strategy was
wrong because E-mail communications are cheap for them.  So I called
their tech support department (in the USA) who can't afford to spend a
lot of time on the phone with a customer.  They gave me an RMA without
a hassle.

I also have a Belkin non-wireless router that randomly locks up.
Never did figure that one out.


From eaglecoach at wwnet.com  Sun Jun 24 11:45:27 2007
From: eaglecoach at wwnet.com (Dr. Robert J. Meier)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 11:45:27 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Charter Communications clueless tech support
In-Reply-To: <20070624005914.0715c42b@tessa.long> (zeros0and1ones@yahoo.com)
References: <b02c40e90706231657t7a0751bbwa400850969305581@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070624005914.0715c42b@tessa.long>
Message-ID: <20070624154527.DF4B920AAE2@starfox.local>

M.D.

>> PS.  I would like to offer my training services to Charter Internet
>> support personnel at a rate of $50USD/hour/individual.  A few hours of
>> basic Internet technology review would greatly increase the
>> effectiveness of your support staff.  If you are interested please
>> contact me at the above address.
> Yes, but did they take you up on your offer?

I made this offer several score times, and never yet been taken up on it.



> Sounds like he got his bits and bytes mixed up.  :-)

8G vs 1Mbps: He got his decimal points mixed up!

<HUMOR>
I wonder if they'd notice if you got your dollars and pennies mixed up.
</HUMOR>

--
Dr B


From tesral at comcast.net  Sun Jun 24 14:01:05 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 14:01:05 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Charter Communications clueless tech support
In-Reply-To: <20070624154527.DF4B920AAE2@starfox.local>
References: <b02c40e90706231657t7a0751bbwa400850969305581@mail.gmail.com>	<20070624005914.0715c42b@tessa.long>
	<20070624154527.DF4B920AAE2@starfox.local>
Message-ID: <467EB161.6010603@comcast.net>

Dr. Robert J. Meier wrote:
> I made this offer several score times, and never yet been taken up on it.
>   
That would cost money and might teach the helpless desk that they are
way underpaid..


-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Sun Jun 24 15:44:05 2007
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 15:44:05 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] WinVista vs. Linux security- MS's take
Message-ID: <b67fb0380706241244p30fd182bgeb4e84132ee7d051@mail.gmail.com>

Man, I'm glad I had already set my coffee cup down before reading this
article-- the liquid shooting out my nose would certainly have bathed
the monitor and keyboard: "Microsoft Claims Vista Is More Secure Than
Linux"
<http://www.newsfactor.com/story.xhtml?story_id=53263>

Of course, the old "apples and oranges" applies here-- "Vista" is just
the OS, while "Linux" is the entire distro, all apps included-- and no
mention is made of the relative severity of said vulnerabilites, local
vs. remote exploits, etc.

It's also interesting to note the article's rating, 1.5 out of 5
stars... I think people are (at least) starting to get the message.

Of course, at this point, Microsoft's PR machine is spinning like mad,
as exemplified in this article: "Don't wait for Vista SP1, pleads
Microsoft"
<http://apcmag.com/6458/dont_wait_for_vista_sp1_pleads_microsoft>

Also close to the front of the "Clueless Patrol"  is this gentleman,
whose HuffPost article show that he doesn't get it, either-- but the
commenters seem to:

"Open Source is Not Innovative"
<http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-r-keith-sawyer/open-source-is-not-innova_b_53256.html>

-- Mikey


From zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com  Sun Jun 24 17:04:43 2007
From: zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com (M. D. Krauss)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 17:04:43 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] WinVista vs. Linux security- MS's take
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380706241244p30fd182bgeb4e84132ee7d051@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380706241244p30fd182bgeb4e84132ee7d051@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070624170443.2cac4a2c@tessa.long>

On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 15:44:05 -0400
"Michael Rudas" <audiotech50 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Man, I'm glad I had already set my coffee cup down before reading this
> article-- the liquid shooting out my nose would certainly have bathed
> the monitor and keyboard: "Microsoft Claims Vista Is More Secure Than
> Linux"
> <http://www.newsfactor.com/story.xhtml?story_id=53263>

Summary: Microsoft's public assessment of their own security problems
is rosier then Red Hat's public assessment of their own security
problems; Microsoft also fixes fewer bugs, therefor they must be less
buggy!

Yep, glad you warned us so I put down my own coffee :)


From zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com  Sun Jun 24 17:23:04 2007
From: zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com (M. D. Krauss)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 17:23:04 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Rox Stallion
In-Reply-To: <a379574a0706240534k7c70b3a1xda881bc2a37d6a6f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070623125526.7573e830@tessa.long>
	<a379574a0706240534k7c70b3a1xda881bc2a37d6a6f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070624172304.765aaa60@tessa.long>

On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 08:34:47 -0400
"Robert J. Clay" <rjclay at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 6/23/07, M. D. Krauss <zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I recently noticed rox-app-stallion in the Debian/Rox repository at:
> >
> > deb ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/rox4debian binary/
> >
> > It is apparently a Gecko-based browser designed to integrate with
> > the Rox desktop.  I wanted to see what it was like, so I apt-get
> > installed it, but it won't run.
> 
>      What does that mean, "won't run"?

Well, I didn't go in to details as I was not asking for help getting
it to run, but here is what happened:

ROX software (unfortunately, in my opinion) is distributed through a
system called Zero-Install.  This system automatically installs/updates
programs when you try to run them.

The unofficial Debian repository mentioned above carries a number of
zero-install "launchers" for Rox programs.  When you install one, you
basically get a clickable icon in Rox that will start the Zero-install
"injector" and try to install and run the program for you.

When I clicked on the clickable icon, the injector told me it could not
get the files it needed. The specific error the injector gives is:

Error downloading 'xulrunner':

Error downloading 'http://dist.opendocumentfellowship.org/xulrunner':
HTTP Error 404: Not Found


> > So, okay, I just wanted to get an idea about it, so I went to the
> > web to find some screen-shots or such.  I can't find any evidence,
> > even on Google Groups, that there is any such program in
> > existence.  I even checked some open-source development pages (such
> > as Sourceforge) for the project - nada.
> 
>     What did you search for?  I had no problems finding information
> about it;  where I mostly looked was at  rox.sourceforge.net, with
> Debian specific information at
> http://rox.sourceforge.net/desktop/Debian...

This appears to be information about how to install Rox on Debian.  I
have no problem with this, and have been running Rox on Debian for a
long time.  I use it in conjunction with Window-maker, and highly
recommend the pair.

What I was interested in is getting a look at the specific Rox
application called "Stallion" which is apparently a web browser.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sun Jun 24 18:48:23 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 18:48:23 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] WinVista vs. Linux security- MS's take
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380706241244p30fd182bgeb4e84132ee7d051@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380706241244p30fd182bgeb4e84132ee7d051@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706241548n1e05ee4bj9216977578382434@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/24/07, Michael Rudas <audiotech50 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Man, I'm glad I had already set my coffee cup down before reading this
> article-- the liquid shooting out my nose would certainly have bathed
> the monitor and keyboard: "Microsoft Claims Vista Is More Secure Than
> Linux"
> <http://www.newsfactor.com/story.xhtml?story_id=53263>
>
> Of course, the old "apples and oranges" applies here-- "Vista" is just
> the OS, while "Linux" is the entire distro, all apps included-- and no
> mention is made of the relative severity of said vulnerabilites, local
> vs. remote exploits, etc.

This was posted at Tom's Hardware a few days ago:
www.tgdaily.com/content/view/32596/118/

I'll repeat my response to that posting:
--------------------------
Jun 22, 2007 15:25
Keyword: "disclosed"

Open source will always have more disclosed vulnerabilities because
they've got nothing to hide.

It's like researching sexual behaviors in modern America by publicly
polling conservative politicians and porn stars about their sex life.
--------------------------


From wolfger at gmail.com  Sun Jun 24 20:01:03 2007
From: wolfger at gmail.com (Wolfger)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 20:01:03 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] WinVista vs. Linux security- MS's take
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90706241548n1e05ee4bj9216977578382434@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380706241244p30fd182bgeb4e84132ee7d051@mail.gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90706241548n1e05ee4bj9216977578382434@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3b00b3330706241701s78402dafqc10a81602760a72a@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/24/07, Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com> wrote:

> Open source will always have more disclosed vulnerabilities because
> they've got nothing to hide.
>
> It's like researching sexual behaviors in modern America by publicly
> polling conservative politicians and porn stars about their sex life.

Yeah, pretty much... Ask porn stars if they have deviant sexual
behavior, and ask politicians/clergy if they have sexual deviant
behavior, and then wait to see which group is caught first with an
underage boy...

-- 
Wolfger
http://wolfger.wordpress.com/
http://1fjordaroad.wordpress.com/
AOL IM: wolf4coyot
Yahoo!Messenger: wolfgersilberbaer
Skype: wolfger88


From as4109 at wayne.edu  Sun Jun 24 21:16:10 2007
From: as4109 at wayne.edu (David Lee Lambert)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 21:16:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Networking
Message-ID: <20070624211610.EBU60299@mirapointms6.wayne.edu>

--- Original message ----
>Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:03:02 -0400
>From: Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net>  
>
>I have a Linux box and an XP box on a peer to peer network.  I want the
>two to talk as seamlessly as possible.

You have several choices:

1.  Install Samba on Linux;  enable the [homes] and [printers] shares,  and set up shares for anything else;  use smbfs to mount shares in the other direction,  or just use smbclient to copy files.

2.  Install Services for Unix on Windows,  and enable the NFS client and server and the LPD client and server.

3.  Install the NCP toolchain (ncpfs,  I'm not sure what else) on Linux,  and install "Client for NetWare" and "Server for NetWare" on Windows.  This is probably harder than the first two alternatives;  I've never done it.

4.  Install Cygwin sshd and ssh on Windows.  You can use scp to copy files.  This might be all you need to do,  or you might want to do this anyway.

5.  To view the Windows desktop remotely from Linux,  use the "tsclient" program or install a VNC server on Windows and use "vncviewer".  

    To run graphical programs across the network from Windows,  install the Cygwin X server,  or start a new VNC desktop with "vncserver" and access it with a Windows VNC client.
 




From zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com  Sun Jun 24 21:49:53 2007
From: zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com (M. D. Krauss)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 21:49:53 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Networking
In-Reply-To: <20070624211610.EBU60299@mirapointms6.wayne.edu>
References: <20070624211610.EBU60299@mirapointms6.wayne.edu>
Message-ID: <20070624214953.60a6fd54@tessa.long>

On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 21:16:10 -0400 (EDT)
David Lee Lambert <as4109 at wayne.edu> wrote:

> --- Original message ----
> >Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:03:02 -0400
> >From: Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net>  
> >
> >I have a Linux box and an XP box on a peer to peer network.  I want
> >the two to talk as seamlessly as possible.
> 
> You have several choices:
> 
> 1.  Install Samba on Linux;  enable the [homes] and [printers]
> shares,  and set up shares for anything else;  use smbfs to mount
> shares in the other direction,  or just use smbclient to copy files.

I have had better experience lately with cifs then smbfs.  smbfs was
always a wrestling match to get it to work correctly and then would
drop the connection leaving you with a hung mount.  The newer mount.cifs
is a breeze to set up and seems more reliable as well.


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Mon Jun 25 13:47:20 2007
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 13:47:20 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Virtualization in WinVista
Message-ID: <b67fb0380706251047k6562fb4fh66b17aaa8cf340f7@mail.gmail.com>

I'm sure that there are some of us who would like to legally host
WinVista under Linux.  It almost happened for Home users, but...

There's a good reason why Microsoft flip-flopped on virtualization in
WinVista Home: It turns out that the DRM features in WinVista are
easily blown away like smoke on a summer breeze when WinVista is
virtualized. See http://preview.tinyurl.com/yrjfvd (Computerworld
article). I don't see how MS can fix this, nor why they didn't realize
it BEFORE the egg blew up in their faces.

In acceding to the likes of Sony and Viacom, Microsoft thought they
could be the masters of Hollywood, but it's the customers that are
getting bent over...

-- Mikey


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Jun 25 15:09:31 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 15:09:31 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Virtualization in WinVista
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380706251047k6562fb4fh66b17aaa8cf340f7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380706251047k6562fb4fh66b17aaa8cf340f7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706251209m1bc0ced1wfa6899db08b5a1d9@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/25/07, Michael Rudas <audiotech50 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm sure that there are some of us who would like to legally host
> WinVista under Linux.  It almost happened for Home users, but...
>
> There's a good reason why Microsoft flip-flopped on virtualization in
> WinVista Home: It turns out that the DRM features in WinVista are
> easily blown away like smoke on a summer breeze when WinVista is
> virtualized. See http://preview.tinyurl.com/yrjfvd (Computerworld
> article). I don't see how MS can fix this, nor why they didn't realize
> it BEFORE the egg blew up in their faces.

I suspected that the DRM would be ineffective when sharing VMs except
for Microsoft's VirtualPC which could enforce it on the guest OS.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Jun 25 15:12:43 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 15:12:43 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Channel vendors skeptical about Vista sales figures
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706251212h66cb915cpda5ec3ff21e8a686@mail.gmail.com>

channel.tomshardware.com/2007/06/25/channel_skeptical_about_vista_claims/

You'd think that 40-million units sold would represent a runaway hit.
But while Microsoft is calling Vista a huge win, some folks in the
channel are not completely sold on that assessment.

"Microsoft's launch of Vista has been as successful as the U.S.
finding WMDs in Iraq," Herb Criscito, vice president for Buy.com,
said. "We are finding little to no demand for the new operating
system. Lack of support, drivers and compatibility issues have been
major roadblocks deterring customers to upgrade."

Yet, Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates recently said 40 million units were
sold in the first 100 days of the operating system's release (while
almost 75% of the licenses were for the Premium edition) and that the
Vista adoption rate has been twice as fast as the adoption of Windows
XP.

But so far, the channel is pausing to think about the "non-OEM"
recommendation options for Vista. According to resellers polled, the
overwhelming response from almost every customer segment is to wait.
Clients by and large are still ordering machines with XP, or if they
get them with Vista, are rebuilding an image with XP and rolling it
out from there.


From bobdion at starline-ent.com  Mon Jun 25 18:16:06 2007
From: bobdion at starline-ent.com (Bob Dion)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 18:16:06 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] The Case Against OOXML
Message-ID: <46803EA6.3080609@starline-ent.com>

This is an LT link, the article is a PDF file.

http://www.linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/2007062501926OSMSSW

BD


From jvartanian at gmail.com  Mon Jun 25 18:45:36 2007
From: jvartanian at gmail.com (Joseph Vartanian)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 18:45:36 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
Message-ID: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>

I'm sure at more than a few of you on this list are DIY geeks, so this
is for you.  What tools would you want in your toolbox?  Types of
tools, specific products, specific brand names...whatever.  What tools
do you think are important in a good DIY geek toolbox?

I'm really asking because I want to see if I can get any good ideas
from you for my own toolbox that I'm building (I'm feed up with my
lousy tools), but I also figure others would find it useful.  If you
know of a good place to get these tools, online or brick and mortar,
that would be cool too.

I know you may be thinking this all depends on exactly what type of
projects you're working on.  Since I'm not really interested in just
one specific thing, lets assume that you're going to be working on a
little bit of everything.

I'll start out with a really easy one myself...a Dremel 400 Series
rotary tool.  I'll leave the more difficult ones up to you guys.

-Joseph


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Jun 25 19:32:05 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 19:32:05 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706251632q50e0ccc7r68560d73487540b@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/25/07, Joseph Vartanian <jvartanian at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm sure at more than a few of you on this list are DIY geeks, so this
> is for you.  What tools would you want in your toolbox?  Types of
> tools, specific products, specific brand names...whatever.  What tools
> do you think are important in a good DIY geek toolbox?

Cheap multimeter:
www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0207743

Pillbox with lots of different PC fasteners, wire ties, standoffs.

RJ11/RJ45 crimper

Coax stripper and hex F-connector crimper.

Pocket microscope

LED flashlight

Cheap tool kit and some multi-screwdrivers

Utility and hobby knives

Dental or swivel mirror

Extending magnet

Knoppix or Damn Small Linux

USB Flash key

The Worst-Case Scenario Survival Handbook


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Jun 25 19:33:28 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 19:33:28 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90706251632q50e0ccc7r68560d73487540b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90706251632q50e0ccc7r68560d73487540b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706251633h624d8eb8oce3d0f3e793c42e9@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/25/07, Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com> wrote:

Forgot duct tape and Goop adhesive.


From jvartanian at gmail.com  Mon Jun 25 20:08:33 2007
From: jvartanian at gmail.com (Joseph Vartanian)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 20:08:33 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90706251632q50e0ccc7r68560d73487540b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90706251632q50e0ccc7r68560d73487540b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dd889b430706251708q67d56a0bx19bdeb9ebe8edae1@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/25/07, Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 6/25/07, Joseph Vartanian <jvartanian at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I'm sure at more than a few of you on this list are DIY geeks, so this
> > is for you.  What tools would you want in your toolbox?  Types of
> > tools, specific products, specific brand names...whatever.  What tools
> > do you think are important in a good DIY geek toolbox?
>
> Cheap multimeter:
> www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0207743
>
> Pillbox with lots of different PC fasteners, wire ties, standoffs.
>
> RJ11/RJ45 crimper
>
> Coax stripper and hex F-connector crimper.
>
> Pocket microscope
>
> LED flashlight
>
> Cheap tool kit and some multi-screwdrivers
>
> Utility and hobby knives
>
> Dental or swivel mirror
>
> Extending magnet
>
> Knoppix or Damn Small Linux
>
> USB Flash key
>
> The Worst-Case Scenario Survival Handbook
>

OK, you completely threw me off with the survival handbook.  But the
pocket microscope...I would have never thought of it.  I can
definitely see how it can be useful, or at least fun.  That goes on my
shopping list.

-Joseph


From zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 25 20:32:05 2007
From: zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com (M. D. Krauss)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 20:32:05 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070625203205.7975b732@tessa.long>

On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 18:45:36 -0400
"Joseph Vartanian" <jvartanian at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm sure at more than a few of you on this list are DIY geeks, so this
> is for you.  What tools would you want in your toolbox?  Types of
> tools, specific products, specific brand names...whatever.  What tools
> do you think are important in a good DIY geek toolbox?

Bash, the standard GNU tools, and Zenity can do wonders.

/snip a bunch of stuff
 
> I'll start out with a really easy one myself...a Dremel 400 Series
> rotary tool.  I'll leave the more difficult ones up to you guys.

Ohhhh... You meant like for fixing up and building stuff around the
house or such?

Well, I'm not a very experienced DIY-er, but trying to learn.  Aside
from all the obvious standard things, one thing I find indispensable is
my Leatherman Wave multi-tool. With that, I often don't even need to get
out the toolbox. Another real nice thing I have is a T-shaped ratcheting
screwdriver. (The handle is the horizontal of a capital T; this allows
you to twist while keeping your wrist straight. The interchangeable
bits are held in hexagonal holes through the handle.)

Matthew


From tesral at comcast.net  Mon Jun 25 21:44:22 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 21:44:22 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46806F76.4040709@comcast.net>

Joseph Vartanian wrote:
> I'm sure at more than a few of you on this list are DIY geeks, so this
> is for you.  What tools would you want in your toolbox?  Types of
> tools, specific products, specific brand names...whatever.  What tools
> do you think are important in a good DIY geek toolbox?
>
> I'm really asking because I want to see if I can get any good ideas
> from you for my own toolbox that I'm building (I'm feed up with my
> lousy tools), but I also figure others would find it useful.  If you
> know of a good place to get these tools, online or brick and mortar,
> that would be cool too.
>
> I know you may be thinking this all depends on exactly what type of
> projects you're working on.  Since I'm not really interested in just
> one specific thing, lets assume that you're going to be working on a
> little bit of everything.
>
> I'll start out with a really easy one myself...a Dremel 400 Series
> rotary tool.  I'll leave the more difficult ones up to you guys.
>   

Money spent on good tools is never wasted.  --The Tao of Phoenix.

Brand.  It is difficult to go wrong with Craftsman hand tools.  I prefer
them in my tool box.  Stanly is also good.
A good general tool box should have.

Hammers, claw and ball peen of about 12 oz minimum.  Additional hammers
that are useful are a small sledge, a rubber mallet.  A dead blow hammer.

Screwdrivers.  No geek can live without them.  While you can buy manual
screwdrivers of every kind I prefer a single grip with interchangeable
tips.  It saves a lot of space in the toolbox.  My set of driver tips
take a hell of a lot less space than it would with a handle for each as
well.  You cannot go wrong if you have one power tool and that is a
power screw driver.

Pliers.  For geek work you cannot go wrong with a good set of micro
pliers.  They will include wire cutters, end cutters, long needle nose,
flat jaw and a curved jaw at larger versions of the small pliers, and
vice grips are never a bad thing to have.  I would call at least one
pair of vice grips basic.  Full sized pliers would be the classic slip
joint and channel locks.  If you are buying Craftsman a set of the
robogrip pliers replace any slip jaw set.

Wrenches.  At minimum a crescent wrench.  I do not like adjustable
wrenches.  I prefer combination wrenches in the exact size I need.  I
have many wrenches.  Sockets are also a good to have.  At least a set of
1/4 drive sockets.  Also available now are ratchet wrenches that combine
the function of the socket and wrench.  I would look into those.

Saws.  A hack saw and a good backsaw are geek minimums.  Saws, like
hammers, come in more flavors than ice cream.  Everyone has their favorites.

Geek Specials.  That would be wire strippers, soldering tools, cable
making tools.  Each as you need it.  My box has a basic circuit tester,
a soldering iron, cable crimper and strippers.  An Ethernet cable
tester. a computer PS tester.

Things you thought you would never need.  Wood chisels. cold chisels 
Putty knives, clamps (you cannot have too many clamps) wonder bar,
cordless drill, combination square and a quick square, level, more as I
think of it.

I prefer the Stylus Dremel tool myself.  Nice tool all around,

And, I am barely touching on power tools.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From driveray at ameritech.net  Mon Jun 25 22:18:53 2007
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 22:18:53 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] President's mail bag
Message-ID: <4680778D.50805@ameritech.net>

MDLUG:
Passed along with out comment.

Joseph,

Thank you for contacting me. I will pass you message on to our group's
membership.

Raymond McLaughlin
President MDLUG

Joseph C. Penkala wrote:
> > Raymond,
> >
> > My name is Joe Penkala and I am currently working on an opportunity on
> > behalf of a client here in metropolitan Detroit. They are looking for a
> > computer programmer and when I came across your user group, I thought I
> > would see if you would be able to assist me.
> >
> > The main technical skill sets required for this position include, but
> > are not limited to:
> >
> >
> >
> > - Programming in PHP
> >
> > - MySQL
> >
> > - Basic Linux skills
> >
> > - Apache Web Server - Skills 1-4 are related, used together, and make up
> > the acronym L.A.M.P. (Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP)
> >
> > - Basic understanding of XML
> >
> > - HTML
> >
> > - SQL Server
> >
> > - Basic.Net programming
> >
> > - Web Development skills
> >
> > - Computer Networking skills
> >
> >
> >
> > Any help you could give me would be great appreciated. Feel free to
> > contact me via phone or email.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *Joseph  C. Penkala*
> >
> > Account Executive
> >
> > Penkala & Associates
> >
> > (Formerly MANAGEMENT RECRUITERS OF STERLING HEIGHTS)
> >
> > 4333 Metropolitan Parkway, Suite B
> >
> > Sterling Heights, MI 48310
> >
> > O - 586.795.4100
> >
> > F  - 586.795.4101
> >
> > joe.penkala at mristerling.com
> >
> > www.mristerling.com <http://www.mristerling.com/>
> >
> >
> >
> > *MRI*Network
> >
> > EXPERTS IN GLOBAL SEARCH
> >




From rrcb21 at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 25 22:30:40 2007
From: rrcb21 at yahoo.com (Ron Blanchett)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 19:30:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] MonroeLUG June Meeting Announcement
Message-ID: <736504.2680.qm@web82313.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


=====MonroeLUG June Meeting Announcement=====

Topic: Sed, Grep, Awk, & RegEx
Date & Time: Tuesday June 26, 2007 6:00PM - 9:00PM
Place: Monroe County Community College La-Z-Boy Center Room Z-271 http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=1555+S.Raisinville+Rd.+monroe+mi+48161

This months meeting is a rescheduling of last months meeting after a mix up of the date.

Dan DeSloover has graciously volunteered to give the presentation this month.
He plans to present on Sed, Grep, RegEx, & possibly Awk three of the most powerful
command line tools available to every version of Linux and just about every
version of Unix. He will also cover how RegEx can be used with these three
tools to make them that much more powerful.


If anyone would like to volunteer to give a presentation at an upcoming meeting
please contact me ASAP.


Keep in mind that from month to month our meeting room may change so always
make sure to look at the announcement for what room we are going to be in. I have
been assured that all of the rooms have projectors, and a wireless network is available.

I look forward to seeing everyone at the meeting on Tuesday, for the mean time have a
save and happy week.

-Ron
MonroeLUG President







From set at pobox.com  Mon Jun 25 22:49:47 2007
From: set at pobox.com (Paul)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 22:49:47 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070626024947.GD5759@squish.home.loc>

Joseph Vartanian <jvartanian at gmail.com>, on Mon Jun 25, 2007 [06:45:36 PM] said:
> I'm sure at more than a few of you on this list are DIY geeks, so this
> is for you.  What tools would you want in your toolbox?  Types of
> tools, specific products, specific brand names...whatever.  What tools
> do you think are important in a good DIY geek toolbox?
> 
> I'm really asking because I want to see if I can get any good ideas
> from you for my own toolbox that I'm building (I'm feed up with my
> lousy tools), but I also figure others would find it useful.  If you
> know of a good place to get these tools, online or brick and mortar,
> that would be cool too.
> 
> I know you may be thinking this all depends on exactly what type of
> projects you're working on.  Since I'm not really interested in just
> one specific thing, lets assume that you're going to be working on a
> little bit of everything.
> 
> I'll start out with a really easy one myself...a Dremel 400 Series
> rotary tool.  I'll leave the more difficult ones up to you guys.
> 
> -Joseph

	Hi;

	Ill just lend you this generic advice. Dont buy cheap tools.
Cheap tools tend to be clunkier, less precise, prone to premature failure
and dulling. Cheap tools can make a difficult job impossible, and they
will fail when you need them most, or result in sloppy work, or collateral
dammage (either to you, or what you are working on).
	Good quality tools will last longer, and give better performance
thoughout their life. I havent always followed this maxim (and come
to regret it in more than one instance), but I have never regretted
aquiring a good quality tool.

Paul
set at pobox.com


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Mon Jun 25 23:43:36 2007
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 23:43:36 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1182829416.24896.49.camel@plumber.site>

On Mon, 2007-06-25 at 18:45 -0400, Joseph Vartanian wrote:
> I'm sure at more than a few of you on this list are DIY geeks, so this
> is for you.  What tools would you want in your toolbox?  Types of
> tools, specific products, specific brand names...whatever.  What tools
> do you think are important in a good DIY geek toolbox?
> 
> I'm really asking because I want to see if I can get any good ideas
> from you for my own toolbox that I'm building (I'm feed up with my
> lousy tools), but I also figure others would find it useful.  If you
> know of a good place to get these tools, online or brick and mortar,
> that would be cool too.
> 
> I know you may be thinking this all depends on exactly what type of
> projects you're working on.  Since I'm not really interested in just
> one specific thing, lets assume that you're going to be working on a
> little bit of everything.
> 
> I'll start out with a really easy one myself...a Dremel 400 Series
> rotary tool.  I'll leave the more difficult ones up to you guys.

	I don't know about the geek part, but I'll throw in my $0.02 for the
tools. I'll second the vote for Craftsman hand tools. I have quite a few
in my bucket. I do add to that with hand tools from Klein, Crescent,
Channelock, Rigid. Most of these can be had at Sears and Grainger. Some
can only be had at wholesalers. I must second the vote for good quality
tools, power and hand. Others have gone into detail on what hand tools,
I'll second that. For power tools I prefer Porter Cable, Hilti, Bosch,
Rigid, Reed, etc. It depends on what, for example I would never buy a
Rigid drill but I wouldn't buy threaders from anyone else. For hammer
drills Hilti is tops but I wouldn't even consider buying cordless tools
from them. I get these from Marsh Power Tools, Hilti, Fasteners, Brock
Tool to name a few.
	I hope this helps.

Best Regards,
	
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From micorral at comcast.net  Tue Jun 26 01:12:39 2007
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 01:12:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.0.99.0706260108440.2274@banana.sluggo.net>

2007-06-25, Monsieur Joseph Vartanian a ecrit:
> What tools do you think are important in a good DIY geek toolbox?

A DIY geek tool? I believe this is the very definition of that:
http://www.fleshlight.com/main/index.php

Michael


From god_of_lemmings at usol.com  Tue Jun 26 06:45:43 2007
From: god_of_lemmings at usol.com (God of Lemmings)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 06:45:43 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Fwd:  OT: DIY Geek Tools
Message-ID: <7b32e6d597b7b13cd0d643ac8f06a139@usol.com>



Begin forwarded message:

> From: Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net>
> Date: June 25, 2007 9:44:22 PM EST
> To: "MDLUG's Main discussion list" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
> Reply-To: "MDLUG's Main discussion list" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>
> Joseph Vartanian wrote:+
>> I'm sure at more than a few of you on this list are DIY geeks, so this
>> is for you.  What tools would you want in your toolbox?  Types of
>> tools, specific products, specific brand names...whatever.  What tools
>> do you think are important in a good DIY geek toolbox?
>>
>> I'm really asking because I want to see if I can get any good ideas
>> from you for my own toolbox that I'm building (I'm feed up with my
>> lousy tools), but I also figure others would find it useful.  If you
>> know of a good place to get these tools, online or brick and mortar,
>> that would be cool too.
>>
>> I know you may be thinking this all depends on exactly what type of
>> projects you're working on.  Since I'm not really interested in just
>> one specific thing, lets assume that you're going to be working on a
>> little bit of everything.
>>
>> I'll start out with a really easy one myself...a Dremel 400 Series
>> rotary tool.  I'll leave the more difficult ones up to you guys.
>>
>
> Money spent on good tools is never wasted.  --The Tao of Phoenix.
>
> Brand.  It is difficult to go wrong with Craftsman hand tools.  I 
> prefer
> them in my tool box.  Stanly is also good.

In general this boils down to - buy any tool with lifetime coverage. If 
it doesn't say lifetime on the
tool itself. Don't bother unless you're particular enough to save the 
receipt and packaging for years.

> A good general tool box should have.
>
> Hammers, claw and ball peen of about 12 oz minimum.  Additional hammers
> that are useful are a small sledge, a rubber mallet.  A dead blow 
> hammer.

I would recommend a large craftsman framing hammer as well.
>
> Screwdrivers.  No geek can live without them.  While you can buy manual
> screwdrivers of every kind I prefer a single grip with interchangeable
> tips.  It saves a lot of space in the toolbox.  My set of driver tips
> take a hell of a lot less space than it would with a handle for each as
> well.  You cannot go wrong if you have one power tool and that is a
> power screw driver.

You should get not only a set of screwdrivers and driver tips for 
whatever you will drive them with,
you will also want to make certain that your collection includes extra 
long screwdrivers of various
sizes; as exchangeable tips can't deal with everything.  Don't forget a 
precision screwdriver set
for smaller things as well.

You will also want a set of torx drivers/bits, from normal down to 
precision. This will cover the odd
laptop and printer case.

>
> Pliers.  For geek work you cannot go wrong with a good set of micro
> pliers.  They will include wire cutters, end cutters, long needle nose,
> flat jaw and a curved jaw at larger versions of the small pliers, and
> vice grips are never a bad thing to have.  I would call at least one
> pair of vice grips basic.  Full sized pliers would be the classic slip
> joint and channel locks.  If you are buying Craftsman a set of the
> robogrip pliers replace any slip jaw set.

>
> Wrenches.  At minimum a crescent wrench.  I do not like adjustable
> wrenches.  I prefer combination wrenches in the exact size I need.  I
> have many wrenches.  Sockets are also a good to have.  At least a set 
> of
> 1/4 drive sockets.  Also available now are ratchet wrenches that 
> combine
> the function of the socket and wrench.  I would look into those.

In the very least, if you intend to do any work on your own car, you 
will want to get both
1/4 and 3/8 sockets, and a set of open end/box end wrenches. About 
80-100 pieces should do.
Do remember to get lifetime tools for this in particular, because these 
will almost definitely
become damaged over time. In most cases, a crescent wrench just wont do.

an RJ11-RJ45 crimper is a must, also, a box of plugs and a roll of 
cable.

oh, and a good sized battery operated power drill.


>
> Saws.  A hack saw and a good backsaw are geek minimums.  Saws, like
> hammers, come in more flavors than ice cream.  Everyone has their 
> favorites.
>
> Geek Specials.  That would be wire strippers, soldering tools, cable
> making tools.  Each as you need it.  My box has a basic circuit tester,
> a soldering iron, cable crimper and strippers.  An Ethernet cable
> tester. a computer PS tester.
>
> Things you thought you would never need.  Wood chisels. cold chisels
> Putty knives, clamps (you cannot have too many clamps) wonder bar,
> cordless drill, combination square and a quick square, level, more as I
> think of it.
>
> I prefer the Stylus Dremel tool myself.  Nice tool all around,
>
> And, I am barely touching on power tools.
>
> -- 
> Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.
>
> Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
> Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
> The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 5796 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070626/8a6d497b/attachment.bin>

From radkins at impelind.com  Tue Jun 26 08:21:32 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 08:21:32 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <20070626024947.GD5759@squish.home.loc>
References: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070626024947.GD5759@squish.home.loc>
Message-ID: <468104CC.70108@impelind.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070626/6ac8ee00/attachment.html>

From tmorris at ugs.com  Tue Jun 26 08:33:04 2007
From: tmorris at ugs.com (Morris, Tim)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 07:33:04 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <468104CC.70108@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E203124346@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>

C'Mon people! I thought this was a DIY GEEK toolkit??? Why has nobody
mention the most important DIY GEEK tool of them all? 
 
THE DREMEL !!!!
 
You never know when you might have to turn that old SGI O2 case into a
mini-PC!!
 
--  Tim Morris - UGS PLM Software
 

________________________________

From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Robert Adkins
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 8:22 AM
To: Paul; mdlug at mdlug.org
Subject: Re: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools


Paul said the following on 6/25/2007 10:49 PM: 

	Joseph Vartanian <jvartanian at gmail.com>
<mailto:jvartanian at gmail.com> , on Mon Jun 25, 2007 [06:45:36 PM] said:
	  

		I'm sure at more than a few of you on this list are DIY
geeks, so this
		is for you.  What tools would you want in your toolbox?
Types of
		tools, specific products, specific brand
names...whatever.  What tools
		do you think are important in a good DIY geek toolbox?
		
		I'm really asking because I want to see if I can get any
good ideas
		from you for my own toolbox that I'm building (I'm feed
up with my
		lousy tools), but I also figure others would find it
useful.  If you
		know of a good place to get these tools, online or brick
and mortar,
		that would be cool too.
		
		I know you may be thinking this all depends on exactly
what type of
		projects you're working on.  Since I'm not really
interested in just
		one specific thing, lets assume that you're going to be
working on a
		little bit of everything.
		
		I'll start out with a really easy one myself...a Dremel
400 Series
		rotary tool.  I'll leave the more difficult ones up to
you guys.
		
		-Joseph
		    

	
		Hi;
	
		Ill just lend you this generic advice. Dont buy cheap
tools.
	Cheap tools tend to be clunkier, less precise, prone to
premature failure
	and dulling. Cheap tools can make a difficult job impossible,
and they
	will fail when you need them most, or result in sloppy work, or
collateral
	dammage (either to you, or what you are working on).
		Good quality tools will last longer, and give better
performance
	thoughout their life. I havent always followed this maxim (and
come
	to regret it in more than one instance), but I have never
regretted
	aquiring a good quality tool.
	
	Paul
	set at pobox.com
	_______________________________________________
	
	  

    Yep, don't buy cheap tools.

    Get a Reciprocating Saw, also known as a "Saws All". (Because it
really saws all things.) This helped me tear out the old Galvanized
plumbing in no time flat, when I replumbed the house.

    Air Compressor, get a good one, Dewalt and Porter-Cable are two
compressors made in the US, from some domestic and foreign made
components. They aren't cheap and they also tend to have the largest
number of options, which you might not believe you need, until you start
using it. These are awesome with Nailguns.

    Circular Saw.

    Power Drill/Driver, these have "racheting" gears that control how
fast or how much torque is applied to the tool. This is incredibly
useful for fastening things together with minimal stripping of fastener
heads.

    A really good tape measure.

    Safety Glasses and Ear Plugs. Don't start work without them.

    Leather work gloves, very important if working with wood or doing
demolition. Splinters are terrible to deal with.

    Sliding Compound Miter Saw, this is an indispensable piece of
equipment. I have used mine almost as much as my hammer.

    That's all for now.

    -Rob

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070626/d3ea1d2d/attachment.html>

From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Tue Jun 26 10:14:01 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 10:14:01 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706260714o356d22bbi90cede8eef7a43e8@mail.gmail.com>

I think we're getting a little carried away here.  A geek tool kit
should be based on the tools you need most, not what you can fit in a
large utility truck.  I have a small toolkit and a couple of CDs I
carry around for most PC and network fixes.  I also have a 300 piece
Craftsman set with some additions and a large Jensen electronics tools
kit (www.stanleysupplyservices.com/category.aspx?id=348).  I used to
carry this stuff in my car wherever I went but I found that I rarely
used most of it and the weight probably reduced gas mileage.  It was a
lot easier to make up a small kit to keep with me and have other sets
and power tools available for larger jobs.

The Jensen kit was very expensive and had a lifetime warranty.  But
later I found the same tools elsewhere for a lot cheaper and minimal
warranty.  I realized that the added cost of a lifetime warranty was
more than a second set of tools so now I buy the cheapest stuff
available.  If a lifetime warranty tool breaks you still have work
without it until it gets replaced.  If you have 2-3 cheap tool kits
you always have an immediately available backup.

Other specialty tools and vendors I find useful are:
Multi/security bit set.  Example:  www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/2MU81

A variable speed hammer drill with selectable hammering (good for
drilling, driving screws, and putting holes in concrete).  I have a
Makita:  www.makita.com/menu.php?pg=product_cat&tag=con_hammerDrill

Vendors I've used:
www.techni-tool.com
www.circuitspecialists.com
www.grainger.com
www.mcmelectronics.com


From danno at umich.edu  Tue Jun 26 10:56:36 2007
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 10:56:36 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070626145636.GA59059@maniac.deathstar.org>

Nobody's mentioned a leatherman.  Your basic pocket toolbox.

I have a real leatherman brand, which i like, but i would recommend
shopping around.  Gerber definitely has a good line.  

I also/alternately recommend a good swiss army knife.  I like the
victorinox "deluxe tinker" which has scissors and pliers.  Wenger
has an equivalent model with the same tools.  Wenger knives have
slip-joint pliers, which is incredibly cool, but they are noticeably
wider profile than the victorinox pliers so it's hard to use them 
to reach into really tight little spots.  For instance, I couldn't
pull a jumper off a hard disk with the wengers.  

Victorinox has a "cybertool" too which i've not looked at very hard,
but the one i see on the web site looks awfully big for a "pocket" knife.

Also, get a good flashlight.  Maglites are well-made but they were very
slow to the LED party.  I like my arc flashlight arc-ls but it's not
made any more.  candlepower forums is the place to research flashlights.

Thinkgeek has an interesting tool section.  milestek is a good source
for wiring tools & supplies.

Finally, you need one of these:
 http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/tools/8ace/

On Mon, Jun 25, 2007 at 06:45:36PM -0400, Joseph Vartanian wrote:
> I'm sure at more than a few of you on this list are DIY geeks, so this
> is for you.  What tools would you want in your toolbox?  Types of
> tools, specific products, specific brand names...whatever.  What tools
> do you think are important in a good DIY geek toolbox?
> 
> I'm really asking because I want to see if I can get any good ideas
> from you for my own toolbox that I'm building (I'm feed up with my
> lousy tools), but I also figure others would find it useful.  If you
> know of a good place to get these tools, online or brick and mortar,
> that would be cool too.
> 
> I know you may be thinking this all depends on exactly what type of
> projects you're working on.  Since I'm not really interested in just
> one specific thing, lets assume that you're going to be working on a
> little bit of everything.
> 
> I'll start out with a really easy one myself...a Dremel 400 Series
> rotary tool.  I'll leave the more difficult ones up to you guys.
> 
> -Joseph
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From mdlug2 at arb.net  Tue Jun 26 11:07:12 2007
From: mdlug2 at arb.net (Dave Arbogast)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 11:07:12 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <20070626145636.GA59059@maniac.deathstar.org>
References: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070626145636.GA59059@maniac.deathstar.org>
Message-ID: <46812BA0.4000407@arb.net>

I used to have a leatherman in my computer bag.. flew to Stuttgart 
several times in 04 - 05 and D. Homeless Security never noticed it... 
then I tried to board a short hop from Stuttgart to Milan Italy and the 
German's noticed it. I was in shock because I had completely forgot 
about it and the big guys with guns were standing around me speaking 
German... one of them left w/o explanation - the other were obviously 
waiting for him. When he returned with a large envelope, he said if I 
put a German address on it, they would mail it for me!!! FREE !!!

-dave

Dan Pritts wrote:

>Nobody's mentioned a leatherman.  Your basic pocket toolbox.
>
>I have a real leatherman brand, which i like, but i would recommend
>shopping around.  Gerber definitely has a good line.  
>
>I also/alternately recommend a good swiss army knife.  I like the
>victorinox "deluxe tinker" which has scissors and pliers.  Wenger
>has an equivalent model with the same tools.  Wenger knives have
>slip-joint pliers, which is incredibly cool, but they are noticeably
>wider profile than the victorinox pliers so it's hard to use them 
>to reach into really tight little spots.  For instance, I couldn't
>pull a jumper off a hard disk with the wengers.  
>
>Victorinox has a "cybertool" too which i've not looked at very hard,
>but the one i see on the web site looks awfully big for a "pocket" knife.
>
>Also, get a good flashlight.  Maglites are well-made but they were very
>slow to the LED party.  I like my arc flashlight arc-ls but it's not
>made any more.  candlepower forums is the place to research flashlights.
>
>Thinkgeek has an interesting tool section.  milestek is a good source
>for wiring tools & supplies.
>
>Finally, you need one of these:
> http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/tools/8ace/
>
>On Mon, Jun 25, 2007 at 06:45:36PM -0400, Joseph Vartanian wrote:
>  
>
>>I'm sure at more than a few of you on this list are DIY geeks, so this
>>is for you.  What tools would you want in your toolbox?  Types of
>>tools, specific products, specific brand names...whatever.  What tools
>>do you think are important in a good DIY geek toolbox?
>>
>>I'm really asking because I want to see if I can get any good ideas
>>from you for my own toolbox that I'm building (I'm feed up with my
>>lousy tools), but I also figure others would find it useful.  If you
>>know of a good place to get these tools, online or brick and mortar,
>>that would be cool too.
>>
>>I know you may be thinking this all depends on exactly what type of
>>projects you're working on.  Since I'm not really interested in just
>>one specific thing, lets assume that you're going to be working on a
>>little bit of everything.
>>
>>I'll start out with a really easy one myself...a Dremel 400 Series
>>rotary tool.  I'll leave the more difficult ones up to you guys.
>>
>>-Joseph
>>_______________________________________________
>>mdlug mailing list
>>mdlug at mdlug.org
>>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>>    
>>
>
>danno
>--
>dan pritts
>danno at umich.edu
>734-929-9770
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>  
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070626/0c8262e8/attachment.html>

From tesral at comcast.net  Tue Jun 26 11:57:00 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 11:57:00 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90706260714o356d22bbi90cede8eef7a43e8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90706260714o356d22bbi90cede8eef7a43e8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4681374C.4020506@comcast.net>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> I think we're getting a little carried away here.  A geek tool kit
> should be based on the tools you need most, not what you can fit in a
> large utility truck.  I have a small toolkit and a couple of CDs I
> carry around for most PC and network fixes.  I also have a 300 piece
> Craftsman set with some additions and a large Jensen electronics tools
> kit (www.stanleysupplyservices.com/category.aspx?id=348).  I used to
> carry this stuff in my car wherever I went but I found that I rarely
> used most of it and the weight probably reduced gas mileage.  It was a
> lot easier to make up a small kit to keep with me and have other sets
> and power tools available for larger jobs.
>
> The Jensen kit was very expensive and had a lifetime warranty.  But
> later I found the same tools elsewhere for a lot cheaper and minimal
> warranty.  I realized that the added cost of a lifetime warranty was
> more than a second set of tools so now I buy the cheapest stuff
> available.  If a lifetime warranty tool breaks you still have work
> without it until it gets replaced.  If you have 2-3 cheap tool kits
> you always have an immediately available backup.
>   

That is why I recommend Craftsman over all over lift time choices. 
Craftsman is a third the price of Mac and Snap-on and Sears stores are
common as weeds.  You walk in "it's broken", they give you another. 
That simple.  It doesn't matter why even.  My son bend my ultra fine
needle nose pliers trying to do heavy plier jobs with them.  I chewed
out son as to proper tool usage and took the abused pliers to Sears. 
Walked out with new pliers, no cost.

Second thing, I have had to do it twice in 49 years.  They are GOOD
tools, they don't break.  I was given a cheap set of JC Penny sockets. 
I broke those bastards right and left.  Warranty? What warranty.  I have
never broken a Craftsman socket, and I use tools hard.

Cheap tools break, frequently.  Good tools are lifetime replaceable, and
don't break.  Do the math.  OK, I pay twice as much for a Craftsman tool
than some no name at Harbor Freight.  How many times will I replace the
Harbor Freight tool?  How many times will I replace the Craftsman?

BTW, I have two copies of every wrench.  I prefer combination wrenches. 
That is box end and open end on one tool.  Why two?  I cannot count the
number of times I have had to turn one nut and hold a second in place
while turning the first.  So I have two sets of English and metric wrenches.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From ebradley01 at wowway.com  Tue Jun 26 12:07:28 2007
From: ebradley01 at wowway.com (ebradley01 at wowway.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:07:28 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Surface computing...
Message-ID: <20070626160236.M77530@wowway.com>

A caveat before we begin:

The following video clip (link below) portrays a technology that is being
developed (though not necessarily discovered/pioneered) by Microsoft.  I just
wanted to give everyone fair warning before posting a link that showcases
'They Who Must Not Be Named' in a good light.  ;)


Since we are all self-proclaimed 'geeks' and/or lovers of technology, I
thought this worth sharing...it looks wicked-awesome.  :D

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid932579976?bclid=932553050


evan

--
"The road of life is rocky, and you may stumble too.  So while you point your
finger; someone else is judging you."  --Bob Marley



From mdlug2 at arb.net  Tue Jun 26 12:13:22 2007
From: mdlug2 at arb.net (Dave Arbogast)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:13:22 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <4681374C.4020506@comcast.net>
References: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>	<b02c40e90706260714o356d22bbi90cede8eef7a43e8@mail.gmail.com>
	<4681374C.4020506@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <46813B22.7090101@arb.net>



Garry Stahl wrote:

> That is why I recommend Craftsman over all over lift time choices.
>
>Craftsman is a third the price of Mac and Snap-on and Sears stores are
>common as weeds.  You walk in "it's broken", they give you another. 
>That simple.  It doesn't matter why even.  My son bend my ultra fine
>needle nose pliers trying to do heavy plier jobs with them.  I chewed
>out son as to proper tool usage and took the abused pliers to Sears. 
>Walked out with new pliers, no cost.
>
>Second thing, I have had to do it twice in 49 years.  They are GOOD
>tools, they don't break.  I was given a cheap set of JC Penny sockets. 
>I broke those bastards right and left.  Warranty? What warranty.  I have
>never broken a Craftsman socket, and I use tools hard.
>
>Cheap tools break, frequently.  Good tools are lifetime replaceable, and
>don't break.  Do the math.  OK, I pay twice as much for a Craftsman tool
>than some no name at Harbor Freight.  How many times will I replace the
>Harbor Freight tool?  How many times will I replace the Craftsman?
>
>BTW, I have two copies of every wrench.  I prefer combination wrenches. 
>That is box end and open end on one tool.  Why two?  I cannot count the
>number of times I have had to turn one nut and hold a second in place
>while turning the first.  So I have two sets of English and metric wrenches.
>  
>
I buy Craftsman too, but you have to start watching them closely and 
complaining.... First it was the Craftsman tin snips - sold as lifetime 
warranty as "all Craftsman hand tools", but when you try to replace them 
they give you "Sears" band or refund your money from the last time they 
sold them.. next, wire strippers, same thing. Now, Craftsman tape 
measures of the Yellow and black color are replaced with "Craftsman" Red 
and Black with a simple 1 year replacement warranty. Beyond 1 year, your 
Craftsman tape measure is like any other w/o a warranty... I suspect the 
trend will continue until people start buying Snap-On or Mac....
-dave


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Tue Jun 26 12:15:05 2007
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:15:05 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <4681374C.4020506@comcast.net>
References: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90706260714o356d22bbi90cede8eef7a43e8@mail.gmail.com>
	<4681374C.4020506@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1182874505.6788.0.camel@plumber.site>

On Tue, 2007-06-26 at 11:57 -0400, Garry Stahl wrote:
> Jeff Hanson wrote:
> > I think we're getting a little carried away here.  A geek tool kit
> > should be based on the tools you need most, not what you can fit in a
> > large utility truck.  I have a small toolkit and a couple of CDs I
> > carry around for most PC and network fixes.  I also have a 300 piece
> > Craftsman set with some additions and a large Jensen electronics tools
> > kit (www.stanleysupplyservices.com/category.aspx?id=348).  I used to
> > carry this stuff in my car wherever I went but I found that I rarely
> > used most of it and the weight probably reduced gas mileage.  It was a
> > lot easier to make up a small kit to keep with me and have other sets
> > and power tools available for larger jobs.
> >
> > The Jensen kit was very expensive and had a lifetime warranty.  But
> > later I found the same tools elsewhere for a lot cheaper and minimal
> > warranty.  I realized that the added cost of a lifetime warranty was
> > more than a second set of tools so now I buy the cheapest stuff
> > available.  If a lifetime warranty tool breaks you still have work
> > without it until it gets replaced.  If you have 2-3 cheap tool kits
> > you always have an immediately available backup.
> >   
> 
> That is why I recommend Craftsman over all over lift time choices. 
> Craftsman is a third the price of Mac and Snap-on and Sears stores are
> common as weeds.  You walk in "it's broken", they give you another. 
> That simple.  It doesn't matter why even.  My son bend my ultra fine
> needle nose pliers trying to do heavy plier jobs with them.  I chewed
> out son as to proper tool usage and took the abused pliers to Sears. 
> Walked out with new pliers, no cost.
> 
> Second thing, I have had to do it twice in 49 years.  They are GOOD
> tools, they don't break.  I was given a cheap set of JC Penny sockets. 
> I broke those bastards right and left.  Warranty? What warranty.  I have
> never broken a Craftsman socket, and I use tools hard.
> 
> Cheap tools break, frequently.  Good tools are lifetime replaceable, and
> don't break.  Do the math.  OK, I pay twice as much for a Craftsman tool
> than some no name at Harbor Freight.  How many times will I replace the
> Harbor Freight tool?  How many times will I replace the Craftsman?
> 
> BTW, I have two copies of every wrench.  I prefer combination wrenches. 
> That is box end and open end on one tool.  Why two?  I cannot count the
> number of times I have had to turn one nut and hold a second in place
> while turning the first.  So I have two sets of English and metric wrenches.

	I second everything Gary said w/o reservation.
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Tue Jun 26 12:15:36 2007
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:15:36 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Surface computing...
In-Reply-To: <20070626160236.M77530@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <C2A6B3E8.3AEB8%GregWojtak@quickenloans.com>

"We've got a blue-tabletop... can you reboot the coffee table?"


On 6/26/07 12:07 PM, "ebradley01 at wowway.com" <ebradley01 at wowway.com> wrote:

> http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid932579976?bclid=932553050


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Tue Jun 26 12:27:11 2007
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 09:27:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Surface computing...
In-Reply-To: <20070626160236.M77530@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <77905.95687.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I saw this. BUT this is being driven by Microsoft. 

ebradley01 at wowway.com wrote:  A caveat before we begin:

The following video clip (link below) portrays a technology that is being
developed (though not necessarily discovered/pioneered) by Microsoft. I just
wanted to give everyone fair warning before posting a link that showcases
'They Who Must Not Be Named' in a good light. ;)


Since we are all self-proclaimed 'geeks' and/or lovers of technology, I
thought this worth sharing...it looks wicked-awesome. :D

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid932579976?bclid=932553050


evan

--
"The road of life is rocky, and you may stumble too. So while you point your
finger; someone else is judging you." --Bob Marley

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


       
---------------------------------
Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070626/31de3761/attachment.html>

From admin at linuxtechdaily.com  Tue Jun 26 12:44:50 2007
From: admin at linuxtechdaily.com (Rich Hughes)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:44:50 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Channel vendors skeptical about Vista sales figures
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90706251212h66cb915cpda5ec3ff21e8a686@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e90706251212h66cb915cpda5ec3ff21e8a686@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46814282.4030608@linuxtechdaily.com>

Hello, I am new to the list.

I manage a retail store computer store, and I can verify that people 
hate vista. It helps us to move systems with XP, and has been a huge 
help in getting me the authority to sell Linux systems in our retail 
stores. I hear anywhere from 5-10 negative comments about vista every 
day. It is shocking, but really not considering the sub-par product 
vista is. The sad thing is that XP is now considered a solid system by 
people.

I have yet to sell a Vista desktop system. It is such a great 
opportunity for linux, there are good times ahead.

Thanks,
Rich


Jeff Hanson wrote:
> channel.tomshardware.com/2007/06/25/channel_skeptical_about_vista_claims/
>
> You'd think that 40-million units sold would represent a runaway hit.
> But while Microsoft is calling Vista a huge win, some folks in the
> channel are not completely sold on that assessment.
>
> "Microsoft's launch of Vista has been as successful as the U.S.
> finding WMDs in Iraq," Herb Criscito, vice president for Buy.com,
> said. "We are finding little to no demand for the new operating
> system. Lack of support, drivers and compatibility issues have been
> major roadblocks deterring customers to upgrade."
>
> Yet, Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates recently said 40 million units were
> sold in the first 100 days of the operating system's release (while
> almost 75% of the licenses were for the Premium edition) and that the
> Vista adoption rate has been twice as fast as the adoption of Windows
> XP.
>
> But so far, the channel is pausing to think about the "non-OEM"
> recommendation options for Vista. According to resellers polled, the
> overwhelming response from almost every customer segment is to wait.
> Clients by and large are still ordering machines with XP, or if they
> get them with Vista, are rebuilding an image with XP and rolling it
> out from there.
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>   




From danno at umich.edu  Tue Jun 26 13:02:07 2007
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 13:02:07 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <4681374C.4020506@comcast.net>
References: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90706260714o356d22bbi90cede8eef7a43e8@mail.gmail.com>
	<4681374C.4020506@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20070626170206.GC71664@maniac.deathstar.org>

On Tue, Jun 26, 2007 at 11:57:00AM -0400, Garry Stahl wrote:
> 
> That is why I recommend Craftsman over all over lift time choices. 
> Craftsman is a third the price of Mac and Snap-on and Sears stores are
> common as weeds.  You walk in "it's broken", they give you another. 

...in theory.  I walked into sears with a broken hole punch and
they didn't have it in stock and didn't give me the option of
ordering a replacement, just said "sorry".

Probably I should have asked for a manager but sheesh.

> BTW, I have two copies of every wrench.  I prefer combination wrenches. 
> That is box end and open end on one tool.  Why two?  I cannot count the
> number of times I have had to turn one nut and hold a second in place
> while turning the first.  So I have two sets of English and metric wrenches.

I got a set of these for christmas:  

  http://www.gearwrench.com/catalog/wrenches/ratcheting/combination/

They don't fit everywhere that a standard box wrench does, but they
are pretty slim compared to other racheting box wrenches i've used,
and seem very well made.

I think there is a craftsman version (i think just has a sears label
on the same tool) but it was significantly more money.

They do have a lifetime warranty for consumer use although it's not
backed up by sears.

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From tesral at comcast.net  Tue Jun 26 13:44:34 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 13:44:34 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Channel vendors skeptical about Vista sales figures
In-Reply-To: <46814282.4030608@linuxtechdaily.com>
References: <b02c40e90706251212h66cb915cpda5ec3ff21e8a686@mail.gmail.com>
	<46814282.4030608@linuxtechdaily.com>
Message-ID: <46815082.1010008@comcast.net>

Rich Hughes wrote:
> Hello, I am new to the list.
>
> I manage a retail store computer store, and I can verify that people 
> hate vista. It helps us to move systems with XP, and has been a huge 
> help in getting me the authority to sell Linux systems in our retail 
> stores. I hear anywhere from 5-10 negative comments about vista every 
> day. It is shocking, but really not considering the sub-par product 
> vista is. The sad thing is that XP is now considered a solid system by 
> people.
>   

Which store?  I like places that have people that understand.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From radkins at impelind.com  Tue Jun 26 13:59:52 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 13:59:52 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Surface computing...
In-Reply-To: <20070626160236.M77530@wowway.com>
References: <20070626160236.M77530@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <46815418.5000606@impelind.com>

ebradley01 at wowway.com said the following on 6/26/2007 12:07 PM:
> A caveat before we begin:
>
> The following video clip (link below) portrays a technology that is being
> developed (though not necessarily discovered/pioneered) by Microsoft.  I just
> wanted to give everyone fair warning before posting a link that showcases
> 'They Who Must Not Be Named' in a good light.  ;)
>
>
> Since we are all self-proclaimed 'geeks' and/or lovers of technology, I
> thought this worth sharing...it looks wicked-awesome.  :D
>
> http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid932579976?bclid=932553050
>
>
> evan

    I've seen it, it is a nice gimmick.

    Honestly, that's how I see it staying. Like those "email 
appliances". Sure, some people still use them, but they are few and far 
between.

    I would elaborate, I just have other things to do right now.
   
