From bfotiu at gmail.com  Mon Nov 10 14:43:03 2008
From: bfotiu at gmail.com (Brandon Fotiu)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 14:43:03 -0500
Subject: [mdlug-newbie] Hello LUGgers!
Message-ID: <1765d7c60811101143g5f71d6bbw1b35903af7b083d7@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

My name is Brandon and I got fed up with Windows a few months ago and
installed Linux Mint 5 Elyssa.  So far it's been a good experience overall
and most of my hardware is supported.  I'm looking for more information on
how to get everything I can out of Linux and I've been slowly learning the
way around my system and the terminal.  My next project for is to try and
get MythTV up and running on a spare box but from what I've read it's really
an advanced user type of program.  Anyway, I'm joining this list in the hope
that it keeps me from switching back so please be patient if I ask a really
simple questions.  Thanks for reading this and I look forward to
participating in the Michigan LUG community.

Brandon
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From tesral at comcast.net  Mon Nov 10 15:03:09 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:03:09 -0500
Subject: [mdlug-newbie] Hello LUGgers!
In-Reply-To: <1765d7c60811101143g5f71d6bbw1b35903af7b083d7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1765d7c60811101143g5f71d6bbw1b35903af7b083d7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4918937D.9070505@comcast.net>

Brandon Fotiu wrote:
> Hello,
>
> My name is Brandon and I got fed up with Windows a few months ago and 
> installed Linux Mint 5 Elyssa.  So far it's been a good experience 
> overall and most of my hardware is supported.  I'm looking for more 
> information on how to get everything I can out of Linux and I've been 
> slowly learning the way around my system and the terminal.  My next 
> project for is to try and get MythTV up and running on a spare box but 
> from what I've read it's really an advanced user type of program.  
> Anyway, I'm joining this list in the hope that it keeps me from 
> switching back so please be patient if I ask a really simple 
> questions.  Thanks for reading this and I look forward to 
> participating in the Michigan LUG community.
>
> Brandon

Welcome to Linux.

Well I cannot recommend this as I have yet to try it myself, but if your 
willing to drop a few bucks. the November Linux Format magazine is on 
MythTV and has a Mythbuntu distro as the DVD of the month.  Now, I have 
not yet read the articles or done squat with this distro, in fact it's 
still in the magazine, but it is there.


-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From tony at bemushosting.com  Mon Nov 10 15:10:37 2008
From: tony at bemushosting.com (Tony Bemus)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:10:37 -0500
Subject: [mdlug-newbie] Hello LUGgers!
In-Reply-To: <1765d7c60811101143g5f71d6bbw1b35903af7b083d7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1765d7c60811101143g5f71d6bbw1b35903af7b083d7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1226347837.5979.5.camel@bemus-tony>

Welcome Brandon!!!

     If you want a media center / Home Theater PC then you should look
at Linux MCE.  It uses MythTV to watch and record TV and it has a lot of
other features.  The MythTV setup is easy as long as you have a
supported capture card.
Check out these links for more info:
Linux MCE: http://linuxmce.com/ 
MythTV Supported hardware:
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Video_capture_card

-  
Tony Bemus
http://www.bemushosting.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Brandon Fotiu <bfotiu at gmail.com>
Reply-to: "A place where there are no dumb \(linux related\) questions."
<mdlug-newbie at mdlug.org>
To: mdlug-newbie at mdlug.org
Subject: [mdlug-newbie] Hello LUGgers!
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 14:43:03 -0500

Hello,

My name is Brandon and I got fed up with Windows a few months ago and
installed Linux Mint 5 Elyssa.  So far it's been a good experience
overall and most of my hardware is supported.  I'm looking for more
information on how to get everything I can out of Linux and I've been
slowly learning the way around my system and the terminal.  My next
project for is to try and get MythTV up and running on a spare box but
from what I've read it's really an advanced user type of program.
Anyway, I'm joining this list in the hope that it keeps me from
switching back so please be patient if I ask a really simple questions.
Thanks for reading this and I look forward to participating in the
Michigan LUG community.

Brandon


_______________________________________________
mdlug-newbie mailing list
mdlug-newbie at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug-newbie



From PHornung at gonzprodsys.com  Mon Nov 10 15:25:14 2008
From: PHornung at gonzprodsys.com (Patrick Hornung)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:25:14 -0500
Subject: [mdlug-newbie] Hello LUGgers!
In-Reply-To: <4918937D.9070505@comcast.net>
References: <1765d7c60811101143g5f71d6bbw1b35903af7b083d7@mail.gmail.com>
	<4918937D.9070505@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <56E219797FC0CB47AE0613B1849BD65232B2D74892@postal2.gonzalez-group.com>

I can personally recommend Mythbuntu, as I've used it for over a year now for a home MythTV setup.  If you're already using Mint, using Mythbuntu will have a very familiar interface.  They Mythbuntu control center is quite nice when getting started, as well.

In my experience, MythTV (overall) has been very good.  However, you'll need to have patience with it.  The prevailing opinion of those running MythTV is that if you don't like to fiddle with your DVR system, a TiVo is the better route.  If you like to fiddle with it, MythTV is the way to go.  It's very flexible and allows you a great deal of control over your DVR system, especially with regards to having multiple frontends.

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-newbie-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-newbie-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Garry Stahl
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 3:03 PM
To: A place where there are no dumb (linux related) questions.
Subject: Re: [mdlug-newbie] Hello LUGgers!

Brandon Fotiu wrote:
> Hello,
>
> My name is Brandon and I got fed up with Windows a few months ago and
> installed Linux Mint 5 Elyssa.  So far it's been a good experience
> overall and most of my hardware is supported.  I'm looking for more
> information on how to get everything I can out of Linux and I've been
> slowly learning the way around my system and the terminal.  My next
> project for is to try and get MythTV up and running on a spare box but
> from what I've read it's really an advanced user type of program.
> Anyway, I'm joining this list in the hope that it keeps me from
> switching back so please be patient if I ask a really simple
> questions.  Thanks for reading this and I look forward to
> participating in the Michigan LUG community.
>
> Brandon

Welcome to Linux.

Well I cannot recommend this as I have yet to try it myself, but if your
willing to drop a few bucks. the November Linux Format magazine is on
MythTV and has a Mythbuntu distro as the DVD of the month.  Now, I have
not yet read the articles or done squat with this distro, in fact it's
still in the magazine, but it is there.


--
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org

_______________________________________________
mdlug-newbie mailing list
mdlug-newbie at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug-newbie


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Mon Nov 10 15:18:56 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:18:56 -0500
Subject: [mdlug-newbie] Hello LUGgers!
In-Reply-To: <1765d7c60811101143g5f71d6bbw1b35903af7b083d7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1765d7c60811101143g5f71d6bbw1b35903af7b083d7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B20E@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Brandon Fotiu

> Anyway, I'm joining this list in the hope that it keeps me from
> switching back so please be patient if I ask a really simple
questions.

That is a huge part of what we're here for, to help each other out.
Don't hesitate to ask questions, quite often we all learn something from
the answers. Welcome!

Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                            (313) 227-2317

 "It is morally as bad not to care whether a thing is true or not, so
   long as it makes you feel good, as it is not to care how you got
       your money as long as you have got it." - Edwin Way Teale
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From sngrant at mac.com  Mon Nov 10 15:01:02 2008
From: sngrant at mac.com (Stuart)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:01:02 -0500
Subject: [mdlug-newbie] Hello LUGgers!
In-Reply-To: <1765d7c60811101143g5f71d6bbw1b35903af7b083d7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1765d7c60811101143g5f71d6bbw1b35903af7b083d7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <202B8D30-585F-494F-BA3A-A0903FF53DAF@mac.com>

Hi Brandon,

I too am new to Linux and LUG.  I have used Macs for the past 10  
years, I occasionally used a box running open Suse, and only learned  
the true level of retardation of windows two years ago when I started  
college.  There was a short time I used a NEXT Station color, which  
was the aunix based predecesor to Mac OS X, but sold that machine to  
pay some bills.  Out for delivery today is my Asus EEE PC 100, with  
its own custom xandros.  I don't want to put XP on it if I can't find  
a decent CAD program available for a Linux distro.  Thanks for  
listening to me ramble, I'm sure I will have "TONS" of questions in  
time.

