From peter at petertheplumber.net  Sat Apr  7 09:40:32 2007
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2007 09:40:32 -0400
Subject: [mdlug-discuss] [mdlug] GPS suggestions
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33CD1@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33CD1@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <1175953232.4572.71.camel@plumber.site>

On Thu, 2007-04-05 at 14:20 -0400, Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>  Our ten-year wedding anniversary is coming up in May, and we have a good
> relationship. I get gadgets and she gets jewelry. :->
> 

Ray,
	Congratulations and best wishes on your anniversary!

Best Regards,

-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From eaglecoach at wwnet.com  Wed Apr 25 21:38:19 2007
From: eaglecoach at wwnet.com (Robert Meier)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 21:38:19 -0400
Subject: [mdlug-discuss] [POLITICS] Articles of Impeachment
Message-ID: <200704260138.l3Q1cJuh029173@freehold.wwnet.com>

"Resolved, That Richard B. Cheney, Vice President of the United States,
 is impeached for high crimes and misdemeanors,
 and that the following articles of impeachment
 be exhibited to the United States Senate: 

 Articles of impeachment exhibited by the House of Representatives
 of the United States of America in the name of itself
 and of the people of the United States of America,
 against Richard B. Cheney,
 Vice President of the United States of America,
 in maintenance and support of its impeachment against him
 for high crimes and misdemeanors."
   -- http://kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/int3.pdf

Reporting,
-- 
Dr. Robert J. Meier

I was made aware of the above by the British Broadcasting Company.


From eaglecoach at wwnet.com  Fri Apr 27 09:19:00 2007
From: eaglecoach at wwnet.com (Robert Meier)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 09:19:00 -0400
Subject: [mdlug-discuss] MDLUG usage reminder
Message-ID: <4631F844.mail8LU11G0B4@freehold.wwnet.com>

This is the monthly reminder of
     mdlug List Guidelines.
Please send comments to eaglecoach at wwnet.com
Meetings are monthly (http://www.mdlug.org/meetings/meetings.html).

*Courtesy:*
Do unto others what you would have them do unto you in their place.

See /Emily Postnews/ (http://www.templetons.com/brad/emily.html) and
  /Netiquette Guidelines/ (http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html) for details.

If you find something objectionable or off-topic, please send a courteous
  note offlist to the author (and/or postmaster at mdlug.org) rather than list.
  (The rule is simple, do not be easily annoyed or annoying.)

Please post messages in plain text (rather than html or rich text).
  See http://expita.com/nomime.html for instructions for your browser.

Please remove References: field when starting a new subject.

Please trim your replies so that you only quote the parts you are are
  replying to, rather than the entire original message , and
  prefix with '>'. (Most mail clients do this part automatically.)

Please do not cross-post, and if you feel you must, please direct
  discussion to one list with a reply-to; field

*Lists:*
 mdlug-admin    mdlug administration

 mdlug-newbie   questions/answers with explanation of concepts
                assume the questioner was unaware of the
                man/info/... pages
                initial configuration of ???

 mdlug          ANNOUNCE: announcements only, no discussion

 mdlug          questions/answers using jargon
                assume the questioner has read the man/info/... pages
                technical (e.g. howto, perl scripts)

 mdlug-discuss  politics
                Microsoft-bashing
                my disto can beat up your distro, and other flames
                anything else

*Filtering and Security*
If you lack time or interest to follow some of the topics, ask
 mdlug-newbie for suggestions on filtering mail automatically.

We welcome the many who listen silently, and invite them to post when
 they wish to contribute either questions or answers.

We strip the reply to addresses from the headers of messages before putting
 them in the archives.

Likewise, our archiving software quashes email addresses in the body of
 messages, to make them difficult for spammers to harvest. However they
 will still be human readable so you might want to consider this before
 posting personal email addresses.

Have fun!