    -Rob


From tesral at comcast.net  Tue Jun 26 14:17:36 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 14:17:36 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <20070626145636.GA59059@maniac.deathstar.org>
References: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070626145636.GA59059@maniac.deathstar.org>
Message-ID: <46815840.9070004@comcast.net>

Dan Pritts wrote:
> Nobody's mentioned a leatherman.  Your basic pocket toolbox.
>
> I have a real leatherman brand, which i like, but i would recommend
> shopping around.  Gerber definitely has a good line.  
>   

I have three.  I consider the leatherman the tool box of last resort. 
Why would I mention a leatherman?  Like, it goes where I go.


> Also, get a good flashlight.  Maglites are well-made but they were very
> slow to the LED party.  I like my arc flashlight arc-ls but it's not
> made any more.  candlepower forums is the place to research flashlights.
>   

There is an affordable magllite LED conversion kit at Micorcenter.





-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Tue Jun 26 14:16:55 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 14:16:55 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Surface computing...
In-Reply-To: <20070626160236.M77530@wowway.com>
References: <20070626160236.M77530@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706261116o4ca30582h7d57e6ab588fe1bd@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/26/07, ebradley01 at wowway.com <ebradley01 at wowway.com> wrote:
> The following video clip (link below) portrays a technology that is being
> developed (though not necessarily discovered/pioneered) by Microsoft.  I just
> wanted to give everyone fair warning before posting a link that showcases
> 'They Who Must Not Be Named' in a good light.  ;)

Its pretty but not really innovative.  The primary advancement I see
is the multiple pointer support.  Currently with Windows and X,
simultaneous input from multiple pointing devices is aggregated.  They
need to be handled separately and the window manager needs to be able
to respond differently when they are used together on the same window.
 These are probably filed under secret patents 236 and 237.


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Tue Jun 26 14:41:58 2007
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 11:41:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Surface computing...
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90706261116o4ca30582h7d57e6ab588fe1bd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <488549.47366.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

It is applying exsting technology.
   
  

Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com> wrote:
  On 6/26/07, ebradley01 at wowway.com wrote:
> The following video clip (link below) portrays a technology that is being
> developed (though not necessarily discovered/pioneered) by Microsoft. I just
> wanted to give everyone fair warning before posting a link that showcases
> 'They Who Must Not Be Named' in a good light. ;)

Its pretty but not really innovative. The primary advancement I see
is the multiple pointer support. Currently with Windows and X,
simultaneous input from multiple pointing devices is aggregated. They
need to be handled separately and the window manager needs to be able
to respond differently when they are used together on the same window.
These are probably filed under secret patents 236 and 237.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


       
---------------------------------
Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070626/fdf5ae73/attachment.html>

From freemancomputer at yahoo.com  Tue Jun 26 19:00:44 2007
From: freemancomputer at yahoo.com (jack freeman)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 16:00:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel panic
Message-ID: <564977.74961.qm@web55506.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

I am having a prblom with my web server booting. At times when it trys to boot i get a "kernel panic - not syncing: fatal exception in interrupt". When it does boot it has a rather bad habit of locking up. I am running Mandravia 2007.1. Any ideas?

Jack



       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070626/82e7fe1d/attachment.html>

From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Tue Jun 26 19:32:44 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:32:44 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel panic
In-Reply-To: <564977.74961.qm@web55506.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <564977.74961.qm@web55506.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706261632i42e78e8dmda9bdf630195118e@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/26/07, jack freeman <freemancomputer at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I am having a prblom with my web server booting. At times when it trys to
> boot i get a "kernel panic - not syncing: fatal exception in interrupt".
> When it does boot it has a rather bad habit of locking up. I am running
> Mandravia 2007.1. Any ideas?

What is the motherboard model and BIOS version?


From jvartanian at gmail.com  Tue Jun 26 22:49:01 2007
From: jvartanian at gmail.com (Joseph Vartanian)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:49:01 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <20070626145636.GA59059@maniac.deathstar.org>
References: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070626145636.GA59059@maniac.deathstar.org>
Message-ID: <dd889b430706261949l3013963btf26e49967cc6c949@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/26/07, Dan Pritts <danno at umich.edu> wrote:
> Nobody's mentioned a leatherman.  Your basic pocket toolbox.
>
> I have a real leatherman brand, which i like, but i would recommend
> shopping around.  Gerber definitely has a good line.
>
> I also/alternately recommend a good swiss army knife.  I like the
> victorinox "deluxe tinker" which has scissors and pliers.  Wenger
> has an equivalent model with the same tools.  Wenger knives have
> slip-joint pliers, which is incredibly cool, but they are noticeably
> wider profile than the victorinox pliers so it's hard to use them
> to reach into really tight little spots.  For instance, I couldn't
> pull a jumper off a hard disk with the wengers.
>
> Victorinox has a "cybertool" too which i've not looked at very hard,
> but the one i see on the web site looks awfully big for a "pocket" knife.
>
> Also, get a good flashlight.  Maglites are well-made but they were very
> slow to the LED party.  I like my arc flashlight arc-ls but it's not
> made any more.  candlepower forums is the place to research flashlights.
>
> Thinkgeek has an interesting tool section.  milestek is a good source
> for wiring tools & supplies.
>
> Finally, you need one of these:
>  http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/tools/8ace/
>

Leatherman tools are great.  They have to be the best, but I recently
notice a rather nice multitool from another company that I now
want...the Paladin PowerPlay PT-540.  Normally I wouldn't trust
something like this from a company that doesn't specialize in knives,
but Paladin Tools tends to make good stuff.  This is a true geek
multitool.  Other companies take a standard multitool, and stick a
cheap USB flash drive on it.  Paladin actually gave this tool things
like punchdown blades, a wire hook and a terminal lug crimper.
http://www.paladin-tools.com/view_tool.php?id=490

As for the titanium spork, that's already on my wish list...really.
That thing is just too damn cool.

-Joseph


From jvartanian at gmail.com  Tue Jun 26 23:46:13 2007
From: jvartanian at gmail.com (Joseph Vartanian)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 23:46:13 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <4681374C.4020506@comcast.net>
References: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90706260714o356d22bbi90cede8eef7a43e8@mail.gmail.com>
	<4681374C.4020506@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <dd889b430706262046n6661189fv852edaf3ef39bff6@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/26/07, Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:
> Jeff Hanson wrote:
> > I think we're getting a little carried away here.  A geek tool kit
> > should be based on the tools you need most, not what you can fit in a
> > large utility truck.  I have a small toolkit and a couple of CDs I
> > carry around for most PC and network fixes.  I also have a 300 piece
> > Craftsman set with some additions and a large Jensen electronics tools
> > kit (www.stanleysupplyservices.com/category.aspx?id=348).  I used to
> > carry this stuff in my car wherever I went but I found that I rarely
> > used most of it and the weight probably reduced gas mileage.  It was a
> > lot easier to make up a small kit to keep with me and have other sets
> > and power tools available for larger jobs.
> >
> > The Jensen kit was very expensive and had a lifetime warranty.  But
> > later I found the same tools elsewhere for a lot cheaper and minimal
> > warranty.  I realized that the added cost of a lifetime warranty was
> > more than a second set of tools so now I buy the cheapest stuff
> > available.  If a lifetime warranty tool breaks you still have work
> > without it until it gets replaced.  If you have 2-3 cheap tool kits
> > you always have an immediately available backup.
> >
>
> That is why I recommend Craftsman over all over lift time choices.
> Craftsman is a third the price of Mac and Snap-on and Sears stores are
> common as weeds.  You walk in "it's broken", they give you another.
> That simple.  It doesn't matter why even.  My son bend my ultra fine
> needle nose pliers trying to do heavy plier jobs with them.  I chewed
> out son as to proper tool usage and took the abused pliers to Sears.
> Walked out with new pliers, no cost.
>
> Second thing, I have had to do it twice in 49 years.  They are GOOD
> tools, they don't break.  I was given a cheap set of JC Penny sockets.
> I broke those bastards right and left.  Warranty? What warranty.  I have
> never broken a Craftsman socket, and I use tools hard.
>
> Cheap tools break, frequently.  Good tools are lifetime replaceable, and
> don't break.  Do the math.  OK, I pay twice as much for a Craftsman tool
> than some no name at Harbor Freight.  How many times will I replace the
> Harbor Freight tool?  How many times will I replace the Craftsman?
>
> BTW, I have two copies of every wrench.  I prefer combination wrenches.
> That is box end and open end on one tool.  Why two?  I cannot count the
> number of times I have had to turn one nut and hold a second in place
> while turning the first.  So I have two sets of English and metric wrenches.
>

I would say both of you are right in a way.  I'm personally sick of
cheap tools failing when I need them.  It just doesn't seem right when
a screw strips your screwdriver.  It should be the other way around.
At the same time I'm not rich and I don't make my living off my tools,
so I can't justify getting a full set of expensive tools.  I would say
the best approach would be to get the quality stuff on the tools one
needs most (like the titanium spork), and get the cheap stuff for the
things you need less often.

-Joseph


From tesral at comcast.net  Wed Jun 27 00:27:19 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 00:27:19 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
Message-ID: <4681E727.9050003@comcast.net>

Vista only Titles cracked.

<http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6146&Itemid=2>

I wonder how long before someone gets XP to spoof as Vista for the
"Windows Live" stuff?  Frankly, I wonder how much difference there
really is outside of the pretty and the DRM?

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From jvartanian at gmail.com  Wed Jun 27 00:58:32 2007
From: jvartanian at gmail.com (Joseph Vartanian)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 00:58:32 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
In-Reply-To: <4681E727.9050003@comcast.net>
References: <4681E727.9050003@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <dd889b430706262158i69392596p2a96d6490bb148d6@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/27/07, Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:
> Vista only Titles cracked.
>
> <http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6146&Itemid=2>
>
> I wonder how long before someone gets XP to spoof as Vista for the
> "Windows Live" stuff?  Frankly, I wonder how much difference there
> really is outside of the pretty and the DRM?
>

A lot of people have been saying that Vista is just XP with a pretty
new interface.  I've even seen several IT folks at work saying that.
This is wrong.  There are many dramatic changes in Vista under the
hood, but most of them aren't obvious to your typical user.

I haven't had time to really take a good look at Vista yet, but from
what little time I've spent playing with it, it's easy to see that
they changed a hell of a lot of things.  I was really looking more at
how the OS works and not the GUI parts that everyone sees.

Just to get you to maybe believe what I'm saying, think about
this...Why would they need 6 years to develop this OS if all they did
was to add 3D effect to the GUI and some DRM?  I'm not defending (or
bashing) Vista...I'm just pointing out that it's not Windows XP 3D
Edition like most people seem to think.

-Joseph


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Wed Jun 27 01:56:39 2007
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 01:56:39 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
In-Reply-To: <dd889b430706262158i69392596p2a96d6490bb148d6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4681E727.9050003@comcast.net>
	<dd889b430706262158i69392596p2a96d6490bb148d6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380706262256l774e1898v60dc17599527c934@mail.gmail.com>

-- Joseph Vartanian wrote:

> Garry Stahl wrote:

> > Vista-only titles cracked.

> A lot of people have been saying that Vista is just XP with a pretty
> new interface.  I've even seen several IT folks at work saying that.
> This is wrong.  There are many dramatic changes in Vista under the
> hood, but most of them aren't obvious to your typical user.
[...]
> Just to get you to maybe believe what I'm saying, think about
> this...Why would they need 6 years to develop this OS if all they did
> was to add 3D effect to the GUI and some DRM?

Because after nearly four years of development, they scrapped it all
as too tangled to build, let alone maintain-- and started over pretty
much (by all indications) from the Server 2003 codebase.  See
<http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/microsoft/archives/110354.asp> for
Jim Allchin's "I'd buy a Mac" speech from that time.  As I put it
myself at the time, "Microsoft is jettisoning features like furniture
from a blimp with a slow leak."  This turned out to be pretty much the
case.

Also, a LOT of time and effort went into not only the DRM stuff (and,
yes security improvements-- such as they are), but in tweaking and
back-porting the "Aero" interface so it would run
better-than-half-assed on recent Intel integrated-graphics chipsets;
this was demanded by Intel, as it would have otherwise exposed the
sub-par performance of their graphics hardware pretty starkly (Aero
would have been IMPOSSIBLE to use on default Intel hardware before the
revamp).  I can't even BEGIN to imagine how difficult THAT was.

Last, but certainly not least, is the impact of the "permatemps"
decision.  When the long-term-temporary employees won their lawsuit
for back pay and benefits to the tune of $97 million, Bill Gates
canned them ALL in a fit of pique-- a massive amount of knowledge went
with them; for example, Windows 2000 can no longer be built from the
source code, as knowledge of the compiler tweaks needed to do so left
with the permatemps-- some of them had been there for 12 years, and
regular employees had to pick up the slack (where they could).

-- Mikey


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Wed Jun 27 08:32:29 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 08:32:29 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
In-Reply-To: <dd889b430706262158i69392596p2a96d6490bb148d6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DFC@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>


> From: Joseph Vartanian

> A lot of people have been saying that Vista is just XP with a pretty
> new interface.  I've even seen several IT folks at work saying that.
> This is wrong.  There are many dramatic changes in Vista under the
> hood, but most of them aren't obvious to your typical user.

 Can you name some of them? I'm not aware of many beyond the user interface
stuff.

 1. Security changes. Consists almost entirely, from what I can see, of
reinventing 'sudo', badly. ("Those who do not understand UNIX are condemned
to reinvent it - badly." -- Henry Spencer.)

 2. DRM 'enhancements', which we've already discussed:
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html

 3. Nerfing OpenGL. Apparently designed to interfere with cross-platform
games.

 4. "ReadyBoost". Basically a special swap partition that can be put on a
flash drive that has certain characteristics. A mildly interesting hack,
but their time would be better spent making the system less memory-hungry
overall.

 Anything else? I write this as someone with a Vista Home Basic computer
at home. (My wife uses it because she insists on MS Office.) Note that
Home Basic does *not* use Aero, so the *only* changes I would see would
be non-GUI stuff. And the above is all I've seen, aside from the fact that
XP is usable in 1GB of RAM and Vista is astonishingly sluggish.

> Just to get you to maybe believe what I'm saying, think about
> this...Why would they need 6 years to develop this OS if all they did
> was to add 3D effect to the GUI and some DRM?

 As has been pointed out, it's largely because they gave up and started over.
Their codebase is Huge (capital 'H' intended) - *well* over 40 million lines,
just for the operating system. A project that size is nearly unmanageable
without careful design and strict discipline following that design. Neither
of those traits have been much in evidence at MS for quite a while. They do
not maintain good separation of functionality in modules (the word 'incestuous'
comes to mind), and the control flow in Windows operation is exceedingly
complex. For example:
 http://blogs.zdnet.com/threatchaos/?p=311

 Not to mention the fact that developing for Windows is just plain more
complicated than for Linux. I wrote some comments about that here:
 http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/bf055025af897210

 So no, I'm not surprised that there's so little 'there' there in Vista.
What I'm really amazed about is how so few changes suck up so much more
memory.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                                (313) 227-2317
 
 If we teach everybody... habits of skeptical thought, they will probably
 not restrict their skepticism to UFOs... Maybe they'll start asking
 awkward questions about economic, or social, or political, or religious
 institutions. Perhaps they'll challenge the opinions of those in power.
                Then where would we be? - Carl Sagan

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. 


From tmorris at ugs.com  Wed Jun 27 08:37:06 2007
From: tmorris at ugs.com (Morris, Tim)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 07:37:06 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] SUSPECT: RE:  OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <4681374C.4020506@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E203124909@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>

The problem is they break when you're using them, not while they're
sitting on the shelf. It's a pain in the *** to have your tools break
and then have to stop what you're doing and replace them. I've had so
many craftsmen wrenches break while using them (lightly) that I gave up.
These days, if you try to return it to Sears they'll either laugh at you
or give you some cheap taiwan knock-off in exchange. If you're going to
go cheap, go cheapest and buy 2 from harbor freight or something. At
least then you have another on the shelf. I would much rather buy a
Matco or Snap-On. 


--  Tim Morris - UGS PLM Software

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Garry Stahl
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 11:57 AM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> I think we're getting a little carried away here.  A geek tool kit 
> should be based on the tools you need most, not what you can fit in a 
> large utility truck.  I have a small toolkit and a couple of CDs I 
> carry around for most PC and network fixes.  I also have a 300 piece 
> Craftsman set with some additions and a large Jensen electronics tools

> kit (www.stanleysupplyservices.com/category.aspx?id=348).  I used to 
> carry this stuff in my car wherever I went but I found that I rarely 
> used most of it and the weight probably reduced gas mileage.  It was a

> lot easier to make up a small kit to keep with me and have other sets 
> and power tools available for larger jobs.
>
> The Jensen kit was very expensive and had a lifetime warranty.  But 
> later I found the same tools elsewhere for a lot cheaper and minimal 
> warranty.  I realized that the added cost of a lifetime warranty was 
> more than a second set of tools so now I buy the cheapest stuff 
> available.  If a lifetime warranty tool breaks you still have work 
> without it until it gets replaced.  If you have 2-3 cheap tool kits 
> you always have an immediately available backup.
>   

That is why I recommend Craftsman over all over lift time choices. 
Craftsman is a third the price of Mac and Snap-on and Sears stores are
common as weeds.  You walk in "it's broken", they give you another. 
That simple.  It doesn't matter why even.  My son bend my ultra fine
needle nose pliers trying to do heavy plier jobs with them.  I chewed
out son as to proper tool usage and took the abused pliers to Sears. 
Walked out with new pliers, no cost.

Second thing, I have had to do it twice in 49 years.  They are GOOD
tools, they don't break.  I was given a cheap set of JC Penny sockets. 
I broke those bastards right and left.  Warranty? What warranty.  I have
never broken a Craftsman socket, and I use tools hard.

Cheap tools break, frequently.  Good tools are lifetime replaceable, and
don't break.  Do the math.  OK, I pay twice as much for a Craftsman tool
than some no name at Harbor Freight.  How many times will I replace the
Harbor Freight tool?  How many times will I replace the Craftsman?

BTW, I have two copies of every wrench.  I prefer combination wrenches. 
That is box end and open end on one tool.  Why two?  I cannot count the
number of times I have had to turn one nut and hold a second in place
while turning the first.  So I have two sets of English and metric
wrenches.

--
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes Star Trek mort. Viva la Star
Trek admiraetur The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From otakurider at gmail.com  Wed Jun 27 09:10:19 2007
From: otakurider at gmail.com (-)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 09:10:19 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel panic
In-Reply-To: <564977.74961.qm@web55506.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <564977.74961.qm@web55506.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cd5131a50706270610t24e90f9cr2d237f2cb8ba8093@mail.gmail.com>

I had this problem with a system and it turned out to be memory chips not
seated.  I reseated and never had a problem after.

Pat



On 6/26/07, jack freeman <freemancomputer at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>  I am having a prblom with my web server booting. At times when it trys to
> boot i get a "kernel panic - not syncing: fatal exception in interrupt".
> When it does boot it has a rather bad habit of locking up. I am running
> Mandravia 2007.1. Any ideas?
>
> Jack
>
> ------------------------------
> Building a website is a piece of cake.
> Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48251/*http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting/?p=PASSPORTPLUS>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070627/eaba4e7c/attachment.html>

From eaglecoach at wwnet.com  Wed Jun 27 09:19:00 2007
From: eaglecoach at wwnet.com (Robert Meier)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 09:19:00 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] MDLUG usage reminder
Message-ID: <468263C4.mailJ5I1ZRV4M@freehold.wwnet.com>

This is the monthly reminder of
     mdlug List Guidelines.
Please send comments to eaglecoach at wwnet.com
Meetings are monthly (http://www.mdlug.org/meetings/meetings.html).

*Courtesy:*
Do unto others what you would have them do unto you in their place.

See /Emily Postnews/ (http://www.templetons.com/brad/emily.html) and
  /Netiquette Guidelines/ (http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html) for details.

If you find something objectionable or off-topic, please send a courteous
  note offlist to the author (and/or postmaster at mdlug.org) rather than list.
  (The rule is simple, do not be easily annoyed or annoying.)

Please post messages in plain text (rather than html or rich text).
  See http://expita.com/nomime.html for instructions for your browser.

Please remove References: field when starting a new subject.

Please trim your replies so that you only quote the parts you are are
  replying to, rather than the entire original message , and
  prefix with '>'. (Most mail clients do this part automatically.)

Please do not cross-post, and if you feel you must, please direct
  discussion to one list with a reply-to; field

*Lists:*
 mdlug-admin    mdlug administration

 mdlug-newbie   questions/answers with explanation of concepts
                assume the questioner was unaware of the
                man/info/... pages
                initial configuration of ???

 mdlug          ANNOUNCE: announcements only, no discussion

 mdlug          questions/answers using jargon
                assume the questioner has read the man/info/... pages
                technical (e.g. howto, perl scripts)

 mdlug-discuss  politics
                Microsoft-bashing
                my disto can beat up your distro, and other flames
                anything else

*Filtering and Security*
If you lack time or interest to follow some of the topics, ask
 mdlug-newbie for suggestions on filtering mail automatically.

We welcome the many who listen silently, and invite them to post when
 they wish to contribute either questions or answers.

We strip the reply to addresses from the headers of messages before putting
 them in the archives.

Likewise, our archiving software quashes email addresses in the body of
 messages, to make them difficult for spammers to harvest. However they
 will still be human readable so you might want to consider this before
 posting personal email addresses.

Have fun!


From micorral at comcast.net  Wed Jun 27 10:45:59 2007
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 10:45:59 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.4.64.0706271014560.4080@w2zzzp0601.amer.corp.eds.com>

Ingles, Raymond a ecrit:
>> From: Joseph Vartanian
>> A lot of people have been saying that Vista is just XP with a pretty
>> new interface.  I've even seen several IT folks at work saying that.
>> This is wrong.  There are many dramatic changes in Vista under the
>> hood, but most of them aren't obvious to your typical user.
>
> Can you name some of them? I'm not aware of many beyond the user
>interface stuff.

No one hates Microsoft more than me (not even you, Ray!:)), but
Joseph is right that Vista does have some new things besides the GUI
changes that are getting all the attention. One interesting thing is
the new Windows Imaging Format and Windows Deployment Servives, which
allows easier disk imaging and OS deployment than before. Sure, it's
nothing all that new to UNIX (e.g. Solaris' Jumpstart, HP-UX's Ignite,
Red Hat's Kickstart, etc, long ago beat it to the punch), but it's
fairly new to Windows. The way it's usually done now, before Vista, is
to use something like Altiris for mass automated remote OS deployments.
But with Vista that (supposedly) won't be necessary anymore. The new
method also allows modularized image building, so you don't need to
maintain lots of large disk images just for a few changes. I haven't
used all this, but I have heard about it, and for "enterprise"
customers it's probably seen as a good thing.

There are also a bunch of new administrative and diagnostic tools,
stuff the average home user probably doesn't care about but will
likely be of interest to IT personnel. I personally have no desire
to use Vista; I try to minimize my contact with Windows OSes as
much as possible. I know some people who have used it and said that
it's not as bad as they had heard. Not exactly a ringing endorsement.
But not complete condemnation either. Doesn't matter to me, I'll still
be using Linux no matter what.

Michael


From danno at umich.edu  Wed Jun 27 11:23:17 2007
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 11:23:17 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] SUSPECT: RE:  OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E203124909@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
References: <4681374C.4020506@comcast.net>
	<B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E203124909@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
Message-ID: <20070627152317.GB15355@maniac.deathstar.org>

On Wed, Jun 27, 2007 at 07:37:06AM -0500, Morris, Tim wrote:
> The problem is they break when you're using them, not while they're
> sitting on the shelf. It's a pain in the *** to have your tools break
> and then have to stop what you're doing and replace them. I've had so

...and sometimes it can be a critical problem.  

I have a friend (a crazy russian mountain climber/bit-head) who
insists on owning the best possible knife, because once he found
himself in the wilderness with a failed knife and a life-threatening
reason that he needed one.

He has *nice* knives.  

Flashlights especially fall into this category - odds are good when you
want your flashlight you'll be pretty sad if it doesn't work.

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From jvartanian at gmail.com  Wed Jun 27 11:31:42 2007
From: jvartanian at gmail.com (Joseph Vartanian)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 11:31:42 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DFC@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <dd889b430706262158i69392596p2a96d6490bb148d6@mail.gmail.com>
	<41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DFC@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <dd889b430706270831o3638c6a9hf3e14dcc78ca45c@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/27/07, Ingles, Raymond <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:
>
> > From: Joseph Vartanian
>
> > A lot of people have been saying that Vista is just XP with a pretty
> > new interface.  I've even seen several IT folks at work saying that.
> > This is wrong.  There are many dramatic changes in Vista under the
> > hood, but most of them aren't obvious to your typical user.
>
>  Can you name some of them? I'm not aware of many beyond the user interface
> stuff.
>
>  1. Security changes. Consists almost entirely, from what I can see, of
> reinventing 'sudo', badly. ("Those who do not understand UNIX are condemned
> to reinvent it - badly." -- Henry Spencer.)
>
>  2. DRM 'enhancements', which we've already discussed:
> http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html
>
>  3. Nerfing OpenGL. Apparently designed to interfere with cross-platform
> games.
>
>  4. "ReadyBoost". Basically a special swap partition that can be put on a
> flash drive that has certain characteristics. A mildly interesting hack,
> but their time would be better spent making the system less memory-hungry
> overall.
>
>  Anything else? I write this as someone with a Vista Home Basic computer
> at home. (My wife uses it because she insists on MS Office.) Note that
> Home Basic does *not* use Aero, so the *only* changes I would see would
> be non-GUI stuff. And the above is all I've seen, aside from the fact that
> XP is usable in 1GB of RAM and Vista is astonishingly sluggish.
>

Man...I can't believe you're going to make me defend Vista on a LUG
list.  You're going to get me killed.  Like I said, my point is not to
defend it, but rather to just say what is true about it.  If you're an
anti-Microsoft person, just think about how bad it is to underestimate
your enemy.  That's not something you want to do.

Now the changes you mention there are right.  Yes, Vista new User
Access Controls feature is basically a knockoff of sudo, but it's not
true that this is all they did for security.

You said to name some changes, so I will.  Like I said, I've had
little time to play with Vista, but I noticed quite a few new things.
Please keep in mind that I was looking at it from an IT perspective,
so I didn't really spend any time on finding out how Vista does things
like manage my photos, or what cool effect the UI has now.  These are
the changes I can think of right off the top of my head.

*  The software firewall is now bi-directional
*  IPSec and domain isolation are now integrated into the firewall
*  IE now runs in Protected mode (sandboxed)
*  Network Access Protection (NAP) allows admins check a machine's
software for compliance, and only allow access to resources for
compliant machines, or get non-compliant machine up to compliance.
*  New image format, WIM, allows for nondestructive and
hardware-agnostic image based OS deployment
*  WIM images can be maintained offline (no need to restore them,
modify them, and create new images like before)
*  Lot and lots of new Group Policies settings.  I think Microsoft
said they had over 700 new ones.  For those who don't know what Group
Policies are, just know that 700 new ones is a huge thing.
*  Powershell (yes, it's a Unix shell knockoff)
*  Most admin tasks that used to be don't with the GUI only can now
also be done via command like (yes, Unix again)
*  New or improved diagnostics tools
*  Improved auditing.  For example, Vista can forward critical audit
data to a central location

There are a few that I can think of right now.  There's a lot more
that I may not be remembering now, and I going to try because I really
don't want to write a 20 page list.  And I just used it for a short
time, just skimming the surface.

-Joseph


From danno at umich.edu  Wed Jun 27 11:57:10 2007
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 11:57:10 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
In-Reply-To: <dd889b430706270831o3638c6a9hf3e14dcc78ca45c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd889b430706262158i69392596p2a96d6490bb148d6@mail.gmail.com>
	<41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DFC@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<dd889b430706270831o3638c6a9hf3e14dcc78ca45c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070627155710.GA23335@maniac.deathstar.org>

> >
> > > A lot of people have been saying that Vista is just XP with a pretty
> > > new interface.  I've even seen several IT folks at work saying that.
> > > This is wrong.  There are many dramatic changes in Vista under the
> > > hood, but most of them aren't obvious to your typical user.
> >
> >  Can you name some of them? I'm not aware of many beyond the user interface
> > stuff.

I believe that they changed the architecture so that display drivers
(and presumably some other device drivers but I don't know for sure)
no longer run in kernel space.  This is a huge win compared to XP for
security and reliability.

They've also vastly improved their development methodology w/r/t
security; many of the benefits of this showed up with XP SP2 but
this is the first full release under the new regime.  Not that this
solves all problems but it was a huge step in the right direction.

tnx
danno


From tesral at comcast.net  Wed Jun 27 12:19:34 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 12:19:34 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] SUSPECT: RE:  OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <20070627152317.GB15355@maniac.deathstar.org>
References: <4681374C.4020506@comcast.net>	<B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E203124909@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
	<20070627152317.GB15355@maniac.deathstar.org>
Message-ID: <46828E16.4080407@comcast.net>

Dan Pritts wrote:
> He has *nice* knives.  
>   

Wise man.  I like nice knives.

> Flashlights especially fall into this category - odds are good when you
> want your flashlight you'll be pretty sad if it doesn't work.
>   

I check the batteries on my flashlights monthly.  If I notice dimming,
they get changed.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From micorral at comcast.net  Wed Jun 27 12:56:47 2007
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 12:56:47 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.4.64.0706271254520.4080@w2zzzp0601.amer.corp.eds.com>

Joseph Vartanian a ecrit:
> *  Powershell (yes, it's a Unix shell knockoff)

Hmm, I thought PowerShell was not included with Vista, but was still
a separate download. It is included with Windows Server 2008, though.

Michael


From kevinjsmith at gmail.com  Wed Jun 27 13:08:44 2007
From: kevinjsmith at gmail.com (Kevin Jeffrey Smith)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 13:08:44 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
In-Reply-To: <20070627155710.GA23335@maniac.deathstar.org>
References: <dd889b430706262158i69392596p2a96d6490bb148d6@mail.gmail.com>
	<41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DFC@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<dd889b430706270831o3638c6a9hf3e14dcc78ca45c@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070627155710.GA23335@maniac.deathstar.org>
Message-ID: <cd35dd0a0706271008j2cfe39c5lbe69f6e5b2788682@mail.gmail.com>

I decided to install Vista Business as a lark on my main desktop last week -
figured I'd try it before I pass judgment on it. I was impressed with the
install process - very painless. I thought the UAC, as much as people love
to make fun of it, might make non-technical end-users think twice before
installing stuff at random (I know this is a pipe dream, but hey). A lot of
the configuration options in Control Panel seem to be a little more logical
in their location/naming, hardware driver installs seem pretty painless for
the most part, etc.

However, I was shocked at how sluggish it was without turning off a ton of
features. Granted, my rig is no God Box (2.6 GHz P4, 1 GB RAM, 256 MB
GeForce 5500FX vid card) and Vista is supposedly optimized for newer
hardware, but I've had to disable every visual effect, System Restore,
remove unnecessary features from the OS, etc. to get this thing to perform
respectably on my hardware (with all drivers, etc.)

As others have pointed out - it's a interesting step in the right direction.

-KJS

On 6/27/07, Dan Pritts <danno at umich.edu> wrote:
>
> > >
> > > > A lot of people have been saying that Vista is just XP with a pretty
> > > > new interface.  I've even seen several IT folks at work saying that.
> > > > This is wrong.  There are many dramatic changes in Vista under the
> > > > hood, but most of them aren't obvious to your typical user.
> > >
> > >  Can you name some of them? I'm not aware of many beyond the user
> interface
> > > stuff.
>
> I believe that they changed the architecture so that display drivers
> (and presumably some other device drivers but I don't know for sure)
> no longer run in kernel space.  This is a huge win compared to XP for
> security and reliability.
>
> They've also vastly improved their development methodology w/r/t
> security; many of the benefits of this showed up with XP SP2 but
> this is the first full release under the new regime.  Not that this
> solves all problems but it was a huge step in the right direction.
>
> tnx
> danno
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070627/e8467bfc/attachment.html>

From mdlug2 at arb.net  Wed Jun 27 13:52:34 2007
From: mdlug2 at arb.net (Dave Arbogast)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 13:52:34 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
In-Reply-To: <cd35dd0a0706271008j2cfe39c5lbe69f6e5b2788682@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd889b430706262158i69392596p2a96d6490bb148d6@mail.gmail.com>	<41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DFC@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<dd889b430706270831o3638c6a9hf3e14dcc78ca45c@mail.gmail.com>	<20070627155710.GA23335@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<cd35dd0a0706271008j2cfe39c5lbe69f6e5b2788682@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4682A3E2.8060106@arb.net>

What about printing? Do you still have to be admin to install a network 
printer? Last I heard yes...  It really annoys me that they don't see a 
printer as any other non authenticated resource, like browsing a web 
site !!!

-dave

Kevin Jeffrey Smith wrote:

> I decided to install Vista Business as a lark on my main desktop last 
> week - figured I'd try it before I pass judgment on it. I was 
> impressed with the install process - very painless. I thought the UAC, 
> as much as people love to make fun of it, might make non-technical 
> end-users think twice before installing stuff at random (I know this 
> is a pipe dream, but hey). A lot of the configuration options in 
> Control Panel seem to be a little more logical in their 
> location/naming, hardware driver installs seem pretty painless for the 
> most part, etc.
>
> However, I was shocked at how sluggish it was without turning off a 
> ton of features. Granted, my rig is no God Box (2.6 GHz P4, 1 GB RAM, 
> 256 MB GeForce 5500FX vid card) and Vista is supposedly optimized for 
> newer hardware, but I've had to disable every visual effect, System 
> Restore, remove unnecessary features from the OS, etc. to get this 
> thing to perform respectably on my hardware (with all drivers, etc.)
>
> As others have pointed out - it's a interesting step in the right 
> direction.
>
> -KJS
>
> On 6/27/07, Dan Pritts < danno at umich.edu <mailto:danno at umich.edu>> wrote:
>
>     > >
>     > > > A lot of people have been saying that Vista is just XP with
>     a pretty
>     > > > new interface.  I've even seen several IT folks at work
>     saying that.
>     > > > This is wrong.  There are many dramatic changes in Vista
>     under the
>     > > > hood, but most of them aren't obvious to your typical user.
>     > >
>     > >  Can you name some of them? I'm not aware of many beyond the
>     user interface
>     > > stuff.
>
>     I believe that they changed the architecture so that display drivers
>     (and presumably some other device drivers but I don't know for sure)
>     no longer run in kernel space.  This is a huge win compared to XP for
>     security and reliability.
>
>     They've also vastly improved their development methodology w/r/t
>     security; many of the benefits of this showed up with XP SP2 but
>     this is the first full release under the new regime.  Not that this
>     solves all problems but it was a huge step in the right direction.
>
>     tnx
>     danno
>     _______________________________________________
>     mdlug mailing list
>     mdlug at mdlug.org <mailto:mdlug at mdlug.org>
>     http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070627/d3a75de7/attachment.html>

From zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com  Wed Jun 27 15:07:52 2007
From: zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com (M. D. Krauss)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 15:07:52 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] SUSPECT: RE:  OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <20070627152317.GB15355@maniac.deathstar.org>
References: <4681374C.4020506@comcast.net>
	<B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E203124909@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
	<20070627152317.GB15355@maniac.deathstar.org>
Message-ID: <20070627150752.657ed3af@tessa.long>

On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 11:23:17 -0400
Dan Pritts <danno at umich.edu> wrote:

/snip

> Flashlights especially fall into this category - odds are good when
> you want your flashlight you'll be pretty sad if it doesn't work.

Yeah, this is why I keep wind-up LED flashlights around.


From jvartanian at gmail.com  Wed Jun 27 15:15:48 2007
From: jvartanian at gmail.com (Joseph Vartanian)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 15:15:48 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
In-Reply-To: <Pine.WNT.4.64.0706271254520.4080@w2zzzp0601.amer.corp.eds.com>
References: <Pine.WNT.4.64.0706271254520.4080@w2zzzp0601.amer.corp.eds.com>
Message-ID: <dd889b430706271215g4bd835c0tfc75c9a4f07ac74d@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/27/07, Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net> wrote:
> Joseph Vartanian a ecrit:
> > *  Powershell (yes, it's a Unix shell knockoff)
>
> Hmm, I thought PowerShell was not included with Vista, but was still
> a separate download. It is included with Windows Server 2008, though.
>
> Michael

You're right.  Looks like PowerShell is a download.  I thought it was included.

-Joseph


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Wed Jun 27 16:03:33 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 16:03:33 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
In-Reply-To: <dd889b430706270831o3638c6a9hf3e14dcc78ca45c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33E04@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>


> From: Joseph Vartanian

> *  The software firewall is now bi-directional
> *  IPSec and domain isolation are now integrated into the firewall
> *  IE now runs in Protected mode (sandboxed)

 Somewhat better security out of the box, okay. I don't see much that couldn't
be done with 3rd-party stuff before, though. All the rest that you mention are
really only useful for corporate management. End users won't care about that
stuff. Still surprising that it took that long just to get that stuff.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                             (313) 227-2317

 "President Bush has introduced an exciting innovation - the fake town
  hall. In these stirring non-debates, pre-screened citizens are free
 to voice their president's opinions, and pepper him with the toughest
            of compliments." - Samantha Bee, The Daily Show

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. 


From jvartanian at gmail.com  Wed Jun 27 19:09:37 2007
From: jvartanian at gmail.com (Joseph Vartanian)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 19:09:37 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33E04@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <dd889b430706270831o3638c6a9hf3e14dcc78ca45c@mail.gmail.com>
	<41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33E04@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <dd889b430706271609v7ed88b18jd4a7924b29e82f44@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/27/07, Ingles, Raymond <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:
>
> > From: Joseph Vartanian
>
> > *  The software firewall is now bi-directional
> > *  IPSec and domain isolation are now integrated into the firewall
> > *  IE now runs in Protected mode (sandboxed)
>
>  Somewhat better security out of the box, okay. I don't see much that couldn't
> be done with 3rd-party stuff before, though. All the rest that you mention are
> really only useful for corporate management. End users won't care about that
> stuff. Still surprising that it took that long just to get that stuff.

You're right.  While this stuff is important to IT people, most users
wouldn't care.  But lets be completely honest here.  End users want to
be able to browse the web, listen to music, watch videos, type a few
documents, chat with their 5,000 myspace friends, and do it all with a
pretty GUI.  Everything else only matters to people like us.

If you look at it that way then Vista, OSX and various Linux distros
already have everything they need in an OS.  No matter what anybody
adds to an OS, it doesn't matter.  So now can somebody name anything
in Vista that most end users really need that MS didn't already give
them?  Same goes for Linux...what does Ubuntu lack that end users
really need?  Nothing.  Good marketing just makes end users just want
more features that they'll never use.

And in reality, many companies are reluctant to go with Vista because
they think it's too different for their employees (training issues).
What if MS had made even more changes.

-Joseph


From jvartanian at gmail.com  Wed Jun 27 19:21:35 2007
From: jvartanian at gmail.com (Joseph Vartanian)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 19:21:35 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dd889b430706271621q4c4a2a7ewfcc97a1f5234c1dc@mail.gmail.com>

I just want to say thanks to everyone who replied here.  I'll be
considering everything you all suggested when buying, with the
exception of Michael Corral's suggestion.

-Joseph


From cvweiss at gmail.com  Wed Jun 27 22:16:04 2007
From: cvweiss at gmail.com (Clinton V. Weiss)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 22:16:04 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <dd889b430706271621q4c4a2a7ewfcc97a1f5234c1dc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
	<dd889b430706271621q4c4a2a7ewfcc97a1f5234c1dc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f0e9fe590706271916y2f921f46u936b2f774c352669@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/27/07, Joseph Vartanian <jvartanian at gmail.com> wrote:
> I just want to say thanks to everyone who replied here.  I'll be
> considering everything you all suggested when buying, with the
> exception of Michael Corral's suggestion.


No kidding - I was not happy about that.  I clicked on it while I was
at work!  Luckily no one happened to be around.


-- 
Clinton V. Weiss
cvweiss at gmail.com


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Jun 28 00:07:41 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 00:07:41 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Office 2007 overhead
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706272107p73b3a2d2n40972fbaace3a98e@mail.gmail.com>

I was attempting to install Office Ultimate 2007 DVD on XP in VMWare.
I didn't have enough space  so I started disabling options.  After
setting EVERYTHING to "Not Available" it still needs 791MB.  With
everything set to "Run from My Computer" it wants 1867MB.  Full OOo +
Java 1.6 totals 328MB.  Why does Office need that much space?  Is the
EULA that big?


From zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 28 01:50:01 2007
From: zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com (M. D. Krauss)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 01:50:01 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
In-Reply-To: <dd889b430706271609v7ed88b18jd4a7924b29e82f44@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd889b430706270831o3638c6a9hf3e14dcc78ca45c@mail.gmail.com>
	<41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33E04@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<dd889b430706271609v7ed88b18jd4a7924b29e82f44@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070628015001.12cf72dc@tessa.long>

On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 19:09:37 -0400
"Joseph Vartanian" <jvartanian at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 6/27/07, Ingles, Raymond <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:
> >
> > > From: Joseph Vartanian
> >
> > > *  The software firewall is now bi-directional
> > > *  IPSec and domain isolation are now integrated into the firewall
> > > *  IE now runs in Protected mode (sandboxed)
> >
> >  Somewhat better security out of the box, okay. I don't see much
> > that couldn't be done with 3rd-party stuff before, though. All the
> > rest that you mention are really only useful for corporate
> > management. End users won't care about that stuff. Still surprising
> > that it took that long just to get that stuff.
> 
> You're right.  While this stuff is important to IT people, most users
> wouldn't care.  But lets be completely honest here.  End users want to
> be able to browse the web, listen to music, watch videos, type a few
> documents, chat with their 5,000 myspace friends, and do it all with a
> pretty GUI.  Everything else only matters to people like us.

Yes, but in terms of adoption, what matters to corporate management is
what matters to the market.  People are most comfortable using a system
that they already know, and most people learn what they need on the job.

> If you look at it that way then Vista, OSX and various Linux distros
> already have everything they need in an OS.  No matter what anybody
> adds to an OS, it doesn't matter.  So now can somebody name anything
> in Vista that most end users really need that MS didn't already give
> them?  Same goes for Linux...what does Ubuntu lack that end users
> really need?  Nothing.  Good marketing just makes end users just want
> more features that they'll never use.

Hmm... Ubuntu (and others) lacks support for high-end games. Vista and
XP lack real stability and security.  I know someone will say that the
average user doesn't care about stability and security, but they do
when their computer starts crashing.  We really need a jazzier word for
it.  Something like "nocrashocity!"

> And in reality, many companies are reluctant to go with Vista because
> they think it's too different for their employees (training issues).
> What if MS had made even more changes.

Yes, but they will be forced to upgrade eventually.  In this light,
Vista is a great opportunity for GNU/Linux, if the message can get out.
"Tired of being forced in to massive organization-wide upgrades?
Upgrade just one more time, to *whatever-flavor* GNU/Linux, and be
done; or upgrade to Vista -- and then in a few more years do it all
again."

Matthew


From amajorov at sbcglobal.net  Thu Jun 28 07:39:15 2007
From: amajorov at sbcglobal.net (allen)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 07:39:15 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
In-Reply-To: <20070628015001.12cf72dc@tessa.long>
References: <dd889b430706270831o3638c6a9hf3e14dcc78ca45c@mail.gmail.com>	<41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33E04@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<dd889b430706271609v7ed88b18jd4a7924b29e82f44@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070628015001.12cf72dc@tessa.long>
Message-ID: <46839DE3.1060405@sbcglobal.net>

M. D. Krauss wrote:
> Yes, but in terms of adoption, what matters to corporate management is
> what matters to the market.  People are most comfortable using a system
> that they already know, and most people learn what they need on the job.
>
>   
The importance of the corporate market certainly was crucial to 
Microsoft's success and it'll continue to be an important source of 
revenue. But just like the mainframe market diminished in importance 
relative to the entire computer market, leaving IBM with a largely 
irrelevant effective monopoly on the mainframe market, Microsoft's 
corporate market will become a small enough part of the computer 
industry to lose its industry-controlling power. It's already happened.

Microsoft is a non-participant or just another competitor in several 
markets they sought to crack: set-top boxes, game machines, cell phones, 
the entire embedded market, the PDA market. They're trying desperately 
not to be left out of the po' folks computer market but provided the 
OLPC doesn't end up as a gigantic fiasco, they won't win there either. 
And, that last is a market that Microsoft can't justify without 
abandoning its business model. Profit margins are, by MS standards, too 
low to be interesting.
> Hmm... Ubuntu (and others) lacks support for high-end games. Vista and
> XP lack real stability and security.  I know someone will say that the
> average user doesn't care about stability and security, but they do
> when their computer starts crashing.  We really need a jazzier word for
> it.  Something like "nocrashocity!"
>
>   
FOSS advertising, such as it is, is pretty lame. But how much does that 
really matter? The absence of the profit motive takes away much of the 
urgency that's common to the corporate world. Without that the need for 
big hits just evaporates since it's important to look like a winner 
almost as much as it is to be a winner.

Get it right, get it wrong, who cares? The board of directors isn't 
going to chuck you out if development stalls at the .9.0.12 release and 
you can't ship in time for the crucial Christmas season. No options to 
vest and stock price to worry about. If you screw up bad enough the 
worst thing that can happen is your code is forked. I don't think too 
many people'll jump off a bridge over that.
> Yes, but they will be forced to upgrade eventually.  In this light,
> Vista is a great opportunity for GNU/Linux, if the message can get out.
> "Tired of being forced in to massive organization-wide upgrades?
> Upgrade just one more time, to *whatever-flavor* GNU/Linux, and be
> done; or upgrade to Vista -- and then in a few more years do it all
> again."
>
>   
Sure they, the corporate world, will be forced to upgrade. That lock-in 
that Microsoft tries to apply to every market doesn't bite any harder 
then it does in the corporate world. But outside that market the 
attraction of Windows lies mainly in the absence of alternatives.

That's an advantage that's eroding by the day and Microsoft is aware of 
it. Evidence some of their more pathetic, not to mention unsuccessful, 
attempts at sewing FUD. The corporate buyers don't need to be frightened 
and the home buyers can't be frightened but what else does MS have to 
defend itself? There's the attempt to use the patent system to throttle 
FOSS but that doesn't seem to have had quite the legs it was originally 
feared so no help there. They sure can't compete on price, although 
they're trying with some very aggressive pricing in foreign markets and 
to foreign governments.

It's not all that obvious what Microsoft hopes to accomplish in many of 
the foreign markets it's trying to buy with low pricing. It's not as if 
you can force some African subsistence farmer to upgrade to Vista++ and 
Office 2012 for a couple of hundred bucks because he won't have backward 
compatibility.

Allen


From radkins at impelind.com  Thu Jun 28 09:49:02 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 09:49:02 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
In-Reply-To: <dd889b430706271609v7ed88b18jd4a7924b29e82f44@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd889b430706270831o3638c6a9hf3e14dcc78ca45c@mail.gmail.com>	<41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33E04@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<dd889b430706271609v7ed88b18jd4a7924b29e82f44@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4683BC4E.4030007@impelind.com>

Joseph Vartanian said the following on 6/27/2007 7:09 PM:
>
> And in reality, many companies are reluctant to go with Vista because
> they think it's too different for their employees (training issues).
> What if MS had made even more changes.
>
> -Joseph
>
>   

    This, I completely agree with. The changes to the GUI and basic 
programs, like Search, File Browsing and such would provide me with a 
pounding ache in the head around these parts.

    I don't mind the need to upgrade/replace portions of an OS. I really 
dislike the bizarre need to radically redesign the GUI every other 
iteration of an OS. What they need to do is provide the option of 
running an old "themed" interface that could benefit from modern 
graphical enhancements.

    Thus, someone could be running a "Win 3.1" Desktop with 32-bit 
graphical icons, transparency and all the rest of the graphical hoo-hah 
that's available, while still maintaining near 100% familiarity with the 
locations of everything they are used to using.

    -Rob


From danno at umich.edu  Thu Jun 28 10:53:22 2007
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 10:53:22 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] SUSPECT: RE:  OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <20070627150752.657ed3af@tessa.long>
References: <4681374C.4020506@comcast.net>
	<B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E203124909@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
	<20070627152317.GB15355@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<20070627150752.657ed3af@tessa.long>
Message-ID: <20070628145322.GB38963@maniac.deathstar.org>

On Wed, Jun 27, 2007 at 03:07:52PM -0400, M. D. Krauss wrote:
> Yeah, this is why I keep wind-up LED flashlights around.

Can you recommend one that's stood the test of time?  My paranoid
friend bought a bunch of wind-up flashlights before y2k for his
place up north.  none of them lasted through 2001.

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Thu Jun 28 11:16:43 2007
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 11:16:43 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Surface computing...
In-Reply-To: <20070626160236.M77530@wowway.com>
References: <20070626160236.M77530@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380706280816n6fd7d698q470550af505aeba1@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/26/07, ebradley01 at wowway.com wrote:


> The following video clip (link below) portrays a technology that is being
> developed (though not necessarily discovered/pioneered) by Microsoft.

Here's a funny parody video that manages to make some REALLY good
points beyond the snark.  The link's from the "Windows Secrets"
newsletter, which has become increasingly MS-bashing of late...
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZrr7AZ9nCY>

-- Mikey


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Thu Jun 28 11:24:30 2007
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 11:24:30 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] I paid $400 for WHAT?
Message-ID: <b67fb0380706280824g693a05c9y7171e9f63a443989@mail.gmail.com>

More "cracks in the Evil Empire" to report.

The "Windows Secrets" newsletter reports that "Windows Vista Ultimate"
purchasers are becoming increasingly restive over Microsoft's failure
to deliver the promised "extras" that were supposed to justify the
outrageous price...
<http://WindowsSecrets.com/comp/070628/#story1>

-- Mikey


From radkins at impelind.com  Thu Jun 28 11:24:32 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 11:24:32 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Surface computing...
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380706280816n6fd7d698q470550af505aeba1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070626160236.M77530@wowway.com>
	<b67fb0380706280816n6fd7d698q470550af505aeba1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4683D2B0.8080907@impelind.com>

Michael Rudas said the following on 6/28/2007 11:16 AM:
> On 6/26/07, ebradley01 at wowway.com wrote:
>
>
>   
>> The following video clip (link below) portrays a technology that is being
>> developed (though not necessarily discovered/pioneered) by Microsoft.
>>     
>
> Here's a funny parody video that manages to make some REALLY good
> points beyond the snark.  The link's from the "Windows Secrets"
> newsletter, which has become increasingly MS-bashing of late...
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZrr7AZ9nCY>
>
> -- Mikey
>
>   
    Those are seriously funny.

    I certainly couldn't have done better myself.

    -Rob


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Jun 28 11:26:06 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 11:26:06 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Surface computing...
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380706280816n6fd7d698q470550af505aeba1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070626160236.M77530@wowway.com>
	<b67fb0380706280816n6fd7d698q470550af505aeba1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706280826k6bec3103hbe391cd62ae13aac@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/28/07, Michael Rudas <audiotech50 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Here's a funny parody video that manages to make some REALLY good
> points beyond the snark.  The link's from the "Windows Secrets"
> newsletter, which has become increasingly MS-bashing of late...
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZrr7AZ9nCY>

That was awesome!  ROFLMAO


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Thu Jun 28 15:22:02 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 15:22:02 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
In-Reply-To: <20070628015001.12cf72dc@tessa.long>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33E0A@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>


> From: M. D. Krauss

> Yes, but in terms of adoption, what matters to corporate management is
> what matters to the market.  People are most comfortable using a system
> that they already know, and most people learn what they need on the job.

 Fortunately, MS is playing catch-up to features Unix and Linux have had
for decades.

> > If you look at it that way then Vista, OSX and various Linux distros
> > already have everything they need in an OS.

 And this is why corporate desktop Linux makes a great deal of sense.
For most users, it already has everything it needs, and the price is
very nice. The main sticking point is MS Office, but their grip there
is weakening, too.

 I'm not saying Linux is taking over tomorrow. But I like the trendlines
I can see.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                             (313) 227-2317

 A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. 
 Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
 A: Top-posting.
 Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. 


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Thu Jun 28 15:29:27 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 15:29:27 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
In-Reply-To: <4683BC4E.4030007@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33E0B@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>


> From: Robert Adkins

>     Thus, someone could be running a "Win 3.1" Desktop with 32-bit 
> graphical icons, transparency and all the rest of the graphical hoo-hah 
> that's available, while still maintaining near 100% familiarity with the 
> locations of everything they are used to using.

 Well, to be fair, that's kind of hard to do when your GUI is tied into your
OS so deeply. It can even be difficult to run a really old Linux desktop
environment on a new kernel, though Linux handles this far better.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                   (313) 227-2317

 "There is no limit to the good you can do if you don't care
         who gets the credit." - George C. Marshall

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. 


From zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 28 15:30:36 2007
From: zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com (M. D. Krauss)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 15:30:36 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] SUSPECT: RE:  OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <20070628145322.GB38963@maniac.deathstar.org>
References: <4681374C.4020506@comcast.net>
	<B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E203124909@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
	<20070627152317.GB15355@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<20070627150752.657ed3af@tessa.long>
	<20070628145322.GB38963@maniac.deathstar.org>
Message-ID: <20070628153036.5fcf6745@tessa.long>

On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 10:53:22 -0400
Dan Pritts <danno at umich.edu> wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 27, 2007 at 03:07:52PM -0400, M. D. Krauss wrote:
> > Yeah, this is why I keep wind-up LED flashlights around.
> 
> Can you recommend one that's stood the test of time?  My paranoid
> friend bought a bunch of wind-up flashlights before y2k for his
> place up north.  none of them lasted through 2001.

This is not something that I had considered.  I've had these for
probably over a year and they work fine so far, but that's not exactly
a long time. They are DuraPROs.  Came in a pack of two at Costco, good
price as I recall. They look kind of like Star Trek phasers or
something.  They are good for computer work as the handle that charges
them also makes for a decent prop.

There is a sticker on them that says "IMPORTANT: For optimum
performance it is recommended that you charge the light by winding the
handle for one minute at least once every 3 months even if the
flashlight or flashers are not in use."  Maybe this is why your friends
flashlights died?  Kind of like if you don't start your car for a
while.

More recently I have noticed a similar model available with a built in
radio.  That seems like a great idea.

If anyone else has better information on this, I would love to know.

Matthew


From danno at umich.edu  Thu Jun 28 15:34:59 2007
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 15:34:59 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] SUSPECT: RE:  OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <20070628153036.5fcf6745@tessa.long>
References: <4681374C.4020506@comcast.net>
	<B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E203124909@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
	<20070627152317.GB15355@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<20070627150752.657ed3af@tessa.long>
	<20070628145322.GB38963@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<20070628153036.5fcf6745@tessa.long>
Message-ID: <20070628193459.GA2245@maniac.deathstar.org>

On Thu, Jun 28, 2007 at 03:30:36PM -0400, M. D. Krauss wrote:
> There is a sticker on them that says "IMPORTANT: For optimum
> performance it is recommended that you charge the light by winding the
> handle for one minute at least once every 3 months even if the
> flashlight or flashers are not in use."  Maybe this is why your friends
> flashlights died?  Kind of like if you don't start your car for a
> while.

Nope, they were used pretty regularly (they spend a lot of time up
north, even in the winter) and physically wore out/broke after not
a very long time.

I wonder whether they had batteries or capacitors.

batteries would explain the 3 month recharge - and also limits their
lifetime to the shelf life of the batteries (dunno how long you can
expect from nimh's but more than a year or two).  I know capacitors
can die too - can anyone say whether they die from just sitting there?

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From escalated at gmail.com  Thu Jun 28 15:43:44 2007
From: escalated at gmail.com (merc)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 15:43:44 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Novell server replacement
Message-ID: <9852fbe30706281243i478d7d56u5e014eb3f459a903@mail.gmail.com>

Hi -

Here at work we have a pretty old novell server that we're worried may
be on its last legs.  We are thinking moving some of the services it
provides to a linux box, but after I leave I want other people to be
able to manage these services through a nice interface(web based would
be nice, but, whatever.).

I want to replace just the fileserver portion right now - it's what
seems the most critical(besides some proprietary novell database stuff
-- revelation and paradox iirc)

So, my question is, can anyone recommend something that has a nice,
easy to use interface - just for file server configuration at the
moment, but something that took care of much more would be nice.

I've looked at GOsa http://www.gosa-project.org/ but that wont even
install unless I have LDAP setup.

Any suggestions are appreciated.

-Merrick


From millerc at cantonpl.org  Thu Jun 28 15:53:26 2007
From: millerc at cantonpl.org (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 15:53:26 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Novell server replacement
In-Reply-To: <9852fbe30706281243i478d7d56u5e014eb3f459a903@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9852fbe30706281243i478d7d56u5e014eb3f459a903@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50159.66.51.146.97.1183060406.squirrel@mail.cantonpl.org>

merc wrote:
> Here at work we have a pretty old novell server that we're worried may
> be on its last legs.  We are thinking moving some of the services it
> provides to a linux box, but after I leave I want other people to be
> able to manage these services through a nice interface(web based would
> be nice, but, whatever.).
>
> I want to replace just the fileserver portion right now - it's what
> seems the most critical(besides some proprietary novell database stuff
> -- revelation and paradox iirc)
>
> So, my question is, can anyone recommend something that has a nice,
> easy to use interface - just for file server configuration at the
> moment, but something that took care of much more would be nice.

This must sound like a dumb question, but have you considered
Novell?  The latest version of Novell runs on Linux.  So anyone
with Linux experience will feel at home.  It also is Novell, so
you should have no problem with keeping your current users and
permissions on filesystems.  You would also have minimal recon-
figuration of desktops and little if any user training.  And
Novell includes web-based management tools that covers more
than just the filesystems.  Is there a reason that you don't
want to go that route?

c





From zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 28 15:51:56 2007
From: zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com (M. D. Krauss)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 15:51:56 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33E0B@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <4683BC4E.4030007@impelind.com>
	<41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33E0B@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <20070628155156.031d457a@tessa.long>

On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 15:29:27 -0400
"Ingles, Raymond" <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:

> 
> > From: Robert Adkins
> 
> >     Thus, someone could be running a "Win 3.1" Desktop with 32-bit 
> > graphical icons, transparency and all the rest of the graphical
> > hoo-hah that's available, while still maintaining near 100%
> > familiarity with the locations of everything they are used to using.
> 
>  Well, to be fair, that's kind of hard to do when your GUI is tied
> into your OS so deeply. It can even be difficult to run a really old
> Linux desktop environment on a new kernel, though Linux handles this
> far better.

