From lnovak1 at ford.com  Tue Nov 10 08:44:58 2009
From: lnovak1 at ford.com (Novak, Louis (L.M.))
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 08:44:58 -0500
Subject: [mdlug-discuss] Winds of Change
Message-ID: <3CBA88B60640E2469F35938BCD5EBA4C062FEC5C@na1ecm24.ecc2.ford.com>


"When the winds of change blow, some people build walls and others build
windmills." - Chinese proverb 


http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=a-path-to-sustainable-e
nergy-by-2030 

A Plan to Power 100 Percent of the Planet with Renewables

Key Concepts

*	Supplies of wind and solar energy on accessible land dwarf the
energy consumed by people around the globe.
*	The authors' plan calls for 3.8 million large wind turbines,
90,000 solar plants, and numerous geothermal, tidal and rooftop
photovoltaic installations worldwide.
*	The cost of generating and transmitting power would be less than
the projected cost per kilowatt-hour for fossil-fuel and nuclear power.
*	Shortages of a few specialty materials, along with lack of
political will, loom as the greatest obstacles.


-- 
Louis Novak  lnovak1 at ford.com   (313)248-6788 
Ford Motor Co., IT Security & Strategy 
Eco-Tip: Bottled water is a waste of money and resources. 
Drink tap water from a reusable container instead.



From amajorov at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 10 09:50:42 2009
From: amajorov at yahoo.com (Allen Majorovic)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 06:50:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug-discuss] Winds of Change
In-Reply-To: <3CBA88B60640E2469F35938BCD5EBA4C062FEC5C@na1ecm24.ecc2.ford.com>
Message-ID: <965655.60675.qm@web32603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

--- On Tue, 11/10/09, Novak, Louis (L.M.) <lnovak1 at ford.com> wrote:

From: Novak, Louis (L.M.) <lnovak1 at ford.com>
Subject: [mdlug-discuss] Winds of Change
To: mdlug-discuss at mdlug.org
Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 8:44 AM


"When the winds of change blow, some people build walls and others build
windmills." - Chinese proverb 


http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=a-path-to-sustainable-e
nergy-by-2030 

A Plan to Power 100 Percent of the Planet with Renewables

Key Concepts

*??? Supplies of wind and solar energy on accessible land dwarf the
energy consumed by people around the globe.
*??? The authors' plan calls for 3.8 million large wind turbines,
90,000 solar plants, and numerous geothermal, tidal and rooftop
photovoltaic installations worldwide.
*??? The cost of generating and transmitting power would be less than
the projected cost per kilowatt-hour for fossil-fuel and nuclear power.
*??? Shortages of a few specialty materials, along with lack of
political will, loom as the greatest obstacles.


-- 
Louis Novak? lnovak1 at ford.com???(313)248-6788 
Ford Motor Co., IT Security & Strategy 
Eco-Tip: Bottled water is a waste of money and resources. 
Drink tap water from a reusable container instead.

_______________________________________________
mdlug-discuss mailing list
mdlug-discuss at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug-discuss

1) It's behind a pay wall.
2) It's SciAm which, after their trashing of Bjorn Lomborg, has no credibility having given up any pretense of a claim on scientific rigor by refusing to run a response.
3) As someone else in the thread observed all the various "alternative" power sources are diffuse in nature. You'll have to cover a stupendous amount of land in order to even come close to generating sufficient electricity. You think the people who favor these ideas will favor using the land necessary to implement them?
4) Since all the mentioned sources aren't economically self-sustaining, that's why they require huge subsidies, where's the money supposed to come from to fund this scheme?

Allen








      
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From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 10 12:30:51 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 12:30:51 -0500
Subject: [mdlug-discuss] Winds of Change
In-Reply-To: <3CBA88B60640E2469F35938BCD5EBA4C062FEC5C@na1ecm24.ecc2.ford.com>
References: <3CBA88B60640E2469F35938BCD5EBA4C062FEC5C@na1ecm24.ecc2.ford.com>
Message-ID: <4AF9A34B.4040305@gmail.com>

Novak, Louis (L.M.) wrote:
> "When the winds of change blow, some people build walls and others build
> windmills." - Chinese proverb 
> 
> 
> http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=a-path-to-sustainable-e
> nergy-by-2030 
> 
> A Plan to Power 100 Percent of the Planet with Renewables
> 
> Key Concepts
> 
> *	Supplies of wind and solar energy on accessible land dwarf the
> energy consumed by people around the globe.
> *	The authors' plan calls for 3.8 million large wind turbines,
> 90,000 solar plants, and numerous geothermal, tidal and rooftop
> photovoltaic installations worldwide.
> *	The cost of generating and transmitting power would be less than
> the projected cost per kilowatt-hour for fossil-fuel and nuclear power.
> *	Shortages of a few specialty materials, along with lack of
> political will, loom as the greatest obstacles.
> 
> 

 I used to be a subscriber to Scientific American.  I started
reading it in the late 70's.

I quit reading it when it became clear that changes in the
editorial staff had caused political causes and spin to
take precedence over science.

Yes, there is LOTS of energy, but anyone with an even
basic understanding of thermodynamics will tell you that
some forms of energy are less recoverable than others,
even assuming loss-less conversion.

The above list is political, not scientific.