Stuart Grant
Mt. Clemens

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 10, 2008, at 2:43 PM, Brandon Fotiu <bfotiu at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> My name is Brandon and I got fed up with Windows a few months ago  
> and installed Linux Mint 5 Elyssa.  So far it's been a good  
> experience overall and most of my hardware is supported.  I'm  
> looking for more information on how to get everything I can out of  
> Linux and I've been slowly learning the way around my system and the  
> terminal.  My next project for is to try and get MythTV up and  
> running on a spare box but from what I've read it's really an  
> advanced user type of program.  Anyway, I'm joining this list in the  
> hope that it keeps me from switching back so please be patient if I  
> ask a really simple questions.  Thanks for reading this and I look  
> forward to participating in the Michigan LUG community.
>
> Brandon
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug-newbie mailing list
> mdlug-newbie at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug-newbie


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 11 07:07:11 2008
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 07:07:11 -0500
Subject: [mdlug-newbie] Hello LUGgers!
In-Reply-To: <1765d7c60811101143g5f71d6bbw1b35903af7b083d7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1765d7c60811101143g5f71d6bbw1b35903af7b083d7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4919756F.5000909@gmail.com>

Brandon Fotiu wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> My name is Brandon and I got fed up with Windows a few months ago and 
> installed Linux Mint 5 Elyssa.  So far it's been a good experience 
> overall and most of my hardware is supported.  I'm looking for more 
> information on how to get everything I can out of Linux and I've been 
> slowly learning the way around my system and the terminal.  My next 
> project for is to try and get MythTV up and running on a spare box but 
> from what I've read it's really an advanced user type of program.  
> Anyway, I'm joining this list in the hope that it keeps me from 
> switching back so please be patient if I ask a really simple questions.  
> Thanks for reading this and I look forward to participating in the 
> Michigan LUG community.

The key is to get all of your ESSENTIAL activities (e-mail, etc.)
done on Linux.  Once you're doing that, the temptation to revert
back to Windows evaporates in short order.

Now that the Wine project has reached the 1.0 stage, even the
temptation to have Windows around for games is gone. 



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 11 07:11:44 2008
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 07:11:44 -0500
Subject: [mdlug-newbie] Hello LUGgers!
In-Reply-To: <202B8D30-585F-494F-BA3A-A0903FF53DAF@mac.com>
References: <1765d7c60811101143g5f71d6bbw1b35903af7b083d7@mail.gmail.com>
	<202B8D30-585F-494F-BA3A-A0903FF53DAF@mac.com>
Message-ID: <49197680.10704@gmail.com>

Stuart wrote:
> Hi Brandon,
> 
> I too am new to Linux and LUG.  I have used Macs for the past 10  
> years, I occasionally used a box running open Suse, and only learned  
> the true level of retardation of windows two years ago when I started  
> college.  There was a short time I used a NEXT Station color, which  
> was the aunix based predecesor to Mac OS X, but sold that machine to  
> pay some bills.  Out for delivery today is my Asus EEE PC 100, with  
> its own custom xandros.  I don't want to put XP on it if I can't find  
> a decent CAD program available for a Linux distro.  Thanks for  
> listening to me ramble, I'm sure I will have "TONS" of questions in  
> time.
> 
> Stuart Grant
> Mt. Clemens
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Nov 10, 2008, at 2:43 PM, Brandon Fotiu <bfotiu at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hello,
>>
>> My name is Brandon and I got fed up with Windows a few months ago  
>> and installed Linux Mint 5 Elyssa.  So far it's been a good  
>> experience overall and most of my hardware is supported.  I'm  
>> looking for more information on how to get everything I can out of  
>> Linux and I've been slowly learning the way around my system and the  
>> terminal.  My next project for is to try and get MythTV up and  
>> running on a spare box but from what I've read it's really an  
>> advanced user type of program.  Anyway, I'm joining this list in the  
>> hope that it keeps me from switching back so please be patient if I  
>> ask a really simple questions.  Thanks for reading this and I look  
>> forward to participating in the Michigan LUG community.

A lot of Unix-land CAD programs have been ported to Linux.
It's usually no more difficult (and oftentimes, much less
difficult) to port a Unix app to Linux than to port from one 
of the proprietary Unix versions to another (HP-UX, IRIX,
AIX, Solaris).


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 11 08:44:48 2008
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 08:44:48 -0500
Subject: [mdlug-newbie] Hello LUGgers!
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B20E@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <1765d7c60811101143g5f71d6bbw1b35903af7b083d7@mail.gmail.com>
	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B20E@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <49198C50.8090507@gmail.com>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>> From: Brandon Fotiu
> 
>> Anyway, I'm joining this list in the hope that it keeps me from
>> switching back so please be patient if I ask a really simple
> questions.
> 
> That is a huge part of what we're here for, to help each other out.
> Don't hesitate to ask questions, quite often we all learn something from
> the answers. Welcome!

Sometimes, I even learn something WRITING an answer.




From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Tue Nov 11 09:25:43 2008
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Robert Meier)
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 09:25:43 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug-newbie] Hello LUGgers!
In-Reply-To: <1765d7c60811101143g5f71d6bbw1b35903af7b083d7@mail.gmail.com>
	(bfotiu@gmail.com)
References: <1765d7c60811101143g5f71d6bbw1b35903af7b083d7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20081111142543.256C0127986@starfox.local>

Brandon,

Welcome.

> ... I ... installed Linux Mint 5 Elyssa.

I'm using SuSE-10.1 at home and CentOS-5 at work, so I'm more familiar
with them.

> I'm looking for more information ...

I can strongly recommend reading "The Art of Unix Programming" by
Eric Raymond (ISBN 0-13-142901-9, http://www.faqs.org/docs/artu/)

I recommend always loading the docs that come with any package (some distros
routinely install the docs only on request).

Read man pages.  (man(1) is an executable that provides online documentation
in a "technical spec" format.  You'll see references cited as
<executable>(<section-number>) like ls(1), passwd(5), mount(8) for 'list
directory contents', 'password file', and 'mount a file system'.
You can nominally read a man page (e.g. description of section 5) from
the terminal with ('bash>' indicates your prompt.  Like a stage direction,
you don't actually type it, only what follows.)

bash> man 5 intro 

You can also search the man pages by finding words in the 'NAME' portion

bash> man -k hostname

Documentation, especially tutorials, faqs, ... is usually available in
hypertext (linked) formats like info, and html.



> ... I've been slowly learning the way around my system and the terminal.

Good.

Be aware that while to unix, "everything is a file".  Unix executables
nearly universally split into an "engine" (which operates via file,
i.e. config file, script, command-line-interface), and a "front-end"
(which presents the file via a graphical-user-interface).

There are many styles of "front-end"s adapted to user tastes, and
usage scenarios.  Most distros (e.g. Mint 5, SuSE, Mepis, RedHat, ...)
differ in their default choice of "front-end"s.

Consequently, when you ask questions, expect to get answers in terms
of cli and config file, but if desired, you can use the gui tools
provided by your distro (or added by you).

If a gui is not already available (and not worth installing for something
you don't plan to do often), you can always fall back on the command line.

People have strong opinions regarding choice of gui tools (and distros),
but I recommend you listen for the pros and cons of each, try several
(e.g. Mint 5, SuSE, RedHat, Ubuntu, Gentoo), and gravitate toward those
which suit you best.

