From jcbender at bendorius.com  Sat Dec  1 00:07:29 2007
From: jcbender at bendorius.com (Joseph C. Bender)
Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 00:07:29 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] WiFi -Woes(?) or Broadcom is 'the' lame
In-Reply-To: <DB50A7F3-51ED-4CB6-8EC5-4E92170562C3@gmail.com>
References: <20071129224716.05F5F140DF@impelind.com>
	<DB50A7F3-51ED-4CB6-8EC5-4E92170562C3@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4750EC11.9020301@bendorius.com>

Michael Newman wrote:
> Why not leave the network open and filter MAC addresses. That would be  
> more secure than wpa2 and should allow you to connect freely since the  
> protection is all in the router. With the linksys router it is pretty  
> basic to set up. Also if you leave things open make sure you change  
> the ipaddress and password on the local router. In college people  
> would change ssids and passwords just for fun on whatever routers were  
> found open.
> 
	Dear Gods above, no!  This is terrible advice.

1.  This is massively vulnerable to MAC spoofing attacks.

2.  By doing that, it's now possible to sniff everything that's 
happening on that network.  Any semblance of protection is an illusion. 
  There is no protection, let alone the router providing it.  More 
secure?  Not even close.

	WPA2 + MAC filtering is a better idea.  WPA2-enterprise is an even 
better idea with full-bore 802.1x on top of it, but most people aren't 
going to want to sink that much time into their home networks.  *grin*. 
  WPA2 + AES-CCMP is pretty good, as long as one chooses a nice random 
hex string.  The issue is that the passphrases most people use really 
stink.  The thing about WPA(2) was that TKIP was about as bad as WEP 
was, and IIRC used the same  RC4 implementation.  AES-CCMP or nothing.


-- 
Joseph Bender
Bendorius Consulting
P: 248-434-5580
F: 248-434-5581
jcbender at bendorius com


From radkins at impelind.com  Sat Dec  1 08:18:36 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 08:18:36 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] WiFi -Woes(?) or Broadcom is 'the' lame
In-Reply-To: <4750EC11.9020301@bendorius.com>
Message-ID: <20071201132535.9230B1412E@impelind.com>

> > 
> 	Dear Gods above, no!  This is terrible advice.
> 
> 1.  This is massively vulnerable to MAC spoofing attacks.
> 
> 2.  By doing that, it's now possible to sniff everything 
> that's happening on that network.  Any semblance of 
> protection is an illusion. 
>   There is no protection, let alone the router providing it.  
> More secure?  Not even close.
> 
> 	WPA2 + MAC filtering is a better idea.  WPA2-enterprise 
> is an even better idea with full-bore 802.1x on top of it, 
> but most people aren't going to want to sink that much time 
> into their home networks.  *grin*. 
>   WPA2 + AES-CCMP is pretty good, as long as one chooses a 
> nice random hex string.  The issue is that the passphrases 
> most people use really stink.  The thing about WPA(2) was 
> that TKIP was about as bad as WEP was, and IIRC used the same 
>  RC4 implementation.  AES-CCMP or nothing.
> 
> 

	Thanks for the information.

 	I never use plain old passphrases. I usually open up notepad or vi
or kate and just mash some keys along with tapping the shift key from time
to time. Since it is my home network and I'm really unconcerned with leaving
a password out, I write down the results and store it in a hidey-hole, in
case I need to type it into something down the road.

	Giving me results like this:

	JKGHYDfuyuyd%#$%fvjkyfRYE$#

	Still haven't had the time to give the supposedly newer Windows
drivers a go with NDIS. Hopefully, there will be some time this afternoon.

	-Rob



From peter at petertheplumber.net  Sat Dec  1 15:17:05 2007
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 15:17:05 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] What to give a Software Programmer interested in Linux
Message-ID: <20071201151705.74160528@Nokia-N800-26>

Hi,
	I have a friend that has up to now had a passing interest in
Linux. He has just gone on assignment where the boss has decreed ''Thou
shalt learn Linux'' ahem ''Yesterday!''. My thought is to make him
copies of what live CD's I have which would be Ubuntu and DSL. I think
I should get him a copy of Knoppix and I heard openSuse has one now? I
also have an IBM T22 Thinkpad w/openSuse 10.3 on it he can play with.
I'll send along my relatel bookmarks and point him to the mailing lists
and forums.
	Is there anything I didn't think of?

Best Regards,

-- 
Peter The Plumber sm on the Road
State Licensed Plumber
State Certified Backflow Device Tester
Factory Trained Boiler Install/Service
<http://petertheplumber.net>
24h Service 313.215.5175

Don't sleep with a drip! Call a licensed and experienced plumber.


From cvweiss at gmail.com  Sat Dec  1 15:43:10 2007
From: cvweiss at gmail.com (Clinton V. Weiss)
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 15:43:10 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] What to give a Software Programmer interested in Linux
In-Reply-To: <20071201151705.74160528@Nokia-N800-26>
References: <20071201151705.74160528@Nokia-N800-26>
Message-ID: <f0e9fe590712011243g46c1f5f3l89dff24ff47d742a@mail.gmail.com>

On Dec 1, 2007 3:17 PM, Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:
> Hi,
>         I have a friend that has up to now had a passing interest in
> Linux. He has just gone on assignment where the boss has decreed ''Thou
> shalt learn Linux'' ahem ''Yesterday!''.

A group mind meld would catch him up rather quickly!

-- 
Clinton V. Weiss
cvweiss at gmail.com


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sat Dec  1 16:08:03 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 16:08:03 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] What to give a Software Programmer interested in Linux
In-Reply-To: <20071201151705.74160528@Nokia-N800-26>
References: <20071201151705.74160528@Nokia-N800-26>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712011308s5660d6f5ucce4a0d9881a471@mail.gmail.com>

On Dec 1, 2007 3:17 PM, Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:
> Is there anything I didn't think of?

What programming languages are going to be used?


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Sat Dec  1 16:15:47 2007
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 16:15:47 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] What to give a Software Programmer interested in Linux
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90712011308s5660d6f5ucce4a0d9881a471@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20071201151705.74160528@Nokia-N800-26>
	<b02c40e90712011308s5660d6f5ucce4a0d9881a471@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1196543747.9092.215.camel@plumber.site>


On Sat, 2007-12-01 at 16:08 -0500, Jeff Hanson wrote:
> On Dec 1, 2007 3:17 PM, Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:
> > Is there anything I didn't think of?
> 
> What programming languages are going to be used?

	That's an excellent question to which I don't know the answer! Sorry,
we'll have to try Clinton's suggestion.

Best Regards,
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From drew4096 at gmail.com  Sat Dec  1 17:50:13 2007
From: drew4096 at gmail.com (Drew)
Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 17:50:13 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] More OOCalc math wonkiness
In-Reply-To: <4750C357.2080902@hotpop.com>
References: <etPan.4750c021.328a2b63.2aa0@zaurus> <4750C357.2080902@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20071201174454.029b5160@pop.gmail.com>

At 09:13 PM 11/30/07, Aaron Kulkis wrote:


>Why are you even using a 2.0.0 BETA version when OO
>is already up to 2.2 RELEASE ?

     The Beta version was what was on the Fedora Core disk, and I 
hadn't noticed that it was Beta -
the indicating text was nearly the same color as the background on 
the startup logo.

     Henceforth I'm using the OO 2.0 that's on my Kanotix image. 
However I have discovered that
I can't just load in the old spreadsheets with it; somehow or other 
they still behave in a Beta
fashion if I do. It seems it's necessary to re-type in everything by 
hand in order to get the benefits
of non-Beta status.

----

   - Drew.



From micorral at comcast.net  Sat Dec  1 18:49:49 2007
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 18:49:49 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] What to give a Software Programmer interested in Linux
In-Reply-To: <20071201151705.74160528@Nokia-N800-26>
References: <20071201151705.74160528@Nokia-N800-26>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.0.99999.0712011847240.2439@banana.sluggo.net>

2007-12-01, Monsieur Peter Bart a ecrit:
> 	Is there anything I didn't think of?

<http://www.amazon.com/GNU-Emacs-Manual-Version-15th/dp/188211485X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1196552772&sr=1-1>

Michael


From driveray at ameritech.net  Sat Dec  1 20:59:58 2007
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 20:59:58 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] More OOCalc math wonkiness
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20071201174454.029b5160@pop.gmail.com>
References: <etPan.4750c021.328a2b63.2aa0@zaurus> <4750C357.2080902@hotpop.com>
	<6.2.3.4.0.20071201174454.029b5160@pop.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4752119E.4010201@ameritech.net>

Drew wrote:
 >      The Beta version was what was on the Fedora Core disk, and I

Ouch! Mark one big one against Fedora Core, unless the whole thing was a
pre-release distro.

> hadn't noticed that it was Beta - the indicating text was nearly
> the same color as the background on the startup logo.
> 
> Henceforth I'm using the OO 2.0 that's on my Kanotix image. 
> However I have discovered that I can't just load in the old
> spreadsheets with it; somehow or other they still behave in a Beta
> fashion if I do. It seems it's necessary to re-type in everything by 
> hand in order to get the benefits of non-Beta...

One slightly easier method might be as follows: Open the offending
document and a new document in adjacent windows. In the bad one select
Tools->Options...->OpenOffice.org Calc->View->Display and check the bx
labeled "Formulas". Although this seems to be a global setting it
doesn't seem to affect other open windows. And no great shakes if it
does, you can always change the view setting back when you are done.


From rherrell at twmi.rr.com  Sat Dec  1 21:45:13 2007
From: rherrell at twmi.rr.com (Richard Herrell)
Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 21:45:13 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] What to give a Software Programmer interested in Linux
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.0.99999.0712011847240.2439@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <20071201151705.74160528@Nokia-N800-26>
	<alpine.LFD.0.99999.0712011847240.2439@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <47521C39.1050605@twmi.rr.com>

Yes, give him an emacs manual.  That way, he can burn it and keep warm 
while learning vi.   :)

Just kidding.  A newbie from Windows should probably start using a total 
IDE.  Eclipse supports Java and C++.

Also, if the Windows programmer knows C# / .NET, he/she should check out 
Mono (C# for Linux) and try the Monodevelop IDE.

Regards,

Richard


Michael Corral wrote:
> 2007-12-01, Monsieur Peter Bart a ecrit:
>   
>> 	Is there anything I didn't think of?
>>     
>
> <http://www.amazon.com/GNU-Emacs-Manual-Version-15th/dp/188211485X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1196552772&sr=1-1>
>
> Michael
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>   



From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Sun Dec  2 19:33:52 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 19:33:52 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] What to give a Software Programmer interested in Linux
In-Reply-To: <47521C39.1050605@twmi.rr.com>
References: <20071201151705.74160528@Nokia-N800-26>	<alpine.LFD.0.99999.0712011847240.2439@banana.sluggo.net>
	<47521C39.1050605@twmi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <47534EF0.6090706@hotpop.com>

Richard Herrell wrote:
> Yes, give him an emacs manual.  That way, he can burn it and keep warm 
> while learning vi.   :)
> 
> Just kidding.  A newbie from Windows should probably start using a total 
> IDE.  Eclipse supports Java and C++.

Why encourage a pattern of living in a "gilded cage"?

Real programmer's aren't reliant on an IDE.

The only reason IDE's were invented is because the command
line was (and remains) so utterly underpowered in Windows.

Really... teaching him or her to learn emacs or vi is MUCH
more useful.

> Also, if the Windows programmer knows C# / .NET, he/she should check out 
> Mono (C# for Linux) and try the Monodevelop IDE.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Richard
> 
> 
> Michael Corral wrote:
>> 2007-12-01, Monsieur Peter Bart a ecrit:
>>   
>>> 	Is there anything I didn't think of?
>>>     
>> <http://www.amazon.com/GNU-Emacs-Manual-Version-15th/dp/188211485X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1196552772&sr=1-1>
>>
>> Michael




From micorral at comcast.net  Sun Dec  2 22:24:37 2007
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 22:24:37 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] What to give a Software Programmer interested in Linux
In-Reply-To: <47521C39.1050605@twmi.rr.com>
References: <20071201151705.74160528@Nokia-N800-26>
	<alpine.LFD.0.99999.0712011847240.2439@banana.sluggo.net>
	<47521C39.1050605@twmi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.0.99999.0712022201190.5112@banana.sluggo.net>

2007-12-01, Monsieur Richard Herrell a ecrit:
> Yes, give him an emacs manual.  That way, he can burn it and keep warm
> while learning vi.   :)
>
> Just kidding.  A newbie from Windows should probably start using a total
> IDE.  Eclipse supports Java and C++.

I understand the reasoning behind that approach, as a way of easing a
Windows person into Linux. I think the goal of the programmer makes a
difference. If it's just to do Windows .NET programming in Linux (e.g.
Mono, as you mention below), then using an IDE is probably the best
idea, since that's what the person is used to. "Learning" Linux just
to do .NET programming basically makes you a tourist in a foreign
land anyhow, no need to learn the ways of the natives.

But if the goal is to do actual Linux programming, then learning things
like Emacs, vi, bash, and various command-line utilities (grep, sort,
sed, awk, etc.) is important, IMHO. Being comfortable on the command
line and "gluing" various tools together is still a big part of the
Linux/UNIX "way", certainly for programmers. Emacs is a good way of
getting introduced to all that, with all the ways it has of interacting
with the OS (and other things:).

Michael

> Also, if the Windows programmer knows C# / .NET, he/she should check out
> Mono (C# for Linux) and try the Monodevelop IDE.
>
> Michael Corral wrote:
>> 2007-12-01, Monsieur Peter Bart a ecrit:
>>> 	Is there anything I didn't think of?
>> <http://www.amazon.com/GNU-Emacs-Manual-Version-15th/dp/188211485X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1196552772&sr=1-1>


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Sun Dec  2 22:21:04 2007
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 22:21:04 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] What to give a Software Programmer interested in Linux
In-Reply-To: <47534EF0.6090706@hotpop.com>
References: <20071201151705.74160528@Nokia-N800-26>
	<alpine.LFD.0.99999.0712011847240.2439@banana.sluggo.net>
	<47521C39.1050605@twmi.rr.com> <47534EF0.6090706@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <20071202222104.49cc9b35@Nokia-N800-26>

On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 19:33:52 -0500
Aaron Kulkis <akulkis3 at hotpop.com> wrote:

> Richard Herrell wrote:
> > Yes, give him an emacs manual.  That way, he can burn it and keep
> > warm while learning vi.   :)
> > 
> > Just kidding.  A newbie from Windows should probably start using a
> > total IDE.  Eclipse supports Java and C++.
> 
> Why encourage a pattern of living in a "gilded cage"?
> 
> Real programmer's aren't reliant on an IDE.
> 
> The only reason IDE's were invented is because the command
> line was (and remains) so utterly underpowered in Windows.
> 
> Really... teaching him or her to learn emacs or vi is MUCH
> more useful.
> 
> > Also, if the Windows programmer knows C# / .NET, he/she should
> > check out Mono (C# for Linux) and try the Monodevelop IDE.

	Actually it gets much more interesting, he's also supposed to
learn Perl. At any rate I dropped off my little care package, on the
laptop he found the terminal right away. 
	On that note, on his company supplied laptop he's not allowed
to load anything. Ditto for the customer supplied laptop. Not even in a
virtual machine, under threat of dismissal! Yet he's supposed
to.........??? I could see where even a live cd  would be
misconstrued. Seems like the perfect arguement for a true root/user
system!

-- 
Peter The Plumber sm on the Road
State Licensed Plumber
State Certified Backflow Device Tester
Factory Trained Boiler Install/Service
<http://petertheplumber.net>
24h Service 313.215.5175

Don't sleep with a drip! Call a licensed and experienced plumber.


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Sun Dec  2 23:00:18 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 23:00:18 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] What to give a Software Programmer interested in Linux
In-Reply-To: <20071202222104.49cc9b35@Nokia-N800-26>
References: <20071201151705.74160528@Nokia-N800-26>	<alpine.LFD.0.99999.0712011847240.2439@banana.sluggo.net>	<47521C39.1050605@twmi.rr.com>
	<47534EF0.6090706@hotpop.com>
	<20071202222104.49cc9b35@Nokia-N800-26>
Message-ID: <47537F52.4000701@hotpop.com>

Peter Bart wrote:
> On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 19:33:52 -0500
> Aaron Kulkis <akulkis3 at hotpop.com> wrote:
> 
>> Richard Herrell wrote:
>>> Yes, give him an emacs manual.  That way, he can burn it and keep
>>> warm while learning vi.   :)
>>>
>>> Just kidding.  A newbie from Windows should probably start using a
>>> total IDE.  Eclipse supports Java and C++.
>> Why encourage a pattern of living in a "gilded cage"?
>>
>> Real programmer's aren't reliant on an IDE.
>>
>> The only reason IDE's were invented is because the command
>> line was (and remains) so utterly underpowered in Windows.
>>
>> Really... teaching him or her to learn emacs or vi is MUCH
>> more useful.
>>
>>> Also, if the Windows programmer knows C# / .NET, he/she should
>>> check out Mono (C# for Linux) and try the Monodevelop IDE.
> 
> 	Actually it gets much more interesting, he's also supposed to
> learn Perl. At any rate I dropped off my little care package, on the
> laptop he found the terminal right away. 
> 	On that note, on his company supplied laptop he's not allowed
> to load anything. Ditto for the customer supplied laptop. Not even in a
> virtual machine, under threat of dismissal! Yet he's supposed
> to.........??? I could see where even a live cd  would be
> misconstrued. Seems like the perfect arguement for a true root/user
> system!

With idiotic rules like that, I'd find a new company
to work for.  If they're too dumb to realize that on
a Linux machine, non-root users can safely run just
about everything, then they're going to be WAY too
aggravating to work for.





From peter at petertheplumber.net  Mon Dec  3 06:32:29 2007
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 06:32:29 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] What to give a Software Programmer interested in Linux
In-Reply-To: <47537F52.4000701@hotpop.com>
References: <20071201151705.74160528@Nokia-N800-26>
	<alpine.LFD.0.99999.0712011847240.2439@banana.sluggo.net>
	<47521C39.1050605@twmi.rr.com> <47534EF0.6090706@hotpop.com>
	<20071202222104.49cc9b35@Nokia-N800-26> <47537F52.4000701@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <1196681549.9092.249.camel@plumber.site>


On Sun, 2007-12-02 at 23:00 -0500, Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> Peter Bart wrote:
<snip>
> > 
> > 	Actually it gets much more interesting, he's also supposed to
> > learn Perl. At any rate I dropped off my little care package, on the
> > laptop he found the terminal right away. 
> > 	On that note, on his company supplied laptop he's not allowed
> > to load anything. Ditto for the customer supplied laptop. Not even in a
> > virtual machine, under threat of dismissal! Yet he's supposed
> > to.........??? I could see where even a live cd  would be
> > misconstrued. Seems like the perfect arguement for a true root/user
> > system!
> 
> With idiotic rules like that, I'd find a new company
> to work for.  If they're too dumb to realize that on
> a Linux machine, non-root users can safely run just
> about everything, then they're going to be WAY too
> aggravating to work for.

	Yes, that thought has crossed my mind in his regard. But if it's all
you know then who's to say it's aggravating? He learns ways around those
regs just like I learn to c&p commands into a terminal to get what I
want. Granted, I actually learn some of the commands as I do that thanks
to man. Apparently there are a *lot* of people that bring their own
laptops in and connect them to the network; for that purpose; despite
the same threat of dismissal. Some sort of don't ask don't tell.
	Also one has to consider the economic climate here in the state. I
imagine it's easier to telecommute for a programmer than it is for a
plumber, but it has to play into it somewhere?

Best Regards,
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Mon Dec  3 09:19:47 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 09:19:47 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] What to give a Software Programmer interested in Linux
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.0.99999.0712022201190.5112@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACDE@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Michael Corral

> But if the goal is to do actual Linux programming, then learning things
> like Emacs, vi, bash, and various command-line utilities (grep, sort,
> sed, awk, etc.) is important, IMHO. Being comfortable on the command
> line and "gluing" various tools together is still a big part of the
> Linux/UNIX "way", certainly for programmers. Emacs is a good way of
> getting introduced to all that, with all the ways it has of 
> interacting with the OS (and other things:).

 If the goal is indeed to do Linux programming, then Eric Raymond's book "The
Art of Unix Programming" would be quite valuable:

 http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/taoup/

 The whole book is available online, or you can buy it from various places.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                          (313) 227-2317

 "Bush's claim that he listed three exceptions under which he would
 run deficits during a 2000 Chicago campaign stop -- war, national
 emergency or recession -- is blatantly false. No one has found any
 evidence that Bush made such a statement, and the White House has
         pointedly failed to provide any." - Salon
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From tmorris at ugs.com  Mon Dec  3 09:35:25 2007
From: tmorris at ugs.com (Morris, Tim)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 08:35:25 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Want to swap AGP Geforce2 MX 200 for PCI video card
	w/Hardware T&L
In-Reply-To: <474BD59E.3080209@hotpop.com>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACC9@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<alpine.LFD.0.99999.0711261940400.2123@banana.sluggo.net>	<6.2.3.4.0.20071127015550.029811f0@pop.gmail.com><alpine.LFD.0.99999.0711270029210.5305@banana.sluggo.net>
	<474BD59E.3080209@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E20407D420@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>

This is cheap:
<http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815166004>

We actually bought two of these, and they work well (with the addition
of some kernel params to activate all 8):
<http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815124019>


-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Aaron Kulkis
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 3:30 AM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] OT: Want to swap AGP Geforce2 MX 200 for PCI video
card w/Hardware T&L

Michael Corral wrote:
> 2007-11-27, Monsieur Drew a ecrit:
>> At 07:56 PM 11/26/07, Michael Corral wrote:
>>> BTW, if anyone needs any ISA video cards, let me know. I need to get
>>> rid of this (and a whole bunch of other) stuff.
>>     No need for a video card here; but do you by chance have a PCI
serial
>> card?
> 
> No. I've never even seen such a thing.

sounds like something you would plug into a PCI
slot, and then get dozens (or 16's) of serial ports,
for, say, hooking up a bunch of ASCII terminals.

Digiboard (www.digi.com) made them in the 90's.

<http://www.google.com/search?q=pci+port-concentrator+serial&start=0&sta
rt=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=mozilla&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial>


_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From radkins at impelind.com  Mon Dec  3 10:13:02 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 10:13:02 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] What to give a Software Programmer interested in Linux
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACDE@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <20071203152006.1C51F140DF@impelind.com>


	There's a good book called "The Linux Programmers Guide" or
something to that effect. (A google search appears to only contain links to
an online "book" that is similar, yet not the same as what the book I am
talking about.

	I picked it up to sharped my bash scripting skills. It covers
several Linux shell scripting languages with both theoreticals and examples.
It also covers sed/awk, tcl/tk, delves into some C/C++. It's mostly a
surface brushing of topics and covers some basics of internal Linux
commands.

	If anything, it could be a good help to learn how elements in Linux
interact with one another, which should be a good stepping off point.

	Hopefully, your friend's boss isn't expecting any kind of serious
competency with Linux within a few short weeks. It could take more than a
handful of months just to become familiar enough that some things start
becoming second nature and then years on top of that before it all becomes
natural, to the point that your friend will just be able to do things and
come up with answers for problems/issues without even thinking about it.

	I'll see if I can pull out that book this evening and email off the
ISBN information to the list.

-Rob



> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Ingles, Raymond
> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 9:20 AM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] What to give a Software Programmer 
> interested in Linux
> 
> > From: Michael Corral
> 
> > But if the goal is to do actual Linux programming, then learning 
> > things like Emacs, vi, bash, and various command-line 
> utilities (grep, 
> > sort, sed, awk, etc.) is important, IMHO. Being comfortable on the 
> > command line and "gluing" various tools together is still a 
> big part 
> > of the Linux/UNIX "way", certainly for programmers. Emacs is a good 
> > way of getting introduced to all that, with all the ways it has of 
> > interacting with the OS (and other things:).
> 
>  If the goal is indeed to do Linux programming, then Eric 
> Raymond's book "The Art of Unix Programming" would be quite valuable:
> 
>  http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/taoup/
> 
>  The whole book is available online, or you can buy it from 
> various places.
> 
>  Sincerely,
> 
>  Ray Ingles                                          (313) 227-2317
> 
>  "Bush's claim that he listed three exceptions under which he 
> would  run deficits during a 2000 Chicago campaign stop -- 
> war, national  emergency or recession -- is blatantly false. 
> No one has found any  evidence that Bush made such a 
> statement, and the White House has
>          pointedly failed to provide any." - Salon The 
> contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee 
> only. It contains information that may be confidential. 
> Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, 
> you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If 
> you received it in error please notify us immediately and 
> then destroy it.
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Dec  3 12:21:16 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 12:21:16 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] What to give a Software Programmer interested in Linux
In-Reply-To: <20071202222104.49cc9b35@Nokia-N800-26>
References: <20071201151705.74160528@Nokia-N800-26>
	<alpine.LFD.0.99999.0712011847240.2439@banana.sluggo.net>
	<47521C39.1050605@twmi.rr.com> <47534EF0.6090706@hotpop.com>
	<20071202222104.49cc9b35@Nokia-N800-26>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712030921p588526bcsa2b367e7f24c6a7a@mail.gmail.com>

On Dec 2, 2007 10:21 PM, Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:
>         Actually it gets much more interesting, he's also supposed to
> learn Perl. At any rate I dropped off my little care package, on the
> laptop he found the terminal right away.

I don't know much about Perl.  If he is going to be doing any C# or
Java cross-platform stuff then Mainsoft (www.mainsoft.com) has a lot
of tools including plug-ins for Visual Studio.

>         On that note, on his company supplied laptop he's not allowed
> to load anything. Ditto for the customer supplied laptop. Not even in a
> virtual machine, under threat of dismissal! Yet he's supposed
> to.........??? I could see where even a live cd  would be
> misconstrued. Seems like the perfect arguement for a true root/user
> system!

There are several companies that provide hosted systems with ssh and
vnc access that can be used for development.  Search with Google for
"dedicated hosting linux account development ssh vnc".


From radkins at impelind.com  Mon Dec  3 13:36:29 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 13:36:29 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] WiFi -Woes(?) or Broadcom is 'the' lame
In-Reply-To: <20071201132535.9230B1412E@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <20071203184333.0295114142@impelind.com>

It's working.

I'm currently unsure why. However, the laptop is now connecting with WPA
authentication on the wireless router.

The only different thing that I did was boot the latop to the desktop
without plugging the laptop into the hardline. At the time, a friend had his
laptop plugged into my hardline to download a few updates to his laptop that
would have taken "days" on his dial-up.

I made no changes to the configuration, I had not had a chance to install
the supposed newer drivers either. (Installing that driver is why I had
booted up the laptop in the first place.)

-Rob



From peter at petertheplumber.net  Mon Dec  3 15:17:43 2007
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 15:17:43 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] What to give a Software Programmer interested in Linux
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACDE@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <alpine.LFD.0.99999.0712022201190.5112@banana.sluggo.net>
	<41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACDE@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <20071203151743.4f2ccb4f@Nokia-N800-26>

On Mon, 3 Dec 2007 09:19:47 -0500
"Ingles, Raymond" <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:

> > From: Michael Corral
> 
> > But if the goal is to do actual Linux programming, then learning
> > things like Emacs, vi, bash, and various command-line utilities
> > (grep, sort, sed, awk, etc.) is important, IMHO. Being comfortable
> > on the command line and "gluing" various tools together is still a
> > big part of the Linux/UNIX "way", certainly for programmers. Emacs
> > is a good way of getting introduced to all that, with all the ways
> > it has of interacting with the OS (and other things:).
> 
>  If the goal is indeed to do Linux programming, then Eric Raymond's
> book "The Art of Unix Programming" would be quite valuable:
> 
>  http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/taoup/
> 
>  The whole book is available online, or you can buy it from various
> places.

	Thank you all for your suggestions! I emailed my friend the
link  to the thread in the archive so he can decide for himself. 
	It's kind of worrysome to think *I* have a protege ;)

Best Regards,

-- 
Peter The Plumber sm on the Road


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Mon Dec  3 23:04:13 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 23:04:13 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: Re: [opensuse] vmware and fake scsi devs]  SOLUTION
Message-ID: <4754D1BD.4010107@hotpop.com>



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [opensuse] vmware and fake scsi devs
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 00:09:38 -0300
From: Cristian Rodr?guez <crrodriguez at suse.de>
To: opensuse at opensuse.org
References: <200712031538.26426.kanenas at hawaii.rr.com>

kanenas at hawaii.rr.com escribi?:
> It seems there is one major downside to all the disks being "called" scsi 
> devices in 10.3.

There is no downside, error or annoyance, it is just a well known
change.. did you read the release notes ?

http://www.suse.com/relnotes/i386/openSUSE/10.3/RELEASE-NOTES.en.html#09

+
+ libata for IDE Devices
+
+ libata uses /dev/sda for the first harddisk instead of /dev/hda.
+ Disks with more than 15 partitions are not handled automatically
+ right now. You can disable libata support by booting with the
+ following kernel parameter:
+
+ hwprobe=-modules.pata
+
+ Then you see all the partitions > 15 again and can access them
+ for installation.



-- 
"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education." -
Albert Einstein

Cristian Rodr?guez R.
Platform/OpenSUSE - Core Services
SUSE LINUX Products GmbH
Research & Development
http://www.opensuse.org/





From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Mon Dec  3 23:03:56 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 23:03:56 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: [opensuse] vmware and fake scsi devs]
Message-ID: <4754D1AC.6050804@hotpop.com>

An interesting issue came up on the Opensuse list.

By some mechanism, SuSE 10.3 presents all disks as SCSI
(even IDE), causing problems with VMWare.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [opensuse] vmware and fake scsi devs
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 15:38:26 -1000
From: kanenas at hawaii.rr.com
To: opensuse at opensuse.org

It seems there is one major downside to all the disks
being "called" scsi devices in 10.3. There are applications
that take /dev/scx literally as a scsi disk x. One such
application is vmware. This ended being a major problem
when i tried to use a raw partition as a physical vmware
disk on my laptop.

The actual disk is an ide device, but the first partition
in my Suse 10.3 install is called /dev/sda1 and that is
what it passes to vmware as the actual physical disk.
Vmware has for a long time stated that it does not boot
from physical scsi devices and thus it keels over when
it sees that the raw device is scsi.

Is there an easy way to pass the actual partition type
to vmware workstation 4.x or server 1.x) in 10.3 or do
i go back to 10.2?
thanks,
d.






From radkins at impelind.com  Tue Dec  4 08:28:46 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 08:28:46 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: [opensuse] vmware and fake scsi devs]
In-Reply-To: <4754D1AC.6050804@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <20071204133552.6289914142@impelind.com>

	I could only suggest putting a filesystem on the partition on
intends to run a VMWare session/image from, instead of leaving it raw.

	I am having no issues with running VMWare (Player) on my laptop
running OpenSuSe 10.3. It runs absolutely fine with the virtual machine
image sitting in my home directory.

	-Rob


> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Kulkis
> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 11:04 PM
> To: mdlug at mdlug.org
> Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: [opensuse] vmware and fake scsi devs]
> 
> An interesting issue came up on the Opensuse list.
> 
> By some mechanism, SuSE 10.3 presents all disks as SCSI (even 
> IDE), causing problems with VMWare.
> 
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [opensuse] vmware and fake scsi devs
> Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 15:38:26 -1000
> From: kanenas at hawaii.rr.com
> To: opensuse at opensuse.org
> 
> It seems there is one major downside to all the disks being 
> "called" scsi devices in 10.3. There are applications that 
> take /dev/scx literally as a scsi disk x. One such 
> application is vmware. This ended being a major problem when 
> i tried to use a raw partition as a physical vmware disk on my laptop.
> 
> The actual disk is an ide device, but the first partition in 
> my Suse 10.3 install is called /dev/sda1 and that is what it 
> passes to vmware as the actual physical disk.
> Vmware has for a long time stated that it does not boot from 
> physical scsi devices and thus it keels over when it sees 
> that the raw device is scsi.
> 
> Is there an easy way to pass the actual partition type to 
> vmware workstation 4.x or server 1.x) in 10.3 or do i go back to 10.2?
> thanks,
> d.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 



From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Tue Dec  4 08:54:24 2007
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 08:54:24 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Linux is "greener"
Message-ID: <b67fb0380712040554s1de5f9d1laa7c69ed85ceb7b7@mail.gmail.com>

I have an alert set up at the CNN website that sends me an e-mail each
time a Linux-related story comes across the wire.  Most are not worthy
of a pass-along, but this one is.

I actually remember this story from the first time around, but it's
good to see it pop up again in a general-news context.  Of course,
WinVsita actually exacerbates and ACCELERATES the problem...

True or False: E-Waste
12/03/07 09:52 PM, EST
True or False: Switching from a Windows-operated computer to a
Linux-operated one could slash computer-generated e-waste levels by
50%.
<http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/12/03/eco.myth.ewaste/index.html>

A typical real-world story:
"Philippines and other nations brace for more e-waste"
<http://www.philnews.com/2007/002a.html>

~~ Mikey


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Tue Dec  4 08:56:36 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 08:56:36 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Anyone using an HDTV as a monitor?
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACE8@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>

Spent a few minutes last night plugging in the laptop to our HDTV (it has a VGA
input). It's a Syntax LT32HV, 1366x768 pixels. Using the "nvidia-settings" program,
I was able to get up to 1280x768, which looked quite nice. Apparently, however, it's
possible to get 'pixel-exact' representation, so that nothing's stretched. Anyone
have any experience with that?

 From what I've been able to gather, if I edit the xorg.conf file and add an appropriate
mode (without timings), it has a chance of working. I've also found some mode timings that
might work. Apparently the fact that 1366 is not an exact multiple of 8 can be a problem;
some people do 1360 or 1368.

 It's only a toy, unfortunately. The onboard video card only has 8MB of VRAM, so
I can't play 3D games at 1280x720 or anything like that. It's got a 1.6MHz P4-M,
no slouch but there's no chance it could play HD movies. But it might be fun to
surf the web or whatever with it...

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                              (313) 227-2317

 "There is a fine line between being on to something and on something."
                          -Friar Broccoli
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From radkins at impelind.com  Tue Dec  4 09:47:54 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 09:47:54 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Anyone using an HDTV as a monitor?
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACE8@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <20071204145459.7404A14140@impelind.com>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Ingles, Raymond
> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 8:57 AM
> To: Mdlug (E-mail)
> Subject: [mdlug] Anyone using an HDTV as a monitor?
> 
> Spent a few minutes last night plugging in the laptop to our 
> HDTV (it has a VGA input). It's a Syntax LT32HV, 1366x768 
> pixels. Using the "nvidia-settings" program, I was able to 
> get up to 1280x768, which looked quite nice. Apparently, 
> however, it's possible to get 'pixel-exact' representation, 
> so that nothing's stretched. Anyone have any experience with that?
> 
>  From what I've been able to gather, if I edit the xorg.conf 
> file and add an appropriate mode (without timings), it has a 
> chance of working. I've also found some mode timings that 
> might work. Apparently the fact that 1366 is not an exact 
> multiple of 8 can be a problem; some people do 1360 or 1368.
> 
>  It's only a toy, unfortunately. The onboard video card only 
> has 8MB of VRAM, so I can't play 3D games at 1280x720 or 
> anything like that. It's got a 1.6MHz P4-M, no slouch but 
> there's no chance it could play HD movies. But it might be 
> fun to surf the web or whatever with it...
> 

	Yes, you will need to edit the xorg.conf file. If you plug the
resolution you are seeking into Google and include xorg.conf in the search
terms, there is likely a high chance of obtaining the actual mode settings
you will need for it to properly display.

	I used to have to do that everytime I setup a new distro, updated
X11/xorg on my laptop, which is a wide-screen model, until just about a few
years back. None of the vendors provided the ability to detect, nor even
properly configure wide-screen screens until back then.

	-Rob



From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Tue Dec  4 09:54:29 2007
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 06:54:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] Anyone using an HDTV as a monitor?
Message-ID: <281160.30811.qm@web37907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I got a Wide screen Samsung and every thing is stretched. And the DVD player Xine does not play movies.

David


----- Original Message ----
From: "Ingles, Raymond" <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com>
To: Mdlug (E-mail) <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 4, 2007 8:56:36 AM
Subject: [mdlug] Anyone using an HDTV as a monitor?


Spent a few minutes last night plugging in the laptop to our HDTV (it
 has a VGA
input). It's a Syntax LT32HV, 1366x768 pixels. Using the
 "nvidia-settings" program,
I was able to get up to 1280x768, which looked quite nice. Apparently,
 however, it's
possible to get 'pixel-exact' representation, so that nothing's
 stretched. Anyone
have any experience with that?

 From what I've been able to gather, if I edit the xorg.conf file and
 add an appropriate
mode (without timings), it has a chance of working. I've also found
 some mode timings that
might work. Apparently the fact that 1366 is not an exact multiple of 8
 can be a problem;
some people do 1360 or 1368.

 It's only a toy, unfortunately. The onboard video card only has 8MB of
 VRAM, so
I can't play 3D games at 1280x720 or anything like that. It's got a
 1.6MHz P4-M,
no slouch but there's no chance it could play HD movies. But it might
 be fun to
surf the web or whatever with it...

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                              (313) 227-2317

 "There is a fine line between being on to something and on something."
                          -Friar Broccoli
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only.
 It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the
 named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or
 disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify
 us immediately and then destroy it.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug






      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

From radkins at impelind.com  Tue Dec  4 10:49:21 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 10:49:21 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Anyone using an HDTV as a monitor?
In-Reply-To: <281160.30811.qm@web37907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20071204155627.04A0314142@impelind.com>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of David Lane
> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 9:54 AM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Anyone using an HDTV as a monitor?
> 
> I got a Wide screen Samsung and every thing is stretched. And 
> the DVD player Xine does not play movies.
> 
> David
> 
> 

	What distro are you using?

	I use OpenSuse10.3 and it suggests Kaffeine as the media player.
When you fire up Kaffiene for the first time, it suggests that you install
the "third party" and covered by copy right media codecs. If you say "yes"
it takes you to a website which has a link to one of the OpenSuSe 10.3
"one-click" install packages. This will install all of the Windows Media
Codecs, DCCS and several others.

	I did that, popped in a DVD and voila! It just worked.

	-Rob



From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Tue Dec  4 09:33:27 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 09:33:27 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: [opensuse] vmware and fake scsi devs]
In-Reply-To: <20071204133552.6289914142@impelind.com>
References: <20071204133552.6289914142@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <47556537.60802@hotpop.com>

Robert Adkins wrote:
> 	I could only suggest putting a filesystem on the partition on
> intends to run a VMWare session/image from, instead of leaving it raw.
> 
> 	I am having no issues with running VMWare (Player) on my laptop
> running OpenSuSe 10.3. It runs absolutely fine with the virtual machine
> image sitting in my home directory.

That's good to know.  Perhaps it is older version of VMWare
that don't deal with SCSI very well.


> 
> 	-Rob
> 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
>> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Kulkis
>> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 11:04 PM
>> To: mdlug at mdlug.org
>> Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: [opensuse] vmware and fake scsi devs]
>>
>> An interesting issue came up on the Opensuse list.
>>
>> By some mechanism, SuSE 10.3 presents all disks as SCSI (even 
>> IDE), causing problems with VMWare.
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: [opensuse] vmware and fake scsi devs
>> Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 15:38:26 -1000
>> From: kanenas at hawaii.rr.com
>> To: opensuse at opensuse.org
>>
>> It seems there is one major downside to all the disks being 
>> "called" scsi devices in 10.3. There are applications that 
>> take /dev/scx literally as a scsi disk x. One such 
>> application is vmware. This ended being a major problem when 
>> i tried to use a raw partition as a physical vmware disk on my laptop.
>>
>> The actual disk is an ide device, but the first partition in 
>> my Suse 10.3 install is called /dev/sda1 and that is what it 
>> passes to vmware as the actual physical disk.
>> Vmware has for a long time stated that it does not boot from 
>> physical scsi devices and thus it keels over when it sees 
>> that the raw device is scsi.
>>
>> Is there an easy way to pass the actual partition type to 
>> vmware workstation 4.x or server 1.x) in 10.3 or do i go back to 10.2?
>> thanks,
>> d.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mdlug mailing list
>> mdlug at mdlug.org
>> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 





From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Tue Dec  4 13:05:58 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 13:05:58 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Remotely Use Linux
In-Reply-To: <1196205102.8812.5.camel@bemus-tony>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACEA@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>

I discovered a trick for Windows XP. Normally, it does not allow anyone to be logged
onto the desktop if someone is using the Remote Desktop feature; indeed, it will kick
off anyone using the desktop if a remote connection is set up.

 However... beta versions of XP SP2 did not impose such a limit. Googling for "Remote
Desktop XP Concurrent Sessions" will turn up copies of the beta termsrv.dll and how
to apply it.

 Now the kids can be playing web games or whatever on the machine while my wife does
work for her bakery on the laptop. Linux has a nice RDP client... :->

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                              (313) 227-2317

 "You don't *understand* quantum mechanics, you just *get used to it*."
                          - Richard Feynman
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Tue Dec  4 13:10:42 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 13:10:42 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Upgrading from Vista to XP
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACEB@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>

We did that last weekend. My wife is hooked on MS Office, so we have a Windows machine.
But we got our Dell C521 before they offered XP as an option; it came with Vista. I've
already reported on the list the problems I had with it (sssslllloooowwww, and many games
simply would not work).

 Finally, my wife just could not stand how slow Vista was. So, I set up XP. (Fun fact...
you can't install the Windows chipset drivers before you install SP2, or you won't get
USB 2.0. I had to uninstall the USB hardware and let the OS reinstall it. "Windows...
the operating system that makes you delete things to get them to work.") The same machine
is now *much* faster, and plays the games I have just fine, no more than the usual
Windows troubles.

 Of course, when I did the reformatting, I left a few gigs open for Linux. Can't wait to
see how it works on that hardware...

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                              (313) 227-2317

 "I can imagine no way in which this thing could be considered anywhere
           remotely close to safe." - Aaron, in _Primer_
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Tue Dec  4 13:49:21 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 13:49:21 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Linux is "greener"
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380712040554s1de5f9d1laa7c69ed85ceb7b7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380712040554s1de5f9d1laa7c69ed85ceb7b7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712041049q490aa858r1d1a3c23597e4ccf@mail.gmail.com>

On Dec 4, 2007 8:54 AM, Michael Rudas <audiotech50 at gmail.com> wrote:
> True or False: E-Waste
> 12/03/07 09:52 PM, EST
> True or False: Switching from a Windows-operated computer to a
> Linux-operated one could slash computer-generated e-waste levels by
> 50%.

Not only is Linux faster on old systems but there isn't any of the
licensing hassles and restrictions that accompany the M$ "Software
Donation Program"
(http://www.techsoup.org/stock/Category.asp?catalog_name=TechSoupMain&category_name=Microsoft&Page=1)
and the "Microsoft Authorized Refurbisher" program
(http://www.techsoup.org/mar/).


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Tue Dec  4 13:52:52 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 13:52:52 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Upgrading from Vista to XP
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACEB@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACEB@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712041052v618a1f7fve678613cd7fdd383@mail.gmail.com>

On Dec 4, 2007 1:10 PM, Ingles, Raymond <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:
> We did that last weekend. My wife is hooked on MS Office, so we have a Windows machine.
> But we got our Dell C521 before they offered XP as an option; it came with Vista. I've
> already reported on the list the problems I had with it (sssslllloooowwww, and many games
> simply would not work).

Some XP/Vista/Office2003/Office2007 benchmarks:  exo-blog.blogspot.com
Apparently they are accurate because M$ are after them.


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Tue Dec  4 14:28:19 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 14:28:19 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Linux is "greener"
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90712041049q490aa858r1d1a3c23597e4ccf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACED@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Jeff Hanson

> Not only is Linux faster on old systems but there isn't any of the
> licensing hassles and restrictions that accompany the M$ "Software
> Donation Program"

 Well, it certainly *can* be faster, and usually is. But recent distros of
Linux can be pretty darn memory-hungry. The latest Ubuntu is a bit sluggish
on our "new-to-us" laptop with 384MB of RAM. I'm working on ways to trim the
fat off; I might look at Xubuntu.

 That being said, Linux's 'sweet spot' seems to be around 512MB of RAM. For
XP, it seems to need about double that, 1GB.

 Of course, I recall when Linux with 16MB RAM was faster than Windows with
32MB... :->

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                     (313) 227-2317

 "Imagine a cluster of Windows machines. They'd have to have a
    team of MCSE's equipped with roller skates, just to keep
           pressing reset buttons." - Peter Jensen
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Tue Dec  4 14:14:21 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 14:14:21 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Upgrading from Vista to XP
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90712041052v618a1f7fve678613cd7fdd383@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACEB@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<b02c40e90712041052v618a1f7fve678613cd7fdd383@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4755A70D.5050800@hotpop.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> On Dec 4, 2007 1:10 PM, Ingles, Raymond <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:
>> We did that last weekend. My wife is hooked on MS Office, so we have a Windows machine.
>> But we got our Dell C521 before they offered XP as an option; it came with Vista. I've
>> already reported on the list the problems I had with it (sssslllloooowwww, and many games
>> simply would not work).
> 
> Some XP/Vista/Office2003/Office2007 benchmarks:  exo-blog.blogspot.com
> Apparently they are accurate because M$ are after them.


The MS EULA asserts (fraudulently, I believe) that you cannot
publish ANY benchmark results for MS products without approval
from MS.




From tmorris at ugs.com  Wed Dec  5 13:11:35 2007
From: tmorris at ugs.com (Morris, Tim)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 12:11:35 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: Re: [opensuse] vmware and fake scsi devs] SOLUTION
In-Reply-To: <4754D1BD.4010107@hotpop.com>
References: <4754D1BD.4010107@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E20407D434@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>

Ahhhhhh....

There's nothing better than sarcastic tech support.

--  Tim Morris - UGS PLM Software

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Kulkis
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 11:04 PM
To: mdlug at mdlug.org
Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: Re: [opensuse] vmware and fake scsi devs] SOLUTION



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [opensuse] vmware and fake scsi devs
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 00:09:38 -0300
From: Cristian Rodr?guez <crrodriguez at suse.de>
To: opensuse at opensuse.org
References: <200712031538.26426.kanenas at hawaii.rr.com>

kanenas at hawaii.rr.com escribi?:
> It seems there is one major downside to all the disks being "called" scsi 
> devices in 10.3.

There is no downside, error or annoyance, it is just a well known
change.. did you read the release notes ?

http://www.suse.com/relnotes/i386/openSUSE/10.3/RELEASE-NOTES.en.html#09

+
+ libata for IDE Devices
+
+ libata uses /dev/sda for the first harddisk instead of /dev/hda.
+ Disks with more than 15 partitions are not handled automatically
+ right now. You can disable libata support by booting with the
+ following kernel parameter:
+
+ hwprobe=-modules.pata
+
+ Then you see all the partitions > 15 again and can access them
+ for installation.



-- 
"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education." -
Albert Einstein

Cristian Rodr?guez R.
Platform/OpenSUSE - Core Services
SUSE LINUX Products GmbH
Research & Development
http://www.opensuse.org/



_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From tesral at comcast.net  Wed Dec  5 15:35:04 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:35:04 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Upgrading from Vista to XP
In-Reply-To: <4755A70D.5050800@hotpop.com>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACEB@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<b02c40e90712041052v618a1f7fve678613cd7fdd383@mail.gmail.com>
	<4755A70D.5050800@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <47570B78.8070500@comcast.net>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> The MS EULA asserts (fraudulently, I believe) that you cannot
> publish ANY benchmark results for MS products without approval
> from MS.

I do believe you are right, and they would be fools to push it.

Oh, wait, it's microsoft we are talking about.

I find it interesting they fear an objective measurement to that degree.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Wed Dec  5 21:43:19 2007
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 21:43:19 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] AntiSpam Tools
Message-ID: <001e01c837b1$c3001240$6401a8c0@AMD2000>

Sorry... I know this discussion came up yet again recently.  What are the 
latest anti-spam tools people are successfully running on their own mail 
domains?

-Mike



From ldaphelp at thuemmel.com  Wed Dec  5 21:52:41 2007
From: ldaphelp at thuemmel.com (Mark Thuemmel)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 21:52:41 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] AntiSpam Tools
In-Reply-To: <001e01c837b1$c3001240$6401a8c0@AMD2000>
References: <001e01c837b1$c3001240$6401a8c0@AMD2000>
Message-ID: <475763F9.9000605@thuemmel.com>

Michael ORourke wrote:
> Sorry... I know this discussion came up yet again recently.  What are the 
> latest anti-spam tools people are successfully running on their own mail 
> domains?
> 
> -Mike
> 

http://assp.sourceforge.net/ was easy to set up and works great on my
Postfix box.


From muteid10t at gmail.com  Wed Dec  5 21:56:01 2007
From: muteid10t at gmail.com (Ron Blanchett)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 21:56:01 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] AntiSpam Tools
In-Reply-To: <001e01c837b1$c3001240$6401a8c0@AMD2000>
References: <001e01c837b1$c3001240$6401a8c0@AMD2000>
Message-ID: <52995d720712051856l3026c379t4fa3e1ef1c398212@mail.gmail.com>

spamassassin, amavisd-new, & dnsbl via spamhaus.
At work we block about 1500+ emails a day with the dnsbl from spamhaus alone.
And we tag about another 150+ messages that get filtered into users
junk mail folders.
To date we have not had a false positive, spamassassin is set to tag
at a score of 6 or higher.

On 12/5/07, Michael ORourke <mrorourke at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Sorry... I know this discussion came up yet again recently.  What are the
> latest anti-spam tools people are successfully running on their own mail
> domains?
>
> -Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From mdlug3 at arb.net  Wed Dec  5 23:17:10 2007
From: mdlug3 at arb.net (Dave Arbogast)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 23:17:10 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] AntiSpam Tools
In-Reply-To: <001e01c837b1$c3001240$6401a8c0@AMD2000>
References: <001e01c837b1$c3001240$6401a8c0@AMD2000>
Message-ID: <475777C6.8040009@arb.net>

Hi Mike, I use Postfix with Spamassassin, but do several things up 
front. In the main.cf file I block SMTP handshakes from quite a few 
countries with:

smtpd_client_restrictions =
        permit_mynetworks,
        check_client_access hash:/etc/postfix/access,
        reject_unknown_client,
        reject_rbl_client sbl-xbl.spamhaus.org,
        reject_rbl_client zen.spamhaus.org,
        reject_rbl_client ae.countries.nerd.dk,
        reject_rbl_client am.countries.nerd.dk,
        reject_rbl_client ar.countries.nerd.dk,
        reject_rbl_client ao.countries.nerd.dk,
        reject_rbl_client ad.countries.nerd.dk,
and many more for countries I do not have friends / clients in. Of 
course the biggest offenders were CN, HK, KR, IT, JP, MX, and some 
former USSR countries. Notice the unknown client and spamhaus blocking. 
The good thing about this is there is little processing on my end as the 
message is never accepted. I also have some header restrictions for a 
few specific offenders and former addresses I had hosted - this too 
prevents processing at my end. I have some class B and C networks listed 
in the access list to block when they are problematic senders who pay 
enough money that their US ISP will not block them.

My domain has been out there since 1996, so there are many blasts to it 
hourly. I have the same email address now for about 6 or 7 years at my 
domain and now only get about 0 - 2 spams per day with these measures.

-dave

Michael ORourke wrote:

>Sorry... I know this discussion came up yet again recently.  What are the 
>latest anti-spam tools people are successfully running on their own mail 
>domains?
>
>-Mike
>
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>  
>


From relson at osagesoftware.com  Wed Dec  5 23:28:10 2007
From: relson at osagesoftware.com (David Relson)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 23:28:10 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] AntiSpam Tools
In-Reply-To: <001e01c837b1$c3001240$6401a8c0@AMD2000>
References: <001e01c837b1$c3001240$6401a8c0@AMD2000>
Message-ID: <20071205232810.54533df3@osage.osagesoftware.com>

On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 21:43:19 -0500
Michael ORourke wrote:

> Sorry... I know this discussion came up yet again recently.  What are
> the latest anti-spam tools people are successfully running on their
> own mail domains?
> 
> -Mike

I've been getting very good results with bogofilter
( http://sourceforge.net/projects/bogofilter/ ).  So far this month it
has correctly identified 99.98% of the spam. The single false negative
was a bounce message for a message with a forged return address.

Regards,

David

P.S. I'm the project lead.


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Thu Dec  6 02:15:26 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 02:15:26 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] AntiSpam Tools
In-Reply-To: <001e01c837b1$c3001240$6401a8c0@AMD2000>
References: <001e01c837b1$c3001240$6401a8c0@AMD2000>
Message-ID: <4757A18E.7020703@hotpop.com>

Michael ORourke wrote:
> Sorry... I know this discussion came up yet again recently.  What are the 
> latest anti-spam tools people are successfully running on their own mail 
> domains?

I like the Russian spam solution.

I get about 20 pieces of Russian-language spam every day.
Most of it is for stuff that people are actually interested
in, such as new housing developments, restaurants and
entertainment venues around Moscow, industrial products
(I recieved several for a poly-carbonate window maker).
About 50% is for business seminars: imports/exports, a lot
of classes for accountants, and some for head accountants.
ALL of this spam includes full contact information  --
not only legitimate e-mail reply addresses to reply to,
but also telephone numbers and street addresses.
Everything you would expect from legitimate business
advertisements.

However, about 2 years ago, I started getting some that
is more like the typical English-language spam, for the
same sorts of dubious come-ons, and similarly lacking
any contact information -- just the usual "click here
and give us your credit card info" type of stuff.

The Russian solution:  All of this nasty spam stopped
one day within hours after someone dumped his corpse
in an alley.




From millerc at cantonpl.org  Thu Dec  6 08:16:36 2007
From: millerc at cantonpl.org (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 08:16:36 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] AntiSpam Tools
In-Reply-To: <001e01c837b1$c3001240$6401a8c0@AMD2000>
References: <001e01c837b1$c3001240$6401a8c0@AMD2000>
Message-ID: <27320.216.144.215.245.1196946996.squirrel@mail.cantonpl.org>

Michael ORourke wrote:
> Sorry... I know this discussion came up yet again recently.  What are the
> latest anti-spam tools people are successfully running on their own mail
> domains?

ASSP.  It works very well!  Especially if you want to filter email
for an entire domain.  I've got 100's of people who have forgotten
what spam looks like.

c




From radkins at impelind.com  Thu Dec  6 08:17:04 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 08:17:04 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] AntiSpam Tools
In-Reply-To: <4757A18E.7020703@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <20071206132413.E740A14143@impelind.com>

> 
> I like the Russian spam solution.

Snip

> 
> The Russian solution:  All of this nasty spam stopped one day 
> within hours after someone dumped his corpse in an alley.
> 

	I read about this case. It wasn't exactly altruism that won the day.

	The death has been linked to Russian organized crime. It appears
that regardless of what you do, if you actually ignore those "Pay us
protection, or else" statements from Russian Organized Crime, they will
quite brutally, physically beat you to death.

	Nobody, not even a spam king deserves that.

	-Rob



From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Thu Dec  6 02:06:30 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 02:06:30 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: Re: [opensuse] vmware and fake scsi devs] SOLUTION
In-Reply-To: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E20407D434@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
References: <4754D1BD.4010107@hotpop.com>
	<B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E20407D434@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
Message-ID: <47579F76.2080302@hotpop.com>

Morris, Tim wrote:
> Ahhhhhh....
> 
> There's nothing better than sarcastic tech support.
> 

You mean there's another kind?

> --  Tim Morris - UGS PLM Software
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Kulkis
> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 11:04 PM
> To: mdlug at mdlug.org
> Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: Re: [opensuse] vmware and fake scsi devs] SOLUTION
> 
> 
> 
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [opensuse] vmware and fake scsi devs
> Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 00:09:38 -0300
> From: Cristian Rodr?guez <crrodriguez at suse.de>
> To: opensuse at opensuse.org
> References: <200712031538.26426.kanenas at hawaii.rr.com>
> 
> kanenas at hawaii.rr.com escribi?:
>> It seems there is one major downside to all the disks being "called" scsi 
>> devices in 10.3.
> 
> There is no downside, error or annoyance, it is just a well known
> change.. did you read the release notes ?
> 
> http://www.suse.com/relnotes/i386/openSUSE/10.3/RELEASE-NOTES.en.html#09
> 
> +
> + libata for IDE Devices
> +
> + libata uses /dev/sda for the first harddisk instead of /dev/hda.
> + Disks with more than 15 partitions are not handled automatically
> + right now. You can disable libata support by booting with the
> + following kernel parameter:
> +
> + hwprobe=-modules.pata
> +
> + Then you see all the partitions > 15 again and can access them
> + for installation.
> 
> 
> 





From rrclark at rrclark.net  Thu Dec  6 15:20:21 2007
From: rrclark at rrclark.net (Rich Clark <rrclark@rrclark.net>)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 15:20:21 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Linux is "greener"
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACED@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACED@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.c
	pwr.corp>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.0.81.0712061518301.26893@rich.rrclark.net>

On Tue, 4 Dec 2007, Ingles, Raymond wrote:

>  Well, it certainly *can* be faster, and usually is. But recent distros 
> of Linux can be pretty darn memory-hungry. The latest Ubuntu is a bit 
> sluggish on our "new-to-us" laptop with 384MB of RAM. I'm working on 
> ways to trim the fat off; I might look at Xubuntu.

Even Windows would be sluggish with only 384MB RAM. You might want to get 
a stick of RAM for that machine since it's pretty cheap for a GB.

>  That being said, Linux's 'sweet spot' seems to be around 512MB of RAM. For
> XP, it seems to need about double that, 1GB.
>
>  Of course, I recall when Linux with 16MB RAM was faster than Windows with
> 32MB... :->

I fear that Linux will be faster on anything when compared to running 
Windows.  Windows == bloatware.


From radkins at impelind.com  Thu Dec  6 15:22:24 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 15:22:24 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Linux is "greener"
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.0.81.0712061518301.26893@rich.rrclark.net>
Message-ID: <20071206202935.D177314143@impelind.com>


> On Tue, 4 Dec 2007, Ingles, Raymond wrote:
> 
> >  Well, it certainly *can* be faster, and usually is. But recent 
> > distros of Linux can be pretty darn memory-hungry. The 
> latest Ubuntu 
> > is a bit sluggish on our "new-to-us" laptop with 384MB of RAM. I'm 
> > working on ways to trim the fat off; I might look at Xubuntu.
> 
> Even Windows would be sluggish with only 384MB RAM. You might 
> want to get a stick of RAM for that machine since it's pretty 
> cheap for a GB.
> 
> >  That being said, Linux's 'sweet spot' seems to be around 512MB of 
> > RAM. For XP, it seems to need about double that, 1GB.
> >
> >  Of course, I recall when Linux with 16MB RAM was faster 
> than Windows 
> > with 32MB... :->
> 
> I fear that Linux will be faster on anything when compared to 
> running Windows.  Windows == bloatware.

	Linux still would run faster. Nobody says that you MUST use a GUI or
install every single service under the sun in order to run Linux.

	Although, who would really want to do that in this day and age when
there is so much hardware available for so relatively few dollars these
days.

	-Rob



From rrclark at rrclark.net  Thu Dec  6 15:31:53 2007
From: rrclark at rrclark.net (Rich Clark <rrclark@rrclark.net>)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 15:31:53 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] AntiSpam Tools
In-Reply-To: <475777C6.8040009@arb.net>
References: <001e01c837b1$c3001240$6401a8c0@AMD2000> <475777C6.8040009@arb.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.0.81.0712061531100.26893@rich.rrclark.net>

On Wed, 5 Dec 2007, Dave Arbogast wrote:

> Hi Mike, I use Postfix with Spamassassin, but do several things up 
> front. In the main.cf file I block SMTP handshakes from quite a few 
> countries with:
> 
> smtpd_client_restrictions =
>         permit_mynetworks,
>         check_client_access hash:/etc/postfix/access,
>         reject_unknown_client,
>         reject_rbl_client sbl-xbl.spamhaus.org,
>         reject_rbl_client zen.spamhaus.org,
>         reject_rbl_client ae.countries.nerd.dk,
>         reject_rbl_client am.countries.nerd.dk,
>         reject_rbl_client ar.countries.nerd.dk,
>         reject_rbl_client ao.countries.nerd.dk,
>         reject_rbl_client ad.countries.nerd.dk,
> and many more for countries I do not have friends / clients in. Of 
> course the biggest offenders were CN, HK, KR, IT, JP, MX, and some 
> former USSR countries. Notice the unknown client and spamhaus blocking. 
> The good thing about this is there is little processing on my end as the 
> message is never accepted. I also have some header restrictions for a 
> few specific offenders and former addresses I had hosted - this too 
> prevents processing at my end. I have some class B and C networks listed 
> in the access list to block when they are problematic senders who pay 
> enough money that their US ISP will not block them.
> 
> My domain has been out there since 1996, so there are many blasts to it 
> hourly. I have the same email address now for about 6 or 7 years at my 
> domain and now only get about 0 - 2 spams per day with these measures.

Grin... sounds like my own setup and results. Highly recommended. Get 
FuzzyOCR and RulesDuJour plugins for spamassassin and add to the fun.


From admin at linuxtechdaily.com  Thu Dec  6 15:35:01 2007
From: admin at linuxtechdaily.com (Rich Hughes)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 15:35:01 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Sourceforge sell out?
Message-ID: <47585CF5.7010000@linuxtechdaily.com>

Have you guys seen this:

http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php

If you host a project at Sourceforge you can now sell support, and they
keep 10%. I've read a bunch of comments where people are getting their
panties all up in a bunch about this, saying SF has sold out. I don't
see the downside, and I'd be happy to see people make money off the
software they put up.

I mainly lurk here, and was interested in what you guys thought. The
conversations have been very interesting and informative in here for the
last few months.

Take care,
Rich H


From radkins at impelind.com  Thu Dec  6 15:36:46 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 15:36:46 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Sourceforge sell out?
In-Reply-To: <47585CF5.7010000@linuxtechdaily.com>
Message-ID: <20071206204358.A1BBE14143@impelind.com>

I see absolutely no problem with it.

You can make money off your project, they continue to host your project and
provide a strong central contact location as well as some level of back-up
to your project.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with them receiving a cut of the take as
they are providing a very useful service.

It's not like they are saying, "If you offer support you must now pay use
$1,500 a month, every month or we erase all traces of your project forever."

They are acting like a consignment house. They get paid if and when you get
paid.

I have trouble seeing why anyone should have a problem with that.

-Rob



> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Rich Hughes
> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 3:35 PM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: [mdlug] Sourceforge sell out?
> 
> Have you guys seen this:
> 
> http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php
> 
> If you host a project at Sourceforge you can now sell 
> support, and they keep 10%. I've read a bunch of comments 
> where people are getting their panties all up in a bunch 
> about this, saying SF has sold out. I don't see the downside, 
> and I'd be happy to see people make money off the software 
> they put up.
> 
> I mainly lurk here, and was interested in what you guys 
> thought. The conversations have been very interesting and 
> informative in here for the last few months.
> 
> Take care,
> Rich H
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 



From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Tue Dec  4 17:06:37 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 17:06:37 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Linux is "greener"
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACED@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACED@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <4755CF6D.9070004@hotpop.com>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>> From: Jeff Hanson
> 
>> Not only is Linux faster on old systems but there isn't any of the
>> licensing hassles and restrictions that accompany the M$ "Software
>> Donation Program"
> 
>  Well, it certainly *can* be faster, and usually is. But recent distros of
> Linux can be pretty darn memory-hungry. The latest Ubuntu is a bit sluggish
> on our "new-to-us" laptop with 384MB of RAM. I'm working on ways to trim the
> fat off; I might look at Xubuntu.
> 
>  That being said, Linux's 'sweet spot' seems to be around 512MB of RAM. For
> XP, it seems to need about double that, 1GB.

Ah, you just don't have enough applications open -- especially
web-browsers!



> 
>  Of course, I recall when Linux with 16MB RAM was faster than Windows with
> 32MB... :->

I remember when 16MB of RAM was good to run 50 users simultaneously...





From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Thu Dec  6 16:41:41 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 16:41:41 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Linux is "greener"
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.0.81.0712061518301.26893@rich.rrclark.net>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACFA@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Rich Clark <rrclark at rrclark.net>

> Even Windows would be sluggish with only 384MB RAM. You might want to get 
> a stick of RAM for that machine since it's pretty cheap for a GB.

 It's a Dell Inspiron 2650; it can only handle 512MB max. I already bumped it up
from 256MB. Replacing the second memory module is much harder, though... I'd have
to literally dismantle the entire laptop.

 Not a project I'm likely to tackle anytime soon. I have many other projects
demanding my attention, most of them non-computer-related.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                               (313) 227-2317

 "The meek can *have* the Earth. The rest of us are going to the stars!"
                        - Robert A. Heinlein
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From radkins at impelind.com  Thu Dec  6 16:47:35 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 16:47:35 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Linux is "greener"
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACFA@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <20071206215447.46E3F14143@impelind.com>


> 
> > From: Rich Clark <rrclark at rrclark.net>
> 
> > Even Windows would be sluggish with only 384MB RAM. You 
> might want to 
> > get a stick of RAM for that machine since it's pretty cheap 
> for a GB.
> 
>  It's a Dell Inspiron 2650; it can only handle 512MB max. I 
> already bumped it up from 256MB. Replacing the second memory 
> module is much harder, though... I'd have to literally 
> dismantle the entire laptop.
> 
>  Not a project I'm likely to tackle anytime soon. I have many 
> other projects demanding my attention, most of them 
> non-computer-related.
> 

	It's not that hard.

	You have to lift up the keyboard, which is very easy to do, once you
have done it enough times on enough laptops.

	To do that, you might need to open up the laptop, flat like a book,
gently pry the plastic bits that are attached to the base of the laptop and
cover/protect the hinge.

	Once that is up, there are likely two screws holding the keyboard in
place, lift that up and then you can unscrew the EMI shielding and reveal
the RAM.

	This shouldn't take more than 5 minutes to do.

	-Rob



From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Thu Dec  6 17:04:45 2007
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 17:04:45 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] AntiSpam Tools
References: <001e01c837b1$c3001240$6401a8c0@AMD2000>
Message-ID: <00bd01c83854$03393bf0$6401a8c0@AMD2000>

Thanks for all the replies!

Here's a summary of the responses so far:
1. Spamassassin (with FuzzyOCR & RulesDuJour)
2. ASSP
3. dnsbl via spamhaus
4. bogofilter
5. Russian mafia

I think I'm going to steer clear of option #5 for obvious reasons.  I've 
setup Spamassassin a long time ago, and I remember having to do quite a bit 
of tweaking to get it working well.  I think I'm gonna try ASSP this time. 
Thanks again for all the replies.

-Mike


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael ORourke" <mrorourke at earthlink.net>
To: "MDLUG's main mailing list" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 9:43 PM
Subject: [mdlug] AntiSpam Tools


> Sorry... I know this discussion came up yet again recently.  What are the
> latest anti-spam tools people are successfully running on their own mail
> domains?
>
> -Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.14/1172 - Release Date: 
> 12/5/2007 8:41 AM
>
> 



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Dec  6 17:29:24 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 17:29:24 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Gift ideas
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712061429q24da9cb9t6b0ecbb6490d553@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2007/12/05/geek-gift-guide-2007/

I love the wifi shirt.


From tesral at comcast.net  Thu Dec  6 17:51:11 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 17:51:11 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Linux is "greener"
In-Reply-To: <20071206215447.46E3F14143@impelind.com>
References: <20071206215447.46E3F14143@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <47587CDF.1070700@comcast.net>

Robert Adkins wrote:
>>> From: Rich Clark <rrclark at rrclark.net>
>>>       
>>> Even Windows would be sluggish with only 384MB RAM. You 
>>>       
>> might want to 
>>     
>>> get a stick of RAM for that machine since it's pretty cheap 
>>>       
>> for a GB.
>>
>>  It's a Dell Inspiron 2650; it can only handle 512MB max. I 
>> already bumped it up from 256MB. Replacing the second memory 
>> module is much harder, though... I'd have to literally 
>> dismantle the entire laptop.
>>
>>  Not a project I'm likely to tackle anytime soon. I have many 
>> other projects demanding my attention, most of them 
>> non-computer-related.
>>
>>     
>
> 	It's not that hard.
>
> 	You have to lift up the keyboard, which is very easy to do, once you
> have done it enough times on enough laptops.
>
> 	To do that, you might need to open up the laptop, flat like a book,
> gently pry the plastic bits that are attached to the base of the laptop and
> cover/protect the hinge.
>
> 	Once that is up, there are likely two screws holding the keyboard in
> place, lift that up and then you can unscrew the EMI shielding and reveal
> the RAM.
>
> 	This shouldn't take more than 5 minutes to do.
>   

Find and download the maintenance manual, it saves a great deal of
headaches.  Even different models from different manufacturers are
different.  The screws you need to take off can be in odd locations. 
Some parts need to move before other parts.