It can? I don't get it.  TWM or FVWM or whatnot are still being used by
many people.  Maybe I am misunderstanding, can you give an example of a
"really old Linux desktop environment"?

Thanks,
Matthew


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Jun 28 16:04:49 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 16:04:49 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] SUSPECT: RE: OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <20070628193459.GA2245@maniac.deathstar.org>
References: <4681374C.4020506@comcast.net>
	<B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E203124909@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
	<20070627152317.GB15355@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<20070627150752.657ed3af@tessa.long>
	<20070628145322.GB38963@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<20070628153036.5fcf6745@tessa.long>
	<20070628193459.GA2245@maniac.deathstar.org>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706281304t6256ece7nd045ce453751c46c@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/28/07, Dan Pritts <danno at umich.edu> wrote:
> can anyone say whether they die from just sitting there?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel-cadmium_battery#Cell_reversal


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Thu Jun 28 16:07:56 2007
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 16:07:56 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] WinVista Ultimate = unrest
Message-ID: <b67fb0380706281307n54e961c1r5c57d1a4e2dfe091@mail.gmail.com>

More "cracks in the Evil Empire" to report.

The "Windows Secrets" newsletter reports that "Windows Vista Ultimate"
purchasers are becoming increasingly restive over Microsoft's failure
to deliver the promised "Extras" that were supposed to justify the
outrageous price...
<http://WindowsSecrets.com/comp/070628/#story1>

-- Mikey


From micorral at comcast.net  Thu Jun 28 16:14:15 2007
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 20:14:15 +0000
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
Message-ID: <062820072014.9247.4684169700015D200000241F2209229927040E9D9D010C0703@comcast.net>

M. D. Krauss a ecrit:
> "Ingles, Raymond" wrote:
> > It can even be difficult to run a really old
> > Linux desktop environment on a new kernel, though Linux handles this
> > far better.
> 
> It can? I don't get it.  TWM or FVWM or whatnot are still being used by
> many people.  Maybe I am misunderstanding, can you give an example of a
> "really old Linux desktop environment"?

Sure. Triteal CDE for Linux. It doesn't work with xorg 7.2, at least on my machine (Fedora 7).
It worked with earlier versions of xorg. In general, a lot of old libc5-based apps don't work
anymore, even with the libc5-compat stuff installed. :(

Michael


From escalated at gmail.com  Thu Jun 28 16:30:06 2007
From: escalated at gmail.com (merc)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 16:30:06 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Novell server replacement
In-Reply-To: <50159.66.51.146.97.1183060406.squirrel@mail.cantonpl.org>
References: <9852fbe30706281243i478d7d56u5e014eb3f459a903@mail.gmail.com>
	<50159.66.51.146.97.1183060406.squirrel@mail.cantonpl.org>
Message-ID: <9852fbe30706281330y2e06d550ic77a058de4271ea6@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/28/07, Carl T. Miller <millerc at cantonpl.org> wrote:
> merc wrote:
> > Here at work we have a pretty old novell server that we're worried may
<snip>
> This must sound like a dumb question, but have you considered
> Novell?  The latest version of Novell runs on Linux.  So anyone
> with Linux experience will feel at home.  It also is Novell, so
> you should have no problem with keeping your current users and
> permissions on filesystems.  You would also have minimal recon-
> figuration of desktops and little if any user training.  And
> Novell includes web-based management tools that covers more
> than just the filesystems.  Is there a reason that you don't
> want to go that route?
>
> c
>

I'm trying to stay away from Novell for now because our current
systems administrator has everything tied into the novell server
currently, and is the only one who knows how to work with and repair
these ancient databases.

Moving away from novell would (i think) be better so we can migrate
these databases to something that in case of hardware failure, isnt
totally inaccessible.(somehow the licenses for these databases are
tied to the hardware, from what im told)

The idea has been tossed around a bit, and im sure the current sys
admin would love to keep it that way. I'm trying to look to the future
when, oh, say he moves to mexico without notice and the company has to
bring in an outside company at $800/hr to migrate all this stuff.


From danno at umich.edu  Thu Jun 28 16:40:34 2007
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 16:40:34 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] SUSPECT: RE: OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90706281304t6256ece7nd045ce453751c46c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4681374C.4020506@comcast.net>
	<B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E203124909@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
	<20070627152317.GB15355@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<20070627150752.657ed3af@tessa.long>
	<20070628145322.GB38963@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<20070628153036.5fcf6745@tessa.long>
	<20070628193459.GA2245@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<b02c40e90706281304t6256ece7nd045ce453751c46c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070628204034.GB12246@maniac.deathstar.org>

On Thu, Jun 28, 2007 at 04:04:49PM -0400, Jeff Hanson wrote:
> On 6/28/07, Dan Pritts <danno at umich.edu> wrote:
> > can anyone say whether they die from just sitting there?
> 
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel-cadmium_battery#Cell_reversal

my question was about capacitors, not batteries.  

clearly, batteries die just sitting there.

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From millerc at cantonpl.org  Thu Jun 28 16:40:25 2007
From: millerc at cantonpl.org (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 16:40:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Novell server replacement
In-Reply-To: <9852fbe30706281330y2e06d550ic77a058de4271ea6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9852fbe30706281243i478d7d56u5e014eb3f459a903@mail.gmail.com>
	<50159.66.51.146.97.1183060406.squirrel@mail.cantonpl.org>
	<9852fbe30706281330y2e06d550ic77a058de4271ea6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55459.66.51.146.97.1183063225.squirrel@mail.cantonpl.org>

merc wrote:
> I'm trying to stay away from Novell for now because our current
> systems administrator has everything tied into the novell server
> currently, and is the only one who knows how to work with and repair
> these ancient databases.

Yeah, databases work that way.  However, your user base
and the permissions on your filesystems might be worth
keeping.  I think your issues with the databases will be
identical whether you go with Novell or something else
for a new file server.

> Moving away from novell would (i think) be better so we can migrate
> these databases to something that in case of hardware failure, isnt
> totally inaccessible.(somehow the licenses for these databases are
> tied to the hardware, from what im told)

Again, the real issue is migrating the databases.  You'll
have the same problems whether you're on Novell or something
else.

> The idea has been tossed around a bit, and im sure the current sys
> admin would love to keep it that way. I'm trying to look to the future
> when, oh, say he moves to mexico without notice and the company has to
> bring in an outside company at $800/hr to migrate all this stuff.

Yeah.  I would find out exactly what resources are being used
and how.  And I would treat the migration of the databases
as a separate project that the migration to a new file server,
although both could happen at the same time.

c




From escalated at gmail.com  Thu Jun 28 16:45:24 2007
From: escalated at gmail.com (merc)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 16:45:24 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Novell server replacement
In-Reply-To: <55459.66.51.146.97.1183063225.squirrel@mail.cantonpl.org>
References: <9852fbe30706281243i478d7d56u5e014eb3f459a903@mail.gmail.com>
	<50159.66.51.146.97.1183060406.squirrel@mail.cantonpl.org>
	<9852fbe30706281330y2e06d550ic77a058de4271ea6@mail.gmail.com>
	<55459.66.51.146.97.1183063225.squirrel@mail.cantonpl.org>
Message-ID: <9852fbe30706281345g37b07f25nfe046cc4f5d61bce@mail.gmail.com>

> Yeah.  I would find out exactly what resources are being used
> and how.  And I would treat the migration of the databases
> as a separate project that the migration to a new file server,
> although both could happen at the same time.
>

That was the plan, to start out with the fileserver part, and maybe
(if possible?) the part that will map printers and drives to the
computer, the databases we will worry about later.


From bobdion at starline-ent.com  Thu Jun 28 16:48:51 2007
From: bobdion at starline-ent.com (bob dion)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 16:48:51 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Novell server replacement
In-Reply-To: <9852fbe30706281243i478d7d56u5e014eb3f459a903@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9852fbe30706281243i478d7d56u5e014eb3f459a903@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46841EB3.1040604@starline-ent.com>

merc wrote:
> Hi -
> 
> So, my question is, can anyone recommend something that has a nice,
> easy to use interface - just for file server configuration at the
> moment, but something that took care of much more would be nice.
> 
>

There is webmin that will run on any Linux distro.

http://www.webmin.com

BD


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Jun 28 16:52:46 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 16:52:46 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] SUSPECT: RE: OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <20070628204034.GB12246@maniac.deathstar.org>
References: <4681374C.4020506@comcast.net>
	<B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E203124909@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
	<20070627152317.GB15355@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<20070627150752.657ed3af@tessa.long>
	<20070628145322.GB38963@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<20070628153036.5fcf6745@tessa.long>
	<20070628193459.GA2245@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<b02c40e90706281304t6256ece7nd045ce453751c46c@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070628204034.GB12246@maniac.deathstar.org>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706281352w44aabd03l906387fe0866c13a@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/28/07, Dan Pritts <danno at umich.edu> wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 28, 2007 at 04:04:49PM -0400, Jeff Hanson wrote:
> > On 6/28/07, Dan Pritts <danno at umich.edu> wrote:
> > > can anyone say whether they die from just sitting there?
> >
> > en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel-cadmium_battery#Cell_reversal
>
> my question was about capacitors, not batteries.

All caps will self-discharge over time but it doesn't cause damage.
Only the old paper-based caps had a limited life because the
electrolyte would dry out.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Jun 28 23:51:22 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 23:51:22 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Presidential candidates on FOSS
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706282051o17dad9eco5c1f280f82e45a3f@mail.gmail.com>

It's not the war, economy, environment, or health care, stupid.
What's in YOUR server?
http://www.douglaskarr.com/2007/06/23/2008-elections-by-server/


From jvartanian at gmail.com  Fri Jun 29 01:26:53 2007
From: jvartanian at gmail.com (Joseph Vartanian)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 01:26:53 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Presidential candidates on FOSS
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90706282051o17dad9eco5c1f280f82e45a3f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e90706282051o17dad9eco5c1f280f82e45a3f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dd889b430706282226v75c17bden203cb6b72217cd43@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/28/07, Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com> wrote:
> It's not the war, economy, environment, or health care, stupid.
> What's in YOUR server?
> http://www.douglaskarr.com/2007/06/23/2008-elections-by-server/

Yes, it's true.  The Democrats tend to run their sites on Linux or
FreeBSD, and the Republicans tend to run their web sites on Windows.
This actually all started back in the 2000 election when Al Gore
intentionally picked Linux/Apache on VA Linux hardware to run his web
site as a show of support for the OSS community.  Bush's site ran on
Windows/IIS.  Whether or not Bush's choice was intentional or not
wasn't something that was made public, but it's no secret that he was
a supporter of MS during its antitrust trial.  It's also no secret
that his DOJ was responsible for letting MS off the hook after it had
lost in court.

I do remember that their choice of server software got a lot of
attention from the tech crowd...it got my attention.  Ever since then
Democrats tend to go with Linux, and Republicans with Microsoft.
Personally I think that after 7 years and with so much dominance for
each OS based on party, it's pretty easy to argue that much of this is
intentional now.  You don't get numbers like that for such a long time
by chance.  Isn't it funny how absolutely everything in the world is
involved in politic somehow?

-Joseph


From freemancomputer at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 29 03:52:59 2007
From: freemancomputer at yahoo.com (jack freeman)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 00:52:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel panic
Message-ID: <267792.90131.qm@web55501.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

I tried RAM from another box and it still locked up and it also gave me the kernel panic. Im running a Lan Party NF2 MoBo and it looks like the BIOS is v6.00PG. 
Thanks
Jack

----- Original Message ----
From: - <otakurider at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 8:10:19 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Kernel panic

I had this problem with a system and it turned out to be memory chips not seated.  I reseated and never had a problem after.

 

Pat



 

On 6/26/07, jack freeman <freemancomputer at yahoo.com> wrote:


I am having a prblom with my web server booting. At times when it trys to boot i get a "kernel panic - not syncing: fatal exception in interrupt". When it does boot it has a rather bad habit of locking up. I am running Mandravia 
2007.1. Any ideas?

Jack




Building a website is a piece of cake. 
Yahoo! Small Business gives you 
all the tools to get online.

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org

http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug






       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.
http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow  
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070629/09e8cf40/attachment.html>

From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Fri Jun 29 09:47:46 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 09:47:46 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel panic
In-Reply-To: <267792.90131.qm@web55501.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33E0D@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: jack freeman

> I tried RAM from another box and it still locked up and it also gave me the
> kernel panic. Im running a Lan Party NF2 MoBo and it looks like the BIOS is v6.00PG. 

Repeated kernel panics tend to be a sign of hardware issues. Some things
to try:

 0. If there are BIOS updates, apply them.

 1. Unplug and reseat *everything*. If contacts on RAM or cables look at
    all corroded, a pencil eraser can clean them pretty well.

 2. Check temperatures, make sure fans are spinning and there's decent
    airflow.

 3. Disable features, and see if things stabilize. If so, start re-enabling
    features until things break again.
    a. Some things to try disabling: ACPI, APIC, fast IDE/SATA modes, etc.
       For ideas, look here: http://tldp.org/HOWTO/BootPrompt-HOWTO.html
      ...especially sections 3 and 4.
    b. Also, try disabling high-speed modes for the video card.

 Once things are stabilized, try compiling the Linux kernel over and over.
If you can get 24 hours of that without a panic or a signal 11, you can be
nearly certain the problem is resolved.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                                     (313) 227-2317

 "There is no distinction in nature between microevolution and macroevolution.
 Macroevolution is just larger quantities of microevolution over much longer
 times. It's like saying that there's 'microwalking' which is what I do from
 the car park to the office every morning, and down to the shops on weekends,
 and that can result in changes of my location over time on a small scale; but
 the idea that people, over tens of thousands of years, walked out of central
 Africa into Europe, then over to Asia, across to North America and into South
 America - that's 'macrowalking' and it's impossible. God must have put them
                        there." - Anthony Steele

-----Original Message-----
Thanks
Jack


----- Original Message ----
From: - <otakurider at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 8:10:19 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Kernel panic


I had this problem with a system and it turned out to be memory chips not seated.  I reseated and never had a problem after.

Pat


 
On 6/26/07, jack freeman <freemancomputer at yahoo.com> wrote: 
I am having a prblom with my web server booting. At times when it trys to boot i get a "kernel panic - not syncing: fatal exception in interrupt". When it does boot it has a rather bad habit of locking up. I am running Mandravia 2007.1. Any ideas?

Jack




Building a website is a piece of cake. 
Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org 
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug





Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. 

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. 


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 29 10:14:50 2007
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 07:14:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Finding CD-ROM
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33E0D@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <482953.59106.qm@web37913.mail.mud.yahoo.com>



"Ingles, Raymond" <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:  > From: jack freeman

> I tried RAM from another box and it still locked up and it also gave me the
> kernel panic. Im running a Lan Party NF2 MoBo and it looks like the BIOS is v6.00PG. 

Repeated kernel panics tend to be a sign of hardware issues. Some things
to try:

0. If there are BIOS updates, apply them.

1. Unplug and reseat *everything*. If contacts on RAM or cables look at
all corroded, a pencil eraser can clean them pretty well.

2. Check temperatures, make sure fans are spinning and there's decent
airflow.

3. Disable features, and see if things stabilize. If so, start re-enabling
features until things break again.
a. Some things to try disabling: ACPI, APIC, fast IDE/SATA modes, etc.
For ideas, look here: http://tldp.org/HOWTO/BootPrompt-HOWTO.html
...especially sections 3 and 4.
b. Also, try disabling high-speed modes for the video card.

Once things are stabilized, try compiling the Linux kernel over and over.
If you can get 24 hours of that without a panic or a signal 11, you can be
nearly certain the problem is resolved.

Sincerely,

Ray Ingles (313) 227-2317

"There is no distinction in nature between microevolution and macroevolution.
Macroevolution is just larger quantities of microevolution over much longer
times. It's like saying that there's 'microwalking' which is what I do from
the car park to the office every morning, and down to the shops on weekends,
and that can result in changes of my location over time on a small scale; but
the idea that people, over tens of thousands of years, walked out of central
Africa into Europe, then over to Asia, across to North America and into South
America - that's 'macrowalking' and it's impossible. God must have put them
there." - Anthony Steele

-----Original Message-----
Thanks
Jack


----- Original Message ----
From: - 
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list 
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 8:10:19 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Kernel panic


I had this problem with a system and it turned out to be memory chips not seated. I reseated and never had a problem after.

Pat



On 6/26/07, jack freeman wrote: 
I am having a prblom with my web server booting. At times when it trys to boot i get a "kernel panic - not syncing: fatal exception in interrupt". When it does boot it has a rather bad habit of locking up. I am running Mandravia 2007.1. Any ideas?

Jack




Building a website is a piece of cake. 
Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org 
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug





Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. 

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. 
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


       
---------------------------------
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070629/4ad578b4/attachment.html>

From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 29 10:16:42 2007
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 07:16:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Finding CD-ROM
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33E0D@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <470088.34485.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Sorry, 
   
  Here is my question:  
   
  I'm loading Suse 10.1 on a box that I built. While loading it cant find the cd-rom of the dvd.
   
  Does any body know what to look for.
   
  David C. Lane 
   

       
---------------------------------
Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070629/23f68c41/attachment.html>

From millerc at cantonpl.org  Fri Jun 29 10:27:41 2007
From: millerc at cantonpl.org (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 10:27:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Finding CD-ROM
In-Reply-To: <470088.34485.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33E0D@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<470088.34485.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <24933.66.51.146.97.1183127261.squirrel@mail.cantonpl.org>

David Lane wrote:
>   I'm loading Suse 10.1 on a box that I built. While loading it cant find
> the cd-rom of the dvd.
>
>   Does any body know what to look for.

I know this can happen if you have a SATA cd or dvd drive.
If it is SATA, try doing a Google search to see if someone
has a good fix for SuSE.

c




From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 29 10:32:08 2007
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 07:32:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Finding CD-ROM
In-Reply-To: <24933.66.51.146.97.1183127261.squirrel@mail.cantonpl.org>
Message-ID: <145572.70501.qm@web37912.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Are SATA drives harder to deal with?
   
   
  
"Carl T. Miller" <millerc at cantonpl.org> wrote:
  David Lane wrote:
> I'm loading Suse 10.1 on a box that I built. While loading it cant find
> the cd-rom of the dvd.
>
> Does any body know what to look for.

I know this can happen if you have a SATA cd or dvd drive.
If it is SATA, try doing a Google search to see if someone
has a good fix for SuSE.

c


_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


       
---------------------------------
Choose the right car based on your needs.  Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070629/edd99989/attachment.html>

From millerc at cantonpl.org  Fri Jun 29 11:02:13 2007
From: millerc at cantonpl.org (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 11:02:13 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Finding CD-ROM
In-Reply-To: <145572.70501.qm@web37912.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <24933.66.51.146.97.1183127261.squirrel@mail.cantonpl.org>
	<145572.70501.qm@web37912.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <28048.66.51.146.97.1183129333.squirrel@mail.cantonpl.org>

David Lane wrote:
> Are SATA drives harder to deal with?

They're not supposed to be, but sometimes they are.  One
computer I saw has a SATA controller that only works with
hard drives and not with cdroms or dvds.  Usually when
SATA stuff doesn't work as expected it will turn out to
be either weird hardware or the need for a special driver
or a newer kernel.

c




From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 29 11:08:31 2007
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 08:08:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Finding CD-ROM
In-Reply-To: <28048.66.51.146.97.1183129333.squirrel@mail.cantonpl.org>
Message-ID: <201863.83864.qm@web37909.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Could a wierd mother board be a problem?
   
  David 
   
  

"Carl T. Miller" <millerc at cantonpl.org> wrote:
  David Lane wrote:
> Are SATA drives harder to deal with?

They're not supposed to be, but sometimes they are. One
computer I saw has a SATA controller that only works with
hard drives and not with cdroms or dvds. Usually when
SATA stuff doesn't work as expected it will turn out to
be either weird hardware or the need for a special driver
or a newer kernel.

c


_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


       
---------------------------------
Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070629/e859469b/attachment.html>

From millerc at cantonpl.org  Fri Jun 29 11:12:12 2007
From: millerc at cantonpl.org (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 11:12:12 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Finding CD-ROM
In-Reply-To: <201863.83864.qm@web37909.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <28048.66.51.146.97.1183129333.squirrel@mail.cantonpl.org>
	<201863.83864.qm@web37909.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <29294.66.51.146.97.1183129932.squirrel@mail.cantonpl.org>

David Lane wrote:
> Could a wierd mother board be a problem?

Could be.  Try doing a Google search for the motherboard's
part number, Linux, SATA and DVD.  You'll find out if there are
known issues and hopefully you'll also find a fix.

c




From driveray at ameritech.net  Fri Jun 29 11:54:54 2007
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 11:54:54 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Finding CD-ROM
In-Reply-To: <470088.34485.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <470088.34485.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <46852B4E.9030300@ameritech.net>

David Lane wrote:

> I'm loading Suse 10.1 on a box that I built. While loading it cant find
> the cd-rom of the dvd.
>  
> Does any body know what to look for.
>  
> David C. Lane
>  

I don't know about Suse 10.1, but Opensuse 10.2 installs fine from a
sata DVD drive. It might be the newer kernel, or it might be a different
motherboard. Getting the newer version couldn't hurt.

I take it you mean that the installer starts up, but the install fails
because it can't find the packages, etc on the disk?



From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 29 11:52:04 2007
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 08:52:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Finding CD-ROM
In-Reply-To: <46852B4E.9030300@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <615568.38597.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

The CD/DVD rom is IDE but the HD is SATA and the mother board is and off brand.
   
  I may have to get MSI or ASUS.
   
  David 
  

Raymond McLaughlin <driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
  David Lane wrote:

> I'm loading Suse 10.1 on a box that I built. While loading it cant find
> the cd-rom of the dvd.
> 
> Does any body know what to look for.
> 
> David C. Lane
> 

I don't know about Suse 10.1, but Opensuse 10.2 installs fine from a
sata DVD drive. It might be the newer kernel, or it might be a different
motherboard. Getting the newer version couldn't hurt.

I take it you mean that the installer starts up, but the install fails
because it can't find the packages, etc on the disk?

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


       
---------------------------------
Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070629/51135934/attachment.html>

From cvweiss at gmail.com  Fri Jun 29 12:15:59 2007
From: cvweiss at gmail.com (Clinton V. Weiss)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 12:15:59 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Finding CD-ROM
In-Reply-To: <615568.38597.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <46852B4E.9030300@ameritech.net>
	<615568.38597.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <f0e9fe590706290915m72004366l80675d85f42f0180@mail.gmail.com>

A couple of weeks ago I installed Gentoo on my system with no
problems, until I tried to boot into my installed system.  It could
not find the real_root drive /dev/sda3 (/boot was on /dev/sda1).

I had to recompile the kernel to include the SATA support into the
kernel, not as a module.  Check your grub/lilo boot parameters and see
if real_root is defined.


-- 
Clinton V. Weiss
cvweiss at gmail.com


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Fri Jun 29 15:42:22 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 15:42:22 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel panic
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33E0D@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <267792.90131.qm@web55501.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
	<41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33E0D@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706291242t1c3bab1cm7559f57e09b0efc0@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/29/07, Ingles, Raymond <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:
> Repeated kernel panics tend to be a sign of hardware issues.

I recently had an unstable system that was caused by the Socket 478
CPU coming out of it's socket.  I think the heavy heat sink was
putting uneven pressure on it.


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 29 16:07:08 2007
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 13:07:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Finding CD-ROM
In-Reply-To: <46852B4E.9030300@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <203631.32294.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

What mother board?
  

Raymond McLaughlin <driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
  David Lane wrote:

> I'm loading Suse 10.1 on a box that I built. While loading it cant find
> the cd-rom of the dvd.
> 
> Does any body know what to look for.
> 
> David C. Lane
> 

I don't know about Suse 10.1, but Opensuse 10.2 installs fine from a
sata DVD drive. It might be the newer kernel, or it might be a different
motherboard. Getting the newer version couldn't hurt.

I take it you mean that the installer starts up, but the install fails
because it can't find the packages, etc on the disk?

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


       
---------------------------------
Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070629/50fb2995/attachment.html>

From rrclark at rrclark.net  Fri Jun 29 16:38:46 2007
From: rrclark at rrclark.net (Rich Clark <rrclark@rrclark.net>)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 16:38:46 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Networking
In-Reply-To: <20070624211610.EBU60299@mirapointms6.wayne.edu>
References: <20070624211610.EBU60299@mirapointms6.wayne.edu>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.0.81.0706291637470.13180@rich.rrclark.net>

On Sun, 24 Jun 2007, David Lee Lambert wrote:

> --- Original message ----
> >Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:03:02 -0400
> >From: Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> 
> >
> >I have a Linux box and an XP box on a peer to peer network.  I want the
> >two to talk as seamlessly as possible.
>
>     To run graphical programs across the network from Windows, install 
> the Cygwin X server, or start a new VNC desktop with "vncserver" and 
> access it with a Windows VNC client.

Here's another good option:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/xming


From rrclark at rrclark.net  Fri Jun 29 16:47:31 2007
From: rrclark at rrclark.net (Rich Clark <rrclark@rrclark.net>)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 16:47:31 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
In-Reply-To: <dd889b430706262158i69392596p2a96d6490bb148d6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4681E727.9050003@comcast.net>
	<dd889b430706262158i69392596p2a96d6490bb148d6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.0.81.0706291646050.13180@rich.rrclark.net>

On Wed, 27 Jun 2007, Joseph Vartanian wrote:
> 
> Just to get you to maybe believe what I'm saying, think about
> this...Why would they need 6 years to develop this OS if all they did
> was to add 3D effect to the GUI and some DRM?  I'm not defending (or
> bashing) Vista...I'm just pointing out that it's not Windows XP 3D
> Edition like most people seem to think.

Ask me to believe in Santa Claus and the Man in the Moon at the same time, 
will you? The problem lies in too few eyeballs on too much code. They 
still rely on backwards compatibility with ancient applications, so they 
couldn't have strayed too far from the original XP code base. Otherwise, 
proof, please?


From rrclark at rrclark.net  Fri Jun 29 17:06:55 2007
From: rrclark at rrclark.net (Rich Clark <rrclark@rrclark.net>)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 17:06:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
In-Reply-To: <dd889b430706270831o3638c6a9hf3e14dcc78ca45c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd889b430706262158i69392596p2a96d6490bb148d6@mail.gmail.com>
	<41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DFC@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<dd889b430706270831o3638c6a9hf3e14dcc78ca45c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.0.81.0706291703130.13180@rich.rrclark.net>

On Wed, 27 Jun 2007, Joseph Vartanian wrote:

> *  The software firewall is now bi-directional
> *  IPSec and domain isolation are now integrated into the firewall
> *  IE now runs in Protected mode (sandboxed)
> *  Network Access Protection (NAP) allows admins check a machine's
> software for compliance, and only allow access to resources for
> compliant machines, or get non-compliant machine up to compliance.
> *  New image format, WIM, allows for nondestructive and
> hardware-agnostic image based OS deployment
> *  WIM images can be maintained offline (no need to restore them,
> modify them, and create new images like before)
> *  Lot and lots of new Group Policies settings.  I think Microsoft
> said they had over 700 new ones.  For those who don't know what Group
> Policies are, just know that 700 new ones is a huge thing.
> *  Powershell (yes, it's a Unix shell knockoff)
> *  Most admin tasks that used to be don't with the GUI only can now
> also be done via command like (yes, Unix again)
> *  New or improved diagnostics tools
> *  Improved auditing.  For example, Vista can forward critical audit
> data to a central location

I think we know now what MS paid SCO for. So much of this sounds like 
stuff that had been packaged as updates to SCOs legacy UNIX crap.




From tesral at comcast.net  Fri Jun 29 17:35:12 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 17:35:12 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.0.81.0706291646050.13180@rich.rrclark.net>
References: <4681E727.9050003@comcast.net>	<dd889b430706262158i69392596p2a96d6490bb148d6@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LRH.0.81.0706291646050.13180@rich.rrclark.net>
Message-ID: <46857B10.4040701@comcast.net>

Rich Clark <rrclark at rrclark.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Jun 2007, Joseph Vartanian wrote:
>   
>> Just to get you to maybe believe what I'm saying, think about
>> this...Why would they need 6 years to develop this OS if all they did
>> was to add 3D effect to the GUI and some DRM?  I'm not defending (or
>> bashing) Vista...I'm just pointing out that it's not Windows XP 3D
>> Edition like most people seem to think.
>>     
>
> Ask me to believe in Santa Claus and the Man in the Moon at the same time, 
> will you? The problem lies in too few eyeballs on too much code. They 
> still rely on backwards compatibility with ancient applications, so they 
> couldn't have strayed too far from the original XP code base. Otherwise, 
> proof, please?
>   

But you CAN'T!!  The source is closed.  Black boxes, nothing but black
boxes and thanks to Tinylimp lawyers buying law you are not allowed to
take them apart. 

Ergo, Tinylimp can make all the claims about how fresh and new the whole
thing is and it cannot be verified, period.  They could claim the code
was debugged by being passed through the digestive tracts of llamas
(instead of the usual male cattle), and you could neither confirm or
deny it.

Yes, they added some features, they added nifty and spiffy.  As to how
new any of it is?  No one without a gag order slapped down on them can
tell.  So they can't tell.

I'm willing the bet that the whole reason for the delays in Vista
release was the DRM.  It cannot work, they tried they really tried, but
in the end it cannot work.  However Tinylimp is so eager to suck the
RIAA and MIAA that they delayed the product trying to get it to work.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From freemancomputer at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 29 22:44:04 2007
From: freemancomputer at yahoo.com (jack freeman)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 19:44:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel panic
Message-ID: <256661.88578.qm@web55514.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

Seeing how i just moved it from Detroit it wouldn't surprise me. Ill have to reset everything. 

thanks
Jack

----- Original Message ----
From: Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 2:42:22 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Kernel panic

On 6/29/07, Ingles, Raymond <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:
> Repeated kernel panics tend to be a sign of hardware issues.

I recently had an unstable system that was caused by the Socket 478
CPU coming out of it's socket.  I think the heavy heat sink was
putting uneven pressure on it.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug







       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
http://sims.yahoo.com/  
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070629/aa67bdd6/attachment.html>

From davidl at lmert.com  Sat Jun 30 00:09:05 2007
From: davidl at lmert.com (David Lee Lambert)
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 00:09:05 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] APC UPS advice
Message-ID: <200706300009.10122.davidl@lmert.com>

I got a new toy today:  an APC "Back-UPS XS 900" UPS (model BX900R).  I 
plugged it in for the initial battery-charge an hour or two ago... only 18 
hours left.

It came with a USB interface cable (usb on one end,  RJ-45 on the other;  the 
RJ-45 jack fits into the UPS).  I tried plugging it into the server I'll be 
running off it and installing the Debian "nut" and "nut-usb" packages.  
However,  "lsusb" doesn't show any new devices,  even after "modprobe usbhid" 
and "modprobe usb-serial".  (I know the USB card is working because I have a 
thumb drive plugged into it;  I'm using part of said thumb drive as a swap 
partition.)

Kernel 2.6.14.5.

Is there some setting I need to tweak to get this cable to work?  Should I 
just give up and try a serial cable instead?  Does the cable not work until 
the UPS is fully charged?

-- 
David Lee Lambert ... Software Developer
Cell phone: +1 586-873-8813 ; alt. email <as4109 at wayne.edu> or 
<lamber45 at msu.edu>
GPG key at http://www.lmert.com/keyring.txt


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sat Jun 30 00:25:35 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 00:25:35 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] APC UPS advice
In-Reply-To: <200706300009.10122.davidl@lmert.com>
References: <200706300009.10122.davidl@lmert.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706292125v497dc59bh5e0c1c032d635b65@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/30/07, David Lee Lambert <davidl at lmert.com> wrote:
> However,  "lsusb" doesn't show any new devices,  even after "modprobe usbhid"
> and "modprobe usb-serial".  (I know the USB card is working because I have a
> thumb drive plugged into it;  I'm using part of said thumb drive as a swap
> partition.)

It should show up.  Try a different cable.  There is nothing in the
manual that indicates any other configuration is required.  Maybe
check their knowledge base:
nam-en.apc.com/cgi-bin/nam_en.cfg/php/enduser/std_alp.php?p_sid=F4SJroFi&p_lva=&p_li=&p_accessibility=0&p_page=1&p_cv=&p_pv=1.1596&p_prods=1596&p_cats=&p_hidden_prods=&prod_lvl1=1596&prod_lvl2=0&p_search_text=USB&p_new_search=1&p_search_type=answers.search_nl


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Sat Jun 30 02:22:27 2007
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 02:22:27 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel panic
In-Reply-To: <564977.74961.qm@web55506.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <564977.74961.qm@web55506.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380706292322i73ad5524tcd7c62a4b1065368@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/26/07, Jack Freeman wrote:

> I am having a problem with my web server booting. At times when it tries to
> boot I get a "kernel panic - not syncing: fatal exception in interrupt".

Check for this:
"The capacitor plague (also known as Bad Capacitors, Bad Caps or
Bloated Capacitors)"
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague>

It's amazing how many mobos still have this problem...

-- Mikey


From driveray at ameritech.net  Sat Jun 30 07:58:05 2007
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 07:58:05 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Finding CD-ROM
In-Reply-To: <203631.32294.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <203631.32294.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4686454D.9090509@ameritech.net>

It's an 'nForce650i Ultra' manufactured by EVGA, "designed by NVidia".
I've used EVGA video cards for several years, they make reasonably
priced G-Force, etc cards. This mobo, with the same brand of e-GeForce
7600 GT 256MB PCI-E graphics adapter, plus a 3GHz Pentium-D dual core
processor, 1GB of Kingston DDR2, and a pair of 160GB WD SATA drives
comprise the main componants of a new system I put together for my
sister-in-law. She suffered a bad capacitor blowup, and this was as
cheap as I could bear to go.

By the way, do you need to run SuSE 10.1? I never heard much good about
it. 10.2 is better, at least by reputation. They've done some things
that I don't like (in addition with their flirtation with EVIL), but
over all it works well. I chose it because I understand SuSE in general,
and once delivered I will need to support it at a distance.



David Lane wrote:
> What mother board?
> 
> 
> */Raymond McLaughlin <driveray at ameritech.net>/* wrote:
>
>     I don't know about Suse 10.1, but Opensuse 10.2 installs fine from
>     a sata DVD drive. It might be the newer kernel, or it might be a
>     different motherboard. Getting the newer version couldn't hurt.
>
>     I take it you mean that the installer starts up, but the install
>     fails because it can't find the packages, etc on the disk?

> 
>     David Lane wrote:
> 
>     > I'm loading Suse 10.1 on a box that I built. While loading it cant
>     find
>     > the cd-rom of the dvd.
>     >
>     > Does any body know what to look for.
>     >
>     > David C. Lane
>     >


From as4109 at wayne.edu  Sat Jun 30 08:09:40 2007
From: as4109 at wayne.edu (Daud Lee Lambert)
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 08:09:40 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] APC UPS advice
References: <200706300009.10122.davidl@lmert.com>
	<b02c40e90706292125v497dc59bh5e0c1c032d635b65@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003301c7bb0f$89768d20$060fa8c0@lmert.com>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeff Hanson" <jhansonxi at gmail.com>
To: "MDLUG's Main discussion list" <mdlug at mdlug.org>


> On 6/30/07, David Lee Lambert <davidl at lmert.com> wrote:
> > However,  "lsusb" doesn't show any new devices,  even after "modprobe
usbhid"

> It should show up.  Try a different cable.  There is nothing in the
> manual that indicates any other configuration is required.  Maybe
> check their knowledge base:

Thanks.  I don't see anything in that knowledge base,  but I'll look more
carefully.

I tried the cable with a system that can boot Windows ME.  The "APC
PowerChute" sotware installed fine when the UPS was connected,  and is able
to talk to the UPS.  I tried unplugging and re-plugging the cable while both
the UPS and the computer were on;  the PowerChute software noticed the
disconnection, and reconnected just fine afterwards.

Here's some console output from the server, after plugging the UPS back in
to it:

ramoth# uname -a
Linux ramoth 2.6.14.5 #1 Sun May 13 23:39:42 EDT 2007 i586 GNU/Linux
ramoth# lsusb
Bus 001 Device 002: ID 08ec:0012 M-Systems Flash Disk Pioneers
Bus 001 Device 001: ID 0000:0000
ramoth# lsmod | grep usb
usblp                  12288  0
usbhid                 45056  0
usbserial              28680  0
usb_storage            61376  3
scsi_mod               94408  2 usb_storage,sd_mod
ramoth#




From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sat Jun 30 11:34:59 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 11:34:59 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] APC UPS advice
In-Reply-To: <003301c7bb0f$89768d20$060fa8c0@lmert.com>
References: <200706300009.10122.davidl@lmert.com>
	<b02c40e90706292125v497dc59bh5e0c1c032d635b65@mail.gmail.com>
	<003301c7bb0f$89768d20$060fa8c0@lmert.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706300834v14c655f0x56f36beb7ad2744b@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/30/07, Daud Lee Lambert <as4109 at wayne.edu> wrote:
> ramoth# uname -a
> Linux ramoth 2.6.14.5 #1 Sun May 13 23:39:42 EDT 2007 i586 GNU/Linux
> ramoth# lsusb
> Bus 001 Device 002: ID 08ec:0012 M-Systems Flash Disk Pioneers
> Bus 001 Device 001: ID 0000:0000
> ramoth# lsmod | grep usb
> usblp                  12288  0
> usbhid                 45056  0
> usbserial              28680  0
> usb_storage            61376  3
> scsi_mod               94408  2 usb_storage,sd_mod
> ramoth#

Is the Flash disk actually there?  If not, it's possibly being
misidentified.  A lsusb -v -d <address> should give more info.


From drew4096 at gmail.com  Sat Jun 30 16:01:54 2007
From: drew4096 at gmail.com (Drew)
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 16:01:54 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] APC UPS advice
In-Reply-To: <200706300009.10122.davidl@lmert.com>
Message-ID: <etPan.4686b6b2.66346877.617@zaurus>

* David Lee Lambert <davidl at lmert.com> wrote on 06:09:05:
> I got a new toy today:  an APC "Back-UPS XS 900" UPS (model BX900R).

<snip>
> 
>  I tried plugging it into the server I'll be 
> running off it and installing the Debian "nut" and "nut-usb" packages.  
> However,  "lsusb" doesn't show any new devices,  even after "modprobe usbhid" 
> and "modprobe usb-serial". 

You might want to try apcupsd. I have a 500, same interface, and it works well for me.

(I know the USB card is working because I have a 
> thumb drive plugged into it;  I'm using part of said thumb drive as a swap 
> partition.)

You are aware, are you not, that flash memory such as is in a thumb drive only lasts for a  limited number of writes?

----

- Drew.

> 
> Kernel 2.6.14.5.
> 
> Is there some setting I need to tweak to get this cable to work?  Should I 
> just give up and try a serial cable instead?  Does the cable not work until 
> the UPS is fully charged?
> 
> -- 
> David Lee Lambert ... Software Developer
> Cell phone: +1 586-873-8813 ; alt. email <as4109 at wayne.edu> or 
> <lamber45 at msu.edu>
> GPG key at http://www.lmert.com/keyring.txt
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Sat Jun 30 17:14:34 2007
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 17:14:34 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] APC UPS advice
In-Reply-To: <etPan.4686b6b2.66346877.617@zaurus>
References: <200706300009.10122.davidl@lmert.com>
	<etPan.4686b6b2.66346877.617@zaurus>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380706301414h73e7ecfdg2d25bd159c61e715@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/30/07, Drew wrote:

> David Lee Lambert wrote:

> > I got a new toy today:  an APC "Back-UPS XS 900" UPS (model BX900R).

<snip>

> You are aware, are you not, that flash memory such as is in a thumb drive only lasts for a  limited number of writes?

One of the side benefits of WinVista (minor, to be sure) is that the
so-called "ReadyBoost"-certified flash drives are designed for
repeated, multiple writes.  Even so, I agree with Drew: flash drives
are NOT suitable for a swap partition because of the TYPE of
read/write cycling involved-- it's much better on an actual hard
drive.

The new hard drives made by Samsung and others that incorporate
flash-memory buffers use special load-spreading write techniques and
specially-manufactured flash chips (originally designed for the OLPC
Project) to lengthen the useful life of the drive-- including built-in
bypasses if the chips fail beyond a certain percentage of capacity.

-- Mikey


From wolfger at gmail.com  Fri Jun  1 07:32:17 2007
From: wolfger at gmail.com (Wolfger)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 07:32:17 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE!
Message-ID: <3b00b3330706010432q6a974415r469a306223debc4c@mail.gmail.com>

http://lolcode.com/home

-- 
Wolfger
http://wolfger.wordpress.com/
http://1fjordaroad.wordpress.com/
AOL IM: wolf4coyot
Yahoo!Messenger: wolfgersilberbaer
Skype: wolfger88


From radkins at impelind.com  Fri Jun  1 08:41:06 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 08:41:06 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE!
In-Reply-To: <3b00b3330706010432q6a974415r469a306223debc4c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3b00b3330706010432q6a974415r469a306223debc4c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <466013E2.2000208@impelind.com>

Is it wrong that I actually understand the "code"?

Wolfger wrote:
> http://lolcode.com/home
>
>   


From micorral at comcast.net  Fri Jun  1 10:35:59 2007
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 10:35:59 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Subject: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE!
Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.4.64.0706011034140.2540@w2zzzp0601.amer.corp.eds.com>

Wolfger a ecrit:
> http://lolcode.com/home

Well, it is more readable...

Michael


From ebradley01 at wowway.com  Fri Jun  1 13:10:40 2007
From: ebradley01 at wowway.com (ebradley01 at wowway.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 13:10:40 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] President's mail bag - Store to offer Linux preinstalled
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1180713601.11527.mdlug@mdlug.org>
References: <mailman.3.1180713601.11527.mdlug@mdlug.org>
Message-ID: <20070601170512.M9124@wowway.com>

<snip>

We are also considering offering preloaded laptops. Currently
I have an Ubuntu 7.04 system decked out with the full Compiz/Beryl 3D
desktop. The reaction to it has been overwhelmingly positive. It is
helping to show that Linux is ready for home use.

The Sytem Specs are:
AMD Athlon 64 3200+
1 GB DDR2 Memory
80 GB SATA2 Hard Drive
18X Dual Layer DVD Burner
MSI Nvidia 7300GT PCIe Card

We are selling the system for $399.

</snip>

This seems like a really good deal to me...at least, when taken at face-value.
 Anything other than the above specs that should be considered when pricing a
laptop for general usage purposes? (Internet, email, multimedia playback, no
games...)  

Just looking to get everyone's opinion...


Evan

--
"The road of life is rocky, and you may stumble too.  So while you point your
finger; someone else is judging you."  --Bob Marley


---------- Original Message -----------
From: mdlug-request at mdlug.org
To: mdlug at mdlug.org
Sent: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 12:00:01 -0400
Subject: mdlug Digest, Vol 10, Issue 1

> Send mdlug mailing list submissions to
> 	mdlug at mdlug.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	mdlug-request at mdlug.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	mdlug-owner at mdlug.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of mdlug digest..."
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Converting DVDs to play on a Palm (Ingles, Raymond)
>    2. President's mail bag - Store to offer Linux preinstalled
>       (Raymond McLaughlin)
>    3. Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE! (Wolfger)
>    4. Re: Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE! (Robert Adkins)
>    5. Re: Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE! (Michael Corral)
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 18:03:18 -0400
> From: "Ingles, Raymond" <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com>
> Subject: [mdlug] Converting DVDs to play on a Palm
> To: "Mdlug (E-mail)" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DAB at nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
> 	
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
>  I got a spare 512MB SD card and decided to try this out, since I'd 
> heard of people doing it. So, I did some googling and put together a 
> script or two to handle this.
> 
>  Basically, you use "mencoder" to read the DVD and convert it to 
> DIVX format, scaling the video to fit the 320x320 screen. I also 
> compress the audio to 128Kbit MP3 format, since I don't need a Dolby 
> soundtrack. :-> I've had very good results with a 224Mbit/sec video 
> rate. It looks quite good on the screen, better than VHS (certainly 
> richer color).
> 
>  Last night I converted the movie "Aliens". It's a 154-minute movie 
> in 16x9 format. It converted down to a 320x180 image, and takes up 
> 403MB on the card. That took approximately an hour and twenty 
> minutes on my dual-2GHz Athlon system. (If I used one-pass encoding 
> it would have been about half that.)
> 
> I let the movie run all the way through (two hours and 34 minutes) 
> today as the Treo 650 sat on my desk as I worked (with the sound 
> muted) and my battery went from 99% to 77%. Not bad.
> 
>  It's a toy, sure, but might be fun on a long trip. I could fit five 
> or six half-hour TV shows on my card easily. Anyway, if anyone's 
> interested, the script I use is below.
> 
>  Sincerely,
> 
>  Ray Ingles                                   (313) 227-2317
> 
>  "Computers let you make more mistakes faster than any other
>  invention in human history, with the possible exception of
>         handguns and tequila." - Mitch Radcliffe
> 
> ---begin dvd2palm.sh---
> #!/bin/sh
> 
> # Converts DVDs to AVI files suitable for viewing on a Palm w/TCPMP
> 
> # If you're skipping frames, increase FPS. If duplicating, decrease FPS.
> # Usual values are 24000/1001 (23.976), 24, 25 (PAL), 30000/1001 (29.97), 30.
> FPS=24000/1001
> 
> # My Palm has a 320x320 screen. If you have a 480x320 screen, try "480" here.
> SCALEW=320
> 
> # Set audio mode - these are arranged in decreasing order of likelyhood
> # to sync properly
> 
> # Full AC3 audio, takes up a fair amount of space.
> #AUDIO=copy
> # Constant bit rate MP3, the 'br' field sets the bit rate
> AUDIO="mp3lame -lameopts cbr:br=128"
> # Average bit rate MP3, the 'br' field sets the bit rate
> #AUDIO="mp3lame -lameopts abr:br=128"
> # Variable bit rate MP3, sometimes has sync problems
> #AUDIO="mp3lame -lameopts vbr=3"
> 
> # Set crop, if needed
> # Get these numbers by running the command: mplayer -ss 60 -vf
scale=320:-2,cropdetect dvd://[track number]
> #CROP=",crop=320:160:0:28"
> 
> # For mixed progressive/telecined content
> #PULLUP=",pullup,softskip"
> 
> # Set video bit rate, feel free to experiment here to see what fits
> VBITRATE=224
> #VBITRATE=336
> #VBITRATE=448
> 
> # Use DIVX
> DIVX="-ffourcc divx"
> 
> # These are the key parameters we gotta have from the user.
> # Spaces in the output file name are probably not a good idea.
> DVDTITLE=$1
> NEWNAME=$2.avi
> 
> # These are optional parameters that can be tweaked but have default values.
> # You might want to change the default to match your system.
> DVDDEV=${3:-"/dev/dvd"}
> # 128 is the default audio track on a DVD, usually
> AUDIOTRACK=${4:-128}
> 
> # Make sure we got the minimum info needed.
> if [ -z "${DVDTITLE}" -o -z "$2" ]; then
>  echo "Usage: " $0 " dvd-title output-name [dvd-device] [audio-
> track]" exit -1 fi
> 
> # Just in case one's left over from a previous encoding run.
> rm -rf divx2pass.log
> 
> # Two-pass encoding, takes longer but produces best quality for a given bitrate
> mencoder -dvd-device ${DVDDEV} dvd://${DVDTITLE} -aid ${AUDIOTRACK} -
> ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg4:vpass=1:vbi trate=${VBITRATE} -ofps 
> ${FPS} ${DIVX} -oac ${AUDIO} -vf scale=${SCALEW}:-2${CROP}${PULLUP} -
> o /dev/null
> 
> mencoder -dvd-device ${DVDDEV} dvd://${DVDTITLE} -aid ${AUDIOTRACK} -
> ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg4:vpass=2:vbi trate=${VBITRATE} -ofps 
> ${FPS} ${DIVX} -oac ${AUDIO} -vf scale=${SCALEW}:-2${CROP}${PULLUP} -
> o ${NEWNAME}
> 
> # Clean up after ourselves.
> rm -rf divx2pass.log
> ----end dvd2palm.sh----
> 
> The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee 
> only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you 
> are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy 
> or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in 
> error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 23:45:25 -0400
> From: Raymond McLaughlin <driveray at ameritech.net>
> Subject: [mdlug] President's mail bag - Store to offer Linux
> 	preinstalled
> To: "mdlug at mdlug.org" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Message-ID: <465F9655.8010007 at ameritech.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> Mr. Hughs,
> 
> Thank you for contacting me. I find your idea both intriguing and
> exciting. Right now I am swamped with other pressing business, but I
> hope to be able to provide more extensive input in the next few weeks.
> 
> For the time being I will pass your letter on to our membership. I must
> tell you that Computer Builders Warehouse got something of a bad
> reputation in our group a couple of years ago. If I recall they were
> promoting questionable MS 'facts' of some sort. I don't recall the
> details off hand. Your project could go a long ways toward changing this.
> 
> I hope to be able to drop by your store some time in the next few weeks.
> Is there any chance that your store could accommodate a "mini 
> meeting" of about a dozen people? Just a thought. In the mean time I 
> suggest that you join one or more of our mailing lists to get an 
> idea of our group's inclinations. Be warned that purely commercial 
> postings are considered spam, and greatly frowned upon.
> 
> I hope to see you soon
> Raymond McLaughlin
> President MDLUG
> 
> Rich Hughes wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello Mr. McLaughlin,
> > >
> > > My name is Rich Hughes, I manage the Computer Builders Warehouse store
> > > inside Great Lakes Crossing. I also run www.linuxtechdaily.com
> > > <http://www.linuxtechdaily.com> and have written for other Linux
> websites.
> > >
> > > I'm writing to announce to you and your group that my store in Great
> > > Lakes Crossing has been approved for a pilot program, offering Linux
> > > based systems. If it is successful it will expand to our other
> > > locations. We are also considering offering preloaded laptops. Currently
> > > I have an Ubuntu 7.04 system decked out with the full Compiz/Beryl 3D
> > > desktop. The reaction to it has been overwhelmingly positive. It is
> > > helping to show that Linux is ready for home use.
> > >
> > > The Sytem Specs are:
> > > AMD Athlon 64 3200+
> > > 1 GB DDR2 Memory
> > > 80 GB SATA2 Hard Drive
> > > 18X Dual Layer DVD Burner
> > > MSI Nvidia 7300GT PCIe Card
> > >
> > > We are selling the system for $399.  We have the ability to custom build
> > > any system and load any version of Linux on it, but are trying this
> > > combo out to see how it does. I believe our non-propriatery, open
> > > architecture systems are a perfect match for Free Software.
> > >
> > > Frankly, I'm asking for MDLUG's support. I think there is enormous
> > > potential for success here. With the failure of Vista, and the strides
> > > Linux is making, I think now is the time. I'd love to get your members
> > > out here into the store to check out this system.
> > >
> > > I'm also interested in feedback in what systems people might be
> > > interested in. Distro, system specs, etc...
> > > If anyone wants to check out our website www.cbwstores.com
> > > <http://www.cbwstores.com> , look at our stock and let me know what they
> > > would be interested in, I'd be happy to email back a coupon. My email is
> > > rhughes at cbwstores.com <mailto:rhughes at cbwstores.com> .
> > >
> > > I appreciate your time, I hope your group gets excited about this. I
> > > think it is a great opportunity for the community, and for our stores.
> > > Feel free to call at any time or drop me an email.
> > >
> > > Thank You,
> > >
> > > Rich Hughes
> > > Store Manager
> > >
> > > Computer Builders Warehouse
> > > Great Lakes Crossing
> > > 4354 Baldwin Road - Ste. 708
> > > Auburn Hills, MI 48326
> > > Tel: (248) 334-3061
> > > Fax: (248) 334-5373
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 07:32:17 -0400
> From: Wolfger <wolfger at gmail.com>
> Subject: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE!
> To: "MDLUG Main" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<3b00b3330706010432q6a974415r469a306223debc4c at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> http://lolcode.com/home
> 
> -- 
> Wolfger
> http://wolfger.wordpress.com/
> http://1fjordaroad.wordpress.com/
> AOL IM: wolf4coyot
> Yahoo!Messenger: wolfgersilberbaer
> Skype: wolfger88
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 08:41:06 -0400
> From: Robert Adkins <radkins at impelind.com>
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE!
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Message-ID: <466013E2.2000208 at impelind.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> Is it wrong that I actually understand the "code"?
> 
> Wolfger wrote:
> > http://lolcode.com/home
> >
> >
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 10:35:59 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
> From: Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE!
> To: MDLUG <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<Pine.WNT.4.64.0706011034140.2540 at w2zzzp0601.amer.corp.eds.com>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
> 
> Wolfger a ecrit:
> > http://lolcode.com/home
> 
> Well, it is more readable...
> 
> Michael
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 
> End of mdlug Digest, Vol 10, Issue 1
> ************************************
------- End of Original Message -------



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Fri Jun  1 13:32:01 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 13:32:01 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] President's mail bag - Store to offer Linux preinstalled
In-Reply-To: <20070601170512.M9124@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DB2@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>


> From: ebradley01 at wowway.com

>> We are also considering offering preloaded laptops.

>> We are selling the system for $399.

> This seems like a really good deal to me...at least, when 
> taken at face-value.

 I'm pretty sure that's for a *desktop*, not a laptop, and no monitor,
though I can see where the phrasing would be confusing. A laptop with
those specs at that price would be a ridiculously good value.

 Even so, I'd be tempted to pick up such a machine at that price.
That'd be a heck of a nice desktop machine.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                                 (313) 227-2317

 "I do not contribute anything material to the competitive landscape. I am
  there to give players of actual merit a break between epic struggles."
                                - Tycho

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. 


From god_of_lemmings at usol.com  Fri Jun  1 14:57:25 2007
From: god_of_lemmings at usol.com (God of Lemmings)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 14:57:25 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Fwd: President's mail bag - Store to offer Linux
	preinstalled
Message-ID: <2b422319b633d4c17beeda31dcc8fdeb@usol.com>


Note about the current nvidia video drivers:  The newer ones have a  
memory leak that nvidia has been
working on for a few months already, it appears when compositing is  
enabled, and such compositing
is required for Compiz and Beryl. You may wish to read about it at  
nvidia:s forums.