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Mon Apr 30 10:06:05 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:06:05 -0400
Subject: [mdlug-discuss] [mdlug] "realism" (was: Transfer Calculator)
In-Reply-To: <46321651.4030201@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33D3E@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>


> From: Aaron Kulkis

> It reminds me of two guys I once overheard debating what
> they considered to be the finer points of some Dungeons
> & Dragons house-rule... on the grounds of "realism".

 I was never into D&D, but I don't find this to be the oxymoron that you do.
Suspension of disbelief is important in storytelling of all kinds. To
paraphrase Einstein, "Things should be as realistic as possible, but no more."
The best science fiction assumes one "impossible" thing and works out the
logical implications from there. When done right, you get things like waterbeds,
waldos, spacesuits, and so forth (all first seen in science fiction).

 Perhaps I'm more sensitive to this because my own disbelief is rather heavy
and requires a fair amount of work to suspend it. See, e.g., here:

 http://ingles.homeunix.org/rants/stupids.html#badsci

 But yes, worrying about realism even in fantastic scenarios is not ipso
facto silly. For an example of an ostensibly ridiculous premise that is
simply assumed, then has the implications worked out with a fair attention to
'realism' and plausibility, see here:

 http://1632.org/

 "In April of the year 2000, a six-mile sphere centered on Grantville, West
Virginia was displaced in space and time to Germany and May, 1631. The
inhabitants of Grantville decided to start the American revolution early;
the nobility of Europe were not amused."

 Particularly here:

 http://1632.org/1632tech/deadhorse.html

 For example, in the stories, while some things were able to be kept
functioning, cell phones were not on that list. One cell tower did come back
in time, but the network it connected to didn't, and no cell phone techs were
in the town at the time of the event, and no one knew the passwords for the
system that was there anyway.

 They couldn't even make a serviceable phone network outside of the town
proper. Telegraph, on the other hand...

 See what I mean? One impossible thing, but then the rest follows more-or-less
logically. That's "realism" in a fantasy/sci-fi situation.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                                      (313) 227-2317

 "...this resolution establishes, in effect, a date certain for a vote on the
 commitment of United States forces to Somalia... I think we all realize that
 we have drifted from the use of force to secure humanitarian relief to an
 open-ended effort at peace enforcement and nation building... the orderly way
 to stop it is for the President to present a plan for shaping U.S. withdrawal,
 set a date for that plan, and have the congress of the United States either
 endorse or reject such a proposal." - Senator John McCain, September 9, 1993

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. 


From radkins at impelind.com  Mon Apr 30 10:58:28 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:58:28 -0400
Subject: [mdlug-discuss] [mdlug] "realism"
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33D3E@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33D3E@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <46360414.2050600@impelind.com>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>> From: Aaron Kulkis
>>     
>
>   
>> It reminds me of two guys I once overheard debating what
>> they considered to be the finer points of some Dungeons
>> & Dragons house-rule... on the grounds of "realism".
>>     
>
>  I was never into D&D, but I don't find this to be the oxymoron that you do.
> Suspension of disbelief is important in storytelling of all kinds. To
> paraphrase Einstein, "Things should be as realistic as possible, but no more."
> The best science fiction assumes one "impossible" thing and works out the
> logical implications from there. When done right, you get things like waterbeds,
> waldos, spacesuits, and so forth (all first seen in science fiction).
>   
    As an avid gamer and one who has run many campaigns within his own 
creation, I certainly agree with Raymond on this. There is a strict 
requirement of verisimilitude when crafting a story, even if there are 
elements and concepts that are wholly unrealistic. They need to fit 
together and "feed" each other in a fashion one would expect, with as 
little extraneous explanation as possible to be considered a "realistic" 
setting.