-- 
Garry AKA --Phoenix-- Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com


From wolfger at gmail.com  Thu Dec  6 18:51:18 2007
From: wolfger at gmail.com (Wolfger)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 18:51:18 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Sourceforge sell out?
In-Reply-To: <20071206204358.A1BBE14143@impelind.com>
References: <47585CF5.7010000@linuxtechdaily.com>
	<20071206204358.A1BBE14143@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <3b00b3330712061551n6a7b4aa4hf0687fb6e0ee0e3d@mail.gmail.com>

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

On Dec 6, 2007 3:36 PM, Robert Adkins <radkins at impelind.com> wrote:
> I see absolutely no problem with it.
>
> You can make money off your project, they continue to host your project and
> provide a strong central contact location as well as some level of back-up
> to your project.
>
> There is absolutely nothing wrong with them receiving a cut of the take as
> they are providing a very useful service.
>
> It's not like they are saying, "If you offer support you must now pay use
> $1,500 a month, every month or we erase all traces of your project forever."
>
> They are acting like a consignment house. They get paid if and when you get
> paid.
>
> I have trouble seeing why anyone should have a problem with that.
>
> -Rob
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org
> > [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Rich Hughes
> > Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 3:35 PM
> > To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> > Subject: [mdlug] Sourceforge sell out?
> >
> > Have you guys seen this:
> >
> > http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php
> >
> > If you host a project at Sourceforge you can now sell
> > support, and they keep 10%. I've read a bunch of comments
> > where people are getting their panties all up in a bunch
> > about this, saying SF has sold out. I don't see the downside,
> > and I'd be happy to see people make money off the software
> > they put up.
> >
> > I mainly lurk here, and was interested in what you guys
> > thought. The conversations have been very interesting and
> > informative in here for the last few months.
> >
> > Take care,
> > Rich H
> > _______________________________________________
> > mdlug mailing list
> > mdlug at mdlug.org
> > http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>



-- 
Wolfger
http://wolfger.wordpress.com/
AOL IM: wolf4coyot
Yahoo!Messenger: wolfgersilberbaer


From rrclark at rrclark.net  Thu Dec  6 19:05:02 2007
From: rrclark at rrclark.net (Rich Clark <rrclark@rrclark.net>)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 19:05:02 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Linux is "greener"
In-Reply-To: <20071206215447.46E3F14143@impelind.com>
References: <20071206215447.46E3F14143@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.0.81.0712061901590.26893@rich.rrclark.net>

On Thu, 6 Dec 2007, Robert Adkins wrote:

> 
> > 
> > > From: Rich Clark <rrclark at rrclark.net>
> > 
> > > Even Windows would be sluggish with only 384MB RAM. You 
> > might want to 
> > > get a stick of RAM for that machine since it's pretty cheap 
> > for a GB.
> > 
> >  It's a Dell Inspiron 2650; it can only handle 512MB max. I 
> > already bumped it up from 256MB. Replacing the second memory 
> > module is much harder, though... I'd have to literally 
> > dismantle the entire laptop.
> > 
> >  Not a project I'm likely to tackle anytime soon. I have many 
> > other projects demanding my attention, most of them 
> > non-computer-related.
> > 
>
> 	It's not that hard.
>
> 	You have to lift up the keyboard, which is very easy to do, once you
> have done it enough times on enough laptops.
>
> 	To do that, you might need to open up the laptop, flat like a book,
> gently pry the plastic bits that are attached to the base of the laptop and
> cover/protect the hinge.
>
> 	Once that is up, there are likely two screws holding the keyboard in
> place, lift that up and then you can unscrew the EMI shielding and reveal
> the RAM.
>
> 	This shouldn't take more than 5 minutes to do.

I confirm; the laptops I have here open up in the same manner. One has a 
slide on the top of the base near the hinges, and you just slide it to the 
right, lift it away, and then pull the keyboard up and back. The other 
laptops access the memory slots through a removable cover panel on the 
bottom of the machine.


From tesral at comcast.net  Thu Dec  6 20:54:42 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 20:54:42 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] doing the Samba.
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380711301902p3a8b653v634d566cbde4e843@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380711301902p3a8b653v634d566cbde4e843@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4758A7E2.1010304@comcast.net>

Does someone have the simple as in ABC method of setting up Samba on my
Linux box to share a single Fat32 drive with my XP box?  Remember KISS. 
Keep It Simple for Stupid.

I have installed Samba on Gate, I figured that would be step one.  The
XP machine is named Faux if that is important.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Dec  6 21:22:14 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 21:22:14 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] doing the Samba.
In-Reply-To: <4758A7E2.1010304@comcast.net>
References: <b67fb0380711301902p3a8b653v634d566cbde4e843@mail.gmail.com>
	<4758A7E2.1010304@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712061822m47052a40iea8d48cd7d21ec29@mail.gmail.com>

On Dec 6, 2007 8:54 PM, Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:
> Does someone have the simple as in ABC method of setting up Samba on my
> Linux box to share a single Fat32 drive with my XP box?  Remember KISS.
> Keep It Simple for Stupid.
>
> I have installed Samba on Gate, I figured that would be step one.  The
> XP machine is named Faux if that is important.

If you don't have a login server to keep track of accounts and
passwords, you can set up an unauthenticated peer-peer config.  On
Ubuntu, in /etc/samba/smb.conf:

[global]
   guest ok = yes
   map to guest = bad user
   guest account = nobody
   invalid users = root

This lets anyone access the shares - XP user without an account,
anyone on your LAN, wireless, and the entire Internet if you don't
have a firewall.  You still have to set up a share for the drive.

[sharename]
path = /media/fat32drive
available = yes
browsable = yes
public = yes
writable = yes


From danno at umich.edu  Thu Dec  6 21:35:38 2007
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 21:35:38 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Linux is "greener"
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.0.81.0712061518301.26893@rich.rrclark.net>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACED@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<alpine.LRH.0.81.0712061518301.26893@rich.rrclark.net>
Message-ID: <20071207023538.GA80675@maniac.deathstar.org>

On Thu, Dec 06, 2007 at 03:20:21PM -0500, Rich Clark <rrclark at rrclark.net> wrote:
> 
> Even Windows would be sluggish with only 384MB RAM. You might want to get 
> a stick of RAM for that machine since it's pretty cheap for a GB.
> 
> >  That being said, Linux's 'sweet spot' seems to be around 512MB of RAM. For
> > XP, it seems to need about double that, 1GB.
> >
> >  Of course, I recall when Linux with 16MB RAM was faster than Windows with
> > 32MB... :->
> 
> I fear that Linux will be faster on anything when compared to running 
> Windows.  Windows == bloatware.

I run XP on a P3-600 with 256M ram.  I have disabled various
components (notably themes) to get there, but the system is very
usable for web browsing, mail, general office apps, etc.

I could also do this with linux, of course - but i would similarly have
to strip out a bunch of gunk that wouldn't fit (like, KDE or Gnome).

the "windows = bloat" meme is certainly based on lots of truth - but 
the modern linux desktop is playing a great game of catch-up.

now, fvwm on a 25MHz sparcstation IPC with a whopping 16MB ram under
SunOS 4.1.3...that was quite responsive and definitely not bloated.
ALthough sadly lacking in most of the GUI applications we take for
granted nowadays.

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From tmorris at ugs.com  Thu Dec  6 21:38:21 2007
From: tmorris at ugs.com (Morris, Tim)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 20:38:21 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] SUSPECT: RE:  Sourceforge sell out?
In-Reply-To: <3b00b3330712061551n6a7b4aa4hf0687fb6e0ee0e3d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47585CF5.7010000@linuxtechdaily.com><20071206204358.A1BBE14143@impelind.com>
	<3b00b3330712061551n6a7b4aa4hf0687fb6e0ee0e3d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E20407D44D@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>

But it's not free!!!

OMG!!!!

It must be EVIL!!!

--  Tim Morris - UGS PLM Software

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Wolfger
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 6:51 PM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Sourceforge sell out?

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

On Dec 6, 2007 3:36 PM, Robert Adkins <radkins at impelind.com> wrote:
> I see absolutely no problem with it.
>
> You can make money off your project, they continue to host your
project and
> provide a strong central contact location as well as some level of
back-up
> to your project.
>
> There is absolutely nothing wrong with them receiving a cut of the
take as
> they are providing a very useful service.
>
> It's not like they are saying, "If you offer support you must now pay
use
> $1,500 a month, every month or we erase all traces of your project
forever."
>
> They are acting like a consignment house. They get paid if and when
you get
> paid.
>
> I have trouble seeing why anyone should have a problem with that.
>
> -Rob
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org
> > [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Rich Hughes
> > Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 3:35 PM
> > To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> > Subject: [mdlug] Sourceforge sell out?
> >
> > Have you guys seen this:
> >
> > http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php
> >
> > If you host a project at Sourceforge you can now sell
> > support, and they keep 10%. I've read a bunch of comments
> > where people are getting their panties all up in a bunch
> > about this, saying SF has sold out. I don't see the downside,
> > and I'd be happy to see people make money off the software
> > they put up.
> >
> > I mainly lurk here, and was interested in what you guys
> > thought. The conversations have been very interesting and
> > informative in here for the last few months.
> >
> > Take care,
> > Rich H
> > _______________________________________________
> > mdlug mailing list
> > mdlug at mdlug.org
> > http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>



-- 
Wolfger
http://wolfger.wordpress.com/
AOL IM: wolf4coyot
Yahoo!Messenger: wolfgersilberbaer
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From tmorris at ugs.com  Thu Dec  6 21:34:01 2007
From: tmorris at ugs.com (Morris, Tim)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 20:34:01 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] Remotely Use Linux
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACEA@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <1196205102.8812.5.camel@bemus-tony>
	<41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACEA@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E20407D44C@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>

You can get an installer/uninstaller from here:

<http://www.kood.org/terminal-server-patch/>

One thing to keep in mind... I am told that the XP license only allows a
single user (haven't read it :), therefore using any of the termserver
patches to allow concurrent logins would (theoretically) violate the
EULA. I've been told this, I have not looked into it at all, since I
don't use the patch.

--  Tim Morris - UGS PLM Software

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Ingles, Raymond
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 1:06 PM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Remotely Use Linux

I discovered a trick for Windows XP. Normally, it does not allow anyone
to be logged
onto the desktop if someone is using the Remote Desktop feature; indeed,
it will kick
off anyone using the desktop if a remote connection is set up.

 However... beta versions of XP SP2 did not impose such a limit.
Googling for "Remote
Desktop XP Concurrent Sessions" will turn up copies of the beta
termsrv.dll and how
to apply it.

 Now the kids can be playing web games or whatever on the machine while
my wife does
work for her bakery on the laptop. Linux has a nice RDP client... :->

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                              (313) 227-2317

 "You don't *understand* quantum mechanics, you just *get used to it*."
                          - Richard Feynman
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only.
It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the
named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it,
or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify
us immediately and then destroy it.
_______________________________________________
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http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Dec  6 21:50:27 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 21:50:27 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Linux is "greener"
In-Reply-To: <20071207023538.GA80675@maniac.deathstar.org>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACED@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<alpine.LRH.0.81.0712061518301.26893@rich.rrclark.net>
	<20071207023538.GA80675@maniac.deathstar.org>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712061850v3fc5326cu4a9144bd5b4d6111@mail.gmail.com>

My standard practice RAM minimums for Firefox and OOo:

Win98SE:  256MB (VMware, 128MB native)
XP SP2:  512MB (VMware, 384MB native)
Xubuntu:  128MB
Ubuntu:  256MB

Actual experience depends CPU and hard drive performance because of
swap.  I deal with a lot of older hardware so a less responsive system
is tolerable.  In practice, Win98SE is faster than Xubuntu with
multimedia but the fundamental weaknesses of the Windows architecture
means practically no security and any driver problem will lock the
system.


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Thu Dec  6 15:14:44 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 15:14:44 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] AntiSpam Tools
In-Reply-To: <20071206132413.E740A14143@impelind.com>
References: <20071206132413.E740A14143@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <47585834.1010509@hotpop.com>

Robert Adkins wrote:
>> I like the Russian spam solution.
> 
> Snip
> 
>> The Russian solution:  All of this nasty spam stopped one day 
>> within hours after someone dumped his corpse in an alley.
>>
> 
> 	I read about this case. It wasn't exactly altruism that won the day.
> 
> 	The death has been linked to Russian organized crime. It appears
> that regardless of what you do, if you actually ignore those "Pay us
> protection, or else" statements from Russian Organized Crime, they will
> quite brutally, physically beat you to death.

But of course, if you don't deal with shady people,
and work only with legitimate businesses (such as
the other Russian-language spam I described), then
you really don't have to worry about dealing with
organized criminals or protection money, do you.

By the way, the "Russian Mafia" is mostly a figment
of the western journalists' imagination.  When you
have a population which for decades was taught that
anyone who makes a profit is a criminal, then any
successful businessman is reflexively branded as
mafia by most Russians who were born before 1970
or so.  Most organized crime in Russia is political,
not economic.

While there are some shake-down operations, and
apparently some kidnapping of women who are sold
into enslavement as prostitutes, the overwhelming
majority of this activity is centered in Ukraine,
not Russia.

In Russia, the closest equivalent is large bribes
for government officials.  However, this is not
as bad nor corrupt as it sounds to most Americans --
typically (and historically for centuries), Russian
bureaucrats were very poorly paid -- their government
salaries were meager (if they were even paid at all
by the Czar's government), as they were EXPECTED to
live primarily from bribes.


What I find very interesting, is that, in three
visits to Russia, people who I have heard called
"mafia" were actually going out of their way to
aid and protect tourists.



> 
> 	Nobody, not even a spam king deserves that.
> 

Really?

The productivity losses that all of us incur for THEIR
benefit is nothing short of slavery.  I can think of
nothing more fitting than death for those who enslave
others.

> 	-Rob
> 




From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Thu Dec  6 16:28:54 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 16:28:54 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Sourceforge sell out?
In-Reply-To: <47585CF5.7010000@linuxtechdaily.com>
References: <47585CF5.7010000@linuxtechdaily.com>
Message-ID: <47586996.4040103@hotpop.com>

Rich Hughes wrote:
> Have you guys seen this:
> 
> http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php
> 
> If you host a project at Sourceforge you can now sell support, and they
> keep 10%. I've read a bunch of comments where people are getting their
> panties all up in a bunch about this, saying SF has sold out. I don't
> see the downside, and I'd be happy to see people make money off the
> software they put up.

Evidently these people believe that

1) People with expertise in supporting application X shouldn't
    have a venue to sell their services
and

2) That it doesn't cost real-world money to host the
    sourceforge website, which is by now VERY substantial
    in size and bandwidth usage, neither of which is free
    in the real world.
> 
> I mainly lurk here, and was interested in what you guys thought. The
> conversations have been very interesting and informative in here for the
> last few months.

I think the people complaining about others selling support
services, and sourceforge getting a commission are a bunch
of whiners living in their parents' basements.




From radkins at impelind.com  Fri Dec  7 08:10:28 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 08:10:28 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] doing the Samba.
In-Reply-To: <4758A7E2.1010304@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20071207131741.E7CB614143@impelind.com>

What distro are you using?

OpenSuSe has a sweet Samba configuration element in Yast2. I believe that it
will also allow you to setup Samba to act as a Windows Domain Controller.

Barring that, Webmin has a very easy to grok applet for configuring Samba.

It is seriously, one of the simplest of services to setup.

The only thing you need to really be aware of is that you might setup users
to have access to Share X. They would still need to be in a UNIX group that
has access to the files/folders on S
Share X.

-Rob

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Garry Stahl
> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 8:55 PM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: [mdlug] doing the Samba.
> 
> Does someone have the simple as in ABC method of setting up 
> Samba on my Linux box to share a single Fat32 drive with my 
> XP box?  Remember KISS. 
> Keep It Simple for Stupid.
> 
> I have installed Samba on Gate, I figured that would be step 
> one.  The XP machine is named Faux if that is important.
> 
> --
> Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.
> 
> Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes Star Trek mort. 
> Viva la Star Trek admiraetur The Olde Phoenix Inn 
> Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 



From radkins at impelind.com  Fri Dec  7 08:11:33 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 08:11:33 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] SUSPECT: RE:  Sourceforge sell out?
In-Reply-To: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E20407D44D@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
Message-ID: <20071207131846.0C08414143@impelind.com>


That is honestly, one of the two sentiments that many in the OSS community
have that tends to get my boxers all bunched up.

-Rob

> 
> But it's not free!!!
> 
> OMG!!!!
> 
> It must be EVIL!!!
> 
> --  Tim Morris - UGS PLM Software
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Wolfger
> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 6:51 PM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Sourceforge sell out?
> 
> Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.
> 
> On Dec 6, 2007 3:36 PM, Robert Adkins <radkins at impelind.com> wrote:
> > I see absolutely no problem with it.
> >
> > You can make money off your project, they continue to host your
> project and
> > provide a strong central contact location as well as some level of
> back-up
> > to your project.
> >
> > There is absolutely nothing wrong with them receiving a cut of the
> take as
> > they are providing a very useful service.
> >
> > It's not like they are saying, "If you offer support you 
> must now pay
> use
> > $1,500 a month, every month or we erase all traces of your project
> forever."
> >
> > They are acting like a consignment house. They get paid if and when
> you get
> > paid.
> >
> > I have trouble seeing why anyone should have a problem with that.
> >
> > -Rob
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org
> > > [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Rich Hughes
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 3:35 PM
> > > To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> > > Subject: [mdlug] Sourceforge sell out?
> > >
> > > Have you guys seen this:
> > >
> > > http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php
> > >
> > > If you host a project at Sourceforge you can now sell 
> support, and 
> > > they keep 10%. I've read a bunch of comments where people are 
> > > getting their panties all up in a bunch about this, saying SF has 
> > > sold out. I don't see the downside, and I'd be happy to 
> see people 
> > > make money off the software they put up.
> > >
> > > I mainly lurk here, and was interested in what you guys 
> thought. The 
> > > conversations have been very interesting and informative 
> in here for 
> > > the last few months.
> > >
> > > Take care,
> > > Rich H
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > mdlug mailing list
> > > mdlug at mdlug.org
> > > http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > mdlug mailing list
> > mdlug at mdlug.org
> > http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> >
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Wolfger
> http://wolfger.wordpress.com/
> AOL IM: wolf4coyot
> Yahoo!Messenger: wolfgersilberbaer
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Fri Dec  7 09:59:52 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 09:59:52 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Linux is "greener"
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.0.81.0712061901590.26893@rich.rrclark.net>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACFD@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Rich Clark <rrclark at rrclark.net>

> I confirm; the laptops I have here open up in the same manner. One has a 
> slide on the top of the base near the hinges, and you just slide it to the 
> right, lift it away, and then pull the keyboard up and back. 

 It's not *quite* that simple with this one. It has two slots, one at the bottom
of the machine (easy to upgrade and I already had a chip that would work) and also
one deep inside, under the keyboard - and it looks like you have to yank the video
card, too, to get at it. (This laptop is unusual in that it has a removeable video
card.)

 Don't get me wrong - I've done this before on another laptop. It's hardly
impossible, but I'm cautious; I need to make sure I have time to devote to the
process if something goes wrong. (Changing out a broken screen in my Palm Treo
took a few weeks because the connection was *much* more finicky than it should
have been.) We have four kids and the holidays are fast approaching.

 When and if I bump up the memory, I will also put in a 16MB video card (to
replace the 8MB one in there now) - but that'll have to wait until I have
some xmas money to play with...

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                           (313) 227-2317

   Microsoft Windows - Dissatisfaction guaranteed.
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From admin at linuxtechdaily.com  Fri Dec  7 10:03:59 2007
From: admin at linuxtechdaily.com (Rich Hughes)
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 10:03:59 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Processors and Thugs
Message-ID: <475960DF.4090208@linuxtechdaily.com>

Hey everyone,

I don't know that this is appropriate for the list or not, it should be
okay but just let me know if it isn't. I can take it.

I'm reviewing a barebones kit for my site. The processor is a Pentium 4
3.4GHz. I'm writing the review from the perspective that one benefit to
using linux is you can use older, thus cheaper, technology and have it
fly. This kit came with an awesome motherboard, 1 gig of ram, the
processor that I mentioned, case + 300W power supply (low, but has been
solid), wireless mouse and kb, cd rom and floppy for $189. I feel that
this is a powerhouse machine. To get it up and running, I installed
opensuse 10.3, and everything flies on it. With ram so cheap I can
easily dump more in and this thing will move even faster.

My question to the group is this: am I right that for everyday desktop
usage that this is a great processor? I'm looking at it related to an
earlier thread here. Sure, dual and quad core are great, but if you want
a great system at a low price then this is the way to go. Us linux users
are a tough bunch, though, and I don't want to post this review and have
some smart thugs beat me up and getting all "LOL P4". Is there that much
of a disadvantage using a P4 as oppossed to later dual and quad cores
when looking at what typical users do (surf the web, burn movies, etc...) ?

Sorry for the novel. That is why I don't post much here. I'm long winded.

Thanks,
Rich H


From tesral at comcast.net  Fri Dec  7 10:13:16 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 10:13:16 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Processors and Thugs
In-Reply-To: <475960DF.4090208@linuxtechdaily.com>
References: <475960DF.4090208@linuxtechdaily.com>
Message-ID: <4759630C.8060300@comcast.net>

Rich Hughes wrote:
> This kit came with an awesome motherboard, 1 gig of ram, the
> processor that I mentioned, case + 300W power supply (low, but has been
> solid), wireless mouse and kb, cd rom and floppy for $189. I feel that
> this is a powerhouse machine. To get it up and running, I installed
> opensuse 10.3, and everything flies on it. With ram so cheap I can
> easily dump more in and this thing will move even faster.
>
> My question to the group is this: am I right that for everyday desktop
> usage that this is a great processor? 

I'm still cranking out on a 1.8 gig.  On the principle that more is
better, yea, for desktop work that will soar like an Eagle (Provided you
don't put a Vista anvil on it.)  I wouldn't complain about that system
at all.

Normal desktop work doesn't require huge amounts of horsepower.  It's
nice to have and I don't know anyone that would turn it down. 

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Fri Dec  7 10:16:47 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 10:16:47 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Processors and Thugs
In-Reply-To: <475960DF.4090208@linuxtechdaily.com>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACFF@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Rich Hughes

> This kit came with an awesome motherboard, 1 gig of ram, the

 You don't mention what kind of video processor it has - Intel? Nvidia? ATI?
Other? That can have *some* effect, depending on precisely what the user wants
to do.

> My question to the group is this: am I right that for everyday desktop
> usage that this is a great processor?

 That's plenty fast, so long as the user isn't running Vista. :->

 Pro or semi-pro video production or serious gaming needs more than that,
but general home-movie work and such would be fine. I get by with less CPU
than that, effectively. Those are the only things that really strain any CPU
made in the last five years.

 Well, except for HD video. That wants at least a 2+GHz processor, and ideally
a good video card with dedicated hardware, but with 3.4GHz it should play an
HD video even if it's only got Intel video.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                         (313) 227-2317

 "If decisive but massive killing actually stopped the other side,
      Israel would be as peaceful as Omaha by now." - elmegil
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From micorral at comcast.net  Fri Dec  7 10:25:30 2007
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 10:25:30 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Processors and Thugs
In-Reply-To: <4759630C.8060300@comcast.net>
References: <475960DF.4090208@linuxtechdaily.com>
	<4759630C.8060300@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712071013250.2585@banana.sluggo.net>

2007-12-07, Monsieur Garry Stahl a ecrit:
> I'm still cranking out on a 1.8 gig.

1.8GHz? Luxury! My main PC is still a 1.2GHz Athlon that I've had for
over 5 years. I keep trying to come up with reasons for why I should
upgrade this box that works fine and does everything I need it to do.
But I still can't really justify upgrading.

> Normal desktop work doesn't require huge amounts of horsepower.  It's
> nice to have and I don't know anyone that would turn it down.

And Linux requires even less horsepower, if you avoid GNOME and KDE.
My box running WindowMaker under Fedora 7 is snappier than more
powerful machines I've used that ran Windows. A 3.0+GHz P4 would
be more than good enough for any Linux desktop.

Michael


From danno at umich.edu  Fri Dec  7 11:23:02 2007
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 11:23:02 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Processors and Thugs
In-Reply-To: <475960DF.4090208@linuxtechdaily.com>
References: <475960DF.4090208@linuxtechdaily.com>
Message-ID: <20071207162300.GA55136@maniac.deathstar.org>

On Fri, Dec 07, 2007 at 10:03:59AM -0500, Rich Hughes wrote:
> My question to the group is this: am I right that for everyday desktop
> usage that this is a great processor? I'm looking at it related to an

It's a fine, reasonably fast CPU and plenty for any "everyday desktop
use" I can think of; it won't be super fast with video or photo
editing but it won't be bad, either (and memory is really the
constraint there).

It is quite power-hungry, even when idle; a similarly priced AMD
chip might be a better financial bet depending on expected usage
patterns (extra electricity and summer a/c costs).  

Your cheapo kit almost certainly includes a low-efficiency power
supply; consider recommending an upgrade for similar reasons.


The $200 wal-mart linux PC sounds awfully attractive too.  It isn't
nearly as full-featured as whatever you're reviewing, but it uses
a trivial amount of power and is apparently super-quiet.  I bet
your barebones sounds like a jet engine.

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From painbank at gmail.com  Fri Dec  7 12:30:57 2007
From: painbank at gmail.com (Rich Elswick)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 12:30:57 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] AntiSpam Tools
In-Reply-To: <47585834.1010509@hotpop.com>
References: <20071206132413.E740A14143@impelind.com>
	<47585834.1010509@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <cafacd830712070930x3fc3e492u99aa74e1c90c490a@mail.gmail.com>

politics is economics errr economics is politics... oh hell, just ask Oprah.
:)

On Dec 6, 2007 3:14 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis3 at hotpop.com> wrote:

> Robert Adkins wrote:
> >> I like the Russian spam solution.
> >
> > Snip
> >
> >> The Russian solution:  All of this nasty spam stopped one day
> >> within hours after someone dumped his corpse in an alley.
> >>
> >
> >       I read about this case. It wasn't exactly altruism that won the
> day.
> >
> >       The death has been linked to Russian organized crime. It appears
> > that regardless of what you do, if you actually ignore those "Pay us
> > protection, or else" statements from Russian Organized Crime, they will
> > quite brutally, physically beat you to death.
>
> But of course, if you don't deal with shady people,
> and work only with legitimate businesses (such as
> the other Russian-language spam I described), then
> you really don't have to worry about dealing with
> organized criminals or protection money, do you.
>
> By the way, the "Russian Mafia" is mostly a figment
> of the western journalists' imagination.  When you
> have a population which for decades was taught that
> anyone who makes a profit is a criminal, then any
> successful businessman is reflexively branded as
> mafia by most Russians who were born before 1970
> or so.  Most organized crime in Russia is political,
> not economic.
>
> While there are some shake-down operations, and
> apparently some kidnapping of women who are sold
> into enslavement as prostitutes, the overwhelming
> majority of this activity is centered in Ukraine,
> not Russia.
>
> In Russia, the closest equivalent is large bribes
> for government officials.  However, this is not
> as bad nor corrupt as it sounds to most Americans --
> typically (and historically for centuries), Russian
> bureaucrats were very poorly paid -- their government
> salaries were meager (if they were even paid at all
> by the Czar's government), as they were EXPECTED to
> live primarily from bribes.
>
>
> What I find very interesting, is that, in three
> visits to Russia, people who I have heard called
> "mafia" were actually going out of their way to
> aid and protect tourists.
>
>
>
> >
> >       Nobody, not even a spam king deserves that.
> >
>
> Really?
>
> The productivity losses that all of us incur for THEIR
> benefit is nothing short of slavery.  I can think of
> nothing more fitting than death for those who enslave
> others.
>
> >       -Rob
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>



-- 
Rich Elswick
http://www.moyaentertainment.com

<a
href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/scacast"><img src="
http://feeds.feedburner.com/scacast.gif" style="border:0" alt="The Pain Bank
- SCA and WMA"/></a>


From mdlug3 at arb.net  Fri Dec  7 12:31:28 2007
From: mdlug3 at arb.net (Dave Arbogast)
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 12:31:28 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] AntiSpam Tools
In-Reply-To: <47585834.1010509@hotpop.com>
References: <20071206132413.E740A14143@impelind.com>
	<47585834.1010509@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <47598370.2040005@arb.net>



Aaron Kulkis wrote:

>
>While there are some shake-down operations, and
>apparently some kidnapping of women who are sold
>into enslavement as prostitutes, the overwhelming
>majority of this activity is centered in Ukraine,
>not Russia.
>  
>
Why do you think this ? Have you ever been to the Ukraine ? I hold a 
muli-entry Ukrainian VISA as my wife was born there under "Soviet 
Times". It is true they have about the worst birth rate imbalance in the 
world with about 54% girls, it is nearly hopeless for a woman over 25 
there who is not married as the men who survived the Soviet / Ukrainian 
military are either married or not interested in women. So, yes many of 
them are eager to get out of the Ukraine and often they are tricked into 
such, But the most expensive city in the world is Moscow. The populous 
of Moscow did not all get an income boost to match this new distinction, 
so Russian women are often very eager to come to the west too. Look on 
the mail order bride sites for eastern Europe and you'll see more 
Russians than Ukrainians.

-dave


From driveray at ameritech.net  Fri Dec  7 12:38:00 2007
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 12:38:00 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Processors and Thugs
In-Reply-To: <20071207162300.GA55136@maniac.deathstar.org>
References: <475960DF.4090208@linuxtechdaily.com>
	<20071207162300.GA55136@maniac.deathstar.org>
Message-ID: <475984F8.2070409@ameritech.net>

Dan Pritts wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 07, 2007 at 10:03:59AM -0500, Rich Hughes wrote:
>> My question to the group is this: am I right that for everyday desktop
>> usage that this is a great processor? I'm looking at it related to an
> 
> It's a fine, reasonably fast CPU and plenty for any "everyday desktop
> use" I can think of; it won't be super fast with video or photo
> editing but it won't be bad, either (and memory is really the
> constraint there).
> 
> It is quite power-hungry, even when idle;

This is my main criticism of the P4 line (inc. Pentium-D), with emphasis
on the fact the power hungry= HOT and inefficient.

Referencing and comparing these:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_4>
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_D>
with these:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_M>
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core>
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core_2>

tells a lot, including why the P-4 line is slated to be phased out.

>> am I right that for everyday desktop usage that this is a
>> great processor?

But still, the case, power supply, mobo, CPU, 1GB RAM, kb, mouse, CDRom
and floppy for $189? Hell yes that's a good deal! And no doubt adequate
for most uses. But I would spring for a better power supply before any
other upgrades.

> Your cheapo kit almost certainly includes a low-efficiency power
> supply; consider recommending an upgrade for similar reasons.

Before the cheap PS damages the rest of the system. (It happens, a lot.)

> danno

Raymond McLaughlin



From rkannan at peoplepc.com  Fri Dec  7 13:21:49 2007
From: rkannan at peoplepc.com (R. Kannan)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 13:21:49 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: [mdlug] Processors and Thugs
Message-ID: <19297711.1197051710399.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

>From: "Ingles, Raymond" <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com>
>Sent: Dec 7, 2007 10:16 AM
>To: admin at linuxtechdaily.com, MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>Subject: Re: [mdlug] Processors and Thugs
>
>
[deleted post..]

> "If decisive but massive killing actually stopped the other side,
>      Israel would be as peaceful as Omaha by now." - elmegil

Interesting quote coming at the heel of the recent mall shootings at Omaha.

________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com


From tesral at comcast.net  Fri Dec  7 13:26:46 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 13:26:46 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Processors and Thugs
In-Reply-To: <19297711.1197051710399.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <19297711.1197051710399.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <47599066.2050202@comcast.net>

R. Kannan wrote:
> Interesting quote coming at the heel of the recent mall shootings at Omaha.
>   

A bit heavy on the Irony

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Fri Dec  7 15:20:42 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 15:20:42 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: C64 anniversary
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712071220t50209d88k660bab42e72c75bd@mail.gmail.com>

Thought some of you old geezers would be interested.  I don't have
much experience with C64 because I followed the Atari and Apple II
paths in my early years.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/ptech/12/07/c64/index.html

There is a Unix-like OS for the C64:
http://lng.sourceforge.net

I wonder if Vista will run on it.  How many floppies that would take?


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Fri Dec  7 15:57:10 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 15:57:10 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: C64 anniversary
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90712071220t50209d88k660bab42e72c75bd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBAD05@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Jeff Hanson

> Thought some of you old geezers would be interested.  I don't have
> much experience with C64 because I followed the Atari and Apple II
> paths in my early years.
> http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/ptech/12/07/c64/index.html


 TI99/4A here. Nice machine in some ways, but... quirky.

> I wonder if Vista will run on it.  How many floppies that would take?

 Well, you wouldn't want to run Home Premium or anything like that. For
just "Vista Home Basic", it wants a "20GB hard drive with at least 15GB
of available space". Let's be generous and assume it only uses 15GB.

 Now, the most common C64 floppies could hold ~170KB of data per side.
So, let's see:

 15GB / 170KB = 92,521.4 floppy sides. So, round up and divide by two
for double-sided floppies, and you've got 46,261 floppies. Now, the data
rate for a 1541 floppy drive, with accelerator software and/or hardware,
could approach 4KB/sec. So, each floppy could be loaded in no less than
42.5 seconds. Assume some overhead, add 5 seconds to pop out the floppy
and either flip it over or exchange it, and you've got around a minute
per floppy. So, it could boot up in a mere 771 hours, or 32 days.

 But, of course, it doesn't *really* use all 15GB. Assuming you just
want it to boot, Vista Home Basic claims it'll run in 512MB of RAM.
Of course, my machine was swapping with a full 1GB, but let's assume
that's the minimum. 512MB/170KB results in a mere 1,543 floppies
(with one empty side), and it would load in just 25 hours.

 Now, making a C64 with that much RAM is left as an exercise for the
completely insane reader.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                                 (313) 227-2317

 "[L]ook at how they describe their customers. For the content industries,
  they're 'consumers'. By contrast, the information technology companies
  talk about 'users'. If you see people as consumers, you control access
  to what you offer... but if you see people as users, you want to give
     them more features and power at cheaper prices." - Mike Godwin
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Fri Dec  7 17:25:17 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 17:25:17 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: C64 anniversary
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBAD05@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <b02c40e90712071220t50209d88k660bab42e72c75bd@mail.gmail.com>
	<41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBAD05@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712071425l72fcb957r9dab2b990d7bf2aa@mail.gmail.com>

On Dec 7, 2007 3:57 PM, Ingles, Raymond <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:
>  Now, making a C64 with that much RAM is left as an exercise for the
> completely insane reader.

I'm not going to bother looking because I'm sure someone with too much
time on their hands has done it somewhere.


From driveray at ameritech.net  Fri Dec  7 17:54:09 2007
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 17:54:09 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: C64 anniversary
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBAD05@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBAD05@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <4759CF11.4050609@ameritech.net>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>> From: Jeff Hanson
> 
>> Thought some of you old geezers would be interested.  I don't have
>> much experience with C64 because I followed the Atari and Apple II
>> paths in my early years.
>> http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/ptech/12/07/c64/index.html
> 
> 
>  TI99/4A here. Nice machine in some ways, but... quirky.
> 
>> I wonder if Vista will run on it.  How many floppies that would take?
> 
>  Well, you wouldn't want to run Home Premium or anything like that. For
> just "Vista Home Basic", it wants a "20GB hard drive with at least 15GB
> of available space". Let's be generous and assume it only uses 15GB.
> 
>  Now, the most common C64 floppies could hold ~170KB of data per side.
> So, let's see:

Thanks for doing the math Ray! My self, I just thought that if they
wanted to add a new circle to hell, for instance for spammers and
phishers, ...


From tesral at comcast.net  Fri Dec  7 23:14:43 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 23:14:43 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: C64 anniversary
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBAD05@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBAD05@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <475A1A33.6070508@comcast.net>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>  Now, making a C64 with that much RAM is left as an exercise for the
> completely insane reader.
>
>   

I know a guy that had nine meg of ram in one.  When you consider the
memory overhead of the average C-64 program that IS insane.  Oh and a 1
gig SCSI drive.


-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From tesral at comcast.net  Fri Dec  7 23:16:10 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 23:16:10 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: C64 anniversary
In-Reply-To: <4759CF11.4050609@ameritech.net>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBAD05@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<4759CF11.4050609@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <475A1A8A.8080100@comcast.net>

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
>
> Thanks for doing the math Ray! My self, I just thought that if they
> wanted to add a new circle to hell, for instance for spammers and
> phishers, ...
>   
We make them load it on a VIC-20, with tapes.


-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From micorral at comcast.net  Sat Dec  8 10:48:50 2007
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 10:48:50 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] OT: CompUSA, R.I.P.
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712081047110.3972@banana.sluggo.net>

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/12/08/BU3ETQI3S.DTL

I'll be looking forward to the close-out sale coming soon.

Michael


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sat Dec  8 12:44:43 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 12:44:43 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: CompUSA, R.I.P.
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712081047110.3972@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712081047110.3972@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712080944r6aa29064x2ba8c855df6ea874@mail.gmail.com>

On Dec 8, 2007 10:48 AM, Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net> wrote:
> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/12/08/BU3ETQI3S.DTL
>
> I'll be looking forward to the close-out sale coming soon.

The only Michigan store is in Lansing.  In Ohio there are stores in
Cincinnati, Fairlawn, and Dayton.


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Sat Dec  8 14:33:42 2007
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 14:33:42 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: CompUSA, R.I.P.
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712081047110.3972@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712081047110.3972@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <1197142422.3751.5.camel@plumber.site>


On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 10:48 -0500, Michael Corral wrote:
> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/12/08/BU3ETQI3S.DTL
> 
> I'll be looking forward to the close-out sale coming soon.
> 

	I; for one; will not be there. I tried to buy a laptop from them over
the period of a week or so. Every time it went on sale it magically went
out of stock. When it came back into stock it magically went off sale
price. It teed me off so bad I emailed them a copy of the receipt from
the store I did finally buy it from. That and sales/tech people that
just didn't give a rip and it showed. Some things actually come around
to those that deserve them!

Best Regards,
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From tesral at comcast.net  Sat Dec  8 20:10:39 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 20:10:39 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: CompUSA, R.I.P.
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90712080944r6aa29064x2ba8c855df6ea874@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712081047110.3972@banana.sluggo.net>
	<b02c40e90712080944r6aa29064x2ba8c855df6ea874@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <475B408F.7040003@comcast.net>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> The only Michigan store is in Lansing.  In Ohio there are stores in
> Cincinnati, Fairlawn, and Dayton.
>   

When the one in Dearborn closed their closeout prices were still not as
good as Microcenter everyday.

They shall not be missed.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From mdlug3 at arb.net  Sat Dec  8 23:58:38 2007
From: mdlug3 at arb.net (Dave Arbogast)
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 23:58:38 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: CompUSA, R.I.P.
In-Reply-To: <475B408F.7040003@comcast.net>
References: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712081047110.3972@banana.sluggo.net>	<b02c40e90712080944r6aa29064x2ba8c855df6ea874@mail.gmail.com>
	<475B408F.7040003@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <475B75FE.2020504@arb.net>



Garry Stahl wrote:

>Jeff Hanson wrote:
>  
>
>>The only Michigan store is in Lansing.  In Ohio there are stores in
>>Cincinnati, Fairlawn, and Dayton.
>>  
>>    
>>
>
>When the one in Dearborn closed their closeout prices were still not as
>good as Microcenter everyday.
>
>They shall not be missed.
>
>  
>
I also found this to be true... It reminds me of the churn in the 
building supply market - Each new company did better than the sole 
competitor before it -  HQ / Builders Square / Home Depot / Lowes ?  
When CompUSA started, there was to local Microcenter.... who will come 
along after CompUSA is gone to compete with Microcenter ?

-dave


From micorral at comcast.net  Sun Dec  9 00:34:41 2007
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 00:34:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] OT: CompUSA, R.I.P.
In-Reply-To: <475B75FE.2020504@arb.net>
References: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712081047110.3972@banana.sluggo.net>
	<b02c40e90712080944r6aa29064x2ba8c855df6ea874@mail.gmail.com>
	<475B408F.7040003@comcast.net> <475B75FE.2020504@arb.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712090018220.6467@banana.sluggo.net>

2007-12-08, Monsieur Dave Arbogast a ecrit:
> Garry Stahl wrote:
>> When the one in Dearborn closed their closeout prices were still not as
>> good as Microcenter everyday.
> I also found this to be true... It reminds me of the churn in the

It varies, in my experience. I got a pretty good deal on my Radeon 9250
($25 brand new in the box) when the store on Telegraph north of Square
Lake Rd closed. Microcenter still sells those for more than that.

> building supply market - Each new company did better than the sole
> competitor before it -  HQ / Builders Square / Home Depot / Lowes ?
> When CompUSA started, there was to local Microcenter.... who will come
> along after CompUSA is gone to compete with Microcenter ?

It'd be nice to see Fry's come here. They're the big electronics store
out west, and the ones I've seen (in CA and OR) have a bigger selection
of computer stuff for cheaper than Microcenter. The one outside Chicago
is the closest one to here that I'm aware of.

Michael


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Fri Dec  7 10:22:50 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 10:22:50 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Processors and Thugs
In-Reply-To: <475960DF.4090208@linuxtechdaily.com>
References: <475960DF.4090208@linuxtechdaily.com>
Message-ID: <4759654A.9070402@hotpop.com>

Rich Hughes wrote:
> Hey everyone,
> 
> I don't know that this is appropriate for the list or not, it should be
> okay but just let me know if it isn't. I can take it.
> 
> I'm reviewing a barebones kit for my site. The processor is a Pentium 4
> 3.4GHz. I'm writing the review from the perspective that one benefit to
> using linux is you can use older, thus cheaper, technology and have it
> fly. This kit came with an awesome motherboard, 1 gig of ram, the
> processor that I mentioned, case + 300W power supply (low, but has been
> solid), wireless mouse and kb, cd rom and floppy for $189. I feel that
> this is a powerhouse machine. To get it up and running, I installed
> opensuse 10.3, and everything flies on it. With ram so cheap I can
> easily dump more in and this thing will move even faster.
> 

Sounds like a very capable machine.

> My question to the group is this: am I right that for everyday desktop
> usage that this is a great processor? I'm looking at it related to an
> earlier thread here. Sure, dual and quad core are great, but if you want
> a great system at a low price then this is the way to go. Us linux users
> are a tough bunch, though, and I don't want to post this review and have
> some smart thugs beat me up and getting all "LOL P4". Is there that much
> of a disadvantage using a P4 as oppossed to later dual and quad cores
> when looking at what typical users do (surf the web, burn movies, etc...) ?
> 


Single core verses quad core isn't much of an issue for
desktop machines.

Due to memory contention issues, compared to a quad-core computer
running at N GHz will perform slower than a single-core computer
running at 4*N GHz.

The ideal supercomputer is a single-core machine which runs
at infinite speed with memory that's fast enough to keep up.


To tell you the truth, when I build a new machine (or
upgrade one), my typical purchasing strategy is to buy
a CPU that's in the mid-range to slowest currently
available, and put the money I saved (compared to a
high end CPUs) into memory.  [10 years ago, I would have
said, improved graphics card with lots of memory, but now
even low-end graphics cards are more than adequate for
even the largest displays (in terms of number of pixels)]


> Sorry for the novel. That is why I don't post much here. I'm long winded.
> 

No problem.  Feel free to post whenever you want.
It keeps the boredom-monster away.

> Thanks,
> Rich H




From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Fri Dec  7 11:00:08 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 11:00:08 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Processors and Thugs
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712071013250.2585@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <475960DF.4090208@linuxtechdaily.com>	<4759630C.8060300@comcast.net>
	<alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712071013250.2585@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <47596E08.6050504@hotpop.com>

Michael Corral wrote:
> 2007-12-07, Monsieur Garry Stahl a ecrit:
>> I'm still cranking out on a 1.8 gig.
> 
> 1.8GHz? Luxury! My main PC is still a 1.2GHz Athlon that I've had for
> over 5 years. I keep trying to come up with reasons for why I should
> upgrade this box that works fine and does everything I need it to do.
> But I still can't really justify upgrading.
> 
>> Normal desktop work doesn't require huge amounts of horsepower.  It's
>> nice to have and I don't know anyone that would turn it down.
> 
> And Linux requires even less horsepower, if you avoid GNOME and KDE.
> My box running WindowMaker under Fedora 7 is snappier than more
> powerful machines I've used that ran Windows. A 3.0+GHz P4 would
> be more than good enough for any Linux desktop.

even on a 500 MHz processor, KDE performs well.
Login is a bit slow, but once it's loaded into memory,
it's OK.




From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Sun Dec  9 03:12:17 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 03:12:17 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] AntiSpam Tools
In-Reply-To: <47598370.2040005@arb.net>
References: <20071206132413.E740A14143@impelind.com>	<47585834.1010509@hotpop.com>
	<47598370.2040005@arb.net>
Message-ID: <475BA361.80701@hotpop.com>

Dave Arbogast wrote:
> 
> Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> 
>> While there are some shake-down operations, and
>> apparently some kidnapping of women who are sold
>> into enslavement as prostitutes, the overwhelming
>> majority of this activity is centered in Ukraine,
>> not Russia.
>>  
>>
> Why do you think this ? Have you ever been to the Ukraine ? I hold a 
> muli-entry Ukrainian VISA as my wife was born there under "Soviet 
> Times". It is true they have about the worst birth rate imbalance in the 
> world with about 54% girls, it is nearly hopeless for a woman over 25 
> there who is not married as the men who survived the Soviet / Ukrainian 
> military are either married or not interested in women. So, yes many of 
> them are eager to get out of the Ukraine and often they are tricked into 
> such, But the most expensive city in the world is Moscow. The populous 
> of Moscow did not all get an income boost to match this new distinction, 
> so Russian women are often very eager to come to the west too. Look on 
> the mail order bride sites for eastern Europe and you'll see more 
> Russians than Ukrainians.


Russia has a larger population, and it seems that
the Russian men aren't doing as well economically
as the Ukrainian men (despite a larger impact from
a true mafia-like organization)




From peter at petertheplumber.net  Sun Dec  9 09:45:55 2007
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 09:45:55 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: CompUSA, R.I.P.
In-Reply-To: <475B75FE.2020504@arb.net>
References: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712081047110.3972@banana.sluggo.net>
	<b02c40e90712080944r6aa29064x2ba8c855df6ea874@mail.gmail.com>
	<475B408F.7040003@comcast.net>  <475B75FE.2020504@arb.net>
Message-ID: <1197211555.3751.16.camel@plumber.site>


On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 23:58 -0500, Dave Arbogast wrote:
> 
> Garry Stahl wrote:
> 
> >Jeff Hanson wrote:
<snip>
> >
> I also found this to be true... It reminds me of the churn in the 
> building supply market - Each new company did better than the sole 
> competitor before it -  HQ / Builders Square / Home Depot / Lowes ?  
> When CompUSA started, there was to local Microcenter.... who will come 
> along after CompUSA is gone to compete with Microcenter ?

	I should also point out the tremendous slide in the quality of the
materials available at the stores in your example as well as a
(corresponding) slide in the availability of qualified help.

Best Regards,
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From relson at osagesoftware.com  Sun Dec  9 10:15:40 2007
From: relson at osagesoftware.com (David Relson)
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 10:15:40 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: CompUSA, R.I.P.
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712090018220.6467@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712081047110.3972@banana.sluggo.net>
	<b02c40e90712080944r6aa29064x2ba8c855df6ea874@mail.gmail.com>
	<475B408F.7040003@comcast.net> <475B75FE.2020504@arb.net>
	<alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712090018220.6467@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <20071209101540.79614b33@osage.osagesoftware.com>

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007 00:34:41 -0500 (EST)
Michael Corral wrote:

...[snip]...

> It'd be nice to see Fry's come here. They're the big electronics store
> out west, and the ones I've seen (in CA and OR) have a bigger
> selection of computer stuff for cheaper than Microcenter. The one
> outside Chicago is the closest one to here that I'm aware of.
> 
> Michael

There's one on I-69 north of Indianapolis.  I've passed it several
times on work related trips but have never had time to stop in.

Checking via maps.google.com, the Chicago Fry's is in Downer's Grove, IL
which is 253 miles (4 hr 12 min) away.  The Indianapolis Fry's is in
Fishers, IN which is 255 miles (3 hr 50 min) away.

Cheers,

David


From jmtaylor90 at gmail.com  Sun Dec  9 11:08:28 2007
From: jmtaylor90 at gmail.com (Jason)
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 11:08:28 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] NSA Security Guides
Message-ID: <1197216508.3298.1.camel@bruiser.localdomain>

The NSA has published some best practice type guides for securing
various OS's and hardware. Interesting stuff.

http://www.nsa.gov/snac/index.cfm?MenuID=scg10.3.1

-Jason
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From tesral at comcast.net  Sun Dec  9 14:28:07 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 14:28:07 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Processors and Thugs
In-Reply-To: <47596E08.6050504@hotpop.com>
References: <475960DF.4090208@linuxtechdaily.com>	<4759630C.8060300@comcast.net>	<alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712071013250.2585@banana.sluggo.net>
	<47596E08.6050504@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <475C41C7.2030906@comcast.net>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>> 1.8GHz? Luxury! My main PC is still a 1.2GHz Athlon that I've had for
>> over 5 years. I keep trying to come up with reasons for why I should
>> upgrade this box that works fine and does everything I need it to do.
>> But I still can't really justify upgrading.
>>     

I have a simple rule.  I keep a computer until it no longer does what I
need to do.  The old Gateway will be with me for a while unless the
motherboard gives it up.


> even on a 500 MHz processor, KDE performs well.
> Login is a bit slow, but once it's loaded into memory,
> it's OK.
>   

If you have the memory.  At 320 meg my 500Mhz Thinkpad is almost painful
to run using KDE on Suse 9.2.  (I tried 10.0, the machine didn't like
it.)  I really want a new one.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From jbroughton at twmi.rr.com  Sun Dec  9 18:47:09 2007
From: jbroughton at twmi.rr.com (Jim)
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 18:47:09 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] AntiSpam Tools
In-Reply-To: <001e01c837b1$c3001240$6401a8c0@AMD2000>
References: <001e01c837b1$c3001240$6401a8c0@AMD2000>
Message-ID: <475C7E7D.1050008@twmi.rr.com>

Michael ORourke wrote:
> Sorry... I know this discussion came up yet again recently.  What are the 
> latest anti-spam tools people are successfully running on their own mail 
> domains?
>
> -Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>   
 I run a qmail box for 2 domains and the best anti spam solution I have 
used so far
is 1. Firewall rules to block countries with heavy spam output.  2. 
spamdyke. a real time blacklist
spam blocker. Then I have clients use thunderbird with anti-spam 
capabilities turned on.
Since the company I work for does not have any overseas business 
dealings firewalling a
countries ip blocks is a very easy solution.




From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Mon Dec 10 00:59:34 2007
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 00:59:34 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: CompUSA, R.I.P.
In-Reply-To: <20071209101540.79614b33@osage.osagesoftware.com>
References: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712081047110.3972@banana.sluggo.net>
	<b02c40e90712080944r6aa29064x2ba8c855df6ea874@mail.gmail.com>
	<475B408F.7040003@comcast.net> <475B75FE.2020504@arb.net>
	<alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712090018220.6467@banana.sluggo.net>
	<20071209101540.79614b33@osage.osagesoftware.com>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380712092159v656924cdt2613d78fa95f196c@mail.gmail.com>

David Relson wrote:
> Michael Corral wrote:
> ...[snip]...
>> It'd be nice to see Fry's come here. They're the big electronics store
>> out west, and the ones I've seen (in CA and OR) have a bigger
>> selection of computer stuff for cheaper than Microcenter. The one
>> outside Chicago is the closest one to here that I'm aware of.

> There's one on I-69 north of Indianapolis.  I've passed it several
> times on work related trips but have never had time to stop in.

> Checking via maps.google.com, the Chicago Fry's is in Downer's Grove, IL
> which is 253 miles (4 hr 12 min) away.  The Indianapolis Fry's is in
> Fishers, IN which is 255 miles (3 hr 50 min) away.

I, for one will not miss CompUSA much -- I worked there for a time,
mostly running the Returns counter one Christmas, and back-stabbing
and scapegoating were rampant -- not a pleasant place to work.

I have been to the Fry's in Downer's Grove a number of times -- my
wife's relatives live in nearby Aurora -- and, while not perfect, it
DOES have stuff that's nearly impossible to find locally, both
computer hardware and electronic components.

There used to be a LOT of electronics distributors in this area, but
not any more, "Popular Electronics" magazine is gone... as a long-time
electronic technician, it seems kinda sad.  Where WILL the next
generation of electronic experimenters come from?

~~ Mikey


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Dec 10 01:28:51 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 01:28:51 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: CompUSA, R.I.P.
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380712092159v656924cdt2613d78fa95f196c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712081047110.3972@banana.sluggo.net>
	<b02c40e90712080944r6aa29064x2ba8c855df6ea874@mail.gmail.com>
	<475B408F.7040003@comcast.net> <475B75FE.2020504@arb.net>
	<alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712090018220.6467@banana.sluggo.net>
	<20071209101540.79614b33@osage.osagesoftware.com>
	<b67fb0380712092159v656924cdt2613d78fa95f196c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712092228g2ba73450ob9994dff73a8cfe@mail.gmail.com>

On Dec 10, 2007 12:59 AM, Michael Rudas <audiotech50 at gmail.com> wrote:
> There used to be a LOT of electronics distributors in this area, but
> not any more, "Popular Electronics" magazine is gone... as a long-time
> electronic technician, it seems kinda sad.  Where WILL the next
> generation of electronic experimenters come from?

That's an ongoing issue with electronics in general.  It's because of
the declining cost of consumer electronics and increasing integration.
 In the tube days the components were big and clunky and easy to
handle.  Consumer devices were expensive and kit building was
economical and fun.  Now it's 0.5mm pitch MSOPs, QFNs, and BGAs and
it's cheaper to throw consumer electronics out than to clean them, let
alone fix them.  Heathkits are gone, the Active Electronics store in
Redford closed, and Radio Shack is a shadow of it's former self.  Kids
are too distracted by game consoles to even bother learning how to
build a PC, and forget about component-level construction.  Many EEs
today have rather limited design skills and usually rely on copying
examples out of application notes to design systems.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Dec 10 01:51:35 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 01:51:35 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Need advice on network authentication design
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712092251k1e031266m882d477737477d33@mail.gmail.com>

Up till now my network has been peer-peer with separate user accounts
since I didn't have a server.  I'm now setting up a server and need a
directory service and authentication mechanism.  LDAP seems to be the
typical solution but I'm having trouble figuring out what to do with
transient client systems like my laptop which can be used offline for
up to a two week duration.  So far I've found two options - caching
credentials for a ridiculous length of time
(http://www.flyn.org/laptopldap/laptopldap.html) or setting up a slave
LDAP server on the laptop (and other transient systems) using slurpd
or syncrepl.  Caching seems ugly to me but I can see that having a
bunch of slaves could be problematic also.  Anyone have experience
with these issues?


From jcbender at bendorius.com  Mon Dec 10 09:03:37 2007
From: jcbender at bendorius.com (Joseph C. Bender)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 09:03:37 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Need advice on network authentication design
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90712092251k1e031266m882d477737477d33@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e90712092251k1e031266m882d477737477d33@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <475D4739.7080103@bendorius.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> Up till now my network has been peer-peer with separate user accounts
> since I didn't have a server.  I'm now setting up a server and need a
> directory service and authentication mechanism.  LDAP seems to be the
> typical solution but I'm having trouble figuring out what to do with
> transient client systems like my laptop which can be used offline for
> up to a two week duration.  So far I've found two options - caching
> credentials for a ridiculous length of time
> (http://www.flyn.org/laptopldap/laptopldap.html) or setting up a slave
> LDAP server on the laptop (and other transient systems) using slurpd
> or syncrepl.  Caching seems ugly to me but I can see that having a
> bunch of slaves could be problematic also.  Anyone have experience
> with these issues?
> 
	Yes.

	And if you can get away with it, don't.  There's not really a reason to 
have that.  Notebooks are always an edge case because they're so darned 
portable.  If you can make sure to do matching UID/GIDs for the laptop 
users/groups compared to the rest of your directory structure, it'll go 
a long way.  This also gives you a backup plan for when (not if, but 
when, it'll happen) the directory services on the server breaks and you 
can't easily log into a local workstation.

	If you have to have it in that authentication domain, caching 
credentials (with a means of refreshing those creds remotely, via VPN or 
some such is somthing to also consider if you're away from the network 
for longer than the cache time) is probably the way to go, however.


	Though, because I'm curious, why do you need a directory service?




-- 
Joseph Bender
Bendorius Consulting
P: 248-434-5580
F: 248-434-5581
jcbender at bendorius com


From radkins at impelind.com  Mon Dec 10 09:38:16 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 09:38:16 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Need advice on network authentication design
In-Reply-To: <475D4739.7080103@bendorius.com>
Message-ID: <20071210144535.05F4E14140@impelind.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Joseph C. Bender
> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 9:04 AM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Need advice on network authentication design
> 
> Jeff Hanson wrote:
> > Up till now my network has been peer-peer with separate 
> user accounts 
> > since I didn't have a server.  I'm now setting up a server 
> and need a 
> > directory service and authentication mechanism.  LDAP seems 
> to be the 
> > typical solution but I'm having trouble figuring out what 
> to do with 
> > transient client systems like my laptop which can be used 
> offline for 
> > up to a two week duration.  So far I've found two options - caching 
> > credentials for a ridiculous length of time
> > (http://www.flyn.org/laptopldap/laptopldap.html) or setting 
> up a slave 
> > LDAP server on the laptop (and other transient systems) 
> using slurpd 
> > or syncrepl.  Caching seems ugly to me but I can see that having a 
> > bunch of slaves could be problematic also.  Anyone have experience 
> > with these issues?
> > 
> 	Yes.
> 
> 	And if you can get away with it, don't.  There's not 
> really a reason to have that.  Notebooks are always an edge 
> case because they're so darned portable.  If you can make 
> sure to do matching UID/GIDs for the laptop users/groups 
> compared to the rest of your directory structure, it'll go a 
> long way.  This also gives you a backup plan for when (not 
> if, but when, it'll happen) the directory services on the 
> server breaks and you can't easily log into a local workstation.
> 
> 	If you have to have it in that authentication domain, 
> caching credentials (with a means of refreshing those creds 
> remotely, via VPN or some such is somthing to also consider 
> if you're away from the network for longer than the cache 
> time) is probably the way to go, however.
> 
> 
> 	Though, because I'm curious, why do you need a 
> directory service?
> 
> 

	I agree with Joseph's question.

	It sounds like you are going to have one server on your network.

	I am assuming that you are connecting Windows workstations to the
network? (Hopefully Windows XP Pro which can performain Domain Authenticated
logins.)

	If that's the case, you can use SAMBA setup as a Windows Primary
Domain Controller. If you need to, you could use NIS for synching multiple
servers up in your office.

	-ROb



From carew at pobox.com  Mon Dec 10 11:45:42 2007
From: carew at pobox.com (Evan Carew)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 11:45:42 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] NSA Security Guides
In-Reply-To: <1197216508.3298.1.camel@bruiser.localdomain>
References: <1197216508.3298.1.camel@bruiser.localdomain>
Message-ID: <475D6D36.5040209@pobox.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Interesting that they didn't cover TPM configuration under RHEL with
Trousers. I guess that means that it isn't needed, and or it isn't
currently bing used for desktop missions yet in the services. As for
Microsoft's configuration, it all looks rational, right down to the
USB key idea... except for the admonition against turning off the bit
locker. Hmm... Looks like a prescription for how to crack into a
windows machine running TPM doesn't it?

Jason wrote:

> The NSA has published some best practice type guides for securing
> various OS's and hardware. Interesting stuff.
>
> http://www.nsa.gov/snac/index.cfm?MenuID=scg10.3.1
>
> -Jason
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> _______________________________________________ mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFHXW01pxCQXwV2bJARAqtDAJsHQ9wIK3mcIBXbv9x1jzMV1OGEggCfau+H
TXc24LJ0qugArP9HYKWn0Hw=
=FqtR
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From tmorris at ugs.com  Mon Dec 10 12:51:03 2007
From: tmorris at ugs.com (Morris, Tim)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 11:51:03 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] OT: CompUSA, R.I.P.
In-Reply-To: <1197211555.3751.16.camel@plumber.site>
References: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712081047110.3972@banana.sluggo.net><b02c40e90712080944r6aa29064x2ba8c855df6ea874@mail.gmail.com><475B408F.7040003@comcast.net>
	<475B75FE.2020504@arb.net> <1197211555.3751.16.camel@plumber.site>
Message-ID: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E20407D454@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>

Nobody beats newegg!

--  Tim Morris - UGS PLM Software

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Peter Bart
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 9:46 AM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] OT: CompUSA, R.I.P.


On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 23:58 -0500, Dave Arbogast wrote:
> 
> Garry Stahl wrote:
> 
> >Jeff Hanson wrote:
<snip>
> >
> I also found this to be true... It reminds me of the churn in the 
> building supply market - Each new company did better than the sole 
> competitor before it -  HQ / Builders Square / Home Depot / Lowes ?  
> When CompUSA started, there was to local Microcenter.... who will come

> along after CompUSA is gone to compete with Microcenter ?

	I should also point out the tremendous slide in the quality of
the
materials available at the stores in your example as well as a
(corresponding) slide in the availability of qualified help.

Best Regards,
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Dec 10 13:00:40 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 13:00:40 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: CompUSA, R.I.P.
In-Reply-To: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E20407D454@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
References: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712081047110.3972@banana.sluggo.net>
	<b02c40e90712080944r6aa29064x2ba8c855df6ea874@mail.gmail.com>
	<475B408F.7040003@comcast.net> <475B75FE.2020504@arb.net>
	<1197211555.3751.16.camel@plumber.site>
	<B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E20407D454@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712101000n528d3d35kb7de0a2bfb6d468d@mail.gmail.com>

On Dec 10, 2007 12:51 PM, Morris, Tim <tmorris at ugs.com> wrote:
> Nobody beats newegg!

Nobody beats PriceGrabber.com and Pricewatch.com.


From admin at linuxtechdaily.com  Mon Dec 10 13:36:12 2007
From: admin at linuxtechdaily.com (Rich Hughes)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 13:36:12 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Thanks and self-promotion
Message-ID: <475D871C.9070006@linuxtechdaily.com>

Hey guys,

Thanks for all of the input about the P4 barebones system. I give you
guys credit in the review. If anyone is interested, here is the link:

http://www.linuxtechdaily.com/2007/12/review-geekscom-pentium-4-34ghz-barebones-system/

it is quieter than i expected a P4 to be. I might buy one of these, the
price is right. I should mention I get no cut of the sales of this thing
or anything, so I'm not kissing ass to make four bucks. I feel kind of
defensive about that when I write a positive review.

Anyway, thanks again, I appreciate the reassurance. It was interesting
to read the responses.

Take care,
Rich H


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Mon Dec 10 14:59:22 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 14:59:22 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: CompUSA, R.I.P.
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380712092159v656924cdt2613d78fa95f196c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712081047110.3972@banana.sluggo.net>	<b02c40e90712080944r6aa29064x2ba8c855df6ea874@mail.gmail.com>	<475B408F.7040003@comcast.net>
	<475B75FE.2020504@arb.net>	<alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712090018220.6467@banana.sluggo.net>	<20071209101540.79614b33@osage.osagesoftware.com>
	<b67fb0380712092159v656924cdt2613d78fa95f196c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <475D9A9A.6080301@hotpop.com>

Michael Rudas wrote:
> David Relson wrote:
>> Michael Corral wrote:
>> ...[snip]...
>>> It'd be nice to see Fry's come here. They're the big electronics store
>>> out west, and the ones I've seen (in CA and OR) have a bigger
>>> selection of computer stuff for cheaper than Microcenter. The one
>>> outside Chicago is the closest one to here that I'm aware of.
> 
>> There's one on I-69 north of Indianapolis.  I've passed it several
>> times on work related trips but have never had time to stop in.
> 
>> Checking via maps.google.com, the Chicago Fry's is in Downer's Grove, IL
>> which is 253 miles (4 hr 12 min) away.  The Indianapolis Fry's is in
>> Fishers, IN which is 255 miles (3 hr 50 min) away.
> 
> I, for one will not miss CompUSA much -- I worked there for a time,
> mostly running the Returns counter one Christmas, and back-stabbing
> and scapegoating were rampant -- not a pleasant place to work.

That's usually a problem of the individual store management
rather than the chain as a whole.

> 
> I have been to the Fry's in Downer's Grove a number of times -- my
> wife's relatives live in nearby Aurora -- and, while not perfect, it
> DOES have stuff that's nearly impossible to find locally, both
> computer hardware and electronic components.
> 
> There used to be a LOT of electronics distributors in this area, but
> not any more, "Popular Electronics" magazine is gone... as a long-time
> electronic technician, it seems kinda sad.  Where WILL the next
> generation of electronic experimenters come from?
>

Taiwan





From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Mon Dec 10 15:07:24 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 15:07:24 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Need advice on network authentication design
In-Reply-To: <475D4739.7080103@bendorius.com>
References: <b02c40e90712092251k1e031266m882d477737477d33@mail.gmail.com>
	<475D4739.7080103@bendorius.com>
Message-ID: <475D9C7C.1010504@hotpop.com>

Joseph C. Bender wrote:
> Jeff Hanson wrote:
>> Up till now my network has been peer-peer with separate user accounts
>> since I didn't have a server.  I'm now setting up a server and need a
>> directory service and authentication mechanism.  LDAP seems to be the
>> typical solution but I'm having trouble figuring out what to do with
>> transient client systems like my laptop which can be used offline for
>> up to a two week duration.  So far I've found two options - caching
>> credentials for a ridiculous length of time
>> (http://www.flyn.org/laptopldap/laptopldap.html) or setting up a slave
>> LDAP server on the laptop (and other transient systems) using slurpd
>> or syncrepl.  Caching seems ugly to me but I can see that having a
>> bunch of slaves could be problematic also.  Anyone have experience
>> with these issues?
>>
> 	Yes.
> 
> 	And if you can get away with it, don't.  There's not really a reason to 
> have that.  Notebooks are always an edge case because they're so darned 
> portable.  If you can make sure to do matching UID/GIDs for the laptop 
> users/groups compared to the rest of your directory structure, it'll go 
> a long way.  This also gives you a backup plan for when (not if, but 
> when, it'll happen) the directory services on the server breaks and you 
> can't easily log into a local workstation.
> 
> 	If you have to have it in that authentication domain, caching 
> credentials (with a means of refreshing those creds remotely, via VPN or 
> some such is somthing to also consider if you're away from the network 
> for longer than the cache time) is probably the way to go, however.
> 
> 
> 	Though, because I'm curious, why do you need a directory service?

Probably because some clueless manager just heard the
term last week.




From mdlug3 at arb.net  Mon Dec 10 16:51:31 2007
From: mdlug3 at arb.net (Dave Arbogast)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 16:51:31 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Need advice on network authentication design
In-Reply-To: <475D9C7C.1010504@hotpop.com>
References: <b02c40e90712092251k1e031266m882d477737477d33@mail.gmail.com>	<475D4739.7080103@bendorius.com>
	<475D9C7C.1010504@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <475DB4E3.8010103@arb.net>



Aaron Kulkis wrote:

>Joseph C. Bender wrote:
>  
>
>>Jeff Hanson wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>Up till now my network has been peer-peer with separate user accounts
>>>since I didn't have a server.  I'm now setting up a server and need a
>>>directory service and authentication mechanism.  LDAP seems to be the
>>>typical solution but I'm having trouble figuring out what to do with
>>>transient client systems like my laptop which can be used offline for
>>>up to a two week duration.  So far I've found two options - caching
>>>credentials for a ridiculous length of time
>>>(http://www.flyn.org/laptopldap/laptopldap.html) or setting up a slave
>>>LDAP server on the laptop (and other transient systems) using slurpd
>>>or syncrepl.  Caching seems ugly to me but I can see that having a
>>>bunch of slaves could be problematic also.  Anyone have experience
>>>with these issues?
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>	Yes.
>>
>>	And if you can get away with it, don't.  There's not really a reason to 
>>have that.  Notebooks are always an edge case because they're so darned 
>>portable.  If you can make sure to do matching UID/GIDs for the laptop 
>>users/groups compared to the rest of your directory structure, it'll go 
>>a long way.  This also gives you a backup plan for when (not if, but 
>>when, it'll happen) the directory services on the server breaks and you 
>>can't easily log into a local workstation.
>>
>>	If you have to have it in that authentication domain, caching 
>>credentials (with a means of refreshing those creds remotely, via VPN or 
>>some such is somthing to also consider if you're away from the network 
>>for longer than the cache time) is probably the way to go, however.
>>
>>
>>	Though, because I'm curious, why do you need a directory service?
>>    
>>
>
>Probably because some clueless manager just heard the
>term last week.
>
>  
>
You got to love technology driven by what the boss read in a trade 
rag... especially when it is "security" related.. In this case, LDAP 
will reduce the security of the systems because the ID/passwords will be 
now be crossing the wire clear-text. Good thing the boss didn't read 
about LDAP/s as you'd have an extra step to setup and deal with.

Caching has been a standard feature in the M$ realm for a while...

-dave


From driveray at ameritech.net  Mon Dec 10 18:19:43 2007
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:19:43 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] [Announce] MUG meeting tomorrow - December 11, 2007
Message-ID: <475DC98F.2060008@ameritech.net>


MUG's Next Meeting is tomorrow Tuesday, December 11, 2007.
As usual it is one I'm looking forward to. - Duane :-)

Main Topic: OpenVPN
Speaker: Flavio daCosta

The man, the myth, the legend will fill us in on OpenVPN. OpenVPN is a
full-featured SSL VPN solution which can accommodate a wide range of
configurations, including remote access, site-to-site VPNs, WiFi
security, and enterprise-scale remote access solutions with load
balancing, failover, and fine-grained access-controls.

Additional Topic: LaTex
Jim McQuillan will tell us the what, whys, and wherefores about LaTex
and related tools.

If you have topics for future meetings you would like us to cover please
email the board, thanks.

Where:

The MUG meetings are held at:

Farmington Community Library - Main Branch
32737 W. 12 Mile Rd.
Farmington Hills, MI 48334-3302

Click here for a map of the area.