Begin forwarded message:

> From: ebradley01 at wowway.com
> Date: June 1, 2007 1:10:40 PM EST
> To: mdlug at mdlug.org
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] President's mail bag - Store to offer Linux  
> preinstalled
> Reply-To: "MDLUG's Main discussion list" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>
> <snip>
>
> We are also considering offering preloaded laptops. Currently
> I have an Ubuntu 7.04 system decked out with the full Compiz/Beryl 3D
> desktop. The reaction to it has been overwhelmingly positive. It is
> helping to show that Linux is ready for home use.
>
> The Sytem Specs are:
> AMD Athlon 64 3200+
> 1 GB DDR2 Memory
> 80 GB SATA2 Hard Drive
> 18X Dual Layer DVD Burner
> MSI Nvidia 7300GT PCIe Card
>
> We are selling the system for $399.
>
> </snip>
>
> This seems like a really good deal to me...at least, when taken at  
> face-value.
>  Anything other than the above specs that should be considered when  
> pricing a
> laptop for general usage purposes? (Internet, email, multimedia  
> playback, no
> games...)
>
> Just looking to get everyone's opinion...
>
>
> Evan
>
> --
> "The road of life is rocky, and you may stumble too.  So while you  
> point your
> finger; someone else is judging you."  --Bob Marley
>
>
> ---------- Original Message -----------
> From: mdlug-request at mdlug.org
> To: mdlug at mdlug.org
> Sent: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 12:00:01 -0400
> Subject: mdlug Digest, Vol 10, Issue 1
>
>> Send mdlug mailing list submissions to
>> 	mdlug at mdlug.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> 	http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> 	mdlug-request at mdlug.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> 	mdlug-owner at mdlug.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of mdlug digest..."
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>    1. Converting DVDs to play on a Palm (Ingles, Raymond)
>>    2. President's mail bag - Store to offer Linux preinstalled
>>       (Raymond McLaughlin)
>>    3. Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE! (Wolfger)
>>    4. Re: Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE! (Robert Adkins)
>>    5. Re: Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE! (Michael Corral)
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 18:03:18 -0400
>> From: "Ingles, Raymond" <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com>
>> Subject: [mdlug] Converting DVDs to play on a Palm
>> To: "Mdlug (E-mail)" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>> Message-ID:
>> 	<41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DAB at nasa-dtw- 
>> ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
>> 	
>> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>>  I got a spare 512MB SD card and decided to try this out, since I'd
>> heard of people doing it. So, I did some googling and put together a
>> script or two to handle this.
>>
>>  Basically, you use "mencoder" to read the DVD and convert it to
>> DIVX format, scaling the video to fit the 320x320 screen. I also
>> compress the audio to 128Kbit MP3 format, since I don't need a Dolby
>> soundtrack. :-> I've had very good results with a 224Mbit/sec video
>> rate. It looks quite good on the screen, better than VHS (certainly
>> richer color).
>>
>>  Last night I converted the movie "Aliens". It's a 154-minute movie
>> in 16x9 format. It converted down to a 320x180 image, and takes up
>> 403MB on the card. That took approximately an hour and twenty
>> minutes on my dual-2GHz Athlon system. (If I used one-pass encoding
>> it would have been about half that.)
>>
>> I let the movie run all the way through (two hours and 34 minutes)
>> today as the Treo 650 sat on my desk as I worked (with the sound
>> muted) and my battery went from 99% to 77%. Not bad.
>>
>>  It's a toy, sure, but might be fun on a long trip. I could fit five
>> or six half-hour TV shows on my card easily. Anyway, if anyone's
>> interested, the script I use is below.
>>
>>  Sincerely,
>>
>>  Ray Ingles                                   (313) 227-2317
>>
>>  "Computers let you make more mistakes faster than any other
>>  invention in human history, with the possible exception of
>>         handguns and tequila." - Mitch Radcliffe
>>
>> ---begin dvd2palm.sh---
>> #!/bin/sh
>>
>> # Converts DVDs to AVI files suitable for viewing on a Palm w/TCPMP
>>
>> # If you're skipping frames, increase FPS. If duplicating, decrease  
>> FPS.
>> # Usual values are 24000/1001 (23.976), 24, 25 (PAL), 30000/1001  
>> (29.97), 30.
>> FPS=24000/1001
>>
>> # My Palm has a 320x320 screen. If you have a 480x320 screen, try  
>> "480" here.
>> SCALEW=320
>>
>> # Set audio mode - these are arranged in decreasing order of  
>> likelyhood
>> # to sync properly
>>
>> # Full AC3 audio, takes up a fair amount of space.
>> #AUDIO=copy
>> # Constant bit rate MP3, the 'br' field sets the bit rate
>> AUDIO="mp3lame -lameopts cbr:br=128"
>> # Average bit rate MP3, the 'br' field sets the bit rate
>> #AUDIO="mp3lame -lameopts abr:br=128"
>> # Variable bit rate MP3, sometimes has sync problems
>> #AUDIO="mp3lame -lameopts vbr=3"
>>
>> # Set crop, if needed
>> # Get these numbers by running the command: mplayer -ss 60 -vf
> scale=320:-2,cropdetect dvd://[track number]
>> #CROP=",crop=320:160:0:28"
>>
>> # For mixed progressive/telecined content
>> #PULLUP=",pullup,softskip"
>>
>> # Set video bit rate, feel free to experiment here to see what fits
>> VBITRATE=224
>> #VBITRATE=336
>> #VBITRATE=448
>>
>> # Use DIVX
>> DIVX="-ffourcc divx"
>>
>> # These are the key parameters we gotta have from the user.
>> # Spaces in the output file name are probably not a good idea.
>> DVDTITLE=$1
>> NEWNAME=$2.avi
>>
>> # These are optional parameters that can be tweaked but have default  
>> values.
>> # You might want to change the default to match your system.
>> DVDDEV=${3:-"/dev/dvd"}
>> # 128 is the default audio track on a DVD, usually
>> AUDIOTRACK=${4:-128}
>>
>> # Make sure we got the minimum info needed.
>> if [ -z "${DVDTITLE}" -o -z "$2" ]; then
>>  echo "Usage: " $0 " dvd-title output-name [dvd-device] [audio-
>> track]" exit -1 fi
>>
>> # Just in case one's left over from a previous encoding run.
>> rm -rf divx2pass.log
>>
>> # Two-pass encoding, takes longer but produces best quality for a  
>> given bitrate
>> mencoder -dvd-device ${DVDDEV} dvd://${DVDTITLE} -aid ${AUDIOTRACK} -
>> ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg4:vpass=1:vbi trate=${VBITRATE} -ofps
>> ${FPS} ${DIVX} -oac ${AUDIO} -vf scale=${SCALEW}:-2${CROP}${PULLUP} -
>> o /dev/null
>>
>> mencoder -dvd-device ${DVDDEV} dvd://${DVDTITLE} -aid ${AUDIOTRACK} -
>> ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg4:vpass=2:vbi trate=${VBITRATE} -ofps
>> ${FPS} ${DIVX} -oac ${AUDIO} -vf scale=${SCALEW}:-2${CROP}${PULLUP} -
>> o ${NEWNAME}
>>
>> # Clean up after ourselves.
>> rm -rf divx2pass.log
>> ----end dvd2palm.sh----
>>
>> The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee
>> only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you
>> are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy
>> or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in
>> error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 23:45:25 -0400
>> From: Raymond McLaughlin <driveray at ameritech.net>
>> Subject: [mdlug] President's mail bag - Store to offer Linux
>> 	preinstalled
>> To: "mdlug at mdlug.org" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>> Message-ID: <465F9655.8010007 at ameritech.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> Mr. Hughs,
>>
>> Thank you for contacting me. I find your idea both intriguing and
>> exciting. Right now I am swamped with other pressing business, but I
>> hope to be able to provide more extensive input in the next few weeks.
>>
>> For the time being I will pass your letter on to our membership. I  
>> must
>> tell you that Computer Builders Warehouse got something of a bad
>> reputation in our group a couple of years ago. If I recall they were
>> promoting questionable MS 'facts' of some sort. I don't recall the
>> details off hand. Your project could go a long ways toward changing  
>> this.
>>
>> I hope to be able to drop by your store some time in the next few  
>> weeks.
>> Is there any chance that your store could accommodate a "mini
>> meeting" of about a dozen people? Just a thought. In the mean time I
>> suggest that you join one or more of our mailing lists to get an
>> idea of our group's inclinations. Be warned that purely commercial
>> postings are considered spam, and greatly frowned upon.
>>
>> I hope to see you soon
>> Raymond McLaughlin
>> President MDLUG
>>
>> Rich Hughes wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello Mr. McLaughlin,
>>>>
>>>> My name is Rich Hughes, I manage the Computer Builders Warehouse  
>>>> store
>>>> inside Great Lakes Crossing. I also run www.linuxtechdaily.com
>>>> <http://www.linuxtechdaily.com> and have written for other Linux
>> websites.
>>>>
>>>> I'm writing to announce to you and your group that my store in Great
>>>> Lakes Crossing has been approved for a pilot program, offering Linux
>>>> based systems. If it is successful it will expand to our other
>>>> locations. We are also considering offering preloaded laptops.  
>>>> Currently
>>>> I have an Ubuntu 7.04 system decked out with the full Compiz/Beryl  
>>>> 3D
>>>> desktop. The reaction to it has been overwhelmingly positive. It is
>>>> helping to show that Linux is ready for home use.
>>>>
>>>> The Sytem Specs are:
>>>> AMD Athlon 64 3200+
>>>> 1 GB DDR2 Memory
>>>> 80 GB SATA2 Hard Drive
>>>> 18X Dual Layer DVD Burner
>>>> MSI Nvidia 7300GT PCIe Card
>>>>
>>>> We are selling the system for $399.  We have the ability to custom  
>>>> build
>>>> any system and load any version of Linux on it, but are trying this
>>>> combo out to see how it does. I believe our non-propriatery, open
>>>> architecture systems are a perfect match for Free Software.
>>>>
>>>> Frankly, I'm asking for MDLUG's support. I think there is enormous
>>>> potential for success here. With the failure of Vista, and the  
>>>> strides
>>>> Linux is making, I think now is the time. I'd love to get your  
>>>> members
>>>> out here into the store to check out this system.
>>>>
>>>> I'm also interested in feedback in what systems people might be
>>>> interested in. Distro, system specs, etc...
>>>> If anyone wants to check out our website www.cbwstores.com
>>>> <http://www.cbwstores.com> , look at our stock and let me know what  
>>>> they
>>>> would be interested in, I'd be happy to email back a coupon. My  
>>>> email is
>>>> rhughes at cbwstores.com <mailto:rhughes at cbwstores.com> .
>>>>
>>>> I appreciate your time, I hope your group gets excited about this. I
>>>> think it is a great opportunity for the community, and for our  
>>>> stores.
>>>> Feel free to call at any time or drop me an email.
>>>>
>>>> Thank You,
>>>>
>>>> Rich Hughes
>>>> Store Manager
>>>>
>>>> Computer Builders Warehouse
>>>> Great Lakes Crossing
>>>> 4354 Baldwin Road - Ste. 708
>>>> Auburn Hills, MI 48326
>>>> Tel: (248) 334-3061
>>>> Fax: (248) 334-5373
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 07:32:17 -0400
>> From: Wolfger <wolfger at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE!
>> To: "MDLUG Main" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>> Message-ID:
>> 	<3b00b3330706010432q6a974415r469a306223debc4c at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> http://lolcode.com/home
>>
>> -- 
>> Wolfger
>> http://wolfger.wordpress.com/
>> http://1fjordaroad.wordpress.com/
>> AOL IM: wolf4coyot
>> Yahoo!Messenger: wolfgersilberbaer
>> Skype: wolfger88
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 08:41:06 -0400
>> From: Robert Adkins <radkins at impelind.com>
>> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE!
>> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>> Message-ID: <466013E2.2000208 at impelind.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> Is it wrong that I actually understand the "code"?
>>
>> Wolfger wrote:
>>> http://lolcode.com/home
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 10:35:59 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>> From: Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net>
>> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE!
>> To: MDLUG <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>> Message-ID:
>> 	<Pine.WNT.4.64.0706011034140.2540 at w2zzzp0601.amer.corp.eds.com>
>> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>>
>> Wolfger a ecrit:
>>> http://lolcode.com/home
>>
>> Well, it is more readable...
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mdlug mailing list
>> mdlug at mdlug.org
>> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>>
>> End of mdlug Digest, Vol 10, Issue 1
>> ************************************
> ------- End of Original Message -------
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 12941 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070601/ad22489e/attachment-0001.bin>

From brian at detroitindustrial.org  Fri Jun  1 20:20:42 2007
From: brian at detroitindustrial.org (Brian Hurley)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 20:20:42 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE!
In-Reply-To: <466013E2.2000208@impelind.com>
References: <3b00b3330706010432q6a974415r469a306223debc4c@mail.gmail.com>
	<466013E2.2000208@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <200706012020.42264.brian@detroitindustrial.org>

On Friday 01 June 2007 08:41, Robert Adkins wrote:
> Is it wrong that I actually understand the "code"?

Yes.


-- 
Brian Hurley
Detroit Industrial Underground
www.detroitindustrial.org

Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out 
the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them.
--Frederick Douglass


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Fri Jun  1 23:22:47 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 23:22:47 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE!
In-Reply-To: <200706012020.42264.brian@detroitindustrial.org>
References: <3b00b3330706010432q6a974415r469a306223debc4c@mail.gmail.com>
	<466013E2.2000208@impelind.com>
	<200706012020.42264.brian@detroitindustrial.org>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706012022w10fae31di4be4e33cdf11376c@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/1/07, Brian Hurley <brian at detroitindustrial.org> wrote:
> On Friday 01 June 2007 08:41, Robert Adkins wrote:
> > Is it wrong that I actually understand the "code"?
>
> Yes.

I agree.  If everyone can read code then everyone would try to write
code.  Next thing you know some fool will try to clone Vista.
Obfuscation helps keep the n00bs out and increase the value (paycheck)
of real developers.


From tony at bemushosting.com  Sat Jun  2 00:13:25 2007
From: tony at bemushosting.com (Tony Bemus)
Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2007 00:13:25 -0400
Subject: [mdlug]  Video Capture and Editing App
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DAB@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DAB@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <1180757605.27149.8.camel@bemus-tony>

I am looking for some suggestions of a good video capture and editing
app.  I used Pinnacle Studio 8 (in my dark days of windows) and would
like some thing comparable.  I need to capture from a Firewire video
digital camera, I have all hardware needed ie. firewire card and hard
drive space.
Computer Info:
Ubuntu 7.04 Fiesty Fawn
Intel P4 2.4GHz
1280MB DDR ram
DL-DVD burner
200GB free hard drive space

Thanks
Tony



From fati at venerealinjection.com  Sat Jun  2 00:47:21 2007
From: fati at venerealinjection.com (Fati)
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 00:47:21 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Video Capture and Editing App
In-Reply-To: <1180757605.27149.8.camel@bemus-tony>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DAB@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<1180757605.27149.8.camel@bemus-tony>
Message-ID: <6f64e9540706012147p202c4528jb863ed193fe39f6@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/2/07, Tony Bemus <tony at bemushosting.com> wrote:
> I am looking for some suggestions of a good video capture and editing
> app.  I used Pinnacle Studio 8 (in my dark days of windows) and would
> like some thing comparable.  I need to capture from a Firewire video
> digital camera, I have all hardware needed ie. firewire card and hard
> drive space.
> Computer Info:
> Ubuntu 7.04 Fiesty Fawn
> Intel P4 2.4GHz
> 1280MB DDR ram
> DL-DVD burner
> 200GB free hard drive space
>
> Thanks
> Tony

Any video editing I've done has consisted of transcode, ffmpeg,
mencoder, and mpgtx.

For the more advanced GUI editing types cinerella
<http://heroinewarrior.com/cinelerra.php3> is quite nice.


-- 
Fati
"I don't know what weapons World War Three will be fought with, but
World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones."  - Albert
Einstein


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sat Jun  2 01:30:42 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 01:30:42 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Video Capture and Editing App
In-Reply-To: <1180757605.27149.8.camel@bemus-tony>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DAB@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<1180757605.27149.8.camel@bemus-tony>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706012230p1b22f954xeaa6dc87f33cd56f@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/2/07, Tony Bemus <tony at bemushosting.com> wrote:
> I am looking for some suggestions of a good video capture and editing
> app.  I used Pinnacle Studio 8 (in my dark days of windows) and would
> like some thing comparable.  I need to capture from a Firewire video
> digital camera, I have all hardware needed ie. firewire card and hard
> drive space.

I've been messing around with it a bit.  I was trying to get a Plextor
ConvertX working.  It supposedly works with MythTV but not much else
due to it's compressed video output.  I've bought a PCI card but
haven't tried it yet.  Here are some reviews and stuff I've collected.

http://liquidweather.net/howto/index.php?id=88
http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=07/03/15/0321242
http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=07/03/05/1949213
http://ubuntustudio.orghttp://ubuntustudio.org


From wolfger at gmail.com  Sat Jun  2 05:49:59 2007
From: wolfger at gmail.com (Wolfger)
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 05:49:59 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE!
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90706012022w10fae31di4be4e33cdf11376c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3b00b3330706010432q6a974415r469a306223debc4c@mail.gmail.com>
	<466013E2.2000208@impelind.com>
	<200706012020.42264.brian@detroitindustrial.org>
	<b02c40e90706012022w10fae31di4be4e33cdf11376c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3b00b3330706020249i68ca81a1wd595f0489540c734@mail.gmail.com>

There's even a book out, by O'RLY. :-D
http://icanhascheezburger.com/2007/06/01/lolcode/

-- 
Wolfger
http://wolfger.wordpress.com/
http://1fjordaroad.wordpress.com/
AOL IM: wolf4coyot
Yahoo!Messenger: wolfgersilberbaer
Skype: wolfger88


From carew at pobox.com  Sat Jun  2 09:29:24 2007
From: carew at pobox.com (Evan Carew)
Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2007 09:29:24 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] President's mail bag - Store to offer Linux preinstalled
In-Reply-To: <20070601170512.M9124@wowway.com>
References: <mailman.3.1180713601.11527.mdlug@mdlug.org>
	<20070601170512.M9124@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <466170B4.9010704@pobox.com>

I have a linux laptop from RCubed systems, one of the pioneers for
preloaded linux systems. I can't say enough about the joy of getting a
laptop out of the box that just works. Having said that, I'd wager that
even with these high end linux laptop integrators, integration of all of
the target laptop's hardware is not quite complete. In particular,
buttons don't always work, not all wifi capabilities always work,
external video options rarely work, and not all sleep modes work. So, I
would be curious as to how much integration work CBW was thinking of
putting into their laptop models.

Evan Carew

ebradley01 at wowway.com wrote:

><snip>
>
>We are also considering offering preloaded laptops. Currently
>I have an Ubuntu 7.04 system decked out with the full Compiz/Beryl 3D
>desktop. The reaction to it has been overwhelmingly positive. It is
>helping to show that Linux is ready for home use.
>
>The Sytem Specs are:
>AMD Athlon 64 3200+
>1 GB DDR2 Memory
>80 GB SATA2 Hard Drive
>18X Dual Layer DVD Burner
>MSI Nvidia 7300GT PCIe Card
>
>We are selling the system for $399.
>
></snip>
>
>This seems like a really good deal to me...at least, when taken at face-value.
> Anything other than the above specs that should be considered when pricing a
>laptop for general usage purposes? (Internet, email, multimedia playback, no
>games...)  
>
>Just looking to get everyone's opinion...
>
>
>Evan
>  
>
>


From jvartanian at gmail.com  Sat Jun  2 10:11:25 2007
From: jvartanian at gmail.com (Joseph Vartanian)
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 10:11:25 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE!
In-Reply-To: <466013E2.2000208@impelind.com>
References: <3b00b3330706010432q6a974415r469a306223debc4c@mail.gmail.com>
	<466013E2.2000208@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <dd889b430706020711p191a7ac8weae86a243cb622f1@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/1/07, Robert Adkins <radkins at impelind.com> wrote:
> Is it wrong that I actually understand the "code"?
>
> Wolfger wrote:
> > http://lolcode.com/home
> >


No, it's not wrong that you can read it.  This is actually much more
legible than some of the Perl code that people write.

-Joseph


From set at pobox.com  Sat Jun  2 21:26:12 2007
From: set at pobox.com (Paul)
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 21:26:12 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Video Capture and Editing App
In-Reply-To: <1180757605.27149.8.camel@bemus-tony>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DAB@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<1180757605.27149.8.camel@bemus-tony>
Message-ID: <20070603012612.GE5753@squish.home.loc>

Tony Bemus <tony at bemushosting.com>, on Sat Jun 02, 2007 [12:13:25 AM] said:
> I am looking for some suggestions of a good video capture and editing
> app.  I used Pinnacle Studio 8 (in my dark days of windows) and would
> like some thing comparable.  I need to capture from a Firewire video
> digital camera, I have all hardware needed ie. firewire card and hard
> drive space.
> Computer Info:
> Ubuntu 7.04 Fiesty Fawn
> Intel P4 2.4GHz
> 1280MB DDR ram
> DL-DVD burner
> 200GB free hard drive space
> 
> Thanks
> Tony

	Hi;

	I have no experience with this, but for your application, I
have heard that Kino is a good solution:

http://www.kinodv.org/

Paul
set at pobox.com


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Mon Jun  4 08:40:50 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 08:40:50 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE!
In-Reply-To: <dd889b430706020711p191a7ac8weae86a243cb622f1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DB7@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>


> From: Joseph Vartanian

> No, it's not wrong that you can read it.  This is actually much more
> legible than some of the Perl code that people write.

 The problem with Perl is that "There's more than one way to do it!" That's
a good thing in some ways, but like C++, most programmers end up using just
parts of the whole language, subsets. 

 For detailed thoughts on this, see here: http://www.faqs.org/docs/artu/ch04s02.html

 The key quote: "Some designs that are not compact have enough internal redundancy
of features that individual programmers end up carving out compact dialects
sufficient for that 80% of common tasks by choosing a working subset of the
language. Perl has this kind of pseudo-compactness, for example. Such designs have
a built-in trap; when two programmers try to communicate about a project, they may
find that differences in their working subsets are a significant barrier to
understanding and modifying the code."

 That's kept me from really working to learn Perl, despite its utility. So I asked
for this book for my birthday:

 http://www.amazon.com/Minimal-Perl-UNIX-Linux-People/dp/1932394508

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                      (313) 227-2317

     If the Bush administration can't sort New Orleans out,
               what are their chances in Iraq?

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. 


From tmorris at ugs.com  Mon Jun  4 09:06:41 2007
From: tmorris at ugs.com (Morris, Tim)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 08:06:41 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE!
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DB7@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E202E0D992@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>

That looks like a good book... I may pick one up myself. 

If you don't want to pay $45 for it, you can get it from half.com for
about $30 (used). 


--  Tim Morris - UGS PLM Software

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Ingles, Raymond
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 8:41 AM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE!


> From: Joseph Vartanian

> No, it's not wrong that you can read it.  This is actually much more 
> legible than some of the Perl code that people write.

 The problem with Perl is that "There's more than one way to do it!"
That's a good thing in some ways, but like C++, most programmers end up
using just parts of the whole language, subsets. 

 For detailed thoughts on this, see here:
http://www.faqs.org/docs/artu/ch04s02.html

 The key quote: "Some designs that are not compact have enough internal
redundancy of features that individual programmers end up carving out
compact dialects sufficient for that 80% of common tasks by choosing a
working subset of the language. Perl has this kind of
pseudo-compactness, for example. Such designs have a built-in trap; when
two programmers try to communicate about a project, they may find that
differences in their working subsets are a significant barrier to
understanding and modifying the code."

 That's kept me from really working to learn Perl, despite its utility.
So I asked for this book for my birthday:

 http://www.amazon.com/Minimal-Perl-UNIX-Linux-People/dp/1932394508

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                      (313) 227-2317

     If the Bush administration can't sort New Orleans out,
               what are their chances in Iraq?

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only.
It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the
named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it,
or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify
us immediately and then destroy it. 
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From tmorris at ugs.com  Mon Jun  4 09:27:12 2007
From: tmorris at ugs.com (Morris, Tim)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 08:27:12 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Fwd: President's mail bag - Store to offer
	Linuxpreinstalled
In-Reply-To: <2b422319b633d4c17beeda31dcc8fdeb@usol.com>
Message-ID: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E202E0D9C7@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>

Are these computers available online? I'd like to check them out, but I
doubt I'll get out that way anytime soon. From the original post, I
don't think so :(
 
--  Tim Morris - UGS PLM Software
 

________________________________

From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of God of Lemmings
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 2:57 PM
To: mdlug at mdlug.org
Subject: [mdlug] Fwd: President's mail bag - Store to offer
Linuxpreinstalled




Note about the current nvidia video drivers: The newer ones have a
memory leak that nvidia has been 
working on for a few months already, it appears when compositing is
enabled, and such compositing 
is required for Compiz and Beryl. You may wish to read about it at
nvidia:s forums. 



Begin forwarded message: 


	From: ebradley01 at wowway.com 
	Date: June 1, 2007 1:10:40 PM EST 
	To: mdlug at mdlug.org 
	Subject: Re: [mdlug] President's mail bag - Store to offer Linux
preinstalled 
	Reply-To: "MDLUG's Main discussion list" <mdlug at mdlug.org> 

	<snip> 

	We are also considering offering preloaded laptops. Currently 
	I have an Ubuntu 7.04 system decked out with the full
Compiz/Beryl 3D 
	desktop. The reaction to it has been overwhelmingly positive. It
is 
	helping to show that Linux is ready for home use. 

	The Sytem Specs are: 
	AMD Athlon 64 3200+ 
	1 GB DDR2 Memory 
	80 GB SATA2 Hard Drive 
	18X Dual Layer DVD Burner 
	MSI Nvidia 7300GT PCIe Card 

	We are selling the system for $399. 

	</snip> 

	This seems like a really good deal to me...at least, when taken
at face-value. 
	Anything other than the above specs that should be considered
when pricing a 
	laptop for general usage purposes? (Internet, email, multimedia
playback, no 
	games...) 

	Just looking to get everyone's opinion... 


	Evan 

	-- 
	"The road of life is rocky, and you may stumble too. So while
you point your 
	finger; someone else is judging you." --Bob Marley 


	---------- Original Message ----------- 
	From: mdlug-request at mdlug.org 
	To: mdlug at mdlug.org 
	Sent: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 12:00:01 -0400 
	Subject: mdlug Digest, Vol 10, Issue 1 


		Send mdlug mailing list submissions to 
		mdlug at mdlug.org 

		To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web,
visit 
		http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug 
		or, via email, send a message with subject or body
'help' to 
		mdlug-request at mdlug.org 

		You can reach the person managing the list at 
		mdlug-owner at mdlug.org 

		When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is
more specific 
		than "Re: Contents of mdlug digest..." 

		Today's Topics: 

		1. Converting DVDs to play on a Palm (Ingles, Raymond) 
		2. President's mail bag - Store to offer Linux
preinstalled 
		(Raymond McLaughlin) 
		3. Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE! (Wolfger) 
		4. Re: Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE! (Robert
Adkins) 
		5. Re: Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE! (Michael
Corral) 

	
---------------------------------------------------------------------- 

		Message: 1 
		Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 18:03:18 -0400 
		From: "Ingles, Raymond" <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> 
		Subject: [mdlug] Converting DVDs to play on a Palm 
		To: "Mdlug (E-mail)" <mdlug at mdlug.org> 
		Message-ID: 
	
<41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DAB at nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>

		Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" 

		I got a spare 512MB SD card and decided to try this out,
since I'd 
		heard of people doing it. So, I did some googling and
put together a 
		script or two to handle this. 

		Basically, you use "mencoder" to read the DVD and
convert it to 
		DIVX format, scaling the video to fit the 320x320
screen. I also 
		compress the audio to 128Kbit MP3 format, since I don't
need a Dolby 
		soundtrack. :-> I've had very good results with a
224Mbit/sec video 
		rate. It looks quite good on the screen, better than VHS
(certainly 
		richer color). 

		Last night I converted the movie "Aliens". It's a
154-minute movie 
		in 16x9 format. It converted down to a 320x180 image,
and takes up 
		403MB on the card. That took approximately an hour and
twenty 
		minutes on my dual-2GHz Athlon system. (If I used
one-pass encoding 
		it would have been about half that.) 

		I let the movie run all the way through (two hours and
34 minutes) 
		today as the Treo 650 sat on my desk as I worked (with
the sound 
		muted) and my battery went from 99% to 77%. Not bad. 

		It's a toy, sure, but might be fun on a long trip. I
could fit five 
		or six half-hour TV shows on my card easily. Anyway, if
anyone's 
		interested, the script I use is below. 

		Sincerely, 

		Ray Ingles (313) 227-2317 

		"Computers let you make more mistakes faster than any
other 
		invention in human history, with the possible exception
of 
		handguns and tequila." - Mitch Radcliffe 

		---begin dvd2palm.sh--- 
		#!/bin/sh 

		# Converts DVDs to AVI files suitable for viewing on a
Palm w/TCPMP 

		# If you're skipping frames, increase FPS. If
duplicating, decrease FPS. 
		# Usual values are 24000/1001 (23.976), 24, 25 (PAL),
30000/1001 (29.97), 30. 
		FPS=24000/1001 

		# My Palm has a 320x320 screen. If you have a 480x320
screen, try "480" here. 
		SCALEW=320 

		# Set audio mode - these are arranged in decreasing
order of likelyhood 
		# to sync properly 

		# Full AC3 audio, takes up a fair amount of space. 
		#AUDIO=copy 
		# Constant bit rate MP3, the 'br' field sets the bit
rate 
		AUDIO="mp3lame -lameopts cbr:br=128" 
		# Average bit rate MP3, the 'br' field sets the bit rate

		#AUDIO="mp3lame -lameopts abr:br=128" 
		# Variable bit rate MP3, sometimes has sync problems 
		#AUDIO="mp3lame -lameopts vbr=3" 

		# Set crop, if needed 
		# Get these numbers by running the command: mplayer -ss
60 -vf 

	scale=320:-2,cropdetect dvd://[track number] 

		#CROP=",crop=320:160:0:28" 

		# For mixed progressive/telecined content 
		#PULLUP=",pullup,softskip" 

		# Set video bit rate, feel free to experiment here to
see what fits 
		VBITRATE=224 
		#VBITRATE=336 
		#VBITRATE=448 

		# Use DIVX 
		DIVX="-ffourcc divx" 

		# These are the key parameters we gotta have from the
user. 
		# Spaces in the output file name are probably not a good
idea. 
		DVDTITLE=$1 
		NEWNAME=$2.avi 

		# These are optional parameters that can be tweaked but
have default values. 
		# You might want to change the default to match your
system. 
		DVDDEV=${3:-"/dev/dvd"} 
		# 128 is the default audio track on a DVD, usually 
		AUDIOTRACK=${4:-128} 

		# Make sure we got the minimum info needed. 
		if [ -z "${DVDTITLE}" -o -z "$2" ]; then 
		echo "Usage: " $0 " dvd-title output-name [dvd-device]
[audio- 
		track]" exit -1 fi 

		# Just in case one's left over from a previous encoding
run. 
		rm -rf divx2pass.log 

		# Two-pass encoding, takes longer but produces best
quality for a given bitrate 
		mencoder -dvd-device ${DVDDEV} dvd://${DVDTITLE} -aid
${AUDIOTRACK} - 
		ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg4:vpass=1:vbi
trate=${VBITRATE} -ofps 
		${FPS} ${DIVX} -oac ${AUDIO} -vf
scale=${SCALEW}:-2${CROP}${PULLUP} - 
		o /dev/null 

		mencoder -dvd-device ${DVDDEV} dvd://${DVDTITLE} -aid
${AUDIOTRACK} - 
		ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg4:vpass=2:vbi
trate=${VBITRATE} -ofps 
		${FPS} ${DIVX} -oac ${AUDIO} -vf
scale=${SCALEW}:-2${CROP}${PULLUP} - 
		o ${NEWNAME} 

		# Clean up after ourselves. 
		rm -rf divx2pass.log 
		----end dvd2palm.sh---- 

		The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named
addressee 
		only. It contains information that may be confidential.
Unless you 
		are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you
may not copy 
		or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you
received it in 
		error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. 

		------------------------------ 

		Message: 2 
		Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 23:45:25 -0400 
		From: Raymond McLaughlin <driveray at ameritech.net> 
		Subject: [mdlug] President's mail bag - Store to offer
Linux 
		preinstalled 
		To: "mdlug at mdlug.org" <mdlug at mdlug.org> 
		Message-ID: <465F9655.8010007 at ameritech.net> 
		Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 

		Mr. Hughs, 

		Thank you for contacting me. I find your idea both
intriguing and 
		exciting. Right now I am swamped with other pressing
business, but I 
		hope to be able to provide more extensive input in the
next few weeks. 

		For the time being I will pass your letter on to our
membership. I must 
		tell you that Computer Builders Warehouse got something
of a bad 
		reputation in our group a couple of years ago. If I
recall they were 
		promoting questionable MS 'facts' of some sort. I don't
recall the 
		details off hand. Your project could go a long ways
toward changing this. 

		I hope to be able to drop by your store some time in the
next few weeks. 
		Is there any chance that your store could accommodate a
"mini 
		meeting" of about a dozen people? Just a thought. In the
mean time I 
		suggest that you join one or more of our mailing lists
to get an 
		idea of our group's inclinations. Be warned that purely
commercial 
		postings are considered spam, and greatly frowned upon. 

		I hope to see you soon 
		Raymond McLaughlin 
		President MDLUG 

		Rich Hughes wrote: 


				Hello Mr. McLaughlin, 

				My name is Rich Hughes, I manage the
Computer Builders Warehouse store 
				inside Great Lakes Crossing. I also run
www.linuxtechdaily.com 
				<http://www.linuxtechdaily.com> and have
written for other Linux 

		websites. 


				I'm writing to announce to you and your
group that my store in Great 
				Lakes Crossing has been approved for a
pilot program, offering Linux 
				based systems. If it is successful it
will expand to our other 
				locations. We are also considering
offering preloaded laptops. Currently 
				I have an Ubuntu 7.04 system decked out
with the full Compiz/Beryl 3D 
				desktop. The reaction to it has been
overwhelmingly positive. It is 
				helping to show that Linux is ready for
home use. 

				The Sytem Specs are: 
				AMD Athlon 64 3200+ 
				1 GB DDR2 Memory 
				80 GB SATA2 Hard Drive 
				18X Dual Layer DVD Burner 
				MSI Nvidia 7300GT PCIe Card 

				We are selling the system for $399. We
have the ability to custom build 
				any system and load any version of Linux
on it, but are trying this 
				combo out to see how it does. I believe
our non-propriatery, open 
				architecture systems are a perfect match
for Free Software. 

				Frankly, I'm asking for MDLUG's support.
I think there is enormous 
				potential for success here. With the
failure of Vista, and the strides 
				Linux is making, I think now is the
time. I'd love to get your members 
				out here into the store to check out
this system. 

				I'm also interested in feedback in what
systems people might be 
				interested in. Distro, system specs,
etc... 
				If anyone wants to check out our website
www.cbwstores.com 
				<http://www.cbwstores.com> , look at our
stock and let me know what they 
				would be interested in, I'd be happy to
email back a coupon. My email is 
				rhughes at cbwstores.com
<mailto:rhughes at cbwstores.com> . 

				I appreciate your time, I hope your
group gets excited about this. I 
				think it is a great opportunity for the
community, and for our stores. 
				Feel free to call at any time or drop me
an email. 

				Thank You, 

				Rich Hughes 
				Store Manager 

				Computer Builders Warehouse 
				Great Lakes Crossing 
				4354 Baldwin Road - Ste. 708 
				Auburn Hills, MI 48326 
				Tel: (248) 334-3061 
				Fax: (248) 334-5373 


		------------------------------ 

		Message: 3 
		Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 07:32:17 -0400 
		From: Wolfger <wolfger at gmail.com> 
		Subject: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE! 
		To: "MDLUG Main" <mdlug at mdlug.org> 
		Message-ID: 
	
<3b00b3330706010432q6a974415r469a306223debc4c at mail.gmail.com> 
		Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
format=flowed 

		http://lolcode.com/home 

		-- 
		Wolfger 
		http://wolfger.wordpress.com/ 
		http://1fjordaroad.wordpress.com/ 
		AOL IM: wolf4coyot 
		Yahoo!Messenger: wolfgersilberbaer 
		Skype: wolfger88 

		------------------------------ 

		Message: 4 
		Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 08:41:06 -0400 
		From: Robert Adkins <radkins at impelind.com> 
		Subject: Re: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to
LOLCODE! 
		To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org> 
		Message-ID: <466013E2.2000208 at impelind.com> 
		Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
format=flowed 

		Is it wrong that I actually understand the "code"? 

		Wolfger wrote: 

			http://lolcode.com/home 




		------------------------------ 

		Message: 5 
		Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 10:35:59 -0400 (Eastern Daylight
Time) 
		From: Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net> 
		Subject: Re: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to
LOLCODE! 
		To: MDLUG <mdlug at mdlug.org> 
		Message-ID: 
	
<Pine.WNT.4.64.0706011034140.2540 at w2zzzp0601.amer.corp.eds.com> 
		Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII;
format=flowed 

		Wolfger a ecrit: 

			http://lolcode.com/home 


		Well, it is more readable... 

		Michael 

		------------------------------ 

		_______________________________________________ 
		mdlug mailing list 
		mdlug at mdlug.org 
		http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug 

		End of mdlug Digest, Vol 10, Issue 1 
		************************************ 

	------- End of Original Message ------- 

	_______________________________________________ 
	mdlug mailing list 
	mdlug at mdlug.org 
	http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug 


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070604/3ed19d12/attachment-0001.html>

From cvweiss at gmail.com  Mon Jun  4 09:31:59 2007
From: cvweiss at gmail.com (Clinton V. Weiss)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 09:31:59 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Converting DVDs to play on a Palm
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DAB@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DAB@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <f0e9fe590706040631j7fc15c45o8f38495bbf463186@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you!

-- 
Clinton V. Weiss
cvweiss at gmail.com


From cvweiss at gmail.com  Mon Jun  4 09:41:01 2007
From: cvweiss at gmail.com (Clinton V. Weiss)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 09:41:01 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] President's mail bag - Store to offer Linux preinstalled
In-Reply-To: <20070601170512.M9124@wowway.com>
References: <mailman.3.1180713601.11527.mdlug@mdlug.org>
	<20070601170512.M9124@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <f0e9fe590706040641q2d5e5236o2a4dbf5ce083b03d@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/1/07, ebradley01 at wowway.com <ebradley01 at wowway.com> wrote:
> <snip>
>
> We are also considering offering preloaded laptops. Currently
> I have an Ubuntu 7.04 system decked out with the full Compiz/Beryl 3D
> desktop. The reaction to it has been overwhelmingly positive. It is
> helping to show that Linux is ready for home use.
>
> The Sytem Specs are:
> AMD Athlon 64 3200+
> 1 GB DDR2 Memory
> 80 GB SATA2 Hard Drive
> 18X Dual Layer DVD Burner
> MSI Nvidia 7300GT PCIe Card
>
> We are selling the system for $399.
>
> </snip>
>
> This seems like a really good deal to me...at least, when taken at face-value.
>  Anything other than the above specs that should be considered when pricing a
> laptop for general usage purposes? (Internet, email, multimedia playback, no
> games...)
>
> Just looking to get everyone's opinion...
>
>
> Evan
>

This sounds way to good to be true.  Has anyone confirmed that this is
actually a laptop?  If it is, what size/resolution is the screen?

-- 
Clinton V. Weiss
cvweiss at gmail.com


From micorral at comcast.net  Mon Jun  4 09:49:22 2007
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 09:49:22 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Subject: [mdlug] President's mail bag - Store to offer Linux preinstalled
Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.4.64.0706040944500.3368@w2zzzp0601.amer.corp.eds.com>

Clinton V. Weiss a ecrit:
>> AMD Athlon 64 3200+
>> 1 GB DDR2 Memory
>> 80 GB SATA2 Hard Drive
>> 18X Dual Layer DVD Burner
>> MSI Nvidia 7300GT PCIe Card
>
> Has anyone confirmed that this is actually a laptop?

Let's see...an OEM PCIe video *card*...
It's not too hard to figure out. ;)

Michael


From cvweiss at gmail.com  Mon Jun  4 10:01:52 2007
From: cvweiss at gmail.com (Clinton V. Weiss)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 10:01:52 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] President's mail bag - Store to offer Linux preinstalled
In-Reply-To: <Pine.WNT.4.64.0706040944500.3368@w2zzzp0601.amer.corp.eds.com>
References: <Pine.WNT.4.64.0706040944500.3368@w2zzzp0601.amer.corp.eds.com>
Message-ID: <f0e9fe590706040701q3a8505d9t6349bd40d5f9273a@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/4/07, Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net> wrote:
> Let's see...an OEM PCIe video *card*...
> It's not too hard to figure out. ;)
>
> Michael

Hrm.. yeah.. duh on my part.. Guess I'm actually paying more attention
to my work today

-- 
Clinton V. Weiss
cvweiss at gmail.com


From wolfger at gmail.com  Mon Jun  4 10:49:49 2007
From: wolfger at gmail.com (Wolfger)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 10:49:49 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE!
In-Reply-To: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E202E0D992@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DB7@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E202E0D992@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
Message-ID: <3b00b3330706040749g18140733w4771af9d6478cdaa@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/4/07, Morris, Tim <tmorris at ugs.com> wrote:
> That looks like a good book... I may pick one up myself.
>
> If you don't want to pay $45 for it, you can get it from half.com for
> about $30 (used).

Did you follow the Amazon link provided? It's $29.67 brand new.
Seriously... used book dealers need to learn to compete with Amazon
better than that.

-- 
Wolfger
http://wolfger.wordpress.com/
http://1fjordaroad.wordpress.com/
AOL IM: wolf4coyot
Yahoo!Messenger: wolfgersilberbaer
Skype: wolfger88


From mdlug at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jun  4 11:52:34 2007
From: mdlug at sbcglobal.net (Dean Durant)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 08:52:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] network appliance cracked?
Message-ID: <548134.42048.qm@web81808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello, has anyone ever heard of a network appliance being cracked?   If root is not able to do rootly things, that's a very bad sign, right?   And yet, it is only one of three network appliances that is mounted on a solaris server, which appears to be fine.   Thanks in advance for any help anyone can offer.     

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070604/f03571b8/attachment-0001.html>

From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Mon Jun  4 12:30:34 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 12:30:34 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Converting DVDs to play on a Palm
In-Reply-To: <f0e9fe590706040631j7fc15c45o8f38495bbf463186@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DBA@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>


> From: Clinton V. Weiss

> Thank you!

 BTW, the best free media player I've found for Palms is "The Core
Pocket Media Player" (TCPMP):

 http://picard.exceed.hu/tcpmp/test/

 Also, a bit of tweaking with that script would generate files suitable
for other purposes, like backing up a movie to CD. (For backing up to DVD,
I've had plenty of success with "k9copy". It can recode a movie on a 9GB
DVD so that it fits on a 4.7GB one, and usually the extra compression is
unnoticeable.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                                  (313) 227-2317

 "...apparently, the Department of Homeland Security has absolutely no plan
 for dealing with devastation on this scale, which is supposedly the thing
              we've all been worried about for four years."
                  - Tom Tomorrow, on hurricane Katrina

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. 


From fati at venerealinjection.com  Mon Jun  4 13:07:02 2007
From: fati at venerealinjection.com (Fati)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 13:07:02 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] network appliance cracked?
In-Reply-To: <548134.42048.qm@web81808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <548134.42048.qm@web81808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6f64e9540706041007g315a3131i5f20af6ae5178901@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/4/07, Dean Durant <mdlug at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Hello, has anyone ever heard of a network appliance being cracked?

Anything that has been on a network I'm sure has been cracked at one
point or another, besides maybe qmail ;)

> is not able to do rootly things, that's a very bad sign, right?   And yet,
> it is only one of three network appliances that is mounted on a solaris
> server, which appears to be fine.   Thanks in advance for any help anyone
> can offer.

I don't understand completely, is this some kind of an NFS appliance?
What is a "rootly thing" to do?

-- 
Fati
"I don't know what weapons World War Three will be fought with, but
World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones."  - Albert
Einstein


From tmorris at ugs.com  Mon Jun  4 13:23:45 2007
From: tmorris at ugs.com (Morris, Tim)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 12:23:45 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE!
In-Reply-To: <3b00b3330706040749g18140733w4771af9d6478cdaa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E202E91F45@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>

The amazon page didn't load the first time I clicked. I looked it up on
barnesandnoble.com. $30 at amazon\borders is better than used, for
sure... I wonder if Borders has it in the store for $30? Doubt it.

--  Tim Morris - UGS PLM Software

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Wolfger
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 10:50 AM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE!

On 6/4/07, Morris, Tim <tmorris at ugs.com> wrote:
> That looks like a good book... I may pick one up myself.
>
> If you don't want to pay $45 for it, you can get it from half.com for 
> about $30 (used).

Did you follow the Amazon link provided? It's $29.67 brand new.
Seriously... used book dealers need to learn to compete with Amazon
better than that.

--
Wolfger
http://wolfger.wordpress.com/
http://1fjordaroad.wordpress.com/
AOL IM: wolf4coyot
Yahoo!Messenger: wolfgersilberbaer
Skype: wolfger88
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From fati at venerealinjection.com  Mon Jun  4 15:43:46 2007
From: fati at venerealinjection.com (Fati)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 15:43:46 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Forget Perl, I'm switching to LOLCODE!
In-Reply-To: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E202E91F45@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
References: <3b00b3330706040749g18140733w4771af9d6478cdaa@mail.gmail.com>
	<B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E202E91F45@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
Message-ID: <6f64e9540706041243i7f8dd9f6gcaf4c963bea73414@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/4/07, Morris, Tim <tmorris at ugs.com> wrote:
> The amazon page didn't load the first time I clicked. I looked it up on
> barnesandnoble.com. $30 at amazon\borders is better than used, for
> sure... I wonder if Borders has it in the store for $30? Doubt it.
>

I'd be surprised if Borders had it in the store period.

-- 
Fati
"I don't know what weapons World War Three will be fought with, but
World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones."  - Albert
Einstein


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Jun  4 21:25:09 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 21:25:09 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Xandros joins M$ "preferred Linux distro" list
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706041825g13b98fbcp3a593bbc099a4018@mail.gmail.com>

I'm going to buy it right now so I am IP compliant! (and you thought
IP was just a networking term) :P
www.tgdaily.com/content/view/32317/118/


From mathew.enders at prodigy.net  Tue Jun  5 06:55:41 2007
From: mathew.enders at prodigy.net (Mathew Enders)
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 06:55:41 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Xandros joins M$ "preferred Linux distro" list
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90706041825g13b98fbcp3a593bbc099a4018@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e90706041825g13b98fbcp3a593bbc099a4018@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1181040941.5608.29.camel@daddymobile>

On Mon, 2007-06-04 at 21:25 -0400, Jeff Hanson wrote:
> I'm going to buy it right now so I am IP compliant! (and you thought
> IP was just a networking term) :P
> www.tgdaily.com/content/view/32317/118/
> _______________________________________________

I think MS just also gave their FUD on IP infringement with this
statement:

Microsoft also addressed intellectual property rights as part of the
agreement: According to a press release, the company guarantees that
Xandros technologies ?are compliant with Microsoft's intellectual
property.?

Doesn't that statement also include all linux distrobutions since they
are basically all distributing the same thing just bundled up diffrent
and sometimes with some distro unique tools added in.



From bob at whizdomsoft.com  Tue Jun  5 07:53:57 2007
From: bob at whizdomsoft.com (Robert G. Brown)
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 11:53:57 +0000
Subject: [mdlug] Xandros joins M$ "preferred Linux distro" list
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 05 Jun 2007 06:55:41 -0400."
	<1181040941.5608.29.camel@daddymobile> 
Message-ID: <200706051153.l55BrvJc004487@groucho-dva.whizdomsoft.com>

On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 06:55:41 -0400, Mathew Enders <mathew.enders at prodigy.net> wrote:

>Doesn't that statement also include all linux distrobutions since they
>are basically all distributing the same thing just bundled up diffrent
>and sometimes with some distro unique tools added in.

Unfortunately, these things are not hashed out on the "basics". The
Microsoft approach here in interesting....

1. Use the "stick" of FUD and threats of litigation if others don't
   come to the table.
2. Use the "carrot" of cooperation and immunity from litigation as
   the benefit of coming to terms.
3. Insert compatibility tools to expand the reach of an "embrace and
   extend" approach.

The first action drives off potential Linux customers and deprives
Linux distributors of what some may term "the high ground".

The second motivates many distributors to gain legitimacy and acceptance
in he broader market.

The third, probably the most dangerous, will create a fault line between
those who come  to agreements with MS, and those who don't.

							Regards,
							---> RGB <---


From bobdion at starline-ent.com  Tue Jun  5 09:37:38 2007
From: bobdion at starline-ent.com (bob dion)
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 09:37:38 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Xandros joins M$ "preferred Linux distro" list
In-Reply-To: <200706051153.l55BrvJc004487@groucho-dva.whizdomsoft.com>
References: <200706051153.l55BrvJc004487@groucho-dva.whizdomsoft.com>
Message-ID: <46656722.6080704@starline-ent.com>

Robert G. Brown wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 06:55:41 -0400, Mathew Enders <mathew.enders at prodigy.net> wrote:
> 
>> Doesn't that statement also include all linux distrobutions since they
>> are basically all distributing the same thing just bundled up diffrent
>> and sometimes with some distro unique tools added in.
> 
> Unfortunately, these things are not hashed out on the "basics". The
> Microsoft approach here in interesting....
> 
> 1. Use the "stick" of FUD and threats of litigation if others don't
>    come to the table.
> 2. Use the "carrot" of cooperation and immunity from litigation as
>    the benefit of coming to terms.
> 3. Insert compatibility tools to expand the reach of an "embrace and
>    extend" approach.
> 
> The first action drives off potential Linux customers and deprives
> Linux distributors of what some may term "the high ground".
> 
> The second motivates many distributors to gain legitimacy and acceptance
> in he broader market.
> 
> The third, probably the most dangerous, will create a fault line between
> those who come  to agreements with MS, and those who don't.
> 

So Microsoft it-self has become a cancer.

BD


From rherrell at twmi.rr.com  Tue Jun  5 13:43:52 2007
From: rherrell at twmi.rr.com (Richard Herrell)
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 13:43:52 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Association for Women in Computing Job Fair - PreReg
 Required - Sat Jun 9 - 9:00AM-3:00PM - UM Dearborn
Message-ID: <4665A0D8.7050802@twmi.rr.com>

Association for Women in Computing Job Fair 
Attendance is free for job seekers!

Open to all.     Pre-registration required.     Resumes required.

Career in transition? Just starting out? Looking for a new job? 

Come to the AWC Job Fair to be held at the University of Michigan -
Dearborn June 9th.. Pre-registration is required, along with a copy of
your resume. Career Development workshops will be available throughout
the day. You can register for the workshops on the day of the event, so
get there early!

JOB FAIR GOALS

Further the professional development and advancement of women in
technology
Promote communication among women in technology
Promote the education of women of all ages in technology
The AWC Job Fair is open to professional men and women in any career
path, at all career levels, from entry to executive level.
 
Job Fair
 Schedule
 Sponsors
 
When:
June 9, 2007 9 AM - 3 PM

Where:
University of Michigan - Dearborn - University Center (click here for
map) - Kochoff Hall (UC on the map) - 4901 Evergreen, Dearborn MI 48128

Contact:
Contact: Kathleen Salai
Email: jobs-vp at awc-aa.org

 
9:00 AM - 10:00 AM 
Employer set up
First Breakout Session 

Karen White
Robert Half Technologies

IT Compensation Trends in 2007 
What can organizations expect when hiring IT professionals? What are
realistic compensation and benefits expectations? What job titles saw
the highest increases over last year? What skills do the most highly
sought after IT professionals possess? This presentation offers answers
to these questions along with other helpful tips.

10:00 AM - 2:00 PM
Employer/Attendee
Networking


2:00 PM - 3:00 PM
Employer break down
Second Breakout Session

Mary Ellen Dolan 
Dolan and Associates, LLC 

Interviewing Skills
Getting the interview is an initial step in the hiring process, but
being successful in that interview is most critical to being selected.
Therefore, we will explore some interview techniques from creating the
right first impression to asking for the next step in the selection
process. 




From wolfger at gmail.com  Tue Jun  5 17:09:40 2007
From: wolfger at gmail.com (Wolfger)
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 17:09:40 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Xandros joins M$ "preferred Linux distro" list
In-Reply-To: <46656722.6080704@starline-ent.com>
References: <200706051153.l55BrvJc004487@groucho-dva.whizdomsoft.com>
	<46656722.6080704@starline-ent.com>
Message-ID: <3b00b3330706051409m13d7c08amc10d09483ee6e40b@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/5/07, bob dion <bobdion at starline-ent.com> wrote:
>
> So Microsoft it-self has become a cancer.

What do you mean "has become"? I'd just say "is". Has been for a while.

-- 
Wolfger
http://wolfger.wordpress.com/
http://1fjordaroad.wordpress.com/
AOL IM: wolf4coyot
Yahoo!Messenger: wolfgersilberbaer
Skype: wolfger88


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Tue Jun  5 21:24:02 2007
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 21:24:02 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Xandros joins M$ "preferred Linux distro" list
In-Reply-To: <3b00b3330706051409m13d7c08amc10d09483ee6e40b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200706051153.l55BrvJc004487@groucho-dva.whizdomsoft.com>
	<46656722.6080704@starline-ent.com>
	<3b00b3330706051409m13d7c08amc10d09483ee6e40b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380706051824o4e13b771i6e99723ef573fb7@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/5/07, Wolfger wrote:

> On 6/5/07, bob dion wrote:
> > So Microsoft itself has become a cancer.
> What do you mean "has become"? I'd just say "is". Has been for a while.

Ever since BillG dumpster-dived DEC source code to create Altair
BASIC-- so since FOREVER.

-- Mikey


From micorral at comcast.net  Tue Jun  5 21:31:47 2007
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 21:31:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Xandros joins M$ "preferred Linux distro" list
In-Reply-To: <3b00b3330706051409m13d7c08amc10d09483ee6e40b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200706051153.l55BrvJc004487@groucho-dva.whizdomsoft.com>
	<46656722.6080704@starline-ent.com>
	<3b00b3330706051409m13d7c08amc10d09483ee6e40b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.0.99.0706052130150.2107@banana.sluggo.net>

2007-06-05, Monsieur Wolfger a ecrit:
> On 6/5/07, bob dion <bobdion at starline-ent.com> wrote:
>> So Microsoft it-self has become a cancer.
> What do you mean "has become"? I'd just say "is". Has been for a while.

Me, I'm still trying to figure out the hidden meaning of the hyphen
in "it-self"...

Michael


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Wed Jun  6 01:26:12 2007
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 01:26:12 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Linux in schools (from Canada)
Message-ID: <b67fb0380706052226w7156898arf68757b4b53290dc@mail.gmail.com>

I thought I'd share this wonderful Linux-in-schools story from
Kamloops BC, via Marcel Gagn?'s WFTL-LUG list:

http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=07/05/25/1536219

-- Mikey


From driveray at ameritech.net  Wed Jun  6 05:52:44 2007
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 05:52:44 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] O.T. Another Vista horror story
Message-ID: <466683EC.1000803@ameritech.net>

I came across this haven't finished it yet but had to share.
A professional writer is suddenly forced to use a Vista machine.
Warning *much* strong language. (Misnomer that, really. Often indicative
of a weak vocabulary.)

<http://www.johnringo.com/Abyss/OMFG.pdf>


From wolfger at gmail.com  Wed Jun  6 08:25:30 2007
From: wolfger at gmail.com (Wolfger)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 08:25:30 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] ah... much better!
Message-ID: <3b00b3330706060525y4ef043cfk6bd9530196e789b1@mail.gmail.com>

Have you ever been annoyed by the KDE popup box announcing a crash?
Well, things are looking to get much better (looking) with KDE4!
http://fbsd.za.net/2007/06/04/kde4-crashes-applications-beautifully/

-- 
Wolfger
http://wolfger.wordpress.com/
http://1fjordaroad.wordpress.com/
AOL IM: wolf4coyot
Yahoo!Messenger: wolfgersilberbaer
Skype: wolfger88


From radkins at impelind.com  Wed Jun  6 08:30:09 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 08:30:09 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] O.T. Another Vista horror story
In-Reply-To: <466683EC.1000803@ameritech.net>
References: <466683EC.1000803@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <4666A8D1.3090305@impelind.com>

    Computer frustrations do tend to take the most educated and 
otherwise well together people and convert them into raving expletive 
spewing blithering dunderheads...

    With that said, this guy was really getting hammered by those 
Digital Restrictions Management crap.

    I do my best to avoid that by purchasing physical CDs and then 
ripping to MP3 or another format and intend to always do so. (Hopefully, 
that won't change anytime soon...)

    -Rob

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> I came across this haven't finished it yet but had to share.
> A professional writer is suddenly forced to use a Vista machine.
> Warning *much* strong language. (Misnomer that, really. Often indicative
> of a weak vocabulary.)
>
> <http://www.johnringo.com/Abyss/OMFG.pdf>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>   


From bobdion at starline-ent.com  Wed Jun  6 10:27:40 2007
From: bobdion at starline-ent.com (Bob Dion)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 10:27:40 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT - no good deed unpunished
Message-ID: <4666C45C.3030103@starline-ent.com>

More evidence that working with MS is dangerous.


http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/06/05/microsoft_mvp_threats/

BD



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Wed Jun  6 10:30:30 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 10:30:30 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] O.T. Another Vista horror story
In-Reply-To: <466683EC.1000803@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DC2@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>


> From: Raymond McLaughlin


> Warning *much* strong language. (Misnomer that, really. Often 
> indicative of a weak vocabulary.)

 "Profanity is the last refuge of inarticulate mother$&@*ers." :->

> <http://www.johnringo.com/Abyss/OMFG.pdf>

 I picked my specific .sig because it's so appropriate to this case:

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                             (313) 227-2317

 "Trying to make bits uncopyable is like trying to make water not wet.
  The sooner people accept this, and build business models that take
  this into account, the sooner people will start making money again."
                          - Bruce Schneier

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. 


From cvweiss at gmail.com  Wed Jun  6 10:34:57 2007
From: cvweiss at gmail.com (Clinton V. Weiss)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 10:34:57 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] O.T. Another Vista horror story
In-Reply-To: <466683EC.1000803@ameritech.net>
References: <466683EC.1000803@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <f0e9fe590706060734m1d956767i70dbd18f4b2818a2@mail.gmail.com>

I've always ripped my music from my CD's I purchase or just downloaded
them from a p2p (and eventually bought the CD).  Or lately I just
listen to a lot of internet radio.  I have *never* bought my music
online.  Because of this behavior, I never truly understood what
people have against DRM, as it has never directly affected me.

After reading this I am very grateful for not buying into DRM'ed
music, and even more grateful that it hasn't affected me.  What a
*expletive* pain in the *expletive* it is just to transfer your own
*expletive* files from one *expletive* computer to another *expletive*
computer.  Of course, the expletives are out of respect for the author
and the hassle he is enduring.  What's sad, is he isn't done yet.
He'll have more computers in the future, and unless he re-purchases
all of his music, he must go through all of this again.

Here's to finally understanding the pain that DRM is, and hoping to
never have to deal with it myself *raises coffee*


-- 
Clinton V. Weiss
cvweiss at gmail.com


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Wed Jun  6 10:36:49 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 10:36:49 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] O.T. Another Vista horror story
In-Reply-To: <f0e9fe590706060734m1d956767i70dbd18f4b2818a2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DC3@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>


> From: Clinton V. Weiss

> Here's to finally understanding the pain that DRM is, and hoping to
> never have to deal with it myself *raises coffee*

 One more apropos .sig quote:

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                           (313) 227-2317

 "DRM 'manages access' in the same way that jail 'manages freedom.'"
                         - Mr. Chaotica

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. 


From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Wed Jun  6 11:25:43 2007
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 11:25:43 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT - no good deed unpunished
In-Reply-To: <4666C45C.3030103@starline-ent.com>
Message-ID: <C28C4A37.3894A%GregWojtak@quickenloans.com>

Well, 1600 has come and gone in the UK.  I wonder what the outcome was?


On 6/6/07 10:27 AM, "Bob Dion" <bobdion at starline-ent.com> wrote:

> More evidence that working with MS is dangerous.
> 
> 
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/06/05/microsoft_mvp_threats/
> 
> BD
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Wed Jun  6 11:29:36 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 11:29:36 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT - no good deed unpunished
In-Reply-To: <4666C45C.3030103@starline-ent.com>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DC6@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>


> From: Bob Dion

> More evidence that working with MS is dangerous.
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/06/05/microsoft_mvp_threats/

 When Windows was getting started, they were handing out developer tools
like candy. That's one of the reasons OS/2 tanked - the developer tools
cost many hundreds of dollars because IBM was used to charging mainframe
prices - which you can do when you have people locked in. MS needed to
build support for Windows so they made it very easy and inexpensive to
develop for. They recognized that encouraging more applications for their
platform would make it more attractive to people shopping for operating
systems.

 Of course, now Windows is a huge market with a lot of lock-in. So now
they want to be able to 'leverage' that to extract money from developers.
So they are 'monetizing' their development tools. And so things happen
like the above.

 It's not surprising, but it's just as big a mistake as IBM made. Linux
is taking off and from what I've seen almost every budding programmer
has at least *some* Linux experience. I think MS is going for a short-term
profit and screwing themselves out of long-term platform viability.

 (Of course, given the state of Vista, many of the managers at MS may
have seen the writing on the wall there and are just working to boost
their numbers while they can...)

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                                 (313) 227-2317

 "In an illustrative recent study, subjects were asked their opinion about
  a social welfare policy, which was described as being endorsed either by
   Democrats or by Republicans. Although the subjects sincerely believed
   that their responses were based on the objective merits of the policy,
   the major determinant of what they thought of the policy was in fact
  whether or not their favored political party was said to endorse it."
                - Paul Bloom and Deena Skolnick Weisberg

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. 