    Regards,
    Rob


From peter at petertheplumber.net  Sat Apr  7 09:40:32 2007
From: peter at petertheplumber.net (Peter Bart)
Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2007 09:40:32 -0400
Subject: [mdlug-discuss] [mdlug] GPS suggestions
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33CD1@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33CD1@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <1175953232.4572.71.camel@plumber.site>

On Thu, 2007-04-05 at 14:20 -0400, Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>  Our ten-year wedding anniversary is coming up in May, and we have a good
> relationship. I get gadgets and she gets jewelry. :->
> 

Ray,
	Congratulations and best wishes on your anniversary!

Best Regards,

-- 
Peter Bart <peter at petertheplumber.net>
http://petertheplumber.net



From eaglecoach at wwnet.com  Wed Apr 25 21:38:19 2007
From: eaglecoach at wwnet.com (Robert Meier)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 21:38:19 -0400
Subject: [mdlug-discuss] [POLITICS] Articles of Impeachment
Message-ID: <200704260138.l3Q1cJuh029173@freehold.wwnet.com>

"Resolved, That Richard B. Cheney, Vice President of the United States,
 is impeached for high crimes and misdemeanors,
 and that the following articles of impeachment
 be exhibited to the United States Senate: 

 Articles of impeachment exhibited by the House of Representatives
 of the United States of America in the name of itself
 and of the people of the United States of America,
 against Richard B. Cheney,
 Vice President of the United States of America,
 in maintenance and support of its impeachment against him
 for high crimes and misdemeanors."
   -- http://kucinich.house.gov/UploadedFiles/int3.pdf

Reporting,
-- 
Dr. Robert J. Meier

I was made aware of the above by the British Broadcasting Company.


From eaglecoach at wwnet.com  Fri Apr 27 09:19:00 2007
From: eaglecoach at wwnet.com (Robert Meier)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 09:19:00 -0400
Subject: [mdlug-discuss] MDLUG usage reminder
Message-ID: <4631F844.mail8LU11G0B4@freehold.wwnet.com>

This is the monthly reminder of
     mdlug List Guidelines.
Please send comments to eaglecoach at wwnet.com
Meetings are monthly (http://www.mdlug.org/meetings/meetings.html).

*Courtesy:*
Do unto others what you would have them do unto you in their place.

See /Emily Postnews/ (http://www.templetons.com/brad/emily.html) and
  /Netiquette Guidelines/ (http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html) for details.

If you find something objectionable or off-topic, please send a courteous
  note offlist to the author (and/or postmaster at mdlug.org) rather than list.
  (The rule is simple, do not be easily annoyed or annoying.)

Please post messages in plain text (rather than html or rich text).
  See http://expita.com/nomime.html for instructions for your browser.

Please remove References: field when starting a new subject.

Please trim your replies so that you only quote the parts you are are
  replying to, rather than the entire original message , and
  prefix with '>'. (Most mail clients do this part automatically.)

Please do not cross-post, and if you feel you must, please direct
  discussion to one list with a reply-to; field

*Lists:*
 mdlug-admin    mdlug administration

 mdlug-newbie   questions/answers with explanation of concepts
                assume the questioner was unaware of the
                man/info/... pages
                initial configuration of ???

 mdlug          ANNOUNCE: announcements only, no discussion

 mdlug          questions/answers using jargon
                assume the questioner has read the man/info/... pages
                technical (e.g. howto, perl scripts)

 mdlug-discuss  politics
                Microsoft-bashing
                my disto can beat up your distro, and other flames
                anything else

*Filtering and Security*
If you lack time or interest to follow some of the topics, ask
 mdlug-newbie for suggestions on filtering mail automatically.

We welcome the many who listen silently, and invite them to post when
 they wish to contribute either questions or answers.

We strip the reply to addresses from the headers of messages before putting
 them in the archives.

Likewise, our archiving software quashes email addresses in the body of
 messages, to make them difficult for spammers to harvest. However they
 will still be human readable so you might want to consider this before
 posting personal email addresses.

Have fun!


From Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com  Mon Apr 30 10:06:05 2007
From: Raymond.Ingles at compuware.com (Ingles, Raymond)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:06:05 -0400
Subject: [mdlug-discuss] [mdlug] "realism" (was: Transfer Calculator)
In-Reply-To: <46321651.4030201@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33D3E@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>


> From: Aaron Kulkis

> It reminds me of two guys I once overheard debating what
> they considered to be the finer points of some Dungeons
> & Dragons house-rule... on the grounds of "realism".

 I was never into D&D, but I don't find this to be the oxymoron that you do.
Suspension of disbelief is important in storytelling of all kinds. To
paraphrase Einstein, "Things should be as realistic as possible, but no more."
The best science fiction assumes one "impossible" thing and works out the
logical implications from there. When done right, you get things like waterbeds,
waldos, spacesuits, and so forth (all first seen in science fiction).

 Perhaps I'm more sensitive to this because my own disbelief is rather heavy
and requires a fair amount of work to suspend it. See, e.g., here:

 http://ingles.homeunix.org/rants/stupids.html#badsci

 But yes, worrying about realism even in fantastic scenarios is not ipso
facto silly. For an example of an ostensibly ridiculous premise that is
simply assumed, then has the implications worked out with a fair attention to
'realism' and plausibility, see here:

 http://1632.org/

 "In April of the year 2000, a six-mile sphere centered on Grantville, West
Virginia was displaced in space and time to Germany and May, 1631. The
inhabitants of Grantville decided to start the American revolution early;
the nobility of Europe were not amused."

 Particularly here:

 http://1632.org/1632tech/deadhorse.html

 For example, in the stories, while some things were able to be kept
functioning, cell phones were not on that list. One cell tower did come back
in time, but the network it connected to didn't, and no cell phone techs were
in the town at the time of the event, and no one knew the passwords for the
system that was there anyway.

 They couldn't even make a serviceable phone network outside of the town
proper. Telegraph, on the other hand...

 See what I mean? One impossible thing, but then the rest follows more-or-less
logically. That's "realism" in a fantasy/sci-fi situation.

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles                                                      (313) 227-2317

 "...this resolution establishes, in effect, a date certain for a vote on the
 commitment of United States forces to Somalia... I think we all realize that
 we have drifted from the use of force to secure humanitarian relief to an
 open-ended effort at peace enforcement and nation building... the orderly way
 to stop it is for the President to present a plan for shaping U.S. withdrawal,
 set a date for that plan, and have the congress of the United States either
 endorse or reject such a proposal." - Senator John McCain, September 9, 1993

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. 


From radkins at impelind.com  Mon Apr 30 10:58:28 2007
From: radkins at impelind.com (Robert Adkins)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:58:28 -0400
Subject: [mdlug-discuss] [mdlug] "realism"
In-Reply-To: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33D3E@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
References: <41C33488FEC67C43BC564F5F086C21FF03A33D3E@nasa-dtw-ex001.nasa.cpwr.corp>
Message-ID: <46360414.2050600@impelind.com>

Ingles, Raymond wrote:
>> From: Aaron Kulkis
>>     
>
>   
>> It reminds me of two guys I once overheard debating what
>> they considered to be the finer points of some Dungeons
>> & Dragons house-rule... on the grounds of "realism".
>>     
>
>  I was never into D&D, but I don't find this to be the oxymoron that you do.
> Suspension of disbelief is important in storytelling of all kinds. To
> paraphrase Einstein, "Things should be as realistic as possible, but no more."
> The best science fiction assumes one "impossible" thing and works out the
> logical implications from there. When done right, you get things like waterbeds,
> waldos, spacesuits, and so forth (all first seen in science fiction).
>   
    As an avid gamer and one who has run many campaigns within his own 
creation, I certainly agree with Raymond on this. There is a strict 
requirement of verisimilitude when crafting a story, even if there are 
elements and concepts that are wholly unrealistic. They need to fit 
together and "feed" each other in a fashion one would expect, with as 
little extraneous explanation as possible to be considered a "realistic" 
setting.

    Regards,
    Rob