> My next project for is to try and get MythTV up and running ...

I'm hoping to do the same soon.

> Anyway, ... please be patient if I ask a really simple questions.

That's what the mdlug-newbie list is for.

Welcome,
-- 
Bob

 "Destruction is *easy*. Even stupid people and weather formations can
    do it. If you think you're so cool, try *improving* something."
	      -- Ray Ingles 1997



From tesral at comcast.net  Tue Nov 11 12:32:19 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 12:32:19 -0500
Subject: [mdlug-newbie] Hello LUGgers!
In-Reply-To: <20081111142543.256C0127986@starfox.local>
References: <1765d7c60811101143g5f71d6bbw1b35903af7b083d7@mail.gmail.com>
	<20081111142543.256C0127986@starfox.local>
Message-ID: <4919C1A3.9090809@comcast.net>

Robert Meier wrote:
> Read man pages. 

Man pages are of limited use.  Some are genuinely helpful, others 
require a degree in computer engineering to understand.  The rest are 
worse than useless.  In general a real mixed bag.  For the most part I 
have found the advice "read the man page" to be unhelpful for the 
beginner.  Why?  Most man pages are not written with the beginner in 
mind, but the *nix expert.

Relative "read the man page" newbie reporting.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From PHornung at gonzprodsys.com  Tue Nov 11 13:09:41 2008
From: PHornung at gonzprodsys.com (Patrick Hornung)
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 13:09:41 -0500
Subject: [mdlug-newbie] Hello LUGgers!
In-Reply-To: <4919C1A3.9090809@comcast.net>
References: <1765d7c60811101143g5f71d6bbw1b35903af7b083d7@mail.gmail.com>
	<20081111142543.256C0127986@starfox.local>
	<4919C1A3.9090809@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <56E219797FC0CB47AE0613B1849BD65232B2D749AB@postal2.gonzalez-group.com>

Indeed.  'google for it' is almost always better than 'read the man page'.

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-newbie-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-newbie-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Garry Stahl
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 12:32 PM
To: A place where there are no dumb (linux related) questions.
Subject: Re: [mdlug-newbie] Hello LUGgers!

Robert Meier wrote:
> Read man pages.

Man pages are of limited use.  Some are genuinely helpful, others
require a degree in computer engineering to understand.  The rest are
worse than useless.  In general a real mixed bag.  For the most part I
have found the advice "read the man page" to be unhelpful for the
beginner.  Why?  Most man pages are not written with the beginner in
mind, but the *nix expert.

Relative "read the man page" newbie reporting.

--
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org

_______________________________________________
mdlug-newbie mailing list
mdlug-newbie at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug-newbie


From bfotiu at gmail.com  Tue Nov 11 16:44:42 2008
From: bfotiu at gmail.com (Brandon Fotiu)
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 16:44:42 -0500
Subject: [mdlug-newbie] Linux Mint XFCE & MSI Wind
Message-ID: <1765d7c60811111344w351a39c3pd55aa505eb667b41@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everyone,

So I went over to Micro Center yesterday and bought myself an MSI Wind
Laptop (the MSi U100).  For those that aren't familiar it's one of the new
'netbook' style laptops.  Intel Atom 1.6Ghz CPU, 2Gb RAM (I upgraded it from
1), 120GB harddrive, Bluetooth, wireless b/g, etc etc.

The only thing about it is, since it's a netbook, it doesn't have an optical
drive.  The harddrive comes from the factory with two partitions on it, one
for boot and one for storage.  When I booted it for the first time it
installed Windows XP Home edition and everything ran smoothly.  I connected
to my wireless network, installed Firefox and just as I was trying out
hulu.com to check performance the battery ran flat and it lost power.  With
other laptops I've had this happen and, while I know it's not a good thing
to do, they have all started back up.

Instead, when it tried to boot into XP again (from AC power) it hung
endlessly.  I did a safe mode boot and it kept getting to mup.sys and then
doing nothing (for at least 15 minutes).  It reminded me a lot of when I
switched my main box over to Mint, there were no other options other than a
complete reinstall or an iffy scandisk.  I learned that MS doesn't bundle
their Recovery Console by default in XP Home during this process too.  So
after spending a few hours reading about BartPE and how to bundle the XP
Server 2003 ramdisk file into a vanilla XP Home distro I got fed up and
decided to get Mint running instead.

As of about an hour ago I've gotten the XFCE community edition of Linux Mint
5 Elyssa running on the Wind.  I'm having a couple problems though.  The
biggest is that ACPI doesn't work by default.  I can't boot with it enabled
so I've resorted to adding "ACPI=off" to the Mint startup command.  The
other is that I'm not totally sure how to get wireless working.  I've heard
there is a wrapper for the Windows driver but it only works on some
hardware?

Anyway, it's up and running and I'm doing an update right now (using the
wired ethernet connection) but if anyone can tell me about ACPI or wireless
I would really appreciate it.

Thanks,

Brandon
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From towalf at charter.net  Tue Nov 11 16:15:28 2008
From: towalf at charter.net (Kevin S. Spencer)
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 16:15:28 -0500
Subject: [mdlug-newbie] Hello LUGgers!
In-Reply-To: <4919C1A3.9090809@comcast.net>
References: <1765d7c60811101143g5f71d6bbw1b35903af7b083d7@mail.gmail.com>	<20081111142543.256C0127986@starfox.local>
	<4919C1A3.9090809@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4919F5F0.6080304@charter.net>

AMEN!

Garry Stahl wrote:
> Robert Meier wrote:
>   
>> Read man pages. 
>>     
>
> Man pages are of limited use.  Some are genuinely helpful, others 
> require a degree in computer engineering to understand.  The rest are 
> worse than useless.  In general a real mixed bag.  For the most part I 
> have found the advice "read the man page" to be unhelpful for the 
> beginner.  Why?  Most man pages are not written with the beginner in 
> mind, but the *nix expert.
>
> Relative "read the man page" newbie reporting.
>
>   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 
> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.1/1781 - Release Date: 11/11/2008 8:59 AM
>
>   

-- 

*Be kinder than necessary for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of 
battle.

*

Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you,

Jesus Christ and the American G. I.

One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

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From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 11 18:56:47 2008
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 18:56:47 -0500
Subject: [mdlug-newbie] Hello LUGgers!
In-Reply-To: <4919C1A3.9090809@comcast.net>
References: <1765d7c60811101143g5f71d6bbw1b35903af7b083d7@mail.gmail.com>	<20081111142543.256C0127986@starfox.local>
	<4919C1A3.9090809@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <491A1BBF.4020600@gmail.com>

Garry Stahl wrote:
> Robert Meier wrote:
>> Read man pages. 
> 
> Man pages are of limited use.  Some are genuinely helpful, others 
> require a degree in computer engineering to understand.  The rest are 
> worse than useless.  In general a real mixed bag.  For the most part I 
> have found the advice "read the man page" to be unhelpful for the 
> beginner.  Why?  Most man pages are not written with the beginner in 
> mind, but the *nix expert.

Reading manual pages does two things:

1 -- even if you don't understand it, you start to learn the
terminology of the *nix world.

2 -- it develops an awareness of capabilities, even if you don't
have an immediate need to use those capabilities.

MOST commands can be experimented with (playing with different
command line flags, etc) without causing any damage to the
system (i.e. those which present different forms of information,
or present it in different ways).

> 
> Relative "read the man page" newbie reporting.
> 



From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Wed Nov 12 00:15:40 2008
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Robert Meier)
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 00:15:40 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug-newbie] Linux Mint XFCE & MSI Wind
In-Reply-To: <1765d7c60811111344w351a39c3pd55aa505eb667b41@mail.gmail.com>
	(bfotiu@gmail.com)
References: <1765d7c60811111344w351a39c3pd55aa505eb667b41@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20081112051540.0B8A0127986@starfox.local>

Brandon,

> As of about an hour ago I've gotten the XFCE community edition of Linux Mint
> 5 Elyssa running on the Wind.