From micorral at comcast.net  Wed Jun  6 11:41:50 2007
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 11:41:50 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Subject: [mdlug] OT - no good deed unpunished
Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.4.64.0706061135330.796@w2zzzp0601.amer.corp.eds.com>

Bob Dion a ecrit:
> More evidence that working with MS is dangerous.
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/06/05/microsoft_mvp_threats/

s/dangerous/stupid/

Hopefully that guy has learned a lesson from this. I actually
don't feel too sorry for him, since he's developing a
closed-source product for a proprietary application from an
evil corporation. He got what he deserved, IMO.

Michael


From unforgiven24 at gmail.com  Wed Jun  6 11:51:40 2007
From: unforgiven24 at gmail.com (Mike Ward)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 11:51:40 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] ah... much better!
In-Reply-To: <3b00b3330706060525y4ef043cfk6bd9530196e789b1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3b00b3330706060525y4ef043cfk6bd9530196e789b1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5aa434200706060851y6c6bf6b4v3b386e925d9ed518@mail.gmail.com>

I refuse to run bloaty eye candy so my apps look neater when they
crash. It's not common anyway.

But with that disclaimer, that is kind of cool :)

- Mike


On 6/6/07, Wolfger <wolfger at gmail.com> wrote:
> Have you ever been annoyed by the KDE popup box announcing a crash?
> Well, things are looking to get much better (looking) with KDE4!
> http://fbsd.za.net/2007/06/04/kde4-crashes-applications-beautifully/
>
> --
> Wolfger
> http://wolfger.wordpress.com/
> http://1fjordaroad.wordpress.com/
> AOL IM: wolf4coyot
> Yahoo!Messenger: wolfgersilberbaer
> Skype: wolfger88
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Wed Jun  6 11:53:58 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 11:53:58 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] ISA modems, NIC
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33D9C@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DC7@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Ingles, Raymond

 I can't make the meeting, but if someone wants to come to Farmington Hills
to pick them up, they're available.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                                     (313) 227-2317

 "There is no distinction in nature between microevolution and macroevolution.
 Macroevolution is just larger quantities of microevolution over much longer
 times. It's like saying that there's 'microwalking' which is what I do from
 the car park to the office every morning, and down to the shops on weekends,
 and that can result in changes of my location over time on a small scale; but
 the idea that people, over tens of thousands of years walked out of central
 Africa into Europe, then over to Asia, across to North America and into South
 America - that's 'macrowalking' and it's impossible. God must have put them
                        there." - Anthony Steele

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. 


From tesral at comcast.net  Wed Jun  6 12:08:54 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 12:08:54 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Linux in schools (from Canada)
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380706052226w7156898arf68757b4b53290dc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380706052226w7156898arf68757b4b53290dc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4666DC16.4020906@comcast.net>

Michael Rudas wrote:
> I thought I'd share this wonderful Linux-in-schools story from
> Kamloops BC, via Marcel Gagn?'s WFTL-LUG list:
>
>   
That looks like the way to do that.

BTW, do we have an agenda for Saturday?


-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From z_mikowski at yahoo.com  Wed Jun  6 13:26:02 2007
From: z_mikowski at yahoo.com (Michael S. Mikowski)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 10:26:02 -0700
Subject: [mdlug] ah... much better!
In-Reply-To: <3b00b3330706060525y4ef043cfk6bd9530196e789b1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3b00b3330706060525y4ef043cfk6bd9530196e789b1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200706061026.02432.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>

On Wednesday 06 June 2007, Wolfger wrote:
> Have you ever been annoyed by the KDE popup box announcing a crash?
> Well, things are looking to get much better (looking) with KDE4!
> http://fbsd.za.net/2007/06/04/kde4-crashes-applications-beautifully/

Take a look at the kwin stuff for kde4.

http://dot.kde.org/1180541665/

This looks awesome!

-- 
Mike
www.dynaorg.com


From driveray at ameritech.net  Wed Jun  6 13:47:10 2007
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 13:47:10 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] O.T. Another Vista horror story
In-Reply-To: <f0e9fe590706060734m1d956767i70dbd18f4b2818a2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <466683EC.1000803@ameritech.net>
	<f0e9fe590706060734m1d956767i70dbd18f4b2818a2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4666F31E.6000409@ameritech.net>

Clinton V. Weiss wrote:

> Because of this behavior, I never truly understood what
> people have against DRM, as it has never directly affected me.

I've always understood DRM this way, "Western civilization was nice
while it lasted." My reasoning is this: one of the harbingers of modern
western civilization was the translation of the Bible into the common
tongues, particularly English. The powers that were in those days wanted
to suppress this for perfectly justified (in their own opinion) reasons.
Prior to the printing press they were able to do so, afterwards, there
were too many copies to hunt down. Had those powers been able to
instantly make all those printed Bibles unreadable they, of course,
would have. But they couldn't, and so the forces leading to mass
literacy and enlightenment began to gain momentum.

In our age, as electronic media are replacing printed media, the
mechanisms of DRM hand this very power to ill-defined authorities. Even
if you accept the enforcement of copy rights as a justification for DRM,
implementing it implies far greater trust than I have for any
authorities I can think of. It is not, in my opinion, a start down a
slippery slope, but rather a step off a sheer cliff face.

Under a DRM regime, asserting your right to read, which is supposedly
implicit in the right of free expression, devolves literally to asking
permission to read several million times per second. With one "NO"
vetoing millions of yeses.

But perhaps I exaggerate.

> After reading this I am very grateful for not buying into DRM'ed
> music, and even more grateful that it hasn't affected me.  What a
> *expletive* pain in the *expletive* it is just to transfer your own
> *expletive* files from one *expletive* computer to another *expletive*
> computer.  Of course, the expletives are out of respect for the author
> and the hassle he is enduring.  What's sad, is he isn't done yet.
> He'll have more computers in the future, and unless he re-purchases
> all of his music, he must go through all of this again.

The "final solution" to his problem that they (MS tech Cathy and he)
came up with was to burn audio CDs from his tunes (at the first
opportunity) and then rip mp3's from them. *Lots* of CDs.

> Here's to finally understanding the pain that DRM is, and hoping to
> never have to deal with it myself *raises coffee*

Here here. (Or is that hear hear?)

Raymond McLaughlin



From rborromeo at the5spot.com  Wed Jun  6 17:34:17 2007
From: rborromeo at the5spot.com (rborromeo at the5spot.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 17:34:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] ah... much better!
In-Reply-To: <200706061026.02432.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>
References: <3b00b3330706060525y4ef043cfk6bd9530196e789b1@mail.gmail.com>
	<200706061026.02432.z_mikowski@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1720.209.124.37.20.1181165657.squirrel@209.124.37.10>

> On Wednesday 06 June 2007, Wolfger wrote:
>> Have you ever been annoyed by the KDE popup box announcing a crash?
>> Well, things are looking to get much better (looking) with KDE4!
>> http://fbsd.za.net/2007/06/04/kde4-crashes-applications-beautifully/
>
> Take a look at the kwin stuff for kde4.
>
> http://dot.kde.org/1180541665/
>
> This looks awesome!
>
> --
> Mike
> www.dynaorg.com

Face it the GUI war was over with Jaguar. The KDE stuff looks like a cheap
knock off of Expose + Quicksilver.



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Jun  6 18:36:47 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 18:36:47 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Patents on software fixes
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706061536y18357f75v9abfdb197baf046e@mail.gmail.com>

Let M$ reap the rewards of the IP mess they help create:
www.theregister.co.uk/2007/06/06/security_fix_patent/


From fativi at gmail.com  Thu Jun  7 00:30:52 2007
From: fativi at gmail.com (Brian)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 00:30:52 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] O.T. Another Vista horror story
In-Reply-To: <4666F31E.6000409@ameritech.net>
References: <466683EC.1000803@ameritech.net>
	<f0e9fe590706060734m1d956767i70dbd18f4b2818a2@mail.gmail.com>
	<4666F31E.6000409@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <6f64e9540706062130t10469d5aq5c62e68277962fa8@mail.gmail.com>

> The "final solution" to his problem that they (MS tech Cathy and he)
> came up with was to burn audio CDs from his tunes (at the first
> opportunity) and then rip mp3's from them. *Lots* of CDs.
>

Not to mention plenty of audio signal degradation :/

-- 
Fati
"It's not stupid, it's advaaanced!" - Tallest Purple


From micorral at comcast.net  Thu Jun  7 01:41:48 2007
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 01:41:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] ah... much better!
In-Reply-To: <3b00b3330706060525y4ef043cfk6bd9530196e789b1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3b00b3330706060525y4ef043cfk6bd9530196e789b1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.0.99.0706070136360.2205@banana.sluggo.net>

2007-06-06, Monsieur Wolfger a ecrit:
> Have you ever been annoyed by the KDE popup box announcing a crash?
> Well, things are looking to get much better (looking) with KDE4!
> http://fbsd.za.net/2007/06/04/kde4-crashes-applications-beautifully/

What bugs me about this is that the user's system is using Spanish
as the language, yet the KDE crash message is in English. Is KDE's
internationalization support that poor? That's not too impressive.

Michael


From fativi at gmail.com  Thu Jun  7 01:58:38 2007
From: fativi at gmail.com (Brian)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 01:58:38 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] ah... much better!
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.0.99.0706070136360.2205@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <3b00b3330706060525y4ef043cfk6bd9530196e789b1@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.0.99.0706070136360.2205@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <6f64e9540706062258h51505134yd48f3b35b1510959@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/7/07, Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net> wrote:
> 2007-06-06, Monsieur Wolfger a ecrit:
> > Have you ever been annoyed by the KDE popup box announcing a crash?
> > Well, things are looking to get much better (looking) with KDE4!
> > http://fbsd.za.net/2007/06/04/kde4-crashes-applications-beautifully/
>
> What bugs me about this is that the user's system is using Spanish
> as the language, yet the KDE crash message is in English. Is KDE's
> internationalization support that poor? That's not too impressive.
>
It's not a real screen shot of a working system, it's a gimp mock-up
of what they want to do.


-- 
Fati
"It's not stupid, it's advaaanced!" - Tallest Purple


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Thu Jun  7 07:46:40 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 07:46:40 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] ah... much better!
In-Reply-To: <1720.209.124.37.20.1181165657.squirrel@209.124.37.10>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DCB@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>


> From: rborromeo at the5spot.com

> Face it the GUI war was over with Jaguar. The KDE stuff looks 
> like a cheap knock off of Expose + Quicksilver.

 I'm minded of the Hyundai commercial where they admit that their car can't
park itself like a Lexus, but at less than half the price you can afford to
have someone park it for you.

 http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTM0OCwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzd

 "Mac OS X has some amazing capabilities, but you spend a lot of money.
Indeed, it seems the preferred method for solving Mac computer problems is
to buy your way out of it. Slow computer? Buy a new one. Want to convert a
file? Buy a utility. Want to do simple tasks? Buy a commercial program.
Peripherals don't work? Buy replacements."

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                            (313) 227-2317

 It is easier to be a "humanitarian" than to render your own country
   its proper due; it is easier to be a "patriot" than to make your
   community a better place to live in; it is easier to be a "civic
 leader" than to treat your own family with loving understanding; for
       the smaller the focus of attention, the harder the task.
                        -- Sydney J. Harris

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. 


From micorral at comcast.net  Thu Jun  7 11:37:21 2007
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 11:37:21 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Subject: [mdlug] ah... much better!
Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.4.64.0706071132180.3528@w2zzzp0601.amer.corp.eds.com>

Brian a ecrit:
>On 6/7/07, Michael Corral wrote:
>> 2007-06-06, Monsieur Wolfger a ecrit:
>>> Have you ever been annoyed by the KDE popup box announcing a crash?
>>> Well, things are looking to get much better (looking) with KDE4!
>>> http://fbsd.za.net/2007/06/04/kde4-crashes-applications-beautifully/
>>
>> What bugs me about this is that the user's system is using Spanish
>> as the language, yet the KDE crash message is in English. Is KDE's
>> internationalization support that poor? That's not too impressive.
>
> It's not a real screen shot of a working system, it's a gimp mock-up
> of what they want to do.

Well, couldn't they have mocked it up with the same language? ;)

I still think the best crash notice was from the old Macs with the
picture of a bomb. Too bad those occurred so frequently. :)

Michael


From tmorris at ugs.com  Thu Jun  7 12:09:39 2007
From: tmorris at ugs.com (Morris, Tim)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 11:09:39 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] ah... much better!
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DCB@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E202E92DB0@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>

I love this!

"If you have an iSight camera - like the MacBook did, it will ask you to
take a picture of yourself to be used as the login (and, if you use any
IM programs, your avatar). For this reason, be aware that clothing is
not optional when booting up a Mac for the first time." 


--  Tim Morris - UGS PLM Software

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Ingles, Raymond
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 7:47 AM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] ah... much better!


> From: rborromeo at the5spot.com

> Face it the GUI war was over with Jaguar. The KDE stuff looks like a 
> cheap knock off of Expose + Quicksilver.

 I'm minded of the Hyundai commercial where they admit that their car
can't park itself like a Lexus, but at less than half the price you can
afford to have someone park it for you.

 
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTM0OCwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzd

 "Mac OS X has some amazing capabilities, but you spend a lot of money.
Indeed, it seems the preferred method for solving Mac computer problems
is to buy your way out of it. Slow computer? Buy a new one. Want to
convert a file? Buy a utility. Want to do simple tasks? Buy a commercial
program.
Peripherals don't work? Buy replacements."

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                            (313) 227-2317

 It is easier to be a "humanitarian" than to render your own country
   its proper due; it is easier to be a "patriot" than to make your
   community a better place to live in; it is easier to be a "civic
leader" than to treat your own family with loving understanding; for
       the smaller the focus of attention, the harder the task.
                        -- Sydney J. Harris

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only.
It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the
named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it,
or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify
us immediately and then destroy it. 
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From millerc at cantonpl.org  Thu Jun  7 20:00:31 2007
From: millerc at cantonpl.org (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 20:00:31 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Topic for next meeting
Message-ID: <1927.216.144.215.245.1181260831.squirrel@mail.cantonpl.org>

Do we have a topic for the next meeting?

I thought it might be fun to try to set up and test a
Samba server for the school.  Mat, will you be there
and will we be able to access the file server through
ssh?  If so, you might have a working domain controller
by the end of the meeting.

c






From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Jun  7 23:57:01 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 23:57:01 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] O.T. Another Vista horror story
In-Reply-To: <466683EC.1000803@ameritech.net>
References: <466683EC.1000803@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706072057s4f0b5964k72f699f9f16e2dec@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/6/07, Raymond McLaughlin <driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
> I came across this haven't finished it yet but had to share.
> A professional writer is suddenly forced to use a Vista machine.
> Warning *much* strong language. (Misnomer that, really. Often indicative
> of a weak vocabulary.)

Its so wonderful to read about the joy that Micro$oft's technology
bestows upon computer users.  It brings tears to my eyes.


From mathew.enders at prodigy.net  Fri Jun  8 08:56:58 2007
From: mathew.enders at prodigy.net (Mathew Enders)
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 08:56:58 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Topic for next meeting
In-Reply-To: <1927.216.144.215.245.1181260831.squirrel@mail.cantonpl.org>
References: <1927.216.144.215.245.1181260831.squirrel@mail.cantonpl.org>
Message-ID: <1181307418.5608.45.camel@daddymobile>

On Thu, 2007-06-07 at 20:00 -0400, Carl T. Miller wrote:
> Do we have a topic for the next meeting?
> 
> I thought it might be fun to try to set up and test a
> Samba server for the school.  Mat, will you be there
> and will we be able to access the file server through
> ssh?  If so, you might have a working domain controller
> by the end of the meeting.

Carl In will be there and I want to do this however I do not have the
machine yet.  I will use the machiune from the mobile computing cart and
we can see if we can get it set up.  Then when I get the computer I was
going to use for the Samba server I will use it as the mobile computer.
This sounds like great Idea for a group project I will bring the Samba
documentatioin on using it as a primary domain controller.



From millerc at cantonpl.org  Fri Jun  8 09:27:03 2007
From: millerc at cantonpl.org (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 09:27:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Topic for next meeting
In-Reply-To: <1181307418.5608.45.camel@daddymobile>
References: <1927.216.144.215.245.1181260831.squirrel@mail.cantonpl.org>
	<1181307418.5608.45.camel@daddymobile>
Message-ID: <54362.66.51.146.97.1181309223.squirrel@mail.cantonpl.org>

Mathew Enders wrote:
> Carl In will be there and I want to do this however I do not have the
> machine yet.  I will use the machiune from the mobile computing cart and
> we can see if we can get it set up.  Then when I get the computer I was
> going to use for the Samba server I will use it as the mobile computer.
> This sounds like great Idea for a group project I will bring the Samba
> documentatioin on using it as a primary domain controller.

That sounds good.  We can set up the domain, create a few
user accounts, share home directories and set up one or
two common shared directories.  If we have time, we can
try to figure out how to save profiles and set users'
My Documents folders to be their home directories.

c




From otakurider at gmail.com  Fri Jun  8 09:39:47 2007
From: otakurider at gmail.com (-)
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 09:39:47 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Remote access "lights out" vis serial port.
Message-ID: <cd5131a50706080639m3442315fqcbdc3ec9b26e3e03@mail.gmail.com>

I have a group of machines that are not in a place that is easy to get to if
there is issues and the company does not want to pay for roving techs to
reboot or watch as the machines boot, or pay for KVM switches.

So question is.
Looking for some options to access my dell machines running Red Hat (multi
versions)  using the serial port.  I know Dell sells some remote management
cards but the hardware is so old that they do not have cards that will
work.

Some "like to haves" would be - Viewing boot up cycle, able to reboot
machine when nic cards are down,  X-windows over serial,  access to bios
changes.  I believe anything with low level hardware access most likely is
not possible via serial port but maybe some one has some ideas.

Thanks

VP
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070608/14c2dc47/attachment-0001.html>

From tmorris at ugs.com  Fri Jun  8 09:48:19 2007
From: tmorris at ugs.com (Morris, Tim)
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 08:48:19 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Serial I/O Card
Message-ID: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E202F16BB4@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>

Greetings all!
 
I have been tasked with (possibly) setting up a serial console server
for a few of our Sun racks. I'm planning on building a linux-rack-pc to
use as the master system (and connecting to the Suns using picocom or
something). I was wondering if any of you have experiences with the Syba
SD-PCI-6S PCI-based 6-port serial IO card.

<http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815124025>

Any alternatives are also welcome. Currently we have a total of about 6
(V440s) per rack, but I was thinking of buying 2 cards for
expandability, or possibly 2 4-port cards. 

Any insights or suggestions are welcomed!
 
 
--------------------------------------------------
Tim Morris
Systems Engineer
Siemens Automation and Drives
UGS PLM Software


From danno at umich.edu  Fri Jun  8 10:30:52 2007
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 10:30:52 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Remote access "lights out" vis serial port.
In-Reply-To: <cd5131a50706080639m3442315fqcbdc3ec9b26e3e03@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cd5131a50706080639m3442315fqcbdc3ec9b26e3e03@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070608143052.GA64374@maniac.deathstar.org>

if you have poweredge servers most of them have the option to send
the BIOS output to the serial port.  With some of the older servers
it required a bios update.

The oldest server I'm sure has this is a 2450.  

what i typicallly do is 
 a) set this in the BIOS but tell it not to redirect after boot
 b) tell grub to use a serial console
 c) run a getty on the serial port

I also have separate power controllers so i can reboot a wedged machine.  

To do X over a serial connection you'd need to configure PPP; it makes things
more complicated but it's possible.  

On Fri, Jun 08, 2007 at 09:39:47AM -0400, - wrote:
> I have a group of machines that are not in a place that is easy to get to if
> there is issues and the company does not want to pay for roving techs to
> reboot or watch as the machines boot, or pay for KVM switches.
> 
> So question is.
> Looking for some options to access my dell machines running Red Hat (multi
> versions)  using the serial port.  I know Dell sells some remote management
> cards but the hardware is so old that they do not have cards that will
> work.
> 
> Some "like to haves" would be - Viewing boot up cycle, able to reboot
> machine when nic cards are down,  X-windows over serial,  access to bios
> changes.  I believe anything with low level hardware access most likely is
> not possible via serial port but maybe some one has some ideas.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> VP

> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From danno at umich.edu  Fri Jun  8 10:32:16 2007
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 10:32:16 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Serial I/O Card
In-Reply-To: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E202F16BB4@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
References: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E202F16BB4@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
Message-ID: <20070608143216.GB64374@maniac.deathstar.org>

They're not cheap, but i'd recommend a dedicated terminal server
like a cyclades or digi; much less hassle, much easier to set up,
needs less maintenance.  

Make sure whatever you buy is "sun break safe".  

On Fri, Jun 08, 2007 at 08:48:19AM -0500, Morris, Tim wrote:
> Greetings all!
>  
> I have been tasked with (possibly) setting up a serial console server
> for a few of our Sun racks. I'm planning on building a linux-rack-pc to
> use as the master system (and connecting to the Suns using picocom or
> something). I was wondering if any of you have experiences with the Syba
> SD-PCI-6S PCI-based 6-port serial IO card.
> 
> <http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815124025>
> 
> Any alternatives are also welcome. Currently we have a total of about 6
> (V440s) per rack, but I was thinking of buying 2 cards for
> expandability, or possibly 2 4-port cards. 
> 
> Any insights or suggestions are welcomed!
>  
>  
> --------------------------------------------------
> Tim Morris
> Systems Engineer
> Siemens Automation and Drives
> UGS PLM Software
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Fri Jun  8 16:49:40 2007
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 16:49:40 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Serial I/O Card
References: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E202F16BB4@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
	<20070608143216.GB64374@maniac.deathstar.org>
Message-ID: <002001c7aa0e$89373830$6401a8c0@AMD2000>

Tim,

You really didn't say about how many machines total you were trying to hook 
up.  But from the sounds of it, you might have a few cabinets of 6 
servers...?  I would definetly look into a Cyclades box (which run on 
Linux).  I just did a search on eBay and saw a couple of them listed for 
~$500 with at least 16 ports.

-Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dan Pritts" <danno at umich.edu>
To: "MDLUG's Main discussion list" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 10:32 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Serial I/O Card


> They're not cheap, but i'd recommend a dedicated terminal server
> like a cyclades or digi; much less hassle, much easier to set up,
> needs less maintenance.
>
> Make sure whatever you buy is "sun break safe".
>
> On Fri, Jun 08, 2007 at 08:48:19AM -0500, Morris, Tim wrote:
>> Greetings all!
>>
>> I have been tasked with (possibly) setting up a serial console server
>> for a few of our Sun racks. I'm planning on building a linux-rack-pc to
>> use as the master system (and connecting to the Suns using picocom or
>> something). I was wondering if any of you have experiences with the Syba
>> SD-PCI-6S PCI-based 6-port serial IO card.
>>
>> <http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815124025>
>>
>> Any alternatives are also welcome. Currently we have a total of about 6
>> (V440s) per rack, but I was thinking of buying 2 cards for
>> expandability, or possibly 2 4-port cards.
>>
>> Any insights or suggestions are welcomed!
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> Tim Morris
>> Systems Engineer
>> Siemens Automation and Drives
>> UGS PLM Software
>> _______________________________________________
>> mdlug mailing list
>> mdlug at mdlug.org
>> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
> danno
> --
> dan pritts
> danno at umich.edu
> 734-929-9770
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.8.11/838 - Release Date: 6/7/2007 
> 2:21 PM
>
> 



From markmont at umich.edu  Fri Jun  8 18:19:14 2007
From: markmont at umich.edu (Mark Montague)
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 18:19:14 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Linux jobs at the University of Michigan
Message-ID: <4669D5E2.4080206@umich.edu>


The University of Michigan has three jobs available in one of it's
central IT infrastructure departments.  The department has over 650
servers, nearly all of which run Linux (and the fewer-than-a-dozen that
do not are being moved to Linux as quickly as possible).


Web Applications Developer (entry-level to mid-level)
50% PHP developer, 50% DBA (MySQL and/or Oracle).
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~markmont/job1.html


Linux Developer (senior level)
C and Perl development, TCP/IP socket programming, Linux kernel support,
Kerberos, LDAP, AFS.
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~markmont/job2.html


Backup and Storage Specialist (senior level)
IBM/Tivoli TSM, large scale storage management (over 200 TB), scripting,
system administration.
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~markmont/job3.html


Feel free to forward this information to anyone else who you think may
be interested.

                 Mark Montague
                 ITCS Web/Database Production Team
                 The University of Michigan
                 markmont at umich.edu


-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: smime.p7s
Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature
Size: 4502 bytes
Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070608/3f252712/attachment-0001.bin>

From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Fri Jun  8 20:41:00 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 20:41:00 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Remote access "lights out" vis serial port.
In-Reply-To: <cd5131a50706080639m3442315fqcbdc3ec9b26e3e03@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cd5131a50706080639m3442315fqcbdc3ec9b26e3e03@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706081741q1a5da00bm5139ec5e42568206@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/8/07, - <otakurider at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have a group of machines that are not in a place that is easy to get to if
> there is issues and the company does not want to pay for roving techs to
> reboot or watch as the machines boot, or pay for KVM switches.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-of-band_management
www.howtoforge.com/setting_up_a_serial_console


From dobwan at earthlink.net  Mon Jun 11 18:52:15 2007
From: dobwan at earthlink.net (Duane Brown)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 18:52:15 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] [Discuss] tuesday mtg with John Terpstra
In-Reply-To: <466DB177.8020509@McQuil.com>
References: <466DB177.8020509@McQuil.com>
Message-ID: <466DD21F.4090001@earthlink.net>

WAA HOO, this is exactly what my selfish little (ok not so little) self 
was hoping for.

Duane

Jim McQuillan wrote:
> I picked up John Terpstra from the airport today.  Had a very 
> interesting talk with him about what's going on within AMD and some 
> other things he's doing.
>
> For those of you who are interested in the chatter about a Linux based 
> multimedia system, you'll find Johns talk tomorrow night quite 
> interesting.
>
> He's brought with him an AMD prototype Home media center system.  This 
> thing is pretty cool.  Set top box on steroids type thing.  He'll give 
> us a demo tomorrow night.
>
> Hope to see you all there.  6:30pm, Tuesday, June 12th at the 
> Farmington community library.
>
> Jim McQuillan
> jam at Ltsp.org
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at mug.org
> http://www.mug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>



From davidl at lmert.com  Mon Jun 11 22:45:21 2007
From: davidl at lmert.com (David Lee Lambert)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 22:45:21 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Going price for LCD TV set?
Message-ID: <200706112245.24358.davidl@lmert.com>

I have a friend who is moving halfway across the country and has offered to 
sell me his LCD TV,  but I have no idea what price I ought to offer him.  I 
don't know the exact specifications,  but it looked like it's about 40" 
diagonally,  LCD,  DVD aspect-ratio,  in good condition.  I ran a quick 
search on ebay but only found a lot of "wholesale buyers guides".  What is a 
fair price for a used thin-panel TV of that size,  in reasonably good 
condition? 

-- 
David Lee Lambert ... Software Developer
Cell phone: +1 586-873-8813 ; alt. email <as4109 at wayne.edu> or 
<lamber45 at msu.edu>
GPG key at http://www.lmert.com/keyring.txt


From drew4096 at gmail.com  Mon Jun 11 22:37:25 2007
From: drew4096 at gmail.com (Drew)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 22:37:25 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Scantool report
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20070611223552.0357e520@pop.gmail.com>

     The Scantool arrived today.

     It did not need to be soldered; and it included copious quantities of
cable, though I did have to make up a nullmodem as the device I intended
to run it on was a Palm. I got it without the fancy box, saving me $15
off the price; I'm making my own box for it.

     I had already had the OBD software on the Palm, so all that was
necessary was to make up the nullmodem, hook everything together, and
plug it in to the OBD port. Soon as the ignition was turned on I got
readings, including mass air flow, ranging from 6 grams per second at
idle, to well over 100 grams per second under high boost. There were
also readings of fuel trim, usually around zero; engine RPM, air and
coolant temperature, and vehicle speed.

     The Palm app has menu options for data recording, though I've yet
to figure out exactly where it puts this recording or how to get to it.

     I even managed to clear a trouble code, something about a catalyst
inefficiency, and got the Check Engine light turned off.

     The main glitch is that the vehicle speed readout from the OBD port
doesn't agree with either the speedometer or reality. When I have the
speed set to 40 MPH (which I have already determined is actually 46 MPH),
the VSS readout says I'm going 35. I would like to find out why, and
if possible establish that the MAF sensor is telling the truth.

     As stated I did not need soldering assistance after all. But what
I would like, whenever convenient, is if someone could bring along a
laptop to run the other software on, and ride along with me to see if
it reports the same numbers that the Palm version does. I have all the
necessary cables; and of course a nullmodem would not be necessary
in this case.

----

- Drew.



From davidl at lmert.com  Mon Jun 11 22:55:47 2007
From: davidl at lmert.com (David Lee Lambert)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 22:55:47 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] network appliance cracked?
In-Reply-To: <6f64e9540706041007g315a3131i5f20af6ae5178901@mail.gmail.com>
References: <548134.42048.qm@web81808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<6f64e9540706041007g315a3131i5f20af6ae5178901@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200706112255.48719.davidl@lmert.com>

On Monday 04 June 2007 13:07, Fati wrote:
> On 6/4/07, Dean Durant <mdlug at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > Hello, has anyone ever heard of a network appliance being cracked?
>
> [...]
> I don't understand completely, is this some kind of an NFS appliance?
> What is a "rootly thing" to do?

There is a company called "Network Appliance";  I seem to remember that the 
MSU Computer Science department uses one of their products as a fileserver 
for all the research groups.  Their flagship product has been around for 12 
years or more.  It talks SMB, NFS and NCP,  and has a custom Unix-like 
filesystem on top of RAID and battery backup.  They were one of the early NAS 
vendors,  before you could buy NAS-in-a-brick.  I've never personally owned 
one :)  .

-- 
David Lee Lambert ... Software Developer
Cell phone: +1 586-873-8813 ; alt. email <as4109 at wayne.edu> or 
<lamber45 at msu.edu>
GPG key at http://www.lmert.com/keyring.txt


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Tue Jun 12 01:25:59 2007
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 01:25:59 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Going price for LCD TV set?
In-Reply-To: <200706112245.24358.davidl@lmert.com>
References: <200706112245.24358.davidl@lmert.com>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380706112225m1cca718dg261c4e09a8ede9bc@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/11/07, David Lee Lambert wrote:

> I have a friend who is moving halfway across the country and has offered to
> sell me his LCD TV,  but I have no idea what price I ought to offer him.  I
> don't know the exact specifications,  but it looked like it's about 40"
> diagonally,  LCD,  DVD aspect-ratio,  in good condition.

Important information, missing:

1. Brand & model number (most of the rest can be determined from this).
2. Actual pixel resolution.
3. Is it 4:3 or 16:9 aspect ratio?  You say "DVD"-- but that's TOTALLY
meaningless.
4. Age and hours of use on set.
5. Types and numbers of video inputs.
6. Type(s) of tuner(s).

ALL of these factors are VERY important when considering resale value.

-- Mikey


From cvweiss at gmail.com  Tue Jun 12 07:52:14 2007
From: cvweiss at gmail.com (Clinton V. Weiss)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 07:52:14 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.
Message-ID: <f0e9fe590706120452s221e52d9lac19c2be3a15801b@mail.gmail.com>

(I'm not affiliated with this company at all - I'm just truly impressed)

Interesting storage system, lets you pop in/out drives at a whim to
replace dead drives or increase storage:

http://www.drobo.com/products_demo.aspx

Does anyone know of any other self-containing alternatives that are
this efficient?  This definitely seems worthwhile, but I'm not liking
the price tag.

-- 
Clinton V. Weiss
cvweiss at gmail.com


From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Tue Jun 12 08:59:50 2007
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 08:59:50 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.
References: <f0e9fe590706120452s221e52d9lac19c2be3a15801b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c7acf1$901f88b0$6401a8c0@AMD2000>

According to Jim Shaw (marketing person doing the demo), he described it as 
the worlds first "storage robot".  Where is the mechanical arm that changes 
the drives for you?  Doesn't seem to have any "robotic" features that I 
could see.  Maybe a better description would be, "the most user-friendly 
storage device" or "most intelligent storage device".  Looks like the price 
reflects that fact too.  Pretty much a no-brainer as far as storage arrays 
go.  Very cool.

-Mike


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Clinton V. Weiss" <cvweiss at gmail.com>
To: "MDLUG's Main discussion list" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 7:52 AM
Subject: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.


> (I'm not affiliated with this company at all - I'm just truly impressed)
>
> Interesting storage system, lets you pop in/out drives at a whim to
> replace dead drives or increase storage:
>
> http://www.drobo.com/products_demo.aspx
>
> Does anyone know of any other self-containing alternatives that are
> this efficient?  This definitely seems worthwhile, but I'm not liking
> the price tag.
>
> -- 
> Clinton V. Weiss
> cvweiss at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.8.11/838 - Release Date: 6/7/2007 
> 2:21 PM
>
> 



From tmorris at ugs.com  Tue Jun 12 09:05:10 2007
From: tmorris at ugs.com (Morris, Tim)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 08:05:10 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Going price for LCD TV set?
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380706112225m1cca718dg261c4e09a8ede9bc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E202F175CA@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>

As a reference, I believe Costco has the Vizio 42" GV42L for $1100. This
is a cheaper set than most, so if your friend wants to sell you a Sony,
obviously there needs to be a price adjustment. Of course, that is the
Brand-spanking-new price, so "used" would most likely be at least half
that, if not less. Your best bet is to check the classifieds for the
area and find something comparable to what they are offering.


--  Tim Morris - UGS PLM Software

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Michael Rudas
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 1:26 AM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Going price for LCD TV set?

On 6/11/07, David Lee Lambert wrote:

> I have a friend who is moving halfway across the country and has 
> offered to sell me his LCD TV,  but I have no idea what price I ought 
> to offer him.  I don't know the exact specifications,  but it looked
like it's about 40"
> diagonally,  LCD,  DVD aspect-ratio,  in good condition.

Important information, missing:

1. Brand & model number (most of the rest can be determined from this).
2. Actual pixel resolution.
3. Is it 4:3 or 16:9 aspect ratio?  You say "DVD"-- but that's TOTALLY
meaningless.
4. Age and hours of use on set.
5. Types and numbers of video inputs.
6. Type(s) of tuner(s).

ALL of these factors are VERY important when considering resale value.

-- Mikey
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From tmorris at ugs.com  Tue Jun 12 09:57:03 2007
From: tmorris at ugs.com (Morris, Tim)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 08:57:03 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.
In-Reply-To: <000f01c7acf1$901f88b0$6401a8c0@AMD2000>
Message-ID: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E202F17658@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>

According to dictionary.com, a robot is:
1.	a machine that resembles a human and does mechanical, routine
tasks on command.
2.	a person who acts and responds in a mechanical, routine manner,
usually subject to another's will; automaton.
3.	any machine or mechanical device that operates automatically
with humanlike skill. -adjective
4.	operating automatically: a robot train operating between airline
terminals. 

The drobo does meet the 3rd and 4th definitions ;)


--  Tim Morris - UGS PLM Software

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Michael ORourke
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 9:00 AM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.

According to Jim Shaw (marketing person doing the demo), he described it
as the worlds first "storage robot".  Where is the mechanical arm that
changes the drives for you?  Doesn't seem to have any "robotic" features
that I could see.  Maybe a better description would be, "the most
user-friendly storage device" or "most intelligent storage device".
Looks like the price reflects that fact too.  Pretty much a no-brainer
as far as storage arrays go.  Very cool.

-Mike


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Clinton V. Weiss" <cvweiss at gmail.com>
To: "MDLUG's Main discussion list" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 7:52 AM
Subject: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.


> (I'm not affiliated with this company at all - I'm just truly
impressed)
>
> Interesting storage system, lets you pop in/out drives at a whim to
> replace dead drives or increase storage:
>
> http://www.drobo.com/products_demo.aspx
>
> Does anyone know of any other self-containing alternatives that are
> this efficient?  This definitely seems worthwhile, but I'm not liking
> the price tag.
>
> -- 
> Clinton V. Weiss
> cvweiss at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.8.11/838 - Release Date:
6/7/2007 
> 2:21 PM
>
> 

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From radkins at impelind.com  Tue Jun 12 10:21:14 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:21:14 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Going price for LCD TV set?
In-Reply-To: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E202F175CA@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
References: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E202F175CA@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
Message-ID: <466EABDA.7050609@impelind.com>

    Does it have HDMI capability?

    If so, as a Sony, it's likely got a decent quality HDMI processing unit.

    If it's an El-Cheapo brand from a warehouse store, it might have a 
sub-par or JUST barely adequate HDMI processor. Sure, it will work, most 
of the time...

    Then it might start missing some of those insanely stupid DRM 
Handshakes that those assha.. er uh.. sorry, slipping into rant mode...

    It might start hicupping on some of the DRM Handshakes that are 
supposed to happen every few seconds between the TV and the HD device 
you have feeding it. If that happens, you'll be looking at a wonderfully 
blank screen, which certainly "helps" you as the consumer to have the 
"rights" to watch the movie you purchased on your wholly unmodified 
personal entertainment equipment...

    -Rob

Morris, Tim wrote:
> As a reference, I believe Costco has the Vizio 42" GV42L for $1100. This
> is a cheaper set than most, so if your friend wants to sell you a Sony,
> obviously there needs to be a price adjustment. Of course, that is the
> Brand-spanking-new price, so "used" would most likely be at least half
> that, if not less. Your best bet is to check the classifieds for the
> area and find something comparable to what they are offering.
>
>
> --  Tim Morris - UGS PLM Software
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
> Of Michael Rudas
> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 1:26 AM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Going price for LCD TV set?
>
> On 6/11/07, David Lee Lambert wrote:
>
>   
>> I have a friend who is moving halfway across the country and has 
>> offered to sell me his LCD TV,  but I have no idea what price I ought 
>> to offer him.  I don't know the exact specifications,  but it looked
>>     
> like it's about 40"
>   
>> diagonally,  LCD,  DVD aspect-ratio,  in good condition.
>>     
>
> Important information, missing:
>
> 1. Brand & model number (most of the rest can be determined from this).
> 2. Actual pixel resolution.
> 3. Is it 4:3 or 16:9 aspect ratio?  You say "DVD"-- but that's TOTALLY
> meaningless.
> 4. Age and hours of use on set.
> 5. Types and numbers of video inputs.
> 6. Type(s) of tuner(s).
>
> ALL of these factors are VERY important when considering resale value.
>
> -- Mikey
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>   


From tesral at comcast.net  Tue Jun 12 12:59:29 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 12:59:29 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.
In-Reply-To: <f0e9fe590706120452s221e52d9lac19c2be3a15801b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f0e9fe590706120452s221e52d9lac19c2be3a15801b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <466ED0F1.8070303@comcast.net>

Clinton V. Weiss wrote:
> (I'm not affiliated with this company at all - I'm just truly impressed)
>
> Interesting storage system, lets you pop in/out drives at a whim to
> replace dead drives or increase storage:
>
> http://www.drobo.com/products_demo.aspx
>
> Does anyone know of any other self-containing alternatives that are
> this efficient?  This definitely seems worthwhile, but I'm not liking
> the price tag.
>
>   
I see what you mean about price.  And as usual, no Linux support.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From rborromeo at the5spot.com  Tue Jun 12 15:32:04 2007
From: rborromeo at the5spot.com (rborromeo at the5spot.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 15:32:04 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.
References: <f0e9fe590706120452s221e52d9lac19c2be3a15801b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <059e01c7ad28$67d07400$0300c80a@terzo>

> (I'm not affiliated with this company at all - I'm just truly impressed)
>
> Interesting storage system, lets you pop in/out drives at a whim to
> replace dead drives or increase storage:
>
> http://www.drobo.com/products_demo.aspx
>
> Does anyone know of any other self-containing alternatives that are
> this efficient?  This definitely seems worthwhile, but I'm not liking
> the price tag.
>


Not quite the same but does the trick  LVM + eSATA RAID it's a poor mans 
AX100 



From fativi at gmail.com  Tue Jun 12 16:07:34 2007
From: fativi at gmail.com (Brian)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 16:07:34 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.
In-Reply-To: <466ED0F1.8070303@comcast.net>
References: <f0e9fe590706120452s221e52d9lac19c2be3a15801b@mail.gmail.com>
	<466ED0F1.8070303@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <6f64e9540706121307o5e0c8acx9c97a9122df22115@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/12/07, Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:
> I see what you mean about price.  And as usual, no Linux support.
>
> --
> Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.
>

Actually, browsing through google, I found this post on their forums
rumoring their work for releasing tools for Linux.  It would seem that
it doesn't require windows/mac for functionality necessarily but for
monitoring and for the LED's to blink properly ;)  That price tag does
suck though.

http://www.drobospace.com/forum/thread/10402/What-happens-under-Linux-/

-- 
Fati
"It's not stupid, it's advaaanced!" - Tallest Purple


From cvweiss at gmail.com  Tue Jun 12 16:45:53 2007
From: cvweiss at gmail.com (Clinton V. Weiss)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 16:45:53 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.
In-Reply-To: <6f64e9540706121307o5e0c8acx9c97a9122df22115@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f0e9fe590706120452s221e52d9lac19c2be3a15801b@mail.gmail.com>
	<466ED0F1.8070303@comcast.net>
	<6f64e9540706121307o5e0c8acx9c97a9122df22115@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f0e9fe590706121345j2e6645bldb6b9de4c42663c5@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/12/07, Brian <fativi at gmail.com> wrote:
> Actually, browsing through google, I found this post on their forums
> rumoring their work for releasing tools for Linux.  It would seem that
> it doesn't require windows/mac for functionality necessarily but for
> monitoring and for the LED's to blink properly ;)  That price tag does
> suck though.
>

If it requires the computer itself to figure out which LED's need to
blink/light up/etc., then I don't want it anymore.

-- 
Clinton V. Weiss
cvweiss at gmail.com


From tesral at comcast.net  Tue Jun 12 16:56:31 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 16:56:31 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.
In-Reply-To: <f0e9fe590706121345j2e6645bldb6b9de4c42663c5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f0e9fe590706120452s221e52d9lac19c2be3a15801b@mail.gmail.com>	<466ED0F1.8070303@comcast.net>	<6f64e9540706121307o5e0c8acx9c97a9122df22115@mail.gmail.com>
	<f0e9fe590706121345j2e6645bldb6b9de4c42663c5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <466F087F.8030808@comcast.net>

Clinton V. Weiss wrote:
> If it requires the computer itself to figure out which LED's need to
> blink/light up/etc., then I don't want it anymore.
>
>   
It's hardly independent and automatic, is it?

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Tue Jun 12 17:57:32 2007
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 17:57:32 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.
References: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E202F17658@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
Message-ID: <005001c7ad3c$ade04e70$6401a8c0@AMD2000>

Well it would definetly qualify for #4.  So according to dictionary.com, I 
guess it is a robot.
However, I think "user-friendly storage device" would be a better 
description.
Just my $.02 worth.
Too bad it's not supported under Linux (yet).

-Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Morris, Tim" <tmorris at ugs.com>
To: "MDLUG's Main discussion list" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.


> According to dictionary.com, a robot is:
> 1. a machine that resembles a human and does mechanical, routine
> tasks on command.
> 2. a person who acts and responds in a mechanical, routine manner,
> usually subject to another's will; automaton.
> 3. any machine or mechanical device that operates automatically
> with humanlike skill. -adjective
> 4. operating automatically: a robot train operating between airline
> terminals.
>
> The drobo does meet the 3rd and 4th definitions ;)
>
>
> --  Tim Morris - UGS PLM Software
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
> Of Michael ORourke
> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 9:00 AM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.
>
> According to Jim Shaw (marketing person doing the demo), he described it
> as the worlds first "storage robot".  Where is the mechanical arm that
> changes the drives for you?  Doesn't seem to have any "robotic" features
> that I could see.  Maybe a better description would be, "the most
> user-friendly storage device" or "most intelligent storage device".
> Looks like the price reflects that fact too.  Pretty much a no-brainer
> as far as storage arrays go.  Very cool.
>
> -Mike
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Clinton V. Weiss" <cvweiss at gmail.com>
> To: "MDLUG's Main discussion list" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 7:52 AM
> Subject: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.
>
>
>> (I'm not affiliated with this company at all - I'm just truly
> impressed)
>>
>> Interesting storage system, lets you pop in/out drives at a whim to
>> replace dead drives or increase storage:
>>
>> http://www.drobo.com/products_demo.aspx
>>
>> Does anyone know of any other self-containing alternatives that are
>> this efficient?  This definitely seems worthwhile, but I'm not liking
>> the price tag.
>>
>> -- 
>> Clinton V. Weiss
>> cvweiss at gmail.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> mdlug mailing list
>> mdlug at mdlug.org
>> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.8.11/838 - Release Date:
> 6/7/2007
>> 2:21 PM
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.8.11/838 - Release Date: 6/7/2007 
> 2:21 PM
>
> 



From jvartanian at gmail.com  Tue Jun 12 18:02:48 2007
From: jvartanian at gmail.com (Joseph Vartanian)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 18:02:48 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Going price for LCD TV set?
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380706112225m1cca718dg261c4e09a8ede9bc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200706112245.24358.davidl@lmert.com>
	<b67fb0380706112225m1cca718dg261c4e09a8ede9bc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dd889b430706121502h5e30b8f6n7d18f636b1aaca6@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/12/07, Michael Rudas <audiotech50 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 6/11/07, David Lee Lambert wrote:
>
> > I have a friend who is moving halfway across the country and has offered to
> > sell me his LCD TV,  but I have no idea what price I ought to offer him.  I
> > don't know the exact specifications,  but it looked like it's about 40"
> > diagonally,  LCD,  DVD aspect-ratio,  in good condition.
>
> Important information, missing:
>
> 1. Brand & model number (most of the rest can be determined from this).
> 2. Actual pixel resolution.
> 3. Is it 4:3 or 16:9 aspect ratio?  You say "DVD"-- but that's TOTALLY
> meaningless.
> 4. Age and hours of use on set.
> 5. Types and numbers of video inputs.
> 6. Type(s) of tuner(s).
>
> ALL of these factors are VERY important when considering resale value.
>

Good points there.  All of these are important things to consider, but
there is one more thing to consider...picture quality.  There are now
lots of low priced LCD and plasma TVs that look great on paper, but
have absolutely horrible pictures.  The screens are not all created
equal...nowhere near equal.  People want less expensive TV's with all
the bells and whistles, and companies are going to cut as may corners
as possible to manufacture them.  The worst I ever saw was a $700 37"
LCD that was so slow that I could notice the frames changing.  I
wouldn't have believed it if I had not seen it myself.

Basically, when buying an LCD TV, make sure that you worry about the
quality of the actual LCD part of it before anything else.  Go look at
the thing and see how good its picture is.

-Joseph


-Joseph


From linux at ksimachine.com  Tue Jun 12 19:13:19 2007
From: linux at ksimachine.com (Joe St.Clair)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 19:13:19 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.
In-Reply-To: <f0e9fe590706120452s221e52d9lac19c2be3a15801b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f0e9fe590706120452s221e52d9lac19c2be3a15801b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <466F288F.1080209@ksimachine.com>

I just ordered a Promise NS4300N.  It is fairly new, but supports
Windows, Linus/Unix and Mac.
I got it for $389.79 with out drives.  I am putting (4) 750gig Seagate
drives in it.

It has FTP/SMB/CIFS/AFP/NFS Network Protocols Support, RAID 0,1,5,10.
It also has USB HDDs, Printer and UPS Support.

Here is the link to the Promise page.

http://www.promise.com/product/product_detail_eng.asp?product_id=177

Joseph St.Clair

Clinton V. Weiss wrote:
> (I'm not affiliated with this company at all - I'm just truly impressed)
>
> Interesting storage system, lets you pop in/out drives at a whim to
> replace dead drives or increase storage:
>
> http://www.drobo.com/products_demo.aspx
>
> Does anyone know of any other self-containing alternatives that are
> this efficient?  This definitely seems worthwhile, but I'm not liking
> the price tag.
>
>   



From tesral at comcast.net  Tue Jun 12 23:43:34 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 23:43:34 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.
In-Reply-To: <466F288F.1080209@ksimachine.com>
References: <f0e9fe590706120452s221e52d9lac19c2be3a15801b@mail.gmail.com>
	<466F288F.1080209@ksimachine.com>
Message-ID: <466F67E6.9080701@comcast.net>

Joe St.Clair wrote:
> I just ordered a Promise NS4300N.  It is fairly new, but supports
> Windows, Linus/Unix and Mac.
> I got it for $389.79 with out drives.  I am putting (4) 750gig Seagate
> drives in it.
>
> It has FTP/SMB/CIFS/AFP/NFS Network Protocols Support, RAID 0,1,5,10.
> It also has USB HDDs, Printer and UPS Support.
>
> Here is the link to the Promise page.
>
> http://www.promise.com/product/product_detail_eng.asp?product_id=177
>   

Damn...  Drool all over the keyboard.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From eaglecoach at wwnet.com  Tue Jun 12 22:19:15 2007
From: eaglecoach at wwnet.com (Dr. Robert J. Meier)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 22:19:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Scantool report
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20070611223552.0357e520@pop.gmail.com> (message from
	Drew on Mon, 11 Jun 2007 22:37:25 -0400)
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20070611223552.0357e520@pop.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070613021915.EF68A20AA5A@starfox.local>

Drew,

> The Scantool arrived today. ...
> As stated I did not need soldering assistance after all. ...
> Soon as the ignition was turned on I got readings, ...

Great.
[I've been pleased with my modem.]

> I had already had the OBD software on the Palm, ...

What software do you use?
How much does it cost?

TIA,
--
Bob


From danno at umich.edu  Thu Jun 14 11:15:26 2007
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 11:15:26 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.
In-Reply-To: <466F288F.1080209@ksimachine.com>
References: <f0e9fe590706120452s221e52d9lac19c2be3a15801b@mail.gmail.com>
	<466F288F.1080209@ksimachine.com>
Message-ID: <20070614151526.GA74452@maniac.deathstar.org>

Looks very interesting.  know anything about the hardware,
how hackable it is, etc?

On Tue, Jun 12, 2007 at 07:13:19PM -0400, Joe St.Clair wrote:
> I just ordered a Promise NS4300N.  It is fairly new, but supports
> Windows, Linus/Unix and Mac.
> I got it for $389.79 with out drives.  I am putting (4) 750gig Seagate
> drives in it.
> 
> It has FTP/SMB/CIFS/AFP/NFS Network Protocols Support, RAID 0,1,5,10.
> It also has USB HDDs, Printer and UPS Support.
> 
> Here is the link to the Promise page.
> 
> http://www.promise.com/product/product_detail_eng.asp?product_id=177
> 
> Joseph St.Clair
> 
> Clinton V. Weiss wrote:
> > (I'm not affiliated with this company at all - I'm just truly impressed)
> >
> > Interesting storage system, lets you pop in/out drives at a whim to
> > replace dead drives or increase storage:
> >
> > http://www.drobo.com/products_demo.aspx
> >
> > Does anyone know of any other self-containing alternatives that are
> > this efficient?  This definitely seems worthwhile, but I'm not liking
> > the price tag.
> >
> >   
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From tesral at comcast.net  Thu Jun 14 11:35:07 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 11:35:07 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.
In-Reply-To: <20070614151526.GA74452@maniac.deathstar.org>
References: <f0e9fe590706120452s221e52d9lac19c2be3a15801b@mail.gmail.com>	<466F288F.1080209@ksimachine.com>
	<20070614151526.GA74452@maniac.deathstar.org>
Message-ID: <4671602B.3040304@comcast.net>

Dan Pritts wrote:
> Looks very interesting.  know anything about the hardware,
> how hackable it is, etc?
>   

That's a geek.  The first thing we want to know about any hardware is: 
"How can I break it better?"

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From cvweiss at gmail.com  Thu Jun 14 13:33:00 2007
From: cvweiss at gmail.com (Clinton V. Weiss)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 13:33:00 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.
In-Reply-To: <4671602B.3040304@comcast.net>
References: <f0e9fe590706120452s221e52d9lac19c2be3a15801b@mail.gmail.com>
	<466F288F.1080209@ksimachine.com>
	<20070614151526.GA74452@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<4671602B.3040304@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <f0e9fe590706141033p587d82degbfc9ecb5d575311b@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/14/07, Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> That's a geek.  The first thing we want to know about any hardware is:
> "How can I break it better?"


Do I still get to be a geek if I'm always trying to break code to make it
better?

-- 
Clinton V. Weiss
cvweiss at gmail.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070614/a7ec6042/attachment-0001.html>

From tesral at comcast.net  Thu Jun 14 13:50:54 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 13:50:54 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.
In-Reply-To: <f0e9fe590706141033p587d82degbfc9ecb5d575311b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f0e9fe590706120452s221e52d9lac19c2be3a15801b@mail.gmail.com>	<466F288F.1080209@ksimachine.com>	<20070614151526.GA74452@maniac.deathstar.org>	<4671602B.3040304@comcast.net>
	<f0e9fe590706141033p587d82degbfc9ecb5d575311b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46717FFE.8070609@comcast.net>

Clinton V. Weiss wrote:
> On 6/14/07, *Garry Stahl* <tesral at comcast.net
> <mailto:tesral at comcast.net>> wrote:
>
>
>     That's a geek.  The first thing we want to know about any hardware is:
>     "How can I break it better?"
>
>
> Do I still get to be a geek if I'm always trying to break code to make
> it better?

Like you have to ask.


-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Thu Jun 14 13:51:47 2007
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 13:51:47 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.
References: <f0e9fe590706120452s221e52d9lac19c2be3a15801b@mail.gmail.com><466F288F.1080209@ksimachine.com><20070614151526.GA74452@maniac.deathstar.org><4671602B.3040304@comcast.net>
	<f0e9fe590706141033p587d82degbfc9ecb5d575311b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <006d01c7aeac$ade36f80$6401a8c0@AMD2000>

No, then you are a "hacker".  :-)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Clinton V. Weiss" <cvweiss at gmail.com>
To: "MDLUG's Main discussion list" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 1:33 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Dynamic storage system.


> On 6/14/07, Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> That's a geek.  The first thing we want to know about any hardware is:
>> "How can I break it better?"
>
>
> Do I still get to be a geek if I'm always trying to break code to make it
> better?
>
> -- 
> Clinton V. Weiss
> cvweiss at gmail.com
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.8.16/849 - Release Date: 6/14/2007 
12:44 PM



From ebradley01 at wowway.com  Fri Jun 15 16:55:05 2007
From: ebradley01 at wowway.com (ebradley01 at wowway.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 16:55:05 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Openmoko:  Open Source Mobile-Device Platform
Message-ID: <20070615205211.M68482@wowway.com>

Openmoko is a completely open-source OS platform for mobile devices.  It still
seems to be in its infancy; but the very idea of a totally open cell-phone
platform is worth keeping an eye on.

http://www.openmoko.org/


Evan
--
"The road of life is rocky, and you may stumble too.  So while you point your
finger; someone else is judging you."  --Bob Marley



From rrclark at rrclark.net  Sat Jun 16 17:48:26 2007
From: rrclark at rrclark.net (Rich Clark <rrclark@rrclark.net>)
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 17:48:26 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Xandros joins M$ "preferred Linux distro" list
In-Reply-To: <3b00b3330706051409m13d7c08amc10d09483ee6e40b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200706051153.l55BrvJc004487@groucho-dva.whizdomsoft.com>
	<46656722.6080704@starline-ent.com>
	<3b00b3330706051409m13d7c08amc10d09483ee6e40b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.0.81.0706161747360.11099@rich.rrclark.net>

On Tue, 5 Jun 2007, Wolfger wrote:

> On 6/5/07, bob dion <bobdion at starline-ent.com> wrote:
> >
> > So Microsoft it-self has become a cancer.
> 
> What do you mean "has become"? I'd just say "is". Has been for a while.

Further refinement:  :s/while/long, long time/


From Stan at mcomputersolutions.com  Wed Jun 20 22:33:16 2007
From: Stan at mcomputersolutions.com (Stan Green)
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:33:16 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Test
Message-ID: <200706202233.16980.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>

I have not seen anything in two days. 

Is this thing on?

Stan Green


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Jun 20 22:41:10 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:41:10 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Test
In-Reply-To: <200706202233.16980.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
References: <200706202233.16980.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706201941r3aec3ba0qdb0920a9973e8291@mail.gmail.com>

No. :D

On 6/20/07, Stan Green <Stan at mcomputersolutions.com> wrote:
> I have not seen anything in two days.
>
> Is this thing on?
>
> Stan Green
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From tesral at comcast.net  Thu Jun 21 00:31:13 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 00:31:13 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Test
In-Reply-To: <200706202233.16980.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
References: <200706202233.16980.Stan@mcomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <4679FF11.8000003@comcast.net>

Stan Green wrote:
> I have not seen anything in two days. 
>
> Is this thing on?
>   

No.  You did not see this message.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Thu Jun 21 08:28:00 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 08:28:00 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] NTFS-3g
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DE9@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>


 So, it's alleged that Linux finally has safe read-write access to NTFS
filesystems with the "third generation NTFS driver":

 http://www.ntfs-3g.org/

 I haven't bothered with this, but it'd be nice if it does, in fact,
work. Anyone here tried it? Any problems, or just good vibes?

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                              (313) 227-2317

 "We're seeing crazy uptime numbers now, like three months, six months.
   I fully expect we'll see a year of uptime when Windows .NET Server
     2003 is finished," - Jeff Stucky, Microsoft.com operations team
           (Unix systems regularly see multi-year uptimes.)

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. 


From wolfger at gmail.com  Thu Jun 21 08:47:21 2007
From: wolfger at gmail.com (Wolfger)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 08:47:21 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] NTFS-3g
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DE9@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DE9@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <3b00b3330706210547j346648d8i6f4931e7a8cce05@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/21/07, Ingles, Raymond <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:
>
>
> So, it's alleged that Linux finally has safe read-write access to NTFS
> filesystems with the "third generation NTFS driver":
>
> http://www.ntfs-3g.org/
>
> I haven't bothered with this, but it'd be nice if it does, in fact,
> work. Anyone here tried it? Any problems, or just good vibes?
>

I have used it under Mepis 6.5 and it worked great. The only complaint I
have is that whenever I accessed my XP partition with this, the next time I
booted into XP it wanted to do a disk check. The disk checks never turned up
any issues, though. Of course, I have since removed my need of this by
removing my XP partition...