When:

the meetings are on the 2nd Tuesday of each month.
6:00pm 	Doors open, registration 	     O'Reilly
6:30pm 	Meeting starts, Mug business
6:45pm 	Main presentation
8:15pm 	2nd Presentation
8:45pm 	Meeting adjourns
9:00pm 	Dinner at a local establishment



_______________________________________________
Announce mailing list
Announce at www.mug.org
http://www.mug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/announce


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Mon Dec 10 16:42:51 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 16:42:51 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: Re: [opensuse] vmware and fake scsi drivers-final]
Message-ID: <475DB2DB.3040405@hotpop.com>



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [opensuse] vmware and fake scsi drivers-final
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 14:23:53 +0100
From: Catimimi <catimimi at libertysurf.fr>
To: opensuse <opensuse at opensuse.org>
References: <200712071308.30858.kanenas at hawaii.rr.com>

kanenas at hawaii.rr.com a ?crit :
> After trying a bunch of things on my problem of accessing a physical xp 
> installation from my vmware server inside my 10.3 install, the final 
> conclusion is that it can not be done. Suse 10.3 presents my hda1partition as 
> sda1 to vmware and thus to all the virtual machines i can set up thru vmware, 
> yet a dual boot configuration maintains the ide character of the hard drive. 
> Thus, when booting from a dual boot, the doze partition knows it is an ide, 
> when i try to access it thru vmware doze is being told it is a scsi!!!!! 
>   

I don't agree, if you connect this drive to a vmware IDE controller (as
I told you), windows
is told that it is an IDE partition.

Michel





From jcbender at bendorius.com  Mon Dec 10 21:42:26 2007
From: jcbender at bendorius.com (Joseph C. Bender)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 21:42:26 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Need advice on network authentication design
In-Reply-To: <475D9C7C.1010504@hotpop.com>
References: <b02c40e90712092251k1e031266m882d477737477d33@mail.gmail.com>	<475D4739.7080103@bendorius.com>
	<475D9C7C.1010504@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <475DF912.9060804@bendorius.com>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>
> Probably because some clueless manager just heard the
> term last week.
> 
	Gee, why don't we wait for him to answer that one?  Your conclusion 
jumping speaks volumes, but should be expected, I suppose.

	Funny how you automatically assume there's no legit reason for any such 
thing.

-- 
Joseph Bender
Bendorius Consulting
P: 248-434-5580
F: 248-434-5581
jcbender at bendorius com


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Dec 10 21:54:12 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 21:54:12 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Need advice on network authentication design
In-Reply-To: <475D4739.7080103@bendorius.com>
References: <b02c40e90712092251k1e031266m882d477737477d33@mail.gmail.com>
	<475D4739.7080103@bendorius.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712101854ld7d226cq5088118c377e9ee1@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry about the late reply, I had a hardware failure.  You can read
about it here:
http://jhansonxi.blogspot.com/2007/12/keyboard-led-flashing-panic.html

On Dec 10, 2007 9:03 AM, Joseph C. Bender <jcbender at bendorius.com> wrote:
> Though, because I'm curious, why do you need a directory service?

First, I want to learn how to do centralized authentication and user
account control properly on Linux.  I would like to get a feel for it
and what it's limitations are as compared to M$AD so I can plan
deployments in small businesses and multi-system home networks.
Second, I want to eliminate having to manually change passwords and
keep UIDs and GIDs in sync on different systems and be able to easily
administer it remotely.

My current network consists of six networks connected through IPCop
with the Extra Interfaces add-on
(http://www.ban-solms.de/t/IPCop-xtiface.html).  In IPCop colors they
are:

Red (WAN) - cable modem
Green (personal) - my primary LAN.  There is also a VPN connection
through to my pseudo-employer's network (which is secured by blind
faith in M$ technology and nothing else).
Orange (public server) - Not currently used but I have plans for a web
server and/or game server (UT2004, Tremulous, etc.)
Blue (public wifi) - currently has minimal bandwidth control but I
want to set up traffic shaping and a Radius server with "terms of use"
agreement, etc.  I also want to set up a VPN to green for my laptop
and for household user laptops to the gray2 household network.
Gray1 (isolated) - for working on any suspect system, i.e. anything
that's not mine and has a M$ OS.  Can be accessed from green but can't
connect out to anything.
Gray2 (household) - shared with the family whose house my office is
in.  Can be accessed from green but not the reverse.  Multiple systems
(Ubuntu, XP), Xbox, PlayStation, guest systems, etc.

Currently all systems are peer-peer with manually duplicated accounts.
 My primary desktop system is effectively the current server on green
with a second hard drive for manual backups.  It's running out of
space.  I've got two 400GB drives and another PC available and want to
set it up as a dedicated server with RAID, archival data storage, and
BackupPC for backing up user data on client systems.

Archival data consists of M$ updates, Linux ISOs, Ubuntu repo mirror,
and multimedia files.  It would be nice if the Ubuntu repo mirror and
ISOs were available to wifi users without having to set up a separate
server on Orange.  Internally, links to the archive will be mapped to
a subdirectory in the user's home directory.  Archival data is not
critical so it doesn't matter if the server is offline.

For the household network users I want to set up a separate archive
for them to share their more static data and use rsync to provide
basic roaming profiles by mirroring dynamic and desktop configuration
data for each user.  I've thought about just doing /home mapping and
storing everything on the server but they play a lot of Windows games
on Wine and it's just too much application data that can be easily
replaced.  Using rsync to back up their documents and game saves is
more complicated but a lot more efficient.  I would also like to use
single sign-on with both their XP and Linux systems.  Of course they
will probably lose control of their accounts because XP malware will
get their password but as long as the root Linux account is safe it
doesn't matter.  Another concern is that in a few months I may be
moving out and would like to be able to migrate household to it's own
server.

I want this setup to give me access to everything via the server
across the VPN.  This is what I can do now with my employer's network
and my workstation there via RDC and Windows "offline files" syncing
to their server.  On both my laptop and desktop systems I am running
XP and Win98SE in VMware but joining them to my domain is not
critical.  Just using network file sharing is adequate as most of my
CAD data is handled by Perforce (a cross-platform version control
system).  I would like to be able to access the network via VPN from
anywhere using my laptop but I am sometimes in remote areas on
vacation for two weeks at a time where there is no Internet connection
and I can't have the laptop locking me out.  Of course, future clients
may also encounter this problem and I want a solution instead of an
excuse.

After I get this mess working I'm going to play around with setting up
VPNs to some of my friends' and family's networks for file sharing and
ssh access for remote administration.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Dec 10 22:40:06 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 22:40:06 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Thanks and self-promotion
In-Reply-To: <475D871C.9070006@linuxtechdaily.com>
References: <475D871C.9070006@linuxtechdaily.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712101940s3d48d202nfa7f5a6f18be4b10@mail.gmail.com>

On Dec 10, 2007 1:36 PM, Rich Hughes <admin at linuxtechdaily.com> wrote:
> Hey guys,
>
> Thanks for all of the input about the P4 barebones system. I give you
> guys credit in the review. If anyone is interested, here is the link:
>
> http://www.linuxtechdaily.com/2007/12/review-geekscom-pentium-4-34ghz-barebones-system/

The only error I noticed in your review is the number of PCI/PCI-E
slots listed is vague.  According to Foxconn:

1 x PCI-E x16
3 x PCI-E x1
3 x PCI


From admin at linuxtechdaily.com  Mon Dec 10 23:34:05 2007
From: admin at linuxtechdaily.com (Rich Hughes)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 23:34:05 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Thanks and self-promotion
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90712101940s3d48d202nfa7f5a6f18be4b10@mail.gmail.com>
References: <475D871C.9070006@linuxtechdaily.com>
	<b02c40e90712101940s3d48d202nfa7f5a6f18be4b10@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <475E133D.1060703@linuxtechdaily.com>

Thanks Jeff,

Today was a hell day, and I had committed to getting the review posted.
Frankly, I was beat and rushed when I put it up, obviously didn't give
it the in depth proofreading I should have. I also said "3 PCI 1x slot"
in addition to not listing the PCI-E x16. There were a few other errors
in that paragraph. I appreciate you pointing that out, it limits my
embarrassment.  I better take a closer look at it tomorrow, I was off my
game today in this area. I have T.B.I. and seeing mistakes like that
freaks the hell out of me.

Much appreciation,
Rich H

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> On Dec 10, 2007 1:36 PM, Rich Hughes <admin at linuxtechdaily.com> wrote:
>   
>> Hey guys,
>>
>> Thanks for all of the input about the P4 barebones system. I give you
>> guys credit in the review. If anyone is interested, here is the link:
>>
>> http://www.linuxtechdaily.com/2007/12/review-geekscom-pentium-4-34ghz-barebones-system/
>>     
>
> The only error I noticed in your review is the number of PCI/PCI-E
> slots listed is vague.  According to Foxconn:
>
> 1 x PCI-E x16
> 3 x PCI-E x1
> 3 x PCI
>   



From radkins at impelind.com  Tue Dec 11 08:23:21 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 08:23:21 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Need advice on network authentication design
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90712101854ld7d226cq5088118c377e9ee1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20071211133042.082A11412E@impelind.com>



 	
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Hanson
> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 9:54 PM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Need advice on network authentication design
> 
> Sorry about the late reply, I had a hardware failure.  You 
> can read about it here:
> http://jhansonxi.blogspot.com/2007/12/keyboard-led-flashing-panic.html
> 
> On Dec 10, 2007 9:03 AM, Joseph C. Bender 
> <jcbender at bendorius.com> wrote:
> > Though, because I'm curious, why do you need a directory service?
> 
> First, I want to learn how to do centralized authentication 
> and user account control properly on Linux.  I would like to 
> get a feel for it and what it's limitations are as compared 
> to M$AD so I can plan deployments in small businesses and 
> multi-system home networks.
> Second, I want to eliminate having to manually change 
> passwords and keep UIDs and GIDs in sync on different systems 
> and be able to easily administer it remotely.
> 

	I have found the O'Reilly books covering Administration topics to be
extremely excellent and if you want to learn OpenLDAP. I am planning on
picking up this book http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/ldapsa/index.html over
the holidays and get started with that.

	I'm running two servers and have Samba acting as a Primary Domain
Controller on one of the servers, which means I need to sink up three
different sets of uid/password files. I'd rather do some more work up front
and then only need to worry about creating a user account once and then add
that user to various groups he/she needs access to.

 	Unsure if NIS would do the trick as I've had more pressing matters
to attend to, which is also why I am considering picking up this book as
well: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/nfs2/index.html

	Anyway, Windows workstations will cache, more or less forever,
UID/Password combos after they are connected to a domain, which allows users
to still login to their workstations if the domain controller is down or
otherwise unvailable.

	-Rob



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Dec 12 16:01:54 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:01:54 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Virtualization and pets
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712121301qbf6dd9fx4f64b7564e57bd85@mail.gmail.com>

This could turn into another tech craze:
http://xkcd.com/350/


From amajorov at sbcglobal.net  Thu Dec 13 08:46:54 2007
From: amajorov at sbcglobal.net (allen)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 08:46:54 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] linux router
Message-ID: <476137CE.4050301@sbcglobal.net>

I've got an old system I plan to recycle as a router. I've been doing a 
bit of digging and come across LRP and LEAF for the software end of 
things. Beyond those two, and LRP seems to have stopped further 
development, are there any other alternatives?

Allen


From carl at carltm.com  Thu Dec 13 09:02:52 2007
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:02:52 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] linux router
In-Reply-To: <476137CE.4050301@sbcglobal.net>
References: <476137CE.4050301@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <7726.66.51.146.94.1197554572.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

allen wrote:
> I've got an old system I plan to recycle as a router. I've been doing a
> bit of digging and come across LRP and LEAF for the software end of
> things. Beyond those two, and LRP seems to have stopped further
> development, are there any other alternatives?

A simpler approach would be to take a Linux box, include two
network cards and enable routing.  If you did this, you might
want to use iptables as a firewall on either or both of the
interfaces.

If you want to do this, netmasq provides an easy way to configure
the firewall with iptables.  http://www.carltm.com/netmasq/

c




From otakurider at gmail.com  Thu Dec 13 09:27:58 2007
From: otakurider at gmail.com (-)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:27:58 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] linux router
In-Reply-To: <476137CE.4050301@sbcglobal.net>
References: <476137CE.4050301@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <cd5131a50712130627j23645165sd78e542f13ef187b@mail.gmail.com>

You could try IPCop or Smoothwall - IPCop is still being maintained,
Smoothwall seems to be a little dead on the updates.IPCopy allows you you to
set up secured network I/F for things like wireless and DMZ's.
it can do traffic shaping and monitoring traffic flow,  can be configured to
be a NIDS and proxy/capture proxy server.
It can be setup to run on a SD card if needed.
May be a little over kill, but its a option.


Pat Baker
VP MDLUG


On Dec 13, 2007 8:46 AM, allen <amajorov at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> I've got an old system I plan to recycle as a router. I've been doing a
> bit of digging and come across LRP and LEAF for the software end of
> things. Beyond those two, and LRP seems to have stopped further
> development, are there any other alternatives?
>
> Allen
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From starline at wideopenwest.com  Thu Dec 13 14:22:16 2007
From: starline at wideopenwest.com (Bob Dion)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:22:16 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] linux router
In-Reply-To: <476137CE.4050301@sbcglobal.net>
References: <476137CE.4050301@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <47618668.5060809@wideopenwest.com>

allen wrote:
> I've got an old system I plan to recycle as a router. I've been doing a 
> bit of digging and come across LRP and LEAF for the software end of 
> things. Beyond those two, and LRP seems to have stopped further 
> development, are there any other alternatives?
> 

Try Floppy Firewall, Actively maintained, got it's inspiration from LRP 
(may it rest in peace) but floppyfw is not a fork.  runs from a floppy, 
cd, hd, or compact flash.

http://www.zelow.no/floppyfw/index.html

I'm currently running it on a old celeron system.

BD



From tmorris at ugs.com  Thu Dec 13 15:31:16 2007
From: tmorris at ugs.com (Morris, Tim)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:31:16 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] linux router
In-Reply-To: <476137CE.4050301@sbcglobal.net>
References: <476137CE.4050301@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E20407D46D@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>

Oh man... 

There used to be a Linux floppy project that let you build the whole
thing online and just download a floppy image of your settings and
drivers (actually selected the NICs online). I don't think it was LRP,
but I can never remember the name of it, and Google returns too many to
filter. A friend of mine used it for years. If I think of the name I'll
repost. 

I hate not remembering...




--  Tim Morris - UGS PLM Software
-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of allen
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 8:47 AM
To: mdlug Main discussion list
Subject: [mdlug] linux router

I've got an old system I plan to recycle as a router. I've been doing a 
bit of digging and come across LRP and LEAF for the software end of 
things. Beyond those two, and LRP seems to have stopped further 
development, are there any other alternatives?

Allen
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From tmorris at ugs.com  Thu Dec 13 15:39:05 2007
From: tmorris at ugs.com (Morris, Tim)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:39:05 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] linux router
In-Reply-To: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E20407D46D@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
References: <476137CE.4050301@sbcglobal.net>
	<B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E20407D46D@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
Message-ID: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E20407D46E@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>

Found it!

http://www.bbiagent.com/en/index.html

As I said, a friend used it 3 or 4 years ago and was happy with it. I
don't know if it's still under development or not. 

--  Tim Morris - UGS PLM Software

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Morris, Tim
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 3:31 PM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] linux router

Oh man... 

There used to be a Linux floppy project that let you build the whole
thing online and just download a floppy image of your settings and
drivers (actually selected the NICs online). I don't think it was LRP,
but I can never remember the name of it, and Google returns too many to
filter. A friend of mine used it for years. If I think of the name I'll
repost. 

I hate not remembering...




--  Tim Morris - UGS PLM Software
-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of allen
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 8:47 AM
To: mdlug Main discussion list
Subject: [mdlug] linux router

I've got an old system I plan to recycle as a router. I've been doing a 
bit of digging and come across LRP and LEAF for the software end of 
things. Beyond those two, and LRP seems to have stopped further 
development, are there any other alternatives?

Allen
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From tony at bemushosting.com  Thu Dec 13 18:07:40 2007
From: tony at bemushosting.com (Tony Bemus)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 18:07:40 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] linux router
In-Reply-To: <cd5131a50712130627j23645165sd78e542f13ef187b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <476137CE.4050301@sbcglobal.net>
	<cd5131a50712130627j23645165sd78e542f13ef187b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1197587260.23710.1.camel@bemus-tony>

I second IPCop  I used it for about a year and it worked great and did
everything you need including VPN,  site to site and "Road Warrior" with
OpenVPN.
-  
Tony Bemus
Bemus Hosting
www.bemushosting.com


On Thu, 2007-12-13 at 09:27 -0500, - wrote:

> You could try IPCop or Smoothwall - IPCop is still being maintained,
> Smoothwall seems to be a little dead on the updates.IPCopy allows you you to
> set up secured network I/F for things like wireless and DMZ's.
> it can do traffic shaping and monitoring traffic flow,  can be configured to
> be a NIDS and proxy/capture proxy server.
> It can be setup to run on a SD card if needed.
> May be a little over kill, but its a option.
> 
> 
> Pat Baker
> VP MDLUG
> 
> 
> On Dec 13, 2007 8:46 AM, allen <amajorov at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> 
> > I've got an old system I plan to recycle as a router. I've been doing a
> > bit of digging and come across LRP and LEAF for the software end of
> > things. Beyond those two, and LRP seems to have stopped further
> > development, are there any other alternatives?
> >
> > Allen
> > _______________________________________________
> > mdlug mailing list
> > mdlug at mdlug.org
> > http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> >
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From relson at osagesoftware.com  Thu Dec 13 19:05:01 2007
From: relson at osagesoftware.com (David Relson)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:05:01 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] linux router
In-Reply-To: <7726.66.51.146.94.1197554572.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
References: <476137CE.4050301@sbcglobal.net>
	<7726.66.51.146.94.1197554572.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <20071213190501.51f685b8@osage.osagesoftware.com>

On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:02:52 -0500 (EST)
Carl T. Miller wrote:

> allen wrote:
> > I've got an old system I plan to recycle as a router. I've been
> > doing a bit of digging and come across LRP and LEAF for the
> > software end of things. Beyond those two, and LRP seems to have
> > stopped further development, are there any other alternatives?
> 
> A simpler approach would be to take a Linux box, include two
> network cards and enable routing.  If you did this, you might
> want to use iptables as a firewall on either or both of the
> interfaces.
> 
> If you want to do this, netmasq provides an easy way to configure
> the firewall with iptables.  http://www.carltm.com/netmasq/
> 
> c

I started using netmasq some years ago because its setup is clean
and straightforward and lets me know exactly which ports are
enabled.  I've been using it for at least 7 years now (as
timestamps /etc/netmasq/RCS show commits in Oct 2000).

Regards,

David


From muteid10t at gmail.com  Thu Dec 13 21:11:10 2007
From: muteid10t at gmail.com (Ron Blanchett)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:11:10 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] linux router
In-Reply-To: <20071213190501.51f685b8@osage.osagesoftware.com>
References: <476137CE.4050301@sbcglobal.net>
	<7726.66.51.146.94.1197554572.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
	<20071213190501.51f685b8@osage.osagesoftware.com>
Message-ID: <52995d720712131811u62a26a9es23b69817e1f6b8ae@mail.gmail.com>

I use pfSense, It's not Linux based but FreeBSD based.
I have had more success with it than some of the Linux based systems.
For what I have heard IPCop is one of the best Linux Based solutions.

pfSense is making great strides and adds many of the requested
that the community requests in there forums and on there mailing list.

-Ron

On 12/13/07, David Relson <relson at osagesoftware.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:02:52 -0500 (EST)
> Carl T. Miller wrote:
>
> > allen wrote:
> > > I've got an old system I plan to recycle as a router. I've been
> > > doing a bit of digging and come across LRP and LEAF for the
> > > software end of things. Beyond those two, and LRP seems to have
> > > stopped further development, are there any other alternatives?
> >
> > A simpler approach would be to take a Linux box, include two
> > network cards and enable routing.  If you did this, you might
> > want to use iptables as a firewall on either or both of the
> > interfaces.
> >
> > If you want to do this, netmasq provides an easy way to configure
> > the firewall with iptables.  http://www.carltm.com/netmasq/
> >
> > c
>
> I started using netmasq some years ago because its setup is clean
> and straightforward and lets me know exactly which ports are
> enabled.  I've been using it for at least 7 years now (as
> timestamps /etc/netmasq/RCS show commits in Oct 2000).
>
> Regards,
>
> David
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From hornblower at gmail.com  Fri Dec 14 12:51:40 2007
From: hornblower at gmail.com (Matthew Nelson)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 12:51:40 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] linux router
Message-ID: <99324a930712140951k6cab60efmf19a0dd5658958ec@mail.gmail.com>

I have a debian box at home that I use as my router.  i use arno's iptables
firewall script for nat, firewalling, port forwarding etc.  I also use an
802.11g pci card in master mode using wep for wireless connectivity.  i use
two wired nics and the wireless.  one nic is internet and the other wired
and wireless are bridged and use nat.

overall i'm pretty happy with that solution, but i think i'm going to
investigate ipcop and see what it does ;)


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 15 01:03:19 2007
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 01:03:19 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Xbox accused of jamming WLANs
Message-ID: <b67fb0380712142203s3c4ada69y2f468036b57f133d@mail.gmail.com>

This is the first I've seen of this -- why am I NOT surprised?  This
is a good thing to know about if your WLAN starts acting up...

"Xbox accused of jamming WLANs"
** Signals from Microsoft's Xbox 360 game console can disrupt wireless
LANs, according to IT staff at Morrisville State College. **
<http://www.techworld.com/mobility/news/index.cfm?newsid=10941>

This could be a problem for university IT staffs everywhere after Xmas
(if not already!) -- even if they fixed this for future versions, the
units already produced will STILL be a problem...

~~ Mikey


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Sun Dec 16 14:28:45 2007
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 14:28:45 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Soviet Microsoft
Message-ID: <b67fb0380712161128x667335a1vdae80a825526d205@mail.gmail.com>

Here's something that could affect all us Linux users over time.
Agree or disagree, the author raises some interesting points.  His
conclusions are (understandably) a bit more Apple-centric than I would
like, but it IS easier to track Apple than Linux in this context.  Via
<http://blue-gnu.biz> --

"Soviet Microsoft: How Resistance to Free Markets and Open Ideas Will
Unravel the Software Superpower"
<http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2007/12/13/soviet-microsoft-how-resistance-to-free-markets-and-open-ideas-will-the-unravel-the-software-superpower>
or via the original Blue GNU link:
<http://blue-gnu.biz/content/soviet_microsoft>

~~ Mikey


From micorral at comcast.net  Sun Dec 16 15:00:38 2007
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 15:00:38 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Soviet Microsoft
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380712161128x667335a1vdae80a825526d205@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380712161128x667335a1vdae80a825526d205@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712161438290.28210@banana.sluggo.net>

2007-12-16, Monsieur Michael Rudas a ecrit:
> "Soviet Microsoft: How Resistance to Free Markets and Open Ideas Will
> Unravel the Software Superpower"
> <http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2007/12/13/soviet-microsoft-how-resistance-to-free-markets-and-open-ideas-will-the-unravel-the-software-superpower>

What a crock of feces that article is.

Most of the "free market" crowd in fact loves Microsoft. They are,
according to them, a shining example of how the "free market" rewards
those "entrepreneurs", like Gates, who have the "vision" and "gumption"
to start from a small-time operation and become wealthy. Microsoft is
not in any way trying to form a "planned economy", gimme a break.
George W. Bush and his ilk (i.e. rabid right-wing anti-Communists)
*love* Microsoft (notice how they called off the DOJ from nailing MS).

That article is just absurd. When you have to resort to crude appeals
to anti-Communism to argue against *Microsoft* (!), you know your
arguments are weak. What's funny to me is how much of an Apple fanboy
the guy is, when Apple is in many ways even *worse* than Microsoft
when it comes to vendor lock-in and restricting choice. At least MS
allows you to install their crummy OS on any kind of PC, while Apple
only lets you install their OS on their hardware. Hell, even Sun lets
you install Solaris on any PC. So all in all, that guy's an idiot.

Michael


From carl at carltm.com  Sun Dec 16 15:06:15 2007
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 15:06:15 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Discount at ORA
Message-ID: <28292.216.144.215.245.1197835575.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

I seem to recall that MDLUG members can buy books from O'Reilly
and Associates at a discount, but I don't recall the details.

Is there some code that needs to be entered when making an
online purchase?

c




From tony at bemushosting.com  Sun Dec 16 20:25:43 2007
From: tony at bemushosting.com (Tony Bemus)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:25:43 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Soviet Microsoft
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712161438290.28210@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <b67fb0380712161128x667335a1vdae80a825526d205@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712161438290.28210@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <1197854743.32262.7.camel@bemus-tony>

I'm not a Mac fan my self but just for correct details,  there is a x86
version of the Mac OS X.  You can build your own x86 (intel or AMD or
whatever) computer and put the Mac OS on it.
-  
Tony Bemus



On Sun, 2007-12-16 at 15:00 -0500, Michael Corral wrote:

> 2007-12-16, Monsieur Michael Rudas a ecrit:
> > "Soviet Microsoft: How Resistance to Free Markets and Open Ideas Will
> > Unravel the Software Superpower"
> > <http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2007/12/13/soviet-microsoft-how-resistance-to-free-markets-and-open-ideas-will-the-unravel-the-software-superpower>
> 
> What a crock of feces that article is.
> 
> Most of the "free market" crowd in fact loves Microsoft. They are,
> according to them, a shining example of how the "free market" rewards
> those "entrepreneurs", like Gates, who have the "vision" and "gumption"
> to start from a small-time operation and become wealthy. Microsoft is
> not in any way trying to form a "planned economy", gimme a break.
> George W. Bush and his ilk (i.e. rabid right-wing anti-Communists)
> *love* Microsoft (notice how they called off the DOJ from nailing MS).
> 
> That article is just absurd. When you have to resort to crude appeals
> to anti-Communism to argue against *Microsoft* (!), you know your
> arguments are weak. What's funny to me is how much of an Apple fanboy
> the guy is, when Apple is in many ways even *worse* than Microsoft
> when it comes to vendor lock-in and restricting choice. At least MS
> allows you to install their crummy OS on any kind of PC, while Apple
> only lets you install their OS on their hardware. Hell, even Sun lets
> you install Solaris on any PC. So all in all, that guy's an idiot.
> 
> Michael
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From micorral at comcast.net  Sun Dec 16 20:45:30 2007
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:45:30 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Soviet Microsoft
In-Reply-To: <1197854743.32262.7.camel@bemus-tony>
References: <b67fb0380712161128x667335a1vdae80a825526d205@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712161438290.28210@banana.sluggo.net>
	<1197854743.32262.7.camel@bemus-tony>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712162027320.526@banana.sluggo.net>

2007-12-16, Monsieur Tony Bemus a ecrit:
> I'm not a Mac fan my self but just for correct details,  there is a x86
> version of the Mac OS X.

Of course. Apple started making x86 machines a few years ago.

> You can build your own x86 (intel or AMD or
> whatever) computer and put the Mac OS on it.

No you can't, at least not legally. Have you read the OS X license
agreement?
http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/MacOSX.htm
"2. Permitted License Uses and Restrictions.
A. This License allows you to install and use one copy of the Apple
Software on a single Apple-labeled computer at a time."

You're only allowed to install the x86 version on "Apple-labeled"
computers, i.e. on an x86 machine built by Apple. That's the lock-in
I was referring to.

Michael


From tesral at comcast.net  Sun Dec 16 21:23:20 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 21:23:20 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Soviet Microsoft
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712161438290.28210@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <b67fb0380712161128x667335a1vdae80a825526d205@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712161438290.28210@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <4765DD98.3060905@comcast.net>

Michael Corral wrote:
> 2007-12-16, Monsieur Michael Rudas a ecrit:
>   
>> "Soviet Microsoft: How Resistance to Free Markets and Open Ideas Will
>> Unravel the Software Superpower"
>> <http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2007/12/13/soviet-microsoft-how-resistance-to-free-markets-and-open-ideas-will-the-unravel-the-software-superpower>
>>     
>
> What a crock of feces that article is.
>
> Most of the "free market" crowd in fact loves Microsoft.

Excelt the so called free market isn't.  Buch and cronies are
Merchantilists.  They bear the same relation to free market capitalists
as "soviet socialism" did to communism.

So there are no free market people in power right now. 

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Sun Dec 16 22:10:54 2007
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 22:10:54 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Soviet Microsoft
In-Reply-To: <1197854743.32262.7.camel@bemus-tony>
References: <b67fb0380712161128x667335a1vdae80a825526d205@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712161438290.28210@banana.sluggo.net>
	<1197854743.32262.7.camel@bemus-tony>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380712161910n1ed41b2dt6d95d470be85381b@mail.gmail.com>

Tony Bemus wrote:

> I'm not a Mac fan myself but just for correct details,  there is a x86
> version of the Mac OS X.  You can build your own x86 (intel or AMD or
> whatever) computer and put the Mac OS on it.

Not with the "legal" OS X package -- it's tied to Apple hardware.  I
think that what you are thinking of is OpenDarwin, which was
DELIBERATELY crippled and not-quite-functional -- so much so, in fact,
that they shut the project down. See:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDarwin>

And, yes, Apple is as bad as MS -- in some ways, worse.  As Rob
Landley said at the last Penguicon, "Microsoft is evil and
incompetent.  Apple is MORE dangerous in the long run because they're
evil and competent."

~~ Mikey


From me at thomaslawrence.com  Mon Dec 17 09:08:06 2007
From: me at thomaslawrence.com (Thomas Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 09:08:06 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT:FS  DELL POWEREDGE 2500 SERVER
Message-ID: <476682C6.10004@thomaslawrence.com>

Need to sell, Makes a great linux server.  I will take $250 for it.
# Tower
# INTEL PENTIUM III 1.0GHz (dual)
# 1.0GB PC133 RAM  (4 x 256mb)
# 6 HARD DRIVES, 36G,  (currently raid5)
# 2 HARD DRIVES, 18G (currently raid1)
# PERC 128MB RAID ON MOTHER BOARD
# CD-ROM DRIVE
# FLOPPY DRIVE
# 10/100 NIC CARD
# ONBOARD VIDEO

Email or call off list 313-299-1503



From micorral at comcast.net  Mon Dec 17 12:46:41 2007
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 12:46:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] OT:FS  DELL POWEREDGE 2500 SERVER
In-Reply-To: <476682C6.10004@thomaslawrence.com>
References: <476682C6.10004@thomaslawrence.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712171238180.2148@banana.sluggo.net>

2007-12-17, Monsieur Thomas Lawrence a ecrit:
> Need to sell, Makes a great linux server.  I will take $250 for it.
> # Tower
> # INTEL PENTIUM III 1.0GHz (dual)
> # 1.0GB PC133 RAM  (4 x 256mb)
> # 6 HARD DRIVES, 36G,  (currently raid5)
> # 2 HARD DRIVES, 18G (currently raid1)
> # PERC 128MB RAID ON MOTHER BOARD
> # CD-ROM DRIVE
> # FLOPPY DRIVE
> # 10/100 NIC CARD
> # ONBOARD VIDEO

I think your price mistakenly has a 2 at the beginning. :)

Michael


From MCMay at RGIS.com  Mon Dec 17 16:05:06 2007
From: MCMay at RGIS.com (May, Mat)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 16:05:06 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel upgrade problems
Message-ID: <CA462815C6533D42B452BA68A6CE6A0502A028C8@HQEX01.na.ad.rgis.com>

I am running RHEL AS 3 Update 9 on Dell PowerEdge 2850s and I have just
updated the kernel from 2.4.21-27.0.4.ELsmp to 2.4.21-53.ELsmp and when
I reboot the server to use the new kernel I get the following error:
 
            VFS: Cannot open root device "LABEL=/" or 00:00
            Please append a correct "root=" boot option
            Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 00:00
 
I then went into the grub.conf and changed the entry replacing the
"LABEL=" with "/dev/sda3" which is my / partition and also changed the
"root=" from 0:0 to 0:2.  After reboot I received the following error:
 
            Kmod: failed to exec /sbin/modprobe -s -k block-major-8,
errno = 2
            VFS: Cannot open root device "sda3" or 08:03
            Please append a corrent "root=" boot option
            Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 08:30
 
Here are my grub.conf and device.map files.  
 
Grub.conf
 
[root at dc1-21 grub]# more grub.conf
# grub.conf generated by anaconda
#
# Note that you do not have to rerun grub after making changes to this
file
# NOTICE:  You have a /boot partition.  This means that
#          all kernel and initrd paths are relative to /boot/, eg.
#          root (hd0,0)
#          kernel /vmlinuz-version ro root=/dev/sda3
#          initrd /initrd-version.img
#boot=/dev/sda
default=1
timeout=10
splashimage=(hd0,0)/grub/splash.xpm.gz
title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-53.EL)
        root (hd0,0)
        kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.EL ro root=LABEL=/
        initrd /initrd-2.4.21-53.EL.img
title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-53.ELsmp)
        root (hd0,2)
        kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.ELsmp ro root=LABEL=/
        initrd /initrd-2.4.21-53.ELsmp.img
title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-27.0.4.EL)
        root (hd0,0)
        kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-27.0.4.EL ro root=LABEL=/
        initrd /initrd-2.4.21-27.0.4.EL.img
title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-27.0.4.ELsmp)
        root (hd0,0)
        kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-27.0.4.ELsmp ro root=LABEL=/
        initrd /initrd-2.4.21-27.0.4.ELsmp.img
 
device.map
 
[root at dc1-21 grub]# more device.map
# this device map was generated by anaconda
(fd0)     /dev/fd0
(hd0)     /dev/sda
 
I can boot into the older kernel version no problem, but I cannot figure
out what to change to allow me to boot into the newer version.  Any help
would be greatly appreciated.
 
 
In a world without walls and fences, why do we need Windows and Gates?
Mathew May
RGIS LLC
Inventory System Support
mcmay at rgis.com
(248)608-8244
 
 


NOTE: The information in this email may be confidential and legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipi?ent, you must not read, use or disseminate the information; please advise the sender immediately by reply email and delete this message and any attachments without retaining a copy. Although this email and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that may affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by RGIS, LLC for any loss or damage arising in any way from its use.


From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Tue Dec 18 08:10:06 2007
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 08:10:06 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel upgrade problems
In-Reply-To: <CA462815C6533D42B452BA68A6CE6A0502A028C8@HQEX01.na.ad.rgis.com>
Message-ID: <C38D30DE.52798%GregWojtak@quickenloans.com>

Unless you have another /boot partition, the root(hd0,0) should stay the
same.  This is the grub root, not the system root (/).  Try this entry:

title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-53.ELsmp)
        root (hd0,0)
        kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.ELsmp ro root=/dev/sda3
        initrd /initrd-2.4.21-53.ELsmp.img


Note the changes to the "root" line and the "kernel" line.

Greg


On 12/17/07 4:05 PM, "May, Mat" <MCMay at RGIS.com> wrote:

> I am running RHEL AS 3 Update 9 on Dell PowerEdge 2850s and I have just
> updated the kernel from 2.4.21-27.0.4.ELsmp to 2.4.21-53.ELsmp and when
> I reboot the server to use the new kernel I get the following error:
>  
>             VFS: Cannot open root device "LABEL=/" or 00:00
>             Please append a correct "root=" boot option
>             Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 00:00
>  
> I then went into the grub.conf and changed the entry replacing the
> "LABEL=" with "/dev/sda3" which is my / partition and also changed the
> "root=" from 0:0 to 0:2.  After reboot I received the following error:
>  
>             Kmod: failed to exec /sbin/modprobe -s -k block-major-8,
> errno = 2
>             VFS: Cannot open root device "sda3" or 08:03
>             Please append a corrent "root=" boot option
>             Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 08:30
>  
> Here are my grub.conf and device.map files.
>  
> Grub.conf
>  
> [root at dc1-21 grub]# more grub.conf
> # grub.conf generated by anaconda
> #
> # Note that you do not have to rerun grub after making changes to this
> file
> # NOTICE:  You have a /boot partition.  This means that
> #          all kernel and initrd paths are relative to /boot/, eg.
> #          root (hd0,0)
> #          kernel /vmlinuz-version ro root=/dev/sda3
> #          initrd /initrd-version.img
> #boot=/dev/sda
> default=1
> timeout=10
> splashimage=(hd0,0)/grub/splash.xpm.gz
> title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-53.EL)
>         root (hd0,0)
>         kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.EL ro root=LABEL=/
>         initrd /initrd-2.4.21-53.EL.img
> title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-53.ELsmp)
>         root (hd0,2)
>         kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.ELsmp ro root=LABEL=/
>         initrd /initrd-2.4.21-53.ELsmp.img
> title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-27.0.4.EL)
>         root (hd0,0)
>         kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-27.0.4.EL ro root=LABEL=/
>         initrd /initrd-2.4.21-27.0.4.EL.img
> title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-27.0.4.ELsmp)
>         root (hd0,0)
>         kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-27.0.4.ELsmp ro root=LABEL=/
>         initrd /initrd-2.4.21-27.0.4.ELsmp.img
>  
> device.map
>  
> [root at dc1-21 grub]# more device.map
> # this device map was generated by anaconda
> (fd0)     /dev/fd0
> (hd0)     /dev/sda
>  
> I can boot into the older kernel version no problem, but I cannot figure
> out what to change to allow me to boot into the newer version.  Any help
> would be greatly appreciated.
>  
>  
> In a world without walls and fences, why do we need Windows and Gates?
> Mathew May
> RGIS LLC
> Inventory System Support
> mcmay at rgis.com
> (248)608-8244
>  
>  
> 
> 
> NOTE: The information in this email may be confidential and legally
> privileged. If you are not the intended recipi?ent, you must not read, use or
> disseminate the information; please advise the sender immediately by reply
> email and delete this message and any attachments without retaining a copy.
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> and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is
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> damage arising in any way from its use.
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From rjclay at gmail.com  Tue Dec 18 08:58:35 2007
From: rjclay at gmail.com (Robert J. Clay)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 08:58:35 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] linux router
In-Reply-To: <476137CE.4050301@sbcglobal.net>
References: <476137CE.4050301@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <a379574a0712180558x35857113xf83d92b737b12cc5@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/13/07, allen <amajorov at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> I've got an old system I plan to recycle as a router. I've been doing a
> bit of digging and come across LRP and LEAF for the software end of
> things. Beyond those two, and LRP seems to have stopped further
> development, are there any other alternatives?

   I originally used LRP on an old 486 but now run a Debian based
firewall using Shorewall...



-- 
Robert J. Clay
rjclay at gmail.com


From driveray at ameritech.net  Tue Dec 18 13:49:39 2007
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 13:49:39 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, December 11]
Message-ID: <47681643.3020208@ameritech.net>

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From MCMay at RGIS.com  Tue Dec 18 14:00:58 2007
From: MCMay at RGIS.com (May, Mat)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 14:00:58 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel upgrade problems
In-Reply-To: <C38D30DE.52798%GregWojtak@quickenloans.com>
Message-ID: <CA462815C6533D42B452BA68A6CE6A0502A028D1@HQEX01.na.ad.rgis.com>

Ok, now this is totally driving me crazy, and I am sure that it is going
to be something really simple that I have overlooked once I pull my
forehead off the wall.  
 
I tried the entry that you listed below, and the system panicked again.
After some quick digging and few pushes of the power button I have the
following information:
 
The / partition is /dev/sda3
The /boot partition is /dev/sda1
Both the vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.ELsmp and initrd-2.4.21-53.ELsmp.img files
reside in the "/boot" directory (sorry if I am explaining things
everyone already knows)
Using e2label I have verified the following:  "/dev/sda1" is "/boot" and
"/dev/sda3" is "/"
Here are the results from various grub.conf configurations:
 
Boot using:       title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-53.ELsmp)
                        root (hd0,0)
                        kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.ELsmp ro
root=/dev/sda3
                        initrd /initrd-2.4.21-53.ELsmp.img
Result:                 
            Creating block devices
            Kmod: failed to exec /sbin/modprobe -s -k block-major8,
errno = 2
            VFS: Cannot open root device "sda3" or 08:03
            Please append a correct "root=" boot option
            Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 08:03
 
Boot using:       title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-53.ELsmp)
                        root (hd0,0)
                        kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.ELsmp ro
root=LABEL=/boot
                        initrd /initrd-2.4.21-53.ELsmp.img
Results:          
            Creating block devices
            VFS: Cannot open root devices "LABEL=/boot" or 00:00
            Please append a correct "root=" boot option
            Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 00:00
 
Boot using:       title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-53.ELsmp)
                        root (hd0,0)
                        kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.ELsmp ro
root=/dev/sda1
                        initrd /initrd-2.4.21-53.ELsmp.img  
Result:
Creating block device
Kmod: failed to exec /sbin/modprobe -s -k block-major-8, errno = 2
VFS: Cannot open root device "sda1" or 08:00
Please append a correct "root=" boot option
Kerner panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 08:01
 
Boot using:       title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-53.ELsmp)
                        root (hd0,0)
                        kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.ELsmp ro root=LABEL=/
                        initrd /initrd-2.4.21-53.ELsmp.img
Result:     
Creating block devices
            VFS: Cannot open root device "LABEL=/" or 00:00
            Please append a correct "root=" boot option
            Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 00:00
 
 
 
In a world without walls and fences, why do we need Windows and Gates?
 
Mathew May
 
RGIS LLC
 
Inventory System Support
 
mcmay at rgis.com
 
(248)608-8244
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Wojtak, Greg
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 8:10 AM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Kernel upgrade problems
 
Unless you have another /boot partition, the root(hd0,0) should stay the
same.  This is the grub root, not the system root (/).  Try this entry:
 
title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-53.ELsmp)
        root (hd0,0)
        kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.ELsmp ro root=/dev/sda3
        initrd /initrd-2.4.21-53.ELsmp.img
 
 
Note the changes to the "root" line and the "kernel" line.
 
Greg
 
 
On 12/17/07 4:05 PM, "May, Mat" <MCMay at RGIS.com> wrote:
 
> I am running RHEL AS 3 Update 9 on Dell PowerEdge 2850s and I have
just
> updated the kernel from 2.4.21-27.0.4.ELsmp to 2.4.21-53.ELsmp and
when
> I reboot the server to use the new kernel I get the following error:
>  
>             VFS: Cannot open root device "LABEL=/" or 00:00
>             Please append a correct "root=" boot option
>             Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 00:00
>  
> I then went into the grub.conf and changed the entry replacing the
> "LABEL=" with "/dev/sda3" which is my / partition and also changed the
> "root=" from 0:0 to 0:2.  After reboot I received the following error:
>  
>             Kmod: failed to exec /sbin/modprobe -s -k block-major-8,
> errno = 2
>             VFS: Cannot open root device "sda3" or 08:03
>             Please append a corrent "root=" boot option
>             Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 08:30
>  
> Here are my grub.conf and device.map files.
>  
> Grub.conf
>  
> [root at dc1-21 grub]# more grub.conf
> # grub.conf generated by anaconda
> #
> # Note that you do not have to rerun grub after making changes to this
> file
> # NOTICE:  You have a /boot partition.  This means that
> #          all kernel and initrd paths are relative to /boot/, eg.
> #          root (hd0,0)
> #          kernel /vmlinuz-version ro root=/dev/sda3
> #          initrd /initrd-version.img
> #boot=/dev/sda
> default=1
> timeout=10
> splashimage=(hd0,0)/grub/splash.xpm.gz
> title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-53.EL)
>         root (hd0,0)
>         kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.EL ro root=LABEL=/
>         initrd /initrd-2.4.21-53.EL.img
> title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-53.ELsmp)
>         root (hd0,2)
>         kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.ELsmp ro root=LABEL=/
>         initrd /initrd-2.4.21-53.ELsmp.img
> title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-27.0.4.EL)
>         root (hd0,0)
>         kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-27.0.4.EL ro root=LABEL=/
>         initrd /initrd-2.4.21-27.0.4.EL.img
> title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-27.0.4.ELsmp)
>         root (hd0,0)
>         kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-27.0.4.ELsmp ro root=LABEL=/
>         initrd /initrd-2.4.21-27.0.4.ELsmp.img
>  
> device.map
>  
> [root at dc1-21 grub]# more device.map
> # this device map was generated by anaconda
> (fd0)     /dev/fd0
> (hd0)     /dev/sda
>  
> I can boot into the older kernel version no problem, but I cannot
figure
> out what to change to allow me to boot into the newer version.  Any
help
> would be greatly appreciated.
>  
>  
> In a world without walls and fences, why do we need Windows and Gates?
> Mathew May
> RGIS LLC
> Inventory System Support
> mcmay at rgis.com
> (248)608-8244
>  
>  
> 
> 
> NOTE: The information in this email may be confidential and legally
> privileged. If you are not the intended recipi-ent, you must not read,
use or
> disseminate the information; please advise the sender immediately by
reply
> email and delete this message and any attachments without retaining a
copy.
> Although this email and any attachments are believed to be free of any
virus
> or other defect that may affect any computer system into which it is
received
> and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that
it is
> virus free and no responsibility is accepted by RGIS, LLC for any loss
or
> damage arising in any way from its use.
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
 
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


NOTE: The information in this email may be confidential and legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipi?ent, you must not read, use or disseminate the information; please advise the sender immediately by reply email and delete this message and any attachments without retaining a copy. Although this email and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that may affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by RGIS, LLC for any loss or damage arising in any way from its use.


From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Tue Dec 18 16:13:22 2007
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:13:22 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel upgrade problems
In-Reply-To: <CA462815C6533D42B452BA68A6CE6A0502A028D1@HQEX01.na.ad.rgis.com>
Message-ID: <C38DA222.52898%GregWojtak@quickenloans.com>

Maybe try removing the new kernel and reinstalling?

[root at host ~]# rpm -e kernel-2.4.21-53.ELsmp kernel-2.4.21-53.EL
[root at host ~]# up2date -if kernel-smp

See if that helps at all.


On 12/18/07 2:00 PM, "May, Mat" <MCMay at RGIS.com> wrote:

> Ok, now this is totally driving me crazy, and I am sure that it is going
> to be something really simple that I have overlooked once I pull my
> forehead off the wall.
>  
> I tried the entry that you listed below, and the system panicked again.
> After some quick digging and few pushes of the power button I have the
> following information:
>  
> The / partition is /dev/sda3
> The /boot partition is /dev/sda1
> Both the vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.ELsmp and initrd-2.4.21-53.ELsmp.img files
> reside in the "/boot" directory (sorry if I am explaining things
> everyone already knows)
> Using e2label I have verified the following:  "/dev/sda1" is "/boot" and
> "/dev/sda3" is "/"
> Here are the results from various grub.conf configurations:
>  
> Boot using:       title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-53.ELsmp)
>                         root (hd0,0)
>                         kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.ELsmp ro
> root=/dev/sda3
>                         initrd /initrd-2.4.21-53.ELsmp.img
> Result:          
>             Creating block devices
>             Kmod: failed to exec /sbin/modprobe -s -k block-major8,
> errno = 2
>             VFS: Cannot open root device "sda3" or 08:03
>             Please append a correct "root=" boot option
>             Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 08:03
>  
> Boot using:       title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-53.ELsmp)
>                         root (hd0,0)
>                         kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.ELsmp ro
> root=LABEL=/boot
>                         initrd /initrd-2.4.21-53.ELsmp.img
> Results:         
>             Creating block devices
>             VFS: Cannot open root devices "LABEL=/boot" or 00:00
>             Please append a correct "root=" boot option
>             Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 00:00
>  
> Boot using:       title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-53.ELsmp)
>                         root (hd0,0)
>                         kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.ELsmp ro
> root=/dev/sda1
>                         initrd /initrd-2.4.21-53.ELsmp.img
> Result:
> Creating block device
> Kmod: failed to exec /sbin/modprobe -s -k block-major-8, errno = 2
> VFS: Cannot open root device "sda1" or 08:00
> Please append a correct "root=" boot option
> Kerner panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 08:01
>  
> Boot using:       title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-53.ELsmp)
>                         root (hd0,0)
>                         kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.ELsmp ro root=LABEL=/
>                         initrd /initrd-2.4.21-53.ELsmp.img
> Result:     
> Creating block devices
>             VFS: Cannot open root device "LABEL=/" or 00:00
>             Please append a correct "root=" boot option
>             Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 00:00
>  
>  
>  
> In a world without walls and fences, why do we need Windows and Gates?
>  
> Mathew May
>  
> RGIS LLC
>  
> Inventory System Support
>  
> mcmay at rgis.com
>  
> (248)608-8244
>  
>  
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
> Of Wojtak, Greg
> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 8:10 AM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Kernel upgrade problems
>  
> Unless you have another /boot partition, the root(hd0,0) should stay the
> same.  This is the grub root, not the system root (/).  Try this entry:
>  
> title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-53.ELsmp)
>         root (hd0,0)
>         kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.ELsmp ro root=/dev/sda3
>         initrd /initrd-2.4.21-53.ELsmp.img
>  
>  
> Note the changes to the "root" line and the "kernel" line.
>  
> Greg
>  
>  
> On 12/17/07 4:05 PM, "May, Mat" <MCMay at RGIS.com> wrote:
>  
>> I am running RHEL AS 3 Update 9 on Dell PowerEdge 2850s and I have
> just
>> updated the kernel from 2.4.21-27.0.4.ELsmp to 2.4.21-53.ELsmp and
> when
>> I reboot the server to use the new kernel I get the following error:
>>  
>>             VFS: Cannot open root device "LABEL=/" or 00:00
>>             Please append a correct "root=" boot option
>>             Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 00:00
>>  
>> I then went into the grub.conf and changed the entry replacing the
>> "LABEL=" with "/dev/sda3" which is my / partition and also changed the
>> "root=" from 0:0 to 0:2.  After reboot I received the following error:
>>  
>>             Kmod: failed to exec /sbin/modprobe -s -k block-major-8,
>> errno = 2
>>             VFS: Cannot open root device "sda3" or 08:03
>>             Please append a corrent "root=" boot option
>>             Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 08:30
>>  
>> Here are my grub.conf and device.map files.
>>  
>> Grub.conf
>>  
>> [root at dc1-21 grub]# more grub.conf
>> # grub.conf generated by anaconda
>> #
>> # Note that you do not have to rerun grub after making changes to this
>> file
>> # NOTICE:  You have a /boot partition.  This means that
>> #          all kernel and initrd paths are relative to /boot/, eg.
>> #          root (hd0,0)
>> #          kernel /vmlinuz-version ro root=/dev/sda3
>> #          initrd /initrd-version.img
>> #boot=/dev/sda
>> default=1
>> timeout=10
>> splashimage=(hd0,0)/grub/splash.xpm.gz
>> title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-53.EL)
>>         root (hd0,0)
>>         kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.EL ro root=LABEL=/
>>         initrd /initrd-2.4.21-53.EL.img
>> title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-53.ELsmp)
>>         root (hd0,2)
>>         kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.ELsmp ro root=LABEL=/
>>         initrd /initrd-2.4.21-53.ELsmp.img
>> title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-27.0.4.EL)
>>         root (hd0,0)
>>         kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-27.0.4.EL ro root=LABEL=/
>>         initrd /initrd-2.4.21-27.0.4.EL.img
>> title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-27.0.4.ELsmp)
>>         root (hd0,0)
>>         kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-27.0.4.ELsmp ro root=LABEL=/
>>         initrd /initrd-2.4.21-27.0.4.ELsmp.img
>>  
>> device.map
>>  
>> [root at dc1-21 grub]# more device.map
>> # this device map was generated by anaconda
>> (fd0)     /dev/fd0
>> (hd0)     /dev/sda
>>  
>> I can boot into the older kernel version no problem, but I cannot
> figure
>> out what to change to allow me to boot into the newer version.  Any
> help
>> would be greatly appreciated.
>>  
>>  
>> In a world without walls and fences, why do we need Windows and Gates?
>> Mathew May
>> RGIS LLC
>> Inventory System Support
>> mcmay at rgis.com
>> (248)608-8244
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> NOTE: The information in this email may be confidential and legally
>> privileged. If you are not the intended recipi-ent, you must not read,
> use or
>> disseminate the information; please advise the sender immediately by
> reply
>> email and delete this message and any attachments without retaining a
> copy.
>> Although this email and any attachments are believed to be free of any
> virus
>> or other defect that may affect any computer system into which it is
> received
>> and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that
> it is
>> virus free and no responsibility is accepted by RGIS, LLC for any loss
> or
>> damage arising in any way from its use.
>> _______________________________________________
>> mdlug mailing list
>> mdlug at mdlug.org
>> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>  
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 
> 
> NOTE: The information in this email may be confidential and legally
> privileged. If you are not the intended recipi?ent, you must not read, use or
> disseminate the information; please advise the sender immediately by reply
> email and delete this message and any attachments without retaining a copy.
> Although this email and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus
> or other defect that may affect any computer system into which it is received
> and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is
> virus free and no responsibility is accepted by RGIS, LLC for any loss or
> damage arising in any way from its use.
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From driveray at ameritech.net  Tue Dec 18 16:13:43 2007
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:13:43 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] President's Mail bag  [Fwd: Embedded Developer]
Message-ID: <47683807.60205@ameritech.net>

Passed along without comment:

> Found your user?s group on line and wanted to see if there is any method
> of advertising an open Embedded Linux Developer?s position with your
> group or other groups for a lead position here in the Kansas City, MO
> area.  Great position and will pay up to $150K with possible,
> substantial bonuses and stock options.  There would also be a good
> relocation package as well.  Let me know if you have any suggestions. 
> Thanks!
> 
> Dan Prussing
> 
> 2405 Grand, Suite #390
> 
> Kansas City, MO  64108
> 
> phone:  816-471-5575 x304
> 
> fax:  816-471-6690
> 
> Website:  www.austintec.com <http://www.austintec.com>
> 
>  
> 



From driveray at ameritech.net  Tue Dec 18 16:19:20 2007
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:19:20 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Please trim your posts-- Re:  Kernel upgrade problems
In-Reply-To: <C38DA222.52898%GregWojtak@quickenloans.com>
References: <C38DA222.52898%GregWojtak@quickenloans.com>
Message-ID: <47683958.9030401@ameritech.net>

Please trim your posts.

Wojtak, Greg wrote:
> Maybe try removing the new kernel and reinstalling?
> 
> [root at host ~]# rpm -e kernel-2.4.21-53.ELsmp kernel-2.4.21-53.EL
> [root at host ~]# up2date -if kernel-smp
> 
> See if that helps at all.
> 
> 
> On 12/18/07 2:00 PM, "May, Mat" <MCMay at RGIS.com> wrote:
> 


From MCMay at RGIS.com  Tue Dec 18 16:40:37 2007
From: MCMay at RGIS.com (May, Mat)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:40:37 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Please trim your posts-- Re:  Kernel upgrade problems
In-Reply-To: <47683958.9030401@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <CA462815C6533D42B452BA68A6CE6A0502A028D6@HQEX01.na.ad.rgis.com>

Sorry, didn't mean to hog everyone's mail boxes.

In a world without walls and fences, why do we need Windows and Gates?

Mathew May

RGIS LLC

Inventory System Support

mcmay at rgis.com

(248)608-8244

 


NOTE: The information in this email may be confidential and legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipi?ent, you must not read, use or disseminate the information; please advise the sender immediately by reply email and delete this message and any attachments without retaining a copy. Although this email and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that may affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by RGIS, LLC for any loss or damage arising in any way from its use.


From set at pobox.com  Tue Dec 18 17:18:36 2007
From: set at pobox.com (Paul)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 17:18:36 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel upgrade problems
In-Reply-To: <C38DA222.52898%GregWojtak@quickenloans.com>
References: <CA462815C6533D42B452BA68A6CE6A0502A028D1@HQEX01.na.ad.rgis.com>
	<C38DA222.52898%GregWojtak@quickenloans.com>
Message-ID: <20071218221836.GE29501@squish.home.loc>

"Wojtak, Greg" <GregWojtak at quickenloans.com>, on Tue Dec 18, 2007 [04:13:22 PM] said:
> Maybe try removing the new kernel and reinstalling?
> 
> [root at host ~]# rpm -e kernel-2.4.21-53.ELsmp kernel-2.4.21-53.EL
> [root at host ~]# up2date -if kernel-smp
> 
> See if that helps at all.
> 
> 
> On 12/18/07 2:00 PM, "May, Mat" <MCMay at RGIS.com> wrote:
> 
> > Ok, now this is totally driving me crazy, and I am sure that it is going
> > to be something really simple that I have overlooked once I pull my
> > forehead off the wall.
> >  
> > I tried the entry that you listed below, and the system panicked again.
> > After some quick digging and few pushes of the power button I have the
> > following information:
> >  
> > The / partition is /dev/sda3
> > The /boot partition is /dev/sda1
> > Both the vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.ELsmp and initrd-2.4.21-53.ELsmp.img files
> > reside in the "/boot" directory (sorry if I am explaining things
> > everyone already knows)
> > Using e2label I have verified the following:  "/dev/sda1" is "/boot" and
> > "/dev/sda3" is "/"
> > Here are the results from various grub.conf configurations:
> >  
> > Boot using:       title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-53.ELsmp)
> >                         root (hd0,0)
> >                         kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.ELsmp ro
> > root=/dev/sda3
> >                         initrd /initrd-2.4.21-53.ELsmp.img
> > Result:          
> >             Creating block devices
> >             Kmod: failed to exec /sbin/modprobe -s -k block-major8,
> > errno = 2
> >             VFS: Cannot open root device "sda3" or 08:03
> >             Please append a correct "root=" boot option
> >             Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 08:03
> >  

	Hi;

	Well, the above message shows the kernel trying to load a module
to handle block-major8 and failing. Devices have a major and minor
numbering scheme; major 8 == scsi disk, minor 3 == partition 3. Since
you are using an initrd, there could be some problem with that image.
(or it could just be the kernels desparate attempt to get get a driver
to handle this device because for whatever reason it was unable to.)
If you can see earlier boot messages you might see if the kernel ever
detects your scsi disk. Because it appears that when it gets to the
point of trying to mount the root filesystem, it hasnt found a scsi
disk of that description.

Paul
set at pobox.com



From dobwan at earthlink.net  Tue Dec 18 20:32:05 2007
From: dobwan at earthlink.net (Duane Brown)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 20:32:05 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Please trim your posts
In-Reply-To: <47683958.9030401@ameritech.net>
References: <C38DA222.52898%GregWojtak@quickenloans.com>
	<47683958.9030401@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <47687495.5030106@earthlink.net>

Me too

the above is as abusive as "Please trim your posts."


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Wed Dec 19 06:14:27 2007
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 06:14:27 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] VMWare on openSUSE 10.3 Cannot Find C Header Files
Message-ID: <1198062867.4658.38.camel@plumber.site>

Hello Everyone,
	I'm trying to get VMware v5.5.5 configured on openSUSE 10.3. After
issuing ./vmware-install.pl all goes well with the default configuration
until I get to:

None of the pre-built vmmon modules for VMware Workstation is suitable
for your
running kernel.  Do you want this program to try to build the vmmon
module for 
your system (you need to have a C compiler installed on your system)?
[yes] 

Using compiler "/usr/bin/gcc". Use environment variable CC to override.

What is the location of the directory of C header files that match your
running
kernel? [/usr/src/linux/include] 

The path "/usr/src/linux/include" is not an existing directory.

	The compiler I have installed is gcc 4.2. I can't seem to find anything
on VMware discussion list about this. The last time I ran VMware was on
openSUSE 10.2 so I'm assuming something changed. Is the location of the
C header files the directory in which it's installed? I'm unsuccessfully
trying to search for that using Nautilus. Which direction do I go from
here?

Best Regards,
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From carl at carltm.com  Wed Dec 19 06:26:38 2007
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 06:26:38 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] VMWare on openSUSE 10.3 Cannot Find C Header Files
In-Reply-To: <1198062867.4658.38.camel@plumber.site>
References: <1198062867.4658.38.camel@plumber.site>
Message-ID: <17574.216.144.215.245.1198063598.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

Peter Bart wrote:
> 	I'm trying to get VMware v5.5.5 configured on openSUSE 10.3. After
> issuing ./vmware-install.pl all goes well with the default configuration
> until I get to:
>
> What is the location of the directory of C header files that match your
> running
> kernel? [/usr/src/linux/include]

The vmware-install.pl program will find the C header files directory
if it's in a "normal" location.  If it can't find it, it offers
/usr/src/linux/include as the default option.

This probably means that you don't have the kernel-source or
kernel-headers package installed (I forget which one you need for
an OpenSuSE system).  After installing the kernel headers and
rerunning vmware-install.pl you should see a valid option appear
at this point in the program.

c




From radkins at impelind.com  Wed Dec 19 08:54:26 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 08:54:26 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] VMWare on openSUSE 10.3 Cannot Find C Header Files
In-Reply-To: <17574.216.144.215.245.1198063598.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <20071219140202.995581412E@impelind.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Carl T. Miller
> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 6:27 AM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] VMWare on openSUSE 10.3 Cannot Find C 
> Header Files
> 
> Peter Bart wrote:
> > 	I'm trying to get VMware v5.5.5 configured on openSUSE 
> 10.3. After 
> > issuing ./vmware-install.pl all goes well with the default 
> > configuration until I get to:
> >
> > What is the location of the directory of C header files that match 
> > your running kernel? [/usr/src/linux/include]
> 
> The vmware-install.pl program will find the C header files 
> directory if it's in a "normal" location.  If it can't find 
> it, it offers /usr/src/linux/include as the default option.
> 
> This probably means that you don't have the kernel-source or 
> kernel-headers package installed (I forget which one you need 
> for an OpenSuSE system).  After installing the kernel headers 
> and rerunning vmware-install.pl you should see a valid option 
> appear at this point in the program.
> 
> c
> 

	I concur. It sounds like all you need to do is run Yast2, load up
the Install Software module, type "Kernel" into the search box and then
check to see if you installed the Kernel source. If that is missing, install
it and voila, problem solved.

	-Rob



From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Mon Dec 17 10:17:45 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:17:45 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Soviet Microsoft
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712161438290.28210@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <b67fb0380712161128x667335a1vdae80a825526d205@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712161438290.28210@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <47669319.60309@hotpop.com>

Michael Corral wrote:
> 2007-12-16, Monsieur Michael Rudas a ecrit:
>> "Soviet Microsoft: How Resistance to Free Markets and Open Ideas Will
>> Unravel the Software Superpower"
>> <http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2007/12/13/soviet-microsoft-how-resistance-to-free-markets-and-open-ideas-will-the-unravel-the-software-superpower>
> 
> What a crock of feces that article is.
> 
> Most of the "free market" crowd in fact loves Microsoft. They are,
> according to them, a shining example of how the "free market" rewards
> those "entrepreneurs", like Gates, who have the "vision" and "gumption"
> to start from a small-time operation and become wealthy. Microsoft is
> not in any way trying to form a "planned economy", gimme a break.
> George W. Bush and his ilk (i.e. rabid right-wing anti-Communists)
> *love* Microsoft (notice how they called off the DOJ from nailing MS).

Which is merely evidence that most of the pro-free-market
crowd has been successfully propagandized by Microsoft,
NOT that the article is wrong.

Eric S. Raymond (a pro-free market libertarian) makes
many of the same arguments concerning Microsoft being
VERY adverse to competing in a true free market.


> 
> That article is just absurd. When you have to resort to crude appeals
> to anti-Communism to argue against *Microsoft* (!), you know your
> arguments are weak. What's funny to me is how much of an Apple fanboy
> the guy is, when Apple is in many ways even *worse* than Microsoft
> when it comes to vendor lock-in and restricting choice. At least MS
> allows you to install their crummy OS on any kind of PC, while Apple
> only lets you install their OS on their hardware. Hell, even Sun lets
> you install Solaris on any PC. So all in all, that guy's an idiot.
> 

I think your fondness for socialism has clouded your
understanding of Stallman's point.

> Michael




From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Mon Dec 17 10:30:56 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:30:56 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Soviet Microsoft
In-Reply-To: <4765DD98.3060905@comcast.net>
References: <b67fb0380712161128x667335a1vdae80a825526d205@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712161438290.28210@banana.sluggo.net>
	<4765DD98.3060905@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <47669630.2070200@hotpop.com>

Garry Stahl wrote:
> Michael Corral wrote:
>> 2007-12-16, Monsieur Michael Rudas a ecrit:
>>   
>>> "Soviet Microsoft: How Resistance to Free Markets and Open Ideas Will
>>> Unravel the Software Superpower"
>>> <http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2007/12/13/soviet-microsoft-how-resistance-to-free-markets-and-open-ideas-will-the-unravel-the-software-superpower>
>>>     
>> What a crock of feces that article is.
>>
>> Most of the "free market" crowd in fact loves Microsoft.
> 
> Excelt the so called free market isn't.  Buch and cronies are
> Merchantilists.  They bear the same relation to free market capitalists
> as "soviet socialism" did to communism.
> 
> So there are no free market people in power right now. 
> 


As I recall, the judge on the last big MS lawsuit (Pennfield?)
the one who was kicked off for making factually correct
statements about Gates and other senior executives committing
perjury in his courtroom (which were viewed as "inappropriate
for a judge") was a Reagan appointee.  He's the one who ruled
that MS was absolutely without a doubt guilty (far past the
standard of "beyond reasonable doubt") -- but before the
case got to the remedy phase, he was replaced by Kotalar-Kelly,
who wimped out, and allowed MS to keep it's current configuration
which only ENCOURAGES more of the same.

(Pennfield was considering splitting up MS into two companies.
Most likely an OS company, and an Apps company, most of the
motivation for continued monopolistic behavior would have
been removed.  The Apps people would have no reason to
no port apps.  And the OS people would have nor reason to
provide preferential treatment (disclosure of otherwise
unknown system calls, etc) to the MS-Apps people.  And of
course, this would have also freed OEM's to bundle whatever
software they want with Windows, instead of what MS tells
them to offer as bundling options).




From carl at carltm.com  Thu Dec 20 09:15:56 2007
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 09:15:56 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] It happened...
Message-ID: <3087.216.144.215.245.1198160156.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

I thought I would be at the Canton Public Library for a long
time...perhaps until retirement.  However I chatted with a
recruiter and the next thing I know I've accepted a new position.
I mention this for two reasons.

First, please update your contact lists.  I've sent a lot of
email from the millerc at cantonpl.org address, and it will be
going away shortly.  The carl at carltm.com address is good.

Second, what advice do you have for a cell phone that can
be used for Internet access?  I remember someone mentioning
a certain model of phone that you can buy a USB cable for
and connect without an extra fee.  I don't mind paying extra
for a phone or for service if I can surf at no extra charge.

c




From radkins at impelind.com  Thu Dec 20 12:18:28 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 12:18:28 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] It happened...
In-Reply-To: <3087.216.144.215.245.1198160156.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <20071220172608.6A7831412E@impelind.com>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Carl T. Miller
> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 9:16 AM
> To: undisclosed-recipients:
> Subject: [mdlug] It happened...
> 
> I thought I would be at the Canton Public Library for a long 
> time...perhaps until retirement.  However I chatted with a 
> recruiter and the next thing I know I've accepted a new position.
> I mention this for two reasons.
> 
> First, please update your contact lists.  I've sent a lot of 
> email from the millerc at cantonpl.org address, and it will be 
> going away shortly.  The carl at carltm.com address is good.
> 
> Second, what advice do you have for a cell phone that can be 
> used for Internet access?  I remember someone mentioning a 
> certain model of phone that you can buy a USB cable for and 
> connect without an extra fee.  I don't mind paying extra for 
> a phone or for service if I can surf at no extra charge.
> 
> c

	AT&T has three phone models available with WiFi Internet Access.

	The "Tilt", the 8620 and the iPhone.

	If you plan on using WiFi to access the net, you could always just
keep your current phone and contract and then pick up a less pricey iPod
"Touch", which has WiFi support built in and is otherwise identical to the
iPhone, minus the whole "phone" element.

	We use the "Tilt" and it's an okay unit. It does run Windows Mobile
6, which I am finding to be rather lame, even though it is usable.

	-Rob



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Thu Dec 20 12:50:47 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 12:50:47 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] It happened...
In-Reply-To: <3087.216.144.215.245.1198160156.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBAD44@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Carl T. Miller

> Second, what advice do you have for a cell phone that can
> be used for Internet access?  I remember someone mentioning
> a certain model of phone that you can buy a USB cable for
> and connect without an extra fee.  I don't mind paying extra
> for a phone or for service if I can surf at no extra charge.

 Well, it depends. I assume you mean that the cell provider would be the ISP,
right? You'd be downloading data over the cell signal?

 Different companies have different data plans, and different phones have
different speeds they can download at. None of them can match cable or
fast DSL, but decent speeds (much better than dialup) are possible. They
can cost, though.

 Now, apparently you also want to be able to hook up a laptop to the phone
and essentially use the phone as a 'modem' for the laptop? This can be done,
and there are several phones that do so, though I don't have experience with
that.

 Palm handhelds work with Linux nicely, the support is quite mature. I don't
use my Treo 650 with Windows at all. But Verizon, my carrier, disables "DUN"
(Dial Up Networking) on its phones, and their data plans are pricey, so I
don't do that. (I actually do the reverse, and my Linux box lets my Treo hook
up via Bluetooth and get on the net when I'm at home.) There are hacks to enable
DUN, and other carriers don't disable that (I think Sprint and AT&T?)

 Maybe that'll be of some use...

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                                 (313) 227-2317

 "I do not contribute anything material to the competitive landscape. I am
  there to give players of actual merit a break between epic struggles."
                                - Tycho
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From carl at carltm.com  Thu Dec 20 13:22:49 2007
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 13:22:49 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] It happened...
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBAD44@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.cor
	p>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBAD44@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <24210.216.144.215.245.1198174969.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>  Well, it depends. I assume you mean that the cell provider would be the
> ISP, right? You'd be downloading data over the cell signal?

Yes, I already have WiFi on the laptop.  The cell provider would
be the backup ISP of last resort.