Good.



> I'm having a couple problems though.

> The biggest is that ACPI doesn't work by default.
> I can't boot with it enabled so I've resorted to adding "ACPI=off"
> to the Mint startup command.

Well done.

ACPI is not supported by all bioses.
apm is another protocol popular on laptops (e.g. Dell Latitude C600).
<IIRC>
Appending "acpi=off" kernel option will disable ACPI and enable apm.
</IIRC>

	---- bash> apm ----
AC on-line, battery status high: 100% (0:44)
	---- bash> apm ----



> The other is that I'm not totally sure how to get wireless working.
> I've heard there is a wrapper for the Windows driver but it only
> works on some hardware?

Unfortunately, some computers have "Win..." components that depend on
the CPU to execute propietary code.  Winmodems are an example.
Essentially they are a sound card.  The cpu executes code,
(usually proprietary) to perform the functions that would be
performed by a modem microcontroller.  In my experience the cost
of the cpu cycles, interrupts, and communications reliability lost
has been many times larger than the cost of an actual modem card,
an external modem, or upgrade to a better-equipped laptop.
I've seen the above loss frustrate those with the proprietary code,
as well as those without.

To determine what hardware you have,
most distros provide hwinfo(8) (Yup, a man page citation),
and many provide a gui for it.
Look for mention of "modem", "wlan", "803.11", "network interface",
and google (http://www.google.com/linux) for the hardware mentioned.

    ---- bash> /usr/sbin/hwinfo --wlan ----
05: PCI 1000.0: 0282 WLAN controller
[Created at pci.310]
UDI: /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/pci_8086_4222
Unique ID: y9sn.ME9ySuipOaE
Parent ID: qTvu.4chw4Z9dkyF
...
Hardware Class: network
Model: "Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG Network Connection"
Vendor: pci 0x8086 "Intel Corporation"
Device: pci 0x4222 "PRO/Wireless 3945ABG Network Connection"
SubVendor: pci 0x103c "Hewlett-Packard Company"
SubDevice: pci 0x135b
Revision: 0x02
Driver: "iwl3945"
Driver Modules: "iwl3945"
Device File: wlan0
Features: WLAN
...
Driver Info #0:
Driver Status: iwl3945 is active
Driver Activation Cmd: "modprobe iwl3945"
Config Status: cfg=no, avail=yes, need=no, active=unknown
Attached to: #18 (PCI bridge)
    ---- bash> /usr/sbin/hwinfo --wlan ----

Hopefully helpful,
-- 
Bob

  "The liberties of our country are worth defending at all hazards. We have
   received them from our worthy ancestors; they purchased them for us with
   toil, treasure and blood. It will bring an everlasting infamy on the
   present generation, enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them to be
   wrested from us...or be cheated out of them by the artifices of false and
   designing men."
	     -- Samuel Adams, 1771.


From bfotiu at gmail.com  Wed Nov 12 08:52:53 2008
From: bfotiu at gmail.com (Brandon Fotiu)
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 08:52:53 -0500
Subject: [mdlug-newbie] Linux Mint XFCE & MSI Wind
In-Reply-To: <20081112051540.0B8A0127986@starfox.local>
References: <1765d7c60811111344w351a39c3pd55aa505eb667b41@mail.gmail.com>
	<20081112051540.0B8A0127986@starfox.local>
Message-ID: <1765d7c60811120552t4adce348pbe3ae8caa0db51dc@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Bob!

I checked into apm and acpi but it when I try to do >apm i get a message of
"apm not supported by kernel".  Since Mint is sort of a custom Ubuntu I
guess this makes sense.  Is it really worth me recompiling the kernel for
apm support or would there be other options?  Alternatives to a recompile
are definitely something for me to look into since I've heard that's pretty
high level.

I was able to get my wlan working using the r8180 driver.  I followed a
tutorial from the MSI Wind forums.  Most people there are running straight
Ubuntu though so there are some situtions where I'm not sure how to access
certain settings.

For now at least I can get online, wired and wireless, compiz works and it
has a working OS.  It's a start but there's always more to do.

Thanks again!

Brandon

On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 12:15 AM, Robert Meier
<list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net>wrote:

> Brandon,
>
> > As of about an hour ago I've gotten the XFCE community edition of Linux
> Mint
> > 5 Elyssa running on the Wind.
>
> Good.
>
>
>
> > I'm having a couple problems though.
>
> > The biggest is that ACPI doesn't work by default.
> > I can't boot with it enabled so I've resorted to adding "ACPI=off"
> > to the Mint startup command.
>
> Well done.
>
> ACPI is not supported by all bioses.
> apm is another protocol popular on laptops (e.g. Dell Latitude C600).
> <IIRC>
> Appending "acpi=off" kernel option will disable ACPI and enable apm.
> </IIRC>
>
>        ---- bash> apm ----
> AC on-line, battery status high: 100% (0:44)
>        ---- bash> apm ----
>
>
>
> > The other is that I'm not totally sure how to get wireless working.
> > I've heard there is a wrapper for the Windows driver but it only
> > works on some hardware?
>
> Unfortunately, some computers have "Win..." components that depend on
> the CPU to execute propietary code.  Winmodems are an example.
> Essentially they are a sound card.  The cpu executes code,
> (usually proprietary) to perform the functions that would be
> performed by a modem microcontroller.  In my experience the cost
> of the cpu cycles, interrupts, and communications reliability lost
> has been many times larger than the cost of an actual modem card,
> an external modem, or upgrade to a better-equipped laptop.
> I've seen the above loss frustrate those with the proprietary code,
> as well as those without.
>
> To determine what hardware you have,
> most distros provide hwinfo(8) (Yup, a man page citation),
> and many provide a gui for it.
> Look for mention of "modem", "wlan", "803.11", "network interface",
> and google (http://www.google.com/linux) for the hardware mentioned.
>
>    ---- bash> /usr/sbin/hwinfo --wlan ----
> 05: PCI 1000.0: 0282 WLAN controller
> [Created at pci.310]
> UDI: /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/pci_8086_4222
> Unique ID: y9sn.ME9ySuipOaE
> Parent ID: qTvu.4chw4Z9dkyF
> ...
> Hardware Class: network
> Model: "Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG Network Connection"
> Vendor: pci 0x8086 "Intel Corporation"
> Device: pci 0x4222 "PRO/Wireless 3945ABG Network Connection"
> SubVendor: pci 0x103c "Hewlett-Packard Company"
> SubDevice: pci 0x135b
> Revision: 0x02
> Driver: "iwl3945"
> Driver Modules: "iwl3945"
> Device File: wlan0
> Features: WLAN
> ...
> Driver Info #0:
> Driver Status: iwl3945 is active
> Driver Activation Cmd: "modprobe iwl3945"
> Config Status: cfg=no, avail=yes, need=no, active=unknown
> Attached to: #18 (PCI bridge)
>    ---- bash> /usr/sbin/hwinfo --wlan ----
>
> Hopefully helpful,
> --
> Bob
>
>  "The liberties of our country are worth defending at all hazards. We have
>   received them from our worthy ancestors; they purchased them for us with
>   toil, treasure and blood. It will bring an everlasting infamy on the
>   present generation, enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them to be
>   wrested from us...or be cheated out of them by the artifices of false and
>   designing men."
>             -- Samuel Adams, 1771.
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug-newbie mailing list
> mdlug-newbie at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug-newbie
>
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From bfotiu at gmail.com  Mon Nov 10 14:43:03 2008
From: bfotiu at gmail.com (Brandon Fotiu)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 14:43:03 -0500
Subject: [mdlug-newbie] Hello LUGgers!
Message-ID: <1765d7c60811101143g5f71d6bbw1b35903af7b083d7@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

My name is Brandon and I got fed up with Windows a few months ago and
installed Linux Mint 5 Elyssa.  So far it's been a good experience overall
and most of my hardware is supported.  I'm looking for more information on
how to get everything I can out of Linux and I've been slowly learning the
way around my system and the terminal.  My next project for is to try and
get MythTV up and running on a spare box but from what I've read it's really
an advanced user type of program.  Anyway, I'm joining this list in the hope
that it keeps me from switching back so please be patient if I ask a really
simple questions.  Thanks for reading this and I look forward to
participating in the Michigan LUG community.