-- 
Wolfger
http://wolfger.wordpress.com/
http://1fjordaroad.wordpress.com/
AOL IM: wolf4coyot
Yahoo!Messenger: wolfgersilberbaer
Skype: wolfger88
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070621/0803b441/attachment-0001.html>

From ebradley01 at wowway.com  Thu Jun 21 14:16:31 2007
From: ebradley01 at wowway.com (ebradley01 at wowway.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 14:16:31 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] NTFS-3g
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1182441602.27799.mdlug@mdlug.org>
References: <mailman.1.1182441602.27799.mdlug@mdlug.org>
Message-ID: <20070621180323.M62258@wowway.com>

I too have used ntfs-3g under Mepis 6.5, and it worked great for me as well. 
I used it with a Seagate FreeAgent USB external hard drive.  The system
noticed that I'd plugged in the drive and it automatically used 'ntfs-3g' as
the file system type.

I did, however, eventually have to move the Freeagent to my XP box since it's
AutoSpinDown feature is hard-coded to 15 minutes; after which it refuses to
spin back up and only gives I/O Errors whenever you try to read/write to it. 
I found a fix online, but I couldn't seem to get it to work on my Mepis system
(due to my ineptitude, not the system itself ;) ) and I just found it easier
to plug it into my XP box and share it on the network.


Just in case anyone's curious, here's the fix I mentioned:

http://tinyurl.com/2exfuv


Evan

--
"The road of life is rocky, and you may stumble too.  So while you point your
finger; someone else is judging you."  --Bob Marley


---------- Original Message -----------
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 08:28:00 -0400
> From: "Ingles, Raymond" <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com>
> Subject: [mdlug] NTFS-3g
> To: "Mdlug (E-mail)" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DE9 at nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
> 	
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
>  So, it's alleged that Linux finally has safe read-write access to NTFS
> filesystems with the "third generation NTFS driver":
> 
>  http://www.ntfs-3g.org/
> 
>  I haven't bothered with this, but it'd be nice if it does, in fact,
> work. Anyone here tried it? Any problems, or just good vibes?
> 
>  Sincerely,
> 
>  Ray Ingles                                              (313) 227-2317
> 
>  "We're seeing crazy uptime numbers now, like three months, six months.
>    I fully expect we'll see a year of uptime when Windows .NET Server
>      2003 is finished," - Jeff Stucky, Microsoft.com operations team
>            (Unix systems regularly see multi-year uptimes.)
> 
> The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee 
> only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you 
> are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy 
> or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in 
> error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.
> 
> ------------------------------
------- End of Original Message -------



From dcs.galco at gmail.com  Thu Jun 21 15:37:03 2007
From: dcs.galco at gmail.com (Deepak Chandrashekar)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 15:37:03 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] NTFS-3G
Message-ID: <bd2841150706211237p5059124cob9dab20c3b1dc1b9@mail.gmail.com>

I have used NTFS-3G. So, far it's pretty stable and the performance is very
good.
It uses FUSE.

Caveats:
       Have a recent kernel (> 2.6.20) to use the  kernel FUSE module or use
the latest FUSE distribution and build the kernel module externally.

-Deepak
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070621/da117e2e/attachment-0001.html>

From tesral at comcast.net  Thu Jun 21 16:03:02 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:03:02 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Networking
Message-ID: <467AD976.2000809@comcast.net>

I have a Linux box and an XP box on a peer to peer network.  I want the
two to talk as seamlessly as possible.
\
How to do?

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Jun 21 16:40:11 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:40:11 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Networking
In-Reply-To: <467AD976.2000809@comcast.net>
References: <467AD976.2000809@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706211340n381a491g56b9afc8ea262e66@mail.gmail.com>

Install samba.  In /etc/samba/smb.conf find and modify or add in the
global section:

    map to guest = bad user
   guest account = nobody
   invalid users = root
   create mask = 0666
   directory mask = 0777

Then just use whatever tool you need to set up shared folders with
write access.  I normally create a /home/public folder for network
sharing and a non-shared /home/local for local r/w for all users.

This setup needs a firewall and secure wireless since samba will let
the whole world access the share.  Make sure the other user home
directories are not browseable from the network.

On 6/21/07, Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:
> I have a Linux box and an XP box on a peer to peer network.  I want the
> two to talk as seamlessly as possible.
> \
> How to do?
>
> --
> Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.
>
> Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
> Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
> The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From cvweiss at gmail.com  Thu Jun 21 16:45:18 2007
From: cvweiss at gmail.com (Clinton V. Weiss)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:45:18 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Networking
In-Reply-To: <467AD976.2000809@comcast.net>
References: <467AD976.2000809@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <f0e9fe590706211345w367ab683l90f5c65d3088da0e@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/21/07, Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:
> I have a Linux box and an XP box on a peer to peer network.  I want the
> two to talk as seamlessly as possible.
> \
> How to do?

Give each of them some speakers, a microphone, a text to speech
program, a speech to text program.  Now start them up, call the linux
box Louis and the XP box Jane, and they should be talking in no time!

Be forewarned, Jane isn't as intelligent as Louis, so expect Jane to
bring down the quality of the conversation.

-- 
Clinton V. Weiss
cvweiss at gmail.com


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Thu Jun 21 22:35:05 2007
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 22:35:05 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] NTFS-3g
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DE9@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DE9@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380706211935w1d87dab1ge1331fa66cb1cfe0@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/21/07, Raymond Ingles wrote:
>
>  So, it's alleged that Linux finally has safe read-write access to NTFS
> filesystems with the "third generation NTFS driver":
>
>  I haven't bothered with this, but it'd be nice if it does, in fact,
> work. Anyone here tried it? Any problems, or just good vibes?

I have used it extensively; it's enabled by default under Knoppix
5.1.1 live CD/DVD-- when I installed the DVD to the hard drive, there
were minor HAL issues, but I fixed those.  I've not experienced
disk-check problems going back-and forth with either my dual-boot
Lin/Win XP setup or live CD/Win XP usage.  It's a bit slower than
writing to vfat or ext3 file systems, since it uses HAL + FUSE as a
transitional layer, but it works just fine-- no errors or lost data in
~5 months heavy use on both internal and USB-connected drives.

In Krusader, NTFS partitions are shown as (fuseblk) and full
read/write access is allowed.

-- Mikey


From rrclark at rrclark.net  Fri Jun 22 18:38:08 2007
From: rrclark at rrclark.net (Rich Clark <rrclark@rrclark.net>)
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 18:38:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Networking
In-Reply-To: <467AD976.2000809@comcast.net>
References: <467AD976.2000809@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.0.81.0706221837590.486@rich.rrclark.net>

On Thu, 21 Jun 2007, Garry Stahl wrote:

> I have a Linux box and an XP box on a peer to peer network.  I want the
> two to talk as seamlessly as possible.
> \
> How to do?

Samba.


From zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com  Sat Jun 23 12:55:26 2007
From: zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com (M. D. Krauss)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 12:55:26 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Rox Stallion
Message-ID: <20070623125526.7573e830@tessa.long>

Hi all,

I recently noticed rox-app-stallion in the Debian/Rox repository at:

deb ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/rox4debian binary/

It is apparently a Gecko-based browser designed to integrate with the
Rox desktop.  I wanted to see what it was like, so I apt-get installed
it, but it won't run.

So, okay, I just wanted to get an idea about it, so I went to the web
to find some screen-shots or such.  I can't find any evidence, even on
Google Groups, that there is any such program in existence.  I even
checked some open-source development pages (such as Sourceforge) for the
project - nada.

Does anyone know anything about this?

Thanks,
Matthew



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sat Jun 23 19:57:33 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 19:57:33 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Charter Communications clueless tech support
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706231657t7a0751bbwa400850969305581@mail.gmail.com>

I contacted Charter's Internet customer service through their online
chat to find out the upstream speed of their 10Mbps package.  The chat
window has a very short scrollback buffer but I saved the important
part:

Jomar:   Do you mean to say that you are having a slow speed?

Jomar:   Is that what you mean?

Jeff Hanson:   I am considering upgrading to 10Mbps package from 5Mbps
package. The 5Mbps package has 512Kbps upstream speed. What is 10Mbps
upstream bandwidth?

Jomar:   One gigabyte upstream bandwith for ten meg internet package.

Jomar:   One gigabyte upstream bandwidth for ten meg internet package.

Jomar:   Is there anything else I can help you with today?

https://www.charter.com/order/OfferDetail.aspx?OfferID=25800&ProductItem=

It seemed too good to be true so I used their contact form to clarify:
----------------
Via the live chat, I asked one of your agents, Jomar, about the
upstream bandwidth of the 10Mbps package.  Jomar replied that it was
8Gbps.  I was going to reply but the session timed out while I was
momentarily incapacitated due to laughter.  Could an agent with
technical expertise answer this question?

PS.  I would like to offer my training services to Charter Internet
support personnel at a rate of $50USD/hour/individual.  A few hours of
basic Internet technology review would greatly increase the
effectiveness of your support staff.  If you are interested please
contact me at the above address.
----------------
I got a reply later that it was 1Mbps up.  With the no-TV bonus charge
it's $79.99/mo.


From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Sat Jun 23 20:02:11 2007
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 20:02:11 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Charter Communications clueless tech support
References: <b02c40e90706231657t7a0751bbwa400850969305581@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <02b301c7b5f2$e9f1cec0$6401a8c0@AMD2000>

Sounds like he got his bits and bytes mixed up.  :-)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeff Hanson" <jhansonxi at gmail.com>
To: "MDLUG's Main discussion list" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2007 7:57 PM
Subject: [mdlug] Charter Communications clueless tech support


>I contacted Charter's Internet customer service through their online
> chat to find out the upstream speed of their 10Mbps package.  The chat
> window has a very short scrollback buffer but I saved the important
> part:
>
> Jomar:   Do you mean to say that you are having a slow speed?
>
> Jomar:   Is that what you mean?
>
> Jeff Hanson:   I am considering upgrading to 10Mbps package from 5Mbps
> package. The 5Mbps package has 512Kbps upstream speed. What is 10Mbps
> upstream bandwidth?
>
> Jomar:   One gigabyte upstream bandwith for ten meg internet package.
>
> Jomar:   One gigabyte upstream bandwidth for ten meg internet package.
>
> Jomar:   Is there anything else I can help you with today?
>
> https://www.charter.com/order/OfferDetail.aspx?OfferID=25800&ProductItem=
>
> It seemed too good to be true so I used their contact form to clarify:
> ----------------
> Via the live chat, I asked one of your agents, Jomar, about the
> upstream bandwidth of the 10Mbps package.  Jomar replied that it was
> 8Gbps.  I was going to reply but the session timed out while I was
> momentarily incapacitated due to laughter.  Could an agent with
> technical expertise answer this question?
>
> PS.  I would like to offer my training services to Charter Internet
> support personnel at a rate of $50USD/hour/individual.  A few hours of
> basic Internet technology review would greatly increase the
> effectiveness of your support staff.  If you are interested please
> contact me at the above address.
> ----------------
> I got a reply later that it was 1Mbps up.  With the no-TV bonus charge
> it's $79.99/mo.
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.9.4/860 - Release Date: 6/21/2007 
> 5:53 PM
>
> 



From zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com  Sun Jun 24 00:59:14 2007
From: zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com (M. D. Krauss)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 00:59:14 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Charter Communications clueless tech support
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90706231657t7a0751bbwa400850969305581@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e90706231657t7a0751bbwa400850969305581@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070624005914.0715c42b@tessa.long>

On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 19:57:33 -0400
"Jeff Hanson" <jhansonxi at gmail.com> wrote:

/snip bizarre tech-support story

> PS.  I would like to offer my training services to Charter Internet
> support personnel at a rate of $50USD/hour/individual.  A few hours of
> basic Internet technology review would greatly increase the
> effectiveness of your support staff.  If you are interested please
> contact me at the above address.
> ----------------
> I got a reply later that it was 1Mbps up.  With the no-TV bonus charge
> it's $79.99/mo.

Yes, but did they take you up on your offer?


From freemancomputer at yahoo.com  Sun Jun 24 01:20:05 2007
From: freemancomputer at yahoo.com (jack freeman)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 22:20:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Charter Communications clueless tech support
Message-ID: <810768.52268.qm@web55511.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

I been dealing with linksys tech support over the last few months about my router dropping connections. Each time I have to enplane what telnet and ports are. Then I have to tell them why its not a port forwarding problem. Then they like to disconnect me. It as amusing at first now its just getting annoying.

----- Original Message ----
From: Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2007 6:57:33 PM
Subject: [mdlug] Charter Communications clueless tech support

I contacted Charter's Internet customer service through their online
chat to find out the upstream speed of their 10Mbps package.  The chat
window has a very short scrollback buffer but I saved the important
part:

Jomar:   Do you mean to say that you are having a slow speed?

Jomar:   Is that what you mean?

Jeff Hanson:   I am considering upgrading to 10Mbps package from 5Mbps
package. The 5Mbps package has 512Kbps upstream speed. What is 10Mbps
upstream bandwidth?

Jomar:   One gigabyte upstream bandwith for ten meg internet package.

Jomar:   One gigabyte upstream bandwidth for ten meg internet package.

Jomar:   Is there anything else I can help you with today?

https://www.charter.com/order/OfferDetail.aspx?OfferID=25800&ProductItem=

It seemed too good to be true so I used their contact form to clarify:
----------------
Via the live chat, I asked one of your agents, Jomar, about the
upstream bandwidth of the 10Mbps package.  Jomar replied that it was
8Gbps.  I was going to reply but the session timed out while I was
momentarily incapacitated due to laughter.  Could an agent with
technical expertise answer this question?

PS.  I would like to offer my training services to Charter Internet
support personnel at a rate of $50USD/hour/individual.  A few hours of
basic Internet technology review would greatly increase the
effectiveness of your support staff.  If you are interested please
contact me at the above address.
----------------
I got a reply later that it was 1Mbps up.  With the no-TV bonus charge
it's $79.99/mo.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug







      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Shape Yahoo! in your own image.  Join our Network Research Panel today!   http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070623/fc51d5ad/attachment-0001.html>

From zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com  Sun Jun 24 03:03:40 2007
From: zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com (M. D. Krauss)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 03:03:40 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Charter Communications clueless tech support
In-Reply-To: <810768.52268.qm@web55511.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <810768.52268.qm@web55511.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20070624030340.1c54abe4@tessa.long>

On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 22:20:05 -0700 (PDT)
jack freeman <freemancomputer at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I been dealing with linksys tech support over the last few months
> about my router dropping connections. Each time I have to enplane
> what telnet and ports are. Then I have to tell them why its not a
> port forwarding problem. Then they like to disconnect me. It as
> amusing at first now its just getting annoying.

Ugh.

Have you tried updating the firmware?  Or failing that, a
factory-reset?

Good luck,
Matthew


From freemancomputer at yahoo.com  Sun Jun 24 03:30:38 2007
From: freemancomputer at yahoo.com (jack freeman)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 00:30:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Charter Communications clueless tech support
Message-ID: <580748.89154.qm@web55511.mail.re4.yahoo.com>



----- Original Message ----
From: M. D. Krauss <zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com>
To: mdlug at mdlug.org
Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 2:03:40 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Charter Communications clueless tech support

On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 22:20:05 -0700 (PDT)
jack freeman <freemancomputer at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I been dealing with linksys tech support over the last few months
> about my router dropping connections. Each time I have to enplane
> what telnet and ports are. Then I have to tell them why its not a
> port forwarding problem. Then they like to disconnect me. It as
> amusing at first now its just getting annoying.

Ugh.

Have you tried updating the firmware?  Or failing that, a
factory-reset?

Good luck,
Matthew



Those were the first things that i did, there finely getting around to sending me a new one. Just annoys me that even when you ask for there supervisor that person knows even less. 
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug







       
____________________________________________________________________________________Ready for the edge of your seat? 
Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. 
http://tv.yahoo.com/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070624/b7ea0b73/attachment-0001.html>

From rjclay at gmail.com  Sun Jun 24 08:34:47 2007
From: rjclay at gmail.com (Robert J. Clay)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 08:34:47 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Rox Stallion
In-Reply-To: <20070623125526.7573e830@tessa.long>
References: <20070623125526.7573e830@tessa.long>
Message-ID: <a379574a0706240534k7c70b3a1xda881bc2a37d6a6f@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/23/07, M. D. Krauss <zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I recently noticed rox-app-stallion in the Debian/Rox repository at:
>
> deb ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/rox4debian binary/
>
> It is apparently a Gecko-based browser designed to integrate with the
> Rox desktop.  I wanted to see what it was like, so I apt-get installed
> it, but it won't run.

     What does that mean, "won't run"?


> So, okay, I just wanted to get an idea about it, so I went to the web
> to find some screen-shots or such.  I can't find any evidence, even on
> Google Groups, that there is any such program in existence.  I even
> checked some open-source development pages (such as Sourceforge) for the
> project - nada.

    What did you search for?  I had no problems finding information
about it;  where I mostly looked was at  rox.sourceforge.net, with
Debian specific information at
http://rox.sourceforge.net/desktop/Debian...


-- 
Robert J. Clay
rjclay at gmail.com


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sun Jun 24 11:22:10 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 11:22:10 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Charter Communications clueless tech support
In-Reply-To: <580748.89154.qm@web55511.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <580748.89154.qm@web55511.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706240822k28a890a6qed7fdc48ecd69497@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/24/07, jack freeman <freemancomputer at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Those were the first things that i did, there finely getting around to
> sending me a new one. Just annoys me that even when you ask for there
> supervisor that person knows even less.

People are not promoted to management because they know anything.

I once had a Motorola cordless phone with an intermittent connection
problem.  I exchanged about a dozen E-mails with their tech support
(in India I think) who insisted that it was interference with an
appliance, even though it was at a farmhouse in a rural area with no
wireless networks around.  I eventually realized that my strategy was
wrong because E-mail communications are cheap for them.  So I called
their tech support department (in the USA) who can't afford to spend a
lot of time on the phone with a customer.  They gave me an RMA without
a hassle.

I also have a Belkin non-wireless router that randomly locks up.
Never did figure that one out.


From eaglecoach at wwnet.com  Sun Jun 24 11:45:27 2007
From: eaglecoach at wwnet.com (Dr. Robert J. Meier)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 11:45:27 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Charter Communications clueless tech support
In-Reply-To: <20070624005914.0715c42b@tessa.long> (zeros0and1ones@yahoo.com)
References: <b02c40e90706231657t7a0751bbwa400850969305581@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070624005914.0715c42b@tessa.long>
Message-ID: <20070624154527.DF4B920AAE2@starfox.local>

M.D.

>> PS.  I would like to offer my training services to Charter Internet
>> support personnel at a rate of $50USD/hour/individual.  A few hours of
>> basic Internet technology review would greatly increase the
>> effectiveness of your support staff.  If you are interested please
>> contact me at the above address.
> Yes, but did they take you up on your offer?

I made this offer several score times, and never yet been taken up on it.



> Sounds like he got his bits and bytes mixed up.  :-)

8G vs 1Mbps: He got his decimal points mixed up!

<HUMOR>
I wonder if they'd notice if you got your dollars and pennies mixed up.
</HUMOR>

--
Dr B


From tesral at comcast.net  Sun Jun 24 14:01:05 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 14:01:05 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Charter Communications clueless tech support
In-Reply-To: <20070624154527.DF4B920AAE2@starfox.local>
References: <b02c40e90706231657t7a0751bbwa400850969305581@mail.gmail.com>	<20070624005914.0715c42b@tessa.long>
	<20070624154527.DF4B920AAE2@starfox.local>
Message-ID: <467EB161.6010603@comcast.net>

Dr. Robert J. Meier wrote:
> I made this offer several score times, and never yet been taken up on it.
>   
That would cost money and might teach the helpless desk that they are
way underpaid..


-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Sun Jun 24 15:44:05 2007
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 15:44:05 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] WinVista vs. Linux security- MS's take
Message-ID: <b67fb0380706241244p30fd182bgeb4e84132ee7d051@mail.gmail.com>

Man, I'm glad I had already set my coffee cup down before reading this
article-- the liquid shooting out my nose would certainly have bathed
the monitor and keyboard: "Microsoft Claims Vista Is More Secure Than
Linux"
<http://www.newsfactor.com/story.xhtml?story_id=53263>

Of course, the old "apples and oranges" applies here-- "Vista" is just
the OS, while "Linux" is the entire distro, all apps included-- and no
mention is made of the relative severity of said vulnerabilites, local
vs. remote exploits, etc.

It's also interesting to note the article's rating, 1.5 out of 5
stars... I think people are (at least) starting to get the message.

Of course, at this point, Microsoft's PR machine is spinning like mad,
as exemplified in this article: "Don't wait for Vista SP1, pleads
Microsoft"
<http://apcmag.com/6458/dont_wait_for_vista_sp1_pleads_microsoft>

Also close to the front of the "Clueless Patrol"  is this gentleman,
whose HuffPost article show that he doesn't get it, either-- but the
commenters seem to:

"Open Source is Not Innovative"
<http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-r-keith-sawyer/open-source-is-not-innova_b_53256.html>

-- Mikey


From zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com  Sun Jun 24 17:04:43 2007
From: zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com (M. D. Krauss)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 17:04:43 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] WinVista vs. Linux security- MS's take
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380706241244p30fd182bgeb4e84132ee7d051@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380706241244p30fd182bgeb4e84132ee7d051@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070624170443.2cac4a2c@tessa.long>

On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 15:44:05 -0400
"Michael Rudas" <audiotech50 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Man, I'm glad I had already set my coffee cup down before reading this
> article-- the liquid shooting out my nose would certainly have bathed
> the monitor and keyboard: "Microsoft Claims Vista Is More Secure Than
> Linux"
> <http://www.newsfactor.com/story.xhtml?story_id=53263>

Summary: Microsoft's public assessment of their own security problems
is rosier then Red Hat's public assessment of their own security
problems; Microsoft also fixes fewer bugs, therefor they must be less
buggy!

Yep, glad you warned us so I put down my own coffee :)


From zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com  Sun Jun 24 17:23:04 2007
From: zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com (M. D. Krauss)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 17:23:04 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Rox Stallion
In-Reply-To: <a379574a0706240534k7c70b3a1xda881bc2a37d6a6f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070623125526.7573e830@tessa.long>
	<a379574a0706240534k7c70b3a1xda881bc2a37d6a6f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070624172304.765aaa60@tessa.long>

On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 08:34:47 -0400
"Robert J. Clay" <rjclay at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 6/23/07, M. D. Krauss <zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I recently noticed rox-app-stallion in the Debian/Rox repository at:
> >
> > deb ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/rox4debian binary/
> >
> > It is apparently a Gecko-based browser designed to integrate with
> > the Rox desktop.  I wanted to see what it was like, so I apt-get
> > installed it, but it won't run.
> 
>      What does that mean, "won't run"?

Well, I didn't go in to details as I was not asking for help getting
it to run, but here is what happened:

ROX software (unfortunately, in my opinion) is distributed through a
system called Zero-Install.  This system automatically installs/updates
programs when you try to run them.

The unofficial Debian repository mentioned above carries a number of
zero-install "launchers" for Rox programs.  When you install one, you
basically get a clickable icon in Rox that will start the Zero-install
"injector" and try to install and run the program for you.

When I clicked on the clickable icon, the injector told me it could not
get the files it needed. The specific error the injector gives is:

Error downloading 'xulrunner':

Error downloading 'http://dist.opendocumentfellowship.org/xulrunner':
HTTP Error 404: Not Found


> > So, okay, I just wanted to get an idea about it, so I went to the
> > web to find some screen-shots or such.  I can't find any evidence,
> > even on Google Groups, that there is any such program in
> > existence.  I even checked some open-source development pages (such
> > as Sourceforge) for the project - nada.
> 
>     What did you search for?  I had no problems finding information
> about it;  where I mostly looked was at  rox.sourceforge.net, with
> Debian specific information at
> http://rox.sourceforge.net/desktop/Debian...

This appears to be information about how to install Rox on Debian.  I
have no problem with this, and have been running Rox on Debian for a
long time.  I use it in conjunction with Window-maker, and highly
recommend the pair.

What I was interested in is getting a look at the specific Rox
application called "Stallion" which is apparently a web browser.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sun Jun 24 18:48:23 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 18:48:23 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] WinVista vs. Linux security- MS's take
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380706241244p30fd182bgeb4e84132ee7d051@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380706241244p30fd182bgeb4e84132ee7d051@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706241548n1e05ee4bj9216977578382434@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/24/07, Michael Rudas <audiotech50 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Man, I'm glad I had already set my coffee cup down before reading this
> article-- the liquid shooting out my nose would certainly have bathed
> the monitor and keyboard: "Microsoft Claims Vista Is More Secure Than
> Linux"
> <http://www.newsfactor.com/story.xhtml?story_id=53263>
>
> Of course, the old "apples and oranges" applies here-- "Vista" is just
> the OS, while "Linux" is the entire distro, all apps included-- and no
> mention is made of the relative severity of said vulnerabilites, local
> vs. remote exploits, etc.

This was posted at Tom's Hardware a few days ago:
www.tgdaily.com/content/view/32596/118/

I'll repeat my response to that posting:
--------------------------
Jun 22, 2007 15:25
Keyword: "disclosed"

Open source will always have more disclosed vulnerabilities because
they've got nothing to hide.

It's like researching sexual behaviors in modern America by publicly
polling conservative politicians and porn stars about their sex life.
--------------------------


From wolfger at gmail.com  Sun Jun 24 20:01:03 2007
From: wolfger at gmail.com (Wolfger)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 20:01:03 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] WinVista vs. Linux security- MS's take
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90706241548n1e05ee4bj9216977578382434@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380706241244p30fd182bgeb4e84132ee7d051@mail.gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90706241548n1e05ee4bj9216977578382434@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3b00b3330706241701s78402dafqc10a81602760a72a@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/24/07, Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com> wrote:

> Open source will always have more disclosed vulnerabilities because
> they've got nothing to hide.
>
> It's like researching sexual behaviors in modern America by publicly
> polling conservative politicians and porn stars about their sex life.

Yeah, pretty much... Ask porn stars if they have deviant sexual
behavior, and ask politicians/clergy if they have sexual deviant
behavior, and then wait to see which group is caught first with an
underage boy...

-- 
Wolfger
http://wolfger.wordpress.com/
http://1fjordaroad.wordpress.com/
AOL IM: wolf4coyot
Yahoo!Messenger: wolfgersilberbaer
Skype: wolfger88


From as4109 at wayne.edu  Sun Jun 24 21:16:10 2007
From: as4109 at wayne.edu (David Lee Lambert)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 21:16:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Networking
Message-ID: <20070624211610.EBU60299@mirapointms6.wayne.edu>

--- Original message ----
>Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:03:02 -0400
>From: Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net>  
>
>I have a Linux box and an XP box on a peer to peer network.  I want the
>two to talk as seamlessly as possible.

You have several choices:

1.  Install Samba on Linux;  enable the [homes] and [printers] shares,  and set up shares for anything else;  use smbfs to mount shares in the other direction,  or just use smbclient to copy files.

2.  Install Services for Unix on Windows,  and enable the NFS client and server and the LPD client and server.

3.  Install the NCP toolchain (ncpfs,  I'm not sure what else) on Linux,  and install "Client for NetWare" and "Server for NetWare" on Windows.  This is probably harder than the first two alternatives;  I've never done it.

4.  Install Cygwin sshd and ssh on Windows.  You can use scp to copy files.  This might be all you need to do,  or you might want to do this anyway.

5.  To view the Windows desktop remotely from Linux,  use the "tsclient" program or install a VNC server on Windows and use "vncviewer".  

    To run graphical programs across the network from Windows,  install the Cygwin X server,  or start a new VNC desktop with "vncserver" and access it with a Windows VNC client.
 




From zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com  Sun Jun 24 21:49:53 2007
From: zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com (M. D. Krauss)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 21:49:53 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Networking
In-Reply-To: <20070624211610.EBU60299@mirapointms6.wayne.edu>
References: <20070624211610.EBU60299@mirapointms6.wayne.edu>
Message-ID: <20070624214953.60a6fd54@tessa.long>

On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 21:16:10 -0400 (EDT)
David Lee Lambert <as4109 at wayne.edu> wrote:

> --- Original message ----
> >Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:03:02 -0400
> >From: Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net>  
> >
> >I have a Linux box and an XP box on a peer to peer network.  I want
> >the two to talk as seamlessly as possible.
> 
> You have several choices:
> 
> 1.  Install Samba on Linux;  enable the [homes] and [printers]
> shares,  and set up shares for anything else;  use smbfs to mount
> shares in the other direction,  or just use smbclient to copy files.

I have had better experience lately with cifs then smbfs.  smbfs was
always a wrestling match to get it to work correctly and then would
drop the connection leaving you with a hung mount.  The newer mount.cifs
is a breeze to set up and seems more reliable as well.


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Mon Jun 25 13:47:20 2007
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 13:47:20 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Virtualization in WinVista
Message-ID: <b67fb0380706251047k6562fb4fh66b17aaa8cf340f7@mail.gmail.com>

I'm sure that there are some of us who would like to legally host
WinVista under Linux.  It almost happened for Home users, but...

There's a good reason why Microsoft flip-flopped on virtualization in
WinVista Home: It turns out that the DRM features in WinVista are
easily blown away like smoke on a summer breeze when WinVista is
virtualized. See http://preview.tinyurl.com/yrjfvd (Computerworld
article). I don't see how MS can fix this, nor why they didn't realize
it BEFORE the egg blew up in their faces.

In acceding to the likes of Sony and Viacom, Microsoft thought they
could be the masters of Hollywood, but it's the customers that are
getting bent over...

-- Mikey


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Jun 25 15:09:31 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 15:09:31 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Virtualization in WinVista
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380706251047k6562fb4fh66b17aaa8cf340f7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380706251047k6562fb4fh66b17aaa8cf340f7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706251209m1bc0ced1wfa6899db08b5a1d9@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/25/07, Michael Rudas <audiotech50 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm sure that there are some of us who would like to legally host
> WinVista under Linux.  It almost happened for Home users, but...
>
> There's a good reason why Microsoft flip-flopped on virtualization in
> WinVista Home: It turns out that the DRM features in WinVista are
> easily blown away like smoke on a summer breeze when WinVista is
> virtualized. See http://preview.tinyurl.com/yrjfvd (Computerworld
> article). I don't see how MS can fix this, nor why they didn't realize
> it BEFORE the egg blew up in their faces.

I suspected that the DRM would be ineffective when sharing VMs except
for Microsoft's VirtualPC which could enforce it on the guest OS.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Jun 25 15:12:43 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 15:12:43 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Channel vendors skeptical about Vista sales figures
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706251212h66cb915cpda5ec3ff21e8a686@mail.gmail.com>

channel.tomshardware.com/2007/06/25/channel_skeptical_about_vista_claims/

You'd think that 40-million units sold would represent a runaway hit.
But while Microsoft is calling Vista a huge win, some folks in the
channel are not completely sold on that assessment.

"Microsoft's launch of Vista has been as successful as the U.S.
finding WMDs in Iraq," Herb Criscito, vice president for Buy.com,
said. "We are finding little to no demand for the new operating
system. Lack of support, drivers and compatibility issues have been
major roadblocks deterring customers to upgrade."

Yet, Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates recently said 40 million units were
sold in the first 100 days of the operating system's release (while
almost 75% of the licenses were for the Premium edition) and that the
Vista adoption rate has been twice as fast as the adoption of Windows
XP.

But so far, the channel is pausing to think about the "non-OEM"
recommendation options for Vista. According to resellers polled, the
overwhelming response from almost every customer segment is to wait.
Clients by and large are still ordering machines with XP, or if they
get them with Vista, are rebuilding an image with XP and rolling it
out from there.


From bobdion at starline-ent.com  Mon Jun 25 18:16:06 2007
From: bobdion at starline-ent.com (Bob Dion)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 18:16:06 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] The Case Against OOXML
Message-ID: <46803EA6.3080609@starline-ent.com>

This is an LT link, the article is a PDF file.

http://www.linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/2007062501926OSMSSW

BD


From jvartanian at gmail.com  Mon Jun 25 18:45:36 2007
From: jvartanian at gmail.com (Joseph Vartanian)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 18:45:36 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
Message-ID: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>

I'm sure at more than a few of you on this list are DIY geeks, so this
is for you.  What tools would you want in your toolbox?  Types of
tools, specific products, specific brand names...whatever.  What tools
do you think are important in a good DIY geek toolbox?

I'm really asking because I want to see if I can get any good ideas
from you for my own toolbox that I'm building (I'm feed up with my
lousy tools), but I also figure others would find it useful.  If you
know of a good place to get these tools, online or brick and mortar,
that would be cool too.

I know you may be thinking this all depends on exactly what type of
projects you're working on.  Since I'm not really interested in just
one specific thing, lets assume that you're going to be working on a
little bit of everything.

I'll start out with a really easy one myself...a Dremel 400 Series
rotary tool.  I'll leave the more difficult ones up to you guys.

-Joseph


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Jun 25 19:32:05 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 19:32:05 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706251632q50e0ccc7r68560d73487540b@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/25/07, Joseph Vartanian <jvartanian at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm sure at more than a few of you on this list are DIY geeks, so this
> is for you.  What tools would you want in your toolbox?  Types of
> tools, specific products, specific brand names...whatever.  What tools
> do you think are important in a good DIY geek toolbox?

Cheap multimeter:
www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0207743

Pillbox with lots of different PC fasteners, wire ties, standoffs.

RJ11/RJ45 crimper

Coax stripper and hex F-connector crimper.

Pocket microscope

LED flashlight

Cheap tool kit and some multi-screwdrivers

Utility and hobby knives

Dental or swivel mirror

Extending magnet

Knoppix or Damn Small Linux

USB Flash key

The Worst-Case Scenario Survival Handbook


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Jun 25 19:33:28 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 19:33:28 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90706251632q50e0ccc7r68560d73487540b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90706251632q50e0ccc7r68560d73487540b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706251633h624d8eb8oce3d0f3e793c42e9@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/25/07, Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com> wrote:

Forgot duct tape and Goop adhesive.


From jvartanian at gmail.com  Mon Jun 25 20:08:33 2007
From: jvartanian at gmail.com (Joseph Vartanian)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 20:08:33 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90706251632q50e0ccc7r68560d73487540b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90706251632q50e0ccc7r68560d73487540b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dd889b430706251708q67d56a0bx19bdeb9ebe8edae1@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/25/07, Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 6/25/07, Joseph Vartanian <jvartanian at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I'm sure at more than a few of you on this list are DIY geeks, so this
> > is for you.  What tools would you want in your toolbox?  Types of
> > tools, specific products, specific brand names...whatever.  What tools
> > do you think are important in a good DIY geek toolbox?
>
> Cheap multimeter:
> www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0207743
>
> Pillbox with lots of different PC fasteners, wire ties, standoffs.
>
> RJ11/RJ45 crimper
>
> Coax stripper and hex F-connector crimper.
>
> Pocket microscope
>
> LED flashlight
>
> Cheap tool kit and some multi-screwdrivers
>
> Utility and hobby knives
>
> Dental or swivel mirror
>
> Extending magnet
>
> Knoppix or Damn Small Linux
>
> USB Flash key
>
> The Worst-Case Scenario Survival Handbook
>

OK, you completely threw me off with the survival handbook.  But the
pocket microscope...I would have never thought of it.  I can
definitely see how it can be useful, or at least fun.  That goes on my
shopping list.

-Joseph


From zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 25 20:32:05 2007
From: zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com (M. D. Krauss)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 20:32:05 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070625203205.7975b732@tessa.long>

On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 18:45:36 -0400
"Joseph Vartanian" <jvartanian at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm sure at more than a few of you on this list are DIY geeks, so this
> is for you.  What tools would you want in your toolbox?  Types of
> tools, specific products, specific brand names...whatever.  What tools
> do you think are important in a good DIY geek toolbox?

Bash, the standard GNU tools, and Zenity can do wonders.

/snip a bunch of stuff
 
> I'll start out with a really easy one myself...a Dremel 400 Series
> rotary tool.  I'll leave the more difficult ones up to you guys.

Ohhhh... You meant like for fixing up and building stuff around the
house or such?

Well, I'm not a very experienced DIY-er, but trying to learn.  Aside
from all the obvious standard things, one thing I find indispensable is
my Leatherman Wave multi-tool. With that, I often don't even need to get
out the toolbox. Another real nice thing I have is a T-shaped ratcheting
screwdriver. (The handle is the horizontal of a capital T; this allows
you to twist while keeping your wrist straight. The interchangeable
bits are held in hexagonal holes through the handle.)

Matthew


From tesral at comcast.net  Mon Jun 25 21:44:22 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 21:44:22 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46806F76.4040709@comcast.net>

Joseph Vartanian wrote:
> I'm sure at more than a few of you on this list are DIY geeks, so this
> is for you.  What tools would you want in your toolbox?  Types of
> tools, specific products, specific brand names...whatever.  What tools
> do you think are important in a good DIY geek toolbox?
>
> I'm really asking because I want to see if I can get any good ideas
> from you for my own toolbox that I'm building (I'm feed up with my
> lousy tools), but I also figure others would find it useful.  If you
> know of a good place to get these tools, online or brick and mortar,
> that would be cool too.
>
> I know you may be thinking this all depends on exactly what type of
> projects you're working on.  Since I'm not really interested in just
> one specific thing, lets assume that you're going to be working on a
> little bit of everything.
>
> I'll start out with a really easy one myself...a Dremel 400 Series
> rotary tool.  I'll leave the more difficult ones up to you guys.
>   

Money spent on good tools is never wasted.  --The Tao of Phoenix.

Brand.  It is difficult to go wrong with Craftsman hand tools.  I prefer
them in my tool box.  Stanly is also good.
A good general tool box should have.

Hammers, claw and ball peen of about 12 oz minimum.  Additional hammers
that are useful are a small sledge, a rubber mallet.  A dead blow hammer.

Screwdrivers.  No geek can live without them.  While you can buy manual
screwdrivers of every kind I prefer a single grip with interchangeable
tips.  It saves a lot of space in the toolbox.  My set of driver tips
take a hell of a lot less space than it would with a handle for each as
well.  You cannot go wrong if you have one power tool and that is a
power screw driver.

Pliers.  For geek work you cannot go wrong with a good set of micro
pliers.  They will include wire cutters, end cutters, long needle nose,
flat jaw and a curved jaw at larger versions of the small pliers, and
vice grips are never a bad thing to have.  I would call at least one
pair of vice grips basic.  Full sized pliers would be the classic slip
joint and channel locks.  If you are buying Craftsman a set of the
robogrip pliers replace any slip jaw set.

Wrenches.  At minimum a crescent wrench.  I do not like adjustable
wrenches.  I prefer combination wrenches in the exact size I need.  I
have many wrenches.  Sockets are also a good to have.  At least a set of
1/4 drive sockets.  Also available now are ratchet wrenches that combine
the function of the socket and wrench.  I would look into those.

Saws.  A hack saw and a good backsaw are geek minimums.  Saws, like
hammers, come in more flavors than ice cream.  Everyone has their favorites.

Geek Specials.  That would be wire strippers, soldering tools, cable
making tools.  Each as you need it.  My box has a basic circuit tester,
a soldering iron, cable crimper and strippers.  An Ethernet cable
tester. a computer PS tester.

Things you thought you would never need.  Wood chisels. cold chisels 
Putty knives, clamps (you cannot have too many clamps) wonder bar,
cordless drill, combination square and a quick square, level, more as I
think of it.

I prefer the Stylus Dremel tool myself.  Nice tool all around,

And, I am barely touching on power tools.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From driveray at ameritech.net  Mon Jun 25 22:18:53 2007
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 22:18:53 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] President's mail bag
Message-ID: <4680778D.50805@ameritech.net>

MDLUG:
Passed along with out comment.

Joseph,

Thank you for contacting me. I will pass you message on to our group's
membership.

Raymond McLaughlin
President MDLUG

Joseph C. Penkala wrote:
> > Raymond,
> >
> > My name is Joe Penkala and I am currently working on an opportunity on
> > behalf of a client here in metropolitan Detroit. They are looking for a
> > computer programmer and when I came across your user group, I thought I
> > would see if you would be able to assist me.
> >
> > The main technical skill sets required for this position include, but
> > are not limited to:
> >
> >
> >
> > - Programming in PHP
> >
> > - MySQL
> >
> > - Basic Linux skills
> >
> > - Apache Web Server - Skills 1-4 are related, used together, and make up
> > the acronym L.A.M.P. (Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP)
> >
> > - Basic understanding of XML
> >
> > - HTML
> >
> > - SQL Server
> >
> > - Basic.Net programming
> >
> > - Web Development skills
> >
> > - Computer Networking skills
> >
> >
> >
> > Any help you could give me would be great appreciated. Feel free to
> > contact me via phone or email.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *Joseph  C. Penkala*
> >
> > Account Executive
> >
> > Penkala & Associates
> >
> > (Formerly MANAGEMENT RECRUITERS OF STERLING HEIGHTS)
> >
> > 4333 Metropolitan Parkway, Suite B
> >
> > Sterling Heights, MI 48310
> >
> > O - 586.795.4100
> >
> > F  - 586.795.4101
> >
> > joe.penkala at mristerling.com
> >
> > www.mristerling.com <http://www.mristerling.com/>
> >
> >
> >
> > *MRI*Network
> >
> > EXPERTS IN GLOBAL SEARCH
> >




From rrcb21 at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 25 22:30:40 2007
From: rrcb21 at yahoo.com (Ron Blanchett)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 19:30:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] MonroeLUG June Meeting Announcement
Message-ID: <736504.2680.qm@web82313.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


=====MonroeLUG June Meeting Announcement=====

Topic: Sed, Grep, Awk, & RegEx
Date & Time: Tuesday June 26, 2007 6:00PM - 9:00PM
Place: Monroe County Community College La-Z-Boy Center Room Z-271 http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=1555+S.Raisinville+Rd.+monroe+mi+48161

This months meeting is a rescheduling of last months meeting after a mix up of the date.

Dan DeSloover has graciously volunteered to give the presentation this month.
He plans to present on Sed, Grep, RegEx, & possibly Awk three of the most powerful
command line tools available to every version of Linux and just about every
version of Unix. He will also cover how RegEx can be used with these three
tools to make them that much more powerful.


If anyone would like to volunteer to give a presentation at an upcoming meeting
please contact me ASAP.


Keep in mind that from month to month our meeting room may change so always
make sure to look at the announcement for what room we are going to be in. I have
been assured that all of the rooms have projectors, and a wireless network is available.

I look forward to seeing everyone at the meeting on Tuesday, for the mean time have a
save and happy week.

-Ron
MonroeLUG President







From set at pobox.com  Mon Jun 25 22:49:47 2007
From: set at pobox.com (Paul)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 22:49:47 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070626024947.GD5759@squish.home.loc>

Joseph Vartanian <jvartanian at gmail.com>, on Mon Jun 25, 2007 [06:45:36 PM] said:
> I'm sure at more than a few of you on this list are DIY geeks, so this
> is for you.  What tools would you want in your toolbox?  Types of
> tools, specific products, specific brand names...whatever.  What tools
> do you think are important in a good DIY geek toolbox?
> 
> I'm really asking because I want to see if I can get any good ideas
> from you for my own toolbox that I'm building (I'm feed up with my
> lousy tools), but I also figure others would find it useful.  If you
> know of a good place to get these tools, online or brick and mortar,
> that would be cool too.
> 
> I know you may be thinking this all depends on exactly what type of
> projects you're working on.  Since I'm not really interested in just
> one specific thing, lets assume that you're going to be working on a
> little bit of everything.
> 
> I'll start out with a really easy one myself...a Dremel 400 Series
> rotary tool.  I'll leave the more difficult ones up to you guys.
> 
> -Joseph

	Hi;

	Ill just lend you this generic advice. Dont buy cheap tools.
Cheap tools tend to be clunkier, less precise, prone to premature failure
and dulling. Cheap tools can make a difficult job impossible, and they
will fail when you need them most, or result in sloppy work, or collateral
dammage (either to you, or what you are working on).
	Good quality tools will last longer, and give better performance
thoughout their life. I havent always followed this maxim (and come
to regret it in more than one instance), but I have never regretted
aquiring a good quality tool.

Paul
set at pobox.com


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Mon Jun 25 23:43:36 2007
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 23:43:36 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1182829416.24896.49.camel@plumber.site>

On Mon, 2007-06-25 at 18:45 -0400, Joseph Vartanian wrote:
> I'm sure at more than a few of you on this list are DIY geeks, so this
> is for you.  What tools would you want in your toolbox?  Types of
> tools, specific products, specific brand names...whatever.  What tools
> do you think are important in a good DIY geek toolbox?
> 
> I'm really asking because I want to see if I can get any good ideas
> from you for my own toolbox that I'm building (I'm feed up with my
> lousy tools), but I also figure others would find it useful.  If you
> know of a good place to get these tools, online or brick and mortar,
> that would be cool too.
> 
> I know you may be thinking this all depends on exactly what type of
> projects you're working on.  Since I'm not really interested in just
> one specific thing, lets assume that you're going to be working on a
> little bit of everything.
> 
> I'll start out with a really easy one myself...a Dremel 400 Series
> rotary tool.  I'll leave the more difficult ones up to you guys.

	I don't know about the geek part, but I'll throw in my $0.02 for the
tools. I'll second the vote for Craftsman hand tools. I have quite a few
in my bucket. I do add to that with hand tools from Klein, Crescent,
Channelock, Rigid. Most of these can be had at Sears and Grainger. Some
can only be had at wholesalers. I must second the vote for good quality
tools, power and hand. Others have gone into detail on what hand tools,
I'll second that. For power tools I prefer Porter Cable, Hilti, Bosch,
Rigid, Reed, etc. It depends on what, for example I would never buy a
Rigid drill but I wouldn't buy threaders from anyone else. For hammer
drills Hilti is tops but I wouldn't even consider buying cordless tools
from them. I get these from Marsh Power Tools, Hilti, Fasteners, Brock
Tool to name a few.
	I hope this helps.

Best Regards,
	
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From micorral at comcast.net  Tue Jun 26 01:12:39 2007
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 01:12:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.0.99.0706260108440.2274@banana.sluggo.net>

2007-06-25, Monsieur Joseph Vartanian a ecrit:
> What tools do you think are important in a good DIY geek toolbox?

A DIY geek tool? I believe this is the very definition of that:
http://www.fleshlight.com/main/index.php

Michael


From god_of_lemmings at usol.com  Tue Jun 26 06:45:43 2007
From: god_of_lemmings at usol.com (God of Lemmings)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 06:45:43 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Fwd:  OT: DIY Geek Tools
Message-ID: <7b32e6d597b7b13cd0d643ac8f06a139@usol.com>



Begin forwarded message:

> From: Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net>
> Date: June 25, 2007 9:44:22 PM EST
> To: "MDLUG's Main discussion list" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
> Reply-To: "MDLUG's Main discussion list" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>
> Joseph Vartanian wrote:+
>> I'm sure at more than a few of you on this list are DIY geeks, so this
>> is for you.  What tools would you want in your toolbox?  Types of
>> tools, specific products, specific brand names...whatever.  What tools
>> do you think are important in a good DIY geek toolbox?
>>
>> I'm really asking because I want to see if I can get any good ideas
>> from you for my own toolbox that I'm building (I'm feed up with my
>> lousy tools), but I also figure others would find it useful.  If you
>> know of a good place to get these tools, online or brick and mortar,
>> that would be cool too.
>>
>> I know you may be thinking this all depends on exactly what type of
>> projects you're working on.  Since I'm not really interested in just
>> one specific thing, lets assume that you're going to be working on a
>> little bit of everything.
>>
>> I'll start out with a really easy one myself...a Dremel 400 Series
>> rotary tool.  I'll leave the more difficult ones up to you guys.
>>
>
> Money spent on good tools is never wasted.  --The Tao of Phoenix.
>
> Brand.  It is difficult to go wrong with Craftsman hand tools.  I 
> prefer
> them in my tool box.  Stanly is also good.

In general this boils down to - buy any tool with lifetime coverage. If 
it doesn't say lifetime on the
tool itself. Don't bother unless you're particular enough to save the 
receipt and packaging for years.

> A good general tool box should have.
>
> Hammers, claw and ball peen of about 12 oz minimum.  Additional hammers
> that are useful are a small sledge, a rubber mallet.  A dead blow 
> hammer.

I would recommend a large craftsman framing hammer as well.
>
> Screwdrivers.  No geek can live without them.  While you can buy manual
> screwdrivers of every kind I prefer a single grip with interchangeable
> tips.  It saves a lot of space in the toolbox.  My set of driver tips
> take a hell of a lot less space than it would with a handle for each as
> well.  You cannot go wrong if you have one power tool and that is a
> power screw driver.

You should get not only a set of screwdrivers and driver tips for 
whatever you will drive them with,
you will also want to make certain that your collection includes extra 
long screwdrivers of various
sizes; as exchangeable tips can't deal with everything.  Don't forget a 
precision screwdriver set
for smaller things as well.

You will also want a set of torx drivers/bits, from normal down to 
precision. This will cover the odd
laptop and printer case.

>
> Pliers.  For geek work you cannot go wrong with a good set of micro
> pliers.  They will include wire cutters, end cutters, long needle nose,
> flat jaw and a curved jaw at larger versions of the small pliers, and
> vice grips are never a bad thing to have.  I would call at least one
> pair of vice grips basic.  Full sized pliers would be the classic slip
> joint and channel locks.  If you are buying Craftsman a set of the
> robogrip pliers replace any slip jaw set.

>
> Wrenches.  At minimum a crescent wrench.  I do not like adjustable
> wrenches.  I prefer combination wrenches in the exact size I need.  I
> have many wrenches.  Sockets are also a good to have.  At least a set 
> of
> 1/4 drive sockets.  Also available now are ratchet wrenches that 
> combine
> the function of the socket and wrench.  I would look into those.

In the very least, if you intend to do any work on your own car, you 
will want to get both
1/4 and 3/8 sockets, and a set of open end/box end wrenches. About 
80-100 pieces should do.
Do remember to get lifetime tools for this in particular, because these 
will almost definitely
become damaged over time. In most cases, a crescent wrench just wont do.

an RJ11-RJ45 crimper is a must, also, a box of plugs and a roll of 
cable.

oh, and a good sized battery operated power drill.


>
> Saws.  A hack saw and a good backsaw are geek minimums.  Saws, like
> hammers, come in more flavors than ice cream.  Everyone has their 
> favorites.
>
> Geek Specials.  That would be wire strippers, soldering tools, cable
> making tools.  Each as you need it.  My box has a basic circuit tester,
> a soldering iron, cable crimper and strippers.  An Ethernet cable
> tester. a computer PS tester.
>
> Things you thought you would never need.  Wood chisels. cold chisels
> Putty knives, clamps (you cannot have too many clamps) wonder bar,
> cordless drill, combination square and a quick square, level, more as I
> think of it.
>
> I prefer the Stylus Dremel tool myself.  Nice tool all around,
>
> And, I am barely touching on power tools.
>
> -- 
> Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.
>
> Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
> Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
> The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 5796 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070626/8a6d497b/attachment-0001.bin>

From radkins at impelind.com  Tue Jun 26 08:21:32 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 08:21:32 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <20070626024947.GD5759@squish.home.loc>
References: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070626024947.GD5759@squish.home.loc>
Message-ID: <468104CC.70108@impelind.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070626/6ac8ee00/attachment-0001.html>

From tmorris at ugs.com  Tue Jun 26 08:33:04 2007
From: tmorris at ugs.com (Morris, Tim)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 07:33:04 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <468104CC.70108@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E203124346@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>

C'Mon people! I thought this was a DIY GEEK toolkit??? Why has nobody
mention the most important DIY GEEK tool of them all? 
 
THE DREMEL !!!!
 
You never know when you might have to turn that old SGI O2 case into a
mini-PC!!
 
--  Tim Morris - UGS PLM Software
 

________________________________

From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Robert Adkins
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 8:22 AM
To: Paul; mdlug at mdlug.org
Subject: Re: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools


Paul said the following on 6/25/2007 10:49 PM: 

	Joseph Vartanian <jvartanian at gmail.com>
<mailto:jvartanian at gmail.com> , on Mon Jun 25, 2007 [06:45:36 PM] said:
	  

		I'm sure at more than a few of you on this list are DIY
geeks, so this
		is for you.  What tools would you want in your toolbox?
Types of
		tools, specific products, specific brand
names...whatever.  What tools
		do you think are important in a good DIY geek toolbox?
		
		I'm really asking because I want to see if I can get any
good ideas
		from you for my own toolbox that I'm building (I'm feed
up with my
		lousy tools), but I also figure others would find it
useful.  If you
		know of a good place to get these tools, online or brick
and mortar,
		that would be cool too.
		
		I know you may be thinking this all depends on exactly
what type of
		projects you're working on.  Since I'm not really
interested in just
		one specific thing, lets assume that you're going to be
working on a
		little bit of everything.
		
		I'll start out with a really easy one myself...a Dremel
400 Series
		rotary tool.  I'll leave the more difficult ones up to
you guys.
		
		-Joseph
		    

	
		Hi;
	
		Ill just lend you this generic advice. Dont buy cheap
tools.
	Cheap tools tend to be clunkier, less precise, prone to
premature failure
	and dulling. Cheap tools can make a difficult job impossible,
and they
	will fail when you need them most, or result in sloppy work, or
collateral
	dammage (either to you, or what you are working on).
		Good quality tools will last longer, and give better
performance
	thoughout their life. I havent always followed this maxim (and
come
	to regret it in more than one instance), but I have never
regretted
	aquiring a good quality tool.
	
	Paul
	set at pobox.com
	_______________________________________________
	
	  

    Yep, don't buy cheap tools.

    Get a Reciprocating Saw, also known as a "Saws All". (Because it
really saws all things.) This helped me tear out the old Galvanized
plumbing in no time flat, when I replumbed the house.

    Air Compressor, get a good one, Dewalt and Porter-Cable are two
compressors made in the US, from some domestic and foreign made
components. They aren't cheap and they also tend to have the largest
number of options, which you might not believe you need, until you start
using it. These are awesome with Nailguns.

    Circular Saw.

    Power Drill/Driver, these have "racheting" gears that control how
fast or how much torque is applied to the tool. This is incredibly
useful for fastening things together with minimal stripping of fastener
heads.

    A really good tape measure.

    Safety Glasses and Ear Plugs. Don't start work without them.

    Leather work gloves, very important if working with wood or doing
demolition. Splinters are terrible to deal with.

    Sliding Compound Miter Saw, this is an indispensable piece of
equipment. I have used mine almost as much as my hammer.

    That's all for now.

    -Rob

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070626/d3ea1d2d/attachment-0001.html>

From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Tue Jun 26 10:14:01 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 10:14:01 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706260714o356d22bbi90cede8eef7a43e8@mail.gmail.com>

I think we're getting a little carried away here.  A geek tool kit
should be based on the tools you need most, not what you can fit in a
large utility truck.  I have a small toolkit and a couple of CDs I
carry around for most PC and network fixes.  I also have a 300 piece
Craftsman set with some additions and a large Jensen electronics tools
kit (www.stanleysupplyservices.com/category.aspx?id=348).  I used to
carry this stuff in my car wherever I went but I found that I rarely
used most of it and the weight probably reduced gas mileage.  It was a
lot easier to make up a small kit to keep with me and have other sets
and power tools available for larger jobs.

The Jensen kit was very expensive and had a lifetime warranty.  But
later I found the same tools elsewhere for a lot cheaper and minimal
warranty.  I realized that the added cost of a lifetime warranty was
more than a second set of tools so now I buy the cheapest stuff
available.  If a lifetime warranty tool breaks you still have work
without it until it gets replaced.  If you have 2-3 cheap tool kits
you always have an immediately available backup.

Other specialty tools and vendors I find useful are:
Multi/security bit set.  Example:  www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/2MU81

A variable speed hammer drill with selectable hammering (good for
drilling, driving screws, and putting holes in concrete).  I have a
Makita:  www.makita.com/menu.php?pg=product_cat&tag=con_hammerDrill

Vendors I've used:
www.techni-tool.com
www.circuitspecialists.com
www.grainger.com
www.mcmelectronics.com


From danno at umich.edu  Tue Jun 26 10:56:36 2007
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 10:56:36 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070626145636.GA59059@maniac.deathstar.org>

Nobody's mentioned a leatherman.  Your basic pocket toolbox.

I have a real leatherman brand, which i like, but i would recommend
shopping around.  Gerber definitely has a good line.  

I also/alternately recommend a good swiss army knife.  I like the
victorinox "deluxe tinker" which has scissors and pliers.  Wenger
has an equivalent model with the same tools.  Wenger knives have
slip-joint pliers, which is incredibly cool, but they are noticeably
wider profile than the victorinox pliers so it's hard to use them 
to reach into really tight little spots.  For instance, I couldn't
pull a jumper off a hard disk with the wengers.  

Victorinox has a "cybertool" too which i've not looked at very hard,
but the one i see on the web site looks awfully big for a "pocket" knife.

Also, get a good flashlight.  Maglites are well-made but they were very
slow to the LED party.  I like my arc flashlight arc-ls but it's not
made any more.  candlepower forums is the place to research flashlights.

Thinkgeek has an interesting tool section.  milestek is a good source
for wiring tools & supplies.

Finally, you need one of these:
 http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/tools/8ace/

On Mon, Jun 25, 2007 at 06:45:36PM -0400, Joseph Vartanian wrote:
> I'm sure at more than a few of you on this list are DIY geeks, so this
> is for you.  What tools would you want in your toolbox?  Types of
> tools, specific products, specific brand names...whatever.  What tools
> do you think are important in a good DIY geek toolbox?
> 
> I'm really asking because I want to see if I can get any good ideas
> from you for my own toolbox that I'm building (I'm feed up with my
> lousy tools), but I also figure others would find it useful.  If you
> know of a good place to get these tools, online or brick and mortar,
> that would be cool too.
> 
> I know you may be thinking this all depends on exactly what type of
> projects you're working on.  Since I'm not really interested in just
> one specific thing, lets assume that you're going to be working on a
> little bit of everything.
> 
> I'll start out with a really easy one myself...a Dremel 400 Series
> rotary tool.  I'll leave the more difficult ones up to you guys.
> 
> -Joseph
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From mdlug2 at arb.net  Tue Jun 26 11:07:12 2007
From: mdlug2 at arb.net (Dave Arbogast)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 11:07:12 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <20070626145636.GA59059@maniac.deathstar.org>
References: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070626145636.GA59059@maniac.deathstar.org>
Message-ID: <46812BA0.4000407@arb.net>

I used to have a leatherman in my computer bag.. flew to Stuttgart 
several times in 04 - 05 and D. Homeless Security never noticed it... 
then I tried to board a short hop from Stuttgart to Milan Italy and the 
German's noticed it. I was in shock because I had completely forgot 
about it and the big guys with guns were standing around me speaking 
German... one of them left w/o explanation - the other were obviously 
waiting for him. When he returned with a large envelope, he said if I 
put a German address on it, they would mail it for me!!! FREE !!!