>  Now, apparently you also want to be able to hook up a laptop to the phone
> and essentially use the phone as a 'modem' for the laptop? This can be
> done, and there are several phones that do so, though I don't have
> experience with that.

Well, I guess you could call the phone a modem, although I wouldn't
want to call an ISP.  I'd want to use the cell phone's Internet
connection on my laptop.

>  Palm handhelds work with Linux nicely, the support is quite mature.

Do you know if they will connect a laptop to the Internet using a
cable?

I'm willing to do some research...I'm just hoping someone can
give me a head start in the right direction!

c




From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Thu Dec 20 13:23:35 2007
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 13:23:35 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] It happened...
In-Reply-To: <3087.216.144.215.245.1198160156.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <C3901D57.52B67%GregWojtak@quickenloans.com>

I've had good luck with my Blackberry.  I can browse, do all PDA functions
and ssh into servers.  iPhone is a suitable replacement, too.


On 12/20/07 9:15 AM, "Carl T. Miller" <carl at carltm.com> wrote:

> I thought I would be at the Canton Public Library for a long
> time...perhaps until retirement.  However I chatted with a
> recruiter and the next thing I know I've accepted a new position.
> I mention this for two reasons.
> 
> First, please update your contact lists.  I've sent a lot of
> email from the millerc at cantonpl.org address, and it will be
> going away shortly.  The carl at carltm.com address is good.
> 
> Second, what advice do you have for a cell phone that can
> be used for Internet access?  I remember someone mentioning
> a certain model of phone that you can buy a USB cable for
> and connect without an extra fee.  I don't mind paying extra
> for a phone or for service if I can surf at no extra charge.
> 
> c
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Thu Dec 20 13:55:17 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 13:55:17 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] It happened...
In-Reply-To: <24210.216.144.215.245.1198174969.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBAD46@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Carl T. Miller

> Do you know if they will connect a laptop to the Internet using a
> cable?

 Yup, or Bluetooth (though that's slower).

http://www.newt.com/debian/treo650.html
http://www.wayga.org/blog/2006/10/03/getting-to-the-internet-via-treo-700p-on-linux/

 ...among others. There are also payware programs that emulate USB modems and
similar things, too.

 I imagine Windows Mobile phones can do that, too. I dunno about Blackberry
or Symbian phones, but I wouldn't be surprised. You can also get PCMCIA cards
that let a laptop connect directly to the cell network... though I don't know
how many of those are supported by Linux.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                            (313) 227-2317

 "They say evil happens when good men do nothing. Well, the Democrats
 prove it also happens when mediocre people do nothing." - Bill Maher
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Thu Dec 20 16:01:06 2007
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:01:06 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] It happened...
References: <3087.216.144.215.245.1198160156.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <006701c8434b$705de8f0$6401a8c0@AMD2000>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Carl T. Miller" <carl at carltm.com>
To: <undisclosed-recipients:>
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 9:15 AM
Subject: [mdlug] It happened...


> However I chatted with a recruiter and the next thing I know
> I've accepted a new position.

That's why it's a good idea to NOT talk to recruiters!  ;-)

-Mike


From jcbender at bendorius.com  Thu Dec 20 17:26:13 2007
From: jcbender at bendorius.com (Joseph C. Bender)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:26:13 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] It happened...
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBAD46@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBAD46@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <476AEC05.3000400@bendorius.com>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>> From: Carl T. Miller
> 
>  I imagine Windows Mobile phones can do that, too. I dunno about Blackberry
> or Symbian phones, but I wouldn't be surprised. 
 >
	Yes to both the Symbian and Blackberry devices, though almost all of 
those won't attempt a data call without the provider telling the phone 
they're allowed to be a tethering device (at least on CDMA)

	Of all of these, if you can get something on a CDMA carriers, from a 
speed and latency perspective, it's worth it.  I'd stay away from 
Verizon, as they have been enforcing major caps on how many bits you 
move on their network (which is a rant for another time).

EDGE data service on a GSM carrier (T-mobile, AT&T) is okay, but not 
terribly fast or with decent latency.  If you're in a contract with 
either of those, it does work for casual use.

 > You can also get PCMCIA cards
 > that let a laptop connect directly to the cell network... though
 > I don't know how many of those are supported by Linux.
 >
	If it's a Cardbus EVDO card or USB widget, almost all of the time 
they're using some implementation of a Qualcomm chipset.  The Cardbus 
cards are actually Cardbus-USB bridges that just implement another USB 
controller so the internal USB interface on the card has something to 
connect back to the host with.  All of those devices enumerate in Linux 
such that anything with hotplug running (which most recent distros do 
out of the box, unless it's particularly lame) will detect and load the 
cdc_acm kernel module, with the device showing up as /dev/ttyACM0. 
Phones will either show up as ttyACM or ttyUSB, depending on how the 
phone presents itself on the USB.

	That being said, there's performance problems using the cdc_acm module 
with the EVDO cards, it's kinda inefficient with the speeds they 
actually get (generally higher than cdc_acm was expecting).  That has 
improved in recent kernel releases.  There's a workaround where one can 
either change what hotplug loads, or manually unload cdc_acm and load 
the usbserial with some custom options.

-- 
Joseph Bender
Bendorius Consulting
P: 248-434-5580
F: 248-434-5581
jcbender at bendorius com


From lugnuts at doehler.us  Fri Dec 21 02:47:17 2007
From: lugnuts at doehler.us (Joe Doehler)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 02:47:17 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] It happened...
In-Reply-To: <3087.216.144.215.245.1198160156.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
References: <3087.216.144.215.245.1198160156.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <E1J5cVD-0003Q7-00@doehler.us>

At 09:15 AM 12/20/2007, Carl wrote:
...
 >Second, what advice do you have for a cell phone that can
 >be used for Internet access?  I remember someone mentioning
 >a certain model of phone that you can buy a USB cable for
 >and connect without an extra fee.  I don't mind paying extra
 >for a phone or for service if I can surf at no extra charge.

I have experience using a Siemens S46 and a Motorola V3 tethered to a 
laptop via USB. These are both GSM phones that act as digital modems. 
The first thing I found out is that my carrier blocked DUN: I can't 
dial up to an independent ISP. I believe that this is universal; if 
someone has a different experience, please share it with us.

I must use my carrier as ISP, and therefore had to buy an Internet 
plan add-on. The plans vary; some plans are unlimited, some plans 
charge you by the byte. Some plans charge different rates depending 
on whether you access the Internet from the phone itself as a 
stand-alone, or use the phone in a tethered mode. Some plans restrict 
what web sites you can access, some are wide open. For some plans, 
you must agree to have your phone number captured by the web sites 
you visit (meaning you should expect junk delivered to your phone 
later..) So read the agreements carefully.

Setting up these phones as digital modems was a nightmare. The key is 
in setting the proper modem init string. Customer support was of no 
help, and the provider's web site did not have it anywhere. Another 
aggravation is that the utilities provided by Motorola reset the init 
string in the laptop's configuration files to NULL.

Both of my phones use GPRS for data transfer. Technically, I should 
be able to get ~180Kb/s on good days, when the bandwidth is not 
shared with other users. The most I have ever seen with my V3 is a 
tad over 30Kb/s (about the speed of a 28.8 analog modem;) with the 
S46, about half that. SSH and SCP connections routinely fail after 
about 100KBytes of transfer, but they are getting more reliable with time.

EDGE over GSM is supposed to be faster, but the phone selection 
narrows. I am not sure how much of a speed advantage EDGE has over 
GPRS in real life: I am not getting the full promise of GPRS, so why 
would I with EDGE?

I would not recommend this setup for primary Internet access - only 
for "plan B" if you need it :-)

Joe.



From jcbender at bendorius.com  Fri Dec 21 09:21:12 2007
From: jcbender at bendorius.com (Joseph C. Bender)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:21:12 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] It happened...
In-Reply-To: <E1J5cVD-0003Q7-00@doehler.us>
References: <3087.216.144.215.245.1198160156.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
	<E1J5cVD-0003Q7-00@doehler.us>
Message-ID: <476BCBD8.6040609@bendorius.com>

Joe Doehler wrote:
> ...
> I have experience using a Siemens S46 and a Motorola V3 tethered to a 
> laptop via USB. These are both GSM phones that act as digital modems. 
> The first thing I found out is that my carrier blocked DUN: I can't 
> dial up to an independent ISP. I believe that this is universal; if 
> someone has a different experience, please share it with us.
> 
	This is because dialing ATDT*99 (or #777 on CMDA) creates a virtual PPP 
connection via termination cards at the MTSO.  Dialing an ISP as a modem 
actually requires that the phone support phone-as-modem mode and that 
the carrier have *other* cards at the MTSO that are MODEM banks that 
actually place the modem call.  A lot of carriers do not implement this, 
it's terribly expensive to them for not much gain.  T-Mobile is the only 
GSM carrier that I'm aware of that does this, and I last used it back in 
2005 or so.  They implemented it largely because they do have a plan 
bolt-on that allows for fax send/receive, and that requires the same 
modem cards at the MTSO.  You're going to get no more than 9600 bps, 
though.  That's the most bandwidth that you can stuff onto a GSM call. 
Oh, and it counts as a regular phonecall, so it'll be burning minutes 
off your plan, too.

(MTSO being mobile telephone switching office, the local cell-switch 
where your calls actually hit the telephone network and terminate from)

> Setting up these phones as digital modems was a nightmare. The key is 
> in setting the proper modem init string. Customer support was of no 
> help, and the provider's web site did not have it anywhere. Another 
> aggravation is that the utilities provided by Motorola reset the init 
> string in the laptop's configuration files to NULL.
> 
	The big issue is the APN string.  This is a AT command (AT+CGDCONT=, 
IIRC) that sets the mobile access point address so your phone knows 
where to throw a GPRS/EDGE connection at.  Googling for "<carrier name> 
APN string" usually provides the required information.

> Both of my phones use GPRS for data transfer. Technically, I should 
> be able to get ~180Kb/s on good days, when the bandwidth is not 
> shared with other users. The most I have ever seen with my V3 is a 
> tad over 30Kb/s (about the speed of a 28.8 analog modem;) with the 
> S46, about half that. SSH and SCP connections routinely fail after 
> about 100KBytes of transfer, but they are getting more reliable with time.
> 
	It depends on how busy the local tower is, as GPRS shares timeslots 
with the voice calls.

	If you're supposed to be getting 180Kb/s, chances are you have a EDGE 
phone anyway.  28.8 tends to suggest that you've either got a really old 
GPRS phone or that the local tower is horrible.  If the phones don't 
support GPRS class 10 or better, you're not going to see the speeds.

	Out of curiosity, what carrier and what area are you trying this in?

> EDGE over GSM is supposed to be faster, but the phone selection 
> narrows. I am not sure how much of a speed advantage EDGE has over 
> GPRS in real life: I am not getting the full promise of GPRS, so why 
> would I with EDGE?
> 
	Latency goes down drastically on EDGE, and I have seen decent 
performance with it.  The modulations/encodations are vastly different, 
you get more bits per GSM timeslot with EDGE.  The tower can also hand 
you more timeslots, or configure them better, theoretically as well.  It 
does largely depend on the phone, yes.  Phonescoop.com will give the 
specs of a given phone.

> I would not recommend this setup for primary Internet access - only 
> for "plan B" if you need it :-)
> 
	Indeed.  If you want cellular wireless as primary, get EVDO on a CDMA 
carrier.  Until the GSM carriers get UMTS or HSDPA rolled out, it's 
going to be slow.  Why Apple made the utterly, utterly stupid decision 
not to make a CDMA version of the iPhone, I do not know).



-- 
Joseph Bender
Bendorius Consulting
P: 248-434-5580
F: 248-434-5581
jcbender at bendorius com


From radkins at impelind.com  Fri Dec 21 10:44:00 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 10:44:00 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel Testing Methods
Message-ID: <20071221155142.68BC01412E@impelind.com>

	Hey,

	I would like to check/confirm that the kernels I am building are
"better" than the default vendor supplied kernels. I've done some Googling
and seen little more than restuls of tests with nothing particularly
concrete stating "THIS IS WHAT TO DO FOR TESTING!!!"

	Anyone have any pointers?

	Thanks.

	-Rob



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Fri Dec 21 11:38:46 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:38:46 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel Testing Methods
In-Reply-To: <20071221155142.68BC01412E@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBAD4A@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Robert Adkins

> 	I would like to check/confirm that the kernels I am building are
> "better" than the default vendor supplied kernels.

 "Better" depends almost entirely on what you are doing. Are you compiling? Serving
files? Doing numerical computation? Surfing the web? Playing video? Some kernel
changes will make one of those better and reduce performance in another area. That's
one reason why there's no 'concrete' advice on what tests to run.

 If you're worried about disk I/O, try bonnie. A kernel compile can itself be a
good stress test. Beyond that... I dunno. What do you care about?

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                     (313) 227-2317

 "Personally, I've been hearing all my life about the Serious
 Philosophical Issues posed by life extension, and my attitude
 has always been that I'm willing to grapple with those issues
 for as many centuries as it takes." - Patrick Nielsen Hayden
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Fri Dec 21 21:45:49 2007
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 21:45:49 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] It happened...
In-Reply-To: <3087.216.144.215.245.1198160156.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
References: <3087.216.144.215.245.1198160156.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <20071221214549.42f62aee@Nokia-N800-26>

On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 09:15:56 -0500 (EST)
"Carl T. Miller" <carl at carltm.com> wrote:

> I thought I would be at the Canton Public Library for a long
> time...perhaps until retirement.  However I chatted with a
> recruiter and the next thing I know I've accepted a new position.
> I mention this for two reasons.
> 
> First, please update your contact lists.  I've sent a lot of
> email from the millerc at cantonpl.org address, and it will be
> going away shortly.  The carl at carltm.com address is good.


Congratulations!


> 
> Second, what advice do you have for a cell phone that can
> be used for Internet access?  I remember someone mentioning
> a certain model of phone that you can buy a USB cable for
> and connect without an extra fee.  I don't mind paying extra
> for a phone or for service if I can surf at no extra charge.

	Up until today I used a Motorola E815 on Verizon's network to
occasionally connect to the internet. I would connect to the phone via
bluetooth and used it to email, no surfing. It has some sort of
Motorola data port. Since Verizon is militant about not allowing
bluetooth data transfer I used a hack I found on Howard Forums to
enable DUN. I know they guard their data network (EVDO?) just as
seriously. If you're going to use it a lot I would suggest a data plan.
I just replaced the E815 w/a Nokia 6315i. I don't know much other than
it supports bluetooth data transfer and has some sort of Nokia data
port. I turned off a Sprint/Nextel phone and replaced it with a
Motorola W385 on Verizon. This one has a mini usb port and supports
bluetooth DUN, ftp and opp. I cancelled Sprint because their reception
sucks and their customer service is worse. To bad, they have Wimax.
	I hope this helps.
Best Regards,

-- 
Peter The Plumber sm on the Road
State Licensed Plumber


From gib at juno.com  Fri Dec 21 22:25:02 2007
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 03:25:02 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  It happened... - WiMax
Message-ID: <20071221.222502.24759.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>


You mentioned WiMax.  What have you heard?

-- Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:
On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 09:15:56 -0500 (EST)
"Carl T. Miller" <carl at carltm.com> wrote:

> I thought I would be at the Canton Public Library for a long
> time...perhaps until retirement.  However I chatted with a
> recruiter and the next thing I know I've accepted a new position.
> I mention this for two reasons.
> 
> First, please update your contact lists.  I've sent a lot of
> email from the millerc at cantonpl.org address, and it will be
> going away shortly.  The carl at carltm.com address is good.


Congratulations!


> 
> Second, what advice do you have for a cell phone that can
> be used for Internet access?  I remember someone mentioning
> a certain model of phone that you can buy a USB cable for
> and connect without an extra fee.  I don't mind paying extra
> for a phone or for service if I can surf at no extra charge.

	Up until today I used a Motorola E815 on Verizon's network to
occasionally connect to the internet. I would connect to the phone via
bluetooth and used it to email, no surfing. It has some sort of
Motorola data port. Since Verizon is militant about not allowing
bluetooth data transfer I used a hack I found on Howard Forums to
enable DUN. I know they guard their data network (EVDO?) just as
seriously. If you're going to use it a lot I would suggest a data plan.
I just replaced the E815 w/a Nokia 6315i. I don't know much other than
it supports bluetooth data transfer and has some sort of Nokia data
port. I turned off a Sprint/Nextel phone and replaced it with a
Motorola W385 on Verizon. This one has a mini usb port and supports
bluetooth DUN, ftp and opp. I cancelled Sprint because their reception
sucks and their customer service is worse. To bad, they have Wimax.
	I hope this helps.
Best Regards,

-- 
Peter The Plumber sm on the Road
State Licensed Plumber
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

_____________________________________________________________
Planning for retirement? Click for free information on 401(k) plans.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iiejsYRiPGBd2d3bUeB8B5mdbjOBrSS0jTXWns7ZIs3cx5FJK/




From peter at petertheplumber.net  Sat Dec 22 11:09:02 2007
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 11:09:02 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] It happened... - WiMax
In-Reply-To: <20071221.222502.24759.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20071221.222502.24759.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <20071222110902.2231f60e@Nokia-N800-26>

On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 03:25:02 GMT
"gib at juno.com" <gib at juno.com> wrote:

> 
> You mentioned WiMax.  What have you heard?
> 

Hi Everyone,
	Sprint has Wimax scheduled for launch spring 2008
<http://www.xohm.com/>. They seem to be the first. To bad they have
Nextel dragging them down, I had one of those too. Really good for a
short time then crash and burn. Sprint seems to have inherited that and
absolutely *horrible* customer service from them. So bad I paid my ETF
to get rid of them. I'm going back to a pager for emergency contact,
backup for cell svc and use in places I'm not supposed to use cellular.
	From what I hear Wimax is supposed to render wifi, wireless
broadband cards obsolete. We'll see, I'm somewhat cynical. Wifi is
ubiquitous and free although you have to be stationary, I'm sure
Wimax will be a subscription service but it is much more mobile.
Since I'm a guy, I can't do more than one thing at a time w/o
forgetting to breath. So driving and surfing are out for me. I'm sure
it will have lots of uses, didn't someone bring a Wimax device to a
meeting? You can find lots more here
<http://www.altavista.com/web/results?itag=ody&q=Wimax&kgs=0&kls=0>. 

Best Regards,
-- 
Peter The Plumber sm on the Road
State Licensed Plumber


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Fri Dec 21 11:13:09 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:13:09 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel Testing Methods
In-Reply-To: <20071221155142.68BC01412E@impelind.com>
References: <20071221155142.68BC01412E@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <476BE615.5010609@hotpop.com>

Robert Adkins wrote:
> 	Hey,
> 
> 	I would like to check/confirm that the kernels I am building are
> "better" than the default vendor supplied kernels. I've done some Googling
> and seen little more than restuls of tests with nothing particularly
> concrete stating "THIS IS WHAT TO DO FOR TESTING!!!"
> 
> 	Anyone have any pointers?

Place kernels in pan with cooking oil and apply heat.
See how long it take for them to pop.




From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sat Dec 22 14:44:27 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 14:44:27 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Looking for info regarding Linux server FSH standard
	practices when sharing files
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712221144s45fb8768u88648a8a35db5e37@mail.gmail.com>

I'm in the middle of setting up a new server and I need to create
network shares of several large archives of add-ons and updates to
various OSes and applications.  What is the standard practice for the
location of files that will be accessed by many users on a network but
not belonging to a specific user?  Something like "/home/public" or
should it be somewhere in /var?


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Sat Dec 22 15:00:27 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 15:00:27 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Looking for info regarding Linux server FSH standard
 practices when sharing files
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90712221144s45fb8768u88648a8a35db5e37@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e90712221144s45fb8768u88648a8a35db5e37@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <476D6CDB.7010606@hotpop.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> I'm in the middle of setting up a new server and I need to create
> network shares of several large archives of add-ons and updates to
> various OSes and applications.  What is the standard practice for the
> location of files that will be accessed by many users on a network but
> not belonging to a specific user?  Something like "/home/public" or
> should it be somewhere in /var?

remember...the computer and the environment of it's data
is all a MAN-MADE UNIVERSE...therefore...DO WHAT MAKES SENSE.



/data
/local/public

/home is for home directories (although I have put other
things in the /home filesystem, I would never advocate
that a path beginning with /home be used for public
access...if you do that, make a symbolic link, like this:

ln -s /home/public /public

So that it appears under /public.)

/local/public would be a good choice.

Publicizing a path name that begins with /home/ for
public data violates the "do what makes sense" rule.

what DOES make sense is a path name that implies
what it's used for.

[Use the magic of symbolic links to make the
data PHYSICALLY reside on whatever file system
makes the most sense for you... /local and /home
are good for being left alone when you decide
to install a new version of the OS (i.e. clean
install instead of "upgrade")




From relson at osagesoftware.com  Sat Dec 22 15:34:58 2007
From: relson at osagesoftware.com (David Relson)
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 15:34:58 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] It happened...
In-Reply-To: <3087.216.144.215.245.1198160156.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
References: <3087.216.144.215.245.1198160156.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <20071222153458.28904e75@osage.osagesoftware.com>

On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 09:15:56 -0500 (EST)
Carl T. Miller wrote:

> I thought I would be at the Canton Public Library for a long
> time...perhaps until retirement.  However I chatted with a
> recruiter and the next thing I know I've accepted a new position.
> I mention this for two reasons.
> 
> First, please update your contact lists.  I've sent a lot of
> email from the millerc at cantonpl.org address, and it will be
> going away shortly.  The carl at carltm.com address is good.
> 
> Second, what advice do you have for a cell phone that can
> be used for Internet access?  I remember someone mentioning
> a certain model of phone that you can buy a USB cable for
> and connect without an extra fee.  I don't mind paying extra
> for a phone or for service if I can surf at no extra charge.
> 
> c

Carl, 

You've been a sys admin at Canton PL as long as I've known you.
What's your encore?  Another sys admin position?  Another library?
Industry?

Enquiring minds want to know :->

David


From rstaff at sprynet.com  Sun Dec 23 15:30:56 2007
From: rstaff at sprynet.com (Richard Staff)
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 15:30:56 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Soviet Microsoft
In-Reply-To: <47669630.2070200@hotpop.com>
References: <b67fb0380712161128x667335a1vdae80a825526d205@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712161438290.28210@banana.sluggo.net>	<4765DD98.3060905@comcast.net>
	<47669630.2070200@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <476EC580.8000302@sprynet.com>

Aaron nailed it.  Monopolies are anti- free market entities.
Breaking up the Microsloth into OS and application units would have 
brought freedom to the software market.  However the Cheney 
Administration made sure that this did not happen.
Oh well.
Happy Holidays anyways (a blessed Christmas/Kwanzaa/Hanukkah),
Rick
P.S. Please forgive lateness of response, I am only checking my emails 
weekly now.
=================[]
Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> Garry Stahl wrote:
>   
>> Michael Corral wrote:
>>     
>>> 2007-12-16, Monsieur Michael Rudas a ecrit:
>>>   
>>>       
>>>> "Soviet Microsoft: How Resistance to Free Markets and Open Ideas Will
>>>> Unravel the Software Superpower"
>>>> <http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2007/12/13/soviet-microsoft-how-resistance-to-free-markets-and-open-ideas-will-the-unravel-the-software-superpower>
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>> What a crock of feces that article is.
>>>
>>> Most of the "free market" crowd in fact loves Microsoft.
>>>       
>> Excelt the so called free market isn't.  Buch and cronies are
>> Merchantilists.  They bear the same relation to free market capitalists
>> as "soviet socialism" did to communism.
>>
>> So there are no free market people in power right now. 
>>
>>     
>
>
> As I recall, the judge on the last big MS lawsuit (Pennfield?)
> the one who was kicked off for making factually correct
> statements about Gates and other senior executives committing
> perjury in his courtroom (which were viewed as "inappropriate
> for a judge") was a Reagan appointee.  He's the one who ruled
> that MS was absolutely without a doubt guilty (far past the
> standard of "beyond reasonable doubt") -- but before the
> case got to the remedy phase, he was replaced by Kotalar-Kelly,
> who wimped out, and allowed MS to keep it's current configuration
> which only ENCOURAGES more of the same.
>
> (Pennfield was considering splitting up MS into two companies.
> Most likely an OS company, and an Apps company, most of the
> motivation for continued monopolistic behavior would have
> been removed.  The Apps people would have no reason to
> no port apps.  And the OS people would have nor reason to
> provide preferential treatment (disclosure of otherwise
> unknown system calls, etc) to the MS-Apps people.  And of
> course, this would have also freed OEM's to bundle whatever
> software they want with Windows, instead of what MS tells
> them to offer as bundling options).
>
>   


From otakurider at gmail.com  Mon Dec 24 11:30:40 2007
From: otakurider at gmail.com (-)
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 11:30:40 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Stock tracking program
Message-ID: <cd5131a50712240830h3476ae11h9d43a8f894962bc7@mail.gmail.com>

Anyone have any programs they have seen to track stock investments.  I have
tried GnuCash but it seems a bit more work that I have been looking for and
importing my files from my broker accounts seem to have some problems.
Currently I use Microsoft Money but want to go to open source.


Thanks


Pat
VP MDLUG


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Mon Dec 24 13:31:07 2007
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 13:31:07 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] openSUSE 10.3 Flash and Install Oddities
Message-ID: <1198521067.3746.58.camel@plumber.site>

Happy Holidays Everyone,
	A few notes on the install of openSUSE 10.3 on two laptops as I
struggle a little. I've found that the install with online repositories
enabled requires a root partition of over 1Gig. At the point in the
install where the update occurs is where root becomes overloaded. I
don't know if that's my problem trying to get the right screen
resolution on a 1440x900 17" display, but we'll see. This comes out of
me not using the install recommended three partitions. The reason I
didn't use that, is with that scheme on an IBM T22 (with a small(ish)
hard drive) flash only will play for the first few seconds. Since it
plays fine on my T30, and the only difference besides hardware was the
partitioning; I tried my partitioning scheme. That is roughly as follows
with swap being twice the amount of ram. That comes from hearing suspend
may need that to work? Comments??

plumber:~ # df -h
Filesystem            Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/sda1            1012M  211M  750M  22% /
udev                  506M   88K  506M   1% /dev
/dev/sda2              54M   27M   24M  53% /boot
/dev/sda9              26G   14G   11G  58% /home
/dev/sda8             2.5G  137M  2.3G   6% /opt
/dev/sda7            1012M  155M  806M  17% /tmp
/dev/sda3             5.0G  3.5G  1.3G  75% /usr
/dev/sda6            1012M  423M  538M  45% /var
   
Besides the install complaining of running out of space at the online
update stage there seemed to be no ill effects for the T22. df -h
reports about 1/3 of the 1Gig root partition is used once the install
was done on the T22. And flash works!?! I'm having a little harder time
with a Toshiba P205-S6347, I can't seem to get part of the display in
the right resolution. The desktop is correct but the Gnome panels
display in the middle of the screen. Also I'm using the 64bit version of
openSUSE 10.3. Interestingly enough the screen displays correctly using
the installers suggested partitioning but flash doesn't work? I hope
this helps someone, even idiots as I can stumble across a solution from
time to time!

Best Regards,
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Dec 24 14:02:59 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 14:02:59 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Stock tracking program
In-Reply-To: <cd5131a50712240830h3476ae11h9d43a8f894962bc7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cd5131a50712240830h3476ae11h9d43a8f894962bc7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712241102k76900b4byc43ce8534048202@mail.gmail.com>

On Dec 24, 2007 11:30 AM, - <otakurider at gmail.com> wrote:
> Anyone have any programs they have seen to track stock investments.  I have
> tried GnuCash but it seems a bit more work that I have been looking for and
> importing my files from my broker accounts seem to have some problems.
> Currently I use Microsoft Money but want to go to open source.

I haven't used any but look here for leads:

http://www.linuxlinks.com/Software/Financial/Stockmarket/
http://www.linux.org/apps/all/Office/Financial-1.html?sort=author
http://freshmeat.net/articles/view/269/

Once you've compared them all you can present your findings at the
next meeting. :)


From mdlug at sbcglobal.net  Mon Dec 24 16:42:36 2007
From: mdlug at sbcglobal.net (Dean Durant)
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 13:42:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] video card recommendation?
Message-ID: <17092.46758.qm@web81802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello, I am looking for a video card for Mepis 6.5.    What I have now is built in video on the mobo on a cheap box I bought off the net.   The video has some issues, like lines across the page in certain apps.   So I'm thinking it's the hardware, not Mepis.   I don't know what kind of slots the mobo has.    Is there a good brand of card that is designed to work with Linux?    Are there video card vendors that are sympathetic to linux?    Thanks, Dean


From wolfger at gmail.com  Mon Dec 24 17:56:53 2007
From: wolfger at gmail.com (Wolfger)
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 17:56:53 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] video card recommendation?
In-Reply-To: <17092.46758.qm@web81802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <17092.46758.qm@web81802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3b00b3330712241456g1dc28765i38dc63e00eae02cb@mail.gmail.com>

I love Nvidia for Linux. I'm using a GeForce 7100 GS (or is it GX?).
Nivida without 3D acceleration works fantastic with Free drivers, and
Nvidia writes proprietary drivers for Linux that get the 3D working.

On Dec 24, 2007 4:42 PM, Dean Durant <mdlug at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Hello, I am looking for a video card for Mepis 6.5.    What I have now is built in video on the mobo on a cheap box I bought off the net.   The video has some issues, like lines across the page in certain apps.   So I'm thinking it's the hardware, not Mepis.   I don't know what kind of slots the mobo has.    Is there a good brand of card that is designed to work with Linux?    Are there video card vendors that are sympathetic to linux?    Thanks, Dean
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>



-- 
Wolfger
http://wolfger.wordpress.com/
AOL IM: wolf4coyot
Yahoo!Messenger: wolfgersilberbaer


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Dec 24 18:54:36 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 18:54:36 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] video card recommendation?
In-Reply-To: <17092.46758.qm@web81802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <17092.46758.qm@web81802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712241554q785c2234m93b6bc37ce3838e0@mail.gmail.com>

On Dec 24, 2007 4:42 PM, Dean Durant <mdlug at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Hello, I am looking for a video card for Mepis 6.5.    What I have now is built in video on the mobo on a cheap box I bought off the net.   The video has some issues, like lines across the page in certain apps.   So I'm thinking it's the hardware, not Mepis.   I don't know what kind of slots the mobo has.    Is there a good brand of card that is designed to work with Linux?    Are there video card vendors that are sympathetic to linux?    Thanks, Dean

What type of interface - ISA, EISA, MCA, PCI, AGP, PCIe?


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Tue Dec 25 13:29:29 2007
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 13:29:29 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Earthlink Feather Not WiMax?
Message-ID: <20071225132929.5ae5823e@Nokia-N800-26>

	Something some may be interested in even though it's not yet
offered in our area. <http://www.earthlink.net/wifi/> Earthlink Feather
was offered free for a time on the Nokia N800.
<https://home.feather.net/nokia/n800/main> I know nothing more about
it, but I would be curious to know plans for rollout and what
technology they're using.

Best Regards,

-- 
Peter The Plumber sm on the Road
State Licensed Plumber


From z_mikowski at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 25 21:23:36 2007
From: z_mikowski at yahoo.com (Michael Mikowski)
Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 18:23:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] video card recommendation?
Message-ID: <69459.43651.qm@web52607.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi Dean:

I'm with Wolfger.  Do yourself a *huge* favor and buy NVidia; at this point, the tools and performance are vastly superior to ATI, although it appears that may change in the next few months.  nvidia-settings is excellent for dynamically adjusting your X server as you add or detach displays.

The 7XXX series is very well supported (e.g. 7800 GTX), even in SLI (yes, I had an SLI Linux rig once; it was great for UT2003, but overkill for my purposes).  The 8XXX series at last report did not significantly exceed the 7XXX cards in performance.  So you might skip the 8XXX series unless you a) really want cutting edge performance and are willing to wait for the drivers on Linux; or b) find a 8XXX series card for a comparable price (e.g. the 8300 GS).

$0.02

Cheers, Mike

p.s. Just bought me mum a Ubuntu Linux Dell (Inspiron 530) for x-mas.   Promptly dumped Ubuntu 7.04 for Kubuntu 7.10.  It was great to have all hardware pre-certified for Linux, and it included Nvidia 8300GS which performs great with most games and Google Earth.  The base box was $499 with 1G memory and 250GB HD; a 22" samsung widescreen added around $115.  Quite a bargain -- 2 years ago, the screen *alone* would have cost more than the entire system.  Highly recommended.

----- Original Message ----
From: Wolfger <wolfger at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 5:56:53 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] video card recommendation?


I love Nvidia for Linux. I'm using a GeForce 7100 GS (or is it GX?).
Nivida without 3D acceleration works fantastic with Free drivers, and
Nvidia writes proprietary drivers for Linux that get the 3D working.

On Dec 24, 2007 4:42 PM, Dean Durant <mdlug at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Hello, I am looking for a video card for Mepis 6.5.    What I have
 now is built in video on the mobo on a cheap box I bought off the net.  
 The video has some issues, like lines across the page in certain apps.
   So I'm thinking it's the hardware, not Mepis.   I don't know what
 kind of slots the mobo has.    Is there a good brand of card that is
 designed to work with Linux?    Are there video card vendors that are
 sympathetic to linux?    Thanks, Dean
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>



-- 
Wolfger
http://wolfger.wordpress.com/
AOL IM: wolf4coyot
Yahoo!Messenger: wolfgersilberbaer
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug





From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Tue Dec 25 22:39:25 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 22:39:25 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] video card recommendation?
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90712241554q785c2234m93b6bc37ce3838e0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <17092.46758.qm@web81802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<b02c40e90712241554q785c2234m93b6bc37ce3838e0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712251939od1d9c9ar4592843610062a4c@mail.gmail.com>

On Dec 24, 2007 6:54 PM, Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com> wrote:
>I don't know what kind of slots the mobo has.    Is there a good
brand of card that is designed to work with Linux?    Are there video
card vendors that are sympathetic to linux?    Thanks, Dean
>
> What type of interface - ISA, EISA, MCA, PCI, AGP, PCIe?

Maybe that was a mildly stupid question.  I overlooked the unknown
slots issue.  But realistically, you need to identify the slots as it
greatly affects what is available.  Most systems are using PCIe.
There are some good cards for AGP but they are more expensive because
manufacturing volumes are dwindling.  If it only has PCI then throw it
out.  Higher-end PCI cards do exist but they are not worth it.  A new
MB with integrated video would be faster and cheaper than any modern
PCI card.


From micorral at comcast.net  Tue Dec 25 23:06:23 2007
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 23:06:23 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] video card recommendation?
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90712251939od1d9c9ar4592843610062a4c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <17092.46758.qm@web81802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<b02c40e90712241554q785c2234m93b6bc37ce3838e0@mail.gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90712251939od1d9c9ar4592843610062a4c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.1.00.0712252257350.7837@banana.sluggo.net>

2007-12-25, Monsieur Jeff Hanson a ecrit:
> On Dec 24, 2007 6:54 PM, Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I don't know what kind of slots the mobo has.    Is there a good
> brand of card that is designed to work with Linux?    Are there video
> card vendors that are sympathetic to linux?    Thanks, Dean
>>
>> What type of interface - ISA, EISA, MCA, PCI, AGP, PCIe?
>
> Maybe that was a mildly stupid question.

I was thinking more along the lines that you left out VLB. :)

As far as video card vendors that are sympathetic to Linux, I'd
say Intel. They've open-sourced the drivers for their video chipsets,
unlike Nvidia and ATI (although ATI has announced that they will
open-source the drivers for their newer cards).

If having open-source drivers doesn't matter, then toss a coin
between ATI and Nvidia. They both have proprietary drivers that
work with Linux, both have their detractors and fanboys. Getting
into an ATI vs Nvidia debate is like getting into KDE vs GNOME,
Emacs vs vi, etc. (i.e. Good vs Evil :).

Michael


From tesral at comcast.net  Tue Dec 25 23:26:31 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 23:26:31 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Modem question
Message-ID: <4771D7F7.5000609@comcast.net>

I have a friend on limited income, so a 70 buck modem is out of the
question.

However, I need a phone modem that will work with Open Suse 10.3.  Cheap
suggestions are welcome.  No, he doesn't have DSL or cable service.  I
would prefer that.  I haven't configured a modem since the 90s, and
never under Linux.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From carl at carltm.com  Wed Dec 26 00:20:51 2007
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 00:20:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Modem question
In-Reply-To: <4771D7F7.5000609@comcast.net>
References: <4771D7F7.5000609@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <2184.216.144.215.245.1198646451.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

Garry Stahl wrote:
> I have a friend on limited income, so a 70 buck modem is out of the
> question.
>
> However, I need a phone modem that will work with Open Suse 10.3.  Cheap
> suggestions are welcome.  No, he doesn't have DSL or cable service.  I
> would prefer that.  I haven't configured a modem since the 90s, and
> never under Linux.

A few years ago I found some inexpensive ones made by ActionTec that
worked well under Linux.  I recall I paid about $10 for either the
USB or PCI version.

If ActionTec isn't available any more, I'd suggest lookomg up the cheap
brands and do a Google search to find if anyone has made that particular
model work in Linux.

c




From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Dec 26 01:02:36 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 01:02:36 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Modem question
In-Reply-To: <4771D7F7.5000609@comcast.net>
References: <4771D7F7.5000609@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712252202p18a5ced3ga4334cec8d7bf419@mail.gmail.com>

On Dec 25, 2007 11:26 PM, Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:
> I have a friend on limited income, so a 70 buck modem is out of the
> question.
>
> However, I need a phone modem that will work with Open Suse 10.3.  Cheap
> suggestions are welcome.  No, he doesn't have DSL or cable service.  I
> would prefer that.  I haven't configured a modem since the 90s, and
> never under Linux.

I recently tried to get one of my dozen different softmodems to work
on Ubuntu Feisty reliably.  I failed.  Ubuntu will not include any
closed drivers so manual compilation was necessary (and difficult).
Maybe Suse is better.  There is a database link on the following page
which can tell you what is possible:
http://132.68.73.235/linmodems/index.html#linmodems

If you have a softmodem to test, run the scanmodem script that is
available at that site.  If you can't figure out the reports then send
it to their mailing list.  Subscription info is at
http://www.linmodems.org

External serial-port controller-based modems are more expensive but
any idiot can install one.


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Wed Dec 26 03:19:40 2007
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 03:19:40 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] video card recommendation?
In-Reply-To: <3b00b3330712241456g1dc28765i38dc63e00eae02cb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <17092.46758.qm@web81802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<3b00b3330712241456g1dc28765i38dc63e00eae02cb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380712260019s4744937ay6a031667320a777d@mail.gmail.com>

Wolfger wrote:
> Dean Durant wrote:
>> Hello, I am looking for a video card for Mepis 6.5.    What I have now
>> is built in video on the mobo on a cheap box I bought off the net.
>> The video has some issues, like lines across the page in certain apps.
>> I don't know what kind of slots the mobo has.
>> Is there a good brand of card that is designed to work with Linux?

> I love Nvidia for Linux. I'm using a GeForce 7100 GS (or is it GX?).
> Nivida without 3D acceleration works fantastic with Free drivers, and
> Nvidia writes proprietary drivers for Linux that get the 3D working.

I, too, much prefer nVidia over ATi for video cards -- both in general
and for Linux (I'm an nV user since the original 1997-vintage 4MB
Riva) -- but we need to know what kind of video slot you have
available.  Please provide the brand and model number of the mobo so
we can help you better.

As a long-time computer tech, I do have experience with both nV and
ATi -- not to mention that   I'm forced to use an ATi card in
Ariel/Loki (my 2nd system) due to nV driver issues in WinXP on its
mobo.

~~ Mikey


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Wed Dec 26 03:28:02 2007
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 03:28:02 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Modem question
In-Reply-To: <4771D7F7.5000609@comcast.net>
References: <4771D7F7.5000609@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380712260028y2004117ey7e63835ed681561@mail.gmail.com>

Garry Stahl wrote:
> I have a friend on limited income, so a 70 buck modem is out of the
> question.
> However, I need a phone modem that will work with Open Suse 10.3.  Cheap
> suggestions are welcome.

Look for a modem with an Intel chipset.  They are cheap, most under
$15, and they have Linux drivers available.  As far as support for the
cheap, ubiquitous WinModems, you can look at
<http://www.linmodems.org> for Linux driver info on some of the
commonly-available (but inferior) hardware.

You may also be able to find a used external modem for cheap.

~~ Mikey


From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Wed Dec 26 12:23:26 2007
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 12:23:26 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Modem question
References: <4771D7F7.5000609@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <001201c847e4$06934710$6401a8c0@AMD2000>

Do you need an ISA or PCI modem card?  I have a couple of old modem cards in 
my parts bin and would be happy to donate one.  Not a 100% sure they are 
Linux compatible, but I suspect they might be.

-Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Garry Stahl" <tesral at comcast.net>
To: "mdLUG Main" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 11:26 PM
Subject: [mdlug] Modem question


>I have a friend on limited income, so a 70 buck modem is out of the
> question.
>
> However, I need a phone modem that will work with Open Suse 10.3.  Cheap
> suggestions are welcome.  No, he doesn't have DSL or cable service.  I
> would prefer that.  I haven't configured a modem since the 90s, and
> never under Linux.
>
> -- 
> Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.
>
> Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
> Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
> The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.9/1197 - Release Date: 
> 12/25/2007 8:04 PM
>
> 



From muteid10t at gmail.com  Wed Dec 26 12:34:23 2007
From: muteid10t at gmail.com (Ron Blanchett)
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 12:34:23 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Modem question
In-Reply-To: <001201c847e4$06934710$6401a8c0@AMD2000>
References: <4771D7F7.5000609@comcast.net>
	<001201c847e4$06934710$6401a8c0@AMD2000>
Message-ID: <52995d720712260934g1467a2n9cd1a3c800902dbf@mail.gmail.com>

when in doubt turn to ebay, I just did a search for USRobotics 56k and
found several modems (not winmodems) for about $10 - $15.

If that is not an option I have several older USR modems at home (all
none winmodems).


On 12/26/07, Michael ORourke <mrorourke at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Do you need an ISA or PCI modem card?  I have a couple of old modem cards in
> my parts bin and would be happy to donate one.  Not a 100% sure they are
> Linux compatible, but I suspect they might be.
>
> -Mike
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Garry Stahl" <tesral at comcast.net>
> To: "mdLUG Main" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 11:26 PM
> Subject: [mdlug] Modem question
>
>
> >I have a friend on limited income, so a 70 buck modem is out of the
> > question.
> >
> > However, I need a phone modem that will work with Open Suse 10.3.  Cheap
> > suggestions are welcome.  No, he doesn't have DSL or cable service.  I
> > would prefer that.  I haven't configured a modem since the 90s, and
> > never under Linux.
> >
> > --
> > Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.
> >
> > Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
> > Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
> > The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > mdlug mailing list
> > mdlug at mdlug.org
> > http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.9/1197 - Release Date:
> > 12/25/2007 8:04 PM
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Wed Dec 26 14:51:18 2007
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 14:51:18 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Scripting - Newlines getting clobbered?
Message-ID: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE033ADA16@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

I am trying to read a multi-line file into a variable, and the lines are
getting concatenated together in one big line.  So a file that contains

line 1
line 2
line 3
line d
line 6

would look like line 1 line 2 line 3 line d line 6 when I do:

VAR=`cat data`
echo $VAR

Any ideas how to keep the newline inside of variables?

Thanks!

Greg 


From carl at carltm.com  Wed Dec 26 15:18:39 2007
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 15:18:39 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Scripting - Newlines getting clobbered?
In-Reply-To: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE033ADA16@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com
	>
References: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE033ADA16@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
Message-ID: <21645.216.144.215.245.1198700319.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

Wojtak, Greg wrote:
> I am trying to read a multi-line file into a variable, and the lines are
> getting concatenated together in one big line.  So a file that contains
>
> line 1
> line 2
> line 3
> line d
> line 6
>
> would look like line 1 line 2 line 3 line d line 6 when I do:
>
> VAR=`cat data`
> echo $VAR
>
> Any ideas how to keep the newline inside of variables?

Sure, just use quotes, like this:

VAR="`cat data`"
echo "$VAR"

c




From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Wed Dec 26 15:44:42 2007
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 15:44:42 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Scripting - Newlines getting clobbered?
In-Reply-To: <21645.216.144.215.245.1198700319.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
References: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE033ADA16@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<21645.216.144.215.245.1198700319.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE033ADA18@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

>> Any ideas how to keep the newline inside of variables?
>
>Sure, just use quotes, like this:
>
>VAR="`cat data`"
>echo "$VAR"
>
>c

Marvelous!  Worked like a charm.  Now I can ssh over to a server,
grab the data into a local variable and perform operations on it
instead of making several ssh connections to the remote and 
issuing several different commands.  Or even worse, using temp
files (yech!).

Greg


From cvweiss at gmail.com  Thu Dec 27 00:13:38 2007
From: cvweiss at gmail.com (Clinton V. Weiss)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 00:13:38 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Scripting - Newlines getting clobbered?
In-Reply-To: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE033ADA18@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
References: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE033ADA16@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<21645.216.144.215.245.1198700319.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
	<8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE033ADA18@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
Message-ID: <f0e9fe590712262113g565ea16dq367a3327a7316784@mail.gmail.com>

You might want to try using $() rather than backticks ``, it allows
for easier nesting of commands

Example:
VAR="$(cat data)"
echo $VAR

Also, depending on what you're doing:

while read line ; do
    echo $line
    # ... do stuff with the line of data ...
done < data

Here is a good resource for the budding bash scripter:
http://wooledge.org:8000/BashFAQ

It's a large page and a bit slow to load (Greg refuses to acknowledge
the slow part) but is an excellent resource.  I recommend wget'ing it
for quick local access.

-- 
Clinton V. Weiss
cvweiss at gmail.com


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Dec 27 00:25:27 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 00:25:27 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] U.S. Army Introducing Macs Into Server Arsenal
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712262125x27b163d0hb84ce4d7310fcd32@mail.gmail.com>

I think a heterogeneous environment is better for security but I think
they're overlooking a few platform options:

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/12/26/u_s_army_introducing_macs_into_server_arsenal/

United States - In an attempt to make the front-line security harder
for hackers to hack, the U.S. Department of Army has developed a
strategy which involves using Apple Macs in addition to Windows based
computers. The idea stems from the fact that fewer attacks have been
developed against Mac machines. The Army believes that by using a mix
of computers, a single hack attack will not be able to completely take
down a portion of their network at any given time.


From eaglecoach at wwnet.com  Thu Dec 27 00:21:20 2007
From: eaglecoach at wwnet.com (Robert Meier)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 00:21:20 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Scripting - Newlines getting clobbered?
In-Reply-To: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE033ADA18@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	(GregWojtak@quickenloans.com)
References: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE033ADA16@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<21645.216.144.215.245.1198700319.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
	<8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE033ADA18@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
Message-ID: <20071227052120.DEA0C127C6A@starfox.local>

Greg,

>>> Any ideas how to keep the newline inside of variables?
>> Sure, just use quotes, like this:
>>
>> VAR="`cat data`"
>> echo "$VAR"
> Marvelous!  Worked like a charm.

Consider habitually quoting any shell substitution you read non-numerically.
Once the habit is ingrained, the unnecessary quotes are painless,
and the absence of pesky shell errors due to mishandling whitespace
(e.g. spaces in filenames),
is well worth the time or so in a hundred that you overquote.

Hopefully helpful,
-- 
Robert Meier

  "I usually take a two hour nap from one to four."
     -- Yogi Berra


From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Thu Dec 27 09:15:45 2007
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 09:15:45 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Scripting - Newlines getting clobbered?
In-Reply-To: <20071227052120.DEA0C127C6A@starfox.local>
Message-ID: <C3991DC1.536C4%GregWojtak@quickenloans.com>

On 12/27/07 12:21 AM, "Robert Meier" <eaglecoach at wwnet.com> wrote:

> Greg,
> 
>>>> Any ideas how to keep the newline inside of variables?
>>> Sure, just use quotes, like this:
>>> 
>>> VAR="`cat data`"
>>> echo "$VAR"
>> Marvelous!  Worked like a charm.
> 
> Consider habitually quoting any shell substitution you read non-numerically.
> Once the habit is ingrained, the unnecessary quotes are painless,
> and the absence of pesky shell errors due to mishandling whitespace
> (e.g. spaces in filenames),
> is well worth the time or so in a hundred that you overquote.
> 
> Hopefully helpful,


You all are starting to make me feel like a noob.  I may not be in the
practice of using quotes all the time, but how many of you habitually use
the ${VAR} convention!??!  That's what I thought!  :P

Vindictively,

Greg  :-)



From tesral at comcast.net  Thu Dec 27 09:39:51 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 09:39:51 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] January 12
Message-ID: <4773B937.5050702@comcast.net>

Do we have a demo?

Also, I have acquired a CD/DVD burner for Darth Beemer and would like to
create a distro toaster.  Would the group recommend the 80 gig or the
120 gig hard drive to store ISO files?  I don't plan on holding source,
just the binary ISOs to burn disks at install fests.

I'll also need to start downloading ISO files.  Suse and Unbuntu are
givens.  Any other suggestions (and the URLs)

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From cvweiss at gmail.com  Thu Dec 27 12:09:04 2007
From: cvweiss at gmail.com (Clinton V. Weiss)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 12:09:04 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] January 12
In-Reply-To: <4773B937.5050702@comcast.net>
References: <4773B937.5050702@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <f0e9fe590712270909h75bd2f3s2b638fe6bdd1c884@mail.gmail.com>

On Dec 27, 2007 9:39 AM, Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:
> I'll also need to start downloading ISO files.  Suse and Unbuntu are
> givens.  Any other suggestions (and the URLs)

Gentoo for those who *really* want to get their hands dirty.  I'm
trying it now and it has been quite a learning experience.

-- 
Clinton V. Weiss
cvweiss at gmail.com


From radkins at impelind.com  Thu Dec 27 12:37:49 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 12:37:49 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel Woes/Issues
Message-ID: <20071227171626.944C31412E@impelind.com>

	I did some testing in building the latest kernel for OpenSuSe 10.3
and that went through without a hitch. The server boots up perfectly fine
and everything runs great.

	Unfortunately, when I did the same for an older edition of SuSe,
version 9.2, I am running into issues. The reason I need to build this
kernel is due to the fact that the SCSI card I picked up requires a driver
that had known issues for that particular revision of the Linux Kernel and
thus SuSe didn't build the module for it. From my reading, the issue has
been resolved and it is included with later versions of SuSe, such as
OpenSuSe 10.3.

	So, I built the kernel, the modules, did the install, rebooted the
server and chose the new kernel... Got an error message.

	The error referred to something about "subfs" and caused a failure
during the init process, which appears to be related to the ext3fs.

	At first, I thought that maybe I made an error in configuring the
kernel and thus did a straight "stock" kernel rebuild, only making one
single change, which was adding in the missinge scsi driver.

	Building this kernel and installing it, left me with the same error
message.

	It appears that the kernel is having trouble mounting up and reading
the ext3 file system that the server is running as it would occasionally
"drop" and then "reacquire" the ability to see the filesystem, for example
claiming that it didn't know what "ls" was and then moments later running an
"ls" command just perfectly. I believe this is also why I ended up with
Kernel panic at one point.

	Googling, I have found a mention of subfs having something to do
with floppy and CD-ROMs, which is puzzling as it should have no impact on
the ext3fs mounted drives.

	I'm going to comment out the CD-ROM and Floppy drive in /etc/fstab
and see if that corrects the issue, as I really have no need for either in
the server and go from there.

	If anyone is familiar with this issue and knows a quick way around
it, I would greatly appreciate any suggestions.

	Thanks,
	Rob



From carl at carltm.com  Thu Dec 27 15:00:29 2007
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 15:00:29 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Scripting - Newlines getting clobbered?
In-Reply-To: <C3991DC1.536C4%GregWojtak@quickenloans.com>
References: <C3991DC1.536C4%GregWojtak@quickenloans.com>
Message-ID: <57697.12.15.0.40.1198785629.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

Wojtak, Greg wrote:
> You all are starting to make me feel like a noob.  I may not be in the
> practice of using quotes all the time, but how many of you habitually use
> the ${VAR} convention!??!  That's what I thought!  :P

I use ${VAR} all the time.  It's the one with parentheses
that I don't use, since it is part of bash and not sh.  I
want all my scripts to work in sh.

> Vindictively,

Go get 'em Greg!

c




From micorral at comcast.net  Thu Dec 27 15:21:21 2007
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 15:21:21 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Scripting - Newlines getting clobbered?
In-Reply-To: <C3991DC1.536C4%GregWojtak@quickenloans.com>
References: <C3991DC1.536C4%GregWojtak@quickenloans.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.1.00.0712271457380.2155@banana.sluggo.net>

2007-12-27, Monsieur Wojtak, Greg a ecrit:
> You all are starting to make me feel like a noob.  I may not be in the
> practice of using quotes all the time, but how many of you habitually use
> the ${VAR} convention!??!

I do. Been doing that for years.
Also, besides quoting variables and using $() instead of backticks,
I always use read -r instead of just read, when reading files.

Michael


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Thu Dec 27 01:07:24 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 01:07:24 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] U.S. Army Introducing Macs Into Server Arsenal
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90712262125x27b163d0hb84ce4d7310fcd32@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e90712262125x27b163d0hb84ce4d7310fcd32@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4773411C.1040609@hotpop.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> I think a heterogeneous environment is better for security but I think
> they're overlooking a few platform options:
> 
> http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/12/26/u_s_army_introducing_macs_into_server_arsenal/
> 
> United States - In an attempt to make the front-line security harder
> for hackers to hack, the U.S. Department of Army has developed a
> strategy which involves using Apple Macs in addition to Windows based
> computers. The idea stems from the fact that fewer attacks have been
> developed against Mac machines. The Army believes that by using a mix
> of computers, a single hack attack will not be able to completely take
> down a portion of their network at any given time.

It's about time.

I'll bet the guys in the headquarters of the MP battalion
I was attached to will be absolutely hating it--they were
complete MS fanatics.  Ah well... it will expand their
horizons ;-)




From mathew.enders at prodigy.net  Thu Dec 27 18:27:58 2007
From: mathew.enders at prodigy.net (Mathew Enders)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 15:27:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] January 12
In-Reply-To: <4773B937.5050702@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <711451.90958.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:    Do we have a demo?

Also, I have acquired a CD/DVD burner for Darth Beemer and would like to
create a distro toaster. Would the group recommend the 80 gig or the
120 gig hard drive to store ISO files? I don't plan on holding source,
just the binary ISOs to burn disks at install fests.

I'll also need to start downloading ISO files. Suse and Unbuntu are
givens. Any other suggestions (and the URLs)

  Debian - http://www.debian.org/distrib/
   
  Kubuntu - http://www.kubuntu.org/download.php
   
  CentOS - http://www.centos.org/modules/tinycontent/index.php?id=15
   
  Fedora - http://fedoraproject.org/get-fedora



From jcbender at bendorius.com  Thu Dec 27 18:43:04 2007
From: jcbender at bendorius.com (Joseph C. Bender)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 18:43:04 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Scripting - Newlines getting clobbered?
In-Reply-To: <C3991DC1.536C4%GregWojtak@quickenloans.com>
References: <C3991DC1.536C4%GregWojtak@quickenloans.com>
Message-ID: <47743888.4030402@bendorius.com>

Wojtak, Greg wrote:
> 
> You all are starting to make me feel like a noob.  I may not be in the
> practice of using quotes all the time, but how many of you habitually use
> the ${VAR} convention!??!  
 >
	All the time.  There's a lot of shell scripting that would be very 
nasty if I didn't use that.


>That's what I thought!  :P
> 
	What, that many of us do?

Rhetorically,

JCB


-- 
Joseph Bender
Bendorius Consulting
P: 248-434-5580
F: 248-434-5581
jcbender at bendorius com


From rstaff at sprynet.com  Thu Dec 27 19:18:52 2007
From: rstaff at sprynet.com (Richard Staff)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 19:18:52 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Stock tracking program
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90712241102k76900b4byc43ce8534048202@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cd5131a50712240830h3476ae11h9d43a8f894962bc7@mail.gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90712241102k76900b4byc43ce8534048202@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <477440EC.4050803@sprynet.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> On Dec 24, 2007 11:30 AM, - <otakurider at gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>> Anyone have any programs they have seen to track stock investments.  I have
>> tried GnuCash but it seems a bit more work that I have been looking for and
>> importing my files from my broker accounts seem to have some problems.
>> Currently I use Microsoft Money but want to go to open source.
>>     
>
> I haven't used any but look here for leads:
>
> http://www.linuxlinks.com/Software/Financial/Stockmarket/
> http://www.linux.org/apps/all/Office/Financial-1.html?sort=author
> http://freshmeat.net/articles/view/269/
>
> Once you've compared them all you can present your findings at the
> next meeting. :)
>
>   
Please add to the above over kill listings "KMyMoney".
It is KDE based and modeled on Microsoft Money and Quicken.
I have version 0.8.2 and have been using it for a couple years.
KMyMoney's current version level is 0.8.8.
There is an "Investment" icon item that can be selected.
I do not know how functional the "Investment" choice is.
I have only used KMyMoney as a simple replacement for Quicken.
Income and expense tracking, budgeting, savings, that sort of thing.
Rick


From driveray at ameritech.net  Thu Dec 27 20:55:24 2007
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 20:55:24 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel Woes/Issues
In-Reply-To: <20071227171626.944C31412E@impelind.com>
References: <20071227171626.944C31412E@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <4774578C.6030403@ameritech.net>

Robert Adkins wrote:

> 	So, I built the kernel, the modules, did the install, rebooted the
> server and chose the new kernel... Got an error message. The error referred to
> something about "subfs" and caused a failure
> during the init process, which appears to be related to the ext3fs.

The precise wording of this message would be helpful.

> 	It appears that the kernel is having trouble mounting up and reading
> the ext3 file system that the server is running as it would occasionally
> "drop" and then "reacquire" the ability to see the filesystem, for example
> claiming that it didn't know what "ls" was and then moments later running an
> "ls" command just perfectly. I believe this is also why I ended up with
> Kernel panic at one point.
> 
> 	Googling, I have found a mention of subfs having something to do
> with floppy and CD-ROMs, which is puzzling as it should have no impact on
> the ext3fs mounted drives.

Subfs was SuSE's way of mounting removable media of all types during the
9.? thru 10.0 era. (This is something they keep dicking around with
GRRR!) Subfs was a pretty good way of dealing with removable media, it
allowed users to eject media at will with no hard, as long as a write
wasn't in progress at the time.

Your system's root partition certainly shouldn't be mounted subfs!
Posting a copy of your /etc/fstab might help.


> 	If anyone is familiar with this issue and knows a quick way around
> it, I would greatly appreciate any suggestions.

A little more information might help.

> 	Thanks,
> 	Rob
> 


From tesral at comcast.net  Thu Dec 27 21:04:44 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 21:04:44 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] January 12
In-Reply-To: <711451.90958.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <711451.90958.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <477459BC.7020209@comcast.net>

Mathew Enders wrote:
> Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:    Do we have a demo?
>
> Also, I have acquired a CD/DVD burner for Darth Beemer and would like to
> create a distro toaster. Would the group recommend the 80 gig or the
> 120 gig hard drive to store ISO files? I don't plan on holding source,
> just the binary ISOs to burn disks at install fests.
>
> I'll also need to start downloading ISO files. Suse and Unbuntu are
> givens. Any other suggestions (and the URLs)
>
>   Debian - http://www.debian.org/distrib/
>    
>   Kubuntu - http://www.kubuntu.org/download.php
>    
>   CentOS - http://www.centos.org/modules/tinycontent/index.php?id=15
>    
>   Fedora - http://fedoraproject.org/get-fedora
>   

Thank you Matt. 

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From eaglecoach at wwnet.com  Thu Dec 27 18:50:47 2007
From: eaglecoach at wwnet.com (Robert Meier)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 18:50:47 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Scripting - Newlines getting clobbered?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.1.00.0712271457380.2155@banana.sluggo.net> (message
	from Michael Corral on Thu, 27 Dec 2007 15:21:21 -0500 (EST))
References: <C3991DC1.536C4%GregWojtak@quickenloans.com>
	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0712271457380.2155@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <20071227235047.097C7127C69@starfox.local>

Michael,

> Also, besides quoting variables and using $() instead of backticks,
> I always use read -r instead of just read, when reading files.

ditto

I won't say how many times I was burned before then :/ .

Likewise,

	find ... -print | while read f; do ...; done

Reporting,
-- 
Robert Meier

  "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from
   oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that
   will reach to himself."
	--Thomas Paine


From radkins at impelind.com  Fri Dec 28 08:36:43 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 08:36:43 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel Woes/Issues
In-Reply-To: <4774578C.6030403@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <20071228131521.D0B0D1412E@impelind.com>




> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Raymond McLaughlin
> Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 8:55 PM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Kernel Woes/Issues
> 
> Robert Adkins wrote:
> 
> > 	So, I built the kernel, the modules, did the install, 
> rebooted the 
> > server and chose the new kernel... Got an error message. The error 
> > referred to something about "subfs" and caused a failure during the 
> > init process, which appears to be related to the ext3fs.
> 
> The precise wording of this message would be helpful.
>

	I have found out more about the subfs issue:

	1. Commenting out the lines for the removable media has eliminated
this error.

	2. There is a subfs module out there that I can rebuild to work with
the new kernel, since the only subfs systems were the CD-ROM and the Floppy
drive, this isn't a very serious need to do at this time.
 
	I am still having some issues with the new kernel. Which I believe
is related to NFS.

	Currently, I am running two servers:

	1. Email, Proxy, DHCP, NFS Share of /home

	2. Samba Domain Controller, File backup, Mounts server1's /home as
the local /home (in order to backup the users home directories to backup the
IMAP shares.)

	The primary issue that the server now has is that when I go to log
into the server, using a user account, the login process completely hangs.
Logging in as the root user, I can go into the /home and see the user
directories. However, I am unable to cd into or ls the contents of those
directories. Checking the logs, there are no error messages, just a plain
hardlock of that particular console session. (Which I am able to kill.)

	-Rob



From radkins at impelind.com  Fri Dec 28 11:05:43 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 11:05:43 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel Woes/Issues
In-Reply-To: <20071228131521.D0B0D1412E@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <20071228154421.89A491412E@impelind.com>

> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org
> > [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Raymond McLaughlin
> > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 8:55 PM
> > To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> > Subject: Re: [mdlug] Kernel Woes/Issues
> > 
> > Robert Adkins wrote:
> > 
> > > 	So, I built the kernel, the modules, did the install,
> > rebooted the
> > > server and chose the new kernel... Got an error message. 
> The error 
> > > referred to something about "subfs" and caused a failure 
> during the 
> > > init process, which appears to be related to the ext3fs.
> > 
> > The precise wording of this message would be helpful.
> >
> 
> 	I have found out more about the subfs issue:
> 
> 	1. Commenting out the lines for the removable media has 
> eliminated this error.
> 
> 	2. There is a subfs module out there that I can rebuild 
> to work with the new kernel, since the only subfs systems 
> were the CD-ROM and the Floppy drive, this isn't a very 
> serious need to do at this time.
>  
> 	I am still having some issues with the new kernel. 
> Which I believe is related to NFS.
> 
> 	Currently, I am running two servers:
> 
> 	1. Email, Proxy, DHCP, NFS Share of /home
> 
> 	2. Samba Domain Controller, File backup, Mounts 
> server1's /home as the local /home (in order to backup the 
> users home directories to backup the IMAP shares.)
> 
> 	The primary issue that the server now has is that when 
> I go to log into the server, using a user account, the login 
> process completely hangs.
> Logging in as the root user, I can go into the /home and see 
> the user directories. However, I am unable to cd into or ls 
> the contents of those directories. Checking the logs, there 
> are no error messages, just a plain hardlock of that 
> particular console session. (Which I am able to kill.)
> 
> 	-Rob
> 

	A little additional information:

	1. I have rebuilt the kernel for an OpenSuSe 10.3 test server using
the default options from the stock kernel and this server is able to mount
the NFS share from "Server1" read/write, without issue.

	-Rob



From muteid10t at gmail.com  Fri Dec 28 12:35:41 2007
From: muteid10t at gmail.com (Ron Blanchett)
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 12:35:41 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel Woes/Issues
In-Reply-To: <20071228154421.89A491412E@impelind.com>
References: <20071228131521.D0B0D1412E@impelind.com>
	<20071228154421.89A491412E@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <52995d720712280935g1d786366u33bea110b06d23fb@mail.gmail.com>

What versions of NFS are you running on the different systems.
I could be wrong but I don't think that older versions of the NFS
client can connect to the newer server versions.

Also make sure that you have enabled NFS support in the kernel on the
system that you are having the NFS connection problems on.

-Ron

p.s. send any error output from either the console or the system logs
from said trioubled system that relate to the NFS mount issue.

On 12/28/07, Robert Adkins <radkins at impelind.com> wrote:
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org
> > > [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Raymond McLaughlin
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 8:55 PM
> > > To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> > > Subject: Re: [mdlug] Kernel Woes/Issues
> > >
> > > Robert Adkins wrote:
> > >
> > > >   So, I built the kernel, the modules, did the install,
> > > rebooted the
> > > > server and chose the new kernel... Got an error message.
> > The error
> > > > referred to something about "subfs" and caused a failure
> > during the
> > > > init process, which appears to be related to the ext3fs.
> > >
> > > The precise wording of this message would be helpful.
> > >
> >
> >       I have found out more about the subfs issue:
> >
> >       1. Commenting out the lines for the removable media has
> > eliminated this error.
> >
> >       2. There is a subfs module out there that I can rebuild
> > to work with the new kernel, since the only subfs systems
> > were the CD-ROM and the Floppy drive, this isn't a very
> > serious need to do at this time.
> >
> >       I am still having some issues with the new kernel.
> > Which I believe is related to NFS.
> >
> >       Currently, I am running two servers:
> >
> >       1. Email, Proxy, DHCP, NFS Share of /home
> >
> >       2. Samba Domain Controller, File backup, Mounts
> > server1's /home as the local /home (in order to backup the
> > users home directories to backup the IMAP shares.)
> >
> >       The primary issue that the server now has is that when
> > I go to log into the server, using a user account, the login
> > process completely hangs.
> > Logging in as the root user, I can go into the /home and see
> > the user directories. However, I am unable to cd into or ls
> > the contents of those directories. Checking the logs, there
> > are no error messages, just a plain hardlock of that
> > particular console session. (Which I am able to kill.)
> >
> >       -Rob
> >
>
>         A little additional information:
>
>         1. I have rebuilt the kernel for an OpenSuSe 10.3 test server using
> the default options from the stock kernel and this server is able to mount
> the NFS share from "Server1" read/write, without issue.
>
>         -Rob
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From radkins at impelind.com  Fri Dec 28 13:24:09 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 13:24:09 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel Woes/Issues
In-Reply-To: <52995d720712280935g1d786366u33bea110b06d23fb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20071228180248.519141412E@impelind.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Ron Blanchett
> Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 12:36 PM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Kernel Woes/Issues
> 
> What versions of NFS are you running on the different systems.
> I could be wrong but I don't think that older versions of the 
> NFS client can connect to the newer server versions.
> 
> Also make sure that you have enabled NFS support in the 
> kernel on the system that you are having the NFS connection 
> problems on.
> 

	NFS Support is in both kernels. I built the problem kernel, using
the config.gz extracted from the running kernel on the system. The only
change I made to the configuration was adding in the scsi driver module that
SuSe hadn't included in their last Stock Kernel, which had a problem with
the particular kernel level back when 9.2 was supported, this has
subsequently has been fixed and is included in at least the latest OpenSuSe.

> 
> p.s. send any error output from either the console or the 
> system logs from said trioubled system that relate to the NFS 
> mount issue.
> 

	That's the rub.

	I have seen no error messages with mounting the NFS Shares. In fact,
the shares show up as being mounted just fine and dandy. What happens is
that when attempting to login with a user account with the home that is
located on the NFS share, it just hardlocks that terminal session.

	The same thing happens when attempting to list the contents of one
of those home directories when logged in as root. CTL-C won't even kill the
command, I have to login via another terminal session and then kill the ls
command process to unfreeze the locked session.

	-Rob



From starline at wideopenwest.com  Fri Dec 28 13:02:19 2007
From: starline at wideopenwest.com (Bob Dion)
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 13:02:19 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Tech charities to consider this giving season
Message-ID: <47753A2B.80009@wideopenwest.com>

Tech charities to consider this giving season

http://www.linux.com/feature/123069


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Dec 31 14:08:07 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 14:08:07 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Another item from M$ for your next Myth TV sales pitch
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712311108me17deb2n3ce518bf81167050@mail.gmail.com>

LOL:
http://www.technewsworld.com/story/60986.html


From jcbender at bendorius.com  Sat Dec  1 00:07:29 2007
From: jcbender at bendorius.com (Joseph C. Bender)
Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 00:07:29 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] WiFi -Woes(?) or Broadcom is 'the' lame
In-Reply-To: <DB50A7F3-51ED-4CB6-8EC5-4E92170562C3@gmail.com>
References: <20071129224716.05F5F140DF@impelind.com>
	<DB50A7F3-51ED-4CB6-8EC5-4E92170562C3@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4750EC11.9020301@bendorius.com>

Michael Newman wrote:
> Why not leave the network open and filter MAC addresses. That would be  
> more secure than wpa2 and should allow you to connect freely since the  
> protection is all in the router. With the linksys router it is pretty  
> basic to set up. Also if you leave things open make sure you change  
> the ipaddress and password on the local router. In college people  
> would change ssids and passwords just for fun on whatever routers were  
> found open.
> 
	Dear Gods above, no!  This is terrible advice.

1.  This is massively vulnerable to MAC spoofing attacks.

2.  By doing that, it's now possible to sniff everything that's 
happening on that network.  Any semblance of protection is an illusion. 
  There is no protection, let alone the router providing it.  More 
secure?  Not even close.