Brandon
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From tesral at comcast.net  Mon Nov 10 15:03:09 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:03:09 -0500
Subject: [mdlug-newbie] Hello LUGgers!
In-Reply-To: <1765d7c60811101143g5f71d6bbw1b35903af7b083d7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1765d7c60811101143g5f71d6bbw1b35903af7b083d7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4918937D.9070505@comcast.net>

Brandon Fotiu wrote:
> Hello,
>
> My name is Brandon and I got fed up with Windows a few months ago and 
> installed Linux Mint 5 Elyssa.  So far it's been a good experience 
> overall and most of my hardware is supported.  I'm looking for more 
> information on how to get everything I can out of Linux and I've been 
> slowly learning the way around my system and the terminal.  My next 
> project for is to try and get MythTV up and running on a spare box but 
> from what I've read it's really an advanced user type of program.  
> Anyway, I'm joining this list in the hope that it keeps me from 
> switching back so please be patient if I ask a really simple 
> questions.  Thanks for reading this and I look forward to 
> participating in the Michigan LUG community.
>
> Brandon

Welcome to Linux.

Well I cannot recommend this as I have yet to try it myself, but if your 
willing to drop a few bucks. the November Linux Format magazine is on 
MythTV and has a Mythbuntu distro as the DVD of the month.  Now, I have 
not yet read the articles or done squat with this distro, in fact it's 
still in the magazine, but it is there.


-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From tony at bemushosting.com  Mon Nov 10 15:10:37 2008
From: tony at bemushosting.com (Tony Bemus)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:10:37 -0500
Subject: [mdlug-newbie] Hello LUGgers!
In-Reply-To: <1765d7c60811101143g5f71d6bbw1b35903af7b083d7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1765d7c60811101143g5f71d6bbw1b35903af7b083d7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1226347837.5979.5.camel@bemus-tony>

Welcome Brandon!!!

     If you want a media center / Home Theater PC then you should look
at Linux MCE.  It uses MythTV to watch and record TV and it has a lot of
other features.  The MythTV setup is easy as long as you have a
supported capture card.
Check out these links for more info:
Linux MCE: http://linuxmce.com/ 
MythTV Supported hardware:
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Video_capture_card

-  
Tony Bemus
http://www.bemushosting.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Brandon Fotiu <bfotiu at gmail.com>
Reply-to: "A place where there are no dumb \(linux related\) questions."
<mdlug-newbie at mdlug.org>
To: mdlug-newbie at mdlug.org
Subject: [mdlug-newbie] Hello LUGgers!
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 14:43:03 -0500

Hello,

My name is Brandon and I got fed up with Windows a few months ago and
installed Linux Mint 5 Elyssa.  So far it's been a good experience
overall and most of my hardware is supported.  I'm looking for more
information on how to get everything I can out of Linux and I've been
slowly learning the way around my system and the terminal.  My next
project for is to try and get MythTV up and running on a spare box but
from what I've read it's really an advanced user type of program.
Anyway, I'm joining this list in the hope that it keeps me from
switching back so please be patient if I ask a really simple questions.
Thanks for reading this and I look forward to participating in the
Michigan LUG community.

Brandon


_______________________________________________
mdlug-newbie mailing list
mdlug-newbie at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug-newbie



From PHornung at gonzprodsys.com  Mon Nov 10 15:25:14 2008
From: PHornung at gonzprodsys.com (Patrick Hornung)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:25:14 -0500
Subject: [mdlug-newbie] Hello LUGgers!
In-Reply-To: <4918937D.9070505@comcast.net>
References: <1765d7c60811101143g5f71d6bbw1b35903af7b083d7@mail.gmail.com>
	<4918937D.9070505@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <56E219797FC0CB47AE0613B1849BD65232B2D74892@postal2.gonzalez-group.com>

I can personally recommend Mythbuntu, as I've used it for over a year now for a home MythTV setup.  If you're already using Mint, using Mythbuntu will have a very familiar interface.  They Mythbuntu control center is quite nice when getting started, as well.

In my experience, MythTV (overall) has been very good.  However, you'll need to have patience with it.  The prevailing opinion of those running MythTV is that if you don't like to fiddle with your DVR system, a TiVo is the better route.  If you like to fiddle with it, MythTV is the way to go.  It's very flexible and allows you a great deal of control over your DVR system, especially with regards to having multiple frontends.

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-newbie-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-newbie-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Garry Stahl
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 3:03 PM
To: A place where there are no dumb (linux related) questions.
Subject: Re: [mdlug-newbie] Hello LUGgers!

Brandon Fotiu wrote:
> Hello,
>
> My name is Brandon and I got fed up with Windows a few months ago and
> installed Linux Mint 5 Elyssa.  So far it's been a good experience
> overall and most of my hardware is supported.  I'm looking for more
> information on how to get everything I can out of Linux and I've been
> slowly learning the way around my system and the terminal.  My next
> project for is to try and get MythTV up and running on a spare box but
> from what I've read it's really an advanced user type of program.
> Anyway, I'm joining this list in the hope that it keeps me from
> switching back so please be patient if I ask a really simple
> questions.  Thanks for reading this and I look forward to
> participating in the Michigan LUG community.
>
> Brandon

Welcome to Linux.

Well I cannot recommend this as I have yet to try it myself, but if your
willing to drop a few bucks. the November Linux Format magazine is on
MythTV and has a Mythbuntu distro as the DVD of the month.  Now, I have
not yet read the articles or done squat with this distro, in fact it's
still in the magazine, but it is there.


--
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org

_______________________________________________
mdlug-newbie mailing list
mdlug-newbie at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug-newbie


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Mon Nov 10 15:18:56 2008
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:18:56 -0500
Subject: [mdlug-newbie] Hello LUGgers!
In-Reply-To: <1765d7c60811101143g5f71d6bbw1b35903af7b083d7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1765d7c60811101143g5f71d6bbw1b35903af7b083d7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B20E@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>

> From: Brandon Fotiu

> Anyway, I'm joining this list in the hope that it keeps me from
> switching back so please be patient if I ask a really simple
questions.

That is a huge part of what we're here for, to help each other out.
Don't hesitate to ask questions, quite often we all learn something from
the answers. Welcome!

Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                            (313) 227-2317

 "It is morally as bad not to care whether a thing is true or not, so
   long as it makes you feel good, as it is not to care how you got
       your money as long as you have got it." - Edwin Way Teale
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.


From sngrant at mac.com  Mon Nov 10 15:01:02 2008
From: sngrant at mac.com (Stuart)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:01:02 -0500
Subject: [mdlug-newbie] Hello LUGgers!
In-Reply-To: <1765d7c60811101143g5f71d6bbw1b35903af7b083d7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1765d7c60811101143g5f71d6bbw1b35903af7b083d7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <202B8D30-585F-494F-BA3A-A0903FF53DAF@mac.com>

Hi Brandon,

I too am new to Linux and LUG.  I have used Macs for the past 10  
years, I occasionally used a box running open Suse, and only learned  
the true level of retardation of windows two years ago when I started  
college.  There was a short time I used a NEXT Station color, which  
was the aunix based predecesor to Mac OS X, but sold that machine to  
pay some bills.  Out for delivery today is my Asus EEE PC 100, with  
its own custom xandros.  I don't want to put XP on it if I can't find  
a decent CAD program available for a Linux distro.  Thanks for  
listening to me ramble, I'm sure I will have "TONS" of questions in  
time.