From lnovak1 at ford.com  Tue Nov 10 08:44:58 2009
From: lnovak1 at ford.com (Novak, Louis (L.M.))
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 08:44:58 -0500
Subject: [mdlug-discuss] Winds of Change
Message-ID: <3CBA88B60640E2469F35938BCD5EBA4C062FEC5C@na1ecm24.ecc2.ford.com>


"When the winds of change blow, some people build walls and others build
windmills." - Chinese proverb 


http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=a-path-to-sustainable-e
nergy-by-2030 

A Plan to Power 100 Percent of the Planet with Renewables

Key Concepts

*	Supplies of wind and solar energy on accessible land dwarf the
energy consumed by people around the globe.
*	The authors' plan calls for 3.8 million large wind turbines,
90,000 solar plants, and numerous geothermal, tidal and rooftop
photovoltaic installations worldwide.
*	The cost of generating and transmitting power would be less than
the projected cost per kilowatt-hour for fossil-fuel and nuclear power.
*	Shortages of a few specialty materials, along with lack of
political will, loom as the greatest obstacles.


-- 
Louis Novak  lnovak1 at ford.com   (313)248-6788 
Ford Motor Co., IT Security & Strategy 
Eco-Tip: Bottled water is a waste of money and resources. 
Drink tap water from a reusable container instead.



From amajorov at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 10 09:50:42 2009
From: amajorov at yahoo.com (Allen Majorovic)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 06:50:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [mdlug-discuss] Winds of Change
In-Reply-To: <3CBA88B60640E2469F35938BCD5EBA4C062FEC5C@na1ecm24.ecc2.ford.com>
Message-ID: <965655.60675.qm@web32603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

--- On Tue, 11/10/09, Novak, Louis (L.M.) <lnovak1 at ford.com> wrote:

From: Novak, Louis (L.M.) <lnovak1 at ford.com>
Subject: [mdlug-discuss] Winds of Change
To: mdlug-discuss at mdlug.org
Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 8:44 AM


"When the winds of change blow, some people build walls and others build
windmills." - Chinese proverb 


http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=a-path-to-sustainable-e
nergy-by-2030 

A Plan to Power 100 Percent of the Planet with Renewables

Key Concepts

*??? Supplies of wind and solar energy on accessible land dwarf the
energy consumed by people around the globe.
*??? The authors' plan calls for 3.8 million large wind turbines,
90,000 solar plants, and numerous geothermal, tidal and rooftop
photovoltaic installations worldwide.
*??? The cost of generating and transmitting power would be less than
the projected cost per kilowatt-hour for fossil-fuel and nuclear power.
*??? Shortages of a few specialty materials, along with lack of
political will, loom as the greatest obstacles.


-- 
Louis Novak? lnovak1 at ford.com???(313)248-6788 
Ford Motor Co., IT Security & Strategy 
Eco-Tip: Bottled water is a waste of money and resources. 
Drink tap water from a reusable container instead.

_______________________________________________
mdlug-discuss mailing list
mdlug-discuss at mdlug.org
http://mdlug.org/mailman/listinfo/mdlug-discuss

1) It's behind a pay wall.
2) It's SciAm which, after their trashing of Bjorn Lomborg, has no credibility having given up any pretense of a claim on scientific rigor by refusing to run a response.
3) As someone else in the thread observed all the various "alternative" power sources are diffuse in nature. You'll have to cover a stupendous amount of land in order to even come close to generating sufficient electricity. You think the people who favor these ideas will favor using the land necessary to implement them?
4) Since all the mentioned sources aren't economically self-sustaining, that's why they require huge subsidies, where's the money supposed to come from to fund this scheme?

Allen








      
-------------- next part --------------
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URL: <http://mdlug.org/pipermail/mdlug-discuss/attachments/20091110/add55690/attachment-0001.html>

From akulkis00 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 10 12:30:51 2009
From: akulkis00 at gmail.com (Aaron Kulkis)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 12:30:51 -0500
Subject: [mdlug-discuss] Winds of Change
In-Reply-To: <3CBA88B60640E2469F35938BCD5EBA4C062FEC5C@na1ecm24.ecc2.ford.com>
References: <3CBA88B60640E2469F35938BCD5EBA4C062FEC5C@na1ecm24.ecc2.ford.com>
Message-ID: <4AF9A34B.4040305@gmail.com>

Novak, Louis (L.M.) wrote:
> "When the winds of change blow, some people build walls and others build
> windmills." - Chinese proverb 
> 
> 
> http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=a-path-to-sustainable-e
> nergy-by-2030 
> 
> A Plan to Power 100 Percent of the Planet with Renewables
> 
> Key Concepts
> 
> *	Supplies of wind and solar energy on accessible land dwarf the
> energy consumed by people around the globe.
> *	The authors' plan calls for 3.8 million large wind turbines,
> 90,000 solar plants, and numerous geothermal, tidal and rooftop
> photovoltaic installations worldwide.
> *	The cost of generating and transmitting power would be less than
> the projected cost per kilowatt-hour for fossil-fuel and nuclear power.
> *	Shortages of a few specialty materials, along with lack of
> political will, loom as the greatest obstacles.
> 
> 

 I used to be a subscriber to Scientific American.  I started
reading it in the late 70's.

I quit reading it when it became clear that changes in the
editorial staff had caused political causes and spin to
take precedence over science.

Yes, there is LOTS of energy, but anyone with an even
basic understanding of thermodynamics will tell you that
some forms of energy are less recoverable than others,
even assuming loss-less conversion.

The above list is political, not scientific.