	WPA2 + MAC filtering is a better idea.  WPA2-enterprise is an even 
better idea with full-bore 802.1x on top of it, but most people aren't 
going to want to sink that much time into their home networks.  *grin*. 
  WPA2 + AES-CCMP is pretty good, as long as one chooses a nice random 
hex string.  The issue is that the passphrases most people use really 
stink.  The thing about WPA(2) was that TKIP was about as bad as WEP 
was, and IIRC used the same  RC4 implementation.  AES-CCMP or nothing.


-- 
Joseph Bender
Bendorius Consulting
P: 248-434-5580
F: 248-434-5581
jcbender at bendorius com


From radkins at impelind.com  Sat Dec  1 08:18:36 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 08:18:36 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] WiFi -Woes(?) or Broadcom is 'the' lame
In-Reply-To: <4750EC11.9020301@bendorius.com>
Message-ID: <20071201132535.9230B1412E@impelind.com>

> > 
> 	Dear Gods above, no!  This is terrible advice.
> 
> 1.  This is massively vulnerable to MAC spoofing attacks.
> 
> 2.  By doing that, it's now possible to sniff everything 
> that's happening on that network.  Any semblance of 
> protection is an illusion. 
>   There is no protection, let alone the router providing it.  
> More secure?  Not even close.
> 
> 	WPA2 + MAC filtering is a better idea.  WPA2-enterprise 
> is an even better idea with full-bore 802.1x on top of it, 
> but most people aren't going to want to sink that much time 
> into their home networks.  *grin*. 
>   WPA2 + AES-CCMP is pretty good, as long as one chooses a 
> nice random hex string.  The issue is that the passphrases 
> most people use really stink.  The thing about WPA(2) was 
> that TKIP was about as bad as WEP was, and IIRC used the same 
>  RC4 implementation.  AES-CCMP or nothing.
> 
> 

	Thanks for the information.

 	I never use plain old passphrases. I usually open up notepad or vi
or kate and just mash some keys along with tapping the shift key from time
to time. Since it is my home network and I'm really unconcerned with leaving
a password out, I write down the results and store it in a hidey-hole, in
case I need to type it into something down the road.

	Giving me results like this:

	JKGHYDfuyuyd%#$%fvjkyfRYE$#

	Still haven't had the time to give the supposedly newer Windows
drivers a go with NDIS. Hopefully, there will be some time this afternoon.

	-Rob



From peter at petertheplumber.net  Sat Dec  1 15:17:05 2007
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 15:17:05 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] What to give a Software Programmer interested in Linux
Message-ID: <20071201151705.74160528@Nokia-N800-26>

Hi,
	I have a friend that has up to now had a passing interest in
Linux. He has just gone on assignment where the boss has decreed ''Thou
shalt learn Linux'' ahem ''Yesterday!''. My thought is to make him
copies of what live CD's I have which would be Ubuntu and DSL. I think
I should get him a copy of Knoppix and I heard openSuse has one now? I
also have an IBM T22 Thinkpad w/openSuse 10.3 on it he can play with.
I'll send along my relatel bookmarks and point him to the mailing lists
and forums.
	Is there anything I didn't think of?

Best Regards,

-- 
Peter The Plumber sm on the Road
State Licensed Plumber
State Certified Backflow Device Tester
Factory Trained Boiler Install/Service
<http://petertheplumber.net>
24h Service 313.215.5175

Don't sleep with a drip! Call a licensed and experienced plumber.


From cvweiss at gmail.com  Sat Dec  1 15:43:10 2007
From: cvweiss at gmail.com (Clinton V. Weiss)
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 15:43:10 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] What to give a Software Programmer interested in Linux
In-Reply-To: <20071201151705.74160528@Nokia-N800-26>
References: <20071201151705.74160528@Nokia-N800-26>
Message-ID: <f0e9fe590712011243g46c1f5f3l89dff24ff47d742a@mail.gmail.com>

On Dec 1, 2007 3:17 PM, Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:
> Hi,
>         I have a friend that has up to now had a passing interest in
> Linux. He has just gone on assignment where the boss has decreed ''Thou
> shalt learn Linux'' ahem ''Yesterday!''.

A group mind meld would catch him up rather quickly!

-- 
Clinton V. Weiss
cvweiss at gmail.com


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sat Dec  1 16:08:03 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 16:08:03 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] What to give a Software Programmer interested in Linux
In-Reply-To: <20071201151705.74160528@Nokia-N800-26>
References: <20071201151705.74160528@Nokia-N800-26>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712011308s5660d6f5ucce4a0d9881a471@mail.gmail.com>

On Dec 1, 2007 3:17 PM, Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:
> Is there anything I didn't think of?

What programming languages are going to be used?


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Sat Dec  1 16:15:47 2007
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 16:15:47 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] What to give a Software Programmer interested in Linux
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90712011308s5660d6f5ucce4a0d9881a471@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20071201151705.74160528@Nokia-N800-26>
	<b02c40e90712011308s5660d6f5ucce4a0d9881a471@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1196543747.9092.215.camel@plumber.site>


On Sat, 2007-12-01 at 16:08 -0500, Jeff Hanson wrote:
> On Dec 1, 2007 3:17 PM, Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:
> > Is there anything I didn't think of?
> 
> What programming languages are going to be used?

	That's an excellent question to which I don't know the answer! Sorry,
we'll have to try Clinton's suggestion.

Best Regards,
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From drew4096 at gmail.com  Sat Dec  1 17:50:13 2007
From: drew4096 at gmail.com (Drew)
Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 17:50:13 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] More OOCalc math wonkiness
In-Reply-To: <4750C357.2080902@hotpop.com>
References: <etPan.4750c021.328a2b63.2aa0@zaurus> <4750C357.2080902@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20071201174454.029b5160@pop.gmail.com>

At 09:13 PM 11/30/07, Aaron Kulkis wrote:


>Why are you even using a 2.0.0 BETA version when OO
>is already up to 2.2 RELEASE ?

     The Beta version was what was on the Fedora Core disk, and I 
hadn't noticed that it was Beta -
the indicating text was nearly the same color as the background on 
the startup logo.

     Henceforth I'm using the OO 2.0 that's on my Kanotix image. 
However I have discovered that
I can't just load in the old spreadsheets with it; somehow or other 
they still behave in a Beta
fashion if I do. It seems it's necessary to re-type in everything by 
hand in order to get the benefits
of non-Beta status.

----

   - Drew.



From micorral at comcast.net  Sat Dec  1 18:49:49 2007
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 18:49:49 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] What to give a Software Programmer interested in Linux
In-Reply-To: <20071201151705.74160528@Nokia-N800-26>
References: <20071201151705.74160528@Nokia-N800-26>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.0.99999.0712011847240.2439@banana.sluggo.net>

2007-12-01, Monsieur Peter Bart a ecrit:
> 	Is there anything I didn't think of?

<http://www.amazon.com/GNU-Emacs-Manual-Version-15th/dp/188211485X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1196552772&sr=1-1>

Michael


From driveray at ameritech.net  Sat Dec  1 20:59:58 2007
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 20:59:58 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] More OOCalc math wonkiness
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20071201174454.029b5160@pop.gmail.com>
References: <etPan.4750c021.328a2b63.2aa0@zaurus> <4750C357.2080902@hotpop.com>
	<6.2.3.4.0.20071201174454.029b5160@pop.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4752119E.4010201@ameritech.net>

Drew wrote:
 >      The Beta version was what was on the Fedora Core disk, and I

Ouch! Mark one big one against Fedora Core, unless the whole thing was a
pre-release distro.

> hadn't noticed that it was Beta - the indicating text was nearly
> the same color as the background on the startup logo.
> 
> Henceforth I'm using the OO 2.0 that's on my Kanotix image. 
> However I have discovered that I can't just load in the old
> spreadsheets with it; somehow or other they still behave in a Beta
> fashion if I do. It seems it's necessary to re-type in everything by 
> hand in order to get the benefits of non-Beta...

One slightly easier method might be as follows: Open the offending
document and a new document in adjacent windows. In the bad one select
Tools->Options...->OpenOffice.org Calc->View->Display and check the bx
labeled "Formulas". Although this seems to be a global setting it
doesn't seem to affect other open windows. And no great shakes if it
does, you can always change the view setting back when you are done.

>From this point you should be able to select and copy and paste you
numbers and formulas from the old sheet to the new one. They *should*
all display as text, and be unchanged from what you entered, as opposed
to the XML that the app interprets it to be. And when pasted into the
new doc it *should* act the same as if you had typed it in.

I know there's a lot of *should*s in all that, but it's definitely worth
trying before going to the trouble of retyping all you work.

I hope this helps
Raymond McLaughlin





From rherrell at twmi.rr.com  Sat Dec  1 21:45:13 2007
From: rherrell at twmi.rr.com (Richard Herrell)
Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 21:45:13 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] What to give a Software Programmer interested in Linux
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.0.99999.0712011847240.2439@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <20071201151705.74160528@Nokia-N800-26>
	<alpine.LFD.0.99999.0712011847240.2439@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <47521C39.1050605@twmi.rr.com>

Yes, give him an emacs manual.  That way, he can burn it and keep warm 
while learning vi.   :)

Just kidding.  A newbie from Windows should probably start using a total 
IDE.  Eclipse supports Java and C++.

Also, if the Windows programmer knows C# / .NET, he/she should check out 
Mono (C# for Linux) and try the Monodevelop IDE.

Regards,

Richard


Michael Corral wrote:
> 2007-12-01, Monsieur Peter Bart a ecrit:
>   
>> 	Is there anything I didn't think of?
>>     
>
> <http://www.amazon.com/GNU-Emacs-Manual-Version-15th/dp/188211485X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1196552772&sr=1-1>
>
> Michael
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>   



From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Sun Dec  2 19:33:52 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 19:33:52 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] What to give a Software Programmer interested in Linux
In-Reply-To: <47521C39.1050605@twmi.rr.com>
References: <20071201151705.74160528@Nokia-N800-26>	<alpine.LFD.0.99999.0712011847240.2439@banana.sluggo.net>
	<47521C39.1050605@twmi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <47534EF0.6090706@hotpop.com>

Richard Herrell wrote:
> Yes, give him an emacs manual.  That way, he can burn it and keep warm 
> while learning vi.   :)
> 
> Just kidding.  A newbie from Windows should probably start using a total 
> IDE.  Eclipse supports Java and C++.

Why encourage a pattern of living in a "gilded cage"?

Real programmer's aren't reliant on an IDE.

The only reason IDE's were invented is because the command
line was (and remains) so utterly underpowered in Windows.

Really... teaching him or her to learn emacs or vi is MUCH
more useful.

> Also, if the Windows programmer knows C# / .NET, he/she should check out 
> Mono (C# for Linux) and try the Monodevelop IDE.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Richard
> 
> 
> Michael Corral wrote:
>> 2007-12-01, Monsieur Peter Bart a ecrit:
>>   
>>> 	Is there anything I didn't think of?
>>>     
>> <http://www.amazon.com/GNU-Emacs-Manual-Version-15th/dp/188211485X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1196552772&sr=1-1>
>>
>> Michael




From micorral at comcast.net  Sun Dec  2 22:24:37 2007
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 22:24:37 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] What to give a Software Programmer interested in Linux
In-Reply-To: <47521C39.1050605@twmi.rr.com>
References: <20071201151705.74160528@Nokia-N800-26>
	<alpine.LFD.0.99999.0712011847240.2439@banana.sluggo.net>
	<47521C39.1050605@twmi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.0.99999.0712022201190.5112@banana.sluggo.net>

2007-12-01, Monsieur Richard Herrell a ecrit:
> Yes, give him an emacs manual.  That way, he can burn it and keep warm
> while learning vi.   :)
>
> Just kidding.  A newbie from Windows should probably start using a total
> IDE.  Eclipse supports Java and C++.

I understand the reasoning behind that approach, as a way of easing a
Windows person into Linux. I think the goal of the programmer makes a
difference. If it's just to do Windows .NET programming in Linux (e.g.
Mono, as you mention below), then using an IDE is probably the best
idea, since that's what the person is used to. "Learning" Linux just
to do .NET programming basically makes you a tourist in a foreign
land anyhow, no need to learn the ways of the natives.

But if the goal is to do actual Linux programming, then learning things
like Emacs, vi, bash, and various command-line utilities (grep, sort,
sed, awk, etc.) is important, IMHO. Being comfortable on the command
line and "gluing" various tools together is still a big part of the
Linux/UNIX "way", certainly for programmers. Emacs is a good way of
getting introduced to all that, with all the ways it has of interacting
with the OS (and other things:).

Michael

> Also, if the Windows programmer knows C# / .NET, he/she should check out
> Mono (C# for Linux) and try the Monodevelop IDE.
>
> Michael Corral wrote:
>> 2007-12-01, Monsieur Peter Bart a ecrit:
>>> 	Is there anything I didn't think of?
>> <http://www.amazon.com/GNU-Emacs-Manual-Version-15th/dp/188211485X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1196552772&sr=1-1>


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Sun Dec  2 22:21:04 2007
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 22:21:04 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] What to give a Software Programmer interested in Linux
In-Reply-To: <47534EF0.6090706@hotpop.com>
References: <20071201151705.74160528@Nokia-N800-26>
	<alpine.LFD.0.99999.0712011847240.2439@banana.sluggo.net>
	<47521C39.1050605@twmi.rr.com> <47534EF0.6090706@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <20071202222104.49cc9b35@Nokia-N800-26>

On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 19:33:52 -0500
Aaron Kulkis <akulkis3 at hotpop.com> wrote:

> Richard Herrell wrote:
> > Yes, give him an emacs manual.  That way, he can burn it and keep
> > warm while learning vi.   :)
> > 
> > Just kidding.  A newbie from Windows should probably start using a
> > total IDE.  Eclipse supports Java and C++.
> 
> Why encourage a pattern of living in a "gilded cage"?
> 
> Real programmer's aren't reliant on an IDE.
> 
> The only reason IDE's were invented is because the command
> line was (and remains) so utterly underpowered in Windows.
> 
> Really... teaching him or her to learn emacs or vi is MUCH
> more useful.
> 
> > Also, if the Windows programmer knows C# / .NET, he/she should
> > check out Mono (C# for Linux) and try the Monodevelop IDE.

	Actually it gets much more interesting, he's also supposed to
learn Perl. At any rate I dropped off my little care package, on the
laptop he found the terminal right away. 
	On that note, on his company supplied laptop he's not allowed
to load anything. Ditto for the customer supplied laptop. Not even in a
virtual machine, under threat of dismissal! Yet he's supposed
to.........??? I could see where even a live cd  would be
misconstrued. Seems like the perfect arguement for a true root/user
system!

-- 
Peter The Plumber sm on the Road
State Licensed Plumber
State Certified Backflow Device Tester
Factory Trained Boiler Install/Service
<http://petertheplumber.net>
24h Service 313.215.5175

Don't sleep with a drip! Call a licensed and experienced plumber.


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Sun Dec  2 23:00:18 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 23:00:18 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] What to give a Software Programmer interested in Linux
In-Reply-To: <20071202222104.49cc9b35@Nokia-N800-26>
References: <20071201151705.74160528@Nokia-N800-26>	<alpine.LFD.0.99999.0712011847240.2439@banana.sluggo.net>	<47521C39.1050605@twmi.rr.com>
	<47534EF0.6090706@hotpop.com>
	<20071202222104.49cc9b35@Nokia-N800-26>
Message-ID: <47537F52.4000701@hotpop.com>

Peter Bart wrote:
> On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 19:33:52 -0500
> Aaron Kulkis <akulkis3 at hotpop.com> wrote:
> 
>> Richard Herrell wrote:
>>> Yes, give him an emacs manual.  That way, he can burn it and keep
>>> warm while learning vi.   :)
>>>
>>> Just kidding.  A newbie from Windows should probably start using a
>>> total IDE.  Eclipse supports Java and C++.
>> Why encourage a pattern of living in a "gilded cage"?
>>
>> Real programmer's aren't reliant on an IDE.
>>
>> The only reason IDE's were invented is because the command
>> line was (and remains) so utterly underpowered in Windows.
>>
>> Really... teaching him or her to learn emacs or vi is MUCH
>> more useful.
>>
>>> Also, if the Windows programmer knows C# / .NET, he/she should
>>> check out Mono (C# for Linux) and try the Monodevelop IDE.
> 
> 	Actually it gets much more interesting, he's also supposed to
> learn Perl. At any rate I dropped off my little care package, on the
> laptop he found the terminal right away. 
> 	On that note, on his company supplied laptop he's not allowed
> to load anything. Ditto for the customer supplied laptop. Not even in a
> virtual machine, under threat of dismissal! Yet he's supposed
> to.........??? I could see where even a live cd  would be
> misconstrued. Seems like the perfect arguement for a true root/user
> system!

With idiotic rules like that, I'd find a new company
to work for.  If they're too dumb to realize that on
a Linux machine, non-root users can safely run just
about everything, then they're going to be WAY too
aggravating to work for.





From peter at petertheplumber.net  Mon Dec  3 06:32:29 2007
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 06:32:29 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] What to give a Software Programmer interested in Linux
In-Reply-To: <47537F52.4000701@hotpop.com>
References: <20071201151705.74160528@Nokia-N800-26>
	<alpine.LFD.0.99999.0712011847240.2439@banana.sluggo.net>
	<47521C39.1050605@twmi.rr.com> <47534EF0.6090706@hotpop.com>
	<20071202222104.49cc9b35@Nokia-N800-26> <47537F52.4000701@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <1196681549.9092.249.camel@plumber.site>


On Sun, 2007-12-02 at 23:00 -0500, Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> Peter Bart wrote:
<snip>
> > 
> > 	Actually it gets much more interesting, he's also supposed to
> > learn Perl. At any rate I dropped off my little care package, on the
> > laptop he found the terminal right away. 
> > 	On that note, on his company supplied laptop he's not allowed
> > to load anything. Ditto for the customer supplied laptop. Not even in a
> > virtual machine, under threat of dismissal! Yet he's supposed
> > to.........??? I could see where even a live cd  would be
> > misconstrued. Seems like the perfect arguement for a true root/user
> > system!
> 
> With idiotic rules like that, I'd find a new company
> to work for.  If they're too dumb to realize that on
> a Linux machine, non-root users can safely run just
> about everything, then they're going to be WAY too
> aggravating to work for.

	Yes, that thought has crossed my mind in his regard. But if it's all
you know then who's to say it's aggravating? He learns ways around those
regs just like I learn to c&p commands into a terminal to get what I
want. Granted, I actually learn some of the commands as I do that thanks
to man. Apparently there are a *lot* of people that bring their own
laptops in and connect them to the network; for that purpose; despite
the same threat of dismissal. Some sort of don't ask don't tell.
	Also one has to consider the economic climate here in the state. I
imagine it's easier to telecommute for a programmer than it is for a
plumber, but it has to play into it somewhere?

Best Regards,
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Mon Dec  3 09:19:47 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 09:19:47 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] What to give a Software Programmer interested in Linux
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.0.99999.0712022201190.5112@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACDE@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Michael Corral

> But if the goal is to do actual Linux programming, then learning things
> like Emacs, vi, bash, and various command-line utilities (grep, sort,
> sed, awk, etc.) is important, IMHO. Being comfortable on the command
> line and "gluing" various tools together is still a big part of the
> Linux/UNIX "way", certainly for programmers. Emacs is a good way of
> getting introduced to all that, with all the ways it has of 
> interacting with the OS (and other things:).

 If the goal is indeed to do Linux programming, then Eric Raymond's book "The
Art of Unix Programming" would be quite valuable:

 http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/taoup/

 The whole book is available online, or you can buy it from various places.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                          (313) 227-2317

 "Bush's claim that he listed three exceptions under which he would
 run deficits during a 2000 Chicago campaign stop -- war, national
 emergency or recession -- is blatantly false. No one has found any
 evidence that Bush made such a statement, and the White House has
         pointedly failed to provide any." - Salon
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From tmorris at ugs.com  Mon Dec  3 09:35:25 2007
From: tmorris at ugs.com (Morris, Tim)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 08:35:25 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] OT: Want to swap AGP Geforce2 MX 200 for PCI video card
	w/Hardware T&L
In-Reply-To: <474BD59E.3080209@hotpop.com>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACC9@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<alpine.LFD.0.99999.0711261940400.2123@banana.sluggo.net>	<6.2.3.4.0.20071127015550.029811f0@pop.gmail.com><alpine.LFD.0.99999.0711270029210.5305@banana.sluggo.net>
	<474BD59E.3080209@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E20407D420@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>

This is cheap:
<http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815166004>

We actually bought two of these, and they work well (with the addition
of some kernel params to activate all 8):
<http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815124019>


-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Aaron Kulkis
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 3:30 AM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] OT: Want to swap AGP Geforce2 MX 200 for PCI video
card w/Hardware T&L

Michael Corral wrote:
> 2007-11-27, Monsieur Drew a ecrit:
>> At 07:56 PM 11/26/07, Michael Corral wrote:
>>> BTW, if anyone needs any ISA video cards, let me know. I need to get
>>> rid of this (and a whole bunch of other) stuff.
>>     No need for a video card here; but do you by chance have a PCI
serial
>> card?
> 
> No. I've never even seen such a thing.

sounds like something you would plug into a PCI
slot, and then get dozens (or 16's) of serial ports,
for, say, hooking up a bunch of ASCII terminals.

Digiboard (www.digi.com) made them in the 90's.

<http://www.google.com/search?q=pci+port-concentrator+serial&start=0&sta
rt=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=mozilla&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial>


_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From radkins at impelind.com  Mon Dec  3 10:13:02 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 10:13:02 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] What to give a Software Programmer interested in Linux
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACDE@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <20071203152006.1C51F140DF@impelind.com>


	There's a good book called "The Linux Programmers Guide" or
something to that effect. (A google search appears to only contain links to
an online "book" that is similar, yet not the same as what the book I am
talking about.

	I picked it up to sharped my bash scripting skills. It covers
several Linux shell scripting languages with both theoreticals and examples.
It also covers sed/awk, tcl/tk, delves into some C/C++. It's mostly a
surface brushing of topics and covers some basics of internal Linux
commands.

	If anything, it could be a good help to learn how elements in Linux
interact with one another, which should be a good stepping off point.

	Hopefully, your friend's boss isn't expecting any kind of serious
competency with Linux within a few short weeks. It could take more than a
handful of months just to become familiar enough that some things start
becoming second nature and then years on top of that before it all becomes
natural, to the point that your friend will just be able to do things and
come up with answers for problems/issues without even thinking about it.

	I'll see if I can pull out that book this evening and email off the
ISBN information to the list.

-Rob



> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Ingles, Raymond
> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 9:20 AM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] What to give a Software Programmer 
> interested in Linux
> 
> > From: Michael Corral
> 
> > But if the goal is to do actual Linux programming, then learning 
> > things like Emacs, vi, bash, and various command-line 
> utilities (grep, 
> > sort, sed, awk, etc.) is important, IMHO. Being comfortable on the 
> > command line and "gluing" various tools together is still a 
> big part 
> > of the Linux/UNIX "way", certainly for programmers. Emacs is a good 
> > way of getting introduced to all that, with all the ways it has of 
> > interacting with the OS (and other things:).
> 
>  If the goal is indeed to do Linux programming, then Eric 
> Raymond's book "The Art of Unix Programming" would be quite valuable:
> 
>  http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/taoup/
> 
>  The whole book is available online, or you can buy it from 
> various places.
> 
>  Sincerely,
> 
>  Ray Ingles                                          (313) 227-2317
> 
>  "Bush's claim that he listed three exceptions under which he 
> would  run deficits during a 2000 Chicago campaign stop -- 
> war, national  emergency or recession -- is blatantly false. 
> No one has found any  evidence that Bush made such a 
> statement, and the White House has
>          pointedly failed to provide any." - Salon The 
> contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee 
> only. It contains information that may be confidential. 
> Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, 
> you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If 
> you received it in error please notify us immediately and 
> then destroy it.
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Dec  3 12:21:16 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 12:21:16 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] What to give a Software Programmer interested in Linux
In-Reply-To: <20071202222104.49cc9b35@Nokia-N800-26>
References: <20071201151705.74160528@Nokia-N800-26>
	<alpine.LFD.0.99999.0712011847240.2439@banana.sluggo.net>
	<47521C39.1050605@twmi.rr.com> <47534EF0.6090706@hotpop.com>
	<20071202222104.49cc9b35@Nokia-N800-26>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712030921p588526bcsa2b367e7f24c6a7a@mail.gmail.com>

On Dec 2, 2007 10:21 PM, Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:
>         Actually it gets much more interesting, he's also supposed to
> learn Perl. At any rate I dropped off my little care package, on the
> laptop he found the terminal right away.

I don't know much about Perl.  If he is going to be doing any C# or
Java cross-platform stuff then Mainsoft (www.mainsoft.com) has a lot
of tools including plug-ins for Visual Studio.

>         On that note, on his company supplied laptop he's not allowed
> to load anything. Ditto for the customer supplied laptop. Not even in a
> virtual machine, under threat of dismissal! Yet he's supposed
> to.........??? I could see where even a live cd  would be
> misconstrued. Seems like the perfect arguement for a true root/user
> system!

There are several companies that provide hosted systems with ssh and
vnc access that can be used for development.  Search with Google for
"dedicated hosting linux account development ssh vnc".


From radkins at impelind.com  Mon Dec  3 13:36:29 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 13:36:29 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] WiFi -Woes(?) or Broadcom is 'the' lame
In-Reply-To: <20071201132535.9230B1412E@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <20071203184333.0295114142@impelind.com>

It's working.

I'm currently unsure why. However, the laptop is now connecting with WPA
authentication on the wireless router.

The only different thing that I did was boot the latop to the desktop
without plugging the laptop into the hardline. At the time, a friend had his
laptop plugged into my hardline to download a few updates to his laptop that
would have taken "days" on his dial-up.

I made no changes to the configuration, I had not had a chance to install
the supposed newer drivers either. (Installing that driver is why I had
booted up the laptop in the first place.)

-Rob



From peter at petertheplumber.net  Mon Dec  3 15:17:43 2007
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 15:17:43 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] What to give a Software Programmer interested in Linux
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACDE@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <alpine.LFD.0.99999.0712022201190.5112@banana.sluggo.net>
	<41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACDE@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <20071203151743.4f2ccb4f@Nokia-N800-26>

On Mon, 3 Dec 2007 09:19:47 -0500
"Ingles, Raymond" <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:

> > From: Michael Corral
> 
> > But if the goal is to do actual Linux programming, then learning
> > things like Emacs, vi, bash, and various command-line utilities
> > (grep, sort, sed, awk, etc.) is important, IMHO. Being comfortable
> > on the command line and "gluing" various tools together is still a
> > big part of the Linux/UNIX "way", certainly for programmers. Emacs
> > is a good way of getting introduced to all that, with all the ways
> > it has of interacting with the OS (and other things:).
> 
>  If the goal is indeed to do Linux programming, then Eric Raymond's
> book "The Art of Unix Programming" would be quite valuable:
> 
>  http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/taoup/
> 
>  The whole book is available online, or you can buy it from various
> places.

	Thank you all for your suggestions! I emailed my friend the
link  to the thread in the archive so he can decide for himself. 
	It's kind of worrysome to think *I* have a protege ;)

Best Regards,

-- 
Peter The Plumber sm on the Road


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Mon Dec  3 23:04:13 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 23:04:13 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: Re: [opensuse] vmware and fake scsi devs]  SOLUTION
Message-ID: <4754D1BD.4010107@hotpop.com>



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [opensuse] vmware and fake scsi devs
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 00:09:38 -0300
From: Cristian Rodr?guez <crrodriguez at suse.de>
To: opensuse at opensuse.org
References: <200712031538.26426.kanenas at hawaii.rr.com>

kanenas at hawaii.rr.com escribi?:
> It seems there is one major downside to all the disks being "called" scsi 
> devices in 10.3.

There is no downside, error or annoyance, it is just a well known
change.. did you read the release notes ?

http://www.suse.com/relnotes/i386/openSUSE/10.3/RELEASE-NOTES.en.html#09

+
+ libata for IDE Devices
+
+ libata uses /dev/sda for the first harddisk instead of /dev/hda.
+ Disks with more than 15 partitions are not handled automatically
+ right now. You can disable libata support by booting with the
+ following kernel parameter:
+
+ hwprobe=-modules.pata
+
+ Then you see all the partitions > 15 again and can access them
+ for installation.



-- 
"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education." -
Albert Einstein

Cristian Rodr?guez R.
Platform/OpenSUSE - Core Services
SUSE LINUX Products GmbH
Research & Development
http://www.opensuse.org/





From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Mon Dec  3 23:03:56 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 23:03:56 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: [opensuse] vmware and fake scsi devs]
Message-ID: <4754D1AC.6050804@hotpop.com>

An interesting issue came up on the Opensuse list.

By some mechanism, SuSE 10.3 presents all disks as SCSI
(even IDE), causing problems with VMWare.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [opensuse] vmware and fake scsi devs
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 15:38:26 -1000
From: kanenas at hawaii.rr.com
To: opensuse at opensuse.org

It seems there is one major downside to all the disks
being "called" scsi devices in 10.3. There are applications
that take /dev/scx literally as a scsi disk x. One such
application is vmware. This ended being a major problem
when i tried to use a raw partition as a physical vmware
disk on my laptop.

The actual disk is an ide device, but the first partition
in my Suse 10.3 install is called /dev/sda1 and that is
what it passes to vmware as the actual physical disk.
Vmware has for a long time stated that it does not boot
from physical scsi devices and thus it keels over when
it sees that the raw device is scsi.

Is there an easy way to pass the actual partition type
to vmware workstation 4.x or server 1.x) in 10.3 or do
i go back to 10.2?
thanks,
d.






From radkins at impelind.com  Tue Dec  4 08:28:46 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 08:28:46 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: [opensuse] vmware and fake scsi devs]
In-Reply-To: <4754D1AC.6050804@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <20071204133552.6289914142@impelind.com>

	I could only suggest putting a filesystem on the partition on
intends to run a VMWare session/image from, instead of leaving it raw.

	I am having no issues with running VMWare (Player) on my laptop
running OpenSuSe 10.3. It runs absolutely fine with the virtual machine
image sitting in my home directory.

	-Rob


> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Kulkis
> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 11:04 PM
> To: mdlug at mdlug.org
> Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: [opensuse] vmware and fake scsi devs]
> 
> An interesting issue came up on the Opensuse list.
> 
> By some mechanism, SuSE 10.3 presents all disks as SCSI (even 
> IDE), causing problems with VMWare.
> 
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [opensuse] vmware and fake scsi devs
> Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 15:38:26 -1000
> From: kanenas at hawaii.rr.com
> To: opensuse at opensuse.org
> 
> It seems there is one major downside to all the disks being 
> "called" scsi devices in 10.3. There are applications that 
> take /dev/scx literally as a scsi disk x. One such 
> application is vmware. This ended being a major problem when 
> i tried to use a raw partition as a physical vmware disk on my laptop.
> 
> The actual disk is an ide device, but the first partition in 
> my Suse 10.3 install is called /dev/sda1 and that is what it 
> passes to vmware as the actual physical disk.
> Vmware has for a long time stated that it does not boot from 
> physical scsi devices and thus it keels over when it sees 
> that the raw device is scsi.
> 
> Is there an easy way to pass the actual partition type to 
> vmware workstation 4.x or server 1.x) in 10.3 or do i go back to 10.2?
> thanks,
> d.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 



From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Tue Dec  4 08:54:24 2007
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 08:54:24 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Linux is "greener"
Message-ID: <b67fb0380712040554s1de5f9d1laa7c69ed85ceb7b7@mail.gmail.com>

I have an alert set up at the CNN website that sends me an e-mail each
time a Linux-related story comes across the wire.  Most are not worthy
of a pass-along, but this one is.

I actually remember this story from the first time around, but it's
good to see it pop up again in a general-news context.  Of course,
WinVsita actually exacerbates and ACCELERATES the problem...

True or False: E-Waste
12/03/07 09:52 PM, EST
True or False: Switching from a Windows-operated computer to a
Linux-operated one could slash computer-generated e-waste levels by
50%.
<http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/12/03/eco.myth.ewaste/index.html>

A typical real-world story:
"Philippines and other nations brace for more e-waste"
<http://www.philnews.com/2007/002a.html>

~~ Mikey


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Tue Dec  4 08:56:36 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 08:56:36 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Anyone using an HDTV as a monitor?
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACE8@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>

Spent a few minutes last night plugging in the laptop to our HDTV (it has a VGA
input). It's a Syntax LT32HV, 1366x768 pixels. Using the "nvidia-settings" program,
I was able to get up to 1280x768, which looked quite nice. Apparently, however, it's
possible to get 'pixel-exact' representation, so that nothing's stretched. Anyone
have any experience with that?

 From what I've been able to gather, if I edit the xorg.conf file and add an appropriate
mode (without timings), it has a chance of working. I've also found some mode timings that
might work. Apparently the fact that 1366 is not an exact multiple of 8 can be a problem;
some people do 1360 or 1368.

 It's only a toy, unfortunately. The onboard video card only has 8MB of VRAM, so
I can't play 3D games at 1280x720 or anything like that. It's got a 1.6MHz P4-M,
no slouch but there's no chance it could play HD movies. But it might be fun to
surf the web or whatever with it...

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                              (313) 227-2317

 "There is a fine line between being on to something and on something."
                          -Friar Broccoli
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From radkins at impelind.com  Tue Dec  4 09:47:54 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 09:47:54 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Anyone using an HDTV as a monitor?
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACE8@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <20071204145459.7404A14140@impelind.com>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Ingles, Raymond
> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 8:57 AM
> To: Mdlug (E-mail)
> Subject: [mdlug] Anyone using an HDTV as a monitor?
> 
> Spent a few minutes last night plugging in the laptop to our 
> HDTV (it has a VGA input). It's a Syntax LT32HV, 1366x768 
> pixels. Using the "nvidia-settings" program, I was able to 
> get up to 1280x768, which looked quite nice. Apparently, 
> however, it's possible to get 'pixel-exact' representation, 
> so that nothing's stretched. Anyone have any experience with that?
> 
>  From what I've been able to gather, if I edit the xorg.conf 
> file and add an appropriate mode (without timings), it has a 
> chance of working. I've also found some mode timings that 
> might work. Apparently the fact that 1366 is not an exact 
> multiple of 8 can be a problem; some people do 1360 or 1368.
> 
>  It's only a toy, unfortunately. The onboard video card only 
> has 8MB of VRAM, so I can't play 3D games at 1280x720 or 
> anything like that. It's got a 1.6MHz P4-M, no slouch but 
> there's no chance it could play HD movies. But it might be 
> fun to surf the web or whatever with it...
> 

	Yes, you will need to edit the xorg.conf file. If you plug the
resolution you are seeking into Google and include xorg.conf in the search
terms, there is likely a high chance of obtaining the actual mode settings
you will need for it to properly display.

	I used to have to do that everytime I setup a new distro, updated
X11/xorg on my laptop, which is a wide-screen model, until just about a few
years back. None of the vendors provided the ability to detect, nor even
properly configure wide-screen screens until back then.

	-Rob



From dcl400m at yahoo.com  Tue Dec  4 09:54:29 2007
From: dcl400m at yahoo.com (David Lane)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 06:54:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] Anyone using an HDTV as a monitor?
Message-ID: <281160.30811.qm@web37907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I got a Wide screen Samsung and every thing is stretched. And the DVD player Xine does not play movies.

David


----- Original Message ----
From: "Ingles, Raymond" <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com>
To: Mdlug (E-mail) <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 4, 2007 8:56:36 AM
Subject: [mdlug] Anyone using an HDTV as a monitor?


Spent a few minutes last night plugging in the laptop to our HDTV (it
 has a VGA
input). It's a Syntax LT32HV, 1366x768 pixels. Using the
 "nvidia-settings" program,
I was able to get up to 1280x768, which looked quite nice. Apparently,
 however, it's
possible to get 'pixel-exact' representation, so that nothing's
 stretched. Anyone
have any experience with that?

 From what I've been able to gather, if I edit the xorg.conf file and
 add an appropriate
mode (without timings), it has a chance of working. I've also found
 some mode timings that
might work. Apparently the fact that 1366 is not an exact multiple of 8
 can be a problem;
some people do 1360 or 1368.

 It's only a toy, unfortunately. The onboard video card only has 8MB of
 VRAM, so
I can't play 3D games at 1280x720 or anything like that. It's got a
 1.6MHz P4-M,
no slouch but there's no chance it could play HD movies. But it might
 be fun to
surf the web or whatever with it...

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                              (313) 227-2317

 "There is a fine line between being on to something and on something."
                          -Friar Broccoli
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only.
 It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the
 named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or
 disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify
 us immediately and then destroy it.
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug






      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping


From radkins at impelind.com  Tue Dec  4 10:49:21 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 10:49:21 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Anyone using an HDTV as a monitor?
In-Reply-To: <281160.30811.qm@web37907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20071204155627.04A0314142@impelind.com>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of David Lane
> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 9:54 AM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Anyone using an HDTV as a monitor?
> 
> I got a Wide screen Samsung and every thing is stretched. And 
> the DVD player Xine does not play movies.
> 
> David
> 
> 

	What distro are you using?

	I use OpenSuse10.3 and it suggests Kaffeine as the media player.
When you fire up Kaffiene for the first time, it suggests that you install
the "third party" and covered by copy right media codecs. If you say "yes"
it takes you to a website which has a link to one of the OpenSuSe 10.3
"one-click" install packages. This will install all of the Windows Media
Codecs, DCCS and several others.

	I did that, popped in a DVD and voila! It just worked.

	-Rob



From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Tue Dec  4 09:33:27 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 09:33:27 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: [opensuse] vmware and fake scsi devs]
In-Reply-To: <20071204133552.6289914142@impelind.com>
References: <20071204133552.6289914142@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <47556537.60802@hotpop.com>

Robert Adkins wrote:
> 	I could only suggest putting a filesystem on the partition on
> intends to run a VMWare session/image from, instead of leaving it raw.
> 
> 	I am having no issues with running VMWare (Player) on my laptop
> running OpenSuSe 10.3. It runs absolutely fine with the virtual machine
> image sitting in my home directory.

That's good to know.  Perhaps it is older version of VMWare
that don't deal with SCSI very well.


> 
> 	-Rob
> 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
>> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Kulkis
>> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 11:04 PM
>> To: mdlug at mdlug.org
>> Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: [opensuse] vmware and fake scsi devs]
>>
>> An interesting issue came up on the Opensuse list.
>>
>> By some mechanism, SuSE 10.3 presents all disks as SCSI (even 
>> IDE), causing problems with VMWare.
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: [opensuse] vmware and fake scsi devs
>> Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 15:38:26 -1000
>> From: kanenas at hawaii.rr.com
>> To: opensuse at opensuse.org
>>
>> It seems there is one major downside to all the disks being 
>> "called" scsi devices in 10.3. There are applications that 
>> take /dev/scx literally as a scsi disk x. One such 
>> application is vmware. This ended being a major problem when 
>> i tried to use a raw partition as a physical vmware disk on my laptop.
>>
>> The actual disk is an ide device, but the first partition in 
>> my Suse 10.3 install is called /dev/sda1 and that is what it 
>> passes to vmware as the actual physical disk.
>> Vmware has for a long time stated that it does not boot from 
>> physical scsi devices and thus it keels over when it sees 
>> that the raw device is scsi.
>>
>> Is there an easy way to pass the actual partition type to 
>> vmware workstation 4.x or server 1.x) in 10.3 or do i go back to 10.2?
>> thanks,
>> d.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mdlug mailing list
>> mdlug at mdlug.org
>> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 





From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Tue Dec  4 13:05:58 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 13:05:58 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Remotely Use Linux
In-Reply-To: <1196205102.8812.5.camel@bemus-tony>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACEA@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>

I discovered a trick for Windows XP. Normally, it does not allow anyone to be logged
onto the desktop if someone is using the Remote Desktop feature; indeed, it will kick
off anyone using the desktop if a remote connection is set up.

 However... beta versions of XP SP2 did not impose such a limit. Googling for "Remote
Desktop XP Concurrent Sessions" will turn up copies of the beta termsrv.dll and how
to apply it.

 Now the kids can be playing web games or whatever on the machine while my wife does
work for her bakery on the laptop. Linux has a nice RDP client... :->

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                              (313) 227-2317

 "You don't *understand* quantum mechanics, you just *get used to it*."
                          - Richard Feynman
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Tue Dec  4 13:10:42 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 13:10:42 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Upgrading from Vista to XP
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACEB@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>

We did that last weekend. My wife is hooked on MS Office, so we have a Windows machine.
But we got our Dell C521 before they offered XP as an option; it came with Vista. I've
already reported on the list the problems I had with it (sssslllloooowwww, and many games
simply would not work).

 Finally, my wife just could not stand how slow Vista was. So, I set up XP. (Fun fact...
you can't install the Windows chipset drivers before you install SP2, or you won't get
USB 2.0. I had to uninstall the USB hardware and let the OS reinstall it. "Windows...
the operating system that makes you delete things to get them to work.") The same machine
is now *much* faster, and plays the games I have just fine, no more than the usual
Windows troubles.

 Of course, when I did the reformatting, I left a few gigs open for Linux. Can't wait to
see how it works on that hardware...

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                              (313) 227-2317

 "I can imagine no way in which this thing could be considered anywhere
           remotely close to safe." - Aaron, in _Primer_
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Tue Dec  4 13:49:21 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 13:49:21 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Linux is "greener"
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380712040554s1de5f9d1laa7c69ed85ceb7b7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380712040554s1de5f9d1laa7c69ed85ceb7b7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712041049q490aa858r1d1a3c23597e4ccf@mail.gmail.com>

On Dec 4, 2007 8:54 AM, Michael Rudas <audiotech50 at gmail.com> wrote:
> True or False: E-Waste
> 12/03/07 09:52 PM, EST
> True or False: Switching from a Windows-operated computer to a
> Linux-operated one could slash computer-generated e-waste levels by
> 50%.

Not only is Linux faster on old systems but there isn't any of the
licensing hassles and restrictions that accompany the M$ "Software
Donation Program"
(http://www.techsoup.org/stock/Category.asp?catalog_name=TechSoupMain&category_name=Microsoft&Page=1)
and the "Microsoft Authorized Refurbisher" program
(http://www.techsoup.org/mar/).


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Tue Dec  4 13:52:52 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 13:52:52 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Upgrading from Vista to XP
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACEB@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACEB@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712041052v618a1f7fve678613cd7fdd383@mail.gmail.com>

On Dec 4, 2007 1:10 PM, Ingles, Raymond <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:
> We did that last weekend. My wife is hooked on MS Office, so we have a Windows machine.
> But we got our Dell C521 before they offered XP as an option; it came with Vista. I've
> already reported on the list the problems I had with it (sssslllloooowwww, and many games
> simply would not work).

Some XP/Vista/Office2003/Office2007 benchmarks:  exo-blog.blogspot.com
Apparently they are accurate because M$ are after them.


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Tue Dec  4 14:28:19 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 14:28:19 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Linux is "greener"
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90712041049q490aa858r1d1a3c23597e4ccf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACED@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Jeff Hanson

> Not only is Linux faster on old systems but there isn't any of the
> licensing hassles and restrictions that accompany the M$ "Software
> Donation Program"

 Well, it certainly *can* be faster, and usually is. But recent distros of
Linux can be pretty darn memory-hungry. The latest Ubuntu is a bit sluggish
on our "new-to-us" laptop with 384MB of RAM. I'm working on ways to trim the
fat off; I might look at Xubuntu.

 That being said, Linux's 'sweet spot' seems to be around 512MB of RAM. For
XP, it seems to need about double that, 1GB.

 Of course, I recall when Linux with 16MB RAM was faster than Windows with
32MB... :->

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                     (313) 227-2317

 "Imagine a cluster of Windows machines. They'd have to have a
    team of MCSE's equipped with roller skates, just to keep
           pressing reset buttons." - Peter Jensen
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Tue Dec  4 14:14:21 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 14:14:21 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Upgrading from Vista to XP
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90712041052v618a1f7fve678613cd7fdd383@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACEB@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<b02c40e90712041052v618a1f7fve678613cd7fdd383@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4755A70D.5050800@hotpop.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> On Dec 4, 2007 1:10 PM, Ingles, Raymond <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:
>> We did that last weekend. My wife is hooked on MS Office, so we have a Windows machine.
>> But we got our Dell C521 before they offered XP as an option; it came with Vista. I've
>> already reported on the list the problems I had with it (sssslllloooowwww, and many games
>> simply would not work).
> 
> Some XP/Vista/Office2003/Office2007 benchmarks:  exo-blog.blogspot.com
> Apparently they are accurate because M$ are after them.


The MS EULA asserts (fraudulently, I believe) that you cannot
publish ANY benchmark results for MS products without approval
from MS.




From tmorris at ugs.com  Wed Dec  5 13:11:35 2007
From: tmorris at ugs.com (Morris, Tim)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 12:11:35 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: Re: [opensuse] vmware and fake scsi devs] SOLUTION
In-Reply-To: <4754D1BD.4010107@hotpop.com>
References: <4754D1BD.4010107@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E20407D434@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>

Ahhhhhh....

There's nothing better than sarcastic tech support.

--  Tim Morris - UGS PLM Software

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Kulkis
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 11:04 PM
To: mdlug at mdlug.org
Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: Re: [opensuse] vmware and fake scsi devs] SOLUTION



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [opensuse] vmware and fake scsi devs
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 00:09:38 -0300
From: Cristian Rodr?guez <crrodriguez at suse.de>
To: opensuse at opensuse.org
References: <200712031538.26426.kanenas at hawaii.rr.com>

kanenas at hawaii.rr.com escribi?:
> It seems there is one major downside to all the disks being "called" scsi 
> devices in 10.3.

There is no downside, error or annoyance, it is just a well known
change.. did you read the release notes ?

http://www.suse.com/relnotes/i386/openSUSE/10.3/RELEASE-NOTES.en.html#09

+
+ libata for IDE Devices
+
+ libata uses /dev/sda for the first harddisk instead of /dev/hda.
+ Disks with more than 15 partitions are not handled automatically
+ right now. You can disable libata support by booting with the
+ following kernel parameter:
+
+ hwprobe=-modules.pata
+
+ Then you see all the partitions > 15 again and can access them
+ for installation.



-- 
"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education." -
Albert Einstein

Cristian Rodr?guez R.
Platform/OpenSUSE - Core Services
SUSE LINUX Products GmbH
Research & Development
http://www.opensuse.org/



_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From tesral at comcast.net  Wed Dec  5 15:35:04 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:35:04 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Upgrading from Vista to XP
In-Reply-To: <4755A70D.5050800@hotpop.com>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACEB@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>	<b02c40e90712041052v618a1f7fve678613cd7fdd383@mail.gmail.com>
	<4755A70D.5050800@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <47570B78.8070500@comcast.net>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> The MS EULA asserts (fraudulently, I believe) that you cannot
> publish ANY benchmark results for MS products without approval
> from MS.

I do believe you are right, and they would be fools to push it.

Oh, wait, it's microsoft we are talking about.

I find it interesting they fear an objective measurement to that degree.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Wed Dec  5 21:43:19 2007
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 21:43:19 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] AntiSpam Tools
Message-ID: <001e01c837b1$c3001240$6401a8c0@AMD2000>

Sorry... I know this discussion came up yet again recently.  What are the 
latest anti-spam tools people are successfully running on their own mail 
domains?

-Mike



From ldaphelp at thuemmel.com  Wed Dec  5 21:52:41 2007
From: ldaphelp at thuemmel.com (Mark Thuemmel)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 21:52:41 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] AntiSpam Tools
In-Reply-To: <001e01c837b1$c3001240$6401a8c0@AMD2000>
References: <001e01c837b1$c3001240$6401a8c0@AMD2000>
Message-ID: <475763F9.9000605@thuemmel.com>

Michael ORourke wrote:
> Sorry... I know this discussion came up yet again recently.  What are the 
> latest anti-spam tools people are successfully running on their own mail 
> domains?
> 
> -Mike
> 

http://assp.sourceforge.net/ was easy to set up and works great on my
Postfix box.


From muteid10t at gmail.com  Wed Dec  5 21:56:01 2007
From: muteid10t at gmail.com (Ron Blanchett)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 21:56:01 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] AntiSpam Tools
In-Reply-To: <001e01c837b1$c3001240$6401a8c0@AMD2000>
References: <001e01c837b1$c3001240$6401a8c0@AMD2000>
Message-ID: <52995d720712051856l3026c379t4fa3e1ef1c398212@mail.gmail.com>

spamassassin, amavisd-new, & dnsbl via spamhaus.
At work we block about 1500+ emails a day with the dnsbl from spamhaus alone.
And we tag about another 150+ messages that get filtered into users
junk mail folders.
To date we have not had a false positive, spamassassin is set to tag
at a score of 6 or higher.

On 12/5/07, Michael ORourke <mrorourke at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Sorry... I know this discussion came up yet again recently.  What are the
> latest anti-spam tools people are successfully running on their own mail
> domains?
>
> -Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From mdlug3 at arb.net  Wed Dec  5 23:17:10 2007
From: mdlug3 at arb.net (Dave Arbogast)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 23:17:10 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] AntiSpam Tools
In-Reply-To: <001e01c837b1$c3001240$6401a8c0@AMD2000>
References: <001e01c837b1$c3001240$6401a8c0@AMD2000>
Message-ID: <475777C6.8040009@arb.net>

Hi Mike, I use Postfix with Spamassassin, but do several things up 
front. In the main.cf file I block SMTP handshakes from quite a few 
countries with:

smtpd_client_restrictions =
        permit_mynetworks,
        check_client_access hash:/etc/postfix/access,
        reject_unknown_client,
        reject_rbl_client sbl-xbl.spamhaus.org,
        reject_rbl_client zen.spamhaus.org,
        reject_rbl_client ae.countries.nerd.dk,
        reject_rbl_client am.countries.nerd.dk,
        reject_rbl_client ar.countries.nerd.dk,
        reject_rbl_client ao.countries.nerd.dk,
        reject_rbl_client ad.countries.nerd.dk,
and many more for countries I do not have friends / clients in. Of 
course the biggest offenders were CN, HK, KR, IT, JP, MX, and some 
former USSR countries. Notice the unknown client and spamhaus blocking. 
The good thing about this is there is little processing on my end as the 
message is never accepted. I also have some header restrictions for a 
few specific offenders and former addresses I had hosted - this too 
prevents processing at my end. I have some class B and C networks listed 
in the access list to block when they are problematic senders who pay 
enough money that their US ISP will not block them.

My domain has been out there since 1996, so there are many blasts to it 
hourly. I have the same email address now for about 6 or 7 years at my 
domain and now only get about 0 - 2 spams per day with these measures.

-dave

Michael ORourke wrote:

>Sorry... I know this discussion came up yet again recently.  What are the 
>latest anti-spam tools people are successfully running on their own mail 
>domains?
>
>-Mike
>
>_______________________________________________
>mdlug mailing list
>mdlug at mdlug.org
>http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>  
>


From relson at osagesoftware.com  Wed Dec  5 23:28:10 2007
From: relson at osagesoftware.com (David Relson)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 23:28:10 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] AntiSpam Tools
In-Reply-To: <001e01c837b1$c3001240$6401a8c0@AMD2000>
References: <001e01c837b1$c3001240$6401a8c0@AMD2000>
Message-ID: <20071205232810.54533df3@osage.osagesoftware.com>

On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 21:43:19 -0500
Michael ORourke wrote:

> Sorry... I know this discussion came up yet again recently.  What are
> the latest anti-spam tools people are successfully running on their
> own mail domains?
> 
> -Mike

I've been getting very good results with bogofilter
( http://sourceforge.net/projects/bogofilter/ ).  So far this month it
has correctly identified 99.98% of the spam. The single false negative
was a bounce message for a message with a forged return address.

Regards,

David

P.S. I'm the project lead.


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Thu Dec  6 02:15:26 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 02:15:26 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] AntiSpam Tools
In-Reply-To: <001e01c837b1$c3001240$6401a8c0@AMD2000>
References: <001e01c837b1$c3001240$6401a8c0@AMD2000>
Message-ID: <4757A18E.7020703@hotpop.com>

Michael ORourke wrote:
> Sorry... I know this discussion came up yet again recently.  What are the 
> latest anti-spam tools people are successfully running on their own mail 
> domains?

I like the Russian spam solution.

I get about 20 pieces of Russian-language spam every day.
Most of it is for stuff that people are actually interested
in, such as new housing developments, restaurants and
entertainment venues around Moscow, industrial products
(I recieved several for a poly-carbonate window maker).
About 50% is for business seminars: imports/exports, a lot
of classes for accountants, and some for head accountants.
ALL of this spam includes full contact information  --
not only legitimate e-mail reply addresses to reply to,
but also telephone numbers and street addresses.
Everything you would expect from legitimate business
advertisements.

However, about 2 years ago, I started getting some that
is more like the typical English-language spam, for the
same sorts of dubious come-ons, and similarly lacking
any contact information -- just the usual "click here
and give us your credit card info" type of stuff.

The Russian solution:  All of this nasty spam stopped
one day within hours after someone dumped his corpse
in an alley.




From millerc at cantonpl.org  Thu Dec  6 08:16:36 2007
From: millerc at cantonpl.org (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 08:16:36 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] AntiSpam Tools
In-Reply-To: <001e01c837b1$c3001240$6401a8c0@AMD2000>
References: <001e01c837b1$c3001240$6401a8c0@AMD2000>
Message-ID: <27320.216.144.215.245.1196946996.squirrel@mail.cantonpl.org>

Michael ORourke wrote:
> Sorry... I know this discussion came up yet again recently.  What are the
> latest anti-spam tools people are successfully running on their own mail
> domains?

ASSP.  It works very well!  Especially if you want to filter email
for an entire domain.  I've got 100's of people who have forgotten
what spam looks like.

c




From radkins at impelind.com  Thu Dec  6 08:17:04 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 08:17:04 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] AntiSpam Tools
In-Reply-To: <4757A18E.7020703@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <20071206132413.E740A14143@impelind.com>

> 
> I like the Russian spam solution.

Snip

> 
> The Russian solution:  All of this nasty spam stopped one day 
> within hours after someone dumped his corpse in an alley.
> 

	I read about this case. It wasn't exactly altruism that won the day.

	The death has been linked to Russian organized crime. It appears
that regardless of what you do, if you actually ignore those "Pay us
protection, or else" statements from Russian Organized Crime, they will
quite brutally, physically beat you to death.

	Nobody, not even a spam king deserves that.

	-Rob



From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Thu Dec  6 02:06:30 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 02:06:30 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: Re: [opensuse] vmware and fake scsi devs] SOLUTION
In-Reply-To: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E20407D434@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
References: <4754D1BD.4010107@hotpop.com>
	<B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E20407D434@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
Message-ID: <47579F76.2080302@hotpop.com>

Morris, Tim wrote:
> Ahhhhhh....
> 
> There's nothing better than sarcastic tech support.
> 

You mean there's another kind?

> --  Tim Morris - UGS PLM Software
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Kulkis
> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 11:04 PM
> To: mdlug at mdlug.org
> Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: Re: [opensuse] vmware and fake scsi devs] SOLUTION
> 
> 
> 
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [opensuse] vmware and fake scsi devs
> Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 00:09:38 -0300
> From: Cristian Rodr?guez <crrodriguez at suse.de>
> To: opensuse at opensuse.org
> References: <200712031538.26426.kanenas at hawaii.rr.com>
> 
> kanenas at hawaii.rr.com escribi?:
>> It seems there is one major downside to all the disks being "called" scsi 
>> devices in 10.3.
> 
> There is no downside, error or annoyance, it is just a well known
> change.. did you read the release notes ?
> 
> http://www.suse.com/relnotes/i386/openSUSE/10.3/RELEASE-NOTES.en.html#09
> 
> +
> + libata for IDE Devices
> +
> + libata uses /dev/sda for the first harddisk instead of /dev/hda.
> + Disks with more than 15 partitions are not handled automatically
> + right now. You can disable libata support by booting with the
> + following kernel parameter:
> +
> + hwprobe=-modules.pata
> +
> + Then you see all the partitions > 15 again and can access them
> + for installation.
> 
> 
> 





From rrclark at rrclark.net  Thu Dec  6 15:20:21 2007
From: rrclark at rrclark.net (Rich Clark <rrclark@rrclark.net>)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 15:20:21 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Linux is "greener"
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACED@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACED@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.c
	pwr.corp>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.0.81.0712061518301.26893@rich.rrclark.net>

On Tue, 4 Dec 2007, Ingles, Raymond wrote:

>  Well, it certainly *can* be faster, and usually is. But recent distros 
> of Linux can be pretty darn memory-hungry. The latest Ubuntu is a bit 
> sluggish on our "new-to-us" laptop with 384MB of RAM. I'm working on 
> ways to trim the fat off; I might look at Xubuntu.

Even Windows would be sluggish with only 384MB RAM. You might want to get 
a stick of RAM for that machine since it's pretty cheap for a GB.

>  That being said, Linux's 'sweet spot' seems to be around 512MB of RAM. For
> XP, it seems to need about double that, 1GB.
>
>  Of course, I recall when Linux with 16MB RAM was faster than Windows with
> 32MB... :->

I fear that Linux will be faster on anything when compared to running 
Windows.  Windows == bloatware.


From radkins at impelind.com  Thu Dec  6 15:22:24 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 15:22:24 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Linux is "greener"
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.0.81.0712061518301.26893@rich.rrclark.net>
Message-ID: <20071206202935.D177314143@impelind.com>


> On Tue, 4 Dec 2007, Ingles, Raymond wrote:
> 
> >  Well, it certainly *can* be faster, and usually is. But recent 
> > distros of Linux can be pretty darn memory-hungry. The 
> latest Ubuntu 
> > is a bit sluggish on our "new-to-us" laptop with 384MB of RAM. I'm 
> > working on ways to trim the fat off; I might look at Xubuntu.
> 
> Even Windows would be sluggish with only 384MB RAM. You might 
> want to get a stick of RAM for that machine since it's pretty 
> cheap for a GB.
> 
> >  That being said, Linux's 'sweet spot' seems to be around 512MB of 
> > RAM. For XP, it seems to need about double that, 1GB.
> >
> >  Of course, I recall when Linux with 16MB RAM was faster 
> than Windows 
> > with 32MB... :->
> 
> I fear that Linux will be faster on anything when compared to 
> running Windows.  Windows == bloatware.

	Linux still would run faster. Nobody says that you MUST use a GUI or
install every single service under the sun in order to run Linux.

	Although, who would really want to do that in this day and age when
there is so much hardware available for so relatively few dollars these
days.

	-Rob



From rrclark at rrclark.net  Thu Dec  6 15:31:53 2007
From: rrclark at rrclark.net (Rich Clark <rrclark@rrclark.net>)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 15:31:53 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] AntiSpam Tools
In-Reply-To: <475777C6.8040009@arb.net>
References: <001e01c837b1$c3001240$6401a8c0@AMD2000> <475777C6.8040009@arb.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.0.81.0712061531100.26893@rich.rrclark.net>

On Wed, 5 Dec 2007, Dave Arbogast wrote:

> Hi Mike, I use Postfix with Spamassassin, but do several things up 
> front. In the main.cf file I block SMTP handshakes from quite a few 
> countries with:
> 
> smtpd_client_restrictions =
>         permit_mynetworks,
>         check_client_access hash:/etc/postfix/access,
>         reject_unknown_client,
>         reject_rbl_client sbl-xbl.spamhaus.org,
>         reject_rbl_client zen.spamhaus.org,
>         reject_rbl_client ae.countries.nerd.dk,
>         reject_rbl_client am.countries.nerd.dk,
>         reject_rbl_client ar.countries.nerd.dk,
>         reject_rbl_client ao.countries.nerd.dk,
>         reject_rbl_client ad.countries.nerd.dk,
> and many more for countries I do not have friends / clients in. Of 
> course the biggest offenders were CN, HK, KR, IT, JP, MX, and some 
> former USSR countries. Notice the unknown client and spamhaus blocking. 
> The good thing about this is there is little processing on my end as the 
> message is never accepted. I also have some header restrictions for a 
> few specific offenders and former addresses I had hosted - this too 
> prevents processing at my end. I have some class B and C networks listed 
> in the access list to block when they are problematic senders who pay 
> enough money that their US ISP will not block them.
> 
> My domain has been out there since 1996, so there are many blasts to it 
> hourly. I have the same email address now for about 6 or 7 years at my 
> domain and now only get about 0 - 2 spams per day with these measures.

Grin... sounds like my own setup and results. Highly recommended. Get 
FuzzyOCR and RulesDuJour plugins for spamassassin and add to the fun.


From admin at linuxtechdaily.com  Thu Dec  6 15:35:01 2007
From: admin at linuxtechdaily.com (Rich Hughes)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 15:35:01 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Sourceforge sell out?
Message-ID: <47585CF5.7010000@linuxtechdaily.com>

Have you guys seen this:

http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php

If you host a project at Sourceforge you can now sell support, and they
keep 10%. I've read a bunch of comments where people are getting their
panties all up in a bunch about this, saying SF has sold out. I don't
see the downside, and I'd be happy to see people make money off the
software they put up.

I mainly lurk here, and was interested in what you guys thought. The
conversations have been very interesting and informative in here for the
last few months.

Take care,
Rich H


From radkins at impelind.com  Thu Dec  6 15:36:46 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 15:36:46 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Sourceforge sell out?
In-Reply-To: <47585CF5.7010000@linuxtechdaily.com>
Message-ID: <20071206204358.A1BBE14143@impelind.com>

I see absolutely no problem with it.

You can make money off your project, they continue to host your project and
provide a strong central contact location as well as some level of back-up
to your project.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with them receiving a cut of the take as
they are providing a very useful service.

It's not like they are saying, "If you offer support you must now pay use
$1,500 a month, every month or we erase all traces of your project forever."

They are acting like a consignment house. They get paid if and when you get
paid.

I have trouble seeing why anyone should have a problem with that.

-Rob



> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Rich Hughes
> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 3:35 PM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: [mdlug] Sourceforge sell out?
> 
> Have you guys seen this:
> 
> http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php
> 
> If you host a project at Sourceforge you can now sell 
> support, and they keep 10%. I've read a bunch of comments 
> where people are getting their panties all up in a bunch 
> about this, saying SF has sold out. I don't see the downside, 
> and I'd be happy to see people make money off the software 
> they put up.
> 
> I mainly lurk here, and was interested in what you guys 
> thought. The conversations have been very interesting and 
> informative in here for the last few months.
> 
> Take care,
> Rich H
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 



From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Tue Dec  4 17:06:37 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 17:06:37 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Linux is "greener"
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACED@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACED@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <4755CF6D.9070004@hotpop.com>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>> From: Jeff Hanson
> 
>> Not only is Linux faster on old systems but there isn't any of the
>> licensing hassles and restrictions that accompany the M$ "Software
>> Donation Program"
> 
>  Well, it certainly *can* be faster, and usually is. But recent distros of
> Linux can be pretty darn memory-hungry. The latest Ubuntu is a bit sluggish
> on our "new-to-us" laptop with 384MB of RAM. I'm working on ways to trim the
> fat off; I might look at Xubuntu.
> 
>  That being said, Linux's 'sweet spot' seems to be around 512MB of RAM. For
> XP, it seems to need about double that, 1GB.

Ah, you just don't have enough applications open -- especially
web-browsers!



> 
>  Of course, I recall when Linux with 16MB RAM was faster than Windows with
> 32MB... :->

I remember when 16MB of RAM was good to run 50 users simultaneously...





From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Thu Dec  6 16:41:41 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 16:41:41 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Linux is "greener"
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.0.81.0712061518301.26893@rich.rrclark.net>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACFA@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Rich Clark <rrclark at rrclark.net>

> Even Windows would be sluggish with only 384MB RAM. You might want to get 
> a stick of RAM for that machine since it's pretty cheap for a GB.

 It's a Dell Inspiron 2650; it can only handle 512MB max. I already bumped it up
from 256MB. Replacing the second memory module is much harder, though... I'd have
to literally dismantle the entire laptop.

 Not a project I'm likely to tackle anytime soon. I have many other projects
demanding my attention, most of them non-computer-related.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                               (313) 227-2317

 "The meek can *have* the Earth. The rest of us are going to the stars!"
                        - Robert A. Heinlein
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From radkins at impelind.com  Thu Dec  6 16:47:35 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 16:47:35 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Linux is "greener"
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACFA@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <20071206215447.46E3F14143@impelind.com>


> 
> > From: Rich Clark <rrclark at rrclark.net>
> 
> > Even Windows would be sluggish with only 384MB RAM. You 
> might want to 
> > get a stick of RAM for that machine since it's pretty cheap 
> for a GB.
> 
>  It's a Dell Inspiron 2650; it can only handle 512MB max. I 
> already bumped it up from 256MB. Replacing the second memory 
> module is much harder, though... I'd have to literally 
> dismantle the entire laptop.
> 
>  Not a project I'm likely to tackle anytime soon. I have many 
> other projects demanding my attention, most of them 
> non-computer-related.
> 

	It's not that hard.

	You have to lift up the keyboard, which is very easy to do, once you
have done it enough times on enough laptops.

	To do that, you might need to open up the laptop, flat like a book,
gently pry the plastic bits that are attached to the base of the laptop and
cover/protect the hinge.

	Once that is up, there are likely two screws holding the keyboard in
place, lift that up and then you can unscrew the EMI shielding and reveal
the RAM.

	This shouldn't take more than 5 minutes to do.

	-Rob



From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Thu Dec  6 17:04:45 2007
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 17:04:45 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] AntiSpam Tools
References: <001e01c837b1$c3001240$6401a8c0@AMD2000>
Message-ID: <00bd01c83854$03393bf0$6401a8c0@AMD2000>

Thanks for all the replies!

Here's a summary of the responses so far:
1. Spamassassin (with FuzzyOCR & RulesDuJour)
2. ASSP
3. dnsbl via spamhaus
4. bogofilter
5. Russian mafia

I think I'm going to steer clear of option #5 for obvious reasons.  I've 
setup Spamassassin a long time ago, and I remember having to do quite a bit 
of tweaking to get it working well.  I think I'm gonna try ASSP this time. 
Thanks again for all the replies.

-Mike


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael ORourke" <mrorourke at earthlink.net>
To: "MDLUG's main mailing list" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 9:43 PM
Subject: [mdlug] AntiSpam Tools


> Sorry... I know this discussion came up yet again recently.  What are the
> latest anti-spam tools people are successfully running on their own mail
> domains?
>
> -Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.14/1172 - Release Date: 
> 12/5/2007 8:41 AM
>
> 



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Dec  6 17:29:24 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 17:29:24 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Gift ideas
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712061429q24da9cb9t6b0ecbb6490d553@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2007/12/05/geek-gift-guide-2007/

I love the wifi shirt.


From tesral at comcast.net  Thu Dec  6 17:51:11 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 17:51:11 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Linux is "greener"
In-Reply-To: <20071206215447.46E3F14143@impelind.com>
References: <20071206215447.46E3F14143@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <47587CDF.1070700@comcast.net>

Robert Adkins wrote:
>>> From: Rich Clark <rrclark at rrclark.net>
>>>       
>>> Even Windows would be sluggish with only 384MB RAM. You 
>>>       
>> might want to 
>>     
>>> get a stick of RAM for that machine since it's pretty cheap 
>>>       
>> for a GB.
>>
>>  It's a Dell Inspiron 2650; it can only handle 512MB max. I 
>> already bumped it up from 256MB. Replacing the second memory 
>> module is much harder, though... I'd have to literally 
>> dismantle the entire laptop.
>>
>>  Not a project I'm likely to tackle anytime soon. I have many 
>> other projects demanding my attention, most of them 
>> non-computer-related.
>>
>>     
>
> 	It's not that hard.
>
> 	You have to lift up the keyboard, which is very easy to do, once you
> have done it enough times on enough laptops.
>
> 	To do that, you might need to open up the laptop, flat like a book,
> gently pry the plastic bits that are attached to the base of the laptop and
> cover/protect the hinge.
>
> 	Once that is up, there are likely two screws holding the keyboard in
> place, lift that up and then you can unscrew the EMI shielding and reveal
> the RAM.
>
> 	This shouldn't take more than 5 minutes to do.
>   

Find and download the maintenance manual, it saves a great deal of
headaches.  Even different models from different manufacturers are
different.  The screws you need to take off can be in odd locations. 
Some parts need to move before other parts.