Stuart Grant
Mt. Clemens

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 10, 2008, at 2:43 PM, Brandon Fotiu <bfotiu at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> My name is Brandon and I got fed up with Windows a few months ago  
> and installed Linux Mint 5 Elyssa.  So far it's been a good  
> experience overall and most of my hardware is supported.  I'm  
> looking for more information on how to get everything I can out of  
> Linux and I've been slowly learning the way around my system and the  
> terminal.  My next project for is to try and get MythTV up and  
> running on a spare box but from what I've read it's really an  
> advanced user type of program.  Anyway, I'm joining this list in the  
> hope that it keeps me from switching back so please be patient if I  
> ask a really simple questions.  Thanks for reading this and I look  
> forward to participating in the Michigan LUG community.
>
> Brandon
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug-newbie mailing list
> mdlug-newbie at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug-newbie


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 11 07:07:11 2008
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 07:07:11 -0500
Subject: [mdlug-newbie] Hello LUGgers!
In-Reply-To: <1765d7c60811101143g5f71d6bbw1b35903af7b083d7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1765d7c60811101143g5f71d6bbw1b35903af7b083d7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4919756F.5000909@gmail.com>

Brandon Fotiu wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> My name is Brandon and I got fed up with Windows a few months ago and 
> installed Linux Mint 5 Elyssa.  So far it's been a good experience 
> overall and most of my hardware is supported.  I'm looking for more 
> information on how to get everything I can out of Linux and I've been 
> slowly learning the way around my system and the terminal.  My next 
> project for is to try and get MythTV up and running on a spare box but 
> from what I've read it's really an advanced user type of program.  
> Anyway, I'm joining this list in the hope that it keeps me from 
> switching back so please be patient if I ask a really simple questions.  
> Thanks for reading this and I look forward to participating in the 
> Michigan LUG community.

The key is to get all of your ESSENTIAL activities (e-mail, etc.)
done on Linux.  Once you're doing that, the temptation to revert
back to Windows evaporates in short order.

Now that the Wine project has reached the 1.0 stage, even the
temptation to have Windows around for games is gone. 



From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 11 07:11:44 2008
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 07:11:44 -0500
Subject: [mdlug-newbie] Hello LUGgers!
In-Reply-To: <202B8D30-585F-494F-BA3A-A0903FF53DAF@mac.com>
References: <1765d7c60811101143g5f71d6bbw1b35903af7b083d7@mail.gmail.com>
	<202B8D30-585F-494F-BA3A-A0903FF53DAF@mac.com>
Message-ID: <49197680.10704@gmail.com>

Stuart wrote:
> Hi Brandon,
> 
> I too am new to Linux and LUG.  I have used Macs for the past 10  
> years, I occasionally used a box running open Suse, and only learned  
> the true level of retardation of windows two years ago when I started  
> college.  There was a short time I used a NEXT Station color, which  
> was the aunix based predecesor to Mac OS X, but sold that machine to  
> pay some bills.  Out for delivery today is my Asus EEE PC 100, with  
> its own custom xandros.  I don't want to put XP on it if I can't find  
> a decent CAD program available for a Linux distro.  Thanks for  
> listening to me ramble, I'm sure I will have "TONS" of questions in  
> time.
> 
> Stuart Grant
> Mt. Clemens
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Nov 10, 2008, at 2:43 PM, Brandon Fotiu <bfotiu at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hello,
>>
>> My name is Brandon and I got fed up with Windows a few months ago  
>> and installed Linux Mint 5 Elyssa.  So far it's been a good  
>> experience overall and most of my hardware is supported.  I'm  
>> looking for more information on how to get everything I can out of  
>> Linux and I've been slowly learning the way around my system and the  
>> terminal.  My next project for is to try and get MythTV up and  
>> running on a spare box but from what I've read it's really an  
>> advanced user type of program.  Anyway, I'm joining this list in the  
>> hope that it keeps me from switching back so please be patient if I  
>> ask a really simple questions.  Thanks for reading this and I look  
>> forward to participating in the Michigan LUG community.

A lot of Unix-land CAD programs have been ported to Linux.
It's usually no more difficult (and oftentimes, much less
difficult) to port a Unix app to Linux than to port from one 
of the proprietary Unix versions to another (HP-UX, IRIX,
AIX, Solaris).


From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 11 08:44:48 2008
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 08:44:48 -0500
Subject: [mdlug-newbie] Hello LUGgers!
In-Reply-To: <319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B20E@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <1765d7c60811101143g5f71d6bbw1b35903af7b083d7@mail.gmail.com>
	<319C03F7A120754B9128CF308BF5E0370120B20E@nasa-dtw-ex004.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <49198C50.8090507@gmail.com>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>> From: Brandon Fotiu
> 
>> Anyway, I'm joining this list in the hope that it keeps me from
>> switching back so please be patient if I ask a really simple
> questions.
> 
> That is a huge part of what we're here for, to help each other out.
> Don't hesitate to ask questions, quite often we all learn something from
> the answers. Welcome!

Sometimes, I even learn something WRITING an answer.




From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Tue Nov 11 09:25:43 2008
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Robert Meier)
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 09:25:43 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug-newbie] Hello LUGgers!
In-Reply-To: <1765d7c60811101143g5f71d6bbw1b35903af7b083d7@mail.gmail.com>
	(bfotiu@gmail.com)
References: <1765d7c60811101143g5f71d6bbw1b35903af7b083d7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20081111142543.256C0127986@starfox.local>

Brandon,

Welcome.

> ... I ... installed Linux Mint 5 Elyssa.

I'm using SuSE-10.1 at home and CentOS-5 at work, so I'm more familiar
with them.

> I'm looking for more information ...

I can strongly recommend reading "The Art of Unix Programming" by
Eric Raymond (ISBN 0-13-142901-9, http://www.faqs.org/docs/artu/)

I recommend always loading the docs that come with any package (some distros
routinely install the docs only on request).

Read man pages.  (man(1) is an executable that provides online documentation
in a "technical spec" format.  You'll see references cited as
<executable>(<section-number>) like ls(1), passwd(5), mount(8) for 'list
directory contents', 'password file', and 'mount a file system'.
You can nominally read a man page (e.g. description of section 5) from
the terminal with ('bash>' indicates your prompt.  Like a stage direction,
you don't actually type it, only what follows.)

bash> man 5 intro 

You can also search the man pages by finding words in the 'NAME' portion

bash> man -k hostname

Documentation, especially tutorials, faqs, ... is usually available in
hypertext (linked) formats like info, and html.



> ... I've been slowly learning the way around my system and the terminal.

Good.

Be aware that while to unix, "everything is a file".  Unix executables
nearly universally split into an "engine" (which operates via file,
i.e. config file, script, command-line-interface), and a "front-end"
(which presents the file via a graphical-user-interface).

There are many styles of "front-end"s adapted to user tastes, and
usage scenarios.  Most distros (e.g. Mint 5, SuSE, Mepis, RedHat, ...)
differ in their default choice of "front-end"s.

Consequently, when you ask questions, expect to get answers in terms
of cli and config file, but if desired, you can use the gui tools
provided by your distro (or added by you).

If a gui is not already available (and not worth installing for something
you don't plan to do often), you can always fall back on the command line.

People have strong opinions regarding choice of gui tools (and distros),
but I recommend you listen for the pros and cons of each, try several
(e.g. Mint 5, SuSE, RedHat, Ubuntu, Gentoo), and gravitate toward those
which suit you best.

> My next project for is to try and get MythTV up and running ...

I'm hoping to do the same soon.

> Anyway, ... please be patient if I ask a really simple questions.

That's what the mdlug-newbie list is for.