-dave

Dan Pritts wrote:

>Nobody's mentioned a leatherman.  Your basic pocket toolbox.
>
>I have a real leatherman brand, which i like, but i would recommend
>shopping around.  Gerber definitely has a good line.  
>
>I also/alternately recommend a good swiss army knife.  I like the
>victorinox "deluxe tinker" which has scissors and pliers.  Wenger
>has an equivalent model with the same tools.  Wenger knives have
>slip-joint pliers, which is incredibly cool, but they are noticeably
>wider profile than the victorinox pliers so it's hard to use them 
>to reach into really tight little spots.  For instance, I couldn't
>pull a jumper off a hard disk with the wengers.  
>
>Victorinox has a "cybertool" too which i've not looked at very hard,
>but the one i see on the web site looks awfully big for a "pocket" knife.
>
>Also, get a good flashlight.  Maglites are well-made but they were very
>slow to the LED party.  I like my arc flashlight arc-ls but it's not
>made any more.  candlepower forums is the place to research flashlights.
>
>Thinkgeek has an interesting tool section.  milestek is a good source
>for wiring tools & supplies.
>
>Finally, you need one of these:
> http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/tools/8ace/
>
>On Mon, Jun 25, 2007 at 06:45:36PM -0400, Joseph Vartanian wrote:
>  
>
>>I'm sure at more than a few of you on this list are DIY geeks, so this
>>is for you.  What tools would you want in your toolbox?  Types of
>>tools, specific products, specific brand names...whatever.  What tools
>>do you think are important in a good DIY geek toolbox?
>>
>>I'm really asking because I want to see if I can get any good ideas
>>from you for my own toolbox that I'm building (I'm feed up with my
>>lousy tools), but I also figure others would find it useful.  If you
>>know of a good place to get these tools, online or brick and mortar,
>>that would be cool too.
>>
>>I know you may be thinking this all depends on exactly what type of
>>projects you're working on.  Since I'm not really interested in just
>>one specific thing, lets assume that you're going to be working on a
>>little bit of everything.
>>
>>I'll start out with a really easy one myself...a Dremel 400 Series
>>rotary tool.  I'll leave the more difficult ones up to you guys.
>>
>>-Joseph
>>_______________________________________________
>>mdlug mailing list
>>mdlug at mdlug.org
>>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>>    
>>
>
>danno
>--
>dan pritts
>danno at umich.edu
>734-929-9770
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>  
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070626/0c8262e8/attachment-0001.html>

From tesral at comcast.net  Tue Jun 26 11:57:00 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 11:57:00 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90706260714o356d22bbi90cede8eef7a43e8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90706260714o356d22bbi90cede8eef7a43e8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4681374C.4020506@comcast.net>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> I think we're getting a little carried away here.  A geek tool kit
> should be based on the tools you need most, not what you can fit in a
> large utility truck.  I have a small toolkit and a couple of CDs I
> carry around for most PC and network fixes.  I also have a 300 piece
> Craftsman set with some additions and a large Jensen electronics tools
> kit (www.stanleysupplyservices.com/category.aspx?id=348).  I used to
> carry this stuff in my car wherever I went but I found that I rarely
> used most of it and the weight probably reduced gas mileage.  It was a
> lot easier to make up a small kit to keep with me and have other sets
> and power tools available for larger jobs.
>
> The Jensen kit was very expensive and had a lifetime warranty.  But
> later I found the same tools elsewhere for a lot cheaper and minimal
> warranty.  I realized that the added cost of a lifetime warranty was
> more than a second set of tools so now I buy the cheapest stuff
> available.  If a lifetime warranty tool breaks you still have work
> without it until it gets replaced.  If you have 2-3 cheap tool kits
> you always have an immediately available backup.
>   

That is why I recommend Craftsman over all over lift time choices. 
Craftsman is a third the price of Mac and Snap-on and Sears stores are
common as weeds.  You walk in "it's broken", they give you another. 
That simple.  It doesn't matter why even.  My son bend my ultra fine
needle nose pliers trying to do heavy plier jobs with them.  I chewed
out son as to proper tool usage and took the abused pliers to Sears. 
Walked out with new pliers, no cost.

Second thing, I have had to do it twice in 49 years.  They are GOOD
tools, they don't break.  I was given a cheap set of JC Penny sockets. 
I broke those bastards right and left.  Warranty? What warranty.  I have
never broken a Craftsman socket, and I use tools hard.

Cheap tools break, frequently.  Good tools are lifetime replaceable, and
don't break.  Do the math.  OK, I pay twice as much for a Craftsman tool
than some no name at Harbor Freight.  How many times will I replace the
Harbor Freight tool?  How many times will I replace the Craftsman?

BTW, I have two copies of every wrench.  I prefer combination wrenches. 
That is box end and open end on one tool.  Why two?  I cannot count the
number of times I have had to turn one nut and hold a second in place
while turning the first.  So I have two sets of English and metric wrenches.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From ebradley01 at wowway.com  Tue Jun 26 12:07:28 2007
From: ebradley01 at wowway.com (ebradley01 at wowway.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:07:28 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Surface computing...
Message-ID: <20070626160236.M77530@wowway.com>

A caveat before we begin:

The following video clip (link below) portrays a technology that is being
developed (though not necessarily discovered/pioneered) by Microsoft.  I just
wanted to give everyone fair warning before posting a link that showcases
'They Who Must Not Be Named' in a good light.  ;)


Since we are all self-proclaimed 'geeks' and/or lovers of technology, I
thought this worth sharing...it looks wicked-awesome.  :D

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid932579976?bclid=932553050


evan

--
"The road of life is rocky, and you may stumble too.  So while you point your
finger; someone else is judging you."  --Bob Marley



From mdlug2 at arb.net  Tue Jun 26 12:13:22 2007
From: mdlug2 at arb.net (Dave Arbogast)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:13:22 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <4681374C.4020506@comcast.net>
References: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>	<b02c40e90706260714o356d22bbi90cede8eef7a43e8@mail.gmail.com>
	<4681374C.4020506@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <46813B22.7090101@arb.net>



Garry Stahl wrote:

> That is why I recommend Craftsman over all over lift time choices.
>
>Craftsman is a third the price of Mac and Snap-on and Sears stores are
>common as weeds.  You walk in "it's broken", they give you another. 
>That simple.  It doesn't matter why even.  My son bend my ultra fine
>needle nose pliers trying to do heavy plier jobs with them.  I chewed
>out son as to proper tool usage and took the abused pliers to Sears. 
>Walked out with new pliers, no cost.
>
>Second thing, I have had to do it twice in 49 years.  They are GOOD
>tools, they don't break.  I was given a cheap set of JC Penny sockets. 
>I broke those bastards right and left.  Warranty? What warranty.  I have
>never broken a Craftsman socket, and I use tools hard.
>
>Cheap tools break, frequently.  Good tools are lifetime replaceable, and
>don't break.  Do the math.  OK, I pay twice as much for a Craftsman tool
>than some no name at Harbor Freight.  How many times will I replace the
>Harbor Freight tool?  How many times will I replace the Craftsman?
>
>BTW, I have two copies of every wrench.  I prefer combination wrenches. 
>That is box end and open end on one tool.  Why two?  I cannot count the
>number of times I have had to turn one nut and hold a second in place
>while turning the first.  So I have two sets of English and metric wrenches.
>  
>
I buy Craftsman too, but you have to start watching them closely and 
complaining.... First it was the Craftsman tin snips - sold as lifetime 
warranty as "all Craftsman hand tools", but when you try to replace them 
they give you "Sears" band or refund your money from the last time they 
sold them.. next, wire strippers, same thing. Now, Craftsman tape 
measures of the Yellow and black color are replaced with "Craftsman" Red 
and Black with a simple 1 year replacement warranty. Beyond 1 year, your 
Craftsman tape measure is like any other w/o a warranty... I suspect the 
trend will continue until people start buying Snap-On or Mac....
-dave


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Tue Jun 26 12:15:05 2007
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:15:05 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <4681374C.4020506@comcast.net>
References: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90706260714o356d22bbi90cede8eef7a43e8@mail.gmail.com>
	<4681374C.4020506@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1182874505.6788.0.camel@plumber.site>

On Tue, 2007-06-26 at 11:57 -0400, Garry Stahl wrote:
> Jeff Hanson wrote:
> > I think we're getting a little carried away here.  A geek tool kit
> > should be based on the tools you need most, not what you can fit in a
> > large utility truck.  I have a small toolkit and a couple of CDs I
> > carry around for most PC and network fixes.  I also have a 300 piece
> > Craftsman set with some additions and a large Jensen electronics tools
> > kit (www.stanleysupplyservices.com/category.aspx?id=348).  I used to
> > carry this stuff in my car wherever I went but I found that I rarely
> > used most of it and the weight probably reduced gas mileage.  It was a
> > lot easier to make up a small kit to keep with me and have other sets
> > and power tools available for larger jobs.
> >
> > The Jensen kit was very expensive and had a lifetime warranty.  But
> > later I found the same tools elsewhere for a lot cheaper and minimal
> > warranty.  I realized that the added cost of a lifetime warranty was
> > more than a second set of tools so now I buy the cheapest stuff
> > available.  If a lifetime warranty tool breaks you still have work
> > without it until it gets replaced.  If you have 2-3 cheap tool kits
> > you always have an immediately available backup.
> >   
> 
> That is why I recommend Craftsman over all over lift time choices. 
> Craftsman is a third the price of Mac and Snap-on and Sears stores are
> common as weeds.  You walk in "it's broken", they give you another. 
> That simple.  It doesn't matter why even.  My son bend my ultra fine
> needle nose pliers trying to do heavy plier jobs with them.  I chewed
> out son as to proper tool usage and took the abused pliers to Sears. 
> Walked out with new pliers, no cost.
> 
> Second thing, I have had to do it twice in 49 years.  They are GOOD
> tools, they don't break.  I was given a cheap set of JC Penny sockets. 
> I broke those bastards right and left.  Warranty? What warranty.  I have
> never broken a Craftsman socket, and I use tools hard.
> 
> Cheap tools break, frequently.  Good tools are lifetime replaceable, and
> don't break.  Do the math.  OK, I pay twice as much for a Craftsman tool
> than some no name at Harbor Freight.  How many times will I replace the
> Harbor Freight tool?  How many times will I replace the Craftsman?
> 
> BTW, I have two copies of every wrench.  I prefer combination wrenches. 
> That is box end and open end on one tool.  Why two?  I cannot count the
> number of times I have had to turn one nut and hold a second in place
> while turning the first.  So I have two sets of English and metric wrenches.

	I second everything Gary said w/o reservation.
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Tue Jun 26 12:15:36 2007
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:15:36 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Surface computing...
In-Reply-To: <20070626160236.M77530@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <C2A6B3E8.3AEB8%GregWojtak@quickenloans.com>

"We've got a blue-tabletop... can you reboot the coffee table?"


On 6/26/07 12:07 PM, "ebradley01 at wowway.com" <ebradley01 at wowway.com> wrote:

> http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid932579976?bclid=932553050


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Tue Jun 26 12:27:11 2007
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 09:27:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Surface computing...
In-Reply-To: <20070626160236.M77530@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <77905.95687.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I saw this. BUT this is being driven by Microsoft. 

ebradley01 at wowway.com wrote:  A caveat before we begin:

The following video clip (link below) portrays a technology that is being
developed (though not necessarily discovered/pioneered) by Microsoft. I just
wanted to give everyone fair warning before posting a link that showcases
'They Who Must Not Be Named' in a good light. ;)


Since we are all self-proclaimed 'geeks' and/or lovers of technology, I
thought this worth sharing...it looks wicked-awesome. :D

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid932579976?bclid=932553050


evan

--
"The road of life is rocky, and you may stumble too. So while you point your
finger; someone else is judging you." --Bob Marley

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


       
---------------------------------
Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070626/31de3761/attachment-0001.html>

From admin at linuxtechdaily.com  Tue Jun 26 12:44:50 2007
From: admin at linuxtechdaily.com (Rich Hughes)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:44:50 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Channel vendors skeptical about Vista sales figures
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90706251212h66cb915cpda5ec3ff21e8a686@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e90706251212h66cb915cpda5ec3ff21e8a686@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46814282.4030608@linuxtechdaily.com>

Hello, I am new to the list.

I manage a retail store computer store, and I can verify that people 
hate vista. It helps us to move systems with XP, and has been a huge 
help in getting me the authority to sell Linux systems in our retail 
stores. I hear anywhere from 5-10 negative comments about vista every 
day. It is shocking, but really not considering the sub-par product 
vista is. The sad thing is that XP is now considered a solid system by 
people.

I have yet to sell a Vista desktop system. It is such a great 
opportunity for linux, there are good times ahead.

Thanks,
Rich


Jeff Hanson wrote:
> channel.tomshardware.com/2007/06/25/channel_skeptical_about_vista_claims/
>
> You'd think that 40-million units sold would represent a runaway hit.
> But while Microsoft is calling Vista a huge win, some folks in the
> channel are not completely sold on that assessment.
>
> "Microsoft's launch of Vista has been as successful as the U.S.
> finding WMDs in Iraq," Herb Criscito, vice president for Buy.com,
> said. "We are finding little to no demand for the new operating
> system. Lack of support, drivers and compatibility issues have been
> major roadblocks deterring customers to upgrade."
>
> Yet, Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates recently said 40 million units were
> sold in the first 100 days of the operating system's release (while
> almost 75% of the licenses were for the Premium edition) and that the
> Vista adoption rate has been twice as fast as the adoption of Windows
> XP.
>
> But so far, the channel is pausing to think about the "non-OEM"
> recommendation options for Vista. According to resellers polled, the
> overwhelming response from almost every customer segment is to wait.
> Clients by and large are still ordering machines with XP, or if they
> get them with Vista, are rebuilding an image with XP and rolling it
> out from there.
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>   




From danno at umich.edu  Tue Jun 26 13:02:07 2007
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 13:02:07 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <4681374C.4020506@comcast.net>
References: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90706260714o356d22bbi90cede8eef7a43e8@mail.gmail.com>
	<4681374C.4020506@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20070626170206.GC71664@maniac.deathstar.org>

On Tue, Jun 26, 2007 at 11:57:00AM -0400, Garry Stahl wrote:
> 
> That is why I recommend Craftsman over all over lift time choices. 
> Craftsman is a third the price of Mac and Snap-on and Sears stores are
> common as weeds.  You walk in "it's broken", they give you another. 

...in theory.  I walked into sears with a broken hole punch and
they didn't have it in stock and didn't give me the option of
ordering a replacement, just said "sorry".

Probably I should have asked for a manager but sheesh.

> BTW, I have two copies of every wrench.  I prefer combination wrenches. 
> That is box end and open end on one tool.  Why two?  I cannot count the
> number of times I have had to turn one nut and hold a second in place
> while turning the first.  So I have two sets of English and metric wrenches.

I got a set of these for christmas:  

  http://www.gearwrench.com/catalog/wrenches/ratcheting/combination/

They don't fit everywhere that a standard box wrench does, but they
are pretty slim compared to other racheting box wrenches i've used,
and seem very well made.

I think there is a craftsman version (i think just has a sears label
on the same tool) but it was significantly more money.

They do have a lifetime warranty for consumer use although it's not
backed up by sears.

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From tesral at comcast.net  Tue Jun 26 13:44:34 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 13:44:34 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Channel vendors skeptical about Vista sales figures
In-Reply-To: <46814282.4030608@linuxtechdaily.com>
References: <b02c40e90706251212h66cb915cpda5ec3ff21e8a686@mail.gmail.com>
	<46814282.4030608@linuxtechdaily.com>
Message-ID: <46815082.1010008@comcast.net>

Rich Hughes wrote:
> Hello, I am new to the list.
>
> I manage a retail store computer store, and I can verify that people 
> hate vista. It helps us to move systems with XP, and has been a huge 
> help in getting me the authority to sell Linux systems in our retail 
> stores. I hear anywhere from 5-10 negative comments about vista every 
> day. It is shocking, but really not considering the sub-par product 
> vista is. The sad thing is that XP is now considered a solid system by 
> people.
>   

Which store?  I like places that have people that understand.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From radkins at impelind.com  Tue Jun 26 13:59:52 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 13:59:52 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Surface computing...
In-Reply-To: <20070626160236.M77530@wowway.com>
References: <20070626160236.M77530@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <46815418.5000606@impelind.com>

ebradley01 at wowway.com said the following on 6/26/2007 12:07 PM:
> A caveat before we begin:
>
> The following video clip (link below) portrays a technology that is being
> developed (though not necessarily discovered/pioneered) by Microsoft.  I just
> wanted to give everyone fair warning before posting a link that showcases
> 'They Who Must Not Be Named' in a good light.  ;)
>
>
> Since we are all self-proclaimed 'geeks' and/or lovers of technology, I
> thought this worth sharing...it looks wicked-awesome.  :D
>
> http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid932579976?bclid=932553050
>
>
> evan

    I've seen it, it is a nice gimmick.

    Honestly, that's how I see it staying. Like those "email 
appliances". Sure, some people still use them, but they are few and far 
between.

    I would elaborate, I just have other things to do right now.
   
    -Rob


From tesral at comcast.net  Tue Jun 26 14:17:36 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 14:17:36 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <20070626145636.GA59059@maniac.deathstar.org>
References: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070626145636.GA59059@maniac.deathstar.org>
Message-ID: <46815840.9070004@comcast.net>

Dan Pritts wrote:
> Nobody's mentioned a leatherman.  Your basic pocket toolbox.
>
> I have a real leatherman brand, which i like, but i would recommend
> shopping around.  Gerber definitely has a good line.  
>   

I have three.  I consider the leatherman the tool box of last resort. 
Why would I mention a leatherman?  Like, it goes where I go.


> Also, get a good flashlight.  Maglites are well-made but they were very
> slow to the LED party.  I like my arc flashlight arc-ls but it's not
> made any more.  candlepower forums is the place to research flashlights.
>   

There is an affordable magllite LED conversion kit at Micorcenter.





-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Tue Jun 26 14:16:55 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 14:16:55 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Surface computing...
In-Reply-To: <20070626160236.M77530@wowway.com>
References: <20070626160236.M77530@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706261116o4ca30582h7d57e6ab588fe1bd@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/26/07, ebradley01 at wowway.com <ebradley01 at wowway.com> wrote:
> The following video clip (link below) portrays a technology that is being
> developed (though not necessarily discovered/pioneered) by Microsoft.  I just
> wanted to give everyone fair warning before posting a link that showcases
> 'They Who Must Not Be Named' in a good light.  ;)

Its pretty but not really innovative.  The primary advancement I see
is the multiple pointer support.  Currently with Windows and X,
simultaneous input from multiple pointing devices is aggregated.  They
need to be handled separately and the window manager needs to be able
to respond differently when they are used together on the same window.
 These are probably filed under secret patents 236 and 237.


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Tue Jun 26 14:41:58 2007
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 11:41:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Surface computing...
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90706261116o4ca30582h7d57e6ab588fe1bd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <488549.47366.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

It is applying exsting technology.
   
  

Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com> wrote:
  On 6/26/07, ebradley01 at wowway.com wrote:
> The following video clip (link below) portrays a technology that is being
> developed (though not necessarily discovered/pioneered) by Microsoft. I just
> wanted to give everyone fair warning before posting a link that showcases
> 'They Who Must Not Be Named' in a good light. ;)

Its pretty but not really innovative. The primary advancement I see
is the multiple pointer support. Currently with Windows and X,
simultaneous input from multiple pointing devices is aggregated. They
need to be handled separately and the window manager needs to be able
to respond differently when they are used together on the same window.
These are probably filed under secret patents 236 and 237.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


       
---------------------------------
Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070626/fdf5ae73/attachment-0001.html>

From freemancomputer at yahoo.com  Tue Jun 26 19:00:44 2007
From: freemancomputer at yahoo.com (jack freeman)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 16:00:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel panic
Message-ID: <564977.74961.qm@web55506.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

I am having a prblom with my web server booting. At times when it trys to boot i get a "kernel panic - not syncing: fatal exception in interrupt". When it does boot it has a rather bad habit of locking up. I am running Mandravia 2007.1. Any ideas?

Jack



       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070626/82e7fe1d/attachment-0001.html>

From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Tue Jun 26 19:32:44 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:32:44 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel panic
In-Reply-To: <564977.74961.qm@web55506.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <564977.74961.qm@web55506.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706261632i42e78e8dmda9bdf630195118e@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/26/07, jack freeman <freemancomputer at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I am having a prblom with my web server booting. At times when it trys to
> boot i get a "kernel panic - not syncing: fatal exception in interrupt".
> When it does boot it has a rather bad habit of locking up. I am running
> Mandravia 2007.1. Any ideas?

What is the motherboard model and BIOS version?


From jvartanian at gmail.com  Tue Jun 26 22:49:01 2007
From: jvartanian at gmail.com (Joseph Vartanian)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:49:01 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <20070626145636.GA59059@maniac.deathstar.org>
References: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070626145636.GA59059@maniac.deathstar.org>
Message-ID: <dd889b430706261949l3013963btf26e49967cc6c949@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/26/07, Dan Pritts <danno at umich.edu> wrote:
> Nobody's mentioned a leatherman.  Your basic pocket toolbox.
>
> I have a real leatherman brand, which i like, but i would recommend
> shopping around.  Gerber definitely has a good line.
>
> I also/alternately recommend a good swiss army knife.  I like the
> victorinox "deluxe tinker" which has scissors and pliers.  Wenger
> has an equivalent model with the same tools.  Wenger knives have
> slip-joint pliers, which is incredibly cool, but they are noticeably
> wider profile than the victorinox pliers so it's hard to use them
> to reach into really tight little spots.  For instance, I couldn't
> pull a jumper off a hard disk with the wengers.
>
> Victorinox has a "cybertool" too which i've not looked at very hard,
> but the one i see on the web site looks awfully big for a "pocket" knife.
>
> Also, get a good flashlight.  Maglites are well-made but they were very
> slow to the LED party.  I like my arc flashlight arc-ls but it's not
> made any more.  candlepower forums is the place to research flashlights.
>
> Thinkgeek has an interesting tool section.  milestek is a good source
> for wiring tools & supplies.
>
> Finally, you need one of these:
>  http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/tools/8ace/
>

Leatherman tools are great.  They have to be the best, but I recently
notice a rather nice multitool from another company that I now
want...the Paladin PowerPlay PT-540.  Normally I wouldn't trust
something like this from a company that doesn't specialize in knives,
but Paladin Tools tends to make good stuff.  This is a true geek
multitool.  Other companies take a standard multitool, and stick a
cheap USB flash drive on it.  Paladin actually gave this tool things
like punchdown blades, a wire hook and a terminal lug crimper.
http://www.paladin-tools.com/view_tool.php?id=490

As for the titanium spork, that's already on my wish list...really.
That thing is just too damn cool.

-Joseph


From jvartanian at gmail.com  Tue Jun 26 23:46:13 2007
From: jvartanian at gmail.com (Joseph Vartanian)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 23:46:13 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <4681374C.4020506@comcast.net>
References: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90706260714o356d22bbi90cede8eef7a43e8@mail.gmail.com>
	<4681374C.4020506@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <dd889b430706262046n6661189fv852edaf3ef39bff6@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/26/07, Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:
> Jeff Hanson wrote:
> > I think we're getting a little carried away here.  A geek tool kit
> > should be based on the tools you need most, not what you can fit in a
> > large utility truck.  I have a small toolkit and a couple of CDs I
> > carry around for most PC and network fixes.  I also have a 300 piece
> > Craftsman set with some additions and a large Jensen electronics tools
> > kit (www.stanleysupplyservices.com/category.aspx?id=348).  I used to
> > carry this stuff in my car wherever I went but I found that I rarely
> > used most of it and the weight probably reduced gas mileage.  It was a
> > lot easier to make up a small kit to keep with me and have other sets
> > and power tools available for larger jobs.
> >
> > The Jensen kit was very expensive and had a lifetime warranty.  But
> > later I found the same tools elsewhere for a lot cheaper and minimal
> > warranty.  I realized that the added cost of a lifetime warranty was
> > more than a second set of tools so now I buy the cheapest stuff
> > available.  If a lifetime warranty tool breaks you still have work
> > without it until it gets replaced.  If you have 2-3 cheap tool kits
> > you always have an immediately available backup.
> >
>
> That is why I recommend Craftsman over all over lift time choices.
> Craftsman is a third the price of Mac and Snap-on and Sears stores are
> common as weeds.  You walk in "it's broken", they give you another.
> That simple.  It doesn't matter why even.  My son bend my ultra fine
> needle nose pliers trying to do heavy plier jobs with them.  I chewed
> out son as to proper tool usage and took the abused pliers to Sears.
> Walked out with new pliers, no cost.
>
> Second thing, I have had to do it twice in 49 years.  They are GOOD
> tools, they don't break.  I was given a cheap set of JC Penny sockets.
> I broke those bastards right and left.  Warranty? What warranty.  I have
> never broken a Craftsman socket, and I use tools hard.
>
> Cheap tools break, frequently.  Good tools are lifetime replaceable, and
> don't break.  Do the math.  OK, I pay twice as much for a Craftsman tool
> than some no name at Harbor Freight.  How many times will I replace the
> Harbor Freight tool?  How many times will I replace the Craftsman?
>
> BTW, I have two copies of every wrench.  I prefer combination wrenches.
> That is box end and open end on one tool.  Why two?  I cannot count the
> number of times I have had to turn one nut and hold a second in place
> while turning the first.  So I have two sets of English and metric wrenches.
>

I would say both of you are right in a way.  I'm personally sick of
cheap tools failing when I need them.  It just doesn't seem right when
a screw strips your screwdriver.  It should be the other way around.
At the same time I'm not rich and I don't make my living off my tools,
so I can't justify getting a full set of expensive tools.  I would say
the best approach would be to get the quality stuff on the tools one
needs most (like the titanium spork), and get the cheap stuff for the
things you need less often.

-Joseph


From tesral at comcast.net  Wed Jun 27 00:27:19 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 00:27:19 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
Message-ID: <4681E727.9050003@comcast.net>

Vista only Titles cracked.

<http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6146&Itemid=2>

I wonder how long before someone gets XP to spoof as Vista for the
"Windows Live" stuff?  Frankly, I wonder how much difference there
really is outside of the pretty and the DRM?

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From jvartanian at gmail.com  Wed Jun 27 00:58:32 2007
From: jvartanian at gmail.com (Joseph Vartanian)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 00:58:32 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
In-Reply-To: <4681E727.9050003@comcast.net>
References: <4681E727.9050003@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <dd889b430706262158i69392596p2a96d6490bb148d6@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/27/07, Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:
> Vista only Titles cracked.
>
> <http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6146&Itemid=2>
>
> I wonder how long before someone gets XP to spoof as Vista for the
> "Windows Live" stuff?  Frankly, I wonder how much difference there
> really is outside of the pretty and the DRM?
>

A lot of people have been saying that Vista is just XP with a pretty
new interface.  I've even seen several IT folks at work saying that.
This is wrong.  There are many dramatic changes in Vista under the
hood, but most of them aren't obvious to your typical user.

I haven't had time to really take a good look at Vista yet, but from
what little time I've spent playing with it, it's easy to see that
they changed a hell of a lot of things.  I was really looking more at
how the OS works and not the GUI parts that everyone sees.

Just to get you to maybe believe what I'm saying, think about
this...Why would they need 6 years to develop this OS if all they did
was to add 3D effect to the GUI and some DRM?  I'm not defending (or
bashing) Vista...I'm just pointing out that it's not Windows XP 3D
Edition like most people seem to think.

-Joseph


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Wed Jun 27 01:56:39 2007
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 01:56:39 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
In-Reply-To: <dd889b430706262158i69392596p2a96d6490bb148d6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4681E727.9050003@comcast.net>
	<dd889b430706262158i69392596p2a96d6490bb148d6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380706262256l774e1898v60dc17599527c934@mail.gmail.com>

-- Joseph Vartanian wrote:

> Garry Stahl wrote:

> > Vista-only titles cracked.

> A lot of people have been saying that Vista is just XP with a pretty
> new interface.  I've even seen several IT folks at work saying that.
> This is wrong.  There are many dramatic changes in Vista under the
> hood, but most of them aren't obvious to your typical user.
[...]
> Just to get you to maybe believe what I'm saying, think about
> this...Why would they need 6 years to develop this OS if all they did
> was to add 3D effect to the GUI and some DRM?

Because after nearly four years of development, they scrapped it all
as too tangled to build, let alone maintain-- and started over pretty
much (by all indications) from the Server 2003 codebase.  See
<http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/microsoft/archives/110354.asp> for
Jim Allchin's "I'd buy a Mac" speech from that time.  As I put it
myself at the time, "Microsoft is jettisoning features like furniture
from a blimp with a slow leak."  This turned out to be pretty much the
case.

Also, a LOT of time and effort went into not only the DRM stuff (and,
yes security improvements-- such as they are), but in tweaking and
back-porting the "Aero" interface so it would run
better-than-half-assed on recent Intel integrated-graphics chipsets;
this was demanded by Intel, as it would have otherwise exposed the
sub-par performance of their graphics hardware pretty starkly (Aero
would have been IMPOSSIBLE to use on default Intel hardware before the
revamp).  I can't even BEGIN to imagine how difficult THAT was.

Last, but certainly not least, is the impact of the "permatemps"
decision.  When the long-term-temporary employees won their lawsuit
for back pay and benefits to the tune of $97 million, Bill Gates
canned them ALL in a fit of pique-- a massive amount of knowledge went
with them; for example, Windows 2000 can no longer be built from the
source code, as knowledge of the compiler tweaks needed to do so left
with the permatemps-- some of them had been there for 12 years, and
regular employees had to pick up the slack (where they could).

-- Mikey


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Wed Jun 27 08:32:29 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 08:32:29 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
In-Reply-To: <dd889b430706262158i69392596p2a96d6490bb148d6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DFC@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>


> From: Joseph Vartanian

> A lot of people have been saying that Vista is just XP with a pretty
> new interface.  I've even seen several IT folks at work saying that.
> This is wrong.  There are many dramatic changes in Vista under the
> hood, but most of them aren't obvious to your typical user.

 Can you name some of them? I'm not aware of many beyond the user interface
stuff.

 1. Security changes. Consists almost entirely, from what I can see, of
reinventing 'sudo', badly. ("Those who do not understand UNIX are condemned
to reinvent it - badly." -- Henry Spencer.)

 2. DRM 'enhancements', which we've already discussed:
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html

 3. Nerfing OpenGL. Apparently designed to interfere with cross-platform
games.

 4. "ReadyBoost". Basically a special swap partition that can be put on a
flash drive that has certain characteristics. A mildly interesting hack,
but their time would be better spent making the system less memory-hungry
overall.

 Anything else? I write this as someone with a Vista Home Basic computer
at home. (My wife uses it because she insists on MS Office.) Note that
Home Basic does *not* use Aero, so the *only* changes I would see would
be non-GUI stuff. And the above is all I've seen, aside from the fact that
XP is usable in 1GB of RAM and Vista is astonishingly sluggish.

> Just to get you to maybe believe what I'm saying, think about
> this...Why would they need 6 years to develop this OS if all they did
> was to add 3D effect to the GUI and some DRM?

 As has been pointed out, it's largely because they gave up and started over.
Their codebase is Huge (capital 'H' intended) - *well* over 40 million lines,
just for the operating system. A project that size is nearly unmanageable
without careful design and strict discipline following that design. Neither
of those traits have been much in evidence at MS for quite a while. They do
not maintain good separation of functionality in modules (the word 'incestuous'
comes to mind), and the control flow in Windows operation is exceedingly
complex. For example:
 http://blogs.zdnet.com/threatchaos/?p=311

 Not to mention the fact that developing for Windows is just plain more
complicated than for Linux. I wrote some comments about that here:
 http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/bf055025af897210

 So no, I'm not surprised that there's so little 'there' there in Vista.
What I'm really amazed about is how so few changes suck up so much more
memory.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                                (313) 227-2317
 
 If we teach everybody... habits of skeptical thought, they will probably
 not restrict their skepticism to UFOs... Maybe they'll start asking
 awkward questions about economic, or social, or political, or religious
 institutions. Perhaps they'll challenge the opinions of those in power.
                Then where would we be? - Carl Sagan

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. 


From tmorris at ugs.com  Wed Jun 27 08:37:06 2007
From: tmorris at ugs.com (Morris, Tim)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 07:37:06 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] SUSPECT: RE:  OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <4681374C.4020506@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E203124909@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>

The problem is they break when you're using them, not while they're
sitting on the shelf. It's a pain in the *** to have your tools break
and then have to stop what you're doing and replace them. I've had so
many craftsmen wrenches break while using them (lightly) that I gave up.
These days, if you try to return it to Sears they'll either laugh at you
or give you some cheap taiwan knock-off in exchange. If you're going to
go cheap, go cheapest and buy 2 from harbor freight or something. At
least then you have another on the shelf. I would much rather buy a
Matco or Snap-On. 


--  Tim Morris - UGS PLM Software

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Garry Stahl
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 11:57 AM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> I think we're getting a little carried away here.  A geek tool kit 
> should be based on the tools you need most, not what you can fit in a 
> large utility truck.  I have a small toolkit and a couple of CDs I 
> carry around for most PC and network fixes.  I also have a 300 piece 
> Craftsman set with some additions and a large Jensen electronics tools

> kit (www.stanleysupplyservices.com/category.aspx?id=348).  I used to 
> carry this stuff in my car wherever I went but I found that I rarely 
> used most of it and the weight probably reduced gas mileage.  It was a

> lot easier to make up a small kit to keep with me and have other sets 
> and power tools available for larger jobs.
>
> The Jensen kit was very expensive and had a lifetime warranty.  But 
> later I found the same tools elsewhere for a lot cheaper and minimal 
> warranty.  I realized that the added cost of a lifetime warranty was 
> more than a second set of tools so now I buy the cheapest stuff 
> available.  If a lifetime warranty tool breaks you still have work 
> without it until it gets replaced.  If you have 2-3 cheap tool kits 
> you always have an immediately available backup.
>   

That is why I recommend Craftsman over all over lift time choices. 
Craftsman is a third the price of Mac and Snap-on and Sears stores are
common as weeds.  You walk in "it's broken", they give you another. 
That simple.  It doesn't matter why even.  My son bend my ultra fine
needle nose pliers trying to do heavy plier jobs with them.  I chewed
out son as to proper tool usage and took the abused pliers to Sears. 
Walked out with new pliers, no cost.

Second thing, I have had to do it twice in 49 years.  They are GOOD
tools, they don't break.  I was given a cheap set of JC Penny sockets. 
I broke those bastards right and left.  Warranty? What warranty.  I have
never broken a Craftsman socket, and I use tools hard.

Cheap tools break, frequently.  Good tools are lifetime replaceable, and
don't break.  Do the math.  OK, I pay twice as much for a Craftsman tool
than some no name at Harbor Freight.  How many times will I replace the
Harbor Freight tool?  How many times will I replace the Craftsman?

BTW, I have two copies of every wrench.  I prefer combination wrenches. 
That is box end and open end on one tool.  Why two?  I cannot count the
number of times I have had to turn one nut and hold a second in place
while turning the first.  So I have two sets of English and metric
wrenches.

--
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes Star Trek mort. Viva la Star
Trek admiraetur The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From otakurider at gmail.com  Wed Jun 27 09:10:19 2007
From: otakurider at gmail.com (-)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 09:10:19 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel panic
In-Reply-To: <564977.74961.qm@web55506.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <564977.74961.qm@web55506.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cd5131a50706270610t24e90f9cr2d237f2cb8ba8093@mail.gmail.com>

I had this problem with a system and it turned out to be memory chips not
seated.  I reseated and never had a problem after.

Pat



On 6/26/07, jack freeman <freemancomputer at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>  I am having a prblom with my web server booting. At times when it trys to
> boot i get a "kernel panic - not syncing: fatal exception in interrupt".
> When it does boot it has a rather bad habit of locking up. I am running
> Mandravia 2007.1. Any ideas?
>
> Jack
>
> ------------------------------
> Building a website is a piece of cake.
> Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48251/*http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting/?p=PASSPORTPLUS>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070627/eaba4e7c/attachment-0001.html>

From eaglecoach at wwnet.com  Wed Jun 27 09:19:00 2007
From: eaglecoach at wwnet.com (Robert Meier)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 09:19:00 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] MDLUG usage reminder
Message-ID: <468263C4.mailJ5I1ZRV4M@freehold.wwnet.com>

This is the monthly reminder of
     mdlug List Guidelines.
Please send comments to eaglecoach at wwnet.com
Meetings are monthly (http://www.mdlug.org/meetings/meetings.html).

*Courtesy:*
Do unto others what you would have them do unto you in their place.

See /Emily Postnews/ (http://www.templetons.com/brad/emily.html) and
  /Netiquette Guidelines/ (http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html) for details.

If you find something objectionable or off-topic, please send a courteous
  note offlist to the author (and/or postmaster at mdlug.org) rather than list.
  (The rule is simple, do not be easily annoyed or annoying.)

Please post messages in plain text (rather than html or rich text).
  See http://expita.com/nomime.html for instructions for your browser.

Please remove References: field when starting a new subject.

Please trim your replies so that you only quote the parts you are are
  replying to, rather than the entire original message , and
  prefix with '>'. (Most mail clients do this part automatically.)

Please do not cross-post, and if you feel you must, please direct
  discussion to one list with a reply-to; field

*Lists:*
 mdlug-admin    mdlug administration

 mdlug-newbie   questions/answers with explanation of concepts
                assume the questioner was unaware of the
                man/info/... pages
                initial configuration of ???

 mdlug          ANNOUNCE: announcements only, no discussion

 mdlug          questions/answers using jargon
                assume the questioner has read the man/info/... pages
                technical (e.g. howto, perl scripts)

 mdlug-discuss  politics
                Microsoft-bashing
                my disto can beat up your distro, and other flames
                anything else

*Filtering and Security*
If you lack time or interest to follow some of the topics, ask
 mdlug-newbie for suggestions on filtering mail automatically.

We welcome the many who listen silently, and invite them to post when
 they wish to contribute either questions or answers.

We strip the reply to addresses from the headers of messages before putting
 them in the archives.

Likewise, our archiving software quashes email addresses in the body of
 messages, to make them difficult for spammers to harvest. However they
 will still be human readable so you might want to consider this before
 posting personal email addresses.

Have fun!


From micorral at comcast.net  Wed Jun 27 10:45:59 2007
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 10:45:59 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.4.64.0706271014560.4080@w2zzzp0601.amer.corp.eds.com>

Ingles, Raymond a ecrit:
>> From: Joseph Vartanian
>> A lot of people have been saying that Vista is just XP with a pretty
>> new interface.  I've even seen several IT folks at work saying that.
>> This is wrong.  There are many dramatic changes in Vista under the
>> hood, but most of them aren't obvious to your typical user.
>
> Can you name some of them? I'm not aware of many beyond the user
>interface stuff.

No one hates Microsoft more than me (not even you, Ray!:)), but
Joseph is right that Vista does have some new things besides the GUI
changes that are getting all the attention. One interesting thing is
the new Windows Imaging Format and Windows Deployment Servives, which
allows easier disk imaging and OS deployment than before. Sure, it's
nothing all that new to UNIX (e.g. Solaris' Jumpstart, HP-UX's Ignite,
Red Hat's Kickstart, etc, long ago beat it to the punch), but it's
fairly new to Windows. The way it's usually done now, before Vista, is
to use something like Altiris for mass automated remote OS deployments.
But with Vista that (supposedly) won't be necessary anymore. The new
method also allows modularized image building, so you don't need to
maintain lots of large disk images just for a few changes. I haven't
used all this, but I have heard about it, and for "enterprise"
customers it's probably seen as a good thing.

There are also a bunch of new administrative and diagnostic tools,
stuff the average home user probably doesn't care about but will
likely be of interest to IT personnel. I personally have no desire
to use Vista; I try to minimize my contact with Windows OSes as
much as possible. I know some people who have used it and said that
it's not as bad as they had heard. Not exactly a ringing endorsement.
But not complete condemnation either. Doesn't matter to me, I'll still
be using Linux no matter what.

Michael


From danno at umich.edu  Wed Jun 27 11:23:17 2007
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 11:23:17 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] SUSPECT: RE:  OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E203124909@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
References: <4681374C.4020506@comcast.net>
	<B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E203124909@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
Message-ID: <20070627152317.GB15355@maniac.deathstar.org>

On Wed, Jun 27, 2007 at 07:37:06AM -0500, Morris, Tim wrote:
> The problem is they break when you're using them, not while they're
> sitting on the shelf. It's a pain in the *** to have your tools break
> and then have to stop what you're doing and replace them. I've had so

...and sometimes it can be a critical problem.  

I have a friend (a crazy russian mountain climber/bit-head) who
insists on owning the best possible knife, because once he found
himself in the wilderness with a failed knife and a life-threatening
reason that he needed one.

He has *nice* knives.  

Flashlights especially fall into this category - odds are good when you
want your flashlight you'll be pretty sad if it doesn't work.

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From jvartanian at gmail.com  Wed Jun 27 11:31:42 2007
From: jvartanian at gmail.com (Joseph Vartanian)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 11:31:42 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DFC@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <dd889b430706262158i69392596p2a96d6490bb148d6@mail.gmail.com>
	<41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DFC@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <dd889b430706270831o3638c6a9hf3e14dcc78ca45c@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/27/07, Ingles, Raymond <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:
>
> > From: Joseph Vartanian
>
> > A lot of people have been saying that Vista is just XP with a pretty
> > new interface.  I've even seen several IT folks at work saying that.
> > This is wrong.  There are many dramatic changes in Vista under the
> > hood, but most of them aren't obvious to your typical user.
>
>  Can you name some of them? I'm not aware of many beyond the user interface
> stuff.
>
>  1. Security changes. Consists almost entirely, from what I can see, of
> reinventing 'sudo', badly. ("Those who do not understand UNIX are condemned
> to reinvent it - badly." -- Henry Spencer.)
>
>  2. DRM 'enhancements', which we've already discussed:
> http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html
>
>  3. Nerfing OpenGL. Apparently designed to interfere with cross-platform
> games.
>
>  4. "ReadyBoost". Basically a special swap partition that can be put on a
> flash drive that has certain characteristics. A mildly interesting hack,
> but their time would be better spent making the system less memory-hungry
> overall.
>
>  Anything else? I write this as someone with a Vista Home Basic computer
> at home. (My wife uses it because she insists on MS Office.) Note that
> Home Basic does *not* use Aero, so the *only* changes I would see would
> be non-GUI stuff. And the above is all I've seen, aside from the fact that
> XP is usable in 1GB of RAM and Vista is astonishingly sluggish.
>

Man...I can't believe you're going to make me defend Vista on a LUG
list.  You're going to get me killed.  Like I said, my point is not to
defend it, but rather to just say what is true about it.  If you're an
anti-Microsoft person, just think about how bad it is to underestimate
your enemy.  That's not something you want to do.

Now the changes you mention there are right.  Yes, Vista new User
Access Controls feature is basically a knockoff of sudo, but it's not
true that this is all they did for security.

You said to name some changes, so I will.  Like I said, I've had
little time to play with Vista, but I noticed quite a few new things.
Please keep in mind that I was looking at it from an IT perspective,
so I didn't really spend any time on finding out how Vista does things
like manage my photos, or what cool effect the UI has now.  These are
the changes I can think of right off the top of my head.

*  The software firewall is now bi-directional
*  IPSec and domain isolation are now integrated into the firewall
*  IE now runs in Protected mode (sandboxed)
*  Network Access Protection (NAP) allows admins check a machine's
software for compliance, and only allow access to resources for
compliant machines, or get non-compliant machine up to compliance.
*  New image format, WIM, allows for nondestructive and
hardware-agnostic image based OS deployment
*  WIM images can be maintained offline (no need to restore them,
modify them, and create new images like before)
*  Lot and lots of new Group Policies settings.  I think Microsoft
said they had over 700 new ones.  For those who don't know what Group
Policies are, just know that 700 new ones is a huge thing.
*  Powershell (yes, it's a Unix shell knockoff)
*  Most admin tasks that used to be don't with the GUI only can now
also be done via command like (yes, Unix again)
*  New or improved diagnostics tools
*  Improved auditing.  For example, Vista can forward critical audit
data to a central location

There are a few that I can think of right now.  There's a lot more
that I may not be remembering now, and I going to try because I really
don't want to write a 20 page list.  And I just used it for a short
time, just skimming the surface.

-Joseph


From danno at umich.edu  Wed Jun 27 11:57:10 2007
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 11:57:10 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
In-Reply-To: <dd889b430706270831o3638c6a9hf3e14dcc78ca45c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd889b430706262158i69392596p2a96d6490bb148d6@mail.gmail.com>
	<41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DFC@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<dd889b430706270831o3638c6a9hf3e14dcc78ca45c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070627155710.GA23335@maniac.deathstar.org>

> >
> > > A lot of people have been saying that Vista is just XP with a pretty
> > > new interface.  I've even seen several IT folks at work saying that.
> > > This is wrong.  There are many dramatic changes in Vista under the
> > > hood, but most of them aren't obvious to your typical user.
> >
> >  Can you name some of them? I'm not aware of many beyond the user interface
> > stuff.

I believe that they changed the architecture so that display drivers
(and presumably some other device drivers but I don't know for sure)
no longer run in kernel space.  This is a huge win compared to XP for
security and reliability.

They've also vastly improved their development methodology w/r/t
security; many of the benefits of this showed up with XP SP2 but
this is the first full release under the new regime.  Not that this
solves all problems but it was a huge step in the right direction.

tnx
danno


From tesral at comcast.net  Wed Jun 27 12:19:34 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 12:19:34 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] SUSPECT: RE:  OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <20070627152317.GB15355@maniac.deathstar.org>
References: <4681374C.4020506@comcast.net>	<B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E203124909@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
	<20070627152317.GB15355@maniac.deathstar.org>
Message-ID: <46828E16.4080407@comcast.net>

Dan Pritts wrote:
> He has *nice* knives.  
>   

Wise man.  I like nice knives.

> Flashlights especially fall into this category - odds are good when you
> want your flashlight you'll be pretty sad if it doesn't work.
>   

I check the batteries on my flashlights monthly.  If I notice dimming,
they get changed.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From micorral at comcast.net  Wed Jun 27 12:56:47 2007
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 12:56:47 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.4.64.0706271254520.4080@w2zzzp0601.amer.corp.eds.com>

Joseph Vartanian a ecrit:
> *  Powershell (yes, it's a Unix shell knockoff)

Hmm, I thought PowerShell was not included with Vista, but was still
a separate download. It is included with Windows Server 2008, though.

Michael


From kevinjsmith at gmail.com  Wed Jun 27 13:08:44 2007
From: kevinjsmith at gmail.com (Kevin Jeffrey Smith)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 13:08:44 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
In-Reply-To: <20070627155710.GA23335@maniac.deathstar.org>
References: <dd889b430706262158i69392596p2a96d6490bb148d6@mail.gmail.com>
	<41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DFC@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<dd889b430706270831o3638c6a9hf3e14dcc78ca45c@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070627155710.GA23335@maniac.deathstar.org>
Message-ID: <cd35dd0a0706271008j2cfe39c5lbe69f6e5b2788682@mail.gmail.com>

I decided to install Vista Business as a lark on my main desktop last week -
figured I'd try it before I pass judgment on it. I was impressed with the
install process - very painless. I thought the UAC, as much as people love
to make fun of it, might make non-technical end-users think twice before
installing stuff at random (I know this is a pipe dream, but hey). A lot of
the configuration options in Control Panel seem to be a little more logical
in their location/naming, hardware driver installs seem pretty painless for
the most part, etc.

However, I was shocked at how sluggish it was without turning off a ton of
features. Granted, my rig is no God Box (2.6 GHz P4, 1 GB RAM, 256 MB
GeForce 5500FX vid card) and Vista is supposedly optimized for newer
hardware, but I've had to disable every visual effect, System Restore,
remove unnecessary features from the OS, etc. to get this thing to perform
respectably on my hardware (with all drivers, etc.)

As others have pointed out - it's a interesting step in the right direction.

-KJS

On 6/27/07, Dan Pritts <danno at umich.edu> wrote:
>
> > >
> > > > A lot of people have been saying that Vista is just XP with a pretty
> > > > new interface.  I've even seen several IT folks at work saying that.
> > > > This is wrong.  There are many dramatic changes in Vista under the
> > > > hood, but most of them aren't obvious to your typical user.
> > >
> > >  Can you name some of them? I'm not aware of many beyond the user
> interface
> > > stuff.
>
> I believe that they changed the architecture so that display drivers
> (and presumably some other device drivers but I don't know for sure)
> no longer run in kernel space.  This is a huge win compared to XP for
> security and reliability.
>
> They've also vastly improved their development methodology w/r/t
> security; many of the benefits of this showed up with XP SP2 but
> this is the first full release under the new regime.  Not that this
> solves all problems but it was a huge step in the right direction.
>
> tnx
> danno
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070627/e8467bfc/attachment-0001.html>

From mdlug2 at arb.net  Wed Jun 27 13:52:34 2007
From: mdlug2 at arb.net (Dave Arbogast)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 13:52:34 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
In-Reply-To: <cd35dd0a0706271008j2cfe39c5lbe69f6e5b2788682@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd889b430706262158i69392596p2a96d6490bb148d6@mail.gmail.com>	<41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DFC@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<dd889b430706270831o3638c6a9hf3e14dcc78ca45c@mail.gmail.com>	<20070627155710.GA23335@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<cd35dd0a0706271008j2cfe39c5lbe69f6e5b2788682@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4682A3E2.8060106@arb.net>

What about printing? Do you still have to be admin to install a network 
printer? Last I heard yes...  It really annoys me that they don't see a 
printer as any other non authenticated resource, like browsing a web 
site !!!

-dave

Kevin Jeffrey Smith wrote:

> I decided to install Vista Business as a lark on my main desktop last 
> week - figured I'd try it before I pass judgment on it. I was 
> impressed with the install process - very painless. I thought the UAC, 
> as much as people love to make fun of it, might make non-technical 
> end-users think twice before installing stuff at random (I know this 
> is a pipe dream, but hey). A lot of the configuration options in 
> Control Panel seem to be a little more logical in their 
> location/naming, hardware driver installs seem pretty painless for the 
> most part, etc.
>
> However, I was shocked at how sluggish it was without turning off a 
> ton of features. Granted, my rig is no God Box (2.6 GHz P4, 1 GB RAM, 
> 256 MB GeForce 5500FX vid card) and Vista is supposedly optimized for 
> newer hardware, but I've had to disable every visual effect, System 
> Restore, remove unnecessary features from the OS, etc. to get this 
> thing to perform respectably on my hardware (with all drivers, etc.)
>
> As others have pointed out - it's a interesting step in the right 
> direction.
>
> -KJS
>
> On 6/27/07, Dan Pritts < danno at umich.edu <mailto:danno at umich.edu>> wrote:
>
>     > >
>     > > > A lot of people have been saying that Vista is just XP with
>     a pretty
>     > > > new interface.  I've even seen several IT folks at work
>     saying that.
>     > > > This is wrong.  There are many dramatic changes in Vista
>     under the
>     > > > hood, but most of them aren't obvious to your typical user.
>     > >
>     > >  Can you name some of them? I'm not aware of many beyond the
>     user interface
>     > > stuff.
>
>     I believe that they changed the architecture so that display drivers
>     (and presumably some other device drivers but I don't know for sure)
>     no longer run in kernel space.  This is a huge win compared to XP for
>     security and reliability.
>
>     They've also vastly improved their development methodology w/r/t
>     security; many of the benefits of this showed up with XP SP2 but
>     this is the first full release under the new regime.  Not that this
>     solves all problems but it was a huge step in the right direction.
>
>     tnx
>     danno
>     _______________________________________________
>     mdlug mailing list
>     mdlug at mdlug.org <mailto:mdlug at mdlug.org>
>     http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070627/d3a75de7/attachment-0001.html>

From zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com  Wed Jun 27 15:07:52 2007
From: zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com (M. D. Krauss)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 15:07:52 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] SUSPECT: RE:  OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <20070627152317.GB15355@maniac.deathstar.org>
References: <4681374C.4020506@comcast.net>
	<B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E203124909@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
	<20070627152317.GB15355@maniac.deathstar.org>
Message-ID: <20070627150752.657ed3af@tessa.long>

On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 11:23:17 -0400
Dan Pritts <danno at umich.edu> wrote:

/snip

> Flashlights especially fall into this category - odds are good when
> you want your flashlight you'll be pretty sad if it doesn't work.

Yeah, this is why I keep wind-up LED flashlights around.


From jvartanian at gmail.com  Wed Jun 27 15:15:48 2007
From: jvartanian at gmail.com (Joseph Vartanian)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 15:15:48 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
In-Reply-To: <Pine.WNT.4.64.0706271254520.4080@w2zzzp0601.amer.corp.eds.com>
References: <Pine.WNT.4.64.0706271254520.4080@w2zzzp0601.amer.corp.eds.com>
Message-ID: <dd889b430706271215g4bd835c0tfc75c9a4f07ac74d@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/27/07, Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net> wrote:
> Joseph Vartanian a ecrit:
> > *  Powershell (yes, it's a Unix shell knockoff)
>
> Hmm, I thought PowerShell was not included with Vista, but was still
> a separate download. It is included with Windows Server 2008, though.
>
> Michael

You're right.  Looks like PowerShell is a download.  I thought it was included.

-Joseph


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Wed Jun 27 16:03:33 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 16:03:33 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
In-Reply-To: <dd889b430706270831o3638c6a9hf3e14dcc78ca45c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33E04@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>


> From: Joseph Vartanian

> *  The software firewall is now bi-directional
> *  IPSec and domain isolation are now integrated into the firewall
> *  IE now runs in Protected mode (sandboxed)

 Somewhat better security out of the box, okay. I don't see much that couldn't
be done with 3rd-party stuff before, though. All the rest that you mention are
really only useful for corporate management. End users won't care about that
stuff. Still surprising that it took that long just to get that stuff.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                             (313) 227-2317

 "President Bush has introduced an exciting innovation - the fake town
  hall. In these stirring non-debates, pre-screened citizens are free
 to voice their president's opinions, and pepper him with the toughest
            of compliments." - Samantha Bee, The Daily Show

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. 


From jvartanian at gmail.com  Wed Jun 27 19:09:37 2007
From: jvartanian at gmail.com (Joseph Vartanian)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 19:09:37 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33E04@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <dd889b430706270831o3638c6a9hf3e14dcc78ca45c@mail.gmail.com>
	<41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33E04@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <dd889b430706271609v7ed88b18jd4a7924b29e82f44@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/27/07, Ingles, Raymond <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:
>
> > From: Joseph Vartanian
>
> > *  The software firewall is now bi-directional
> > *  IPSec and domain isolation are now integrated into the firewall
> > *  IE now runs in Protected mode (sandboxed)
>
>  Somewhat better security out of the box, okay. I don't see much that couldn't
> be done with 3rd-party stuff before, though. All the rest that you mention are
> really only useful for corporate management. End users won't care about that
> stuff. Still surprising that it took that long just to get that stuff.

You're right.  While this stuff is important to IT people, most users
wouldn't care.  But lets be completely honest here.  End users want to
be able to browse the web, listen to music, watch videos, type a few
documents, chat with their 5,000 myspace friends, and do it all with a
pretty GUI.  Everything else only matters to people like us.

If you look at it that way then Vista, OSX and various Linux distros
already have everything they need in an OS.  No matter what anybody
adds to an OS, it doesn't matter.  So now can somebody name anything
in Vista that most end users really need that MS didn't already give
them?  Same goes for Linux...what does Ubuntu lack that end users
really need?  Nothing.  Good marketing just makes end users just want
more features that they'll never use.

And in reality, many companies are reluctant to go with Vista because
they think it's too different for their employees (training issues).
What if MS had made even more changes.

-Joseph


From jvartanian at gmail.com  Wed Jun 27 19:21:35 2007
From: jvartanian at gmail.com (Joseph Vartanian)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 19:21:35 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dd889b430706271621q4c4a2a7ewfcc97a1f5234c1dc@mail.gmail.com>

I just want to say thanks to everyone who replied here.  I'll be
considering everything you all suggested when buying, with the
exception of Michael Corral's suggestion.

-Joseph


From cvweiss at gmail.com  Wed Jun 27 22:16:04 2007
From: cvweiss at gmail.com (Clinton V. Weiss)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 22:16:04 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <dd889b430706271621q4c4a2a7ewfcc97a1f5234c1dc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd889b430706251545m52d36eeu2fad32255737cb37@mail.gmail.com>
	<dd889b430706271621q4c4a2a7ewfcc97a1f5234c1dc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f0e9fe590706271916y2f921f46u936b2f774c352669@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/27/07, Joseph Vartanian <jvartanian at gmail.com> wrote:
> I just want to say thanks to everyone who replied here.  I'll be
> considering everything you all suggested when buying, with the
> exception of Michael Corral's suggestion.


No kidding - I was not happy about that.  I clicked on it while I was
at work!  Luckily no one happened to be around.


-- 
Clinton V. Weiss
cvweiss at gmail.com


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Jun 28 00:07:41 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 00:07:41 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Office 2007 overhead
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706272107p73b3a2d2n40972fbaace3a98e@mail.gmail.com>

I was attempting to install Office Ultimate 2007 DVD on XP in VMWare.
I didn't have enough space  so I started disabling options.  After
setting EVERYTHING to "Not Available" it still needs 791MB.  With
everything set to "Run from My Computer" it wants 1867MB.  Full OOo +
Java 1.6 totals 328MB.  Why does Office need that much space?  Is the
EULA that big?


From zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 28 01:50:01 2007
From: zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com (M. D. Krauss)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 01:50:01 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
In-Reply-To: <dd889b430706271609v7ed88b18jd4a7924b29e82f44@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd889b430706270831o3638c6a9hf3e14dcc78ca45c@mail.gmail.com>
	<41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33E04@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<dd889b430706271609v7ed88b18jd4a7924b29e82f44@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070628015001.12cf72dc@tessa.long>

On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 19:09:37 -0400
"Joseph Vartanian" <jvartanian at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 6/27/07, Ingles, Raymond <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:
> >
> > > From: Joseph Vartanian
> >
> > > *  The software firewall is now bi-directional
> > > *  IPSec and domain isolation are now integrated into the firewall
> > > *  IE now runs in Protected mode (sandboxed)
> >
> >  Somewhat better security out of the box, okay. I don't see much
> > that couldn't be done with 3rd-party stuff before, though. All the
> > rest that you mention are really only useful for corporate
> > management. End users won't care about that stuff. Still surprising
> > that it took that long just to get that stuff.
> 
> You're right.  While this stuff is important to IT people, most users
> wouldn't care.  But lets be completely honest here.  End users want to
> be able to browse the web, listen to music, watch videos, type a few
> documents, chat with their 5,000 myspace friends, and do it all with a
> pretty GUI.  Everything else only matters to people like us.

Yes, but in terms of adoption, what matters to corporate management is
what matters to the market.  People are most comfortable using a system
that they already know, and most people learn what they need on the job.

> If you look at it that way then Vista, OSX and various Linux distros
> already have everything they need in an OS.  No matter what anybody
> adds to an OS, it doesn't matter.  So now can somebody name anything
> in Vista that most end users really need that MS didn't already give
> them?  Same goes for Linux...what does Ubuntu lack that end users
> really need?  Nothing.  Good marketing just makes end users just want
> more features that they'll never use.

Hmm... Ubuntu (and others) lacks support for high-end games. Vista and
XP lack real stability and security.  I know someone will say that the
average user doesn't care about stability and security, but they do
when their computer starts crashing.  We really need a jazzier word for
it.  Something like "nocrashocity!"

> And in reality, many companies are reluctant to go with Vista because
> they think it's too different for their employees (training issues).
> What if MS had made even more changes.

Yes, but they will be forced to upgrade eventually.  In this light,
Vista is a great opportunity for GNU/Linux, if the message can get out.
"Tired of being forced in to massive organization-wide upgrades?
Upgrade just one more time, to *whatever-flavor* GNU/Linux, and be
done; or upgrade to Vista -- and then in a few more years do it all
again."

Matthew


From amajorov at sbcglobal.net  Thu Jun 28 07:39:15 2007
From: amajorov at sbcglobal.net (allen)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 07:39:15 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
In-Reply-To: <20070628015001.12cf72dc@tessa.long>
References: <dd889b430706270831o3638c6a9hf3e14dcc78ca45c@mail.gmail.com>	<41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33E04@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<dd889b430706271609v7ed88b18jd4a7924b29e82f44@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070628015001.12cf72dc@tessa.long>
Message-ID: <46839DE3.1060405@sbcglobal.net>

M. D. Krauss wrote:
> Yes, but in terms of adoption, what matters to corporate management is
> what matters to the market.  People are most comfortable using a system
> that they already know, and most people learn what they need on the job.
>
>   
The importance of the corporate market certainly was crucial to 
Microsoft's success and it'll continue to be an important source of 
revenue. But just like the mainframe market diminished in importance 
relative to the entire computer market, leaving IBM with a largely 
irrelevant effective monopoly on the mainframe market, Microsoft's 
corporate market will become a small enough part of the computer 
industry to lose its industry-controlling power. It's already happened.

Microsoft is a non-participant or just another competitor in several 
markets they sought to crack: set-top boxes, game machines, cell phones, 
the entire embedded market, the PDA market. They're trying desperately 
not to be left out of the po' folks computer market but provided the 
OLPC doesn't end up as a gigantic fiasco, they won't win there either. 
And, that last is a market that Microsoft can't justify without 
abandoning its business model. Profit margins are, by MS standards, too 
low to be interesting.
> Hmm... Ubuntu (and others) lacks support for high-end games. Vista and
> XP lack real stability and security.  I know someone will say that the
> average user doesn't care about stability and security, but they do
> when their computer starts crashing.  We really need a jazzier word for
> it.  Something like "nocrashocity!"
>
>   
FOSS advertising, such as it is, is pretty lame. But how much does that 
really matter? The absence of the profit motive takes away much of the 
urgency that's common to the corporate world. Without that the need for 
big hits just evaporates since it's important to look like a winner 
almost as much as it is to be a winner.

Get it right, get it wrong, who cares? The board of directors isn't 
going to chuck you out if development stalls at the .9.0.12 release and 
you can't ship in time for the crucial Christmas season. No options to 
vest and stock price to worry about. If you screw up bad enough the 
worst thing that can happen is your code is forked. I don't think too 
many people'll jump off a bridge over that.
> Yes, but they will be forced to upgrade eventually.  In this light,
> Vista is a great opportunity for GNU/Linux, if the message can get out.
> "Tired of being forced in to massive organization-wide upgrades?
> Upgrade just one more time, to *whatever-flavor* GNU/Linux, and be
> done; or upgrade to Vista -- and then in a few more years do it all
> again."
>
>   
Sure they, the corporate world, will be forced to upgrade. That lock-in 
that Microsoft tries to apply to every market doesn't bite any harder 
then it does in the corporate world. But outside that market the 
attraction of Windows lies mainly in the absence of alternatives.

That's an advantage that's eroding by the day and Microsoft is aware of 
it. Evidence some of their more pathetic, not to mention unsuccessful, 
attempts at sewing FUD. The corporate buyers don't need to be frightened 
and the home buyers can't be frightened but what else does MS have to 
defend itself? There's the attempt to use the patent system to throttle 
FOSS but that doesn't seem to have had quite the legs it was originally 
feared so no help there. They sure can't compete on price, although 
they're trying with some very aggressive pricing in foreign markets and 
to foreign governments.

It's not all that obvious what Microsoft hopes to accomplish in many of 
the foreign markets it's trying to buy with low pricing. It's not as if 
you can force some African subsistence farmer to upgrade to Vista++ and 
Office 2012 for a couple of hundred bucks because he won't have backward 
compatibility.

Allen


From radkins at impelind.com  Thu Jun 28 09:49:02 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 09:49:02 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
In-Reply-To: <dd889b430706271609v7ed88b18jd4a7924b29e82f44@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd889b430706270831o3638c6a9hf3e14dcc78ca45c@mail.gmail.com>	<41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33E04@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<dd889b430706271609v7ed88b18jd4a7924b29e82f44@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4683BC4E.4030007@impelind.com>

Joseph Vartanian said the following on 6/27/2007 7:09 PM:
>
> And in reality, many companies are reluctant to go with Vista because
> they think it's too different for their employees (training issues).
> What if MS had made even more changes.
>
> -Joseph
>
>   

    This, I completely agree with. The changes to the GUI and basic 
programs, like Search, File Browsing and such would provide me with a 
pounding ache in the head around these parts.

    I don't mind the need to upgrade/replace portions of an OS. I really 
dislike the bizarre need to radically redesign the GUI every other 
iteration of an OS. What they need to do is provide the option of 
running an old "themed" interface that could benefit from modern 
graphical enhancements.

    Thus, someone could be running a "Win 3.1" Desktop with 32-bit 
graphical icons, transparency and all the rest of the graphical hoo-hah 
that's available, while still maintaining near 100% familiarity with the 
locations of everything they are used to using.

    -Rob


From danno at umich.edu  Thu Jun 28 10:53:22 2007
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 10:53:22 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] SUSPECT: RE:  OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <20070627150752.657ed3af@tessa.long>
References: <4681374C.4020506@comcast.net>
	<B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E203124909@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
	<20070627152317.GB15355@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<20070627150752.657ed3af@tessa.long>
Message-ID: <20070628145322.GB38963@maniac.deathstar.org>

On Wed, Jun 27, 2007 at 03:07:52PM -0400, M. D. Krauss wrote:
> Yeah, this is why I keep wind-up LED flashlights around.

Can you recommend one that's stood the test of time?  My paranoid
friend bought a bunch of wind-up flashlights before y2k for his
place up north.  none of them lasted through 2001.

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Thu Jun 28 11:16:43 2007
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 11:16:43 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Surface computing...
In-Reply-To: <20070626160236.M77530@wowway.com>
References: <20070626160236.M77530@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380706280816n6fd7d698q470550af505aeba1@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/26/07, ebradley01 at wowway.com wrote:


> The following video clip (link below) portrays a technology that is being
> developed (though not necessarily discovered/pioneered) by Microsoft.

Here's a funny parody video that manages to make some REALLY good
points beyond the snark.  The link's from the "Windows Secrets"
newsletter, which has become increasingly MS-bashing of late...
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZrr7AZ9nCY>

-- Mikey


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Thu Jun 28 11:24:30 2007
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 11:24:30 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] I paid $400 for WHAT?
Message-ID: <b67fb0380706280824g693a05c9y7171e9f63a443989@mail.gmail.com>

More "cracks in the Evil Empire" to report.

The "Windows Secrets" newsletter reports that "Windows Vista Ultimate"
purchasers are becoming increasingly restive over Microsoft's failure
to deliver the promised "extras" that were supposed to justify the
outrageous price...
<http://WindowsSecrets.com/comp/070628/#story1>

-- Mikey


From radkins at impelind.com  Thu Jun 28 11:24:32 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 11:24:32 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Surface computing...
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380706280816n6fd7d698q470550af505aeba1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070626160236.M77530@wowway.com>
	<b67fb0380706280816n6fd7d698q470550af505aeba1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4683D2B0.8080907@impelind.com>

Michael Rudas said the following on 6/28/2007 11:16 AM:
> On 6/26/07, ebradley01 at wowway.com wrote:
>
>
>   
>> The following video clip (link below) portrays a technology that is being
>> developed (though not necessarily discovered/pioneered) by Microsoft.
>>     
>
> Here's a funny parody video that manages to make some REALLY good
> points beyond the snark.  The link's from the "Windows Secrets"
> newsletter, which has become increasingly MS-bashing of late...
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZrr7AZ9nCY>
>
> -- Mikey
>
>   
    Those are seriously funny.

    I certainly couldn't have done better myself.

    -Rob


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Jun 28 11:26:06 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 11:26:06 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Surface computing...
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380706280816n6fd7d698q470550af505aeba1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070626160236.M77530@wowway.com>
	<b67fb0380706280816n6fd7d698q470550af505aeba1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706280826k6bec3103hbe391cd62ae13aac@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/28/07, Michael Rudas <audiotech50 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Here's a funny parody video that manages to make some REALLY good
> points beyond the snark.  The link's from the "Windows Secrets"
> newsletter, which has become increasingly MS-bashing of late...
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZrr7AZ9nCY>

That was awesome!  ROFLMAO


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Thu Jun 28 15:22:02 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 15:22:02 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
In-Reply-To: <20070628015001.12cf72dc@tessa.long>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33E0A@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>


> From: M. D. Krauss

> Yes, but in terms of adoption, what matters to corporate management is
> what matters to the market.  People are most comfortable using a system
> that they already know, and most people learn what they need on the job.

 Fortunately, MS is playing catch-up to features Unix and Linux have had
for decades.

> > If you look at it that way then Vista, OSX and various Linux distros
> > already have everything they need in an OS.

 And this is why corporate desktop Linux makes a great deal of sense.
For most users, it already has everything it needs, and the price is
very nice. The main sticking point is MS Office, but their grip there
is weakening, too.

 I'm not saying Linux is taking over tomorrow. But I like the trendlines
I can see.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                             (313) 227-2317

 A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. 
 Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
 A: Top-posting.
 Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. 


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Thu Jun 28 15:29:27 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 15:29:27 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
In-Reply-To: <4683BC4E.4030007@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33E0B@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>


> From: Robert Adkins

>     Thus, someone could be running a "Win 3.1" Desktop with 32-bit 
> graphical icons, transparency and all the rest of the graphical hoo-hah 
> that's available, while still maintaining near 100% familiarity with the 
> locations of everything they are used to using.

 Well, to be fair, that's kind of hard to do when your GUI is tied into your
OS so deeply. It can even be difficult to run a really old Linux desktop
environment on a new kernel, though Linux handles this far better.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                   (313) 227-2317

 "There is no limit to the good you can do if you don't care
         who gets the credit." - George C. Marshall

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. 


From zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 28 15:30:36 2007
From: zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com (M. D. Krauss)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 15:30:36 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] SUSPECT: RE:  OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <20070628145322.GB38963@maniac.deathstar.org>
References: <4681374C.4020506@comcast.net>
	<B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E203124909@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
	<20070627152317.GB15355@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<20070627150752.657ed3af@tessa.long>
	<20070628145322.GB38963@maniac.deathstar.org>
Message-ID: <20070628153036.5fcf6745@tessa.long>

On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 10:53:22 -0400
Dan Pritts <danno at umich.edu> wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 27, 2007 at 03:07:52PM -0400, M. D. Krauss wrote:
> > Yeah, this is why I keep wind-up LED flashlights around.
> 
> Can you recommend one that's stood the test of time?  My paranoid
> friend bought a bunch of wind-up flashlights before y2k for his
> place up north.  none of them lasted through 2001.

This is not something that I had considered.  I've had these for
probably over a year and they work fine so far, but that's not exactly
a long time. They are DuraPROs.  Came in a pack of two at Costco, good
price as I recall. They look kind of like Star Trek phasers or
something.  They are good for computer work as the handle that charges
them also makes for a decent prop.

There is a sticker on them that says "IMPORTANT: For optimum
performance it is recommended that you charge the light by winding the
handle for one minute at least once every 3 months even if the
flashlight or flashers are not in use."  Maybe this is why your friends
flashlights died?  Kind of like if you don't start your car for a
while.

More recently I have noticed a similar model available with a built in
radio.  That seems like a great idea.

If anyone else has better information on this, I would love to know.

Matthew


From danno at umich.edu  Thu Jun 28 15:34:59 2007
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 15:34:59 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] SUSPECT: RE:  OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <20070628153036.5fcf6745@tessa.long>
References: <4681374C.4020506@comcast.net>
	<B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E203124909@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
	<20070627152317.GB15355@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<20070627150752.657ed3af@tessa.long>
	<20070628145322.GB38963@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<20070628153036.5fcf6745@tessa.long>
Message-ID: <20070628193459.GA2245@maniac.deathstar.org>

On Thu, Jun 28, 2007 at 03:30:36PM -0400, M. D. Krauss wrote:
> There is a sticker on them that says "IMPORTANT: For optimum
> performance it is recommended that you charge the light by winding the
> handle for one minute at least once every 3 months even if the
> flashlight or flashers are not in use."  Maybe this is why your friends
> flashlights died?  Kind of like if you don't start your car for a
> while.

Nope, they were used pretty regularly (they spend a lot of time up
north, even in the winter) and physically wore out/broke after not
a very long time.

I wonder whether they had batteries or capacitors.

batteries would explain the 3 month recharge - and also limits their
lifetime to the shelf life of the batteries (dunno how long you can
expect from nimh's but more than a year or two).  I know capacitors
can die too - can anyone say whether they die from just sitting there?

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From escalated at gmail.com  Thu Jun 28 15:43:44 2007
From: escalated at gmail.com (merc)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 15:43:44 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Novell server replacement
Message-ID: <9852fbe30706281243i478d7d56u5e014eb3f459a903@mail.gmail.com>

Hi -

Here at work we have a pretty old novell server that we're worried may
be on its last legs.  We are thinking moving some of the services it
provides to a linux box, but after I leave I want other people to be
able to manage these services through a nice interface(web based would
be nice, but, whatever.).

I want to replace just the fileserver portion right now - it's what
seems the most critical(besides some proprietary novell database stuff
-- revelation and paradox iirc)

So, my question is, can anyone recommend something that has a nice,
easy to use interface - just for file server configuration at the
moment, but something that took care of much more would be nice.

I've looked at GOsa http://www.gosa-project.org/ but that wont even
install unless I have LDAP setup.

Any suggestions are appreciated.

-Merrick


From millerc at cantonpl.org  Thu Jun 28 15:53:26 2007
From: millerc at cantonpl.org (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 15:53:26 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Novell server replacement
In-Reply-To: <9852fbe30706281243i478d7d56u5e014eb3f459a903@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9852fbe30706281243i478d7d56u5e014eb3f459a903@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50159.66.51.146.97.1183060406.squirrel@mail.cantonpl.org>

merc wrote:
> Here at work we have a pretty old novell server that we're worried may
> be on its last legs.  We are thinking moving some of the services it
> provides to a linux box, but after I leave I want other people to be
> able to manage these services through a nice interface(web based would
> be nice, but, whatever.).
>
> I want to replace just the fileserver portion right now - it's what
> seems the most critical(besides some proprietary novell database stuff
> -- revelation and paradox iirc)
>
> So, my question is, can anyone recommend something that has a nice,
> easy to use interface - just for file server configuration at the
> moment, but something that took care of much more would be nice.

This must sound like a dumb question, but have you considered
Novell?  The latest version of Novell runs on Linux.  So anyone
with Linux experience will feel at home.  It also is Novell, so
you should have no problem with keeping your current users and
permissions on filesystems.  You would also have minimal recon-
figuration of desktops and little if any user training.  And
Novell includes web-based management tools that covers more
than just the filesystems.  Is there a reason that you don't
want to go that route?

c





From zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 28 15:51:56 2007
From: zeros0and1ones at yahoo.com (M. D. Krauss)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 15:51:56 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33E0B@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <4683BC4E.4030007@impelind.com>
	<41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33E0B@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <20070628155156.031d457a@tessa.long>

On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 15:29:27 -0400
"Ingles, Raymond" <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:

> 
> > From: Robert Adkins
> 
> >     Thus, someone could be running a "Win 3.1" Desktop with 32-bit 
> > graphical icons, transparency and all the rest of the graphical
> > hoo-hah that's available, while still maintaining near 100%
> > familiarity with the locations of everything they are used to using.
> 
>  Well, to be fair, that's kind of hard to do when your GUI is tied
> into your OS so deeply. It can even be difficult to run a really old
> Linux desktop environment on a new kernel, though Linux handles this
> far better.

It can? I don't get it.  TWM or FVWM or whatnot are still being used by
many people.  Maybe I am misunderstanding, can you give an example of a
"really old Linux desktop environment"?

Thanks,
Matthew


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Jun 28 16:04:49 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 16:04:49 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] SUSPECT: RE: OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <20070628193459.GA2245@maniac.deathstar.org>
References: <4681374C.4020506@comcast.net>
	<B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E203124909@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
	<20070627152317.GB15355@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<20070627150752.657ed3af@tessa.long>
	<20070628145322.GB38963@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<20070628153036.5fcf6745@tessa.long>
	<20070628193459.GA2245@maniac.deathstar.org>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706281304t6256ece7nd045ce453751c46c@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/28/07, Dan Pritts <danno at umich.edu> wrote:
> can anyone say whether they die from just sitting there?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel-cadmium_battery#Cell_reversal


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Thu Jun 28 16:07:56 2007
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 16:07:56 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] WinVista Ultimate = unrest
Message-ID: <b67fb0380706281307n54e961c1r5c57d1a4e2dfe091@mail.gmail.com>

More "cracks in the Evil Empire" to report.

The "Windows Secrets" newsletter reports that "Windows Vista Ultimate"
purchasers are becoming increasingly restive over Microsoft's failure
to deliver the promised "Extras" that were supposed to justify the
outrageous price...
<http://WindowsSecrets.com/comp/070628/#story1>

-- Mikey


From micorral at comcast.net  Thu Jun 28 16:14:15 2007
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 20:14:15 +0000
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
Message-ID: <062820072014.9247.4684169700015D200000241F2209229927040E9D9D010C0703@comcast.net>

M. D. Krauss a ecrit:
> "Ingles, Raymond" wrote:
> > It can even be difficult to run a really old
> > Linux desktop environment on a new kernel, though Linux handles this
> > far better.
> 
> It can? I don't get it.  TWM or FVWM or whatnot are still being used by
> many people.  Maybe I am misunderstanding, can you give an example of a
> "really old Linux desktop environment"?

Sure. Triteal CDE for Linux. It doesn't work with xorg 7.2, at least on my machine (Fedora 7).
It worked with earlier versions of xorg. In general, a lot of old libc5-based apps don't work
anymore, even with the libc5-compat stuff installed. :(

Michael


From escalated at gmail.com  Thu Jun 28 16:30:06 2007
From: escalated at gmail.com (merc)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 16:30:06 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Novell server replacement
In-Reply-To: <50159.66.51.146.97.1183060406.squirrel@mail.cantonpl.org>
References: <9852fbe30706281243i478d7d56u5e014eb3f459a903@mail.gmail.com>
	<50159.66.51.146.97.1183060406.squirrel@mail.cantonpl.org>
Message-ID: <9852fbe30706281330y2e06d550ic77a058de4271ea6@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/28/07, Carl T. Miller <millerc at cantonpl.org> wrote:
> merc wrote:
> > Here at work we have a pretty old novell server that we're worried may
<snip>
> This must sound like a dumb question, but have you considered
> Novell?  The latest version of Novell runs on Linux.  So anyone
> with Linux experience will feel at home.  It also is Novell, so
> you should have no problem with keeping your current users and
> permissions on filesystems.  You would also have minimal recon-
> figuration of desktops and little if any user training.  And
> Novell includes web-based management tools that covers more
> than just the filesystems.  Is there a reason that you don't
> want to go that route?
>
> c
>

I'm trying to stay away from Novell for now because our current
systems administrator has everything tied into the novell server
currently, and is the only one who knows how to work with and repair
these ancient databases.

Moving away from novell would (i think) be better so we can migrate
these databases to something that in case of hardware failure, isnt
totally inaccessible.(somehow the licenses for these databases are
tied to the hardware, from what im told)

The idea has been tossed around a bit, and im sure the current sys
admin would love to keep it that way. I'm trying to look to the future
when, oh, say he moves to mexico without notice and the company has to
bring in an outside company at $800/hr to migrate all this stuff.


From danno at umich.edu  Thu Jun 28 16:40:34 2007
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 16:40:34 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] SUSPECT: RE: OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90706281304t6256ece7nd045ce453751c46c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4681374C.4020506@comcast.net>
	<B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E203124909@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
	<20070627152317.GB15355@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<20070627150752.657ed3af@tessa.long>
	<20070628145322.GB38963@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<20070628153036.5fcf6745@tessa.long>
	<20070628193459.GA2245@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<b02c40e90706281304t6256ece7nd045ce453751c46c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070628204034.GB12246@maniac.deathstar.org>

On Thu, Jun 28, 2007 at 04:04:49PM -0400, Jeff Hanson wrote:
> On 6/28/07, Dan Pritts <danno at umich.edu> wrote:
> > can anyone say whether they die from just sitting there?
> 
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel-cadmium_battery#Cell_reversal

my question was about capacitors, not batteries.  

clearly, batteries die just sitting there.

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From millerc at cantonpl.org  Thu Jun 28 16:40:25 2007
From: millerc at cantonpl.org (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 16:40:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Novell server replacement
In-Reply-To: <9852fbe30706281330y2e06d550ic77a058de4271ea6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9852fbe30706281243i478d7d56u5e014eb3f459a903@mail.gmail.com>
	<50159.66.51.146.97.1183060406.squirrel@mail.cantonpl.org>
	<9852fbe30706281330y2e06d550ic77a058de4271ea6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55459.66.51.146.97.1183063225.squirrel@mail.cantonpl.org>

merc wrote:
> I'm trying to stay away from Novell for now because our current
> systems administrator has everything tied into the novell server
> currently, and is the only one who knows how to work with and repair
> these ancient databases.

Yeah, databases work that way.  However, your user base
and the permissions on your filesystems might be worth
keeping.  I think your issues with the databases will be
identical whether you go with Novell or something else
for a new file server.

> Moving away from novell would (i think) be better so we can migrate
> these databases to something that in case of hardware failure, isnt
> totally inaccessible.(somehow the licenses for these databases are
> tied to the hardware, from what im told)

Again, the real issue is migrating the databases.  You'll
have the same problems whether you're on Novell or something
else.

> The idea has been tossed around a bit, and im sure the current sys
> admin would love to keep it that way. I'm trying to look to the future
> when, oh, say he moves to mexico without notice and the company has to
> bring in an outside company at $800/hr to migrate all this stuff.

Yeah.  I would find out exactly what resources are being used
and how.  And I would treat the migration of the databases
as a separate project that the migration to a new file server,
although both could happen at the same time.

c




From escalated at gmail.com  Thu Jun 28 16:45:24 2007
From: escalated at gmail.com (merc)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 16:45:24 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Novell server replacement
In-Reply-To: <55459.66.51.146.97.1183063225.squirrel@mail.cantonpl.org>
References: <9852fbe30706281243i478d7d56u5e014eb3f459a903@mail.gmail.com>
	<50159.66.51.146.97.1183060406.squirrel@mail.cantonpl.org>
	<9852fbe30706281330y2e06d550ic77a058de4271ea6@mail.gmail.com>
	<55459.66.51.146.97.1183063225.squirrel@mail.cantonpl.org>
Message-ID: <9852fbe30706281345g37b07f25nfe046cc4f5d61bce@mail.gmail.com>

> Yeah.  I would find out exactly what resources are being used
> and how.  And I would treat the migration of the databases
> as a separate project that the migration to a new file server,
> although both could happen at the same time.
>

That was the plan, to start out with the fileserver part, and maybe
(if possible?) the part that will map printers and drives to the
computer, the databases we will worry about later.


From bobdion at starline-ent.com  Thu Jun 28 16:48:51 2007
From: bobdion at starline-ent.com (bob dion)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 16:48:51 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Novell server replacement
In-Reply-To: <9852fbe30706281243i478d7d56u5e014eb3f459a903@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9852fbe30706281243i478d7d56u5e014eb3f459a903@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46841EB3.1040604@starline-ent.com>

merc wrote:
> Hi -
> 
> So, my question is, can anyone recommend something that has a nice,
> easy to use interface - just for file server configuration at the
> moment, but something that took care of much more would be nice.
> 
>

There is webmin that will run on any Linux distro.

http://www.webmin.com

BD


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Jun 28 16:52:46 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 16:52:46 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] SUSPECT: RE: OT: DIY Geek Tools
In-Reply-To: <20070628204034.GB12246@maniac.deathstar.org>
References: <4681374C.4020506@comcast.net>
	<B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E203124909@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
	<20070627152317.GB15355@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<20070627150752.657ed3af@tessa.long>
	<20070628145322.GB38963@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<20070628153036.5fcf6745@tessa.long>
	<20070628193459.GA2245@maniac.deathstar.org>
	<b02c40e90706281304t6256ece7nd045ce453751c46c@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070628204034.GB12246@maniac.deathstar.org>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706281352w44aabd03l906387fe0866c13a@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/28/07, Dan Pritts <danno at umich.edu> wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 28, 2007 at 04:04:49PM -0400, Jeff Hanson wrote:
> > On 6/28/07, Dan Pritts <danno at umich.edu> wrote:
> > > can anyone say whether they die from just sitting there?
> >
> > en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel-cadmium_battery#Cell_reversal
>
> my question was about capacitors, not batteries.

All caps will self-discharge over time but it doesn't cause damage.
Only the old paper-based caps had a limited life because the
electrolyte would dry out.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Jun 28 23:51:22 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 23:51:22 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Presidential candidates on FOSS
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706282051o17dad9eco5c1f280f82e45a3f@mail.gmail.com>

It's not the war, economy, environment, or health care, stupid.
What's in YOUR server?
http://www.douglaskarr.com/2007/06/23/2008-elections-by-server/


From jvartanian at gmail.com  Fri Jun 29 01:26:53 2007
From: jvartanian at gmail.com (Joseph Vartanian)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 01:26:53 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Presidential candidates on FOSS
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90706282051o17dad9eco5c1f280f82e45a3f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e90706282051o17dad9eco5c1f280f82e45a3f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dd889b430706282226v75c17bden203cb6b72217cd43@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/28/07, Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com> wrote:
> It's not the war, economy, environment, or health care, stupid.
> What's in YOUR server?
> http://www.douglaskarr.com/2007/06/23/2008-elections-by-server/

Yes, it's true.  The Democrats tend to run their sites on Linux or
FreeBSD, and the Republicans tend to run their web sites on Windows.
This actually all started back in the 2000 election when Al Gore
intentionally picked Linux/Apache on VA Linux hardware to run his web
site as a show of support for the OSS community.  Bush's site ran on
Windows/IIS.  Whether or not Bush's choice was intentional or not
wasn't something that was made public, but it's no secret that he was
a supporter of MS during its antitrust trial.  It's also no secret
that his DOJ was responsible for letting MS off the hook after it had
lost in court.

I do remember that their choice of server software got a lot of
attention from the tech crowd...it got my attention.  Ever since then
Democrats tend to go with Linux, and Republicans with Microsoft.
Personally I think that after 7 years and with so much dominance for
each OS based on party, it's pretty easy to argue that much of this is
intentional now.  You don't get numbers like that for such a long time
by chance.  Isn't it funny how absolutely everything in the world is
involved in politic somehow?

-Joseph


From freemancomputer at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 29 03:52:59 2007
From: freemancomputer at yahoo.com (jack freeman)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 00:52:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel panic
Message-ID: <267792.90131.qm@web55501.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

I tried RAM from another box and it still locked up and it also gave me the kernel panic. Im running a Lan Party NF2 MoBo and it looks like the BIOS is v6.00PG. 
Thanks
Jack

----- Original Message ----
From: - <otakurider at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 8:10:19 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Kernel panic

I had this problem with a system and it turned out to be memory chips not seated.  I reseated and never had a problem after.

 

Pat



 

On 6/26/07, jack freeman <freemancomputer at yahoo.com> wrote:


I am having a prblom with my web server booting. At times when it trys to boot i get a "kernel panic - not syncing: fatal exception in interrupt". When it does boot it has a rather bad habit of locking up. I am running Mandravia 
2007.1. Any ideas?

Jack




Building a website is a piece of cake. 
Yahoo! Small Business gives you 
all the tools to get online.

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org

http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug






       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.
http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow  
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070629/09e8cf40/attachment-0001.html>

From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Fri Jun 29 09:47:46 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 09:47:46 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel panic
In-Reply-To: <267792.90131.qm@web55501.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33E0D@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: jack freeman

> I tried RAM from another box and it still locked up and it also gave me the
> kernel panic. Im running a Lan Party NF2 MoBo and it looks like the BIOS is v6.00PG. 

Repeated kernel panics tend to be a sign of hardware issues. Some things
to try:

 0. If there are BIOS updates, apply them.

 1. Unplug and reseat *everything*. If contacts on RAM or cables look at
    all corroded, a pencil eraser can clean them pretty well.

 2. Check temperatures, make sure fans are spinning and there's decent
    airflow.

 3. Disable features, and see if things stabilize. If so, start re-enabling
    features until things break again.
    a. Some things to try disabling: ACPI, APIC, fast IDE/SATA modes, etc.
       For ideas, look here: http://tldp.org/HOWTO/BootPrompt-HOWTO.html
      ...especially sections 3 and 4.
    b. Also, try disabling high-speed modes for the video card.

 Once things are stabilized, try compiling the Linux kernel over and over.
If you can get 24 hours of that without a panic or a signal 11, you can be
nearly certain the problem is resolved.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                                     (313) 227-2317

 "There is no distinction in nature between microevolution and macroevolution.
 Macroevolution is just larger quantities of microevolution over much longer
 times. It's like saying that there's 'microwalking' which is what I do from
 the car park to the office every morning, and down to the shops on weekends,
 and that can result in changes of my location over time on a small scale; but
 the idea that people, over tens of thousands of years, walked out of central
 Africa into Europe, then over to Asia, across to North America and into South
 America - that's 'macrowalking' and it's impossible. God must have put them
                        there." - Anthony Steele

-----Original Message-----
Thanks
Jack


----- Original Message ----
From: - <otakurider at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 8:10:19 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Kernel panic


I had this problem with a system and it turned out to be memory chips not seated.  I reseated and never had a problem after.

Pat


 
On 6/26/07, jack freeman <freemancomputer at yahoo.com> wrote: 
I am having a prblom with my web server booting. At times when it trys to boot i get a "kernel panic - not syncing: fatal exception in interrupt". When it does boot it has a rather bad habit of locking up. I am running Mandravia 2007.1. Any ideas?

Jack




Building a website is a piece of cake. 
Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org 
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug





Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. 

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. 


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 29 10:14:50 2007
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 07:14:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Finding CD-ROM
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33E0D@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <482953.59106.qm@web37913.mail.mud.yahoo.com>



"Ingles, Raymond" <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:  > From: jack freeman

> I tried RAM from another box and it still locked up and it also gave me the
> kernel panic. Im running a Lan Party NF2 MoBo and it looks like the BIOS is v6.00PG. 

Repeated kernel panics tend to be a sign of hardware issues. Some things
to try:

0. If there are BIOS updates, apply them.

1. Unplug and reseat *everything*. If contacts on RAM or cables look at
all corroded, a pencil eraser can clean them pretty well.

2. Check temperatures, make sure fans are spinning and there's decent
airflow.

3. Disable features, and see if things stabilize. If so, start re-enabling
features until things break again.
a. Some things to try disabling: ACPI, APIC, fast IDE/SATA modes, etc.
For ideas, look here: http://tldp.org/HOWTO/BootPrompt-HOWTO.html
...especially sections 3 and 4.
b. Also, try disabling high-speed modes for the video card.

Once things are stabilized, try compiling the Linux kernel over and over.
If you can get 24 hours of that without a panic or a signal 11, you can be
nearly certain the problem is resolved.

Sincerely,

Ray Ingles (313) 227-2317

"There is no distinction in nature between microevolution and macroevolution.
Macroevolution is just larger quantities of microevolution over much longer
times. It's like saying that there's 'microwalking' which is what I do from
the car park to the office every morning, and down to the shops on weekends,
and that can result in changes of my location over time on a small scale; but
the idea that people, over tens of thousands of years, walked out of central
Africa into Europe, then over to Asia, across to North America and into South
America - that's 'macrowalking' and it's impossible. God must have put them
there." - Anthony Steele

-----Original Message-----
Thanks
Jack


----- Original Message ----
From: - 
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list 
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 8:10:19 AM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Kernel panic


I had this problem with a system and it turned out to be memory chips not seated. I reseated and never had a problem after.

Pat



On 6/26/07, jack freeman wrote: 
I am having a prblom with my web server booting. At times when it trys to boot i get a "kernel panic - not syncing: fatal exception in interrupt". When it does boot it has a rather bad habit of locking up. I am running Mandravia 2007.1. Any ideas?

Jack




Building a website is a piece of cake. 
Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org 
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug





Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. 

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. 
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


       
---------------------------------
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070629/4ad578b4/attachment-0001.html>

From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 29 10:16:42 2007
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 07:16:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Finding CD-ROM
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33E0D@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <470088.34485.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Sorry, 
   
  Here is my question:  
   
  I'm loading Suse 10.1 on a box that I built. While loading it cant find the cd-rom of the dvd.
   
  Does any body know what to look for.
   
  David C. Lane 
   

       
---------------------------------
Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070629/23f68c41/attachment-0001.html>

From millerc at cantonpl.org  Fri Jun 29 10:27:41 2007
From: millerc at cantonpl.org (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 10:27:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Finding CD-ROM
In-Reply-To: <470088.34485.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33E0D@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<470088.34485.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <24933.66.51.146.97.1183127261.squirrel@mail.cantonpl.org>

David Lane wrote:
>   I'm loading Suse 10.1 on a box that I built. While loading it cant find
> the cd-rom of the dvd.
>
>   Does any body know what to look for.

I know this can happen if you have a SATA cd or dvd drive.
If it is SATA, try doing a Google search to see if someone
has a good fix for SuSE.

c




From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 29 10:32:08 2007
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 07:32:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Finding CD-ROM
In-Reply-To: <24933.66.51.146.97.1183127261.squirrel@mail.cantonpl.org>
Message-ID: <145572.70501.qm@web37912.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Are SATA drives harder to deal with?
   
   
  
"Carl T. Miller" <millerc at cantonpl.org> wrote:
  David Lane wrote:
> I'm loading Suse 10.1 on a box that I built. While loading it cant find
> the cd-rom of the dvd.
>
> Does any body know what to look for.

I know this can happen if you have a SATA cd or dvd drive.
If it is SATA, try doing a Google search to see if someone
has a good fix for SuSE.

c


_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


       
---------------------------------
Choose the right car based on your needs.  Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070629/edd99989/attachment-0001.html>

From millerc at cantonpl.org  Fri Jun 29 11:02:13 2007
From: millerc at cantonpl.org (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 11:02:13 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Finding CD-ROM
In-Reply-To: <145572.70501.qm@web37912.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <24933.66.51.146.97.1183127261.squirrel@mail.cantonpl.org>
	<145572.70501.qm@web37912.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <28048.66.51.146.97.1183129333.squirrel@mail.cantonpl.org>

David Lane wrote:
> Are SATA drives harder to deal with?

They're not supposed to be, but sometimes they are.  One
computer I saw has a SATA controller that only works with
hard drives and not with cdroms or dvds.  Usually when
SATA stuff doesn't work as expected it will turn out to
be either weird hardware or the need for a special driver
or a newer kernel.

c




From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 29 11:08:31 2007
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 08:08:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Finding CD-ROM
In-Reply-To: <28048.66.51.146.97.1183129333.squirrel@mail.cantonpl.org>
Message-ID: <201863.83864.qm@web37909.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Could a wierd mother board be a problem?
   
  David 
   
  

"Carl T. Miller" <millerc at cantonpl.org> wrote:
  David Lane wrote:
> Are SATA drives harder to deal with?

They're not supposed to be, but sometimes they are. One
computer I saw has a SATA controller that only works with
hard drives and not with cdroms or dvds. Usually when
SATA stuff doesn't work as expected it will turn out to
be either weird hardware or the need for a special driver
or a newer kernel.

c


_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


       
---------------------------------
Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070629/e859469b/attachment-0001.html>

From millerc at cantonpl.org  Fri Jun 29 11:12:12 2007
From: millerc at cantonpl.org (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 11:12:12 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Finding CD-ROM
In-Reply-To: <201863.83864.qm@web37909.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <28048.66.51.146.97.1183129333.squirrel@mail.cantonpl.org>
	<201863.83864.qm@web37909.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <29294.66.51.146.97.1183129932.squirrel@mail.cantonpl.org>

David Lane wrote:
> Could a wierd mother board be a problem?

Could be.  Try doing a Google search for the motherboard's
part number, Linux, SATA and DVD.  You'll find out if there are
known issues and hopefully you'll also find a fix.

c




From driveray at ameritech.net  Fri Jun 29 11:54:54 2007
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 11:54:54 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Finding CD-ROM
In-Reply-To: <470088.34485.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <470088.34485.qm@web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <46852B4E.9030300@ameritech.net>

David Lane wrote:

> I'm loading Suse 10.1 on a box that I built. While loading it cant find
> the cd-rom of the dvd.
>  
> Does any body know what to look for.
>  
> David C. Lane
>  

I don't know about Suse 10.1, but Opensuse 10.2 installs fine from a
sata DVD drive. It might be the newer kernel, or it might be a different
motherboard. Getting the newer version couldn't hurt.

I take it you mean that the installer starts up, but the install fails
because it can't find the packages, etc on the disk?



From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 29 11:52:04 2007
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 08:52:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Finding CD-ROM
In-Reply-To: <46852B4E.9030300@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <615568.38597.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

The CD/DVD rom is IDE but the HD is SATA and the mother board is and off brand.
   
  I may have to get MSI or ASUS.
   
  David 
  

Raymond McLaughlin <driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
  David Lane wrote:

> I'm loading Suse 10.1 on a box that I built. While loading it cant find
> the cd-rom of the dvd.
> 
> Does any body know what to look for.
> 
> David C. Lane
> 

I don't know about Suse 10.1, but Opensuse 10.2 installs fine from a
sata DVD drive. It might be the newer kernel, or it might be a different
motherboard. Getting the newer version couldn't hurt.

I take it you mean that the installer starts up, but the install fails
because it can't find the packages, etc on the disk?

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


       
---------------------------------
Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070629/51135934/attachment-0001.html>

From cvweiss at gmail.com  Fri Jun 29 12:15:59 2007
From: cvweiss at gmail.com (Clinton V. Weiss)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 12:15:59 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Finding CD-ROM
In-Reply-To: <615568.38597.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <46852B4E.9030300@ameritech.net>
	<615568.38597.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <f0e9fe590706290915m72004366l80675d85f42f0180@mail.gmail.com>

A couple of weeks ago I installed Gentoo on my system with no
problems, until I tried to boot into my installed system.  It could
not find the real_root drive /dev/sda3 (/boot was on /dev/sda1).

I had to recompile the kernel to include the SATA support into the
kernel, not as a module.  Check your grub/lilo boot parameters and see
if real_root is defined.


-- 
Clinton V. Weiss
cvweiss at gmail.com


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Fri Jun 29 15:42:22 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 15:42:22 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel panic
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33E0D@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <267792.90131.qm@web55501.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
	<41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33E0D@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706291242t1c3bab1cm7559f57e09b0efc0@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/29/07, Ingles, Raymond <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:
> Repeated kernel panics tend to be a sign of hardware issues.

I recently had an unstable system that was caused by the Socket 478
CPU coming out of it's socket.  I think the heavy heat sink was
putting uneven pressure on it.


From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 29 16:07:08 2007
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 13:07:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Finding CD-ROM
In-Reply-To: <46852B4E.9030300@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <203631.32294.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

What mother board?
  

Raymond McLaughlin <driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
  David Lane wrote:

> I'm loading Suse 10.1 on a box that I built. While loading it cant find
> the cd-rom of the dvd.
> 
> Does any body know what to look for.
> 
> David C. Lane
> 

I don't know about Suse 10.1, but Opensuse 10.2 installs fine from a
sata DVD drive. It might be the newer kernel, or it might be a different
motherboard. Getting the newer version couldn't hurt.

I take it you mean that the installer starts up, but the install fails
because it can't find the packages, etc on the disk?

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


       
---------------------------------
Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070629/50fb2995/attachment-0001.html>

From rrclark at rrclark.net  Fri Jun 29 16:38:46 2007
From: rrclark at rrclark.net (Rich Clark <rrclark@rrclark.net>)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 16:38:46 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Networking
In-Reply-To: <20070624211610.EBU60299@mirapointms6.wayne.edu>
References: <20070624211610.EBU60299@mirapointms6.wayne.edu>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.0.81.0706291637470.13180@rich.rrclark.net>

On Sun, 24 Jun 2007, David Lee Lambert wrote:

> --- Original message ----
> >Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:03:02 -0400
> >From: Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> 
> >
> >I have a Linux box and an XP box on a peer to peer network.  I want the
> >two to talk as seamlessly as possible.
>
>     To run graphical programs across the network from Windows, install 
> the Cygwin X server, or start a new VNC desktop with "vncserver" and 
> access it with a Windows VNC client.

Here's another good option:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/xming


From rrclark at rrclark.net  Fri Jun 29 16:47:31 2007
From: rrclark at rrclark.net (Rich Clark <rrclark@rrclark.net>)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 16:47:31 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
In-Reply-To: <dd889b430706262158i69392596p2a96d6490bb148d6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4681E727.9050003@comcast.net>
	<dd889b430706262158i69392596p2a96d6490bb148d6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.0.81.0706291646050.13180@rich.rrclark.net>

On Wed, 27 Jun 2007, Joseph Vartanian wrote:
> 
> Just to get you to maybe believe what I'm saying, think about
> this...Why would they need 6 years to develop this OS if all they did
> was to add 3D effect to the GUI and some DRM?  I'm not defending (or
> bashing) Vista...I'm just pointing out that it's not Windows XP 3D
> Edition like most people seem to think.

Ask me to believe in Santa Claus and the Man in the Moon at the same time, 
will you? The problem lies in too few eyeballs on too much code. They 
still rely on backwards compatibility with ancient applications, so they 
couldn't have strayed too far from the original XP code base. Otherwise, 
proof, please?


From rrclark at rrclark.net  Fri Jun 29 17:06:55 2007
From: rrclark at rrclark.net (Rich Clark <rrclark@rrclark.net>)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 17:06:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
In-Reply-To: <dd889b430706270831o3638c6a9hf3e14dcc78ca45c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd889b430706262158i69392596p2a96d6490bb148d6@mail.gmail.com>
	<41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33DFC@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<dd889b430706270831o3638c6a9hf3e14dcc78ca45c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.0.81.0706291703130.13180@rich.rrclark.net>

On Wed, 27 Jun 2007, Joseph Vartanian wrote:

> *  The software firewall is now bi-directional
> *  IPSec and domain isolation are now integrated into the firewall
> *  IE now runs in Protected mode (sandboxed)
> *  Network Access Protection (NAP) allows admins check a machine's
> software for compliance, and only allow access to resources for
> compliant machines, or get non-compliant machine up to compliance.
> *  New image format, WIM, allows for nondestructive and
> hardware-agnostic image based OS deployment
> *  WIM images can be maintained offline (no need to restore them,
> modify them, and create new images like before)
> *  Lot and lots of new Group Policies settings.  I think Microsoft
> said they had over 700 new ones.  For those who don't know what Group
> Policies are, just know that 700 new ones is a huge thing.
> *  Powershell (yes, it's a Unix shell knockoff)
> *  Most admin tasks that used to be don't with the GUI only can now
> also be done via command like (yes, Unix again)
> *  New or improved diagnostics tools
> *  Improved auditing.  For example, Vista can forward critical audit
> data to a central location

I think we know now what MS paid SCO for. So much of this sounds like 
stuff that had been packaged as updates to SCOs legacy UNIX crap.




From tesral at comcast.net  Fri Jun 29 17:35:12 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 17:35:12 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Cracks in the Evil Empire
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.0.81.0706291646050.13180@rich.rrclark.net>
References: <4681E727.9050003@comcast.net>	<dd889b430706262158i69392596p2a96d6490bb148d6@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LRH.0.81.0706291646050.13180@rich.rrclark.net>
Message-ID: <46857B10.4040701@comcast.net>

Rich Clark <rrclark at rrclark.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Jun 2007, Joseph Vartanian wrote:
>   
>> Just to get you to maybe believe what I'm saying, think about
>> this...Why would they need 6 years to develop this OS if all they did
>> was to add 3D effect to the GUI and some DRM?  I'm not defending (or
>> bashing) Vista...I'm just pointing out that it's not Windows XP 3D
>> Edition like most people seem to think.
>>     
>
> Ask me to believe in Santa Claus and the Man in the Moon at the same time, 
> will you? The problem lies in too few eyeballs on too much code. They 
> still rely on backwards compatibility with ancient applications, so they 
> couldn't have strayed too far from the original XP code base. Otherwise, 
> proof, please?
>   

But you CAN'T!!  The source is closed.  Black boxes, nothing but black
boxes and thanks to Tinylimp lawyers buying law you are not allowed to
take them apart. 

Ergo, Tinylimp can make all the claims about how fresh and new the whole
thing is and it cannot be verified, period.  They could claim the code
was debugged by being passed through the digestive tracts of llamas
(instead of the usual male cattle), and you could neither confirm or
deny it.

Yes, they added some features, they added nifty and spiffy.  As to how
new any of it is?  No one without a gag order slapped down on them can
tell.  So they can't tell.

I'm willing the bet that the whole reason for the delays in Vista
release was the DRM.  It cannot work, they tried they really tried, but
in the end it cannot work.  However Tinylimp is so eager to suck the
RIAA and MIAA that they delayed the product trying to get it to work.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From freemancomputer at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 29 22:44:04 2007
From: freemancomputer at yahoo.com (jack freeman)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 19:44:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel panic
Message-ID: <256661.88578.qm@web55514.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

Seeing how i just moved it from Detroit it wouldn't surprise me. Ill have to reset everything. 

thanks
Jack

----- Original Message ----
From: Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 2:42:22 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Kernel panic

On 6/29/07, Ingles, Raymond <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:
> Repeated kernel panics tend to be a sign of hardware issues.

I recently had an unstable system that was caused by the Socket 478
CPU coming out of it's socket.  I think the heavy heat sink was
putting uneven pressure on it.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug







       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
http://sims.yahoo.com/  
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug/attachments/20070629/aa67bdd6/attachment-0001.html>

From davidl at lmert.com  Sat Jun 30 00:09:05 2007
From: davidl at lmert.com (David Lee Lambert)
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 00:09:05 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] APC UPS advice
Message-ID: <200706300009.10122.davidl@lmert.com>

I got a new toy today:  an APC "Back-UPS XS 900" UPS (model BX900R).  I 
plugged it in for the initial battery-charge an hour or two ago... only 18 
hours left.

It came with a USB interface cable (usb on one end,  RJ-45 on the other;  the 
RJ-45 jack fits into the UPS).  I tried plugging it into the server I'll be 
running off it and installing the Debian "nut" and "nut-usb" packages.  
However,  "lsusb" doesn't show any new devices,  even after "modprobe usbhid" 
and "modprobe usb-serial".  (I know the USB card is working because I have a 
thumb drive plugged into it;  I'm using part of said thumb drive as a swap 
partition.)

Kernel 2.6.14.5.

Is there some setting I need to tweak to get this cable to work?  Should I 
just give up and try a serial cable instead?  Does the cable not work until 
the UPS is fully charged?

-- 
David Lee Lambert ... Software Developer
Cell phone: +1 586-873-8813 ; alt. email <as4109 at wayne.edu> or 
<lamber45 at msu.edu>
GPG key at http://www.lmert.com/keyring.txt


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sat Jun 30 00:25:35 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 00:25:35 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] APC UPS advice
In-Reply-To: <200706300009.10122.davidl@lmert.com>
References: <200706300009.10122.davidl@lmert.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706292125v497dc59bh5e0c1c032d635b65@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/30/07, David Lee Lambert <davidl at lmert.com> wrote:
> However,  "lsusb" doesn't show any new devices,  even after "modprobe usbhid"
> and "modprobe usb-serial".  (I know the USB card is working because I have a
> thumb drive plugged into it;  I'm using part of said thumb drive as a swap
> partition.)

It should show up.  Try a different cable.  There is nothing in the
manual that indicates any other configuration is required.  Maybe
check their knowledge base:
nam-en.apc.com/cgi-bin/nam_en.cfg/php/enduser/std_alp.php?p_sid=F4SJroFi&p_lva=&p_li=&p_accessibility=0&p_page=1&p_cv=&p_pv=1.1596&p_prods=1596&p_cats=&p_hidden_prods=&prod_lvl1=1596&prod_lvl2=0&p_search_text=USB&p_new_search=1&p_search_type=answers.search_nl


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Sat Jun 30 02:22:27 2007
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 02:22:27 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel panic
In-Reply-To: <564977.74961.qm@web55506.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <564977.74961.qm@web55506.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380706292322i73ad5524tcd7c62a4b1065368@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/26/07, Jack Freeman wrote:

> I am having a problem with my web server booting. At times when it tries to
> boot I get a "kernel panic - not syncing: fatal exception in interrupt".

Check for this:
"The capacitor plague (also known as Bad Capacitors, Bad Caps or
Bloated Capacitors)"
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague>

It's amazing how many mobos still have this problem...

-- Mikey


From driveray at ameritech.net  Sat Jun 30 07:58:05 2007
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 07:58:05 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] Finding CD-ROM
In-Reply-To: <203631.32294.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <203631.32294.qm@web37905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4686454D.9090509@ameritech.net>

It's an 'nForce650i Ultra' manufactured by EVGA, "designed by NVidia".
I've used EVGA video cards for several years, they make reasonably
priced G-Force, etc cards. This mobo, with the same brand of e-GeForce
7600 GT 256MB PCI-E graphics adapter, plus a 3GHz Pentium-D dual core
processor, 1GB of Kingston DDR2, and a pair of 160GB WD SATA drives
comprise the main componants of a new system I put together for my
sister-in-law. She suffered a bad capacitor blowup, and this was as
cheap as I could bear to go.

By the way, do you need to run SuSE 10.1? I never heard much good about
it. 10.2 is better, at least by reputation. They've done some things
that I don't like (in addition with their flirtation with EVIL), but
over all it works well. I chose it because I understand SuSE in general,
and once delivered I will need to support it at a distance.



David Lane wrote:
> What mother board?
> 
> 
> */Raymond McLaughlin <driveray at ameritech.net>/* wrote:
>
>     I don't know about Suse 10.1, but Opensuse 10.2 installs fine from
>     a sata DVD drive. It might be the newer kernel, or it might be a
>     different motherboard. Getting the newer version couldn't hurt.
>
>     I take it you mean that the installer starts up, but the install
>     fails because it can't find the packages, etc on the disk?

> 
>     David Lane wrote:
> 
>     > I'm loading Suse 10.1 on a box that I built. While loading it cant
>     find
>     > the cd-rom of the dvd.
>     >
>     > Does any body know what to look for.
>     >
>     > David C. Lane
>     >


From as4109 at wayne.edu  Sat Jun 30 08:09:40 2007
From: as4109 at wayne.edu (Daud Lee Lambert)
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 08:09:40 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] APC UPS advice
References: <200706300009.10122.davidl@lmert.com>
	<b02c40e90706292125v497dc59bh5e0c1c032d635b65@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003301c7bb0f$89768d20$060fa8c0@lmert.com>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeff Hanson" <jhansonxi at gmail.com>
To: "MDLUG's Main discussion list" <mdlug at mdlug.org>


> On 6/30/07, David Lee Lambert <davidl at lmert.com> wrote:
> > However,  "lsusb" doesn't show any new devices,  even after "modprobe
usbhid"

> It should show up.  Try a different cable.  There is nothing in the
> manual that indicates any other configuration is required.  Maybe
> check their knowledge base:

Thanks.  I don't see anything in that knowledge base,  but I'll look more
carefully.

I tried the cable with a system that can boot Windows ME.  The "APC
PowerChute" sotware installed fine when the UPS was connected,  and is able
to talk to the UPS.  I tried unplugging and re-plugging the cable while both
the UPS and the computer were on;  the PowerChute software noticed the
disconnection, and reconnected just fine afterwards.

Here's some console output from the server, after plugging the UPS back in
to it:

ramoth# uname -a
Linux ramoth 2.6.14.5 #1 Sun May 13 23:39:42 EDT 2007 i586 GNU/Linux
ramoth# lsusb
Bus 001 Device 002: ID 08ec:0012 M-Systems Flash Disk Pioneers
Bus 001 Device 001: ID 0000:0000
ramoth# lsmod | grep usb
usblp                  12288  0
usbhid                 45056  0
usbserial              28680  0
usb_storage            61376  3
scsi_mod               94408  2 usb_storage,sd_mod
ramoth#




From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sat Jun 30 11:34:59 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 11:34:59 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] APC UPS advice
In-Reply-To: <003301c7bb0f$89768d20$060fa8c0@lmert.com>
References: <200706300009.10122.davidl@lmert.com>
	<b02c40e90706292125v497dc59bh5e0c1c032d635b65@mail.gmail.com>
	<003301c7bb0f$89768d20$060fa8c0@lmert.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90706300834v14c655f0x56f36beb7ad2744b@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/30/07, Daud Lee Lambert <as4109 at wayne.edu> wrote:
> ramoth# uname -a
> Linux ramoth 2.6.14.5 #1 Sun May 13 23:39:42 EDT 2007 i586 GNU/Linux
> ramoth# lsusb
> Bus 001 Device 002: ID 08ec:0012 M-Systems Flash Disk Pioneers
> Bus 001 Device 001: ID 0000:0000
> ramoth# lsmod | grep usb
> usblp                  12288  0
> usbhid                 45056  0
> usbserial              28680  0
> usb_storage            61376  3
> scsi_mod               94408  2 usb_storage,sd_mod
> ramoth#

Is the Flash disk actually there?  If not, it's possibly being
misidentified.  A lsusb -v -d <address> should give more info.


From drew4096 at gmail.com  Sat Jun 30 16:01:54 2007
From: drew4096 at gmail.com (Drew)
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 16:01:54 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] APC UPS advice
In-Reply-To: <200706300009.10122.davidl@lmert.com>
Message-ID: <etPan.4686b6b2.66346877.617@zaurus>

* David Lee Lambert <davidl at lmert.com> wrote on 06:09:05:
> I got a new toy today:  an APC "Back-UPS XS 900" UPS (model BX900R).

<snip>
> 
>  I tried plugging it into the server I'll be 
> running off it and installing the Debian "nut" and "nut-usb" packages.  
> However,  "lsusb" doesn't show any new devices,  even after "modprobe usbhid" 
> and "modprobe usb-serial". 

You might want to try apcupsd. I have a 500, same interface, and it works well for me.

(I know the USB card is working because I have a 
> thumb drive plugged into it;  I'm using part of said thumb drive as a swap 
> partition.)

You are aware, are you not, that flash memory such as is in a thumb drive only lasts for a  limited number of writes?

----

- Drew.

> 
> Kernel 2.6.14.5.
> 
> Is there some setting I need to tweak to get this cable to work?  Should I 
> just give up and try a serial cable instead?  Does the cable not work until 
> the UPS is fully charged?
> 
> -- 
> David Lee Lambert ... Software Developer
> Cell phone: +1 586-873-8813 ; alt. email <as4109 at wayne.edu> or 
> <lamber45 at msu.edu>
> GPG key at http://www.lmert.com/keyring.txt
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug




From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Sat Jun 30 17:14:34 2007
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 17:14:34 -0400
Subject: [mdlug] APC UPS advice
In-Reply-To: <etPan.4686b6b2.66346877.617@zaurus>
References: <200706300009.10122.davidl@lmert.com>
	<etPan.4686b6b2.66346877.617@zaurus>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380706301414h73e7ecfdg2d25bd159c61e715@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/30/07, Drew wrote:

> David Lee Lambert wrote:

> > I got a new toy today:  an APC "Back-UPS XS 900" UPS (model BX900R).

<snip>

> You are aware, are you not, that flash memory such as is in a thumb drive only lasts for a  limited number of writes?

One of the side benefits of WinVista (minor, to be sure) is that the
so-called "ReadyBoost"-certified flash drives are designed for
repeated, multiple writes.  Even so, I agree with Drew: flash drives
are NOT suitable for a swap partition because of the TYPE of
read/write cycling involved-- it's much better on an actual hard
drive.

The new hard drives made by Samsung and others that incorporate
flash-memory buffers use special load-spreading write techniques and
specially-manufactured flash chips (originally designed for the OLPC
Project) to lengthen the useful life of the drive-- including built-in
bypasses if the chips fail beyond a certain percentage of capacity.

-- Mikey