-- 
Garry AKA --Phoenix-- Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com


From wolfger at gmail.com  Thu Dec  6 18:51:18 2007
From: wolfger at gmail.com (Wolfger)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 18:51:18 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Sourceforge sell out?
In-Reply-To: <20071206204358.A1BBE14143@impelind.com>
References: <47585CF5.7010000@linuxtechdaily.com>
	<20071206204358.A1BBE14143@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <3b00b3330712061551n6a7b4aa4hf0687fb6e0ee0e3d@mail.gmail.com>

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

On Dec 6, 2007 3:36 PM, Robert Adkins <radkins at impelind.com> wrote:
> I see absolutely no problem with it.
>
> You can make money off your project, they continue to host your project and
> provide a strong central contact location as well as some level of back-up
> to your project.
>
> There is absolutely nothing wrong with them receiving a cut of the take as
> they are providing a very useful service.
>
> It's not like they are saying, "If you offer support you must now pay use
> $1,500 a month, every month or we erase all traces of your project forever."
>
> They are acting like a consignment house. They get paid if and when you get
> paid.
>
> I have trouble seeing why anyone should have a problem with that.
>
> -Rob
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org
> > [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Rich Hughes
> > Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 3:35 PM
> > To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> > Subject: [mdlug] Sourceforge sell out?
> >
> > Have you guys seen this:
> >
> > http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php
> >
> > If you host a project at Sourceforge you can now sell
> > support, and they keep 10%. I've read a bunch of comments
> > where people are getting their panties all up in a bunch
> > about this, saying SF has sold out. I don't see the downside,
> > and I'd be happy to see people make money off the software
> > they put up.
> >
> > I mainly lurk here, and was interested in what you guys
> > thought. The conversations have been very interesting and
> > informative in here for the last few months.
> >
> > Take care,
> > Rich H
> > _______________________________________________
> > mdlug mailing list
> > mdlug at mdlug.org
> > http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>



-- 
Wolfger
http://wolfger.wordpress.com/
AOL IM: wolf4coyot
Yahoo!Messenger: wolfgersilberbaer


From rrclark at rrclark.net  Thu Dec  6 19:05:02 2007
From: rrclark at rrclark.net (Rich Clark <rrclark@rrclark.net>)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 19:05:02 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Linux is "greener"
In-Reply-To: <20071206215447.46E3F14143@impelind.com>
References: <20071206215447.46E3F14143@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.0.81.0712061901590.26893@rich.rrclark.net>

On Thu, 6 Dec 2007, Robert Adkins wrote:

> 
> > 
> > > From: Rich Clark <rrclark at rrclark.net>
> > 
> > > Even Windows would be sluggish with only 384MB RAM. You 
> > might want to 
> > > get a stick of RAM for that machine since it's pretty cheap 
> > for a GB.
> > 
> >  It's a Dell Inspiron 2650; it can only handle 512MB max. I 
> > already bumped it up from 256MB. Replacing the second memory 
> > module is much harder, though... I'd have to literally 
> > dismantle the entire laptop.
> > 
> >  Not a project I'm likely to tackle anytime soon. I have many 
> > other projects demanding my attention, most of them 
> > non-computer-related.
> > 
>
> 	It's not that hard.
>
> 	You have to lift up the keyboard, which is very easy to do, once you
> have done it enough times on enough laptops.
>
> 	To do that, you might need to open up the laptop, flat like a book,
> gently pry the plastic bits that are attached to the base of the laptop and
> cover/protect the hinge.
>
> 	Once that is up, there are likely two screws holding the keyboard in
> place, lift that up and then you can unscrew the EMI shielding and reveal
> the RAM.
>
> 	This shouldn't take more than 5 minutes to do.

I confirm; the laptops I have here open up in the same manner. One has a 
slide on the top of the base near the hinges, and you just slide it to the 
right, lift it away, and then pull the keyboard up and back. The other 
laptops access the memory slots through a removable cover panel on the 
bottom of the machine.


From tesral at comcast.net  Thu Dec  6 20:54:42 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 20:54:42 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] doing the Samba.
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380711301902p3a8b653v634d566cbde4e843@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380711301902p3a8b653v634d566cbde4e843@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4758A7E2.1010304@comcast.net>

Does someone have the simple as in ABC method of setting up Samba on my
Linux box to share a single Fat32 drive with my XP box?  Remember KISS. 
Keep It Simple for Stupid.

I have installed Samba on Gate, I figured that would be step one.  The
XP machine is named Faux if that is important.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Dec  6 21:22:14 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 21:22:14 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] doing the Samba.
In-Reply-To: <4758A7E2.1010304@comcast.net>
References: <b67fb0380711301902p3a8b653v634d566cbde4e843@mail.gmail.com>
	<4758A7E2.1010304@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712061822m47052a40iea8d48cd7d21ec29@mail.gmail.com>

On Dec 6, 2007 8:54 PM, Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:
> Does someone have the simple as in ABC method of setting up Samba on my
> Linux box to share a single Fat32 drive with my XP box?  Remember KISS.
> Keep It Simple for Stupid.
>
> I have installed Samba on Gate, I figured that would be step one.  The
> XP machine is named Faux if that is important.

If you don't have a login server to keep track of accounts and
passwords, you can set up an unauthenticated peer-peer config.  On
Ubuntu, in /etc/samba/smb.conf:

[global]
   guest ok = yes
   map to guest = bad user
   guest account = nobody
   invalid users = root

This lets anyone access the shares - XP user without an account,
anyone on your LAN, wireless, and the entire Internet if you don't
have a firewall.  You still have to set up a share for the drive.

[sharename]
path = /media/fat32drive
available = yes
browsable = yes
public = yes
writable = yes


From danno at umich.edu  Thu Dec  6 21:35:38 2007
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 21:35:38 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Linux is "greener"
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.0.81.0712061518301.26893@rich.rrclark.net>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACED@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<alpine.LRH.0.81.0712061518301.26893@rich.rrclark.net>
Message-ID: <20071207023538.GA80675@maniac.deathstar.org>

On Thu, Dec 06, 2007 at 03:20:21PM -0500, Rich Clark <rrclark at rrclark.net> wrote:
> 
> Even Windows would be sluggish with only 384MB RAM. You might want to get 
> a stick of RAM for that machine since it's pretty cheap for a GB.
> 
> >  That being said, Linux's 'sweet spot' seems to be around 512MB of RAM. For
> > XP, it seems to need about double that, 1GB.
> >
> >  Of course, I recall when Linux with 16MB RAM was faster than Windows with
> > 32MB... :->
> 
> I fear that Linux will be faster on anything when compared to running 
> Windows.  Windows == bloatware.

I run XP on a P3-600 with 256M ram.  I have disabled various
components (notably themes) to get there, but the system is very
usable for web browsing, mail, general office apps, etc.

I could also do this with linux, of course - but i would similarly have
to strip out a bunch of gunk that wouldn't fit (like, KDE or Gnome).

the "windows = bloat" meme is certainly based on lots of truth - but 
the modern linux desktop is playing a great game of catch-up.

now, fvwm on a 25MHz sparcstation IPC with a whopping 16MB ram under
SunOS 4.1.3...that was quite responsive and definitely not bloated.
ALthough sadly lacking in most of the GUI applications we take for
granted nowadays.

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From tmorris at ugs.com  Thu Dec  6 21:38:21 2007
From: tmorris at ugs.com (Morris, Tim)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 20:38:21 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] SUSPECT: RE:  Sourceforge sell out?
In-Reply-To: <3b00b3330712061551n6a7b4aa4hf0687fb6e0ee0e3d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47585CF5.7010000@linuxtechdaily.com><20071206204358.A1BBE14143@impelind.com>
	<3b00b3330712061551n6a7b4aa4hf0687fb6e0ee0e3d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E20407D44D@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>

But it's not free!!!

OMG!!!!

It must be EVIL!!!

--  Tim Morris - UGS PLM Software

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Wolfger
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 6:51 PM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Sourceforge sell out?

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

On Dec 6, 2007 3:36 PM, Robert Adkins <radkins at impelind.com> wrote:
> I see absolutely no problem with it.
>
> You can make money off your project, they continue to host your
project and
> provide a strong central contact location as well as some level of
back-up
> to your project.
>
> There is absolutely nothing wrong with them receiving a cut of the
take as
> they are providing a very useful service.
>
> It's not like they are saying, "If you offer support you must now pay
use
> $1,500 a month, every month or we erase all traces of your project
forever."
>
> They are acting like a consignment house. They get paid if and when
you get
> paid.
>
> I have trouble seeing why anyone should have a problem with that.
>
> -Rob
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org
> > [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Rich Hughes
> > Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 3:35 PM
> > To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> > Subject: [mdlug] Sourceforge sell out?
> >
> > Have you guys seen this:
> >
> > http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php
> >
> > If you host a project at Sourceforge you can now sell
> > support, and they keep 10%. I've read a bunch of comments
> > where people are getting their panties all up in a bunch
> > about this, saying SF has sold out. I don't see the downside,
> > and I'd be happy to see people make money off the software
> > they put up.
> >
> > I mainly lurk here, and was interested in what you guys
> > thought. The conversations have been very interesting and
> > informative in here for the last few months.
> >
> > Take care,
> > Rich H
> > _______________________________________________
> > mdlug mailing list
> > mdlug at mdlug.org
> > http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>



-- 
Wolfger
http://wolfger.wordpress.com/
AOL IM: wolf4coyot
Yahoo!Messenger: wolfgersilberbaer
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From tmorris at ugs.com  Thu Dec  6 21:34:01 2007
From: tmorris at ugs.com (Morris, Tim)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 20:34:01 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] Remotely Use Linux
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACEA@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <1196205102.8812.5.camel@bemus-tony>
	<41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACEA@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E20407D44C@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>

You can get an installer/uninstaller from here:

<http://www.kood.org/terminal-server-patch/>

One thing to keep in mind... I am told that the XP license only allows a
single user (haven't read it :), therefore using any of the termserver
patches to allow concurrent logins would (theoretically) violate the
EULA. I've been told this, I have not looked into it at all, since I
don't use the patch.

--  Tim Morris - UGS PLM Software

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Ingles, Raymond
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 1:06 PM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Remotely Use Linux

I discovered a trick for Windows XP. Normally, it does not allow anyone
to be logged
onto the desktop if someone is using the Remote Desktop feature; indeed,
it will kick
off anyone using the desktop if a remote connection is set up.

 However... beta versions of XP SP2 did not impose such a limit.
Googling for "Remote
Desktop XP Concurrent Sessions" will turn up copies of the beta
termsrv.dll and how
to apply it.

 Now the kids can be playing web games or whatever on the machine while
my wife does
work for her bakery on the laptop. Linux has a nice RDP client... :->

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                              (313) 227-2317

 "You don't *understand* quantum mechanics, you just *get used to it*."
                          - Richard Feynman
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only.
It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the
named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it,
or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify
us immediately and then destroy it.
_______________________________________________
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http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Dec  6 21:50:27 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 21:50:27 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Linux is "greener"
In-Reply-To: <20071207023538.GA80675@maniac.deathstar.org>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACED@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<alpine.LRH.0.81.0712061518301.26893@rich.rrclark.net>
	<20071207023538.GA80675@maniac.deathstar.org>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712061850v3fc5326cu4a9144bd5b4d6111@mail.gmail.com>

My standard practice RAM minimums for Firefox and OOo:

Win98SE:  256MB (VMware, 128MB native)
XP SP2:  512MB (VMware, 384MB native)
Xubuntu:  128MB
Ubuntu:  256MB

Actual experience depends CPU and hard drive performance because of
swap.  I deal with a lot of older hardware so a less responsive system
is tolerable.  In practice, Win98SE is faster than Xubuntu with
multimedia but the fundamental weaknesses of the Windows architecture
means practically no security and any driver problem will lock the
system.


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Thu Dec  6 15:14:44 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 15:14:44 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] AntiSpam Tools
In-Reply-To: <20071206132413.E740A14143@impelind.com>
References: <20071206132413.E740A14143@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <47585834.1010509@hotpop.com>

Robert Adkins wrote:
>> I like the Russian spam solution.
> 
> Snip
> 
>> The Russian solution:  All of this nasty spam stopped one day 
>> within hours after someone dumped his corpse in an alley.
>>
> 
> 	I read about this case. It wasn't exactly altruism that won the day.
> 
> 	The death has been linked to Russian organized crime. It appears
> that regardless of what you do, if you actually ignore those "Pay us
> protection, or else" statements from Russian Organized Crime, they will
> quite brutally, physically beat you to death.

But of course, if you don't deal with shady people,
and work only with legitimate businesses (such as
the other Russian-language spam I described), then
you really don't have to worry about dealing with
organized criminals or protection money, do you.

By the way, the "Russian Mafia" is mostly a figment
of the western journalists' imagination.  When you
have a population which for decades was taught that
anyone who makes a profit is a criminal, then any
successful businessman is reflexively branded as
mafia by most Russians who were born before 1970
or so.  Most organized crime in Russia is political,
not economic.

While there are some shake-down operations, and
apparently some kidnapping of women who are sold
into enslavement as prostitutes, the overwhelming
majority of this activity is centered in Ukraine,
not Russia.

In Russia, the closest equivalent is large bribes
for government officials.  However, this is not
as bad nor corrupt as it sounds to most Americans --
typically (and historically for centuries), Russian
bureaucrats were very poorly paid -- their government
salaries were meager (if they were even paid at all
by the Czar's government), as they were EXPECTED to
live primarily from bribes.


What I find very interesting, is that, in three
visits to Russia, people who I have heard called
"mafia" were actually going out of their way to
aid and protect tourists.



> 
> 	Nobody, not even a spam king deserves that.
> 

Really?

The productivity losses that all of us incur for THEIR
benefit is nothing short of slavery.  I can think of
nothing more fitting than death for those who enslave
others.

> 	-Rob
> 




From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Thu Dec  6 16:28:54 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 16:28:54 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Sourceforge sell out?
In-Reply-To: <47585CF5.7010000@linuxtechdaily.com>
References: <47585CF5.7010000@linuxtechdaily.com>
Message-ID: <47586996.4040103@hotpop.com>

Rich Hughes wrote:
> Have you guys seen this:
> 
> http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php
> 
> If you host a project at Sourceforge you can now sell support, and they
> keep 10%. I've read a bunch of comments where people are getting their
> panties all up in a bunch about this, saying SF has sold out. I don't
> see the downside, and I'd be happy to see people make money off the
> software they put up.

Evidently these people believe that

1) People with expertise in supporting application X shouldn't
    have a venue to sell their services
and

2) That it doesn't cost real-world money to host the
    sourceforge website, which is by now VERY substantial
    in size and bandwidth usage, neither of which is free
    in the real world.
> 
> I mainly lurk here, and was interested in what you guys thought. The
> conversations have been very interesting and informative in here for the
> last few months.

I think the people complaining about others selling support
services, and sourceforge getting a commission are a bunch
of whiners living in their parents' basements.




From radkins at impelind.com  Fri Dec  7 08:10:28 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 08:10:28 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] doing the Samba.
In-Reply-To: <4758A7E2.1010304@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20071207131741.E7CB614143@impelind.com>

What distro are you using?

OpenSuSe has a sweet Samba configuration element in Yast2. I believe that it
will also allow you to setup Samba to act as a Windows Domain Controller.

Barring that, Webmin has a very easy to grok applet for configuring Samba.

It is seriously, one of the simplest of services to setup.

The only thing you need to really be aware of is that you might setup users
to have access to Share X. They would still need to be in a UNIX group that
has access to the files/folders on S
Share X.

-Rob

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Garry Stahl
> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 8:55 PM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: [mdlug] doing the Samba.
> 
> Does someone have the simple as in ABC method of setting up 
> Samba on my Linux box to share a single Fat32 drive with my 
> XP box?  Remember KISS. 
> Keep It Simple for Stupid.
> 
> I have installed Samba on Gate, I figured that would be step 
> one.  The XP machine is named Faux if that is important.
> 
> --
> Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.
> 
> Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes Star Trek mort. 
> Viva la Star Trek admiraetur The Olde Phoenix Inn 
> Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 



From radkins at impelind.com  Fri Dec  7 08:11:33 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 08:11:33 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] SUSPECT: RE:  Sourceforge sell out?
In-Reply-To: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E20407D44D@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
Message-ID: <20071207131846.0C08414143@impelind.com>


That is honestly, one of the two sentiments that many in the OSS community
have that tends to get my boxers all bunched up.

-Rob

> 
> But it's not free!!!
> 
> OMG!!!!
> 
> It must be EVIL!!!
> 
> --  Tim Morris - UGS PLM Software
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Wolfger
> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 6:51 PM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Sourceforge sell out?
> 
> Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.
> 
> On Dec 6, 2007 3:36 PM, Robert Adkins <radkins at impelind.com> wrote:
> > I see absolutely no problem with it.
> >
> > You can make money off your project, they continue to host your
> project and
> > provide a strong central contact location as well as some level of
> back-up
> > to your project.
> >
> > There is absolutely nothing wrong with them receiving a cut of the
> take as
> > they are providing a very useful service.
> >
> > It's not like they are saying, "If you offer support you 
> must now pay
> use
> > $1,500 a month, every month or we erase all traces of your project
> forever."
> >
> > They are acting like a consignment house. They get paid if and when
> you get
> > paid.
> >
> > I have trouble seeing why anyone should have a problem with that.
> >
> > -Rob
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org
> > > [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Rich Hughes
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 3:35 PM
> > > To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> > > Subject: [mdlug] Sourceforge sell out?
> > >
> > > Have you guys seen this:
> > >
> > > http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php
> > >
> > > If you host a project at Sourceforge you can now sell 
> support, and 
> > > they keep 10%. I've read a bunch of comments where people are 
> > > getting their panties all up in a bunch about this, saying SF has 
> > > sold out. I don't see the downside, and I'd be happy to 
> see people 
> > > make money off the software they put up.
> > >
> > > I mainly lurk here, and was interested in what you guys 
> thought. The 
> > > conversations have been very interesting and informative 
> in here for 
> > > the last few months.
> > >
> > > Take care,
> > > Rich H
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > mdlug mailing list
> > > mdlug at mdlug.org
> > > http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > mdlug mailing list
> > mdlug at mdlug.org
> > http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> >
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Wolfger
> http://wolfger.wordpress.com/
> AOL IM: wolf4coyot
> Yahoo!Messenger: wolfgersilberbaer
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Fri Dec  7 09:59:52 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 09:59:52 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Linux is "greener"
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.0.81.0712061901590.26893@rich.rrclark.net>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACFD@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Rich Clark <rrclark at rrclark.net>

> I confirm; the laptops I have here open up in the same manner. One has a 
> slide on the top of the base near the hinges, and you just slide it to the 
> right, lift it away, and then pull the keyboard up and back. 

 It's not *quite* that simple with this one. It has two slots, one at the bottom
of the machine (easy to upgrade and I already had a chip that would work) and also
one deep inside, under the keyboard - and it looks like you have to yank the video
card, too, to get at it. (This laptop is unusual in that it has a removeable video
card.)

 Don't get me wrong - I've done this before on another laptop. It's hardly
impossible, but I'm cautious; I need to make sure I have time to devote to the
process if something goes wrong. (Changing out a broken screen in my Palm Treo
took a few weeks because the connection was *much* more finicky than it should
have been.) We have four kids and the holidays are fast approaching.

 When and if I bump up the memory, I will also put in a 16MB video card (to
replace the 8MB one in there now) - but that'll have to wait until I have
some xmas money to play with...

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                           (313) 227-2317

   Microsoft Windows - Dissatisfaction guaranteed.
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From admin at linuxtechdaily.com  Fri Dec  7 10:03:59 2007
From: admin at linuxtechdaily.com (Rich Hughes)
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 10:03:59 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Processors and Thugs
Message-ID: <475960DF.4090208@linuxtechdaily.com>

Hey everyone,

I don't know that this is appropriate for the list or not, it should be
okay but just let me know if it isn't. I can take it.

I'm reviewing a barebones kit for my site. The processor is a Pentium 4
3.4GHz. I'm writing the review from the perspective that one benefit to
using linux is you can use older, thus cheaper, technology and have it
fly. This kit came with an awesome motherboard, 1 gig of ram, the
processor that I mentioned, case + 300W power supply (low, but has been
solid), wireless mouse and kb, cd rom and floppy for $189. I feel that
this is a powerhouse machine. To get it up and running, I installed
opensuse 10.3, and everything flies on it. With ram so cheap I can
easily dump more in and this thing will move even faster.

My question to the group is this: am I right that for everyday desktop
usage that this is a great processor? I'm looking at it related to an
earlier thread here. Sure, dual and quad core are great, but if you want
a great system at a low price then this is the way to go. Us linux users
are a tough bunch, though, and I don't want to post this review and have
some smart thugs beat me up and getting all "LOL P4". Is there that much
of a disadvantage using a P4 as oppossed to later dual and quad cores
when looking at what typical users do (surf the web, burn movies, etc...) ?

Sorry for the novel. That is why I don't post much here. I'm long winded.

Thanks,
Rich H


From tesral at comcast.net  Fri Dec  7 10:13:16 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 10:13:16 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Processors and Thugs
In-Reply-To: <475960DF.4090208@linuxtechdaily.com>
References: <475960DF.4090208@linuxtechdaily.com>
Message-ID: <4759630C.8060300@comcast.net>

Rich Hughes wrote:
> This kit came with an awesome motherboard, 1 gig of ram, the
> processor that I mentioned, case + 300W power supply (low, but has been
> solid), wireless mouse and kb, cd rom and floppy for $189. I feel that
> this is a powerhouse machine. To get it up and running, I installed
> opensuse 10.3, and everything flies on it. With ram so cheap I can
> easily dump more in and this thing will move even faster.
>
> My question to the group is this: am I right that for everyday desktop
> usage that this is a great processor? 

I'm still cranking out on a 1.8 gig.  On the principle that more is
better, yea, for desktop work that will soar like an Eagle (Provided you
don't put a Vista anvil on it.)  I wouldn't complain about that system
at all.

Normal desktop work doesn't require huge amounts of horsepower.  It's
nice to have and I don't know anyone that would turn it down. 

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Fri Dec  7 10:16:47 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 10:16:47 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Processors and Thugs
In-Reply-To: <475960DF.4090208@linuxtechdaily.com>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBACFF@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Rich Hughes

> This kit came with an awesome motherboard, 1 gig of ram, the

 You don't mention what kind of video processor it has - Intel? Nvidia? ATI?
Other? That can have *some* effect, depending on precisely what the user wants
to do.

> My question to the group is this: am I right that for everyday desktop
> usage that this is a great processor?

 That's plenty fast, so long as the user isn't running Vista. :->

 Pro or semi-pro video production or serious gaming needs more than that,
but general home-movie work and such would be fine. I get by with less CPU
than that, effectively. Those are the only things that really strain any CPU
made in the last five years.

 Well, except for HD video. That wants at least a 2+GHz processor, and ideally
a good video card with dedicated hardware, but with 3.4GHz it should play an
HD video even if it's only got Intel video.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                         (313) 227-2317

 "If decisive but massive killing actually stopped the other side,
      Israel would be as peaceful as Omaha by now." - elmegil
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From micorral at comcast.net  Fri Dec  7 10:25:30 2007
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 10:25:30 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Processors and Thugs
In-Reply-To: <4759630C.8060300@comcast.net>
References: <475960DF.4090208@linuxtechdaily.com>
	<4759630C.8060300@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712071013250.2585@banana.sluggo.net>

2007-12-07, Monsieur Garry Stahl a ecrit:
> I'm still cranking out on a 1.8 gig.

1.8GHz? Luxury! My main PC is still a 1.2GHz Athlon that I've had for
over 5 years. I keep trying to come up with reasons for why I should
upgrade this box that works fine and does everything I need it to do.
But I still can't really justify upgrading.

> Normal desktop work doesn't require huge amounts of horsepower.  It's
> nice to have and I don't know anyone that would turn it down.

And Linux requires even less horsepower, if you avoid GNOME and KDE.
My box running WindowMaker under Fedora 7 is snappier than more
powerful machines I've used that ran Windows. A 3.0+GHz P4 would
be more than good enough for any Linux desktop.

Michael


From danno at umich.edu  Fri Dec  7 11:23:02 2007
From: danno at umich.edu (Dan Pritts)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 11:23:02 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Processors and Thugs
In-Reply-To: <475960DF.4090208@linuxtechdaily.com>
References: <475960DF.4090208@linuxtechdaily.com>
Message-ID: <20071207162300.GA55136@maniac.deathstar.org>

On Fri, Dec 07, 2007 at 10:03:59AM -0500, Rich Hughes wrote:
> My question to the group is this: am I right that for everyday desktop
> usage that this is a great processor? I'm looking at it related to an

It's a fine, reasonably fast CPU and plenty for any "everyday desktop
use" I can think of; it won't be super fast with video or photo
editing but it won't be bad, either (and memory is really the
constraint there).

It is quite power-hungry, even when idle; a similarly priced AMD
chip might be a better financial bet depending on expected usage
patterns (extra electricity and summer a/c costs).  

Your cheapo kit almost certainly includes a low-efficiency power
supply; consider recommending an upgrade for similar reasons.


The $200 wal-mart linux PC sounds awfully attractive too.  It isn't
nearly as full-featured as whatever you're reviewing, but it uses
a trivial amount of power and is apparently super-quiet.  I bet
your barebones sounds like a jet engine.

danno
--
dan pritts
danno at umich.edu
734-929-9770


From painbank at gmail.com  Fri Dec  7 12:30:57 2007
From: painbank at gmail.com (Rich Elswick)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 12:30:57 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] AntiSpam Tools
In-Reply-To: <47585834.1010509@hotpop.com>
References: <20071206132413.E740A14143@impelind.com>
	<47585834.1010509@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <cafacd830712070930x3fc3e492u99aa74e1c90c490a@mail.gmail.com>

politics is economics errr economics is politics... oh hell, just ask Oprah.
:)

On Dec 6, 2007 3:14 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis3 at hotpop.com> wrote:

> Robert Adkins wrote:
> >> I like the Russian spam solution.
> >
> > Snip
> >
> >> The Russian solution:  All of this nasty spam stopped one day
> >> within hours after someone dumped his corpse in an alley.
> >>
> >
> >       I read about this case. It wasn't exactly altruism that won the
> day.
> >
> >       The death has been linked to Russian organized crime. It appears
> > that regardless of what you do, if you actually ignore those "Pay us
> > protection, or else" statements from Russian Organized Crime, they will
> > quite brutally, physically beat you to death.
>
> But of course, if you don't deal with shady people,
> and work only with legitimate businesses (such as
> the other Russian-language spam I described), then
> you really don't have to worry about dealing with
> organized criminals or protection money, do you.
>
> By the way, the "Russian Mafia" is mostly a figment
> of the western journalists' imagination.  When you
> have a population which for decades was taught that
> anyone who makes a profit is a criminal, then any
> successful businessman is reflexively branded as
> mafia by most Russians who were born before 1970
> or so.  Most organized crime in Russia is political,
> not economic.
>
> While there are some shake-down operations, and
> apparently some kidnapping of women who are sold
> into enslavement as prostitutes, the overwhelming
> majority of this activity is centered in Ukraine,
> not Russia.
>
> In Russia, the closest equivalent is large bribes
> for government officials.  However, this is not
> as bad nor corrupt as it sounds to most Americans --
> typically (and historically for centuries), Russian
> bureaucrats were very poorly paid -- their government
> salaries were meager (if they were even paid at all
> by the Czar's government), as they were EXPECTED to
> live primarily from bribes.
>
>
> What I find very interesting, is that, in three
> visits to Russia, people who I have heard called
> "mafia" were actually going out of their way to
> aid and protect tourists.
>
>
>
> >
> >       Nobody, not even a spam king deserves that.
> >
>
> Really?
>
> The productivity losses that all of us incur for THEIR
> benefit is nothing short of slavery.  I can think of
> nothing more fitting than death for those who enslave
> others.
>
> >       -Rob
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>



-- 
Rich Elswick
http://www.moyaentertainment.com

<a
href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/scacast"><img src="
http://feeds.feedburner.com/scacast.gif" style="border:0" alt="The Pain Bank
- SCA and WMA"/></a>


From mdlug3 at arb.net  Fri Dec  7 12:31:28 2007
From: mdlug3 at arb.net (Dave Arbogast)
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 12:31:28 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] AntiSpam Tools
In-Reply-To: <47585834.1010509@hotpop.com>
References: <20071206132413.E740A14143@impelind.com>
	<47585834.1010509@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <47598370.2040005@arb.net>



Aaron Kulkis wrote:

>
>While there are some shake-down operations, and
>apparently some kidnapping of women who are sold
>into enslavement as prostitutes, the overwhelming
>majority of this activity is centered in Ukraine,
>not Russia.
>  
>
Why do you think this ? Have you ever been to the Ukraine ? I hold a 
muli-entry Ukrainian VISA as my wife was born there under "Soviet 
Times". It is true they have about the worst birth rate imbalance in the 
world with about 54% girls, it is nearly hopeless for a woman over 25 
there who is not married as the men who survived the Soviet / Ukrainian 
military are either married or not interested in women. So, yes many of 
them are eager to get out of the Ukraine and often they are tricked into 
such, But the most expensive city in the world is Moscow. The populous 
of Moscow did not all get an income boost to match this new distinction, 
so Russian women are often very eager to come to the west too. Look on 
the mail order bride sites for eastern Europe and you'll see more 
Russians than Ukrainians.

-dave


From driveray at ameritech.net  Fri Dec  7 12:38:00 2007
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 12:38:00 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Processors and Thugs
In-Reply-To: <20071207162300.GA55136@maniac.deathstar.org>
References: <475960DF.4090208@linuxtechdaily.com>
	<20071207162300.GA55136@maniac.deathstar.org>
Message-ID: <475984F8.2070409@ameritech.net>

Dan Pritts wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 07, 2007 at 10:03:59AM -0500, Rich Hughes wrote:
>> My question to the group is this: am I right that for everyday desktop
>> usage that this is a great processor? I'm looking at it related to an
> 
> It's a fine, reasonably fast CPU and plenty for any "everyday desktop
> use" I can think of; it won't be super fast with video or photo
> editing but it won't be bad, either (and memory is really the
> constraint there).
> 
> It is quite power-hungry, even when idle;

This is my main criticism of the P4 line (inc. Pentium-D), with emphasis
on the fact the power hungry= HOT and inefficient.

Referencing and comparing these:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_4>
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_D>
with these:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_M>
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core>
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core_2>

tells a lot, including why the P-4 line is slated to be phased out.

>> am I right that for everyday desktop usage that this is a
>> great processor?

But still, the case, power supply, mobo, CPU, 1GB RAM, kb, mouse, CDRom
and floppy for $189? Hell yes that's a good deal! And no doubt adequate
for most uses. But I would spring for a better power supply before any
other upgrades.

> Your cheapo kit almost certainly includes a low-efficiency power
> supply; consider recommending an upgrade for similar reasons.

Before the cheap PS damages the rest of the system. (It happens, a lot.)

> danno

Raymond McLaughlin



From rkannan at peoplepc.com  Fri Dec  7 13:21:49 2007
From: rkannan at peoplepc.com (R. Kannan)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 13:21:49 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: [mdlug] Processors and Thugs
Message-ID: <19297711.1197051710399.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

>From: "Ingles, Raymond" <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com>
>Sent: Dec 7, 2007 10:16 AM
>To: admin at linuxtechdaily.com, MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
>Subject: Re: [mdlug] Processors and Thugs
>
>
[deleted post..]

> "If decisive but massive killing actually stopped the other side,
>      Israel would be as peaceful as Omaha by now." - elmegil

Interesting quote coming at the heel of the recent mall shootings at Omaha.

________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com


From tesral at comcast.net  Fri Dec  7 13:26:46 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 13:26:46 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Processors and Thugs
In-Reply-To: <19297711.1197051710399.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <19297711.1197051710399.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <47599066.2050202@comcast.net>

R. Kannan wrote:
> Interesting quote coming at the heel of the recent mall shootings at Omaha.
>   

A bit heavy on the Irony

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Fri Dec  7 15:20:42 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 15:20:42 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: C64 anniversary
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712071220t50209d88k660bab42e72c75bd@mail.gmail.com>

Thought some of you old geezers would be interested.  I don't have
much experience with C64 because I followed the Atari and Apple II
paths in my early years.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/ptech/12/07/c64/index.html

There is a Unix-like OS for the C64:
http://lng.sourceforge.net

I wonder if Vista will run on it.  How many floppies that would take?


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Fri Dec  7 15:57:10 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 15:57:10 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: C64 anniversary
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90712071220t50209d88k660bab42e72c75bd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBAD05@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Jeff Hanson

> Thought some of you old geezers would be interested.  I don't have
> much experience with C64 because I followed the Atari and Apple II
> paths in my early years.
> http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/ptech/12/07/c64/index.html


 TI99/4A here. Nice machine in some ways, but... quirky.

> I wonder if Vista will run on it.  How many floppies that would take?

 Well, you wouldn't want to run Home Premium or anything like that. For
just "Vista Home Basic", it wants a "20GB hard drive with at least 15GB
of available space". Let's be generous and assume it only uses 15GB.

 Now, the most common C64 floppies could hold ~170KB of data per side.
So, let's see:

 15GB / 170KB = 92,521.4 floppy sides. So, round up and divide by two
for double-sided floppies, and you've got 46,261 floppies. Now, the data
rate for a 1541 floppy drive, with accelerator software and/or hardware,
could approach 4KB/sec. So, each floppy could be loaded in no less than
42.5 seconds. Assume some overhead, add 5 seconds to pop out the floppy
and either flip it over or exchange it, and you've got around a minute
per floppy. So, it could boot up in a mere 771 hours, or 32 days.

 But, of course, it doesn't *really* use all 15GB. Assuming you just
want it to boot, Vista Home Basic claims it'll run in 512MB of RAM.
Of course, my machine was swapping with a full 1GB, but let's assume
that's the minimum. 512MB/170KB results in a mere 1,543 floppies
(with one empty side), and it would load in just 25 hours.

 Now, making a C64 with that much RAM is left as an exercise for the
completely insane reader.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                                 (313) 227-2317

 "[L]ook at how they describe their customers. For the content industries,
  they're 'consumers'. By contrast, the information technology companies
  talk about 'users'. If you see people as consumers, you control access
  to what you offer... but if you see people as users, you want to give
     them more features and power at cheaper prices." - Mike Godwin
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Fri Dec  7 17:25:17 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 17:25:17 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: C64 anniversary
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBAD05@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <b02c40e90712071220t50209d88k660bab42e72c75bd@mail.gmail.com>
	<41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBAD05@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712071425l72fcb957r9dab2b990d7bf2aa@mail.gmail.com>

On Dec 7, 2007 3:57 PM, Ingles, Raymond <Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com> wrote:
>  Now, making a C64 with that much RAM is left as an exercise for the
> completely insane reader.

I'm not going to bother looking because I'm sure someone with too much
time on their hands has done it somewhere.


From driveray at ameritech.net  Fri Dec  7 17:54:09 2007
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 17:54:09 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: C64 anniversary
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBAD05@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBAD05@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <4759CF11.4050609@ameritech.net>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>> From: Jeff Hanson
> 
>> Thought some of you old geezers would be interested.  I don't have
>> much experience with C64 because I followed the Atari and Apple II
>> paths in my early years.
>> http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/ptech/12/07/c64/index.html
> 
> 
>  TI99/4A here. Nice machine in some ways, but... quirky.
> 
>> I wonder if Vista will run on it.  How many floppies that would take?
> 
>  Well, you wouldn't want to run Home Premium or anything like that. For
> just "Vista Home Basic", it wants a "20GB hard drive with at least 15GB
> of available space". Let's be generous and assume it only uses 15GB.
> 
>  Now, the most common C64 floppies could hold ~170KB of data per side.
> So, let's see:

Thanks for doing the math Ray! My self, I just thought that if they
wanted to add a new circle to hell, for instance for spammers and
phishers, ...


From tesral at comcast.net  Fri Dec  7 23:14:43 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 23:14:43 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: C64 anniversary
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBAD05@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBAD05@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <475A1A33.6070508@comcast.net>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>  Now, making a C64 with that much RAM is left as an exercise for the
> completely insane reader.
>
>   

I know a guy that had nine meg of ram in one.  When you consider the
memory overhead of the average C-64 program that IS insane.  Oh and a 1
gig SCSI drive.


-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From tesral at comcast.net  Fri Dec  7 23:16:10 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 23:16:10 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: C64 anniversary
In-Reply-To: <4759CF11.4050609@ameritech.net>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBAD05@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
	<4759CF11.4050609@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <475A1A8A.8080100@comcast.net>

Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
>
> Thanks for doing the math Ray! My self, I just thought that if they
> wanted to add a new circle to hell, for instance for spammers and
> phishers, ...
>   
We make them load it on a VIC-20, with tapes.


-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From micorral at comcast.net  Sat Dec  8 10:48:50 2007
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 10:48:50 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] OT: CompUSA, R.I.P.
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712081047110.3972@banana.sluggo.net>

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/12/08/BU3ETQI3S.DTL

I'll be looking forward to the close-out sale coming soon.

Michael


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sat Dec  8 12:44:43 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 12:44:43 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: CompUSA, R.I.P.
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712081047110.3972@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712081047110.3972@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712080944r6aa29064x2ba8c855df6ea874@mail.gmail.com>

On Dec 8, 2007 10:48 AM, Michael Corral <micorral at comcast.net> wrote:
> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/12/08/BU3ETQI3S.DTL
>
> I'll be looking forward to the close-out sale coming soon.

The only Michigan store is in Lansing.  In Ohio there are stores in
Cincinnati, Fairlawn, and Dayton.


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Sat Dec  8 14:33:42 2007
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 14:33:42 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: CompUSA, R.I.P.
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712081047110.3972@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712081047110.3972@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <1197142422.3751.5.camel@plumber.site>


On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 10:48 -0500, Michael Corral wrote:
> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/12/08/BU3ETQI3S.DTL
> 
> I'll be looking forward to the close-out sale coming soon.
> 

	I; for one; will not be there. I tried to buy a laptop from them over
the period of a week or so. Every time it went on sale it magically went
out of stock. When it came back into stock it magically went off sale
price. It teed me off so bad I emailed them a copy of the receipt from
the store I did finally buy it from. That and sales/tech people that
just didn't give a rip and it showed. Some things actually come around
to those that deserve them!

Best Regards,
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From tesral at comcast.net  Sat Dec  8 20:10:39 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 20:10:39 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: CompUSA, R.I.P.
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90712080944r6aa29064x2ba8c855df6ea874@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712081047110.3972@banana.sluggo.net>
	<b02c40e90712080944r6aa29064x2ba8c855df6ea874@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <475B408F.7040003@comcast.net>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> The only Michigan store is in Lansing.  In Ohio there are stores in
> Cincinnati, Fairlawn, and Dayton.
>   

When the one in Dearborn closed their closeout prices were still not as
good as Microcenter everyday.

They shall not be missed.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From mdlug3 at arb.net  Sat Dec  8 23:58:38 2007
From: mdlug3 at arb.net (Dave Arbogast)
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 23:58:38 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: CompUSA, R.I.P.
In-Reply-To: <475B408F.7040003@comcast.net>
References: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712081047110.3972@banana.sluggo.net>	<b02c40e90712080944r6aa29064x2ba8c855df6ea874@mail.gmail.com>
	<475B408F.7040003@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <475B75FE.2020504@arb.net>



Garry Stahl wrote:

>Jeff Hanson wrote:
>  
>
>>The only Michigan store is in Lansing.  In Ohio there are stores in
>>Cincinnati, Fairlawn, and Dayton.
>>  
>>    
>>
>
>When the one in Dearborn closed their closeout prices were still not as
>good as Microcenter everyday.
>
>They shall not be missed.
>
>  
>
I also found this to be true... It reminds me of the churn in the 
building supply market - Each new company did better than the sole 
competitor before it -  HQ / Builders Square / Home Depot / Lowes ?  
When CompUSA started, there was to local Microcenter.... who will come 
along after CompUSA is gone to compete with Microcenter ?

-dave


From micorral at comcast.net  Sun Dec  9 00:34:41 2007
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 00:34:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] OT: CompUSA, R.I.P.
In-Reply-To: <475B75FE.2020504@arb.net>
References: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712081047110.3972@banana.sluggo.net>
	<b02c40e90712080944r6aa29064x2ba8c855df6ea874@mail.gmail.com>
	<475B408F.7040003@comcast.net> <475B75FE.2020504@arb.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712090018220.6467@banana.sluggo.net>

2007-12-08, Monsieur Dave Arbogast a ecrit:
> Garry Stahl wrote:
>> When the one in Dearborn closed their closeout prices were still not as
>> good as Microcenter everyday.
> I also found this to be true... It reminds me of the churn in the

It varies, in my experience. I got a pretty good deal on my Radeon 9250
($25 brand new in the box) when the store on Telegraph north of Square
Lake Rd closed. Microcenter still sells those for more than that.

> building supply market - Each new company did better than the sole
> competitor before it -  HQ / Builders Square / Home Depot / Lowes ?
> When CompUSA started, there was to local Microcenter.... who will come
> along after CompUSA is gone to compete with Microcenter ?

It'd be nice to see Fry's come here. They're the big electronics store
out west, and the ones I've seen (in CA and OR) have a bigger selection
of computer stuff for cheaper than Microcenter. The one outside Chicago
is the closest one to here that I'm aware of.

Michael


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Fri Dec  7 10:22:50 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 10:22:50 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Processors and Thugs
In-Reply-To: <475960DF.4090208@linuxtechdaily.com>
References: <475960DF.4090208@linuxtechdaily.com>
Message-ID: <4759654A.9070402@hotpop.com>

Rich Hughes wrote:
> Hey everyone,
> 
> I don't know that this is appropriate for the list or not, it should be
> okay but just let me know if it isn't. I can take it.
> 
> I'm reviewing a barebones kit for my site. The processor is a Pentium 4
> 3.4GHz. I'm writing the review from the perspective that one benefit to
> using linux is you can use older, thus cheaper, technology and have it
> fly. This kit came with an awesome motherboard, 1 gig of ram, the
> processor that I mentioned, case + 300W power supply (low, but has been
> solid), wireless mouse and kb, cd rom and floppy for $189. I feel that
> this is a powerhouse machine. To get it up and running, I installed
> opensuse 10.3, and everything flies on it. With ram so cheap I can
> easily dump more in and this thing will move even faster.
> 

Sounds like a very capable machine.

> My question to the group is this: am I right that for everyday desktop
> usage that this is a great processor? I'm looking at it related to an
> earlier thread here. Sure, dual and quad core are great, but if you want
> a great system at a low price then this is the way to go. Us linux users
> are a tough bunch, though, and I don't want to post this review and have
> some smart thugs beat me up and getting all "LOL P4". Is there that much
> of a disadvantage using a P4 as oppossed to later dual and quad cores
> when looking at what typical users do (surf the web, burn movies, etc...) ?
> 


Single core verses quad core isn't much of an issue for
desktop machines.

Due to memory contention issues, compared to a quad-core computer
running at N GHz will perform slower than a single-core computer
running at 4*N GHz.

The ideal supercomputer is a single-core machine which runs
at infinite speed with memory that's fast enough to keep up.


To tell you the truth, when I build a new machine (or
upgrade one), my typical purchasing strategy is to buy
a CPU that's in the mid-range to slowest currently
available, and put the money I saved (compared to a
high end CPUs) into memory.  [10 years ago, I would have
said, improved graphics card with lots of memory, but now
even low-end graphics cards are more than adequate for
even the largest displays (in terms of number of pixels)]


> Sorry for the novel. That is why I don't post much here. I'm long winded.
> 

No problem.  Feel free to post whenever you want.
It keeps the boredom-monster away.

> Thanks,
> Rich H




From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Fri Dec  7 11:00:08 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 11:00:08 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Processors and Thugs
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712071013250.2585@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <475960DF.4090208@linuxtechdaily.com>	<4759630C.8060300@comcast.net>
	<alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712071013250.2585@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <47596E08.6050504@hotpop.com>

Michael Corral wrote:
> 2007-12-07, Monsieur Garry Stahl a ecrit:
>> I'm still cranking out on a 1.8 gig.
> 
> 1.8GHz? Luxury! My main PC is still a 1.2GHz Athlon that I've had for
> over 5 years. I keep trying to come up with reasons for why I should
> upgrade this box that works fine and does everything I need it to do.
> But I still can't really justify upgrading.
> 
>> Normal desktop work doesn't require huge amounts of horsepower.  It's
>> nice to have and I don't know anyone that would turn it down.
> 
> And Linux requires even less horsepower, if you avoid GNOME and KDE.
> My box running WindowMaker under Fedora 7 is snappier than more
> powerful machines I've used that ran Windows. A 3.0+GHz P4 would
> be more than good enough for any Linux desktop.

even on a 500 MHz processor, KDE performs well.
Login is a bit slow, but once it's loaded into memory,
it's OK.




From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Sun Dec  9 03:12:17 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 03:12:17 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] AntiSpam Tools
In-Reply-To: <47598370.2040005@arb.net>
References: <20071206132413.E740A14143@impelind.com>	<47585834.1010509@hotpop.com>
	<47598370.2040005@arb.net>
Message-ID: <475BA361.80701@hotpop.com>

Dave Arbogast wrote:
> 
> Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> 
>> While there are some shake-down operations, and
>> apparently some kidnapping of women who are sold
>> into enslavement as prostitutes, the overwhelming
>> majority of this activity is centered in Ukraine,
>> not Russia.
>>  
>>
> Why do you think this ? Have you ever been to the Ukraine ? I hold a 
> muli-entry Ukrainian VISA as my wife was born there under "Soviet 
> Times". It is true they have about the worst birth rate imbalance in the 
> world with about 54% girls, it is nearly hopeless for a woman over 25 
> there who is not married as the men who survived the Soviet / Ukrainian 
> military are either married or not interested in women. So, yes many of 
> them are eager to get out of the Ukraine and often they are tricked into 
> such, But the most expensive city in the world is Moscow. The populous 
> of Moscow did not all get an income boost to match this new distinction, 
> so Russian women are often very eager to come to the west too. Look on 
> the mail order bride sites for eastern Europe and you'll see more 
> Russians than Ukrainians.


Russia has a larger population, and it seems that
the Russian men aren't doing as well economically
as the Ukrainian men (despite a larger impact from
a true mafia-like organization)




From peter at petertheplumber.net  Sun Dec  9 09:45:55 2007
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 09:45:55 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: CompUSA, R.I.P.
In-Reply-To: <475B75FE.2020504@arb.net>
References: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712081047110.3972@banana.sluggo.net>
	<b02c40e90712080944r6aa29064x2ba8c855df6ea874@mail.gmail.com>
	<475B408F.7040003@comcast.net>  <475B75FE.2020504@arb.net>
Message-ID: <1197211555.3751.16.camel@plumber.site>


On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 23:58 -0500, Dave Arbogast wrote:
> 
> Garry Stahl wrote:
> 
> >Jeff Hanson wrote:
<snip>
> >
> I also found this to be true... It reminds me of the churn in the 
> building supply market - Each new company did better than the sole 
> competitor before it -  HQ / Builders Square / Home Depot / Lowes ?  
> When CompUSA started, there was to local Microcenter.... who will come 
> along after CompUSA is gone to compete with Microcenter ?

	I should also point out the tremendous slide in the quality of the
materials available at the stores in your example as well as a
(corresponding) slide in the availability of qualified help.

Best Regards,
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From relson at osagesoftware.com  Sun Dec  9 10:15:40 2007
From: relson at osagesoftware.com (David Relson)
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 10:15:40 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: CompUSA, R.I.P.
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712090018220.6467@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712081047110.3972@banana.sluggo.net>
	<b02c40e90712080944r6aa29064x2ba8c855df6ea874@mail.gmail.com>
	<475B408F.7040003@comcast.net> <475B75FE.2020504@arb.net>
	<alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712090018220.6467@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <20071209101540.79614b33@osage.osagesoftware.com>

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007 00:34:41 -0500 (EST)
Michael Corral wrote:

...[snip]...

> It'd be nice to see Fry's come here. They're the big electronics store
> out west, and the ones I've seen (in CA and OR) have a bigger
> selection of computer stuff for cheaper than Microcenter. The one
> outside Chicago is the closest one to here that I'm aware of.
> 
> Michael

There's one on I-69 north of Indianapolis.  I've passed it several
times on work related trips but have never had time to stop in.

Checking via maps.google.com, the Chicago Fry's is in Downer's Grove, IL
which is 253 miles (4 hr 12 min) away.  The Indianapolis Fry's is in
Fishers, IN which is 255 miles (3 hr 50 min) away.

Cheers,

David


From jmtaylor90 at gmail.com  Sun Dec  9 11:08:28 2007
From: jmtaylor90 at gmail.com (Jason)
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 11:08:28 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] NSA Security Guides
Message-ID: <1197216508.3298.1.camel@bruiser.localdomain>

The NSA has published some best practice type guides for securing
various OS's and hardware. Interesting stuff.

http://www.nsa.gov/snac/index.cfm?MenuID=scg10.3.1

-Jason
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From tesral at comcast.net  Sun Dec  9 14:28:07 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 14:28:07 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Processors and Thugs
In-Reply-To: <47596E08.6050504@hotpop.com>
References: <475960DF.4090208@linuxtechdaily.com>	<4759630C.8060300@comcast.net>	<alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712071013250.2585@banana.sluggo.net>
	<47596E08.6050504@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <475C41C7.2030906@comcast.net>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>> 1.8GHz? Luxury! My main PC is still a 1.2GHz Athlon that I've had for
>> over 5 years. I keep trying to come up with reasons for why I should
>> upgrade this box that works fine and does everything I need it to do.
>> But I still can't really justify upgrading.
>>     

I have a simple rule.  I keep a computer until it no longer does what I
need to do.  The old Gateway will be with me for a while unless the
motherboard gives it up.


> even on a 500 MHz processor, KDE performs well.
> Login is a bit slow, but once it's loaded into memory,
> it's OK.
>   

If you have the memory.  At 320 meg my 500Mhz Thinkpad is almost painful
to run using KDE on Suse 9.2.  (I tried 10.0, the machine didn't like
it.)  I really want a new one.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From jbroughton at twmi.rr.com  Sun Dec  9 18:47:09 2007
From: jbroughton at twmi.rr.com (Jim)
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 18:47:09 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] AntiSpam Tools
In-Reply-To: <001e01c837b1$c3001240$6401a8c0@AMD2000>
References: <001e01c837b1$c3001240$6401a8c0@AMD2000>
Message-ID: <475C7E7D.1050008@twmi.rr.com>

Michael ORourke wrote:
> Sorry... I know this discussion came up yet again recently.  What are the 
> latest anti-spam tools people are successfully running on their own mail 
> domains?
>
> -Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>   
 I run a qmail box for 2 domains and the best anti spam solution I have 
used so far
is 1. Firewall rules to block countries with heavy spam output.  2. 
spamdyke. a real time blacklist
spam blocker. Then I have clients use thunderbird with anti-spam 
capabilities turned on.
Since the company I work for does not have any overseas business 
dealings firewalling a
countries ip blocks is a very easy solution.




From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Mon Dec 10 00:59:34 2007
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 00:59:34 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: CompUSA, R.I.P.
In-Reply-To: <20071209101540.79614b33@osage.osagesoftware.com>
References: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712081047110.3972@banana.sluggo.net>
	<b02c40e90712080944r6aa29064x2ba8c855df6ea874@mail.gmail.com>
	<475B408F.7040003@comcast.net> <475B75FE.2020504@arb.net>
	<alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712090018220.6467@banana.sluggo.net>
	<20071209101540.79614b33@osage.osagesoftware.com>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380712092159v656924cdt2613d78fa95f196c@mail.gmail.com>

David Relson wrote:
> Michael Corral wrote:
> ...[snip]...
>> It'd be nice to see Fry's come here. They're the big electronics store
>> out west, and the ones I've seen (in CA and OR) have a bigger
>> selection of computer stuff for cheaper than Microcenter. The one
>> outside Chicago is the closest one to here that I'm aware of.

> There's one on I-69 north of Indianapolis.  I've passed it several
> times on work related trips but have never had time to stop in.

> Checking via maps.google.com, the Chicago Fry's is in Downer's Grove, IL
> which is 253 miles (4 hr 12 min) away.  The Indianapolis Fry's is in
> Fishers, IN which is 255 miles (3 hr 50 min) away.

I, for one will not miss CompUSA much -- I worked there for a time,
mostly running the Returns counter one Christmas, and back-stabbing
and scapegoating were rampant -- not a pleasant place to work.

I have been to the Fry's in Downer's Grove a number of times -- my
wife's relatives live in nearby Aurora -- and, while not perfect, it
DOES have stuff that's nearly impossible to find locally, both
computer hardware and electronic components.

There used to be a LOT of electronics distributors in this area, but
not any more, "Popular Electronics" magazine is gone... as a long-time
electronic technician, it seems kinda sad.  Where WILL the next
generation of electronic experimenters come from?

~~ Mikey


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Dec 10 01:28:51 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 01:28:51 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: CompUSA, R.I.P.
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380712092159v656924cdt2613d78fa95f196c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712081047110.3972@banana.sluggo.net>
	<b02c40e90712080944r6aa29064x2ba8c855df6ea874@mail.gmail.com>
	<475B408F.7040003@comcast.net> <475B75FE.2020504@arb.net>
	<alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712090018220.6467@banana.sluggo.net>
	<20071209101540.79614b33@osage.osagesoftware.com>
	<b67fb0380712092159v656924cdt2613d78fa95f196c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712092228g2ba73450ob9994dff73a8cfe@mail.gmail.com>

On Dec 10, 2007 12:59 AM, Michael Rudas <audiotech50 at gmail.com> wrote:
> There used to be a LOT of electronics distributors in this area, but
> not any more, "Popular Electronics" magazine is gone... as a long-time
> electronic technician, it seems kinda sad.  Where WILL the next
> generation of electronic experimenters come from?

That's an ongoing issue with electronics in general.  It's because of
the declining cost of consumer electronics and increasing integration.
 In the tube days the components were big and clunky and easy to
handle.  Consumer devices were expensive and kit building was
economical and fun.  Now it's 0.5mm pitch MSOPs, QFNs, and BGAs and
it's cheaper to throw consumer electronics out than to clean them, let
alone fix them.  Heathkits are gone, the Active Electronics store in
Redford closed, and Radio Shack is a shadow of it's former self.  Kids
are too distracted by game consoles to even bother learning how to
build a PC, and forget about component-level construction.  Many EEs
today have rather limited design skills and usually rely on copying
examples out of application notes to design systems.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Dec 10 01:51:35 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 01:51:35 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Need advice on network authentication design
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712092251k1e031266m882d477737477d33@mail.gmail.com>

Up till now my network has been peer-peer with separate user accounts
since I didn't have a server.  I'm now setting up a server and need a
directory service and authentication mechanism.  LDAP seems to be the
typical solution but I'm having trouble figuring out what to do with
transient client systems like my laptop which can be used offline for
up to a two week duration.  So far I've found two options - caching
credentials for a ridiculous length of time
(http://www.flyn.org/laptopldap/laptopldap.html) or setting up a slave
LDAP server on the laptop (and other transient systems) using slurpd
or syncrepl.  Caching seems ugly to me but I can see that having a
bunch of slaves could be problematic also.  Anyone have experience
with these issues?


From jcbender at bendorius.com  Mon Dec 10 09:03:37 2007
From: jcbender at bendorius.com (Joseph C. Bender)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 09:03:37 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Need advice on network authentication design
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90712092251k1e031266m882d477737477d33@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e90712092251k1e031266m882d477737477d33@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <475D4739.7080103@bendorius.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> Up till now my network has been peer-peer with separate user accounts
> since I didn't have a server.  I'm now setting up a server and need a
> directory service and authentication mechanism.  LDAP seems to be the
> typical solution but I'm having trouble figuring out what to do with
> transient client systems like my laptop which can be used offline for
> up to a two week duration.  So far I've found two options - caching
> credentials for a ridiculous length of time
> (http://www.flyn.org/laptopldap/laptopldap.html) or setting up a slave
> LDAP server on the laptop (and other transient systems) using slurpd
> or syncrepl.  Caching seems ugly to me but I can see that having a
> bunch of slaves could be problematic also.  Anyone have experience
> with these issues?
> 
	Yes.

	And if you can get away with it, don't.  There's not really a reason to 
have that.  Notebooks are always an edge case because they're so darned 
portable.  If you can make sure to do matching UID/GIDs for the laptop 
users/groups compared to the rest of your directory structure, it'll go 
a long way.  This also gives you a backup plan for when (not if, but 
when, it'll happen) the directory services on the server breaks and you 
can't easily log into a local workstation.

	If you have to have it in that authentication domain, caching 
credentials (with a means of refreshing those creds remotely, via VPN or 
some such is somthing to also consider if you're away from the network 
for longer than the cache time) is probably the way to go, however.


	Though, because I'm curious, why do you need a directory service?




-- 
Joseph Bender
Bendorius Consulting
P: 248-434-5580
F: 248-434-5581
jcbender at bendorius com


From radkins at impelind.com  Mon Dec 10 09:38:16 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 09:38:16 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Need advice on network authentication design
In-Reply-To: <475D4739.7080103@bendorius.com>
Message-ID: <20071210144535.05F4E14140@impelind.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Joseph C. Bender
> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 9:04 AM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Need advice on network authentication design
> 
> Jeff Hanson wrote:
> > Up till now my network has been peer-peer with separate 
> user accounts 
> > since I didn't have a server.  I'm now setting up a server 
> and need a 
> > directory service and authentication mechanism.  LDAP seems 
> to be the 
> > typical solution but I'm having trouble figuring out what 
> to do with 
> > transient client systems like my laptop which can be used 
> offline for 
> > up to a two week duration.  So far I've found two options - caching 
> > credentials for a ridiculous length of time
> > (http://www.flyn.org/laptopldap/laptopldap.html) or setting 
> up a slave 
> > LDAP server on the laptop (and other transient systems) 
> using slurpd 
> > or syncrepl.  Caching seems ugly to me but I can see that having a 
> > bunch of slaves could be problematic also.  Anyone have experience 
> > with these issues?
> > 
> 	Yes.
> 
> 	And if you can get away with it, don't.  There's not 
> really a reason to have that.  Notebooks are always an edge 
> case because they're so darned portable.  If you can make 
> sure to do matching UID/GIDs for the laptop users/groups 
> compared to the rest of your directory structure, it'll go a 
> long way.  This also gives you a backup plan for when (not 
> if, but when, it'll happen) the directory services on the 
> server breaks and you can't easily log into a local workstation.
> 
> 	If you have to have it in that authentication domain, 
> caching credentials (with a means of refreshing those creds 
> remotely, via VPN or some such is somthing to also consider 
> if you're away from the network for longer than the cache 
> time) is probably the way to go, however.
> 
> 
> 	Though, because I'm curious, why do you need a 
> directory service?
> 
> 

	I agree with Joseph's question.

	It sounds like you are going to have one server on your network.

	I am assuming that you are connecting Windows workstations to the
network? (Hopefully Windows XP Pro which can performain Domain Authenticated
logins.)

	If that's the case, you can use SAMBA setup as a Windows Primary
Domain Controller. If you need to, you could use NIS for synching multiple
servers up in your office.

	-ROb



From carew at pobox.com  Mon Dec 10 11:45:42 2007
From: carew at pobox.com (Evan Carew)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 11:45:42 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] NSA Security Guides
In-Reply-To: <1197216508.3298.1.camel@bruiser.localdomain>
References: <1197216508.3298.1.camel@bruiser.localdomain>
Message-ID: <475D6D36.5040209@pobox.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Interesting that they didn't cover TPM configuration under RHEL with
Trousers. I guess that means that it isn't needed, and or it isn't
currently bing used for desktop missions yet in the services. As for
Microsoft's configuration, it all looks rational, right down to the
USB key idea... except for the admonition against turning off the bit
locker. Hmm... Looks like a prescription for how to crack into a
windows machine running TPM doesn't it?

Jason wrote:

> The NSA has published some best practice type guides for securing
> various OS's and hardware. Interesting stuff.
>
> http://www.nsa.gov/snac/index.cfm?MenuID=scg10.3.1
>
> -Jason
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> _______________________________________________ mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


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=FqtR
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From tmorris at ugs.com  Mon Dec 10 12:51:03 2007
From: tmorris at ugs.com (Morris, Tim)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 11:51:03 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] OT: CompUSA, R.I.P.
In-Reply-To: <1197211555.3751.16.camel@plumber.site>
References: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712081047110.3972@banana.sluggo.net><b02c40e90712080944r6aa29064x2ba8c855df6ea874@mail.gmail.com><475B408F.7040003@comcast.net>
	<475B75FE.2020504@arb.net> <1197211555.3751.16.camel@plumber.site>
Message-ID: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E20407D454@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>

Nobody beats newegg!

--  Tim Morris - UGS PLM Software

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Peter Bart
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 9:46 AM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] OT: CompUSA, R.I.P.


On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 23:58 -0500, Dave Arbogast wrote:
> 
> Garry Stahl wrote:
> 
> >Jeff Hanson wrote:
<snip>
> >
> I also found this to be true... It reminds me of the churn in the 
> building supply market - Each new company did better than the sole 
> competitor before it -  HQ / Builders Square / Home Depot / Lowes ?  
> When CompUSA started, there was to local Microcenter.... who will come

> along after CompUSA is gone to compete with Microcenter ?

	I should also point out the tremendous slide in the quality of
the
materials available at the stores in your example as well as a
(corresponding) slide in the availability of qualified help.

Best Regards,
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net

_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Dec 10 13:00:40 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 13:00:40 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: CompUSA, R.I.P.
In-Reply-To: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E20407D454@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
References: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712081047110.3972@banana.sluggo.net>
	<b02c40e90712080944r6aa29064x2ba8c855df6ea874@mail.gmail.com>
	<475B408F.7040003@comcast.net> <475B75FE.2020504@arb.net>
	<1197211555.3751.16.camel@plumber.site>
	<B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E20407D454@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712101000n528d3d35kb7de0a2bfb6d468d@mail.gmail.com>

On Dec 10, 2007 12:51 PM, Morris, Tim <tmorris at ugs.com> wrote:
> Nobody beats newegg!

Nobody beats PriceGrabber.com and Pricewatch.com.


From admin at linuxtechdaily.com  Mon Dec 10 13:36:12 2007
From: admin at linuxtechdaily.com (Rich Hughes)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 13:36:12 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Thanks and self-promotion
Message-ID: <475D871C.9070006@linuxtechdaily.com>

Hey guys,

Thanks for all of the input about the P4 barebones system. I give you
guys credit in the review. If anyone is interested, here is the link:

http://www.linuxtechdaily.com/2007/12/review-geekscom-pentium-4-34ghz-barebones-system/

it is quieter than i expected a P4 to be. I might buy one of these, the
price is right. I should mention I get no cut of the sales of this thing
or anything, so I'm not kissing ass to make four bucks. I feel kind of
defensive about that when I write a positive review.

Anyway, thanks again, I appreciate the reassurance. It was interesting
to read the responses.

Take care,
Rich H


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Mon Dec 10 14:59:22 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 14:59:22 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT: CompUSA, R.I.P.
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380712092159v656924cdt2613d78fa95f196c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712081047110.3972@banana.sluggo.net>	<b02c40e90712080944r6aa29064x2ba8c855df6ea874@mail.gmail.com>	<475B408F.7040003@comcast.net>
	<475B75FE.2020504@arb.net>	<alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712090018220.6467@banana.sluggo.net>	<20071209101540.79614b33@osage.osagesoftware.com>
	<b67fb0380712092159v656924cdt2613d78fa95f196c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <475D9A9A.6080301@hotpop.com>

Michael Rudas wrote:
> David Relson wrote:
>> Michael Corral wrote:
>> ...[snip]...
>>> It'd be nice to see Fry's come here. They're the big electronics store
>>> out west, and the ones I've seen (in CA and OR) have a bigger
>>> selection of computer stuff for cheaper than Microcenter. The one
>>> outside Chicago is the closest one to here that I'm aware of.
> 
>> There's one on I-69 north of Indianapolis.  I've passed it several
>> times on work related trips but have never had time to stop in.
> 
>> Checking via maps.google.com, the Chicago Fry's is in Downer's Grove, IL
>> which is 253 miles (4 hr 12 min) away.  The Indianapolis Fry's is in
>> Fishers, IN which is 255 miles (3 hr 50 min) away.
> 
> I, for one will not miss CompUSA much -- I worked there for a time,
> mostly running the Returns counter one Christmas, and back-stabbing
> and scapegoating were rampant -- not a pleasant place to work.

That's usually a problem of the individual store management
rather than the chain as a whole.

> 
> I have been to the Fry's in Downer's Grove a number of times -- my
> wife's relatives live in nearby Aurora -- and, while not perfect, it
> DOES have stuff that's nearly impossible to find locally, both
> computer hardware and electronic components.
> 
> There used to be a LOT of electronics distributors in this area, but
> not any more, "Popular Electronics" magazine is gone... as a long-time
> electronic technician, it seems kinda sad.  Where WILL the next
> generation of electronic experimenters come from?
>

Taiwan





From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Mon Dec 10 15:07:24 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 15:07:24 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Need advice on network authentication design
In-Reply-To: <475D4739.7080103@bendorius.com>
References: <b02c40e90712092251k1e031266m882d477737477d33@mail.gmail.com>
	<475D4739.7080103@bendorius.com>
Message-ID: <475D9C7C.1010504@hotpop.com>

Joseph C. Bender wrote:
> Jeff Hanson wrote:
>> Up till now my network has been peer-peer with separate user accounts
>> since I didn't have a server.  I'm now setting up a server and need a
>> directory service and authentication mechanism.  LDAP seems to be the
>> typical solution but I'm having trouble figuring out what to do with
>> transient client systems like my laptop which can be used offline for
>> up to a two week duration.  So far I've found two options - caching
>> credentials for a ridiculous length of time
>> (http://www.flyn.org/laptopldap/laptopldap.html) or setting up a slave
>> LDAP server on the laptop (and other transient systems) using slurpd
>> or syncrepl.  Caching seems ugly to me but I can see that having a
>> bunch of slaves could be problematic also.  Anyone have experience
>> with these issues?
>>
> 	Yes.
> 
> 	And if you can get away with it, don't.  There's not really a reason to 
> have that.  Notebooks are always an edge case because they're so darned 
> portable.  If you can make sure to do matching UID/GIDs for the laptop 
> users/groups compared to the rest of your directory structure, it'll go 
> a long way.  This also gives you a backup plan for when (not if, but 
> when, it'll happen) the directory services on the server breaks and you 
> can't easily log into a local workstation.
> 
> 	If you have to have it in that authentication domain, caching 
> credentials (with a means of refreshing those creds remotely, via VPN or 
> some such is somthing to also consider if you're away from the network 
> for longer than the cache time) is probably the way to go, however.
> 
> 
> 	Though, because I'm curious, why do you need a directory service?

Probably because some clueless manager just heard the
term last week.




From mdlug3 at arb.net  Mon Dec 10 16:51:31 2007
From: mdlug3 at arb.net (Dave Arbogast)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 16:51:31 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Need advice on network authentication design
In-Reply-To: <475D9C7C.1010504@hotpop.com>
References: <b02c40e90712092251k1e031266m882d477737477d33@mail.gmail.com>	<475D4739.7080103@bendorius.com>
	<475D9C7C.1010504@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <475DB4E3.8010103@arb.net>



Aaron Kulkis wrote:

>Joseph C. Bender wrote:
>  
>
>>Jeff Hanson wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>Up till now my network has been peer-peer with separate user accounts
>>>since I didn't have a server.  I'm now setting up a server and need a
>>>directory service and authentication mechanism.  LDAP seems to be the
>>>typical solution but I'm having trouble figuring out what to do with
>>>transient client systems like my laptop which can be used offline for
>>>up to a two week duration.  So far I've found two options - caching
>>>credentials for a ridiculous length of time
>>>(http://www.flyn.org/laptopldap/laptopldap.html) or setting up a slave
>>>LDAP server on the laptop (and other transient systems) using slurpd
>>>or syncrepl.  Caching seems ugly to me but I can see that having a
>>>bunch of slaves could be problematic also.  Anyone have experience
>>>with these issues?
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>	Yes.
>>
>>	And if you can get away with it, don't.  There's not really a reason to 
>>have that.  Notebooks are always an edge case because they're so darned 
>>portable.  If you can make sure to do matching UID/GIDs for the laptop 
>>users/groups compared to the rest of your directory structure, it'll go 
>>a long way.  This also gives you a backup plan for when (not if, but 
>>when, it'll happen) the directory services on the server breaks and you 
>>can't easily log into a local workstation.
>>
>>	If you have to have it in that authentication domain, caching 
>>credentials (with a means of refreshing those creds remotely, via VPN or 
>>some such is somthing to also consider if you're away from the network 
>>for longer than the cache time) is probably the way to go, however.
>>
>>
>>	Though, because I'm curious, why do you need a directory service?
>>    
>>
>
>Probably because some clueless manager just heard the
>term last week.
>
>  
>
You got to love technology driven by what the boss read in a trade 
rag... especially when it is "security" related.. In this case, LDAP 
will reduce the security of the systems because the ID/passwords will be 
now be crossing the wire clear-text. Good thing the boss didn't read 
about LDAP/s as you'd have an extra step to setup and deal with.

Caching has been a standard feature in the M$ realm for a while...

-dave


From driveray at ameritech.net  Mon Dec 10 18:19:43 2007
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:19:43 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] [Announce] MUG meeting tomorrow - December 11, 2007
Message-ID: <475DC98F.2060008@ameritech.net>


MUG's Next Meeting is tomorrow Tuesday, December 11, 2007.
As usual it is one I'm looking forward to. - Duane :-)

Main Topic: OpenVPN
Speaker: Flavio daCosta

The man, the myth, the legend will fill us in on OpenVPN. OpenVPN is a
full-featured SSL VPN solution which can accommodate a wide range of
configurations, including remote access, site-to-site VPNs, WiFi
security, and enterprise-scale remote access solutions with load
balancing, failover, and fine-grained access-controls.

Additional Topic: LaTex
Jim McQuillan will tell us the what, whys, and wherefores about LaTex
and related tools.

If you have topics for future meetings you would like us to cover please
email the board, thanks.

Where:

The MUG meetings are held at:

Farmington Community Library - Main Branch
32737 W. 12 Mile Rd.
Farmington Hills, MI 48334-3302

Click here for a map of the area.

When:

the meetings are on the 2nd Tuesday of each month.
6:00pm 	Doors open, registration 	     O'Reilly
6:30pm 	Meeting starts, Mug business
6:45pm 	Main presentation
8:15pm 	2nd Presentation
8:45pm 	Meeting adjourns
9:00pm 	Dinner at a local establishment



_______________________________________________
Announce mailing list
Announce at www.mug.org
http://www.mug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/announce


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Mon Dec 10 16:42:51 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 16:42:51 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: Re: [opensuse] vmware and fake scsi drivers-final]
Message-ID: <475DB2DB.3040405@hotpop.com>



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [opensuse] vmware and fake scsi drivers-final
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 14:23:53 +0100
From: Catimimi <catimimi at libertysurf.fr>
To: opensuse <opensuse at opensuse.org>
References: <200712071308.30858.kanenas at hawaii.rr.com>

kanenas at hawaii.rr.com a ?crit :
> After trying a bunch of things on my problem of accessing a physical xp 
> installation from my vmware server inside my 10.3 install, the final 
> conclusion is that it can not be done. Suse 10.3 presents my hda1partition as 
> sda1 to vmware and thus to all the virtual machines i can set up thru vmware, 
> yet a dual boot configuration maintains the ide character of the hard drive. 
> Thus, when booting from a dual boot, the doze partition knows it is an ide, 
> when i try to access it thru vmware doze is being told it is a scsi!!!!! 
>   

I don't agree, if you connect this drive to a vmware IDE controller (as
I told you), windows
is told that it is an IDE partition.