Welcome,
-- 
Bob

 "Destruction is *easy*. Even stupid people and weather formations can
    do it. If you think you're so cool, try *improving* something."
	      -- Ray Ingles 1997



From tesral at comcast.net  Tue Nov 11 12:32:19 2008
From: tesral at comcast.net (Garry Stahl)
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 12:32:19 -0500
Subject: [mdlug-newbie] Hello LUGgers!
In-Reply-To: <20081111142543.256C0127986@starfox.local>
References: <1765d7c60811101143g5f71d6bbw1b35903af7b083d7@mail.gmail.com>
	<20081111142543.256C0127986@starfox.local>
Message-ID: <4919C1A3.9090809@comcast.net>

Robert Meier wrote:
> Read man pages. 

Man pages are of limited use.  Some are genuinely helpful, others 
require a degree in computer engineering to understand.  The rest are 
worse than useless.  In general a real mixed bag.  For the most part I 
have found the advice "read the man page" to be unhelpful for the 
beginner.  Why?  Most man pages are not written with the beginner in 
mind, but the *nix expert.

Relative "read the man page" newbie reporting.

-- 
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org



From PHornung at gonzprodsys.com  Tue Nov 11 13:09:41 2008
From: PHornung at gonzprodsys.com (Patrick Hornung)
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 13:09:41 -0500
Subject: [mdlug-newbie] Hello LUGgers!
In-Reply-To: <4919C1A3.9090809@comcast.net>
References: <1765d7c60811101143g5f71d6bbw1b35903af7b083d7@mail.gmail.com>
	<20081111142543.256C0127986@starfox.local>
	<4919C1A3.9090809@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <56E219797FC0CB47AE0613B1849BD65232B2D749AB@postal2.gonzalez-group.com>

Indeed.  'google for it' is almost always better than 'read the man page'.

-----Original Message-----
From: mdlug-newbie-bounces at mdlug.org [mailto:mdlug-newbie-bounces at mdlug.org] On Behalf Of Garry Stahl
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 12:32 PM
To: A place where there are no dumb (linux related) questions.
Subject: Re: [mdlug-newbie] Hello LUGgers!

Robert Meier wrote:
> Read man pages.

Man pages are of limited use.  Some are genuinely helpful, others
require a degree in computer engineering to understand.  The rest are
worse than useless.  In general a real mixed bag.  For the most part I
have found the advice "read the man page" to be unhelpful for the
beginner.  Why?  Most man pages are not written with the beginner in
mind, but the *nix expert.

Relative "read the man page" newbie reporting.

--
Garry  AKA  --Phoenix--  Rising above the Flames.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Star Trek mort. Viva la Star Trek admiraetur
The Olde Phoenix Inn http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com
Metro Detroit Linux Users Group http://www.mdlug.org

_______________________________________________
mdlug-newbie mailing list
mdlug-newbie at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug-newbie


From bfotiu at gmail.com  Tue Nov 11 16:44:42 2008
From: bfotiu at gmail.com (Brandon Fotiu)
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 16:44:42 -0500
Subject: [mdlug-newbie] Linux Mint XFCE & MSI Wind
Message-ID: <1765d7c60811111344w351a39c3pd55aa505eb667b41@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everyone,

So I went over to Micro Center yesterday and bought myself an MSI Wind
Laptop (the MSi U100).  For those that aren't familiar it's one of the new
'netbook' style laptops.  Intel Atom 1.6Ghz CPU, 2Gb RAM (I upgraded it from
1), 120GB harddrive, Bluetooth, wireless b/g, etc etc.

The only thing about it is, since it's a netbook, it doesn't have an optical
drive.  The harddrive comes from the factory with two partitions on it, one
for boot and one for storage.  When I booted it for the first time it
installed Windows XP Home edition and everything ran smoothly.  I connected
to my wireless network, installed Firefox and just as I was trying out
hulu.com to check performance the battery ran flat and it lost power.  With
other laptops I've had this happen and, while I know it's not a good thing
to do, they have all started back up.

Instead, when it tried to boot into XP again (from AC power) it hung
endlessly.  I did a safe mode boot and it kept getting to mup.sys and then
doing nothing (for at least 15 minutes).  It reminded me a lot of when I
switched my main box over to Mint, there were no other options other than a
complete reinstall or an iffy scandisk.  I learned that MS doesn't bundle
their Recovery Console by default in XP Home during this process too.  So
after spending a few hours reading about BartPE and how to bundle the XP
Server 2003 ramdisk file into a vanilla XP Home distro I got fed up and
decided to get Mint running instead.

As of about an hour ago I've gotten the XFCE community edition of Linux Mint
5 Elyssa running on the Wind.  I'm having a couple problems though.  The
biggest is that ACPI doesn't work by default.  I can't boot with it enabled
so I've resorted to adding "ACPI=off" to the Mint startup command.  The
other is that I'm not totally sure how to get wireless working.  I've heard
there is a wrapper for the Windows driver but it only works on some
hardware?

Anyway, it's up and running and I'm doing an update right now (using the
wired ethernet connection) but if anyone can tell me about ACPI or wireless
I would really appreciate it.

Thanks,

Brandon
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From towalf at charter.net  Tue Nov 11 16:15:28 2008
From: towalf at charter.net (Kevin S. Spencer)
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 16:15:28 -0500
Subject: [mdlug-newbie] Hello LUGgers!
In-Reply-To: <4919C1A3.9090809@comcast.net>
References: <1765d7c60811101143g5f71d6bbw1b35903af7b083d7@mail.gmail.com>	<20081111142543.256C0127986@starfox.local>
	<4919C1A3.9090809@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4919F5F0.6080304@charter.net>

AMEN!

Garry Stahl wrote:
> Robert Meier wrote:
>   
>> Read man pages. 
>>     
>
> Man pages are of limited use.  Some are genuinely helpful, others 
> require a degree in computer engineering to understand.  The rest are 
> worse than useless.  In general a real mixed bag.  For the most part I 
> have found the advice "read the man page" to be unhelpful for the 
> beginner.  Why?  Most man pages are not written with the beginner in 
> mind, but the *nix expert.
>
> Relative "read the man page" newbie reporting.
>
>   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 
> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.1/1781 - Release Date: 11/11/2008 8:59 AM
>
>   

-- 

*Be kinder than necessary for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of 
battle.

*

Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you,

Jesus Christ and the American G. I.

One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

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From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 11 18:56:47 2008
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 18:56:47 -0500
Subject: [mdlug-newbie] Hello LUGgers!
In-Reply-To: <4919C1A3.9090809@comcast.net>
References: <1765d7c60811101143g5f71d6bbw1b35903af7b083d7@mail.gmail.com>	<20081111142543.256C0127986@starfox.local>
	<4919C1A3.9090809@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <491A1BBF.4020600@gmail.com>

Garry Stahl wrote:
> Robert Meier wrote:
>> Read man pages. 
> 
> Man pages are of limited use.  Some are genuinely helpful, others 
> require a degree in computer engineering to understand.  The rest are 
> worse than useless.  In general a real mixed bag.  For the most part I 
> have found the advice "read the man page" to be unhelpful for the 
> beginner.  Why?  Most man pages are not written with the beginner in 
> mind, but the *nix expert.

Reading manual pages does two things:

1 -- even if you don't understand it, you start to learn the
terminology of the *nix world.

2 -- it develops an awareness of capabilities, even if you don't
have an immediate need to use those capabilities.

MOST commands can be experimented with (playing with different
command line flags, etc) without causing any damage to the
system (i.e. those which present different forms of information,
or present it in different ways).

> 
> Relative "read the man page" newbie reporting.
> 



From list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net  Wed Nov 12 00:15:40 2008
From: list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net (Robert Meier)
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 00:15:40 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [mdlug-newbie] Linux Mint XFCE & MSI Wind
In-Reply-To: <1765d7c60811111344w351a39c3pd55aa505eb667b41@mail.gmail.com>
	(bfotiu@gmail.com)
References: <1765d7c60811111344w351a39c3pd55aa505eb667b41@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20081112051540.0B8A0127986@starfox.local>

Brandon,

> As of about an hour ago I've gotten the XFCE community edition of Linux Mint
> 5 Elyssa running on the Wind.

Good.



> I'm having a couple problems though.

> The biggest is that ACPI doesn't work by default.
> I can't boot with it enabled so I've resorted to adding "ACPI=off"
> to the Mint startup command.

Well done.

ACPI is not supported by all bioses.
apm is another protocol popular on laptops (e.g. Dell Latitude C600).
<IIRC>
Appending "acpi=off" kernel option will disable ACPI and enable apm.
</IIRC>

	---- bash> apm ----
AC on-line, battery status high: 100% (0:44)
	---- bash> apm ----



> The other is that I'm not totally sure how to get wireless working.
> I've heard there is a wrapper for the Windows driver but it only
> works on some hardware?

Unfortunately, some computers have "Win..." components that depend on
the CPU to execute propietary code.  Winmodems are an example.
Essentially they are a sound card.  The cpu executes code,
(usually proprietary) to perform the functions that would be
performed by a modem microcontroller.  In my experience the cost
of the cpu cycles, interrupts, and communications reliability lost
has been many times larger than the cost of an actual modem card,
an external modem, or upgrade to a better-equipped laptop.
I've seen the above loss frustrate those with the proprietary code,
as well as those without.

To determine what hardware you have,
most distros provide hwinfo(8) (Yup, a man page citation),
and many provide a gui for it.
Look for mention of "modem", "wlan", "803.11", "network interface",
and google (http://www.google.com/linux) for the hardware mentioned.

    ---- bash> /usr/sbin/hwinfo --wlan ----
05: PCI 1000.0: 0282 WLAN controller
[Created at pci.310]
UDI: /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/pci_8086_4222
Unique ID: y9sn.ME9ySuipOaE
Parent ID: qTvu.4chw4Z9dkyF
...
Hardware Class: network
Model: "Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG Network Connection"
Vendor: pci 0x8086 "Intel Corporation"
Device: pci 0x4222 "PRO/Wireless 3945ABG Network Connection"
SubVendor: pci 0x103c "Hewlett-Packard Company"
SubDevice: pci 0x135b
Revision: 0x02
Driver: "iwl3945"
Driver Modules: "iwl3945"
Device File: wlan0
Features: WLAN
...
Driver Info #0:
Driver Status: iwl3945 is active
Driver Activation Cmd: "modprobe iwl3945"
Config Status: cfg=no, avail=yes, need=no, active=unknown
Attached to: #18 (PCI bridge)
    ---- bash> /usr/sbin/hwinfo --wlan ----

Hopefully helpful,
-- 
Bob

  "The liberties of our country are worth defending at all hazards. We have
   received them from our worthy ancestors; they purchased them for us with
   toil, treasure and blood. It will bring an everlasting infamy on the
   present generation, enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them to be
   wrested from us...or be cheated out of them by the artifices of false and
   designing men."
	     -- Samuel Adams, 1771.


From bfotiu at gmail.com  Wed Nov 12 08:52:53 2008
From: bfotiu at gmail.com (Brandon Fotiu)
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 08:52:53 -0500
Subject: [mdlug-newbie] Linux Mint XFCE & MSI Wind
In-Reply-To: <20081112051540.0B8A0127986@starfox.local>
References: <1765d7c60811111344w351a39c3pd55aa505eb667b41@mail.gmail.com>
	<20081112051540.0B8A0127986@starfox.local>
Message-ID: <1765d7c60811120552t4adce348pbe3ae8caa0db51dc@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Bob!

I checked into apm and acpi but it when I try to do >apm i get a message of
"apm not supported by kernel".  Since Mint is sort of a custom Ubuntu I
guess this makes sense.  Is it really worth me recompiling the kernel for
apm support or would there be other options?  Alternatives to a recompile
are definitely something for me to look into since I've heard that's pretty
high level.

I was able to get my wlan working using the r8180 driver.  I followed a
tutorial from the MSI Wind forums.  Most people there are running straight
Ubuntu though so there are some situtions where I'm not sure how to access
certain settings.

For now at least I can get online, wired and wireless, compiz works and it
has a working OS.  It's a start but there's always more to do.

Thanks again!

Brandon

On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 12:15 AM, Robert Meier
<list1c30fe42 at bellsouth.net>wrote:

> Brandon,
>
> > As of about an hour ago I've gotten the XFCE community edition of Linux
> Mint
> > 5 Elyssa running on the Wind.
>
> Good.
>
>
>
> > I'm having a couple problems though.
>
> > The biggest is that ACPI doesn't work by default.
> > I can't boot with it enabled so I've resorted to adding "ACPI=off"
> > to the Mint startup command.
>
> Well done.
>
> ACPI is not supported by all bioses.
> apm is another protocol popular on laptops (e.g. Dell Latitude C600).
> <IIRC>
> Appending "acpi=off" kernel option will disable ACPI and enable apm.
> </IIRC>
>
>        ---- bash> apm ----
> AC on-line, battery status high: 100% (0:44)
>        ---- bash> apm ----
>
>
>
> > The other is that I'm not totally sure how to get wireless working.
> > I've heard there is a wrapper for the Windows driver but it only
> > works on some hardware?
>
> Unfortunately, some computers have "Win..." components that depend on
> the CPU to execute propietary code.  Winmodems are an example.
> Essentially they are a sound card.  The cpu executes code,
> (usually proprietary) to perform the functions that would be
> performed by a modem microcontroller.  In my experience the cost
> of the cpu cycles, interrupts, and communications reliability lost
> has been many times larger than the cost of an actual modem card,
> an external modem, or upgrade to a better-equipped laptop.
> I've seen the above loss frustrate those with the proprietary code,
> as well as those without.
>
> To determine what hardware you have,
> most distros provide hwinfo(8) (Yup, a man page citation),
> and many provide a gui for it.
> Look for mention of "modem", "wlan", "803.11", "network interface",
> and google (http://www.google.com/linux) for the hardware mentioned.
>
>    ---- bash> /usr/sbin/hwinfo --wlan ----
> 05: PCI 1000.0: 0282 WLAN controller
> [Created at pci.310]
> UDI: /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/pci_8086_4222
> Unique ID: y9sn.ME9ySuipOaE
> Parent ID: qTvu.4chw4Z9dkyF
> ...
> Hardware Class: network
> Model: "Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG Network Connection"
> Vendor: pci 0x8086 "Intel Corporation"
> Device: pci 0x4222 "PRO/Wireless 3945ABG Network Connection"
> SubVendor: pci 0x103c "Hewlett-Packard Company"
> SubDevice: pci 0x135b
> Revision: 0x02
> Driver: "iwl3945"
> Driver Modules: "iwl3945"
> Device File: wlan0
> Features: WLAN
> ...
> Driver Info #0:
> Driver Status: iwl3945 is active
> Driver Activation Cmd: "modprobe iwl3945"
> Config Status: cfg=no, avail=yes, need=no, active=unknown
> Attached to: #18 (PCI bridge)
>    ---- bash> /usr/sbin/hwinfo --wlan ----
>
> Hopefully helpful,
> --
> Bob
>
>  "The liberties of our country are worth defending at all hazards. We have
>   received them from our worthy ancestors; they purchased them for us with
>   toil, treasure and blood. It will bring an everlasting infamy on the
>   present generation, enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them to be
>   wrested from us...or be cheated out of them by the artifices of false and
>   designing men."
>             -- Samuel Adams, 1771.
> _______________________________________________
> mdlug-newbie mailing list
> mdlug-newbie at mdlug.org
> http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug-newbie
>
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