Michel





From jcbender at bendorius.com  Mon Dec 10 21:42:26 2007
From: jcbender at bendorius.com (Joseph C. Bender)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 21:42:26 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Need advice on network authentication design
In-Reply-To: <475D9C7C.1010504@hotpop.com>
References: <b02c40e90712092251k1e031266m882d477737477d33@mail.gmail.com>	<475D4739.7080103@bendorius.com>
	<475D9C7C.1010504@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <475DF912.9060804@bendorius.com>

Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>
> Probably because some clueless manager just heard the
> term last week.
> 
	Gee, why don't we wait for him to answer that one?  Your conclusion 
jumping speaks volumes, but should be expected, I suppose.

	Funny how you automatically assume there's no legit reason for any such 
thing.

-- 
Joseph Bender
Bendorius Consulting
P: 248-434-5580
F: 248-434-5581
jcbender at bendorius com


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Dec 10 21:54:12 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 21:54:12 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Need advice on network authentication design
In-Reply-To: <475D4739.7080103@bendorius.com>
References: <b02c40e90712092251k1e031266m882d477737477d33@mail.gmail.com>
	<475D4739.7080103@bendorius.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712101854ld7d226cq5088118c377e9ee1@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry about the late reply, I had a hardware failure.  You can read
about it here:
http://jhansonxi.blogspot.com/2007/12/keyboard-led-flashing-panic.html

On Dec 10, 2007 9:03 AM, Joseph C. Bender <jcbender at bendorius.com> wrote:
> Though, because I'm curious, why do you need a directory service?

First, I want to learn how to do centralized authentication and user
account control properly on Linux.  I would like to get a feel for it
and what it's limitations are as compared to M$AD so I can plan
deployments in small businesses and multi-system home networks.
Second, I want to eliminate having to manually change passwords and
keep UIDs and GIDs in sync on different systems and be able to easily
administer it remotely.

My current network consists of six networks connected through IPCop
with the Extra Interfaces add-on
(http://www.ban-solms.de/t/IPCop-xtiface.html).  In IPCop colors they
are:

Red (WAN) - cable modem
Green (personal) - my primary LAN.  There is also a VPN connection
through to my pseudo-employer's network (which is secured by blind
faith in M$ technology and nothing else).
Orange (public server) - Not currently used but I have plans for a web
server and/or game server (UT2004, Tremulous, etc.)
Blue (public wifi) - currently has minimal bandwidth control but I
want to set up traffic shaping and a Radius server with "terms of use"
agreement, etc.  I also want to set up a VPN to green for my laptop
and for household user laptops to the gray2 household network.
Gray1 (isolated) - for working on any suspect system, i.e. anything
that's not mine and has a M$ OS.  Can be accessed from green but can't
connect out to anything.
Gray2 (household) - shared with the family whose house my office is
in.  Can be accessed from green but not the reverse.  Multiple systems
(Ubuntu, XP), Xbox, PlayStation, guest systems, etc.

Currently all systems are peer-peer with manually duplicated accounts.
 My primary desktop system is effectively the current server on green
with a second hard drive for manual backups.  It's running out of
space.  I've got two 400GB drives and another PC available and want to
set it up as a dedicated server with RAID, archival data storage, and
BackupPC for backing up user data on client systems.

Archival data consists of M$ updates, Linux ISOs, Ubuntu repo mirror,
and multimedia files.  It would be nice if the Ubuntu repo mirror and
ISOs were available to wifi users without having to set up a separate
server on Orange.  Internally, links to the archive will be mapped to
a subdirectory in the user's home directory.  Archival data is not
critical so it doesn't matter if the server is offline.

For the household network users I want to set up a separate archive
for them to share their more static data and use rsync to provide
basic roaming profiles by mirroring dynamic and desktop configuration
data for each user.  I've thought about just doing /home mapping and
storing everything on the server but they play a lot of Windows games
on Wine and it's just too much application data that can be easily
replaced.  Using rsync to back up their documents and game saves is
more complicated but a lot more efficient.  I would also like to use
single sign-on with both their XP and Linux systems.  Of course they
will probably lose control of their accounts because XP malware will
get their password but as long as the root Linux account is safe it
doesn't matter.  Another concern is that in a few months I may be
moving out and would like to be able to migrate household to it's own
server.

I want this setup to give me access to everything via the server
across the VPN.  This is what I can do now with my employer's network
and my workstation there via RDC and Windows "offline files" syncing
to their server.  On both my laptop and desktop systems I am running
XP and Win98SE in VMware but joining them to my domain is not
critical.  Just using network file sharing is adequate as most of my
CAD data is handled by Perforce (a cross-platform version control
system).  I would like to be able to access the network via VPN from
anywhere using my laptop but I am sometimes in remote areas on
vacation for two weeks at a time where there is no Internet connection
and I can't have the laptop locking me out.  Of course, future clients
may also encounter this problem and I want a solution instead of an
excuse.

After I get this mess working I'm going to play around with setting up
VPNs to some of my friends' and family's networks for file sharing and
ssh access for remote administration.


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Dec 10 22:40:06 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 22:40:06 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Thanks and self-promotion
In-Reply-To: <475D871C.9070006@linuxtechdaily.com>
References: <475D871C.9070006@linuxtechdaily.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712101940s3d48d202nfa7f5a6f18be4b10@mail.gmail.com>

On Dec 10, 2007 1:36 PM, Rich Hughes <admin at linuxtechdaily.com> wrote:
> Hey guys,
>
> Thanks for all of the input about the P4 barebones system. I give you
> guys credit in the review. If anyone is interested, here is the link:
>
> http://www.linuxtechdaily.com/2007/12/review-geekscom-pentium-4-34ghz-barebones-system/

The only error I noticed in your review is the number of PCI/PCI-E
slots listed is vague.  According to Foxconn:

1 x PCI-E x16
3 x PCI-E x1
3 x PCI


From admin at linuxtechdaily.com  Mon Dec 10 23:34:05 2007
From: admin at linuxtechdaily.com (Rich Hughes)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 23:34:05 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Thanks and self-promotion
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90712101940s3d48d202nfa7f5a6f18be4b10@mail.gmail.com>
References: <475D871C.9070006@linuxtechdaily.com>
	<b02c40e90712101940s3d48d202nfa7f5a6f18be4b10@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <475E133D.1060703@linuxtechdaily.com>

Thanks Jeff,

Today was a hell day, and I had committed to getting the review posted.
Frankly, I was beat and rushed when I put it up, obviously didn't give
it the in depth proofreading I should have. I also said "3 PCI 1x slot"
in addition to not listing the PCI-E x16. There were a few other errors
in that paragraph. I appreciate you pointing that out, it limits my
embarrassment.  I better take a closer look at it tomorrow, I was off my
game today in this area. I have T.B.I. and seeing mistakes like that
freaks the hell out of me.

Much appreciation,
Rich H

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> On Dec 10, 2007 1:36 PM, Rich Hughes <admin at linuxtechdaily.com> wrote:
>   
>> Hey guys,
>>
>> Thanks for all of the input about the P4 barebones system. I give you
>> guys credit in the review. If anyone is interested, here is the link:
>>
>> http://www.linuxtechdaily.com/2007/12/review-geekscom-pentium-4-34ghz-barebones-system/
>>     
>
> The only error I noticed in your review is the number of PCI/PCI-E
> slots listed is vague.  According to Foxconn:
>
> 1 x PCI-E x16
> 3 x PCI-E x1
> 3 x PCI
>   



From radkins at impelind.com  Tue Dec 11 08:23:21 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 08:23:21 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Need advice on network authentication design
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90712101854ld7d226cq5088118c377e9ee1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20071211133042.082A11412E@impelind.com>



 	
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Hanson
> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 9:54 PM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Need advice on network authentication design
> 
> Sorry about the late reply, I had a hardware failure.  You 
> can read about it here:
> http://jhansonxi.blogspot.com/2007/12/keyboard-led-flashing-panic.html
> 
> On Dec 10, 2007 9:03 AM, Joseph C. Bender 
> <jcbender at bendorius.com> wrote:
> > Though, because I'm curious, why do you need a directory service?
> 
> First, I want to learn how to do centralized authentication 
> and user account control properly on Linux.  I would like to 
> get a feel for it and what it's limitations are as compared 
> to M$AD so I can plan deployments in small businesses and 
> multi-system home networks.
> Second, I want to eliminate having to manually change 
> passwords and keep UIDs and GIDs in sync on different systems 
> and be able to easily administer it remotely.
> 

	I have found the O'Reilly books covering Administration topics to be
extremely excellent and if you want to learn OpenLDAP. I am planning on
picking up this book http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/ldapsa/index.html over
the holidays and get started with that.

	I'm running two servers and have Samba acting as a Primary Domain
Controller on one of the servers, which means I need to sink up three
different sets of uid/password files. I'd rather do some more work up front
and then only need to worry about creating a user account once and then add
that user to various groups he/she needs access to.

 	Unsure if NIS would do the trick as I've had more pressing matters
to attend to, which is also why I am considering picking up this book as
well: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/nfs2/index.html

	Anyway, Windows workstations will cache, more or less forever,
UID/Password combos after they are connected to a domain, which allows users
to still login to their workstations if the domain controller is down or
otherwise unvailable.

	-Rob



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Dec 12 16:01:54 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:01:54 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Virtualization and pets
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712121301qbf6dd9fx4f64b7564e57bd85@mail.gmail.com>

This could turn into another tech craze:
http://xkcd.com/350/


From amajorov at sbcglobal.net  Thu Dec 13 08:46:54 2007
From: amajorov at sbcglobal.net (allen)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 08:46:54 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] linux router
Message-ID: <476137CE.4050301@sbcglobal.net>

I've got an old system I plan to recycle as a router. I've been doing a 
bit of digging and come across LRP and LEAF for the software end of 
things. Beyond those two, and LRP seems to have stopped further 
development, are there any other alternatives?

Allen


From carl at carltm.com  Thu Dec 13 09:02:52 2007
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:02:52 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] linux router
In-Reply-To: <476137CE.4050301@sbcglobal.net>
References: <476137CE.4050301@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <7726.66.51.146.94.1197554572.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

allen wrote:
> I've got an old system I plan to recycle as a router. I've been doing a
> bit of digging and come across LRP and LEAF for the software end of
> things. Beyond those two, and LRP seems to have stopped further
> development, are there any other alternatives?

A simpler approach would be to take a Linux box, include two
network cards and enable routing.  If you did this, you might
want to use iptables as a firewall on either or both of the
interfaces.

If you want to do this, netmasq provides an easy way to configure
the firewall with iptables.  http://www.carltm.com/netmasq/

c




From otakurider at gmail.com  Thu Dec 13 09:27:58 2007
From: otakurider at gmail.com (-)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:27:58 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] linux router
In-Reply-To: <476137CE.4050301@sbcglobal.net>
References: <476137CE.4050301@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <cd5131a50712130627j23645165sd78e542f13ef187b@mail.gmail.com>

You could try IPCop or Smoothwall - IPCop is still being maintained,
Smoothwall seems to be a little dead on the updates.IPCopy allows you you to
set up secured network I/F for things like wireless and DMZ's.
it can do traffic shaping and monitoring traffic flow,  can be configured to
be a NIDS and proxy/capture proxy server.
It can be setup to run on a SD card if needed.
May be a little over kill, but its a option.


Pat Baker
VP MDLUG


On Dec 13, 2007 8:46 AM, allen <amajorov at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> I've got an old system I plan to recycle as a router. I've been doing a
> bit of digging and come across LRP and LEAF for the software end of
> things. Beyond those two, and LRP seems to have stopped further
> development, are there any other alternatives?
>
> Allen
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From starline at wideopenwest.com  Thu Dec 13 14:22:16 2007
From: starline at wideopenwest.com (Bob Dion)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:22:16 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] linux router
In-Reply-To: <476137CE.4050301@sbcglobal.net>
References: <476137CE.4050301@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <47618668.5060809@wideopenwest.com>

allen wrote:
> I've got an old system I plan to recycle as a router. I've been doing a 
> bit of digging and come across LRP and LEAF for the software end of 
> things. Beyond those two, and LRP seems to have stopped further 
> development, are there any other alternatives?
> 

Try Floppy Firewall, Actively maintained, got it's inspiration from LRP 
(may it rest in peace) but floppyfw is not a fork.  runs from a floppy, 
cd, hd, or compact flash.

http://www.zelow.no/floppyfw/index.html

I'm currently running it on a old celeron system.

BD



From tmorris at ugs.com  Thu Dec 13 15:31:16 2007
From: tmorris at ugs.com (Morris, Tim)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:31:16 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] linux router
In-Reply-To: <476137CE.4050301@sbcglobal.net>
References: <476137CE.4050301@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E20407D46D@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>

Oh man... 

There used to be a Linux floppy project that let you build the whole
thing online and just download a floppy image of your settings and
drivers (actually selected the NICs online). I don't think it was LRP,
but I can never remember the name of it, and Google returns too many to
filter. A friend of mine used it for years. If I think of the name I'll
repost. 

I hate not remembering...




--  Tim Morris - UGS PLM Software
-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of allen
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 8:47 AM
To: mdlug Main discussion list
Subject: [mdlug] linux router

I've got an old system I plan to recycle as a router. I've been doing a 
bit of digging and come across LRP and LEAF for the software end of 
things. Beyond those two, and LRP seems to have stopped further 
development, are there any other alternatives?

Allen
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From tmorris at ugs.com  Thu Dec 13 15:39:05 2007
From: tmorris at ugs.com (Morris, Tim)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:39:05 -0600
Subject: [mdlug] linux router
In-Reply-To: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E20407D46D@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
References: <476137CE.4050301@sbcglobal.net>
	<B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E20407D46D@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>
Message-ID: <B5AF964E8C85CB49884C8B076A1580E20407D46E@USSLMPLM004.net.plm.eds.com>

Found it!

http://www.bbiagent.com/en/index.html

As I said, a friend used it 3 or 4 years ago and was happy with it. I
don't know if it's still under development or not. 

--  Tim Morris - UGS PLM Software

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Morris, Tim
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 3:31 PM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] linux router

Oh man... 

There used to be a Linux floppy project that let you build the whole
thing online and just download a floppy image of your settings and
drivers (actually selected the NICs online). I don't think it was LRP,
but I can never remember the name of it, and Google returns too many to
filter. A friend of mine used it for years. If I think of the name I'll
repost. 

I hate not remembering...




--  Tim Morris - UGS PLM Software
-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of allen
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 8:47 AM
To: mdlug Main discussion list
Subject: [mdlug] linux router

I've got an old system I plan to recycle as a router. I've been doing a 
bit of digging and come across LRP and LEAF for the software end of 
things. Beyond those two, and LRP seems to have stopped further 
development, are there any other alternatives?

Allen
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From tony at bemushosting.com  Thu Dec 13 18:07:40 2007
From: tony at bemushosting.com (Tony Bemus)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 18:07:40 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] linux router
In-Reply-To: <cd5131a50712130627j23645165sd78e542f13ef187b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <476137CE.4050301@sbcglobal.net>
	<cd5131a50712130627j23645165sd78e542f13ef187b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1197587260.23710.1.camel@bemus-tony>

I second IPCop  I used it for about a year and it worked great and did
everything you need including VPN,  site to site and "Road Warrior" with
OpenVPN.
-  
Tony Bemus
Bemus Hosting
www.bemushosting.com


On Thu, 2007-12-13 at 09:27 -0500, - wrote:

> You could try IPCop or Smoothwall - IPCop is still being maintained,
> Smoothwall seems to be a little dead on the updates.IPCopy allows you you to
> set up secured network I/F for things like wireless and DMZ's.
> it can do traffic shaping and monitoring traffic flow,  can be configured to
> be a NIDS and proxy/capture proxy server.
> It can be setup to run on a SD card if needed.
> May be a little over kill, but its a option.
> 
> 
> Pat Baker
> VP MDLUG
> 
> 
> On Dec 13, 2007 8:46 AM, allen <amajorov at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> 
> > I've got an old system I plan to recycle as a router. I've been doing a
> > bit of digging and come across LRP and LEAF for the software end of
> > things. Beyond those two, and LRP seems to have stopped further
> > development, are there any other alternatives?
> >
> > Allen
> > _______________________________________________
> > mdlug mailing list
> > mdlug at mdlug.org
> > http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> >
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From relson at osagesoftware.com  Thu Dec 13 19:05:01 2007
From: relson at osagesoftware.com (David Relson)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:05:01 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] linux router
In-Reply-To: <7726.66.51.146.94.1197554572.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
References: <476137CE.4050301@sbcglobal.net>
	<7726.66.51.146.94.1197554572.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <20071213190501.51f685b8@osage.osagesoftware.com>

On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:02:52 -0500 (EST)
Carl T. Miller wrote:

> allen wrote:
> > I've got an old system I plan to recycle as a router. I've been
> > doing a bit of digging and come across LRP and LEAF for the
> > software end of things. Beyond those two, and LRP seems to have
> > stopped further development, are there any other alternatives?
> 
> A simpler approach would be to take a Linux box, include two
> network cards and enable routing.  If you did this, you might
> want to use iptables as a firewall on either or both of the
> interfaces.
> 
> If you want to do this, netmasq provides an easy way to configure
> the firewall with iptables.  http://www.carltm.com/netmasq/
> 
> c

I started using netmasq some years ago because its setup is clean
and straightforward and lets me know exactly which ports are
enabled.  I've been using it for at least 7 years now (as
timestamps /etc/netmasq/RCS show commits in Oct 2000).

Regards,

David


From muteid10t at gmail.com  Thu Dec 13 21:11:10 2007
From: muteid10t at gmail.com (Ron Blanchett)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:11:10 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] linux router
In-Reply-To: <20071213190501.51f685b8@osage.osagesoftware.com>
References: <476137CE.4050301@sbcglobal.net>
	<7726.66.51.146.94.1197554572.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
	<20071213190501.51f685b8@osage.osagesoftware.com>
Message-ID: <52995d720712131811u62a26a9es23b69817e1f6b8ae@mail.gmail.com>

I use pfSense, It's not Linux based but FreeBSD based.
I have had more success with it than some of the Linux based systems.
For what I have heard IPCop is one of the best Linux Based solutions.

pfSense is making great strides and adds many of the requested
that the community requests in there forums and on there mailing list.

-Ron

On 12/13/07, David Relson <relson at osagesoftware.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:02:52 -0500 (EST)
> Carl T. Miller wrote:
>
> > allen wrote:
> > > I've got an old system I plan to recycle as a router. I've been
> > > doing a bit of digging and come across LRP and LEAF for the
> > > software end of things. Beyond those two, and LRP seems to have
> > > stopped further development, are there any other alternatives?
> >
> > A simpler approach would be to take a Linux box, include two
> > network cards and enable routing.  If you did this, you might
> > want to use iptables as a firewall on either or both of the
> > interfaces.
> >
> > If you want to do this, netmasq provides an easy way to configure
> > the firewall with iptables.  http://www.carltm.com/netmasq/
> >
> > c
>
> I started using netmasq some years ago because its setup is clean
> and straightforward and lets me know exactly which ports are
> enabled.  I've been using it for at least 7 years now (as
> timestamps /etc/netmasq/RCS show commits in Oct 2000).
>
> Regards,
>
> David
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From hornblower at gmail.com  Fri Dec 14 12:51:40 2007
From: hornblower at gmail.com (Matthew Nelson)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 12:51:40 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] linux router
Message-ID: <99324a930712140951k6cab60efmf19a0dd5658958ec@mail.gmail.com>

I have a debian box at home that I use as my router.  i use arno's iptables
firewall script for nat, firewalling, port forwarding etc.  I also use an
802.11g pci card in master mode using wep for wireless connectivity.  i use
two wired nics and the wireless.  one nic is internet and the other wired
and wireless are bridged and use nat.

overall i'm pretty happy with that solution, but i think i'm going to
investigate ipcop and see what it does ;)


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 15 01:03:19 2007
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 01:03:19 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Xbox accused of jamming WLANs
Message-ID: <b67fb0380712142203s3c4ada69y2f468036b57f133d@mail.gmail.com>

This is the first I've seen of this -- why am I NOT surprised?  This
is a good thing to know about if your WLAN starts acting up...

"Xbox accused of jamming WLANs"
** Signals from Microsoft's Xbox 360 game console can disrupt wireless
LANs, according to IT staff at Morrisville State College. **
<http://www.techworld.com/mobility/news/index.cfm?newsid=10941>

This could be a problem for university IT staffs everywhere after Xmas
(if not already!) -- even if they fixed this for future versions, the
units already produced will STILL be a problem...

~~ Mikey


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Sun Dec 16 14:28:45 2007
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 14:28:45 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Soviet Microsoft
Message-ID: <b67fb0380712161128x667335a1vdae80a825526d205@mail.gmail.com>

Here's something that could affect all us Linux users over time.
Agree or disagree, the author raises some interesting points.  His
conclusions are (understandably) a bit more Apple-centric than I would
like, but it IS easier to track Apple than Linux in this context.  Via
<http://blue-gnu.biz> --

"Soviet Microsoft: How Resistance to Free Markets and Open Ideas Will
Unravel the Software Superpower"
<http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2007/12/13/soviet-microsoft-how-resistance-to-free-markets-and-open-ideas-will-the-unravel-the-software-superpower>
or via the original Blue GNU link:
<http://blue-gnu.biz/content/soviet_microsoft>

~~ Mikey


From micorral at comcast.net  Sun Dec 16 15:00:38 2007
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 15:00:38 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Soviet Microsoft
In-Reply-To: <b67fb0380712161128x667335a1vdae80a825526d205@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b67fb0380712161128x667335a1vdae80a825526d205@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712161438290.28210@banana.sluggo.net>

2007-12-16, Monsieur Michael Rudas a ecrit:
> "Soviet Microsoft: How Resistance to Free Markets and Open Ideas Will
> Unravel the Software Superpower"
> <http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2007/12/13/soviet-microsoft-how-resistance-to-free-markets-and-open-ideas-will-the-unravel-the-software-superpower>

What a crock of feces that article is.

Most of the "free market" crowd in fact loves Microsoft. They are,
according to them, a shining example of how the "free market" rewards
those "entrepreneurs", like Gates, who have the "vision" and "gumption"
to start from a small-time operation and become wealthy. Microsoft is
not in any way trying to form a "planned economy", gimme a break.
George W. Bush and his ilk (i.e. rabid right-wing anti-Communists)
*love* Microsoft (notice how they called off the DOJ from nailing MS).

That article is just absurd. When you have to resort to crude appeals
to anti-Communism to argue against *Microsoft* (!), you know your
arguments are weak. What's funny to me is how much of an Apple fanboy
the guy is, when Apple is in many ways even *worse* than Microsoft
when it comes to vendor lock-in and restricting choice. At least MS
allows you to install their crummy OS on any kind of PC, while Apple
only lets you install their OS on their hardware. Hell, even Sun lets
you install Solaris on any PC. So all in all, that guy's an idiot.

Michael


From carl at carltm.com  Sun Dec 16 15:06:15 2007
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 15:06:15 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Discount at ORA
Message-ID: <28292.216.144.215.245.1197835575.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

I seem to recall that MDLUG members can buy books from O'Reilly
and Associates at a discount, but I don't recall the details.

Is there some code that needs to be entered when making an
online purchase?

c




From tony at bemushosting.com  Sun Dec 16 20:25:43 2007
From: tony at bemushosting.com (Tony Bemus)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:25:43 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Soviet Microsoft
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712161438290.28210@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <b67fb0380712161128x667335a1vdae80a825526d205@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712161438290.28210@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <1197854743.32262.7.camel@bemus-tony>

I'm not a Mac fan my self but just for correct details,  there is a x86
version of the Mac OS X.  You can build your own x86 (intel or AMD or
whatever) computer and put the Mac OS on it.
-  
Tony Bemus



On Sun, 2007-12-16 at 15:00 -0500, Michael Corral wrote:

> 2007-12-16, Monsieur Michael Rudas a ecrit:
> > "Soviet Microsoft: How Resistance to Free Markets and Open Ideas Will
> > Unravel the Software Superpower"
> > <http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2007/12/13/soviet-microsoft-how-resistance-to-free-markets-and-open-ideas-will-the-unravel-the-software-superpower>
> 
> What a crock of feces that article is.
> 
> Most of the "free market" crowd in fact loves Microsoft. They are,
> according to them, a shining example of how the "free market" rewards
> those "entrepreneurs", like Gates, who have the "vision" and "gumption"
> to start from a small-time operation and become wealthy. Microsoft is
> not in any way trying to form a "planned economy", gimme a break.
> George W. Bush and his ilk (i.e. rabid right-wing anti-Communists)
> *love* Microsoft (notice how they called off the DOJ from nailing MS).
> 
> That article is just absurd. When you have to resort to crude appeals
> to anti-Communism to argue against *Microsoft* (!), you know your
> arguments are weak. What's funny to me is how much of an Apple fanboy
> the guy is, when Apple is in many ways even *worse* than Microsoft
> when it comes to vendor lock-in and restricting choice. At least MS
> allows you to install their crummy OS on any kind of PC, while Apple
> only lets you install their OS on their hardware. Hell, even Sun lets
> you install Solaris on any PC. So all in all, that guy's an idiot.
> 
> Michael
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


From micorral at comcast.net  Sun Dec 16 20:45:30 2007
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:45:30 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Soviet Microsoft
In-Reply-To: <1197854743.32262.7.camel@bemus-tony>
References: <b67fb0380712161128x667335a1vdae80a825526d205@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712161438290.28210@banana.sluggo.net>
	<1197854743.32262.7.camel@bemus-tony>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712162027320.526@banana.sluggo.net>

2007-12-16, Monsieur Tony Bemus a ecrit:
> I'm not a Mac fan my self but just for correct details,  there is a x86
> version of the Mac OS X.

Of course. Apple started making x86 machines a few years ago.

> You can build your own x86 (intel or AMD or
> whatever) computer and put the Mac OS on it.

No you can't, at least not legally. Have you read the OS X license
agreement?
http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/MacOSX.htm
"2. Permitted License Uses and Restrictions.
A. This License allows you to install and use one copy of the Apple
Software on a single Apple-labeled computer at a time."

You're only allowed to install the x86 version on "Apple-labeled"
computers, i.e. on an x86 machine built by Apple. That's the lock-in
I was referring to.

Michael


From tesral at comcast.net  Sun Dec 16 21:23:20 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 21:23:20 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Soviet Microsoft
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712161438290.28210@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <b67fb0380712161128x667335a1vdae80a825526d205@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712161438290.28210@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <4765DD98.3060905@comcast.net>

Michael Corral wrote:
> 2007-12-16, Monsieur Michael Rudas a ecrit:
>   
>> "Soviet Microsoft: How Resistance to Free Markets and Open Ideas Will
>> Unravel the Software Superpower"
>> <http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2007/12/13/soviet-microsoft-how-resistance-to-free-markets-and-open-ideas-will-the-unravel-the-software-superpower>
>>     
>
> What a crock of feces that article is.
>
> Most of the "free market" crowd in fact loves Microsoft.

Excelt the so called free market isn't.  Buch and cronies are
Merchantilists.  They bear the same relation to free market capitalists
as "soviet socialism" did to communism.

So there are no free market people in power right now. 

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Sun Dec 16 22:10:54 2007
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 22:10:54 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Soviet Microsoft
In-Reply-To: <1197854743.32262.7.camel@bemus-tony>
References: <b67fb0380712161128x667335a1vdae80a825526d205@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712161438290.28210@banana.sluggo.net>
	<1197854743.32262.7.camel@bemus-tony>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380712161910n1ed41b2dt6d95d470be85381b@mail.gmail.com>

Tony Bemus wrote:

> I'm not a Mac fan myself but just for correct details,  there is a x86
> version of the Mac OS X.  You can build your own x86 (intel or AMD or
> whatever) computer and put the Mac OS on it.

Not with the "legal" OS X package -- it's tied to Apple hardware.  I
think that what you are thinking of is OpenDarwin, which was
DELIBERATELY crippled and not-quite-functional -- so much so, in fact,
that they shut the project down. See:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDarwin>

And, yes, Apple is as bad as MS -- in some ways, worse.  As Rob
Landley said at the last Penguicon, "Microsoft is evil and
incompetent.  Apple is MORE dangerous in the long run because they're
evil and competent."

~~ Mikey


From me at thomaslawrence.com  Mon Dec 17 09:08:06 2007
From: me at thomaslawrence.com (Thomas Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 09:08:06 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] OT:FS  DELL POWEREDGE 2500 SERVER
Message-ID: <476682C6.10004@thomaslawrence.com>

Need to sell, Makes a great linux server.  I will take $250 for it.
# Tower
# INTEL PENTIUM III 1.0GHz (dual)
# 1.0GB PC133 RAM  (4 x 256mb)
# 6 HARD DRIVES, 36G,  (currently raid5)
# 2 HARD DRIVES, 18G (currently raid1)
# PERC 128MB RAID ON MOTHER BOARD
# CD-ROM DRIVE
# FLOPPY DRIVE
# 10/100 NIC CARD
# ONBOARD VIDEO

Email or call off list 313-299-1503



From micorral at comcast.net  Mon Dec 17 12:46:41 2007
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 12:46:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] OT:FS  DELL POWEREDGE 2500 SERVER
In-Reply-To: <476682C6.10004@thomaslawrence.com>
References: <476682C6.10004@thomaslawrence.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712171238180.2148@banana.sluggo.net>

2007-12-17, Monsieur Thomas Lawrence a ecrit:
> Need to sell, Makes a great linux server.  I will take $250 for it.
> # Tower
> # INTEL PENTIUM III 1.0GHz (dual)
> # 1.0GB PC133 RAM  (4 x 256mb)
> # 6 HARD DRIVES, 36G,  (currently raid5)
> # 2 HARD DRIVES, 18G (currently raid1)
> # PERC 128MB RAID ON MOTHER BOARD
> # CD-ROM DRIVE
> # FLOPPY DRIVE
> # 10/100 NIC CARD
> # ONBOARD VIDEO

I think your price mistakenly has a 2 at the beginning. :)

Michael


From MCMay at RGIS.com  Mon Dec 17 16:05:06 2007
From: MCMay at RGIS.com (May, Mat)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 16:05:06 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel upgrade problems
Message-ID: <CA462815C6533D42B452BA68A6CE6A0502A028C8@HQEX01.na.ad.rgis.com>

I am running RHEL AS 3 Update 9 on Dell PowerEdge 2850s and I have just
updated the kernel from 2.4.21-27.0.4.ELsmp to 2.4.21-53.ELsmp and when
I reboot the server to use the new kernel I get the following error:
 
            VFS: Cannot open root device "LABEL=/" or 00:00
            Please append a correct "root=" boot option
            Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 00:00
 
I then went into the grub.conf and changed the entry replacing the
"LABEL=" with "/dev/sda3" which is my / partition and also changed the
"root=" from 0:0 to 0:2.  After reboot I received the following error:
 
            Kmod: failed to exec /sbin/modprobe -s -k block-major-8,
errno = 2
            VFS: Cannot open root device "sda3" or 08:03
            Please append a corrent "root=" boot option
            Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 08:30
 
Here are my grub.conf and device.map files.  
 
Grub.conf
 
[root at dc1-21 grub]# more grub.conf
# grub.conf generated by anaconda
#
# Note that you do not have to rerun grub after making changes to this
file
# NOTICE:  You have a /boot partition.  This means that
#          all kernel and initrd paths are relative to /boot/, eg.
#          root (hd0,0)
#          kernel /vmlinuz-version ro root=/dev/sda3
#          initrd /initrd-version.img
#boot=/dev/sda
default=1
timeout=10
splashimage=(hd0,0)/grub/splash.xpm.gz
title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-53.EL)
        root (hd0,0)
        kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.EL ro root=LABEL=/
        initrd /initrd-2.4.21-53.EL.img
title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-53.ELsmp)
        root (hd0,2)
        kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.ELsmp ro root=LABEL=/
        initrd /initrd-2.4.21-53.ELsmp.img
title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-27.0.4.EL)
        root (hd0,0)
        kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-27.0.4.EL ro root=LABEL=/
        initrd /initrd-2.4.21-27.0.4.EL.img
title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-27.0.4.ELsmp)
        root (hd0,0)
        kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-27.0.4.ELsmp ro root=LABEL=/
        initrd /initrd-2.4.21-27.0.4.ELsmp.img
 
device.map
 
[root at dc1-21 grub]# more device.map
# this device map was generated by anaconda
(fd0)     /dev/fd0
(hd0)     /dev/sda
 
I can boot into the older kernel version no problem, but I cannot figure
out what to change to allow me to boot into the newer version.  Any help
would be greatly appreciated.
 
 
In a world without walls and fences, why do we need Windows and Gates?
Mathew May
RGIS LLC
Inventory System Support
mcmay at rgis.com
(248)608-8244
 
 


NOTE: The information in this email may be confidential and legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipi?ent, you must not read, use or disseminate the information; please advise the sender immediately by reply email and delete this message and any attachments without retaining a copy. Although this email and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that may affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by RGIS, LLC for any loss or damage arising in any way from its use.


From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Tue Dec 18 08:10:06 2007
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 08:10:06 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel upgrade problems
In-Reply-To: <CA462815C6533D42B452BA68A6CE6A0502A028C8@HQEX01.na.ad.rgis.com>
Message-ID: <C38D30DE.52798%GregWojtak@quickenloans.com>

Unless you have another /boot partition, the root(hd0,0) should stay the
same.  This is the grub root, not the system root (/).  Try this entry:

title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-53.ELsmp)
        root (hd0,0)
        kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.ELsmp ro root=/dev/sda3
        initrd /initrd-2.4.21-53.ELsmp.img


Note the changes to the "root" line and the "kernel" line.

Greg


On 12/17/07 4:05 PM, "May, Mat" <MCMay at RGIS.com> wrote:

> I am running RHEL AS 3 Update 9 on Dell PowerEdge 2850s and I have just
> updated the kernel from 2.4.21-27.0.4.ELsmp to 2.4.21-53.ELsmp and when
> I reboot the server to use the new kernel I get the following error:
>  
>             VFS: Cannot open root device "LABEL=/" or 00:00
>             Please append a correct "root=" boot option
>             Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 00:00
>  
> I then went into the grub.conf and changed the entry replacing the
> "LABEL=" with "/dev/sda3" which is my / partition and also changed the
> "root=" from 0:0 to 0:2.  After reboot I received the following error:
>  
>             Kmod: failed to exec /sbin/modprobe -s -k block-major-8,
> errno = 2
>             VFS: Cannot open root device "sda3" or 08:03
>             Please append a corrent "root=" boot option
>             Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 08:30
>  
> Here are my grub.conf and device.map files.
>  
> Grub.conf
>  
> [root at dc1-21 grub]# more grub.conf
> # grub.conf generated by anaconda
> #
> # Note that you do not have to rerun grub after making changes to this
> file
> # NOTICE:  You have a /boot partition.  This means that
> #          all kernel and initrd paths are relative to /boot/, eg.
> #          root (hd0,0)
> #          kernel /vmlinuz-version ro root=/dev/sda3
> #          initrd /initrd-version.img
> #boot=/dev/sda
> default=1
> timeout=10
> splashimage=(hd0,0)/grub/splash.xpm.gz
> title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-53.EL)
>         root (hd0,0)
>         kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.EL ro root=LABEL=/
>         initrd /initrd-2.4.21-53.EL.img
> title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-53.ELsmp)
>         root (hd0,2)
>         kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.ELsmp ro root=LABEL=/
>         initrd /initrd-2.4.21-53.ELsmp.img
> title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-27.0.4.EL)
>         root (hd0,0)
>         kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-27.0.4.EL ro root=LABEL=/
>         initrd /initrd-2.4.21-27.0.4.EL.img
> title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-27.0.4.ELsmp)
>         root (hd0,0)
>         kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-27.0.4.ELsmp ro root=LABEL=/
>         initrd /initrd-2.4.21-27.0.4.ELsmp.img
>  
> device.map
>  
> [root at dc1-21 grub]# more device.map
> # this device map was generated by anaconda
> (fd0)     /dev/fd0
> (hd0)     /dev/sda
>  
> I can boot into the older kernel version no problem, but I cannot figure
> out what to change to allow me to boot into the newer version.  Any help
> would be greatly appreciated.
>  
>  
> In a world without walls and fences, why do we need Windows and Gates?
> Mathew May
> RGIS LLC
> Inventory System Support
> mcmay at rgis.com
> (248)608-8244
>  
>  
> 
> 
> NOTE: The information in this email may be confidential and legally
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From rjclay at gmail.com  Tue Dec 18 08:58:35 2007
From: rjclay at gmail.com (Robert J. Clay)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 08:58:35 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] linux router
In-Reply-To: <476137CE.4050301@sbcglobal.net>
References: <476137CE.4050301@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <a379574a0712180558x35857113xf83d92b737b12cc5@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/13/07, allen <amajorov at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> I've got an old system I plan to recycle as a router. I've been doing a
> bit of digging and come across LRP and LEAF for the software end of
> things. Beyond those two, and LRP seems to have stopped further
> development, are there any other alternatives?

   I originally used LRP on an old 486 but now run a Debian based
firewall using Shorewall...



-- 
Robert J. Clay
rjclay at gmail.com


From driveray at ameritech.net  Tue Dec 18 13:49:39 2007
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 13:49:39 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] [Fwd: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, December 11]
Message-ID: <47681643.3020208@ameritech.net>

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From MCMay at RGIS.com  Tue Dec 18 14:00:58 2007
From: MCMay at RGIS.com (May, Mat)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 14:00:58 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel upgrade problems
In-Reply-To: <C38D30DE.52798%GregWojtak@quickenloans.com>
Message-ID: <CA462815C6533D42B452BA68A6CE6A0502A028D1@HQEX01.na.ad.rgis.com>

Ok, now this is totally driving me crazy, and I am sure that it is going
to be something really simple that I have overlooked once I pull my
forehead off the wall.  
 
I tried the entry that you listed below, and the system panicked again.
After some quick digging and few pushes of the power button I have the
following information:
 
The / partition is /dev/sda3
The /boot partition is /dev/sda1
Both the vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.ELsmp and initrd-2.4.21-53.ELsmp.img files
reside in the "/boot" directory (sorry if I am explaining things
everyone already knows)
Using e2label I have verified the following:  "/dev/sda1" is "/boot" and
"/dev/sda3" is "/"
Here are the results from various grub.conf configurations:
 
Boot using:       title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-53.ELsmp)
                        root (hd0,0)
                        kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.ELsmp ro
root=/dev/sda3
                        initrd /initrd-2.4.21-53.ELsmp.img
Result:                 
            Creating block devices
            Kmod: failed to exec /sbin/modprobe -s -k block-major8,
errno = 2
            VFS: Cannot open root device "sda3" or 08:03
            Please append a correct "root=" boot option
            Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 08:03
 
Boot using:       title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-53.ELsmp)
                        root (hd0,0)
                        kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.ELsmp ro
root=LABEL=/boot
                        initrd /initrd-2.4.21-53.ELsmp.img
Results:          
            Creating block devices
            VFS: Cannot open root devices "LABEL=/boot" or 00:00
            Please append a correct "root=" boot option
            Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 00:00
 
Boot using:       title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-53.ELsmp)
                        root (hd0,0)
                        kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.ELsmp ro
root=/dev/sda1
                        initrd /initrd-2.4.21-53.ELsmp.img  
Result:
Creating block device
Kmod: failed to exec /sbin/modprobe -s -k block-major-8, errno = 2
VFS: Cannot open root device "sda1" or 08:00
Please append a correct "root=" boot option
Kerner panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 08:01
 
Boot using:       title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-53.ELsmp)
                        root (hd0,0)
                        kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.ELsmp ro root=LABEL=/
                        initrd /initrd-2.4.21-53.ELsmp.img
Result:     
Creating block devices
            VFS: Cannot open root device "LABEL=/" or 00:00
            Please append a correct "root=" boot option
            Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 00:00
 
 
 
In a world without walls and fences, why do we need Windows and Gates?
 
Mathew May
 
RGIS LLC
 
Inventory System Support
 
mcmay at rgis.com
 
(248)608-8244
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
Of Wojtak, Greg
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 8:10 AM
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
Subject: Re: [mdlug] Kernel upgrade problems
 
Unless you have another /boot partition, the root(hd0,0) should stay the
same.  This is the grub root, not the system root (/).  Try this entry:
 
title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-53.ELsmp)
        root (hd0,0)
        kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.ELsmp ro root=/dev/sda3
        initrd /initrd-2.4.21-53.ELsmp.img
 
 
Note the changes to the "root" line and the "kernel" line.
 
Greg
 
 
On 12/17/07 4:05 PM, "May, Mat" <MCMay at RGIS.com> wrote:
 
> I am running RHEL AS 3 Update 9 on Dell PowerEdge 2850s and I have
just
> updated the kernel from 2.4.21-27.0.4.ELsmp to 2.4.21-53.ELsmp and
when
> I reboot the server to use the new kernel I get the following error:
>  
>             VFS: Cannot open root device "LABEL=/" or 00:00
>             Please append a correct "root=" boot option
>             Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 00:00
>  
> I then went into the grub.conf and changed the entry replacing the
> "LABEL=" with "/dev/sda3" which is my / partition and also changed the
> "root=" from 0:0 to 0:2.  After reboot I received the following error:
>  
>             Kmod: failed to exec /sbin/modprobe -s -k block-major-8,
> errno = 2
>             VFS: Cannot open root device "sda3" or 08:03
>             Please append a corrent "root=" boot option
>             Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 08:30
>  
> Here are my grub.conf and device.map files.
>  
> Grub.conf
>  
> [root at dc1-21 grub]# more grub.conf
> # grub.conf generated by anaconda
> #
> # Note that you do not have to rerun grub after making changes to this
> file
> # NOTICE:  You have a /boot partition.  This means that
> #          all kernel and initrd paths are relative to /boot/, eg.
> #          root (hd0,0)
> #          kernel /vmlinuz-version ro root=/dev/sda3
> #          initrd /initrd-version.img
> #boot=/dev/sda
> default=1
> timeout=10
> splashimage=(hd0,0)/grub/splash.xpm.gz
> title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-53.EL)
>         root (hd0,0)
>         kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.EL ro root=LABEL=/
>         initrd /initrd-2.4.21-53.EL.img
> title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-53.ELsmp)
>         root (hd0,2)
>         kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.ELsmp ro root=LABEL=/
>         initrd /initrd-2.4.21-53.ELsmp.img
> title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-27.0.4.EL)
>         root (hd0,0)
>         kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-27.0.4.EL ro root=LABEL=/
>         initrd /initrd-2.4.21-27.0.4.EL.img
> title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-27.0.4.ELsmp)
>         root (hd0,0)
>         kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-27.0.4.ELsmp ro root=LABEL=/
>         initrd /initrd-2.4.21-27.0.4.ELsmp.img
>  
> device.map
>  
> [root at dc1-21 grub]# more device.map
> # this device map was generated by anaconda
> (fd0)     /dev/fd0
> (hd0)     /dev/sda
>  
> I can boot into the older kernel version no problem, but I cannot
figure
> out what to change to allow me to boot into the newer version.  Any
help
> would be greatly appreciated.
>  
>  
> In a world without walls and fences, why do we need Windows and Gates?
> Mathew May
> RGIS LLC
> Inventory System Support
> mcmay at rgis.com
> (248)608-8244
>  
>  
> 
> 
> NOTE: The information in this email may be confidential and legally
> privileged. If you are not the intended recipi-ent, you must not read,
use or
> disseminate the information; please advise the sender immediately by
reply
> email and delete this message and any attachments without retaining a
copy.
> Although this email and any attachments are believed to be free of any
virus
> or other defect that may affect any computer system into which it is
received
> and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that
it is
> virus free and no responsibility is accepted by RGIS, LLC for any loss
or
> damage arising in any way from its use.
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
 
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug


NOTE: The information in this email may be confidential and legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipi?ent, you must not read, use or disseminate the information; please advise the sender immediately by reply email and delete this message and any attachments without retaining a copy. Although this email and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that may affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by RGIS, LLC for any loss or damage arising in any way from its use.


From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Tue Dec 18 16:13:22 2007
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:13:22 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel upgrade problems
In-Reply-To: <CA462815C6533D42B452BA68A6CE6A0502A028D1@HQEX01.na.ad.rgis.com>
Message-ID: <C38DA222.52898%GregWojtak@quickenloans.com>

Maybe try removing the new kernel and reinstalling?

[root at host ~]# rpm -e kernel-2.4.21-53.ELsmp kernel-2.4.21-53.EL
[root at host ~]# up2date -if kernel-smp

See if that helps at all.


On 12/18/07 2:00 PM, "May, Mat" <MCMay at RGIS.com> wrote:

> Ok, now this is totally driving me crazy, and I am sure that it is going
> to be something really simple that I have overlooked once I pull my
> forehead off the wall.
>  
> I tried the entry that you listed below, and the system panicked again.
> After some quick digging and few pushes of the power button I have the
> following information:
>  
> The / partition is /dev/sda3
> The /boot partition is /dev/sda1
> Both the vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.ELsmp and initrd-2.4.21-53.ELsmp.img files
> reside in the "/boot" directory (sorry if I am explaining things
> everyone already knows)
> Using e2label I have verified the following:  "/dev/sda1" is "/boot" and
> "/dev/sda3" is "/"
> Here are the results from various grub.conf configurations:
>  
> Boot using:       title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-53.ELsmp)
>                         root (hd0,0)
>                         kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.ELsmp ro
> root=/dev/sda3
>                         initrd /initrd-2.4.21-53.ELsmp.img
> Result:          
>             Creating block devices
>             Kmod: failed to exec /sbin/modprobe -s -k block-major8,
> errno = 2
>             VFS: Cannot open root device "sda3" or 08:03
>             Please append a correct "root=" boot option
>             Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 08:03
>  
> Boot using:       title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-53.ELsmp)
>                         root (hd0,0)
>                         kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.ELsmp ro
> root=LABEL=/boot
>                         initrd /initrd-2.4.21-53.ELsmp.img
> Results:         
>             Creating block devices
>             VFS: Cannot open root devices "LABEL=/boot" or 00:00
>             Please append a correct "root=" boot option
>             Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 00:00
>  
> Boot using:       title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-53.ELsmp)
>                         root (hd0,0)
>                         kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.ELsmp ro
> root=/dev/sda1
>                         initrd /initrd-2.4.21-53.ELsmp.img
> Result:
> Creating block device
> Kmod: failed to exec /sbin/modprobe -s -k block-major-8, errno = 2
> VFS: Cannot open root device "sda1" or 08:00
> Please append a correct "root=" boot option
> Kerner panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 08:01
>  
> Boot using:       title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-53.ELsmp)
>                         root (hd0,0)
>                         kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.ELsmp ro root=LABEL=/
>                         initrd /initrd-2.4.21-53.ELsmp.img
> Result:     
> Creating block devices
>             VFS: Cannot open root device "LABEL=/" or 00:00
>             Please append a correct "root=" boot option
>             Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 00:00
>  
>  
>  
> In a world without walls and fences, why do we need Windows and Gates?
>  
> Mathew May
>  
> RGIS LLC
>  
> Inventory System Support
>  
> mcmay at rgis.com
>  
> (248)608-8244
>  
>  
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf
> Of Wojtak, Greg
> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 8:10 AM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Kernel upgrade problems
>  
> Unless you have another /boot partition, the root(hd0,0) should stay the
> same.  This is the grub root, not the system root (/).  Try this entry:
>  
> title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-53.ELsmp)
>         root (hd0,0)
>         kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.ELsmp ro root=/dev/sda3
>         initrd /initrd-2.4.21-53.ELsmp.img
>  
>  
> Note the changes to the "root" line and the "kernel" line.
>  
> Greg
>  
>  
> On 12/17/07 4:05 PM, "May, Mat" <MCMay at RGIS.com> wrote:
>  
>> I am running RHEL AS 3 Update 9 on Dell PowerEdge 2850s and I have
> just
>> updated the kernel from 2.4.21-27.0.4.ELsmp to 2.4.21-53.ELsmp and
> when
>> I reboot the server to use the new kernel I get the following error:
>>  
>>             VFS: Cannot open root device "LABEL=/" or 00:00
>>             Please append a correct "root=" boot option
>>             Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 00:00
>>  
>> I then went into the grub.conf and changed the entry replacing the
>> "LABEL=" with "/dev/sda3" which is my / partition and also changed the
>> "root=" from 0:0 to 0:2.  After reboot I received the following error:
>>  
>>             Kmod: failed to exec /sbin/modprobe -s -k block-major-8,
>> errno = 2
>>             VFS: Cannot open root device "sda3" or 08:03
>>             Please append a corrent "root=" boot option
>>             Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 08:30
>>  
>> Here are my grub.conf and device.map files.
>>  
>> Grub.conf
>>  
>> [root at dc1-21 grub]# more grub.conf
>> # grub.conf generated by anaconda
>> #
>> # Note that you do not have to rerun grub after making changes to this
>> file
>> # NOTICE:  You have a /boot partition.  This means that
>> #          all kernel and initrd paths are relative to /boot/, eg.
>> #          root (hd0,0)
>> #          kernel /vmlinuz-version ro root=/dev/sda3
>> #          initrd /initrd-version.img
>> #boot=/dev/sda
>> default=1
>> timeout=10
>> splashimage=(hd0,0)/grub/splash.xpm.gz
>> title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-53.EL)
>>         root (hd0,0)
>>         kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.EL ro root=LABEL=/
>>         initrd /initrd-2.4.21-53.EL.img
>> title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-53.ELsmp)
>>         root (hd0,2)
>>         kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.ELsmp ro root=LABEL=/
>>         initrd /initrd-2.4.21-53.ELsmp.img
>> title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-27.0.4.EL)
>>         root (hd0,0)
>>         kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-27.0.4.EL ro root=LABEL=/
>>         initrd /initrd-2.4.21-27.0.4.EL.img
>> title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-27.0.4.ELsmp)
>>         root (hd0,0)
>>         kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-27.0.4.ELsmp ro root=LABEL=/
>>         initrd /initrd-2.4.21-27.0.4.ELsmp.img
>>  
>> device.map
>>  
>> [root at dc1-21 grub]# more device.map
>> # this device map was generated by anaconda
>> (fd0)     /dev/fd0
>> (hd0)     /dev/sda
>>  
>> I can boot into the older kernel version no problem, but I cannot
> figure
>> out what to change to allow me to boot into the newer version.  Any
> help
>> would be greatly appreciated.
>>  
>>  
>> In a world without walls and fences, why do we need Windows and Gates?
>> Mathew May
>> RGIS LLC
>> Inventory System Support
>> mcmay at rgis.com
>> (248)608-8244
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> NOTE: The information in this email may be confidential and legally
>> privileged. If you are not the intended recipi-ent, you must not read,
> use or
>> disseminate the information; please advise the sender immediately by
> reply
>> email and delete this message and any attachments without retaining a
> copy.
>> Although this email and any attachments are believed to be free of any
> virus
>> or other defect that may affect any computer system into which it is
> received
>> and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that
> it is
>> virus free and no responsibility is accepted by RGIS, LLC for any loss
> or
>> damage arising in any way from its use.
>> _______________________________________________
>> mdlug mailing list
>> mdlug at mdlug.org
>> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>  
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> 
> 
> NOTE: The information in this email may be confidential and legally
> privileged. If you are not the intended recipi?ent, you must not read, use or
> disseminate the information; please advise the sender immediately by reply
> email and delete this message and any attachments without retaining a copy.
> Although this email and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus
> or other defect that may affect any computer system into which it is received
> and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is
> virus free and no responsibility is accepted by RGIS, LLC for any loss or
> damage arising in any way from its use.
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From driveray at ameritech.net  Tue Dec 18 16:13:43 2007
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:13:43 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] President's Mail bag  [Fwd: Embedded Developer]
Message-ID: <47683807.60205@ameritech.net>

Passed along without comment:

> Found your user?s group on line and wanted to see if there is any method
> of advertising an open Embedded Linux Developer?s position with your
> group or other groups for a lead position here in the Kansas City, MO
> area.  Great position and will pay up to $150K with possible,
> substantial bonuses and stock options.  There would also be a good
> relocation package as well.  Let me know if you have any suggestions. 
> Thanks!
> 
> Dan Prussing
> 
> 2405 Grand, Suite #390
> 
> Kansas City, MO  64108
> 
> phone:  816-471-5575 x304
> 
> fax:  816-471-6690
> 
> Website:  www.austintec.com <http://www.austintec.com>
> 
>  
> 



From driveray at ameritech.net  Tue Dec 18 16:19:20 2007
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:19:20 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Please trim your posts-- Re:  Kernel upgrade problems
In-Reply-To: <C38DA222.52898%GregWojtak@quickenloans.com>
References: <C38DA222.52898%GregWojtak@quickenloans.com>
Message-ID: <47683958.9030401@ameritech.net>

Please trim your posts.

Wojtak, Greg wrote:
> Maybe try removing the new kernel and reinstalling?
> 
> [root at host ~]# rpm -e kernel-2.4.21-53.ELsmp kernel-2.4.21-53.EL
> [root at host ~]# up2date -if kernel-smp
> 
> See if that helps at all.
> 
> 
> On 12/18/07 2:00 PM, "May, Mat" <MCMay at RGIS.com> wrote:
> 


From MCMay at RGIS.com  Tue Dec 18 16:40:37 2007
From: MCMay at RGIS.com (May, Mat)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:40:37 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Please trim your posts-- Re:  Kernel upgrade problems
In-Reply-To: <47683958.9030401@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <CA462815C6533D42B452BA68A6CE6A0502A028D6@HQEX01.na.ad.rgis.com>

Sorry, didn't mean to hog everyone's mail boxes.

In a world without walls and fences, why do we need Windows and Gates?

Mathew May

RGIS LLC

Inventory System Support

mcmay at rgis.com

(248)608-8244

 


NOTE: The information in this email may be confidential and legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipi?ent, you must not read, use or disseminate the information; please advise the sender immediately by reply email and delete this message and any attachments without retaining a copy. Although this email and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that may affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by RGIS, LLC for any loss or damage arising in any way from its use.


From set at pobox.com  Tue Dec 18 17:18:36 2007
From: set at pobox.com (Paul)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 17:18:36 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel upgrade problems
In-Reply-To: <C38DA222.52898%GregWojtak@quickenloans.com>
References: <CA462815C6533D42B452BA68A6CE6A0502A028D1@HQEX01.na.ad.rgis.com>
	<C38DA222.52898%GregWojtak@quickenloans.com>
Message-ID: <20071218221836.GE29501@squish.home.loc>

"Wojtak, Greg" <GregWojtak at quickenloans.com>, on Tue Dec 18, 2007 [04:13:22 PM] said:
> Maybe try removing the new kernel and reinstalling?
> 
> [root at host ~]# rpm -e kernel-2.4.21-53.ELsmp kernel-2.4.21-53.EL
> [root at host ~]# up2date -if kernel-smp
> 
> See if that helps at all.
> 
> 
> On 12/18/07 2:00 PM, "May, Mat" <MCMay at RGIS.com> wrote:
> 
> > Ok, now this is totally driving me crazy, and I am sure that it is going
> > to be something really simple that I have overlooked once I pull my
> > forehead off the wall.
> >  
> > I tried the entry that you listed below, and the system panicked again.
> > After some quick digging and few pushes of the power button I have the
> > following information:
> >  
> > The / partition is /dev/sda3
> > The /boot partition is /dev/sda1
> > Both the vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.ELsmp and initrd-2.4.21-53.ELsmp.img files
> > reside in the "/boot" directory (sorry if I am explaining things
> > everyone already knows)
> > Using e2label I have verified the following:  "/dev/sda1" is "/boot" and
> > "/dev/sda3" is "/"
> > Here are the results from various grub.conf configurations:
> >  
> > Boot using:       title Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS (2.4.21-53.ELsmp)
> >                         root (hd0,0)
> >                         kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.21-53.ELsmp ro
> > root=/dev/sda3
> >                         initrd /initrd-2.4.21-53.ELsmp.img
> > Result:          
> >             Creating block devices
> >             Kmod: failed to exec /sbin/modprobe -s -k block-major8,
> > errno = 2
> >             VFS: Cannot open root device "sda3" or 08:03
> >             Please append a correct "root=" boot option
> >             Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 08:03
> >  

	Hi;

	Well, the above message shows the kernel trying to load a module
to handle block-major8 and failing. Devices have a major and minor
numbering scheme; major 8 == scsi disk, minor 3 == partition 3. Since
you are using an initrd, there could be some problem with that image.
(or it could just be the kernels desparate attempt to get get a driver
to handle this device because for whatever reason it was unable to.)
If you can see earlier boot messages you might see if the kernel ever
detects your scsi disk. Because it appears that when it gets to the
point of trying to mount the root filesystem, it hasnt found a scsi
disk of that description.

Paul
set at pobox.com



From dobwan at earthlink.net  Tue Dec 18 20:32:05 2007
From: dobwan at earthlink.net (Duane Brown)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 20:32:05 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Please trim your posts
In-Reply-To: <47683958.9030401@ameritech.net>
References: <C38DA222.52898%GregWojtak@quickenloans.com>
	<47683958.9030401@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <47687495.5030106@earthlink.net>

Me too

the above is as abusive as "Please trim your posts."


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Wed Dec 19 06:14:27 2007
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 06:14:27 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] VMWare on openSUSE 10.3 Cannot Find C Header Files
Message-ID: <1198062867.4658.38.camel@plumber.site>

Hello Everyone,
	I'm trying to get VMware v5.5.5 configured on openSUSE 10.3. After
issuing ./vmware-install.pl all goes well with the default configuration
until I get to:

None of the pre-built vmmon modules for VMware Workstation is suitable
for your
running kernel.  Do you want this program to try to build the vmmon
module for 
your system (you need to have a C compiler installed on your system)?
[yes] 

Using compiler "/usr/bin/gcc". Use environment variable CC to override.

What is the location of the directory of C header files that match your
running
kernel? [/usr/src/linux/include] 

The path "/usr/src/linux/include" is not an existing directory.

	The compiler I have installed is gcc 4.2. I can't seem to find anything
on VMware discussion list about this. The last time I ran VMware was on
openSUSE 10.2 so I'm assuming something changed. Is the location of the
C header files the directory in which it's installed? I'm unsuccessfully
trying to search for that using Nautilus. Which direction do I go from
here?

Best Regards,
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From carl at carltm.com  Wed Dec 19 06:26:38 2007
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 06:26:38 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] VMWare on openSUSE 10.3 Cannot Find C Header Files
In-Reply-To: <1198062867.4658.38.camel@plumber.site>
References: <1198062867.4658.38.camel@plumber.site>
Message-ID: <17574.216.144.215.245.1198063598.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

Peter Bart wrote:
> 	I'm trying to get VMware v5.5.5 configured on openSUSE 10.3. After
> issuing ./vmware-install.pl all goes well with the default configuration
> until I get to:
>
> What is the location of the directory of C header files that match your
> running
> kernel? [/usr/src/linux/include]

The vmware-install.pl program will find the C header files directory
if it's in a "normal" location.  If it can't find it, it offers
/usr/src/linux/include as the default option.

This probably means that you don't have the kernel-source or
kernel-headers package installed (I forget which one you need for
an OpenSuSE system).  After installing the kernel headers and
rerunning vmware-install.pl you should see a valid option appear
at this point in the program.

c




From radkins at impelind.com  Wed Dec 19 08:54:26 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 08:54:26 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] VMWare on openSUSE 10.3 Cannot Find C Header Files
In-Reply-To: <17574.216.144.215.245.1198063598.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <20071219140202.995581412E@impelind.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Carl T. Miller
> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 6:27 AM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] VMWare on openSUSE 10.3 Cannot Find C 
> Header Files
> 
> Peter Bart wrote:
> > 	I'm trying to get VMware v5.5.5 configured on openSUSE 
> 10.3. After 
> > issuing ./vmware-install.pl all goes well with the default 
> > configuration until I get to:
> >
> > What is the location of the directory of C header files that match 
> > your running kernel? [/usr/src/linux/include]
> 
> The vmware-install.pl program will find the C header files 
> directory if it's in a "normal" location.  If it can't find 
> it, it offers /usr/src/linux/include as the default option.
> 
> This probably means that you don't have the kernel-source or 
> kernel-headers package installed (I forget which one you need 
> for an OpenSuSE system).  After installing the kernel headers 
> and rerunning vmware-install.pl you should see a valid option 
> appear at this point in the program.
> 
> c
> 

	I concur. It sounds like all you need to do is run Yast2, load up
the Install Software module, type "Kernel" into the search box and then
check to see if you installed the Kernel source. If that is missing, install
it and voila, problem solved.

	-Rob



From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Mon Dec 17 10:17:45 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:17:45 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Soviet Microsoft
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712161438290.28210@banana.sluggo.net>
References: <b67fb0380712161128x667335a1vdae80a825526d205@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712161438290.28210@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <47669319.60309@hotpop.com>

Michael Corral wrote:
> 2007-12-16, Monsieur Michael Rudas a ecrit:
>> "Soviet Microsoft: How Resistance to Free Markets and Open Ideas Will
>> Unravel the Software Superpower"
>> <http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2007/12/13/soviet-microsoft-how-resistance-to-free-markets-and-open-ideas-will-the-unravel-the-software-superpower>
> 
> What a crock of feces that article is.
> 
> Most of the "free market" crowd in fact loves Microsoft. They are,
> according to them, a shining example of how the "free market" rewards
> those "entrepreneurs", like Gates, who have the "vision" and "gumption"
> to start from a small-time operation and become wealthy. Microsoft is
> not in any way trying to form a "planned economy", gimme a break.
> George W. Bush and his ilk (i.e. rabid right-wing anti-Communists)
> *love* Microsoft (notice how they called off the DOJ from nailing MS).

Which is merely evidence that most of the pro-free-market
crowd has been successfully propagandized by Microsoft,
NOT that the article is wrong.

Eric S. Raymond (a pro-free market libertarian) makes
many of the same arguments concerning Microsoft being
VERY adverse to competing in a true free market.


> 
> That article is just absurd. When you have to resort to crude appeals
> to anti-Communism to argue against *Microsoft* (!), you know your
> arguments are weak. What's funny to me is how much of an Apple fanboy
> the guy is, when Apple is in many ways even *worse* than Microsoft
> when it comes to vendor lock-in and restricting choice. At least MS
> allows you to install their crummy OS on any kind of PC, while Apple
> only lets you install their OS on their hardware. Hell, even Sun lets
> you install Solaris on any PC. So all in all, that guy's an idiot.
> 

I think your fondness for socialism has clouded your
understanding of Stallman's point.

> Michael




From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Mon Dec 17 10:30:56 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:30:56 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Soviet Microsoft
In-Reply-To: <4765DD98.3060905@comcast.net>
References: <b67fb0380712161128x667335a1vdae80a825526d205@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712161438290.28210@banana.sluggo.net>
	<4765DD98.3060905@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <47669630.2070200@hotpop.com>

Garry Stahl wrote:
> Michael Corral wrote:
>> 2007-12-16, Monsieur Michael Rudas a ecrit:
>>   
>>> "Soviet Microsoft: How Resistance to Free Markets and Open Ideas Will
>>> Unravel the Software Superpower"
>>> <http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2007/12/13/soviet-microsoft-how-resistance-to-free-markets-and-open-ideas-will-the-unravel-the-software-superpower>
>>>     
>> What a crock of feces that article is.
>>
>> Most of the "free market" crowd in fact loves Microsoft.
> 
> Excelt the so called free market isn't.  Buch and cronies are
> Merchantilists.  They bear the same relation to free market capitalists
> as "soviet socialism" did to communism.
> 
> So there are no free market people in power right now. 
> 


As I recall, the judge on the last big MS lawsuit (Pennfield?)
the one who was kicked off for making factually correct
statements about Gates and other senior executives committing
perjury in his courtroom (which were viewed as "inappropriate
for a judge") was a Reagan appointee.  He's the one who ruled
that MS was absolutely without a doubt guilty (far past the
standard of "beyond reasonable doubt") -- but before the
case got to the remedy phase, he was replaced by Kotalar-Kelly,
who wimped out, and allowed MS to keep it's current configuration
which only ENCOURAGES more of the same.

(Pennfield was considering splitting up MS into two companies.
Most likely an OS company, and an Apps company, most of the
motivation for continued monopolistic behavior would have
been removed.  The Apps people would have no reason to
no port apps.  And the OS people would have nor reason to
provide preferential treatment (disclosure of otherwise
unknown system calls, etc) to the MS-Apps people.  And of
course, this would have also freed OEM's to bundle whatever
software they want with Windows, instead of what MS tells
them to offer as bundling options).




From carl at carltm.com  Thu Dec 20 09:15:56 2007
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 09:15:56 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] It happened...
Message-ID: <3087.216.144.215.245.1198160156.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

I thought I would be at the Canton Public Library for a long
time...perhaps until retirement.  However I chatted with a
recruiter and the next thing I know I've accepted a new position.
I mention this for two reasons.

First, please update your contact lists.  I've sent a lot of
email from the millerc at cantonpl.org address, and it will be
going away shortly.  The carl at carltm.com address is good.

Second, what advice do you have for a cell phone that can
be used for Internet access?  I remember someone mentioning
a certain model of phone that you can buy a USB cable for
and connect without an extra fee.  I don't mind paying extra
for a phone or for service if I can surf at no extra charge.

c




From radkins at impelind.com  Thu Dec 20 12:18:28 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 12:18:28 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] It happened...
In-Reply-To: <3087.216.144.215.245.1198160156.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <20071220172608.6A7831412E@impelind.com>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Carl T. Miller
> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 9:16 AM
> To: undisclosed-recipients:
> Subject: [mdlug] It happened...
> 
> I thought I would be at the Canton Public Library for a long 
> time...perhaps until retirement.  However I chatted with a 
> recruiter and the next thing I know I've accepted a new position.
> I mention this for two reasons.
> 
> First, please update your contact lists.  I've sent a lot of 
> email from the millerc at cantonpl.org address, and it will be 
> going away shortly.  The carl at carltm.com address is good.
> 
> Second, what advice do you have for a cell phone that can be 
> used for Internet access?  I remember someone mentioning a 
> certain model of phone that you can buy a USB cable for and 
> connect without an extra fee.  I don't mind paying extra for 
> a phone or for service if I can surf at no extra charge.
> 
> c

	AT&T has three phone models available with WiFi Internet Access.

	The "Tilt", the 8620 and the iPhone.

	If you plan on using WiFi to access the net, you could always just
keep your current phone and contract and then pick up a less pricey iPod
"Touch", which has WiFi support built in and is otherwise identical to the
iPhone, minus the whole "phone" element.

	We use the "Tilt" and it's an okay unit. It does run Windows Mobile
6, which I am finding to be rather lame, even though it is usable.

	-Rob



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Thu Dec 20 12:50:47 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 12:50:47 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] It happened...
In-Reply-To: <3087.216.144.215.245.1198160156.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBAD44@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Carl T. Miller

> Second, what advice do you have for a cell phone that can
> be used for Internet access?  I remember someone mentioning
> a certain model of phone that you can buy a USB cable for
> and connect without an extra fee.  I don't mind paying extra
> for a phone or for service if I can surf at no extra charge.

 Well, it depends. I assume you mean that the cell provider would be the ISP,
right? You'd be downloading data over the cell signal?

 Different companies have different data plans, and different phones have
different speeds they can download at. None of them can match cable or
fast DSL, but decent speeds (much better than dialup) are possible. They
can cost, though.

 Now, apparently you also want to be able to hook up a laptop to the phone
and essentially use the phone as a 'modem' for the laptop? This can be done,
and there are several phones that do so, though I don't have experience with
that.

 Palm handhelds work with Linux nicely, the support is quite mature. I don't
use my Treo 650 with Windows at all. But Verizon, my carrier, disables "DUN"
(Dial Up Networking) on its phones, and their data plans are pricey, so I
don't do that. (I actually do the reverse, and my Linux box lets my Treo hook
up via Bluetooth and get on the net when I'm at home.) There are hacks to enable
DUN, and other carriers don't disable that (I think Sprint and AT&T?)

 Maybe that'll be of some use...

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                                 (313) 227-2317

 "I do not contribute anything material to the competitive landscape. I am
  there to give players of actual merit a break between epic struggles."
                                - Tycho
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From carl at carltm.com  Thu Dec 20 13:22:49 2007
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 13:22:49 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] It happened...
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBAD44@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.cor
	p>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBAD44@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <24210.216.144.215.245.1198174969.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>  Well, it depends. I assume you mean that the cell provider would be the
> ISP, right? You'd be downloading data over the cell signal?

Yes, I already have WiFi on the laptop.  The cell provider would
be the backup ISP of last resort.

>  Now, apparently you also want to be able to hook up a laptop to the phone
> and essentially use the phone as a 'modem' for the laptop? This can be
> done, and there are several phones that do so, though I don't have
> experience with that.

Well, I guess you could call the phone a modem, although I wouldn't
want to call an ISP.  I'd want to use the cell phone's Internet
connection on my laptop.

>  Palm handhelds work with Linux nicely, the support is quite mature.

Do you know if they will connect a laptop to the Internet using a
cable?

I'm willing to do some research...I'm just hoping someone can
give me a head start in the right direction!

c




From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Thu Dec 20 13:23:35 2007
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 13:23:35 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] It happened...
In-Reply-To: <3087.216.144.215.245.1198160156.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <C3901D57.52B67%GregWojtak@quickenloans.com>

I've had good luck with my Blackberry.  I can browse, do all PDA functions
and ssh into servers.  iPhone is a suitable replacement, too.


On 12/20/07 9:15 AM, "Carl T. Miller" <carl at carltm.com> wrote:

> I thought I would be at the Canton Public Library for a long
> time...perhaps until retirement.  However I chatted with a
> recruiter and the next thing I know I've accepted a new position.
> I mention this for two reasons.
> 
> First, please update your contact lists.  I've sent a lot of
> email from the millerc at cantonpl.org address, and it will be
> going away shortly.  The carl at carltm.com address is good.
> 
> Second, what advice do you have for a cell phone that can
> be used for Internet access?  I remember someone mentioning
> a certain model of phone that you can buy a USB cable for
> and connect without an extra fee.  I don't mind paying extra
> for a phone or for service if I can surf at no extra charge.
> 
> c
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Thu Dec 20 13:55:17 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 13:55:17 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] It happened...
In-Reply-To: <24210.216.144.215.245.1198174969.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBAD46@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Carl T. Miller

> Do you know if they will connect a laptop to the Internet using a
> cable?

 Yup, or Bluetooth (though that's slower).

http://www.newt.com/debian/treo650.html
http://www.wayga.org/blog/2006/10/03/getting-to-the-internet-via-treo-700p-on-linux/

 ...among others. There are also payware programs that emulate USB modems and
similar things, too.

 I imagine Windows Mobile phones can do that, too. I dunno about Blackberry
or Symbian phones, but I wouldn't be surprised. You can also get PCMCIA cards
that let a laptop connect directly to the cell network... though I don't know
how many of those are supported by Linux.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                            (313) 227-2317

 "They say evil happens when good men do nothing. Well, the Democrats
 prove it also happens when mediocre people do nothing." - Bill Maher
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Thu Dec 20 16:01:06 2007
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:01:06 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] It happened...
References: <3087.216.144.215.245.1198160156.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <006701c8434b$705de8f0$6401a8c0@AMD2000>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Carl T. Miller" <carl at carltm.com>
To: <undisclosed-recipients:>
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 9:15 AM
Subject: [mdlug] It happened...


> However I chatted with a recruiter and the next thing I know
> I've accepted a new position.

That's why it's a good idea to NOT talk to recruiters!  ;-)

-Mike


From jcbender at bendorius.com  Thu Dec 20 17:26:13 2007
From: jcbender at bendorius.com (Joseph C. Bender)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:26:13 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] It happened...
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBAD46@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBAD46@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <476AEC05.3000400@bendorius.com>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>> From: Carl T. Miller
> 
>  I imagine Windows Mobile phones can do that, too. I dunno about Blackberry
> or Symbian phones, but I wouldn't be surprised. 
 >
	Yes to both the Symbian and Blackberry devices, though almost all of 
those won't attempt a data call without the provider telling the phone 
they're allowed to be a tethering device (at least on CDMA)

	Of all of these, if you can get something on a CDMA carriers, from a 
speed and latency perspective, it's worth it.  I'd stay away from 
Verizon, as they have been enforcing major caps on how many bits you 
move on their network (which is a rant for another time).

EDGE data service on a GSM carrier (T-mobile, AT&T) is okay, but not 
terribly fast or with decent latency.  If you're in a contract with 
either of those, it does work for casual use.

 > You can also get PCMCIA cards
 > that let a laptop connect directly to the cell network... though
 > I don't know how many of those are supported by Linux.
 >
	If it's a Cardbus EVDO card or USB widget, almost all of the time 
they're using some implementation of a Qualcomm chipset.  The Cardbus 
cards are actually Cardbus-USB bridges that just implement another USB 
controller so the internal USB interface on the card has something to 
connect back to the host with.  All of those devices enumerate in Linux 
such that anything with hotplug running (which most recent distros do 
out of the box, unless it's particularly lame) will detect and load the 
cdc_acm kernel module, with the device showing up as /dev/ttyACM0. 
Phones will either show up as ttyACM or ttyUSB, depending on how the 
phone presents itself on the USB.

	That being said, there's performance problems using the cdc_acm module 
with the EVDO cards, it's kinda inefficient with the speeds they 
actually get (generally higher than cdc_acm was expecting).  That has 
improved in recent kernel releases.  There's a workaround where one can 
either change what hotplug loads, or manually unload cdc_acm and load 
the usbserial with some custom options.

-- 
Joseph Bender
Bendorius Consulting
P: 248-434-5580
F: 248-434-5581
jcbender at bendorius com


From lugnuts at doehler.us  Fri Dec 21 02:47:17 2007
From: lugnuts at doehler.us (Joe Doehler)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 02:47:17 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] It happened...
In-Reply-To: <3087.216.144.215.245.1198160156.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
References: <3087.216.144.215.245.1198160156.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <E1J5cVD-0003Q7-00@doehler.us>

At 09:15 AM 12/20/2007, Carl wrote:
...
 >Second, what advice do you have for a cell phone that can
 >be used for Internet access?  I remember someone mentioning
 >a certain model of phone that you can buy a USB cable for
 >and connect without an extra fee.  I don't mind paying extra
 >for a phone or for service if I can surf at no extra charge.

I have experience using a Siemens S46 and a Motorola V3 tethered to a 
laptop via USB. These are both GSM phones that act as digital modems. 
The first thing I found out is that my carrier blocked DUN: I can't 
dial up to an independent ISP. I believe that this is universal; if 
someone has a different experience, please share it with us.

I must use my carrier as ISP, and therefore had to buy an Internet 
plan add-on. The plans vary; some plans are unlimited, some plans 
charge you by the byte. Some plans charge different rates depending 
on whether you access the Internet from the phone itself as a 
stand-alone, or use the phone in a tethered mode. Some plans restrict 
what web sites you can access, some are wide open. For some plans, 
you must agree to have your phone number captured by the web sites 
you visit (meaning you should expect junk delivered to your phone 
later..) So read the agreements carefully.

Setting up these phones as digital modems was a nightmare. The key is 
in setting the proper modem init string. Customer support was of no 
help, and the provider's web site did not have it anywhere. Another 
aggravation is that the utilities provided by Motorola reset the init 
string in the laptop's configuration files to NULL.

Both of my phones use GPRS for data transfer. Technically, I should 
be able to get ~180Kb/s on good days, when the bandwidth is not 
shared with other users. The most I have ever seen with my V3 is a 
tad over 30Kb/s (about the speed of a 28.8 analog modem;) with the 
S46, about half that. SSH and SCP connections routinely fail after 
about 100KBytes of transfer, but they are getting more reliable with time.

EDGE over GSM is supposed to be faster, but the phone selection 
narrows. I am not sure how much of a speed advantage EDGE has over 
GPRS in real life: I am not getting the full promise of GPRS, so why 
would I with EDGE?

I would not recommend this setup for primary Internet access - only 
for "plan B" if you need it :-)

Joe.



From jcbender at bendorius.com  Fri Dec 21 09:21:12 2007
From: jcbender at bendorius.com (Joseph C. Bender)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:21:12 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] It happened...
In-Reply-To: <E1J5cVD-0003Q7-00@doehler.us>
References: <3087.216.144.215.245.1198160156.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
	<E1J5cVD-0003Q7-00@doehler.us>
Message-ID: <476BCBD8.6040609@bendorius.com>

Joe Doehler wrote:
> ...
> I have experience using a Siemens S46 and a Motorola V3 tethered to a 
> laptop via USB. These are both GSM phones that act as digital modems. 
> The first thing I found out is that my carrier blocked DUN: I can't 
> dial up to an independent ISP. I believe that this is universal; if 
> someone has a different experience, please share it with us.
> 
	This is because dialing ATDT*99 (or #777 on CMDA) creates a virtual PPP 
connection via termination cards at the MTSO.  Dialing an ISP as a modem 
actually requires that the phone support phone-as-modem mode and that 
the carrier have *other* cards at the MTSO that are MODEM banks that 
actually place the modem call.  A lot of carriers do not implement this, 
it's terribly expensive to them for not much gain.  T-Mobile is the only 
GSM carrier that I'm aware of that does this, and I last used it back in 
2005 or so.  They implemented it largely because they do have a plan 
bolt-on that allows for fax send/receive, and that requires the same 
modem cards at the MTSO.  You're going to get no more than 9600 bps, 
though.  That's the most bandwidth that you can stuff onto a GSM call. 
Oh, and it counts as a regular phonecall, so it'll be burning minutes 
off your plan, too.

(MTSO being mobile telephone switching office, the local cell-switch 
where your calls actually hit the telephone network and terminate from)

> Setting up these phones as digital modems was a nightmare. The key is 
> in setting the proper modem init string. Customer support was of no 
> help, and the provider's web site did not have it anywhere. Another 
> aggravation is that the utilities provided by Motorola reset the init 
> string in the laptop's configuration files to NULL.
> 
	The big issue is the APN string.  This is a AT command (AT+CGDCONT=, 
IIRC) that sets the mobile access point address so your phone knows 
where to throw a GPRS/EDGE connection at.  Googling for "<carrier name> 
APN string" usually provides the required information.

> Both of my phones use GPRS for data transfer. Technically, I should 
> be able to get ~180Kb/s on good days, when the bandwidth is not 
> shared with other users. The most I have ever seen with my V3 is a 
> tad over 30Kb/s (about the speed of a 28.8 analog modem;) with the 
> S46, about half that. SSH and SCP connections routinely fail after 
> about 100KBytes of transfer, but they are getting more reliable with time.
> 
	It depends on how busy the local tower is, as GPRS shares timeslots 
with the voice calls.

	If you're supposed to be getting 180Kb/s, chances are you have a EDGE 
phone anyway.  28.8 tends to suggest that you've either got a really old 
GPRS phone or that the local tower is horrible.  If the phones don't 
support GPRS class 10 or better, you're not going to see the speeds.

	Out of curiosity, what carrier and what area are you trying this in?

> EDGE over GSM is supposed to be faster, but the phone selection 
> narrows. I am not sure how much of a speed advantage EDGE has over 
> GPRS in real life: I am not getting the full promise of GPRS, so why 
> would I with EDGE?
> 
	Latency goes down drastically on EDGE, and I have seen decent 
performance with it.  The modulations/encodations are vastly different, 
you get more bits per GSM timeslot with EDGE.  The tower can also hand 
you more timeslots, or configure them better, theoretically as well.  It 
does largely depend on the phone, yes.  Phonescoop.com will give the 
specs of a given phone.

> I would not recommend this setup for primary Internet access - only 
> for "plan B" if you need it :-)
> 
	Indeed.  If you want cellular wireless as primary, get EVDO on a CDMA 
carrier.  Until the GSM carriers get UMTS or HSDPA rolled out, it's 
going to be slow.  Why Apple made the utterly, utterly stupid decision 
not to make a CDMA version of the iPhone, I do not know).



-- 
Joseph Bender
Bendorius Consulting
P: 248-434-5580
F: 248-434-5581
jcbender at bendorius com


From radkins at impelind.com  Fri Dec 21 10:44:00 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 10:44:00 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel Testing Methods
Message-ID: <20071221155142.68BC01412E@impelind.com>

	Hey,

	I would like to check/confirm that the kernels I am building are
"better" than the default vendor supplied kernels. I've done some Googling
and seen little more than restuls of tests with nothing particularly
concrete stating "THIS IS WHAT TO DO FOR TESTING!!!"

	Anyone have any pointers?

	Thanks.

	-Rob



From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Fri Dec 21 11:38:46 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:38:46 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel Testing Methods
In-Reply-To: <20071221155142.68BC01412E@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF0ABBAD4A@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Robert Adkins

> 	I would like to check/confirm that the kernels I am building are
> "better" than the default vendor supplied kernels.

 "Better" depends almost entirely on what you are doing. Are you compiling? Serving
files? Doing numerical computation? Surfing the web? Playing video? Some kernel
changes will make one of those better and reduce performance in another area. That's
one reason why there's no 'concrete' advice on what tests to run.

 If you're worried about disk I/O, try bonnie. A kernel compile can itself be a
good stress test. Beyond that... I dunno. What do you care about?

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                     (313) 227-2317

 "Personally, I've been hearing all my life about the Serious
 Philosophical Issues posed by life extension, and my attitude
 has always been that I'm willing to grapple with those issues
 for as many centuries as it takes." - Patrick Nielsen Hayden
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Fri Dec 21 21:45:49 2007
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 21:45:49 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] It happened...
In-Reply-To: <3087.216.144.215.245.1198160156.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
References: <3087.216.144.215.245.1198160156.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <20071221214549.42f62aee@Nokia-N800-26>

On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 09:15:56 -0500 (EST)
"Carl T. Miller" <carl at carltm.com> wrote:

> I thought I would be at the Canton Public Library for a long
> time...perhaps until retirement.  However I chatted with a
> recruiter and the next thing I know I've accepted a new position.
> I mention this for two reasons.
> 
> First, please update your contact lists.  I've sent a lot of
> email from the millerc at cantonpl.org address, and it will be
> going away shortly.  The carl at carltm.com address is good.


Congratulations!


> 
> Second, what advice do you have for a cell phone that can
> be used for Internet access?  I remember someone mentioning
> a certain model of phone that you can buy a USB cable for
> and connect without an extra fee.  I don't mind paying extra
> for a phone or for service if I can surf at no extra charge.

	Up until today I used a Motorola E815 on Verizon's network to
occasionally connect to the internet. I would connect to the phone via
bluetooth and used it to email, no surfing. It has some sort of
Motorola data port. Since Verizon is militant about not allowing
bluetooth data transfer I used a hack I found on Howard Forums to
enable DUN. I know they guard their data network (EVDO?) just as
seriously. If you're going to use it a lot I would suggest a data plan.
I just replaced the E815 w/a Nokia 6315i. I don't know much other than
it supports bluetooth data transfer and has some sort of Nokia data
port. I turned off a Sprint/Nextel phone and replaced it with a
Motorola W385 on Verizon. This one has a mini usb port and supports
bluetooth DUN, ftp and opp. I cancelled Sprint because their reception
sucks and their customer service is worse. To bad, they have Wimax.
	I hope this helps.
Best Regards,

-- 
Peter The Plumber sm on the Road
State Licensed Plumber


From gib at juno.com  Fri Dec 21 22:25:02 2007
From: gib at juno.com (gib at juno.com)
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 03:25:02 GMT
Subject: [mdlug]  It happened... - WiMax
Message-ID: <20071221.222502.24759.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>


You mentioned WiMax.  What have you heard?

-- Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net> wrote:
On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 09:15:56 -0500 (EST)
"Carl T. Miller" <carl at carltm.com> wrote:

> I thought I would be at the Canton Public Library for a long
> time...perhaps until retirement.  However I chatted with a
> recruiter and the next thing I know I've accepted a new position.
> I mention this for two reasons.
> 
> First, please update your contact lists.  I've sent a lot of
> email from the millerc at cantonpl.org address, and it will be
> going away shortly.  The carl at carltm.com address is good.


Congratulations!


> 
> Second, what advice do you have for a cell phone that can
> be used for Internet access?  I remember someone mentioning
> a certain model of phone that you can buy a USB cable for
> and connect without an extra fee.  I don't mind paying extra
> for a phone or for service if I can surf at no extra charge.

	Up until today I used a Motorola E815 on Verizon's network to
occasionally connect to the internet. I would connect to the phone via
bluetooth and used it to email, no surfing. It has some sort of
Motorola data port. Since Verizon is militant about not allowing
bluetooth data transfer I used a hack I found on Howard Forums to
enable DUN. I know they guard their data network (EVDO?) just as
seriously. If you're going to use it a lot I would suggest a data plan.
I just replaced the E815 w/a Nokia 6315i. I don't know much other than
it supports bluetooth data transfer and has some sort of Nokia data
port. I turned off a Sprint/Nextel phone and replaced it with a
Motorola W385 on Verizon. This one has a mini usb port and supports
bluetooth DUN, ftp and opp. I cancelled Sprint because their reception
sucks and their customer service is worse. To bad, they have Wimax.
	I hope this helps.
Best Regards,

-- 
Peter The Plumber sm on the Road
State Licensed Plumber
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug

_____________________________________________________________
Planning for retirement? Click for free information on 401(k) plans.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iiejsYRiPGBd2d3bUeB8B5mdbjOBrSS0jTXWns7ZIs3cx5FJK/




From peter at petertheplumber.net  Sat Dec 22 11:09:02 2007
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 11:09:02 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] It happened... - WiMax
In-Reply-To: <20071221.222502.24759.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20071221.222502.24759.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <20071222110902.2231f60e@Nokia-N800-26>

On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 03:25:02 GMT
"gib at juno.com" <gib at juno.com> wrote:

> 
> You mentioned WiMax.  What have you heard?
> 

Hi Everyone,
	Sprint has Wimax scheduled for launch spring 2008
<http://www.xohm.com/>. They seem to be the first. To bad they have
Nextel dragging them down, I had one of those too. Really good for a
short time then crash and burn. Sprint seems to have inherited that and
absolutely *horrible* customer service from them. So bad I paid my ETF
to get rid of them. I'm going back to a pager for emergency contact,
backup for cell svc and use in places I'm not supposed to use cellular.
	From what I hear Wimax is supposed to render wifi, wireless
broadband cards obsolete. We'll see, I'm somewhat cynical. Wifi is
ubiquitous and free although you have to be stationary, I'm sure
Wimax will be a subscription service but it is much more mobile.
Since I'm a guy, I can't do more than one thing at a time w/o
forgetting to breath. So driving and surfing are out for me. I'm sure
it will have lots of uses, didn't someone bring a Wimax device to a
meeting? You can find lots more here
<http://www.altavista.com/web/results?itag=ody&q=Wimax&kgs=0&kls=0>. 

Best Regards,
-- 
Peter The Plumber sm on the Road
State Licensed Plumber


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Fri Dec 21 11:13:09 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:13:09 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel Testing Methods
In-Reply-To: <20071221155142.68BC01412E@impelind.com>
References: <20071221155142.68BC01412E@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <476BE615.5010609@hotpop.com>

Robert Adkins wrote:
> 	Hey,
> 
> 	I would like to check/confirm that the kernels I am building are
> "better" than the default vendor supplied kernels. I've done some Googling
> and seen little more than restuls of tests with nothing particularly
> concrete stating "THIS IS WHAT TO DO FOR TESTING!!!"
> 
> 	Anyone have any pointers?

Place kernels in pan with cooking oil and apply heat.
See how long it take for them to pop.




From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Sat Dec 22 14:44:27 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 14:44:27 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Looking for info regarding Linux server FSH standard
	practices when sharing files
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712221144s45fb8768u88648a8a35db5e37@mail.gmail.com>

I'm in the middle of setting up a new server and I need to create
network shares of several large archives of add-ons and updates to
various OSes and applications.  What is the standard practice for the
location of files that will be accessed by many users on a network but
not belonging to a specific user?  Something like "/home/public" or
should it be somewhere in /var?


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Sat Dec 22 15:00:27 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 15:00:27 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Looking for info regarding Linux server FSH standard
 practices when sharing files
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90712221144s45fb8768u88648a8a35db5e37@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e90712221144s45fb8768u88648a8a35db5e37@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <476D6CDB.7010606@hotpop.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> I'm in the middle of setting up a new server and I need to create
> network shares of several large archives of add-ons and updates to
> various OSes and applications.  What is the standard practice for the
> location of files that will be accessed by many users on a network but
> not belonging to a specific user?  Something like "/home/public" or
> should it be somewhere in /var?

remember...the computer and the environment of it's data
is all a MAN-MADE UNIVERSE...therefore...DO WHAT MAKES SENSE.



/data
/local/public

/home is for home directories (although I have put other
things in the /home filesystem, I would never advocate
that a path beginning with /home be used for public
access...if you do that, make a symbolic link, like this:

ln -s /home/public /public

So that it appears under /public.)

/local/public would be a good choice.

Publicizing a path name that begins with /home/ for
public data violates the "do what makes sense" rule.

what DOES make sense is a path name that implies
what it's used for.

[Use the magic of symbolic links to make the
data PHYSICALLY reside on whatever file system
makes the most sense for you... /local and /home
are good for being left alone when you decide
to install a new version of the OS (i.e. clean
install instead of "upgrade")




From relson at osagesoftware.com  Sat Dec 22 15:34:58 2007
From: relson at osagesoftware.com (David Relson)
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 15:34:58 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] It happened...
In-Reply-To: <3087.216.144.215.245.1198160156.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
References: <3087.216.144.215.245.1198160156.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <20071222153458.28904e75@osage.osagesoftware.com>

On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 09:15:56 -0500 (EST)
Carl T. Miller wrote:

> I thought I would be at the Canton Public Library for a long
> time...perhaps until retirement.  However I chatted with a
> recruiter and the next thing I know I've accepted a new position.
> I mention this for two reasons.
> 
> First, please update your contact lists.  I've sent a lot of
> email from the millerc at cantonpl.org address, and it will be
> going away shortly.  The carl at carltm.com address is good.
> 
> Second, what advice do you have for a cell phone that can
> be used for Internet access?  I remember someone mentioning
> a certain model of phone that you can buy a USB cable for
> and connect without an extra fee.  I don't mind paying extra
> for a phone or for service if I can surf at no extra charge.
> 
> c

Carl, 

You've been a sys admin at Canton PL as long as I've known you.
What's your encore?  Another sys admin position?  Another library?
Industry?

Enquiring minds want to know :->

David


From rstaff at sprynet.com  Sun Dec 23 15:30:56 2007
From: rstaff at sprynet.com (Richard Staff)
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 15:30:56 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Soviet Microsoft
In-Reply-To: <47669630.2070200@hotpop.com>
References: <b67fb0380712161128x667335a1vdae80a825526d205@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.LFD.0.999999.0712161438290.28210@banana.sluggo.net>	<4765DD98.3060905@comcast.net>
	<47669630.2070200@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <476EC580.8000302@sprynet.com>

Aaron nailed it.  Monopolies are anti- free market entities.
Breaking up the Microsloth into OS and application units would have 
brought freedom to the software market.  However the Cheney 
Administration made sure that this did not happen.
Oh well.
Happy Holidays anyways (a blessed Christmas/Kwanzaa/Hanukkah),
Rick
P.S. Please forgive lateness of response, I am only checking my emails 
weekly now.
=================[]
Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> Garry Stahl wrote:
>   
>> Michael Corral wrote:
>>     
>>> 2007-12-16, Monsieur Michael Rudas a ecrit:
>>>   
>>>       
>>>> "Soviet Microsoft: How Resistance to Free Markets and Open Ideas Will
>>>> Unravel the Software Superpower"
>>>> <http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2007/12/13/soviet-microsoft-how-resistance-to-free-markets-and-open-ideas-will-the-unravel-the-software-superpower>
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>> What a crock of feces that article is.
>>>
>>> Most of the "free market" crowd in fact loves Microsoft.
>>>       
>> Excelt the so called free market isn't.  Buch and cronies are
>> Merchantilists.  They bear the same relation to free market capitalists
>> as "soviet socialism" did to communism.
>>
>> So there are no free market people in power right now. 
>>
>>     
>
>
> As I recall, the judge on the last big MS lawsuit (Pennfield?)
> the one who was kicked off for making factually correct
> statements about Gates and other senior executives committing
> perjury in his courtroom (which were viewed as "inappropriate
> for a judge") was a Reagan appointee.  He's the one who ruled
> that MS was absolutely without a doubt guilty (far past the
> standard of "beyond reasonable doubt") -- but before the
> case got to the remedy phase, he was replaced by Kotalar-Kelly,
> who wimped out, and allowed MS to keep it's current configuration
> which only ENCOURAGES more of the same.
>
> (Pennfield was considering splitting up MS into two companies.
> Most likely an OS company, and an Apps company, most of the
> motivation for continued monopolistic behavior would have
> been removed.  The Apps people would have no reason to
> no port apps.  And the OS people would have nor reason to
> provide preferential treatment (disclosure of otherwise
> unknown system calls, etc) to the MS-Apps people.  And of
> course, this would have also freed OEM's to bundle whatever
> software they want with Windows, instead of what MS tells
> them to offer as bundling options).
>
>   


From otakurider at gmail.com  Mon Dec 24 11:30:40 2007
From: otakurider at gmail.com (-)
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 11:30:40 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Stock tracking program
Message-ID: <cd5131a50712240830h3476ae11h9d43a8f894962bc7@mail.gmail.com>

Anyone have any programs they have seen to track stock investments.  I have
tried GnuCash but it seems a bit more work that I have been looking for and
importing my files from my broker accounts seem to have some problems.
Currently I use Microsoft Money but want to go to open source.


Thanks


Pat
VP MDLUG


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Mon Dec 24 13:31:07 2007
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 13:31:07 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] openSUSE 10.3 Flash and Install Oddities
Message-ID: <1198521067.3746.58.camel@plumber.site>

Happy Holidays Everyone,
	A few notes on the install of openSUSE 10.3 on two laptops as I
struggle a little. I've found that the install with online repositories
enabled requires a root partition of over 1Gig. At the point in the
install where the update occurs is where root becomes overloaded. I
don't know if that's my problem trying to get the right screen
resolution on a 1440x900 17" display, but we'll see. This comes out of
me not using the install recommended three partitions. The reason I
didn't use that, is with that scheme on an IBM T22 (with a small(ish)
hard drive) flash only will play for the first few seconds. Since it
plays fine on my T30, and the only difference besides hardware was the
partitioning; I tried my partitioning scheme. That is roughly as follows
with swap being twice the amount of ram. That comes from hearing suspend
may need that to work? Comments??

plumber:~ # df -h
Filesystem            Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/sda1            1012M  211M  750M  22% /
udev                  506M   88K  506M   1% /dev
/dev/sda2              54M   27M   24M  53% /boot
/dev/sda9              26G   14G   11G  58% /home
/dev/sda8             2.5G  137M  2.3G   6% /opt
/dev/sda7            1012M  155M  806M  17% /tmp
/dev/sda3             5.0G  3.5G  1.3G  75% /usr
/dev/sda6            1012M  423M  538M  45% /var
   
Besides the install complaining of running out of space at the online
update stage there seemed to be no ill effects for the T22. df -h
reports about 1/3 of the 1Gig root partition is used once the install
was done on the T22. And flash works!?! I'm having a little harder time
with a Toshiba P205-S6347, I can't seem to get part of the display in
the right resolution. The desktop is correct but the Gnome panels
display in the middle of the screen. Also I'm using the 64bit version of
openSUSE 10.3. Interestingly enough the screen displays correctly using
the installers suggested partitioning but flash doesn't work? I hope
this helps someone, even idiots as I can stumble across a solution from
time to time!

Best Regards,
-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Dec 24 14:02:59 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 14:02:59 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Stock tracking program
In-Reply-To: <cd5131a50712240830h3476ae11h9d43a8f894962bc7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cd5131a50712240830h3476ae11h9d43a8f894962bc7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712241102k76900b4byc43ce8534048202@mail.gmail.com>

On Dec 24, 2007 11:30 AM, - <otakurider at gmail.com> wrote:
> Anyone have any programs they have seen to track stock investments.  I have
> tried GnuCash but it seems a bit more work that I have been looking for and
> importing my files from my broker accounts seem to have some problems.
> Currently I use Microsoft Money but want to go to open source.

I haven't used any but look here for leads:

http://www.linuxlinks.com/Software/Financial/Stockmarket/
http://www.linux.org/apps/all/Office/Financial-1.html?sort=author
http://freshmeat.net/articles/view/269/

Once you've compared them all you can present your findings at the
next meeting. :)


From mdlug at sbcglobal.net  Mon Dec 24 16:42:36 2007
From: mdlug at sbcglobal.net (Dean Durant)
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 13:42:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] video card recommendation?
Message-ID: <17092.46758.qm@web81802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello, I am looking for a video card for Mepis 6.5.    What I have now is built in video on the mobo on a cheap box I bought off the net.   The video has some issues, like lines across the page in certain apps.   So I'm thinking it's the hardware, not Mepis.   I don't know what kind of slots the mobo has.    Is there a good brand of card that is designed to work with Linux?    Are there video card vendors that are sympathetic to linux?    Thanks, Dean


From wolfger at gmail.com  Mon Dec 24 17:56:53 2007
From: wolfger at gmail.com (Wolfger)
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 17:56:53 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] video card recommendation?
In-Reply-To: <17092.46758.qm@web81802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <17092.46758.qm@web81802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3b00b3330712241456g1dc28765i38dc63e00eae02cb@mail.gmail.com>

I love Nvidia for Linux. I'm using a GeForce 7100 GS (or is it GX?).
Nivida without 3D acceleration works fantastic with Free drivers, and
Nvidia writes proprietary drivers for Linux that get the 3D working.

On Dec 24, 2007 4:42 PM, Dean Durant <mdlug at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Hello, I am looking for a video card for Mepis 6.5.    What I have now is built in video on the mobo on a cheap box I bought off the net.   The video has some issues, like lines across the page in certain apps.   So I'm thinking it's the hardware, not Mepis.   I don't know what kind of slots the mobo has.    Is there a good brand of card that is designed to work with Linux?    Are there video card vendors that are sympathetic to linux?    Thanks, Dean
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>



-- 
Wolfger
http://wolfger.wordpress.com/
AOL IM: wolf4coyot
Yahoo!Messenger: wolfgersilberbaer


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Dec 24 18:54:36 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 18:54:36 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] video card recommendation?
In-Reply-To: <17092.46758.qm@web81802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <17092.46758.qm@web81802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712241554q785c2234m93b6bc37ce3838e0@mail.gmail.com>

On Dec 24, 2007 4:42 PM, Dean Durant <mdlug at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Hello, I am looking for a video card for Mepis 6.5.    What I have now is built in video on the mobo on a cheap box I bought off the net.   The video has some issues, like lines across the page in certain apps.   So I'm thinking it's the hardware, not Mepis.   I don't know what kind of slots the mobo has.    Is there a good brand of card that is designed to work with Linux?    Are there video card vendors that are sympathetic to linux?    Thanks, Dean

What type of interface - ISA, EISA, MCA, PCI, AGP, PCIe?


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Tue Dec 25 13:29:29 2007
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 13:29:29 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Earthlink Feather Not WiMax?
Message-ID: <20071225132929.5ae5823e@Nokia-N800-26>

	Something some may be interested in even though it's not yet
offered in our area. <http://www.earthlink.net/wifi/> Earthlink Feather
was offered free for a time on the Nokia N800.
<https://home.feather.net/nokia/n800/main> I know nothing more about
it, but I would be curious to know plans for rollout and what
technology they're using.

Best Regards,

-- 
Peter The Plumber sm on the Road
State Licensed Plumber


From z_mikowski at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 25 21:23:36 2007
From: z_mikowski at yahoo.com (Michael Mikowski)
Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 18:23:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] video card recommendation?
Message-ID: <69459.43651.qm@web52607.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi Dean:

I'm with Wolfger.  Do yourself a *huge* favor and buy NVidia; at this point, the tools and performance are vastly superior to ATI, although it appears that may change in the next few months.  nvidia-settings is excellent for dynamically adjusting your X server as you add or detach displays.

The 7XXX series is very well supported (e.g. 7800 GTX), even in SLI (yes, I had an SLI Linux rig once; it was great for UT2003, but overkill for my purposes).  The 8XXX series at last report did not significantly exceed the 7XXX cards in performance.  So you might skip the 8XXX series unless you a) really want cutting edge performance and are willing to wait for the drivers on Linux; or b) find a 8XXX series card for a comparable price (e.g. the 8300 GS).

$0.02

Cheers, Mike

p.s. Just bought me mum a Ubuntu Linux Dell (Inspiron 530) for x-mas.   Promptly dumped Ubuntu 7.04 for Kubuntu 7.10.  It was great to have all hardware pre-certified for Linux, and it included Nvidia 8300GS which performs great with most games and Google Earth.  The base box was $499 with 1G memory and 250GB HD; a 22" samsung widescreen added around $115.  Quite a bargain -- 2 years ago, the screen *alone* would have cost more than the entire system.  Highly recommended.

----- Original Message ----
From: Wolfger <wolfger at gmail.com>
To: MDLUG's Main discussion list <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 5:56:53 PM
Subject: Re: [mdlug] video card recommendation?


I love Nvidia for Linux. I'm using a GeForce 7100 GS (or is it GX?).
Nivida without 3D acceleration works fantastic with Free drivers, and
Nvidia writes proprietary drivers for Linux that get the 3D working.

On Dec 24, 2007 4:42 PM, Dean Durant <mdlug at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Hello, I am looking for a video card for Mepis 6.5.    What I have
 now is built in video on the mobo on a cheap box I bought off the net.  
 The video has some issues, like lines across the page in certain apps.
   So I'm thinking it's the hardware, not Mepis.   I don't know what
 kind of slots the mobo has.    Is there a good brand of card that is
 designed to work with Linux?    Are there video card vendors that are
 sympathetic to linux?    Thanks, Dean
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>



-- 
Wolfger
http://wolfger.wordpress.com/
AOL IM: wolf4coyot
Yahoo!Messenger: wolfgersilberbaer
_______________________________________________
mdlug mailing list
mdlug at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug





From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Tue Dec 25 22:39:25 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 22:39:25 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] video card recommendation?
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90712241554q785c2234m93b6bc37ce3838e0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <17092.46758.qm@web81802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<b02c40e90712241554q785c2234m93b6bc37ce3838e0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712251939od1d9c9ar4592843610062a4c@mail.gmail.com>

On Dec 24, 2007 6:54 PM, Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com> wrote:
>I don't know what kind of slots the mobo has.    Is there a good
brand of card that is designed to work with Linux?    Are there video
card vendors that are sympathetic to linux?    Thanks, Dean
>
> What type of interface - ISA, EISA, MCA, PCI, AGP, PCIe?

Maybe that was a mildly stupid question.  I overlooked the unknown
slots issue.  But realistically, you need to identify the slots as it
greatly affects what is available.  Most systems are using PCIe.
There are some good cards for AGP but they are more expensive because
manufacturing volumes are dwindling.  If it only has PCI then throw it
out.  Higher-end PCI cards do exist but they are not worth it.  A new
MB with integrated video would be faster and cheaper than any modern
PCI card.


From micorral at comcast.net  Tue Dec 25 23:06:23 2007
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 23:06:23 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] video card recommendation?
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90712251939od1d9c9ar4592843610062a4c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <17092.46758.qm@web81802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<b02c40e90712241554q785c2234m93b6bc37ce3838e0@mail.gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90712251939od1d9c9ar4592843610062a4c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.1.00.0712252257350.7837@banana.sluggo.net>

2007-12-25, Monsieur Jeff Hanson a ecrit:
> On Dec 24, 2007 6:54 PM, Jeff Hanson <jhansonxi at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I don't know what kind of slots the mobo has.    Is there a good
> brand of card that is designed to work with Linux?    Are there video
> card vendors that are sympathetic to linux?    Thanks, Dean
>>
>> What type of interface - ISA, EISA, MCA, PCI, AGP, PCIe?
>
> Maybe that was a mildly stupid question.

I was thinking more along the lines that you left out VLB. :)

As far as video card vendors that are sympathetic to Linux, I'd
say Intel. They've open-sourced the drivers for their video chipsets,
unlike Nvidia and ATI (although ATI has announced that they will
open-source the drivers for their newer cards).

If having open-source drivers doesn't matter, then toss a coin
between ATI and Nvidia. They both have proprietary drivers that
work with Linux, both have their detractors and fanboys. Getting
into an ATI vs Nvidia debate is like getting into KDE vs GNOME,
Emacs vs vi, etc. (i.e. Good vs Evil :).

Michael


From tesral at comcast.net  Tue Dec 25 23:26:31 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 23:26:31 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Modem question
Message-ID: <4771D7F7.5000609@comcast.net>

I have a friend on limited income, so a 70 buck modem is out of the
question.

However, I need a phone modem that will work with Open Suse 10.3.  Cheap
suggestions are welcome.  No, he doesn't have DSL or cable service.  I
would prefer that.  I haven't configured a modem since the 90s, and
never under Linux.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From carl at carltm.com  Wed Dec 26 00:20:51 2007
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 00:20:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Modem question
In-Reply-To: <4771D7F7.5000609@comcast.net>
References: <4771D7F7.5000609@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <2184.216.144.215.245.1198646451.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

Garry Stahl wrote:
> I have a friend on limited income, so a 70 buck modem is out of the
> question.
>
> However, I need a phone modem that will work with Open Suse 10.3.  Cheap
> suggestions are welcome.  No, he doesn't have DSL or cable service.  I
> would prefer that.  I haven't configured a modem since the 90s, and
> never under Linux.

A few years ago I found some inexpensive ones made by ActionTec that
worked well under Linux.  I recall I paid about $10 for either the
USB or PCI version.

If ActionTec isn't available any more, I'd suggest lookomg up the cheap
brands and do a Google search to find if anyone has made that particular
model work in Linux.

c




From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Wed Dec 26 01:02:36 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 01:02:36 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Modem question
In-Reply-To: <4771D7F7.5000609@comcast.net>
References: <4771D7F7.5000609@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712252202p18a5ced3ga4334cec8d7bf419@mail.gmail.com>

On Dec 25, 2007 11:26 PM, Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:
> I have a friend on limited income, so a 70 buck modem is out of the
> question.
>
> However, I need a phone modem that will work with Open Suse 10.3.  Cheap
> suggestions are welcome.  No, he doesn't have DSL or cable service.  I
> would prefer that.  I haven't configured a modem since the 90s, and
> never under Linux.

I recently tried to get one of my dozen different softmodems to work
on Ubuntu Feisty reliably.  I failed.  Ubuntu will not include any
closed drivers so manual compilation was necessary (and difficult).
Maybe Suse is better.  There is a database link on the following page
which can tell you what is possible:
http://132.68.73.235/linmodems/index.html#linmodems

If you have a softmodem to test, run the scanmodem script that is
available at that site.  If you can't figure out the reports then send
it to their mailing list.  Subscription info is at
http://www.linmodems.org

External serial-port controller-based modems are more expensive but
any idiot can install one.


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Wed Dec 26 03:19:40 2007
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 03:19:40 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] video card recommendation?
In-Reply-To: <3b00b3330712241456g1dc28765i38dc63e00eae02cb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <17092.46758.qm@web81802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<3b00b3330712241456g1dc28765i38dc63e00eae02cb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380712260019s4744937ay6a031667320a777d@mail.gmail.com>

Wolfger wrote:
> Dean Durant wrote:
>> Hello, I am looking for a video card for Mepis 6.5.    What I have now
>> is built in video on the mobo on a cheap box I bought off the net.
>> The video has some issues, like lines across the page in certain apps.
>> I don't know what kind of slots the mobo has.
>> Is there a good brand of card that is designed to work with Linux?

> I love Nvidia for Linux. I'm using a GeForce 7100 GS (or is it GX?).
> Nivida without 3D acceleration works fantastic with Free drivers, and
> Nvidia writes proprietary drivers for Linux that get the 3D working.

I, too, much prefer nVidia over ATi for video cards -- both in general
and for Linux (I'm an nV user since the original 1997-vintage 4MB
Riva) -- but we need to know what kind of video slot you have
available.  Please provide the brand and model number of the mobo so
we can help you better.

As a long-time computer tech, I do have experience with both nV and
ATi -- not to mention that   I'm forced to use an ATi card in
Ariel/Loki (my 2nd system) due to nV driver issues in WinXP on its
mobo.

~~ Mikey


From audiotech50 at gmail.com  Wed Dec 26 03:28:02 2007
From: audiotech50 at gmail.com (Michael Rudas)
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 03:28:02 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Modem question
In-Reply-To: <4771D7F7.5000609@comcast.net>
References: <4771D7F7.5000609@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <b67fb0380712260028y2004117ey7e63835ed681561@mail.gmail.com>

Garry Stahl wrote:
> I have a friend on limited income, so a 70 buck modem is out of the
> question.
> However, I need a phone modem that will work with Open Suse 10.3.  Cheap
> suggestions are welcome.

Look for a modem with an Intel chipset.  They are cheap, most under
$15, and they have Linux drivers available.  As far as support for the
cheap, ubiquitous WinModems, you can look at
<http://www.linmodems.org> for Linux driver info on some of the
commonly-available (but inferior) hardware.

You may also be able to find a used external modem for cheap.

~~ Mikey


From mrorourke at earthlink.net  Wed Dec 26 12:23:26 2007
From: mrorourke at earthlink.net (Michael ORourke)
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 12:23:26 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Modem question
References: <4771D7F7.5000609@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <001201c847e4$06934710$6401a8c0@AMD2000>

Do you need an ISA or PCI modem card?  I have a couple of old modem cards in 
my parts bin and would be happy to donate one.  Not a 100% sure they are 
Linux compatible, but I suspect they might be.

-Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Garry Stahl" <tesral at comcast.net>
To: "mdLUG Main" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 11:26 PM
Subject: [mdlug] Modem question


>I have a friend on limited income, so a 70 buck modem is out of the
> question.
>
> However, I need a phone modem that will work with Open Suse 10.3.  Cheap
> suggestions are welcome.  No, he doesn't have DSL or cable service.  I
> would prefer that.  I haven't configured a modem since the 90s, and
> never under Linux.
>
> -- 
> Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.
>
> Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
> Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
> The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.9/1197 - Release Date: 
> 12/25/2007 8:04 PM
>
> 



From muteid10t at gmail.com  Wed Dec 26 12:34:23 2007
From: muteid10t at gmail.com (Ron Blanchett)
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 12:34:23 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Modem question
In-Reply-To: <001201c847e4$06934710$6401a8c0@AMD2000>
References: <4771D7F7.5000609@comcast.net>
	<001201c847e4$06934710$6401a8c0@AMD2000>
Message-ID: <52995d720712260934g1467a2n9cd1a3c800902dbf@mail.gmail.com>

when in doubt turn to ebay, I just did a search for USRobotics 56k and
found several modems (not winmodems) for about $10 - $15.

If that is not an option I have several older USR modems at home (all
none winmodems).


On 12/26/07, Michael ORourke <mrorourke at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Do you need an ISA or PCI modem card?  I have a couple of old modem cards in
> my parts bin and would be happy to donate one.  Not a 100% sure they are
> Linux compatible, but I suspect they might be.
>
> -Mike
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Garry Stahl" <tesral at comcast.net>
> To: "mdLUG Main" <mdlug at mdlug.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 11:26 PM
> Subject: [mdlug] Modem question
>
>
> >I have a friend on limited income, so a 70 buck modem is out of the
> > question.
> >
> > However, I need a phone modem that will work with Open Suse 10.3.  Cheap
> > suggestions are welcome.  No, he doesn't have DSL or cable service.  I
> > would prefer that.  I haven't configured a modem since the 90s, and
> > never under Linux.
> >
> > --
> > Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.
> >
> > Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
> > Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
> > The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > mdlug mailing list
> > mdlug at mdlug.org
> > http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.9/1197 - Release Date:
> > 12/25/2007 8:04 PM
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Wed Dec 26 14:51:18 2007
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 14:51:18 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Scripting - Newlines getting clobbered?
Message-ID: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE033ADA16@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

I am trying to read a multi-line file into a variable, and the lines are
getting concatenated together in one big line.  So a file that contains

line 1
line 2
line 3
line d
line 6

would look like line 1 line 2 line 3 line d line 6 when I do:

VAR=`cat data`
echo $VAR

Any ideas how to keep the newline inside of variables?

Thanks!

Greg 


From carl at carltm.com  Wed Dec 26 15:18:39 2007
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 15:18:39 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Scripting - Newlines getting clobbered?
In-Reply-To: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE033ADA16@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com
	>
References: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE033ADA16@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
Message-ID: <21645.216.144.215.245.1198700319.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

Wojtak, Greg wrote:
> I am trying to read a multi-line file into a variable, and the lines are
> getting concatenated together in one big line.  So a file that contains
>
> line 1
> line 2
> line 3
> line d
> line 6
>
> would look like line 1 line 2 line 3 line d line 6 when I do:
>
> VAR=`cat data`
> echo $VAR
>
> Any ideas how to keep the newline inside of variables?

Sure, just use quotes, like this:

VAR="`cat data`"
echo "$VAR"

c




From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Wed Dec 26 15:44:42 2007
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 15:44:42 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Scripting - Newlines getting clobbered?
In-Reply-To: <21645.216.144.215.245.1198700319.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
References: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE033ADA16@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<21645.216.144.215.245.1198700319.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
Message-ID: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE033ADA18@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>

>> Any ideas how to keep the newline inside of variables?
>
>Sure, just use quotes, like this:
>
>VAR="`cat data`"
>echo "$VAR"
>
>c

Marvelous!  Worked like a charm.  Now I can ssh over to a server,
grab the data into a local variable and perform operations on it
instead of making several ssh connections to the remote and 
issuing several different commands.  Or even worse, using temp
files (yech!).

Greg


From cvweiss at gmail.com  Thu Dec 27 00:13:38 2007
From: cvweiss at gmail.com (Clinton V. Weiss)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 00:13:38 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Scripting - Newlines getting clobbered?
In-Reply-To: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE033ADA18@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
References: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE033ADA16@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<21645.216.144.215.245.1198700319.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
	<8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE033ADA18@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
Message-ID: <f0e9fe590712262113g565ea16dq367a3327a7316784@mail.gmail.com>

You might want to try using $() rather than backticks ``, it allows
for easier nesting of commands

Example:
VAR="$(cat data)"
echo $VAR

Also, depending on what you're doing:

while read line ; do
    echo $line
    # ... do stuff with the line of data ...
done < data

Here is a good resource for the budding bash scripter:
http://wooledge.org:8000/BashFAQ

It's a large page and a bit slow to load (Greg refuses to acknowledge
the slow part) but is an excellent resource.  I recommend wget'ing it
for quick local access.

-- 
Clinton V. Weiss
cvweiss at gmail.com


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Thu Dec 27 00:25:27 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 00:25:27 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] U.S. Army Introducing Macs Into Server Arsenal
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712262125x27b163d0hb84ce4d7310fcd32@mail.gmail.com>

I think a heterogeneous environment is better for security but I think
they're overlooking a few platform options:

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/12/26/u_s_army_introducing_macs_into_server_arsenal/

United States - In an attempt to make the front-line security harder
for hackers to hack, the U.S. Department of Army has developed a
strategy which involves using Apple Macs in addition to Windows based
computers. The idea stems from the fact that fewer attacks have been
developed against Mac machines. The Army believes that by using a mix
of computers, a single hack attack will not be able to completely take
down a portion of their network at any given time.


From eaglecoach at wwnet.com  Thu Dec 27 00:21:20 2007
From: eaglecoach at wwnet.com (Robert Meier)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 00:21:20 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Scripting - Newlines getting clobbered?
In-Reply-To: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE033ADA18@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	(GregWojtak@quickenloans.com)
References: <8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE033ADA16@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
	<21645.216.144.215.245.1198700319.squirrel@www.carltm.com>
	<8681A1B99F0B164D97CDA02C4E4938AE033ADA18@QL1EXVS4.mi.corp.rockfin.com>
Message-ID: <20071227052120.DEA0C127C6A@starfox.local>

Greg,

>>> Any ideas how to keep the newline inside of variables?
>> Sure, just use quotes, like this:
>>
>> VAR="`cat data`"
>> echo "$VAR"
> Marvelous!  Worked like a charm.

Consider habitually quoting any shell substitution you read non-numerically.
Once the habit is ingrained, the unnecessary quotes are painless,
and the absence of pesky shell errors due to mishandling whitespace
(e.g. spaces in filenames),
is well worth the time or so in a hundred that you overquote.

Hopefully helpful,
-- 
Robert Meier

  "I usually take a two hour nap from one to four."
     -- Yogi Berra


From GregWojtak at quickenloans.com  Thu Dec 27 09:15:45 2007
From: GregWojtak at quickenloans.com (Wojtak, Greg)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 09:15:45 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Scripting - Newlines getting clobbered?
In-Reply-To: <20071227052120.DEA0C127C6A@starfox.local>
Message-ID: <C3991DC1.536C4%GregWojtak@quickenloans.com>

On 12/27/07 12:21 AM, "Robert Meier" <eaglecoach at wwnet.com> wrote:

> Greg,
> 
>>>> Any ideas how to keep the newline inside of variables?
>>> Sure, just use quotes, like this:
>>> 
>>> VAR="`cat data`"
>>> echo "$VAR"
>> Marvelous!  Worked like a charm.
> 
> Consider habitually quoting any shell substitution you read non-numerically.
> Once the habit is ingrained, the unnecessary quotes are painless,
> and the absence of pesky shell errors due to mishandling whitespace
> (e.g. spaces in filenames),
> is well worth the time or so in a hundred that you overquote.
> 
> Hopefully helpful,


You all are starting to make me feel like a noob.  I may not be in the
practice of using quotes all the time, but how many of you habitually use
the ${VAR} convention!??!  That's what I thought!  :P

Vindictively,

Greg  :-)



From tesral at comcast.net  Thu Dec 27 09:39:51 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 09:39:51 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] January 12
Message-ID: <4773B937.5050702@comcast.net>

Do we have a demo?

Also, I have acquired a CD/DVD burner for Darth Beemer and would like to
create a distro toaster.  Would the group recommend the 80 gig or the
120 gig hard drive to store ISO files?  I don't plan on holding source,
just the binary ISOs to burn disks at install fests.

I'll also need to start downloading ISO files.  Suse and Unbuntu are
givens.  Any other suggestions (and the URLs)

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From cvweiss at gmail.com  Thu Dec 27 12:09:04 2007
From: cvweiss at gmail.com (Clinton V. Weiss)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 12:09:04 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] January 12
In-Reply-To: <4773B937.5050702@comcast.net>
References: <4773B937.5050702@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <f0e9fe590712270909h75bd2f3s2b638fe6bdd1c884@mail.gmail.com>

On Dec 27, 2007 9:39 AM, Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:
> I'll also need to start downloading ISO files.  Suse and Unbuntu are
> givens.  Any other suggestions (and the URLs)

Gentoo for those who *really* want to get their hands dirty.  I'm
trying it now and it has been quite a learning experience.

-- 
Clinton V. Weiss
cvweiss at gmail.com


From radkins at impelind.com  Thu Dec 27 12:37:49 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 12:37:49 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel Woes/Issues
Message-ID: <20071227171626.944C31412E@impelind.com>

	I did some testing in building the latest kernel for OpenSuSe 10.3
and that went through without a hitch. The server boots up perfectly fine
and everything runs great.

	Unfortunately, when I did the same for an older edition of SuSe,
version 9.2, I am running into issues. The reason I need to build this
kernel is due to the fact that the SCSI card I picked up requires a driver
that had known issues for that particular revision of the Linux Kernel and
thus SuSe didn't build the module for it. From my reading, the issue has
been resolved and it is included with later versions of SuSe, such as
OpenSuSe 10.3.

	So, I built the kernel, the modules, did the install, rebooted the
server and chose the new kernel... Got an error message.

	The error referred to something about "subfs" and caused a failure
during the init process, which appears to be related to the ext3fs.

	At first, I thought that maybe I made an error in configuring the
kernel and thus did a straight "stock" kernel rebuild, only making one
single change, which was adding in the missinge scsi driver.

	Building this kernel and installing it, left me with the same error
message.

	It appears that the kernel is having trouble mounting up and reading
the ext3 file system that the server is running as it would occasionally
"drop" and then "reacquire" the ability to see the filesystem, for example
claiming that it didn't know what "ls" was and then moments later running an
"ls" command just perfectly. I believe this is also why I ended up with
Kernel panic at one point.

	Googling, I have found a mention of subfs having something to do
with floppy and CD-ROMs, which is puzzling as it should have no impact on
the ext3fs mounted drives.

	I'm going to comment out the CD-ROM and Floppy drive in /etc/fstab
and see if that corrects the issue, as I really have no need for either in
the server and go from there.

	If anyone is familiar with this issue and knows a quick way around
it, I would greatly appreciate any suggestions.

	Thanks,
	Rob



From carl at carltm.com  Thu Dec 27 15:00:29 2007
From: carl at carltm.com (Carl T. Miller)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 15:00:29 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Scripting - Newlines getting clobbered?
In-Reply-To: <C3991DC1.536C4%GregWojtak@quickenloans.com>
References: <C3991DC1.536C4%GregWojtak@quickenloans.com>
Message-ID: <57697.12.15.0.40.1198785629.squirrel@www.carltm.com>

Wojtak, Greg wrote:
> You all are starting to make me feel like a noob.  I may not be in the
> practice of using quotes all the time, but how many of you habitually use
> the ${VAR} convention!??!  That's what I thought!  :P

I use ${VAR} all the time.  It's the one with parentheses
that I don't use, since it is part of bash and not sh.  I
want all my scripts to work in sh.

> Vindictively,

Go get 'em Greg!

c




From micorral at comcast.net  Thu Dec 27 15:21:21 2007
From: micorral at comcast.net (Michael Corral)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 15:21:21 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Scripting - Newlines getting clobbered?
In-Reply-To: <C3991DC1.536C4%GregWojtak@quickenloans.com>
References: <C3991DC1.536C4%GregWojtak@quickenloans.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.1.00.0712271457380.2155@banana.sluggo.net>

2007-12-27, Monsieur Wojtak, Greg a ecrit:
> You all are starting to make me feel like a noob.  I may not be in the
> practice of using quotes all the time, but how many of you habitually use
> the ${VAR} convention!??!

I do. Been doing that for years.
Also, besides quoting variables and using $() instead of backticks,
I always use read -r instead of just read, when reading files.

Michael


From akulkis3 at hotpop.com  Thu Dec 27 01:07:24 2007
From: akulkis3 at hotpop.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 01:07:24 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] U.S. Army Introducing Macs Into Server Arsenal
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90712262125x27b163d0hb84ce4d7310fcd32@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b02c40e90712262125x27b163d0hb84ce4d7310fcd32@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4773411C.1040609@hotpop.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> I think a heterogeneous environment is better for security but I think
> they're overlooking a few platform options:
> 
> http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/12/26/u_s_army_introducing_macs_into_server_arsenal/
> 
> United States - In an attempt to make the front-line security harder
> for hackers to hack, the U.S. Department of Army has developed a
> strategy which involves using Apple Macs in addition to Windows based
> computers. The idea stems from the fact that fewer attacks have been
> developed against Mac machines. The Army believes that by using a mix
> of computers, a single hack attack will not be able to completely take
> down a portion of their network at any given time.

It's about time.

I'll bet the guys in the headquarters of the MP battalion
I was attached to will be absolutely hating it--they were
complete MS fanatics.  Ah well... it will expand their
horizons ;-)




From mathew.enders at prodigy.net  Thu Dec 27 18:27:58 2007
From: mathew.enders at prodigy.net (Mathew Enders)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 15:27:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug] January 12
In-Reply-To: <4773B937.5050702@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <711451.90958.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:    Do we have a demo?

Also, I have acquired a CD/DVD burner for Darth Beemer and would like to
create a distro toaster. Would the group recommend the 80 gig or the
120 gig hard drive to store ISO files? I don't plan on holding source,
just the binary ISOs to burn disks at install fests.

I'll also need to start downloading ISO files. Suse and Unbuntu are
givens. Any other suggestions (and the URLs)

  Debian - http://www.debian.org/distrib/
   
  Kubuntu - http://www.kubuntu.org/download.php
   
  CentOS - http://www.centos.org/modules/tinycontent/index.php?id=15
   
  Fedora - http://fedoraproject.org/get-fedora



From jcbender at bendorius.com  Thu Dec 27 18:43:04 2007
From: jcbender at bendorius.com (Joseph C. Bender)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 18:43:04 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Scripting - Newlines getting clobbered?
In-Reply-To: <C3991DC1.536C4%GregWojtak@quickenloans.com>
References: <C3991DC1.536C4%GregWojtak@quickenloans.com>
Message-ID: <47743888.4030402@bendorius.com>

Wojtak, Greg wrote:
> 
> You all are starting to make me feel like a noob.  I may not be in the
> practice of using quotes all the time, but how many of you habitually use
> the ${VAR} convention!??!  
 >
	All the time.  There's a lot of shell scripting that would be very 
nasty if I didn't use that.


>That's what I thought!  :P
> 
	What, that many of us do?

Rhetorically,

JCB


-- 
Joseph Bender
Bendorius Consulting
P: 248-434-5580
F: 248-434-5581
jcbender at bendorius com


From rstaff at sprynet.com  Thu Dec 27 19:18:52 2007
From: rstaff at sprynet.com (Richard Staff)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 19:18:52 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Stock tracking program
In-Reply-To: <b02c40e90712241102k76900b4byc43ce8534048202@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cd5131a50712240830h3476ae11h9d43a8f894962bc7@mail.gmail.com>
	<b02c40e90712241102k76900b4byc43ce8534048202@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <477440EC.4050803@sprynet.com>

Jeff Hanson wrote:
> On Dec 24, 2007 11:30 AM, - <otakurider at gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>> Anyone have any programs they have seen to track stock investments.  I have
>> tried GnuCash but it seems a bit more work that I have been looking for and
>> importing my files from my broker accounts seem to have some problems.
>> Currently I use Microsoft Money but want to go to open source.
>>     
>
> I haven't used any but look here for leads:
>
> http://www.linuxlinks.com/Software/Financial/Stockmarket/
> http://www.linux.org/apps/all/Office/Financial-1.html?sort=author
> http://freshmeat.net/articles/view/269/
>
> Once you've compared them all you can present your findings at the
> next meeting. :)
>
>   
Please add to the above over kill listings "KMyMoney".
It is KDE based and modeled on Microsoft Money and Quicken.
I have version 0.8.2 and have been using it for a couple years.
KMyMoney's current version level is 0.8.8.
There is an "Investment" icon item that can be selected.
I do not know how functional the "Investment" choice is.
I have only used KMyMoney as a simple replacement for Quicken.
Income and expense tracking, budgeting, savings, that sort of thing.
Rick


From driveray at ameritech.net  Thu Dec 27 20:55:24 2007
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 20:55:24 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel Woes/Issues
In-Reply-To: <20071227171626.944C31412E@impelind.com>
References: <20071227171626.944C31412E@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <4774578C.6030403@ameritech.net>

Robert Adkins wrote:

> 	So, I built the kernel, the modules, did the install, rebooted the
> server and chose the new kernel... Got an error message. The error referred to
> something about "subfs" and caused a failure
> during the init process, which appears to be related to the ext3fs.

The precise wording of this message would be helpful.

> 	It appears that the kernel is having trouble mounting up and reading
> the ext3 file system that the server is running as it would occasionally
> "drop" and then "reacquire" the ability to see the filesystem, for example
> claiming that it didn't know what "ls" was and then moments later running an
> "ls" command just perfectly. I believe this is also why I ended up with
> Kernel panic at one point.
> 
> 	Googling, I have found a mention of subfs having something to do
> with floppy and CD-ROMs, which is puzzling as it should have no impact on
> the ext3fs mounted drives.

Subfs was SuSE's way of mounting removable media of all types during the
9.? thru 10.0 era. (This is something they keep dicking around with
GRRR!) Subfs was a pretty good way of dealing with removable media, it
allowed users to eject media at will with no hard, as long as a write
wasn't in progress at the time.

Your system's root partition certainly shouldn't be mounted subfs!
Posting a copy of your /etc/fstab might help.


> 	If anyone is familiar with this issue and knows a quick way around
> it, I would greatly appreciate any suggestions.

A little more information might help.

> 	Thanks,
> 	Rob
> 


From tesral at comcast.net  Thu Dec 27 21:04:44 2007
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 21:04:44 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] January 12
In-Reply-To: <711451.90958.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <711451.90958.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <477459BC.7020209@comcast.net>

Mathew Enders wrote:
> Garry Stahl <tesral at comcast.net> wrote:    Do we have a demo?
>
> Also, I have acquired a CD/DVD burner for Darth Beemer and would like to
> create a distro toaster. Would the group recommend the 80 gig or the
> 120 gig hard drive to store ISO files? I don't plan on holding source,
> just the binary ISOs to burn disks at install fests.
>
> I'll also need to start downloading ISO files. Suse and Unbuntu are
> givens. Any other suggestions (and the URLs)
>
>   Debian - http://www.debian.org/distrib/
>    
>   Kubuntu - http://www.kubuntu.org/download.php
>    
>   CentOS - http://www.centos.org/modules/tinycontent/index.php?id=15
>    
>   Fedora - http://fedoraproject.org/get-fedora
>   

Thank you Matt. 

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn Http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com



From eaglecoach at wwnet.com  Thu Dec 27 18:50:47 2007
From: eaglecoach at wwnet.com (Robert Meier)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 18:50:47 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug] Scripting - Newlines getting clobbered?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.1.00.0712271457380.2155@banana.sluggo.net> (message
	from Michael Corral on Thu, 27 Dec 2007 15:21:21 -0500 (EST))
References: <C3991DC1.536C4%GregWojtak@quickenloans.com>
	<alpine.LFD.1.00.0712271457380.2155@banana.sluggo.net>
Message-ID: <20071227235047.097C7127C69@starfox.local>

Michael,

> Also, besides quoting variables and using $() instead of backticks,
> I always use read -r instead of just read, when reading files.

ditto

I won't say how many times I was burned before then :/ .

Likewise,

	find ... -print | while read f; do ...; done

Reporting,
-- 
Robert Meier

  "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from
   oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that
   will reach to himself."
	--Thomas Paine


From radkins at impelind.com  Fri Dec 28 08:36:43 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 08:36:43 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel Woes/Issues
In-Reply-To: <4774578C.6030403@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <20071228131521.D0B0D1412E@impelind.com>




> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Raymond McLaughlin
> Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 8:55 PM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Kernel Woes/Issues
> 
> Robert Adkins wrote:
> 
> > 	So, I built the kernel, the modules, did the install, 
> rebooted the 
> > server and chose the new kernel... Got an error message. The error 
> > referred to something about "subfs" and caused a failure during the 
> > init process, which appears to be related to the ext3fs.
> 
> The precise wording of this message would be helpful.
>

	I have found out more about the subfs issue:

	1. Commenting out the lines for the removable media has eliminated
this error.

	2. There is a subfs module out there that I can rebuild to work with
the new kernel, since the only subfs systems were the CD-ROM and the Floppy
drive, this isn't a very serious need to do at this time.
 
	I am still having some issues with the new kernel. Which I believe
is related to NFS.

	Currently, I am running two servers:

	1. Email, Proxy, DHCP, NFS Share of /home

	2. Samba Domain Controller, File backup, Mounts server1's /home as
the local /home (in order to backup the users home directories to backup the
IMAP shares.)

	The primary issue that the server now has is that when I go to log
into the server, using a user account, the login process completely hangs.
Logging in as the root user, I can go into the /home and see the user
directories. However, I am unable to cd into or ls the contents of those
directories. Checking the logs, there are no error messages, just a plain
hardlock of that particular console session. (Which I am able to kill.)

	-Rob



From radkins at impelind.com  Fri Dec 28 11:05:43 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 11:05:43 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel Woes/Issues
In-Reply-To: <20071228131521.D0B0D1412E@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <20071228154421.89A491412E@impelind.com>

> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org
> > [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Raymond McLaughlin
> > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 8:55 PM
> > To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> > Subject: Re: [mdlug] Kernel Woes/Issues
> > 
> > Robert Adkins wrote:
> > 
> > > 	So, I built the kernel, the modules, did the install,
> > rebooted the
> > > server and chose the new kernel... Got an error message. 
> The error 
> > > referred to something about "subfs" and caused a failure 
> during the 
> > > init process, which appears to be related to the ext3fs.
> > 
> > The precise wording of this message would be helpful.
> >
> 
> 	I have found out more about the subfs issue:
> 
> 	1. Commenting out the lines for the removable media has 
> eliminated this error.
> 
> 	2. There is a subfs module out there that I can rebuild 
> to work with the new kernel, since the only subfs systems 
> were the CD-ROM and the Floppy drive, this isn't a very 
> serious need to do at this time.
>  
> 	I am still having some issues with the new kernel. 
> Which I believe is related to NFS.
> 
> 	Currently, I am running two servers:
> 
> 	1. Email, Proxy, DHCP, NFS Share of /home
> 
> 	2. Samba Domain Controller, File backup, Mounts 
> server1's /home as the local /home (in order to backup the 
> users home directories to backup the IMAP shares.)
> 
> 	The primary issue that the server now has is that when 
> I go to log into the server, using a user account, the login 
> process completely hangs.
> Logging in as the root user, I can go into the /home and see 
> the user directories. However, I am unable to cd into or ls 
> the contents of those directories. Checking the logs, there 
> are no error messages, just a plain hardlock of that 
> particular console session. (Which I am able to kill.)
> 
> 	-Rob
> 

	A little additional information:

	1. I have rebuilt the kernel for an OpenSuSe 10.3 test server using
the default options from the stock kernel and this server is able to mount
the NFS share from "Server1" read/write, without issue.

	-Rob



From muteid10t at gmail.com  Fri Dec 28 12:35:41 2007
From: muteid10t at gmail.com (Ron Blanchett)
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 12:35:41 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel Woes/Issues
In-Reply-To: <20071228154421.89A491412E@impelind.com>
References: <20071228131521.D0B0D1412E@impelind.com>
	<20071228154421.89A491412E@impelind.com>
Message-ID: <52995d720712280935g1d786366u33bea110b06d23fb@mail.gmail.com>

What versions of NFS are you running on the different systems.
I could be wrong but I don't think that older versions of the NFS
client can connect to the newer server versions.

Also make sure that you have enabled NFS support in the kernel on the
system that you are having the NFS connection problems on.

-Ron

p.s. send any error output from either the console or the system logs
from said trioubled system that relate to the NFS mount issue.

On 12/28/07, Robert Adkins <radkins at impelind.com> wrote:
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org
> > > [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Raymond McLaughlin
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 8:55 PM
> > > To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> > > Subject: Re: [mdlug] Kernel Woes/Issues
> > >
> > > Robert Adkins wrote:
> > >
> > > >   So, I built the kernel, the modules, did the install,
> > > rebooted the
> > > > server and chose the new kernel... Got an error message.
> > The error
> > > > referred to something about "subfs" and caused a failure
> > during the
> > > > init process, which appears to be related to the ext3fs.
> > >
> > > The precise wording of this message would be helpful.
> > >
> >
> >       I have found out more about the subfs issue:
> >
> >       1. Commenting out the lines for the removable media has
> > eliminated this error.
> >
> >       2. There is a subfs module out there that I can rebuild
> > to work with the new kernel, since the only subfs systems
> > were the CD-ROM and the Floppy drive, this isn't a very
> > serious need to do at this time.
> >
> >       I am still having some issues with the new kernel.
> > Which I believe is related to NFS.
> >
> >       Currently, I am running two servers:
> >
> >       1. Email, Proxy, DHCP, NFS Share of /home
> >
> >       2. Samba Domain Controller, File backup, Mounts
> > server1's /home as the local /home (in order to backup the
> > users home directories to backup the IMAP shares.)
> >
> >       The primary issue that the server now has is that when
> > I go to log into the server, using a user account, the login
> > process completely hangs.
> > Logging in as the root user, I can go into the /home and see
> > the user directories. However, I am unable to cd into or ls
> > the contents of those directories. Checking the logs, there
> > are no error messages, just a plain hardlock of that
> > particular console session. (Which I am able to kill.)
> >
> >       -Rob
> >
>
>         A little additional information:
>
>         1. I have rebuilt the kernel for an OpenSuSe 10.3 test server using
> the default options from the stock kernel and this server is able to mount
> the NFS share from "Server1" read/write, without issue.
>
>         -Rob
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug mailing list
> mdlug at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug
>


From radkins at impelind.com  Fri Dec 28 13:24:09 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 13:24:09 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Kernel Woes/Issues
In-Reply-To: <52995d720712280935g1d786366u33bea110b06d23fb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20071228180248.519141412E@impelind.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org 
> [mailto:mdlug-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Ron Blanchett
> Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 12:36 PM
> To: MDLUG's Main discussion list
> Subject: Re: [mdlug] Kernel Woes/Issues
> 
> What versions of NFS are you running on the different systems.
> I could be wrong but I don't think that older versions of the 
> NFS client can connect to the newer server versions.
> 
> Also make sure that you have enabled NFS support in the 
> kernel on the system that you are having the NFS connection 
> problems on.
> 

	NFS Support is in both kernels. I built the problem kernel, using
the config.gz extracted from the running kernel on the system. The only
change I made to the configuration was adding in the scsi driver module that
SuSe hadn't included in their last Stock Kernel, which had a problem with
the particular kernel level back when 9.2 was supported, this has
subsequently has been fixed and is included in at least the latest OpenSuSe.

> 
> p.s. send any error output from either the console or the 
> system logs from said trioubled system that relate to the NFS 
> mount issue.
> 

	That's the rub.

	I have seen no error messages with mounting the NFS Shares. In fact,
the shares show up as being mounted just fine and dandy. What happens is
that when attempting to login with a user account with the home that is
located on the NFS share, it just hardlocks that terminal session.

	The same thing happens when attempting to list the contents of one
of those home directories when logged in as root. CTL-C won't even kill the
command, I have to login via another terminal session and then kill the ls
command process to unfreeze the locked session.

	-Rob



From starline at wideopenwest.com  Fri Dec 28 13:02:19 2007
From: starline at wideopenwest.com (Bob Dion)
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 13:02:19 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Tech charities to consider this giving season
Message-ID: <47753A2B.80009@wideopenwest.com>

Tech charities to consider this giving season

http://www.linux.com/feature/123069


From jhansonxi at gmail.com  Mon Dec 31 14:08:07 2007
From: jhansonxi at gmail.com (Jeff Hanson)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 14:08:07 -0500
Subject: [mdlug] Another item from M$ for your next Myth TV sales pitch
Message-ID: <b02c40e90712311108me17deb2n3ce518bf81167050@mail.gmail.com>

LOL:
http://www.technewsworld.com/story/60986.html


